# Do You Know Him (GDG)...



## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE&feature=player_embedded#!











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## gward (Mar 15, 2010)

awesome! yes I know him!


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## JJaxon (Nov 1, 2009)

Just spoke with him a few minutes ago. Great man.


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## vern3 (Feb 9, 2006)

I do and he is awesome


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

We're old friends. Thanks!

Evan


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## BHB (Apr 28, 2008)

Absolutely!! Awesome!

BHB


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## mleenp (Jul 18, 2004)

Awesome! Yes, I know him and not ashamed to claim him. Thanks Keith for the post


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## Donald Flanagan (Mar 17, 2009)

I love Him, and I love that message! I had the privilege (though I didn't fully appreciate it at the time) of hearing S.M. Lockridge preach from time to time in church when I was very young. His church was located near mine, and his choir would come sing for us. Years later I heard this message for the first time. Great stuff.


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## Richard Reese (Apr 26, 2006)

I have known him my whole life, however, I feel I have know him closer this last year than ever before.

Richard


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## Ken Newcomb (Apr 18, 2003)

I know him. He is the Blood Donor that saved my life.


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## James Seibel (Aug 20, 2008)

Keith Farmer said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE&feature=player_embedded#!
> 
> That is nice post
> 
> ...


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## Christa McCoy (Jan 29, 2010)

Amen. He's the most important thing in my life... even over the dogs. ;-)


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## Elliott Labradors (May 19, 2009)

My dog Roxy and I have a personal relationship with Him.

http://www.elliottlabradors.com/roxyministryretrieverdemos.cfm

Wally


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks keith, and yes i do.
john mc


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## trinitylabs (Feb 13, 2006)

I may not be liked by some but Jesus thinks I'm to die for!
I read that quote somewhere and I wanted to share it. I love Jesus and yes Jesus loves me & you & you & even you.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." John 13:34 Jesus commandment
This commandment, given to us by our beloved Jesus Christ tells us that we must love one another. Jesus teaches us that the Commandment of Love (for God and for others) is the greatest of all Commandments.
One time a lawyer asked Jesus, "Teacher, which is the great Commandment in the Law?" and Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost Commandment. The second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two Commandments depends the whole Law." Matthew 22:36-40

Thanks for putting this on here.

God Bless You All,

Melody Robinson
Trinity Labrador Retrievers


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

Melody...thanks for the post. The scripture you listed: "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost Commandment. The second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. *On these two Commandments depends the whole Law*." Matthew 22:36-40 is absolutely true. Below is the Law being referred to...the Ten Commandments. Look at the first four commandments; they speak of our responsibility to God. The last six commandments speak of our responsibility to our fellow man. Jesus knew full well how to sum up the entire Law...Love God, Love your neighbor!


_"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God_… 

ONE: '_You shall have no other gods before Me._' 

TWO: '_You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth._' 

THREE: '_You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain._' 

FOUR: '_Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy._' 

FIVE: '_Honor your father and your mother._' 

SIX: '_You shall not murder._' 

SEVEN: '_You shall not commit adultery._' 

EIGHT: '_You shall not steal._' 

NINE: '_You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor._' 

TEN: '_You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's._' 




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## John Corman (Jul 23, 2006)

Yes. He's carried me through some tough times. He's changed my life. What a lover!


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## Ken Newcomb (Apr 18, 2003)

To summarize what Melody said;

"Fear God, Love your neighbor, hunt ducks" - Phil Robertson


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## Desiree (Dec 27, 2009)

Keith Farmer said:


> Melody...thanks for the post. The scripture you listed: "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost Commandment. The second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. *On these two Commandments depends the whole Law*." Matthew 22:36-40 is absolutely true. Below is the Law being referred to...the Ten Commandments. Look at the first four commandments; they speak of our responsibility to God. The last six commandments speak of our responsibility to our fellow man. Jesus knew full well how to sum up the entire Law...Love God, Love your neighbor!
> 
> 
> _"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God_…
> ...


Hey, I'm a new Christian, thanks explaining that. God Bless!


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## Ken Newcomb (Apr 18, 2003)

Keith Farmer said:


> Melody...thanks for the post. The scripture you listed: "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost Commandment. The second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. *On these two Commandments depends the whole Law*." Matthew 22:36-40 is absolutely true. Below is the Law being referred to...the Ten Commandments. Look at the first four commandments; they speak of our responsibility to God. The last six commandments speak of our responsibility to our fellow man. Jesus knew full well how to sum up the entire Law...Love God, Love your neighbor!
> 
> 
> _"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God_…
> ...


Fortunately we no longer live under the Law we live by Faith. Living a faith filled life involves following the law but we don't rely on it for our salvation.


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## Snicklefritz (Oct 17, 2007)

And, the topic of this forum is......????????

Hiding proselytizing behind (GDG)... is a bit disengenous.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I am offended by using (GDG) as a cover, and this forum for evangelization.

Where's the Janitor?

Snick


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

Snick,

I am sure the thread has already been reported...however, there are no rules preventing such postings...nothing sexual, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise unlawful about the post....And, while some may have honestly not known by the title, it was Christian in nature, I believe a vast majority of people here do/did, before opening the thread....

that said, I think the fact that up til now, no one had publicly complained, shows a vast majority of RTF'ers are very tolerant of people's religious views. A good thing, IMHO.

Juli


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## Captain Mike D (Jan 1, 2006)

Snicklefritz said:


> And, the topic of this forum is......????????
> 
> Hiding proselytizing behind (GDG)... is a bit disengenous.
> 
> ...


Chuck, you don't have to watch, or read if you don't want to. 

Ain't a church and state issue to be argued before the Supreme Court regards,

Your Friend,
Mike


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## Snicklefritz (Oct 17, 2007)

Mike, first there was politics. So, they made a place for politics and anyone could look to the right and see POTUS Place and avoid the discussion if they chose.

Before that, there was (GDG). And, anyone could avoid that too! But, (GDG) was innocuous and offered no agenda. Now, even (GDG) has been co-opted to allow posters to promote their religious zeal to the unsuspecting- and that included me until tonite-newcomer who comes here looking for dog help.

It's deceptive...even if not intentionally so.

Juli - this is a private forum that is open to the public. Because it's private, this forum can be whatever the majority of its members, and its owner want it to be. But, this forum needs to be honest, even by its very name, about what it is. If it is to be what you are suggesting it is...then so be it. But, be honest. 

What happened to 'For the dogs'? 

Sincere Best Regards to Mike and Juli

Snick


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## scott2012 (Feb 16, 2009)

Snicklefritz said:


> Mike, first there was politics. So, they made a place for politics and anyone could look to the right and see POTUS Place and avoid the discussion if they chose.
> 
> Before that, there was (GDG). And, anyone could avoid that too! But, (GDG) was innocuous and offered no agenda. Now, even (GDG) has been co-opted to allow posters to promote their religious zeal to the unsuspecting- and that included me until tonite-newcomer who comes here looking for dog help.
> 
> ...


Dude.....wake up!!


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

It's very simple; if it offends you, don't read it. This has been a very positive thread with no trashing of anyone or anything, unlike many other GDG threads.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Anyone ever notice that the folks that need Jesus in their lives the most tend to fight him the hardest(loudest);-)


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Anyone ever notice that the folks that need Jesus in their lives the most tend to fight him the hardest(loudest):wink:




Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "rebel yell"...





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## Quizz79 (Sep 1, 2010)

The Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause and God are all fairy tales that I figured out are fake and made up characters when I was 5!!!! 

Take your propaganda somewhere else...I'm offended by you pushing you agenda on my! You can say just don't read the thread, but put in the tittle of the Thread "This a post about religion"


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## Desiree (Dec 27, 2009)

Yes, I know him and thank him for keeping myself and my dogs safe while hunting!


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

> What did Jesus mean when he Spoke these words : Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever dose not believe will be condemned.
> 
> John 3:5 Jesus answered, " I tell you the truth , no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he born of water and Spirit.
> 
> Acts 2:38 Peter replied, " Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. .


I have wondered for a long time, so long I recall a discussion with the Monsignor about it way back when.
Say some feller lives way up on a Himalayan mountain. Has never left home, never heard of Jesus or Abraham even.
He is a good feller with love in his heart. Has basically led the life we are counseled to live. Yet that whole believe and baptized, water and spirit thing was never available. 
Is he going to hell??????? 
And if so, why? 



.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Quizz79 said:


> The Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause and God are all fairy tales that I figured out are fake and made up characters when I was 5!!!!
> 
> Take your propaganda somewhere else...I'm offended by you pushing you agenda on my! You can say just don't read the thread, but put in the tittle of the Thread "This a post about religion"


I'll agree with the first two, but the third is far from being a fairy tale. I would invite you to read and research the Bible and try to scientifically prove it is false. It has been attempted by many athiest and non-believers with no success. Some were even persuaded so much by their research, they were saved themselves.

Keith,

Thank you for posting this. I know him well.


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## Byron Musick (Sep 19, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> I have wondered for a long time, so long I recall a discussion with the Monsignor about it way back when.
> Say some feller lives way up on a Himalayan mountain. Has never left home, never heard of Jesus or Abraham even.
> He is a good feller with love in his heart. Has basically led the life we are counseled to live. Yet that whole believe and baptized, water and spirit thing was never available.
> Is he going to hell???????
> ...


I think in Roman's Chapter 2 14-16 (or thereabouts) It states those who do not know the law will be judged by what is in thier hearts (my understanding), so I think the mountain man is in good shape..


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Keith Farmer said:


> _"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God_…
> 
> ONE: '_You shall have no other gods before Me._'
> 
> ...


I'm just thankful that TEN does not say anything about your neighbor's WiFi... 

Great link with a great message.

SM


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## Ga Woodrow (Mar 4, 2006)

Believe it or not, every person on this planet will come to know there is one true God. The question is do you want to be standing in the fire when you come to believe? No mulligans when it gets there.


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## cpj (Sep 28, 2009)

Great thread. Woodrow your post reminds me of the last line in a Ray Wylie Hubbard song titled "Conversation with the devil". The line is "some get spiritual because they see the light and some because they feel the heat." The song was inspired by a dream he had.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm here Chuck,

The last time we had a religious blow-up on RTF, Buddy wasn't even born yet. I can remember the day well. My older son was a toddler and I was watching RTF get hateful with Christians and Atheists arguing up a storm. I was trying to take my son to the Indianapolis Children's museum, spend family time, and squelch a heated debate via my BlackBerry.

It got so bad, I wound up banning one RTF member who continued to post Wikipedia links supporting his anti-religion agenda, after I'd asked politely for folks to drop the behaviour a few times. I asked that RTF members cool it on the religious discussion, and wound up with a few folks sending me notes saying that if RTF did not welcome the christian, they were resigning. (So basically, I felt painted into a corner)

Here's my request to Chuck: If you need each and every post on RTF to fall squarely between a defined line, and not deviate outside that, RTF is will probably be disappointing. Neither I, nor the moderators have the time nor desire to regulate RTF to that level. 

Here's my request to brother Keith and others: Please try to keep your support of this thread, within this thread. Please in addition, if you have subject matter worthy of a post that includes your faith, try to identify it a bit more clearly to help folks like Chuck know not to click it.

Chuck and any others upset by this thread: Let's sit back and "read the dog" here. What is the culture of RTF telling you by the existence of this thread? Is there a sudden propensity of RTF being dominated by "GDG" posts that are really "camouflaged" Christian messages? I don't think so. 

Again, Buddy wasn't even born the last time we had a religious issue on RTF. If we truly read what's going on, this thread is but one in many non-christian, non-religious topics. It is a non-issue, and we should move on and focus on one of the many threads that will appear today, tomorrow, or yesterday, that suits our preferences.

Heck, folks may be upset that Batman shot flyers at Paducah, or that Ira Baker got her pictures posted running Trav at a hunt test. 

RTF will never, ever have each and every post work for every user. Please remember that RTF is like panning for gold. You will filter out mostly sand and shale. Occasionally you will find a nugget. IF it is worththe effort, please bring your pan and wade on in. If the water's too cold, or there's too much fool's gold, I understand.

Here's the cool part: Every one of you has the option to ADD GOLD TO THE RIVERBED! Some folks say that you get out of the sport, and perhaps the same can be said about this resource, as what you put in or give back.

I remember a poem called "the bridge" that we had to remember and recite as PSU Beta pledges. I thnk I'll post it here:

*
An old man going a lone highway,
came at the evening cold and gray,
to a chasm vast, both deep and wide.

The old man crossed in the twilight dim,
The swollen stream had no fear for him;
but he turned when safe on the other side
and built a bridge to span the tide.

"Old man", said a fellow pilgrim near,
"You are wasting your strength and labor here; 
your journey will end
with the passing day. You never again
will pass this way. 
You’ve crossed the
chasm, deep and wide, why build you this
bridge at evening tide?"

The builder lifted his old gray head;
"Good friend in the path I have come",
he said, 
"there followed after me today
a youth whose feet must pass this way.
This chasm that has been as naught to me,
to that fair-haired youth may a pitfall be.

He, too, must cross in the twilight dim.
Good friend I am building this bridge for him!"​-- Will Allen Dromgoole (1860-1934), Writer
*


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## James Seibel (Aug 20, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> I have wondered for a long time, so long I recall a discussion with the Monsignor about it way back when.
> Say some feller lives way up on a Himalayan mountain. Has never left home, never heard of Jesus or Abraham even.
> He is a good feller with love in his heart. Has basically led the life we are counseled to live. Yet that whole believe and baptized, water and spirit thing was never available.
> Is he going to hell???????
> ...


My answer to your Hypothetical Straw Man Scenario is this 

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:5 Jesus answered , " I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and Spirit. 

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever dose not believe will be condemned. ( JESUS SPEAKING ) 

For you believe only folks Read : James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder. ( text from NIV)

Please some one Show me Chapter and verse in the Bible were the Sinners Prayer is.


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## Brian Skibicki (Feb 23, 2008)

I know Him and am glad for it, as well as I know and am thankful for my truly good hearted friend Keith Farmer. Knowing Keith has led me to a better appreciation of my own faith, by him challenging me to be a better person, a better christian (Roman Catholic even, Keith!), and believe it or not a better dog trainer and handler. I can say this about Keith, he is first and foremost committed to his faith in God, his family, and then his passion in working with these wonderful creations we call retrievers; each of which he considers ministries in their own right. It is who Keith is, and I would not have it any other way. It is also my experience that if in some way his passion for any of these ministries causes someone to feel uncomfortable then in some small way he has reached you. I am glad that he reached out to me, and like I said am grateful to know Keith and "Him". Both of them a little better because of that friendship.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

If we go back, by the way, and look up the definition of "GDG" in the RTF context, it would be "not retriever training related".

I'd say Keith adequately described this subject matter.

Chris


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## Monte09 (Feb 5, 2008)

I need to know Him better and thank you for reminding me.

Steve


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## Byron Musick (Sep 19, 2008)

I'm prolly one of RTF's most prolific SINNER's!! I needed this!


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## ReedCreek (Dec 30, 2007)

Ken Newcomb said:


> I know him. He is the Blood Donor that saved my life.


He calls me "friend"....John 15:15
________
Toyota Opa History


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## dmac1175 (May 10, 2010)

Yes I know Him!


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## Snicklefritz (Oct 17, 2007)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I'm here Chuck,
> 
> The last time we had a religious blow-up on RTF, Buddy wasn't even born yet. I can remember the day well. My older son was a toddler and I was watching RTF get hateful with Christians and Atheists arguing up a storm. I was trying to take my son to the Indianapolis Children's museum, spend family time, and squelch a heated debate via my BlackBerry.
> 
> ...


Thanks for resonding Chris. If anyone cares to look, I did not object to the Christian message _per se_. I objected to the way it was presented, in a forum where that message is not the focus.

Wow, what a range of predictable responses I got. There were those who decided I was confused about First Amendment rights. There were (heplful?) responses by those who just told me to 'get real'. And there were those responses that implied that anyone who has anything to say that could possibly be considered as contrary to the conventional wisdom is doomed to burn in hell. How very christian that is.

And, all the while, many here make assumptions about me, and my faith, and my education and understanding of my faith, based upon zero evidence from me in the past.

As you said, the last time this came up, it was ugly. And, that's a good reason to avoid it in the future. I'm pleased to see you cautioned others to be honest about what a thread's content may be. That's good with me. But, if you or anyone thinks I am the only one who dislikes having religious views foisted upon them...then best beware of latent disatisfaction.

I'm done for now, and I hope this the end of it. But, by all means '_*Don't Tread on Me!*_'

Dang, am I becoming a Tea Party member??????????

Snick


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## Kevinismybrother (Aug 3, 2009)

He has saved my behind more than once. I hear his voice.
thanks


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

James Seibel said:


> Please some one Show me Chapter and verse in the Bible were the Sinners Prayer is.


Are you asking me?


.


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## wheelhorse (Nov 13, 2005)

"He is a good feller with love in his heart. Has basically led the life we are counseled to live. Yet that whole believe and baptized, water and spirit thing was never available. 
Is he going to hell??????? 
And if so, why"

This very thought has always bothered me in a most profound way. Every evangelical christian I asked this of always had a quote from the Bible as to why that man is undeserving. My faith in that kind of God is gone.

I asked one more time a very good friend of mine, a good person, one who tries to live by the Bible. And she is the only one that ever gave me answer that made sense to me. Her answer was, "It is not for me to decide, that is God's choice."

That I can live with. But I still won't go to church.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

so what happens when the man who worships allah and mohammed comes gun barrel to gun barrel to the man that worships God and Jesus? if the muslim wins it was allahs will, if the christian wins it was Gods will. and which ever one loses well, it was in The Plan all along.

its even more confusing when allah and God are one and the same. pretty much the immovable object up against the irresistible force.

*what one messed up world we have here until we can all see the same Light.* and that Light is that allah and buddah and God and the Great Spirit and hare krishna as well as darwinism etc etc etc are all one and the same, and its the epitome of stupidity to kill anyone because they call thier's by a different name. we are all on earth together, we are not on earth because a bunch of different "higher beings" mystically placed us in different regions according to some other belief - hmmmmm...lets see here...... let God put the christians in europe after they leave the middle east, buddah can have his buddhists in asia - but hare krishna needs some room in the western region there also - oh and mohammed can have the middle east now that the christians are mostly gone - but lets carve a small niche out for the jews before we go too far - oh, and lets not forget the Great Spirit so he can have America and the american natives can thrive until all the others roll over them like a tidal wave and claim their land in the name of _their_ God..

*"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together " *- regards

dont you find it funny how it took an atheist - intentionally or not - to cap it all off in the least amount of words possible?

i mean really? i fully intend this post as support as well as condemnation for all religions. shame on them all for not understanding what John Lennon stated so simply. whether he intended that or not no one will ever know, but the words speak for themselves IMHO.

and how many lives have been wasted in the misunderstanding of that quote and/or at least its underlying meaning......


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

wheelhorse said:


> "
> 
> 
> > He is a good feller with love in his heart. Has basically led the life we are counseled to live. Yet that whole believe and baptized, water and spirit thing was never available.
> ...


Yes, thank you, me as well..........


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

Kathleen...Ken:

Your question is one that seemingly every person at some point or another asks. God has provided answers in His Word...the bible...to such questions. If you _really _want answers to your questions and are not raising them in an effort to try and throw a curve ball to Christianity then God has those answers for you.

I know you guys don't want a theological treatise so I will avoid such. I can say this and hope that it helps...

Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. He lived a sinless life fulfilling the requirements of God's Law. He died a substitutionary and fully atoning death and in doing so He purchased by His blood a people for Himself. He was raised again to life as the very First-Fruit of many who would follow...those that He purchased. He was exalted on high where He forever intercedes on behalf of His people; all this according to scripture.

Jesus made this statement in regards to all those who would become His children...those that He purchased with His blood: "*All* that the Father gives Me *will* come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." John 6:37

By these words you and I can be certain that ALL of those that the Father would give the Son WILL come to repentance and faith in Jesus.

Headed to a FT...God bless.



.




.


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

Keith Farmer said:


> 'I am the LORD your God[/I]…
> 
> ONE: '_You shall have no other gods before Me._'
> 
> ...


I thought there were 15 commandments. I saw a movie where moses had 15 commandments then he dropped one of the stone tablets and we ended up with 10. "Many a truth is said in jest" 
There are a lot of contradictions in the bible. Mathew and Mark have completely different versions of the death of Christ. Well written book though. Just not meant to be taken literally in my opinion.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

greg magee said:


> I thought there were 15 commandments. I saw a movie where moses had 15 commandments then he dropped one of the stone tablets and we ended up with 10. "Many a truth is said in jest"
> There are a lot of contradictions in the bible. Mathew and Mark have completely different versions of the death of Christ. Well written book though. Just not meant to be taken literally in my opinion.


The gospels that were selected for the new Testement were chossen nearly 400 years after the death of the Rabbi known as Jesus. At the Council of Naicine (sp) gospels such as the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel Of Mary Magdeline were omitted because Thomas' gospel didn't believe in one large centralized chucrh and Mary's gave woman some power and status. Both would undermine the power in the church in Rome as well as thier new Christian Ceasar. All the gospels are created by man in his attempt to explain his existence.

Do you know him?

Had a few beers with him the other night. He asked me what I thought was wrong with his Cowboys this season. 

I said, "Your Cowboys"? I thought you switced teams to the guys in black and gold!
(I said black and gold, not black and mustard for you Steeler fans)


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

Nice post Keith, I do know Jesus and love him. 

To those that want to argue that Jesus and God are not real or that the bible is not to be taken litterally I would like to suggest a book written by Lee Stroble titled A Case For Christ. Lee was a Lawyer who was an athiest. He set out to disprove the bible and the exsistance of God. He spent a few years on his quest to once and for all put an end to the LIE. He is now a Christian who is sold out. His book is full of facts and a great read. If you have any doubts that you may be wrong about No God check it out. What do you have to loose.


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

Pete said:


> [Now do you study and train everyday? No not dogs,,,,THE Word of GOD (smiley face emoticon not available )
> Pete


I do not study the word of God as I believe it to be the word of man. But I do believe it to be a good read and open for interpretation as people see fit. If it brings peace and solis to those who choose to study it's meaning further, I'm all for it. But if history is any indication of how many people have died defending or promoting their God of choice, I think I'll stick with John Lennon on this one and just "Imagine".


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Keith Farmer said:


> Kathleen...Ken:
> 
> Your question is one that seemingly every person at some point or another asks. God has provided answers in His Word...the bible...to such questions. If you _really _want answers to your questions and are not raising them in an effort to try and throw a curve ball to Christianity then God has those answers for you.
> 
> ...


Keith,
Best of luck at the field trial,
I know you wont read this right away. But it is here waiting when you return Monday.
I definitely am not throwing a curve ball to Christianity. I was brought up with devout Roman Catholic Grandparents on both sides. The parents not so much. But from 4 years to 15 I lived with my paternal Grandparents. With their age and old Vermont values it kind of makes me the worlds youngest Depression area child of Vermont. I cannot remember going to church the first time. I am sure I was one of those crying infants in the vestibule we all love so much. I was, according to Monsignor Freditte the youngest Usher ever at Our Lady of Mount Carmel church in Charlotte, Vermont. My maternal Grandparents lived in Newport, Vermont and St. Mary’s Cathedral has a sloping stone floor, like a movie theater. I so loved midnight mass there with the nuns of St. Mary’s signing in French. Gosh a wave of goose bumps just came as I typed that. Wonderful childhood memories. At 14ish Dad married wife number 2. Happened to be a practicing Jehovah’s Witness. Started my love of reading about religions, all religions. I very much enjoy reading your religious threads.

This is what I believe. 

I believe God and religions, all of them. Are exactly like training Retrievers. 
I believe there is a phase one, two and three of religion exactly as there are the same phases of dog training. 
For those other than Keith reading, and do not know the phases I speak click http://www.dannyfarmer.com/ProblemsAndSolutions 
And scroll down to levels of a trainer. Substitute religious person for dog trainer and you get the way I am drifting.
I do believe in a Greater Spirit. I do believe we have an everlasting Soul. I do believe we must find our path to be a good person.
And just like training retrievers I believe there are different paths that arrive at the same place.
The fresh religious person, like the fresh dog trainer benefits greatly from a retriever club/Church. They are wide eyed and open, like a sponge soaking it all in. Once they have the program down, in their mind. They start to teach others and they can possibly start to think they have all the answers. They know exactly what they need to do and become comfortable. At peace with themselves and God. Some folk will spend the rest of their life there. And they are wonderful people with solid values and great to be around.
Some folk go a step further. Some folk explore, talk, read about other religions and other parts of the world and have questions. They realize they do not know it all after all and understand they actually know less than they thought they knew. And they start to learn again.

My God, My personal Jesus is in me. He is in my heart and Soul. He is not locked inside the gold Tabernacle to the right of the alter for six days of the week and released by the Alter Boys Sunday morning. He is in the rock, the tree, the swamp, the sunrise over the decoys.

I believe both My God, and I would rather have me waist deep in a swamp with my retrievers, thinking about God.
Instead of sitting in a church, thinking about standing waist deep in a swamp with my retrievers.






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## cpj (Sep 28, 2009)

Google or Youtube Hank Hough Kingdom Dog Ministries. Hank travels Texas and beyond with 2 of his retrievers. He does an hour long presentation correlating dog obedience to faith. He came to our my church 2 yrs. ago and it is a great presentation.


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## Byron Musick (Sep 19, 2008)

"My God, My personal Jesus is in me. He is in my heart and Soul. He is not locked inside the gold Tabernacle to the right of the alter for six days of the week and released by the Alter Boys Sunday morning. He is in the rock, the tree, the swamp, the sunrise over the decoys."

Wow!! Now these words are pretty cool.... I was raised to believe all it takes is the faith of a mustard seed.... I believe it yet I am still trying to quantify it!! I sure like your analogy Ken, it is in that sense I see miracle's around me all the time.....


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## leo455 (Aug 15, 2008)

I am not Religious don't believe in it. I believe in Jesus the Christ. To me all of those old guys in the temple, look a whole lot like the same ones of today. I walk with Him and Talk with him everyday. I give so that I may receive some times with money sometimes with my works. My question to those who don't believe ? If I am right and you are wrong, who has fire protection ? I do, do you? 
Tony


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Doesn’t matter who’s right, which “book” you believe, or who’s the real god. 

If the motive of your faith is to CYA for the hereafter with a spot in heaven, then you’re simply self-serving, aren't you?


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## James Seibel (Aug 20, 2008)

wheelhorse said:


> "He is a good feller with love in his heart. Has basically led the life we are counseled to live. Yet that whole believe and baptized, water and spirit thing was never available.
> Is he going to hell???????
> And if so, why"
> 
> ...


Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

No One can be saved by works - Trying to live a good life is trying to be saved by works.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Why did God chose baptism ? I think this says it all Romans 6:3 

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-7because anyone who has died has been feed form sin. 

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:While we were sinners, Christ died for us.

The blood of Christ is applied to our sins when we are Immersed in baptism 

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned . ( Jesus Speaking)

To obey a command of Christ is NOT a WORKS . By rejecting Christ is of YOUR own CHOICE and Not Gods

2Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends; With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day, 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Which translation of the bible is the most accurate?

http://www.google.com/search?source...resnum=11&ved=0CEMQ5wIwCg&fp=b2da8a77dcd93603

Tip of an iceberg regards

john


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Which translation of the bible is the most accurate?


Translating Hebrew and Greek into modern English is way more complicated than many people realize. The great thing about where we are now in terms of information availability is that we have full access to Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and the availability of Interlinear Bibles. One must be diligent in study and utilize all of the "tools" at one's disposal.

However, and this is the key here, regardless of what translation a person uses only by divine illumination from God the Holy Spirit can a Christian understand God's Word...and a non-Christian _cannot_ understand God's Word...that scenario is by and according to His will.

Here is documentation to back that up:

1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 *We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.* 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 *The man without the Spirit* does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, *and he cannot understand them*, because they are spiritually discerned.





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## Dan Boerboon (May 30, 2009)

Halleluiah and Amen brother

The King of kings reigns forever 
:BIG:


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Before going too much further,...I'd like someone to be able categorically vouch for the accuracy any/all of the hand written Hebrew and Greek manuscripts from which each/any of the English translations were made.

john


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Before going too much further,...I'd like someone to be able categorically vouch for the accuracy any/all of the hand written Hebrew and Greek manuscripts from which each/any of the English translations were made.
> 
> john


John...God's Word is self-evident and self-attesting. God's Word is the presupposed highest authority for a Christian and the only source of truth since it emanates from Truth Himself.

By your statement I assume that you presuppose that the bible is not true...is that a fair statement? If so, please state your case.




.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Keith Farmer said:


> John...God's Word is self-evident and self-attesting. God's Word is the presupposed highest authority for a Christian and the only source of truth since it emanates from Truth Himself.
> 
> By your statement I assume that you presuppose that the bible is not true...is that a fair statement? If so, please state your case.
> 
> ...



Never assume anything about me 

Before we go off on that tangent,since no one who loves and respects the Bible would accept anything less than total accuracy as the goal of translation, I want you to "state your case" as to validity of your position.... that what you are saying are accurate QUOTES from Gods words as passed down to us by dubious means are in fact accurate . 

Keith, while we are on the subject of accuracy what is your position on the more recent gender friendly versions that are edging away from the language that was seen by some as biased against women ... 

john


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Never assume anything about me :wink:


I phrased it in a question..."is that a fair statement?"

I do not care to jump all around from point to point. First, John, are you a born again, Holy Spirit converted Christian who believes in the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God?



> since no one who loves and respects the Bible would accept anything less than total accuracy as the goal of translation


Your usage of terms such as "loves", "respects" presuppose a standard of goodness. Apart from the biblical God there exists no universal, transcendent standard of goodness...what is your standard of goodness John?

Your term "total accuracy" presupposes that there exists absolute truth. Apart from the biblical God there is no foundation for absolute truth...merely skepticism and relativism. So, John, where do you look for absolute truth?





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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

speak with him everyday few times


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Keith Farmer said:


> I phrased it in a question..."is that a fair statement?"
> 
> I do not care to jump all around from point to point. First, John, are you a born again, Holy Spirit converted Christian who believes in the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God?
> 
> ...


Let's save the philosophical disection of each other for another time and decide where the WORD is MORE accurately depicted. 
Is it in the KJV the NKJV or the NIV or New American Standard Bible

I asked you to make YOUR case for the accuracy of the Greek and Hebrew texts used in translation in the Bible you quote from.
I tend to want to shy away from the Gnostic philosophy of Westcott and Hort ........but thats me 


Here, this might help explain what I am saying/asking.

http://www.dyeager.org/post/2009/01/which-bible-translation-best

While we are at it some more food for thought,

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gh...HyTVCsyLHmWFOyHglWI&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

john


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Keith we met once. I said I was watching you at a field trial. I don't want to get into trouble here. But I am not a Christian but I do believe in the following:
“ THERE IS NO HUMAN BEING WHO DOES NOT CARRY A TREASURE IN HIS SOUL; A MOMENT OF INSIGHT; A MEMORY OF LOVE; A DREAM OF EXCELLENCE; A CALL TO WORSHIP."
I believe this applies to anyone no matter what religion. This is the preciousness of our existence, everyones existence.

I'm probably in trouble now for getting involved in this discussion.


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

Keith Farmer said:


> However, and this is the key here, regardless of what translation a person uses only by divine illumination from God the Holy Spirit can a Christian understand God's Word...and a non-Christian _cannot_ understand God's Word...that scenario is by and according to His will.
> .


Keith, your quote reminds me of a story about two weavers who promise an Emperor a new suit of clothes that are invisible to those unfit for their positions or incompetent. Boy in the crowd regards.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Keith, your quote reminds me of a story about two weavers who promise an Emperor a new suit of clothes that are invisible to those unfit for their positions or incompetent. Boy in the crowd regards.


Greg...Your statement is very strange indeed. "The Emperor has no clothes" is a story where deception was the focus and only a young lad who spoke the truth was the hero.

My quote is directly from God's Word (as a paraphrase but true to form none the less). God does not deceive...rather He is the One who removes the blinders for His children so that they may see the truth. Satan is the great deceiver and the one who has blinded the eyes of unbelievers: 

Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4)

I am the one crying here, regarding worldly wisdom, "the emperor has no clothes"!




.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Let's save the philosophical disection of each other for another time and decide where the WORD is MORE accurately depicted.
> Is it in the KJV the NKJV or the NIV or New American Standard Bible


Ah but John I sooo enjoy philosophical dissection...don't you want to play?


I will assume once again here John...are you a KJV-Only advocate...or worse; a militant?


The topic of this thread is the glorious attributes of our Savior...not the textual differences of manuscripts. I CAN argue that with you but I do not wish to at this point.

You never answered my question John...are you a born-again believer?




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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Keith Farmer said:


> Ah but John I sooo enjoy philosophical dissection...don't you want to play?
> 
> 
> I will assume once again here John...are you a KJV-Only advocate...or worse; a militant?
> ...


Actually, the topic of this thread is:

*"Do you know him? GDG"* 

So, I'd counter that it was a closed probe with really two possible answers. The first few replies responded as the question was worded. And it was labled GDG, which in RTF culture means "not dog related".

I believe that true Christians will still welcome others to their businesses, to their homes, to their duckblinds, to their training grounds. As such, the intent of RTF is to welcome all retriever enthusiasts to utilize RTF for all that it can be. I have my own personal belief and do not feel the need to publicly state it in this thread. But I am striving to have RTF accessible for reasonable use by all walks of life...that have the retriever hobbies in common.

Certainly some sharing and communicating outside of strictly dog-related matters will happen. That is by design and as it should be. 

I'm glad that the religious debate that is evolving here (and I think it's safe to say that it virtually always does in this type of thread) it is remaining restricted to this thread, which is helpful.

Keith, I saw you got a blue in Jacksonville this weekend! Congratulations! I'll never forget watching you run that gal at Flint Oak in the 10th (2006) with all the heart....she loved running for you!

Chris


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Actually, the topic of this thread is:
> 
> *"Do you know him? GDG"*


Touche' Chris...but the content of the video is the glorious attributes of Christ...that was my point in trying to steer away from a biblical translation argument.



> Keith, I saw you got a blue in Jacksonville this weekend! Congratulations! I'll never forget watching you run that gal at Flint Oak in the 10th (2006) with all the heart....she loved running for you!
> 
> Chris


I did...with T-Bone who is not even two yet; thank you!!

Jet was an amazing animal in terms of an all-around competitor. I had the privilege of training one of her offspring...Ranger...who is a lot like her. Ranger made the National Derby list, won a Q, titled HRCH, and is on his way to becoming a MH...and he is only three.

Thanks for the space here Chris!



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## James Seibel (Aug 20, 2008)

john fallon said:


> Let's save the philosophical disection of each other for another time and decide where the WORD is MORE accurately depicted.
> Is it in the KJV the NKJV or the NIV or New American Standard Bible
> 
> I asked you to make YOUR case for the accuracy of the Greek and Hebrew texts used in translation in the Bible you quote from.
> ...


Let me give you my 2 cents worth on this : Take a KJ NIV American Standard or the any other bible and Put Scripture against Scripture and You will see that the ALL READ the SAME - There is just different words. But the MEANING is the SAME .. 

I have done this with only two the King James and NIV - Take Acts 2:38 they both read the SAME . 

Now then one more thing Did YOU ALL KNOW that KING JAMES changed the original manuscript about John the Immerser to John the Baptist ? 

Did You all know that when the NIV was translated they had 100 scholars come together and translate it so no one group would be able to use there opinion or sway the scriptures this way or that way. ( not sure how to word what I mean) 

100 scholars translated the NIV. 

Any one can read and study the Bible and understand it - Is is easy to understand ? ( yes ) Is it hard to understand ? ( yes ) 

The accuracy of the Bible can be proven in that hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled.


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## BHB (Apr 28, 2008)

Wow!! I left for a few days and everybody got off on all sorts of "rabbit trails". Yes, the title to the thread is "Do you know him? GDG". I think that the answer doesn't include whether we are offended, reading the KJV, Hebrew or Greek bibles. It's not whether we subscribe to baptism by immersion or sprinkling or have even been baptized. It's about keeping the main thing the Main thing! The Main thing is Him!

Just an observation,

BHB


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

BHB...

That is why Paul so wisely made this statement to folks who were easily sidetracked:

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. (1 Corinthians 2:2 ESV...the cut-eyes are about the chosen translation)


However, those other issues _are_ very important since some folks build false doctrinal ministries around them. We must earnestly defend the faith in its entirety. Paul, who made the statement above, also made this most profound statement...one all teachers of the Gospel would do well to emulate (bold emphasis mine):

Acts 20:26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I _am_ innocent of the blood of all _men._ 27 For I have not shunned to declare to you *the whole counsel of God*. 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.



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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Keith Farmer said:


> Ah but John I sooo enjoy philosophical dissection...don't you want to play?
> 
> 
> I will assume once again here John...are you a KJV-Only advocate...or worse; a militant?
> ...


We are talking about various people quoting what they purport to be the Word Of God, I would hardly explain away a difference as simply being a "textual differences of manuscripts" The citations I posted explain how this could have occurred, you chose to simply ignore that it happened

As I said earlier you should assume nothing...I'll narrow it down for you I am actually the antithesis of a* KJV- only *advocate, in that when I feel the need to "thump" one I use the NAB

You have been asked questions about the textual basis for your positions by myself and others, rather than answer you simply ask more questions..................

john


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Wouldn't this thread be more appropriate on the political forum?


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> You have been asked questions about the textual basis for your positions by myself and others, rather than answer you simply ask more questions..................


John...I don't recall anyone else asking about the textual basis for my position.

I asked my questions of you simply because you used code words that KJV-only folks use (such as Wolcott and Hort being Gnostic). I do not care to argue nonsensical issues such as KJV-onlyism which is more of a cult issue than reasonable theological debate.

When I study and prepare for teaching I prefer to utilize www.biblegateway.com as a resource. They have every legitimate translation available on-line whereby one can compare translations to get a proper handle on the text. I also utilize an interlinear bible.

For my personal bibles I use a NKJV and a NASB. I also really like the ESV and have one on the way...this one in fact:

http://www.esvmacarthurstudybible.com/esv/

Hope that helps. 


Here are a few very good articles and discussion regarding the issue:

Regarding the ESV-

http://www.ligonier.org/reformation-study-bible/about/why-esv/

Regarding egalitarianism-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHXDmcE2zYs

On Biblical Inerrancy (a good statement)-

http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html

On Ruckmanism-

http://vintage.aomin.org/ResponseToRuckman.html

For truth concerning KJV-onlyism I recommend James White's book:

http://www.christianbook.com/king-j...de=WW&netp_id=558428&event=ESRCN&view=details

A link to James' website: http://vintage.aomin.org/kjvo.html



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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

This may be a word for someone in need:

While religions (as well as some earthly pleasures) offer some measure of temporal happiness to their adherents *only *the bible assures mankind that God's people have redemption resulting in true and eternal joy. Only in the God of the bible (the only true God) is there abundant forgiveness for sin and rebellion, unmerited grace to save wretches like me, and a richness in mercy for the perishing as some of us were prior to Jesus the Christ saving our souls. 

Here are a few verses that give credibility to my statement:


*Psalm 86:5-7 (New International Version)*

You are forgiving and good, O Lord, 
abounding in love to all who call to you. 
Hear my prayer, O LORD; 
listen to my cry for mercy. 
In the day of my trouble I will call to you, 
for you will answer me.


*Psalm 130:3-5 (English Standard Version)* 

If you, O LORD, should mark iniquities, 
O Lord, who could stand?
But with you there is forgiveness,
that you may be feared.


*Daniel 9:9 (English Standard Version)* 

To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against him 


*John 3:16-17 (English Standard Version)* 

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 


*Ephesians 1:7 (English Standard Version)* 

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 


*Colossians 1:13-14 (English Standard Version)* 

He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 


*1 John 1:9 (English Standard Version)* 

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 

There is forgiveness found at the foot of the cross of Jesus. There is abundant grace and mercy for the miserable. There is peace for the troubled heart. There is joy for the downtrodden...Do You Know Him?





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## BWCA Labs Margo Penke (Jan 20, 2010)

Keith Farmer said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE&feature=player_embedded#!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, we know Him. This is our King, a King of Kings. Jesus is the Lord of our Lives. ><> Margo & Al Penke


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

Praise His name Margo...

Here is a great song that speaks to my heart toward my Savior:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6WXQREP7oA



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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

Keith Farmer said:


> For my personal bibles I use a NKJV and a NASB. I also really like the ESV and have one on the way...this one in fact:
> 
> http://www.esvmacarthurstudybible.com/esv/


Keith,

"We" have that bible too. Although, I need to get a second copy. My wife doesn't let it out of her sight often!

Tom


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Hi Keith,
Congrats on your success at the trial.
I have spent the day without a keyboard (gosh darn dogs!) and sat here with tied hands.
Having laid my own belief out on post 61 of this thread, as very many also have. I do have a question for you.
In the beginning (Genesis reference intended) Mankind was spread far and wide. We did not email and hang
Out in Internet forums. Folk in the Dead Sea could not instantly communicate with folk in Central America.
Using an example we all are familiar with, Ducks. Will help me ask this. There are ducks all over the world.

God created many different ducks. Puddlers, Divers, Sea Ducks and Wood ducks. 
They are all over the world, like early man. None are more perfect than another. They all are just what they need to be.
Perfect in their environmental niche.
Now from earliest time, like those ducks, God created many different religions. They also are all over the world.

Why is it so many folk are so sure the religion they use is more perfect (redundant?) than the religion on the continent next door?
Are the Hassidic more perfect than the Hindu? Are the Methodist more perfect than the Mayan? 
If you dropped Jesus and Buddha into the octagon with Big John McCarthy would they kick each others hinny?
Of course not. 





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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Ken you kill me. Thanks for the smile. As I said before every human being has a treasure in their soul. You proved it Ken. And John Fallon I'll see you this weekend at Del Bay you have a precious treasure in your soul to be cherished.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> Now from earliest time, like those ducks, God created many different religions.


Ken...God did not create many different religions. The bible says this concerning salvation: 

Acts 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11 *This Jesus *is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 *And there is salvation in no one else*, *for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
* 


Jesus Himself said the following to the Jewish religious leadership (note: He is referring to the Old Testament scriptures here since there was no New Testament at this time...therefore, the bible, Jesus declares, from cover to cover speak of Him):

 John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is *they *that bear witness about *me*,



The entirety of God's revelation points to Jesus from start to finish. 

He has all power...And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (Matthew 28:18)

He has all wisdom and knowledge...in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. (Colossians 2:3)

He loves us..."For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)

He will judge mankind...on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:16)




In actuality Ken, Nimrod is the individual responsible for starting apostate religions on the earth. In Genesis 10-11 you can read about Nimrod. He and his band of men built the tower of Babel in an effort to "make a name for themselves". John Calvin commenting on this text said this: *This is the perpetual infatuation of the world; to neglect heaven, and to seek immortality on earth, where every thing is fading and transient. Therefore, their cares and pursuits tend to no other end than that of acquiring for themselves a name on earth.*








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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Now Keith,
You are dodging my question a wee bit here.
Jesus is the perfect duck in his niche. He is responding
To the Hebrew establishment in his statements.
Simultaneously, in completely different areas of the world
Other very good men were doing the same.
Thinking God only created one religion is as close minded
As thinking life was only created on one planet, in my opinion.
If the Israelites are the chosen, where does that leave the Inuit?

Ps- who created Nimrod?


.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

Ken...I am not avoiding anything that I am aware of.

The problem here that I see is the lack of understanding on your part (at least that is what you are demonstrating) in terms of who Jesus is. I'll not go into great length but Jesus was not just a prophet that lived and died 2000 years ago. The bible declares that Jesus is Emmanuel...*God with us*.

John's Gospel account says this: John 1:1 In the beginning was *the Word*, and *the Word was with God*, *and the Word was God.* 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Also,

Hebrews 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 *He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature*, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name
he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.


Jesus is no ordinary man. He is God who came in the flesh, dwelt among us, lived sinlessly, died vicariously, was buried, rose again on the third day, was exalted on high where He reigns as King of King and Lord of Lords. He has no rival...



.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

You should use caution on your assumptions of both Mr. Fallon and I.
Both of us asking different, yet pointed questions.
I do not mind you avoiding both and am amused you feel you cannot answer 
because of MY lack of understanding. Sadly that line is used by many.
I have very much enjoyed this thread Keith. When you feel you have grown more as a teacher.
I’ll still be here, or is it hear? J

BTW, ever read this page? Click - http://www.pbs.org/thebuddha 







.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> You should use caution on your assumptions of both Mr. Fallon and I.
> Both of us asking different, yet pointed questions.
> I do not mind you avoiding both and am amused you feel you cannot answer
> because of MY lack of understanding. Sadly that line is used by many.
> ...


Ok Ken...I answered your questions as pointedly as they deserved. I did not answer the "who created Nimrod" question since your direction is rather aimless. Your arbitrary assertion that God created many different religions is simply a biased conjecture on your part and ontologically speaking is false based on James 1:13. 

In terms of anything Buddha related I could care less...

Here (not hear) is something for you to chew on...

Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.  19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? 
 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?



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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Keith Farmer said:


> Ok Ken...I answered your questions as pointedly as they deserved. I did not answer the "who created Nimrod" question since your direction is rather aimless. Your arbitrary assertion that God created many different religions is simply a biased conjecture on your part and ontologically speaking is false based on James 1:13.
> 
> *In terms of anything Buddha related I could care less...*


That is a sad thing Keith.
I feel if Jesus and Buddha were chillin’ in the gallery at 
A field trial they would get along very nicely.
It is the panicle of hypocrisy to post so many links
We MUST view before we can be allowed to enter into 
This discussion. Yet when a link is offered to you
Hell will freeze over before you view it. I am so sorry to hear your
Mind is so closed.
Do you know what you and those ever so pesky murdering terrorists 
Extremists have in common?
Your both absolutely sure your right and will not even consider reading
Any other views.
I’ll pray for you Keith.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> I’ll pray for you Keith.


Buddha is dead Ken. To whom are you going to pray?

The reason I could care less about Buddha is...he's dead Ken.

I serve a risen Savior. One day Ken He will open the books and judge mankind.

Buddha will be raised to be judged by Christ. Muhammad will be raised to be judged by Christ...all of the leaders of the "many religions" will be raised and judged by Christ.

*The Judgment of the Dead*

 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. 

In light of this fact Ken I thank God everyday for the grace and mercy the bible says He is rich in. I hope that you will experience His grace and mercy Ken. He is a wonderful savior!



.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Keith Farmer said:


> Buddha is dead Ken. To whom are you going to pray?
> 
> 
> 
> .


There you go making assumptions again Keith.
Did you even read my 3rd post in this thread?
I think not, it’s number 61.
You know, you get a bit testy when challenged it seems.







.


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## wheelhorse (Nov 13, 2005)

Ken Bora said:


> That is a sad thing Keith.
> I feel if Jesus and Buddha were chillin’ in the gallery at
> A field trial they would get along very nicely.


Like I said before, it is not up mankind to judge which only God can judge. The Bible is just a human interpretation of the Word of God. And humans are fallible.


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## Tatyana (Nov 6, 2007)

Very powerful!


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Keith your the kind of person in this world that we should fear.

Who understands does not preach
Who preaches does not understand

Keith how do you get around working on the sabbath? The Lords Day. Just curios.

John Fallon and Ken Bora you got guts to take on this topic. Where, ever you two go in the after life is where I want to go.


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## trinitylabs (Feb 13, 2006)

I believe that this thread was started with a very simple question "Do You Know Him?" This is a very simple question with one of two possible answers, those who don't know Him should seriously consider introducing yourself & those of us that do should be willing to do anything to help the others find Him. Being judgmental and hard headed is not any better than being hard hearted.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." -Matthew 28:19-20
The following is a list of commands which form the basis of our life in Christ. Most were spoken directly by Christ; many were added for clarity by the writers of the epistles.

1. Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you (Matt. 5:44).
2. Resist not evil: if a man smite thee on one cheek, turn to him the other also (Matt. 5:30-40).
3. Avenge not yourselves: rather give place unto wrath: and suffer yourselves to be defrauded (Rom. 12:18, 19).
4. If a man take away thy goods, ask them not again (Luke 6:29, 30).
5. Agree with your adversary quickly, submitting even to wrong for the sake of peace (Matt. 5:25; 1 Cor. 6:7).
6. Labor not to be rich: be ready to every good work, give to those who ask; relieve the afflicted (1 Tim. 6:8; Rom. 12:13; Heb. 13:16; James 1:27).
7. Do not your alms before men: Let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth (Matt. 6:1-4).
8. Recompense to no man evil for evil: overcome evil with good (Rom. 12:17).
9. Bless them that curse you; let no cursing come out of your mouth (Matt. 5:44; Rom. 12:14).
10. Render not evil for evil, or railing for railing, but contrary wise, blessing (1 Pet. 3:9).
11. Pray for them that despitefully use you and afflict you (Matt. 5:44).
12. Grudge not: judge not: complain not: condemn not (James 5:9; Matt. 7:1).
13. Put away anger, wrath, bitterness, and all evil speaking (Eph. 4:31; 1 Pet. 2:1).
14. Confess your faults one to another (James 5:16).
15. Be not conformed to this world: love not the world (Rom. 12:2; 1 John 2:15).
16. Deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts. If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off (Titus 2:13; Matt. 5:30).
17. Servants, be faithful, even to bad masters (Eph. 6:5-8).
18. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate (Rom. 12:16).
19. Owe no man anything (Rom. 13:7,8).
20. In case of sin (known or heard of) speak not of it to others, but tell the offending brother of the matter between thee and him alone, with a view to recovery (Matt. 18:15; Gal. 6:1).
21. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart (Matt. 22:37).
22. Pray always; pray with brevity and simplicity; pray secretly (Luke 18:1; Matt. 6:7).
23. In everything give thanks to God and recognize Him in all your ways (Eph. 5:20; Prov. 3:6).
24. As you would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them (Matt. 7:12).
25. Take Christ for an example and follow in his steps (1 Pet. 2:21).
26. Let Christ dwell in your heart by faith (Eph. 3:17).
27. Esteem Christ more highly than all earthly things; yea, than your own life (Luke 14:26).
28. Confess Christ freely before men (Luke 12:8).
29. Beware lest the cares of life or the allurements of pleasure weaken his hold on your heart (Matt. 24:44).
30. Love thy neighbor as thyself (Matt. 22:39).
31. Exercise lordship over no one (Matt. 23:11).
32. Seek not your own welfare only, nor bear your own burdens merely, but have regard to those of others (Phil. 2:4; Gal. 6:2).
33. Let your light shine before men: hold forth the word of life. Do good to all men as ye have opportunity (Matt. 5:16; Phil. 2:16; Gal. 6:10).
34. Be blameless and harmless, as the sons of God in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation (Phil. 2:15).
35. Be gentle, meek, kind-hearted, compassionate, merciful, forgiving (2 Tim. 2:24; Titus 2:2; Eph. 4:32).
36. Be sober, grave, sincere, temperate (Phil. 4:5; 1 Pet. 1:13; 5:8).
37. Speak the truth every man with his neighbor: put away all lying (Eph. 4:25).
38. Whatsoever ye do, do it heartily as unto the Lord, and not unto men (Col. 3:23).
39. Be watchful, vigilant, brave, joyful, courteous, and strong (1 Cor. 16:13; Phil. 4:4; 1 Thess. 5:6-10).
40. Be clothed with humility; be patient toward all (Col. 3:12; Rom. 12:12).
41. Follow peace with all men (Heb. 12:14).
42. Sympathize in the joys and sorrows of others (Rom. 12:15).
43. Follow after whatsoever things are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, virtuous, and praiseful (Phil. 4:8).
44. Refrain utterly from adultery, fornication, uncleanness, drunkenness, covetousness, wrath, strife, sedition, hatred, emulation, boasting, vainglory, envy, jesting, and foolish talking (Eph. 5:3,4).
45. Whatever you do, consider the effect of your action on the honor of God's name among men. Do all to the glory of God (1 Cor. 10:31; 3:17).
46. Reckon yourselves dead to all manner of sin. Henceforth live not to yourselves, but to him who died for you, and rose again (Rom. 6-11; 2 Cor. 5:15).
47. Be zealous of good works, always abounding in the work of the Lord, wearying not in well doing (Titus 2:14; Gal. 6:9).
48. Speak evil of no man (Titus 3:2).
49. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly (Col. 3:16).
50. Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt (Col. 3:8; 4:6).
51. Obey rules; submit to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake (Titus 3:1).
52. Be holy in all manner of conversation (1 Pet. 1:15, 16).
53. Give no occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully (1 Tim. 5:14). 

Words to live by.


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## Clay Rogers (Jul 8, 2008)

I really have no dog in this fight, but here goes. Why is it that when you read the first post, see what it is about and decide you don't like it, you can't go on and read another thread? This was posted as inspirational for those of us on RTF that do believe and to maybe touch an open-minded person that doesn't yet know Jesus Christ.

If you don't like the thread, dont post on it. He wasn't calling anyone out, trying to be spiteful or anything of the sort.

Some one posted earlier in the thread, if you don't like it, leave it alone.


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

Yes I Know him and have for the last 30 years. Ken I'll help you out with your question. Christians can't answer this question without offending someone and then we are painted in a corner of not being what we say we are. We are suppose to show love for everyone and when we state what the bible tells us then we are not being Christ like to non believers. The bible also states that even if you don't have the word of God you should have know him by what you see in Nature, kind of like what you said about being in a Swamp watching ducks fall. By the way we don't go to Church to be Christians, we go to Church to get full because by the end of the week we are running on Empty being filled with all of the Worldly things. Here is a post I want to share that proves to me every day there is a God that love me.
______________________________________________________________
Guy's I want to thank you for your support during a hard time in my life. I could feel each prayer lifted up for me and my family and I want to thank you for that. God give us 2 days with our son before he took his life and Jonathan explained everything to us so we could have some understanding of what was going on in his head. It was hard to understand why because he had a 4.0 all the way through high school and 3 years of college. He had more love in our family in 1 day than most people get in a life time. He knew we would do anything for him and we even purchased a condo in Knoxville for him and his wife. But after explaining what was going on in his mind, I wouldn't have made it a week. If you see me at a Hunt test and want to know, just ask because his story is something that I will never want to forget. Don't feel bad for me either because I had 21 years of greatness that I will never forget. I loved that boy more than life, but I know he loved me even more. 

Let me share an email and a story that happened a couple of days ago. I have my hardest time during the morning hours when everyone is sleeping and thanking about hunting with my son. I got up one morning about 5 days after his death and went to my computer to read my emails and this is the only email that I received that morning. Don't get me wrong I'm not into strange things but this lifted me up that morning. Here is the Email.

-----Original Message-----
From: Smith, Paul D. (SSC-NASA)[Jacobs Technology] [[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 

I love you so much!

Chip
___________________________________________________

The night before my son left this world he ask me how I do everything that I do, like building a home and great family. He had just gotten married and had a baby on the way. I told him that if I had a fraction of what he had then I could have been anything, but being dumb I could only be certain things. I told him that he could be anything that he wanted to be, even an astronaut. The morning of his death my wife and daughter got to hear him tell them that he loved them. I didn't get that because I went to work. He also prayed at the bedfast table that everyone in his family including his wife and unborn baby would be happy. He never prayed for him self and that was the way he was, thinking of everyone else. Notice the email is from Paul Smith and Jonathan's full name was Jonathan Paul Smith. Also notice the email came from NASA.Gov. I emailed him back and he told me he made a mistake, but to me it wasn't a mistake at all. Now what are the odds this could have happened.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

stumpholehunter said:


> I really have no dog in this fight, but here goes. Why is it that when you read the first post, see what it is about and decide you don't like it, you can't go on and read another thread? This was posted as inspirational for those of us on RTF that do believe and to maybe touch an open-minded person that doesn't yet know Jesus Christ.
> 
> If you don't like the thread, dont post on it. He wasn't calling anyone out, trying to be spiteful or anything of the sort.
> 
> Some one posted earlier in the thread, if you don't like it, leave it alone.


i cant agree more, i have profound respect for anyones personal beliefs and their right to express them. this thread was indeed posted in an inspirational manner, i have read the thread with great interest from the inspirational standpoint and then was met with confusion as to why some would want to make it a debate by questioning the validity of people's - especial the OP - personal beliefs. leave the attacks to POTUS. i dont see keith going into to other unrelated threads and proselytizing there, he presented this in a very tasteful manner. whats the big deal?

onward christian soldiers regards......


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

2tall said:


> Wouldn't this thread be more appropriate on the political forum?


I agree-politics and religion can and will be debated forever. Please move to POTUS.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> You know, you get a bit testy when challenged it seems.


Ken...sorry if you perceived my response as "testy"...I am as cool as a cucumber my friend. 

Further, it is not me that you are challenging. I have merely stated what God teaches in His inspired and divine Word. I am charged with defending those truths and I willingly do so.

Ken I did pray for you this morning.



.


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> onward christian soldiers regards.....


Thanks David for a mature adult response.






.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Keith Farmer said:


> Thanks David for a mature adult response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well, i do have my brief moments of clarity in mortal and spiritual understanding, regardless of what some may believe....

as some dont understand what makes me tick, i cant fathom why some have to attack anothers spiritual beliefs especially in thread like this that was so positive amogst those of like spiritual thought. and those same people are the first to point out where they think someone else is being the aggressor......

this thread as originally intended is perfectly fine here in the main forum as <gdg> IMHO, the debate portion is a different animal though


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> this thread as originally intended is perfectly fine here in the main forum as <gdg> IMHO, the debate portion is a different animal though


I agree.

My intention was not debate rather to share a great video from a man who loves the Lord.

I have tried to steer away from debate by intentionally ignoring most of the nonsense that has been posted. However, I have been drawn to the conversation with Ken. Ken asked a few important questions. I answered them.

Finally, I am urged in scripture to always be ready to give a word with regards to the hope that I have. That hope is detailed expertly in the video. For those who have not seen it here it is again...enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTF...ayer_embedded#!


*I wish I could describe Him...He is indescribable!!* *Do You Know Him?*


.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Keith Farmer said:


> Ken...sorry if you perceived my response as "testy"...I am as cool as a cucumber my friend.
> 
> Further, it is not me that you are challenging. I have merely stated what God teaches in His inspired and divine Word. I am charged with defending those truths and I willingly do so.
> 
> ...





Keith Farmer said:


> I agree.
> 
> My intention was not debate rather to share a great video from a man who loves the Lord.
> 
> ...


Thank You Keith,
I had a very good time in this thread.
I personally think it is fine right were it is.
For any of us at any task. In order to hone our skill
Challenges must be addressed. I still am a bit bummed you did not
Peruse the Buddha page. Like dog training, a Lardy disciple
With an open mind can find truths in a Graham DVD.
Have a great day!



.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Yes, I surely do! Talked to him about an hour ago.;-)


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Pete said:


> It all boils down to weather you want to believe the word of God has integrity or not.
> 
> There are over 4000 organized belief systems in the world and only 1 God. Is God schizophrenic or what.,,, and there are millions of personally imagined belief s in the world.( made up in the head) you know climb to the mountain top and God speaks to them,,,,are they moses or something.
> 
> ...


No Pete, for me what it all boils down to is which Bible manuscript translation, which incidently is the work of mortal man, most accurately convey the WORD of GOD, .................... and how does one know for sure ?

Thus my origional question and the balance of my posts

john
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Today, 06:05 PM 
Replies: 124 Do You Know Him (GDG)... 
Views: 4,565 Posted By john fallon 
No Pete, for me what it all boils down to is...

No Pete, for me what it all boils down to is which Bible manuscript translation, which incidently is the work of mortal man, most accurately convey the WORD of GOD, .................... and how does... 

Forum: RTF - Retriever Training Forum Yesterday, 01:04 PM 
Replies: 124 Do You Know Him (GDG)... 
Views: 4,565 Posted By john fallon 
We are talking about various people quoting what...

We are talking about various people quoting what they purport to be the Word Of God, I would hardly explain away a difference as simply being a "textual differences of manuscripts" The citations I... 


Forum: RTF - Retriever Training Forum 10-31-2010, 10:06 PM 
Replies: 124 Do You Know Him (GDG)... 
Views: 4,565 Posted By john fallon 
Let's save the philosophical disection of each...

Let's save the philosophical disection of each other for another time and decide where the WORD is MORE accurately depicted. 
Is it in the KJV the NKJV or the NIV or New American Standard Bible

I... 


Forum: RTF - Retriever Training Forum 10-31-2010, 08:54 PM 
Replies: 124 Do You Know Him (GDG)... 
Views: 4,565 Posted By john fallon 
Never assume anything about me  Before we go...

Never assume anything about me 

Before we go off on that tangent,since no one who loves and respects the Bible would accept anything less than total accuracy as the goal of translation, I want you... 


Forum: RTF - Retriever Training Forum 10-31-2010, 07:57 PM 
Replies: 124 Do You Know Him (GDG)... 
Views: 4,565 Posted By john fallon 
Before going too much further,...I'd like someone...

Before going too much further,...I'd like someone to be able categorically vouch for the accuracy any/all of the hand written Hebrew and Greek manuscripts from which each/any of the English... 


Forum: RTF - Retriever Training Forum 10-31-2010, 07:09 PM 
Replies: 124 Do You Know Him (GDG)... 
Views: 4,565 Posted By john fallon 
Which translation of the bible is the most...

Which translation of the bible is the most...


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## Keith Farmer (Feb 8, 2003)

> which incidently is the work of mortal man


Well now see John my assumption was not incorrect. I originally stated that I assumed you presupposed the bible is incorrect. You said (trying to be big I suppose?) *never* assume anything about you. I asked you to clarify whether or not you believed the bible was inspired, inerrant, and infallible...I got more questions.

However, dear John, it appears you *do *reject the truth of the bible and you just stated it in your own words.

Just for clarity here are a few things to consider: There are no original autographs available (that I am aware of) but there are many readings that are very recent to Jesus' time. In fact, there are over 5000 manuscripts available for the new Testament alone and the Old Testament is the same Old Testament (with slight variations of combined books etc) that the Jews have used for thousands of years.

There are numerous promises in the bible regarding the preservation of God's Word, the eternal nature of the Word, the divine inspiration (and that term literally means God-breathed...in other words God breathed out the words of the bible...they ARE NOT the work of mere mortal men)

If you want to learn more here is a great 4 part teaching series that was recently done by a wonderful man...Brian Edwards. In this series Brian details this topic with clarity.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/bible-is-true/why-66



.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> Thank You Keith,
> I had a very good time in this thread.
> I personally think it is fine right were it is.
> For any of us at any task. In order to hone our skill
> ...


then why did you not start a new thread along those lines rather than hijack Keith's well-intentioned thread here? they had a great thing going amongst like minded folk, until......

i look forward to reading more of your posts keith - whether i personally agree or not. you are the twin of my brother in law (who is a chief of police) and i do enjoy hearing your outlook. hopefully your future threads are not hijaked by infidels.... (lol)


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> Thank You Keith,
> I had a very good time in this thread.
> I personally think it is fine right were it is.
> For any of us at any task. In order to hone our skill
> ...





david gibson said:


> then why did you not start a new thread along those lines rather than hijack Keith's well-intentioned thread here? ......


Because Chris Atkinson asked us in post 41 of this thread to keep all the religious stuff in ONE thread!!!!!!!!
Please try to keep up David. I know it is tough for you but please read before spewing.





.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> Because Chris Atkinson asked us in post 41 of this thread to keep all the religious stuff in ONE thread!!!!!!!!
> Please try to keep up David. I know it is tough for you but please read before spewing.
> 
> 
> ...


ummm, that new thread i mentioned should be started would have been a potus thread. excuse me for being on the road for the bulk of the day. sorry if i cant keep up with RTF while driving cross-states in driving thunderstorms... 

so are you going to stalk me forever ken? you really need a better passtime dude.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

How is it stalking when YOU asked me a question, and I answered it??????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
do you need a dictionary as well?






.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> How is it stalking when YOU asked me a question, and I answered it??????
> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> do you need a dictionary as well?
> ...


dude drop it, havent you hijacked this thread enough?


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## Mike Berube (Feb 8, 2003)

Yes I know Him...

Keith my brother, I hope you still plan on posting up your training set-ups.

Note to self: just imagine if every one of these 160 + posts were of training set-ups from RTF'rs from across the country.

God Bless America


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

Every word in the Bible is the absolute and literal truth. Except the the word wine which of course means grape juice.


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## Chris Miller (Dec 16, 2005)

Ken Bora said:


> With an open mind can find truths in a Graham DVD.
> Have a great day!


LMFAO I now have to clean my screen and keyboard. Thanks Ken


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## JDogger (Feb 2, 2003)

Wow 135 replies to a thread labled GDG...! 

Decided to read it from last to first, then, being bored waiting for election results, from first to last again. The result being...would someone please take the vice-grips and pull the ice-pick from my forehead...
This makes even PP palatable. 
There were, however some amusing replies.

23 minutes I'll never get back again, regards, JD

PS that hopey, changey, thingy should be working it's magic for some of you tonite...hope it lasts...

There now...move it to PP.


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

Keith the only thing I see wrong with this thread would be the question? Does he know you (GDG). Alot of people know him, but fewer people are known by him.......


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

I know Him and love Him....and He knows me and loves me....even with my faults and shortcomings.....and, best of all, He is with me each and every day!


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

> No Pete, for me what it all boils down to is which Bible manuscript translation, which incidently is the work of mortal man, most accurately convey the WORD of GOD, .................... and how does one know for sure ?
> 
> Thus my origional question and the balance of my posts
> 
> john


How does one know for sure? Only by *FAITH*


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

kimsmith said:


> How does one know for sure? Only by *FAITH*


Faith is not knowledge.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

david gibson said:


> dude drop it, havent you hijacked this thread enough?


Hey BoBo, 
Do we have enough picnic baskets?
I don’t know Yogi, how many is enough?

I have not hi-jacked this thread at all.
I have had a wonderful discussion with Keith.
Hopefully I have helped Keith hone his skill at defending his chosen faith.
Hopefully I have planted a seed that no mater what faith you chose reading texts 
About the worlds other religions is a fun pastime, I enjoy it and know others would as well.
And as a side note, I have interacted with you David. You truly are an internet bully.
Who thinks any philosophical difference with your chosen beliefs is a personal attack.
Like some other feller once said, a long time ago.
I forgive you, for you no not what you do J
And BTW, love your wife’s nuts!


.


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

Ken Bora said:


> Hey BoBo,
> Do we have enough picnic baskets?
> I don’t know Yogi, how many is enough?
> 
> ...


Hey Ken, are you aware that it is BooBoo not bobo. Or was that a freudian slip?
And for the record I thought you defended your position in a very positive manner and appeared to be less animous than Keith in doing so.


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

> Faith is not knowledge.


Faith is greater knowledge than most will ever know.

People put faith in a lot of things that they know for sure. Example when you sit in a chair you know it's going to hold you thats faith.


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Snicklefritz said:


> And, the topic of this forum is......????????
> 
> Hiding proselytizing behind (GDG)... is a bit disengenous.
> 
> ...


Funny how you read to page three before you posted??? Just saying. 

The Lord Is my Savior!


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

At a point in time to be a Christian was to be a Catholic and there was one Catholic /Christian bible.
There were those who protested against some of the teaching of the Catholic church and started their own (Protestant) religions . The Church of England , The church created by Henry VIII after the Act of Supremacy in 1534 is one example. Lutherans ,Methodists, Presbyterians, and of course Baptists are also among the major groups of these Protestant religions... each with their own chosen bible .

Keith, I'm not going to assume to know where you are coming from from within the above plethora of protestant religions though my guess would be one of the multitude of autonomous Baptist denominations . But no matter which,their history tells us that they were all started by man...........

So when one of them asks me a question about my Biblical beliefs I have to ask them to which bible they are refering

john


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

John that was a point in time, what about before that time or the time we are living in today. Christ said to leave your borders and preach the word, the word has been from the beginning and Christ is the word. So the word of God has always been and will always be.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

kimsmith said:


> John that was a point in time, what about before that time or the time we are living in today. Christ said to leave your borders and preach the word, the word has been from the beginning and Christ is the word. So the word of God has always been and will always be.


That "point" in time was actually many centuries and I am sure that the words 
'leave your borders" cannot even be losely translate to mean 'start a new religion"

Be that as it may, you say "the word". I say care must be taken that you are actually preaching THE Word, which can only be found in an accurate translation of the old manuscripts.

some are some are not regards


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

No one said something about creating a new religion, Christ and the word is always the same. Men/Women interpreted the word the way they want to, but the word will always be true.....I'm part of an organized religion but I consider myself a Christian and I don't care about denominations.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Kim
I have well over 5000 posts on the RTF and before this thread you can count on the fingers of your hands the posts of a religious nature,politics or general GDG, and after this post I have no plans to do so again but.........

At this moment I feel compelled to call BS on those of you who have claimed God's Son as your very own Savior to the exclusion of the rest of Christianity, which amounts to about 2.2 billion souls including mine, using passages taken out of the context in which they were delivered to make your point. 

All else being equal, to say that the difference between going to heaven or not is the method by which you are Baptised or the format by which you accepted Christ as your Savior is an insulting assault on ones intelligence which I could not let go unanswered. I find comfort in knowing that there are so may of us and so few of you.

Live well and God bless regards

john


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

John I didn't say anything that would offend anyone by my post, I'll never say my beliefs are better than anyone else's. I'm not sure what you even mean by "I find comfort in knowing that there are so may of us and so few of you." Are we talking about Catholic and Protestants by that comment. I find comfort in knowing that if you seek God he is easy to find.....


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

john fallon said:


> Kim
> I have well over 5000 posts on the RTF and before this thread you can count on the fingers of your hands the posts of a religious nature,politics or general GDG, and after this post I have no plans to do so again but.........
> 
> At this moment I feel compelled to call BS on those of you who have claimed God's Son as your very own Savior to the exclusion of the rest of Christianity, which amounts to about 2.2 billion souls including mine, using passages taken out of the context in which they were delivered to make your point.
> ...


oh for Christ's sake people whats the issue? (pun intended)

really -why should one really care what another's spiritual beliefs are if said persons beliefs are not a threat???????

seriously - here you are John arguing minuscule differences in various versions of Christianity and the bible. and for what reason? although it is JUST a discussion on an internet forum devoted to training retrievers, do you not see the parallels to real life? to argue over religious differences is folly, look at ireland/england. christians killing christians because one thinks the other is not the same color of christian.

i'll repeat myself - Keith started this thread as a topic of like minded folks that have a personal relationship with Jesus. thats all he intended - and guess what? I dont fit in to this crowd! but i still enjoyed reading and understanding their profound belief, and i wholeheartedly respect that and will defend their right to do so. if you dont like it, DONT read and DONT POST.

keith - i truly hope to meet you someday, i am very inspired by your devotion. my beliefs may differ, but no more than they also do with numerous members on my family so its no issue at all. one of my very best friends is a hard core LDS that i met just 5 yrs ago or so. its amazing how except for the core religious doctrine everything else we hold true and sacred is the same. we have learned a lot from each other and there is no doubt we are friends for life.

for certain people to make this simple thread of brotherhood a topic of debate is really low IMHO.


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## James Seibel (Aug 20, 2008)

john fallon said:


> Kim
> I have well over 5000 posts on the RTF and before this thread you can count on the fingers of your hands the posts of a religious nature,politics or general GDG, and after this post I have no plans to do so again but.........
> 
> At this moment I feel compelled to call BS on those of you who have claimed God's Son as your very own Savior to the exclusion of the rest of Christianity, which amounts to about 2.2 billion souls including mine, using passages taken out of the context in which they were delivered to make your point.
> ...


I have a question for you John : 

Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 

Luke 24:44 He said to them, " This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." 45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures, 46 He told them, " This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning a Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 48 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high. 

This was what Peter preached starting at Jerusalem : 

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, " Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So are these scripture taken out of context ? and My second question What did Jesus mean when he said to Peter I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven what ever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven ? 

My third question is this : Jesus stressed Baptism is the Great Commission in fact it is stressed through out the New Testament . Why did Jesus stress it so much ? 

Read Romans 6:3-7 - Why was that passage placed in the Scriptures ? Is Romans 6:3-7 that hard to understand ? 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all

Is this not the one baptism in Acts 2:38 ? 

What dose the water mean in ? > 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God . 

1John 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood:and the three are in agreement.

In fact John the book of Acts is full of verses about being baptized . Should I disregard them ? 

Please in lighten me .


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

I talked to him off and on for a while now. 

October 21st I asked him to take over. 

Being in the concrete business I understand how important a foundation is. Each day I have worked on building a good one. 

All my life I've had people around me that I knew knew him. I just never got real close like they were. 

Well, we are becoming close now and I look forward to a long lasting relationship.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I talked to him off and on for a while now.
> 
> October 21st I asked him to take over.


That's great news brother!

Tom


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

Ken Guthrie said:


> All my life I've had people around me that I knew knew him. I just never got real close like they were.
> 
> Well, we are becoming close now and I look forward to a long lasting relationship.


I have a few very good friends who are 'Spiritually' strong. When you meet such a person, who passes no judgement and desires no ill will, even to those who despise or perhaps judge them, it is truly inspiring. I hope someday to have the sense of Spiritual Peace that these people have...You know it when you see it.

There is a VERY distinct difference between Religion and Spirituality...I personally realized this when I had the opportunity to read a couple of very good books..
One being 'The Shack'...
the other being by a very good friend of my Grandmother's - Farewell to Religion.
http://www.e-booktime.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FTR-PB&Category_Code=PG

Juli


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

I saw it @ church a year and a half ago. That's good stuff along with the this one. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-UdyDGCXNA&sns=em


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## James Seibel (Aug 20, 2008)

Pete said:


> Kim
> Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
> 
> But sets in contrast
> ...


Baptize in the Greek means - Immersion - 

Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

This passage is very clear buried with in baptism - go back to Romans 6:3-7

Acts 19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive ?" "John's baptism," they replied. 4 Paul said , " John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is in Jesus" 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of Lord Jesus. 

Why then did these people who were baptized by John need to be RE Baptized ? 

Baptize in the Greek means- Immersion -

read Acts 8:12 / Acts 9 Saul's Conversion

Acts 10:46 : For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said 47 Can anyone keep these people from being baptized in water ? They have received the Holy Spirit as we have.

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up , be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. 

Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?" 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him .


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

this is the best thread since the biting chessie that got fixed and got a derby jam on the way home!



Losthwy said:


> Every word in the Bible is the absolute and literal truth. Except the the word wine which of course means grape juice.


this quote was really funny to me. losthwy you will be pleased to know that at least one "good ole southern baptist" takes the bible literally.

you all probably heard this one but, "you know why us baptists don't make love standing up?...... looks too much like dancing!!!"

what about my buddy who says, "i always take both my baptist friends fishing at the same time. if i take one he drinks all my beer, if i take both they don't drink any of my beer!"

the difference in a southern baptist and a methodist? the methodist will speak to you at the liquor store.

gibby you are a very "tolerant" person. i think it is commendable that you support others in stating their beliefs. i thought you were going to start a cult with the writings of the profit john lennon as it's cannon in an earlier post. btw i don't think you are a cyber bully!!

and whoever got on keith a while back for working on the sabbath, just remember, as Jesus and His Disciples traveled they were questioned about gathering ears of corn to eat on the sabbath. the Master stated (this is not a quote from any translation, just a paraphrased recollection of my own) "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." God rested on the seventh day. i beleive this was an example to man to take a day off, rest, reflect and worship. we all know pros take mondays off and since Jesus freed us from all the legalism i think keith's ok. he is certainly blessed to be running on Sunday i would think!

ken i have never had your syrup. others bear witness in their writings (regardless of translation) to its quality. i have faith that when i do finally taste it, it's gonna be awesome! i imagine when you were taught to tap the maple tree for its sap as a youngster you may have asked, "what about this tree?" no son, thats an oak. "what about this tree?" no son, that's a pine. "what about this tree?" i would have asked my dad as you may have, why only the maple? my dad would have said, "son we will talk about that later, we gotta get to work, tap and hang these buckets on the maple trees."

ken, i see keith as doing his best to *share* the truth of the gospel. keith did not say about Jesus "no man comes to the father but by Me". Jesus said that about Jesus! in the great commission as quoted in earlier posts Jesus told keith and the rest of us to get to work. i am sure we will have time to talk to the father after the work is done. i believe only then will we understand the why's of your thoughtful questions.

remember christians "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness and temperence. against such there is no law." Gal. 5:22. fruit is singular. all those attributes together constitute a single "fruit". so when typing a message to post think about it.


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## PremierGundogs (Feb 27, 2010)

You all have written so many great post on this one... 

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the light, no one comes to the Father except thru me"!!!!

pretty simple huh!!!!!!!!

For you all to enjoy from my website see below... 

http://premiergundogs.com/Gospel.html


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