# Merlyn or Ali as stud...



## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Would you rather have a pup by merlyn or Ali? I have heard both of these studs names used several times lately. This is just a question and not for my breeding. I actually have a non titled male at the top of my list, but am curious about these two.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

I like how Ali has been performing and his consistency but like that merlyn is by Fargo.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ali has an awesome pedigree that I love. He unfortunately is an EIC carrier so I'm going to use his untitled brother who is clear and is on Mark's truck.

It's unfortunate for me that he's a carrier because the majority of my bitches are too. If they weren't I'd use him in a heart beat.

Angie


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Do you worry about using an untitled stud as far as placing pups? I am not worried about it but wonder what others think


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

I do own a Merlyn pup which skews my perspective. I like her a lot & would own another. 
Mark Land


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> Do you worry about using an untitled stud as far as placing pups? I am not worried about it but wonder what others think


Absolutely not...

But that's me.  I always place my puppies rather quickly. Being in the *loop* helps.

Angie


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm hoping that Ali's bro titles, and proves to be as consistent as Ali. I have a nice bitch that would go well, but EIC is pending. I love that Cosmo stuff!!! 
With the right bitch, I'd go to Ali at the drop of a hat. Great looking AND talented!!!


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

But merlyn has Fargo as a dad and has Cosmo on 
Moms side.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

fowl hunter said:


> Would you rather have a pup by merlyn or Ali? I have heard both of these studs names used several times lately. This is just a question and not for my breeding. I actually have a non titled male at the top of my list, but am curious about these two.


Ali, Ali, Ali, & Ali. I'd be more apt to go to Fen than Merlyn, but that's just me.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Would you explain why fen over merlyn?


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

fowl hunter said:


> Would you explain why fen over merlyn?


I suspect it's because Fen has produced much better in fewer breedings. Fen is the best kept secret in field trials. I'm a little biased, though.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

fowl hunter said:


> Would you explain why fen over merlyn?


What Charles said. Look @ what he has produced. It's impressive.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Ali is just a drive away. If Merlyn were close it'd be a tough decision. Actually, Merlyn really has not established himself as a 'legit' stud just yet, though he has a fantastic pedigree. Seems like "no name" occasional breeders like myself (only been involved in the breeding of 2 bitches) usually have to go with either "proven" or "taste of the month" sires in order to place pups in competitive homes. Believe me, I'm no breeding expert. Just know what I'd like to own myself.


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## DaveHare (Sep 17, 2011)

David Maddox said:


> I'm hoping that Ali's bro titles, and proves to be as consistent as Ali. I have a nice bitch that would go well, but EIC is pending. I love that Cosmo stuff!!!
> With the right bitch, I'd go to Ali at the drop of a hat. Great looking AND talented!!!


 I Love the Cosmo stuff to!!!!!! I have a young gun Cosmo son VERY HOT!!!
Dave Hare


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Fen over Merlyn because of what Fen has produced? 

What am I missing? Both sires' litters are all fairly young. Neither has any titled offspring yet. 

Charles, what exactly do you mean by "produced more in fewer breedings"

Fen has 14 breedings...Merlyn has 12.

Most of Merlyn's pups are too young to know yet....need to watch Stephen Ritters Miah x Merlyn breeding. And Charles Bearden's Merlyn x Kelsey will be interesting to watch though there were only 3 pups (w/ Charles keeping all of them)

An important thing to remember, that Merlyn is owned by the Patopeas. They are in a spot given their client relationships where they are not actively promoting Merlyn with other dogs (namely Pirate) on their truck who are getting alot of breedings. Merlyn also doesn't run as many trials as once he's qualified, they back off to give their client dogs a better chance.


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## Sammy1 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have a Merlyn pup that will be 5 mos. old out of Mark Menzies "PC" bitch. Smartest dog I have ever owned and LOOOOOOVES to retrieve. Marks beyond her age. Probably TOO hot for her age at this point. Hope it continues. Downside is she is quite vocal but working on this. Great Breeding.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

The Merlyn dog that I co-own finished Opens at 2 1/2.

I absolutely love that dog.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

Buster is from the repeat of Ali's litter and is making four years old next month.Still falling in some third series traps ! Has made it there three times so far.Hoping to break the AA ice soon !!


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

junfan68 said:


> Fen over Merlyn because of what Fen has produced?
> 
> What am I missing?


The fact that Fen litters destroy the derby.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Some people play for derby points and some focus making all-age dogs. I know which one I want. 

Only time will tell on which dogs are better all-age players.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

That 1st part is true, but I remember when Chopper had all those pups on The Derby List. They turned out okay in AA. It all starts out with marking though. If they can't mark, they won't do much. 

If you haven't watched the dog yet, I encourage you to go see Ike. Super nice dog. No doubt his momma plays a big part.


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## Dave Plesko (Aug 16, 2009)

junfan68 said:


> Some people play for derby points and some focus making all-age dogs. I know which one I want.
> 
> Only time will tell on which dogs are better all-age players.


I don't have a dog in this debate and believe that your "only time will tell" statement is true. All dogs mentioned in this thread are outstanding. 

But, being on the West Coast and seeing and running against the Fen pups, I can tell you that your implication that they are being trained for the Derby at the expense of an all age career is false.

DP


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

You couldn't go wrong with any of them.I think Merlyn is understated because his breedings are not promoted.I was able to get a Merlyn x MH daughter out of Esprit's Power Play x Varner's Chicken of the Sea*** .She'll be 7 months and has a super attitude,marks well.Is already FF and CCd.It took maybe 3 days to where she was picking up off the ground.Not sensitive but wants to please.Too smart at times.She'll be going to camp soon.We'll see if she has what it takes.I would get another in a heart beat.


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## WBF (Feb 11, 2012)

I also believe both would be great studs for you, but I've owned 2 Merlyn pups from different breedings and they are a ball of fire right out of the box. Both are showing signs of becoming All Age competitors. They are capable of advancing daily. They are very smart and will challenge you as a trainer/handler. Below is footage of both. I sold Swig back in Nov. she is now with Tim Milligan.

Have A Drink On Me "Swig" (FC Merlyn x Diva MH)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU3JEhbL7Y0

If You Run Your Guilty "Charlie" (FC Merlyn x PC ***)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t04FVCsdsSI&feature=related


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

fowl hunter said:


> Do you worry about using an untitled stud as far as placing pups? I am not worried about it but wonder what others think


*Untitled studs with promise and a good pedigree will sell. I believe Angie said she was using the brother because her female was a carrier. Ali has 5 letters in front of his name and is very consistent, if the female I was breeding was clear Ali would be my choice.

Aaron*


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

The whole "this dog vs that dog" is all fine and dandy, but it really misses the point.

What you really want to do is look at the pedigree of the female, then research which lines have nicked well with similar bitches in the past to produce competitive dogs. Then you eliminate a subset of those potential sires based on health clearances, etc. At that point you can start getting into more subjective biases/personal preferences.

just my .02


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Aaron Homburg said:


> *Untitled studs with promise and a good pedigree will sell. I believe Angie said she was using the brother because her female was a carrier. Ali has 5 letters in front of his name and is very consistent, if the female I was breeding was clear Ali would be my choice.*
> 
> *Aaron*


They will but the market is tough. I bred my girl to a QAA stud with Amateur win as a 3yo and I wouldn't say people beat my door down, and the pedigree is excellent.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Aaron Homburg said:


> *Untitled studs with promise and a good pedigree will sell. I believe Angie said she was using the brother because her female was a carrier. Ali has 5 letters in front of his name and is very consistent, if the female I was breeding was clear Ali would be my choice.
> 
> Aaron*


Why Ali? Does anyone know how old his oldest offspring are?


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Ali's oldest pups are just over 1year old.


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Why Ali? He is the complete package!


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Does anyone have current pictures of these dogs they would like to share Fen, Merlyn or Ali?


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

3 of Ali.




























Not only is he insanely talented, he's gorgeous (Even if he is black.).


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Nice head and coat on that dog.

Wish you had a side view.


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## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

I agree, Ali is a great looking dog.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

My FC-AFC High Tech CEO female whelped a litter of 12 pups in April 2008 sired by Merlyn. Here's the photo Jane sent me at that time.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

fowl hunter said:


> Why Ali? Does anyone know how old his oldest offspring are?


I'm assuming it's because the posters have seen Ali.

Angie


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## CLindsay (Jan 5, 2010)

I believe Chuck McCall was Ali's first breeding and those pups are doing well. They may be a little over a year at this point maybe more so time will tell. I just had a litter off of Ali and absolutely love the puppies. Jay Dufour has a male and female at his house off of my litter and I know they are doing well.


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## Old School Labs (May 17, 2006)

I have a 10 month old female from Ali, and so far love everything about her. Time will tell as they say, but have high hopes, as already shows signs of a real team player.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

Here is my little male ( Pacer) yesterday http://youtu.be/wv7zHgxK39g


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## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Jacob, those are very nice pictures of Ali. Thanks for sharing with everyone. Is the dog on Danny's truck?


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## Don Thomsen (Mar 16, 2011)

I feel very fortunate to have a deposit down on an Ali pup!!! Can't wait!!!!


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Nice pup Jay being a pup LOL


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Buzz said:


> Nice head and coat on that dog.
> 
> Wish you had a side view.


Sorry. I'll try better next time. 



Wade said:


> Jacob, those are very nice pictures of Ali. Thanks for sharing with everyone. Is the dog on Danny's truck?


No sir. Ali is on Mr. Mark Smith's truck.


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## T Farmer (Aug 27, 2008)

Ali is Bobby Lanes dog. He lives at Bobbys house and Bobby runs Ali 95% of the time. Only if Bobby is not available does Mark run Ali with the exception of the National Open. Bobby Trains Ali. Bobby does train with Mark during the week but Bobby runs Ali. 

By the way I have had the pleasure of training with Ali since he was a puppy and he not only is he my favorite dog I've have ever known but he by far is the nicest dog I've been around.

Bobby Lane's cell # 601-248-5773. call if you would like to talk to him about ALI.

Tracy Farmer


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Ali is on Bobby Lane's truck . Bobby day trains with Mark Smith. Mark does run and train Ali for the Nationals and summer trips.


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## T Farmer (Aug 27, 2008)

What makes Ali great.

Excellent marking, very trainable, honors training at the trial, he wants to be a good dog, very high powered, runs marks and blinds with style but still under control, drop dead beautiful. 

I can't say enough about him. He's awesome!!!!


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Mark Sehon said:


> Ali is on Bobby Lane's truck . Bobby day trains with Mark Smith. Mark does run and train Ali for the Nationals and summer trips.


I didn't intend to imply otherwise. When I said Ali was on his truck, I meant that's the pro he uses when he uses one. I apologize if it came across as something different.


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## CLindsay (Jan 5, 2010)

Bobby ran him this year at the nationals to the finals. One of only 4 that did not have a handle through all series.


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Mark Smith ran Ali in the last National's.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Lets give Mark Smith a little credit. Ali trains on Mark's setups, marks and blinds;-)


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

There is no doubt Ali is an exceptional animal. I have rooted for him the last couple of nationals. I felt really bad for him two years ago when he went down in the last series. I think he would be an outstanding sire.

But so would Merlyn, so would Fen, and so would many other accomplished males.

Starting a thread titled like this frankly isn't that productive.

Now if we were talking about the merits of one sire vs another WITH RESPECT TO a particular female as it relates to a potential breeding, then that's another story.


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Bobby does train with Mark during the week on all of Mark's setups. Bobby trains with a Am. group on the weekend.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

Franco said:


> Lets give Mark Smith a little credit. Ali trains on Mark's setups, marks and blinds;-)


 lets give charlie moody a little credit as well.


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Kip is right. Charlie did Ali's basics and kept him till he finished Derby(maybe a little longer). Charlie set Ali's foundation perfect. Charlie does deseve a lot of credit.


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## Gwen Jones (Jun 19, 2004)

Ali has a clear littermate whose name is Tango. She is clear on everything and went to an HRC home. She has been bred to FC Honky Tonk Take It Easy who is a RangerX Tequilla Sunrise pup. I am SO anxious to see what arrives towards the end of MArch. I am partial since I bred Ali. He is one of the most incredible animals I have ever watched. Since I want a female this time, I wanted the chances to be even better with Raven and Tequilla Sunrise as the 2 grandmothers. Ranger and Cosmo as the Grandfathers!!


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## rbr (Jan 14, 2004)

If anyone knows of any Ali breedings please contact me via PM

Bert


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## honkerhavens (Dec 28, 2010)

what is the stud fee on ali ?


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## Bill Billups (Sep 13, 2003)

Charlie had him through derby and quals. I remember him running as test dog with Charlie in an open but don't know if he ran any AA stakes while on Charlie's truck.

Ali is an awesome animal.


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## Bill Billups (Sep 13, 2003)

Gwen I expect a lot of what makes Ali great came from his momma. Raven was a sweetheart!


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## Sophie Gundog (Apr 28, 2010)

Have watched three young Merlyn Pups just over a year old in our training group, wow what a dog ! they are smart, hard charging and honest


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## Nick Toti (Feb 3, 2011)

Now that some time has passed and the pups are now dogs, how is everyone liking them? I've been seeing some very nice Ali pups coming up through the ranks. And also know of a local Merlyn son that just got his FC at 4. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, just curious what the updates are. I am looking at the option of using Ali or that FC son of Merlyn as a stud and I found this thread searching.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Don't forget about AFC Grindstone's Lethal weapon....he was the first Merlyn dog to title and run a national. Plick is out of Kweezy x Code Blue bitch.


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## Chuck McCall (Jun 29, 2003)

I was the first to breed to Ali a little over 4 years ago. I bred him to my HRCH/MH QAA female who was FC Fargo x FC Cudashudabena Playgirl. ! pup is now a GRHRCH and has qualified for the last 3 Master Nationals. Very solid dog....Stable at the line...Nice Marker....Handles like a dream...Very watery....WIsh I had an entire kennel just like her....Perfect dog for the Grand....Could use a little more fire is her only downside.....


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## Kajun Kamakazi (May 17, 2011)

Mike W. said:


> Fen over Merlyn because of what Fen has produced?
> 
> What am I missing? Both sires' litters are all fairly young. Neither has any titled offspring yet.
> 
> ...


You got this one right. D. Castro's dog FC "Clouseau" is an awesome dog and extremely fun to watch both in competition and in training. L. Barras' dog "Brees" is an outstanding animal too.


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## JKOttman (Feb 3, 2004)

Bobby Lane asked us to run a Stud Dog Report on Ali. It's updated each week. If you want to check out the dogs thrown by Merlyn you can look him up on the RR website http://www.retrieverresults.com.

Here's the Ali Stud Dog Report link: http://www.retrieverresults.com/doc...2&utm_campaign=FT+Newsletter&utm_medium=email


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Just to update this thread; FC AFC Fen Wizzard x FC AFC Hurricane Breeze produced 6 Titled dogs (2 litters) including an NAFC FC Dottie Ray's Ivy League


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