# 2014 National Retriever Championship



## Retriever News

Welcome to the 2014 National Retriever Championship held in Vicksburg, Mississippi
November 16-22, 2014 …

Be sure to come and check out the Retriever News Blog each day for up to the minute coverage. Post your comments on the blog and show your support for your favorite dog/handler teams.

Send us your event and training photos and we will post them on the Blog! You can Email: [email protected] or upload them to our Facebook Page, where you will also find updates and important community posts. Best of Luck to everyone competing!


----------



## Russ

Any scratches?


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## Mark Littlejohn

#89 Pink.

See: http://2014nrccallbacks.theretrievernews.com/ViewCallbacks.aspx?Event=2014NRC


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## dckdwg82

Did something happen to Slider, He scratched the last 3 trials and I dont see him on the running order either?


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## mjcrow

injury late summer tore cruciate 
had surgery--rehabbing


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## Dustin D

Is there a Blog/Twitter/Facebook spot where we can keep up?


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## Barry Brandt

http://2014nrcblog.theretrievernews.com/


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## FOM

Dustin D said:


> Is there a Blog/Twitter/Facebook spot where we can keep up?


There is also an unofficial FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/303588989805063/


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## Bill McKnight

Delighted to learn Bob Crab and Windy had a nice first and second series. Bob is among the nicest people I have met...in or out if the sport.

The other Bill


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## Doug Main

There sure isn't much chatter about the National!

They may be breaking ice if it were at Busch this year.


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## Mike Berube

In looking at the blog pics from the first test, it appears that there was at least one decoy (mallard drake?), in the field. Was I seeing things?

May sound like a stupid question, but in the second series if a handler opted to select out the retired gun first, at what point would the guns retire?

Thanks


----------



## Kyle Garris

Ammo is out already?


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## Dustin D

Anyone care to translate the updates? lol



> Flyer: Nice.
> Flyer: Smack a live one!
> Flyer: SMACK!
> Flyer: Drilled it … still flapping.
> Flyer: Straight to the bird.


I thought at first it was official scoring lol


----------



## bakbay

Mike Berube said:


> In looking at the blog pics from the first test, it appears that there was at least one decoy (mallard drake?), in the field. Was I seeing things?
> 
> May sound like a stupid question, but in the second series if a handler opted to select out the retired gun first, at what point would the guns retire?
> 
> Thanks


From the test description: "...The handler has been instructed to watch the birds go down, then the dog turns to the right and runs the blind first while the flyer gunners stand out and the second bird retires." In other words, the gunner is already retired (while the blind is being run), before the dog picks up either mark.


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## Doug Main

Mike Berube said:


> In looking at the blog pics from the first test, it appears that there was at least one decoy (mallard drake?), in the field. Was I seeing things?
> 
> May sound like a stupid question, but in the second series if a handler opted to select out the retired gun first, at what point would the guns retire?
> 
> Thanks


No you are correct. There were decoys in the field in the 1st & 2nd series. 

I'm guessing the description was a little off and the retired guns were really instructed to retire when the dog leaves the line for the 1st bird (no matter which one), and not just when the dog was sent for the flier. The person that wrote the test description just assumed everyone would send for the flier first. ;-)


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## Doug Main

Kyle Garris said:


> Ammo is out already?


Yep. No matter how good they are, they're still just dogs.


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## Mike Berube

bakbay said:


> From the test description: "...The handler has been instructed to watch the birds go down, then the dog turns to the right and runs the blind first while the flyer gunners stand out and the second bird retires." In other words, the gunner is already retired (while the blind is being run), before the dog picks up either mark.


I was referring to the second test.


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## Mary Lynn Metras

Kyle Garris said:


> Ammo is out already?


 Just the way it goes. Too bad.


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## Dustin D

What's Ammo's Reg. name?


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## Mark Littlejohn

Doug Main said:


> I'm guessing the description was a little off and the retired guns were really instructed to retire when the dog leaves the line for the 1st bird (no matter which one), and not just when the dog was sent for the flier. The person that wrote the test description just assumed everyone would send for the flier first. ;-)


Re-read Bruce's post. Watch the marks, run the blind (2nd series), then pick up marks.


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## Cowtown

Dustin D said:


> What's Ammo's Reg. name?


FC-AFC-CNAFC-CFC Upon the Wings of an Answered Prayer (Ammo)


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## Doug Main

Mark Littlejohn said:


> Re-read Bruce's post. Watch the marks, run the blind (2nd series), then pick up marks.


I didn't respond to Bruce. . . . I responded to Mike's question. I knew what he meant. 

It is a little confusing at a national. Because they use count series different than normal. Usually, Series are separated by callbacks and a series may contain multiple tests. However, they count each test as a series at a national mostly because of time constraints in order to get 10 "series" in during the week.


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## Chad Baker

I know that feeling Bill Petrovish has today! Gman was high point open dog in 08, it was our first national open down in TX! He had been perfect in pre-national training Lardy said he looked like Lottie and Babe in pre national training. We went out in the first series! That was a long drive home!! Nothing will humble you any faster!
Chad


----------



## MikeBoley

Most field trials if you do a Texas double it is considered two series. Blind is one series and marks are another. At least that is the norm. No rules say a weekend trial is only 4 series.


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## Doug Main

MikeBoley said:


> Most field trials if you do a Texas double it is considered two series. Blind is one series and marks are another. At least that is the norm. No rules say a weekend trial is only 4 series.


Who the heck knows how you do things in Texas. 

FYI From the FT rule book Standard Procedure:



> 3. The Judges, with due regard t o the
> recommendations of the Field Trial Committee, shall
> determine the tests to be given in each series — and
> shall try to give all dogs approximately similar tests in
> the same series.
> 
> 4. At the end of the first series, and every series
> thereafter, the Judges will call back all dogs which they
> wish to try further, and will cause them to be run in
> additional series until the stake is decided.


Pretty clear that Series are separated by call-backs; and a series may contain multiple tests. i.e. double blind, blind and marks, etc.


----------



## TBell

Chad Baker said:


> I know that feeling Bill Petrovish has today! Gman was high point open dog in 08, it was our first national open down in TX! He had been perfect in pre-national training Lardy said he looked like Lottie and Babe in pre national training. We went out in the first series! That was a long drive home!! Nothing will humble you any faster!
> Chad


With such high hopes on super talented dogs, it most certainly must be a heartbreaker. No doubt conditions were tough and a missed mark can cost dearly. Yes long drive home, but those blue ribbons riding in the cab will surely help!


----------



## John Gassner

Mike Berube said:


> In looking at the blog pics from the first test, it appears that there was at least one decoy (mallard drake?), in the field. Was I seeing things?
> 
> May sound like a stupid question, but in the second series if a handler opted to select out the retired gun first, at what point would the guns retire?
> 
> Thanks



The flyer gunners retired after shooting their bird. The right hand (first bird shot) station did not retire until after the dog was returning with the bird from the blind. No gunners visible when running marks.


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## Mike Berube

John Gassner said:


> The flyer gunners retired after shooting their bird. The right hand (first bird shot) station did not retire until after the dog was returning with the bird from the blind. No gunners visible when running marks.


Sorry for the confusion my post caused. My question was in reference to the THIRD test (series), the water triple, which I mistakingly called the second series. There was no blind in this series.

My question was if a handler "no'd" the dog off the go bird and selected either of retired birds, when would the judge signal for the stations to retire? Would it matter...that the stations were retiring as the dog was enroute? 

Thanks


----------



## LESTER LANGLEY

On the first/second series combo we (flier guns) retired as soon as the dog picked up the blind I'm not sure when the dead bird retired. We couldnt see them from our station. On the 3rd series the retired guns were instructed to retire when the handler sent for their first bird.


----------



## John Gassner

Mike Berube said:


> Sorry for the confusion my post caused. My question was in reference to the THIRD test (series), the water triple, which I mistakingly called the second series. There was no blind in this series.
> 
> My question was if a handler "no'd" the dog off the go bird and selected either of retired birds, when would the judge signal for the stations to retire? Would it matter...that the stations were retiring as the dog was enroute?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


You can select and it would be fine even with the gunners retiring. Used to see it done more often.


----------



## David Bailey

I want a black cap from the trial. Is there anywhere I can order one without going to Mississippi. I Have been collecting the hats for a few years but couldn't make it this year.


----------



## TBell

John Gassner said:


> The flyer gunners retired after shooting their bird. The right hand (first bird shot) station did not retire until after the dog was returning with the bird from the blind. No gunners visible when running marks.


So basically series 1&2 could better be described as a double poison bird blind with two retired diversions that dogs must pick up....correct?


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## Margo Ellis

Come on Holland and POW Those are the boys I am waving my pompom for!


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## John Gassner

Yes, but they didn't retire until after the blind was picked up.


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## Cowtown

Could someone point me to the scoring by series where it shows the dogs with handles? 

I can't recall where that is??

Thx in advance!


----------



## BonMallari

Cowtown said:


> Could someone point me to the scoring by series where it shows the dogs with handles?
> 
> I can't recall where that is??
> 
> Thx in advance!


Click on the Callbacks link on the National Blog page


looks like the judges decided to make this land blind a real POISON bird as compared to the 1st series...81 dogs and its almost 1pm CST ...any guess on how many dogs they can get done with about 3.75 hours of light left ?


----------



## Chad Baker

long break on the blog updates anyone there know whats up?


----------



## Doug Main

Chad Baker said:


> long break on the blog updates anyone there know whats up?


Wondering the same thing!


----------



## Cowtown

BonMallari said:


> Click on the Callbacks link on the National Blog page
> 
> 
> looks like the judges decided to make this land blind a real POISON bird as compared to the 1st series...81 dogs and its almost 1pm CST ...any guess on how many dogs they can get done with about 3.75 hours of light left ?


Thank you sir!


----------



## GaryJ

Test 4 looks like it is taking no prisoners based on the blog. 

And then #9 FC Salty Paws Hammerin Hank runs the approx. 385 yd blind to discover No Bird down. 

I really enjoy the blog and am grateful for those who are keeping it up.


----------



## polmaise

GaryJ said:


> Test 4 looks like it is taking no prisoners based on the blog.
> 
> And then #9 FC Salty Paws Hammerin Hank runs the approx. 385 yd blind to discover No Bird down.
> 
> I really enjoy the blog and am grateful for those who are keeping it up.


Agreed! Gary. and for us over the pond it's very grateful


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras

GaryJ said:


> Test 4 looks like it is taking no prisoners based on the blog.
> 
> And then #9 FC Salty Paws Hammerin Hank runs the approx. 385 yd blind to discover No Bird down.
> 
> I really enjoy the blog and am grateful for those who are keeping it up.


Same really happy there is the blog. Miss the pics of the dogs this year. Wonder if the cold has something to do w/ everything. Looks like and sounds like tough blind!!!!


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## Twin Willows Labs

GaryJ said:


> Test 4 looks like it is taking no prisoners based on the blog.
> 
> And then #9 FC Salty Paws Hammerin Hank runs the approx. 385 yd blind to discover No Bird down.
> 
> I really enjoy the blog and am grateful for those who are keeping it up.


What is the protocol for this? How is it scored and what will the judges do about this dog?


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## Jay Dufour

Whistle check ? Two test dogs reported hard to hear whistles.


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## krakadawn

Have the blind planter come out and put a bird on designated spot and allow dog to pick it up to be brought in. Score the dog for the work to the blind. If there was some looseness at the blind because there was no bird, I would ignore that. Not the first time this has happened.


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## Mike Berube

*Summary by Dog?*

Would it be possible to get a blog summary by dog? I think it would be much easier to follow and generate more interest if each dog had a blog summary, by series. 

Meaning, if I clicked on any dog in either the Running order or Callbacks, their blog history, by series would be available.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks


----------



## DoubleHaul

Mike Berube said:


> Would it be possible to get a blog summary by dog? I think it would be much easier to follow and generate more interest if each dog had a blog summary, by series.
> 
> Meaning, if I clicked on any dog in either the Running order or Callbacks, their blog history, by series would be available.
> 
> Any thoughts on that?
> 
> Thanks


Technically easy--just use tags for each dog. In practice, though, they are always behind. Probably not too hard if they planned to do it before hand (and don't forget with all that is going on) say for next year.


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## Mike Berube

*Handler Change?*

Today's blog stated "handler change", for dog #63. I don't think I've ever seen this before in a National blog.

What, if any, are the policies, and/or procedures for a handler change, and would there be any differences between weekend trials and a National regrading handler change? 

Thanks


----------



## JusticeDog

Mike Berube said:


> Today's blog stated "handler change", for dog #63. I don't think I've ever seen this before in a National blog.
> 
> What, if any, are the policies, and/or procedures for a handler change, and would there be any differences between weekend trials and a National regrading handler change?
> 
> Thanks


NO rule against it.


----------



## BonMallari

Mike Berube said:


> Today's blog stated "handler change", for dog #63. I don't think I've ever seen this before in a National blog.
> 
> What, if any, are the policies, and/or procedures for a handler change, and would there be any differences between weekend trials and a National regrading handler change?
> 
> Thanks



I am sure that John Stracka decided that Freeway's chances at continuing were better with Pro Paul Sletten at the helm


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## Mike Berube

BonMallari said:


> I am sure that John Stracka decided that Freeway's chances at continuing were better with Pro Paul Sletten at the helm


In no way am I questioning motive...just curious if a handler change has to be "reported"?...to the marshall?..anyone?

Thanks


----------



## BonMallari

Mike Berube said:


> In no way am I questioning motive...just curious if a handler change has to be "reported"?...to the marshall?..anyone?
> 
> Thanks


its customary to let the marshall know just so they arent expecting someone else in the holding blind,it is also customary to let the judges know what number you are when you step to the line...but in reality they are judging the dog not the handler....the only time it might come under scrutiny is if it were an Amateur or an Owner Handler stake


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## Robert E

Roger that whistle check post Jay


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## Ted Shih

I am told that John has flu like symptoms


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## Gawthorpe

When you need to be at the top of your game no reason to risk the flu interfering with a great dog like Freeway. Paul has had some success before on these grounds....


----------



## EdA

Mike Berube said:


> Today's blog stated "handler change", for dog #63. I don't think I've ever seen this before in a National blog.
> 
> What, if any, are the policies, and/or procedures for a handler change, and would there be any differences between weekend trials and a National regrading handler change?
> 
> Thanks


One need only look at the 2012 NRC when Danny Farmer became NAFC Tubb's handler for the 9th and 10th series when the Russells departed on a long prearranged cruise.


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## Philip Carson

Looks like a hearing test


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## Raymond Little

EdA said:


> One need only look at the 2012 NRC when Danny Farmer became NAFC Tubb's handler for the 9th and 10th series when the Russells departed on a long prearranged cruise.


Heck of a closer to send in&#55357;&#56836;


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## BonMallari

72 dogs to the 5th series....Pow and Guide among the dogs that got dropped


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## Mary Lynn Metras

BonMallari said:


> 72 dogs to the 5th series....Pow and Guide among the dogs that got dropped


Watch for Connie and Ready went through w/ a good run! Good luck to all!


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## BonMallari

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Watch for Connie and Ready went through w/ a good run! Good luck to all!



they certainly did..I have them on my Pick Em list...lost Ammo, Guide and Deets already


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## cchristopher

Why is there not a callbacks link on the Retriever news coverage. I like just seeing which dogs are still in without having to go through the blog. Am I missing the callbacks link or did they not put one on there this year. Thanks


----------



## BonMallari

cchristopher said:


> Why is there not a callbacks link on the Retriever news coverage. I like just seeing which dogs are still in without having to go through the blog. Am I missing the callbacks link or did they not put one on there this year. Thanks


Top left hand corner in GREEN- Retriever Callbacks


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## truka

cchristopher said:


> Why is there not a callbacks link on the Retriever news coverage. I like just seeing which dogs are still in without having to go through the blog. Am I missing the callbacks link or did they not put one on there this year. Thanks


If you're viewing the mobile version of the blog, the link doesn't appear. Maybe you can see the Callbacks from this link:
http://2014nrccallbacks.theretrievernews.com/ViewCallbacks.aspx?Event=2014NRC

-trudie


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## cchristopher

Thanks for the link. It doesn't show up on my iPhone. Thanks again for the link


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## Twin Willows Labs

Newbie question:

I see that several of Lardy's dogs are there. Obviously Ray Voigt is handling for him, (and possibly others, I don't know this). Why is he not handling during the premier event in the sport?


----------



## Raymond Little

Twin Willows Labs said:


> Newbie question:
> 
> I see that several of Lardy's dogs are there. Obviously Ray Voigt is handling for him, (and possibly others, I don't know this). Why is he not handling during the premier event in the sport?


Been there done that, RV is more than capable, RV put the points on the dogs he is handling and should be able to drive them at the National, ML's reputation doesn't need any added boost.


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## Peter Balzer

It seems to be a high number of No Birds in this quad. Is it the bird throwers, conditions, or some other factor that is contributing to this? I think I saw 1 dog had 2 No Birds in a row. . . . bad luck!


----------



## laker

I'm hoping Ryan and Ali make a good run at a title.


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## blake_mhoona

Peter Balzer said:


> It seems to be a high number of No Birds in this quad. Is it the bird throwers, conditions, or some other factor that is contributing to this? I think I saw 1 dog had 2 No Birds in a row. . . . bad luck!


i'm guessing wind was a big factor. that and anytime you throw out of order flier in the mix it can always complicate things.


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## Mary Lynn Metras

Numbers are out of order for dogs. The no birds. Are they also skipping numbers???78 Connie S did not run yet???


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## Wade Thurman

blake_mhoona said:


> i'm guessing wind was a big factor. that and anytime you throw out of order flier in the mix it can always complicate things.


why is that? The out of order flyer part.


----------



## 3blackdogs

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Numbers are out of order for dogs. The no birds. Are they also skipping numbers???78 Connie S did not run yet???


_Update: The blog has now been corrected with the proper team. Thanks to the RN crew for all the time and effort they put in._

There's an error in the blog: They have #77 Jewel running immediately after a no-bird. Which wasn't the case. That was actually a description of #78, Connie and her dog.


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## Jay Dufour

Wade said:


> why is that? The out of order flyer part.


Gunners throw and shoot bird goes down , second guns shoot and throw as first gunners shoot again and maybe again. Third mark shot and thrown, ect.


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## Mary Lynn Metras

3blackdogs said:


> There's an error in the blog: They have #77 Jewel running immediately after a no-bird. Which wasn't the case. That was actually a description of #78, Connie and her dog.


It Has been corrected and Connie inserted. I wrote asking why. Thanks to the bloggers.


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## Wade Thurman

Jay Dufour said:


> Gunners throw and shoot bird goes down , second guns shoot and throw as first gunners shoot again and maybe again. Third mark shot and thrown, ect.


Ya but the next station should not be shooting until the judges call for their gun. Out of order or not, it should not have an affect on it being a no bird.


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## Wade Thurman

BonMallari said:


> they certainly did..I have them on my Pick Em list...lost Ammo, Guide and Deets already


THANK YOU Bon for picking him again. I appreciate the gesture!!!!


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## blake_mhoona

Wade said:


> Ya but the next station should not be shooting until the judges call for their gun. Out of order or not, it should not have an affect on it being a no bird.


Not if there is a cripple. Flyer Station might not notice duck/pheasant walking or flapping till the next station has gone off


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## Dustin D

Jay Dufour said:


> Gunners throw and shoot bird goes down ,
> second guns shoot and throw as first gunners shoot again and maybe again. T
> hird mark shot and thrown, ect.


Hey Jay! I hunted over a white dog named JACK this weekend. Remember him?
I told Mr Curt he needs some handler training  Jack will make it though lol


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## Wade Thurman

blake_mhoona said:


> Not if there is a cripple. Flyer Station might not notice duck/pheasant walking or flapping till the next station has gone off


Then that would be on the judges. Don't call for the guns if you are not sure the bird is dead.

The bird falls where it is suppose to or it doesn't. The bird is either dead or it isn't.

If you don't like what you see it's a no bird. If you like what you see call for the next gun and move forward. 

The reason I hear nearly 100% of the time for not shooting the out of order flyer, if you have a bad dead bird throw after the flyer you have now wasted a flyer for the club, which cost them money. Because it is shot "out of order" should have no bearing in the result of a no bird.


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## Jay Dufour

blake_mhoona said:


> Not if there is a cripple. Flyer Station might not notice duck/pheasant walking or flapping till the next station has gone off


Yup,That is what I was referring to.The judge waving the towel does so for bird two as the flier gunner swats a walker or runner the judge doesnt see.


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## BonMallari

am I the only one who looks at the pictures of the gallery without any captions and wonder, "..who am I looking at or why should I care? " ...but they take the time to caption a fallen tree from last year's tornado...looking at a picture of a bunch of silver haired dudes in camping chairs does not inspire me to read the blog....

either show me some pictures of dogs picking up birds action shots...gosh I miss all the pics of the handlers and their dogs....some more than others


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## HarryWilliams

A picture or three of dog and handler coming to and/or off of the line would be much appreciated. Harry


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## Mary Lynn Metras

BonMallari said:


> am I the only one who looks at the pictures of the gallery without any captions and wonder, "..who am I looking at or why should I care? " ...but they take the time to caption a fallen tree from last year's tornado...looking at a picture of a bunch of silver haired dudes in camping chairs does not inspire me to read the blog....
> 
> either show me some pictures of dogs picking up birds action shots...gosh I miss all the pics of the handlers and their dogs....some more than others


Yes I miss the pics and captions Help me know who is who?? Maybe the weather is the issue and time.
.


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## FOM

They are short handed, only have two doing the blog, the third person backed out....so they are trying to keep up with dog work descriptions...the professional pictures can be found here: http://upclosephoto.com/gallery?g2_itemId=464400&g2_page=1


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## DoubleHaul

BonMallari said:


> am I the only one who looks at the pictures of the gallery without any captions and wonder, "..who am I looking at or why should I care? " ...but they take the time to caption a fallen tree from last year's tornado...looking at a picture of a bunch of silver haired dudes in camping chairs does not inspire me to read the blog....
> 
> either show me some pictures of dogs picking up birds action shots...gosh I miss all the pics of the handlers and their dogs....some more than others


Bon,

If you can't identify all the old codgers in folding chairs, think how the rest of us feel  I did identify a friend looking very frozen yesterday, though


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## Gene

I was able to attend the trial all day today. Beautiful day. Was A Marshall next to the line this afternoon and that was a lot of fun. Watching the dogs sitting in a chair near the judges. Nice to see some dogs and handlers I've only heard of from different parts of the Country. Saw some really nice work and a few dogs being dogs. The grounds are very good and plenty of big water. Rolling hill terrain. The judges eat like kings. Whole lobster at lunch! The trial seems to be going very smoothly. Quick transition from one series to the next and quick re-birds and gun changes. Wish I could go back tomorrow but can't. Weather is warming up the next couple days. We were in low 20's early this week and will be in 70's this weekend.


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## Mary Lynn Metras

Gene said:


> I was able to attend the trial all day today. Beautiful day. Was A Marshall next to the line this afternoon and that was a lot of fun. Watching the dogs sitting in a chair near the judges. Nice to see some dogs and handlers I've only heard of from different parts of the Country. Saw some really nice work and a few dogs being dogs. The grounds are very good and plenty of big water. Rolling hill terrain. The judges eat like kings. Whole lobster at lunch! The trial seems to be going very smoothly. Quick transition from one series to the next and quick re-birds and gun changes. Wish I could go back tomorrow but can't. Weather is warming up the next couple days. We were in low 20's early this week and will be in 70's this weekend.


What a nice opportunity!


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## TroyFeeken

Kind of a pickle that they might be in. 4 1/2 series left in only a couple of days with probably half of the dogs left after 6 depending how deep the cuts will be.


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## EdA

TroyFeeken said:


> Kind of a pickle that they might be in. 4 1/2 series left in only a couple of days with probably half of the dogs left after 6 depending how deep the cuts will be.


Yep, probably some long faces after callbacks to 7


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## TroyFeeken

Based off the blog and the grain of salt in which that can be taken with, there have been a fair number of big hunts, a couple recent handles that were going to be dogs going back to old falls and so on. A cut of 20 dogs probably wouldn't be unheard of by now.


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## EdA

TroyFeeken said:


> Based off the blog and the grain of salt in which that can be taken with, there have been a fair number of big hunts, a couple recent handles that were going to be dogs going back to old falls and so on. A cut of 20 dogs probably wouldn't be unheard of by now.


I bet it's more than 20


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## Ted Shih

EdA said:


> I bet it's more than 20



Me too. They have been pretty generous with callbacks. There is probably lots of cumulative damage. They have 3 series to do in 1.5 days. They need to get to fighting weight.


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## EdA

Ted Shih said:


> Me too. They have been pretty generous with callbacks. There is probably lots of cumulative damage. They have 3 series to do in 1.5 days. They need to get to fighting weight.


They have 4 series 2 of which will be a quickie double blind


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## Ted Shih

EdA said:


> They have 4 series 2 of which will be a quickie double blind



Ouch. Even more reason to get to fighting weight. Bird Boy Land blind, with skinny water blind tight to Bird Boy?


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## TroyFeeken

I'm wondering if they don't cut at least 30 after this series if they even have enough time to run a double blind in the next series. Ball buster of a water blind without much of any water involved with it, then come back with a triple and land blind combined series before the 10th.


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## EdA

And/or a Sunday finish?


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## Vinny Dalena

TroyFeeken said:


> Based off the blog and the grain of salt in which that can be taken with, there have been a fair number of big hunts, a couple recent handles that were going to be dogs going back to old falls and so on. A cut of 20 dogs probably wouldn't be unheard of by now.


Newbie here, just looking for some info based on comments from both you, Ted S. and EdA. There are more than a few with no handles, (to this point), and there may be cumulative damage with those and with the dogs that where handled. With all the variables throw in.Given it's time to get the #'s down to fighting weight Is it reasonable to assume those that have been handled will be dropped.


----------



## mjolnir

You guys are starting to sound like sports analysts that want to give the result of the game before it is played. I would hate to see national callbacks decided on a a skinny water blind with an impossible entry. I would think that the judges are looking for the best of the best. Lets see some courage tests that these dogs deserve. Just my opinion.


----------



## TroyFeeken

Depends how dirty of a handle and if they have had any hunts on other birds. Remember, this trial is looking for the best of the best of the best. A dog that hunts more than a couple of birds, ie, running around looking for a bird for more than a couple loops, probably isn't going to win the trophy. If the dogs has had a couple small hunts and a handle, they might still be playing but if any of those hunts were big, they're going to be gone.


----------



## EdA

Vinny Dalena said:


> Newbie here, just looking for some info based on comments from both you, Ted S. and EdA. There are more than a few with no handles, (to this point), and there may be cumulative damage with those and with the dogs that where handled. With all the variables throw in.Given it's time to get the #'s down to fighting weight Is it reasonable to assume those that have been handled will be dropped.


Don't be surprised if most, if not all, the handles will be dropped as well as some non handles with a couple of significant hunts.


----------



## Ted Shih

mjolnir said:


> I would hate to see national callbacks decided on a a skinny water blind with an impossible entry. I would think that the judges are looking for the best of the best. Lets see some courage tests that these dogs deserve. Just my opinion.



Peter

First, why would the entry be "impossible"? Dogs do it in All Age Stakes every weekend. 
Second, why isn't the best of the best a dog that can not only run marks, but blinds 
Third, hard to do big "courage"tests with 60 dogs, 4 series and 1.5 days remaining. If you want big "courage" tests in 9 and 10, you need manageable numbers.


----------



## EdA

45 dogs back


----------



## TroyFeeken

19 dropped is all. Going to be a tough road to hoe unless they really kick some but in the 7th.


----------



## Peter Balzer

EdA said:


> Don't be surprised if most, if not all, the handles will be dropped as well as some non handles with a couple of significant hunts.


Well looks like you and the judges had the same opinion. All dogs with a handle in the 6th were dropped except #32 Tex. Also pretty darn close on the guess of 20 dogs dropped (19 actual). Pulling for Holland and Dottie now.


----------



## Mike Berube

What I wouldn't give to watch a live stream of these last series.


----------



## mjolnir

Ted,

45 dogs back with 4 tests to go. That seems like a reasonable task with the quality of judges and the grounds and workers that are available. Don't want to argue, the point that I was trying to make is lets not make the water entry the end and be all. Sorry for the use of the word "impossible". With the quality of this field and handlers - nothing is impossible.


----------



## Mark Littlejohn

Mike Berube said:


> What I wouldn't give to watch a live stream of these last series.


What _WOULD _you give to watch the last 1.5 days?
PM me. I'm dead serious.


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras

Mark Littlejohn said:


> What _WOULD _you give to watch the last 1.5 days?
> PM me. I'm dead serious.


I would love to be there but the miles between myself and the trial and not to mention the freezing rain that is going to grace us tomorrow. The trial should be really exciting. Thank goodness for the blog.


----------



## EdA

mjolnir said:


> Ted,
> 
> 45 dogs back with 4 tests to go. That seems like a reasonable task with the quality of judges and the grounds and workers that are available. Don't want to argue, the point that I was trying to make is lets not make the water entry the end and be all. Sorry for the use of the word "impossible". With the quality of this field and handlers - nothing is impossible.


4 series with 45 dogs in 14 hours sounds like a big hill to climb when traditionally 2 of the 4 tests have been big marking tests, 1 land and 1 water.


----------



## Chad Baker

How tight will PB blind be? Or the keyhole?


----------



## Mark Littlejohn

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> I would love to be there but the miles between myself and the trial and not to mention the freezing rain that is going to grace us tomorrow. The trial should be really exciting. Thank goodness for the blog.


I should have been clearer and said: "_Watch it live online?_"


----------



## Chad Baker

The blog is behind whats going on?
Im with ED 14hrs and 4 series some stuff is going to get super hard in a hurry!


----------



## Peter Balzer

Going to put a little math behind this
Callbacks to 7th Series 
2014 - 45 of 98 dogs or 46%
2013 - 43 of 92 dogs or 47%
2012 - 44 of 105 dogs or 42%
2011 - 37 of 90 dogs or 41%
2010 - 28 of 97 dogs or 29%
2009 - 34 of 92 dogs or 37%

7th series - A combo series with a double mark and a land and a water blind.


----------



## Doug Main

Peter Balzer said:


> Going to put a little math behind this
> Callbacks to 7th Series
> 2014 - 45 of 98 dogs or 46%
> 2013 - 43 of 92 dogs or 47%
> 2012 - 44 of 105 dogs or 42%
> 2011 - 37 of 90 dogs or 41%
> 2010 - 28 of 97 dogs or 29%
> 2009 - 34 of 92 dogs or 37%
> 
> 7th series - A combo series with a double mark and a land and a water blind.


How many where started after noon on Friday?


----------



## Breck

Think one of 5 dogs left can win???


----------



## Chad Baker

from the pictures that looks like a awesome test!
That would be fun to run in my mind! Time will tell but the nut cutting has began I think!
Chad


----------



## Peter Balzer

Doug Main said:


> How many where started after noon on Friday?


Good point. 

7th Series Call backs were announced on Fri at 10 am for 2013(43 dogs) and Fri at 8 am in 2012(44 dogs) compared to 11:45 am in 2014 (45 dogs). The format changed on the blog previous to that and the previous years were less dogs so less statisically important.


----------



## Chad Baker

if they run out of time they could call this the 7,8,an9th series. Bring 20 to 10th? What are you guys thinking? Could that happen?


----------



## EdA

Chad Baker said:


> if they run out of time they could call this the 7,8,an9th series. Bring 20 to 10th? What are you guys thinking? Could that happen?


The word on the street is that it is 7,8,&9


----------



## BonMallari

EdA said:


> The word on the street is that it is 7,8,&9


So would that mean a HUGE cut down to 12-15 dogs for the 10th series Quad


----------



## Doug Main

Am I seeing this right? The water blind is almost where the holding blind for the long RG in the 6th series. And the marks are on either side of the short retired gun from the 6th series?


----------



## Chad Baker

Bon I would think 20 to do a quad with three flyers that is a huge almost impossible test. Let the cards fall where they do! Sitting here in front of the computer in no way judging but think they still have lots of dogs with very similar work by reading the blog(which will get you a cup of coffee with a dollar). They need a awesome marking test but one where you could handle to be a finalist! Seems to me the committee likes to see more larger numbers of finalists than in nationals from years ago.


----------



## RetrieversONLINE

I just superimposed the 6th series marks on top of the 7-8-9. Used the two google maps. Unbelievable interaction-7 birds in 45 degrees including fliers in the middle!! and some lines almost the same!

Just like training at home on the same grounds over and over!!!! HAH!


----------



## Doug Main

RetrieversONLINE said:


> I just superimposed the 6th series marks on top of the 7-8-9. Used the two google maps. Unbelievable interaction-7 birds in 45 degrees including fliers in the middle!! and some lines almost the same!
> 
> Just like training at home on the same grounds over and over!!!! HAH!


I just did the same thing. Except I was thinking ICK instead of HAH!


----------



## Tim West

Yes, according to the blog, at least one dog has hunting an old fall from the previous series when going for the Poison bird. He worked out of it.


----------



## Mark Littlejohn

Back to back National series.


----------



## BonMallari

am I reading the selection correct ? are they picking up the birds : land blind >flyer>water blind>land mark


----------



## mjh345

mark littlejohn said:


> View attachment 20764
> 
> back to back national series.


wow!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Doug Main

BonMallari said:


> am I reading the selection correct ? are they picking up the birds : land blind >flyer>water blind>land mark


That's correct. The handler has the choice on the order of the marks. But look at the relation of the marks to the 6th series, and tell me which order you as a handler would select attempt to pick them up?


----------



## Dustin D

*



75. FC-AFC Trumarc’s Hollandaise, “Holland”, LM, Danny Farmer

Click to expand...

*


> Land Blind – 3 whistles up close; 1 more on to the water; 1 in the water; 3 down the shore to the bird.
> 
> Flyer – Got it.
> 
> Water Blind – 3 whistles to get to the water; 7 to cross a small piece of water;
> multiple whistles were used as the handler worked hard to get the dog in the correct position off the point.
> It was a difficult job.
> 
> Dead Right Bird – Out to the fall area from this morning, 1 loop and out to the bird.


Does this put the brother of the 2013 NFC out?


----------



## Bridget Bodine

Dustin D said:


> *
> 
> Does this put the brother of the 2013 NFC out?*


*
Not out til the judges say your out. He still has no handles on marks. Positive thinking for Dr Ed!!*


----------



## Bridget Bodine

RetrieversONLINE said:


> I just superimposed the 6th series marks on top of the 7-8-9. Used the two google maps. Unbelievable interaction-7 birds in 45 degrees including fliers in the middle!! and some lines almost the same!
> 
> Just like training at home on the same grounds over and over!!!! HAH!


 Care to post it Dennis, for us less technology literates...?


----------



## Dustin D

Bridget Bodine said:


> Not out til the judges say your out.
> He still has no handles on marks. Positive thinking for Dr Ed!!


Has there been a Brother/Sister NFC? or more than one NFC from the same litter?


----------



## RetrieversONLINE

Bridget Bodine said:


> Care to post it Dennis, for us less technology literates...?


I had it all done and decided to put some labels on it and it crashed-gone-sorry

Have a look at the jpegs in #127 and compare the trees and it is easy to visualize-


----------



## BonMallari

Dustin D said:


> Has there been a Brother/Sister NFC? or more than one NFC from the same litter?



just off the top of my head I do know that NAFC FC Westwind Jemima Super cake (LF) with Eva J Proby
and her brother NFC AFC Supernova Chief (LF)..full littermates

as for NFC....NFC NAFC CNFC Wanapum Darts Dandy and her sister CNFC Wanapum Darts Garbo


----------



## BonMallari

Doug Main said:


> That's correct. The handler has the choice on the order of the marks. But look at the relation of the marks to the 6th series, *and tell me which order you as a handler would select attempt to pick them up*?


since we dont subscribe to primary or ideal selection like others, I would be inclined to go LB>flyer>rt mark>WB....a lot would depend on what the dog is telling me they like..if the dog is looking over their shoulder while returning from the flyer they are telling me that they know where the mark is and wants to pick that bird up...How you train would determine how you pick these birds up


----------



## Doug Main

BonMallari said:


> since we dont subscribe to primary or ideal selection like others, I would be inclined to go LB>flyer>rt mark>WB....a lot would depend on what the dog is telling me they like..if the dog is looking over their shoulder while returning from the flyer they are telling me that they know where the mark is and wants to pick that bird up...How you train would determine how you pick these birds up


You've got to do the WB after one of the marks.

In view of the proximity of the old falls from 6th series and the land blind to the flier, I don't know that I would leave it for last, no matter how I trained.


----------



## Brandon Bromley

Dustin D said:


> Has there been a Brother/Sister NFC? or more than one NFC from the same litter?


Here's a few I found.

NAFC FC Dude’s Double or Nothin’ X NFC AFC Euroclydon
>NFC AFC Dynamite Duke IV
>NFC AFC Orion’s Sky

Super Powder QAA X Black Bunny of Lakewood
>NFC Westwind Supernova Chief
>NAFC FC CFC CAFC Westwind Jemima Super Cake

CNAFC CFC FC AFC Aces High III X NFC AFC CFC CAFC Yankee Independence
>CNAFC FC Free Trade
>CNFC CAFC Cal Me Mister Independence

NFC 2XNAFC Super Chief X Can Dual CH Dart of Netley Creek
>NFC NAFC CNFC Wanapum Dart’s Dandy
>CNFC Wanapum Darts Garbo

2XNAFC 2XCNAFC FC Ebonstar Lean Mac X CFC CAFC Coldcreek’s Kala to Go
>CNFC CNAFC FC AFC Prairiemarsh Madness
>CNFC CAFC FC AFC TNT’s Mr Peabody Prairiemarsh


----------



## RetrieversONLINE

Brandon Bromley said:


> Here's a few I found.
> 
> NAFC FC Dude’s Double or Nothin’ X NFC AFC Euroclydon
> >NFC AFC Dynamite Duke IV
> >NFC AFC Orion’s Sky
> 
> Super Powder QAA X Black Bunny of Lakewood
> >NFC Westwind Supernova Chief
> >NAFC FC CFC CAFC Westwind Jemima Super Cake
> 
> CNAFC CFC FC AFC Aces High III X NFC AFC CFC CAFC Yankee Independence
> >CNAFC FC Free Trade
> >CNFC CAFC Cal Me Mister Independence
> 
> NFC 2XNAFC Super Chief X Can Dual CH Dart of Netley Creek
> >NFC NAFC CNFC Wanapum Dart’s Dandy
> >CNFC Wanapum Darts Garbo
> 
> 2XNAFC 2XCNAFC FC Ebonstar Lean Mac X CFC CAFC Coldcreek’s Kala to Go
> >CNFC CNAFC FC AFC Prairiemarsh Madness
> >CNFC CAFC FC AFC TNT’s Mr Peabody Prairiemarsh


Brandon,

I was so wrapped up in current National, I forgot about the Canadian National winners from same litter including my own "Tule" and John's "Gunner" last mentioned. Memories there for sure but also Jane and Gunther wins and the Wanapum girls. Who says blood doesn't matter!

Thanks


----------



## steve hoppas

How is Bullet doing over all, It sounds like he had a big hunt in the 7th according to the blog before it went down, will they drop him for that? I have run hunt test for years, I'm just starting to test the waters for field trail and know they are judged differently on handle verses big hunt. Yes I know that is a huge leak of faith, but I plan to start out with a couple of his offspring. GO BULLET!


----------



## EdA

steve hoppas said:


> How is Bullet doing over all, It sounds like he had a big hunt in the 7th according to the blog before it went down, will they drop him for that?


Only 3 people in the universe know the answer to that question but probably not.


----------



## Chad Baker

It is the 7th I would not want a hunt that covered the whole field that late in the trial even if I had been perfect to this point. Mistakes are generally better to make earlier in the nationals than later.


----------



## Cowtown

Blog says we'll finish up this series and then on to the 10th to finish up around noon today?

Is this considered the 7, 8 and 9th series with the 2 blinds?

_________________

SUPER SATURDAY –

We are on Day Seven of the 2014 National, finishing up this last series (with 24) dogs to run … Then on to the Tenth, later today. They say that we will finish around noon.


----------



## BonMallari

Cowtown said:


> Blog says we'll finish up this series and then on to the 10th to finish up around noon today?
> 
> I thought this was the 7th/8th series? Don't they have 2 more to run? Maybe she means they'll finish this 7th/8th series at noon but the "on to the 10th later today" has me confused.
> 
> _________________
> 
> SUPER SATURDAY –
> 
> We are on Day Seven of the 2014 National, finishing up this last series (with 24) dogs to run … Then on to the Tenth, later today. They say that we will finish around noon.


the judges are apparently calling this the 7-8-9th series combined..looks like they will try and chop down to a manageable number to the 10th to get done with the amount of daylight that they have


----------



## EdA

Are we to have a National Retriever Champion who did not do a set of big water marks? The answer, probably, unless they cut to 8-10 dogs.


----------



## BonMallari

EdA said:


> Are we to have a National Retriever Champion who did not do a set of big water marks? The answer, probably, unless they cut to 8-10 dogs.


they wont have time to move the whole caravan and set up a big water Quad and still get done by 4pm CST ....we have all seen two tests combined, Have you ever seen THREE tests combined?


----------



## blindfaith

I lost track of the number of poison birds in this trial but certainly don't remember this many in any National that I've followed!


----------



## BonMallari

well the triple series is over...any guesses on how many to the tenth?

My guess is they come back with 12...I figure @ 15 minutes per dog x 12 dogs = 180 minutes/3 hours..figuring they dont drop a bird before 12:30 CST

Disclaimer : I have no insider info, just looking at a clock and checking when sunset is

I will say there will be more than a handful of dogs that will have a legit case for being carried to the 10th, but for whatever reason will get dropped


----------



## Twin Willows Labs

I'm sure there are a number of dogs that are a legitimate threat to win if they make the 10th, but after seeing what Roxie did in the last series at the WAFTC Am, she's not one to overlook if they let her run water marks.


----------



## Mike Berube

BonMallari said:


> the judges are apparently calling this the 7-8-9th series combined..looks like they will try and chop down to a manageable number to the 10th to get done with the amount of daylight that they have


Not sure how this series counts as three series...can someone explain that? I can understand calling it two series, as in the first, with two distinctive elements (marks/blind), but three...

Thanks


----------



## HarryWilliams

This Nat'l might deserve an 11th! HPW


----------



## EdA

HarryWilliams said:


> This Nat'l might deserve an 11th! HPW


On Sunday?


----------



## huntinman

Mike Berube said:


> Not sure how this series counts as three series...can someone explain that? I can understand calling it two series, as in the first, with two distinctive elements (marks/blind), but three...
> 
> Thanks


I've always had hard time with them calling a double and a blind two series, but they have done it forever. To me, one trip to the line should be one series. Or if they are all run from the same line at the same trip... One series... But do something to make it two series. Move to a different line. Leave the line and come back... Anything. JMHO


----------



## mjh345

BonMallari said:


> well the triple series is over...any guesses on how many to the tenth?
> 
> My guess is they come back with 12...I figure @ 15 minutes per dog x 12 dogs = 180 minutes/3 hours..figuring they dont drop a bird before 12:30 CST
> 
> Disclaimer : I have no insider info, just looking at a clock and checking when sunset is
> 
> I will say there will be more than a handful of dogs that will have a legit case for being carried to the 10th, but for whatever reason will get dropped


If our resident Vegas man is setting the line at 12 then,.... I'll take the over


----------



## Bill McKnight

Given the time constraints I do not have a problem with calling it three series. I do have a problem though with marks so close to an old set of falls. Particularly since they are interrupted retired marks. Hope they put on a well remembered 10th (watermarks) series!

The other Bill


----------



## Philip Carson

If I take the under, I'll need big odds.


----------



## BonMallari

huntinman said:


> I've always had hard time with them calling a double and a blind two series, but they have done it forever. To me, one trip to the line should be one series. Or if they are all run from the same line at the same trip... One series... But do something to make it two series. Move to a different line. Leave the line and come back... Anything. JMHO


there was a second mat to run the WB, and they did give the handlers the option of picking up yhe birds in whatever order they wanted....not defending them...I could see two series but IMO three was a stretch, and considering 1/2 was a combined series they will have only seen seven actual set ups


----------



## BonMallari

fourteen dogs to the tenth


----------



## huntinman

BonMallari said:


> there was a second mat to run the WB, and they did give the handlers the option of picking up yhe birds in whatever order they wanted....not defending them...I could see two series but IMO three was a stretch, and considering 1/2 was a combined series they will have only seen seven actual set ups


I was speaking in general terms... Not of the test at the National. Just my feelings on it.


----------



## huntinman

Bill McKnight said:


> Given the time constraints I do not have a problem with calling it three series. I do have a problem though with *marks so close to an old set of falls. *Particularly since they are interrupted retired marks. Hope they put on a well remembered 10th (watermarks) series!
> 
> The other Bill


Exactly... Look how many dogs got in trouble with the old marks (and blind). Some of those dogs were probably very clean up to that point.


----------



## Mark Littlejohn

*No.**Dog Name - Breed - Sex**Owner(s)**Handler(s)**10**FC Tucker Copy Of Carbon (Tucker), LM**David Aul DVM**Bill Eckett**11**FC-AFC Tealcreek Patton's Saber (Saber), LM**Chris & Portia Hatch**Chris Hatch**26**NFC Trumarc's Dot Come (Dottie), LF**Keith Thompson**Danny Farmer**38**FC Hyfly'n Turbo Jet (Turbo), LM**Wendy Bicknell**Ray Voigt**39**NAFC-FC Texas Troubador (Tubb), LM**Martha & John Russell**Martha Russell**43**FC Baypoint's Westminster Abbey (Abbey), LF**Don & Kathy Fregelette**Kenny Trott**50**FC Maple Creek's Spirit Warrior (Levi), LM**Warren & Susan Exo**Wayne Curtis**63**FC-AFC Candlewoods Life Is A Highway (Freeway), LM**John & Mary Stracka**John Stracka & Paul Sletten**72**AFC Watermark's Miss Kali Hart (Kaylee), LF**Sonya Harrigfeld**Bill Sargenti**77**FC-AFC Lubys And Whitewaters Pirate's Jewel (Jewel), LF**Jeff Schuett & Lydia Fekula**Ray Voigt**82**FC Hunting Creek Classy Girl JH (Classy), LF**Marion Stroud-Swingle**Alan Pleasant**93**FC Adams Acres Water Lilly (Lilly), LF**Marion Stroud-Swingle**Bill Sargenti**96**FC-AFC Mercy Mercy Mercy Me (Mercy), LF**John & Mary Stracka**John Stracka & Paul Sletten**98**FC-AFC Robbers' Stray Bullet (Bullet), LM**Marion Stroud-Swingle**Alan Pleasant*


----------



## BonMallari

TWO Amateur handlers still in the mix....love it


----------



## Bill McKnight

Go Martha go!

The other Bill


----------



## Twin Willows Labs

Has a dog ever won NFC and NAFC in the same year?


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras

BonMallari said:


> well the triple series is over...any guesses on how many to the tenth?
> 
> My guess is they come back with 12...I figure @ 15 minutes per dog x 12 dogs = 180 minutes/3 hours..figuring they dont drop a bird before 12:30 CST
> 
> Disclaimer : I have no insider info, just looking at a clock and checking when sunset is
> 
> I will say there will be more than a handful of dogs that will have a legit case for being carried to the 10th, but for whatever reason will get dropped


Did anyone get dropped that should not have?? That looks like a good group!


----------



## BonMallari

Twin Willows Labs said:


> Has a dog ever won NFC and NAFC in the same year?


Yes NFC NAFC Super Chief in 1968...in fact he won the National Amateur in the summer of '67 and swept both in '68


----------



## EdA

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Did anyone get dropped that should not have??


Do you mean the other 15 dogs who thought they were winning and were not called back?


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras

EdA said:


> Do you mean the other 15 dogs who thought they were winning and were not called back?


 Yes I do! Just thought somebody might have been missed and did well.


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

Most likely they all did really well!


----------



## byounglove

Yes. There were many nice jobs that didn't get called back. 😩


----------



## Labs a mundo

Yes, Bill....go Martha go!! We're at the Palm Springs Airport waiting for our Tubbs puppy to arrive. It would be nice to have a NFC and NAFC sire.


----------



## BonMallari

could we be seeing a repeat champion ?

sad to see Saber handle in the 10th, he has been knocking on the door so many times in the last couple of years...still one heck of a team


----------



## Twin Willows Labs

Just for fun, any predictions on a winner?


----------



## BonMallari

what a lousy break for Lilly and Bill Sargenti....two no birds in a row and she is the only dog left to run...She was my tie breaker pick in the EE Pick em....


----------



## Wade Thurman

Bill McKnight said:


> Given the time constraints I do not have a problem with calling it three series. I do have a problem though with marks so close to an old set of falls. Particularly since they are interrupted retired marks. Hope they put on a well remembered 10th (watermarks) series!
> 
> The other Bill


Why do you think they had time constraints? Carrying to many dogs that could have been dropped earlier? To many gun changes?


----------



## EdA

Twin Willows Labs said:


> Just for fun, any predictions on a winner?


I'll play and don't want to jinx sister

NFC Trumarc's Dot Come


----------



## Wade Thurman

Chad Baker said:


> It is the 7th I would not want a hunt that covered the whole field that late in the trial even if I had been perfect to this point. Mistakes are generally better to make earlier in the nationals than later.


IMHO early mistakes should be judged harder than later mistakes. The trial doesn't get easier as they go. 

Making a mistake on a double and a blind in the 1st should hurt you a lot more than a mistake on a very difficult triple or quad in the 7th or 8th. 

Just one man's opinion.


----------



## Twin Willows Labs

EdA said:


> I'll play and don't want to jinx sister
> 
> NFC Trumarc's Dot Come


That would be back to back, wouldn't it?


----------



## Bill McKnight

Wade, not being there I can only guess. Typically it results from a combination of: number of dogs called back, time to run each series, number of no birds, time to move between series, number of big hunts, time to do call backs, and weather. They seemed, from a distance, to manage the call backs (time to do) and logistics between series very well. Time management is one of the more important skills to master.....each trial presents it's own challenge. 

Go Martha go

The other Bill


----------



## jollydog

IMHO they should all be judged the same. From what I heard their first and second series was maybe their toughest!
They lost the most dogs there till some penciled out after the 6th.
I'm talking all marking tests.


----------



## Old School Labs

EdA said:


> I'll play and don't want to jinx sister
> 
> NFC Trumarc's Dot Come


I'll say Dottie or Bullet, cannot remember how prior 8-9 series went for them, but it was asked to predict..........


----------



## Mike W.

Bullet wins


----------



## g_fiebelkorn

Congratulations to Mr. Pleasant and Bullet.


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras

g_fiebelkorn said:


> Congratulations to Mr. Pleasant and Bullet.


You are faster than the Blog!!!


----------



## Mastercaster

g_fiebelkorn said:


> Congratulations to Mr. Pleasant and Bullet.


Also, congrats to Mr Hurst who found the magic bullet for producing some very nice dogs (no pun intended).


----------



## Chad Baker

I'm very happy for Allen! 
Wonder how many millions it took to get that blue ribbon for the owner? She had well over 700000 in just the three finalists shows money can buy it.


----------



## Gerard Rozas

over $400K a year and still took nearly 40 years Chad.

I would say that says money is not a short cut.


----------



## Chad Baker

I know of a couple dogs she didn't have enough money to buy.


----------



## Mike W.

Guys, let's focus on the dog here. Bullet is one of the truly dominant dogs of this era.

Congrats to NFC Bullet!!


----------



## bmiles

Mike W. said:


> Guys, let's focus on the dog here. Bullet is one of the truly dominant dogs of this era.
> 
> Congrats to NFC Bullet!!


Well said! Congrats to those who have been a part of this! Bullet is a very special animal!


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## Charles C.

Congrats to Bullet and all of his people. He's a very special dog that is deserving of the title.


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## moscowitz

Glad I got a chance to see Bullet run in Connecticut with Alan. Bullet deserves a National and so does Mr. Pleasant. And I tip my hat to the Martha Russell team.


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## born2retrieve

Congrats to Kippy! Thanks for putting your money into this sport!


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## Wade Thurman

born2retrieve said:


> congrats to kippy! Thanks for putting your money into this sport!


huh??????__


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## BonMallari

Chad Baker said:


> I know of a couple dogs she didn't have enough money to buy.


ROTFLMAO......you crack me up


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## Wade Thurman

Chad Baker said:


> I know of a couple dogs she didn't have enough money to buy.


Don't kid yourself, money wasn't the issue.


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## BonMallari

before this goes on:

Congrats to all the dogs that qualified for the National this past year..pretty damn tough when you realize you need an Open win plus two additional Open points, and those dont grow on trees and cant always be had with the stroke of a pen....

If I remember the unofficial tally correctly, the sire with the most progeny entered was:

NFC AFC Clubmead's Road Warrior


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## Chad Baker

I like how you are an expert when you don't have a clue what you are talking about. How many pelts you have on the wall there Wade? Money want buy some people's dogs. You must be a IFC, I'll clue you in (Internet).


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## lanse brown

When David Crow popped his way into the NRCCS at St. Louis he had a party. At 8:00 that night the guns were in Dennis Bath's room and there was a knock on the door, it was David who asked if he could come in for a drink. He was invited in and had told them "I had a party, but no one came." In horse racing we honor the HORSE- Man of War - not the Whitheys. I have run with and aginst Bullet and Dan and Alan. They are a deserving due to their hard work. It's the team not the owner. Well done Alan, Dan and NFC Bullet


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## zipmarc

Congrats to NFC Bullet and the entire team that supported him to this prestigious win.


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## Mary Lynn Metras

BonMallari said:


> before this goes on:
> 
> Congrats to all the dogs that qualified for the National this past year..pretty damn tough when you realize you need an Open win plus two additional Open points, and those dont grow on trees and cant always be had with the stroke of a pen....
> 
> If I remember the unofficial tally correctly, the sire with the most progeny entered was:
> 
> NFC AFC Clubmead's Road Warrior


Was Club Mead Road Warrior selected as a nominee for one of the top retrievers for Hall of Fame??


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## moscowitz

Chad never met you but I do admire you and your dogs. But lets not do this. You do what I dream of. Lets admire the dogs and handlers that qualified and finished. Only in my dreams.


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## TonyRodgz

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Was Club Mead Road Warrior selected as a nominee for one of the top retrievers for Hall of Fame??


Yes, an inductee along with NFC Windy. 
Bill Ecket and John Thomas are also inductees. 

http://www.theretrievernews.com/WhatsNew/2014-HOF-Nominees

Congrats to Bullet and his team.


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## sapitrucha

Congratz to Bullet and team, what an awesome pup!!


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## wetdog

I want to add congrats also to Bullet and the team. I had a chance to train with Bullet, Alan and Dan this past summer for pre-National Amateur training and can attest that they are a top notch animal and human team. I was impressed with them all at the git-go and during the week was amazed at how well they were doing the set-ups. Bullet and Dan were also finalists at the 2014 NARC. Also want to congratulate all of the qualifiers and finalists at this year's NRC, with a special shout out to a couple people I run trials with very frequently; Chris Hatch and Saber and Billy Sargenti, Sonya Harrigfeld and Kaylee. I am glad to see you there AGAIN Chris and good going Sonya for your first run at a national.


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## Bill McKnight

Let's not forget Augie and Abby in our celebration of team Bullet. 

The other Bill


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## saltgrass

Congrats to all that qualified and to the ones that finished.

Congrats to bullet and team!!!


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## roseberry

congrats to bullet, the plesants, dan and ms. swingle. big doins!

this thread is more interesting than i imagined!


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## Chad Baker

I know Allen and am extremely happy he won with a terrific animal. Allen is a great dog man and extremely hard worker and great guy. I was just pointing out what some people will do to win.


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## mathewrodriguez

The more people are willing to do to win, the more meaningful the accomplishment.


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## blindfaith

" The more people are willing to do......." ! I believe it depends upon what that something is and how it is done! It may be meaningful to them but not necessarily to me. I kind of figured that with the events of the past 10-20 years in this sport that a National would be won with these trappings and it would be difficult to fight the feelings that somewhat naturally pop into your head. What Chad said has been said by many, many others over the past years. Some weekends almost 50 dogs are owned by just two owners. It's food for thought. I'm not smart enough to decide what it gives back to " this sport"?


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## Dave Farrar

Bullet doesn't know or care whose name is on his papers. I'm pretty sure all he cares about is where the next duck is and when his next breeding will take place. He probably doesn't even know what the big fuss is over that silver bowl is about. 
For some, buying a championship is important to them and the people they hang out with.
That doesn't earn my respect and I'm sure those people don't care what I think.
Hell, I have a JH that she can't afford...


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## born2retrieve

How can you say it doesn't put money into the sport? It puts dogs on pros trucks. If I had money to burn I would do the same. Dan made the choice to sell bullet. So why not blame him? Why not blame Allen and all the other pros that take these dogs?! Tired of people whining that things are not fair. Life isn't fair!


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## Wade Thurman

born2retrieve said:


> How can you say it doesn't put money into the sport? It puts dogs on pros trucks. If I had money to burn I would do the same. Dan made the choice to sell bullet. So why not blame him? Why not blame Allen and all the other pros that take these dogs?! Tired of people whining that things are not fair. Life isn't fair!



Who is whining about things not being fair?


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## blindfaith

Hey guys,
I did not say it did not put money back into the sport nor did I complain about unfairness or am I whining.I'm also tired of being PC. I really don't know how to judge that. I wish I had loads of money to see how I would handle it but I know myself well enough to know that I would not go out and buy a "bunch" of already well trained dogs. Hell, I like rich people for a lot of reasons. That's just me. After I got some money because of a medical problem I ended up buying three 17-18 month old started dogs over a year period that I then trained and ran and I ACTUALLY FELT GUILTY ABOUT IT!! The honor should go predominantly to the dog absolutely. How much to the owner depends upon a bunch of stuff. I'm guessing that the pros will be filled up no matter. An interesting question is how much is too much? What if ALL the dogs in a competition were owned by ONE person who neither ran nor trained any of them. How much credit goes to the owner? Somewhere between here and there is a tipping point and to me we've came to it. As far as "blaming" the people who sold, no way! I might ( though I doubt it) have done the same. That does not mean that I give great credit to the person who did the buying. Big congrats to Bullet and Alan ( who trains a friend's dog) on a job well done!


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## EdA

Good for Kippy who has the resources and identified the dog she wanted. Good for a really quality couple Alan and Gwen Pleasant, and good for Dan Hurst who bred and trained Bullet and had his quality of life improved by the proceeds of the sale, and why does it matter if I buy a dog for $2000 and someone else buys one for & $2,000,000?


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## Denver

I find it amusing when wealthy people show such concern over other wealthy people's investments!


Chad Baker said:


> I'm very happy for Allen!
> Wonder how many millions it took to get that blue ribbon for the owner? She had well over 700000 in just the three finalists shows money can buy it.


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## Fire N Ice

Chad you officially made a fool of yourself. Whats it to you who spends what and what dogs are bought or sold. Stop embarrassing yourself.


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## captain

Big congrats to Bullet and Alan, Kippy and Dan, and of course Auggie and Abby. Bullet is one hell of a dog and this thread should not be taken over by people giving there opinions to what someone was willing to pay for a dog. Lets keep the focus on BULLET and his accomplishments!!!!!!!!


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## fishduck

BonMallari said:


> what a lousy break for Lilly and Bill Sargenti....two no birds in a row and she is the only dog left to run...She was my tie breaker pick in the EE Pick em....


As in many things, that doesn't tell the whole story. Lilly was way in front on both no birds & probably didn't see the retired pheasant flyer. Sat like a rock on the rerun & did a very nice job! From the gallery, the no birds appeared to work in her favor.

Congratulations to team Bullet & all the finalists!


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## Fire N Ice

Mark Lilly hasn't watched all the birds for years. She just needs to see the guns. That's why in the sixth she made the huge swim to the point struggling over and over to get over the tree in the water, because that's where the bird should have been thrown. She is an incredible animal. You are right though about the no birds helping her to sit through the test. Make no mistake about it though, she would have got all four first time. She's a Hall of Famer. Career high pointed open dog last two of her 7 straight @130.


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## fishduck

Lilly is a special animal that did an incredible job. To say she can mark is an understatement!! In no way was my commentary meant to detract from her career or performance. Simply wished to point out that in this case a no bird may have been an atvantage.


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## Cooper

I have been doing dogs for 48 years now and you often hear where someone has bought a championship, but regardless how much the owner invests, it comes down to the team of dog and handler to excel. I read an article some years back about not taking away another person's joy. It seems like a lot of us tend to do that on occasion on purpose or by accident. I say congratulations to the owner, handler and the dog and here's to your well earned joy. I'm happy for you.


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## Justin Allen

Congrats to Bullett and Mr.Pleasant!!


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## Scott Adams




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## canuckkiller

*Captain's Remarkls*

A MEN .... A MEN!


Bill Connor


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## canuckkiller

*Eda's Remarks*

ABSOLUTELY!!!

Bill Connor


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## canuckkiller

*David Crow*

DAVID & GRETCHEN CROW GOT INTO THE GAME LATER IN LIFE AND BESIDE HAVING THE
GOOD FORTUNE TO ACQUIRE & OWN SEVERAL GOOD DOGS, ALWAYS ENJOYED THE
CAMARADERIE OF WEEKEND TIALS WITH PEERS BING GRUNEWALD, OSCAR BREWER
AND OTHERS.

DAVID, A HUGE 'BOOMER SOONER BACKER', MY EXPERIENCE KNOWING THE CROWS & JUDGING
THEM WITH THEIR DOGS THEY WERE A CREDIT TO THE GAME.

Bill Connor


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## younggun86

Chad do you still trial? Im assuming Grady is retired, but how about trav? Just a fan of the sport and love seeing awesome dogs work and would love to see either one of them run


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## DoubleHaul

Congrats to everyone involved!

It was, I am sure, somewhat bittersweet with the loss of Gwen's father on Friday and I hope the joy of the results on Saturday help ease that pain. 

Still, it was a great accomplishment for all of Team Bullet and Team Black River. Regardless of how much he cost, it was not easy for this dog/handler team from the moment he showed up on the truck. It took a lot of hard work and training for Alan and Bullet to get on the same page and the results this year, since they have, are pretty incredible. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks, IMO.


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## Becky Mills

DoubleHaul said:


> Congrats to everyone involved!
> 
> It was, I am sure, somewhat bittersweet with the loss of Gwen's father on Friday and I hope the joy of the results on Saturday help ease that pain.
> 
> Still, it was a great accomplishment for all of Team Bullet and Team Black River. Regardless of how much he cost, it was not easy for this dog/handler team from the moment he showed up on the truck. It took a lot of hard work and training for Alan and Bullet to get on the same page and the results this year, since they have, are pretty incredible. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks, IMO.


What Penn said, times two. So proud of Alan and Gwen - two of my all time long time favorites.


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## Gun_Dog2002

EdA said:


> Good for Kippy who has the resources and identified the dog she wanted. Good for a really quality couple Alan and Gwen Pleasant, and good for Dan Hurst who bred and trained Bullet and had his quality of life improved by the proceeds of the sale, and why does it matter if I buy a dog for $2000 and someone else buys one for & $2,000,000?


I'd prefer to buy for 2k and sell for 2mill....

/Paul


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## jeff evans

Whats the Top Producing Sire of this years national open and the Sire of this years NFC have in common...???


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## Don

They are both from Washington


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## David Bailey

Chad Baker said:


> I know of a couple dogs she didn't have enough money to buy.





I nominate this for post of the year. Just spit coffee all over the screen. Damn, that was funny.


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## Dan Storts

jeff evans said:


> Whats the Top Producing Sire of this years national open and the Sire of this years NFC have in common...???


The Cosmo gene pool runs on both sides of the family tree. FC/AFC Fishtrap Debbie Does Ducks (on Auggie's side) and FC/AFC Dare to Dream (on Chopper's Side) were from the same litter.


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## jeff evans

Don said:


> They are both from Washington


Aaand, they are both graduates of McKenna Kennels


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## jeff evans

jeff evans said:


> Aaand, they are both graduates of McKenna Kennels


Yes the Cosmo Gene Pool runs deep,...and cosmo was a graduate as well


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## mpage

*Congrats dan*

Way to go Dan.


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