# When is it too COLD for water?



## Tommy Wallace (Jun 13, 2008)

I know that a lot of us hunt our dogs in cold water during duck hunts but, when I am training what is too cold? 50, 40 30, we don't get much colder than 30 to 40 during the day around here. So, at what point should I be safe & say not today. Water is my weakest thing right now. 
Still have a lot else I can work on but, just wondering what I can do in the water & be safe.

Also if water is cold should I expect a reaction from her because it is cold?

Tommy


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Its not whether the water is too cold its how long you expose them to it and how you get them wiped down and dry afterward. even if water is your weak point dont risk hypothermia ,if your dog starts tip toeing into the water when it normally hits the water with gusto then you have gone too far. a dog will turn you off or tune you out when it becomes uncomfortable in frigid water


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## wetland_retrievers (Jul 22, 2005)

Running marks is one thing. Short runs in cold water are fine as long as you can get them dried off quickly.
Now if you are running repeated drills: tune ups, cheating singles, swimby and etc.. I would refrain and find warmer water. You will create more issues with water attitude in cold water. Remember we want them running as strong in water as on land. So wait for a more successful environment for teaching in the water.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

I don't train in water under 50 deg.

WRL


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## Tommy Wallace (Jun 13, 2008)

wetland_retrievers said:


> Running marks is one thing. Short runs in cold water are fine as long as you can get them dried off quickly.
> Now if you are running repeated drills: tune ups, cheating singles, swimby and etc.. I would refrain and find warmer water. You will create more issues with water attitude in cold water. Remember we want them running as strong in water as on land. So wait for a more successful environment for teaching in the water.


So at what temp would you be comfortable running your dog in water. This past week I put her in the water it was around 60. No problems but, the water felt colder than 60. 
I'm just trying to get an idea of what is a safe outside temp to be able to do some water work with her, Should I go as far as to dry between entries?

OK, it's 52 outside right now. Is this ok? If it was 35 or 40 would you put them in? I really don't know what a water dog is ok with.

Tommy


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Depends a lot on the dog also. We have 3 labs, one older lab with very heavy coat, lots of down undercoat. He has no problem with cold at all. He hunts in water where he is breaking ice, and there are ice chunks floating down the river from a glacier 10 miles upriver. We have another with much lighter coat, not much in the way of a downy undercoat. If we swim him in water under 50f (guess only) he will get cold tail and be sore for a week without much movement of his tail. He still loves the initial swim, but the reprocussions last a while. Our 3rd dog has a light coat also, and is only a year, we have not had her in cold water. The air temp does not make as much difference as the water temp unless you are not able to put him in a protected environment and towelled off after training. Our older dog (#1) actually chooses to sit in tidal water even when there is ice in it, as the water rises from several inches to a foot deep, he also will go out of his warm kennel and lay down and sleep on the snow, rather then inside. Bud


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

has anyone tried one of those Sham Wow towels to dry their dogs off...I saw them at costco and thought about picking a pack of them up and keeping them in the truck


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Nikki Malarky said:


> So at what temp would you be comfortable running your dog in water. This past week I put her in the water it was around 60. No problems but, the water felt colder than 60.
> I'm just trying to get an idea of what is a safe outside temp to be able to do some water work with her, Should I go as far as to dry between entries?
> 
> OK, it's 52 outside right now. Is this ok? If it was 35 or 40 would you put them in? I really don't know what a water dog is ok with.
> ...


What's the water temp? That is the temp that matters.

WRL


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

akblackdawg said:


> Depends a lot on the dog also. We have 3 labs, one older lab with very heavy coat, lots of down undercoat. He has no problem with cold at all. He hunts in water where he is breaking ice, and there are ice chunks floating down the river from a glacier 10 miles upriver. We have another with much lighter coat, not much in the way of a downy undercoat. If we swim him in water under 50f (guess only) he will get cold tail and be sore for a week without much movement of his tail. He still loves the initial swim, but the reprocussions last a while. Our 3rd dog has a light coat also, and is only a year, we have not had her in cold water. The air temp does not make as much difference as the water temp unless you are not able to put him in a protected environment and towelled off after training. Our older dog (#1) actually chooses to sit in tidal water even when there is ice in it, as the water rises from several inches to a foot deep, he also will go out of his warm kennel and lay down and sleep on the snow, rather then inside. Bud


Hunting is different than training.

I've hunted dogs in sub-zero temps with them having to get in and out of water. 

WRL


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## Tommy Wallace (Jun 13, 2008)

Really wierd that we have them in extreme temps to make the hunt. Snow for the geese. I had mine in some really cold temps last year duck hunting. 
What makes it different when training?


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

BonMallari said:


> has anyone tried one of those Sham Wow towels to dry their dogs off...I saw them at costco and thought about picking a pack of them up and keeping them in the truck


Alot of people in our club have them and love them. I have another brand and dont think it is as good. We use them alot especially in the summer to dry the dogs off so they dont over heat.


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

Nikki Malarky said:


> Really wierd that we have them in extreme temps to make the hunt. Snow for the geese. I had mine in some really cold temps last year duck hunting.
> What makes it different when training?


I think you dont want to ruin their attitude about cold water in training


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

In training if the water temp is below 50 I'll vest them. I don't train long swims when the water temps get below 45 or so. 

I'll hit corners (20-30 yard swims) as long as there isn't much ice on the edges but this is with a long land run before and after and not with a young dog just learning water basics. Maybe a long land blind after the marking setup. I want them panting and their blood pumping after a cold water swim in training.

A few years a go I did a tune up drill and it started snowing. The drill took a total of about 15 minutes, the snow got so thick I couldn't see my dog over 100 yards away. He knew where the end of the blinds were and I could see him in the water so I continued. Air temp was ~35 and the water temp was 45.


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## Tommy Wallace (Jun 13, 2008)

A lot of the trials are held when the weather is cold also. Makes it hard. Got land looking real good. Just need to get in some water work.


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## Kris Hunt (Feb 25, 2005)

I don't do a lot of big swims once the daytime temps start to drop before 50 and if it icy cold (say 30-40) I would think twice. But I do some short swims, some water reentries, decheating, stuff like that. If it isn't getting that cold during the day and evening, I would thing you'd be fine, but let the dog do the talking too.

Hunting is completely different. I use vests for one and there aren't a lot of huge swims. And I try to keep an Absorber handy to try off the parts that aren't under the vest.

Kris


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

Just got back from training. i took a thermometer and the pond was 50 degrees. I checked right at shore line. Maybe its warmer away from shore.
I wouldnt think it was that could since we havnt had many days latley that have been that cold. We did just have a few nights in the past few days that were in the upper 30s. Pond was probably about 2 acres in size.
Today it was 48 degrees for the high.
Dogs didnt seemed to mind hitting the water, but were chattering teeth later in their crates.
I didnt have a vest on them.
I dont think they have a winter coat yet either. One dog has always had a thin coat.


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

Also makes me wonder how they handle the cold when hunting and I live in Texas not Alaska


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## Ken Newcomb (Apr 18, 2003)

My Dancer today did a triple on greenheads while set-up next to the ice line on a river. She did great and came bak wanting more. Northern dogs love the cold water, it means the mallards are here.


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Howard's post reminded me about vests, yes I recomend vest when it is cold out. I would not swim a young dog, younger then a year usually, in cold water. wait until mid May up here and the shallow ponds are warming up, and only til Sept up here, you don't want them to learn that water is uncomfortable for them, it needs to be fun. Lee I also don't see a lot of difference in training and hunting. Not being the all out everyday trainer, I don't mind at all not doing much water work when it gets cold out, but that is for my comfort as much (or more) then the dogs. When it comes to hunting, I don't mind the cold and the dog had better get used to it:razz:. 

Serrously, these dogs are a lot tougher then people give them credit for when it comes to handling cold weather. If you are south of the Mason-Dixon line, I don't think the water gets too cold for them to worry about except maybe pups. If there is not ice on it, or around the edges, the dogs should handle it easily and have fun. The only difference would be that some of the warm water dogs in the south may need to get used to it. Bud


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

akblackdawg said:


> Lee I also don't see a lot of difference in training and hunting.


Well, there is a great deal of difference. The dogs are every bit as excited when hunting as the human is for the most part. When, whether its marks or blinds, it can turn into a repetitious situation for corrections during training.

Think about it, the dog is in water. The water is cold. It gets corrections and repeatedly sent into cold water. That is not a recipe for a happy water attitude.

WRL


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## Devlin (Jan 19, 2006)

We don't have a cold water problem down here, but my Sadie can hunt/retrieve for hours in Montana ponds where she's breaking ice to get to "her" bird. As has been said, hunting is a lot different from training, and I put a 5mm vest on her for cold water hunting. To respond to Bon...



BonMallari said:


> has anyone tried one of those Sham Wow towels to dry their dogs off...I saw them at costco and thought about picking a pack of them up and keeping them in the truck


I carry a small (18" x 24") camo-covered waterproof pad for Sadie to sit on in the blind (it keeps her off the ice/snow/mud), and I also carry 2 or 3 microfiber towels in my blind bag to wipe her down with after every retrieve.

All that may be considered "babying" the dog, but remember: where we live, most people think it's cold as hell and you need a parka when the temp gets way down down to 45. :roll: Just sayin': living in and being acclimated to the cold is one thing, but I firmly believe taking a warm-environment dog waterfowling into -5 to +15 degree air and 35 degree water deserves a little extra protection for the pup!


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## dogguy438 (Nov 24, 2009)

Brad said it right, you don't want to ruin their attitude in cold water training.Dogs can handle the cold water esp. when adrenaline is pumping to get a shot bird. Training is totaly different.Air temp in the 50s and water temp of 50 is usually fine.


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## Dan Boerboon (May 30, 2009)

I started and completed swim by with my 9 Month old in early November when we had air temps in the upper 50s low 60s. As it had been a cold Oct. the water temp was probably less than 50. She is a fast learner it only took 6 - 8 bumpers a day and she was doing prefectly the entire training was completed in a week. Had it taken longer, either daily 10 bumpers or more or the air temp dropped I would have stopped the training and waited until spring. She was still eager to hit the water. Training is repitition and longer stays in the water at a time. Hunting as least how it went for me this year get in the water pick up a bird cmome back wait, wait, wait, go home. Not many birds.
As it has been posted the differance in training and hunting is the excitement. Drills are drills and birds are birds. My old hunting dog as soon as we hit the lake he gets in the water no matter how cold.


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

WRL said:


> I don't train in water under 50 deg.
> 
> WRL


the colder the shorter. its good to train all year long in water. just as water temp drops start cutting corners as in cheaters


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

WRL said:


> Well, there is a great deal of difference. The dogs are every bit as excited when hunting as the human is for the most part. When, whether its marks or blinds, it can turn into a repetitious situation for corrections during training.
> 
> Think about it, the dog is in water. The water is cold. It gets corrections and repeatedly sent into cold water. That is not a recipe for a happy water attitude.
> 
> WRL


keep the water entries to the level of the mutt and corrections to a bare minimum spelled wrong two beers dead bird way out back


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> its good to train all year long in water


But Pyzon, this time of year I have to use a chain saw to cut the top off the water to get to the part they can swim in.


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

Howard N said:


> But Pyzon, this time of year I have to use a chain saw to cut the top off the water to get to the part they can swim in.


well if tou need a chain saw cut and ship'em. lol
you know what i mean just use your head when is it to cold to train in cold water it depend how much bottem does the mutt have and how well did you do his basics 35 to cold for me probally 40 thrity five with hoot and holler john lol


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## Tommy Wallace (Jun 13, 2008)

I have a vest & have introduced her to it with no problems. I do have a question about the vest.
If she is wearing the vest & does a mark & water gets in the vest, if she is not able to shake the water off of her that is under the vest is this bad?

Is the vest a good idea in cold water? in 40 to 50 degrees water


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Nikki Malarky said:


> I have a vest & have introduced her to it with no problems. I do have a question about the vest.
> If she is wearing the vest & does a mark & water gets in the vest, if she is not able to shake the water off of her that is under the vest is this bad?
> 
> Is the vest a good idea in cold water? in 40 to 50 degrees water


A *well fitting vest *is a good idea in cold water., it acts on the same principle of a thin layer of captured water for radiant heat loss reduction as a wetsuit in cold water does for people.

If the vest does not properly fit the dog it is useless! No it is more than that, it is dangerous, since it gives one a false sense of security and could cause one to consider a dangerously long duration of exposure to the cold water for the dog.

Scroll to the bottom of the page and note the snug fit of a well sized conventional vest/suit.
http://www.all-about-great-danes.com/dog-wetsuit.html

The custom ones I have are from an outfit from Canada that is no longer manufacturing them, also cover half of the rear legs with a hole cut out for the tail.

john


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Nikki Malarky said:


> Really wierd that we have them in extreme temps to make the hunt. Snow for the geese. I had mine in some really cold temps last year duck hunting.
> What makes it different when training?


Last day of duck season, your setting decoys amongst chunks of ice left from the hole you and your buddies just stomped out. Three of you with a six bird limit, well that is 18 ducks your dog will be able to retrieve this morning. Can you do 3x6=18 while standing amongst chunks of ice? Of course you can. Did you learn to do 3x6 while standing in ice water?????

.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> Last day of duck season, your setting decoys amongst chunks of ice left from the hole you and your buddies just stomped out. Three of you with a six bird limit, well that is 18 ducks your dog will be able to retrieve this morning. Can you do 3x6=18 while standing amongst chunks of ice? Of course you can. Did you learn to do 3x6 while standing in ice water?????
> 
> .


Why did you stomp a hole in some perfectly good ice(?), when you could have easly "made " your hole with a roll of clear plastic;-)

john


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

john fallon said:


> Why did you stomp a hole in some perfectly good ice(?), when you could have easly "made " your hole with a roll of clear plastic;-)
> 
> john


decoys work better when they bob and turn with the breeze.
ducks look for open water
if you don't bust it open the dogs are going to fall through anyway
keeps the ice fishermen away
gives you a reason to have your waders on


you don't hunt late season ice water much do you John?


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

The water is too cold when: there is ice, I need to wear gloves or when I'm not willing to pet a wet dog for a good job.

IMHO conditioning is the key to tolerating cold water a dog needs to have developed a good coat and frequently experience water as the temperature changes. It is not fair to have a dog jump into 40* water when it has last swam in 70* and been living in a 65*house.

JMO

Tim


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Howard N said:


> But Pyzon, this time of year I have to use a chain saw to cut the top off the water to get to the part they can swim in.


Howard, your dogs are so good, they literally walk on water. Bud


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

I think the key is in a hunting situation the dog wants to go in. In a training situation teaching something the dog may need to be "made" to go in. 

Cold water to an acclimated dog is OK for hunting, but depending on what you're training on the same temperature or even warmer might be too cold.

John Lash


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

akblackdawg said:


> Howard, your dogs are so good, they literally walk on water. Bud


They must be related to Chuck Norris.


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## Waterdogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Man if you would just teach them to run around you wouldn't have to worry about it. I am always way on the safe side to a fault I think but I do deal with quit a few young dogs. My young dog did some nice water/ice chunks in the water blinds and he did pretty well but I made it fun for him. Ran him around the pond to keep warm he has a good vest and the water was safe. Their a lot to be said for common sense but I guess it is not so common these days.


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## Leslie B (Jul 3, 2009)

akblackdawg said:


> Howard, your dogs are so good, they literally walk on water. Bud


Is this how it is done???


http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3337&stc=1&d=1260146279


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Leslie B said:


> Is this how it is done???
> 
> 
> http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3337&stc=1&d=1260146279


You got it!!! Your dog doesn't care how cold the water is, it will get the bird. Bud


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## Virgil (Nov 28, 2007)

if there is still water flowing, it's not too cold.










My yellow female coming back from a retrieve. Her maybe 10th of the morning.









I wouldn't take a dog from a southern state and throw them into those conditions, but if the dog is out in them consistently, they adjust to it better than we do.


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Pic in last post reminded me of something else to be concerned about. In flowing water with ice, be extreamly carful. Dog does not know that he can be sucked under the ice and lost. Bud


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

There's a big difference between hunting and occasional water marks and drill work designed to keep the dog in the water. I think it's best to be careful with young dogs and drill work in water when the water is cold, especially when the air's also cold. Marks, yes; blinds and things like swim by, no. Someone on here said once, and this was about all-age dogs I believe, that they only have but so many big water blinds in them. I think that's a good philosophy to keep in mind for winter training when the water is cold.

I have a 22 mos. CBR female that was ready for swim by this fall, but she's got a thin coat so we'll just work on the land concepts til it warms up in spring. She does stop on a whistle and has lots of go so in training this fall if she tried to run around water I just stopped her or called her back. Right now she loves water and often goes in the ponds on our farm on her own even when it's cold, but considering she was badly scared and nearly drowned in cold water when she was only 10 weeks, didn't learn to swim properly til she was about 8 mos. old, I'm taking no chances on creating a sour water attitude.

The original poster asked about a dog that's tentative in water and needs work; I would avoid cold water as it might be counter productive, especially if the dog's under 2.


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

One of the scariest moments of my life-almost lost Ruckus to ice/drowning. He fell through ice and struggled back to shore 60 yards out. Went for a winter walk with the dogs, in a split second as I walked up the back of the dam he took off and ran out on the ice. It was thick, pond completely froze over, but the weather the days before made it soft-very dangerous stuff. He struggled in, having to break that stuff in the freezing water, 20+ feet of depth. He was about 25 feet out from shore and losing strenght, resting his head on the ice and trying to stay above water. I can't tell you what an awful sight that was. No one to help us, no cell phone. I was stripping out of my clothes when Ryder jumped out toward him breaking a large section of ice, Ryder broke the remaining ice out to him and Ruck followed that path back in, hardly able to walk once he hit shore. He rested for awhile shook off and tottered on up to the house. God love Ryder, he thought it was a game, he often jumps out at Ruck when they are swimming. I lost 10 years off my life that day.


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