# Labrador Size - what happened?



## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

I have a well bred black male that just returned from the trainer. The dog is smart and has great drive. He has all the qualities I want in a gun dog with one exception - he is small. At one year old he only weighs about 50 lbs. His FC-AFC father was 92 lbs. / mother was 60 lbs. 

He's never been a big eater and often has diarrhea (not sure if this is from all the activity and excitement - vet found nothing)

He's a great dog, I just can't figure out why he's some small. Any thoughts?


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

the dam contributes to 50% of the dog's genetics...Have you seen other dogs in the litter ?


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

pcarpenter said:


> I have a well bred black male that just returned from the trainer. The dog is smart and has great drive. He has all the qualities I want in a gun dog with one exception - he is small. At one year old he only weighs about 50 lbs. His FC-AFC father was 92 lbs. / mother was 60 lbs.
> 
> He's never been a big eater and often has diarrhea (not sure if this is from all the activity and excitement - vet found nothing)
> 
> He's a great dog, I just can't figure out why he's some small. Any thoughts?


Got wet as a baby and shrunk.


I have a male GR @ about 63lbs. Full brother litter mate a @ 89. The way of nature.

On the plus side, you have a perfect size duck boat dog.


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Breeder claims the other two males are each around 85 lbs.


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## Dale (Dec 21, 2003)

Why does it matter if he is 50 pounds or 90 pounds? I have a male 54 pounds, he handles big geese just fine. His brother on the other hand is 80 pounds.


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

We had an outstanding black lab who weighed 50 lbs. dripping wet with a full meal in his belly! One of the most exciting and talented dog we've owned. 

Good luck with your little guy!


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## CodyC (Jul 28, 2013)

People on here get real touchy about this topic so get ready because it's probably going to end in a war.

Nature is going to take it's course and some of the litter will be bigger than others, that's just the way it is. If you have small blood lines your going to get a small dog. These really big dogs didn't just happen by accident I can assure you of that. Selective breeding is the only way to get dogs to the extreme like that. On the other hand, if you have normal size parents and bloodlines, a percentage will be small, a percentage will be normal and a percentage will be larger. I don't consider an 80 lb dog a big lab. When I think of a big lab, I think of 100+ lbs. These are the dogs I am talking about that don't happen by accident.


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## pintailkilla (Apr 28, 2011)

My chocolate female weighed 49.5#s at 4 months on the vets scale ,at 6 months she now weighs 71#s . Her sire was 86.5#s , bitch was 51#s . My friend has her female litter mate she is now 46#s , you just never know what they will end up .


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## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

AKC standard is 65-80 lbs for dogs and 55-70 for bitches

I love them smaller 65-70ish
Ted was 74 but he was stout
I'm hoping Ben finishes around 65 lbs


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Generally, the smaller dogs have fewer orthopedic issues.


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

50 lbs at a year will be a bigger dog at 2.5- maybe not in the actual frame- but they aren't done at a year by an stretch. If its really an issue for you just dx him for a started dog that's bigger.


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## gdluck (May 27, 2005)

pcarpenter said:


> I have a well bred black male that just returned from the trainer. The dog is smart and has great drive. He has all the qualities I want in a gun dog with one exception - he is small. At one year old he only weighs about 50 lbs. His FC-AFC father was 92 lbs. / mother was 60 lbs.
> 
> He's never been a big eater and often has diarrhea (not sure if this is from all the activity and excitement - vet found nothing)
> 
> He's a great dog, I just can't figure out why he's some small. Any thoughts?


I'm guessing you think he should be much bigger and are over feeding which will cause loose stool. Feeding 4 cups or more a day?


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## gdluck (May 27, 2005)

pintailkilla said:


> My chocolate female weighed 49.5#s at 4 months on the vets scale ,at 6 months she now weighs 71#s . Her sire was 86.5#s , bitch was 51#s . My friend has her female litter mate she is now 46#s , you just never know what they will end up .


General rule double the weight at 4 months will be full grown weight. So your lookin at a 100 lb bitch. That's a really large dog


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## Brokengunz (Sep 3, 2011)

my litter of nine, ranged from 56 to 120, my keeper is 65 pounds, a ball of fire. most of them were 75- 85 2 over 100


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Dale said:


> Why does it matter if he is 50 pounds or 90 pounds? I have a male 54 pounds, he handles big geese just fine. His brother on the other hand is 80 pounds.


It matters because" My lab weighs 115 lbs and there is not an ounce of fat on him" Really, how many times have I heard that. Somehow size gets eguated with the ability of the dog or the hunting prowess of the owner. Anyone ever hear of the other old saying " It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" ? To the OP, your dog is the size he is it is no reflection on either of you, it makes no difference.


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## Don Lietzau (Jan 8, 2011)

He's a lab. Feed him more and he will get bigger.
As for size, my female DD is 51 pounds and on the water or in the field you better hang on.
Don


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## Bill Cummins Jr. (Aug 2, 2011)

1tulip said:


> Generally, the smaller dogs have fewer orthopedic issues.


 Live longer sometime too! I have a 52 lb. female that will be 15 next month.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Golddogs said:


> Got wet as a baby and shrunk.
> 
> 
> I have a male GR @ about 63lbs. Full brother litter mate a @ 89. The way of nature.
> ...


Got my vote big time.
To the OP....probably the runt in the litter...and I heard that they are great dogs in the long run. Size IMO doesn't matter to a dog, but to us I guess it does. We look at it as a phallic symbol at best. At least see if he is up to your standards in training and in the field.  JMHO


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

My brother and I have the same mother and father; I'm a touch under 6'3" and around 240, he is about 5'10" and probably about 160 ish. My dad was about 6'0" and my mom was 5'7" in her prime, so go figure.

All else the same, the smaller dog will probably hold up better over the years, less gravity effect.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

I am very skeptical that you can have a lab that is much over 100 pounds "without an ounce of fat on them". There is a bell shaped curve for height under which most labs are going to fit. Unless you have a dog that is two or more standard deviations above the mean, I don't believe they can be that heavily muscled because we don't give dogs anabolic steroids. 

I know that we'll probably hear from some owners that have those huge, heavily muscled labs... I'm just saying they are statistically anomalous. My experience is that when someone (usually a pet owner) tells me they have a "big lab" who's 90-100 pounds it turns out to be a dog that's pretty average in height but carrying way too much weight.


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## FieldLab (Aug 5, 2011)

My lab is 92 lbs has a great amount of prey drive and loves
To hunt upland but he wont last more then a cpl hrs and has a hard time 
Getting through the briars and bramble chasing phesant, and brings a ton 
Of water in the duck boat, next one 65-70 max


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## PHRGold (Sep 23, 2013)

The trainer may have sent you the wrong dog.


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

My first lab was/is about 75lbs max. My newest lab is about 55lbs maybe 60lbs after pigging out and all wet. I hunt out of a small boat and my "big" guy is about the max I'd want.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

1tulip said:


> I am very skeptical that you can have a lab that is much over 100 pounds "without an ounce of fat on them". There is a bell shaped curve for height under which most labs are going to fit. Unless you have a dog that is two or more standard deviations above the mean, I don't believe they can be that heavily muscled because we don't give dogs anabolic steroids.
> 
> I know that we'll probably hear from some owners that have those huge, heavily muscled labs... I'm just saying they are statistically anomalous. My experience is that when someone (usually a pet owner) tells me they have a "big lab" who's 90-100 pounds it turns out to be a dog that's pretty average in height but carrying way too much weight.


I have seen several over the 100lb mark that were in great shape and not "fat". They are few and far between. Their frame resembles that of a horse. I owned one a long time ago that in shape went around 105-110. He was probably 6" to 10" taller at the shoulders than 99% of the other labs he was around. Live until he was 13 and never had any joint issues. My dad was a vet and I worked for him for many years and only ever saw one lab bigger framed than he was. His dad was around 80lb and the one time the two were together the dad @ 12 years old kicked his butt.

I have also seen a lot more that are over the 100lb mark that are over served at the table and should probably be in the 80lb range.


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

I've only seen a few legit 90-95 Lbers. Mostly just 80-85 masquerading as huge dogs. That said- 75 is as big as I would want- and 80 had better be about the best dog I've ever seen if he wants to stay here. My 65lb bitch is enough dog for anything that comes up- and is about as big as you can fly out with reasonably. As big as you can use in a small boat and a little more than I want In a canoe usually though we've hunted alot out of one. Ive never seen a 100 lb lab that I didn't think would be a pretty sharp looking dog at 85.... Unless it would've looked better at 70 or so. 

I've never understood the fixation with bulk- I like my dog jacked. Way more impressive to behold. Way healthier. We go into waterfow 5-6 pounds heavier than this or about 8% of her weight- but I like the little bit of fat for a good efficient long burning fuel source for all day waterwork- and the impact torque Etc is mitigated by the fact that its almost entirely waterwork and 2 weeks in she's about 3 lbs heavier than this.


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

PHRGold said:


> The trainer may have sent you the wrong dog.


That thought is in the back of my mind. My only concern about him being small is how he will fair in cold conditions (he is skinny and won't gain weight - always moving). Other than that he's a ball of fire - smart, fast, hard charger with an off switch. Hard to complain. Thanks for the responses.


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## jackh (Oct 14, 2010)

I wouldn't be concerned about his size, sounds like nature. Like others said, I would personally rather have a slightly smaller dog than one pushing 90 lbs but to each his own. My last girl hovered around 52 lbs before she passed unexpectedly and that was really the perfect size for our lifestyle. Only thing bad about her size was that people that didn't know her would ask if she was still growing or the runt which was annoying. Most people are used to the huge fluffy house pet goldens.


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## jackh (Oct 14, 2010)

pcarpenter said:


> That thought is in the back of my mind. My only concern about him being small is how he will fair in cold conditions (he is skinny and won't gain weight - always moving). Other than that he's a ball of fire - smart, fast, hard charger with an off switch. Hard to complain. Thanks for the responses.


What's the story behind that? Did you buy him as a puppy or started dog, how long has he been at the pro etc?


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

pcarpenter said:


> That thought is in the back of my mind. My only concern about him being small is how he will fair in cold conditions (he is skinny and won't gain weight - always moving). Other than that he's a ball of fire - smart, fast, hard charger with an off switch. Hard to complain. Thanks for the responses.



Is he microchipped? Does he know his name? Do you like him as much as the dog you sent to the trainer? Hahaha

I don't think I've ever seen a 12 month old lab that wasn't pretty "rangy" it's like an 11 year old kid, they just aren't huge unless you make them fat. Check back in in 12 months and you'll have a way more solid animal.


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

pcarpenter said:


> That thought is in the back of my mind. My only concern about him being small is how he will fair in cold conditions (he is skinny and won't gain weight - always moving). Other than that he's a ball of fire - smart, fast, hard charger with an off switch. Hard to complain. Thanks for the responses.


Cold conditions dry, NP. Wet, get a proper fitting vest.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I have three males dogs. One Chessie and two labs. They are 9, 6 and 3 years old. ALL of them weigh within 1# of 70#, either over or under, depending on when they were fed when weighed! So maybe its the way I raise them? The kind and amount of food? I never specifically looked for a particular size of dog, just eliminated any from my choices that were extreme either way.


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Small dog - big heart


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

I'd surely suspect you were sent back the wrong dog if you did not have him micro-chipped. genetics are too far off in this case... if it is the same dog it is very rare to have this variation.... 

Another thing is some breeders have accidents happen, and the Sire or Mom may not be who they told you they were...


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## Oz1 (Dec 9, 2011)

Here's my boy getting his JH. 100lbs even.


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## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

.44 magnum said:


> *I'd surely suspect you were sent back the wrong dog* if you did not have him micro-chipped. genetics are too far off in this case... if it is the same dog it is very rare to have this variation....
> 
> Another thing is some breeders have accidents happen, and the Sire or Mom may not be who they told you they were...


I dont think you or anyone else here has even close to enough evidence to make such strong accusations. You've topped yourself AGAIN.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Mixing up dogs. I had to pick my dog up at a trainer's kennel... he was out training and I had to get the dog and hit the road. He told me which run she was in, but the dog that was in it didn't look right. Or, I thought I'd forgotten or not heard him correctly or gotten mixed up (was it two runs from the left? Or the right?) I musta stood there 20 minutes looking at the two dogs (who of course were jumping around and couldn't hold still). I finally figured it out by her bark and once I had her on a leash... she looked about right. So I took her. (Yes, it was my dog.)

Long, long, long ago, I was at a field trial in W. NY and saw Felix Mock ALMOST go to the line in the Derby with a dog that was a FC/AFC. (He had a kennel helper ferrying dogs to and fro because, as I recall, parking was some distance from the line.) But he sure enough sat in the holding blind with this dog for a while before he noticed the error.

I've been throwing birds in the field for a truck load of dogs and even though I've been around that crew for a long time, I can't tell which black dog has just run past my blind.

Sometimes black dogs actually do all look alike. However, to the OP's post, that would be a rather phenomenal mix-up.


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

shawninthesticks said:


> I dont think you or anyone else here has even close to enough evidence to make such strong accusations. You've topped yourself AGAIN.


Right.... wrong.... breeder says the other two males are 85 lbs from that litter.... 35 lbs different? pretty fishy ...indeed.


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## Patti Benton (Jan 6, 2003)

Sire was 80, dam is 55 - Male from first litter are about 60 and females are about 50. They are 21 months. I like them little. Easier on the joints.


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## LGH (Oct 20, 2013)

I have 2 females, one right at 50# and one about 80#. Hopefully my next one will be 60-65#. To me that's the perfect size


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

I had one litter where the opposite occurred. Sire 70# and Dam 80# All puppies were fairly uniform in size. The male I kept grew to gargantuan proportions. When I sold him at about 1 and 1/2 years he was 120# and extremely tall. Not an ounce of fat on him. When he would come back in from a mark, the trainer likened the sound to a horse galloping. We were told when we bought the grand dam of the pups that her sire was large. I guess those genes were just waiting to surface, but we never imagined a lab could be that big. The trainer recommended selling him as he was just too large. As with people, genes can lie dormant for several generations and then just suddenly resurface. And for those thinking it, there was no possibility of a mismating.


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## 150class (Jul 1, 2003)

pcarpenter said:


> I have a well bred black male that just returned from the trainer. The dog is smart and has great drive. He has all the qualities I want in a gun dog with one exception - he is small. At one year old he only weighs about 50 lbs. His FC-AFC father was 92 lbs. / mother was 60 lbs.
> 
> He's never been a big eater and often has diarrhea (not sure if this is from all the activity and excitement - vet found nothing)
> 
> He's a great dog, I just can't figure out why he's some small. Any thoughts?


My Goldens littermates are all under 70 lbs
My male is 115

careful what you wish for


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## pauline_eisenman (Aug 11, 2014)

I agree with you that *Labrador* is truly an intelligent and adorable breed of dog. Anyway, I suggest that bring your dog to a veterinarian to check the status of your dog.


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## Ghadarits (Jan 21, 2013)

I can't speak to a possible mix up of whatever sort but will say this.

If the dog is doing what you are asking of it and you like the dog at this point I would keep it and go on from there unless there's a way you can definitively prove you have the wrong dog.

My yellow female was 38lbs at 8 months and is now 65lbs at 1 year and 9 months.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

This 93lb Lab came from 2 normal sized dogs, siblings were normal sized. He went on to sire several 45-50lb dogs almost all of them were on the lower end of the size scale. A friend just bred one of his daughters, she produced normal size pups and 2 large pups who @ 8mts of age you can tell will be 90lb dogs like their grand-sire (they look just like him). One never knows about size, it bonces all over the place and can skip generations. Still if the pup is having diarrhea and is under weight for his frame size a vet-check, wouldn't hurt.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

.44 magnum said:


> I'd surely suspect you were sent back the wrong dog if you did not have him micro-chipped. genetics are too far off in this case... if it is the same dog it is very rare to have this variation....
> 
> Another thing is some breeders have accidents happen, and the Sire or Mom may not be who they told you they were...


I don't know about that Magnum. I kept a pup out of a breeding of my stud and a nice bitch. My stud dog weighs 74# the bitch was large for her sex at just under 70#s. Most of the pups in the litter grew to be like their parents, all except my male which barely reached 50# at three years old. Same genetics, just a smaller dog, it happens.

John


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