# NRC Coverage



## JKOttman

The description of the test is up on Retriever News' Working Retriever Central:
* The Retriever Report (http://www.working-retriever.com/09nrc/report/) 
* Vickie's Lamb's wonderful posts and photos on Retriever Blog (http://www.working-retriever.com/09nrc/blog/index.html). 
* Realtime updates plus Callbacks (http://www.working-retriever.com/09nrc/callbacks/index.html).


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## FOM

First is an interrupted double. Sorry picture isn't too good. But left hand bird is approximately 240 yards thrown L to R and the flier (easier to see) is at approximately 110 yards thrown Lto R (out of the picture) and the blind is up the middle at apprximatey 175.


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## FOM

Administrative note: this thread is now a sticky, let's try and limit the number of new threads on the NRC please....

Thanks,

FOM


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## Bubba

It's the first time we've seen it in five days!"... 


...says Judge Joe Broyles of the sun, which appeared during the running of Pirate, #51


I'm calling that an omen!!!!

Superstitious regards

Bubba


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## AmiableLabs

Vickie appears to be taking her blog very seriously.

Outstanding job.


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## Lynn Moore

Thank-you Vickie Lamb!!! Outstanding job, as usual.


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## FOM

Lynn Moore said:


> Thank-you Vickie Lamb!!! Outstanding job, as usual.


Very good indeed! Loving the photos!


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B

Did they have "callbacks" yet?


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## FOM

Yes, my list is updated! 

Dog lost: 12, 14, 21, 44, 64, 80, 84


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B

Lainee I knew I could depend on you. like a dummy I did not look at your list..............


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## Vicky Trainor

Just a few photos I took while at the National Open today.









Will at the welcome sign









Danny Farmer with 19 FC Candlewood's Rammin Catcher










"Just hangin' out"









Dave Rorem with 15 AFC Landover's Right On Target









View toward line from gallery for Series # 1 & 2









13 FC Adams Acres Water Lilly


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## dogcommand

Lainee

I just looked at your "2009 National Summary" and see that it is updated to show call backs etc. Thanks it is very nicely done.
I didn't realize that you were going to be doing that and wonder if you should perhaps change the title to reflect that you are updating by series. I thought that it was just a static list of qualifiers.


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## FOM

dogcommand said:


> Lainee
> 
> I just looked at your "2009 National Summary" and see that it is updated to show call backs etc. Thanks it is very nicely done.
> I didn't realize that you were going to be doing that and wonder if you should perhaps change the title to reflect that you are updating by series. I thought that it was just a static list of qualifiers.


Good idea! Done!


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## Vicky Trainor

More of the photos I took on Monday:









Dave Rorem with 15 AFC Landover's Right On Target










Dan Heard with 14 FC-AFC Taylorlab Downtown Dusty Brown









Charlie Hayden with 18 FC-AFC Lil Mac's Black River Rabbit MH 
(Katie Gutermuth standing next to him)









Will, Jeff Lyons of Rebel Ridge Retrievers & Tony Hunt


















20 FC-AFC Wood River's Franchise (in the forefront)
23 FC-AFC Shadow Warrior VII
24 FC Bayou Teche Tex
(in or at the holding blind)


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## boo8mer

Is anyone else having issues opening any of the www.working-retriever.com pages today? I can't get any of them to open...


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## Chris Atkinson

Here is a cool slideshow of NRC photos, provided by an RTF'er.

Chris

NRC Photo Slideshow


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## fowlweather

i'm having the same problem as well.


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## Brandoned

boo8mer said:


> Is anyone else having issues opening any of the www.working-retriever.com pages today? I can't get any of them to open...


Same here!!


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## Lady Duck Hunter

I was in earlier but for about the last hour or so I can't get back in.


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## Juli H

me too...can't open any of them.

Juli


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## Vickie Lamb

Hello all--

The server is down and was reported within scant minutes. They are working on it... But that is the problem... Thanks 

p.s. and thanks very much for the wonderful comments on the Blog


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## Lady Duck Hunter

Vickie, y'all are doing a great job! We are enjoying the experience from afar.


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## Mark Koenig

The server has been repaired and the blog and report are once again available. Sorry for any inconvenience.


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## FOM

Latest tid-bit I got was the dogs are doing the test as of late in some form or fashion....


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## Jacob Hawkes

How did Cash do? Says "In the clubhouse.".


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## FOM

Jacob Hawkes said:


> How did Cash do? Says "In the clubhouse.".


It would mean that he did the series....


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## Vicky Trainor

3rd series those that have had to handle so far : 68,75,76,78,79,81,89


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## FOM

Vicky Trainor said:


> 3rd series those that have had to handle so far : 68,75,76,78,79,81,89


With 81 ending up being a pick up....


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## Vicky Trainor

FOM said:


> With 81 ending up being a pick up....


Oops...sorry, didn't get that from my contact that is there today.


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## Juli H

Vickie, thanks so much for your updates of the dogs and the series as they progress...

Juli


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## paul young

did they finish the series, or are there still dogs to run in the morning?-Paul


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## FOM

paul young said:


> did they finish the series, or are there still dogs to run in the morning?-Paul


I updated the summary thread at the top of the forum - yes they are done for the day....dog #23 will start in the morning...

Edit: I corrected the starting dog #, sorry about the confussion!


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## Franco

I just spoke with dog #24, he's already feeding and runs the 3rd early in the monring.


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## goldngirl

Anyone know callback #'s today?


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## Vicky Trainor

goldngirl said:


> Anyone know callback #'s today?


They don't normally give partial callbacks at the Nationals.


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## FOM

It was stated early on that no partial callbacks will be given....


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## FOM

Chris Atkinson said:


> Here is a cool slideshow of NRC photos, provided by an RTF'er.
> 
> Chris
> 
> NRC Photo Slideshow


If you haven't looked it this - totally amazing! There are dogs in there I would of never seen if it weren't for the photos. Very nice tribute to those dogs in my opinion!

FOM


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## Breck

OK, 23 starts in the AM. 
Does that mean all of the dogs from the starter to #23 have run the 3rd?
There hasn't been mention of a few dogs that ran just before they shut down. Any one know how Bunny, Shaq and Zoom did in the 3rd?
Thanks


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## Bait

Chris Atkinson said:


> Here is a cool slideshow of NRC photos, provided by an RTF'er.
> 
> Chris
> 
> NRC Photo Slideshow


Good stuff, Jeff!


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## Mark Rosenblum

Breck said:


> OK, 23 starts in the AM.
> Does that mean all of the dogs from the starter to #23 have run the 3rd?
> There hasn't been mention of a few dogs that ran just before they shut down. Any one know how Bunny, Shaq and Zoom did in the 3rd?
> Thanks


Hey Breck- just getting in from eating crab- all 3 dogs you mentioned completed the test


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## scott spalding

It is another nice morning just a little cooler than yesterday. The first dog is just headed to the line.
________
VERMONT MEDICAL MARIJUANA


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## Chris Atkinson

Mark Rosenblum said:


> Hey Breck- just getting in from eating crab- all 3 dogs you mentioned completed the test


Mark, Thanks for continuing to keep RTF's readers in the loop. It's good that this thread is sprinkled with links over to the News' further coverage, Vicky's blog, etc.

It's great that the retriever community can get this sort of feedback on the sport they love so much. I'm glad that RTF can help maintain its true purpose in the retriever community and play a part in helping dog fans get dog info.

Chris


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## Jason Bauer

Hey Vicki- Spectacular job on keeping us updated! I'm sure many feel as I do that your insight and observation lets us all get a glimpse of how things are going. Many thanks!!! One question I haven't heard mention of Shaq, I see he doesn't have any handles, but has he been ho-hum or workmanlike. He leads all vote getters in the pick-um and he is my12 month olds daddy so any info would be appreciated. Thanks again on all you hard work!


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## cotts135

Just returned from NRC and had a great time, meet some wonderful people and seen some amazing dogs. This was my first National I certainly hope it is not my last.
From what I seen at Sundays running my thought was that Dog #15 AFC Landovers Right on Target (Aero) might have had the best run of what I seen.
(Dog#'s 58-34) The difficulty in that set up was the memory mark. Alot of dogs seem to be drawn off to the left and some ran long The bird seemed to be thrown about 15 yds into some low brush and Aero was the only dog I seen that ran directly into that brush.

The difficulty in Mondays series was the long retired mark across water that had an angled entry and was tight to the thrown mark on the left. It was directly downwind and as the day went on the reflection from the water seemed to get worse. I am not sure what the handlers and dogs saw from the line though as the gallery was behind and to the left of the line. There was a large clump of reed grass to the right of where the bird was thrown and almost every dog squared that off and then ran up onto dry ground where it appears that they had to come upon the retired guns. Some dogs ran long and had to be handled but the majority came around to the left and found the bird. One dog went way to the left while in the water and had to be handled.(79 FC-AFC Cut A Lean Grade (Grady) ) Dogs 77 FC-AFC Bayou Star Beyond Independent (Tia) 87 FC Candelwoods Man In Black (Cash) had very good runs on these marks. Dog 88 FC-NAFTCH-FTCH L and L Black Tie Affair (Tie) had what I thought was the best line to that mark coming out about 5 yards to the right of the thrown bird. I only seen dogs 62- 89 run don't know what happened after that.


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## AmiableLabs

Chris Atkinson said:


> Mark, Thanks for continuing to keep RTF's readers in the loop. It's good that this thread is sprinkled with links over to the News' further coverage, Vicky's blog, etc. It's great that the retriever community can get this sort of feedback on the sport they love so much.


The coverage this year has been exceptional.

Toss in Jeff's slideshows, and it beats anything the AKC ever gave us.


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## Dogtrainer4God

Does anyone know how #50 Drake has been running? We need another chocolate NFC.


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## FOM

Rumor is next series is a water blind, they should be done around 2:00ish with the 3rd series....


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## WRL

Dogtrainer4God said:


> Does anyone know how #50 Drake has been running? We need another chocolate NFC.


Look at post 41. That's your inside scoop to Drake.

WRL


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## scott spalding

There has been lots of very nice work at this point. We are very happy to be lucky enough to be here.
________
Cleaning vapor buddy


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## Joe Dutro

Good luck Scott. The boys are cheering for Dad
Joe


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## paul young

HAS THE 3RD CONCLUDED? if so, have they announced call backs?
thanks, Paul


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## ErinsEdge

paul young said:


> HAS THE 3RD CONCLUDED? if so, have they announced call backs?
> thanks, Paul


I was told 2pm or a little later.


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## FOM

Looks like RTFer Jeff T. and Sinner did the 3rd series! Yippeee....


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## FOM

FYI - they are on dog #61....getting close to being done with the 3rd....now we wait for callbacks...


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## Ken Guthrie

AmiableLabs said:


> and it beats anything the AKC ever gave us.


Yeah, AKC is the devil.


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## Breck

If they end up running the 4th Series Water Blind at Steve Zilli's this is it.
It's basically 200 yds x 100 yds and slightly elevated around the perimeter.

Zilli's Pond


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## FOM

* image provided via google maps and a screen shot


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## AmiableLabs

Here is a link to Jeff's slideshow for day 2 at the National -- 

http://jeffgoodwin.com/National/NationalDay2/


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## MardiGras

wow -- great slide shows!!
Thanks for putting them together and sharing them!


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## awclark

Outstanding work, Jeff. The slideshows are greatly appreciated.


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## Brad Slaybaugh

callbacks for the 3rd are posted on the callbacks page
Brad


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## EdA

that's a pretty healthy cut for this early in the National


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## AmiableLabs

EdA said:


> that's a pretty healthy cut for this early in the National


It appears they are only carrying three dogs with handles. That is probably relevant.


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## FOM

AmiableLabs said:


> It appears they are only carrying three dogs with handles. That is probably relevant.


How so? 

Curious Regards,

FOM


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## AmiableLabs

FOM said:


> How so?


I think I was unclear.

What I meant to say is the small number of handles still playing can often mean other things, ie. judges dropping dogs for big hunts.

Of course, I am not there, so have no clue what is the reality. I am just speculating.


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## FOM

AmiableLabs said:


> I think I was unclear.
> 
> What I meant to say is the small number of handles still playing can often mean other things, ie. judges dropping dogs for big hunts.
> 
> Of course, I am not there, so have no clue what is the reality. I am just speculating.


I hear ya, thought maybe you had some other insight....

Looks like the judges are in full control....


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## EdA

FOM said:


> I hear ya, thought maybe you had some other insight....
> 
> Looks like the judges are in full control....


but can they maintain the same standard for 7 series and still have any dogs left?

looks like 15 dogs were dropped in the 3rd who had not handled in the 1st or 3rd series

1/3 of the field gone in 3 series is a very high number, big cuts generally come after 4 or 5 and 6 or 7


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## 2tall

Are there pictures of the tests posted anywhere? I'm especially curious about this blind on the water pictured.


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## Charles C.

2tall said:


> Are there pictures of the tests posted anywhere? I'm especially curious about this blind on the water pictured.


Scroll down on the report:

http://www.working-retriever.com/09nrc/report/index.html


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## Juli H

okay,

all of the handlers know what the blind is...are they going to finish the 4th series today? if not, doesn't that give dogs that run tomorrow an advantage (that they could do some training on a similar blind)....just curious!

Juli


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## EdA

Juli H said:


> okay,
> 
> all of the handlers know what the blind is...are they going to finish the 4th series today? if not, doesn't that give dogs that run tomorrow an advantage (that they could do some training on a similar blind)....just curious!
> 
> Juli


since they will run until it is near dark and start in the morning at first light there is no time for training

plus it is considered highly unethical to watch a test and then go train on it even if something similar was available on the training grounds


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## DarrinGreene

Juli H said:


> okay,
> 
> all of the handlers know what the blind is...are they going to finish the 4th series today? if not, doesn't that give dogs that run tomorrow an advantage (that they could do some training on a similar blind)....just curious!
> 
> Juli


anyone with an ounce of integrity wouldn't be doing that, would they?


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## Juli H

I agree...just sorta seemed like a way to get an edge...I also figured it would be too dark to do something like this....thanks for the replies!

Juli


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## huntinman

EdA said:


> since they will run until it is near dark and start in the morning at first light there is no time for training
> 
> plus it is considered highly unethical to watch a test and then go train on it even if something similar was available on the training grounds


There are plenty that will do it if they think they won't be seen. Most don't feel the need and even the ones that do it probably don't need to, they just can't help trying to get an edge. I don't condone it, but it does happen.


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## Franco

The two dogs that had the most picks(two favorites) in the EE.net Pickem' are gone as well as a bunch of other well-known dogs.


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## Ken Guthrie

EdA said:


> but can they maintain the same standard for 7 series and still have any dogs left?
> 
> looks like 15 dogs were dropped in the 3rd who had not handled in the 1st or 3rd series
> 
> 1/3 of the field gone in 3 series is a very high number, big cuts generally come after 4 or 5 and 6 or 7


As someone with no National experience except as spectator, it seems like the National and National Am. finalist group has grown increasingly larger each year.

Maybe this year they will have something closer to 10 finalists.

In my opinion, this brings a more "elite" meaning to those dogs and handlers.

Not to take anything away from the dogs or handlers that have been part of the larger finalists groups...just seems the group has gotten larger over the years.


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## Ken Guthrie

huntinman said:


> There are plenty that will do it if they think they won't be seen.


I would strongly disagree with this statement.


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## EdA

Ken Guthrie said:


> ...just seems the group has gotten larger over the years.


so have the entries

one of the most difficult things about judging a National is being consistent so that a mistake early in the trial carries more or less the same penalty as a similar mistake later in the trial

lots of things can happen, sometimes tests take a greater or lesser toll than expected

the danger in getting the numbers down too early is that the standards have to change or the degree of difficulty of the tests has to change


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## huntinman

Ken Guthrie said:


> I would strongly disagree with this statement.


You can strongly disagree all you want. You just got through saying you had no experience at a National.


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## K G

huntinman said:


> You can strongly disagree all you want. You just got through saying you had no experience at a National.


What is YOUR National experience, Bill?

kg


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## Ken Guthrie

huntinman said:


> You can strongly disagree all you want. You just got through saying you had no experience at a National.


I don't think one has to have National experience to assume that names like...

Eckett, Farmer, Rorem, Beck, Dewey, and several other top name handlers have a little more integrity than you give them credit for.

Maybe you run with a different crowd.

Just sayin' regards,


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## huntinman

K G said:


> What is YOUR National experience, Bill?
> 
> kg


1995 Nat'l Am, 2001 Nat'l Am. 2001 Nat'l Open, 2002 Nat'l Am, 2003 Nat'l Am and qualified for 2 others, one Am and 2003 Nat'l Open. with 2 different dogs. Last dog averaged 8 series in her 4 Nat'ls before dying at an early age. Does this count or do I need more? PS all AM trained and handled.


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## K G

Ken Guthrie said:


> I don't think one has to have National experience to assume that names like...
> 
> Eckett, Farmer, Rorem, Beck, Dewey, and several other top name handlers have a little more integrity than you give them credit for.
> 
> Maybe you run with a different crowd.
> 
> Just sayin' regards,


_Very_ well said, Ken....agree 100%....and Bill, I just wanted to know from where you were commenting.

kg


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## huntinman

Ken Guthrie said:


> I don't think one has to have National experience to assume that names like...
> 
> Eckett, Farmer, Rorem, Beck, Dewey, and several other top name handlers have a little more integrity than you give them credit for.
> 
> Maybe you run with a different crowd.
> 
> Just sayin' regards,


I never called anyone out by name. Just seems we in this game like to tiptoe around reality when it comes to certain issues. We can put our head in the sand, that does not mean that SOME people won't take advantage of a situation. I don't run with any crowd, I just callem the way I see them.


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## Ken Guthrie

huntinman said:


> I never called anyone out by name.





> Just seems we in this game like to tiptoe.


Isn't that like an oxy moron or something like that?


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## FOM

Back on track - do believe there has been 3 pick ups, do not know the numbers yet and they are calling it a night with dog 59 not sure if that means they are stopping before or after.....that's the best I have for now.

Edit: they stopped with dog 55.....still no news on whether there were actually any pick ups


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## huntinman

Ken Guthrie said:


> Isn't that like an oxy moron or something like that?


Don't make me break out the Ammo stats!


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## K G

Do they make chocolate pom-poms?

kg


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## Franco

Water blind is getting answers, a number of dogs didn't get wet and a few others were picked up.

5th is a Land Quad, supposedly.


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## FOM

2tall said:


> Are there pictures of the tests posted anywhere? I'm especially curious about this blind on the water pictured.


My best guess of how the blind is compared to the satellite image:


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## Joe Dutro

K G said:


> Do they make chocolate pom-poms?
> 
> kg


If they do I'll take 4!!!


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## WRL

huntinman said:


> 1995 Nat'l Am, 2001 Nat'l Am. 2001 Nat'l Open, 2002 Nat'l Am, 2003 Nat'l Am and qualified for 2 others, one Am and 2003 Nat'l Open. with 2 different dogs. Last dog averaged 8 series in her 4 Nat'ls before dying at an early age. Does this count or do I need more? PS all AM trained and handled.


Are you referring (the "she" in this post) to Liddy?

Technically you can't really say she was "amateur trained" can you? I would guess that Mark Akkola who owned her until you became a co-owner/owner was pro for some years. Although, I am pretty sure she was titled or close-to when he turned pro. If I remember correctly, I think Mark turned pro around 1997 give or take. He had a few client dogs when I trained with him 1998/1999 timeframe. 

Bill what year did you become a co-owner with Liddy?

I always regret not getting one of those Cosmo pups. Is Hootie still alive? I saw Chevy run a few times this summer.

WRL


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## huntinman

WRL said:


> Are you referring (the "she" in this post) to Liddy?
> 
> Technically you can't really say she was "amateur trained" can you? I would guess that Mark Akkola who owned her until you became a co-owner/owner was pro for some years. Although, I am pretty sure she was titled or close-to when he turned pro. If I remember correctly, I think Mark turned pro around 1997 give or take. He had a few client dogs when I trained with him 1998/1999 timeframe.
> 
> Bill what year did you become a co-owner with Liddy?
> 
> I always regret not getting one of those Cosmo pups. Is Hootie still alive? I saw Chevy run a few times this summer.
> 
> WRL


If you knew what you were talking about you might be dangerous. I trained with him in AK and hunted with Liddy all her life. She was a great dog. Mark took money as a pro for about a year or 2 and did not run Liddy during that time. Yes I can say she was AM trained and handled because that is the way it was. Liddy had 96.5 all age points and did it the hard way running many of those trials against Carbon and Auggie and Boomer and many of the other great Northwest dogs. Her record speaks for itself... I ran her from 2000 till her death in 2003 as did Mark when he became an AM again. I handled her in the Nat's... she got all but her first 13 points during that 3 year stretch. If you want to talk about what I did or did not do..try asking me first before assuming you know and spreading a bunch of baloney. Actually, all this junk should either be on another thread or on PM... this is the Nat'l thread.


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## WRL

huntinman said:


> If you knew what you were talking about you might be dangerous. I trained with him in AK and hunted with Liddy all her life. She was a great dog. Mark took money as a pro for about a year or 2 and did not run Liddy during that time. Yes I can say she was AM trained and handled because that is the way it was. Liddy had 96.5 all age points and did it the hard way running many of those trials against Carbon and Auggie and Boomer and many of the other great Northwest dogs. Her record speaks for itself... I ran her from 2000 till her death in 2003 as did Mark when he became an AM again. I handled her in the Nat's... she got all but her first 13 points during that 3 year stretch. If you want to talk about what I did or did not do..try asking me first before assuming you know and spreading a bunch of baloney. Actually, all this junk should either be on another thread or on PM... this is the Nat'l thread.


Actually I am aware that you trained with him AK. She WAS a great dog. Very sweet personality and very nice working dog. I am aware she ran against Carbon/Auggie.

This is no slam against her Bill and I can't for the life of me see how you can construe it to be that way.

However, he WAS a pro and he WAS training her when I trained with him. I bet you didn't know I had ever trained with him.

So if you only knew half as much as you think you do you'd be dangerous.

I don't believe in the "true sense" of the term "amatuer trained" you can say she was. Whether Mark ran her in any events (which I am fairly certain he did run her in some Opens during this time) or not, she WAS trained by a pro regardless of it being her owner or not.

WRL


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## huntinman

WRL said:


> Actually I am aware that you trained with him AK. She WAS a great dog. Very sweet personality and very nice working dog. I am aware she ran against Carbon/Auggie.
> 
> This is no slam against her Bill and I can't for the life of me see how you can construe it to be that way.
> 
> However, he WAS a pro and he WAS training her when I trained with him. I bet you didn't know I had ever trained with him.
> 
> So if you only knew half as much as you think you do you'd be dangerous.
> 
> I don't believe in the "true sense" of the term "amatuer trained" you can say she was. Whether Mark ran her in any events (which I am fairly certain he did run her in some Opens during this time) or not, she WAS trained by a pro regardless of it being her owner or not.
> 
> WRL


Bring your tripe to a pm or another thread Lee.


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## Mark Rosenblum

FOM said:


> My best guess of how the blind is compared to the satellite image:


Just got in from trial. Google, is good ,but after 7 inches of Nor'easter, not so so good. Pam Ingham, world famous sketcher and lunch maker has a terrific photo and sketch on the WRC website. Enjoy... she's sketching her little heart out! ( The magazine will have the Pam artistic sketch... these are merely quickies between eating Amish apple pies and homemade local cuisine !)

Crab cake regards.


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## Marty Bullington

.....and back to the National...


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## FOM

Mark Rosenblum said:


> Just got in from trial. Google, is good ,but after 7 inches of Nor'easter, not so so good. Pam Ingham, world famous sketcher and lunch maker has a terrific photo and sketch on the WRC website. Enjoy... she's sketching her little heart out! ( The magazine will have the Pam artistic sketch... these are merely quickies between eating Amish apple pies and homemade local cuisine !)
> 
> Crab cake regards.


I think its good enough to get the idea....and Pam Ingram's drawings are the best, but I have to ask what's up with the graphical overlays? Kind of ruins it....

Will be enjoying crab cakes for Thanksgiving.....you are making me hungry!

Lainee

Edit - come to think of it, if google could show enough detail to show a difference of 7" I'd be worried they were tapped into servers they shouldn't be.....sometimes the things in movies aren't just make believe


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## EdA

Mark Rosenblum said:


> . Pam Ingham, world famous sketcher


also photographer, artist, and creative artist

but one question I have relative to the water blind sketch, there is a road labeled "Ranch Road", is Delaware really large enough to have ranches???????.....


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## Bubba

EdA said:


> also photographer, artist, and creative artist
> 
> but one question I have relative to the water blind sketch, there is a road labeled "Ranch Road", is Delaware really large enough to have ranches???????.....


On the other side of the pond there is a similar sign labelled "Blue Cheese Drive".

Starting to see a pattern here regards

Bubba


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## Bait

FOM said:


> I think its good enough to get the idea....and Pam Ingram's drawings are the best, but I have to ask what's up with the graphical overlays? Kind of ruins it....
> 
> Will be enjoying crab cakes for Thanksgiving.....you are making me hungry!
> 
> Lainee
> 
> Edit - come to think of it, if google could show enough detail to show a difference of 7" I'd be worried they were tapped into servers they shouldn't be.....sometimes the things in movies aren't just make believe


I believe he's talking about the 7" of rain the Nor'easter dumped on us last week. Filled Steve's pond up and then some. Water laying where it isn't usually. 
*****'s crab cakes regards,
BAIT


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## john fallon

Where are they going for the fifth?

john


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## BonMallari

a lot of great dogs got dropped today,about half of my choices on EE pick em..


----------



## K G

Relative to the Retriever Report on WRC....how much trouble would it be to put captions under the pictures that identify who is in the picture?

Anybody (well, ALMOST anybody...;-)) can post pictures on the Internet. Telling a story with pictures is another situation altogether. 

kg


----------



## Bait

john fallon said:


> Where are they going for the fifth?
> 
> john


Think they might be staying at Steve's for a water mark series.


----------



## boo8mer

Does anyone have an update on what happened with dogs that ran today? I know they aren't all done, but up through 55 would be nice...


----------



## DarrinGreene

I haven't been to Steve's since the competition started but that image shows the pond full up. The blog talked of running water at the end which tells me the water is somewhat higher than the photo and probably means the initial swale is holding some water as well.


----------



## Bait

DarrinGreene said:


> I haven't been to Steve's since the competition started but that image shows the pond full up. The blog talked of running water at the end which tells me the water is somewhat higher than the photo and probably means the initial swale is holding some water as well.


Yeah, but more importantly,........................................*****'s is still open! Best crab cakes on the planet!!!!
They're normally closed by now. If they had closed already, there prolly would've been a wildcat strike among the workers. (or at least the bird throwers.)


----------



## Scott Adams

Jeff Goodwin....
Great photos!
A little light on Canadians, but none the less!


----------



## lablover

K G said:


> Relative to the Retriever Report on WRC....how much trouble would it be to put captions under the pictures that identify who is in the picture?
> 
> Anybody (well, ALMOST anybody...;-)) can post pictures on the Internet. Telling a story with pictures is another situation altogether.
> 
> kg


AMEN, brother!

Pictures of folks without names is almost worthless.


----------



## JusticeDog

lablover said:


> AMEN, brother!
> 
> Pictures of folks without names is almost worthless.


True. 

Plus, I want MORE national coverage, not less. Like the days of yester-year when the AKC did video clips and pics and showed support, RTF and WRC. The strong arm techniques of today, trying to force everything through one source is just not attractive, not good for the sport, and just breeds resentment, having the opposite effect of what some people are striving for... 

just sayin'

More is better regards, and there's rooom for everyone in the sand box. Please don't make it a litterbox regards-


----------



## EdA

JusticeDog said:


> True.
> 
> Plus, I want MORE national coverage, not less. Like the days of yester-year when the AKC did video clips and pics and showed support, RTF and WRC. The strong arm techniques of today, trying to force everything through one source is just not attractive, not good for the sport, and just breeds resentment, having the opposite effect of what some people are striving for...
> 
> just sayin'
> 
> More is better regards, and there's rooom for everyone in the sand box. Please don't make it a litterbox regards-


Susan, is there some sort of information censorship at the National, your post seems to imply that?


----------



## Ken Guthrie

JusticeDog said:


> The strong arm


Here we go again.


----------



## JusticeDog

EdA said:


> Susan, is there some sort of information censorship at the National, your post seems to imply that?


Yes. Text messages going out, no pics to be posted on RTF, reporting to be funneled through one source. Will be asked to leave the national if people don't cooperate. 

People need to play nice regards-


----------



## K G

JusticeDog said:


> True.
> 
> Plus, I want MORE national coverage, not less. Like the days of yester-year when the AKC did video clips and pics and showed support, RTF and WRC. The strong arm techniques of today, trying to force everything through one source is just not attractive, not good for the sport, and just breeds resentment, having the opposite effect of what some people are striving for...
> 
> just sayin'
> 
> More is better regards, and there's rooom for everyone in the sand box. Please don't make it a litterbox regards-





EdA said:


> Susan, is there some sort of information censorship at the National, your post seems to imply that?


This is a verbatim text from a VERY reliable source: "Been confirmed they are threatening to remove people from the grounds if they send out any updates to RTF/RTF people from the National."

IF this is true, I'm disappointed beyond words.

kg


----------



## JusticeDog

K G said:


> This is a verbatim text from a VERY reliable source: "Been confirmed they are threatening to remove people from the grounds if they send out any updates to RTF/RTF people from the National."
> 
> IF this is true, I'm disappointed beyond words.
> 
> kg


KG- That is the exact quote I got, too KG. So, I have no doubt it's true. And, you and I don't hang in the same circles... so I'm sure it was from a different source. 

Disappointed beyond words doesn't even describe it..


----------



## john fallon

Name Names please. 
Without names this information is useless.
White noise regards
john


----------



## EdA

K G said:


> This is a verbatim text from a VERY reliable source: "Been confirmed they are threatening to remove people from the grounds if they send out any updates to RTF/RTF people from the National."
> 
> IF this is true, I'm disappointed beyond words.
> 
> kg


seriously?...

Information censorship in the USA at an AKC event?

If true this is truly shocking and probably illegal

Freedom Of Speech Regards


----------



## Ken Guthrie

I was told they actually just have a penalty box...

If the strong armers find out they are leaking information they immediately send out a troop of Keystone Cops and escort them to a stake out location.

Here is where they must repeat 100 times...

"Strong Armers are great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

You guys seriously need to get out a little more.


----------



## JusticeDog

EdA said:


> seriously?...
> 
> Information censorship in the USA at an AKC event?
> 
> If true this is truly shocking and probably illegal
> 
> Freedom Of Speech Regards


You better believe it.... told people it was "private grounds".... yet they aren't the owners. Doesn't say in the premium you can't bring a camera. And RTF is being specifically mentioned.

I think the focus should be on upgrading WRC, not dragging it down ..... this is not the way to increase loyalty, readership, sponsorship or the like.


----------



## K G

john fallon said:


> Name Names please.
> Without names this information is useless.
> White noise regards
> john


Yeah...._that_'ll happen....

kg


----------



## EdA

K G said:


> This is a verbatim text from a VERY reliable source: "Been confirmed they are threatening to remove people from the grounds if they send out any updates to RTF/RTF people from the National."
> 
> IF this is true, I'm disappointed beyond words.
> 
> kg





JusticeDog said:


> You better believe it.... told people it was "private grounds".... yet they aren't the owners. Doesn't say in the premium you can't bring a camera. And RTF is being specifically mentioned.


and these threats are coming from The National Retriever Club or Retriever News?


----------



## Ken Guthrie

EdA said:


> and these threats are coming from The National Retriever Club or Retriever News?


They are coming from Crusty the Crab.


----------



## Josh Conrad

I still want one of those "Strong Arm RC" T-shirts. Shayne should sell them, or send them out to the clubs that use his service, LOL

Maybe it could say "The Man Didn't Get Me Down" on the back???? LOL


----------



## Ken Guthrie

Josh Conrad said:


> I still want one of those "Strong Arm RC" back??


I got one....

I'll send it to the first person who will stand up, show a sack, cut the BS, and mention names with full details.


----------



## JusticeDog

EdA said:


> and these threats are coming from The National Retriever Club or Retriever News?


I guess I would need a roster..... aren't some of them the same? They seem kinda fungible to me..


----------



## Ken Guthrie

JusticeDog said:


> I guess I would need a roster..... aren't some of them the same? They seem kinda fungible to me..


Just contact your source...

They should know.


----------



## Bubba

JusticeDog said:


> I guess I would need a roster..... aren't some of them the same? They seem kinda fungible to me..


They seem kinda slithering to me.

Paging Mr. Rosenwhatever regards

Bubba


----------



## K G

john fallon said:


> Name Names please.
> Without names this information is useless.
> White noise regards
> john





EdA said:


> and these threats are coming from The National Retriever Club or Retriever News?


My source did not name names. 

kg


----------



## Mark Rosenblum

'Just got in from eating lamb chops. Sheraton is perfect for HQ. Close to grounds, excellent restaurant, bar w/ big screen. 

Trial will finish WB tomorrow; nice test, pretty pond. Ranch road, not of TX/OK quality. Trees is in area. More like "road around a pond:.. keep it simple.

Easy to miss water, and there are several pieces, but did not see any pick-ups. 'Think I watched most dogs go.

Hoping for good weather and excellent crab/oyster harvest.


----------



## Ken Guthrie

K G said:


> My source did not name names.
> 
> kg


Well there you go.


----------



## JusticeDog

K G said:


> My source did not name names.
> 
> kg


Yes, but the reply button on the text message has a phone number...


----------



## tshuntin

JusticeDog said:


> KG- That is the exact quote I got, too KG. So, I have no doubt it's true. And, you and I don't hang in the same circles... so I'm sure it was from a different source.
> 
> Disappointed beyond words doesn't even describe it..


Wow, that is unbelievable... Wonder what the AKC would think about that. Guess we will see, if they respond to the email i just sent to the top...


----------



## Ken Guthrie

tshuntin said:


> Wow, that is unbelievable... Wonder what the AKC would think about that. Guess we will see, if they respond to the email i just sent to the top...


Hey, maybe there will be a misconduct hearing.


----------



## Jim Pickering

After reading the info on WRC then reading about the secrecy thing on this thread I am convinced that the whole national thing is a conspiracy. Like with the moon landing, the shadows do not line up.

If you look at the sketch of the water blind on the WRC Retriever Report per the directional icon north is to the lower left. That indicates that the blind is run to the south. That is ok, but . . .

Both the sketch and the photo indicate that the blind was a shoreline blind down the right shore with a tree line not so deep of the pond. In the photo the left side of the holding blind where the blind planter is hidden is lit presumably by sunlight. Assuming that the photo was taken during or just prior to the running of the blind, early to mid afternoon, to reflect the light the left side of the blind would have to be facing south to southwest. Therefore the blind would be run to the west. If the test was set up and the photo taken in the morning then the sketch and photo are more consistent, except . . .

If you look at the Google image of the pond with the blind depicted as posted on this thread the blind is run to the east.

Hey, it’s a slow night, and I was just trying to get a mental image of how the lightening might impact the visibility for dog and handler.


----------



## tshuntin

Ken Guthrie said:


> Hey, maybe there will be a misconduct hearing.


Nice Gut, that is a good one!!


----------



## FOM

Jim,

The satellite picture may not be oriented correctly, my bag....I'll double check later...

FOM


----------



## Mark Rosenblum

Interesting controversies described on site. Biggest issue seems to be ...

Fights in gallery broke out over "best crab cakes". Seem like MD, south NJ crowd going for Woody's ( this author has not tried). DE and south crowd going for *****'s. I've doubled up on that fare and it is certainly in the LA (not west coast) league.

Back fin lump regards.


----------



## JusticeDog

JusticeDog said:


> Yes, but the reply button on the text message has a phone number...


And isn't area code 214 Dallas? I seem to recall that it is.... 




People should spend more time cleaning up their own houses...


----------



## Bait

Mark Rosenblum said:


> Seem like MD, south NJ crowd going for Woody's ( this author has not tried). DE and south crowd going for *****'s.


 Not totally true. I'm from South Jersey and there ain't no better crab cake than *****'s!


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Bait said:


> Not totally true. I'm from South Jersey and there ain't no better crab cake than *****'s!


 
Bait....that might be true, but the big question is......

"ARE YOU PLANTING THE BLIND?????"


----------



## boo8mer

And here I was thinking this event/thread was supposed to be about dogs...


----------



## Bait

Vicky Trainor said:


> Bait....that might be true, but the big question is......
> 
> "ARE YOU PLANTING THE BLIND?????"


AW, MAN! How many years ago was that? Geez! Guess I ain't ever gonna live that down, am I? 
But, I heard you're buying at *****'s tommorrow, so it's OK for you to bust my chops.


----------



## john fallon

I have a low cholesterol recipe for them, if anyone is interested

john


----------



## K G

boo8mer said:


> And here I was thinking this event/thread was supposed to be about dogs...



I believe the title is "NRC Coverage".....looks like there may not be much more here....does that make it "about the dogs?"

kg


----------



## boo8mer

Gonna go with about 75% no. Unless it's dogs eatin crab cakes and sending texts. It sounds like a load of BS that's going on, and I agree, I was just curious about which dogs refused water today and I can't find it anywhere... Forgive me for asking about the dogs on this thread...


----------



## Juli H

when you consider the time of day that it is on the east coast, it should come as no surprise that you have not gotten your answer....not to mention the people that are actually watching or playing at the national most likely are busy doing other things.

Juli


----------



## JusticeDog

boo8mer said:


> Gonna go with about 75% no. Unless it's dogs eatin crab cakes and sending texts. It sounds like a load of BS that's going on, and I agree, I was just curious about which dogs refused water today and I can't find it anywhere... Forgive me for asking about the dogs on this thread...


I was trying to find that same info...... and then found up all sources of info were drying up quickly...


----------



## boo8mer

I understand, I just figured someone posting this may know something. No worries...


----------



## Howard N

JusticeDog said:


> I was trying to find that same info...... and then found up all sources of info were drying up quickly...


The National Retriever Club, where the the first amendment is alive and well.


----------



## jeff t.

JusticeDog said:


> I guess I would need a roster..... aren't some of them the same? They seem kinda *fungible* to me..


Great word choice there Susan!

Fungible 
–adjective Law. (esp. of goods) being of such nature or kind as to be freely exchangeable or replaceable, in whole or in part, for another of like nature or kind.


----------



## Mark Rosenblum

boo8mer said:


> I understand, I just figured someone posting this may know something. No worries...


Good points.Retriever News crew will add more descriptive info today.

I will say that the blind happens fast and it is easy to miss the early portion of the "big piece" of water. Basically the gun shot (pop) and the squaring of the deep swail ( away from the water) to the right make for a difficult angle on the water entry. Swail puts dog out of sight for a second or two; right hand momentum presents a challenge and can be a fight to get back on line. 

Nearly everyone has gotten some water ( larger pool is say 40-60yds), its just where the dog enters. It all unfolds in a few seconds. Return is mostly by land, very quick.

Handlers realize that they have to move the dog to the left early on; so many have taken to a left cast prior to swail if the dog indicates any right hand momentum ( many have). 

All in all it's a tricky angle to enter the all pieces of water at a good angle. And it goes quickly! 

' Hope that helps.


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

boo8mer said:


> Gonna go with about 75% no. Unless it's dogs eatin crab cakes and sending texts. It sounds like a load of BS that's going on, and I agree, I was just curious about which dogs refused water today and I can't find it anywhere... Forgive me for asking about the dogs on this thread...


Must have been all the BS that attracted the SKUNK!!!!

Just a guess regards
Brad


----------



## Ken Guthrie

JusticeDog said:


> And isn't area code 214 Dallas? I seem to recall that it is....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People should spend more time cleaning up their own houses...


Susan...

Your losing it.

Your starting to answer your own questions with questions.


----------



## Jim Pickering

FOM said:


> Jim,
> 
> The satellite picture may not be oriented correctly, my bag....I'll double check later...
> 
> FOM


Not a problem. I was simply trying to lighten up the discussion given the thread was headed south for a second time.

Your image was rotated 90 degrees right. The blind was run from west to east on a heading of approximately 100 degrees. With the sun setting in the southwest this time of year at Zilli’s pond the sun should not have been a serious factor even late in the day.

As respects the other elements of the conspiracy  the reflection off the holding blind was likely due to the test being set up in the morning and the photo taken before mid day. The directional icon on the sketch simply did not get orientated correctly which is more easily done with the Google Earth view.

The sketches are excellent BTW.

If I were to critique the coverage, my preference would be less photos and cute remarks about what goes on behind the line and more about the dog work in front of the mat. But what we are getting is far better than it once was and is appreciated.


----------



## john fallon

As I've been saying for as long as I have been around here , these "National Types" are just too autonomous for my taste.

john


----------



## scott spalding

Another nice morning here. 54 back to the fifth.
________
WEED VAPORIZER


----------



## john fallon

> ...... 54 back to the fifth.


I'm not going to quibble about what it took to get us to this piont.

Butttttt from here on out, just what is the need for all of the help

jon


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Mark Rosenblum said:


> Good points.Retriever News crew will add more descriptive info today.
> 
> I will say that the blind happens fast and it is easy to miss the early portion of the "big piece" of water. Basically the gun shot (pop) and the squaring of the deep swail ( away from the water) to the right make for a difficult angle on the water entry. Swail puts dog out of sight for a second or two; right hand momentum presents a challenge and can be a fight to get back on line.
> 
> Nearly everyone has gotten some water ( larger pool is say 40-60yds), its just where the dog enters. It all unfolds in a few seconds. Return is mostly by land, very quick.
> 
> Handlers realize that they have to move the dog to the left early on; so many have taken to a left cast prior to swail if the dog indicates any right hand momentum ( many have).
> 
> All in all it's a tricky angle to enter the all pieces of water at a good angle. And it goes quickly!
> 
> ' Hope that helps.


Interesting


----------



## FOM

Dogs dropped: 1 4 5 47 55

will update list when I get fully awake


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Hey Mark,

Thank you for the description of the hazzards of the blind. Sorry about you losing Norman.....he was one of my picks. Good luck with your other dog. 

I really enjoyed visiting with you at the last series of the MN earlier this month. The blog is great to read on my breaks in between dogs out here in the middle of Kansas.

thankful regards,

LT


----------



## K G

FOM said:


> Dogs dropped: 1 4 5 47 55
> 
> will update list when I get fully awake


Anybody else expecting a big cut after the 5th? Maybe in the 15-18 range?

It's a numbers game regards,

kg


----------



## Chris Atkinson

Mark Rosenblum said:


> Good points.Retriever News crew will add more descriptive info today.
> 
> I will say that the blind happens fast and it is easy to miss the early portion of the "big piece" of water. Basically the gun shot (pop) and the squaring of the deep swail ( away from the water) to the right make for a difficult angle on the water entry. Swail puts dog out of sight for a second or two; right hand momentum presents a challenge and can be a fight to get back on line.
> 
> Nearly everyone has gotten some water ( larger pool is say 40-60yds), its just where the dog enters. It all unfolds in a few seconds. Return is mostly by land, very quick.
> 
> Handlers realize that they have to move the dog to the left early on; so many have taken to a left cast prior to swail if the dog indicates any right hand momentum ( many have).
> 
> All in all it's a tricky angle to enter the all pieces of water at a good angle. And it goes quickly!
> 
> ' Hope that helps.


Mark, Thanks for your time on the phone today and thanks for posting some detail for the retriever folks above.

I think this is a great example of the retriever community truly gaining value from the resources that exist to keep them informed. 

I'm truly thankful that the "News", or "NRC", or "WRC" folks, are utilizing RTF to help bridge the information flow. Thanks to Josie Ottman, Mark Rosenblum, Vickie Lamb, Mark Koenig, and any others associated, that have posted in this thread (or started it) to keep the community informed.

Lainee, your callback sources should be flowing wide open today. Text and phone away NRC observers! (unless you're working a station, in which case you better keep your toys put away and focus on placing that mark or blind!)

Chris


----------



## K G

You gotta love it when a plan comes together.....;-)

Peace in the valley regards,

kg


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

K G said:


> You gotta love it when a plan comes together.....;-)
> 
> Peace in the valley regards,
> 
> kg


Yep, this falls in the category of "things that make ya say Hmmmmmm"

Brad


----------



## FOM

Chris Atkinson said:


> Lainee, your callback sources should be flowing wide open today. Text and phone away NRC observers! (unless you're working a station, in which case you better keep your toys put away and focus on placing that mark or blind!)


 
I'm always looking for more sources: 719-338-8573 

FOM


----------



## JusticeDog

Chris Atkinson said:


> .
> 
> Lainee, your callback sources should be flowing wide open today. Text and phone away NRC observers! (unless you're working a station, in which case you better keep your toys put away and focus on placing that mark or blind!)


Ahhhh.. the world is at peace today....... As it should be.


----------



## JusticeDog

Thanks for your description of that 4th series blind Mark. And also to Pam Ingrahm.... her excellent drawing was what put it all into perspective.


----------



## john fallon

JusticeDog said:


> Ahhhh.. the world is at peace today....... As it should be.


Isn"t it amazing what a little sleep will do to ones perspective. 

Fly on the chatroom wall regards.

john


----------



## EdA

JusticeDog said:


> And also to Pam Ingrahm....


not to be picky but Pam has had her last name spelled incorrectly several times, FYI it's INGHAM............


----------



## FOM

john fallon said:


> Isn"t it amazing what a little sleep will do to ones perspective.
> 
> Fly on the chatroom wall regards.
> 
> john


Isn't the chatroom fun sometimes? 

SUSAN FOR PRESIDENT - 'kiss my muffin' regards,

FOM


----------



## JusticeDog

EdA said:


> not to be picky but Pam has had her last name spelled incorrectly several times, FYI it's INGHAM............


She still rocks, no matter how she spells her name! 

no harm meant to pam regards-


----------



## crackerd

K G said:


> Peace in the valley regards


Ain't no valleys up here, K_G, flattest state in the Union (or secretly the Confederacy) but Nelson conjured up as close to one as we come for the 4th and 5th (and 6th?) series venue.

MG


----------



## Ted Shih

K G said:


> Anybody else expecting a big cut after the 5th? Maybe in the 15-18 range?
> 
> It's a numbers game regards,
> 
> kg


With 54 dogs, if you drop 15 dogs, you are left with 39 dogs for 5 series. Doesn't leave much margin for error.

Imagine holding a weekend Open with only 39 dogs......


----------



## Franco

I've been told that the 5th is basically a one bird series and they are all pretty much doing it. Only one dog has handled so far so, I don't expect a big cut after this series.


----------



## Lonny Taylor

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but there seems to be alot of dogs being dropped that have not handled at all. Without being there and seeing the work, I am assuming that there has been alot of gorrilla hunts that are being dropped. I agree with Ted that a deep cut in this series and they risk having their field being pretty small with 5 series still to run. You would hate to see the criteria change and work that was dropped previously, all of a sudden become acceptable inorder to keep the numbers up. 

armchair quaterback regards,

LT


----------



## Ken Guthrie

Those that show concern about the lack of dogs left in National...

Isn't the point of the National to find 1 winner?

With 50+ dogs with 5+ series left........

Heck.........

I'd think that would be perfect numbers to manage.


----------



## Mark Chase

Does the National require that it be 10 series at minimum or can it be completed with less than 10 series run?


----------



## JusticeDog

Nice picture of Sinner and Jeff Telander on the blog.... and I swear that Cutter is smiling...


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

Franco said:


> I've been told that the 5th is basically a one bird series and they are all pretty much doing it. Only one dog has handled so far so, I don't expect a big cut after this series.


Looks like a single might have knocked out last years champ.

Brad


----------



## EdA

Mark Chase said:


> Does the National require that it be 10 series at minimum or can it be completed with less than 10 series run?


it must be a minimum of 10 series although it could be more (unlikely due to time constraints)


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Ken, I am really more curious about what has been the fatal errors so far to this point, because from looking from the outside alot of dogs that did not handle were dropped. Most of the time the national has a two owwie rule, but kind of wondering if the judges this year are not messing around. Without being there and seeing what the dog work is like it is tough to speculate. I do know that the one water triple was suppose to be a later test and it obviously took a toll on the field. 

LT


----------



## FOM

dog 66 got a no bird on the first bird down, returned immediately to the line....did not wait 3.....


----------



## JusticeDog

Lonny Taylor said:


> Ken, I am really more curious about what has been the fatal errors so far to this point, because from looking from the outside alot of dogs that did not handle were dropped. Most of the time the national has a two owwie rule, but kind of wondering if the judges this year are not messing around. Without being there and seeing what the dog work is like it is tough to speculate. I do know that the one water triple was suppose to be a later test and it obviously took a toll on the field.
> 
> LT


I guess the judging comes in as to what is an "owwie" and what is a failure... my guess is that it's what it comes down to at weekend FTs.... size of the hunt, location of the hunt, did it mark the bird or SOB, etc..... it is hard to know without being there...


----------



## YardleyLabs

JusticeDog said:


> I guess the judging comes in as to what is an "owwie" and what is a failure... my guess is that it's what it comes down to at weekend FTs.... size of the hunt, location of the hunt, did it mark the bird or SOB, etc..... it is hard to know without being there...


In the first test (series 1 & 2) the issue in all but one case was dogs that went deep and left on the left memory bird, had big hunts, and then had to be handled to the bird or simply had hunts that went 100-200 yards outside the area of fall (some even further). One dog was handled quickly and cleanly and survived the call back. One dog sent on the blind (which had to be picked up second), overshot the bird, went into the area of fall for the left hand bird and was finally picked up.

In the third series, the killer was the long left retired memory bird. Dogs would get out of the water early and, instead of turning left toward the bird, would hunt deep into the field beyond. Some of these quickly realized their mistake and came back to the area of fall. Others had monster hunts ending with a handle. Those dogs were dropped. Every handle I saw on that bird was accompanied with a big hunt.

I did not stay for the fourth series, but was there for the set up last Thursday. As Mark indicated, the challenge was to get the dog in the water with no time for thinking before it was too late.


----------



## FOM

dog 70 on lline, 73 & 74 in holding blinds, bye dog after 74 for rebirding...


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Thank you Jeff!! That clarifies what was happening. Sounds like there was alot of SOBing on some birds and in the judges opinion they failed those marks. Appreciate the info.

regards,

LT


----------



## boo8mer

Dukdawg said:


> Must have been all the BS that attracted the SKUNK!!!!
> 
> Just a guess regards
> Brad




I apologize for being 4 hours behind the east coast and looking for an update from anyone who was there. Some of us just want to know how the dogs are doing. Don't get me wrong, I love crab cakes, I'd just like to know what went on that day in the event when I get off work and it's 10:00 there. I figured someone could shed some light on it, forgive me.


----------



## FOM

Dog 87 broke and 6 handled...


----------



## Howard N

The picture on the blog of #6 on the honor doesn't look to promising...........


----------



## FOM

Some Day 3 pictures


----------



## FOM

call backs: 2, 3, 7, 10, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 35, 38, 39, 43, 45, 46, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 58, 59, 60, 61, 63, 65, 66, 69, 70, 73, 74, 77, 78, 82, 85, 86, 88, 89, 92 -- 47 dogs


----------



## JeffLusk

Thanks lainee!!!! 

I'm still rooting for #3 chip!!!


----------



## FOM

5th Series Dogs Dropped: 6, 15, 33, 41, 87, 90, 91

6th series is reported to be: land quad with two flyers and two retired guns


----------



## K G

I had 78 out after the third....

kg


----------



## FOM

dog 52 starts the series


----------



## EdA

K G said:


> I had 78 out after the third....
> 
> kg


that's Ethel, she handled in the 3rd but called back


----------



## Grant Wilson

K G said:


> I had 78 out after the third....
> 
> kg


Handles in the 3rd,not dropped in the third, right?


----------



## FOM

K G said:


> I had 78 out after the third....
> 
> kg


Huh? Did I miss something?


----------



## K G

EdA said:


> that's Ethel, she handled in the 3rd but called back





Water Rock said:


> Handles in the 3rd,not dropped in the third, right?





FOM said:


> Huh? Did I miss something?


That's why I asked....this is a mistake I can stomach, since I lost 87 on the break but gained 78 since I marked it wrong....all is well. THANKS ED!!

GREAT JOB, LAINEE!!!!

KG


----------



## Juli H

I think somewhere else it was discussed that a clean handle was better than letting the dog have a HUGE hunt (with a handle or without)...
Juli


----------



## FOM

Damn KG, don't go screwing with my head like that! I need an after lunch nap and really need to get some real work done!


----------



## K G

It was _totally_ unintentional....no net loss of any more of my "pick 'em" dogs after 5....again, you're doing GREAT, Lainee...;-)

kg


----------



## EdA

K G said:


> . THANKS ED!!


 
Special interest dog, one of our babies along with Morey and Brother Bob....


----------



## K G

I have been a fan of Ethel since she ran her first National. Got to see her on one of my judging trips to Texas and have admired her from afar ever since....

kg


----------



## EdA

K G said:


> I have been a fan of Ethel since she ran her first National. Got to see her on one of my judging trips to Texas and have admired her from afar ever since....
> 
> kg


I told DF several years back that if I could choose one dog off of his truck for me it would be Ethel (who has 3 FC &/or AFC siblings)


----------



## john fallon

As it stands now with that many called back, _I think _they may have a time management problem.

How long should a 47 dog* National Caliber *land quad take ? 8 hrs minimum would be my guess.

Accuweather states that the wind in Hartly is currently is out of the E., tomorrow it is forecast for SE then ESE 
The weather in Hartly is also forecast to take a one day turn tomorrow with some light to moderate rain forecast for the afternoon and evening. From a proposed future venue condition perspective, that is not what they wanted to hear.,

With the workers gala being slated for tonight....I don't see them getting much else but the 5th done by the end of the day tomorrow(Thursday). 

That leaves Friday and half of Saturday to do 5 "National Caliber" series.

With this in mind the fifth should be a hummer

john


----------



## Franco

john fallon said:


> That leaves Friday and half of Saturday to do 5 "National Caliber" series.
> 
> With this in mind the fifth should be a hummer
> 
> john


They finished the 5th earlier today and the 6th has started. They'll probably be well into the 7th by end of Thursday.


----------



## Lonny Taylor

They are in good shape. As long as this test doesnt totally wipeout the field. Would bet they will probably see two more blinds and two more super marking series to see who shakes out as this years winner. Of course weather changes always suck at these things. 

LT


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> That leaves Friday and half of Saturday to do 5 "National Caliber" series.


Saturday is rarely (if ever) a "half day", tomorrow they will finish 6 and finish a land blind for 7, then have 2 days to do 2 marking tests (one water and one land) and one water blind


----------



## Franco

EdA said:


> Saturday is rarely (if ever) a "half day", tomorrow they will finish 5 and finish a land blind for 6, then have 2 days to do 3 marking tests (one water, one combo, and one land) and one water blind
> 
> it'll be like doing a 30 dog Open in 2 days with great mechanics


Is it Wednesday in Texas today? The 5th was finished 3 hours ago.;-)


----------



## EdA

Franco said:


> Is it Wednesday in Texas today? The 5th was finished 3 hours ago.;-)


well they're even in better shape then, finish 6 and 7 tomorrow, then maybe they can do a test in "flooded water"...did he really say that???....;-)

8,9, and 10 and they're done early on Saturday


----------



## Franco

EdA said:


> well they're even in better shape then, finish 6 and 7 tomorrow, then maybe they can do a test in "flooded water"...did he really say that???....;-)
> 
> 8,9, and 10 and they're done early on Saturday


Ed, you are spending way too much time with Guthrie!:razz:


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Mark Smith and #24 FC Bayou Teche Tex (Tex) coming back from having run; talking with Danny Farmer with #39 FC Trumarc's Brother Bob (Bobby)










Mark Smith and #24 FC Bayou Teche Tex (Tex) coming back from having run; talking with Danny Farmer with #39 FC Trumarc's Brother Bob (Bobby)









Jimmie Darnell and #38 AFC Wildwings Girl's Best Friend (Diamond)









Jimmie Darnell and #38 AFC Wildwings Girl's Best Friend (Diamond)
(Just for you, Debbie!!!)









Al Arthur with #35 FC Jaybar's Tupperware (Tupper)









Dave Rorem with #33 NFC Two Rivers Lucky Willie (Willie)


----------



## EdA

Franco said:


> Ed, you are spending way too much time with Guthrie!:razz:


I spend zero time with him, haven't side hide nor hair in months


----------



## AmiableLabs

Vicky,

Thanks for the pics.

Always appreciated.


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Charlie Hines with his girl, #43 FC-AFC Windy City's Secret Signal (Cody)
What a sweetheart!! (Both Charlie & Cody!!) He told me he thought she was the oldest running in this National.









Our own, Jeff Telander, with #45 FC-AFC Broad Reach Devil Made Me Doit (Sinner) A wonderful pair!! 









View from the gallery


----------



## JeffLusk

Nice pics vicky!!


----------



## Juli H

all I can say is it's a good thing the handlers all have numbers. 

Juli


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Lyn Yelton getting ready to run as bye dog. Sorry, I didn't get Lyn's dog's name. 









View of the honor position









Another view from the gallery area


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Ed,

I am still betting that they do two more blinds. What do you say bet a cold beverage???

LT


----------



## EdA

Lonny Taylor said:


> Ed,
> 
> I am still betting that they do two more blinds. What do you say bet a cold beverage???
> 
> LT


did ya read my post......one land blind and one water blind....pay up


----------



## john fallon

Did they get the next series started?

john


----------



## goldngirl

Just want to say ...."Go David Ward and Digger # 2 & Flip # 59!"

Heard their all doing great so far! 

Your fans, goldngirl and Dixie


----------



## cotts135

Sleeper pick and right now not getting alot of attention:

*88 FC- NAFTCH-FTCH-AFTCH L And L Black Tie Affair*

Just saying


----------



## Franco

Vicky Trainor said:


> Mark Smith and #24 FC Bayou Teche Tex (Tex) coming back from having run; talking with Danny Farmer with #39 FC Trumarc's Brother Bob (Bobby)
> 
> Nice pics Vicky, I hope you don't mind if I lift this photo and email it to them?
> 
> They've been friends for a long time.
> 
> Anyone wanna guess who Danny is sending his young " Basics" youngster too?


----------



## Howard N

cotts135 said:


> Sleeper pick and right now not getting alot of attention:
> 
> *88 FC- NAFTCH-FTCH-AFTCH L And L Black Tie Affair*
> 
> Just saying


And his owner/handler has a *great* first name. 

Hope I didn't jinx him.


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Franco said:


> Vicky Trainor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice pics Vicky, I hope you don't mind if I lift this photo and email it to them?
> 
> They've been friends for a long time.
> 
> Anyone wanna guess who Danny is sending his young " Basics" youngster too?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't mind. Just tell Danny I tried to get his best side.
Click to expand...


----------



## Howard N

I dunno Franco. Doesn't Smith look a little brokebackyish with that visor thing going on?


----------



## john fallon

At 3 pm today it was sunny, 60° and the wind was reported as being from the SE at about 6 mph 

At 7 am tomorrow the forcast is for cloudy conditions, 50° temps. and a ENE wind at about 7 mph then swinging back toward the east. Due E by 9 am and ESE by 11.and should stay that way for the hour or two that it will take to finish the test.
A light to moderate rain is slated to arrive at about nid day and continue into the evening

It will be interesting to read if and how much this changes effect the work .

john


----------



## Franco

Howard N said:


> I dunno Franco. Doesn't Smith look a little brokebackyish with that visor thing going on?


You mean that powered blue visor with the rainbow?

He's got the big funky eye glasses on. I tell him that it makes him look older, more mature.


----------



## Juli H

Howard N said:


> I dunno Franco. Doesn't Smith look a little *brokebackyish* with that visor thing going on?


that is hysterical.

Juli


----------



## Ken Guthrie

EdA said:


> I spend zero time with him, haven't side hide nor hair in months


Sorry boys...

I've been chasing deer, ducks, and a 3 year old.

In about a decade or so I'll be back in full force. By that time Ed will need Walker's Game Ear and a cane to get to the line.

I'll be fat and bald, but mostly happy.


----------



## Lee W

cotts135 said:


> Sleeper pick and right now not getting alot of attention:
> 
> *88 FC- NAFTCH-FTCH-AFTCH L And L Black Tie Affair*
> 
> Just saying


Why would you say this dog is a sleeper pick ?


----------



## Vicky Trainor

A closer look


----------



## Vicky Trainor

OOPS....wrong picture.

Here's a close up of the one you wanted Franco.


----------



## rufsea

Anyone have directions to the 6th series, heading down in the morning. Thanks!


----------



## Mark Sehon

My Boy Smitd!!


----------



## Howard N

Franco said:


> You mean that powered blue visor with the rainbow?
> 
> He's got the big funky eye glasses on. I tell him that it makes him look older, more mature.


Sure Smith might _look_ mature now and then. Then he opens his mouth and illusion is gone.


----------



## FOM

Just so I can say I stirred the poop before Susan - some one please define "commerical" for me. I sure don't recall being charged one stinky penny or charging a stinking penny to anyone else....just saying! The school yard bully needs to stopping bullying RTFers, jealousy is very unbecoming! GO POUND SAND and stop being a bully!!!

FOM


----------



## Franco

Vicky Trainor said:


> OOPS....wrong picture.
> 
> Here's a close up of the one you wanted Franco.


I'll send them this one. I liked the way you cropped the photo.

Smith qualified Quick along with Tex and Quick is really his hottest dog, right now, just winning back to back Opens. I hope that next National, Quick will be competitve at 11 years of age because he not entered in this one.

Vicky, you should offer this photo to Tri Tronics and Purina.


----------



## signgirl

cotts135 said:


> Sleeper pick and right now not getting alot of attention:
> 
> *88 FC- NAFTCH-FTCH-AFTCH L And L Black Tie Affair*
> 
> Just saying


A very, very nice dog and a very, very good amateur handler....the kind of team that exemplifies the best of this game.


----------



## Philip Carson

Are there any rugs in the NRC?


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Vicky Trainor said:


>


lol Hands on hips. Wonder who that guy could be.


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

K G said:


> I have been a fan of Ethel since she ran her first National. Got to see her on one of my judging trips to Texas and have admired her from afar ever since....
> 
> kg


No clue about her EIC status, but I would *love* a pup out of her and Patton if that would work out. Huge fan of her too regards.


----------



## Glenda Brown

For all of you "techies" on the recent photos posted, I get a blank large box and in the upper left hand corner a white box with a red X in it and I cannot bring up the photos.

Any suggestions----print in large letters and very, very simple terms!!

Thanks.

Glenda


----------



## Juli H

click (I think left click?) on the 'x' and choose 'show picture'....

Juli


----------



## Ken Guthrie

FOM said:


> Just so I can say I stirred the poop before Susan - some one please define "commerical" for me. I sure don't recall being charged one stinky penny or charging a stinking penny to anyone else....just saying! The school yard bully needs to stopping bullying RTFers, jealousy is very unbecoming! GO POUND SAND and stop being a bully!!!
> 
> FOM


Congratulations FOM........

and Bullet too.


----------



## Howard N

FOM said:


> Just so I can say I stirred the poop before Susan - some one please define "commerical" for me. I sure don't recall being charged one stinky penny or charging a stinking penny to anyone else....just saying! The school yard bully needs to stopping bullying RTFers, jealousy is very unbecoming! GO POUND SAND and stop being a bully!!!
> 
> FOM


Lainee, you might be vertically challenged but you're fiesty.

You're 100% OK!


----------



## JusticeDog

FOM said:


> Just so I can say I stirred the poop before Susan - some one please define "commerical" for me. I sure don't recall being charged one stinky penny or charging a stinking penny to anyone else....just saying! The school yard bully needs to stopping bullying RTFers, jealousy is very unbecoming! GO POUND SAND and stop being a bully!!!
> 
> FOM


Commercial = "For Sale" And the issue was over Commercial Photos...... which none of those are being posted here.... (or the thoughts of commercial photos being posted here was giving someone the willies) all photos have been put in the public domain via the internet.... 

Silliness, yet again. People who like to bully have no control over anything else in their lives. 

So, I am quite willing to post my National Photo, of excellent quality here... It's quite valuable. Some of the Ikons of the sport have been involved in this photo.... Danny Farmer and his father Charlie Hays, Bill Sargenti, Ray Voight, our own Jimmie Darnell, have all taken part in some very important "paperwork" at the location shown in this photo. Can you believe how well they match? And how clean they look? Impressive.

And, because it's the national, I'm willing to cut my rates for this photo.... to $2.00 per "peep". It's on the honor system... so if you look at this picture, you need to send me $2.00, which shall be donated to the Canine Health Foundation.











Stirring the pot is an art, regards-


----------



## DEDEYE

JusticeDog said:


> Commercial = "For Sale" And the issue was over Commercial Photos...... which none of those are being posted here.... (or the thoughts of commercial photos being posted here was giving someone the willies) all photos have been put in the public domain via the internet....
> 
> Silliness, yet again. People who like to bully have no control over anything else in their lives.
> 
> So, I am quite willing to post my National Photo, of excellent quality here... It's quite valuable. Some of the Ikons of the sport have been involved in this photo.... Danny Farmer and his father Charlie Hays, Bill Sargenti, Ray Voight, our own Jimmie Darnell, have all taken part in some very important "paperwork" at the location shown in this photo. Can you believe how well they match? And how clean they look? Impressive.
> 
> And, because it's the national, I'm willing to cut my rates for this photo.... to $2.00 per "peep". It's on the honor system... so if you look at this picture, you need to send me $2.00, which shall be donated to the Canine Health Foundation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stirring the pot is an art, regards-


That's awesome.. HAHAHAHAHAHAH! Give you my $2.00 later...


----------



## Howard N

Justice, I'm gonna have to owe it to you too.


----------



## cotts135

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post


> Sleeper pick and right now not getting alot of attention:
> 
> 88 FC- NAFTCH-FTCH-AFTCH L And L Black Tie Affair





Lee W said:


> Why would you say this dog is a sleeper pick ?



Just basing it on the number of picks I seen he had on the pick em on Entry Express and also his run in the third series that I witnessed.


----------



## YardleyLabs

JusticeDog said:


> Commercial = "For Sale" And the issue was over Commercial Photos...... which none of those are being posted here.... (or the thoughts of commercial photos being posted here was giving someone the willies) all photos have been put in the public domain via the internet....
> 
> Silliness, yet again. People who like to bully have no control over anything else in their lives.
> 
> So, I am quite willing to post my National Photo, of excellent quality here... It's quite valuable. Some of the Ikons of the sport have been involved in this photo.... Danny Farmer and his father Charlie Hays, Bill Sargenti, Ray Voight, our own Jimmie Darnell, have all taken part in some very important "paperwork" at the location shown in this photo. Can you believe how well they match? And how clean they look? Impressive.
> 
> And, because it's the national, I'm willing to cut my rates for this photo.... to $2.00 per "peep". It's on the honor system... so if you look at this picture, you need to send me $2.00, which shall be donated to the Canine Health Foundation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stirring the pot is an art, regards-


As I understand the definition, commercial does not refer to whether or not photos are ultimately sold but whether the venue for display is seen as being commercially driven by advertising, and competitive with RN's own commercially driven web sites. As was said to me, sponsors of the event pay for traffic on the RN web sites and do not want to see that traffic going elsewhere. My own web site is not seen as commercial since it carries no advertising and only includes my own photography. RTF is seen by some of those related to RN as a direct competitor. 

Ironically, after I posted my photos from pre-National training on RTF, I was invited down to the National to take photos for Retriever News and was promised good physical access in return for providing photos for the RN sites and magazine. This was not an invitation I expected or sought out.

I accepted the invitation. When I arrived, I asked about the potential conflict with Molly since I have the utmost respect for her and her photography (a point I made in postings here when she was originally appointed last year). I was told that there would be no conflict since she would be tied up taking the formal portraits. At that time I was also told about the concerns about any posting of my National photos on RTF. Apparently, I was the first person to tell Molly that I had been invited down and she was understandably upset since she is the official photographer and has invested a lot of time and money to be there. She complained. I was told by the Committee that based on her contract it would not be fair for me to have any access beyond that generally available in the gallery. I was asked to take no photos while working as a marshal and was asked not to take any photos that would compete directly with the official portraits that Molly was taking as competitors left the line (something I had never planned on doing). I was asked to purchase a "sponsorship" for the week since I was selling my pictures, and I did so. 

I will add, that I had no problems at all with these restrictions. I believe that Molly's official role carries some appropriate privileges. I only wish her official duties allowed her to spend more time near the line taking action shots since she is a very good photographer and I would love to see them posted. As a photographer, I was perfectly willing to accept an offer of closer access, but I did not seek it out.

The individual who invited me down also approached me that morning. He said that RN had exclusive rights to publicize the National and that if I posted any of my photos on RTF I would be expelled from the site of the trial and sued. For that reason and that reason only, I have not posted any of my photos from the National here. However, they are posted on my own web site. For anyone who has not read the site's terms and conditions, I allow my photos to be used on other web sites as long as credit is given (my photos are NOT in the public domain) and they are not being used for commercial purposes (including, for example, advertising a litter) without explicit permission, which I generally provide. 

I have allowed my photos to be used by Retriever News without limitation and will continue to do so, just as I would be happy to provide Chris and RTF or the AKC a right to use my photos without limitation. I believe I have a special debt to the retriever community and the institutions that support it. They give me the opportunity to take the pictures I love and a place to run my dogs. It is also the community that buys the pups that I breed. Anything I can do that helps stimulate interest in our events and activities as a community ultimately benefits me. While I understand the narrow competitive argument used as a justification for threatening me, I do not agree with it. It uses too narrow a definition of competitiveness, thinking that we, the fans, will go to only one site or the other. The reality is that those of us who love this sport are hungry for details and we will go everywhere that satisfies our craving. 

When I post my pictures on RTF, traffic on my own web site increases dramatically. When Retriever News invests in creating great content like Vicky's blog, their traffic increases. It is not a zero sum game. Anything that increases traffic in one area stimulates interest and everyone benefits. That's why you see so many photographers standing on the sidelines at sports competitions. The teams have learned that nothing drives traffic better to the "official" products and services than independent publications that help create more excitement. I believe Retriever News and the national clubs could learn from their example.

For now, however, I will defer from posting my own National photos here. I am not willing to be sued and would prefer not to be expelled from the grounds.


----------



## Grant Wilson

That's frikin' nuts. This is exactly why I do not get involve in FT's anymore than 'show up, run my dogs, and go home". Some people can complicate the most simple things.


----------



## ErinsEdge

> I believe Retriever News and the national clubs could learn from their example.


Wow, way to generate subscriptions....not!


----------



## Franco

What controversy did I miss?

Someone shoot me a PM.


----------



## K G

As I told a high ranking official of RN, WRC's traffic would be a FRACTION of what it is this week were it not for RTF.

When folks have not planned for eventualities, they panic when they have to make decisions about subject matter and media with which they are not familiar. Sponsors who "complain" when material (visual and descriptive) from their "exclusive" venue appears on a COMPANION, not competing, website are suffering from the most severe shortsightedness. The National lasts ONE WEEK; people's negative memories and PERCEPTION of the actions taken to keep their venue proprietary can last MUCH longer.

Where has this discontent in the past? Haven't the blog reports been sponsored before? If so, why didn't those sponsors raise cain? Or could there be an underlying reason WHY officials with the National Retriever Club don't want RTF associated with this event? 

As a sponsor, I would not want a negative user experience associated with the name I have spent so much money to brand and promote OUTSIDE of this event. RTF sends people to WRC with every post to see MORE pictures and coverage of the event, thereby exposing the sponsor's logo with each "click." Each "click" creates an "impression." Advertising is about creating multiple "impressions." Any sponsor who doesn't see the value in RTF's posts about the National might also have a hard time seeing the potential long-term NEGATIVE impact their name might suffer having been associated with what has been termed as "bullying." Consumers express their approval, or disapproval, with their pocketbooks and wallets.

Perhaps the sponsors are kicking themselves because they didn't chose to ALSO advertise on RTF for this week. I can just about GUARANTEE you Chris Atkinson could/would have found a way for the sponsors to tie in to the National coverage thread....which would then have brought even MORE exposure to their brand AND the WRC website. I don't think the NRC would have told the sponsors that they could ONLY advertise their products or their sponsorship of the National on WRC...

All that matters in advertising is 1) what you say, 2) how many times you say it, and 3) who you say it to. Missed opportunities that can be learned from at least provide the chance to avoid making the same mistake twice. 

Advertising and Marketing 101 regards, ;-)

kg


----------



## goldngirl

Don't think there are any "Rugs" at the Natl, but ask BAIT as he is there throwing birds. He would know forsure.


----------



## moonstonelabs

Jeff -- I was sent a photo of #61 MOONSTONES Ignites on Impact "FLINT" which you took during pre-national training, also posted on here with your photos...

Because Flint is one of our pups, I have that photo of Flint on my home page and have given you credit as the photographer...I'll add a link to your website. Hope this is okay - if not let me know.

Sarita


----------



## YardleyLabs

moonstonelabs said:


> Jeff -- I was sent a photo of #61 MOONSTONES Ignites on Impact "FLINT" which you took during pre-national training, also posted on here with your photos...
> 
> Because Flint is one of our pups, I have that photo of Flint on my home page and have given you credit as the photographer...I'll add a link to your website. Hope this is okay - if not let me know.
> 
> Sarita


It's perfectly OK. I will admit that I love wandering through the Internet and stumbling on one of my pictures. The only time I got irritated was when I had a litter of "Rough" puppies that I was selling and received a copy of a brochure that someone had put together for their own litter of Rough puppies using my photos without permission. I increasingly embed a copyright notice on my photos only because there is legislation pending that would remove copyright protection for what are called "orphan" photos -- photos where it is not possible to determine ownership. Under current copyright law, no such notice is required.


----------



## Pete

> That's frikin' nuts. This is exactly why I do not get involve in FT's anymore than 'show up, run my dogs, and go home". Some people can complicate the most simple things


 Yep,, Thats the problem with todays world,,,nothing is simple anymore,

I didnt think the NRC was a profit making buisiness or a secret society. I Didn't know the supporting clubs were either,,, ,, sounds like the government workings here.

This is the way I look at it,,, they not only get to advertise on there own web site ,,but other websites are advertising their product for free.

W hen it first started following the first few days of the national I was planning on renewing and my FTN subscription,,,now I cant get this taste out of my mouth,

Unfortunately this sounds like it has nothing to do with dogs or with people,,, or even with most of the contestant there ,,,,,its all about money and prestige
Go figure

Pete


----------



## YardleyLabs

DarrinGreene said:


> It would seem to me that the vendor selection process, specifically in the area of event photography is somewhat flawed...
> 
> To appoint an "official photographer" that can not provide the appropriate support for the event (portraits, action photos, etc) that is required to adequately publicize it, is the real issue here in my mind as a professional marketer.
> 
> Whether that's Jeff or anyone else is irrelevant, as a new person in the sport who has the ability to actually visit the grounds (and throw some birds), I am dissapointed in the lack of quality photos I have found to be available, given the POTENTIAL for them to exist.
> 
> I'm SURE there is some politics involved in the appointment I'm not aware of and forgive the toes I just stepped on but...
> 
> As well organized as this event appears to be you would think... there would be adequate photography / film available...
> 
> Imagine the TV series that could be created...
> 
> Oh wait... someone already did that.


Actually, Darin, I think Molly was a great selection, and I believe her selection was simply an effort to get the best person for the job after problems developed with a prior selection. Molly took the photos at the Master National for the last two years and at the NARC earlier this year. She has been taking photos of dogs in hunt tests for several years and understands what is needed to get good shots of dogs in action. She has and breeds Goldens herself and her father is very active in the retriever community. 

Unfortunately, it may be that two photographers are needed to do the whole job well since there is a need for formal portraits (the traditional photos of the handler with the number in front posed with the dog), general gallery and workers photos, color shots, etc. The income for the photographer comes from selling pictures, so a lot of time also goes into selling. It may be that the revenue potential from selling pictures simply isn't great enough to support two photographers. The gap has been filled by Vicky Lamb shooting pictures from the line that are being posted as part of her blog. Vicky is a really good writer, but doesn't take action photos in the way that either Molly or I would.


----------



## FOM

Sorry for not posting updates, I am not a morning person....but so far since the action resumed there is been 2 dogs break (77, 82) and a handle (7)

Also anyone know what's causing all the no-birds? Weather?

FOM


----------



## david gibson

YardleyLabs said:


> As I understand the definition, commercial does not refer to whether or not photos are ultimately sold but whether the venue for display is seen as being commercially driven by advertising...*.snipped - post 254..*...For now, however, I will defer from posting my own National photos here. I am not willing to be sued and would prefer not to be expelled from the grounds.


i am sure someone somewhere took an action shot of a winning dog and sold it to Purina or someone that promoted it in an ad and that started the whole issue.

I think they may need to be a bit more consistent in their policies - or lack thereof. i shot some pics last year at the NRC, was promptly approached by an official (Mark) and was politely asked if i was going to be posting them on a commercial site etc. assured him i was not, and posted several here. no issues, i didnt sell any, nothing. only myself and another guy with a mega lens as well were shootin the 2nd to last series - who was also approached in the same manner. it was all calm, polite, professional, no biggie and we continued to shoot with no issues. there were no other photographers there with a lens that could capture action like we had, so the official photographer at that event was only doing portraits i guess. i would certainly not say we were threatened with any course of action, but we were politely told that if we were intending to use the photos in a commercial manner we would be asked to leave. so between last and this year there seems to be seismic shift with threatening expulsion and a lawsuit for posting on RTF. so maybe the photographer from last year complained because i posted pics here on RTF??

there is really no way one photographer can cover the entire event. and seeing it is a private event i can certainly understand them wanting some control, but posting on RTF does nothing but positively promote the event IMO.

i talked with an official about the MN and was told they had an official photographer that would be doing portraits as well as action and that it would be very strictly controlled, i just wanted to go shoot some of the folks i knew running, but after the discussion i felt very uncomfortable about even doing that so i didnt even go.

they ought to look at what Dockdogs does - they have certain, qualified individuals on board as official "affiliated photographers", a signed waiver is on file with all agreements on how photos can be used. they frequently ask that you provide them with shots of certain events for publication on their website and magazine. they dont pay for the use, but you are allowed to sell privately to any handler. 

maybe NRC could have only one official portrait and award event photographer but allow random action by "affiliates" like Dockdogs does, sure its not one size fits all but there must be a fair and equitable way to work it. there are plenty of good photographers around in the games but the number with the right equipment to really do a good job of the action is a little more exclusive. why not encourage rather than discourage the added coverage??


----------



## Sharon Potter

We just went through this with our National horse show not long ago. They were even forbidding owners to video their horse's (or their children showing their horse!) class from the stands or take pictures...only the official photographer and their staff were allowed. Problem is, lots of the competitiors don't get any pics then, because the official photographer couldn't shoot every single horse...so after qualifying and making the long trip, there were no photos. The membership raised such an uproar that the rule was rescinded. 

As someone who sometimes photographs events, I kinda like it when others are shooting too....raises the bar and makes me work harder to get great shots if I've got a little competition.

Heck, I'd shoot the NRC just for the fun of it!


----------



## mcnaugt

How about them dogs and handlers. I would have loved to be there and watch some the best dogs and handlers.... It's all about the dogs playing the game...


----------



## K G

Sharon Potter said:


> As someone who sometimes photographs events, I kinda like it when others are shooting too....raises the bar and makes me work harder to get great shots if I've got a little competition.
> 
> Heck, I'd shoot the NRC just for the fun of it!


So what if they did just that....had several photographers who were willing to shoot "just for the fun of it" AND the attribution. Have an "official" photographer that does the National portraits and is paid for it, but have folks there that would contribute to a "picture scrapbook" if you will. RN could produce a video disk that THEY could edit and have creative control over and then SELL it via RN and WRC...a profit center that would cost them virtually nothing.

Does that make too much sense? ;-)

Oh..and mcnaught, you're exactly right....if it were only that simple....

kg


----------



## njord4

I've been following this NRC for the first time... (new to FTs) -

What is a no-bird?


----------



## K G

njord4 said:


> I've been following this NRC for the first time... (new to FTs) -
> 
> What is a no-bird?


When the judges (any one of them or all of them) determine that the throw (arc/distance/angle, etc) or fall of the bird creates a situation that is unfair for the competing dog....usually happens with a flier, and more often with pheasants than with ducks. That's the nutshell version, anyway...;-)

It can also happen with the misfire of a popper gun on a dead bird station.

kg


----------



## YardleyLabs

njord4 said:


> I've been following this NRC for the first time... (new to FTs) -
> 
> What is a no-bird?


A bird is thrown in a way that makes the test unfair in the opinion of the judges. The throwers at the National are some of the best anywhere but problems still arise, particularly with live birds (flyers) that decide to turn where they were not supposed to or succeed in getting away.


----------



## Sharon Potter

K G said:


> So what if they did just that....had several photographers who were willing to shoot "just for the fun of it" AND the attribution. Have an "official" photographer that does the National portraits and is paid for it, but have folks there that would contribute to a "picture scrapbook" if you will. RN could produce a video disk that THEY could edit and have creative control over and then SELL it via RN and WRC...a profit center that would cost them virtually nothing.
> 
> Does that make too much sense? ;-)
> 
> Oh..and mcnaught, you're exactly right....if it were only that simple....
> 
> kg



Whoa there...stop the train.  

I'd gladly shoot the NRC just for the fun of it....and provide pics via email for owners/handlers that they could do what they want with. And I'd not be adverse to posting them on RTF, either....but I'd draw the line at doing it as a freebie and then _letting someone else profit from them_. 

Now if those who would want to profit from them want to pick up the tab for all expenses...plane, car, motel. meals, etc, we could talk.


----------



## JusticeDog

YardleyLabs said:


> As I understand the definition, commercial does not refer to whether or not photos are ultimately sold but whether the venue for display is seen as being commercially driven by advertising, and competitive with RN's own commercially driven web sites. As was said to me, sponsors of the event pay for traffic on the RN web sites and do not want to see that traffic going elsewhere.


Jeff- I gave the very simplistic view.... because ultimately, it does all boil down to money... people are being very short sighted, and again, we want more national coverage not less.

IF the RN, NRC were attempting to foster any type of comraderie, I think people would feel differently about the WRC, RN, etc. I also believe that it would draw more hits to their own website, as opposed to drive it away.

For one minute I do not believe that any sponsor is complaining because someone posted a Eukanuba banner photo on RTF.... and the gained an extra 20,000 looks for FREE. That would be just plain stupid. 

I do believe that the National should have 2 photographers... one to do the portraits, and one to do action shots. We do not get the opportunity too often to get quality action shots of our dogs, and I do not believe that people still wouldn't want the memory of a portrait photo of Fido at the national.

The behaviors that have come out of this National is leaving a bad taste in many peoples' mouths...... and as someone pointed out.... that takes a long time to get rid of..... I personally believe that this type of behavior drags us into the porta-potties that I posted a picture of... 

And since mine is a commercial photo......ya'll better just pay up and send me that $2.00..... those IOUs won't cut it, and don't be asking for discounts.... it's for charity.


----------



## JusticeDog

K G said:


> So what if they did just that....had several photographers who were willing to shoot "just for the fun of it" AND the attribution. Have an "official" photographer that does the National portraits and is paid for it, but have folks there that would contribute to a "picture scrapbook" if you will. RN could produce a video disk that THEY could edit and have creative control over and then SELL it via RN and WRC...a profit center that would cost them virtually nothing.
> 
> Does that make too much sense? ;-)


Hey Keith... that's a great idea......  Hope someone reads this....


----------



## Jeff Huntington

Go #50 Drake...


I know I'm rooting for a brown dog


----------



## Pete

Here is a little story about corprate america or shoud I say the corprate mentality

There once was a little bar and grill near Alpine wyo. or the star valley area. Pretty rural as far as the rest of the country is concerned.

It provided the locals with food and beer.
The name of this place was "JEEPS" It had been called jeeps before crysler made jeeps so the local folklore goes.
Chysler got a sniff of this and brought a Lawsuit before the owner ,,who's Last name was Jeep I believe.. Its been a long time so some of this could be a little out of skew. The lawsuit was not.

Chrysler wanted to have JEEPS change the name of its bar and grill because they felt it was infringing on their name and or capitolizing on it.
I wonder how many jeeps were sold in that little podunk vally after that.
Its a good thing Chrysler hired Iococa to save their arse

Pete


----------



## AmiableLabs

Hmmm.....

If a photographer from the _Boston Globe_ (newspaper) showed up at the NRC and took photos, would an NRC official threaten a lawsuit if the reporter posted the pics to the paper's commercial website? Or would the club and the sponsors welcome the publicity?

In those terms, what is the difference between the newspaper's website and some other commercial website? Isn't it worth the positive publicity?


----------



## Jim Pickering

FOM said:


> Sorry for not posting updates, I am not a morning person....but so far since the action resumed there is been 2 dogs break (77, 82) and a handle (7)


As respects the breaks at least three on this test thus far. I personally question a 60 yard flyer at a national or any field trial for that matter. Yes a dog should be steady, but . . . I am especially surprised that Joe Broyles would agree to such a test given that his dog can creep damn near that far. :razz:




> Also anyone know what's causing all the no-birds? Weather?
> 
> FOM


I am not there so do not know, but when the first few dogs got no birds my first thoughts were that it is the day after the party and maybe some partied too hardy  or that maybe the elite gun crew is getting up in years. However, most likely it is the conditions and the test.

IMHO any time you shoot a flyer into a test you are asking for trouble especially when pheasants are involved. Typically the guns and throwers are good enough at a national to get by with it, but there has been a wind shift with increased velocity since yesterday. A pheasant wants to fly with the wind and with the wind “in their face” they are trying to shoot both flyers into the wind. The Flyer shooters and throwers will earn their money today.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Pete said:


> Here is a little story about corprate america or shoud I say the corprate mentality. . . .


Let's not threadjack.

But I do want to say while cases like that are not all that unusual, they are also usually not the fault of the corporation itself but instead some underling lawyer trying to justify his/her place on the payroll.


----------



## FOM

Jim Pickering said:


> Typically the guns and throwers are good enough at a national to get by with it, but there has been a wind shift with increased velocity since yesterday. A pheasant wants to fly with the wind and with the wind “in their face” they are trying to shoot both flyers into the wind. The Flyer shooters and throwers will earn their money today.


I was thinking it might be the weather....I know the gunners are beating themselves up for the no-birds.....no gunner I know likes that to happen, I feel for them!

FOM


----------



## K G

Speaking of the worker's party, wonder where the pictures are of that?

Or do we get to wait for the National issue of RN to come up to see them........at least they'll have captions...;-)

kg


----------



## WRL

I believe in order to ban the taking of "unauthorized" photos, it has to be announced or posted. If anyone here has every been to a concert, you see signs EVERYWHERE that cameras are not allowed and no pictures are to be taken.

I don't believe there is any legal basis for any of this. 

This is just more unfortunate BS that is being promoted. It definitely leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Without Lainee and Jeff posting on RTF, their site would not have 1/10th of the traffic this week that they have had. That site is all but dead except the weeks of the Nat'ls.

WRL


----------



## Tom D

I can't speak for what's going on with the no birds today but the wind was a factor last night. I was on the right live flyer station and it took a lot of adjusting to keep the birds in the same area.
Pheasant are tough enough with out wind. As Lainee put gunners don't want to hear NO BIRD anymore than a handler


----------



## Matt McKenzie

What a shame. Never underestimate the stupidity of people in groups.


----------



## Lance-CO

WRL said:


> I believe in order to ban the taking of "unauthorized" photos, it has to be announced or posted. If anyone here has every been to a concert, you see signs EVERYWHERE that cameras are not allowed and no pictures are to be taken.
> 
> I don't believe there is any legal basis for any of this.
> 
> This is just more unfortunate BS that is being promoted. It definitely leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
> 
> Without Lainee and Jeff posting on RTF, their site would not have 1/10th of the traffic this week that they have had. That site is all but dead except the weeks of the Nat'ls.
> 
> WRL


Interesting, if we could just scrap WRC site, except for Vickies Blog, and have RTF take over the Nat'ls coverage. I think RTF could do a better job promoting FTs and get more sponsors to participate.


----------



## Steve Amrein

WRL said:


> I believe in order to ban the taking of "unauthorized" photos, it has to be announced or posted. If anyone here has every been to a concert, you see signs EVERYWHERE that cameras are not allowed and no pictures are to be taken.
> 
> I don't believe there is any legal basis for any of this.
> 
> This is just more unfortunate BS that is being promoted. It definitely leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
> 
> Without Lainee and Jeff posting on RTF, their site would not have 1/10th of the traffic this week that they have had. That site is all but dead except the weeks of the Nat'ls.
> 
> WRL


 
X2

Fits right in with the whole picture (pardon the pun)


----------



## DarrinGreene

YardleyLabs said:


> Actually, Darin, I think Molly was a great selection, and I believe her selection was simply an effort to get the best person for the job after problems developed with a prior selection.


I don't know Molly at all and certainly wasn't questioning her ability, nor touting yours Jeff.

I am just a marketing guy at heart and would want a good supply of action shots, portraits and some film to be used in my marketing effort, were I the National Club or the AKC.

How that is accomplished is quite irrelevant as long as it's accomplished. You can use 1, two or even three vendors, but where it me, I would want a single "vendor" that could cover all those bases with multiple people in the field. 

Having said all that I know there are folks who are "dog people" who have made and been making contributions to the sport over the years and certainly deserve strong consideration for those limited opportunities. 

I'm sure Molly is doing an awesome job or she would not have been appointed. I also don't question whatever decisions were made. Monday morning quarterbacks are 1 in a million. 

I can just never get away from that marketing guy deep down inside who says...

DARN what a missed opportunity!


----------



## FOM

Breck said:


> Has anyone gone back and read Post #1?


Ding, ding we have a winner...


----------



## JusticeDog

K G said:


> Speaking of the worker's party, wonder where the pictures are of that?
> 
> Or do we get to wait for the National issue of RN to come up to see them........at least they'll have captions...;-)
> 
> kg


What happens in Delaware stays in Delaware......


----------



## Bubba

Any one else notice that of the 7 National Champions that started only one is still playing?

No repeats regards

Bubba


----------



## crackerd

K G said:


> Speaking of the worker's party, wonder where the pictures are of that?





JusticeDog said:


> What happens in Delaware stays in Delaware......


Especially if it happens at the Leipsic Fire Hall with a fare of oysters on the half-shell.;-)

Unincriminated (so far) regards,

MG


----------



## Kim Williams

The longest retired gun so far has been 285 yards but just 2 weeks ago at the SRS, the longest was 466 yards, Are the SRS dogs that much better?


----------



## Pete

> If a photographer from the _Boston Globe_ (newspaper) showed up at the NRC and took photos, would an NRC official threaten a lawsuit if the reporter posted the pics to the paper's commercial website? Or would the club and the sponsors welcome the publicity


Yes of coarse it would be wrong,,,sorry I didnt realize the people taking pictures were from some corprate enterprise
p


----------



## YardleyLabs

Kim Williams said:


> The longest retired gun so far has been 285 yards but just 2 weeks ago at the SRS, the longest was 466 yards, Are the SRS dogs that much better?


Don't underestimate the power of bird placement. The National judges are masters at using bird placement to test the limits of a dog's ability.


----------



## Jay Hinton

In SRS, a whistle blown is not a trip home.


----------



## FOM

Kim Williams said:


> The longest retired gun so far has been 285 yards but just 2 weeks ago at the SRS, the longest was 466 yards, Are the SRS dogs that much better?


 

We really do need a popcorn eating icon....


----------



## FOM

The 6th series is done....we now wait for callbacks!


----------



## Pete

> But I do want to say while cases like that are not all that unusual, they are also usually not the fault of the corporation itself but instead some underling lawyer trying to justify his/her place on the payroll


So its lawers that make the final decision who to sue or not to,, I wish some lawer would come here and order me to make lawsuits,,, my bad I didnt know it worked that way. I always thought it was the guy in charge that had the final decision.
I'm just a simpleton sorry my bad

This thread was highjacked 2 days ago.

p


----------



## Juli H

Kim Williams said:


> The longest retired gun so far has been 285 yards but just 2 weeks ago at the SRS, the longest was 466 yards, Are the SRS dogs that much better?


 
It is debated just how much of a mark of this distance a dog even sees and much depends on the background behind the mark....I personally think it has more to do with teaching the dog to run a straight line...would that same dog see the mark if the guns were hidden? (shots and calls before hand to help the dog look out to the area).

when a dog has a good clear view of a mark, then you are really testing marking ability.

Juli


----------



## BonMallari

Kim Williams said:


> The longest retired gun so far has been 285 yards but just 2 weeks ago at the SRS, the longest was 466 yards, Are the SRS dogs that much better?



save it for another thread , dont hijack the National thread...


----------



## Rick_C

Prior to the National I was told by a pro (not running a dog) to expect shorter, more technical marks rather than long, just for the sake of being long, marks based on the judges this year, Mr Volstead in particular. It seems that, by the photo's, drawings and discriptions, that's certainly the case.


----------



## FOM

dogs lost in the 6th series: 2, 7, 19, 23, 38, 46, 49, 50, 66, 77, 82, 85, 88


----------



## K G

BonMallari said:


> save it for another thread , dont hijack the National thread...



C'mon, Bon...that was the funniest thing I've seen posted yet!!!

kg


----------



## Franco

K G said:


> C'mon, Bon...that was the funniest thing I've seen posted yet!!!
> 
> kg


And, don't forget that the ground is still saturated and much of the grounds are not accessable to the judges. 

Comparing SRS dogs to dogs running the National is like comparing kindergarden to Graduate School.


----------



## Lance-CO

Darn, I was routing for #46 to make it to the finals or win, I had the honor of running him during training and he made me look good despite my inexperience as a handler.


----------



## EdA

Rick_C said:


> Prior to the National I was told by a pro (not running a dog) to expect shorter, more technical marks rather than long, just for the sake of being long, marks based on the judges this year, Mr Volstead in particular. It seems that, by the photo's, drawings and discriptions, that's certainly the case.


the grounds (flat, visibility due to trees in the background, and size of the fields) dictate the length of marks more than philosophy and last time I checked there were 3 judges


----------



## Kim Williams

If only 4 dogs handled on that quad, I would think the judges put the birds where the dogs wanted to go.


----------



## john fallon

john fallon said:


> At 3 pm today it was sunny, 60° and the wind was reported as being from the SE at about 6 mph
> 
> At 7 am tomorrow the forecast is for cloudy conditions, 50° temps. and a ENE wind at about 7 mph then swinging back toward the east. Due E by 9 am and ESE by 11.and should stay that way for the hour or two that it will take to finish the test.
> A light to moderate rain is slated to arrive at about mid day and continue into the evening
> 
> *It will be interesting to read if and how much these changes effect the work *.
> 
> john





Vickie Lamb @ 9:27 AM said:


> From Judge Joe Broyles...
> 
> ..."For a test everyone was doing last night, the wheels seem to have come off somewhat today.
> 
> 
> 
> "
Click to expand...


I guess that answers my question.;-) Something about them weather fronts.... 

Who'da thunk it regards

john


----------



## DarrinGreene

Breck said:


> Has anyone gone back and read Post #1?



Whatcha doin here then Breck?


----------



## K G

Kim Williams said:


> If only 4 dogs handled on that quad, I would think the judges put the birds where the dogs wanted to go.


If you "think" that WHERE you put the birds is the only thing that makes a set of marks doable, you don't know much about field trial marks.

Multiple factors regards, 

kg


----------



## FOM

Kim Williams said:


> If only 4 dogs handled on that quad, I would think the judges put the birds where the dogs wanted to go.


Just because a dog did not handle does not mean there were not hunts on the birds?

You're kidding right?

FOM


----------



## labraiser

I was there and I can tell you that some dogs did real well and some just got by without handling. So unless you are there, you can't make comments about how hard a test is.


----------



## DarrinGreene

EdA said:


> the grounds (flat, visibility due to trees in the background, and size of the fields) dictate the length of marks more than philosophy and last time I checked there were 3 judges



not really Ed. The first property, in particular has the potential for some very long marks if that's what the judges had decided to do. Series 3 across the pond could easily have been made double or even triple the distance if so desired.

steve's place is a bit smaller and more technical but there is still room if you want to get over 300 yds.


----------



## Juli H

FOM said:


> Just because a dog did not handle does not mean there were not hunts on the birds?
> 
> You're kidding right?
> 
> FOM


ditto.....


One wouldn't think the caliber of dogs running would have anything to do with it (lack of handles)? LOL!

Juli


----------



## K G

labraiser said:


> I was there and I can tell you that some dogs did real well and some just got by without handling. So unless you are there, you can't make comments about how hard a test is.


Checking a person's post history will tell you a LOT about what they will choose to comment on, Labraiser.....;-)....just sayin'.....

kg


----------



## huntinman

I think "Kim Williams" is just stirring the pot...

On another note, there are 7 Am handlers still alive... good luck to all of them. Also pulling for Bill Sargenti, Bill Totten, and Dave Mosher (or Mark if he's running the dog)


----------



## K G

huntinman said:


> I think "Kim Williams" is just stirring the pot...


...and with a RUBBER stick at that! 

kg


----------



## labraiser

I know, somtimes i just laugh when we people post on how hard as test was and their not even there to see all the factors involved.


----------



## Frenchy

Kim Williams said:


> If only 4 dogs handled on that quad, I would think the judges put the birds where the dogs wanted to go.


Look closer there were 13 national caliber dogs that didn't survive that test.

More to a test than just who handled.


----------



## john fallon

huntinman said:


> I think "Kim Williams" is just stirring the pot...
> 
> On another note, there are 7 Am handlers still alive... good luck to all of them. Also pulling for Bill Sargenti, Bill Totten, and Dave Mosher (or Mark if he's running the dog)


Good !!!! These "pots" on here _often_ need a good stirrin'.

john


----------



## FOM

So will this 7th series, be the 7th and 8th series combined? Or will it be a 7th only?

Lainee


----------



## Juli H

says on the report that it is 7th and 8th....


http://www.working-retriever.com/09nrc/report/

Juli


----------



## BonMallari

got 4 dogs left on my EE pick em,sure would like to see an Amateur handler win this thing


----------



## FOM

Juli H said:


> says on the report that it is 7th and 8th....
> 
> Juli


Yeah, but is that the official word?


----------



## Juli H

ha ha... good question......

Juli


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

BonMallari said:


> got 4 dogs left on my EE pick em,sure would like to see an Amateur handler win this thing


I'm surprised. How many do you have left on the RFT pickem...?

/Paul


----------



## john fallon

FOM said:


> Yeah, but is that the official word?


It's on the WRC Report, How much more *offical* can it get ?

john


----------



## BonMallari

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> I'm surprised. How many do you have left on the RFT pickem...?
> 
> /Paul


Do you mean the unauthorized , unlicensed, bootleg version


----------



## EdA

FOM said:


> Yeah, but is that the official word?


tomorrow is Friday, does not need to be official, if they had the time or the need they could have 11 series but they could not have 9


----------



## badbullgator

john fallon said:


> It's on the WRC Report, How much more *offical* can it get ?
> 
> john


 
I hear they have a good entry service too.......
Very active forums as well


----------



## Bait

Jim Pickering said:


> Typically the guns and throwers are good enough at a national to get by with it, but there has been a wind shift with increased velocity since yesterday. A pheasant wants to fly with the wind and with the wind “in their face” they are trying to shoot both flyers into the wind. The Flyer shooters and throwers will earn their money today.


BINGO! We have a winner! Good call, Jim. And....................................
What money?


----------



## Bait

goldngirl said:


> Don't think there are any "Rugs" at the Natl, but ask BAIT as he is there throwing birds. He would know forsure.


Nope. No rugs, Michelle. But, Maybe we'll see Dixie there in a couple years. 
BAIT


----------



## Howard N

Bait said:


> BINGO! We have a winner! Good call, Jim. And....................................
> What money?


Bait, din't they at least feed you?


----------



## scott spalding

All I have to say is what a good time. It was a real treat to be lucky enough to be there. Thanks to the judges land owners and workers all were top notch if you ask me. Drake had a big hunt on the middle bird in the fifth that was going to catch him sooner or later. All I can say is thanks to everyone that took part it was a real treat.
________
CHARGEBACK INSURANCE ADVICE


----------



## K G

badbullgator said:


> I hear they have a good entry service too.......
> Very active forums as well


OUCH..._that_ is gonna leave a mark....;-)

kg


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Bait said:


> BINGO! We have a winner! Good call, Jim. And....................................
> What money?


 
Didn't you get paid?????? Poor Bait....guess they heard about that blind you were suppose to plant!


----------



## JeffLusk

scott spalding said:


> All I have to say is what a good time. It was a real treat to be lucky enough to be there. Thanks to the judges land owners and workers all were top notch if you ask me. Drake had a big hunt on the middle bird in the fifth that was going to catch him sooner or later. All I can say is thanks to everyone that took part it was a real treat.


Give drake a pat on the head and go shoot some ducks for him. 
He's done one hell of a job this year!! Hopefully next year he can be there again.


----------



## Vicky Trainor

scott spalding said:


> All I have to say is what a good time. It was a real treat to be lucky enough to be there. Thanks to the judges land owners and workers all were top notch if you ask me. Drake had a big hunt on the middle bird in the fifth that was going to catch him sooner or later. All I can say is thanks to everyone that took part it was a real treat.


Scott,

I was the Marshal at the second holding blind when Drake came up to run. I wondered about that large hunt on that middle bird and what a toll it might take.  As I said when Drake was in the holding blind, there were a lot of people rooting for him!


----------



## lanse brown

Pete said:


> Yep,, Thats the problem with todays world,,,nothing is simple anymore,
> 
> I didnt think the NRC was a profit making buisiness or a secret society. I Didn't know the supporting clubs were either,,, ,, sounds like the government workings here.
> 
> This is the way I look at it,,, they not only get to advertise on there own web site ,,but other websites are advertising their product for free.
> 
> W hen it first started following the first few days of the national I was planning on renewing and my FTN subscription,,,now I cant get this taste out of my mouth,
> 
> Unfortunately this sounds like it has nothing to do with dogs or with people,,, or even with most of the contestant there ,,,,,its all about money and prestige
> Go figure
> 
> Pete


Money and Prestige? Why would you say that when one owner has 6 dogs entered and has never trained any of them, let alone loved any in their house. No this is not about the love of the dogs, it is not about the camadrie of training together it is about making money for the National Club to be able to give away donations, self support the egos that are involved and make sure the peasants who are told that to work is a honor and to shut up, pay for their own food and room. Having worked 16 different Nationals at my own expense I do not recall ever recieving a thank you by written letter.I was once told that that since my dog who had qualified and was deceased was not at the National I could not buy a National pin(Ihave 94 National pins with each dog's name engraved on each pin and the year it qualified) in a shadow box. The same group who tried to sell me tickets for their raffle and asked for donations to the RHOF. Don't kid yourself- look up who the SAME 5 people are that run the Labrador Club, the DoubleHeaders Club and the Retriever Hall of Fame admissions committee. What is is so shut up and be happy that you are asked to stay away from work and home and family inorder that those who have may sit in the gallery or at home while others work the trial and pros run their dogs. Just a larger edition of a weekend trial-100 dogs qualify for a National-25 could win it, 50 are good dogs and 25 got there because of luck,suck or/and politics. You will find that of the finalists 10 come from the top 25, and 2 or3 from the "good dogs" There's lots of luck and it usually costs me $4000 or more and 12 days of my life, so after qualifying for 53 Nationals and running 89 dogs and finishing 13 I now stay home. I don't have enough money to play in that prestigous league--and also I am an old fart who gets too tired,however I do work my dogs everyday and there is a love affair between myself and my dogs-that's all that matters to me or them.


----------



## YardleyLabs

Howard N said:


> Bait, din't they at least feed you?


Hat, shirt, ribbon, lunch if you are on the mid-day shift, and an excuse for being around some of the greatest retrievers, trainers and retriever people in the country.


----------



## Vicky Trainor

YardleyLabs said:


> Hat, shirt, ribbon, lunch if you are on the mid-day shift, and an excuse for being around some of the greatest retrievers, trainers and retriever people in the country.


You forgot the pin.


----------



## YardleyLabs

Vicky Trainor said:


> You forgot the pin.


Pin????? I didn't even get my shirt -- the downside of being too fat.


----------



## huntinman

scott spalding said:


> All I have to say is what a good time. It was a real treat to be lucky enough to be there. Thanks to the judges land owners and workers all were top notch if you ask me. Drake had a big hunt on the middle bird in the fifth that was going to catch him sooner or later. All I can say is thanks to everyone that took part it was a real treat.


Good run Scott, I was pulling for your boy.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Vicky Trainor said:


> As I said when Drake was in the holding blind, there were a lot of people rooting for him!


Yeah, like Sherri and me! He was our favorite.

Sherri and I immediately picked Drake out as that "special" puppy in the litter. He was a thinker and problem solver who was more interested in the humans than he was his littermates. When the litter went to Terri she too immediately picked out Drake as special for the very same reasons.

Scott, it was a good run. Congratulations, and we will tip a glass to his success tonight. With a lot more to come.

Now, go Charlie and Cody!


----------



## EdA

FOM said:


> Yeah, but is that the official word?





YardleyLabs said:


> Hat, shirt, ribbon, lunch if you are on the mid-day shift, and an excuse for being around some of the greatest retrievers, trainers and retriever people in the country.


And you did photos for free, what a deal

I wonder when they started supplying lunches to the common man, never got one myself except when I was The SOB in charge


----------



## BonMallari

EdA said:


> And you did photos for free, what a deal
> 
> I wonder when they started supplying lunches to the common man, never got one myself except when I was The SOB in charge


Ah yes but a good General always makes sure his troops get fed first


----------



## Pupknuckle

Does any one know where they will be on Friday?


----------



## scott spalding

AmiableLabs said:


> Yeah, like Sherri and me! He was our favorite.
> 
> Sherri and I immediately picked Drake out as that "special" puppy in the litter. He was a thinker and problem solver who was more interested in the humans than he was his littermates. When the litter went to Terri she too immediately picked out Drake as special for the very same reasons.
> 
> Scott, it was a good run. Congratulations, and we will tip a glass to his success tonight. With a lot more to come.
> 
> Now, go Charlie and Cody!


Ken Veach sent me a good luck charm. I am quite sure Terri was right there with us as promised. 

Thank you guys.
________
Granny Cams


----------



## Bait

YardleyLabs said:


> lunch


Lunch? I didn't see anybody get any lunches. Don't need to though. *****'s is right down the road. Some of us went on our off shift. Did get dinner at the workers party. 
And, Ed brought killer breakfast sandwiches today.


----------



## Bait

Vicky Trainor said:


> Didn't you get paid?????? Poor Bait....guess they heard about that blind you were suppose to plant!


Actually, I was getting paid, my full rate. My vacation days come in handy. 
And, no they wouldn't let me plant any blinds, Vicky. Good call.


----------



## Bubba

EdA said:


> And you did photos for free, what a deal
> 
> I wonder when they started supplying lunches to the common man, never got one myself except when I was The SOB in charge


Hey Doc-I think they ought to send you a pin for your "assistance" in getting the update fiasco settled.

Cease and desist my foot regards

Bubba


----------



## Vicky Trainor

AmiableLabs said:


> Now, go Charlie and Cody!


I have a couple of favorites and Charlie & Cody are one of them. The bond between those 2 was so evident in the little bit of time I got to talk with Charlie! Cody is such a sweetie!!


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Bait said:


> Lunch? I didn't see anybody get any lunches. Don't need to though. *****'s is right down the road. Some of us went on our off shift. Did get dinner at the workers party.
> And, Ed brought killer breakfast sandwiches today.


Geez Bait....they fed us a chicken salad pita, chips and a cup of oyster stew on Wednesday.


----------



## dogcommand

I've got to thank Lainee again for her running tally of the results of each series It is very well done and gives a quick easy to read summery. Good work Lainee.


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

lanse brown said:


> Money and Prestige? Why would you say that when one owner has 6 dogs entered and has never trained any of them, let alone loved any in their house. No this is not about the love of the dogs, it is not about the camadrie of training together it is about making money for the National Club to be able to give away donations, self support the egos that are involved and make sure the peasants who are told that to work is a honor and to shut up, pay for their own food and room. Having worked 16 different Nationals at my own expense I do not recall ever recieving a thank you by written letter.I was once told that that since my dog who had qualified and was deceased was not at the National I could not buy a National pin(Ihave 94 National pins with each dog's name engraved on each pin and the year it qualified) in a shadow box. The same group who tried to sell me tickets for their raffle and asked for donations to the RHOF. Don't kid yourself- look up who the SAME 5 people are that run the Labrador Club, the DoubleHeaders Club and the Retriever Hall of Fame admissions committee. What is is so shut up and be happy that you are asked to stay away from work and home and family inorder that those who have may sit in the gallery or at home while others work the trial and pros run their dogs. Just a larger edition of a weekend trial-100 dogs qualify for a National-25 could win it, 50 are good dogs and 25 got there because of luck,suck or/and politics. You will find that of the finalists 10 come from the top 25, and 2 or3 from the "good dogs" There's lots of luck and it usually costs me $4000 or more and 12 days of my life, so after qualifying for 53 Nationals and running 89 dogs and finishing 13 I now stay home. I don't have enough money to play in that prestigous league--and also I am an old fart who gets too tired,however I do work my dogs everyday and there is a love affair between myself and my dogs-that's all that matters to me or them.


I've been saving a $200 bottle of single malt the boys at work gave me when dad passed. I typically just drink my Jim Beam, its what I can afford or steal beer outa Bubba's cooler. But tonight, and every night till its gone I'm gonna crack that puppy open and I'm gonna drink 4 fingers while reading your post. Those fine people in charge may not appreciate your contribution, but the real people do....

/Paul


----------



## Vicky Trainor

YardleyLabs said:


> Pin????? I didn't even get my shirt -- the downside of being too fat.


 









This is the pin that I received. I have a special plan for it.


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

Vicky Trainor said:


> This is the pin that I received. I have a special plan for it.


Vicky was the posting of this picture showing your coat approved to be distributed or are you flaunting a lack of caring of being sued?

/Paul


----------



## YardleyLabs

Vicky Trainor said:


> This is the pin that I received. I have a special plan for it.


Good thing you mentioned that. I went back and checked my package and there it was. Nice.


----------



## Bait

Vicky Trainor said:


> Geez Bait....they fed us a chicken salad pita, chips and a cup of oyster stew on Wednesday.


Sorry, Vicky, but there is NO WAY a frickin' chicken salad pita even comes close to a *****'s crab cake and a Helen's breakfast sandwich! And you KNOW it!


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Vicky was the posting of this picture showing your coat approved to be distributed or are you flaunting a lack of caring of being sued?
> 
> /Paul


I've always been called a flirt....I mean a flaunt .....oh never mind!


----------



## cjaz

Anyone have directions to the 7th and 8th.? I am heading down this morning but not sure where to go. Looking for directions heading south from either rt.13 or rt. 9 

Thanks


chris


----------



## Joe Dutro

scott spalding said:


> All I have to say is what a good time. It was a real treat to be lucky enough to be there. Thanks to the judges land owners and workers all were top notch if you ask me. Drake had a big hunt on the middle bird in the fifth that was going to catch him sooner or later. All I can say is thanks to everyone that took part it was a real treat.


Scott, Thank you for the run and the detailed account of what took Drake out. This is the kind of information we want to here. The good and the bad about the Nationals.
Joe Dutro


----------



## Paul Rainbolt

lanse brown said:


> Money and Prestige? Why would you say that when one owner has 6 dogs entered and has never trained any of them, let alone loved any in their house. No this is not about the love of the dogs, it is not about the camadrie of training together it is about making money for the National Club to be able to give away donations, self support the egos that are involved and make sure the peasants who are told that to work is a honor and to shut up, pay for their own food and room. Having worked 16 different Nationals at my own expense I do not recall ever recieving a thank you by written letter.I was once told that that since my dog who had qualified and was deceased was not at the National I could not buy a National pin(Ihave 94 National pins with each dog's name engraved on each pin and the year it qualified) in a shadow box. The same group who tried to sell me tickets for their raffle and asked for donations to the RHOF. Don't kid yourself- look up who the SAME 5 people are that run the Labrador Club, the DoubleHeaders Club and the Retriever Hall of Fame admissions committee. What is is so shut up and be happy that you are asked to stay away from work and home and family inorder that those who have may sit in the gallery or at home while others work the trial and pros run their dogs. Just a larger edition of a weekend trial-100 dogs qualify for a National-25 could win it, 50 are good dogs and 25 got there because of luck,suck or/and politics. You will find that of the finalists 10 come from the top 25, and 2 or3 from the "good dogs" There's lots of luck and it usually costs me $4000 or more and 12 days of my life, so after qualifying for 53 Nationals and running 89 dogs and finishing 13 I now stay home. I don't have enough money to play in that prestigous league--and also I am an old fart who gets too tired,however I do work my dogs everyday and there is a love affair between myself and my dogs-that's all that matters to me or them.


Thanks Lance, you are an inspiration to many. This is the best post in the entire national thread.


----------



## DarrinGreene

Bait said:


> Actually, I was getting paid, my full rate. My vacation days come in handy.
> And, no they wouldn't let me plant any blinds, Vicky. Good call.




bad knee regards,


----------



## goldngirl

Go # 59 Flip and David Ward! 

Heard Flip is having an great week, and she is so talented I am pulling for her!


----------



## 2tall

Thank you Lanse. You expressed it so well, and you have the actual experience to back up your words. It helps us greenhorns when we learn that some of the practices we question are not totally our imagination. If I ever lose the pleasure of my relationship with the dog and my enjoyment of my training groups, I will just stay home. I have really enjoyed watching the Amateur stake when I go to a trial. Much more so than the open or quals. I guess it is that same relationship and camaraderie going on there. I do still love the National though, especially when one of the Am teams makes it to the finals!


----------



## FOM

So anyone have any updates on the crabcakes? Haven't seen any dinner menus posted lately?

FOM


----------



## msdaisey

Lanse - 

I am in love with you! I got burned out being the unappreciated worker bee and am now playing with horses again. It was waaaay too much to work full time and have to work at every FT/HT job there was with zero appreciation. We'll see what happens when I get to retire . . .


----------



## FOM

Dogs droped in the 7th/8th series at the NRC: 10, 13, 16, 17, 25, 30, 35, 43, 74, 78


----------



## ErinsEdge

Go Dave and Flip! Do it for Gordy.


----------



## mostlygold

I have never worked at National event, not enough time off from work and certainly not enough money. I have however worked at almost every HT/FT run by the 3 clubs I am a member of for the past 18 yrs, as well as for many clubs I am not a member of. This year at Shoreline's Derby Stake, I worked all day in the cold and rain throwing birds. At the end of the day, a woman approached me and thanked me for throwing birds for her dog all day. I remember this because for all the years I have worked at trials, she is the very first handler that has ever thanked me for working. Sad that it made such an impression for being so rare.

Regards
Dawn Terrill


----------



## K G

Wow....how long has it been since the only series run on Saturday was the 10th?

And GO-GO-GO Sinner and Chevy!

kg


----------



## birdthrower51

Yippee! Good luck to a couple of special dogs, that will be nameless, so as not to jinx!!


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Just a casual observation. Roerm & Sargentti each have 3 dogs and Dewey still has 2. I believe the rest are all down to their final bullets. A few untitled dogs and amatuers still in the hunt. Also noticed that two dogs with handles are still in. This next series is the one that will cause alot of spincter muscles to get exercised. Everything is on the line now!!

LT


----------



## BonMallari

lanse brown said:


> Money and Prestige? Why would you say that when one owner has 6 dogs entered and has never trained any of them, let alone loved any in their house. No this is not about the love of the dogs, it is not about the camadrie of training together it is about making money for the National Club to be able to give away donations, self support the egos that are involved and make sure the peasants who are told that to work is a honor and to shut up, pay for their own food and room. Having worked 16 different Nationals at my own expense I do not recall ever recieving a thank you by written letter.I was once told that that since my dog who had qualified and was deceased was not at the National I could not buy a National pin(Ihave 94 National pins with each dog's name engraved on each pin and the year it qualified) in a shadow box. The same group who tried to sell me tickets for their raffle and asked for donations to the RHOF. Don't kid yourself- look up who the SAME 5 people are that run the Labrador Club, the DoubleHeaders Club and the Retriever Hall of Fame admissions committee. What is is so shut up and be happy that you are asked to stay away from work and home and family in order that those who have may sit in the gallery or at home while others work the trial and pros run their dogs. Just a larger edition of a weekend trial-100 dogs qualify for a National-25 could win it, 50 are good dogs and 25 got there because of luck,suck or/and politics. You will find that of the finalists 10 come from the top 25, and 2 or3 from the "good dogs" There's lots of luck and it usually costs me $4000 or more and 12 days of my life, so after qualifying for 53 Nationals and running 89 dogs and finishing 13 I now stay home. I don't have enough money to play in that prestigious league--and also I am an old fart who gets too tired,however I do work my dogs everyday and there is a love affair between myself and my dogs-that's all that matters to me or them.


Its times like this that make me very proud to call you my friend, you are still the straightest shooter of them all, in this politically correct world of ours..


----------



## JS

birdthrower51 said:


> Yippee! Good luck to a couple of special dogs, that will be nameless, so as not to jinx!!


YUP!! I _think_ I know to whom you refer!! 

Ain't it awesome!!

JS


----------



## Ted Shih

I disagree with the broad generalizations made by Lanse.

I don't think it is true that all people who train their own dogs love those dogs.
I don't think that all people who have pros train their dogs do not love those dogs.
I think Lanse's suggestion to the contrary is untrue.

I don't know Kippy Stroud, I have never met her nor have I ever spoken to her. Consequently, I am not in a position to make comments on a public forum about her. However, whether Lanse's comments are true or not, I don't think that they are appropriate here.

Anyone who has followed the proposal that Ed Aycock and I have submitted to the RAC knows that I feel that in many respects that large dog pro truck has had negative impact on the sport. However, I think that many pros do have a great love and respect for the sport. I have found almost all pros with whom I have spoken to be very forthcoming with help or advice when asked. And many pros have responded to criticisms about their work in putting on trials put on trials this year. So, again, I think it is unfair to paint the pros with such a broad and unflattering brush.

As for the Nationals themselves. I worked as a marshall at the 2008 National Am at Stowe. Vermont. And I received a handwritten thank you note from Phyllis McGinn. I also know of many people who work at the Nationals year after year - because of their love for the sport.

Is there a "secret handshake" element to the Sport that I dislike? You bet. Could the sport be more open to newcomers and less elitist? You bet.

Is the sport as callous as Lanse portrays? I don't think so.


----------



## Ken Guthrie

Ted Shih said:


> I disagree with the broad generalizations made by Lanse.
> 
> I don't think it is true that all people who train their own dogs love those dogs.
> I don't think that all people who have pros train their dogs do not love those dogs.
> I think Lanse's suggestion to the contrary is untrue.
> 
> I don't know Kippy Stroud, I have never met her nor have I ever spoken to her. Consequently, I am not in a position to make comments on a public forum about her. However, whether Lanse's comments are true or not, I don't think that they are appropriate here.
> 
> Anyone who has followed the proposal that Ed Aycock and I have submitted to the RAC knows that I feel that in many respects that large dog pro truck has had negative impact on the sport. However, I think that many pros do have a great love and respect for the sport. I have found almost all pros with whom I have spoken to be very forthcoming with help or advice when asked. And many pros have responded to criticisms about their work in putting on trials put on trials this year. So, again, I think it is unfair to paint the pros with such a broad and unflattering brush.
> 
> As for the Nationals themselves. I worked as a marshall at the 2008 National Am at Stowe. Vermont. And I received a handwritten thank you note from Phyllis McGinn. I also know of many people who work at the Nationals year after year - because of their love for the sport.
> 
> Is there a "secret handshake" element to the Sport that I dislike? You bet. Could the sport be more open to newcomers and less elitist? You bet.
> 
> Is the sport as callous as Lanse portrays? I don't think so.


99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer...

Next topic...


----------



## FOM

First test dog is running the 9th!


----------



## JeffLusk

FOM said:


> First test dog is running the 9th!


Thats what I like to hear!!!!


----------



## FOM

And I quote from a source at the NRC:

"Muderous marks, can't see dog pick up birds....test dog has been out of sight for long time....gunners helping dog now." :shock:

FOM


----------



## K G

Didn't someone post much earlier that the goal was to get down to 10 dogs, +/-, as finalists?

Reality regards,

kg


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

FOM said:


> And I quote from a source at the NRC:
> 
> "Muderous marks, can't see dog pick up birds....test dog has been out of sight for long time....gunners helping dog now." :shock:
> 
> FOM


"If" this is true ( no offense Laniee), these are the marking test I fail to understand, handlers can't see the dog, judges cant see the dog, how do you judge the work.

start the clock regards
Brad


----------



## FOM

They had to adjust the test, next test dog is running...


----------



## rolando_cornelio

Show'em how it's done chipper (#3)!!!


----------



## FOM

Dukdawg said:


> "If" this is true ( no offense Laniee), these are the marking test I fail to understand, handlers can't see the dog, judges cant see the dog, how do you judge the work.
> 
> start the clock regards
> Brad


Brad,

I am not there so can't really comment....dog could of gotten "lost" due to a bad hunt....sometimes there are areas a dog can go out of sight for a few seconds and the judges at the time find it acceptable and then a dog runs and it turns into a out of sight for way too long....just too many things to guess....I would go out on a limb and say that the dog out of sight was not expected.....and it seems so since they have readjusted the mark....

FOM


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Three retired guns.....wow!. I love it.....no gimmee showcase tests. Time for the winner to put the pedal to the metal and stand out. 

LT


----------



## K G

Wonder why the WRC info is slower to update what is going on?

Wonder if they (the WRC sponsors) are happy with what they're getting for the dollar spent? Wonder what kind of click-through rate they (the WRC sponsors) are getting to their websites from WRC?

Just-a-_wonderin'_ regards,

kg


----------



## FOM

Also keep in mind my source may not be able to see the dog from where they are - the judges might? Just saying - don't throw the judges under the bus 

Sounds like the 2nd test dog did the test and the adjustment helped!


----------



## EdA

K G said:


> Didn't someone post much earlier that the goal was to get down to 10 dogs, +/-, as finalists?


I think the only national experience that poster has is what is read on the internet......


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Lainee,

Did they say what adjustment they made?

LT


----------



## FOM

Lonny,

Just that the left hand marks were adjusted....

Lainee


----------



## FOM

K G said:


> Wonder why the WRC info is slower to update what is going on?
> 
> Wonder if they (the WRC sponsors) are happy with what they're getting for the dollar spent? Wonder what kind of click-through rate they (the WRC sponsors) are getting to their websites from WRC?
> 
> Just-a-_wonderin'_ regards,
> 
> kg


In all fairness to Vicki, she is taking pictures, trying to upload them and add comments....takes a little time....so far I think her blog is top notch....I get txt msgs and can post on RTF faster...and i'm also guessing she has other distractions going on too....

Her blog provides an aspect that the reporting on RTF can't.....but the RTF reporting provides an aspect that her blog can't - put both together and you have a pretty good system going on.....I just hope the NRC powers that be can realize that.....together we provide a better experience, divided we do not....


----------



## BonMallari

K G said:


> Didn't someone post much earlier that the goal was to get down to 10 dogs, +/-, as finalists?
> 
> Reality regards,
> 
> kg





K G said:


> Wonder why the WRC info is slower to update what is going on?
> 
> Wonder if they (the WRC sponsors) are happy with what they're getting for the dollar spent? Wonder what kind of click-through rate they (the WRC sponsors) are getting to their websites from WRC?
> 
> Just-a-_wonderin'_ regards,
> 
> kg



You're starting to grow on me ..not quite sure why


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Thanks Lainee, love ur unsponsored non profit inside info.....lol. As every year U the bomb!!

LT


----------



## Ted Shih

K G said:


> Wonder why the WRC info is slower to update what is going on?


I don't think that WRC is always slower

They are slower on occasion - typically when the trial moves. This is because they need to pick up stakes, move, and then settle in before they are up and broadcasting


----------



## Steve Amrein

Tulsa Slim said:


> Thanks Lance, you are an inspiration to many. This is the best post in the entire national thread.


I read all the way to the bottom inclding Teds post before I added anything. I have to agree with the general taste and feel with what is going on. Thank you Lanse for saying what most folks dont have the stones to say or post in a public forum. I will send whoever 50 bucks to add to a fund to get that printed in the FT news.


----------



## BonMallari

Steve Amrein said:


> I read all the way to the bottom inclding Teds post before I added anything. I have to agree with the general taste and feel with what is going on. Thank you Lanse for saying what most folks dont have the stones to say or post in a public forum. I will send whoever 50 bucks to add to a fund to get that printed in the FT news.


even with the necessary funds amassed it would never make it past the editors desk....


----------



## 7blackdogs

For all those who feel the NRC "feed" of information is not quite fast enough needs to watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk


----------



## FOM

Dog 3 pop/handle


----------



## Warren Flynt

7blackdogs said:


> For all those who feel the NRC "feed" of information is not quite fast enough needs to watch this video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk


thats a great clip.


----------



## JS

FOM said:


> Dog 3 pop/handle


What about the first 2 to run? Anyone??

JS


----------



## JeffLusk

FOM said:


> Dog 3 pop/handle


   there goes my fav pick!


----------



## FOM

JS said:


> What about the first 2 to run? Anyone??
> 
> JS


I am getting tidbits on the dogs and how they are doing, but sorry I will not post that here and it can be subjective....facts like handling, poping, breaking, pick ups are different....sorry guys...lesson learned from previous years 

If the dog you are interested in does not get mentioned as a "fact" then assume they did the series in some form or fashion....

Lainee


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

FOM said:


> They had to adjust the test, next test dog is running...


Thanks for the info, glad to hear they made adjustments. I agree with all you said about not being there, and different perspectives. But thanks for the info, your coverage as usuall is awesome.

Brad


----------



## birdthrower51

JS-my report was he did good.


----------



## FOM

Dog 22 just finished running...


----------



## FOM

A cute tidbit:

While on the honor mat Mark Smith had to ask the judges if he could remove a catipiller (sp?) that was about to climb on to Tex....


----------



## JS

FOM said:


> I am getting tidbits on the dogs and how they are doing, but sorry I will not post that here and it can be subjective....facts like handling, poping, breaking, pick ups are different....sorry guys...lesson learned from previous years
> 
> If the dog you are interested in does not get mentioned as a "fact" then assume they did the series in some form or fashion....
> 
> Lainee


Fair enuf.  Thanks.

JS


----------



## FOM

39 just finished, 26 re-run on the line


----------



## Franco

David M, if you are sitting in a classroom over in Houston trying to keep up with Tex, know that he just did a very good job in the 9th! One short, quick hunt on the quad.


----------



## TroyFeeken

Thank you to all involved with covering this years National! Pat on the back to you all! Especially the workers!

I'd like to give a special thank you to the individual drawing the set ups and posting on the blog. They are exceptional and very well done! May I ask how they're being created? Tablet PC of sorts I'm assuming?


----------



## FOM

26 Handled / 45 on the line


----------



## FOM

TroyFeeken said:


> Thank you to all involved with covering this years National! Pat on the back to you all! Especially the workers!
> 
> I'd like to give a special thank you to the individual drawing the set ups and posting on the blog. They are exceptional and very well done! May I ask how they're being created? Tablet PC of sorts I'm assuming?


Pam hand draws the pictures and it looks like they are being scanned in or a picture is being taken of them with a camera and uploaded in that manner.....that's just a guess mind you.


----------



## Aaron Homburg

*Just saw the pictures of the test! I am a relative rookie at this game but I have got to give KUDOS to the judges for the tests! 9th series with a 254 yard flyer....very good and great bird placement!

Good Luck to All Regards,

Aaron*


----------



## 2tall

Go Jeff and Sinner!!!!!!


----------



## lennie

Not a field trialer, never stayed in a holiday in express....just like the excitment of the posts.

Just wanted to say I sure was pulling for that chocolate dog...Drake #50. Broke my heart when I saw he was out.

Glad you got the chance to run, hope to see you again at the BIG SHOW!

Chocolate Dogs Rule!

Earlene


----------



## mcnaugt

JS said:


> What about the first 2 to run? Anyone??
> 
> JS


I think dog #1 had a no bird... Imagine that!!!


----------



## Howard N

mcnaugt said:


> I think dog #1 had a no bird... Imagine that!!!


I don't see how she could have as she was out in the 4th series.


----------



## goldngirl

Go Flip #59 and David......go all the way....I have my fingers, eyes, legs crossed for good luck for you both!


----------



## goldngirl

Anybody see David Ward and #59 Flip run? Lets us know if you have seen or heard anything about Flip's run in the 9th! Thanks so much!


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Go Bobby!!!!


----------



## DenverB2B

What happened to #51 Pirate? Nothing reported on that other site.


----------



## ErinsEdge

I don't think they are that far yet.


----------



## 2tall

Nor about Sailor, #53? Maybe they don't like nautical dogs?


----------



## mcnaugt

Howard N said:


> I don't see how she could have as she was out in the 4th series.


I thought they were asking about the first dog running today...


----------



## DenverB2B

I read somthing about them running out of order in the 7th and 8th but nothing about the ninth and dog 58 has already run. Just wondering.


----------



## birdthrower51

JS-the dog picked up birds nicely, as reported to me.


----------



## FOM

They have 2 dogs left to run in the 9th...


----------



## greg magee

K G said:


> As I told a high ranking official of RN, WRC's traffic would be a FRACTION of what it is this week were it not for RTF.
> 
> 
> Where has this discontent in the past? Haven't the blog reports been sponsored before? If so, why didn't those sponsors raise cain? Or could there be an underlying reason WHY officials with the National Retriever Club don't want RTF associated with this event?
> 
> 
> kg


I would think that all the people on here that drag the leadership of the before mentioned things through the mud on a continual basis generates a lot of bad feelings. Deservedly so I might add. As long as that is continued and tolerated I don't think you'll ever see a good working relationship. I think sponsorship statement was just an excuse to excersize control. 
As much as I admire and respect Lanse and with all due respect, I feel his comments we're out of line. And these are exactly the kind of statements that drive the wedge even deeper. I personally feel they have done a commendable job with the coverage and look forward to reading the days events when I get home in the evening.


----------



## AmiableLabs

scott spalding said:


> Ken Veach sent me a good luck charm. I am quite sure Terri was right there with us as promised.


Joe Pilar told me, very cool.

Joe also held you up as an example of someone who listened to Terri's advice and what I could have accomplished if I could have kept my mouth shut long enough and just listened. :lol:


----------



## AmiableLabs

Vicky Trainor said:


> This is the pin that I received. I have a special plan for it.


Vicky, I have a few of those pins that I have bought or were gifted to me.

I have never earned one. Congrats, and treasure it.


----------



## FOM

They are done...now we wait for callbacks....


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

greg magee said:


> I would think that all the people on here that drag the leadership of the before mentioned things through the mud on a continual basis generates a lot of bad feelings. Deservedly so I might add. As long as that is continued and tolerated I don't think you'll ever see a good working relationship. I think sponsorship statement was just an excuse to exercise control.
> As much as I admire and respect Lanse and with all due respect, I feel his comments we're out of line. And these are exactly the kind of statements that drive the wedge even deeper. I personally feel they have done a commendable job with the coverage and look forward to reading the days events when I get home in the evening.


Nobody has said a word about the coverage. Fact is it is very good, and much improved over the past 5 years. Its the "other" behavior and business tactics that tend to cause discontent. I personally think its ridiculous to tell me I can't watch a sporting event and then not share what I saw or what my opinion is with those who also watched. Got any idea how many newstations, sports bars, sports web sites all cover the same NFL game? 

/Paul


----------



## weebegoldens

I just saw.. Stonesifers property for tomorrow... Can anyone provide directions as I have not been there in QUITE A while.

thanks - Megan


----------



## K G

greg magee said:


> I would think that all the people on here that drag the leadership of the before mentioned things through the mud on a continual basis generates a lot of bad feelings. Deservedly so I might add. As long as that is continued and tolerated I don't think you'll ever see a good working relationship. I think sponsorship statement was just an excuse to excersize control.


I think you are correct about the sponsorship statement...and that sort of thing drives wedges as well. Paul covered the rest of it pretty well.

I had a long reply written but decided not to post it because it dealt with some things that, while they need to come out, don't need to come out on this thread. As I was told by my RN contact, the National Open Championship is the Super Bowl of the retriever field trial sport, and we need to focus on those dogs that are finalists. This is THEIR TIME.

kg


----------



## Jay Dufour

Thank you Keith ! Us in the peanut gallery are following this exciting trial with as much enjoyment as possible from afar.The coverage is great and timely,and I don't care where I must go to get it.Lets do all the ugly stuff after the dust settles.
Goooooo #24 Mark and Tex !!!!


----------



## FOM

Is the wait "killing" anyone else?


----------



## birdthrower51

YES! Tomorrow will be worse! I really have work to do.


----------



## huntinman

FOM said:


> Is the wait "killing" anyone else?


Could be waiting a while. I doubt if they want 20 finalists. Some with handles earlier did good in the 9th. Gonna be some judgin' going on.


----------



## BonMallari

FOM said:


> Is the wait "killing" anyone else?


Nope because its only Friday and it will give me something to read when i come home from work tonight...


Now tomorrow wil be exciting and i dont have a dog in the mix, but its still a heck of a lot of fun...especially since their wont be a repeat National winner


----------



## Grant Wilson

Anybody care to guess how many go to the tenth? I say 16.


----------



## huntinman

Water Rock said:


> Anybody care to guess how many go to the tenth? I say 16.


I was guessing 14, now I don't know what to think. I thought the 9th might have more PU's or handles... More power to all the handlers and their dogs. To be a finalist is a great big feather in your cap!


----------



## Franco

I'm guessing 15 back for the 10th.

There were some pops, handles and switches that weren't covered on the blog.

The marks were tight and some dogs didn't do so well running in corn rows.


----------



## Grant Wilson

Now you've got me nervous.


----------



## john fallon

Lanse



lanse brown said:


> ......................................................., so after qualifying for 53 Nationals and running 89 dogs and finishing 13 I now stay home. ..................................


From a been there done that perspective this more than qualifies you to have made *most* of your comment. I say "most" because I know for a fact that, with or without love, there have been dogs in that house.

_They_ win if _You_ pack it in regards,

john


----------



## huntinman

Franco said:


> I'm guessing 15 back for the 10th.
> 
> There were some pops, handles and switches that weren't covered on the blog.
> 
> The marks were tight and some dogs didn't do so well running in corn rows.


Sounds like Rice Krispies...snap, crackle & pop! I sure thought the 9th would be a doozy... sounds like it was.


----------



## FOM

There are 12 dogs back: 22, 24, 27, 29, 39, 59, 63, 65, 69, 70, 86, 92


----------



## Greg Seddon

My guess is 12 to 14 dogs


----------



## huntinman

FOM said:


> There are 12 dogs back: 22, 24, 27, 29, 39, 59, 63, 65, 69, 70, 86, 92


Whoaaaaaa!


----------



## Juli H

well two of my picks are left..... 24 and 65.....

Juli


----------



## Juli H

trivia question....
has dog number 1 ever won?

Juli


----------



## copterdoc

Juli H said:


> well two of my picks are left..... 24 and 65.....
> 
> Juli


24 looked very good today.


----------



## Pupknuckle

weebegoldens said:


> I just saw.. Stonesifers property for tomorrow... Can anyone provide directions as I have not been there in QUITE A while.
> 
> thanks - Megan


If you are in Dover on RT 13 turn east next to Home Depot just south of Dover Downs. Go to end of Rd and turn left. Stonesifer's will be on your right hand side before you reach Rt 9.


----------



## FOM

*The last 12 remaining - good luck to them all:*

*22 FC-AFC Ebonstar Gotta Zoom - H6*
*24 FC Bayou Teche Tex*
*27 FC Premier's RSK Powerstroke*
*29 FC Hawkeye's Red, White And Blue*
*39 FC Trumarc's Brother Bob*
*59 FC Mioaks Fabulous Flipper - Starts the 10th series*
*63 Kiss Of The Devil*
*65 FC World Famous Magical Mischief*
*69 Robb's Mia Hambone*
*70 Ride Sally Ride III*
*86 FC-AFC Gimme Five More *
*92 FC Candlewood Goldendaze Louie*


----------



## john fallon

FOM said:


> There are 12 dogs back: 22, 24, 27, 29, 39, 59, 63, 65, 69, 70, 86, 92




22. FC-AFC Ebonstar Gotta Zoom, LM
24. FC Bayou Teche Tex, LM
27. FC Premier’s RSK Powerstroke, LM
29. FC-AFC Hawkeye’s Red White and Blue, LM
39. FC Trumarc’s Brother Bob, LM
59. FC Mioak’s Fabulous Flipper, LF
63. Kiss of The Devil, LF
65. FC World Famous Magical Mischief, LM
69. FC-AFC Robb’s Mia Hambone, LF
70. Ride Sally Ride III, LF
86. FC-AFC Gimme Five More, LF
92. FC Candlewood Goldendaze Louie, LM


Is that them ?;-)

john


----------



## Jay Hinton

86 or 89???


----------



## Bait

DarrinGreene said:


> bad knee regards,


Ain't got nothin' to do with the bad knee. It ain't bad no more. It's bionic. It has to do with a blind I forgot to plant once, and guess who was the judge?..................................You got it! Miss Vicky!! And, she ain't never gonna let me live it down. But, she still loves me! I ain't too sure about the guy who was running the dog though. Right, Larry? 
But, back to this thread. Gotta love the suspense, right? 
Meantime, I gotta say, it's been a priveledged experience for me to be a part of this. Just in case there's any question. I have enjoyed working and seeing my first national. I can't get over the amount of people and work involved. It's overwhelming. I got a kick out of watching Pam make her sketches. You know this thing stops for nothing. It doesn't even slow down for nothing. Other than equipment failure, no-birds, stuff like that. This girl has to run around, stand tippy-toed, step up if there's a re-bird, etc. to get her look at it. All the time hoping that she's doing an adequate job. I think it's a gift for someone to be able to take something that's seen from a straight line of site and put it in a slightly elevated view. Amidst restrictions, distractions, limited time to get a look at it. Really cool stuff! 
Crab cakes all-around regards, BAIT


----------



## FOM

Jay Hinton said:


> 86 or 89???


Sorry - multi-tasking!

List is fixed!


----------



## Lynn Moore

Congratulations to the Augustyn's and Magic! He has so many points and such a great dog, he deserves to be there this year! Go get em Billy!!!!


----------



## Josh Conrad

Come on #65 Magic!!!!

Dixie and Hailey and the rest of Team Sargenti are Pullin for ya big guy!!


----------



## Duckbane

So does Zoom have a shot even though he handled in the 6th? If he runs the 10th well and so do the others will the handle come back to haunt him?


----------



## Shayne Mehringer

Since they are starting early in the morning again... anyone want to take odds on whether the last series will be water marks?

If so... way to finish strong judges!

SM


----------



## cakaiser

Duckbane said:


> So does Zoom have a shot even though he handled in the 6th? If he runs the 10th well and so do the others will the handle come back to haunt him?


Yes...

Big hurrah for Jay and Miss Sally!! (you too, Paulie )
For both, their first national, doing it in style, GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## JS

Good luck to all those still standing but a little extra to #92!

GO LOUIE & DEWEY!! 

JS


----------



## moonstonelabs

Best wishes to # 69 Mia....great amateur team and well deserved. Richard Underwood gave Mia a new life and Mia gave Rich her heart. Its a great story.

Bill


----------



## Guest

Good luck to all the finalists!!!


----------



## labraiser

I 'll bet the final series is a water quad, but the real question is 10 or 11 series?


----------



## Franco

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Since they are starting early in the morning again... anyone want to take odds on whether the last series will be water marks?
> 
> If so... way to finish strong judges!
> 
> SM


 
Interrupted tight Quintuplet with 4 retired on the water, all shot fliers. The blind will serve as the 11 th series.


----------



## Doug Moore

ErinsEdge said:


> Go Dave and Flip! Do it for Gordy.


I have a puppy out of Flipper/Weezer and called Mr. Alfter tonight to wish him luck as I have not talked to him in several months . Go get em Flipper for Mr. Gordy.


----------



## Annette

Good luck to all tomorrow. Particularly Richard and Mia, Billy and Magic and my only pick left on EE Banner


----------



## EdA

Good luck Trumarc's Brother Bob from your dad Trumarc's Reverend Reggie (living vicariously on his kid's field trial accomplishments)


----------



## Boomer

Go Banner !


----------



## southwings

Go get 'em, Zoom!! Your little Pearl says good luck!


----------



## Ricky Elston

Good luck tomorrow Mark and Tex!


----------



## Aussie

Lynn Moore said:


> Congratulations to the Augustyn's and Magic! He has so many points and such a great dog, he deserves to be there this year! Go get em Billy!!!!


Lynn, Josh, anyone - any photos of Magic? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri73-OyEpu0


----------



## birdthrower51

Silly question--Why pencil the 9th? With a whole day to run the 10th, why not those without handles or monster hunts be finalists. If you weren't cut in the early series, and continued to do well, it just seems tough to get cut. I know it is the National and it is for the best of the best, but I would think there are 8-10 handlers/owners scratching their heads.
Just my thoughts
GS


----------



## Franco

birdthrower51 said:


> Silly question--Why pencil the 9th? With a whole day to run the 10th, why not those without handles or monster hunts be finalists. If you weren't cut in the early series, and continued to do well, it just seems tough to get cut. I know it is the National and it is for the best of the best, but I would think there are 8-10 handlers/owners scratching their heads.
> Just my thoughts
> GS


I don't think there was any "pencil whipping".

Dogs where dropped for big hunts out of the area of the fall, switches and handles. Some didn't handle the short stubble corn rows very well and it got them.


----------



## Franco

EdA said:


> Good luck Trumarc's Brother Bob from your dad Trumarc's Reverend Reggie (living vicariously on his kid's field trial accomplishments)


 
I would think there are a lot of wonderful sires that get over-looked for the bigger named, more profitable studs.


----------



## goldngirl

COME ON # 59.......GO FLIPPER.....GO FLIP GO....GO DAVID.....DO IT FOR GORDY!
GO FLIP........you're the best frog hunter girl there is!!! All your friends in Wisconsin are rooting for you both! Best of Luck!!


----------



## Lance-CO

Juli H said:


> trivia question....
> has dog number 1 ever won?
> 
> Juli


I guess Lottie is one of them


----------



## Franco

Three untilted dogs going into the 10th.

Winning this baby would be one heck of a way to get that title!

If a dog needed a win for thier FC, would winning an NFC also give them thier FC?;-)

NFC Rouxfus or NFC FC Rouxfus?


----------



## huntinman

Franco said:


> Three untilted dogs going into the 10th.
> 
> Winning this baby would be one heck of a way to get that title!
> 
> If a dog needed a win for thier FC, would winning an NFC also give them thier FC?;-)
> 
> NFC Rouxfus or NFC FC Rouxfus?


Also 2 am handlers, although one of them is a many time finalist and Nat' Champ in his own right.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Richard's dog Mia has both her titles, he just forgets to put them in there when he signs her up for the field trial, very happy for him and John Henninger who raised Mia and did some great things with/for her!


----------



## Juli H

if they finish, do they get their FC title? if an untitled dog wins, does he/she get their title? or is the NFC title the only title given (to the winner)...

curious....


----------



## Franco

Juli H said:


> if they finish, do they get their FC title? if an untitled dog wins, does he/she get their title? or is the NFC title the only title given (to the winner)...
> 
> curious....


I would think that technically, the dog would be NFC FC but that common usage only shows NFC. That the FC is a given via the NFC. The dog gets 5 points for winning the National, along with the win.


----------



## EdA

Franco said:


> I would think that technically, the dog would be NFC FC but that common usage only shows NFC. That the FC is a given via the NFC. The dog gets 5 points for winning the National, along with the win.


Think about it, 7 points including a win to qualify and 5 points for winning the National, can't be an NFC without being an FC so to use both designations would be redundant


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

moonstonelabs said:


> Best wishes to # 69 Mia....great amateur team and well deserved. Richard Underwood gave Mia a new life and Mia gave Rich her heart. Its a great story.
> 
> Bill


I agree. I trained her littermate IV and own a full brother to repeat breading Pete. Go Mia go.......

I hope someone lets Perry Gust know Mia's doing so well...

/Paul


----------



## jeff t.

Juli H said:


> if they finish, do they get their FC title? if an untitled dog wins, does he/she get their title? or is the NFC title the only title given (to the winner)...
> 
> curious....


From page 23 of the rules


> SECTION 12. A National Championship Stake for
> qualified Retrievers shall be run not more than once in
> any calendar year by the National Retriever Club under
> the Rules and Procedures for Retriever trials subject to
> such modifications of these Rules and Procedures as
> may be considered necessary by the National Retriever
> Club. The club may also make special Rules and
> Procedures as are deemed necessary for the conduct of
> the stake. Modifications of the Rules and Procedures, as
> well as such special Rules and Procedures as may be
> made by the National Retriever Club, are subject to the
> approval of the Board of Directors of The American
> Kennel Club. *The winner of such stake shall become a
> Field Champion of Record if registered in The American
> Kennel Club Stud Book and shall be entitled to be designated
> “National Retriever Field Champion of 20—.*’’


----------



## Franco

jeff t. said:


> From page 23 of the rules


Well, that answers it, they're NRFC!;-)

Jeff, how are you feeling? That was a great showing at the big dance! You must be spent.


----------



## john fallon

What happens if it is handled by an Amateur. Do the 5 points and the win count toward its AFC ?

john


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> What happens if it is handled by an Amateur. Do the 5 points and the win count toward its AFC ?
> 
> john


yep, just another Open win with an Amateur handler which would also complete it's AFC assuming the dog was qualified by it's Amateur handler


----------



## jeff t.

john fallon said:


> What happens if it is handled by an Amateur. Do the 5 points and the win count toward its AFC ?
> 
> john


From Section 17 (page 25)



> At present, to acquire an Amateur Field Championship,
> a Retriever must win:
> (1) a National Championship Stake, handled by an
> Amateur, or a National Amateur Championship Stake or
> (2) a total of 10 points in Open All-Age, Limited All-Age,
> Special All-Age or, Restricted All-Age stakes, or a total of 15
> points in Open All-Age, Limited All-Age, Special All-Age,
> Amateur All-Age, Owner-Handler All-Age, or Restricted
> All-Age Stakes


----------



## john fallon

EdA said:


> yep, *just another Open *win with an Amateur handler which would also complete it's AFC assuming the dog was qualified by it's Amateur handler


So this 50 pages of fuss is about just another Open ?;-)

john


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> So this 50 pages of fuss is about just another Open ?;-)
> 
> john


a bit more than "just another Open" as anyone who has managed to hold themselves and a dog together for 7 Days and 10 series can attest


----------



## jeff t.

Franco said:


> Jeff, how are you feeling? That was a great showing at the big dance! You must be spent.


Thanks,

I had a wonderful time. 

We had a great pre-national training group that was very helpful and also lots of fun. Sinner missed the Fall trial season due to an iliopsoas injury. Less than a month ago, I didn't know if she would be physically
healthy enough to compete at all, let alone make it to the 9th series. So I am grateful to have had this opportunity and have thoroughly enjoyed myself. 
It was also gratifying to be able to compete as an amateur in a field of contestants that was in large part comprised of professional trainers.

I wish the best of luck to the dogs and handlers in the 10th series.


----------



## Jim Pickering

Juli H said:


> if they finish, do they get their FC title? if an untitled dog wins, does he/she get their title? or is the NFC title the only title given (to the winner)...
> 
> curious....


If they finish all they get is there picture in the RNews, and maybe a couple additional fees for the boys.

The following quoted from the FT Rules:


> _At present, to acquire an Amateur Field Championship,
> a Retriever must win:
> (1) a National Championship Stake, handled by an
> Amateur, or a National Amateur Championship Stake
> 
> At present, to acquire a Field Championship, a
> Retriever must win:
> a National Championship Stake_


If an untitled amateur handled dog should win the dog would have eared two titles, NFC AFC. Any other dog that wins whether or not it already had the FC title would earn the NFC title.


----------



## john fallon

Jim Pickering said:


> The following quoted from the FT Rules:
> 
> 
> If an untitled amateur handled dog should win the dog would have eared two titles, NFC AFC. Any other dog that wins whether or not it already had the FC title would earn the NFC title.



That's what I was getting at.
NFC AFC , Now that ain't redundant !!!!

john


----------



## Franco

jeff t. said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I had a wonderful time.
> 
> We had a great pre-national training group that was very helpful and also lots of fun. Sinner missed the Fall trial season due to an iliopsoas injury. Less than a month ago, I didn't know if she would be physically
> healthy enough to compete at all, let alone make it to the 9th series. So I am grateful to have had this opportunity and have thoroughly enjoyed myself.
> It was also gratifying to be able to compete as an amateur in a field of contestants that was in large part comprised of professional trainers.
> 
> I wish the best of luck to the dogs and handlers in the 10th series.


That's a thrill 99.999% of us Lab owners have never experienced. Way to go!


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Lynn Dubose and Nelson Sills. Nelson ran the 2nd test dog in the 9th Series.









Lyn Yelton and her chocolate, AFC Rebel Ridge's Devils Luck MH, running as 1st test dog in Series #9









Handlers watching the first test dog









Billy Sargenti, Dave Rorem, Jeff Telander and Mac Dubose


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Nelson Sills running his dog as the 2nd test dog on Series #9









#45 FC-AFC Broad Reach Devil Made Me Doit (Sinner) waiting her turn in the holding blind for Series #9









Jeff Telander and #45 FC-AFC Broad Reach Devil Made Me Doit (Sinner) on Honor in Series #9


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Mark Mosher and #29 FC Hawkeye's Red, White And Blue (Banner)









Mark Smith and #24 FC Bayou Teche Tex (Tex). Tex wanted some loving!


----------



## Vicky Trainor

Some of these dogs were just soooo excited to be there, they just couldn't contain themselves as exhibited by #60 FC-AFC Jazztimes Hanging Chad (Chad) in these next 3 photos!! 

It started with a yawn....









Then came the stretch....









And then the full back scratch!!!....Ahhh, such enjoyment!


----------



## labraiser

Lynn's chocolate dog is Jinx, offically AFC Rebel Ridge's Devils Luck MH


----------



## Vicky Trainor

labraiser said:


> Lynn's chocolate dog is Jinx, offically AFC Rebel Ridge's Devils Luck MH


Thanks! I didn't know his name.  He came back from running as test dog with blood all over his face. After Lyn got him back to the trucks and cleaned up, the injuries amounted to lots of scratches on his face she thought from the cut corn stalks and a gash on his nose that bled quite a bit. We were all glad to hear that he was OK.


----------



## KEITH L

Jim Pickering said:


> If they finish all they get is there picture in the RNews, and maybe a couple additional fees for the boys.
> 
> The following quoted from the FT Rules:
> 
> 
> If an untitled amateur handled dog should win the dog would have eared two titles, NFC AFC. Any other dog that wins whether or not it already had the FC title would earn the NFC title.


if you really think about it a dog could win the trifecta by being a canadian dog 
national winner by invite run by an amt. and start with no akc points at all... just thinking


keith l.
________
Vapir One


----------



## YardleyLabs

jeff t. said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I had a wonderful time.
> 
> We had a great pre-national training group that was very helpful and also lots of fun. Sinner missed the Fall trial season due to an iliopsoas injury. Less than a month ago, I didn't know if she would be physically
> healthy enough to compete at all, let alone make it to the 9th series. So I am grateful to have had this opportunity and have thoroughly enjoyed myself.
> It was also gratifying to be able to compete as an amateur in a field of contestants that was in large part comprised of professional trainers.
> 
> I wish the best of luck to the dogs and handlers in the 10th series.


Jeff,

These are for you. Right click to download them to save on your computer. It should be possible to email them to the slowest connection.;-)


----------



## Jay Dufour

Really nice pictures....got the blood pumpin after a long day !!!!Thanks.


----------



## K G

EXCELLENT picture of you and Sinner, Jeff! That is wall portrait in the making!

kg


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## Sue Kiefer

again awesome photos from Jeff.
Go Dave and "Flipper", Paul & "Sally", Mac & "Roz".
Sue


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## john fallon

> We'll be getting an early start so the news won't be long in coming. It's sure to be a rapid-fire morning...more soon!
> 
> posted by Vickie Lamb @ 4:35 AM


7:44 and Nothing as yet on the Blog or the Report..........

Well what's happening

john


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## ErinsEdge

Dog 59 online at 809am. Go Flip and Dave!


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## goldngirl

Go Flip...GO GO GO .......GO Dave


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## ErinsEdge

According to the blog she did it with one small loop on the last bird.


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## goldngirl

yes I heard from the galley, they said "wow" 
great job Flip and Dave


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## Gun_Dog2002

Mia handled. Does anyone know if she was clean coming in?

/Paul


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## Vicky Trainor

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Mia handled. Does anyone know if she was clean coming in?
> 
> /Paul


According to the update announcement here on RTF, the only dog still playing that has handled prior to Series #10 is FC-AFC Ebonstar Gotta Zoom.


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## FOM

another handle Roz and Mac


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## goldngirl

Think that dog number is #22 not 10 that had a handle earlier???


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## D. Province

Is there any video coverage?


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## FOM

D. Province said:


> Is there any video coverage?


Now that's funny right there!


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## birdthrower51

According to the blog, Dewey & Louie had a nice job. (Hey, that really sounds like a team!) Congratulations to them & to Chuck & Mary Jane on being a finalist! Now they can breath, and pick MJ off the ground.


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## Shayne Mehringer

Sally is a littermate to my dog Boogie and Jay is a first class guy. I'm very excited they've made it to the end.

Shayne


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## JusticeDog

ErinsEdge said:


> According to the blog she did it with one small loop on the last bird.


speculation and gossip indicate that this team is hard to beat...  It's nice to have postive gossip once in awhile...


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## goldngirl

yep come on #59......heard David and Flip have been fantastic all week from the gallery


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## JusticeDog

birdthrower51 said:


> According to the blog, Dewey & Louie had a nice job. (Hey, that really sounds like a team!) Congratulations to them & to Chuck & Mary Jane on being a finalist! Now they can breath, and pick MJ off the ground.


And two nice people, Chuck & Mary Jane! Congrats on the finish.... now they get to hold their breath.


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## JusticeDog

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Sally is a littermate to my dog Boogie and Jay is a first class guy. I'm very excited they've made it to the end.
> 
> Shayne


Jay is great........ and so is Sally! A great finish....


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## HarryWilliams

> now they get to hold their breath.


To see who announces the winner real-time FIRST!!! ;-) HPW


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## Mark Sehon

Sally is another David Maronge bred dog making it to the Nationals.


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## D. Province

Funny as in no?


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## FOM

Bobby handled....


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## kip

Mark Sehon said:


> Sally is another David Maronge bred dog making it to the Nationals.


 congrats sally and jay and paul, sally is also another dog that came from me!  jay you owe me for selling you her.


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## K G

D. Province said:


> Funny as in no?


Funny as in "you think there was commotion over STILL pictures, just IMAGINE what would've happened if someone had posted video".....

I just hope the drama hasn't overshadowed the Championship...

kg


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## JS

D. Province said:


> Is there any video coverage?


Lainee will be putting that up on her web site next week! 

JS


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## Keith Holsted

Hey Kip got another one you don't need.


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## Franco

kip said:


> congrats sally and jay and paul, sally is also another dog that came from me!  jay you owe me for selling you her.


Is that the 7 week old pup I toted from Slidell to Tuscaloosa, couple years back?


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## K G

Three dogs that Kip started ran this National...one went out in the 9th and one is a finalist...not too shabby!

kg


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## cakaiser

Keith Holsted said:


> Hey Kip got another one you don't need.


Rumor has it he has a couple of pretty nice 2 yr olds. Don't know if he's selling , though......


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## Spa City

What an amazing week....even if I couldn't be there!!! Now that I can breathe again, congrats to all who qualified and to those who made it to the 10th. This game has allowed me to meet some really great people. Kippy, I do owe you for letting me buy Sally - never thought you were ever going to send those papers  She's a really special girl. But none of this could've happened without Pine Edge Retrievers.

Paul Sletten and Jess Bentley rock!!! Way to go guys. You deserve the spotlight and credit. 

Jay


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## Franco

I think the judges have plenty of time to do another series!;-)


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## cakaiser

Spa City said:


> Paul Sletten and Jess Bentley rock!!!
> Jay


No doubt about it!!
So happy for you guys, Jay!!


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## kip

Franco said:


> Is that the 7 week old pup I toted from Slidell to Tuscaloosa, couple years back?


 thats her franco, you said you started to keep her. lol


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## HiRollerlabs

birdthrower51 said:


> According to the blog, Dewey & Louie had a nice job. (Hey, that really sounds like a team!) Congratulations to them & to Chuck & Mary Jane on being a finalist! Now they can breath, and pick MJ off the ground.


Congrats to Louie Schweikert/Scott Dewey team and to Asst. trainer Isaac Langerud, and to Mary Jane and Chuck. Good, hardworking folks and nice dog. WAY TO GO!


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## 3blackdogs

Spa City said:


> This game has allowed me to meet some really great people.
> 
> But none of this could've happened without Pine Edge Retrievers.
> 
> Paul Sletten and Jess Bentley rock!!! Way to go guys. You deserve the spotlight and credit.
> 
> Jay


I'll second that!! They've had Sally pretty much from the day you got her, right? Big kudos to Paul, Jess and the Pine Edge crew. 



Us musketeers are thrilled for all of you: Jay and Lara, Sam, Will and Claire. 



Tell Sam to go get the dog biscuits ready. And fetch a Bass Ale or two for his old man...!


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## Mark Sehon

Thats is right Kip, you started her. To bad Sunny can not have any more pups.


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## Keith Holsted

Congatulations Jay,Paul,& Jess and of course "Sally" . Also Congrats to Scott & "Louie".


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## kip

Mark Sehon said:


> Thats is right Kip, you started her. To bad Sunny can not have any more pups.


 thats for sure! i never did understand why more people in this game didnt jump on davids breedings.


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## Spa City

Mark Sehon said:


> Thats is right Kip, you started her. To bad Sunny can not have any more pups.


I've always said Kippy is the best amateur dog trainer in the country.......since 1984 his record speaks for itself. He had Sally until she was 11 months old. I got to watch her run her first double when she was only 9 months old and thought to myself, "how in the world does he keep coming up with these dogs?" He continues the Elmwood Kennel tradition of excellence!

FYI - Mark Medford and I wish Sunny could have more pups too! Thanks to David Maronge -there are some daughters who will hopefully produce like their Mom.


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## cakaiser

The moral of the story is;
If you can get Kippy to take a pup, DO IT!! 

Little story on Chevy. I called him Cartman, he was yellow collar, fat and whiny...I was forever pulling him out from behind the bushes. He destroyed water bowls. 

Karen came to pick the pup, took her about 5 minutes. 
So, in addition to Kippy starting the pup, get Karen to pick it...


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## FOM

Congrats to Handler David Ward, Owner Gordy Alfter and especially 

*2009 NFC Mioaks Fabulous Flipper *

Way to go Team Flip!

FOM


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## thunderdan

Congrats....


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## Mark Sehon

Is Flipper the winner?


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## FOM

Mark Sehon said:


> Is Flipper the winner?


Well according to my source - yes! And according to the Blog - yes!


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## thunderdan

That is correct....


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## BonMallari

looks like we have a winner...wow all this before noon (9am PST)..did the judges have a plane to catch or a football game to watch....anyhow CONGRATS to all who qualified a dog for the National, that in itself is quite an accomplishment which many forget when we start cheering for a winner..we forget that to get to the National Open you had to win an Open...now lets talk about the National Am and Klamath Falls


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## goldngirl

Congratulations Dave and Flipper and Gordy! Wow......WOW

WOW....way to go! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, nicer dog and nicer owner!


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## K G

Congrats to Dave Ward....one of the nicest and most cooperative pro trainers running trials today. Glad to see his hard work rewarded!

kg


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## 3blackdogs

FOM said:


> Congrats to Handler David Ward, Owner Gordy Alfter and especially
> 
> *2009 NFC Mioaks Fabulous Flipper *
> 
> Way to go Team Flip!
> 
> FOM


*Fantastic!

Goes to show that nice guys can finish first! * 

*Congratulations to Dave and Dawn, Gordy and the Timber Ridge team.....we are thrilled for all of you!

Lydia and Doc Jeff
*


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## David Maronge

Congrat's to Sally/Jay and Paul, Mark Smith/Tex and all the qualifiers/finalists!

David Maronge and Maple Creeks Sunny Delight


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## YardleyLabs

Congratulations to all! I posted photos from the ninth series at http://www.wwworld.com/National/NationalDay6/. This one is of Flip, now NFC.


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## jollydog

A HUGE THANKS to Lainee for keeping us so well informed!

Congrats to everyone who made it there , to the Finalists & new NFC Flipper!!!


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## BonMallari

thanks Lainee for your real time coverage


Kudos to Jeff Goodwin, probably the best action photos i have ever seen from a National, what equipment did you use,being an old shutterbug I can appreciate fine work like yours


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## FOM

Thanks but the true reporters are the ones who passed me updates - I did the easy part! I will not say who provided me updates - they can reveal their identities if they desire! However a thanks goes out to them!!! 

Lainee


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## YardleyLabs

BonMallari said:


> thanks Lainee for your real time coverage
> 
> 
> Kudos to Jeff Goodwin, probably the best action photos i have ever seen from a National, what equipment did you use,being an old shutterbug I can appreciate fine work like yours


Thank you. Nikon D300 with a Nikon 80-400 AF/VR lens. Most photos taken at ISO 1250 or 1600 to retain fast shutter speeds with aperture setting of f/5.6-f/9 in most cases.


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## Sharon Potter

Great shots, Jeff...thanks for all your hard work.


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## Bill Benson

A very heartfelt congratulations to Flipper, Gordy, and Dave. You guys know I've been watching Flipper all year at her trials and she looked like she was ready for the big one. If Pearl were still alive, she'd be proud of her daughter, and Rosie is hoping to follow in her sister's paw prints.


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## Aaron Homburg

*Congratz to the winner Flipper! Also, a big congratz to the finalists, especially FC Louie and crew, Chuck and Mary Jane as well as Scott Dewey and Rock River Retrievers!!!! Way to Go!!!!

Aaron*


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## Chris Atkinson

FOM said:


> Thanks but the true reporters are the ones who passed me updates - I did the easy part! I will not say who provided me updates - they can reveal their identities if they desire! However a thanks goes out to them!!!
> 
> Lainee


 
you're too modest.

You busted your butt.

Thanks so very much!

Chris


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## jeff t.

YardleyLabs said:


> As I understand the definition, commercial does not refer to whether or not photos are ultimately sold but whether the venue for display is seen as being commercially driven by advertising, and competitive with RN's own commercially driven web sites. As was said to me, sponsors of the event pay for traffic on the RN web sites and do not want to see that traffic going elsewhere. My own web site is not seen as commercial since it carries no advertising and only includes my own photography. RTF is seen by some of those related to RN as a direct competitor.
> 
> Ironically, after I posted my photos from pre-National training on RTF, I was invited down to the National to take photos for Retriever News and was promised good physical access in return for providing photos for the RN sites and magazine. This was not an invitation I expected or sought out.
> 
> I accepted the invitation. When I arrived, I asked about the potential conflict with Molly since I have the utmost respect for her and her photography (a point I made in postings here when she was originally appointed last year). I was told that there would be no conflict since she would be tied up taking the formal portraits. At that time I was also told about the concerns about any posting of my National photos on RTF. Apparently, I was the first person to tell Molly that I had been invited down and she was understandably upset since she is the official photographer and has invested a lot of time and money to be there. She complained. I was told by the Committee that based on her contract it would not be fair for me to have any access beyond that generally available in the gallery. I was asked to take no photos while working as a marshal and was asked not to take any photos that would compete directly with the official portraits that Molly was taking as competitors left the line (something I had never planned on doing). I was asked to purchase a "sponsorship" for the week since I was selling my pictures, and I did so.
> 
> I will add, that I had no problems at all with these restrictions. I believe that Molly's official role carries some appropriate privileges. I only wish her official duties allowed her to spend more time near the line taking action shots since she is a very good photographer and I would love to see them posted. As a photographer, I was perfectly willing to accept an offer of closer access, but I did not seek it out.
> 
> The individual who invited me down also approached me that morning. He said that RN had exclusive rights to publicize the National and that if I posted any of my photos on RTF I would be expelled from the site of the trial and sued. For that reason and that reason only, I have not posted any of my photos from the National here. However, they are posted on my own web site. For anyone who has not read the site's terms and conditions, I allow my photos to be used on other web sites as long as credit is given (my photos are NOT in the public domain) and they are not being used for commercial purposes (including, for example, advertising a litter) without explicit permission, which I generally provide.
> 
> I have allowed my photos to be used by Retriever News without limitation and will continue to do so, just as I would be happy to provide Chris and RTF or the AKC a right to use my photos without limitation. I believe I have a special debt to the retriever community and the institutions that support it. They give me the opportunity to take the pictures I love and a place to run my dogs. It is also the community that buys the pups that I breed. Anything I can do that helps stimulate interest in our events and activities as a community ultimately benefits me. While I understand the narrow competitive argument used as a justification for threatening me, I do not agree with it. It uses too narrow a definition of competitiveness, thinking that we, the fans, will go to only one site or the other. The reality is that those of us who love this sport are hungry for details and we will go everywhere that satisfies our craving.
> 
> When I post my pictures on RTF, traffic on my own web site increases dramatically. When Retriever News invests in creating great content like Vicky's blog, their traffic increases. It is not a zero sum game. Anything that increases traffic in one area stimulates interest and everyone benefits. That's why you see so many photographers standing on the sidelines at sports competitions. The teams have learned that nothing drives traffic better to the "official" products and services than independent publications that help create more excitement. I believe Retriever News and the national clubs could learn from their example.
> 
> For now, however, I will defer from posting my own National photos here. I am not willing to be sued and would prefer not to be expelled from the grounds.


Thanks Jeff for sharing the high quality action shots of the dogs in competition. IMO those entrusted with the direction of our sport should be grateful that someone is providing photographs of this caliber for virtually every dog entered. I think more photos like yours are needed ..not less. I also appreciate that you label your pictures so we know what/who we are seeing. Pics without labels aren't of much value to those of us who don't know the identity of those in the photos. 

Thanks again for your efforts.


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## Andy Carlson

Thanks to everyone for the updates and photos!! It was great National coverage all around.

Andy


----------



## Becky Mills

What Andy said! Thank you!


----------



## labhauler

Major congrats to Bill Sargenti and Magic - great team again.

And thanks to all for the coverage. Exciting week - now what do we do?


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## jollydog

I just read the post from Jeff over the conflicts of his pictures & where they could be posted.

This fall was my 1st time to compete in the All Age divisions of field trials. Every chance I had I was going to the retriever blog , report , & RFT. I emailed myself the slide shows that Jeff made to show ,when I could , my high school classes - hoping to inspire young people to perhaps get interested in the sport. I guess I just don't "GET IT" from all the posts I've read why there has to be a conflict nor am I sure I want to. I know I have loved all the reports & pictures no matter where they came from or what site they were on & dream of the day that maybe I'll be there.....United we stand divided we fall.....Thanks to ALL who contributed... but most especially to the incredible dogs we love to watch who continue to amaze & inspire me.
I wouldn't have had the honor without the pictures. Thanks.


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## 7blackdogs

Congrats to Team Black River and Alan and Diesel!!!


----------



## john fallon

Does the Retriever Field Trial News still publish the judges scores by series for each of the the finalists when it publishes its _report_ on the trial. ?

john


----------



## Shayne Mehringer

jollydog said:


> I just read the post from Jeff over the conflicts of his pictures & where they could be posted.
> 
> This fall was my 1st time to compete in the All Age divisions of field trials. Every chance I had I was going to the retriever blog , report , & RFT. I emailed myself the slide shows that Jeff made to show ,when I could , my high school classes - hoping to inspire young people to perhaps get interested in the sport. I guess I just don't "GET IT" from all the posts I've read why there has to be a conflict nor am I sure I want to. I know I have loved all the reports & pictures no matter where they came from or what site they were on & dream of the day that maybe I'll be there.....United we stand divided we fall.....Thanks to ALL who contributed... but most especially to the incredible dogs we love to watch who continue to amaze & inspire me.
> I wouldn't have had the honor without the pictures. Thanks.


I wish I had teachers like you where I was in high school!

Well said Sylvia!

SM


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## Gun_Dog2002

Shayne Mehringer said:


> I wish I had teachers like you where I was in high school!
> 
> Well said Sylvia!
> 
> SM


You even had an extra year and half in high school to find one.....

/Paul


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## Howard N

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> You even had an extra year and half in high school to find one.....
> 
> /Paul


He only went to school for social reasons. Doubt he ever actually listened to a teacher.


----------

