# ANY SUGGESTIONS-Total Retriever Training/Marking tapes



## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

Are the "Total Retriever Training" & "Total Retriever Marking" (by M. Lardy) tapes/manuals helpful? My dog has already passed several MH & Finished tests with ease & I want to start FTs this Fall. I would like to buy one of these sets of training aids if it is helpful, but most of these types of tapes/manuals that I have bought in the past are very basic & don't help at all. 
So I guess the question is: *Can these tapes provide valuable training methods/scenarios for a retriever that is well beyond the basics & already handles/marks extremely well?* I want to buy some material that will help me to provide an advanced dog with *challenging situations/setups & to know how to correct small behavioral problems* that inevitably develop. I know that Lardy is one of the finest handlers in the game, but just want to make sure that these tapes are worth it before I sink $139 into them.

If these tapes are just "ok" for training advanced dogs, please vote for the "don't buy them" option as I would appreciate not wasting the money. If that is the case & thse are just "ok," does anyone have a suggestion regarding great material on training/maintaining advanced dogs?

PLEASE reply with some insight regarding these tapes!


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2007)

*Re: Total Retriever Training/Marking tapes*



dixiedog said:


> Are the "Total Retriever Training" & "Total Retriever Marking" (by M. Lardy) tapes/manuals helpful? My dog has already passed several MH & Finished tests with ease & I want to start FTs this Fall. I would like to buy one of these sets of training aids if it is helpful, but most of these types of tapes/manuals that I have bought in the past are very basic & don't help at all.
> So I guess the question is: *Can these tapes provide valuable training methods/scenarios for a retriever that is well beyond the basics & already handles/marks extremely well?* I want to buy some material that will help me to provide an advanced dog with *challenging situations/setups & to know how to correct small behavioral problems* that inevitably develop. I know that Lardy is one of the finest handlers in the game, but just want to make sure that these tapes are worth it before I sink $139 into them.
> 
> PLEASE reply with some insight regarding these tapes!


They're my personal favorite, but if your dog wasn't trained using his program, the corrections and training style may not work with your dog. It's about an entire program -- hence "totalretriever" -- and not just scenarios and problem-solving. And whatever is on there is provided based on the dog having been trained through the program and understanding what's presented to it.

I wouldn't trade mine for the world... But parts of it MAY not work for dogs who have already been through a different program. I would say to get the marking tapes in your situation because it's more about teaching concepts... There are corrections, but you can probably benefit more from them. The training set is the "program" and this may or may not be useful to you...

-K


----------



## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

Basically, I want something that will help me with issues such as perfecting angled water entries, etc. & don't want to pay for basic stuff at this point. 

From your post, it sounds like these may be good tapes to buy for my next puppy (& get him/her/it on this program). So you think that the TRT tape won't work if a dog has come from a different type of program? 
Does the marking tape teach pretty advanced topics that will help me get ready for FTs/HTs?

Thank you very much for your reply


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2007)

dixiedog said:


> Basically, I want something that will help me with issues such as perfecting angled water entries, etc. & don't want to pay for basic stuff at this point.
> 
> From your post, it sounds like these may be good tapes to buy for my next puppy (& get him/her/it on this program). So you think that the TRT tape won't work if a dog has come from a different type of program?
> Does the marking tape teach pretty advanced topics that will help me get ready for FTs/HTs?
> ...


The TRT tapes are the entire training program. If your dog is already running marks and blinds, it would technically be past the first two portions (basic, transition) as far as where you would at least try to pick up. My only concern would be -- keep in mind I'm really really anal and relatively a stickler, somewhat close-minded about swapping programs -- is that there are specific sequences introducing things like pressure, momentum to literal casting, good manners and attitude around water, etc. etc. These things are built from very early in the program.

An angle entry is "just" another version of cheating singles. I'd buy all of it... LOL But if I had to pick one... I'd say you might get the biggest bang from the marking set. 

-K


----------



## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

*Running the dog*

The thing I like about them is that Mike or Dave is running the retriever.Most of the others Ive seen have been attendees of a seminar running thier dog ,and the pro helping only with problems and such.Mike is also a very good communicator,and the tapes are well done.

Two thumbs up....and a snap,snap BACK


----------



## Jason Ferris (Feb 23, 2004)

I seem to recall a rumor here that the Total Retriever Training DVDs were being updated. Is that true?

Regards, Jason.


----------



## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

dixiedog said:


> Basically, I want something that will help me with issues such as perfecting angled water entries, etc. & don't want to pay for basic stuff at this point.
> 
> .....Does the marking tape teach pretty advanced topics that will help me get ready for FTs/HTs?....


Actually this skill is taught in basics & transition for most FT dogs. If your dog needs better lining skills even the basics & transition tapes will help build a proper foundation to progress with this skill.

Having trained dogs to be successful at HTs has shown it can transfer to running FTs successfully with the proper training foundation & talent in the dog for some people. That said, training directed to success in FTs from the beginning at the derby/Q level has shown to be the more prevalent path to success. The games are different, requiring an emphasis on different skills. HTs clearly require a higher level of line control, while lining skill, marking & handling are all challenged by the distance & tightness & factors of the marks & blinds in FTs. So the skill set that has been OK for HT success can now be deficient when exposed to FT setups. 

The better path might be to review the *basics *tape because it is building a foundation to *transition *to *advanced *work needed for consistency in FTs. Improving needed skills along the way.

BTW, I had a good hunting dog that I thought had excellent marking skils until I began running marks progressively out to 300yds+. And above all, a high level of marking skill is required for success at the AA level.


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2007)

Granddaddy said:


> dixiedog said:
> 
> 
> > Basically, I want something that will help me with issues such as perfecting angled water entries, etc. & don't want to pay for basic stuff at this point.
> ...


my comment regarding basics/transition was related to the TRAINING, not MARKING, set of tapes. The basic TRAINING tapes are pretty much all about the program of FF through double T - that wouldn't be of much benefit to this dog. Same thing with transition being stuff that this dog probably already had, albeit in a possibly different manner. All three sets of marking tapes could be beneficial because he can watch how the marking skills are built from the ground up. But I don't see any use in his watching force to pile or the double T.... That's what you'll get on the training tapes. The transition training tape could be of some benefit, but it just depends on where the dog's at and what it understands as far as advanced concepts.

-K 

ps -- however... if any issues crop up, some of the basics are where you return to. I usually tell people to buy it all... LOL


----------



## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Lardy's DVDs have something useful for anybody -- even if not exactly the "program" you follow re: training -- even the collar conditioning DVD is useful -- must have for any trainer's library


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

No, don't buy them. Not worth it. Go with Wolters stuff. What does Lardy know anyway? I'd much rather run against the best and you have to use the best to get there. There's a reason Wolters sold all those books, the deeper meaning is in there, they key is meditating until you find it.

/paul


----------



## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

Both sets of Lardy's video's are great resources, but as Kristie said, the success is in adopting and applying the entire program. I think they definitely deserve a spot in any library of retriever training materials.

With that being said, for the issues you're dealing with, you may be better off asking a repected pro for some training consultation sessions. A cookie cutter approach doesn't always work for every dog. A pro would have the opportunity to watch you and your dog work, develop an understanding of how you've trained, identify any holes in your program and make suggestions to help you correct the issues and move on.

Videos and books are great, but there's nothing like an experienced person to assess the issues and prescribe a cure.


----------



## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: Total Retriever Training/Marking tapes*



dixiedog said:


> So I guess the question is: *Can these tapes provide valuable training methods/scenarios for a retriever that is well beyond the basics & already handles/marks extremely well?* I want to buy some material that will help me to provide an advanced dog with *challenging situations/setups & to know how to correct small behavioral problems* that inevitably develop.


My guess is, it would depend on if you are a type I, type II, or type III trainer. If you are a type II, don't waste your money. :shock:


----------



## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> No, don't buy them. Not worth it. Go with Wolters stuff. What does Lardy know anyway? I'd much rather run against the best and you have to use the best to get there. There's a reason Wolters sold all those books, the deeper meaning is in there, they key is meditating until you find it.
> 
> /paul


Deep meditation required..........


----------



## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

> No, don't buy them. Not worth it. Go with Wolters stuff. What does Lardy know anyway? I'd much rather run against the best and you have to use the best to get there. There's a reason Wolters sold all those books, the deeper meaning is in there, they key is meditating until you find it.



Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin gun_dog. 

What do you mean by "I'd rather use the best and you have to use the best to get there?"


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

dixiedog said:


> > No, don't buy them. Not worth it. Go with Wolters stuff. What does Lardy know anyway? I'd much rather run against the best and you have to use the best to get there. There's a reason Wolters sold all those books, the deeper meaning is in there, they key is meditating until you find it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, you opened up my pic floodgates on the sarcasm aspect. To answer the other, if you want to run at your best you need to use the best methods. Train smarter. Lardy said at his seminar,


> "is the dog learning because you train a lot or train efficiently? Is your dog learning because of you, or in spite of you? Some dogs will just eventually learn it because you do it so often they figure it out. Really though, how good will they be?


Only you as a trainer can make that determination. Study and meditate on both training methods and decide which method you want to use. Personally, I'd rather run againt people who use Wolters methods, but thats because I really like to win. But I'm wierd that way.


































/Paul


----------



## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

"Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin", from Anger Management. I just said it because I think it's funny & that was a good time for it. Anyway, moving on...

Why do you prefer Lardy's method over Wolter's? I know it likely comes down to personal preference, but what is your reasoning here? I do not know enough to comment on either method & am just waondering if there are any pros &/cons to either method.


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

dixiedog said:


> "Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin", from Anger Management. I just said it because I think it's funny & that was a good time for it. Anyway, moving on...
> 
> Why do you prefer Lardy's method over Wolter's? I know it likely comes down to personal preference, but what is your reasoning here? I do not know enough to comment on either method & am just waondering if there are any pros &/cons to either method.


I like Lardy's methods because it logical, consistent and based on a teaching the dogs skilled coupled with extremely fair correction methodolgies.

/Paul


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

dixiedog said:


> ..... My dog has already passed several MH & Finished tests with ease & *I want to start FTs this Fall.*
> 
> (snip)
> 
> ..... but just want to make sure that these tapes are worth it before I sink $139 into them.


If you're worried about dropping 139 bucks, maybe you should rethink getting into FTs. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Read everything you can find. :wink: 

JS


----------



## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

Not worried about it JS, but there's no reason to buy something that just sits on the shelf at home. 

I'm just looking for a way to avoid running to my trainer everytime a problem develops.


----------



## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

dixiedog said:


> Not worried about it JS, but there's no reason to buy something that just sits on the shelf at home.
> 
> I'm just looking for a way to avoid running to my trainer everytime a problem develops.


I'm pretty sure he's updating them, so I'd wait a little while unless you get a good deal on them. Sorry Mike and YBS.


----------



## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

I found the Total Retriever Training DVDs & Manual on Ebay for $80, thanks everyone for the input!


----------

