# Fixing a gun shy dog



## [email protected]@##? (Jan 19, 2005)

Since I am one of the few guys at my sportsman's gun club with a steady, good marking and handling retriever (people think that whistle stuff is "cool" and relatively speaking my dogs behavior is good), I have been asked to help another member with his 2 year old German Shorthair who is gun shy. I spoke to the guy tonight, very nice guy and says he tried introducing the gun with a 22 blank pistol and that his dog has decent OB and is very birdy, "just" gun shy. Something went wrong somewhere, he's not sure why/how, and now the dog bolts when it hears gunfire. This is his 4th GSP and he never has this issue before. He is a pretty responsible guy and I believe him when he tells me he tried to gradually intro the gunfire and didn't just blast a gun over his head

Any suggestions or on-line material on the issue from anybody? I always associated retrieves and other fun things with gun fire and introduced it gradually. Luckily, I've never had the issue or had to fix it. I am going to meet the guy over the weekend to meet him and his dog at the sportsman's club. We can shoot guns, throw bumpers and use birds there. The property is big enough to get far enough away to hear only faint shots if need be. I am thinking distant shots associated with birds/retrieves/treats whatever it takes (without coddling the dog) and build up gradually???

Thanks!


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Sounds like you are on the right track, I've never had to deal with it. But, I would think that's a good plan. Everything I've ever read on the subject suggests just what you're planning.

I have read about taking a dog to a shooting range, parking in the distance, reassuring the dog, and then gradually moving closer. Most shooting ranges you could "work" all day.

I think he would have done the same things though....I think that comes under an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Good luck.

John Lash


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I've worked with a bunch of gunshy dogs over the years, with good success. Especially with a GSP or pointing breed, making them absolutely bird crazy is key. Just liking birds isn't enough...they need to get into a ton of birds, with no corrections no matter what they do around the birds, including catching and eating one. Any other issues created can be fixed later on....the gunshy stuff takes priority. 

Don't take a gunshy dog to the gun range. The goal has to be creating a positive association, and that means live birds and lots of 'em. Take a bag full of pigeons to the field and toss out one at a time and let the dog chase. I like to hold the bird by both wings and skip it low across the field to tempt the dog to chase. When the dog is really revved up about birds, introduce gunfire at a great distance, starting with a blank pistol and gradually moving closer as long as the dog doesn't pay any attention to the sound. Any hesitation on the part of the dog means you need to move further away. Make sure the dog is chasing a bird at every shot. When you can shot the blank pistol close to the dog when a bird is released, you're on the road to recovery. Back up again, and introduce a shotgun. Use a small gauge and low brass loads, and do the same drill with birds as before.

This forms a positive association between guns and birds, and it gets stronger when the dog realizes your shooting makes the bird fallout of the sky (well, unless you shoot like I do :wink: )

Fixing gunshyness takes time....don't rush it, and watch the dog carefully for any sign that the gun is distracting it from the bird.


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## Kevin Eskam (Mar 2, 2007)

I would not shoot the gun around the dog at all!!!! You are just going to re-enforce the behavior. this might take a couple years to fix! If it was my dog I would plant or get the dog on alot of birds as many as you can but just let them go or fly away,You are basicly getting the dog so hung up on birds that when you think it is safe to shot (soft shot at first) they will not notice!! Also I have found that the dog has to put alot of trust in the owner and it should come together!! This alot of times happens when a dog has a bad experience and hears the gunshot and associates the two together!! Kevin


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## Jonesy (Jan 11, 2006)

Sharon, very good post. What I do for the dogs that come here, I will take a 8 x 8 in piece of cardboard and attach it to a leg of the bird. If ya can I would let the dog root it up, or you could throw it for it. I wouldnt shoot for a couple birds......its already got prob with the gun, at this point it can overlay to the bird very easily. Let the dog catch some on teh ground an retrieve them back to you with out the shot, get it jacked up on getting the bird, thenlets say 5-6 birds later....as soon as the dog goes down to grab the bird off the ground, Fire......at this instant, there isnt athing on the dogs mind but that bird........also when I start, or fix the gun, I do in a big open feild.....and I wont shoot on cloudy day. It will work out in time, biggest thing in this situation, or stage of training is patience. Thanks Jonesy
You are welcome to call or email, will help you out. 859-985-2918

Jonesy's Gun Dogs
I train, and or fix all breed bird dogs, and retrievers
Berea, Ky
[email protected]


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

I introduce gun fire pretty much the same way as Sharon and Jonesy and have never had a gunshy dog. I have started alot of pointing dogs for myself as well as a friend who is a pro bird dog trainer. I start out running the dogs in a big field and just let them run and hunt. I have several pigeons planted around the field. As they find them I let them do what ever they do. If they point I flush and let them chase. If they run them up thats fine too. After two or three chases I will shoot a blank pistol with the lightest crimps when the dog is on the chase and far away. Make sure you shoot at a time the dog is having fun chaseing not after the bird is gone and he is coming back. After a couple of days of this you can start shooting a little closer and so on until you can shoot when the bird comes up. Remember all dogs are different and watch the dog for any adverse reactions. Back up if you have to. This is not a one day fix.Take your time and let the dog have fun. One other advantage of doing this is your letting the dog learn to find birds and most of them will start pointing and holding until you get there after a few days. Good luck


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Toughest gunshy dog I've had to repair so far: A gorgeous English Setter, who came to me both gunshy and bird shy. If you showed him a bird, he'd urinate on himself while trying to crawl under something and hide. He was three years old when I got him in to work with, and had been hunting with good success up until the wreck. 

Wreck? Yep. He was pointing a woodcock in heavy cover, evidently right over the top of the bird, and as the owner moved in to flush, the bird went up, but not in sight of the owner until it cleared the brush. Owner shoots, bird drops, dog is bolting back to the truck, bleeding profusely from where the woodcock flushed, bill first, straight up his nose and into the sinus cavity. A freak accident for sure, but it scared the bejeebers out of the dog.

Presto...instant gunshy/birdshy dog. 

The owner tried to work him through it and called me as a last resort before retiring the dog as a family pet. After evaluating the dog and seeing just how terrified he was, I figured there was only one thing I could try. I told the owner I thought the dog was salvageable, but it would be tough on the dog for a bit. Owner said go for it.

So....I put the dog in one of my T.E. Scott kennels. And withheld dog food for a day, then put in a live quail. The dog sat in the back corner, scared to death of the bird. Three more days passed before survival instinct took over the fear, and the dog caught and ate the quail. For two weeks, this dog had a steady diet of pigeons and quail...no dog food, just birds... with gunfire reintroduced at the very end. Sixty days later, the owner came to pick him up, and the dog pointed, held beautifully, and retrieved birds to hand with no problems. 

Just as a caveat....had I thought at any time the dog was in danger, I'd have pulled the plug on the whole thing and sent it home to be a pet. He did drop a few pounds during the initial period, which we figured, but he came through it well after that.


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## 2Blackdogs! (Apr 6, 2006)

One useful item in general when introducing to live birds is to get some of the Winchester AA "Low Noise Low Recoil" loads. I can only find them in 12ga 8 shot- works great on planted birds. These shells sound almost like a dud when they go off. Just introduced my pup over birds at 16 weeks of age and he was un-phased. I also use them all the time when training on preserves and at events. Could be part of your solution down the road.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

I don't know how much this will help but I found this on Dogs Afield. http://www.dogsafield.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R181-001
Also, in thinking more about it. What would happen you recorded gunshots and played in in the house all the time. Just over and over and over, starting quietly and turning it up a little more as dog gets used to it.
Just a thought........

Abby


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## Georgia.Belle (Dec 5, 2006)

Sharon Potter said:


> Wreck? Yep. He was pointing a woodcock in heavy cover, evidently right over the top of the bird, and as the owner moved in to flush, the bird went up, but not in sight of the owner until it cleared the brush. Owner shoots, bird drops, dog is bolting back to the truck, bleeding profusely from where the woodcock flushed, bill first, straight up his nose and into the sinus cavity. A freak accident for sure, but it scared the bejeebers out of the dog.


While it is not polite to laugh at someone's misfortune, I have to tell you that this made me giggle a little bit. Funny how weird sh#t happens.


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## blind ambition (Oct 8, 2006)

Sharon Potter said:


> Toughest gunshy dog I've had to repair so far: A gorgeous English Setter, who came to me both gunshy and bird shy. If you showed him a bird, he'd urinate on himself while trying to crawl under something and hide.
> 
> After evaluating the dog and seeing just how terrified he was, I figured there was only one thing I could try. I told the owner I thought the dog was salvageable, but it would be tough on the dog for a bit. Owner said go for it.
> 
> ...



Ms. Potter, that was one of the best examples of creative dog training I've read anywhere. Lucky are the dogs who learn their skills while under your care. I look forward to learning more from you over the course of your posting on this board.


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## Lesa Cozens Dauphin (Sep 13, 2005)

> Ms. Potter, that was one of the best examples of creative dog training I've read anywhere. Lucky are the dogs who learn their skills while under your care. I look forward to learning more from you over the course of your posting on this board


She also writes super articles for Retriever Journal.

lesa c


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## threemuch (Mar 24, 2006)

My girl wasn't gunshy, but she did flinch quite a bit at a shot when I first got her, especially if the mark wasn't a bird (like using a retrieve-r-trainer.) So I ran her through that Masters Voice program. It's basically music and gunshots that you play when they are in a safe comfortable place. Each track, the gunshots get louder, the music gets softer, until at the last track, it's all gunfire. You build them up to each track, playing each one over and over for a few days until they seem comfortable. It seemed to help, she doesn't flinch anymore, but she is a little older, and I think she also figured out that the gun usually means birds and retrieves and fun.

If your friend wants to try it, I am done with my copy, shoot me a PM.


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## Shakeyhands (Sep 5, 2013)

threemuch said:


> So I ran her through that Masters Voice program. It's basically music and gunshots that you play when they are in a safe comfortable place. Each track, the gunshots get louder, the music gets softer, until at the last track, it's all gunfire. You build them up to each track, playing each one over and over for a few days until they seem comfortable. .


I'm trying to find a copy of this program for my gun shy GSP.... If anyone know where I might find one please let me know.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Reading all of this, I'm really glad to live where I live: one mile north of a gun club (they shoot 2x a week, in my direction), and ~2 miles as the crow flies from a major military training area (which covers a lot of desert miles but the bombs.... oh my! The Japanese forces are here right now). Plus if it's fall/winter, mine hear the shots from hunters too which echo up the canyon. One dove hunter did seem a bit wizzed yesterday when he set up directly across the canal from me and found he had at least 6 labs plastered on my fence wanting to "help" retrieve his birds.... bad choice for a hunting spot if he didn't want to excite a few residents... sorry buddy.


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## Brettttka (Feb 9, 2013)

Google it and can find it. Guy is based out of St Louis and is willing to talk with you and help. Also gun dog supply sells copies of it. With that being said have not tried the program but it has a 97% success rate. Battled with not a gun shy dog but a gun concerned dog and after a lot of poppers and making the gun a fixture of my arm in training we have came along way. Big thanks to the trainer for many many phone calls and texts throughout the process. Shot live rounds the other day and not even a flinch out of my man. Live flyers he goes crazy like there is nothing else around.


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## Mallard Mugger (Jul 29, 2009)

Dogtrainer4God said:


> I don't know how much this will help but I found this on Dogs Afield. http://www.dogsafield.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R181-001
> Also, in thinking more about it. What would happen you recorded gunshots and played in in the house all the time. Just over and over and over, starting quietly and turning it up a little more as dog gets used to it.
> Just a thought........
> 
> Abby


I want my dogs to associate gunfire with a retrieve - what they love doing best. I don't want my dogs to have a tolerance of the noise. Will the background noise work, perhaps, but I think it's not nearly as soundproof as to the method Sharon uses. We do something very similar but it all boils down to being bird crazy and associating a retrieve with the gunfire.


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## RiverRat1 (Jul 17, 2013)

They way I trained my pup was that at an early stage I would crush aluminum beer cans right by the dog. He got used to the loud noise of the crushing can easily and then I transitioned from there. Try it out with Ur best alcoholic beverage can and u will see good results as well.


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## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

Post 7 in this thread, and post 16 at this url http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...709-Gun-Shy-Help!/page2&highlight=gun+shyness are probably the best advise you will get depending on severity of the gun shyness in this dog.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I used the quail approach once and it worked like a charm. I don't remember it taking as long as with Sharon's dog but all dogs are different. Mine was lab.


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## Shakeyhands (Sep 5, 2013)

RiverRat1 said:


> They way I trained my pup was that at an early stage I would crush aluminum beer cans right by the dog. He got used to the loud noise of the crushing can easily and then I transitioned from there. Try it out with Ur best alcoholic beverage can and u will see good results as well.


I actually did something similar using bowls and banging them together while she ate, this progressed up to a .22 starter pistol and she was fine.... then I made the mistake of not keeping it up figuring loud noises didn't bother her. Big mistake.

Thanks for the advice on where to find the CD. Found the site.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Sharon Potter said:


> Toughest gunshy dog I've had to repair so far: A gorgeous English Setter, who came to me both gunshy and bird shy. If you showed him a bird, he'd urinate on himself while trying to crawl under something and hide. He was three years old when I got him in to work with, and had been hunting with good success up until the wreck.
> 
> Wreck? Yep. He was pointing a woodcock in heavy cover, evidently right over the top of the bird, and as the owner moved in to flush, the bird went up, but not in sight of the owner until it cleared the brush. Owner shoots, bird drops, dog is bolting back to the truck, bleeding profusely from where the woodcock flushed, bill first, straight up his nose and into the sinus cavity. A freak accident for sure, but it scared the bejeebers out of the dog.
> 
> ...


GREAT job Sharon. The unconventional sometimes gets very good results.


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