# Field Trial Dog Life Part 2



## GW10 (Nov 12, 2012)

The Field Trial Dog Life thread got me thinking and raised a question. I have never used a trainer / pro but my question is....how much time (daily) do pros spend with each dog on their truck in training? I am just curious how that time spent correlates with the time I spend on daily training with my dog.

Thanks

GW


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Funny that you have 99+ views and no replies


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

The only correct answer you'll get here is the RTF time honored "it depends." Seriously you would have to ask your prospective pro.

I had my dog with a pro for a few months and the man worked his tail off. He had a large number of dogs in training but he would typically get in 3 set ups per day. Now, how many minutes of actual training per day was that per dog? Not a lot, but the results were great.

EDIT: This was hunt test training BTW. I don't know how much the answer would vary for field trial training. I know some of the field trial set ups would take a lot longer to run due to greater distances, longer swims, etc., but I don't know whether or not they would typically get 3 set ups in per day or not. It really doesn't matter as long as the dog progresses, is well exercised and well cared for IMO.


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## GW10 (Nov 12, 2012)

I started thinking about my question last night and had only read up to about post 30 on the original thread. After reading the rest of the thread I can see how some may take this as stirring the pot. That really is not my intention. I have a four month old pup from a FT breeding that I am considering sending to a trainer vs training myself. I have trained multiple dogs but not to FT levels and I know that I would be potentially holding him back. With three kids and a wife, he is a family member and gets way too much attention. 

I am sincerely curious as to how much time daily a trainer spends with each dog.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

It's not about the quantity, it's about the *quality*.

My dogs get about 3 solid setups a day with my Pro, but it also depends on many other factors just how much "personal" attention they get - my young one going through basics gets more because he gets yard work too.

When my dogs are home, we are lucky to get in a set of marks and blinds 3-4 times a week. And very, very lucky to get live birds (that will change as we have moved to new property which we can train and shoot birds on).

Edit: My dogs love my Pro, even my retired guy when we go up to train, he always tries to sneak over and say "Hi" to her and attempts to get ear scratchings. Plus he will want to run into her airing yard and check things out, he will even check out his old run, but of course I get ready to leave and he is hot on my tail (he is a Momma's boy after all). But all my dogs love being with my Pro - they like the routine, they like the training, they like her. I have no worries that my dogs aren't well cared for.


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## uplandbird (Mar 21, 2013)

GW10 said:


> I started thinking about my question last night and had only read up to about post 30 on the original thread. After reading the rest of the thread I can see how some may take this as stirring the pot. That really is not my intention. I have a four month old pup from a FT breeding that I am considering sending to a trainer vs training myself. I have trained multiple dogs but not to FT levels and I know that I would be potentially holding him back. With three kids and a wife, he is a family member and gets way too much attention.
> 
> I am sincerely curious as to how much time daily a trainer spends with each dog.


I to am very curious, not because I can afford a pro, but just in comparison. I know I have spent way longer on training my pup then a pro would have to, I get that. 
Just curious how much time it takes to achieve their goals with the dogs, cuz I certainly know how many hours I feel Ive spent trying to figgur my training problems out.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

I just got my dog back from a pro. He loves it like a kid loves Disney World. Birds EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!

As for the time with each dog, probably not more than 15-30 minutes a day, or the amount of time that you would be spending on training every day if the dog was home. It's the different setups and grounds (particularly technical water), plus the experience and consistency that pros train with, that makes the difference. My dog probably got in 3 months this summer what I would have taken 6-9 months at least to do.



GW10 said:


> The Field Trial Dog Life thread got me thinking and raised a question. I have never used a trainer / pro but my question is....how much time (daily) do pros spend with each dog on their truck in training? I am just curious how that time spent correlates with the time I spend on daily training with my dog.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> GW


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

RookieTrainer said:


> I just got my dog back from a pro. He loves it like a kid loves Disney World. Birds EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!
> 
> As for the time with each dog, probably not more than 15-30 minutes a day, or the amount of time that you would be spending on training every day if the dog was home. It's the different setups and grounds (particularly technical water), plus the experience and consistency that pros train with, that makes the difference. My dog probably got in 3 months this summer what I would have taken 6-9 months at least to do.


What did your dog do for the other 23.5 hrs each day?


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

How would he know, he wasn't there. Probably aired 3-4 times, on and off the truck a few times, in and out of the kennel, etc. The same things dogs do anywhere. If your heart can't take knowing your dog isint sleeping on the couch all day long then maybe you should buy a mini horse. They are dogs, not children and they are very adaptable. I have a dog that has spent a total of about 9 months with a pro. If he could talk he would say its much more fun over there in Georgia. I get trained 5 days a week, 3 times a day and sleep the rest of the time. At my house he sleeps more and trains less.


pcarpenter said:


> What did your dog do for the other 23.5 hrs each day?


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

Its not how much time but the quality of the work they get. 5 days of consistent work weekly adds up in a hurry. On top of that it is well thought out training and everything flows. A good pro will double or triple my output in less time.


GW10 said:


> I started thinking about my question last night and had only read up to about post 30 on the original thread. After reading the rest of the thread I can see how some may take this as stirring the pot. That really is not my intention. I have a four month old pup from a FT breeding that I am considering sending to a trainer vs training myself. I have trained multiple dogs but not to FT levels and I know that I would be potentially holding him back. With three kids and a wife, he is a family member and gets way too much attention.
> 
> I am sincerely curious as to how much time daily a trainer spends with each dog.


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

What everyone else has said. It's the quality. Pros spend a lot of time doing the right thing.

Dogs sit around a lot between sessions but I think that's part of the learning experience. Too many dogs at home are doing things that are fun to them on their own. At the pros or even when we are training them their fun is training. Waiting between sessions makes the session more important to them, in my opinion. Many times it's a good idea to crate a dog for hours before you go to train. If you come home from work ready to train and the dog has been chasing squirrels or playing with the kids all day your planned force to pile session doesn't have much appeal.

You can do a lot on your own, but a dog has only so much energy and attention span so if you're doing multiple dogs or you're with a group it's one thing, one dog on your own you're both waiting between sessions. If you're traveling a distance to train it's very hard.

I agree that a pro can easily do 3-4 times as much as someone can on their own in the same time period.. They are also good at evaluating what a dog needs and where it is and how far it can go in training at the higher levels.


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## trog (Apr 25, 2004)

questions to ask yourself
can you train on very high quality land/water every day
does this training involve different quality land and water every day
do you have the help to throw a quad or triple every day
do you have the expertise to respond immediately to a problem - this means a whistle or nick as needed with precise timing
do you have a live bird shooter than can ride birds out and give a clean kill
do you have a bird thrower that can clear the skyline]
does you bird thrower know how to help a dog

just saying many things go into the equation
trog


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Justin Allen said:


> How would he know, he wasn't there. Probably aired 3-4 times, on and off the truck a few times, in and out of the kennel, etc. The same things dogs do anywhere. If your heart can't take knowing your dog isint sleeping on the couch all day long then maybe you should buy a mini horse. They are dogs, not children and they are very adaptable. I have a dog that has spent a total of about 9 months with a pro. If he could talk he would say its much more fun over there in Georgia. I get trained 5 days a week, 3 times a day and sleep the rest of the time. At my house he sleeps more and trains less.



Is that what he would say? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. You sure as hell can't read his mind. Do mini-horses sleep on couches?

I'm not against sending a dog to a pro. I'm sending my dog to one. Work on your reading comp rather than making wise a$$ comments


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

GW10 said:


> I started thinking about my question last night and had only read up to about post 30 on the original thread. After reading the rest of the thread I can see how some may take this as stirring the pot. That really is not my intention. I have a four month old pup from a FT breeding that I am considering sending to a trainer vs training myself. I have trained multiple dogs but not to FT levels and I know that I would be potentially holding him back. With three kids and a wife, he is a family member and gets way too much attention.
> *
> I am sincerely curious as to how much time daily a trainer spends with each dog*.


here was the timeline when I spent a couple of days throwing birds for a well respected pro earlier this spring...pro had a full truck/trailer with about 15-20 dogs, 2 assistants and 3+/- owners attending..typical Mon/Tues schedule with a Fri-Sun trial ahead

7-8 am: asst. aired dogs, any females in heat were aired elsewhere

8am sharp : set up being done ,gunners given instructions, blanks,chairs and birds set up

8:30 - land triple thrown, assistants or owners continually bring dogs to the line, older AA dogs first, younger dogs last, only stop to rebird or bring in one of the owners to run their dog

10:30- change location

11:00 - water triple with/blind- same rotation AA dogs first

no break for lunch, eat out in the field or on the go . We usually finished about 2:30-3 and called it a day,where dogs were aired again and fed. Same type of schedule the following day except flyers shot,Dogs given Wed off and then flyers shot again with blind work on Thurs

a pro with a smaller truck may get more setups done depending on if they have the luxury of an assistant, a quad, and or clients attending..YMMV


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## Brent McDowell (Jul 2, 2008)

John Lash said:


> What everyone else has said. It's the quality. Pros spend a lot of time doing the right thing.
> 
> Dogs sit around a lot between sessions but I think that's part of the learning experience. Too many dogs at home are doing things that are fun to them on their own. At the pros or even when we are training them their fun is training. Waiting between sessions makes the session more important to them, in my opinion. Many times it's a good idea to crate a dog for hours before you go to train. If you come home from work ready to train and the dog has been chasing squirrels or playing with the kids all day your planned force to pile session doesn't have much appeal.
> 
> ...


Very well said! X2!


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

pcarpenter said:


> Is that what he would say? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. You sure as hell can't read his mind. Do mini-horses sleep on couches?
> 
> I'm not against sending a dog to a pro. I'm sending my dog to one. Work on your reading comp rather than making wise a$$ comments


Yes, yes they do sleep on couches.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

GW10 said:


> The Field Trial Dog Life thread got me thinking and raised a question. I have never used a trainer / pro but my question is....how much time (daily) do pros spend with each dog on their truck in training? I am just curious how that time spent correlates with the time I spend on daily training with my dog.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> GW



Sometimes they learn a lot doing nothing?...


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

pcarpenter said:


> What did your dog do for the other 23.5 hrs each day?


Aired, rode around, got used to being around several dogs (basically a perpetual test environment), ran setups, including flyers that I cannot do with any regularity, lounged around on the chain gang, and got some really good training in much cooler weather than we were having here. Had he stayed here, there probably would have been several mornings where we struggled to get anything done because of the heat. Plus I don't have any water I can get to during the week, and he was in the water a majority of his days up north during the summer.

Other than futzing around with me at night, he didn't miss much. He already stays in a crate during the day while my wife and I work, so that was no real big change for him. It was probably much harder on my wife and I missing him than it was on him. I did it because I love the dog and I wanted him to have the chance to be as successful as his talent and makeup would allow him to be. YMMV.

BTW, I know Justin and he probably could come pretty close to reading my mind. And he's a pretty good dog trainer to boot.


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Another thing you "get for free" using a Pro. Your dog knows how to be a dog. It knows how to interact with other dogs and maybe the most important to ignore other dogs going to the line and when on honor.

They get tied out and learn to relax in an exciting situation. They see drag back every day, a couple times a day.

And a lot of other things that you'd need 20 dogs to replicate.


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Was the original intent of the poster trying to juxtapose the amount of time dog is actually training with a pro to what the pro is charging? In which case these pros are making way to much money, except it doesn't work that way. If I were in the market the main things on my mind would be, assuming the dog has talent needed, what are my expectations for this dog. Do I have the time, resources, knowledge and temperament needed to get this dog where I want to go in a time frame acceptable to myself. If I decide that bringing a trainer into the mix will help me achieve my objective then there is a whole separate list of criteria and way way down the list is the actual time spent with my dog.


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

Not to mention the opportunity to watch your pro run the other 19 dogs and ask a ton of questions about what he is doing and why. Plus having the other owners show up and let you pick their brains about certain things. It has been a great experience for me. I hope I can send my dog at least a couple more summers. 



John Lash said:


> Another thing you "get for free" using a Pro. Your dog knows how to be a dog. It knows how to interact with other dogs and maybe the most important to ignore other dogs going to the line and when on honor.
> 
> They get tied out and learn to relax in an exciting situation. They see drag back every day, a couple times a day.
> 
> And a lot of other things that you'd need 20 dogs to replicate.


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

If a dog starts serious training at 6 months and runs until he is 8-9 years old and you send the dog away 6 months a year you are probably at least 3 years ahead in his training than if you did it yourself, unless you are retired and very serious. Maybe even more than that. 

I realized that what I can do in about a month of evenings and weekends a pro can do in a little over a week. What I can do in a summer he can do in a month and a half.


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## Lonnie Spann (May 14, 2012)

I would guess the answer would be that the time per day devoted to each dog on the truck varies. Each dog progresses at a different rate so some need more time per day than others do. Today my son and I trained for about 2 hours with 5 dogs but we didn't devote 24 minutes to each dog.

You can spend 24/7 with your dog but it won't make him or her a FC.

Lonnie Spann


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

One thing not mentioned is time of yr and where pro is located. I'm in NC and don't go north due to working at "regular job" I work shift work and only work 14 days a month and half of those are nights so I still train everyday just somedays is mornings some days it evenings and some days all day. In the summer in NC I'm usually done by 9:30 because of the heat. In the sprng and fall I'll go all day on my off days and half a day on the days I work nights at the plant. Typical day for me when off and not 90 deg goes like this. Up and outside by 7am. I have dogs at all levels so I try to train in groups. young dogs first,OB FF FTP. Then it's off to the field for marks with everybody. Then I will do swimby before lunch if I have any there at the time. After lunch I usually FF again and some OB and then marks again. I usually finish up around 6 or 7 pm and clean kennels and feed. In the house by dark hopefully. All in all depending on level of dog I'll say 30 to 45min per dog,some more some less. The only time I feel like I'm not doing enough is when I'm working day shift and only have time to do a little OB before dark. After doing this for several yrs I have found my dogs respond better and seem to make the most progress following my day shift which is only 3 to 4 day at most and they have had a little break. Winter time is a little different and I have flood lights to FF and do OB in the evening after working days. I'm usually only working 8 to 10 dogs so I don't have the big load some have. Works for me and everybody is happy with their dogs.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

duk4me said:


> Yes, yes they do sleep on couches.


I love you, Tim Bockman. I really really love you...


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Jennifer Henion said:


> I love you, Tim Bockman. I really really love you...


Oh its just puppy love. You don't even know how to spell my last name.;-)


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

Lonnie Spann said:


> You can spend 24/7 with your dog but it won't make him or her a FC.


I forgot you had seen me train a few times. #thetruthhurts


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

FOM said:


> It's not about the quantity, it's about the *quality*.
> 
> My dogs get about *3 solid setups *a day with my Pro, but it also depends on many other factors just how much "personal" attention they get - my young one going through basics gets more because he gets yard work too.
> 
> ...


This is a major problem. Most of the time Am's don't have the grounds alone to get in the quality, much less the same quanity with life's events going on.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Bruce MacPherson said:


> Was the original intent of the poster trying to juxtapose the amount of time dog is actually training with a pro to what the pro is charging?


The original intent was to be a troll, I think.


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## GW10 (Nov 12, 2012)

DoubleHaul said:


> The original intent was to be a troll, I think.



I promise you I was not trolling.....I have never been to a pro, worked with a pro, or been to a FT. I have always been interested in training and have trained several dogs. They were good well behaved dogs but not trained to FT levels. Life has recently allowed me more time and I was sincerely curious as to the amount of time a trainer spends with each dog. 

Thank you all for the good answers. I know it was a vague question and really depends on the dog but Bon really hit on what I was looking for.


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

Then what the hell is your point? Maybe doggy daycare is more your style. And yes, my dog would rather be training hard with the pro than training from time to time with me.


pcarpenter said:


> Is that what he would say? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. You sure as hell can't read his mind. Do mini-horses sleep on couches?
> 
> I'm not against sending a dog to a pro. I'm sending my dog to one. Work on your reading comp rather than making wise a$$ comments


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## Daniel J Simoens (Jul 7, 2011)

Being a first time dog owner I just received my pup back from the trainer this week and couldn’t be happier with the progression the trainer has made with my pup. I think the most beneficial thing from his training was being able to use his own “fully” trained dogs to lead by example. Having a dog watch another dog do it the right way has to be one of the most better parts of training I’m sure of it. Another benefit would be the daily exposure to live birds. I live in the city and have no place to keep live birds, nor know what to do with them!


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Justin Allen said:


> Then what the hell is your point? Maybe doggy daycare is more your style. And yes, my dog would rather be training hard with the pro than training from time to time with me.


Not sure what you're so riled up about. Some of us are new to training with a pro and are trying to benefit from those with more experience and knowledge (I include you in that group). You made a counter productive comment implying that I'm too soft on my dogs. Maybe you're right. I care more about my dogs than a lot of people. But I've spent the last 20 yrs owning FT dogs because I appreciate their determination, athleticism, and intelligence. That type of dog fits my needs. However, I don't see the value of owning such a dog if it spends the bulk of its life away from its owner in the pursuit of ribbons/titles.

I'm hoping there is a happy medium


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

pcarpenter said:


> I'm hoping there is a happy medium


There is a happy medium. Also professional dog trainers are no different than the rest of society, some are good trainers with poor people skills, some have good people skills but are not good trainers, and some are good trainers with good people skills. Find one that suits you and your needs.


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm not riled up about anything. I just don't see what the issue is. Find yourself a well respected pro that takes good care of the dogs and knows how to get through to them. If you trust the pro your mind will be eased I'm sure. The most important thing you and the dog can gain from the use of a pro is more knowledge for you and the dog. They can be spoiled again when they get home. FWIW I would never buy a dog and just stick it on a pros truck for good. My dogs are pets and hunting buddies first, competitive dogs second. I def agree with the quality of life deal when a dog is sent off for extreme periods of time. I'm sure they could stand a visit or two to home.


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## pupaloo (Jan 6, 2006)

It is a pro's job to train your dog, and the time s/he spends with your dog will be doing that. The rest of the day, for the dog, is spent being a dog-waiting to train, airing, eating, sleeping. You should not expect that your dog will be your pro's "pet" while the dog is there-that is not what you are hiring the pro to do. Dogs do just fine in that environment. They have structure, they know what to expect, they get to work lots, every day, which they love. They are not people. They do not miss you like you miss them when they are gone, but they will be happy to see you when they get back


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## Bill Billups (Sep 13, 2003)

EdA said:


> There is a happy medium. Also professional dog trainers are no different than the rest of society, some are good trainers with poor people skills, some have good people skills but are not good trainers, and some are good trainers with good people skills. Find one that suits you and your needs.[/
> 
> I agree and the other thing you can do is find one close by that will let you be involved in the process. I had trained my own dogs before but learned a lot more about training when my dogs went to a pro.


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## Bill Billups (Sep 13, 2003)

pcarpenter said:


> What did your dog do for the other 23.5 hrs each day?


I know what his dog did up north cause I was there. aired and exercised multiple times. At least 3 setups. When not running staked out with the others watching the action. About 1000% more training than he could have gotten in the Alabama summer


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## Brent McDowell (Jul 2, 2008)

Bill Billups said:


> I agree and the other thing you can do is find one close by that will let you be involved in the process. I had trained my own dogs before but learned a lot more about training when my dogs went to a pro.


x10 for the inexperienced handlers among the group. I'm fortunate to own an AA dog, but I am far from being an AA handler. 80% of my line time while with my pro is handler training. I get my fair share of corrections, too. Today was a good day...yesterday, not so much.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Jennifer Henion said:


> I love you, Tim Bockman. I really really love you...


I just had to bump this. With all the vitriol I've been subjected to I want to bask in the glory. Sorry Jen.


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Jennifer Henion said:


> I love you, Tim Bockman. I really really love you...





duk4me said:


> I just had to bump this. With all the vitriol I've been subjected to I want to bask in the glory. Sorry Jen.
> 
> I have learned I need Jen much more than she needs me. Tim Bockmon







I see a quote change coming...


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

For Tim:

http://youtu.be/ckhYHwldi5g It's true


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