# EBONSTAR LEAN MAC Questions (History)



## check171

Just doing some research on him knowing how many champions he sired how many of you seen him run and what was he like as a dog ?

Also who trained him ? 

I know Lardy won nationals with him did Lardy do all the training ?

I know there is alot of knowledge here and someone will be able to help and i want to thank you in advance ..


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## pistol

i believe he was in training with don remein when he won his first national.
his record as a producer is probably average if you calculate the number of titled dogs thrown in relation to puppies produced. he was almost bred as much as wilt chamberlain!!!!
________
BMW OHV V8 ENGINE


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## pafromga

Good dog has that he sired 137 FCs,AFCs,CFCs, or CAFCs.


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## frontier

Lean Mac Information from Working Retriever "Retriever Field Hall of Fame" dogs

http://working-retriever.com/retrpast/ebonstar_lean_mac.html


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## check171

thanks for the Link


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## Tim West

I didn't see Max run that much but have very vivid memories of the times I did.

The first time I saw him was at the N. Texas trial in Ardmore when he blew Sherwin Scott off on a land blind and Sherwin had to make the walk of shame to get him in. Maxx prey drive was phenominal and getting him into the line without a bird was some kind of a task.

The next time I saw him was at Mike Lardy's workshop a week after his Canadian Natl win the last time. They were running a double blind and Max just turned around and popped. I asked Lardy if that bothered him that he popped and he said "no, he probably heard a bird or something". Hmmm. I got some fabulous pics of Max on line, with me shooting him with a long lense and getting shots you would not get at a trial or Natl due to the closeness I was to him. I have often wondered if Sherwin had pics like this, cause most of us never think to get action shots of our dogs at the line (me included). He spanked a nice retired gun triple on this test if I recall, and his butt I don't think was ever on the ground on line.

The next time I saw him was quite a bit at the last Natl in Oklahoma in 2000. I was a bird steward which means I was at the line during many series. I remember him really doing a nice job in the super tough fifth series which had a bird thrown down from a steep hill to the bottom of a pond behind a huge stand of cattails. Dogs were bailing out early and not hunting down to the bird. Max did it exremely well, and was only beaten by his son Prize who ultimately won the trial. Interestingly enough, Max almost never ran this series. He had a walking pheasant on the flier and the judges decided to give him a re-run after Mike had already sent him. Lardy was tooting his lungs out and pleading for Max to return and Max was having none of it. He was putting on a very hard hunt and was oblivious to the whistles. Lardy left the line, went almost across the road to get him (which I don't think was exactly cricket) and the judges were having discussions about when it was time to drop him. After warning him that he was going to have to get him Max finally gave in and retured to run the test six dogs later.

I also have probably the ONLY film ever taken from a National from the opposite end of the line. I was a blind planter in the seventh series (I think) were we were camo'd in a huge brush pile blind, directly behind the blind pole about 430 yards. I have video of Max and several other dogs actually running the blind from start to finish. I'm sure the head bird steward would not have been happy to know I was filming while the Natl's were being run!

My last time to see Max was a very sad time at that National, and I was behind him on the line when Mike lost him on the water blind in the 8th. Max was the very last dog to run and as the sun set a white pvc drain pipe was illuminated as if it had a spotlight on it. None of the other dogs were affected by it, but it shone like a mirror when Max ran in the setting sun. The dog had to get on a big broad point and cast off. Not a very tough blind by today's Open standards but a usual Natl Open blind. Mike put him on the point at an angle where he let him get on and off on his own will, unlike the other contestants who stopped them and cast them off. Max went over that point with a full head of steam and saw that white cap and that was it. Mikes first whistle was normal, the second had some concern to it. The rest of them were as hard as a man can blow and still retain his plumbing. The Fox 40 emergency whistle was ignored as well. Afterward Mike would say that Max was losing his hearing, and that was probably true, but that prey drive had something to do with it also I'm telling you. Sadly, Pat Sawyer had just arrived before the blind to see Max finish and maybe win his last trial. She was in tears afterwards as I'm sure Mike was, and sadly, that's the last time I saw this magnificent animal.


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## Ken Archer

Wow, Tim, that kind of post is why I read RTF every day. Thanks.


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## lablover

Now that's a post!

I saw Max at the 97 Natl Open in SC.

He was being aired by Dave Smith, walking down a road. I introduced myself to Dave and we chatted for a few minutes, and resumed walking. I asked who the dog was, and dave replied, "Lean Mac". I knew who he was, and commented that I had never seen him in the flesh, only in pictures in RFTN. I said he looks just like every other black Lab male, to which Dave commented, "Yes he does. But he has better eyes than most of them". :lol: 

Priceless!!


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## Scott Adams

Tim,
Great post. Your pictures should be posted! The video needs to find it's way to youtube! Don't ask me how, but I'll bet someone here could help.
Thanks for the story.


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## Hilltop

Tim,

Wow just wow. Your post sent chills down my spine! What a way to start the morning. Now I know why I regularly check this site (but never post 8) .


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## ducksoup

Really liked hearing the two stories about Lean Mac -- especially Tim's -- Tim if you could post pictures or better yet video that would be great


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## Aaron Homburg

*post*

*Tim awesome post!!!!! I would love to see the pics and video like everyone else. Those of us "newbies" to this game did not have the priviledge of watching this magnificent animal run!

Jealous Regards,

Aaron*


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## Richard Finch

*Tim*

Great post brother!!!!

Love hearing the old war stories. Ecspecially about Maxx.




Richard


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## GG

A Canadian trainer named Dennis Robbins did the early training on Maxx.
GG


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## frontier

Great Post Tim!  

It never ceases to amaze me the details that some retriever enthusiasts can remember and describe from years ago regarding setups and each individual dog performance at trials or tests.

As much as I learned about retriever training at the Lardy Clinic when I attended several years ago, I also equally enjoyed watching the two days or pre-trial training with Mike and Dave Smith and seeing some of the greats Maxx, Prize, Abe, Bunny, and other FC-AFCs "up close and personal".

Thanks for sharing.


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## FOM

Tim,

PLEASE POST THE PICTURES!!!!!!!!!! Pretty please 

Lainee, Flash and Bullet


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## pafromga

FOM said:


> Tim,
> 
> PLEASE POST THE PICTURES!!!!!!!!!! Pretty please
> 
> Lainee, Flash and Bullet


I agree---lets see the pictures. 
Very good story.


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## hhlabradors

FOM said:


> Tim,
> 
> PLEASE POST THE PICTURES!!!!!!!!!! Pretty please



With sugar on top....

What a GREAT post!


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## SueLab

What Tim failed to mention was that Lean Mac occupied the rear seat of Mike Lardy's truck during the Oklahoma National...


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## Charles C.

I think all the pleas for pictures are falling on deaf ears. I'm pretty sure Tim is headed for a trial to chase points to qualify for the Nat'l Am.


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## Labs Will-Do

Adding to this Lean Mac discussion, Lardy's comment at a seminar this spring regarding folks talking about shying away from Lean Mac in breeding was something along the lines of why would you knock something that works. He of course spoke very highly of the actual dog himself when questions were discussed and the other dog that came up often that he seemed sold on was his offspring Patton. And, he had some super performing Patton offspring to back it up.


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## check171

Tim thank you for your post thats the kind of info we all like to hear ..

If you can post some pics . that would be great


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## Ken Guthrie

Awesome Tim.................

Like Bruce Wafflehouse always says..............

Field Trialers should take more pictures to save the memories.


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## Lonny Taylor

I guess I can weigh in on my Lean Mac story. I knew of max when he was owned by his first owner Jacque McClean. I was running on my annual trip to canada to run the three trials up in BC and Max was at the end of his derby carreer. Jacque(God rest his soul) was a very large man and justifiably proud of his dog. When I watched him run, the only thing that was going to keep him from placing was breaking or beating Jacque to the line too many times. By far the greatest marking dog to that point in my time doing trials at that time. Max had not had alot of training in comparison to todays standards. 

Max ran his first qualifying and had had two great series. He then proceeded to do a water blind mostly by land. Jacque came up to the gallery afterwords and asked a couple folks what they thought and some were being nice and said " well jacque you never know how they will judge it". I being one not to let it go told him I was pretty sure that he would be dropped considering that he had just done a water blind with the dog doing it all the way down the bank. He grinned at me and told me he appreciated my honesty. 

Later that nite he came over to my cabin and visited with me. You could sure tell he loved that dog. He told me that a fellow was offering him an awful lot of money for him and he was considering taking him up on it. I told him I wouldnt even consider it but it depended on what you wanted. If you want a Field champion I would take him to the best pro you could afford and have him trained but if the money was that good - sell him. He told me that the guy was also offering him some puppies also. 

It did work out best for max because he did get great training and unforturnately Jacque passed away a couple of years later. I am pretty sure that it was a tough decision for jacque because he really loved max. 

I have always held that memory of one of the greatest marking dogs and the big burlly good natured canadian that first owned him. 

LT


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## Zack

I dont know about everyone else, but I wish we could see alot more of this type of thing here on RTF. Makes wading through the BS worthwhile. Thanks to both of you for sharing your stories!


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## 2tall

This is what it is really all about. Now we just need to collect the Honcho, Lottie, Max etc stories and put them all in a sticky! I am a newbie, but love these stories. Each day I understand more of what went in to the breedingof my buddy. What a great forum, and great stories. Please keep it up, and I promise not to give training or breeding advice


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## Dave Kress

*Mac*

Marty and I also witnessed the 2 events that Tim speaks of. Tim is right-on with the observations however I will add some "filler"
The oklahoma event was so cold with so much wind that it would freeze your a----- off. Mac came back on that series with a bird over his eyes and visited the entire gallery before he found Mike.

With regards to the water blind that Mac retired on- There was not a dry eye in the place.

dave K


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## James-TX

*Re: Mac*



Dave Kress said:


> Marty and I also witnessed the 2 events that Tim speaks of. Tim is right-on with the observations however I will add some "filler"
> The oklahoma event was so cold with so much wind that it would freeze your a----- off. Mac came back on that series with a bird over his eyes and visited the entire gallery before he found Mike.
> 
> With regards to the water blind that Mac retired on- There was not a dry eye in the place.
> 
> dave K


I was at the National in Oklahoma the day he ran to the gallery. I was walking towards the line to see the test when I heard Max was running. The next thing I know here comes Max with the bird in his mouth and the wing (I think it was a pheasant) covering his face. We were a good 30 yards down a hill from the line. He almost healed to me and I thought what the hell. I pulled out my camera and snapped a pic of him. I will try to find and post. This was the first time I had seen him and it would be like seeing MJ for the first time. Great day.


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## Miriam Wade

Zack said:


> I dont know about everyone else, but I wish we could see alot more of this type of thing here on RTF. Makes wading through the BS worthwhile. Thanks to both of you for sharing your stories!


Ditto! I post a lot of stupid, stupid, stupid, but it's a thrill to be able to read stories that give you an idea what the dog was really like- beyond knowing that he/she was titled.

M


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## Ken Guthrie

Miriam Wade said:


> Ditto! I post a lot of stupid, stupid, stupid, but it's a thrill to be able to read stories that give you an idea what the dog was really like- beyond knowing that he/she was titled.
> 
> M


Just ask Kip if you don't know........... :lol: :lol:


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## Tim Marshall

Every once in a while there's a post on here worth wearing out a toner cartridge on. 

Great post, thank yall



More war stories please...


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## ducksoup

This thread on Maxx is great -- really what RTF is all about -- thanks for sharing your stories especially Tim and Lonnie -- really appreciate this


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## Marvin S

*Lean Mac & Jock McLean*

Lean Mac had some early training by Dennis Robbins, how much or how often is open to question. Jock ran him all the way through the derby & into handling. When he ran into difficulties is when he sold him to Patricia & Sherwin. 

Jock loved the dog to the point of being Kennel blind. Jock & I would talk about our mutual interest in blowing things up, Jock being a Powder Monkey & me being a Mining Engineer. We did not talk about dogs as a reality comment could set him off, but he was a nice man, just that Lean Mac was his 1st dog of importance.

When Lean Mac was sold he went to Don Remien who trained him prior to his NAFC. After that he went to Lardy & we didn't see much of him on the West Coast or in Montana, but I had seen him quite often prior to that time. 

He was not the best marking dog I have ever seen, that goes to NFC Butte Blue Moon as being the most consistent Marker land & water. The best 1 trial marking performance was done by NAFC Ray's Rascal at the Idaho RC spring trial in the early 70's. The additional difference was that both those dogs did very good water blinds. 

Marvin S


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## lab-a-holic

Does anyone know how old Lean Mac was when he died? What did he die of? An answer would be appreciated.


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## Dogtrainer4God

12 years old, died of old age???


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## Dogtrainer4God

Does anybody know what he died of?


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## lab-a-holic

Thank you Abby - it would be interesting to know what he died of -


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## FOM

I harassed Tim this weekend about posting the pictures, he says he will try and locate them........let's hope he can find them!

FOM


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## Losthwy

Love reading stories about Mac. I wish there was more. Seems there ought to be a book about him filled with remembrances of those who knew the dog. Doubt it would make the New York Times Best Sellers List, but I would certainly read it. Butt never touching the ground, extreme prey drive sounds like a grandson I know.


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## Tim West

Im back from the long drive from Colorado.

I've got to find the pics which I'll try to do tomorrow. For now, I'm hitting the pool with the family.

Tim


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## Aussie

Bump!!! More stories please. And Tim, the photos also, please. 

From a personal view, as I imported an inbred Lean Mac son, I researched. I greatly enjoyed the various input, good and bad.


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## Tim West

I started looking last night. I found some pics of him running a female, which i think was Hattie McBunn, and Mike and Dave honoring dogs. I think I also found one of Mike Maxx from the back with a big wide shot of his setup.

I'll find them tongiht...stay tuned!

I also talked to my good buddy Al Wilson who was the blind planter in the eighth. So, he saw the blind from the other end. He said that as soon as Max blasted off the point he had his ears back and had his mind on one thing....the white object which was the pvc drain. Al said the whistles were VERY loud, and even though Lardy attributed it to Max's deafness, Al thinks the prey drive kicked it as I do, and that was it!


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## Doug Grant

*More Maxx Info........*

Jock MacLean, Maxx's original owner, bought the pup from Ray & Kathy Stevenson of Ebonstar kennels in Gadsby, Alberta. Jock lived 30 miles away from my training grounds in B.C. Jock was a fascinating man, and I'll relate some information about him, mostly taken from an article I submitted to Retrievers Online (Vol. VIII #6 pp. 17&18). Just about the time Maxx reached two, Jock was training with Reg Williams and me at Parker, AZ. One evening, Jock came to my trailer and asked me to read a letter he had received. I started reading it (to myself) and Jock said "please read it aloud". I hadn't known it before, but it turned out that Jock was illiterate. He could sign his name, but really couldn't read or write. The letter was a conditional offer from Sherwin Scott to purchase Maxx. Best thing that could have happened, because Maxx was becoming very unmanageable for Jock. 
At that time, I didn't pay too much attention to the stories Jock told, because they seemed too far-fetched to be true, but I subsequently found out that they were indeed true. 
Jock started off his career as an amateur boxer from 1949-53. He travelled to bouts in Edmonton, Portland and Salt Lake City. He hung up his gloves because he thought that Canadian fighters weren't given the same opportunity as their American counterparts. A Canadian named Earl Walz knocked out American Rex Lane. Walz never got the title shot he deserved.
Jock, from Melville, Saskatchewan,, lied about his age to get into the army. His papers stated he was born in 1927, three years before his actual birth date.
His first taste of fame came while hunting octopus near Port Hardy in 1956. They used to cut up octopus to use for bait while fishing for halibut. While swimming, octopus spread their tentacle to steer. Jock would fin his way through the tentacles and into the space behind the beast's head. Imagine swimming between 10-foot tentacle and into a black hole. Talk about guts! One day Jock landed a true monster. This massive creature measured 32 feet across, and tipped the scales at close to 700 lbs. They harvested 400 lbs. of meat off the catch. This landed Jock on the front page of TIME magazine.
Jock had witnessed killer whales chase sea lions; one bite and half a sea lion would dispappear. One day Jock was down checking dens when he heard a squeaking sound. Initially, he thought it came from a boat, then he noticed a large white underbelly and a black eye staring at him from a few feet away. Jock crawled into the nearest den until the Orca swam away. 
Jock was one of the first three 'frogmen' to arrive at the scene when a 370-foot span of the Second Narrows Bridge collapsed into Burrard Inlet in Vancouver on June 17, 1958. He battled fast currents to rescue surviving construction workers and retrieve the dead. One worker was dragged underwater by a collapsed steel beam. Jock located the worker, who had survived by breathing trapped air. Jock managed to free the man and as they started to make the ascent, Jock realized the man had lost a leg and had wrapped an impromptu tourniquet around the stump to stop the bleeding.
Jock later saved a buddy after they crashed a Cessna off the West coast of the Queen Charlotte Islands. While the plane was sinking,, Jock had the presence of mind, after kicking out the windshield, to hold his tobacco and lighter in his teeth while towing his unconscious friend to shore. Once on land, he lit a fire, dried out their clothes and built a shelter until they were rescued.
Before becoming involved with retrievers, Jock was an avid team roper at rodeo events.
Jock worked for many years as a demolition expert, and later had a company called Jock's Blasting. When it was decided to try to eliminate a great navigational hazard in Georgia Strait, off the East Coast of Vancouver Island, Jock was involved in setting the demolition charges that would blow apart the submerged rocks that were the cause of many shipwrecks. At the time, it was the largest non-nuclear explosion ever created; the equivalent of 7 box-car loads of explosives!
After Jock sold Maxx, he thought he would have no problem bringing along another dog of the same caliber......he started a couple more dogs, but of course none would ever match Maxx's ability. 
Jock was an inveterate cigarette smoker, which lead to his death due to lung cancer. I visited him shortly before he passed, and he insisted on smoking right up to his death.
After his death, his widow, Polly, gave me most of his training equipment.
One of the puppy bumpers that was used for Maxx's early training, I donated to the Bird Dog Hall of Fame last year.
Jock MacLean; one of the most unforgettable characters I have ever met.


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## Marvin S

*Jock McLean*

Bopper,

Thank You!!!!!

Marvin S


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## Trevor Toberny

thats an awesome story and if all that about him is true then he was one great man that did alot in his lifetime along with owning a dog that will be one of the best if not the best in the history of Field labs.


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## jeff t.

What a great thread!

Thanks for sharing,


Jeff


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## ducksoup

Thanks for that story on Jock


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## KEITH L

doug / bopper 

i was hoping you would chime in and tell the other's what you 
knew of jock i alway's felt this part of maxx's story needed,
to be told. as a humble retired pro. you were also part of the
beginning of a legend people are unaware of. one thing i haven't 
read on the treads though lean mac the reverse of jocks last name 
is were the name came from... 


keith
________
Suzuki rg250 history


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## tpaschal30

What a great thread. I found Jock's boxing record. Sounds like a heckuva man.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=076474


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## A_Fever

Very interesting reading. Thanks.


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## Hambone

Great posts on Maxx. I have a pup with Maxx as grand-sire and she must have gotten some of that prey drive because she is all go. I really enjoy reading his story. Thanks for posting.


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## Tatyana

Just curious if the video of Maxx was ever found? I'd love to see it.


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## smillerdvm

I'd love to see it also


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## Criquetpas

I judged him in the Open when he first went on Mike's truck. I also, saw him run at his first trial when Lardy got him in training. He came out of the holding blind "rocking and rolling" , Mike said we are going to fix that and he did! Ran against Maxx more then a few times and as I remeber wished he "stayed home" . He was a great animal make no mistake about it! Dont' know much about his early training other then the "early ads" as who had the most Derby Points ,Junior Points (Canadian) vrs American Derby points and the humorous Lottie vrs Maxx stories on the total points. Both were great animals and who had the most derby points was in the category of "who cares" .


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## born2retrieve

I would have loved to breath the same air as Max!! Not to take anything for all the rest of the greats.


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## born2retrieve

Check out the pics from Tim West thread on bottom of this Page!!


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## Dianne MacLean

Hi There
I am Jocks oldest child. 
Thank you for your article.It touched me deeply, he was quite a character!!
I, in fact, did not know he was illiterate!! It explains a lot about my childhood and his suspicion of Schools and Academia.. He used to tease me about "Book Learn'in" and "Fancy Words"
He said it was easier to train dogs than kids...
He taught me to think. For that I am gratefull.
Thanks Again
Dianne MacLean
ps. I too am somewhat of a character...


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## Duck Blind

Found this video of Lean Mac running a blind - Two dogs run the blind. Lean Mac is the second dog to run. Blind planter is shooting the video. Wonder if this is the video Tim shot? 

http://


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## Mark Teahan

This is really interesting.
Mac is my traps great grandad on his mothers side.


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## John Lash

He is nearly everyones dad, grandad or great granddad...


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## Scott Adams

Dianne, I wonder if you are aware of, how many of us have your dad's dog, somewhere in our dogs pedigrees.
If not, you'd be astounded.


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## Dianne MacLean

Thank you all so much..I loved that dog and so did my Dad. I don't know if you are aware that my dad had a yellow lab he had great hopes for, but it died after he accidently ran over it.Dad was heartbroken and never realy got over that...I wonder who that dog was?? Bloodlines etc


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## Ironwood

pafromga said:


> Good dog has that he sired 137 FCs,AFCs,CFCs, or CAFCs.


Correction is needed on your titled offsring (not 137) Titled off spring is *157*


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## goin2drt

Scott Adams said:


> Dianne, I wonder if you are aware of, how many of us have your dad's dog, somewhere in our dogs pedigrees.
> If not, you'd be astounded.


I have one. Quasi's son and Lean Mac's grandpa. He is the best.


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## Vicky Trainor

Dianne MacLean said:


> Hi There
> I am Jocks oldest child.
> Thank you for your article.It touched me deeply, he was quite a character!!
> I, in fact, did not know he was illiterate!! It explains a lot about my childhood and his suspicion of Schools and Academia.. He used to tease me about "Book Learn'in" and "Fancy Words"
> He said it was easier to train dogs than kids...
> He taught me to think. For that I am gratefull.
> Thanks Again
> Dianne MacLean
> ps. I too am somewhat of a character...


Dianne,

Welcome to RTF and thanks for the additional information about your Dad. We would love to hear more about your Dad and Maxx's early days that you may remember!


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## blind ambition

I don't know how I missed this thread when it first came out, thanks Doug for telling the story of a truly heroic man. Jock's life read's like a Hemingway or Jack London character, it would make a heck of of movie. I hadn't put together the connection before but it sounds like the Stevenson's either let Jock write his own registered name or they gave him a great compliment in writing it for him.
Jock MacLean/Lean Mac Ebonstar


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## Dianne MacLean

Thank you all so much! One thing I do remember about Dads training of Maxx is that he wouldn't let anyone else give Maxx commands.He said it would confuse him. Although Dad spent hours a day with Maxx he didn't bring him in the house or let us treat him like a pet. Dad was like an animal whisper. I once had an old black lab named Bart that I rescued from the SPCA. Bart and I lived in the bush for a while and we made a harness for Bart to pull firewood and water to my cabin, Bart and I went on many adventures together. I thought Bart was my dog. When Dad came to visit Bart jumped in his truck and would get down until dad told him to. Bart would do anything for my Dad...i eventuly gave Bart to Dad.


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## Dianne MacLean

When I was a child in Prince Rupert, BC Dad became friends with John Wayne. Universal Studios wanted to make a movie of Dads life starring John Wayne. Dad said he was too busy for that "Hollywood Stuff" Dad was the person who invented the first Aqua lung rescitator when he could not save a drowned child. He never patented it.He shared the information with Jacque Cousteau and the rest is history. He was an avid hunter and set records in Boone and Crockett.
Thanks Again someday I would love to have one of Lean Mac s descendents..Anyone have an old retired dog that needs a home??


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## Dave Farrar

This whole thread is pretty cool. I wouldn't trade my Lean Mac grandson for all of the tea in China. He is 10 months old and my 1st Lab. I looked at pedigrees before I bought because I wanted Lean Mac genes.


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## Vicky Trainor

Dianne MacLean said:


> When I was a child in Prince Rupert, BC Dad became friends with John Wayne. Universal Studios wanted to make a movie of Dads life starring John Wayne. Dad said he was too busy for that "Hollywood Stuff" Dad was the person who invented the first Aqua lung rescitator when he could not save a drowned child. He never patented it.He shared the information with Jacque Cousteau and the rest is history. He was an avid hunter and set records in Boone and Crockett.
> Thanks Again someday I would love to have one of Lean Mac s descendents..Anyone have an old retired dog that needs a home??


Diane,

It is so wonderful that you are sharing more information about your Dad and Lean Mac! I love reading what you are sharing!

There are many of us that have dogs with Lean Mac in the pedigree. He definitely influenced the field lines of the Labrador Retriever!


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## canuckkiller

Tim West - if you will reduce the number of private messages, I will
send you a PM re Lean Mac

Let me know ASAP my real email - [email protected]

Bill Connor


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## jollydog

I am not sure if this is the last breeding to Maxx or not....My dog had 10 puppies June 7 2011.
8 yellow and 2 black. Sherwin told me that was a record for the number of yellows Maxx threw.
Most are doing very well. 
Thanks for sharing your stories.


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## Tim West

Bill, just reduced my emails. Pics can be seen on another thread I posted below. The videos that have been posted are indeed the ones that took as a blind planter. Two two time NAFC's running the same blind. Pretty cool!


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## mohaled

Sylvia, that's a cool picture of the pups, like to get my hand on one or two. Wonder what brand of dog food they're fed. ;-)


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## 30 caliber

This is the best thread I've ever read on RTF. I have a Lean Mac great-granddaughter with that incredible prey drive (Ceilidh). Thanks for the great stories.


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## debrey7

I am Jock MacLeans daughter, he was the original owner who trained Lean Mac from the time he was 49 days old. He won the worlds title at 2 yrs old and sold him to Sherwin. My brother has many pictures as well as Lean Mac's story of how my Dad trained him and memories along the way.
My brother Dale MacLean will be registering on this site in the next few days.


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## Dustin D

debrey7 said:


> I am Jock MacLeans daughter, he was the original owner who trained Lean Mac from the time he was 49 days old. He won the worlds title at 2 yrs old and sold him to Sherwin. My brother has many pictures as well as Lean Mac's story of how my Dad trained him and memories along the way.
> My brother Dale MacLean will be registering on this site in the next few days.



Nice!


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## Dave Kress

I was there and saw it as Tim described. Not a dry eye anywhere 
Dk


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## Terry Marshall

I understand that there is Semen available from Lean Mac, can any one shed lite on this, and $
Thanks
TM


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## Dave Kress

Just a quick little add to this string : 

Jock was at the 2014 Saskatoon Ht with a few dogs. 
Our almost 10 year old Faith ( a lean Mac granddaughter via Ford) was airing to be ready 
Jock whom we had never met hollers out "Ebby". After a few moments we understood he was calling Faith over. 
Jock was stunned and speechless as he swore for a moment Ebby was back. He sat down and Faith got in his lap and there were several photos taken of Jock and the 2 nd Ebby. 
It was touching 
Dk


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## USAR K9

Loved reading this thread! Thank you to those that shared stories & video!


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## Clint Watts

debrey7 said:


> I am Jock MacLeans daughter, he was the original owner who trained Lean Mac from the time he was 49 days old. He won the worlds title at 2 yrs old and sold him to Sherwin. My brother has many pictures as well as Lean Mac's story of how my Dad trained him and memories along the way.
> My brother Dale MacLean will be registering on this site in the next few days.


Did Dale MacLean ever share his pictures and story? 

This is the best read I have had in a while, great stories and history. Thanks for the bump.


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## Parker M.

Glad someone bumped this back up. Sure awesome to read the story of probably the best dog to ever run. I would enjoy reading about all the greats!


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## quackaddict2

a tremendous read for sure,got to know Sherwin a little,heard so much about maxx,knew very little about his origins,thank you for bumping this back up


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## EdA

Parker M. said:


> Sure awesome to read the story of probably the best dog to ever run!


That is quite debatable Maxx was a wonderful dog but.........


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## Terry Marshall

Ed I love your new avatar,
My GOODEEST dog,Honey who was spayed, a Chubby Mac dog who we lost last November at 11, was never tested.
Give us the run down on EIC from dog to dog if you can.
Thanks, you are a great asset to this sport.


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## Dakota's Wild Ride

Great read. Lots of wonderful anecdotes. Both of my new pups have a little Mac in them. Funny thing is that's the only place they cross. 

Curious if there is a similar thread about Lottie. Sorry for being Nieve but what was Lottie's call sign, full name?


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## mjh345

Dakota's Wild Ride said:


> Great read. Lots of wonderful anecdotes. Both of my new pups have a little Mac in them. Funny thing is that's the only place they cross.
> 
> Curious if there is a similar thread about Lottie. Sorry for being Nieve but what was Lottie's call sign, full name?


Candlewoods tanks a lot


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## Dakota's Wild Ride

Thank you.


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## labsforme

3 x NFC Candlewood Tanks A Lot. Do a Google search on her and the Candlewood website has a neat story. My avatar is a Lottie grand daughter.


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## Steve Shaver

Parker M. said:


> Glad someone bumped this back up. Sure awesome to read the story of probably the best dog to ever run. I would enjoy reading about all the greats!





As Ed said, Maxx was an incredible dog but the best to ever run????? I'm not a great historian on the game but Lottie would get my vote hands down.


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## BonMallari

Steve Shaver said:


> As Ed said, Maxx was an incredible dog but the best to ever run????? I'm not a great historian on the game but Lottie would get my vote hands down.


you ever hear about NFC NAFC CNFC Wanapum Darts Dandy and owner/handler Charles Hill ?


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## Steve Shaver

BonMallari said:


> you ever hear about NFC NAFC CNFC Wanapum Darts Dandy and owner/handler Charles Hill ?




Do tell Bon, please. Heard the name but that's all I know. Don't see how anything could possibly compare to Lottie. I mean to be bred 5 time and produce 22 FC's and win 3 nationals to boot, not to mention 108 derby points. Just blows my mind. Maxx was a great producer but compare the times being bred to numbers produced he aint poop to Lottie and she actually had to whelp the litter all Max did was plant the seed. I'd give my left nut for a dog like Lottie. Hell I'm getting old I'd give both of them. What would a Lean Mac x Lottie litter be like? I love history of all kinds so please Bon tell me more.


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## BonMallari

Steve Shaver said:


> Do tell Bon, please. Heard the name but that's all I know. Don't see how anything could possibly compare to Lottie. I mean to be bred 5 time and produce 22 FC's and win 3 nationals to boot, not to mention 108 derby points. Just blows my mind. Maxx was a great producer but compare the times being bred to numbers produced he aint poop to Lottie and she actually had to whelp the litter all Max did was plant the seed. I'd give my left nut for a dog like Lottie. Hell I'm getting old I'd give both of them. What would a Lean Mac x Lottie litter be like? I love history of all kinds so please Bon tell me more.



Dandy and Charley Hill held the National Open '75 , National Amateur '76, and CNFC '76,'77 at the same time, also a 5X National Finalist. She won 6 Double Headers and had 106.5 Open points and 107.5 Amateur points...She wasn't the producer of progeny that Lottie was, but as a performer she and Charley were one of those teams that were always going to be in the mix at the end of a trial

before anyone gets their shorts bunched up, you will never be able to compare/contrast the careers of Lean Mac vs Lottie vs Dandy, they all ran at different times and all had different impacts on the retriever game..Each dog was very dominant on the circuit in their respective era


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## Dakota's Wild Ride

*Lottie Lines*



labsforme said:


> 3 x NFC Candlewood Tanks A Lot. Do a Google search on her and the Candlewood website has a neat story. My avatar is a Lottie grand daughter.


Pretty amazing dog. I've had four labs with pretty decent pedigrees and don't see her anywhere in there. Is your Lottie granddaughter from Candlewoods? Are there any particular kennels keeping Lottie genes alive?


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## Steve Shaver

Dakota's Wild Ride said:


> Pretty amazing dog. I've had four labs with pretty decent pedigrees and don't see her anywhere in there. Is your Lottie granddaughter from Candlewoods? Are there any particular kennels keeping Lottie genes alive?




Bitch side of Ed's dog Holland goes there pretty well. Don't know what Ed thinks but I would give Lottie a lot of credit for the dog that Holland is.


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## labsforme

Not speaking for Ed, but Kweezy sure did!!
Dakota, she was from Conestoga Kennels, which is basically no more.


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## Jacob Hawkes

Steve Shaver said:


> Bitch side of Ed's dog Holland goes there pretty well. Don't know what Ed thinks but I would give Lottie a lot of credit for the dog that Holland is.


I'd think he would say Kweezy & then Willie. That was the best breeding to Kweezy & she produced a titled dog or 2 (Obviously a lot more than that & with 3 different sires.).


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## moscowitz

All I can say is thank you everyone. Great read. I want more.


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## EdA

Steve Shaver said:


> Bitch side of Ed's dog Holland goes there pretty well. Don't know what Ed thinks but I would give Lottie a lot of credit for the dog that Holland is.


Giving credit where credit is due do not forget Lottie's sire Tank and his sire Honcho, Holland's bitch side is awesome, 3 of the most productive bitches in the history of field trials. Kweezy has 11 titled offspring, 8 from Code Blue, 1 from Pow, and 3 from Willy, that being her most successful litter.


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## Steve Shaver

Jacob Hawkes said:


> I'd think he would say Kweezy & then Willie. That was the best breeding to Kweezy & she produced a titled dog or 2 (Obviously a lot more than that & with 3 different sires.).






Well where do you think Kweezy got it? That bitch line goes back to Lottie is all I'm sayin. I could be wrong (I was once) but I don't think Willie produced all that well or at least not as well as with Kweezy. I have a 9 yr old female that was sired by Willie x Top Brass Roxx the Boat ( Kweezy"s sister) that was a hell of a dog. I credit the bitch line, which goes back to Lottie, More than I do Willie.




PS.... What Ed said, none better


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## canuckkiller

BON -

WELL SAID!! I held the book on both. Dandy judging with John Ball at NWRC Sept. '76 a Win
in a tough Open, good dogs & "the Island Test" in Pepper's Ponds that contestants trained
on the following week. Lottie with Andy Whiteley at the Shelby Cty. Penal Farms '89 winning a
60 dog Open at 27 months over 2nd place & seasoned Stone's Throw Marion's Choice.

In Chapter 28 in my book TRIALS JUDGED AND REMARKS I talk about the eleven top retrievers
I held the on. The first 4 are (not in order of ranking) Lottie, Dandy, River Oaks Corky & River
Oaks Rascal. Bon's input is spot on. And, on any given day, judges, tests & conditions always
validate that "dogs can be just dogs" regardless of inherent qualities.

WD


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## EdA

EdA said:


> Giving credit where credit is due do not forget Lottie's sire Tank and his sire Honcho, Holland's bitch side is awesome, 3 of the most productive bitches in the history of field trials. Kweezy has 11 titled offspring, 8 from Code Blue, 1 from Pow, and 3 from Willy, that being her most successful litter.


And for you Jacob along the way she was a 3 time National Finalist, 150 All Age points, multiple Double Header winner, and had all age wins with 5 different handlers, Judy, Ed, Martha, John, and Danny.


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## labsforme

Bon, let's not discount Dandy's littermates and the influence Soupy and some of his siblings had. Carrlab Penrod behind Honcho, Wanapum Sheba behind Cody. Air Express with Trieven Thunderhead and Itchin' to Go. Doc and Judy have had far reaching influence on our dogs.
Thank those that had the insight to breed these wonderful litters.
Jeff


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## Jacob Hawkes

EdA said:


> And for you Jacob along the way she was a 3 time National Finalist, 150 All Age points, multiple Double Header winner, and had all age wins with 5 different handlers, Judy, Ed, Martha, John, and Danny.


Thank you for expounding upon the subject. Always appreciate your knowledge & memory. I knew she was a finalist, but didn't know it was 3 times. I didn't know about the wins with 5 handlers (That's flat out incredible.). I didn't know she had that many AA points. She won 2 Double Headers with Miss Judy, right? I'm just going off of what I think I was told a few years ago, & would like to know for certain. Mr. Danny said on multiple occasions that she was the best marker he had ever seen.


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## mjh345

EdA said:


> Giving credit where credit is due do not forget Lottie's sire Tank and his sire Honcho, Holland's bitch side is awesome, 3 of the most productive bitches in the history of field trials. Kweezy has 11 titled offspring, 8 from Code Blue, 1 from Pow, and 3 from Willy, that being her most successful litter.


8 + 3 + 1=12


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## EdA

mjh345 said:


> 8 + 3 + 1=12


iPhone keys are small, 2 from Willy, Tubby has an Amateur win, guess that was wishful typographical error.


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## Breck

Has Holland been bred to a bitch with Dust Devils Desert Duk on the bitch side?


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## Casey A

Breck, looks like this might fit what you're looking for? 

http://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=97036

And then this with her on the very bottom bitch line:

http://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=80555


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## EdA

Breck said:


> Has Holland been bred to a bitch with Dust Devils Desert Duk on the bitch side?



Karma is a littermate to Juice, this was the first litter, Bond, Django, and one or two more were on the Derby List. The second litter 3/29/2015 produced Larry, She Was Perfect Thursday who currently has 50 derby points.

TRUMARC'S HOLLANDAISE X SUNRISE OVER COLETTE BAY (Karma) Produced:

​COLETTA BAY BIT OF GOOD KARMA (BLK)F​​

​COLETTA BAY'S LEE SHORE (BLK)F​​

​DJANGO II (BLK)M​​

​ELMWOODS RUMORS (BLK)F​​

​ROSEBERRY'S COLETTA SUNRISE (BLK)M​​

​RUMBLE ATOP MOUNT HOOD (BLK)M​​

​SAVOIE'S LET THE STORM RAGE ON (BLK)F​​

​STONY BROOK BOLD RULER (BLK)M​​

​TRUMARC'S NEW HOLLAND (BLK)M​​

​WHK'S THE ULTIMATE ADVERSARY (BLK)M​​


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## Breck

Thanks Ed I knew of Garth's Karma breeding. Think I posted was upcoming "sleeper" breeding before it happened. 
I will be watching to see how these puppies turn out. Hopefully some are in good hands. 
While far back in todays puppy pedigrees for some reason I'm convinced having DDDD in there means something.
. 
Juice x Dottie ???


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## EdA

Breck said:


> Thanks Ed I knew of Garth's Karma breeding. Think I posted was upcoming "sleeper" breeding before it happened.
> I will be watching to see how these puppies turn out. Hopefully some are in good hands.
> While far back in todays puppy pedigrees for some reason I'm convinced having DDDD in there means something.
> .
> Juice x Dottie ???


Have not heard that one but she and Holland will have their 9th birthday November 29 so they better hurry.


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## Breck

EdA said:


> Have not heard that one but she and Holland will have their 9th birthday November 29 so they better hurry.


Just a dumb thought. Flip of Holland x Karma
Not sure if dottie is her call name.


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## EdA

Breck said:


> Just a dumb thought. Flip of Holland x Karma
> Not sure if dottie is her call name.


Yep that is her call name


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## Lpgar

*Did not know this.*



Casey A said:


> Breck, looks like this might fit what you're looking for?
> 
> http://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=97036
> 
> And then this with her on the very bottom bitch line:
> 
> http://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=80555



Did not know these 2 litters shared 3 legs of Pedigree. Chopper may have added a bit to the later on the 4th leg. Coletta Bay bit of Good Karma is QAA with a Canadian Am Win and Second as a 3 yr old......Rumble atop Mount Hood was derby list and QAA as a 2 yr old. just to add a bit to the thread (and breeder brag)


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## Marvin S

Back on subject - Interesting thread but, any thread that does not discuss the attributes of River Oaks Corky when 
talking of great dogs probably hasn't been to enough trials. 

I've seen Lean Mac & Dandy run many times in competition, ROC only at the 72 Canadian National. In my five decades 
of hanging around I've seen a lot of great dogs, Code Blue along with others less famous comes to mind. 

Dandy ran before the Interstate Highway system was built, rarely more than 16 trials a year + Nationals . We also had 
a very active local Canadian circuit & a local active sanctioned circuit. There is no doubt she was one of the all time greats. 
I was always on Charly's list for a pup, his choice (influenced by Eddie Bauer) of studs was never to my liking so I never 
got a Dandy pup. 

As for Lean Mac, I saw him run a lot - anyone who watched him (& a significant number of his progeny) do the kind of 
water blinds they did & say they were complete retrievers has much different standards than those prevalent here on 
the West Coast.


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## [email protected]

Hello, found this thread a bit ago. But at uploading am new to this thread. Am a long-time friend of Ray Stevenson, breeder of Lean Mac. Also have met Jock, was there when he came by to pick Lean Mac out of the litter, a few times after that at Ray's and at a few trials, and visited him in the hospital in Vernon. Am going to try to upload some videos made (don't shoot me) a year ago - October 8, 2017 - Ray telling Lean Mac stories - probably some never heard before. We found this thread a year ago so that brought on the idea of the videos. Tomorrow October 25 is Ray's birthday so am uploading these as a birthday present to him and for all to enjoy. First upload is taking some time but hang in there, will sort it out.


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