# Winchester 1897 ?Help please!!!



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

I rescently was given a Winchester 1897 pump was told the year is 1915 but havent researched it yet it is in fairly rough condition. I am wanting to have it restored to fully working order. I did a BIG no no when I got it (without having it inspected by a gunsmith wich i would recomend to anyone wanting to shoot old guns ) although in rough condition it looked safe to shoot so I put shooting glasses and ear protection and loaded 2 2.75 inch Winchester cheap target loads. Fired first shell seemed fine so pumped it and it ejected the spent shell but did not load the shell out of the mag tube. So now i have a live zhell stuck in mag tube i have looked All over but cannot figured out how to get it out. A friend of mine said that you can only shoot paper shells in theese old guns I never have herd that but is that true if so can u still get paper shells if so where. Does any know how to get the live shell out of mag tube. Thanks


----------



## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Don't know anything about the gun, but Wikipedia says:

The gun could not be opened until a slight forward movement of the slide handle released the action slide lock. In firing, the recoil of the gun gave a slight forward motion to the slide handle and released the action slide lock which enabled immediate opening of the gun. In the absence of any recoil, the slide handle had to be pushed forward manually in order to release the action slide lock.[


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks bbnumber1 I'll check into that I apreciate your help


----------



## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

Can't help you get the shell out, but the Model 97 in the #1 shotgun used in cowboy action shooting, so once you have it checked out you should have no problem running a couple thousand rounds of factory light load ammo through it.


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

mngundog said:


> Can't help you get the shell out, but the Model 97 in the #1 shotgun used in cowboy action shooting, so once you have it checked out you should have no problem running a couple thousand rounds of factory light load ammo through it.


That's my plans exactly thanks for your help?


----------



## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

Youtube has a bunch of videos on breaking them down, looks pretty simple.
Heres a simple one, but there are many other more extensive ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrNFle6ICCI


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

mngundog said:


> Youtube has a bunch of videos on breaking them down, looks pretty simple.
> Heres a simple one, but there are many other more extensive ones.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrNFle6ICCI


Thanks for that video I watched it and others should help me alot can't wait till I get back home from work Friday and can take it apart


----------



## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Gun Digest has a volume on Shotguns, Assembly and Disassembly, and the '97 is included. I have used a '97 for years in Cowboys Action Shooting and have used modern day shotgun shells, light target loads.
There are gunsmiths who specialize in tuning up the '97.


----------



## minnducker (Jan 29, 2010)

You probably know all this stuff anyway. You said the gun was “rough” so maybe wouldn’t hurt to “restore” it. But if gun has any special features, (high grade wood, engraving, ribbed barrel, “pigeon” or “black diamond” grade), you wouldn’t want to refinish the wood or metal since that would reduce the value of the gun considerably. On the other hand, if it’s a “plain Jane” and really rough, and you want to keep it as a shooter, no harm done.
Also, you shouldn’t ever shoot steel, tungsten, Hevi-shot unless it has a pretty open choke, or it will damage the barrel and render it useless. There are some soft non-toxic alternatives for waterfowl hunting with older guns, Bismuth, Kent Tungsten-Matrix, ITX for reloaders etc. if any duck hunting is in the plan.


----------



## Don Thomsen (Mar 16, 2011)

this might help

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_breakdown_a_Winchester_model_1897


----------



## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

Don't believe the only paper shells, it's the dram you have have to look for.


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

minnducker said:


> You probably know all this stuff anyway. You said the gun was “rough” so maybe wouldn’t hurt to “restore” it. But if gun has any special features, (high grade wood, engraving, ribbed barrel, “pigeon” or “black diamond” grade), you wouldn’t want to refinish the wood or metal since that would reduce the value of the gun considerably. On the other hand, if it’s a “plain Jane” and really rough, and you want to keep it as a shooter, no harm done.
> Also, you shouldn’t ever shoot steel, tungsten, Hevi-shot unless it has a pretty open choke, or it will damage the barrel and render it useless. There are some soft non-toxic alternatives for waterfowl hunting with older guns, Bismuth, Kent Tungsten-Matrix, ITX for reloaders etc. if any duck hunting is in the plan.


Thanks for the help. No it isnt anything special as far as I know. It was passed down to me from my Wifes family my father inlaw has six girls and no sons he said as far as he's concerned I am his son. I have three brother inlaws thAt have been around alot longer than me so it made me feel really honored and special thAt he chose me to hand it Down to. So there is more sintamental value than cash value. I just want to clean it up have opporational if possible. I am wanting to start CASS just for fun. I'm not going to shorten the barell or anything fancy like the big time shooters do just have it tuned up a little to cycle faster. I'm kinda worried about a littel crack in the receiver that Somone sodered i dont know if that's a problem or not. It might just be a wAll hanger and if so that's fine. Thanks for all the replys they have been helpful


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I really cant see how a shell can be stuck in the magazine tube.

Is this ol 97 a "Take Down" model,, or is it the solid frame??

You can tell if its a Take Down by looking at the end of the fore arm. Does it have what looks to be a "pin" at the end of the Magazine tube?


Gooser


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Look Here!

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Model97down.html


Is the shell really stuck in the MAGAZINE tube,, or is is stuck underneath the carrier?

The Carrier is the "flipper" you see when you look at the bottom of the action.

You should be able to "Take Down" the barrel assembly that will include the mag tube. If the shell is "stuck" because of dirt and grime ect,, you should be able to taks some WD-40 and spry around the stuck shell base. Use a wooden dowel to push back and forth on the shell.

I dont believe there is anything in the tube itself MECHANICALLY that holds the shells in place.. They should just freely slide.

If the shell is stuck under the Carrier!!

That will involve more dis assembly in order to get the shell out.

In that case.. If you have never dis-assembled a 97,, I would take it to a gun shop (smith) and have them help you.

These are fine ol guns. They can have timming problems,, but can be fixed. When operating properly,, there is very little you are going to do to improve the working order of the action. They are glass smooth. hence the reason CASS love them.

Gooser


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

MooseGooser said:


> I really cant see how a shell can be stuck in the magazine tube.
> 
> Is this ol 97 a "Take Down" model,, or is it the solid frame??
> 
> ...


Solid frame I think I'm not at home I'm on the road for work ill b home Friday and take another look at it and try to take it apart. Thanks for all the help


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

As far as the shells.

Cheap Target loads do NOT have Brass base heads! They are steel that have brass plating. 

If Ya dont believe me place a magnet on yer shell and see for your self. Brass is NOT magnetic!!

What Can (and often does)happen with these older guns is the steel shell head expands MORE than what a brass case head does,, so SOMETIMES the steel case will "stick" in the chamber, making it nearly impossible to eject the shell. 

You will do yourself a favor, once you get the gun operating correctly, to only shoot QUALITY ammo in that gun. 
Only use Ammo with Brass base heads.
These include:
Winchester AA
Remington "premeier STS"

You DO NOT have to only shoot paper hulls!! Although THAT would be cool!

That gun will cycle QUALITY Plastic hulls also!!

Just letting you know of another log laying in the woods waiting for you to stumble over!

I am envious of the gun you have!!
Get her fixed and enjoy her!!
They were made when Guns was guns,, and girls were .....errr,,,, 
never mind I kint remeber now!!

Gooser


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks gooser for all your info and everyones help


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

My Dad's Uncle gave him one and it is now mine. It was the first gun I took hunting and I used it for years. I wish I could grab it right now but, i keep it in my brothers' gun safe as it is the only sentimentally valuable gun I own. They are sweet shooting guns. I used mine alot growing up. My dog is named for the ship my great uncle died on in WWII. My tribute to him for giving Dad the gun that started me hunting.


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

No problemo!

Once Ya get home,, and can look at the gun, Take notice of the end of the magazine tube near the end where the "Pin" is that you move to take the action down .

Yoy will see 3 small set screws there.
They hold the "cap" on the end of the tube.

You can remove these small screws. 
be carefull, the spring,, and maybe the 'Plug" (so the gun only hold three shells) is in there.

If you are going to CAS you prolly will want to remove that Plug anyways,, but once you get the magazine tube to this point,,, Its Just a tube,, You will be able to use a dowel to push the shell out of the tube.

You can then CLEAN the tube of gunk, rust,, or what ever with a bore brush wrapped in steel wool,, and chucked up in a cordless drill.
Use some sort of cleaning Solvent (Hoppes, Eds Red ect) to clean it with.

If its a solid frame model,, it may be a little different,, but ya get the idea!


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Sometimes those "Tubes" do get damaged!

Prolly from some careless Money Bird Pigeon shooter celebratin theys actually shot a bird er two!

maybe it just has a dent in it er somethin!!

Goosie!


----------



## David Carpenter (Jul 11, 2008)

Info: do I remember right? Been a lot of years since I used one...Does a 97 fire every time you pump a new round in-- if the trigger is held down? might be something for a new user to have in mind if so--


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

David Carpenter said:


> Info: do I remember right? Been a lot of years since I used one...Does a 97 fire every time you pump a new round in-- if the trigger is held down? might be something for a new user to have in mind if so--


I think the hammer would fall right along with the slide but, I can't remember for certain. I haven't even seen mine in about 4 years. Probably haven't shot it in 15.


----------



## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Sometimes they will slam fire. So be careful. This happened to me once when I picked up the wrong '97. By slam fire I mean when you eject the fired round and pump a new one into the chamber, it goes off without pulling the trigger. 

This happened only once out of probably 500 rds and it was someone elses shotgun. But it is a known safety issue. So when you pump a new round in be sure it is pointed in a safe direction.


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

If you closed the slide,but didn't depress the trigger as you closed the slide, and the gun fired, the gun is faulty.

If you pull the trigger and hold it down, and work the slide,a 97'and a M 12 will both slam fire
Newer M 12s will not


----------



## Victoria Jones (May 29, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your problem. The 1897 is a great gun. That is inaccurate information regarding only shooting paper loads. I have an 1897 that I shoot Federal 1 ounce slugs through every year to take deer with. If it were mine, I would take it to a certified gunsmith.


----------



## DDRUGG (Dec 1, 2010)

Here are some links.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897

marauder.homestead.com/shotgun.html

marauder.homestead.com/Model97sn.html

marauder.homestead.com/97info.html

marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm

Take good care of her, she's a piece of history!
It won't let me post them as actual links.
Dan


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

So,,,, Ducknuts,, are Ya home yet???:razz:


Where the heck are Ya,,,, BEIGE-- ING???

Gooser


----------



## Mike Boufford (Sep 28, 2004)

MooseGooser said:


> No problemo!
> 
> Once Ya get home,, and can look at the gun, Take notice of the end of the magazine tube near the end where the "Pin" is that you move to take the action down .
> 
> ...


Where is that applauding smiley face when you need it? Great post Moose Gooser. 

Disassembly of the mag tube is probably the easiest method of getting the shell out if the shell stops are frozen in place. See parts 26 and 27 of the attached exploded view for an idea where these parts are inside the receiver. They should be just behind the magazine tube. Push the carrier up and out of the way, and see if you can push the shell stops outward releasing the shell. If this doesn't work then disassemble the mag tube. FYI, the screws mentioned are also in the diagram. 

I love some of these old guns. Just be careful working on them and for crying out loud, get a good set of smith screwdrivers. If I had a nickel for every bunged up gun screw I have ever seen... and I'm not even a smith! 

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Mike

I am glad you posted.

I do not have a 97,, but I did in the past. A LONG LONG time ago!!
I have always wanted to replace that fine old gun someday.

I have been posting from memory,, and from how my M12 is made.
I know they are similar.

My question to you kind sir:

Those shell stops on a 97. Do they work like the shell stop does on a M12?
So Many people think their M12 has a problem with their shell stops, cause the "stop" doesnt hold a shell in the Mag tube as the shell is loaded.The shell slips back underneath the carrier. They see the stop,, and the shell slid past it, decide its defective.

The shell is supposed to slip back underneath the carrier, and then when the slide is moved rearwrd, to chamber the next round,, the Shell stop,, THEN holds the following shell in the mag tube, untill the bolt is closed.,, then that following round slips underneath the carrier....Thats the way they are designed!!

They dont operate like your typical 870. Its one of the nice functions of a M12. 
To unload the M12,, you just push down on the carrier from underneath,, and the shells will spill out of the mag tube.

You can do this on a 870,, but you have to push each shell restrain bar out of the way. I have to use 2 hands to do this, so I end up working the action to unload the things (870's)

Gooser


----------



## Mike Boufford (Sep 28, 2004)

MooseGooser said:


> Mike
> 
> I am glad you posted.
> 
> ...


First, I apologize if my post made it appear as if I was being disrespectful as that wasn't the intention. Perhaps a little too much work while on "vacation" hampered my writing skills. Your post was the first in this whole thread which identified proper function and fix with the shell stuck in the magazine as the sole issue which is why I wanted the applauding smiley. 

If this was a Model 12, you would be spot on but based on schematics, they appear to be two totally different actions. The Model 12 uses a cartridge cutoff similarly to the way that an auto (see Browning Gold bolt assembly) as the cartridge stop while in battery. The timing of the action will then maintain subsequent shells in the magazine. To be bluntly honest, I don't see an actual cartridge stop on the 12. Everything is accomplished with the cutoff and carrier. The 1897 uses shell stops similar to what the 870 uses. 

Hopefully, my Dad has his old Model 12 16 gauge sitting around the house still and hasn't sold it. This weekend will give me an opportunity to tinker with a very nice shotgun. The only thing he did wrong was put a pickle on the end of it. I just don't like those Poly Chokes or even worse Cutts Compensators. My Sweet 16 is one of the nicest shooting shotguns I've ever had the pleasure of shooting and I have actually hit 75% with it shooting sporting clays, and it has a modified choke.

And thanks for talking guns with me. I don't get enough of that, and those weapons specific forums I do subscribe to are full of gun snobs who make it impossible to have a good discussion about fine weapons.


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Mike

I didnt take anything you wrote as disrespectfull.... quite the opposite actually.

I was trying to help ducknuts (he still must notbe home!) with his question,, and I was a bit concerned cause I was going off my memory,, and looking at my M12 assuming it was similar.

I am glad you answered the question of the shell stops.It gives the OP something else to look into.

My Model 12 has the dreaded Clutts Compensator on the end of the barrel!!
I wouldnt trade it for the world!! it is a 20 guage skeet!

A very Fine system if you ask me.... they just look a little wierd!!!

Gooser


----------



## Mike Boufford (Sep 28, 2004)

Just wanted to make sure. 

My Dad's is a very slender design Poly, but I am one of those traditionalist types, and want to see the shotgun the way it was originally built. I turned down an otherwise very nice Belgian Browning because it had a Cutts on it. The shotgun was 98% right up to the end of the barrel. Good thing I waited because I got my hands on an even better Belgian that had exactly two boxes of shells shot out of it in the time the original owner had it. It's in my Dad's safe right now, but he gets to use all of my shotguns anyway so I know the master is taking care of my toys. 80 years old and he can still outshoot all of my hunting buddies.


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I brought this thread back up to the top,, cause I saw nutducks was back on the board.

So,, WHAT happened?

Did Ya get the shell out??

Gooser


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

No never took it apart yet dI will take pics of it but can't figure out how to post from my iPhone so if I email them to you gooser can you post them please


----------



## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

if gooser is off line, I Ken post them for you.

[email protected] 


.


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Ok looks like I missed some posts I'll read them. I took pics so if gooser or any one else wants to post them for me post or pm your email and Ill email them to you thanks


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Oops hit post to many times sorry


----------



## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

nuts4ducksjw said:


> ...any one else wants to post them for me post or pm your email and Ill email them to you thanks


 
rtf is just like duck hunting nuts, ya gotta look up now and then;-)



.


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Kenbora email sent


----------



## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

here ya go POOF! -
































.


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Thank Ken sorry I still can't figure out how to post pics from iPhone and computer is down at the moment Thanks


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Nice pics Ken. Mine is different from that. Where this one has screws, mine has a push through "pin"? that stops and you twist it. Then it will come apart. Wish it was here I'd take some pics. 

If I recall the last patent dates on mine are 1912? Been a while, not positive on that..


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Ok got shell out It was the shell stop (i think ) I had to close the action a little just enough to compress the shell stop then took a screw driver and pryed the shell out don't know why I didn't think to that in the first place oh well. I think it needs complete disasembled and deep cleaned. The main thing I'm worried about is the crack in the receiver that has been sodered. Will that keep it from being able to b restored to working condition or should it just b a wall hanger thanks for all the help


----------



## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

That's not solder half way up the barrel, right below the magazine band is it?


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

mngundog said:


> That's not solder half way up the barrel, right below the magazine band is it?


No it isn't I think it is glue or something but it does have soder on the reciever I'm kinda worried about that


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

If the shell was actually stuck in the receiver it probably just needs to be polished. My 870 gets shot a few thousand times a year and I get brass build up and it gets sticky. I've replaced two firing pins and extractor springs a few times. I've found that using a brush on a drill motor works well to knock the build up out of the chamber. 

Then again, I only clean my gun once every couple months or when it starts getting sticky???


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

This gun has been threw the ringer it's Purty rough but hopefully I can get it Going again thanks for all the help


----------



## Mike Boufford (Sep 28, 2004)

You have what appears to be the fixed receiver version (non-take down) of the 1897. I believe that the receiver screw on the right side of the receiver should allow you to remove the magazine though. If you cannot depress the cartridge stops with the receiver in the closed position, then take the end cap off as suggested by Gooser. If all else fails, then take this to a competent gunsmith and let him do the removal. 

If you really want this shotgun cleaned up and restored, find someone of quality to do it, and then have it proofed. A good restoration smith will tell you if it's worth salvaging. If it gets restored, don't shoot heavy loads through it, and don't shoot steel.



Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Nice pics Ken. Mine is different from that. Where this one has screws, mine has a push through "pin"? that stops and you twist it. Then it will come apart. Wish it was here I'd take some pics.
> 
> If I recall the last patent dates on mine are 1912? Been a while, not positive on that..


You have the take down version. The 1897 was made from 1897 through 1957 according to Larry Potterfield's little video. I wasn't aware that the riot version was capable of slam fire. Interesting.

Here is a nice video on disassembly of the 1897 takedown model:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k4es3COdoc&feature=related


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Go back to post # 14 By Me,,, Its mine!

The link I provided instructs how to dis assemble both the take down AND the solid frame.

There are pictures.

This is the amount a regular stiff should dis assemble to do a general cleaning.

Agin.... post #14

Gooser


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks gooser


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

The reciever is cracked,, and has been BRAZED. Its NOT solder.

BaZing is stronger than solder.

Brazing is done at temps higher than 840 degrees,, and uses a filler material of bronze or brass. (hence the color you see)
Silver solder uses typically less heat,, and uses a filler of a certain percentage of silver.

My opinion?? Gun is not worth the effort of a restoration


currently,,There is what looks to be an original 97 solid frame on Gun Broker right now,, and has a asking price of 899.00 .... No Bids.

If it were me,, I would take it to a smith,, and ask him if its safe to shoot.

If so,, shoot and enjoy.

The Braze could quite possibly be fine, but if you look close, you can see the crack that goes into the extractor slot. Brazing CAN be blued.


----------



## Mike Boufford (Sep 28, 2004)

MooseGooser said:


> The reciever is cracked,, and has been BRAZED. Its NOT solder.
> 
> BaZing is stronger than solder.
> 
> ...


Dang Gooser, I missed the braze. I agree, not worth the price of restoration with that. I also noticed the fore end crack near the front when looking at the pictures a second time.


----------



## nuts4ducksjw (Mar 15, 2010)

Yes pretty rough but oh well it was free I just hope I Can shoot it some. I have researched this gun alot and they were great guns in there day and still are. Pretty cool to have some thing almost 100years old that still works ( for the most part) thanks for all the help y'all


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I have winchester model 1890 .22 pump with the cresent stock,, and Octagon barrel.

It has seen use,, and comes from the farm my Dad was raised on in S.E Kansas just outside of Cherryvale,
It was a tool during the depression. They did not have money to shoot expensive shotguns,, and "bartered for .22 ammo.

I also have a "Y" branch of Oak, that my Dad cut from a tree on the farm. It became his slingshot, that he carried with him everywhere. It went overseas with him during WW11. I estimate its manufacture date at about 1931

They lived on Rabbits and squirrels,, and Quail.
Raised chickens.... 13 kids!!!!!!


The gun is not in the best of shape, but I really try every January to go plink a couple of squirrels.
I enjoy that Old thing immensly. The Slingshot hangs in my gun cabinet!!

Gooser


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

MooseGooser said:


> The reciever is cracked,, and has been BRAZED. Its NOT solder.
> 
> BaZing is stronger than solder.
> 
> ...


$899!?!?!! I see them in pawn shops all around here for less than $200!!?!?! gonna start loading up on these bad boys....I think the little crappy gun shop in my town has one for less than $250...in good shape..


----------



## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> $899!?!?!! I see them in pawn shops all around here for less than $200!!?!?! gonna start loading up on these bad boys....I think the little crappy gun shop in my town has one for less than $250...in good shape..


Time to load up on them, the cowboy action shooters are driving the prices up, however I think you can still find decent ones around me in the $400 range.


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Gun is a pre 1899 Factory lettered gun...... suposedly..
It is a solid frame gun
They didnt offer a takedown till late 98

I believe they made the 97 till the Mid 1950's

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=267102018

Ducknutts gun is a very early model.I gave the example of what an original EARLY date 97 MAY be worth, so he could see that very much work done to HIS gun, would supply him with many Bills for services rendered.
He would then own a "Shooter" gun, that would NOT letter,,and prolly be one a those you see in Pawn shops fer 300.00.

There are also Riot models listed on Gun Broker for well over a couple a grand.

Beauty and worth are in the eye of the beholder.

The Slingshot I have is Priceless. It is in Original condition ,,,with oil from the hands of my Dad,, rubbed in as a finish

All depends on condition,, (unmolested) age,,, and historical value.


Gooser


----------



## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

Gooser, is there a way to search on "auction arms" to see completed auctions?


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Only if you are a registered member.


----------



## charly_t (Feb 11, 2009)

MooseGooser said:


> I have winchester model 1890 .22 pump with the cresent stock,, and Octagon barrel.
> 
> It has seen use,, and comes from the farm my Dad was raised on in S.E Kansas just outside of Cherryvale,
> It was a tool during the depression. They did not have money to shoot expensive shotguns,, and "bartered for .22 ammo.
> ...



Liked your story. My old single shot 410 has been around a long time ( I can't read much on it .....Iver maybe ). Youngest son wants to work on it but even though he bought a new 410 for me I just can't do without the old one for long enough for him to clean and blue the old one. Dad's guns were stolen back in 1987 ( I believe it was ). Anyway the old 410 was at my house and he told me how glad he was that I had it borrowed. He said just keep it at your house. One of the guns they stole from dad was a 20 guage with a hand carved ( by him ) stock that was a thing of beauty. Dad always said he wished he could have been behind the bedroom door when they reached up on the gun rack to lift it down. Dad had his name under the pad on the stock but it was never found ( of course ). I have managed to break two firing pins in the old 410. I have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks to all of you who posted info.


----------

