# Electronic Catalogs



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

We expected this, no more printed catalogs, from Entry Express

The purpose of this email is to let you know that we were notified last week by our printing vendor that, due to “equipment problems”, they would not be able to print our catalogs now, or in the foreseeable future. So, out of necessity, we were forced to come up with an alternative to our traditional printed catalog.

In addition to the equipment problem, we’ve seen our costs for catalogs increase as the cost of both paper and ink have risen and we’ve had to pass those costs along to the clubs just as our printer has passed them along to us. We expect a future where these costs will only continue to rise. Also, shipping reliability is non-existent, and with $5 + dollar per gallon fuel, the surcharges are back and higher than ever. These higher costs have caused many clubs to request a reduction in the number of catalogs ordered. We accommodate as best we can, but the printer has a minimum run of 100 catalogs, or rather they charge for 100 even if producing 20.

For these reasons, we have decided to go to electronic catalogs (ecatalogs). These catalogs can be saved to your smart device and do not require internet connectivity after they have been saved. We’ve been contemplating this for some time now and had already received AKC guidance on how secretaries should mark up the ecatalog, and where to send when complete. Some secretaries will be happy to know that triplicate is no longer needed, as the completed ecatalog can be sent to as many email addresses as required.

You will be receiving the catalog for the upcoming event you are entered in via email in the next couple of days. The email will contain a few details and helpful tips on pulling the catalog up on your mobile device. We’ve tested two applications and recommend using one of these unless you are already familiar with other applications. Secretaries, you will receive a separate email which will include the marshal sheets and a short tutorial on signing the books on your mobile device along with a few other details.

For iphone and ipad users we recommend Books (Apple Books), and for Android users, we recommend Adobe Acrobat Reader: edit. Both apps are available free from your app store and offer capability to swipe pages like a paper book. In addition, you can mark up the catalogs with pen, marker, highlighter, and text tools, bookmark pages for quick reference, and to view single page, multi-page, or book-marked pages only. 

You can also check our Frequently Asked Questions in the next few days for additional information.

Moving forward, we will work with an application developer to make a custom app which will offer more interactive features for users.

We understand this is a big change, but we sincerely believe users will find the ecatalog a far more cost-effective solution for clubs and great user experience.



Sincerely,

Entry Express


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

More cost effective? Maybe. 
Great user experience? Not for me


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Ok I guess. Hope it will.work in the areas without cell phone service. I always liked to browse the paper catalog.


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## DavidC (Feb 2, 2015)

Ted Shih said:


> More cost effective? Maybe.
> Great user experience? Not for me


I'll withhold final judgment until I deal with a catalog-less trial next weekend (as a committee member, helper, and competitor).

My initial take is I don't like the change. I just don't see everyone standing around the stake marshal editing their pdf catalog while call-backs are being given. Maybe it's just me.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

When I first joined a club we did our random draw from entry forms mailed to us in Betsy Bernhards big wooden salad bowl. Then created our own catalogs. Without pages of advertising! Then Shayne had an idea and changed our world. Then it changed hands. Like anything ( tritronics to garmen) the original was best.
Perhaps it it time to go back to our roots.
I produced many catalogs. I am sure many clubs have members who did as well.


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

I suppose you can print off the callback sheets ahead of time if you really need a paper version. My question is will EE be reducing the cost of its service now that catalogs won’t be supplied?


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

Well as one of the 18 guinea pig clubs next week I appreciate them trying to do something 
However I ll reserve an opinion till the chips fall
All this tech is the coming thing but I ve got an I phone 7 and I haven’t got an Apple Pencil Nor do I have “ books” 
The idea sounds great especially conceived in an office with a desk top and no rain or mud. 
I can just see me trying to get a judges X in the rain. 
The Plan: 
since Bwrc doesn’t have a credit card and we write the AKC a check ( meaning we mail anyway) my plan is to print a couple of catalogs , Mark them up and sign them as we ve always done , stick the secretary’s report in plus the check and mail it in. 
wonder how all this works on a misconduct issue and being a Marshall next weekend is borderline absurd!
We re secretary for 3 trials this spring - after the first wave and the faults surface then maybe. If anyone truly thinks this is the cat meow please step forward to volunteer as a ft Secretary! 
I have a hard enough time being competitive without new rocks in the road to distract my weak ass! 
A dead battery in my cell will cap it all off. 
excuse my rant as we had Mexican tonight and 2 margaritas! burp hiccup fart and blurred vision nevertheless


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## Don Smith (Mar 23, 2004)

My wife and stepdaughter show a lot of dogs in conformation as well as obedience and rally. I just mentioned this to my stepdaughter and she said that Moss-Bow, the dog show superintendent who's been around since long before I showed dogs 50 years ago, has had ecatalogs for some time. You can also get a printed catalog. However, she said, she believes per AKC rule, that ecatalogs can't be made available until 30 minutes before the starting time of the event. That presents serious concerns at some of our venues because Internet connectivity is either not available or spotty at best. Even though you won't need connectivity once it's downloaded, it will be needed for download. That could be a major problem.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

FIrst thing that came to mind was, "well that sucks". It was bound to happen. A lot of community theaters (where programs are also widely used) are going to e-programs now. I expect clubs will anticipate those participating in the event will print off their own callbacks lists. Write in the rain paper is probably going to be the next hot commodity for retriever event supplies..... LOL.

I'd be surprised if EE didn't raise the rates for the premiums being electronic. Convenience fee for making things simpler. LOL

Dave - you have to put your reading glasses on, not your 'beer goggles' (or margarita magnifiers?) That might help.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Don Smith said:


> However, she said, she believes per AKC rule, that ecatalogs can't be made available until 30 minutes before the starting time of the event.


The Red River trial starts next Friday. The catalog was available for download yesterday.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Don Smith said:


> My wife and stepdaughter show a lot of dogs in conformation as well as obedience and rally. I just mentioned this to my stepdaughter and she said that Moss-Bow, the dog show superintendent who's been around since long before I showed dogs 50 years ago, has had ecatalogs for some time. You can also get a printed catalog. However, she said, she believes per AKC rule, that ecatalogs can't be made available until 30 minutes before the starting time of the event. That presents serious concerns at some of our venues because Internet connectivity is either not available or spotty at best. Even though you won't need connectivity once it's downloaded, it will be needed for download. That could be a major problem.


I received the e catalog for the field trial 3/18 yesterday, I am going to print the Marshall sheets. It is unclear to me how to get the file to one of the recommended apps. YouTube video demo link, looks cumbersome on the iPhone, I plan to download to my IPad.


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## Don Smith (Mar 23, 2004)

EdA said:


> I received the e catalog for the field trial 3/18 yesterday, ...


That's good to know. Thanks.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

I downloaded to Acrobat Reader and yes you can mark and edit the catalog….…for $69.99 annually
Apple Books seems easier but marking callbacks is cumbersome for me, work in progress….


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## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

I recieved the Black Warrior catalog yesterday. I can't mark them in Adobe either. And I have apple books on the phone but I can't make it work. I'll watch the youtube, but I really hate this. Really hate this. Printing out the marshals sheets is great if you have a printer which I don't because I'm in a motel 2,000 miles from home.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

I’ll just continue to take a picture of the callback sheet after each series.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I’ll just continue to take a picture of the callback sheet after each series.


Which is great but then I mark them next to names, hard to do a tiny check mark with an index finger on an IPhone screen. I don’t think this is going to be popular.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

dr_dog_guy said:


> I recieved the Black Warrior catalog yesterday. I can't mark them in Adobe either. And I have apple books on the phone but I can't make it work. I'll watch the youtube, but I really hate this. Really hate this. Printing out the marshals sheets is great if you have a printer which I don't because I'm in a motel 2,000 miles from home.


So now, in addition to finding a pet friendly hotel, need to find one with a business center with a printer…


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Tech change and old people sport.......TROUBLE!

I don't even have a dog right now and I hate it!


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

& now it goes from: Are you smart enough to train a dog? to: Be tech efficient to 
be able to exhibit them.  



roseberry said:


> Tech change and old people sport.......TROUBLE!
> 
> I don't even have a dog right now and I hate it!


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## road kill (Feb 15, 2009)

I have all of the catalogs of all the events my dog's ever ran.
They make/made for nice souvenirs.


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## Bob Walton (Jan 1, 2007)

As someone who puts on a few trials every year and having been around long enough to remember doing the old manual draw process, I'm not looking forward to these changes. If it's no longer available from Entry Express then it certainly opens up a business opportunity for someone else to pursue. Hopefully in the end , the consumer gets the product that they want.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

road kill said:


> I have all of the catalogs of all the events my dog's ever ran.
> They make/made for nice souvenirs.


I keep mine as well, great for brainstorming judges at event committee meetings.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

If it was up to me there would be paper catalogs next weekend. It isn’t so I’ll just focus on my pup and getting to the next series.


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## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

EdA said:


> So now, in addition to finding a pet friendly hotel, need to find one with a business center with a printer…


Exactly. And for those of us who look for low budget, dog friendly motels, business centers are a luxury that are often absent.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

The "paperless" trend started in the mid '80's in the businesses I worked. It's a miracle it took this long for Entry Express to have attempted implementation.

I have tried "paperless" in many aspects of business and personal life with some successes and some failures. The most notsble failure had to be the bidet Mrs Sherry wanted that time.

Maybe your club's porta-potty provider will stay "old school"!


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

Dr. Ed, I have had Adobe Reader for decades and have never paid for it. You should be able to download for free. You can use “comments” or “edit” function in Adobe to mark a document. I have never used it on my phone—hate the small screen and don’t like typing without a keyboard. 

I am probably in the minority in that I don’t keep my catalogs and I don’t keep track of call-backs other than my own If I see a dog I really like I will look it up in the catalog, but I can do that on EE too.

Meredith


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## J. Marti (May 2, 2014)

What format are the e-catalogs coming in? Are they PDFs?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Yes pdf files


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

mwk56 said:


> Dr. Ed, I have had Adobe Reader for decades and have never paid for it. You should be able to download for free. You can use “comments” or “edit” function in Adobe to mark a document. I have never used it on my phone—hate the small screen and don’t like typing without a keyboard.
> 
> I am probably in the minority in that I don’t keep my catalogs and I don’t keep track of call-backs other than my own If I see a dog I really like I will look it up in the catalog, but I can do that on EE too.
> 
> Meredith


I am admittedly technologically stupid but I downloaded to Acrobat then clicked on the pencil marker in the lower R corner and was informed I could take a test drive or subscribe for $69.99 annually.


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## MarniSampair (Aug 8, 2016)

Being the Secretary of Chippewa Valley Retriever Club I will be printing some kind of form of Catalog for our exhibitors. Because I’m that kind of host. I also keep track of Judges “Beverage of choice”. Just trying to grow our Club! Looking forward to seeing all of you in Deer Park, WI July 23-24, 2022 & September 30-October 2, 2022 in Mondovi, WI
“Shameless Plug” 😜
-Marni Sampair


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

First of all, why should EE be guaranteed a certain margin? Should that not move around like each of our respective businesses?
And since we have been paying for “ink” and printing costs anyway, should entire line item thus be reduced from the cost?

bunch of bullshit.


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## Thomas Running (Sep 19, 2011)

Would someone please post a sample catalog so we could try to figure things out before the real deal comes up. Kind of like "Field Trial, Hunt Test for Dummies".


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Not sure if this will work.
Red River Trial catalog and marshal sheets attached


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## Thomas Running (Sep 19, 2011)

Our club is also looking into Digital Porta-Johns.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Thomas Running said:


> Our club is also looking into Digital Porta-Johns.


Would be just as good as the ones that are often seen way out past the long gun in a test or on property a couple miles away that the judges chose not to use.


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## Bluegoose (Jul 12, 2018)

EdA said:


> I am admittedly technologically stupid but I downloaded to Acrobat then clicked on the pencil marker in the lower R corner and was informed I could take a test drive or subscribe for $69.99 annually.


Ed, 
Here’s the link for your iPad/iPhone;









‎PDF Expert: Read, Edit, & Sign


‎PDF Expert is the go-to PDF editor for iPhone, iPad and Mac. Read PDF files with ease, highlight and annotate PDFs for unified note-taking, fill out forms and easily create/add notes right from all of your devices. Our app is more than a PDF reader – unlock unlimited possibilities with PDF...



apps.apple.com


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## PalouseDogs (Mar 28, 2012)

I am a fan of printed catalogs. I have boxes of OB trial and hunt tests catalogs and actually refer to them when I'm trying to remember the name of a person or dog I saw at a trial, etc.

That said, I can see a lot of potential for on-line catalogs, but EE's implementation doesn't seem to be taking advantage of the potential. It appears, from what I'm reading here, that EE is just putting the paper in the form of PDFs. If they want to win people over to the benefits, they need to take advantage of the online format. 

At a minimum, have a web page, editable by the judges and/or trial secretary, that shows callbacks in real time, similar to the Retriever Nationals, with simple codes for handles, pick-ups, drops, etc. Handlers wouldn't have to try to figure out where and when callbacks would be posted. 

Other possibilities would include a link attached to each entry that would pull up dog info and event history.


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## MarniSampair (Aug 8, 2016)

Thomas Running said:


> Would someone please post a sample catalog so we could try to figure things out before the real deal comes up. Kind of like "Field Trial, Hunt Test for Dummies".


I will reach out to a friend at Retriever News Monday. Since we aren’t running in a Field Trial in awhile, might be nice to do a test-run before it’s “go time”


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## MarniSampair (Aug 8, 2016)

Thomas Running said:


> Our club is also looking into Digital Porta-Johns.


🤣 good one!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Bluegoose said:


> Ed,
> Here’s the link for your iPad/iPhone;
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, I will take it for a test drive


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## Paul "Happy" Gilmore (Aug 4, 2021)

EdA said:


> I downloaded to Acrobat Reader and yes you can mark and edit the catalog….…for $69.99 annually
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Paul "Happy" Gilmore (Aug 4, 2021)

Rac


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

You could save as a Word doc and then be able to make notes or mark.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

EdA said:


> Thank you, I will take it for a test drive


$49.99/year for the editable version, not a lot of money but the principle offends me. I printed out the Marshall sheets and put them on a clipboard to keep up with callbacks. Hopefully EE will develop and supply contestants with a useable app in lieu of printing catalogs. I have suggested a bulletin board on EE or RN where people can post callbacks. Technology should make things easier not more complicated.


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## fowlweather (Feb 22, 2005)

EdA said:


> $49.99/year for the editable version, not a lot of money but the principle offends me. I printed out the Marshall sheets and put them on a clipboard to keep up with callbacks. Hopefully EE will develop and supply contestants with a useable app in lieu of printing catalogs. I have suggested a bulletin board on EE or RN where people can post callbacks. Technology should make things easier not more complicated.


You should be able to hold your finger on the pdf that was emailed to you on your phone and “save to file”


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## Andy (Apr 20, 2004)

road kill said:


> I have all of the catalogs of all the events my dog's ever ran.
> They make/made for nice souvenirs.


I don't keep them all, but if one of my dogs happens to get a blue ribbon in any stake, that catalog is a keeper (I don't have a whole bunch ...).
Hand-written letters and "real" photographs have also been pretty much eliminated due to technology ... which is, in my opinion, very unfortunate. 
Andy


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## Jesus Ochoa (Apr 10, 2018)

I didn't buy the app and it let's me mark the callback sheet . The heading for the tools is wat different from what was described and slow too.


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## MarniSampair (Aug 8, 2016)

Here is the video link on instructions from EE:


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## Mucker (Aug 19, 2005)

Notability and Goodnotes are other apps that will allow you to mark on PDFs. One time purchase price (pretty reasonable I believe).


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## bakbay (May 20, 2003)

I downloaded the Red River catalog attached to post #33 to both my iPhone and iPad and had no trouble marking it in the Books application. Just touch the top of the screen and select the pen to enter edit mode; pick a pen type and a color and write using either a finger or one of the special pens that are available to use on touch screens.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

The thing is, as big a business as EE, why do they not have a viable backup plan? I don't have any of the devices mentioned and know that the Cattle Ranch has miserable connectvity.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

MarniSampair said:


> Here is the video link on instructions from EE:


I found this to be largely unintelligible due to the poor volume.Is it my ears or does everyone have the same problem.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Eric Johnson said:


> The thing is, as big a business as EE, why do they not have a viable backup plan? I don't have any of the devices mentioned and know that the Cattle Ranch has miserable connectvity.


I think you can download to your phone or tablet and save as a document for offline use


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Dunno. I'm really old school. I still wish pocket phones had dials.<g>


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

EdA said:


> I think you can download to your phone or tablet and save as a document for offline use


Correct


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## J. Marti (May 2, 2014)

Eric Johnson said:


> I found this to be largely unintelligible due to the poor volume.Is it my ears or does everyone have the same problem.


This really is low volume. It might help to open the closed captioning button on youtube.com

I've marked it with a yellow arrow.













YouTube link for video:


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## philipcarsonlaw (11 mo ago)

Ted Shih said:


> More cost effective? Maybe.
> Great user experience? Not for me





Ted Shih said:


> More cost effective? Maybe.
> Great user experience? Not for me


Come on Ted, you can do it.


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

philipcarsonlaw said:


> Come on Ted, you can do it.


Welcome aboard Philip.
Tell the boys at the park I said "Hi" 😉


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## Paul "Happy" Gilmore (Aug 4, 2021)

Had numbers missing on ours. Lol already snafus


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## MarniSampair (Aug 8, 2016)

J. Marti said:


> This really is low volume. It might help to open the closed captioning button on youtube.com
> 
> I've marked it with a yellow arrow.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the “Closed Caption” idea! This way I can multitask. I’ll probably have to refer to the instructions many times while pretending to watch a show my husband picked out.


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

I just got home from running and working Red River's trial. I want to let everyone know that there is an option. HuntSecretary.com is and has been set up to handle AKC events and we would be happy to handle your next trial or hunt test that isn't currently active on EE. We offer printed catalogs and reports as part of our entry service. if you have any questions you can reach myself or Helena by phone or email.

Janet - 281-924-5024 or [email protected]
Helena - 936-852-2080 or [email protected]


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Hunt secretary has been handling entries for NAHRA Field Tests for a long while. I recently needed to be able to edit my clubs premium for our test in June. Quick easy telephone call will a real person answering. Actually reminded me of the old days calling Shayne and Stacey! 
They do a great job for NAHRA .


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

Well we completed the Black Warrior Ft today. 
1 of 18 EE posted events that worked in the modified format. Our solution was to print 2 catalogs and the judges signed those The “ “old fashioned “ Way worked. 

There was a lot of bitching about the catalogs just a lot. Some had printed catalogs based on the info EE had supplied. Most hadn’t however they knew their numbers. 

It was a painful experience; as example #3 was #3. You don’t know the handler nor breeding as it’s just a number on the board. 
Plus to add insult ; EE charges .80 an entry for the catalog info. If u say .80 quickly it doesn’t sound to bad however my guess is thousands of entries a year and it will mount up. 

I m just very disappointed at this recent turn of events.


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## Paul "Happy" Gilmore (Aug 4, 2021)

We had numbers missing at the ACC trial. Not dogs. Just numbers


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Saw it this weekend, basically the club printed out the book and filled it in as usual; someone will later scan it and e-mail I believe. Seems pretty dumb I mean if they were going to do this why didn't they create a Standard Acrobat format signing option, attached to their website under the club account where judges-hunt sect. can check and sign. Or simply have the judges sign the call-back sheet (which lists all number on one page) take a pic and upload to the site. Seems like a very easy tech option. Also there is no link under the club event to actually download or view the catalog you have to use they email the send you. Just put a link up under the event rather than emailing 100+ people; While we are at it lets put a few links to call-backs so you can check electronically right on the EE page, as the test proceeds. I ended up getting a ecatolog from an event in TX my event was in SoCAL not sure what happened there. But as I didn't get my catalog I couldn't look at anything, except the running order already posted on EE, so at least i knew my dog number but nothing else.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Just put a link up under the event rather than emailing 100+ people; While we are at it lets put a few links to call-backs so you can check electronically right on the EE page, as the test proceeds.


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## zydecogator (Aug 21, 2008)

Lessons Learned: The printed catalog has many functions that have evolved over the years. All Clubs need to now been even better prepared at all stakes to answer questions not only pertaining to running order and callbacks (white boards are invaluable) but also critical information such as emergency contact info, vet info, event committee names and contact info, AKC rules and guidance (e.g., misconduct, injuries, double staking) etc. Please make sure this information is in your Marshall boxes!


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Dave Kress said:


> Well we completed the Black Warrior Ft today.
> 1 of 18 EE posted events that worked in the modified format. Our solution was to print 2 catalogs and the judges signed those The “ “old fashioned “ Way worked.
> 
> There was a lot of bitching about the catalogs just a lot. Some had printed catalogs based on the info EE had supplied. Most hadn’t however they knew their numbers.
> ...


$0.80 per entry? That is a lot especially when the charge to get a printed catalogue was $2.50 per catalogue.

Also a lot of people in FTs are like Gibbs on NCIS - still using flip phones.


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## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

zydecogator said:


> Lessons Learned: The printed catalog has many functions that have evolved over the years. All Clubs need to now been even better prepared at all stakes to answer questions not only pertaining to running order and callbacks (white boards are invaluable) but also critical information such as emergency contact info, vet info, event committee names and contact info, AKC rules and guidance (e.g., misconduct, injuries, double staking) etc. Please make sure this information is in your Marshall boxes!


This is ridiculous. As if the grounds for every trial has cell reception or wifi! A fair amount of the information only available via those pdfs are occasionally important or even critical. Only the marshals sheet files are small enough to print personally to bring with you (a new task for personal FT preparation); the committee, the vet, etc all of that information can be essentially unavailable. Cities are wired; many field trial grounds are not.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Use Apple Books and get a stylus pen. It makes editing a lot easier. You can even save a electronic signature to sign books.


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## Gary M (Dec 5, 2008)

I just watched my Pro trainer pull out an old flip phone, that he got from his Mom. What could possibly go wrong!


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

Dave Kress said:


> Well we completed the Black Warrior Ft today.
> 1 of 18 EE posted events that worked in the modified format. Our solution was to print 2 catalogs and the judges signed those The “ “old fashioned “ Way worked.
> 
> There was a lot of bitching about the catalogs just a lot. Some had printed catalogs based on the info EE had supplied. Most hadn’t however they knew their numbers.
> ...


 Are you going to post your result any time soon?


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## RJG (Feb 18, 2005)

Dave Kress said:


> Well we completed the Black Warrior Ft today.
> 1 of 18 EE posted events that worked in the modified format. Our solution was to print 2 catalogs and the judges signed those The “ “old fashioned “ Way worked.
> 
> There was a lot of bitching about the catalogs just a lot. Some had printed catalogs based on the info EE had supplied. Most hadn’t however they knew their numbers.
> ...


That .80 for each email seems life a scam/rip-off to me.


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## RJG (Feb 18, 2005)

Dave Kress said:


> Well we completed the Black Warrior Ft today.
> 1 of 18 EE posted events that worked in the modified format. Our solution was to print 2 catalogs and the judges signed those The “ “old fashioned “ Way worked.
> 
> There was a lot of bitching about the catalogs just a lot. Some had printed catalogs based on the info EE had supplied. Most hadn’t however they knew their numbers.
> ...


I agree, Dave. Ridiculous to charge .80 for an email. Scam/rip off...


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## Daren Galloway (Jun 28, 2012)

I kinda like the ecatelogs. Easy to take a screen shot and send to people or post on social media.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Just judged my first trial since the conversion to paperless. It’s awful, especially at the open where pros have 10-20 dogs. Handling catalogs is 100 times easier at the end signing and calling out placements is a joke.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

What is the $.80 for. The owner/handlers enter the data. The owners/handlers gather that data from the site. What does $.80 per dog pay for? Is that the only income EE has for events?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

bjoiner said:


> Just judged my first trial since the conversion to paperless. It’s awful, especially at the open where pros have 10-20 dogs. Handling catalogs is 100 times easier at the end signing and calling out placements is a joke. I’m 100% in support of moving to another service if they can’t find a better option.


If several clubs jump ship they will get the message. HuntSecretary.com should aggressively pursue field trial clubs now if they want it to grow.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

EdA said:


> If several clubs jump ship they will get the message. HuntSecretary.com should aggressively pursue field trial clubs now if they want it to grow.


Could happen, justified or not, there is quite a bit of animosity toward EE.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

I get that it costs money to typeset the catalogues for printing. I'm just surprised that it is $0.80 per entry. I'm not sure what I expected EE fee would be, it didn't occur to me that this cost them money till now. But of course it does - someone had to write software, someone has to run the program using the entries, someone has to check that it works, etc...and the computers cost money.

For those of you thinking clubs can switch to Hunt Test Secretary, this will be yet another fee, and tons of extra work for the club, to record event results. A few years ago costs were another $4.50 per entry if you don't use EE:



https://www.theretrievernews.com/uploads/5/0/1/0/50103541/rn-ee_announcement.pdf


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Daren Galloway said:


> I kinda like the ecatelogs. Easy to take a screen shot and send to people or post on social media.


I wonder if eCatalogues should have been option long ago - fingers crossed I have good experience with them running trial in the future. 

Lee Kay dog training grounds gate key went blue tooth last year. A lot of people flipped out, especially those still using flip phones 😂


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

Well fellow scouts I ve got 2 events under my belt with this new “ enhancement “ One event as chair and the other as secretary. 
what I can share from experience 1) ain’t nobody yet I ve seen using a phone. 2) people are printing the callbacks page and using that 3) EE didn’t show their best side 4) anyone watch the u tube instruction where he say “ oops I didn’t mean to do that”
5 ) with time solutions will percolate 6) amusing that the ones not doing the work for the event have all the answers 
Just a worker bee and mushroom- head down and in the dark 
Dk


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Entry Express is owned by Retriever News, the names of the officers and Board of Directors are available on the Contact Us page of the RN website.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

If anyone is interested in printing a catalog, you can open the PDF document on your computer, select Print, select the Multiple under the Page Sizing & Handling section, on the Pages per sheet, select Custom 2 by 1, and select Print on both sides of paper. Tall Pines will have printed catalogs for handlers.


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## Susan Lister (Dec 31, 2011)

Thanks Dr. Ed!!!


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## djansma (Aug 26, 2004)

as a judge and a contestant I really don't like it


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Renee P. said:


> For those of you thinking clubs can switch to Hunt Test Secretary, this will be yet another fee, and tons of extra work for the club, to record event results. A few years ago costs were another $4.50 per entry if you don't use


When entry express came to be. I was an event secretary. Now I am an event chairperson setting up a NAHRA Field Test on hunt secretary. I see no extra work. Entering the data is exactly the same. 
After an akc event just record your placements or qualifications, get the signatures and mail it off to the akc. I do not understand why you would pay EE for anything.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Kenneth Niles Bora said:


> When entry express came to be. I was an event secretary. Now I am an event chairperson setting up a NAHRA Field Test on hunt secretary. I see no extra work. Entering the data is exactly the same.
> After an akc event just record your placements or qualifications, get the signatures and mail it off to the akc. I do not understand why you would pay EE for anything.


The information is in the link to the Retriever News/EE announcement I provided. 

EE tracks qualifications for National Retriever Club, National Amateur Retriever Club, Master Amateur Retriever Club, Purina Outstanding Retrievers Awards and The National Derby listing. According to that Retriever News/EE announcement, if a club doesn't use EE for an event, they have to pay recording fee of $4.50 to EE for each Master or All-Age/Derby dog entered. Someone would also have to upload the event entries to EE. I'm not exactly sure what all this entails as I have never done it, but it is certainly more work for the club. The fee and other requirements pretty much put the kibosh on economically using competing services. 

I am hoping that clubs can figure out how to economically print their own catalogues.

Here is what I am reading in the Retriever News announcement from 2016 (https://www.theretrievernews.com/uploads/5/0/1/0/50103541/rn-ee_announcement.pdf):

"Entry Express is developing a separate software tool for member and non-member clubs to utilize if they choose to not use Entry Express to administer their weekend event. These few, if any, non-participating clubs will cover the direct costs of tracking their events and be charged a recording fee of $4.50 for each Master or All-Age/ Derby dog entered with a minimum of $250.00 – this fee is for handling the qualifying tracking process.

The event entries must be loaded in Entry Express and the resulting fee paid at the time of entry into Entry Express, which must be PRIOR to the start of their event. Results must be posted to Entry Express within 48 hours of the conclusion of the event. (See Entry Express Terms of Service for more specific details, as it’s the official legal requirement for its use in this regard.) Loading event entries prior to events beginning will be a requirement for their event’s results to be included as qualifications for National Retriever Club, National Amateur Retriever Club, Master Amateur Retriever Club, Purina Outstanding Retrievers Awards and The National Derby listing. Events not loaded into Entry Express, in their entirety, in advance of the event start date will not be considered for qualification in the previously mentioned events. This obviously applies only to clubs that choose to not participate as a member club using the Entry Express systems."


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

bjoiner said:


> If anyone is interested in printing a catalog, you can open the PDF document on your computer, select Print, select the Multiple under the Page Sizing & Handling section, on the Pages per sheet, select Custom 2 by 1, and select Print on both sides of paper. Tall Pines will have printed catalogs for handlers.


Hey Bubba I sent you a PM (I think) about logistics of club self printing catalogues.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Renee P. said:


> Hey Bubba I sent you a PM (I think) about logistics of club self printing catalogues.


Before EE we printed our own catalogs, bought a heavy duty printer. Obviously technology has improved but someone still has to load the data into catalog form, print, collate, and staple. Lots of extra work for someone.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

EdA said:


> Before EE we printed our own catalogs, bought a heavy duty printer. Obviously technology has improved but someone still has to load the data into catalog form, print, collate, and staple. Lots of extra work for someone.


Fortunately that person was not me. Feeling fortunate for new technology where I/we can click buttons.

I am wondering about logistics and costs of having local printer make catalogues from what EE sends.

Edit: I wasn't envisioning club member printing 100+ catalogues from their desk side printer, but wondering how much it costs to hire the print job, if EE can get you the typeset job in time to hire the printer, etc.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Renee P. said:


> EE tracks qualifications for National Retriever Club, National Amateur Retriever Club, Master Amateur Retriever Club, Purina Outstanding Retrievers Awards and The National Derby listing.


Haven't the National and Nat Am been around longer than EE? Folks seem to have qualified before EE didn't they?


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## J. Marti (May 2, 2014)

I don't know if you have to have the traditional catalog format. Just print it out on 8 by 10 paper and stick in one of those plastic photo sheets to protect it from the weather. Some people probably wouldn't want all the sections anyway. Maybe clubs can have a line in their premium list asking to "check this box" or "initial this line" if you want a club printed 8 by 10 catalog.

Heck, you might even get local breeders or trainers or convenience stores/gas stations, whomever, to buy one big ad to pay for a lot of your printing. Wouldn't be fancy but probably give you at least a portion of the cost of printing. Or charge for your catalogs, even if they are 8 by 10 sheets of paper stuck into a photo sleeve. 

For judges, you could punch three holes in the sheets for their stake and put them into one of those folders that have the clasps for 3-hole punched paper. How many judges catalogs would you have to make? Eight?


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## J. Marti (May 2, 2014)

Kenneth Niles Bora said:


> Haven't the National and Nat Am been around longer than EE? Folks seem to have qualified before EE didn't they?


But it says to keep track of the qualifications, if using an entry service other than EE, they will charge $4.50 per Master or Derby/All Age dog with a MINIMUM CHARGE OF $250. They've built themselves a monopoly.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

J. Marti said:


> But it says to keep track of the qualifications, if using an entry service other than EE, they will charge $4.50 per Master or Derby/All Age dog with a MINIMUM CHARGE OF $250. They've built themselves a monopoly.


Unless something has changed results from the FTS are sent directly to AKC and results are sent to EE and RN. It is unclear how EE under the current system can do that, they are not an official reporting entity.


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## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

I try to limit how many times I respond to a thread as many times the subject vanishes
I’ve been though this kerfunkle twice now
Once as chair and once as secretary; not so bad for me as there was a plan however a lot of anguish and confusion out there.
EE does email all entries the catalog in printable form and layout The cost to the club is .80 per entry. 
the information/catalog sent to the AKC is the only official result. The result info posted On EE is just information however people want that
As an example I did not post the BWRC results till yesterday some 8 days after the event . There were 27 phone calls or texts about the results or lack there of . I get it 
i won’t get into the right or wrong of EE as I m the smallest guy on the block
I don’t see a return to printing and shipping catalogs but I do see clubs printing catalogs locally and the overall cost being near the same deep breathe as ht and fts will go on
Nationals will be held and it will happen 
I’m just trying to help get better info out there
Dk


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Renee P. said:


> Hey Bubba I sent you a PM (I think) about logistics of club self printing catalogues.


I think I am just going to print one copy and throw it on the copier. Our copier will put two staples on the side. People can fold it themselves. I did talk to a printer and they can handle it for around $2 each. 

As far as when the email is sent, EE sends the email as soon as the event is closed. I'm sure it's an automated process.


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## Trent Goree (Aug 10, 2005)

Janet Kimbrough, who I believe owns/runs Hunt Test Secretary, can print them off for clubs. I spoke to her about it two weeks ago at the Red River trial. She'd love to do it and is reasonably priced and also plays our game. I think it's important to support those who support us. [email protected] 
Helena Larkin also involved and you can reach her at [email protected]


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## partikalag (10 mo ago)

I suppose you can print off the callback sheets ahead of time if you really need a paper version.

video downloader mobdro app


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

The savings on a self-printed catalog, if there is a local one, will be in the shipping. I am strongly urging our club to do just that. I started with self-published, self-tabulated books and mail in premiums and with the ability to electronically transmit to a printer, see no reason we can't do it now.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

bjoiner said:


> I think I am just going to print one copy and throw it on the copier. Our copier will put two staples on the side. People can fold it themselves. I did talk to a printer and they can handle it for around $2 each.
> 
> As far as when the email is sent, EE sends the email as soon as the event is closed. I'm sure it's an automated process.


 Thank you - after I sent you message etc. I noticed that most of the info I wanted was actually in the FAQs on EE.


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## TonyK (Oct 11, 2007)

Ah ha! I knew there would be a discussion here. What a colossal screw up these eCatalogs are. It's an outdoor game in remote areas and we like having low tech paper in hand. There is nothing wrong with old school in many situations, and this is one of them. But, what do I know, I'm nobody. The dog game community is pretty small in the grand scheme, and it is a profound action for a few to flip off the rest of us as they have done. This smells a lot like the decision to allow all national field trial winners to obtain a lifetime qualification for future national ft events; and we all know how that authoritarian decision turned out. It simply speaks volumes about integrity and concern for others.

Ok, my catalog just finished printing. I'm off to the trial, with my paper. Have a nice weekend everyone. 

Tony


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## Labs R Us (Jun 25, 2010)

Sorry if this is repeat info (as I did not read all of the comments). The Good Notes app costs only $7.99. You can open documents into this app and then mark up the document. I use it on my iPhone and iPad.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

I would like to see a show superintendent enter the field of hunt test entry. The information is the same whether for a dog show of a hunt test. The entry could be made on their automated system, the catalogs, marshal sheets, etc. could all be printed. Shows charge for a catalog so the cost to the individual would be sort of a wash. When the event closes, mark up a catalog and send it in to AKC. It would really be no different that what we used to with EE except the URL of the entry page.

What it would do is tell EE that there is no reason for the users of the service to be beholden to EE failing to operate in a business-like manner as in having a plan in case the printer breaks. Frankly I don't believe that excuse. EE simply wants to make life easier for themselves while foisting the work onto the participants. They have a backwards idea of the concept of "service".


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## Jesus Ochoa (Apr 10, 2018)

What happens to all the folks who enter an event before closing? Do they get an email with the running order , I haven't recieved my online catalog for the Lone Star event.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Jesus Ochoa said:


> What happens to all the folks who enter an event before closing? Do they get an email with the running order , I haven't recieved my online catalog for the Lone Star event.


For the last couple trials I ran EE sent a program and marshals sheet by email.
Try contacting them, could be your email is not entered or is not correct?


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Jesus Ochoa said:


> What happens to all the folks who enter an event before closing? Do they get an email with the running order , I haven't recieved my online catalog for the Lone Star event.


If someone else enters your dog for you, you do not get an email. I contacted EE and asked if they would post a like to each catalog on the event page. They said they would work on it.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Jesus Ochoa said:


> What happens to all the folks who enter an event before closing? Do they get an email with the running order , I haven't recieved my online catalog for the Lone Star event.


I received the e catalog 3/30, text or PM your email and I will forward it


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## Jesus Ochoa (Apr 10, 2018)

Thanks everyone, but what I plan to do is wait and see if I get the email tonight then they can explain why they aren't providing a service that they advertise .


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Qualifying (Sat) Callbacks
1st * 2nd * 3rd * 4th *
RJ *__* JAMS *_* Series 1234
1 Allie / Martha Russell 1
2 M / Lori Morgan (A or Paul Knutson (P 2
3 Rahab / David Cuthbertson (A 3
4 Skye / Travis Echelberry (P or Troy Presley (A4
5 King / Steve Landsfeld (A 5
6 Louie / Paul Knutson (P or Anna M Curry (A 6
7 Butch / Wade Cashion (P 7
8 Paddy / Zach Campbell (A or Steve Blythe (P8
9 Ember / Catherine M Forsyth (A or Wayne Fo9rsyth (A
10 Earl / John Russell 10
11 Luke / Kay Scott (A 11
12 Starr / Mark A Edwards (P or Chris Johnson 1(A2
13 Groot / Travis Echelberry (P or Sciobahn Og1d3en (A
14 Billy / Daniel E Danforth (P 14
15 Mabel / Carson Foster (A 15
16 Salsa / Catherine M Forsyth (A or Wayne Fo1rs6yth (A
17 Buck / Rob Matthews (A 17
18 Freya / Grant Settle (P 18
19 Daisy / Mark A Edwards (P 19
20 Talli / Jody D Scott (A 20
21 Tuff / Zach Campbell (A or Steve Blythe (P 21
22 Boomer / Steve Landsfeld (A 22
23 Twitch / Brad Sawyer (A 23
24 Gem / Mark A Edwards (P 24
25 Carl / Greg Schreiner (P or Mike Riippa (A 25
26 Raider / Travis Echelberry (P 26
27 Tosh / Daniel E Danforth (P 27
28 Ozzy / David Jagger (A 28
29 Bud / Mark A Edwards (P 29
30 Sport / Rob Erhardt (P or Dave Cheatham (A30
31 Lena / Grant Settle (P 31
32 Kya / James D Roberts (A or Janet L Roberts3(2A
33 Windy / Travis Echelberry (P 33
34 Mot / Paul Knutson (P or Bev Ensley (A 34
35 Ice / Daniel E Danforth (P 35
36 Ranger / Mark A Edwards (P or Thomas J Ge3r6tz (A
37 Ziva / Wade Cashion (P 37
38 River / Ron Houdek (A 38
39 Otis / James C Windham (A or Charles E Pug3h9 (A
40 Leddy / Tom Cheatham (A 40
41 Wick / Theodore Shih (A 41
42 Man / Wade Cashion (P 42
43 GrisGris / Ellen E McNeill (A 43
44 Tess / Daniel E Danforth (P or Lorne Parker 4(A4
45 Blast / Mark A Edwards (P or Janet Kimbrou4g5h (A
46 Milli / Grant Settle (P 46
47 Cash / Rob Erhardt (P or Dave Cheatham (A47
48 Annie / Zach Campbell (A or Steve Blythe (P48
49 Boo / Jesus Ochoa (A or Mark A Edwards (P49

How’s this?


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## Jesus Ochoa (Apr 10, 2018)

Dr Ed I emailed them and received no answer as to why I never received one, they just emailed one.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Jesus Ochoa said:


> Dr Ed I emailed them and received no answer as to why I never received one, they just emailed one.


Did you enter your dog? Or did someone else?


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## Jesus Ochoa (Apr 10, 2018)

I entered the dog myself and for the last event we received the running order just not this one. And they offered no explanation.


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