# Who's on your list as a stud for your bitch



## cajundogman (Oct 30, 2008)

Thought this would be an interesting conversation topic because there are so many good dogs out there. I personally have a Grady bitch and currently looking at slider


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Jesse in my signature line is out of FC/AFC Dance Hall Gal (NFC Chopper bitch) x NAFC/FC Grady
Jesse was kind of slow to mature but is doing well, finishing two Ams this fall. Mist of the litter is QAA, 1 made derby list, one has an open win, another has an open 2nd. 

See how close yours would be to this.

http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=59913


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

There's that name again!! That Dance Hall Gal!! Hummmm!


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

FC-AFC Bluenorth's Rock Hard Ten MH WCX


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

Going back to Trumarc's Hollandaise


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## TRUEBLUE (Aug 27, 2007)

DarrinGreene said:


> FC-AFC Bluenorth's Rock Hard Ten MH WCX


Darrin
Very nice dog. Watched him train for awhile. Excellent marker, with a lot of horse power.


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## windwalkers swan song (Oct 25, 2008)

Captain Jack, my Lexi out of Grady and Chopper dam wonderful dog, also have pups 14 mo out of a Mickey breeding to her, they are doing very well. Just wanted to say very nice pedigree, Neil


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

If I could, I would go back to Carbon.
Helen


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

DarrinGreene said:


> FC-AFC Bluenorth's Rock Hard Ten MH WCX[/QUOTE
> 
> Darrin, he is quite the dog, I have watched him and Barb many many times at Sandhill Kennel.
> He has God given talent, I don't blame you for putting him at the top of your list!


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## Troy Tilleraas (Sep 24, 2010)

FC AFC CFC CAFC Barracuda Blue MH


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

NFC FC AFC Maxx Surprise or FC AFC Holland or FC AFC Stinger


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## hillcrestretrievers (Mar 16, 2008)

FC AFC Blue Norths Rock hard Ten for sure!!


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## ndk3819 (Mar 12, 2012)

FC Watermark's Texas Welcome. Have a female by him (not the one I would like to breed, she's pushing 13), and wish I could just clone her. I know he's deceased but I think there are still frozen semen available.


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Lpgar said:


> Going back to Trumarc's Hollandaise


Any pics available of dogs from first breeding, Gar? Please email to [email protected]. When will your breeding be happening?


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

stoney,
this is a pic of "Son" from the first holland x karma. a fine dog!


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## Garduck (Feb 1, 2013)

Top (dream picks) picks
Fordlands Bored out Ford
Creek Robber 
Fargo 2
Patton
lean mac
candlewoods hawkeye shadow

Studs that throw dogs I like a lot
Grady
Bullet
Holland
Ali
Ranger

Studs I'm interested in
Cj's mister t
saber
luke
guide
dougan
mighty mouse
traveler
Boo


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## Garduck (Feb 1, 2013)

Probably add I would like to get my hands on cool fuel "Nitro" pup and a coolwaters knockout punch pup


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## Cayuga Dew (Nov 30, 2014)

ndk3819 said:


> FC Watermark's Texas Welcome. Have a female by him (not the one I would like to breed, she's pushing 13), and wish I could just clone her. I know he's deceased but I think there are still frozen semen available.


Yes there still is frozen semen available. If you hear of a breeding, please PM me. I also like Howdy!


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

I will be repeating the Ford x Abby Ten Bears breeding one final time here in about 4-5 months.


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

I'm guessing you are interested in the first 11 Studs there as well?




Garduck said:


> Top (dream picks) picks
> Fordlands Bored out Ford
> Creek Robber
> Fargo 2
> ...


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## CJCBA (Feb 6, 2014)

Wbf's Man on the Stand 
"MAESTRO" is definitely on my list


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

This is gonna come off bad, however I'm gonna let fly. Why on earth would someone want to share who their stud of choice would be so you could benefit from their investment of time, research, knowledge, and consequently money ? Unless the stud is theirs. Every year I throw out 7 or 10 pedigrees of truly nice dogs that I would have liked to breed to but they died without ever being used. People for the most part do not breed to the right dog for their bitch, they breed to the latest greatest NFC or the local HRCH wonder chocolate.


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

good post Drakehaven.....so true.


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## Garduck (Feb 1, 2013)

Wade said:


> I'm guessing you are interested in the first 11 Studs there as well?


 Those were meant to be top picks going down in certainty by grouping.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> This is gonna come off bad, however I'm gonna let fly. Why on earth would someone want to share who their stud of choice would be so you could benefit from their investment of time, research, knowledge, and consequently money ? Unless the stud is theirs. Every year I throw out 7 or 10 pedigrees of truly nice dogs that I would have liked to breed to but they died without ever being used. People for the most part do not breed to the right dog for their bitch, they breed to the latest greatest NFC or the local HRCH wonder chocolate.


Here here, not trying to be mean or something, but I'll keep those studs under my hat. Put a lot of work into it to find them, a bunch of research to watch them, their offspring, and watching how different lines matchup. Done it all to find the stud that should work for me and my dog, not really interested in having a bunch of people jump on the bandwagon after I've put in so much work. Especially as I have months & months before any of these matchups might happen, worst thing that could happen is if one of my choices were to become popular. So SHHHHHH


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Here here, not trying to be mean or something, but I'll keep those studs under my hat. Put a lot of work into it to find them, a bunch of research to watch them, their offspring, and watching how different lines matchup. Done it all to find the stud that should work for me and my dog, not really interested in having a bunch of people jump on the bandwagon after I've put in so much work. Especially as I have months & months before any of these matchups might happen, worst thing that could happen is if one of my choices were to become popular. So SHHHHHH &#55357;&#56841;


Well Precisely !!!!!! My recommendation of Grady to a friend with a nice Chavez bitch was Grady's 6th breeding, before high point open and NAFC. My recommendation for my guide partner/friend to get the breeding to Carbon's son at all costs instead of Carbon - Frank does not want to breed him ! I don't care talk to Christine, breeding done. 
Nine weeks later that great young dog became NFC Chopper, those puppies from his 1st breeding were 3 weeks old.

Everybody has an opinion on which stud to use. Opinions are like Aholes, everybody has one and most stink...........


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## Garduck (Feb 1, 2013)

I think the notion that one should not reccomend males they find talented is a bit trite. One its no secret who has been successful in the game and who has been successful as a producer. Two given the fact that they are studs while they are alive have a ready supply of semen that usually far exceeds their demand. By giving recommendations more educated folks can help steer new and ignorant individuals in a direction that has the potential to produce nice dogs. Breeding to the best males is good for the sport and for the breed. If your worried this will take away from your ability to compete well train harder and take solace in the fact that the bitch and matching the right male to the right female is still of utmost importance.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

The stud dog of choice will only attract people to your breeding...its the Dam that will sell the litter


What most short sighted people overlook is that they may think their bitch X NAFC/NFC will produce the pup of their dreams, but the truth of the matter is that they have to convince at least a dozen other people that the connection fits their needs and budget..

Unless you own a bitch with AA points or a title you have to chase after a stud...if your have that prized female the potential studs will come calling, as will the potential buyers begging you to do a breeding or to put them on a waiting list when you do decide to breed your bitch


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## Chris Videtto (Nov 4, 2010)

ndk3819 said:


> FC Watermark's Texas Welcome. Have a female by him (not the one I would like to breed, she's pushing 13), and wish I could just clone her. I know he's deceased but I think there are still frozen semen available.


There is a litter sired by Howdie in the classifieds now.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

golfandhunter said:


> DarrinGreene said:
> 
> 
> > FC-AFC Bluenorth's Rock Hard Ten MH WCX[/QUOTE
> ...


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## cajundogman (Oct 30, 2008)

For all those who think they have the secret to studs and they don't want anyone to take there stud away from them why do you even give your opinion. I think your just scared that someone may do better than you and your the only one who knows. For all who chimed in and gave there opinion on a stud thanks for being honest and for making this site enjoyable


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

cajundogman said:


> For all those who think they have the secret to studs and they don't want anyone to take there stud away from them why do you even give your opinion. I think your just scared that someone may do better than you and your the only one who knows. For all who chimed in and gave there opinion on a stud thanks for being honest and for making this site enjoyable


When Mary Howley stood AFC CFC CAFC Barracuda Blue at stud in WI I bred to him, he bred 17 bitches while here. Mine was the only Black, the only one sired by an FC and the only one with a HT title SH. The average price of my black puppies was far less the chocolates from every other litter and from my EXHAUSTIVE research I was the only person who produced a dog from any of those 17 breeding that placed in a licensed trial. Think about this for a minute, all those puppies and nothing of quality that bettered the breed. That was Nov 1997 until 1998. One year and 3 months later after my dog was a MH with Q placements I called Mary "inquiring" as to her opinion on who I should breed by bitch to this time. 
The EPIC ASS CHEWING I received from her is still ringing in my ears ! And I quote " for me to tell you who you should breed your bitch to is the stupidest thing I've ever heard"
How do I know anything about your bitch ? Your the only person who knows anything about your bitch, her tendencies, health history, and ability. Go to a trial and watch dogs and talk to trainers and owners.....CLICK ! Next time I seen Mary after a warm greeting remembering my name and my girlfriends name (who she met for 5 minutes 3 years earlier) was who did you breed Belle to ? And she remembered my dogs pedigree and told how lovey she thought that bitch was. To say I was floored would be an understatement. So I asked. Why the ass chewing ? Then she explained in great detail - I'll give ya'll the Cliff notes. This is what I do for a living, why would I give you the tools for free to make it harder on myself to make a living. There are people in this game worthy of venturing an opinion on what stud to use and then there is everybody else. 
Most people worthy wont tell you.....for free. Think about that for a minute.

Retraction ***** Nancy Planasch bred her QAA chocolate bitch to Cuda while he was there. This I did know but in my feverish hunt and peck typing I mentally omitted this. My sincere apologies Nancy.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> When Mary Howley stood AFC CFC CAFC Barracuda Blue at stud in WI I bred to him, he bred 17 bitches while here. Mine was the only Black, the only one sired by an FC and the only one with a HT title SH. The average price of my black puppies was far less the chocolates from every other litter and from my EXHAUSTIVE research I was the only person who produced a dog from any of those 17 breeding that placed in a licensed trial. Think about this for a minute, all those puppies and nothing of quality that bettered the breed. That was 1998. One year and 3 months later after my dog was a MH with Q placements I called Mary "inquiring" as to her opinion on who I should breed by bitch to this time.
> The EPIC ASS CHEWING I received from her is still ringing in my ears ! And I quote " for me to tell you who you should breed your bitch to is the stupidest thing I've ever heard"
> How do I know anything about your bitch ? Your the only person who knows anything about your bitch, her tendencies, health history, and ability. Go to a trial and watch dogs and talk to trainers and owners.....CLICK ! Next time I seen Mary after a warm greeting remembering my name and my girlfriends name (who she met for 5 minutes 3 years earlier) was who did you breed Belle to ? And she remembered my dogs pedigree and told how lovey she thought that bitch was. To say I was floored would be an understatement. So I asked. Why the ass chewing ? Then she explained in great detail - I'll give ya'll the Cliff notes. This is what I do for a living, why would I give you the tools for free to make it harder on myself to make a living. There are people in this game worthy of venturing an opinion on what stud to use and then there is everybody else.
> Most people worthy wont tell you.....for free. Think about that for a minute.


I'm with cajundog---the point of the forum is to discuss, share and learn.


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## cajundogman (Oct 30, 2008)

If you think you are that worthy and knowledgable then why are you chiming in on this subject. Maybe you should be teaching seminars or making DVDs to sell instead of thinking you your comments should be paid for. It's you that's mskes this sight and others fall apart. Good luck in your fame to fortune with your knowledge of dog training and pedigrees


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

I think it would add a lot to these kinds of threads if people in the know would share why they thought particular studs might be good matches to particular bitches.


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## downbirds (Jan 19, 2012)

. I like chocolates, with that said, pouring over all the material I can, and talking to people who's opinion I value. For me I am pairing my chocolate bitch with FC AFC High Tech Ceo (Gates). He's Chocolate factored. Then the three p's, performance, 127.5 AA points, 7 Nationals 2x finalist. Pedigree, Lean Mac x Nafc Fc Hatie McBunn, five titled littermates. Producer, with figures from Retriever results, approximately 39% of his progeny that run FT's have earned points. Since Jan. 11' his offspring have over 40 AA wins, by multiple dogs. Sired 2x national obedience champ. Comparing my list of studs, he stood out as the best for what I wanted. He is an EIC carrier but my girl is clear. I want a dog that will hopefully have all the skill sets to compete, and none of them will be effected so I don't care about his EIC status.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Renee most people over value their ability to predict the outcome of any breeding, sometimes the ones that look the best don't turn out that way and the opposite is also true. The realities of breeding dogs today are that it is expensive and maybe the best stud choice for people like CDM is one of expediency and practicality. The reality for someone like CDM is that a breeding to a long dead stud with frozen semen just does not make economic sense for a first breeding or perhaps for any breeding. Anyone thinking the sire will sell the puppies should perhaps rethink the reason for breeding their bitch.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

EdA said:


> Renee most people over value their ability to predict the outcome of any breeding, sometimes the ones that look the best don't turn out that way and the opposite is also true. The realities of breeding dogs today are that it is expensive and maybe the best stud choice for people like CDM is one of expediency and practicality. The reality for someone like CDM is that a breeding to a long dead stud with frozen semen just does not make economic sense for a first breeding or perhaps for any breeding. *Anyone thinking the sire will sell the puppies should perhaps rethink the reason for breeding their bitch*.


Thank You for posting this ^^^^^^


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

cajundogman said:


> For all those who think they have the secret to studs and they don't want anyone to take there stud away from them why do you even give your opinion. I think your just scared that someone may do better than you and your the only one who knows. For all who chimed in and gave there opinion on a stud thanks for being honest and for making this site enjoyable


Not really this at all; just that if one has a girl worth breeding, one should put in the leg work and find the stud that will work best for that particular dog. One should not take recommendations of who's good based on a list of names complied by people who do not know you, your dog, or the stud. If your going to take advise, it should come from trusted advisors, that actually know your dog, and can give you a list of reasons a particular stud would complement her. The list should have many dogs, with distinct characteristics that will add to the female; not just those that people are familiar with; those with the highest titles, or those studs everybody's using this season. Most could throw out 100's of arbitrary names for possible studs, some dogs that might work, some dogs that are completely insuitable to your bitch but good matches for others. It is human nature to jump on bandwagons, base the production of a litter entirely on the stud but mom adds at least 50% and if you don't know the female, you have no basis on how a particular match might work out. As you say their are no secrets out there, everything is available to those who look, but actually going out and doing that looking, for yourself, you own girl, your own litter, is important to ensure your making an informed decision.


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## cajundogman (Oct 30, 2008)

Dr Ed thanks for your input. Some people Thake a lil topic thats under discussion for fun and try and make it into this big deal. I appreciate your input to this topic without thinking your the smartest or brightest like others do. This is what this site is supposed to be anout


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## quackaholic (Aug 26, 2013)

mitty said:


> I think it would add a lot to these kinds of threads if people in the know would share why they thought particular studs might be good matches to particular bitches.


It would be nice if the people in the "know" would like to share some knowledge rather than belittling the new comers. I Think all forums have those that would rather toot their own horn rather than give real advice. If they don't want you to know that could keep their two cents to themselves.


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## quackaholic (Aug 26, 2013)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Not really this at all; just that if one has a girl worth breeding, one should put in the leg work and find the stud that will work best for that particular dog. One should not take recommendations of who's good based on a list of names complied by people who do not know you, your dog, or the stud. If your going to take advise, it should come from trusted advisors, that actually know your dog, and can give you a list of reasons a particular stud would complement her. The list should have many dogs, with distinct characteristics that will add to the female; not just those that people are familiar with; those with the highest titles, or those studs everybody's using this season. Most could throw out 100's of arbitrary names for possible studs, some dogs that might work, some dogs that are completely insuitable to your bitch but good matches for others. It is human nature to jump on bandwagons, base the production of a litter entirely on the stud but mom adds at least 50% and if you don't know the female, you have no basis on how a particular match might work out. As you say their are no secrets out there, everything is available to those who look, but actually going out and doing that looking, for yourself, you own girl, your own litter, is important to ensure your making an informed decision.



Love this post.


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## cajundogman (Oct 30, 2008)

Hunt em up I totaly agree with you but I never said I wanted anyone to pick my stud for me. All I did was start a topic on studs people are thinking of using for there female. Everyone needs to stop taking this topic the wrong way and don't respond to it if they don't have anything positive to say


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

downbirds said:


> . I like chocolates, with that said, pouring over all the material I can, and talking to people who's opinion I value. For me I am pairing my chocolate bitch with FC AFC High Tech Ceo (Gates). He's Chocolate factored. Then the three p's, performance, 127.5 AA points, 7 Nationals 2x finalist. Pedigree, Lean Mac x Nafc Fc Hatie McBunn, five titled littermates. Producer, with figures from Retriever results, approximately 39% of his progeny that run FT's have earned points. Since Jan. 11' his offspring have over 40 AA wins, by multiple dogs. Sired 2x national obedience champ. Comparing my list of studs, he stood out as the best for what I wanted. He is an EIC carrier but my girl is clear. I want a dog that will hopefully have all the skill sets to compete, and none of them will be effected so I don't care about his EIC status.


Now this sounds like a solid plan !


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Calling out a particular stud when asked "whose YOUR favorite" or "whose on top of YOUR list" might give someone a chance to a look at a dog they might not otherwise consider. He may not run on their circuit or something and mentioning a quality animal may help them do a better job of researching. 

If you're all that worried they might breed to your favorite and then end up with the next NFC instead of you... 

Well, nothing needs to really be said about that.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

EdA said:


> Renee most people over value their ability to predict the outcome of any breeding, sometimes the ones that look the best don't turn out that way and the opposite is also true. The realities of breeding dogs today are that it is expensive and maybe the best stud choice for people like CDM is one of expediency and practicality. The reality for someone like CDM is that a breeding to a long dead stud with frozen semen just does not make economic sense for a first breeding or perhaps for any breeding. Anyone thinking the sire will sell the puppies should perhaps rethink the reason for breeding their bitch.


Ed, Agree completely. Never in any advertising of any breeding I have done have I ever stated that the pups would be this, that or the other thing. They are gonna eat and **** that's it.


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## cajundogman (Oct 30, 2008)

Amen!! Tks Darrin


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

quackaholic said:


> It would be nice if the people in the "know" would like to share some knowledge rather than belittling the new comers. I Think all forums have those that would rather toot their own horn rather than give real advice. If they don't want you to know that could keep their two cents to themselves.


Free lunches are nice......but when someone tells you to get your own lunch they are the bad guy ?


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## Repaupo (Apr 28, 2005)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> When Mary Howley stood AFC CFC CAFC Barracuda Blue at stud in WI I bred to him, he bred 17 bitches while here. Mine was the only Black, the only one sired by an FC and the only one with a HT title SH. The average price of my black puppies was far less the chocolates from every other litter and from my EXHAUSTIVE research I was the only person who produced a dog from any of those 17 breeding that placed in a licensed trial. Think about this for a minute, all those puppies and nothing of quality that bettered the breed. That was Nov 1997 until 1998. One year and 3 months later after my dog was a MH with Q placements I called Mary "inquiring" as to her opinion on who I should breed by bitch to this time.
> The EPIC ASS CHEWING I received from her is still ringing in my ears ! And I quote " for me to tell you who you should breed your bitch to is the stupidest thing I've ever heard"
> How do I know anything about your bitch ? Your the only person who knows anything about your bitch, her tendencies, health history, and ability. Go to a trial and watch dogs and talk to trainers and owners.....CLICK ! Next time I seen Mary after a warm greeting remembering my name and my girlfriends name (who she met for 5 minutes 3 years earlier) was who did you breed Belle to ? And she remembered my dogs pedigree and told how lovey she thought that bitch was. To say I was floored would be an understatement. So I asked. Why the ass chewing ? Then she explained in great detail - I'll give ya'll the Cliff notes. This is what I do for a living, why would I give you the tools for free to make it harder on myself to make a living. There are people in this game worthy of venturing an opinion on what stud to use and then there is everybody else.
> Most people worthy wont tell you.....for free. Think about that for a minute.
> ...


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

DarrinGreene said:


> Calling out a particular stud when asked "whose YOUR favorite" or "whose on top of YOUR list" might give someone a chance to a look at a dog they might not otherwise consider. He may not run on their circuit or something and mentioning a quality animal may help them do a better job of researching.
> 
> If you're all that worried they might breed to your favorite and then end up with the next NFC instead of you...
> 
> Well, nothing needs to really be said about that.


Darrin, Im more than willing to share some knowledge. Reread my post about Grady and Chopper. There was no consulting fee. Had no idea how those puppies would turn out but the owners of those bitches took the time to call and discuss what dogs I had seen an what I knew about them and I in turn asked about what their bitch had produced to what sire and BLAH BLAH BLAH then I gave a - here is what I would do. I've never told anyone what they should do - ASS chewing from Mary. People need to NOT accept what get spoon fed to them on the internet, they need to go to an event or watch the dog train. If that is not possible for them to get info then maybe they rethink breeding Pickles.....


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## quackaholic (Aug 26, 2013)

cajundogman said:


> Thought this would be an interesting conversation topic because there are so many good dogs out there. I personally have a Grady bitch and currently looking at slider


Where did he ask for your dogs or what anyone would do. Just asked what we were considering for ourselves. And he was interested in others ideal breeding. Just for conversation. Not so we could stake a claim on your breeding. Most of us don't make a living off our dogs but we care about the breed. If you don't want someone to know, keep it to yourself. In other words just don't reply.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

cajundogman said:


> Thought this would be an interesting conversation topic because there are so many good dogs out there. I personally have a Grady bitch and currently looking at slider


I am using 'Fergus' on my bitch


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## quackaholic (Aug 26, 2013)

As for my girl, I have 20+ months before I make the final decision. I'm interested in a dog named Alfie, if I don't use my old boy first.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Repaupo said:


> DRAKEHAVEN said:
> 
> 
> > When Mary Howley stood AFC CFC CAFC Barracuda Blue at stud in WI I bred to him, he bred 17 bitches while here. Mine was the only Black, the only one sired by an FC and the only one with a HT title SH. The average price of my black puppies was far less the chocolates from every other litter and from my EXHAUSTIVE research I was the only person who produced a dog from any of those 17 breeding that placed in a licensed trial. Think about this for a minute, all those puppies and nothing of quality that bettered the breed. That was Nov 1997 until 1998. One year and 3 months later after my dog was a MH with Q placements I called Mary "inquiring" as to her opinion on who I should breed by bitch to this time.
> ...


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

This is my first and last post to this thread.

Drakehaven, every post you have put up on this thread is, let me say, "I''m embarrassed for you".

Someone asks a question and you use it as an excuse to berate the original poster. Why even respond to the OP ? I only know of Mary Howley by reputation but maybe she can get away with what you say she said. I'm going to guess she knows more than you, but maybe not, as you seem to be putting yourself in her category.
Again, "I'M Embarrassed For You".[/QUOTE]

I never "seem" to do anything that leaves room for doubt.
I'm not even close to Mary's league, and I did not put myself in her category - you seemed to.

To be honest I think I been embarrassed 3 times in my whole 43 years, this internet debate ain't gonna be one of them. Never even met the O.P. and I don't berate people on the internet. Berating is something I save for up close and personal. 
The thing about the typed word is you can't assess someone's tone.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

I think prehaps this question was asked incorrectly, rather than asking which stud is on your list to plan to use for your bitch, future breedin? It would be more informative to ask which stud, did you choose to use (recently-historically) for your bitch and why? What did you hope to get... What did you get? positive negative etc,? Seems that such a question would get much more informative answers; the breeding has already been done and result can be tabulated. Of course it might also lead into a bit too much that might be seen as litter advertising, you just can't win.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

mitty said:


> I'm with cajundog---the point of the forum is to discuss, share and learn.


Your not learning anything from my posts ? Then that's the fault of the teacher. How could I help you learn that the best research you can do is your own ? That some people may have the experience to share worthwhile info. even if it is what not to do. 

I'm being sincere. Did I not share ? Did I not give you the opportunity to discuss my experience ?


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

cajundogman said:


> If you think you are that worthy and knowledgable then why are you chiming in on this subject. Maybe you should be teaching seminars or making DVDs to sell instead of thinking you your comments should be paid for. It's you that's mskes this sight and others fall apart. Good luck in your fame to fortune with your knowledge of dog training and pedigrees


Why chime in ?? For the sake of the dogs that will be produced because people pick sires with a truck load of Garbage in their genetic make up that gets hush hushed by the establishment. You said something negative about Boomer - shame on you...... meanwhile Boomers brother is dysplastic as all get out and his father bit the owners grandkid.
Honestly I have no interest in WHORING out my knowledge for financial gain. Also I don't need the money. As far as fame - im not egotistical -in plain English I don't give a rats ass if anyone in the dog game lavishes me with their adulation. 

Don't hate the player, Hate the game......


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Your not learning anything from my posts ? Then that's the fault of the teacher. How could I help you learn that the best research you can do is your own ? That some people may have the experience to share worthwhile info. even if it is what not to do.
> 
> I'm being sincere. Did I not share ? Did I not give you the opportunity to discuss my experience ?


What I learned is that you were rude to Mary Howley, and she let you know it; you therefore now believe that no one should ask questions about matching studs to bitches on RTF.


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## coachmo (Apr 23, 2009)

What am I'm missing here? The original OP asked what stud would an individual use for their bitch. He's not asking for trade secrets or insider trading info. As Hunt'Emup pointed out the question could have been worded differently to include more pertinent info. but come on if you don't want to answer just move on! We must be dealing with some pretty important people here! It's a post on a retriever forum for goodness sakes!


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

mitty said:


> What I learned is that you were rude to Mary Howley, and she let you know it; you therefore now believe that no one should ask questions about matching studs to bitches on RTF.


No, you assume I must have been rude. I was very polite. Why on earth would I call anyone wanting something for free and be rude ? 
Im sure if I was rude she would have said so.

What I believe is that it does not matter what stud you pick or who tells you which one to use if you don't understand that it is MORE important that you have a quality bitch with traits worthy of being reproduced.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

this is a funny thread, i like it a great deal!

i am glad to share everthing i know with the op, drake and others here about breeding dogs. when the male is done the two will typically be locked together in what is often called "a tie". this "tie" could last for as long as thirty minutes. if you are supervising the activity, be calm and patient and do not alarm the breeding pair as injury could occur. dogs are also able to do this without supervision. that's all i know!;-)


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

roseberry said:


> this is a funny thread, i like it a great deal!
> 
> i am glad to share everthing i know with the op, drake and others here about breeding dogs. when the male is done the two will typically be locked together in what is often called "a tie". this "tie" could last for as long as thirty minutes. if you are supervising the activity, be calm and patient and do not alarm the breeding pair as injury could occur. dogs are also able to do this without supervision. that's all i know!;-)


Don't touch the Red Rocket !!!!


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## Cayuga Dew (Nov 30, 2014)

This thread has crashed and burned for me!
unsubscribing way too late! I should have hours ago!


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## windwalkers swan song (Oct 25, 2008)

John this is what happens when you don't do your own homework, went for choc factor got a little under the chin !


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## Kirk Major (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm going to FC AFC Close Hauled to Windward with my girl. I've seen some nice pups sired by him that seem very biddable and mark exceptionally well.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

White "English" labs 



This isn't for me but I know someone who is looking at labs and has found these white "English" labs. I'd this people trying to sell a "rare" color? What do you guys know about them? 

Meanwhile, we have this on aisle 11 of the funny factory........it's truly hopeless.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Darrin, Im more than willing to share some knowledge. Reread my post about Grady and Chopper. There was no consulting fee. Had no idea how those puppies would turn out but the owners of those bitches took the time to call and discuss what dogs I had seen an what I knew about them and I in turn asked about what their bitch had produced to what sire and BLAH BLAH BLAH then I gave a - here is what I would do. I've never told anyone what they should do - ASS chewing from Mary. People need to NOT accept what get spoon fed to them on the internet, they need to go to an event or watch the dog train. If that is not possible for them to get info then maybe they rethink breeding Pickles.....


We all need more people that are willing to help. Sorry if I misread your intent.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Darrin, 

No apologies required.

After I beat up Hunting lab pedigree and EE could not come up with a bead on your bitches breeding. Is there a pedigree somewhere (know the sire side) ?


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## Cptmorgan177 (Oct 11, 2014)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> White "English" labs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Drake,
Just to clarify I knew the responses I would get on this post before I posted it.
As you could probably tell from my open ended question, I posted this different thread to prove to someone what I had been telling them for months now. They aren't listening to what I have to say, so I put it on the forum to educate him.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Cptmorgan177 said:


> Drake,
> Just to clarify I knew the responses I would get on this post before I posted it.
> As you could probably tell from my open ended question, I posted this different thread to prove to someone what I had been telling them for months now. They aren't listening to what I have to say, so I put it on the forum to educate him.


Good thinking. Someone once said your an idiot in your home town 250 miles away your a genius. Nobody believes you when you tell them it takes someone they don't know from Adam to get thru to them.


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Good thinking. Someone once said your an idiot in your home town 250 miles away your a genius. Nobody believes you when you tell them it takes someone they don't know from Adam to get thru to them.


Ill always remember this. It was worth wading through the thread for.


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## Cptmorgan177 (Oct 11, 2014)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Good thinking. Someone once said your an idiot in your home town 250 miles away your a genius. Nobody believes you when you tell them it takes someone they don't know from Adam to get thru to them.


Yes! That's what I've been dealing with. The thread helped tremendously. Now I have my stepfather convinced to look at the dog not the color. I'm going to try and hook them up with someone on their side of the country.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

jhnnythndr said:


> Ill always remember this. It was worth wading through the thread for.


thndr and cpt,

let's not be too hasty to bestow the honor of providing a pearl of wisdom on drake. if you boys had done a little "wading" in your sunday school reading material you woulda already known this truth.

Luke 4:24 And He said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. KJV


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## Troy Tilleraas (Sep 24, 2010)

Kirk Major said:


> I'm going to FC AFC Close Hauled to Windward with my girl. I've seen some nice pups sired by him that seem very biddable and mark exceptionally well.


Kirk, I bred to "Sailor" 2x repeat breedings and produced 4 QAA dogs with 4 different owners. 3 different trainers. Female wasMH MHR out of NFC Deweys Drake. He worked on her-very pleased.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Darrin,
> 
> No apologies required.
> 
> After I beat up Hunting lab pedigree and EE could not come up with a bead on your bitches breeding. Is there a pedigree somewhere (know the sire side) ?


Thanks for making an effort to think through it. Her Dam is Elsie - Good Ideas Holy Cow MH (QAA)

http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=49871


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

roseberry said:


> thndr and cpt,
> 
> let's not be too hasty to bestow the honor of providing a pearl of wisdom on drake. if you boys had done a little "wading" in your sunday school reading material you woulda already known this truth.
> 
> Luke 4:24 And He said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. KJV



Nothing new under the sun...


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post 

thndr and cpt,

let's not be too hasty to bestow the honor of providing a pearl of wisdom on drake. if you boys had done a little "wading" in your sunday school reading material you woulda already known this truth.

Luke 4:24 And He said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. KJV

Nothing new under the sun... 


Quick reply to this message Reply Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message 


Don't put pearls of any kind on me Dude's, like I said I ripped it off from someone else. Thanks for giving credit to the author though.


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## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

cajundogman said:


> If you think you are that worthy and knowledgable then why are you chiming in on this subject. Maybe you should be teaching seminars or making DVDs to sell instead of thinking you your comments should be paid for. It's you that's mskes this sight and others fall apart. Good luck in your fame to fortune with your knowledge of dog training and pedigrees



LOL.......your comments are so true......some people are a hero in there own mind


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Razor Labs said:


> LOL.......your comments are so true......some people are a hero in there own mind


Scott,

So does this mean your unfriending me on FB ? Or your not gonna ask me about anymore dogs I have for sale ? The ones I'm honest about, and tell you that I don't think you would be interested because if I don't want to keep them for breeding why would I sell them to you to breed ? But hey next time I won't operate with integrity, Ill just sell ya the dog ! NOT !


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## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Scott,
> 
> So does this mean your unfriending me on FB ? Or your not gonna ask me about anymore dogs I have for sale ? The ones I'm honest about, and tell you that I don't think you would be interested because if I don't want to keep them for breeding why would I sell them to you to breed ? But hey next time I won't operate with integrity, Ill just sell ya the dog ! NOT !



Ya that's it.....WHATEVER!


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Callin a Spade a Spade


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## Scott Krueger (Jan 25, 2008)

when Jook gets her hrch and mh this season she will hopefully be bred to her/my trainers old stud and a great dog.....hopefully has her gh by 4 or 5..not breeding til at least 4 unless i can afford her titles quicker..

http://blueskyretrievers.com/grhrch_uh_blue_skys_code_three_mh


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Choc24/7 said:


> when Jook gets her hrch and mh this season she will hopefully be bred to her/my trainers old stud and a great dog.....hopefully has her gh by 4 or 5..not breeding til at least 4 unless i can afford her titles quicker..
> 
> http://blueskyretrievers.com/grhrch_uh_blue_skys_code_three_mh


That boy still alive ? Your bitch Chocolate ? Your bitches pedigree ?


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