# Has anybody checked into the Freddy King website yet?



## rjrogers

Just looking to see if anybody has bought the membership to Freddy Kings website for the retriever trainer? Its 60 a yr for membership and supposed to be a library of videos that is going to be constantly updated. Im thinking about it but just not sure yet.


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## Kajun Kamakazi

Who's Freddy King?


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## Maddog10

Been considering it myself. If it includes as much material as he proposes, I think it would be well worth $5/month.


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## Rick Hall

Kajun Kamakazi said:


> Who's Freddy King?


Hot damn! An excuse to post my all time favorite dog tribute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBPr1y0JP08


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## Twin Willows Labs

Rick Hall said:


> Hot damn! An excuse to post my all time favorite dog tribute:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBPr1y0JP08


You had to go and do it, didn't you. Great, now my screen is all blurry again.


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## mikehmike

that video must cause peoples screen to blur, mine did it to. What is his website?


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## Barry Ireland

I did join for $60. Not hard to throw away that so figured I would take a look. Some info that is good but it has got a ways to go. No Trial stuff yet.


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## Wayne Nutt

Most accomplished trainers I know advise to stay clear of his videos. Spend your money on one of the more recognized programs (Lardy, Graham, Voigt, etc).


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## Maddog10

Wayne Nutt said:


> Most accomplished trainers I know advise to stay clear of his videos. Spend your money on one of the more recognized programs (Lardy, Graham, Voigt, etc).


I always hear this, especially on this site, and I don't understand why that is exactly. Freddy is not a traditional white coat guy and I think that turns some people off, but a part of me has to wonder if the other popular trainers that you named feel that Freddy devalues their products due to the fact that he posts training videos on almost a daily basis FOR FREE. 

Let me be clear. I don't adopt all of Freddy's methods because sometimes I am more comfortable using the methods presented by other pro trainers. Take FF for example. I elect to use a different FF method, but if you watch his videos it's clear that he has success with his methods because nearly all of his dogs have great mouth habits. I also like the fact that he posts live video. There is no editing, no filters, just plain raw footage that shows the good, the bad, and the ugly. Again, all of this has been provided FOR FREE, but yet it seems the majority of people in the training world look down their nose at him. Meanwhile, some act like if you aren't forking out the $500+ to buy Hillman's DVD's that you have no chance of training a respectable dog. I say that with great respect for Hillman. I love his work and use some of his methods daily, but I think there are also other ways to have success and I'm not going to look down on anyone who wants to take a cheaper route.

I don't know why it bothers me, but it just gets under my skin when people say "Oh don't listen to him because the other trainers say so." Of course they say so. They sell training programs while he has been handing his program out for free. From a trainer perspective it's understandable that they don't endorse him because he's costing them money. From a consumer perspective, what is to dislike about an established trainer sharing his methods for free, as well as showing live video of how he deals with common issues? Take it if it suits you, leave it if it doesn't. Either way it didn't cost you anything. I watch a lot of his stuff, and particularly take interest in his setups and what aspects of the dog's training that he is wanting to challenge with each setup.

Now it seems like he is finally looking to monetize on a bit of his work, and I don't blame him. $60 for a yearly subscription is still less than the cost of a single Hillman DVD, and if Freddy sticks to his claims it will involve roughly 10-15 videos per week of searchable content to find videos that relate to the area of training you are interested in, as well as uploading videos of your own dog asking for advice, etc. He claims that multiple pros will be involved, one of which I'm sure is likely to be Chris Akin since they seem to have a close relationship... I understand that I'm not likely to change anyone's opinion and I don't know Freddy from Adam. I'm just of the belief that competition in a marketplace is good for the consumer, and I am a consumer. If he sticks to his claims, does what he says he's going to do, provides the content that he claims he will provide, it's hard to see it not being worth $5/month for an avid dog trainer.


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## fireman85

Freddy's videos are very good. For the price its a good tool to add to your box thats gonna be a lot of videos and knowledge for a fraction of what other pros charge for 1 dvd. While he might not be legend of the game like hillman or lardy he makes a living training dogs. With that said i think Chris Akin will have a lot to do with this project also. Freddy sends his personal dogs to Akin to train and run at the grand and master nationals so even if hes not the best trainer in the world he makes great videos, trains dogs daily, and rubs elbows with some of the best in the business.


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## fireman85

Maddog10 very well stated!


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## smok'in gun

Maddog got mad and the fireman fanned the flames but I think I dowsed them after watching the video Rick posted.

Jeff Warren


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## 1tulip

I can't judge which person has better methods or results or whatever. But Mr. King can be poignant and funny and easy to listen to and understand. He's a very good communicator.


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## Bridget Bodine

let me get this right . Freddy sends his dogs to a pro, but wants to sell YOU training video membership? He has 17 entries on Entry Express, none were handled by him. I am sorry I think people should take advice from someone who has BEEN THERE < DONE THAT and can show me a successful record.


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## BonMallari

Bridget Bodine said:


> let me get this right . Freddy sends his dogs to a pro, but wants to sell YOU training video membership? He has 17 entries on Entry Express, none were handled by him. I am sorry I think people should take advice from someone who has BEEN THERE < DONE THAT and can show me a successful record.


Rex Carr never ran a FT and a lot of well known people took training advice from him.....a few of them even won a couple of National(s)


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## thetrigger

Seems like the logical person would just go youtube a few of his videos and make their own assumptions of his previously made videos (which are tailored to the vast majority of the dog training world (one-guy, one-dog) and are entertaining/useful) instead of making assumptions. As the saying goes, assuming only makes an ass(of)u&me.


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## Barry Ireland

BonMallari said:


> Rex Carr never ran a FT and a lot of well known people took training advice from him.....a few of them even won a couple of National(s)


I would guess there are a large number of very talented trainers out there whose name will never reach Entry Express. Some of the reasons being what we saw with a earlier post. They may not give a crap about the titles and rubbing shoulders in the limelight of others. I greatly respect these type of people. You cant even go out for dinner for $60 so its not worth getting your britches in a uproar over. IMO


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## hawgsalot

fireman85 said:


> Freddy's videos are very good. For the price its a good tool to add to your box thats gonna be a lot of videos and knowledge for a fraction of what other pros charge for 1 dvd. While he might not be legend of the game like hillman or lardy he makes a living training dogs. With that said i think Chris Akin will have a lot to do with this project also. Freddy sends his personal dogs to Akin to train and run at the grand and master nationals so even if hes not the best trainer in the world he makes great videos, trains dogs daily, and rubs elbows with some of the best in the business.


Well I wasn't going to let this out but you are 100% correct and Freddy has some nice dogs and Chris gets them to the next level. Freddie is well known around here for duck hunting videos and it's not all positive but he is doing pretty well training HRC level dogs.


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## gdgnyc

Rick Hall

Thank you for the link.


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## Bridget Bodine

You have valid points , I hope those that use him have great success


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## jd6400

BonMallari said:


> Rex Carr never ran a FT and a lot of well known people took training advice from him.....a few of them even won a couple of National(s)


I was sitting back waiting on that......Jim


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## fireman85

Bridget Bodine said:


> let me get this right . Freddy sends his dogs to a pro, but wants to sell YOU training video membership? He has 17 entries on Entry Express, none were handled by him. I am sorry I think people should take advice from someone who has BEEN THERE < DONE THAT and can show me a successful record.



I can easily respect a man who sends his 2 personal dogs to a grand or master national on someone elses trailer so he can stay home and do what hes getting paid for. If i were to pay money for my dog to be trained i would be mad as hell if i found out they were gone on a 5 or 10 day trip to test their own dogs while mine is setting in the kennel getting nothing for my money.


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## Breck

Does he have something new to offer the retriever community or are his videos just something to watch while wasting time on YouTube?


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## BCRETRIEVERS

Funny thing is Bridget, I don't recall ANY professional trainers offering raw video of training dogs for $5/month. In fact, I dont know of anyone who has put out free video footage of live training in the last couple of months. I know several hold occasional training seminars over usually a weekend for the same fee Freddy plans to charge for 4 YEARS of video training footage. I signed up knowing Freddy is an overachiever, and have little doubt his effort is well worth my $60. If any other pro's want to offer online training advice on a daily basis, I would be glad to review the material and decide for myself if it was worth my money. If you know of ANY pro's offering up daily live training feed, I'm all ears.


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## Southern_tied

I was hoping you could pay $5 monthly instead of the $60 year but I am going to check it out. Thats not a huge loss and from his other videos he does pretty well explaining everything.


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## Bridget Bodine

Alright you all can quit beating me know, I am sorry for the knock....


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## Thomas D

I haven't heard of him either. What are his accomplishments.


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## Maddog10

Bridget Bodine said:


> Alright you all can quit beating me know, I am sorry for the knock....


Since I kind of feel like I started this whole thing, I want to say that for what it's worth I don't fully disagree with your original post Bridget. I think that a trainer's resume is an important piece to a bigger puzzle and that a proven track record shows that you are capable of success. That said, it's not the entire puzzle and there are some professionals that have had success in which I would never send one of my dogs to because I don't respect them or like the way they treat their dogs. 

I think Freddy's site is a matter of investment vs expectation. If someone is looking to train their dog to a FC/AFC level, they aren't likely to do it from a $60 facebook group. For those people, price is secondary to professionalism and they would be better off to seek out the best available trainer and spend $700+ per month for that pro to train their dog. With that said, I don't really feel that Freddy marketed his site to those people, or they weren't his core audience. In my mind, this site is more for people that on the low end want a really nice meat dog and on the high end want a MH level dog, with maybe the potential to test the FT waters. That's the audience he is seeking IMO, along with perhaps getting a few people that follow a dedicated program but would like to supplement that program with his advice as well. At the end of the day, I think he did a nice job pricing the product in order to gain interest. People will feel like they got a great deal if the material is good, and many are willing to risk $60 a year to find out. Now it's up to Freddy to provide the content he promises in order to retain those customers, and only time will tell when it comes to that.


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## Tobias

I like Freddy's enthusiasm... He has that going for him... it is obvious he loves what he is doing. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a good trainer... but at least he appears to be having fun. 

I dislike his continuous talking to the dog ... especially repeated commands.... sit sit sit... etc etc.... It would be nice to see if he could go through a 5 minute clip without repeating basic obedience commands a bajillion times.... (ok, not a bajillion... but a lot).


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## cmccallum

Also something to keep in mind here, he pitched it with the idea of involving different pros in areas (I'm assuming) that he does not have a good deal of experience in. 
From a risk/reward perspective, let's think about it. He is charging $60 a year for basically a continuously daily updated database of videos with different categories of training. If you go to a well known pro and they charge you a session, it will cost you $50-$100 per session (for an hour). If you happen to pick up 3-5 tips or see a couple of setups that give you a good idea that you have never thought of, the $60 membership just paid for itself. Very little risk involved for the amount of money one would spend at a gas station in a month buying drinks and snacks. 

Now, with that said... Freddy is not the first to do this as far as putting a program online. A great program called Cornerstone Gundog Academy launched in April that is geared towards people who want to train their own dogs to hunt waterfowl and upland game. It's very well thought out and it too is continuously updated on a almost weekly basis. 

Also, Bill Hillmann launched his advanced stuff online this week too.


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## Justin Allen

There are none to list. 



Thomas D said:


> I haven't heard of him either. What are his accomplishments.


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## Justin Allen

I've watched one of his videos. Never again, it was like he was making a list of everything to do wrong when training a dog. Total joke in my opinion. He seems like a good guy but he's not a dog trainer at all. 



Tobias said:


> I like Freddy's enthusiasm... He has that going for him... it is obvious he loves what he is doing. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a good trainer... but at least he appears to be having fun.
> 
> I dislike his continuous talking to the dog ... especially repeated commands.... sit sit sit... etc etc.... It would be nice to see if he could go through a 5 minute clip without repeating basic obedience commands a bajillion times.... (ok, not a bajillion... but a lot).


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## Keith Draper

Waterdog TV did the same concept a few years back. Seemed like a good plan but never really caught on.


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## Paul Frey

I like that one too.


Rick Hall said:


> Hot damn! An excuse to post my all time favorite dog tribute:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBPr1y0JP08


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## KLopez24

Has anyone signed up for Cornerstone? I almost did the Founders, but wasn't ready to fork out the $300 but now wish I did. 

I've been real tempted to sign up for Freddy's as well. 

Training by myself a lot, so anything is helpful for me really.




cmccallum said:


> Now, with that said... Freddy is not the first to do this as far as putting a program online. A great program called Cornerstone Gundog Academy launched in April that is geared towards people who want to train their own dogs to hunt waterfowl and upland game. It's very well thought out and it too is continuously updated on a almost weekly basis.


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## cmccallum

I have it. I like it. I support it. You just need to realize that its not a traditional force program before you sign up for it. It also covers a lot of information for hunters that they won't see other places like intro to decoys, blinds, dog blinds, boats, etc. 



KLopez24 said:


> Has anyone signed up for Cornerstone? I almost did the Founders, but wasn't ready to fork out the $300 but now wish I did.
> 
> I've been real tempted to sign up for Freddy's as well.
> 
> Training by myself a lot, so anything is helpful for me really.


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## MIDTNGRNHEAD

I had a shooting coach at the OTC back in the '80's that told us to listen to everything anybody had to say. Keep what is useful and improves your game, discard the rest. If you know what they know and what you know, you probably have a competitive advantage.

That being said, being in the middle of collar conditioning with a young dog, I went back and watched the Lardy e-collar training video last night for the ??? time and I always notice something new or remember something when I re-watch one of these videos.


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## DarrinGreene

Based on his view count I'd guess he's helped more people free than Lardy has ever sold. It's the 2017 economy talking. Read Gary Vaynerchuk's "Jab Jab Right Hook" or "Thank You Economy" sometimes if you're in the business of selling internet based materials. 

I'm not commenting on the quality of his work from a training point of view, just what he does from a marketing standpoint. He owns a video production company and would probably produce a video on snake charming if he thought he could make money. That's what he does. No reason to get down on him for making a living.

No doubt someone who still uses the traditional "Nothing in Life Is Free" method would say he sucks as a trainer to try and keep people away from him.


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## kycgb23

I am by no means an expert but I am someone who loves retriever training and running dogs everyday. I enjoy reading this forum and asking others for advice when I need help. Considering the fact that I am still learning and trying to pick up on as much information as I can, I really enjoy all of Freddy's videos. I subscribed to his website and from the few videos I've seen, I believe it is worth $60 a year. With that being said, just because its worth it to me, dosent mean that it is for everyone. I appreciate the fact that he has priced it reasonably and like others have said, if he does what he has promised, I will continue to pay for it for a long time. To me, its just another resource I can use to help me whenever I hit a rough spot going down the road. 

From a professionals point of view, I can see where it would be frustrating to see him posting all of his previous videos for free and starting this website for a lot cheaper than sending a dog to another professional. At the end of the day, this business is still a competition for customers. In my opinion, you can't blame him for trying to improve his business.


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## Thomas D

MIDTNGRNHEAD said:


> I had a shooting coach at the OTC back in the '80's that told us to listen to everything anybody had to say. Keep what is useful and improves your game, discard the rest. If you know what they know and what you know, you probably have a competitive advantage.
> 
> That being said, being in the middle of collar conditioning with a young dog, I went back and watched the Lardy e-collar training video last night for the ??? time and I always notice something new or remember something when I re-watch one of these videos.


But some people new to dog training don't know what is useful and will improve their dog.


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## mikehmike

Thomas D said:


> But some people new to dog training don't know what is useful and will improve their dog.


Those people (I am one) need to recognize that, accept that and use a professional trainer like I did. If they don't...that's on them when they don't have the dog they want.


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## Thomas D

mikehmike said:


> Those people (I am one) need to recognize that, accept that and use a professional trainer like I did. If they don't...that's on them when they don't have the dog they want.



Agree.....


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## Happy Gilmore

Wayne Nutt said:


> Most accomplished trainers I know advise to stay clear of his videos. Spend your money on one of the more recognized programs (Lardy, Graham, Voigt, etc).


In all fairness, based on a previous comment about deleting threads wouldn't this comment fall under your prior suggestion to delete threads which talked poorly about a trainer?


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## Kyle Bertram

I started watching, two minutes in, I couldn't take anymore. I'll stick with Lardy, Graham, Carr, Hillman and Stawski, to gain ideas and selectively pick the methods I want to use. I don't think Freddy has a "Method" I respect all 5 of these guys and choose to learn from them.


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## jd6400

From William Glasser,
We learn 10% of what we read
20% of what we hear
30% of what we see
80% of what we experience.
Jim


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## Tobias

jd6400 said:


> From William Glasser,
> We learn 10% of what we read
> 20% of what we hear
> 30% of what we see
> 80% of what we experience.
> Jim


add that all up, and damn, I ought to be at least on the same playing field of some of the more well known trainers!!!   (wish it were so. LOL)


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## RedHeadedHurricane

Hmmmm,

It seems that about every 2 or 3 years I come back to RTF and find the same ol' song and dance that turns most folks off. Way too people on this site consider or think themselves to be the upper end circles of the retriever world. Tons of negativity and a lot of just plain non-sense. Again, I find myself somewhat feeling as if I need to defend myself but in reality, there's no need. It's the same circle as always and the same words as always... But, still I will play the game that the more liberal leftists of this page like to play as I can't be demoralized into their way of thinking. 

First of all it's retriever training. It's not brain science and anyone can do it with just a little know how. Several people of this site think a few videos on youtube depict the general consensus of the training I might personally use for clients... NOPE, it's only a quick, efficient way for folks with little time and little space that train alone to end up with a nice solid meat dog for the upcoming duck season. However, the tools for progression into possibly a stronger retriever are there. Simplification at its finest. Free for everyone. 

As for the questioning or remarks about Thief and why Chris Akin is running him... I will NOT run my own dog or one or two clients dogs on a weekend and leave a kennel full that need attention. It's not fair to my clients or their dogs. There are very few that I trust to run my dog and Chris is at the top of that list. I normally work both Saturday and Sunday training as well and my clients know it and commonly come out for weekend training. Now, back last year and the year before when I had 6 or more dogs to title out, I did so. I trained Thief from the time he was 7 weeks old. Put a HRCH title on him at 11 months old. Took a 6 pups that were of the age 11 months to 16 months old to a hunt test in Columbia, Missouri at some fancy lodge in which all 6 of my finish dogs passed while I ran them. Only 8 of 30 dogs passed. There were even GRHRCH dogs that failed. I think that says a lot for the dogs on my trailer. I trained Thief for one month after that on white coat and put him on a good friends truck where he got a jam in a derby after a couple tries. No big deal they were using big white markers out there. Trained Thief all summer, one week before a Master Test I put him on Cody Springer's Truck to run a Master (too many dogs in my kennel to leave) Cody and Thief passed. I then two weeks later brought Thief to Chris Akin a week before the Next Master and Brett Copeland passed him. Then one month before last fall's grand I put Thief on Chris's truck again. Thief went out in the 4th. Not too bad for a 2 year old. I hunted the snot outta him and he picked up close to a 1,000 wild birds which most folk's (white coat) dogs here have never seen a wild bird. Then after duck season it was off to finish master and get ready for the Grand. So, I dropped Thief off with Chris Akin again. No body else I trust more at the Grand than Chris. They got several master passes real quick then a pass at the Grand. Total of 2 and a half months Thief has been anywhere else in training from 7 weeks till today. 

Achievements... I'm pretty much a nobody and for darn sure no better than anyone.... But, I was a HRC finish judge for several years before my stint away from the test game. I've ran and passed hundreds of Finish and Master tests as well as the Grand. My pass rate has averaged 97%. Most of these tests were well before most of ya even knew anything about a diversion bird. And my good friends - Derek Randle, Chris Akin, Chris Jobman, Lyle Stienman, Larry McMurry, Dana Geovenello, Glenn Scarbrough, Bill Autrey, Lance Vines, Scott Greer, Bobby Wills and the list goes on can attest to those facts. I've been to Lardy, Farmer, Hillman and many more seminars to make sure I was well educated in retrievers and have been doing so for now almost 30 years. I cut my teeth training under Harvey Shoe..... I wonder who here even knew or remember him????

Now about "The Retriever Trainer". Based on primarily the basis of the Dobbs, Lardy, Farmers and other seminars I've been to as well as the countless dogs I've trained myself I've come to my own method using bits of pieces of each but I use a lot of Lardy. Thus, begins The Retriever Trainer where I'm going to let loose so much information on the subject of retriever training that nothing will ever rival it. I own all the camera equipment, all the editing equipment and have decades of experience editing and filming. Waterdog, Primos, SRS, Blood Brothers TV and countless other Tv shows. So, cost of production is literally nothing. Plus I can build websites and graphics as well adding to the genre of my talents. So, why not build a website with every step in progression to attain a meat dog as well as running the open game. Again, it's not brain science. It's dog training. Build it so cheap that no one can follow it or even want to. Yep, that I can do. Pretty much shot on high end equipment and edited to TV standards with diagrams, aerials and all. Already done. I'll show hundreds of different dogs running different drills from No No's to Staggered Blinds to water wagon wheel to on/off point drills. The exact thing my clients dogs see every single day. I'll show the good, the bad and the ugly. Plus, you can post vids of your own dog and get answers to issues within minutes. Here's the funny thing... I ain't doing it for the money. I tried to get HRC to let me do it for them and all they had to pay was the expenses and every member of HRC would have access to a never ending library of training knowledge. My time and labor were going to be free. Heck, I almost only charged $3.00 a month for this thing but the logistics of expenses wouldn't quite cover the start up. So, $5.00 a month it is and a lot of the extra monies I'm gonna give back thru give a ways. Free Versa Launchers, 3 gunner kennels, 2 benelli shotguns, Orca Coolers, Echo Duck Calls and more. I'm even going to give away a brand new boat, motor and trailer when we get to a certain membership number. How many others out there do that for their clients. How many other pros want to give back to the sport at this level. You can bet I will. I've already given away tons of items just on my personal page. Tons more to come as well. Rhino Dog Sleds, more Echo Duck Calls, SportDOG collars, Gunner Kennels and the list goes on - again. 

The most awesome thing about the website and pages unlike a lot of other sites or pages - we ALL want to see other folks retrievers achieve the highest standard and we ALL are on the same level playing ground. There's no junk or bull to wade thru and won't ever be. That's a Freddy King Guarantee....

Hope to See Ya There!!!!

RedHeadedHurricane
CAT5 Baby


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## Matt McKenzie

The man in the arena. You go, Freddy! Screw 'em.


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## Breck

Wow, aren't we special! 
Besides your production equipment you're gonna need a makeup artist to cover the #@*%


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## RedHeadedHurricane

Matt McKenzie said:


> The man in the arena. You go, Freddy! Screw 'em.


Where the heck is the LIKE button....


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## Rich65

RedHeadedHurricane said:


> Hmmmm,
> 
> It seems that about every 2 or 3 years I come back to RTF and find the same ol' song and dance that turns most folks off. Way too people on this site consider or think themselves to be the upper end circles of the retriever world. Tons of negativity and a lot of just plain non-sense. Again, I find myself somewhat feeling as if I need to defend myself but in reality, there's no need. It's the same circle as always and the same words as always... But, still I will play the game that the more liberal leftists of this page like to play as I can't be demoralized into their way of thinking.
> 
> First of all it's retriever training. It's not brain science and anyone can do it with just a little know how. Several people of this site think a few videos on youtube depict the general consensus of the training I might personally use for clients... NOPE, it's only a quick, efficient way for folks with little time and little space that train alone to end up with a nice solid meat dog for the upcoming duck season. However, the tools for progression into possibly a stronger retriever are there. Simplification at its finest. Free for everyone.
> 
> As for the questioning or remarks about Thief and why Chris Akin is running him... I will NOT run my own dog or one or two clients dogs on a weekend and leave a kennel full that need attention. It's not fair to my clients or their dogs. There are very few that I trust to run my dog and Chris is at the top of that list. I normally work both Saturday and Sunday training as well and my clients know it and commonly come out for weekend training. Now, back last year and the year before when I had 6 or more dogs to title out, I did so. I trained Thief from the time he was 7 weeks old. Put a HRCH title on him at 11 months old. Took a 6 pups that were of the age 11 months to 16 months old to a hunt test in Columbia, Missouri at some fancy lodge in which all 6 of my finish dogs passed while I ran them. Only 8 of 30 dogs passed. There were even GRHRCH dogs that failed. I think that says a lot for the dogs on my trailer. I trained Thief for one month after that on white coat and put him on a good friends truck where he got a jam in a derby after a couple tries. No big deal they were using big white markers out there. Trained Thief all summer, one week before a Master Test I put him on Cody Springer's Truck to run a Master (too many dogs in my kennel to leave) Cody and Thief passed. I then two weeks later brought Thief to Chris Akin a week before the Next Master and Brett Copeland passed him. Then one month before last fall's grand I put Thief on Chris's truck again. Thief went out in the 4th. Not too bad for a 2 year old. I hunted the snot outta him and he picked up close to a 1,000 wild birds which most folk's (white coat) dogs here have never seen a wild bird. Then after duck season it was off to finish master and get ready for the Grand. So, I dropped Thief off with Chris Akin again. No body else I trust more at the Grand than Chris. They got several master passes real quick then a pass at the Grand. Total of 2 and a half months Thief has been anywhere else in training from 7 weeks till today.
> 
> Achievements... I'm pretty much a nobody and for darn sure no better than anyone.... But, I was a HRC finish judge for several years before my stint away from the test game. I've ran and passed hundreds of Finish and Master tests as well as the Grand. My pass rate has averaged 97%. Most of these tests were well before most of ya even knew anything about a diversion bird. And my good friends - Derek Randle, Chris Akin, Chris Jobman, Lyle Stienman, Larry McMurry, Dana Geovenello, Glenn Scarbrough, Bill Autrey, Lance Vines, Scott Greer, Bobby Wills and the list goes on can attest to those facts. I've been to Lardy, Farmer, Hillman and many more seminars to make sure I was well educated in retrievers and have been doing so for now almost 30 years. I cut my teeth training under Harvey Shoe..... I wonder who here even knew or remember him????
> 
> Now about "The Retriever Trainer". Based on primarily the basis of the Dobbs, Lardy, Farmers and other seminars I've been to as well as the countless dogs I've trained myself I've come to my own method using bits of pieces of each but I use a lot of Lardy. Thus, begins The Retriever Trainer where I'm going to let loose so much information on the subject of retriever training that nothing will ever rival it. I own all the camera equipment, all the editing equipment and have decades of experience editing and filming. Waterdog, Primos, SRS, Blood Brothers TV and countless other Tv shows. So, cost of production is literally nothing. Plus I can build websites and graphics as well adding to the genre of my talents. So, why not build a website with every step in progression to attain a meat dog as well as running the open game. Again, it's not brain science. It's dog training. Build it so cheap that no one can follow it or even want to. Yep, that I can do. Pretty much shot on high end equipment and edited to TV standards with diagrams, aerials and all. Already done. I'll show hundreds of different dogs running different drills from No No's to Staggered Blinds to water wagon wheel to on/off point drills. The exact thing my clients dogs see every single day. I'll show the good, the bad and the ugly. Plus, you can post vids of your own dog and get answers to issues within minutes. Here's the funny thing... I ain't doing it for the money. I tried to get HRC to let me do it for them and all they had to pay was the expenses and every member of HRC would have access to a never ending library of training knowledge. My time and labor were going to be free. Heck, I almost only charged $3.00 a month for this thing but the logistics of expenses wouldn't quite cover the start up. So, $5.00 a month it is and a lot of the extra monies I'm gonna give back thru give a ways. Free Versa Launchers, 3 gunner kennels, 2 benelli shotguns, Orca Coolers, Echo Duck Calls and more. I'm even going to give away a brand new boat, motor and trailer when we get to a certain membership number. How many others out there do that for their clients. How many other pros want to give back to the sport at this level. You can bet I will. I've already given away tons of items just on my personal page. Tons more to come as well. Rhino Dog Sleds, more Echo Duck Calls, SportDOG collars, Gunner Kennels and the list goes on - again.
> 
> The most awesome thing about the website and pages unlike a lot of other sites or pages - we ALL want to see other folks retrievers achieve the highest standard and we ALL are on the same level playing ground. There's no junk or bull to wade thru and won't ever be. That's a Freddy King Guarantee....
> 
> Hope to See Ya There!!!!
> 
> RedHeadedHurricane
> 
> And that folks, is what is known as Mic Drop. Way to lay it out there Mr. King. The haters will hate, the wanna be's will follow whatever trend they're told and those that have an open mind will learn.


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## jd6400

Kn
ew Harvey well!He was Tommy Sorenson bboy...Jim
And it was Shue


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## RedHeadedHurricane

jd6400 said:


> Kn
> ew Harvey well!He was Tommy Sorenson bboy...Jim
> And it was Shue


You are exactly right. He worked for years for Mr. Robinson. I'd duck hunt with em' then throw birds and train afterwards. That was a long time ago when I was just a pup.


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## BCRETRIEVERS

Hahaha Freddy! And that icon! That'll shut em up! $60! I'd be willing to pay up front for the next 5 years based on the content already on The Retriever Trainer! Solid, well worth the price of admission!


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## Todd Caswell

As the old saying goes.... "You get What You Pay For"


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## BCRETRIEVERS

That's exactly right Todd. I know what I got for my money and couldn't be more pleased with the content. You, on the other hand don't know what you're missing...and are quite happy not knowing if "The Retriever Trainer" is worth the asking price. If that's "getting what you paid for", you got it!


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## Todd Caswell

BCRETRIEVERS said:


> That's exactly right Todd. I know what I got for my money and couldn't be more pleased with the content. You, on the other hand don't know what you're missing...and are quite happy not knowing if "The Retriever Trainer" is worth the asking price. If that's "getting what you paid for", you got it!



You have 15 posts, and your not using your real name, hard to tell if you know anything, other than you signed up for a $60 dollar internet training program and at this time it works for you and your dog. And yes I do know what I am missing, if i had thought it was worth $60 I would have signed up for it, thanks for the concern.


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## Happy Gilmore

I'm thinking about reporting unruliness to an admin.


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## gdgnyc

FWIW

I like Freddy. I like Freddy's videos. I saw one video where he is working two dogs on a pond. I was impressed. Nice work.


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## RedHeadedHurricane

Pfancy Pants said:


> I'm thinking about reporting unruliness to an admin.


Don't do that! I like messing with these liberals in their "SAFE PLACE". Problem is it's "SAFE" no more cause they've been infiltrated by FREDDY!.This site has turned into one of those liberal colleges with the thought process of either you think like me or your the devil and I'll call you names while destroying the very institution I attend. 

It's only dog training - no PHD required - just a plan and common sense.


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## Zach Fisher

I think a lot of people here have forgotten about the unwashed masses of hunting dog "trainers". I doubt Freddy put this up for pro FT trainers to add techniques to their repertoire.

The guy that throws half a box of Black Cloud in the swamp so Drake will pick up a duck...they can get some benefit from this. Maybe they find out they want more dog and they find out about Lardy, Farmer et al. That's not a bad thing.


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## lorneparker1

Zach Fisher said:


> I think a lot of people here have forgotten about the unwashed masses of hunting dog "trainers". I doubt Freddy put this up for pro FT trainers to add techniques to their repertoire.
> 
> The guy that throws half a box of Black Cloud in the swamp so Drake will pick up a duck...they can get some benefit from this. Maybe they find out they want more dog and they find out about Lardy, Farmer et al. That's not a bad thing.



Agreed 100%


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## Payce

Been off this site for a couple of months. Lots of reasons why. One of them is I'm first and foremost a hunter. Enjoy training and know nothing, but always want to learn from everyone and Freddy, I have always enjoyed your info as well. I have decided I don't need a MH nor FC on my dogs registration to enjoy my dog and have her do a great job. It seems many have lost sight of the fact that our dogs we love were breed for HUNTING. One of the trainers I respect greatly and has also helped me more than I can ever repay doesn't do any HT or FT.

Point is there are people out there like me. For those who's key focus is HT and FT. Glad to see that as well. If your love is the test game more power to you and we hunters really appreciate what you do and how it helps us. Please remember this......there are more hunters than test dog people. Let's show each other some respect or many hunters wanting a better dog will just go away. I know I will. I can get a good dog with Freddy's help. I don't need to be insulted and sure as he** will walk away from this site again if insulted and lectured too. Life is too short to put up with that crap. Will those that love to lecture care, no....neither will I.

Throwing Freddy's work under the bus is just rude and egotistical. One of the main reasons I just don't visit much anymore. A few on this site seem to think they are the One. The known it all. Funny thing is I have not seen that kind of response from the top trainers. They all seem to be good people that show others an open mind.

In the end......how about showing respect to each other? Is that too much to ask?

Let the lecturing begin......


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## ErinsEdge

Lets call it what it is. A business venture. Either you buy it or not. It has nothing to do with Liberals, elitists, snobs etc. Everyone has the right to charge for their ideas. If you put it out there though, people do have the right to criticize. Criticism is not the same as insulting.


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## carolinagold

I agree if a person is charging for training advice. He is open to review by the retriever community. If the advice works he does not have to worry about critism.


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## Payce

ErinsEdge said:


> Lets call it what it is. A business venture. Either you buy it or not. It has nothing to do with Liberals, elitists, snobs etc. Everyone has the right to charge for their ideas. If you put it out there though, people do have the right to criticize. Criticism is not the same as insulting.


. Yes there is a difference. Criticism done well is specific to an issue. Saying he has nothing to offer is an is an insult and can only be taken as personal. Judging someone's work after referencing a couple of minutes of one video is not citicism. Snarky comments about his methods or work is not criticism, it's an insult. Saying someone misses detail on a certain training routine is critcisim. Saying someones entire body of work is a waste of time is an insult, especially if you have not watched it.

Something else.....inferring the average hunter has to pay huge amounts of money for training material to have a dog
that hunts well and does what it is supposed to do in a blind or in the field, and if you don't somehow or another you are less of a trainer and your dog is worthless is not criticism.....it's demeaning. One of the best dogs I have ever watched work in the field was trained using an old book from the 70's. Dog did exactly what it is supposed to do when it was supposed to do. 
Criticism I'm good with if it's constructive and has purpose. Hey if an individual wants to slam people and hide behind the "it was just criticisim", have at it. I equate it to telling your kid their worthless. Does nothing good and can cause problems, especially if I'm close by and hear you say it. Not a physical threat, but I will tell the person what I think of the comment very directly.

Back to my point..... we need to show each other respect or is the new norm we all need to be jerks to each
other?


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## ErinsEdge

> Saying he has nothing to offer is an is an insult and can only be taken as personal..inferring the average hunter has to pay huge amounts of money for training material


I'm not seeing what you are seeing unless these posts have been deleted. By far the majority of posts are positive. If you are going to put it out there for money, you have to expect negative comments, including those that bruise egos.


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## polmaise

I personally don't think if any one 'Put's it out there for money' should expect negative comments unless the comments are born from negativity .
Ego's are ,well.....How good are You actually ? ..Show me Your dog.
I watch 'Freddy' and he is a scream ! and Peanut . Reckon he is smarter than many who think they have a dog . 
What You selling ? 
Pups ? 
Training?
Boarding ?
Food?
DVD'S?
.....
Marketing anything on a forum takes 'nice stuff' to get 'Nice folk' liking nice Nice folk selling to nice folk with nice things ..
A bit like 'Do You wanna be in my gang' . 
I would hang out with Freddy any day of the week , and I haven't ever met him .


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## Payce

ErinsEdge said:


> I'm not seeing what you are seeing unless these posts have been deleted. By far the majority of posts are positive. If you are going to put it out there for money, you have to expect negative comments, including those that bruise egos.


. Nancy your point is well taken. Some of this is understanding who post and why.


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## saltgrass

We all have our opinions on everything don't mean it should be said , when we don't know the facts or who or what we are talking about. 

Not that it makers yes a large number of people never have heard of Freddy King, Just a little bio from a post i saw somewhere. He has been training dogs for 30yrs, has judged for HRC for 8yrs, has many HRCH Finished , MH passes Few GRAND passes and film's for many different hunting video's. 

No i don't know all that to be fact but don't see why he would put it out ther to someone if it wasn't.


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## Payce

saltgrass said:


> We all have our opinions on everything don't mean it should be said , when we don't know the facts or who or what we are talking about.


 Well said!


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## Beanboots

I have been in and out of the game longer than most have been in,watched them come and go.


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## Maddog10

People get attached to their ways/beliefs and aren't always welcoming to a different perspective, even if that perspective is similar to what they already believe. Any variance is considered inferior. 

Saw a video back during the election where a reporter asked bystanders their thoughts on various political topics. The reporter would mix Hillary's ideas with Trump's name, and Trump's ideas with Hillary's name. The people he interviewed were oblivious to it, and it became apparent very quickly that their beliefs on the candidate heavily outweighed their beliefs on the actual topic. Clinton supporters blindly agreed with Trump's policies, and Trump supporters blindly agreed with Hillary's policies. The policy didn't matter, only the person. 

That feels like the case here. Freddy clearly states that most of his training philosophy comes from Lardy. Yet some still believe that he presents nothing of use, and that you should spend your money on a more established program (such as Lardy)... Again, it seems like it's the person that's important, not the philosophy. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


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## Matt Duncan

Haven't seen the videos but it sounds like one more thing that may encourage or help folks actually do something productive with their dogs. Especially the gun dog folks. Way too many dogs out there hunting with little to no training at all. See it on social media all the time where a dog is either shot or goes after a retrieve and never comes back. Don't know Freddy but seems as if he has helped some folks. But I'm all for anything that encourages owners to be proactive with their dogs. Don't think it's anyone's place to throw stones either. I don't know the content but if you've been around dogs for more than a month you know there are many methods, mentalities and styles that can get a dog where it's owner what's it to be.


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## mikehmike

I watched all his videos before my pup came home with me...hell I watched them on an ipad inside the pen with all the puppies climbing all over me. Never really and still don't see why people are against his methods...saw someone on facebook yesterday posting a video of his dog's progress with freddy. But I don't know anything and I use a professional so my word doesn't hold much water...


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## Ttucke13

Here's my two cents, 

I'm still relatively new to the retriever world (3 years or so), and the first dog I did basics on (cc,ff, etc.) I watched Freddy Kings videos. He helped me 
visualize what my dog should be thinking and it helped me understand the concept of each step as my dog (and myself) progressed. This being said, 
I had trained with a hunt test pro for awhile and watched him train young dogs and I had read the Total Retriever series by Lardy. I found myself using 
a combination of all of these. It helped me tremendously finding good grounds and water to train on, but I must give credit to Freddy on youtube for helping 
me get my dog to the level he's at today. He turned 2 a month ago and has 9 derby points and is Qualified All Age. Never would of thought my duck dog would have turned out to be a nice field trial dog ;-)


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## RedHeadedHurricane

The Retriever Trainer website and retriever video library is complete different than the YouTube videos I posted several years ago for the novice meat dog owner. This website is becoming as in depth as possible in every aspect of retriever training. I'm a Lardy fan and always have been and use a lot of his, as well as Farmer, Dobbs, Washburn, Big Al and several others methods all rolled up in one with my own twists and turns. Everything about The Retriever Trainer is alive. It's a never ending and a growing data base of retriever knowledge from setups to drills and more.


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## Jon Shinneman

RedHeadedHurricane said:


> Where the heck is the LIKE button....


More reasons why I dont frequent this site anymore!!! You sing it Freddy!!!!! Piss on this place and ALL the Libtard HATERs period.

Jon Shinneman


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## Maddog10

Now that the site has been up and running for a few weeks, what are your thoughts on it if you are a member? Would be curious to hear some early reviews.


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## Tobias

I watched a 'freebie' video this morning. A huge improvement over his former 'free' videos. it was, at least, informative, engaging, and enjoyable to watch and listen to. Did I learn anything? No... but certainly others may, depending on their skill level.


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## Breck

Jon Shinneman said:


> More reasons why I dont frequent this site anymore!!! You sing it Freddy!!!!! Piss on this place and ALL the Libtard HATERs period.
> 
> Jon Shinneman


Aren't you special.


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## mountaindogs

Rather than start a new thread on the same thing, I'll dredge up this one. I just wondered, since much time has passed, what you all think if this site these days. Is it worth a membership? Is new stuff being added very often? are the setup diagrams helpful? is there a better resource for setup diagrams? etc.


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## Daren Galloway

mountaindogs said:


> Rather than start a new thread on the same thing, I'll dredge up this one. I just wondered, since much time has passed, what you all think if this site these days. Is it worth a membership? Is new stuff being added very often? are the setup diagrams helpful? is there a better resource for setup diagrams? etc.


Have you watched any of his clips on youtube or facebook? I recommend watching a few, and watching a few clips of Hillman, Lardy, Farmer, etc and decide who you'd rather learn from.


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## Scott Krueger

nope. i'm just curious why he doesn't run his own dogs? imo, like a callmaker using somebody else's calls.....jmo


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## big trax

I have Evan Graham's SmartWork series, Lardy's TRT complete series and Dennis Voight's videos. Though I have only run a few trials, I have run many hunt tests over the years. Freddy's site is $5 per month. I participate in discussions there very often. I certainly do not consider myself an expert, but thinking back to my first few dogs...would The Retriever Trainer membership have benefited me? ABSOLUTELY!

What makes Freddy's site unique, in my opinion, and especially beneficial to the new trainer or owner of one dog, is the fact that Freddy and members post videos of real training. Now I've watched many training videos on Youtube and those that I own and heard trainers say. "This is the first time this dog has done this drill." I'm not doubting them, but the reality is, I've never seen a dog botch it up. Freddy shows it all. Trainers see how he and others handle that dog and that situation.

We all know this stuff is not cookie cutter and we all read recommendations here about following a program. The reality for me is, I started with SmartWorks, trained with a pro for a number of years (who is a Lardyitye) so, I purchased the Lardy material and what I have become in the last 10 or 12 years is my own trainer- good bad or indifferent...I have become a trainer who meshes a lot of things which based on my experience, work for me. We don't all do things the same way. Freddy's site is $5 per month. There are tons of new guys with their first dog. 

My hat is off to Freddy. If he has done nothing else, he has increased hunt test entries at many clubs big time. He's helped to increase club membership and participation. He's helped folks become aware of safety issues and health issues for dogs. He's helped to promote the selection of pedigrees and those deeds help breeders and manufactures of training equipment etc. In short, I believe what his site accomplishes for dogs and our beloved game is invaluable. 

Do I do everything like Freddy does? No, but I am not new. The new guys on his site may do everything like he does, but I'd say if they stay around long, like the rest of us, they will mold themselves into a trainer of the dog who sits before him. Everyone has to start somewhere and Freddy has given an excellent start to many guys who would otherwise be in a blind this fall with a disobedient dog who doesn't handle.


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## cmccallum

It's $5 a month. It's worth that even if you only pick up one tip a month. I'm not very active over there, but I do try to check the page about once a week or two. 

There are a lot of pros on his page that chip in unbiased advice. Freddy does a good job of policing and keeping the BS out. I'd love to see more FT trainers who are active in social media get involved with his page. From all accounts, they would be welcomed with open arms and would be helping out a TON of brand new people who are getting into retriever training. 

I don't really think it's about "Freddy's method", it's more about having a common place to share all thoughts on particular training subjects and if you want to do it Freddy's way, you are welcome to do that. If not, you won't be crucified and you will have other opinions and ideas on that particular thing.


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## Taylor.Jackson

I dont know Freddy and dont know that this is totally the truth, but it makes sense to me why he doesnt run his own dog "Thief". He has dogs to train, videos to make, and several other obligations that keep him from running big tests. it wouldn't be fair to all the other dogs if he just concentrated on Thief. A lot of people bash on Freddy, and thats fine. But I think its obvious he has nice dogs, kills a lot of ducks, and promotes our sport a ton.


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## big trax

Taylor.Jackson said:


> I dont know Freddy and dont know that this is totally the truth, but it makes sense to me why he doesnt run his own dog "Thief". He has dogs to train, videos to make, and several other obligations that keep him from running big tests. it wouldn't be fair to all the other dogs if he just concentrated on Thief. A lot of people bash on Freddy, and thats fine. But I think its obvious he has nice dogs, kills a lot of ducks, and promotes our sport a ton.


Exactly and though the HRC Grand may not be everyone's cup of tea, it is a cup of a different nature. It is a difficult test. Are grand dogs better than FC / AFC's? I'm not saying nor debating that. What I am saying is it is a different game and much more difficult than the average weekend test in that a dog has to be nearly perfect for five days of testing with extremely tight line manners. If I were a pro, I'd have to consider having someone like Chris Akin or Stephen Durrence run my dog in the grand. These guys do this year after year and have had success. They train specifically for the grand for weeks leading up to the event- I talked with Akin about running one of mine. He wanted her two months prior to the grand. 

That said, if Freddy or any other trainer who has a kennel full of dogs on the force table and in yard work wants to run the grand with their own or client dogs, someone's dog will suffer lack of training. Most of the pros I know who run the grand also have assistant trainers who take care of the young dog work while they run finished dogs and I know one who prorates his fee for the month for all the pups left at home the two weeks he is gone. 

I don't want to bash any trainer. A trainer and his client are free to their own arrangement and I have no problem with it, but I respect Freddy for his openness and honesty around the situation. In addition, if I take my truck to my regular mechanic and he needs to call a colleague to get some info about my engine because he hasn't had as much experience with the particular model, I don't think any less of him as a mechanic. Instead, I am appreciative of the fact he's concerned enough to get it right.


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## martyhanson23

Very Well Said Freddy!

I'm with you brother!

Keep up the Good Work!


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## mstogsdill

It's a super way to get to view many videos, and he shows how he handles the good and bad. I find it amazing his willingness to offer so many videos for such a low cost.


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## mrman

My number one critique is that Freddy used the abbreviations that most of the older guys have been using for a long time to describe a completely different training program. TRT was always Total Retriever Training, which is no longer the case, and it is now being marketed on t shirts, stickers, hats etc. Id be pretty upset if I had been selling a product for decades that people knew and recognized as TRT, but hey who am I to say something. I don't even use my real name on here.


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## mrman

As a matter of fact it looks like Mike's "Training Schematic" was pretty much copy and pasted to the website, with a few MINOR changes.


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## saltgrass

Scott Krueger said:


> nope. i'm just curious why he doesn't run his own dogs? imo, like a callmaker using somebody else's calls.....jmo


I would guess due to the fact that he is training gun dogs and not running test every weekend..... so he sends his personal dogs to a pro hunt test/ gun dog trainer to run his dogs. Don't see the issue..


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## Chris Atkinson

Scott Krueger said:


> nope. i'm just curious why he doesn't run his own dogs? imo, like a callmaker using somebody else's calls.....jmo


It is like that. There have been several callmakers who have blown someone else's call.

Bernie Boyle competed with Rick Dunn's Echo but he had his own make of call - Mallard Mauler. (I judged that contest actually. It was one of his last. He won the World's for his second time in that contest. )

Christian Curtis and Keith Allen both had their own call brand, but competed with someone else's call. Later their brand was purchased by RNT - Timbre.

It's actually a really good analogy. the examples above are guys who made "meat calls" but also did Mainstreet competition. They knew that there were other specialists who made calls that were better for them on the stage.

It's a pretty good analogy to gundogs versus trial/test dogs.

Chris


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## TexasAce

Wow, there are a lot of nasty comments here. I also know little or nothing about training a dog, and my perspective may be a little different than most here. I am a fairly new trainer and I live in a rural area that is nowhere near any training groups. I own all of Lardy's materials both on DVD and in print. I own Hillman's puppy video as well as his fetch video. I have found these to have gaps where things are not explained as thoroughly as I needed them to be and left me with a lot of unanswered questions and have left me guessing. In the past, when I have asked questions, the responses have often been "join a training group". The way I look at it is that Freddy is at least as knowledgeable as the other amateurs I would find in a club or training group. I decided to give it a try and I am glad I did. In the few days that I have been watching his videos, I have found several answers to issues that the other programs have left unaddressed or just skimmed over. I do not really understand the negativity and nastiness by some on here, but I am a teacher and I do know that a good teacher will have more than one teaching method in his bag of tricks. Not every "student" will learn the same way or have the same needs and it is up to the teacher to do what is necessary to make sure that the "student" is successful. I am thankful for his service and especially because it is so affordable. That is just my opinion though. (I don't even use my real name on here.)


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## crackerd

Chris Atkinson said:


> It is like that. There have been several callmakers who have blown someone else's call.
> ...It's actually a really good analogy. the examples above are guys who made "meat calls" but also did Mainstreet competition. They knew that there were other specialists who made calls that were better for them on the stage.


What's the "call" on my homie that you mentioned a while back? He makes nice lanyards, credit given.

MG


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## Chris Atkinson

crackerd said:


> What's the "call" on my homie that you mentioned a while back? He makes nice lanyards, credit given.
> 
> MG


That would be Allan Stanley and the Allan Stanley Deceiver. Allan has qualified for, and competed in the world's for more consecutive years than anyone else in Stuttgart calling history, I believe.

Allan got started using Greg Hood's Southern Game Calls, but starting making his own call when Christian and Keith sold Timbre to RNT. Allan bought Christian's lathe and equipment and "the Deceiver" was born.


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## Hoytman

I would like the link to Freddy's website via pm if someone would send it to me.

I'll take all the information I can get from anyone willing to show/teach me. That list would include:

My retired neighbor ( ran a hunt club years ago for 25 years and used labs), Evan Graham, Robert Milner, Mike Lardy, Mike Stewart, Danny Farmer, Mike Gould, Chris Akin, Bill Best, Delmar/Rick/Ronnie Smith, Bill Gibbons, Lyle Steinman, Jim Boyer (Kwicklabs), Julie Knutson, Butch Goodwin, Hillman, Hickox, Voigt, fellow HRC folks I know, etc., and yes a guy I just learned about...Freddy King. I've had plenty of personal contact with no less than 8 of these folks and I read after the rest...not counting neighbors and HRC folks.

Life's much too short to be a hater of anyone of these...the dogs are our common bond. We should be good and respectful to all we encounter.

I haven't found a dog man yet that I couldn't learn something from. I have great admiration for all of them. I take what I can and use it the rest I place in the back of my mind.

One thing people forget...
Every single person mentioned above and those I didn't mention have the option of keeping their knowledge to themselves. I for one am glad they chose to share what they know, by what ever means...free...seminars...books...emails...phone calls...but it hard to beat cheap and/or free...and all for the betterment of the trainers and ultimately the dogs.


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## David Lo Buono

The Deciever is sweeeet. That and my RNT DC. Goose my Saunders traffic with game used guts(on my 3rd set had the call since 2003) & Bay Country Shore thing. 

Freddie King never heard of her....


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## Rick Hall

Chris Atkinson said:


> That would be Allan Stanley and the Allan Stanley Deceiver. Allan has qualified for, and competed in the world's for more consecutive years than anyone else in Stuttgart calling history, I believe.
> 
> Allan got started using Greg Hood's Southern Game Calls, but starting making his own call when Christian and Keith sold Timbre to RNT. Allan bought Christian's lathe and equipment and "the Deceiver" was born.


Though his site was still up, when I spoke to Alan about buying a Deceiver last year, he told me he was taking an indefinite leave from call making. Bought one on the used market and found it a great tool for breaking down high/wide/windy day birds beyond the reach of my workhorse MVP. Not just extra loud but easy running from those "contest" hails them what don't know say have no place in the marsh to "Go ahead and kill them."


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## Payce

Hoytman said:


> I would like the link to Freddy's website via pm if someone would send it to me.
> 
> I'll take all the information I can get from anyone willing to show/teach me. That list would include:
> 
> My retired neighbor ( ran a hunt club years ago for 25 years and used labs), Evan Graham, Robert Milner, Mike Lardy, Mike Stewart, Danny Farmer, Mike Gould, Chris Akin, Bill Best, Delmar/Rick/Ronnie Smith, Bill Gibbons, Lyle Steinman, Jim Boyer (Kwicklabs), Julie Knutson, Butch Goodwin, Hillman, Hickox, Voigt, fellow HRC folks I know, etc., and yes a guy I just learned about...Freddy King. I've had plenty of personal contact with no less than 8 of these folks and I read after the rest...not counting neighbors and HRC folks.
> 
> Life's much too short to be a hater of anyone of these...the dogs are our common bond. We should be good and respectful to all we encounter.
> 
> I haven't found a dog man yet that I couldn't learn something from. I have great admiration for all of them. I take what I can and use it the rest I place in the back of my mind.
> 
> One thing people forget...
> Every single person mentioned above and those I didn't mention have the option of keeping their knowledge to themselves. I for one am glad they chose to share what they know, by what ever means...free...seminars...books...emails...phone calls...but it hard to beat cheap and/or free...and all for the betterment of the trainers and ultimately the dogs.


 Nice summary. Old saying, there isn’t any one of us as smart as all of us. I’m a rookie and like you, find listening to all trainers helps me understand.
Payce


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