# Pro Plan smoe plan



## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

I'm very much sold on the food I'm feeding. However I have one 8 month old that has very loose stools off and on. No problem other than that, looks and acts great. So far over 2 hundred bucks in vet bills to try and fix it. So before I go back to the vet I thought I'd try and switch food.
For the life of me I dont see what ya'll see in Pro Plan. According to the research I've done on all ingredience Pro Plan is junk. Euk compares more favorably to what I feed but $43 a bag just sucks.


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## BIG DOG (Apr 17, 2003)

i am trying out the natural series by diamond its corn free, on paper its compairable to euk lb puppy (diamond actually has more protien) so far the consensus is this, when i mixed PPP lb pup w/ Diamond LB pup she pushed the Purina away to eat the diamond.

since it is corn free there shouldn't be a alpfatoxin incident

btw my reason for feeding this is, i wanted a food that was euk quality, since euk not avaliable in my imediate area


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

Steve Shaver said:


> I'm very much sold on the food I'm feeding. However I have one 8 month old that has very loose stools off and on. No problem other than that, looks and acts great. So far over 2 hundred bucks in vet bills to try and fix it. So before I go back to the vet I thought I'd try and switch food.
> For the life of me I dont see what ya'll see in Pro Plan. According to the research I've done on all ingredience Pro Plan is junk. Euk compares more favorably to what I feed but $43 a bag just sucks.


Millions of very healthy dogs might indicate that your research is junk.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

There are many good premium dog fuels available. Why don't you try some others that might agree with your dog. One size doesn't fit all 

Just because it doesn't agree with your dog doesn't mean it's crap food.

Personally, I had just OK success on ProPlan but I like PMI Exclusive much, much, much more. My dog has nice tight BM's on it. But I have a buddy who doesn't care for Exclusive because his dogs get loose....go figger 

Same research material/staff (before the split between Ralston Purina and Purina Mills Inc.) better ingredients and costs less. Maybe you could give Exclusive a try?


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Cat Squirrel said:


> There are many good premium dog fuels available. Why don't you try some others that might agree with your dog. One size doesn't fit all
> 
> Just because it doesn't agree with your dog doesn't mean it's crap food.
> 
> ...


 


Exclusive is what I am feeding and I like it VERY much. I have seen great results from it with my own dogs as well as others that have switched to it. It's just this one pup that is loose. May not even be the food.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Steve Hester said:


> Millions of very healthy dogs might indicate that your research is junk.


 
Well thank you very much on your JUNK reply.
Just adds to my frustration on dog foods. There are millions of healthy dogs on grocery store foods too but I'm sure as hell not gonna feed any of that stuff


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

I've fed a variety of Pro Plan foods over the last 20 yrs and have yet to have a problem. I currently have 2 geriatric dogs on PP Senior a couple of trial dogs on Euk and the balance on Sams Exceed. No problems with any of the foods. It could be that some foods do not agree with all dogs digestive systems.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Well, Exclusive may not agree with that dog. I have heard good things about Pro Plan Selects, but if Eukanuba works, I would rather pay the price per bag than vet bills. Have you given the dog some probiotics? Purina makes a supplement called Forti-Flora where you give a packet of probiotics on their food everyday for 30 days to change the intestinal mix and it does work very well on that type of diarrhea.


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## Ed Hogan (Mar 14, 2007)

Steve Shaver said:


> Exclusive is what I am feeding and I like it VERY much. I have seen great results from it with my own dogs as well as others that have switched to it. It's just this one pup that is loose. May not even be the food.


I also feed Exclusive. All dogs do great on it except for Quasi pup. I had to go to adult with her, stools tightened right up. She was also about 8mo when I made the switch. I like Exclusive's performance and have no intentions of switching, not even for Euk.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> Well, Exclusive may not agree with that dog. I have heard good things about Pro Plan Selects, but if Eukanuba works, I would rather pay the price per bag than vet bills. Have you given the dog some probiotics? Purina makes a supplement called Forti-Flora where you give a packet of probiotics on their food everyday for 30 days to change the intestinal mix and it does work very well on that type of diarrhea.


 

Probiotics? What is this? A digestive enzyme suppliment? Where can I find Forti-Flora? I've been trying on the vets advice an enzyme suppliment called Prozyme. Been on it for about a week. Actually he thought it may help with the stool eating by digesting more of the food. He said even the best of foods are only about 70% digestable.


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## greg ye (Nov 28, 2007)

I use unpasteurized yogurt to repopulate bacteria after antibiotics. So, the pup w/ loose stool eats poop? Sounds like gut over-populated with bad bacteria. Metronidazole- yogurt- then keep away from stools.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

Try Native. 40 lb bag shipped free to a local store for about $27 a bag. It's also now the official food of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever.
http://www.nativedogfood.com/


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## Matt Griffiths (Feb 3, 2004)

We have fed a lot of different foods over the years, PP, Diamond, Nutro, Iam’s, Science Diet, and others. We have been feeding Pro Plan for the last few years with good results for both of our breeds (Labs, Rottie’s and one odd ball Flat Coat). It’s the only food we have found that both of the dogs do well on, by this I mean everything from stool to coat to weight maintenance to energy level.

But I’m certainly not above learning more, what issue's have you found with the ingredients in PP.


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## greg ye (Nov 28, 2007)

TroyFeeken said:


> Try Native. 40 lb bag shipped free to a local store for about $27 a bag. It's also now the official food of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever.
> http://www.nativedogfood.com/


I'll second that! 4 levels of performance! Available anywhere Kent Feeds is distributed.


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## dirtyrice (Oct 27, 2007)

I have a 16month blf thats been on PPP for about 8months and always done very very well on it, healthy weight, coat, firm stools. The last bag I brought home she turned her nose up at it. I'm thinking "okay bad batch or something" until I try and feed her the PPP in my handlers bag from a recent hunt test. Scoffed at that too. I bought a bag of Diamond select athlete or something like that and she woofed it down... Anybody have a similar experience with a dog suddenly not wanting to eat what they've been fed on?


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## Kris Hunt (Feb 25, 2005)

OH GOODIE - A MY DOG FOOD IS BETTER THAN YOUR DOG FOOD - Thread

Kris


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

greg ye said:


> I use unpasteurized yogurt to repopulate bacteria after antibiotics. So, the pup w/ loose stool eats poop? Sounds like gut over-populated with bad bacteria. Metronidazole- yogurt- then keep away from stools.


 

Been there done that, not much better.


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## greg ye (Nov 28, 2007)

Over feed- loose; under feed- chip w/ golf club; just right- formed but soft.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Matt Griffiths said:


> We have fed a lot of different foods over the years, PP, Diamond, Nutro, Iam’s, Science Diet, and others. We have been feeding Pro Plan for the last few years with good results for both of our breeds (Labs, Rottie’s and one odd ball Flat Coat). It’s the only food we have found that both of the dogs do well on, by this I mean everything from stool to coat to weight maintenance to energy level.
> 
> But I’m certainly not above learning more, what issue's have you found with the ingredients in PP.


 

For one too much grain at the top of the list. Even though chicken is listed as the first ingredient it may not make up the bulk of the food. For example PP largebreed puppy's ingredients list, chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal. It may have more chicken than the rice or the corn gluten but if you combine the two they may out weigh the chicken. Forth ingredient is poultry by product meal then whole grain corn and wheat. Also some PP list beef tallow pretty high up on the list and according to a web site I have looked at that breaks down the quality of ingredients individually claims that beef tallow is very hard for dogs to digest. Also PP does not list Omega 6 and 3 fatty acids in the analysist.
I know a lot of people including big name pros swear by Pro Plan and that's the only reason I am considering trying it with this pup. If not for that just from what I have read and by comparing ingredients I wouldnt touch it.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

My pup was eating poop-sicles. My Vet told me to sprinkle a little meat tenderizer on his food. He said it passes through the dog and makes the poop smell bad to the dog. He stoped eating the poop in less then a week. I stoped using the meat tenderizer and he has not gone back to eating poop.


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

Steve, does the feed your pup is on use beet pulp for fiber? If so, you might well want to give something without it, like PP or Purina One, a shot. Over the past several years, we've tried (for fairly substantial periods of time) Eukanuba, PMI, Arkat, Diamond and a feed store brand with beet pulp, and all have produced more poop (and gas) than feeds without. 

(And, yes, folks I know beet pulp isn't supposed to act as a laxative, but it's been the common demominator in feeds that ran through my guys faster than feeds without. And, yes, I've tried feeding less - to the point of emaciating the dogs in the quest for firm turds from beet pulp feeds.)

Anyway, it's something to consider.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

My dogs never did well on pro plan very very loose stools. I now feed Nutro Natural Choice.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Rick Hall said:


> Steve, does the feed your pup is on use beet pulp for fiber? If so, you might well want to give something without it, like PP or Purina One, a shot. Over the past several years, we've tried (for fairly substantial periods of time) Eukanuba, PMI, Arkat, Diamond and a feed store brand with beet pulp, and all have produced more poop (and gas) than feeds without.
> 
> (And, yes, folks I know beet pulp isn't supposed to act as a laxative, but it's been the common demominator in feeds that ran through my guys faster than feeds without. And, yes, I've tried feeding less - to the point of emaciating the dogs in the quest for firm turds from beet pulp feeds.)
> 
> Anyway, it's something to consider.


 


Yes it does have beet pulp. Something to consider thanks.


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## kdbauman (Sep 10, 2004)

For the life of me I dont see what ya'll see in Pro Plan. According to the research I've done on all ingredience Pro Plan is junk. 


Wow, pretty strong statement from a guy that can't spell ingredients. You want to believe when you see a post like this that people are bright enough to take it for what it is worth...maybe not. Exactly what research did you do before placing Pro Plan in the junk category?


For one too much grain at the top of the list. Even though chicken is listed as the first ingredient it may not make up the bulk of the food. For example PP largebreed puppy's ingredients list, chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal. It may have more chicken than the rice or the corn gluten but if you combine the two they may out weigh the chicken. Forth ingredient is poultry by product meal then whole grain corn and wheat. Also some PP list beef tallow pretty high up on the list and according to a web site I have looked at that breaks down the quality of ingredients individually claims that beef tallow is very hard for dogs to digest. Also PP does not list Omega 6 and 3 fatty acids in the analysist.
I know a lot of people including big name pros swear by Pro Plan and that's the only reason I am considering trying it with this pup. If not for that just from what I have read and by comparing ingredients I wouldnt touch it.


By law, the ingredients must be listed on the tag in the order of the percentage they occur in the formulation. For any manufacturer, it could be true that the second and third listed ingredients combined make up a higher percentage than that single first ingredient....so what. By the way, corn gluten meal is 60% crude protein, if it made up the portion of the formula you want us to believe the products crude protein would be off the charts. The comments about beef tallow are even further from the truth. Animal fats used in animal nutrition trade in 3 basic categories, the cheapest being yellow grease, followed by choice white grease and the most expensive, highest quality being beef tallow. Look at metabolizable energy of the formula if you want to begin to understand fat/energy. Finally, you should already know from your exhaustive research that linoleic acid is a Omega 6 fatty acid. You would also know that DHA and EPA are Omega 3 fatty acids. These Omega fatty acids are listed right there on the "analysist" as you put it. The Purina Pro Plan line is what it is, one of a small handful of premium canine diets available in commercial channels.


I would like to dispell another comment made in this thread. PMI and Ralston Purina do not share the same formulation and research team. PMI distributed Pro Plan through its dealers for 5 years following the sale by Ralston Purina of that division to another company. That distribution deal was not renewed at the end of five years. At that point, PMI entered the pet food market by having Doanes, the countries largest private label pet food manufacturer make its pet food. That relationship continues today with the exception of the Exclusive product which is made for them by Diamond Pet Foods.


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## runnindawgz (Oct 3, 2007)

I have a 9 year old with IBS/colotis ... FINALY a food we can live with! YOU GUESSED IT ... *Purina *Perscription EN formula (after many years of testing/trial and error with diet - all vet supervised)- ask your vet about it - it must be RX. Also - if your stuck on EUK - you may want to research their low residue formula also Rx.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

kdbauman said:


> For the life of me I dont see what ya'll see in Pro Plan. According to the research I've done on all ingredience Pro Plan is junk.
> 
> 
> Wow, pretty strong statement from a guy that can't spell ingredients. You want to believe when you see a post like this that people are bright enough to take it for what it is worth...maybe not. Exactly what research did you do before placing Pro Plan in the junk category?
> ...


 


What ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## born2retrieve (Nov 18, 2007)

Why jump a guy for spelling. I ask my 12 year old how to spell words all the time!! Does that make me a bad dog trainer??


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## greg ye (Nov 28, 2007)

kdbauman said:


> Wow, pretty strong statement from a guy that can't spell ingredients. You want to believe when you see a post like this that people are bright enough to take it for what it is worth...maybe not. Exactly what research did you do before placing Pro Plan in the junk category?
> 
> 
> "Ever heard the word, "empirical?"
> ...


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Here's where I got some of my info.



http://www.doberdogs.com/foodcht1.html


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## FetchExpress (May 31, 2006)

I offer Steve my slightly used "flak jacket". :-D


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Wow, I never realized how truly passionate some folks are about dried kibble dog food!!! 

WooooHoooo!!!!! 

Steve, just keep trying until you find something premium that works


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## Bill A (Jan 17, 2008)

I might also want to point you guys jumping all over Steve to another website: dogfoodanalysis.com. I'm not trying to argue sides - I haven't been around long enough to have tried too many of the foods out there - but as far as the quality of the ingredients go, PP leaves a lot to be desired. 
-Bill


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

FetchExpress said:


> I offer Steve my slightly used "flak jacket". :-D


 

Do knot knead it, beter giv it to the utter gy


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Man STEVE!!!

Next time I wannna draw attention to my ownself,, I'm a gonna remember this and slam someones kitty food!!

Jealous regards 

Gooser


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Cat Squirrel said:


> Wow, I never realized how truly passionate some folks are about dried kibble dog food!!!
> 
> WooooHoooo!!!!!
> 
> Steve, just keep trying until you find something premium that works


Amen brother, if it's not working for you go with something else. There is plenty of good food on the market.


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## DMA (Jan 9, 2008)

Try the Probiotic PB-8 from Fred Meyers or any health food store. Works very well for pups and younger dogs and small children.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

ErinsEdge said:


> Have you given the dog some probiotics? Purina makes a supplement called Forti-Flora where you give a packet of probiotics on their food everyday for 30 days to change the intestinal mix and it does work very well on that type of diarrhea.


My vet has put my puppy on this and it seems to be helping.


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## goofyfoot (Jan 3, 2008)

I would second the dogfoodanalysis.com rec.......I've fed Exclusive and ProPlan....but I've recently switched to Solid Gold.....


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## Ricky Elston (Nov 25, 2004)

I've been feeding Pro Plan Performance for years and of the 6 dogs I've had on it, they have all done well on it.


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## pistol (Mar 24, 2004)

I wonder how many people who care this much about what goes in their dogs mouth worry about what they're putting in their own mouths or for the matter, their children's mouths?
________
Vaporizer store


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## 2Blackdogs! (Apr 6, 2006)

Steve- Have you tried any or the various ProPlan Varients? There are several formulas. For your situation I would try the one that is marketed for "Sensitive Skin and Stomach". It is based on Salmon. I do not see corn anywhere on the list of ingredients. Went thru a similar situation years ago with one dog thay would get loose on occasion and this absolutely fixed it and no prescription required. I believe it is priced the same as the other proplans and if the store you go to carries one type of PP they should be able to get you this one too. I would bet that this fixes your problem.

Pistol- you are absolutely right- Now where is that box of donuts


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## tmfrt (Apr 17, 2006)

pistol said:


> I wonder how many people who care this much about what goes in their dogs mouth worry about what they're putting in their own mouths or for the matter, their children's mouths?


If I could pour any food into a bowl without complaint from the little one, I would definately be more anal about the little details of each meal. I'm just happy when I can get something green onto the plate next to the corndogs or mac n' cheese.


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## Chris Coker (Mar 8, 2008)

I feed EUK and will never go back. I used to feed Nutros to my first lab and loved that but his coat was not even close to Jacks coat on Euk. Also I believe that Euk is owned by the same company that makes crest toothpaste and they have an ingreedient that help to clean their teeth too. I have seen some before and after pics of dogs that had tartar issues and after a few months on Euk they went away. To me it is worth the price. That is my .02 cents.


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## DiversDown (Nov 16, 2007)

Arkat...enough said.


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## Paul-TEXAS (Jan 7, 2003)

"Ken-L-Ration"

My dog's better than your dog regards,

Paul-TEXAS


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Most people, myself included at times pay more attention to the dogs food than their own, sad.

As far as the kids, they can only eat what you bring into the house. Never show them the difference and they will not know.

John


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Steve Shaver said:


> Here's where I got some of my info.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.doberdogs.com/foodcht1.html


There are a number of inaccuracies and incorrect data found on this website. With that thought it mind it indicates there are more. And it hasn't been updated for four years. 

FYI.


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## awesmlab (Nov 13, 2003)

Honestly, I don't get why any of you feed either Pro Plan or Eukanuba. They are both (most of the formulas) filled with grains and by-products and unnecessary fillers.


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## Matt's Grizz (Apr 17, 2008)

I hate the loose stools!!! I bought my puppy in Feb and had him shipped. The first month he got guardia, then coccidia..I know loose stools. I got those things cleared up. He had some loose stools occasionally when I was feeding pro plan. The Vet gave me a powder to put in his food called Colitis Herbal Powder. It worked immediately. I switched him to raw food, and he's doing awesome. Try the powder..Look into the raw food diet...www.barfworld.com.


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Use whichever agrees with your dog. I have been very happy with Eagle Pack and its results.


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## RemsBPJasper (Apr 25, 2005)

It boils down to this...do your research, and by that you better do a lot of it because for every internet source you find that says one thing, there will be another that contradicts it. Decide what you can and cannot live with feeding your dog. Then look at the different foods and pick one with your requirements that will also fit your budget. If your dog does well on it, keep it. If not, pick another one. It's pretty simple. Idk why people get so defensive. I think the biggest thing to remember is that just because 90% of dogs do well on one brand, does not mean that your dog will. 

Prime example, have used Nutro in the past, loved it, dogs did well, good stool, good coats, etc. The two males I had on it needed 4-6 cups twice a day to keep weight up (one had a health issue). The other male we still have on it only needs 2-3 cups a day. Used ProPlan with two dogs. First dog did ok on it, could have kept using it but preferred Nutro at the time. Current dog did horrible on it. Loose stool and she didn't like it. I really, really like Nature's Variety. They do freeze-dried kibble, canned, and frozen raw. I'm having a hard time finding the kibble being kept in stock and getting miffed at the store for not answering my questions when I ask every time I'm in and leave notes with my number, but that's a different story. Their raw food is awesome. I have home-fed, made food for my renal dog in the past. That's the only scenario where you know 100% what exactly is going into your dog's mouth. But you have to know what dogs will digest and what ratios they need, not just protein and fat but calcium, phos. and more. Cool website you can check out it you want, let me know. 

....to be finished gotta work now...


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## RemsBPJasper (Apr 25, 2005)

Ok, don't have to work just yet...love EMS. Anyways...

For me I'm a big proponent of raw foods. Since it's a pain in the butt to figure everything out and make the meals, I use the frozen raw. But I also supplement with kibble because raw is expensive and dry is just easy to take with you. 

A few things to note...eggs are the number one source of bioavailable protein, followed by chicken and beef (not sure which is two and which is three). 

I think you've ruled out a medical issue so start "playing" around with different foods. Oh, since I'm having such a hard time with getting Nature's Variety now I'm using Innova Evo Red Meat. 

Good luck!


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Well, I feed Pro Plan, have for years and the one thing I've noticed is my dogs **** stinks. If fact is stinks so bad I have to clean it up twice a day. Now when you have 10-20 dogs in the kennels constantly thats a lot of stinking ****. I thought about switching food one time but I have yet to find anyone that can tell me thier **** don't stink, and be able to prove it. So I'm staying with Pro Plan. So, if your **** don't stink, please let me know.....

oh and I'd love to be Steve's vet. 2hundred bucks on running stools, nice profit in that.

/Paul


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## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

> *pistol* wrote; I wonder how many people who care this much about what goes in their dogs mouth worry about what they're putting in their own mouths or for the matter, their children's mouths?



I've been trying to get the wife on a good weight management formula...but she keeps telling me to kiss her a**...go figure.

I care what she eats regards,
Terry


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

I have been feeding Bill Old Roy for years. He is 546 years old (in dog years). He has lost some muscle tone, has most of his teeth and keeps blowing his coat on top but he can still scoop poop with the best of us. I think I'll keep him.


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## Guest (May 10, 2008)

That was my finding as well about Pro Plan. Try "Innova" or better yet "Great Life". It's difficult to find Great Life, but it's an excellent food if you can get it. They too are a bit pricey, but well worth the extra bucks. Innova is about $48.00 for approx. 34 lbs. Great Life, which I switched to about 4 months ago is $85.00 for 40lbs. If feel our cherished dogs are well worth it.


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## Jim Person (Jan 5, 2003)

for what it's worth, I used to feed pro plan until about 4 years ago when the dogs coats got kinda flat and dry, seemed about the same time they changed formulation and bags. I switched to Canidae and have been nothing but pleased with it. Dogs coats are shiney,skin is good, eyes are nice and bright, no problems with stools,and they all have great energy levels to boot. Used to be $30 a bag just went up to $35 for 40# bag. Jim


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

born2retrieve said:


> Why jump a guy for spelling. I ask my 12 year old how to spell words all the time!! Does that make me a bad dog trainer??


I don’t think anybody said he was a bad dog trainer, but if your going to claim that you have done extensive research and present as some sort of “expert” you might add just a bit of credibility to yourself if you can spell the very thing you are researching.
Just saying regards


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

awesmlab said:


> Honestly, I don't get why any of you feed either Pro Plan or Eukanuba. They are both (most of the formulas) filled with grains and by-products and unnecessary fillers.



Well, I'll bite--I feed PPP for a number of reasons, and also there isn't anything unnecessary in the formula...I would expect the same to be true of Euk. An enormous amount of past and ongoing research results in the formula.

So, why do I feed it? My dogs flourish on it...they have consistently great coats and keep their weight, they love the food, have great muscle tone, energy level, small tidy stools (not loose) they stay healthy and seem to be less injury prone... that's for starters as far as my dogs go...

...Purina supports our dog sports in huge ways...

...and very important to me is the fact that Purina's quality control is exemplary...

AND finally I travel a good bit and can find PPP throughout the country...

...and probably left something out


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## Danny May (Jul 26, 2004)

I am not going to get in the debate over which food is better. I feed Pro Plan Performance to 20 dogs in the kennel. I have tried several other companies food, but Pro Plan works best for me in my kennel. It boils down to works best for yourself and you kennel. It is a lot easier to maintain weight on a dog in a single or two dog homeowner kennel. But there are a lot of different factors that go into feed a dog in a pro kennel environment. Stress is a very big deal in maintain stool quality and proper weight on a dog in a pro kennel where there are some weeks a dog might live on a truck from Thursday at noon until late Sunday night. And these goes on for several months at a time and there are several pros that this happens more weeks than not. And when you go on a summer or winter trip they will live the entire time on a truck or a stake out chain. And in this environment Pro Plan always worked best for me.
If you are having problems with Pro Plan shoot me a pm or call me and I can get you in touch with someone to help you and hope get your problem with Pro Plan resolved.
Danny May


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## Danny May (Jul 26, 2004)

Another problem I see is that look at all the money you put in your dog from buying the puppy, training equipment, entry fees, and all of the gas burned while training or campaigning your dog etc, etc, etc. And someone says I really like that dog food and my dog does great on it but it is just to expensive. So know I am going to try several of these cheaper dog foods; and then your stool quality goes away and you dog stomach gets upset and his performance starts to lack and you have to end up and take him to the vet, to get everything under control. So right there you have a $30 office visit, Pro-bioatic, and Metronitozil (The meds spelling are not correct) so you get out the door $100 lighter, 75 if you are lucky.
A 37.5# or 40# dog will feed a dog for a month
So just for easy math you feed your dog a $40 bag of food
but then you switch to a $25 bag of food.
Yes you do save $15/month... so over an entire year you save $180 not even three entry fees
So I think the food you are feeding is working stick with it, I think you will be ahead in the long run.
DM


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

Vicki,

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

Janet


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Good points Vicky
I was thinking the very same thing last night. Every dog is different and there is no universal fit as far as dog food goes. If your dog does well on Old Roy, feed him Old Roy, if they do better on PPP feed that, if a raw diet works for you great……
What I don’t get is why disparage any food because it does not work for you. Millions of people feed PPP and their success on it is obvious. Additionally, as Vicky points out, Purina is a huge supporter of ALL THINGS DOG! Not just the hunting sports, but every dog sport. Eukanuba (sic?) and several others are also very large supporters of dog sports. They all have a very vested interest in producing the best quality dog food available. Consumers at this level are too smart to be fooled by poser foods. Feed what you like but why title a thread in this fashion? Why not just ask about whatever brand you are looking into feeding rather than soliciting negative feedback on any specific product?


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> Feed what you like but why title a thread in this fashion? Why not just ask about whatever brand you are looking into feeding rather than soliciting negative feedback on any specific product?


 


Because I was wanting to know what is so good about Pro Plan. One of my dogs was having a problem with my feed and I was just trying to find out what to use. Maybe I'm just stupid but from what I have been told over the years PP does not look all that good from the INGREDIENTS list. After all these pages on this thread I dont know anymore than before it started and that is nothing but other peoples opinion. Maybe it doesnt matter what goes into a dog food. Before I got into a higher caliber dogs grocery store food was just fine. Maybe I should feed OL ROY. Sure is cheaper. As for Purina supporting dog sports that is nice and all but that is just advertising and does not sway me one bit. I am leary of all salesmen. Their product is always the best. Race car drivers will use tires, oil, or any other product of who ever wants to sponser them. Hell I'd even drive a Chevy and tell everyone it is the best if they gave it to me for free.;-) Now I'm not saying that is why people here support PP or any other food. Just saying that people in general are sheep and will follow the leader and a good salesman could sell cat food to a dairy farmer. Again I am in no way trying to insinuate any thing about the good people of this board. 
Guess I'll make a trip to Wally World for some OL Roy today. Still


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Hey, question here -- I fed Canidae for 4 1/2 years until I got a free 5 lb bag of ProPlan Performance. My only hesitation was the corn, but unless the dog is allergic to corn, there is no reason why it is is a poor ingredient. Fed it to my dog and he loved it. It is the same price as Canidae so I decided to buy a bag and see how things go. That was about 3 months ago. Fisher has done fabulous on the PPP. I had three people comment to me this weekend, they've never seen him in such coat (we are chasing one last point for his AKC CH . 
My question is -- is there some sort of frequent buyer's program, that you buy so many bags and get one free? Or order in bulk? I just wonder how people feed a kennel full of Pro Plan Performance and afford it. Around here the cost for 40 lbs is anything from $37-$42. 
Thanks...and here's another ringing endorsement of ProPlan!
--Anney
& Fisher too (golden)


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## Ken Archer (Aug 11, 2003)

ProPlan Performance costs $36.99 at Petco. Sign up for their P.A.L.S. promotion and Petco will give you a coupon for one free bag for every 10 bags you buy. $33.29. Buy 200 pounds per order and you get another 10% off. $29.96. Wait and buy it quarterly when they send you a additional 10% off total purchase coupon. $26.96. Save and redeem the weight circles with Purina and you can get another $7.00 off per bag. $19.96. I can't afford not to feed it.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Archer said:


> ProPlan Performance costs $36.99 at Petco. Sign up for their P.A.L.S. promotion and Petco will give you a coupon for one free bag for every 10 bags you buy. $33.29. Buy 200 pounds per order and you get another 10% off. $29.96. Wait and buy it quarterly when they send you a additional 10% off total purchase coupon. $26.96. Save and redeem the weight circles with Purina and you can get another $7.00 off per bag. $19.96. I can't afford not to feed it.


I'm not willing to jump through all those hoops. I feed too many dogs and I most certainly don't have the time to go to petco to get feed.

PPP is a wonderful feed,,,, but is it that much better then any other premium feed??? So the bottom line for me is service from the company and palatability to the dogs. The best company for us right now is Arkat. We've fed the Enhanced Professional athlete for about a year and found that the stool quality was not consistent so we went with their 27/17 Enhanced Endurance formula. That seems to be by far the most agreeable with the majority of the dogs. They also eat it. A dog food can be the best stuff in the world but if my dogs don't eat it what good is it? Also the service to our kennel has been exceptional. We go through a local feed dealer that carries it. Our account was set up through the national rep who has always returned phone calls and has bent over backwards for our business. We couldn't be more pleased with the service. I've fed all the major brands but the Arkat company has worked the hardest to make me and keep me as a customer.

Angie


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Sweet! That's a lot of math but...worx for me 
Thanks!
--Anney


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## Larkin (Feb 4, 2005)

We went through this with a dog who kept throwing up. She wasn't sick. Finally we went to food that had NO CHICKEN in it. End of problem. Did she have a sensitivity to chicken? I don't know. But once we started feeding her a fish-based food the problem stopped. 

We feed Pro-plan in a number of varieties and haven't had a problem with it. My dogs won't eat Eukanuba. (The Euk rep got us a couple of free 40lb. bags, but no dice.) Have to say I was glad to be feeding Purina when the wheat gluten hit the fan. 

Prozyme is a probiotic, there's also a supplement called Probios. You can generally find it through supply catalogs... KV is a good source. You might also try plain full-fat yogurt. Good luck in finding a solution to your pup's woes.


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## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

Steve Shaver said:


> I'm very much sold on the food I'm feeding. However I have one 8 month old that has very loose stools off and on. No problem other than that, looks and acts great. So far over 2 hundred bucks in vet bills to try and fix it. So before I go back to the vet I thought I'd try and switch food.
> For the life of me I dont see what ya'll see in Pro Plan. According to the research I've done on all ingredience Pro Plan is junk. Euk compares more favorably to what I feed but $43 a bag just sucks.



Steve I feed proplan and have some very healthy dogs, perhaps not knowing any better I guess. Can you please present your research comparison where you arrived at that so we could see it. I am doubtful that it's really "junk" but lets see what are comparing it to and why it is junk and what you feed is not. Heck perhaps I need to change.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Buster Brown said:


> Steve I feed proplan and have some very healthy dogs, perhaps not knowing any better I guess. Can you please present your research comparison where you arrived at that so we could see it. I am doubtful that it's really "junk" but lets see what are comparing it to and why it is junk and what you feed is not. Heck perhaps I need to change.


 


I posted a link to something in this thread I believe. Hell I dont know what's good and what's not. I have opinions but plenty of people have opinions to the contrary. I've always felt that dogs are meat eaters and the more meat or meat products the better. Also thought excessive grain especially corn was not good. I post a link to something I thought may be scientific or factual and someone tells me that's old outdated stuff. So like I said this thread is going on 8 pages and it has nothing in it but opinions so I really don't know what to think. All my dogs do well on what I am feeding except this one 10 month old pup that actually does well too except for occaisional loose stools.


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## kghops (Dec 20, 2007)

When my dog has the loose stool going on for more than a day or two my vet told me about hamburger and rice. It may have been covered on here already, but I'll admit, I didn't read this whole thread. 

You boil a pound of hamburger, add in two cups of boiled rice....these are boiled separately and feed the dog it's normal amount. He/she will be solid after that. Sounds weird but it's worked every time. Might not be the answer but others may get some use out of the info.

Keith


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Steve Shaver said:


> I posted a link to something in this thread I believe. Hell I dont know what's good and what's not.


Quote:
*Originally Posted by Steve Shaver* 
Here's where I got some of my info.

http://www.doberdogs.com/foodcht1.html 





Vickie Lamb said:


> There are a number of inaccuracies and incorrect data found on this website. With that thought it mind it indicates there are more. And it hasn't been updated for four years.
> 
> FYI.


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## Grant Wilson (Feb 27, 2008)

Generally when my dog gets loose i cut their food back 50% for a day or two. This usaully works. I used to be a 100% PP performance guy but i just switched to euk last month. I can tell you my dogs like it more. i am switching my pup over now so she's on 50% euk and PPP. She eats around the PP to get to the Euk!


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

Try that again, only switching to PP, in a couple or three months, and see if she doesn't go for the new food then, too...


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## Southern Rebel (Feb 18, 2005)

We have fed PPP for the last 3 years... I recently picked Gator (chessie) up from Mike Hafley, whom has been feeding the Arkat Enhance Professional Athlete. I must say, my dog has never looked better and never had such an excellent coat! He is a show champion as well and I wish he had been on the circuit with this dog food! 

I also have a black lab who gets very dry, flakey skin... I usually give her fish oil supplements. So I am thinking of making the switch to Arkat myself. But I do have trouble maintaining her weight, so I may try a different Arkat formula, besides the Professional Athlete... if anyone has suggestions, I would love to hear them. 

We are also getting a new pup (chessie) next week, so may start her on the puppy formula. 

Mike said there are a number of pros switching to it and he likes it because it really helps keep the weight on the field dogs, esp. during hotter months. 

I am just blown away by the coat condition of my dog... he never looked that good on PPP and fish oil combined! Maybe when I was feeding him eggs, MAYBE.


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## wiseguy (Dec 6, 2007)

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/ - I believe this to be excellent non-biased info.

I feed Canidae.


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

wiseguy said:


> http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/ - I believe this to be excellent non-biased info.


Might as well believe the world is flat. It's loaded with inaccuracies and false assumptions.


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## Southern Rebel (Feb 18, 2005)

Rick Hall said:


> Might as well believe the world is flat. It's loaded with inaccuracies and false assumptions.


I got some ocean front property in Arizona...


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Vickie Lamb said:


> Quote:
> *Originally Posted by Steve Shaver*
> Here's where I got some of my info.
> 
> http://www.doberdogs.com/foodcht1.html


 



So Vickie, I really respect your opinion and knowledge but is there a true and accurate site that tells us what really is good in a feed and what is not????????


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Rick Hall said:


> Might as well believe the world is flat. It's loaded with inaccuracies and false assumptions.


 
OK SO WHAT IS TRUE AND ACCURATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is what I've been trying to get at through 9 stinking pages of this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wiseguy (Dec 6, 2007)

Rick Hall said:


> Might as well believe the world is flat. It's loaded with inaccuracies and false assumptions.


Please enlighten me


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Vickie Lamb said:


> There are a number of inaccuracies and incorrect data found on this website.


I firmly disagree with this statement. I bought the Liz Palika book _The Consumer's Guide to Dog Food: What's in Dog Food, Why It's there and How to Choose the Best Food For Your Dog_ that the website is built on. It is well-researched and the citations are valid and to respectable authorities.

My only criticism is that it is dated. The research is now twelve-years old. However at the same time I have not seen any newer research that make any of its claims invalid.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

AmiableLabs said:


> I firmly disagree with this statement. I bought the Liz Palika book _The Consumer's Guide to Dog Food: What's in Dog Food, Why It's there and How to Choose the Best Food For Your Dog_ that the website is built on. It is well-researched and the citations are valid and to respectable authorities.
> 
> My only criticism is that it is dated. The research is now twelve-years old. However at the same time I have not seen any newer research that make any of its claims invalid.


Well, Kevin, in just five minutes on that site ingredient labels, dog food names and analysis of feeds were found to be misrepresented, for starters. I can't comment on the book; haven't seen it. But the website was riddled with inaccuracies which I cited and provided in a post years ago when I first found them, also to you, I seem to recall. 

Again, I can't comment on the book at this time, only the website. I speak of the entire website, not just "talk" on ingredients, but regarding that, the little comment on beef tallow alone is inaccurate. 

Steve, I'm not aware of an accurate website but if I learn of one I'll let you know; please do the same.

Thanks for reading.


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## DougM (May 5, 2008)

Steve Shaver said:


> OK SO WHAT IS TRUE AND ACCURATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is what I've been trying to gwet at through 9 stinking pages of this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!


Steve, I think the key observation is that there is no consensus on what is "true and accurate" as far as commercially-prepared dry kibble dog foods are concerned. My wife and I have been doing the Food and Nutrition Dance since we got our first golden more than 19 years ago. We've asked thousands of questions to hundreds of people, spent countless hours doing research and web searches, spent many thousands of $$$ on vet bills and such. What we've learned is that people are extremely passionate about what they feed their dogs, but they never agree with each other on the details, and most people just don't have anything other to go by than "I feed _______ to my dogs and they do great on it."

Which is just fine. The bottom line should always be _Feed What Works For YOUR Dogs_. I can tell you a little about what works for us.

Fat content and _accessible_ protein are our primary criteria. A food can list "X% protein" on the label, and while that may be true in a total analysis, the percentage of total protein available via a dog's short intestinal tract may be much lower. Meats and meat meals offer high accessible protein compared to grains/glutens. Same basic idea applies to fats - animal fats are easier for a dog to digest than plant fats.

Based on our experience, ingredients we look for are meats (chicken, lamb, etc.), meat meals (chicken meal, lamb meal, etc.) and other quality protein sources (eggs, fish, etc.). Those ingredients should make up at least the first 3 out of 5 ingredients listed on the label.

Based on our experience, ingredients we look to avoid include soy, corn, wheat, gluten of any kind, by-products, by-product meals, "digests," beet pulp, cellulose (i.e., sawdust), the word "animal" without specifying what _kind_ of animal, etc. Any food that is top-loaded on the ingredients list with grains or junk protein sources is pretty much off our list.

That's where we've come to in our own thinking. As always, YMMV.


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

I looked at the site and was bothered by several factors. 

It says that it bases its reviews strictly on the contents as disclosed on the manufacturer's label for each food. However, it makes assumptions about the quantities of each ingredient even though the quantities are not included in the label. For example, when commenting on ProPlan Performance, the review assumes that after processing that the amount of chicken left in the food is substantially reduced and that it is no longer the number one ingredient. I have no knowledge of whether it is or not.

With other ingredients, it is basing its assessment on undisclosed preferences of one type of ingredient over another. The preferences are not defined or justified. As a result, it is impossible to evaluate the assessments in any systematic way. 

The only evidence of objectivity on the site is the claim made by the authors. Any truly objective assessment of foods would disclose its methodology and the analysis supporting its conclusions. By that standard, the site is not objective even though its authors appear to share some of my own prejudices.

By definition, kibble is a completely processed "food". In human nutrition, all efforts to evaluate food based simply on a reductionist assessment of components (proteins, fats, vitamins, etc) have failed miserably. The best example has been the failure of the food processing industry to ever develop a really good substitute for mother's milk for feeding newborns. 

The fact is that the best foods are those that have been processed the least. Processing tends to remove all of those things we don't understand and our understanding remains limited. I would love to have a better understanding of how best to feed my animals. In the meantime, I feed them ProPlan Performance and they seem to do well. However, when they do have problems, I switch them over to whole foods -- chicken or beef mixed with vegetables and rice -- that I cook myself.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Vickie Lamb said:


> *But the website was riddled with inaccuracies which I cited and provided in a post years ago* when I first found them, also to you, I seem to recall. . . .I speak *of the entire website,* not just "talk" on ingredients, but regarding that, the little comment on beef tallow alone is inaccurate.


Think about it Vickie. First, you are saying that because the list of ingredients of foods from several years ago are now inaccurate, that calls into question all other claims made on the site including the discussions of the ingredients themselves. That is absurd. The reasonable thing to do is to call into question the lists of dog food ingredients because they are so dated, and then let the argument end there.

Second, regarding the beef tallow, at the time you chose to believe Purina, the proponent of the ingredient, in the face of independent studies and all other dog food manufacturers. But since then Purina themselves chose to believe the independent studies (and go along with their competitors) and stop using beef tallow as their fat source in their super-premium formulas like ProPlan Performance.

Finally, the other disagreement you and I had over the site was the claim that listing the wet-weight of an ingredient first on the ingredient list _could be_ misleading. You checked with Purina and they said it was not misleading in their case, and from that you extrapolated, once again, that the site was in error. But that does not dispute the fact of the claim nor does it prove that it is invalid with other foods other than Purina.

As I said, I think it is very reasonable to call into question the site's list of food ingredients and nutritional analyses. However, I know of no newer research that calls into question the discussions of the ingredients themselves. As a matter of fact, I seem to remember they were ahead of the curve calling into question some of the grains like corn and wheat.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Kevin, 

Those ingredients were inaccurate years ago and I called attention to that fact years ago. So that point is moot. That the website is still around without being updated for four years (found in small print) is further misleading because people pull it up and think it's accurate because it's there. 

Second, I've not called anyones comments or views absurd. Unfortunate that you have, and I won't go there.

Third, please don't put words in my mouth or anyone else's (Purina chose to believe) without having basis in fact for the same. 

The statement regarding beef tallow "most dogs have great difficulty in digesting..." is a broad and sweeping generalization not proven in several studies. And of course we never saw the studies where it was supposedly proven, but rather stated. 

And the comment about wet-weight? Well, back then I made it clear that I checked with two companies, not one, those being Purina and Eukanuba, and both adjust in cooking for wet-weight loss so that the ingredient emerges as number one after cooking. THE FACT THAT THE WEBSITE DOESN'T STATE THAT SOME COMPANIES WILL ADJUST FOR THIS IS IN THE END MISLEADING IN THE WAY THEY HAVE WORDED WHAT THEY WROTE. If people don't read really closely they will jump to the wrong conclusion about all companies. In fact, Yardley Labs points out that very thing just a few posts above. 

What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. 

Everyone should feed what works for their dogs. I've never criticized anyone for their choices. And all I've done here is attempt to point out things that make a certain website less than the gospel. If you and/or others choose to believe that it is then so be it. In the end make your own decisions about the food you will feed your dog and be happy with those choices. 

As far as my own dogs and my own choices, after my own considerable research (not just by the book) I've chosen Pro Plan for quite a number of reasons and I'm very happy with that decision and my dogs over the years on PP have shown the same by good health and condition from puppyhood into twilight years and ability and desire to perform in those years as well in various hunting/sporting breeds. 

I'm back to work, and done here. Have a nice day and thanks for reading.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

We currently feed all our crew Purina ProPlan. Some are on Performance, some on Chicken and Rice, one is on ProPlan Select Salmon and Brown Rice because of allergies.

I do not like that Purina is now foreign-owned (I prefer to buy American). I think there are better foods out there (such as Arkat's VF Complete).

However, ProPlan is an excellent food, at an excellent value, is widely available, and support our sports.


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

wiseguy said:


> Please enlighten me


Let's look at PP's 30/20 formula as "reviewed" by dogfoodanalysis vs reality:



> The first ingredient is a named meat product. This is not a meal ingredient, but is inclusive of water content (about 80%). Once that is removed, as it must be to create a dehydrated product, the ingredient will weigh around 20% of its wet weight. Ingredients are listed in order of weight, and the dehydrated ingredient would probably be more accurately placed much further down the ingredient list. It is unlikely that this ingredient makes any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food. The main meat ingredient in this food is in fact poultry by-product meal.


While AFTCA labeling regulations might allow that to be the case, PP's "chicken" is *not* listed by preprocessing weight, but by post processing "as fed" weight. Making the above statement a false one.



> It is impossible to ascertain the quality of by-products and these are usually products that are of such low quality as to be rejected for use in the human food chain, or else are those parts that have so little value that they cannot be used elsewhere in either the human or pet food industries. The AAFCO definition of poultry by-product meal is “a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.” Unable to be identified even by species or source, it is a very low quality ingredient. This is the 5th ingredient, making it unlikely that there is any significant meat content in the food at all, but rather it is primarily a collection of grains.


The notion that by-products are "a very low quality ingredient" because they're not something you or I would want to eat is laughable. And the assumption that it is "unlikely that there is any significant meat content in the food at all" is, again, flatly false.



> The main grains, and main ingredients, in the food are corn and brewers ricet. Corn is a difficult to digest grain of limited value in dog food. It is also commonly associated with allergy problems. Corn gluten meal it is that part of the commercial shelled corn that remains after the extraction of the larger portion of the starch, gluten, and term by the processes employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup. In plain English, the remains of corn after most of the nutritious bits have been removed. Brewers rice is a low quality grain and byproduct. Corn bran is a grain fragment and further filler.


*I am not a canine nutritionist*, but I've seen more than one of them denounce corn phobias. The outside shell of a grain of corn is hard to digest, ground corn is not. Nor are corn allergies remotely so prevalent as worry over them. And corn gluten, if I'm not mistaken, is actually a highly usable protein source. (Which I suppose might bother those inexplicably insistent that all their dog's usable protein come from meat.) Brewers' rice is nothing more or less than rice that is broken too fine for use in most human consumption other than brewing. 



> Animal fat is an ingredient of unidentified origin for which it is impossible to determine species, source or quality. Unidentified ingredients are usually very low quality.


Had they asked PP, as I did, they would have learned that the "animal fat" used in each formula is that of its primary protein source, IE: chicken fat (one I believe DFA's netspurt approves of) in PP's 30/20.


Not really sure why I took the time and trouble to put that together, as most are gonna go with what sounds good to them, rather than what's actually out there doing the work. (One of my favorite examples being the aversion to "animal digest," the official definition of which sounds like it might be acid-rendered road kill, but which boils down to, pun intended, natural flavoring.) Feed what you feel your dogs do best on - or what makes you feel best. Makes no never-mind to me and mine. We've tried a mess of 'em, without vested interest other than how they help my guys pull a heavy, real-world workload, and been most satisfied with that nasty stuff above. Your mileage may vary.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Nice Rick, thanks for taking the time


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

My dog food criteria and results:

Can I afford it? - Yes
Is it less $/lb than people food? - Yes
Can I buy it on the road when I forgot to pack it? - Yes
Do the dogs eat it? - Yes
Are their coats ok? - Yes
Do they 'boink' during a lot of work? - No
Are their stools good? Yes
And if you don't believe #7, send me a SASE for proof.

ml


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

2-Dogs said:


> [*]Are their stools good? Yes[/LIST]And if you don't believe #7, send me a SASE for proof.
> 
> ml


Why didn't I think of that when the subject came up a while back, instead of having to explain to the neighbors that I was illustrating a Poopology thesis to get these examples from a 38lb Brittany:










and a 66lb Chesapeake:










To the true Poopologist, there's little so beautiful as a classic "Tootsie-Roll turd".


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

I prefer to feed my to little girls whatever I don't finish after I quit eating. The wife made some rancid chocolate bars the other day and I could only finish one, so into the girls bowls it went. They loved it. Looked pretty much the same coming out! They usually like to finish it up with a glass of wine or two.

Feeding Eagle Pack regards,
Scott


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

I think someone finally said on page 8 when they see diarrhea, they cut back on the dog's food. I find this works on my dogs too. I have 3 males that will loose weight with 5 days of hard training, so I try to feed them more volume but volume causes loose stools so I have to avoid that logic. Reducing food volume makes for more solid stools.

I have also found that the Purina FortiFlora works well when added to the food daily. It contains active bacteria cultures specifically selected for canines. It will help restore good digestive bacteria. You can find it at Entirely Pets website.

So I would suggest you pick & stay with a premium food, switching can be part of the problem too. But if you want to try a NO grain food (thinking too much grain is the problem), then look at Nature's Variety Instinct kibbles, they are all high protein & grain free. But with any food give it 90-120 days to determine if it works. I have found my dogs love these feeds when I have used them to rule out food allergies.

I also use two pills that seem to help reduce stress diarrhea when I''m on the road with the dogs. One is a canine probiotic called Gastriplex from Thorne Veterinary (much like the FortiFlora) & the other is a botanical formula that will relax an irrated digestive tract, Para-Gard from Integrative Therapeutics (BTW, it works well for humans too).

Most important, I would control the pup's access to feces by airing the pup where no other dogs are aired or by diligently picking up any poop before you air the pup.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Good post David and I totally agree.... Now how can I pick up poop at light speed when airing 18 young dogs that are stressed??? Poop djour is mighty fine.....

Poop in Poop out regards,,,,

Angie


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Angie, in your case, you'll need a little help. I'm betting with your training routine, you do most of your airing outside of your airing yard anyway so there is little exposure. Since I don't have the help, I don't even air in the airing yard most time except for the late night airing when there's usually no poop. Rather I air the dogs (6 of them for me) in the field in front of my house for all at home airings except the last one before bedtime. Seems I have a little night help from the kritters (probably possums)in the field too, good sunlight area & a nice sloop away from the house. I've just seen poop-eaters made by constant exposure in small airing yards, so I try to avoid such exposure when I can.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

No,,, you thought wrong David. Young, untrained dogs need fences. Especially if you have many, many young untrained dogs....

A buggy whip in one hand and pooper scooper in the other.....

Angie


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Such is the life of a young dog trainer. I get those young dogs one at a time - and it's more than enough for me. I have to say, I really appreciate those like you who can effectively handle a large group of young dogs. It takes a special person to do it effectively.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> Such is the life of a young dog trainer. I get those young dogs one at a time - and it's more than enough for me. I have to say, I really appreciate those like you who can effectively handle a large group of young dogs. It takes a special person to do it effectively.


Well I like to think I'm effective,,, but evidently not effective enough...

Angie


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## JDogger (Feb 2, 2003)

I didn't wade through all the pages of this thread. What I've found after close to twenty years of feeding Labs though, is this;
1. Feed what your dog likes, and thrives on. 
2. When you clean up, look for solid well formed stools. 
3. If the cost of a sack of food is your main concern... find another hobby... raising, training, feeding, and competing dogs ain't never gonna be cheap.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

JDogger said:


> I didn't wade through all the pages of this thread. What I've found after close to twenty years of feeding Labs though, is this;
> 1. Feed what your dog likes, and thrives on.
> 2. When you clean up, look for solid well formed stools.
> 3. If the cost of a sack of food is your main concern... find another hobby... raising, training, feeding, and competing dogs ain't never gonna be cheap.


I've got to go there. After 30 years of feeding different types of dog food I have found that many end up causing little problems after being fed for a long time. I have always come back to Euk. The only exception is Eagle where the product would be out of stock too often and they made the bags smaller and charged the same. I can get Euk delivered on a breeders program for less than many of the high premium foods which contain a lot of people satisfying ingredients but cause some major loose stools. One ingredient that has been slammed is beet pulp. I can remember an old livestock feed guy that said you need some bulk and fiber in a recipe. Euk stools are a big reason I went back because I got sick of the high premium semi-liquid poops. My dogs do well on it and have good coats plus Euk also participates in research and sponsors our sport. I can also switch formulas in Euk without any problems if I run low. If I find one with funky stools, I now use Forti-Flora. The one thing I have heard about Euk is it causes stool consumption, although I have not seen that happen personally.


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## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

I like Proplan so well my wife and I eat it for breakfast lunch and dinner...it tastes like chicken. :razz:

In fact we have an ice cream maker that we grind up proplan in to and make proplan ice cream cones. I am getting worried though because we have to keep upping our dosage I'm affraid we may be becoming proplan junkies.

Somebody stop me please before I do proplan again!


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## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

Steve Shaver this has gotten so far out of hand it has a life of it's own. look at the monster you have created.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Buster Brown said:


> Steve Shaver this has gotten so far out of hand it has a life of it's own. look at the monster you have created.


 

:-x


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