# Please Support Field Trial Stats in Golden Retriever News



## Guest (Dec 2, 2007)

GRCA members who have been receiving the Golden Retriever News, the bimonthly publication of the Golden Retriever Club of America, may have noticed that as of a couple of years ago, field trial placements (and JAMs) are no longer listed. The Board of Directors decided to eliminate printing this information to help cut costs. I've been meaning to do something about this for some time and now I guess it's time to stop thinking and start doing.

If our Board is not going to print the information for the membership, it's up to the field enthusiasts (and supporters of us enthusiasts ) to get this info published ourselves. *My proposal is to take out advertising space and get the field trial stats back in the GR News.*

As we know, there simply aren't that many Goldens running field trials, so the amount of ad space won't be overwhelming. However, at $140 a page, it will start to add up and I'd like to ask for folks' financial support to get this rolling. Ideally, I'd like to publish info for all of 2006 and 2007 in the upcoming January/February issue and with enough support (i.e. $$), continue to take out ads in each issue.

My assistant, Mr. Pickering, will be so happy I have a project for him to help me with on those rainy days when he doesn't feel like training. ;-)

For information on how to contribute, please PM or email me. Any amount will help. It won't take but a few donations of $10 to quickly add up to another page!

Feel free to forward this to anyone who may be interested in supporting this effort, but I would rather it not be cross posted to any of the other Golden lists at this time.

Remember that many folks hold on to their GR News and refer back to them for years and many newcomers purchase back issues to learn about the Goldens they did not have the opportunity to see themselves. So this is not only about reminding the general membership that Goldens have a last name--Retriever--but it is also about preserving breed history!

Thanks,

Melanie
[email protected]


----------



## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Hmmm....ten dollars does not sound like very much so I'm thinking this must be 6 times a year? 

Let me know what I can do to help. In the unlikely event that one of my dogs ever qualifies, I'd love to see the stats in the GRCA

Diane


----------



## Guest (Dec 2, 2007)

Diane Brunelle said:


> Hmmm....ten dollars does not sound like very much so I'm thinking this must be 6 times a year?


You don't need to stop at $10. Heck, you can break the bank if you want. ;-) I just wanted everyone to know that every contribution will be helpful (and appreciated).


----------



## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Wow, as a field trialer, GRCA advertiser, and now (once again) a Golden owner, I feel like I'm squarely in the crosshairs on this one!

Gotta watch out for Melanie, folks. She goes around planting dogs on people and then hitting them up for money....(j/k Melanie, you know I like *my* Golden).

I'd like to know, though, has the Nov/Dec issue been sent? I took out an ad and was hoping to get a copy and see how it looks.

Amy Dahl


----------



## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Amy, it has not been maileed and I would not expect to see that for at least another month.


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Great idea Melanie!!!!!! Why didn't I think of that? I hope anyone serious about field Goldens helps out in any way they can. As Melanie stated, GRNews is a great resource and helpful for all that have an interest in "bettering the breed", especially if we get this info back in.

It's a shame that the GRCA BOD doesn't realize how important that page or two is in maintaining the Golden's purpose according to the GRCA breed standard.


John


----------



## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

"It's a shame that the GRCA BOD doesn't realize how important that page or two is in maintaining the Golden's purpose according to the GRCA breed standard."

Oh, do you mean like keeping the "retriever" in the name? It's really frustrating how little importance is given to that aspect and how much is given in other areas...they are after all, Golden RETRIEVERS, bred for that purpose originally. Oh-oh, starting to vent....

Diane


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

John Gassner said:


> Great idea Melanie!!!!!! Why didn't I think of that? I hope anyone serious about field Goldens helps out in any way they can. As Melanie stated, GRNews is a great resource and helpful for all that have an interest in "bettering the breed", especially if we get this info back in.
> 
> It's a shame that the GRCA BOD doesn't realize how important that page or two is in maintaining the Golden's purpose according to the GRCA breed standard.
> 
> ...


I dont know about serious but I did have some dogs on the list.

Hey Mel send me PM


----------



## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

This is a follow-up to Melanie's request.

The Nov/Dec issue is the Field Theme issue. It just went to bed so should be out before too long. 

The Jan/Feb issue is the National Specialty issue and I am unsure if they will have room for field stats in it as they do not want anything from the FEC for that issue. It will have information about the field work at the NS. The FEC (Field Education Committee) is working hard to put articles and information in each of the other issues which will be five during the 2008 year. The GRNews is limited to a certain number of pages. The Nov/Dec field issue needed special permission to go over that limit---also, we had twice as many ads as they usually have------Thanks to all of you field persons who pitched in to help.

Remember for some of you who are more hard core that the FEC is trying to appeal to all Golden owners and to encourage newcomers to try field work. I got involved by wanting a WC on a Golden---and look what happened to me! Addicted!

For the May/June issue '08 I am working on an article re the Goldens who were Finalists in the Master National. Also, it will include information on the Goldens who ran the '07 National Open. 

The FEC is working very hard on trying to keep "retriever" synonymous with "Golden". Sylvia is being extremely cooperative with regard to supporting us in this new venture.

Amy----I may well be hitting you up for an article or two!!!

Melanie---I am going to write you privately re some thoughts I have about getting the field stats in---maybe do it in such a way to include some photos of AA stake winners, Derby List dogs, etc. They already feature new QAA dogs. 

Glenda


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> GRCA members who have been receiving the Golden Retriever News, the bimonthly publication of the Golden Retriever Club of America, may have noticed that as of a couple of years ago, field trial placements (and JAMs) are no longer listed. The Board of Directors decided to eliminate printing this information to help cut costs. I've been meaning to do something about this for some time and now I guess it's time to stop thinking and start doing.
> 
> If our Board is not going to print the information for the membership, it's up to the field enthusiasts (and supporters of us enthusiasts ) to get this info published ourselves. *My proposal is to take out advertising space and get the field trial stats back in the GR News.*
> 
> ...


Melanie,

This is Jim using Kathy’s computer because mine died while I was away at the Snowbird trial.

I see two problems with your proposal. As respects me helping on a rainy day, apparently you have not heard that it never rains in GA.  Plus I now have renewed motivation to get out and train harder. So neither cold nor rain will deter me from training, but with cold and rain I am in doors by the fireplace.

I am now climbing up on my soap box now.

Seriously, while I would be happy to help both with the expenses and with compiling the stats, I think that you are taking the wrong approach. 

I have been very close to not renewing my membership in the GRCA for a couple years now and the next offence to the Retriever in the Golden Retriever may well be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. If memory serves we became members in 1992 although some where along the way a puppy or puppies ate the 1992 issues of the GRNews. I am looking at the Jan/Feb which includes the 1992 Specialty results. A good portion of this issue is devoted to the Specialty, but otherwise about half of the remaining content is show related. There is also a section on obedience, a section on tracking, and finally the field section. I have not problem with show coming first or being the major portion of the publication. As with the order of AKC titles, it all started with show, but at the same time, field trial was the first performance event established by the AKC and the GRCA is in fact an AKC member club, and given the we are talking about a member of the Sporting Group and more specifically, the field trial section should be second in order in the publication. Since 1992 the GRNews has added sections on tracking, and agility and the field section has been left in the back of the bus like an unwanted step child.

In 1992 although relegated to the back of the publication we did have and excellent editor of the field section in Julie Cairns and until more recently an excellent keeper of the stats in Edwina Ryska. When Julie gave up the field editor job the field section stated on a down hill slide, and when the new Year Book editor ran Edwina off we lost the field stats.

If, in fact, the GRNews editor is saying that the field trail stats was dropped to save cost that is simply BS. Maybe it has been dropped because no one is compiling the stats, but I suspect it is just another attempt by the GRCA to take the Retriever out of the breed. There are now some 64 Golden Retriever clubs around the country, repeat 64 RETRIEVER clubs. How many host a field trial? To my knowledge only the St Louis club. How many hold hunt tests? Maybe four or five at most. That should be a disgrace to the GRCA.

My suggestion would be to compile a list of GRCA members who do run field trials plus any others interested in the stats. Seek their support to include their names in a letter to the editor of the GRNews positioning the editor to reinstate the stats along with your offer to compile the stats. I cannot believe that there are more people involved in tracking than in field trials and the tracking section is still being published.

I suspect that the editor of the GRNews and the BOD of the GRCA are so far removed from the Retriever part of the breed that they simple have no idea of how many people are involved. I cannot believe that there are more people involved in tracking than in field trials and the tracking section is still being published. Therefore, I have to believe that a position with enough names and especially with a few key names like Judy Rasmuson, Roger Fuller and John Gassner would be sufficient to get the FT stats reinstated. If you are willing to draft the letter you are most welcome to put my name on the list. If that does not achieve the results, I am ready to take my membership fee and meager contributions and go elsewhere.. 

Jim Pickering


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

kpick52 said:


> Melanie,
> 
> This is Jim using Kathy’s computer because mine died while I was away at the Snowbird trial.
> 
> ...


I will agree with Jim's rant at the lack of participation with regards to field work. John Gassner was the past President of the St. Louis club and I have just finished my second term on the BOD. We have a few other members that DO FT and some do HT. The rest are looking only to do the WC/WCX to show the dog will still retrieve. I don't belong to the GRCA and maybe I should but its had to get a warm feeling with the current level of GRCA's participation in Field work. 

I remember a specialty and met the FT chairperson. She was very nice and seemed very interested as this was the first FT she had attended.


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2007)

kpick52 said:


> Therefore, I have to believe that a position with enough names and especially with a few key names like Judy Rasmuson, Roger Fuller and *John Gassner* would be sufficient to get the FT stats reinstated.


Now that's funny right there. 

I would like to clarify something. The editor of the GR News has nothing to do with the field trial stats being omitted. That was a decision made by the Board. Sylvia (editor) is just an employee doing her job. She has always been very supportive of the field folks.

Glenda, these pages will be paid advertising, and just like any other paid ad, there is no reason they would/could not be included in the Jan/Feb issue. 

Thanks to everyone who has offered their support so far. Now Mouth, I mean sweetness, do what you do best and get the word out.

Melanie


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

kpick52;225128
I suspect that the editor of the GRNews and the BOD of the GRCA are so far removed from the Retriever part of the breed that they simple have no idea of how many people are involved. I cannot believe that there are more people involved in tracking than in field trials and the tracking section is still being published. Therefore said:


> Jim, if you add in all of the people running Golden Retriever's in Hunt Test's, the list would be huge. There is no way that there are more Golden Retiever's in Tracking than in Field Events.
> 
> And I still giggle when I read the first line of the GRCA's main objectives to recognize the GR as a gun dog. Talk about a disfunctional family.


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2007)

One more thing.  Jim and everyone, the field trial statistics summary will still be published. The person doing the job was not able to continue, but a new "statistician" has been found.

What I find frustrating is what Glenda references, that the Board has chosen to omit columns that are not related to the National Specialty in the Jan/Feb issue. That is the issue most frequently held onto and referred back to because of the Specialty coverage. When I went and purchased back issues, it was those I purchased. If the FT stats had not been included, that would have meant having to buy an extra issue for each year just to see which dogs had accumulated points that year.  I will be lobbying to see if we can at least get the summary back into that main issue.

Let's not turn this into a Board bashing thread. Let's show them there is still interest in seeing not only a FT summary, but the listing of placements/JAMs. Oh, and these pages will clearly state they are paid advertisements by field enthusiasts and not paid for by the GRCA. I will ask Sylvia for a politically correct way to say that, but still makes the point.


----------



## Troopers Mom (Nov 19, 2005)

When we first started getting the GRCA magazine, all I saw was an emphasis on conformation dogs. I asked Gregg where did they talk about the smart red dogs? We have been running red dogs in HT since 1999. Now we are also running a few in FT as well. I tend to agree with Jim on this problem of lack of coverage. We should NOT have to pay for coverage. There is way too much BS about conformation and like most publications, there is bias. 

By the way, when does the Nov/Dec issue come out? Has anyone received it yet?

Arleen


----------



## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Hello!
Just my rambling thoughts here. In my opinion, the GRCA & GRNews of today is doing MUCH more to promote goldens in the field than they have ever done. I too first joined the GRCA in 1992, that's when I got my first golden. Just think, there are issues dedicated to field goldens, performance goldens, new features for goldens with field titles, etc. These are new within the past few years.
I agree that concerned golden owners and club members should petition the board to reinstate the field trial stats....and are the hunt test results (for Senior & Master) still published too? I am not against taking out ads to display the field trial results but there's no reason to spend money if we can convince the board to publish them again.
Personally I think it is silly that they publish the conformation stats, since they are so dynamic, getting them once every other month, and at least 4 months behind date, is pointless. But they actually do become very interesting when you go back years later and can pick a point in history and see who was ranked. For this same reason, the field trial stats are equally valuable. Maybe instead of several pages of field stats from each field trial, the goal would be accomplished by having a one-page stat sheet for field trials, just like the "Top Dog" page for conformation goldens.
Boycotting the GRCA/GRNews won't help AT ALL. Why not become an active participant and work for changing how it is now? 
--Anney
(active member of the Mid-Florida Golden Retriever Club -- we put on TWO AKC hunt tests a year plus a WC/WCX)
& "Fisher" too 
Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UD TD RE JH WCX VCX


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

> I would like to clarify something. The editor of the GR News has nothing to do with the field trial stats being omitted. That was a decision made by the Board. Sylvia (editor) is just an employee doing her job. She has always been very supportive of the field folks.


OK, I stand corrected, again.  My apolopies to Sylvia. So lets tar and feather the BOD. I am not trying to start a war with the show folks or the BOD. Only expressing my frustration that the Retriever part of a very versitle retriever breed does not get more emphsis by the National club.

Now that I have stirred the pot, I wish I have used Kathy's screen name and not mentioned mine. 

kpick52 :twisted:


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Anney, spot on! Ditto for Melanie, Dianne, Glenda, Arleen, Steve and Jim.

We all want and see the need for GRNews to again publish these results. 

Terry Thornton explained the cut to me a couple of years ago while she was still on the board. Melanie is correct in that Sylvia is just following her marching orders. 

Sylvia and GRNews have absolutely been wonderful in featuring field Goldens and publishing articles about field goldens and their achievements. This continues to get better. Now we just need to get the FT results in their entirety back in every issue.

Melanie has come up with or at least expressed an idea to get these results included. This is just a means to an end. We do not hope to have to do this forever. Hopefully it is just a short term solution that will help unify the faithful field followers that wish to follow the fetes of their faithful four-footed friends! 

By showing the GRCA BOD the intense interest in field by more than just a few, we can make these changes.

Not all of the Board are totally clueless or indifferent to the field world. Unfortunately some are and this is why I scrutinize the ballots for any field history before casting my vote.

I encourage Steve and anyone else that is not a GRCA member to become one and for Jim and friends like him to remain. Members will have more clout and voice, period.

Results like this weekend at Snowbird show that this breed might be smaller in numbers than others but is a force to not take too lightly.

Good luck to everyone this year. Hope to see you and your dogs names listed every issue in GRNews field results (ad)!!!!!


John

How was that sweentess?


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2007)

John Gassner said:


> How was that sweentess?


Pretty good , but remember, money talks so stop fooling around on the computer and go do some fund raising! I've got my stack of 2007 RFTN right here and am ready to start typing.

Folks, we may end up needing $1,000 to get this project done. Please forward either my initial post or a link to this thread to friends who may be interested in contributing.

Thanks!


----------



## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Hey Melanie, if you need someone to do ad layout please let me know, I'd be happy to. I've done a few ads for the GRNews, on good communication with Sylvia. Including an ad in the upcoming field dog issue (not for Fisher but for his brothers  )
Thanks,
Anney


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2007)

Furball said:


> Hey Melanie, if you need someone to do ad layout please let me know, I'd be happy to. I've done a few ads for the GRNews, on good communication with Sylvia. Including an ad in the upcoming field dog issue (not for Fisher but for his brothers  )
> Thanks,
> Anney


Hi Anney,

Thanks for the offer, but there won't be too much layout work necessary. We'll keep this fairly no frills like the results used to be printed. That way it will be a seamless transition to when the BOD approves the inclusion of the results in the future. 

Of course, y'all won't mind if I bold the Firemark dogs now, will you? ;-)

And John, I hope you have convinced Andy to send a donation. I would _hate _for any of Jake's placements to inadvertently be omitted!

A little power is a wonderful thing...even if it's in my own little make believe world.


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Hey Mel (Marky told me you don't like Y or ie at the end of names) you won't see much of Jake for this year. He hasn't finished a trial since June and couldn't make it past the 6th series in the two he did run. His injury continues to get better, just not quickly enough for any of us (or Jake).

I'm not sure about Andy and $$$$. He is spending all his free time and money on health fitness. He's doing 2.5 miles a day outside and just spent all his extra money buying a treadmill. Was he out of breath/shape in California? This puts a whole new meaning on National training.


John


----------



## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> Of course, y'all won't mind if I bold the Firemark dogs now, will you? ;-)


ASSuming an awful lot, aren't we?


----------



## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

John Gassner said:


> Hey Mel (Marky told me you don't like Y or ie at the end of names)


Hey, Johnny! Let's see,......................if she takes the ie off of "Melanie", what's that leave you? 

BTW, what was edited by advice from legal council? And might I hazard a guess who that council might be?

Oh, and if they're worried about having a problem with "not enough room" in the Nat'l Specialty issue this year, there should be surplus room leftover where the field trial portion is concerned................there weren't a whole bunch of pictures taken, at all the stakes, and pretty sure none taken of the placement and Jam dogs. (at least, not like we've seen in past Specialty issues.)


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2007)

Bait said:


> ASSuming an awful lot, aren't we?


Actually, I had assumed, or at least hoped, there would be a little more outpouring of support. A wopping total of four people have expressed interest in donating to the project.


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2007)

Bait said:


> BTW, what was edited by advice from legal council?


He just changed the wording about the NationalS because John couldn't type it right.  It is a special relationship between John and his _counsel_ and they just get more and more alike every day. Like two peas in a pod.


----------



## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> Of course, y'all won't mind if I bold the Firemark dogs now, will you? ;-)


ASSuming an awful lot, aren't we?


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> He just changed the wording about the NationalS because John couldn't type it right.  It is a special relationship between John and his _counsel_ and they just get more and more alike every day. Like two peas in a pod.



Hey Melan__ is the slam directed toward me or Andy????? Maybe one of us should be flattered???!!!! I'm guessing Andy!!!!!!!!!!!

Johnnie boyyyyy


----------



## Kevin WI (Mar 14, 2003)

I only own Field Goldens, but do not belong to GRCA so I'm not sure what's all included in the newsletter. However I surely hope its not stats on how fluffy did in the show ring. Goldens were bred for hunting..as RETRIEVERS....and the organization should acknowledge that fact and at the least be printing stats on hunt trials & tests for bettering the breed.


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Flowageboy said:


> I only own Field Goldens, but do not belong to GRCA so I'm not sure what's all included in the newsletter. However I surely hope its not stats on how fluffy did in the show ring. Goldens were bred for hunting..as RETRIEVERS....and the organization should acknowledge that fact and at the least be printing stats on hunt trials & tests for bettering the breed.



...you should check the GRCA News out....become a member and support all that Golden Retrievers do....making sure that the field venue including "Field Trial Golden Retrievers" are supported.


----------



## john h. (Oct 15, 2007)

I heard the St. Louis Golden Club has cancelled the spring trial. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## Guest (Dec 4, 2007)

Flowageboy said:


> I only own Field Goldens, but do not belong to GRCA so I'm not sure what's all included in the newsletter.


It will be difficult to elicit support from the Board for opinions of non-members. We would love you to join us in our cause by joining the GRCA though.

Melanie


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

john h. said:


> I heard the St. Louis Golden Club has cancelled the spring trial. Can anyone confirm?


It has been cancelled this year due to our trial week falling on Easter. Almost impossible to get help. Jake's first Am win was at our last Easter trial. I remember it fondly, my wife and daughters have a different view. 

We may still have a trial later in the year.


John


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Flowageboy said:


> I only own Field Goldens, but do not belong to GRCA so I'm not sure what's all included in the newsletter. However I surely hope its not stats on how fluffy did in the show ring. Goldens were bred for hunting..as RETRIEVERS....and the organization should acknowledge that fact and at the least be printing stats on hunt trials & tests for bettering the breed.


Even though the GRNews has not quite reached its full potential for field reporting it is still probably the best breed magazines if not the best. It is more like a book. Great health articles, AKC news and lots of info on training and results from various events that the breed participates in. It is worth the price of membership to GRCA alone.


John


----------



## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Hey, Guys!!! Why don't you wait a bit before you start bashing the GRNews and the Board. Sylvia has been wonderful to work with in regard to the Field Theme Issue and very, very encouraging about projects and articles I have brought up to her. The Board has been great in that they are so pleased with the response to the Field Theme Issue (Nov/Dec) that they have voted to make it the theme issue for the '08 Nov/Dec issue.

If you read the newsletters for the other breed Clubs, there is considerably less time and attention given to the field activities than we have and are hoping to have in the future.

Some of the articles that are on the docket: Three by Jackie Mertens; a two parter on Force Fetch; the Master National; The National Open; hunting with your Golden---these are real hunters not a photo op; the right start for training your pup for hunting; some statistics and information provided by the above Jim Pickering!; interviews with some highly thought of pros re field trials and hunt tests; I hope to get an article or two from Amy; info re hunt tests; and I have a large file drawer filled with others. 

I don't think anyone on here could claim I am not a "hard core" field trialer. I train almost daily even tho it often consists only of myself and my dogs when at home. I hit a lot of trials and I have judged a fair amount. I have had one AFC and three FC/AFCs and hope to have more---lots of QAAs and MHs. I am very pleased with the reception the ideas of the recently formed Field Education Committee have received from the Board. We have our own web page with quite a few articles on it already; numbers to call for help re any field aspects with your Golden; a list of recommendations for books, videos, etc. re field work. The Board is backing us in our plans to do a DVD on field work.

A new Field Statistician has just been designated by the Board. I was just speaking to her tonight and will be sending her my AKC stats re field trials which she will then compare to the ones from RTF. 

I think it is terrific if you want to take out an ad re the field stats, but I don't think it is fair to jump on the Board which has been doing what the majority of its readers support, which is conformation. If we want to get a bigger showing, we need to show more support rather than less. The Board was amazed at how many field persons took out ads for the N/D issue---that's what gives us clout! 

Ask not what your breed Club can do for you, ask what you can do for your breed Club!!! Be part of the solution, write some articles re Goldens and the field and send them to me; take out ads in the GRN showing your dogs working in the field; offer to give a seminar for your breed Club on field work and getting started; mentor newcomers and help them to get a foot in the door; be positive in your suggestions; set up training days for Club members so they can find out what field work is all about; don't knock those who do conformation but encourage them to take part in a field day----don't make nasty remarks about "fluffy" dogs but stress their good aspects and encourage more involvement in the field by their owners. Run for the Board. Run for office in your Breed Club---gut it out and dig deep and make a difference by taking the high road.

I got involved in field work because I wanted a WC on my OTCH/TD Golden that was sired by a SDHF Champion and out of a Champion bitch. She produced my AFC/MH Luke and got me started. It is easy to knock things, but much harder to try to improve them.

If you really feel strongly about Goldens being "primarily a hunting dog" then do something that makes a difference.

Glenda


----------



## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

Sheesh, Glenda, that was a wonderful post. I've been sort of floundering for comments, and you pretty well hit all of my points. I think we (the FEC) have recieved wonderful support from the board. It was up to us to come up with goals, tasks to accomplish them, and then implement them (and you Glenda have been a major force in getting the articles together and on the docket for printing). The upcoming field issue didn't happen without a lot of groundwork. Folks should wait a year and watch what's coming in the GR News before complaining too loudly. This doesn't happen over night and we've been very active for over a year now. Measure the change in our web page, which is where we started. 

If FT stats are a major issue, then contact the board directly. I've been doing it for a number of years and always found board members willing to discuss issues, and usually they will actively solicit input if they know you are interested. Sign up for the board email list and watch their progress! Comment to them directly! 

And watch the GR News - there will be field material present. Submit some yourselves!


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Glenda you are right on as always. I agree with everything except your defense of the board. The GRNews has always been mostly about conformation. I don't expect that to change. However, there is NO excuse for their reasoning for trimming the FT stats because of space. None!

Your biggest fan

John


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Great post, Glenda...

Judy


----------



## 2goldens (Jan 16, 2005)

The GRCA Code of Ethics and the Bylaws both state that the objects of the Club shall be: To recognize that the Golden Retriever is a gun dog.......that is the very first paragraph.

I have had a Golden since 1977 and competed in obedience for years, until I was introduced to field fun over 12 years ago. I have competed in both AKC and UKC Hunt tests since then. And, now am sticking my toe in the water for field trials.

For the life of me, I have a very difficult time with the division in the breed. And, I cannot understand how little importance is given to field events in the GRCA magazine. It makes me very sad.

After reading the comments by all, I have to say I really agree with Jim's remarks. I think it is BS that the breed club disregards the importance of the field accomplishments. 

But, after reading Glenda's post, I am more encouraged that there may be a change in the future.


----------



## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

One thing with a Board, the membership on it is constantly changing, and items that originally were dropped can always be reinstated. If you feel strongly about the stats being reinstated, than write to the Board about it and get others to join you in writing. Or better yet, run for the Board.

To be honest, I never really read the stats in the GRNews other than a quick glance because I get RTF, RFTNews, AKC stats, Entry Express, and now have Judy Chute!!!! All the stats in every venue are dated due to the time lag between when the events occur and the deadlines for publishing. Before I ran field trials, I never looked at field stats. I don't normally look at the ones for conformation. I skim over the ones for obedience and agility as some of the dogs listed go back to my boys.

If you want the stats on Goldens in a more up to date manner, why not approach the Board about them appearing on the GRCA web site. This way they could be entered as they occurred. You could add a photo of any Golden that won a stake and list the k9data source for their pedigree. It is an excellent web site and the Board has been most accommodating in regard to working with the FEC on their web page. If you approach the Board with a solid proposal and details of how it would be done, they would be apt to listen.
Also, you could list Goldens that had completed hunt test titles at the same time.

Hi John---Andy and I had a long discussion about you at the National! It was a real eye opener!! Next time you are going to have to come along to defend yourself. Andy did promise me, though, that Jake is almost socialized enough for me to take him over. I really can't understand why it has taken you two such a long, long time to get him through basics! As far as the Board excusing their actions re dropping field stats, ----have you heard the term "benevolent despot"--- and I did write about it at the time saying I thought it should be kept.

Glenda


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

First of all I am a member of the GRCA board, and not a very politically correct person as Glenda can attest. ANd yes I have a breed dog that is shown, who also participates in hunt tests and I hunt with. So with that being said some of your comments I do take offence too quite frankly. I receive as a unpaid board member up to 300 to 400 e-mails and letters a week that concern our breed that need to be addressed, and spend upwards of 25 hours a week on club business. Anyone want my job? Feel free to run, we have a election coming up soon. I also am the board liaison to the FEC committee that Glenda refers to. And as a group they are working there tail off to put the retriever back into the breed, and the board supports their efforts 100 percent..

As you are aware a magazine or club is a business. The ads that appear in the magazine support the magazine. If you’re a breed person and take out 95% of the ads in a issue of the GR news how do you think that issue will be slanted? Advertise/contribute then you will have a say on content. The GRCA does not have the money to lose on every issue just because you feel it should have more field content.

The club is driven by its members and their input and idea’s. As a board member our job is to implement the members wants. Some of us are trying to go out of the box regarding the club and bringing the division of the breed closer together, but to be honest reading some of what has been written in this line of posts leaves me thinking that am I wasting my time. Once again participate in your local club activities, get involved.

The reason that hunt tests are not offered as much as I feel they should be is a simple one. No help. The GRCA requires several items for GRCA events. Breed show, WC/WCX, Field Trial. To name several.
It takes a ton of people to put on one of these events, so feel free to volunteer next time to help out at a club in your area even if you do not belong to that organization..Maybe they will have the people to put on the hunt test. It’s not like they do not want to.

The reason Field trial stats were discontinued in the magazine is really a simple one. It was not a slight to the people participating in these events, it was really because all the stats are done by individuals voluntarily. Sometimes they are not all that timely. The Field Trial news was doing a much better job at this then was the GR News so it was a no brainer decision to discontinue posting them. I would like to see them included and maybe with your input that will happen. It will not happen if you do not get involved.

In closing support your local club. Change is done from within a organization, not from the pages of a training forum.

Dana


----------



## Beverly Burns (Apr 20, 2006)

I share in the dissappointment of losing the pages dedicated to field trial accomplishments. In August, I e-mailed Ann Strathern to see what direction may be taken to reviltilize those few pages and volunteered my limited computer use to be the one to take it on again. Ann directed me to several others who were the decision making "powers that be" and again it was blamed on money. She said that she would take that informationto the board meeting at the Specialty in September so I compiled stats from three months of Field Trail News and e-mailed them to her to take along.The field trail statisticain job was open, as I knew, but taking it on didn't mean that those pages were to be included. Actualy, the job was everything but that. I always wait in anticipation for the GRCA News because every once in awhile you have a little luck in getting some points or Jams or all age qualified dogs and love the press. You have to look through lots of pages of "other stuff" to find our tiny list of accomplishments and I indicated the need to have ALL placements and Jams listed for Derby, Qualifying, Amateur, and Open stakes listed by club trials. Those of you who play this difficult game realize that finishing a major stake is a source of pride and getting a 3rd or 4th in a Q is also quite an accomplishment. Those bits of information don't get in the GRCA News any longer. The answer was given to me that they are already printed in the the Field Trial News and by the time they would get into the GRCA News, it's already untimely and redundant. We Don't Care! Not all Golden folks subscribe to the Field Trail News anyway. Lets keep pushinf for it in anyway that we can.


----------



## Goldenboy (Jun 16, 2004)

Dana O said:


> First of all I am a member of the GRCA board, and not a very politically correct person as Glenda can attest. ANd yes I have a breed dog that is shown, who also participates in hunt tests and I hunt with. So with that being said some of your comments I do take offence too quite frankly. I receive as a unpaid board member up to 300 to 400 e-mails and letters a week that concern our breed that need to be addressed, and spend upwards of 25 hours a week on club business. Anyone want my job? Feel free to run, we have a election coming up soon. I also am the board liaison to the FEC committee that Glenda refers to. And as a group they are working there tail off to put the retriever back into the breed, and the board supports their efforts 100 percent..
> 
> As you are aware a magazine or club is a business. The ads that appear in the magazine support the magazine. If you’re a breed person and take out 95% of the ads in a issue of the GR news how do you think that issue will be slanted? Advertise/contribute then you will have a say on content. The GRCA does not have the money to lose on every issue just because you feel it should have more field content.
> 
> ...




I disagree. This forum is the best place for this discussion to be waged. This is a place for retriever training and competition enthusiasts. Those who are participating in this discussion share a common interest, yet live in different parts of the country. This is where ideas are formed into actions that may lead to change. And you, as a self-professed "not a very politically correct person", should encourage this free and open discourse, not look to supress it because it may tweak someone's overly-sensitive sensibilities. No one here has written anything defamatory or mean-spirited. 

I submit that most of the people engaged in this discussion "walk the walk" and have worked tirelessly on a club, local, and national level to promote the retriever pursuits, and the golden retriever in particular. I, personally, detest the "then why don't you do it" argument when someone's role or actions for an organization are questioned. Especially when the questions are as constructive, and benign, as these are. 

Thanks for your input,

Mark Isenberg


----------



## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

A little outside input from another "minority" owner....I'd think it would be important to include the FT stats regardless of how much advertising the show folks pay for. I have seen the GRCA magazine and it's a quality publication but not ALL the editorial content should be driven by advertising revenue. There needs to be some separation of editorial vs. advertising--it lends credence to the editorial content and surely this is better for the breed? And perhaps more field people would advertise if they had a regular page of stats/brags.

Our American Chesapeake Club publication (also a bi-monthly) has regular pages devoted to FT placings by CBRs, thanks to dedicated volunteers that compile/submit the info (thank you to the current volunteer, Carol Knapp). Granted it is smaller than the show news, but show people in general seem to be better at promoting their dogs than field trialers. Our publication is not as fancy as the GRCA news, but, it does not have any advertising except classifieds. I think it is a mistake to exclude the info. as many besides the hard core FT people who read about it here and in RFTN are interested in seeing which dogs excel in the tough and often thankless game of FTs. I suspect even some of the breed people would like to see it return.


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

Just a couple of items I picked out.
And for the record I am fighting very hard to include more field work in the GR News, and getting more people involved in field work.


I may be a little sensetive to these comments but I really do not see these as constructive.


"I suspect that the editor of the GRNews and the BOD of the GRCA are so far removed from the Retriever part of the breed that they simple have no idea of how many people are involved." 

I run hunt tests as do most of the board members. Two who are field trial judges.


"It's a shame that the GRCA BOD doesn't realize how important that page or two is in maintaining the Golden's purpose according to the GRCA breed standard."

Have you been reading the GR News lately? Reading hot topics? Seen the letter the GRCA sent out to breed judges regarding over done coat? And to also put something out there how many of you have participated in the CCA program to see if your dogs are to the standard?

"but I suspect it is just another attempt by the GRCA to take the Retriever out of the breed."

I can not even comment on this one.


"And I still giggle when I read the first line of the GRCA's main objectives to recognize the GR as a gun dog. Talk about a disfunctional family."

As with any club there are problems. The BOD is working to rectify a lot of these. Please give credit where credit is do.


"So lets tar and feather the BOD."

I am hoping this was made in Jest.

"there weren't a whole bunch of pictures taken"

I took a bunch and sent them to Sylvia for inclusion in the National issue. There was also a paid photographer there that the participants could purchase photo's and they could submit them to the GR News if they wanted.


"I surely hope its not stats on how fluffy did in the show"

How do you expect to help close the gap regarding the division of the breed with statements like this? I am very proud of my Fluffy. Can you say your dogs are CH's, run hunt tests, have a WCX, obed. titles, a VC. and are better then average pheasant dogs?Are not Goldens supposed to be multi-purpose.?


Dana


----------



## Goldenboy (Jun 16, 2004)

Dana O said:


> Just a couple of items I picked out.
> And for the record I am fighting very hard to include more field work in the GR News, and getting more people involved in field work.
> 
> Dana



Thanks. I encourage and respect every golden owner who seeks a JH or WC or who hunts with their golden. 

Julie, good points and good post.


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Dana wrote...."Are not Goldens supposed to be multi-purpose.?"

Yes...and that is why I love the breed so...

Judy


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Dana O said:


> First of all I am a member of the GRCA board, and not a very politically correct person as Glenda can attest. ANd yes I have a breed dog that is shown, who also participates in hunt tests and I hunt with. So with that being said some of your comments I do take offence too quite frankly. I receive as a unpaid board member up to 300 to 400 e-mails and letters a week that concern our breed that need to be addressed, and spend upwards of 25 hours a week on club business. Anyone want my job? Feel free to run, we have a election coming up soon. I also am the board liaison to the FEC committee that Glenda refers to. And as a group they are working there tail off to put the retriever back into the breed, and the board supports their efforts 100 percent..
> 
> As you are aware a magazine or club is a business. The ads that appear in the magazine support the magazine. If you’re a breed person and take out 95% of the ads in a issue of the GR news how do you think that issue will be slanted? Advertise/contribute then you will have a say on content. The GRCA does not have the money to lose on every issue just because you feel it should have more field content.
> 
> ...



So I guess here is the rub with me. You say I (we) should be more involved. I was on the St. Louis Golden club board for 2 terms. Co- chaired a few trials, Judged the wc/wcx work every trial and help every non field person train with their dog. John and I were even meeting weekly to work on FF and other retrieving issue. I ask for nothing in return. It sad the GR news can not spare a 3inch by 2 in space for all of us lowly FT folks. This is just another reason for the field and show folks to become more divided. It was said it is a business that caters to consumers, well I will make it easy the FT news will keep my business. I was actually going to send some money because Melanie and a few of the FT folks supported it. Even though the FT news and FT and HT look at the Golden as a minority they still report our accomplishments. The sad thing is that the Golden is the breed I choose even if it may not be the best dog for the game a few of us who love the breed still do it. Its to bad the folks that should be cheering for the Golden the loudest DONT.


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

First, Glenda, I am now in need of the red faced icon..LOL 

..then to the reason for this post..Glenda wrote ..

.."If you want the stats on Goldens in a more up to date manner, why not approach the Board about them appearing on the GRCA web site. This way they could be entered as they occurred. You could add a photo of any Golden that won a stake and list the k9data source for their pedigree. It is an excellent web site and the Board has been most accommodating in regard to working with the FEC on their web page. If you approach the Board with a solid proposal and details of how it would be done, they would be apt to listen.
Also, you could list Goldens that had completed hunt test titles at the same time." ...

 Once again...this Forum's discussion is coming up with positive solutions and ideas..and facts that many are possibly ? not aware of. 

Dana....you have to appreciate this ?


----------



## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

I can appreciate "Goldenboy's" comments about waging a discussion in an open forum like this. Certainly, that is the way to formulate a "plan" for finding a remedy for a situation that is unsatisfactory, i.e. the lack of field trial results in the GRCA News.

When this decision was originally being made, a number of us wrote directly to the BOD asking that they continue this reporting there. I even suggested that the club columns be reduced so that only 1/2 the clubs report each issue. That would free up the pages needed for field trial results. Yes, the reason given for the change was space, which translated into money. 

In truth, I don't necessarily agree with that. The GRCA News shouldn't necessarily have to support itself. It is a vehicle for information and education of the GRCA. GRCA has always been a very strong national club, being in the forefront of educational efforts. 

However, Dana and Glenda are also correct. With the overall membership of GRCA so heavily weighted in favor of conformation, you are going to have a magazine that represents that sector heavily. The ads alone for conformation dogs take up what appears to be at least 1/2 the book! Neither the Editor nor the BOD dictates how many people wish to run ads or the focus of that advertising.

One tendency I notice is that the field supporters are likely to drift away from their local clubs that are heavily slanted toward conformation. I have seen this in my local club. I can understand the reasoning. Amateurs with budgeted time to train their own dogs are easily discouraged by enticing newbies to training sessions where the dogs present can be so ill-equipped to perform. The net result at our club is that there are exactly three members left who know the first thing about field work even at the most basic level. Of those three, only one has the physical health to participate. All 3 members happen to be "founding members" who were made "life members" (that means that they have been in the club for over 25 years, and were involved in Goldens for considerable years before that, so even they may not be around that much longer!)

So, Dana is also at least partially correct. It can mean some sacrifice to give up one's own training time to keep introducing new people to field work. Only one in a hundred (or less) may "survive" the initiation. However, I can think of some of those who DID survive, and have gone onto be worthy participants in FTs and HTs, and even some judges. A lot like Glenda's experience. And it is necessary to continue looking for those people!

In general, the GRCA BOD and News Editor are very supportive of publishing items regarding field. My contact with Sylvia, though she is one of those who is heavily involved in conformation, seems to reveal a genuine interest in featuring field dogs and articles. Take note of the pages devoted to Connie Cleveland's "Eli" or other notable field accomplishments. I also recall a great article on Judy Rasmussen's "Lulu" some time back. One of the "bonus" points of such articles is that they make these famous field workers come "alive" ... dispelling the misconception that these are dogs "you wouldn't want to live with." WE know better than that, but those who never meet these famous dogs do NOT know this.

If any of you have something that would make for a good article, give it a try! If you don't think you can write well enough, get a "helper" to help you put your thoughts together. There are a lot of fine trainers out there whose thoughts I would LOVE to read in the GRCA News! And something in one of those articles might just "push the button" that leads someone to learn more; or go to their first hunt test; or pick up their first stinky bird 

Finally, I've met some of you personally, and I come away with the impression that some of the finest trainers and competitors are often quite modest about their achievements and their dogs. This has got to stop! Your dogs deserve to be talked about with pride! You need to share your passion for your dogs' working ability.

I can vouch, from local experience, that the lack of hunt tests and/or field trials by local Golden clubs is at least partly a matter of manpower. I heard a comment about one GRC putting on a hunt test: they should stick to WC/Xs because a hunt test is over their heads. Duh? There was the initiative there to make the effort, a more fruitful response would have been to pitch in and teach them! And help them learn how.

And progress comes in strange ways. Recently someone reported on another list of a licensed conformation judge (Goldens & Labs) who went on a group trip to Scotland commemorating the 60th Anniversary of the GRC of Scotland. As part of the "tour", this individual participated in a hike through the lands surrounding the ruins of Lord Tweedmouth's estate. Hiking the rugged terrain with daunting cover, the person vividly came to understand what kind of dog was needed to work this kind of land! This kind of Golden Retriever was no "pansy". This was a rugged dog. The word "gentleman" has taken on a different connation in modern times. These "gentlemen" had a title, but when it came to hunting, their game was a "cash crop". With no "seasons" and bag limits, they literally killed more than a thousand birds in a year, which helped feed the people who worked on and visited the estate!

Sorry I got so "windy" on this.


----------



## Troopers Mom (Nov 19, 2005)

Steve, I totally agree with everything you said. Very well put. I was wondering that very same thing. Thank you.

Arleen


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

Steve,
I also am a member of the St. Louis Club. I know of the division to what you speak. And I am sure John and you spent many evernings pulling your hair out thinking why am I doing this. I helped judge their last two WC/WCX's. All my dogs are out of members of your club.

I also am a supporter of getting the stats in the GR News.

Do not take what I say personally as that is not the point I was trying to make. My point is that you have a lot of very dedicated people working very hard to put the retriever back into the Golden. They are not out tooting thier horn so to speak. By demeaning their efforts (and I am in this category) with statements that are based on emotions and not facts do not help the process. Serving on a board as you all know is a very thankless job. People do it because they want to give back to what they love. To say that a BOD is working against the breed they all love is just the wrong way to go about making changes.

Dana


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

I was going to let this go but I feel strongly enough that I cant. A few years back either the our local club or the GRCA had a mission statement that talked about the goal was to have a healthy dog with the instincts to hunt that met the breed standard. As far as slamming the BOD take it as you wish. I dont know any of the GRCA board members with the exception of Teri Thornton. They can do as they wish with the direction of the breed but they are loosing my support. Lets all be honest with the exception of a very small percentage of folks most dont, wont and never will hunt or compete in a field event. Thats OK by me. If the GR news for what ever reason does not want to bother with field events so be it. 

Maybe I would be better off introducing a new breed of dog. I will call it the Field Golden.


----------



## Matelite (Oct 9, 2007)

Let me know what you need or if I can help. Gale Mettenbrink


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Dana O said:


> Steve,
> I also am a member of the St. Louis Club. I know of the division to what you speak. And I am sure John and you spent many evernings pulling your hair out thinking why am I doing this. I helped judge their last two WC/WCX's. All my dogs are out of members of your club.
> 
> I also am a supporter of getting the stats in the GR News.
> ...


Dana,
I do not believe anyone was targeting the people that are trying to make a difference, but it is difficult watching the show breeders continue to warp the breed away from what it was intended. 
Look at pictures from the 30's and 40's. Few if any Golden Retriever's that were bench and field titled could even get into a ring nowdays. This is just wrong.

As far as working to promote within a local Golden club, good luck with that. That would require accepting help from non-show folk and getting down and dirty with the dogs. Until the mindset from the parent club changes, the locals will continue on their current path. Perhaps a better answer there would be to encourage Breed club members to join a working HT/FT club that is setup to train dogs for the field. NFHRA will welcome any and all to come and play.

Both of my dogs meet all of the breed standards and yet look nothing like the furballs that are paraded around the ring. And I will venture that few could work for 3 or 4 days in the field without breaking down due to there physical stature. 

I run and judge HT's and hear cracks all of the time about the furballs. Most of the time they are justified. That really makes me feel great. And when I have to judge a Golden that walks out to the bird and screws around never picking it up, it makes me very angry that this has been allowed to happen. It is painful to watch and occurs all too often in the HT game.

I hope what you are saying about change within the parent club is true. Because if not for the Jackie Merten's, Mel Foster's, Pickerings ect.,ect., none of us that hunt and HT our dogs would be able to have this discussion because we wouldn't have any thing to use.


Proud owner of 2 Golden Retriever's that do what they were bred to do, and live to do it.


----------



## dennismc115 (Dec 16, 2005)

Melanie,

I have forwarded your original post to Ginnie's email. I'm sure that you can count usin.


----------



## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Hi -- more rambling thoughts again.
We must be really spoiled here in Florida. Thanks to the tireless work of a few members, Mid-Florida GRC is VERY active in field events and we have a LOT of participation from members for our field events! We are very supportive to ANYONE trying to get a field title on their golden, and gladly accept help from ANYONE willing to come out and support our field endeavors. At our hunt tests, we have those "conformation only" people out in the field as bird boys, marshalls, making lunches, setting out signs, running coolers, etc. The only reason they are out there is because someone took the time to invite them, and they figured out how fun it could be, and how much the dogs love it. We have LOTS of people who had never ventured into the field, now training and getting JH/WC/SHR titles on their "show" goldens. You gotta start somewhere. 
Sure, if it weren't for a core group of die-hards, MFGRC would be just another golden club. We have lots of excuses why field work is difficult here (climate, alligators, urbanization) but despite all of that we have a thriving, active, enthusastic group of field golden supporters. It didn't get this way by the die-hards throwing up their hands and deciding to just take their game elsewhere and screw the rest of those fluffy owners.
I disagree that the best way to encourage the show folks to get into field work is to ship them over to a RC/HRC. Trust me, I have been there and while I've met some great folks, it is not nearly as welcoming or encouraging as having people with the same breed leading the parade. I wish more could see MFGRC's activity, and use them as a model on how to bring people into field work. 

Again, I think the GRCA is doing more now for promoting goldens in the field than ever before. Get involved at whatever level you can and get on board with it. 
--Anney
(again)


----------



## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Dana O said:


> "there weren't a whole bunch of pictures taken"
> 
> I took a bunch and sent them to Sylvia for inclusion in the National issue. There was also a paid photographer there that the participants could purchase photo's and they could submit them to the GR News if they wanted.
> Dana


Yeah, and as of yet, these pics still cannot be obtained. (Open series #1 & #4 was all he did of the Field Trial. And WC/WCX) I was meaning NO disrespect, but since you're quoting me, why not quote everything I said. I also said "ALL the stakes", and "no placement or jam dogs" -"Like other Specialty issues", Was anything I said NOT fact? I KNOW. I was there. I had two dogs finish both the AM and the Q. No pics were taken of these dogs. And I don't have a problem with it. Other specialty issues had placement dog pics. That's ALL I was saying. But, if you're gonna quote me, quote all of it. Like I said, I was meaning NO disrespect, I was just stating FACT.


----------



## Guest (Dec 4, 2007)

Bait said:


> No pics were taken of these dogs. And I don't have a problem with it.


Obviously you do have a problem with it Bait because you have brought it up to me several times already. I told you I will do whatever it takes to make sure photos are included of all the dogs who finished. I have already been in touch with Sylvia about filling in any missing pictures.

This has happened before, and with a little legwork, pictures can and will be gathered. It will all be OK. 

I'm not sure what, if anything, this has to do with gathering funds to try and get the FT stats for the last couple of years published, but I wanted to let you know you can let go of this now. ;-)

Melanie

ps BTW, having a photographer at the field trial of a National Specialty is not the responsibility of the BOD or the editor of the GRNews.


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)




----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)




----------



## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> Obviously you do have a problem with it Bait because you have brought it up to me several times already. I told you I will do whatever it takes to make sure photos are included of all the dogs who finished. I have already been in touch with Sylvia about filling in any missing pictures.
> 
> This has happened before, and with a little legwork, pictures can and will be gathered. It will all be OK.
> 
> ...


OK, Again someone else is missing the point. It was never about pics, or who is responsible for what. If you look on page three of this thread, you will see what I posted. It was in response to what Glenda wrote about it not being possible to ad the stats page in the next issue, because there wouldn't be room for it because of the specialty coverage,...........................ALL I said is there should be room because there weren't a bunch of pics taken. THAT'S ALL I SAID. AND, it is fact. Most Specialty issues have a section where there are pics of placement and jam dogs for each stake. those pics were not taken this year. I figured there's the room you need for the stats page. How did THAT get turned into a pic problem? And Melanie, NO I DON'T have a problem with it, except for the fact that(like I told you on the phone, supposedly in confidence) it was gonna be a pretty scant specialty issue-FT photowise this year.


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Steve Amrein said:


> ............." Maybe I would be better off introducing a new breed of dog. I will call it the Field Golden.


Steve..in regards to the last line of your post..

You should have a conversation with Nick Stazko.. and in addition his thoughts on a standard for breeding Golden Retrievers..vs Goldens... It was quite a piece of work..but he made a point. 

Judy


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

golden boy 2 said:


>


Hey, Mike....when we get the popcorn out here, the Golden(s) Retrievers all gather about..  ..you need /Paul to help out with this one!!...you know, the famous picture guy?


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

If this makes it to page 10, I am sending Howard a deposit on a "Bam" puppy and I will be a Lab owner.


----------



## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

...............very intersting thread to say the least..........................
I for one DID drop my membership to GRCA 3 yrs. ago for what Mr. Pickering stated.I began my membership in 1988 and run Hunt Tests, Field Trials and Obed. Trials.
I also have been a member of a couple of different Golden clubs in Wis. and the last one DID volunteer my time to totally organize a Hunt Test. My ideas were put before the board and NOthing was done. They had a tracking test or a rally test or an agility test or a boo test or some other fluffy duffy thing instead. I was so baffled that I quite.
Division of the breed?!
Really? DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!
I personally have trained and judged them, No thanks!!
And the CCA test Who cares!!
Do my Goldens look like Goldens. Hell yes. Correct bite, full dentiton, and everything.
Dana if you look at the persons responding to this "Retriever Training Forum" ,you will most likely see allot of VERY dedicated Golden Folks who have done some pretty awesome things with their dogs and who have allot of both knowledge and dedication to this breed.We whoop and holler for the fluffy's at every trial and so post it on this forum.We are just so tired of being pushed out.
Sue
Mioak's Kiefer Ginger Snap,MH,WCX, Am/Can ***(Winner of 1994 National Specialty Amat.& Top Amat. Golden in 1994.)


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

golden boy 2 said:


> If this makes it to page 10, I am sending Howard a deposit on a "Bam" puppy and I will be a Lab owner.


....no...no....NO!


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

Makes it to 11 pages, Haley goes up for sale, $500 Pick up only


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

ginger69 said:


> ...............very intersting thread to say the least..........................
> I for one DID drop my membership to GRCA 3 yrs. ago for what Mr. Pickering stated.I began my membership in 1988 and run Hunt Tests, Field Trials and Obed. Trials.
> I also have been a member of a couple of different Golden clubs in Wis. and the last one DID volunteer my time to totally organize a Hunt Test. My ideas were put before the board and NOthing was done. They had a tracking test or a rally test or an agility test or a boo test or some other fluffy duffy thing instead. I was so baffled that I quite.
> Division of the breed?!
> ...


Then help Glenda, myself and other dedicated Golden people by helping us push you back in, and make positive changes to the breed. If you get a chance when it comes out take a peek at the GRN. I think you will be very pleasently surprised by the content. Glenda and the FEC have put their heart and sole into it. The board approved the issue next year to have a field theme. Help us out, send us idea's, pictures we can use etc. Also take a look at the FEC's page on the GRCA's website. We are trying guys but being negative does not help the process.
The CCA is a fantastic program by the way. Its not an end all but certainly a big step in the right direction to make sure all Goldens measure up to the breed standard. And yes, I think some breed CH's would have a difficult time passing it.

Dana


----------



## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

golden boy 2 said:


> Makes it to 11 pages, Haley goes up for sale, $500 Pick up only


Throw in a bag of 'Ol Roy and I'll take her off your hands now.


----------



## Guest (Dec 4, 2007)

ginger69 said:


> And the CCA test Who cares!!


I do. 

I'm not sure bashing other types of events serves our cause. Hey, I'm not a big fan of Rally, but if other folks have a good time playing that game with their dogs, more power to them. But if I publicly scoff at those folks, how much support can I expect to get for my sport of choice?

This thread wasn't intended to start the show vs field argument. The idea is to show the BOD that there many members in our club interested in seeing some specific information in our club's publication. The Board's role, in addition to other things, is to listen to what the members want.

If you would like to help me show them that there a many of us interested in seeing more FT information published, please support this project. The goal is not to save the world or "fix" the split in the breed. I don't know about you all, but neither of those are on my to do list.

Thanks,

Melanie

ps We'll miss you, Castelli.


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

golden boy 2 said:


> Makes it to 11 pages, Haley goes up for sale, $500 Pick up only


I'm going to get Keith G., John Fallon, Russ, Shayne, Paul and Ken on here. I know we can make 11 pages.....and I'm closer to KC than most of you!!!


John......who has actually never done anything with or for Golden Retrievers or their owners....but does know Melanie (who started all this trouble with her crazy idea).


John


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

....."Division of the breed?!
Really? DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!" ......

I am going to try to find the article..and post it. He, I believe, was trying to make a point. And, trying to convince a GRC here in the NE to hold a Field Trial... They did hold a Sanctioned, one day event..Derby and Q. The same day...the GRCA WC, WCX was also held a few miles away...then the next year..nothing offered in the Field Trial category. 

Talk about results being printed...this was one event that the results were not put on their Web Site... I asked when they were going to be and the answer was probably not???????? So..there ya go. 

The club, though...offers lots, including eye and heart clinics, a very large Rescue...so..those interested in a Field Trial event probably have to come forward..join, work..and make a difference as stated earlier in this thread. As a few club members are just unable to do it all..as in all the venues offered. 

Well I am going out to train the Field bred pup we obtained from "ginger69" ..LOL..in the new foot + snow we got yesterday and today...Hi, Sue  

....he is giving me the look..as in why the heck are we not out training  ..the daylite is already starting to wain... And, yup, his teeth are all there, good bite, and everyone thinks he is beautiful.. The vet loves him.. Ohhhh...what an athletic boy! ..look at those calf muscles..good hips!! ... yak, yak ! Not a thing about too skinny..and you feed...what??? 

Judy


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

golden boy 2 said:


> Makes it to 11 pages, Haley goes up for sale, $500 Pick up only


Does she come with that gorgeous Mallard? That John Gassner is going to get there first...LOL


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

John Gassner said:


> I'm going to get Keith G., John Fallon, Russ, Shayne, Paul and Ken on here. I know we can make 11 pages.....and I'm closer to KC than most of you!!!
> 
> 
> John......who has actually never done anything with or for Golden Retrievers or their owners....but does know Melanie (who started all this trouble with her crazy idea).
> ...


But you know how to throw a pheasant.....

Dana


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Dana O said:


> Then help Glenda, myself and other dedicated Golden people by helping us push you back in, and make positive changes to the breed. If you get a chance when it comes out take a peek at the GRN. I think you will be very pleasently surprised by the content. Glenda and the FEC have put their heart and sole into it. The board approved the issue next year to have a field theme. Help us out, send us idea's, pictures we can use etc. Also take a look at the FEC's page on the GRCA's website. We are trying guys but being negative does not help the process.
> The CCA is a fantastic program by the way. Its not an end all but certainly a big step in the right direction to make sure all Goldens measure up to the breed standard. And yes, I think some breed CH's would have a difficult time passing it.
> 
> Dana


Sue....Wish you would jump back in...your efforts certainly would be appreciated here. You have lots to give to this arena  

Judy


----------



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

golden boy 2 said:


> Makes it to 11 pages, Haley goes up for sale, $500 Pick up only


You don't need anybody else to post to get it to 11 pages, when & if it slows down before page 11 I'll post by myself to get it to page 11 so I can buy her from Mike for $500. I did after all share the same bed with her for a couple of weeks.

Mike your check is in the mail. I'll pick Haley up on my way back from Texas. 
Now everybody join in for a nice group fluffy hug, and make nice so this thread doesn't make it to 11 pages; cause this is one lab man who would be proud to own that pretty little redhead


----------



## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> this is one lab man who would be proud to own that pretty little redhead


Uh,,,,,,,, could you make mine Jill St. John? My all time favorite redhead.

Just doing my part to make 11 regards,


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

Howard N said:


> Uh,,,,,,,, could you make mine Jill St. John? My all time favorite redhead.
> 
> Just doing my part to make 11 regards,


What about Ann Margret?


----------



## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Just doing my part to help Miss Becky buy a dog that doesn't break as much.

$500 Marsh Mop indeed regards
Bubba


----------



## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Bubba said:


> Just doing my part to help Miss Becky buy a dog that doesn't break as much.
> 
> $500 Marsh Mop indeed regards
> Bubba


Au contraire Bubba. We hardly ever have that problem anymore. 
These field trial judges are so sweet and considerate. They either let me put a leash around his neck before we honor or they wait 'til the very last when we've gone home already.
Bless their hearts regards


----------



## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

posted by Bait:
I was meaning NO disrespect, but since you're quoting me, why not quote everything I said. I also said "ALL the stakes", and "no placement or jam dogs" -"Like other Specialty issues", 
========
In fairness to GRCA, the photographer may not have been the best. And speaking to the FT chair, Lee Herskowitz, he really had his hands full trying to keep all bases covered. This host club did need a lot of help for the FT from other surrounding clubs, and/or Golden owners who were not club members. The GRCA Natl Spec is a monumental endeavor. 

After the 2005 Natl in Gettysburg, which had quite a spectacular Natl, the then-President of Potomac had been asked if they would do it again. His response was: "Sure, in any year that doesn't begin with 20!" Even though Potomac is one of those clubs that offers quite a lot for introducing their members to field work, even they had to draw upon volunteers from local rescue clubs to help put on the field events. In return for the volunteers, they agreed to contribute $x/hour (based on the # of hours worked by the volunteers & the profit of the events) to the volunteers' charitable choice. Isn't that one great idea!? It got lots of "new" people exposed to field work AND helped both the club and the rescue organizations. 

As for the value of the CCA, one very good thing to come of it ... I have heard that several evaluators (many of whom are licensed judges) are duly impressed with the structural integrity of the dogs evaluated that come from the "field persuasion". It may take a long while before one actually notices a difference in the show ring, but it sure can't hurt to have these judges put their hands on dogs in genuine "hard, working condition" or to note the structural correctness, or correct coat quality that these dogs have to offer.


----------



## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Dana O said:


> What about Ann Margret?


I have a choice??? A teenager's dream


----------



## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

I hate being quoted especially when NOT taken completely.
Melanie daring.....
I used the rally ,agility,etc........... in a context that was to be a point used in my post. I have nothing against rally,agility,or anything else that someone wants to do with their dogs.I was making a point with regards to what the board of my past club proceeded.
Quote.............
As for the value of the CCA, one very good thing to come of it ... I have heard that several evaluators (many of whom are licensed judges) are duly impressed with the structural integrity of the dogs evaluated that come from the "field persuasion". It may take a long while before one actually notices a difference in the show ring, but it sure can't hurt to have these judges put their hands on dogs in genuine "hard, working condition" or to note the structural correctness, or correct coat quality that these dogs have to offer.
.........
"the Structural Integrity of the dogs"???"Structural Correctness" Correct Coat"???
I don't get it.Do these people think we all walk around with mongrels????
As far as coming back................????????? Hmmmmmmm...............
The jury is out on that one.
Sue


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

ginger69 said:


> I was making a point with regards to what the board of my past club proceeded.


Thanks for clarifying. Even though I have no understanding of what you just said.


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

I apologize for stirring the pot and not being here to keep it stirred. Life is a bitch. First my computer crashed and burned. I was able to commandeer the wife’s while she is away in the Big Apple, but no sooner did I get re-registered on RTF than AT&T crashed. I first thought that some show Golden person and sabotaged Kathy’s computer *(joke) *but finally decided that it was the AT&T DSL service. So I called AT&T customer service to report the problem and got the computer, punched #1 for English, #4 for a computer problem, #3 for home use, then had to listen to the sepal encouraging me to use the AT&T website for faster service. Sure thing. Finally I was able to punch #3 to be transferred to a person, only to get another recording advising that my call could not be transferred due to technical problems. I sure hope that we never have a National crisis and need phone and internet service. 

Dana do you serve on the AT&T BOD also. (joke)



> *golden boy 2 wrote: *
> If this makes it to page 10, I am sending Howard a deposit on a "Bam" puppy and I will be a Lab owner.


Write the check. I may be up all night responding. Now that I have the pot stirred I am getting out the industrial Kitchen Aid to see if I can get it whipped to form peaks. 

However, first things first. Melanie I apologize for getting your thread off track. If you are serious about buying ads to get the stats published, count me in. Six issues, six ads at $140 each would be $840 for the year. If the stats include the Snowbird trial last weekend count me in for $100 to get Buddy the hot derby dog mentioned. Of course, that is $100 that will not go to the Zeke Cancer fund, but we need to get out priorities in order right. In fact I will go you one better. I will pledge the $100 and match another $100 on the condition that if the GRCA board changes its position and agrees to start publishing the FT stats again, any remaining funds in your kitty go to the Zeke Cancer fund. That is my entire allowance for the year so if you need more I will have to get permission.

Otherwise, buckle up ladies, here it comes.

Jim Pickering


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

:BIG:

Very nice, Mr. Pickering! I will have to go reread that to figure out exactly how much you just pledged. On second thought, I'll have Pilot do that because she's pretty good with numbers. (Well, I know she at least can count to three, four on a good day. ) But it sounds great!

And thanks to everyone who has contacted me about contributing! I figure the initial run could take up to 10 pages and then 1-2 pages per issue after that so *every little bit still counts*, but perhaps some changes will be made in the near future. I would not want Mr. P to not have any money left over to go clothes shopping!


----------



## Martha Lancaster (Sep 5, 2003)

Hi, Melanie,

I am sending you $10.00 to support your idea to get the FT statistics back into the GRCA News, even if we have to pay for it. I believe that it is important to archive those statistics within the GRCA, and not leave it to the RFTN. (I am a subscriber to the RFTN, by the way). 

I am a member of the GRCA, and just got my dues renewal notice. I WILL be renewing, and sending in my $55.00 for dues & subscription to the GRCA News. 

Included in the GRCA renewal notice is a flyer asking for donations to the Golden Retriever Foundation. I will also be sending in $30.00 to the Zeke Cancer Fund, as I have friends who have lost wonderful Golden RETRIEVERS this past year to cancer. 

That's what I am able to do financially right now. 

Thanks so much for bringing up the issue on the RTF forum. I have been following this thread with interest, and would like to challenge others to join/continue membership in the GRCA, and to support the Golden Retriever Foundation as well. 

Blessings,

Martha Lancaster, Georgetown, TX


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

Martha L said:


> I have been following this thread with interest, and would like to challenge others to join/continue membership in the GRCA, and to support the Golden Retriever Foundation as well.


Music to my ears, and as I said in my PM Martha, THANKS!


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Bubba said:


> Just doing my part to help Miss Becky buy a dog that doesn't break as much.
> 
> $500 Marsh Mop indeed regards
> Bubba


Marsh Mop?? I like it! ...much better than Swamp Collie ..ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-page nine...and counting...


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

Judy,

I heard there were serious rumors that you weren't going to be allowed to post on this thread again until you committed to a pledge. And I'm not kidding, these were like, serious, rumors! I am not one to kid about this kind of stuff!


----------



## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Martha L said:


> Hi, Melanie,
> 
> I am sending you $10.00 to support your idea to get the FT statistics back into the GRCA News, even if we have to pay for it. I believe that it is important to archive those statistics within the GRCA.....
> 
> ...


Martha...Thank you soooooooooo much for putting this thread back on track and confirming to the rest of us that a contribution of any amount will help out. 

Now the rest of you....please commit to help is some way!


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

ginger69 said:


> ..............."the Structural Integrity of the dogs"???"Structural Correctness" Correct Coat"???
> I don't get it.Do these people think we all walk around with mongrels????
> As far as coming back................????????? Hmmmmmmm...............
> The jury is out on that one.
> Sue


Well...look at Val Ducross with "Push"...Dual Champion, FTCH, AFTCH Firemark’s Push Comes To Shove, Am. ***

How often do you see this? 

So, yes..the more field results, pictures of the retrievers themselves, field training articles..etc ..that are printed in the GRCA News...the better. They are impressive to see and make the News whole..in the context of the Golden Retriever. 

.."I don't get it.Do these people think we all walk around with mongrels????" ..

Well? ...if that question crosses you mind ..then you should definitely come back..the jury has just spoken on this one! 

..."serious rumors that you weren't going to be allowed to post on this thread again "...  Hey..where is a good lawyer when I need one? John?.. can you refer me to a good lawyer?..prefer one that owns a Golden Retriever..oh, you know.."field type"  

Judy


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

1st off has Mike called Howard about his Bam pup?

2nd I know that Melan is daring (per Sue).

3rd Can we just send the money in with a note in our GRCA dues envelope?

4th I really like the idea of sending the money to Melan and letting the BOD know that any leftover money will go to the Zeke fund or some other worthwhile fund. This way maybe they will fix it sooner rather than later.

5th Is there a major snowstorm that has knocked out power in the NE..... like Vermont? Certain normally vocal voices from up that way being very silent!

6th Dana read your pms and call me!

7th Just a few more posts and I will own Haley!!!!! Andy do you want in for 50%? She might make an OK dog with a little training.

John the pheasant chucker/pickerupper


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Melanie Foster said:


> Judy,
> 
> I heard there were serious rumors that you weren't going to be allowed to post on this thread again until you committed to a pledge. And I'm not kidding, these were like, serious, rumors! I am not one to kid about this kind of stuff!


Thought that our contribution would be "understood"..without saying...  I really like "Mr Pickering's" idea..

Now....can I get off track again?  ? 

TEN..and Counting!!!!  "Haley" is really going to like it here..she can push three "boys" around to her hearts delight!!! ...and, of course, they will be in 7th heaven..LOL ! OOOPs, there I go..off track again ...red faced icon.. (someone please help with my icons!  ..)


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

John Gassner said:


> 1st off has Mike called Howard about his Bam pup?
> 
> 2nd I know that Melan is daring (per Sue).
> 
> ...


HA..HA....HA...HA....HA ..submitting ....are we at 11? ..let's see....here we go.. 

shoot  Oh, well...good post John.


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

Glenda and Dana, I did not make my post to dump on anyone in particular, I was simply expressing my opinions based on reading the GRNews for close to 15 years. I am sorry that either or both of you chose to take my remarks personal, but I do think that it is a crying shame that members of a Retriever club have to purchase ad space to get the field trial stats published.



> *Glenda Brown *
> Hey, Guys!!! Why don't you wait a bit before you start bashing the GRNews and the Board.


The fact is Glenda I have been reading the GRNews and waiting for almost 15 years and what I have seen is a steady decline in emphasis on the Retriever part of the Golden Retriever by the GRCA. I will readily admit that I am not privy to the inner circle of the GRCA so the only way I have to asses the GRCA is through its publication, the GRNews. No one will be more pleased than me if your field education committee or some other monumental event can begin to reverse the decline in emphasis, but I am not optimistic and will believe it only when I see it happen.



> *Glenda wrote:*
> I think it is terrific if you want to take out an ad re the field stats, but I don't think it is fair to jump on the Board which has been doing what the majority of its readers support, which is conformation. If we want to get a bigger showing, we need to show more support rather than less. The Board was amazed at how many field persons took out ads for the N/D issue---that's what gives us clout!





> *Dana wrote:*
> As you are aware a magazine or club is a business. The ads that appear in the magazine support the magazine. If you’re a breed person and take out 95% of the ads in a issue of the GR news how do you think that issue will be slanted? Advertise/contribute then you will have a say on content. The GRCA does not have the money to lose on every issue just because you feel it should have more field content.


I do want to thank you both for making my point. I should rest my case here, but that would be no fun.

The GRCA is arguably the most viable breed club in the country and maybe the world. There is no doubt that the GRNews is by far the premier breed publication. However, the Golden Retriever is, in fact, one of the retriever breeds recognized by the AKC, the GRCA is a member club of the AKC and the ultimate accomplishments of a retriever as recognized by the AKC are the FC and AFC titles, i.e. the FC and AFC titles and retriever ability of the Golden Retriever should be on a par with conformation. That is simply not the case nor has it been for the past 40 years if it ever was.

I look back at the history of the GRCA and the Golden Retriever via the GRCA Year Books (and the Year Books is another burr under my saddle with the GRCA) and other publications and as best I can tell there was one breed of Golden Retriever until the early 1970s. There are a few FC and AFC Golden Retrievers today that look like the Dual CH Golden Retrievers of the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s but nothing at all like the CH Goldens today. No all, but some of the FC and AFC Golden Retrievers today certainly conform to the breed standard but not the show type.

I play at the field trial game, not well, but I try. I certainly know about the demand of the extremes in the sport, and I could almost understand that it was the demands of the show ring that pushed the conformations folks to move away from the retriever to accomplish their goal of winning in the show ring. I say almost for this reason. To achieve a CH title a Golden need only defeat other Goldens. That is, if they were all dark red and had yellow eyes there would no fewer CH Goldens. Therefore, I need someone to explain to me why there was a need to take the breed “type” in a different direction. I am just wondering Dana if you do you realize that to earn the FC and/or AFC titles a Golden Retriever must compete against and defeat retriever of all breeds.

I am very much aware that the conformation folks dominate the GRCA membership. When last I did the tally a few years back there were something on the order of 500 new CH Goldens for every FC or AFC Golden Retriever. My point being, which you ladies were so kind to support is, how did the GRCA membership get skewed so far to the conformation side. It got that way because of lack of emphasis on the Retriever.

Dana, you are on the board of the GRCA so let me ask you one question that you should be able to answer off the top of your head given that you are so into the field and retriever part of the breed. How many AKC Dual CH Golden Retrievers have there been, and when was the last titled? If you can answer this question without looking it up, you have my apology.

I truly hope that the field education committee will result a new direction, but I really do not see it happening. The numbers are much too far skewed to reverse the trend. 

Time to go air the dogs, but you ladies will be please to know that if the computer does not crash again I will be back shortly. 

Jim Pickering


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

kpick52 said:


> Time to go air the dogs, but you ladies will be please to know that if the computer does not crash again I will be back shortly.


Hey Jim,

Coupla things to call you out on, but can't do so until the pizza arrives. That would not be fair to the pizza. Talk to you soon, darling. I hope Kathy doesn't think I am overstepping my boundaries by referring to you like that, but heard recently that is proper protocol as to how to address friends here on RTF.

Lovin' the family regards,

Melanie


----------



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

quote by Mr Gassner

7th Just a few more posts and I will own Haley!!!!! Andy do you want in for 50%? She might make an OK dog with a little training.

John the pheasant chucker/pickerupper[/quote]

I'm calling first dibs on Haley Johnnie G. n
First off I'm closer to KC than you are
]Second; I called it first
Third She needs to be with a lab family so she'll have better working conditions and will have less competition in the girls room to fix her pretty red hair
Fourth; I've already slept with the little red head a number of times
Fifth From an earlier post made a few weeks ago[complete with pictures] it is obvious that Mike wants her to be bred by a black dog.
Sixth; Mike has already hooked her up with the bling-bling gangsta look, next I'm sure will be cornrows in her pretty red hair
Seventh; I already sent the check
Eighth; Haley is a damn good dog and if I'm ever to be converted over to the fluffy side that will be neccessary; plus I really like her

ninth; How many more lame ass excuses do I have to make up to push this thread to the magical 11th page. Welcome home HALEY


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

Flowageboy said:


> I only own Field Goldens, but do not belong to GRCA so I'm not sure what's all included in the newsletter. However I surely hope its not stats on how fluffy did in the show ring. Goldens were bred for hunting..as RETRIEVERS....and the organization should acknowledge that fact and at the least be printing stats on hunt trials & tests for bettering the breed.


While I am critical of the current and past boards of the GRCA for not having a more balanced agenda and putting more emphasis on the Retriever part of the breed, I have also stated that the GRNews is the premire breed publication. There aregreat articles on health and other related issues. There is hopefully still a section where new master and senior hunters are recognized. So the publication is not without some field element, just not nearly enough and I find the excuses to be terribly weak and contraty to what a breed club should be.

Jim Pickering


----------



## EricW (Aug 6, 2005)

I think I read page 1, 2, part of 6, 9, 10, and maybe some others. So who's on first? (joke) 

I love to argue and I didn't know I was missing out on so much fun.....where do I sign up? I hope dues don't burn a hole in my pocket. Do the meetings get juicy?



Eric W.

P.S. I just had to say something.


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

I am not disagreeing that the field events take a back seat but if you really look at the magazine, all those slick, glitzy photos that take up the majority of the space are paid ads. Anyone can buy an ad and it's not their fault that more field dogs aren't promoted in the ads. The rest of the content may still be out of balance but not as bad as it may appear.

As far as the GRCA acknowledging the merit of field events and titles, you may want to look at the point schedule for Outstanding Sire/Dam or the Versatility titles. In achieving those titles:

CH is worth 9 points
MH is worth 10
FC or AFC is worth 12
SDHF (show dog hall of fame) is worth 11 points
FDHF is worth 14

Am I wrong to think that means they place a higher value on field titles than show titles?
Just askin'.

JS


----------



## Kevin WI (Mar 14, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> It will be difficult to elicit support from the Board for opinions of non-members. We would love you to join us in our cause by joining the GRCA though.
> 
> Melanie


While I appreciate that statement, I can only state that I join organizations that currently have a current set of standards as my own so I can achieve the goals I set for my dogs. I don't join an organization so that I can join the effort to change that organization to my standards...it would be like peeing against the wind....while I'm sure some of it will hit where I aim, most I'm sure will land on my shoes.


----------



## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

Welcome to another episode of "As the RTF turns.."

I am treading lightly & saying little (and yes-I support the continuation of FT stats being published in the GRNews), but I feel strongly that the GRNews has to be one of the best breed magazines out there and I've seen several others. The emphasis on educating breed owners in regards to health issues has been outstanding and the denouncement of the breed as part of the designer trend was taken on vehemently. I think there are articles in every issue that embrace the history of the breed regarding some of the field greats & the people who owned, trained & consequently perpetuated the retriever aspect of the dogs who followed.

Phyllis Walsh has done a wonderful job with her field articles and they appeal to newbies and experienced folks alike.

I had Newfoundlands before Goldens and like Chessies-the breed didn't need to evolve to a changing conformation standard. Form follows function and it wasn't at all unusual to have a conformation event on a Saturday and each and every one of those dogs participating in a draft or water event the next day. The integrity of the ORIGINAL conformation was preserved because the dogs had a long history of being a working dog-first and foremost. Their conformation supported that work. If you look at the Goldens who were Dual CHs-they look nothing like the CHs of today. But this is getting into that show vs field -dead horse-argument! 

Living in New England I'm fortunate enough to be able to participate in (I don't belong to any of them) several Golden club field events. Whether the individuals who work to put these events on want "just" a JH or WC for their dogs-they still deserve props for putting on the events and in so doing-fostering the field aspect of Goldens. Not everyone has an interest in pursuing FTs, but any field event is a step in the right direction. 

I'm sure I've already gone off on a tangent, but the bottom line is that I think overall the GRCA & the GRNews does a very good job of being as balanced as they can be with such a diversified member base.

M


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

kpick52 said:


> I apologize for stirring the pot and not being here to keep it stirred. Life is a bitch. First my computer crashed and burned. I was able to commandeer the wife’s while she is away in the Big Apple, but no sooner did I get re-registered on RTF than AT&T crashed. I first thought that some show Golden person and sabotaged Kathy’s computer *(joke) *but finally decided that it was the AT&T DSL service. So I called AT&T customer service to report the problem and got the computer, punched #1 for English, #4 for a computer problem, #3 for home use, then had to listen to the sepal encouraging me to use the AT&T website for faster service. Sure thing. Finally I was able to punch #3 to be transferred to a person, only to get another recording advising that my call could not be transferred due to technical problems. I sure hope that we never have a National crisis and need phone and internet service.
> 
> Dana do you serve on the AT&T BOD also. (joke)
> 
> ...


Dana do you serve on the AT&T BOD also....
.I have freinds in high places. Wait until you flush your toilet next time.....

Before you spend money on a ad for placements combine your names and submit your request to the following ....Make a good argument and mention the support your giving for the Field Issue.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/grca_board/

Dana


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> Hey Jim,
> 
> Coupla things to call you out on, but can't do so until the pizza arrives. That would not be fair to the pizza. Talk to you soon, darling. I hope Kathy doesn't think I am overstepping my boundaries by referring to you like that, but heard recently that is proper protocol as to how to address friends here on RTF.
> 
> ...


Wait now, let me see if I understand. You say that you are going to call me out then in the next sentence call me “darling” trying to kiss and make up.  

What did not get wrong, Honey Bunch? And no, I would not expect that Kathy will be concerned that you are overstepping, but given all this in on her computer, we shall know in a couple days.

Yours always, :twisted: 
Jim


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

JS said:


> As far as the GRCA acknowledging the merit of field events and titles, you may want to look at the point schedule for Outstanding Sire/Dam or the Versatility titles. In achieving those titles:
> 
> CH is worth 9 points
> MH is worth 10
> ...


You guys just keep making my point for me. Given that it is approximately 500 times easier to obtain a CH title than FC title the 9 to 12 relationship hardly seems correct. (JOKE) but with some validity.


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

Dana O said:


> Dana do you serve on the AT&T BOD also....
> 
> I have freinds in high places. Wait until you flush your toilet next time.....
> 
> Dana


That sound like friends in low places, but thanks for the good laugh.

Jim


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Dana O said:


> ..................
> 
> Before you spend money on a ad for placements combine your names and submit your request to the following ....Make a good argument and mention the support your giving for the Field Issue.
> 
> ...



Melanie..Mr Pickering...is this something that might be done? ...to get the task actually done?

Judy


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

This is just outta control!

Marc you can pick up Haley, send the check to Melanie for this cause.

Howard, I am sending you a check for a Bam puppy, I want a female that looks like Bam, retrieves like Bam, but does not EAT like Bam, repeat, EAT like Bam!

I am changing my log in name to "BLACK BOY 2"

This is not going to look good on a resume, 12 years of college down the drain!


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)




----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

I have changed fan clubs


----------



## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

golden boy 2 said:


> I have changed fan clubs


Can you print short-sleeve t-shirts this time? June in VT can be warm.

M


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

Judy Chute said:


> Melanie..Mr Pickering...is this something that might be done? ...to get the task actually done?
> 
> Judy


This is what I suggested that started this discussion. If Melanie will make the list, she had permission to include my name.

Jim


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey BB2 does marc get the ribbons and trophies also. If so do not let him know about the GRCA specialty trophy


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

I have a half dozen more pages typed and ready to post in reply to various post, but I am going to try to make a short summary and let this thread fade away.



> *I wrote:*
> "So lets tar and feather the BOD."





> *Dana replied:*
> I am hoping this was made in Jest.


Certainly the comment was made in jest. Obviously with my limited command of the English language I have some difficulty expressing my thoughts. Nothing I have posted was intended to be show vs field.

My comments about the GRCA board were directed at the current and prior board members collectively. I am well aware of the contributions that both Barbara Brandstad and Ann Strathern have made. Both have given heart and soul in support of the Golden* Retriever* and the GRCA.

I am not anti conformation nor am I anti multipurpose Golden Retriever. I think it is wonderful that the Golden *Retriever* is such a versatile animal although versatility is not the stated objective and I would submit that it is the natural retriever abilities that make it versatile. I am certainly not anti breed standard although I realize that if I want to play the field trial game successfully which means compete with all retriever breeds including Labradors I cannot eliminate a dog with the natural ability because it has a gay tail, white blaze in its chest or head, or has copper colored eyes.

I am frustrated that gene pool of field trial capable Golden Retrievers is minutely small in large part because the conformation folks collectively have taken the breed in a different direction away from the Retriever.

Bottom line, it is simply beyond my comprehension why and how a Retriever club has gotten so far out of balance from its objective as stated in its By Laws. 

I hope that the field education committee will have some favorable impact. Likewise I hope that those board members who would like to see a move toward balance have a favorable impact. From my prospective you have a very long row to hoe.

Sorry that this is not as brief as I intended, but I will try not to make another post. If I am not excommunicated maybe I will see you at the 2008 Specialty field trial.

Jim Pickering


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

kpick52 said:


> I have a half dozen more pages typed and ready to post in reply to various post, but I am going to try to make a short summary and let this thread fade away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your not excumunicated. we will just have to send you to a re-education camp in Siberia. I hear the accomidations are not the best but you get all the ice you need for your drinks.
We are not saying that you need to get rid of any dog....just use common sense when breeding those dogs that might not fit the standard. The problem is and this is a broad statement is that everyone is breeding for the game they play and not for the standard. It happens on both sides of the room. Thus the division. Please note how Jackie M. is starting to put a little more conformation back into her lines. I have a freind that just bred her breed bitch to a FC. so that she could put some drive and birdiness back into her lines. People are starting to recognize the problem and are taking steps in the right direction.


----------



## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

My comments about the GRCA board were directed at the current and prior board members collectively. I am well aware of the contributions that both Barbara Brandstad and Ann Strathern have made. Both have given heart and soul in support of the Golden* Retriever* and the GRCA.

---I think that other BOD members have also strived to get at least rudimentary knowledge of the field events. I know that Chris Miele (primarily conf & agility) was at the MH test in Gettysburg.
====

I am not anti conformation nor am I anti multipurpose Golden Retriever. I think it is wonderful that the Golden *Retriever* is such a versatile animal although versatility is not the stated objective and I would submit that it is the natural retriever abilities that make it versatile.

--- Very much agree! If you look at many of the successful dogs in obedience, agility, hunt tests, they are rooted in field breeding when you look closely at the pedigrees.
========
I am certainly not anti breed standard although I realize that if I want to play the field trial game successfully which means compete with all retriever breeds including Labradors I cannot eliminate a dog with the natural ability because it has a gay tail, white blaze in its chest or head, or has copper colored eyes.

I am frustrated that gene pool of field trial capable Golden Retrievers is minutely small 

--- Perhaps some reason to look for the dogs who stem from show lines that may have retained working ability. Even if used sparingly with established field lines, it would help with some genetic diversity. To draw such dogs out in the open, the publishing of the field stats is one way to keep "field" in front of people's faces & give evidence that the GRCA supports field endeavors.
========
in large part because the conformation folks collectively have taken the breed in a different direction away from the Retriever.

---Nobody really "planned" that change. Sheer numbers and "accessability" to dog shows v. field events. Changes in our society were also an influence as hunting fell into disfavor, land got developed for housing. And, we can't discount that some people get turned off by the killing of the game. Not saying they're right, but it's a fact I've found to be true.
=======
Bottom line, it is simply beyond my comprehension why and how a Retriever club has gotten so far out of balance from its objective as stated in its By Laws. 

--- I think one finds the same to be true of many sporting and working breeds. As breeds transition to new fanciers, many of them come from walks of life that don't mesh with the originators of these breeds. Very few breeds seem to be able to avoid a "split" in the breeds. So far, the Tollers are hanging in there, but they are much newer to the scene than the other Retrievers.

The "original purpose" contingent will always be swimming against the tide, IMO. That doesn't mean that one should give up the goal. And being pro-active in GRCA is one way to do so. It's the only entity with the ability to speak to the whole GR population.
=======
I hope that the field education committee will have some favorable impact. Likewise I hope that those board members who would like to see a move toward balance have a favorable impact. From my prospective you have a very long row to hoe.

--- Evolution like this did not occur overnight. Change will also not occur that way. I mentioned factors above that will continue to act against field events becoming a primary focus ever again. The job becomes trying to assure that the original purpose is not forgotten at the Natl club level.

Whether we like it or not, the national club entity will survive our lifetimes. Whatever we do to promote the cause of the field aspect of GRs at the national level will be what moves into the future without us. Others will only have the example we leave them.

Many, like Glenda & those before her, who have taken on the task and acted to do this, are very deserving of thanks and admiration. 

G


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Dana O said:


> Your not excumunicated. we will just have to send you to a re-education camp in Siberia. I hear the accomidations are not the best but you get all the ice you need for your drinks.
> We are not saying that you need to get rid of any dog....just use common sense when breeding those dogs that might not fit the standard. The problem is and this is a broad statement is that everyone is breeding for the game they play and not for the standard. It happens on both sides of the room. Thus the division. Please note how Jackie M. is starting to put a little more conformation back into her lines. I have a freind that just bred her breed bitch to a FC. so that she could put some drive and birdiness back into her lines. People are starting to recognize the problem and are taking steps in the right direction.



Dana let's hope that is so, the part about people recognizing the problem. 

Perhaps in 8 or 9 years, the bench dogs will no longer be known as the Anna Nichole Smith's of the Retriver world.


----------



## Jennifer A. (Nov 29, 2004)

Holy Crow! as a friend would say. I nearly missed this whole thing. So many posts, so few days!
Melanie, I will send $ to you to get the GRNEWS current re. FT stats (my very favorite kind). But I sure expect a concerted effort like this - thank you all for a virtual explosion of enthusiasm for our sport and our breed - will result in the reinstatement of regular FIELD TRAIL stats reporting in the same. 
I'm mighty glad Pawla prompted me to not miss this thread before I wrote yet another rather large check to the GRCA. I had not realized FT stats were _officially_ gone and that is the first thing I want out of my annual $55+, even though it's old news by the time I ever get a "new" issue. To clarify, I am renewing and sending a letter along with it. 
Change from within, let's go; write those letters! Maybe we can even inspire a publication schedule representative of the Information Age we are lucky enough to play in.


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

Jennifer A. said:


> Holy Crow! as a friend would say. I nearly missed this whole thing. So many posts, so few days!
> Melanie, I will send $ to you to get the GRNEWS current re. FT stats (my very favorite kind). But I sure expect a concerted effort like this - thank you all for a virtual explosion of enthusiasm for our sport and our breed - will result in the reinstatement of regular FIELD TRAIL stats reporting in the same.
> I'm mighty glad Pawla prompted me to not miss this thread before I wrote yet another rather large check to the GRCA. I had not realized FT stats were _officially_ gone and that is the first thing I want out of my annual $55+, even though it's old news by the time I ever get a "new" issue.
> Change from within, let's go; write those letters! Maybe we can even inspire a publication schedule representative of the Information Age we are lucky enough to play in.


I will say the BOD does take the advice of members much more seriously then non-members. Please keep that in mind also.

Dana


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

"Mr Pickering wrote" .. a rather short post .. 

..."and I would submit that it is the natural retriever abilities that make it versatile. .."

I totally agree..there is nothing like the style, enthusiasm and joy of a Golden Retriever..in any venue. 

Again, great post...please do not hold back on your thoughts, opinions and great information that you have to share. It is appreciated by this novice..amateur..

Thanks. ...

Judy


----------



## greyghost (Jun 11, 2004)

Maybe...someone who is interested should just work out a deal with the GRCA and publish the stats and include(sell) advertising space included with the stats? The GRCA benefits, the field people benefit with getting some exposure in the publication....heck...maybe someone makes a buck! I haven't read all the posts....so maybe someone has thought of this already? 
Otherwise, I personally don't have a problem getting the stats from RFTN. Especially since it sounds like there are so many overworked people at the GRCA. Not trying to offend anyone, or any opinion.


----------



## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Steve Amrein said:


> Hey BB2 does marc get the ribbons and trophies also. If so do not let him know about the *GRCA specialty trophy*


Oh Lord - please give me the strength to not run amok with this one.


This is deifnitely a target rich environment regards

Bubba

Who will be grinning all day


----------



## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

14 pages and counting. Whew!!!!!!!!!!!!
Before anyone assumes what Jackie Mertens from Topbrass is doing with her breeding program, I would get a quote from her or better yet get a response to this thread.You know what they say about assuming??? it makes an ass out of "U" and "Me".
There is so many reasons that the breed will never come together to be one happy family.
The competition is sooooooooooooo tough in the world of Field Trials made possible by good techniques of training.What was a tough Amateur in the 1990's when I was running "Ginger" is now a tough "Q".Derby dogs are making the National Derby List at the baby age of what Mike???
Master level tests used to be pretty straight forward multiples with a simple blind up the middle of the marks.Now they are quads. with 2 blinds, diversion birds etc.............
The marking ability of our Golden is outstanding let alone the trainability.And when several of our beloved Goldens do happen to kick butt like at Snowbird last weekend????I think that a whole darn page should be devoted to this!!! I say yahoo to Jim's puppy(Derby)Judy's Open dog, Joe's "Q" dog and the Jams in the Amat.(Phoenix, Pixie)They beat some darn good labs. down there.
Whew!!!!!!!!!!!
Sue


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

ginger69 said:


> 14 pages and counting. Whew!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Before anyone assumes what Jackie Mertens from Topbrass is doing with her breeding program, I would get a quote from her or better yet get a response to this thread.You know what they say about assuming??? it makes an ass out of "U" and "Me".
> There is so many reasons that the breed will never come together to be one happy family.
> The competition is sooooooooooooo tough in the world of Field Trials made possible by good techniques of training.What was a tough Amateur in the 1990's when I was running "Ginger" is now a tough "Q".Derby dogs are making the National Derby List at the baby age of what Mike???
> ...


http://www.topbrass-retrievers.com/litters.htm

One of the sires is a friend of mines dog. 
The other is a top 20 dog this past year.
She also has been breeding to several other Ch's.

Dana


Dana


----------



## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

I am very familiar with Jackie's web site. Thanks!!
These sire's are ALL LOCAL DOGS!!!!!!!!!!! Very convenient for her and the girls.Good pet puppies for a pet market.
I still say get HER opinion. Don't ASSUME by a web site.
Top 20 what?????????
Where is the 2008 National Golden Field Trial Speciality??
I have a couple of Derby dogs that will be ready and my kids are both in school now. Last Specialty I ran I think that I gave my daughter to Dave Baumgarter to hold while I ran the Amat. Danielle was in a stroller. I remember having to stop several times down Interstate ?? to pick up toys that she was throwing out the truck window,sitting at the bauquet with her in her carrier on the table,changing diapers inbetween series of the Open.
She still is my biggest cheering section. Not on my back in her carrier but in the holding blind. My son?? He could care less. He's throwing rocks in the ponds, or playing in the mud or catching frogs/snakes/worms/bugs.Yikes!!!!!!!!
Sue


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

ginger69 said:


> I am very familiar with Jackie's web site. Thanks!!
> These sire's are ALL LOCAL DOGS!!!!!!!!!!! Very convenient for her and the girls.Good pet puppies for a pet market.
> I still say get HER opinion. Don't ASSUME by a web site.
> Top 20 what?????????
> ...


Where is the 2008 National Golden Field Trial Speciality??

Warwick RI

http://www.yankeegrc.org/index.html

http://www.yankeegrc.org/2008GRCANational.html


Dana


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Forgive me if I am mistaken..but 110% sure I am not..

Jackie has a "Field" line....and a pet line that also offers performance pups. Like obedience, agility etc. 

Right? 

I train and trial with several Topbrass" Golden Retrievers or offspring of those..that are definitely at least Master Hunter and or "Field Trial Golden Retrievers...

Right, Sue? ...Melanie?


----------



## weebegoldens (Jan 25, 2005)

Bait is doing the support your golden dance..

http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1179464043


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

greyghost said:


> Otherwise, I personally don't have a problem getting the stats from RFTN. Especially since it sounds like there are so many overworked people at the GRCA. Not trying to offend anyone, or any opinion.


Pete,

No offense taken. But does it not seem absurd to expect anyone wanting field statistics on Golden Retrievers to not only be required to purchase a whole other subscription, but to go through 100+ lines of text per page for the 30+ pages in each issue of RFTN that lists results searching for dogs with the "G" after their name, when the GRCA has a publication called *Golden Retriever News*? 

Heck, I am stats obsessed and I dabble in field trials, and even I am getting tired of weeding through RFTN with a highlighter every month. How and why should we expect a general member of the GRCA to have to do so? Does it not make sense to have this information easily accessible to all members?


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Sounds good to me Melan__

Why doesn't someone do something about this?


John


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

John Gassner said:


> Why doesn't someone do something about this?


:idea::idea: Johnny, sometimes you are a genius! I've gotta coupla ideas...call when you can, darling!


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> :idea::idea: Johnny, sometimes you are a genius! I've gotta coupla ideas...call when you can, darling!



How bout the Field Golden Newsletter.

Just trying to be helpfull


----------



## Goldenboy (Jun 16, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> OK there is a person who we will refer to as Jeff, his initials may even be J.B., I have seen you looking at this thread more times than I can count on my fingers and toes and have yet to hear from you about your pledge.
> 
> While I would like to skeer you with the possibility of not listing your 60 dog Qual WIN in our results pages though not likely since she's a Firemark dog), I would still like you to realize that is a remote possibility. Plus I may not return your emails or phone calls and that would make you very sad and you'd probably feel like half the man you thought you were.
> 
> ...


And size matters, right? Mine's a big one. (The donation, of course)


----------



## scribdog (Dec 10, 2005)

I am unable to "quote" and I am icon free. 

To the idea that the Golden Retriever has to come from 'field' lines, that someone is breeding pet, multipurpose Golden Retriever lines, is a bit, well, all hooey, if one believes in the Golden Retriever, the base animal. 

I believe there was someone that bought a Golden Retriever from a sign on the street corner. That dog acquired obedience titles, Hunt test titles, tracking titles and became an AFC. There have been some fantastic 'field' breedings in recent history. How many will attain an AFC and the 'other' titles, that this dog did?

Just thinking along those 'lines'.
Pat


----------



## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Melanie for president.....or at least for fund raising chairwoman.


----------



## kpick52 (Dec 3, 2007)

> Originally Posted by greyghost
> Otherwise, I personally don't have a problem getting the stats from RFTN. Especially since it sounds like there are so many overworked people at the GRCA. Not trying to offend anyone, or any opinion.





Melanie Foster said:


> Pete,
> 
> No offense taken. But does it not seem absurd to expect anyone wanting field statistics on Golden Retrievers to not only be required to purchase a whole other subscription, but to go through 100+ lines of text per page for the 30+ pages in each issue of RFTN that lists results searching for dogs with the "G" after their name, when the GRCA has a publication called *Golden Retriever News*?
> 
> Heck, I am stats obsessed and I dabble in field trials, and even I am getting tired of weeding through RFTN with a highlighter every month. How and why should we expect a general member of the GRCA to have to do so? Does it not make sense to have this information easily accessible to all members?


I have to agree with Melanie even thought she picks on my wonderful, sweet, kind husband a lot because of his senior moments.

Melanie, maybe since you are right there handy you can explain to Glenda that while she looks to the RFTNews and Entry Express to get results for the FC AFC & QAA Labs it is unlikely the GRCA members she is tasked with education about field stuff are looking to either source for their education. Just a thought.

kpick52


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

This has been sitting on my kitchen table for about 2 weeks, not sure what I should do with it?


----------



## greyghost (Jun 11, 2004)

Dogonne it Mel...quit beating me up! Jus kiddn....I sure did not mean my comments to be specific towards you....just my rambling thoughts about the topic in general. To be truthful I haven't read all the posts and don't have the time right this moment....but you will have my contribution. JB, get off your tail and say something! Your opinion is very valued!
I'm lucky, I have had some good things happen with my 1st dog, we've learned a lot in a short time, and I would be honored to contribute. Now...back to the salt mine....my O' my.


----------



## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Oh, I recognize that nose....Nice hold!!! I sent mine in last week before this all came up so can't help you on that....but am so very disappointed that you have changed your loyalties to "TEAM BAM"

Team Jake Supporter regards,

Diane


----------



## LH (Jan 24, 2006)

Dana O said:


> Your not excumunicated. we will just have to send you to a re-education camp in Siberia. I hear the accomidations are not the best but you get all the ice you need for your drinks.
> We are not saying that you need to get rid of any dog....just use common sense when breeding those dogs that might not fit the standard. The problem is and this is a broad statement is that everyone is breeding for the game they play and not for the standard. It happens on both sides of the room. Thus the division. Please note how Jackie M. is starting to put a little more conformation back into her lines. I have a freind that just bred her breed bitch to a FC. so that she could put some drive and birdiness back into her lines. People are starting to recognize the problem and are taking steps in the right direction.



This is interesting, combining/mixing different lines. What are the ideas behind doing this? What will be the results? Has it been done before? 

When breeding show goldens in the US, how do people related to the fact that the US show golden look so different from the UK show golden (see below)?

http://www.retrievers-catcombe.co.uk/boys.html

http://www.taygetosland.gr/html/crufts2006_1b.htm

http://www.taygetosland.gr/html/crufts2006_1.htm


----------



## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Fisher got me the pen to write the check. He thinks every GRNews is a catalog for girlfriends.


----------



## LH (Jan 24, 2006)

scribdog said:


> I am unable to "quote" and I am icon free.
> 
> To the idea that the Golden Retriever has to come from 'field' lines, that someone is breeding pet, multipurpose Golden Retriever lines, is a bit, well, all hooey, if one believes in the Golden Retriever, the base animal.
> 
> ...


Which dog is this, how did it attain the titles and has it contributed to the genepool?


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

I think Pickering could give you a pretty good story on Jake, but he is burning something up in the kitchen!


----------



## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

golden boy 2 said:


> This has been sitting on my kitchen table for about 2 weeks, not sure what I should do with it?



Renew  ...........


----------



## scribdog (Dec 10, 2005)

Yes this dog has offered himself to the genepool. But who would notice? People look, in Goldens to only 'big time titles'. He has MH and AA title offspring, what's the big deal? It isn't the blood lines. The owner believed in his dog and enjoyed the trip. We lose sight of the Golden Retriever who we share our lives with. 

That's my point, they can do it, can we put the time and effort into allowing them to peform to the heights they can excel?

I'm an idiot, what do I know?
Pat


----------



## Guest (Dec 6, 2007)

golden boy 2 said:


> This has been sitting on my kitchen table for about 2 weeks, not sure what I should do with it?


----------



## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

Ok Pilot I showed your daughter your little note and she says " We don't want no more stinking trophies, we want more BLANKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## maydayretrievers (May 30, 2005)

To Funny..got To Love Our Goldens...


----------



## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

To answer Scribdog and LH's comment's about AFC "Jake" and his breeding, I would contact Mr. Pickering on that one.And I want to comment on Jim's web site. It is/was the MOST honest web site that I have EVER seen. No issues under the rug. He put it out there. Personally for my own breeding,I stay away from pedigree's that are unknown(NO known health info.)It's a bigger crap shoot(unknown) and I feel the responsibilty to my clients to know my pedigrees.If I do breed to an unknown pedigree(And I'm saying that in general NOT to offend anyone so please................)I tell my clients and my guarantee is solid.Does it prevent heartache,Vet. bills,etc...NO but it is a comfort to some when buying a puppy to known that I personally stand behind my breedings.
I think this all has been both fun and informative to many.
Thanks to all.
Sue


----------



## Dana O (Nov 4, 2003)

LH said:


> This is interesting, combining/mixing different lines. What are the ideas behind doing this? What will be the results? Has it been done before?
> 
> When breeding show goldens in the US, how do people related to the fact that the US show golden look so different from the UK show golden (see below)?
> 
> ...


Good questions, I do not breed so I can only speculate. The division of the breed did not happen overnite as you know.The combining of lines really is a crap shoot I would think at this time. By that I specifically am talking about marketing/selling of these animals.
How would they fare in a breed show? What will their instinct be for hunting/hunt tests? See below on the English Golden.

That is why I respect so much those that are working at this. They are not doing it for monetary reasons, they are doing it because they want the breed to come back to more what it was intended. I know several that are trying this and what I am saying is not an assumption.

As far as the English Golden, you are seeing more and more of them coming into this country. Unfortunetly they are being marketed for the most part as rare white goldens and being sold for a huge price. Some say they are more laid back then our American Goldens. I think myself they are nice dogs from the ones I have been around. But they fall into that category that they can not win in the breed ring here, nor do they have the drive people want for field trials. They can run hunt tests and from what I have heard make great hunting dogs. Our former GRCA Pres. loves them. Say's they are the perfect Golden. A dog that will lay at your feet at night but ready and willing to participate in anything you want to throw at them.. I personally like them. The original Goldens would not be able to compete with the field trial labs, nor would they be able to win in the show ring here in the states. I think the English Golden is still keeping to what the breed was meant to be.
It all comes back to breeding for the games we play and not what is best for the breed. 

Dana


----------



## EricW (Aug 6, 2005)

Dana O said:


> But they fall into that category that they can not win in the breed ring here, nor do they have the drive people want for field trials. They can run hunt tests and from what I have heard make great hunting dogs. Our former GRCA Pres. loves them. Say's they are the perfect Golden. A dog that will lay at your feet at night but ready and willing to participate in anything you want to throw at them.. I personally like them. The original Goldens would not be able to compete with the field trial labs, nor would they be able to win in the show ring here in the states. I think the English Golden is still keeping to what the breed was meant to be.
> It all comes back to breeding for the games we play and not what is best for the breed.
> 
> Dana


I disagree with you here. My Goldens may not be able to win in the show ring, however my dogs are excellent hunters, will lay at your feet at night, ready and willing to participate in anything, but have tremendous drive to compete with field dogs. Sure, they are bred for the games I play, but it is still for the best of the breed. I say they are bettering the breed because they have all what you describe of the English Golden, plus more. English have a different hunting style from the US but the goal is to improve the dogs through selective breeding, but the improvements are based on the characteristics we want to meet our needs. So you really can't compare US Goldens to English Goldens in some respects. You have a common goal of Retrieving (hunting) but after that, it changes to get what is desired.

Side note: I have noticed a lot of people, and many who have been in the games a long time, that they sometimes are confused on what drive really is and mistakenly use style in comparison with drive.


----------



## LH (Jan 24, 2006)

Dana O said:


> Good questions, I do not breed so I can only speculate. The division of the breed did not happen overnite as you know.The combining of lines really is a crap shoot I would think at this time. By that I specifically am talking about marketing/selling of these animals.
> How would they fare in a breed show? What will their instinct be for hunting/hunt tests? See below on the English Golden.
> 
> That is why I respect so much those that are working at this. They are not doing it for monetary reasons, they are doing it because they want the breed to come back to more what it was intended. I know several that are trying this and what I am saying is not an assumption.
> ...


Interesting! I think a lot of showoriented people in Europe are now longing for the darker coat colors. 

Also the English Goldens have changed a lot from what they used to look like and the English Golden is just as split in 2 different varieties (show and FT) as the US Goldens. Their pedigrees are most often not mixed at all. Maybe the UK show Golden retain more working ability than the US show variety?

There are some great pics of old UK Show Champions:

http://www.merytyme.se/goldenshch/histshowch.htm


----------



## Guest (Dec 6, 2007)

golden boy 2 said:


> Ok Pilot I showed your daughter your little note and she says " We don't want no more stinking trophies, we want more BLANKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Did it hurt to put that yellow marble in her eye socket or does she always smile like that?


----------



## RexG (Mar 16, 2006)

Melanie, thanks for today's laugh.

I've tried to erase that yellow marble eye from pictures with no success.

BTW, check is in the mail to renew GRCA dues.

Check is in the mail to you for the ad.

Check is in the mail to Glenda for the other special ad.

Sorry, out of checks.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi Everyone,

So far, I've compiled the Golden placements and JAMs for all the licensed trials in 2007 through July. 

The good news is, there were more dogs to list than I expected. 
The bad news is, there were more dogs to list than I expected.

That means we need more help raising a few more dollars. 

I have run it by Sylvia to see how we're looking on the number of pages required. It looks like we're up to 5.5 pages so far but we're probably going to have to reduce the font further in order to be able to include the whole year. 5.5 pages @ $140/page = $770. We only have $595 collected so far, and remember, this is only the trials held through July.

If you aren't able to contribute right now, please take the time to forward this info to anyone who might be interested in helping out. If you are planning to donate, please drop me a note to let me know "the check is in the mail" and how much I can expect so I can keep a running total. 

THE DEADLINE IS NEXT WEEK SO IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I KNOW HOW MUCH WE WILL BE ABLE TO PUBLISH! And yes, that was a little shouting going on there. ;-)

Donations can be sent to me at:

575 Cross Street
Lodi CA 95242

Thanks in advance! Now back to typing...

Carpal tunnel regards,

Melanie
[email protected]

ps For anyone interested, out of the 203 "ribbons earned" typed up so far, 152 of these would *not* be reflected in a mere Field Trial Summary because they consist of All-Age and Derby JAMs and Qualifying finishes. The Summary only lists points earned. Is it important for breed history to have names of all dogs that are completing trials published? I kinda think so, but that's just me.


----------



## Ann Strathern (Oct 25, 2004)

Hi Melanie:

I will be happy to post the stats on the GRCA Field Education Website if you can email them to me. That way they can be archived by year and people won't have to hunt for the stats.

Go to www.GRCA.org/fec to view our site.

Hope you all are getting the Nov/Dec issue of the GRNews. I got mine today and will read during the stormy weekend.

Ann Strathern, chair GRCA FEC committee.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2007)

HEY EVERYBODY! (Yeah, a little more shouting.) WE DID IT! 

Thanks to everyone who has already sent checks and those who have just recently pledged and are currently standing in line at the post office, it looks like we will not only be publishing the year end Field Trial Summary which includes dogs ranked by All-Age points and Derby points for 2007, but *all the placements and JAMs earned by Goldens in licensed trials for the entire year*. 

For those who have mentioned their discontent about coverage of "field" Goldens in the GRNews, I challenge you to go through an issue, any issue, and count the pages devoted to any of the dog games and compare it to the coverage of our Goldens working in the field. And no, you absolutely may NOT count ads for the conformation brags. That is PAID advertising. Do you think the publication should turn down paid advertising because it may not be your cup of tea?

Sylvia, the GRNews Editor, probably didn't want me to post this but she told me I could do what I want so I will. 

From Ms. Donahey-Feeney:

_"I have been the editor of the magazine since 1986. Prior to that I produced the ads beginning in 1978. I think that gives me some background and perspective as to what the magazine is and isn't, and what has and hasn't happened over the years with regard to content.

Since 1986, every word, every photo, every scrap of information about field endeavors that has come to me has been published in the GRNews. I have begged and pleaded with the members who are breeding and running field dogs to submit information, articles, ads - ANYTHING - to the magazine. What you have seen in the magazine is the sum total of what the field members have submitted. If they have a problem with that content, they need look no further than the end of their fingers. We have published photos and owner write-ups on every new SH/MH, AFC, FC, *** dog that was submitted. We have asked for write-ups on the Goldens running the National, Amateur and Master National and published every word submitted along with photos. If it doesn't come across my desk, where on earth do they think I can dredge up the information?"_

Food for thought, eh? In other words, if you want something to change about your club's publication, do something about it!

Thanks to Mr. Pickering for helping out with the stats on the last few trials that weren't in RFTN so we can publish as much info from 2007 as possible. And you all have no idea how much time Glenda has put into providing upcoming articles about our breed working in the field.

Now if someone can just rub this terrible kink I've got in my neck from sitting here at my desk, we can call it all good.

Happy Holidays, Everyone. Nice work, gang!

Melanie


----------



## Goldenboy (Jun 16, 2004)

When I told the throngs at the post office waiting to mail their Christmas gifts that Melanie Foster needed my check, they parted like the Red Sea. Was it respect, or fear? 

Thanks to all who participated in making this happen


----------



## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Goldenboy said:


> When I told the throngs at the post office waiting to mail their Christmas gifts that Melanie Foster needed my check, they parted like the Red Sea. Was it respect, or fear?
> 
> Thanks to all who participated in making this happen


Might just be time for a shower?????

Works for me regards

Bubba


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks for the bump, Bubba. We appreciate that you're supporting our cause even if it's just in your little itty bitty way.

Unlike Mark's big one.

Melanie


----------



## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

I thought you said your typing finger was sore.

Always trying to help out in the worst way.

Love to stick around and chat, but Terry just called and said Mr. Walker fell on the ice again. Need to go surround him and warm him up some.

Sure hope he ain't bruised regards

Bubba


----------



## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> HEY EVERYBODY! (Yeah, a little more shouting.) WE DID IT!


YES!!!!GREAT NEWS!!!! Thank you Melanie and Jim, too, for all the countless hours you have spent to get this off the ground! I can't wait to get that issue of GRCA News!

And Mark...just ignore Bubba, I know his reasoning is way off base! I do believe the fear of Melanie is a powerful tool, used wisely 

Diane


----------



## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

She use ta have it, but somebody dropped a house on her sister and she ain't been the same since.

Hope I can run faster drunk than she can mad regards

Bubba


----------



## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

I don't own a Golden, get the News or know Melanie, but she had me scared and wanting to send her money. She needs to go to work for a creditor.

Tim


----------

