# Pattern Blind/Cold Blind TRANSITION



## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

*Pattern Blind/Cold Blind TRANSITION*

Questions pop up fairly often about issues during this period. Lately I've seen and received enough to warrant some clarity on its central aspects. Since we're not all seasoned veteran trainers here it might be valuable to discuss this topic. 

At a point when our dogs have enough basic skills we begin running what are commonly called “pattern blinds”; pre-identified, or visually marked destinations that are not marked falls. These exercises help the trainer to introduce some basic functions to a developing dog that will assist in running real blinds, AKA “cold blinds”. There is often some confusion about the differences between them, and how to transition from one to the other.

By including force to pile, AKA ‘FTP’, in our force fetch program we educate our dogs not only to go when sent, but to perform all the essentials of the fully-trained retrieve. “Go, fetch, come” are critically important, and the force fetch course sets this function up in a well-structured and efficient form including ‘finish’; the actual coming to heel to sit and deliver on command.

Once those essential functions are intact we begin to stretch the distance to the pile, and ad the elements of force en route, force from the front sit position/Back cast, etc. As all that develops together it continues to around 100 yards, and other piles can be identified in a ‘pattern’. That is customarily 3 piles 90 degrees apart in what is known as a 3-leg pattern, from which came the name “pattern blind”. They are not cold blinds because the dog is taught the destinations ahead of time.

The questions largely revolve around the transition from these known destinations (piles/pattern blinds) to real blinds – ‘cold blinds’. One such question commonly asked is when to begin this transition. When your dog will do the following – not just sometimes, not just pretty well, but with great reliability and confidence:

1.	Obey fundamental obedience commands, such as heel, sit, here, and will turn right and left at the heel position.
2.	Is competent and polished in all phases of force fetch, up to and including FTP.
3.	Has been thoroughly educated to en route forcing.

During this same period of time most programs guide the trainer to be working on basic handling skills so the pattern blinds progress as handling skills develop. I recommend starting pattern blinds short, and gradually teach more of them in new places at only slightly longer distances as long as the dog is running them efficiently and with confidence. But, having patiently and thoroughly taught these essential functions, and having extended the length of your PBs to around 100 yards, all that should keep you from advancing to cold blinds is the completion of Land T work. Weather permitting, it would also be appropriate to have finished water force & swim-by.

The actual transition is a topic of its own.

Evan


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

I've posted my pattern field process numerous times. Interesting that this transition seems to generate frequent threads on boards. There are dozens on RTF alone. One of the questions that I get asked a lot is "do you really run such long blinds on the pattern field?" Yes I do. I think this varies from your process Evan although from what I can see that may be about the only difference. I once broke down each day but can't seem to find it now. In essence during the teaching of the pattern it goes somewhat like this.

Day 1 - First leg. Put 5-8 bumpers at destination, back dog up 30 or so yards, send him to pile. Backup to 60 send him. Handle as necessary. Backup to 80, send him etc. Should typically get to the long distance by end of session

Day 2 - 3 bumpers at leg 1, 5-8 leg 2. Teach leg 2, run leg 1

Day 3 - 2 Bumpers at legs 1/2. After teaching leg 3 run the other two legs

Day 4 - Repeat process to teach leg 4, run other legs

Days 5-10 2 bumpers at each leg, randomly run the other legs, handing as necessary. 

I like running the longer legs because it results in more handling opportunities and it gets the dogs thinking go long right from the start. 

/Paul





Gun_Dog2002 said:


> I typically do a session every day with the dog. This is a teaching drill where skills are taught through repetition. These dogs can handle at least one session a day and in my experience they make the most progress by consistent sessions daily for 7-10 days. If by day 10 I'm seeing a 80% success rate in the handling portion and good response to the back command with periodic force I move to pattern field where we take the taught skills and put them into a controlled field situation.
> 
> My pattern fields is flat, short grass and mostly featureless. The blinds have good separation and vary in length. (see diagram) I teach 1 leg each day, and repeat the other legs as I go along. By day 4 the dog is picking up 2 bumpers at each leg. They are rough at first, but like T pattern this is teaching. Not a lot of corrections for casting mistakes, use attrition. Don't worry if they line them, again this is about working with you has a handler and taking the casts. Again I run these for 7-10 days. Typically after this the dog is working with me well enough to move to true cold blinds, which in line with the program does not have a lot of casting corrections, but mostly attrition.
> 
> ...


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## Swampbilly (May 25, 2010)

Why do some trainers skip Pattern Blinds!!??


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

I do about like Paul but with only 3 legs and about 150 yrds gets me what I need.


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## blake_mhoona (Mar 19, 2012)

when i did mine a couple months ago i did alot like you paul. i only had 3 legs though. left leg was 275, right was 250, and middle was 325. talk about a wore out dog. but i do think it makes a difference to stretch them out so they can get used to carrying a line for awhile.


after days 5-10 i started the PB with diversions altogether prolly took a good 3-4 weeks.


question do you find it useful to run pattern blinds on water? on land casts and lines are usually good to great with my dog. in water casting is not so great. especially at distances of more than 100 or so yards


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Well, I most of the time don't run pattern blinds like this on water. It sometimes depends on the time of year, temperature concerns, but for the most part i'll get the dog doing pattern field, typically after a couple of weeks move to simple cold land blinds and get them used to running on land. I like pattern blinds because not only is it a good transition from T work, it also re-build momentum a dog may have lost on the T field. Some dogs get a bad attitude on T field and this helps get them out of that "funk." Once the light bulb goes off on land regarding understanding cold blinds, I'll go do water force, water T, swimby on the pond and start running cold blinds on water. You do have to look at the conditioning of the dog and adjust the length and repetition on patter field. I often gets dogs in before hunting season for "tune up" and conditioning so may have to adjust while they lose their "summer fat." 

/Paul


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Swampbilly said:


> Why do some trainers skip Pattern Blinds!!??


I don't do pattern blinds. I've decided that my time is better spent on easyish multiple cold blinds. It always seemed like there was a transition to cold blinds whether they had had pattern blinds or not. Also, it seemed easier, less of a fight, to get them past shorter old blinds when sending for longer blinds.

YMMV


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

I start 3 stake then go to 5, start on land (straight to the stake, then casting drills off of the stake), I want the fight of get pass the stakes, set them up for poison birds etc. later. We do move the stake drills to water, but usually in a place where a dog can learn proper water & land entries and exits, 1 (take mostly land hit little water), 2 (take land hit water, take point, hit water), 3 (take all water swim channel btw the land), 4 (hit large corner of water take big land, then hit little water), then 5 the hardest, after you've done all that water (run edge of the pond and take all land). Basically the stakes let them know where they're going so we can focus on the proper way to get there.


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Swampbilly said:


> Why do some trainers skip Pattern Blinds!!??


A couple reasons. One is simply that many pros (and some amateurs) find themselves constantly seeking to save time with a load of dogs. But when you have 20-30, or more years of experience you can get around the use of time spent on patterns, and read your dog's way along. I don't care for it personally, but it's viable. It's certainly not because there is nothing to gain from a modest number of pattern blinds. I progress in a very similar manner to /Paul.

Evan


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## Doug Main (Mar 26, 2003)

Howard N said:


> I don't do pattern blinds. I've decided that my time is better spent on easyish multiple cold blinds. It always seemed like there was a transition to cold blinds whether they had had pattern blinds or not. Also, it seemed easier, less of a fight, to get them past shorter old blinds when sending for longer blinds.
> 
> YMMV


Ditto what Howard said. 

Plus, the 1st couple dogs that I tried running pattern blinds with thought it was ok to go back to old falls, after I ran pattern blinds.


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

To add some perspective, I think you'll find very few pros who are opposed to pattern blinds, even among those who don't run them. Kind of speaks well for them, doesn't it? Just don't lose track of knowing when it's time to move on from them. 

Evan


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## yellow machine (Dec 7, 2005)

At a point when our dogs have enough basic skills we begin running what are commonly called “pattern blinds”; pre-identified, or visually marked destinations that are not marked falls.\

Evan do you pre-identify or visually mark on your pattern blinds if you do them?


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

I do run pattern blinds, and I pre-identify them with a tossed bumper into each pile the first time or two I run them, much like Paul described. I do not put visible markers at them at all. The piles are set with white bumpers, and are on open ground, so the dogs can see them as they approach. But if one of my dogs can't manage to return to a pre-identified pile without something white to run toward I've done a poor job of forcing, and will step back to finish the job.

For the record, that has never happened.

Evan


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## yellow machine (Dec 7, 2005)

I have found this thread very imformative and has given me good perspective on how to proceed. Although our terminology on pattern blinds is different training methods are the same. I came across this you-tube video that I thought seemed like a good drill for starting out on PB. Maybe this is where I went wrong with the bucket thing is this guy a kook?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmKFI5CypkQ


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

I wouldn't say he's a kook. He's doing a nice job with a very old, pretty out dated drill. "Baseball" has evolved, much like the rest of retriever training has over the past 3-4 decades. In most modern programs we begin teaching the 3 basic casts (Back, right Over, left Over) with a drill called "3-handed casting". It's done at very close range, and on a rope. Very simple, and easy for the dogs to succeed. It advances to Mini-T. There are variations on distance, but mine is the same as 3HC - again for simplicity. It advances from there to full scale land T work with a Back pile at 100 yards.










Single T










3-handed casting/Mini-T

Just so you know what I'm speaking of here. PM or email me and I'll link you to a video clip of these in action.

Evan


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Then, of course, there is Double T. This diagram isn't proportioned as I run it, but it's close.










Evan


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> "*Baseball*" has evolved, much like the rest of retriever training has over the past 3-4 decades. In most modern programs we begin teaching the 3 basic casts (Back, right Over, left Over) with a drill called "3-handed casting".


I'm old, I never evolved to calling it 3-handed casting. Same drill, different name. 

I don't use buckets.

James Lamb Free regards,


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Howard N said:


> I'm old, I never evolved to calling it 3-handed casting. Same drill, different name.


kinda'. 

Baseball; distances measured in yards, no rope.
3-handed casting/Mini-T; distances measured in feet, rope.

Personal preferences, of course.

Evan


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## FieldLab (Aug 5, 2011)

Would it make sence to go back to pattern
Blinds to help your dog carry his line farther ?


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

You mean with a dog that has already transitioned to cold blinds? No, not really. There are better ways.

Evan


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## FieldLab (Aug 5, 2011)

Yes my dog starts to bow at the 60-80 yrd range i whistle
Sit and cast wish he wld hold it longer


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Howard N said:


> I don't do pattern blinds. I've decided that my time is better spent on easyish multiple cold blinds. It always seemed like there was a transition to cold blinds whether they had had pattern blinds or not. Also, it seemed easier, less of a fight, to get them past shorter old blinds when sending for longer blinds.
> 
> YMMV


My vote as well. That is how I was trained. I find that less is more. KISS principle toward dog not me.

Edit to post: I thought some more on this and decided to add a tidbit more. My dog already knows force, granted if I did what I was supposed to do. Instead, I don't want my dog to focus on force....I want my dog to focus on the bird that is out there that I showed him or her first hand....This is how I was trained by field trailers.


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## 25-ott-06 (Mar 7, 2009)

Evan said:


> You mean with a dog that has already transitioned to cold blinds? No, not really. There are better ways.
> 
> Evan



What better way or drill would you use for a dog that is starting to break down that is already transitioned to cold blinds?


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Your dog is breaking down because the dog is not confident. What is in it for the dog???? I noticed you are a Evan groupie from another site.....


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

25-ott-06 said:


> What better way or drill would you use for a dog that is starting to break down that is already transitioned to cold blinds?


During force work, culminating in force to pile. the dog acquires compulsion; going from. Going to helps give the dog confidence, but not real momentum like going from does. A dog running a real blind (cold blind) is going from, since he has no idea where he's running to. That gives credence to why Howard and other trainers simply go directly to developing cold blinds. It's sound thinking.

By blending the more encouraging aspects of pattern blinds (going to) with the compulsion training the dog gets during Basics you should be able to smoothly transition most dogs into cold blinds seamlessly. This applies to the question about a dog starting to break down. I just use one or more drills with a gradient concept, and run cold blinds. Drills that start with relatively short easy routes, increasing in length one blind to the next. Usually 6-8 blinds per drill, but that varies with the weather. BB blinds, Gradient blind drills, or even Tune Up drills work perfectly.

Such a dog has already learned the basic aspects of lining up for and going on blinds during pattern blind work. I think a common part of why young dogs break down en route is that they've simply not been developed enough to have confidence and momentum on cold blinds. Staging distances is just a fair, sequential way of giving them the exposure they need.

Evan


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Evan said:


> During force work, culminating in force to pile. the dog acquires compulsion; going from. Going to helps give the dog confidence, but not real momentum like going from does. A dog running a real blind (cold blind) is going from, since he has no idea where he's running to. That gives credence to why Howard and other trainers simply go directly to developing cold blinds. It's sound thinking.
> 
> By blending the more encouraging aspects of pattern blinds (going to) with the compulsion training the dog gets during Basics you should be able to smoothly transition most dogs into cold blinds seamlessly. This applies to the question about a dog starting to break down. I just use one or more drills with a gradient concept, and run cold blinds. Drills that start with relatively short easy routes, increasing in length one blind to the next. Usually 6-8 blinds per drill, but that varies with the weather. BB blinds, Gradient blind drills, or even Tune Up drills work perfectly.
> 
> ...


I agree with your last paragraph Evan. Kudos


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## FieldLab (Aug 5, 2011)

Yes i am smartworks beliver, it sorta looks to me 
He is being more independant then confident, but am still
A newbie however i will go back bb blinds and maybe some lining
Drills thanks....


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## Swampbilly (May 25, 2010)

Howard N said:


> I don't do pattern blinds. I've decided that my time is better spent on easyish multiple cold blinds. *It always seemed like there was a transition to cold blinds whether they had had pattern blinds or not. Also, it seemed easier, less of a fight, to get them past shorter old blinds when sending for longer blinds.*
> 
> YMMV


Thank-you Howard.
This makes sense.

The dog is not really PUSHED _past_ one leg, or a marker with no bumpers, or an old blind to get to the next pile in Pattern Blinds- it would have to be done sooner or later, on blinds, or old falls regardless of whether the dog ran them or not.
Is that about right(?)


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Swampbilly said:


> Thank-you Howard.
> This makes sense.
> 
> The dog is not really PUSHED _past_ one leg, or a marker with no bumpers, or an old blind to get to the next pile in Pattern Blinds- it would have to be done sooner or later, on blinds, or old falls regardless of whether the dog ran them or not.
> Is that about right(?)


Those are not functions of pattern blinds, or at least they shouldn't be. In times past PBs were used for all portions of blind teaching. Our methods evolved. PBs do important basic things during the teaching phase. What the trainer needs to do is to take advantage of their benefits, and know when to move on.

Evan


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

I found this interesting and am bumping it. Perhaps some more comments?


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> I found this interesting and am bumping it. Perhaps some more comments?


I think it is interesting that Howard Neimi wrote that he didn't do pattern blinds. He did do Howard Neimi's (Gonia's) Casting Drill talked about in a recent post (on page 3 now). I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep doing pattern blinds with the next dog if there is one because it one of those things I understand well enough. My dogs have clearly learned a lot from doing pattern blinds and it takes a little bit of work for me to get going. I do it on mowed grass in the back yard field, so in a sense I'm not really doing it either.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

In a way Howard did do pattern blinds when he did the 5 legged casting drill.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

I think that the decision to do pattern blinds may depend upon the dog. I get the feeling that my pup may not need them or let's say learn them quickly.


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

From the more angle backs thread...



RetrieversONLINE said:


> I agree with Steve on this one. I see people struggle on the transition to cold blinds more than anything else. I think they need to develop both lining and casting skills. There is no question that Danny Farmer can very successfully employ his casting first strategy. BUT, I have seen very few beginners do it successfully. They simply don't have Danny's skills and ability to read and help a dog. The transition work of pattern blinds and blind drills a la Lardy works well. When it's time for "cold" blinds, a combination of walk-arounds, delayed repeated blinds and simple cold blinds, all in sets of 3 really works. I call this the 3 X 3 method. That's when I also use Danny's casting strategy if necessary. Incidentally, I often use slots or framed pictures which helps with the corridor, look out and see the destination training as per Marcy above.


I like this progression. Line first, then add diversions with blind drills to get opportunities to cast.


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> I think that the decision to do pattern blinds may depend upon the dog. I get the feeling that my pup may not need them or let's say learn them quickly.


You can do them early in training, go try it whenever you feel like it and find out. That is a bit of an exaggeration but there is truth to it. You don't have to wait to transition stage.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

DL said:


> You can do them early in training, go try it whenever you feel like it and find out. That is a bit of an exaggeration but there is truth to it. You don't have to wait to transition stage.


I would never have thought of skipping the pattern blinds with my current one year old. However he has completely surprised me. I took him to my pattern field for the first time last week. I have established one PB with one session with ease. I had a harder time with his mother, actually much harder. I just may not have to spend that much time on them.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

gdgnyc said:


> I would never have thought of skipping the pattern blinds with my current one year old. However he has completely surprised me. I took him to my pattern field for the first time last week. I have established one PB with one session with ease. I had a harder time with his mother, actually much harder. I just may not have to spend that much time on them.


You would never have known if your one year old would have had an easy or hard time on PB if you hadn't done them, right? Doing them has also given you some insight as to how quickly he learns taught blinds and that knowledge can then be used in future training. Perhaps one reason not to skip PBs?

And I apologize for not reading your entire post about Howard not doing PBs, as we both said pretty much the same thing.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Tobias said:


> You would never have known if your one year old would have had an easy or hard time on PB if you hadn't done them, right? Doing them has also given you some insight as to how quickly he learns taught blinds and that knowledge can then be used in future training. Perhaps one reason not to skip PBs?
> 
> And I apologize for not reading your entire post about Howard not doing PBs, as we both said pretty much the same thing.


Of course you are right. My mindset is to not skip anything, kind of like insurance.


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