# From the breeders eyes



## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

To the breeders out there, I was wondering if there might be things that inquiring buyers say or do that aggravate you enough to where you might tell them to hit the road?!?!?!

I've personally raised 3 litters and been involved in 3 others that a buddy raised, and never have I experienced more irritating things than I have in dealing with my present litter.


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## Bally's Gun Dogs (Jul 28, 2010)

Biggest frustration is the text message saying "do you have puppies"...obviously they read your ad or they wouldn't have had your phone number, but no introduction or anything...unfortunately in the high tech non talking world, that is what we are getting more of. The ability to hold a conversation is diminishing.


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## cocdawg (Mar 9, 2013)

There was a similar thread on RTF a while back that was about this very topic. That thread is very entertaining reading if you can find it.


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## Ethompson63 (Sep 13, 2013)

I hate the ones that just say "how much for a pup?" When you get those you know they'll never get one.


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

We had one once that asked the price and then said, "I just wanted one, not the whole litter."


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## Barry Ireland (Feb 18, 2005)

On the opposite side we had recently lost a very nice young dog. In trying to find a new pup I would call and talk to the breeder about the litter and then tell them if I want to buy I will get back in touch. We had 3 different breeders that wouldn't leave us alone wanting to know if we wanted their pup. This was a big turn off and I did not buy from them. These were not cheaper breedings and I wanted to buy a good pup and make a good decision, not have the breeders push us into it.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

1) simple email asking one question: How much are your puppies?
2), People who obviously looked at the website, saw the picture of the two puppies available, clearly stated male. They call and say theyve seen my pups on the website and wondered if I had any females?


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

Buyer with children that were absolute terrors. No way was I going to put one of my pups in that household!!


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

we want a companion for our Labradoodle.

we are looking for a new family member (couch potato)


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

I had one guy who went on and on about what he wanted in a Labrador. I ended up telling him it sounds like he would be happier with a basset hound.


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## fishin444 (Apr 23, 2012)

People that say they'll get back to you or I'll let you know for sure. I've learned to go about my business and move on to the next buyer. The other one is they offer about half the price for the pup as you're asking.


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

A few years back - ok - a lot of years back... I had a couple who came over to see a litter of pups. The woman kept making rude remarks including saying after looking at the picture of the sire that he looked like a great dane (FC AFC Crow Rivers Malarky's Cougar). After just a couple minutes I was ready to throw her out of the house...


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

I have had a lot of people tell me they will give me more money for a pup I already told them was sold. An ethical breeder does not do that...


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok, funny one... I had about a 12 year old boy who's parents said he could get a puppy and he wanted a good one. First he asked if I gave 4-H discounts... I gave him a big discount, then when he was asking me about training I mentioned starting them on pigeons. He asked if he gave me pigeons if I would discount the puppy further based on the number of pigeons he gave me. I told him I would. On the day he showed up to pick up the puppy he also showed up with 117 pigeons... Too funny!


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

fishin444 said:


> People that say they'll get back to you or I'll let you know for sure. I've learned to go about my business and move on to the next buyer.


I am polite to them but I never take them serious. Unless they say they are sending a deposit... I don't take them serious.


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## fishin444 (Apr 23, 2012)

I agree with that 100%. and will add the deposit would be in my hand. What did the pigeon discount come to?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Getting a generic form letter type email inquiry with no specifics...you know they sent the same thing to ten or twenty other breeders. I always reply, and the first thing they ask is "how much?" and then they go with the breeder with the $500 pups. 

Or the people who ask a million questions, visit the kennels and see all the dogs (which is good!! I don't mind answering them or showing people my dogs) and then when I send them a deposit agreement, I never hear back or receive a deposit, until the litter is born and and they call and want to know if I have a pup for them. It's very uncommon for me to have a puppy not spoken for within a few days of being born. And then these same folks not only want a puppy, they want first pick, when they sent no deposit and there are four other people ahead of them who did. Sorry....none available. "But you knew we wanted one!" Yes...but did you send in a deposit to reserve one?

And I agree 100% about the wild, out of control children.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

SPEED said:


> Ok, funny one... I had about a 12 year old boy who's parents said he could get a puppy and he wanted a good one. First he asked if I gave 4-H discounts... I gave him a big discount, then when he was asking me about training I mentioned starting them on pigeons. He asked if he gave me pigeons if I would discount the puppy further based on the number of pigeons he gave me. I told him I would. On the day he showed up to pick up the puppy he also showed up with 117 pigeons... Too funny!


That is HILARIOUS!!!


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

fishin444 said:


> I agree with that 100%. and will add the deposit would be in my hand. What did the pigeon discount come to?


234.00 I told him I would give him 2.00 a bird and that was the going rate at that time.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Oh my... considering I've had 3 litters (19 puppies) since December (and yes, I am done for the year!!!!), it is hard to know where to start. 

1) People who claim they chose you as a breeder because you are so on top of health, care and temperament selection, and know you will pick the most suitable pup for them... then tell you in the end that they really only wanted a black female or whatever after saying all along they were open on color and that a calmer temperament was most important. And then they go buy from someone w/ a totally different look and/or color and/or temperament.

2) People who ask if I take Visa or payments. Really, do they know how many thousands a breeder may have out of pocket at that 8 wk point that has been paid to the stud owner, FedEx, the vets, etc already? Then what happens to the payments if the puppy gets injured or sick?

3) People who claim to be long time owners who claim to know it all about raising a puppy and then return a very sociable pup after 5 days of unsuccessful solitary confinement in the basement because she was lonely (and not surprisingly, threw a hissy fit). 

4) People w/ very young kids, work all day, want a dog that their kids will grow up w/ but obviously have no time for training and just think that since they live next to a dog park, all will be fine.

5) Say they've been to my website, wonder if I have any litters (duh... if you went to my website you'd see...) and then ask how much. Go fish, you are too stupid to own a lab.

6) Need a puppy but not until November. Ummmm, go fish...

7) Need a companion for their lonely pet pup stuck in the backyard all day.

Believe it or not, the RESCUE emails I get thru the club I volunteer for are FAR WORSE. People who want a fully trained lab, aged 2-4, specific color/sex, must be good w/ kids and cats and cost no more than $100...... one today for a choc female, ready 11/23, must be intact for religious reasons.... hehehehe. 

Some days it just feels so good when I stop banging my head against the brick wall.


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## hotel4dogs (Aug 2, 2010)

People who are very obviously reading questions off of a list of about 1000 questions that they printed off the internet, probably from a blog entitled "what to ask a breeder before buying a puppy" or some such thing. About 995 of the questions aren't relevant.


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## kelrobin (Aug 12, 2013)

Asking for the color and gender I don't have after they say they visited my website. If they can't read my website where it states quite clearly what I have available, then they won't follow directions on raising the puppy.......delete.


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

Sharon Potter said:


> Getting a generic form letter type email inquiry with no specifics...you know they sent the same thing to ten or twenty other breeders. I always reply, and the first thing they ask is "how much?" and then they go with the breeder with the $500 pups.
> 
> Or the people who ask a million questions, visit the kennels and see all the dogs (which is good!! I don't mind answering them or showing people my dogs) and then when I send them a deposit agreement, I never hear back or receive a deposit, until the litter is born and and they call and want to know if I have a pup for them. It's very uncommon for me to have a puppy not spoken for within a few days of being born. And then these same folks not only want a puppy, they want first pick, when they sent no deposit and there are four other people ahead of them who did. Sorry....none available. "But you knew we wanted one!" Yes...but did you send in a deposit to reserve one?
> 
> And I agree 100% about the wild, out of control children.


I have a similar one - a guy wanted a pup and said he was sending the deposit when the pups were born. He calls me the night before they were to leave and wanted to know what time to pick up the pup. He apologized for not getting the deposit in sooner and that things just happened. He said that had been about a week ago that he had told me he would send a deposit. I looked at my calendar and told him I was very sorry but all the pups had been sold and that it had been 7 weeks ago that he had said he would send a deposit. I guess he lost track of time.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I actually gave back a deposit on pickup day and sent a father and son home with no puppy, after they drove four hours to get it. Showed them the pups, and the father and I went into the next room to do the paperwork. a minute later, I hear a puppy screaming....race through the door and see the son kicking it in a corner. I yanked that kid out of the pen by his hood, hustled them both back into the other room and asked just what he thought he was doing. It seems the puppy grabbed and tore the ski tag on his jacket, which is why he felt the need to kick it. The father backed him up, saying that any dog that lives with them will learn its place. I am proud to say I restrained myself long enough to hand them their deposit back and escort them out the front door. The father said "but we drove all this way and we want our puppy" and I told them they would never, ever get a dog from me.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

I feel like I am probably one of the people you loathe. In the last month, I have probably visited more than 1,000 websites looking for the perfect puppy. Since I am a breeder myself, I do have a lengthy list of questions and most times I don't remember to ask them all on the first go round. I looked at so many websites prices and availability of color and sex became a blur. Not to mention the fact that I would have to check history of hip and elbow health with the OFA site for each litter. I finally found what I was looking for even though it is not exactly what I set out wanting in the first place. So, yes.... I get that I am a royal pain. I am just glad I found someone willing to put up with me.


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

My all time favorite is the people(yes I have had more than one) that say they want a female to breed to their male Ol Rover so he will be happy.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Sherri, I don't mind questions or several phone calls at all. I appreciate someone making that effort. To me it shows that a buyer has done their homework.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

I've only had one litter. The deposits for seven pups were in my hands several weeks before the breeding. I had to turn a potential buyer from Montana down (mostly because of what he wanted first pick for). He wanted first pick or nothing and never called back. The first pick was soon taken by a very prominent buyer/trainer out west and a few days after announcing the breeding....all the picks were in. I was thrilled. I hadn't planned for the response being that good and I learned taking seven deposits is too many (before whelping). 

The last pick buyer was very, very angry when I had to refund his deposit (one pup short). He didn't think being last pick was "fair".....go figure. That wasn't much of a big deal for me. Evidently, it was for him. 

Everything went well after that....or so I thought. Then the first pick buyer calls to arrange shipping to Montana. His kennel wasn't anywhere near that. I asked, "What's up?" His response was, "I bought the pup in a partnership with.......... *the guy from Montana*. He's going to take care of him for the first six months and then I'll take over the training and hunt test competition." It was a "deer in headlights" moment for me and that's not what happened. 

I'm fairly certain he "sold" his share for a small profit (or simply did it as a favor) and the pup never left Montana. It wasn't all that bad for the pup. His life has been filled with many days of hunting.......but that first pick "deal" still "bugs" me to this day.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Dealing with the public can be a challenge at times. Some of the stories above are a riot.
Fortunately they are the minority, I hope.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Yep...the first pick thing. ::::sigh:::: To the average person off the street, the term "first pick" means "best puppy" and everything after that is of lesser quality. Too bad nobody told that to dogs like NFC Lottie.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

I don't let the buyers pick. They can request sex, color. If I have that, then they get the pup I match with them. If they want "pick," then I tell them that's not how I do it.

The deposit reserves a pup. If there aren't enough pups, or not enough of the color/sex you want, I refund the deposit. Or, if I have pups of a different color/sex available, you can make that choice.

Had a gal call me. Said she just lost her "perfect" dog and she wanted another one just like him. He was 27 inches at the shoulder, black and "100% American field Lab." When I told her 27 inches was 3 inches out of the standard and none of my dogs were that big, she got incensed. But instead of hanging up, she continued to tell me my pregnant bitch looked "just like" her male. I told her the bitch was 22.5 at the shoulder and ¾ show, ¼ field. She had to have all American field. I told her I didn't have what she wanted. If she could read a pedigree, she would see that all of my dogs are a combination of field and show. Then she wanted to know if I took credit cards. No. Well she wouldn't do business with someone who wouldn't take credit cards. Told her we weren't doing business (in SO MANY ways).

She called back two more times--both times I told her "I do not have a puppy for you." I would guess she called a lot of breeders and they all turned her down when she revealed how nuts she is!

Meredith


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## Bill Watson (Jul 13, 2005)

Couple arrives with two ACTIVE, out of control kids and then get into an argument with each other and the kids about which pup they want. Gets heated and Cleo and I each pick up a pup and start to put them up and they want to know why we are doing that. Cleo states she is sorry, but we try not to sell pups to a disfuntual (sp) family! They left without a pup.
Father comes with two kids who pay no attention to what Pop says to them, is disrespectful and is rough with pups! If he can't control the kids then he probably won't raise the pup any better, best they get a pup from someone else, NEXT! Bill


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

Sharon Potter said:


> Yep...the first pick thing. ::::sigh:::: To the average person off the street, the term "first pick" means "best puppy" and everything after that is of lesser quality. Too bad nobody told that to dogs like NFC Lottie.


When I am looking for a pup I don't care what pick it is... You can't tell by a puppy. In one litter of 10 I had I had a black male left that nobody wanted. He ended up being a US national Open Finalist and won the Canadian National Am. To tell you the truth - I didn't think he was a trial prospect at first and would just be a nice gundog. I sent a deposit for a chocolate male to a kennel out East sight unseen. I was looking for a conformation bred dog with a lot of master hunters behind it. The lady had nice dogs. They did not have enough puppies for me. I told her to keep the deposit and I would take one from the next litter. I had no intentions of showing the dog but did end up getting his championship and multiple working titles. Again... pick does not matter when you get a pup from a good litter.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

A number of years ago had a guy from another state send a deposit. A couple of weeks later he calls up and says he decided to go with a different litter, understands that the deposit is non-refundable, etc. We're good to go. Calls back a few weeks later and tells my wife (I as out to sea at the time) that he's changed his mind again and wants a pup. Wife tells him that unfortunately his pup has been sold to someone else. He gets irate and demands his deposit back.
When I get home, I call him up and we discuss. He is rude, questions my integrity, etc. Rather than have all that, I refund his non-refundable deposit and wish him good luck finding a pup.
I forget about the issue entirely.
Several weeks ago a friend of mine is at a hunt test in another state and runs into this guy. When my name comes up, this jackwagon starts talking about how I screwed him on a puppy deal, etc. etc. No good deed goes unpunished.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Now when someone inquires and wants to get on the list, I have a puppy reservation agreement that spells out all the conditions. They need to read and sign it and send with their deposit. Far fewer surprises that way. And I do the picking too, trying to match personalities with the needs of the people. This has kept the headaches to a minimum, at least so far.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

SPEED said:


> When I am looking for a pup I don't care what pick it is... You can't tell by a puppy.
> 
> Again... pick does not matter when you get a pup from a good litter.


Exactly! But try to convince someone of that when they just *know* first pick will be the best one.


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

When I was looking for my pup I found a litter I really liked. I wanted a female pup. Turned out the waiting list was full. Well when the pups were welped the breeder contacted me and there was an extra male so I said put me down! 

Within a few days buyers backed out and changed their mind on sex so I ended up with second to last female pick. I was getting my pup shipped to me regardless so I told the breeder just send me whoever is left! 

I honestly couldn't be happier with the little gal I got!


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## Maxs Mom (Sep 17, 2009)

As a buyer I read "first pick" as consideration. We got a pup and we were "first pick". I called the breeder asking what that meant. They said they would pick out our pup first, the one they thought was most suitable for our needs and desires, then place the rest. We picked our pup up a week plus after they could go to their homes. It was Christmastime, and pups were in MN we were in MI. There were two left, ours and a little boy. Our pup was a perfect match to our expectations. 

Thank you to those breeders who don't mind us buyers with lots of questions. You get to know us too. I liked the breeder pick thing too. You breeders know those pups better than we will looking at them.


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## FGD Mike Smith (Jan 5, 2012)

I had a guy tell me he heard that purebreds can't have any white on them and asked me if I could prove I had a purebred lab. Imagine how well that went over!


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

I have found that "pet" people who state that they "occasionally" hunt (as in maybe 1-2 times per year if the weather is nice out, and that just means that they "go" out. Not that they actually seen, shot at, or hit something.) are the worst. They have a million and one expectations- which a good general idea is wanted and appreciated- and seem to nit pick every detail and photo. And speaking of photos, what about the hundreds of requests for additional photos, individual photos, special photo requests like "their puppy with the parents" or yes, even their puppy with a certain background or costume due to a holiday! Anytime a guy calls and asks about a litter, no matter how interested, if he states: "I have to talk to the wife and I will get back to you." This means that he will NOT be calling back. He wants the pup, wife doesn't even know that he is looking.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Maxs Mom said:


> As a buyer I read "first pick" as consideration. We got a pup and we were "first pick". I called the breeder asking what that meant. They said they would pick out our pup first, the one they thought was most suitable for our needs and desires, then place the rest. We picked our pup up a week plus after they could go to their homes. It was Christmastime, and pups were in MN we were in MI. There were two left, ours and a little boy. Our pup was a perfect match to our expectations.
> 
> Thank you to those breeders who don't mind us buyers with lots of questions. You get to know us too. I liked the breeder pick thing too. You breeders know those pups better than we will looking at them.


Ive had people fret over not having "pick" puppy. My friend had a couple that seamed very interested back out because they couldn't have pick pup-sheesh!!!
First pick is just that, a pick. Its more like "elimination pick" to me. Eliminate the ones you don't like. 
The last 2 pups sold in my 2nd Cosmo breeding ended up FC-Butch's Dream Code of TCR & FTCH-Dream Dancin. People thought that Cody was too laid back and D.D. was just not "the one" for the people picking. 
As far as me picking a pup for myself, Hell, it takes me an hour to pick out a pair of shoes. Even if I think going in that I know what I want-LOL
Even as a breeder, I usually just look for consistencies in pups. If I pick for a buyer, i pick what I like and hope for the best. I really don't think that I have ever had one that I wouldn't keep. 
With my present litter, I had a pup that was very laid back and kindof homely looking until 5 or 6 weeks. Now he's beautiful AND a BEAST in the water!!! So, you never know.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

I love the have to talk to the wife. Better is when the guy picks up a puppy, and brings it back 2-3 days later, cuz he never bothered to tell the wife he was getting one. Yes there are those type of Wives out there, still I'd probably return her before I'd take back a puppy


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Last time I bought a puppy, I got to the breeder's house and he had the 3 females in an x-pen. I walked over, and pointed and said I'll take that one. Took me all of maybe three seconds.


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## swampcollielover (Nov 30, 2012)

SPEED said:


> Ok, funny one... I had about a 12 year old boy who's parents said he could get a puppy and he wanted a good one. First he asked if I gave 4-H discounts... I gave him a big discount, then when he was asking me about training I mentioned starting them on pigeons. He asked if he gave me pigeons if I would discount the puppy further based on the number of pigeons he gave me. I told him I would. On the day he showed up to pick up the puppy he also showed up with 117 pigeons... Too funny!


LOL...thanks for that one....I have a son that at 12 would have done exactly the same thing.....!


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## swampcollielover (Nov 30, 2012)

labman63 said:


> My all time favorite is the people(yes I have had more than one) that say they want a female to breed to their male Ol Rover so he will be happy.


I tell my wife a similar story....if you know what I mean.....and yes I am a happy guy!


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## moonstonelabs (Mar 17, 2006)

My first litter I had a call from a man whose only words to me were "I want a dog that can do a 400 yard swim on a memory bird in the 4th series. Do you have one?"

To which I said " if I did he/she wouldn't be for sale"

Bill


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

I just had a message in another forum on a serious side to the issue.

The breeder had several phone calls from a man who insisted that he was going to pay for a puppy using PayPal. The breeder finally got him to stop calling. I hadn't thought of this ... PayPal is absolutely a buyers tool. Any reason for dissatisfaction, actual or contrived, and the money is refunded by PayPal and they look to you for their money ... whether you get your "product" back or not. I had never thought of this but will be wary in the future.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Eric Johnson said:


> I just had a message in another forum on a serious side to the issue.
> 
> The breeder had several phone calls from a man who insisted that he was going to pay for a puppy using PayPal. The breeder finally got him to stop calling. I hadn't thought of this ... PayPal is absolutely a buyers tool. Any reason for dissatisfaction, actual or contrived, and the money is refunded by PayPal and they look to you for their money ... whether you get your "product" back or not. I had never thought of this but will be wary in the future.


Wow, very interesting... good thing I have a basic fear of PayPal, whether it's a legit fear or not!


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## Twin Willows Labs (Feb 4, 2014)

moonstonelabs said:


> My first litter I had a call from a man whose only words to me were "I want a dog that can do a 400 yard swim on a memory bird in the 4th series. Do you have one?"
> 
> To which I said " if I did he/she wouldn't be for sale"
> 
> Bill


Too funny. Was the guy looking to buy a NAFC or a puppy?


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

Sharon Potter said:


> I actually gave back a deposit on pickup day and sent a father and son home with no puppy, after they drove four hours to get it. Showed them the pups, and the father and I went into the next room to do the paperwork. a minute later, I hear a puppy screaming....race through the door and see the son kicking it in a corner. I yanked that kid out of the pen by his hood, hustled them both back into the other room and asked just what he thought he was doing. It seems the puppy grabbed and tore the ski tag on his jacket, which is why he felt the need to kick it. The father backed him up, saying that any dog that lives with them will learn its place. I am proud to say I restrained myself long enough to hand them their deposit back and escort them out the front door. The father said "but we drove all this way and we want our puppy" and I told them they would never, ever get a dog from me.


Sharon,

Thanks for sharing this story and showing self-control. I'm not sure I would have been able to refrain from showing the boy how it felt to be the one in the corner getting kicked!

I also got to wondering what kind of story dad concocted on the 4 hour drive home without a puppy. I'm sure you played the feature role as "The Crazy Dog Lady"!

Swack


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

windycanyon said:


> Wow, very interesting... good thing I have a basic fear of PayPal, whether it's a legit fear or not!


Just a note from the buyers side, when I bought Ace the breeder was in MN. I paid the deposit, balance and shipping costs all via paypal, at the breeders suggestion. It's a very quick, easy transaction and worked out great for both of us. I think if you've gotten to know the buyer through the process and feel good about them pay pal is a viable option.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Swack said:


> Sharon,
> 
> Thanks for sharing this story and showing self-control. I'm not sure I would have been able to refrain from showing the boy how it felt to be the one in the corner getting kicked!
> 
> ...


 I've been called worse. 

Actually, a couple of years ago I had a nice young couple visit my kennel, looking for a trainer for their new GSP puppy. They had visited several other trainers, and after we talked a bit and took the puppy for a walk in the field, they went to their car and wrote me a check to reserve a spot when the pup was old enough. Curious as to why they had made such a quick decision, I asked them why. They said because of all the trainers they'd visited, I was the only one that seemed normal! I cracked up laughing...couldn't wait to call my parents and tell them that somebody finally called me normal!


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## TJ Shanahan (Dec 14, 2007)

I've often wondered, if you are selling puppies and advertised all the detail about clearances, pedigree, titles, etc. then why not list the price? People get frustrated when they get the question regarding price. Why not list it up front? I'd love to see it required in classified the same way clearances are required..


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

For you newbies when you buy a dog/pup from various states be aware that aside from breeder's guarantees there are sometimes civil laws which protect you as well, So , one I was familiar with because at the time I got my local state Rep to join in , is in the state of Minnesota. Check out Minnesota state laws re: this is a 1 year protection on congenital pre-existing conditions to the cost of the dog. Also a breeder is only as good as who they are , and a guarantee can mean something or nothing. That is why civil state law , when coupled w/federal interstate laws can sometimes assist you when deals go bad. I have bought six dogs out-of-state from reputable breeders who either know me or my dog friends. Cheapest part of a dog is the purchase price. Good breeders earn every cent they get.


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## brian breuer (Jul 12, 2003)

TJ Shanahan said:


> I've often wondered, if you are selling puppies and advertised all the detail about clearances, pedigree, titles, etc. then why not list the price? People get frustrated when they get the question regarding price. Why not list it up front? I'd love to see it required in classified the same way clearances are required..


I always hate asking. But it is an issue. I just put a deposit on a $1500 puppy. I couldn't t bring myself to pay $2000 on an earlier litter. I won't waste your time if it is out of my range.


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

As to price, when I get an inquiry, I immediately send out an intro email with details on us, the dogs and the litter and how we raise them. My last line lists the price, that is the same regardless of sex or color and states that if they are still interested, to get back in touch with me. This last paragraph does a good job of the initial filtering. 

4 years ago I had a couple, their son and the grandparents show up to look at pups. The only male in the litter I was not committing to sell because I thought I might keep him. The grandfather offered to pay double for the boy and was very persistent. That was the end of that....

Sue Puff


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## Kasomor (Nov 29, 2008)

"Looking for a mature female. For a family. Any leads??"

How do I answer that ... I mean really?? This was the COMPLETE email!!


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Kasomor said:


> "Looking for a mature female. For a family. Any leads??"
> 
> How do I answer that ... I mean really?? This was the COMPLETE email!!


Send them to your breed club as some breeder directories advertise "retired" or otherwise adult dogs that aren't breed worthy.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

TJ Shanahan said:


> I've often wondered, if you are selling puppies and advertised all the detail about clearances, pedigree, titles, etc. then why not list the price? People get frustrated when they get the question regarding price. Why not list it up front? I'd love to see it required in classified the same way clearances are required..


Why WOULD a hobby breeder WANT to list price? It locks you out of eductating those who think they can buy a well bred pup at newspaper prices (not happening). And maybe it limits you to those who have more money than brains (a fair number of those out there). Further, w/ animal rights folks out there, they may actually think at $1000 + per puppy, the breeder is getting filthy rich (not likely happening unless they are breeding more than a "couple" litters per year and not competing much) and turn them into the authorities. This isnt' a "business" to most of us.


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## dogluvah (Apr 24, 2012)

That 4H kid with the pigeons is an enterprising young man! Most kids nowadays don't have that much spunk  What a great little businessman.


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## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

windycanyon said:


> Why WOULD a hobby breeder WANT to list price? It locks you out of eductating those who think they can buy a well bred pup at newspaper prices (not happening). And maybe it limits you to those who have more money than brains (a fair number of those out there). Further, w/ animal rights folks out there, they may actually think at $1000 + per puppy, the breeder is getting filthy rich (not likely happening unless they are breeding more than a "couple" litters per year and not competing much) and turn them into the authorities. This isnt' a "business" to most of us.



As as a hobby buyer ,( I hopefully only need a pup every 10-15 years), price is my last question.
And I'll admit, while recently looking for a pup, my first question was about available BLM pups .
While maybe a put off ,it gets the conversation started.

Hopefully in 15 years I'll have a better first question.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

480/277 said:


> As as a hobby buyer ,( I hopefully only need a pup every 10-15 years), price is my last question.
> And I'll admit, while recently looking for a pup, my first question was about available BLM pups .
> While maybe a put off ,it gets the conversation started.
> 
> Hopefully in 15 years I'll have a better first question.


My preferred first question revolves around finding the right puppy for your home/purpose. The right amount of energy (not too much nor too little), the right amount of "smarts", etc. 

I understand the color preference, but if everything else is right.....

What else has gone into the rearing of that pup (vet well checks, eye checks, microchips, socialization, gun shot / live pigeon intro, etc?). IMO, there are breeders, and then there are BREEDERS. What is IN that price or "color" you ask about?


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## dogluvah (Apr 24, 2012)

Hearing these stories, I guess I didn't realize how lucky I was selling our first litter. We had a small litter, only 3 to sell. The new owners are all great experienced dog owners each family was the perfect match for the pup they got. My big problem was we had agreed my hubby would get to pick our "keeper" for his pup to train since the momma dog was "mine". We disagreed on the "best" puppy and I had to sell my favorite


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## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

windycanyon said:


> My preferred first question revolves around finding the right puppy for your home/purpose. The right amount of energy (not too much nor too little), the right amount of "smarts", etc.
> 
> I understand the color preference, but if everything else is right.....
> 
> What else has gone into the rearing of that pup (vet well checks, eye checks, microchips, socialization, gun shot / live pigeon intro, etc?). IMO, there are breeders, and then there are BREEDERS. What is IN that price or "color" you ask about?


I figured with all the info on their web sites , dog forums and owners of their dogs I had the kennels I wanted. 

I had about 6 on my list . And I think I would have gotten a good pup from any of them.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

The "right home", "smarts", "energy"? Who really knows at 7 weeks?
After keeping 3 pups past the age of 8 weeks, boy did I realize how much can be hidden in each and every pup. 

For example: Looks/confirmation. I had a pup that I thought was just ok looking at 6 weeks. By 8 weeks I thought that he was really developing nicely. By 10 weeks, I thought that he was very sound and possibly the best looking of all males.

Smarts. Each and every pup started showing more signs of intelligence daily. As puppies start to leave. whether it be 1 per day, or 2 per day. Pups will start to show their intelligence simply due to the fact that you as the breeder have less pups and more time for each remaining pup (we try to separate and socialize individually and groups of 2 or 3 starting at 3 wks).
Once the numbers go down, things like "sit" in 2 sessions (we try to teach "here" from early walking) or 3 pups responding to "wanna go outside" by flying across the house and waiting at the door. Now it's 2 pups rushing to the door, "sitting" and waiting to be let out. 

Energy: Pups that I would have picked 7 or 8 out of a litter of 8 have blown me away with their smarts and crazy amount of drive after several of the siblings have gone on to their new homes. One of my guys used to lie in the corner and watch his siblings play. He'd join in occasionally. At 8 weeks when 5 pups were gone. He became a beast!!! BTW:had a water entry like a grown dog at 9 weeks. Who'd of thunk it-right?

POINT? Just goes to show you the importance of picking a breeding that you like. Do your homework in learning as many bits and pieces about the looks, smarts, and energy of the sire/dam. Reference the people raising the litter (I know that I will research you when you inquire about one of my pups!!!). Know exactly why you want to buy a certain pup from that certain litter/breeder.

Picking the "right" pup is a crap shoot. Picking the "right" breeding/or breeder increases your shot at purchasing a potential success!!!


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

windycanyon said:


> Why WOULD a hobby breeder WANT to list price? It locks you out of eductating those who think they can buy a well bred pup at newspaper prices (not happening). And maybe it limits you to those who have more money than brains (a fair number of those out there). Further, w/ animal rights folks out there, they may actually think at $1000 + per puppy, the breeder is getting filthy rich (not likely happening unless they are breeding more than a "couple" litters per year and not competing much) and turn them into the authorities. This isnt' a "business" to most of us.


Don't want to side-track the thread, but having bred a few litters and also having bought a few pups and helped others find pups, I find it off-putting to see an ad for pups without a price. It strikes me as a bit, "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". To me, the more info is out there, the better chance people can "self-screen". If I'm helping someone find a pup and I know what they are looking for and what their budget is, knowing the price on the pups helps me narrow down my search quicker. If I look at pedigree, health clearances and titles on a breeding, I have a number in my mind of what that litter is worth. If the seller has a much higher number in his head, why bother going through the effort of the conversation? A price on the website or advertisement can tell me whether or not to proceed.
As far as anti-breeder whacko AR types, nothing we do is going to prevent them from being idiots.
One man's opinion.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Nice job Matt.



Matt McKenzie said:


> Don't want to side-track the thread, but having bred a few litters and also having bought a few pups and helped others find pups, I find it off-putting to see an ad for pups without a price. It strikes me as a bit, "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". To me, the more info is out there, the better chance people can "self-screen". If I'm helping someone find a pup and I know what they are looking for and what their budget is, knowing the price on the pups helps me narrow down my search quicker. If I look at pedigree, health clearances and titles on a breeding, I have a number in my mind of what that litter is worth. If the seller has a much higher number in his head, why bother going through the effort of the conversation? A price on the website or advertisement can tell me whether or not to proceed.
> As far as anti-breeder whacko AR types, nothing we do is going to prevent them from being idiots.
> One man's opinion.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

and on this sunday morning, I think of another irritation. Since I just got the phone call of a puppy owner,who despite all the right questions, seemed to be the perfect puppy person- needs to return the puppy. Apparantly having a normal active lab puppy was more than she bargained for. Of course I am here for the puppy, but makes me scratch my head, and wonder how could I have seen this coming and prevented it.?
UGH- people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

Two years ago I had my first litter. Pups were at my friend's house who co-owns with me (I got the dog from her). We had a family of 5 come out and fall in love with the darker female. That was the one they wanted. We didn't know who they were going to get as someone had first pick and was torn between male and female. They came out for 3 weeks straight to see "their" pup. The kids proceeded to run wild. They let a dog out of the house, went running thru the house, sprayed my friend with the hose, and were just generally wild. They decided on their own that they weren't going to be able to get the pup they wanted so they backed out. After all 3 weeks of hell, they back out. Turns out, they could of had that puppy if they would have been patient. Now they are on the "No sell" list! With my 2nd litter on the ground and all pups already spoken for at 2 weeks old I hope to not repeat that fiasco!


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

1st retriever said:


> . The kids proceeded to run wild. They let a dog out of the house, went running thru the house, sprayed my friend with the hose, and were just generally wild. They decided on their own that they weren't going to be able to get the pup they wanted so they backed out. After all 3 weeks of hell, they back out. Turns out, they could of had that puppy if they would have been patient. Now they are on the "No sell" list! With my 2nd litter on the ground and all pups already spoken for at 2 weeks old I hope to not repeat that fiasco!


The kids' behavior alone would have cancelled the sale with me. I'd have refunded the deposit then and there and politely asked them to leave, and explained that the behavior of the kids was not at all in the best interest of one of my puppies.


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

I would like a female to add to my "collection" of girls for later breeding program. WTF! No!


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## weathered (Mar 17, 2011)

I had a couple place a deposit for a pup. Then they wanted to come see the pups at two weeks old. I declined that request for several reasons, not much to tell about pups at two weeks and they had not been vaccinated. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I don't really trust that the average person understands and respects the contagious diseases that can kill a whole litter of pups. I offered to video the pups and send that and would even do it once a week, on top of the weekly photos I took. In a week or so, they asked for their deposit back (which was non-refundable) because they didn't have time for a puppy. I told them I felt they really wanted a refund because I did not allow a visit, which they denied. But I refunded the money, didn't think I wanted the lifelong relationship with them as puppy buyers- don't think we were a great march nor that they understood puppy care and health. I already have one very needy past puppy buyer.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

David Maddox said:


> The "right home", "smarts", "energy"? Who really knows at 7 weeks?
> After keeping 3 pups past the age of 8 weeks, boy did I realize how much can be hidden in each and every pup.
> 
> For example: Looks/confirmation. I had a pup that I thought was just ok looking at 6 weeks. By 8 weeks I thought that he was really developing nicely. By 10 weeks, I thought that he was very sound and possibly the best looking of all males.
> ...


I agree w/ your very last point and quite a lot of the in between too. I think perhaps because I generally don't let my pups go until 8 wks, I'm at an advantage of having a better feel for the pups structurally and confidence wise at that point vs at 7 wks. I also try to make an effort to work individually w/ a pup in a room/area that they aren't familiar with that last couple weeks, to evaluate how they act away from the sibs. So yes, you are right, the one week can make a night and day difference right there.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

I actually decided to keep all of the pups for at least 8 weeks. Two left at 10 weeks. We too had the pups experience every room in the house individually as well as groups of 2 or 3. Routinely they ran around the house circling the table and thru the legs of chairs chasing one another. The cool thing was that they experienced a plethora of noises like the vacuum, blow dryer, skill saw, hammering, etc. 

We've had great feedback from all new homes.


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

If they don't know what I got....and want it....I just say thanks for your interest and move on. I had a bunch on the waiting list last time. They will be who I contact first this time.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Lpgar said:


> I had a bunch on the waiting list last time. They will be who I contact first this time.


what about those on the list for a female the first time who took a wonderful male instead? can those folks get contacted the next time too?????;-)


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

I've only had one litter. I received a call from a guy in TX and he said, "I will send a buddy over to check out your black male and if he's good enough I will buy him." I explained I would not sell the pup without references on the buyer. He claimed he was a "good guy". Turned out he'd been sanctioned by the AKC for dog cruelty at an event, and he hit one of the judges with his cane and the judge had to get stitches. I called him back and told him I'd found his sanction record and he shouldn't bother to send his friend to look at my pup. I also called the friend (who was known to me and a good guy) and told him what was going on.


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

Most definately!! Will call the clients from the first litter first no matter what.


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## Kyle Garris (Oct 27, 2005)

Roseberry-

No. Don't be greedy. Give somebody else a chance that has been waiting for a year.


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