# Having trouble getting lab to pick up birds



## stravis (Sep 29, 2008)

I've got a 14 month old black lab who I got at 11 months. He's perfect at obedience. He sticks to my side like a tick. Has a great drive to retrieve. I've never trained a bird dog before but have been following Chris Aikens video as much as possible. I've force fetched him to the best of my ability. He hold great, fetches well, although could be a tad better. 

Anyway, I have been using bumpers with all the training so far. I started him on a frozen wood duck tonight. He wouldn't touch it. He'd run to it, sniff it and come back to me. My fault I'm sure as I got a late start on him having gotten him at 11 months and having used bumpers in all of his training so far. How do I fix this? Tie a wing to the bumper for a while? Force fetch with the frozen bird? Pick up some live birds?

Thanks in advance for the help.


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## TN_LAB (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm eager for responses too. I just got a few frozen ducks and have been force fetching with only bumpers and rollers too.


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## quint (Jul 15, 2008)

i had the same problem. forced my dog on birds helped.with him not wanting to pick them up buy hewill pick them up now


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## stravis (Sep 29, 2008)

TN LAB, Glad I'm not alone. I just Forced Hold with the duck for about 5 minutes off and on and he seemed to loosen up a bit. I then tied a wing to a bumper. He was cautious at first, but by third or fourth throw, he didn't even seem to notice the wing. Unless I get some feedback telling me otherwise, I'll continue with the wing/bumper for a while, move to an ATB with a wing tied to it, then move to the duck again. Hope it works!

Additional input would be appreciated. I'm not new to dogs, but I'm new to training a bird dog.


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## K.Bolan (Feb 1, 2008)

I would go through a FF session with the frozen duck. Try walking fetch;first with bumpers then with the duck. 

Good luck.


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## colbyc1984 (Feb 25, 2007)

force with the duck,i had to with my current dog. might help to thaw the bird so it'll be easier to hold. just playing games to get him excited and tossing it might help also


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## Joe Dutro (Nov 20, 2007)

If you can get a fresh duck (not frozen) try teasing him or her with the duck and get them excited. I have had better luck with warm floppy duck rather than a frozzen bird. I personally don't like to FF a dog on a real bird because I want the dog to WANT the bird, not be pressured to get the bird. I have actually teased the dog to the point they are jumping for the bird, then I use very short throws with alot of excitment. Once their picking up the bird back off on the teasing or it could lead to some mouthing problems. Now once the dog is wanting the bird, I will go through a coulple of sessions of hold with the duck. Hope this helps, I just went through this about 2 months ago.
Joe


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

my pup did the exact same thing, then a light bulb went on in my head. 

Q) what do puppies want more than anything else in the world???
A) whatever another dog has in _their_ mouth!

so i got my old dog out, tossed a bird and had her fetch it, then the puppy realized he *had* to have it. 

problem solved in about 8 seconds.

a good transition is to attach by tape or wire a couple of duck/goose/pheasant wings to a bumper and FF with that.


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

It can take just a couple of minutes to transition from a bumper to a bird, half an hour at most.

Throw a simple short (five to ten yards is plenty) bumper retrieve into a fixed area....foot of a tree or such, with lots of verbal encouragement. Then throw a bumper with a few feathers cable tied to it to the same spot, again lots of encouragement and praise. 

Then a cold dead bird (I don't like the frozen ones, too "alien") This last should be small and not likely to have loose feathers. A partridge is ideal. 

You might want to introduce more baby steps; a wing tied on, then two, bird encased in the foot of some old panty hose etc. but it usually takes me just three retrieves.... bumper, bumper plus feathers, cold partridge. At our last training group we introduced four newbies to game this way... piece of cake and about ten minutes in total.

After he knows what is wanted you can reinforce with whatever means you choose, but teach him first.

Eug


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## stravis (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the help, guys. I'll be trying your recommendations tomorrow night. I won't get home tonight until too late to train, but I might work him some in the house with a bumper with wings tied to it. 

I'll let you all know how he turns out.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2008)

DO NOT DO FORCE FETCH WITH A DOG JUST INTRODUCED TO BIRDS!!!!

85-90% of dogs, that's my best estimate, will ***NOT*** pick up a duck the first time you throw it for them! PLEASE DO NOT force your dog as a FIRST RESORT.

I will almost GUARANTEE you that if you go out a few more sessions and PLAY with your dog with the bird, you will have him excited about it in no time.

It is NOT your fault for getting a late start on birds. It's simply because he hadn't had them yet. The same thing most likely would have happened if you did it months ago. It's simply SOMETHING NEW.

And you should NOT, I REPEAT **NOT**, force your dog on something new, ESPECIALLY something you want your dog to be excited about and that he's almost 100% likely to be excited about with a little effort and patience on your part.

When I first introduce dogs to birds, if they are not immediately taken with them (which is most of the time -- at least as far as picking them up -- they ARE usually excited to see them, just don't know what to do with them)... I'll run out to the bird, after throwing it (dog has usually run out, sniffed at it, but isn't sure what to do), snatch the bird right up excitedly while I'm acting like a goofball (hey, hey, hup, hup and acting silly/excited), tease the dog with it (wave it around in the dog's face, drag it along the ground, moving direction quickly) and then flip it out just a few feet. If does doesn't pick it up, I'll run to it (as if ***I*** am excited to get the bird) and repeat the process.

IF your dog really likes to retrieve and is an average or better dog -- or even a mediocre dog -- he WILL be picking up birds shortly.

DO NOT FORCE YOUR DOG ON BIRDS YET!!! Sorry, had to say it again...

The initial experience with birds should be POSITIVE. Force on birds, like anything else, ONLY ONCE you know your dog understands what you're asking and is refusing. Right now, birds are new, so help him understand and enjoy them.

Sorry, I'm in panic mode because of the responses about forcing when your pup has only seen birds ONCE!!!

-K


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## Brad n Drake (Apr 22, 2008)

surfgeoD300 said:


> my pup did the exact same thing, then a light bulb went on in my head.
> 
> Q) what do puppies want more than anything else in the world???
> A) whatever another dog has in _their_ mouth!
> ...


Thats a good tip. My dog can't stand seeing another dog with something in its mouth. 
Water retrieves with real ducks are good for starting too.


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

TN_LAB said:


> I'm eager for responses too. I just got a few frozen ducks and have been force fetching with only bumpers and rollers too.


Are to the point of force to pile yet? No? Then don't force on birds yet.

Evan


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

Kristie's response is great! 

7 or so years ago I came home from a dove shoot with a bunch of birds. I had a Golden and a Lab mix that loved to retrieve but had never been hunted. So as I was cleaning my bird the dogs were nosing around in my vest smelling everything. Just out of curiosity I threw a bird out into the yard. They both ran over smelled it and came back. I got the bird threw it again and made a big fuss when they went over to it. My Golden picked it up and brought it back. I threw it a few more times and from that point forward I had a pretty good dove dog. It clicked and she loved to retrieve dove for me. I hadn't been duck hunting and never really thought about a real duck dog. It was 2-3 years later before I got my present dog. 

Basically what I did, without knowing what I was doing, was exactly what Kristie said to do. Now mind you I had a completely untrained dog, except for OB, and she became a pretty good dove dog. She was 3 at the time.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

What Kristi said.....

How do you reward your dog...what do you say to him? I suggest that you want to be silent while the dog is going to the bird and then break out into loud cheers when he first sniffs the bird. When he backs away, say nothing. When he again approached the bird and sniffs it....HOORAY! You are marking the behavior of sniffing. If he starts to pick-up...more HOORAY!

Even though the dog is older, he's having a first experience as though he's a 6 week puppy. I suggest that you treat the experience the same way. You can worry about FF later. Now he's just got to pick-up the bird for a successful event.

Eric


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## stravis (Sep 29, 2008)

I couldn't wait until tomorrow night. I skipped lunch and went home to train for 20 minutes. I did exactly as you said, Kristie Wilder. I threw a bumper with two wings tied to it 5 or 6 times, then started throwing the duck. At first he'd run to it and stop, then I'd run to it, grab it and run away from him. Drove him nuts. It didn't take two or three times of doing that before he was picking up the bird every time (five minutes tops). He's still a little wary of it, he grabs it by the head or the feathers, but I can easily work on that. 

Thanks for the help all! I added a picture of him (Benelli is his name) in my avatar.


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## stravis (Sep 29, 2008)

I praise him once he picks it up with a lot of excited "good boy"'s, clapping, "good dog"'s, etc. I'll try the silent until he has it in his mouth and silent again if he drops it. Thanks.


By the way, I have several friends from Wetumpka. Do you know any of the Macon's? I went to Auburn with a few in the late 90's.



Eric Johnson said:


> What Kristi said.....
> 
> How do you reward your dog...what do you say to him? I suggest that you want to be silent while the dog is going to the bird and then break out into loud cheers when he first sniffs the bird. When he backs away, say nothing. When he again approached the bird and sniffs it....HOORAY! You are marking the behavior of sniffing. If he starts to pick-up...more HOORAY!
> 
> ...


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## SPIB698 (Feb 19, 2008)

I used Kristie's method on my BLF. 
I had told a HT guy about my dog and how good I thought she could be in the HT game. All I had really done at the time was obedience. He came down and set up some wingers with frozen ducks. He launches the first one and I send my dog, she gets to it, sniffs it good, decides NO WAY and comes back to us. We try again, same result. 
Load the wingers up with bumpers and try again. She flew out to the bumper and brought it straight back. 
He gave me the 2 ducks and I just played with my girl in the yard that afternoon. Short tosses and lots of praise everytime she picked one up. It might have taken 30 minutes to get her going on them. Now she's a bird crazed maniac!


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## Joe Brakke (Jul 3, 2008)

Listen to Kristie!

Also, they may baulk on a new bumper from time to time. Avery basket balls vs. a doken, canvas bumper, hard plastic bumper, soft plastic bumper and so on. Vary the types of bumpers you use to expose them to new textures and smells.


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## TN_LAB (Jul 26, 2008)

Evan said:


> Are to the point of force to pile yet? No? Then don't force on birds yet.
> 
> Evan


Yes. We've been forcing to mini-pile for a couple days. She did real well this evening with the mini pile. I'll work on the 9-bumper pile in a few days.

I've not introduced birds. When I do, my thoughts are to tease the dog and get her excited rather than forcing the birds on her. Yes?


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