# Value of a great dog?



## spaightlabs (Jul 15, 2005)

Not posting to cast aspersions at all - I've never been around a truly great dog or known anyone that has one. My only brush with that level of accomplishment was with the guy that trained on elf my dogs. He had a really nice BLM that blasted through MH, and had a couple Jams and maybe a couple AA points if I remember right. He sold that dog at 4 or 5 years oldfor fifteen or 20 grand - he was a young guy and really needed the money.

What does a dog have to do to be worth $85,000? How many $85,000 dogs are there out there?

Do people with high value dogs insure the dog to an agreed upon value?

fullsizeoutput_2d17


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

I would guess most FCs would bring that if not more. 

You have to separate what the dog is worth to the owner vs what the dog will actually bring. 

The going rate for derby dogs is a thousand per point. 

There are stories of $100k+ being offered up for certain dogs. 

When you factor in the money potentially to be brought in from stud fees and litters it doesn't take long to reach those numbers. 

Even a nice HT female has the potential to bring in over $20k-$30k with just a few litters.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Mine are only "great"in my eyes... There's not enough money on the planet....


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Bryan Parks said:


> I would guess most FCs would bring that if not more. .


While the owner might have that much invested that is several multiples above market value depending on age, pedigree, potential as a stud, and potential buyers. I have a very nice just turned 6 AFC who runs a limited number of trials that I would be more than happy to rehome for $85,000. 😉


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I would guess a 'deceased' dog's stored semen could be worth more - if said dog was someone like Lean Mac, or Grady. 

I'd like to think a dog with only one derby point would be worth more than $1000? LOL


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

In my opinion “value,” as stated in the image, is much different than what someone might pay to buy a dog. 

If the question is...how did they come up with $85k for that picture? I have no idea... but... I would imagine they took into account the amount spent on many things such as pro training, entry fees, titles obtained, potential stud fees,etc etc. 

But as Ed stated, that is probably not “market” price.


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

Very few field champions would bring that kind of money. A 3 year old maybe but a 6-7 year old not a chance. Sure a few dogs sell here and there for stupid money but those are the exceptions. I know of a field champion male that sold for under 15k 3 years ago roughly that’s still competing. $85k is a pipe dream for 99.9 % of dogs. 



Bryan Parks said:


> I would guess most FCs would bring that if not more.
> 
> You have to separate what the dog is worth to the owner vs what the dog will actually bring.
> 
> ...


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## fetchbrowndog (Aug 6, 2011)

The dog in question has an FC and an MH and just turned six. Has run more then twenty All Age stakes this year with a first, two thirds and more then a dozen green ribbons and has played into the fourth series more then 85percent of the time. The dog has a very active stud schedule and lastly is known to be handled by two different amateurs who have little training time with the dog. His pedigree is beautiful and has great sought after lines. Simply the price represents what was researched via multiple professional opinions. However, there really is no price point to value a dog of any kind. They, our dogs work for us unconditionally with only the hope of love in return of their forever faithfulness to us who are not worthy of their character. Bless the dog in YOUR life.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Amen Fetchbrowndog!


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

That all may be true but damn sure doesn’t make the dog worth $85k. I hate he was stolen but that has nothing to do with worth. 



fetchbrowndog said:


> The dog in question has an FC and an MH and just turned six. Has run more then twenty All Age stakes this year with a first, two thirds and more then a dozen green ribbons and has played into the fourth series more then 85percent of the time. The dog has a very active stud schedule and lastly is known to be handled by two different amateurs who have little training time with the dog. His pedigree is beautiful and has great sought after lines. Simply the price represents what was researched via multiple professional opinions. However, there really is no price point to value a dog of any kind. They, our dogs work for us unconditionally with only the hope of love in return of their forever faithfulness to us who are not worthy of their character. Bless the dog in YOUR life.


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## Daren Galloway (Jun 28, 2012)

fetchbrowndog said:


> The dog in question has an FC and an MH and just turned six. Has run more then twenty All Age stakes this year with a first, two thirds and more then a dozen green ribbons and has played into the fourth series more then 85percent of the time. The dog has a very active stud schedule and lastly is known to be handled by two different amateurs who have little training time with the dog. His pedigree is beautiful and has great sought after lines. Simply the price represents what was researched via multiple professional opinions. However, there really is no price point to value a dog of any kind. They, our dogs work for us unconditionally with only the hope of love in return of their forever faithfulness to us who are not worthy of their character. Bless the dog in YOUR life.



The dog is 6 and has 13 AA points, that alone disqualifies him for this discussion as a great dog. I have judged the dog, take a 0 off that price at least. Truly GREAT dogs possibly do bring that much money, no one asks me if I want to pay that for them.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

That particular dog apparently is worth that much to the owner. Sometimes huge value is in the intangibles.

I had to 'buy' mine back from an ex-wife due to divorce. Six year old EIC affected, spayed, with no AA points. Hands down, the best dog I ever had.Told my Lawyer, who was doing the negotiating, that giving her up was NOT an option. To me, she was priceless. -Paul


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

I know a dog that is only 4, has only HT titles and has to date made over $40k in stud fees. 

What is the value that would be placed on that dog?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

paul young said:


> That particular dog apparently is worth that much to the owner. Sometimes huge value is in the intangibles.
> 
> I had to 'buy' mine back from an ex-wife due to divorce. Six year old EIC affected, spayed, with no AA points. Hands down, the best dog I ever had.Told my Lawyer, who was doing the negotiating, that giving her up was NOT an option. To me, she was priceless. -Paul


This is exactly right.. The time spent with a dog, and that bond,, cant be defined with a monetary amount..

Good on you Paul..

I would be embarrassed to say how much this tree branch is worth to me..

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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

View attachment 80136


When I was a kid, it was a real treat to go visit this Uncle of mine.. His whole life was dogs.. Hounds..

Many nights spent in hollows listening for "Walker" to bay...

This pic was when he was older.. His variation of an Ainley.. 

His dogs were very valuable to him..

View attachment 80138


I bet he had way more money in the dogs, than he did his truck.. 

So,, how much do some of you have tied up in your truck? ...


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Bryan Parks said:


> I know a dog that is only 4, has only HT titles and has to date made over $40k in stud fees.
> 
> What is the value that would be placed on that dog?


Good marketing sells


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

There are only a handful of people willing to pay $85k for a dog, so it would have to be exceptional and the timing right. You can easily spend $85k putting an FC on a dog in 6 or 7 years.


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

If you value the purchase as an investment, you would factor in losing your equity. Because .... the asset eventually would die. Perhaps .... you would depreciate it over an average useful lifespan. You would factor in maintenance and allocate overhead to the asset. It is like anything else, except people with hobbies don’t mind loosing money. That is the purpose of a hobby? and differentiates itself from a business. Good investors find hidden value.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

But this is about what a liability insurance will pay for someone who is a transporter and not what a private person will pay.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

spaightlabs said:


> Not posting to cast aspersions at all - I've never been around a truly great dog or known anyone that has one. My only brush with that level of accomplishment was with the guy that trained on elf my dogs. He had a really nice BLM that blasted through MH, and had a couple Jams and maybe a couple AA points if I remember right. He sold that dog at 4 or 5 years oldfor fifteen or 20 grand - he was a young guy and really needed the money.
> 
> What does a dog have to do to be worth $85,000? How many $85,000 dogs are there out there?
> 
> ...








Hell Greg Rooster is worth at least that!!
Kinda funny you posted this because I just got an email asking me if Rooster is still available. Guess I should go and edit my website, haven't even looked at it in years. :roll: Let me know if you want me to respond to the guy. Im thinking we ask $90,000 so we have a little wiggle room.


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

Bryan Parks said:


> I know a dog that is only 4, has only HT titles and has to date made over $40k in stud fees.
> 
> What is the value that would be placed on that dog?


Care to identify this dog
Is it silver


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

tigerfan said:


> Care to identify this dog
> Is it silver


Whatever it is, I want to be this dog. By my valuation and math, he's averaging about a breeding a week.


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

Mark Littlejohn said:


> Whatever it is, I want to be this dog. By my valuation and math, he's averaging about a breeding a week.


Truf!!!
Sad to save that tops my average lately


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## Ray Kirkpatrick (Sep 24, 2010)

"A really companionable and indispensable dog is an accident of nature. 
You can't get it by breeding for it, and you can't buy it for money."

E.B.White, One man's meat, 1982


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

tigerfan said:


> Bryan Parks said:
> 
> 
> > I know a dog that is only 4, has only HT titles and has to date made over $40k in stud fees.
> ...


Not a silver. I don't feel comfortable identifying the dog as it's not mine.


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Don't know what hunt test titled labradors get for stud fees but my friend has a 7 year old Grand Champion golden with a JH and over 50 litters sired. My guess is his stud fee is $1800. He surpassed $40K in earnings a while ago. This is not unheard of at all. Does that make him worth $40K? Who knows. Who would buy him in this hypothetical market?
My own golden is quite literally one of a kind...no other Grand Champion (show) golden has ever earned a ribbon at a field trial. He has two : a Qual 3rd and JAM. What does that make him worth? Who would possibly buy him that could bring out more in him and capitalize more on him? Probably no one! Value truly is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn't hazard a guess to his monetary value.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Furball said:


> Don't know what hunt test titled labradors get for stud fees but my friend has a 7 year old Grand Champion golden with a JH and over 50 litters sired. My guess is his stud fee is $1800. He surpassed $40K in earnings a while ago. This is not unheard of at all. Does that make him worth $40K? Who knows. Who would buy him in this hypothetical market?
> My own golden is quite literally one of a kind...no other Grand Champion (show) golden has ever earned a ribbon at a field trial. He has two : a Qual 3rd and JAM. What does that make him worth? Who would possibly buy him that could bring out more in him and capitalize more on him? Probably no one! Value truly is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn't hazard a guess to his monetary value.


In an all age trial or specialty? Plenty of off breeds have GCH titles and get their qualified all age status at a specialty. Anyone who runs trials knows an all breed trial is very different than a title gained at a specialty. We need to be realistic about titles.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I'd be curious to know how many litters Stryder has sired? - only one breeding on retriever results or hunting lab pedigree, but I know a lot of pups don't get listed on these sites until they have accomplished a title or are being bred... 

Rain finished up her derby career with 125 combined 'derby' points (canadian and US) - pretty phenomenal!


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Tobias would they take 85 for Rain?


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

a dog is worth as much as what someone is willing to pay !!! 

this sport isn’t for the average 45 hrs a week workin man/women


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Chad Baker said:


> Tobias would they take 85 for Rain?


I know I wouldn't. She's a special dog (although being given as much opportunity as one could hope for doesn't hurt!) Could her littermates have been as successful? we may not know because maybe they were not afforded the same opportunity.. or maybe some were and did not pan out.... the ones listed on rr have the jh titles. Regardless, it takes a very intelligent and excellent marking dog to accomplish what she has.


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

Chad Baker said:


> Tobias would they take 85 for Rain?


According to Brian Parks math they would

He apparently knows of some dog with a hunt test title that's could be worth more than that though


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Happy Gilmore said:


> In an all age trial or specialty? Plenty of off breeds have GCH titles and get their qualified all age status at a specialty. Anyone who runs trials knows an all breed trial is very different than a title gained at a specialty. We need to be realistic about titles.


Bally earned both of his ribbons at all breed, pro/am quals, with 35+ entries

There are no other GCH goldens with a field trial ribbon, period, from any stake any where


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> a dog is worth as much as what someone is willing to pay !!!


True of everything in a free market.


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

I find what you saying impossible to believe. If it’s true his owners are marketing wizards. 



Bryan Parks said:


> Not a silver. I don't feel comfortable identifying the dog as it's not mine.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Ray Kirkpatrick said:


> "A really companionable and indispensable dog is an accident of nature.
> You can't get it by breeding for it, and you can't buy it for money."
> 
> E.B.White, One man's meat, 1982


This.. /\ /\…. I wonder how many of us ,have truly experienced one.. I haven't owned that many dogs.. 6 over 40 years or so... There is one that has been extra different as far as defining a companion,... truly a gift...


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

MooseGooser said:


> This.. /\ /\…. I wonder how many of us ,have truly experienced one.. I haven't owned that many dogs.. 6 over 40 years or so... There is one that has been extra different as far as defining a companion,... truly a gift...





Cant seem to post a quote within a quote ( just stupid I guess) but I dont get it Gooser. Maybe Im not understanding Ray's post but his description fits ALL my dogs all that I have kept anyway especially when it comes to being a companion. That's why I like labs I thought they came out of the box like that. I have had very few even considering the ones I didn't keep and sold that I didn't like.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I remeber one very cold day. It was late.. almost sundown. Hunting a large field of yellow grass.. we flushed a rooster.. I didnt hit it well, and the bird flew over a small rise,that made it impossible to to follow. The dog was in hot pursuit.. I walked to the top of the rise,,and could not see the dog! he blended perfectly into the late day sunset on the grass.. (Yeller dog). I stood there for a long time whistling for him...
It got dark,, panicking, I made my way back to the truck, thinking I was going to have to leave him..

I was a few yards from the truck, not knowing what my next move was going to be. I turned 1 last time to look over my shoulder, and the dog was 35 yards from me with the bird in his mouth..,,,

I haven't ever experienced that much feeling of relief, since in my life...

A lowly Junior Hunter, Ill trained by me, but spent countless hours of time in the field hunting rooster for 13 years... With me through those good times, and also with me though some very dark days... Always there... There is not enough money on the planet ...​


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Steve Shaver said:


> Cant seem to post a quote within a quote ( just stupid I guess) but I dont get it Gooser. Maybe Im not understanding Ray's post but his description fits ALL my dogs all that I have kept anyway especially when it comes to being a companion. That's why I like labs I thought they came out of the box like that. I have had very few even considering the ones I didn't keep and sold that I didn't like.



That 1 dog of mine was very obviously different from all the others... All my dogs are special to me... but that 1 dog stood out... many many great memories, along with some very bad also... dog was always there.. He was obviously "My dog"


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Had no money at the time... Only enough to gas the truck,,and a bit of food... Motels were out of the question, on those cold Nebraska/ Kansas hunting trips.. Many nights spent on the ground on a pad, under the truck, with that dog curled up next to me... Both of us happily worn out chasing Roosters during the day..

You cant buy that.. JMHO..


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

I turned down 125 when Gman was really young and I said no! The guy said name your price and said no again and don't regret it one bit! Sounds like there is several amazing young dogs running today, that's great for the sport I hope the owners enjoy the ride!
CB


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## brou2426 (Feb 29, 2016)

Chad Baker said:


> I turned down 125 when Gman was really young and I said no! The guy said name your price and said no again and don't regret it one bit! Sounds like there is several amazing young dogs running today, that's great for the sport I hope the owners enjoy the ride!
> CB


I think it is clear now that you made the right choice. i am sure you have probable doubled that in stud fees.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Heck - I could afford 125!


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Funny thing is a $85K dog most likely isn't worth much to someone who doesn't actually own it and have AKC papers, My feeling would be the owners would have reported the dog stolen to AKC and froze his paperwork. Can't run a dog with Frozen paperwork; so HT and FT are out; also no breeding. The only possible market would be a hunter, then your buying a dog FC MH AFC NFC (whatever) without papers; who can only be hunted. Watching the market you can get a finished dog for maybe 6k; but even that would be a hard sell without official documentation including health certs.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

brou2426 said:


> I think it is clear now that you made the right choice. i am sure you have probable doubled that in stud fees.


I'm guessing the incredible journey with Grady is more special to him than the money ever could be... But the stud fees aren't bad either...


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

tigerfan said:


> Chad Baker said:
> 
> 
> > Tobias would they take 85 for Rain?
> ...


How much did Larry sell for? $60k? 

I recently saw an ad for a dog with 19 derby points asking $20k. 

Not sure what they got though. 

Do you think Rain would sell for $85k?


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## Barry Ireland (Feb 18, 2005)

If there was a way to and I had the means I can think of a couple of my dogs I would spend some stupid amount of money to have back, if only for one more hunt. But, as Grandma said if wishes were horses we could all get on and ride.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

When applying for a loan,, is it possible to list an 85k dog as an asset? What proof of the value, would you be required to give? Would it be pro rated based on age?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I have guns, that people tell me the value is somewhat high.. Its one thing to get an opinion, its quite another to get a wad a cash.. I look at my guns, like my dogs..neither are for sale..


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Bryan Parks said:


> Do you think Rain would sell for $85k?


It takes only one person to whom $85,000 to them is the equivalent of the $200 I carry in my front pocket wallet. I can’t imagine spending $50,000 for a boat or $10,000 for a cruise but everyone has their own guilty pleasure. That $85 single malt Scotch on my bar is worth every penny😉


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## Jerry S. (May 18, 2009)

There obviously is an inherent good will in a young dog. I recently sold one at 18 months sight unseen to a young man in VA. 

He paid a fair price for a dog he'd never even seen run. Fair meaning fair for him and fair for me. If I liked running trials I would have put a bunch of points on him garnering more money. However, I kept the new owner abreast of his progress. He received him and promptly put derby points on him and got him QAA at 22 months.

I am happy the dog has a great new owner that likes to run trials and will take him a long ways in the FT world.

Hard to put a value on that dog. Thankfully it was one we both could agree on. 

More importantly; knowing the home environment, training environment, and long term plans, weighed heavily into my decision to sell to the new owner.


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