# Boykin questions



## David Lo Buono (Apr 6, 2005)

I have a buddy who is looking into getting a boykin....what are some of the top producing kennels and who are proven sires out there?


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## Dave Mirek (Jan 23, 2007)

Brandywine creek, contact Phil Hinchman, great guy and fantastic dogs.


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## leemac (Dec 7, 2011)

If I was looking for a Boykin I would be looking for a breeding with Saint Thomas Chief as the sire. I'm pretty sure he was the second Boykin GrHRCH and the first MH.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

David Lo Buono said:


> I have a buddy who is looking into getting a boykin....what are some of the top producing kennels and who are proven sires out there?


Just Ducky Kennel - Pam Kadlac
Brandywine
Pocotaligo - Kim Parkman
Dovewood - Roy Thompson - health testing and has longevity in this breed and produces some nice healthy Boykins for hunters

Proven sires would be listed on any of those web sites. There are also some very nice studs amateur owned that are bred frequently and a number of other responsible breeders who perhaps only breed one or two litters annually. The number of health tested and field titled sires available is very small in comparison to availability in other sporting breeds. Majority of Boykins are placed in pet/hunting homes. 

Finding a pup from a responsible breeder who is performing required health testing is very important. Boykins still have a very high rate of hip dysplasia; minimum OFA hips, ACO eye clearances, OFA cardiac, and DNA tested for Exercise Induced Collapse (EIC). There are also allergies epilepsy, patella, and thyroid issues.


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## Pigpen (Nov 23, 2008)

frontier said:


> Finding a pup from a responsible breeder who is performing required health testing is very important. Boykins still have a very high rate of hip dysplasia; minimum OFA hips, ACO eye clearances, OFA cardiac, and DNA tested for Exercise Induced Collapse (EIC). There are also allergies epilepsy, patella, and thyroid issues.


This.......


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## birdboy (Feb 9, 2009)

David Lo Buono said:


> I have a buddy who is looking into getting a boykin....


The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem


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## Bob Mac (Feb 28, 2012)

Phil Hinchman at Brandywines. Check out his web site.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

birdboy said:


> The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem


Classic......;-)


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

What is your friends intentions with the dog and his reason for wanting a boykin? He should do his homework. And it will be more than just asking a question on a forum "which kennels are top producing". That's not a dig at you, just need to be more specific. It's not like lab kennels in which folks could name lots of kennels and/or individuals to point you in the right direction. The #'s just aren't there like with Labs. What's top producing? Sheer #'s of litters. There are a few that brag on #'s of puppies born per year that wouldn't be worth talking to. But there are a few out there and a few individuals doing their work to produce healthy, and very sporty boykins. Finding a puppy isn't really as hard as figuring out how you gonna get it to do what you want it to do. 

For a lot of info on boykins, health, breeding and titled dogs look at this link- http://www.boykinspaniel.com

Theres only been 50 something HRCH boykins in the world. Heres the list. http://www.boykinspaniel.com/HRCtitles.html

research the owners of those dogs, find out who trained them, how it went, and start there. 

Come to the National field trial in April and camp out at the Open stake and watch dogs. There will be some great boykins there doing big dog work. talk to some of the owners/handlers (just don't bother them while they're getting ready to run).

and when you find some studs you like and bitches you like. Go to the OFFA website and type in their dogs name and see what it turns up.
http://www.offa.org


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

A friend of mine has a puppy sired by Saint Thomas Chief. Outstanding dog.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

I'd talk with Mike on this forum. He probably hasn't noticed this post yet or would have chimed in.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

you should call or pm my friend butch herb, bamastripes on rtf. according to me, his boykin stoney is the best boykin in the world.(boykin specific field trial-2011-1st, 2012-4th, 2013 1st. 500 hrc points. mh) if stoney is being bred, it will be to a nice bitch and your friend should get one.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Breck said:


> I'd talk with Mike on this forum. He probably hasn't noticed this post yet or would have chimed in.


Ta, Breck - but folks far more attuned to and accomplished with Boykins than I already have given guidance here. Top of the list: Do your homework with those who have hands' on experience with the breed - and don't go with a Boykin










based on what somebody else may have read or heard about them.

MG


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

crackerd said:


> Ta, Breck - but folks far more attuned to and accomplished with Boykins than I already have given guidance here. Top of the list: Do your homework with those who have hands' on experience with the breed - and don't go with a Boykin
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why is the book open to the Cocker instead of the Boykin Spaniel


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

frontier said:


> Why is the book open to the Cocker instead of the Boykin Spaniel


Now, Terrie, how do you know that ain't a black Boykin?

Actually a friend gave me that book over the weekend and I didn't have time to see if it even included Boykins. That omission would make it seriously out of date *in my book*...

Funny coincidence that it just happened to crack open to the photo of a cocker - though it does at least look like a _*fb*_ cocker, eh? (Still haven't had a chance to look at the book, so just going by appearances, which can be deceiving. But no deceiving on Boykins: They only come in one color and one mode - chocolate/liver working gundog.)

MG


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

frontier said:


> Why is the book open to the Cocker instead of the Boykin Spaniel


And actually, upon closer review, it could be a field spaniel - the one spaniel construct that originated 150 years ago to win dog shows (and came in black-only), but has moved away from its show roots somewhat and gotten afield maybe more than ever, and in colors other than black to boot.

MG


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

birdboy said:


> The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem


We need to talk to Chris about getting a like button added to this forum.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

One of the 'Few' I haven't had the pleasure of. 
I embarked on a potential program with the Boykin last year after a few years contemplating what to do with such a thing that does all.?....Over here.
Finances,time,work.life etc and the fact that ..There ain't nothing over here to 'stock from' kinda stopped me in my tracks. Following good advice on here There was potentially an avenue that would suit!..Turns out , I would be better moving to the sunshine state and be with the Boykin , than the Boykin with me 

Sure looks and sounds like an all or nothing kinda dog!


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

frontier said:


> Just Ducky Kennel - Pam Kadlac
> Brandywine
> Pocotaligo - Kim Parkman
> Dovewood - Roy Thompson - health testing and has longevity in this breed and produces some nice healthy Boykins for hunters
> ...



This^^^ Plus do all the research you can. They are great little dogs if your looking for a pocket retriever or flusher. Also you don't have to go to the "Top producing kennel". Like Terri said there are some great dogs bred by amateurs all the time. Just to your homework and make sure your dog has the proper health clearances.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

birdboy said:


> The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem


Bwahahahaha



David McLendon said:


> We need to talk to Chris about getting a like button added to this forum.


Fa real......


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## Cass (Sep 17, 2013)

frontier said:


> Why is the book open to the Cocker instead of the Boykin Spaniel


Because every boykin wishes they could be one.


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Chris Rosier said:


> Bwahahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> Fa real......


shut up rosier. Go crappie fishing with your net dragger.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

blainet said:


> shut up rosier. Go crappie fishing with your net dragger.


....... :like:


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

leemac said:


> If I was looking for a Boykin I would be looking for a breeding with Saint Thomas Chief as the sire. I'm pretty sure he was the second Boykin GrHRCH and the first MH.



He has a MHR (Master Hunter Retriever). Chief does not have a MH yet.


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

To clarify my post above. Spaniels get a MH for Spaniel (Upland)tests and a MHR for Retriever tests. Retrievers get a MH for Retriever tests and a MHU for Spaniel tests. Boykins and America Water Spaniels (which are classified by AKC as Spaniels) are eligible to run in AKC Retriever hunt tests. Labs, Goldens, Flat Coats, Curleys, and Irish Water Spaniels, which are classified as Retrievers are also eligible to run in AKC Spaniel (Upland) hunt tests. The difference in in the titles. JH, SH, MH for Spaniels passing Spaniel tests; JHU, SHU, MHU for Retrievers titling in Spaniel hunt tests. JH, SH, MH for Retrievers titling in Retriever hunt tests; JHR, SHR,MHR for Spaniels titling in Retriever hunt tests.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

David McCracken said:


> He has a MHR (Master Hunter Retriever). Chief does not have a MH yet.


Don't know him, his owner or anyone involved... But Hunting lab pedigree shows he has GRHRCH UH and MH

Notes say he went 6/6 in AKC master retriever tests. Was 2012 MN Qualifier.


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

roseberry said:


> you should call or pm my friend butch herb, bamastripes on rtf. according to me, his boykin stoney is the best boykin in the world.(boykin specific field trial-2011-1st, 2012-4th, 2013 1st. 500 hrc points. mh) if stoney is being bred, it will be to a nice bitch and your friend should get one.


Stoney is a great dog, but you'd better check Chief's record. Chief has over 2000 HRC points and is a GRHRCH. However, neither Stoney nor Chief have a MH. They both have MHR's. A MH for a Spaniel is earned in a Spaniel test (Upland flushing). When a Spaniel titles in an AKC Retriever test, it is a MHR (Master Hunter Retriever). I know that's splitting hairs, but folks might as well get the titles right.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

David McCracken said:


> ...better check Chief's record. Chief has over 2000 HRC points and is a GRHRCH. However, neither Stoney nor Chief have a MH. They both have MHR's. A MH for a Spaniel is earned in a Spaniel test (Upland flushing). When a Spaniel titles in an AKC Retriever test, it is a MHR (Master Hunter Retriever). I know that's splitting hairs, but folks might as well get the titles right.


Dave, just what are you professing, or a professor _*of*_, in this case? A dog has to have earned the Master Hunter title to qualify for the Master National in the first place. Or is there a Master National for Spaniels? - or a "Rare Breed" Master National? - don't think so. Chief got there the old fashioned way - by running with and agin' the big dogs.

MG


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

isn't it just different verbiage to differentiate that a boykin spaniel passed master hunter tests for retrievers in an akc test. Yes Chief has the same title from AKC hunt tests that the labs do, just a different Acronym at the end of his name.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

BlaineT said:


> isn't it just different verbiage to differentiate that a boykin spaniel passed master hunter tests for retrievers in an akc test. Yes Chief has the same title from AKC hunt tests that the labs do, just a different Acronym at the end of his name.


Exactly. As David has ALREADY explained about 3 different times.......


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Chris Rosier said:


> Exactly. As David has ALREADY explained about 3 different times.......


He may have explained right "about 3 different times," but he stated (and restated) _*way wrong*_ re Chief's AKC accomplishment. http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/boykin/pedigree.asp?id=2

MG


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## luvmylabs23139 (Jun 4, 2005)

What is family life like with a Boykin compared to a well bred Lab be the lab either field or show as we share our lives with both.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

Look dude, I've watched Chief run, judged him, trained with him, all that jazz. I know he's a damn nice dog, David knows this as well. Nobody here can help you understand what we're trying to say if you don't understand the difference in the MH and MHR titles. Sorry.


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

As already stated. MH for Lab and MHR for a Boykin are the same thing. MH for a Boykin is in the spaniel test. It's really not that hard to understand. They just do it that way because the Boykin is not considered a retriever.


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

It can be kinda confusing but yes Chief has the same title going 6 for 6 for his MHR title which is exactly the same as MH for a Lab. He ran and qualified at the Master Nationals in Demopolis, Al in 2012 right beside a lot of his lab buddies. Planning on putting a MH title on Chief this weekend in order to minimize the confusion, he'll have both MH and MHR titles. Hope to see some of you there, David appreciate you explaining things and see you Friday.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

David McCracken said:


> Stoney is a great dog, but you'd better check Chief's record. Chief has over 2000 HRC points (against a testing standard) and is a GRHRCH (against a testing standard). However, neither Stoney nor Chief have a MH.


david,

i must admit my knowledge of spaniels is limited. whether aws, boykin, field cocker, brittany(don't know if i even spelled that right?) or any other..........i don't know jack doo doo.

when i said stoney is the "best in the world", i also noted that statement was "according to me". the record i sited initially was stoney's performance in the "boykin breed specific field trial". i have been led to understand this breed specific field trial is a "competition" and a winner is awarded at its conclusion once per year. since stoney has *won* two of the last three annual *competitions* in my simple mind i just figured he is "the best". 

for all i know "chief" may not have even entered these field trials or he may have won the three before stoney? i'm not a spaniel guy so i don't rightly know. i did site stoney getting the mnh/mh or whatever and at least 500 hrc points (which are both against a standard) as additional support for my uneducated opinion of his prowess. it is quite impressive that chief has a big ol' bunch of points as well.

i will add that stoney has one extremely notable accomplishment that chief is likely never to attain. stoney is the reigning *2013 NAHRC DOG OF THE YEAR*. the traveling "puhl doo" or "coot" trophy will be on butch's mantle until our hunt test in a couple of weeks. :razz:

jmc


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

Guys, please don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking or endorsing any dog. As the owner/handler of a Spaniel (AWS) who runs in both Spaniel and Retriever games, I run into these confusing title misconceptions all the time. Never a test goes by when someone doesn't ask me what my dog's titles mean. So, I'll try to explain this ONE more time.
Just about every sporting breed of dog is classified by AKC in some way. Boykins, American Water Spaniels, Springers, Clumbers, etc are all classified by AKC as "Spaniels". Labrador Retrievers, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, Flat Coat Retrievers, Irish Water Spaniels, Curly Coat Retrievers, Nova Scotia Duck Tollers, Poodles, etc are all classified as "Retrievers". English Pointers, English Setters, Irish Setters, German Short Hair Pointers, Brittiany's, etc are all classified as "Pointers". Each classification has a test designed by AKC for that class. Spaniels have AKC Spaniel hunt tests. Retrievers have AKC Retriever hunt tests. The same goes for the pointing breeds. The titles awarded that particular breeds accomplishments are JH, SH, and MH. Therefore, a Boykin, or any other breed classified as a Spaniel, that qualifies the appropriate number of times earns a JH, SH, or MH. A Lab, or any other breed that AKC classifies as a Retriever, that qualifies the appropriate number of times earns a JH, SH, or MH. Same for the pointers.
Recently, the AKC realized that certain breeds were capable of competing outside of their classification. For example, AWS, Boykin's, Barbets, GSP's, GWP's, and some others were allowed by AKC to run in the Retriever hunt tests. If a Spaniel who had already earned a JH, SH, or MH in their Spaniel tests then a JH, SH, or MH in the Retriever test, how would anyone know which title meant what? So, when a Spaniel earns a Retriever title, that title is succeeded with the letter "R", therefore JHR, SHR, or MHR.
On the flip side of the coin, AKC now allows some breeds classified as Retrievers to cross over and run in the Spaniel hunt tests. These Retriever breeds are Labs, Goldens, Flat Coats, and Curley Coats and Irish Water Spaniels. Suppose a Master Hunter Retriever qualifies for a Master Hunter Spaniel title? It would be even more confusing for that dog to have a MH MH behind his name, so, to make things clearer as to which title he has, a Retriever earning a title for Spaniel tests is JHU, SHU, or MHU, the "U" being for Upland.
I don't think I can explain this confusing issue any clearer than this.


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## AWSUE (Aug 10, 2010)

To confuse the issue even further......the North American Hunting Retriever Association (NAHRA) issues a MHR title that is placed in front of a dog's name. My American Water Spaniels are MHR Justin MHR and MHR Gator MHR (along with their other titles).


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

Sue's boys are legit. And fun to watch run as well!

Sue, what's the waiting time on getting a pup sired by your boys? Pm me if you have any really really nice breeding a coming up.


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

John, glad to see you give the Boykins their just due, kicking all the Labs ass up in NAHRC is no small feat!!!


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## AWSUE (Aug 10, 2010)

TroyFeeken said:


> Sue's boys are legit. And fun to watch run as well!
> 
> Sue, what's the waiting time on getting a pup sired by your boys? Pm me if you have any really really nice breeding a coming up.


Thanks Troy. Check for a PM and then email me.


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

roseberry said:


> david,
> 
> i must admit my knowledge of spaniels is limited. whether aws, boykin, field cocker, brittany(don't know if i even spelled that right?) or any other..........i don't know jack doo doo.
> 
> ...


It's hard to say any dog is "The Best". Just like you really cant say any football player or baseball player is the best. It's subjective, what you may like in a dog I may not. My dog would probably smoke most of the dogs in the BSS Trials but we will never get a chance to try. His breeders are affiliated with AKC and they did not register the litter with the BSS. Due to the politics between the Boykin Spaniel Society and the Boykin Spaniel Breeders Association I cannot go back and register him with the BSS like you can with UKC and AKC. 

So even though my dog is a registered Boykin Spaniel with the UKC and AKC and all of his lineage/pedigree comes out of the BSS we can't run in the BSS trails. Which makes it even harder to say that any dog is the best since some of their peers who may even be more talented can't compete.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Esylivin said:


> John, glad to see you give the Boykins their just due, kicking all the Labs ass up in NAHRC is no small feat!!!


esy,
our team of experts give this award to the most deserving team. it is a totaly objective, non-discriminatory, merit based selection process. stoney was tops for us last year! for a mere $35/year and a training day attendance, you and chief will be automatically entered for 2014 too!:razz:

but now, if kickin' my lab's asses is the only way a person can find happiness........life may be long and sad!;-)


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

John, Thanks for the invite I'll take you up on it. BTW kicking Lab's butts is not the only way but it is a lot of fun. We do not descriminate we like to kick all retriever's butts. Hope to see you at a test or club event soon. 

BTW Stoney and Chief will again be competing head to head April 10 at the Nationals in Boykin SC. We are going back to the family grounds of the developer of the Boykin Breed (Whit Boykin). Lots of History. Butch and I are great friends and love this competition, I feel it makes each of us better along with our dogs. Anyone interested, the details are on the BSS website http://www.boykinspaniel.org/. Come out and enjoy a great weekend with the family, plenty of other events to do with your dog.


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

Huck, sorry you got caught up in the politics of the Boykin entities. I think the attitudes are changing. We have a lot of communication between the two now. I'm a long time member of the BSS and work on the Hunt Test Committee, I also serve on the BOD of the BSCBAA. We have come a long way in that the AKC now recognizes the Boykin as a versatile breed allowing them to compete in both spaniel and retriever hunt tests. We are working for acceptance in Field Trials, starting with Spaniels. Hopefully one day they will blend into one entity where all are focused together on the betterment of the breed. Good thing is we still have plenty of venues and opportunities to show off this amazing breed. Hope to see you at an event in the future.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Esylivin


Rebel was sired by your boy. Rebel continues to show his best and many would like a Boykin like him. At a recent big training day Rebel got a standing ovation from each gun station at a training session upon completing a triple (land, land-water land, and a land-water with extreme angle entry).

I hope to see Chief one day. Frank and I did want to come South.


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Esylivin said:


> John, Thanks for the invite I'll take you up on it. BTW kicking Lab's butts is not the only way but it is a lot of fun. We do not descriminate we like to kick all retriever's butts. Hope to see you at a test or club event soon.
> 
> BTW Stoney and Chief will again be competing head to head April 10 at the Nationals in Boykin SC. We are going back to the family grounds of the developer of the Boykin Breed (Whit Boykin). Lots of History. Butch and I are great friends and love this competition, I feel it makes each of us better along with our dogs. Anyone interested, the details are on the BSS website http://www.boykinspaniel.org/. Come out and enjoy a great weekend with the family, plenty of other events to do with your dog.


Butch IS good people. And stoney is a great dog. So is chief. Can't wait to compete against them all. Fun weekend for sure. Lots of really nice boykins. It's a shame that all won't be there.


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

If everyone on this thread is confused by when a dog has a MH versus a MHR, don't feel bad, the folks at the Performance Events of AKC don't know either. When my AWS earned his Senior Hunter Retriever (SHR) title, AKC sent me a certificate for a Senior Hunter. I called and explained that he had never run in a Senior test, we went straight to Master in the Spaniel. Finally I got hold to someone who knew something and she straightened things out. She did explain that AKC's computers were not set up to record the "crossover" dog's passes and they had to be entered by hand. Since then, every Master Retriever test that we've passed, I've had to call AKC to make sure they had entered them correctly.
A friend whose Boykin got her JHR had the same problem, receiving a JH Title Certificate. If you have a Retriever that you are running in the Spaniel tests, I would double check with AKC on those titles as well.


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

gdgnyc, looking forward to meeting you and seeing Frank and Rebel again. Let me know when you head this way.


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## Pigpen (Nov 23, 2008)

I've got a nice litter that'll be ready soon.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

I want the one what's hangin upside down. Looks like he's got a lot of go.


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## Pigpen (Nov 23, 2008)

Chris Rosier said:


> I want the one what's hangin upside down. Looks like he's got a lot of go.


Sorry Chris, but my point Josef has already put a deposit on that one.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

How bout the one in the corner climbing up the side?


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## Pigpen (Nov 23, 2008)

Point Rosier, bring your deposit to CF. The wall climber is yours.


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## Cass (Sep 17, 2013)

Bottom left for me. Looks like a proper "english" possum, not all high strung like those others....


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

How are the hips, and elbows? Who they out of?


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## Lonnie Spann (May 14, 2012)

Boykin? I owned one (1) and my firsthand experience was as follows:

1. Bought a very well bred specimen from one of the kennels listed above;

2.Would have been easier to FF a wolf and would have been bitten less;

3. Could handle zero pressure;

4. Was like dealing with a woman PMSing EVERY day;

5. Found her a new home and I have never looked back.

I would rather have another root canal than to have another Boykin! Guess I'm a little too rough around the edges to be a Boykin owner.

Lonnie Spann


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

Lonnie Spann said:


> Boykin? I owned one (1) and my firsthand experience was as follows:
> 
> 1. Bought a very well bred specimen from one of the kennels listed above;
> 
> ...



Haha!! Sounds like that little brown dog got the best of you. It's ok though not everyone is cut out to own and train a Boykin. There a lot smarter than Labs you cant just force your way through it you actually have to know dogs. Better luck next time.


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Lonnie Spann said:


> Boykin? I owned one (1) and my firsthand experience was as follows:
> 
> 1. Bought a very well bred specimen from one of the kennels listed above;
> 
> ...


I've ff'd 2 that were more like ff'ing squirrels. but the others weren't bad at all. but even the ones that were crazy during ff turned out pretty good.

most all the one's I've dealt with handled pressure and correction well (just differently).

the aint for everyone though. ill probably never be without one or 3.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

wow................


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Lonnie Spann said:


> Boykin? I owned one (1) and my firsthand experience was as follows:
> 
> 1. Bought a very well bred specimen from one of the kennels listed above;
> 
> ...


It's all right now, Lonnie, you've manned, er Boykin'd up - and help is on the way. We're getting you into 12-step gentleman's gundog rehab and putting you with a butler's Boykin. One day at a time, you'll never look back, and you'll never need to look anywhere else for service -










- or service delivery.

And as the good folks in white coats are bound to instill in you at gentleman's gundog rehab: Always remember your people skills with a Boykin: It's all in the eyes - 










and eye contact - in no time, hypnosis will have a Boykin getting *you* through force fetch with the greatest of ease.

MG

PS Professor (Dave), belated apology for skunking you on the AKC spaniel titles. Sorry 'bout that.


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## Cass (Sep 17, 2013)

LOL go get yourself a cocker if you want to see pressure handled poorly hahahaha. Nothing that can't be worked through though.


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