# FC/AFC Wilderness Harley To Go - what do you remember?



## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

I am looking for information about FC/AFC Wilderness Harley To Go ... info beyond that he was the sire of 51 titled offspring, including 5 NFC. NAFC, CNFC, and CNFC (sire of Cosmo, sire of Abe and others). 

I know he qualified for National Opens in 1986, 1989, and 1991 and was a finalist in the 1989 National Amateur... and that he was placed in 2003 into the Hall of Fame.

What do you remember about his personality? What do you remember about his running -- stylish or no? 

What do you remember about Harley? -- the good and the bad.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

From what I understand he was a pretty average individual but he had a wonderful pedigree. He always seemed to enhance the bitch.

My first lab was outta Harley. He made me a "believer". Very stylish without being crazy and extremely easy to train. His mother was a sister to FC-AFC Candlewoods Zackley Right.

Angie


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Call Mary Howley


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

helencalif said:


> What do you remember about his personality? What do you remember about his running -- stylish or no?
> 
> What do you remember about Harley? -- the good and the bad.


Got to watch him quite a few times.

Solid
Smart
Strong marker
Always stylish, but not nuts
Drove his lines well
Wish I'd had more of his pups to train!
Evan


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

ErinsEdge said:


> Call Mary Howley


That's good advice, but here's what I remember from the time I bred Nell to him (producing a 2X Nat'l Finalist, a double header winner, and a nice MHR I kept.) He was all business with the bitch, but once that was finished, he brought me a tennis ball to throw. Nice personality and a nicely build dog. maybe a little short by today's FT norm.

Likely wasn't a field trialer's dream - too low key, though he produced such... He probably would have been a great hunting dog and best friend...

Wasn't a good dog to double up on down the line - recessives...


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## Jon Kelly (Sep 21, 2009)

Keith Stroyan said:


> Wasn't a good dog to double up on down the line - recessives...


What do you mean by recessives? I have a pup with him 4 lines back on both sire and dam side.


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

One of my best dogs and Jeff Lusk has a awesome litter mate that were tightly line bred on Harley. I would like to hear more about the "recessives".


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

As I recall there were health issues. As to what exactly I can't recall. It's been like 10 years now.

Angie


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

Mike Peters-labguy23 said:


> One of my best dogs and Jeff Lusk has a awesome litter mate that were tightly line bred on Harley. I would like to hear more about the "recessives".


I'd take another one just like him!! EIC affected and all! Axel has what it takes, minus a handler.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

I could be wrong, but I believe there were some bite issues with his get also.


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## Targander (Jul 6, 2004)

Your correct Howard...

He threw, both overshot and undershot bites. He was a drop dead gorgeous animal. Vern and him where quite the match, lol...


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Harley was owned by Jack Vandebogard not Vern Weber.


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

JeffLusk said:


> I'd take another one just like him!! EIC affected and all! Axel has what it takes, minus a handler.


Exact same story, wish I had my line bred Harley dog now and not 9 years ago!


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## Targander (Jul 6, 2004)

ErinsEdge said:


> Harley was owned by Jack Vandebogard not Vern Weber.


I understand that Nancy, but he lived most of his breeding career out with Vern.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Pics of this guy? (dog and /or vern.. ha ha..!)


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Targander said:


> I understand that Nancy, but he lived most of his breeding career out with Vern.


You are confused. Harley lived with Mary because he was bred often in his later years. You are thinking of Abe.


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## Criquetpas (Sep 14, 2004)

Call Mary Howley about the breedings as Nancy suggested.

I competed against him, shot birds for him in pre-national training and owned a bitch out of him who had 18 all-age points and 16 Derby points. Harley had a slow pick-up , sometimes standing over the birds before picking them up. (My bitch out of him did the same). Harley had what the Canadians call sacacity he, knew where the birds were on a very " dedicated" line that he would take. He was a very" steady Eddie" type dog and a fine marker. I believe he had 18 Derby Points? so he had a Derby marking attribute.

His real claim to fame was he was a producer and when bred to Tank bitches (Candlewoods Super Tanker) well there was nothing finer in my opinion. This was the era of pre -Lean Mac. I saw many of his sons and daughters run and I would love to have a Tank/Harley cross today. There may be a few straws that Jack is keeping for his Kids education!? 

He was a dog anyone would be proud to train, own and run even circa 2010.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Interesting you would say that Earl....

I hunted _a lot _over a Harley son and he had that same type of pickup, kinda "slow"...but he was deadly on his marks. We killed many birds over him and I remember only 1 (runner) that got away. 

He was NOT slow on his marks, just a little pause on his pick-up.

I have no idea if he got that slow pickup from his sire or not....and anyway, he passed about 8 years ago


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## Criquetpas (Sep 14, 2004)

Cat Squirrel said:


> Interesting you would say that Earl....
> 
> I hunted _a lot _over a Harley son and he had that same type of pickup, kinda "slow"...but he was deadly on his marks. We killed many birds over him and I remember only 1 (runner) that got away.
> 
> ...


Exactly, not slow on his destination, but would pause( I like that word) over the bird for just a moment. My Magic was also hunted on Ducks, Geese and upland and would give that ever so slight "pause" before picking up the bird. From Dad or?


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Criquetpas said:


> Exactly, not slow on his destination, but would pause( I like that word) over the bird for just a moment. My Magic was also hunted on Ducks, Geese and upland and would give that ever so slight "pause" before picking up the bird. From Dad or?


I always thought of it as a slight hitch in his gitty-up ;-)


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Criquetpas said:


> Exactly, not slow on his destination, but would pause( I like that word) over the bird for just a moment. My Magic was also hunted on Ducks, Geese and upland and would give that ever so slight "pause" before picking up the bird. From Dad or?



I've seen quite a few dogs stop, look back at the handler, then reach down for the bird and pick it up. It always gives me the impression that the dog is saying - how do you like that you SOB? ;-)


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## allydeer (May 11, 2008)

I Am Working At A Papermill This Week And We Were Talking Labs And One Of The Guys Was Talking About A Harley Dog And It Was Wilderness Harley To Go He Said That A Guy At The Mill Owned Him So Tomorrow He Is Going To Takeme Over To The Other Side Of The Mill To Me Harleys Owner. He Was Say He Thought The Guy Had Frozen Semen Of Harley Yet . Be Kinda Neat To Talk To Him About A Legend Dog


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

What if you have a highly bred Harley female and did chose a Super Tanker male to breed to? Once removed if possible, if not close as possible?

Anyone with experinces as this?


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Scott Greenwood said:


> What if you have a highly bred Harley female and did chose a Super Tanker male to breed to? Once removed if possible, if not close as possible?


Scott, when you say "highly bred" Harley female, do you mean a closely linebred Harley female?
i.e. Harley top and bottom on her pedigree? 

How close is Harley in her pedigree?

It really depends, I think, on how closely linebred and where in the pedigree (which generation) this linebreeding occurred.

Helen


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Scott Greenwood said:


> What if you have a highly bred Harley female and did chose a Super Tanker male to breed to? Once removed if possible, if not close as possible?
> 
> Anyone with experinces as this?


Who know's what you are talking about??? 

Doesn't sound like you do either...;-)

Put up the pedigree and we'll see....

Angie


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## BirdNMouth (Sep 16, 2008)

Cat Squirrel said:


> I always thought of it as a slight hitch in his gitty-up ;-)


Ive seen some dogs do that and always thought maybe they were catching their breath before filling it full of duck for the return trip


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Angie B said:


> Who know's what you are talking about???
> 
> Doesn't sound like you do either...;-)
> 
> ...


Angie B,

Main reason why I don't post here anymore, comments like this. I am not owner of female so I do not have availability of pedigree. And yes I know what I'm talking about or I would not have asked the question. Go be the internet jockey on someone elses question.

Harley one generation back on mothers side. Four on fathers side.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Scott Greenwood said:


> Angie B,
> 
> Main reason why I don't post here anymore, comments like this. I am not owner of female so I do not have availability of pedigree. And yes I know what I'm talking about or I would not have asked the question. Go be the internet jockey on someone elses question.
> 
> Harley one generation back on mothers side. Four on fathers side.


Your post was gobbley ****... How can anyone help you with so little information? If you ask a "knee jerk" question you'll get a "knee jerk" response.

Still need more info then, "Harley one generation back on the mothers side. Four on the fathers side".

Your question hardly sounded serious. You mention one dog in the pedigree. Are there any others? Combinations are very important. 

If you want serious help get the pedigree. But then again it's not your dog.

Angie


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

More questions about FC/AFC Wilderness Harley To Go. 

How big was he ? 75 lbs.? 80 lbs.? or more? Was he a tall dog?

And was he known to throw size in his pups? 

How big was Cosmo? How big was Abe? 

Helen


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

helencalif said:


> More questions about FC/AFC Wilderness Harley To Go.
> 
> How big was he ? 75 lbs.? 80 lbs.? or more? Was he a tall dog?
> 
> ...


CALL MARY HOWLEY. She knows all the answers including about Cosmo. We were just discussing them yesterday. My recollection was average sized for all, Abe stockier, and a little shorter in the leg. I did 2 Abe breedings. I don't see much difference in 75# to 80# as there is a natural fluctuation. Mary Tatum would be another one to call as Boss was bigger.


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## raamw (Nov 12, 2003)

I have a harley great grandson & i can tell you be is a very handsome, stylish & tractable dog. I have frozen which i. Plan to use Some day. He is a calm dog at the line& all business. One in a million


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

My Chief goes back to Harley on both sides. No bad bite, no obvious conformation flaws, clear on all issues except elbows which were not looked at, and just a delightful dog. He marks well enough, he is tractable, but he is only 1 year old. We shall see what the world holds for him. He is also line bred on Zip Code which is what I was really after. I hope that the Harley influence gives me more calm than what I have already. I think its working.


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## tracyw (Aug 28, 2008)

Zucker has Harley on both sides too (3 and 4 gen back). No health issues at all. Good-looking 63 lb perfect size female that has the perfect amount of drive, super easy to train and an excellent marker. She didn't have any Lean Mac or Zip Code in her pedigree so I bred her to Grady...My pup and the pups from the litter are showing some real talent!

http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewPedigreeColor.asp?DogNo=87539 

I always thought that the standing over the bird was a training issue...I have seen dogs do it. Zucker has never done that.


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## raamw (Nov 12, 2003)

My Drake does not have any medical problems or a bad bite. He is the epitome of what a lab should be. At 11 yrs. old he can still hunt . Hi picture is under my name & it is a recent one too. He made my husbands job as a handler an easy one!!!!


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