# New Gunners Up Remote Launcher



## Okiebirdboy

Heads up for anybody looking to purchase a new remote launcher. There is a new contender on the block. 

Gunners Up ( www.gunnersup.com ) has just introduced it's first of many products for the retriever training enthusiast, the Gunners Up Remote Launcher. The Gunners Up Remote Launcher pound for pound does evrything the Zinger Winger does but at a fraction of the cost. The Gunners Up launcher sales for $275.00 almost $225.00 less than the Zinger Winger. This means you can buy multiple launchers without having to rob a bank to get it done!

We've been training with them here in Tulsa and they work like a champ!  Check them out, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

OkieBirdBoy


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## Paul Rainbolt

I have been training with wingers for about 7 years now and i got to tell the gunners up winger is the best winger out there right now. Ive been using it for 2 months and have had no problems at all. I own a zinger winger and i wish i would have bought 2 gunners up wingers instead. Also those bumper throwers are ok but i need something that can throw ducks and phesants. Anyway as you can tell i highly recomend you check out this new winger.


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## captdan

*Gunners Up Launcher*

Is the Gunners Up compatible with TT PRo Release"

Dan


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## Jay Dufour

*Question*

Is it servo released or solenoid? Is it compatable with TT150 release? Got three Zinger wingers and the posts on the solenoids hang up some.


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## FOM

What electronics work with it??

FOM


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## Okiebirdboy

The Gunners Up Remote Launcher is compatible with both the old style TriTronics and the new Pro Series. I'm not sure on the DogTra Electronics, Ive never seen or used one of their units. 

It is solenoid driven, which is easily accesible if there is a problem. 

Okie Bird Boy


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## JS

I know Tri-Tronics recently introduced a new remote release system, but on their web site, they no longer sell the 150. Anyone know where I can get a TT150 reciever?
Thanks,
JS


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## Paul Rainbolt

JS, You might try the Collar Clinic. You may be able to get a used rebuilt one through them.


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## Dave Tackes

I called Gunners Up today, they are solenoid operated, and they will use Tritronics or Dogtra electronic package.


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## JBlack

My only concern is that I have not had good luck with the Training Group winger and the release of the Gunners Up looks very similiar. I am glad you all have had good experiences with this winger and for 275 I will get one. Thanks for the input!!


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## Paul Rainbolt

if youve trained with a zinger then you know that they can be a pain to load with the release located inde the unit. The guuners up winger is much safer and easier to load. Also this traing group type release is removable and much eaiser to get to the selonoid. I have not had any problems with the release on this unit.


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## JBlack

Thanks Slim! I expect mine to come in tomorrow and can not wait to train w/ it. I'll post my feedback also.


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## Dave Tackes

Anybody have any "issues" with mounting Dogtra e-tronics to the Gunners Up launchers? I'm a Dogtra user.


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## Okiebirdboy

*DogTra*

Dave,

I spoke to the folks at Gunners Up and they just finished making an aluminum adapter plate for the DogTra unit to mount to. The plate can be fastened with the plastic Nylatch Clips or with sheet metal screws. There is no extra for the plate.

Okie Bird Boy


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## Mud Diver

I would like to know if it can be used as a manual launcher since it don't stake down? Also, the pros and cons of the TT electronics versues the Dogtra. If you can buy a receiver later that can be programmed prior to shipment, this is probably the model to get (realistic duck quack). Also, how hard are they to set (effort to pull down). Just getting an idea if my kids could help out with it


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## Dave Tackes

Mud Diver

I'd call 'em. The owner called me back, and he is a avid dog man and trainer. He seemed real straight up.


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## Paul Rainbolt

Mud Diver, The launcher can be used manually.


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## Mud Diver




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## FOM

Anyone know how much shipping costs??

FOM


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## JBlack

Mine was $20


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## 2labs

*gunners up*

Received my winger on thursday
I have found the pulley system to subpar. The pully's are cheaply made and caused one side of each rubber strand to stretch twice the distance as the other strand. I had to work each strand through the pulley to even the tension. This will get old on a busy trainig day. Any suggestions to previous users. If I have my choice I am/would go back to the tangelo tossers and use a trainrite remote launcher.
Dave.


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## Mud Diver

Tango Slim,
How can it be used manually. There is no handle to pull the pouch back? I just got mine and haven't taken it out of the box yet. Didn't get my dogtra adatper plate either but I'm sure that won't be a problem.


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## Howard N

2labs, I hope you don't mind a couple of follow up questions. 

I just looked at the Gunners Up website. Is the rubber to thick for the pulley? From the pictures it looks like a quality pulley.

I've had Strongarms for years and they have to have the cheapest pulleys available and yet they've worked for 8 years this is their 9th. I broke one which I replaced.

Just out of curiosity why would you even the stretch on the two sides of the wheel? Anything going through the wheel will have some friction loss and result in a shorter throw. 

How far did it throw a duck? 

Does the release mechanism work as advertized? Does it seem like it will be reliable for years?

Mud Diver, did you get yours assembled yet? Same questions. The big one I'm interested in is how far did it throw a duck and what you think the release mechanism reliability will be.

Handle to pull the pouch back?


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## Golddogs

> How can it be used manually. There is no handle to pull the pouch back? I just got mine and haven't taken it out of the box yet. Didn't get my dogtra adatper plate either but I'm sure that won't be a problem.


By manually they mean release. Not meant to be "hand released". 

You load it ,then trip the release manually.

GD


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## Mud Diver

I never used mine yet and this is my first winger (I'm new at this game). What would be the safest way to manually trip it Golddogs?


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## 2labs

*Gunners Up*

Howard,
To answer your questions: 1. The rubber tubing is not to big it does ride within the wheel of pulley. The pulley is extremely cheap but I do have some new ones coming. Meaning the pulley does not roll so the tubing is heavily stretched going down to be attached. This is hard to explain. If you have 1 foot through the pulley that one foot is what you are stretching down to the tension hook at the bottom of the winger. On the back side of the pulley that is attached to the pouch you could have most of your tubing without tension. I hope this makes sense. With a quality pulley it will balance itself out? I didn't throw a duck yet but a 3 inch bumper went 25-30 yards and the arch was great. You can adjust the arch by pulling the legs in/out. The release mechanism is hard core. Very durable and a neat and easy design. If you wear the release out you are doing some serious training over many years. The way the winger is made a new release will be extremely easy to replace. The pouch is heavy duty and uses an Eye Bolt to attach. I will try a duck within a couple of weeks and get back to ya. I do believe gunners up company will work with you and make things right if you have any problems. The box the winger comes is says made in china. I don't know what exactly is made in china on the winger but I would say again the pulleys definetly look like they are. 
Dave.


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## Howard N

Thanks Dave. I understand what you are saying about the pulley. It sounds like it's a pretty good launcher for the money. I'm thinking about getting a couple.


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## subroc

I just bought one and it arrived today. The first thing I did was set it up to check the pulley?s because of what you said. Mine work fine. It throws a pretty good bumper. Seems to be made well enough.

Joe Miano


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## Cray Stephenson

I've got one on the way....I'll let you know what I think. They look very nice.


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## Paul Rainbolt

Ive been using the gunners up winger for 4 months and have had no problems with any of the parts. I train 5 to 6 days a week and have used nearly every winger made at one time or another. I also own a zinger winger but prefer the gunners up over it just because it is so much easier to load. In my oppinion the gunners up folks have done a nice job of putting together a quality winger at an affordable price .


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## Patti Benton

From what I'm reading - they do look like the best wingers for the money. I have ask LabMan to give me a quote on 3 with electronics.


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## Don Smith

I have 3 Gunners Up wingers and have had no problems whatsoever. I have a 4th that is on the way. I have not measured the throw exactly, but, with one end of the tubing on the lower hooks and the other on the upper hook (my usual set-up), I believe I am getting at least 25 yard, very high arc throws - even further if I hook both ends of the tubing on the lower hooks. I'm sure if I play around with the angle that I set the legs, I can achieve the advertised 40 yards with a duck. What I was not satisfied with were the Tritronics ProControl RL that I bought elsewhere. The advertised "duck" sound is more like an electronic hockey horn. Also, one would not always hold a charge. I had a friend who had just bought the Dogra electronics call me and play its "duck" sound over the phone. Now that is a duck!!  Admittedly, it is only an attention getter and any sound could be used, but all my TT remotes are on their way back and Dogtras are on their way.


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## potshot

Forgive my stupid questions. I am serioiusly considering one of these, and I am looking for "electronics."

Is the thing ready "out of the box" to hook up "electronics"? That is, if i were to buy a TT 150 transmitter and receiver (forr eg, used from someone posting on this board), would I be ready to roll? Are there any other "parts" I would need? 

What's the servo mechanism, and how does it work?

What's the solenoid mechanism, and how does it work?

thanks


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## Paul Rainbolt

The tritronics 150 will hook up to the gunners up right out of the box.


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## Don Smith

potshot said:


> Is the thing ready "out of the box" to hook up "electronics"? That is, if i were to buy a TT 150 transmitter and receiver (forr eg, used from someone posting on this board), would I be ready to roll? Are there any other "parts" I would need?
> 
> What's the servo mechanism, and how does it work?
> 
> What's the solenoid mechanism, and how does it work?
> 
> thanks


The winger comes assembled except for the plate with the solenoid. That is in a separate box on which the test date is written (they test before they ship). It is in a separate box to protect it. All you do is bolt the plate to the winger and they are ready to roll. If you are considering using Dogtra electronics, though, you need to tell Gunners Up that so they will include the mounting plate. None needed for Tri-tronics. I'm not sure I understand your question regarding the server and the solenoid. Are you asking who manufactured them, or simply what they do? They control the release trigger is all.


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## Cray Stephenson

UPS just delivered my Gunners Up Launcher. I have it out of the box, and have already put the release on it (need to tighten it, too lazy to get the socket set out of the barn, but will at training time). Guys, this looks good! It looks well worth the money. I will use it tonight and tell ya what I think. I am much more impressed with it than the Lucyana Strongarm I have...looks much better!

I am lookin' forward to running marks this evening.


Cray


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## hxman

So, how did it go last night????


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## Cray Stephenson

I like them. Very good Value! I've got a second one coming next week. Much safer than my experience with Strongarms. Whoever it was that thought the pulleys were cheap needs to see the pulleys on my strongarms. The pulleys on the Gunners Up are nice...much better than the plastic ones on my Strongarms.

The G.U. was very consistant in mark placement, it would throw a DFT about 30-35 yds and hit very close to the exact same spot each time. We put standard bumpers in it and were amazed at the height it threw them.

We also tested how hard it would be to manually release them. It was easy! Push the latch forward and the "L" bar would hit the bottom of your shoe. Pull your foot straight back and it release nicely.

I think that this product is a really good value!


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## KC Steve

OK, here is a safety question. I have NOT seen the set up but if operating manully, would it be safe for a young child to operate? (discharge) (6 years old) or is there a safety concern with someone getting popped by the rubber bands. 

I realize electronics are available and may decide its a safer bet if she just pushes the button. Trying to find ways to get my ids involved early in the dawg games.

Thanks,


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## Okiebirdboy

*Kids and Wingers*

KC Steve,

I admire you for wanting to get your kids involved with the retrieving game but would stongly advise against children using any brand of remote launcher. Launchers produce a tremendous amount of force and need to be treated as a serious training tool. 

One advantage of using launchers is you don't have to have family members out in the field throwing for you. Which in my case always results in good intentions but bad throws and this always leads to arguments and someone gettng their feelings hurt. With the remote launchers evryone can stay back at the line, enjoy the dog work and enjoy the dog work. 8) 

OkieBirdBoy


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## KC Steve

That is what my initial thought was but figured I would ask. the $300 price tag for the remote is MUCH cheaper than a trip to the hospital, Which is nothing compared to the pain of seeing one of my little ones hurting.

Thanks,

SS


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## 2labs

*Gunners Up*

I posted about the pulleys and what I was saying is: 
I have a tangelo tosser and when I attach the ends of the bungee cord to the legs the bungee rolls through the pulleys. With the gunners up winger when I apply tension to the rubber as I start to pull down to attach to the legs the pulley's stop turning and a I basically pull the rubber through without any pulley action. This stretches the hell out of the rubber on the o-ring side of the pulley and causes extensive strain on that side of the rubber tubing. I did receive a new set of four pulleys but they are the same as the ones on the winger. Instead of cutting off the O-ring and replacing the same pulley I will go buy my own pulleys and see if the problem goes away, if it does great if not I will learn to live with it. Minus the pulleys not rolling with tension applied to the tubing I do like the winger. 
Dave.


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## JDogger

2labs,

I'm with you. the pulleys are pretty low quality, and I noticed the differtial stretch immediately. I'm going to replace the pulleys with the same size ball bearing ones from my local farm and ranch supply store. The he** with the warranty. The rest of the unit is OK except for the release catch which seems a little on the light side.
I like the latex tubing, which in my experience, seems to store and release more energy than bungee cord.

Also I've had some problems with the TT procontrol recievers not holding a charge, particularly at low temps. They were replaced promptly by TT, but the warranty only applies from the original purchase date, not the date of replacement.

Hugh


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## Guest

*I'm also having problems with the pulleys*

I'm having the same exact problem with the pulleys and am awaiting a response from Gunners Up. For those that had similar problems and contacted Gunners Up, did they send you new pulleys that worked? I'm going to look around for pulleys tomorrow.


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## Guest

*Got Feedback today from Richard at Gunners Up!*

Didn't expect to hear from him over the Easter weekend, but. . .

This guy stands by his product and will do what it takes to do right by his customers. He's shipping off two new sets of pulleys and latex tubing to replace the ones prematurely worn by the "defective" pulleys. Can't be the great value of his product and his awesome customer service!


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## Mud Diver

Did you guys try to oil the pulleys to see if that helps?


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## Guest

I did try oiling the pulleys but it did not help. You have to be careful because if you get any on the latex, it will eat through it: latex and petroleum products aren't a good mix.

If you have problems talk to or email Richard at Gunners Up. He stands by his products and will do right by the consumer. Also, I recommend you deal with Kevin Fitzgerald at Orion Dog Supply (www.oriondogsupply.com) I bought my launchers from him and he's been very helpful in assisting with the pulley and latex tubing issues as well.


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## Jeffrey Bandel

I have a Zinger and a Gunners Up. One thing I do notice is the difference in tubing. The Zinger has "tighter" tubing. The GU was looser. Also I like the Velcro receiver lock on the Zinger much more than the clip on the GU.


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## Cray Stephenson

Jeffrey Bandel said:


> Also I like the Velcro receiver lock on the Zinger much more than the clip on the GU.



I am still using older electronics...ones that have lost the clips. So I used zip ties to secure them.

Cray


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## Jay Dufour

*Be careful....*

We had one that the release arm keeps slipping out of the knotch on the trigger head....It goes off WHILE you are stretching the rubbers down! Make sure it fits in very well.I use the airluanch king electronics....Half the price of TT or Dogtra.....12 volts of power.The box sits on the ground....the power wire plugs right in...the antenna wire clips onto the winger frame,which turns the whole winger into a big antenna....no comparison. It holds MUCH more power,so theres no downtime for weak electronics. 380.00 gets you three rec,charger,transmitter that works four rec.


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## Jim Person

Jay, is there a website for the airlaunch remotes? thanks Jim


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## Ducks and Dogs

i'm not jay, but here you go

http://www.rpsite.com/airlaunchking/remote_control.htm


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## Jay Dufour

*Hey yall*

I got some of the fancy rubber tubing from Orion...it does the same thing on my zinger wingers too. the ID is too large to not catch on the sides of the pulleys.


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## Cray Stephenson

OK, saw what you were talkin' about on the pulleys. Not a "Too Cheap" issue IMHO...but a QC issue. not all of them are having problems and GU will make it right and since they have been made aware of the issue, I think they are working on it.

Cray


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## Guest

*Talk/email Richard on the pulleys*

it is a QA/QC issue. Just send him a note and he WILL take care of you. He sent me two new sets of pulleys for the launchers I bought through Orion Dog Supply. Quality product for the price with outstanding customer support. Highly recommend.


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## Jay Dufour

*Got one to try*

Hi yall.....The first day ....the roll pin fell out that hits the primer. It is just knocked in. Got some from the hardware....but they have to hacsawed off or they are too long. My dealer says they may go to servos,because of the soleniod problem.


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## JBlack

I think in the long run they will have to change the release some. Its basically the Training Group release protected between the two pieces. Other than that I think it is a great product. The customer service is great...I had the same problem with the release going off when I was pulling the latex.


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## Cray Stephenson

Hammertime said:


> I think in the long run they will have to change the release some. Its basically the Training Group release protected between the two pieces. Other than that I think it is a great product. The customer service is great...I had the same problem with the release going off when I was pulling the latex.



I've had this happen when reloading the unit. It was not because of the unit. It was my fault, I didn't secure it after it had been fired. Derek witnessed this first hand as well...if I secured the release prior to reloading it, it never happened, if I relied on it to reset itself after firing, it happened. I also pull the pouch straight back and hook it, I don't pull the individual latex back each time.


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## Cray Stephenson

*Re: Got one to try*



Jay Dufour said:


> My dealer says they may go to servos,because of the soleniod problem.


expand on the solenoid problem. I've not experienced one or heard anyone mention it? I've not experienced any problems worth concern when using my units, I think they are wonderful and priced great!


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## Kevin Fitz-Gerald

*The Problem With Solenoids; A Mini-Dissertation*

Cray, I don't know the exact problem that Jay is referring to, but I can guess. Solenoids are in many ways inferior to servos. The main problem is that the amount of force a solenoid can exert on a trigger mechanism is very low compared to a servo. That means that if you get a little rust on the moving part(s) of the trigger, or if the trigger sticks a little for any reason, or if the battery in the receiver is a little low, the solenoid may not provide enough force to trip the mechanism. With a solenoid release, there is very little margin for "error" in terms of the resistance of the trigger mechanism. That means you almost need a hair trigger when using a solenoid, or like I mentioned above, it may be unreliable. The only real advantage of the solenoid is that it does reset itself after actuation.

Because servos are geared way down, they can exert much more force than a solenoid. This gives you greater relability, even when conditions are not optimal. The Gunners Up is a great winger, but it will be even better when they convert to servos.

The main problem with servos is that they do not reset themselves. Some wingers have a spring that physically turns the servo control horn to its starting position. This is called "back driving" the servo, and it can eventually destroy the gear train. Not a good idea. Some people install a switch in the servo case to reverse the polarity of the DC pulse applied to the motor. This works OK, but you must have the transmitter in your hand when you go out to reset your winger. If you left the tx on your bucket, or your training partner has the tx, then you are out of luck.

What Tritronics, Dogtra, and now Max Power need to do is to build a "reset" switch right into the receiver case. If you use servos, push the reset switch and bingo, the servo returns to the starting position; no transmitter required. Innotek has done this for years, and it is a great feature.

Regards,
Kevin


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## Kevin Fitz-Gerald

*The Problem With Solenoids; A Mini-Dissertation*

Sorry, double post...


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## Kevin Fitz-Gerald

*The Problem With Solenoids; A Mini-Dissertation*

Cray, I don't know the exact problem that Jay is referring to, but I can guess. Solenoids are in many ways inferior to servos. The main problem is that the amount of force a solenoid can exert on a trigger mechanism is very low compared to a servo. That means that if you get a little rust on the moving part(s) of the trigger, or if the trigger sticks a little for any reason, or if the battery in the receiver is a little low, the solenoid may not provide enough force to trip the mechanism. With a solenoid release, there is very little margin for "error" in terms of the resistance of the trigger mechanism. That means you almost need a hair trigger when using a solenoid, or like I mentioned above, it may be unreliable. The only real advantage of the solenoid is that it does reset itself after actuation.

Because servos are geared way down, they can exert much more force than a solenoid. This gives you greater relability, even when conditions are not optimal. The Gunners Up is a great winger, but it will be even better when they convert to servos.

The main problem with servos is that they do not reset themselves. Some wingers have a spring that physically turns the servo control horn to its starting position. This is called "back driving" the servo, and it can eventually destroy the gear train. Not a good idea. Some people install a switch in the servo case to reverse the polarity of the DC pulse applied to the motor. This works OK, but you must have the transmitter in your hand when you go out to reset your winger. If you left the tx on your bucket, or your training partner has the tx, then you are out of luck.

What Tritronics, Dogtra, and now Max Power need to do is to build a "reset" switch right into the receiver case. If you use servos, push the reset switch and bingo, the servo returns to the starting position; no transmitter required. Innotek has done this for years, and it is a great feature.

Regards,
Kevin


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## Cray Stephenson

Thanks Kevin....appreciate the lesson 


Cray -who has an AAS and a BS in Electronics.


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## Mike Peters-labguy23

I have a few questions for owners of gunnersup wingers. Can you stack them when transporting....like on a 4-wheeler or for storage in a truck? How tall are they when stacked? Is there anything to set up other than attaching the electronics each time you train? Thanks for the info,
Mike Peters


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## Cray Stephenson

Mike Peters-labguy23 said:


> I have a few questions for owners of gunnersup wingers. Can you stack them when transporting....like on a 4-wheeler or for storage in a truck? How tall are they when stacked? Is there anything to set up other than attaching the electronics each time you train? Thanks for the info,
> Mike Peters



GU wingers pretty much fold flat. How tall are they when stacked? How tall of a stack do you want? When folded, I'd bet that they are about 2 1/2" to 3" (Shipping box is 4" with packing material)

When you get them, you must attach wires to the solenoid (plug them on) and then attach the release to the bottom of the winger via 2 bolts. It's very simple.


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## Mike Peters-labguy23

Does the solenoid stay on once you put it on the first time? I have some wingers that you have to put the trigger on everytime you use it an I hate them because they take too long to set up. I also have a shelf system in my bed of my truck they need fit under. Thanks for the info.
Mike Peters


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## Kevin Fitz-Gerald

Mike,
The solenoid and trigger assembly stays in place. The overall size (folded) of the Gunners Up is: length 64 1/4", width 25 3/4", thickness 4". They will nest to a certain degree, so that two of them stacked will be under 8" thick. You can have it setup, cocked and ready to throw in 30 seconds.
-Kevin


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## Cray Stephenson

Mike Peters-labguy23 said:


> Does the solenoid stay on once you put it on the first time? I have some wingers that you have to put the trigger on everytime you use it an I hate them because they take too long to set up. I also have a shelf system in my bed of my truck they need fit under. Thanks for the info.
> Mike Peters



Solenoid and release mechanism stay attached.

How tall is the area they need to fit under?

Cray


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## Mike Peters-labguy23

Ideal would be 7 inches but I can change that. It's too bad they are over 24 inches wide,that means they won't fit side by side between the wheelwells of a full size truck....oh well they sound a ton better to set up than mine.
Mike Peters


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## Cray Stephenson

> The overall size (folded) of the Gunners Up is: length 64 1/4", width 25 3/4", thickness 4".


That's it. Shipping size is 66"X28"X4".

Mike,
I went out and measured a winger and between the wheel wells on my truck. The winger folds flat...1" tubing and it's pretty much 1" thick with the exception of the very bottom and the release mechanism. There is a slight bend here (for better footing) and the release make the max thickness 4"

Does your shelf extend the full length of the bed (up against the tailgate)? 


Now, my truck bed is about 50" wide between the wells...but still not wide enough (51.5" min) to get 2 of these side by side. But the best thing to do is buy 2-3 of them and play with the puzzle to see how you can turn and twist to get them to nest better.  You could over lap them widthwise and it'd probably work



Cray


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## Mike Peters-labguy23

My shelf is the full length and width of the bed of my truck. I have a short bed Chevy HD. The gunners-up sound great now all I need to do is get some money for my wingers that I have now. I guess the price of steel is climbing maybe I could recycle them.
Thamks for your info Cray,
Mike Peters


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## Mike Peters-labguy23

Any idea's to convert my home-made wingers from electronic releases to manual kick style releases. I figure I will keep the crappy ones and when I train with people we can use them as manual wingers. Does anyone sell the kick style release itself? I am open for any suggestions. I need to make the old ones useful for something!
Thanks,
Mike Peters


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## Cray Stephenson

Mike Peters-labguy23 said:


> My shelf is the full length and width of the bed of my truck. I have a short bed Chevy HD. The gunners-up sound great now all I need to do is get some money for my wingers that I have now. I guess the price of steel is climbing maybe I could recycle them.
> Thamks for your info Cray,
> Mike Peters



Well, I lied. Instead of leaning the wingers against the side rail like usual, I decided to see if 2 would fit in between the wheel wells and they would, actually had about 1 1/2" to play with. I have a LWB F250 HD

Cray


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## Mike Peters-labguy23

Cray,
Sounds like they will work great. Now all I have to do is convince my wife we need more wingers. Actually she has been throwing for me since I became too frustrated to use my homemade wingers so I am sure she will cave in soon. My 1 year old son also comes along too now! He sits in his stroller coaching me on how to handle and train the dogs.


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## Jerry Roellchen

> Any idea's to convert my home-made wingers from electronic releases to manual kick style releases. I figure I will keep the crappy ones and when I train with people we can use them as manual wingers. Does anyone sell the kick style release itself? I am open for any suggestions. I need to make the old ones useful for something!
> Thanks,


Both Dogs Afield and I sell kick style triggers that clamp on to the leg of wingers to make them kick release. 

Jerry 
www.train-rite.com


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## potshot

I just ordered one today from kevin's orion dog suppy --free shipping sold it for me.

I hope i get it soon. If i like it, i will buy another when my dog starts working on doubles.


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## Mud Diver

I have one and love it. So much that I just ordered a second one. When training 3 dogs alone, walking out 100-150 yds after each throw gets to be a real pain and very time consuming. I leave my dog at sit and move the winger but this is no good because the dog knows where I am throwing from. With a second one set up (for singles) I will only have to walk half as much. Probably get a third next year but I'm buying electronics as I go and it's costly :shock:


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## D Beard

Potshot: I bet money Cray could hook ya up.
He took care of our club really well and you will be more satisfied than just "free shipping"


----------



## potshot

[email protected]*%&$ --too late -- i have already ordered. I will check with cray on my next order --IF i ever get the chance to (ie, IF my pup EVER gets to where she can do doubles) :roll:


----------



## potshot

I got mine today! Took less than 5 minutes to set it up. My TT 150 receiver fit right on, and worked great. I launched my first bumper 10 minutes after i got the thing out of the box.

The only negative is that my seems a bit rickity (sp?). It doesn't seem to sit straight, but that could be that there was a slight (very slight) slope to the area of the yard in which i had it sitting.

it throws pretty good. I am sure i will have to do some tweaking. It throw a large canvas bumper pretty well. It threw a dokken teal a country mile -- actually too far and using the short hooks.

Overall, after only 10 throws, I really like it.


----------



## Cray Stephenson

potshot said:


> The only negative is that my seems a bit rickity (sp?). It doesn't seem to sit straight, but that could be that there was a slight (very slight) slope to the area of the yard in which i had it sitting.



Did you just have it sitting on the ground or did you push the "spikes" into the ground? Take your foot and push on the "crossbars" and push those stakes into the ground. Even when it is really dry and the ground is hard, we've really not had a problem with them being rickity.


----------



## Mud Diver

I love mine but the pulley are really junky. Anyone know where I can buy better ones? Maybe get stainless?


----------



## potshot

i can see why many are complaining about the pulleys. mine don't seem to turn real weel, which seems to put extra stress on the rubbers. Is there any way to improve this without getting new pulleys. i hesitate to try wd-40 or something on them for fear that such will reduce the life of the latex. thoughts?


----------



## Mud Diver

I used WD on mine and have noticed some immature wear on the rubbers already. I called GU and he told me to use a silicone spray instead.


----------



## Guest

Mud Diver, try powdered graphite?


----------



## potshot

We honeymoon's over. The second day i went out to use it, it didn't work. I fully charged my transmitter and receivers, and no movement in the release. I got Richhard at gunners' up on the phone the first time i called. he is sending me out a new wiring harness first. (when i got the thing the plug that goes into the receiver (TT) was separated, so i just screwed it in tighter and it worked for 10 throws and i put it put -- it didn't work the next day) if that doesn't work he's going to send me a new solenoid. real nice guy. i hope it works out. 

Other than that and the fact that the pulleys aren't real consistent and it is a bit rickity (i noticed there are a couple of nuts missing. Instead of bothering richard for it, i can get them for less than the price of postage.), i love the design. good throws, good price, compact design, ettc. Ireally hope it gets fixed fast so i can get on with playing with it.


----------



## Brad B

Can you throw live flyers with the Gunners up models??


----------



## Cray Stephenson

Brad B said:


> Can you throw live flyers with the Gunners up models??


Yes, in the same manner you can with most other models.


----------



## Brad B

Sounds good, guess I'll have to add them to my list of stuff to buy.


----------



## cooter

Not that I have a lot of Money. But if Money wasn't an issue, is there a better thrower out there:

What Is It ?
What's I Cost ?
cooter


----------



## Mark Copeland

Cooter, the "Gunners Up" is a knock-off of the "Winger Zinger". I own two mini zingers (just a few months old) after six years with "Strong Arms". I can tell you they are a first class design. Two other members in our training group has had zingers for years and there's never been a problem. 

Zingers 499
Min ZIngers 469


----------



## Cray Stephenson

Mark Copeland said:


> Cooter, the "Gunners Up" is a knock-off of the "Winger Zinger". I own two mini zingers (just a few months old) after six years with "Strong Arms". I can tell you they are a first class design. Two other members in our training group has had zingers for years and there's never been a problem.
> 
> Zingers 499
> Min ZIngers 469




Gunners Up $275 and are a great value. Aren't they all knock offs of a sling shot?


----------



## Mark Copeland

> Not that I have a lot of Money. But if Money wasn't an issue, is there a better thrower out there:
> 
> What Is It ?
> What's I Cost ?
> cooter





> Cooter, the "Gunners Up" is a knock-off of the "Winger Zinger". Zingers 499
> Min ZIngers 469


Cray, I was just answering Cooter's question along with a reason you're paying $200 more for the Zingers-they don't have any problems and no one is complaining about cheap pulleys, being rickety or solenoid malfunctions. You get what you pay for.


----------



## captdan

Got my Gunners Up and took it to the field Saturday, woorks great. I am going to order two more.

Dan


----------



## Cray Stephenson

> You get what you pay for.



In the case of Gunners up, IMHO, you get more than you pay for them.

Gunners up is a new product for the Go Fit Company. On this forum, there is alot more talk about their product than the Zinger, a lot more discussion. Therefore you'd expect to hear the good and the bad. Since there is less discussion, can we assume that there are issues with the Zinger that just aren't getting out...but are being given a chance to be made right? Can we assume that the More Discussion on GU = more people buying them because of the price...maybe these people can not justify spending near $500 on what they can have for about half of that. 


As far as them being Rickity, I haven't experienced that at all. I have experienced one set of bad pulleys that G.U. made good on by sending out a new set of pulleys. CKHRA bought a few of them, one had a cut wire in it, I traded them one of mine for it and I fixed the "open" wire in about 10 minutes. 10 minutes of my time changing pulleys, 10 minutes of my time fixing a wire....is that worth the $400 that was saved on these 2 wingers???? I think so. If you can get a quality product for $200 less than the competition, why wouldn't you? I drive a Ford Truck. Would be nice to have a Lincoln Navigator, but the Ford Truck does every thing I need it to do, at a better price. So why would someone pay the extra money for a Zinger over a G.U.? Are they buying a name? Both throw ducks the same and the dogs can't tell the difference.


Cray
[/quote]


----------



## Mike Peters-labguy23

I think Cray hit the nail right on the head. I got my GU-wingers 2 weeks a go and I love them. They were great right out of the box. The solenoid works flawlessly and the pulleys are high quality. 

I showed 2 training partners the GU-wingers and both are placing orders. That says a lot. I am in sales as a profession and when you get repeat sales from word of mouth you know you have a great product or service!

Mike Peters


----------



## Kevin Fitz-Gerald

*Gunners Up; the BEST value in wingers today, period.*

Cray is exactly right. You don't see complaints about the Zingers here, but believe me, I hear them all the time. People have problems with the Zinger release (both old style and new style). I have had people with Zingers tell me they like the release system on the GU better than the new Zinger release.

Another thing; the last Zinger I sold cost $60.00 to ship to Wisconsin from Canada. Add that to the cost of the Zinger. 

There is simply no reason to buy a Zinger anymore, unless you are rolling in money and just want the name "Zinger" on your equipment. At one recent hunt test where they used Zingers, they had all kinds of no-birds. At another hunt test where Zingers were used in the morning on land, there were a few no-birds. They used a GU in the afternoon on water and had zero no-birds. Same bird boys.

The Gunners Up is not perfect, but neither is the Zinger. There is no winger on the market that you will not have some problems with occasionally. You simply get more bang for your buck with the Gunners Up.


----------



## carolinagold

Hey guys,

I am not a dealer but if people are not speaking bad about a product on the forum there is a reason- a majority of them are satisfied. I have had zingers for 2 years now since I started on this habit and I am very satisfied- they work as stated on their site. I have nothing against gunners up and if they prove they are worthy I might buy one. But if you train alone and you are 150 yards away and it malfunctions I assure you the $ difference will make a difference. This is from a guy that has a two year old retriever and that is when I started. I have worked in retail for many years and I am sorry if there are that many dissatisfied Zinger customers out there I assure you they will be heard. 

Thanks for your time
________
extreme vaporizer


----------



## hxman

Just ordered a gunner's up launcher with dogtra releases....... Will let you know how it all works out... lol


----------



## RAB

I have been reading up on the gunner's up. Looks like a good product so far. Looking for new updates on how it is working in the field and if pulleys are still giving trouble. Not sure which remote yet TT,Dogtra, or Airlaunch any input would be appreciated. 8)


----------



## Mike Peters-labguy23

No problems with my pulleys on my GU's or my dogtra electronics.
Mike Peters


----------



## RAB

I ordered my gunners up this morning from kevin @ orion. I cant wait to get it and try it out. I train alone so it will be nice not to feel like i just pitched 9 innings. LOL 8)


----------



## Howard N

Yup, now it'll feel just like you did a bunch of wind sprints.


----------



## Brad B

Okay ya'll talked me into it. Ordered me one yesterday. We'll see.....


----------



## RAB

Mine should be delivered today. Feel like a 5 year old X-mas morning!! 8)


----------



## Mud Diver

Anyone get caught in the rain and then have trouble with it after that. I got caught in the rain the other day but when I got hom I oiled everything down and hoping nothing begins to malfunction.


----------



## Cray Stephenson

Mud Diver said:


> Anyone get caught in the rain and then have trouble with it after that. I got caught in the rain the other day but when I got hom I oiled everything down and hoping nothing begins to malfunction.



Nope


----------



## rarintogolabs

*Gunners up*

You get what you pay for. This unit will not hold up for any long term use.The solenoids are a malfunctioning nightmare.Get them wet or any dirt in them and they quit.What you need to use is a AUTOWINGER. They have been used in more HRC Grands than any other thrower because they Throw better, both higher and further than any winger out there, and are alot more consistant.They are also used by TOP Pro's.Ask them /Charlie Jurney,Scott Baldwin,Richard McDonald,James Brengoz, Stacy West,Woody Thurmond,and many more.Lots of retriever clubs are using them because of the great consistancy of the throws.You have more vercitility than any other winger because whe you stake it down you're type of throw (high/low,long/short) is infinate.Autowinger.com


----------



## RAB

I got mine in this morning, and tried it out. It took no time to set up and start throwing dokkens. I am really pleased with it. 8)


----------



## Cray Stephenson

*Re: Gunners up*



rarintogolabs said:


> You get what you pay for.


I believe that the Gunners Up is a great value. The problems I've had are minor and the company is taking care of their problems. Only problems I've had were simple to correct. Pulleys, had one that was a problem, GU supplied replacement and GU is now testing them before shipping. I had one that had a cut wire and I fixed it in less than 10 minutes and then this weekend, I had the mounting bolts on a servo back out, 5 minutes and some lock tite and it's fixed. I've not had any problems with the servos that aren't related to them being servos. 

If you ever have any problems, Gunners up gives a warranty on all hardware and electrical components for the lifetime of the product. 

IMHO, it's a good product at a great price.

Cray


----------



## rarintogolabs

OK Just wait and tell me that in a year. The training groups have a bad problem with the solenoids. Don't take my word for it ask the people that I listed in my post. tHEY WERE CONSTANTLY having problems with the solenoids not going off .The Gunzup is nothing more than a cheap copy of a Zinger and a Training group. I talked to the guy that builds them at the texas Grand.He acted as if he wasn't sure how all of it even worked. For the money the best winger on the market is the Autowinger. It has been proven over a test of time.


----------



## rarintogolabs

I would like to add that even in you previous posts that you were worried that something would go wrong with it if it rained. I have seen a AutoWinger that was UNDER WATER for 12hrs and worked on the first time. Show me a solenoid that will do that.


----------



## Cray Stephenson

rarintogolabs said:


> I would like to add that even in you previous posts that you were worried that something would go wrong with it if it rained.


I'm not calling you a liar, but I don't remember saying a thing about that, will you please show me where I said anything about that.


As for Solenoids, they have there limitations without a doubt, but Gunners Ups have no more problems than others that use Solenoids. 

As far as Gunners Ups Solenoids getting wet, a "Normal" rain will not get the solenoid so wet that it won't work. I gulley washer might and definately submersing one would keep them from working (But why would you let one get submerged for 12 hours and then try to use it, even a solenoid will work when allowed to dry out)

As for me talking with your list of trainers, I know that they endorse them. Didn't know that Woody THURMAN was using them (Thanks for informing me).


Prior to using the Gunners Up, I'd used Strongarms for a several years, the servo release worked nicely, but I feel much safer with the Gunners Up overall. I've also used Shur Flytes and have never had a problem with their solenoid release.

What would your argument be if the G.U. had a servo release over a Solenoid? Even if you had to go buy a $25 servo at a hobby store and mount it, it would still be a value over the Zinger.


----------



## rarintogolabs

I know you weren't calling me a liar.I think for the money they are a better deal than a zinger. Ijust know you can do even better with a AutoWinger than both of them.Servos will work better than solenoids in the long run.
You still have to doctor a servo if you put them in the other units so they will work with the other electronics.You also have to do some enganeering to get thr servos to reset themselves. Check out the [email protected] Autowinger.com or Dogs-afield. You can always come on down and train with me and I'll show you how they work.


----------



## Cray Stephenson

rarintogolabs said:


> I know you weren't calling me a liar.


I'm still not...but I went back over the thread and can't find where I said anything about being worried about performance in wet weather. Please correct me if I have overlooked something.



rarintogolabs said:


> Servos will work better than solenoids in the long run.


Agreed.



rarintogolabs said:


> You also have to do some enganeering to get thr servos to reset themselves.


Or you reset them by hand...been there, done that.




rarintogolabs said:


> You can always come on down and train with me and I'll show you how they work.


Who and where are ya....and be careful, I might take you up on it.


Edit note, Looked at your site and see that you are Bryan Maxwell...still might take you up on it.


----------



## D Beard

Hey Bryan M. (Rarintogolabs):

I train with Cray regularly using the GU wingers and they work great and we highly recommend the product.

Since you are the designer and promoter of the Auto Winger would you go out on a limb and send 2 to me for testing?? 

Fair internet evaluation of your product and the GU winger.

Also what is retail on your winger with release?


----------



## rarintogolabs

*Winger*

Why don't you go to a HRC grand and you will see how they work,over and over again.Or better yet call one of your buddies that have run in the grand and they will tell you.
I have 2 models; Standard is 300 and the MOJO is 365 
I can do them in custom colors also(clubs can keep up with there stuff better)look at autuwinger.com


----------



## hxman

The only reason you have such a hard-on for the autowinger is the fact that you sell/build them. Competition is good for the market. I have also just received the gunner's up, I could buy 2 for the price of one Zinger. So far so good, time will tell. However, how can one go wrong with a life time warranty and good customer service? I'm sure the Gunner's Up has cut into the profits of other makers of remote throwers..... Too bad.... :roll:


----------



## potshot

are the autowingers ready to go (ie, just put a remote on it) out of the box?

what are the dimensions? How small do they fold up for storage? What are the differences between the mojo and standards?


----------



## RAB

hxman said:


> The only reason you have such a hard-on for the autowinger is the fact that you sell/build them. Competition is good for the market. I could buy 2 for the price of one Zinger. So far so good, time will tell. However, how can one go wrong with a life time warranty and good customer service?


 You couldn't have summed it up any better. :shock:


----------



## D Beard

> Why don't you go to a HRC grand and you will see how they work,over and over again.Or better yet call one of your buddies that have run in the grand and they will tell you.
> I have 2 models; Standard is 300 and the MOJO is 365
> I can do them in custom colors also(clubs can keep up with there stuff better)look at autuwinger.com


Good marketing? I will surely drive to Texas from Kentucky this Fall and spend $2000 to run the Grand and to just see your new better than all autowinger. In order to push your product you need to get it in the hands of more trainers. More people that are impressed by your product the more lip service you will receive and in return more sales. How many people have heard of Autowinger prior to this week?

Standard and Mojo includes what features? Does that include the release or is that just the price of the winger? What does just your release cost?

I have looked at your website and that is how we know who you are. I would like to see your product. 

Do you offer a HRC club discount?


----------



## rarintogolabs

*Autowinger*

The reason you should drive from KY to texas is because you want to participate in a great event.The best trainers in the country are at the Grand.If you have dogs capeable of doing the work so should you. We would love to have you.
THe diff in the wingers is this:Standard is a basic winger with the release, Pull it back and set it youre done. It is a good throw for akc people.
The MOJO is a pulley system that throws the hell out of a duck.Because of the pulleys it is easy for a much smaller person can load them. They are 88 inches long and fold up into a 6inch tube.
Yes I sell the release by itself. It will fit on any winger that Has one inch square tubing.Manual model is $99 and the electronic one is $149
Listen guys I started building these to help people with there training .I have been training dogs succesfully for almost 20 years,I have done my research and these things work well.If you would like to call me my # is on the webite and we can talk about the discount.I have seen my competition and I am offering you an alternative.
Oh yeah I forgot to add Chris Aiken who won the ESPN GOG last year also uses them.


----------



## Okiebirdboy

Bryan Maxwell,

If I leave my $1100.00 Super Black Eagle out in the rain it will corude, rust and quit cycling. It doesn't matter what you pay for your product, if you don't take care of it, it will rust and jam. If it has moving metal parts you have to clean it. End of story.

A couple of thoughts on Auto Winger

1) I would hate to have to haul that bulky son of a gun around in the field. 
2) Your precious servo is two exposed. The fly wheel that your linkage is attached to is too exposed as well (Achiles Heel), could and does get knocked off in transportation. 
3) First thing they teach in marketing is never go negative. Negative advertising never works, always take the high road and prove you have a better mouse trap. 
4) Second thing they teach you in marketing is never bad mouth your compitition dirrectly. Especially when you may run into that big SOB again at the next grand. :shock: 
5) Obviously the Grand doesn't think you have a lock on the market or they wouldn't have asked Rich from Gunners Up to donate a couple units for the auction and to speak at the handlers meeting.
6) A lot of good Pro's use and train with the Gunners Up: Jeff Henard @ High Praise Ret., Joseph McCann @ Rock Erin Ret., Johnny, Keith, and Derrick @ War Eagle Ret. all good trainers all using Gunners Up.

Just a few thoughts,best of luck and don't be so dang negative next time!

Okie Bird Boy


----------



## Cray Stephenson

*Re: Winger*



rarintogolabs said:


> Why don't you go to a HRC grand and you will see how they work,over and over again.Or better yet call one of your buddies that have run in the grand and they will tell you.


Did you donate them to HRC to be used in the Grand? Or donate to the host club? 



rarintogolabs said:


> I have 2 models; Standard is 300 and the MOJO is 365


What is the difference in them? Website doesn't mention either.



rarintogolabs said:


> I can do them in custom colors also(clubs can keep up with there stuff better)look at autuwinger.com


I've looked, there is very little info on there yet. It seems like it was launched quickly. It doesn't tell me where you are located either (so can't take you up on your offer to "Come on down". 

If you really want to generate hits on it, type in the whole website, Http and all, and it will create a hyper link. People hate to cut and paste.

If you really felt that your winger was better, you'd take Derek up on his offer to evaluate it in a side by side comparison to the Gunners Up. Would cost you little and if you "Won", the lip service advertizing on this and other forums (Derek's got a big mouth) would be priceless. 

But the defensiveness you portray appears that you don't want to put your money where your mouth is. You list a bunch of Pros (a few of whom I've known personally for many years) but, with the exception of a blurb on CJ's site (Along with Airlaunch King), I've never heard any of them mention your wingers. In Fact, the only time I've ever heard mention of them is when you are trying to build your wingers up by tearing other brands down. 

Derek's made a great offer, one that could benefit you on this forum, other forums and in Public *IF * your winger is the best.


..........................
Now Bryan, I direct you back to my last post...

...but I went back over the thread and can't find where I said anything about being worried about performance in wet weather. Please correct me if I have overlooked something.

2X I've asked you to prove your statement 




> I would like to add that even in you previous posts that you were worried that something would go wrong with it if it rained.


----------



## Kurt-MO

So far, I love the GU's I got from Cray. Not only do they work well, but they look good sitting in the garage when I'm not training!!  

I do have one problem though Cray. My darling wife noticed the pretty blue pouches on the new wingers yesterday....(I think I've had them for what...a month???  )

She says....."what are those". I says....."the new wingers I bought with the money from selling the old launchers I had"... She says....."Ohhhh...hmmmmmm"

End of conversation.

So Cray, should the wife call, or you ever have a chance to meet, you have to remember this small phrase......

"Whatever Kurt said it cost....I don't quite remember..." :wink: 

Take care and thanks for the great product.

Kurt


----------



## Mud Diver

I am the one who asked how if anyone had a problem with them working after getting caught in the rain. I believe the reply from the man was "NOPE". 

End of discussion (I hope) :wink:


----------



## Cray Stephenson

Kurt-MO said:


> So Cray, should the wife call, or you ever have a chance to meet, you have to remember this small phrase......
> 
> "Whatever Kurt said it cost....I don't quite remember..." :wink:


I think I can remember that.....

Kurt...
BTW, I am supposed to take the boys to sit in an Apache this weekend. They are pretty pumped for it, (This big boy is lookin' forward to it as well). 

Talk to you later


----------



## Chris Atkinson

I'm confused.

Rarintogo,

Are you the manufacturer of the product?

Please advise. Thanks! Chris Atkinson


----------



## Jay Dufour

*Sorry...*

Training group yesterday...GUNNERS UP........after third dog....replaced with hand thrown birds.They need rework on engineering.Good try.I have one I havnt used yet.......anyone want to make an offer?


----------



## Mud Diver

What was the problem?


----------



## Brad B

"They need rework on engineering."

What exactly does that mean? Were the throws inconsistant or what? Please clarify so I will know if I want ot even open mine and use it tommorrow.
Thanks


----------



## Cray Stephenson

Please be specific about what you didn't like


----------



## Howard N

Cray, I'll tell you what I didn't like.

I worked my first one side by side with a Zinger Winger last Saturday. I am used to my Strongarms where I just force the pouch down onto the door latch and I'm cocked and ready to go when I put a bird in. I do that with my friend's Zinger and I thought I should be able to do it with the Gunners Up. I did once, but the pouch started to rip and the rubber bands got way overstretched on the pouch side of the pulleys and I thought I might break one if I pushed any harder. The rubber just didn't want to go through those pulleys. The little it would feed was way herky jerky one rubber band at a time giving a little bit. Also the throw was significantly shorter than the Zinger (like I said they were side by side). 

I think a set of pulleys that would actually work would make that machine work fine. If it it were mine, I'd replace those pulleys in a heartbeat.


----------



## Brad B

Judging by earlier post, I thought they had fixed the pulley problem. how could I tell by looking at them if I have the "fixed" version.?


----------



## rarintogolabs

Show them to the Chinese kid who built them. He can tell you.


----------



## Cray Stephenson

Howard N said:


> Cray, I'll tell you what I didn't like.
> 
> I worked my first one side by side with a Zinger Winger last Saturday. I am used to my Strongarms where I just force the pouch down onto the door latch and I'm cocked and ready to go when I put a bird in. I do that with my friend's Zinger and I thought I should be able to do it with the Gunners Up. I did once, but the pouch started to rip and the rubber bands got way overstretched on the pouch side of the pulleys and I thought I might break one if I pushed any harder. The rubber just didn't want to go through those pulleys. The little it would feed was way herky jerky one rubber band at a time giving a little bit. Also the throw was significantly shorter than the Zinger (like I said they were side by side).
> 
> I think a set of pulleys that would actually work would make that machine work fine. If it it were mine, I'd replace those pulleys in a heartbeat.



Howard, it sounds like those are a set of the bad pulleys (The QC issue discussed earlier). G.U. is testing all of them prior to shipping now.

Have the owner contact his retailer or contact GU and ask them to send him a new set.

Cray


----------



## Cray Stephenson

Brad B said:


> Judging by earlier post, I thought they had fixed the pulley problem. how could I tell by looking at them if I have the "fixed" version.?



Brad, 

They test them before sending them now.


----------



## Cray Stephenson

rarintogolabs said:


> Show them to the Chinese kid who built them. He can tell you.



Don't know if anyone has told you, but your sarcasm has added so much life to this thread! Keep it up, let's keep the GU thread on top of the page!!!

Cray


----------



## Brad B

Thanks Cray. And I too am greatly enjoying the sarcastic, grade school like remarks of the marketing genius.!!


----------



## potshot

I am rather surprised at the marketing ploy of rarintogo. I have a GU and I love it, and I am buying a second winger in the next couple of days. I don't like the sarcasm. Doesn't sit right with me. One thing that comes to mind is the treatment i would likely get with their customer service. Talking down another's product is never the way to go. I am gong to stick with the GU as soon as i 

(FWIW--compare this guy's tactics to that of the sportdog guy on here. I don't think he's ever badmouthed either TT or Dogtra. He talks about his product, and he asks us how they can satisfy us re features etc. Good move on his part --leaves a good taste in my mouth re their product, even though i don't own one and will personally stay with TT. But, I mention sportdog to friends now who are asking me about collars. )


----------



## Don Smith

potshot said:


> I am rather surprised at the marketing ploy of rarintogo. I have a GU and I love it, and I am buying a second winger in the next couple of days. I don't like the sarcasm. Doesn't sit right with me. One thing that comes to mind is the treatment i would likely get with their customer service. Talking down another's product is never the way to go. I am gong to stick with the GU as soon as i
> 
> (FWIW--compare this guy's tactics to that of the sportdog guy on here. I don't think he's ever badmouthed either TT or Dogtra. He talks about his product, and he asks us how they can satisfy us re features etc. Good move on his part --leaves a good taste in my mouth re their product, even though i don't own one and will personally stay with TT. But, I mention sportdog to friends now who are asking me about collars. )


Agreed!!! I've got 4 Gunners Ups and have been thinking lately about buying two more. Yeah, I've had a couple of little problems, including one pulley problem, but their customer service is great. When I had one bad pulley, they sent 4 replacements, plus new rubbers, straps, etc. Even if they hadn't, I can buy one heck of a lot of pulleys with the price difference, including the difference between my GUs and the "new one" being promoted in such a tasteless way here. And, unlike the one post above, mine throw a duck plenty far. Very seldom do I see the need to stretch the rubbers to "maximum throw."


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## RAB

Brad B said:


> I too am greatly enjoying the sarcastic, grade school like remarks of the marketing genius.!!


Once again rarintogolabs i see you are still making new friends. :shock:


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## Jay Dufour

*Clarify...*

The earlier post I made may not have been real clear.Yes,the three GU wingers were replaced by hand thrown.The GU dealer started out with them in the field.After some no birds through the wingers faults,he changed from the TT remotes to Dogtra remotes,which were not responding because of the plugs.
Just as a suggestion....I have been coating all my carbon steel parts on wingers with Plasti-Dip.Its a spray on rubberizer from Lowes.I use it on the inside of kennel boxes,tools,parts ect.It turns to rubber when it cures.


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## Chris Atkinson

I will ask again.

Rarintogo,

Are you the manufacturer of the product you claim to be superior to the one about which this thread was created? "Autowinger", I think you called it?

Please respond.

Thanks!

Chris Atkinson


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## Brad B

Ladies and gents it appears that rarintogo is not so raring to go !!!


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## rarintogolabs

*wingers*

Oh I am plenty rarin to go . Some of us actually train there dogs instead of talk about it!!!!!


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## Don Smith

*Re: wingers*



rarintogolabs said:


> Oh I am plenty rarin to go . Some of us actually train there [sic] dogs instead of talk about it!!!!!


Another fine example of salesmanship.


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## JBlack

Alright guys, I have been lurking with this topic for the last few days. While I may not agree with everything "rarintogo" has said from a salesmanship point of view, I have to admit that he does make a good quality winger. I have BOTH and train with both 4-5x per week (I have 2 Autowinger releases and 1 GU). The reason I have the release is simple: I had 2 Training Group wingers and got tired of the inconsistent release, so I got 2 releases made by AutoWinger-- at the time I had no idea who made them. I then bought a GU to try...the price is very appealing. I had to replace the release on the GU 1x. Customer service was great. I have had no further problems with it...even though it is the same release as the Training Group and I anticipate that sometime in the future it will give me problems. When comparing it to the AutoWinger I have to say it does NOT throw further than the AutoWinger. The Autowinger is built better in every way possible. While I do not have the winger itself by AutoWinger, I train with a pro who does and can honesly say if it holds up to his daily wear and tear they are made very well. 
In a nutshell:
*both throw good marks but the AW throws them better
*the AW is built much better
*the GU is cheaper
Again this is just my opinion and the conclusions I have based on my experience with BOTH wingers. This is not aimed at anyone personal, just merely my .02


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## Cray Stephenson

JBlack said:


> In a nutshell:
> *both throw good marks but the AW throws them better
> *the AW is built much better
> *the GU is cheaper



Does it throw them "better" or further? The GU wingers I have are very consistent with their throw and if I set them up at 150+ yards, I don't need it to throw 60 yds further, but I do need accuracy and being able to repeat the placement. The GU gives that too me (I am not saying that the Autowinger doesn't), but I am asking what does "Better" mean to you?

The GU is built to be light weight, it could be built heavier, but I wouldn't want to carry 2-3 of them into the field if it was. I don't know what the autowinger weighs, but I bet that it is noticebly heavier than the Gunners up and that weight translates into being "Built much better" This weight would also make them charge more for the winger.

The G.U is Cheaper and that translates into savings to the consumer. This money can be used to buy more launchers or other training equipment and can translate into multiple marks compared with a single mark. (You can buy 2 Gunners up for the price of one Zinger).

The gunners up also comes with a lifetime warranty on all hardare and electrical components for the Lifetime of the product. And their customer service is great. 
They all throw marks, the dogs don't know which one is which.

So, it's up to the consumer to decide what is the better value for them.

Cray


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## D Beard

Bryan,



> For detailed discussion of retriever training products, veterinary supplies, etc. (Suppliers, you are welcome to respond to consumers through this board, but don't make it a free advertising campaign! Abuse by commercial suppliers will not be fun for anyone.)


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## JBlack

Cray, It throws them higher and further. Yes, the throws are consistent too. I find it rather easy to carry 2 AW and 1 GU during training. You are correct about the buyer having a choice...I think its healthy for everyone to have choice. I would not pay the $$ for a Zinger. I think they are nice but I can get the same thing for a considerbly less.


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## Chris Atkinson

*Re: wingers*



rarintogolabs said:


> Oh I am plenty rarin to go . Some of us actually train there dogs instead of talk about it!!!!!


Bryan,

I just got your private message. I look forward to receiving your phone call. I agree that you surely do have some great knowledge and experience to share with the RTF folks. 

Welcome to the boards. Please remember the golden rule. 

Sincerely,

Chris Atkinson


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## rarintogolabs

Thank you Chris.I will do my best.


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## Brad B

Hey rarin...I was just jabbin' at ya' !! All in fun. 

Seriously, canyou give me a link to your website so I can look at your launchers? I am really interested in seeing what all is available. Just bought my first GU launcher and am in the market for a second launcher soon. I'm willing to look at what yours offers.


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## Scott Galloway

Alright I will throw my hat in the ring but first must make a disclaimer. Rarintogo is a friend of mine and I learned much (even though it is still only a small amount) of what I know about dogs from him and I train with him when I can. That being said I work to hard and am to cheep to throw money away. When it was time to buy wingers I looked at them all and then bought Autowingers. No they were not given to me or sold to me a cost. I bought what I felt would be the best value I could find. Value being defined as cost, throw, versatility, and maneuverability. The Autowinger is not #1 in all the categories but did provide the best value (as defined above) for my money. I recently went to a HT that used the G.U. in started. I thought the throw was good for land but left allot to be desired on the water. Almost every dog ran the bank because the bird did not go out far enough. The Autowinger with mojo would have put it out there so the pups would not have wanted to run the bank. Now there a few changes I would make on the Autowinger and I have already made my suggestions to whom it concerns. 
All that being said I will say that any winger beats the paints off me sitting in the field throwing bird. I have allot of experience at that?. :lol:


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## potshot

based on the above sales techniques and the good experience i have had with gunners up, i bought a second one today. I can't wait until i can throw doubles by myself finally.


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## dukdawgn

*equipment*

I am a very very broke just-out-of-college kid, so I'm the probably the most skeptical person here, when it comes to my money. As I said, I'm broke, so I'll fill you in on this much.... my training equipment consists of 4 orange bumpers, 3 white bumpers, and an old Dogtra e-collar (I won the sweeps to get that one). I don't buy, simply because I can not afford. So my view of the wingers is strictly on a "I wish I had" basis....

Bryan, 
I've been behind the wheel of your wingers as a bird tech at the Memphis Grand. They do an outstanding job. The adjustability to find the perfect trajectory is great, the consistency of the tight area of fall is great, the low noise is fantastic, and the extreme low chance of a no-bird is the best. A simple unit to load for birds, the youngest of bird boys can do this without worry of messing up. In short, with this many +'s for my dogs learning, I'd certainly tote them around the field, no matter the carry method, cause its worth it for the dog. I'd love to own a set, but as I said, I'm poor. 

GunsUp folks,
Seen the web, seen the Zinger, never seen the GU in person, but I've used the Zinger (once again, they are somebody else wingers, as I am poor), and if they throw like a Zinger, I'd certainly entertain them too. Look pretty easy to move, as a Zinger is too, and throws consistent. But the no-bird chance is more with a zinger-type (when its scout troops throwing birds) than with an Bryan-type. 

To me, it all comes down to how much effort you're willing to put into marks, aside from the winger. A knowledgable person will be able to use either/or to get a good mark. A young kid will have better luck with the more robust maxwell winger. For my marks in training, I could use both (but I can't because I'm poor), but for my hunt test with the troops manning the wingers, I'd go with the maxwells. Nothing slacking to the GU or Zinger, but I believe my hunt test would go smoother with a maxwell.

-no paid advertisement here (if it were, I could afford one of either)


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## rarintogolabs

*winger*

Thank you for the kind word.


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## Davin Marceau

> I am a very very broke just-out-of-college kid





> I'm broke





> I'm broke





> I'm poor





> I am poor





> I can't because I'm poor


You aren't broke are you?  

I'm about to join your ranks as I'm getting out of the Army in September.

Davin


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## Guest

*New & Improved*

I just found out from the rep at Gunners Up that they are redesigning this unit. They are replacing the solenoid with a servo for more ruggedness and releasing "strength", for lack of a better word.

The newly designed model is supposed to be out in mid-to-late August.

This may be just what is needed to put this launcher into the top-of-the-line category, especially considering the price. He says that the new price will go up by$20 or so to $295.

I was just about to get a couple, but now I'm going to wait for the new version.

Bob


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## Mud Diver

I wonder if they'll accept trade ins on the release portion?


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## Guest

*They might -*

only one to find out......


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## Brad B

That's about my luck. I finally break down and buy something and then they make the improvements !!!!


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## hxman

I was told the upgrade will be free of charge, well almost, you help with the shipping.... Good service if you ask me.....


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## Cray Stephenson

hxman said:


> I was told the upgrade will be free of charge, well almost, you help with the shipping.... Good service if you ask me.....



I've been told something similar, that Gunners Up would make it a "No Brainer" to upgrade.

Cray


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## Mud Diver

Do we contact GU to upgrade?


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## hxman

No call Zinger..... :roll: :roll:


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## Cray Stephenson

Mud Diver said:


> Do we contact GU to upgrade?





hxman said:


> No call Zinger..... :roll: :roll:


Hehehehehehe, that's funny.

Mud diver, You could contact them directly or you could contact the dealer that you originally purchased the launchers from.


Cray


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## Paul Rainbolt

Upgrades are not available at this time. I trained with Rich(gunners up) on saturday tried out the new servo prototype and its going to be fantastic. Hang in there it wont be long.


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## Cray Stephenson

Tulsa Slim said:


> Upgrades are not available at this time. I trained with Rich(gunners up) on saturday tried out the new servo prototype and its going to be fantastic. Hang in there it wont be long.



Correct, should be 4-6 weeks from what I've heard.

Cray


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## hxman

NOTE: Effective 7/16/04, Gunners Up has halted shipments of launchers until approximately 8/16/04. The reason is that they are redesigning the release mechanism, and it will take four weeks to get it into production. The new release will feature a servo trip mechanism for increased reliability, and a lower profile to facilitate stacking. We have been assured that it will be worth the wait! Thank you for your patience.


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## Don Smith

Cray Stephenson said:


> Tulsa Slim said:
> 
> 
> 
> Upgrades are not available at this time. I trained with Rich(gunners up) on saturday tried out the new servo prototype and its going to be fantastic. Hang in there it wont be long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, should be 4-6 weeks from what I've heard.
> 
> Cray
Click to expand...

Rich told me the same, both on the quality and reliability of the new release and the availability. I can't wait.

Cray - I forgot to write down your quote on 2 more that you gave me a couple of weeks ago. Would you PM me please?


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## Gunners Up

*Gunners Up*

Hello Everyone,

I thought I had better join in here and clear up the Gunners Up fog. Yes, we are upgrading our release mechanism to a servo driven release. This change is currently in the works (New Molds and Retooling) and should be completed around the third week in August. 

I do not think it is fair for us to make a change to our launchers and penalize those that supported us early on. My plan is to provide the new release free of charge to our current customers with a $10.00 shipping and handling charge. As you can imagine, this is going to be a very expensive undertaking for us, but if it keeps our current customers out in the field training with Gunners Up Launchers then it is well worth the investment. As I tell all of our customers, Gunners Up is not a short term proposition for us, we are in this for the long haul.

Best of luck to all of you as the Fall Hunt Test and Trial season approaches and I hope Gunners Up can be apart of your success!

Take care and Good Training!

Rich Davis
Gunners Up


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## Mud Diver

Now that's customer service. Hey Rich, are you going to contact the people who bought wingers already are do we contact you?


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## Gunners Up

*Gunners Up*

Mud Diver,

First of all, what kind of ducks are those hanging off of that boat? You need to come up to Oklahoma and shoot some bigger birds for that dawg!

Since the Retriever Community is such a wired in community, I will put a post up (if Chris will let me) notifying that the upgrade is availible and we will update our site with instructions on how to go about recieving the upgrade.

Until then keep on training!

Thanks,

Rich Davis


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## hxman

Do you have any pics of the new mods?????


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## Mud Diver

I bought my 2 wingers through Bart Posey at Wonderlabs Kennels and told him I am monitoring this thread for updates. The ducks are Grey Ducks (Gadwalls). I only shoot about 2 or 3 Mallards a year  Just not in my neck of the woods. I would love to get up there and shoot some Greenheads. But I also bag about 180 to 200 birds (mostly Pintail, Widgeon, Greys, Teal, and Mottled Ducks) a year which is more than satifying for me  

If Chris let's you post it on this site, please keep it on this thread since many of us are monitoring it. Thanks man.

PS
Did you get the release I sent back to youyet? The new one intermittently sticks so I can't wait for the update.


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## Don Smith

*Re: Gunners Up*



Gunners Up said:


> This change is currently in the works (New Molds and Retooling) and should be completed around the third week in August.
> 
> Rich Davis
> Gunners Up


Hey, Rich - Are you aware that my birthday is the third week of August? Hint, hint, hint. :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## hxman

Any word, are they ready to ship yet???? :lol:


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## Mud Diver

Keep me posted too.


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## RAB

Same here 8)


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## Cray Stephenson

*Re: Gunners Up*

Ya'll aren't eager for the new releases are you? Remember, Rich said.... 



Gunners Up said:


> This change is currently in the works (New Molds and Retooling) and should be completed around the third week in August.


It's the start of the second week in August...patience Young Grasshopper. I too look forward to the new releases.

Cray


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## hxman

For sure.... I was in the process of ordering 3 more releases when they decided to make the change, so I am waiting.. lol

How many companies have redesigned the release??? Quite a few I think...


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## Don Smith

Cray, I know Rich said the third week of August - just like my birthday - August 17. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cpayne

I saw a proto type last week and must say they are much improved. Can't wait for mine.

Cpayne


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## hxman

So what is different???????


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## cpayne

Everything about the new release is different. It should make a huge improvement. I'll let Richard give details on the actual design as he may not be ready for that to be public.


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## hxman

I hope it comes out sooner than later... I can now only pull one side of the bubber bands, if I load both sides it will automatically go off.......


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## RAB

I dont even trust mine w/ 2 bands. It just has such a *hairy trigger*. Got brave again yesterday w/ it and was in process of putting 2nd band on the hook and off it went. Back in shed until upgrade.Which i hope is soon. 8)


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## RAB

Any new update on when it will be released Rich? 8)


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## Mud Diver

Mine are intermittently not working (both of them). Can't wait for the new releases.


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## potshot

Mine works great. Never a problem with the release. I ordered a 2d winger, but I the distributor is waiting until the new ones come out before they ship. I wish they'd hurry--need it bad.


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## hxman

SO what's the story, is the new release complete?????? :roll:


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## cpayne

Got two new ones last weekend. Work great!


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## Troy Williams

cpayne said:


> Got two new ones last weekend. Work great!


 :?: Got two new what? Releases or wingers?


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## cpayne

We got two new releases, needed four, but the big shipment won't be in for a few more weeks. Used the new system yesterday and today for about 30 dogs both days and they worked flawlessly. They resemble the old box launcher style of release.

No slips or misfires......I was a little cautious with the old style as well as they would release will pulling the bands down. You guys hang in there, Richard is trying to make everything right and this new release should put some smiles back on the faces.

Chris Payne
RockErin Kennel
Stillwater, OK


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## hxman

Do you have any pics of the new releases??????


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## Kurt-MO

So how do you go about getting the new releases????


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## RAB

Kurt-MO said:


> So how do you go about getting the new releases????


 When can we get our new releases???? Can someone update me!! 8)


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## Mud Diver

I'm hearing 20 Sep


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## Gunners Up

*Gunners Up Uprade Release*

The new releases are on their way. 

One thing they never teach you in business school is everything takes twice as long and costs twice as much. The releases are in transit and confirmed but for now we are at the mercy of the freight lines. We have been told the week of the 20th by the freight lines.

We are updating the Gunners Up website and will have photos of the new release on there next week. You will also be able to go in and pre-order your upgrade then. There will be no charge for the upgrade, just a nominal charge for S/H.

We have production samples going out to a couple of our distributors and Pro Staff and hopefully they will post product reviews for you shortly. 

Thank you guys for your patience and continued support, no one wants these releases here more than I do! 

Good Luck and Good Training!

Richard Davis


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## Mud Diver

Thanks Rich!!!


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## Don Smith

Thanks, Rich. I can't wait.


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## Cray Stephenson

*Re: Gunners Up Uprade Release*



Gunners Up said:


> We have production samples going out to a couple of our distributors and Pro Staff and hopefully they will post product reviews for you shortly.


I received one today. I'll have it at CKHRA/Inducky Hunt test in Indiana this weekend if anyone wants to see it. It is a tried and true design and should be much better. Looks great, can't wait to use it.

Cray


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## Breck

OK Cray
So how good is it?

One thing I would like to see improved is the ability to use 22's instead of primers. The primers sound very faint beyond 50 yards and I think 22's would sound better especially out 300 yards.


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## Cray Stephenson

Breck said:


> OK Cray
> So how good is it?
> 
> One thing I would like to see improved is the ability to use 22's instead of primers. The primers sound very faint beyond 50 yards and I think 22's would sound better especially out 300 yards.


OK, I've used it and I want more! I made an operator error and loaded the eye bolt too far in and got a hang up on the first time I used it. Since then I've loaded it "lean" and had "0" problems. Seems quieter and more effecient. The hair trigger complaints are going to be a thing of the past. This release is a very time tested design and is very safe. The servo is going to make this unit much more reliable as well.

Can't wait until they are available!


Cray


Breck....sorry, didn't try .22s in it.


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