# 2021 NARC



## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Who is your favorite team?


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## Judd (Nov 29, 2012)

I’m partial to Moses and he’s got 4 offspring running. Luke, Oakley, Crash, and Amos. Luke and Oakley and 3/4 siblings to my girl. Hopefully they make it deep.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Alex abraham with Tucker and Doug Haymans with Ranger only because they are local guys i train with


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## Gregg0211 (Feb 11, 2015)

I wonder if there will be another one of those poles where you can pick your favorites and see how it turns out. I dont remember where it was, but it was fun.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Gregg0211 said:


> I wonder if there will be another one of those poles where you can pick your favorites and see how it turns out. I dont remember where it was, but it was fun.


Yep, the "pick'em" will be on Entry Express


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Gregg0211 said:


> I wonder if there will be another one of those poles where you can pick your favorites and see how it turns out. I dont remember where it was, but it was fun.


Look on EE


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Judd said:


> I’m partial to Moses and he’s got 4 offspring running. Luke, Oakley, Crash, and Amos. Luke and Oakley and 3/4 siblings to my girl. Hopefully they make it deep.


I sure as heck hope your right.


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## Gregg0211 (Feb 11, 2015)

birddogn_tc said:


> Yep, the "pick'em" will be on Entry Express


I had a large time with that on the NRC.


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## Judd (Nov 29, 2012)

bjoiner said:


> I sure as heck hope your right.


Good luck brother


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

So many good dogs and a huge field (and still room to grow) this year. Will be fun to see what happens.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

I hope Mickey can pull one out. I'd like to see a dog who is as consistent as he is get it done at the big show.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

151 Entries after closing last night. One more qualifying weekend this weekend, so a few more possible late entries. As most of you know, this is a large Amateur due to the 2020 qualifiers carrying over from last year. I think Retriever News was close in their prediction of entries. I am assuming this is possibly the largest National Am? I know it is the largest from the last 10 years. 

2010 - 112 entries
2011 - 114 entries
2012 - 116 entries
2013 - 124 entries
2014 - 104 entries
2015 - 134 entries
2016 - 110 entries
2017 - 138 entries
2018 - 99 entries
2019 - 130 entries
2020 - cancelled


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Judges will probably have to get serious a lot earlier than normal.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

June19-29, that’s eleven days up from eight days a couple of years ago. I’m sure the intent is to maintain the desired two mistakes before you are out although circumstances and when the mistakes are made an often change that. With that size entry splitting tests is inevitable and could happen for as long as a week or possibly longer. I certainly do not envy the judges, long hours in the field for at least 10 days not counting set up.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

EdA said:


> With that size entry splitting tests is inevitable and could happen for as long as a week or possibly longer


Sorry for the ignorance, not sure exactly what you mean by splitting tests in this instance?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> Sorry for the ignorance, not sure exactly what you mean by splitting tests in this instance?


Starting a test one day but not finishing it until the next day. Undesirable but unavoidable. Sometimes conditions can change dramatically overnight making the test much harder or much easier for those who run the second day.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

I'm rooting for the team of Tracy Gray Wight and the Birdboy Survival Story of the Century, as lived through by her training help at Mondovi (and Dad), 84-year-old US Army aviator Capt. (Ret.) David "Mad Dog" Gray.

MG


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## GunnersUp (Oct 15, 2020)

crackerd said:


> I'm rooting for the team of Tracy Gray Wight and the Birdboy Survival Story of the Century, as lived through by her training help at Mondovi (and Dad), 84-year-old US Army aviator Capt. (Ret.) David "Mad Dog" Gray.
> 
> MG


Tracy and here hounds are running very well right now and will be fun to watch. Tracy's dad is incredibly fun to be around and visit with. He is immensely proud of his daughter and her dogs and rightfully so! Can't wait to see him again, have a drink, and here first hand what ejecting through the canopy of a fighter jet is like. Amazing story and lucky to be alive to tell it.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Jake, Lily and myself are rooting for Lilys mom “Just”.


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## Judd (Nov 29, 2012)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Jake, Lily and myself are rooting for Lilys mom “Just”.
> View attachment 86684


That was a nice litter!


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Below is the sire info with more than 1 offspring entered in the 2021 NARC (less any final entries after this weekend)


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

birddogn_tc said:


> Below is the sire info with more than 1 offspring entered in the 2021 NARC (less any final entries after this weekend)
> 
> View attachment 86685


Lanes Let Get Ready To Rumble - 4
Fen Wizard - 4
Meadow Woods Lawnman - 3
Rev Blue Genes - 3
Seaside's Gorgeous George - 3
Carbons Blue Pursuit - 2
Nick of Time Lone Ranger - 2
Trumarc's Hollandaise - 2


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Here are the Dams with multiple puppies running
DamPattons Blazen Abby4​Contender's Marina Del Rey3​Creek Robbers Black Powder Mag3​Indi Go Girl UD3​Kerry Around A Duk Dawg3​Kirkwood's Ace Of Lone Star3​Maple Creek's Mattie Mae3​Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog3​Seaside's Warrior Princess ***3​Baypoint Gypsy2​Castlebay's Maple Leaf2​Creek Robbers Santa Ana Winds2​Dance Hall Gal2​In The Hunt Farm's Executive Sweet2​Lil Whiskey Girl2​Little Dipper "Darby"2​My Rock's Hallelujah To The Lord2​Revitt Up's Freedom Fighter2​Ten Bears Lady Abagail2​Texaco's High Tesse2​Wight's Goddess Of Victory2​


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

Maple Creek's Mattie Mae & Candlewoods Life is a Highway should be updated to 4 each. All 4 are from the same litter.

5 dogs in the litter, 4 dogs are Field Champions, National Qualifiers & National Finalists.

Congrats to Kara & David McMahan for doing such a wonderful litter!!!!


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Reginald said:


> Maple Creek's Mattie Mae & Candlewoods Life is a Highway should be updated to 4 each. All 4 are from the same litter.
> 
> 5 dogs in the litter, 4 dogs are Field Champions, National Qualifiers & National Finalists.
> 
> Congrats to Kara & David McMahan for doing such a wonderful litter!!!!


I only see three entered on EE


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Anybody ran the numbers on the dogs that were qualified but didn't enter?


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Chad Baker said:


> Anybody ran the numbers on the dogs that were qualified but didn't enter?


I heard aprox 180 qualified, did not check myself. 
I know of one that is deceased, one retired and one that will retire after the first series flier.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I heard aprox 180 qualified, did not check myself.
> I know of one that is deceased, one retired and one that will retire after the first series flier.


191 according to RN, one more weekend to go


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

I sure hope they get lucky and get some cooler weather.


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## J. Marti (May 2, 2014)

I am not a lab person but I am interested in the genetics of performance. Anyone who can connect the dots on who on this list is related to who? 

And also the same for the dams with multiple offspring?



birddogn_tc said:


> Below is the sire info with more than 1 offspring entered in the 2021 NARC (less any final entries after this weekend)
> 
> View attachment 86687


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## JKOttman (Feb 3, 2004)




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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

Anybody know if Mully is running. He's getting up there in age...


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

ripline said:


> Anybody know if Mully is running. He's getting up there in age...


He is


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

What does it take to qualify for either national event in the field trial arena?


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

An all age win plus 2 points.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Thanks.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

We are planning to watch one day of testing. Probably after the 6th series has been concluded. I hear that the grounds are spectacular! Hoping that all involved are treated to some nice weather. -Paul


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

paul young said:


> I hear that the grounds are spectacular!


You heard correct. The hilly terrain is very challenging, especially for dogs that have not seen much of it. Most will be training this week on similar terrain, if they can find it.


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## Windjammer (May 29, 2014)

,


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

drunkenpoacher said:


> The hilly terrain is very challenging, especially for dogs that have not seen much of it. Most will be training this week on similar terrain, if they can find it.


And this is why this such a huge advantage to those that live and train daily in the area.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Reginald said:


> And this is why this such a huge advantage to those that live and train daily in the area.


There’s always an advantage playing at home.


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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

drunkenpoacher said:


> There’s always an advantage playing at home.


No matter where it is!


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

drunkenpoacher said:


> There’s always an advantage playing at home.


Not like this there isn't.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Reginald said:


> Not like this there isn't.


 How so?


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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

Reginald said:


> Not like this there isn't.


Exactly what are you saying, insinuating?


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## Judd (Nov 29, 2012)

I think the term HOME is used quite literally in this instance


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

The NARC is always on someones home grounds.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Look back at past nationals and see the % that have won on home grounds. It could be a curse as much as a help. Lots of weekend judges throw the best long retired marks, most nationals don't have the time to throw that mark and look for something shorter and not in the obvious places. Just my 2cts.


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## Kyle Garris (Oct 27, 2005)

Chad Baker said:


> Look back at past nationals and see the % that have won on home grounds. It could be a curse as much as a help. Lots of weekend judges throw the best long retired marks, most nationals don't have the time to throw that mark and look for something shorter and not in the obvious places. Just my 2cts.


What do you know about National Amateurs?


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## Kyle Garris (Oct 27, 2005)

Kyle Garris said:


> What do you know about National Amateurs?


I’m kidding people! Calm down lol


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

ripline said:


> Exactly what are you saying, insinuating?


I could be wrong, but I believe Reginald is saying there is a big home field advantage at this particular location because the grounds, as Pat Burns recently said in a video, "are some of the most extreme terrain that any grounds are in the country". Pat also mentioned the difficulty at these grounds because of the thick cover and humidity/heat that is expected at this event.


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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

Sounds like the judges can separate the wheat from the chaff easily then. One would think all participants would train for the conditions they face at a venue that is selected year(s) in advance!
If not, shame on them!


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

ripline said:


> Sounds like the judges can separate the wheat from the chaff easily then. One would think all participants would train for the conditions they face at a venue that is selected year(s) in advance!
> If not, shame on them!


The problem is mimicking the conditions. There are very few places that have the terrain that Mondovi. I’ve judged there and it is beautiful, but I’m haven’t seen a place like it in my life.


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

bjoiner said:


> The problem is mimicking the conditions. There are very few places that have the terrain that Mondovi. I’ve judged there and it is beautiful, but I’m haven’t seen a place like it in my life.


Finally, Thank you Bubba!!! And thank you Pat Burns. 

How was your first day trying to "simulate" those conditions out at Brays property?


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Reginald said:


> Finally, Thank you Bubba!!! And thank you Pat Burns.
> 
> How was your first day trying to "simulate" those conditions out at Brays property?


Bray’s is as close as I’ve seen. It’s was a very good day. Information overload training with Danny and Lynn the past two days. I’ve got one tired puppy tonight.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

ripline said:


> Sounds like the judges can separate the wheat from the chaff easily then. One would think all participants would train for the conditions they face at a venue that is selected year(s) in advance!
> If not, shame on them!


There’s not much chaff at a National Championship Stake. Of course we try to simulate conditions but geographic limitations abound. Those of us in the Great Plains don’t have big tree lines, cut corn fields, or cover in the water but those are things our dogs have been exposed to at Nationals in the Midwest but thanks for the advice.😉

My first experience as Chairman of the NRC one of the judges spent a considerable amount of time at setup looking for Michigan. Finally in frustration I told him, “&@%#& this is Oklahoma, not Michigan, we do not have cover in the water here. We do have beautiful rolling hills and interesting shorelines and you can see forever.

Good luck to my friends who are qualified, wish I was there too. I’ve got a very promising two year old so I am hopeful. When I looked at the entry I realized how fast this game changes. I have not run a National in 5-6 years and I do not recognize the names of more than 50% of the participants (of course they don’t recognize my name either).😎


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

EdA said:


> I do not recognize the names of more than 50% of the participants (of course they don’t recognize my name either).😎


You do recognize that, at your age, being willing to do the grind of pup to AA competitor to qualify for another National is commendable.


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

bjoiner said:


> Bray’s is as close as I’ve seen. It’s was a very good day. Information overload training with Danny and Lynn the past two days. I’ve got one tired puppy tonight.


Well, how did today go at the Benton county grounds go?


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Very pleasant forecast for the Mondovi area.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Very pleasant forecast for the Mondovi area.
> View attachment 86734


Great news. What a relief they are going to get a slight break from the extreme heat


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Pullin for Ted!


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

The smart money is all on #77


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> The smart money is all on #77


Anyone betting on a specific dog in this thing isn’t concerned about losing $$$$. I give you 1994 NAFC Lady Andrel’s Nighthawk Lady who absolutely no one would have pre trial picked as the winner. There are several other examples but that one is the most extreme.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

EdA said:


> Anyone betting on a specific dog in this thing isn’t concerned about losing $$$$.


No real $$$.
Lily's mom is #77


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

EdA said:


> Anyone betting on a specific dog in this thing isn’t concerned about losing $$$$. I give you 1994 NAFC Lady Andrel’s Nighthawk Lady who absolutely no one would have pre trial picked as the winner. There are several other examples but that one is the most extreme.


Would love to know why she is the most extreme?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> Would love to know why she is the most extreme?


Look up her record pre and post


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

EdA said:


> There’s not much chaff at a National Championship Stake. Of course we try to simulate conditions but geographic limitations abound. Those of us in the Great Plains don’t have big tree lines, cut corn fields, or cover in the water but those are things our dogs have been exposed to at Nationals in the Midwest but thanks for the advice.😉
> 
> My first experience as Chairman of the NRC one of the judges spent a considerable amount of time at setup looking for Michigan. Finally in frustration I told him, “&@%#& this is Oklahoma, not Michigan, we do not have cover in the water here. We do have beautiful rolling hills and interesting shorelines and you can see forever.
> 
> Good luck to my friends who are qualified, wish I was there too. I’ve got a very promising two year old so I am hopeful. When I looked at the entry I realized how fast this game changes. I have not run a National in 5-6 years and I do not recognize the names of more than 50% of the participants (of course they don’t recognize my name either).😎



<<< fall line / tip o the mitt boy- laughing and enjoying the judging commentary along with the rest of this post.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

I would love to see Tucker win it he has 220 AA points with over 30 wins he is an amazing animal and could very well make it into the HOF one day he is getting up in age and not sure how much longer alex will be running him


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

EdA said:


> Look up her record pre and post


for those wondering, if her records on RR are correct, prior to 1994 she only ran 6 Am’s. However, she finished all 6 and won 3.

She was also a finalist in the 1993 NARC


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

birddogn_tc said:


> for those wondering, if her records on RR are correct, prior to 1994 she only ran 6 Am’s. However, she finished all 6 and won 3.
> 
> She was also a finalist in the 1993 NARC


I was on the grounds committee for setup & the entire trial. I would agree with Ed's assessment, she wasn't even mentioned in the
gossip going around. She did not come from what was considered a top circuit at that time.


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## Gary M (Dec 5, 2008)

birddogn_tc said:


> for those wondering, if her records on RR are correct, prior to 1994 she only ran 6 Am’s. However, she finished all 6 and won 3.
> 
> She was also a finalist in the 1993 NARC


RR historical data is only accurate from 1995 to present.


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## Frostyhollow (Feb 7, 2021)

Vance_kaz said:


> I would love to see Tucker win it he has 220 AA points with over 30 wins he is an amazing animal and could very well make it into the HOF one day he is getting up in age and not sure how much longer alex will be running him


There is a nice 2 year old out of Tucker and a Troubador female owned by the breeder of my current pup. I have my eye on him. 

Clearly there are many well known dogs and some sleepers that all have a shot but I’d love to see Al and Tucker win.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Frostyhollow said:


> There is a nice 2 year old out of Tucker and a Troubador female owned by the breeder of my current pup. I have my eye on him.
> 
> Clearly there are many well known dogs and some sleepers that all have a shot but I’d love to see Al and Tucker win.


If Tucker could win it would be the cherry on top to finnish out his long successful career but doug haymans and ranger are another pair im rooting for


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Good luck to all the dogs and handlers! Looking forward to keeping up with it. Hopefully Bubba checks in often to RTF to give some updates.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Does anyone know anything about what happened to Clooney? The blog said he appeared injured and picked up. Hope he is okay. Magnificent dog.


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## Judd (Nov 29, 2012)

2tall said:


> Does anyone know anything about what happened to Clooney? The blog said he appeared injured and picked up. Hope he is okay. Magnificent dog.


Rita said Cruciate on Facebook


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Judd said:


> Rita said Cruciate on Facebook


Oh no. Hope he mends well and quickly.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

3rd series will get some answers.


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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

Congrats to dog #30!!!
From the NARC blog.


*Retired - 30. NAFC-FC MULLIGAN OFF THE RAINY "T", "Mully" BLM, Randy Spangler*

For those of you who were not here this morning dog #30 NAFC-FC Mulligan Off The Rainy "T" came to the line to pick up his flyer and to bid us a farewell at his last national. Congratulations again to Randy and "Mully!"


What an incredible way to retire an incredible dog!!!


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

drunkenpoacher said:


> 3rd series will get some answers.


Yes it will


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Congratulations to Mully and the Spanglers for an incredible career!


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## waynesa1 (Aug 9, 2018)

drunkenpoacher said:


> 3rd series will get some answers.


4 of first 12 handled before shut down due to weather.


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

drunkenpoacher said:


> 3rd series will get some answers.


Why do you think that? Is there a bird that is really difficult to dig out?


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Reginald said:


> Why do you think that? Is there a bird that is really difficult to dig out?


That long middle bird is a tough one but some have handled on that right bird as well this series will cut the field for sure


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Reginald said:


> Why do you think that? Is there a bird that is really difficult to dig out?


I think both retired birds will get answers. Depending on conditions either could be the toughest, neither is easy.
Conditions supposed to be about the same tomorrow, less wind and a change of direction by Tuesday. It will take most of two days to finish.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Maybe mr joiner will join in and give us some insight


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Vance_kaz said:


> Yes it will


 Looking like a lot of answers.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Looking like a lot of answers.


I'm excited to see what the 4th looks like if there are any dogs left


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Vance_kaz said:


> I'm excited to see what the 4th looks like if there are any dogs left


There will be plenty left, the 4th would typically be the first water blind


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

EdA said:


> There will be plenty left, the 4th would typically be the first water blind


Still a lot left to run but it's a tough set up for sure 
So 4th will be water blind then 5th land blind?


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Vance_kaz said:


> Still a lot left to run but it's a tough set up for sure
> So 4th will be water blind then 5th land blind?


Maybe, but it doesn't have to be. I don't doubt that the 4th will be a WB as Ed predicts.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

It would seem the 3rd is possibly turning out to be a more difficult test than the judges anticipated.
If the sketch is accurate, a lot of handlers and dogs are making the middle bird more difficult than it was designed to be. -Paul


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Vance_kaz said:


> I'm excited to see what the 4th looks like if there are any dogs left


Even if they lose 25% of the dogs (which is about what the current avg is that have a handled or been picked up in this series), they will still have close to 90-100 dogs going to the 4th. 

132 dogs called back to the 3rd
25% cut would be 99 dogs to the 4th
30% cut would be 92 dogs to the 4th


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

paul young said:


> If the sketch is accurate, a lot of handlers and dogs are making the middle bird more difficult than it was designed to be.


No criticism of the artist intended, a sketch can’t capture the difficulty of this test.
If you saw the property you’d understand why that middle retired is so tough.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

drunkenpoacher said:


> No criticism of the artist intended, a sketch can’t capture the difficulty of this test.
> If you saw the property you’d understand why that middle retired is so tough.


even real pictures and drone pictures never do them justice either.


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## Gary M (Dec 5, 2008)

From the number of handles, comments here, the Blog updates, and the photos, it just looks to be incredibly difficult! Lots of dogs having problems with that long middle bird. Even some of the dogs without a handle are having issues, at least from what I gathered reading the Blog.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

birddogn_tc said:


> even real pictures and drone pictures never do them justice either.


You have to have seen it to appreciate the terrain.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

birddogn_tc said:


> Even if they lose 25% of the dogs (which is about what the current avg is that have a handled or been picked up in this series), they will still have close to 90-100 dogs going to the 4th.
> 
> 132 dogs called back to the 3rd
> 25% cut would be 99 dogs to the 4th
> 30% cut would be 92 dogs to the 4th


I was exaggerating alittle it's becoming very difficult for the dogs


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Vance_kaz said:


> I was exaggerating alittle it's becoming very difficult for the dogs


Oh, I figured you were but still thought I would share the numbers.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

paul young said:


> It would seem the 3rd is possibly turning out to be a more difficult test than the judges anticipated.
> If the sketch is accurate, a lot of handlers and dogs are making the middle bird more difficult than it was designed to be. -Paul


Or are they looking for answers because of such a large field of dogs?


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

Tobias said:


> Or are they looking for answers because of such a large field of dogs?


They're looking for answers because they're trying to find a winner.
Same as any trial regardless of the size of the field


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Vance_kaz said:


> Still a lot left to run but it's a tough set up for sure
> So 4th will be water blind then 5th land blind?


Fifth is traditionally big land marks, usually a quad, 6th a land blind then the script can vary depending on numbers of dogs and wind direction for the tests they have set up. In 2018 NRC we did WB in 7, marks in 8,9, and 10. 8 could be combo water land marks then 9 and 10 interchangeably water quad and land quad with multiple fliers.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Tobias said:


> Or are they looking for answers because of such a large field of dogs?


I believe the judges knew what they were doing with the bird placements.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Tobias said:


> Or are they looking for answers because of such a large field of dogs?


They definitely got answers


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Tobias said:


> Or are they looking for answers because of such a large field of dogs?


The National Champion should be a superior marker, there are generally only two sets of water marks and this is the first. They still have hours to run and conditions can and do change making the test harder or easier. As a judge if you take your foot off the gas at a National you are asking for trouble. I always tell my inexperienced co judge, you can call them back if they do bad but you can’t throw them out if they do good.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I believe the judges knew what they were doing with the bird placements.


Yes, people tend to train for momentum so a well placed short bird can be very effective, but they are getting quite a bit out of the long bird, not just in handles but in substantial hunts out of the area.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Gary M said:


> From the number of handles, comments here, the Blog updates, and the photos, it just looks to be incredibly difficult! Lots of dogs having problems with that long middle bird. Even some of the dogs without a handle are having issues, at least from what I gathered reading the Blog.


The Blog is grossly inaccurate so don’t put too much stock in that. They listed Fox as a pickup when in fact he had a double handle, not much difference relative to call backs but a very different scenario. The Blog is sanitized by design. There was a time that it was accurate but political correctness took charge.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

paul young said:


> It would seem the 3rd is possibly turning out to be a more difficult test than the judges anticipated.
> If the sketch is accurate, a lot of handlers and dogs are making the middle bird more difficult than it was designed to be. -Paul


I think it is every bit as difficult as they hoped it would be.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> No criticism of the artist intended, a sketch can’t capture the difficulty of this test.
> If you saw the property you’d understand why that middle retired is so tough.


I was referring to the teams that are "hitting all 3 pieces of water" on the middle mark. The route to that bird is not on that path at all, if the sketch is accurate.
The judges are not going to put up an easy test. They will make the contestants work for each and every bird, as they should.
Are you there today or were you there yesterday? Susan and I will be there for one day later this week. Looking forward to a great day watching great dogs and handlers. -Paul


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Maybe, but it doesn't have to be. I don't doubt that the 4th will be a WB as Ed predicts.


If the fifth was another blind that would mean that 60% of the first 5 series was blinds which no one wants unless conditions dictate that it is necessary. The fifth will be land marks and they will be tough.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

EdA said:


> I think it is every bit as difficult as they hoped it would be.


If the dog is too watery, it gets a lot tougher. That was the point i was trying to get across.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

paul young said:


> Are you there today or were you there yesterday? Susan and I will be there for one day later this week. Looking forward to a great day watching great dogs and handlers. -Paul


I will be there for at least a day or two later this week. My wife is there and I’ve talked to a few other people there.
It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the test after seeing the property.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

paul young said:


> If the dog is too watery, it gets a lot tougher.


Not watery enough can get them in trouble as well.
There are just a lot of factors and a lot of decisions a dog has to make in route to those birds.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I will be there for at least a day or two later this week. My wife is there and I’ve talked to a few other people there.
> It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the test after seeing the property.


Well, it will be a different set of tests, but I figure that the judges have arranged to use the very best grounds for the later tests. I expect they will be spectacular. -Paul


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Not watery enough can get them in trouble as well.
> There are just a lot of factors and a lot of decisions a dog has to make in route to those birds.


I was referring to the middle (long) bird, specifically. Perhaps some dogs are pushing off from the flyer. Others are just feeling the need to get wet.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

paul young said:


> If the dog is too watery, it gets a lot tougher. That was the point i was trying to get across.


Balance, balance, balance, is the dog marking the bird or choosing the route based on training, the great markers know the difference, they know where the birds are the route notwithstanding. Clever judges never put the marks in the places dogs would go naturally or because of training.


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## Kyle Garris (Oct 27, 2005)

11 straight without a handle? Did any of the conditions change?


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

paul young said:


> Well, it will be a different set of tests, but I figure that the judges have arranged to use the very best grounds for the later tests. I expect they will be spectacular. -Paul


Thought you might be looking over all the grounds while you were there.
Lots of good ground there. The property this test is on is as good as any of it.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Thought you might be looking over all the grounds while you were there.
> Lots of good ground there. The property this test is on is as good as any of it.


I don't think that's really Kosher. I wouldn't do it at a weekend trial, so I sure wouldn't do it at a national. I don't want to be 'that guy'. -Paul


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

birddogn_tc said:


> Good luck to all the dogs and handlers! Looking forward to keeping up with it. Hopefully Bubba checks in often to RTF to give some updates.


It is a very very good test. One you would typically see later on in a National. There are a ton of huge hunts that the blog likely can’t accurately describe. I would guess (not holding the book) they will loose a third of the field based on what I’ve seen. Several really nice dogs had a very tough time. This area of the county is stunning. I am pretty sure they will finish the third tomorrow and stop for the workers party. Conditions will change tomorrow, but I think this test will hold up.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

bjoiner said:


> It is a very very good test. One you would typically see later on in a National. There are a ton of huge hunts that the blog likely can’t accurately describe. I would guess (not holding the book) they will loose a third of the field based on what I’ve seen. Several really nice dogs had a very tough time. This area of the county is stunning. I am pretty sure they will finish the third tomorrow and stop for the workers party. Conditions will change tomorrow, but I think this test will hold up.


Thank you Bubba for the inside info. Best of luck to you. No handle for you in the third, and based on the description looks like you and Oakley did a good job.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Tobias said:


> Thank you Bubba for the inside info. Best of luck to you. No handle for you in the third, and based on the description looks like you and Oakley did a good job.


She worked hard. I ran last yesterday with no wind. She made a good recovery on the right hand bird. It is a very tough test. Excellent bird placement and has killed some very very nice teams.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

paul young said:


> Well, it will be a different set of tests, but I figure that the judges have arranged to use the very best grounds for the later tests. I expect they will be spectacular. -Paul


Most people would come to Wayne’s grounds and their mouths would hit the ground. They are spectacular. Jack’s grounds are right across the road and are equally as nice. I think after these two, they are planning on hitting the big hills at Spangler’s and then Parrot’s. You just can’t describe those two places.


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

paul young said:


> It would seem the 3rd is possibly turning out to be a more difficult test than the judges anticipated.
> If the sketch is accurate, a lot of handlers and dogs are making the middle bird more difficult than it was designed to be. -Paul


It seems to be that both retired birds are difficult to get


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Reginald said:


> It seems to be that both retired birds are difficult to get


You can challenge a great dog with a well placed bird


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

It doesn’t appear that the change of conditions today has made the test any easier.


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## GunnersUp (Oct 15, 2020)

The flyer station at 50 yards and on the left is what's causing a majority of the problems.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

GunnersUp said:


> The flyer station at 50 yards and on the left is what's causing a majority of the problems.


I would disagree with this. Both retired birds are extremely well place with a ton of room to run in the middle. Good angles on both birds and hard to find when you get there. I didn’t see many dogs flare the flyer or not see at least the bird thrower. Happy feet got more dogs in trouble than anything.


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

bjoiner said:


> I would disagree with this. Both retired birds are extremely well place with a ton of room to run in the middle. Good angles on both birds and hard to find when you get there. I didn’t see many dogs flare the flyer or not see at least the bird thrower. Happy feet got more dogs in trouble than anything.


However Bubba, I would venture to guess that not many dogs watched/saw the middle bird thrown. Swinging right past the middle bird to the flyer.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Reginald said:


> However Bubba, I would venture to guess that not many dogs watched/saw the middle bird thrown. Swinging right past the middle bird to the flyer.


I’m sure that happened with some dogs. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that not many saw the middle bird. If that were the case not many would’ve got it at all without a handle. For those that have never been to the grounds, that Middle retired bird would have got a few answers if it was ran as a single.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I’m sure that happened with some dogs. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that not many saw the middle bird. If that were the case not many would’ve got it at all without a handle. For those that have never been to the grounds, that Middle retired bird would have got a few answers if it was ran as a single.


The fact that they found the bird does not necessarily mean they watched it but that they saw the gun and if they remember that it is a matter of sorting through which side, however they must have conviction going up the hill. Short flier on the left distracts dogs from watching the second bird thrown regardless of the order but more so when the right bird is first. In significantly more than 50% of the trials I have run in the past few years there has been a short flier on the left. There are 5 other possible positionings for the flier, I don’t think it’s accidental.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

EdA said:


> The fact that they found the bird does not necessarily mean they watched it but that they saw the gun and if they remember that it is a matter of sorting through which side, however they must have conviction going up the hill. Short flier on the left distracts dogs from watching the second bird thrown regardless of the order but more so when the right bird is first. In significantly more than 50% of the trials I have run in the past few years there has been a short flier on the left. There are 5 other possible positionings for the flier, I don’t think it’s accidental.


I agree


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## Gary M (Dec 5, 2008)

40% (52) dropped after 3rd. That’s a lot of dogs!


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## rble7117 (Jul 23, 2020)

That middle long bird is sure a good setup after the third finished up. Wowzers!


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

Gary M said:


> 40% (52) dropped after 3rd. That’s a lot of dogs!


Dropped 52 dogs & They Carried five dogs with a handle.
Yowwzer!!


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## Judd (Nov 29, 2012)

tigerfan said:


> Dropped 52 dogs & They Carried five dogs with a handle.
> Yowwzer!!


Goes to show how watered down the blog can be


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Reginald said:


> However Bubba, I would venture to guess that not many dogs watched/saw the middle bird thrown. Swinging right past the middle bird to the flyer.


I would say from the dogs I saw, probably well in excess of 80% saw it. Even when they swung threw to the flier, the pop or handler pulled them out to see the bird.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Best of luck in the fourth! Or - May the Fourth be with you.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Seems like a great 3rd series at a National. Can’t wait to see what the next few days have in store.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

The judges had to cut the field to a manageable number and they did it with a great marking test.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> The judges had to cut the field to a manageable number and they did it with a great marking test.


The judges are certainly in an unenviable position with the number of starters but they do have 7 more days. 40% dropped in the 3rd series is without precedent but so is 151 starters. The tricky part for them (and one of the more difficult parts of judging a National IMO) is being consistent with drops, ie maintaining the same acceptable level of performance for the remainder of the trial. A mistake in an early series should be no more or no less important than the same mistake made in a later series. By my account 19 of the 52 who were dropped were dropped for hunting and/or hunting and problems on the land blind. The fact that they called back a few handles tells us they were looking at every bird retrieved thus far. The judges have a thankless task I would not want, it’s easier to be critical if you’ve never occupied that seat.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Back across the road to Unbehaun's this morning.
I think EdA is about to be proven right on his prediction of a water blind.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

EdA said:


> If the fifth was another blind that would mean that 60% of the first 5 series was blinds which no one wants unless conditions dictate that it is necessary. The fifth will be land marks and they will be tough.


Well it's a LB and not a terribly difficult one. 
No doubt because they have time to get a LB out of the way and would have had to split a marking test.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Well it's a LB and not a terribly difficult one.
> No doubt because they have time to get a LB out of the way and would have had to split a marking test.


Exactly, maximum utilization of time, they did not have to move and they could finish it. Generally the weakest tests at Nationals are land blinds for all of those reasons. We had a great one in 2018 which would have pared down the field but we never had time to run it or the wind was wrong when we dId have time to run it, our only tests I did not like were the land blinds, both were uninspiring.
And how would you like being the only dog dropped on that blind…..😳


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## Kyle Garris (Oct 27, 2005)

Good luck, Bubba! I don’t know if running first is a blessing or a curse.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Kyle Garris said:


> Good luck, Bubba! I don’t know if running first is a blessing or a curse.


Lighting and scenting conditions are not optimal in the early morning plus as a handler you don’t have the opportunity to observe the tendencies of the dogs which is magnified with a quad where there is often an order of pickup that is more successful. I concur, good luck Bubba!


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Well it's a triple with the flyer being changed to a drake mallard I'm guessing test dog didn't do so well and running as a triple will save 5 or so mins per run


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Vance_kaz said:


> Well it's a triple with the flyer being changed to a drake mallard I'm guessing test dog didn't do so well and running as a triple will have 5 or so mins per run


would the heat index have an impact on the decision to change to a triple?


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Tobias said:


> would the heat index have an impact on the decision to change to a triple?


Im sure I didn't even see that


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Tobias said:


> would the heat index have an impact on the decision to change to a triple?


I am here (there?) and yes it did. Very muggy and humid already. Dogs are coming back very warm.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I am here (there?) and yes it did. Very muggy and humid already. Dogs are coming back very warm.


I can only imagine. Sounds very much like our weather today. It must be excruciating for a handler to figure out how long is too long, on a hunt in today's conditions.


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## saltgrass (Sep 22, 2008)

Tuff conditions for sure. But I have a new team added to my list to pull for...

Good luck Bubba and Oakley!!!!


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

For being first dog to run Oakley showed the rest of the field how it should be done


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## rble7117 (Jul 23, 2020)

It was tough hearing Luke and Dan didnt make it in the third. Although, Luke’s 3 siblings are doing very good so far. That third knocked out great teams for sure!


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

It’s tough being first. Always good to do the test without a handle in that situation. Oakley gives me more effort than any I have seen. She did have a hunt on the left bird, but worked it out. Her other two were very good. It’s just an honor to compete against these dogs and stand beside mine. It is very hot for the dogs. The distances are straight line. If you included terrain, no telling how far. I threw the long retired for the second shift. It looks closer to 400+ yards. You feel like you’re in the movie Cliffhanger up there you are so high.


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## rble7117 (Jul 23, 2020)

bjoiner said:


> It’s tough being first. Always good to do the test without a handle in that situation. Oakley gives me more effort than any I have seen. She did have a hunt on the left bird, but worked it out. Her other two were very good. It’s just an honor to compete against these dogs and stand beside mine. It is very hot for the dogs. The distances are straight line. If you included terrain, no telling how far. I threw the long retired for the second shift. It looks closer to 400+ yards. You feel like you’re in the movie Cliffhanger up there you are so high.


Great run on the fourth, keep at it bubba and oakley!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Another substantial cut, 23 dogs


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Oakley tried her best. Unfortunately running first, she had a hunt on the long bird. She’s not done yet. We’ll be back next year.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Alot of great dogs cut I wish I could be there to watch because the blog doesn't get into great detail


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

bjoiner said:


> Oakley tried her best. Unfortunately running first, she had a hunt on the long bird. She’s not done yet. We’ll be back next year.


You are a considerable asset, running your dog then going to the field to throw birds. Good luck going forward, I hope to be there soon and will be happy to meet you.


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## JKOttman (Feb 3, 2004)

birddogn_tc said:


> for those wondering, if her records on RR are correct, prior to 1994 she only ran 6 Am’s. However, she finished all 6 and won 3.
> 
> She was also a finalist in the 1993 NARC


Right now RR goes back to 1993 with a few missing months. So dogs that competed prior to then will have incomplete info.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Maybe it's me not reading things right, but the callbacks show Bubba and Oakley being called back to the seventh series.


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## Jesus Ochoa (Apr 10, 2018)

Bubba and Oakley dog #60 did not get called back.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Yeah - I was hoping there was an error in their favor. Darn it.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Tobias said:


> Maybe it's me not reading things right, but the callbacks show Bubba and Oakley being called back to the seventh series.


Several others are incorrectly on the callback tally sheet as being back, apparently it has not been updated


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Leaving now, will be there around 10:30. 
Looks to be a very difficult triple. Glad to have the opportunity to watch it. -Paul


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## Kyle Garris (Oct 27, 2005)

What are the judges thinking right now, Dr. Ed? 47 dogs and series 7-10 remaining. How picky are they going to be in your estimation?


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

9 Dogs have run so far and 3 have been picked up according to the blog. Looks like the field is going to weed itself out.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Kyle Garris said:


> What are the judges thinking right now, Dr. Ed? 47 dogs and series 7-10 remaining. How picky are they going to be in your estimation?


The remaining series are generally set based on anticipated conditions, a drastic change could cause them use alternate tests. They have lots of useful information and it appears this test will provide more. The 8th will probably be a water blind on this property. That leaves 9 and 10 which are sometimes interchangeable depending on their desire to finish on land or in the water. Expect both to be quads with multiple fliers. The unwritten traditional National approach is that dogs are only dropped after 2 significant mistakes although an accumulation of lesser mistakes can equal that. Dogs that have been sloppy for two or more series are unlikely to make it to the end without spectacular work to come. They have an abundance of time now and it appears they could lose 10-15 more (or more) in the 7th. Twenty Finalists is not uncommon for the Amateur National. I would think that they would want to go to 9 with fewer than 30 dogs. If they lose 15 here and have a ball buster water blind they will be on target. A big water quad in 9 will pare the field more than a big land quad so which they choose will depend on numbers. The 10th can be a decider or it can be more show than substance. These judges appear to prefer substance.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

From the blog description it appears they are picking dogs up because the dogs are getting lost between middle and right bird and are unable to handle due to trees and unable to see the dog? 

Is that fair?


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Middle (short) retired is taking its toll.
Don’t have a strong enough signal to post a photo.
Overcast now but good visibility now, staying cool so far too.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Peter Balzer said:


> From the blog description it appears they are picking dogs up because the dogs are getting lost between middle and right bird and are unable to handle due to trees and unable to see the dog?
> 
> Is that fair?


I have heard no complaints about the test being unfair. If they go to the right of the middle bird they are in trouble.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> From the blog description it appears they are picking dogs up because the dogs are getting lost between middle and right bird and are unable to handle due to trees and unable to see the dog?
> 
> Is that fair?


I have only considered the ability of handlers to handle on a marking test when there are a few dogs back for the last series of a weekend trial. You can place handles but not pickups.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

EdA said:


> The remaining series are generally set based on anticipated conditions, a drastic change could cause them use alternate tests. They have lots of useful information and it appears this test will provide more. The 8th will probably be a water blind on this property. That leaves 9 and 10 which are sometimes interchangeable depending on their desire to finish on land or in the water. Expect both to be quads with multiple fliers. The unwritten traditional National approach is that dogs are only dropped after 2 significant mistakes although an accumulation of lesser mistakes can equal that. Dogs that have been sloppy for two or more series are unlikely to make it to the end without spectacular work to come. They have an abundance of time now and it appears they could lose 10-15 more (or more) in the 7th. Twenty Finalists is not uncommon for the Amateur National. I would think that they would want to go to 9 with fewer than 30 dogs. If they lose 15 here and have a ball buster water blind they will be on target. A big water quad in 9 will pare the field more than a big land quad so which they choose will depend on numbers. The 10th can be a decider or it can be more show than substance. These judges appear to prefer substance.


I always like the insight. Thank you sir.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I have heard no complaints about the test being unfair. If they go to the right of the middle bird they are in trouble.


I didn't mean to suggest any unfairness, I would just assume these teams would elect to attempt to handle instead of just "pick-up". So looking at the photos I didn't know if there was something physical preventing a handle. Maybe they were just so far off line there was no point?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> I didn't mean to suggest any unfairness, I would just assume these teams would elect to attempt to handle instead of just "pick-up". So looking at the photos I didn't know if there was something physical preventing a handle. Maybe they were just so far off line there was no point?


The decision to handle must be proactive and planned. After an extensive hunt and/or being far out of the area the decision is pointless because the damage has been done and a handle from a bad position is not going to be crisp or pretty. At that point most handlers are hoping for a miracle. Additionally one would have to gamble that their work was good enough to afford a quick handle so most, including me, hope except in the tenth series if you are fortunate enough to get there.


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## Norwester (Jul 1, 2015)

Is it just me or do both the 6th and 7th series look like in-line setups to some degree?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Norwester said:


> Is it just me or do both the 6th and 7th series look like in-line setups to some degree?


That never entered my mind, you must be like one of my very best long time field trial friends who sees in lines I never see. 😉


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## Norwester (Jul 1, 2015)

EdA said:


> That never entered my mind, you must be like one of my very best long time field trial friends who sees in lines I never see. 😉


Ha,ha,ha ....How would you describe them then?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Norwester said:


> Ha,ha,ha ....How would you describe them then?


Triples with dead birds of similar length, flyer on the left in one and on the right in the other. I will accept they have a similar configuration but the water in 7 changes the dog’s perception and the middle bird in 7 appears to be tight behind the flyer guns. Perhaps we have different ideas about what constitutes an inline triple. 🤔


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## Norwester (Jul 1, 2015)

EdA said:


> Triples with dead birds of similar length, flyer on the left in one and on the right in the other. I will accept they have a similar configuration but the water in 7 changes the dog’s perception and the middle bird in 7 appears to be tight behind the flyer guns. Perhaps we have different ideas about what constitutes an inline triple. 🤔


Maybe you're right and we have different ideas about what an in-line is. The flyer is at 199 yrds, the middle at 242 and the long right hand is at 292 yrds, about 50 yrds deeper with each gun going left to right and from the diagrams it looks like a pretty straight line.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

It did appear that some of the dogs could not find the handler especially early on.
Some of the dogs were a long ways off line and just didn’t handle over


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Looks like they could possibly finish this on Sunday.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Finally back to the RV after a long day.

The grounds were as spectacular, as I expected. The test was truly a great marking test. The guns were obvious and easy for the dog to pick out, with two guns on both retired marks. Their hides were very well constructed and really blended in well with their surroundings. Each individual mark was a solid test in and of itself, and each had a distinct AOF, with good separation from the other two, making for fair and consistent judging of the dogs. Conditions throughout the day changed a bit, as the wind shifted twice, at least where we were, up in the gallery, but the marks were well enough defended that they still held up. When it was cloudy, it was comfortable, but when the sun shone it got pretty warm, even up on the knoll where we were. I'm sure it felt a lot hotter down in the valley, and I felt sorry for the guys in those hides, but at least they were switched out regularly. They all did a GREAT job!

The dogs themselves were wonderful to watch as they worked their way through this test. Their athleticism and enthusiasm were thrilling to watch. There were NO out of control dogs. A few had minor creeps on the flyer. No noisiness, mouth issues or, really, any line manner problems that I saw from where I was.

Lot's of camaraderie to be seen. The handlers and workers seemed to be enjoying the day immensely.

I would say that the middle bird was the most difficult of the three. It was really well defended by a couple pieces of water that could not be seen, even from way up on the hill where we were. One in particular, just to the right of the true line to the mark would funnel the dogs further right. These dogs ended up hunting deep and to the right. Some figured it out and hunted their way back down, and some didn't. A few ended up picking up the right hand (longest) bird.

All in all, a great day. We plan to skip the water blind tomorrow and go back to watch the 9th and/or 10th series on Sunday. -Paul


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> Looks like they could possibly finish this on Sunday.


That would not surprise me, I think that they probably will.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

birddogn_tc said:


> Looks like they could possibly finish this on Sunday.


They should be only but being a strong chance of thunderstorms this afternoon.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks Paul for the write up. Some day I will make it to one to watch.

The new method they are using on the narc blog of describing the blinds is very nice. I like it much better than the previous descriptions.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Interesting that they are running a blind I picked out as a possibility, but running it backwards. Probably a better entry problem from that side. Definitely a 'handler's' blind. -Paul


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

Does anyone think we will see a quad in one of the next 2 series


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Vance_kaz said:


> Does anyone think we will see a quad in one of the next 2 series


Weather permitting, yes


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Vance_kaz said:


> Does anyone think we will see a quad in one of the next 2 series


If tradition holds, both with multiple fliers.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

paul young said:


> Interesting that they are running a blind I picked out as a possibility, but running it backwards. Probably a better entry problem from that side. Definitely a 'handler's' blind. -Paul


I’ve judged close to that same blind from the other side. It’s one that’s been run several times both ways.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

EdA said:


> If tradition holds, both with multiple fliers.


It is gonna be an interesting 2 days I believe any of the 22 dogs have a chance for the title


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Vance_kaz said:


> It is gonna be an interesting 2 days I believe any of the 22 dogs have a chance for the title


Does anyone that is there have any better feedback on if there are a handful of dogs that are sort of leading the pack at the moment?


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

bjoiner said:


> I’ve judged close to that same blind from the other side. It’s one that’s been run several times both ways.


Just a coincidence on my part, as there are literally dozens and dozens of really challenging blinds at that complex of ponds. 

Looking forward to watching tomorrow!

If you're still there, I'd love to meet you in person, if you have the time. We're easy to find, as our names are on the back of our chairs. -Paul


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Th


Vance_kaz said:


> Does anyone think we will see a quad in one of the next 2 series


Quads with double fliers are planned for both. I helped set up the 9th this morning and looked at the 10th, which is supposedly set in stone no matter the conditions.

The predicted severe weather this afternoon did not materialize. Storms fell apart at the Mississippi river, just light rain here.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

birddogn_tc said:


> Does anyone that is there have any better feedback on if there are a handful of dogs that are sort of leading the pack at the moment?


If I had to pick a one team right now it would be #106.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

paul young said:


> Just a coincidence on my part, as there are literally dozens and dozens of really challenging blinds at that complex of ponds.
> 
> Looking forward to watching tomorrow!
> 
> If you're still there, I'd love to meet you in person, if you have the time. We're easy to find, as our names are on the back of our chairs. -Paul


I left and headed home. Figured in see my family for my 50th birthday. Maybe next time.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

A view from behind the line.











bjoiner said:


> I left and headed home. Figured in see my family for my 50th birthday. Maybe next time.


Happy birthday,


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

drunkenpoacher said:


> A view from behind the line.
> View attachment 86785
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. Thanks. Amazing property.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

drunkenpoacher said:


> A view from behind the line.
> View attachment 86785
> 
> 
> ...


That view really shows how hilly it is thanks


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## GWEvans (Feb 2, 2021)

Vance_kaz said:


> That view really shows how hilly it is thanks


Wow. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

It is like the ozarks without trees! hahahaha!!!!

Special good luck to 
Joe Couey and Bullet and also to Alex Abraham and Tucker!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Emotional favorite Yvonne Hays and Bee, she has had a long and successful run as a competitor but mostly in Charlie’s shadow. Hopefully he is somewhere watching and barking advice.


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

We should have a winner soon


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

EdA said:


> Emotional favorite Yvonne Hays and Bee, she has had a long and successful run as a competitor but mostly in Charlie’s shadow. Hopefully he is somewhere watching and barking advice.


Years ago I judged Minot & she was running Marathon Man. He won the Open on his way to a DH. 
She thanked my co-judge who wanted to place another dog for the win.


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## APBT (Dec 22, 2020)

Congrats to the winner!
Doreen and Ptar


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## TexasK (Dec 11, 2016)

Congrats to the winner. How about the blog guy do an interview with the winner. Feel like we watched the blog for a week, now we got a conclusion, let’s hear about the journey First hand. Right?


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Congratulations to the winning team of Doreen and Ptar! They looked great in both tests today!

Both tests were very challenging, to say the least. Once again the birds well placed and spread out to allow the dogs plenty of room to roam if they did not have a strong mark. 

It was a very enjoyable day of watching some of the best retrievers in the country work their way through complex tests which required the dogs to think on their feet in order to come up with the birds, Once again, there were two guns on every dead bird thrown and the lighting was good all day. There were no easy marks in either test. The left hand retired marks of both tests caused the most trouble, in my opinion. But at some point, every mark produced big hunts and/or handles.

A big thank you to everyone involved in putting on this event, and especially to all the landowners who generously provided the superb grounds! -Paul


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## Frostyhollow (Feb 7, 2021)

Thanks Paul for providing an on-site viewpoint.


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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

Anybody know or direct me to a link for NARC souvenirs like hats or t-shirts? Would like to support them in some way. Thanks


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

ripline said:


> Anybody know or direct me to a link for NARC souvenirs like hats or t-shirts? Would like to support them in some way. Thanks


They will update soon with leftover merchandise 








National Merchandise


Retriever News Official Website. Serving the sport of retriever field trials and hunting tests since 1944.



www.theretrievernews.com


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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

Thank You


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

TexasK said:


> Congrats to the winner. How about the blog guy do an interview with the winner. Feel like we watched the blog for a week, now we got a conclusion, let’s hear about the journey First hand. Right?


The "blog guy" consists of 4 ladies at the event, plus one back in the office who just worked eight 14-16 hr days. 
My guess is that after the last post, they went back to their rooms and collapsed.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Thank you for posting this. It's the most worthwhile piece I've read on here in a long, long while.  - Paul


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

RETRVER said:


> I thought this write-up from Pat Burn's added some substantial color to what the NARC is like for human and dog. Thank you for the insight Pat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow' just WOW!!

Great stories. Very inspirational 
My allergies seem to be acting up again


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

I was just re-reading this thread and realized that I did not mention the fact that the winning team picked up the birds in the 10th series differently than all the others. They picked up the right retired (hen pheasant) 2nd. Obviously, that worked out in their favor, but it required faith on the handler's part and discipline on the dog's part! All the other teams picked up both flyers before attempting the retired marks.

Another observation I should have mentioned is that most of the competitors would gladly have swapped for the work of the female test dog on that 10th series!- Paul


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

paul young said:


> Another observation I should have mentioned is that most of the competitors would gladly have swapped for the work of the female test dog on that 10th series!- Paul


Just re-reading the tread myself and noticed this post. The female test dog "Annie" belongs to Mary Spangler, one of the land owners. I saw her win her first trial last fall. A first for Mary too I believe. Mully placed 2nd and broke 100 points.


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