# Ed, Is the SCRA a secret?



## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

No wonder Ed has been quite on the some of these threads.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

How could it be a secret if everyone knows about it? :?


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## W Knight (Sep 2, 2003)

Gerard

What is S C R A :?: :?: :?: 

white knight


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## W Knight (Sep 2, 2003)

Gerard

What is S C R A :?: :?: :?: 

white knight


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

And why or how is he being "quite" on it?

Jerry


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

the South Central Retriever Association is definitely not a secret

through the efforts of Bill Speck and Michael Liosis of the American Kennel Club we have jointly formed the SCRA which is in effect a club of clubs.

We hope that all the clubs on the Texas, Oklahoma, & Louisiana circuit will join the SCRA.

Our initial function will be to allow new clubs or individuals who have organized a field trial (like the Central Texas Retriever Club) to hold events under our auspices using our club number, thereby bypassing the laborious task of fulfilling AKC requirements for new clubs. Ultimately we hope to expand our influence to help manage our circuit better. Nothing we do will have any effect on any existing clubs or events. 

We are in the process of writing by-laws and establishing dues for the association

Officers for 2006 will serve one year, then member clubs will vote on a slate of officers to serve 3 year terms

President - Ed Aycock
1st Vice President - Jim Cope
2nd Vice president - Jan Schrader
Secretary/treasurer - Ed Fullerton
Board Members at large - John Russell and Scott Carruth

we will not be sufficiently organized to get the Central Texas Retriever Club event up and running this spring, but they will be able to hold an event this year if they choose to

you will hear more in the future 

this is really really cool!!!!! we have in essence been granted breed club status 8) 8) 8) 8)


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Is there anything we can do to help? Like, for example, suggest to our local club that they join, join ourselves, etc?
Charles


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

I didn't want to put this into out until the Texas folks got their organization formed. Here's the basic information with regard to the formation of retriever FT associations:



> Aim: Develop a mechanism whereby Retriever field trial enthusiasts can find more trials to enter and, at the same time, ease the burden on existing Retriever clubs whose events have grown unmanageably large.
> 
> 
> Solution: Approve regional or state-wide Retriever Field Trial Associations. This will not require the holding of sanctioned trials or ?mentored? license field trials, or the submission of membership lists, bylaws, and lists of activities or documentation of members? long term experience. The Associations would be given AKC club numbers so that events could be approved and results processed.
> ...


That positive feedback resulted in the formation of the SCRA. How's that for the AKC being proactive? :wink: !

kg


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

In!


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

I wonder if the AKC rules regarding the number of events a club can host apply to such associations? (i.e. how many trials per year can use the association's club number?)

Is the sole purpose of the association to ease the process of clubs getting started or will the association also put on trials not associated with new clubs?

When a fledgling club puts on their intial trials using the association's club number, how does the process differ from the "mentoring" program that was announced in the fall?

What does the fledgling club have to do before they will be approved to go on their own?

Jeff


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Your the man, pure genius, much appreciated and let me know if I can help.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

jeff t. said:


> I wonder if the AKC rules regarding the number of events a club can host apply to such associations? (i.e. how many trials per year can use the association's club number?)
> 
> Is the sole purpose of the association to ease the process of clubs getting started or will the association also put on trials not associated with new clubs?
> 
> ...


1. there was no discussion as to the number of events, the primary limitation is/will be conducive weather, pre-existing events, and individuals interested in putting on an event

2. the primary purpose is to allow interested and qualified individuals the opportunity to host a field trial without forming a new club

3. new events could be hosted by a new club or the association could host one or more events

4. any club which chooses AKC licensed club status will follow the same procedures that are currently in place, that is approval of by-laws, submission of membership for approval, hosting sanctioned events before final approval for hosting licensed events

if a new club only wished to hold 1 or 2 field trials per year there would be no reason for them to seek AKC licensed club status, they would merely hold their events under the auspices of SCRA

here's how it would work hypothetically........Jerry, White Knight, and Gerard decide that they would like to put on an additional field trial in Anderson Texas May 19-21 at the end of our spring circuit, they secure grounds, get judges, purchase the appropriate state licenses and permits, secure liability insurance and appoint a field trial committee, they then submit their proposal to SCRA for review, SCRA BOD reviews and approves their request, the information is filed with AKC using SCRA's club number, the appropriate fee is paid, and Performance Events approves the trial.

When and if the 200 mile rule is voted in SCRA would be able to allow interested parties to hold an event to conflict with one of our huge spring trials without the formation of a new club

additionally we plan to explore the possibility of SCRA securing liability insurance covering all of it's member clubs and events, perhaps workman's comp as well

if this association works to it's maximum the entire circuit will be pulling in the same direction rather than acting as separate entities, I think that everyone will ultimately benefit


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Ed, it's been many years since I was actively involved with a particular club but if there's anything you think I could do, just let me know.

I'm at your disposal.

Jerry


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

Ok Keith and Ed:

This is the one that I find interesting



> 4) The Association would determine when and where in the state to schedule field trials


Does that mean what I think it does? Pretty powerful sentence.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Gerard Rozas said:


> > 4) The Association would determine when and where in the state to schedule field trials
> 
> 
> Does that mean what I think it does? Pretty powerful sentence.


don't read too much into it, it is what I stated, and the Association can schedule field trial(s), that is the stated purpose, don't look for conspiracies, they don't exist

but read the part that says we have nothing to do with any existing club or event (or only to the extent that said club would want)


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

I don't know how you've interpreted that, Gerard, and I can't speak for how Ed will respond.

The way *I *take it is that these associations will work with existing clubs to use current locations when/where available, and perhaps (down the road) work to secure new grounds to use for new/competing trials that involve the associations.

As for the "when," the associations will exist to help current conflicting situations, not make them worse.

kg


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

potential South Central Retriever Association member clubs

1. North Texas Ret. Club (a done deal)
2. Bluebonnet Ret. Club 
3. Metro Alliance Ret. Club
4. Rose Country Ret. Club
5. Texas Panhandle Ret. Club
6. Wichita Falls Ret. Club
7. Lone Star Ret. Club
8. Piney Woods Ret. Club
9. Port Arthur Ret. Club
10. Alamo Ret. Club
11. Brazosport Ret. Club
12. Coastal Bend Ret. Club
13. Cimmaron Ret. Club
14. Tulsa Ret. club
15. Sooner Ret. Club
16. Shreveport Bossier Ret. Club
17. Ouachita Ret. Club
18. Acadiana Ret. Club
19. South Louisiana Ret. Club

did I miss anyone?....we want all of these clubs to be members, they will continue to have control of their own destiny, eventually new trials will come under the umbrella of SCRA and we can mutually benefit from the alliance (insurance, organization of our circuit, and.......???????)


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Ed said:


> jeff t. said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if the AKC rules regarding the number of events a club can host apply to such associations? (i.e. how many trials per year can use the association's club number?)
> ...


Thanks Ed,

So, if this idea takes off and there are clusters of retriever club associations or federations scattered across the country (maybe wishful thinking, maybe not), would there be any reason to start any new clubs?

Years ago, wasn't there a "Mid Atlantic Federation" of retriever clubs? I seem to recall a glossy publication they put out. It was mosty HT test clubs IIRC.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

jeff t. said:


> So, if this idea takes off and there are clusters of retriever club associations or federations scattered across the country (maybe wishful thinking, maybe not), would there be any reason to start any new clubs?


I guess that would depend on the club's goals, if they were loftier than holding a couple of field trials every year then it might be worth the agony of becoming a licensed or member club. 

if the goal is to hold a couple of field trials each year (and the powers that be do not disenfranchise the Association) I see no reason for a new organization to jump through the hoops to become a licensed or member club


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

Any thoughts about reviving James Parker's plan now that we have an organization to oversee it?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Gerard Rozas said:


> Any thoughts about reviving James Parker's plan now that we have an organization to oversee it?


I undertook the same futile effort in 1990, wrote letters to every club on the circuit outling a prospective spring schedule with conflicts for the first 4 weeks and the trials beginning in March with the Southern clubs being early, only 2 or 3 clubs had the courtesy to even respond to my proposal, so we (North Texas) moved our date from March to it's current place as the 3rd weekend in April

it won't happen without the existing club's approval, but in 2007 with the 200 mile rule in effect we can affect some changes, that should be one of our goals, to make our circuit in tune with what the majority want

if existing clubs still want to hold trials in February and early March when they are at the mercy of our fickle spring weather no one can change that, perhaps with a unified front and a good master plan we can improve what we have


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Ed said:


> Gerard Rozas said:
> 
> 
> > Any thoughts about reviving James Parker's plan now that we have an organization to oversee it?
> ...


Will the SCRA be able to force a date change on an event secretary/chairman?

SM


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Will the SCRA be able to force a date change on an event secretary/chairman?


you pooka beaded goofball, have you READ ANYTHING THAT I HAVE WRITTEN?

SCRA has no control over existing events......!!!!!!!!


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## justin harrison - gator (Jul 6, 2003)

Dr. Ed, my only question is this.....

there seems to have been some recent (read w/in the last year) of starting a FT club in the Jackson, MS area....

would/could a FT be held under the auspices of the SCRA if the jackson crew should so choose, sans FT club status?

sorry, you may have already explained this, but i'm tryin to keep up :wink: 

gator


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

gator said:


> would/could a FT be held under the auspices of the SCRA if the jackson crew should so choose, sans FT club status?


Well we do call ourselves the South Central Retriever Association 

and Mississippi is South and sorta Central and our function will be to do exactly that, so speaking as only one officer I would say yes 

heck I can drive to Jackson in about the same time that it takes me to drive to Amarillo or San Antonio

and I'll bet that there will be a Southeast Retriever Association or some such, maybe Ms, Al, Tn to do the same thing which would be more in line with what your neighboring circuits do


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## justin harrison - gator (Jul 6, 2003)

thanks!!!!!

gator


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Ed said:


> Shayne Mehringer said:
> 
> 
> > Will the SCRA be able to force a date change on an event secretary/chairman?
> ...


Please, like _*I*_ don't have the scoop... i was just asking for others.  

I've also retired the pooka shells and now sport a little leather number with a small cross on it.

SM


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Where did/does the RAC, a committee of all the trial giving clubs, and its subcommittee for rules, come into play, and if not why not ?
It would seem that this type of thing would somehow come under their purview.

Sounds like a cartel without much oversight to me, which in and of itself , except for the apparent lack of oversight, is not a bad thing but the potential to wield undue influence on it's own members and others is always a possibility.

Would it be good for these cartels to become a nationwide phenomenon, or would it so adversely effect the autonomy of the independent clubs that it would not ?

I suspect it would be the latter.

Back room deal regards,

john


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Ed said:


> heck I can drive to Jackson in about the same time that it takes me to drive to Amarillo or San Antonio


Jackson is having a tough time finding good FT grounds. If anyone knows of some good property in the Jackson area, contact RTFer Gene.

On another note, I would like to see more then 3 full trials a year in the Bonne Carre Spillway. The grounds look the best they ever have and SLRC will be expanding their area. With FEMA not extending many motel rooms, those should start opening up and hopefully, our Fall trial will be there. Right now, you could run 5 AA stakes at one time and not interfer with one another.


Not all the clubs within a 200 mile radius host 2 full trials a year. If this new organization gets going, would it be possible to fill those holes with the clubs that are already up and running or would you suggest new clubs to fill those holes?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

john fallon said:


> Where did/does the RAC, a committee of all the trial giving clubs, and its subcommittee for rules, come into play, and if not why not ?


the "if not" is that the Retriever Advisory Committee's mission is field trial rules and regulations, not clubs or club matters 

the "why not" is that clubs are the business of the AKC and in this instance specifically the Performance Events Department of AKC which was instrumental in drafting the guidelines

again, if you're looking for a conspiracy or you if you want to be a modern day Bob Woodward and uncover a "back room deal", you're barking up the wrong tree


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> Not all the clubs within a 200 mile radius host 2 full trials a year. If this new organization gets going, would it be possible to fill those holes with the clubs that are already up and running or would you suggest new clubs to fill those holes?


doesn't need to be a club, 3 or 4 people can do it, the aim is to provide more field trials without the 2 or 3 year delay that it takes a new club to be approved


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Ed said:


> john fallon said:
> 
> 
> > Where did/does the RAC, a committee of all the trial giving clubs, and its subcommittee for rules, come into play, and if not why not ?
> ...


Thats not what Pete Simmonds told the AKC Member Delagates


AKC Mtg.minutes said:


> The Chair recognized Marshall
> Simonds, Delegate for the Midwest
> Retriever Club, who spoke as follows:
> We have two rule changes for consideration
> ...


The "and so forth" would cover what we are discussing


Was he incorrect ?

If he was correct , the "WHY NOT" question stands unanswered.

john


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## W Knight (Sep 2, 2003)

Booty wrote:

*



I would like to see more then 3 full trials a year in the Bonne Carre Spillway.

Click to expand...

 *

*OF COURSE YOU WOULD BOOTY*

*White Knight*


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

john fallon said:


> Was he incorrect ?
> 
> If he was correct , the "WHY NOT" question stands unanswered.


perhaps you should call Pete and ask him

but even beyond that, why do you care?......

odd that no complaints have arisen from the circuit involved, only from you John :roll:


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

W Knight said:


> Booty wrote:
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Well, lets see Verdell, two of those trials had over 100 Open entries and the other over 80! So, if we can get one or two more trials with about 75 Open entries, what's your problem? The Al. State Cattle Ranch is having 5 full trials this year and that place doesn't have nearly the diversity of grounds or the large entries that the spillway gets.


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

Don't worry about the 'White Knit" Franco.

He is looking for the consperency in everything.

He assumes that a bunch of trials in the Spillway would play right into Smith's hands.

He thinks that the SCRA is out to squash the "little man" - who the hell is the "little man"?


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Gerard Rozas said:


> Don't worry about the 'White Knit" Franco.
> 
> He is looking for the consperency in everything.
> 
> ...


I hear ya! He's just aggrevating with, "I'm the littleman and everyone is out to get me BS"! 

Smith won three Opens last year on the road, none in the spillway. 
One of my training partners just acquired the old Acadiana trial grounds near Washington, La. A very nice and very usable 500 acres. They are currently adding more technical water and doing all-weather road work. 

Bobby, Larry and the rest of you Cajun-American FTers, how about this? Ed's got the ball rolling! Lets bring another trial to the spillway and another one to the Acadiana area!


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## Nik (Jul 8, 2005)

It sounds to me, and I may be totally wrong here, that the organization is making it far easier on a regional level to host conflicting trials without the drawbacks of AKC approval. I would not go as far as saying they are promoting conflicting trials, but rather trying to maintain managable numbers throughout the seasons in our region. Am I correct in assuming that this can lead to a centralization of resources including "umbrella" policies for necessaties such as insurance, equiptment, judging pools, volunteer help, grounds, ect... thus benefiting both the existing clubs and the individuals who wish to put on a trial without the complexity and down time of becoming an independent club. If so what is the time frame to have a fully functional region? Does the AKC view this as a pilot concept which they plan on marketing/enforcing to other regions? Will this parent organization have any influence or make any offers to host a national event under its own umbrella and encompassing the sum of its resources?


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

I could see a couple more in the Lake Charles area.

But I'd rather see one or two in the Austin area. Maybe one or two in the Bryan-College Station Area.

This opinion is simply because they would be a lot more convienient to ME!!!!

Jerry


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## B. A. (Feb 4, 2005)

Conceptually this sounds good, but I do wish AKC would be more transparent regarding the approval process for formation of regional associations.

What exactly is the step by step process for formation of an association?

What exactly will be the basis for approving or denying those associations?

What regional boundaries make the most sense? How wide an area can an association cover? 

For example, exactly what area comprises the range of the "South Central" Ret Assoc? 

What are the bare minimum requirements for formation? What happens if there is misconduct by the organizers of an event held under the umbrella of an association?

How many associations are desirable? How many are too many?

Surely someone at AKC is thinking through the policy implications of this rather than taking a "ready - shoot - aim" approach.

Please understand that I think this can be a good thing....I just think that everyone should have the details.

Why was this kept under wraps?


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Bob A. said:


> Conceptually this sounds good, but I do wish AKC would be more transparent regarding the approval process for formation of regional associations.
> 
> What exactly is the step by step process for formation of an association?
> 
> ...


I'd bet a six-pack that AKC can & will answer all your questions if you ask them.

Jerry


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## B. A. (Feb 4, 2005)

> I'd bet a six-pack that AKC can & will answer all your questions if you ask them.


Maybe so, but that is so 80s. And who would I call? The last time I tried to get an official opinion on a matter, I got a different response every time I called AKC performance on the person who happened to answer the phone.

If AKC is truly going to be proactive, they need to do it on the communications side as well.

It should be publically available on the AKC website.

Why should certain persons have the info (thank goodness Keith had some info to share) when others don't?


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

What Jerry said.....



> Please understand that I think this can be a good thing....I just think that everyone should have the details.


And they will, Bob....it's got to start somewhere. This one started in Texas due to the CTRC situation. You remember that part of this discussion, don't you? 



> Why was this kept under wraps?


The concept has existed for _three weeks_, Bob. The SCRA will be a week old *tomorrow*. Under wraps? _Under wraps_??? 

:roll: ................................................................................................

Patience is a virtue, Bob.....and perhaps someday, the FT world will have the same importance to the general public as the Dick Cheney situation......... :? ...........

You want more info? Contact Bill Speck at [email protected]. He'll more than likely give you the exact same info you've already found on this thread....'cause at this time, that's about all the info there is.

They've taken the first steps, Bob.......we're ahead of where we were. 



> Surely someone at AKC is thinking through the policy implications of this rather than taking a "ready - shoot - aim" approach.


And that's the reason why the info is coming out slowly....

Patience, grasshopper......


kg


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## B. A. (Feb 4, 2005)

When Ed said



> we will not be sufficiently organized to get the Central Texas Retriever Club event up and running this spring, but they will be able to hold an event this year if they choose to


Doesn't that mean that the immediacy regarding Central Texas had passed. 

If so, why not get all of the policy considerations out of the way up front.

Nuff said...it is what is


There really should be some public announcement from AKC on this. There is no reason that RTF should be talking about this for days before AKC gets it rolled out.

I'll wait for more...


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## El General (Aug 20, 2004)

> There really should be some public announcement from AKC on this. There is no reason that RTF should be talking about this for days before AKC gets it rolled out.


Maybe not . . .

But it sure is cool. 

Congratulations to all the gentleman that proactively put this together. It just makes one hell of a lotta sense.

Will Schwarzlose


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Ah, the field trial community amazes me, perhaps it is because of the personality type that is attracted to this sport. The AKC does something innovative that could ultimately benefit everyone, yet the nay sayers wish to find fault with something. They even want to look for a rules based way to challenge the innovators. 

Amazingly the nay sayers do not live in Texas, Louisiana, or Oklahoma. The opinions from that circuit have been uniformly positive as evidenced by people who have posted and peolpe who have PM'd me.

The nay sayers should adopt the optimist's approach of viewing the glass as half full, rather than the pessimist's of viewing it as half empty.

Many thanks to Chris for providing the ignore button and to North Mountain for reminding me to use it (Thanks Laura!)


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Did I mention that I'm in?
Whatever you need Mr. Pres, let me know.


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## tshuntin (Mar 22, 2003)

Ed, From briefly scanning through this thread the SCRA sounds like an awesome deal. I first hand know how difficult it is to start a new HT club. We recently did that and it was a ton of work, lots of ups and downs, a lot of determination, and many nay sayers that wanted to try to poke holes instead of get off their butt and help. 

We sure would of loved to have been able to form our club much much sooner than the three or whatever years it took us to finally run a licensed test. Great job! Travis

ps. I think the thing that impresses me the most is that AKC was so willing to work with you on this. Good Job AKC!!!!!


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

> There really should be some public announcement from AKC on this. There is _no reason_ that RTF should be talking about this for days before AKC gets it rolled out.


<in my best whisper....> Yeah......there _is_! :wink: 

It's right under your nose, Bob....you seem to be a pretty smart guy....think with the _creative_ side of your brain  !

Here's a hint: if you want _answers_ to a problem, you can't give the answer to the problem if you live _outside_ the problem....

kg


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## Bayou Magic (Feb 7, 2004)

Mr Booty said:


> Bobby, Larry and the rest of you Cajun-American FTers, how about this? Ed's got the ball rolling! Lets bring another trial to the *spillway and another one to the Acadiana area*!


Sounds great Franco. Let's have one of dem up heah in OK. We gots some purty good grouns up heah, too.

All kidding aside, this sounds like a step in the right direction. I'd like to know more...

Frank


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Bob A. said:


> Why should certain persons have the info (thank goodness Keith had some info to share) when others don't?


gee Bob, I don't even know you, I sure didn't know that we needed to consult you (and John) :roll:


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Ed, what sort of time element would be involved if a group decided to apply for a Trial through the Association? Same as any other application or could the Association expedite it?

Jerry


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Ed, are there meetings held for this committee? Do they serve wine spritzers during?

Actually, as a young aspiring FTer in the Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana circut, I really appreciate Ed, the committee, and Mr. Speck with AKC for coming up with something like this.

I don't care how it happens, more conflicting trials is always good. 

There are always folks who will try to shoot down an idea if it doesn't directly help them. 

In saying that, I am just thankful that people in Texas take a stand and are active enough to do something for our sport instead of sitting back a bitching about everything.

Although I find it hard to say, thanks old fart for keeping this sport alive for the dogs I have in the future.

By the way, get your butt out and train a little more so I can laugh at your back brace you sport. Just proves more and more you are the old fart I thought you were. :lol: 

Oh yeah, my dog needs frontline. :wink:


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## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Ed, what sort of time element would be involved if a group decided to apply for a Trial through the Association? Same as any other application or could the Association expedite it?
> 
> Jerry


Okay, Ed nice work, I appreciate the efforts of all involved.

So I have a NFRA club in NY and I'm interested in having the club become a AKC FT club..........................what do I need to do to make it happen with the AKC or SCRA........................ :?:


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## B. A. (Feb 4, 2005)

Ed said:


> Bob A. said:
> 
> 
> > Why should certain persons have the info (thank goodness Keith had some info to share) when others don't?
> ...


It isn't a matter of being consulted, just a desire that AKC keep everyone informed in real time rather than after the fact. 

Ed, Thank you for your efforts. I know that you are trying to be part of the solution, and I hope it works.

BA


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## justin harrison - gator (Jul 6, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Ed, what sort of time element would be involved if a group decided to apply for a Trial through the Association? Same as any other application or could the Association expedite it?
> 
> Jerry


i'm playing catchup today, but that was gonna be my next question.....gator


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## W Knight (Sep 2, 2003)

Gerard wrote:



> He thinks that the SCRA is out to squash the "little man" - who the hell is the "little man"?


Gerard...........Words have meaning.

When did you ever hear me say that or anything like it.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Bob A. said:


> It isn't a matter of being consulted, just a desire that AKC keep everyone informed in real time rather than after the fact.


SCRA has existed as an entity for 7 days


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## Nik (Jul 8, 2005)

This does sound great. And I think the timing is just right. We are having far too many 100+ AA stakes. Time runs short and the judges can not run the tests they planned. Ultimately it is the FT community which suffers. Maybe if we start having more competing trials Lonestar will use EE so I wont forget to send in my entry form like at the spillway, HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and Dr. Ed, Ken needs frontline


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Ed, are there meetings held for this committee?


if meetings were held the "cartel" wouldn't be secret :shock:


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Ed said:


> Ken Guthrie said:
> 
> 
> > Ed, are there meetings held for this committee?
> ...


cartel 2 : a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition ...........

Not a good word in this climate :wink: 

By the way, with the problems already facing existing trial giving clubs with obtaining qualified judges, where are all of the additional qualified 30 pointed judges that will be needed going to come from ?

Are you going to two step around the RAC question or you going to answer it ? Who was correct you or Mr Simonds

Devil's advocate regards,
john


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

To Ed and all the members of the SCRA you all can call yourselves the Cartel, Southern Mafia, etc. if you want and thank you all for willing to take the bull by the horns and fix our ongoing problems in OUR region. 

Exorcism regards 

Pat


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm not at all sure Pete Simonds knows about "The Associations."

Even so, this is an AKC thing, not an RAC thing, created by Performance Events with the approval of the COO. It's to help alleviate the "huge trial" or "needed trial" situations, not hurt them....... :? .............
.
I never imagined that there'd be so much negativity about a solution like this, designed to answer the call for more or conflicting trials to help solve the "huge Opens" problem.......  .............

Some people would complain if they were handed a glass of tap water after three days in the desert without, only because it didn't have crushed ice and a squeezed lemon in it...... :roll: 

:?.............

 ..................

:x ...................................


kg


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

john fallon said:


> cartel 2 : a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition ...........
> 
> Not a good word in this climate :wink:



your choice of the noun John, or have you already forgotten what wrote on page 2



john fallon said:


> Sounds like a cartel without much oversight to me,
> 
> 
> Would it be good for these cartels to become a nationwide phenomenon,



Have a wonderful weekend John, I have much better things to do than argue with you :shock:


----------



## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

> I'm not at all sure Pete Simonds knows about "The Associations."


Either way it's a slap in the face


> Even so, this is an AKC thing, not an RAC thing, created by Performance Events with the approval of the COO. It's to help alleviate the "huge trial" or "needed trial" situations, not hurt them....... .............


. 
What about the old adage that "WE, the trial giving clubs (RAC), not the AKC run the FT game".
Was that just a Bull Sh!t euphemism . :?: 



> I never imagined that there'd be so much negativity about a solution like this, designed to answer the call for more or conflicting trials to help solve the "huge Opens" problem....... .............


You are confusing wanting to know the facts, UNSPUN, and in real time with negativity



> Some people would complain if they were handed a glass of tap water after three days in the desert without, only because it didn't have crushed ice and a squeezed lemon in it......


Tap Water??? A Mud Puddle is more like what is being offered, at least by way of the quality of the answers thus far.

john


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm with Ed, John. I'm done with you and your....being _you_.....

E-mail Bill Speck at [email protected] if you want to hear it from the Big Dog's mouth.

I'd give you his phone number but I'll be in enough trouble as it is.....

kg


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

How does this "ignore" feature work?


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Hey Ed...

Look man, this is a super idea! It appears this is: well thoughtout; covers all the bases; creative; was constructed by intelligent people with first hand knowledge of the problem; comprised of people who are not afraid of work and know how to lead others; may actually solve a problem.

I regret to inform you it is doomed to failure...however, I hear FEMA is hiring so there may be hope for your skills yet.

Hey, just trying to be helpful...it's my nature you know.

Helpful Regards,

Helpy Helperson


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Ed said:


> john fallon said:
> 
> 
> > cartel 2 : a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition ...........
> ...



Just trying to be clear about the word not being a term of endearment.



*KG wrote:*


> I'm with Ed, John. I'm done with you and your....being you.....


I'll take that to mean that neither of you have any GOOD answers.



> E-mail Bill Speck at [email protected] if you want to hear it from the Big Dog's mouth.
> 
> *I'd give you his phone number *but I like him too much.....
> kg


I'll take that to mean that only the _BIG SHOTS _among us should have his phone number :wink: 

Already tired of the platitudes regards,
john


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

> I'll take that to mean that neither of you have any GOOD answers.


None that will suit _you_, apparently......



> I'll take that to mean that only the _BIG SHOTS_ among us should have his phone number


You can *find* his phone number too, John, if you're of a mind to....it's really not _that_ hard. If he wants to give it to you after you have *E-MAILED* him, then you'll have it.



> Already tired of the platitudes regards,


You don't read your own posts, do you John......... :? .........

kg


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Fallon,

Give it up dude. Why in the hell do you give a rats ass anyway? 

I know Ed and K G don't even what to waste their breath any longer trying to explain stuff to you but I would love to waste my time kicking you right in the teeth to shut you up.

:wink: :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

john fallon said:


> *KG wrote:*
> 
> 
> > I'm with Ed, John. I'm done with you and your....being you.....
> ...


1. Means that if we all say it's GREAT, you'd say it's BAD - just because you are _you_ ... i think we should all say its BAD so that Fallon will argue for it being GREAT.

2. I have Speck's direct line and cell # on speed dial... so that pretty much kills your "BIG SHOTS" theory.

Shayne


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Fallon,
> 
> Give it up dude. Why in the hell do you give a rats ass anyway?
> 
> ...


Why don't you put all of the cards on the table for them "just to shut me up"
BTW Did you ever pay KG that "visit" you promised him. :wink: :wink:

9mm regards :wink: 
john


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Fallon,

You goof ball. I wouldn't waste my time with a light weight like you.

You are like a flea on a dog. Always bugging wanting everyone to scratch.

Hey Ed, did I mention I need frontline. :lol: :lol:


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Fallon,
> 
> You goof ball. I wouldn't waste my time with a light weight like you.
> 
> ...


Ya know Ken,
It's a shame that youth is wasted on the young .
john


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

JF= the kid who kicks the cat for attention.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Whats a shame Fallon is that you actually think people care what you write about on here.

I don't know who you are or what you do or what you have done, but I do know the majority of the posters on this forum think you should get life besides finding fault in everything.

Basically saying, I don't give a damn what you think. :wink: 

Youth Regards,

Ken Guthrie


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## Chad H (Jun 25, 2004)

Ken, you are cracking me up here. I really do wish that John would just go hang out at the 'fuge.... where all the sophomores spend their time. It is a great place to argue with high schoolers who don't know any better, and he could have it his way and "always be right".


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Ed, what sort of time element would be involved if a group decided to apply for a Trial through the Association? Same as any other application or could the Association expedite it?


not much different, SCRA is just an administrative tool, not a governing body, not an entity designed to ride roughshod on the circuit

we have not yet written by-laws, haven't decided how the membership is to composed, dues, manner of election of officers, etc.

when we are fully organized we will post everything pertinent, hopefully our efforts and experiences will make the road for future associations smoother

ultimately the association may provide great benefits for our circuit, for now it is a means for CTRC and Red River RC to hold licensed events sooner rather than later


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Then it sounds to me as though now would not be too soon to start getting all one's ducks in a row for a conflicting Trial(s) for next year.

Is that a fair assumption?

Jerry


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Then it sounds to me as though now would not be too soon to start getting all one's ducks in a row for a conflicting Trial(s) for next year.Is that a fair assumption?


probably, particularly as it pertains to judges, after all John decided that we needed "30 new pointed judges"......don't know where that figure came from though :? 

at best we'll probably only be adding 2 more trials on our circuit, unfortunately we're losing one this spring......

Lone Star, which has had the same date for about 50 years, moved their spring trial to new grounds which fell into the geographic realm of a new club (Central Arkansas) and a conflict created when Cimmaron decided to avoid Easter weekend and move to Lone Star's date, in essence we have sacrificed a 60 year old club for a new one holding it's first trial and a club moving their trial because of Easter 

now if the 200 mile rule were in effect it wouldn't matter, but that does not take effect until January 2007

reliable sources have informed me that there is "more to the story than I know" but this is as it was presented to me

for me it's OK because I won't have to judge that weekend and if I choose I can go run my dog at Cimarron 8) 

for The White Knight, well it leaves kind of a bad taste in his mouth


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Who owned the property that John Parker and East Texas RC used?

Jerry


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Who owned the property that John Parker and East Texas RC used?


I think Mr. Water was well connected to the money crowd in E. Texas

BTW he was appointed to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission in 2004, so the story goes (Dallas Morning News Jan 29,2006 p.23C), our old friend John organized the first fund raising DU banquet ever held in Lufkin Texas in 1966

some of the land belonged to a timber company which was owned by Time Inc., at the time the CEO of Time Inc. was an East Texas native, (his name escapes me right now), and some was privately owned, John had a clothing store in Lufkin and he knew the right people

my most vivid recollection of the 1984 National when I was chairman of the Steward's Committee was arriving at the gate for the 7th series (which was locked) and the Chief Marshall Swede Anderson did not have a key, so my buddy Gordon Perry (who was Chairman of bird throwers) and I took things into our own hands and secured an Oklahoma Universal Key (a bolt cutter) and we cut the chain so the National could proceed 8)

no one ever realized that Gordon and I saved the National with an illegal entry


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

LOL, "just git er done!!!!!"

Jerry


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## El General (Aug 20, 2004)

> Oklahoma Universal Key (a bolt cutter)


I like that. My old man calls a cutter a South Texas Quail Lease Key.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

If, for nothing else but to maintain, at least to the extent that we have here to fore enjoyed, the hallowed tradition of self governing by the field trial community in toto, is this proposal going to require a national vote ?

Tsunami effect regards,
john


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

El General said:


> > Oklahoma Universal Key (a bolt cutter)
> 
> 
> I like that. My old man calls a cutter a South Texas Quail Lease Key.


Every good oil and gas man in Oklahoma has a pair of bolt cutters in their truck.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Who owned the property that John Parker and East Texas RC used?
> 
> Jerry


John Parker, y'all dragging up names from the past! He once ran a Derby Golden (Kiowa II x Cheif DSands bitch)for me one Summer on the Rocky Mountain circuit back around 1980.

How many Nationals did John win? :wink: :wink: :?


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Who owned the property that John Parker and East Texas RC used?
> 
> Jerry


John Parker, y'all dragging up names from the past! He once ran a Derby Golden (Kiowa II x Cheif Sands bitch)for me one Summer on the Rocky Mountain circuit back around 1980.

How many Nationals did John win? :wink: :wink: :?


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Jerry said:


> Who owned the property that John Parker and East Texas RC used?
> 
> Jerry


John Parker, y'all dragging up names from the past! He once ran a Derby Golden (Kiowa II x Cheif Sands bitch)for me one Summer on the Rocky Mountain circuit back around 1980.

How many Nationals did John win? :wink: :wink: :?


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> How many Nationals did John win? :wink: :wink: :?


Your emoticons not withstanding, As many as most who post.

You missed your chance yesterday when I believe to the extent necessary to post I was fully vetted and minimally cleared. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

It is national with a small n

john


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Actuall we were talking about another John. The one Ed and Jerry mentioned! 8)


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> Actuall we were talking about another John. The one Ed and Jerry mentioned! 8)


ask him (not John Parker) if he can he spell egocentric


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

.....and if a title or proper name of an event or title is to be capitalized....

kg


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

And I think that since the word "national" is used as a proper noun, much like John, the spelling National is proper.

But I ain't no English teacher.

but I still know that a preposition is anything a bird can do to a tree!!!

Jerry


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## BillyA (Oct 29, 2003)

Blue State vs Red State??? Geez!!! GREAT JOB ED!


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## BillyA (Oct 29, 2003)

Blue State vs Red State??? Geez!!! 

Great job to the New BOD and to Bill Spec and the AKC for not only being pro active, but creative as well!

Oh and Ed, Ken needs some Frontline.


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## justin harrison - gator (Jul 6, 2003)

jerry, i thought it was anything a "squirrel can do to a log"....

gator


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Don't think I ever saw a squirrel in the mesquites of West Texas, but that will work also.

Jerry


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## justin harrison - gator (Jul 6, 2003)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

forgot about the "regional differences"....gator


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

How about...

Anything a Gator can do to whatever the hell it wants!!!???

Jerry


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## justin harrison - gator (Jul 6, 2003)

Jerry said:


> How about...
> 
> Anything a Gator can do to whatever the hell it wants!!!???
> 
> Jerry


a nurse just saw that and ran outta the office screaming.......... :lol: :lol: 

i like it tho, hehe

gator


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Ya gotta go catch her and tell her the difference between preposition and proposition!!!

GOOBER!!!

Jerry


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## justin harrison - gator (Jul 6, 2003)

bwahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaha

gator


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> Actuall we were talking about another John. The one Ed and Jerry mentioned! 8)


Sorry Mr. B,
I was just a little quick on the draw after the weekend. :lol: 

john

BTW kg, the small n I was referring to was the n in ,"is this going to require a national vote :?: "......................
which like most of the "tough questions" posed has *noticeably* gone unanswered.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

The "n" you made reference to is from your own post, which no one, that I can see, questioned. Why bring it up?

Jerry


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Jerry said:


> The "n" you made reference to is from your own post, which no one, that I can see, questioned. *Why bring it up?*
> 
> Jerry


I brought it up as clarification of the n I was referring to when I *mistakenly* thought Mr B. was using_ a play on words_

A better question is, why you and kg felt compelled to comment at all since both Ed and Mr. B are more than able to take care of themself ?

john


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

john fallon wrote:



> BTW kg, the small n I was referring to was the n in ,"is this going to require a national vote :?: "




Hmmmm.....let's see what was _actually_ referred to in Booty's post.....




> Mr Booty wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So much for _that_ diversion.......

And John, the questions you call "tough," I have other words for that I won't post here. 

BTW, my absence from the now-in-oblivion thread dedicated to you this past weekend was by choice, as will be my absence from most all future threads that you choose to be involved with. The point of diminishing return has been reached...... 

And I'm hardly amazed that you chose _not_ to reply to Ed's "egocentric" comment. I commented _after_ that, John..... :roll:....you are a piece of work, to be sure.....

Over it regards, 

kg....and by the way.....it's "themselves"......... :? ............._dang_ those pesky conjunctions and plurals......


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

john fallon said:


> Jerry said:
> 
> 
> > The "n" you made reference to is from your own post, which no one, that I can see, questioned. *Why bring it up?*
> ...


I suppose the correct answer is "NONE OF YOUR &$%^ing Business WHY I posted. Except to get the opportunity to tell you, AGAIN, you screwed up!!!!!

It's "themselves", plural not singular. And you didn't ask a question, you made a statement that included a question. End it with a period.

Now I feel better.

Jerry


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

K G said:


> ...as will be my absence from most all future threads that you choose to be involved with. .....


..........and thats a bad thing ?

john


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Jerry, 
Cognitive reading 101 should be in your future.
The question was why you felt compelled not why you posted, but I'm sure glad that you feel better.
BTW themselves is not the *plural* for themself since there is no such word additionally kg themselves is a *pronoun* :lol: .......and that's called a gotcha :wink: 

Watch your p's and q's regards :lol: 
john


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Fallon,
> 
> Give it up dude. Why in the hell do you give a rats ass anyway?
> 
> ...



I find this over the top. Disagreeing, name calling, bumping chests is one thing. Threatening actually physical violence is not what I come to this board for. John F is certainly out there with his idea?s, and no doubt controversial. Trust me, I don?t agree with him very often, and have had my headbutting sessions with him. But I don?t remember signing anything when I joined this board stating I had to agree with everyone else here. I don?t believe I should have to worry about posting my views, thoughts or disagreements with the thought someone is going to show and up do me or my family physical harm. Chris and Vicki have asked enough times that verbal abuse be held to a minimum, I?m pretty sure physical threats would apply to that as well.

/Paul


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## Len (Jan 21, 2003)

Since Ken is in Texas and john is in Pennsylvania, there is actually very little "threat" of anything. Also, the emoticons used at the end of the post in question likely indicate that Ken is jesting, although john is prone to bring those type of emotions out from time to time.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Len said:


> Since Ken is in Texas and john is in Pennsylvania, there is actually very little "threat" of anything. Also, the emoticons used at the end of the post in question likely indicate that Ken is jesting, although john is prone to bring those type of emotions out from time to time.


Doesn?t matter. Distance doesn?t mean a thing. Guthrie threatened an old man in public. Shouldn?t be tolerated.

/Paul


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## Lisa Van Loo (Jan 7, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Len said:
> 
> 
> > Since Ken is in Texas and john is in Pennsylvania, there is actually very little "threat" of anything. Also, the emoticons used at the end of the post in question likely indicate that Ken is jesting, although john is prone to bring those type of emotions out from time to time.
> ...


I kind of agree. As RTF's Official Resident Curmudgeon, John's duty is to poke at everything. He wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't.

Lisa


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

I personally think Fallon could take Ken's weak ass anyway so its not that big of a threat. :lol:


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Paul, Russ, Lisa, Len, et alia, and the others who PMed me or positively posted on the deleted thread.

Thanks for the outrage on my behalf, and more so on  the behalf of the forum in general. 

You are correct in that that type of thing is not in the best interest of the forum.

What Ken did was a function of his being young, but, in fairness to him, he expressed the recognition of this fact and asked to move on in a later post on that thread....... something that I more than gladly did.

Still moving regards,
john


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

John, just to be clear. I do not want to be seen as on "your side" in this subject...but I do think you could kick Kens weak ass! :lol:


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Actually, making a phisical threat is pretty weak. In litteral words, it was a physical threat. In practical words, it was another way for me to say "shut the hell up."

The last time I had physical confrontation with anyone was my brother back when I was 13. 

If someone here thinks I actually get my kicks suggesting I would physically harm someone, well let's just say you don't know me very well.

Although, there are times when I wish I could use force, it would be hard for me to think of a reason for me to use physical force to prove a point. Unless they were harming my mom, wife, child, or Jerry's wimmen.

In conclussion, when I write anything that suggests physical confrontation, it is basically another way of saying what I would like to do rather what I will do. Either way, I will try not to put my feelings in writing like that anymore.

Unless, of coarse, I get really mad again. :lol: :lol: 

Sorry if I offended anyone, but sometimes I do that. :wink:


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Oh, and Russ, shut up before I kick your a$$.


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## Chad H (Jun 25, 2004)

Ken, 

A little BACK, burn, BACK never hurt anyone. A good FTP does wonders for a bad attitude. :lol:


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## Bob Rehmet (Nov 25, 2003)

Ken Guthrie is a dangerous psychopath and possibly a serial killer. His present name is an attempt to shield his real identity from the FBI, CIA, Interpol, Al-Queda and the IRS. Boy, did this thread get hijacked.

I'm fairly new to the game, but it looks like Dr. Aycock and others are on the right course. I hope this works out well.


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## Len (Jan 21, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Doesn?t matter. Distance doesn?t mean a thing. Guthrie threatened an old man in public. Shouldn?t be tolerated.
> 
> /Paul


 :roll: 
Lighten up

Len


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Oh, and Russ, shut up before I kick your a$$.


I'll be at Metro in a few weeks, prepare well cricket...you'll need it.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

achiro said:


> Ken Guthrie said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and Russ, shut up before I kick your a$$.
> ...


Wow, you get a chessie now you think your tough.

Chirp, Chirp says the cricket. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

I'll do my best to keep him reigned in, Ken! :wink: !

kg


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

achiro said:


> I'll be at Metro in a few weeks, prepare well cricket...you'll need it.


Cricket is game played where everyone is out until they are in, then they get over as many times as they can and go out again...

Rugby is a game played by men with odd shaped balls...

Flat Bat Regards,

Joe S.


----------



## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)




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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Anything working out on this Ed?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

achiro said:


> Anything working out on this Ed?


It has apparently died a slow and painless death due to apathy and lack of a mission, this should make the conspiracy theorists happy, eh?


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

EdA said:


> achiro said:
> 
> 
> > Anything working out on this Ed?
> ...


That's unfortunate. I thought it sounded like a good idea.


----------



## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

EdA said:


> achiro said:
> 
> 
> > Anything working out on this Ed?
> ...


A few conflicting trials and some decent numbers at many trials last year are probably the biggest culprit. If the numbers start going up again the apathy may disappear. :wink:


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

EdA said:


> achiro said:
> 
> 
> > Anything working out on this Ed?
> ...



Falls under the heading "no good deed goes unpunished" :wink:


----------



## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

How did I miss this :? 

john


----------



## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

john fallon said:


> How did I miss this :?
> 
> john


You went out to buy milk & bandanas.

M


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Miriam Wade said:


> john fallon said:
> 
> 
> > How did I miss this :?
> ...


And got sidetracked trying to decide which medicine to buy, Yohimbine, Caverject, Phentolamine or Sildenafil. 

/Paul


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Miriam Wade said:
> 
> 
> > john fallon said:
> ...


/Paul,
You seem to know entirely too much about that kind of stuff for a young man :lol: :lol: :lol: 

john


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

I appaud Ed's efforts in trying to make this area's trials more managable, especially in the Winter months. I'll be in touch to see which dates would be the most beneficial to this end when applying for Winter/Spring dates for the new Big O Field Trial Club(Ouachita Club).


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

john fallon said:


> Gun_Dog2002 said:
> 
> 
> > Miriam Wade said:
> ...


Well today I turn 38 and I figured I better start reading up on that sort of thing. Gonna need it in 20 years or so...

/Paul


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Well today I turn 38 and I figured I better start reading up on that sort of thing. Gonna need it in 20 years or so...
> 
> /Paul


Happy Birthday, /Paul!  

Birthday cake or lime jello?? :wink: 

Andy


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Andy Carlson said:


> Gun_Dog2002 said:
> 
> 
> > Well today I turn 38 and I figured I better start reading up on that sort of thing. Gonna need it in 20 years or so...
> ...


Green Jello and fresh silver bullet...

/Paul


----------

