# Grady Pups



## nick_wilburn (Jun 30, 2012)

While not trying to start and argument. Lets ask the questions what does everyone think of all the Grady pups. Are they what everyone thinks they are or is everyone breeding to him because it is the "Cool Stud" ? I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such. Are we doing the sport a favor by using him in almost every litter at this point. look at the pedigrees of today and you will see that 2 or 3 stud dogs tend to dominate all breeding and at some point in the last three generations. Are we setting ourselves up for failure?


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Good topic. I hope you get some input/feedback.



nick_wilburn said:


> While not trying to start and argument. Lets ask the questions what does everyone think of all the Grady pups. Are they what everyone thinks they are or is everyone breeding to him because it is the "Cool Stud" ? I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such. Are we doing the sport a favor by using him in almost every litter at this point. look at the pedigrees of today and you will see that 2 or 3 stud dogs tend to dominate all breeding and at some point in the last three generations. Are we setting ourselves up for failure?


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

I just looked at the first page of the lab litters advertised on this forum and only saw two Grady litters. I admit that he's been bred a ton, but that's the way it works in field labs. Popular stud syndrome is alive and well. But there are lots of other studs being bred, as well. Since he has been bred so much to so many different bitches, I don't think you are going to be able to say, "Grady pups are...." about anything. There's going to be lots of variability based on the dam side of the pedigree. I've only trained a handful of Grady pups, all from the same litter, and they were pretty nice dogs. Nothing "hard-headed" that I saw in those pups. I'm sure that there are Grady pups out there that are difficult to train. There are also Grady pups out there that have been VERY successful in field trials and hunt tests. I suspect that some of those were very easy to train.
But I sure don't think that we are "using him in almost every litter at this point". One man's opinion.


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## TJ Shanahan (Dec 14, 2007)

nick_wilburn said:


> While not trying to start and argument. Lets ask the questions what does everyone think of all the Grady pups. Are they what everyone thinks they are or is everyone breeding to him because it is the "Cool Stud" ? I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such. Are we doing the sport a favor by using him in almost every litter at this point. look at the pedigrees of today and you will see that 2 or 3 stud dogs tend to dominate all breeding and at some point in the last three generations. Are we setting ourselves up for failure?


Is your question about Grady specifically or more general on the principle of line breeding using Grady only as the more recent example?


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

nick_wilburn said:


> I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such.


I have a grady pup and know a bunch of them. This has not been my experience. I think if it were the case, there would be far fewer breedings and definitely way fewer repeat breedings.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

nick_wilburn said:


> While not trying to start and argument. Lets ask the questions what does everyone think of all the Grady pups. Are they what everyone thinks they are or is everyone breeding to him because it is the "Cool Stud" ? I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such. Are we doing the sport a favor by using him in almost every litter at this point. look at the pedigrees of today and you will see that 2 or 3 stud dogs tend to dominate all breeding and at some point in the last three generations. Are we setting ourselves up for failure?


Your premise and passing along hearsay is not fair to the sire or the connections of the Sire..maybe the Dam's werent a good combination..The people that chose to use him as a sire probably had a multitude of reasons, including being able to sell the litter based on Grady's popularity...What will help cement him as an all time great stud will be when his progeny wins (which they already have in Traveler) and when his offspring produce champions, similar to the Lean Mac>Chavez dynamic..

Its still way too early to measure the success of Grady as a Sire, lets wait a few years and see how his early crop pans out before any judgements are passed...

Its just like I tell people when the conversation goes to a dog like Cosmo..sometimes his on line internet reputation far exceeds reality and when certain myths about a dog get passed around like its common knowledge it makes me cringe and also makes me shake my head in disgust of how people will pass along gossip about a dog that they couldnt pick out in a lineup let alone an unmarked picture


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


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## Eric Fryer (May 23, 2006)

nick_wilburn said:


> Are they what everyone thinks they are or is everyone breeding to him because it is the "Cool Stud" ? I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such.


I can't speak for everybody, but I can speak for myself. I own a Grady dog, hands down the best dog I have ever owned!! Was/ is not hard headed, easy to train, good attitude, nice in the house. Took a little while to mature, but did. The dog's talent far out weighs my training and handling talent, his biggest downfall. I would buy another in a heartbeat.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

*The sire is only half of the equation of a pup. To *​base how a pup turns out is only half right. Picking a pup is a crap shoot in any litter.


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

I have one and she is calm and easy going, very smart and runs like a deer. I had another one that was wild and a little crazy. So two totally different dogs how can anyone say it was Grady and not the dams? He has sired a NAFC and at least one FC that I have trained with not to mention all of the derby dogs that have won or placed. They must not be to hard headed.


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

If anyone has a Grady pup they don't want I'll take him.


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

.44 magnum said:


> If anyone has a Grady pup they don't want I'll take him.


I second that for sure.


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## A team (Jun 30, 2011)

Sundown49 aka Otey B said:


> *The sire is only half of the equation of a pup. To *​base how a pup turns out is only half right. Picking a pup is a crap shoot in any litter.


BINGO!

I would go one step further and say that the sire is only 1/3 of the equation. 

I own a Grady pup and she's hands down the most talented dog I've ever owned, but I knew the bitch and the bitch was a very talented bitch. My pup is a very hard driver, great marker and very tractable.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Sires are typically viewed historically by the best individuals they produce not the worst. In almost every litter with exceptional individuals there were also probably marginal to worthless individuals. There are a few exceptions but not many.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

I have a Grady daughter. Shes got more personality than almost any dog Ive ever had(except for my first dog Spooky). Stubborn and hard headed, she is not. Very willing and a tad sensitive . I love her. She did not pass OFA but I would probably take another Grady pup if I had the oppurtunity.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

EdA said:


> Sires are typically viewed historically by the best individuals they produce not the worst. In almost every litter with exceptional individuals there were also probably marginal to worthless individuals. There are a few exceptions but not many.


Dr. Ed is right. In a litter you are going to get good to marginal pups. How "good" that good pup becomes depends on where that pups goes -- what his owner does with the pup, who trains the pup, and the ability of the trainer. A marginal pup can become a good pup if he/she ends up with an exceptional trainer who can get the most out of the pup.

This is true no matter who the sire is. 

Keep in mind, the bitch brings herself and what's behind her to the table. Sometimes even the greatest bitch (and her pedigree) does not nick with the sire. There are no guarantees.

Helen


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

.44 magnum said:


> If anyone has a Grady pup they don't want I'll take him.


i have a very nice one in the "started dog" classified section now! you and steve should call me!


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## Kajun Kamakazi (May 17, 2011)

I have a Grady pup at my house that I'm training as a gundog for a friend that is anything but "hard-headed". Very biddable and eager to please and an excellent marker. His only flaw is laziness which is why he was washed out. I still really like him as a dog though and wouldn't be against another one.


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## carolinaonmymind (Nov 22, 2011)

I lucked into/happened to get a Grady washout,didnt know who Grady was, thought he hung out with Fred Sanford, if he had someone other than myself training him he would be soooo much better, but that said he is the best dog I have ever had as a hunter or pet. Not hard headed, easy in the house and a pleasure


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

Seriously?????????
You expect some one with credibility to come on a public forum that is not closely censored or controlled and say that he / she has a NFC sired pup and it is not any good?
That is like the ones that ask about trainer XYZ, "Is he any good"? What do you expect? Someone to publicly post that the trainer sucks?
Got to be kidding me.
MP


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Mike Perry said:


> Seriously?????????
> You expect some one with credibility to come on a public forum that is not closely censored or controlled and say that he / she has a *NAFC* sired pup and it is not any good?
> That is like the ones that ask about trainer XYZ, "Is he any good"? What do you expect? Someone to publicly post that the trainer sucks?
> Got to be kidding me.
> MP


Fixed it for ya. 

You're right though. There's not going to be a lot of negative things put on here. The OP should have asked for pms about the negatives or other opinions. Some things you'll never hear about on public forums and keep them that way to those who are privy to the subject.


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Sure, why not? After all it is a public forum correct? Take the good with the bad or go grow some thicker skin.




Mike Perry said:


> Seriously?????????
> You expect some one with credibility to come on a public forum that is not closely censored or controlled and say that he / she has a NFC sired pup and it is not any good?
> That is like the ones that ask about trainer XYZ, "Is he any good"? What do you expect? Someone to publicly post that the trainer sucks?
> Got to be kidding me.
> MP


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

My first Grady dog is the one of the smartest , most willing dogs I have ever met or trained , of all breeds. ( thousands of dogs in my 25 yr career in dogs) I just bought a sister of the repeat breeding


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## Bally's Gun Dogs (Jul 28, 2010)

We had a Grady litter that turned two this past January. All 7 went to competitive homes (we kept one). To date, have derby finishes and placement, qual placements and one qaa, seasoned titles and running finished, senior titles and about to run masters. A little tougher to get through the yard, but that could be from bitch side too. Some of the smartest dogs we have ever trained (we trained four of the seven). Only one that didn't make the cut was the one we kept for ourselves, she may have with more time to mature, but we didn't wait and see found her a nice family hunting home where she's happy! Would I repeat the breeding, ABSOLUTELY!


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## Labs a mundo (Mar 20, 2009)

nick_wilburn said:


> While not trying to start and argument. Lets ask the questions what does everyone think of all the Grady pups. Are they what everyone thinks they are or is everyone breeding to him because it is the "Cool Stud" ? I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such. Are we doing the sport a favor by using him in almost every litter at this point. look at the pedigrees of today and you will see that 2 or 3 stud dogs tend to dominate all breeding and at some point in the last three generations. Are we setting ourselves up for failure?


Hmmmm....interesting question / comment. To think that people would purchase a Grady pup because he is a " cool stud" strikes me as a little nearsighted. A better reason might be because he is a proven producer.
My 2 1/2 yr. Grady male pup earned his Can AFC in June and has collected 11 all-age points this year. He was also hightg point Can Jr. (Derby) last year along with 18 Qual Points. He's a pretty good dog. 100% amateur trained, albeit with some very good advice from seasoned trainers.
His dam is an impressive fully titled Chopper bitch and I believe the combo of the 2 parents have created a little powerhouse in my young dog.

So in my case, yes, we are doing the sport a favour and I don't think we are setting ourselves up for failure.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Labs a mundo said:


> Hmmmm....interesting question / comment. To think that people would purchase a Grady pup because he is a " cool stud" strikes me as a little nearsighted. A better reason might be because he is a proven producer.
> My 2 1/2 yr. Grady male pup earned his Can AFC in June and has collected 11 all-age points this year. He was also hightg point Can Jr. (Derby) last year along with 18 Qual Points. He's a pretty good dog. 100% amateur trained, albeit with some very good advice from seasoned trainers.
> His dam is an impressive fully titled Chopper bitch and I believe the combo of the 2 parents have created a little powerhouse in my young dog.
> 
> So in my case, yes, we are doing the sport a favour and I don't think we are setting ourselves up for failure.


I'm looking for the "APPLAUSE" icon but cannot find it. Oh well. To the OP, your post is disrespectful and unwarranted or you have some questionable sources. Other than that, I have a really nice female that had a litter by Cosmo and had a litter by Grady. Both litters were nice. Did I say how much I liked my female? Anyway if I had had to choose, I personally liked the pups from the Grady litter better but that's only the start. So be it.

Mundo, ma'am, I agree with ya. Harry


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Just my experience but I like the Grady girls, I've seen several girls from 2-3 different litters/different dams, they are all great markers, tractable, intelligent, pick up things very quickly with style, sometimes a bit to much steam to over-run their brains but when your talking 1yr old dogs finishing up transition work; that's to be expected. The boys I've seen, are much slower to mature, they have drive, can mark, but they seem softer, and they don't pick up things as fast as the females from the same litters. This might come across as being hard-headed, if your trying to push a young male to keep up with litter mates, but I think it's a lack of maturity more than anything else. The boys have turned out a lot bigger than the girls, maybe that's why they take more aging. A friend of mine has an older Grady boy (~2.5+ yrs), he's come around and caught up with his siblings, some dogs just need more time, before things click. I probably wouldn't go out of my way to find a Grady dog, but if he was paired to the right Bitch, I wouldn't say NO .

On the mass breeding to the stud of the month, it'll be fine for the first generation, the 2nd &3rd is where the issues might pop-up. We'll get more and more line-breeding, and we'll see recessives come out. Such has already happened with earlier mass used stud dogs. Now what the results of those recessives will be (more talent, a quirk or a genetic problem is a toss up). My theory is we'll see more of Grady himself in the 2nd & 3rd generation, particularly the males out of female Grady pups as Grady's X chromosome will once more be available to the males. I seem to like the impact of his X chromosome, in most of his litters I'm familiar, with so I might be looking at those offspring.


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

John, I would do that if my HVAC man had not just replaced my entire system. Took all my dadgum fun money for the time being. And we are still not finished.



roseberry said:


> i have a very nice one in the "started dog" classified section now! you and steve should call me!


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## Twin Willows Labs (Feb 4, 2014)

I think Chad Baker knows of at least one Grady pup that did OK. Maybe I'm "up a creek" on that one.


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## fishin444 (Apr 23, 2012)

My Grady male is one of the best dogs I've ever owned. He got his SH this spring and was very easy to train. My only concern is he is deceptively fast runner that I have to be careful when running him. To date he has sired three litters for me. The last two were 9 pups and 10 pups, currently for sale on RTN ( shameless plug ). I have absloutely no complaints with this dog out of Grady. Same goes for two of the people in my training group who have Grady pups.


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## John Gianladis (Jun 23, 2012)

There are 3 major considerations in picking a stud dog: Pedigree, Performance, and Production. Let's look at Grady for a minute. His pedigree is awesome (Code Blue x Lean Mac lines), His performance increadible (high point Open dog, NAFC title, great points-per-start average as a Derby dog and as an All-age dog), and production, well, the proof is in the pudding (To date: 2012 NAFC, 2 High point Derby dogs, Multiple FC and AFC progeny, lots and lots of pups on the Derby list earning lots and lots of points). There are also some intangibles such as the fact that Grady overcame a very debilitating injury from a grass awn, which resulted in loosing lung tissue and ribs due to necrosis. Despite this he went on to qualify for more Nationals and win the National Am in 2011. He's as fun to hang out with in the house or at the lake as he was to watch run. A thoroughbred for sure, and quite a character. I had the pleasure to watch Grady progress from a young dog since I was leaving in NC at that time. I had planned on breeding to him well before he had a title because he's that impressive of an animal. In short, Grady could do things as a retriever on a regular basis that most dogs will never do. He's a very God blessed animal that thankfully can pass on his great traits. He is easily one of the best and most important stud dogs of his generation. In reference to the original post of this thread, my guess is the poster was simply misinformed. If anything, the majority of his offspring can be described as vey tractable. The reason Grady has been bred a lot goes back to Pedigree, Performance, and Production. Like Lean Mac, Grady has done a lot to improve the quality of dogs we have today. His impact on the breed and the sport will be appreciated for a long time!


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

John gianladis said:


> There are 3 major considerations in picking a stud dog: Pedigree, Performance, and Production. Let's look at Grady for a minute. His pedigree is awesome (Code Blue x Lean Mac lines), His performance increadible (high point Open dog, NAFC title, great points-per-start average as a Derby dog and as an All-age dog), and production, well, the proof is in the pudding (To date: 2012 NAFC, 2 High point Derby dogs, Multiple FC and AFC progeny, lots and lots of pups on the Derby list earning lots and lots of points). There are also some intangibles such as the fact that Grady overcame a very debilitating injury from a grass awn, which resulted in loosing lung tissue and ribs due to necrosis. Despite this he went on to qualify for more Nationals and win the National Am in 2011. He's as fun to hang out with in the house or at the lake as he was to watch run. A thoroughbred for sure, and quite a character. I had the pleasure to watch Grady progress from a young dog since I was leaving in NC at that time. I had planned on breeding to him well before he had a title because he's that impressive of an animal. In short, Grady could do things as a retriever on a regular basis that most dogs will never do. He's a very God blessed animal that thankfully can pass on his great traits. He is easily one of the best and most important stud dogs of his generation. In reference to the original post of this thread, my guess is the poster was simply misinformed. If anything, the majority of his offspring can be described as vey tractable. The reason Grady has been bred a lot goes back to Pedigree, Performance, and Production. Like Lean Mac, Grady has done a lot to improve the quality of dogs we have today. His impact on the breed and the sport will be appreciated for a long time!


HERE! HERE! Bravo....


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## JBlack (Sep 17, 2003)

Very well said John!


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

John gianladis said:


> There are 3 major considerations in picking a stud dog: Pedigree, Performance, and Production. Let's look at Grady for a minute. His pedigree is awesome (Code Blue x Lean Mac lines), His performance increadible (high point Open dog, NAFC title, great points-per-start average as a Derby dog and as an All-age dog), and production, well, the proof is in the pudding (To date: 2012 NAFC, 2 High point Derby dogs, Multiple FC and AFC progeny, lots and lots of pups on the Derby list earning lots and lots of points). There are also some intangibles such as the fact that Grady overcame a very debilitating injury from a grass awn, which resulted in loosing lung tissue and ribs due to necrosis. Despite this he went on to qualify for more Nationals and win the National Am in 2011. He's as fun to hang out with in the house or at the lake as he was to watch run. A thoroughbred for sure, and quite a character. I had the pleasure to watch Grady progress from a young dog since I was leaving in NC at that time. I had planned on breeding to him well before he had a title because he's that impressive of an animal. In short, Grady could do things as a retriever on a regular basis that most dogs will never do. He's a very God blessed animal that thankfully can pass on his great traits. He is easily one of the best and most important stud dogs of his generation. In reference to the original post of this thread, my guess is the poster was simply misinformed. If anything, the majority of his offspring can be described as vey tractable. The reason Grady has been bred a lot goes back to Pedigree, Performance, and Production. Like Lean Mac, Grady has done a lot to improve the quality of dogs we have today. His impact on the breed and the sport will be appreciated for a long time!


Hell of a good first post on the forum... Nice!

(After being registered for two years). Walk softly and carry a big stick!


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Thanks Johnny G for the kind words.
Just to add a few more facts from my feeble memory 
There are 13 FC/AFC's so far.
2 US high Point Derby Dogs-Carolina's Half Moon 79 points and Keeno's Cisco 64 points
1 High Point Jr Dog in canada
2013-3 of the top 10 derby dogs
2012- 6 on the derby list
2011-3 of the top 10 derby dogs 
2010- 2 of the top 5 derby dogs- Carolina's Half Moon and #3 Keeno's Gizmo
2013-#3 High point Am Dog -Hockley Creek's Big Hitter

He had 6 dogs qualified for this past national Am
21 dogs on the 2013 national derby list
Over 115 QAA dogs to date
17 dogs were running last years master national
Apparently there are a few judges that hold the books on the weekends that like his pups.
Just to put things into perspective he is 10 yrs old and his oldest pups are 6. He really just likes to go hunting and riding the jet ski in his old age and sleeping with the kids. 
Thanks go out to all the Grady pup owners who took a chance on buying a pup from him. Not all the litters are going to work out but we sure are proud that a few have.
Chad


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## sunnydee (Oct 15, 2009)

The black dog in my Avatar is a Grady pup and the yellow one is his mom. I truly believe that one day there will be an AFC or FC or both in front of his name and the traits that was past on from his father will have a lot to do with it.


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## Jeff Wyatt (Jul 31, 2009)

I couldn't be happier with my Grady female!

Chad was very generous helping me find the right litter. 

Proof is in the numbers. 

Thanks to Grady and Chad! Proud to know you both.


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## nick_wilburn (Jun 30, 2012)

So Grady is great we have established that the real questions is if everyone and there brother breeds to him what do we have, a bunch of grady pups and in 3 or 4 generations where are we when those little resessive genes start showing up. I think most people breed to Grady simply because he is the flavor of the month. They don't take into account what he is or isn't bringing to the table and the same can be said for other sire's as well. It is my whole hearted belief that we are setting ourselves and this sport up for failure if we continue this flavor of the month breeding program. And I am not just singling out Grady. There are other Flavors out there. Grady just happens to be the flavor that is In style.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

nick_wilburn said:


> So Grady is great we have established that the real questions is if everyone and there brother breeds to him what do we have, a bunch of grady pups and in 3 or 4 generations where are we when those little resessive genes start showing up. I think most people breed to Grady simply because he is the flavor of the month. They don't take into account what he is or isn't bringing to the table and the same can be said for other sire's as well. It is my whole hearted belief that we are setting ourselves and this sport up for failure if we continue this flavor of the month breeding program. And I am not just singling out Grady. There are other Flavors out there. Grady just happens to be the flavor that is In style.


Lets take Grady out of the equation so we dont make it personal, even though it seems that you have an axe to grind...

One of the considerations when choosing a stud dog for your female is that you have to find a stud that will help sell your litter,the ideal stud may be the exact fit you want if you were picking a mate for a single pup, but that dog may be a lightly campaigned dog, or one that is deceased, or maybe even untitled..BUT if that dog cant help sell your litter you are stuck

As for being the flavor of the month, not in this particular case..Grady may very well end up being the Lean Mac of this decade...if he continues to produce winners and the litters that he sires sell, the market will dictate his continued popularity

Even at Baskin Robbins or Blue Bell, the flavor of the month becomes a classic and is sold year round ;-);-)


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

nick_wilburn said:


> So Grady is great we have established that the real questions is if everyone and there brother breeds to him what do we have, a bunch of grady pups and in 3 or 4 generations where are we when those little resessive genes start showing up. I think most people breed to Grady simply because he is the flavor of the month. They don't take into account what he is or isn't bringing to the table and the same can be said for other sire's as well. It is my whole hearted belief that we are setting ourselves and this sport up for failure if we continue this flavor of the month breeding program. And I am not just singling out Grady. There are other Flavors out there. Grady just happens to be the flavor that is In style.


I think you are selling breeders and buyers short. When looking at pedigrees of pups, I certainly try to take into account what both the sire and dam take to the table and would only use a breeder that does that and more. Some may not, but I think this is a very flawed generalization.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

nick_wilburn said:


> So Grady is great we have established that the real questions is if everyone and there brother breeds to him what do we have, a bunch of grady pups and in 3 or 4 generations where are we when those little resessive genes start showing up. I think most people breed to Grady simply because he is the flavor of the month. They don't take into account what he is or isn't bringing to the table and the same can be said for other sire's as well. It is my whole hearted belief that we are setting ourselves and this sport up for failure if we continue this flavor of the month breeding program. And I am not just singling out Grady. There are other Flavors out there. Grady just happens to be the flavor that is In style.


I'm thinking you don't plan on breeding to Grady?


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## Labs a mundo (Mar 20, 2009)

Chad, I hope you're sitting back having a big old chuckle :roll:


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Has Grady ever been bred to anything less than a Master titled bitch?


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## Powder1 (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm very disappointed in my Grady pup. He's now roughly 2 1/2 and finished his Derby career with 18 points (limited trials) and ONLY had one win (bad dog). QAA at 26 months with a 2nd (terrible). About a month later a 1st in the Q and then approx one month after that another 1st. 

What was he thinking? He can't run the Q anymore. I think he got those two blues so he didn't have to run anymore trials (lazy, hard headed dog). Little does he know what's coming very soon.

Would I have another Grady pup? Hell no! Grady sucks


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

stonybrook said:


> Has Grady ever been bred to anything less than a Master titled bitch?


Yes. I bred my untitled bitch to him to get a pup for myself. She was a cute little pup we called Stella. Now we call her GRHRCH "Stella" MNH QAA.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

BonMallari said:


> Lets take Grady out of the equation so we dont make it personal, even though it seems that you have an axe to grind...
> 
> One of the considerations when choosing a stud dog for your female is that you have to find a stud that will help sell your litter,the ideal stud may be the exact fit you want if you were picking a mate for a single pup, but that dog may be a lightly campaigned dog, or one that is deceased, or maybe even untitled..BUT if that dog cant help sell your litter you are stuck
> 
> ...


I don't think it's about grinding anything. The problem is if you hear nothing but great things, you get an unrealistic view of things. I'm not saying anything bad, it's just something that needs to be said. I'm not sure about an official way to find out, but IMO, it's safe to say he's been bred to more titled bitches than the other breedings combined. I'd probably guess that it's at a fairly significant rate, too. Is Grady a very nice dog and has he had pups that do well?? That's an obvious yes. The original OP is asking something that a lot of people talk about in person, but won't do so on here. I'm not taking anything away from the dog or what he has produced, but when you have titled bitches in the equation that are sure enough fine dogs in their own right, it makes it a little easier. Do I think we do a disservice by breeding to him so much? No. Do I believe other dogs should get more breedings? You bet.


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

I had a Grady pup; I liked him a lot ... I lost him to cancer at 3 1/2 yo. If I could do it all over again I would... And I would have sunk way more money into training AND vet bills... Even if the result was the same....


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Well I guess that worked out pretty successfully that's for sure! Congrats!





TIM DOANE said:


> Yes. I bred my untitled bitch to him to get a pup for myself. She was a cute little pup we called Stella. Now we call her GRHRCH "Stella" MNH QAA.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Love mine, not hard headed at all and trained in textbook fashion. Dad has one too that he bought as a started dog and he's wonderful.


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

I practically begged my trainer to breed one of his dogs to Grady for 3 years. Finally talked him into doing it almost 3yrs ago. I have a pup from that litter and my trainer kept 2 of them for himself. My pup passed his 1st MH test at 16 months and titled at 18 months. I couldn't be any happier with my Grady dog and wouldn't trade him or get rid of him period. Flavor of the Month! Don't quite think that statement is going to pan out.


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

One thing you all should think about is he seems to throw good or excellent hips and normal elbows... nothing worse then a Sire that does not pass on soundness. 

http://offa.org/display.html?appnum=1210814#animal

http://offa.org/vertpedigree.html?appnum=1210814&registry=HD#animal

While the OFA is only those dogs who's owners sent in x-rays that is very impressive... So while you may not get your Derby CH or the next AFC, I am betting you got a sound dog.


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## younggun86 (May 2, 2013)

Does anyone kno if trav is still running or what's up ?


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## Rocketcityretrievers (Apr 10, 2014)

I'm training one at this time. He's a little hard headed but has figured it out. But overall a good pup.


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## nick_wilburn (Jun 30, 2012)

Hey Thanks for all the posts. The feed back on the original post is exactly what i needed to finish my Thesis in sociology. Thanks again everyone.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

.44 magnum said:


> One thing you all should think about is he seems to throw good or excellent hips and normal elbows... nothing worse then a Sire that does not pass on soundness.
> 
> http://offa.org/display.html?appnum=1210814#animal
> 
> ...


As a owner of a Grady pup that ended up with bad hips, I'd disagree.

And yes I realize that it takes two to produce a puppy, however my Grady puppy is not the only Grady pup I know of first hand with structural issues (elbows and hips).


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

_"Hey! Thanks for all the posts. The feed back on the original post is exactly what I needed to finish my Thesis in sociology."_

Sociology is the scientific study of human social behavior. I just went back and read your other 47 posts. This gave me all the information I needed to form an opinion about the author of your Thesis.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Meanwhile, has damage been done to a wonderful dog's reputation and that of his owner? I have a dog that I think the world of that has bad hip xrays, yet out of parents that are excellent and good. **** happens sometimes. To the op, shame on you and your disregard of others.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

> _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The OP is a Chessie person. So worried about the future of Labs. uh huh.


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

FOM said:


> As a owner of a Grady pup that ended up with bad hips, I'd disagree.
> 
> And yes I realize that it takes two to produce a puppy, however my Grady puppy is not the only Grady pup I know of first hand with structural issues (elbows and hips).


I think alot of this has to do with the number of puppy's on the ground

Sire # 1 has sired 10 litters= 80 puppys

Sire # 2 has sired 100 litters= 800 puppys

Sire # 2 is most likely going to have more success derby list , QAA MH ect. but he is also going to have more issues health wise as well with his offspring..


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

nick_wilburn said:


> Hey Thanks for all the posts. The feed back on the original post is exactly what i needed to finish my Thesis in sociology. Thanks again everyone.


What is the title of your "thesis"?


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

huntinman said:


> What is the title of your "thesis"?


 " How To Pot Stir On The Internet."


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

2tall said:


> Meanwhile, has damage been done to a wonderful dog's reputation and that of his owner? I have a dog that I think the world of that has bad hip xrays, yet out of parents that are excellent and good. **** happens sometimes. To the op, shame on you and your disregard of others.


Meanwhile I would suspect, to answer your first question, the answer would be NO. How could damage be done when everyone seems to think the world of their Grady pups? Did you read any false negative responses? I didn't think so.

Why should the OP feel shame for asking an honest question? 

It goes both ways, it can't always be rosey. Obviously reading this thread there are lots of people who would buy another Grady puppy in a heart beat. At the same time I hear people say they don't want to see another Grady litter. Who cares?


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Wade, you say it in your own sig line. It was horribly rude to single out one dog for this rant. New people come on this site every single day. What if this is their first introduction to this dog? I don't think there is anything "honest" about the OP's question. He started to cause trouble, and if we play his game, we get it. Personally, I have never bought a dog from the "top" sire. I look a little deeper. So no axe to grind. I just thought it was an awful thing to do. Sorry.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Todd Caswell said:


> I think alot of this has to do with the number of puppy's on the ground
> 
> Sire # 1 has sired 10 litters= 80 puppys
> 
> ...


Yes true, the odds are funny like that. But do we overlook that?

And if a person is gonna put their dog out as a stud, they should be prepared for some concerns to be aired, especially a popular sire.


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## Erin O'Brien (Mar 5, 2010)

Really? I counted the amount of dogs that have failed or had a blank hips, 93% had fair or better. I don't think that's a bad ratio when I didn't go back and look at the dams and their pedigrees. I know not all of them will be on there, but I'd say most that were done are because I counted the blanks (where they didn't list it), and most dogs get elbows done at the same time. He's a good sire, and discounting him because a few out of a ton, have bad hips when there's other factors, ie the dam and upbringing, is a travesty.


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

FOM said:


> Yes true, the odds are funny like that. But do we overlook that?
> 
> And if a person is gonna put their dog out as a stud, they should be prepared for some concerns to be aired, especially a popular sire.


100% in agreement!!!


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

FOM said:


> Yes true, the odds are funny like that. But do we overlook that?
> 
> And if a person is gonna put their dog out as a stud, they should be prepared for some concerns to be aired, especially a popular sire.


What concerns? Are you saying, Grady produces more bad hips/elbows, than the statistical norm?
What facts do you have to back up your "concerns"??
Other than gossip, hearsay and innuendo?


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## Erin O'Brien (Mar 5, 2010)

cakaiser said:


> What concerns? Are you saying, Grady produces more bad hips/elbows, than the statistical norm?
> What facts do you have to back up your "concerns"??
> Other than gossip, hearsay and innuendo?


According to OFA, his puppies have a lower incidence than all labs for hip dysplasia. The all time data says around 12% of labs tested by them have bad hips.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

cakaiser said:


> What concerns? Are you saying, Grady produces more bad hips/elbows, than the statistical norm?
> What facts do you have to back up your "concerns"??
> Other than gossip, hearsay and innuendo?


Whoa, my comment was in general for any stud owner...not specifically Grady. And any dog that is popular is going to produce concerns...in general everything good is credited to the bitch, while everything bad is associated with the sire...I don't know why that is, so stud owners have to take everything with a grain of salt. 

Don't read more into my posts than what is there.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Some good points have been made here. There are a lot of Grady-sired pups around. Grady was bred before he was NAFC and I don't believe he continued to bred only because of that "N". Yes, he's been a popular boy, and for good reason. Stud de jours come and go as time tells what their offspring do, FT people don't keep breeding to a dog that doesn't produce. Marketing sells pups for others, some place a huge emphasis on a Nat/Nat Am champ title, but overall, the real FT people look at consistency, production and what kind of dog they like to own, train and run. Grady has heart, talent, brains and a wonderful temperament. I've had four of his pups and see a bunch of others. I've seen nothing yet that proves Grady is throwing a higher than average incidence of OFA issues. I breed. I have to take into account what's going to hit me in the wallet down the road and have to make decisions based upon that, not just what I myself am going to end up with, but what I might have to replace in future litters. I have a Grady daughter and a Grady son. Both lovely dogs in temperament, easy to live with, other than the male will take your knee out with his happy tail. Smart, easy to train. Are they going to be FC AFC? Not likely, in my world. But, they are nice working dogs and easy for a handler like me, and give it their all, no crappy attitudes, no vocal issues, not breaking crazy-butt a-holes. I've had several of those from some of the "top sires", they might have had all the health clearances, but, I didn't keep them, I think THAT is the type of Labrador that does a breed the disservice. Grady isn't perfect, no dog is. But, I don't think he's ruining the breed. Which is a ridiculous premise by some pretty jealous sounding people. I remember when I first got into field Labs, how the gossip was about Lean Mac ruining the breed. Some still maintain that. I think time has kinda disproved that gossip. Don't have to like Maxx or Grady, but danged if you can't respect a dog's record. Worried about ruining the breed? I can think of a billion other things to lose sleep over.


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## DSemple (Feb 16, 2008)

nick_wilburn said:


> this thread has had some great feedback and the thread was started just to get a reaction out of everyone and to get the site going after the switch. thanks for all the comments and let let the good times roll





nick_wilburn said:


> i kind of thought i would get more opinions then just two.





nick_wilburn said:


> Hey Thanks for all the posts. The feed back on the original post is exactly what i needed to finish my Thesis in sociology. Thanks again everyone.



:twisted: :twisted:


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

FOM said:


> As a owner of a Grady pup that ended up with bad hips, I'd disagree.
> 
> And yes I realize that it takes two to produce a puppy, however my Grady puppy is not the only Grady pup I know of first hand with structural issues (elbows and hips).


When an individual like yourself has an issue it becomes a powerful indictment because it becomes public... The OFA web site is a useful tool for breeders to do their research in making breeding decisions... but like with many tools they can only be one of many.... as good breeders in the loop have mentors and friends that give them more info other then the OFA web site. While I was impressed by the OFA statistics, I am not a breeder in the loop... so there may or may not be a lot of Grady offspring with soundness issues... I had only one tool to make may statement. 

Hips and elbows have no genetic testing as of yet... as it is a complicated condition that may be genetic(structural), may be food related, or even exercise induced at an early age. Even some big jumps into a truck.. or off the truck... before growth is complete. I would make the conclusion based on the OFA and of so many breeders using Grady they like the "Get" for the most part. 

No dog is perfect, and when a mating takes place two sets of genetic information become the Blue Print for a dog as he develops. It can be one individual or the combination of the two that makes a great dog...or a poor one. 

In the book written about Secretariat (the Horse), as mentioned in one post here, he produced many great brood mares, but not much in the way of Stallions. The great ones sometimes never pass on their ability to the extent of their own success. Breeding is like that.


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## windwalkers swan song (Oct 25, 2008)

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY (Had litter of pups last winter out of my Grady X Mickey what a bunch of long legged thoroughbreds Look out Lean Mac and thanks Chad and Mike Lafond for the opportunity NEIL P.S. Still drooling over that new collar in the box CHRIS P.S. And thanks to Charlie and Mickey for their contribution


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## younggun86 (May 2, 2013)

It's called supply and demand, Grady was a top performer while he was running and was bred because of that, once he started throwing good pups n being a proven producer he got bred more n more. Lot of people go out looking for Grady litters and for myself he was the grand sire of my pup n that was the final selling point for me. Great animal, great producer for people who don't like him then don't buy a pup from him.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

windwalkers swan song said:


> HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY (Had litter of pups last winter out of my Grady X Mickey what a bunch of long legged thoroughbreds Look out Lean Mac and thanks Chad and Mike Lafond for the opportunity NEIL P.S. Still drooling over that new collar in the box CHRIS


Yes great breeding. Neil so HAPPY, HAPPY with my pup long legged Mickey.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

.44 magnum said:


> When an individual like yourself has an issue it becomes a powerful indictment because it becomes public... The OFA web site is a useful tool for breeders to do their research in making breeding decisions... but like with many tools they can only be one of many.... as good breeders in the loop have mentors and friends that give them more info other then the OFA web site. While I was impressed by the OFA statistics, I am not a breeder in the loop... so there may or may not be a lot of Grady offspring with soundness issues... I had only one tool to make may statement. .


While the OFA database is a useful tool, it can be misleading. In my experience, people are more likely to list positive reports with OFA than negative ones. If my experience is borne out in the general public, that would result in the database showing better genetic results from a particular sire or dam than were actually produced. So, information from people with bad results like Lainee are useful. I think that the term "indictment" is unnecessarily harsh. It is simply a statement of fact from one person's perspective. I was familiar with Lainee's puppy, so I understand her position. And if she was reluctant to get another Grady pup, I would understand why. I am also familiar with Robbie Bickley's puppy, Manny, now FC/AFC Hockley Creek's Big Hitter. And if he were eager to get another Grady pup, I would understand that also. I wouldn't make this a bigger deal than it is.


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## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

TIM DOANE said:


> Yes. I bred my untitled bitch to him to get a pup for myself. She was a cute little pup we called Stella. Now we call her GRHRCH "Stella" MNH QAA.


Love It!........


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

I saw where that Colorado trial the that AM placements 1 and 2 and RJ along with the Q placements 1 and 2 had the same sire. 
Total coincidence I'm sure since they came from 5 different bitches.


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

Chad Baker said:


> I saw where that Colorado trial the that AM placements 1 and 2 and RJ along with the Q placements 1 and 2 had the same sire.
> Total coincidence I'm sure since they came from 5 different bitches.


Chad Baker with a walk off home run.


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## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

NO offense or disrespect intended, Chad, but Grady's record speaks for itself(along with a whole lot of his sired offspring) if people would just do a little bit of research before opening mouth or engaging fingers.


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## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

RJW said:


> NO offense or disrespect intended, Chad, but Grady's record speaks for itself(along with a whole lot of his sired offspring) if people would just do a little bit of research before opening mouth or engaging fingers.


Funny post.....


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## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

freezeland said:


> Funny post.....


Indeed, I have been chuckling to myself and shaking my head through this entire thread.


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## ramblinmaxx (Nov 17, 2004)

RJW said:


> Indeed, I have been chuckling to myself and shaking my head through this entire thread.


Really have enjoyed the "PRO Grady" side of this thread, makes me feel good about the plans we had already made to breed to Grady in the near future.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

ramblinmaxx said:


> Really have enjoyed the "PRO Grady" side of this thread, makes me feel good about the plans we had already made to breed to Grady in the near future.


What makes me a fan is Chad Baker....never met the guy, only traded messages/emails with him but he is very approachable and I have never heard anything but great things about the guy...Hope to meet him in person real soon


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

Grady Smadie!!! Please send all your unwanted Grady progeny to central IL.... PM me for for shipping info....


Richard


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

Forgive them lord , for they have no clue what this game is about.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't think I'd be soo quick to twist biblical scripture there, Kippy.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> I don't think I'd be soo quick to twist biblical scripture there, Kippy.


 oh come on and lighten up. but there is some truth to what I said.


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## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

ramblinmaxx said:


> Really have enjoyed the "PRO Grady" side of this thread, makes me feel good about the plans we had already made to breed to Grady in the near future.



I have as well since I have a Grady sired pup. 

I also agree with what Bon said and have traded email with Chad as well which makes Grady that much more appealing, at least in my opinion.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

kip said:


> oh come on and lighten up. but there is some truth to what I said.


I know what you were trying to say, & I don't necessarily disagree to an extent about the what it takes part (Some dogs keep going & get a win where others that have far more talent, haven't done so.), I just said it as a "Friendly bit of advice" is all.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

With all due respect to everyone that reads this and participates on this forum to harm ment. No one has ever won the Kentucky derby on a mule. In the field trial world their are two groups, those who win and those who don't. Grady is bred because he is the best. We all won't and wish we had him or one like him. Chad never asked anyone to bred to him. We went calling. You take the good with the bad. You know that going in. Chad is a standup guy whos word is as good as gold in fort Knox. I have had numerous field champions and have bred a few of them. Taduh had at least one pup in every litter that had bad hips or bad something, but did that make her any less a great contributor to the gene pool ESP the chocolate dogs? I have said it and I stand by it, Grady will go down as one of the greatest sires in our game.


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## Jeff Brezee (Nov 21, 2012)

nick_wilburn said:


> While not trying to start and argument. Lets ask the questions what does everyone think of all the Grady pups. Are they what everyone thinks they are or is everyone breeding to him because it is the "Cool Stud" ? I have talked to some people that have had Grady pups and they say they are a pain to train hard headed and such. Are we doing the sport a favor by using him in almost every litter at this point. look at the pedigrees of today and you will see that 2 or 3 stud dogs tend to dominate all breeding and at some point in the last three generations. Are we setting ourselves up for failure?


How anyone could classify Grady as "flavor of the month" or the current "cool stud" is beyond me. My female Grady pup has been a complete joy to train. Incredible line manners, quick learner, high prey drive and was running to a 200 yard pile at 4 months. Sometimes I feel like she's on autopilot. If I were Chad and I was looking at those Colorado results, I would have pretty proud grin on my face.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Well said, Kip, well said. From someone with the voice of both experience and success. Including now a fluffy with a Derby win. ;-)


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

kip said:


> In the field trial world their are *two groups*, those who win and those who don't.


dang.......i was hoping there was a third group


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## Scott Krueger (Jan 25, 2008)

my pup is a grandaughter and would not hesitate to have another...her dad is a riot to watch run and if she turns out half as good as her dad i will be happy..


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## allydeer (May 11, 2008)

I hope the breeding between Tubbs sister to Grady takes this week and have a chance to watch these pups run .


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## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

allydeer said:


> I hope the breeding between Tubbs sister to Grady takes this week and have a chance to watch these pups run .


That sounds like it may have a whole lotta potential and fun to follow their progress. Good luck with the breeding.


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

I own a Grady female from a QAA bitch ......Littermate to BB male . A true thoroughbred .We all love watching her run . SMART . How smart ? Diversion bird on the return from the long gun at a club trial .As she moved to the diversion . I loudly said NO , leave it . She now steps/swims away from the diversion .Very high powered is putting it mildly .Is she perfect ?? NOPE . But you damn sure have something to work with .The rest is up to me


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

kip said:


> With all due respect to everyone that reads this and participates on this forum to harm ment. No one has ever won the Kentucky derby on a mule. In the field trial world their are two groups, those who win and those who don't. Grady is bred because he is the best. We all won't and wish we had him or one like him. Chad never asked anyone to bred to him. We went calling. You take the good with the bad. You know that going in. Chad is a standup guy whos word is as good as gold in fort Knox. I have had numerous field champions and have bred a few of them. Taduh had at least one pup in every litter that had bad hips or bad something, but did that make her any less a great contributor to the gene pool ESP the chocolate dogs? I have said it and I stand by it, Grady will go down as one of the greatest sires in our game.


.
What I wouldn't give to have a puppy from Taduh today. And on from Kennon's great girl never bred while were at it.
.
Grady is a great dog and Chad's a great owner. 
When my older beat up battle worn bitch finally won an Amateur to title, running on 3 1/2 legs and brain cancer, which was great in it self, I will remember the 4th series waiting in the holding blind as NFC Grady ran in front of us. I know I was thinking' **** how we gonna' win this freekin' trial. She hit the test good enough to win that Sunday and Grady's a great dog. If he's bred to a Keila bitch call me early.
Cheers


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

The Centennial Trial this past weekend had winners in the Open, Q, and Derby from different bitches!


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## Paul Brown (Sep 1, 2011)

Chad Baker said:


> The Centennial Trial this past weekend had winners in the Open, Q, and Derby from different bitches!


"Yes, but were they hard-headed?" he asked jokingly.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Chad Baker said:


> The Centennial Trial this past weekend had winners in the Open, Q, and Derby from different bitches!


And don't forget the double D/Q in MD... Jason Baker with Penn Cox's dog had a 1st and a 2nd in the 2 derbies...


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

My Grady pup just became QAA and is the 4th in the litter to be QAA out of the 5 that went to FT homes. This is from the first Grady X Lola breeding. Puppies from the second Grady x Lola breeding are 4 months old.


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## JKOttman (Feb 3, 2004)

Sabireley said:


> My Grady pup just became QAA and is the 4th in the litter to be QAA out of the 5 that went to FT homes. This is from the first Grady X Lola breeding. Puppies from the second Grady x Lola breeding are 4 months old.


and they're just 2 and half. Here a link to the Grady stud dog report: http://www.retrieverresults.com/doc/sire/Rpt_Stud_Grady.pdf


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## pauline_eisenman (Aug 11, 2014)

Great topic! I wish you can get tips and advice.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Sabireley said:


> My Grady pup just became QAA and is the 4th in the litter to be QAA out of the 5 that went to FT homes. This is from the first Grady X Lola breeding. Puppies from the second Grady x Lola breeding are 4 months old.


Congrats, Steve. I missed that or would have already done so. Harder to keep track with everyone scattered around during the summer.


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## ramblinmaxx (Nov 17, 2004)

pauline_eisenman said:


> Great topic! I wish you can get tips and advice.


It is a great topic ! Love hearing about all the accomplishments of Grady Pups. For Tips and advice you could probably search about any topic you had questions on here on the forum and if you didn't find the specific topic then just start a thread with your questions. When it comes to dog training there really isn't any dumb question.


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