# 2013 National Amateur Retriever Championship Coverage



## Tina Styan

This year’s National Amateur will be held in Mondovi, Wisconsin from June 16 - June 22. The National Amateur Retriever Club and Retriever News are pleased to bring this blog to you each day. Some reporting will take place before the event begins as we will arrive a few days early a to attend meetings, etc. The Retriever News will again provide up to the minute coverage through www.TheRetrieverNews.com Here is the link to the blog: http://2013narcblog.theretrievernews.com/ 

This year’s Team will consist of Tina Styan, Tera Lanczak and Gwen Jones. We encourage the followers of the blog, both at the event and online around the country to participate by adding their own comments to the posts and sending us materials or suggestions of what they would like to see. Photos and suggestions can be sent directly to [email protected]

A couple of additional comments…the rolling terrain of the test sites may impact the speed at which we post the blog online. We have set some plans in motion to alleviate that as much as possible, but we would ask that you bear with us, knowing these logistics are sometimes out of out control. We expect more followers than ever to be on location and the internet usage of smart phones and tablets also affects our upload speed. This year, 2013 NARC Gear will only be available online, so if you want to check out the NARC store, it is at www.RetrieverOutfitter.com

Here is a link to the test sites so you can get an impression of the lay of the land: http://www.theretrievernews.com/RNews/Documents/TEST-SITES_2013.pdf

Please know that your volunteer reporters work to bring you bird-by-bird reports. We have specific directives to report only the trial logistics, the weather and the very general issues involving performance where it is non-judgmental. In no instance will the reporters be critical of any dog or handler performance. We support the judges as only they hold "the book" as they assess the cumulative work of each dog -- so please do not expect to hear gallery talk or specific analysis relating to performance.

Thank you and enjoy the coverage of the 2013 National Amateur Retriever Championship.


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## pam ingham

Great pics - looks like a beautiful place - loved the lineup of trucks- pretty intimidating to think that's just a pre-national training group!! Thanks for the reports and thanks to Lainee as always for her summary!


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## FOM

Dog 32 will start the 1st Series! Good luck to all competitors! 

FYI I know of two scratches : 66 & 110 (update your pick ems!)


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## EdA

Add 41 to scratches, double and blind at Unbehan/Curtis property


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## BonMallari

*Congratulations to Arnie Erwin on being selected as the 2014 NARC President*

Next year's National Amateur will be held in Roseburg Oregon, a beautiful venue

the judges will be Steve O'Connell (Eastern Time Zone ) Dennis Bath (Central ) and John Pampy (Mountain)..*Congratulations gentlemen on your assignment*

looks like there will be a change in The RAC (Retriever Advisory Committee) with the retirements of Nelson Sills, Robert Kennon Jr, and Bill Daley...*Thank you gentlemen for all that you have given to the retriever game for the last couple of decades*

the criteria for how RAC members are selected are as follows

1. They should be a 40+ point judge
2. They should have 20+ years of Field Trial Experience
3. They must have titled a dog
4. They must currently be an active handler

They will also initiate term limits of eight years..


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## T.Lanczak

Caravanning to the test site of the 1st & 2nd series. Early Morning


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B

good coverage so far !! Nice job!!


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## BonMallari

#38 Jerry Lee, and # 39 Nike both handled 

is #40 Ali's quick whistle to the bird considered a handle?


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## T.Lanczak

There is a SHORT RETIRED NOT long & both dogs handled


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## T.Lanczak

Thank you for the compliment. We r trying hard to be expeditious & accurate PLEASE POST COMMENTS ON THE BLOG So we can fix mistakes &answer questions quicker!!!


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## T.Lanczak

GET WELL SOON SUZIE!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zi42ycColBA/Ub3XB5sowLI/AAAAAAAAMzk/fzsnd4K8qqI/s1600/IMG_9703.jpg


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## hotel4dogs

whooooo wheeeeee lookit all them black dogs!


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## 2tall

How many dogs does Mark Medford have in this? Is there a record number of dogs entered by one owner/handler?


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## EdA

2tall said:


> How many dogs does Mark Medford have in this? Is there a record number of dogs entered by one owner/handler?


He has 6 and yes it is probably a record, no AT&T cell service anywhere near the grounds, Verizon people have good service, a very nice opening test which they should finish today with 121 dogs.


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## Pals

Tera- 'Buggins' for those awful black gnats. Best stuff we can find by far. Keeps them off your head and face.


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## Denver

We used a spray that smelled like lemon pledge for pre national setup week, and it worked really good. My buddy bought it in S. Georgia over the winter.


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## Chris Atkinson

EdA said:


> He has 6 and yes it is probably a record, no AT&T cell service anywhere near the grounds, Verizon people have good service, a very nice opening test which they should finish today with 121 dogs.


That's impressive that they'll finish today. Has anyone timed it?

Do you have any idea the average time per dog?

Thanks, Chris


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## Chris Atkinson

Has anyone figured out how to get the Blog to go back more than just the last 5 posts or so?

Congrats to local boy Ozzie with Bill Booker, who, according to the blog just ran a nice first series!


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## Andy Carlson

On the left, below Archives is a word Older< - click on that and it takes you back


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## Chris Atkinson

Andy Carlson said:


> On the left, below Archives is a word Older< - click on that and it takes you back


OK got it.

I tried hard this AM to find yesterday's stuff with the interview from Ted Shih and Mitch Patterson and could not find them.

Thanks, Chris


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## pam ingham

the blog is great but it doesn't appear to be in 'real time' - can someone fill us in on why the delay?? I understand technical difficulties but with all the internet savvy folk out there -how can it become more real time as it has in the past??


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## EdA

pam ingham said:


> the blog is great but it doesn't appear to be in 'real time' - can someone fill us in on why the delay?? I understand technical difficulties but with all the internet savvy folk out there -how can it become more real time as it has in the past??


There is little to no Internet/cell service and slow when there is a signal and I am not tech savvy just on site with no AT&T cellphone service


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## JKOttman

Chris Atkinson said:


> That's impressive that they'll finish today. Has anyone timed it?
> 
> Do you have any idea the average time per dog?
> 
> Thanks, Chris


Test took about 4 minutes per dog. Terrific time management. They also gave you limited time to view the test before they called for the birds. A little nerve wracking but ultimately enough time.​


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## Howard N

Hard to believe that close to 20% of the best retrievers in the country handled (or switched) on a little ol' double


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## kjrice

pam ingham said:


> the blog is great but it doesn't appear to be in 'real time' - can someone fill us in on why the delay?? I understand technical difficulties but with all the internet savvy folk out there -how can it become more real time as it has in the past??


Maybe in the future they can setup a cell phone repeater since they run on peoples' properties.


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## huntinman

Howard N said:


> Hard to believe that close to 20% of the best retrievers in the country handled (or switched) on a little ol' double


Just a double;-). Most of those that handled were in the first 50 or so dogs. Seems that after the sun came up and around (according to reports) that short retired became more doable. But it sure was giving the early dogs the business. 

One dog handled on both birds. 

Quite a few had big hunts.

Sounds like the end of the blind was no walk in the park either.


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## Golddogs

Pals said:


> Tera- 'Buggins' for those awful black gnats. Best stuff we can find by far. Keeps them off your head and face.


Absorbine Jr is better.


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## pupaloo

Find something with NEEM (herbal) in it-works amazingly well, and you can put it on the dogs, too.


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## Tim West

I think this may be the first time that the double with a blind first has been done in a National. Usually this test is done in big weekend trials. I guess it works for big Nationals too.


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## Dan Wegner

The BLOG isn't up to date, I'm guessing they're having technical difficulties. However, the callbacks list shows a number of pick-ups in a row after about 25 dogs had run. Wondering if the wind changed or the judges decided they weren't going to accept something like a dog that broke down in the area of flyer and had to be handled back to the long retired or something else. Anybody have any idea what is happening?


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## 8mmag

Dan Wegner said:


> The BLOG isn't up to date, I'm guessing they're having technical difficulties. However, the callbacks list shows a number of pick-ups in a row after about 25 dogs had run. Wondering if *the wind changed* or the judges decided they weren't going to accept something like a dog that broke down in the area of flyer and had to be handled back to the long retired or something else. Anybody have any idea what is happening?


The wind changed


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## Tom D

Wind picked up and long bird in now in the shadows


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## huntinman

Tim West said:


> I think this may be the first time that the double with a blind first has been done in a National. Usually this test is done in big weekend trials. I guess it works for big Nationals too.


 Tim, I think every Nat'l Am I have ever been to has started with a double and a blind. Generally a long flyer go bird and shorter retired... Blind is second series but run at same time. It pretty much a standard National Am first series.


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## jeff t.

huntinman said:


> Tim, I think every Nat'l Am I have ever been to has started with a double and a blind. Generally a long flyer go bird and shorter retired... Blind is second series but run at same time. It pretty much a standard National Am first series.


I believe his point was focused on running the blind first before picking up the marks.


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## Doug Main

huntinman said:


> Tim, I think every Nat'l Am I have ever been to has started with a double and a blind. Generally a long flyer go bird and shorter retired... Blind is second series but run at same time. It pretty much a standard National Am first series.


Tim is talking about interrupted marks, here where a double is thrown, but a blind is run 1st. I think he is correct. They have done singles with a blind before, but not a double that I am aware.


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## BonMallari

Well its been done now, along with series 3&4, dont know if that particular sequence has ever happened in the first four series of the National....either way I expect to see some similar type tests coming to your local field trial this summer and fall


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## Mike W.

The test is a monster. Very well placed long bird. You could easily run this double by itself and get tons of answers. This test has chewed up some very good dogs and spit them out.


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## jeff t.

Doug Main said:


> They have done singles with a blind before, but not a double that I am aware.


I'm told the first series of the 1987 National Amateur in Steamboat Springs, CO was an interrupted land double.


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## Denver

When they set this up last week, there were people saying that this was the first time interrupted marks would be run at a national. Not saying it's correct, but that's what the talk was.


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## huntinman

Grady DQ'd!! Sent for marks instead of blind. Wow...


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## bakbay

jeff t. said:


> I'm told the first series of the 1987 National Amateur in Steamboat Springs, CO was an interrupted land double.


Just looked it up...the 87 National Am started with a 200 yard shot flyer. Handler pulled dog off flyer to pick up a 175 yard blind and flyer station retired as the dog returned with the blind. Not a double...


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## Dan Storts

Survival is primary importance in this test, with 2 poison birds, and going back to the flier is secondary. Marking????


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## Breck

so what happened to Josie? Blog makes no mention of her run but in Duncan's pic you can see her on line.
???


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## saltgrass

Congrats to all that made it... And congrats to all still playing. Good luck Jim Powers and Alex Washburn...


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## Sharon Potter

I spent part of the day watching...definitely a challenging test. While it was hard to see much from the gallery, reading the handlers at the line told the story fairly well. The long retired was tough, and the dogs that did it received well-deserved applause. 

Fun to get to meet so many RTFers, too...my little Ginny got the hair petted right off of her. She sat in "her" chair while I stood and watched, and was a little angel. Dr. Ed only made a half-hearted attempt to steal her...too many witnesses.


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## Darin Westphal

in the blog from today, if you look at the pix of FC-AFC Sureshot’s Texas Hold’em (Dealer), LM, Marv Baumer......look in the background at who I assume is Al Wilson (one of the judges)...if it is....is he using a cheesehead cowboy hat to signal the guns? If he is.....that's really getting into the local culture!! Instant Classic!


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## Sharon Potter

Yes, that is a cheesehead cowboy hat...I thought that was fun!


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## wetdog

Anyone know how Kimber #51 did? The blog is blank about this dog. Thanks


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## Loran Marmes (JR)

i have a question, if a dog is handled on anything besides a blind are they dqd or out ? New to this all and trying to keep up with results and really not sure of everything lol


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## Beverly Burns

Generally you are allowed one "boo-boo" providing it's not huge. Now if you get to the 10th series, need to handle and already have a previous handle, you'll most likely be a finisher.


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## 2tall

As opposed to a finalist.


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## zipmarc

wetdog said:


> Anyone know how Kimber #51 did? The blog is blank about this dog. Thanks


I sent a comment about this at the blog. Hopefully they will update with info


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## FOM

Callbacks to the 5th: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, *9*, 10, 12, 13, 15, *17*, 18, *19*, 20, 22, 23, *24*, 25, 26, *27*, 28, 29, 30, *31*, 32, *33*, *34*, *35*, 36, 37, *38*, *40*, 42, 43, 45, *46*, 47, 49, 50, 51, 52, 57, *58*, *59*, 60, 61, *64*, 68, *70*, *71*, 72, 73, *74*, 75, 76, 77, *79*, 81, 82, 84, 85, 86, 87, 89, 90, 92, 98, *99*, 100, 102, 104, 106, 107, 108, 111, 112, *113*, 115, *116*, *117*, 119, 120, 121, 122 (85 Total) - Dog 98 starts

Dogs dropped: 5, 11, 14, 21, 53, 54, 55, 56, 62, 63, 78, 80, 83, 88, 91, 93, 95, 96, 97, 101, 103, 105, 109, 114, 118, 123, 124 (27 total)

Of the remaining 85 dogs, 24 have handles in prior series (bold dog numbers above)


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## HarryWilliams

Ken Bora's poll asked who owns the line. Don't know about that but I'd say the judges are sitting in the driver's seat at the NARC. HPW


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## Mike W.

Most people know this, but just because a dog does not show a handle, that does not mean they are clean. There are more than a handful that have had very bad birds.


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## FOM

junfan68 said:


> Most people know this, but just because a dog does not show a handle, that does not mean they are clean. There are more than a handful that have had very bad birds.


Yup...yup, we aren't there to see EVERY dog so...everything reported on the blog and rtf needs to be taken with a grain of salt...


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## huntinman

junfan68 said:


> Most people know this, but just because a dog does not show a handle, that does not mean they are clean. There are more than a handful that have had very bad birds.


And conversely, some with a handle... Might have a quick, clean handle... Who knows, one of these days that might be considered a good thing as compared to a long hunt, covering lots of ground...


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## jollydog

A quick clean handle was explained to me, by a very seasoned and knowledgeable Field Trialer, to USUALLY mean the dog has no clue to where the bird is as to why the quick handle. That being said I would prefer a hunt in the area where the dog has showed a mark over a dog that is quickly handled to it because USUALLY the handler knows he has no clue and is handling before it gets ugly. That is just me as long as they are covering ground in the area.


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## huntinman

jollydog said:


> A quick clean handle was explained to me, by a very seasoned and knowledgeable Field Trialer, to USUALLY mean the dog has no clue to where the bird is as to why the quick handle. That being said I would prefer a hunt in the area where the dog has showed a mark over a dog that is quickly handled to it because USUALLY the handler knows he has no clue and is handling before it gets ugly. That is just me as long as they are covering ground in the area.


Maybe. But there are always exceptions. When running the NationalAm at Klamath Falls in 2002 (I think). One of the birds on a short mark was thrown down and almost in towards the dog in a way that it landed at the edge of the water on a stock pond. The bank was about six feet straight up with a large field behind it. 

Dog after dog swam over there and missed that little mark, drove up that bank and set up monster hunts out in that field. Some had to be handled in. Some disappeared, some picked up. This was the 4th or 5th series. When my dog swam out there and missed that bird on the upwind side by two feet and started driving up that bank, what was to make me think she was any different than the 40 or so dogs who had previously run all over that field? I hit the whistle before she got to the top of the bank. When she sat, she looked down and could see the bird... Toot, toot. Sure I now had a handle, but it was only one ding instead of two (monster hunt, plus a handle).


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## DoubleHaul

huntinman said:


> Sure I now had a handle, but it was only one ding instead of two (monster hunt, plus a handle).


A quick handle is always better than a monster hunt and a handle.


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## jollydog

Totally agree with you Bill... I am basically trying to say that often 
a dog with a quick handle that you can tell does not 
have a clue where the bird is will be called back
over a dog in the area that showed a mark and then had
to be handled. This usually occurs on a very 
difficult mark- and I am not talking monster hunt. I am not being negative against
quick handles just saying most of the time they are used
when dog does not have a mark on the bird. Feel the dog who does
can get passed by.


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## blake_mhoona

what does this phrase mean:

Dog was seen walking off line and was marked as pick up before attempting the right retired retrieve


i cant decide if that means the dog did something that resulted in the judges saying it was a pickup or if the handler decided to pick up?


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## FOM

blake_mhoona said:


> what does this phrase mean:
> 
> Dog was seen walking off line and was marked as pick up before attempting the right retired retrieve
> 
> 
> i cant decide if that means the dog did something that resulted in the judges saying it was a pickup or if the handler decided to pick up?


It can mean either or...since we aren't on the line listening and observing, you just have to live with the fact that the dog is out...


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## Beverly Burns

I don't think that I have ever seen so many "pick-ups" in a National Am before. These are the best dogs in the country.


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## 8mmag

JTS said:


> 6 out of the first 13 are p/u in the 5th!! And one double handle....ouch!


These tests are tough! The dogs are providing lots of answers and the judges aren't needing to do any pencilwhipping to make the field size manageable. The question I have is if the last five series are as tough as the first five have been, is how many dogs will be able to complete 10 series as tough as the first five have been...there might only be 5 finalists at this rate.


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## Jay Dufour

So Are 107 and 108 are out ? Two in a row with same description,seems a mistake.


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## huntinman

blake_mhoona said:


> what does this phrase mean:
> 
> Dog was seen walking off line and was marked as pick up before attempting the right retired retrieve
> 
> 
> i cant decide if that means the dog did something that resulted in the judges saying it was a pickup or if the handler decided to pick up?


Having been there and most handlers live by the rule of never give up... Let the judges tell you when you're done... Take it from there.


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## huntinman

Jay Dufour said:


> So Are 107 and 108 are out ? Two in a row with same description,seems a mistake.


Jay, the only thing that was the same was the tap on the shoulder.


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## Jay Dufour

Gotcha ....ooouuch


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## huntinman

jollydog said:


> Totally agree with you Bill... I am basically trying to say that often
> a dog with a quick handle that you can tell does not
> have a clue where the bird is will be called back
> over a dog in the area that showed a mark and then had
> to be handled. This usually occurs on a very
> difficult mark- and I am not talking monster hunt. I am not being negative against
> quick handles just saying most of the time they are used
> when dog does not have a mark on the bird. Feel the dog who does
> can get passed by.


Yes, I agree. If he is heading away from the bird with no clue and is showing no mark at all, that handle should be penalized more than one that actually was in the area for sure.


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## huntinman

--DISCLAIMER-- Instructions to the Handler

Judges have instructed the handlers that if their dog hunts for 2 and a half minutes on any of the marks, they must begin to handle to the bird to complete that mark. If the dog has a previous handle on the books, they are not being invited to attempt the next mark.
posted by Retriever News Team @ 2:21 PM 0 comments


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## john fallon

In all fairness, can the judges do anything but keep on setting up difficult tests.

john


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## truka

From the blog "--DISCLAIMER-- Instructions to the Handler

Judges have instructed the handlers that if their dog hunts for 2 and a half minutes on any of the marks, they must begin to handle to the bird to complete that mark. If the dog has a previous handle on the books, they are not being invited to attempt the next mark."

Explains the handlers leaving without attempting the right retired. 
-trudie


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## truka

are we all glued to the computer screens or what? LOL
trudie


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## AmiableLabs

I am in the gallery at the National. Just one note. I will never again criticize the Retriever News ladies for their reporting. I had no idea how hard they work. Four of them nonstop. I am forever grateful.


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## huntinman

truka said:


> are we all glued to the computer screens or what? LOL
> trudie


Yep and a cell phone stuck in my ear!


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## huntinman

AmiableLabs said:


> I am in the gallery at the National. Just one note. I will never again criticize the Retriever News ladies for their reporting. I had no idea how hard they work. Four of them nonstop. I am forever grateful.


Hey Kevin, how are the noseeums?


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## Darin Westphal

If you look at the blog and the test diagram (not the still photo)...this test looks like it was originally set to be a quad! I can only imagine what this would've been like had they thrown another mark in this test!! YIKES!


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## huntinman

They may have too many dogs to scrap it. But... I have seen it done in later series at a National.

This is not happening... The blog is quite a few dogs behind. It shows dog 113, but in real time dog 6 just picked up,the birds... Wish I was up on that hill watching, or better yet, running one.


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## Mark Chase

85 dogs to start with a 38% completion rate without a handle so far! if that rate continues that would leave 32 dogs going to the 6th series. Assuming a set of tough water marks for the 6th


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## BonMallari

huntinman said:


> --DISCLAIMER-- Instructions to the Handler
> 
> Judges have instructed the handlers that if their dog hunts for 2 and a half minutes on any of the marks, they must begin to handle to the bird to complete that mark. If the dog has a previous handle on the books, they are not being invited to attempt the next mark.
> posted by Retriever News Team @ 2:21 PM 0 comments


is ROLEX now the official timekeeper of the National Amateur


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## Howard N

huntinman said:


> They may have too many dogs to scrap it. But... I have seen it done in later series at a National.
> 
> Might not be a bad idea before they get in too deep.


Wonder if you're not right Bill. They've had lots of pickups and handles. I expect the work will get better as the later handlers go to school on what the current handlers are doing and learn what is successful or not. I wonder if the judges are prepared to loose 50% or more of the remaining dogs? From the pix and sketch it looks like a doable, not over the top, test. But I'm not there seeing the conditions the dog actually faces in that test.


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## AmiableLabs

I can't see scrapping it. It is a fair test, just difficult.

Window to left bird is tiny. Many dogs are getting sucked up the hill and failing to recover. Push dog right and he falls down into a bowl behind center guns. Big hunts weakens a dogs resolve on long retired.

Everyone is wanting to pick up the birds and move on, but waiting for a star to stomp the test.


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## huntinman

AmiableLabs said:


> I can't see scrapping it. It is a fair test, just difficult.
> 
> Window to left bird is tiny. Many dogs are getting sucked up the hill and failing to recover. Push dog right and he falls down into a bowl behind center guns. Big hunts weakens a dogs resolve on long retired.
> 
> Everyone is wanting to pick up the birds and move on, *but waiting for a star to stomp the test*.


With that many good and great dogs there, some will.


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## Granddaddy

NARC was just about this size last year & the judges moved things along pretty well without making the tests so difficult that a large percentage of the field was picked up.The grounds at Blackhawk are tough, both land & water. It would not be too difficult to setup a test where a lot of dogs eliminate themselves - even dogs at this level. I'm not sure that is preferable to judges having to judge and drop dogs for poor work. Judges having to eliminate dogs for poor work usually sets in starting in the 5th series - at least in my experiences there. If 40-50% of the starting field is eliminated by the 5th & a number of other dogs are bleeding, the judges are in control.


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## Cowtown

Granddaddy said:


> NARC was just about this size last year & the judges moved things along pretty well without making the tests so difficult that a large percentage of the field was picked up.The grounds at Blackhawk are tough, both land & water. It would not be too difficult to setup a test where a lot of dogs eliminate themselves - even dogs at this level. I'm not sure that is preferable to judges having to judge and drop dogs for poor work. Judges having to eliminate dogs for poor work usually sets in starting in the 5th series - at least in my experiences there. If 40-50% of the starting field is eliminated by the 5th & a number of other dogs are bleeding, the judges are in control.


I think I'd rather dogs eliminate themselves. Judges eliminating dogs is subjective.


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## Granddaddy

Cowtown said:


> I think I'd rather dogs eliminate themselves. Judges eliminating dogs is subjective.


then its not judging........and judges of that view tend to setup tests that are so difficult that luck is a major factor to finish the test rather than marking ability.


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## FOM

They will not go past dog 45 today...currently on dog #18-ish


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## junbe

The fifth series was originally a quad. The long retired gun was not run. Thèy will do at least three test and possibly four test on the Spangler property. The ninth will be on Lucy Two and the tenth will be a water quad on Lucy One.


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## Cowtown

Granddaddy said:


> then its not judging........and judges of that view tend to setup tests that are so difficult that luck is a major factor to finish the test rather than marking ability.


Not sure I understand. On the converse, set up a JH test and that proves nothing but hey the judges get to judge. This is the National...the best of the best dogs. I'd rather see hard tests. I don't want to see every dog pass every test with no handles and the judges having to decide. I want hard tests to test these great dogs and for the tests to separate the pack.


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## Doug Main

Granddaddy said:


> NARC was just about this size last year & the judges moved things along pretty well without making the tests so difficult that a large percentage of the field was picked up.The grounds at Blackhawk are tough, both land & water. It would not be too difficult to setup a test where a lot of dogs eliminate themselves - even dogs at this level. *I'm not sure that is preferable to judges having to judge and drop dogs for poor work.* Judges having to eliminate dogs for poor work usually sets in starting in the 5th series - at least in my experiences there. If 40-50% of the starting field is eliminated by the 5th & a number of other dogs are bleeding, the judges are in control.


Having been penciled out on the 3rd series "water blind" of the Nat'l Am in a previous year, I can assure you, I would much rather have failed a tough test like this.


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## AmiableLabs

As I said, this is a fair test but very difficult.

Dogs are eliminating themselves.


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## EdA

The left flier is flighted from near the top of a hill and falls downhill 60-75 yards from the guns. The rooster is in the air for so long most dogs quit watching anticipating the short (210yards) hen flier in the middle. Several dogs have gone outside the fall of the left flier and kept going seemingly not noting or identifying the one thrower and 3 shooters at the top of the hill to their left as being associated with a mark. I ran fifth, thank goodness, when it was cloudy and cooler and Holland was gassed when he finished. He crawled under my truck to dig a cool hole to lay in and took 15-20 minutes for him to cool off completely. Spectacular terrain, beautiful countryside with steep tall hills, and a beautiful test to watch and in my case run.


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## Tim West

Ed, is the 2 1/2 minutes that the judges give the dogs to hunt before they have to handle based on time management or their concern that the dogs will over heat?


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## Chris Atkinson

EdA said:


> The left flier is flighted from near the top of a hill and falls downhill 60-75 yards from the guns. The rooster is in the air for so long most dogs quit watching anticipating the short (210yards) hen flier in the middle. Several dogs have gone outside the fall of the left flier and kept going seemingly not noting or identifying the one thrower and 3 shooters at the top of the hill to their left as being associated with a mark. I ran fifth, thank goodness, when it was cloudy and cooler and Holland was gassed when he finished. He crawled under my truck to dig a cool hole to lay in and took 15-20 minutes for him to cool off completely. Spectacular terrain, beautiful countryside with steep tall hills, and a beautiful test to watch and in my case run.


It really is beautiful up there. I ran a test on the grounds last year and was wishing I'd brought a flyrod. There's some neat little trout streamy stuff nearby. 

Good luck Dr. Ed. We're pulling for Holland (and you)! 

Chris


----------



## EdA

Tim West said:


> Ed, is the 2 1/2 minutes that the judges give the dogs to hunt before they have to handle based on time management or their concern that the dogs will over heat?


I cannot answer that. When I ran there was no such directive. I suspect it may be a little of both. I did not time the test but expect 8 dogs per hour and since this is Wednesday they will quit early for the Workers Party. They started at 11:30 and if the stop at 6 PM they will not complete series 5 until noon tomorrow. Series 6 should be a land blind so they might start 7 tomorrow afternoon since it is on the Spangler property also.


----------



## Doug Main

EdA said:


> I cannot answer that. When I ran there was no such directive. I suspect it may be a little of both. I did not time the test but expect 8 dogs per hour and *since this is Wednesday* they will quit early for the Workers Party. They started at 11:30 and if the stop at 6 PM they will not complete series 5 until noon tomorrow. Series 6 should be a land blind so they might start 7 tomorrow afternoon since it is on the Spangler property also.


I know you've lost track of time, but it's Tuesday here.


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

EdA said:


> I cannot answer that. When I ran there was no such directive. I suspect it may be a little of both. I did not time the test but expect 8 dogs per hour and since this is Wednesday they will quit early for the Workers Party. They started at 11:30 and if the stop at 6 PM they will not complete series 5 until noon tomorrow. Series 6 should be a land blind so they might start 7 tomorrow afternoon since it is on the Spangler property also.


Today is Wednesday? Where the hell they running this?

/Paul


----------



## shawninthesticks

DR. Ed is just ready to party. It's Wednesday some where Doc! Good Luck !


----------



## BonMallari

so the quote " ..Tide and time wait for no man.." should now include '...and dog"

anyone else notice quite a few YELLOW dogs in the pictures of the contestants...Love it


----------



## EdA

Doug Main said:


> I know you've lost track of time, but it's Tuesday here.


Whew! That's good to know, I knew it was day 3 of the trial so I thinking Wed since we used to start Monday. Up at 4-4:30 every morning makes it easy to forget there is another world out there!


----------



## EdA

Shawn White said:


> DR. Ed is just ready to party. It's Wednesday some where Doc! Good Luck !


My party tonight will be Grey Goose and chicken Caesar salad in the room, martini sounds pretty good right now, bye!


----------



## huntinman

It's 5 o'clock somewhere


----------



## Bridget Bodine

Continued good luck To Dr Ed and Holland!


----------



## BonMallari

huntinman said:


> It's 5 o'clock somewhere


What time zone am on? What country am I in?
It doesn't matter, it's five o'clock somewhere.
It's always on five in Margaritaville, come to think of it.
Yeah, I heard that.
You been there haven't you.
Yessir.
I seen your boat there.
I've been to Margaritaville a few times.
All right, that's good.


----------



## EdA

View from the gallery of series 5


----------



## huntinman

BonMallari said:


> What time zone am on? What country am I in?
> It doesn't matter, it's five o'clock somewhere.
> It's always on five in Margaritaville, come to think of it.
> Yeah, I heard that.
> You been there haven't you.
> Yessir.
> I seen your boat there.
> I've been to Margaritaville a few times.
> All right, that's good.


Ah yeah... I'm actually late... Gotta get out of this office. Been hard to concentrate anyway! iPad right next to my computer and on the phone too. The day flew by... I need a drink... And I rarely drink. Imagine if you were entered?


----------



## john fallon

Speeking of time, how late are they running ?

john


----------



## Travis Schneider

That property is beautiful, thanks for sharing that picture.


----------



## Frank Jones

That puts the terrain into great perspective! What a shot! Beautiful!

rita


----------



## BonMallari

nice job to # 17 Lucy with owner/handler Josie Ottman... you go girl


----------



## shawninthesticks

john fallon said:


> Speeking of time, how late are they running ?
> 
> john


Blog says 7:00 or dog #45 which ever comes first.


----------



## BonMallari

huntinman said:


> Ah yeah... I'm actually late... Gotta get out of this office. Been hard to concentrate anyway! iPad right next to my computer and on the phone too. The day flew by... I need a drink... And I rarely drink. *Imagine if you were entered*?


there would be someone saying"....oh waiter, can you fetch me another cocktail.." :razz::razz:


----------



## EdA

Frank Jones said:


> That puts the terrain into great perspective! What a shot! Beautiful!
> 
> rita


If there is anyplace more spectacular I have not been there. These brave people have given retriever junkies a view of summertime retriever paradise, the landowners will undoubtedly have many new friends, thanks to all of them for giving us a chance to see and compete on such wonderful grounds. The pond at Spangler's is equally spectacular, I will take more pictures tomorrow.


----------



## AmiableLabs

#30 SMACKED IT!!! Finally.


----------



## kjrice

EdA said:


> View attachment 13705
> View from the gallery of series 5


It's like a golf course for dogs.


----------



## roseberry

dr. ed,

i have only been in one place prettier than that.......i was resuscitated and came back to alabama though!

congrats on a great 5th, kick some butt and let that big dog roll!


----------



## Granddaddy

Cowtown said:


> Not sure I understand. On the converse, set up a JH test and that proves nothing but hey the judges get to judge. This is the National...the best of the best dogs. I'd rather see hard tests. I don't want to see every dog pass every test with no handles and the judges having to decide. I want hard tests to test these great dogs and for the tests to separate the pack.


Of course you'd use a ridiculous example of a JH test to prove a point while ignoring the essence of what I said. A knowledgeable judge on tough grounds can setup a test where only the lucky survive versus the skilled. It is the judge's job to test the dogs and have the skilled survive. This is far from "penciling out dogs". Yes, the tests do in fact separate the dogs & have provided a winner every year the nat'ls have been held but it doesn't mean that a judge shouldn't judge. There is much more to judging than just setting up a test & fold the page when a dog is picked up. And I'm quite aware of what a national holds..........


----------



## Bruce L

EdA said:


> Whew! That's good to know, I knew it was day 3 of the trial so I thinking Wed since we used to start Monday. Up at 4-4:30 every morning makes it easy to forget there is another world out there!


Bear down......... you can worry about sleep, rest, and what day of the week it is later........... however, a Grey Goose martini on the rocks, dry, and extra dirty is certainly proven to have therapeutic value!


----------



## Granddaddy

EdA said:


> The left flier is flighted from near the top of a hill and falls downhill 60-75 yards from the guns. The rooster is in the air for so long most dogs quit watching anticipating the short (210yards) hen flier in the middle. Several dogs have gone outside the fall of the left flier and kept going seemingly not noting or identifying the one thrower and 3 shooters at the top of the hill to their left as being associated with a mark. I ran fifth, thank goodness, when it was cloudy and cooler and Holland was gassed when he finished. He crawled under my truck to dig a cool hole to lay in and took 15-20 minutes for him to cool off completely. Spectacular terrain, beautiful countryside with steep tall hills, and a beautiful test to watch and in my case run.


I remember the first time I ran at Randy's where they had a bird on that same hill. With no prior training on such hills (a clift almost), I couldn't even get my dogs to look up there. Particpants could see more of this at Parrott's too.


----------



## Purpledawg

Is there a list of key bird skills to be a finalist?


----------



## John Lash

I don't know if there's a list, but if you're a finalist your dog certainly has some key bird skills.


----------



## JKOttman

Doug Main said:


> Tim is talking about interrupted marks, here where a double is thrown, but a blind is run 1st. I think he is correct. They have done singles with a blind before, but not a double that I am aware.


In the combined first and second series you picked up the marks and THEN ran the blind. In the combined third and fourth. They shot the marks, you did the blind and THEN picked up the marks.


----------



## byounglove

*Finalist skills*



John Lash said:


> I don't know if there's a list, but if you're a finalist your dog certainly has some key bird skills.


Very well said, John!!


----------



## Cowtown

Granddaddy said:


> Of course you'd use a ridiculous example of a JH test to prove a point while ignoring the essence of what I said. A knowledgeable judge on tough grounds can setup a test where only the lucky survive versus the skilled. It is the judge's job to test the dogs and have the skilled survive. This is far from "penciling out dogs". Yes, the tests do in fact separate the dogs & have provided a winner every year the nat'ls have been held but it doesn't mean that a judge shouldn't judge. There is much more to judging than just setting up a test & fold the page when a dog is picked up. And I'm quite aware of what a national holds..........


\

There's a reason PGA tourneys aren't held at putt putt. You're not understanding my point either, which is illustrated perfectly with the JH example.

Are you saying the only dogs passing this test are lucky?


----------



## 2tall

Non judgmental includes "best job of the day"? It's true I've seen very little disparaging comments, but maybe some extra enthusiasm for some? Also a lot of holes. I understand the techno problems causing delays, but how do they skip over reports? I am enjoying the blog, just wish I could keep up a little better.


----------



## Golddogs

EdA said:


> If there is anyplace more spectacular I have not been there. These brave people have given retriever junkies a view of summertime retriever paradise, the landowners will undoubtedly have many new friends, thanks to all of them for giving us a chance to see and compete on such wonderful grounds. The pond at Spangler's is equally spectacular, I will take more pictures tomorrow.


And Randy dug them himself. The area is pretty unique.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Fifth series, second day, finishing up.

Stronger breeze left to right seems to have made the left flyer work generally better, and the right retired generally worse. Also possible handlers have concentrated so hard in preparation on bringing the left bird home, they forgot the formidability of the long retired.

The long retired is 310 yards, thrown up the side of a hill in heavy cover. You need a strong dog with tons of desire just to be willing to do it after hunting for two flyers in a hot sun. 

The test is still a ball buster.


----------



## Granddaddy

Cowtown said:


> \
> 
> There's a reason PGA tourneys aren't held at putt putt. You're not understanding my point either, which is illustrated perfectly with the JH example.
> 
> Are you saying the only dogs passing this test are lucky?


Failed again with your putt-putt example, because again there is much difference between a putt-putt course and a full length championship golf course. But let's stick to dogs and setups. I fully understand your over-simplified examples but they just aren't representative of the intent of the discussion. My response to both of your examples is that it is not a choice between easy on one hand and so difficult on the other that only a few dogs complete the test. With AA setups, they are so much more difficult than a JH test that it makes your example foolish. Surely you will grant that there is a lot of ground between a JH setup and an extreme AA setup that causes the dogs to consistently eliminate themselves. The best tests are those than take advantage of the terrain & other conditions yet are doable by a skilled dog on his game. When dogs eliminate themselves consistently, there is usually something about the test the failing dogs don't see. It might be unfair to dogs early or late due to lighting conditions, so the luck of the draw determines those successful. It might be a bird that is too long for conditions where only dogs that run straight for a long distance get there, as opposed to using marking skills. It might be a bird placement that will only rewards dogs that cheat downwind. It might be a bird placement that is not hard to find except that it just requires a dog to stay in the water for an extended distance & he'll eventually stumble upon the bird. I would advocate for tests that do test the marking skills of the dogs, yet be a test that is fair in terms of lighting for the dogs that run whether early or late or during mid-day, that aren't so long that the dogs can't see the bird in the air, birds that don't trick the dogs by optical illusions and setups that aren't so tight as to have over-lapping AOFs, etc.

I'm not saying this as related to the current nat'l tests. I'm not there and cannot judge the setups but I don't think that any judge should just setup a test so difficult that only the lucky survive & so just sit back and fold pages or (to address you ridiculous example) so easy that the entire field is successful. The skilled judge sets up difficult tests that provide separation between the dogs so that clear-cut callbacks can be made & eventually pick a winner. Sure a limited number of dogs will pick up on a difficult test, some more will have extended hunts on a bird or two, but some will drill the test. And from the separation gained from a difficult yet fair test, the skilled judge will JUDGE the dogs to make his callbacks. No problem to document those dogs that picked up, but the judge must discern good work from poor work in difficult but good, fair setups.

My whole point to comment were the posts by some that advocate for tests where dogs eliminate themselves, making the erroneous equivocation that to drop dogs otherwise is to pencil them out - to which I strong disagree.


----------



## DoubleHaul

Looks like dog 87 nailed it! Go Classy Girl and Johnny!


----------



## 2tall

Has #86 had a re-run yet?


----------



## FOM

Yes - they are done...waiting for callbacks


----------



## Granddaddy

2tall said:


> Has #86 had a re-run yet?


Looks like a lot of no-bird/re-runs (could be expected with two flyers, esp if they are pheasants & even more so with a middle flyer). This was the hardest part for Stella & I. She'd get so amp'd up after 45 mins in holding blinds, then to get a no-bird and get another 45 mins in holding blinds is very, very difficult and can really work on a dog and its handler. Not as tough with my Dude. He was much more laid back & it helped me relax too.


----------



## ramblinmaxx

BonMallari said:


> nice job to # 17 Lucy with owner/handler Josie Ottman... you go girl


Yes, great work Josie and Lucy! Sure is cool seeing a Ramblin Maxx Pup in the National.

Marty


----------



## blake_mhoona

2tall said:


> Has #86 had a re-run yet?


that little chocolate dog is doing good so far. i think she's clean through 5 on handles


MF: got it clean

LF: straight to the bird

RR: Excellent mark


----------



## FOM

Callbacks to 6th: 1, 2, 4, 6, *9*, 10, 12, *17*, 18, 22, 23, 25, 26, *27*, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, *33*, 36, 40, 42, 43, 47, 51, 52, 57, *59*, 60, 61, *64*, 68, *70*, *71*, 72, 73, 77, *81*, *84*, 85, 86, 87, 90, 92, 98, *99*, 104, 106, *111*, 115, 117, 119 (53 total)

Dogs dropped: 3, 8, 13, 15, 19, 20, 24, 34, 35, 37, 38, 45, 46, 49, 50, 58, 74, 75, 76, 79, 82, 89, 100, 102, 107, 108, 112, 113, 116, 120, 121, 122 (32 total)

Edit: added color to show handles and which series...I'm trying to avoid real work...


----------



## blake_mhoona

so far started with 121. 

going into 3rd 112 were called back so 7.4% of the field was dropped.

going into 5th 85 were called back so 24.1% of the field was dropped.

going into 6th 51 were called back so 40% of the field was dropped.


overall 57.8% of the dogs from the original 121 were dropped

seem on par?


----------



## DoubleHaul

FOM said:


> Callbacks to 6th: 1, 2, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12, 17, 18, *22, 23, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33*, 36, 40, 42, 43, 47, 51, 52, 57, 59, 60, 61, 64, 68, 70, 71, 72, 73, 77, 81, 84, 85, 86, 87, 90, 92, 98, 99, 111, 115, 117, 119 (51 total)
> 
> Dogs dropped: 3, 8, 13, 15, 19, 20, 24, 34, 35, 37, 38, 45, 46, 49, 50, 58, 74, 75, 76, 79, 82, 89, 100, 102, 104, 106, 107, 108, 112, 113, 116, 120, 121, 122 (34 total)


Nice little run there in the middle. I would have tried to be over at the open and showed up to run my dog during this stretch


----------



## blake_mhoona

DoubleHaul said:


> Nice little run there in the middle. I would have tried to be over at the open and showed up to run my dog during this stretch


maybe around noon where sun was brightest? i know they said late afternoon was bad and early morning was a bit cloudy?


----------



## 2tall

So sorry to see Holland gone! This was tough work on the old and the young. It looks like this was one for the "prime" years. Sorry Dr. Ed.


----------



## FOM

blake_mhoona said:


> so far started with 121.
> 
> going into 3rd 112 were called back so 7.4% of the field was dropped.
> 
> going into 5th 85 were called back so 24.1% of the field was dropped.
> 
> going into 6th 51 were called back so 40% of the field was dropped.
> 
> 
> overall 57.8% of the dogs from the original 121 were dropped
> 
> seem on par?


Look at the bottom of the Summary list here on RTF - there are stats for many years, I'll post up the stats for the 5th after I get some lunch...


----------



## Granddaddy

Judges are fully in control of this one, 51 dogs and 5 series to go. Shouldn't be any dogs "penciled out" for those concerned about that.


----------



## leemac

The callbacks page has been updated and it shows Dr Ed is still playing. There is a difference in the # of dogs listed and the total they say are back. Any word from WI?


----------



## CLindsay

75 and 120 are not X'd out on the callbacks page. I believe that is how the 53 came up. I did see 120 was a pickup but what about 75.


----------



## Granddaddy

51 or 53 still playing?


----------



## CLindsay

Looks like from 98 Down the X's have not been done.


----------



## CLindsay

Found 75 was a pickup also.


----------



## FOM

Granddaddy said:


> 51 or 53 still playing?


I think there are now 53 back, the CB list is missing dogs 104 an 106...


----------



## FOM

I did confirm, there are 53 dogs back, the CB list on the blog is currently missing dogs 104 and 106...I've updated the Summary List here on RTF, it is as accurate as it can be from afar...


----------



## Lesa Cozens Dauphin

Thanks, Lainee! I sure was hoping Holland (104) was still in.

Once again you are doing a super job, Marty and I sure appreciate all your efforts.

lesa c


----------



## Tim West

Holland is in the callback list on the website, not the blog. Did Holland handle?


----------



## AmiableLabs

Fifty-three called back to sixth. Dr. Ed still playing.

Lots of dogs are still looking good so far. 

Sixth is a pretty straightforward land blind. Past the flyer bird crates through a relatively wide keyhole. Judges let it known to the marshals who let it known to the handlers that they want the lines tight.

Work is going very fast. I will be surprised if they lose more than five dogs.


----------



## FOM

Tim West said:


> Holland is in the callback list on the website, not the blog. Did Holland handle?


As far as I know, no he did not...


----------



## FOM

hahahahaha - now the blog shows 51 back, guess they read RTF...talk about funny! Okay my sources on the ground with dogs entered say there are 53 dogs back...and the summary list here on RTF reflect those numbers...the callbacks list looks correct, too.


----------



## FOM

The blind is going quickly, with most dogs doing it, they should be finished about 4:00....they will not start the 7th series which will be a water blind.


----------



## Lesa Cozens Dauphin

How will they handle it for Lucy (#17)? There was no bird at the end of the blind, rerun?

lesa c


----------



## FOM

Lesa Cozens Dauphin said:


> How will they handle it for Lucy (#17)? There was no bird at the end of the blind, rerun?
> 
> lesa c


My best guess would be they would judge to the pin...no re-run.


----------



## EdA

FOM said:


> As far as I know, no he did not...


he did not handle and he is back the blog is wrong both 104 and 106 are back 53 dogs


----------



## Lesa Cozens Dauphin

FOM said:


> My best guess would be they would judge to the pin...no re-run.


Thanks, Marty and I weren't sure what they would do. 

lesa c


----------



## Lesa Cozens Dauphin

EdA said:


> he did not handle and he is back the blog is wrong both 104 and 106 are back 53 dogs


YAY!!!

Glad to see he is still there. He is on my finalist list.

lesa c


----------



## Dave Farrar

EdA said:


> he did not handle and he is back the blog is wrong both 104 and 106 are back 53 dogs


It's pretty cool getting updates from someone in the big game. Almost like being able to talk to Joe Montana during a Super Bowl. 
Go Holland


----------



## huntinman

Lesa Cozens Dauphin said:


> YAY!!!
> 
> Glad to see he is still there. He is on my finalist list.
> 
> lesa c


Mine too... Keep up the good work Doc!


----------



## AmiableLabs

Dr. Ed and Holland had a very nice blind. Looking good.


----------



## Chris Atkinson

EdA said:


> he did not handle and he is back the blog is wrong both 104 and 106 are back 53 dogs


Congrats Ed...., we're pulling for you.


----------



## Bridget Bodine

chris atkinson said:


> congrats ed...., we're pulling for you.


ditto! !!!!!


----------



## Breck

Go git em' all you marvelous Keila puppies! Juice, Pink & Mercy
John's Mercy really resembles Darla in todays pic.
Good luck the rest of the week.......
.
.
PS
Looking to see that Kuna puppy playing at the end too!
good luck


----------



## Breck

jdustin81 said:


> On the retrievernews.com blog what does the B M and E mean? Sixth series


They are simply reporting number of whistles for the B Beginning, M Middle and E End of the blind.
whistle counting doesn't tell much really.


----------



## EdA

JTS said:


> blog had 50 back to the 7th 3 dropped from the 6th..... don't have the numbers because its not appearing on the blog any longer


Unofficial 17, 32, 61 dropped


----------



## huntinman

Lost 2 really good dogs from my pickem on the 5th series marks 38 JerryLee and 122 Chef (a Finalist last year in his first national). Hate to see them go, but that was a tough set of marks... Lost a couple of National champs too.


----------



## Sharon Potter

It was nice meeting you!
Love, Ginny


----------



## John Daniels

Breck said:


> Go git em' all you marvelous Keila puppies! Juice, Pink & Mercy


I've got all 3 on my Pick 'Em. Seems to be working out pretty good so far.


----------



## Darin Westphal

Sorry if I missed it, but the 7th is still planned on being at Randy's correct? Going to head over in the morning.


----------



## kjrice

Breck said:


> They are simply reporting number of whistles for the B Beginning, M Middle and E End of the blind.
> whistle counting doesn't tell much really.


Yep a useless stat not even worth mentioning.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Darin Westphal said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but the 7th is still planned on being at Randy's correct? Going to head over in the morning.


Yes. I was told both 7th and 8th at Randy's.

Unless the judges change their minds of course.


----------



## BonMallari

4 series to go...3 days left...50 dogs...I am guessing the 10th is a quad, so that leaves a water blind,and two other water/land marking tests...just wild guess


----------



## huntinman

BonMallari said:


> 4 series to go...3 days left...50 dogs...I am guessing the 10th is a quad, so that leaves a water blind,and two other water/land marking tests...just wild guess


I was told by a contestant that water marks are on the menu for the 7th...


----------



## firehouselabs

The entry express pick em is really taking a beating this year!!! I have a few "favorite" virtual "unknowns" that I am keeping my eye on and my fingers and toes crossed for, although there really isn't any dog remaining- and some that aren't- that wouldn't deserve to be one of the last dogs standing.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Seventh series watermarks. Another ball buster.


----------



## john fallon

AmiableLabs said:


> Seventh series watermarks. Another ball buster.
> 
> View attachment 13710


Is that a picture taken from the gallery ?

john


----------



## JusticeDog

john fallon said:


> Is that a picture taken from the gallery ?
> 
> john


 no. it is well back of the line. Jack unbehan and Lynn Moore have great pics in their Facebook page.


----------



## AmiableLabs

john fallon said:


> Is that a picture taken from the gallery ?
> 
> john


Yes. They moved the gallery high up on the hill behind. Not the best view.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Seventh series. Early morning gallery high on hill, test site in background below.

Averaging over 15 minutes a dog. Throw in gun changes and the like and the test will be even longer. Handlers grumbling.


----------



## H2O_Control_guy

I'm home from working traffic since Sunday. I got to know a bunch of really nice people while sneaking in some training and just being around. Pulling for a nice chocolate dog #86 in Ammo and handled by Bill P. Also pulling for #25 Jake & Bobby Smith! Let's everyone hope that they don't get a bunch of rain to make navigation of the hilly terrain difficult.


----------



## Brandoned

AmiableLabs said:


> Seventh series watermarks. Another ball buster.
> 
> View attachment 13710


3 very nice big marks, I like it!


----------



## BonMallari

> *The Handler Instructions: If a contestant has a Handle or equivalent work to a Handle in the books and the contestant has to Handle the dog to a mark in the 7th Series Watermarks the contestant will be asked to pick up there dog and will not be allowed to finish the series.


guess that puts a few on notice...is there a time element involved too ?


----------



## Charles C.

The flyer will be on the ground before the shot reaches the line. Also looks like a tree directly in line with the right hand fall that would literally prevent the dog from taking a straight line to the bird. Could be a very, very difficult test.


----------



## Granddaddy

Breck said:


> Go git em' all you marvelous Keila puppies! Juice, Pink & Mercy .......


Yep, Stella & I are pulling for her littermates, Juice & Pink. Freeway (injury) & Stella (pregnancy) had their turn last summer, time for these two to shine at the nat'l Am.


----------



## Granddaddy

Big test, glad to see them keep it going & wish we were there. Wonder how the handlers would know if they are considered to have "an equivalent work to a handle..."? Hope the judges aren't making a moment to moment decision & worked out/agreed last night who the dogs are that are in that shape. I think if I didn't have a handle, I'd continue to let the dog work until I got other instructions not wanting to assume anything........


----------



## john fallon

The south side of a two and a half minute hunt might be a precarious place to be......

john


----------



## BonMallari

maybe they announce it like the NFL draft.... " dog number _____ you are on the clock"


----------



## EdA

10 dogs run in 2.5 hours, 4 pickups (47,59,64,70) and 1 handle (51), currently in a rain/thunderstorm delay


----------



## kjrice

Granddaddy said:


> Big test, glad to see them keep it going & wish we were there. Wonder how the handlers would know if they are considered to have "an equivalent work to a handle..."? Hope the judges aren't making a moment to moment decision & worked out/agreed last night who the dogs are that are in that shape. I think if I didn't have a handle, I'd continue to let the dog work until I got other instructions not wanting to assume anything........


Since the rule book states that big hunts are to be penalized more severely than a quick handle, I would suspect that is your answer. It seems most of these handlers should have a good idea if their dog had a big hunt. If not, it will be another step in the learning curve. You can bet these three judges had their lists tight before today's event. But I agree if in doubt w/o a handle, let the judges judge and take your chances.


----------



## Granddaddy

This test is taking a toll.........


----------



## Granddaddy

kjrice said:


> Since the rule book states that big hunts are to be penalized more severely than a quick handle, I would suspect that is your answer. It seems most of these handlers should have a good idea if their dog had a big hunt. If not, it will be another step in the learning curve. You can bet these three judges have their lists tight before today's event.


I've talked to two who have already run & they say no one is assuming anything.........they'll let their dogs work until receiving further instructions. Seems the judges aren't shy about providing further instructions........example, dog 59


----------



## kjrice

I agreed in an edit to my original post.


----------



## EdA

Granddaddy said:


> Big test, glad to see them keep it going & wish we were there. Wonder how the handlers would know if they are considered to have "an equivalent work to a handle..."? Hope the judges aren't making a moment to moment decision & worked out/agreed last night who the dogs are that are in that shape. I think if I didn't have a handle, I'd continue to let the dog work until I got other instructions not wanting to assume anything........


Reliable source (not the judges) says they have 30 dogs in considerable peril, 17 of those 30 are carrying handles

So far one hour fifteen minute rain delay, they will probably not finish this series today


----------



## huntinman

EdA said:


> Reliable source (not the judges) says they have 30 dogs in considerable peril, 17 of those 30 are carrying handles


From the sounds of it, the whole field has been in considerable peril from the start... Especially with the stopwatches running


----------



## Jan Helgoth

*The Handler Instructions: If a contestant has a Handle or equivalent work to a Handle in the books and the contestant has to Handle the dog to a mark in the 7th Series Watermarks the contestant will be asked to pick up their dog and will not be allowed to finish the series. 



BonMallari said:


> guess that puts a few on notice...is there a time element involved too ?


 *(i.e. - like yesterday)*

Personally, the instructions in this year's National AM are driving me crazy! Where are they getting this stuff? Where is the polite etiquette, gallantry and compassion for the time and money that these contestants have invested?

It seems very arrogant, self-serving and decision-disconnected to me and I hope this is the first and last National that is allowed to run this way. Where are the good manners and common courtesy that used to be the *cool* part of Field Trials?

It's all about "Time Management" they will say - it seems to me to be all about hurry up and drop 'em as soon as you can.

The tests have been really good though - I appreciate that from these judges. For me, it's kind-a like the boss that knows how to do a good job and has really good ideas, but can't get any employee support because of the way he treats people. 

They would never allow this to happen in Golf which is still a gentleman's (and gentlewoman's) game. Call me old-fashioned, I guess, but I think it is taking away something from the experience for these awesome contestants and their fine animals.


----------



## Dos Patos

Man this is crazy!


----------



## EdA

Dos Patos said:


> Man this is crazy!


There is some grumbling (there always is) but the contestants are not nearly as disturbed as the Internet observers are. Most on the bubble know it and know they cannot afford anything but a minor mistake. The length of this test and the time lost to weather are becoming a factor with 2 1/2 days remaining. They had hoped to start a water blind today, now they will not finish 7 and will have a big move tomorrow after 8.

Rain just stopped by the time the guns are in the field they just lost two hours.


----------



## kjrice

I don't know but maybe you can look at it that they are being kind and courteous to everyone and not just the person at the line. Think of the handlers waiting forever in the holding blinds or handlers that would push the limits with over-heating their dogs trying to get one more series. I am not trying to argue but offer a different view.


----------



## Raymond Little

What is the true yardage on each of the 3 water marks?


----------



## EdA

raymond little said:


> what is the true yardage on each of the 3 water marks?


r 200, m 343, f 387


----------



## helencalif

After seeing the photos of the 7th series, I wish I was there watching this test. Survival in mind...
Helen


----------



## huntinman

Jan Helgoth said:


> *The Handler Instructions: If a contestant has a Handle or equivalent work to a Handle in the books and the contestant has to Handle the dog to a mark in the 7th Series Watermarks the contestant will be asked to pick up their dog and will not be allowed to finish the series.
> 
> *(i.e. - like yesterday!)*
> 
> Personally, the instructions in this year's National AM are driving me crazy! Where are they getting this stuff? Where is the polite etiquette, gallantry and compassion for the time and money that these contestants have invested?
> 
> It seems very arrogant, self-serving and decision-disconnected to me and I hope this is the first and last National that is allowed to run this way. Where are the good manners and common courtesy that used to be the *cool* part of Field Trials?
> 
> It's all about "Time Management" they will say - it seems to me to be all about hurry up and drop 'em as soon as you can.
> 
> The tests have been really good though - I appreciate that from these judges. For me, it's kind-a like the boss that knows how to do a good job and has really good ideas, but can't get any employee support because of the way he treats people.
> 
> They would never allow this to happen in Golf which is still a gentleman's (and gentlewoman's) game. Call me old-fashioned, I guess, but I think it is taking away something from the experience for these awesome contestants and their fine animals.




Great post!


----------



## Raymond Little

EdA said:


> r 200, m 343, f 387


Do they have a chair for the handler to sit in while they wait??????????


----------



## blake_mhoona

Jan Helgoth said:


> *The Handler Instructions: If a contestant has a Handle or equivalent work to a Handle in the books and the contestant has to Handle the dog to a mark in the 7th Series Watermarks the contestant will be asked to pick up their dog and will not be allowed to finish the series.
> 
> *(i.e. - like yesterday)*
> 
> Personally, the instructions in this year's National AM are driving me crazy! Where are they getting this stuff? Where is the polite etiquette, gallantry and compassion for the time and money that these contestants have invested?
> 
> It seems very arrogant, self-serving and decision-disconnected to me and I hope this is the first and last National that is allowed to run this way. Where are the good manners and common courtesy that used to be the *cool* part of Field Trials?
> 
> It's all about "Time Management" they will say - it seems to me to be all about hurry up and drop 'em as soon as you can.
> 
> The tests have been really good though - I appreciate that from these judges. For me, it's kind-a like the boss that knows how to do a good job and has really good ideas, but can't get any employee support because of the way he treats people.
> 
> *They would never allow this to happen in Golf which is still a gentleman's (and gentlewoman's) game. Call me old-fashioned, I guess, but I think it is taking away something from the experience for these awesome contestants and their fine animals*.


guess you never heard of the slow play penalty? ask the 14 year old chinese kid at the masters about that.


----------



## helencalif

Jan,

A national event is a lot about time management so you can get in 10 series. Weather is always a factor. Today with Series #7 they have a lengthy rain delay for a big test (12-17 min per dog and there were 50 to run.) EdA has explained how the rain delay has crushed plans -- #7 won't end today and they won't start #8 water blind today. #7 will finish tomorrow and #8 will start tomorrow. Tomorrow is Friday. There's still at least one quad to come ... perhaps this year it will be series #10 -- if they can get in a 10th series. If #7 eliminates a lot of dogs and #8 is a water blind, they might finish #8 by tomorrow night. That leaves 9 and 10-for Saturday and one of them will be a time consuming quad. 

Can a National Am end with only 9 series or is 10 required?

Helen


----------



## Sharon Potter

If you think of the test in terms of distance, if a dog goes in a perfect line straight out and straight back on each mark, it's well over a mile of hard running/swimming...and that doesn't count any deviation, plus the dog has to spend half of that mile+ trying to breathe with a bird in its mouth. Tough on dogs, especially in the heat.


----------



## amm

What really bothers me - and this may seem crazy - but I think it is disrespectful to the dogs not to let them complete the test. They don't know they've failed.


----------



## Dos Patos

EdA said:


> There is some grumbling (there always is) but the contestants are not nearly as disturbed as the Internet observers are. Most on the bubble know it and know they cannot afford anything but a minor mistake. The length of this test and the time lost to weather are becoming a factor with 2 1/2 days remaining. They had hoped to start a water blind today, now they will not finish 7 and will have a big move tomorrow after 8.
> 
> Rain just stopped by the time the guns are in the field they just lost two hours.


As far as my post goes I just meant that I'm on pins and needles!


----------



## huntinman

helencalif said:


> Jan,
> 
> A national event is a lot about time management so you can get in 10 series. Weather is always a factor. Today with Series #7 they have a lengthy rain delay for a big test (12-17 min per dog and there were 50 to run.) EdA has explained how the rain delay has crushed plans -- #7 won't end today and they won't start #8 water blind today. #7 will finish tomorrow and #8 will start tomorrow. Tomorrow is Friday. There's still at least one quad to come ... perhaps this year it will be series #10 -- if they can get in a 10th series. If #7 eliminates a lot of dogs and #8 is a water blind, they might finish #8 by tomorrow night. That leaves 9 and 10-for Saturday and one of them will be a time consuming quad.
> 
> Can a National Am end with only 9 series or is 10 required?
> 
> Helen


Helen, they aren't going to have that many dogs left in the 8th, 9th and 10th (and one of those will be a blind) It's about to the point of a weekend trial. Except that they are starting on the water, the good thing for the judges is this water test will weed out a majority of the dogs. A good many of them have a handle (or equivalent thereof ). It's not going to take much to get the kiss of death...


----------



## Granddaddy

huntinman said:


> Helen, they aren't going to have that many dogs left in the 8th, 9th and 10th (and one of those will be a blind) It's about to the point of a weekend trial. Except that they are starting on the water, the good thing for the judges is this water test will weed out a majority of the dogs. A good many of them have a handle (or equivalent thereof ). It's not going to take much to get the kiss of death...


32 dogs without a handle going into the 7th (can't speak to the "equivalent" but I'm sure there are a number of those too). 3 days to get a winner from 53 dogs, many of which seem to picking up in the 7th, at least so far.


----------



## Mountain Duck

Sharon Potter said:


> If you think of the test in terms of distance, if a dog goes in a perfect line straight out and straight back on each mark, it's well over a mile of hard running/swimming...and that doesn't count any deviation, plus the dog has to spend half of that mile+ trying to breathe with a bird in its mouth. Tough on dogs, especially in the heat.


Wonder how many will break on the honor?!?!


----------



## scott spalding

They have plenty of time if they can get through the eighth by the end of the day Friday which they will they will and run 9 and 10 with a limited field. It seems to work out without much of a hitch every year from what I have seen.


----------



## huntinman

scott spalding said:


> They have plenty of time if they can get through the eighth by the end of the day Friday which they will they will and run 9 and 10 with a limited field. It seems to work out without much of a hitch every year from what I have seen.


Yep.......


----------



## FOM

They are back up and running...


----------



## Jan Helgoth

I don't think that a Quad is mandatory at the National AM. Nor does it seem to be necessary at this one - they have plenty of answers already.

And while I appreciate the alternative view, I personally would not mind waiting in the holding blind an extra minute or two if they would not be so rude to my friend in front of me (and potentially to me as the next contestant). 

And I don't think it is about the dogs getting hot - it's a relatively cool day there.


----------



## huntinman

72 handled, 73 PU


----------



## huntinman

I wonder if they the NARC and the NRC have ever considered Twitter?

The blog is like waiting on the Pony Express. 

It would be much more timely. Just a thought... Maybe I should know better. 

Most good college baseball teams do it these days... So they are doing multiple posts in a short period of time. Yet, it's still possible to follow the game.


----------



## blake_mhoona

huntinman said:


> I wonder if they the NARC and the NRC have ever considered Twitter?
> 
> The blog is like waiting on the Pony Express.
> 
> It would be much more timely. Just a thought... Maybe I should know better.
> 
> Most good college baseball teams do it these days... So they are doing multiple posts in a short period of time. Yet, it's still possible to follow the game.


i thought the same exact thing monday. i searched all over twitter to see if anyone was using a hashtag of some sort or was live tweeting it. but alas none. the akc did make mention of the event but that was it.

however from what i understand cell service is pretty bad and they are using runners etc to get information to the computers?


----------



## FOM

Twitter, FB or even a BB like RTF...way faster, not to mention they could be txting info to a "home base" and posting from there...but hey what do I know??


----------



## huntinman

Folks are Tweeting from anywhere in the world... War zones even...

I've been to some of the most remote areas in Alaska on hunting trips and pull out a Satellite phone and call my wife... Sounds like I'm sitting right next door. 

This is 2013... Jeesh.


----------



## Brandoned

EdA said:


> There is some grumbling (there always is) but the contestants are not nearly as disturbed as the Internet observers are. Most on the bubble know it and know they cannot afford anything but a minor mistake. The length of this test and the time lost to weather are becoming a factor with 2 1/2 days remaining. They had hoped to start a water blind today, now they will not finish 7 and will have a big move tomorrow after 8.
> 
> Rain just stopped by the time the guns are in the field they just lost two hours.


Ed say it ain't so?? People who aren't even there are not happy with the test, now that's a first


----------



## truka

huntinman said:


> I wonder if they the NARC and the NRC have ever considered Twitter?
> 
> The blog is like waiting on the Pony Express.
> 
> It would be much more timely. Just a thought... Maybe I should know better.
> 
> Most good college baseball teams do it these days... So they are doing multiple posts in a short period of time. Yet, it's still possible to follow the game.


Bill, I've wondered and even suggested on a comment on the blog that RN explore avenues like Twitter and Instagram. They've reported numerous times that they will only give "generalities" and not report on dog performance, Twitter is a great venue. "Dog #23, GB smacked it, MB long hunt, RL drilled it clean run #2013NARC" or "Dog 125, Tuck handled by Trudie Kuka, completed the blind #NARCMondavi". 

Use the blog to report on test set ups, general atmosphere, those items which need more than 140 characters. For generalities of dog work, just let me know if the dog handled on a mark or retrieved them all clean, or had to be picked up. 
-trudie


----------



## Granddaddy

EdA said:


> Reliable source (not the judges) says they have 30 dogs in considerable peril, 17 of those 30 are carrying handles
> 
> So far one hour fifteen minute rain delay, they will probably not finish this series today


It would seem pragmatic for the judges to have just listed the dogs in peril if they were going to make reference by stating dogs "...with handles or the "equivalent....". No question then & the handlers would know rather than wonder. I know there have certainly been trials where I thought I was in it to win & got a JAM & others where I thought I was green & got a win or placement. So handlers don't always know. 

But I don't think there is a great deal of consternation "on the internet" about how it's going just the normal comments, cheering & questions. I think in general folks agree with having tests that provide separation.


----------



## birdthrower51

Yay, # 84 Yukon did a very good job. (Is what I was told)


----------



## Granddaddy

truka said:


> Bill, I've wondered and even suggested on a comment on the blog that RN explore avenues like Twitter and Instagram. They've reported numerous times that they will only give "generalities" and not report on dog performance, Twitter is a great venue. "Dog #23, GB smacked it, MB long hunt, RL drilled it clean run #2013NARC" or "*Dog 125, Tuck handled by Trudie Kuka, completed the blind* #NARCMondavi".
> 
> Use the blog to report on test set ups, general atmosphere, those items which need more than 140 characters. For generalities of dog work, just let me know if the dog handled on a mark or retrieved them all clean, or had to be picked up.
> -trudie


I know you want to see that!


----------



## helencalif

Anyone know where they are in the running order at, say, 2o p.m. Wisconsin time? Is the completed test still taking 12-17 minutes (depending on hunts, handles, and pick ups) ?

#84 ran a bit a go per post #234. #86 is Ammo so she must have run by now. Anyone know how she did?


----------



## huntinman

85 handled


----------



## FOM

Dog 85 was running the last I heard via FB


----------



## Mallard Mugger

How did we ever survive childhood? Tweets, Instagrams, etc... Perhaps I was deprived as a kid. The blog is fine. I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful for the individuals bringing it to us. I'm sure they're trying their best. Man, it's like listening to a kid these days when you take whatever electronic device away from them. Relax, chill, and enjoy what you have. I'm with Ed when he says the internet audience is disturbed. If it's that bad, go set up your own Tweeter from on-site.


----------



## huntinman

Mallard Mugger said:


> How did we ever survive childhood? Tweets, Instagrams, etc... Perhaps I was deprived as a kid. The blog is fine. I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful for the individuals bringing it to us. I'm sure they're trying their best. Man, it's like listening to a kid these days when you take whatever electronic device away from them. Relax, chill, and enjoy what you have. I'm with Ed when he says the internet audience is disturbed. *If it's that bad, go set up your own Tweeter from on-site.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Don't think the powers that be would let you get very far with that. Good old cell phone has been the best tool so far.


----------



## DoubleHaul

Mallard Mugger said:


> If it's that bad, go set up your own Tweeter from on-site.


Just don't get caught


----------



## huntinman

JTS said:


> What dog # r they up to now......


Should be Ammo... Or past... Have not heard from them yet.


----------



## huntinman

JTS said:


> let me know when you hear bill I'm keeping deb informed.........


Will do...


----------



## bcarey

Anyone know if #77 Marley ran? Thanks


----------



## FOM

bcarey said:


> Anyone know if #77 Marley ran? Thanks


Handled...


----------



## huntinman

87 handled. No mention of Ammo (86). Hope that's good news, but could be a no bird. Have not heard from them yet.


----------



## helencalif

While we have been glued to the Am, the DOW has fallen over 300 pts.


----------



## huntinman

helencalif said:


> While we have been glued to the Am, the DOW has fallen over 300 pts.


So who does that make starting dog next week?


----------



## Sharon Potter

If you click on the Retriever Callbacks button on the blog, you'll get the info way faster than waiting for the blog to update. Handles and pickups are marked. Looks like #86, Ammo, is clean in the 7th?


----------



## Bayou Magic

Sharon Potter said:


> If you click on the Retriever Callbacks button on the blog, you'll get the info way faster than waiting for the blog to update. Handles and pickups are marked. Looks like #86, Ammo, is clean in the 7th?


Maybe, but could be a no bird.
fp


----------



## Sharon Potter

Bayou Magic said:


> Maybe, but could be a no bird.
> fp


LOL...I'm an optimist.


----------



## huntinman

Ammo got EM all!


----------



## Bayou Magic

huntinman said:


> Ammo got EM all!


Sounds like she did a nice job on a very difficult test. Go Girl!


----------



## RockyDog

huntinman said:


> Ammo got EM all!


Go little brown dog!


----------



## Dos Patos

Way to go Ammo!


----------



## Granddaddy

They've run about 1/2 the field and have at least 7 P/Us. Say they lose 15-20 dogs total, that will leave 30-35 dogs max (probably more like 25-30) to run a water blind tomorrow mid-morning then there's probably enough time to run a 9th series tomorrow afternoon among remaining dogs with good logistics. Hope they have enough time to run another big water series, that's the one element I haven't seen in the several nationals I have run. And since the 4th series is the deciding series in most weekend trials we run, it just seems fitting there should be a big finishing water series in a national.


----------



## Mallard Mugger

DoubleHaul said:


> Just don't get caught


How true..... :grab:


----------



## Golddogs

Granddaddy said:


> They've run about 1/2 the field and have at least 7 P/Us. Say they lose 15-20 dogs total, that will leave 30-35 dogs max (probably more like 25-30) to run a water blind tomorrow mid-morning then there's probably enough time to run a 9th series tomorrow afternoon among remaining dogs with good logistics. Hope they have enough time to run another big water series, that's the one element I haven't seen in the several nationals I have run. And since the 4th series is the deciding series in most weekend trials we run, it just seems fitting there should be a big finishing water series in a national.


If they are running at Parrots for the 9th and 10th, they will have outstanding water to finish up on.


----------



## JusticeDog

Golddogs said:


> If they are running at Parrots for the 9th and 10th, they will have outstanding water to finish up on.


They are.......


----------



## Breck

This is a great pic from the blog.
Mercy on honor calmly eyeballing marks going down, Mr John is watching Mr. Dan, who barely has boot rubber on the mat on the send.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MABWw9gXuH8/UcNUDliy6PI/AAAAAAAANso/lkWCy6mK_Iw/s640/IMG_0535.JPG


----------



## Tim West

I find it wildly ironic that the RAC announced at this National that the rule against layout blinds is now in effect while the grounds committee has placed 30 trees with post hole diggers to improve the tests. I assume it's to hide gunners and provide necessary cover on fields that might not have it. 

Too bad we won't have the time nor the help at our club to hide retired guns in featureless fields.....


----------



## 2tall

At last!!!! All of Taos County has been without cell or internet all day long! Just came back up. So you guys griping about the slow reporting, imagine how bad it has been here today. Like 30 years ago. I am very sorry to see that the only chessie was "dismissed". I agree with a comment above, seems disrespectful to the dog. I'm sure she thought she was doing a great job and having a blast doing it. 

Oh yeah, so what did I do with my day since there was no internet or phone? I took my dogs all to the great training pond I've found! A good time was had by all.


----------



## Granddaddy

Tim West said:


> I find it wildly ironic that the RAC announced at this National that the rule against layout blinds is now in effect while the grounds committee has placed 30 trees with post hole diggers to improve the tests. I assume it's to hide gunners and provide necessary cover on fields that might not have it.
> 
> Too bad we won't have the time nor the help at our club to hide retired guns in featureless fields.....


Tim, that RAC decision wasn't about you............and even though 1/2 or more responses to their feelers kept coming back that we like layout blinds, they ignored us.


----------



## Granddaddy

Golddogs said:


> If they are running at Parrots for the 9th and 10th, they will have outstanding water to finish up on.


Lots of in and outs but hard to get a long swim unless running west (tough for the dogs to see an afternoon bird running west). Also plenty of places for a dog to bale out. Ran an Am 4th there with 17 in & outs to the long bird.........


----------



## BonMallari

Tim West said:


> I find it wildly ironic that the RAC announced at this National that the rule against layout blinds is now in effect while* the grounds committee has placed 30 trees with post hole diggers to improve the tests.* I assume it's to hide gunners and provide necessary cover on fields that might not have it.
> 
> Too bad we won't have the time nor the help at our club to hide retired guns in featureless fields.....


I know that Jack Unbehaun put in the labor along with other members of the grounds committee , but will the trees be removed after the event or were they purchased by the NARC or paid for by the individuals that own the property


----------



## huntinman

Granddaddy said:


> Tim, that RAC decision wasn't about you............*and even though 1/2 or more responses to their feelers kept coming back that we like layout blinds, they ignored us.*


Typical... Sounds like our govt. I know, I know... Take it to Potus...


----------



## pam ingham

Just a quick update - Homer and Holland each got a no-bird.. that was about an hour ago, so they should be back up in another half hour - 45 minutes.


----------



## john fallon

BonMallari said:


> I know that Jack Unbehaun put in the labor along with other members of the grounds committee , *but will the trees be removed after the event or were they purchased by the NARC or paid for by the individuals that own the property*


Just out of curiosity why does it matter?

john


----------



## JusticeDog

BonMallari said:


> I know that Jack Unbehaun put in the labor along with other members of the grounds committee , but will the trees be removed after the event or were they purchased by the NARC or paid for by the individuals that own the property


 since they put them in with post hole diggers, I assumed that the trees were cut down and just placed there temporarily. this is a highly wooded area, so finding some extra trees would be simple.


----------



## Bridget Bodine

Go PAPA Homer ,Love Faith


----------



## Brandoned

Tim West said:


> I find it wildly ironic that the RAC announced at this National that the rule against layout blinds is now in effect while the grounds committee has placed 30 trees with post hole diggers to improve the tests. I assume it's to hide gunners and provide necessary cover on fields that might not have it.
> 
> Too bad we won't have the time nor the help at our club to hide retired guns in featureless fields.....


Tim, I don't think it really mattered how clubs voted on this deal, the higher ups don't like them..

I remember judging a open for Dr Ed a year or so back where we used one. Had we not had one the only place we could have retired a bird would have been behind the only tree around, and that very tree is where 75% of the dogs went. I honestly don't see how you guys in the TX-OK circuits will get by not using them


----------



## Breck

meanwhile back at the ranch
sounds like a bad time to be running right about now. ???


----------



## BonMallari

john fallon said:


> Just out of curiosity why does it matter?
> 
> john


having been in the golf course business, I know what it entails in labor and costs to move or plant trees, its nothing like replanting my mother's rose bushes when I was a kid...from a business standpoint if you were an NARC member (which I am not) and wanted to know why the expense report had a cost for tree displacement

But since Susan has stated that its a heavily wooded area then most likely they were moved from one part of the property to the other..Kudos to Jack and his crew for unerdertaking the work, its very very hard work


----------



## pam ingham

Homer and Holland did it!!!


----------



## Bridget Bodine

pam ingham said:


> Homer and Holland did it!!!


 Yippee!! Good for you Pam! and Dr ED!


----------



## Breck

good going Dr Ed. 
I bet they were sweating it after their no birds and watching the 6 dogs in front of them


----------



## Dos Patos

Keep it rolling guys!


----------



## Gene

Just a quick count in seventh. 10 pick ups or told to pick up , 6 handles that kept playing and honored, 10 picked up all 3 without handle In this series (don't know about big hunts). Looks like a meaty test. My ball park count is half finished with series. A little over 1/3 rd of dogs picked up all 3 without handle. I know some of those ten may have had ugly hunts but seems judges shut those down pretty quickly. Looks like it would be a great set up to run. As of late it seems to be getting harder. 

Gene


----------



## Breck

Blog post sounds like a decent job for Holland!
Hatch & Hatcher comin' up to bat.......
Approaching dusk....


----------



## canuckkiller

*Rac & unpopular new rule - re layout blinds*

I SUBMIT ... LET'S UNITE AND ASK FOR AN OFFICIAL COUNT OF HOW ALL THE CLUBS VOTED. IF IN FACT A MAJORITY OF THE VOTING CLUBS WANTED THE OPTION ... PARTICULARLY UNDER SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES WITH SAFTY, COMMON SENSE & EXPERIENCED JUDGES ACTING IN CASES WHERE F.T. GROUNDS/COVER IS CLEARLY SUB-PAR, THIS "JUDGING BY LEGISLATION" CAN BE REVERSED. AND SHOULD BE FORTHWITH.

ON SUB-PAR GROUNDS, EVEN GROUNDS THAT OFFER ADEQUATE COVER, EXCESSIVE DISTANCE ON MULTIPLE MARKS IN HOT & HUMID WEATHER POSE MUCH MORE OF A THREAT TO A DOG'S WELL BEING THAN THE PRUDENT USE OF LAYOUT BLINDS ... OR THE PRACTICAL & EFFECTIVE USE OF HAVING A THROWER/GUN RETIRE IN PLACE, DISAPEAR IF YOU WILL, BEHIND A NATURAL SWALE/DEPRESSION IN THE TERRAIN, LAYING DOWN BEHIND AN EXISTING DOWNED TREE OR A LARGE STATIONARY LOG, OR NATURAL
COVER/GRASS REPRESENTED BY AN IRREGATION BERM, ETC.

I CALL THIS KIND OF INFUSION OF "MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING" - "JUDGING BY LEGISLATION"! LET'S REMEMBER. WHEN A VOTE COMES UP TO REPLACE RAC REGIONAL MEMBERS. ELECT ... IF THE NEW IDEAS REALLY MEAN A VOTE BY REGIONAL FIELD TRIAL CLUBS & OR PARTICEPANTS ... ELECT ONLY - NOMINATE - INDIVIDUALS WHO WILL DO BOTH - SUPPORT AND PROTECT THE WELL BEING OF OUR RETRIEVERS, BUT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE,
COMMON SENSE AND PARALLEL GOAL OF SETTING FAIR, DEMANDING TESTS THAT MEET THE LANGUAGE OF THE STANDARD: "TESTS SHOULD SIMULATE NEARLY AS POSSIBLE THE CONDITIONS MET IN AN ORDINARY DAY'S SHOOT. AND, AN ORDINARY DAY'S SHOOT IS INTERPRETED AS NATURAL HUNTING CONDITIONS".

Bill Connor


----------



## helencalif

Did #18 run? The blog stops with #1. The Call Backs section reports #12 was a handle. #18 was to follow #12 ... what happened?


----------



## Breck

Dark? 
Probably quit for the day after Dr Goldstein.


----------



## huntinman

Breck said:


> Dark?
> Probably quit for the day after Dr Goldstein.


Just talked to a handler who confirmed that... #12 last dog for the night.


----------



## huntinman

So, if I used all my fingers and toes correctly... 35 dogs ran this test today. 20 of them either handled or picked up! 
11 PUs and 9 Handles. It will be interesting to see if it remains as tough in the morning.


----------



## Ironwood

The judges are where they need to be in if you do the the math. Three series left with 30 dogs likely still playing.
Daniel Shnitka


----------



## B Giese

7a start again tomorrow? Suppose I should probably get a couple hours of shut eye before I make the drive in the morning


----------



## junbe

Sixteen dogs left to run the seventh series. Currently there are thunderstorms, lightning and rain at the test site. Will stay at Spanglers and run a water blind on the same water. The seventh was scheduled to be a quad, but one bird was pulled. The ninth and tenth are scheduled to be quads at Parrotts property. The ninth and tenth will be very tough series if they run Nine A and Ten A.


----------



## BonMallari

to # 15 FC AFC Citori's Accept No Substitute (Brook)...thank you for all that you have given the field trial world, you are a true champion and deserved to make the National Amateur your farewell bow...you are a classy gal who has always giver her all and never quit...


----------



## EdA

Ironwood said:


> The judges are where they need to be in if you do the the math. Three series left with 30 dogs likely still playing.
> Daniel Shnitka


Unless the work is better for the last 15 than it was for the first 35 the field will be closer to 20 than to 30.


----------



## Chad Baker

Big thunder storms this morning. If they get much of a delay they will have trouble finishing a wb.


----------



## junbe

BonMallari said:


> I know that Jack Unbehaun put in the labor along with other members of the grounds committee , but will the trees be removed after the event or were they purchased by the NARC or paid for by the individuals that own the property


I'm not on grounds. Lance Hughey is chair.


----------



## byounglove

The trees are just cut trees that will be pulled out after the trial. This was done at the 2012 Nat Amat also.


----------



## B Giese

I'm still about an hour south yet and it's been raining pretty hard and real dark out. Looking at the radar we should have at least a 6 hour window starting around 9 where it should be rain free, maybe sooner depending how the cells move.


----------



## DEN/TRU/CRU

Northern Minnesota is pulling for HOMER!!! Go get'em Big Yeller Dog!!!


----------



## huntinman

eda said:


> unless the work is better for the last 15 than it was for the first 35 the field will be closer to 20 than to 30.


x2 .


----------



## huntinman

Anyone know how 18 Saber did last night? I thought it was stopped before they ran, but they are starting with 22...

No report on the blog that I can find...


----------



## 2tall

I sure would like to know about Saber as well! I thought he had run while our Internet was out but can find no report?


----------



## TonyRodgz

The callbacks page is more up to date than the blog. It looks like Saber got a handle. 


huntinman said:


> Anyone know how 18 Saber did last night? I thought it was stopped before they ran, but they are starting with 22...
> 
> No report on the blog that I can find...


----------



## huntinman

TonyRodgz said:


> The callbacks page is more up to date than the blog. It looks like Saber got a handle.


Uh oh... They just put that up in the last few minutes. I checked it just a bit ago and nothing was there. Another clean one gets a "ding".


18 was starting dog this morning as we thought last night.


----------



## Tim West

I think that our sport demands transparency. If the RAC votes on a rule change, then the votes should be posted in a role call vote. I agree with you, Mr. Connors.

But...that probably won't happen, so, while the rain is holding up the action, here are some options for hiding retired guns in Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas without layout blinds.....


A) Cut trees down and plant them to hide the guns. And, cut some more down because a dog will hunt trees in an open field and if your trees hiding guns are the only ones there, dogs will go there.

B) Find some gopher holes out there and put up some holding blinds. You can then fool a dog by getting around the rule that you can't put holding blinds out in a field unless it's to cover a hazard. Dogs will now see multiple holding blinds, just like seeing multiple hay bales. Or, just put tests on in a field with multiple hay bales.

c) This winter go find a butt load of tumble weeds and save them for the spring. tumble weeds will hide anything.

d) Sit guys in beach chairs where there butts are an inch off the ground (but not on the ground) and hide them with a ghille blanket. (a dog can still run over them and they will be gosh awful hot).

e) Rent a back hoe and put a gunner in a barrel or a one man pit blind. There are no rules about having gunners BELOW ground.

d) Put gunners in one of those mirror blinds. Might be a problem when a dog approaches it and sees another dog running at them, but they will hide anything.

e) Forget about retiring guns period. Just put the gun stations close enough and throw the birds in a pile. No need for retired guns.....

Anybody got any more solutions?


----------



## blake_mhoona

big camo umbrella? pointed towards the line to cover the gunner


----------



## Granddaddy

blake_mhoona said:


> big camo umbrella? pointed towards the line to cover the gunner


Like a holding blind, such umbrellas stand out like a grain bin on flat, featureless ground, especially with low cover...........dogs take notice & run to them.

Does anyone have the actual wording of the RAC announcement?


----------



## huntinman

More decoys such as large goose decoys in the field for trials and have the gunners retire among the decoys. (hide in plain sight) Use a snow goose spread. If the RAC is going to be irrational, clubs out west have to get creative.


----------



## FOM

Summary list is updated - sorry for the delay, work, life and other things have been making demands on my time...holy crap, the field is thinning...


----------



## Darin Westphal

EdA said:


> Unless the work is better for the last 15 than it was for the first 35 the field will be closer to 20 than to 30.


Question for ya Dr. Ed (or other handlers or anyone who's been close to the line)....having been in the nose bleeds (gallery) yesterday and watching the test, with the go bird flyer being thrown angle back up a hill, it looked like it was pretty difficult to see as it didn't break the horizon and due to the distance, by the time the sound of the guns got to the dog, the bird was already either on the ground or dang close (given the gallery was even further from the guns then the line so it probably appeared/sounded worse there then at the line). Not to mention the big push from the right bird to the left, but from the line, was it as difficult as it appeared/sounded? With the line being much lower then the gallery, you were probably looking up at the go bird so it may have broken the horizon???


----------



## EdA

When I ran the sky was bright but hazy, the flyer definitely broke the horizon but the flyer station was positioned above some small trees or bushes near the shore so at times of the day they were hard to pick out. For some reason this morning 2 or 3 dogs have gotten the middle bird first, only one of those (30) was able to come back and get the flyer clean.


----------



## huntinman

What dog are they on now Doc?


----------



## Ken Barton

Good post Tim!


----------



## DoubleHaul

Tim West said:


> Anybody got any more solutions?


Get the state to use your grounds to deposit a bunch of Eastern Red Cedars that they have cut down?


----------



## EdA

huntinman said:


> What dog are they on now Doc?


Doc dog 33 just completed the test with a handle on the middle bird


----------



## Doug Main

Tim West said:


> Anybody got any more solutions?


Have members of the RAC judge all-age stakes there.


----------



## jeff evans

Tim West said:


> I think that our sport demands transparency. If the RAC votes on a rule change, then the votes should be posted in a role call vote. I agree with you, Mr. Connors.
> 
> But...that probably won't happen, so, while the rain is holding up the action, here are some options for hiding retired guns in Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas without layout blinds.....
> 
> 
> A) Cut trees down and plant them to hide the guns. And, cut some more down because a dog will hunt trees in an open field and if your trees hiding guns are the only ones there, dogs will go there.
> 
> B) Find some gopher holes out there and put up some holding blinds. You can then fool a dog by getting around the rule that you can't put holding blinds out in a field unless it's to cover a hazard. Dogs will now see multiple holding blinds, just like seeing multiple hay bales. Or, just put tests on in a field with multiple hay bales.
> 
> c) This winter go find a butt load of tumble weeds and save them for the spring. tumble weeds will hide anything.
> 
> d) Sit guys in beach chairs where there butts are an inch off the ground (but not on the ground) and hide them with a ghille blanket. (a dog can still run over them and they will be gosh awful hot).
> 
> e) Rent a back hoe and put a gunner in a barrel or a one man pit blind. There are no rules about having gunners BELOW ground.
> 
> d) Put gunners in one of those mirror blinds. Might be a problem when a dog approaches it and sees another dog running at them, but they will hide anything.
> 
> e) Forget about retiring guns period. Just put the gun stations close enough and throw the birds in a pile. No need for retired guns.....
> 
> Anybody got any more solutions?



What about the fake/plastic Christmas trees they sell at Walmart or almost everywhere during the holidays and some Christmas tree stands. Add trees just like they did at the national this year...


----------



## helencalif

10:45 a.m. PST. 12:45 p.m. Wisconsin time. Aren't they about done with Series 7? Or has there been another rain-thunder & lightning - delay?


----------



## David Colwell

Tim......may be we will have to use "cow decoys". They work on geese in western Oklahoma.:mrgreen:


----------



## huntinman

helencalif said:


> 10:45 a.m. PST. 12:45 p.m. Wisconsin time. Aren't they about done with Series 7? Or has there been another rain-thunder & lightning - delay?


They should be close to done. The callbacks page has had results for some of these dogs for almost an hour before the remarks hit the blog. Sometimes longer.

Dog 33 ran an hour ago. Only three dogs after him I think...


----------



## huntinman

Damn... 42 picked up. I was pulling for him. Jason is one of the good guys. Good showing Jason.


----------



## Aaron Homburg

*​Whats the over under? 36?*


----------



## huntinman

Aaron Homburg said:


> *​Whats the over under? 36?*


26. (If that many)


----------



## huntinman

They marked Dealer 43 (Marv Baumer) for a Handle on the Callback page, but not on the blog. Callback page must be wrong. Hope so.


----------



## Justin Allen

The right bird in series 7, why the hell put a bush in line to the mark that the dogs have no chance to get through?


----------



## shawninthesticks

Slider is still clean


----------



## copterdoc

Looks like the callbacks page has crashed.


----------



## huntinman

The test was just as tough today. 14 dogs... 5 pickups 3 handles. 8 of the 14 had to do one or the other.


----------



## junbe

24 back for 8th


----------



## huntinman

Have numbers Jack?


----------



## huntinman

R: made it to the 2nd point *before the gun station leaped into the water* and straight to the bird.

Why did the gun station leap into the water??:shock:


----------



## copterdoc

huntinman said:


> Why did the gun station leap into the water??:shock:


 The gnats are really bad.


----------



## Bayou Magic

Tim West said:


> I think that our sport demands transparency. *If the RAC votes on a rule change, then the votes should be posted in a role call vote.*...


At the 2012 NARC meeting several people (Dr. Ed, me and several others) voiced opposition to the layout blind band. Those words obviously fell on deaf ears. This begs at least 2 questions:

1. Was there additional discussion after the 2012 NARC meeting regarding this issue prior to the vote, and 
2. What was number of votes for and against the proposal?

Based on the NARC meeting open discussion, I did not hear overwhelming support for the band. Are we, particularly the clubs most affected by this rule change, supposed to just accept that it passed without knowing vote totals? One more thing while I'm on the soapbox: We (the clubs affected most) have no problem if other clubs don't use them! This issue, like many others should be the call of the Field Trial Committee charged with executing the trial in accordance with AKC rules.

Good luck to those still playing!

fp


----------



## FOM

Dogs called back: 1, 2, 4, 22, * 23*, 25, 29, 30, * 40*, * 43*, * 51*, 52, 57, 60, 68, * 71*, * 72*, *77*, * 84*, * 85*, 86, * 87*, 98, 104 (24 total - bold indicates a handle in prior series)

Dogs dropped: 6, 9, 10, 12, 18, 26, 27, 28, 31, 33, 36, 42, 47, 59, 64, 70, 73, 81, 90, 92, 99, 106, 111, 115, 117, 119 (26 total)


----------



## BonMallari

Darn it, Saber #18 got dropped


----------



## huntinman

Bayou Magic said:


> At the 2012 NARC meeting several people (Dr. Ed, me and several others) voiced opposition to the layout blind band. Those words obviously fell on deaf ears. This begs at least 2 questions:
> 
> 1. Was there additional discussion after the 2012 NARC meeting regarding this issue prior to the vote, and
> 2. What was number of votes for and against the proposal?
> 
> Based on the NARC meeting open discussion, I did not hear overwhelming support for the band. Are we, particularly the clubs most affected by this rule change, supposed to just accept that it passed without knowing vote totals? One more thing while I'm on the soapbox: We (the clubs affected most) have no problem if other clubs don't use them! This issue, like many others should be the call of the Field Trial Committee charged with executing the trial in accordance with AKC rules.
> 
> Good luck to those still playing!
> 
> fp


I can guarantee you some high price attorney (nothing against attorney's) gave them an opinion on the liability issue after the incident several years back where someone was injured by a dog. 

Any institution is ruled more by fear than by common sense.


----------



## Ken Barton

What incident? Or is it urban legend?


----------



## Chris Moseler

Anyone know what happened with Jet\Powers? The blog mentions a pop? Was that why he was dropped??


----------



## JS

huntinman said:


> Why did the gun station leap into the water??:shock:


To get to the other side? 

JS


----------



## Granddaddy

claimsadj said:


> The right bird in series 7, why the hell put a bush in line to the mark that the dogs have no chance to get through?


To cause dogs to show a mark rather than be lined to the bird.


----------



## PennyRetrievers

Let's go Bill Petrovish and Ammo! This is her year!


----------



## Dave Plesko

huntinman said:


> R: made it to the 2nd point *before the gun station leaped into the water* and straight to the bird.
> 
> Why did the gun station leap into the water??:shock:


To get to the other side?

Maybe their 2 minutes and 30 seconds was up.


----------



## Tim West

Do those cow blinds actually work on geese? Remember, we will have to have two of them so dogs don't just run to the only cow in the field! HA


----------



## pupaloo

Often when I train my cows are in the field-sometimes they are very helpful...nothing like a factor chasing your dog....


----------



## helencalif

BonMallari said:


> Darn it, Saber #18 got dropped


I don't understand why #18 Saber got dropped if they brought back 10 dogs who got dropped. This was Saber's first handle. Not being there, I didn't see it so I don't know how much of a handle it was. Until this handle in the 7th, Saber had done very well and was not hurting or on the bubble.


----------



## BonMallari

helencalif said:


> I don't understand why #18 Saber got dropped if they brought back 10 dogs who got dropped. This was Saber's first handle. Not being there, I didn't see it so I don't know how much of a handle it was. Until this handle in the 7th, Saber had done very well and was not hurting or on the bubble.


thought the same exact thing along with someone that pre National trained with him and his group...

Guess the old verbage that "..not all handles are equal...at the National"...rings true

very disappointed for Chris and Saber, still one heck of a dog


----------



## huntinman

helencalif said:


> I don't understand why #18 Saber got dropped if *they brought back 10 dogs who got dropped. * This was Saber's first handle. Not being there, I didn't see it so I don't know how much of a handle it was. Until this handle in the 7th, Saber had done very well and was not hurting or on the bubble.


Helen, I think you mean 10 dogs who handled?


----------



## copterdoc

The callbacks page is still down.


----------



## huntinman

Don't feel bad, I got dropped after the 8th one time with no handles. But I did have two big hunts on flyer Pheasants.


----------



## Jay Dufour

BB blind for the 8 th ? Two water quads left to run


----------



## huntinman

copterdoc said:


> The callbacks page is still down.


It's working for me. Have you tried re-starting your computer?


----------



## helencalif

huntinman said:


> Helen, I think you mean 10 dogs who handled?


Yes, that is what I meant. I am still numb over seeing that Saber got dropped. Bon is right. Not all handles are equal. A quick handle preferred over a long hunt. A quick handle preferred over multiple whistles/handles. We have not talked to Chris yet, so we don't know what kind of a handle he had in the 7th.


----------



## copterdoc

huntinman said:


> It's working for me. Have you tried re-starting your computer?


According to these folks, http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/2013narccallbacks.theretrievernews.com it isn't me.


----------



## huntinman

PennyRetrievers said:


> Let's go Bill Petrovish and Ammo! This is her year!


X2!!! Go Ammo! My next pup's mama... If she and Grady can make it happen. Hopefully right after this National soon for a pup ready to go home in the fall.


----------



## huntinman

What a front yard! Wow!!


----------



## firehouselabs

Come on Dillion, Plug, Jake, and Ammo. Oh, and Slider. And all the rest too!!!


----------



## labsforme

They're all such good dogs. I would like to see poppa Juice win though. Go Andy and Ivy too.


----------



## BonMallari

am I reading the blog right...435 yard blind.WOW....that would take me a nuked driver to clear the water and probably a mid iron up the hill and hope that I dont hit the porch of the Spanglers house with the approach


----------



## Wade Thurman

Nah, just need to bunt a driver down there then come in high with a cut 8 or 9 to a tight pin location. LOL




BonMallari said:


> am I reading the blog right...435 yard blind.WOW....that would take me a nuked driver to clear the water and probably a mid iron up the hill and hope that I dont hit the porch of the Spanglers house with the approach


----------



## Tim West

This does not appear to be a gimmee water blind for sure!


----------



## Golddogs

huntinman said:


> View attachment 13732
> 
> What a front yard! Wow!!


And 2 of the nicest people you will ever meet. Plan on drinking a beer with Randy next month on the deck. Amazing what a guy can do with a dozer and excavator.


----------



## Golddogs

BonMallari said:


> am I reading the blog right...435 yard blind.WOW....that would take me a nuked driver to clear the water and probably a mid iron up the hill and hope that I dont hit the porch of the Spanglers house with the approach



Hit a nice draw towards the oaks and a 7 iron in for a 2 putt par. NP.


----------



## huntinman

Look like 300+ yards of land... It the rest that's water that may be the tricky part. With all that land under their feet for so long... Some of them might want to keep land under their feet. If the wind was blowing the other way, it would be even tougher...


----------



## huntinman

Golddogs said:


> And 2 of the nicest people you will ever meet. Plan on drinking a beer with Randy next month on the deck. *Amazing what a guy can do with a dozer and excavator*.



Yes... And their home is beautiful too from the photos. A real slice of heaven... And extremely generous to have the crowd on their property.


----------



## Buzz

huntinman said:


> Yes... And their home is beautiful too from the photos. A real slice of heaven... And extremely generous to have the crowd on their property.



Sure wish I was trying that blind instead of sitting and following along in my office.


----------



## Justin Allen

Catching those two skinny pieces of water on that blind will be hell. Good luck to all


----------



## Golddogs

huntinman said:


> Yes... And their *home *is beautiful too from the photos. A real slice of heaven... And extremely generous to have the crowd on their property.


Just finished it in time for the National. A month or so ago they were living in the 5th wheel in the not so shabby pole building hoping it would stop raining long enough to get finished.


----------



## Tim West

Here is what we will be using to hide retired guns this fall.....


----------



## huntinman

Golddogs said:


> Just finished it in time for the National. A month or so ago they were living in the 5th wheel in the not so shabby pole building hoping it would stop raining long enough to get finished.


What the blog has been calling their "barn", I could live in...


----------



## huntinman

One dog on the callback page is shown to be clean with no handles... But that dog did have a handle in an earlier series. His H vanished...

Lainee has it of course on her thread...


----------



## kjrice

I wouldn't let my guard down at the end with the bird against that barrier.


----------



## Granddaddy

huntinman said:


> Don't feel bad, I got dropped after the 8th one time with no handles. But I did have two big hunts on flyer Pheasants.


I've been dropped after the 7th & was clean, no big hunts, 2-3 small hunts & good blinds, dropped after the 8th and very clean except for an 8th series one whistle handle and carried from a 3rd series handle (otherwise near-perfect) to be a finalist. That's why I commented earlier about the handle "or equivalent". As a handler you can't take anything for granted. One difference it seems in this nat'l is that the judges seem to have been in control from the 1st series and were not faced with dropping clean dogs to get to get the numbers reasonable for a 9th & 10th series.


----------



## huntinman

Granddaddy said:


> I've been dropped after the 7th & was clean, no big hunts, 2-3 small hunts & good blinds, dropped after the 8th and very clean except for an 8th series one whistle handle and carried from a 3rd series handle (otherwise near-perfect) to be a finalist. That's why I commented earlier about the handle "or equivalent". As a handler you can't take anything for granted. One difference it seems in this nat'l is that the judges seem to have been in control from the 1st series and were not faced with dropping clean dogs to get to get the numbers reasonable for a 9th & 10th series.


Good post...


----------



## Granddaddy

huntinman said:


> Look like 300+ yards of land... It the rest that's water that may be the tricky part. With all that land under their feet for so long... Some of them might want to keep land under their feet. If the wind was blowing the other way, it would be even tougher...


I think I'd allow my dog to get in a little fat, not be too fine up front, then correct the line thereafter. Given that distance to the water, even 10-20 ft fat will still look good on paper as an initial line then handle once the dog is in the water. I'd want my dog to be thinking water from the line & wouldn't want it to be deciding as it ran down the hill.


----------



## huntinman

Granddaddy said:


> I think I'd allow my dog to get in a little fat, not be too fine up front, then correct the line thereafter. Given that distance to the water, even 10-20 ft fat will still look good on paper as an initial line then handle once the dog is in the water. I'd want my dog to be thinking water from the line & wouldn't want it to be deciding as it ran down the hill.


That's dang good advice... I know a handler or two that might have like to have heard that before they went to the line...


----------



## Paul Brown

Does anyone know why #98, Sugar, handled by Mark Medford was dismissed?


----------



## Lynn Moore

Looks like they only have a couple more dogs to run. Two pickups 25 and 43. Sugar was a no go.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Granddaddy

No time to give the judges any reason to drop you. Was trying to remember last year, I think our last blind was a very challenging water blind in the 6th, thereafter a tough land quad in the 7th, I don't remember the 8th at all (if anyone recalls refresh my memory), the 9th was a tough water series with a big up & out middle bird and the 10th a nice water triple with a very long memory bird retired & two standout flyers.


----------



## Paul Brown

Thanks Lynn


----------



## aabraham

David the 8th last year was a little land blind at the buffalo ranch through some trees kinda on a slope.


----------



## Granddaddy

aabraham said:


> David the 8th last year was a little land blind at the buffalo ranch through some trees kinda on a slope.


I remember now, wasn't much to it. Think they were just trying to get it done. Thanks......


----------



## Granddaddy

JTS said:


> last year the 8th was a land blind (side hill slope right to left).
> 
> 9th was water triple with honor, middle bird was flyer, 2 retired
> 
> 10th was water triple with 2 flyers, 1 retired


Yep, 9th series middle flyer retired, left bird was the go bird, then short right retired with bird thrown in the water then the long middle flyer retired behind a mound. Gave several dogs fits......Stella had a full head of steam headed to the flyer & drove 10-15 yds past the AOF, then stopped reversed and pick it up clean - scared me to death she was headed to the woods another 100+ yds up the hill (like a couple of others had done).


----------



## Shawn S.

I threw that retired flyer in the ninth last year. Our station was buttoned up pretty tight so all we could here were whistles and dogs rolling by. It was hotter that Haiti's in that blind with 3 of us elbow to elbow.


----------



## Bridget Bodine

Whats going on at the trial anyone know? They gonna finish tonite? Did they lose anyone?


----------



## huntinman

Bridget Bodine said:


> Whats going on at the trial anyone know? They gonna finish tonite? Did they lose anyone?


Done with 8th series water blind. Waiting on callbacks...


----------



## Granddaddy

Shawn S. said:


> I threw that retired flyer in the ninth last year. Our station was buttoned up pretty tight so all we could here were whistles and dogs rolling by. It was hotter that Haiti's in that blind with 3 of us elbow to elbow.


I just remember getting a nice long flyer, scary long........and thanks for your involvement. We had a great experience.


----------



## SteelGirl_1187

Yep, waiting on callbacks. I don't want to comment on anyone's work, but the blind got answers for certain. Once you got through the water there was still a long way to go with many factors to deal with. Not that I have a ton of National experience, but today running my 28th National series I can say there has not been ONE easy bird. 

15 are back for the 9th:

1-2-4-22-23-29-30-40-57-68-71-72-77-85-87


----------



## Bridget Bodine

Wish they could have commented on work... :-( Good luck Lauren!


----------



## pam ingham

Thanks, Lauren and good luck - not that you and Slider need luck with all that talent!!


----------



## Paul Brown

Whoop! For Slider.


----------



## outdoordave

Is Dr. Aycock and Holland out?


----------



## huntinman

outdoordave said:


> Is Dr. Aycock and Holland out?


Yes. .


----------



## huntinman

Good luck to those still playing.

Good run to those just dropped.


----------



## huntinman

8 dogs back with no handle... 7 with a handle... For what that's worth. One of those 15 is going to be the 2013 National Amateur Retriever Champion. Sounds good doesn't it?


----------



## huntinman

SteelGirl_1187 said:


> Yep, waiting on callbacks. I don't want to comment on anyone's work, but the blind got answers for certain. Once you got through the water there was still a long way to go with many factors to deal with. Not that I have a ton of National experience, but today running my *28th National series* I can say there has not been ONE easy bird.
> 
> 15 are back for the 9th:
> 
> 1-2-4-22-23-29-30-40-57-68-71-72-77-85-87



Impressive... And if I'm not mistaken, those are consecutive series... Your handling skills are obvious. 

Inquiring minds want to know if you have improved at driving 4 wheelers with trailers behind them through field trial parking lots?;-)

Good luck in the last two series.


----------



## PennyRetrievers

Damn. Ammo is out too. Was really pulling for her.


----------



## huntinman

PennyRetrievers said:


> Damn. Ammo is out too. Was really pulling for her.


Doesn't matter how good your previous work is if you botch up the current series. Just spoke with them on the phone and they were not surprised by the callbacks. They knew that the 8th was not up to the level of work that they expect of themselves. She will be back. Great run for the 50 pound brown dog! Good job Bill and Micki!!


----------



## dogcommand

Thanks for the update Lauren, the official site has been soooooo slow. So glad to see that you are still playing. Continued success to you and Slider!


----------



## huntinman

huntinman said:


> Yes. .


They had a great run... My pickem is now shot...


----------



## 2tall

So Ammo, Traveler and Holland are gone, done, finito?????


----------



## shawninthesticks

SteelGirl_1187 said:


> Yep, waiting on callbacks. I don't want to comment on anyone's work, but the blind got answers for certain. Once you got through the water there was still a long way to go with many factors to deal with. Not that I have a ton of National experience, but today running my 28th National series I can say there has not been ONE easy bird.
> 
> 15 are back for the 9th:
> 
> 1-2-4-22-23-29-*30*-40-57-68-71-72-77-85-87



Good luck !


----------



## Dos Patos

Lets go Team Slider!


----------



## huntinman

2tall said:


> So Ammo, Traveler and Holland are gone, done, finito?????


Unfortunately...


----------



## Pam Spears

Sounds like everyone left deserves to be there. Good luck tomorrow!


----------



## smillerdvm

Good luck and congratulations to all remaining dogs and handlers.
Lauren Hayes and Slider have now run 28 National Series in their careers and been called back all 28 times VERY IMPRESSIVE!!

It really warms my heart to hear that Susie Rich and Pride are doing well. You girls stay strong for the last two series!!


----------



## EdA

smillerdvm said:


> Good luck and congratulations to all remaining dogs and handlers.
> Lauren Hayes and Slider have now run 28 National Series in their careers and been called back all 28 times VERY IMPRESSIVE!!
> 
> It really warms my heart to hear that Susie Rich and Pride are doing well. You girls stay strong for the last two series!!


Susie Ritch is very ill, Pride is being ably handled by Roy Morejon


----------



## smillerdvm

EdA said:


> Susie Ritch is very ill, Pride is being ably handled by Roy Morejon


I knew Susie was having health issues, but saw her listed as the handler.
Good luck to Roy, I'm sure their good run is of great comfort to Susie


----------



## blake_mhoona

really disappointed about ammo. i guess another yellow or black will be named NAFC. i figured with no handles through 7 and no big hunts that a bad blind would just put on her even playing ground with the dogs that had handled. the blog said her blind required a little convincing to get in the water but still thought she'd be good


----------



## Tim West

Ed, sorry to hear that you got dropped. You and Holland had a good run going..... Sorry to see Ammo go also.


----------



## smillerdvm

blake_mhoona said:


> really disappointed about ammo. i guess another yellow or black will be named NAFC. i figured with no handles through 7 and no big hunts that a bad blind would just put on her even playing ground with the dogs that had handled. the blog said her blind required a little convincing to get in the water but still thought she'd be good


I am also a big fan of Ammo, and believe she is a great animal. I'm sure every dog entered is also a great animal. They wouldn't be here if they weren't great animals. They are all great animals that run AA stakes. This is the National Amateur Championship; therefore the best of the best
Are you at the trial, and did you see the blind in question? Did you see all of the other blinds?
Have you seen every dog run every series? Are you able to give an objective assessment of Ammo's work in relation to the work of all other dogs still running. 
Are you aware of the fact that just because a dog doesn't have a handle that does not mean they did well. It is said that a quick handle can be preferable to a big hunt.
Finally are you a FT judge and if so how many points do you have?
If you are qualified then why don't you put your name in the hat and offer your services to judge future trials.
Whether you are or are not qualified, why don't you show a little class and not criticize judges from behind your keyboard. 
Just like the dogs at this National, these judges are also the best of the best. They have given up at least two weeks of their life to give back to a sport that they love. They deserve to not be questioned by some backseat driver, regardless of your qualifications


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

Somebody pass the popcorn, the peanuts are roasting 

/Paul


----------



## Justin Allen

Ding ding. Get over it dude.


smillerdvm said:


> I am also a big fan of Ammo, and believe she is a great animal. I'm sure every dog entered is also a great animal. They wouldn't be here if they weren't great animals. They are all great animals that run AA stakes. This is the National Amateur Championship; therefore the best of the best
> Are you at the trial, and did you see the blind in question? Did you see all of the other blinds?
> Have you seen every dog run every series? Are you able to give an objective assessment of Ammo's work in relation to the work of all other dogs still running.
> Are you aware of the fact that just because a dog doesn't have a handle that does not mean they did well. It is said that a quick handle can be preferable to a big hunt.
> Finally are you a FT judge and if so how many points do you have?
> If you are qualified then why don't you put your name in the hat and offer your services to judge future trials.
> Whether you are or are not qualified, why don't you show a little class and not criticize judges from behind your keyboard.
> Just like the dogs at this National, these judges are also the best of the best. They have given up at least two weeks of their life to give back to a sport that they love. They deserve to not be questioned by some backseat driver, regardless of your qualifications


----------



## blake_mhoona

smillerdvm said:


> I am also a big fan of Ammo, and believe she is a great animal. I'm sure every dog entered is also a great animal. They wouldn't be here if they weren't great animals. They are all great animals that run AA stakes. This is the National Amateur Championship; therefore the best of the best
> Are you at the trial, and did you see the blind in question? Did you see all of the other blinds?
> Have you seen every dog run every series? Are you able to give an objective assessment of Ammo's work in relation to the work of all other dogs still running.
> Are you aware of the fact that just because a dog doesn't have a handle that does not mean they did well. It is said that a quick handle can be preferable to a big hunt.
> Finally are you a FT judge and if so how many points do you have?
> If you are qualified then why don't you put your name in the hat and offer your services to judge future trials.
> Whether you are or are not qualified, why don't you show a little class and not criticize judges from behind your keyboard.
> Just like the dogs at this National, these judges are also the best of the best. They have given up at least two weeks of their life to give back to a sport that they love. They deserve to not be questioned by some backseat driver, regardless of your qualifications


wow talk about blowing a comment out of proportion. first off the yellow and black comment was tongue in cheek from a choco owner. second off i am a novice to trials and was simply asking a question as to why and how the judging works. being that the blog said she pinned just about all the marks with no big hunts i was simply raising a question is a few more whistles to get a dog in the water on a blind taken into account more than marking? seems like every other comment on judging is that marking is of primary importance so i was asking for more experienced people's opinion. 

now i see why so few people get into the trialing game. people like you are quick to demean and tear people down rather than explain and help. luckily for me and my dog im willing to ignore people like you so that we can enjoy the experience. 

a while back i was attacked on this board and someone came to my defense and then was attacked himself. he swore off this board but i stayed because being so inexperienced i thought it was a valuable tool. i see now that i was wrong.


----------



## Justin Allen

My advice is to toughen up and get over it. Its not like you just lost your dog in the 8th series of the national am. Fwiw this post was made as a joke. What a blowup over a simple post, lol. I think it's reading pretty deep into it that Blake was criticizing the judges.


blake_mhoona said:


> wow talk about blowing a comment out of proportion. first off the yellow and black comment was tongue in cheek from a choco owner. second off i am a novice to trials and was simply asking a question as to why and how the judging works. being that the blog said she pinned just about all the marks with no big hunts i was simply raising a question is a few more whistles to get a dog in the water on a blind taken into account more than marking? seems like every other comment on judging is that marking is of primary importance so i was asking for more experienced people's opinion.
> 
> now i see why so few people get into the trialing game. people like you are quick to demean and tear people down rather than explain and help. luckily for me and my dog im willing to ignore people like you so that we can enjoy the experience.
> 
> a while back i was attacked on this board and someone came to my defense and then was attacked himself. he swore off this board but i stayed because being so inexperienced i thought it was a valuable tool. i see now that i was wrong.


----------



## junbe

It is currently raining at the site of the National Amateur. The ninth is a very difficult marking test. The tenth will be water marks with multiple flyers. The winner will win it on their marking ability. The judges have been very generous with callbacks throughout the trial. Everybody has been given a very fair chance to compete and show their talent.


----------



## Rainmaker

Jack, it has looked like a very well run trial with incredible grounds, many people putting in tons of time and effort, battling weather and bugs, to showcase the best amateur teams running. I think everyone there should be very proud to have qualified and ran, no matter when they went out. It's been a real treat to see some of these teams in person and, good luck or bad, dogs being dogs aside, they all have some shining moments to remember. The judges have gotten answers in every series, there are some pretty incredible dogs out there, holy smokes, when they do one of those tests, it's a thing of beauty, when a favorite wipes out, it's tough to see. Hope the weather cooperates today, good luck to the remaining contestants!


----------



## Travis Schneider

smillerdvm said:


> I am also a big fan of Ammo, and believe she is a great animal. I'm sure every dog entered is also a great animal. They wouldn't be here if they weren't great animals. They are all great animals that run AA stakes. This is the National Amateur Championship; therefore the best of the best
> Are you at the trial, and did you see the blind in question? Did you see all of the other blinds?
> Have you seen every dog run every series? Are you able to give an objective assessment of Ammo's work in relation to the work of all other dogs still running.
> Are you aware of the fact that just because a dog doesn't have a handle that does not mean they did well. It is said that a quick handle can be preferable to a big hunt.
> Finally are you a FT judge and if so how many points do you have?
> If you are qualified then why don't you put your name in the hat and offer your services to judge future trials.
> Whether you are or are not qualified, why don't you show a little class and not criticize judges from behind your keyboard.
> Just like the dogs at this National, these judges are also the best of the best. They have given up at least two weeks of their life to give back to a sport that they love. They deserve to not be questioned by some backseat driver, regardless of your qualifications


You sound like you could use a whiskey.

Take a step back...breathe in deep...it's all going to be ok. Life isn't near as fun when you're serious all of the time.


----------



## Wade Thurman

Can anyone post a before and after google picture of the parrott ponds now that we have gotten all this rain?

Thanks


----------



## huntinman

huntinman said:


> Doesn't matter how good your previous work is if you botch up the current series. Just spoke with them on the phone and they were not surprised by the callbacks. They knew that the 8th was not up to the level of work that they expect of themselves. She will be back. Great run for the 50 pound brown dog! Good job Bill and Micki!!


I quoted my own post to show that Ammo's owners knew what to expect and were not surprised... Disappointed? Yes. But at their own performance in the 8th.

No use in debating the callbacks. The performance was not up to par and she got dropped. Along with a handful of other very good dogs. Nothing to be ashamed of. Only one dog is going to win this thing. 

Lets keep it positive and focused on the event at hand please.


----------



## zipmarc

smillerdvm said:


> I am also a big fan of Ammo, and believe she is a great animal. I'm sure every dog entered is also a great animal. They wouldn't be here if they weren't great animals. They are all great animals that run AA stakes. This is the National Amateur Championship; therefore the best of the best
> Are you at the trial, and did you see the blind in question? Did you see all of the other blinds?
> Have you seen every dog run every series? Are you able to give an objective assessment of Ammo's work in relation to the work of all other dogs still running.
> Are you aware of the fact that just because a dog doesn't have a handle that does not mean they did well. It is said that a quick handle can be preferable to a big hunt.
> Finally are you a FT judge and if so how many points do you have?
> If you are qualified then why don't you put your name in the hat and offer your services to judge future trials.
> Whether you are or are not qualified, why don't you show a little class and not criticize judges from behind your keyboard.
> Just like the dogs at this National, these judges are also the best of the best. They have given up at least two weeks of their life to give back to a sport that they love. They deserve to not be questioned by some backseat driver, regardless of your qualifications


What kind of backseat driving is this? Ask yourself those same questions and have another whiskey.


----------



## jeff t.

FOM said:


> since we aren't on the line listening and observing, you just have to live with the fact that the dog is out...


This pretty much sums it up


----------



## Brad B

jeff t. said:


> This pretty much sums it up


No kidding! Let it go already.

Anyone know why the pick-em is behind on updating? Not that I'll win, that blind took a toll on some of my picks.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Test dog ran in the rain. First dog to run,#2 handled. I am having trouble finding out if its a triple or what. #57 about to run.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## 2tall

Thank you Lynn! I have my fingers crossed and breath held for Juice! I hope he smashes it!


----------



## huntinman

Tim West said:


> Ed, sorry to hear that you got dropped. You and Holland had a good run going....


X2. Nice run Dr. Ed!


----------



## B Giese

Anybody know if they're selling hats or shirts? Didn't see anything yesterday and wouldn't mind picking up a hat. Thought I saw something on here awhile back for it but I'll be damned if I can find it again.


----------



## txrancher

smillerdvm said:


> I am also a big fan of Ammo, and believe she is a great animal. I'm sure every dog entered is also a great animal. They wouldn't be here if they weren't great animals. They are all great animals that run AA stakes. This is the National Amateur Championship; therefore the best of the best
> Are you at the trial, and did you see the blind in question? Did you see all of the other blinds?
> Have you seen every dog run every series? Are you able to give an objective assessment of Ammo's work in relation to the work of all other dogs still running.
> Are you aware of the fact that just because a dog doesn't have a handle that does not mean they did well. It is said that a quick handle can be preferable to a big hunt.
> Finally are you a FT judge and if so how many points do you have?
> If you are qualified then why don't you put your name in the hat and offer your services to judge future trials.
> Whether you are or are not qualified, why don't you show a little class and not criticize judges from behind your keyboard.
> Just like the dogs at this National, these judges are also the best of the best. They have given up at least two weeks of their life to give back to a sport that they love. They deserve to not be questioned by some backseat driver, regardless of your qualifications


I didn't realize you needed permission to speak on RTF. I do feel that you need to give someone an apology. When people come down like you did from behind their keyboard they are telling something to all who read it about themselves! I so glad I got a little insight on you!


----------



## jeff t.

B Giese said:


> Anybody know if they're selling hats or shirts? Didn't see anything yesterday and wouldn't mind picking up a hat. Thought I saw something on here awhile back for it but I'll be damned if I can find it again.



www.retrieveroutfitter.com


----------



## Rainmaker

It's a quad, mixed bag, first two dogs have handled.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Quick quad. First two handled.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## dogcommand

Thanks Lynn...keep it coming if you can.


----------



## Sue Kiefer

Good Luck to the remaining teams.
Be safe with the storms coming through.
Sue


----------



## Lynn Moore

We are not there anymore, neither is Tellus.just trying to find out info, primarily from Facebook. Kim is there.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Sharon van der Lee

Wonder if this storm is part of the same that hit Calgary on Thursday. Entire downtown and Stampede grounds under water. 100,000 people evacuated.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Big quad and only four dogs have run. 22 double handled, first two handled. Maybe they will call it after this.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## kjrice

junbe said:


> It is currently raining at the site of the National Amateur. The ninth is a very difficult marking test. The tenth will be water marks with multiple flyers. The winner will win it on their marking ability. The judges have been *very generous with callbacks throughout the trial*. *Everybody has been given a very fair chance to compete and show their talent.*


Worth repeating...


----------



## EdA

They have to do 10 series even if 10 is a single, some heavy hitters yet to run. This is when the eventual winner takes charge


----------



## Sharon Potter

huntinman said:


> X2. Nice run Dr. Ed!


X3. Ginny and I had our fingers crossed for you!


Disclaimer: I'm not a field trialer, and I was only there for one day. But from my perspective, it sounds like the judges have put together some really great tests that have done exactly what they are supposed to do: Sort the dogs out. 

The tests have looked tough but fair, and have given dog/handler teams a chance to show their skills and talent at the very top level...and have left no doubt as to the level of work expected. My hat is off to the judges and handlers/dogs and crew. The best dog this week will be the winner, and will have earned every bit of it.


----------



## EdA

huntinman said:


> X2. Nice run Dr. Ed!


Thank you, I was very disappointed to have such a poor blind, it started bumpy and I could never get it smoothed out. He seemed to be fascinated with the decoy sluice, the full body decoys, and all the drag back scent from 7 they had to run through but be made me proud for most of the week. 

It was a great experience. With his no bird in 7 he was in a holding blind for almost 2 hours Thursday and he was as relaxed as he could be and then had a beautiful set of marks in which 60% of the field picked up or handled, it was my proudest moment of the week.

We will be back next year given good health and fortune for both of us. 

Thanks to all if my RTF friends for your support via the forum, PMs, and text messages. Holland has a very pretty and talented girlfriend waiting for him so even though I am disappointed he is not.


----------



## 2tall

JTS, what does "we are protecting our winner" mean? I get all the rest and understand how it applies to judging a handle vs hunt, but not that part.


----------



## EdA

2tall said:


> JTS, what does "we are protecting our winner" mean? I get all the rest and understand how it applies to judging a handle vs hunt, but not that part.


I think he was being facetious, protecting your winner is not putting on a bone crusher quad in the ninth, they are trying to find their winner in 9 and 10.


----------



## Jim Harvey

Wonderful job, Dr. Ed, you are possibly RTF's greatest asset in many ways.

I heard from a number of folks that you and Holland were really dialed in.


----------



## Brad B

What does it mean, "We are protecting our winner...". Does that mean they already know and are tweaking the test to try and make sure that dog stays on top? Or does it mean they already know or have a good idea and they are just protecting that information?


----------



## 2tall

Brad, see Dr. Ed's reply above. I get that now! (if I can you can). Thanks for the explanation, and also for the gracious post about yours and Holland's run. I'm sure you will be ready to roll next June.


----------



## Brad B

Make sense, especially now that I just read the description of the series. Brutal! Thanks Dr. Ed for adding that point of view as well. Sorry Holland couldn't hang in there, better luck next time.


----------



## zipmarc

EdA said:


> Thank you, I was very disappointed to have such a poor blind, it started bumpy and I could never get it smoothed out. He seemed to be fascinated with the decoy sluice, the full body decoys, and all the drag back scent from 7 they had to run through but be made me proud for most of the week.
> 
> It was a great experience. With his no bird in 7 he was in a holding blind for almost 2 hours Thursday and he was as relaxed as he could be and then had a beautiful set of marks in which 60% of the field picked up or handled, it was my proudest moment of the week.
> 
> We will be back next year given good health and fortune for both of us.
> 
> Thanks to all if my RTF friends for your support via the forum, PMs, and text messages. Holland has a very pretty and talented girlfriend waiting for him so even though I am disappointed he is not.


I think good sportsmanship just got raised another bar.


----------



## Tim West

If you believe that Al Wilson is protecting his winner you could surmise that the dog he's protecting is Ali since he handled in the first and from the accounts of the blog has been very good since. However, Al is a good friend of mine and I know he's being facetious as he would never do that. This test shows they are protecting nothing, but if there was ever a National where a handle could win, this might be it. The pedal has been to the metal the whole time and if the 10th is anywhere as hard as the 9th, there could certainly be handled attached to all dogs at the end of it. The winner will be found, handle or not and be a worthy champion.


----------



## Rainmaker

You and Holland ran a great trial, Dr. Ed, and Holland gives lie to that old hyped up FT dog myth, among others. Many more to come for both of you!


----------



## tshuntin

EdA said:


> They have to do 10 series even if 10 is a single, some heavy hitters yet to run. This is when the eventual winner takes charge


Great Job Ed and Holland. We were sure cheering for you. I am sure you two will be back!


----------



## pupaloo

I have great respect for participants in Amateur events. Doing something you love to do well enough to be able to compete at its highest level is a superb accomplishment. I don't care who trained the dog, or any of that stuff people always debate. To stand on that line facing any of these tests and feel good about the work you and your dog did is what it should be about.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Very good post Tim! Just heard that Bobby and Ali did very well on the ninth. 29 and 30 okay from a very knowledgable source.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## cakaiser

Amazing. 
May the cream rise to the top. May the best dog, over all 10 series...win!


----------



## Lynn Moore

Handle for Juice #57.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Jay Dufour

Come on strong Ali and Bobby !!


----------



## helencalif

re: Al Wilson's quote on the Ret News blog... I hope the news team misheard and misquoted him. It seems most unusual that before the 9th starts a judge would publicly state that they are protecting their winner. It seems also unusual that a judge would publicly state before the 9th started don't be surprised if a handle wins.

Going into the 9th, out of the 15 dogs to run there were 7vdogs who had handled. Right? There were 8 dogs who had not handled. Right? 

If Al said what it is being reported he said, the winner (already chosen?) who was being "protected" was one of those 6 dogs who had handled. Two more series to run; anything can happen in those two series. One of the judges says they are protecting the winner and don't be surprised if it has a handle. Al, what were you thinking? With 2 series yet to run, wasn't that comment a bit premature?


----------



## JusticeDog

helencalif said:


> re: Al Wilson's quote on the Ret News blog... I hope the news team misheard and misquoted him. It seems most unusual that before the 9th starts a judge would publicly state that they are protecting their winner. It seems also unusual that a judge would publicly state before the 9th started don't be surprised if a handle wins.
> 
> Going into the 9th, out of the 15 dogs to run there were 7vdogs who had handled. Right? There were 8 dogs who had not handled. Right?
> 
> If Al said what it is being reported he said, the winner (already chosen?) who was being "protected" was one of those 6 dogs who had handled. Two more series to run; anything can happen in those two series. One of the judges says they are protecting the winner and don't be surprised if it has a handle. Al, what were you thinking? With 2 series yet to run, wasn't that comment a bit premature?


see Ed's post.


----------



## JS

helencalif said:


> re: Al Wilson's quote on the Ret News blog... I hope the news team misheard and misquoted him. It seems most unusual that before the 9th starts a judge would publicly state that they are protecting their winner. It seems also unusual that a judge would publicly state before the 9th started don't be surprised if a handle wins.
> 
> Going into the 9th, out of the 15 dogs to run there were 7vdogs who had handled. Right? There were 8 dogs who had not handled. Right?
> 
> If Al said what it is being reported he said, the winner (already chosen?) who was being "protected" was one of those 6 dogs who had handled. Two more series to run; anything can happen in those two series. One of the judges says they are protecting the winner and don't be surprised if it has a handle. Al, what were you thinking? With 2 series yet to run, wasn't that comment a bit premature?


C'mon, Helen. A lot of "ifs" in that post.


JS


----------



## Wade Thurman

can someone who is there tells us if the dogs go out of sight on the middle left hand bird. thanks


----------



## Lynn Moore

Handle for Tony, dog 68 and Stracka #71.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## helencalif

Ok, Ok. I missed seeing Ed's short post. I can see it could be a facetious comment by Al. I was wondering how a dog can be protected with a tough quad in the 9th. I can understand the handle statement. About half going into the 9th had handles and the chance that there will be some handles in the 9th (and 10th) means that the winner could very well have a handle.

Lynn has posted two more dogs with handles in the 9th. Are we up to 5 handles in the 9th as of #71 ? Stracka's handle in the 9th was his second, right? It's been reported #22 had a double handle in the 9th, right?

At this point, it looks like only 4 dogs are now clean and that's how it will be going into the 10th since the remaining dogs yet to run the 9th have had handles previously. Right?

If they toss out the double handles, fewer than 15 will be going to the 10th. Looks like we may not have a lot of finalists this year.

Helen


----------



## Dave Farrar

zipmarc said:


> I think good sportsmanship just got raised another bar.


Nailed it!


----------



## JusticeDog

helencalif said:


> Ok, Ok. I missed seeing Ed's short post. I can see it could be a facetious comment by Al. I was wondering how a dog can be protected with a tough quad in the 9th. I can understand the handle statement. About half going into the 9th had handles and the chance that there will be some handles in the 9th (and 10th) means that the winner could very well have a handle.


It's like the old saying about things said in gest!


----------



## Lynn Moore

Bullet #72 second handle

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## kjrice

helencalif said:


> re: Al Wilson's quote on the Ret News blog... I hope the news team misheard and misquoted him. It seems most unusual that before the 9th starts a judge would publicly state that they are protecting their winner. It seems also unusual that a judge would publicly state before the 9th started don't be surprised if a handle wins.
> 
> Going into the 9th, out of the 15 dogs to run there were 7vdogs who had handled. Right? There were 8 dogs who had not handled. Right?
> 
> If Al said what it is being reported he said, the winner (already chosen?) who was being "protected" was one of those 6 dogs who had handled. Two more series to run; anything can happen in those two series. One of the judges says they are protecting the winner and don't be surprised if it has a handle. Al, what were you thinking? With 2 series yet to run, wasn't that comment a bit premature?


Not only is Al my good friend, he is my training partner and mentor. I am hear to tell you it is tongue in cheek. He has joked around with that line before in a regular FT while setting up a ball-busting punch bird in the fourth series. If you've ever trained, run under or been around him, you will understand that he is a man of integrity that likes to have fun.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Eleven dogs have run, seven handles so far. Some their second.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Lynn Moore

Very true about Al. Always a chuckle and twinkle in his eye.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## BonMallari

kjrice said:


> Not only is Al my good friend, he is my training partner and mentor. I am hear to tell you it is tongue in cheek. He has joked around with that line before in a regular FT while setting up a ball-busting punch bird in the fourth series. If you've ever trained, run under or been around him, you will understand that he is a man integrity that likes to have fun.


I will second what Kevin said...no one likes to tell a joke more than Al Wilson, and he has a whole slew of them ..I did not see the alleged quote, but the reported did him and the trial a disservice by reporting an obvious sarcastic and facetious comment

Think for a second people....lets enjoy the drama of the last two series and not add any useless baseless info...


----------



## zipmarc

kjrice said:


> Not only is Al my good friend, he is my training partner and mentor. I am hear to tell you it is tongue in cheek. He has joked around with that line before in a regular FT while setting up a ball-busting punch bird in the fourth series. If you've ever trained, run under or been around him, you will understand that he is a man integrity that likes to have fun.


Not to worry - if there is no clean dog, he's safe to say that, jest or not.


----------



## txrancher

*"They are protecting their winner"*

When I read it , I thought they(he) was saying that the last 2 series were designed to protect the integrity of the dog that will become NAFC 2013. To me that shows the passion, knowledge and integrity of the judges that were chosen to come up with 10 series that will ultimately determine the Champion!


----------



## jeff t.

helencalif said:


> At this point, it looks like only 4 dogs are now clean and that's how it will be going into the 10th since the remaining dogs yet to run the 9th have had handles previously. Right?


Having no handles may, or may not="clean"


----------



## helencalif

jeff t. said:


> Having no handles may, or may not="clean"


Very true. I was using the word "clean" as to mean free of handles. Did they start with #2 ?The blog has them starting with #2.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Andy was supposed to start with Ivy #1 but he had already started a series with her, so they went with the next dog. He will run last.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## kjrice

txrancher said:


> *"They are protecting their winner"*
> 
> When I read it , I thought they(he) was saying that the last 2 series were designed to protect the integrity of the dog that will become NAFC 2013. To me that shows the passion, knowledge and integrity of the judges that were chosen to come up with 10 series that will ultimately determine the Champion!


That could have been it too. Either way, whomever wins it will be in 9-10 and should be extremely proud because there were no gimmes.


----------



## helencalif

Thanks for the explanation, Lynn. I was wondering what happened to Andy and Ivy.


----------



## BonMallari

Is it cold or cool in Wisconsin, both Alex and Lauren look like they are dressed with warm clothing but I see a marshal or possibly Ted S in shorts...


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

That's probably because the marshal is FROM Wisconsin and he thinks is it warm, but the southern girls know what warm really is! So they are dressed for our winters.


----------



## Wade Thurman

Low 70's. People from the warmer southern states have thin skin when it comes to the northern 70 degree temps. LOL



BonMallari said:


> Is it cold or cool in Wisconsin, both Alex and Lauren look like they are dressed with warm clothing but I see a marshal or possibly Ted S in shorts...


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

Yep...low 70s = winter here. Warm is 105 with 99% Humidity. Lol


----------



## Granddaddy

EdA said:


> Thank you, I was very disappointed to have such a poor blind, it started bumpy and I could never get it smoothed out. He seemed to be fascinated with the decoy sluice, the full body decoys, and all the drag back scent from 7 they had to run through but be made me proud for most of the week.
> 
> It was a great experience. With his no bird in 7 he was in a holding blind for almost 2 hours Thursday and he was as relaxed as he could be and then had a beautiful set of marks in which 60% of the field picked up or handled, it was my proudest moment of the week.
> 
> We will be back next year given good health and fortune for both of us.
> 
> Thanks to all if my RTF friends for your support via the forum, PMs, and text messages. Holland has a very pretty and talented girlfriend waiting for him so even though I am disappointed he is not.


Great job Ed. We wish we were there & had your experience this week.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Last three did the test with a very good job for Andy and Ivy. They are literally clean. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Annette

WOW WOW Andy that is super!


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

Lets go Andy and ivy

/Paul


----------



## kjrice

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Lets go Andy and ivy
> 
> /Paul


A nice guy with a nice dawg....


----------



## Faststeel

Any word on the callbacks yet?


----------



## JusticeDog

No disrespect intended, but the blog states they are waiting for the announcement of the finalists. This is not true. They are not a finalist until they complete the series. They did the same thing last year. I had sent a text.


----------



## ramblinmaxx

Sorry Susan, but it is my understanding that a dog that makes it to the final series IS A Finalist......... IE: Final Series.

I may be wrong but that is what I was told.

thanks,
Marty


----------



## smillerdvm

txrancher said:


> I didn't realize you needed permission to speak on RTF. I do feel that you need to give someone an apology. When people come down like you did from behind their keyboard they are telling something to all who read it about themselves! I so glad I got a little insight on you!


Hey Monty, where did I state that you need permission to speak on RTF? Are you implying that I need your permission to speak on RTF?

To Whom do you feel I owe an apology ? Why do you feel one is owed? You have your work cut out to convince me I owe anyone an apology for what I wrote.

I responded to a post that stated they were surprised that a certain dog got dropped. I merely pointed out that unless you have the qualifications to be sitting in, and are in fact sitting in the judges chairs that you don't know. Only by watching, from the judges vantage point, every dog run and evaluating and grading that dogs work vs. the relative work of the rest of the field can you be in a position to know.I pointed out that he couldn't know and shouldn't second guess the judging.
The OP also stated that she had no handles or big hunts.How can he know that?

He has admitted to being a newcomer. The term "big hunt" is a relative term, especially to newcomers. You take an average newcomer who has only witnessed 4 or 5 derbies and he may think that almost every dog at the National had a number of "big hunts" 

He also stated that the blog indicated that it took some convincing to get her in the water, but that they thought she would be alright. Two things...... 1) I doubt the blog said that. 2) Who cares if it did, the bloggers aren't judging and therefore can't know what the judges do.

I also pointed out that I felt it tasteless of him to criticize the judges from behind his keyboard. Do you disagree? You apparently think it's OK for you to criticize me, but not for me to criticize the OP. Why? 
Once again Mr TxRancher who is it you think owes an apology to whom??

Lastly you finish with this bolded statement; "I IGNORE STUPIDITY UNLESS YOU BRING IT TO MY ATTENTION!"

I can only assume you hoped that would get my panties in a wad and go screaming to the janitor {who is the janitor, Chris, Sharon, you????}
Sorry to let you down Mr Willis, but this is the internet. As such it is rather meaningless
Besides in the instant case I can just consider the source after observing the wording, punctuation, grammar etc in your last two sentences.


----------



## Russ

ramblinmaxx said:


> Sorry Susan, but it is my understanding that a dog that makes it to the final series IS A Finalist......... IE: Final Series.
> 
> I may be wrong but that is what I was told.
> 
> thanks,
> Marty


You have to finish the last test to be considered a finalist. A dog that breaks, picks up, etc. in the last series will not be a finalist.

Gorilla hunts & double handles at the end are usually considered good enough to finish.


----------



## JusticeDog

Russ said:


> You have to finish the last test to be considered a finalist. A dog that breaks, picks up, etc. in the last series will not be a finalist.
> 
> Gorilla hunts & double handles at the end are usually considered good enough to finish.


Sorry Marty, someone confused you.... russ is correct. If you do not complete it, you are not a finalist. Until you finish, you are a 10 th series contestant. You do every thing possible to pick up the birds, but dogs have broken etc and not gotten to the end. Heartbreaking when it happens, but it does happen.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Nine to the tenth. I agree they are not yet finalists bit that is the lowest 
Number I have heard in a very long time.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## ramblinmaxx

Russ,
thanks........ I learn something new everyday when it come to these fantastic dogs. Guess the person that told me they just had to make it to the 10th to be a finalist was wrong........ no big deal, I agree the dog should have to finish all 10 series to be considered a finalst.

Marty


----------



## 2tall

Lynn Moore said:


> Nine to the tenth. I agree they are not yet finalists bit that is the lowest
> Number I have heard in a very long time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Well who are the 9???????? Posted somewhere yet?


----------



## ramblinmaxx

JusticeDog said:


> Sorry Marty, someone confused you.... russ is correct. If you do not complete it, you are not a finalist. Until you finish, you are a 10 th series contestant. You do every thing possible to pick up the birds, but dogs have broken etc and not gotten to the end. Heartbreaking when it happens, but it does happen.


Thanks, Susan


----------



## pam ingham

Perhaps someone there with an iphone, ipad or tablet would be kind enough to post the callbacks?? And maybe let us know who the eventual winner is- I don't know about anyone else but waiting on the blog and cb report from there seems to take an incredible amount of time. Even with no at&t coverage, people are able to text and call out on Verizon for instant info.


----------



## kjrice

1,2,23,29,40,57,68,85,87

Congrats to all the almost-finalists!


----------



## Handler Error

1,2,23,29,40,57,68,85,87

Good luck Tony


----------



## BonMallari

pam ingham said:


> Perhaps someone there with an iphone, ipad or tablet would be kind enough to post the callbacks?? And maybe let us know who the eventual winner is- I don't know about anyone else but waiting on the blog and cb report from there seems to take an incredible amount of time. Even with no at&t coverage, *people are able to text and call out on Verizon for instant info*.


Thats because those of us on Verizon are being monitored by the NSA, so they boost the signal so they can listen


----------



## Annette

TY for the call backs!


----------



## 2tall

Oh so sorry to see Lauren and Slider go. At the same time I am really happy to see Juice back. The blog made it sound sort of unlikely. And oh yeah, go Ali!


----------



## Mike Kempel

Really pulling for #85 Willie. Haven't spoke to Jim yet but hoping to do a breeding with him this fall. Congrats to everyone who has made it to the 10th series!


----------



## JusticeDog

One more set up, one more tear down, and everyone gets to take a nap! Well deserved! Big thanks to all workers, judges, and land owners for making this happen!


----------



## Granddaddy

What happened to Slider? No handles, correct? Maybe multiple big hunts?


----------



## 2tall

When will they start? Do I have time to go out and run a water blind?


----------



## Brandoned

Granddaddy said:


> What happened to Slider? No handles, correct? Maybe multiple big hunts?


David I was wondering the same??


----------



## TonyLattuca

Brandoned said:


> David I was wondering the same??


..............x3


----------



## rboudet

Ask Mark Smith about that. 2010 National, Ali over heated and he had to pick him up in the tenth on the fourth bird.. He was crushed!


ramblinmaxx said:


> Sorry Susan, but it is my understanding that a dog that makes it to the final series IS A Finalist......... IE: Final Series.
> 
> I may be wrong but that is what I was told.
> 
> thanks,
> Marty


----------



## Faststeel

X4 on Slider


----------



## lbbuckler

Go Johnny & Classy!!!!


----------



## Breck

My next puppies name gonna be Honey Bell.


----------



## MDowney

Go Tony and Dillon


----------



## firehouselabs

Go yellow dogs!!!
And Plug!!!


----------



## JusticeDog

rboudet said:


> Ask Mark Smith about that. 2010 National, Ali over heated and he had to pick him up in the tenth on the fourth bird.. He was crushed!


Gary Unger and rough. Dog broke in the 10th, and surprised himself. Didn't realize he had even done it. Dog backed up, but it was all over. Heartbreaking.


----------



## Susan

Good luck to #29 Punch and Alex! Punch is the litter brother to my AA dog Moose.

--Susan in Chula Vista


----------



## Wayne Nutt

All my favorites but one have been dropped. I like Punch handled by Alex Washburn. I have trained with Punch before and he is a great dog. And Jay Patton is a fine as person as you will ever meet. 

If you remember Punch was the top derby dog a few years ago.


----------



## Annette

Go andy and ivy!


----------



## helencalif

Good memory, JTS. Pink's point count was off by one point. This was because months after a trial, AKC disqualified a Derby dog's placement due to running without an AKC registration number (the litter number was used to enter the dog). When the dog was disqualified by AKC, his Derby placement was removed. This moved Pink up one placement in the Derby to get another point. (It also moved up the other Derby dogs; the RJ became 4th etc). 

Top Derby dog is not an AKC award. AKC does not do the point counting and has nothing to do with who is or who is not the top Derby dog. AKC never told Retriever News (who does do the point counting) nor the club that had given the trial that they had disqualified a dog and that they had changed the Derby placements. AKC did send a letter to the owner of the disqualified dog advising him that the dog had been disqualified and why.

Helen


----------



## huntinman

rboudet said:


> Ask Mark Smith about that. 2010 National, Ali over heated and he had to pick him up in the tenth on the fourth bird.. He was crushed!


That happened to John Cavanaugh and FC AFC Max Millenium in 2001 in Virginia, MN in the 10th series. He handled over and over to a fairly short bird in heavy cover on a hot muggy afternoon and the dog just could not come up with the bird. The entire gallery was holding it's collective breath hoping the dog would get the bird before he overheated. Finally John just dropped his hands and weakly said "here"... It was heartbreaking. I was sitting there in the gallery nursing my own wounds till that point. THAT had to leave a mark. Last bird. Right out front... I don't know John, but remember what a gentlemen he was about it and he came back to the gallery after taking care of his dog. Class act.


----------



## JusticeDog

I have heard that Ivy has done an excellent job.


----------



## pam ingham

Does anyone know what the test is??


----------



## Granddaddy

If they are running from the road at Lucy 1, phone signal is non-existent..........


----------



## Chad Baker

If ali hits this hard he has great shot. My 2 cents


----------



## scott spalding

Good luck to Andy he is one one the nicest guys you will ever meet.


----------



## Richard Finch

Way to make us proud with a fine showing Dr Ed... Congrats to all those still in the hunt!



Richard


----------



## Lynn Moore

First dog did the quad, do not know about 8u, but #1 Andy just handled on the last bird :-(

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Lynn Moore

87 sorry. If Bobby doesn't have to handle here his does not count as much, way back in the first. Agree Chad!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Wade Thurman

I don't know Lynn. A handle on a land double vs a water quad? I don't think the series should matter of when the handle occurs. The weight of the test IMO should have more to do with it.



Lynn Moore said:


> 87 sorry. If Bobby doesn't have to handle here his does not count as much, way back in the first. Agree Chad!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## JusticeDog

Chad Baker said:


> If ali hits this hard he has great shot. My 2 cents


well, you do have a tad of experience with this! The boys did a great job for you Chad!


----------



## zipmarc

Lynn Moore said:


> 87 sorry. If Bobby doesn't have to handle here his does not count as much, way back in the first. Agree Chad!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


While the official NARC blog is busy thanking sponsors, our lone reporter here gives us the breaking news. Thanks, Lynn.


----------



## EdA

Chad Baker said:


> If ali hits this hard he has great shot. My 2 cents


I am rooting for him but he has the H and a funky flyer hunt in 7, winner may be the one with the best last series


----------



## Chad Baker

That Dillon has ran a good trial also.


----------



## Chad Baker

Ed probably watched the 9th. I'm almost to Lexington ky lol.


----------



## EdA

Chad Baker said:


> That Dillon has ran a good trial also.


He was certainly one of the very best through 7,


----------



## Lynn Moore

Now Alex had handled on two birds do a handle will win it.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Lynn Moore

Now Alex double handled. Van Bergen did well. A handle is going to win this year.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## starjack

thanks Lynn


----------



## pam ingham

so much for non- existent phone service - big thanks to Lynn!!! Glad you can get through!


----------



## Lynn Moore

I am in the middle of Wyoming with spotty service. Hence the double post. Hey, we do what we can, right?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Janet Kimbrough

Lynn,

The blog says Van Bergen double handled and your post says he did well. Could you have mixed up Punch and Plug?

Janet


----------



## Lynn Moore

I think it is way more likely the blog is mixed up ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## Janet Kimbrough

Just asking. Thanks.


----------



## BrettG

Sorry saw the handle on the last bird.


----------



## Rainmaker

BrettG said:


> I might be stupid but it appears that Ivy is clean through 10, That is if the blog is correct so that should be a HUGE factor.


Might want to reread the blog.


----------



## Janet Kimbrough

Brett,

Ivy handled on the last bird in the 10th.


----------



## BonMallari

so with Andy/Ivy having handled does that mean that everyone left has a blemish on their "scorecard"


----------



## helencalif

This is a cliff hanger. Am very grateful we have Lynn reporting to us.


----------



## huntinman

Lynn Moore said:


> First dog did the quad, do not know about 8u, but #1 Andy just handled on the last bird :-(
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


So no dog will finish this National without a handle? Not that that makes a hill of beans...


----------



## copterdoc

So, the blog has #23 with a double handle in the 10th, but it was actually #29?

That's a pretty big thing to screw up.


----------



## huntinman

Lynn Moore said:


> I think it is *way more likely the blog is mixed up* ;-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Say it ain't so:shock:


----------



## ducky911

what happen to dog 30...no handle and out?


----------



## copterdoc

Now the blog says that #29 triple handled.

Still has #23 as a double handle.


----------



## Janet Kimbrough

Blog has 23 with a double handle and 29 with a triple handle.


----------



## huntinman

Chad Baker said:


> Ed probably watched the 9th. I'm almost to Lexington ky lol.


Hey Chad, we haven't met, but good run with Trav... Sorry you lost Grady early. I did the exact same thing in Spokane a few years back in an Amateur... Actually after the number I was supposed to get the mark... And I sent my dog for the blind! The no bird probably didn't do you any favors...


----------



## huntinman

JTS said:


> thats not good..........


Still a finalist.


----------



## jeff t.

JTS said:


> thats not good..........


Better than a switch!


----------



## Lynn Moore

Could be my friends there didn't see 23 correctly. Not pretty however you look at it.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## copterdoc

Refresh, refresh, refresh,,,,,


----------



## BrettG

What about Ali in the 10th


----------



## Janet Kimbrough

The blog says nothing about Ali (40) and has 57 Juice with a double handle. Can you ask your friend about Ali?


----------



## Janet Kimbrough

Never mind. posted it.


----------



## BrettG

Nevermind its up now


----------



## copterdoc

#2's re-run is all that's left.


----------



## huntinman

1, 68 , or 85. My guess.

Sorry forgot about number 2! Hope they smack it!


----------



## Bridget Bodine

Willie is the only dog that has not handled in this series....I think


----------



## Chad Baker

Thanks bill those tight blinds are extremely hard witb a dog like trav.
Overall the trial was awesome . Judging was exceptional as I would have expected. 
They have started hard and got harder as they should. I think they gave you 3 screw ups instead of the normal 2!
Congrats to the finalists !
Chad


----------



## EdA

Chad Baker said:


> Ed probably watched the 9th. I'm almost to Lexington ky lol.


Nope, has a leisurely morning almost to Des Moines


----------



## huntinman

Bridget Bodine said:


> Willie is the only dog that has not handled in this series....I think


He's been pretty strong according to reports from the scene...


----------



## scott spalding

It's looks like 1 or 85 at this point I can't imagine two handles getting the blue but you never know.


----------



## huntinman

scott spalding said:


> It's looks like 1 or 85 at this point I can't imagine two handles getting the blue but you never know.


Dang... Thought 68 was still clean... See what happens when trying to make a living interferes with important stuff?


----------



## EdA

scott spalding said:


> It's looks like 1 or 85 at this point I can't imagine two handles getting the blue but you never know.


You are correct, no way 2H wins


----------



## huntinman

huntinman said:


> Dang... Thought 68 was still clean... See what happens when trying to make a living interferes with important stuff?


(I'm a Realtor... Was out with clients earlier and they were pleased that I had the listings I was showing them on my iPad...
I never showed them the callbacks!;-))


----------



## JS

Next year we need a pick em for who announces the winner first.


----------



## smillerdvm

scott spalding said:


> It's looks like 1 or 85 at this point I can't imagine two handles getting the blue but you never know.


Wow if Pickering wins the National with his first Lab there may be tear soaked bandanas coast to coast


----------



## JS

So Dillon - 68 - handled twice?


----------



## huntinman

JS said:


> Next year we need a pick em for who announces the winner first.


I'm leaning 85, started strong and finished strong.


----------



## huntinman

smillerdvm said:


> Wow if Pickering wins the National with his first Lab there may be tear soaked bandanas coast to coast


Aren't they already?


----------



## Mike Kempel

huntinman said:


> I'm leaning 85, started strong and finished strong.


He was my pick at the start. He's been very consistent this spring.


----------



## JusticeDog

smillerdvm said:


> Wow if Pickering wins the National with his first Lab there may be tear soaked bandanas coast to coast


Now that is funny!


----------



## Brad Turner

I'm going crazy here!


----------



## EdA

huntinman said:


> I'm leaning 85, started strong and finished strong.


He did the test no one else did and his H in 7 was quick and crisp


----------



## john fallon

Wonder where #87 is in the judges mix ? His stats look good!

john


----------



## Lynn Moore

Agree Scott. Andy or Jim. Nice young dogs they both have!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## huntinman

One dog and team to take note of is 87. John Armstrong. I was told by another RTFer that Classy is Johns first trial dog. It's really pretty amazing to think about what he has just accomplished. He is a National Finalist with his first dog!! That's crazy. I know it's has been done, but it's rare. Congrats!


----------



## Mike Kempel

huntinman said:


> One dog and team to take note of is 87. John Armstrong. I was told by another RTFer that Classy is Johns first trial dog. It's really pretty amazing to think about what he has just accomplished. He is a National Finalist with his first dog!! That's crazy. I know it's has been done, but it's rare. Congrats!


John has a nice young Grady female currently running Derbys. Ran against her a couple times. He is a great guy


----------



## huntinman

Is there a pic anywhere of the 10th series test?


----------



## BrettG

Maybe someone will post it, seems the blog had trouble in the 10th and didn't get pic or drawing, but had a great description of the test.


----------



## kjrice

huntinman said:


> Is there a pic anywhere of the 10th series test?




Page not foundSorry, the page you were looking for in the blog 2013 NARC Blog does not exist.Go to blog homepage




Help Center | Terms of Service | Privacy | Content Policy | Developers 
Copyright © 1999 – 2013 Google


----------



## Rick_C

I really wanted to pick Juice in the pick 'em but couldn't come up with a dog to drop so I could. Would have had 3 finalists had I gone with my gut.

Either way, congratulations to all the competitors, finalists and Judges for keeping us all on the edge of our seats all week long!


----------



## kjrice

Andy and Ivy win!


----------



## Janet Kimbrough

Congrats to Ivy and Andy Kahn and all the finalists.

Janet


----------



## huntinman

Congrats to the NEW National Amateur Retriever Club Champion for 2013!! And all of the Finalists... Great accomplishment... It's been fun running vicariously through you guys and girls this week!


----------



## smillerdvm

Congrats to Andy & Ivy and to all the others who qualified, especially the finalists
Anybody have the pedigree of Ivy?


----------



## Lynn Moore

Fen and Hurricane Breeze. Congrats to a great team! Way to go Andy and your little five year old girl!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## sunnydee

Congratulations to Andy and Ivy, us Oregonians was rooting for you


----------



## jgrammer

Congratulations, Andy and Ivy!! We are so proud of you!


----------



## Aaron Homburg

*Congrats!!!

Aaron*


----------



## Rick_C

Congratulations Andy and Ivy!!!


----------



## Jim Harvey

Congratulations Andy and Ivy, way to run a great NAT AM.


----------



## huntinman

The winner's bib number was appropriate... What a great memento.


----------



## runnindawgz

Awesome .... Congrats!


----------



## xtrema-2

Congrats to all teams! I'm sure it was a great week for everyone!


----------



## Annette

CONGRATULATIONS Andy & Ivy.!


----------



## Sharon Potter

Congrats to Andy and Ivy...and to all the finalists! Heck, congrats to all who qualified...that's no small achievement in itself!


----------



## Bubba

Spent some time last weekend throwing birds with TJ Lindbloom(AKA Throws like a Girl) who trains with Andy a lot. He spent the better partof an hour (between sessions of dog cussing Obummer) convincing me to breed myPirte puppy to Blue – Ivy’ little brother. Needless to say- I’m sold on theidea now!!!
Congratulations to Andy and his family- never gonna finda nicer guy.
Where is my Barry White 8 track regards

Bubba


----------



## Gun_Dog2002

It's been a lot of fun watching Andy learn this sport. He's come a long way from that first master test. Congratulations

/Paul


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## Golddogs

huntinman said:


> That happened to John Cavanaugh and FC AFC Max Millenium in 2001 in Virginia, MN in the 10th series. He handled over and over to a fairly short bird in heavy cover on a hot muggy afternoon and the dog just could not come up with the bird. The entire gallery was holding it's collective breath hoping the dog would get the bird before he overheated. Finally John just dropped his hands and weakly said "here"... It was heartbreaking. I was sitting there in the gallery nursing my own wounds till that point. THAT had to leave a mark. Last bird. Right out front... I don't know John, but remember what a gentlemen he was about it and he came back to the gallery after taking care of his dog. Class act.



Sheila and I were at that test. Everyone said they had run a beautiful series and looked good to be at the top. A very classy man to handle it the way he did.


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## old'triever

Congratulations Ivy and Andy a job well done!
Congratulations to breeders Donna and Roger Fangsrud and Fen & Hurricane Breeze-proud parents.


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## leslie luray

A BIG CONGRATULATIONS to Andy & Ivy, what a week!!!! 
You made us all proud!


Your sister Biz & little sister Dove


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## Yellow Lola

Congratulations to Andy and Ivy


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## zipmarc

Congrats to Andy and Ivy, all the finalists and all the participants. You were all fantastic - and the judges set up great tests, Al Wilson, Lyn Yelton, Ted Shih. Thanks for the best show on earth, until November. And thanks Lainee, Lynn and RTF - still the best place to hangout and capture the breaking news.


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## Dos Patos

Congrats guys!


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## Jay Dufour

Here here RTF rocks !!


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## EdA

Andy ran first in at least 3 series, I told him that was his reward for providing the grounds, his ranch, for the 2014 National Amateur Retriever Championship and now he has the defending champion. He also has a very manly French Bulldog who I unsuccessfully attempted to make eye contact with all week.


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## scott spalding

Couldn't have happened to a better guy!


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## Purpledawg

scott spalding said:


> Couldn't have happened to a better guy!


Thats for sure. I watch them at a handling seminar this spring, Ivy is a sight to behold, marking machine.
Congratulations Andy. And next year we be at his place in Roseburg Oregon 2014 NARC


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## copterdoc

Maybe now they will finally update the pick-em.

Folks been changing their picks, more frequently than they've been updating the results.


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## copterdoc

huntinman said:


> Is there a pic anywhere of the 10th series test?


 Here you go.

Eight handles.


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## mjiorle

copterdoc said:


> Here you go.
> 
> Eight handles.


And only one blue.


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## copterdoc

mjiorle said:


> And only one blue.


 Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!!!

That was pretty good!


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## Richard Finch

Congrats Andy and Ivy!!!! 2013 NAFC!!!!


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## Jamee Strange

CONGRATS to the winner and all the finalists!! Looks and sounds like it was a VERY tough week. Everyone that finished earned it. Gives me something to aspire to with my dogs


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## AmiableLabs

huntinman said:


> I quoted my own post to show that Ammo's owners knew what to expect and were not surprised... Disappointed? Yes. But at their own performance in the 8th. No use in debating the callbacks. The performance was not up to par and she got dropped. Along with a handful of other very good dogs. Nothing to be ashamed of.


Many years ago we drove down to southern Illinois to breed to NFC "Eba." We were showing Gary Hanvey our dogs on our truck, including "Banner," who carried his tail high, straight up. I apologized to Gary for the "fault" in his conformation. He said in field trials there are times when you want it to be able to see your dog.

I whelped Ammo's daddy "Roux." I am an Ammo fan. I watched Ammo run the eighth. Some will tell you she had problems with the water. Bunk. She got lost in the cover on the backside of the pond. Tiny dog, tall grass. 

She is too good of a dog not to contend again!


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## Glenn Norton

Andy and Ivy.......What a great Team! Congratulation.
Hope you have a Cuban left to celebrate with.
Nice breeding for Roger and Donna Fangsrud. They must be pretty happy.
Now John will have to hire Andy for some handling tips!!!!!!!


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## Granddaddy

copterdoc said:


> Maybe now they will finally update the pick-em.
> 
> Folks been changing their picks, more frequently than they've been updating the results.


If folks have changed their picks, they will be disqualified. Unfortunately the programming for this contest is simplified to reduce cost & its integrity depends upon those playing to be honest. Picks were closed when test dog #1 came to the line in the 1st series. Any changes thereafter will disqualify the participant. So if you made a change after the event began, you're gone..........


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## BonMallari

I too must add my Congrats to Andy Kahn and Ivy and reiterate what a nice man he is..When he purchased Jack V. old place down in Niland Ca. he still allowed us to train on it....

and with two of the top 5 Derby dogs from 2012 he looks to be stocked for a few years to come


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## forhair

Congratulations to IVY and Andy. Way to go!


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## HarryWilliams

Huge congratulations indeed! Maximum effort to get there. Great accomplishment to qualify for, complete all 10 series and to be awarded the Winner!!! I'm sure Andy would tell you that he got a lot of help from others especially from John Henninger. Harry


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## Judy Chute

huntinman said:


> View attachment 13740
> 
> 
> The winner'a bib number was appropriate... What a great memento.


Great coincidence!!!


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## Mollet - Labs

Congratulations to all the qualifying dogs and handlers competing in the 2013 National Amateur Championship.
Congratulations to all the finalists and especially the special team of Ivy and Andy !
Mike Mollet/team Eddie and Star


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## Wayne Nutt

I never saw a list of the finalists and any pictures of the winner and finalists on Retriever News. Did I miss them?


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## Bridget Bodine

Congrats to all who made it to the 2013 NARC! and HUGE congratts to Finalists and The #1 dog and Handler!......sweet dreams are made of this!


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## bakbay

Wayne Nutt said:


> I never saw a list of the finalists and any pictures of the winner and finalists on Retriever News. Did I miss them?


That is all on the blog page at http://2013narcblog.theretrievernews.com/


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## Wayne Nutt

Must be something wrong with my computer. The page is blank after is says "And the winner is..."


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## john fallon

bakbay said:


> That is all on the blog page at http://2013narcblog.theretrievernews.com/


There is nothing on that page. The last bit of info posted on the Blog was the picture of the 9th posted 9:00 am Sat........

john


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## Rainmaker

When I click on the link to the blog, there are all kinds of photos of the winner and finalists, etc.


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## Granddaddy

Rainmaker said:


> When I click on the link to the blog, there are all kinds of photos of the winner and finalists, etc.


I get the same as you.............


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## canuckkiller

Ditto -
the link to the blog page on my screen shows .... Nothing.


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## Rainmaker

Try refreshing. Or else, there's a little symbol that looks like a broken page, in the address bar, just next to the refresh symbol. Says compatibility view, might try that once you're on the blog page as well.


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## byounglove

I get all pictures and video of announcement.


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## Granddaddy

Rainmaker said:


> Try refreshing. Or else, there's a little symbol that looks like a broken page, in the address bar, just next to the refresh symbol. Says compatibility view, might try that once you're on the blog page as well.


Actually deleting temp files and cookies would do it........


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## john fallon

Nope, I get nothing!

john


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## Wayne Nutt

I did all the mentioned things and I still have nothing. I was able to read everything up until Sat until waiting for winner to be named.


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## 2tall

Curious, are you guys not seeing the photos and video using the same browser?

Its worth fixing to see the sweet video of the announcement. Amazing that these super athletes look like the kind of dogs you would love to have on the sofa with you!


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## huntinman

Wayne Nutt said:


> I did all the mentioned things and I still have nothing. I was able to read everything up until Sat until waiting for winner to be named.


It's that Pirate virus...


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## SjSmith

I must have the virus by Pirate too.
Get the same as Wayne.


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## SjSmith

Granddaddy said:


> Actually deleting temp files and cookies would do it........


Tried that also. Still get this:

AND THE WINNER IS..... 

The 2013 NARC CHAMPION IS................


If anyone figures something out, I'd like to see it.


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## David Lo Buono

1.FC-AFC Dottie Ray’s Ivy League (Ivy), LF, Andy Kahn


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## cakaiser

Try another browser.


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## Wade Thurman

If you have watch the blog using the same browser for the past week why would you have to change the browser now?
Thanks




cakaiser said:


> Try another browser.


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## bakbay

SjSmith said:


> Tried that also. Still get this:
> 
> AND THE WINNER IS.....
> 
> The 2013 NARC CHAMPION IS................
> 
> 
> If anyone figures something out, I'd like to see it.


There are a couple other things you might try short of getting a new browser: hold down your control key while clicking on the refresh button, which should cause a total reload of the page; the second is to do a restart of your system.


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## SjSmith

Thanks, I tried CTRL Refresh, no luck.



Wade said:


> If you have watch the blog using the same browser for the past week why would you have to change the browser now?
> Thanks


And this ^^^.
Followed all week long and then it just ended.


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## Bridget Bodine

Did you scroll down? the picture that is at the top is a picture from the blog , but there are newer pics below....


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## Troopers Mom

On Internet Explorer I get nothing on the final day but did for the other days. I went to Google Chrome and finally got to see the final pictures. Strange!

Arleen


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## SjSmith

Troopers Mom said:


> On Internet Explorer I get nothing on the final day but did for the other days. I went to Google Chrome and finally got to see the final pictures. Strange!
> 
> Arleen


OK, switching browsers worked for me too. I see someone already suggested that.


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## SjSmith

Thanks, those are nice.
Is 29's bib bigger than everyone else's or what?:razz:


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## EdA

SjSmith said:


> Thanks, those are nice.
> Is 29's bib bigger than everyone else's or what?:razz:


No, Alex is just smaller than everyone else so she has it at her shoulders rather than around her neck so the number is visible


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## huntinman

SjSmith said:


> Thanks, those are nice.
> Is 29's bib bigger than everyone else's or what?:razz:


Stretch, if you were wearing that bib, it would look like a pocket hankie...;-)


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## SjSmith

huntinman said:


> Stretch, if you were wearing that bib, it would look like a pocket hankie...;-)


HA! Yeah you're probably right. Maybe someday, if I'm lucky, we'll find out.
How's that JRT?


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## AmiableLabs

Hey Dr. Ed, it was great seeing you again. You are an amiable character and make me want to move to Texas in the hope to find others like you.

Thank you for making me feel welcomed.


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## Wayne Nutt

Strange indeed. I wonder how many people use IE? Lots I would suspect. So, how does RN send out data that is not compatable to IE's browser?


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## john fallon

Wayne Nutt said:


> Strange indeed. I wonder how many people use IE? Lots I would suspect. So, how does RN send out data that is not compatable to IE's browser?



Perhaps they should resend it..........

john


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## Brad B

I can't see the pic either, using IE 9. But does anyone know what's up with the pick 'em on EE? It hasn't updated since the 6th series that I can tell. just curious who won.


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## Granddaddy

Brad B said:


> I can't see the pic either, using IE 9. But does anyone know what's up with the pick 'em on EE? It hasn't updated since the 6th series that I can tell. just curious who won.


EE personnel have a life too, they don't work weekends but it should be updated today unless work gets in the way.


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## Eric Fryer

So what is the Vegas line that Entry Express actually updates and finishes Pick'em?


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## Brad B

Wasn't complaining, just asking. Thanks for being ever so helpful.


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## RJW

Rainmaker said:


> Or else, there's a little symbol that looks like a broken page, in the address bar, just next to the refresh symbol. Says compatibility view, might try that once you're on the blog page as well.



I had the same problem as a lot of others, I use IE and have followed the competition with the exact same browser till the very end when the pics and vids were posted of the winner. I tried what Rainmaker suggested and it worked for me.

Congrats Andy and Ivy, job well done! And to rest that qualified and attended, great job as well. It looked like it was a nail biter from hell week.


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## kjrice

Sometimes it is a javascript or and error in a CSS. If someone decided to directly edit it via the HTML interface, they used the wrong syntax.


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## FOM

The RTF Summary is finally updated, sorry guys/gals - my life has been a little crazy lately...


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## priceskeet

Thanks for the coverage of the 2013 National Amateur Retriever Championship !!!!!!!!!!!!
Done a great job for the poeple that couldn't there.

Congrats to Ivy and Andy a dream come true.


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## Jacob Hawkes

Eric Fryer said:


> So what is the Vegas line that Entry Express actually updates and finishes Pick'em?


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## LESTER LANGLEY

I'd like to add my observations from the last 2 weeks at some point. First I'll read through this and the blog to see what's been covered.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

Just read this entire thread. My head is spinning.


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## roseberry

LESTER LANGLEY said:


> Just read this entire thread. My head is spinning.


71 minutes.......no wonder, you read too fast!


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## huntinman

LESTER LANGLEY said:


> Just read this entire thread. My head is spinning.


Read it backwards and you will unwind;-)


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## Granddaddy

Eric Fryer said:


> So what is the Vegas line that Entry Express actually updates and finishes Pick'em?


Results are up..........


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## john fallon

The Trial results and pictures can now be viewed on my computer using my IE browser.

Thank you ladies.( Tina Styan, Tera Lanczak and Gwen Jones)

john


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## huntinman

john fallon said:


> The Trial results and pictures can now be viewed on my computer using my IE browser.
> 
> Thank you ladies.( Tina Styan, Tera Lanczak and Gwen Jones)
> 
> john


We'll all be right over...;-)


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## johnclose

Great job by Tina Styan's news crew on coverage of the National Amateur Field Trial. We appreciate it!


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## johnclose

Good morning Lester. Rested up yet? Is your head full of feedback from reading all these posts? Let me know if I need to know anything.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

I've waited too long to do this, but here goes. I'm fighting insomnia so I thought I'd share my observations on the Nat Am.This is going to be pretty random and unorganized. Please forgive me. That's how my brain works at 2am. (it's usually worse!) I volunteered to help with the Nat Am 3 yrs ago when I learned that it would be in Mondovi. I spend some time up in that area each summer, and wanted to help the local clubs any way I could, with what I knew would be a huge undertaking. I'd never attended a Nat. Am. In fact, I've only attended one other National and that was the Open a couple years ago where I worked as a steward. While most would think I'm nuts to travel that far to work a field trial, I was very excited to be a part (in a small way) of what I consider The World Series, Super Bowl, etc of the only sport that really interests me. I follow each National very closely online, and to be on "the sidelines" was exciting for me. Frankly, it's probably as close to the Purina mat as I'll ever be!
In no particular order.....
Cell/Internet communication in this area is nothing short of terrible. That's part of the reason I like the place so much! I had a very hard time communicating with my committee even through text messages. The fact that Retriever News got ANYTHING out is a huge accomplishment in my opinion. Example- 5th Series. On post 108 of this thread, Dr Ed posted a pic. The only way to get data out was through the wifi in Randys house. Therefore, one reporter stayed on the hilltop and recorded the work in a handwritten notebook. About every 3 or 4 dogs one of the team had to walk from the house to the hilltop to trade notebooks in order to go back inside to get the updates online. I don't remember how many dogs were in the 5th, but that was one HELL of a LOT of hill climbing. The pics do NOT do the terrain justice. For the majority of the week someone was most always camped out in a basement trying to get the updates out. NOBODY WANTS THE INFO TO BE AVAILABLE MORE THAN THE CREW FROM THE NEWS.
I arrived a week early for setup week. I'm glad I did. I had no clue what all is involved the week prior to a National.We probably put 25 tests or so in the book. That's 25 times that a test was set up and run with at least 3 dogs. So for a quad for instance we might spend 4 hrs setting it up, with up to 10 people stationed in the field the majority of the time while the judges "fine tuned it" as there is zero time during trial week to "fine tune". To say that these judges were "detail oriented" would be an understatement. Then, we would all load up, cross the valley and set up something similar for a different wind direction. I'd guess each marking series had a minimum of 3 options. One morning I counted 51 people there at one time. Traffic didn't have much to do that week so I spent a lot of time throwing birds and bushhogging. Hay bales were brought in, brush was piled, planted, gravel was spread, roads were graded........the list goes on and on. I can honestly say that there was not a single feasable route to a single bird that a judge did not walk during setup. Trust me when I say that's a LOT of walking.
I simply can't say enough about how hard the setup crew worked. I think everyone enjoyed it. I know I did. Pete and Mitch kept things moving like a well oiled machine.

I can't imagine pulling off a National without great landowners. They met our every request and then some. The answer was always the same. "Do whatever you need to do." The time, effort and other resources that went into getting these properties ready was painfully obvious.
It's worth mentioning that the grounds are off limits to training For EVERYONE for a certain time prior to the event. For most of the locals, ALL of their training grounds were tied up (in the height of trial season) This included a couple of professionals who had to travel elsewhere to train. I didn't hear a single complaint.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

My hat is off to those who volunteered with setup dogs. How humbling! to step up, no collar, and put it all on the line (on VERY difficult set ups) in front of everybody, time after time for an entire week took a lot of "guts" in my opinion..... I can assure you that those dogs slept well each night.
I have very little experience on the subject, so I can't say, but I heard time after time throughout trial week from contestants that this would be remembered as a difficult National. I guess none of them are easy.
During setups, the judges don't really share what's on their mind with regards to what they're looking for in a given series. Having said that, it is MY OPINION that series 1 and 2 were not intended to be the ball buster that they were. It certainly didn't beat up the set up dogs to bad. What a difference a little wind, etc. can make huh? I do think they knew what they had with the long retired in the 4th though! haha
Random opinion- As a whole, I think this group of bird throwers is as good as any in the sport. They can CHUNK em!
A key theme throughout the 2 weeks was time management. Things had to go smooth in order to look at all the dogs fairly. Something that many don't think about is lightening. We stayed out for hard rain but if it started popping, in we came. This has been an incredibly rough spring in the area as far as thunderstorms go. During set ups lightening kept us out of the field for several hours one day. We were very lucky during trial week, but it was in the back of everyone's mind, knowing that lightening could potentially shut down everything for a half day (or more).


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## LESTER LANGLEY

It goes without saying that there were some VERY VERY VERY good dogwork there. (duh) I was absolutely amazed as I watched these old guys and gals dig out these "impossible" birds.
I've read before that on the weekend it's dog against dog, but at a Nat, it's dogs against the judges. Around series 5 or so, I started to notice applause. Not "golf clapping" but true cheering- horns honking and yelling- coming from the gallery and parking when a dog got through a test. I was very impressed, knowing that this SINCERE cheering was coming from fellow competitors. I think it says alot for the Nat Am Ret Club.
I don't know what the basis for the 2.5 minute hunt rule was, safety or otherwise. I can definitively say that in the 5th series especially I witnessed several dogs that had little or no hunts (straight out there, straight back) that still came back hot. The day was unseasonably warm and humid, long waits in the holding blinds and BIG HILLS. One dog in particular, I'm confident that had he not been picked up, would have went down before he got all the birds. That's my opinion anyway.


These judges liked to sluice. I think the dogs liked it too.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

I'm not sure how many people caught it, but as per the tradition, the test dog for the tenth got a surprise. All the birds of the quad were thrown/shot simultaneously, each with bright ribbon streamers attached. What many may not know is that they were PINK ribbon/streamers........for Susie Ritch. Susie is currently fighting cancer an was unable to attend this national. That did NOT however, stop her dog, FC PRIDE from showing up and making mama proud. FINALIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My hat is off to Pete Hayes for the ribbon color choice. Pretty damn cool in my opinion.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

Dr Ed's comment "the handlers aren't nearly as disturbed as some of the internet observers are"......... Dead On. 

"Clean" is a very relative term. 

I'm told that the blind before the double in the 3rd/4th was a first for a Nat? That bird was hard regardless. 


They went out with a bang. Only one dog did the tenth series marks without help.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

I met alot of REALLY cool people. I would encourage anyone who can, to participate in a National if ever given the chance. I co chaired a committee and made it a point to welcome anyone who wanted to help as long as they understood the seriousness of the event. Among others, my committee included serious trialers, breeders, hunt testers, a gun dog trainer, a guy who "just likes to train his dog" 2 people who's dogs ended up qualifying, a woman who doesn't own a retriever, and A hall of famer who judged the last Nat Am. We had it all and they all did a great job. I can't thank them enough.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

I had no idea how much the Sponsors bring to the table at these events. I lodged with Dennis Bath during my stay and he tried to help me understand lots of aspects of Nationals and the things that have to come together to make them happen. Without significant commitments from the sponsors, it literally would not be possible to hold an event of this magnitude, at least in the way that we are accustomed to seeing it.


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## Rnd

Thank you Lester,

It was a good read. Nice to get a perspective from someone working and observing what was going on.


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## huntinman

LESTER LANGLEY said:


> I've waited too long to do this, but here goes. I'm fighting insomnia so I thought I'd share my observations on the Nat Am.This is going to be pretty random and unorganized. Please forgive me. That's how my brain works at 2am. (it's usually worse!) I volunteered to help with the Nat Am 3 yrs ago when I learned that it would be in Mondovi. I spend some time up in that area each summer, and wanted to help the local clubs any way I could, with what I knew would be a huge undertaking. I'd never attended a Nat. Am. In fact, I've only attended one other National and that was the Open a couple years ago where I worked as a steward. While most would think I'm nuts to travel that far to work a field trial, I was very excited to be a part (in a small way) of what I consider The World Series, Super Bowl, etc of the only sport that really interests me. I follow each National very closely online, and to be on "the sidelines" was exciting for me. Frankly, it's probably as close to the Purina mat as I'll ever be!
> In no particular order.....
> *Cell/Internet communication in this area is nothing short of terrible. That's part of the reason I like the place so much! I had a very hard time communicating with my committee even through text messages. The fact that Retriever News got ANYTHING out is a huge accomplishment in my opinion. Example- 5th Series. On post 108 of this thread, Dr Ed posted a pic. The only way to get data out was through the wifi in Randys house. Therefore, one reporter stayed on the hilltop and recorded the work in a handwritten notebook. About every 3 or 4 dogs one of the team had to walk from the house to the hilltop to trade notebooks in order to go back inside to get the updates online. I don't remember how many dogs were in the 5th, but that was one HELL of a LOT of hill climbing. The pics do NOT do the terrain justice. For the majority of the week someone was most always camped out in a basement trying to get the updates out. NOBODY WANTS THE INFO TO BE AVAILABLE MORE THAN THE CREW FROM THE NEWS*.


Lester, thanks for your write up and your time at the National. It sounds to me like you had an excellent time.

As one of the folks who was frustrated by the communications delays on the blog, I would like to offer an observation and a potential solution. First the observation... We in this game are not known for being "early adapters" to change. We tend to do things a certain way and that's the way it is. A lot of us, including me, like it that way. (To a certain degree). This issue with cell reception has been a problem forever. This is nothing new. You can look back at the daily reports from 10 years ago from past Nationals and the issues are the same. Hilly terrain and poor cell reception. Those are the best places to hold an event like a National. 

Now for the possible solution... It so simple I can't believe it hasn't been done. The clubs (NRC or NARC) could rent a Portable Satellite Internet Unit for the week of the National... The cost is pretty low (relatively speaking) a Sat phone would be an alternative that while less effective than the Internet unit, would still beat what they are currently doing. 

I have used Sat phones from some very remote places in Alaska and they work great. No cell service needed. 

http://www.textamerica.com/inmarsat-satellite-internet

Just my two cents...

Thanks again Lester.


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## LESTER LANGLEY

Great idea. I'm as bad as anybody when it comes to wanting to follow the play by play online. I think it's good for the sport that so many people are serious about wanting to follow the the event closely.. It definitely needs a solution, as I don't see internet reception getting better any time soon.


----------

