# Who is the Best Field Trial Potential Stud Out there Right Now?



## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

In Your Opinion... Who is the Best Available Field Trial Stud??

Sure Lean Mac was something special but today is a new day. So 
who do you think is the best Sire to choose from today and why?

Thanks for your input!


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## Orion Labradors (Sep 12, 2010)

FC-AFC Cody Cut A Lean Grade and FC-AFC Land Ahoy are outstanding field trial studs.

As in any breeding, the male and female have to be genetically compatible to produce outstanding offspring.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

at this years National Amateur the sire with the most dogs entered was FC Fargo II with 14 progeny, followed by FC AFC Haweye's Candlewood Shadow with 5 dogs....IMHO I am looking for a dog with FC AFC Webshires Honest Abe in the last couple of generations..

but as most will agree we can discuss stud dogs till we are all blue in the face,you still have to have a quality female to breed him to....


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

You're kidding right??? 

Wish I had 2 lines to answer your question.... Selecting appropriate studs is so easy....

RTF doesn't have the room to give you a honest response. IMHO....

Angie


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## Gawthorpe (Oct 4, 2007)

Newbie alert


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Gawthorpe said:


> Newbie alert


Yes indeedie.... LOL

Angie


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## MAGIC (May 27, 2008)

I agree with Orion,, Grady and Pirate.... And Maxxs surprise


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Okay,,, 

Let's do this. If you have an opinion you have to post why you think, Grady, Pirate, Prize, Tiger, Patton,,, blah, blah, blah.. Is the best stud right now... 

I/you can read entryexpress as well as anyone....

Angie


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Of course, he's asking for opinions, and I have one: the most proven, relatively young sire today is Chopper. There are other younger dogs with a few derby and qualifying skins on the wall, but nothing like Chopper. Be warned, though. I've seen many manageable Chopper pups, but the one I had was a beast with a capital B. Bull in a china shop was an understatement. She was nice around the house, though, and she was very talented.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

If I knew the answer to that question- WHY IN THE WIDE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS WOULD I TELL YOU???????

I do however have a deal on some land in Arizona that promises to be beachfront soon regards

Bubba


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

With absolutely all due respect to Grady, the quality level of the bitches that Grady has been bred to will surely help his status as a sire.

Nothing more to add than that.

Travis


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

I hear shayne mehringer in Texas is quite the ladies man.
There's always gooser also!


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

The best stud for what bitch? To cross on what lines?


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Gawthorpe said:


> Newbie alert


are you sure?

the directness of the post reeks of familiarity and a total newbie with 1 post, this the first obviously.

sum it up and to me it equals T R O L L from a regular who wants to remain anonymous.


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## Bushmills (Sep 26, 2010)

Greenacres Dooley WC JH with all the potential in the world to become one of the finest field trial dogs ever......18 month yellow Lab.


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## rolando_cornelio (Jun 28, 2007)

Chopper has had a couple pups under the age of 3 with AA wins and now has a few with FC or AFC titles at the age of 3. And has a few qualifed for the national at a young age!


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## ohohjoe (Mar 20, 2010)

Land Ahoy pirate is the man


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## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

david gibson said:


> are you sure?
> 
> the directness of the post reeks of familiarity and a total newbie with 1 post, this the first obviously.
> 
> sum it up and to me it equals T R O L L from a regular who wants to remain anonymous.


No sir! That is impossible. It is eagle legle to have more than one identity here. Just ask the janitor


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## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

Charles C. said:


> Of course, he's asking for opinions, and I have one: the most proven, relatively young sire today is Chopper. There are other younger dogs with a few derby and qualifying skins on the wall, but nothing like Chopper. Be warned, though. I've seen many manageable Chopper pups, but the one I had was a beast with a capital B. Bull in a china shop was an understatement. She was nice around the house, though, and she was very talented.



I have a Chopper pup and she is awesome! Very intelligent, lots of drive, and great looking. Just trying to figure out who she is best compatible with. Not for puppy selling purposes however, simply to produce the best field trial prospects possible. She is out of Chopper and a FC Mcbunn bitch. Thanks for your reply.


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## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

Orion Labradors said:


> FC-AFC Cody Cut A Lean Grade and FC-AFC Land Ahoy are outstanding field trial studs.
> 
> As in any breeding, the male and female have to be genetically compatible to produce outstanding offspring.


I have been thinking along your same lines. There are a ton of great dogs out 
there to choose from however and I don't know near as much as most of you do. So your opinions really do help. I have been thinking about leaning toward Grady. He seems to be throwing some good producers on the derby list.


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## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

Gawthorpe said:


> Newbie alert


Yes I am new at this amazing game. For those that are leaving advice and helpful information thank you so much. Your knowledge really does help us newbies a ton!


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## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

Sharon Potter said:


> The best stud for what bitch? To cross on what lines?


My dog is out of Chopper and a FC Mcbunn Bitch.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

motown said:


> I have a Chopper pup and she is awesome! Very intelligent, lots of drive, and great looking. Just trying to figure out who she is best compatible with. Not for puppy selling purposes however, simply to produce the best field trial prospects possible.* She is out of Chopper and a FC Mcbunn bitch.* Thanks for your reply.


Your dog is almost a version of the Wood River's Coolwater ( Hank), he is a good looking boy who was recently purchased by Mike Molthan...with the Chopper/ Maggie McBunn bloodline are you looking for a linebred dog or are you looking to outcross in a different direction...on paper you should have a marking fool and I am guessing a larger but good looking dog


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## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

BonMallari said:


> Your dog is almost a version of the Wood River's Coolwater ( Hank), he is a good looking boy who was recently purchased by Mike Molthan...with the Chopper/ Maggie McBunn bloodline are you looking for a linebred dog or are you looking to outcross in a different direction...on paper you should have a marking fool and I am guessing a larger but good looking dog


Yes you are right on target. She is an outstanding marker she is 70lbs of solid muscle, tall slender build. Good looking girl. Just looking for thoughts on which way to breed. First time breeding so just doing my home. Been leaning toward line breeding but am open to hearing thoughts for otherwise. What are your thoughts about Grady?


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

motown said:


> Yes you are right on target. She is an outstanding marker she is 70lbs of solid muscle, tall slender build. Good looking girl. Just looking for thoughts on which way to breed. First time breeding so just doing my home. Been leaning toward line breeding but am open to hearing thoughts for otherwise. What are your thoughts about Grady?



Grady is a proven stud...no doubt about that...but for your particular needs you already have that bloodline on both sides of the equation with the McBunn connections...not so sure you are bringing anything new to the table by using Grady...can't and won't just pull a name out of my hat, but for my $.02 I would be looking for a little outcross


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

motown said:


> My dog is out of Chopper and a FC Mcbunn Bitch.


well may as well straighten you out now

your dog is "out of a bitch" and "by a stud"

therefore your dog is by Chopper out of an FC bitch


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

EdA said:


> well may as well straighten you out now
> 
> your dog is "out of a bitch" and "by a stud"
> 
> therefore your dog is by Chopper out of an FC bitch



We think alike Ed ;-)


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

EdA said:


> therefore your dog is by Chopper *out of an FC bitch*


I'm not sure that I would take what he wrote to mean that his bitch is out of an FC bitch or not.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Buzz said:


> I'm not sure that I would take what he wrote to mean that his bitch is out of an FC bitch or not.


maybe it's out of a bitch who was out of an FC bitch.....


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

motown said:


> I have been thinking about leaning toward Grady. He seems to be throwing some good producers on the derby list.


Just to pile on about incorrect lingo: Grady is, indeed turning out to be a good producer himself especially since he's still relatively young. But it's incorrect to call his get "good producers" since few are old enough to have produced offspring, let alone titled offspring. No dog currently on the derby list could be called a producer, no matter how many ribbons they've earned, as Labs aren't typically bred before they're two. 

Sign me: another RTF member that cringes to hear "out of" a sire!


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## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

EdA said:


> maybe it's out of a bitch who was out of an FC bitch.....


Yes you were correct. My dog is from Chopper, out of a FC Mcbunn bitch.

Thanks for the correction... lol


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

motown said:


> Yes you were correct. My dog is from Chopper, out of a FC Mcbunn bitch.
> 
> Thanks for the correction... lol



Who is the bitch? Does she have a name?


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## motown (Sep 28, 2010)

Buzz said:


> Who is the bitch? Does she have a name?


FC MAD RIVER'S MAGGIE MCBUNN


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

motown said:


> FC MAD RIVER'S MAGGIE MCBUNN


then you have the littermate to Hank ?...because that litter sold for big $$$ and were placed accordingly


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## Brandon Bromley (Dec 21, 2006)

Curious why you wouldn't mention Maggie? Maggie has at least 58 AA points and is a National Finalist. A very nice bitch to say the least. I have a littermate to your dog. I bred her to FC Candlewood's Man in Black. So far those pups have been exceptionally nice. PM your number and I can give you references if you'd like.


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## Brandon Bromley (Dec 21, 2006)

BonMallari said:


> but for your particular needs you already have that bloodline on both sides of the equation with the McBunn connections...not so sure you are bringing anything new to the table by using Grady




Please explain....


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Brandon Bromley said:


> Please explain....


that is not a knock on Grady but if you look at Grady's bloodline and Maggie's bloodline its all LM, Maggie on her own has an impressive pedigree...the Chopper x Maggie McBunn breeding was a great match,if the OP has a littermate to Hank, he has himself potentially one heck of a dog..I threw birds for Hank for two days while he was on Remien's truck..Hank won this spring and I think has qualified for the '11 NARC, I think he is only four and he is one great looking male dog


most people (including myself at times ) just throw out studs names without looking at who the female is.... most of the dogs already mentioned in this thread are proven producers, but matching up dogs with very similar lines isnt always a good thing...


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

motown said:


> Yes you were correct. My dog is from Chopper, out of a FC Mcbunn bitch.
> 
> Thanks for the correction... lol


*Motown I don't know if your looking for the Stud with the most potential or the one that might cross well with your female? I guess I would look at what has crossed well with Chopper. Chopper's most successful litter to date arguably would be the cross with Scamp. From that litter came 4 dogs to date with AA wins and I believe that two have titled. I happen to know two of Scamp's brothers very well  If your interested gimme a pm or call.

Helpful Regards,

Aaron*


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## Alan Sandifer (Oct 17, 2007)

Ahhhhhhhhhhh heck (I) still like FORD !


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## Bayou Magic (Feb 7, 2004)

Copiah Creek said:


> Ahhhhhhhhhhh heck (I) still like FORD !


Homie.

fp


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2010)

motown said:


> My dog is from Chopper


Your dog is *by* Chopper. We'll try and be patient with you. ;-)


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> Your dog is *by* Chopper. We'll try and be patient with you. ;-)


And I know how patience is your strong suit.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2010)

Howard, you are so...so...so...right. <sigh>


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## Purpledawg (Jul 16, 2006)

how about in goldens, or chessie's a top producing stud?


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Purpledawg said:


> how about in goldens, or chessie's a top producing stud?



I would start a new thread if you really are interested in getting replies to that question...


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## Tarball (Aug 12, 2010)

Actually...............I am ready to pick up a Rough puppy. The bitch is one that Bill Fabian had a hand in breeding. I like his history of dog training and selection. I had Rough out of the truck and compared disposition with he and two of his half brothers.........both were very similiar in dispostion to him. I watched him run at several trials. Liked what I saw. The littler was clear for all the major health items...........so, liked the bitch a lot, Roughs success and disposition of litter mates and half sibs was similiar, and both parents were clear of all health issues.................I had the breeder pick the pup. He sees them every day, and I trust him.


Crap shoot? Sure....they all are.........but now you know my process.

I hope you appreciate a thoughtful answer.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Charles C. said:


> Of course, he's asking for opinions, and I have one: the most proven, relatively young sire today is Chopper.


You are correct. Chopper had the most progeny on the last Derby List published in RFTN. He will probably still have the most on the next published list. 

I have not heard of any recent Chopper breedings. Anybody know? Perhaps Frank's move to Alaska put a damper on using Chopper.

My avatar is Chopper's half-sister AFC Flyway's Ruby B. Gonia. Chopper and Ruby have the same sire, Carbon, who was the son of Cosmo and grandson of Harley (FC/AFC Wilderness Harley To Go). 

As Bon knows, Cosmo was Abe's half brother -- both Cosmo and Abe were sired by Harley who was the sire of 51 field titled dogs including NFC, NAFC, CNFC and CNAFC. Harley was admitted into the Hall of Fame in 2003. 

As far as a stud dog still living who is a proven producer, my choice is FC/AFC Wood River's Franchise (Shaq). His pedigree look's like the Who's Who of field trial fame. Shaq's grandsire is Abe on his paternal side, thus Shaq has Harley.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

WHO IS THE BEST FIELD TRIAL POTENTIAL STUD OUT THERE RIGHT NOW? was the question.

I am assuming that this means who is the new, upcoming stud dog being used a lot who has produced "something". 

On another thread similar to this one, Bon recommended that the person study the Derby lists to see who is currently producing and to look at older lists to see whose pups were on it a year ago or maybe two years ago. 

The last Derby List was published in the July 2010 issue of Retriever News. More current information on dogs with Derby points is on FindRetrievers.com.

I study the Derby list -- and note also the dam. Often one breeding will really click and there will be more than one dog on the Derby list from the same litter. Remember: the bitch and her line is equally as important as the stud dog. 

Chopper has the most on the July list (bred to a lot of different bitches). However, Chopper is a bit older than some of the other sires on that list so I don't think he can be considered to be a "potential" stud dog. He has proven he is a producer. A year from now, if Chopper's breeding hey-day is on the wane, fewer Chopper pups will be on next year's list. 

Runner up on the July list was Fargo (deceased). Fargo consistently has had pups on past Derby lists. A year from now, you might not see any Fargo pups on the list. Fargo doesn't belong to the "potential" category. He was a proven producer. 

Back to the question ... I guess we need to consider younger dogs who people are starting to breed to so some evaluation can be made of them as "potential" producers. I think it is too soon to say they are proven producers (if getting on the Derby list is a criteria for being a proven producer.) 

Grady is a young dog so it may be too soon to tell his production record. He had 3 on the July Derby list. He will probably have more on the next list. The more he is bred to good bitches, the more good puppies there will be, which means there will be more chances to have his pups on the Derby list.

Same with Pirate who had 1 on the July Derby list. Pirate apparently is being bred to a lot. (Whatever "a lot" means.) Pirate will probably have more on the next Derby list. Some might be chocolate. Pirate throws chocolate and Gary told me he has had a lot of breedings to chocolate bitches. 

The more a stud dogs is used, the more chances there are to have their pups on the Derby list. It's sort of a Catch 22. To get bred to more, stud dogs have to have produced pups on the Derby list. (Bon thinks so, I agree.)

Time will tell if Grady or Pirate will be considered proven producers. Where those pups went and what their owners did with them will tell the tale. 

Just my 2-cents as I study Derby lists along with pedigrees as I want to know WHERE the talent came from. Never forget the bitch line and how important that is in producing Derby dogs. 

Helen


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2010)

helencalif said:


> WHO IS THE BEST FIELD TRIAL POTENTIAL STUD OUT THERE RIGHT NOW? was the question.
> 
> *I am assuming that this means who is the new, upcoming stud dog being used a lot who has produced "something".
> *
> On another thread similar to this one, Bon recommended that the person study the Derby lists to see who is currently producing and to look at older lists to see whose pups were on it a year ago or maybe two years ago.


No offense, but I do not agree. The question was not "who are we looking for in the future" but who is producing NOW. As in, who is the dog, say like Ford, who produced a heckuva lot of talented dogs (and that will depend on what one's opinion of talent is, of course.)

Looking at derby points may float some people's boat, but if you are looking for a seriously proven stud (or bitch), you really need to be watching the all-age stakes.

Hey, I have Goldens (of course Helen you know that ) and I have to look pretty hard to find ours succeeding at that level, both because we are a less popular breed for field trials and well, Golden owners often don't have the highest aspirations, but I will continue to look and watch at that level. That's what matters to me.

Melanie


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Melanie,

"Who is the best field trial POTENTIAL stud out there right now?" was the question. The words "best field trial potential stud dog" I thought meant that they were asking about young dogs who had progeny that had done something. So with that thought, it seemed to me that the most a young stud dog would have time to produce would be pups on the Derby List so that is why I posted what I did. 

Since so many posts said Pirate and Grady would be their choice for "best field trial potential stud dog out there right now", I mentioned what they had produced that was on the last published Derby list. (Grady 3, Pirate 1 is the score.) 

Pirate is 7 years old and Grady is 6 years old. I don't think either have pups running All Age stakes successfully. I don't know if either has produced a pup who is QAA. Pirate's owner Gary Zellner is running Cappy in the Q. I don't know if Cappy is QAA or not yet.

Maybe I missed the meaning of the question. If he meant, "what is the best current stud dog producing the most pups with field trial potential", then I agree that we'd have to look at all the older stud dogs still being bred who have proven already to be top producers. If Chopper is still being bred, then he would have to be somewhere near the top of the "current best stud dog" list. 

I don't know how many of Chopper pups have titled. The only one I have followed is Chad Costa's Hoot N Holler who was on the 2009 Derby List, ran in this year's National Am at barely 3 years, got pretty far in the Am, and just got his AFC title. Hoot is pretty close to getting his FC, too, which is quite remarkable for a 3 year old. I can't breed to Hoot because he is family, but he certainly fits the "potential stud dog" category as a 3-year old running and winning All Age stakes.

If we looked at dogs who are running successfully in All Age stakes and/or who already have field titles, their poppas are going to be older dogs -- maybe even dead by now. He said "out there" so I thought he meant living stud dogs. There are older stud dogs "out there" who are proven producers. It would be a long list. 

So how do you pick the "best" older stud dog from a long list of proven producers that have progeny running in All Age stakes successfully? 

I guess one criteria would be how many titled progeny the old guy has sired with different bitches. 

Somebody want to start a list of their pick(s) for "best field trial stud dog out there" ? But wait, you have to tell us WHY you chose the dog. None of that "he's awesome". Or "I got a wonderful puppy I just love that is by him". You have to tell us what field trial titled dogs he has produced that makes him "best".


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## Brandon Bromley (Dec 21, 2006)

Motown asked "Who is the Best Available Field Trial Stud??"

I took this as, which is the best studs with semen available? So Here's a few of the top producers that I'm aware of with available semen.

2XNAFC 2XCNAFC Ebonstar Lean Mac 153 Titled Offspring
FC AFC Dare to Dream 33 Titled Offspring
FC AFC Creek Robber 18 Titled Offspring
CNAFC CFC FC Aces High III 16 Titled Offspring
NFC AFC Maxx’s Surprise 16 Titled Offspring

Motown, your female already has Lean Mac twice and Cosmo once.


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## Brandon Bromley (Dec 21, 2006)

Another way to look at it...

Studs with available semen who has produced more than one National Champion.

2XNAFC 2XCNAFC Ebonstar Lean Mac	153 Titled Offspring
-NAFC FC Barton Creek’s O Mustad
- NFC AFC Maxx’s Surprise
-CNFC CNAFC FC AFC Prairiemarsh Madness
-CNFC CAFC FC AFC TNT’S Mr Peabody Prairiemarsh
-NAFC FC CFC DAY’S End Northern Express
-CNFC CNAFC Cubmead’s Steel Magnolia
-NFC AFC Five Star General Patton
-CNFC CAFC FC AFC Comstocks Bodacious
-CNAFC CFC FC AFC Northern Dancer II
-NAFC FC AFC Chickamauga Choo Choo
-CNFC Rainbow Mollie
-NAFC FC Good Idea's Whoa Nellie

CNAFC CFC FC Aces High III	16 Titled Offspring
-NFC AFC Lucyana’s Fast Willie NDC
-CNFC CAFC Call Me Mister Independence
-CNAFC FC Free Trade

FC AFC Blackwater Rudy	12 Titled Offspring
-NFC AFC Dr. Copper PH.D MH
-NAFC FC Hawkeye’s Coast Guard NDC


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Brandon Bromley said:


> Motown asked "Who is the Best Available Field Trial Stud??"
> 
> I took this as, which is the best studs with semen available? So Here's a few of the top producers that I'm aware of with available semen.
> 
> ...


How many titled offspring does Bubba have?


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## Brandon Bromley (Dec 21, 2006)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> How many titled offspring does Bubba have?


Assuming you are talking about FC AFC Hilltop's Hayseed. Answer is 8.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

IMHO there is another stud out there that is/was currently bred to some very good females and some of his progeny are just now becoming QAA and are in the hands of some trainers with reputations of producing champions.....

08 NFC Two Rivers Willie


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

helencalif said:


> You are correct. Chopper had the most progeny on the last Derby List published in RFTN. He will probably still have the most on the next published list.
> 
> I have not heard of any recent Chopper breedings. Anybody know? Perhaps Frank's move to Alaska put a damper on using Chopper.
> 
> ...


Surprised this was the first time in the thread Shaq was mentioned. He's got some young dogs out there doing good things in the derby and qual, at least here on the west coast.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Rainmaker said:


> Helen, Grady's oldest pups are just about to turn 3, there are 7 QAA offspring by my count on EE and his oldest pup, Trav, has an AA 4th and several JAMS.
> 
> Pirate's oldest litter on EE is also turning 3 this month, 2 QAA.
> 
> Though he's 8, Rough's oldest litter on EE will be 3 in November, there are 10 QAA that I see.


Excellent post. Thanks for providing the stats. This is the kind of information needed. 

I did not realize that Grady at 6 years of age would have 7 pups about turning 3 yrs old already QAA. Same litter or different dams?

Rough, 8 years old, with oldest pups turning 3 just now tells me Rough was 5 years old before he was bred. 10 QAA pups under 3 years of age tells me he should have been bred before age 5 ! How many litters to produce 10 QAA? Do you know?

Helen


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Brandon Bromley said:


> Another way to look at it...
> 
> Studs with available semen who has produced more than one National Champion.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this different take on criteria for evaluating stud dogs. Keep the stats coming!
Helen


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

I'd like to know if it makes a difference to people how many pups *in all* a stud has produced..vs number of titled (FC/AFC) offspring...

Juli


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

BonMallari said:


> IMHO there is another stud out there that is/was currently bred to some very good females and some of his progeny are just now becoming QAA and are in the hands of some trainers with reputations of producing champions.....
> 
> 08 NFC Two Rivers Willie


OK, Bon. You have thrown Willie into the ring. He is 7 years old. Do you know exactly how many of his progeny have become QAA? 

I would prefer the exact stats rather than "some" so QAA comparisons can be made between Willie, Pirate, Grady, and Rough (who are "roughly" the same age.)

However, we do have to take into consideration the age of when these fellows started being used as stud dogs. Per reports, Rough, age 8, has 10 QAA; but apparently was not used until age 5 so he got a later start. Willie is age 7, Pirate is age 7, and Grady is age 6. 

Helen


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

helencalif said:


> OK, Bon. You have thrown Willie into the ring. He is 7 years old. Do you know exactly how many of his progeny have become QAA?
> 
> I would prefer the exact stats rather than "some" so QAA comparisons can be made between Willie, Pirate, Grady, and Rough (who are "roughly" the same age.)
> 
> ...


well there is Dot and there is Holland..not sure if Tubby is QAA, and I cant remember what Ted's pup is named...but now that Kippy Swingle owns Willie i think you will start seeing him bred to more females...I know AFC Rosa Barks is enroute as I am typing to spend the fall with Rorem and will be bred to him when she comes in season...

You alluded to Chad's dog Hoot N Holler earlier, I think once he titles people will start racing to breed to him..LOTS of UPSIDE...


Not trying to be a butt kisser but I think your first litter (Saber x Ruby) is going to produce a viable stud or two, when you put that many dogs from the same litter on a derby list its not just coincidence, FT history has proven that when a litter has that many dogs on the list, that litter keeps producing down the line ..just trying to look ahead...

any dog bred now we wont see the fruits for 2-5 yrs


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

BonMallari said:


> Not trying to be a butt kisser but I think your first litter (Saber x Ruby) is going to produce a viable stud or two, when you put that many dogs from the same litter on a derby list its not just coincidence, FT history has proven that when a litter has that many dogs on the list, that litter keeps producing down the line ..just trying to look ahead...


Thanks for the kind words, Bon. Don't know about the boys in our litter (3 boys made the Derby list and so did 2 girls). Chet didn't make the Derby list (ran only 1 Derby), but he could be a "sleeper". Pro trainer has him and sees him as an All-Age dog. New owner will take Chet as far as Chet can go. Remember the name: Flyway's Chester B. Gone. Love that name.

I am saving the stud dogs stats coming out on this list to begin preparing a future boyfriend list for our Sally. We won't be breeding her for a few years so the list could change. 

Her brother Shooter (right out of Derby on Sept 2) ran in a tough Amateur and made it through 3 birds of the last series in an Am (it was a quad). Barely 24 months old and a quad! I thought I would faint. 

A new Derby list is scheduled to be published in the October issue of Retriever News. I'll be studying it to see the latest points and the newcomers (including their sires and dams) to see what bloodlines are clicking currently.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

BonMallari said:


> You alluded to Chad's dog Hoot N Holler earlier, I think once he titles people will start racing to breed to him..LOTS of UPSIDE...
> any dog bred now we wont see the fruits for 2-5 yrs


I agree that once HOOT gets his FC title, the lines will start forming to breed to him. 

I have been watching him RUN in trials, not just watching his stats -- 2009 Derby list, QAA at 24 months, ran in this year's National Am (at 3 yrs., 1 month of age) and he made it through a lot of series, gets his AFC a few weeks ago (3 yrs. 4 mo. of age), and needs only a couple FC points for his FC. 

HOOT is definitely a remarkably talented young dog. His star is on the rise. Whether he can reproduce himself will depend on the quality of the bitches brought to him. Alas, as a Chopper son I can't use him. He's family. 

Helen


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## Denney (Oct 23, 2007)

Here's the EE stats for NFC FC Two Rivers Lucky Willie


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

helencalif said:


> OK, Bon. You have thrown Willie into the ring. He is 7 years old. Do you know exactly how many of his progeny have become QAA? Helen


 


I have one. Open jam at 29 months.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Sylvia McClure and Judy Aycock have a really neat little QAA bitch named Rigby that, I believe, has 2 wins in just a handful of Quals. 

Steve hope your Cash x Star pup is doing well.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Denney said:


> Here's the EE stats for NFC FC Two Rivers Lucky Willie


Correct, there are very few dogs that have run anything. If you click through, you'll see the majority have run some hunt tests, only a few have run any trials.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

This question comes up periodically. First of all, what are your goals with the litter or for a pup? Second, what would be the best cross with _your _female if you are looking for a stud; and 3rd, look at the health history of both lines-if your dogs' ancestors have a history of acl repairs or lack of elbow numbers, don't double up on it. If you are looking for a puppy from a stud, pay attention to the female's lines and accomplishments. If the stud produces good dogs across the board or when when bred to titled females.


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

Denney said:


> Here's the EE stats for NFC FC Two Rivers Lucky Willie



*I find it interesting that the two litters that are doing very well right now are out of sisters. Might be a nic there! Although I know that he has a litter out there right now that has a male that has a 1st and a 4th in a derby and does not age out until January. She is a Carbon female.

Aaron*


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## jollydog (Jul 10, 2006)

Trumarc's Gymnast is QAA Her sire is Willie,but I can promise you the dam Kweezy had a lot to do with Rigby,Holland,Dottie,2nd in a 100 dog open, & Tubby. Their half sister Bling, sire Pow, is also very nice!


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