# I Can't Believe It - Puppies here



## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Just got home from the vet and my girl Red Squads Bad Girlfriend "Tinker" is pregnant with pups.
How can this be? I came home from work on March 30th and Tinker was tied with Red Squads Fifty Caliber "Sniper.
My FC Reese was in full blown heat in the house in a kennell getting ready to do a frozen AI breeding April 3rd.
Sniper, was nuts of course and chasing all the girls around the yard. I had been checking Tinker and no blood spots and
she was not due to come into heat until last week. I really did not think much of it. Jason Baker, my pro, said she is full
of Sniper puppies and I'm like bs no way, well, he was right.
So now I have two litters of puppies coming at the end of this month. 
How in the hell did this happen? Did Reese bring Tinker in? 
Might be a nice line breeding on Code Blue by coincidence, oh well...


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

What part of this don't you understand?


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

ErinsEdge said:


> What part of this don't you understand?[/QUOTE
> 
> Nancy, thanks for answering my question with a question, no need to be a smart a$$


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm pretty sure he gets it. Pretty sure it's not the first "oops" breeding between two well bred dogs. Pretty darn sure Gregg's gonna have his HANDS FULL, and pretty sure this "mistake" could produce some dayum NICE BABIES!!!


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## Lab4me (Sep 25, 2009)

I just looked at their pedigrees. I agree with David. You could have some very nice puppies. Good luck and pm me when pups are born. I just might be interested.
Lab4Me


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Lesson learned ,I hope?A wise man once told me "the definition of a fool is a person who makes the same mistake twice!!!....Jim


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

Hahahaha. Tink Tink and 'Niper. I've got 17$ that says they'll need a "firm hand and a level head".


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

God forbid anyone but the professional puppy peddlers ... use the Internet to hock a few puppies with clearances, pedigrees and performance records that make sense. 

This post was made in reference to a post by Nancy / erins edge which is quoted below by polonaise. She has since deleted it- thankfully it's saved for posterity. Some people...
Gerry Balboni.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

ErinsEdge said:


> I mean REALLY? You don't know how it happened when you leave them all out together? Rule 1: females come in heat on a schedule until they don't. Never trust the calendar. Rule 2: Multiple females pull others in heat. Rule 3: if you are expecting females in heat the male will figure it out more accurately than you will so don't leave him with bitches, much less all day. Some females are very clean, and some have a silent heat, *but my guess is the post was about getting the word out.*


Shock /horror. You mean You guys don't advertise your wares on here ?. ..in subtle posts .
Funny enough , I have multiple breeds both male and female, ..? 
Leave them alone and that's the factor for sure !


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## BAYDOG (May 30, 2009)

Yes, to answer your question, two bitches in the kennel/home , if one comes in, it can bring the other in.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

BAYDOG said:


> Yes, to answer your question, two bitches in the kennel/home , if one comes in, it can bring the other in.


Really????Jim


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

jd6400 said:


> Really????Jim


Actually, yes it can. It's called the "dormitory effect", since the same thing can happen with women housed together. Cycles can sync up.


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Sharon Potter said:


> Actually, yes it can. It's called the "dormitory effect", since the same thing can happen with women housed together. Cycles can sync up.


I new it could happen if the bitches were within a week or two, but 2 months early? I never heard of that, now I know anything is possible!!!


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> This post was made in reference to a post by Nancy / erins edge which is quoted below by polonaise. She has since deleted it- thankfully it's saved for posterity. Some people...
> Gerry Balboni.


Yes, thank you Polmaise for highlighting it, and as usual, snarking at everything posted on RTF. Cheers.

Thank goodness there were no EIC carrier dogs bred if they are loose all the time. If there were multiple studs loose though, she could have been bred by one, two, or all of them multiple times since you were not home. You will have to DNA each pup in that litter.

I deleted it because there is no point in disseminating any information, reproductive or otherwise on RTF because it is unappreciated.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Sharon Potter said:


> Actually, yes it can. It's called the "dormitory effect", since the same thing can happen with women housed together. Cycles can sync up.


I was actually being a smart assGuy that works for me constantly brings his female hounds over when I have one in heat.....I was having fun with Gregg as I'm sure others were....Good luck with pups Gregg!!!Jim


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

Yes. Well, people will see your quote in polmaise's post and recognize that it wasn't your dissemination of useful information I was referencing. It speaks for itself. 

If your interest was Gregg's education, you would have communicated your point in manner which left it unclouded by your attitude problem. Don't you have like 5-7 litters of puppies and websight to maintain? I can understand how someone dropping hints that they have well bred pups coming that they hasn't planned on, migh threaten your business model and as such might set you off- but if you really want to spread the knowledge you appraise as so valuable, don't disparage your intended student. 


Additionally, most people who are actually smart enough to learn don't go to a public internet forum to do so. At least not for long. THere are plenty of valid sources of information online- truly in my palm I am holding the entire body of human knowledge, even as I type this - and as such, its up to the discerning student to wade through it all- and it becomes apparent quickly that the amount of information available on public forums, is of little value, as it is difficult and time consuming to sort through, very in efficient at best, completely misleading at worst. 


So, truly I see your side, there is no sense tossing pearls into a sea of swine manure. These forums are however pretty good places for entertainment, and killing time, somewhat like tv. It's not impossible to learn anything here,
Or on tv, it's just that it's more of a fringe benefit. If a public internet forum is where one goes for there learnings, one will end up with a similar education to what one will recieve in a pub, saloon, or tavern. 


You are trying to disseminate what you consider high value information in what you admit is a low value market. there are no million dollar answers to 25cent questions.


Gerry Balboni


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Ask the Janitor about me


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

You've spoken for yourself. Just as we all do

G

*also all this talk of education and dissemination of information has really struck a chord. Looking back over my life I am struck by how all the great instructors in my life we uniformly able to build a raport with there students and tailor their message to the audience. I also had numerous instructors who werent as gifted


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

jhnnythndr said:


> Yes. Well, people will see your quote in polmaise's post and recognize that it wasn't your dissemination of useful information I was referencing. It speaks for itself.
> 
> If your interest was Gregg's education, you would have communicated your point in manner which left it unclouded by your attitude problem. Don't you have like 5-7 litters of puppies and websight to maintain? I can understand how someone dropping hints that they have well bred pups coming that they hasn't planned on, migh threaten your business model and as such might set you off- but if you really want to spread the knowledge you appraise as so valuable, don't disparage your intended student.
> 
> ...


Gerry, do you not see yourself with an attitude problem? I feel bad for Chris Atkinson when I see posts like yours, essentially disparaging this forum. 

Me, personally, I have gotten a lot of help from folks on the Retriever Training Forum; I really appreciate this resource. So thanks, Chris!


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

Renee (Erinsedge)said that there is no point to posting useful information here, I was addressing that point of view. 


RTF and public forums in gerneral are tremendously useful, the exchange of ideas , and round table discussion is very helpful when you are trying to gain perspective on something, but you know as well as i do that its not a proper classroom, and as such it's more difficult
To clearly communicate a point, and as such care should be taken to tailor the message for purpose and the audience.

Gbalboni


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## Scott Krueger (Jan 25, 2008)

congrats..???? i guess...$$$$$$$$



jhnnythndr said:


> Renee (Erinsedge)said that there is no point to posting useful information here, I was addressing that point of view.
> 
> 
> RTF and public forums in gerneral are tremendously useful, the exchange of ideas , and round table discussion is very helpful when you are trying to gain perspective on something, but you know as well as i do that its not a proper classroom, and as such it's more difficult
> ...


it's a shame that most people cant/dont know how to take a joke and take this site so seriously 100% of the time as i have learned from numerous admin pm's.....


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Too many bitches in heat at the same time, that is a problem for all of us.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

ErinsEdge said:


> What part of this don't you understand?


I was wondering the same thing... it only happens one way after all  

Good luck with the pups - that's a good reason not to have incompatible dogs running around... says the owner of a BLF and a Chessie boy (sometimes I wonder what I was thinking).


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

DarrinGreene said:


> I was wondering the same thing... it only happens one way after all
> 
> Good luck with the pups - that's a good reason not to have incompatible dogs running around... says the owner of a BLF and a Chessie boy (sometimes I wonder what I was thinking).


Well Darrin, first of all they are not incompatible, both very well bred labs.
Secondly, Tinker, was two months from her usually reliable cycle. 
I am not complaining at all, lots of interest in the litter already.
Just bizarre to me that she could come in 2 months early, no spotting, not swoolen and Sniper knew exactly when to hit it;-)
I spent a lot of money testing Reese, frozen semen and surgical AI and this one is almost free in the back yard...


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Gregg without out a visual on the breeding , I would recommend doing DNA on pups. See pm from me


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Bridget Bodine said:


> Gregg without out a visual on the breeding , I would recommend doing DNA on pups. See pm from me


There was a visual. He caught them in the act.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

ahh over read that part ! Phew!


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

I had a bitch that cycled once a year, at about 10 months. She was crated at night next to a 6-month cycle girl for over a year. Pulled my once-a-year girl in 4 months early the first time and they came in the same day six months later.

Girls are a challenge!

Meredith


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

captainjack said:


> There was a visual. He caught them in the act.



Unless there was a second male on site that could have also bred her?


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

JusticeDog said:


> Unless there was a second male on site that could have also bred her?


Only one male on property.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

gregg is first rate dog owner and a good friend. all his pups/dogs get a wonderful opportunity for field trial success. i am proud he has one of my pups in training.

he made a miscalculation that had an obviously positive result. we should all be so lucky! best of luck with BOTH your upcoming litters gregg! passing the word! 

john mccallie


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

I put Gregg on Tinker, wanted that pup myself, but too many dogs and not enough dollars. 

That chick can flat out mark!


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

golfandhunter said:


> Well Darrin, first of all they are not incompatible, both very well bred labs.
> Secondly, Tinker, was two months from her usually reliable cycle.
> I am not complaining at all, lots of interest in the litter already.
> Just bizarre to me that she could come in 2 months early, no spotting, not swoolen and Sniper knew exactly when to hit it;-)
> I spent a lot of money testing Reese, frozen semen and surgical AI and this one is almost free in the back yard...


Just to make sure you didn't read that wrong - I wasn't being critical Gregg. I should have either bought another BLF or a compatible male for my group. I love Angus (my chessie boy) and wouldn't trade him for the world but the risk of something like this happening gives me pause every day. It would be nice to have the only resulting issue be a really nice litter of puppies to raise! 

Good luck!


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## jtfreeman (Jan 6, 2009)

Gregg,

Timing may be a little off but that is a nice breeding.

I've thrown many a bird for both these dogs. I'll repeat here what I regularly say over the two-way radio. "That's a nice dog, Gregg."


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

DarrinGreene said:


> Just to make sure you didn't read that wrong - I wasn't being critical Gregg. I should have either bought another BLF or a compatible male for my group. I love Angus (my chessie boy) and wouldn't trade him for the world but the risk of something like this happening gives me pause every day. It would be nice to have the only resulting issue be a really nice litter of puppies to raise!
> 
> Good luck!


No problem Darrin, I have a Stinger X Lean Mac daughter, puppy named Angus, 13 months old on Jason Bakers truck, very promising so far.
I am fortunate that if any of my pack get tied by accident it should not be a problem. They are all well bred and all clear on everything.
Not saying I want this to ever happen again.


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## dorkweed (Apr 14, 2009)

Less time on the golf course maybe??!!:bday:


Golf is just another 4 letter word you know!!!

Former 8 handicap regards!!


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

dorkweed said:


> Less time on the golf course maybe??!!:bday:
> 
> 
> Golf is just another 4 letter word you know!!!
> ...


Hell, I quit playing golf because of these hounds. I used to be scratch.
Na it's work and addiction to these dog games, maybe I should change my RTF handle to Used to golf and hunt a lot!!!


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Ok, both Reese and Tinker are with their whelping mothers, thank the Lord!!!!
Both are due around Memorial Day, maybe they have pups in honor of our veterans, like my great friend JohnnyThunder (Gerry Balboni)
This man is the reason we live the lives we lead everyday. Make no mistake the sacrifice these MEN make is incredible, Thank you Gerry


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

*Puppies Are Here*

Sniper X Tinker puppies are here, Tinker had 9 black pups in a 12 hour labor period, 5 males 4 females.

I am glad I had her in the capable hands of Laurie Thompson, to do the all night whelping and raising the litter.


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## mizzippi jb (Jan 22, 2014)

Congrats Gregg. Btw I need to get you number. I called glen last night but he forgot to call me back until the training session was over haha.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

That's awesome. One more to go!!!


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

mizzippi jb said:


> Congrats Gregg. Btw I need to get you number. I called glen last night but he forgot to call me back until the training session was over haha.


Wow, she had the tenth puppy this afternoon, a little girl, that makes 5 boys and five girls, unreal!!!!!

Jim, my number is 404-580-6268

email [email protected]


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## mizzippi jb (Jan 22, 2014)

David Maddox said:


> That's awesome. One more to go!!!


Lol....I know what you really meant (Reese) but after reading gregg's post it sounds like you knew she was gonna spit out another pup.


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## Paul Frey (Jun 15, 2012)

Congrats, My litter came on 5/26/2016. 6 males, 2 females. ours started at 1:30 AM and didn't end until 9:30 AM. It's been ALOT of work, but well worth it. (Somewhere in that litter is my next project).


golfandhunter said:


> Sniper X Tinker puppies are here, Tinker had 9 black pups in a 12 hour labor period, 5 males 4 females.
> 
> I am glad I had her in the capable hands of Laurie Thompson, to do the all night whelping and raising the litter.


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Paul Frey said:


> Congrats, My litter came on 5/26/2016. 6 males, 2 females. ours started at 1:30 AM and didn't end until 9:30 AM. It's been ALOT of work, but well worth it. (Somewhere in that litter is my next project).


Congrats on your litter Paul, Tinker had a tenth puppy(female) 8 hours after her 12 hour labor for the first nine pups.
Thank the Lord I had her with Laurie, I would have been totally lost trying to do this myself.


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## Paul Frey (Jun 15, 2012)

Thank You golfandhunter. Yes it was a long time. After the 7th I though it was over. Went upstairs to make myself some breakfast. Sat outside on the porch and ate and then thought I would check on the pups. Looked in the whelping box and thought" man that one pup looks awfully wet". I picked it up and it took me a few seconds to realize it wasn't wearing a puppy ID collar. So just when you think you are done, SURPRISE!!! My X-rays only showed 6-7 pups clearly. The others must have been hidden


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

I just received pictures of the pups and Laurie informed me of 3 pups with crooked tails of varying degrees at the very end of the tails.
I sent the pics to Captainjack, hopefully he can post them here because I'm a luddite.
My question is, will the tails straighten out?

Thanks for any and all comments and experiences


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

golfandhunter said:


> I just received pictures of the pups and Laurie informed me of 3 pups with crooked tails of varying degrees at the very end of the tails.
> I sent the pics to Captainjack, hopefully he can post them here because I'm a luddite.
> My question is, will the tails straighten out?
> 
> Thanks for any and all comments and experiences


Glen can't post pictures either, is anyone willing to let me email the pics and you could post please


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## mrman (Feb 12, 2016)




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## mrman (Feb 12, 2016)




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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks for posting Mac, you young people are frickin smart!!!

So whats up with these tails please?


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## mrman (Feb 12, 2016)

If you'd prefer them in a new post concerning the tails I can make that work as well. I hope you get some answers!!


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

golfandhunter said:


> Thanks for posting Mac, you young people are frickin smart!!!
> 
> So whats up with these tails please?


Please take a look at these tails and offer some opinions, Thanks in advance


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

Mine came to me at 7 weeks with with a slightly crooked tail. Small little kink 1" from the end. Almost 4 years later it is still there.


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## BrettG (Apr 4, 2005)

I had a female that I bred twice to a nice male out of watermarks the boss. One litter had a pup with a slight knot on the end of his tail and the second litter had one pup with a z shaped tail and one with the knot on the tail. No idea cause but they turned out to be nice dogs.


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

BrettG said:


> I had a female that I bred twice to a nice male out of watermarks the boss. One litter had a pup with a slight knot on the end of his tail and the second litter had one pup with a z shaped tail and one with the knot on the tail. No idea cause but they turned out to be nice dogs.


Thanks Dave and Brett, I had a vet tell me they could go away or stay for ever, please keep experiences coming...


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Greg, Joe Overby has a little black female (2 or so years old now) she has a crooked tail like that. Stayed that way. No problems though.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

I've had a couple over the years. First one I didn't notice until they were ready to go home, kink at the end only by feeling, but as she got older, it turned into a permanent crook. Vet at the time said likely happened in utero, formed that way, it didn't appear to be a break after birth. Nothing they could do other than dock it if desired, no reason to do that either as the tail was healthy, just crooked. She went to a guy in my training group, she's 13 now, saw her a couple months ago.

Anyway, started checking tails after whelping, didn't have another one for a long time. Didn't appear to be anything wrong with that dog either. I don't think a malformed tail here and there is any big deal, other than cosmetically, as long as tail appears otherwise healthy.

I have, however, heard that multiples in a litter may indicate some other issue, I have zero science to back that up, just what I've heard from old timers over the years, "check the tails". Don't know what I'd do with multiples in a litter myself, other than have vet check over thoroughly, especially listen for murmurs, be up front with the buyers that there's a kink at the end of the tail and it may be permanent, may turn out crooked, who knows. If something healthwise comes up down the road that actually was linked to the tail, then handle accordingly.


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Rainmaker said:


> I've had a couple over the years. First one I didn't notice until they were ready to go home, kink at the end only by feeling, but as she got older, it turned into a permanent crook. Vet at the time said likely happened in utero, formed that way, it didn't appear to be a break after birth. Nothing they could do other than dock it if desired, no reason to do that either as the tail was healthy, just crooked. She went to a guy in my training group, she's 13 now, saw her a couple months ago.
> 
> Anyway, started checking tails after whelping, didn't have another one for a long time. Didn't appear to be anything wrong with that dog either. I don't think a malformed tail here and there is any big deal, other than cosmetically, as long as tail appears otherwise healthy.
> 
> I have, however, heard that multiples in a litter may indicate some other issue, I have zero science to back that up, just what I've heard from old timers over the years, "check the tails". Don't know what I'd do with multiples in a litter myself, other than have vet check over thoroughly, especially listen for murmurs, be up front with the buyers that there's a kink at the end of the tail and it may be permanent, may turn out crooked, who knows. If something healthwise comes up down the road that actually was linked to the tail, then handle accordingly.


Thanks Kim, 

I had a friend show the pics to a vet at the University of Georgia, he said most likely happened in utero as you said.
The vet has checked them all, tails seem healthy, we will keep a close eye on them as they grow.


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

what about this one


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Brad said:


> View attachment 27815
> 
> 
> what about this one


Haha, Bobby Cat


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Google: puppy defects kinked tail


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

tails will not straighten, but will not bother them either


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Could be a good omen. 
FC-AFC Windy City's Bent Tail


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