# Puppy with an Overbite



## Teeroy (Jul 14, 2008)

I am going to be picking up a new pup this Wed, and I was just made aware that he has a slight overbite. Is this a problem, or should I be very concerned with this? The breeder is going to take the pup to the vet to find out how serious this is before I pick him up. 

The only reason she noticed this is because she has raised show dogs to champion status and knows to look for it. She said it is a deduction for showing if they have an overbite. I'm guessing I would have never noticed this myself. 

I'm just wondering if this is normal or what kind of problems can arise from this. The pup is 47 days old today!!

Thanks for any help or info you can offer.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

It really depends on the overbite. 

Actually, in the show ring, they should have a scissor bite. A level bite is a minor fault, an overbite I believe is a disqualification.

If the puppy does not have canines that line up properly, I would not buy the pup. If the canines are place correctly, then depending on how far off the bit is I might or might not purchase the pup. I have had a couple of slight overbites correct themselves once the permanent teeth come in.

If the canines are misaligned, not likely it will ever correct plus you may run into other issues if the canines line up to the roof of the mouth.

WRL


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Are you planning to show the pup? If yes, I wouldn't buy it. If the overbite isn't serious and the pup will be a pet/hunting companion, then I would take the pup without a second thought. If the overbite is serious (parrot mouth), you might have to worry about the canines. I have a 3 year old with a very serious overbite. _ To look at her, you wouldn't notice it. She has no trouble eating or retrieving. _ Open her mouth and you notice right away that she has a messed up mouth. The bottom canines actually grew in crooked so that they didn't pose a problem with the roof of her mouth.
This dog is a wonderful retriever and has trained wonderfully, so I truly haven't cared about her bite. Just disappointed that she couldn't be bred.


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## runnindawgz (Oct 3, 2007)

I had purcahsed a pup with an overbite (knowlingly) thinking - "no big deal retrieveing is NOT a fashion show" ... however the small over bite which was noticable at 8 weeks turned out to be a major birth defect and as she grew her bottom mandible did not keep up with her upper (both in width and depth). Luckily, the breeders were awesome and worked with me to come to an agreement about the pup (who ended up needing 2 canines removed and BRACES)..... I know this was probably the extreme and I would usually say an over bite is no beig deal - but just make sure you trust your breeder in case its a bigger issue than you anticipate.


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## runnindawgz (Oct 3, 2007)

Last Frontier - I have never heard the term PARROT MOUTH. Is this common? I assume this was the case with my pup - can you tell me more about it? Thanks.


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

We had a Samoyed that had a serious overbite. His top jaw was perfectly fine. His bottom jaw was 3 inches shorter than his top, he had a double row of teeth in the front on the bottom, and his tongue was twice as long as is normal! His tongue always hung out the side of his mouth about 2 inches, he drooled, and even though his top was formed correctly the roof of his mouth was a lot lower than it should've been. He was able to eat but it took him awhile. The worst thing you could do to the guy was drop what you were feeding him because he couldn't pick it back up especially if it was flat! He kept his weight fine and usually got a larger kibble to help him. However he was never quite right. It was like he beat before he was born because neurologically he wasn't all there. He knew his commands but he was always skittish, was terrifed of kids. But he was a goofball! Really cute when he picked up his ball! He was 3 when we lost him last year. I am not sure what happened to him but I am sure it had something to do with everything that was wrong with him. He was kinda down and out for a couple days and then the next morning he was gone. Maybe that will help you figure some things out about the pup. Granted it is probably a better breeding and better quality dogs but if he spends alot of time laying down when you see him, that was how Laredo was. Hope it helps and if not well then I rambled quite abit!! Good Luck!


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## goldust (May 12, 2005)

Overbite - Parrot mouth - undershot - wry are problems with the way the jaws grew. Most of the time it is inherited but can be cause by trauma. It has nothing to to do with a dog "not being right". They can do their jobs just fine. You would not want to breed a dog with this, but then again the pup should be sold on a limited registration anyway. 

If the parrot mouth is very extreme you may need to have a couple of teeth pulled. Again, this will not affect the dogs drive, intelligence or desire. They can still run like the wind, find and pick up birds, and take your hand signals just fine.


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## TANK (Oct 25, 2007)

I wouldn't want it. Due to not being able to breed the dog. But if it's just a family pet or meat dog I would think it would be fine. May even get a deal from the breeder.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> The only reason she noticed this is because she has raised show dogs to champion status and knows to look for it.


Everyone that breeds a litter can look for it-open the mouth. This statement sounds weird to me. An Overbite or Parrot mouth are inherited and the dog should not be bred. It is true some get better, some stay the same, but some get worse because it has to do with the lower jaw being shorter. If you are not intending on breeding it might be fine but most breeders reduce the price and should sell on limited registration.


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## Teeroy (Jul 14, 2008)

His overbite ended up being about a 1/4 inch. The pup was taken to the breeders vet and they did not feel it would be a problem and it will hopefully get better, however, they feel he will always have a overbite. My concern is that his lower canines teeth are inline or just behind his top canines and inside them. It looks like they go up into his top gums. My vet said something that he has seen dogs that they get little holes where their bottom teeth line up with their gums. Has anyone run into this before (holes in the roof of mouth)? If so is it anything to be concerned with? Thanks


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Teeroy said:


> His overbite ended up being about a 1/4 inch. The pup was taken to the breeders vet and they did not feel it would be a problem and it will hopefully get better, however, they feel he will always have a overbite. My concern is that his lower canines teeth are inline or just behind his top canines and inside them. It looks like they go up into his top gums. My vet said something that he has seen dogs that they get little holes where their bottom teeth line up with their gums. Has anyone run into this before (holes in the roof of mouth)? If so is it anything to be concerned with? Thanks


Yes, the canines might have to be pulled. That is the problem with the overbite. I'm guessing this breeder is well aware of the problem because she has had it before and she is trying to minimize it. When I had one with I remember a little over 1/4 inch many years ago he had to have teeth pulled. The pup was sold as a pet with no papers and very reasonably.


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

I think I would pass on that whole litter. Picking up a healthy pup is the cheapest way to have low DVM bills later on. I would hate to have trained a dog and have something that shouldn't have been a problem become a very expensive one late in the game. There are plenty of great dogs out there for sale pretty darn cheap right now without this problem.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> Yes, the canines might have to be pulled. That is the problem with the overbite. I'm guessing this breeder is well aware of the problem because she has had it before and she is trying to minimize it. When I had one with I remember a little over 1/4 inch many years ago he had to have teeth pulled. The pup was sold as a pet with no papers and very reasonably.



I agree with Nancy. Also, have had problems where the adult canines poke holes in the roof of the mouth causing sinus infections.

I would think this breeder should give you the dog.

WRL


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## Teeroy (Jul 14, 2008)

He has a clear bill of health except for the overbite. He seems like a wonderful pup and seems very intellegent and has a great demeanor. I'm not interested in giving him back, just trying to get information as to what the holes in the roof of his mouth can cause, other than the holes themselves. Do they tend to get infected, etc.? Or if there is something we can do early to ward off any future problems, again other than giving him back. 

I have to believe there are many dogs out there with this problem that are doing just fine!! Thanks for the info!!


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Teeroy said:


> He has a clear bill of health except for the overbite. He seems like a wonderful pup and seems very intellegent and has a great demeanor. I'm not interested in giving him back, just trying to get information as to what the holes in the roof of his mouth can cause, other than the holes themselves. Do they tend to get infected, etc.? Or if there is something we can do early to ward off any future problems, again other than giving him back.
> 
> I have to believe there are many dogs out there with this problem that are doing just fine!! Thanks for the info!!


My point in stating you should be given this puppy, is that it could cost you significant vet bills in the future.

Right now, as you have described, I'd have the canines pulled. Hopefully, you will not have any issues until the permanent teeth come in.

WRL


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

I have a friend with a pup with an overbite. They ground down her canines so that they would not poke the roof of her mouth.


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## Teeroy (Jul 14, 2008)

That is exactly what I was thinking. I have had a couple teeth ground a bit where my bite comes together and it was really not a big deal. I know my 10 year old lab has broken all his canines through years of hunting and fetching a hundred miles an hour while picking up sticks and never slowing down. 

Thanks for input, that's what I'm looking for. 

Did I mention how nice the pup, and the how wonderful the breeder has been to deal with as well. They could have never said anything about this and I would have never known a thing. She is a great lady and I would without a doubt buy another pup from her in the future. I have never met someone who cares so much for their dogs. I love the fact that she cared as much about who I am and my background with dogs as I cared about her as a breeder. Great experience to date!!


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## Larkin (Feb 4, 2005)

Um, folks.... the puppy is 47 days old. Mouthes can and do change. In fact, a perfect bite can go off and an off bite can align itself. It all depends on degrees. An extreme parrot mouth would be pretty obvious. If the vet is well-versed in structural development, he can give some estimation about the puppy's condition. But then again, it is only an estimation. 

I know of an accidental litter (this is Foxhounds) where the father was parrot mouthed: 12 puppies, all had perfect bites at 10 weeks. Those that the breeder kept up with continued to have normal, correct bites for their entire lives. 

My mentor in the Foxhound world had an absolutely gorgeous 8-month old male whose bite was an had been significantly off. She had made arrangements for him to go to a running pen and the day she was about to send him, she went over him one more time and his bite was normal. I saw this dog myself both when the bite was off and later, when it was correct. That was unusual enough for continued comment, but the dog didn't go to the running pen and instead went on for a successful career in the show ring, finishing easily and winning numerous group placements. 

If it were me and the overbite was minor (_which it isn't_), I would take the puppy, particularly given its age, as these situations do change. 

P.S. Teeroy, I just saw your last post. Quarter of an inch is a significant overbite, given how tiny the mouths are at seven weeks, particularly if the canines are inside the maxillae. If you proceed, do so with caution. Is there another puppy available in the litter?


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Teeroy said:


> I have to believe there are many dogs out there with this problem that are doing just fine!! Thanks for the info!!


I have seen 2. I produced them both. I kept one who is a great dog. The other I gave away for the costs of the pup's vaccines. The vet xrayed the dog I kept as he believed the problem to be caused by trauma. He examined the xrays and told me that he did believe it was caused by trauma, but soon after, I produced the other pup. After seeing pup # 2, we agreed it must be genetic.
Neither dog has needed special care. In both cases, the teeth have misaligned themselves so as not to cause any issues for the dog. You can't tell either dog has an overbite until you lift their jowls.

Twinkie's nick name is "gnarfie". This name came about when my daughters started calling her overbite a "gnarf". 

As for picking pups without medical problems, I would much prefer to use a breeder who has been open and honest about a particular problem than someone who chose to cover up problems. I consider myself to use the utmost care (sometimes overly so) when picking stud dogs to use for breeding... Any breeder will tell you things happen and issues will pop up.

I will try to take some pics of Twinkie's gnarf tonight. I have some pics of dog #2's overbite as a pup and will post those as well. Hopefully, this will provide the board with information on "Brachygnathism" which is the scientific name of the condition.


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