# Nahra?



## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

If this is a loaded question please disregard but I was wondering what happend to NAHRA. I have never been involved in any NAHRA events/clubs but I see a number of NAHRA titled dogs. I wanted to look into it and maybe go to an event. I went to the NAHRA site and saw that there are only 33 clubs and none in the NC/GA/SC area. DId it uses to be more popular and fall out of favor or was it always small? It is surprising with the growth of hunt tests in the last few years and the success of the HRC which now has 4-5X as many clubs.


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

Good question. I know there was a rough time back around 98-99, and on another web-ring, it often got contentious. There's a brief but thorough history recounted in Richard Wolter's book on the Labrador, but I know there was much more 'history' made after his book was published. I'm awaiting replies with you on this one.


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## Mistyriver (May 19, 2005)

Do a search and you shall learn. It has been discussed many a times. I use to run NAHRA in NH and really enjoyed it. 

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16594&highlight=NAHRA


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Rubbergate........
just saying regards


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

badbullgator said:


> Rubbergate........
> just saying regards


 
Dude  you cannot pack all that went under the bridge into one word like that 

short responce, we got knocked down but we are up again, you aint never gonna keep us down  Look at Hills Ferry!!!!
chug a chug a woo wooo we are like the little train that could.
The original, the best, the total test of the hunting retriever.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Bubba said:


> It's waaaaaaaaayyyy more than Rubbergate- that was the sluice shot on a deader. It has more to do with the President/Founder of the organization sittting in a court room trying desperately to prevent disclosure of the financial records of an organization that according to the "Revered Leader" had NO members. There is a long and bitter trail of tears that is best left to fall into the obscurity of time dimmed memories.
> 
> There is a new management in place and with any luck at all they will bring about a renewal that will flourish and bear the fruit.
> 
> ...


Brother Bubba,

If we truly want to let the old skeletons die in the closet, we need to stop rehashing our own personal versions of the stuff that is dimmed in gray and focus on the part that is left in black.

That said, the last NAHRA event I attended was many years ago. I wish the program well, and consider those still running it to be some of my closest friends on the planet.

Chris


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

Bill and I were charter members of Great Southern NAHRA Club out of Covington, GA. The head honchos at that time were Richard Wolters, Jack Jagoda and Ned Spears. They gave a lot of theirselves to give hunters a place to play and improve their dogs. Dick Wolters took me aside one time after judging BA, and told me that if I just had to have a brown dog, at least I had a good one. 

(Great Southern evolved into Old South HRC as the original members either moved on or were from farther North of Atlanta.) They were a great group of people and lots of fun to run with. The tests were well thought out and challenging. We put on their Preliminary in Camden, AL. Shortly after that, we moved to Mississippi and it was impossible to make the long trip to Georgia and the Carolinas. It was a great club and well supported along the East coast but had trouble in the early days of crossing the Chattahoochie River and moving West. HRC was established in Louisiana and was more convenient for the many hunters in that area. NAHRA is a great organization and has overcome the bumps in the road, go, join and have fun for you and your buddy.


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

Alaska's NAHRA club continues to 'chug along'. I, for one, enjoy the tests and what the organization has to offer...



Juli


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Juli H said:


> Alaska's NAHRA club continues to 'chug along'. I, for one, enjoy the tests and what the organization has to offer...
> 
> 
> 
> Juli


Juli, in 1992, when I started running NAHRA, there were 3 NAHRA clubs in Alaska. The Penninsula Club died of natural causes and the Fairbanks club almost died during Ferril's lawsuit and rubbergate and then went to HRC.

I really loved NAHRA when I ran it.

All in all, I think what happened to the Alaska clubs is about what happened nationally.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

I started out in HTs in NAHRA in the mid 90s. I lived in VA and it was great--you could run a test every weekend and sleep in your own bed because of all the clubs in the area. I stayed involved, started judging and by about the late 90s was on the board of my local club and saw some of the grumblings within the organization. Then I moved to GA where there was no NAHRA, so started playing AKC. When I moved to NC, NAHRA was gone in the region and it looks like most of the clubs went to HRC.

I never found out what happened for sure, but I am glad to hear that it is alive and well in some parts of the country. I miss it.


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## road kill (Feb 15, 2009)

Me and Elvis run the NAHRA tests in MN & IA.
We live in Milwaukee area.

The people and tests have been fantastic.

Team Elvis is trying to get a NAHRA club up and running in the South Eastern WI area.

The hope is to have a NAHRA event here mid summer '10.

Give it a try and you will enjoy it.

Life is short, look ahead!!

stan b & Elvis


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## John Corman (Jul 23, 2006)

Nate and dnf777, Sent both of you pm's. My view is that the NAHRA tests are the closest thing there is to the real hunting scenario.


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

John Corman said:


> Nate and dnf777, Sent both of you pm's. My view is that the NAHRA tests are the closest thing there is to the real hunting scenario.


Thanks John, I'll look and see, but I don't think there are any clubs in the western Pa area.

I hope my initial comment wasn't precieved at dispariging. The folks I knew back when I lived in Texas and Louisiana were outstanding and nothing but helpful. I hope NAHRA does well, and if a club appears in my area, I would not hesitate to support it.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

NAHRA is struggling along. I joined in '84 and followed the ups and downs.

Bubba's greyed out remarks are about on target - even now, but the new administration is trying to get the finances together. They promise a new website soon, but the volunteer one still works:

http://www.nahranews.org/

We still have a very busy schedule in the upper MidWest - so much so that it's tough to schedule events in the cooler part of early summer. But it's time for real hunting now and NAHRA is far on the back burner around here.

NAHRA was the first "HT" - affiliated with AKC for a year. HRC split off when the AKC affilitation happened and formed a very good symbiosis with UKC. They have administred and financed their organization outstandily - almost 500 dogs at the up-coming "Grand". AKC and NAHRA split in '85 and AKC wrote their own rules. The purpose of the three is similar, but each has evolved their own "style." I guess the main difference in events is that NAHRA has an upland test and trail in the top 2 stakes, HRC has separate upland tests (and I never saw a trail, tho in theory they allow it).

In Pennsylvania:

SOUTHWESTERN PENNSYLVANIA H.R.C.

NORTHERN PIEDMONT R.C.


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## The Snows (Jul 19, 2004)

dnf777 ....

There are two clubs currently running NAHRA tests in PA. The SW Pennsylvania Retriever Club runs a NAHRA test the first weekend of August in the Grove City area. The Northern Piedmont Retriever Club runs two tests per year (one in the spring and one in the fall). Their fall test was just held in the Carlisle, PA area.

As well, there is also the Western NY club which runs a test in mid-May in the Batavia, NY area and the Leatherstockings Retriever Club which runs a test in early June in the Baldwinsville / Syracuse, NY area. 

A lot of great people and lots of fun! Check out the calendar of events on the NAHRA website at www.nahranews.org


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> Dude  you cannot pack all that went under the bridge into one word like that
> 
> short responce, we got knocked down but we are up again, you aint never gonna keep us down  Look at Hills Ferry!!!!
> chug a chug a woo wooo we are like the little train that could.
> The original, the best, the total test of the hunting retriever.


 
Wasn't really knocking it, just saying rubbergate was the begining of the end and they still have not recovered fully. I have nothing against them the poster asked


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

I think that folks can let the former President soap opera drag them down if they choose to. To my mind, if your goals are to run the event and have fun with your dogs, it's still there.

I think it is when folks look beyond the "fun with the dogs" part, that it gets silly, ugly, petty...

I'm not casting stones. I was caught up in it years ago. I was working to help align, streamline, and standardize NAHRA judging clinics back in the late 90's when I moved back to PA from NY. I'd been in the program since 1987. This happened to coincide with some of the rubber duck tests and the movement to alter the rulebook. I was told by the same guy mentioned that a good judges' seminar leader was currently/actively running dogs in the program (I'd just finished Luke's GMHR) and did not have another agenda. At that point I was bleeding brown and yellow, the old NAHRA colors. 

I sent him an email, told him I'd not bug him anymore, helped start Keystone Waterfowlers (HRC club) and started dreaming of the days I'd have a new puppy to run whitecoat games.

Know what? All dog games are good for the dogs. All dog games are fun. It's the people that get bogged down in nonsense that the dogs could care less about, that mess it up.

Chris


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

If you live out West and have any interest in participating in or holding a Field Test please give me a shout or whisper whichever you prefer. 

To those that are curious, if you can, go take a look-see some time. The original spirit is still there. There is just something about that in which I just don't fully understand. But it keeps me going back. Harry


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

HarryWilliams said:


> If you live out West and have any interest in participating in or holding a Field Test please give me a shout or whisper whichever you prefer.
> 
> To those that are curious, if you can, go take a look-see some time. The original spirit is still there. _*There is just something about that in which I just don't fully understand.*_ But it keeps me going back. Harry


Harry, I think you call that something "Fun"...and my NAHRA days were some of the most fun I've ever had in the outdoors. If you focus on the dog stuff, and not the political/leadership/financial statement/he said-she said/, it's fun!


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## Jim Wetzler (Jul 16, 2007)

As Co Chair of this past years Invitational, I can honestly say that the good old NAHRA spirit was alive and well in Baldwinsville N.Y.we had founders dinner, had 48 good solid entrys,some wonderful dog work and a board and slate of officers that is really forward thinking, and not afraid to do the work.
We have an Invitational slated for Washington in 2010 with a great group headed by Jim Tracey.
Come on out, we don't bite, and still have one heck of a standard to test the dogs.
Any takers?


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

Long live NAHRA. I have run all three hunt test venues. Best all around gun dog program and closest to real hunting is NAHRA. I'll run NAHRA, HRC, then AKC in that order. IMHO


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## tomhunter (Jan 27, 2007)

Nate, I'll tell ya, I've been blessed to have a great "out of nothing" dog that has the ability to run them all. But, I'll tell you what, NARHA by far is a much more enjoyable and complete test of the dogs. AKC is definitley only about the titles, wereas NARHA is about the "complete retreiver" IMHO. Definitly get involved as you will enjoy it tremendously.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

I feel blessed to have stumbled into NAHRA as a "doggie game"

WHen I started, I was a college student that had read a few books, but really knew nothing of substance about dog training. The group of guys that I test and train with have been patient, supportive, helpfull, and fun to be around. After coming with me to several NAHRA tests, my wife went with me to a test in another venue, and after leaving that test told me that though it was fun to watch another type of test, she wold only come with me to NAHRA tests from now on as it is a much more relaxed/family atmosphere.

One thing I like about it from the testing standpoint if that the upland is part of the test, which is pretty cool for those of us with one hound for all occasions. Also, in the judging guidlines it reminds judges to at the end of the day ask yourself, "would I hunt with this dog?" That to me says it all, we are looking for hunting dogs.

I know for a while, and I think still, any club that decides to join or Rejoin gets free membership for the club and its members for a year, so if you have a club looking for another game to play, now is the time, we are growing again.

OTherwise, you may have to look around a little to find us, but you can still find us, and you will be glad you did....


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## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

We have always run AKC, but last year my husband lent me our older female MH and I played in NAHRA and got a WR title on her. It was great fun. This year, there were fewer events, so we didn't go. I probably won't bother renewing my membership again. They are a great group and have nice tests, but there seems to be some internal problems. Hope they survive it and get back to more clubs and tests again someday in the future.


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

Pat Puwal said:


> We have always run AKC, but last year my husband lent me our older female MH and I played in NAHRA and got a WR title on her. It was great fun. This year, there were fewer events, so we didn't go. I probably won't bother renewing my membership again. They are a great group and have nice tests, but there seems to be some internal problems. Hope they survive it and get back to more clubs and tests again someday in the future.


Pat, I'm glad you had a good time at the NAHRA events that you ran. As others have attested, NAHRA tests are among the best at simulating a true hunting situation, they test retrievers with a land series, water series, quarter and steady to flush, and a trail... the only HTs that test the complete hunting retriever. NAHRA people also are great to hang around with and to learn from. 

But, if you do not know, it does not help NAHRA to say "there seems to be some internal problems". NAHRA is now led by a group of officers and board of directors who have the best interests of the program at the forefront of their minds and actions. They are working hard to rebuild a very proud program. The only problems the organization has are individuals who cannot let go of the past and continue to be rumor mongers.

So, I don't mean to be harsh, but if you don't really know of "internal problems", please do not speculate there such issues exist.

Having fun in NAHRA, regards...


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

tomhunter said:


> Nate, I'll tell ya, I've been blessed to have a great "out of nothing" dog that has the ability to run them all. But, I'll tell you what, NARHA by far is a much more enjoyable and complete test of the dogs.* AKC is definitley only about the titles, *wereas NARHA is about the "complete retreiver" IMHO. Definitly get involved as you will enjoy it tremendously.


thats painting with a very broad brush...every organization has their strengths and every one has their flaws..everyone has a preference , but to generalize about one organization is neither fair to the one you judge nor the one you run...;-)


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## Hope (May 6, 2005)

Very fortunate to live in NJ. With in a 4 hour radius there are 6 clubs that hold tests on a regular basis. The tests / clubs are great but whats the best in my book since we test against a standard is that everyone is rooting for one another. Is it comon place in the other dog games for the other handlers to applaud one another when you finish your series? I am sure that if there is a club out there who wants to put on a NAHRA test just let the home office know. Set it up and NAHRA dogs will be there.
Wayne


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## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

Sorry to ruffle feathers because I really do like the NAHRA organization. I am glad to hear that the rumors spread by some of the members are not true.


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Apparently it was a loaded question to some degree. Sorry I was just curious. I did read the rules and it seems like a fun test. To bad there isn't more of it around here.


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## Dan Tongen (Nov 19, 2005)

Nate

We can fix that, all you need to do is get a club going and start having some tests. PM me and I can give you some info to get started.

thanks
Dan


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## Jim Person (Jan 5, 2003)

I used to bleed yellow and brown as did Chris. I was one that left in the mass exodus in rubbergate.... I have seen akc tests(not my cup of tea) I have run and judged HRC they are fun, but last year our club held a nahra test again and I tell ya it was fun.and it was great to be back.. NAHRA 's program produces some fine all around total package hunting retrievers... I love the upland being part of the tests instead of seperate tests and titles as in HRC... I would say check them all out and run what suits you the best. If ya can afford it run em all. Having fun with your dog is #1... It is much more fun just running and judging and staying away from the politics and BS.. remember have fun with you dog... Jim
ps Sounds like you area could really benefit from a nahra test, contact them and try to get a club going.


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## WingsAtDawn (Jun 15, 2009)

I run both AKC and NAHRA and have a blast with both. I honestly enjoy training my dog to participate in both types of test as I believe it leads to a better all around retriever. IMO both AKC and NAHRA have a slightly different training/testing focus - which IMO is a good thing you put both together and have not only a better dog but more opportunity to have fun. I do not really have any experience with HRC - none that I know of in my area


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## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

I have a question for all you NAHRA clubs. Have you ever made any money when putting on an event? Most clubs have told me they lose money on their events and don't even break even. How can clubs hold events that lose money, eventually won't this hurt a club?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

labraiser said:


> I have a question for all you NAHRA clubs. Have you ever made any money when putting on an event?


....yes...


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## kodyb (Jun 30, 2008)

yes, we do quite well at our events.


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## BrianW (May 10, 2005)

I went to a NAHRA "picnic test" in April 2005 with the Spokane Bird Dog Assoc. and have been having fun with it ever since. I wasn't there for "rubbergate" and don't really care about it either. My dogs live in the "now" and as far as the tests go, so do I.

The NAHRA Field Tests have inspired me to be a better trainer/handler and to bring my dogs to be, imo, complete hunters. As a result, i've checked out the AKC & HRC venues too and they're fun in their own ways, but for for the upper levels (Started/Junior/Started are all about the same), _test for test_, NAHRA gives me more bang for my buck. Yes, you can do Upland in HRC but that's a seperate test/more $'s and it's not offered at every Hunt. 

A NAHRA Intermediate or Senior Fiel Test is more like a "typical" day's hunt for me than the others and, I guess, the bottom line why I like it.


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## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

That is good news to hear, keep up the good work!


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

kodyb said:


> yes, we do quite well at our events.


Thanks to a well run club with members that volunteer at the tests, and folks like Kody and his dad, who have dedicated much of their time and energy into the club...

We have a GREAT group of people.  

Juli


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

labraiser said:


> I have a question for all you NAHRA clubs. Have you ever made any money when putting on an event? Most clubs have told me they lose money on their events and don't even break even. How can clubs hold events that lose money, eventually won't this hurt a club?



We do, but we are in a NAHRA "hotbed" in teh cetnral region. We usually have very good numbers at our test. Like anything else though, you have to budget accordingly for your expenses, birds out of town judges etc. I would bet that if at all possible if there was a new club holding a test, that the existing NAHRA folks would do what ever possible to help out be it entries judges or whatever....


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2009)

We run NAHRA AKC and FIELD TRIALS have been involved with NAHRA since 1989 and its a great organization. I Just finished watching a tape I have called the Ultimate Outdoor Experience it was filmed at the 1989 NAHRA Invitational in Coveington GA with Wayne Pearson Jack Richard Wolters and Jack Jagoda. I think that was the third one they held and thats when they flew the handlers and their dogs in. Our good friend who has since passed, Larry Walker got us involved with NAHRA Larry and his wife Micky where huge supporters and most of the tests were held in Parker. I just watched my tape of my old gal GMHR Gadwalls Nightmare ( Cody) when she qualified at the 1992 Invitational held at Sauvie Island Oregon making her a member of the ALL American Team! The Good Ole Days!


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

gmhr1 said:


> We run NAHRA AKC and FIELD TRIALS have been involved with NAHRA since 1989 and its a great organization. I Just finished watching a tape I have called the Ultimate Outdoor Experience it was filmed at the 1989 NAHRA Invitational in Coveington GA with Wayne Pearson Jack Richard Wolters and Jack Jagoda. Than I watched my tape of my old gal GMHR Gadwalls Nightmare ( Cody) when she qualified at the 1992 Invitational held at Sauvie Island Oregon making her a member of the ALL American Team! The Good Ole Days!


Odd how things work out sometimes. I was Chief Marshall for that event and the events of that week were the primary reasons that led me to walk away. 

Never watch sausage get made regards

Bubba


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2009)

Well you all did a good job keeping any problems from the handlers, ourselves and all the handlers we were with had a Great Time!


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

Bubba,

I am curious...

Does 
sausage making' occur at AKC or UKC(HRC) events? I can't imagine that NAHRA is the only organization that has made mistakes or had issues at tests...

What is important, is what is happening now...to improve the organization....

I wasn't involved with NAHRA at the time of their 'meltdown', but it seems like it should be water under the bridge now, don't you think?

Juli


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Bubba said:


> Odd how things work out sometimes. I was Chief Marshall for that event and the events of that week were the primary reasons that led me to walk away.
> 
> Never watch sausage get made regards
> 
> Bubba





Juli H said:


> Bubba,
> 
> I am curious...
> 
> ...


Tell me Mr. Bobba O’Rielly 
For sometimes I am blinded by love. I am all about NAHRA talking NAHRA into most every akc vs. hrc I can get my hands on here. All NAHRA all the time 24/7 kid tested mother approved NAHRA NAHRA NAHRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You may have noticed it in some of my posts being the helpful helperperson you can be.
Earlier this year I made a public pledge in my own humbly way to support my mostest favoritist dog game that I ever play, and I do, on occasion play a couple others yes I do, and plan to keep that up thank you.
It was this thread remember? http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34114&highlight=very+big+mouth
And I am very pleased to report that 3 clubs took advantage of my offer. Yankee came back and Minot and Hills Ferry started hosting for the first time. Minot mailed me a wicked cool hat that I wore today in the duck blind and Yankee gave me a jar of Maggiori OLIO EXTRAVERGINE DI OLIVA that was to die for. Drizzled over fresh tomatoes and mozzarella and basil picked from the window! Man, but I digress.
Tell me Bubba, should all of us working as best we can doing the little bits we are able to do stop? Is that what your after, us to just stop?
Pointedly, I am considering, pondering, ruminating about the next year and my humble little pledge. I think I should do it again for 2010. That even rhymes doesn’t it? 
Again for 2010! Again for 2010!
Seeing as you have your finger on the pulse of the future I want you to tell me what to do. Should I continue with the new club gift policy.
Make sure you read it before you vote on it. I will do whatever you decide.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> Tell me Mr. Bobba O’Rielly
> For sometimes I am blinded by love. I am all about NAHRA talking NAHRA into most every akc vs. hrc I can get my hands on here. All NAHRA all the time 24/7 kid tested mother approved NAHRA NAHRA NAHRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> You may have noticed it in some of my posts being the helpful helperperson you can be.
> Earlier this year I made a public pledge in my own humbly way to support my mostest favoritist dog game that I ever play, and I do, on occasion play a couple others yes I do, and plan to keep that up thank you.
> ...


Here is the deal. There were 6 of us that met in the basement of the Eagles Lodge in Vancouver Wa in 1984. We decided that there should be NAHRA and each of us put $100 into a pot to make that happen. Over the next few years we watched our investment grow to a viable and respectable venue to test retrievers. I met a ton of lifelong friends and some experiences that will entertain me for the rest of etertinity. I don't even want to know (and especially don't want the redhead to know) what the full extent of my investment into the organization is - financial or just plain BST. There are many like me- the list is LONG and the names will be familiar to many. 

The elements that poisoned the well are gone for the most part although the relationship isn't severed to the extent that I would like to see.

The folks that killed the best are dead or out of the picture. NAHRA has an ELECTED leadership and open finances (first ever). There is a new rule book and a new vigor. I truly wish the best for all that embrace and persist what could have and should have been the premier sporting dog organization in the world. 

Ken my brother- I would encourage you to do all that you can to ressurect this organization and bring it back to what it could have been. 

Go forth and prosper regards

Bubba


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## mcnaugt (Nov 19, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> Tell me Mr. Bobba O’Rielly
> For sometimes I am blinded by love. I am all about NAHRA talking NAHRA into most every akc vs. hrc I can get my hands on here. All NAHRA all the time 24/7 kid tested mother approved NAHRA NAHRA NAHRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> You may have noticed it in some of my posts being the helpful helperperson you can be.
> Earlier this year I made a public pledge in my own humbly way to support my mostest favoritist dog game that I ever play, and I do, on occasion play a couple others yes I do, and plan to keep that up thank you.
> ...


How do you really feel about it!!!!!!! I don't think Bubba was telling anyone to stop running NAHRA. I for one use to run NAHRA and quit running it for my own personal reasons... I do not think it is a bad game (they are all good if your a dog)...


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

The NAHRA I know has some of the finest people a person could hope to meet in it, and a very dedicated and hard working group of those people are doing what they can to steer NAHRA into the future. All past issues aside, the NAHRA I know is a great place for the ameture trainer to feel at home and welcome. There are now four stakes that will let you progress at your own rate, to the level you feel comfortable with. Bottom line great people and a great game. The NAHRA I know is a great way to spend a weekend!


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

mcnaugt said:


> I do not think it is a bad game (they are all good if your a dog)...


There is your bottom line...Most dogs running NAHRA or any of the other various retriever games available today would be sitting in someones back yard chewing a bone if not for these games. Imagine how many great dogs would never have had the chance to do what they were bred to do if not for all of these organizations. There is a game for everyone and to each his own. Continued growth and success to all of these groups and the participants.


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## tigerinflordia (Oct 12, 2009)

Jack Jagoda RUINED NAHRA.


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## Lance-CO (Jan 10, 2003)

I started with NAHRA too. In fact, my email address is my old NAHRA ID number = caman01


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

tigerinflordia said:


> Jack Jagoda RUINED NAHRA.


True or false (and that can be debated until the end of days) that is a mighty negative first post. Welcome to RTF


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Bubba said:


> The elements that poisoned the well are gone for the most part although the relationship isn't severed to the extent that I would like to see.
> 
> The folks that killed the best are dead or out of the picture. NAHRA has an ELECTED leadership and open finances (first ever). There is a new rule book and a new vigor. I truly wish the best for all that embrace and persist what could have and should have been the premier sporting dog organization in the world.
> 
> ...


Ken, Don't worry about ancient history, but remember that many people's work was hurt by it. Many of them are just not coming back.

If NAHRA can make Bubba's words true soon, it has a chance to move forward. And if it does, that doesn't detract from the other games. (I've enjoyed them all and prefer NAHRA tests, but there has to be an organization...)

Good hunting,


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

i think Jack is finding out you can't kill an idea...

NAHRA is a great game for anyone interested in testing a dog against a written standard to produce an excellent hunting retriever.-Paul


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## Labs (Jun 18, 2008)

Here is my two cents on the dogs games....not bashing one over the other, just a sense that I get when running the venue....

a) AKC - seems to me that running these events are more for monetary reasons....ie, I will command a higher price for my pups if I title them in AKC
Let's be honest here, if this wasn't the case, you wouldn't see show labs every weekend trying for the 20th time to earn a JH...They also seem to be more about precision handling and precision line manners...will I continue running AKC, you bet, because there are concepts that are stressed in this venue I believe to be valuable to the dog.

b) HRC - have not run one of these events, but I like some of the concepts here, as well. The in-fighting about handler attire, I could do without....will I give it a shot one day...probably, because I believe it to be valuable to the dog.

c) NAHRA - biased, yep, I sure am. I like this venue the best, as I believe it tests the entire package. Land marks, land blind, water marks, water blind, trail, and an upland series. You should see the wheels come off the AKC handlers when a judge throws an upland series at them, as it is allowed, but no one uses it...talk about a pucker factor...I believe this is the most realistic form of testing there is...and I will continue supporting this organization because I believe it to be valuable to the dog.

I guess the bottom line is that all the dog games are valuable to the dogs, and that no organization is without faults. Some people just see other advantages besides the value to the dog...some of it is as simple as which oganization you were introduced to first, or the fact that you have friends running in that venue...did I paint with a pretty broad brush...sure did, but I am just speaking from my personal experiences with each organization.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

My favorite tests were NAHRA tests. They were challenging hunting situations. I never felt like any tests were out to trick the dogs. There were types of hunting scenarios set-up I hadn't done before. Those tended to bother me more than my dogs!

Tom


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

It is a shame that NAHRA can't just merge with HRC making both organs stronger. :?


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

AmiableLabs said:


> It is a shame that NAHRA can't just merge with HRC making both organs stronger. :?


I believe that was explored in the past.

Chris


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I believe that was explored in the past.


Yeah, I remember.


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## Dan Nelson (Jun 26, 2009)

Just to let everyone know, the Phoenix, AZ club (Copper State Hunting Retriever Club) is having a NAHRA hunt test the first weekend in December 2009. See the club's website for more information.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

To say that anyone ruined NAHRA implies that the current NAHRA is in fact ruined. I would disagree. As stated before there is some stuff that has happend in the past, near or distant, that has hurt NAHRA, but as our new President stated at the Ivitational this past summer. NAHRA is like the USS Yorktown. It has taken some hits, but has not sunk and will not sink, we will keep moving forward!


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## caglatz (Aug 21, 2006)

limiman12 said:


> NAHRA is like the USS Yorktown. It has taken some hits, but has not sunk and will not sink, we will keep moving forward!


Incidentally, The USS Yorktown (CV-10) in Charleston Harbor is the second carrier to be named the Yorktown. The first, USS Yorktown (CV-5) was sunk at the battle of Midway... but I digress.....

Look I'm a new guy at all these dog games. I personally choose to run NAHRA because that's what's available geographically in my area. I've had great experiences at every event I attended - so it keeps me coming back. I'm sure there's good in most venues - HRC, AKC, NAVDA, APLA, etc. etc. etc..... There's room for everyone. The people are great, the dogs love the competition and I still get the butterfly feeling as we go to the line. I would love to try another venue as I hope everyone feels welcome to try NAHRA. It's all about the People and Dogs !!

Good training and good hunting !


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## Byron Musick (Sep 19, 2008)

limiman12 said:


> NAHRA is like the USS Yorktown. It has taken some hits, but has not sunk and will not sink, we will keep moving forward!



Which USS Yorktown are we talking about? If its the CG-48 USS Yorktown, it was decommisioned and used as a TARGET ship, and it most definately sank...


In the future use the USS Ticonderoga, it caught on fire a few times, but it still floats... First and Flammable, USS Ticonderoga CG-47! Better choice I think!


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

From Wikipedia:

*USS Yorktown (CV/CVA/CVS-10)* is one of 24 _Essex_-class aircraft carriers built during World War II for the United States Navy. She is named after the Battle of Yorktown of the American Revolutionary War, and is the *fourth* U.S. Navy ship to bear the name.

from the Ticonderoga site:
USS TICONDEROGA was the lead ship of the TICONDEROGA class and *fifth* ship in the Navy to bear the name.

While "first and flammable" is cute (almost irresistable!), NAHRA doesn't need a (decommissioned) boat mascot - just make things Bubba wrote above true...


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## cgoeson (Jan 22, 2008)

Dan Nelson said:


> Just to let everyone know, the Phoenix, AZ club (Copper State Hunting Retriever Club) is having a NAHRA hunt test the first weekend in December 2009. See the club's website for more information.


Got a link, Dan?


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## Byron Musick (Sep 19, 2008)

Keith,
I was just having fun with the Yorktown, having served on the guided missile cruiser CG-47 Ticonderoga, back when we had a major fire in our after uptake (rear engine exhaust). I had to modifiy the "First and Formidable" to "First and Flammable", just could not resist!
I plan on throwing some birds at a upcoming NAHRA test here in Virginia on the 24th of this month, Old Dominion Retriever Club, I expect to have a good time and learn more about this type of tests. Its a double senior! I like AKC tests, but I think I would enjoy NAHRA too. Look forward to the event!


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Byron Musick said:


> "First and Flammable", just could not resist!


It's irresistible.


> ...I think I would enjoy NAHRA too. Look forward to the event!


It's a fun game, but not as good as real hunting.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

> Got a link?


To Copper State HRC http://www.copperstatehrc.org/tiki-index.php

If you go to the NAHRA calendar (down from the homepage http://nahranews.org/) and work your way over to Dec. (there's contact info to the club's NAHRA Rep.)

AND good to see/hear ya Chris. HPW


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Back in 1992 I was having trouble with my new pup in following Richard Wolter's book verbatum, Waterdog worked perfectly on my first Golden in 1979, but this dog was different. I was driving my wife nuts, so she told me to look up Wolters phone number in NY and give him a call, which I did. I can't believe he gave me the time of day, but he was very nice, told me he had no way of knowing if my dog was good or not, but gave me very good advice, to #1 find some amateur trainers in my area and #2 join NAHRA.

That first dog Kimo thrived in NAHRA earning his Started and Intermediate titles in six straight passes (back then you only needed two started to get that title). Then mostly due to what was available close to home we switched to AKC where Kimo earned his JH, SH and MH titles. I could tell that Kimo much prefered NAHRA to AKC, he seemed to perceive AKC HT as contrived where the NAHRA test were more real. After Kimo we got into AKC field trials which are a completly different level in difficulty, but for a couple years recently I got involved with a new local NAHRA club and ran my FT dogs in the one NAHRA FT we ran in the summer. It was a blast for me and the dogs. I'm glad I missed out on the rubbergate issue, the test I ran in 2007-8 were just like the ones I ran back in the early 90s.

John


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

Ok, perhaps I miss quoted the name of the ship, but I hope you get my drift....

John glad to hear you had fun, I know I am glad that I have learned about that "stuff" as history as well....



Funny how you said about the dogs knowing the difference. It is amazing how much they interpret, probably far more then we know. The dogs that impress me are the ones that can run the different venues with different rules. There was a dog running NAHRA two summers ago that ran a lot of Gun Dog challenges and was number one int eh country at that game, the fact that they could sprint through a field one day with no regard to being steady, then the next weekend he knew to stay closer and stay steady.....amazing what they can learn.....


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