# Surgery vs. Euthanasia



## jheath01 (Mar 22, 2011)

Our 13 year old lab, was diagnosed with laryngeal paralysis by our vet about a year ago. He has been gagging/hacking off and on for probably a year; nothing severe, just every once and a while. He has never had any breathing problems until last month. His first and worst episode was when we got 20+ inches of snow and we tried to shovel out a tunnel to the potty area in the back yard before we took him out in the morning. Well, we didn't get the tunnel completely cleared all the way and he decided he would try to push through it like he always used to. He got stuck and started to gasp for air, which caused him to panic. We had to bring him inside to calm him down. He was salivating bubbles and was blue. I think it took about 20 minutes before we saw color! He recovered. Since then, I've learned to take him for VERY slow walks, but even sometimes, he struggles to get air, so we stop for a minute or two, then head on home.

Last week, we had a specialist appointment scheduled, but we didn't make it because he panicked five minutes after we left (we didn't realize he'd need a sedative for the truck ride). We had to turn around and come back home. At that point, we scheduled euthanasia for this coming weekend, but are really having second thoughts.

We talked to our vet and he commented that Jake has had a good life, we he has, but I'm struggling with this decision. Even though he's 13, he still in his mind wants to walk, run, retrieve and swim, but his Lar Par won't let him. We know he has other things against him in addition to his age: he had a cancerous tumor removed two years ago, he has bumps & lumps (fatty tumors) in various spots and his hind quarters have leaned down. We're struggling not because we'll miss him, which we will, but because he seems healthy yet. He still gets up and greets us at the door (before his 11 year old brother) and in the morning. He still begs for food at every meal time (we're letting him do it now), and he still loves to go outside and go for walks, and he controls his bowels, etc.

I just re-scheduled the specialist appointment. I feel like I need to know all the facts, to see if he is a good candidate for surgery.

Are we torturing ourselves because we can't decide what's best for him? We've settled in our minds that we will have to say good-bye, but at the same time, I don't want to prematurely end his life.

Any advice?


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

Your faced with the hardest decision you will make as dog owner. With all my previous dogs I have felt like the DOG told me when it was time.

Always tough to let go.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

At 13 there is a good possibility of losing him on the table...

I myself would rather have him go with his head in my lap...


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## schb02 (Feb 21, 2010)

Only you can make that decision. I had to put down my almost 13 year old lab last November because of cancer. She gave me the look and I new it was time. The worse day of my life and I don't wish it on anyone.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I did a different surgery on a 14 1/2 yo. She came through the surgery fine but it affected her kidneys and I lost her anyway. I would never do it again. I would make life as easy as possible for him and stress him as little as possible.

_He had a cancerous tumor removed two years ago,_ *if it hasn't come back that would not bother me. *_He has bumps & lumps (fatty tumors) in various spots and his hind quarters have leaned down_.* Most old dogs do.*

I would make life easy for him and let him tell you because he will. Most of us cater to old dogs as long as they eat, go potty outside and their tails wag.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Bridget Bodine said:


> at 13 there is a good possibility of losing him on the table......
> I myself would rather have him go with his head in my lap......


That was my choice too a few years ago w/ my 13.5 yo. The muscle/neurological loss never improves w/ LP (the vagus nerve never recovers, iow). I was on the Yahoo LP list for a few years and saw many do the surgery on older dogs only to lose them w/in 3 mos to something else (cancer, aspiration pneumonia, etc.). That wasn't how I wanted my girl to spend her last months... recovering from a rather major surgery only to die. I also have a multiple split level house, and helping a 65# dog around stairs, etc. wasn't an option for me. Your situation may differ, but I would rather put them down a bit on the early side than the late side.


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## jheath01 (Mar 22, 2011)

We agree that we'd rather him die in our lap than on my table and everyone keeps telling us that he'll tell us, but we're not seeing it. We're just seeing a happy content dog (as long as he doesn't overexert himself). I feel like we're running out of time with the warm weather coming up. We have to make a decision, maybe that's why it's so hard; I feel like we have to make a decision so quickly.

We know that he's not going to pass on his own. If we don't help him, he'll suffocate to death in the upcoming heat, which we certainly don't want!

Thank you for all of your kind words.


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

I just had the Lar Par surgery on my nearly 13 year old two weeks ago. I would do it again in a heartbeat. It was worth it to have him be able to do the things he loves to do again. I know it could have gone the other way but I felt I needed to give him a chance to have a quality life even though there may be only a little of it left.


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## ironslugs (Mar 10, 2011)

Fiest off, I feel your pain, your dog being 13 yrs old tells me he has had a wonderful life!, September of 2010 my dog Raven had the same thing and had those attacks, my vet told me it was like breathing thru a straw, I know how this feels to you as I went thru the same thing, my decision was to put my dog down and it was very hard for all my family, after I came back from the vet I said I would never get anther dog which lasted 2 wks my new guy now has been with the trainer for a month now and is 6 1/2 mths old, the only thing I can say is the spirit of Raven with always be with all of my family, wish you the best-Anthony


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

jheath01 said:


> everyone keeps telling us that he'll tell us, but we're not seeing it. We're just seeing a happy content dog (as long as he doesn't overexert himself).


They do tell you. It seems like neither of you is ready. Go talk to the specialist. You'll feel better no matter what you decide.

Tough decision. My thoughts are with you.

Here's some other threads on the topic:

This was about Dr. Ed's dog:

*http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55597&highlight=Laryngeal*

Lainee's dog had the surgery:

*http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61433&highlight=laryngeal+paralysis*

*http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18936&highlight=Laryngeal*


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

The issue is most people put there dogs down a little to late. You won't be wrong with doing it early. There whole life is to please us and then the last is when they need us the most. I always relate to grim story of a friend's dog that they felt wasn't time to put him down. They left for work and the dog fell down the stairs. Broke a leg and suffered like all hell for how long, what a sad ending. 

Sometimes you gotta be real, man it up and make the ride. Give em a meal fit for a king, some valum mixed in there and make the "trail of tears" ride. Have the vet come out to your ride and look'em in the eyes. You tell how great they were and never shed a tear. Then you make your ride home pick up a pack of Marlboro reds, reality sets in.


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

Can't give you advice on which way to go... only to search your heart, and do what you think is best for your companion. But don't ask what he'd do for you... NONE of us can live up to that standard!

Do what your heart tells you is right, and you will never be wrong. And your dog will understand.


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## pupaloo (Jan 6, 2006)

Based on your description of your dog-if he was mine I would do the surgery. It's a tough choice, for sure...


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## jheath01 (Mar 22, 2011)

Has anyone out there had the Lar Par surgery done and had long-term success (one year or more)? What I mean is, is your dog able to do everything that he/she normally did? That's my fear with the surgery. I don't want him to suffer through surgery and post-operative complications AND still not enjoy swimming or retrieving or simply going for walks?


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## 3blackdogs (Aug 23, 2004)

jheath01 said:


> Has anyone out there had the Lar Par surgery done and had long-term success (one year or more)? What I mean is, is your dog able to do everything that he/she normally did? That's my fear with the surgery. I don't want him to suffer through surgery and post-operative complications AND still not enjoy swimming or retrieving or simply going for walks?


I sent you a PM, did you get it?


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## jheath01 (Mar 22, 2011)

I can get PMs, but can't reply just yet. I'm too new of a user, I guess.


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

It sounds to me like he isn't ready. He just needs to slow himself down a bit. I would at least go to the specialist. Believe what we have all said, they WILL tell you.


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## LokiMeister (Jan 15, 2010)

jheath01 said:


> Has anyone out there had the Lar Par surgery done and had long-term success (one year or more)? What I mean is, is your dog able to do everything that he/she normally did? That's my fear with the surgery. I don't want him to suffer through surgery and post-operative complications AND still not enjoy swimming or retrieving or simply going for walks?


Loki, the guy in my avatar had the surgery at Vet Specialties in Middleton, WI last March/April. Two months later he was diagnosed with cancer in his cecum (the connection from the small to the large intestine). He had the second surgery ($6,000 total for both) and is doing great. He as arthritis so he doesn't get around much as he used to but is really better off with both surgeries. With the LP surgery, he was instantly better, it was hard to slow him down because of the healing needed. You will have to limit activities on hot, humid days and they (the dogs) let you know that. If you can afford it, I found that this is not an end of life issue. It is a quality improvement of life issue. At 13 years old and the issues that your dog has, the specialist will be able to tell you what the chances of surviving the surgery are, etc.

For me, and my wife, it was an easy decision because he's such a good boy, loves life and chasing bumpers and going to the dog park and it seemed like he just had this issue and the vet told me, if you can afford it, it is a no brainer. Given the same circumstances, I would do it again. We weren't ready to let go.

He just turned 12 on Jan. 22.

As far as those that say they would rather have him pass with their head on their lap, it probably won't be like that with LP. Remember, they won't be able to breathe, they will suffocate to death, not pleasant to me. I would much rather put him to sleep, they and you will be much better for it. Also, I have been told to spend the extra money and have the dog put to sleep at home.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

My 16-yr old girl has LP. Started with a hoarse bark around 11, then at 13 the heavy panting and raspy breath. The only thing we use is prednisone when she is having difficulty--really struggling to breathe. 

We did have a scare a little over a year ago. She coughed/gagged so hard that she triggered the Vegus nerve and she dropped like a stone. White gums, totally unresponsive, no pulse, no breathing. I did CPR and brought her back. Ran bloodwork etc at the emergency clinic and everything was normal--strong heart, clear lungs, no abnormal values.

She is doing great. Hubby even tossed her some bumpers last week. 

Some people see the quickly advancing paralysis in the hindquarters with LP...we haven't had that problem. She is still continent, still pops up from a lying position, walks well, trots occasionally, still swims.

Heat and humidity are HUGE triggers, as is physical stress, like your boy trying to trudge through the snow.

If you do the surgery, your dog can never swim again because the water will go straight down the airway into the lungs. I couldn't do that to my girl...when the weather is ok and not too humid, I will let her swim and swim in our little pond. You can use a harness and a long line to make sure they don't get too far out and get into trouble.

We all feel your pain--the main thing I focus on is the dog's quality of life. That is the key. If some changes in routine and some meds will make him comfortable a little longer, go for it.

Meredith


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## T-bone (Jul 15, 2009)

Had unilateral tieback done on our 10.5 year old. Needed to sedate him for a few weeks after the surgery to keep him quiet and make him wear a life jacket when he swam from then on but he did quite well. The year before his tieback he tore his cruciate and we did the old style surgery rather than the TPLO too. Unfortunately, he ended up developing cancer about a year and a half after the tieback surgery and we did make the decision at that time to put him down because there was nothing we could do.

We too struggled with what was the right decision but our guy was happy and enjoying life. When he got cancer he lost his spark and we didn't struggle with that decision at all.

Definitely don't envy the position you're in. Thank goodness we have the option to make their trip out of this life a pleasant one.


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## stevehaun (Nov 1, 2010)

I am sorry to hear about your dog's condition. I think the most important thing you have to ask yourself is this: Am I doing the surgery for the dog or am I doing the surgery for me? They give us so much. The one thing we can (usually) give them is a painless death with some degree of dignity.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

I don't envy you having to make this decision. It sounds like you don't think it is time. If the dog is not suffering, I would not allow myself to feel rushed into a permanent decision.

Best wishes with your decision.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

LokiMeister said:


> As far as those that say they would rather have him pass with their head on their lap, it probably won't be like that with LP. Remember, they won't be able to breathe, they will suffocate to death, not pleasant to me. I would much rather put him to sleep, they and you will be much better for it. Also, I have been told to spend the extra money and have the dog put to sleep at home.


 That is what we are talking about , having the dog put to sleep as we hold them in our lab...........


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## ironslugs (Mar 10, 2011)

I had made an earlier post, again I am very sorry to hear of your 13yr old dog having the issues he has and truely feel sad, but again every thing you posted is exactly what my dog Raven had and again if what i read is exact, the humane thing would be spend quality time and have him put to peace, i have read some post and everyone here has good intentions but not sure if all know the situation, talk to your vet again you will hear what he is saying when your listening again, your dog is important so in your heart you really know and again I'm sorry


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## PocketLab (Apr 23, 2010)

If you have these serious doubts, then it's probably not time. He will tell you. Can't describe what it will be like, but you will know. It is the greatest, most important, and toughest responsibility we have when we take on a pup.

Good luck


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## MoJo (Mar 24, 2004)

I can't speak to LP and its ramifications, but can tell you that this is a difficult time for you and you are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Lenore (Apr 2, 2010)

I am sorry to hear about what you are going through. I remember when our then 10 yr old guy had to have a tumor removed under his eye, he got through surgery fine but the anesthesis sp? was really hard on him. It took him a couple of days to really return to normal. I think if I was in your shoes, go see the specialist, have a blood panel drawn, make sure he is healthy enough for surgery, weight all the pros and cons, then go from there. As someone already said the way they go from LP doesn't sound pretty and I don't know if I could deal with that. Good luck!!

Curious how do you know if your dog has LP? Sorry this is the first that I heard about it. Thank you!


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

mwk56 said:


> If you do the surgery, your dog can never swim again because the water will go straight down the airway into the lungs.


Not necessarily true.

I have a 13 year old dog that had LP surgery (unilateral tie back) over a year ago. He swims every time he gets a chance and has had no problems whatsoever in that regard.

Generally, laryngeal paralysis is an old dog disease, and many old dogs are able to get a new lease on life by having tieback surgery. I have no regrets whatsoever for surgically helping my old dog to breath and to have a good quality of life.

I encourage anyone with an LP dog to join the laryngeal paralysis discussion group on Yahoo



http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/



The folks in that group have a wealth of experience with their own dogs. There are also a number of veterinarians that participate. Lots and lots of good info available to help any dog owner contemplating LP surgery.


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## maximommy (Aug 27, 2015)

to JHEATH01,

I hope you found peace with whatever you decided for your 13 year old. I am faced with same mental anguish for my 11 1/2 year old black lab now. Hoping that you are well and wanted to thank you for your post as it gave me some comfort knowing someone else was having the same feelings.


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2015)

To anyone with a dog with LP, this is our story. We just went through this on March when we finally had to put our beloved Bear down. He was a little over 13. We had to stop taking him to the vet he would have an episode because he would get so excited. The vet said don't bring him in anymore for fear he would die. This was in June of 2014. By Sept he started having the worst attacks at night so we put him on tussigon which helped for awhile. Also had Ace on hand to knock him down if he got to bad. He slowed down a lot, had a few episodes of losing his balance especially when it started getting hot. He started gagging while trying to eat so we raised his bowl soaked his food and finally hand fed him to try and control it. He than started to throw up food and water and had a very bad attack where he couldn't breath. He was gasping his lips pulled back trying to get air. We wet him down, caged him and put a fan on him a few minutes later he acted fine. Two days later we made the decision to let him go I lost my lab Dusty to LP in 2011 He died in my backyard trying to breathe we couldn't let Bear go the same way. We did everything we could for him he started having fatty tumors on his body a huge one on his shoulder, losing weight , lameness set in and they could not operate on him. It was either let him die peacefully or suffer a horrible death. Im sorry you are going through this its very hard to let them go but please do whats best for your dog. We were selfish we didn't want to let Bear go he had good days and bad but he was never going to get better only worse. I didn't see an update so I hope you and your dog are ok


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Maximommy - 

I didn't PM you because I see you don't have enough posts to do pm's yet...

This hits home... Two weeks ago today I said goodbye to my "Mickie". She was not quite 13... We fought Laryngeal Paralysis for two summers at least. Short of the surgery which I opted not to do for the risks involved; I did all I could for her. This summer we put her on a very low dose of Ace Promazine ( light sedative), in the evenings, just enough to have her relax and not get too worked up. Evenings were her worst because that's when I was in the house , cooking dinner, eating etc. (she was the hungriest Labrador I've ever had-and eating was HER THING! She would beg and get all worked up breathing and then have problems). The ace worked pretty well to take her down a notch. She would rest during the day when I was out at the kennel working.

I bought her a cool vest, that I would soak in water, and put on her when she was heated up or worked up. Worked very well to soothe her and lower her body temp, making her not pant. 

Every day was tough, at feeding time she would be so excited to eat, that she would have coughing/gagging episodes and breathing was tough. How hard to think of putting down a dog who has so much vim and vigor for life! That was the dilemma that struck me every day with her---- Recently she began regurgitating undigested food and water, and generally having more trouble... I made the tough decision to have her go in my lap, rather than suffocate to death... Hardest dog decision I ever made, and I have 8 other cedar boxes in my house with ashes, so I'm no rookie to this decision... 

I don't envy you and don't wish it on anyone to have a dog with this affliction... Know your dog, and you will make the best decision that you can for her... Best wishes...


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## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

All very tough stuff, hard to out one down in March for very different reasons, but the decision process is very similar.

Just wanted to add a quick bit of info here. Most labs are pretty easy to handle. If you have a dog that has LP and he/she has a bad attack, one thing you can do to help, is to gently open their mouth slightly, grab the tongue gently but firmly, helps to use a cotton glove on your hand. Get a hold of the middle of the tongue and pull it as far forward as possible, but again gently. This helps open the airway. Dogs I have seen when in an ER would just sit there and let you hold it, as they could now breath. Plus we could see the larynx moving, or collapsing. They harder they try to breath the worse it gets. Higher air velocity drops pressure and the larynx collapses without the muscles holding open. Same physical property as to why airplanes fly, cannot remember the name if it.

I will not be responsible for you getting bit, so you know your dog and if you can handle that way. In a pinch it can really help.

Thoughts are with all of us dealing with these life changing decisions.


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## Momof5 (Aug 17, 2021)

Our beautiful short haired German pointer died on Sunday-he was 12 years 3 month and 4 days old. He was my life, my best friend. He had the noisy breathing and we were told by a vet he had a heart issue. One day when my vet was away we saw a lady vet-she instantly told me he had LAR PAR. I did not ask and was not given options or what may be. 

Vegas was fit and agile and had 3 acres to run around on but this summers hot hot heat had a big effect. We thought we had time. We thought we would know. We did not think of how it may go. He loves visitors. I accidently shut the door to the kitchen and went out to greet my son and wife and our two grandchildren whom Vegas adored. He could hear them. Next moment my husband is screaming -what did the dog choke on. We tried Heimlich, we tried fingers down his throat- his terrified eyes and salivating and watching him suffer. 

We got him through the 20m min drive to the vets- they took one look and took him from us-intubated and put him under anesthetic to run tests and look for an obstruction- it was the Laryngeal prolapse all his tissues had collapsed. They took him off the machine but at our request kept him sedated whilst we said goodbye-despite the sedation when he heard our voices he wagged his tail so they quickly gave him a top up. 

I guess what I am trying to say is I did not want him to die this way. I wish we had made the choice about a week earlier when we noticed he was breathing very heavy and stomach breathing and we should have done it - looking back his back legs were wasting a little, he could not longer get up on the bed or the take the stairs easy but yes some days he still ran around the property and this made us think we had longer - the good days were so great but he paid the price for our delay and I feel like my heart has been ripped out


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

My condolences! Tough deal and I know it was hard to write about. Better a day to soon than a week too late.

However remember the good times and high points.

Best wishes,
DK


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Sadly this thread has re-emerged just as my husband and I are facing this with our 13 1/2 year old Chessie. At our last vet visit we were told that in addition to arthritis Scout probably had LP based on the description i provided of his horrible breathing and gagging when eating. He kind of shrugged off the idea of surgery due to age and other issues. He didn't go into detail of what to expect. Now reading through all of this i realize that Scout has probably been showing symptoms for several years. Things like the heavy panting, loss of balance and falling, we attributed to his bad hips and elbows. We manage his pain with Derramax and he has responded well. He always wants to go for walks and as someone mentioned above, his appetite is huge. Yesterday he even chased a tennis ball and being Scout ran away with it rather than delivering to Ralph! But he gets terribly anxious and stressed at nights so Ralph has been sitting up with him, holding Scout’s head in his lap.

This morning I read this whole thread and decided to make an appointment with our previous vet, the one that has treated Scout for the past 9 years. The soonest i could get an appointment is September 2! i pray that we can manage his condition sufficiently until then. This dog is Ralph’s heart and soul. I cant imagine him having to watch Scout suffer as described here.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

When my old girl developed LP, we used Valium and prednisone. Valium to calm the anxious moments and the pred for the irritation/swelling in the throat. Seemed to help a bit, but the biggest thing is keeping them quiet, NO RUNNING or getting excited or overheated. I started airing her on a flexi lead so she couldn’t take off on her own.

Best wishes. It is always tough.

Meredith


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## dogshom (Mar 16, 2010)

My 12 yo lab has lp. For the most part it is easily managed by acupuncture and a Chinese herb product called Breathe Easier. I was told by our vet that the lp surgery was a game changer for many dogs. Our lab has a few other things wrong with him that will mean I will probably put him down when/if he gets that bad. His energy and vitality are that of an 8 year old dog, so for now we just enjoy every day with him. Good luck with this decision. It is a heart breaker, for sure.


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