# How to build a launcher



## timn (Jul 30, 2007)

Anyone ever build a launcher like bumper boy. If so how thanks.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

This is a prototype for one I built. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=einY6g53jqk

I designed the electronic sequencer that drives the servo and advances to the next with each push of the button. It would be easier to make a 2 shot one using hacked servos driven directly from the remote.


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## Fowlfeller1100 (Mar 30, 2009)

I just got a great idea involving Estes rockets... Be right back!


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## Scott Jinks (Feb 21, 2006)

"I designed the electronic sequencer"

Would you like to share a little more detail?


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## timn (Jul 30, 2007)

Yes please.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

The seqencer is based on a 4017 Decade Counter. Each time a voltage is placed on the enable pin, the counter advances one count, resulting in a high signal on one of the output pins.

The servos are driven using 555 timer circuit to generate the correct signal to position the servo arm. The frequency changes when the signal from remote goes high, causing the arm to move.

These outputs of these two devices are AND'd (74LS09) through 8 gates and the output connected to the servos. The circuit can drive up to 8 servos sequentially.

Add a switch, some connectors and a couple of LEDs to indicate power and ready for a complete system.

I have a circuit board designed for the circuit, but have not gotten them made yet.

I built 3 shot and 5 shot versions and have shot them at least a thousand times. They hold up well under really harsh conditions, being bounced around in a truck etc.

The velcro on the front of the panel holds the receiver. I found that the range is better when the antenna is vertical rather than tilted like in the prototype picture.

The legs can be moved up and down on the slide to adjust the angle.

The hole in the front is to access the power switch and to see the LEDs without getting in front of the unit.

It folds flat to save space.


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## labman626 (Aug 31, 2009)

How much total are we looking at here?


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

labman626 said:


> How much total are we looking at here?


The sequencer does not cost much in parts. Just time putting all of the wires on. The aluminum parts I made the prototype out of came from the tslots company. Another company sells seconds of these tslots on ebay for about $1 foot. You can build anything with them. Servos are $15 or so. 

Another option for the sequencer is to use a programmable micro controller. PIC is one, Atmel AVR is another. The Bumper Boy uses the Atmel AVR. You can buy the PIC programming kits for robotics projects from Radio Shack, Digikey, Jameco.

Steve


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## RodneyB46 (Dec 18, 2008)

is that an 8bit avr or a 32 bit


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## RodneyB46 (Dec 18, 2008)

okay so i get that you made your frame out of aluminum brackets from tslots. but how did you make the barrel launcher,or firing unit.or was that purchashed from bb and then mounted to your frame?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

> The seqencer is based on a 4017 Decade Counter. Each time a voltage is placed on the enable pin, the counter advances one count, resulting in a high signal on one of the output pins.
> 
> The servos are driven using 555 timer circuit to generate the correct signal to position the servo arm. The frequency changes when the signal from remote goes high, causing the arm to move.
> 
> ...




GOT IT!!!

Now I'ma gonna go bang my head on the sidewalk!!!!:shock::shock:

Gooser


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

MooseGooser said:


> Now I'ma gonna go bang my head on the sidewalk!!!!:shock::shock:
> 
> Gooser


You beat me too it!!!!!!!!!


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

RodneyB46 said:


> okay so i get that you made your frame out of aluminum brackets from tslots. but how did you make the barrel launcher,or firing unit.or was that purchashed from bb and then mounted to your frame?


Retriev-R-Trainers. You can get them at Dogs Afield. The are mounted to the frame using plumbing clamps from Lowes and T-Slots Hardware.

The trigger I made out of aluminum angle with a shutter that slides back and forth using a servo. An L shaped slot works better and is easier to make. 

I am going to get some of the sequencer boards made shortly. They have jumpers to select 3 to 8 servos and run off of 4 AA batteries. The batteries last 100s of shots, as long as you remember to turn them off.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

RodneyB46 said:


> is that an 8bit avr or a 32 bit



I think the BB AVR is 32-bit. I don't remember, but noticed it when I was fixing one of them recently. It looks like they generate the sounds with it also. Most important are the number of output lines so you can drive the number of servos you want to. For this application, the accuracy of the servo arm angle is not as important as it is for robotics. You just want to turn it enough to operate the trigger. Microcontrollers are cheap for what you get, and the programming software is free. There are plenty of code examples on the microcontroller discussion boards and websites for controlling multiple servos. Hey, another discussion board to join! LOL


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## pwyxit63 (Jan 3, 2003)

or....

simply make one like this and attach tt electronics to it!!


Sabireley- i would like to see someone WAY more technically capable than me create a device that allows 209 primers to be shot in the field without reloading using the sequencer theory you have worked out.


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## IA Hunter (May 1, 2006)

Do you have a part list and a wiring diagram? 

I read the comments and understand most of the language. 

This design looks great and doable, any suggestions on where we can get parts?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

> I read the comments and understand most of the language.


 
Cough geek cough


I wanna be able to understand this also.

I have wanted to make one using an archery release,

I cant figgure out the electronics.
My tounge starts to hang outa my head,, and gets to close to the wiring !!


Gooser


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## TXretriever (Feb 12, 2010)

this is awsome. im going to have to put on of these together.


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

I have visions of gooser touching two wires together and blowing up like in cartoons wearing that red number. Very disturbing! but worth the price of admission.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

pwyxit63 said:


> or....
> 
> simply make one like this and attach tt electronics to it!!
> 
> ...


For dry pops?


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## pwyxit63 (Jan 3, 2003)

Sabireley said:


> For dry pops?



YES!! a stand alone unit. i'm thinking a line up of 209's, press, WHAM, (move to next primer), press, WHAM...ect...utilizing something like the winger zinger, gunners up type firing solution?


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

pwyxit63 said:


> YES!! a stand alone unit. i'm thinking a line up of 209's, press, WHAM, (move to next primer), press, WHAM...ect...utilizing something like the winger zinger, gunners up type firing solution?


It would be nice to do it with one servo motor and a mechanism that cocks a hammer and moves a slide to advance to the next primer. One servo per shot would be expensive to build by the time you add a hammer assembly, primer holder, servos, sequencer board, wiring, etc. That would be a fun project. It would be a good attention getter for a winger or launcher as well. 

You could just put a launcher with no bumpers loaded on it or dry pops.

As a matter of interest, someone has a patent (found it on the internet doing patent searches) for a starter pistol that looks and works like a staple gun. You load a bunch of 209 primers in it and squeeze the handle to fire the primer and eject it. It is a really good idea, but probably expensive to build.


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## wood_duckhunter (Apr 13, 2004)

Man you got to add a few more pictures of that launcher. About the best looking Homemade I've seen. Here is a prototype I have that I have used for years. It no where as neat as Sabireley but it gets the job done.









Video of the Firing pin.


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## RodneyB46 (Dec 18, 2008)

wood duckhunter whats your orange thing called. are you using that in place of a servo to release the firing pin? so far has there been any sound used on these units or just the bang from primer load?


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

A few more pics of them with remote mounted on the side and one with an Armadillo Foam Bumper.


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## wood_duckhunter (Apr 13, 2004)

The orange things are called Door actuators. They have a Push pull design. They work on a 12volt circuit. 

I'm really interested on the design and build on the other launcher myself. If you are planning on marketing them, then I understand if you don't want to show any pictures. I would like to know how the servos are mounted to the rail system under the Black Sheet metal. Not Really worried about the Circuit board you created, witch in fact is interesting. In my case I have have a 4 channel receiver. I'm only able to fire 4 launchers from a station, but thats oK. Could you take a few pictures of the rail system a little closer?? You can send them email if you like. [email protected]



Thanks


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Hi Wood_duckhunter

Here is a picture of the back. It is not a rail as much as a box that acts a clamp to hold the launchers, whilie allowing them to move a little bit while being shot. The lower side of the box has rectangular holes that hold the servos in place. The panel has a battery holder attached to it. I designed servo arms that mount on a holder that comes with the Hitec servos. 

For the one I made out of Tslots (in the youtube video), I used aluminum angle and cut servo sized slots using a sheet metal nibbler. The tslot version folded up, but the servos and trigger were not very well protected. That got me going with the completely enclosed sheetmetal design. It still uses Tslots for the ends to attach things like the legs, handles, stickmen, remotes, etc. 

Steve


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Attached picture.


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## wood_duckhunter (Apr 13, 2004)

I need to come up with a different design with mine. I like to be able to hide the door actuators. I run the actuators because of my 12 volt system of my receivers. 

I hate to keep bothering you but could I see whats behind the silver plate in the back?


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

wood_duckhunter said:


> I need to come up with a different design with mine. I like to be able to hide the door actuators. I run the actuators because of my 12 volt system of my receivers.
> 
> I hate to keep bothering you but could I see whats behind the silver plate in the back?


You could mount the door actuator vertically and have it pull down the launcher firing pin in pull mode, using a ramp or wedge to release the actuator from the firing pin at the end of the stroke. That would have the benefit of never having the launcher cocked. I am not sure how long the stroke is on them though. You need about 2 inches of pull to fire a .22 in a RTR.

If you wanted to use servos, you could use the twelve volt signal from your receiver to drive the input of the servo sequencer. They are a lot smaller and ligher than the door actuators. The circuit is adjustable with a dial to account for different input voltages from receivers, so it should work with Elsma receivers too. I will have to test that. 

If I could get the Elsma electronics and battery to fit in the launcher chassis, it would be fully contained unit. I would guess the Elsma electronics don't draw much power.

Steve


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## wood_duckhunter (Apr 13, 2004)

The door actuators would never work pulling the trigger down. The pull and pull stoke is only about 1". I was looking at the servo and thought the highest voltage was 6v. I have never messed with servo so that's new ground. 

I have a design in mine using 2" Alum. Angle. Just have to try it out. I like the Idea of the L slots.


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## pwyxit63 (Jan 3, 2003)

Sabireley said:


> It would be nice to do it with one servo motor and a mechanism that cocks a hammer and moves a slide to advance to the next primer. One servo per shot would be expensive to build by the time you add a hammer assembly, primer holder, servos, sequencer board, wiring, etc. That would be a fun project. It would be a good attention getter for a winger or launcher as well.
> 
> You could just put a launcher with no bumpers loaded on it or dry pops.


thats how i shoot dry pops now, no bumper.....bang

sometimes, rather than using the bumper boy siren (hey, hey), i will use the dry pop, then shot either a winger with shot or another rrt


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

wood_duckhunter said:


> The door actuators would never work pulling the trigger down. The pull and pull stoke is only about 1". I was looking at the servo and thought the highest voltage was 6v. I have never messed with servo so that's new ground.
> 
> I have a design in mine using 2" Alum. Angle. Just have to try it out. I like the Idea of the L slots.


Servos have three wires, power, ground, and signal. The frequency of the signal determines the position of the arm. Change the signal and the arm changes position. 6V is the max voltage, anything higher will burn it up. The sequencer actually uses the voltage for the remote receiver to adjust the frequency output by the 555 timer chip, thereby moving the servo arm. Push the button and the servo turns one way, then returns to its original position. The voltage to operate the servo is from 4AA batteries. The voltage from the remote is isolated from the voltage used to power the servos. So the 12v from the Elsma will not affect the servo operation, as they would still run on 6V. It would be easy to add a 5V or 6V power supply to run the servos, that is powered by the 12v battery pack. The power supply is single chip you can get at Radioshack. 

You can hack servos by opening them, removing the feedback board, and wiring the motor directly. That is how wingers and other devices (except BBs) that use servos work. It is hard on the servo because it is driven to the stop until the voltage is removed. The arm must be moved back to the start position manually.


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## Backwater Retievers (Nov 27, 2011)

can you please explain the electronics. i am super confused when it comes to the remote control and the unit it send to activate the servos. . i am a college student trying to save some money. just confused on were to buy and how to wire it up.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Backwater Retievers said:


> can you please explain the electronics. i am super confused when it comes to the remote control and the unit it send to activate the servos. . i am a college student trying to save some money. just confused on were to buy and how to wire it up.


Don't worry about the discription I provided earlier in the thread. That is to operate more than two unmodified servos from a single remote. It is more complicated than needed for a two shooter.

The easiest thing ( and best IMO) to do (not the cheapest) is the buy a used TriTronics or Dogtra remote release system. They work well, have integrated batteries, make sound, and are proven. 

(The Elsma remotes are cheaper, they work, but are 12v, you have to build a box to hold the receiver and battery, and use a door lock actuator or 12v solenoid instead of a hobby servo.)

Screw two Retriever trainers to a small piece of 3/4" plywood using u-bolts. Add folding legs made out of aluminum or steel angle. (Lowes) 

Drill a hole through the plastic knob on the firing pin on the retriever trainer and tie a loop of parachute cord.

Mount two bow releases (Walmart) to the board in a position to hold the RTR firing pin extended and clipped to the loop.

Open the servos and remove the circuit board. Solder two wires directly to the servo motor. On the other end of the wire, solder a mini plug (radioshack) to plug into the remote. Tritronics and Dogtra have opposite polarity, so you need to wire the plug opposite. You can experiment to get it going the right direction. 

You should be able to just silicone the servos to the board and use a piece of flexible wire to attach the servo arm to the bow release trigger. it would be better to mount the servo in a box or to a block of wood to protect it during transport.


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## Jason Glavich (Apr 10, 2008)

Sabireley said:


> Don't worry about the discription I provided earlier in the thread. That is to operate more than two unmodified servos from a single remote. It is more complicated than needed for a two shooter.
> 
> The easiest thing ( and best IMO) to do (not the cheapest) is the buy a used TriTronics or Dogtra remote release system. They work well, have integrated batteries, make sound, and are proven.
> 
> ...


I use elsema electronics with my hobby servos, they seem to work fine. The bigger issue is with the servos BB uses, they use a type of servo that just pushes (270~degrees or so) and is manually reset, eventually stripping out the gears.

In addition to this when reloading and cocking you oush against the servo and have to push a small pin inward to hold it inplace.(at least that is how mine are). The other day it slipped as I cocked and locked it into place. My ears were ringing for awhile.

BB is actually very unsafe based on the reloading. But then again, they work very well when they are working.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Jason Glavich said:


> I use elsema electronics with my hobby servos, they seem to work fine. The bigger issue is with the servos BB uses, they use a type of servo that just pushes (270~degrees or so) and is manually reset, eventually stripping out the gears.
> 
> In addition to this when reloading and cocking you oush against the servo and have to push a small pin inward to hold it inplace.(at least that is how mine are). The other day it slipped as I cocked and locked it into place. My ears were ringing for awhile.
> 
> BB is actually very unsafe based on the reloading. But then again, they work very well when they are working.


Do you run the servos at 12V, or do you have a 6V battery or Powersupply for them?


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## Jason Glavich (Apr 10, 2008)

9v actually, via a 6 AA battery pack. Wired to a cigaretter lighter plug, that plugs into my electronics box which holds the cigarette lighter (car side) then leads to the board.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Jason Glavich said:


> 9v actually, via a 6 AA battery pack. Wired to a cigaretter lighter plug, that plugs into my electronics box which holds the cigarette lighter (car side) then leads to the board.


Interesting. I would have thought the servos would burn out at 9v. 

Steve


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## huntingbob (May 21, 2011)

Here is one that I built with a walkie talkie as a trigger. This will also work on a winger using the factory servo.

launcher-0190 by huntingbob123, on Flickr

launcher-0188 by huntingbob123, on Flickr

launcher-0187 by huntingbob123, on Flickr

launcher-0189 by huntingbob123, on Flickr


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Jason Glavich said:


> I use elsema electronics with my hobby servos, they seem to work fine. The bigger issue is with the servos BB uses, they use a type of servo that just pushes (270~degrees or so) and is manually reset, eventually stripping out the gears.
> 
> In addition to this when reloading and cocking you oush against the servo and have to push a small pin inward to hold it inplace.(at least that is how mine are). The other day it slipped as I cocked and locked it into place. My ears were ringing for awhile.
> 
> BB is actually very unsafe based on the reloading. But then again, they work very well when they are working.


Not a big deal but I have to disagree on a couple points. People that don't know read something and think it must be true.

1- BB doesn't use a servo that moves 270 degrees "stripping the gears" nor is it manually reset. They send a signal that moves it 90 degrees or less, then it returns to the center position. Nothing is manually reset. Unlike some winger servos the BB servo returns to center after the signal is removed.

2- The BB is very safe. Used as intended it is as safe as any firearm. To reload it you stay behind the barrel, load the blank, close the action, load the bumper on the barrel, then cock the action. There is no servo to push on nor a pin to push to hold anything in place. Mine have never gone off unintentionally. They've never "made my ears ring." Actually the other system you mentioned sounds unsafe.

I think they make an excellent product and hope they are around until I get too old to train dogs...


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

I think Jason is using hacked servos that are being driven to the stop by his homemade electronics at 9v. Servos are designed for 4.5 to 6 V. The BB electronics send a true PWM signal to drive the servo forward and back, so it is ready for reloading. No manual resetting required. The board i built for my launcher to drive servos also drives the servo forward then back using a PWM signal.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Bob, 
What are you using to generate the signal to the servo?
Nicely done, BTW.

Steve


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## huntingbob (May 21, 2011)

i took the board out of the servo and also cut off the tab on the internal gear so that it can spin 360 degrees constantly as long as it is receiving power
I have a low voltage trigger acting as relay between the walkie talkie and 4Aa batteries
I will post a picture tonight


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## Jason Glavich (Apr 10, 2008)

John Lash said:


> Not a big deal but I have to disagree on a couple points. People that don't know read something and think it must be true.
> 
> 1- BB doesn't use a servo that moves 270 degrees "stripping the gears" nor is it manually reset. They send a signal that moves it 90 degrees or less, then it returns to the center position. Nothing is manually reset. Unlike some winger servos the BB servo returns to center after the signal is removed.
> 
> ...


I have brand new servos from bumper boy and brand new bumper boy electronics, they return to center but not enough to allow the action to be locked into place (on all 8 brand new servos) thus I have to push the holding pin and the servo backwards to make it lock. My new single shooter is the same way for cocking the action and pushing the servo back to allow it to lock. I have 3 and all of them work the same way.





Sabireley said:


> I think Jason is using hacked servos that are being driven to the stop by his homemade electronics at 9v. Servos are designed for 4.5 to 6 V. The BB electronics send a true PWM signal to drive the servo forward and back, so it is ready for reloading. No manual resetting required. The board i built for my launcher to drive servos also drives the servo forward then back using a PWM signal.


No hacked servos here. My electronics are for my own launchers not bumper boy, my seros operate between 8.5 and 12v. Serovs are made for many applications and can me made in any voltage you want. 9v was just the case I had laying around to make it work. I had originally planned on using them on my BB launchers but did not like the way I had to modify my design to work with them.


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

If you machined a barrel on a paintball gun to the same specs as a Bumperboy/Retriev-R-Trainer barrel, how far do you think you could get a bumper to fly?


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Jason Glavich said:


> I have brand new servos from bumper boy and brand new bumper boy electronics, they return to center but not enough to allow the action to be locked into place (on all 8 brand new servos) thus I have to push the holding pin and the servo backwards to make it lock. My new single shooter is the same way for cocking the action and pushing the servo back to allow it to lock. I have 3 and all of them work the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My bad on the servos. I thought you were using standard hobby servos.

I have not noticed issues with the BB servos not returning to center. That said, with my own launchers, sometimes the servo does not return due to the shock of the discharge. It is an issue I have been working on, though not that big of a deal to me. It is mostly aesthetic.


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## huntingbob (May 21, 2011)

Sabireley said:


> Bob,
> What are you using to generate the signal to the servo?
> Nicely done, BTW.
> 
> Steve



launcher-0192 by huntingbob123, on Flickr

launcher-0191 by huntingbob123, on Flickr


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

I was always impressed with BB.

Someone came up with the Retriever Trainer a long time ago. 40 years maybe more.

I always thought of mounting a couple and firing them remotely. I never got anywhere with it. BB did.

Considering it's such a small market in the grand scheme of things I'm glad they did.


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## Micah Duffy (Jan 21, 2010)

John Lash said:


> Not a big deal but I have to disagree on a couple points. People that don't know read something and think it must be true.
> 
> 1- BB doesn't use a servo that moves 270 degrees "stripping the gears" nor is it manually reset. They send a signal that moves it 90 degrees or less, then it returns to the center position. Nothing is manually reset. Unlike some winger servos the BB servo returns to center after the signal is removed.
> 
> ...


 WELL SAID!


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## alexmaresch (Oct 12, 2015)

Sabireley said:


> Hi Wood_duckhunter
> 
> Here is a picture of the back. It is not a rail as much as a box that acts a clamp to hold the launchers, whilie allowing them to move a little bit while being shot. The lower side of the box has rectangular holes that hold the servos in place. The panel has a battery holder attached to it. I designed servo arms that mount on a holder that comes with the Hitec servos.
> 
> ...


Is there any chance you could send a picture of the circuitry that you built using the decade counter and 555 timer and possibly photos of your sheet metal model you made. Also I am curious what you have chosen to use for a transmitter and receiver. Any help and information would be greatly appreciated.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

alexmaresch said:


> Is there any chance you could send a picture of the circuitry that you built using the decade counter and 555 timer and possibly photos of your sheet metal model you made. Also I am curious what you have chosen to use for a transmitter and receiver. Any help and information would be greatly appreciated.


I'll see if do can dig them up. I used Tritronics but Dogtra should work also. The circuitry converted the 6v signal to one that caused the servo to turn (PWM). The decade counter switched the signal from servo to servo every time you pushed the button on the transmitter. It supported up to 8 servos.


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## Tim D (6 mo ago)

Sabireley said:


> This is a prototype for one I built.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would you be able to provide me with instructions for the sequencer or possibly build me one? 631-655-3919


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