# Master National Discussion is pulled.



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Dear RTF users,

Some lines were crossed. The thread is pulled.


Don't make it personal. Don't waste my time asking me to define this. Please. Debate the issue all you want, but don't make it personal.
If you want to ask someone who posts by a handle their name, feel free. But if they choose not to answer, let it go. Do not post real names and photos of folks who clearly choose to not be publicly identified.

It's the same old stuff guys and gals. I've not had to post this for a long, long time. Just treat others when you write, the way you'd like to be treated. Please.

Have a great weekend.

Thanks, Chris

P.S. feel free to discuss the MN topic more if you choose. Just adhere to the above. A few of your peers ruined that other thread for all. I'm not going to take the time to manually pick through and clean it up. It's gone.


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

Chris, I hadn't checked the thread you referenced since earlier this morning, so may not be aware of the offenses you referenced, but I do know it was getting a bit chippy and personal. Unfortunately, this is a pretty prominent issue at the moment and I thought the discussion and various solutions proposed were worthwhile. I know you don't have the time to sift through all the good posts to cull the bad, but I find it unfortunate that we lost the productive part of the discussion because of a few bad apples that would rather point fingers than focus on the issue and realistic possibilities to resolve it. I was hoping a proposal could be crafted from many of the ideas presented. If there's any way to restore part of the discussion, it would likely be appreciated by many.

Thanks,


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

The discussion was worth keeping, I have no stake in this but just because a couple of people had a disagreement does not mean the discussion should be terminated.

Punish the one who questions the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with him but not the entire community.


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## mostlygold (Aug 5, 2006)

I had been following this thread pretty closely but I too missed the nasty stuff. For the most part there were some good suggestions and discussions. I wish some people would get past the name calling so these kinds of discussions can happen. It is perfectly fine to disagree about things.

Dawn


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Dang I must have missed something? I thought there was a good discussion going on. 
I agree with Ed. Pull out whatever was wrong if you have to but the discussion was worth continuing.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

When posters go off the reservation and put the resource at risk, I don't think it should be Chris' responsibility to take time from his weekend to sift through the thread to eliminate the garbage.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Pretty sad if threads can get pulled because one person gets out of hand. Way to much valuable information to let that happen.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

We've had this conversation before.

When a thread has posts that are questionable, remove the posts. When a thread has a person or persons who act out, remove them for a set period ... time out of you will. I would suggest something like first a warning and then .... 2 days for the first subsequent offense, a week for the second subsequent offense, and a full 30 days for each subsequent offense. This is a well honored method of dealing with bad actors on bulletin boards and has worked very well for years in some really contentious settings.

There's no reason to, in effect, punish all because of the postings of one or a few.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't have a dog or cock in this fight, but I believe in my mind that there was a lot of discussions behind closed doors on that thread. IMO...PM Chris on your concerns. On a another subject, Thanks Chris for the RTF site. 
BJ


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## wheelhorse (Nov 13, 2005)

Why don't the powers that be acknowledge the fact that there are pros and ams in the hunt test game and split it like the field trials? 

Have an Open Master and an Am Master flight.

Do the same with the Master National: have the AM MN in the spring and the Open MN in the Fall.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

achiro said:


> Pretty sad if threads can get pulled because one person gets out of hand. Way to much valuable information to let that happen.


Exactly. Punish the offender not the masses


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## waycool (Jan 23, 2014)

I'll agree with pulling the entire thread. Censoring specific posts almost never works not to mention the amount of work required by Chris. Just as easy to start a new thread to document the useful parts. .02


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

If I was Chris , I'd say to myself... Self ,What should I do now? Go training ,spend time with the family or pump out the sewer ????? Since pumping out the sewer didn't seem like much fun , he opted for the other 2.... Now you know why the thread was deleted....Wading thru the Sh** isn't much fun.


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## Huff (Feb 11, 2008)

Why don't hunt tests adopt the same format as trials. Have an open master and amateur master. Each pass is worth a point and it takes 6 points to qualify for the master. Have an open master national and an amateur master national. That would cut the numbers for each master national as well as let both the pros and am have a venue that they can run. If an am wants to run the open they can and can qualify for the open master national. 

This is not my idea but I thought it was a good one. 

Russell


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## jeff evans (Jun 9, 2008)

wheelhorse said:


> Why don't the powers that be acknowledge the fact that there are pros and ams in the hunt test game and split it like the field trials?
> 
> *Have an Open Master and an Am Master flight.*
> 
> Do the same with the Master National: have the AM MN in the spring and the Open MN in the Fall.


I think the HT game is trying to limit entries not multiply stakes? And theres no competition so why have an am and an open, it's a standard correct? FTer regards


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

FinnLandR said:


> It might do some of you well to remember that Chris provides this resource to you for use free of charge, and ultimately, may run it as he sees fit. He could wake tomorrow and decide none of the back-seat driving and baby-sitting he continually endures here is worth it, and dump the whole thing.


Wow that statement is original.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Whether original or not, it is accurate.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

WTH Corey! Maybe you should start a page that you are the janitor for....


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## Richard Reese (Apr 26, 2006)

Chris has the right to remove any threat, in his opinion needs removed. It is his game, his rules. Violate his rules and he will clean house. 

As for the thread. I still do not understand the passion against pros running hunt test.

If you want to compete, run field trials. If you want to test your dogs abilities run hunt test. Pro or Am is irrelevant. I ran hunt test as an amateur and I have run hunt test as a pro. I have run qualifying's as as amateur and I have run qualifying's as a pro. All are fun. 

This whole amateur/pro problem at hunt test is really over hyped, my opinion. Since Hunt Tests are testing you and your dogs abilities against the standard why do you care if a pro runs before you or after you. I have had Amateurs run before me that smoked a test. I applauded their performance and moved to the line. The judges forgot their work once they moved off the line and I moved on the line. Standard not competing.

Have a blessed day

Richard


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

All this talk about having an Open and and Amateur.... just look at another thread and read about how its hard to get enough volunteers to work at a test. I can just see ALL the volunteers running into work an Open test....


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Russ, Ed, Corey, Eric,

I'm not going to try to change any of your opinions. You are entitled to them. 

I think that most if not all of you would view this differently if you were in my shoes.

To all:

The reason I made this thread, and the reason I left the "moved" notation on the board was to make it publicly clear that I removed the thread and why. I also made it clear how users can conduct themselves so that this does not happen again. 

Every one of us has the ability to help self-regulate this culture and keep it on track. We knowingly conduct ourselves in a way that retains the value of the discussion and eliminates the threat against this resource, we keep things moving ahead.

I put plenty of time into this site as it is. I see no clean way to hand pick the "offensive" stuff, without creating even more complaining. I've done it before in the past and had limited success. I've also taken the position of deleting every post after a certain point in time. That has also lead to even more hard feelings. I've found it is best to:

A) have the offending party delete or edit. OR

B) remove the entire thread.

You are all welcome to resume discussion of the topic. Keep it dirty side down and clean side up...please.

I'm confident that all who are passionate and with good ideas and solutions will understand the logic and will take the time to implement their ideas in ways that can create positive change. Frankly, anybody who wants to say that the solution was on an RTF discussion, but it is lost forever because Chris pulled the post, is being unrealistic.

I hope you all enjoy your Sunday and have a productive new week.

Chris

Oh, we also have one more former RTF user now on the "read only" list.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Chris, I concur that deleting the thread was the most prudent decision for you. I did not think that one person crossing the line of civility was that bad but I'm just a guy hanging out in the peanut gallery.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

EdA said:


> Chris, I concur that deleting the thread was the most prudent decision for you. I did not think that one person crossing the line of civility was that bad but I'm just a guy hanging out in the peanut gallery.


Thanks Ed, you'd see it quite differently if you were here in the janitor's closet. I didn't pull it because of how "mean" or "bad" the specific writing on the thread was. I pulled it because of some perceived threats and the impacts of those threats on my calendar and pocket. 

Not sure if that makes sense. I don't have the time to put my schedule and cashflow at risk so that someone else can treat folks on on the internet hatefully. 

Corey should remember too. Years ago we had another person making some threats due to things he had written. It was out of that live dialogue that a personal friendship developed. 

Chris


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Are we talking about the thread relating to hunt tests filling up too fast?? I must have missed the posts that were offensive.

Regarding the suggestions on this thread to try an Open Master and an Amateur Master, how would that solve anything? Don't most of the clubs that limit entries do so because they don't have the manpower to hold multiple stakes?

JS


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## Labs R Us (Jun 25, 2010)

Chris, thanks for all you do for RTF. I, as well as others, appreciate it. 

Regarding limited entries in Masters, I hope someone comes up with a solution before I get to that point with my dog ... but it'll be a while.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Thanks Ed, you'd see it quite differently if you were here in the janitor's closet. I didn't pull it because of how "mean" or "bad" the specific writing on the thread was. I pulled it because of some perceived threats and the impacts of those threats on my calendar and pocket.
> 
> Not sure if that makes sense. I don't have the time to put my schedule and cashflow at risk so that someone else can treat folks on on the internet hatefully.
> 
> ...


Get all that, but it is had to start again after losing a multi page thread with much useful information.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Thanks Ed, you'd see it quite differently if you were here in the janitor's closet. I didn't pull it because of how "mean" or "bad" the specific writing on the thread was. I pulled it because of some perceived threats and the impacts of those threats on my calendar and pocket.
> 
> Not sure if that makes sense. I don't have the time to put my schedule and cashflow at risk so that someone else can treat folks on on the internet hatefully. Chris


Thanks for the clarification, you need not feel obligated to explain your actions. From your perspective you made the right call!!


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> Get all that, but it is had to start again after losing a multi page thread with much useful information.


Nobody cured cancer. The good ideas can be reposted by those with the passion and the ideas.


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## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

Everyone keeps talking about manpower. I don't perceive that as the problem at all. Most tests that I have been to pay bird boys or get them free in many instances. I have seen local FFA, boy scout troops, prison trustees and many other forms of getting enough people to run a test. I believe that where the problem lies is getting enough grounds to hold more stakes. IMO even if every single person at the test volunteered their time we still wouldn't solve the problem.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Russ, Ed, Corey, Eric,
> 
> I'm not going to try to change any of your opinions. You are entitled to them.
> 
> ...


Chris great choice and use of words.Pretty simple! Thanks!


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Nobody cured cancer. The good ideas can be reposted by those with the passion and the ideas.


Not really. You lose the passion. It's kind of like you and your honey getting romantic one night and having one of the kids bust in. That moment is gone. You may get back to business, but it's not the same because now your sure that door is going to swing open again. You lost that loving feeling. 

Your board your your the one who has to act when some pansy ass threatens to sue you. Your call. As I have said for many years and you are well aware I don't agree with pulling threads but little consequences for me.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> Not really. You lose the passion. It's kind of like you and your honey getting romantic one night and having one of the kids bust in. That moment is gone. You may get back to business, but it's not the same because now your sure that door is going to swing open again. You lost that loving feeling.
> 
> Your board your your the one who has to act when some pansy ass threatens to sue you. Your call. As I have said for many years and you are well aware I don't agree with pulling threads but little consequences for me.


It's easy to tell someone to accept risks when you don't have to shoulder the consequences of that risk, but they do.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Ted Shih said:


> It's easy to tell someone to accept risks when you don't have to shoulder the consequences of that risk, but they do.


Ted I don't see anything in that statement telling anyone to accept risk. In fact just the opposite, I clearly say that it's his board and he is the one who has to act when some pansy ass threatens him and that it is his call.
That doesn't change the fact that I don't like it when a hot topic gets pulled. What's the problem with that?


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Corey,

Your first paragraph about losing the passion is also applicable for me with running this resource.

Frankly, I sometimes feel like folks enjoy sniping at me and what I do...sometimes here, sometimes in their own little groups. I don't expect everybody to like me. I don't expect everybody to agree with me.

But I tend to lose some passion about running this thing sometimes when the sniping comes up. For the most part, I've dealt with those individuals privately - frequently over the phone. Many times, it results in some cooperation. Not always.

But I get it. 

Hey, it comes with the territory. But this weekend is the first bare ground we've seen in weeks. And rather than training dogs, I've found myself spending more time on here - not for fun reasons - than I'd like. 

Headed out the door now, in fact. 

Chris


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

I certainly hope that anyone that has ever threatened you with legal issues has lost their ability to read and post on this forum. Like Ed, it's your park, I just like to play on the merry go round. It's just that I am not a fan of just taking the swing set away when the bully is shoving the good kids off of it.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

I didn't take away a piece of playground equipment. I erased the chalk on the asphalt for the hopscotch game.

Step up and draw some new squares! 

There's abundant bare pavement with no traffic. It's a clean slate.

And yes, To quote a very good friend: "Why is it that the biggest loudmouths post under a handle only?"

I concur with that. I agree there are valid reasons for folks to want to conceal their identity. For those folks, why they choose to be so controversial and outspoken escapes me. I guess we don't all have the same values and levels of integrity.

Chris


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

when you take to posting on the internet, you do so a your own peril. If people think they are truely anonymous, they are only kidding themselves. It doesn't take much to figure out who they are. To cry foul is ludicrous. 

Some of us have stepped up and told Chris in the past that he would be defended pro bono ...


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## GaryJ (Jan 1, 2013)

I find this forum to be a privilege. I am glad it exists and for the ability to participate on it. Thank you!


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

Hey Chris!

I have no dog in this fight a-tall, but I think it's about time you pulled this one too. We all see where this is headed.



HPL


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

eda said:


> the discussion was worth keeping, i have no stake in this but just because a couple of people had a disagreement does not mean the discussion should be terminated.
> 
> Punish the one who questions the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with him but not the entire community.


 I agree , those that get ugly put themselves out there as just that.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

[QUOTE Some of us have stepped up and told Chris in the past that he would be defended pro bono ...][/QUOTE]

And so he should be! All Chris is asking for is respect for one another's comments and to be treated accordingly. If you don't like the other person's comment; agree to disagree and leave it at that. We have some RTFers that we could all learn so much from rather than succumbing to the nonsense!IMO


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I don't know what the issues were that caused Chris to pull the thread. But I have faith in his judgement.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

I'm sure Chris would love to be able to do less moderating, but the problem is, people get their little feelings hurt entirely too easily if someone disagrees, even if it's done in a respectful manner, and are far too quick to press the triangle or go sniveling to a moderator...over something said on the internet! 

People need to be respectful and NOT go tattling over hurt feelings, that's what the PM feature is for. Don't ask a question you don't want an answer to, don't waste Chris's time with every little real or imagined slight; take it up with the person who offended you or just shut up and hide for a few days or weeks. I kind of miss the good ole days of self moderation and the Bait-O-Lympics. Medalists got a bronze for a complaint to the moderators, silver for an "I'll SUE YOU!" (rallying cry of white trash everywhere) and the master baiter got a gold medal for a death threat. LOL. Dogs on the internet, who'd've thought they'd drive people to tattling like school girls or threatening to sue like white trash?


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Bridget Bodine said:


> WTH Corey! Maybe you should start a page that you are the janitor for....


who died and left you in charge. My opinions are just that. If you don't like em why don't you go start your own forum and I promise to stay away.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

most certainly not in charge but I do appreciate what the janitor does on THIS forum and RESPECT his right to do so


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Corey,
> 
> Frankly, I sometimes feel like folks enjoy sniping at me and what I do...sometimes here, sometimes in their own little groups. I don't expect everybody to like me. I don't expect everybody to agree with me.
> 
> Chris


But I love ya buddy. I don't agree with you always but the I don't agree with myself sometimes. I don't snipe at you anymore than I do anyone, hell you are actually way down the list of people I screw with. If I meant anything by it you would know it.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Bridget Bodine said:


> most certainly not in charge but I do appreciate what the janitor does on THIS forum and RESPECT his right to do so



Good, of, now pipe down


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Hey teddy, why did you delete your post before I had the chance to respond? I guess your grown up side got the better of you?


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> Hey teddy, why did you delete your post before I had the chance to respond? I guess your grown up side got the better of you?


​Your last few posts have told everyone who is grown up around here.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Ted Shih said:


> ​Your last few posts have told everyone who is grown up around here.


good one ted. 
Why not repost your deleted post?


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> good one ted.
> Why not repost your deleted post?



Because I have no desire to slop in the mud with you.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

But you made the mud with your post.
you are as usual talking out both sides of your mouth.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Wow 3000 views 1st 24hrs. Almost like a national thread.
.
Anyway, maybe time to get in the truck and head out, ya all been dropped.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Breck said:


> Wow 3000 views 1st 24hrs. Almost like a national thread.
> .
> Anyway, maybe time to get in the truck and head out, ya all been dropped.


Thanks. Good idea. Not worth the brain damage.


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## gdluck (May 27, 2005)

It's a shame it got pulled before I could see it. It's the only reason I come here anymore, well that and the classifieds. I get my dose of adults, some of them educated I assume, squabbling like infants over DOGS. I read until I become saddened then I go. You can't make this stuff up and no reality show comes close.

Yes, I am posting under an alias because this is the internet and I don't need nor want my name out there anymore than it already is. If however I meet some of you I will stand behind anything I've written so long ago and happily tell you what I think of you face to face.

I do feel sorry for Chris.....Do you think that when he was a kid he dreamed of running a nursery school when he grew up?


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## mostlygold (Aug 5, 2006)

Darn. I thought this thread would rehash some of the good ideas that were introduced in the last one. Most of the comments on this thread should have been PM to one another. Sorry you have to deal with garbage Chris. 

Perhaps we can start a new thread where only ideas can be put forth. Sarcasm and insults can be left in your respective heads or your can PM them to each other.

Dawn


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

As the moderator of another forum www.BarrelHorseWorld.com) I have more sympathy for the forum moderators than most, and appreciate that this is a well moderated forum

you guys are funny... And every bit as sassy as a bunch of barrel racers this time of year -who are tired of winter and itching to run their horses


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

mostlygold said:


> Darn. I thought this thread would rehash some of the good ideas that were introduced in the last one. Most of the comments on this thread should have been PM to one another. Sorry you have to deal with garbage Chris.
> 
> Perhaps we can start a new thread where only ideas can be put forth. Sarcasm and insults can be left in your respective heads or your can PM them to each other.
> 
> Dawn


Already a couple running, but not as fun.


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## Brad C (May 7, 2012)

Chris, thank you for this resource. I was on the "waterdog" forums a long time ago and learned invaluable info there. That forum has quieted down so I look around on here now and am still learning. People need to realize that everyone has an opinion, whether or not it disagrees with there's is irrelevant. We can all learn from others and be civil towards each other. If you want to piss and moan at each other do it in PM's or meet up and do it in person. Maybe it could be a UFC/RTF pay per view!


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

I often wonder just how much certain people must drink before (and while) they are sitting at their keyboard.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Corey's disposition has definitely not benefitted from his first winter spent in New England. ;-)


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

I am stone cold sober. Maybe that's the problem.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

EdA said:


> Corey's disposition has definitely not benefitted from his first winter spent in New England. ;-)


Or maybe that's the problem.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> I am stone cold sober. Maybe that's the problem.


Well get started and we'll let you know.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Don Julio is waiting, but dinner first.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Wow I keep missing everything out training. From the looks of it more should be

/Paul


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Okay guys, CUT IT OUT! You are giving me brain damage... 

FOM
RTF Moderator


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I'll get involved,, what he heck!

I bet NONE of you have dogs that will "sit" worth a F$#@!!!



Gotrain!

Gooser


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

WhenI was a Juvenile in school,, and would do or say less that desirable things,, Sister Marcella use to banish me to an empty room with a chair, and I would have to sit in there with a "Dunce: cap on//

Maybe Chris could start a room,, and folks names would be posted there.. and they dont get tocome out, till they eat a bar a soap!!

Gooser would check in on Ya now and then, and sing you a Nity Nite song.


Gooser

P.S.
itr eally sucks when Ya wanna run yer mouth,, and there's noby around to listen


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm happy to say I missed this Custer fluck as well! Saturday went to the ARC and LRCA joint meeting, and training today in gorgeous NM lands with a great group of people. God it feels good! Carry on and get the issue settled before I have to worry about Master.


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## J Hoggatt (Jun 16, 2004)

NOTE: Disclaimer - nothing personal / nothing pointed to anyone - just thought it was funny


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I've found it is best to:
> 
> A) have the offending party delete or edit. OR



when my posts cause folk to threaten chris with law suits, a$$ kickins and worse i always delete my posts and issue public apology to the offended...........one time i was even sincere!;-)

thanks chris!


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Down East Labs 217 said:


> As for the thread. I still do not understand the passion against pros running hunt test.
> 
> If you want to compete, run field trials. If you want to test your dogs abilities run hunt test. Pro or Am is irrelevant. I ran hunt test as an amateur and I have run hunt test as a pro. I have run qualifying's as as amateur and I have run qualifying's as a pro. All are fun.
> 
> ...


Richard, I believe you misunderstand the issue. There isn't any passion against pros running Hunt Tests.
The passion comes from the fact that pros are filling up most if not all of the spots available; thereby denying tha Amateur even a chance to enter and run. I could care less if I run a Master test with 120 dogs and all of them are Am trained and run or if all but mine are Pro trained. I just want a fair chance for everyone to get dogs entered. 

Of all the proposals put forth I think the one from Ted Shih: whereby everybody can initially enter up to 5 dogs. Then after a certain time where everyone has had time to get up to 5 dogs entered, it would open back up to enter additional dogs, has the most merit

At our clubs last Hunt Test the entry was limited to 60 dogs. It filled up in less than an hour and before I was even aware it was open for entries. Two Pros had 50 dogs entered. I believe there were only three Ams who got entered
I, along with everyone else who was on the Hunt Test Committee and who worked the trial, was not able to enter and run our own dogs. In your own words you said "ALL ARE FUN" The passion comes from the new rules serving to deny us even the chance to enter and have that fun

In essence we all got to spend our Memorial day weekend being unpaid workers. We love the games and know that it entails a lot of work. However the love of the game comes from training and running our dogs; not from being an unpaid {and Unthanked} volunteer to put on a test so a couple of pros can run their dogs and make a living. 

Speaking for myself only, but that one lesson is all I need. I will never be on a Hunt Test Committee and serve as free help again {without an opportunity to run dogs} again until an equitable solution is found. The club at present does not have a Hunt Test scheduled for this year.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

mjh345 -

Excellent synopsis of the situation. The pros and amateurs have never been adversaries but when situations such as you describe occur, that is not far behind. I think many folks in your situation would have simply refused to show up to be on a committee that was merely servants of the pro trainers. 

As Ted pointed out to me, there's noting magical about the number 5. It was merely the number that he and Ed had suggested for their scheme to limit entries into field trials for much the same reason. Whether the number is 1 or 5 or 10, it's clear that something needs to be done ... and soon. If not, more and more folks will see the hunt test game as you expressed, a way for pros to make money rather than as a sport for all to enjoy.

It strikes me that a page could be taken from the field trial scheme. Suppose that if a test is going to be a limited entry of 60, only 50% of the entries could be already titled dogs until the last day of entries. Up until the last day, the split would be 50-50 and the overload would go to a wait list. On the last day, the wait list would be cleared and any remaining entries could go on the basis of first come, first served. If a test is not a limited entry, then this 50-50 rule is off.

Or, alternatively, the MN could just be dropped as that seems to be the driving issue. Obviously that won't happen but if that really is the issue, some approach needs to be taken that will solve that, not the issue of pro or am handlers.


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