# Central Minnesota FT entry numbers?



## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Anyone know how many Open dogs? Are the numbers insane? Got hen pheasants for training so, I sure hope like heck they use them at the trail.

Our first trail of the season. Oh boy! :?


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Good Luck to ya Franco!!!!!

Angie


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## Andy (Apr 20, 2004)

Go get'm Mr. Booty!
Andy


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

96 Open dogs entered.

They are running the first two series together. It is a long tight quad. Birds go down and then you have to heel the dog about twenty yards and run a blind. Then pick up the marks by invitation. Sounds interesting!


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Sounds like everyone better be on their toes!!!!

Keep us posted!!!

Ride On Little Wing!

Angie


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## Chad Wilson (Feb 5, 2003)

I assume you return to the original mat to run your marks?

Let me know how the Dogs do Franco


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Chad Wilson said:


> I assume you return to the original mat to run your marks?
> 
> Let me know how the Dogs do Franco


Not that I'm there, but yes... I can't imagine the judges doing anything different.

Angie


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Marking is of_ Paramount _(superior to all others, supreme)importance and some dogs will not even be given the opportunity To be judged on this, the most important of the natural traits.

This type of test flies in the face of that aspect of the Rules.

From a time management standpoint two 25yd walks = a lot of minutes when X by 96 dogs. 1 min each way is 3 hrs by my calculation and that is just for the walk with the test time still to be added.

john


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

[quote="john fallon"
From a time management standpoint 
john[/quote]

They ran 6.4 dogs an hour. They won't finish the first two series till Sat afternoon. In 10 hours Friday they ran 64 dogs and did partial callbacks, calling back 16. We were clean with a short tight hunt on ther flier.!  There is still a lot of Open left to run!

The blind was no little diversion blind, It was a tough son-of-a-gun, run close to the flier. The marks were long and very tight, thrown as a triple
(two retired), not a quad. I was told that the marks were tougher than the opening series marks of the Open last winter in New Orleans that had 120 dogs entered. 

That's the problem with big Opens like this one. The judges have to throw something to get the numbers down. I agree that marking is of primary importance but until clubs are willing to host a Restricted when needed, these are the type of setups one can expect. A lot of big name Pros running so the judges have to be tough.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Mr B,
Glad to hear that you did well.
6.4 dogs an hour w/16 called back?
Thats a 25% pass rate, which means that 75% of the dogs _FAILED_ the test . If that % holds it will be Noon on the second day of a three day event with 24 dogs back for the water blind.:roll:
If they don't back off and the % hold, only 6 dogs will be going to the water marks.
If they do back off _Whats Up With That_ :twisted: 
Who were the Judges ? 
How many dogs out of 64 got to run the Marks/Failed the blind?
john


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

john fallon said:


> Mr B,
> 
> Thats a 25% pass rate, which means that 75% of the dogs _FAILED_ the test . If that % holds it will be Noon on the second day of a three day event with 24 dogs back for the water blind.:roll:
> 
> ...


John, don't forget that is 75% after two series. The land blind then the land marks. It's a little after 3pm on Saturday and they are running the water blind. I don't know where they are with it. I should get a call after my dog runs the water blind. I don't know how many that got dropped had the opportunity to run the marks. I would imagine it was high percentage that got a shot at the marks because of the 6.4 dogs per hour. I saw a 110 dog Open Spring before last in Memphis end at 2:30pm on a Saturday afternoon. I'm not second-guessing the judges because it was the club that failed to use the Restricted tool.

Wait till you see the entry numbers at North Dakota in three weeks and Sioux Valley in four weeks. I'll bet they are well over 120 in the Open! 

All the Q results are in and all the placements went to local residents. Someone said that the Minnesota Mafia struck again! :lol:


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

Any more Cental news :?:


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

We haven't runthe water blind yet as of Sunday morning. :wink: 

24 dogs called back for the water blind. Got a call last night while I was out for dinner and it was hard to hear and hard to talk. Something about 5 ducks piled on a little island at some distance and the dogs HAVE to take a piece of the island on the downwind side with ducks in plain sight. Then proceed back into the water and on to the blind. I understand that the first few dogs to run failed the blind. I'll get clearer details later and post.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Didn't maker it past the poison birds!  

8 dogs called back to the water marks in the Open. Rorum has 3 or 4, Eckett has 2, Ledford has 1, don't know the others.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

It was a aged Open dog test.... Purely mechanical...... From the sound of it, it was "mean"!!!! I would have needed more than a few Excederin after running a dog, much less dogs this weekend. Totally mentally fatiguing

All the placements went to dogs over 6 years of age.

Running a blind before the marks, after watching the marks go down, with a invite to the marks after running the blind, just plain old sucks if you ask me.....

Angie


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Angie B said:


> It was a aged Open dog test.... Purely mechanical...... From the sound of it, it was "mean"!!!!
> 
> All the placements went to dogs over 6 years of age.
> 
> ...


I had the same conversation with a buddy of mine in Mississippi earlier today. There was no way my three year old was going to swim 10 feet downwind of a pile of duck on the water blind. Once he got a snoot full of mallards and saw them laying there, he was gone! If they had thrown a poison bird in the same spot I think we would have been OK. He knows not to get a thrown poison bird. There was a cold honor before the water blind. Those are some nice dogs that placed and there were a bunch of nice dogs that didn't make it through the land marks.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

> Those are some nice dogs that placed and there were a bunch of nice dogs that didn't make it through the land marks.


Hell they never got to the land marks,,,,,,,,,,,, If your blind was a little loose, it was "seeee Yaaa". To me that's not even close to being fair..... Sets my teeth on edge and makes my blood boil..........

The dogs never had a chance to show what they had..... Except how well they were trained and how much experience they had......

Angie


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

I know of one dog that the Pro thought the dog ran a really nice blind and got dropped. I think this is a problem of having over 65 entries in an Open. They'll drop you for anything. 

On the water blind, some of the ducks that were placed on the island rolled into the water. Not fair for the early dogs (we ran late) who didn't even have to get out of the water to get the poison bird. One of those dogs belongs to an RTF member. Judges told the handler they would consider it and went on. 

I understand that the water marks were the easiest part of the Open!


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

and he had a good trial going.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

kip said:


> and he had a good trial going.


I heard Ledford as well as some others gave the judges hell. Especially after it happen to a local dog too. That's just not fair.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

crank up the busssssss!!!!!!!


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

> I know of one dog that the Pro thought the dog ran a really nice blind and got dropped. I think this is a problem of having over 65 entries in an Open. They'll drop you for anything.


No, not if they're being fair....... What they did is dropped you on a "maybe" with no way to redeem yourself... That sucks... 




> On the water blind, some of the ducks that were placed on the island rolled into the water. Not fair for the early dogs (we ran late) who didn't even have to get out of the water to get the poison bird. One of those dogs belongs to an RTF member. Judges told the handler they would consider it and went on.
> 
> I understand that the water marks were the easiest part of the Open


No it never let up!!!!!

Angie


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

I have no complaints, my dog didn't do the water blind and eight did. The dogs that got the poison bird that was in the water should have not been dropped. My complaint is with the size of the entries and the club not utilizing the Restriced Stakes. The test were too mechanical because of the entry size. Our next trial is in N Dakota in three weeks and if the numbers are over 90 in the Open, I may have my dog scratched.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> I have no complaints, my dog didn't do the water blind and eight did. The dogs that got the poison bird that was in the water should have not been dropped. My complaint is with the size of the entries and the club not utilizing the Restriced Stakes. The test were too mechanical because of the entry size. Our next trial is in N Dakota in three weeks and if the numbers are over 90 in the Open, I may have my dog scratched.


Restricted or not..... Judges don't have to go the way that the judges did this weekend to get their answers......

Angie


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

The more i think about that water blind the madder i get. that was bullsh!!t. a poisin bird a dog can smell is a hell of a lot different than one a dog can see. If i ever do something like that somebody slap me!


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

kip said:


> The more i think about that water blind the madder i get. that was bullsh!!t. a poisin bird a dog can smell is a hell of a lot different than one a dog can see. If i ever do something like that somebody slap me!


I agree, the water blind got my guy too..... It was just plain nasty.

Angie


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

kip said:


> The more i think about that water blind the madder i get. that was bullsh!!t. a poisin bird a dog can smell is a hell of a lot different than one a dog can see. If i ever do something like that somebody slap me!


My understanding was that if the dogs were on line to the blind they could not only smell but also see the dead ducks! However, you ran early and there were PB's in the water and on land. Your dog didn't even have to get out of the water to get his.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Sounds like it was a tough Open.
Congratulations to Dave, Lorri and Darla's Mom Keila for kickin' butt and placing 2nd in the Open.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Breck, sorry but this is the Official CMRC bitch thread for all the RTF members that didn't make it pass the water blind! The Official CMRC Congats thread is four threads down the list. Thanks
:wink:


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> Didn't maker it past the poison birds!
> 
> 8 dogs called back to the water marks in the Open. .


Mr B,
Sorry to hear that! 

Well I was off by Two dogs for the callbacks to the water marks.
But had the rest of it right on the money. :wink: 

Angie is right, _"It Sucks"_when the a Basic Principle of the "Standard," states: "The purpose of a Non-Slip Retriever trial is to determine the relative merits of retrievers in the field. 
With marking being of primary importance!!!!!!!!............ and 50/60% of the field don't get to run the marks. :roll: 

There is something intrinsically wrong with a setup designed to initially keep a large percent of the field from being able to be scored on the Marks :twisted:

john


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Besides the use of a Restricted Open when it's known in advance the entries will be high, it might be smart for clubs to endeavor to employ two 8 point judges for that stake, or at least two judges with multiple all-age stakes to their credit. 

You can't have too much experience in the chairs when you've got 80+ dogs to judge, much less 100+....

As always, JMHO....

Keith Griffith.....I know _I'd_ feel more comfortable with an experienced partner in those circumstances...


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

> Angie is right, _"It Sucks"_when the a Basic Principle of the "Standard," states: "The purpose of a Non-Slip Retriever trial is to determine the relative merits of retrievers in the field.
> With marking being of primary importance!!!!!!!!............ and 50/60% of the field don't get to run the marks. :roll:


Could you say that one more time...... R-e-a-l S-l-o-w!!!!! :wink: 

Angie 

I knew you would jump in on this!


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## elcinc (Jul 25, 2005)

Hi Angie,

I have been reading some of the coments about the CMRC Trial last weekend and must say it was quite an Open. I was there and able to run my dog Max on Saturday because his number was 91, otherwise Dave would have run him on Friday. 25 dogs got called to the waterblind after the 1st and 2nd series. Any dog that got through the 1st 2 series had to for the most part be a well trained animal. The water blind was not any easier for the handler as well as the dog. The 4th series was again very tough and out of the ordinary. Max and I were one of the nine in the last series but were unable to do the test. After the trial I told Dave that I wasn't sure if the trial was more work for the dog or the handler. I have never run a trial where the handler had to be so much on his toes on the blinds and on the marks. I will say I learned alot more about Max and how much team work it took to get to the 4th series.

RW
CRR


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