# Lab is growling at me, what to do?



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Not quite as typical as it sounds I dont think. 
I have a 23 month old Yellow Lab that has started growling and getting his hackles up at me in the last few months. I dont think he playing at all. 
Background is that he is a VERY talented pup.He learns quicky usually. And wants to please me, most of the time. He was force fetched last summer, by a pro, and started doing hunt tests. Trainer loves him.I am brand new at handling or training.He has done great.No one has had anything to say about him, but positive. TONS of drive. Very fast and athletic. He is going to be great. We hunted him this fall, and he did great.
He is a house dog at home.We have 2 kids 6 and 8. The only time he has not been a house dog is when he was training with a pro for 2 months. I saw him for group training and one on one training 2x week for most of this time.

So, here is the part I cant figure out. He is great with the family during the day. He is everything you want in a family dog. Typical goofy, attention loving lab.Protective of his family and his property but otherwise non-threatening. He is not aggressive to other animals.In fact he could care less about other animals most of the time.

At might he is different.
A few months ago I was watching a video that had been linked on here. It turned out to be a "trainer" that was abusing his dog with the Ecollar. My dog was lying at his feet. When he heard that dog he went ballistic. I turned it off immediately , but my dog kept snarling at me.I took him outside immediately and played with him, but he was stand offish for a day or two. 
Now intermittently he has been doing the same thing, without any provocation that I can tell. 98% of the time it is after dark, and rarely a little the next morning. About 6 weeks ago he started this one night right after I aired him before bed.I ended up grabbing him by the collar, and he went nuts. First time my wife had ever seen it, and it scared her.I rolled him then, but it was a FIGHT.
I had back surgery 4 weeks ago, and cant get physical/alpha roll him at all.
I am asking for advice because when I went to bed the other night, he came at me.I turned on the light to be sure he knew it was me, and he didnt quit. Told him to knock it off, and he got louder.Took him outside and threw a dummy, and he finally calmed down.It is getting more frequently.I dont trust him at night any more.
He got growly with a male jogger that ran near him this week. But ignored females that day.
My wife thinks it is only men that set him off. In fact when he starts with me, she can usually call him away and put him out. 10 minutes later he is usually OK..

I am not sure if this aggression toward me,him trying to be alpha, or if it is fear for some reason. Happens almost always at night. I know his sight is good, he does 150 yard marks without any difficulty,He has never been beaten, or even struck that I know of.He does have a collar he always wears when he is exercising or training. In fact he loves it. He has NEVER been aggressive to my wife or kids.
Normally he will follow me around all day. Sleeps at my feet, etc.I talked to his parents owners. Their dogs have never acted like this. His brother doesnt act like this.

I really love this dog. As do my kids. I dont want to have to get rid of him. And I dont want to alpha roll him if it is fear, I figure this would make it worse? If it is him trying to be alpha, what do I need to do? I just dont know why this behavior.And I NEED to fix it. We dont want him to be a kennel dog.
Thanks for any insight,
Mike


----------



## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Did you talk to your Pro about this?


----------



## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

Punch him in the nose


----------



## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Probably not the PC answer but my dog Hudson did this, I threw him on his back, grabbed his throat and shook the daylight out of him. He has never growled at me since.


----------



## Oldfield Retrievers (Feb 9, 2009)

I would muzzle him in the evenings, after he eats for the safety of your family. Maintaining this practice over a extended period time may indicate to him he is a subordinate member of the family. "Just an idea for starts", but I would really monitor him very close when not muzzled. I may even consider crating him along with muzzling during this same period (example: when he is not muzzled, he should be crated).
He believes he is running the show and you will have to establish an absolute impression on him of your dominance and control. Physical confrontations can and should be avoided, if you set some very consistent methods of control over him, he may change his dominant behavior. 

Hope this helps!
Ken


----------



## Brad Vail (Jan 9, 2003)

First this dog needs to be evaluated by your vet for physical/neurological issues. If those things are ruled out, exercise and obedience are going to be great tools to use with this dog. If he was mine I would free run and or swim him until he was dragging. I would also try to get two strict leash obedience sessions in per day. He needs a paradigm shift. This is something you don't want to let go. Get after it immediately and implement a plan. Also, if your physical condition is compromised don't get into a struggle with him you can't win. He will remember this! If you go to ground, you have to win.


----------



## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Has this dog been allowed to sleep on the bed and furniture? Is there always free run of the house? Have any other dynamics changed in the household, i.e. new pets?

Suggest getting a vet exam which includes thyroid T3-T4 panel to rule our health issues. 

Is this dog neutered or still intact?

Milder epileptic seizures can sometimes present in aggressive behavior with the dogs also staring off into space or seeming withdrawn.

I certainly would not be throwing bumpers rewarding the aggressive behavior 

Contact an experienced dog behaviorial specialist that can see how you and your family are interacting with this dog to give you advice.


----------



## Eli M (Jan 24, 2012)

I went through this with a Aust. Cattle Dog stud I had once, turns out he had a brain injury and had to be put down... Not the PC way, but I'd put a time line of this, do a through blood panel, vet visit, have the trainer in for a night and provoke the situation to see what they think, but bud, you've got two small kids in that house and if he went after you and you are the ALPHA MALE and it was a fight whats the result gonna be if he takes a crack at your kids? What chance will they have to defend? I have a friend who is a very pretty girl and wonderful woman but she has a scar covering her cheek from a dog attack when she was little, the last thing you want is your kids to deal with that, it's hard but I had to return my boy to the breeder for the safety of my family. If you didnt have kids and had more time to spend curing it that'd be different, but you cant change a tragedy after the fact no matter if you had the best intentions.


----------



## rbr (Jan 14, 2004)

ZERO TOLERANCE!!!!! 

Bert


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

frontier said:


> Has this dog been allowed to sleep on the bed and furniture? Is there always free run of the house? Have any other dynamics changed in the household, i.e. new pets?
> 
> Suggest getting a vet exam which includes thyroid T3-T4 panel to rule our health issues.
> 
> ...


I agree with Frontier. It almost sounds like something medical (seizures) is setting him off. This is serious. You need to get him away from the people outside and the kids until you can have him thoroughly checked out. The muzzle is not a bad idea but if he were mine he would be gone. Call the breeder.


----------



## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Rule out any health issues, then what Bert said. 
Under no circumstances should this be tolerated Definately don't take the dog outside and throw bumpers. You are rewarding the behavior.
Stop it now before it gets much worse.


----------



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Mike Smith said:


> If a dog growled at me (and they have) and exhibited that behavior at night we would have a Come To Jesus meeting not later but right NOW. Like the minute I saw those hackles go up. Followed promptly with an OB lesson with a choke chain and zero tolerance. As soon as you see submission let them up a bit and ease off until they are behaving correctly.Had this problem with an Alpha male Golden years ago. You have to balance correction for bad behavior with reward for good . I don't abuse my dogs but I do not allow them run the show. No way he would get a bumper until the next day, provided he showed the proper behavior.
> My .02


I think the issue is that the poster has had back surgery recently. 

I agree completely with what Brad Vail wrote.

Chris


----------



## Bruz (Jan 21, 2012)

My take from breeding American Pits and Chow Chows for years. 

Your dog senses your weakness. You just had surgery and prior to that you were probably weaker and in pain I assume. 

Dogs sense weakness in the Alpha....You.....they believe its time to assert themselves. The only dangerous situation I ever had with a Pit was when I was playing MLB for Ga Tech in 89. I injured and tore my miniscus in Spring camp...I came home in pain and on meds...My favorite dog Obi sensed my weakness and began challenging me.....The situation was always after dark and as you describe. 

I spoke to a K9 trainer friend of mine from the USMC and he explained how do deal with it. Seems it happens in battle zones as well when a handler is injured during battle. Its not nice but SOLVED the problem immediately. 

PM me and Ill share the solution. 

Bruz


----------



## ron david (Mar 14, 2012)

John Robinson said:


> Did you talk to your Pro about this?


I agree with this.I would check what your dogs relationship is like with the trainer. one never knows what is happening when your not there. there are some horror stories out there.
ron


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

As far as obedience, he is excellent. He gets obedience every day when we go for excercise. He never questions me. Only at night when he has his hackles up. I havent thrown bumpers to reward his behavior, but maybe this is how he sees it. I have been just trying to break his behavior. If I get him doing something else, he quits.

As far as my kids being safe, I watch very carefully. He has NEVER been aggressive at all to them. Kids friend stuck a straw up his nose last week, dog licked him and wagged his tail. He is careful not to knock them over. He does not chase them like an Alpha I owned used to.He is never left unsupervised around them.They are not allowed him while he eats. I work in an ER and used to work Peds ICU. I am well aware of dog bites and the damage they do.

Nothing drastic has changed in the house recently. Other than my surgery.

When I said he is protective of his property, it has only been to 1 man that came close to my wife, and 1 man that walked through our gate into the back yard unannounced..Meter reader. When he growled, I told him to Here and sit. Which he did without question.

He will be crated at night starting tonight. He has free run of the house when we are home. Kennel when we are at work. NEVER allowed on ANY furniture.

Seizures? I guess possible, but not likely since it is 98% of the time after dark. Any one have any idea for why this is? He is intact.

I will talk to the trainer when I can get out there. But I need to heal a little more. Dog hasnt seen the trainer since September.

The time he first did it in front of my wife, we did have a come to Jesus meeting.I actually had to choke him out. Only way I could hold him down and not lose.I really dont want to do that again unless I have to. I will be physically unable to do that for several more months.

Truthfully, he has NEVER acted alpha at all until recently.He is usually a happy go lucky goof ball unless he is training, hunting, or testing.Then he is intense.

So no one thinks there is any type of a fear reaction, however misplaced it might be, going on here? Almost always after dark......

Hope I answered everyones questions.

Thanks.


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Bruz, 
I have lurked here for a while. But havent contributed, as I have only recently started doing hunt tests and training. I cant send PMs yet.
I can receive them though.
Thanks.


----------



## dpate (Mar 16, 2011)

If it were me I would 1. rule out medical problems 2. talk to your pro and 3. get with an experienced, proven trainer who specializes in behavioral problems and aggression. 

I would not want to take the chance and try to diagnose and resolve this problem on my own.


----------



## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

Again this is NOT something that should be solved via internet.
We here are NOT present during the attacks and can only guess what is going on.
Please seek professional help immediately for everyone's safety.
This is NOT normal behavior.
I wish you all the best.
Sue


----------



## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

MikeF said:


> As far as obedience, he is excellent. He gets obedience every day when we go for excercise. He never questions me. Only at night when he has his hackles up. I havent thrown bumpers to reward his behavior, but maybe this is how he sees it. I have been just trying to break his behavior. If I get him doing something else, he quits.
> 
> As far as my kids being safe, I watch very carefully. He has NEVER been aggressive at all to them. Kids friend stuck a straw up his nose last week, dog licked him and wagged his tail. He is careful not to knock them over. He does not chase them like an Alpha I owned used to.He is never left unsupervised around them.They are not allowed him while he eats. I work in an ER and used to work Peds ICU. I am well aware of dog bites and the damage they do.
> 
> ...


Jeebus, no freaking way that dog should be allowed around children until you figure this out! Don't let the ones that rely on you to protect them become a statistic on your watch. The family pets that bite are always friendly until they're not so stop being ridiculous and get this dog straight.


----------



## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

For the safety of your family, you need to get all health issues ruled out with this dog immediately. If it is not a physical problem, I would then talk to your trainer and the breeder. There is a procedure Nothing In Life Is Free that could be very helpful if this is not a physical problem. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm I hope that you will be able to find a solution that is good for you, your family and the dog.


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Judging by the comments stating I should get rid of him, put him down, etc. Maybe I painted him worse than I should of in an attempt to be honest. I have talked to a friend that is also a nationally known and respected GSP trainer. He has been around the dog. He doesnt think this dog is bad at all. I know his regular trainer thinks he is a GREAT dog.

So while I appreciate the concern, I am trying to avoid getting rid of him.It will break my kids hearts if we get rid of him. We did have to get rid of the last one as he was a TRUE alpha and a fighter from day one.He was dangerous to have around kids at all. No one that was around him for very long liked him. Even my friend the trainer thought he was no good.

I'll do what I need to do, whatever that turns out to be.Whether that be meds, more training, kennel, neuter, etc.


----------



## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Sue Kiefer said:


> Again this is NOT something that should be solved via internet.
> We here are NOT present during the attacks and can only guess what is going on.
> Please seek professional help immediately for everyone's safety.
> This is NOT normal behavior.
> ...


I agree. Also, I have a different take on this. The video set him off and now you and nighttime are associated with the video. Why did the video set him off? Did something on that video strike a chord---the sounds, the voice, the beating, etc.?
Talk to a behaviorist about the whole thing. Counterconditioning might be the answer.


----------



## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Also, protect your family from him but my guess is that the growling is at you only.


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> So no one thinks there is any type of a fear reaction, however misplaced it might be, going on here? Almost always after dark......


This may be a reach but early signs of PRA are night blindness. There are also other types of night blindness in dogs. Google it. There are tests you an do or go to a canine opthalmologist. Was the meter reader at night? Was the jogger at night? Are his eyes more dialated in lower light situations during the day?


> I have talked to a friend that is also a nationally known and respected GSP trainer. He has been around the dog. He doesnt think this dog is bad at all. I know his regular trainer thinks he is a GREAT dog.


 If the trainer that thinks he isn't bad hasn't seen him in action growling, they can't judge what is going on. He hasn't been at the trainers since Sept so if this just started coming on he didn't see the episodes either. This just isn't right and I would not put the kids caring about the dog above their safety.


----------



## Longgun (Sep 19, 2009)

Are you on any meds because of your surgery and when do you take them? As well seizures usually come while the dog is at rest, either asleep or just relaxing. So if they are at night it could be some kind of seizure although I have never seen a seizure where they become violent. They do not seem to know who their owners are after a seizure so it might fit.
deb


----------



## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

Another stretch, but do you think he might be sensing your current "weakness" because of the back surgery?

The NILIF program works very well and isn't that difficult, although your kids probably won't be able to participate, LOL. Getting an evaluation by a trainer (the one you worked with prior would be a good start, since he is familiar with how the dog was *then*), and a health check would be my next steps.

In the meantime, crate time at night to manage the problem, lots of obedience, and NILIF 24/7. If necessary, send him back to the trainer while your back heals. Take care and good luck.


----------



## BuddyJ (Apr 22, 2011)

Send him to the trainer and get him out of the house until you are well. when you bring him back home ( and this ain't pretty) if he bows up at you slam him on the floor on his back and hold him there for several minutes or until he quits struggling and gives in to you, don't forget to cuss and yell no, no, no repeatedly while you are holding him down and staring into his eyes, when he "gives up" call him to you and pet and love on him, if this takes over three sessions you are best advised to get rid of him. I've had to do this in the past with Dobermans and Shepherds and it has been a good fix on dogs that did not have mental issues. Hope it works, sounds like a really nice dog otherwise.


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

gdgync,
Yes that is the first time. He was sleeping at my feet. Jumped up with a panicked look, and started growling. The dog in the video was screaming and crying. As soon as I realized what was going on I turned it off. But too late. Yes, I am the only one he growls at. Except for the 2 previously mentioned strangers, both men.
He is a very nice dog at all other times.
I do believe he senses my weakness right now. I have been home for over a month. And frankly, his growling has me nervous at night any more.Im sure he picks up on that too, but not sure how to hide it.



He will be crated every night until this is worked out.And after I talk to his normal trainer he may be spending a month in that kennel if he has space and time.The NILF program looked good. 

The other trainer is not his regular trainer. He has spent a little time with Jake. And he spent a lot of time with the last dog that was horrible. He also has 25 years experience training national caliber dogs. He has trained many problem dogs. Although he hasnt seen this behavior yet, I have talked about it with him. And I do trust his experience.

I came here to hear other ideas. Just dont want to overlook anything.
Thanks again.


----------



## Haije Volbeda (Apr 6, 2012)

I thik you are not dominant enough, dog are livving in a pack and he is trying to be the dominant mail. or accapt what in my opinion is not an option. Put your dog in its place and do it the richt way strict an honnest. one correction will do the thrick and it better be a good correction so you wont have to do it a second time. other wise you are starting a ficht on longer terms

Greetings Haije Volbeda,
gundogtrainer Netherlands


----------



## featherqwest (Dec 15, 2007)

Post removed because it was not good.


----------



## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

MikeF

I have sent a PM.


----------



## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

ron david said:


> I agree with this.I would check what your dogs relationship is like with the trainer. one never knows what is happening when your not there. there are some horror stories out there.
> ron


We are thinking along the same lines. And don't expect your pro to admit to using strong techniques.


----------



## Bruz (Jan 21, 2012)

BUT everyone......

This BEHAVOIR DID NOT MANIFEST ITSELF UNTIL HIS SURGERY.

If you hear hoof beats in the meadow dou you first suspect a Zebra or a Horse?

Does the trainer use a Whiffle Ball Bat as a training aid? Maybe....but that had nothing to do with the surgery. 

Robert


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Bruz said:


> BUT everyone......
> 
> This BEHAVOIR DID NOT MANIFEST ITSELF UNTIL HIS SURGERY.
> 
> ...


Reread his post carefully-the behavior started when he heard the video-he had the back surgery later. I do think he heard something from his past or something was done to him and he had a flashback. I think it's really important that the OP not go out on a tangent. The dog is coming into his maturity. I think the medical examinations should come first. I think it would be a good idea to neuter him-it may not help but down the line it won't hurt. If you do a search often this is the time the dogs change demeanor, between two and three, and this is the time we get the posts. These challenging kinds of dogs don't need to be intact. I would check his eyes out.


----------



## Bruz (Jan 21, 2012)

MikeF said:


> .
> 
> Nothing drastic has changed in the house recently. Other than my surgery.
> 
> .


EE,

Sorry....I had this in my mind when I made my post....No Coffee yet this morning. 

Robert


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Sue Kiefer said:


> Again this is NOT something that should be solved via internet.
> We here are NOT present during the attacks and can only guess what is going on.
> Please seek professional help immediately for everyone's safety.
> This is NOT normal behavior.
> ...


Agree please follow the message.


----------



## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

talk to pete here on rtf. he is in idaho. 

a year and a half or so back a guy had a chessie that attacked his owner in the kitchen. he took the dog to pete and spent a couple of weeks. the owner posted positive results. he even jammed a derby while he was there. 

did we ever hear how the chessie is doing?


----------



## Eli M (Jan 24, 2012)

MikeF said:


> Judging by the comments stating I should get rid of him, put him down, etc. *Maybe I painted him worse than I should of in an attempt to be honest*. I have talked to a friend that is also a nationally known and respected GSP trainer. He has been around the dog. He doesnt think this dog is bad at all. I know his regular trainer thinks he is a GREAT dog.
> 
> So while I appreciate the concern, I am trying to avoid getting rid of him.It will break my kids hearts if we get rid of him. We did have to get rid of the last one as he was a TRUE alpha and a fighter from day one.He was dangerous to have around kids at all. No one that was around him for very long liked him. Even my friend the trainer thought he was no good.
> 
> I'll do what I need to do, whatever that turns out to be.Whether that be meds, more training, kennel, neuter, etc.


Ok, are you sure you didn't paint an accurate pic of him and are looking for an excuse to not upset the kids and your self?


----------



## Glenn Norton (Oct 23, 2011)

It is time for the "laying of the hands". He must know who the boss is!!!!!!!!
If you don't take a stand you will reget it.


----------



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Eli M said:


> Ok, are you sure you didn't paint an accurate pic of him and are looking for an excuse to not upset the kids and your self?


I've had some PM exchange with one of the posters on this topic. I'd written something earlier that was a bit counter to what one of the other respondents wrote.

Honestly, I did not write publicly what I was thinking. I did not do that because it is impossible to see with our mind's eye, what's really happening when we read the words on the screen.

This could be anywhere from a dog that's ticking and could eventually explode, to a dog who's being a smart-aleck and needs a little attitude check. 

It's so personal when we get into these situations and try to plot a path to a new place. I give the original poster credit for having the guts and nerve to post this. I hear on a daily basis from folks who are afraid to post, due to the way they've seen other topics head.

This thread has had all sorts of excellent ideas. I've learned some things in this thread and gained some new ideas that I hope to retain in my mental toolkit for a day that they may help.

This original poster has made it clear that part of his goal is to not upset his family by having to do something overly extreme with this dog.

Erinsedge has made some comments since my last post in this thread that are totally logical. I'd be looking into what she's suggested if this were me.

Chris


----------



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I have not read all of the posts , but I would have him evaluated by an opthamologist. PRA is worse at night in the beginning and other issues with the eye are worse at night.


----------



## D Osborn (Jul 19, 2004)

Most people have suggested taking him to the vet, and I would ask retriever people in the area for a good one. 
I have heard of this a few times, and there are, in my mind, four outcomes.
Medical issue- can be fixed, check hearing, thyroid, prostate (and yes this can cause this) and anything else including tick titers.
Medical-can't be fixed, escalates quickly, generally brain issue, or loose screw which shows up at maturity
Non-medical- can be worked through, but you need someone who understands aggressive vs fearful vs confused
Non-medical- can't be trusted ever, should not be around your children
None of this can be fixed by the internet - but you have been given a good starting point.
In the meantime, don't punish him for growling, as he is warning you. Until you have worked with a professional, that is so much better than just biting you. I would crate him at night, as he knows you are cautious around you. And I would be cautious with him around your kids until he is looked at by a vet.


----------



## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

featherqwest said:


> Welcome to my world. My dog won't train with the E-collar on. You are putting lots of pressure on the dog and yelling. I just whisper. If the dog is fine with the collar off. Leave it off. If he growls at the kids then it time to rehome the dog to someone who can rehab the dog. I have a big bite mark from one of my females who bit me. She attacked me and my old dog. She lasted about 6 months and I sold her to a money breeder. If you can't train the dog yourself then don't have one.


Sold her to a "money breeder"??? Wow.  I'm disappointed that someone dealing w/ an aggression issue would not FIRST make damned SURE that dog could never reproduce.

The OP has gotten some good suggestions here.


----------



## ron david (Mar 14, 2012)

windycanyon said:


> Sold her to a "money breeder"??? Wow.  I'm disappointed that someone dealing w/ an aggression issue would not FIRST make damned SURE that dog could never reproduce.
> 
> The OP has gotten some good suggestions here.


that is the way that a lot are in our society are; can't fix it yourself, so shove it off onto someone else
ron


----------



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

windycanyon said:


> Sold her to a "money breeder"??? Wow.  I'm disappointed that someone dealing w/ an aggression issue would not FIRST make damned SURE that dog could never reproduce.
> 
> The OP has gotten some good suggestions here.


 
NO KIDDING!!!!


----------



## bholt75 (Nov 17, 2011)

Dman said:


> Rule out any health issues, then what Bert said.
> Under no circumstances should this be tolerated Definately don't take the dog outside and throw bumpers. You are rewarding the behavior.
> Stop it now before it gets much worse.


X2 on this bumpers are fun... Fun comes with good behavior


----------



## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Sue Keifer has offered the best advise here, too many people are making overly simplified assumptions that may be right or could be way off base. You could inadvertantly make the problem worse since none of us are there with you to see exactly what's going on.

When I brought up the subject of discussing this with your Pro I wasn't implying that the problem was caused by your Pro, I assumed that your pro like most that I know, probably has a better understanding of your dog, his temperment, hot and cold buttons than you do. That is where I would start, I would also talk to your vet as it is a red flag whenever a dog's temperment changes overnight. I find it hard to believe that the video caused the problem.

John


----------



## DaveHare (Sep 17, 2011)

Wade said:


> Punch him in the nose


Wade I am with you on this one.
Dave Hare


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks,
Ive gotten some great ideas here. Ive gotten some great PMs, unfortunately I cant PM back. Ill be getting him medically checked out. I am crating him at night now.And I will continue to excercise every day within my own physical limits. We are walking about 2 miles a day , with him allowed to run free for about half a mile. He gets a few blinds a day while we are walking. He gets to swim in the river a couple times a week.

And to those that asked, no Im not trying to justify his behavior so that I can keep him. I may be new to retriever games and training. But I have owned dogs my whole life. It is not fair to him to just get rid of him without trying everything in my power to change his behavior.


Anyway, thanks for everyones concern, and all the helpful advice. I will be following some of it.


----------



## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Good luck.

Punishing an already fearful (sounding) dog? Really??? Gosh!! Not in my universe.


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Nathan,
I Emailed you through your web site. I cant PM.
Thanks,
Mike


----------



## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

This issue is too touchy to figure out via the internet, but I hope you figure it out. I'd rule out medical issues first, because it's very odd for a loving family dog to suddenly turn into Cujo, without a real world cause.

I have had a dog with mild seizures, initially it would always happen at night, or maybe that's when we noticed them because he was in the house. Looking back at it He would be growling aggressive strange after these slight episodes, which really put us off because it seemed to come from no-where. We started to kennel him at night, he was a lot more secure in there. One day he had an attack we could recognize as a seizure. Then it was off to the vet, who said that he'd probably been having mild-silent seizures for awhile, if not years. They put him on some anti-seizure medication and we haven't had another episode.

Still it could also be a young boy feeling his oats. In your weaken condition, you don't have the physicality to respond correctly to this. If he's allowed to get away with slight episodes, to which you can't respond, it's very likely they will escalate, making the problem much harder to solve. In such a case, I'd strongly consider sending the dog off into training for a time. Until I was physically able to address him and take back over myself. I'm sure he could benefit from some structure and mental work, drills, water-forcing, etc. are a lot more demanding than walks, at home OB, etc. Terrible to have all that potential and energy caged in the house, causing problems, when you have pro who you trust, who might also be able to provide you with a better assessment on this issue. Often times Pros are very good and diagnosing medical issues versus training issues they know dogs and can usually tell when somethings up.

P.S. if you post 10 times, which your very likely to do a thread like this you can send PMs


----------



## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

You have been given good advice. I would rule out any medical problems. If a dog came at me once that is one thing but if it continued they would be gone! Good luck to you!


----------



## featherqwest (Dec 15, 2007)

windycanyon said:


> Sold her to a "money breeder"??? Wow.  I'm disappointed that someone dealing w/ an aggression issue would not FIRST make damned SURE that dog could never reproduce.
> 
> The OP has gotten some good suggestions here.


Dog never reproduced. The issues were from her being around other bitches in heat. Dog was fine as long as she was the only dog in the house.


----------



## Guest (Apr 17, 2012)

featherqwest said:


> Dog never reproduced. The issues were from her being around other bitches in heat. Dog was fine as long as she was the only dog in the house.


Apologies to the OP for hijacking, but if she never reproduced, why mention the money breeder?


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Not to go off topic but.. what is a money breeder and why would one do that???before you truly know what is wrong???and why?


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Aussie,
Dont know if that was for me.
I am not punishing him yet. I truly think he is fearful, however misplaced.
I have crated him every night since starting this thread. No more problems so far. He will see the vet in the next couple days.Ill let you all know how he progresses.


----------



## goldust (May 12, 2005)

Labs have been known to have Rage Syndrome. This is usually a Springer problem but I have known of a very few Labs that have it as well. Google Rage Symdrome and see if it fits your situation.


----------



## duckwater (Apr 23, 2010)

Growl back.. Seriously !!


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Ive been crating him in the basement at night since I started this thread. 
No more growling. His attitude is better. He seems happier. More playful.
Hate not having him upstairs at night, but if this is all it takes, I am happy.


----------



## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

MikeF said:


> Ive been crating him in the basement at night since I started this thread.
> No more growling. His attitude is better. He seems happier. More playful.
> Hate not having him upstairs at night, but if this is all it takes, I am happy.


Makes a ton of sense. You gave him protection from whatever was stressing him out.


----------



## Kasomor (Nov 29, 2008)

Did you ever get him checked out by a vet? 

Neurologist? Ophthalmologist? Thyroid tested?


----------



## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

I call that being smart. After all, we train smart, don't we? Good luck.


----------



## tbro (Mar 30, 2011)

I am happy for you Mike! I know you are not totally out of the woods yet but you and your pal are making strides in the right direction. It would still be wise to have the Vet work done and if the results are negative I would put the whole issue to bed and concentrate on why you bought him in the first place...To hunt, test and be your Best Bud. If I remember correctly it was one of the first responses you received that suggested crating him at night. That's what makes this forum so great. There are a lot of smart people that truly care about dogs ...and their handlers! Continued good luck to you Mike. I hope you have long and happy experience with your dog.


----------



## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

Bruz said:


> My take from breeding American Pits and Chow Chows for years.
> 
> *Your dog senses your weakness. *You just had surgery and prior to that you were probably weaker and in pain I assume.
> 
> ...



good luck with your situation. Dogs are very intuitive, I have one with some issues as well toward other dogs. Rolling him and punching him in the nose has never solved a thing. Been there, done that. Read all the posts and this one is one is very possible. Get some expert help. Good luck --


----------



## MikeF (Feb 16, 2010)

Took him in to meet his new vet. One that is used to working dogs. And the one I have had multiple recommendations for his hip and elbow Xrays. They gave him a clean bill of health. But he has not been to a neurologist, or an opthamologist. Unless he revisits his behavior, I am not going to bother going further. I will be keeping a close eye on him for some time.

He starts swimby training this week. 

And I go back to work later this week.

Thanks everyone for your help, and the tons of PMs I got also. 

Im just glad my goofy happy lab is back. And so are my kids.


----------

