# Who are the best FC AFC not being bred too because..



## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Who the best field champions right now not being bred because they are carriers? A discussion on another thread got me to thinking. I mention looking at records and a yellow dog named skeeter seems to be one of the most consistent dogs over last 4-5 years but isn't ever bred too. Either is the other dog the owners owns named manny. Not looking for any kind of heated debate just curious of what your opinion is.


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## justin300mag (May 28, 2010)

I would definitely put Tealcreek pattons saber on that list.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Maybe the owners do not want to deal with all the BOLOGNA that comes with breeding dogs ?


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

justin300mag said:


> I would definitely put Tealcreek pattons saber on that list.


http://www.hightest.com/stud_saber.php


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## Gunners Up (Jul 29, 2004)

FC's & AFC's are a rare and exclusive club of animals and owners. To get on a public forum and ask who and why people are not breeding to a certain stud is in very bad form in my opinion. The personal time, hard work, money, luck, and dedication to title a dog is daunting and the end product each takes away from this sport is different. In regards to the yellow dog you inquired of earlier, it has been my observation that he & his owner are more concerned with kicking butt and winning trials than how many times he has been bred. Go to trials, run your dog, watch, learn and figure it out. First hand observation is the best opinion in this sport.

RD


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

CNFC CNAFC FC AFC Nightwings Marsh Leader...Guide is one heck of a dog, got a chance to watch him up close when Sherwin was still with us....he is the real deal...very nice pedigree too..Patton on one side, and Cosmo and Carbon of Horn Creek on the other.....


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## justin300mag (May 28, 2010)

Dave Farrar said:


> http://www.hightest.com/stud_saber.php


I know he has done some breedings but not many which is what makes the stats with his puppies all the more impressive. I am on the waiting list for a pup out of Saber as we speak.


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Who who is Guide owned by now? Kippy?




BonMallari said:


> CNFC CNAFC FC AFC Nightwings Marsh Leader...Guide is one heck of a dog, got a chance to watch him up close when Sherwin was still with us....he is the real deal...very nice pedigree too..Patton on one side, and Cosmo and Carbon of Horn Creek on the other.....


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## Bbrown (Jan 5, 2013)

Regardless of EIC status, I believe one of the nicest animals running right now is Holland (I know he is clear). I had a nice conversation with Dr. Ed about 2 months ago when I was concerned with the progress of my current dog to try to track down a puppy. He stated that he is not being bred as much as I would have suspected with his pedigree and track record. It seems to me that regionally, 3 dogs are being bred (very nice dogs) more than others. 

I am also on board with Guide, Saber, Bullet and I would like to see more Juice puppies too.


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

David Maddox has a planned Holland breeding in the works and David also has a pretty good track record.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Bbrown said:


> Regardless of EIC status, I believe one of the nicest animals running right now is Holland (I know he is clear). I had a nice conversation with Dr. Ed about 2 months ago when I was concerned with the progress of my current dog to try to track down a puppy. He stated that he is not being bred as much as I would have suspected with his pedigree and track record. It seems to me that regionally, 3 dogs are being bred (very nice dogs) more than others.
> 
> I am also on board with Guide, Saber, Bullet and I would like to see more Juice puppies too.



A guy I train with has a Holland pup that is really nice. I want to breed my Peerless this year, and if she wasn't so closely related (Willie - Sire, Kweezy - Grand Dam) to Holland I would definitely consider him.


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

I am right on board with Holland and can not understand why he isn't bred more. Clear....littermate to a National champ female....out of the top producing bitch of all time. Geography is an interesting thing. I plan to repeat my Karma breeding to him next winter. Love what the first breeding produced. Fingers crossed for Dr. Ed and Holland at the Am National in a couple weeks.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm not really sure the carrier debate is the end all in why some dogs get bred a lot and why some dogs don't. I think the real end all is with the stud owners, some are very good at promoting their stud for breeding; some don't seem to care if their studs get breedings or not. Some owners are also very particular on who and how many breeding their stud will have, per year, etc; and when they'll allow a breeding to take place. Some don't want any distractions while their campaigning. Studing a dog unless it's frozen and a clinic takes care of everything is a major PITA; even then you have to deal with the females owner, who really likes countless probing-fishing phone-calls . If not frozen the dog has to go in to be collected for AI, or stud owner has to take on the responsibility of a female. If the dog is on a pros truck, the owner has to arrange it with the pro. I have heard of parking lot romances, but why would anyone want to mess with a males mental state, when your trying to win. Then there's always the bandwagon type of breeder, who breed to certain flavors because they are in demand. Others don't know who to breed to so they jump on the bandwagon, knowing their ensured puppy sales. There seems to be a lot more of that type breeder; and the type of breeder who produces several litters a year, and needs puppy sales. Then there's the type of breeder who has a performance female, and will only do 1-2 breedings in their females life-time; to get their next dog, these type are more apt to go for an under-used stud, but usually that choice has more to do with who they like, who they are familiar with, who's in their circuit. Then you add in the fact than many performance females are also carriers; it cuts down their choices, so they might have to go with a highly used stud, because he is a good match; but he's also EIC clear.

I have a carrier female pup; her mom was clear I choose an under utilized carrier stud (because he was phenomenal, and the few litters he had produced all the pups were doing very well )I'll probably breed the pup in 5-6yrs. I'm just glad my choices are going to be a lot broader for clear males at that time, it would've been tough to match a carrier female, a few years ago.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

FC AFC Tealcreek Patton's Saber will be running in this year's National Amateur as will be 3 of his puppies out of FC/AFC Flyway's Ruby B. Gonia. They are AFC Cool Fuel, AFC Midnight Shooter III, and AFC Flyway's Long Tall Sally. 

Cool Fuel (Nitro) just won an Amateur last weekend. Sally won an Amateur 2 weeks ago, and Shooter has recent placements in the same trials. 

Ruby did not make it this year. She will be watching from the truck. She and Saber were National Am Finalists in 2011. A Shaq x Ruby daughter (QAA, one Amateur win) will be bred to Saber the next time she comes into season (maybe in Sept). 

Helen


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

BonMallari said:


> CNFC CNAFC FC AFC Nightwings Marsh Leader...Guide is one heck of a dog, got a chance to watch him up close when Sherwin was still with us....he is the real deal...very nice pedigree too..Patton on one side, and Cosmo and Carbon of Horn Creek on the other.....


You are so right, Bon. Guide is an outstanding competitor with a great pedigree on both sides. Let's look more closely at his pedigree....

Sire: Carbon

Dam: Patton's Party Girl -- litter sister to FC AFC Tealcreek Patton's Saber. 

In 2008 we bred a Carbon daughter (half-sister to Guide) to Saber. What did we get?
5 puppies on the 2010 Derby list
7 QAA puppies
4 AFC with FC pts. (some with Open wins)
3 of those AFC will be running in this year's National Amateur competing against their sire Saber. Another littermate qualified for the National Am at 3 years of age. 

I encourage anyone with a clear bitch to study Guide's pedigree. I think the Carbon x Patton combination is a winner. It has been good for us. 

Helen Graves


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

with the advent of the internet, a potential Sire's reputation sometimes outpaces its actual accomplishments..Whenever I see a thread where someone is asking for a potential stud for their female, I wonder if they have even seen the dog's they recommend or could pick them out of a photo if it wasnt captioned...

conversely IMO there are many worthy Sire's that will never get used because they arent part of the "cool club" or because people dont do their due diligence and realize that certain dogs are full siblings to their regally titled litter mates...

Its also puzzling how former national champions of just a few season's ago are no longer even mentioned in the conversation when potential studs are discussed, but the circuit " stud de jour" name(s) pops up time and again


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

I have heard it said many times. " I would rather breed to a proven dog with proven track record and consistent during his career than a dog that was consistent for a week and got a N in front of his name" not that the National winners are good but many breeders breed to whoever wins the national regardless of it is strictly to sell pups and for more money.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

And before anyone flips out, I'm not saying anything bad about NFC or nafc. They are all great animals to even make it to that stage.


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## Dick Lamping (Oct 29, 2008)

Lauren Hayes and FC/AFC BAYOU TECHE EYE ON THE BALL, 7wins last year,3wins so far this year. Very consistent.He is 6yrs old. He is out of NFC CLUBMEAD ROAD WARRIOR. Had a litter out Slider and sold all the pups(7)in 3 weeks. Have a young 5month old female, doing 145yd marks. Very smart and fast to learn. Thinking of a re-breed. She is also one of the best person to deal with. GO SLIDER!!!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Dick Lamping said:


> Lauren Hayes and FC/AFC BAYOU TECHE EYE ON THE BALL, 7wins last year,3wins so far this year. Very consistent.He is 6yrs old. He is out of NFC CLUBMEAD ROAD WARRIOR. Had a litter out Slider and sold all the pups(7)in 3 weeks. Have a young 5month old female, doing 145yd marks. Very smart and fast to learn. Thinking of a re-breed. She is also one of the best person to deal with. GO SLIDER!!!


I don't think that Slider fits the parameters of this thread, he does not fit the profile of the op's topic. He is a wonderful dog and has been so identified by record and numbers of breedings. The op's question was about titled dogs who have not been bred or under bred.


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

I would say Weezer would have fit the profile..


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

Wheezer was probably the most bred of the Keihla offspring. On that tangent Karma's littermates FC Freeway and FC Juice are also underbred. And Freeway is clear. Makes very little sense.


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## Barry Ireland (Feb 18, 2005)

We have a Freeway male that is just 5 months old. I have never seen a pup that turns it on in the field and can shut it off in the house like this guy!


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Lpgar, u said and freeway is clear and u don't get it. Did freeway Finnish and a finalist in 7 or so nationals? I don't know so I'm asking because if he didn't maybe that's why weezer was bred more than freeway because he had a better trial record.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

After rereading your post maybe I misunderstood, are freeway and weezer litter mates? I apologize if I misread what u said


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Luke T said:


> After rereading your post maybe I misunderstood, are freeway and weezer litter mates? I apologize if I misread what u said



Look at these two pedigrees:

http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=96474

http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=100821


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

i don't think eic carrier fc drake's bay parting of the sea, "moses" gets bred very often. he looks very hot and marked well when i have seen him.

i don't think am trained fc afc bayou bays bodago(fc afc shadow x fc afc lean mac female) who recently passed was bred a great deal. i had one of his pups that was nice, shouldn't have sold him. mr. wendell has frozen.

i have a fc afc holland pup. at twelve months he is fun and seems to be coming along nicely.

luke and gar, my theory on fc afc freeway, two cruciate surgeries may limit his being bred?


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

FC AFC Cane is another.


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## hotel4dogs (Aug 2, 2010)

like 



Hunt'EmUp said:


> I'm not really sure the carrier debate is the end all in why some dogs get bred a lot and why some dogs don't. I think the real end all is with the stud owners, some are very good at promoting their stud for breeding; some don't seem to care if their studs get breedings or not. Some owners are also very particular on who and how many breeding their stud will have, per year, etc; and when they'll allow a breeding to take place. Some don't want any distractions while their campaigning. Studing a dog unless it's frozen and a clinic takes care of everything is a major PITA; even then you have to deal with the females owner, who really likes countless probing-fishing phone-calls . If not frozen the dog has to go in to be collected for AI, or stud owner has to take on the responsibility of a female. .


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

fc afc ozzie is another.


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## sapitrucha (Dec 17, 2011)

Zoom is another!!


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## Waterdogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Weezer, I liked watching him and Bob run.


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