# It's my Gut Feeling that EE is going to file Chapter 8.11.13 Pick one



## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Bad karma, no communication, poor timing, and lots of pressure from this new format.
Got $20 any takers, actually not legal here , sorry Chris.


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Terry, EE is owned by the national clubs which are pretty well flush with cash from the national events. They won't be filing bankruptcy anytime soon.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Why would you even post that? If you're right it's terrible news and nothing we can do about it. If you had any evidence beyond a gut feeling, it might be ok, but not helpful.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

OK I've edited my post.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Terry Marshall said:


> Bad karma, no communication, poor timing, and lots of pressure from this new format.
> Got $20 any takers, actually not legal here , sorry Chris.


What the hell are thinking? 
IMO...delete your thread.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

It would be nice to know what is truly going on. Server crash, what no backup server? The length of time down does raise questions. No need to result in name calling, state your point in a professional manner. Although it does make it interesting.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

What I don't get is the folks rushing to defend EE. Let them defend themselves. 

As far as the OP. He has the right to speculate. It's called free speech. You have the the right to disagree... But defend the indefensible? That has me scratching my head...


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

huntinman said:


> What I don't get is the folks rushing to defend EE. Let them defend themselves.
> 
> As far as the OP. He has the right to speculate. It's called free speech. You have the the right to disagree... But defend the indefensible? That has me scratching my head...


Nobody's defending EE on this thread, we're just calling the OP out for a stupid inflammatory post. Of course he is free to say whatever he want and we are fee to point out when he's out of line. Just my opinion of course.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

huntinman said:


> What I don't get is the folks rushing to defend EE. Let them defend themselves.
> 
> As far as the OP. He has the right to speculate. It's called free speech. You have the the right to disagree... But defend the indefensible? That has me scratching my head...


How about looking at the big picture and the sport in general...How about the many of folks who visit this site thinking about trying their hand in the dog games?
Just saying....


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Most businesses who depend on computers would
never allow this in the private sector. The finacial loss would be to costly in money and loss of
Goodwill to clients. But when you have a monopoly in a particular business and no competition ???? In addition my IT service would fired if they could not get me up
and running. One would think with this much time shut down you would have contracted with a new platform


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

BJGatley said:


> How about looking at the big picture and the sport in general...How about the many of folks who visit this site thinking about trying their hand in the dog games?
> Just saying....


What does that have to do with an F'd up server?

Starting to think Hillary is maintaining it...


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

moscowitz said:


> Most businesses who depend on computers would
> never allow this in the private sector. The finacial loss would be to costly in money and loss of
> Goodwill to clients. But when you have a monopoly in a particular business and no competition ???? In addition my IT service would fired if they could not get me up
> and running. One would think with this much time shut down you would have contracted with a new platform


Please understand that we the public don't know what is happening behind close doors.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

BJGatley said:


> Please understand that we the public don't know what is happening behind close doors.


Exactly.... I think healy made that point yesterday


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

huntinman said:


> What does that have to do with an F'd up server?


LOL...you tell me. I would like to know.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

huntinman said:


> Exactly.... I think healy made that point yesterday


And always the imagination can go wild and usually ii is for the worst.


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## Dave Plesko (Aug 16, 2009)

BJGatley said:


> Please understand that we the public don't know what is happening behind close doors.


As I recall, they are "working day and night".


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Dave Plesko said:


> As I recall, they are "working day and night".


Not disputing that...


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

huntinman said:


> What does that have to do with an F'd up server?
> 
> *Starting to think Hillary is maintaining it*...


LOL....Now that is funny.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

If we find out they are keeping the server in a bathroom in Arkansas...


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

You have to wonder who hired GoDaddy as the server and when, like when the VIP program shut down to save money? I bet it was the one that hasn't said a peep.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

BJGatley said:


> What the hell are thinking?
> IMO...delete your thread.


Why? As a business they should be doing some heavy damage control. Otherwise people will speculate and that's their right. EE has operated as a monopoly (other than HT secretary, I assume they still exist anyway) and as such apparently did not take precautions that other businesses with competition routinely do. All of my companies sales are Internet based and you better believe we have backup servers and redundancy. 
If it looks like dog poop and smells like dog poop there is no need to taste it 
On the other hand, this could help the entry problems.......USPS REGARDS.


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## Illini Coot Killr (Feb 21, 2011)

And the paint chips offs all their decoys right out of the box. Oh, wait a minute, sorry wrong thread.


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## Willie (Aug 15, 2014)

Illini Coot Killr said:


> And the paint chips offs all their decoys right out of the box. Oh, wait a minute, sorry wrong thread.


This made me lol


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

EE is not going to declare bankruptcy. If EE is a monopoly, it is not because it has the power to throttle potential rivals. If EE is a monopoly, it is because no sane person wants to enter a business with so little profit margin.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

No business is forced to be in business. If it is that bad, pack it up and don't bother.


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> EE is not going to declare bankruptcy. If EE is a monopoly, it is not because it has the power to throttle potential rivals. If EE is a monopoly, it is because no sane person wants to enter a business with so little profit margin.


If there were a bunch of $ to be made, there would be more options. This is the most sane remark I have seen about the whole situation. If it is such a money making monopoly, why are there not a rash of companies or individuals rushing in the business?
I know Dave, not well but as an acquaintance, and I don't think he needs the money from EE to live. If I were him, I would get it back up, give 30 days notice of a shutdown and tell everyone to pound sand. Life is too short.
JMHO
MP


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

The dog sports are run almost entirely by volunteers. Entry Express took over one of the jobs that caused major stress and time. They made it much easier for dogs to enter, kept a database of results and gave us an online source for running orders, directions, ect. The current state of affairs is certainly a mess. Hopefully they will be back running soon. I won't let one week of disappointment erase all the good things about the site.

Now y'all can restart the Internet bus.


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## Good Dogs (Nov 1, 2005)

fishduck said:


> The dog sports are run almost entirely by volunteers. Entry Express took over one of the jobs that caused major stress and time. They made it much easier for dogs to enter, kept a database of results and gave us an online source for running orders, directions, ect. The current state of affairs is certainly a mess. Hopefully they will be back running soon. I won't let one week of disappointment erase all the good things about the site.
> 
> Now y'all can restart the Internet bus.


Exactly. If anyone really wanted an answer they'd go to the Retriever News site and read the notices. But, what fun would that be?
Like the doc said about my kidney stone, "This too shall pass."


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

I believe most folks have been to Retriever News and have read the Notice (singular). Where I work, when a server is down or there is a server crash, multiple emails are sent out letting folks know what is going on, timelines, etc... I will agree, I really like Entry Express and the service they have provided. I go there quite often to look at entries, event posting, history, etc... Great service. If EE is a 'monopoly' it is because very few folks even know it exists and that there is a business opportunity. There is money being made or it would not be operating, business 101.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Clint Watts said:


> I believe most folks have been to Retriever News and have read the Notice (singular). Where I work, when the network is down or there is a server crash, multiple emails are sent out letting folks know what is going on, timelines, etc... I will agree, I really like Entry Express and the service they have provided. I go there quite often to look at entries, event posting, history, etc... Great service. If EE is a 'monopoly' it is because very few folks even know it exists and that there is a business opportunity. There is money being made or it would not be operating, business 101.


Typically in an office environment, email notification that the network is down ain't all that effective.

Slow traffic regards

Bubba


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Mike Perry said:


> If there were a bunch of $ to be made, there would be more options. This is the most sane remark I have seen about the whole situation. If it is such a money making monopoly, why are there not a rash of companies or individuals rushing in the business?
> I know Dave, not well but as an acquaintance, and I don't think he needs the money from EE to live. If I were him, I would get it back up, give 30 days notice of a shutdown and tell everyone to pound sand. Life is too short.
> JMHO
> MP


I have no inside information but it was my understanding that the sale of EE to Retriever News involved some cash and some payment from future revenues, closing shop might leave lots of $$$ on the table and create a considerable loss of goodwill with the retriever community. The slim profit margin was not an unknown factor and one often sited by Shayne when he was the owner, the only thing that has changed is an increase in volume.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Bubba said:


> Typically in an office environment, email notification that the network is down ain't all that effective.
> 
> Slow traffic regards
> 
> Bubba


That would be correct, I edited my post to correct. It is hard to get an email when the network is down, not so hard when just a server is down unless it is the email server. Thanks for the correction.

Respectfully,

Clint


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

As most other privately owned businesses, what does EE owe us? Absolutely nothing, except to keep our infoation secure.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Thomas D said:


> As most other privately owned businesses, what does EE owe us? Absolutely nothing.


Privately meaning owned by Retriever News which is owned by the two National clubs? It would seem that they have a considerable stake in the success of EE.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Thomas D said:


> As most other privately owned businesses, what does EE owe us? Absolutely nothing, except to keep our infoation secure.


Actually when you receive payment you owe to your customers the service or product purchased. I know of no successful business that carries the attitude that they owe their customers nothing. Without their customers they are nothing.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Clint Watts said:


> Actually when you receive payment you owe to your customers the service or product purchased. I know of no successful business that carries the attitude that they owe their customers nothing. Without their customers they are nothing.


Exactly, but I'm amazed by how many seem to have the attitude that Tom does.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

I agree that if they accepted your money they have an obligation to you for that traction. But, do they have an obligation to stay in business if there is no money owed to you? Sure they should have the business sense to provide excellent service to their customers but all of that goes out the window when the company goes south (and I'm not saying it is).


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

A small profit per unit is ok if you have lots of units. How many entries are there per year on EE? I don't have a good feel for that number.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

In the beginning, there was but one large scale entry service. When it had problems, the owner was amongst us and heard about the problems and fixed them. Then Retriever News decided to build an entry service. I don't recall how long it lasted but it went belly up shortly after opening. EE just kept trucking. Retriever News tried a second time ... to no avail. Again it went belly up. In both cases it was apparent that someone didn't know how to construct or run a database.

Finally, they hit on the bright idea of buying Shayne's product and the deal was made. Now they've screwed that too. It will be interesting to see whether TPTB decide to bring in real data professionals or will they just coast along waiting for the next catastrophe? It's too bad that the purchase of EE didn't include Shayne to supervise it.


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## T. Mac (Feb 2, 2004)

Wayne Nutt said:


> A small profit per unit is ok if you have lots of units. How many entries are there per year on EE? I don't have a good feel for that number.


Per AKC's 2014 stats There were 35,351 retriever field trial entries and 40,138 hunt test entries last year.

http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/2014AnnualStatistics.pdf


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Ted Shih said:


> EE is not going to declare bankruptcy. If EE is a monopoly, it is not because it has the power to throttle potential rivals. If EE is a monopoly, it is because no sane person wants to enter a business with so little profit margin.


If you think there weren't some very onerous heavy handed tactics threatened that helped facilitate a merger creating that monopoly then you are mistaken


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

If they have a net profit of only $1 per unit, that is $75,000 profit. Having an engineering degree helped me figure that out.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Thomas D said:


> I agree that if they accepted your money they have an obligation to you for that traction. But, do they have an obligation to stay in business if there is no money owed to you? Sure they should have the business sense to provide excellent service to their customers but all of that goes out the window when the company goes south (and I'm not saying it is).


I made this point in post 25... Maybe we aren't so far apart.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

T. Mac said:


> Per AKC's 2014 stats There were 35,351 retriever field trial entries and 40,138 hunt test entries last year.
> 
> http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/2014AnnualStatistics.pdf


If that is a real number then EE handled over 75,000 entries, a number which I think is growing. They charge $4.50 per entry plus charge the clubs a service fee (? not sure how much) and then charge for the Premiums. Let's discount the premiums and assume they charge the clubs a buck and a half. Total gross at $6 times 75,000 entries equals $450,000.
From what I have seen they have two young ladies in AR dealing with the data input. How many other costs do these guys have and I am not even including the newly created wait list and cancelation penalties. This is not big business but I can see this is/can be a nice Lagniappe!


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

first thing i read was it was problem with go daddy.com but then there are all these other go daddy sites with no problem. how many business owners here use go daddy? my guess is NOT very many.


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

I thought there was a pretty hefty credit card fee to be subtracted from those "profits."


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

It appears that they are in court.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

mngundog said:


> It appears that they are in court.


Yes and it appears that the RAC is interested in the proceedings

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKkYnVSsV8


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Let's say there are 4 stakes per week each having 200 entries per stake (guesstimate on average some way less some way more). Let's also say the entry fee is $75 per entry.

So we have 4 stakes per week X 200 entries per stake X $75 per entry X 52 weeks/yr which is over 3 million dollars per year. No?

I think we are talking about millions of dollars being shuffled this way and that. Not a few thousand.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

mngundog said:


> It appears that they are in court.


You guys are killing me. LOL 
There could of been an attack on the site, but that is usually resolved pretty quick. 
Their database is very fragile and in black and white. 
Maybe the back end went on a fritz...who knows, maybe...maybe...maybe.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

mitty said:


> Let's say there are 4 stakes per week each having 200 entries per stake (guesstimate on average some way less some way more). Let's also say the entry fee is $75 per entry.
> 
> So we have 4 stakes per week X 200 entries per stake X $75 per entry X 52 weeks/yr which is over 3 million dollars. No?
> 
> I think we are talking about millions of dollars. Not a few thousand.


So where does the club get the money for the test? EE only gets the 4.50 for the entry and whatever they charge the club. The rest of the money goes to the club to run the event. This is my understanding, please anyone correct me if I am wrong.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

i wonder what Shayne is thinking right now?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

The entry service charges a $4.50 fee per entry, from that they pay a credit card merchant fee, salaries, taxes, office rent, utilities, insurance, accounting fees, catalog printing and mailing, and debt service. This enterprise is certainly no cash cow.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

EdA said:


> The entry service charges a $4.50 fee per entry, from that they pay a credit card merchant fee, salaries, taxes, office rent, utilities, insurance, accounting fees, catalog printing and mailing, and debt service. This enterprise is certainly no cash cow.


The club's pay for catalogs...from my history lesson, it use to be ony means of profit for EE, until they upped the entry fees....but what do I know?


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

mitty said:


> Let's say there are 4 stakes per week each having 200 entries per stake (guesstimate on average some way less some way more). Let's also say the entry fee is $75 per entry.
> 
> So we have 4 stakes per week X 200 entries per stake X $75 per entry X 52 weeks/yr which is over 3 million dollars per year. No?
> 
> I think we are talking about millions of dollars being shuffled this way and that. Not a few thousand.



Here is the real world 

Rocky Mountain Fall Field Trial

61 Open Entries @ $90/each
33 Amateur Entries @ $80/each
24 Qualifying Entries @ $75/each
24 Derby Entries @ $75/each

Total amount $11,730

Of that amount, Entry Express receives $496.10

Breakdown of EE service charge
- 107 Field Trial Catalogs @ $2.50/each, $267.50
- AKC Application Fee, $35
- EE Application Fee (so I don't have to hassle with the AKC), $25
- Ribbon Set up Fee, $25
- Ribbons (40 @ $3.59/each), $143.60

I am pretty sure that there isn't much left of the $496.10 that Entry Express received from Rocky Mountain after deducting cost of services (including credit card fees), that constitutes profit

If anyone thinks that they are making a bundle of money, I suggest that they enter the game and see how much fun that is

Ted


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

They charge for catalogs and they also charge for advertising in the catalogs.


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

$4.50 has absolutely nothing to do with catalogs, they charge PLENTY for them.


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## dgreenwell (Apr 16, 2010)

It is all about infrastructure...in web services, you pay for the maximum volume you are going to potentially use...even if you need it for just 10 mins on Wed night. I recently evaluated several event management services and all had higher per entry fees than we enjoy with EE...most in the $9 - $12 range.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

They are making money off advertising also. The Retriever News is a Corporation with officers and a board of directors. I guarantee that they are making money with EE. It may not be a cash cow but it is paying the bills and adding value to the corporation. Anyone that says it doesn't is living in a fantasy world.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

dont they charge for ads in catalog?


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Ted Shih said:


> Here is the real world
> 
> Rocky Mountain Fall Field Trial
> 
> ...


Did I say anything about profits? NO. 

But I think millions of dollars flows through Entry Express on an annual basis.

Millions!


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Clint Watts said:


> They are making money off advertising also. The Retriever News is a Corporation with officers and a board of directors. I guarantee that they are making money with EE. It may not be a cash cow but it is paying the bills and adding value to the corporation. Anyone that says it doesn't is living in a fantasy world.



You think that just because the Retriever News is a corporation, it is making money? Really? Anyone who reads the business section of the paper sees stories on corporations closing their doors.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

mitty said:


> Did I say anything about profits? NO.
> 
> But I think millions of dollars flows through Entry Express.


If they don't keep any of those dollars, it is meaningless to this conversation


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

It's a wonderful service. 

We pay to use it. No one wants to go back to the old way.

Something has happened to cause it to stop working.

It's a major problem for everyone right now. It sounds like it will be up and operating again soon.

Like everything else, they're going to charge us more eventually. We will cry "foul" and we'll all complain.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Ted Shih said:


> You think that just because the Retriever News is a corporation, it is making money? Really? Anyone who reads the business section of the paper sees stories on corporations closing their doors.


That is not what I said. Be the peanut.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

John Lash said:


> It's a wonderful service.
> 
> We pay to use it. No one wants to go back to the old way.
> 
> ...


And on top of that...we will take it for granted until it breaks. 
Then all hell breaks loose...heaven forbid.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

John Lash said:


> It's a wonderful service.
> 
> We pay to use it. No one wants to go back to the old way.
> 
> ...



I agree with this.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

its been interesting reading what Shayne has said about it on FB. this was going to happen sooner or later and sometimes cutting corners to save some money isnt always the best choice. like i said, switching to go daddy was the first red flag


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## T. Mac (Feb 2, 2004)

My guess on the probable cause of the problem;

EE is hosted through GoDaddy. I know several people with GoDaddy sites who have not had any problems. But GoDaddy is in the process of eliminating some of their legacy servers. These are the servers that host applications built on older platforms or using older databases. So if EE was built using the Access data base or an early version of SQL database, and used asp files to call or save data used in their web pages, they may have been informed of the need to migrate their application to a newer server. Unfortunately, some of the GoDaddy client service techs don't know much about legacy programming and can't read some of the older languages. The one who called me about my website was insistent that I didn't have a database attached to my webpages. I had to end him snippets of the code to assure him that there was a database attached. So if EE relied on the GoDaddy client service folk and took their word for it that the transfer would be seamless, and had GoDaddy go ahead with the migration, the wheels would fall off big time. Sad part is that they won't be retiring tho old servers for several more months, so the migration could have been made in a less eventful manner. Of course it would still involve a complete rewrite of the application in a more current language and the migration of all the data to a new database! What is very scary is that it easy to visualize that the data has been corrupted and is going to require a rewind of the data to a new index point. If the database hasn't been configured for this it may mean a total loss of all data and a restart of the application.


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## Buncoboy (Feb 3, 2015)

Terry Marshall said:


> Bad karma, no communication, poor timing, and lots of pressure from this new format.
> Got $20 any takers, actually not legal here , sorry Chris.


The average repair time for a server is about 1/2 hour, up to 2 1/2 hours, and in a worse case scenario about 24 hours. New parts can get over nite delivery. I am sure you business savy people know that you get disconnected from your server for not paying the bill, whether by accident or for another reason. I really like Entry Express, regardless of the reason for this dilemma. Wish them the best and hope they can recover from this.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

We need an entry service in this sport. EE has been great for a long time and I don't think anyone here wants they to fail. 
I hope they are back up soon. 
the thing that worries me is that they are usually quick to post on here what is going on. The silence seems like a bad thing.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> We need an entry service in this sport. EE has been great for a long time and I don't think anyone here wants they to fail.
> I hope they are back up soon.
> the thing that worries me is that they are usually quick to post on here what is going on. The silence seems like a bad thing.


I for one am not thrilled at the prospect of setting up our field trial on the AKC website, a task as I recall was laborious and frustrating. If EE is not up soon there will be much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I wonder if EE has insurance for club losses because there are big problems for this weekend.


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## scott2012 (Feb 16, 2009)

As was mentioned in an earlier post.....GoDaddy updating. EE may lose a lot of data.


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