# Which Starter Pistol To Buy??



## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

What's the pistol of choice if you needed to buy a new one? Prefer 209....Randy...( also my puppies cigar bumpers but older dogs don't..lol)


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## yellow machine (Dec 7, 2005)

Alpha 209 not picky on what brand you use


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

What ever happened to the gunx folks? I heard they had some production problems. Is that clearing up for them? I've handled both and liked the gunx ones better than the alpha.


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

I have a gunx and love it


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Don't think the Alpha 209 is worth the money. In the absence of the GunX pistol, I would just buy several of the $69 pistols like that shown in the link. You have to put up with the lack of a cylinder lock but I have found them more reliable than the Alpha at a much lower price. 

See http://www.lcsupply.com/Starter-Pistol-209-Primer/productinfo/SPP/


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## IowaBayDog (May 17, 2006)

Alfa 209. I believe it is well worth the money and of high quality. Its a level of quality as some real revolvers out there. I've had mine for about 6 months without a malfunction of any kind. The only issue is that cheap 209s don't work in them very well, their size is not consistent. Winchester and CCIs work great.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/alfa-209primer.html

I had one of the cheap one's previously and it was cheap. Though they are about 3-1 in price, I'd rather have one good one than 3 cheap ones.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I have an Alpha, IF you don't keep it very clean and lubed it is a bitch to get the spent shells out


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

IowaBayDog said:


> Alfa 209. I believe it is well worth the money and of high quality. Its a level of quality as some real revolvers out there. I've had mine for about 6 months without a malfunction of any kind. The only issue is that cheap 209s don't work in them very well, their size is not consistent. Winchester and CCIs work great.
> 
> http://www.gundogsupply.com/alfa-209primer.html
> 
> I had one of the cheap one's previously and it was cheap. Though they are about 3-1 in price, I'd rather have one good one than 3 cheap ones.


What brand of primers are you calling the cheap ones?


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## HoHum's Retrievers (Mar 22, 2007)

I've had almost all of them. Started with the $69 guns over 15 years ago. Had the first one and was happy with that I bought a second one for my wife to use as she also trained a dog. Same model from the same source but was a junker from the get go. My original gun gave up after about a year's worth of training. Not daily training either, and since I live in Minnesota, back them it wasn't even getting used at all in the winter months. 

From there I graduated to a NEF/H and R 32 caliber and was still able to find the brass bushings/adapters to adapt it to shoot 209 primers. I am not certain you can find a NEF gun around any longer unless you score one used somewhere. I have heard the bushings are very difficult to find. However, the clearance on my gun between the frame and the cylinder is a little tight so I am limited to using Chedite primers as the fit well. That's ok as they are usually the cheapest. I usually buy 5000 at a time and they last a long time and sell a few to my training partners. 

I have an Alpha as well. One of the first generation ones with a chrome finish. It works well for me. It can be a little sensitive. If one tightens the screws too tight it squeezes the trigger too tightly and you have some problems but now that I and my gunsmith know what the issue is it isn't a deal breaker. 

The best gun that was ever out there was Jerry Day's Days End gun. I inherited it from my dad. Really a lot like a NEF/H and R gun except built from the ground up to shoot primers. You can't find that one anywhere either any more. I'd sell you mine, but you can't afford it. 

I've got buddies that have the Gunx and I like them a lot. Smaller and lighter than the Alpha and I don't think I have heard of anyone having trouble with it.

I wouldn't buy a $69 ever again. Myself, I would save up the money and buy the best I can get. My NEF and Days End guns are nearly 15 years old and have stood the test of time. There are old-timers at my club that have NEF/H and R guns that are easily 25 years old. $70 a year for the past 15 years would have cost me over $1000 by now plus the frustration of having a gun break down on me. My more expensive guns (they weren't $250 when they were new back then) have cost me way less than that.


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## IowaBayDog (May 17, 2006)

Brad B said:


> What brand of primers are you calling the cheap ones?


Whatever Sportsmen's Warehouse sells that were not CCI or Winchester. I threw away the box when I put them in my pill bottle containers. It was not a brand I had ever heard of and just bought a couple hundred to try them. They work fine in wingers, but they actually swell up and stick a bit in those sometimes even.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

HoHum's Retrievers said:


> I've had almost all of them. Started with the $69 guns over 15 years ago. Had the first one and was happy with that I bought a second one for my wife to use as she also trained a dog. Same model from the same source but was a junker from the get go. My original gun gave up after about a year's worth of training. Not daily training either, and since I live in Minnesota, back them it wasn't even getting used at all in the winter months.
> 
> From there I graduated to a NEF/H and R 32 caliber and was still able to find the brass bushings/adapters to adapt it to shoot 209 primers. I am not certain you can find a NEF gun around any longer unless you score one used somewhere. I have heard the bushings are very difficult to find. However, the clearance on my gun between the frame and the cylinder is a little tight so I am limited to using Chedite primers as the fit well. That's ok as they are usually the cheapest. I usually buy 5000 at a time and they last a long time and sell a few to my training partners.
> 
> ...


No doubt the NEF variations (including the Days End pistol) & the GunX pistol are much more reliable than anything else currently available. I own a Days End primer pistol, NEF .22cal pistol & a GunX primer pistol & use them as my regular training pistols but I have owned the Alpha & find it no more reliable than the $69 BBM. When I owned Dogs Afield I sold the Alpha & got many back, especially from pros & high volume users. I use the cheapy when an extra is needed in the field or as a loaner. It shoots every variety of primers & I can replace it 3x for the price of the Alpha.


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## Pupknuckle (Aug 15, 2008)

I just bought the Thunder 100. everyone that I talked to that had one , loved it.


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## dogluvah (Apr 24, 2012)

I am sure many people really appreciate their tried and true NEF and GunX, but it is frustrating as a relatively newcomer to this sport to be referred to equipment that is no longer available. I recently bought a $89 primer pistol from Gun Dogs Online, after choosing between several in that price range. The only info I had was Steve from Gun Dog Supply said he had complaints that his similar model was hard for smaller hands to shoot.
I would love a NEF or GunX,, but don't see anyone selling theirs


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## TexGold (Jan 27, 2009)

Reading this thread makes me so damn glad I live in Texas. We just go to gun shows and skulk around for old 9 shot H&R .22s and load them with Ramset gun loads. The guns run from $75 to $150 and last forever.


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## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

I have tried many guns and so far the Alpha .209 if clean on a regular bases work great.
Wonder if any of you have tried the pop start .209 primer shooter available @ Gun dog supply........Would love to ear comments on that gun?
Our retriever club are thinking being many of those for our gunners, we normally use the one shot zinger winger that need 2 hands to take the shot.
To much for a beginner gunner that have to throw, call and take a shot that need 2 hands.
What i like about this gun is you need one hand to take the shot and must last for ever....all stainless steel.

Thanks!


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Randy Bohn said:


> What's the pistol of choice if you needed to buy a new one? Prefer 209....Randy...( also my puppies cigar bumpers but older dogs don't..lol)


Then can I have the 2 NEF's back please?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

At Track Meets these days they use an electronic pistol that's louder than a 22 me thinks. 
Anyone ever look into them?


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## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Hummmm!
Interesting Breck!
Love the idea.......


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Breck said:


> At Track Meets these days they use an electronic pistol that's louder than a 22 me thinks.
> Anyone ever look into them?


Looked at them a couple of years ago. It's possible but not feasible. The intent of the electronic pistol is to have sound reach each runner at the same time so speakers are used to produce the sound behind each (or equidistant to) the runners. As I understand it the pistol itself makes no noise but instead produces an electronic signal which produces a sound similar to a pistol shot when received by the speakers. Not cheap either. So high price, need for power source & separate speakers makes this less than a reasonable alternative.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

I'm thinking Randy was just looking for a little entertainment...

He'll probably be asking about English Labs or Silver Labradoodles next;-)


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

IowaBayDog said:


> Whatever Sportsmen's Warehouse sells that were not CCI or Winchester. I threw away the box *when I put them in my pill bottle containers*. It was not a brand I had ever heard of and just bought a couple hundred to try them. They work fine in wingers, but they actually swell up and stick a bit in those sometimes even.


please keep your primers in the box they come in.
use a bit of painters tape to keep from falling out.


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## Eric Whitacre (Mar 10, 2011)

Alain said:


> Wonder if any of you have tried the pop start .209 primer shooter available @ Gun dog supply........Would love to ear comments on that gun?
> Our retriever club are thinking being many of those for our gunners, we normally use the one shot zinger winger that need 2 hands to take the shot.
> To much for a beginner gunner that have to throw, call and take a shot that need 2 hands.
> What i like about this gun is you need one hand to take the shot and must last for ever....all stainless steel.
> Thanks!


I think you are talking about this... http://www.gundogsupply.com/pop-start-primer-shooter.html

I have one and use it often. My wife and kids (13/16) are able to load it and fire it w/o any issues. They prefer to use the GunX starter pistol but they can use the pop-start.

I did have to file off some rough edges and enlarge the button clip hole to get it to work reliably.

As everyone else has said, I would buy another GunX if I could.

I bought the pop-start because it isn't a gun and sometimes we train in parks or near schools.

Also, I bought one of these http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Snip-Pouch-88589N11/203222847 to carry it out into the field. Just clip it onto the bucket w/ the birds/dokens/2-way/primers.


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## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Yes Eric, that is the one i meat.
Indeed like you mention we need something that do not look like a gun in the field and specially handle buy young people when we train close to the public site.

I will suggest to buy one and tested it........will see!

Thanks for your comment


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## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

also like gun x but....not sure what to buy now....state of confusion on pistols right now...Thanks everyone...Randy


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

Can't tell you what one to buy, but I will say from my personnel experience the Kilmers (spelling?), are garbage IMO.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> Looked at them a couple of years ago. It's possible but not feasible. The intent of the electronic pistol is to have sound reach each runner at the same time so speakers are used to produce the sound behind each (or equidistant to) the runners. As I understand it the pistol itself makes no noise but instead produces an electronic signal which produces a sound similar to a pistol shot when received by the speakers. Not cheap either. So high price, need for power source & separate speakers makes this less than a reasonable alternative.


.
Hey Dave
Think there are pistol only versions, I believe, without comm to speakers. just like some can't swing a full up MFRD opting for an MFD or even a simple plain vanilla display. 
I go down to UPENN weekly where they hold the famous relay event. Think I'll ask around and see what's available.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

What is the go-to pistol of the pointer people?

That is the one to buy.

If the blank pistol don't work when they have to fake shoot a bird, they get dropped from the field trial, no?

So buy what they buy if you want the best.

Sadly I do not know what that is, now that GunX is not producing.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

The 32 with blanks, but I now use the NEF with yellow loads.

Edit to post: I believe they make the 32 now with 209 primers insert.


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## thebigcat (Feb 17, 2010)

Ken Bora said:


> please keep your primers in the box they come in.
> use a bit of painters tape to keep from falling out.


What's your reasoning behind this?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> please keep your primers in the box they come in.
> use a bit of painters tape to keep from falling out.





thebigcat said:


> What's your reasoning behind this?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

I hand Load rifle and pistol. I have had a batch of 99 primers go boom in my hand. The first one seated.
I train retrievers with other people. I know first hand of a person who had a pill bottle full go boom in hand.
You wanna hand a 14 year old bird boy a bag of ducks, and blank gun and a bottle of primers?
Like I hear they say down under Mason and Dixons line,
Bless your heart.


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Alain said:


> Yes Eric, that is the one i meat.
> Indeed like you mention we need something that do not look like a gun in the field and specially handle buy young people when we train close to the public site.
> 
> I will suggest to buy one and tested it........will see!
> ...


We used PopStarts in our winter camp for the last 4-5 years. Three or four gunners in the field each firing off 50-60 rounds a day, 5 1/2 days a week for three months of the year. Zero problems.

I can see no reason why one wouldn't last your lifetime ... there is nothing to break.

And once you get the hang of using it, you can get off 6 shots (reloading one at a time) faster than you can empty a Days End six-shooter and reload the cylinder. (I know this to be true ... it cost me $10 to find out! :razz

JS


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

JS said:


> We used PopStarts in our winter camp for the last 4-5 years. Three or four gunners in the field each firing off 50-60 rounds a day, 5 1/2 days a week for three months of the year. Zero problems.
> 
> I can see no reason why one wouldn't last your lifetime ... there is nothing to break.
> 
> ...


Yes these are nice to use but can you still buy them?


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## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

JS, thanks for your comment about the Pop start pistol.
I know how expensive it can be training dogs.......specially when you train with real good friends that thy only thing they are thinking of taking your $ of your pocket.
Ho well @ least our $ goes to a friend.....

They look available on Gun dog supply!


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## DEN/TRU/CRU (May 29, 2007)

I've got the Days End 209, BEST EVER MADE!! Sure wish it was still on the market!


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Yes these are nice to use but can you still buy them?


I'm not sure if anyone is still retailing them, but if not, Scott Dewey may still have some. He's the guy who designed them and Ainley manufactured them.

He sold quite a few of them to fellow pros and others who were around to see them work. I don't believe they were a big hit through the retailers ... too unconventional for a lot of people. 

If you want one but can't find them, let me know.

JS


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## IowaBayDog (May 17, 2006)

Ken Bora said:


> I hand Load rifle and pistol. I have had a batch of 99 primers go boom in my hand. The first one seated.
> I train retrievers with other people. I know first hand of a person who had a pill bottle full go boom in hand.
> You wanna hand a 14 year old bird boy a bag of ducks, and blank gun and a bottle of primers?
> Like I hear they say down under Mason and Dixons line,
> Bless your heart.


The people I have trained with and I have always used pill bottles with never an incident. After a little google search I may change my policy on it since my kids are getting more involved. Though I think its a low percentage freek accident type thing its not worth the risk. Might have to find a plastic container to keep the primer packs in, them getting wet is always an issue.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

IowaBayDog said:


> The people I have trained with and I have always used pill bottles with never an incident. After a little google search I may change my policy on it since my kids are getting more involved. Though I think its a low percentage freek accident type thing its not worth the risk. Might have to find a plastic container to keep the primer packs in, them getting wet is always an issue.




....


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

mitty said:


> What is the go-to pistol of the pointer people?
> 
> That is the one to buy.
> 
> ...


Uh, no. See Dave Didier's very valid comments about "their" best, the Alpha.









Originally Posted by *Ken Bora*please keep your primers in the box they come in.
use a bit of painters tape to keep from falling out.








Originally Posted by *thebigcat*
What's your reasoning behind this?





Ken Bora said:


>


Moral of this incendiary story: Don't seat on a duck or directly over your training p/murse if .209 primers are bottled inside...

MG


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