# Hillman DVD?



## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

I heard today that Bill Hillman is now offering a training DVD. Any idea of where to look, or any reviews on it?


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

http://www.findretrievers.com/services/training/


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## Topgun (Dec 1, 2005)

jeff t. said:


> http://www.findretrievers.com/services/training/


 
or

http://www.hawkeyemedia.net/


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

You're suppose to read/watch each chapter in a different state.;-) HPW (who likes my copy of "Training Retrievers" by Bill Hillman)


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

that comes with a hefty price tag!


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

The $64 question; is it worth the bucks?


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> The $64 question; is it worth the bucks?


No, Bob that's the $130 question. :lol:


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## Jon Couch (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles C. said:


> No, Bob that's the $130 question. :lol:


Only if you want a high point derby dog and an FC NAFC  (Referring to Cutter)


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## Jon Couch (Jan 2, 2008)

The one thing I liked about it is you get to see the progression of a single dog! IF you break it down that is $43.00 an hour for a 3 hr dvd. I'm in.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Duck Creek said:


> Only if you want a high point derby dog and an FC NAFC


If buying a training DVD would get me that I would buy 100 of them! 

FOM


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## Jon Couch (Jan 2, 2008)

FOM said:


> If buying a training DVD would get me that I would buy 100 of them!
> 
> FOM


The DVD won't due the work for you, but some insight to what a guy does to start a pup who has had that many high point derby dogs to his credit may warrant the $130.00 don't you think.
How many of us have spent the money on other training dvd's, seminars, ect. If I can learn one more thing to make my training that much more effective than $130.00 is a small price to pay. Just my .02


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Duck Creek said:


> The DVD won't do the work for you,


Helps to have a talented dog too...;-)


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## mouth plumber (May 10, 2005)

The chocolate dog in the training video is my dog "Hawkeyes Victory At Sea". He earned 15 derby points this year. Sorry, had to brag as we bred him from our own dogs.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Not saying the DVD wouldn't not be nice to add to my collection - but ask yourself who has the money to campaign dogs like him? Very few - I betcha if I could afford to entire two Derbies in a given weekend and run them both I'd make a pretty good run at the High Point Derby dog......just saying....

FOM


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## Jon Couch (Jan 2, 2008)

FOM said:


> Not saying the DVD wouldn't not be nice to add to my collection - but ask yourself who has the money to campaign dogs like him? Very few - I betcha if I could afford to entire two Derbies in a given weekend and run them both I'd make a pretty good run at the High Point Derby dog......just saying....
> 
> FOM


I agree FOM, but no matter how many derbies you enter you still have to place. From what I can tell latley that is getting harder and harder to do. I don't personaly know you, but from what I can tell you probably could make a run at it. There are alot of great young dogs out there. And with all of the programs available to the AM you are seeing more dogs being trained "at home" and being very competitive. All I am saying is that if you are new, or a seasoned veteran, I'm sure there is something in the video that we can take away that will make us better trainers. To me one small tidbit of info that I can take away is worth the $


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Duck Creek said:


> All I am saying is that if you are new, or a seasoned veteran, I'm sure there is something in the video that we can take away that will make us better trainers. To me one small tidbit of info that I can take away is worth the $


I agree with that too....got $140 I can have?


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## Jon Couch (Jan 2, 2008)

If you really need it I can make that happen!:bday:


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

So, is there anything different to other DVDs/videos, produced in the US?


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Define different....


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Formatting may well be different. I have noticed on ebay that some DVDs are listed as compatable with players sold here.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

FOM said:


> Define different....


O gosh, I have so many DVDs/videos. Lardy, Rorem/Carr, Rorem handling, etc etc etc.Every one I think that has ever been produced. Hey dusted off Mike Lardy's last night actually. He mentions that he does not confuse the issue by positive reinforcement, negative, compulsion avoidance. All the same, gee his use of all, is excellent. 

Anyway, just ordered the Hillman DVD through Paypal. Hope the S & H, covers mail to Australia, otherwise DVD will take months to reach our shores.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> Formatting may well be different. I have noticed on ebay that some DVDs are listed as compatable with players sold here.


Thanks Bob, never experienced any problems in the past.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

FOM said:


> Define different....


The use of praise. One FF DVD confuses me no end. The trainer is praising as the dog is munching on the article. No wonder the dog looks confuses and suffers for it later on.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Aussie said:


> O gosh, I have so many DVDs/videos. Lardy, Rorem/Carr, Rorem handling, etc etc etc.Every one I think that has ever been produced. Hey dusted off Mike Lardy's last night actually. He mentions that he does not confuse the issue by positive reinforcement, negative, compulsion avoidance. All the same, gee his use of all, is excellent.
> 
> Anyway, just ordered the Hillman DVD through Paypal. Hope the S & H, covers mail to Australia, otherwise DVD will take months to reach our shores.


Well let us know what you think....


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

I heard that the White Knight makes a cameo appearance in the video. HPW


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

HarryWilliams said:


> You're suppose to read/watch each chapter in a different state.;-) HPW


Ummm, aren't you supposed to be at the laundrymat washing diapers????


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

I like the idea enough to put it on the Christmas list. If Santa doesn't hook me up, I might pick it up on my own.

I particularly like this part:


> This 3 hr DVD shows Bill's entire puppy training process. There are no off-camera extra training sessions. Bills complete process is shown


If he can train a derby winner in 3 hours, it is worth watching. I figure I could watch it and even with my relative lack of skill, I could do it in a day or two. That is a bargain at twice the price!


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

When it comes and you people that have ordered it have watched it would you review it here or in the product review forum?

I'm curious what he considers a puppy, from birth to what age? Does it end at 6 months when you are free to start cc and ff or does he cover puppyhood from birth 'til he considers it derby ready? Or does he define it until the dog is out of the derby?

I am absolutely sure I'd learn from 3 hours of watching Bill Hillman train.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2008)

Howard N said:


> I'm curious what he considers a puppy, from birth to what age? Does it end at 6 months when you are free to start cc and ff or does he cover puppyhood from birth 'til he considers it derby ready? Or does he define it until the dog is out of the derby?


That's what I was wondering as well.


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> The $64 question; is it worth the bucks?


Always a good question, but especially these days. Haven't you'all been surprised at those who spend $60 every weekend all summer for years and barely get a green BUT won't buy the $60 (or more) things that could make the difference? What false economy-skip a trial or two if you can't afford it otherwise! I figure if I can get one tip out of a DVD that wins me an Open, it's worth a grand or two!

In this case, I'm sure looking to get a copy and doing a critical review of it as well as picking up some things that just might make the difference.

Cheers


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Dennis are you set up to accept subscriptions on line for "Online" yet?


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> Dennis are you set up to accept subscriptions on line for "Online" yet?


Nope! Been too busy with mail, fax, phone, voicemail and e-mails. Sorry 'bout that but you know how much better you appreciate the things that you have to work for!

Cheers


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## wayne anderson (Oct 16, 2007)

Anyone remember when the first field trial training video/dvd was produced? Sure have been a ton of them done since then!


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

First one I knew about was the Cappes Curtis tapes put out by a group in Minnesota to improve the Benton Retriever Grounds being developed north of the Twin Cities.

Cappes died in 1990 so the tapes probably came out in 1989 or so. The setups are good, the basics done by Bruce Curtis are wonderful. The collar use would be considered over the top today.


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## oakwood (Mar 29, 2005)

Buzz said:


> Helps to have a talented dog too...;-)




Oh thats the secret! Why you been holding out on me?


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## bfarmer (Aug 6, 2006)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> Always a good question, but especially these days. Haven't you'all been surprised at those who spend $60 every weekend all summer for years and barely get a green BUT won't buy the $60 (or more) things that could make the difference? What false economy-skip a trial or two if you can't afford it otherwise! I figure if I can get one tip out of a DVD that wins me an Open, it's worth a grand or two!
> 
> In this case, I'm sure looking to get a copy and doing a critical review of it as well as picking up some things that just might make the difference.
> 
> Cheers


Very well said. I ordered mine! If I can learn just one or two tips on how to develop better puppies it would be worth every penny. Bill Hillmann has raised and developed more High Point Derby dogs than anyone in history. Not to mention FC's, AFC's, and now a NAFC! I'm sure I will learn alot from this DVD based on his knowledge and accomplishments. I can't wait to recieve it!
Bobby


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## Kenmc (Apr 11, 2005)

Doesn't one of you know the Hillmans well enough to find out what age "puppy" it covers? Like maybe the guy that owns the puppy in the video. 
It seems that to be of any worth it would have to be training all the way to being prepared to run a derby and not just a puppy socialization? ? ?


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## mouth plumber (May 10, 2005)

The puppy went to Bill on day 49. I am not sure when he quit filming the video.


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## mouth plumber (May 10, 2005)

The film went all the way to when Nick Jr. started the derby. I just don't remember when he stopped filming. Can't wait to get my copy!


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## mouth plumber (May 10, 2005)

Correction, the film goes up to just over 6mo. He ran his first derby at 9mo.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

oakwood said:


> Oh thats the secret! Why you been holding out on me?



Brad, anything I can do to help.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

Duck Creek said:


> Only if you want a high point derby dog and an FC NAFC  (Referring to Cutter)


It probably won't help most us. We've watched the Carr/Rorem and Lardy videos for how many hours? Most of us haven't done the high point derby dog or national champion thing. 

Maybe I need to play them backwards at high speed to get the real messages??

Tom


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## Loren Crannell (Apr 12, 2008)

mouth plumber said:


> Correction, the film goes up to just over 6mo. He ran his first derby at 9mo.


That must have been exciting to see your dog run a derby so young. I have a question, have you ever felt that concentrating on the derby sacraficed some time toward Qualifying and the bigger shows?

For the record, I just order my DVD, but my goals for my dogs are to have great foundations so they can compete at the qualiying level. Derby's are icing on top of the cake if they run. Just curious if your dog was now running Qualifying stakes and how he was doing.

And I mean no disrespecect to your dog or his training. 

Loren


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## mouth plumber (May 10, 2005)

His first derby was a "Let's see where he is at" type of run. He took a 4th just after he turned 12 mo. He started preparing for quals at 22 mo. and I am hoping to see him get qualified this winter or spring. He ran his first and only qual in Oct. at 24mo. and got to the 3rd series.


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Howard N said:


> First one I knew about was the Cappes Curtis tapes put out by a group in Minnesota to improve the Benton Retriever Grounds being developed north of the Twin Cities.
> 
> Cappes died in 1990 so the tapes probably came out in 1989 or so. The setups are good, the basics done by Bruce Curtis are wonderful. The collar use would be considered over the top today.


Howard,

I agree. But, if the production quality were better, those videos may still be a standard today, even with the e-collar application. Very good content.

Evan


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## Speed_Boat (Dec 11, 2008)

I must have been one of the first to order the video. I watched it immediately. It's absolutely fantastic!! It's so unlike the other training seminar videos that I have struggled through. I'll definitely watch this DVD more than once.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Howard N said:


> When it comes and you people that have ordered it have watched it would you review it here or in the product review forum?
> 
> I'm curious what he considers a puppy, from birth to what age? Does it end at 6 months when you are free to start cc and ff or does he cover puppyhood from birth 'til he considers it derby ready? Or does he define it until the dog is out of the derby?
> 
> I am absolutely sure I'd learn from 3 hours of watching Bill Hillman train.


Howard, This weekend, I specifically asked Bill how far the video covers. He said it goes up through collar conditioning, including use of collar in FF. It doesn't cover pile work or anything like that.

He stated that it conditions pups from a very young age to acclimate them to training/trialing environment; and prepare them to be able to run multiple derbies without coming apart at the seams


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## Doug Main (Mar 26, 2003)

mjh345 said:


> He stated that it conditions pups from a very young age to acclimate them to training/trialing environment; *and prepare them to be able to run multiple derbies without coming apart at the seams*


That is one of the things that I have been most impressed with Hillman's derby dogs. ;-)


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Speed_Boat said:


> I must have been one of the first to order the video. I watched it immediately. It's absolutely fantastic!! It's so unlike the other training seminar videos that I have struggled through. I'll definitely watch this DVD more than once.


So, description please. Two thousand words or less might do LOL.


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## ballplayer (Nov 25, 2008)

I've watched the Hillman DVD once now and have started through it again. Why hasn't anyone done this before? It's a day-by-day guide with no holes left in the training regimen. If there was ever a bomb-proof, idiot-proof training aid, this is it. It's a huge advance in puppy training, the way I see it.


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

I ordered the video from Hawkeye Media on Monday and my copy just arrived last night (Wednesday) and I live half way across the country from the Hillmans. So Aussie, there is hope for you!

I've only had the opportunity to view the first 3 days, but I like what I'm seeing so far. The only thing the early training sessions consisted of were teaching the pup to chase something (one of those air dog tennis ball bumpers), walk on a rope/lead and sit. Everything is done with positive encouragement and very little if any correction (maybe a slight tug on the lead for a sit). He also intoduces distractions (a cat) and begins to move around to encourage a solid sit stay.

The training session was taped and then Bill overlaid the audio in the editing process. The video pretty much jumps right into Day 1 with no introduction of the puppy or how old he is (not necessary, but would be nice to know). He appears to be somewhere between 2 and 4 months old.

The video says it covers training from Day 1 through Day 28. From other posts, it sounds like there may be more at the end to get the pup up to Derby level, but the focus is definitley on pre-basics and building a good relationship with the pup.


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## Speed_Boat (Dec 11, 2008)

I don't remember which day exactly, but there is an introduction of the puppy. Bill tells his name and age, which I believe to be 10 weeks at the time.

The video has much more information in it than "pre-basics and building a relationship." You will get to it. The video is a gradual progression that coincides with the progression of the pup's training.

There's too much info to retain, you'll have to watch it more than once.


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

Okay... I've watched up through Day 21 now and the progression of the pup is amazing. Enthusiasm, obedience (heel on both sides, sit, here), beginning of CC, hold, water, steadiness, beginning doubles, beginning sight blinds all mixed in with fun exciting retrieves and lots of positive feedback. 

This is the way training a puppy SHOULD be done. Seen way too many trainers break out the stick or other harsh methods on a puppy... this works so much better. I particularly like Bill's comment: "Don't be mean to a puppy, it just makes you look like an idiot."

Can't wait to finish it and go back through in detail.


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## blind ambition (Oct 8, 2006)

I ordered my copy as soon as this topic was first posted, it still isn't here...must be stuck in customs. I couldn't believe my luck when I heard of this, as I had only just brought two pups home, if this is half as good as some of the reviews suggest, it will be worth every penny and the wait!


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

All-Out said:


> So Aussie, there is hope for you!



Arrived today. Great postal service, thankyou Mrs H.


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## marcj33 (Nov 14, 2008)

just got done with the dvd and it is exceptional. the sessions are short, easy to see and hear whats going on and easy to apply on your own. one of the many benefits of the day to day method is that you can see te progression in the dog, the consistency in the trainer and the training and how hillmann adds to each session. I also liked the demeanor of hillmann with the dog and in his talk overs..there is a calmness and consistency that i have to believe is a big part of his success with the dog.

all in all its a pretty creative and revealing look into training that can be applied to "real life" immediately.

FYI...im looking at the credits right now and it says:

nick's age on day one: 11 weeks
nick's age on day 28: 22 weeks [5 1/2 months]
date of filming 12-30-06 thru 3-15-07

so its 28 days of training that took place over 11 weeks of calendar time.

Marc


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## Don Smith (Mar 23, 2004)

Just got the DVD as a Christmas present!!! Whoohoo!!! I know what I'm doing tonight.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Got the video for Christmas and watched it. I was looking through the contents and was very surprised at some of the stuff--particularly how early collar conditioning comes into things.

As someone mentioned, the first few days were slow, but it was very informative after that. Very different in both the style (the session by session thing) and the progression from others I have seen. 

I am not so bold to critique the training methods of someone who is obviously so successful at what they do, but I will say that I found the video extremely thought provoking and picked up things that I would definitely use with a young pup in the future. I would not hesitate to send a pup of my own to him for training.

Generally, I think this is a must have for both beginners and experienced trainers.


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## Bobby Lindsay (Jan 10, 2004)

marcj33 said:


> FYI...im looking at the credits right now and it says:
> 
> nick's age on day one: 11 weeks
> nick's age on day 28: 22 weeks [5 1/2 months]
> ...



I am on day 16, and I was thinking "Wow, I would like to have my pup that steady, doing doubles, sight blinds and holding after only two weeks." I was also thinking the pup was growing pretty fast. Maybe, it should have been explained that a day maybe anywhere from one day to a week or so. 

I'm just speculating here. 

I’m quite impressed with his program, and ready to incorporate his methods on my new pup. (8weeks)

Two thumbs up


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

I, too noticed the apparent fast growth of "Nick" during the "28 days" of training and also took note of the 11 week time span in the credits. Since the video claims that "no training was done with this pup outside of what you see..." I have to wonder if the pup had 3 or 4 days off between training sessions or if Bill simply did the same stuff for several days (eg. day 1 excercises for 3 or 4 days). Inquiring minds want to know....

All in all, a great video. I'll second the compliment on Bill's training demeanor. The positive and encouraging methods seem to build a very solid and confident foundation in a pup.


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## Don Smith (Mar 23, 2004)

All-Out said:


> All in all, a great video. I'll second the compliment on Bill's training demeanor. The positive and encouraging methods seem to build a very solid and confident foundation in a pup.


I agree completely. Everything is happy for the pup. Bill comments that to Nick, every day is the best day of his life. His comment on one day that "[Nick] loves me and I love him" pretty well sums up his approach and his success demonstrates the effectiveness of his methods. I know what I'm going to be doing with the one I keep out of this upcoming litter.


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## maryhill (Oct 9, 2005)

Thank you for your compliments on our DVD. What we did was to train Nick two or three days per week, as ALL of his training sessions are on the DVD, nothing left out.
The days between sessions he went on long walks and spent time as a family dog.
There was no training done on these days between sessions. Hope this clarifies
the timeline.


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## ballplayer (Nov 25, 2008)

Now that I've watched this DVD two-and-a-half times, I can see what a solid foundation for a puppy really ought to be. If more puppies were started with this kind of care and special handling, fewer youngsters would end up as field trial failures or wash-outs.


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Is the pup used for the video an "average" FT prospect with normal progression?


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

maryhill said:


> The days between sessions he went on long walks and spent time as a family dog.


Non formal training?


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## doubledown (Dec 28, 2008)

Great DVD so far. I've watched the first 14 days and love the linear format. Really helping this newbie to understand. Worth the money to me.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

does bill discuss that running alot more trials than anyone else will increase your chances of more points.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

kip said:


> does bill discuss that running alot more trials than anyone else will increase your chances of more points.


Of course, the more Derbies a great marking dog runs, the more points it will accumulate. But first of all, it has to be a great marker to get those 5 pt. wins to obtain the higher points.

We all know chasing Derby points is an expensive game few can afford to play even with a great marking dog. My hat is off to those who have that great marking dog and who can afford to chase those points.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

helencalif said:


> Of course, the more Derbies a great marking dog runs, the more points it will accumulate. But first of all, it has to be a great marker to get those 5 pt. wins to obtain the higher points.
> 
> We all know chasing Derby points is an expensive game few can afford to play even with a great marking dog. My hat is off to those who have that great marking dog and who can afford to chase those points.


 there are alot of great marking dogs who i believe are better than the highpoint dogs on the list. look for the ones that make the list or have a better than 2 point per trial on a very few starts.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

i have more respect for the ones who chase that high point cup for putting up with all that poor judging.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

kip said:


> there are alot of great marking dogs who i believe are better than the highpoint dogs on the list. look for the ones that make the list or have a better than 2 point per trial on a very few starts.


I got one that has 2.5/start with 15 points. I don't believe I'll trade her.;-)


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## Bobby Lindsay (Jan 10, 2004)

it appears that 2010 is going to be a really tough year in the derby


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

I ordered mine Sunday, hope to see mine soon!


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## River Hill (Oct 21, 2008)

maryhill said:


> Thank you for your compliments on our DVD. What we did was to train Nick two or three days per week, as ALL of his training sessions are on the DVD, nothing left out.
> The days between sessions he went on long walks and spent time as a family dog.
> There was no training done on these days between sessions. Hope this clarifies
> the timeline.


So do you guys think it is better to only train a puppy two or three days a week vs everyday or was it done this way for video production?


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## ultimategundog (Mar 18, 2009)

Is it in line with Mike stewart the wild rose way
I amtrying to decide between Mike lairdy DVD & Bill Hillman


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

ultimategundog said:


> Is it in line with Mike stewart the wild rose way
> I amtrying to decide between Mike lairdy DVD & Bill Hillman


Neither Lardy or Hillman are anything like Stewart. End of story!


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## Novemberwitch (Mar 7, 2006)

I have watched mine 3 times now! I think it is great. Makes me want to go out and get a new pup, just so I can start them right!!! Dog obviously loves every minute of what is happening on the video. I would rank this as a must have.


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## Archery1973 (Jan 15, 2010)

Watched it 3 times now. It's great.


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

Iv'e really enjoyed the video, I don't see how any one could go wrong starting a puppy with this program and then transitioning into any of the other programs. I have a 7 monthe old pup that I started with this DVD, it was really fun for the pup and myself, we basically did "something" almost everyday starting around 9 weeks. I feel he is farther along at 7 monthes than any puppy I have had, very obediant and has a great attitude. 

The pup befor him was a wild child and I believe Bodey would have benifitted from a program like this, teaching steadyness at a young age rather than holding him back on marks and then trying to steady him latter.

Iv'e got another one comming in a couple weeks so we will see if it was a fluke..


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Love the DVD. I am starting my young pup this way also then transitioning into basics. I think it probably is best to only train the pup a few days each week as opposed to everyday. At that age they are learning so much about life in general that it makes sense to balance home training and field training.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Just ordered mine. My current library includes:
Mike Lardy, TRT 2d
Mike Lardy, ecollar conditioning
Mike Lardy, TRM
Dennis Voight, Training Alone
Jackie Merkins, Sound Beginnings (gave to my son)
Plus some older stuff on video tape

You can't have enough information. After so many years training, I am still learning and I'm 70 and have trained hundreds of dog.


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## Goosetree (Dec 12, 2010)

Just ordered mine. I pick up my pup next weekend.


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