# GRHRCH British Labs?



## Jim Spagna (Apr 21, 2008)

Does anyone know how many GRHRCH Labs are British Labs?


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

HRH Labs?


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Dual citizenship - as in American- (or Canadian-) British GRHRCH Labs?

MG


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

Former HRC National Vice President Kevin Bearden has a GHRCH "british" lab. There are probably others that I don't know about.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Doesn't UKC keep some sort of record of all this stuff? Not necessarily the type of lab but the titles and pedigrees? Looking at a pedigree of one should be obvious with the unfamiliar euro titles. Otherwise, the lines common to the performance labs should be strikingly obvious.


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## Skinny (Jul 11, 2013)

Give me a year and I'll have u one


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Doesn't UKC keep some sort of record of all this stuff? Not necessarily the type of lab but the titles and pedigrees? Looking at a pedigree of one should be obvious with the unfamiliar euro titles. Otherwise, the lines common to the performance labs should be strikingly obvious.


On the HRC website there is a listing of GRHRCH dogs, owners and color. Doesn't identify field vs british. However, it has not been updated since around May 2012. I'm still waiting to see my boy's name on the list since he received his title in Sep 2012.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Jeff Huntington said:


> On the HRC website there is a listing of GRHRCH dogs, owners and color. Doesn't identify field vs british. However, it has not been updated since around May 2012. I'm still waiting to see my boy's name on the list since he received his title in Sep 2012.


Exactly my point, look at the names and look up the pedigrees. I know nothing about lab pedigrees and I can tell yours isn't a British by the sire and dam.


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## Jim Spagna (Apr 21, 2008)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Exactly my point, look at the names and look up the pedigrees. I know nothing about lab pedigrees and I can tell yours isn't a British by the sire and dam.


Who is the "yours" to which you refer?


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

Skinny said:


> Give me a year and I'll have u one


How many Grand passes does your dog have now?


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Exactly my point, look at the names and look up the pedigrees. I know nothing about lab pedigrees and I can tell yours isn't a British by the sire and dam.


Based on sterotypes, control at the line in the Grand shouldn't be a problem.


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

Spag said:


> Who is the "yours" to which you refer?


Think Happy was referring to my GRHRCH per the signature and no he is not british but chocolate which in some eyes is more contraversial .


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## Jim Spagna (Apr 21, 2008)

Jeff Huntington said:


> Think Happy was referring to my GRHRCH per the signature and no he is not british but chocolate which in some eyes is more contraversial .


I see. I'm a Black Lab fan BUT I have to admit that the best dog I saw a the fall Grand was a chocolate. GRHRCH Leitner Farms Land Shark (C231) got her third Grand pass in Iowa. She is an amazing animal!


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## Lonnie Spann (May 14, 2012)

Spag said:


> Does anyone know how many GRHRCH Labs are British Labs?


I have no idea but wouldn't be surprised if in the near future they dominate the event.

Lonnie Spann


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Lonnie Spann said:


> I have no idea but wouldn't be surprised if in the near future they dominate the event.
> 
> Lonnie Spann


I literally LOLed at that. You are bad


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

GulfCoast said:


> How many Grand passes does your dog have now?


LOL good question.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Spag said:


> Who is the "yours" to which you refer?


The one with an AKC FC AFC...


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## Skinny (Jul 11, 2013)

GulfCoast said:


> How many Grand passes does your dog have now?


None right now I should have said hrch instead of grand hopefully have her grand by the time she is 3


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Skinny said:


> None right now I should have said hrch instead of grand hopefully have her grand by the time she is 3


Well, you're confident if not realistic. But, I admire your ambition.


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Chris Jobman was running a British dog at the fall grand. I believe he has 1 pass at the Grand level.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Skinny said:


> None right now I should have said hrch instead of grand hopefully have her grand by the time she is 3


Good luck to you. Hard work does pay off...I found out in my later years that nothing is unreachable if we put our mind to it and have a talented dog to boot.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

I have no clue the answer to the original post, but it'd be fun to find out! I know there are quite a many HRCH labs who have pedigrees from the UK. Double T has 3 or 4, including Spud who is in the 500
Club.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Margo Ellis said:


> Chris Jobman was running a British dog at the fall grand. I believe he has 1 pass at the Grand level.


What makes it British? Was it born overseas and imported?


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## Jim Spagna (Apr 21, 2008)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> What makes it British? Was it born overseas and imported?


That's a GOOD question! I don't know the answer. If the dam and sire are both imported, are the offspring also "British"?


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

All of his grandparents were in the UK. Spud (sire) was an import after getting his FTW- which is a designation not really a title, not sure how old his dam was when she was imported. So that would make Kiffin an american born UK dog. Kind of like an african american, or in my case- Polish american 

There is one FTCH MH in the U.S. FTCH Rockenhart Voyager MH, many HRCH and MH dogs, a scant few QAA dogs, and I personally know one HRCH UH MH MNH HOF dog. That one truly is a UK dog, he was conceived in the UK and his dam was imported pregnant. Not sure if this was done due to the better health care, so the dog could run for president, or if they were just trying to have the litter so that the mother could stay in the country as a migrant worker.


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## Irishwhistler (Sep 8, 2013)

firehouselabs said:


> All of his grandparents were in the UK. Spud (sire) was an import after getting his FTW- which is a designation not really a title, not sure how old his dam was when she was imported. So that would make Kiffin an american born UK dog. Kind of like an african american, or in my case- Polish american
> 
> There is one FTCH MH in the U.S. FTCH Rockenhart Voyager MH, many HRCH and MH dogs, a scant few QAA dogs, and I personally know one HRCH UH MH MNH HOF dog. That one truly is a UK dog, he was conceived in the UK and his dam
> was imported pregnant. Not sure if this was done due to the better health care, so the dog could run for president, or if they were just trying to have the litter so that the mother could stay in the country as a migrant worker.



I recently was fortunate enough to aquire a little pup BLM from Double TT British Kennel in Sylvia,
Kansas, that pup registered as TTF CRAIGHORN KIFFIN TRAD. Trad's sire is HRCH TTF CRAIGHORN KIFFIN MH and his grandsire is HRCH UH CRAIGHORN SPUD MH.

I have had the wee Trad since 10/23/13 and he is a wonderful little pup. Highly social and quick to learn, he has been a joy to work with thus far and has all of "the genetic right stuff" to be both an incredible gundog and hunt test dog. I look forward to seeing this pup TTF CRAIGHORN KIFFIN TRAD develop and have great hopes for the wee lad in both arenas.

Slainte Mates,
Irishwhistler


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

firehouselabs said:


> There is one FTCH MH in the U.S. *FTCH Rockenhart Voyager MH*


Can we clarify that this dog was an imported Irish FTCh that rose to become a master hunter in the US, but is *not *an AFC or FC as titled in US field trials?

MG


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

There is one 500 point HRCH/MH "british dog" snooring away under my desk at the moment. Not that she cares from where her momma and daddy emigrated. The only time I had the time to run it and tried to enter the grand, fedex botched getting my entry there on time, the "no exceptions" clause was invoked and we stayed home. Such is life.


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## Webbs515 (Feb 6, 2010)

Are some of these British dogs your talking about collar conditioned or not? I have watched people train without ecollars and the problems they run into on their British dogs. There are several around me that have Brits and don't use ecollars. They don't plan the game and have admitted the trouble they have. I agree with I'm sure the majority that u have to collar condition to have the advanced training.


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Spag said:


> That's a GOOD question! I don't know the answer. If the dam and sire are both imported, are the offspring also "British"?


I believe they would be America dogs by birth.


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## kennel maiden (Jun 11, 2012)

crackerd said:


> Can we clarify that this dog was an imported Irish FTCh that rose to become a master hunter in the US, but is *not *an AFC or FC as titled in US field trials?
> 
> MG


If it's an Irish FTCH, and registered/born in Ireland, then it's not BRITISH either! LOL


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

kennel maiden said:


> If it's an Irish FTCH, and registered/born in Ireland, then it's not BRITISH either! LOL


So, Ms. (LO)L, how goes the British FTCh scene heading into the IGL champs? Please give us the scoop from Blighty and some odds on the starters that Ladbrokes might not have.

MG


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

Skinny said:


> None right now I should have said hrch instead of grand hopefully have her grand by the time she is 3


Grand by 3 is still a pretty lofting goal...good luck.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

I'm not sure if some of you are genuinely asking or just being sarcastic. A dog is not a citizen, such as a human. A couple moves from Scotland to America and has a child, that child is American. As far as ancestry goes, he's Scottish (at least 1 generation prior, who knows past that). 

Everyone on this thread ought know that calling a lab British has little to do with where the dog is born. It only has to do with the ancestry of the dog. Does the dog have an ancestry of Labradors who have competed in American field trials? That's an American lab, as described in these conversations. If the dog has ancestry of dogs who competed in British field trials, that's a British dog. 

There is a distinction between British trial lines and other UK/European trial lines... So an Irish FTCH isn't a British FTCH, but British is the catch-all for UK dogs when discussing them in America (much to the dislike of some Irish guys I know!)

Of course, there's always mixes and everything in between... Just hoping this clarifies that a dog doesn't have to be born in England to be a British lab, nor is calling a dog born here a British lab improper usage of the term.


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Yes Crackerd, Sam was an imported FTCH who then became a MH in the U.S.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Bartona500 said:


> I'm not sure if some of you are genuinely asking or just being sarcastic. A dog is not a citizen, such as a human. A couple moves from Scotland to America and has a child, that child is American. As far as ancestry goes, he's Scottish (at least 1 generation prior, who knows past that).
> 
> Everyone on this thread ought know that calling a lab British has little to do with where the dog is born. It only has to do with the ancestry of the dog. Does the dog have an ancestry of Labradors who have competed in American field trials? That's an American lab, as described in these conversations. If the dog has ancestry of dogs who competed in British field trials, that's a British dog.
> 
> ...


If Alex Salmond has his way over here as First minister, then perhaps there will be a 'Scottish Labrador'?


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

So what do you call a British decendent trained with American methods....


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Jeff Huntington said:


> So what do you call a British decendent trained with American methods....


An Imposter !


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## Kirk Keene (Jul 20, 2009)

polmaise said:


> An Imposter !


Polmaise...you didn't just go there! 

I train both mine and most of my client dogs using "American" methods and am very happy with the results.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

Jeff Huntington said:


> So what do you call a British decendent trained with American methods....


I don't think the training method has much to do with the description given to the dog. If so, then we would need all new categories. Lardy Labs, Smartworks Labs, Positive Labs, Mostly Positive labs. 

The differences between types of labs are just generalizations, and there are always exceptions. For instance, everyone talks about British labradors (trial lines) being smaller, but I've read several posts on here of American FC line ancestry lab females who barely reach 45lbs. The bottom line is, the labs in the UK are tested differently than the labs in America... the good pedigree'd labs from the UK are from dogs who did exceedingly well in that type of testing, and the same goes for American labs. The guys in the UK train their dogs a specific way to achieve success in those tests, and American's do likewise. There is much overlap, MUCH. This forum tends to focus on the differences, which is fine.


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## Lonnie Spann (May 14, 2012)

So here's my question:

Why do Irish potatoes come from Idaho?

Just wondering,

Lonnie Spann


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

Bartona500 said:


> I don't think the training method has much to do with the description given to the dog. If so, then we would need all new categories. Lardy Labs, Smartworks Labs, Positive Labs, Mostly Positive labs.
> 
> The differences between types of labs are just generalizations, and there are always exceptions. For instance, everyone talks about British labradors (trial lines) being smaller, but I've read several posts on here of American FC line ancestry lab females who barely reach 45lbs. The bottom line is, the labs in the UK are tested differently than the labs in America... the good pedigree'd labs from the UK are from dogs who did exceedingly well in that type of testing, and the same goes for American labs. The guys in the UK train their dogs a specific way to achieve success in those tests, and American's do likewise. There is much overlap, MUCH. This forum tends to focus on the differences, which is fine.





Lonnie Spann said:


> So here's my question:
> 
> Why do Irish potatoes come from Idaho?
> 
> ...


Their granpotatoes won some best in taste in Ireland. It's a confirmation like though... Short & squatty!


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## Jim Spagna (Apr 21, 2008)

Bartona500 said:


> I don't think the training method has much to do with the description given to the dog. If so, then we would need all new categories. Lardy Labs, Smartworks Labs, Positive Labs, Mostly Positive labs.
> 
> The differences between types of labs are just generalizations, and there are always exceptions. For instance, everyone talks about British labradors (trial lines) being smaller, but I've read several posts on here of American FC line ancestry lab females who barely reach 45lbs. The bottom line is, the labs in the UK are tested differently than the labs in America... the good pedigree'd labs from the UK are from dogs who did exceedingly well in that type of testing, and the same goes for American labs. The guys in the UK train their dogs a specific way to achieve success in those tests, and American's do likewise. There is much overlap, MUCH. This forum tends to focus on the differences, which is fine.


That's the type of answer I was after...thanks!!!!!


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## Dave Combs (Feb 28, 2003)

I should have warned you Jim, it's a tough crowd on here when it comes to this debate. 

Part of the reason I don't frequent this forum very often anymore.

GO DEACON!!!!!


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

Spag,

Were you trying to figure out if dogs that have not been trained using a collar have ever passed the Grand?

Janet


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## Riverdog SC (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff Huntington said:


> Based on sterotypes, control at the line in the Grand shouldn't be a problem.


Yes....... since line manners and obedience is "Of Primary Importance"....... LOL


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## Jim Spagna (Apr 21, 2008)

Janet Kimbrough said:


> Spag,
> 
> Were you trying to figure out if dogs that have not been trained using a collar have ever passed the Grand?
> 
> Janet


No...I was told that there weren't many GRHRCH labs that had purely British ancestry and I was trying to get more information.


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

I very seriously doubt any significant number of labs of "purely British ancestry" have ever run the Grand.


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## pgdavies (Dec 18, 2014)

Ask Haynes Floyd Double TT


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Keep making comments like that and our British (real, living Brit) brethren are likely to starting calling you *PG Tips*...

And in reviving the old Urban Meyer thread, is that you, 'Cutty - McGillicutty - gone Mother Theresa on us?

MG


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

Riverdog SC said:


> Yes....... since line manners and obedience is "Of Primary Importance"....... LOL


I know one that passed the Grand 10 times. Larry McMurray's Pepper. He called it Amish training not British training


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## Camo9244 (Jan 15, 2015)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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