# Want to blow a HT dogs mind? Take him hunting



## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Took My friends SH- almost MH dog out hunting, he had never been. It was probably one of the funnest experience I have had this year. Good Shooting and a 1.5 year fully trained dog, out in the blind that had never seen a wild duck. 

Talk about culture shock, We had that pups mind spinning by the end of the day. So things a dog learns on his first hunting experience. :shock::shock::shock:

1.Did you know birds come out of the air and just appear in ponds, with no quacks. 
2.Did you know not all ducks are mallards, some are pretty small and some can dive all over creation, and you're expected to find them. 
3.Did you know that a dog is suppose to sit in a hut and be quite, and still mark birds, that just appear, then get back in the hut? 
4.Did you know that guns go off, and if you look at the direction they point you can get an idea of where birds are going to land, but if you don't, you run ~100yrds in the wrong direction out of the wrong side of the hut? 
5.Did you know that birds can fall right on your head and you must retreat to the hut for your own protection? 
6.Sometimes duck calls and shooting go off but there are no birds, and then you get in trouble for being out in the pond? 
7.Did you know that blind retrieves can move, and your still expected to hunt and find them once you get out into the area!!!?? 
8. Decoys are not birds but there are alot of them and they are very scary, some even move around, squirt water and splash. Watch out for the big white ones.

So many new things and contradictions to training/testing, still at about mid-day he had become semi-passable. The hardest concept was that birds come from the sky, not out of stations; and that they can land in any direction, even backwards.  All that training did give us at least a base to work off of, I'd hate to think what we would of have done, if he could not handle. Me muck through ponds (yuck)!!?. We did have to give up a few clusters of teal to complete his first _real_ big-boy blind retrieve, ~150yrd, it landed in some brush, and wasn't completely incapacitated, This was the one he had already ran 100yrs. in the wrong direction-wrong pond even to retrieve. When he finally found it you could see the lights going off in his head. This was also the first dog I've ever seen sit to flush on a crippled duck, that might be useful. Taking him out next week, we're gonna have to find him a seasoned dog to hunt with see if we can get him to watch for birds.


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Remember all this next time someone makes fun of your buddy's "meat" dog. LOL. It ain't ever pretty, but they will pick em up.


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

The good news is a _smart_ dog, which a good HT dog should be, can pick up on all these things in just a few hunts. HTs are not hunting, they are a tool to test some of the skills needed for hunting.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

That was great. Must have been fun for everyone, especially the dog.


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

Easy now!
It takes experience. my female acted like an idiot on her first duck hunt and like a pro on the second.
She started her heat ( or bleeding 2 days after the first hunt)
Second duck hunt she is watching the sky for birds. 
It took my male longer to get it figured out.
Experience!!!!


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## Loddog (Jan 6, 2012)

This is a great post and a good point that's been taking up some of my brain cycles lately. Does anyone know of any forums as seriously dedicated to hunting training as this one is to trial training? There's tons of good info here and I've learned a ton before I even submitted my first post a few days ago, but I have literally zero interest in field trials. 

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way... I may just be too amateur to realize I have all I need here. I haven't found any forums around near as good as this one, though, I must say. Nice, knowledgeable folks.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Loddog said:


> I have literally zero interest in field trials.


so do the vast majority of the people who post here, you'll feel right at home


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

Loddog said:


> This is a great post and a good point that's been taking up some of my brain cycles lately. Does anyone know of any forums as seriously dedicated to hunting training as this one is to trial training? There's tons of good info here and I've learned a ton before I even submitted my first post a few days ago, but I have literally zero interest in field trials.
> 
> I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way... I may just be too amateur to realize I have all I need here. I haven't found any forums around near as good as this one, though, I must say. Nice, knowledgeable folks.


I tnink what alot of people dont understand is the fact that the basic training and transition training for a hun test dog, field trial dawg, or meat dawg, is basicly the same. And the dogs will have the tools, just need experience.
You could probably take a FC dog on his first hunt and it may blow his mind, but I would bet after a time or two he would figure it out.
I dont know why people think test dogs are not hunting dogs. Its just something we do in the off time, and some people dont hunt.
I hunted with a guy a couple weeks ago and didnt think he could hunt because he has one arm, but he showed me, he wore my but out. He didnt know why we run hunt test and train alot, but he was impressed when I ran about 5 or 6 back to back blinds picking up birds at the end of a hunt. That his hunting dawg wouldnt pick up.
And I forgot, my hunt test dawgs have picked up alot of real birds and cripples in the past few weaks and sometimes they will dive under water chasing them, and we get to hunt all year long
Experience!!!!
Just my opinion,
Thanks, Brad


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

> That was great. Must have been fun for everyone, especially the dog.


"I agree."........was too brief to submit a post.


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

Brad,

I couldn't agree with you more. Years ago I took one of my dogs hunting for the first time with 4 guys and we were hunting in pit blinds with him sitting beside me. To watch him scanning the flat water to find the wingers just before shooting time to watching the sky by mid morning was a wonderful sight. One of the guys had brought his dog just in case my dog couldn't do the work. He said "just because he is a hunt test dog doesn't mean he can hunt." His dog didn't get off the truck. I was told by two others that I could come hunting with them anytime, as long as I brought my dog with me.

Janet


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## Larry Thompson1 (Apr 19, 2011)

I have literally zero interest in field trials.

Thats what I first thought. Darn shouldn't have went to a FT could have saved a ton of money.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

ltrollin said:


> I have literally zero interest in field trials.
> 
> Thats what I first thought. Darn shouldn't have went to a FT could have saved a ton of money.


Me too...


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

It's even more fun to take a really talented waterfowl dog that has won derbys, has an HRCH, and does a ton of waterfowl hunting....and then add upland a few years later. The first time he encountered birds coming up out of the grass, he was like "What??? This is so wrong....birds come out of the sky, not out of the ground." Of course, he figured it out fast after that, but the initial reaction was hilarious.


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## Loddog (Jan 6, 2012)

ltrollin said:


> I have literally zero interest in field trials.
> 
> Thats what I first thought. Darn shouldn't have went to a FT could have saved a ton of money.


LOL, the more I get into it, the more I feel this way. We'll see.


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## M R Ducks (Nov 26, 2011)

So - a SH, almost MH dog broke at gunfire? How did they ever get past JH doing that? Even with no hunting experience, that should be the one thing that dog should have been able to do.

Go meat dogs, go!


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

M R Ducks said:


> So - a SH, almost MH dog broke at gunfire? How did they ever get past JH doing that? Even with no hunting experience, that should be the one thing that dog should have been able to do.
> 
> Go meat dogs, go!


Had to laugh at this, I hope your joking. Nothing like 30 widgeons crushing your decoys when everyone is almost asleep to make ANY dog break. The only way to ensure your dog wont break is to tie him to something substantial.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Loddog said:


> This is a great post and a good point that's been taking up some of my brain cycles lately. Does anyone know of any forums as seriously dedicated to hunting training as this one is to trial training? There's tons of good info here and I've learned a ton before I even submitted my first post a few days ago, but I have literally zero interest in field trials.
> 
> I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way... I may just be too amateur to realize I have all I need here. I haven't found any forums around near as good as this one, though, I must say. Nice, knowledgeable folks.


 
Train like you're going to be at the national and you'll have the best hunting dog in your state at 1.5 years old. Just take a dog hunting once or twice a month and it will take about 5 years for your dog to "get" it.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

savage25xtreme said:


> Had to laugh at this, I hope your joking. Nothing like 30 widgeons crushing your decoys when everyone is almost asleep to make ANY dog break. The only way to ensure your dog wont break is to tie him to something substantial.


HAHAHAHAHA I agree. You must not hunt much, if you don't know how a MH, Grand, FC, any title ever thought of, meat dog, dog with a pulse will break, even with an e-collar, tied in place by the neck and tail, and blind-folded, When you got three guys shooting and 4-6 wild ducks coming down at a time. And that's before the geese start coming in. A couple of those and all of the sudden gun-fire means something 

Still a couple more outings and he'll be completely ruined. Innocence Lost, Never look at a bird coming out of a winger or a stick gun the same way again


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

John Robinson said:


> That was great. Must have been fun for everyone, especially the dog.


I believe it was the most fun for the guys that don't have dogs and just came to shoot, they are used to the seasoned hunting dog, watching the youngster get freaked out by moving decoys and the expression when something came out of the sky and tried to bop him on the head was "priceless"


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

M R Ducks said:


> So - a SH, almost MH dog broke at gunfire? How did they ever get past JH doing that? Even with no hunting experience, that should be the one thing that dog should have been able to do.
> 
> Go meat dogs, go!


Over the years every one of my MH, QAA dogs has broken on the first bird each season, it's a whole nother level of excitment for them. I'm prepared for it, and they get a big correction and usually don't break again the rest of the season. They also know the difference between training, trialing and hunting, it is very rare that any of them have broken at a trial.

John


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Loddog said:


> This is a great post and a good point that's been taking up some of my brain cycles lately. Does anyone know of any forums as seriously dedicated to hunting training as this one is to trial training? There's tons of good info here and I've learned a ton before I even submitted my first post a few days ago, but I have literally zero interest in field trials.
> 
> I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way... I may just be too amateur to realize I have all I need here. I haven't found any forums around near as good as this one, though, I must say. Nice, knowledgeable folks.


Look at the DU forums.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Took My friends SH- almost MH dog out hunting, he had never been. It was probably one of the funnest experience I have had this year. Good Shooting and a 1.5 year fully trained dog, out in the blind that had never seen a wild duck.
> 
> Talk about culture shock, We had that pups mind spinning by the end of the day. So things a dog learns on his first hunting experience. :shock::shock::shock:
> 
> ...


I guess I don't understand the point of the post. Exactly what are you trying to say?


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## Donald Flanagan (Mar 17, 2009)

I think the point is that training for an HT or FT gives the dog the basic skills it needs for hunting, but doesn't prepare the dog (or handler) for the real thing. When was the last time they released 20 pigeons at a field trial, and shot 4 of them for a quad, 25 yards away from the line? Probably never, so we don't train for that. We train for what we expect to find at a hunt test, not for what we'll encounter while hunting. When was the last time they threw 3 drake mallards at an HT, and shot them down in succession, and one curved around and landed 70 yards behind you? Want to see if your dog is steady? Take him on a dove hunt (aka war zone) with 5 other hunters. When you look down and realize that your 18 month old dog is gone, having run off to chase a bird your buddy shot, it dawns on you that if you train for tests, you will have holes. 15 minutes at the line (whether in training or at a test) doesn't prepare a dog for sitting quietly all day long, waiting for birds to fly in. And having your dog sit at your side in the blind (so you can keep him from breaking) means that he can't see the birds you shot. So when you step out of the blind, line him up and send him, and he chases the coot that flushed when he hit the water...You get the picture. This is the journey that I've been on this season, and hunting more, along with trying to be consistent as a handler, has led to much improvement in my dog. Still working on me, though.


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## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Took My friends SH- almost MH dog out hunting, he had never been. It was probably one of the funnest experience I have had this year. Good Shooting and a 1.5 year fully trained dog, out in the blind that had never seen a wild duck.
> 
> Talk about culture shock, We had that pups mind spinning by the end of the day. So things a dog learns on his first hunting experience. :shock::shock::shock:
> 
> ...


Courageous post! I loved it.  Nothing like actual field exp.


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

M R Ducks said:


> So - a SH, almost MH dog broke at gunfire? How did they ever get past JH doing that? Even with no hunting experience, that should be the one thing that dog should have been able to do.
> 
> Go meat dogs, go!


Every dog is gonna break. It's just a matter of when.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Took My friends SH- almost MH dog out hunting, he had never been. It was probably one of the funnest experience I have had this year. Good Shooting and a 1.5 year fully trained dog, out in the blind that had never seen a wild duck.
> 
> Talk about culture shock, We had that pups mind spinning by the end of the day. So things a dog learns on his first hunting experience. :shock::shock::shock:
> 
> ...


I have a problem with 3,4,6,8. The owner handler of a SH should put his gun down and TRAIN his dog. In no case should he be allowed multiple infractions, better to crate him/her.

Or is this perhaps one of those my friend's dog wink wink stories.;-)

"Be kind is so 2011" ode to the Felanie


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## Jeff Atkinson (Jul 30, 2010)

savage25xtreme said:


> The good news is a _smart_ dog, which a good HT dog should be, can pick up on all these things in just a few hunts. HTs are not hunting, they are a tool to test some of the skills needed for hunting.


Yep! This is my dog's first season who my goals are strictly test and trial related, while hunting when the seasons allows. I have a very young dog (16 months) who blows every person's mind that she is new to hunting with. Give the dog a few more hunts and they'll be a pro in no time!;-)


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

as a relatively newbie here, I love this thread! I want a dog that is an expert hunter first and foremost, then I want to play the hunt test game. Just seems it might be eaiser that way.

but Im a newbie.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

But.......give that FC/AFC/MH several good hunts and they will more than hold their own in the blind.


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Loddog said:


> This is a great post and a good point that's been taking up some of my brain cycles lately. Does anyone know of any forums as seriously dedicated to hunting training as this one is to trial training? There's tons of good info here and I've learned a ton before I even submitted my first post a few days ago, but I have literally zero interest in field trials.
> 
> I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way... I may just be too amateur to realize I have all I need here. I haven't found any forums around near as good as this one, though, I must say. Nice, knowledgeable folks.


you have all you need here pretty much...i dont post much, just read and learn. i dont run HT yet, but planning on it with my latest pup. But i train my dogs like i am gonna run them. and have taken tips and advice from a lot of threads here and my older dog is about as good a hunting dog as i could ask for. he hunts 4-5 days a week all season. he sits perfectly still and silent. rarely breaks (maybe once or twice a season). marks well. if he doesnt mark the bird or in the case of multiple falls in a good volley, he will run a blind well on water or land and get the bird.

so id stick it out here and learn all you can.


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

Quackwacker said:


> as a relatively newbie here, I love this thread! I want a dog that is an expert hunter first and foremost, then I want to play the hunt test game. Just seems it might be eaiser that way.
> 
> but Im a newbie.


As much as I enjoy playing dog games, my true love will always be hunting with my dog. I think you'll find though that it's far more practical & enjoyable to take a "hunt test dog" hunting and enjoy watching as he learns to put it all together like the pup described in the OP than it is to try to undo bad habits learned by a hunting dog when you decide to run tests. I can't remember where I heard the analogy of "hunt tests is to hunting" as "a biology quiz is to surgery" but I think it hints at the body of knowledge that a fine gundog acquires over a lifetime. The training for the tests lays the foundation.


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## M R Ducks (Nov 26, 2011)

savage25xtreme said:


> Had to laugh at this, I hope your joking. Nothing like 30 widgeons crushing your decoys when everyone is almost asleep to make ANY dog break. The only way to ensure your dog wont break is to tie him to something substantial.


Nope - wasn't joking. Was referring to the comment about the dog ending up in the pond after just hearing gun shots. 

I agree with your ccomment. My dog always stays teatherd until the first ducks need retrieved, then she calms down and can sit on her own.


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

My female has never broke at a trial (yet), but she is not very steady in the blind once the birds start falling and honestly I could careless if she is. I will not hunt with a dog that breaks when the birds are working or even sitting in the decoys, but when the guns start going off bring me the birds back and fast! I don't want to be chasing cripples around half the morning, therefore I think the dog should get there quick. I'm sure I don't hunt near as much as most of you do, so what do I know... 

Another funny thing to me is to go pheasant hunting with someone that has a dog that is steady like the HRC dog's have got to be. You will loose half the pheasants you shoot doing that.


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## PhilBernardi (Jul 17, 2010)

HTs and FTs are controlled events. Hunting is not - comparatively speaking.

Apples and oranges.

But I'll take a HT or FT dog with hunting experience over a hunt-only trained dog any day of the week.

I'll take me a Tackett's dog or Shawn Stahl's dog in a heart beat.


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

Brandoned said:


> My female has never broke at a trial (yet), but she is not very steady in the blind once the birds start falling and honestly I could careless if she is. I will not hunt with a dog that breaks when the birds are working or even sitting in the decoys, but when the guns start going off bring me the birds back and fast! I don't want to be chasing cripples around half the morning, therefore I think the dog should get there quick. I'm sure I don't hunt near as much as most of you do, so what do I know...
> 
> Another funny thing to me is to go pheasant hunting with someone that has a dog that is steady like the HRC dog's have got to be. You will loose half the pheasants you shoot doing that.


Until you go to shoot a cripple and notice you draw down right on your dog. Or the dog runs your a$$ over while your shooting trying to get out of the blind to pick up ducks. BAD IDEA.


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

savage25xtreme said:


> Until you go to shoot a cripple and notice you draw down right on your dog. Or the dog runs your a$$ over while your shooting trying to get out of the blind to pick up ducks. BAD IDEA.


Ahh I think I am a little smarter than that. It would be hard for my dog to run over me when I am in the blind and she isn't.


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## Waterdogs (Jan 20, 2006)

That is why I hunt as much as I can. I had three young dog at the beginning of the season and they are all kicking but now. Now I get to shoot and enjoy the hunt myself. No matter how hard you try you just can't simulate the real thing.


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

Dogs that have a solid foundation that are trained for field events quickly and easily learn the skills needed in a duck blind.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Brandoned said:


> Ahh I think I am a little smarter than that. It would be hard for my dog to run over me when I am in the blind and she isn't.


Your dog can still be shot. You just never know what can happen when two or three people are shooting and the dog breaks.

Hunted with a guy once, and I mean once, my dog was chasing a cripple and the idiot shoots it 6 ft in front of my dog. He apologized profusely and you could tell he meant it but you only get one chance when its one of my dogs.


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## M R Ducks (Nov 26, 2011)

I do my best to keep control over my dog in the blind, and only let her retrieve on my command. I agree cripples need chased ASAP, and I don't really care about the "birds that are working" as compared to the birds that are down, BUT - and this is a big BUT...

I don't want my dog getting shot - and I have had close calls with mine, and seen other dogs shot as they bail out of a blind after a close fall cripple that someone (usually a youngster just learing the ropes) just can't resist shooting one more time. 

Soooo... pup stays teathered until she calms down. Most of the time that's a bird or two - other times it's the whole hunt.


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

My 2 1/2yr old MH had his 1st hunting season this year. 1st hunt he experienced all that happened on Huntemups hunt. I had to handle him to most of the birds. 2 nd hunt he was marking falling birds and scanning the sky. 3rd hunt he was doing as well as my 8 yr old MH


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

Brandoned said:


> Another funny thing to me is to go pheasant hunting with someone that has a dog that is steady like the HRC dog's have got to be. You will loose half the pheasants you shoot doing that.


Well, that is surprising to me. I’ve been hunting with steady dogs for over 25 years & I can’t remember the last pheasant I knocked down & lost. I can remember several times that I couldn’t shoot though because somebody else’s dog was chasing too close on a low bird. On the other hand, if you’re crippling half the pheasants you shoot, your time might best be spent at the range, they’re really not that hard.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

I have too be honest, and this is not meant as an insult just an observation, when I read the original post all I could think was, The owner didn't do a very good job before season preparing his dog. 

A dog at that level that doesn't have experience with decoys and lots of them? Pretty easy to set up in training. Guns going off and no retrieves? Again, pretty easy to set up in training. Diving duck, shackled bird in training. Allowing the dog to go 100 yards in wrong direction - well that's the handlers fault. Expecting the dog to hunt from inside a hut, box, blind; again training before season. Now NONE of my dogs have ever broke hunting, crept maybe 2 feet, but there is the old saying "there are 2 types of dog, those that have broke and those that will."

Just seems like much of this could have been covered in training. Of course, I don't know the owner, maybe he's one that runs hunt tests and decided to go hunting. Where mine are hunting dogs that run hunt tests.


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## kdeckels (Sep 12, 2009)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Took My friends SH- almost MH dog out hunting, he had never been. It was probably one of the funnest experience I have had this year. Good Shooting and a 1.5 year fully trained dog, out in the blind that had never seen a wild duck.
> 
> Talk about culture shock, We had that pups mind spinning by the end of the day. So things a dog learns on his first hunting experience. :shock::shock::shock:
> 
> ...


I run HRC, but I still got a kick out of your post. The only duck hunts we usually get in are the HT's, the rest of our time is spent in the upland.


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

Had the first hunt experience this past weekend with a 10.5 MO YLM. The hunting experience spotlighted several things that his handler needs to do some work on. 

He started out as a decoy retrieving machine -and was so helpful to get two without being asked to do so. Finally figured out they were not real birds. Seemed to have a hard time sitting down on day one. Did much better on day two with this. Did learn on day two that gunfire (even from other blinds) meant he needed to watch the sky. 

Had him tethered to a tree on day one. We started picking up decoys, and he decided he wanted to help. Tore the zipper out of his brand new vest. 

Keep in mind that not one shot was fired by us either day, so we didn't even have the stimulus of real birds going down. No telling what would have happened there. 

Thanks to the guys I hunted with for putting up with us and for all the advice on handling my dog. We have our work cut off for us for sure. 

I did confirm that he is extremely birdy. If his handler can get a little better control over him he might be a pretty fair hunting dog.


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## big gunner (Mar 1, 2010)

Currently training and running field trials with Gunner. At 10 mo. He hunted Peele Island, Ont. for their Pheasant hunt. He retrieved over 50 birds with 6 of us in 2 days. The next spring he started running Derbys. By Oct. he had run 11 derbys finished the last 7 and placed in 5. 1 week after the last derby we were headed to Manitoba for a duck & goose hunt. From layout blinds, to hay bails, to mashes. Gunner did it all. He just turned 2yrs. and I am looking forward to a lot of success,fun and laughs. I have met a lot of new friends along the way and rekindled old friendships. I am truely enjoying the ride. 

Afield trial dog that hunts.

Erick Pfeifer & Gunner


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## Troy Tilleraas (Sep 24, 2010)

My 9 year old GMHR-1 just got back from Arkansas with a friend in 1 week-227 ducks. (1 dog) My young black male went hunting/guiding pheasants is SD last year at 17 months hunted and retrieved over 50 birds, came back into testing went 3-7 in placements in Derbies 2- 2nds and a jam and 6-8 on Master tests and had his MH at 23 months- Hunting has no irrevocable harm!

MHR TNT Vermillion Struk It Rich MH "Nugget"
GMHR-1 TNT Drifter's Blast of Kyanne "Ky"
TNT Pirate Lit Lit The Fuse MH "Cannon"
TNT Light Up The Sky SH "Haley"
MHR-1 TNT Firestorm Grace's Isabelle SH "Izzy"
SR TNT Savannah Mae Explode "Savy"
TNT One Of The Boys " Willie"


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

Dave Flint said:


> Well, that is surprising to me. I’ve been hunting with steady dogs for over 25 years & I can’t remember the last pheasant I knocked down & lost. I can remember several times that I couldn’t shoot though because somebody else’s dog was chasing too close on a low bird. On the other hand, if you’re crippling half the pheasants you shoot, your time might best be spent at the range, they’re really not that hard.


I would love to meet you at a gun range any time and you could pick the game of your choice! I promise you that you will loose!!!!


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## j towne (Jul 27, 2006)

I take my hunt test dog out everytime I go hunting. I dont have a problem at all. 
I think he is more of a meat dog then a hunt test dog. 
He will be 7 this year and hasn't ran a hunt test in almost 4 years. He finished he hunt test career by passing 4 master test in a row.


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

M R Ducks said:


> I do my best to keep control over my dog in the blind, and only let her retrieve on my command. I agree cripples need chased ASAP, and I don't really care about the "birds that are working" as compared to the birds that are down, BUT - and this is a big BUT...
> 
> I don't want my dog getting shot - and I have had close calls with mine, and seen other dogs shot as they bail out of a blind after a close fall cripple that someone (usually a youngster just learing the ropes) just can't resist shooting one more time.
> 
> Soooo... pup stays teathered until she calms down. Most of the time that's a bird or two - other times it's the whole hunt.


If you are shooting the birds in close enough and the dog is steady, you can put another bullet in the cripples and ensure they do not get away.


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

Troy Tilleraas said:


> My 9 year old GMHR-1 just got back from Arkansas with a friend in 1 week-227 ducks. (1 dog) My young black male went hunting/guiding pheasants is SD last year at 17 months hunted and retrieved over 50 birds, came back into testing went 3-7 in placements in Derbies 2- 2nds and a jam and 6-8 on Master tests and had his MH at 23 months- Hunting has no irrevocable harm!
> 
> MHR TNT Vermillion Struk It Rich MH "Nugget"
> GMHR-1 TNT Drifter's Blast of Kyanne "Ky"
> ...


Where were you in ARK last week to kill that many birds. WOW


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Jeff Huntington said:


> Where were you in ARK last week to kill that many birds. WOW


I would like to know too! We have barely killed that many as a 12 member club! We killed 683 last year. :shock:


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Jeff,

My group killed 136 in 4 hunts near Texarkana the first week of the year.

There are some ducks around. Just have to find them.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Dman said:


> Jeff,
> 
> My group killed 136 in 4 hunts near Texarkana the first week of the year.
> 
> There are some ducks around. Just have to find them.


I challenge you to do that this week without cheating or being on private land. My cousin's son is a minor leauge ball player and off for the winter. He is passionate about duck hunting as in scouting and hunting everday of the season. 

Guess what he is doing this week, Crappie fishing on Wright Patman. He too killed a bunch of ducks the first week.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

duk4me said:


> I challenge you to do that this week without cheating or being on private land. My cousin's son is a minor leauge ball player and off for the winter. He is passionate about duck hunting as in scouting and hunting everday of the season.
> 
> Guess what he is doing this week, Crappie fishing on Wright Patman. He too killed a bunch of ducks the first week.


This crazy weather has the ducks all messed up....a lot of them have left.

Crappie fishing sounds like a good plan, unless this cold front gets here early enough and brings a few more birds in.

I have a couple very good honey holes on private land that have been very good to us this year. We normally kill about 400 birds in a season, this year however, looks like we will be over 600.

Also have a couple friends that killed 4 limits of mallards on Millwood last Saturday.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Dman said:


> This crazy weather has the ducks all messed up....a lot of them have left.
> 
> Crappie fishing sounds like a good plan, unless this cold front gets here early enough and brings a few more birds in.
> 
> ...


I have a cabin o Sulphur River that gives me access to the White Oak WMA and the Army Corp land in the area. I haven 't seen it this bad since the 70's. EArly season was good on the lakes but the actual bottoms have been horrible.

I'm going to look for a lease on the Red River next year. The public hunting pressure has been unreal the last couple of years. Guess its time to bite the bullet and spend some cash.


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

Brandoned said:


> I would love to meet you at a gun range any time and you could pick the game of your choice! I promise you that you will loose!!!!


LOL, I suppose anything is possible but you also said I’d lose half my birds if I hunt over a steady dog so I’m kinda skeptical….


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

Dave Flint said:


> LOL, I suppose anything is possible but you also said I’d lose half my birds if I hunt over a steady dog so I’m kinda skeptical….


Dave,

I find it hard to believe you are hunting anything but released birds in Texas if you have never lost any birds! I don’t care how great a shot you “think” you are and how great you “think” your dogs are, you will lose birds! I have hunted over everything from HRC dogs to FC/AFC’s and they all lose birds at some point! Where I hunt in South Dakota on wild birds, you do good to see your dog working in CRP, and I have never seen a dog tall enough to see in standing corn so shooting a dog is never an issue. I use to guide some on set out birds like the ones you shoot and they were not near as tough as wild birds and of course you never lost any because they just stand there after they are shot because they don’t know how to do anything else. Oh and btw I was hunting those pheasants with pointers that were steady because we were hunting in cover like you do that wasn’t even calf deep, so in that situation I can see needing a steady dog. 

But think what you think and I will continue to keep hunting the way I hunt, we can agree to disagree!


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Brandoned said:


> Dave,
> 
> I find it hard to believe you are hunting anything but released birds in Texas if you have never lost any birds! I don’t care how great a shot you “think” you are and how great you “think” your dogs are, you will lose birds! I have hunted over everything from HRC dogs to FC/AFC’s and they all lose birds at some point! Where I hunt in South Dakota on wild birds, you do good to see your dog working in CRP, and I have never seen a dog tall enough to see in standing corn so shooting a dog is never an issue. I use to guide some on set out birds like the ones you shoot and they were not near as tough as wild birds and of course you never lost any because they just stand there after they are shot because they don’t know how to do anything else. Oh and btw I was hunting those pheasants with pointers that were steady because we were hunting in cover like you do that wasn’t even calf deep, so in that situation I can see needing a steady dog.
> 
> But think what you think and I will continue to keep hunting the way I hunt, we can agree to disagree!


Actually there are wild pheasants in parts of Texas with very huntable numbers/. Just not the entire state. 

Texas its a whole nuther country regards,


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

Brandoned said:


> Dave,
> 
> I find it hard to believe you are hunting anything but released birds in Texas if you have never lost any birds! I don’t care how great a shot you “think” you are and how great you “think” your dogs are, you will lose birds! I have hunted over everything from HRC dogs to FC/AFC’s and they all lose birds at some point! Where I hunt in South Dakota on wild birds, you do good to see your dog working in CRP, and I have never seen a dog tall enough to see in standing corn so shooting a dog is never an issue. I use to guide some on set out birds like the ones you shoot and they were not near as tough as wild birds and of course you never lost any because they just stand there after they are shot because they don’t know how to do anything else. Oh and btw I was hunting those pheasants with pointers that were steady because we were hunting in cover like you do that wasn’t even calf deep, so in that situation I can see needing a steady dog.
> 
> But think what you think and I will continue to keep hunting the way I hunt, we can agree to disagree!


“Skirmish Line” hunting like they do in S.D. is also the way it’s done in the Texas panhandle. I did it once but it wasn’t for me. (dozens of Nimrods driving w/ dogs running wild until you reach the blockers & then everybody blazes away as the birds come boiling up). Since you can seldom even see your dog, it would be nearly impossible to enforce steadiness & because dog work doesn’t play much of a role, a steady dog wouldn’t get many retrieves anyway. I know a lot of guys enjoy it but that doesn’t really match my idea of “hunting” any more than the preserve shoots you assume I’m accustomed to.

Instead, my kind of pheasant hunting began when I lived in Kansas & hunted nearly every day of the season with only my Lab or at most 1-2 other guys. I go back at least once a year w/ one or two fellow gundog aficionados who like to hunt the same way I do. We each hunt over our own dog & follow them to where the birds are. We don’t see thousands of birds and we don’t “block & drive”. We go to watch our dogs outwit birds that have eluded hawks & coyotes their whole lives & we earn every bird. Sometimes the bird evades the dog & we come up empty but very rarely do I hit a bird that doesn’t get recovered.

The rest of the year, I do shoot a lot of pen-raised pheasants in training Springers for field trials, but I certainly don’t confuse that with hunting. I also shoot a few Springer Field Trials each year where steady dogs somehow manage to retrieve shot birds or else they’re dismissed. They very seldom fail to make the retrieve even though the birds are often shot much farther away than is usual in hunting. If a bird is crippled, a dog can move up in the standings by trailing it successfully. This is where some of my appreciation for what a good dog is capable of comes from. 

I’d never suggest that you need a steady dog to hunt pheasants. I’ve actually never hunted w/ one that wasn’t owned by a hunt tester/field trialer. (it takes a commitment to keep them that way.) My issue is that you claim that it’s some kind of huge disadvantage to recovering birds & that's simply not my experience. For me, a steady dog is just a more refined performance & it adds to my enjoyment of the hunt. If I do happen to cripple a bird, my dogs have proven time & again that they have the ability to trail & recover it. I spend the off-season training them to do just that so when it happens on a wild bird hunt, it’s very rewarding.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Steve Peacock said:


> I have too be honest, and this is not meant as an insult just an observation, when I read the original post all I could think was, The owner didn't do a very good job before season preparing his dog.
> .


Your right the owner did not prepare his dog for actual hunting. Can you prepare a dog for actual hunting? Maybe that's the point. I haven't seen many hunt test setups with mojos, robo-ducks, wind-whacker, bubblers, wabbles, etc. That our club gadget gurus have to have this and every year. Some of them freak me out. Of course I'm under the impression that the owner, who doesn't hunt asked us to take his dog out so he could get exposure to such things. On the Steady thing, the dog was so much in aww the whole time, and so nervous with all the familiar but decidedly _different_ stuff that we didn't want to mess with him too much and make the experience negative. The breaking correction had him hiding in the hutt for about 30min. Also the owner did not go, and everyone out there in that duck blind, was about primarily getting birds, not training a _finished_ level gun-dog. So he went and was thrown into the deep end of the pool, He made plenty of mistakes, and broke several rules. SO WHAT!!?  He learned a lot, gained a lot of experience in important things that his career thus far had not prepared him for, given time he'll get the strong enforcement, let's get him marking and not handling first.  Still the important thing and the reason I posted this story, Was, Simply it was a Very Fun Day, it was great watching a dog discover newness in simple things that he was sure he already knew everything about. Hunting is when a lot of dots start to connect, the real purpose of blinds, why we spend all this time training, why it's important to stay still, etc. Seeing all those little lights come on in a dog's head is amazing to watch, watching so many of them come on at once, as is the case with a never-hunted higher level dog was really quite thrilling, and I'm glad I was a part of it. So Moral of the Story _Hunting is Different_ and just as _Important_ be sure to make time to take your HT & FT dogs out hunting, they and you miss out on so much when you don't.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Your right the owner did not prepare his dog for actual hunting. Can you prepare a dog for actual hunting? Maybe that's the point. I haven't seen many hunt test setups with mojos, robo-ducks, wind-whacker, bubblers, wabbles, etc. That our club gadget gurus have to have this and every year. Some of them freak me out. Of course I'm under the impression that the owner, who doesn't hunt asked us to take his dog out so he could get exposure to such things. On the Steady thing, the dog was so much in aww the whole time, and so nervous with all the familiar but decidedly _different_ stuff that we didn't want to mess with him too much and make the experience negative. The breaking correction had him hiding in the hutt for about 30min. Also the owner did not go, and everyone out there in that duck blind, was about primarily getting birds, not training a _finished_ level gun-dog. So he went and was thrown into the deep end of the pool, He made plenty of mistakes, and broke several rules. SO WHAT!!?  He learned a lot, gained a lot of experience in important things that his career thus far had not prepared him for, given time he'll get the strong enforcement, let's get him marking and not handling first.  Still the important thing and the reason I posted this story, Was, Simply it was a Very Fun Day, it was great watching a dog discover newness in simple things that he was sure he already knew everything about. Hunting is when a lot of dots start to connect, the real purpose of blinds, why we spend all this time training, why it's important to stay still, etc. Seeing all those little lights come on in a dog's head is amazing to watch, watching so many of them come on at once, as is the case with a never-hunted higher level dog was really quite thrilling, and I'm glad I was a part of it. So Moral of the Story _Hunting is Different_ and just as _Important_ be sure to make time to take your HT & FT dogs out hunting, they and you miss out on so much when you don't.


Yes you can prepare a dog for actual hunting. Not picking on you just trying to help some others prepping their dog for its first hunt.

The way to prepare a dog for hunting is the same as preparing him for a hunt test or anything else. They have to be exposed to what is going to happen before the real thing.

So preseason we set up hunts in the places we plan to hunt for real. We often take a boat to hunting areas. Therefore each dog is exposed to boat rides and yea it sucks but that exposure has to be predawn after a few day time boat rides. 

Then we place the decoys spinners included and setup just like it was open season. Hide the bumper boys blow the calls shoot the guns sometimes a bumper comes out sometimes not. Oops forgot plant a couple blinds too.The person handling the dog does nothing but handle the dog and in a first hunt or two one person handles the dog everyone else shoots.

That being said the dogs aren't going to be perfect but if you do a few simulated hunts you would be shocked how much better they perform on their first real hunt and how much less there is to be corrected after the hunt.

The real benefit of this is it gets you and your buddies out of the house riding in a boat having fun in the offseason.


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## Troy Tilleraas (Sep 24, 2010)

Jeff Huntington said:


> Where were you in ARK last week to kill that many birds. WOW


I was not there, my dog was. She was with Rob Stucker a Professional Guide who works for Premier Flight Service in Rochester MN for Geese. PM me and I will give out his info Pics on our website with more to come. www.tntvermillionriverkennels.com


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

duk4me said:


> Yes you can prepare a dog for actual hunting. Not picking on you just trying to help some others prepping their dog for its first hunt.
> 
> The way to prepare a dog for hunting is the same as preparing him for a hunt test or anything else. They have to be exposed to what is going to happen before the real thing.
> 
> ...



Awesome!
"You'll fight the way you've trained". 

This is what you'll do when the quality of the dog work is as important to you as the bag limit.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

duk4me said:


> Yes you can prepare a dog for actual hunting. Not picking on you just trying to help some others prepping their dog for its first hunt.
> 
> The way to prepare a dog for hunting is the same as preparing him for a hunt test or anything else. They have to be exposed to what is going to happen before the real thing.
> 
> ...


We do the same thing here. The main reason I got involved in HT is because it extends my fun and hunting season. Great off season fun.


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## Jim Spagna (Apr 21, 2008)

M&K's Retrievers said:


> Every dog is gonna break. It's just a matter of when.


A friend of mine says there are two kinds of dogs. One that breaks and one that's getting ready to break! 

I agree with those who think you need to train for hunting just like you do for a hunt test. Not necessarily a plug but this is one of the reasons I chose Chris Akin's "Duck Dog Basics". Along with the OB, FF, & that sort of thing, there is a part that addresses hunting in a blind, in a pit, and in a boat. As a result of that training, my dog has the best blind...actually pit...manners that I've ever seen. No whining or barking. He just sits there and watches for ducks...I've killed more than one duck that I wouldn't have seen if he hadn't seen them first. We had a couple "break" incidents his first two seasons. This season we're in flooded corn and it is important, in my opinion, to send him ASAP. Don't want to jinx him but, so far, he hasn't even pretended to break and I haven't lost a single duck this year. He's, again IMO, one hell of a hunting dog.

I forgot to mention that he has a HRCH title and an SR title and need one more pass for his MH title. Bottom line is You can't tell me a hunt test dog can't be as good as a meat dog!


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

duk4me said:


> Actually there are wild pheasants in parts of Texas with very huntable numbers/. Just not the entire state.
> 
> Texas its a whole nuther country regards,



I have hunted in Texas for the last 15 years from Dalhart to Kingsville, so I know a little bit about hunting out there. I hunted pheasants in Dumas and yes there are hunt able #'s there, but not enough to compare with the Midwest! 

With that said I will be in Texas goose, crane and duck hunting the last week of season; so please be on the lookout for my untrained, breaking dog, she could end up anywhere...


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Brandoned said:


> I have hunted in Texas for the last 15 years from Dalhart to Kingsville, so I know a little bit about hunting out there. I hunted pheasants in Dumas and yes there are hunt able #'s there, but not enough to compare with the Midwest!
> 
> With that said I will be in Texas goose, crane and duck hunting the last week of season; so please be on the lookout for my untrained, breaking dog, she could end up anywhere...


I'll keep my eye out for her but if she ends up here that would be the break of all breaks.


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## kdeckels (Sep 12, 2009)

Thinking back on the original post, how should we expect anything different.

I believe they call it generalization. It's why we do yard work & field work. It's why you can have the perfectly obedient dog in your back yard & you take him to the obedience ring & he falls apart. The dog knows how to act in the Hunt Test "game", but unless prepared right, it's a total different game. 

All this can be taken with a grain of salt, just my thoughts.


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## PocketLab (Apr 23, 2010)

Brandoned said:


> Ahh I think I am a little smarter than that. It would be hard for my dog to run over me when I am in the blind and she isn't.


I agree with Tim. Had a similar experience and similar outcome. Never hunted with that guy again. As for the "breaking helps to pick up cripples" theory, last weekend I had a large flock of GWT come in. We shot 8 of them. 2 were cripples swimming away from the blind. So there are 6 dead ducks on the water between the dog and the cripples. What do you think the breaker will do?

Blinds with major suction regards.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

duk4me said:


> Yes you can prepare a dog for actual hunting. Not picking on you just trying to help some others prepping their dog for its first hunt.
> 
> The way to prepare a dog for hunting is the same as preparing him for a hunt test or anything else. They have to be exposed to what is going to happen before the real thing.
> 
> ...


THAT'S what I was trying to refer too! Thank you. And who said that all preparation was at Hunt Tests? Not me, I said training. He did answer some questions with the 2nd post. Owner runs hunt tests but doesn't hunt - explains a lot. Owner didn't go, someone else took the dog THEN DID NOT concentrate more on the dog than the hunt - injustice to the dog. *I* very much enjoy watching a dog discover new things, but the introduction is usually done as a pup,when it should be done, not when they are a year & 1/2. About the only thing from the original post that the dog did that didn't surprise me was the dog looking out instead of up for birds it's first hunt.

You know I'm sorry if I offended you Hunt'em UP, but all I saw was so many mistakes made with this dog, THEN COMPOUNDED by YOU not forgoing YOUR hunt to make sure the dog had a proper introduction to hunting. I believe a big injustice was done to the poor dog. Bothers me because I've seen too many dogs ruined this way and the blame get put on the dog.


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

Another thing that bothers me is the BIG CORRECTION that was made for breaking that had the dog hiding in his blind for 30 minutes. For a dog that is new to hunting, I prefer a swift whack on the ass the second your dogs butt comes up verses letting a full on break happen then burning them all the way back.

Again you have to be working the dog not the birds to get the best timing.

I fowl hunt 30 or so days a year and I find myself about 3 or 4 times a season putting the gun down to get the dog back in shape.... take a heeling stick instead of ammo.

to each their own.


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## J. Walker (Feb 21, 2009)

To me, the whole issue was flawed from the beginning. The assumption was made that a hunting test titled dog that has never hunted won't have a clue as to what to do in the first few hunts. I couldn't disagree more. A GOOD training regimen will introduce dogs to decoys, lots of shooting with no retrieves (anyone ever heard of a skeet range), close birds, other dogs, and so on. If all someone does is stand there while people throw birds or birds are launched from 50+ yards away, then, yes, a dog will probably struggle in the beginning but I'll still take that dog over a "meat" dog as the former has probably been schooled on marking concepts and blinds to a far greater degree than the "meat" dog and, as a result, will probably catch on quickly and be better prepared for the more challenging aspects of hunting. I've been around too many "meat" dogs "trained" by friends that had to be tethered to the blind, couldn't mark a multiple fall for anything, would run the banks and get lost behind cattails in a heartbeat, and blinds, what are those? In fact, the vast majority of "meat" dogs I've been around have been great at 30 yard singles and that's been about it. If they did blinds, they were ugly, hacked up 40 yard blinds that I could have timed with a calendar. I've heard many people say "Oh, I train for hunting so I don't need a dog to do 100 yard retrieves." Really? At a pheasant shoot less than two weeks ago, my dog picked up at least a half-dozen 100+ yard retrieves including a 200 yard poison bird blind as the mark he saw fall was closer to another dog and several doubles. Meanwhile, a guy who was there with his older, experienced hunting dog was literally having to walk half-way to every bird because his dog simply wouldn't look for a mark past 40 yards. It was also the very first hunt for another young dog I trained who belongs to a friend. She did a great job and it took her about 10 minutes to realize that not every bird would fall, not every bird was hers, and all she had to do was track the birds in the air. She even did a 100 yard blind over a hill where we couldn't see her to bring back a wounded bird on its way to the standing millet. That's real, useful hunting skill brought about purely from training as it was her first pheasant shoot and only her third time in the field as she's just over a year. All I'm saying is that my experience has been that the learning curve of a dog that has been properly trained for hunting, hunting tests and field trials will be shorter than the majority of dogs trained "just for hunting."


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

J. Walker said:


> To me, the whole issue was flawed from the beginning. The assumption was made that a hunting test titled dog that has never hunted won't have a clue as to what to do in the first few hunts. I couldn't disagree more. A GOOD training regimen will introduce dogs to decoys, lots of shooting with no retrieves (anyone ever heard of a skeet range), close birds, other dogs, and so on. If all someone does is stand there while people throw birds or birds are launched from 50+ yards away, then, yes, a dog will probably struggle in the beginning but I'll still take that dog over a "meat" dog as the former has probably been schooled on marking concepts and blinds to a far greater degree than the "meat" dog and, as a result, will probably catch on quickly and be better prepared for the more challenging aspects of hunting. I've been around too many "meat" dogs "trained" by friends that had to be tethered to the blind, couldn't mark a multiple fall for anything, would run the banks and get lost behind cattails in a heartbeat, and blinds, what are those? In fact, the vast majority of "meat" dogs I've been around have been great at 30 yard singles and that's been about it. If they did blinds, they were ugly, hacked up 40 yard blinds that I could have timed with a calendar. I've heard many people say "Oh, I train for hunting so I don't need a dog to do 100 yard retrieves." Really? At a pheasant shoot less than two weeks ago, my dog picked up at least a half-dozen 100+ yard retrieves including a 200 yard poison bird blind as the mark he saw fall was closer to another dog and several doubles. Meanwhile, a guy who was there with his older, experienced hunting dog was literally having to walk half-way to every bird because his dog simply wouldn't look for a mark past 40 yards. It was also the very first hunt for another young dog I trained who belongs to a friend. She did a great job and it took her about 10 minutes to realize that not every bird would fall, not every bird was hers, and all she had to do was track the birds in the air. She even did a 100 yard blind over a hill where we couldn't see her to bring back a wounded bird on its way to the standing millet. That's real, useful hunting skill brought about purely from training as it was her first pheasant shoot and only her third time in the field as she's just over a year. All I'm saying is that my experience has been that the learning curve of a dog that has been properly trained for hunting, hunting tests and field trials will be shorter than the majority of dogs trained "just for hunting."




Amen, 
This thread hit me the wrong way from the start. I dont know if OP was bad mouthing hunt test dogs or just describing his experience.
We hunted with hunt test dogs alot lately, that never seen stick ponds, and ran blinds like pros, other times we had two dogs in the water at a time, we have had dogs coming in with a bird and other birds dropping in the water( only shooting up High , of course)
Some of the dogs were on there first real hunt. Have also had my bitch act like an idiot on her first duck hunt, and she was coming into heat. After the heat she was like a pro


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

You know, I thought the OP was telling an amusing story about his experience with a dog's first real field experience. I also read it as a tale of of the poster's foibles too. I didn't think he was bashing hunt test dogs or ridiculing those who participate. This could have been almost any dog on its first hunt, especially if there really were lots of birds and lots of action. To me the post was reminiscent of tales told by folks like Havela Babcock, Ed Zern, or Pat McManus (although not on the same level) I think most of the sound and fury here was over nothing. Try looking at it that way and have a chuckle. I've been watching this from the beginning and I think ya'll need to lighten up and have a laugh.

Oh, and if you can ruin a dog in one hunt, I'm sorry, but that dog doesn't belong in the field.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

HPL said:


> You know, I thought the OP was telling an amusing story about his experience with a dog's first real field experience. I also read it as a tale of of the poster's foibles too. I didn't think he was bashing hunt test dogs or ridiculing those who participate. This could have been almost any dog on its first hunt, especially if there really were lots of birds and lots of action. To me the post was reminiscent of tales told by folks like Havela Babcock, Ed Zern, or Pat McManus (although not on the same level) I think most of the sound and fury here was over nothing. Try looking at it that way and have a chuckle. I've been watching this from the beginning and I think ya'll need to lighten up and have a laugh.
> 
> Oh, and if you can ruin a dog in one hunt, I'm sorry, but that dog doesn't belong in the field.


I agree

.


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

M&K's Retrievers said:


> Every dog is gonna break. It's just a matter of when.


I know of a group that took 3 MH's fresh off the Master Nat to Nodak and all 3 broke when the birds hit the field. lol


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## Tman22 (Oct 6, 2011)

Besides working a gobbler in close and working a lab nothing else compares to me.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

HPL said:


> You know, I thought the OP was telling an amusing story about his experience with a dog's first real field experience. I also read it as a tale of of the poster's foibles too. I didn't think he was bashing hunt test dogs or ridiculing those who participate. This could have been almost any dog on its first hunt, especially if there really were lots of birds and lots of action. To me the post was reminiscent of tales told by folks like Havela Babcock, Ed Zern, or Pat McManus (although not on the same level) I think most of the sound and fury here was over nothing. Try looking at it that way and have a chuckle. I've been watching this from the beginning and I think ya'll need to lighten up and have a laugh.
> 
> Oh, and if you can ruin a dog in one hunt, I'm sorry, but that dog doesn't belong in the field.


THANK YOU That's exactly what I was going for, I was hoping to get a few other amusing antidotes from others taking a dog higher level or whatever out in the wild for the first time. Too bad we can't enjoy amusing stories about our dogs without going into a political debate. Chill-Pills all around


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

Sorry if I took the post wrong but I did think it was a bash the hunt test dogs thread.
If that was not the case it was a pretty funny thread. And I have had some of those experiences, but I just like to have fun and make the best of it even if a dog is acting goofy, but if its to goofy it will be put back in the truck.
I remember one of my dogs first lay out blind experiences. A freind of mine wich is a guide took us on a buddy hunt and he warned me about trying to get my dog used to laying between my feet in the blind with his head covered up. I spent most of the hunt with my gun laying down and bear hugging my dog to keep him from popping open the blind. My arms were soar the next day, but we still had fun. I left him in the truck the next morning.
He said he would always bring his dogs into the house and have them sit in a layout with him while watching TV to get them use to it


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

HPL said:


> You know, I thought the OP was telling an amusing story about his experience with a dog's first real field experience. I also read it as a tale of of the poster's foibles too. I didn't think he was bashing hunt test dogs or ridiculing those who participate. This could have been almost any dog on its first hunt, especially if there really were lots of birds and lots of action. To me the post was reminiscent of tales told by folks like Havela Babcock, Ed Zern, or Pat McManus (although not on the same level) I think most of the sound and fury here was over nothing. Try looking at it that way and have a chuckle. I've been watching this from the beginning and I think ya'll need to lighten up and have a laugh.
> 
> Oh, and if you can ruin a dog in one hunt, I'm sorry, but that dog doesn't belong in the field.


Sorry I totally disagree, this is a retriever training forum. If the original poster had said how not to take a TEST dog on a first hunt disclaimer then I would agree and laugh.

What type example does this set for a newbie that is relying ont this forum to help train his dog? Its ok to laugh off this behavior? I just feel sorry for the dogs owner that has to correct the breaking, the hiding in the blind, and other assorted mistakes made by his friend that took his dog on its first hunt/

Ode to Felanie "being nice is so 2011"


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> THANK YOU That's exactly what I was going for, I was hoping to get a few other amusing antidotes from others taking a dog higher level or whatever out in the wild for the first time. Too bad we can't enjoy amusing stories about our dogs without going into a political debate. Chill-Pills all around


Sorry didn't know it was a comedy play. Thought it was a real hunt. Should have known not that many things could have gone wrong in one hunt.

My bad regards,


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

I do just the opposite, I take my huntings dogs hunt testing. All my dogs hunt before ever entering a test. You get the same results
1.What is this holding blind thing?
2. why is that kid moving around in the gun station where my birds are coming from?
3. why it that dude waving a clipboard over my head?
4. why are all those dogs barking?
5. why is my handler sitting on a bucket instead of hiding in a duck blind?
6. wow my handler just killed a bird at 100+ yrds!


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

duk4me said:


> I challenge you to do that this week without cheating or being on private land. My cousin's son is a minor leauge ball player and off for the winter. He is passionate about duck hunting as in scouting and hunting everday of the season.
> 
> Guess what he is doing this week, Crappie fishing on Wright Patman. He too killed a bunch of ducks the first week.


He might should be hunting. Located several hundred today....mostly mallards. Should be a good morning.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

Have to laugh at this, knowing the dog, the handler, and the place they hunted. The person that posted owns a meat dog that the person also decided to put a MH on just for fun. They were hunting at a private duck club and were in the blind with the owner of the club, who has at times trained the dog and trains with the owner of the dog. I don't think the person has run many field trials but has placed in one of the top spots in the SRS one year he ran SRS. 
I did like watching the dog work today, he was only a little bit creepy today but that is in his nature. He is just a little inexperienced and young right now. Would have been nice if they could have gotten him out of the backyard in the previous month to get a little bit of exposure. And the excitement of being on a dog truck and all kinds of other new things can be a bit overwhelming. I can picture and am sure the pup did everyone of those things.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Dman said:


> He might should be hunting. Located several hundred today....mostly mallards. Should be a good morning.


Yep they just moved into the area and as usual I can't go till Tuesday.


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## ArcticGundogs (May 21, 2011)

sounds like it was an experience...and FUN!


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## PocketLab (Apr 23, 2010)

labman63 said:


> I do just the opposite, I take my huntings dogs hunt testing. All my dogs hunt before ever entering a test. You get the same results
> 1.What is this holding blind thing?
> 2. why is that kid moving around in the gun station where my birds are coming from?
> 3. why it that dude waving a clipboard over my head?
> ...



Should have seen my dogs face when I shot 3 times and 3 birds fell....


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

duk4me said:


> Sorry didn't know it was a comedy play. Thought it was a real hunt. Should have known not that many things could have gone wrong in one hunt.
> 
> My bad regards,


 
I also did not know. 
I read the OP just the way you did.
Thought.... "Great, another idjut bashing test/trial dogs!"
a little smilie face or sumpthin would have helped us know it was all a lie


.


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

I didn't say that I thought it was a lie. Sounded pretty possible to me. 

In all seriousness, I am going to have to re-evaluate my opinion of you, Mr. Bora. I had gotten the impression that you had a sense of humor and didn't go out looking for insults. I don't play ya'll's game. I just hunt my dogs, (and love them like family members) and have never had the benefit of living close to a professional trainer nor the funds or desire to send my dogs away to be trained. I have had the pleasure of hunting with some folks who had very fine dogs (never with one that was perfect), and the pure unadulterated joy of seeing my own adequate dog bring back a bird that I would never have recovered on my own. Personally I enjoy telling the funny stories about when things didn't go exactly right just as much as the ones when it went just as planned. Seems to me that all you guys that took offense must have a chip on your shoulders, looking to be offended. I was truly surprised to hear you, Ken, chime in with that group.

HPL


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Ken Bora said:


> I also did not know.
> I read the OP just the way you did.
> Thought.... "Great, another idjut bashing test/trial dogs!"
> a little smilie face or sumpthin would have helped us know it was all a lie
> ...


Wow, it's funny how we all perceive things differently, especially when it comes to posts on the internet. I think I was the third person to reply to his original post and I hadn't been back to follow up, I'm surprised at how his post was perceived by others. I'm a guy who really believes that, after some hunting experience, well trained hunt test and field trial dogs make wonderful hunters. I sure didn't take the OP as a slam on hunt test dogs at all, just a funny illustration of how mind boggling a real hunt could be for a dog who has never hunted before.

John


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

Bingo! I believe that was it!


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

I talked to one of the people there and yes it did happen. And the OP is a she not a he, and he OP is a big supporter of HT's and is the Treasurer and Secretary and founding member of a HT club amd also goes to all the HT's within about 500 miles.


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## Loddog (Jan 6, 2012)

labman63 said:


> I do just the opposite, I take my huntings dogs hunt testing. All my dogs hunt before ever entering a test. You get the same results
> 1.What is this holding blind thing?
> 2. why is that kid moving around in the gun station where my birds are coming from?
> 3. why it that dude waving a clipboard over my head?
> ...


LOL! #6 killed me.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Took My friends SH- almost MH dog out hunting, he had never been. It was probably one of the funnest experience I have had this year. Good Shooting and a 1.5 year fully trained dog, out in the blind that had never seen a wild duck.
> 
> Talk about culture shock, We had that pups mind spinning by the end of the day. So things a dog learns on his first hunting experience. :shock::shock::shock:
> 
> ...


Bump, thought we might get back to the original post. I stand by each of my post. 

Hunt em up I have no quarrell with you or anyone else. I just felt a 16 yr old kid would read this and think this was acceptable. Obviously to some it is acceptable behavior. Not to me.

That being said I can see it could be humourous, just not if it was one of my dogs.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Aw man the thread lost a star.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

duk4me said:


> Bump, thought we might get back to the original post. I stand by each of my post.
> 
> Hunt em up I have no quarrell with you or anyone else. I just felt a 16 yr old kid would read this and think this was acceptable. Obviously to some it is acceptable behavior. Not to me.
> 
> That being said I can see it could be humourous, just not if it was one of my dogs.


I guess I missed your earlier post, but other than letting the dog break (wrong way) 100 yards, I didn't see any huge issues. I don't get the 100 yards the wrong way, it must have been on land and nobody was watching the dog. I have had my dog jump out the front side of my boat blind on release, when I shot an incoming overhead bird that actually falls behind the boat. But I don't let the dog go far before I handle him around the boat to the bird. All the other seven points were humerous, truthful and didn't demonstrate bad dog training, just the reality of duck hunting.

Duk4me, I see you are in NE Texas, do you train who do you train with? I train with Rob Erhardt and know Mark Edwards, do you train with either of them?

John


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

John Robinson said:


> I guess I missed your earlier post, but other than letting the dog break (wrong way) 100 yards, I didn't see any huge issues. I don't get the 100 yards the wrong way, it must have been on land and nobody was watching the dog. I have had my dog jump out the front side of my boat blind on release, when I shot an incoming overhead bird that actually falls behind the boat. But I don't let the dog go far before I handle him around the boat to the bird. All the other seven points were humerous, truthful and didn't demonstrate bad dog training, just the reality of duck hunting.
> 
> Duk4me, I see you are in NE Texas, do you train who do you train with? I train with Rob Erhardt and know Mark Edwards, do you train with either of them?
> 
> John


No John I do not train so I don't train with anyone. I only post on here to annoy people and I do NOT alter any of my post except for spelling or I give an explanation and that statement is not applied to you. Actually the only dogs I own are a couple of backyard bred mostly black labs. Pot lickers if you must.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

I laughed at the original post. Came close to describing some things that went on when I took my started, trying for intermediate, dog hunting the first time. 

Blew his mind, but he LOVED it.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Howard N said:


> I laughed at the original post. Came close to describing some things that went on when I took my started, trying for intermediate, dog hunting the first time.
> 
> Blew his mind, but he LOVED it.


Two distinctly different views of this thread and I can understand your laughing at the original post. 

Maybe we can all learn a little bit on this one.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

Well heard from a different person at the duck club this weekend who used the dog on Sunday because his dog wasn't able to come. So he took the dog and had a blast. He said the dog marked all the birds except one and handled like an old hand. No breaking, understood where the ducks were coming from, wasn't concerned with decoys, and flat just brought back all the ducks. 
It is amazing how quick the dogs can figure out everything when they start actually going hunting and they have all the tools and training.


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## Duxbwar (Jun 23, 2009)

It has always amazed me at the number of people in my retriever club, that come the end of HT season, ask me to save a few mallards for them because they do not hunt there dogs. I ran a SH test years ago at the Lee Kay center in Utah, it was early Spring and typical to Utah weather it was 80 degrees the first day and a blizzard the next. So much snow and wind that they actually thought about cancelling the test but one of the judges said that this was a hunting condition so we continued... After sending my dog from the line the judge turned to me and said she could tell I hunted my dog, I asked why she knew that, she said that she had not seen a dog yet on the line so focused on marks looking straight into a snow storm. Most would get to the line and look away and try and mark out of the corner of there eye.
It's just one of those things that make the world go around. When I started in Hunt Tests 14 years ago I assumed it was to keep your "meat dog" in shape, compete, and meet a great group of people.... It still is all these things but I have learned, at least in my area that very, very few of the HT dogs are hunted around here.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

labman63 said:


> wow my handler just shot a bird @ 100+ yards





PocketLab said:


> Should have seen my dogs face when I shot 3 times and 3 birds fell....


I think one of the main reason I do HT's just to improve my dog's opinion of my shooting ability, In an HRC test sometimes I can shoot 5 or 6 without missing 

Oh & the 100yrd the wrong way = fast dog, quick release, (not sure who released him but his name was said), running water, w/ another group of teal coming in from backside, and inability to find whistle btw 3 guys and multiple ~8 call lanyards, with guns in hand, in a pit. Really didn't expect him to go the wrong way that fast


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## duckkiller (Jan 18, 2012)

Brandoned said:


> My female has never broke at a trial (yet), but she is not very steady in the blind once the birds start falling and honestly I could careless if she is. I will not hunt with a dog that breaks when the birds are working or even sitting in the decoys, but when the guns start going off bring me the birds back and fast! I don't want to be chasing cripples around half the morning, therefore I think the dog should get there quick. I'm sure I don't hunt near as much as most of you do, so what do I know...
> 
> Another funny thing to me is to go pheasant hunting with someone that has a dog that is steady like the HRC dog's have got to be. You will loose half the pheasants you shoot doing that.


You seem pretty cocksure of yourself so this message is for others that may read this. 1st a dog breaking on the shot in a hunting situation is about one of the worst things a dog can do IMO. 1st, if we have other birds working after we shoot and I have dog that broke going out to get a duck and flares the current birds we are working just about puts me over the edge. Then the safety factor and the biggest reason. 99% of the time everything is fine it's that 1% that can make you drop to your knees. I don't hunt test, I just have hunting dogs and to lose one that way would just be tragic. Hunting is not a controlled situation so to think it can't happen is just not using yout head. We have had 1 or 2 close calls on breaking dogs getting almost shot and from that point forward any dog we had would be emediatly corrected. A breaking dog on a real hunt is just bad business.


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## rholton (Oct 26, 2010)

I agree that it takes time. Took my 2 year old (2 passes away from MH) to Arkansas last week for the first time. The combination of the lid from the blind being thrown back with 20 or so ducks right in front of him and then three people jumping up and blasting away did cause a couple of controlled breaks. He basically jumped out of the blind and stood watching the ducks before I corrected him...I wasnt shooting on the first several volleys; just working my dog. He did jump clear over the lid behind us after being sent on a bird we shot back there. After about the third set of ducks, he was watching the sky...he has always done this pretty well. His biggest issue being from South GA was ice the last day. It didnt really slow him down, he just couldnt figure out how to stay on top of it as it would break just as he got his footing. Tons of compliments from the guides and from the customers I took hunting. Picked up nine limits (54) of ducks in three days.


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

duckkiller said:


> You seem pretty cocksure of yourself so this message is for others that may read this. 1st a dog breaking on the shot in a hunting situation is about one of the worst things a dog can do IMO. 1st, if we have other birds working after we shoot and I have dog that broke going out to get a duck and flares the current birds we are working just about puts me over the edge. Then the safety factor and the biggest reason. 99% of the time everything is fine it's that 1% that can make you drop to your knees. I don't hunt test, I just have hunting dogs and to lose one that way would just be tragic. Hunting is not a controlled situation so to think it can't happen is just not using yout head. We have had 1 or 2 close calls on breaking dogs getting almost shot and from that point forward any dog we had would be emediatly corrected. A breaking dog on a real hunt is just bad business.


Kind of funny that you just created an account and you have so much to say! Hunt the way you hunt and I'll hunt the way I hunt! Either way "Duckkiller" don't think you have got to hide behind a computer screen if you have a comment to make....


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## duckkiller (Jan 18, 2012)

Brandoned said:


> Kind of funny that you just created an account and you have so much to say! Hunt the way you hunt and I'll hunt the way I hunt! Either way "Duckkiller" don't think you have got to hide behind a computer screen if you have a comment to make....


 
No problem Brandon. I wasn't talking to you anyways. It's obvious you have all the answers. I am trying to help others who might want to have a dog that doesn't have a control problem while in the blind. 

The reason I created my account is because I am new to this Forum and am always willing to learn from others but not new to duck hunting and people who know all (or think so anyways). You keep doing what your doing. Your dog would never be welcome to hunt with me but once and would be asked to either leave behind or work with him to learn not to break or don't come. If you are crippling that many birds you may want to learn how to place decoys or call better.


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

duckkiller said:


> No problem Brandon. I wasn't talking to you anyways. It's obvious you have all the answers. I am trying to help others who might want to have a dog that doesn't have a control problem while in the blind.
> 
> The reason I created my account is because I am new to this Forum and am always willing to learn from others but not new to duck hunting and people who know all (or think so anyways). You keep doing what your doing. Your dog would never be welcome to hunt with me but once and would be asked to either leave behind or work with him to learn not to break or don't come. If you are crippling that many birds you may want to learn how to place decoys or call better.


You know I had typed up what I was feeling about you and the many others that hide behind a screen name, then I deleted it because you like so many others are not worth spending the time pi$$ing back and forth with! Never claimed to have any answers, dang sure don't have all the answers like you do! That's what "You hunt the way you hunt and I will hunt the way I hunt" means!!

Also don't flatter yourself into thinking I would ever even care to hunt with you! As far as the cripple & decoy comment; this weekend 60 ducks for 5 hunters and only had one cripple each day and neither were lost. 

Take care whoever you are "Duckkiller" lol, I have nothing more to say on this thread!


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Some threads have a slow and tortuous death.............


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## Travis Wright (Mar 3, 2003)

I like hunt tests.

I love duck hunting.

I think training dogs is the coolest.

This is the best website ever!

Have a great day!

Travis


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## BobOwens (Jul 30, 2011)

I absolutely love watching a dog learn during the hunts... it's what their made to do! So rewarding


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