# Pro owning there own dogs... I tried a search



## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

How do people feel about field trial pros having there own personal dogs? I thought I remembered a thread about this years ago but couldn't seem to find it.


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## jeff evans (Jun 9, 2008)

Each pro has their own thought on the subject, IMHO it's not ethically wrong and most the time those pups get sold to a client in such camp. Always need an up an coming star and it's good for the kennel and pro.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

What if they don't sell it and it accumulates alot of AA points? No I don't have anyone in mind nor am I wanting a debate. Someone that I was just thinking about


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

> How do people feel about field trial pros having there own personal dogs?


How do you feel about it?


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

I wouldn't have a problem with it.I know of one pro who after his dog gets qualified for the national stops running it.I even have a pup out of the dog.
I have another dog with a different pro but not for any reason other than know the other pro better.


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## J.D. Penn (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't see any reason it matters who owns the the dog. If pro A wants to haul one of his own, then that's his deal. What's the difference if the dog is a washout or high point dog?


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## Chad G (Oct 17, 2008)

Most clients don't like it when their dog gets beat by their pros personal dog.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

junfan68 said:


> How do you feel about it?


I don't feel it's that big of deal. I just heard it brought up at a trial this weekend.


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## Ron in Portland (Apr 1, 2006)

In the words of a long timer RTF'er, "it depends".

Does the Pro do things that are to the detriment of their client's dogs? If so, that's between them and their clients (and I don't imagine that most clients would take that too well if they felt that way).

It goes the other way as well. I've seen it asked here on multiple occasions why Merlyn doesn't get bred more. The response was that the Pro that owns him also runs and promotes Pirate (seems its a close race between him and Grady as to who gets more action) so he's low key on Merlyn. (Of course with more Merlyn pups starting to run, I think you'll hear more on him)

Would it matter to me? If I thought my dog was getting shorted because of a Pro's dog, I'd have to decide if the issue was the Pro or the dog. Just like in Professional Sports, its sometimes easier to fire the Coach than fix the players. 

I would think that the Market would determine if it was a problem or not, and it would be self correcting.


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## J.D. Penn (Feb 3, 2010)

Chad G said:


> Most clients don't like it when their dog gets beat by their pros personal dog.


Then send him to someone else.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

I don't see anything wrong with it. The pro "going to school" on his early dogs is true regardless, it's the luck of the draw running order. I can't imagine a pro owning multiple all age dogs, as that would cut into his/her revenue. In all the cases I have seen, it is a pro who buys a nicely bred pup to raise and train as an investment. If the pup works out well and makes a name in the derby and or Qual, the pro usually sells the dog to a client with the stipulation being that the new owner will leave the dog with said pro.

John


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## Criquetpas (Sep 14, 2004)

IF I were a client of a Pro who has his/her own dogs they are campaigning I would question how much is my dog being trained. This would only apply to a all-age dog. Young dogs Derby and younger who cares! Since I don't have a dog with a Pro I really don't care either way. Thats why there is a amateur all-age stake and you have run against the Pro in the Open anyway.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

More power to them if they can do it.....they still have to pay the bills, and deep pocket Client A and Client 1A might mean more to them business wise than their own dog...

bottom line is a Pro wants to win, look at Danny F. he has won the last four trials but not with the same dog...lots of happy owners there


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

BonMallari said:


> More power to them if they can do it.....they still have to pay the bills, and deep pocket Client A and Client 1A might mean more to them business wise than their own dog...
> 
> bottom line is a Pro wants to win, look at Danny F. he has won the last four trials but not with the same dog...lots of happy owners there


You know what's funny is that I have heard it mentioned several times lately at trials that Danny doesn't have near as good of quality dogs as he has had in past yet he has been on a winning streak and with diff dogs.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> You know what's funny is that I have heard it mentioned several times lately at trials that Danny doesn't have near as good of quality dogs as he has had in past yet he has been on a winning streak and with diff dogs.


It goes that way sometimes...

FWIW I wouldn't put a dog with an AA pro that was running his personal dogs. It's a conflict of interest if you ask me.

Angie


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

fowl hunter said:


> You know what's funny is that I have heard it mentioned several times lately at trials that Danny doesn't have near as good of quality dogs as he has had in past yet he has been on a winning streak and with diff dogs.


Keep posting everything you hear at a weekend FT and people are going to stop talking to you.....


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

savage25xtreme said:


> Keep posting everything you hear at a weekend FT and people are going to stop talking to you.....


Now you're getting the hang of it, starting to sound like an old-timer. ;-)


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Never said it was mentioned to me. I said I heard it. And please, have you been to a field trial? The people in the gallery don't seem to care all that often who hears what they are talking about. And one thing about me, I will say ANYTHINg in person that I will say on here, I won't ever hide behind a screen name.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

fowl hunter said:


> You know what's funny is that* I have heard it mentioned several times lately at trials that Danny doesn't have near as good of quality dogs as he has had in past *yet he has been on a winning streak and with diff dogs.


that must be from the people who are on the waiting list or who couldn't get on his truck

One of his clients FC AFC Hilltop's High Society (Gracie) won the Open this weekend with owner Sylvia McClure at the helm...she is a National player


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

BonMallari said:


> that must be from the people who are on the waiting list or who couldn't get on his truck
> 
> One of his clients FC AFC Hilltop's High Society (Gracie) won the Open this weekend with owner Sylvia McClure at the helm...she is a National player


Yes I know. Sylvia is a very nice person with an awesome dog. Tom Watsons dog has been doing nice and so has cash. Just to name a few. Danny has alot of talent on his truck. I have enjoyed watching his dogs run.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

Rainmaker said:


> Now you're getting the hang of it, starting to sound like an old-timer. ;-)


Love me some Gavin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3ZAGBL6UBA


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Angie B said:


> It goes that way sometimes...
> 
> FWIW I wouldn't put a dog with an AA pro that was running his personal dogs. It's a conflict of interest if you ask me.
> 
> Angie


now what if the pro happened to own a dog, and put that dog on the truck of another pro to avoid any conflict of interest. And then they were all at the same trial. And the dog that the pro owned that was with another pro WON! Would folk say the pro did not try hard enough to win against his/her own dog that he/she was not running? It is a never ending circus. Imagine, in the same nature as an Owner/ Handler Q, an Owner/Pro Open. Where only Pro's could run with dogs they owned! Wouldn't the AKC love that paperwork massacre?

personally I think a professional dog trainer should be aloud to do whatever the heck they want with the space on their truck. And as for any advantage or preference....
well who really knows what dog is gonna get out of any of our trucks on any given Jekyll and Hyde day of running dogs?
　
　
.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> Never said it was mentioned to me. I said I heard it. And please, have you been to a field trial? The people in the gallery don't seem to care all that often who hears what they are talking about. And one thing about me, I will say ANYTHINg in person that I will say on here,* I won't ever hide behind a screen name*.


Right, just a fake name that people ended up figuring out.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

fowl hunter said:


> ...... I won't ever hide behind a screen name.


 
so your mama calls you fowl hunter

come on man!
it took us forever and a day to get your name out of you 


.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

ErinsEdge said:


> Right, just a fake name that people ended up figuring out.


People figured out? I used it as a sign on name ONLY WHiLE Chris was trying to figure out my old password so I could sign back in with it. As soon as he did he combined the acct for me. I can guarantee that I will never hide behind a comp screen name. If I call u an ass on here you can bet I will call u an ass in person unlike alot of people.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> so your mama calls you fowl hunter
> 
> come on man!
> it took us forever and a day to get your name out of you
> ...


Seriously? I have been here since 2004. Plenty of people know my name.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> so your mama calls you fowl hunter
> 
> come on man!
> it took us forever and a day to get your name out of you
> ...


Forever and a day? I think I had the other screen name a couple of days. I added my name to my signature so there isn't any confusion.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

fowl hunter said:


> Seriously? I have been here since 2004. Plenty of people know my name.


Hahahahaha, they sure do now.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I loved all the dumb noob questions that went along with the name.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> I loved all the dumb noob questions that went along with the name.



He's not a noob. He's been here since 2004. He's more like a slow learner, or "special" or something or other....

/Paul


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> now what if the pro happened to own a dog, and put that dog on the truck of another pro to avoid any conflict of interest. And then they were all at the same trial. And the dog that the pro owned that was with another pro WON! Would folk say the pro did not try hard enough to win against his/her own dog that he/she was not running? It is a never ending circus. Imagine, in the same nature as an Owner/ Handler Q, an Owner/Pro Open. Where only Pro's could run with dogs they owned! Wouldn't the AKC love that paperwork massacre?
> 
> personally I think a professional dog trainer should be aloud to do whatever the heck they want with the space on their truck. And as for any advantage or preference....
> well who really knows what dog is gonna get out of any of our trucks on any given Jekyll and Hyde day of running dogs?
> ...


I'm speechless.... Well maybe not...  I'm sorry Ken but my mind never ever considered the possibility. Yes a pro can do whatever they want to. Does it make good business sense??? Since no one has done it hard to tell.

Angie


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> He's not a noob. He's been here since 2004. He's more like a slow learner, or "special" or something or other....
> 
> /Paul


Wow you got it all figured out. Congrats. ))


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

You left coasters sure have been mean in 2012. Are ya'll taking Arnolds steroids and got the rage syndrone?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

One thing to remember...if a pro fills a spot with a personal dog, that spot earns no training money. So if they choose to do it, it takes money out of their pocket. I wouldn't be concerned unless the pros dog was consistently doing a lot better than the client dogs.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Angie B said:


> I'm speechless.... Well maybe not...  I'm sorry Ken but my mind never ever considered the possibility. . . . .
> 
> Angie


I should get brownie points for that ;-)



.


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## Webbs515 (Feb 6, 2010)

Chad G said:


> Most clients don't like it when their dog gets beat by their pros personal dog.


I can see in a ft setting the conflict here. But I know both ft and ht pros that have their own dogs and their personal dogs are always the best on the truck. I personally find it concerning that a trainer wouldn't even have a dog. Y is he training dogs anyways. To make millions of dollars. Yeah right. Lol


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## DOG MAGNET (Feb 22, 2011)

My pro and I have pups from the same litter on his truck. This is my first attempt at field trials and using a pro like this. I have no issues with him having competing dog on truck. Yes, his pup is better, mainly because it was in full time training with him the first 6 months. I have no concerns with a conflict of interest. He wants to win so bad, he doesnt care who on his truck wins, as long as one of them does. If he was able to place both dogs in a derby, I dont think he would care which one did better.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Sharon Potter said:


> One thing to remember...if a pro fills a spot with a personal dog, that spot earns no training money. So if they choose to do it, it takes money out of their pocket. I wouldn't be concerned unless the pros dog was consistently doing a lot better than the client dogs.


Bingo,,, his own dogs cost him money. It doesn't make good business sense anyway you look at it. Now if it was a derby dog or qualifying dog being trained for resale to someone, (hopefully on their truck) that's another thing. Some young dog pro's do this but they don't do it when they have a full truck of client dogs.

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> I should get brownie points for that ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> .


You bet... That took some stretch of the imagination.

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

How many of you who have posted have or have had all age dogs? How many of those that you have, have had their dogs/dog with a AA pro that ran their own AA dog?

Just curious??

Angie


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't care how many dogs a pro owns/runs/whatever. For the most part, they have no desire to keep the dog longer than the amount of time they wait to sale the prospect to a client. If it's not good enough for FTs, well, figure it out. Even if they decide to own a dog & run it, that's their business. I couldn't care less what somebody does with their dog. You have to beat the dog no matter who owns it.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Angie B said:


> How many of you who have posted have or have had all age dogs? How many of those that you have, have had their dogs/dog with a AA pro that ran their own AA dog?
> 
> Just curious??
> 
> Angie


Never an all age dog-they were usually sold to a client by then. Derby, rarely qual.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

fowl hunter said:


> You know what's funny is that I have heard it mentioned several times lately at trials that Danny doesn't have near as good of quality dogs as he has had in past yet he has been on a winning streak and with diff dogs.


Well, he's not doing it with smoke & mirrors. He has talented dogs & they're running really well. Of course, IMO & a boat load of other people's opinions, he's the best. There's plenty to be said about how dogs just do better on his truck than the truck they were own before. Granted the vast amount of time he's been dominate plays into things as well. He's healthy this year. When he's healthy, he's awfully hard to beat.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> People figured out? *I used it as a sign on name ONLY WHiLE Chris was trying to figure out my old password so I could sign back in with it.* As soon as he did he combined the acct for me. I can guarantee that I will never hide behind a comp screen name. If I call u an ass on here you can bet I will call u an ass in person unlike alot of people.


This is not accurate.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> Forever and a day? I think I had the other screen name a couple of days. I added my name to my signature so there isn't any confusion.


 
This is inaccurate.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

It's not? As soon as u wrote me I told u I could not log into old acct due to not knowing my password. U ask if I remembered my email address so u could figure it out. I sent you my new email address and you sent me a new password.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Once I got a new password you combined accts correct?


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Then how long was it? You are more than welcome to correct me. I didn't care to go back and count days but feel free to


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Angie B said:


> How many of you who have posted have or have had all age dogs? How many of those that you have, have had their dogs/dog with a AA pro that ran their own AA dog?
> 
> Just curious??
> 
> Angie


Yes and yes, it's no big deal.

John


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

John you have some nice dogs. I enjoyed watching them run at Wichita falls


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> Well, he's not doing it with smoke & mirrors. He has talented dogs & they're running really well. Of course, IMO & a boat load of other people's opinions, he's the best. There's plenty to be said about how dogs just do better on his truck than the truck they were own before. Granted the vast amount of time he's been dominate plays into things as well. He's healthy this year. When he's healthy, he's awfully hard to beat.


No doubt he is one of the best if not the best. His Record speaks for itself


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

fowl hunter said:


> Then how long was it? You are more than welcome to correct me. I didn't care to go back and count days but feel free to


It's not like Fowl Hunter (who I just met in person at Wichita Fall two weeks ago) is the only poster who doesn't use his real name on this forum. Maybe you guys know who everybody is by their screen names, but I hardly know anybody's real name, no big deal, though I prefer real names. I don't get the picking on Trevor here, must be some history I'm not aware of.

John


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

John Robinson said:


> It's not like Fowl Hunter (who I just met in person at Wichita Fall two weeks ago) is the only poster who doesn't use his real name on this forum. Maybe you guys know who everybody is by their screen names, but I hardly know anybody's real name, no big deal, though I prefer real names. I don't get the picking on Trevor here, must be some history I'm not aware of.
> 
> John


No worries John. It's only a handful of people and a few of them are the same ones who I guess think they run this place because they have a high post count. I don't let it bother me. I get pm from others telling me just to ignore them and they have always been this way but I don't just cower and let someone get to me. You will never have a forum where everyone gets along.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> It's only a handful of people and a few of them are the same ones who I guess think they run this place because they have a high post count. .


FYI. I think Chris does run this place.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

ErinsEdge said:


> FYI. I think Chris does run this place.


Wasn't talking about him. Don't see him continually posting worthless crap on others threads.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

I think EVERYone knows who runs this place. Didn't think I had to say not including him. I will be more specific from now on.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

John Robinson said:


> Yes and yes, it's no big deal.
> 
> John


Interesting... I know I would have a hard time with it. Especially when chasing points or trying to get my dog qualified for the national. If my pro's dog should happen to consistently place over my dog by a placement I'd be very upset.

What am I paying him/her for?? It's hard enough to beat the other clients and the field much less the guy you've hired to get your dog to the top.

It's a huge conflict of interest from a professional stand point in my mind.

Call me old fashioned and yes I did have an all age dog that titled and did qualify for a national.

Angie


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Angie B said:


> It goes that way sometimes...
> 
> FWIW I wouldn't put a dog with an AA pro that was running his personal dogs. It's a conflict of interest if you ask me.
> 
> Angie


Angie,

come on now, Mike, Ray and Pat were running a dog last summer where they were listed as the owners. You wouldn't put a dog on that truck, one of thee best in this game, cuz of that, really?


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

fowl hunter said:


> Wasn't talking about him. Don't see him continually posting worthless crap on others threads.


You're right. Start a million of your own threads to post your worthless eh em on.

Welcome to the family, darling. But please, for the love of gawd, stop posting pictures of yourself.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Wade said:


> Angie,
> 
> come on now, Mike, Ray and Pat were running a dog last summer where they were listed as the owners. You wouldn't put a dog on that truck, one of thee best in this game, cuz of that, really?


No,,, not if they were listed on EE as being an owner. More like if they really were the owner.

BTW,,, the best is pretty subjective.

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> You're right. Start a million of your own threads to post your worthless eh em on.
> 
> Welcome to the family, darling. But please, for the love of gawd, stop posting pictures of yourself.


Touche...  Nice change up!!!

Angie


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## davewolfe (Mar 22, 2010)

Yes and yes, I don't care if a pro wants to run his own dog in a AA stake. What I do have a problem with is when a pro puts his name on his clients dogs so they can run the dog in a O/H qual at a hunt test.

Just my opinion, this is a game of many unwritten rules. How you think is your own ethics. What you do is what other people will Judge your charter.


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## smillerdvm (Jun 3, 2006)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> He's not a noob. He's been here since 2004. He's more like a slow learner, or "special" or something or other....
> 
> /Paul


Post of the month


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

smillerdvm said:


> Post of the month


That was pretty funny!!

Angie


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Angie B said:


> No,,, not if they were listed on EE as being an owner. More like if they really were the owner.
> 
> BTW,,, the best is pretty subjective.
> 
> Angie


They were listed on EE and in the catalog. I agree whole heartily that it is subjective. I believe Handjems record speaks for itself however and I do believe, my opinion of course, they are one of the best trucks out there.


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## Brian Cockfield (Jun 4, 2003)

Angie B said:


> No,,, not if they were listed on EE as being an owner. More like if they really were the owner.
> 
> BTW,,, the best is pretty subjective.
> 
> Angie


In all fairness, the dog Ray and Pat were running was a Derby dog that they hunted and campaigned a short while and ended up selling. I would put that dog more in the category that most people don't have a problem with. All Age dog is completely different; I don't necessarily have a problem with it but I'm not in that situation. If I were getting beat consistently by my pro's dog, I would probably develop a problem with it pretty quickly.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

davewolfe said:


> Yes and yes, I don't care if a pro wants to run his own dog in a AA stake. What I do have a problem with is when a pro puts his name on his clients dogs so they can run the dog in a O/H qual at a hunt test.
> 
> Just my opinion, this is a game of many unwritten rules. How you think is your own ethics. What you do is what other people will Judge your charter.


Your example shows the pro exploiting and cheating the system. That's sad and soooo unprofessional.. A pro that has an all age dog on his own truck is cheating his clients in my mind... Why would a AA pro have his own dog on his truck?? Why would he want to compete against his own clients and cast doubt on his intentions???

Not good business... Not good at all....

Angie


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Brian Cockfield said:


> In all fairness, the dog Ray and Pat were running was a Derby dog that they hunted and campaigned a short while and ended up selling. I would put that dog more in the category that most people don't have a problem with. All Age dog is completely different; I don't necessarily have a problem with it but I'm not in that situation. If I were getting beat consistently by my pro's dog, I would probably develop a problem with it pretty quickly.


Ya, I knew that. It wouldn't bother me though. Hell, you would still need to beat the other 10,15-20 dogs on said pro's truck anyway, plus the other 80 dogs in the field. I think 1 dog owned by your pro would not be to relevent in the over all scheme of things.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Brian Cockfield said:


> In all fairness, the dog Ray and Pat were running was a Derby dog that they hunted and campaigned a short while and ended up selling. I would put that dog more in the category that most people don't have a problem with. All Age dog is completely different; I don't necessarily have a problem with it but I'm not in that situation. If I were getting beat consistently by my pro's dog, I would probably develop a problem with it pretty quickly.


I didn't realize they were dabbling in "little dogs" for resale... Man,,, how times have changed..

Angie


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## Webbs515 (Feb 6, 2010)

Angie B said:


> Bingo,,, his own dogs cost him money. It doesn't make good business sense anyway you look at it. Now if it was a derby dog or qualifying dog being trained for resale to someone, (hopefully on their truck) that's another thing. Some young dog pro's do this but they don't do it when they have a full truck of client dogs.
> 
> Angie


I disagree that owning his own dog costs him much money. His clients pay for the food, and medicines. Doesn't take a spot on the truck. That's what crates and other boxes are for. Cost is less for a pro than us am's


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Wade said:


> Ya, I knew that. It wouldn't bother me though. Hell, you would still need to beat the other 10,15-20 dogs on said pro's truck anyway, plus the other 80 dogs in the field. I think 1 dog owned by your pro would not be to relevent in the over all scheme of things.


Are you in the game any longer Wade?? 

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Webbs515 said:


> I disagree that owning his own dog costs him much money. His clients pay for the food, and medicines. Doesn't take a spot on the truck. That's what crates and other boxes are for. Cost is less for a pro than us am's


What?? Are you serious??

Angie


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## Brian Cockfield (Jun 4, 2003)

Angie B said:


> I didn't realize they were dabbling in "little dogs" for resale... Man,,, how times have changed..
> 
> Angie


I don't think it's a common practice, just every now and then maybe.


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

> Never said it was mentioned to me. I said I heard it. And please, have you been to a field trial? The people in the gallery don't seem to care all that often who hears what they are talking about. And one thing about me, I will say ANYTHINg in person that I will say on here, I won't ever hide behind a screen name.
> __________________
> Trap (by FC AFC Tiger Mcbunn x FC Connie)
> Trig ( by 2xNafc 2xCnafc FC Lean Mac)
> ...


Trevor

what nationality is "T"


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## Webbs515 (Feb 6, 2010)

Angie B said:


> What?? Are you serious??
> 
> Angie


Lol. So all equipment, food, meds, trucks, gas, etc is a tax write off. I can't write all the money I spend off. Clients pay for all that and a lot more. What's one more dog for these big pros with a ton of staff. Nothing


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Webbs515 said:


> Lol. So all equipment, food, meds, trucks, gas, etc is a tax write off. I can't write all the money I spend off. Clients pay for all that and a lot more. What's one more dog for these big pros with a ton of staff. Nothing


You sooooo don't get it!! And where are you in the AA scheme of things???

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Brian Cockfield said:


> I don't think it's a common practice, just every now and then maybe.


I'm dumbfounded.... 

Very interesting... 

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Brian Cockfield said:


> I don't think it's a common practice, just every now and then maybe.


Thanks for the heads up Brian and Wade...

Times are tough for everyone...

Angie


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## Webbs515 (Feb 6, 2010)

Angie B said:


> You sooooo don't get it!! And where are you in the AA scheme of things???
> 
> Angie


Lmao. World doesn't revolve around ft. Sry to disappoint you. Then how does only ONE dog break the bank soooooo bad for a pro? Bc it doesnt


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

O.K. first your speechless and now your dumbfounded, in the same thread!
Who are you and what have you done with our Angie?
　
　
.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Pete said:


> Trevor
> 
> what nationality is "T"


It's Czech, )


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> He's not a noob. He's been here since 2004. He's more like a slow learner, or "special" or something or other....
> 
> /Paul


Leave Kevin James alone!


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> It's Czech, )


No,,, It's polish,,, Definitely Polish...

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> O.K. first your speechless and now your dumbfounded, in the same thread!
> Who are you and what have you done with our Angie?
> 
> 
> .



I'm still trying to find her... Could you help a sister out??

This thread has been so old RTF,, in many ways...

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Webbs515 said:


> Lmao. World doesn't revolve around ft. Sry to disappoint you. Then how does only ONE dog break the bank soooooo bad for a pro? Bc it doesnt


You need to hook up with fowl hunter... Yes,, very much so....

Angie


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Angie B said:


> No,,, It's polish,,, Definitely Polish...
> 
> Angie


 
he looks French to me











.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Maybe it's Slovak


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> he looks French to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pure Genius... 

Where's the oxygen????

Angie


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> Maybe it's Slovak


Slow Polock?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Webbs515 said:


> Lmao. World doesn't revolve around ft. Sry to disappoint you. Then how does only ONE dog break the bank soooooo bad for a pro? Bc it doesnt


Sure, the pro can write off the feed, etc....but their own personal dog takes up what would otherwise be a paying spot. So....if the pro has their own dog on the truck for a year at $1000 a month, that's $12,000 in lost income....if that were a client dog instead.

Of course, my opinion may not count, since I'm just a lowly gundog trainer , and even then, I don't run client dogs in hunt tests, with rare exception. If I run a hunt test, it's with my own personal dog, and it's for fun.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

No it's def Czech, playing the increase my post game with everyone else. Regards


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

Playing with your crease? Way too much information...bleh


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> Playing with your crease? Way too much information...bleh


He's playing with what??? Why????

Do I get to pick a vowel??? 

Angie


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

DOG MAGNET said:


> My pro and I have pups from the same litter on his truck. This is my first attempt at field trials and using a pro like this. I have no issues with him having competing dog on truck. Yes, his pup is better, mainly because it was in full time training with him the first 6 months. I have no concerns with a conflict of interest. He wants to win so bad, he doesnt care who on his truck wins, as long as one of them does. If he was able to place both dogs in a derby, I dont think he would care which one did better.


I will also say that his dogs are the last to run, get the least amount of training time daily and when he gets really busy, sometimes go a month without being trained because his clients dogs come first.

And, I'm pretty confident that if he finished 1st and 2nd he'd want the client dog to finish 1st. 

.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> Playing with your crease? Way too much information...bleh


Point proven..


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## DSMITH1651 (Feb 23, 2008)

I guess it boils down to how much you trust your pro to give your dog the training it deserves. if you cant trust him to do that then why dose he have your dog? No different then if he has a dog that is doing better then all the others.
Duane


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Rick_C said:


> I will also say that his dogs are the last to run, get the least amount of training time daily and when he gets really busy, sometimes go a month without being trained because his clients dogs come first.
> 
> And, I'm pretty confident that if he finished 1st and 2nd he'd want the client dog to finish 1st.
> 
> .


He has these dogs why??

Angie


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## Vinny Dalena (May 17, 2011)

BonMallari said:


> More power to them if they can do it.....they still have to pay the bills, and deep pocket Client A and Client 1A might mean more to them business wise than their own dog...
> 
> bottom line is a Pro wants to win, look at Danny F. he has won the last four trials but not with the same dog...lots of happy owners there


 Job security!


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Are there a lot of top caliber dogs out there? Is that why many pros maybe don't show or win d/t lack of quality dogs?? Or am I off base??? Some dogs I see running I wonder????
I believe pros are making a living just like any other job and can basically run their business how they feel. You as the receiver of a business service just have to be selective and like that pro's terms?IMO


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

There are only two situations in where I have seen a pro run his own dog; one was a new amateur turned into pro who still had his own dog from his amateur days; and two is the previous mentioned situation, where a pro buys a pup as an investment to advance the dog, demonstrate its quality by placing in trials, then sell to someone who will keep training with that pro. The latter case usually involves a pro with some room on his truck, and the income from selling the dog is negligable compared to the long term cash flow of having a happy client's dog on his truck for the life of that dog.

As for Angie's concern about conflict of interest, I don't see it that way. I realize that I am competing against every other all age dog on my pro's truck, as well as all the other all age dogs, and I am confident that my pro has the integrity to work as hard as possible to succeed with each dog equally, sometimes it's my dog, sometimes somebody else's, very occasionally his own, it just depends on the dogs work that day.

John


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## russell.jason2 (Mar 13, 2011)

I am extremely new to this game, I running my first qual very soon and I am as green as grass. I go to this site to see many different peoples opinion and maybe pic up some pointers. I was warned by a few people while this site can have good input things often become, well, less about dogs and more about personal attacks...and this thread demonstrates this. I pay attention to the folks I have heard of through the 2 pro's I work with and very close friend of mine who visit's this site. thanks to the folks who keep it informative and seem to welcome the new folks to the field trial game. As for this thread I have spend a significant amount of time with a pro who owns his own dog and I can assure every dog on his truck got the same amount of training and attention...


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

russell.jason2 said:


> I was warned by a few people while this site can have good input things often become, well, less about dogs and more about personal attacks...and this thread demonstrates this. I pay attention to the folks I have heard of through the 2 pro's I work with and very close friend of mine who visit's this site. thanks to the folks who keep it informative and seem to welcome the new folks to the field trial game. As for this thread I have spend a significant amount of time with a pro who owns his own dog and I can assure every dog on his truck got the same amount of training and attention...


The personal attacks do get tiring.
Welcome and good luck with your dog

Ted


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## russell.jason2 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ted Shih said:


> The personal attacks do get tiring.
> Welcome and good luck with your dog
> 
> Ted


Thanks Ted, my pup just turned two and I am extremely nervous about running my first qual. I have trained her myself with the exception of a couple of months I had to put her with a pro because of my job.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

I always think that a HT pro might have a better time on the way home calling all his clients with good news vs. a FT pro having to make a bunch of calls to clients with bad news and just a few with good news. That is the nature of the games and nobody probably cares if a HT pro runs their own dogs.


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## Chad G (Oct 17, 2008)

kzunell said:


> I always think that a HT pro might have a better time on the way home calling all his clients with good news vs. a FT pro having to make a bunch of calls to clients with bad news and just a few with good news. That is the nature of the games and nobody probably cares if a HT pro runs their own dogs.


Now days it's a mass text message.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

With rtf alot of people already know how there dogs have done before the pros even get a chance to call.


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

russell.jason2 said:


> I am extremely new to this game, I running my first qual very soon and I am as green as grass. I go to this site to see many different peoples opinion and maybe pic up some pointers. I was warned by a few people while this site can have good input things often become, well, less about dogs and more about personal attacks...and this thread demonstrates this. I pay attention to the folks I have heard of through the 2 pro's I work with and very close friend of mine who visit's this site. thanks to the folks who keep it informative and seem to welcome the new folks to the field trial game. As for this thread I have spend a significant amount of time with a pro who owns his own dog and I can assure every dog on his truck got the same amount of training and attention...


As Ted said it does get tiring. Other than that this thread has been interesting.


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## Brian Cockfield (Jun 4, 2003)

Chad G said:


> Now days it's a mass text message.


To me a text message is like going back in time to the telegraph. I'm not sure when or how the whole text message craze got started but I hate it. I have no problem with someone sending me a quick note but what I do hate is trying to carry on a conversation through texting. I also absolutely refuse to answer a text while I'm driving. Ok rant off.


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## russell.jason2 (Mar 13, 2011)

Jim Danis said:


> As Ted said it does get tiring. Other than that this thread has been interesting.


It has been very interesting...Got a little frustrated when I looked at the thread about running under certain judges, should have posted my comment to that one...all in all I enjoy the insight


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Brian Cockfield said:


> To me a text message is like going back in time to the telegraph. I'm not sure when or how the whole text message craze got started but I hate it. I have no problem with someone sending me a quick note but what I do hate is trying to carry on a conversation through texting. I also absolutely refuse to answer a text while I'm driving. Ok rant off.


X2,,,,

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Chad G said:


> Now days it's a mass text message.


Yupper!! Works for me. Updates and final results,,, quick and easy.

Angie


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> This is inaccurate.


 
slap.......


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> This is not accurate.


Slap again.......hard to keep the stories straight when you have too many


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> slap.......


I'm thinking he didn't get that message at all- like it went right over his head-not like it deals with credibility or anything like that-like we won't remember?


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

This place is getting fun again.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

ErinsEdge said:


> I'm thinking he didn't get that message at all- like it went right over his head-not like it deals with credibility or anything like that-like we won't remember?


Yeah because I need you or a few others who's only claim is they have high post on rtf to feel credible? Ummm NOT. I will keep doing what I'm doing, for all the PM's I get( just had to clean inbox out again) from people who are glad I don't just cower to the few resident "bullies". And that's not a lie, passed a few of them on to Chris


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> Yeah because I need you or a few others who's only claim is they have high post on rtf to feel credible? Ummm NOT. I will keep doing what I'm doing, for all the PM's I get( just had to clean inbox out again) from people who are glad I don't just cower to the few resident "bullies". And that's not a lie, passed a few of them on to Chris


It is likely that some of those folks expected a greater deal of confidentiality.

I'm sending you one final PM note.

Chris


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

fowl hunter said:


> Yeah because I need you or a few others who's only claim is they have high post on rtf to feel credible? Ummm NOT. I will keep doing what I'm doing, for all the PM's I get( just had to clean inbox out again) from people who are glad I don't just cower to the few resident "bullies". And that's not a lie, passed a few of them on to Chris


Trevor. Dude. Chris has shown his he is not in support of your posting and he is out of the country.

Who are you trying to be? You have more than a messed up back.


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## Deleted On Request (Jan 28, 2011)

kzunell said:


> I always think that a HT pro might have a better time on the way home calling all his clients with good news vs. a FT pro having to make a bunch of calls to clients with bad news and just a few with good news. That is the nature of the games and nobody probably cares if a HT pro runs their own dogs.


That's what I was thinking, too. HT pro is less likely to have conflicts of interest by having his or her own dog on a truck; perceived (more likely) or real (less likely) given human nature...


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> Trevor. Dude. Chris has shown his he is not in support of your posting and he is out of the country.
> 
> Who are you trying to be? You have more than a messed up back.


I don't ever TRY to be anything. I say how I feel. Melanie you seem to be the one obsessed, bringing me up on FB and making worthless post in every thread I start.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> It is likely that some of those folks expected a greater deal of confidentiality.
> 
> I'm sending you one final PM note.
> 
> Chris


I told them I was sending to u and one of them asked not to show u there name. Didn't just send them to u blindly.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

I am officially stupider....Is that a word?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

John Robinson said:


> It's not like Fowl Hunter (who I just met in person at Wichita Fall two weeks ago) is the only poster who doesn't use his real name on this forum. Maybe you guys know who everybody is by their screen names, but I hardly know anybody's real name, no big deal, though I prefer real names. *I don't get the picking on Trevor here, must be some history I'm not aware of*.
> 
> John


this is actually a legitimate question that should not have been skipped over.
There is a bit of history, a wee bit.
First understand one of the most biggest sins we can committee here is one person posting under multiple identities.
The history as I observed it is. Fowl hunter started posting in '04. Stopped posting for a couple years. Started posting again
as Kevin James. But something was off about Kevin James as the things he typed were not like the standard newbie stuff.
And the questions he asked and the people he referenced led many of us to think he had been here in the past.
Personally I had asked him his name in a post of Kevin James and he had told me that was his name. And the crux of it John,
was he didn't come clean on his own. He was kinda ousted by his own posts and statements. Kinda tripped up by folk that read every word and pay attention. That is when site administrators became involved and Kevin James and Fowl Hunter became one. But only a handful actually knew Kevin was Trevor, as he has added
to his sig line now. I found out his name on accident on facebook on Jeff Lusk's page because I had sold him some
Pure Vermont Maple Syrup and he posted a photo of the jars and the way facebook works a friend of a friend of a friend, ya know.
And I see a photo and send the feller a facebook PM saying "Fowl hunter is that you?" That's how I found out.
　
So..... when a person who goes through all that types 
　



fowl hunter said:


> ...... And one thing about me, I will say ANYTHINg in person that I will say on here, I won't ever hide behind a screen name.


well, you know some of us just will not let that pass.
It is why I gave the "Come on Man!"
That is why some of us may have, in a fun loving good natured way. poked KevinfowljameshunterTrevor. Just a bit.
　
This post is by Ken Bora
my RTF screen name is Ken Bora
my Momma calls me . . . . . . 
Kenneth
　
.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> I am officially stupider....Is that a word?


no, it's not. your dumbfounded;-)


.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> no, it's not. your dumbfounded;-)
> 
> 
> .


ya, that too...


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Ken I was already fowl hunter. Before you ever sent me a friends request on FB. I never remember getting a message from you asking me if that was my name. If so feel free to post it here bcause I truly don't remember. I didn't post under multiple names. I added a new acct bcause I didn't know my old user name and password. Soooo I added a new one. We can keep all this going on and on and on if ya want.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

fowl hunter said:


> Ken I was already fowl hunter. Before you ever sent me a friends request on FB. I never remember getting a message from you asking me if that was my name. If so feel free to post it here bcause I truly don't remember. I didn't post under multiple names. I added a new acct bcause I didn't know my old user name and password. Soooo I added a new one. We can keep all this going on and on and on if ya want.


your right, read what I typed. You were Fowl Hunter way back.
As for the face book thing go to your own messages
Feb 23 I typed "Hello Fowlhunter"
you responded "Hello Mr. Bora"
and I typed, as I posted above..." I knew it, see I was selling some
Pure Vermont Maple Syrup to Jeff Lusk and I scent him a message 
needing his phone number for the fed ex form. So there you are in his 
friends list and you know how facebook works 
"You have ___ mutual friends." And I said "Thats fowlhunter!" I knew it wuz you!!!"


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

No I mean I was already back fowl hunter and not Kevin when we became friends on FB I thought


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

fowl hunter said:


> No I mean I was already back fowl hunter and not Kevin when we became friends on FB I thought


all I know fur sure is....
your not Paul Blart











.


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

This thread is now being closed as it has gotten quite off-track.

Folks, please stop the personal attacks. If you feel you must continue, take it to PMs.


----------

