# 4th Series National Open 2007



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

*Number dropped: 13*

*Number called back: 70*


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Please double check my work......I'm also still trying to wrap up the 3rd series.....so watch that thread.

Also anyone know dog 88's callname - can't access EE from work.

FOM


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## Scott Cmelik (Dec 15, 2004)

FOM said:


> Please double check my work......I'm also still trying to wrap up the 3rd series.....so watch that thread.
> 
> Also anyone know dog 88's callname - can't access EE from work.
> 
> FOM


FC-AFC Shooters Sugar Cookie (Hannah)


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

#88 is FC AFC Shooter's Sugar Cookie


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

I know the saying goes at a weekend trial....it starts at the water.......when does the National Start???.....someone might have mentioned the 7th????.....just thinking....

Aaron


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## J. Torrey (Nov 11, 2007)

I posted some pics of the fourth series water blind. When I have time, I'll draw in the lines to the birds. The blind is planted by the big rock beyond the second pond. 

Some nice jobs so far, but it will be almost impossible to line. 

National Pics on www.buckshotretrievers.com


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Who's handling Auggie?


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Jim Gonia is handling Auggie.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Aaron Homburg said:


> I know the saying goes at a weekend trial....it starts at the water.......when does the National Start???.....someone might have mentioned the 7th????.....just thinking....
> 
> Aaron


I know what you're saying, Aaron...but I think this one started in the _first_!

To me (IMHO only...), it's a series-by-series thing, just like a weekend. Your job is to try to survive each series, get called back, and give the next series a shot so that, hopefully, your dog will still be under judgement after the last series, whenever/whatever that is. If what JKL says is true and dogs with pops and multiple handles are called back to the fourth and its a blind, unless there are some failures, look for a BIG drop after the fifth or sixth series.

The gloves have been off from the git-go on this one regards,

kg


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## ponce (Sep 5, 2005)

WRC

Has #3 as a drop and #16 still in. Everything else matches. 

Thanks to all involved for the great reporting.

Jeff


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

K G said:


> I know what you're saying, Aaron...but I think this one started in the _first_!
> 
> To me (IMHO only...), it's a series-by-series thing, just like a weekend. Your job is to try to survive each series, get called back, and give the next series a shot so that, hopefully, your dog will still be under judgement after the last series, whenever/whatever that is. If what JKL says is true and dogs with pops and multiple handles are called back to the fourth and its a blind, unless there are some failures, look for a BIG drop after the fifth or sixth series.
> 
> ...


Here is a question...might be another whole thread.....is a quick handle better than a huge hunt?

Aaron


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Aaron Homburg said:


> Here is a question...might be another whole thread.....is a quick handle better than a huge hunt?
> 
> Aaron


Aaron, please. This is a FT. Of course the big hunt is preferable. A quick whistle would turn this into the SRS. Let em hunt, this is a marking test....

please sir, you must be joking....

/Paul


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

just off the phone with my contact - they are already getting ready to run Mark's 2nd dog (#1) - wow going super fast!

FOM


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

ponce said:


> WRC
> 
> Has #3 as a drop and #16 still in. Everything else matches.
> 
> ...


Okay - I should have confirmation from the guys there as soon as Mark is done running Diva.....go Diva! Breathe Jimmy!

FOM


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Per Angie...
3 is out, as is 83.

SM


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Aaron Homburg said:


> Here is a question...might be another whole thread.....is a quick handle better than a huge hunt?
> 
> Aaron


Based on the reporting of the hunts and handles so far (3 series), it _looks_ like a handle is preferable. However....those bad boys add up, too....how many will be allowed over 6 marking series is another question entirely....we'll find out soon enough, I suppose. Whether or not the dog displayed a positive mark will matter as well, I'd think.

_Looks_, as in "appears," mind you.....;-)

Straight answer regards,

kg


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Aaron Homburg said:


> Here is a question...might be another whole thread.....is a quick handle better than a huge hunt?
> 
> Aaron


If one handles quickly, how do you know the dog would have had a huge hunt?

If the dog is clueless as to where the bird is, a handle or huge hunt shouldn't make any difference in the end. That's because a percentage of dogs will have marked well.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Well it seems that people are upset that we are posting how dogs did or did not do - so I'm officially done. Sorry guys it was fun while it lasted.

I am getting confirmation on the number of dogs dropped between the 3rd and 4th - there are a total of 70 back.

I'm also removing the posts that have each series listed out.

FOM


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2007)

FOM said:


> Well it seems that people are upset that we are posting how dogs did or did not do - so I'm officially done. Sorry guys it was fun while it lasted.
> 
> I am getting confirmation on the number of dogs dropped between the 3rd and 4th - there are a total of 70 back.
> 
> ...


can't win for losin'... Sorry for the trouble. It WAS fun while it lasted...

Thanks for your help.

-K


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

FOM said:


> Well it seems that people are upset that we are posting how dogs did or did not do - so I'm officially done. Sorry guys it was fun while it lasted.
> 
> I am getting confirmation on the number of dogs dropped between the 3rd and 4th - there are a total of 70 back.
> 
> ...


And we're breaking what law??

It's not as if we have a guy who's girlfriend made a JH and thinks he can now criticise Lardy's handling techniques. :razz: :razz:

Honestly, I'm a little put out at whoever. This is my national fix.


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## Russ (Jan 3, 2003)

I do not understand the problem with at least posting which dogs have handled. Running commentary of a sports event is as American as apple pie.


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

K G said:


> I know what you're saying, Aaron...but I think this one started in the _first_!
> 
> To me (IMHO only...), it's a series-by-series thing, just like a weekend. Your job is to try to survive each series, get called back, and give the next series a shot so that, hopefully, your dog will still be under judgement after the last series, whenever/whatever that is. If what JKL says is true and dogs with pops and multiple handles are called back to the fourth and its a blind, unless there are some failures, look for a BIG drop after the fifth or sixth series.
> 
> ...


2004 National--I believe there were 25 dogs lost on the water blind in the ? 3rd ? series. Something like 13 picked up, and 12 were dropped. Am I close on that one?

2005 national--first series had quite a few handles, believe it was a double.

2006 National--first series had quite a few handles, and the third series had tight/very short marks that took a toll too.

It's day-to-day survival, hope for lots of luck along the way, and hope to be there for the 10th.


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## Kenmc (Apr 11, 2005)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Aaron, please. This is a FT. Of course the big hunt is preferable. A quick whistle would turn this into the SRS. Let em hunt, this is a marking test....
> /Paul


Let em hunt, this is a marking test. 
Say that out loud Paul so you can see if that sounds like what you intended it to sound like? Not to mention that Aaron probably read that in the AKC rule book. 

But gee Aaron, didn't you watch the video clip last year of Lardy laying down while his dog hunted for a "mark"?


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## sinner (Oct 21, 2007)

Having judged a national & run'em Judges usually have an attitude to carry as many as they can through 6 series. Then the tough get going. It is not easy and the dogs must be looked at test by test and compared to one another. Usually dogs get 2 serious faults through 6. All judges are different but it is a hard job and most are fair. 
Time is such a pressure factor everyday.


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## ducky911 (Apr 3, 2006)

FOM said:


> Well it seems that people are upset that we are posting how dogs did or did not do - so I'm officially done. Sorry guys it was fun while it lasted.
> 
> I am getting confirmation on the number of dogs dropped between the 3rd and 4th - there are a total of 70 back.
> 
> ...


THIS IS AMERICA

I was really enjoying your posts, I'm smart enough to take it all with a grain of salt and understand that you could be off some from the judges when viewing from a angle.

disappointed

Bob

What next nobody in the gallery, everyone to sit back out of sight, if I had the info I would post it with a warning of just what it was.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

83 is still in. He just ran out of order... don't know the story.

There people in the gallary complaining probably think we are doing subjective judging, rather than posting who did it, who handled. Thats pretty objective and i don't think anything is wrong with it.

Like most things, the people complaining are likely unaware of whats actually going on.

Shayne


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> 83 is still in. He just ran out of order... don't know the story.
> 
> There people in the gallary complaining probably think we are doing subjective judging, rather than posting who did it, who handled. Thats pretty objective and i don't think anything is wrong with it.
> 
> ...


Well walk over, burp, slurp and tell them between hiccups that if their dog was still in, they wouldn't care.....

/Paul


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

So, I have to ask. What difference will it make to their success in this event for us to know who handled, had a big hunt, or smacked it? Is it going to influence the judges? Will it change Joe Shmo's mind on which stud he's going to breed his bitch to? What a country...

And I thought high dollar pro athletes were bad.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Yipppeee - Twister and Al are still playing!

FOM


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## birdthrower51 (Aug 23, 2004)

Thank you to all that did the reporting. My dog #66 is out and almost home. But I was glad to have the reporting so that I felt a part of the scene. For what it cost, at least I had the reports as soon as possible, thanks to you guys!
Glenda


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

birdthrower51 said:


> Thank you to all that did the reporting. My dog #66 is out and almost home. But I was glad to have the reporting so that I felt a part of the scene. For what it cost, at least I had the reports as soon as possible, thanks to you guys!
> Glenda


Sorry to hear you're out, but congrats on the good year. Hope that 2008 is as good to you as 2007 was!


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

FOM said:


> Yipppeee - Twister and Al are still playing!
> 
> FOM


Now dang it Lainee, are you sure you're allowed to post this??

Not wanting to upset the powers that be regards,


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Russ said:


> I do not understand the problem with at least posting which dogs have handled. Running commentary of a sports event is as American as apple pie.


I can bet that the folks up in the gallery have notes on how dogs have done. Damn no I have to call folks direct to see whats up. When marshalling I pay attention and mark handles pick-ups pops and so on. Whats the diff ???????????


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## Ga Woodrow (Mar 4, 2006)

Lainee thanks for letting us know what you did. Sounds like there are some pretty uptight folks there. Dissapointed.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Howard N said:


> Now dang it Lainee, are you sure you're allowed to post this??
> 
> Not wanting to upset the powers that be regards,


Psssttt Shayne posted that #83 is still in - that happens to be Twister and Al!

FOM


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

FOM said:


> Psssttt Shayne posted that #83 is still in - that happens to be Twister and Al!
> 
> FOM


Oh sure, pass the buck to the new daddy to be.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Maybe SOMEONE(s) doesn't like the real time (reporting) competition. HPW


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Anyone have just the number of the dogs dropped between the 3rd and 4th? I know of 2 dogs that I thought was dropped baased on the previous thread that were not and actually ran good blinds.

Also this is going to be the last series of the day....

FOM


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## Anthony Heath (Jan 3, 2003)

> Well it seems that people are upset that we are posting how dogs did or did not do - so I'm officially done. Sorry guys it was fun while it lasted.
> 
> I am getting confirmation on the number of dogs dropped between the 3rd and 4th - there are a total of 70 back.
> 
> ...


And I thought most of us that played this game had the intestinal fortitude to take it when we got kicked in the teeth and come back for more. Then again I guess most do, but some ...................

Like another posted, it's not like we are affecting the outcome justing posting the observations of others and keeping track.

If anyone wants the files that included The analysis send me a PM, as I pulled the 3rd and 4th series postings off my cache. Might be a while as I have to pick a dog up from the vet after some surgery and handle family obligations, but will get them to you eventually.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Anthony, you're making _far_ too much sense. Stop it. Now. Or maybe after a few most posts on this thread addressing the subject. But then for _sure_.

Behold the power of RTF/thin skinned folks running a National? Whooda thunk it regards,

kg


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## Rich Schultheis (Aug 12, 2006)

can we please realize there is no harm in posting this info and keep it going? folks like me at home or work just wanna keep up with how things are going, no harm there, and like suggested above, nothing judgemental about handles/no handles, and drops...


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm an not going to post because people assumed my source was my Pro. There were some giving him grief for innaccurate information, even though he was *NOT* my source (we only discussed his dogs and a very select few we both hope do well). My Pro does NOT need grief from anyone right now and I will not be a source of that grief in any way form or fashion. I want my Pro to focus on winning not the happenings on RTF. 

Sorry.

FOM


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## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

WTF?

I guess I missed something because I was really enjoying the info that was being posted here regarding the National. Who complained? What was the problem? Please fill me in.

If someone got upset--I don't really understand how posting results & "play by plays" hurts anyone's feelings. Are there really people out there that are this sensitive? If so, then grow up and learn how to accept observations by third parties. You probably got a dose of deeling with other people's observations if your dog has qualified for the National or even passed a Hunt Test...

To FOM & KG, thank you very much for keeping us posted on the National so far & I hope that the reporting resumes at some point. Otherwise, how are the rest of us going to find out any real info other than that posted by the AKC at 11pm EST every night???


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## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

FOM said:


> I'm an not going to post because people assumed my source was my Pro. There were some giving him grief for innaccurate information, even though he was *NOT* my source (we only discussed his dogs and a very select few we both hope do well). My Pro does NOT need grief from anyone right now and I will not be a source of that grief in any way form or fashion. I want my Pro to focus on winning not the happenings on RTF.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> FOM


Can anyone at least post which dogs have handled or picked up? This is objective information that even the most sensitive cannot dispute as anything but factual. If they are offended by such objective communication, then maybe they should move to an island by themselves.


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## Gene (May 6, 2004)

Sure hope someone will at least post timely call backs? This is one of the FT folks Super Bowls/World Series etc. This and the National AM. I've enjoyed following the many posts. 
Several local dogs and friends still playing and would sure like to keep up with their results. 

I can see Lainee's point. She sure doesn't need her pro taking heat at this time for something perceived. Obviously no ill intentions with any of these posts. Just trying to keep people up to date the best way we can and devoting a great deal of time doing it. So thanks for taking us to series 4. Now someone please post what you are comfortable with posting on series by series and at least callbacks as they are given.
Many thanks to those keeping us as up to date as possible. 

Gene


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Dang, some of the handlers are confident with their initial lines. No whistles in mouth, while sending dog.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Aussie said:


> Dang, some of the handlers are confident with their initial lines. No whistles in mouth, while sending dog.


Could also just be nerves - I'd probably bite the end of my whistle off if I was there!

FOM


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## Brian Cockfield (Jun 4, 2003)

Anthony Heath said:


> And I thought most of us that played this game had the intestinal fortitude to take it when we got kicked in the teeth and come back for more. Then again I guess most do, but some ...................
> 
> Like another posted, it's not like we are affecting the outcome justing posting the observations of others and keeping track.
> 
> If anyone wants the files that included The analysis send me a PM, as I pulled the 3rd and 4th series postings off my cache. Might be a while as I have to pick a dog up from the vet after some surgery and handle family obligations, but will get them to you eventually.


What a bunch of dang cry babies. I think Joe S. once said this sport was just dogs picking up stuff. I can't believe people are so sensitive these days. For all you whiners that have complained about the updates from the trial, waaaahhh!


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## J. Torrey (Nov 11, 2007)

I posted a few more pics from the fourth series. www.buckshotretrievers.com 

Lots of good handling and dog work. Good luck to everyone.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

J. Torrey said:


> I posted a few more pics from the fourth series. www.buckshotretrievers.com
> 
> Lots of good handling and dog work. Good luck to everyone.


THANK YOU!


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## Marty Bullington (Dec 15, 2005)

FOM said:


> Well it seems that people are upset that we are posting how dogs did or did not do - so I'm officially done. Sorry guys it was fun while it lasted.
> 
> I am getting confirmation on the number of dogs dropped between the 3rd and 4th - there are a total of 70 back.
> 
> ...


What a shame Lainee! You were doing one hell of a job!

MB


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Lainee, I wish you would reconsider! You were doing a wonderful job.;-)
Just ignore the jerks that piss you off!


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## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

Lainee I just got home and found out about the reporting. I find it hard to believe. You and the others have done such a great job. I left home at 11 am so missed all afternoon. Now I have no idea who is in or out and won't know. WRC has yet as of this am to post callbacks. Some people sure know how to ruin it for those of us at home. 
Thanks again for all your work. Marie


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## AlexM (Apr 12, 2006)

Thats real annoying..I was enjoying your posts Lainee...


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Buzz said:


> So, I have to ask. What difference will it make to their success in this event for us to know who handled, had a big hunt, or smacked it? Is it going to influence the judges? Will it change Joe Shmo's mind on which stud he's going to breed his bitch to? What a country...
> 
> And I thought high dollar pro athletes were bad.


It was such fun having Lainee post  I found myself checking to see how my favorite retrievers were doing..handle, picked up..whatever. And...it gave (me) an idea of the factors involved in the series....lots of handles perhaps due to terrain, tight marks..wind..whatever. Then the pictures, maps add to all that information.. 

So..from the other side of the country disappointed regards, 

Judy

oh.....thanks, Lainee, for all your effort, almost like we were there.


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## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

I need to apologize to WRC I just checked and they have posted the dogs dropped through the 3rd series.


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## prophet (Mar 2, 2005)

Laniee
Thank you for all the time you put into keeping everyone up to date
I really enjoyed it & to everyone else that has kept us up to date
________
Ferrari Inter History


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Patti said they are done for the day. They will post callbacks tonight, not sure when. Word is they have been letting dogs play. Complete and total failures obviously not back but judges are confident in their tests (hum, isnt that something someone once said a while back on a different thread;-)) and will make a cut maybe after tomorrows test (rumor its a mean quad).

On another note, Creek Robber fans...3 whistle water blind.


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## sinner (Oct 21, 2007)

lANIEE, JUST LIKE A FIELD TRIAL! OUR SPORT HAS GOOD FOLKS AND SOME JERKS!
DON'T LET THE JERKS INFLUENCE YOU. I WAS READING YOUR EVERY WORD.
TELL THEM TO PUT IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE!
QUOTE FROM WILLIE NELSON: AIN'T NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT NOW! MAX


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## BROWNDOGG (Nov 26, 2005)

Videos are up on AKC
________
Mywebcamhookup


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Great pictures!!! Thank you  Hoping "Jake" #7, Golden ...and "Abby" #38 are still in..


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Did they finish the 4th today?


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

JKL said:


> Patti said they are done for the day. They will post callbacks tonight, not sure when. Word is they have been letting dogs play. Complete and total failures obviously not back but judges are confident in their tests (hum, isnt that something someone once said a while back on a different thread;-)) and will make a cut maybe after tomorrows test (rumor its a mean quad).


yes they finished.


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## ghjones (Nov 25, 2004)

I'm sure most everyone has noticed the banner dedicating the "'coverage' and dialogue" to Joie's memory. Too bad that has to be shortened to just the "dialogue". I totally understand Lainee's rationale for not wanting to put Mark in a bad position. Lainee, Shayne, KG and all others were doing a great job keeping us informed. So sorry to hear that some have to be so defensive. Blecgh.

G


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Some videos of the 4th, water/land blind are on the AKC site.

My man Creek Robber smoked it!!!


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## wallyk (Nov 13, 2003)

For what it is worth. Our society is deteriorating because we let a minority ruin it for the majority. When are we going to stand up and tell them to go where they deserve. Laniee, thanks for the posts.


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## Mike Noel (Sep 26, 2003)

Word has it that for the rest of the National each of the gallery members have to sign a document stating that they will not have any opinion of the dog work that they see that day.....I kinda feel like I am in some sort of Orwellian nightmare right now. Anyone else?



PS. If you think I smacked it, handled or had a big hunt on this post please keep it to yourself.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Mike Noel said:


> Word has it that for the rest of the National each of the gallery members have to sign a document stating that they will not have any opinion of the dog work that they see that day.....


I hope this is a joke...


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## Mike Noel (Sep 26, 2003)

The fact you are unsure speaks volumes my friend.


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## Creek Branch (Sep 25, 2005)

I sure was enjoying the updates!!! I too think itwas just facts and the ones mad are probably out or headed that way! I do not think there was anything wrong with it . Those small loud groups ruin everything!! Thanks again to the folks that kept us long distant fans updated!!!!!!!!!


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

lablover said:


> Some videos of the 4th, water/land blind are on the AKC site.
> 
> My man Creek Robber smoked it!!!





Gave me chicken skin.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

In the words of my dear, departed GrandMother, "F&*%'em if they can't stand the heat!!"

I loved Granny.

Jerry


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## Kris Hunt (Feb 25, 2005)

Wow, field trial competitors at their best. I was really enjoying the coverage, can't understand the problem.

Hi MAX!! Glad to see you posting.

Kris


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## Marty Bullington (Dec 15, 2005)

wallyk said:


> For what it is worth. Our society is deteriorating because we let a minority ruin it for the majority. When are we going to stand up and tell them to go where they deserve. Laniee, thanks for the posts.


That pretty much sums it up!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Josh Conrad (Jul 3, 2005)

Dusty Fans, 2 whistled it.


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Tidbit.....for those keeping tabs on Quasi, Patti said she had a very quick clean handle this morning on the 3rd series and IHO a great water blind. AND I know SHE doesnt mind me tellin' ya all.
Jill (FC Timber Town Trifecta) hunted the entire state of California" on the 3rd series but no handles. By the time she decided to handle it was too late, she figured she might just as well let her hunt it up! Followed up by an "OK" water blind.


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## Anthony Petrozza (Jan 4, 2005)

ACEBLDRS said:


> Dusty Fans, 2 whistled it.



Nice!!! got a dustbucket coming this weekend...


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

JKL said:


> Tidbit.....for those keeping tabs on Quasi, Patti said she had a very quick clean handle this morning on the 3rd series and IHO a great water blind. AND I know SHE doesnt mind me tellin' ya all.
> Jill (FC Timber Town Trifecta) hunted the entire state of California" on the 3rd series but no handles. By the time she decided to handle it was too late, she figured she might just as well let her hunt it up! Followed up by an "OK" water blind.



Thanks, was wondering how they were doing.


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## BROWNDOGG (Nov 26, 2005)

ACEBLDRS said:


> Dusty Fans, 2 whistled it.



Would you call that a "Smacked it" ? If so I hope this is second hand information and you weren't accually in the gallery today trying to report this kind of information.. 

What a joke.......

I was looking forward to comming home after work today kicking back with a cold one and reading it play by play, to bad.

To all involved thanks for trying.
________
Milf Video


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

I have been fortunate, Patti answers her phone! She also gave me some other news from the Natl but since it does not involve my dog or hers I wont say anything! My best guess is thats what originated the bad attitude from the Natl gallery in the first place.... they got tired of calling home results just to find out we already knew! 
Its not the gossip they hate, its the fact they cant be the one to spread it......


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## Jason E. (Sep 9, 2004)

Is the gallery really being told not to report ???


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## Mike Noel (Sep 26, 2003)

Officially no, but the desired effect has resulted. The Thought Police have done their duty.

Lainee, thanks for your efforts, I really enjoyed what you did.


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## Brandon Wall (Sep 23, 2005)

Did anyone else notice the almost silent whistle Dave Mosher was blowing on Goldie's water blind on the AKC video?? Was this an illusion of the camera's sound or was it actually a silent, or almost silent, whistle??


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

If I ever make it to the national I will report what I had for breakfast. 

BTW hunted today with a fellow trialer with 2 FT dogs. We shot at some teal and neither dog broke.

Thought I would GDG it up since the reporting went away.

Thanks for the effort Laniee anyhow


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## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Well I hope I don't piss off my pro, but, fewest whistles don't equal "smacking" a test. I don't think the judges will drop a big name dog or two even though they didn't take certain key factors, but, I know the judges will take it into account.


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## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

Thanks JKL for posting about Quasi & Jill and Patti. I always root for Patti and her dogs.
It is sure tough sitting here wondering if the call backs will get posted before I go to bed. Pretty boring with no reports.


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

This sport of field trials is just bound and determined to stay in the 1930's. Maybe we should just run 70 yard marks and limit the National field to 26 dogs.

What other sport have you ever heard of that didn't keep score? 

I think that EE should have an optional spot on the Entry Form that allows you to add $.25 per entry to go towards hiring a National Reporter that will be at the trial every second of every series and report on the event. Each report will start with a disclaimer. The information provided in this report is soley the opinion of (reporter(s)) who are hired by Entry Express to provide these reports. Entry Express has no editorial say in these reports and as such are not liable for their content. (or something to that effect, the lawyers can work it out). I bet there would be a whole lot of folks that would fork over a quarter per entry every now and then to have some reporting of the big events. 

Then, we make a big ol scoreboard, just like the Golf Tournaments. It has each dog for each series and whether it was done without a handle. A big hunt will be donoted. The reporter will say whether a dog picked up a blind or picked up period.

These reports will be done as each dog runs. You could even stream some video of the test dogs.

Then we would have a National with real reporting. When the dogs hit the Tenth series we will KNOW which ones have not handled. Everybody at the National knows, why not the rest of the country?

The sport is too big to leave it in the dark ages.

Off my soapbox, flame suits on if the National Police are lurking!

Tim West


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## Steve (Jan 4, 2003)

There are three pieces of water in this blind. Do you think all 3 are mandatory.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

My "participation" in the reporting has only been to repeat the IMs sent to me by Shayne when he was there. Lainee took it upon herself to do the research, keep up with the callbacks, and do her dead level best to report what had been told to her from her several sources. Kudos to her for her efforts. I surely do not blame her at all for her decision to leave the reporting to someone else, whomever that ends up being, because of small-minded people and their comments to Mark Edwards. That is BS of the highest degree.

It almost makes me want to rethink my involvement with the sport I've come to love so much. The pettiness and back-biting that it would take to comment to a pro _at a National_ about posts made on this site is astonishing; I hope those who were guilty of it can sleep at night. 

I think JKL hit it on the head: those who were there trying to legitimize their attendance in the gallery, wanting "dibs" over the information (be they with an organization or as individuals), wanted someone with a stake in the trial to "blame" over any little description or wording that they could take issue with. How sad is that....

Again, what a powerful community RTF has become. It would appear that same is not sitting well with some_one_ or some_thing_. 

Old institutions die hard regards,

kg


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Mandatory? Its all relative but at the Natl, if its on line better give your best effort.


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## J. Torrey (Nov 11, 2007)

BROWNDOGG said:


> Would you call that a "Smacked it" ? If so I hope this is second hand information and you weren't actually in the gallery today trying to report this kind of information..
> 
> What a joke.......
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why things have gotten so weird in here? Luckily the judges are not making there decision based on some of this info. LOL!! Relax, post, have fun. This thing won't even start until the 6th series. 

Enjoy the pictures. www.buckshotretrievers.com


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Something else to consider regarding the commentaries. Not all handlers see with open eyes. Some have "very rosy" glasses about their work and to have posted on the internet an adverse opinion could be upsetting. I think its called Sensitive Ego Syndrome.


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## Troopers Mom (Nov 19, 2005)

Someone please help me to understand how a few comments to a pro could literally shut this whole reporting down. Has this information become classified? And if so, by whom? Is this so powerful that it can hold the event hostage? I'm frankly astonished and becoming extremely disillusioned. Is this still a free country? I'm not so sure. Censorship at its worst.

Arleen


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

I thought there were no politics in FT's? Well, at least gutman told me that a few weeks ago. I'm shocked and saddened that someone would be so bold as to imply that a person and/or person's pro could be negatively treated based on posting results. How unethical is that? Gutman said those that think there are politics in FT's are just upset that they suck in FT's. So since thats the case I hope his old judging partner continues to take the lead on posting updates. Can I ask that someone reply to all his updates though, that way I can see them.....


/Paul


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## Brandon Wall (Sep 23, 2005)

Dogs Lost in 4th - 10, 22, 27, 36, 37, 39, 56, 64, 80, 83


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## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Troopers Mom said:


> Someone please help me to understand how a few comments to a pro could literally shut this whole reporting down. Has this information become classified? And if so, by whom? Is this so powerful that it can hold the event hostage? I'm frankly astonished and becoming extremely disillusioned. Is this still a free country? I'm not so sure. Censorship at its worst.
> 
> Arleen


A comment to a Pro, who is in competition, caused a client and friend of that Pro to choose not to continue posting results, because it would be distracting and detrimental to that Pro. 

Note that the Pro was not even the source of the information being posted.

Other people are still free to post results, if they choose to.


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## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

Thankyou Brandon Wall for posting. I am sorry for the dogs lost. They are all still great dogs.!


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## Paul Mocciaro (Jul 18, 2005)

AKC Video of Longshot Black Talon is not right , that is not her running that blind 
I will talk to the AKC video guy to fix it
Thanks 
Paul


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## Mike Noel (Sep 26, 2003)

K G said:


> My "participation" in the reporting has only been to repeat the IMs sent to me by Shayne when he was there. Lainee took it upon herself to do the research, keep up with the callbacks, and do her dead level best to report what had been told to her from her several sources. Kudos to her for her efforts. I surely do not blame her at all for her decision to leave the reporting to someone else, whomever that ends up being, because of small-minded people and their comments to Mark Edwards. That is BS of the highest degree.
> 
> It almost makes me want to rethink my involvement with the sport I've come to love so much. The pettiness and back-biting that it would take to comment to a pro _at a National_ about posts made on this site is astonishing; I hope those who were guilty of it can sleep at night.
> 
> ...


Well said KG......now, since I am a client of Mark Edwards I will refrain from further comment!


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## TroyW (Nov 27, 2006)

This sport of field trials is just bound and determined to stay in the 1930's. Maybe we should just run 70 yard marks and limit the National field to 26 dogs.

What other sport have you ever heard of that didn't keep score? 

I think that EE should have an optional spot on the Entry Form that allows you to add $.25 per entry to go towards hiring a National Reporter that will be at the trial every second of every series and report on the event. Each report will start with a disclaimer. The information provided in this report is soley the opinion of (reporter(s)) who are hired by Entry Express to provide these reports. Entry Express has no editorial say in these reports and as such are not liable for their content. (or something to that effect, the lawyers can work it out). I bet there would be a whole lot of folks that would fork over a quarter per entry every now and then to have some reporting of the big events. 

Then, we make a big ol scoreboard, just like the Golf Tournaments. It has each dog for each series and whether it was done without a handle. A big hunt will be donoted. The reporter will say whether a dog picked up a blind or picked up period.

These reports will be done as each dog runs. You could even stream some video of the test dogs.

Then we would have a National with real reporting. When the dogs hit the Tenth series we will KNOW which ones have not handled. Everybody at the National knows, why not the rest of the country?

The sport is too big to leave it in the dark ages.

Off my soapbox, flame suits on if the National Police are lurking!

Tim West



Amen Tim
TroyW


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

" Pissin and moanin" , Very common in hunt test and field trials and pretty pathetic IMO.

Thanks Lainee, 
As a wise has posted "screw em".


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

I agree with all the comments so far, but could there not be a compromise?

Howabout we post just who handled and who didn't without grading their performance?

Again, keeping it to the objective and avoiding the subjective.


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

Dang Lainee! That really something that you obviously were "chastised" (or something) for doing such a great job of reporting. This is the first year I have followed Nationals and can actually fathom what is going on, and have actually seen dogs run that have made it to Nationals. It was fun feeling a part of something that many of us just dream about. Jeez, I dream of winning a flipping Q! Why someone would take that from us is beyond me! Pretty messed up.:evil::evil:

Thanks for giving it a whirl, and being someone's whipping post for the good of your RTF pals.... Or whatever happened...


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Too bad Shayne left for home.


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Someone asked about Dave Mosher's whistles---when he was in the holding blind while I was a marshal, I noted he was wearing the orange "The Answer" whistle produced by Lucky Dog. 

The above is totally factual, contains no biased commentary, and if anyone wants to know what whistle anyone else is using, please give me a heads up.

Glenda


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> I thought there were no politics in FT's? Well, at least gutman told me that a few weeks ago. I'm shocked and saddened that someone would be so bold as to imply that a person and/or person's pro could be negatively treated based on posting results. How unethical is that? Gutman said those that think there are politics in FT's are just upset that they suck in FT's. So since thats the case I hope his old judging partner continues to take the lead on posting updates. Can I ask that someone reply to all his updates though, that way I can see them.....
> 
> 
> /Paul


Paul

What is it with you and all the sniping at FT? Jeez, give it a rest.
As for you and your feud with KG, give that a rest, too.

Lainee said that people were giving Mark crap, and that posed a distraction to him ...

Not that his dog would be judged differently

Ted


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## Klamath Hunting Gold (Nov 12, 2005)

Wow.... a third of the field is now gone.

On the bright side, I am doing pretty ok on the Pick ems!

PS.... 
my 10 week old little Quasi pup sez.... GO DADDY!


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## Arturo (Jan 10, 2004)

Three days with 459 post and 48000 views (and growing rapidly). How great is(was) that. The best coverage ever of a National and now it has all turned to bitchin' and moanin' because of a few allhoses. JMHO

What would Shayne do regards,
Arturo


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## Bryan McCulloch (Nov 3, 2007)

Marty Bullington said:


> What a shame Lainee! You were doing one hell of a job!
> 
> MB


Cherrs to that!Better than Y.B.S anyday!!!


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Lainee you did a great job wish it could have continued.
Now I want to know WHO it is that's doing the whining.


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## dixiedog (Jun 18, 2007)

JKL said:


> On another note, Creek Robber fans...3 whistle water blind.


GO AUGGIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## J. Torrey (Nov 11, 2007)

After I throw the first shift, I'll take some pictures of the 5th series and share them with you. I'll leave the judging to the judges. This has all the ingredients to be one of the best Nationals ever. Demanding tests, fair Judging, strategic handling and wonderful dog work. The cream will rise to the top as it should. Good Luck to everyone.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Thanks Jeff. I love your pix.

Thanks a lot. Seems like a good national under way.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> Paul
> 
> What is it with you and all the sniping at FT? Jeez, give it a rest.
> As for you and your feud with KG, give that a rest, too.
> ...


Just that this behavior is unacceptable. People doing this crap should be confronted with misconduct charges. To imply a threat now or in the future at someone or someone's pro's over reporting if dogs are called back, handled etc is unethical and in my opinion prejudicial to the sport. So is purposely confronting someone in the hopes to rattle or distract them while they prepare to run. To ignore this in my opinion is as bad as ignoring the judging issues that you are so passionate about. So if I choose to point it out in a sarcastic manner and that annoys you, well sir that is too bad. I find most of your arguments to be just as annoying. Please knock it off...

As for KG, I have no feud with him. I just noticed in some of the replies that he was posting some of these updates so we can all stay updated. Since he feels so strongly that politics don't exist I see no reason for him to quit posting the updates. Interestingly though I see in one of the replies that he has distanced himself from that and pushed that off squarely on Laniee's shoulders. How interesting is that?....

/Paul


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

A Internet lynch mob before you have all the facts is just as unsportsmanlike and prejudicial to the sport IMO.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> A Internet lynch mob before you have all the facts is just as unsportsmanlike and prejudicial to the sport IMO.


Paul

You hit the nail on the head - figuratively.

If I give you a hammer, would you hit it on the head literally?

Ted


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## thunderdan (Oct 14, 2003)

Paul Mocciaro said:


> AKC Video of Longshot Black Talon is not right , that is not her running that blind
> I will talk to the AKC video guy to fix it
> Thanks
> Paul



Good luck Paul....go get em....


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

The only thing that I did not put a lot of stock in is the 2nd-3rd-4th hand judging of hunts.
Handles are black and white - you either blew the whistle or you did not.

Hunts are very subjective. I don't put a lot of stock in second hand reports of hunts even at weekend trials. I let the judges do the judging.

JMHO


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Gerard Rozas said:


> The only thing that I did not put a lot of stock in is the 2nd-3rd-4th hand judging of hunts.
> Handles are black and white - you either blew the whistle or you did not.
> 
> Hunts are very subjective. I don't put a lot of stock in second hand reports of hunts even at weekend trials. I let the judges do the judging.
> ...


Very well said!


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

Tim West said:


> This sport of field trials is just bound and determined to stay in the 1930's. Maybe we should just run 70 yard marks and limit the National field to 26 dogs.
> 
> What other sport have you ever heard of that didn't keep score?
> 
> ...


Tim,

I'd pay more than a quarter for coverage!

Lainee, KG and Shayne,

Thank you for the coverage from the Nat'l. We really enjoyed it. Ann & Bob Heise


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

HiRollerlabs said:


> Tim,
> 
> I'd pay more than a quarter for coverage!
> 
> ...


I agree Bob and Ann.....I was really enjoying the coverage....I want to wish all the competitors good luck and I hope we still get the callbacks. Thank you Lainee, KG and Shayne for the updates.....all of us "outside the gallery" really enjoyed them!

Aaron


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> As for KG, I have no feud with him. I just noticed in some of the replies that he was posting some of these updates so we can all stay updated. Since he feels so strongly that politics don't exist I see no reason for him to quit posting the updates. Interestingly though I see in one of the replies that he has distanced himself from that and pushed that off squarely on Laniee's shoulders. How interesting is that?....
> /Paul


Keith is just being Keith - you have to excuse him for that - he just can't help himself!!!


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

> _As for KG, I have no feud with him. I just noticed in some of the replies that he was posting some of these updates so we can all stay updated. Since he feels so strongly that politics don't exist I see no reason for him to quit posting the updates. Interestingly though I see in one of the replies that he has distanced himself from that and pushed that off squarely on Laniee's shoulders. How interesting is that?...._


I wondered how long it would take you to twist my meaning to suit your own desperate need to berate.

Get a life, Paul.

kg


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## DuckManiac (May 10, 2004)

Now this really ticks me off. As you can see by my number of posts I don't get on here often. I thought the posting of the Natl info was great and I was checking for updates frequently. We have way too many whiners in this game. Thank you Lainnie and everyone that was posting updates.
Tony


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## Shawn Riggs (Oct 16, 2004)

JKL said:


> Something else to consider regarding the commentaries. Not all handlers see with open eyes. Some have "very rosy" glasses about their work and to have posted on the internet an adverse opinion could be upsetting. I think its called Sensitive Ego Syndrome.


On any given weekend if there are 10 different handlers going into the last series, 5 of those handlers are just happy there, the other 5 know they are in 1st place. The gallery, of course, has the real winner.


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## sinner (Oct 21, 2007)

I can't resist! 
I am very disappointed that RFT coverage has been reduced to who ran and who got called back. I have my lap top at the line and during breaks I was checking to see how well certain dogs had done. My job as a judge has been made a lot harder now. With no help from the gallery I'm not sure the three of us can come up with the "right" winner.
Please come back or just send me a private message to share with my co-judges.

SMILE IT IS THE CULTURE OF THE FT GAME!


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

AmiableLabs said:


> I agree with all the comments so far, but could there not be a compromise?
> 
> Howabout we post just who handled and who didn't without grading their performance?
> 
> Again, keeping it to the objective and avoiding the subjective.


This would be really, really great..


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

We MIGHT have a full-time reporter!

Keep your fingers crossed.

I am working on it now......


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Glenda Brown said:


> Someone asked about Dave Mosher's whistles---when he was in the holding blind while I was a marshal, I noted he was wearing the orange "The Answer" whistle produced by Lucky Dog.
> 
> The above is totally factual, contains no biased commentary, and if anyone wants to know what whistle anyone else is using, please give me a heads up.
> 
> Glenda


Thanks, Glenda ! ..good information to know. Sounded like his whistle was breaking up....but then, it sounded like wind was blowing, his back was to the camera....and perhaps the sound was not picking up that well on the recording. His dog certainly heard his whistles  ... 

Dave Mosher is incredibly generous here in Maine..with his grounds, time, equipment...and if one is in need of a bird he will open his freezer! 

Last time I saw him, he was scooping apples from under an apple tree on his property (with what appeared to be a grandson)..and, as always, had a wave and smile as my Goldens and I drove out. (.as we are unknown in this game..he is always gracious, anyway!) 

Nice to see him on line at the National..from afar! 

Judy


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

AmiableLabs said:


> We MIGHT have a full-time reporter!
> 
> Keep your fingers crossed.
> 
> I am working on it now......


Great news! Hope it works......fingers crossed in KS

Aaron


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Aaron Homburg said:


> Great news! Hope it works......fingers crossed in KS
> 
> Aaron


Same here


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## Anthony Heath (Jan 3, 2003)

To follow-up the earlier post of dogs dropped in the 4th, here are the names:

10 - FC Sandmans Ticket
22 - FC-AFC Windy City's Secret Signal (Cody)
27 - Penmarks Mighty Humvee
36 - FC-AFC Pure Labs Skys the Limit (Zeus)
37 - FC-AFC Jamestown's Perfect Ten (Bo)
39 - FC Pike of Castlebay (Pike)
56 - FC Hardscrabble's Mojo (MOJO)
64 - FC CK's Madam Goldie
80 - FC Timber Town Trifecta (Jill)
83 - FC-AFC Nebo Onyx Tornado (Twister)


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Does anyone have the list of handles and cleans thru the fourth?


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

J. Torrey said:


> After I throw the first shift, I'll take some pictures of the 5th series and share them with you. I'll leave the judging to the judges. This has all the ingredients to be one of the best Nationals ever. Demanding tests, fair Judging, strategic handling and wonderful dog work. The cream will rise to the top as it should. Good Luck to everyone.


 ...hoping to see photo of a particular "red dog" ! ..as in #7 ... ...

Great photos...many should be framed..by owners/breeder. 

Temps going up so ..possibly 60 today..so off to train on the way to our camp at the lake. Snow/rain coming in starting tomorrow AM  Will make your photos even more enjoyable..and updates, too. 

Again..thanks!!!


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## Arturo (Jan 10, 2004)

AmiableLabs said:


> We MIGHT have a full-time reporter!
> 
> Keep your fingers crossed.
> 
> I am working on it now......


You da man! At least you're trying to be.

Good Luck,
Arturo


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