# Pulling and Choke Chains



## Wolfatomic (Nov 23, 2014)

Does anyone have video links or advice on how to use a choke chain to help my almost 6 month old lab to stop pulling?

Heel is going alright but I would like to take her for walks since I live in a suburban neighborhood. She will pull very very hard with her buckle collar and I pull her back but nothing she doesn't care. I don't want to miss use the choke chain and I figure many people here have solved or lessened this type of problem. I've looked on other websites but most don't have articles on puppies and most of them don't advise using chokes on a pup like her.

Since I wouldn't be with her for about a month I'm boarding her with a local retriever trainer to further her training and hopefully start formal training but until then if like to enjoy my walks with her!


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

These links may help with your issue. 

*Use of the Prong Collar (link)*

*Leerburg (info link)*


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

http://www.petsafe.net/gentleleader


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Throw away your choke collar and teach your dog to heel using the prong collar as Jim has shown. Learn how to use the prong collar and once the dog has learned to heel you can go back to just the flat collar. Once taught properly my dogs don't need a collar or leash at all


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## Good Dogs (Nov 1, 2005)

Pulling is a natural action/reaction phenomenon. You pull, she pulls back. It's not unusual, but certainly undesirable, for mature dogs to pull on leash, but walk tractably at heel off-leash. There are a number of videos, including those above, that demonstrate basic obedience, starting with walking at heel. For now, stop pulling. Teach pup to not pull by giving a sharp and firm jerk backwards on her lead. Command "NO, SIT" - she does know "sit" doesn't she? - then heel forward. As soon as she lunges or pulls, repeat. A smart swat on the rear with a heeling stick or crop will reinforce. (Don't do that in public. And don't ask how I know.) Walking at heel is fundamental and pup is certainly old enough to understand. Every thing she learns will evolve from that basic. Get that down before sending her off for formal training and save the trainer some time. She'll be more responsive to you on all future training as well. 
Good luck.


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## swampcollielover (Nov 30, 2012)

Best advice I see in these posts is to go with your pup to an obedience class, and not at the local Petco...find a trainer not working in some retail store. That being said, our trainers have always recommended *pinch collars *vs. choke chains or harnesses. All can be misused and harm the dog.
The downside on pinch collars is that traditionally, the act of putting them on the dog and getting the latch to hold properly is a challenge. My field trainer recently put me on to a lady that makes a new style pinch collar, that eliminates the difficulty of putting them on and it has no latch...you can look at them at www.lolalimited.net. They call them "Secret Power" collars...but they are a well-engineered covered pinch style collar. 
Be advised that some people do not advocate using a pinch style collar on the dog, and to their credit if not properly used, they can injure the dog’s skin and also cause behavioral problems. But, if used properly by a trained user, they are magic in helping you train the dog to heal, sit, come, etc.
*But do not use these without a trainer teaching you how to train with these collars....good luck*


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## MissSkeeter (May 17, 2013)

Wolfatomic said:


> Does anyone have video links or advice on how to use a choke chain to help my almost 6 month old lab to stop pulling?
> 
> Heel is going alright but I would like to take her for walks since I live in a suburban neighborhood. She will pull very very hard with her buckle collar and I pull her back but nothing she doesn't care. I don't want to miss use the choke chain and I figure many people here have solved or lessened this type of problem. I've looked on other websites but most don't have articles on puppies and most of them don't advise using chokes on a pup like her.
> 
> Since I wouldn't be with her for about a month I'm boarding her with a local retriever trainer to further her training and hopefully start formal training but until then if like to enjoy my walks with her!


I have biddable labs and I stopped using choke chains/pinch collars/ heeling sticks about 20 years ago.
My approach is "internal motivation" starting with backwards heeling at feeding time and gradually
transition that into field work. Just a different perspective...

Here is an example of "internal motivation" with a 12-week old puppy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbKUL1FQlts

And "internal motivation" heeling to the line in the field:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1cPpWXeFnc

Just a different perspective...and it has worked for me with my last 3 labs


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Look into a nylon puppy prong collar that is available. Also, as EdA recommended, the gentle leader. I haven't used it but many like it.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

MissSkeeter said:


> I have biddable labs and I stopped using choke chains/pinch collars/ heeling sticks about 20 years ago.
> My approach is "internal motivation" starting with backwards heeling at feeding time and gradually
> transition that into field work. Just a different perspective...
> 
> ...


Wondered what you used to get your dog to the second video. The second video doesn't really show how to lead your dog! My dogs will do that now. 

One of my Labs was trained w/out a pinch, choke (which I would never use) or collar. The other requires a little more persuasion. Just different dogs but you have to get on them so they work for you. I like Dr. Ed's idea for sidewalk walking. Most dogs remain quiet in the home but when you take them to a test or trial or even down the street they amp up quite a bit.

What ever you decide to use get some assistance at first to show you the correct way. IIMO


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## Wolfatomic (Nov 23, 2014)

swampcollielover said:


> *But do not use these without a trainer teaching you how to train with these collars....good luck*


Herein lies my problem, I don't have many trainers in my area that even use prong collars. I can only think of one that might teach but they use choke chains, not prong collars. I had my golden boarded for training there 6 months ago and when I took him to the vet they said he had problems with his trachea. Now, I don't know if this was due to the training or if it was just something he had to start with. 

I will be buying that pinch collar, I had been using it before and she wouldn't pull as much but I'd get scolded by people in the street and stores, I took off the pinch and she walked ok for a few minutes before she started yanking again.


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## Wolfatomic (Nov 23, 2014)

Good Dogs said:


> Walking at heel is fundamental and pup is certainly old enough to understand. Every thing she learns will evolve from that basic. Get that down before sending her off for formal training and save the trainer some time. She'll be more responsive to you on all future training as well.
> Good luck.


Her heel is not that bad, she still needs reminders here and there especially with the automatic sit. I can get her to heel for quite a while in my neighborhood and backyard but it's a constant reminder of saying "heel". Any distractions and she will ignore me and go nuts.

During my walks should I only jerk back and say sit when she pulls, should I be saying heel as well?

Should I expect her to always be in heel on my walks? Should I use a certain type of collar when I jerk her back or just her normal buckle collar? Sorry for so many questions I just want to fully understand.


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## Wolfatomic (Nov 23, 2014)

MissSkeeter said:


> I have biddable labs and I stopped using choke chains/pinch collars/ heeling sticks about 20 years ago.
> My approach is "internal motivation" starting with backwards heeling at feeding time and gradually
> transition that into field work.


I have actually done this with her and as soon as I say heel at feeding time she throws herself into position waiting for the release, I can move back and forth and she with stick with me. How did you transition this into the field?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I can recommend a good trainer over in Yerington that can help. PM me if you want his contact info.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

These two videos are excellent.









*Prong Collar (Part I)* 

*Prong Collar (Part II)*


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## MissSkeeter (May 17, 2013)

Wolfatomic said:


> I have actually done this with her and as soon as I say heel at feeding time she throws herself into position waiting for the release, I can move back and forth and she with stick with me. How did you transition this into the field?


To transition into the field,I teach them that if they heel properly, they are rewarded with the retrieve.
Backwards healing just before a mark is thrown, the dogs must come to correct heel position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1cPpWXeFnc

I sometimes run this drill with both my labs, and 2 throwers. If both heel correctly, both get the retrieve.
Otherwise, the lab that heeled correctly gets both retrieves. I think this drill and concept works best with biddable dogs,
and may not work well with "fire-breathers"


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## Good Dogs (Nov 1, 2005)

Wolfatomic said:


> Her heel is not that bad, she still needs reminders here and there especially with the automatic sit. I can get her to heel for quite a while in my neighborhood and backyard but it's a constant reminder of saying "heel". Any distractions and she will ignore me and go nuts.
> 
> During my walks should I only jerk back and say sit when she pulls, should I be saying heel as well?
> 
> Should I expect her to always be in heel on my walks? Should I use a certain type of collar when I jerk her back or just her normal buckle collar? Sorry for so many questions I just want to fully understand.



Well, sounds like she knows the command, just not that it's the only acceptable behavior. I like the command "heel" as the command to start walking. It's also the cue to get into the proper position. 
Whether you use a choke, prong, pinch or slip lead is less important than how you use it. The collar must be fitted high on the pups neck, right below the jaw. That's where you have the most leverage and where the pup is most sensitive. And yes, you can bruise the trachea if the collar is too low and gets jerked hard. It should never be fitted around the trachea.
What you want to achieve is pup understanding when she must be at heel and when, on your release command, she can free lance. But pulling on the lead is never acceptable. 
I agree with the suggestion that you and pup enroll in a good basic obedience class. Watching videos or weeding through chat boards is ok, but, esp for a first timer, good hands on instruction is invaluable.


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## Ikanizer (Jul 22, 2013)

Try running the leash from your dog's collar down between her front legs so when the leash goes tight it pulls her head down and belly up. My 3 yr old quit pulling immediately. He heals nicely without the leash but going on neighborhood walks I cannot trust him with all the pet dog distractions.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Wolfatomic said:


> Herein lies my problem, I don't have many trainers in my area that even use prong collars. I can only think of one that might teach but they use choke chains, not prong collars. I had my golden boarded for training there 6 months ago and when I took him to the vet they said he had problems with his trachea. Now, I don't know if this was due to the training or if it was just something he had to start with.
> 
> I will be buying that pinch collar, I had been using it before and she wouldn't pull as much but I'd get scolded by people in the street and stores, I took off the pinch and she walked ok for a few minutes before she started yanking again.


There is a cover for the pinch collar that you can buy. It makes it less noticeable.
Keep the pinch snug and high up on the neck so it won't fall down lower. Also I like to have the swivel ring at the side of the neck. Corrections are not like a chain choke. If you make it snug, lots of corrections are almost like self corrections.

Take a look at the Leerburg website.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

I like this method (using a prong) to first get the dog to pay attention to the handler on leash: http://connectwithyourk9.com/conversational-leash-work/ It's a long video, but well worth the look.


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## Wolfatomic (Nov 23, 2014)

Thank you so much for the info! I'll be working with her and doing research for trainers before sending her off. I'll post updates in a few weeks!


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

I don't have any ax to grind... but I have noticed that Mike Lardy uses a choke collar on the dogs doing basic Obedience in TRT.


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## Henlee (Feb 10, 2013)

I have trained this a couple of times and I think I have a fairly soft method that seems to work and is quite simple. When I take my dog out for a walk and he starts to pull I first slow down as the leash begins to tighten and then stop as soon as he pulls. If need be I set my feet and make sure he can not move an inch when he is pulling. in the dogs I have tried this with they have not tried to pull after they see I am stopped and not going anywhere. As soon as the leash gets slack in it I then start to walk again. I try to remain as consistent as I can to this. The learned lesson is that a slack leash allows the dog to move forward again. Most dogs seem to get it very quick. There is no snapping of the leash and all the pressure is applied by the dog in regards to neck injury. I hope this helps.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

The pinch/prong collar is nice because the dog self-corrects, timing and intensity.

"Choke' collars are very effective training tools but most people don't know how to size them or use them correctly. To fit properly they should sit right behind the dogs head. Most used are too big and slide down the neck where a dog has more muscle and it takes more effort to give a proper correction. Link size on the chain also is important. The smaller the link size the bigger the correction. Think of someone poking you with a needle vs their finger.

When you use the correct size collar in the correct position it is very easy to give a proper correct with a 'pop' of the lead. When a dog gets a proper correction it will not pull or tug on the lead.

Tom


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## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

I know of dog groomers who are anti-e-collar but use prong collars for "self control" 
John


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Henlee said:


> I have trained this a couple of times and I think I have a fairly soft method that seems to work and is quite simple. When I take my dog out for a walk and he starts to pull I first slow down as the leash begins to tighten and then stop as soon as he pulls. If need be I set my feet and make sure he can not move an inch when he is pulling. in the dogs I have tried this with they have not tried to pull after they see I am stopped and not going anywhere. As soon as the leash gets slack in it I then start to walk again. I try to remain as consistent as I can to this. The learned lesson is that a slack leash allows the dog to move forward again. Most dogs seem to get it very quick. There is no snapping of the leash and all the pressure is applied by the dog in regards to neck injury. I hope this helps.


If you look at the video I posted above, this is really what it's all about. That was a rescue dog in the video who had no training.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

1tulip said:


> I don't have any ax to grind... but I have noticed that Mike Lardy uses a choke collar on the dogs doing basic Obedience in TRT.


So is it the teacher or the tool?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

eda said:


> so is it the teacher or the tool?


^^^^ :mrgreen: nailed it.


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## TBell (Apr 1, 2004)

Henlee said:


> I have trained this a couple of times and I think I have a fairly soft method that seems to work and is quite simple. When I take my dog out for a walk and *he starts to pull I first slow down as the leash begins to tighten and then stop as soon as he pulls. If need be I set my feet and make sure he can not move an inch when he is pulling*. in the dogs I have tried this with they have not tried to pull after they see I am stopped and not going anywhere. *As soon as the leash gets slack in it I then start to walk again*. I try to *remain as consistent as I can* to this. The learned lesson is that a slack leash allows the dog to move forward again. *Most dogs seem to get it very quick*. There is no snapping of the leash and all the pressure is applied by the dog in regards to neck injury. I hope this helps.



x2 If the pup is pulling, stop! No chokes, pinch collars, etc. needed.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

_"There is no snapping of the leash and all the pressure is applied by the dog in regards to neck injury."_

Frankly, I'd rather be the one in charge of "regards to neck injury"....not the dog. Then again, when training a retriever there many different "yellow brick roads".


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## TBell (Apr 1, 2004)

As long as other end of leash is in your hand, you are in charge. You are simply stopping any forward movement when the pup is pulling. Once pup stops pulling against you, proceed. If pup pulls again, stop. Simple and very understandable by dog.....black and white.

Pups catches on fairly quickly that he will only get to go at your pace, otherwise, everything comes to a halt. No fancy choke, pinch, or e-collar needed, simply patience.


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## JDogger (Feb 2, 2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXlcSgwG2CM


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