# Field Bred English Cocker Spaniels



## Randy Wilson (Mar 1, 2003)

Does anyone have experience with these little guys?

Do the principles of retriever training as it relates to labs still apply?

Does anyone have experience with Covey Flush Kennel in GA?

Thanks

Randy


----------



## jollycurl (Mar 4, 2008)

You might want to contact Bob Diehl up in Wisconsin. Bob is an HT judge for both retrievers and spaniels. He breeds and runs Irish Water Spaniels and English Cocker Spaniels. He also runs Spaniel field trials. You can look up his contact information on the AKC website or contact me privately.


----------



## mattm337 (May 17, 2010)

He's a long way from MS, but Tom Ness of Oahe Kennels has a good reputation in the spaniel world. He's done quite well in spaniel FTs.

http://www.oahekennels.com

Many argue that spaniels (I have a Boykin) should be trained completely differently than labs, but there have been very successful amateurs in the Boykin world who have used "retriever" methods with no problems. Personally, with my particular dog, I've used a middle ground, adapting as I've gotten better reading the dog. If you're interested, PM me and I can point out some resources for spaniels I've found useful.


----------



## jollycurl (Mar 4, 2008)

I mentioned Bob as a resource because he has trained in both worlds, Retrievers and Spaniels.


----------



## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

Actually, so has Tom Ness for that matter. He’s a very impressive dog man. 

Closer to the OP though is Mark Hairfield (Southaven Kennels ) in Eupora, MS. Mark trains Labs & Springers but he also knows cockers & can steer you right.

As to your question “ Do the principles of retriever training as it relates to labs still apply?” My opinion is that you’ll need to modify your training significantly or you’ll sour his attitude. Lot’s fewer repetitions per session, more variety, more birds (alive & dead), more finesse w/ corrections, etc. 

Labs are unique in their resilience.


----------



## Dave_Quindt (Oct 22, 2003)

Lots of cocker spaniel info available here:
http://fieldcockers.com/index.html

FYI,
Dave


----------



## Dick Sheldon (Jul 14, 2006)

Tomn Ness force fetched my first Lab for me. Did a great job and is a real knowledgable dog guy (spaniels and labs).


----------



## Randy Wilson (Mar 1, 2003)

Thanks for the input! Sounds like I got a bit more research to do before the pup arrives.

Randy


----------



## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Talk to John Beaman @ Wynfield Plantation in Albany, GA. He trains their dogs and works with labs and cockers. I know they don't necessarily think/mature the same way.


----------



## Chehawkennels1 (Jan 26, 2013)

This breed is far more sensitive than most labs...takes a kid glove trainer to train one correctly. I own a Master Hunter Lab and have trained several Cockers...different Animal! I know Christopher very well at Covey Flush and he raises quality field bred stock! Pressure is a hairy subject with this breed and again it depends how far you want to go in your training. UKC hunt test worked well for our last pup. My current female will never be big enough to handle big ducks!


----------



## elingler (Oct 7, 2009)

I have seen a couple run at local upland trials they are a pretty neat dog for upland. My question is how do you know when they get birdie there tail is always going.


----------



## Sammy1 (Jan 7, 2008)

Tom Ness is a great trainer. Have sought his advice several times on pup I bought from him after having several springers. A very knowledgable dog man for labs and spaniels. These dogs are best trained with lots of repetition, attrition, teaching, ropes, leashes, and loads and loads of affection and attentiveness. They turn out to be the best upland bird dog you could ask for. Get into places that even springers won't go, and once you have them under control ( which can take some doing) they are magnificent dogs. They are quite soft with A LOT OF COURAGE. Not for a hard handed trainer at all. Take your time and TEACH and you will be fine. Good luck!!!!!!!


----------



## Brian Skibicki (Feb 23, 2008)

bjoiner said:


> Talk to John Beaman @ Wynfield Plantation in Albany, GA. He trains their dogs and works with labs and cockers. I know they don't necessarily think/mature the same way.


I own an English Cocker and Bubba's exactly right they don't think nor do they mature the same as any lab I have ever known. I don't know John Beaman but if he works with the folks at Wynfield then I would tell you that you are definitely being pointed in the right direction.


----------



## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Chehawkennels1 said:


> My current female will never be big enough to handle big ducks!


Only if you don't think she can - can't be a whole lot of difference, in heart - or size - 










between a 19-20 pound cocker and a 23-pound Boykin.

MG


----------



## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

elingler said:


> My question is how do you know when they get birdie there tail is always going.


That's a good question about all spaniels. Their tails usually only stop when they're using them for a kickstand.










And some got a lot more kickstand to work with than others...










MG


----------



## Molly99 (Aug 23, 2004)

> My current female will never be big enough to handle big ducks!


This is my smallest cocker. She weighs about 22lb. She handles duck with ease 










Here she is making light work of a cock pheasant 









She can handle a small goose too, though she tends to drag rather than carry them.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a gundog with more heart than a field bred English Cocker. They simply refuse to accept that they are small.  

Pippa


----------



## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

That's not Secret, is it Pippa? My new little girl, Ninja, is currently @ 18 lbs at 5months old. She will pick up and carry any/everything that she can find laying around. Tons of go!!!


----------



## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

I love watching the FB English Cockers run in HRC tests.

Those are some high powered little devils!


----------



## Molly99 (Aug 23, 2004)

*Cockers*



firehouselabs said:


> That's not Secret, is it Pippa? My new little girl, Ninja, is currently @ 18 lbs at 5months old. She will pick up and carry any/everything that she can find laying around. Tons of go!!!


Her name's 'Meg' - Good luck with your new pup, lots of fun ahead 

Pippa


----------



## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

My retriever's have my respect, but my Spaniel's have my hart.

Spaniel's are not as hard headed as the retriever, but can be as independent. I use a lot of the same technique as with the retrievers and put them through the same program for their retrieving, but they are different. it's the how and when that can be tricky.


----------



## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

I’ve been around some really nice cockers, both in the field & in the house. They are wonderfully affectionate & as others have claimed, they really punch above their weight as a gundog. 

I think they appeal to a certain personality type that appreciates their mischievous nature & insistence on doing things a certain way. It’s a mistake for a Lab guy to watch them retrieve for example & think, “Well, I could put that dog through Lardy’s program & fix that up.” They really don’t seem to grasp concepts the way a Lab does and collar pressure tends to cause either problems w/ their flush or their mouth.

That’s not to say they aren’t good retrievers in their own way. Just a couple weeks ago, I was shooting for a friend’s dog when she broke at the shot. He stopped her, scruffed her back to the spot of the infraction, told her to “leave it” & we hunted on. She hunted nicely & flushed & retrieved 2 more birds over the next 100 yds or so & I’d pretty much forgotten about the pigeon we’d left in the field when my friend told her to “fetch it” w/ a cavalier wave of his hand.

She ran straight back to the fall, through 3 ft. cover all the way & pinned the retrieve. I don’t if that’s a practical skill to train for but I was certainly impressed w/ her memory.

All that being said, Cocker owners might be the most breed blind people in the gundog world. They really do use their dogs for ducks & pheasants & they will insist they are better than any Lab or Springer they’ve seen. The reality is (IMHO), the little dogs are like a 28 ga. shotgun; you’ll be amazed the first time you hunt w/ one that something so small can be so effective. That doesn’t mean it would be my 1st choice however for game other than what they were bred for (grouse & woodcock), but I certainly wouldn’t feel too under gunned/dogged if that’s all I had to hunt ducks & pheasants.


----------



## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Yup! It takes a 'different' kind of handling!..They are entertaining!..But they are also very rewarding! when you get them right.
Beware!..They do have their 'individual' wee traits? haha ..Enjoy. ps (I used to have long hair!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P-XlqtJsAs


----------



## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Robt., you mean, like spaniel long hair










or your semi-Scots' avatar Rod Stewart long hair - or are they one and same?










MG


----------



## Molly99 (Aug 23, 2004)

> they will insist they are better than any Lab or Springer they’ve seen. The reality is (IMHO), the little dogs are like a 28 ga. shotgun; you’ll be amazed the first time you hunt w/ one that something so small can be so effective. That doesn’t mean it would be my 1st choice however for game other than what they were bred for (grouse & woodcock), but I certainly wouldn’t feel too under gunned/dogged if that’s all I had to hunt ducks & pheasants.


I quite like this analogy. And there can be dangers to expecting too much of such small dogs. With the melting snow and heavy rain, some of the streams on our shoot grounds have become swollen and very fast flowing. In situations like these, there are definite advantages to using a more powerful dog, and yesterday I used a labrador to do the bulk of the work. I have seen cockers used in situations like this where they are at risk of being swept away. Better to admit that the little dog has its limitations. 
Pippa


----------



## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

Gene Putnam, Rivers Turn Kennel in Orangeburg, SC, trained the best ECS I've ever seen (dog named Traveler). Traveler got a HRC Upland Hunter and a Seasoned title along with an AKC Spaniel Master Hunter before he was tragically killed in an accident. I believe he was 3 years old. To my knowledge, he was trained in non-slip retriever training.


----------



## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

crackerd said:


> Robt., you mean, like spaniel long hair
> or your semi-Scots' avatar Rod Stewart long hair - or are they one and same?
> MG


Nah! I mean .....I'm now Bald with pulling the hair out my head with the wee buggers over the years .
Many are used as non slip retrievers over here, and they do an admiral job in the shooting field ,but as for 'Competition retrieving', It's Horses for courses.
I've also never really found out what advantage they have over a 'Springer' ! other than they weigh less.
RJ


----------

