# The retriever training career



## Clebba (Jan 10, 2014)

I've been considering changing careers for some time now and was wondering, how much does an average retriever/gun dog trainer make? I see all these pro's at the hunt tests with these big rigs and nice trucks after twenty years in the business. I've been at my career for 19 years and don't have half the nice things. Not to mention I hate my current career. 

Another question, what does it take to become a pro trainer? Apprenticeship? School? 
And is mid 40's too old to start? (No, I am not having a mid life crisis)


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

What you make depends on how many dogs you have. Expect a few years of lean times until your name gets established. Apprenticing is probably the best route for you. Being willing to learn from anyone and having an open mind will also help. If you've no experience in the field at all you'll have a longer road ahead of you until you learn how to train a variety of dogs. I think you also have to have some built in knack for it as well. It's not just as easy as watching some videos and training one dog. They're all different and you need to know how to address a number of different temperments and problems. Once you've got your own place and clients going you can expect long hours, no days off, and all the wonderful headaches of owning your own business. Fun stuff like taxes, insurance, employees, payroll, clients that don't pay, clients that think they are the only client you have, etc.

Happiness should not be judged by having nice things. Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. Good luck!


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Clebba said:


> .... I see all these pro's at the hunt tests with these big rigs and nice trucks...


Imagine that big 10 hole rig you will have. Now imagine 8 of the 10 filled with dog diarrhea and the dogs that pooped it, at 2 in the morning in a motel parking lot in a town you never been in and nobody at all you can ask for a water hose.

Yup... Thats a dream job for sure! 

as for what it takes. from my humble observations in the gallery cheap seats.
You can ether train dogs that win a bunch of national stuff and have a successful dog training video tape.
OR
Be able to paint a real nice logo on the door of your pick up truck.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ken Bora said:


> Imagine that big 10 hole rig you will have. Now imagine 8 of the 10 filled with dog diarrhea and the dogs that pooped it, at 2 in the morning in a motel parking lot in a town you never been in and nobody at all you can ask for a water hose.
> 
> Yup... Thats a dream job for sure!
> 
> ...


If your running a 10 hole your probably not doing that well Jim


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

If you love dog training, don't mind living with 30+ dogs, don't mind 12-14 hour days, no weekends or holidays off, no paid vacation, don't mind talking to clients all hours of the day and night, have a very understanding spouse and children old enough to not need Dad around then professional retriever training might be for you. Depending on your skill level you will probably start cleaning kennels and throwing birds for an established trainer, after 2-3 years you might move up to force fetching, in another 2-3 years you might be ready for prime time. Expect to have an investment in facilities and equipment in excess of $500,000 which might not include a dwelling. The top trainers are dong well but only after years of hard work and sacrifice, giving up any normalcy of family life and having a huge investment, at 40 you would be getting a late start. Good luck!

I have often said that training dogs for others would be the last thing I would do before starvation.


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## AAA Gundogs (Mar 17, 2016)

EdA said:


> If you love dog training, don't mind living with 30+ dogs, don't mind 12-14 hour days, no weekends or holidays off, no paid vacation, don't mind talking to clients all hours of the day and night, have a very understanding spouse and children old enough to not need Dad around then professional retriever training might be for you. Depending on your skill level you will probably start cleaning kennels and throwing birds for an established trainer, after 2-3 years you might move up to force fetching, in another 2-3 years you might be ready for prime time. Expect to have an investment in facilities and equipment in excess of $500,000 which might not include a dwelling. The top trainers are dong well but only after years of hard work and sacrifice, giving up any normalcy of family life and having a huge investment, at 40 you would be getting a late start. Good luck!
> 
> I have often said that training dogs for others would be the last thing I would do before starvation.


As a teen, I was a fly fishing phenom. I could thread a needle on a cast. Knew how to read water and what the BIG fish were eating. I'd spend every summer trout bumming in the park, Idaho and western Montana. I caught a "once in a lifetime" fish every summer. At the end of the summer, between hs and college, an outfit offered me a summer guiding job. 

The summer after my sophomore year, I work over 60 days straight. Don't get me wrong, I loved being on the water but, in contrast to the 1st year, I was booked with a much more experienced and seasoned clientele. It seemed everyone booked with me wanted to catch a troutzilla. The every day pressure to try to produce someone's fish of a lifetime burned me out. The next summer I ended up doing a study abroad program.

Anyway, to get to my point, once you get 16 or 20 good dogs and the proper grounds that is when the real pressure begins. It is the pressure to produce wins and fc for your clients. A guy that's dumped $3k on a pup, $10k on training, and is paying $1200 a month to keep it on the truck and competing: doesn't want excuses. They've donen"their part" so do your part and deliver results.

I'm glad that I'm just an am that sells the dogs that don't have the good to compete in all age.

Believe me that's been bizarre enough for me. Like when the guy called me 2 months after buying an incredible wild bird dog (just not an aa dog) to complain that the dog was pointing from too far away and they'd have to search too much to find the bird while his brother's dog would get to within a few feet.

I bought the dog back and sold him to my pro's client.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

My opinion on the subject is why take something you love and make it work. Of course you could argue that if your work is something you love you'll never have to work. My experience has been more of the first. 

When it comes to the hobbies I enjoy...hunting, camping, fishing and dog training I'd rather just keep them hobbies. It is easy to do that though when enjoy your current job and it affords you the time to have hobbies. My plan is to retire early and have 3-4 dogs I train and run and travel with my wife.


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## Rnd (Jan 21, 2012)

" The best way to ruin a good hobby, is to make it a career " Unknown


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## Clebba (Jan 10, 2014)

Ok, y'all still haven't scared me off yet. So roughly how much does an assistant/apprentice make? Are we talking minimum wage? Approximate average yearly salary would be good. If y'all want to PM that answer to me to avoid underpaid workers complaining, feel free.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Clebba said:


> Ok, y'all still haven't scared me off yet. So roughly how much does an assistant/apprentice make? Are we talking minimum wage? Approximate average yearly salary would be good. If y'all want to PM that answer to me to avoid underpaid workers complaining, feel free.


If you really want to see what the job entails before you throw your hat in the ring, Go do an "internship" with a circuit pro for two weeks, you will see it goes a whole lot further than just throwing birds and feeding dogs..

and like many other sub contractor jobs, the pay is based on who you work for and how successful their "practice" is..many pros would like an assistant but can't afford to pay them much so good help is hard to find and harder to keep before the assistant thinks they can hang up their own shingle and start a business...The competition for clients is fierce,dirty and there are no rules

One other thing you might want to consider when choosing a pro to apprentice under, is find out who else that pro might have trained..A couple of pros have turned out some very good apprentices who went on and had nice careers of their own...and then there are others who might have been able to train a dog but were unwilling or unable to teach/mentor their craft to someone else


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Clebba said:


> Another question, what does it take to become a pro trainer? Apprenticeship? School?


Basically, all you need to have done is train one dog to a hunt test title- and that qualifies one to hang up their shingle......  
Some people don't even do that- trained one dog to retrieve a few ducks and that makes them qualified! Truthfully, the person who suggested, working for a pro for awhile, is spot on-. That way you can see whats all entailed with it. Having been a professional trainer for over 20 years, I can say one thing- its something in your heart, not something you do to earn the money. Its hard work, long days, and dealing with dogs that you would never own yourself,and being under pressure to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You truly have to love dogs, love being with dogs and love teaching dogs; to make it a long term career. Seriously.... and with that, I will say that I do love what I do. I can't imagine doing anything else-ever- but its not an easy way to make a living.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Clebba said:


> Ok, y'all still haven't scared me off yet. So roughly how much does an assistant/apprentice make? Are we talking minimum wage? Approximate average yearly salary would be good. If y'all want to PM that answer to me to avoid underpaid workers complaining, feel free.


It depends on who you're working for. Only figure I've heard would be in the low 20k range maybe.


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## Hitch (Aug 23, 2015)

I'm looking for a bird boy as my current one is unreliable. I pay 10 dollars a day!


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

Get one Started or Junior hunt test ribbon, hang out a shingle, charge less than the legit pros with experience and street cred from years of upper level success and you are on your way.
Your fun hobby will turn into a job before long and if you stick with it as a profession won't be much fun.
MP


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

What Mike said. Why on earth would you want to turn your hobby into a dern job? As far as what does it take to get into business------- one quick trip to Kinkos has done it for about 90 percent of the "pros" out there.

Lots of easier ways to starve to death regards

Bubba


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## ateupwithquack (Feb 24, 2012)

Bubba said:


> What Mike said. Why on earth would you want to turn your hobby into a dern job? As far as what does it take to get into business------- one quick trip to Kinkos has done it for about 90 percent of the "pros" out there.
> 
> Lots of easier ways to starve to death regards
> 
> Bubba


Kinkos not needed, a fancy website will catch most wanting a dog trained. At least it does down here in the South.


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

The only question I hear from the op is "How much do I make"? I can only speak from a client's perspective, but from that I would want to hear that you are passionate about dogs and that you get a lot of satisfaction in being able to read individual dogs and see what makes them tick. A pro needs good communication skills. A client needs honest feedback-the good, the bad and the ugly. If the dog isn't cutting it or if it's a dog you just don't click with is it still filling a hole, so you can collect a check every month? Do you take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back if need be or does every dog have to fit your schedule? Do you care about a dog's attitude or is slinking off the line ok with you as long as he gets the job done? Do you encourage the client to train with you and see the dog's progress? Do your dogs like working for you? It goes on and on. The A list clients who have A list pros are fortunate enough to send their dogs off with confidence. The majority of owners who hire pros are taking a gamble that you are who you say are and have the dog's best interest at heart and take pride in giving that dog the foundation it needs to succeed.

M


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## Nick Toti (Feb 3, 2011)

Clebba said:


> I've been considering changing careers for some time now and was wondering, how much does an average retriever/gun dog trainer make? I see all these pro's at the hunt tests with these big rigs and nice trucks after twenty years in the business. I've been at my career for 19 years and don't have half the nice things. Not to mention I hate my current career.
> 
> Another question, what does it take to become a pro trainer? Apprenticeship? School?
> And is mid 40's too old to start? (No, I am not having a mid life crisis)


Those shiny trucks and trailers are tools not toys, and they aren't so fun to own when you have to wash the dog feces out of it at 9pm Sunday night, and then go air and feed 20 dogs after a weekend of HT or FT. If you want to get into it for the nice things and money you will be EXTREMELY disappointed. I have 2 friends who work for FT pros. IT IS A GRIND...to put it very nicely.


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## Jerry Running (Feb 16, 2009)

Having lurked on this forum for a long time I think I finally have something to add . A young fellow with his first real retriever puppy was brought to our group to train he was introduced as someone who would like to become a pro, and was currently a concrete worker. I thought for a moment and gave him my advice (If I had to choose between being a concrete worker or a dog trainer I would become a plumber, ) kinda got a strange look so I contiued ( That way you could afford to train and run dogs and someday retire and still train and run dogs) Seemed to make sense to this recently retired plumber . LOL


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Welcome to RTF Jerry. A plumber named Running. Gosh the catchy slogans that come to mind!! Enjoy your retirement and dogs.


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## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

Rnd said:


> " The best way to ruin a good hobby, is to make it a career " Unknown


This!!
I have seen MANY young girls at horse barns in my career, and with my wife's horse showing, and many of them want to be horse veterinarians. I always tell them if you do that, then you will stop riding. Seriously, if you spend 10-12 hours a days laboring with these beasts (and NONE of them are as well behaved as they should be), then are you going to come home and go to your barn and mess with more horses??? They give me harsh looks but it makes them think of the reality of what life around them all day can be like. 

Never, make a hobby a career.

Personally, I train for the tight connection it gives me with MY dog, and I want a well trained hunting companion. Hunting is the bottom line for me, competitions are great and fun, but for me its all about the fall flight. Having 15-30 dogs would be exhausting to create anything close to a bond like that. However, working for a top level trainer will help you understand how it all works and maybe put it in perspective.

If I could not practice anymore and still needed to work, it would not be a dog trainer. I have been training dogs to Master level since 1995, so I have some idea what it takes to train one dog at a time. But no idea how to do a kennel full.

Hope you find what you are looking for.


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## Crihfield (May 6, 2009)

Bird boy = Minimum Wage - $10
Assistant Trainer = ($20,000-$30,000 base) Some trainers will pay them a bonus for the dogs they pass at competitions. Some clients leave them tips. (work 7 days a week and a lot more than 40 hours)
Owner/Trainer=???? I don't know but I do know that he starts out early washing kennels, airing dogs, loading the dog truck. Heads to the field and trains several hours. Might have to make a trip to the vet. Hits a gas station up to fuel up before the next day. Come back to the kennels and work younger dogs in the yard. Wash kennels. Feed the hounds. Get items ready to train the next day, Wash truck/trailer. Handle phone calls or emails. Go air dogs again and possibly wash down the kennels. 7 days a week. Doesn't matter if it's Thanksgiving dinner, you've got dogs to take care of. Christmas morning, you've got dogs to take care of. Everyone is going out of town for the weekend to a concert, anniversary, to the lake house EXCEPT YOU! You've got work to do. Not including billing clients, running test on the weekends and paying bills. You can make a lot more money by working a lot less time in a different career. Not trying to discourage you. People think it's so easy but they don't realize that you work constantly 7 days a week. Doesn't matter if a pipe bust in the middle of the night, you got to fix it. Got to keep the truck and trailer maintained. Don't want a blowout on the interstate with 12-18 dogs in a trailer. They make a lot of money but spend a lot of money keeping everything going. If you start out with a billion, you might end up a millionaire in a few years. Good luck to you. Retire and find a pro to work under and let him have the overhead.


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

like the old saying - if you have to ask , you can't afford it . While that saying is for purchasing something like a sports car , it applies here IMO . As you seek a career change , living expenses must be taken care of. Go to your local Chamber of Commerce . Rule of thumb starting your own business is 6 months living expenses in the bank . Business costs are another bank account . As you state no experience in your desired field of dog training , you gonna be paying some dues. So you have money for chain link and a truck and chassis mount and access to land and tech water ..Every empty hole is lost revenue . In my business we use what is called an operations ratio... Slim profit margin means for every dollar we take in , we spend 98 cents. 2 cents on the dollar . so if you charge $1000 per dog per month , you have $980 in overhead ...$20 per dog . 10 hole box , $200 per month profit . Break it down to a higher profit margin , lets say $200 in the black per dog...thats $2000 per month , 24K per year ..Good luck regards....


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

> so if you charge $1000 per dog per month , you have $980 in overhead ...$20 per dog . 10 hole box , $200 per month profit .


That's very unrealistic, and if in your own business and you are making a 2% profit you may want to rethink your business plan.. 

A dog pro is a tough life but I think a good living can be made if you like working 7 days a week 12 hours a day, every day..


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

Todd Caswell said:


> That's very unrealistic, and if in your own business and you are making a 2% profit you may want to rethink your business plan..
> 
> A dog pro is a tough life but I think a good living can be made if you like working 7 days a week 12 hours a day, every day..[/QUOT
> 
> he has no business plan. I simply offered one scenario .. And the 2% profit in some industries is considered OK....on a billion in revenue I might add !!


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

John Kelder said:


> Todd Caswell said:
> 
> 
> > That's very unrealistic, and if in your own business and you are making a 2% profit you may want to rethink your business plan..
> ...


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

Todd Caswell said:


> John Kelder said:
> 
> 
> > I agree but he wasn't asking about opening a Walmart chain he was asking about what dog trainers make. Good dog trainers aren't only good dog trainers but good business people as well , still trying to figure out your 2% analogy
> ...


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## Olaf (Feb 13, 2016)

Clebba said:


> I've been considering changing careers for some time now and was wondering, how much does an average retriever/gun dog trainer make? I see all these pro's at the hunt tests with these big rigs and nice trucks after twenty years in the business. I've been at my career for 19 years and don't have half the nice things. Not to mention I hate my current career.
> 
> Another question, what does it take to become a pro trainer? Apprenticeship? School?
> And is mid 40's too old to start? (No, I am not having a mid life crisis)


I don't think it's ever too late to do something you're passionate about. I do not know anyone there but maybe you could get in touch with someone in the Professional Retriever Trainers Association and see if they can steer you in the right direction to talk to a member. 

http://www.prta.net/PRTA/Home.html


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

Here's my experience. As my military career was winding down, I decided that I was interested in training retrievers professionally. I had spent 15 years or so as a serious HT amateur and had property in a good location that could be used to build training facilities. As I got closer to retirement, I began to have second thoughts about making a significant investment in facilities, etc. for a career that I wasn't absolutely positive was going to work for me.
Soon after, I got an opportunity to go to work for another pro. The money was good (relative to the market), it was a 5-day-a-week job in a beautiful location, the facilities and equipment were top-notch and I had a great level of autonomy with my string of dogs.
Here's what I learned:

1. I love training my dogs and I love helping others train their dogs. I don't love training 16-24 dogs of varying backgrounds and abilities every day. Some dogs and some clients are a pleasure to work with. Some...not so much. In general, the worse the dog, the higher the client expectations. Spending every day trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shtuff will wear on you.

2. Training a full string of dogs is a physical job. I jumped into it in my mid 40's. Having spent a career in the military, I was in relatively good shape, but the day-to-day effort took it's toll. By the end of each week, something was always aching. I began to wonder how I would hold up at 55 or 60 doing a job like that.

3. Although the pro I worked for treated me with respect, paid me well and provided good equipment, I discovered that we had some fundamental differences in philosophy. Clients would watch me run my dogs and then watch him run his dogs and ask some very uncomfortable questions. I'm not the kind to take a man's money and then bad-mouth his training, so I found myself in a very tough situation. It was very difficult to be loyal to the boss and honest with the clients, so I had to take my leave. When you go to work for a pro, you have to buy in to the whole program. As a wise man once said, "the only thing you can get two dog pros to agree on is that a third guy is doing it wrong".

4. I was in a unique situation financially. I had a military pension coming in, I was financially healthy and my kids were grown and out of the house. That allowed me to take a chance on a career without worrying about the effect on kids, etc. I would have never done it had kids been involved or if I didn't have the financial safety net. 

5. By the time I stopped training professionally and went back to working a "real job", I was burned out on dog training. I had a nice young dog that I just couldn't muster up the desire to do much with, so I sold him. I spent a year or so completely out of the dog stuff and wondered if I would ever get back into it. But last fall I got a new pup and have started to train again. I'm taking it slowly and focusing on keeping it very relaxed and fun. So far, I'm enjoying getting back into it. I'm keeping the expectations low and just seeing where it takes us. It's nice to find the "fun" in dog training again.

6. I'm so thankful that I did it. I'm also thankful that I'm not still doing it. Your mileage may vary.


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## Waterdogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Most trainers have a similar story and it all starts out with low pay and lots of work. I have worked with great trainers over my career and some were amazing at teaching. Some I learned more about life than dogs. Over all the winter trips and training in various places I have met and seen people that have changed me and I don't think I would have ever experienced that with a 9-5 job. I love my office and the ducks, Geese, quail and other creatures I share it with. I have come to the conclusion I am only going around this world once and I want to spend as much as I can not bound by the shackles of concrete and a office. Sometimes going to the deep end of the ocean is the only way to truly know what you really can do. Start swimming!


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I have been following this thread and what Waterdogs says is the best response I have seen so far. And it seems to fall in line with his/her sig line too. 

If you've got enough funds to support yourself for a time, I say why not give it a shot? If you are good at what you do now (even though you dislike it) and don't burn any bridges as you leave, then all the more reason to give training as a pro/assistant a try....

Going to one's grave with regrets - 'wishing I had tried 'xyz' - should not occur.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

I have really been wanting to reply to this thread but my internet was down for 6 days and have been pretty busy too. I was you 15 years ago.
Dog training is not a job it's a life style. Some of what has been posted here is very true. Some is slightly exaggerated, some very much exaggerated but bottom line is that it is what you make of it. I have no desire to go big with 25 or 30 dogs or more plus assistants, equipment and all the stuff that goes with it. To me that just gets way to impersonal (is that a word?). A big part of my success is a personal relationship with the dogs.
My personal debt is low so I don't need a huge income. I try and keep client dogs to 10 or less. I just turned 60 and am gearing down for retirement. Don't have much saved for retirement so plan to train a few select dogs as long as I can stand up. I started taking client dogs part time and working too about 8 years ago and went full time 2 1/2 years ago. I drove cement trucks for almost 30 years, was married for 27. Both the concrete and the wife are gone now and I couldn't be happier. Wife blames it on the dogs and we are still friends but if she cant support me and what makes me happy then oh well. I tried unsuccessfully to make her happy for 27 years . That's a long story that nobody wants or needs to hear. Since making the leap I am happier and making more money than I ever did working.
I got my first lab when I was 15. Taught her a little obedience and some stupid stuff and the dog was so smart she made me think I was a pretty good dog trainer. I wanted to be a dog trainer ever since but life got in the way and I really didn't even know you could make a living out of dog training. Between 15 and 42 I hunted my dogs but they were not very well trained. I had to throw rocks to get the dog to birds they didn't see and after awhile I started noticing that I really didn't need a rock cuz the dog was going in the direction of my arm movement. At the time I actually thought I had invented handling. Found out later other people knew all about this.
I am mostly self taught. I got a new puppy in 1998 saw my first hunt test about 10 months later and the hook was set. My dogs and I have come a long way since then. Some have said why ruin a good hobby by making it work. Well to me bottom line is enjoying what you do so why not make a living doing what you enjoy. Yes at times, many times, dogs can be very frustrating but to me it's worth it. The most frustrating part to me has been working with poorly bred dogs that have no talent and no brains. Owners bought them out of the news paper for $300 not knowing any better. A lot of people will spend $2000 on a shot gun but think they only need to spend $200 on a dog. I am getting to the point now where I can pick and choose what I want to work with and look forward to the day I only train 4 to 6 well bed dogs for long term clients I would nooooo waaay ever go back to a regular job making money for someone else. I love the dogs and cant imagine life without them which is why I will be training and running trials as long as I can stand up maybe even longer. It is in my blood, if I had known about field trials and real dog training I could have saved myself 30 years trying to live the American dream and going about it totally the wrong way. I think to be a dog trainer you have to be passionate about it and you need to have some dog sense built into to you. I saw it in myself at 15, it just took me 37 years to do something about it. I think people and dogs both are born with certain traits and talents for certain things and if those things are nurtured from the beginning it leads to a happy life.
I have actually done pretty well and am proud of my accomplishments. I don't advertise or look for work I have people call and say they have hunted with so and so's dog and they want a dog like that too. Only wish some of them would come to me before actually purchasing a dog. Training gun dogs is actually the easy part and the client is very easy to please because they really don't know what a good dog is but my real passion is field trials. A good trial bred dog is such a joy to train and handle and I get great satisfaction when I get results. I have done well in trials with what I have had to work with and can see goods things in the future when I can cut my kennel down to a few select dogs that have the breeding to be great.
Well that's pretty much my life story. As I said dog training is not a job it's a life style. It suits me just fine because I have no life or anything I'd rather be doing just wish I hadn't taken 37 years to figure it out. If this is what you want to do then go for it but don't do it just because it appears from the outside that some trainer at a hunt test is doing very well for himself or that it is just a job change. You better really like it and want to do it for reasons other than money.


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## Clebba (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the input. Both the encouraging and disheartening words of advice are well appreciated. Yeah, I came off as only concerned about the money. But that was just the one answer I couldn't get. 
It's funny, all my life I've heard the saying "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." I also grew up listening to the music of Harry Chapin. He had a song, "Mr. Tanner", that told the story of a cleaner who tried making a career of his passion for singing and it all went badly. "Music was his life it was not his livelihood..." 
So yeah, I'd like to make a living in this profession, but I don't want to lose the passion for doing it. I'll have to put some serious thought into it all.
But please keep the advice and personal / professional experiences coming. If nothing else, it might open up some other peoples' eyes as to why it cost so much to have a dog trained and just how much trouble trainers actually go through.


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## Terry Britton (Jul 3, 2003)

Spend a summer throwing birds for a trainer on the weekends, and observing while running your dog a few times at the end of the day. You will learn a lot by observing, and seeing what types of dogs the trainer has to deal with and the clients expectations for not so good dogs to be awesome. A very good breeding may be like having the training program on autopilot while a dog picked out of newspaper may be a fight to do certain things for a few years until they mature. Some may just never get it. Some very good lines may have a lemon in a litter that just doesn't like ducks, or know how to swim at any speed as well, and the owner expects the trainer to make the pup like its littermates.

I was lucky enough to get to throw birds on weekends for a few trainers one year, and one really good trainer on weekends for a summer. I was trying to get through some water issues which took about 3 years with a field/show golden picked up out of a newspaper. I learned enough to find the best breeding possible, and got extremely lucky which makes training more like being a spectator to something awesome. When training clients dogs, you won't get to pick which dogs you get to train until you have a great reputation. You also will be expected to have unrealistic goals for those newspaper dogs in unrealistic timelines for the ability or slow to mature dogs.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

HAHAHA, Terry your signature line makes me laugh. Being in construction for a lot of years I have dealt with quite a few engineers and a lot of them straight out of college. When I send a dog home I compare those dogs to those engineers telling the owners that their dog has the education but still needs to learn what it's like out in the real world. There is still a lot to learn on the street or the swamp.


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## i_willie12 (Apr 11, 2008)

Terry Britton said:


> seeing what types of dogs the trainer has to deal with and the clients expectations for not so good dogs to be awesome. A very good breeding may be like having the training program on autopilot while a dog picked out of newspaper may be a fight to do certain things for a few years until they mature. Some may just never get it. Some very good lines may have a lemon in a litter that just doesn't like ducks, or know how to swim at any speed as well, and the owner expects the trainer to make the pup like its littermates.


Terry and Steve and probably a couple others hit this on the head!!!! This is my biggest issue (6-10) dogs a year for me part time But I maybe get 1 dog a season that's a "good" dog that I don't have to fight/bet my head against wall/pray/beg to do the work! And most these clients don't get that... Labs retrieve.... they should all duck hunt right...? I cant tell you how many times ive had to explain that just because fido will chase a tennis ball in back yard doesn't mean it will do the work to be a true hunting dog MOst of the dogs I get are average joe dogs that cant take much pressure and after about 4 retrieves are done for the day, and don't get trained on back to back days But the owners of course want "a dog like their buddy has or I saw on tv..."


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Im gonna follow Nathan by saying,ANYONE CAN TRAIN A DOG! A very wise and successful pro told me this and has helped me deal with being a public trainer (teacher).But a trainer (teacher) will adjust his methods and skills to meet each dog (student) needs.This is hard in todays world of "programs"....Todays thought seems to be "grind em up and spit em out".I think remembering what that old pro said and sticking to it has worked extremely well for me in the gundog world......Gee thanks dad. Jim


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Clebba said:


> I've been considering changing careers for some time now and was wondering, how much does an average retriever/gun dog trainer make? I see all these pro's at the hunt tests with these big rigs and nice trucks after twenty years in the business. I've been at my career for 19 years and don't have half the nice things. Not to mention I hate my current career.
> 
> Another question, what does it take to become a pro trainer? Apprenticeship? School?
> And is mid 40's too old to start? (No, I am not having a mid life crisis)


BEST ADVISE EVER: Talk to Jack Morris at Stellar Retrievers and Rody Best at Best Retrievers....They are in Giddings and will (if they can) help you...Very close to you...expect to go to minimum wage, long hours, and severe sun...


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## Clebba (Jan 10, 2014)

Terry Marshall said:


> BEST ADVISE EVER: Talk to Jack Morris at Stellar Retrievers and Rody Best at Best Retrievers....They are in Giddings and will (if they can) help you...Very close to you...expect to go to minimum wage, long hours, and severe sun...


Funny...Those are the exact pros I was referring to in my original post.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Clebba said:


> Funny...Those are the exact pros I was referring to in my original post.


So why don't you BO UP and go get a job BIG BOY JOB at Jacks or Rodys....If that's what you what to do....can't help stupid...might help .Ignorant


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Terry Marshall said:


> So why don't you BO UP and go get a job BIG BOY JOB at Jacks or Rodys....If that's what you what to do....can't help stupid...might help .Ignorant




Somebody piss in your Cheerios?


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## Clebba (Jan 10, 2014)

Terry Marshall said:


> So why don't you BO UP and go get a job BIG BOY JOB at Jacks or Rodys....If that's what you what to do....can't help stupid...might help .Ignorant


Ow! Dang it....kick the left one next time please. The right one is a little sore.

I guess, I never thought about asking them. 

Sarcasm aside...yes, I have talked to them (or some of their associates) a bit. I am not ready to make a career change at this very moment (building a house and two teenage boys to raise.) But in a few years, when things slowdown and the birdies (vultures ) leave the nest...who knows.

Someone else suggested raising pups and selling started dogs. Maybe that's an option. Again whose knows? Maybe I'll try being a male gigolo. I'm just looking at options, getting info, seeing what else is out there. As I am learning, I may not want to make a living out of a hobby. (there goes that gigolo option ) .


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## Clebba (Jan 10, 2014)

Steve Shaver said:


> Somebody piss in your Cheerios?


Pissed in them?? Sounds like someone dropped a log on them.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Clebba said:


> Ow! Dang it....kick the left one next time please. The right one is a little sore.
> 
> I guess, I never thought about asking them.
> 
> ...


No you get my point....If you are looking at 2020 then call me, If I haven't died of Melanoma yet


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## Crihfield (May 6, 2009)

Rody Best is a great guy and very approachable. Just give him a call sometime. Good luck on the adventure.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Close to 20 years ago, I went to a seminar held by Mike Lardy. I was staying at the Hilltop Motel. Also at the Hilltop was Charlie Hays and a young boy, who was 16 years old at the time. His mother drove with him to the seminar and stayed at the Hilltop reading Harlequin Romance novels while the Charlie, I and her son went to the seminars. One night, Charlie invited the three of us to join him for dinner. At dinner, mom tried to dissuade the young man from his obvious desire - to become a retriever trainer. Mom wanted her son to take over the family business. It was clear that her son was committed to becoming a dog trainer. I suggested to mom that if she wanted her son to go to college, she ought to say that a college degree in business would be essential to a future dog trainer. Mom, however, wanted desperately for her son to run the family business.

A couple of years later, I saw in the Retriever Field Trial News that the young man was working as a bird boy for Rick Stawski.

A few years after that, I saw that the young man was working for Mike Lardy.

That young man? Ray Voigt.

I believe that you need to follow your dreams - as Ray did.


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## Clebba (Jan 10, 2014)

Terry Marshall said:


> No you get my point....If you are looking at 2020 then call me, If I haven't died of Melanoma yet


Glad you're a good sport. See ya this weekend, looks like we are both running dogs at junior.


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## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

It appears that if your going to be a HT pro ,you'd better have fast internet and quick computer skills.


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## i_willie12 (Apr 11, 2008)

shawninthesticks said:


> It appears that if your going to be a HT pro ,you'd better have fast internet and quick computer skills.


LIKE LIKE LIKE


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Ted Shih said:


> Close to 20 years ago, I went to a seminar held by Mike Lardy. I was staying at the Hilltop Motel. Also at the Hilltop was Charlie Hays and a young boy, who was 16 years old at the time. His mother drove with him to the seminar and stayed at the Hilltop reading Harlequin Romance novels while the Charlie, I and her son went to the seminars. One night, Charlie invited the three of us to join him for dinner. At dinner, mom tried to dissuade the young man from his obvious desire - to become a retriever trainer. Mom wanted her son to take over the family business. It was clear that her son was committed to becoming a dog trainer. I suggested to mom that if she wanted her son to go to college, she ought to say that a college degree in business would be essential to a future dog trainer. Mom, however, wanted desperately for her son to run the family business.
> 
> A couple of years later, I saw in the Retriever Field Trial News that the young man was working as a bird boy for Rick Stawski.
> 
> ...


Love this story Ted!


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Clebba said:


> Glad you're a good sport. See ya this weekend, looks like we are both running dogs at junior.


Yes please introduce yourself as I don't know your name


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