# FC AFC Dare to Dream 'Cosmo'



## Love's Labradors (Jan 17, 2011)

I am seeking how to get in touch with the owner of Cosmo, Dare to Dream. I believe he is owned by Kathy Olson in Idaho? Has Cosmo been tested for EIC? Results? Or does anyone know if he is a carrier?

Thanks,

Jana


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

Cosmo passed away about 8 years ago. The EIC test is only a few years old.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

A request for anyone with a confirmed affected offspring might be helpful as many of his progeny have been tested


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

If you are thinking of breeding to him and your dog is clear, go for it.
I have owned and trained several Cosmo pups and they are incredibly intelligent and very motivated retrievers.
As soon as I get rebuilt back from a fire, I will be looking for a Cosmo pup.
MP


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## duxbac (Apr 22, 2009)

There is an ad and info for Cosmo on the Castile Creek web site, puppy page.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Cathie Olson does live in Boise Idaho..here is the info on her ad in the Retriever News (page 51, Aug 2010 )


Cathie Olson: [email protected]

4012 Albion

Boise Idaho 83705-2105

she lists a cell # but I hate to just put up her number at random


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

For what it's worth, I had a friend with an affected Cosmo offspring. Draw your own conclusions.


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

I think there are some very big name dogs long gone, that have produced affected offspring.

Makes me see no sense in only breeding clear to clear today.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Mike Perry said:


> and very motivated retrievers.
> 
> MP


Not going for understatement of the year there are you? 

Couldn't help myself...


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Charles C. said:


> For what it's worth, I had a friend with an affected Cosmo offspring. Draw your own conclusions.


Only one conclusion that can be drawn, correct?


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

I bred my Stepper bitch Tanks Alot for the Dance-MH to Cosmo twice. Awesome pups both breedings. Hard going, smart, excellent markers. My girl, Gettin' Jiggy Widdit-MH, is really talented, and TONS of fun to run!!!
The 2 litters produced FC-Bayou Teche Tex (2009 National Finalist), FC-Butch's Dream Code of TCR, FTCH-Dream Dancin', Dancin' Dreamer Kate-MH ( dam to FC-Blackwaters Last Resort),
Jiggy-MH, 1QAA, and a few other successful HT pups.

Several of the pups are EIC carriers. 

If Dancy were still alive today, I'd breed her to Cosmo a 3rd time- AT THE DROP of a HAT!!!


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## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Yes Cosmo is a carrier of EIC


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

mjh345 said:


> Only one conclusion that can be drawn, correct?


Technically, I think 2 conclusions can be drawn from that.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

whitefoot said:


> Technically, I think 2 conclusions can be drawn from that.


The OP wanted to know whether or not he was a carrier.
If he has sired an affected then he has to be a carrier of the gene


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## Ironwood (Sep 25, 2007)

Cosmo can be either a carrier or affected. Two conclusions to be drawn.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Ironwood said:


> Cosmo can be either a carrier or affected. Two conclusions to be drawn.


No, look on OFA, he has produced clears.


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## Ironwood (Sep 25, 2007)

Erins Edge thank you. I stand corrected.


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

lol. war of semantics. 

If dog has produced affecteds, 2 conclusions can be drawn.

If dog has produced clear and affecteds, only 1 conclusion can be drawn.


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> No, look on OFA, he has produced clears.


I had a very nice bitch out of Cosmo who was Clear. She produced a litter of very fine pups and was an extremely intelligent easily trainable dog. 
MP


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

whitefoot said:


> lol. war of semantics.
> 
> If dog has produced affecteds, 2 conclusions can be drawn.
> 
> If dog has produced clear and affecteds, only 1 conclusion can be drawn.


 No war on semantics needed. He has produced both affecteds, clears and carriers so therefore he could only have been a carrier.
Now I am done beating this dead horse {or dog}


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Well, one thing we know he produced is a lot of great marking, hard running dogs. If you want genetic perfection, better go to a test tube.


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

mjh345 said:


> No war on semantics needed. He has produced both affecteds, clears and carriers so therefore he could only have been a carrier.
> Now I am done beating this dead horse {or dog}


I was only kidding about the war. Sorry. I didn't know that he had produced any clear pups when I wrote that. I'll crawl back under my rock now...


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## dio82 (Jul 21, 2008)

I have a Cosmo pup and he just tested Clear.


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## The Snows (Jul 19, 2004)

My avatar is our Cosmo male who's clear as well.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

The Snows said:


> My avatar is our Cosmo male who's clear as well.


Mine in Avatar also


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

huntinman said:


> Well, one thing we know he produced is a lot of great marking, hard running dogs. If you want genetic perfection, better go to a test tube.


How are they in the duck blind?

The only two I've hunted with whined the entire hunt when not working and one was a MH. It drove me crazy and I wouldn't own a dog that whined all the time while hunting. I'm not talking about an occasional yip or bark but a constant whine. One of the two couldn't sit still for longer than 10 seconds and his owner was constantly trying to keep him still with an e-collar and beating on the dog.

My experience is that they are great for FTing but a pain in the neck for duck hunting.


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

Franco said:


> How are they in the duck blind?
> 
> The only two I've hunted with whined the entire hunt when not working and one was a MH. It drove me crazy and I wouldn't own a dog that whined all the time while hunting. I'm not talking about an occasional yip or bark but a constant whine. One of the two couldn't sit still for longer than 10 seconds and his owner was constantly trying to keep him still with an e-collar and beating on the dog.
> 
> My experience is that they are great for FTing but a pain in the neck for duck hunting.


Did your buddy try leaving a bumper in the dogs mouth? or maybe standing on his head? LOL


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## MIDTNGRNHEAD (Jun 17, 2004)

Franco-that describes our bitch out of Cosmo and a Lean Mac Bitch. Decribes her to a tee. She hunts no more. Nice HT dog but has breaking issues.


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## dio82 (Jul 21, 2008)

My male Cosmo dog is not very good in a duck blind. He does whine all the time no matter the force used. However, he is an exceptional pheasant dog with stamina for all day hunting. They need to be actively moving in my personal experience.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

savage25xtreme said:


> Did your buddy try leaving a bumper in the dogs mouth? or maybe standing on his head? LOL


We tried several methods. Hand over muzzle with slight pressure, quiet command with a nick. Firmer grip with a bigger nick with the quiet command. Slap on top of the head with STFU! None of it worked.


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

I agree the whining can be a pain.I bred a Midknight Code Breaker x Trumarc Zip Code daughter (Patty) to Cosmo before he had his FC.I watched Cos and the littermates that Jimmy Gonia and Ray Bly had as I gunned Opens here in Oregon at that time.He was thrilling to watch.The female I kept was probably the birdiest thing on 4 legs.I had to really get on her case.She did quiet down hunting but I could never get her settled down enough to run in hunt tests.If she saw a bird go down it was hers.She'd go through 60 feet of blackberries after a wounded goose.I would breed to him again in a heartbeat.

Jeff G


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

A friend of mine has a Cosmo pup that is great in the blind and at hunt tests. Yellow female has her UH HRCH, SH and I think one Master pass. She just got back from a week of crane hunting in west Texas. Still no noise issues. She is a little dicey at the line-not noise but creeps. Oh, FWIW, she is clear.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Franco said:


> How are they in the duck blind?
> 
> The only two I've hunted with whined the entire hunt when not working and one was a MH. It drove me crazy and I wouldn't own a dog that whined all the time while hunting. I'm not talking about an occasional yip or bark but a constant whine. One of the two couldn't sit still for longer than 10 seconds and his owner was constantly trying to keep him still with an e-collar and beating on the dog.
> 
> My experience is that they are great for FTing but a pain in the neck for duck hunting.


I've got one that's 11 years old. A bitch. She has retrieved hundreds of ducks over the years. Out of Cosmo and FC/AFC Northwind Gale Force (a Webshires Honest Abe bitch). My Cosmo bitch whined when she was a derby dog, but came to learn that it was not acceptable during hunting. I hunted with her a LOT 3-5 days a week almost all season long for 10 duck seasons. This dog was too wild for trials, but one of the best hunting dogs I've ever had. She never stops watching the sky. And she will not quit on a cripple. She's pretty much retired now. But I wouldn't trade her for anything.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

huntinman said:


> I've got one that's 11 years old. A bitch. She has retrieved hundreds of ducks over the years. Out of Cosmo and FC/AFC Northwind Gale Force (a Webshires Honest Abe bitch). My Cosmo bitch whined when she was a derby dog, but came to learn that it was not acceptable during hunting. I hunted with her a LOT 3-5 days a week almost all season long for 10 duck seasons. This dog was too wild for trials, but one of the best hunting dogs I've ever had. She never stops watching the sky. And she will not quit on a cripple. She's pretty much retired now. But I wouldn't trade her for anything.


How did you get her to stop whining when the action is slow?


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

I own an 8 yr old Cosmo daughter that is an UNBELIEVABLE gundog. Whines at home when it's feeding time, or when she wants some loving, but great in the duck blind.
She whined for a while when she was young, but she learned in a hurry that it was not acceptable, and picked up nothing if she even made a peep.
One of her sisters whines a little, but not enough to worry about. I LOVE hunting with both of these bitches!!!

I also have friends that have Cosmo pups that are exceptional gundogs as well. Hard going, but quiet.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Franco said:


> How did you get her to stop whining when the action is slow?


Franco, I just kept a collar on her all the time when she was young. Bark collar in the kennel or crate. In the blind, if she whined I would give her a nick and say quiet. That was when she was real young, first season or so... You are right, she whined most when it was slow. But, like I said, she learned that I just was not going to put up with it so she quit doing it. I sure hate to see her get so old. She has been a nice hunting dog and a very tough little bitch (65 lbs)


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

David Maddox said:


> I own an 8 yr old Cosmo daughter that is an UNBELIEVABLE gundog. Whines at home when it's feeding time, or when she wants some loving, but great in the duck blind.
> She whined for a while when she was young, but she learned in a hurry that it was not acceptable, and picked up nothing if she even made a peep.
> One of her sisters whines a little, but not enough to worry about. I LOVE hunting with both of these bitches!!!
> 
> I also have friends that have Cosmo pups that are exceptional gundogs as well. Hard going, but quiet.


Dave, this is not a realistic or practical solution on a duck or goose hunt.

Me thinks your love for your dog blinds you;-)

Short of frying the dog to kingdomcome, how do you get a dog that whines constantly to stop?


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

Franco said:


> Short of frying the dog to kingdomcome, how do you get a dog that whines constantly to stop?


Duct tape??


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

huntinman said:


> Franco, I just kept a collar on her all the time when she was young. Bark collar in the kennel or crate. In the blind, if she whined I would give her a nick and say quiet. That was when she was real young, first season or so... You are right, she whined most when it was slow. But, like I said, she learned that I just was not going to put up with it so she quit doing it. I sure hate to see her get so old. She has been a nice hunting dog and a very tough little bitch (65 lbs)


Bill, we all love our dogs that we've had for a longtime. I understand correcting barking and yipping issues at the line in training or in a kennel. But, I've seen quite a few whinners and have never known any of them to learn not to whine without nearly having to kill the dog repeatedly. And, most of the time that doesn't work. Is this what you are saying cured your dog?

Frankley, I'd rather not have a dog that is predisposed to whinning but, that's just me.

P S
I know Cosmo has produced many wonderful FT dogs. Most experienced judges do not nit-pick line issues as they would rather see what a dog can do in the field. Hunting is different. I for one do not want to be annoyed all hunt long with a whining dog. And, not all Cosmo offspring whine and there are other studs that produce dogs that are predisposed to whinning.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Franco said:


> Bill, we all love our dogs that we've had for a longtime. I understand correcting barking and yipping issues at the line in training or in a kennel. But, I've seen quite a few whinners and have never known any of them to learn not to whine without nearly having to kill the dog repeatedly. And, most of the time that doesn't work. Is this what you are saying cured your dog?
> 
> Frankley, I'd rather not have a dog that is predisposed to whinning but, that's just me.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying I just said "pretty please". There was a fair amount of pressure involved and in was consistent. However, we did hunt a lot, and like you I don't like noise in the blind. In fact, I can't stand it. So that probably helped make the noise training very consistent and Insistent. The big thing is, she wanted to work, more than she wanted to make the noise, so finally she got the hint. She got to the point where she would actually hold her mouth shut while exhaling and her lips would flap out when her breath would push through them! Funny, but that's how hard she would try to keep her mouth closed! 

But I know what you mean, there are those from the line that never stopped. With some of them, it was more about the creeping or breaking or spinning. But they have some eyes!


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

Boy this got away from the op's question. I had a Cosmo son that I bought as a puppy to train and sell as a started dog. I just wanted to train a fire breathing fool.
I took that dog hunting one time and it was a slow morning. We were standing in chest high cover and when we finally did kill a duck I sent Billy to retrieve and my buddy said " S_ _ _ I forgot he was even here. He never made noise. His new owner takes him duck and goose hunting and this year he will be on Paul Sletten's truck. Some of them can give you the best of both worlds.

But if I was looking for a gun dog I would not buy a Cosmo pup. I believe Billy was somewhat of an exception.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Franco said:


> Dave, this is not a realistic or practical solution on a duck or goose hunt.
> 
> Me thinks your love for your dog blinds you;-)
> 
> Short of frying the dog to kingdomcome, how do you get a dog that whines constantly to stop?


Franco,
MY LOVE DIDN'T MAKE HER QUIET-BELIEVE ME!!!
She had a breaking problem when she was young. If she flinched, I refused to let her pick up the bird, and let the honor dog make the retrieve. She whined a bit when birds were thrown. I had the gunner throw the bird, and at times, I'd make her sit there for a solid minute. If she peeped a sound, I gave a harsh "no-quiet", and let another dog pick up the bird.
Come on over to Houston and I'll show you, or even better, have me over to LA-land for a duck hunt-LOL

How much noise do Tex and/or Cody make when flyers are thrown?


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Dave, I'll have give you a rain check for next season on that hunt. Season closes this weekend in the west zone and everyone wants to hunt! Ducks on Friday, geese on Sat and Sun. We have Lesser Canadas down in record numbers, Specs have been solid all season long and the duck season has been the best in years. Lets get in touch next November.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Franco said:


> Dave, I'll have give you a rain check for next season on that hunt. Season closes this weekend in the west zone and everyone wants to hunt! Ducks on Friday, geese on Sat and Sun. We have Lesser Canadas down in record numbers, Specs have been solid all season long and the duck season has been the best in years. Lets get in touch next November.


Heck, if your'e shootin that many birds the dog don't have time to whine!!


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## rboudet (Jun 29, 2004)

David Maddox said:


> Franco,
> MY LOVE DIDN'T MAKE HER QUIET-BELIEVE ME!!!
> She had a breaking problem when she was young. If she flinched, I refused to let her pick up the bird, and let the honor dog make the retrieve. She whined a bit when birds were thrown. I had the gunner throw the bird, and at times, I'd make her sit there for a solid minute. If she peeped a sound, I gave a harsh "no-quiet", and let another dog pick up the bird.
> Come on over to Houston and I'll show you, or even better, have me over to LA-land for a duck hunt-LOL
> ...


None, they will tap a paw but no noise


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

rboudet said:


> None, they will tap a paw but no noise


They take after their mama!!!
LOL.

FRANK, I'M IN!!!


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

I have two cosmo grandchildren. I have one affected and one clear. They are first cousins. Dam of one and Sire of other are Cosmo littermates. 

So... from my research of the situation from one cosmo litter he produced an affected and clear.


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## Marty Bullington (Dec 15, 2005)

bandcollector said:


> I have two cosmo grandchildren. I have one affected and one clear. They are first cousins. Dam of one and Sire of other are Cosmo littermates.
> 
> So... from my research of the situation from one cosmo litter he produced an affected and clear.


Affected or carrier?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Truly classic RTF, the OP asks a simple question about a potential genetic problem in a long dead stud, the question is answered in a few posts less than one page, and then a referendum ensues on the relative merits of the offspring of said stud dog which encompasses 40 more posts and 3 days.

Each time I open RTF and see yet another page I chuckle to myself as this is exactly what generated my observation 7 or 8 years ago about gobbledygook!


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

EdA said:


> Truly classic RTF, the OP asks a simple question about a potential genetic problem in a long dead stud, the question is answered in a few posts less than one page, and then a referendum ensues on the relative merits of the offspring of said stud dog which encompasses 40 more posts and 3 days.
> 
> Each time I open RTF and see yet another page I chuckle to myself as this is exactly what generated my observation 7 or 8 years ago about gobbledygook!


Every thread on the entire forum would be about 90% shorter if everyone stuck strictly to the op's point. Wouldn't be much of a forum at that point. Long live gobbledygook!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

huntinman said:


> Long live gobbledygook!


Unquestionably an opinion shared by many...


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## Karen Goff (Mar 10, 2005)

My Cosmo pup was Affected no symptoms. Born in 2007 before the test came out. Dam was tested after the test came out and she was a carrier. My dog passed away at 3 years old on Dec. 1, 2010 from Osteosarcoma. She was a great dog and is greatly missed. 
RIP Dream Come True "Star" 5/17/07 - 12/1/10
Karen Goff


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

EdA said:


> Unquestionably an opinion shared by many...


Indubitably


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