# New training videos from Britain - Looks neat.



## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

This guy is a trainer and lab breeder as well as a field trial judge. He has many dogs who are field trial champions and trial winners. He travels all over Europe judging field trials and holding seminars.

http://vimeo.com/53659433


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## yellow machine (Dec 7, 2005)

looks like some good viewing. Has anyone ordered a set and watched it?


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## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

I always think that with all the practice those British dogs get jumping and climbing fences, they must be a little trickier to keep kenneled


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## awclark (Oct 20, 2007)

Love the music, love the scenery, and I love their working dogs.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Jennifer Loved the scenery (so beautiful) and loved what the dogs did. They probably are very fit and agile. No collars on. Certainly different than our DVD's setup. Of course they are for Gundogs! Would be interested to know if Colonel Blimp knows of this fellow and what his comments would be about his achievements??
Thanks for sharing.


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## Kirk Keene (Jul 20, 2009)

Ah, Keith Mathews of Copperbirch Labradors. I own a pup sired by FTCH Copperbirch Paddy (bred by Keith). Looks like it's been well-produced, based on the trailer. Maybe time to put this on the Christmas list!


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## Erik Nilsson (Jan 16, 2011)

Looks like a lot of fun! Im always impressed with the work of these trained gundogs do and the areas they run in are so beautiful


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

Looks like it would be interesting. Maybe I'm missing something but couldn't find ordering info or price.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

Hard to find out how to get these videos when you live over here. We have a guy flying 2 labs and a springer over from Ireland this week, trying to find a way to get him to pick up a few copies and bring them over.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Right now you can just "pre-order" them. Not sure when they are actually ready. I'll try and find out. You can order them from the Dog and Country web site, which I'll find the link for. The price is 99 British Pounds which I think is about $159 for the set.

Here's the link for ordering: http://www.dogandcountry.tv/list.php?mid=252


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Jennifer Henion said:


> This guy is a trainer and lab breeder as well as a field trial judge. He has many dogs who are field trial champions and trial winners. He travels all over Europe judging field trials and holding seminars.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/53659433


Thanks Jennifer. I think that it looks really interesting. Maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Jennifer Loved the scenery (so beautiful) and loved what the dogs did. They probably are very fit and agile. No collars on. Certainly different than our DVD's setup. Of course they are for Gundogs! Would be interested to know if Colonel Blimp knows of this fellow and what his comments would be about his achievements??
> Thanks for sharing.


I was wondering if Ye Olde Blimp had any comments on him or the video, too.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey, who ya callin' _olde_?

Eug is just seasoned.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Howard N said:


> Hey, who ya callin' _olde_?
> 
> Eug is just seasoned.


For my taste, the more seasoned the better!


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## Dick Sheldon (Jul 14, 2006)

Erin Lynes said:


> I always think that with all the practice those British dogs get jumping and climbing fences, they must be a little trickier to keep kenneled


I taught mine to jump the high hurdles at the local track. BIG mistake. Only a 6 foot high kennel will keep in now


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

I'm afraid I don't know of Keith Mathews or Copperbirch Labradors. 

The adult sires (2) on his website are well enough bred and have very good hip scores, but neither has ever won a Trial or been made up to Field Trial Champion. The pedigrees show a strong representation of Irish dogs as you'd expect, plus some well regarded names from the rest of the UK. One sidelight might be the dog mentioned by Kirk; the full title should read "Copperbirch Paddy of Leadburn". This implies that the Leadburn kennel bought the pup and made it up to FTCh. If Billy Steele sees Copperbirch as having that sort of potential there isn't much too wrong.

I'm always griping on about the modern non collar method being poorly represented in the literature; if the DVDs go some way towards rectifying that, well and good. However £100 seems a biggish price to pay for something unreviewed or having a few trailer clips. 
*
Jennifer* I'm confused as to wether you admire "seasoned" men for their savoir faire and experience, or because they are too old and knackered to deploy either and thus won't give a girl any bother!

Eug


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## Kirk Keene (Jul 20, 2009)

Eug, I see Paddy made his way back into the IGL this year. Have you ever had the opportunity to see him run?


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

Kirk,

I'm not really in to Trialling these days so I don't go out of my way to attend them, other than a few local efforts. So regretfully .. 

Eug


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Just sent a message to Keith Mathews, the guy in the video and asked about his Field Trial credentials. Will let you know what he says. 

Eug: Been a fan of older men since way back, for too many reasons to list!


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, here is a snippet from Keith Mathews resume:

Trainer of Field Trial Champions
In 2008 Keith won the most prestigious title on the Irish Field Trial calendar the “Irish Kennel Clubs Retriever of the Year title” and his FTCH bitch was declared “National Supreme Champion”.
Keith attributes his success to his ability to use his dog behavioural background and understanding of the canine mind to train his Labradors to Field Champion standard.
He is totally opposed to the traditional methods of gundog breaking and uses only positive training methods and his unique “Calmness Leads to Reward” dog training and behaviour method which he applies to his gundog training.
As an international Field trial judge, Keith has judged, competed and lectured and held workshops on gundog training and pet dog behaviour all over the world. He works his gundog’s fulltime on a variety of different terrains throughout the hunting season in Ireland.
Breeder of Champions 
As a breeder, Keith’s Copperbirch Labrador line is one of the most sought after Irish working lines in the world and has been the Top Producing Labrador Kennel in Ireland for the last decade.
At the time of printing , Keith has bred The Irish Retriever of the Year. The three times winner of the Icelandic Championship. The Australian Retriever of the Year, FTCH’s who have been placed in the Irish Championship as well as FTCH’s who have qualified for the IGL British Retriever Championship. He has bred numerous FTCH’s as well as a further 27 dogs who have gained Field Trial awards in several different countries around the world.

And apparently, he has a hit TV show on BBC as the British version of the Dog Whisperer - but he is called the Dog GURU. For what it's worth.

Jen


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

So let's talk about something important. 

Jen, just what do you consider "older"?


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

DarrinGreene said:


> So let's talk about something important.
> 
> Jen, just what do you consider "older"?


hee hee... uhhhh, well, I'm 42, so older than me at this point. 20 years ago, the answer would have been much older than me.


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

And I thought all anybody on this forum cared to talk about was DOGS! I'll bet there are a lot of guys who just got a bit distracted from that subject. Count me among them, even though I think the video would be an interesting view. 

Swack


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm sure my husband will find this very amusing! I hope.


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## Harry Cook (Nov 21, 2012)

*Retriever Training Guru Style*

Hi Jennifer, I was passed this thread by Keith Mathews. I am the Producer/Director of the 4 DVD set on "Retriever Training Guru Style". The production took three years to complete and was filmed in Ireland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. The 4 DVD set concentrates on positive methods of training, where the dogs want and look forward to working, they are not compelled or forced into retrieving. Keith has a very natural style and his dogs are very willing and enthusiastic at what they do best, retrieving. Keith and I will be posting several 'tasters' or 'promos' of the DVD set and everything which is shown is contained in the production. If you have any additional questions please get in touch. Harry


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Jennifer Henion said:


> I'm sure my husband will find this very amusing! I hope.


Hey now... it's just idle curiosity


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

labber said:


> Jennifer
> Im not sure this guy has that many field champions. My friend tells me that the only champion that he has was bought in as a champion and is now 9 years old. He may have bred a few ch but I dont think he has made any up to champion level in the Uk. These DVD sets are often over priced and show dogs that are already trained doing the drills. They dont usually have a section in them for problems and everybody knows things dont go aswell as are shown in the DVD's. This set may be different as _I havent seen them but i doubt it._


Thanks Labber. Sounds like both you and I are going off of incomplete information and need some facts. Maybe Harry Cook would please chime in on this issue?

Although, I did chat with Keith directly over facebook yesterday and I asked him point blank if he had made up and FTCHs and he said yes, then sent me his resume, which I cut and pasted part of into an earlier post. That part of the resume did kind of gloss over detail, but maybe Harry Cook can further enlighten us. Don't think $150 is all that expensive for a complete puppy to adult DVD set. That seems to be the going rate here in the states. Plus, looks like Keith's set is a BIT more attractive scenery than some we have here.

But it's true, would be nice to get some detail on whether he has made up FTCH and how many.


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## Harry Cook (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi Jennifer, I just read your latest post and the one from Labber. It would be interesting to know where Labber get's his information, because he is obviously misinformed, Keith's success on the competition field in Ireland is well documented, as is his reputation as an Internationally renouned canine behaviourist. Keith's remarkable ability to train is demonstrated on the DVDs, step by step as the dogs are trained, the DVD's show problems and how they are fixed.

As the producer/director of the programmes I came to it with an open mind, I watched other DVD's which have been produced, these did indeed use already trained dogs and anyone, even I could make a DVD around that. This DVD set is however very different. At the outset only puppies were trained and their advancement filmed as their training progressed. Keith deliberately chose puppies with 'soft' temperaments, hard going temperaments in order to demonstrate on-screen how to train dogs of all temperaments to the highest standard. No harsh methods were used in the training, no E-collars, no punishment, only Keiths ability to release the dogs natural instinct The reason it took 3 years to make was because the progression from puppy to fully trained gundogs had to happen in 'real-time'. In addition I sought to make it visually engaging, hence the film locations used. I understand that you have ordered the DVD's and I have no doubt that you will find them informative, entertaining and above great value for money. I realise that Keith is not as well known in the USA, but this DVD set will change that. Warmest regards. Harry


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## bobbyb (Jul 31, 2005)

don't mean to cast asperisions, but WHO in the USA sits a dog on his left side and send with his right hand ????

BobbyB
cajun


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## labber (Nov 5, 2012)

Drakeshead kennels are close by me and theyre DVD set is well worth checking out.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Harry Cook said:


> Keith's success on the competition field in Ireland is well documented, as is his reputation as an Internationally renouned canine behaviourist.


Harry, we appreciate your passion and response, however, I think Labber and maybe others are asking about the "documentation". Where is it?

In the US , field trial results, dog performance, owners and handlers, are readily available.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Any chance of a further short demonstration on his training methods? 

That said, I am a DVD victim, and would buy it. Have bought UK "nationals" in the past. Heck a friend recently lent me an UK spaniel national!!!


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

labber said:


> Drakeshead kennels are close by me and theyre DVD set is well worth checking out.


John Halstead is one of the top trainers-trialers in the U.K. I haven't saw any of his video's but am thinking of it.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Isn't the Drakeshead DVD years and years old? At least a decade!


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

Aussie said:


> Isn't the Drakeshead DVD years and years old? At least a decade!


They've been around a while, but I would still like to see em.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

bobbyb said:


> don't mean to cast asperisions, but WHO in the USA sits a dog on his left side and send with his right hand ????
> 
> BobbyB
> cajun


Any technique from any country that improves our retriever training, is worth absorbing. This might mean you have to overlook the differences in the small details, but that effort may be worthwhile if you learn something new about a bigger concept.

Not saying they do it better or necessarily know more than the US experts, I haven't even seen the DVDs, but I'll bet there are things to be learned from anyone who is successful at what they do. Especially if the scenery is REALLY pretty!

Jen


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## Dooley (Feb 1, 2011)

Hi Jen,
James up here in Canada......I have been following the post on the DVD by Keith Matthews, and I must say that some of the comments and criticisms about the trainer and his DVD are really disappointing and sickening, especially comment about dog on left side sent by right hand signal, wow. Don't these guys understand that the field trials originated in Britain long before they were introduced to U.S. and Canada. This post was to help promote a well respected trainer and trialer and his DVD, not to shoot him down and nit-pick like a bunch of old hens.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

James,

I think it's good to ask questions about and really vet any supposed experts putting out a DVD. Especially if you're spending more than $100. I see what you're saying, but can't blame anyone for questioning something different. It's when you get the right answers to the questions when the good stuff happens.


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## Harry Cook (Nov 21, 2012)

Good morning Jen, well at least it's morning here in Ireland. I have read with interest some of the comments on the forum. We have a saying here in Ireland, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating", or in this case, the watching. Watch and marvel as 'The Dog Guru' teaches how he trains his Labradors here in Ireland, without E collars, force, intimidation, or threat, as I said before, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Warmest regards, Harry


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

> don't mean to cast asperisions, but WHO in the USA sits a dog on his left side and send with his right hand ????


Anyone who trained the send out as described in the Wildrose DVD published and widely sold in the US.

There are also other differences in the send out than just hand position.

Eug


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Harry Cook said:


> Good morning Jen, well at least it's morning here in Ireland. I have read with interest some of the comments on the forum. We have a saying here in Ireland, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating", or in this case, the watching. Watch and marvel as 'The Dog Guru' teaches how he trains his Labradors here in Ireland, without E collars, force, intimidation, or threat, as I said before, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Warmest regards, Harry


Happy Thanksgiving, Harry! Now lemme put you right on your mawkish marketing pitch. We 'Mericans - North 'Mericans, including one of your correspondents here who won the 2011 Canadian Amateur - have heard it all before and actually are amused by it. Of course, we'd be much more likely to buy a retriever training DVD made by Mr. Bean or, God rest his soul, Father Ted (with Father Dougal as protege). Thing is, the blarney don't wear none too well on us (or US). So the proof being in the pudding, when it comes to what Scott's asked about "the Dog Guru"'s FT credentials, is in your own peroration (marketing spiel) actually more akin to nailing Jello to a tree. One last thing: My UK intel offers the most d*mning indictment of all apropos a DVD "three years in the making:" "It's too bloody American." Crikey. Alas, s/he was referring to the bombast and razzmatazz on your end - as we say in the States, it's not the trainer, it's the dog. Or director.

Cheers,

MG

PS Hey Eug, how 'bout that Albion! And a big Roll Tide, of course:wink:


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

bobbyb said:


> don't mean to cast asperisions, but WHO in the USA sits a dog on his left side and send with his right hand ????
> 
> BobbyB
> cajun


I don't know if it matters which side he casts his dog from? It just another way of training retrievers in another country for viewing. No doubt we will continue to do our thing and they their way!


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

http://www.keiththedogguru.com/

http://www.copperbirch.net/

Here is some other opinions!

http://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.u...p=168557&sid=609d4802f4053c4ee1125b4a10a29104



For you interest!


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

He has done a fine job marketing himself.,,, and he probably is a very good dog trainer also. You don't have to win the U.S National every year to be a very good dog trainer.

There are good trainers all around the world. Most just don't have the time or resources to make a DVD. So Kudo's to those who can. 
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Pete


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

bobbyb said:


> don't mean to cast asperisions, but WHO in the USA sits a dog on his left side and send with his right hand ????
> 
> BobbyB
> cajun


I cast off dogs British style, because its the way I learned at first. My mentor has a lot of British training influence dating back to the 70's. And Eug, this was long before I trained with Mike or saw his videos!

It's not just about using a different hand, it's about body language and how you heel/line the dog. For me, it's easier to line the dog using the British method.


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

I was gonna order these but when it asked for a address I didn't know what to put. I wonder what mailing company they will use to deliver in the U.S.?


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Are there two slots for addresses. Put your PO Box in one and your street address on the other. That's what I have to do. I don't get mail delivered to the house in my rural area.


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

Jennifer Henion said:


> Are there two slots for addresses. Put your PO Box in one and your street address on the other. That's what I have to do. Don't get mail delivered to the house.



It just has one line. I don't get mail at the house either so I wanted to give the right address. I e-mailed them , just waiting on an answer.


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

> I wonder what mailing company they will use to deliver in the U.S.?


For a lightweight package of 4 DVDs probably the air mail service provided by Royal Mail. When I've posted stuff to the US that's the route I take.

Just a laugh .... The Royal Mail sticker is quite an impressive thing in "gold" leaf showing HRHs head. One of my correspondents in the States was taken aback when his little girl rushed in from taking the post with "Daddy, Daddy, you've got a letter from the Queen of England!!"

Eug


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

Has anyone ordered this? How long did it take to get to you?


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

My husband ordered it for me as a Christmas present. But as is typical, didn't order it til 3 or 4 days before Christmas. I'll let you know when it gets here. Did you order it?


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## tuckerdutch (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm always wary of people with accents selling me things. I think we Americans add extra credibility to someone with an English/irish lilt to their voice and that can get us in trouble. I'm sure the training videos are fine but do they really know more than we do? Isn't the bottom line just bringing the bird to you to eat? If a bird I shoot falls 200 yards away behind a 12 foot stone wall and a horse gate, maybe I need to hit the sporting clay range or go with a more powerful shot. I've been out four times this season and all the action took place within 40 yards. I think Richard Wolters books are all u need.


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

I'm always wary of people with accents selling me things. Me too, but unfortunately, as Americans don't have accents,  it's very hard for me to stop buying Colgate toothpaste. 

I think we Americans add extra credibility to someone with an English/irish lilt to their voice and that can get us in trouble. The charming Mexican lady in the factory near Waterbury can attest to that.  

Isn't the bottom line just bringing the bird to you to eat? Not if you run in competitive events it isn't, or hunt big water, or work your dogs for other shooters, or handle two or three dogs at once, and many here do just those things. 

If a bird I shoot falls 200 yards away behind a 12 foot stone wall and a horse gate, maybe I need to hit the sporting clay range or go with a more powerful shot. If you've never wounded a bird and seen it fly on then you are a better shot than the Olympic trap gold medallist I picked up for on a driven shoot. Also a pricked bird can fly a lot further than 200 yards, believe me. The 12 foot wall is a definite difficulty; it's probably round a prison, and whilst there are likely many experienced shooters inside, they aren't the sort I want to mix with, so any dammed pheasant can stay where it dropped.

I think Richard Wolters books are all u need. Excellent works all of them. They've propped up many a kitchen table leg and never failed to give satisfaction.

I've been out four times this season and all the action took place within 40 yards. Well, some of us have done a few more days than that and our experience has been a tad different; the chap below ferinstance. 







In a more serious vein, almost any published work can teach us something even if it's not always quite the lesson intended! With the DVD in question, like others I'm put off by the hype and subsequent evasiveness, but there will no doubt be something in there to provoke the little grey cells, so I await Jen's evaluation with interest. 

Eug


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## Upland Hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

Colonel; Fair reply. If you have seen the new video I would be interested in your thoughts as to it's worth as a guide. 

Enjoyed the video clip. Made me wonder if all the travelers over the years to a certain famous lake in Scotland saw Nessie or a Chessie. Might be tough to tell at a distance after a visit to the pub.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Colonel Blimp said:


> I'm always wary of people with accents selling me things. Me too, but unfortunately, as Americans don't have accents,  it's very hard for me to stop buying Colgate toothpaste.


Eug! You coulda "smoked out" everything wrong with the preceding post by sending over a tube or two of Euthymol! That's the "rebuttal" I'm asking for _*through*_ the post (Royal Mail)

MG

PS Have you booked the Albion bandwagon for Europe 2013 yet?

First things first: for the "other football" 










it's gotta go through Titletown, U.S.A.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

I enjoyed that video clip. Nice dog work. Didn't think you had any Bay dogs by you. BTW, nice location for the blind. Actually a perfect location.


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

*UH*, Jen is the only one I know of who has ordered the DVD set. 

*Mike*, You can imagine the chihiking I've been on the wrong end of after the debacle at Chelsea, not the least from my cousin Carole, an arch Throstle if ever there was one! More power to your elbow, I just wish it was our lot doing so well.

*George, *Chessies are increasingly popular with serious coastal wildfowlers. The video shows the Dee estuary in Wales, just about 40 miles up the road from Blimp Towers. The big barge was carrying Airbus wings for onward transport to France.

Eug


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

tuckerdutch said:


> I'm always wary of people with accents selling me things. I think we Americans add extra credibility to someone with an English/irish lilt to their voice and that can get us in trouble. I'm sure the training videos are fine but do they really know more than we do? Isn't the bottom line just bringing the bird to you to eat? If a bird I shoot falls 200 yards away behind a 12 foot stone wall and a horse gate, maybe I need to hit the sporting clay range or go with a more powerful shot. I've been out four times this season and all the action took place within 40 yards. I think Richard Wolters books are all u need.


40 yards out is not very far! At Rhondeau Bay where I have hunted with my old dog there is a sorta boggy area first, then open water. My friend shot the bird 350 yds away. I handled Blackie to the bird. Actually once out into the open water he spotted the bird. He did that a couple of times that day. It is quite a swim but a sight to watch. There was a boat nearby in case of trouble.

Nice video Eug looked really neat. Would love to do it!!

As for people selling me things the worst are car salesmen and insurance people in Canada-ever pursing a sale!!IMHO


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Notice the boggy material!!


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Eugene

I was surprised at seeing a Chessie because I haven't seen them in the few videos I looked at of British Field Trials and British shoots (Keeper's Day,etc.). I was also surprised at seeing the shooter with a black gun. 

As for the coastal gunning, that estuary bears a remarkable resemblance to my own area. It looks like a small sand bar in front of the blind, low water, exposed tidal flats and I could swear those were brant in the background, they sure flew like them. If there was more Spartina up on the meadow it would look exactly like where I gun. 

Those Chessies sure are great for that kind of work. I know that Echo can do that retrieve all day long.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm hooked, I would buy that DVD just for the wonderful scenery, exotic (to me) dog work, jumping stone walls and iron gates, up and down terrain and most importantly that great Irish accent. My wife and I are going to Ireland this Spring, I wonder if they have a schedule of field trials over there, or if there was a training set up I could take a day off our trip to check out? 

BTW, I'm an older -well seasoned guy;-)

John


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

John Robinson said:


> I'm hooked, I would buy that DVD just for the wonderful scenery, exotic (to me) dog work, jumping stone walls and iron gates, up and down terrain and most importantly that great Irish accent. My wife and I are going to Ireland this Spring, I wonder if they have a schedule of field trials over there, or if there was a training set up I could take a day off our trip to check out?
> 
> BTW, I'm an older -well seasoned guy;-)
> 
> John


When my husband and I went to England we were fortunate enough to hook up with a local dog person....the work was amazing and very different from what we do here in the States....I'm sure you'll find someone over there to hook up with, but you might want to make sure your wife is okay with it!


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

FOM said:


> When my husband and I went to England we were fortunate enough to hook up with a local dog person....the work was amazing and very different from what we do here in the States....I'm sure you'll find someone over there to hook up with, but you might want to make sure your wife is okay with it!


 OK, maybe "hook up" isn't the best terminology.


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

John,

if you give me your dates and an idea if you will be in the Republic or The North, I might be able to pull a few strings. Best do it via PM.

Eug


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Careful what you ask for - Eug is liable to set you up in a hide inside Baskerville House using Centenary Square for tolling pigeons. And most likely would've made splendid use of Brum's "Forward" statue for handling lessons










had not some c̶i̶v̶i̶c̶-̶m̶i̶n̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶d̶i̶v̶i̶d̶u̶a̶l̶ prankster burnt it to the ground 10 years ago.

MG


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Also, Eug's QC insists I issue the disclaimer that the statue's burning did not adhere to official British "scorched earth retriever training philosophy" - even if the handler does appear to be giving a Back!-burn-Back! cast...

MG


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

John Robinson said:


> I'm hooked, I would buy that DVD just for the wonderful scenery, exotic (to me) dog work, jumping stone walls and iron gates, up and down terrain and most importantly that great Irish accent. My wife and I are going to Ireland this Spring, I wonder if they have a schedule of field trials over there, or if there was a training set up I could take a day off our trip to check out?
> 
> BTW, I'm an older -well seasoned guy;-)
> 
> John


Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking and why I wanted the set. In addition to any little nuggets of knowledge that may come along with it. 

When I look for something to watch on the tele, my ideal is to find good scenery, good people and hunting dogs. 

My current favorite is the American Gun Dog series with Harley Jackson. He did 5 or 6 seasons of the show and I have them all on DVD. The footage is mainly outdoors in some of this country's most beautiful bird hunting locations. He hunts over pointers, labs, spaniels, setters, etc. Great show.


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

Jennifer Henion said:


> My husband ordered it for me as a Christmas present. But as is typical, didn't order it til 3 or 4 days before Christmas. I'll let you know when it gets here. Did you order it?


Yes I ordered it on the 15th and still haven't got it. They don't give a tracking number out for these so I guess I'll just wait til it gets here. I talked to keith yesterday and he said it might be after the 1st of the year.


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## tuckerdutch (Dec 8, 2012)

Colonel Blimp said:


> I'm always wary of people with accents selling me things. Me too, but unfortunately, as Americans don't have accents,  it's very hard for me to stop buying Colgate toothpaste.
> 
> I think we Americans add extra credibility to someone with an English/irish lilt to their voice and that can get us in trouble. The charming Mexican lady in the factory near Waterbury can attest to that.
> 
> ...


Does the dog actually get on the barge? They should include video of a jet taking off and landing. This is all in good humor btw.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

John Robinson said:


> OK, maybe "hook up" isn't the best terminology.


I know what you mean, but "hook up" doesn't meant that anymore...I can't get used to it...

Old Lady Regards...


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

mlp said:


> Yes I ordered it on the 15th and still haven't got it. They don't give a tracking number out for these so I guess I'll just wait til it gets here. I talked to keith yesterday and he said it might be after the 1st of the year.


I received the dvd's today. gonna start watching tonight, 4 dvd's so may take a while


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

mlp said:


> I received the dvd's today. gonna start watching tonight, 4 dvd's so may take a while


mlp,

I'm anxious to hear your impressions of the dvd set. I like the concept of following the dogs for 3 years as they progress through training. I think the differences (US vs. UK) in training techniques as well as the differences in training goals would be interesting to see as well. I agree with Jennifer H. that watching good looking dogs in beautiful countryside might make the purchase worthwhile and any nuggets of wisdom would be a bonus!

Swack


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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

I watched the first two dvd's lasnight. The first dvd is mostly starting with a young pup and the rights and wrongs of early age. As I don't have any dogs under 4 years I am mostly interested in the advanced training which is starting more in the 2nd dvd. He has some good training advice and shows working through some interesting problems with young dogs. I am anxious to watch the 3rd dvd tonight , as they say it's now getting down to the nitty gritty


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

Never saw feedback on the 3rd and 4th DVDs?


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

So, where is that list of the FTCH dogs this "guru" fellow made in the UK? Titles is titles, as they say. Very curious as to how many titles it takes to be a "guru."


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

GulfCoast said:


> So, where is that list of the FTCH dogs this "guru" fellow made in the UK? Titles is titles, as they say. Very curious as to how many titles it takes to be a "guru."


Yeah, you want to know if he has any pelts on the wall.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

If each CD has a bottle of Jameson taped to the case I think I could make it through the series. After watching it and drinking I'd be training using my Irish voice......oooooo-ver? bahh-ak!....


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## Dick Sheldon (Jul 14, 2006)

Erin Lynes said:


> I always think that with all the practice those British dogs get jumping and climbing fences, they must be a little trickier to keep kenneled


I taught mine to jump hurdles (low then high hurdles) when I was doing heeling work at the high school track. That was STUPID I can't keep him inside a 4 foot fence, now it takes 6.


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## willson (Nov 8, 2005)

Jennifer Henion said:


> Any technique from any country that improves our retriever training, is worth absorbing. This might mean you have to overlook the differences in the small details, but that effort may be worthwhile if you learn something new about a bigger concept.
> 
> Not saying they do it better or necessarily know more than the US experts, I haven't even seen the DVDs, but I'll bet there are things to be learned from anyone who is successful at what they do. Especially if the scenery is REALLY pretty!
> 
> Jen


I agree with this. I enjoy learning about training dogs from anyone. I own most of the well known training videos and have learned good things from all of them. I just ordered this one and will look forward to learning something new. Thanks for posting this.

Larry


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## blind ambition (Oct 8, 2006)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> If each CD has a bottle of Jameson taped to the case I think I could make it through the series. After watching it and drinking I'd be training using my Irish voice......oooooo-ver? bahh-ak!....


Yer a bluudeee idjet thas wat yuu arrr! Dee ya thinnk any sane man is gownna tout 'is wares wiv a wee tiny trappin o' Irish...gahd, occh ah canna hardly say it, Irish Whisky!???
Nay, nay, nay laddy, if it's repeat business he be wantin he better stap his wee DeeVeeDee to a greet big bottle o' Highland malt!


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

The dog that the video/DVD follows from puppy to finished earned his FTCH in January... So that's at least one.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

blind ambition said:


> Yer a bluudeee idjet thas wat yuu arrr! Dee ya thinnk any sane man is gownna tout 'is wares wiv a wee tiny trappin o' Irish...gahd, occh ah canna hardly say it, Irish Whisky!???
> Nay, nay, nay laddy, if it's repeat business he be wantin he better stap his wee DeeVeeDee to a greet big bottle o' Highland malt!


This can'naht be tahped!


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Bartona500 said:


> The dog that the video/DVD follows from puppy to finished earned his FTCH in January... So that's at least one.


Yes, two of the pups from the video have made it. One has his FTCH and the other is a few points away. The 3rd and 4th dvds are the best in my opinion. I was actually sad at the end of the fourth dvd. Such a neat series. 

My only complaint is he really doesn't show a lot of cold blind work. There's a lot of shown blinds and lot of handling training, however. His dogs do handle very crisply and are very crisp on obedience. It really is a neat series from a newbie perspective.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

Jennifer Henion said:


> Yes, two of the pups from the video have made it. One has his FTCH and the other is a few points away. The 3rd and 4th dvds are the best in my opinion. I was actually sad at the end of the fourth dvd. Such a neat series.
> 
> My only complaint is he really doesn't show a lot of cold blind work. There's a lot of shown blinds and lot of handling training, however. His dogs do handle very crisply and are very crisp on obedience. It really is a neat series from a newbie perspective.


I was hoping you would chime back in. My copy is on the way... I am looking at two different bitches out of the FTCH dog in the video. They're 10 & 14 months now, and demonstrating great work. Keith really is a nice guy, and he really does produce some top quality dogs. Billy at Leadburn took one of the Copperbirch dogs to FTCH w/ relative ease, so I've heard.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Wow, if the pups grew up with Keith and out of Ross, I'd bet they are a really nice dogs! He definitely knows dogs and is a great guy.

Please let me know if you get one and how they turn out for you. Would love to see them.


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## kennel maiden (Jun 11, 2012)

I think up until then Keith had never actually made a dog up to FTCH himself  and did he definitely make that one up himself? I can't remember.
He talks a good talk though  (and he has bred some nice dogs that have done well in the hands of others.....)


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Are we talking about the man's credentials ,or the content of the videos?..You make your choice and you pay the money. What you get is what you get. What you do with it is up to you.
Frankly,It doesn't matter a jot whether the man made up 1 Ftch ,Or 100.
It would be the same for any pup you got from Lardy or Farmer stables.
The videos show what the man does,not what titles he has won.


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

polmaise said:


> Are we talking about the man's credentials ,or the content of the videos?..You make your choice and you pay the money. What you get is what you get. What you do with it is up to you.
> Frankly,It doesn't matter a jot whether the man made up 1 Ftch ,Or 100.
> It would be the same for any pup you got from Lardy or Farmer stables.
> The videos show what the man does,not what titles he has won.


Um....it matters quite a jot to a lot of folks. The question is does what HE does, produce champions at HIS game, with HIM driving. Can he play golf, or is the "guru" just a driving range pro? The answer to that question has an awful lot of bearing on whether "what he does" is worth a flip, or worth paying for, you know? 

It sounds like he has bred some FTCH's. The question is has he built one or more "from the ground up" using his training method that he is trying to get me to pay cash to view. Jots is Jots, as they say in 'merica.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Gulf Coast asked "_The question is does what HE does, produce champions at HIS game,_"..?
His 'Game' may be different to your's or mine!?..Like I said, The content of the videos rather than the Titles achieved is surely what you are 'buying' with your dollar?..


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Mark, I follow Lardy and have watched Lardy's Dvd's and read his articles and booklets. Love em! My training is following Lardy as closely as possible. Bought Keith's dvds because they looked cool and I happened to kind of know the guy via several UK and Irish gundog groups on facebook - and because this is my hobby, so I buy stuff.

Here's my take on Keith and his Dvds: He's very down to earth, despite his high end production manager and the commercials. He knows dogs and dog training. He knows his gun dog sport backwards and forwards and has had success in it, including making up two of the puppies in his Dvd series that follow the dog's progress over 3 yrs. 

The puppy and young adult obedience drills are well laid out for the novice. The yard drills he presents are very similar to pile work, baseball, simple casting, and T work. His T drill is more complicated and called a "Rotating diamond" where he sends to a different destination in the diamond, whistle stops and casts left, right or back. He moves this drill to different locations with different cover and obstacles like fences that the dog has to cast over. Also moves the drill to water.

He then moves to teaching the process of blind retrieves. He increases the difficulty and distance over time and goes up to 400 yards across heavy cover and water. There's also a lot of instruction on building marking skills.

So it very much follows a similar progression to Lardy's. But it's a little different in style and does not use compulsion training.

I don't recommend it to a seasoned hunt tester or trialer in the US. I do recommend it to hunters looking for a thorough dvd that shows what to do from 7 weeks to 3 years to get a fully trained hunting dog. Also recommend it to those who don't use compulsion methods, but are following a proven US program to create a competition dog and need some different ideas for teaching and proofing Lardy and Graham type systems without the collar. 

Just my own view.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

I agree w/ Robert in that the "pelts" or lack thereof have no real bearing on the content of the DVD. The end of the DVD will show whether or not the methods produced dogs capable of doing the work. All that said, making FTCH's is one way to measure a trainers success. But if he's not in it for that, this method is useless. 

For instance, we could argue all day about Mike Stewart's dog training capabilities, but titles wouldn't have anything to do with it. 

This is why I mentioned that Ross did earn us FTCH. Doesn't matter whether Keith handled him for it or not. The dvd shows Keith train the dog from puppy onward, & the dog earned the FTCH. That's more than enough pudding for me.


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## terrax (Sep 1, 2011)

Um....it matters quite a jot to a lot of folks. The question is does what HE does, produce champions at HIS game, with HIM driving. Can he play golf, or is the "guru" just a driving range pro? The answer to that question has an awful lot of bearing on whether "what he does" is worth a flip, or worth paying for, you know? 

To use your golf analogy.
Can you then say that Sean Foley who coaches golfers such as Hunter Mahan, Tiger Woods, Sean O'Hair, Stephen Ames and Justin Rose is not worth listening to because he chose to become a great instructor rather than try to go the tour route?


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

OK, lets play with the golf analogy. If I can measure the success of the training, by watching Tiger, O'Hair and others win majors, then he is worth listening to on the swing. If not, not so much. Just another guy. From what I hear above, the man is good at "breeding" golfers. I want to know how many of those golfers DID HE COACH HIMSELF TO A MAJOR? If you claim to be a "guru" golf coach, that is a pretty fair question. Amazing how folks want to do the run around, and not just answer a simple question. I have not downed his DVD's, I have asked about his credentials. Its a really simple numerical answer: O, 1, 2.


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