# Conflicting Views on Choke Chain Training Age



## Brian Daniels (May 21, 2011)

Hi Guys,

I am new to the forum, and have to say that this is a great place for folks like myself(training my first blm) to learn from people that have been in the game for multiple years and multiple dogs. Here are my questions, and thanks in advance for any help you can provide me. 

I have a 10 week old blm pup that I have had since 6 weeks. I am using a combination of both Dokkens' retriever training book, and the wildrose kennels training dvd. 

Anyways, in both the book and dvd, they talk about choke chain training BUT do not give a specific age when to start. I understand that everyone has there own views on when to start, but I guess my question is at what age is it SAFE to begin training, and at what point in my young pups training should I begin lead training schedule with the use of a choke chain?

Like I said, I am a greenhorn. I hope I was not too wordy, but I really want to do my best with my pup, and try to eliminate as many training mistakes(on my part) to ensure that he does not form bad habits, get burnt out on training, etc. Also, if you guys recommend I train using another source(I have heard good things about smart works) then please let me know. Thanks again for your help, and I am really excited to be part of the forum.

Brian


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## Larry Thompson1 (Apr 19, 2011)

Brian, I like to ensure that I have basic obedience done before i start training with the chocker. I mean sit means sit. here means here. Full compliance with these. That means the dog has been CC or collar conditioned. 

The dog is around 4 months or more before I start CC. Light preasure to be sure. 

What I try to do with the choker is train to heal walking and stopping and going and stopping, along with a healing stick to ensure the right placement of the dog. 

This I do before FF Force Fetch. All depends on the maturity of the dog in question. So when I get the dog off of the FF table and start walking fetch the dog is comfortable walking at heal before walking fetch. (Stick Fetch) I know some trainers skip this but I like to do it to ensure quick response to the command fetch. Transfers the dogs from table to ground quikly in my opinion.

So slow down big boy its a journey. You will get there in time.

The pups 10 wks old. I like small sesions of OB and a few I mean very few, like 2 retrieves a session for a young puppy like that. Too many retrieves they start to get bored with it. 2 and stop. they are so excited when you do it again they want more and leaving them that way, wanting more is what you want in developing a retrieving machine. Too much and they are not as focussed the next session. Little pups like to be little pups for a while. So hide your good boots and let them attack the wifes.


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## Red Barn Retrievers (May 18, 2011)

No magic age, just make sure that your pup gives to the lead with the reg collar first. Can you tie the pup to a secure area and he doesn't fight the lead ? Have you let him drag the lead around. I like for a pup to Know how to do a little ob, mainly stay, sit and here, first. The cc must be kept loose never tight, the cue is in the tap not the choke. It is easy to get the pup to come to heel, on the check cord with the reg collar. Never follow the pup, or allow pulling (if you can,dogs love to pull) except for airing out (relieveing) Keep changing directions untill he is watching you. Dog learn your body langauge, many people talk to their dogs to much in training, When I say heel sit or stay, I have the pup already giving me the action. When I say a command, I want the marble to go into the hole( Brain). Now the pups got it. Take your time. Build a good foundation one step at a time...It not the instrument it is the musician that make the music. Happy Trails & Tails. Denny


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

I'd rather use a prong personally. Choke chains can do tracheal damage.
I keep mine on a flat collar until ~6 mos and then go to prong if needed.
I will use a chain after the dogs are pretty well into training for their CD (novice obed) title.


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## alynn (Apr 5, 2008)

I teach the commands first using food. After the dog knows the commands and becomes a handful (depends on the dog when this happens) I I use a prong. They do less damage & require less leash pressure.


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## Dog Pro (Apr 9, 2008)

Pinch collar at 4-5 months of age,after the pup has yielded to a strap collar.I never use a choke chain,too much potential for harm.


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## Brian Daniels (May 21, 2011)

Thanks for the responses, guys. I have already begun treat training, and he is doing well with sit and here. I have not even started "stay" yet, but plan to do so shortly. I have allowed him to drag around a lead, and have also began to tie him out to get used to having a lead hanging off of his collar. He still wants to fight it(very strong willed pup). I have also started to use a lead on our daily walks through the creek bottoms and walking paths to get him used to it, but am only using positive reinforcement...no dragging the pup. 


It sounds like I need to wait until about 4-5 months of age for CC/Prong, which is okay for me. I will concentrate on his first 4 commands right now, and like I have seen on here, I will make sure I take my time with obedience and not move on from one skill until it has been mastered. 

Thanks again for all of your help!

Brian


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

6 weeks is young to take a pup - socialize the snot out of him. Good luck.


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## Brian Daniels (May 21, 2011)

HNTFSH said:


> 6 weeks is young to take a pup - socialize the snot out of him. Good luck.


Thanks for the heads up. I have him around people all day(he goes to work with me), and I try to let him socialize with other well behaved dogs every night he goes to the park, on the boat, etc. He appears to be doing alright.


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## Red Barn Retrievers (May 18, 2011)

A couple more words of wisdom, The three T's Teach, Train. Test. only test when you are sure your pup can pass the test, never set a dog up to fail only suceed. The Three D's Distraction, This can be added later, don't fight the pups natural instinct to loose focus because his mind is courious, Duration, Distance. Short, Short, Short. Again success is the important factor. The Principles of Attention. Association, Condiitioning and Control. Every time you touch the pup you teach him. To train right think like the dog. He will tell you what he is going to do before he does it READ him he can't lie. Now Have fun together. Happy Trails and Tails. (If he is the pup in the pic He has the look of intense, so good luck.


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## Brian Daniels (May 21, 2011)

Red Barn Retrievers said:


> A couple more words of wisdom, The three T's Teach, Train. Test. only test when you are sure your pup can pass the test, never set a dog up to fail only suceed. The Three D's Distraction, This can be added later, don't fight the pups natural instinct to loose focus because his mind is courious, Duration, Distance. Short, Short, Short. Again success is the important factor. The Principles of Attention. Association, Condiitioning and Control. Every time you touch the pup you teach him. To train right think like the dog. He will tell you what he is going to do before he does it READ him he can't lie. Now Have fun together. Happy Trails and Tails. (If he is the pup in the pic He has the look of intense, so good luck.


Thanks for the great advice. I really appreciate, and yes that is my little boy Shelby in the picture. At 10 weeks, he is an absolute freight train through tall cover, woods and water. I am really excited about his potential, but I have a feeling I will be spending a lot of time on steadiness and formalizing obedience which doesnt bother me


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

First off ditch the *Wildrose video* it was given to me I watched it twice, first time with a closed mind, second time I really tried to find something good about it but failed, couldn't even bring myself to give it to anyone else, ended up throwing it in the trash. I slip a choker (never really choked one with it) on around 12 weeks and let them wear it and drag a short rope around with it, never hurt one and wouldn't want to wait untill they were 5 or 6 monthes old to do it.

Most of the advice given kind of throws the HILLMAN puppy program out the window..... Too Bad


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

alynn said:


> I teach the commands first using food. After the dog knows the commands and becomes a handful (depends on the dog when this happens) I I use a prong. They do less damage & require less leash pressure.


Agree! 

Why enforce a command that a 70 day old pup doesn't understand? Obedience has to be about learning the language and all fun and happy at first. 

At some time in the future (not too long from now) you can begin to show pup that commands are not suggestions. 

And the prong is much safer than the choke chain.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by alynn
> I teach the commands first using food. After the dog knows the commands and becomes a handful (depends on the dog when this happens) I I use a prong. They do less damage & require less leash pressure.
> 
> ...


Threegree.


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