# Field dogs that die suddenly



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I am doing a little research on Labrador Retrievers( field trial bred dogs) that may have heart disease or die suddenly for unknown reasons. Please see poll above or if you know of a dog that has heart disease or has died suddenly for unknown reasons I would appreciate any info by email or PM Pedigrees are especially helpful.
Thanks so much


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

I have heard of heart disease in Labradors but I do not know of any field Labs that have heart disease or that died suddenly. I don't see that option.


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## Beverly Burns (Apr 20, 2006)

We had "Ivan", our Lab. who died suddenly at 9. No signs of any health issues. Ate his dinner, I went to air them al and he was dead in his crate. We also have Goldens that we had cardiac certs. for due to heart problems in the breed. I've always wondered about old Ivan.


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

How can the study be accurate without an autopsy of the dog to determine death?


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## Backcast (Jun 1, 2006)

Through an unfortunate set of circumstances I have had to learn a lot about TVD this past week. Check out "TVD in Labrador Retrievers" on Facebook. A great source of information.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

moscowitz said:


> How can the study be accurate without an autopsy of the dog to determine death?


LOL trust me this is not a scientific study but a personal one. I am of the firm believe there is more heart disease in the field trial bred labrador than people know or will admit. I believe field trial dogs should have echo clearances done 
before breeding. It is the engine of the dog , and nobody is worried about it.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

I googled up Canine TVD and discovered tons of stuff and including some excellent places to research. The summarized view is that most labs with this condition die before 3 years of age and it is congenital but not clear as to inheritance. As Moscowitz offered , no autopsy , who knows. I am a health "nut" and learned decades ago to research all potential puppy purchase lines PRIOR to buying. I require all lines to have a 4 generation of 10 year plus longevity. It is sooo easy to find that out these days. IMHO


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

Before I knew what I know now my thought was; If a dog can reach the upper levels of field trial work then how could anything be wrong with the heart? I mean, dogs with heart conditions could not possibly hold up to the work required.

I found I was very wrong... It's very possible.
I was told my TVD pup should live a totally normal life and I should run him like any other dog until he gives me a reason not to... Which that reason may never even happen.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

The heart congenital defects in field dogs show up quickly, most by under a year, especially if they are worked and competed, and visit the vet. If field pups are from multiple FC's in the pedigree that were also bred a lot (possibly hundreds of breedings) the lack of positive findings by vets are multiplied by the the amount of individuals. Since the genetics is not clear, (some places say one gene from one parent may be responsible) and you are combining field and bench, maybe you should research the bench side which has more half brother half sister breedings and multiple linebreedings to the same dogs.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

ErinsEdge said:


> _*The heart congenital defects in field dogs show up quickly, most by under a year, especially if they are worked and competed and they are from multiple FC's in the pedigree that were bred a lot*_. Since the genetics is not clear, and you are combining field and bench, maybe you should research the bench side which has more half brother half sister breedings and multiple linebreedings to the same dogs.


I am not talking about field show crosses, I am well aware that it is in show dogs. BUT most of those good breeders are doing echos . I am talking about pure field trial lines. So , the bolded line above is what concern's me. What do you mean?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

So you think if both parents have Echo's they can't produce an individual that does have TVD? I clarified my other statement.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

can two clear hips create a dysplastic dog? Why are people so worried about hips and not hearts?


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Do you know that dogs can have a murmur that is missed by your regular vet? That dogs can have moderate TVD and be worked and competed and not ever show a symptom.


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

swliszka said:


> I googled up Canine TVD and discovered tons of stuff and including some excellent places to research. The summarized view is that most labs with this condition die before 3 years of age and it is congenital but not clear as to inheritance. As Moscowitz offered , no autopsy , who knows.


This is true for dogs severely affected by TVD ONLY (often they have other heart issues as well . Plenty of dogs live long lives and die from causes other than thier TVD. Mild to moderate TVD dogs can do FT work and compete and never show symptoms AND live to 10 or above. 

I know this because my dogs cadiologist is pretty much the best of the best and I talked to her when my dog was confirmed to have TVD.... I did not rely on an Internet search.

Also it is widely accepted by cardiologists to be genetic, they just don't know how it's inherited yet.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Bridget Bodine said:


> can two clear hips create a dysplastic dog? Why are people so worried about hips and not hearts?


I would say because of lack of heart problems. There are "breeders" that test for all kinds of problems so they can brag their dogs are better than others. It doesn't prove anything. Crap happens, but if it happens once in 50 years of breeding, you don't do that breeding again. You don't demand that everybody do the testing because you produced one.

As far as HD, there usually is a dysplastic dog back there. Many of the old FC's were not xrayed. Super Powder produced 39 field champions, River Oaks Corky 28 and they were both dysplastic among others. A lot were bred multiple times before they were even xrayed. If there's a problem, you address it. This is like the PRA thread because it was claimed there were so many from field lines. Well, many of us are doing PRA, and there are no properly documented inherited PRA cases in field lines by testing, not just eye exams. There are many kinds of PRA that are not proven to be inherited.


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

I know of at least 3 dogs who had embolism's (burst blood vessels) leading to their passing. 

Different bloodlines also!


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Bridget Bodine said:


> Do you know that dogs can have a murmur that is missed by your regular vet? That dogs can have moderate TVD and be worked and competed and not ever show a symptom.


 My former vet was certified to do cardiac clearances so I would hope he could find that murmur along with my repro vets now that are doing the exam to rule your dog is healthy enough to breed, I would hope they can find a murmur. 

As long as I hear crickets as to your question, I rest my case.


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## Mike Sale (Feb 1, 2011)

My fist lab , not field bred had TVD. and so did her daughter. I knew nothing when I first started and bought her out of the newspaper. It was heartbreaking !


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Years ago the OFA heart echo was a more used test in field dogs, used to have most the dogs tested for it, not sure when-why it no longer became standard. If I were to guess it's about the time EIC was described and the test came out; as that was a definate seen issue in FT labs, in which a possible heart condition was suspected. I believe the school of thought is that heart issues, in performance dogs will be seen very early through normal work. I've only been aware of one young dog (4yrs) that died completely out of the blue, after running and being put up in his kennel, showing no symptoms of anything; which might've been a heart-attack, but who really knows. Other documented heart issues, I've only seen 2 in older field dogs (somewhat crossed to show stock) are usually described late in life 9yrs. + and they do show symptoms, labored breathing, slow to go etc etc. A field dog with a heart condition is usually not the best diagnosis, it's all but impossible to tell a performance lab that they have to be calm and take it easy. Of the 2 older labs I'm aware of they didn't survive long after the condition was confirmed. I believe heart to be one of those tests, such as PRA that if you've seen it in your lines you should test for it, if you've never seen it, the test goes a bit further down the list. We could test for everything under the sun, but some issues are highly probable in certain lines, other are not. Best to focus first on test that are highly likely to affect your dogs, then worry about all those that historically don't show up in your stock.


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## mountaindogs (Dec 13, 2010)

I am not as connected in the field trial lab world. But I did know a Brittany spaniel that was a hunt club guide dog from extremely well know FC titled dogs solidly for3 generations. This dog had an injury in the field one day while hunting which turned out to need an FHO repair. BUT the dog had a grade 3-4 heart mumur and the vet wouldn't do a major orthepedic surgery without an echo. The owner opted to euthanize and said he had been slowing down. Dog was 4. I also know two FC setters who had heart conditions diagnosed later around age 5. And lastly I know a GSP which had serious heart condition and didn't live long at all, from heart cleared parents, and 3 of 4 grandparents heart cleared.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Has anyone shown that asymptomatic dogs with equivocal TVD are more likely to produce affected dogs than dogs with no heart murmurs?

I don't think so.


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## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

I don't know a lot about TVD specifically. I recently became aware of at least 2 'field trial' pedigree dogs who have been diagnosed with TVD but honestly thought that workload would prevent TVD- dogs from living to a breeding age without being diagnosed. It's a little stressful to think about that not being the case. Are heart issues more widespread amongst field-bred dogs? Are most of them so minor that they are never detected and if that's the case, are they important to breeding considerations? Those are things I wonder now. Is ECHO the best or only way to determine if a dog is affected with TVD? 

I realize there is no DNA test but something I am curious about, perhaps from the show-crowd where this is more commonly tested for- if one parent does have TVD, what are the odds that there will be affected puppies? Not looking for a scientific answer but if anyone has personal experience to share that would be helpful.


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## Jiggy (Apr 14, 2003)

We have a lovely FC (National Finalist) in our camp that has pronounced ASD and TVD. NO heart murmur on auscultation and she is asymptomatic. We actually discovered it by accident doing a health work up when she had a fever at CSU. On 2nd opinion at Texas A&M, the cardiologist assured us it was indeed genetic and that she should never be bred. We spayed her. 
She's still asymptomatic, but we will continue to do yearly echos to keep on top of it and we are careful to never let her hunt a bird too big, especially on warmer days.


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## tracyw (Aug 28, 2008)

Bridget, Thank you for bringing to to our attention. I found a very good article and STUDY that I am sure you have seen. They are very close to finding the gene and a simple blood test to detect TVD. http://www.thelabradorclub.com/uploads/file/valvedysplasia(1).pdf

The article is very educational. Extract of the end of the article below:

*How Owners of Labrador Retrievers Can Help*
Kathy Wright, D.V.M., a veterinary cardiologist, is seeking more Labradors for her research into tricuspid valve
dysplasia (TVD), a congenital and sometimes fatal heart condition in dogs. If you have a Lab with TVD and are willing
to send a blood sample and pedigree, or better yet, have a complete cardiovascular examination performed on your dog
and their close relatives, contact Wright at:
Kathy N. Wright, D.V.M.
Director, Comparative Cardiovascular Catheterization Laboratory
Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center
Phone: (513) 636-4395
Fax: (513) 636-3952
E-mail: [email protected]
In addition, the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) at the University of Missouri-Columbia maintains a
registry of purebred dogs with congenital cardiac conditions. Through its huge database, OFA allows breeders to look
at the genetic health of whole families of dogs. For more information or an application, contact OFA at:
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
2300 E. Nifong Blvd.
Columbia, MO 65201
Phone: (573) 442-0418
Fax: (573) 875-5073
www.offa.org


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

For anyone interested in getting your dog tested, ECHOs are the gold standard, auscultation can and does miss a murmur that may be present. Here is a list of health clinics to get your dogs tested, you have to check each clinic you are interested in to see if they do echos. http://www.cavalierhealth.org/health_clinics.htm


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I just got notice of another very well bred pup 14 months old.... It is out there.....


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## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

We need to attack this as we did with EIC. When they were first starting to look for EIC, a person who knew I had 3 dogs a mother, daughter and granddaughter encouraged me to send them in to test. All 3 were eventually declared clear. But i really helps to get genetic material from related dogs, especially if there are some affected and some clear.
So I encourage everyone to take the lid off of this like we did with EIC and CNM, we have to pull our heads up out of the sand and stop ignoring this issue. Please look into the studies posted and see what each of us can do to promote the breed. Maybe we can encourage cardiologists to come up with a screening echo that will be affordable so we can more easily test. Once/If we get a DNA test, then maybe we will not need to screen with echos.


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## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

Dr Kathy Wright is one of the cardiologists I refer to and I just spoke to her office. They are no longer working on this. Apparently the study ran out of funding, that article is still linked on the LRC website but she is not aware of anyone currently working on this. 
If anyone knows of any research being done please. Also it cost $500 to get an echo, I am going to start talking to some cardiologists and see if we can get a cheaper screening test done. These dogs do not physical exams, blood pressure, and a full echo, they need to come up with a more cost effective why to screen.

I bit discouraged that all the work seems to have run out of steam.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Dr Meg Sleeper is still involved with a study, let me see if she wants info published


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## dreamer2385 (Jan 21, 2007)

I often wondered why breeders' of Labs and other sporting breeds didn't check hearts, especially after having confirmed SAS in my golden retrievers, in both field and show lines. A dog can life with bad hips , not the heart gives out suddenly in golden retrievers if severe. One well known golden breeder said the issue was bigger than we thought. I was one of the first in this area to go to Cornell for hearts. Wiped out my breeding program that day. I would , if I ever own a lab, take hearts' to be cleared. Just my humble opinion. I have also had goldens with confirmed SAS live to be over 10. Still learning after some many years, more than I care to think of.


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## Shelley (Nov 16, 2014)

I agree with clearing hearts by color doppler echo cardiogram being the Gold Standard for Labradors, conformation lines _and_ field lines. The cardiologist I use says that a full 20% of TVD is not caught with auscultation, but shows up during the echo, so an auscultation alone is not enough. 

By the way, my favorite local cardiologist does echo clinics at specialty shows and all breed shows, for a group rate. I just signed up one of my youngsters (over a year) for an echo in March for $195.00.


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

We have clinics a couple times of year in the mid Atlantic. I've never paid full price for an echo Nate. $200 at the most. It is frustrating about the research. On the show dog side their is a lot of denial. There are lines I wouldn't go near because of it. I don't care how good their work ethic or how good they look or how many champions they've produced. That is just my risk aversiveness to this one particular thing. 

The current thinking is still dominant with incomplete penetrance. It only takes one. And you can have echo clears and the gene pops up. To me, other than the possibility of sudden death, this disease is like elbow dysphasia. Very frustrating. And we have so many in the entire breed, field and show, with their head in the sand about a lot of things that it makes it hard to make educated decisions so you can avoid producing an affected. 

It's very frustrating. Yes, I know things like this can be self limited. You'll probably never have a dog get to FC/AFC with it so theoretically you can weed it out of the gene pool. That's not reality. Look at the WHOLE population of dogs being bred.

Anyway, I could go on. Breeding is not for the faint of heart. More often than not it is heartbreaking. It's the general puppy people, who get the majority of our puppies, that suffer.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

suepuff your five dogs on your site have four generation pedigrees with NO Field Labs (bench) so could you enlighten us about which FIELD lines you claim have these heart issues. Others have posted that it is a show issue. Please enlighten. Anybody else out there can help. NOT HT where there is mixed lines but FIELD Trial lines. Thank you.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

did you see the dog above, National finalist....pretty sure that was not a show bred dog. The 14 month old I mentioned was in training with a very prominent young dog trainer, nope not show bred. Two (really 3 including a curly coat) dogs in my training group , One a VERY well bred FT breeding, the other a son of that dog 3/4FT breeding.


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## Jiggy (Apr 14, 2003)

suepuff said:


> You'll probably never have a dog get to FC/AFC with it so theoretically you can weed it out of the gene pool.


FC-National Finalist-2 Amateur Wins. So I disagree with this statement.

There is no show or HT dogs in her pedigree.

Conclusion: I will suggest people echo their dogs before breeding. If this dog's heart condition wasn't discovered, purely by accident, then she most definitely would have been bred and then what?


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Okay Jiggy who is the dog?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

If this is such a big deal, knowing the lines would be helpful, not to keep it a big secret, just like in the bench lines not all are affected.

If you feel more comfortable sending a pm that is acceptable.


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## Jiggy (Apr 14, 2003)

I don't want to point fingers...who knows where she got it from, especially when the mode of inheritance is unclear. I just wanted to point out that it is out there in our field lines, even if only on a minuscule scale.
The part that concerns me is she has no murmur even when auscultated by cardiologists.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I am just researching, and I don't know the answer to this, but if the acquired damage to the Tricuspid valve by Infective Endocarditis can be differentialed from congenital or hereditary TVD on ECHO. A cardiologist would have to answer that question. If the individual with TVD produced it, there would be no question.


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

swliszka said:


> suepuff your five dogs on your site have four generation pedigrees with NO Field Labs (bench) so could you enlighten us about which FIELD lines you claim have these heart issues. Others have posted that it is a show issue. Please enlighten. Anybody else out there can help. NOT HT where there is mixed lines but FIELD Trial lines. Thank you.


Go back and read my post. I did not claim to have any knowledge of FIELD lines with TVD. I stated that both sides (field/bench) have their head in the sand about a lot of things health wise (not just TVD). Others on this forum have posted dogs and pedigrees of field lines with confirmed TVD. Now, if you want to to know bench pedigrees that's different. 

As to my comment on self limiting and not having TVD and getting to FC/AFC, that was a comment that others have said about the disease and why they feel it is a non issue. Marcy obviously has experience sadly. I don't have any answers except people need to be more open about things and open minded about things. I don't think that any aspect of our breed is immune from genetic disease. Whether it's field/bench or BYB.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Suepuff Post #32 ...."And we have so many in the entire breed, field and show, ..." Your words not mine. Have a good day.


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

"We have so many in the entire breed, field and show, with their head in the sand about a lot of things that it make"

Sorry, let me clarify. "So many in the breed". Was referring to the people, not dogs, with their head I'm the sand about problems in the breed. Regardless of whether they are field and show. I was not referring to "so many in the breed" as in dogs with TVD.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Please folks, at the very least, if you plan on breeding your dog , get them echo 'd . If you plan on doing high level training I strongly recommend echoing. Here is a list of health clinics where you can find heart echos available , the good news is most also have eye OFA's available too. $250 is a small thing compared to losing your dog, or producing one and selling it to a family who may lose their dog. 
http://www.cavalierhealth.org/health_clinics.htm


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

This is serious stuff....and is definitely present in some very popular current field lines with no show breeding in them. Denial and burying one's head in the sand won't make it go away. This has the potential to have a huge impact on the field side of the breed.


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## Ironwood (Sep 25, 2007)

In breeding is going to get the trial game in the bottleneck of seeing matching pairs of genes coming together which will leave the buyer holding the bag literally, the pup that will not be able to perform. And dream the buyer has will become a nightmare.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

I chair a health clinic annually in C. WA (rural area) and we have offered echo at $180. Last year the cardiologist urged me to think about doing the heart clinic every 2nd yr (vs our normal 3 yr) for good reason. Still, I couldn't convince as many as I'd have liked to do the echo over auscultation only and I'm sure most of that was due to the extra $140.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Ironwood said:


> In breeding is going to get the trial game in the bottleneck of seeing matching pairs of genes coming together which will leave the buyer holding the bag literally, the pup that will not be able to perform. And dream the buyer has will become a nightmare.


If you are talking about linebreeding on certain individuals, I agree. In some cases more is not better.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

ANYONE that has a confirmed TVD dog, they are looking for blood and pedigrees. PLEASE email me and I will send you the instructions and consent form [email protected]


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

From Dr Paula Henthorn, the geneticist that Dr Meg Sleeper is working with..... Tricuspid valve dysplasia (TVD) is a developmental anomaly of the tricuspid valve of the heart, seen in many dog breeds, that has clear evidence of a genetic predisposition in the Labrador Retriever. While inheritance patterns in this breed are not simple, the disease showed autosomal dominant inheritance with incomplete penetrance, in a previous mapping study in one pedigree of Labradors. In this study, a 4Mb region on dog chromosome 9 was associated with the occurrence of this disorder. The purpose of our study was to expand the study of this region, with the immediate goal of refining our knowledge of the location of the “TVD gene”. We identified additional useful polymorphic markers spanning the previously identified 4 Mb disease-associated interval for analysis on the original pedigree, and on a collection of TVD affected dogs and their relatives, and performed SNP chip hybridization and analysis on 194 dogs. Our studies in this larger population of Labrador Retrievers, not as closely related, did not identify the chromosome 9 region as associated with TVD. However, they have identified chromosomal regions that require additional examination. Consequently, we continue collecting DNA from additional TVD affected dogs and their relatives to enlarge our genome wide association study. As before these studies are aimed at the development of linked marker and mutation-based tests that can be used by breeders to reduce the incidence of this heart defect in the breed. Tricuspid valve dysplasia (TVD) has been documented in numerous dog breeds, including Boxers, German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, Great Danes, Great Pyrenees, Irish Setters, Mastiffs, Newfoundland, Old English Sheepdogs, Shih Tzu, and Weimaraners, and may have a genetic basis in some of these breeds. We expect to generate knowledge and reagents with which to examine TVD affected dogs of other breeds to determine if their disease is related to that found in Labrador Retrievers
A successful outcome from this research could improve the overall quality of life of dogs of many breeds, and further the knowledge of congenital heart disease in veterinary medicine. It may also inform human pediatric medicine, since Ebstein anomaly in children is the comparable disease in humans.
If anyone has cardiologist diagnosed TVD affected dog, that has not participated in their study and would like to donated blood and pedigree, please send an email to Dr Meg Sleeper, margaretmsleeper@ufl.edu


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)




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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Here is a better link http://www.offa.org/pdf/TVDOwnerConsentForm.pdf


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

There is a clinic May 6-7, 2016, near Salt Lake City offering cardio screenings by a veterinary cardiologist from Oregon, http://www.utahdobes.org/echoclinic2014webbie.htm.

There are other health clinics going on that weekend in conjunction with the Sussex Spaniel National Specialty http://www.2016sussexspaniels.com/schedule.html

I do not believe there is veterinary cardiologist located in Utah, but there are vets at Cottonwood Animal Hospital, Salt Lake City, that will do echos, and several vets here and there do auscultation.


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