# Classic Quotes from Judges during the scenario...



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

So, every HT I go to I hear something new and memorable during the scenario. Here's a couple of new ones from this year so far...



> Senior Judge - You cannot use the word "no." If you use the word no, you will be dropped for training and intimidation. We all know that the word "no" is equal to pushing the button on the transmitter and that is just not allowed.





> Master Judge - If you shuffle backwards one more time your out. Your a FT'er and I know how FT'ers train. That shuffling is intimidation and you cannot do that.





> Senior Judge - Yes your marks and land blind were excellent but your dog didn't take enough water on the shoreline blind. I know he was online, but you should have put him out in the water further.





> Master Judge (Mine from this past weekend) - Ah hell, Cantrell is here, there goes the neighborhood...


/Paul


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## jill (Nov 15, 2005)

Gary joking around one time while there were a bunch of pro standing close with in listening range, loudly told another judge with less experience then him, "if it comes down to two dogs in the end and you don't know which way to go, always look to see if one is pro and the other am. and you just give it to the am. ofcourse." A few tail feather got ruffled with that comment.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2007)

Scenario: Open water blind, 28 dogs carry over from previous day, water level has fallen considerably from swimming to lunging and wind changed 180 degrees from downwind to directly in your face.
As I am trying to pick up my dog after no response to whistles after first 100 yards Judge says to me:
" I know, they cant hear the whistles after they get past those tulies"


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

At least one set of tailfeathers got ruffled when the Marshall stated to me, "The Judges said to tell you, if you asked, that your were dropped due to "lack of effort".

That prompted a little e-mail from me to both Judges.

Jerry


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2007)

Another scenario:
Amateur Saturday morning: More experienced judge says to less experienced judge "The only thing wrong with our test is that the first bunch of dogs probably will have difficulty seeing the guns and birds because they will be looking directly into the sun, but dont worry, it will get better as the sun rises" And thats the test, line'em up!


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

No lie. 
Had a MH judge tell and he was absolutely serious, 
"We had to drop some dogs and I guess you're one of them."
When asked for clarification, he replied, "I don't have any thing else."
BTW, I shot flyers with him the day before.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote from an Open Judge, Spring 2007

"I don't care if the dog pinned the marks, the dog took the same initial line to two of the birds"


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## Kyle B (May 5, 2005)

"Well how many cast refusal's do you think we should've allowed?"


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2007)

A couple of years ago I had to walk out into the field and get my dog Midas, at a Master Hunt test. The judge had a few funny comments (now looking back) "I don't think that he is coming back, I blow the whistle one more time, the Judge laughs and says, "well try a few more toots" "Sorry bud the 35 whistles and the nine here's didn't do it maybe you ought to go ahead and go out and get him". As I m walking back in with dog in tow the judge says "Boy he sure is a good lookin fella". When I got back the Judge told me, don't worry about it, notice the crowd not a single soul is laughing because they know they could be next walking out there.


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

A few weeks back I heard an HRC Started judge 'splain..."You will be required to sit on the bucket for some of the test, and stand for some of it. We have a responsibility to teach handlers what to expect when they move up to the next level"...??????

Wonder how many "got hooked"? :roll: 

UB


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

Best HT scenario by judge:
First series of the Master a handler ask the judges for the scenario and got: "3 birds were in the air,they got shot and hit the ground, you need to pick-um up".
I don't recall them asking for the 2nd series!  

Tim


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Land blind..........water blind by invitation

Poison bird and clear slot at the end of the blind marked by hay bails....

Line was under arc of poison bird which was about 50 yards deep and through hay bails........

Run the land blind....under arc......through bails.....decent blind.

No invition to water blind.

"May I ask why?"

" You didn't challenge the line."

" :roll: Ok, thank you."

:lol: :lol:


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

lolololol at Ken.


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## aaron james (Jun 14, 2005)

And I just cant figure out what are the troubles in the sport


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> So, every HT I go to I hear something new and memorable during the scenario. Here's a couple of new ones from this year so far...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I missed one from a senior judge...


> Senior Judge - the akc recently separated marks from blinds and to pass my test you must average 5.5 on the blinds in order to pass...



/Paul


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## MRGD (Apr 9, 2007)

That second one about the shuffling is hilarious. Is that what you FTers do, shuffle? Not at that guys test. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## DuckManiac (May 10, 2004)

I was a Marshal for a Master Test. While running the water blind the judge told a handler that he was going to be dropped because he was intimidating his dog with his whistle.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

It's no wonder that folks new to the game are scared to death, confused and constantly asking what to expect at the different levels.

There's some really crappy judges out there it sounds like.

Glad I've never had to run under any around here. :roll:


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

I agree Brad B; however these stories are far & away the exception not the rule. Most judges do a good job and I appreciate their contribution to the sport.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

So.... AKC senior test, first series is land. My dog breaks on the honor. judges give working dog handler the option of staying on line or coming back in 3 dogs. Handler wants to stay put. Judges tell me to honor on lead. I sheepishly tell them I lost my piece of rope in the tall grass and have no lead. One of the judges says to me...............
"Just stand on her tail, I do it all the time when I run"  :shock: !!!!!


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## Brian Cockfield (Jun 4, 2003)

Tim Carrion said:


> Best HT scenario by judge:
> First series of the Master a handler ask the judges for the scenario and got: "3 birds were in the air,they got shot and hit the ground, you need to pick-um up".
> I don't recall them asking for the 2nd series!
> 
> Tim


That sounds like something I would say. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## duckdawg27 (Apr 30, 2007)

AKC Senior Judge>>>
"That's not good enough to pass "Master" so it won't work here."

"You can't tell your dog "Fetch" any verbal commands while running blinds will be scored as intimidation."

"Stop talking to your dog...that's not allowed (while running land blind)"


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

mjh345 said:


> I agree Brad B; however these stories are far & away the exception not the rule. Most judges do a good job and I appreciate their contribution to the sport.


Oh by far, I agree, most are good judges and I too appreciate their time. As any judge I've run under will tell you, I try and make it a point to thank them for giving up their weekend so we can play, no matter what the outcome was for my dog. I just hope I don't run across some of these quoted "less than informed" judges. !!


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

Brad is a very courteous handler. 

I read these and just shake my head. I hear lots of these type stories....I sure hope I have never said anything like them. I have judged for a number of years and would like to turn this thread into a positive if I can get some help....

What have judges told you that was a good thing to hear....something that stuck....

...like I try to tell junior handlers that the _*most important thing they have to remember is to breath because they can't take a to hand delivery if they are passed out....*_

...._*dogs can't mark what they can't see*_....and I go to the trouble to makeing sure that my marks are visable from the dog's point of view - even though I am Old, you will often see me squatting or kneeling down to watch (and listen to) test marks.

..._*If you are enjoying this sport you should think about giving back by becoming a judge*_...We need more good judges. I hope that some of what I have done will serve as an example to those who take me up on it. 

I have decided not to do as much judging as I have in the past, but when I read stuff like many of you have told about, I wonder if I have done enough to insure that this game is fun for all in the future.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

My memory is about as long as my hair !! So I'm sure there were many positive comments I've heard, just can't remember them.

Anytime I get a encouraging or positive word from a judge, I take it as a great compliment. Those judges are often times way more experience than I and have seen WAY more dogs run than I have, so to have them tell me "you have a good dog there, just keep working with him". Or as one judge did recently, they offered to buy my dog, which was turned into somewhat of a joke, but I know that it's a compliment. 

A simple word of encouragement or training tip at the line or after the test can sometimes make a handler feel better than any ribbon.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Lady Duck Hunter said:


> Brad is a very courteous handler.
> 
> I read these and just shake my head. I hear lots of these type stories....I sure hope I have never said anything like them. I have judged for a number of years and would like to turn this thread into a positive if I can get some help....
> 
> ...


Vicki, you should know that you're one of my favorite judges. (And, I AM going to pass one under your old man one of these days!!!) This sport needs more like you. I recall you noting that sometimes when setting up a test, you'll turn your back to the marks to hear where the poppers sound like they're coming from. I've seen very few judges go to the trouble of repositioning their poppers.

I also recall you asking me once as I approached the line during one of my first Jr's "...Have you breathed lately?" and, "This is *your *time, so let us know when you're ready". 

And, as I've told you before, I've always admired the way you'll treat an obvious first time Jr handler whose Fifi probably hasn't ever seen a duck and never picked the first mark. You'll have a bird boy or Marshall toss one for them, let them know that this sport can be fun, and that their dog CAN do the work! Running them off after 1 mark, no bird, $55.00 spent and a long disappoining ride home before 9:00 a.m. ain't going to help us all grow and enjoy this sport for long. 

I'm thankful that some of you "Get it"!!!!


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

[quote="2-Dogs
Running them off after 1 mark, no bird, $55.00 spent and a long disappoining ride home before 9:00 a.m. ain't going to help us all grow and enjoy this sport for long. 

I'm thankful that some of you "Get it"!!!![/quote]


Amen !!!


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Some of these judges's comments to handlers, are the very reason we need judges that know the rules. Add these judges to your "black list". They are on a "power trip" and are trying to show their power over the handlers. :roll: NOT what we need!


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## Ron in Portland (Apr 1, 2006)

The best thing I've heard from a judge was after my dog picked up the two land birds at last week's JH test, when I handed him the second bird and he said "nice work". It's amazing how great that felt.  

That felt a lot better than after the first mark on our first test, when I had to handle him to the bird (which he brought back), but we were dropped before getting a chance at the second mark. Fortunately that test was a double for Juniors and he got his first pass that Sunday, so we didn't have to wait weeks for another chance.



Ken Bora said:


> ...I lost my piece of rope in the tall grass...


and by the way, what's with Ken and rope?


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## idellalabs (Feb 24, 2004)

Prior to the test dog running the live flyer water mark in a Junior test the judge is asked about the no bird area as there was an island near the gun station. Judge says if the bird lands on the other side of the island it will be a no bird. There are numerous no birds..my dog comes to the line and sure enough, bird lands on the other side of the island. Judge says "dog" so before I send her I turn to the judge to verify that Judge is telling me to send the dog even though the bird landed clearly in the previously specified no bird area. Judges words to me were "I'm sure she marked it"
Yep, she did all right but by the time she tried to climb over the log in front of the island and got onto the island and got a nose full of the gun station, got off the island to go to the gun station, got back in the water and tried her darndest to find the bird. judge had me pick her up. Folks in the gallery were telling me I needed to put up a fuss and get a re-run, HT secretary apologized to me because her dog had done the same thing and had been allowed a re-run. I just chalked it up to I paid my 60 bucks for that judge's opinion and better luck next time. Just to save you the ink, I'll tell you that the 2nd judge was a protege of first judge and never in a million years would question the former's judgement :roll: 
Because of the comment of "I'm sure she marked it" I have not ran another AKC test. That particular judge really likes to judge so has been on almost every roster since that test. Thankfully I live close to the border so will let the Canadian clubs have my money for awhile.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ron in Portland said:


> The best thing I've heard from a judge was after my dog picked up the two land birds at last week's JH test, when I handed him the second bird and he said "nice work". It's amazing how great that felt.
> 
> That felt a lot better than after the first mark on our first test, when I had to handle him to the bird (which he brought back), but we were dropped before getting a chance at the second mark. Fortunately that test was a double for Juniors and he got his first pass that Sunday, so we didn't have to wait weeks for another chance.
> 
> ...


Ken has a sickness regarding rope. He's often scene running around the woods tapping trees, licking his lips and running to his truck for short rope. I'm glad I got to see your dog run Ron, I like him. Have fun working on the senior title....

/Paul


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

"Congratulations Angie,,,, Christmas came early." :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Angie


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## ChrisRobt (Apr 5, 2005)

Lady Duck Hunter said:


> ..._*If you are enjoying this sport you should think about giving back by becoming a judge*_...We need more good judges. I hope that some of what I have done will serve as an example to those who take me up on it.


How many really agree with this???

In one of my recent posts/questions, it was suggested that since I'm not a hunter, I'm not qualified to judge any level of hunt tests...


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## Robert S. Libberton (Feb 7, 2005)

Christine, I have read your comments before on this and I agree with the folks that critize you, if you dont hunt, dont judge, I dont want that to come across harshly, so I am sorry. If I am being judged I dont care if you tell me an eloraborate scenerio about the marks, but I would like to know if you had no hunting experience before I entered, I would rather take the week off.

Here's and idea, I will take you hunting this fall so you can tell contestants you are a hunter, dont worry if you can shoot anything. I will take you on a dove hunt, a duck hunt, and a goose hunt all ina weekend. From there you will have the tools to go hunting for a season or two then judge a few hunt tests and see if that makes you a better judge when you would see the marks through educated eyes. 

For cryin out loud its a hunting test for hunting dogs. It seems like an individual with a few years hunting could duplicate a good test right, we see the pics of a couple hunt tests with no decoys, calls, and guns at the line and I wonder if the judge is just lazy or a non hunter.

When I duck hunt I have used 6 dozen decoys in a diver spread and have hunted near gill nets that required handling around them on a blind. I routinly hunt over 2-4 dozen decoys when I am hunting for puddle ducks. I hardly ever see that duplicated in a hunt test, there begining to be more like short field trials, with the dang contestants pushing the rules on clothing, their black gloves and other crap etc...


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

ChrisRobt said:


> How many really agree with this???
> 
> In one of my recent posts/questions, it was suggested that since I'm not a hunter, I'm not qualified to judge any level of hunt tests...


Christine,
I wouldn't hire you as a guide!
IMHO hunting skills are not the same as judging skills.
If I had to pick one, I would rather run under someone that knows about dog work and bird placement over someone that knows how to dress, call and place decoys.
But that's just me!

Tim


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## Lonny Taylor (Jun 22, 2004)

Here is a good one. This was done in jest of course. Handler was quizing his friend, who was judging, about how they had done and they were waiting for the dog to return with the bird from a water blind. The judge told him " well if ya can help me with something, I will be able to complete your score" and the handler said "sure what is that?" The judge asked "do you spell ****ty with one T or two?" Of course the look on the handlers face had to be priceless.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> and by the way, what's with Ken and rope?
> 
> Ken has a sickness regarding rope. He's often scene running around the woods tapping trees, licking his lips and running to his truck for short rope.
> /Paul



Puuullease DON'T ask him what the hook is for.

Just playing it safe regards

Bubba


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

The best thing I have ever heard a judge say is "See you at the water."


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## ChrisRobt (Apr 5, 2005)

Robert S. Libberton said:


> Christine, I have read your comments before on this and I agree with the folks that critize you, if you dont hunt, dont judge,
> For cryin out loud its a hunting test for hunting dogs. It seems like an individual with a few years hunting could duplicate a good test right, we see the pics of a couple hunt tests with no decoys, calls, and guns at the line and I wonder if the judge is just lazy or a non hunter.


I guess you're right; after all we have an abundant supply of well qualified judges so I'm being a bit presumptuous to think that my 35 years of dog training (obedience, agility, conformation, tracking, and field- the last 20 years) would somehow be enough to allow me to set up a hunting scenario. HOw could a non-hunter who completely trained a dog to a master title without sending that dog away to a pro have any idea how to set up a good test? I regularly train with field trialers who have taught me about the effects of the wind and terrain on the dogs; yes they are hunters, but we all know you can't learn without actually experiencing the real hunting experience.

I ran in a master test last Fall where we had a "duck hunt" in the trees...somehow I don't think that was a true hunting scenario (actually the judges apologized when they described our "hunt"). I've also run in a test where we were hunting pheasant over open water as the birds were thrown into the water from a boat... these tests were set up by hunter judges.

It's easy to allow my "credentials" to lapse so I don't harm the poor non-suspecting handlers with my lack of knowledge.

Christine


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## MRGD (Apr 9, 2007)

Well done Christine. I love sarcasm, and that was a fine example of it. I'm not kidding. Excellent.

tt


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Angie B said:


> "Congratulations Angie,,,, Christmas came early." :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Angie


OK, I give, what's this post mean ?


Confused in Beaumont.


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## Tall Gunner (Apr 17, 2007)

ChrisRobt said:


> I ran in a master test last Fall where we had a "duck hunt" in the trees...somehow I don't think that was a true hunting scenario (actually the judges apologized when they described our "hunt").
> Christine


The judges apologized for what? You have never duck hunted, and you don't understand hunting in the trees? Wow.........please don't judge.


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## Robert S. Libberton (Feb 7, 2005)

Christine, your write well but I dont care, if you dont hunt I dont want to run a HT under you. From having ran HT and FT your credentials are meaningless, Lots of AA pointed judges dont know marks and this very topic includes many priceless comments from Master judges who say a stupid thing. Look at it my way if you dont hunt then I am saving the HT community you live near from another uninformed judge however qualified you are.

Tim has a point and is a good dog man but I submit I bet he hunts. This sport is about hunting not obedience or any other dog game you played and it does not give you esteem in my opinion that you can get a dog to sit or run through weave poles. So What. I have trained with folks that dont hunt and they seldom get "it" and I have hunted with folks that dont train their dogs or own dogs and they understand more than the ones that dont hunt. This game is truely enjoyable when judges set up a test from experience to see if the dogs can actually hunt.

Training a master dog is great, and learning from experienced people is the way to go but, without context of how to hunt your always going to be mechanical. Marks in a hunt test can be natural and based form real experience from hunting, remembering bad experiences that dont reflect hunting experiences dont make me think you will be better, what context will you base your opinions from a good days shoot or the gallery's judgement? The use of grounds, decoy placement, line, handler position, wind and other mechanical items can make your marks very substantial. The knowledge of how to hunt with all of them makes the test realistic.

I see this all the time, anyone can really set up a substantial mark. The guys who set up a quality marks are the ones I want to train with. Sometimes your limited with grounds and as a judge I understand that. I also know that I will always have a lot to learn about dog behaviour.

I dont critize the FT setups I see, there designed for a purpose. The HT setups I ran under in NC and CA were also nice with the exception that in the west numerous decoys were not used. Tough marks dont make a test, anyone can trick a dog.

Once again I dont want to seem mean, so go hunting... see if that changes your perspective.


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

I have to agree with Tim C.
Most of your JR. Handlers at a hunt test are avid hunters. Enough said.


Time spent training many dogs is what enables anyone to understand what they are doing. Being a great hunter has absolutely nothing to do with dog work.

If I were mainly a hunter and I were judging a test I would drop 3 ducks in the stool and set up a 400 yard blind through the tullies. How many people would say "nice Test"


I think if someone trained dogs for a long time and watched a couple of duck hunting videos they could set up a good test.  

If a person truely set up a true hunting senerio they would never be asked to judge again.
Pete


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Brad B said:


> Angie B said:
> 
> 
> > "Congratulations Angie,,,, Christmas came early." :lol: :lol: :lol:
> ...


It means we passed,,,,, barely. My dog and I got a _gift_ that weekend.

Angie


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## Robert S. Libberton (Feb 7, 2005)

Pete I disagree, I woudl tink you can have an inspired hunting day when you set up your test, truly the retrieves have been easier in real life byt I have seen some beautiful work. I would use that as inspiration not the triple you group brings down. Never shot a triple on ducks alone.


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

your welcome Angie :lol:


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Ron in Portland said:


> Ken Bora said:
> 
> 
> > ...I lost my piece of rope in the tall grass...
> ...


Rope is the most important dog training tool ever. most overlooked and underused tool as well. you can do so much with a few chunks of rope at a few different lengths. add a stick and a post and a helperand heck you may as well turn pro.
Ken Bora

Got Rope?


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> Ron in Portland said:
> 
> 
> > Ken Bora said:
> ...



Atta boy, Ken. Rope is important. It's just that those good ol' boys out west have a different view of its' usage. 

Bubba is concerned because of his former rustling days, and how he saw rope put to use back then. 

/Paul OTOH envinsions rope of a different sort...kinda velvety, and used in conjunction with shiney bedsteads and floor-to-ceiling poles. :roll: 

To each his own eh?

UB...thinkin about Howard and what he uses to go along with the duct tape. Hehhehhehheh :lol:


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## BamaK9 (Sep 29, 2004)

I'm from Alabama, they don't let us have rope anymore :lol:


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Uncle Bill said:


> Bubba is concerned because of his former rustling days, and how he saw rope put to use back then.


Former? You should have seen him hiding the rope from the lucky few handlers that made the third series this past weekend...

/Paul


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

Robert,
Nothing wrong with disagreeing. We all see things allitle different depending on lifes experiences and how we deal with obstacles. If we all thought alike we would bore ourselves to death.  

It sures doesn't make anyone right or wrong.
When I was young and rudy I had a terrible hunting habit. I was consumed with it. I was also a conservationist because rarely did I bring home much of anything. But as the years flew by and I remained dedicated to the cause I would become more and more successful. Until one day I was disapointed if I didn't limit by so and so time or I didn't bag a buck by noon.
Dog training is the same. The longer you do it and the more you dedicate your time to it the more efficient you get. And head knowledge turns into practical knowledge.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Uncle Bill said:
> 
> 
> > Bubba is concerned because of his former rustling days, and how he saw rope put to use back then.
> ...


What choo talking Wilbur? We carried everthing that didn't eat something or drown to the 3rd. Some folks who shall remain unnamed (cough *** /paul ***cough) couldn't get their hound to sit, so we hadda do something.

The 3rd series was FUN - even made Jim Dobbs sweat (well OK just a little) - I'd have LOVED to run it. TJ's dog made it look easy as did several others. UVRC is a great club and I had a ball there. The grounds are nothing short of magnificent and the help was outstanding. 

As to the rope thing, a guy gotta have a good rope, how else you gonna stay on for the whole 8 seconds?

/Paul on the other hand has other things in mind for this velvet rope that I really don't want to go into here.

No rustlers in my family, but most of us ARE well hung,

Bubba


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

> Most of your JR. Handlers at a hunt test are *avid* hunters. Enough said.


Hmmm....must be a geographic thing.....I surely don't think that's the case _as a rule_.

kg


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

MikeBoley said:


> your welcome Angie :lol:


Welcome for what???? It should be Thank You!!!

Now all you guys behave,,, noth'n going on but Mike having the pleasure of judging my dogs......

Angie


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## Backcast (Jun 1, 2006)

I think it's human nature to mis-speak on occassion. Hell, I'm a police chief and I'd rather go against an armed felon than do a press conference! 
I only got hooked on HT's a few years ago. During one Sr. test I felt a judge changed his standard when a water/cheating blind was eating up pups; yes, I got dropped trying to meet his original requirements and I was a little salty but it exposed a weakness so I learned. 
I've run in PA, MD, NJ. & NY and I can honestly say that it was a pleasure to run under every judge I met. RTF member Paul Young being one of them. One dear fellow whispered in my ear that he tries to not penalize a dog for a handler mistake - but that's another story.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Bubba said:


> Gun_Dog2002 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncle Bill said:
> ...


Oh I see how ya are. Your dog has to sit in Master now. Next thing you know you'll be expecting them to handle on blinds and mark triples. If you would have let me bring my velvet rope to the line and then been busy scriblin notes during the honor I could have showed you how great that big blockhead can sit with a just a little encouragement. I told you when you called me to the line in the 1st series that my goal is to someday intimidate this dog in a test. Thats apparently still a goal....

3rd series is a good test. Ran it 4 years ago with Ice and smoked it. Course Ice could sit....

I'll leave the laughter on the well hung comment to Terri...

/Paul


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

"Quote" from our last test, while running the blind!


*"Gooser,, Would you kindly take a moment and remove the buckets from your feet!--Your embarrasing your dog! ":*oops:  

Gooser


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

MooseGooser said:


> "Quote" from our last test, while running the blind!
> 
> 
> *"Gooser,, Would you kindly take a moment and remove the buckets from your feet!--Your embarrasing your dog! ":*oops:
> ...



Good to see you posting MG. Am I to assume the lovely Lady Di is well again and kickin' yer butt? We definately missed your folks at our test this past weekend. Howsabout Cheyenne this weekend?

UB


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Was searching for something and came up on this thread. Classic RTF. Jerry, UB, Bubba, Gooser, Syrup boy, Angie, KG, Howard reference. Guess we're all reminiscing this week with the loss of Howard....

/Paul


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Was searching for something and came up on this thread. Classic RTF. Jerry, UB, Bubba, Gooser, Syrup boy, Angie, KG, Howard reference. Guess we're all reminiscing this week with the loss of Howard....
> 
> /Paul



Thanks Paul!

Might as well add to it:

" Today we are going to do something a little different."

" Don't worry, we"ll judge it accordingly. "


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## Good Dogs (Nov 1, 2005)

Just to keep it going:
A good ol' judge loudly announced to the assembled handlers that there were 3 "very important things to remember.
1. Be safe,
2. Have fun,
3. Uh, ummmm, I cain't remember what number 3 was 'sposed to be." 

And no, it wasn't Rick Perry.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Tim Carrion said:


> Christine,
> I wouldn't hire you as a guide!
> *IMHO hunting skills are not the same as judging skills.*
> If I had to pick one, I would rather run under someone that knows about dog work and bird placement over someone that knows how to dress, call and place decoys.
> ...


Totally agree, I'd much rather run under a person who knows zilch about hunting, but understands good dog work and exercises good judgment. If you came up through the ranks of JH, SH and MH, odds are you picked up enough about hunting to judge dogs in a hunt test. It used to crack me up some of the convoluted "scenarios" real hunters would come up with to explain why we were running a particular set up. 

John 

edit: I didn't notice this was a six year old thread when I read it and posted a response...


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

In an amateur stake, I rec'd a placement (& I'm appreciative for any placement I receive). After folks disbursed somewhat, one of the judge came up to me without any inquiry from me and said, " you probably thought you should have won since your dog was the only one to have no hunts but the line your dog took to the long bird did not indicate a positive mark". I guess my mouth dropped a little. I asked what was wrong with the line. The judge said, "now I don't judge lines but I don't think a dog should bow away from the AOF of the short mark that my dog had already retrieved (this was a near over/under where the under was a flyer wiping out the long bird) when going for the long mark, it just doesn't demonstrate good training". So I couldn't help myself, I said so you don't judge lines but it kept me from winning, & apparently you don't judge hunts on marks either since as you said my dog didn't hunt.

I felt much better about my placement prior to that conversation......


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

In a lower stake a judge suggested to a novice owner......stop being a litter mate.


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## pat addis (Feb 3, 2008)

hrc finished judge after failing my dog she didn't do any thing wrong just not right enough. co judge in a finished test we can't fail that dog it passed the grand, that was after 3 whistle refusals and 2 cast refusals


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

At a HT in Alaska many years ago... After a long tortuous performance...

Handler notices score on judges open book and says "Is that a ZERO?"

Co-judges says "yep... Wanna see another one?"


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

"Well done Christine. I love sarcasm, and that was a fine example of it. I'm not kidding. Excellent."

Well we've already gone on a tangent with this thread; and revived it from extinction; So where's the rest of the story? Did the Qualified to judge ever go hunt? What is hunting experience? It's a requirement to judge, if you have all the other requirements, just take a day or two, and enjoy a morning hunting with your dog; go out and see what these dogs are truly bred to do. I respect people who give back to the sport and know dogs. I should hope they respect a hunter with his neutered-spayed meat dog enough to go out and actually see what is required of a hunting dog, and what traits are necessary for these dogs to do that job, perhaps take a little understanding of that into their judging. Realistically these judges hold that hunter's- next meat dog's breeding pool and genetics in their hands, they should know a bit about the job a hunter needs their dog to do, before they go judging the quality of the ingrained traits of that breeding pool.


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Heard this prior to a test last weekend..."Boy my last test really ate some dogs @$$!" Evidently he felt the need to start a tradition.


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## Byron Musick (Sep 19, 2008)

The last Master hunt test I was in, one judge said "I think you did pretty good, but my partner is quite an @$$ and may feel differently"...


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## dmccarty (Jul 9, 2004)

At a Master test, terrible weather rainy cold with wind in your face, big open water blind then climb out and fade right to pick up the bird, and if your dog went left it was out of sight- most people were either stopping their dogs as they came out of the water or ended up losing them. I sent my dog and waited out the swim, watched her climb out of the water and run straight. I knew I had locked her on good to the line I wanted her to take and was confident she would fade right. The judges, however, were not so sure. Judge 1- "You know it's okay to blow the whistle". A second of silence then Judge 2- "You wont be dropped for blowing a whistle". More silence, then I hear a judge hiss "Blow the whistle!". I did not blow it and my dog did fade right and ended up one-whistling the blind. The judges were all smiles as I left the line.


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## Kirk Major (Apr 12, 2012)

The best advice I have received to date from a very experienced co-judge: "Look around at where you are going to set up, take not of your surroundings and make sure there are no tall trees around". I thought about this for quite a while, considering possible hazards to dogs, ability to see the area of every fall, and where I might like to place marks. He let it soak in for a bit as my mind wondered and then told me "You don't want to judge near anything they could hang you from".


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## Dazed (Apr 7, 2013)

2nd Junior HT. While my pup is an excellent marker, her line manners are atrocious. Hard as we work, she is on fire at the line, and has a really hard time settling down. We had passed the land tests, and as i was being dragged to the line on the first water mark, the judges who were familiar with my pup exclaimed to the gallery; "who ever gets wet first, has to get the duck!". It was priceless.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Granddaddy said:


> In an amateur stake, I rec'd a placement (& I'm appreciative for any placement I receive). After folks disbursed somewhat, one of the judge came up to me without any inquiry from me and said, " you probably thought you should have won since your dog was the only one to have no hunts but the line your dog took to the long bird did not indicate a positive mark". I guess my mouth dropped a little. I asked what was wrong with the line. The judge said, "now I don't judge lines but* I don't think a dog should bow away from the AOF of the short mark that my dog had already retrieved* (this was a near over/under where the under was a flyer wiping out the long bird) *when going for the long mark, it just doesn't demonstrate good training".* So I couldn't help myself, I said so you don't judge lines but it kept me from winning, & apparently you don't judge hunts on marks either since as you said my dog didn't hunt.
> 
> I felt much better about my placement prior to that conversation......



Holy moly...


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

I was running water in a NAHRA Intermediate test with one judge known to be a horses a$$ from time to time. Heather landed and turned to come to heel. As I reached down for the bird, she took several slow steps backward ... step, step, step ... right between the spread knees of this judge. Then she shook off the water the cold and really dank water. I was somewhat new and didn't know what to do except apologize. Out of the gallery came a voice, later ID'd as his wife's, "That's OK. I wish I'd thought of that myself."


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## swampcollielover (Nov 30, 2012)

At a Junior Hunt using live flyers, the gun before me did no kill the duck. It flopped all the way back to he line. The judges hung it in the rack, I did not notice as I approached the line that he had not 'dispatched' the duck prior to hanging it. Just at the test started and the mark was thrown, that duck started flopping and making a racket in the rack. Of course my girl looked back to see what was going on. Yep, she missed the mark. I asked for a 're-do' and the judge said "no" run your dog. She was not trained on handling but I sent her anyway (my mistake) I should have left he line and protest the test! She of course had know idea where the mark was. She did not find the bird, and I then tried to protest, to no avail.....it is these little oddities that newbies need to learn better....by the way this dog passed all future tests for her JH....


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## mostlygold (Aug 5, 2006)

One I best remember at a MH test. Walk up water blind, dry shot goes off as you are walking up with your dog and your gun. Test dog handler goes up and when he arrives at line turns to hand the gun off so he can run the blind. Judge tells him he must keep the gun thru the blind. When told that this was against the rules, the judge states "this is my test and you will run it the way I say it will be run". This individual does not judge anymore by popular demand.

At a JH test judge tells handlers that they can not speak to their dogs after the bird is down and their number is given. One handler asks "then how do we send our dogs?" Judge states you can give them a command to retrieve but can't say anything else. Another judge not asked back anymore.

SH test. No sight blind. Dog and handler on one side of low dike. Line to blind is angle up and over the blind and then down into the water. Judges instructions are you can't move up until your dog is in the water. Handler asks "how do we know when they are in the water if we don't move up to top of the hill?" Judge tells them to listen for a splash. You can probably guess how well that went.


Dawn


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

I once asked a judge " so your throwing an out of order inline at a seasoned test " to which he responded " no you can pick them up in any order "


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

I was in the holding blind waiting my turn to run the land blind at a Q and the poor guy in front of me was having a terrible time of it. The judges asked that he call him in.After the yelling started his dog ran around long enough to find the bird. On the way out the judge looked at the guy (they were friends) and said " next time just send him on hunt em up"


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

"SH test. No sight blind. Dog and handler on one side of low dike. Line to blind is angle up and over the blind and then down into the water. Judges instructions are you can't move up until your dog is in the water. Handler asks "how do we know when they are in the water if we don't move up to top of the hill?" Judge tells them to listen for a splash. You can probably guess how well that went."


I remember that one, Dawn! Glad he isn't around any more. Totally ridiculous test for a hunting dog.......-Paul


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## moonstonelabs (Mar 17, 2006)

I met the great Roy Mcfall years ago as we were waiting for placements in an AA stake. When they called his dogs name for 2nd place he spit....on my boot and said "I guess you won". Sure enough Libby won. Several months later I saw Roy at another trial. He ran up to me and said (I guess we were friends now)"Bill you'll never guess what the judge said to me last week when I asked why I wasn't called back. The judge pulled out my sheet took his pencil and scribbled all over the page telling me my dog put up a big hunt. What do you think of that". I smiled and said good as I walked away. 

Bill


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

moonstonelabs said:


> I met the great Roy Mcfall years ago as we were waiting for placements in an AA stake. When they called his dogs name for 2nd place he spit....on my boot and said "I guess you won". Sure enough Libby won. Several months later I saw Roy at another trial. He ran up to me and said (I guess we were friends now)"Bill you'll never guess what the judge said to me last week when I asked why I wasn't called back. The judge pulled out my sheet took his pencil and scribbled all over the page telling me my dog put up a big hunt. What do you think of that". I smiled and said good as I walked away.
> 
> Bill


Bill, you have told variations of that same story here at least twice... I call BS on the spitting on your boot part at a minimum.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Years ago, running a young Lab at her first HRC Started test. The first water mark is pretty close to, if not a bit over, the max limit for distance, but falls into the far edge of a nice, open pond, about fifteen feet from the bank. The dog was locked on the mark, and when I sent her, she took a nice line....until the last few yards, when for some reason unknown to anybody but her, she decided to veer to the right and got out of the water. She started hunting the bank hard...back and forth...never looking to the water. I figured my best option was to time a "here" whistle as she crossed the line between me and the bird so she'd look that way. It took three passes and three whistles, the last of which was rather emotional and as loud as I could make it. She finally looked up, saw the bird, jumped in and grabbed it. The judges, bless 'em both, were laughing, and one said "If you'd like to wade out there and get it, we're pretty sure the pea from your whistle blew out on that last whistle and landed in the pond."


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

A contestant was running the land blind in a Qualifying stake. Blind was placed at the crest oof a distant rise. The guy gambled at the end, thinking his dog would wind the bird, so he "saved" a whistle. Dog disappeared over the rise and didn't reappear. After what seemed like 5 minutes, he turns to the judges in all seriousness and asks "If I yell HERE, I'm out, right?" To which the judge responds "Oh, you were out a long time ago!" 

"NOOOO HERE!!!!"


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Dan Wegner said:


> A contestant was running the land blind in a Qualifying stake. Blind was placed at the crest oof a distant rise. _*The guy gambled at the end, thinking his dog would wind the bird, so he "saved" a whistle.* _ Dog disappeared over the rise and didn't reappear. After what seemed like 5 minutes, he turns to the judges in all seriousness and asks "If I yell HERE, I'm out, right?" To which the judge responds "Oh, you were out a long time ago!"
> 
> "NOOOO HERE!!!!"


As if by lining the blind with no whistle versus one whistle at the bird was going to be the difference in the trial. I never got that mentality.


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

A few years ago at a qual. And us being green. My dog 1 whistled a water blind that was not far off shore. I was feeling rather proud he even got there and then the bubble burst. 
The judge " you did realize that was a water blind didnt you. 

To make matters worse he turned to the gallery and said something like. It is a water blind we expect the dog to get in 

True story 
Dk


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Running a Derby many years ago in ID with the late Pete Lane (awesome judge) as on of the judges. We had manage to slide through the 1st 2 series in the days of single, single, Double, Double. Nice wide open double which my dog split the difference & never had a clue. I asked the judges to help him & Pete replies "if you can tell us which bird he thinks he's after we'll be glad to".


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## 12mcrebel (Jan 14, 2011)

"Boy do you know what your biggest problem is?" Me- naw. "It's that curly haired dog of yours."


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## CharlieC (Jul 26, 2012)

I had my first hunt test dog and was running for her JH title. Sadie nailed both land marks and was called beck for the water series. Went for the first bird in the water and as she was sent for the last bird the judge turns to me and says it would be hard to pass her as she had dropped the bird and then picked it up again to give it to me. I thought why did he even let her run the water marks if that was a disqualifier. Sure enough she nailed the last retrieve, but dropped the bird and shook off the water, then picked the bird up again and gave it to me. Judge said fail, without thinking, I said,"That is OK, I don't want a cheap title anyway.
Came home and worked on the problem and got her title at Atlanta Retriever Club the next test entered. Learned a lot with that first lab.


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## blind ambition (Oct 8, 2006)

CharlieC said:


> the judge turns to me and says it would be hard to pass her as she had dropped the bird and then picked it up again to give it to me. I thought why did he even let her run the water marks if that was a disqualifier. Judge said fail, without thinking, I said,"That is OK, I don't want a cheap title anyway.


Is that in the AKC HT rule book? It certainly wouldn't fail you in the CKC at any test level, including Masters unless your dog was setting the bird down to chew on it. However, your parting comment could be construed by some as un-sportsmanlike conduct and that could get you dropped from the test, although your dog could continue and perhaps even qualify with another handler.


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## Zman1001 (Oct 15, 2009)

blind ambition said:


> Is that in the AKC HT rule book? It certainly wouldn't fail you in the CKC at any test level, including Masters unless your dog was setting the bird down to chew on it. However, your parting comment could be construed by some as un-sportsmanlike conduct and that could get you dropped from the test, although your dog could continue and perhaps even qualify with another handler.


Yes, it could fail you. But it would have to be a repeated offense. It all comes down to how many times did the dog do it (if on all 4 birds, then trainability it not there). How many times did the handler have to tell them to fetch it up on each bird, etc., etc. Now from the description provided, it looks like the handler never had to say fetch one time, just that the dog dropped the bird, shook off, and immediately picked it right back up to deliver to hand of handler. I personally would have a hard time not passing a dog with that description, even if it happened on all 4 birds (assuming the handler never had to say fetch one time).

I also do not look at his response as being unsportsmanlike, unless there was direct intent in the delivery. Again, following everything, my first read is that is most likely a parting joke comment, but then again, tone does not come out in typed words.


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

One of my favorite quotes was by a judge after the new AKC directive to "shoulder the gun" as the birds are thrown. "If you fail to shoulder the gun during the first series I am going to give you a gun warning". "If you fail to shoulder the gun in all three series, you will leave with 3 gun warnings".


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## CharlieC (Jul 26, 2012)

Zman1001 said:


> Yes, it could fail you. But it would have to be a repeated offense. It all comes down to how many times did the dog do it (if on all 4 birds, then trainability it not there). How many times did the handler have to tell them to fetch it up on each bird, etc., etc. Now from the description provided, it looks like the handler never had to say fetch one time, just that the dog dropped the bird, shook off, and immediately picked it right back up to deliver to hand of handler. I personally would have a hard time not passing a dog with that description, even if it happened on all 4 birds (assuming the handler never had to say fetch one time).
> 
> I also do not look at his response as being unsportsmanlike, unless there was direct intent in the delivery. Again, following everything, my first read is that is most likely a parting joke comment, but then again, tone does not come out in typed words.



You must have been there because you got it all right. My parting comment was just a light hearted joke. I was not mad at the judge for failing her, but why would you let her run the whole test if that is failing in junior? As I said, I was not upset over failing, but the pro that I bought Sadie from and sent her back for training was livid and yes she did watch the dog run. 
As for judges in general, we ask the to do a job and they may come from long distances or have to take off from work to do what we asked them to do. I went to the test and by doing so i asked for his opinion and got it. I learned something in every test I ran her in and that was worth the cost of entering. Thank you all who take the time to judge.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

fishduck said:


> One of my favorite quotes was by a judge after the new AKC directive to "shoulder the gun" as the birds are thrown. "If you fail to shoulder the gun during the first series I am going to give you a gun warning". "If you fail to shoulder the gun in all three series, you will leave with 3 gun warnings".


Love that one!


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Hey Bockmon can that potlicker give my boots a spitshine?


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

"damn, he's taking the best line of the day so far.........oh, I shouldn't have said that and jinxed it".. Thanks Ted...


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> Rope is the most important dog training tool ever. most overlooked and underused tool as well. you can do so much with a few chunks of rope at a few different lengths. add a stick and a post and a helperand heck you may as well turn pro.
> Ken Bora
> 
> Got Rope?


Does baling twine count? Is so, I don't leave home without it!

Sue Puff


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## Quacktastic (Oct 4, 2013)

Running a senior test with my firebreather.

"Can you slow that son of a bitch down? I'm still trying to write down his score from the first mark, and he is over there ready to run his water blind.


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## Frank G (Feb 18, 2013)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> "damn, he's taking the best line of the day so far.........oh, I shouldn't have said that and jinxed it".. Thanks Ted...


Had the same thing happen in a derby recently. After running two good land series and doing a nice job on the go bird in the third (and final series), I sent her for the memory bird and heard, " that's the nicest line we've seen today on that bird" right before she hooked left, split the difference and ended up back in the old AOF! Kiss of death.


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