# Please share your input on Rex book



## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

I am very interested in the opinions of fellow/fellowette RTF'ers regarding which way to go with this Rex project. Please let me know what you would like to see. Thanks very much.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

I would like a book about Rex that includes an comprehensive overview of his training philosophy and techniques. An indepth training book, or workbook should be separate.


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## RickF (Jan 3, 2003)

I selected option 3 but a combo of 3 and 4 would be dandy!


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## Lisa S. (May 23, 2003)

I don't want to complicate things or mess up your poll, but... 
How about a book on his training program and his philosophy as it applies with a workbook. 
A book on his life and backround separate.

I look forward to reading it however you write it, it's a massive undertaking. Thank you in advance.  

--Lisa


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## Chris Kingrea (Jan 3, 2003)

Vickie, I voted option #2, just because I'm not a workbook note taking type person. But maybe I should be.

I'm just glad that perhaps, once and for all, Ted's question of


> Would someone please explain what the basic, fundamental elements are of the Carr method?


 will be answered. Putting an end to all speculation, misconceptions, rumor, and false claims. Thank you for your effort, and the best of luck with it.


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

I voted for 3. I think it would be important to get an idea of Rex and how his philosophies helped him to arrive at his training ideas. 

And I am a workbook kind of person - I know you can't train every dog identically(the big "it depends" fits in here) but I like the idea of a workbook.

Andy


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

I voted for No. 2 so you could get it done faster Vickie  but 3 or 4 sound good also. Wondering if it would flow well, to do sort of like the Dahls did with their book, a training book with parallel chapters about him, his life and the dogs he trained?


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

Vickie-
I really don't know a thing about Rex Carr, but I love biographies-the life events that lead up to "Why" he chose to dedicate his life to training dogs. I'd love to know if there was a dog in his childhood that was the catalyst & how he felt about his own dogs all through his life.

I've never read a manual or watched training videos, but I'd read one if it was incorporated into this book.
M


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: #4*



Keith Stroyan said:


> I voted for #4. First, you should write a book about Rex and his "philosophy." I think there's a "market" for it and you clearly have a passion for it. He touched the lives of a generation or more of retriever people.
> 
> Ditto. Break it down into 3 parts so you can go in stages. That will also allow you to bring any late info you receive into the book from other people that went to Rex's.


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

Vickie,

Anyway it comes together the most enjoyable for you, will be the most noticed in the reading.

My interest would be the history and philoshophy of the man. As I understand what that was, I seriously doubt a training manual is what any of us expect. Like Ed stated earlier, we aren't going to be able to use his complexities...those were a gift that can't be passed on. But getting to know the Main Man better, is what I'd be looking for. And I thank you in advance for compiling all those great memories.

UB


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## steelshotpeg (Jan 3, 2003)

Hi Vickie, 
Thank you in advanced for anything you publish on Rex, be it all of the above you mentioned or only one. I WANT ONE OF EACH!!!!!!!!!!!! Eatin up all the knowledge I can get, and wanting more. Put me first on the list , PLEASE!!!!!!!!


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## DKR (May 9, 2003)

Vickie,

Being new to the game it is difficult to jump in with a training book (video, workbook, ect..) without having an understanding of the person(s). It would help me tremendously to be able to first understand about the individual and their mindset then flow into the details of training. 

I would and did vote for a book on Rex Carr and his philosophy then a book devoted to his training. It would make it better for me at least to understand the training methods.

My 2 cents hope it helps.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Vicki -

I'd like the two book option.

Sometimes I get tired of reading theory and want to just read about the person.

Any truth to the rumor you are flying to Texas when you are done with you work on Mr. Carr and going to ghost write either Honcho Part II or the book on Ed and Judy? Just checking...ya' know....

Highest regards, deepest respect, and I'd like a signed first edition of whatever you decide...

Joe S.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Thank you very much to everyone who has responded to this poll so far and to each of you that has posted some suggestions and/or thoughts. Each of your opinions and votes means a great deal to me as this has become a huge project and it seemed time to get some real feedback from you. 

Please continue to let me know and again, I appreciate it. :idea: :idea: :idea:


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Joe, poor innocent Joe,

VickieLamb is coming to Texas to document our trysts. We will have to redo them all for publishing purposes and I'm not sure I'm up to it now, but will try my best. She's assured me that editing will take care of the retakes. BRAVO for retakes!!!

Tentative title is "VickieLamb and a Dead Sucker". Sort of catchy, don't ya think? And it's only two pages long, counting the Table of Contents.

Jerry


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Joe, poor innocent Joe,
> 
> VickieLamb is coming to Texas to document our trysts. We will have to redo them all for publishing purposes and I'm not sure I'm up to it now, but will try my best. She's assured me that editing will take care of the retakes. BRAVO for retakes!!!
> 
> ...


WELL NOW...and this just in from the "Too Much Information Department..." :roll: 

Could have done without THAT mental picture this morning, Jerry... :wink:

Regards,

Joe S.


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Vickie,

While I hoist my chest waders to their maximum height (see Jerry's post above! :shock: ), it's difficult to type! But, I voted for number 3.

I can't imagine such a tribute not including a bio of Rex, the man - the animal lover and student of life.

You would be the last one I would need to inform that presenting a workbook accurately will require an extensive explanation of his philosophy because he was so fluid in his application. But, perhaps it would be enlightening to offer an explanation of his step-by-step basics, along with his perspective on how that system came into being.

Further information of his work would best be a combination of techniques, and some real life examples of how decisions were made for developing one well known dog in contrast with anohter well known dog...something like that. Perhaps Soupy and Penrod, or one of the other siblings, just to provide a better look into what drove his decision making, as well as the creation of certain drills and exercises.

It's early. Is any of this making sense?  

Evan


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Yes, making sense!

Workbook, no workbook, one book or two...these are the questions... :?: :?:


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## Lisa Van Loo (Jan 7, 2003)

I votes option #3.

I rather like the idea of lifting the veil around Rex's training philosophy. No "training only" book would do that, I think. There was a whole lot of "why" involved with Rex's approach to training. 

A workbook with well-diagrammed drills, etc. would be an excellent accompaniment, and would keep the size of both parts within reason. Slim, portable workbook you can take into the field, heftier book giving the philosophy and decision-making processes the detail they require.

Best of both worlds, I'd buy a set!

Lisa


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## Jesse Higgins (Jan 3, 2003)

I voted for #2, but would be interested in the things Evan described. I personally don't thing a workbook is necessary, but there would need to be enough information about his training program to put the history and philosophy into proper perspective.

There are some really good training programs out there based on Rex's methodology. Is another workbook or training manual spefically on his program going to augment that? It seems to me that it wouldn't. If it would, then include it.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

no doubt there is plenty of material for 2 books. i'm somewhat like joe in that his philosophy and intuition intrigue me. here was a man who clearly spent his dog training career thinking "outside of the box". perhaps this type of book would inspire the next great innovator in our sport, whoever they might be! :wink: -paul


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Thanks once more to everyone who has taken the time to vote and also to those of you who expressed opinions in posts. If there are any more thoughts, please let me know.

Also, if any of you check back in here, I have one more question. Hard cover? Soft-bound/perfect bound? Or spiral bound with laminated or leather cover? 

Thanks again.


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## Lisa Van Loo (Jan 7, 2003)

Hard cover for the in-depth part. Something I can cozy-up with on a snowy day. Spiral-bound for the workbook, or whatever you want to call it. I envision something with good diagrams and descriptions of drills that I can tote into the field with me. 

Lisa - 2 books, no pressure here! :wink:


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## Len (Jan 21, 2003)

Lisa Van Loo said:


> Hard cover for the in-depth part. Something I can cozy-up with on a snowy day. Spiral-bound for the workbook, or whatever you want to call it. I envision something with good diagrams and descriptions of drills that I can tote into the field with me.
> 
> Lisa - 2 books, no pressure here! :wink:


What LisaDamLoo said :wink: 

Len


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## Jesse Higgins (Jan 3, 2003)

What Len & LDL said.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Thanks, all! :wink:


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## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

Yeah, what that LisaDamLoo said..............

Nazdrowie.............. :drinking:


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Vickie Lamb said:


> Thanks once more to everyone who has taken the time to vote.....
> If there are any more thoughts, please let me know.
> Thanks again.


how can it be ordered?


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Whatever it takes for you to do it justice is fine by me.


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

I don't know what I voted but would be interested in how certain dogs caused him to adjust training philosophy and other trainig anecdotes about widely known dogs.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

What's the latest on this? By the way, Ken, are you just digging up old threads today? This is a good one. Maybe it'll expedite the process.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

I think that you would HAVE to have something on his background. This will usually explain how a persons philosophies developed, i.e. the influences on your life make the person.

As for book, hard bound unless you do the worksheet angle then spiral.

Should be very interesting.


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## Hoytman (Jun 23, 2003)

How 'bout 2 books into 1 with all the above information along with a workbook if needed. Similar to the format of John and Amy Dahl's books. That way you can reference from one to the other and give examples of XYZ if need be without having to hold another book in your lap. Perhaps the corners of these pages could be marked with a color that could also be seen when the book is closed. That way you just flip the book open to a color coded area, perhaps a section you've been reading. 

A workbook one could take afield would be good.

My only suggestions is don't leave anything out that you feel is necessary and give it up because the publisher says it's too long. If they say that find another publisher.

Hard cover, with smith sewn binding. In other words something that will stand up to use and can be passed down from one generation to another.

As far as the work book, something that can be taken afield. This also must be able to "weather" (intentional spelling) the test of time.

I plan on passing all of the books in my library down to my son. It's too bad others have almost quit publishing in hard back with a good binding.

EDIT:

I'll be happy with whatever you decide Vickie. What is it they say? Beggars can't be choosey.


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## Loren Crannell (Apr 12, 2008)

I like option 2 the most. 

If I had a chance, I would also like to know how he trained other trainers so well, such as Sargenti and Rorem. How did he transfer his knowledge so completely to so many trainers would be inspirational at best.

Many of my FT peers are trained by Sargenti for dog and handler. Lynn Moore spent a week with him training, and then went on to win her first derby shortly thereafter. I think Rex had this great ability as a dog trainer, but also in communicating that knowledge to others and it's rubbed off in the closest trainers I can think of. (Rorem and Sargenti)


Loren


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Something written simplifically enough that Gooser kin understand it!


Gooser


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Vicki, with due respect... You have to be able to sell it or it will never get published, and first you have to be able to sell it to the publisher.

To those of us who didn't know him, Rexx is a legend, so a book that chronicles his life and how he came to be who he is the dog world would be very interesting. I think it would be saleable to a publisher and marketable to the public.

A training manual frmo Rexx Carr, with him unable to supervise it's writing, would be one more interpretation, several of which are already in play.

The life of the man behind it all is where the sale is from my perspective.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

DarrinGreene said:


> Vicki, with due respect... You have to be able to sell it or it will never get published, and first you have to be able to sell it to the publisher.
> 
> To those of us who didn't know him, Rexx is a legend, so a book that chronicles his life and how he came to be who he is the dog world would be very interesting. I think it would be saleable to a publisher and marketable to the public.
> 
> ...


Great Point DG...the other things I would be interested in reading would be actual excerpts from those that trained with the Major directly, not second or third hand from his assistant, even though many of those went on to fine careers on their own..I want to hear from Vicki herself, Mimi Cary Drake,Judy Aycock,Lanse Brown and any other amateur trainers still with us who could give us first hand accounts of what he might have done differently


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

BonMallari said:


> Great Point DG...the other things I would be interested in reading would be actual excerpts from those that trained with the Major directly, not second or third hand from his assistant, even though many of those went on to fine careers on their own..I want to hear from Vicki herself, Mimi Cary Drake,Judy Aycock,Lanse Brown and any other amateur trainers still with us who could give us first hand accounts of what he might have done differently



well you can tell I'm the new guy since I didn't realize until too late that this thread is from FOUR YEARS AGO!

gotta laugh at yourself once in a while I guess...


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

I think a bio on Rex and the development of his program would be fascinating. As far as a "training manual", I think his methods have been adopted by so many successful contemporary trainers, (some who have very popular DVDs) that I can gather that info in an updated, modern forum such as those. Whatever you decide, I'll be ready to order one when it hits the web.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

I voted for #2 because it had 49 votes and #3 had 50, so the score is back to 0 - 0. 

So Vickie, now that the votes are in and its been over 5 years since this poll began, does this book exist? As Ken Bora asked (to revive this thread) where can I buy it?

Mark


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

This is what her website says:



> Carr-Dinal Principles of Retriever Training - *COMING SOON!*
> _ - Vickie's work on the Rex Carr book volumes is drawing to a close in 2009. Please stay tuned for details on availability later this year._


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Lisa Van Loo said:


> Hard cover for the in-depth part. Something I can cozy-up with on a snowy day. Spiral-bound for the workbook, or whatever you want to call it. I envision something with good diagrams and descriptions of drills that I can tote into the field with me.
> :


Same for me. For sure the work book should be spiral bound so it will lie flat. A laminated cover so it can be wiped clean on occasion. 

Helen Graves


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

vicky
i have read one of rex's "files" .Letters he wrote to clients and his unique and very emotional style stood out to me.he writes about dogs almost like they are people.His terminology is very obscure and his letters are hard to follow and interpret "Fracturing" seems to play a prominent part in his very longwinded monologues with his clients.Clearly by his tone , he deeply cares about his dogs yet he seems in these letters to be both pragmatic and emotional, a truely strange combination.
Vicky I dont know how much access you have to his private papers and whether your access is comphrensive but i do know where you could find the file mentioned above which is 60 odd pages long from memory.I read it about 10 years ago and never made it to the end because I thought it was a little incoherent but in hindsight I probably just wasnt able to grasp his meaning
i am looking forward to your book immensely
what a subject matter!!!!!!!!!!!!
pioneer, profound,brute,softy,teacher, disiplinarian,innovator,rude and obnoxious, charming and very careing. 
wow what a complex guy i await the results of your research i hope it is warts and all and you chronicle his detractors who used to rather cyncically refer to rex"s dogs as having the "Escalon shuffle"
great men are often put under the microscope and i think getting it right with Rex Carr will be collosally difficult
good luck Vicky


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

DarrinGreene said:


> A training manual frmo Rexx Carr, *with him unable to supervise it's writing*, would be one more interpretation, several of which are already in play.


Except that's not the case in this situation. 

*Rex did write it. *

We started talking about this project back in 1985. As far as the training part goes, most of it is his own words...unaltered. The only thing I've done from that standpoint is to organize them. 

Anything that is an interpretation from me is duly noted. 

It's been mentioned that there are many things out there these days based on Rex's program, so why do this part?

My answer is that Rex was the beginning of it all...and to me at least, his vast contributions should be a matter of record. 

But besides that, with just about everything he wrote on his training, he has comments and insight that are priceless. 

Rex was meticulous about taking notes, keeping records...and I have all of his archives, as well as photo albums, scrapbooks, slides, old movies, his library, etc. 

Thanks to everyone for your input. It is much appreciated.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

2-Dogs said:


> I voted for #2 because it had 49 votes and #3 had 50, so the score is back to 0 - 0.
> 
> So Vickie, now that the votes are in and its been over 5 years since this poll began, does this book exist? As Ken Bora asked (to revive this thread) where can I buy it?
> 
> Mark





stoney said:


> vicky
> i have read one of rex's "files" .Letters he wrote to clients and his unique and very emotional style stood out to me.he writes about dogs almost like they are people.His terminology is very obscure and his letters are hard to follow and interpret "Fracturing" seems to play a prominent part in his very longwinded monologues with his clients.Clearly by his tone , he deeply cares about his dogs yet he seems in these letters to be both pragmatic and emotional, a truely strange combination.
> Vicky *I dont know how much access you have to his private papers and whether your access is comphrensive *


The reason I'm still working on this is because I have to work for a living...and the amount of material I have from Rex and Rex's estate is massive. Particularly with reference to his biography, all this requires going through/research and then determining what is most significant. However, as Charles C pointed out my website indicates, I am drawing near the end...and by the end of this year I should have a time frame...at least.

Stoney, as mentioned in the earlier post, I have all of Rex's archives. This includes all of his training records since he began training dogs, his training notes, his correspondence to people and the same from people, in addition to the items I mentioned in the above post, and much more. Much was given to me by Rex before he died, particularly training material. The rest was given to me by Billy and by his family after he died because of their awareness of the project. 

There is so much stuff I had to rent storage for it...

Again, thanks for all your comments...they mean a lot and are helpful.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2003)

I expect I will buy the book either way.

A training book peppered with philosophy, anecdotes. life history and experiences.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Hookset said:


> What's the latest on this? By the way, Ken, are you just digging up old threads today? This is a good one. Maybe it'll expedite the process.


Me? no, well kind of 
just having fun with search
and I still haven't found what I'm looking for


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## Mark Chase (Jul 24, 2003)

Vickie,
I personally would prefer option #3. I think it would be wonderful to gain both an indepth insight into the man and his methods and a workbook to see how these parallel each other.
Hard bound for the bio and spiral for the workbook. 
When you get a chance drop me a line with your take on her.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

having a book about Rex Carr would almost be like getting the original manuscript of the Ten Commandments from Moses..;-);-) j/k


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Vickie Lamb said:


> Stoney, as mentioned in the earlier post, I have all of Rex's archives. This includes all of his training records since he began training dogs, his training notes, his correspondence to people and the same from people, in addition to the items I mentioned in the above post, and much more. Much was given to me by Rex before he died, particularly training material. The rest was given to me by Billy and by his family after he died because of their awareness of the project.
> 
> There is so much stuff I had to rent storage for it...
> 
> Again, thanks for all your comments...they mean a lot and are helpful.


Vickie,

It seems reasonable to me that the initial portion of the book should be purely biographical. As interesting and unique a person as Rex was, a strong bio would tend to give better insight to those who would then read the detailed remainder of the book covering his method and training insights.

I appreciate the massive scope of this undertaking. We must all respect that there is only so much one author can do with this one of a kind opportunity. We - all of us in the retriever community - would benefit most by understanding the abiding love Rex had for dogs, as well as his often businesslike relationship with them in the field. That's why it's so important that his story is being told by a dog person who knew him. That's a critical perspective.

But it seems best that people first come to know Rex, the person, before becoming acquainted with the method he created and continually evoloved. Just my view.

Good luck,

Evan


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

Vickie,
Good luck with the project and I'm in line to get my copy regardless of how you put it together.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Vickie Lamb said:


> Except that's not the case in this situation.
> 
> *Rex did write it. *
> 
> ...


In that case I believe you're the holder of something very special and very marketable Vickie! 

Looking forward to it, of course.


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

Vickie,

Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to meet Rex. My involvement with retrievers began after he was gone, but I have heard many stories about the man, his training philosophies and approach. Several of the most successful programs are based on Mr. Carr's work and teachings with their own twists or interpretations.

Having a text available that unravels the mysteries of the man behind the myth and how he developed his training approach would be invaluable. 

In addition to all his successes, I feel that understanding the failures while developing his program is also worthy of inclusion. We all tend to learn more from our own failed attempts than we do when everything goes right. I'm sure Rex failed allot more than most of us would ever dream of in order to get to where he eventually did.

The other thing I think would make the book more interesting would be short story personal accounts of various situations / encounters with the Master himself, by those who knew and trained with him.

Regardless of what you come up with, save me a spot in line for the final result. I'm really looking forward to it.

Dan Wegner


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

DarrinGreene said:


> In that case I believe you're the holder of something very special and very marketable Vickie!
> 
> Looking forward to it, of course.


Marketable? Too a few hundred, maybe a thousand at best. Hardly enough for a publishing house to offset production cost. Better suited for magazine essay or readers digest. After 30 some years I would think that most of the training stratagies have been refined and improved enough that a newcomer would be best served by investing in a more recent publication or instructional video. For niche readers only regards.


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## 1NarlyBar (Jul 10, 2008)

greg magee said:


> Marketable? Too a few hundred, maybe a thousand at best. Hardly enough for a publishing house to offset production cost. Better suited for magazine essay or readers digest. After 30 some years I would think that most of the training stratagies have been refined and improved enough that a newcomer would be best served by investing in a more recent publication or instructional video. For niche readers only regards.


WOW 


You might think that things have been improved, but that shows that you do not understand THE MAN BEHIND THE METHOD. 

Still, to this day, I don't think that there has been a person as innovative and meticulous as Rex. 

He did not dabble, he dug in. 


Side note: Vicki - You wouldn't happen to have included some notes on Rex's horse training would you? I know that it was something that intrigued him in his later years. Billy just never told me his goals in this training or how far he went with it.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2009)

greg magee said:


> Marketable? Too a few hundred, maybe a thousand at best. Hardly enough for a publishing house to offset production cost. (snip)


You must be unaware of the digital printing houses where you can get books published at high quality, low runs and for a very reasonable price.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2009)

Vicky,

Here is what **I** would like, and maybe I'm the only one...

I would love to have a biographical introduction. Then SEE the notes AS-IS with your commentary. I love historical stuff like that. SEE the handwriting and try to decipher and understand the notes. Then have your commentary of what he was communicating or the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say.

I don't think you need to write a "training book". I don't see the point of it. A lot of the stuff has been revised, rehashed and modified. Maybe a section of "stuff that still works today" or whatever...

That's what I'd like to see. A compilation of the ACTUAL materials since they sounds interesting based on discussions you and I had a while back.

And THEN you don't have to work quite as hard putting it together. 

-K


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

1NarlyBar said:


> WOW
> 
> 
> You might think that things have been improved, but that shows that you do not understand THE MAN BEHIND THE METHOD.
> ...


Hey there...

Thanks for your comments.

And regarding horses, On evenings on some days after training, Rex and I would work whichever horse he had at home, time permitting. He had ground-worked a filly, Pepper, that I broke to ride... on many weekends we would go up to a cutting horse training facility where he often had up to two horses in training ... and yes, lots of training work and e-collar work, TT had sent him what was at that time very new... what amounts to a 1/2 of 1 level and it was amazing the things we could do with that... 

To answer your questions, yes, I have some of his horse training intertwined...and have mentioned in "Tailfeathers" in Retriever News about some of the passages he earmarked in books on horse training in his library and carried over to dog training as well. 

Some would say there are no correlations between the two...I humbly beg to differ. 

Have a great night!


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Kristie Wilder said:


> Vicky,
> 
> Here is what **I** would like, and maybe I'm the only one...
> 
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts, gal! And, the training stuff is not what I'd call a "training book" ... per se. It is coming together quite a bit like you and I have talked...  Again, thanks!


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

greg magee said:


> Marketable? Too a few hundred, maybe a thousand at best. Hardly enough for a publishing house to offset production cost. Better suited for magazine essay or readers digest. After 30 some years I would think that most of the training stratagies have been refined and improved enough that a newcomer would be best served by investing in a more recent publication or instructional video. For niche readers only regards.


Post three tonight.... 

...Well, Greg...

I'm not going to a publishing house... because I lose control of ultimate content and also of quality. Been there and done that before. 

As such, I'm struggling to do this myself. 

My reasons for doing this are based on a labor of love for something that should be a matter of record based on Rex's accomplishments and in-depth contributions to this sport. With all due respect, it matters not to me about niche regards. 

And on that note, back to work regards...

Vickie


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

Kristie got it right.
Please put me on the original notification list when it is ready. I want one. 
MP


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

1NarlyBar said:


> WOW
> 
> 
> You might think that things have been improved, but that shows that you do not understand THE MAN BEHIND THE METHOD.
> ...


I know things have improved. you don't here anyone mention the Escalon Shuffle anymore unless they're talking about dogs coming from that Era, So I do understand the man behind the method. I do have the ultimate respect for the program Mr Carr put together and use it extensively in my training. But only an idiot would think that the program hasn't been refined to the point that we are producing the most stylish ever scene. 

With all due respect Vicki I encourage you to follow your muse and complete your labor of love. I was just responding to a previous post about marketability. The competitive retriever population though is relatively small comparitivle speaking. What do you think would be a best guess at the number of interested people. I would stick with my original estimate of a couple of hundred to a thousand at best. For the record, I would consider myself one of the before mentioned niche readers and would be interested in the bio part of the book as well as any documentary type interviews with the people of the times. Good luck


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

I was thinking exactly what Kristie said.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Since you asked.
In part one I would be interested in a factual biography of Rex and the Rex years, listing all of his collaborators at TT, his clients and client dogs both the successes and failures followed in part two by the notes listed chronologically sans any extraneous commentary.

Then in any subsequent parts you may take it in any direction you wish....
With commentary on the clients and dogs, the notes,etc.......... and an accurate then till now account of the* primary *Carr based program(s) would be informative, showing how much contribution there actually was ... with how much of these programs content can actually be attributed directly to his work vs the work of others being of particular interest to me.

In any format I would read it for a review 

john


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

greg magee said:


> Marketable? Too a few hundred, maybe a thousand at best. Hardly enough for a publishing house to offset production cost. Better suited for magazine essay or readers digest. After 30 some years I would think that most of the training stratagies have been refined and improved enough that a newcomer would be best served by investing in a more recent publication or instructional video. For niche readers only regards.


Greg, I'm not interested in debating the viability of whatever Vickie's putting together, since I really have no idea what the size of the target market really is, but I figure if Wolters and Spencer are still in publication, then a good book from/about Carr would go a long way. 

I could be wrong of course.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Kristie Wilder said:


> I would love to have a biographical introduction. Then SEE the notes AS-IS with your commentary. I love historical stuff like that. SEE the handwriting and try to decipher and understand the notes. Then have your commentary of what he was communicating
> -K


Turtle Girl may be on to something here


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

dont take this wrong about what im about to say but. 95 % of the non field trial poeple could not handle how rex or as far as that does any one during that era of collar development trained. alot of times it was down right brutel. rex was an interesting character and you needed thick skin to be around him. i feel that mike lardy brought the use of collar into a tool that could be used on any dog. back in rex's days only the strong survived.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2009)

kip said:


> dont take this wrong about what im about to say but. 95 % of the non field trial poeple could not handle how rex or as far as that does any one during that era of collar development trained. alot of times it was down right brutel. rex was an interesting character and you needed thick skin to be around him. i feel that mike lardy brought the use of collar into a tool that could be used on any dog. back in rex's days *only the strong survived*.


Both people and dogs.

I was just about to respond to Vickie that including stories about how many grown men he made cry was a big part of getting to know Rex.

That and the story about Billy shooting the marble into the back of Rex's leg while water forcing a dog...and Rex's somber response.


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

DarrinGreene said:


> Greg, I'm not interested in debating the viability of whatever Vickie's putting together, since I really have no idea what the size of the target market really is, but I figure if Wolters and Spencer are still in publication, then a good book from/about Carr would go a long way.
> 
> I could be wrong of course.


Yes you would, the before mentioned books are geared towards the cookie trainer crowd. A book with Mr Carr's philosophies would be geared towards the hard core enthusiast in which there is just not that many. Marketable to the masses? No, Marketable to a small niche audience, yes. Even if this thead were to be considered a marketing study,(of which I think it probably was in it origin many years ago) a very limited # of people offered input in comparison to the amount of people on this forum.


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## Peggy Snyder (Jan 12, 2008)

Ohhhhh Kristie, I think you have a very good suggestion. I have some of the Kellogg letters and you can just feel him talking about dogs. To read what he wrote it would like your standing there listening to him lecture. I love history and the people who created it.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

I picture the book as more of a coffee table reference book that someone reads by the fire at night especially if its an unedited version in his writing. I think it would make a great gift idea to any dog afficianado...niche audience for sure...wont make Amazons top ten list but I bet 80 % of the people on here would buy one...


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## Lisa Van Loo (Jan 7, 2003)

Vickie;

Don't worry about what other people want. Write to please yourself. Your knowledge and passion for the topic will be conveyed much stronger that way, and people will either buy it or not. But either way, YOU will be satisfied with your creation, and that's all that matters.

Lisa


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Lisa Van Loo said:


> Vickie;
> 
> Don't worry about what other people want. Write to please yourself. Your knowledge and passion for the topic will be conveyed much stronger that way, and people will either buy it or not. But either way, YOU will be satisfied with your creation, and that's all that matters.
> 
> Lisa


If she were writing a novel you would have a point, she is not..............

Larger than life regards

john


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## winddomino (Jul 25, 2009)

I don't want to complicate things or mess up your poll, but... 
How about a book on his training program and his philosophy as it applies with a workbook. 
A book on his life and backround separate.

I look forward to reading it however you write it, it's a massive undertaking. Thank you in advance.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

Must we wait longer? Between vickie and ed, I'm not sure who is more aggravating.


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## Joe Brakke (Jul 3, 2008)

I would do a series based on topic.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Mucken&Ducken said:


> I would do a series based on topic.


I think the book/books is about ready to hit the presses.


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

Vicky:

I don't think you can write a book without writing about both. His personality and how he handled his handlers is as important as his theories on dogs.

I can't wait for whatever it is you write....


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

MRC Dream said:


> Must we wait longer? Between vickie and ed, I'm not sure who is more aggravating.


Sorry...unfortunately, I've got to work for a living and I write as I can. Which is every spare moment I can muster. Getting close...though...is all I can say at this time.

This is why I've been on here so seldom lately... I write, I write. Right now, it's 4:55 a.m. and I'm up, writing. Only knew about this thread because of an email from RTF.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Tim West said:


> Vicky:
> 
> I don't think you can write a book without writing about both. His personality and how he handled his handlers is as important as his theories on dogs.
> 
> I can't wait for whatever it is you write....


Thanks, Tim... for your thoughts. Hope you are well.


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## Vicki Worthington (Jul 9, 2004)

Hi Vic!

I think the complete book together with the workbook would be the absolute best option. It would give those of us who have been around awhile a great read about one of the sport's most inventive pioneers, insight into the training philosophy, and for those seeking a truly complete "training" manual, the ability to follow a formula for incorporating Rex's methods into their training programs.

Keep me near the top of the list for the first run & if you need a proof-reader or general guinea pig, feel free to call on me!

Vic


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2010)

If someone had asked me how old this thread was, I would have never guessed six years!!!!!!

ps -- I don't mean that as an affront to Vickie, it's just that I would have thought it was about two years old. Where does the time go????


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

"When will you make an end", asked the Pope? "When it is finished", answers Michelangelo. From-"Agony and the Ecstasy"


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## g_fiebelkorn (Jul 31, 2006)

Lisa Van Loo said:


> Hard cover for the in-depth part. Something I can cozy-up with on a snowy day. Spiral-bound for the workbook, or whatever you want to call it. I envision something with good diagrams and descriptions of drills that I can tote into the field with me.


I like this format.

George Fiebelkorn


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