# New US Rules for Importing Dogs



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Have any of you guys seen this? 

http://www.cdc.gov/animalimportation/dogs.html 

A rule change that requires ALL dogs coming into the US to be vaccinated for rabies, which means that the youngest a dog can be imported is 4 months old (minimum 3 months of age for the rabies vx and then apparently a one month buffer). 

I called and apparently this is effective immediately?! although it was just posted to the CDC website yesterday. A real bummer for my US puppy buyers who already had flights booked to come and get their 8 week old puppies next month.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Okay - found this -effective August 9, 2014. http://www.cdc.gov/animalimportatio...onfinement-agreements.html#.U8hJlDxhsAo.email


----------



## chassergold (Sep 2, 2012)

What if you drive to the border? They won't let you pass through with an 8 week old?


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

No. The rules have changed and they are requiring all dogs to be vaccinated with rabies, and have a 30 day waiting period, prior to entering the US, regardless of how they are transported. They suggest that there is an exemption process but I heard back from one of my puppy buyers this morning that they told her no to that, instead saying that she should plan to get her puppy at 4 months of age rather than 8 weeks (since the vaccine can not be administered prior to 3 months of age). Of course that complicates things further since a 4 month old lab pup can't fit under the seat of a plane and not every buyer is interested in paying for boarding or training on a puppy that they wanted to work with from scratch. 

This is a real bummer for buyers who were hoping to get a Canadian bred puppy, and for us Canadian breeders who regularly sell to US clients.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

More government idiocy.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Of all the things to be frantically regulating... oh the risk of the 8 week old rabid pup! Good grief.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

We can stop illegal puppies from crossing the borders. No treats for those pups without proper shots! People without proper docs? No problem... Come on in.


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

What a nightmare. Glad I smuggled my pup in five years ago, eh.


----------



## Paul Brown (Sep 1, 2011)

My wife has been talking to the CDC and their quarantine center in Minneapolis about this. The official effective date of this change is August 11,2014. (There were two different dates posted). The CDC will issue a mass notice of this change. Hope this helps.


----------



## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

Erin Lynes said:


> Of all the things to be frantically regulating... oh the risk of the 8 week old rabid pup! Good grief.


soda pop out the nose.....
thanks


----------



## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

huntinman said:


> We can stop illegal puppies from crossing the borders. No treats for those pups without proper shots! People without proper docs? No problem... Come on in.


The best humor has it's roots in the truth...
spot on

of course the reason is 8 week old illegal pups can't vote democratic after amnesty.


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

I am glad that the CDC, which can't seem to help itself from shipping live anthrax and flesh eating bacteria around via pony express, at least is able to do something about the scourge of rabid puppies from Canada.











What would Brian Boitano do?


----------



## bassfan (Aug 30, 2011)

Well I just sent a deposit to Canada last week, so I guess I will lose it. I cant hold the breeder responsible he didnt know, I trust him when I asked if there were rules about shipping a pup over the border and he said just the clearances. I really dont want to start with a 4 month old pup so the search begins again

Steve


----------



## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

bassfan said:


> Well I just sent a deposit to Canada last week, so I guess I will lose it. I cant hold the breeder responsible he didnt know, I trust him when I asked if there were rules about shipping a pup over the border and he said just the clearances. I really dont want to start with a 4 month old pup so the search begins again
> 
> Steve



AFTER I pick up Ben I can give you a reference.....


----------



## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

Erin Lynes said:


> Of all the things to be frantically regulating... oh the risk of the 8 week old rabid pup! Good grief.


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Where the heck is the AKC? Don't they realize many of these dogs are cross registered? Would seem to me that they would have at least ONE Lobbyist with enough sense to get to the right people in DC...


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

bassfan said:


> Well I just sent a deposit to Canada last week, so I guess I will lose it. I cant hold the breeder responsible he didnt know, I trust him when I asked if there were rules about shipping a pup over the border and he said just the clearances. I really dont want to start with a 4 month old pup so the search begins again
> 
> Steve


STEVE- don't give up yet- follow the link I provided and ask about an exemption. One of my puppy people did this and at first received a 'no' reply, and then a few hours later received a reply that said yes she COULD bring her unvaccinated 8 week old puppy in if she signed a confinement agreement (which means she has to keep the puppy confined to her home until vaccinated basically). Exhaust this route, and if it doesn't work, I'm sure your breeder will return your deposit as it's not your fault the rules have changed!


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Steve.....

No worries I will re-fund everyone's deposits if I cant make this happen

What a shame this will be if this law holds.....WOW!

I can't imagine how many people on both sides of the border this will effect......

Scott


----------



## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

There has to be a way around this. If pushed, it seems like they should accept something along these lines: Sire and Dam have proof of vaccination, pups are born into a "Quarantine" situation at the breeders facility and are "Quarantined" for 8 weeks, then will be "Quarantined" at new owners home for 8 weeks.

Wonder what inspired this change? There has to be a way to find an exception for responsible breeders shipping pups. These aren't mongrels pups pulled off the streets of third world countries with non vaccinated parents.


----------



## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Are you sure this is new? When I imported a pup 6 months ago, the CDC had the same requirement, but also listed an exemption for pups too young to have the vaccine. You had to sign a form saying you would quarantine the pup until the vaccine was given.


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

This is new law that the pup must have it's Rabie shot and cant be younger then 4 months old to cross any US border........This changed as of July 16 2014


----------



## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

So Erin, your buyer found a way around it?


----------



## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

doublehaul said:


> i am glad that the cdc, which can't seem to help itself from shipping live anthrax and flesh eating bacteria around via pony express, at least is able to do something about the scourge of rabid puppies from canada.
> 
> 
> View attachment 19421
> ...


omg!!! Lmao!!!


----------



## The Snows (Jul 19, 2004)

Jennifer Henion said:


> Are you sure this is new? When I imported a pup 6 months ago, the CDC had the same requirement, but also listed an exemption for pups too young to have the vaccine. You had to sign a form saying you would quarantine the pup until the vaccine was given.


Agree that this is not new as we had a potential puppy buyer mention this early in 2013. They were told they could get an exemption (seemed to be specific to the state of California). We were not able to supply them with the puppy they were looking for, so to be honest I totally forgot about it.


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

The Rabie part is definitely new........


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

What is new is the part that 8 week old puppies aren't just allowed in because they are 'too young for rabies vaccination' anymore, which has always been the case previously, and the confinement agreement was not universally required (I was required to submit it only once out of a dozen or more puppies that have gone to US homes, so seemed to be at the will of the agent). Now when you inquire they say 'this is not a new ruling' - but it really is a significant change to the previous rule, since you can not just show up at the border and wait to see if you'll get asked to sign the confinement agreement or not. You now should expect that you will be turned away at the border if you have an unvaccinated dog, regardless of age, unless you have been pre-approved for the confinement agreement. This was posted on the CDC website on July 16th but is going into effect on August 9th. http://www.cdc.gov/animalimportatio...onfinement-agreements.html#.U8hJlDxhsAo.email

On this page they have a link where one can write to plead their case for an exemption. Basically, this just means that if the CDC agrees that the reasons for requesting are compelling, instead of waiting until the puppy is 4 months old to import it, the person applying may bring in the unvaccinated puppy and will sign a legal document upon importation that they will keep the puppy confined until 30 days after it's rabies vaccination (which means it will need to be confined in their home until 4 months of age- with warning of criminal proceedings if they fail to follow the confinement order). From what I've gathered in my last 24 hours of frantic research, this isn't something they are going to allow just for convenience sake, nor 'on the spot', and also isn't exactly the most ideal way to raise a puppy if even one is allowed. One of my buyers inquired and was initially told no and then a few hours later received approval to sign the confinement agreement upon her arrival at US customs with the puppy. They actually will not even send her a copy of the agreement in advance, she has had to make an appointment at customs to sign it before she can be allowed into the US with the puppy. The other buyer was told no and has not yet received any sort of change of heart notification


----------



## No Drive (Jul 9, 2014)

I could care less if they close the boarder. The way Canadian government treats Americans could care less if US shuts the boarder off. Anyone with even as much as a 30 year old convictions for drunk driving stopped and not allowed into the country. Guns laws that are rediculous and now e-collar banning! Got plenty of top notch US bred dogs no need for anyone to bring a dog in from their. JMO


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

No Drive said:


> I could care less if they close the boarder. The way Canadian government treats Americans could care less if US shuts the boarder off. Anyone with even as much as a 30 year old convictions for drunk driving stopped and not allowed into the country. Guns laws that are rediculous and now e-collar banning! Got plenty of top notch US bred dogs no need for anyone to bring a dog in from their. JMO


I think you may still be drunk.


----------



## bassfan (Aug 30, 2011)

Scott Anderson from Razor labs called and also posted on here that he would refund my deposit. I feel sorry for him if this thing sticks. 

No Drive its their country at least they follow their laws unlike our admin, you are correct about alot of good dogs here but I wanted a pup from this breeding and if it doesnt happen it will be very disapointing hopfully it will work out. Quarantine in the house for 60-90 days wont be good for socializing the young fellow, either way this is blows on alot of different levels

Thanks Scott we will wait to hear from you

Steve


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

After reading Erin's post its seeming like this is going to be a sad ending.......I guess we can't even send pups to the US for Training.....at least not pup training

Pretty sad day I must say.......


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

OMG!.......You have to be kidding



No Drive said:


> I could care less if they close the boarder. The way Canadian government treats Americans could care less if US shuts the boarder off. Anyone with even as much as a 30 year old convictions for drunk driving stopped and not allowed into the country. Guns laws that are rediculous and now e-collar banning! Got plenty of top notch US bred dogs no need for anyone to bring a dog in from their. JMO


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

No Drive said:


> I could care less if they close the boarder. The way Canadian government treats Americans could care less if US shuts the boarder off. Anyone with even as much as a 30 year old convictions for drunk driving stopped and not allowed into the country. Guns laws that are rediculous and now e-collar banning! Got plenty of top notch US bred dogs no need for anyone to bring a dog in from their. JMO


I am from Canada and I do alot of cross border. I don't want to ever see the border shut. I know some laws appear ridiculous but a lot has changed over the years. Anyone from Canada can't get into your country if they have a conviction either. So the laws are interesting both ways. Keep the border open.  And I don't think I can just bring a firearm into your country without talking to a specific department. I agree Ecollar banning is ridiculous but I don't think you can sell collars is Calif??? Correct me if I am wrong. Laws work in mysterious ways as they don't appear to have much common sense. But guess who makes them and they (the politicians) don't have much common sense! IMHO


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Hey you guys make sure you check it out for yourselves, on this end we have been getting different answers depending on who answers the phone- and Steve it doesn't hurt to ask for an exemption before you give up hope (all you have to do is send an email pleading your case- I'd make reference to the fact that your puppy purchase was planned in advance, you have travel plans booked, and that training for your particular dog is required to start at 8 weeks). 

There is so much confusion that I am still hinging on the hope that this can't possibly be correct...

Scott I agree that this is so frustrating and disheartening, please if any of you guys learns something different than what I have posted, let me know. 



This is the generic email response I got to my inquiry about alternatives (despite the fact that they say this is not new, the changes essentially make it 'new', and if it's not new why does it have an effective date in August and not immediately?!) 

Thank you for your inquiry to CDC-INFO. Your request for information on the new regulations on dog importation was forwarded to subject-matter experts at the appropriate CDC division. We hope you find their response helpful.

CDC's dog importation regulations require that dogs be fully immunized against rabies before being imported into the United States. The rabies vaccination must be administered no earlier than 12 weeks of age and must have been administered at least 30 days before arrival at a U.S. port of entry. Therefore, the youngest that a puppy may be imported to the United States is 4 months of age.

CDC's requirements are not new and have been in place for many years. CDC recently published Issuance and Enforcement Guidance for Dog Confinement Agreements (http://www.cdc.gov/animalimportatio...ment-guidance-dog-confinement-agreements.html) that clarified the circumstances under which inadequately immunized dogs may be imported to the United States, provided that the importers of the dogs agree to confine the dogs until they are fully immunized. These confinement agreements are only intended to be used under limited circumstances where the importer of the dogs has no alternative to delay importing the dogs until they are fully immunized as required by CDC regulations.

The Issuance and Enforcement Guidance is effective on August 11, 2014. There are no blanket exemptions being given for importers of dogs purchased before the publication of the Issuance and Enforcement Guidance. CDC recommends that importers who have already purchased dogs make arrangements to delay the import of their dogs until the dogs are fully immunized against rabies. However, individual importers may contact CDC at [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> to discuss their specific circumstances.

Links to nonfederal organizations are provided as a service. Links are not an endorsement of these organizations or their programs by CDC or the federal government. CDC is not responsible for the content of organization websites found at these links.

Thank you for contacting CDC-INFO. For more information, please call 1-800-CDC-INFO (800-232-4636), visit www.cdc.gov and click on “Contact CDC-INFO,” or go to www.cdc.gov/info. This e-mail is being sent from an unmonitored mailbox and CDC-INFO will not respond. If you have questions or comments, please send them via our online form at www.cdc.gov/info.

CDC-INFO is a service of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). This service is provided by Verizon and its subcontractors under the Networx Universal contract to CDC and ATSDR.


----------



## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Just a note, for those that are just talking about Canada and the border....it's not. It's all countries. Apparently it is in response to dogs imported from Russia and Afghanistan with rabies according to a vet friend.

Sue


----------



## GBUSMCR (Oct 5, 2004)

Funny that the US is a country considered NOT free of rabies in the first place.


----------



## pupaloo (Jan 6, 2006)

There is a street puppy express from Mexico....I would imagine it is intended to curb that more than responsibly bred working dogs....


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

GBUSMCR said:


> Funny that the US is a country considered NOT free of rabies in the first place.


Why would it be? There is rabies in wild animals such as raccoons, coyotes etc... Frequently... Be easy enough for a dog to get it if it wasn't vaccinated.


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree Bill......But in a 7 week old puppy come on



huntinman said:


> Why would it be? There is rabies in wild animals such as raccoons, coyotes etc... Frequently... Be easy enough for a dog to get it if it wasn't vaccinated.


----------



## bloodorange (May 27, 2011)

By reading the links above I don't think this applies to dogs imported from rabies free countries. I think you have to sign an agreement that you will get the dog vaccinated and confine it for 30 days.


----------



## bassfan (Aug 30, 2011)

why dont we send them to the southern border and hand them out to the kids to bring in


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Razor Labs said:


> I agree Bill......But in a 7 week old puppy come on


I know... But we are talking about govt doofuses. Not defending... That kind of stuff irritates the hell out of me.


----------



## caesarlabrador (Jun 26, 2006)

Wow! This seems so crazy to me. Have shipped puppies from Canada into the USA for years and have not had any issues. Most don't even ask to see the health certificate and no one has ever been asked to sign a confinement agreement. So for them to say the rule changes are not new is crazy in my opinion. It is hard enough to get an airline in Canada that flies to the USA to ship a puppy with all the temperature restrictions, cargo hours, and crate size limits for aircrafts etc that it will make it near impossible to ship a 4 month old puppy who is larger and would require a larger crate. Not to mention the fact that most puppy buyers want a young puppy and most breeders would have to charge a lot more to care for a pup until it is 4 months old and to start training. Erin, does this also apply to importing a dog to Canada? Hope it works out for your puppy buyers. Glad that I shipped a puppy last week to the USA and don't have to deal with that in the immediate future.


----------



## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi Erin,

Sounds like you have done more research than I have in the past few days and have a lot of experience exporting pups. And maybe I'm reading your response and the CDC info incorrectly, but when I imported my pup in January from England, I too had to sign the documents regarding the confinement at the customs office at the airport. It was something I expected to do, because my export agent warned me I would. 

As for CDC coming to a buyer's house to make sure they're confining the pup, In my view, the likelihood is highly unlikely. They may go inspect a facility importing a bunch of dogs from Mexico or Iraq, but no way they'll spend staff time on someone importing a nice pure bred lab pup from Canada.

I sincerely hope your buyers don't get denied permission to import, but I can't imagine that. Please keep us updated on how it goes for your current litter.


----------



## No Drive (Jul 9, 2014)

Razor Labs said:


> OMG!.......You have to be kidding



Not at all, makes no difference to me what so ever. JMHO Those that have said " he must still be drunk" The good book says those without sin cast the first stone. I am sure none of you have ever driven with a drink or two in ya, not a one of ya. If ya have, then the difference between those who cannot cross the border and those who can is if you got caught. One drunk driving in your lifetime no entrance to Canada period.

Thus don't care if the border there is closed or not. My statement t stands, I think there are plenty of top notch field trial bred dogs here, I have no need for Canadian blood in my lines. Not saying they don't have good dogs just saying got plenty of them here to choose from. Nick of Time Ranger has done plenty good for me!


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Its very interesting that you are basing your opinion around drinking........Hmmh



No Drive said:


> Not at all, makes no difference to me what so ever. JMHO Those that have said " he must still be drunk" The good book says those without sin cast the first stone. I am sure none of you have ever driven with a drink or two in ya, not a one of ya. If ya have, then the difference between those who cannot cross the border and those who can is if you got caught. One drunk driving in your lifetime no entrance to Canada period.
> 
> Thus don't care if the border there is closed or not. My statement t stands, I think there are plenty of top notch field trial bred dogs here, I have no need for Canadian blood in my lines. Not saying they don't have good dogs just saying got plenty of them here to choose from. Nick of Time Ranger has done plenty good for me!


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

No Drive said:


> Not at all, makes no difference to me what so ever. JMHO Those that have said " he must still be drunk" The good book says those without sin cast the first stone. I am sure none of you have ever driven with a drink or two in ya, not a one of ya. If ya have, then the difference between those who cannot cross the border and those who can is if you got caught. One drunk driving in your lifetime no entrance to Canada period.
> 
> Thus don't care if the border there is closed or not. My statement t stands, I think there are plenty of top notch field trial bred dogs here, I have no need for Canadian blood in my lines. Not saying they don't have good dogs just saying got plenty of them here to choose from. Nick of Time Ranger has done plenty good for me!


This type of post really doesn't deserve response but.....

It is is exactly the same law for Canadians entering the U.S no matter how long ago the offense was. 

As for not "needing" Canadian blood in your FT lines you might want to rethink that one. Lean Mac comes to mind along with a host of other notables. Hard to say where some "so called" US blood lines would be without some of these imports.

Sorry you got denied entry at the border for an offense that occurred so long ago. I agree that law is ridiculous however there are literally tens of thousands of citizens from other countries who have had a lifetime ban from entry into the U.S. for the same thing. It's the same for just about every other so called "civilized" country in the world.

Life's not fair. Get over it and move on.


----------



## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

I think all lab lines got imported at some point....
i don't recall native Americans or pilgrims running hunt tests or bird hunting with them.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Jen- Maybe that was previously a rule for puppies coming from England or other countries, I'm not sure, have no experience with that- but it was definitely not a requirement for puppies coming from Canada. The fact that their web page has been updated to specifically say that importers should expect to bring their puppy in no sooner than 4 months of age is a serious change from any previous wording and we definitely didn't need to be requesting any permission for anything in advance. 

Our one puppy who did have to undergo the confinement agreement (2012) DID get a visit from their local animal control officer. This was just a regular dog owner, not a breeder, kennel, pro trainer, etc... I think the purpose of these agreements being handled differently- ie available by discriminate application only- is so that when they are signed at the border, they will be then issued to a local enforcement agency. At least- why even bother with all this if a certain percentage aren't being checked on?

Danielle, so far I don't see any such changes coming from the other direction, although we Canadians do have new rules about 'commercially' imported dogs which technically applies to any dog being purchased for breeding or exhibiting. However unless your crossing the border with the puppy, and it's only one at a time, it may not be something that they will catch- the two pups I bought from the US in May, I applied for the import permit and did all of that stuff and it wasn't super hard, just more expensive and it's something that needs to be applied for 30 days in advance (but I had to go down to Seattle to get them and didn't want to take any chances- they really seemed confused at the port of entry so maybe they aren't really aware of this change or aren't enforcing that at all). It didn't restrict the age of the puppy at all thank goodness.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

No Drive said:


> Not at all, makes no difference to me what so ever. JMHO Those that have said " he must still be drunk" The good book says those without sin cast the first stone. I am sure none of you have ever driven with a drink or two in ya, not a one of ya. If ya have, then the difference between those who cannot cross the border and those who can is if you got caught. One drunk driving in your lifetime no entrance to Canada period.
> 
> Thus don't care if the border there is closed or not. My statement t stands, I think there are plenty of top notch field trial bred dogs here, I have no need for Canadian blood in my lines. Not saying they don't have good dogs just saying got plenty of them here to choose from. Nick of Time *Lone*Ranger has done plenty good for me!


Fixed it for you;-)


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

bloodorange said:


> By reading the links above I don't think this applies to dogs imported from rabies free countries. I think you have to sign an agreement that you will get the dog vaccinated and confine it for 30 days.


This is true. Most countries (like Canada) are not considered rabies free though the last case of canine rabies in my province occurred in 2006. 

The part you may have missed is that you don't just 'get' to sign an agreement to confine the dog- you must be 'approved' - ie have a significantly good reason to be unable to wait to import your dog until they are vaccinated. So far my puppy buyers are 50-50 on being approved for this, personally I am feeling pretty sad and frustrated for the family that was denied and told they could just wait and pick the puppy up at 4 months instead. 
Okay dude, I'll just go put that one back on the shelf for now....


----------



## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

Not great for breeders, but if as a buyer you get a 4 month old pup that has been well socialized by the breeder it is fantastic. So as a breeder you just charge extra for all the training and socialization you give... make it a win , win, for both parties.


----------



## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

labguy said:


> This type of post really doesn't deserve response but.....
> 
> It is is exactly the same law for Canadians entering the U.S no matter how long ago the offense was.
> 
> ...


According to U.S Customs a single DUI with prevent a U.S citizen from entering Canada, while a Canadian can enter the U.S, with a DUI.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/402/~/entering-the-u.s.-and-canada-with-dui-offenses


----------



## bloodorange (May 27, 2011)

Erin, I read that you must be approved but based on the below I wouldn't think it would be a problem getting approved for bringing a pup over from a rabies free country. 


Importation of Unvaccinated Dogs
Importation of unvaccinated dogs is allowed on a limited basis. Unvaccinated dogs may be imported only if they are coming from a rabies-free country (see below) or if they are being imported for use in scientific research where rabies vaccination would interfere with that research. Questions about importing unvaccinated dogs may be directed to CDC at [email protected].


Importation of Dogs from Rabies-free Countries
Unvaccinated dogs may be imported without a requirement for proof of rabies vaccination if they have lived in a country that is considered free of rabies for a minimum of 6 months or since birth.

You are correct in saying that you have to have permission from the CDC but with the above I would think you would be ok.


----------



## Golden6824 (Mar 28, 2010)

Keep in mind that in order to get the pup at 4 months, that means getting the vaccination at 12 weeks. I personally wait as long as I can for rabies vac. Never for a 12 week pup.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

blood orange- Canada is not considered rabies free. There is a list of 'rabies-free' countries on that link. I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem to get a puppy from one of those countries but I can only speak by my experience so far that it is not proving easy for people to import a puppy from Canada. I have requested more information and specifically inquired to find out if there is anyway a breeder could potentially expediate the process (perhaps by providing permanent ID and a veterinary confirmation that the puppy was born to a currently vaccinated mother?) I don't know, kinda grasping at straws here.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Golden6824- that is a valid point too, not really wild about the idea of vaccinating for rabies at 3 months myself.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

mngundog said:


> According to U.S Customs a single DUI with prevent a U.S citizen from entering Canada, while a Canadian can enter the U.S, with a DUI.
> https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/402/~/entering-the-u.s.-and-canada-with-dui-offenses


Uh...anyone can enter the US... Just send your kids first.


----------



## bloodorange (May 27, 2011)

Erin, it's a crazy regulation and I hope all works out for your clients. Keep us up to date on what you learn from the CDC.


----------



## Jamee Strange (Jul 24, 2010)

Here's a thought/question....does this new law apply to pups shipped INTO Canada, or is it just one way? Just curious if this is a double edged sword or just one sided..


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Just applies to pups coming into the US.......We just stop people coming into Canada that have DUI charges...... 




Jamee Strange said:


> Here's a thought/question....does this new law apply to pups shipped INTO Canada, or is it just one way? Just curious if this is a double edged sword or just one sided..


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

If you go up to Canada for a trial or test with a pup unvaccinated for rabies along for the ride, I wonder if the pup has to have the rabies shot and then stay in Canada until they are 4 months old or 30 days after the rabies shot if older than 4 months by then or whether that would be a basis for an exemption. Not all states in the U.S. require a rabies shot that early.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Brutal for Canadian breeders that have targeted US market!
Last year i did cross the US border with 8 pups to Logan Intern. Airport (Boston) and flew those all over US.
Never ad any problem with US border agent, i had sign by future owners Quarantine form, but i could see that it was getting more and more complicated.....

Personally guess i will go for B plan!


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Judy Myers said:


> If you go up to Canada for a trial or test with a pup unvaccinated for rabies along for the ride, I wonder if the pup has to have the rabies shot and then stay in Canada until they are 4 months old or 30 days after the rabies shot if older than 4 months by then or whether that would be a basis for an exemption. Not all states in the U.S. require a rabies shot that early.


That would be worth looking into. But, since you are not 'importing' the puppy and it originated in the US, provided you could prove that, I sure would hope that is not something that would apply. 

Alain, you have been lucky if you've been able to cross the border with 8 puppies without hassle. I had a few hassle-free trips like that to ship/deliver pups in the US and then started getting tagged as 'commercial' and had to do formal entry permits to be able to take my 'goods for sale' (puppies) into the US. I had already changed my own policy so that buyers would just come and get their own dog here in Canada to avoid that problem, but this new rule has made even that a huge concern.... can't win!!!


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

I know, it look like it was my lucky day but i was very well prepare but still got lucky i know!
I have the feeling i meant the right guy, @ the right time the right day, it was the senior agent and he saw very fast that i knew what i needed to cross the border.
I stay 10 minutes inside and then gone for the airport......

Not sure i will keep pups up to 4 months age!
They need to go to there home, get away of the litter, socialize properly and get house broken........me doing this properly on a 8- 10 pups litters...........OUF!!!!


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Judy Myers said:


> If you go up to Canada for a trial or test with a pup unvaccinated for rabies along for the ride, I wonder if the pup has to have the rabies shot and then stay in Canada until they are 4 months old or 30 days after the rabies shot if older than 4 months by then or whether that would be a basis for an exemption. Not all states in the U.S. require a rabies shot that early.


Since the rule will be interpreted by US Customs inspectors at the bottom of the food chain, I wouldn't put too much stock in your subtle interpretation. Chances are, if the pup hasn't had a rabies shot or had one less than 30 days before your crossing into the US, the pup would be stopped and a war of words would ensue. You'd lose ... a whale of a lot of time at the very least.


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Erin Lynes said:


> That would be worth looking into. But, since you are not 'importing' the puppy and it originated in the US, provided you could prove that, I sure would hope that is not something that would apply.


When ever you transport anything across the border, you are importing it, regardless of it's origin, or how it was acquired. Especially where Departments of Agriculture are concerned.
You would be amazed with the trouble that ensues at the border, simply because of a missed exit on the highway.


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree, Eric. I am fairly certain the rule would apply and there would be a hassle at the border. I was only asking the question rhetorically. I don't currently have a pup. But when I picked up Trek in Canada in 2007, I planned to trial my other dog for awhile in Canada which put Trek beyond the 12 weeks. I did not want to give him a rabies shot any earlier than 5 months so I just wandered around Canada in my motorhome running trials, attending seminars, etc., until he was 6 months (vaccination at 5 months plus the 30 days after the vaccination to make him legal). With Dart in 2012, I was crossing from Canada to the U.S. with a 7 1/2 week old puppy and they made me sign the confinement agreement. But now, who knows what would happen. If I get another Canadian puppy, maybe I'll have to plan on spending a few months in Canada again .


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Scott Adams said:


> When ever you transport anything across the border, you are importing it, regardless of it's origin, or how it was acquired. Especially where Departments of Agriculture are concerned.
> You would be amazed with the trouble that ensues at the border, simply because of a missed exit on the highway.


Thanks for the clarification Scott. My logic and border logic do not always align... so this info does help! lol


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Humor me Alain.......what is plan B 



Alain said:


> Brutal for Canadian breeders that have targeted US market!
> Last year i did cross the US border with 8 pups to Logan Intern. Airport (Boston) and flew those all over US.
> Never ad any problem with US border agent, i had sign by future owners Quarantine form, but i could see that it was getting more and more complicated.....
> 
> Personally guess i will go for B plan!


----------



## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

Alain said:


> I know, it look like it was my lucky day but i was very well prepare but still got lucky i know!
> I have the feeling i meant the right guy, @ the right time the right day, it was the senior agent and he saw very fast that i knew what i needed to cross the border.
> I stay 10 minutes inside and then gone for the airport......
> 
> ...


We must have got in just under the gun.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Scott, the good point is i know that i have to go for B plan.
The bad point is that i have to find that B plan.

There are no problem.......only solution!


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm with you pal.....if there's a will there's away 



Alain said:


> Scott, the good point is i know that i have to go for B plan.
> The bad point is that i have to find that B plan.
> 
> There are no problem.......only solution!


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

This sounds like a fight for the AKC. Hopefully common sense will prevail, but nothing will happen without a lot of noise first.
It is commonplace for government to use a solution for one issue that creates problems for people who were not an issue.
I can't remember the last time I was bitten by a rabid pup.


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Scott Adams said:


> This sounds like a fight for the AKC. Hopefully common sense will prevail, but nothing will happen without a lot of noise first.
> It is commonplace for government to use a solution for one issue that creates problems for people who were not an issue.
> I can't remember the last time I was bitten by a rabid pup.


Scott its a joke........ 

7 week old pup with rabies  Come on really

Mexico can send there street dogs into the US by the truck load and no issue......WHATEVER


----------



## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Not puppy related but re the annual rabies requirement in Canada. I dislike giving rabies vac every year so do the 3 year option. Traveling up north I have a recent 1 yr cert with and mention nada re field trials or hunting. If asked, going to a pretty boy dog show.


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Razor Labs said:


> Scott its a joke........
> 
> 7 week old pup with rabies  Come on really
> 
> Mexico can send there street dogs into the US by the truck load and no issue......WHATEVER


i was being facetious


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Scott Adams said:


> i was being facetious


I know you are......I was talking out loud about what a joke this new law is


----------



## rugerpuppy0447 (May 30, 2014)

No Drive said:


> Not at all, makes no difference to me what so ever. JMHO Those that have said " he must still be drunk" The good book says those without sin cast the first stone. I am sure none of you have ever driven with a drink or two in ya, not a one of ya. If ya have, then the difference between those who cannot cross the border and those who can is if you got caught. One drunk driving in your lifetime no entrance to Canada period.
> 
> Thus don't care if the border there is closed or not. My statement t stands, I think there are plenty of top notch field trial bred dogs here, I have no need for Canadian blood in my lines. Not saying they don't have good dogs just saying got plenty of them here to choose from. Nick of Time Ranger has done plenty good for me!


I work for the Ontario Provincial Police and people can cross the border if they are willing to go through the steps and meet the requirements to get a pardon on the offence. So never being able to go across the border is not really an honest truth


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Oh the humor continues! 
So family B, of my 2 that are trying to import puppies a few days after this goes into effect, were told on Friday that they would not be allowed to do the confinement agreement and would have to just bring the puppy home at 4 months instead. They asked for reconsideration and better explained their situation, and this morning received a reply that said this:
Good morning,

CDC is not able to provide pre-approval for entry of dogs into the United States. 

Regards,

Importation and Animal Contact Team
CDC/Division of Global Migration and Quarantine

What the hell-so they have gone from 'no' to 'we don't make such decisions'?! (or is this just a soft no?) This is coming from the same contact that did do a pre-approval for my other puppy buyer. This is all very frustrating and I called again this morning but the agents on the phone don't know anything that's not printed on the website and just told me to write to the email address for more information. She did also suggest that I contact the local quarantine office, so that is being done right now and hopefully someone who deals with this more directly will have answers. GAWD so frustrating. I am half tempted to just have these people show up at the border with the puppy to see what happens, but not sure they want to risk the expense and possibly extra heartbreak if they do get turned back.


----------



## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

In NYC for less then two hundred bucks any document can be obtained... just saying...


----------



## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

rugerpuppy0447 said:


> I work for the Ontario Provincial Police and people can cross the border if they are willing to go through the steps and meet the requirements to get a pardon on the offence. So never being able to go across the border is not really an honest truth


Then the guards at the border need to be notified of this cause they are passing along bad info. That definitely isn't the story I got when I crossed in Eureka MT. The FIRST OF TWO reasons I was informed of that we got to cross is that they wouldn't allow my girlfriend at the time to drive the ALCAN by herself. I had to pay 150 U.S. dollars and be out of the country in 7 days and to check in with the border crossing as I was exiting Canada and told to never return. I was told that if I wasn't out of the country and had not checked in with the crossing going out then I would be found and arrested. AND the OTHER REASON they told me they were allowing this is that they were considering this a "one time move".

Maybe the laws have changed since then, not sure and don't care. I haven't checked into entering Canada anymore.


----------



## rugerpuppy0447 (May 30, 2014)

This is just Canadians going over to the US (Ontario ones anyway). I dont know if the States does pardons or whatnot, but for a Canadian being denied at the bornder for a minor conviction like a DUI or something, they can go to their local PD and pick up a Pardon package, it goes through the RCMP and they pay a pretty hefty fee and in a year- year and a half they may be pardoned of an offence.


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

There is so much mis-information in this thread, it's almost unbelievable. Even for an internet forum.
Speak with an official, acting within their capacity.

http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/mobile/ctu-ctn-1-eng.html


----------



## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

rugerpuppy0447 said:


> This is just Canadians going over to the US (Ontario ones anyway). I dont know if the States does pardons or whatnot, but for a Canadian being denied at the bornder for a minor conviction like a DUI or something, they can go to their local PD and pick up a Pardon package, it goes through the RCMP and they pay a pretty hefty fee and in a year- year and a half they may be pardoned of an offence.


Aaahh ok, I apologize and took off on a tangent which still burns my ass to this day when its brought up.


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Erin Lynes said:


> Oh the humor continues!
> So family B, of my 2 that are trying to import puppies a few days after this goes into effect, were told on Friday that they would not be allowed to do the confinement agreement and would have to just bring the puppy home at 4 months instead. They asked for reconsideration and better explained their situation, and this morning received a reply that said this:
> Good morning,
> 
> ...


Erin,

Don't waste your time......

I have been back a forth with the Senior Quarantine veterinary Medical officer

The rule is the rule and it isn't going to change.....

There wont be many quarantine forms being handed out either

Canadian Breeders are done selling pups into the US unless they are 4 months and older.......this is the bottom line


----------



## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

The entire rabbis clause used to not apply to rabbis-free countries. Is THIS what has changed, of just the age?

I import 10-12 Labradors from UK each year, most are 1-4 yrs old. I have them vaccinated there just in case, but it's never necessary because UK is rabbis free. I have a lot of friends who by pups from the UK. Does this change the process for them now, also?

I do hope for all of you American/Canadian FC breeders and buyers that this changes. I hope the AKC gets involved and has this reversed.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Scott I know you are right. I am just frustrated and in denial.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Bartona500 said:


> The entire *rabbis* clause used to not apply to *rabbis-free countries*. Is THIS what has changed, of just the age?
> 
> I import 10-12 Labradors from UK each year, most are 1-4 yrs old. I have them vaccinated there just in case, but it's never necessary *because UK is rabbis free*. I have a lot of friends who by pups from the UK. Does this change the process for them now, also?
> 
> I do hope for all of you American/Canadian FC breeders and buyers that this changes. I hope the AKC gets involved and has this reversed.


Now we aren't letting Rabbi's in? It's getting rough😳. I know the current administration hasn't been that tight with Israel, but that's going a little far.😉


----------



## Huntersbest (Sep 20, 2013)

Okay folks there is obviously a disconnect here between CDC, AKC and US Boarder services. CKC has spoken with all places as well. I have queried and heard back from Border Services (spoke with them 10 minutes ago) at my port of entry (Calais Maine) and with AKC. Both have told me nothing has changed. Boarder services told me when crossing with pup to fly out of Bangor Maine I need only fill out the same two forms I always have and pay my $10.75 fee per pup and away I go. Rabies vaccine not required for pups under 6 months of age.. The response from the AKC govt liason rep was basically the same nothing has changed, same old quarentine form signed at border, stating new owners will keep at their residence until such time as pup is old enough to get rabies shot. Belwo is exert of reply from AKC Govt liaison rep.
I had a good chat with a representative for government relations at AKC today. The following are some highlights the conversation:



She has also received a few calls from member clubs very recently on the same subject but is not sure of the source for the new concern. 
She has been in touch with her contacts at CDC and USDA and confirmed that nothing has changed and this is old regulation. Detail not fully disclosed by the CDC allows entry of puppies under 4 months of age if they will be confined for a length of time specified in the regulation.
There may be renewed concern due to the high profile adoption of pets by athletes at the Sochi Olympics that resulted in cases of rabies and other diseases into the US. She has not directly heard of or seen any directives to increase scrutiny at the border with young dogs. 

Don

Don Gillingham
Huntersbest Labradors


----------



## Huntersbest (Sep 20, 2013)

A question I was asked in my talks with the folks above, has anyone actually been denied entry by Border Services 
with a pup?

Don

Don Gillingham
Huntersbest Labradors


----------



## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

huntinman said:


> Now we aren't letting Rabbi's in? It's getting rough&#55357;&#56883;. I know the current administration hasn't been that tight with Israel, but that's going a little far.&#55357;&#56841;


LOL - you're right... And the whole UK isn't rabbis free, just Germany.

*RABIS


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Don, the 'new rules' or stricter or enforcement or whatever hasn't gone into effect yet so no one has been denied. It goes into effect August 9th. 

CDC keeps saying nothing has changed. Well it has. How it used to be- "puppy under 3 months old is too young to be vaccinated"- that was a good enough reason to not have a vaccination certficate for rabies and they would either let you through, or issue a confinement agreement, depending on who was working that day. Now they are saying that people should know that 3 months is too young so don't bother trying to get across the border unless you have been pre-approved for a confinement agreement, and they are providing an email address to contact them so that you might state your case. What they are saying is that if you show up at the border with any dog who hasn't been rabies vaccinated you will get turned away. Whether or not that will actually happen we won't know until after the 9th and someone tries it, I'm sure there will be dogs that go through, but if you are following the letter of the law and trying to plan ahead, you would see this on their website: 

This is posted on the CDC website under importing dogs: 
*Proof of Rabies Vaccination

Rabies vaccination is required for all dogs entering the United States from a country where rabies is present. Dogs must be accompanied by a current, valid rabies vaccination certificate that includes the following information:

Name and address of owner
Breed, sex, age, color, markings, and other identifying information for the dog
Date of rabies vaccination and vaccine product information
Date the vaccination expires
Name, license number, address, and signature of veterinarian

These requirements apply equally to service animals such as guide dogs for the blind. Puppies must not be vaccinated against rabies before 3 months of age, so the youngest that a puppy can be imported into the United States is 4 months of age.
Importation of Unvaccinated Dogs

Importation of unvaccinated dogs is allowed on a limited basis. Unvaccinated dogs may be imported only if they are coming from a rabies-free country (see below) or if they are being imported for use in scientific research where rabies vaccination would interfere with that research. Questions about importing unvaccinated dogs may be directed to CDC at [email protected].

Persons seeking to import unvaccinated dogs are responsible for contacting CDC in advance at [email protected] to discuss their particular situations. Unvaccinated dogs that arrive in the United States without advance CDC permission might be denied entry to the United States and returned to the country of origin at the importer’s expense.*

So, maybe from a 'law' stand point nothing has changed, but they have changed how they are enforcing the vaccination requirement, or at least, they have made a press statement to that effect and have changed the wording on their website to lead people to believe that puppies who are not vaccinated will not be allowed into the country without prior permission, which is at their discretion (and yes I have already had one person denied this permission so far). The CDC knows that it is a change that will affect people or they wouldn't have issued a press release and have an 'effective date'. 

Apparently Scott (Razor Labs) has been getting the same information as me in talking to the CDC. So it's confusing to be getting conflicting reports and also the indifferent attitudes from the AKC/CKC who I don't think are really reading the guidance, or don't understand that this is still a few days into the future so there haven't been any problems yet.


----------



## Huntersbest (Sep 20, 2013)

Erin, I understand what you are saying and have faxed the new CDC Interpretation/enforcement and comments to the Ex Dir of the CKC this evening to be fwded to the AKC govt liaiason rep. Below is what I said in my email.

Hi , Late this afternoon I was finally able to track down the CDC directive that is to take affect 9 August. I faxed it all to you (416-675-6506) today ( 22July) at 709 pm. There were 6 pages in total including my cover page.
 This is my interpretation of what is being said. The AKC etc are correct there is no new directive, what is new is how the CDC will interpret and use the "May" aspect of the current directive. The CDC is basically using their "May" authority to clamp down on all non rabbies vaccinated imports. This is why almost all folks who are sending dogs after 9 Aug and have requested import / quarentine permission in advance in the last week have been denied.
 Sure I may be able to still drive across the boarder, fill out the same two forms pay my $10.75 etc. But what is different is how the CDC "may" act once they get their copy of the quarentine form. It looks like they will deny it, send a letter to the new puppy owner denying the request to import and quarentine ( who will have 5 days to appeal). The owner on denial of his/her appeal will then be responsible to get the pup out of the country asap at their expense. What owner is going to buy a CKC dog import it and risk that?
 I may be reading this wrong and look forward to your thoughts as well as those of AKC etc

I will let you all know what I get in response.

Don

Don Gillingham
Huntersbest Labradors


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Don-

I get the impression you are from Canada. If so, you need to realize that the CKC and AKC are very different. Whereas the CKC is an arm of the government, the AKC is but a private organization. Its people can talk to government people but in no way can they issue anything like a directive. Further, we are talking about the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the AKC has very little interaction with this agency,. Finally, this is something that many in this country have sought for years in a general sense. While we didn't argue the details, this is aimed at the massive inflow of unhealthy dogs into the US. Last year, there were 10's of thousands of these dogs and they came from areas which are known to be hotspots for rabies. All the CDC has done is to say that a dog is a dog no matter what its source. Perhaps in a year or two some refinement to the rules will be possible. Dunno.

Candidly, the CDC has been working on trying to find some method to control this for a couple of years. The influx of dogs from Soshi (rabies hotspot) after the Olympics probably tended to move things along.


----------



## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

Plan B - bring dam to USA prior to whelping; whelp litter in USA


----------



## Huntersbest (Sep 20, 2013)

Eric, I dont know where you get your info from but the CKC is not part of or an arm of the Canadian Govt. It is a private enterprise the same as the AKC. The AKC does have a political liaison officer which in fact does discuss and interact with the CDC and other US govt agencies. If Animals from Sochi and Mexico are your problem then fix that, not the pups from Canada. I also would bet that should this not get amended for Cdn breeders you will see a similar rule enacted in Canada wrt US pups being improrted to Canada.

Don


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Don-

My apologies. I'd always heard that the CKC was connected to the Canadian government. I looked it up and I stand corrected.

With my breed, our gene pool is really at risk. Thirty years ago, nearly 100% of the puppies were registered with the CKC and then imported to the US under a contract between the CKC and the Toller club that essentially made the Toller club "the AKC for Tollers." This change will really harm the close relationships between Canadian and American breeders.

Here's the AKC take on the whole episode.

http://www.akc.org/press_center/article.cfm?article_id=5599

http://tinyurl.com/lj59k5r

AKC News

New CDC Guidelines Provide Insight on Confinement Agreements for Dogs from Rabies-Positive Countries

(Thursday, July 24, 2014)

On July 10, the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published new guidelines that establish standard considerations for allowing the import of certain dogs from rabies-positive countries that have not been adequately immunized against the disease.

Current law, which has been in place for more than a decade and has not changed, requires that anyone wishing to import a dog from a country that is not considered to be rabies-free must provide a valid rabies vaccination certificate, certain health records, and be able to pass an inspection for communicable diseases.

Because rabies vaccines may be ineffective when administered to a puppy younger than 3 months of age, and it takes 30 days for full immune response from a vaccine, the youngest age at which a puppy may be imported from a rabies-positive country is generally considered to be 4 months. 

-more-


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

Based on a reading of what the AKC has posted, it seems they aren't planning to lobby for the CDC to change their new interpretation of the regulations. It's strange to me that they aren't fighting it because it means less income for them.


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

I just went on the AKC website and found a "contact us" section and sent an email to the Canine Legislation Department which actually went the AKC Government Relations Department. I explained that I had seen the AKC News column on their website and explained the problem the CDC's new guidelines are causing for U.S. citizens wanting to import Canadian puppies and register them with the AKC. I also mentioned that AKC puppy buyers would not want to wait for the puppies to be 4 months old to take them home and Canadian breeders would not want to keep them for 4 months. I also said that U.S. puppy buyers are having problems currently getting approval to import their pups from Canada after the effective date. So, I said the practical effect is that the number of puppies being imported from Canada will be very limited, thus impacting the AKC's collection of foreign registration fees and future entry fees. I urged them to take another look at the effect of the new CDC guidelines. I hope others will be writing in as well - and also to the CDC.


----------



## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Bartona500 said:


> LOL - you're right... And the whole UK isn't rabbis free, just Germany.
> 
> *RABIS


 You need to buy a vowel. 
Still.


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

We have thousands of miles of border between us that is freely crossed by every critter that transmits rabies.
One has to wonder how legislation like this can even get started.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Judy-

First of all, this technically isn't new. It's been around for several years but just wasn't enforced so rigidly. So, in one sense the train has left the station. Since it's not a proposed or new rule, the opportunity for a massive public outcry aimed at changing the rule just isn't there.

Secondly, the CDC doesn't really care about any of the arguments seen here. The goal of the rule is to eliminate rabies in dogs coming from outside the borders. While we might say that the breeder we got the puppy from is careful, we really don't have any way to back that up. So, the CDC is taking the position that all puppies imported have to go through this in the interest of public health and safety. That's a hard argument for AKC to counter for a small segment of dogs. Basically they'd be asking for special treatment for possible AKC registrants and my contact with the AKC and a couple other groups indicate that it's just not going to happen. 

That said, by all means send the letters. If enough of them get there, the AKC might take a future position that there's a better way to accomplish the goal. However, I don't feel that this will come about before the implementation in 2 weeks. I could be wrong but I rather doubt it.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Scott Adams said:


> We have thousands of miles of border between us that is freely crossed by every critter that transmits rabies.
> One has to wonder how legislation like this can even get started.


Scott, you are so right!


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

I know it is not a new rule or law. I don't think anyone is suggesting changing the rule. What's happening on August 9 or 11, depending on which document you look at, is merely a change in guidelines for interpreting the rule. Guidelines for interpretation can be fairly easily changed. In the past, under the same rule but different guidelines, people drove with Canadian puppies or flew with Canadian puppies across the U.S. border without a problem. Either there was no issue at the border at all or the owners were asked to sign a confinement agreement. No big deal. Now, it sounds like the chance to do that will be very limited because they are limiting the issuance of confinement agreements. Further, it makes no sense since everyone who bought puppies in the U.S. can drag their unvaccinated puppies anywhere they want allowing them to come in contact with the rabies-carrying critters (both U.S. and Canadian) that Scott describes and spreading rabies all over the country. I think we should be sending letters or emails, not only to the AKC but also, more importantly, to the CDC. Otherwise, Canadian breeders of highly competitive dogs will no longer be able to sell puppies to U.S. buyers. It will destroy their breeding programs. And we in the U.S. will find it difficult to buy from Canadian breeders because we don't want to wait until they are 4 months old to bond with them even if the breeder is willing to keep them that long. I say, let's flood them with emails and letters. It can't hurt and may help.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Scott Adams said:


> We have thousands of miles of border between us that is freely crossed by every critter that transmits rabies.
> One has to wonder how legislation like this can even get started.


Bureaucrats looking for something to do...

Along those lines, a friend of mine was coming back to Alaska through Canada one year in his dog truck. I asked him to bring me 100 pigeons. (They were hard to obtain at a good price up there). So he had them in crates on top of his truck... 

Border agents wanted health certificates for the birds... They go back and forth for a bit... And finally my buddy says "fine, if you don't let me through, I'm driving down the road and opening these crates and these birds will FLY into Canada!" The guy let him pass through. I got my birds... This was over 20 years ago... Probably couldn't get away with that now.


----------



## Swampcollie (Jan 16, 2003)

I suspect this change in interpretation has more to do with politics and limiting the supply of puppies available to people in the U.S., forcing more people to obtain young dogs from shelters rather than importing a puppy.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Swampcollie-

The CDC doesn't care that dogs are sourced from breeders or the pound. The change is to prevent shipments of puppies into the US from places like the Caribbean or Mexico. The change has been under discussion for about 5 years ... long before the craze of "retail rescue" became widespread. For instance, in 2006 O'Hare Airport received 6,000 puppies from South America and the Caribbean. The winter Olympics in Sochi. Russia just hastened the decision.


----------



## spinmom (Nov 30, 2012)

Paul Brown _*My wife has been talking to the CDC and their quarantine center in Minneapolis about this*. _I want to know how she got in touch with them and if they were any help? I am scrambling here as I try to fix my own problem. Importation of a pup from Italy in September has all of a sudden gotten much more complicated. Is it a US customs quarantine center? We got the canned email when we emailed the cdci mport link that I have seen posted here. I have sent off another email requesting info on what steps are needed to get a waiver. Spinone need socializing as soon as possible to build that all important bond. any info on what steps any of you have taken and had success with is greatly appreciated! Kathy


----------



## Paul Brown (Sep 1, 2011)

Spinmom--PM sent.


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

Has anyone had any updated experiences with this new interpretation as the deadline approaches? I have several friends in Canada who produce competitive litters with many pups going to the U.S. They are wondering what to do with U.S. puppy buyers for upcoming litters. Is the only solution bringing the bitch across the border and whelping and raising the pups here? By the way, I wrote to the AKC urging them to take another look at the change in interpretation by the CDC and it's impact on future registrations and entries and received no response.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Unless someone else has received a better answer, the solution(s) remain a) bitch whelps in the US or b) breeder holds pup here in Canada until 4 months. The CKC and AKC responses that I have received- not that they have any control, but you'd think they would perhaps be more interested in looking into this further on behalf of us breeders- is that they believe people will be able to apply for a quarantine confinement agreement in order to import a puppy at 8 weeks as usual, so aren't acting particularly worried about it. So far I don't know anyone else who has applied other than the ones I mentioned previously, but continued queries to the CDC indicate that they are not willing to provide confinement agreements if there is any alternative. 

For anyone who wants to try to talk to an official at one of the quarantine centers directly, rather than the form email that they are sending out from the CDC website when you inquire, the list is here: http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/quarantinestationcontactlistfull.html


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

A friend forwarded an email to me about correspondence between a Canadian breeder and the CDC. The breeder said he/she has a newly born litter and two U.S. buyers who want the pups at 7-8 weeks for the "bonding period." The breeder mentioned having sold puppies to the U.S. in the past and asked how to obtain confinement agreements. The CDC responded with the standard email but also wrote, "CDC's dog import regulations do not allow an exception to this rabies vaccination requirment for the purpose you have described below." 

I have heard of Canadian breeders considering taking their bitches to the U.S. and whelping and raising the puppies there until they can go to their new owners. I believe one consideration with that approach is making sure the puppies can be registered. I don't know all the ins and outs, but I assume the bitch would have to be registered in the U.S. so that the puppies could be registered with the AKC first and then later registered in Canada if they are going to Canada. Or can puppies whelped outside Canada still be considered Canadian bred for purposes of CKC registration?


----------



## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

I could understand if the US was free of rabies - but it isn't. We have had a number of reported cases in Minnesota - cows, skunks, deer, and a cat - that I am aware of.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Judy, that is a good question about registration. The CKC litter registration specifically says 'Registration of a Litter Born In Canada" http://www.ckc.ca/CanadianKennelClub/files/fa/fabfcb5a-907e-4d32-b86f-3afbd2b3d14a.pdf 

For AKC litter registration, dam and sire need to be AKC registered and the litter born in the US (or territories): http://www.akc.org/reg/registeralitter.cfm so it seems like that is who the breeder would have to use for primary registration of the puppies. I suspect that most puppies going to US homes are coming from a dam and sire who are AKC registered anyway (at least, when I've sold puppies to US owners I had both parents AKC registered as it makes dual registration easier for the new puppy owners to obtain) - and so having the primary registry as the AKC instead of the CKC is actually a perk for US buyers- the AKC system is much less expensive than the CKC. If the dam or sire aren't already AKC registered, as long as they are CKC registered with breeding rights, getting AKC registration isn't tough to do, so hopefully no one has registration issues on top of the rest of these complications.


----------



## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

Our government is totally f'ed up....

How many border agents would know the difference between a 8-9 week old pup and a four month old pup?


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

Erin, thanks for checking the specifics out. It's what I suspected. I'm not involved in trying to get a Canadian pup right now, but the two dogs I currently have came from Canada so I may have an interest in the future. I know a number of breeders up there who are being affected by this situation. I just wanted to make sure they checked things out before bringing their bitch to the U.S. to whelp and ending up with unregisterable pups.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

limiman12 said:


> Our government is totally f'ed up....
> 
> How many border agents would know the difference between a 8-9 week old pup and a four month old pup?


Don't need to know the difference. All they have to do is ask for the rabies certificate and check the date. I suppose there could be a market for forged rabies certificates. <shrug>


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Here is another nail into the coffin for the Canadian breeders by Air Canada now


August 4, 2014

New requirements for transport of puppies and kittens


Air Canada Cargo is changing some of the requirements for the transport of puppies and kittens. For the comfort and well-being of these young animals, please note that effective August 15:
•A valid health certificate from a veterinarian will be required for all puppies and kittens travelling on Air Canada Cargo, including those travelling within Canada.
•The minimum age for puppies and kittens to travel on Air Canada Cargo will change to 12 weeks. Puppies and kitten under 12 weeks of age will not be accepted for carriage.

We thank you for your cooperation. For questions, please contact your local Air Canada Cargo representative, or contact [email protected].


----------



## Huntersbest (Sep 20, 2013)

Luckily it is only Air Canada changing its policy, I spoke with West Jet and they will continue to fly pups of 8 weeks of age within Canada.

Don


----------



## QuillToller (Jul 16, 2010)

Here is a well written ipetition. Maybe it will help or become the start of something.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/new-import-regulations

Betty


----------



## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

Got an idea... say the pup is a designer dog, stick him your handbag, carry the Rabies cert. for an older dog, and if the puppy is not foaming at the mouth who is ever going to be the wiser...

Seriously.... this new law is just so flawed. It could be fought on the grounds it violates NAFTA and free trade... The AKC should step up and pay for the legal team needed to get this corrected. 

We just brought Ebola into the States .... we already have rabies, and just about every pup gets its vaccination at four months old, so how does the CDC see well raised puppies as a health threat? 

I am sure someone has also posted that wild animals living near the US/ Canadian border cross daily, and many carry rabies. Home raised puppies have about zero chance of bringing rabies into the US.


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

I would love to sign this petition, but I don't think it's correct. It says the age required for the rabies shot has been reduced from 5 months to 4 months. The requirements haven't changed. I believe it has always been 4 months (30 days past the age when a pup can be given a rabies vaccination which is 3 months). The only thing that has changed is their policy regarding confinement agreements. In the past, they allowed pups under 4 months without rabies vaccinations to enter the U.S. provided a confinement agreement was signed. Now they are going to severely limit the issuance of confinement agreements. I don't feel I can sign this petition because it does not correctly state the issue and the CDC will just say they have not changed their regulations, which is true. Does anyone know how to contact the person who is circulating this petition and get the word to them that the premise may be incorrect?


----------



## QuillToller (Jul 16, 2010)

I see what you are saying, Judy. Some of the facts in the long narrative are garbled. Don't know who wrote it, or if these Ipetitions are effective anyway. The CDC public interfaces - FB page and website - seem to be 100% busy explaining Ebola.

The bottom line that the petition is asking, is on point in my opinion: (except why mention genetic diversity to the CDC?)

"Requiring personal owner pick up and transport of unvaccinated 9 to 12 week old pups with a valid international health certificate will ensure that dedicated owners are obtaining these pups. These people are not going to risk their animal’s health from Rabies. This will protect public health while maintaining genetic diversity and allowing US pet owners the maximum options for pet ownership.
http://www.cdc.gov/animalimportation/dogs.html
We ask that the CDC waive the rabies restriction for Canadian breeders.”



Betty King


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

I have a question about the new Air Canada restriction. Does that apply only to puppies flying in cargo? Can they still fly younger than 12 weeks in the cabin? Since they are requiring health certificates, it appears they might still be allowed to fly in the cabin.


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Sorry if this has already been on here. CKC

Update: New U.S. Guidelines re: Importing Dogs 
from Rabies-Positive Countries

Since learning of new U.S. guidelines regarding the importation of puppies from rabies-positive countries, effective August 11, 2014, as set out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the CKC has reached out to various organizations for further comment and information to best support our position and to pursue exceptions to these new directives that direly affect our member breeders and their puppies. 

The guidelines call for stricter enforcement of CDC's Dog Importation Regulations requiring that dogs be fully immunized against rabies before being imported into the U.S. The rabies vaccination must be administered no earlier than 12 weeks of age of the dog and at least 30 days before arrival at a U.S. port of entry. Therefore, the youngest that a puppy may be imported to the U.S. is 4 months of age.

CKC understands the tremendous impact that the new guidelines will have on our responsible member breeders and continues to confer with organizations such as the AKC, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the CVMA to voice our position, to best represent our responsible member breeders and their healthy, well-socialized puppies and ultimately seek exemption to the newly enforced regulations. Further updates will be provided as we work to find a resolution.

For information about changes re: shipping dogs within Canada and to the U.S. for WestJet/WestJet Cargo and Air Canada/Air Canada Cargo, please click here. 

Like us on FacebookFollow us on Twitter


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Judy more info about the shipping changes here: http://www.ckc.ca/en/News/2014/August/Changes-Re-Shipping-Dogs-via-WestJet-and-Air-Cana 

I would call to check. It SOUNDS like they are only talking about puppies flying in cargo but it doesn't specifically say that... good grief!!! If they restrict puppies flying in cabin I'm going to have a heart attack. We really only have that 8-9 week window before most lab pups outgrow the possibility of flying in cabin...


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

QUESTION:

Has anyone applied for, or had a puppy buyer apply for, the permission to use a confinement agreement to bring a puppy home 'on time' rather than at 4 months? So far the only one I've heard of is one of my buyers- who will pick her pup up next week. Just curious to see if anyone has had success and has crossed the border with a puppy since this went into effect, or will soon?


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

The only ones I've heard of have been denied.

Meanwhile, the CKC has issued a document opposing the decision of the CDC and says it's working with the AKC and other organizations to allow Canadian puppies to cross the border as before. I don't know how to post a link or I would include it here. It was sent out in an email to members of the CKC. At least the troops are rallying.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

This is what the CKC emailed out this morning. Glad to read they are working on this: 

"Since learning of new U.S. guidelines regarding the importation of puppies from rabies-positive countries, effective August 11, 2014, as set out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the CKC has reached out to various organizations for further comment and information to best support our position and to pursue exceptions to these new directives that direly affect our member breeders and their puppies.

The guidelines call for stricter enforcement of CDC's Dog Importation Regulations requiring that dogs be fully immunized against rabies before being imported into the U.S. The rabies vaccination must be administered no earlier than 12 weeks of age of the dog and at least 30 days before arrival at a U.S. port of entry. Therefore, the youngest that a puppy may be imported to the U.S. is 4 months of age.

CKC understands the tremendous impact that the new guidelines will have on our responsible member breeders and continues to confer with organizations such as the AKC, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the CVMA to voice our position, to best represent our responsible member breeders and their healthy, well-socialized puppies and ultimately seek exemption to the newly enforced regulations. Further updates will be provided as we work to find a resolution."


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Sorry if this has already been on here. CKC
> 
> Update: New U.S. Guidelines re: Importing Dogs
> from Rabies-Positive Countries
> ...


It sounds
like the CKC is subjecting the FULL WEIGHT of their influence on the AKC and Canadian government agencies. Never have I seen a better example of barking up the wrong tree.


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

You may be right, Scott. But I interpreted it differently. I thought they meant they were coordinating with these agencies to put pressure on the CDC. Let's hope somebody does.


----------



## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

New USDA Rules -15 August 2014-"USDA - Puppy imports must be healthy , 6 months old" Sue Manning (LA) AP services - According to this story USDA besides the September ruling that ".any breeder having four or more female dogs have to be licensed (USDA) if selling sight unseen on websites , flea markets or in classifieds.." the USDA instituted today: "to take effect in 90 days all puppies imported to the US to be at least 6 months old , healthy and up-to-date on vaccinations."

PENALTIES INCLUDE ANIMAL SEIZURE AND FINES PER INSTANCE OF UP TO $10,000


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

There are news reports (print, TV, internet) about the USDA requiring all puppy imports to be healthy, 6 months old, and vaccinated. I searched for awhile trying to find the original document from the USDA to see what it actually says. News reports don't always tell the whole story. At www.aphis.usda.gov I found the original announcement. It does say that dogs imported for resale must meet these new requirements. It specifically says that it does not apply to dogs imported for research, for medical treatment, or for personal companions. So I think we are probably OK on that one. But we are still left with the CDC requirements.


----------



## Lab31416 (Feb 1, 2009)

This document looks identical to the one used when I imported two Airedales from Germany at 8 wks in May. I simply had the vet in Germany attach a note to their health certificate that they were too young to have the rabies shot and that they had not been exposed to wild animals.
The crucial clause in that document is that they came from a country (Germany) considered rabies-free. If you click on their list of countries considered free of rabies, I don't see Canada on that list. That is a real heartbreaker and certainly does not promote or encourage the mixing of Canadian and USA field trial lines. This is the real bummer that I see. Since I have not myself tried to bring in a puppy from Canada I don't know how this document is enforced.
Regards,
Maugh


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Judy is correct.

The CDC has levied the requirement on not shipping dogs into the US until they are 30 days past a rabies vaccination. That's last week's news.

Now, the USDA/APHIS has levied a requirement that dogs shipped into the US for resale must be 6 months old and accompanied by significant health documentation. This takes effect in 90 days. That's today's news.

USDA/APHIS is also the agency that put into effect the rule that limits owners of more than 4 breedable females to not sell puppies unless the buyer has observed the puppies or the breeder is licensed ... the so called Retail Pet Store rule. Last year's news.

These are three different rule-making actions by two agencies of the Federal government. Miss Maning of the AP doesn't understand what's going on and her story in effect compares apples to screwdrivers to pick-up trucks.


----------



## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

What does "resale" mean in the context of the document? The puppies are already sold at the time of shipment and are the property of the recipient in most cases. These are personal companions.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Sabireley - I guess the best answer is "Who is picking up the puppy at the airport?" If it's a new owner, the 6 month rule has no impact. If a group of puppies come in and are picked up as a group by a reseller or transporter, the rule applies.

Watch for the organizations bringing in bunches of dogs in the name of "rescue" to object the loudest. Since these groups charge a fee, they are subject to the rule.


----------



## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Here's an update to the original post. My puppy buyer who submitted an application to take her puppy home at 8 weeks, and sign the confinement agreement in lieu of waiting for rabies vx,and was 'approved' by the CDC to do this with the process of having her sign the documentation set up at the customs crossing (they took her flight info, date/time and insisted she'd have to do it at the border, and would not give out the form in advance)... well they ended up NOT having her sign anything. That is a good thing for her of course but lends more inconsistency to the process. 

A 'friend of a friend' who is acquiring a border collie puppy from a Canadian breeder in a few weeks didn't bother applying and is just going to wing it to see how it goes at the border. That's too risky for my taste but I admit I am dying to hear how it goes and how it will be handled if one shows up with a young unvaccinated puppy and no letter indicating that they have been pre-approved to sign the confinement agreement.


----------



## Judy Myers (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks for the update, Erin. Keep us posted on what happens with your friend. I hope they have a Plan B just in case.


----------



## MunsterBraccoLab (Apr 20, 2014)

Sabireley said:


> What does "resale" mean in the context of the document? The puppies are already sold at the time of shipment and are the property of the recipient in most cases. These are personal companions.


Resale means they are being shipped to someone "here" with the intent they will be sold to someone other than the first contractual buyer.

Example: Joe Duck Hunter buys a puppy from Europe for his own use. No issue.

Example: Puppy Broker, Pet Shop, Breeder or Trainer buys a puppy from Europe to be marketed and sold to a third party in the USA. Issue. When this occurs is not relevant. It can happen before, during or after the shipment. It will not matter who picks up the puppy. If there is a US agent making a profit on the sale this rules applies.

Think about the intent of this rule. Clearly the intent is to regulate puppy resale commerce not prevent a family from buying a puppy as a family pet or hunting buddy. Any arrangement in the purchase structure that is practically resale commerce in puppies is covered by this rule.


----------



## GaryJ (Jan 1, 2013)

Has anyone read this? 


http://akcdoglovers.com/2014/08/19/akc-welcomes-new-puppy-import-rules-that-protect-pets-and-people/


If you click on the 'new regulations' highlighted in the article it brings you to a Rules and Regulations article. 

When reading this on an iPad on page 2 (not sure what the page will be if opened on a PC) the following is found "This rule does not apply when there is no transfer of ownership or control of a dog to another person for more than de minimis consideration after the dog’s importation into the United States. Therefore, dogs imported by a person who will use the dog as a personal pet, for sport, for shows or competitions, or for breeding or semen collection are not subject to the 6-month age restriction or any other requirements of this rule. Additionally, we do not consider dogs imported for training as working dogs to be imported for purposes of resale. Thus, the rule will not apply to puppies imported by legitimate training organizations for the purpose of training the dog to be a working dog."


----------



## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

OK.....some information from my recent Boarder crossing New Brunswick to Maine. Asked the Boarder TSA guy in the booth about what comunication he had on this matter and he stated.....None.... As far as he was concerned we could bring in a pup under 3 months old excempt for rabies vacination. He did not even know where to find the CDC communication on this matter but would have been willing to ask his supervisor. So if the guy in the booth don't know or care....I am not sure they are fully investaging any of this at this level. So.....I am sure it would be a high odds crap shoot that you would get your pup into the States with no problems at least at a land crossing.

Gar


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Lpgar, i'm not surprise of that! SOOOO not surprise!
But in my situation i just can not ask the US buyers to take the risk of not being able to go back into USA with out the pup and get stock @ the border to finally coming back here leaving me the pup for another 2 months, i just can not!
From now on all my litters are going to be whelped in Vermont USA.......Professionally No choices!


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Alain said:


> Lpgar, i'm not surprise of that! SOOOO not surprise!
> But in my situation i just can not ask the US buyers to take the risk of not being able to go back into USA with out the pup and get stock @ the border to finally coming back here leaving me the pup for another 2 months, i just can not!
> From now on all my litters are going to be whelped in Vermont USA.......Professionally No choices!


Exactly Alain.
The problem is this.
As dog people, we are all keenly interested in these new rules.
From an officer perspective, it is small potatoes. Directives from every branch of government come constantly. Prioritizing is the name of the game.
If people want consistency and the letter of the law applied, it means hoping for no lucky breaks.
Just because somebody caught a break doesn't mean that others should feel entitled to it.
Now here is an issue that Cdn breeders should consider before sending their females south for whelping.
If you have a Cdn female whelp over in a neighbouring state, will you be required to pay tax on them when you bring any pups back home that have been sold to Canadian buyers? 
I think you might.


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Scott Adams said:


> Exactly Alain.
> The problem is this.
> As dog people, we are all keenly interested in these new rules.
> From an officer perspective, it is small potatoes. Directives from every branch of government come constantly. Prioritizing is the name of the game.
> ...


Scott I think you would be correct on paying tax........


----------



## mad4268 (Aug 25, 2014)

Hi guys,

I have been following this thread since we found out about the “new” CDC regulation and it has given me some good info especially early on, so I thought I should share our experience with you, even though it’s not for a retriever .

We live in Erie, PA and have been in contact for about 8-12 months with a Canadian breeder about purchasing boxer puppy. We were in on a couple litters but for various reasons, some on our part and some on the breeder’s (really the sire and dam lol) we never ended up with a litter with “our” puppy in it. Shame is all that was before the new CDC debacle. But now we do have a puppy that is due to come home in October. We plan to drive and pick the puppy up ourselves and cross the border near Niagara Falls. Long story short we are currently “conditionally approved” for a confinement agreement. Here is how our process went:

I started by sending an email asking how one can apply for a confinement agreement and basically got a robotic response from the CDC copying and pasting what is on their website. I kept replying and got the same response a few times. It was very frustrating because I couldn’t have a conversation with them because they answer as if robots copying and pasting what is listed online. Finally they asked if I could describe how many dogs, when, and similar items. I did and their response was that we can wait until it is 4 months old. I asked them to justify this as I felt and the breeder felt we could not. After that we finally got an official denial letter from them. On the letter there were 4 check boxes for reasons to deny. For us, they checked that the prevalence of rabies from the country of origin poses a risk. WHAT A JOKE! Prevalence of rabies from Canada?!?! Also on the letter, it states that you can appeal in writing. And that is what we did.

I typed up a letter stating various things that I felt disprove their reasons for denying us. I stated that being neighboring countries, wild animals cross the border freely every day so there is no increase in rabies risk there. I also sent a map from the World Health Organization showing Canada and USA having equal rabies prevalence. I also quoted a segment of their docket they release where it stated that confinement agreements are intended to give owners an option to cross the border with their personal pets who aren’t vaccinated for rabies, which is exactly what we intended to do so I told them by denying us that was a direct contradiction of their own docket.

About a week later I got an email with another letter from the CDC which conditionally approved us for a confinement agreement but there was still work to be done. They needed us to send them proof that we were purchasing and would be the owners, i.e. our cleared deposit check and contract. They also want to know where and when we will be crossing the border. The letter says if we provide that they will send us another letter that we will need to bring with us and that will state our approval to sign a confinement agreement at the time we cross the border.

I will keep you guys updated and let you know how the rest of the process goes.

After receiving approval I am thinking of trying to just cross and see if they say anything about the puppy then if they do, go through all the confinement stuff.


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Good post MAD4268 
As usual, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Scott, what if i have to bring back to Canada my pups for any reasons.......i won't have to pay tax?


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Alain, the question is complicated. To say the least!
I can't speak officially. I discussed it with my fellow officers.
We feel that the puppies are not puppies until they are born. (POTUS?) 
If that is the case, then they would have to have tax paid on them.
One consideration is, would the Cdn Kennel Club consider them foreign origin, if they were conceived in Canada but born abroad?
I haven't looked up the answers, but it should be easy to find.
I don't want to speculate and offer false hope.
You should assume that you will have to pay tax on them, and likely have to use the commercial importation procedures, and Agriculture Canada rules, to bring any of your pups back to Canada.
A very unique situation, but you might find similar application, with other animal industries.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Scott,
Thanks for your support!
Always a pleasure !

Regards,


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Both the AKC and CKC consider the location of the whelp as the origin. For many years, Toller breeders would travel to Canada and whelp in a motel room in order that the puppies be CKC registered. This practice came to an end when the US Toller club signed a contract with the CKC which effectively made the Toller club the national registry for the Toller in the US .... the AKC for the Toller. We then were able to whelp in the US and the US registration became the source document for foreign registrations. Since the CKC recognized the US Toller club registration, this caused the FCI (Europe) to recognize it and the Toller in the US became a "legitimate" breed.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

HI,

I did email the CKC asking what are there position about this new CDC rules?
Has a CKC members for many years now, i expect my organisation to know what are there action plan.

Here is what i got today!


Dear Alain,

Thank you for contacting The Canadian Kennel Club.

We are engaging with the CDC to find a resolution for our members. You can find a letter that we have send to the CDC here: http://www.ckc.ca/en/News/2014/September/Update-CKC-Reaches-Out-to-CDC-around-Agreement-Gu

Trusting this information is helpful. Please do not hesitate to contact us at 1-855-364-7252 for more details.


----------



## Razor Labs (Jan 9, 2011)

Alain said:


> HI,
> 
> I did email the CKC asking what are there position about this new CDC rules?
> Has a CKC members for many years now, i expect my organisation to know what are there action plan.
> ...


Thanks for the info Alain........


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

My pleasure!
I'm following this case with the CKC.....


----------

