# Master National Info



## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Master National Judges:


Flight A: Blake Lemish
Michelle Love

Flight B: Megan Baker
Allyn Foster


Flight C: Mike Collson
Corrine Clavey


Flight D: Bill Blochowiak
Mike Jespersen



Master National Rotation


128
2
27
52
77
102

Master National first rotation:


Flight A: Doughnut/ land-water


Flight B: Lakeside/ Land-Water


Flight C: Valley / Land. Pheasants 


Flight D: Rifle / Land. Pheasants


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Scratches:

Flight A:
74
76
78
105
114

B:
4
6
10
17
22
103
122
136

C:
2
10
46
57
68
72
75
98
100
108
111
142

D:
150


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

2015 Master National Judges
Cheraw, SC


Region 1: Martin Bell
Robert Rascoe


Region 2: Carol Hynes
Tom McMorrow


Region 3: Bruce Bachert
Kay Scott


Region 4: Dale Langhorne
Tellus Calhoun


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

Location for 16 announced?


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Proposal for changes to the Judging requirements for MN Failed


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Nothing on 2016


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Thomas D said:


> I know you're busy but how did the vote go on MN judging change?
> Anything good at the Akc meeting?


17 votes for and 85 against.

Ain't technology grand regards

Bubba


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Judging changes proposal failed. Nothing notable in AKC


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

Made my decision following Black Warrior's test even easier.


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

It was definitely addressed. Several issues along with it. But no clear decisions were announced. Or at least not that I heard. I did step out of the tent during AKC info and was also updating my book with scratches


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

Richard they changed the way site selection is done about a year ago. It will be decided at the winter mtg in Jan I'm thinking 
Dk


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Moose Mtn said:


> Proposal for changes to the Judging requirements for MN Failed


Good! Thanks for the update.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Is there any way to get a description or rough diagram of the various tests?


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

Dave Kress said:


> Richard they changed the way site selection is done about a year ago. It will be decided at the winter mtg in Jan I'm thinking
> Dk


Thanks Dave


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

There is a pretty good summary of the presentation, including RHTAC recommendations to AKC and which ones passed, on the MNRC Blog.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

found some diagrams....looks like some nice setups
http://masternational.wordpress.com/2014/10/11/2014-master-national-test-diagrams/


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

A friend at the MN says Lakeside is taking 10 minutes per dog, yikes. Going to be a long series.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

I understand the heat is very uncomfortable


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Ha!!! So... what's it going to feel like next October in South Carolina?


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## Quacktastic (Oct 4, 2013)

1tulip said:


> Ha!!! So... what's it going to feel like next October in South Carolina?


Probably cooler than it is in California right now. The average high this time of year is 77 degrees....and that's on the coast. But you never know....we experienced record heat yesterday for this time of year, as it was 88 degrees outside. But our humidity can be a bear.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

And huge gusty winds are making things tough and presenting totally differnt test than yesterday.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Has flight A finished? Had a friend (#94) who was going to be running very late in the stack... she has run. When do you expect the first call-backs?


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## Quacktastic (Oct 4, 2013)

1tulip said:


> Has flight A finished? Had a friend (#94) who was going to be running very late in the stack... she has run. When do you expect the first call-backs?



They should have just finished up with the donut and are going to be moving to "the corner" as I understand it.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Seems like this thread could be made a sticky....they did it for both Ntl. FT, why not MN?>


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

First round of callbacks are posted. Except flight B, which hasn't finished.


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Long hot and windy day. Made a difficult test more of a challenge. 126 dogs called back in Flight A. Lots of handles


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Thomas D said:


> MN is not on the same level as Natl Open or Am.


No kidding


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## Quacktastic (Oct 4, 2013)

Pam Spears said:


> First round of callbacks are posted. Except flight B, which hasn't finished.


I don't see anything other than the roster with scratches listed.


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## TXPride (Nov 14, 2013)

Quacktastic said:


> I don't see anything other than the roster with scratches listed.


this what you are looking for?

http://mnrc.publishpath.com/Websites/mnrc/images/2014_MN_Docs/2014callbacks.pdf


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## Quacktastic (Oct 4, 2013)

TXPride said:


> this what you are looking for?
> 
> http://mnrc.publishpath.com/Websites/mnrc/images/2014_MN_Docs/2014callbacks.pdf


Im seeing it now. Thank you


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Hooray! My training group members got called back! 

Question: On the water triple with blind (The Corner) which direction are the birds thrown? (Is the blind under the arc?)


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## crawfordw2 (Jan 8, 2013)

Moose Mtn said:


> Long hot and windy day. Made a difficult test more of a challenge. 126 dogs called back in Flight A. Lots of handles


Question: How many handles are you allowed to use on marks during the whole MN?


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

There is no set number. 

And remember not all handles are equal. There is a difference to handling after the dog hunts in the area of the fall and handling to the fall.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Bummer. 2 of my buds are out in second series. Is flight A on "the corner"? Great pics on the MN blog. But does anyone know which way the birds are being thrown?


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

Lady Duck Hunter said:


> There is no set number.
> 
> And remember not all handles are equal. There is a difference to handling after the dog hunts in the area of the fall and handling to the fall.


What page of the rulebook is that defined on? I don't see anything differentiating between a handle.

*Chapter 4, Section 8.* 
A dog that fails to find a bird which, in the opinion of the Judges, it should have found, shall be graded “0” in Marking.

*Chapter 5, Section 4. Marking and Memory of Birds.* 
In Junior, Senior and Master Tests, marking and memory of birds are of primary importance. While dogs may be handled in all three levels of testing, this is undesirable in marking tests and should be utilized only as a last recourse to get a bird out of the field. A dog that goes to the area of the fall, establishes a hunt and finds the bird unaided must be scored appreciably higher than a dog that has to be handled to the bird.

*Chapter 5, Section 7. Master Hunting Test *
(8) Dogs may be handled on marks but must be scored with greater stringency than Senior Hunting dogs in Marking and/or Perseverance. 

*A dog that goes to the area of the fall and finds the bird unaided shall be scored appreciably higher than a dog that must be handled to a bird*.


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## EJ (Dec 5, 2011)

crawfordw2 said:


> Question: How many handles are you allowed to use on marks during the whole MN?


In a typical Master Test you can usually get through with one handle. Forget the rule book for second (not trying to start a fight) and focus on the practicality.

You'll likely have 8-9 marks in a three series Master to demonstrate marking for your dog. If you can average out a "7" for marking with a" 0" or low score on one of those marks you can pass.

Unlikely to be able to do that with two handles in a Master test but I have seen it happen.

The MN is essentially two Master Hunt Tests. Now you have up to 18 birds if you have a "0" to average out.

Speculation would be some dogs will pass the MN with 2 handles but unlikely with 3 or more.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Yep. That's been my experience. Two handles on marks and bye-bye. And that's with no cast refusals. Dog's gotta show she can mark.


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## crawfordw2 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks! That was the answer I was looking for.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Splash_em said:


> What page of the rulebook is that defined on? I don't see anything differentiating between a handle.
> 
> *Chapter 4, Section 8.*
> A dog that fails to find a bird which, in the opinion of the Judges, it should have found, shall be graded “0” in Marking.
> ...


Once you start judging master hopefully you will understand.

/Paul


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Once you start judging master hopefully you will understand.
> 
> /Paul


Thanks, but you never have to worry about that. 

What isn't true or do you disagree with that is straight out of the rulebook? 

I personally don't agree with it. If Fido established the distance and direction of the bird but just couldn't dig it out, I believe it marked the bird and should be scored as such. If Fido doesn't know which way is up, the score should reflect that also.


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## hooked on quackers (Nov 7, 2010)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Once you start judging master hopefully you will understand.
> 
> /Paul


Are you saying Master judges should not or do not go by rulebook?


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## Codatango (Aug 2, 2009)

Master B had eight dogs left over from the first series to run early Monday morning.
120 dogs were called back for the second series at the Clays, which is all rooster pheasents, including a flyer. That test is taking 4-5 minutes per dog and we have a little over 30 left to finish Tuesday morning.

The master national blog has a good description of the test by one of the handlers. Finding the roosters is somewhat challenging for some of the dogs, requiring quite a few handles (however mostly on just one bird)

When I mentioned this to someone, they said that MB has a large group of people from the south and southeast, and that is not pheasent country, so they are not native to the area and also hard to come by for training.

Debbie Tandoc
San Jose California


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## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

I am having trouble finding an updated callback list, can anyone help?


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## Beverly Burns (Apr 20, 2006)

My computer will not let me see callbacks but my husbands will. Must be something in security or settings?


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## EJ (Dec 5, 2011)

I've had luck with hitting the refresh button- F5- or can refresh in the address window.

Flight D callbacks to the 3rd series are posted and they are moving to "Lakeside" but not sure if the other flights have finished 2nd series yet. Blog has not been updated yet this AM-

Wish I could be up there- this whole work thing sucks


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Thomas D said:


> I'm surprised the RHTAC didn't bring up the entry problems.



ROFLMAF Best joke I have heard all day


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

hooked on quackers said:


> Are you saying Master judges should not or do not go by rulebook?


Of course they do. However if read the rules closely it is still up to the judges to determine the scoring and determine how the dog did according to the standard. As stated before, not all handles are created equal.

/Paul


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## JKOttman (Feb 3, 2004)

Beverly Burns said:


> My computer will not let me see callbacks but my husbands will. Must be something in security or settings?


Go to your browser (in IE it's under Tools) and delete browsing history. That will show you the most up to date version.


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## EJ (Dec 5, 2011)

Retriever News Blog has not been updated today- only minimal info on Facebook Page- Surprised after the great coverage from the last few days.
Anyone have an idea of today's details?
Start numbers for the flights?
Idea of how the tests are going- handles- weather concerns- any one test seem more of a challenge between flights

I did see the callbacks from the second series- seemed like Flight B lost many more than the others in second series.

No cell coverage in the office for text updates from friends at the event.


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Flight A is at"valley". Pheasant series with flyer and blind. 

right to left in deep cover. Birds in 60-75 yard range. Bird 1 giving a few dogs trouble due to wind carrying the noise away from the line. Dogs are focused in on middle blind station... A few handles to that bird. Quite a few handles to the flyer as they are leading in deep cover and the wind isn't helping. Judges are clear that they don't want to see big huge hunts 

Our golden took a handle on bird 1 in the first series and is clean in the 2nd and 3rd 

good of solid tests that are challenging some very good dogs-fair tests that are a good challenge

108 dogs made it thru 2nd series to start 3rd


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

I don't know much on the other flights- but flight A is really functioning like a well oiled machine. Totally efficient. Judges have been on top of things and ready for dogs. We should finish early tomorrow. Hoping to get to 100ish today. Kudos to gunners. Only 1 no bird ( crazy flying rooster) for the whole series of 3 tests


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## EJ (Dec 5, 2011)

Moose Mtn said:


> Flight A is at"valley". Pheasant series with flyer and blind.
> 
> right to left in deep cover. Birds in 60-75 yard range. Bird 1 giving a few dogs trouble due to wind carrying the noise away from the line. Dogs are focused in on middle blind station... A few handles to that bird. Quite a few handles to the flyer as they are leading in deep cover and the wind isn't helping. Judges are clear that they don't want to see big huge hunts
> 
> ...


Thanks Brian!


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

Last night was the Volunteers Party. That might be why things are a little slow getting started today. Plus you have yo remember they are on West Coast time....it is still early there now.


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## Cptmorgan177 (Oct 11, 2014)

I would love to go watch


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## Cptmorgan177 (Oct 11, 2014)

Will it be in the east coast in the next year or two?


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## RJG (Feb 18, 2005)

Cheraw, SC in 2015


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## Cptmorgan177 (Oct 11, 2014)

Nice. I'll be there


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Flight A moved to "puck". Aka "puckered"! 96 dogs called back from 3rd series.


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## blckdog (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for the updates on flight A


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## EJ (Dec 5, 2011)

Flight D moved to "The Corner" for the 4th/ 
The 3rd series test at "Lakeside" was a big cut with 25+ dogs being eliminated- down to about half of where they started after 3 series- number of dogs left in the 70's- They started the 4th yesterday but didn't get very far before ending for the day.

Seems like the birds are very tight this year with some marks within 5-10 yards of each other- 

- very few dogs completed the 3rd series of Flight D without a handle-


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

Anyone know the number of 1st time participants at this year's event?


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Flight A completed 4th yesterday with 91 dogs called back to the 5th. Next series is Eucalyptus


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

#69 Richard - when they asked about 1st timers at the banquet there were a lot of folks stood up it seemed like half the room. 
Dk


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## EJ (Dec 5, 2011)

Anyone have any updates today? Which flight at which test?

I know "D' was going to a land triple but not sure which test- down to about 60 dogs


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## Dan Epperson (Jan 16, 2013)

Great weather here this morning. Here is link to callbacks. 
http://mnrc.publishpath.com/Websites/mnrc/images/2014_MN_Docs/2014callbacks.pdf


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

6th series started today. c finished their 5th about an hour ago. They moved to Corner. A is at rifle and the wind is pretty tough. 

We we are on our way home. No plate this year. Went into the 5th with on handle- but went 5 yards or so past the blind... So dropped due to the blind. Dang it! All his blinds were pretty until that one.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

1st series lost 94 out of 574 running 16.4%
2nd series lost 73 out of 480 running 15.2%
3rd series lost 57 out of 407 running 14.0%
4th series lost 41 out of 350 running 11.7%
5th series lost 45 out of 309 running 14.6%

Total after 5 series lost 310 out of 574 running 54.0% out with 1 series to go


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

Flight A has lost 57 out of 143 running 46.9%
Flight B has lost 87 out of 143 running 60.8%
Flight C has lost 70 out of 139 running 50.4%
Flight D has lost 96 out of 149 running 64.4%


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

Can someone point me to which flight ran which test in which series so I can do percentages for the tests please...
I know A started with DONUT, B with Lakeside, C with Valley and D with Rifle but do not know where they went after that


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

Flight A should be : lost 57 out of 143 running 39.9%


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## hownagytoo (Jun 26, 2011)

Here's the order for D:
Rifle
Speed bump
Lakeside
Corner
Clays
Donut


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