# Seizure ??? and your thoughts or experiences



## vstoddard (Mar 23, 2012)

My five month old pup was laying down sleeping last night I got up so he followed me. I stopped to talk to someone and and sat down and his head started shaking like a fly was buzzing around his head. I thought it was strang so called him to me, he walked to me like he was drunk staggering from side to side. He sat down on my lap and then seemed to be fine got up walked over to the couch and collasped (his feet fell out from under him). He tried to get up and I ran over to him and he just layed down, this all lasted about a minute. I've never seen anything like it before it was like his legges wouldn't work.

I called the emergency vet and they said he probably just had an ear infection to just wait and bring him to the vet office in the morning. This happened at elven last night. I took him to the vet this morning and she said his ears had a little wax but seems to be fine that it seems like he had a seizure. She said most of the time though they lose control and will go to the bathroom on themselves, vomit, or are very stiff. My vet I normally see is out of the office this week. They did blood work and said everything was normal, but that if it was epilesy that it probably wouldn't have another one until he was two or three and then they would no for sure.

Has anyone experienced that, what happened in your case, it scared me and I'm not sure the vet I saw was so sure if it was really a seizure or if it was something else going on.


----------



## Henlee (Feb 10, 2013)

My dog had his first seizure about 2 years ago. He took off like a bullet in our kitchen and ran in circles until he fell down seizing. I took him to the vet and everything seemed normal. A day or so after that he started to shake his head uncontrolably. We took him to the vet again and they dignosed him with eplipsy. He was put on pheno-barb and later potasium bromide also. I was told not to use an e-collar on him. (Anyone else given this advice?) Other than that he has been able to do everything I have wanted him to do. He has had one seizure since the first one, because we went to low while adjusting his medicine.


----------



## Chuck Ward (Nov 28, 2012)

I've experienced 3 Grand Mall seizures with Calli, a female golden, between the age of 3 & 4. All of a sudden, no warning - shaking, convulsing, quivering, wild eyes, mouth foaming. Scared the daylights out of me - felt so very helpless! 

I struggled with spaying her, but finally did at age 5, never did breed her. She led an active life and was a great dog - SHR, CD, JH, ready for Seasoned/Senior work, but died the end of April 2007. She had several different health problems unrelated to the seizures later in life - most likely from tick borne diseases. At the end of her life she suffered from kidney, liver, torn cruciate ligament. Hemanigosarcoma was the final blow. All these except the kidney disease surfaced in the last 7 months of her life. She died at 9 years, 2 months. Still miss her. 

Seizures are a very hard thing to see, you never forget! Be careful you don't get bitten trying to comfort your pup if it happens again. My experience says they don't happen with any regularity. In my case we elected not to medicate, but seizures can definitely be controlled with meds.

Wishing you and your pup no more siezures and good health from here on!


----------



## MSDOGS1976 (Mar 7, 2009)

My old golden retriever had her first seizure around 2 1/2 years of age. Her's were mild in comparison to others that I have read about. Vet put her on phenobarbital when the seizures started occurring on a monthly basis. She never required a stronger dose and lived a normal life.


----------



## vstoddard (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks for your replies when your dogs were seizing did they stiffen up or go limp. She said he probably wouldn't have another one until he was two or three if it was epilepsy. She just seemed unsure and said it could have been that he got into something or was allergic to a bush or tree in my yard and to research what plants and trees i had in my yard and see if any of them where poisonious. I looked all over my yard and didn't see anything that he would have gotten into, but will have to see what plants I have and research those. 

I think there is something more to this as he only ate 1/2 cup of food in the morning and evening and is drinking less. Since all his blood work came back good not sure where to go from here but to watch him closely for a while. He isn't running a temp either. I'll probably take off Monday and take him back in if he doesn't start eatting or drinking tomorrow.


----------



## maryandkimo (Sep 29, 2004)

I'be had one with seizures and she always went stiff, but I am sure it varies. I would lean more towards low glucose, especially since not much food. 
Mary


----------



## Chuck Ward (Nov 28, 2012)

Calli stiffened as she convulsed. Her muscles relaxed towards the end of the seizure. As I remember all three events seemed to go on forever but in reality probably lasted 5 minutes or less each. She was exhausted physically for the rest of that day and off on her feeding. She then seemed to recover completely in 36 hours or less. My breeder thought the same about dog getting into something, chemicals, cleaners, plants, etc., but I found no evidence of that. In my case I purchased the dog to breed and start a kennel, the seizures were very upsetting, so I think I understand some of your feelings.

I feel certain your pup will recover to his former self and not show any ill effects. The seizures are scary and frightening but sometimes they are part of your dog world. Give lots of hugs, kisses and loving and he will return the same. Sending good thoughts and best wishes. Happy Easter.


----------



## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Has your dog been recently vaccinated or have you applied any monthly flea/tick topical or given any of the combination oral productions for flea/tick/heartworm prevention in the last 48-72 hours before the dog had this seizure incident?


----------



## rjssjs (Nov 10, 2008)

Just lost ours 2 weeks ago. 2 Months short of 5 years old. This was the first time he had a seizure, I rushed him to the vet when he had another in the parking lot. I carried him to the door and the vet assistants and vet came out and helped me carry him in. After he came out of that one he started walking into the walls and door and had another. He never came out of that one. Yes he went stiff on all 3, foamed at the mouth and urinated the first seizure. Never want to experience that again.


----------



## vstoddard (Mar 23, 2012)

No, nothing has changed since the time I've gotten him. I read a lot on the internet last night and am going to try changing foods, he has been teething and eatting less so my husband said maybe it was a lack of nutrients so we are going to change dog food and see if that helps. I'm so nervous about going back to work tomorrow and leaving him. I can't wait until my regular vet is in the office as he explains things really well and we can run through everything and he explain things really well. I read that it could be Vestibular Disease so I would like to run that by him as well. He is really irritated by his ears but she said his ears looked fine.



frontier said:


> Has your dog been recently vaccinated or have you applied any monthly flea/tick topical or given any of the combination oral productions for flea/tick/heartworm prevention in the last 48-72 hours before the dog had this seizure incident?


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

I'm not a vet but this is what I understand:

There is no definitive diagnosis for epilepsy. Seizures can result from several things ... low blood sugar, toxin of some kind, trauma. Blood work soon after the seizure can rule out the first two. Then, if there has been no trauma, the default diagnosis is probably epilepsy.

Treatment with meds can manage epilepsy effectively and the dog can usually live a long normal life. Without treatment, it will NOT go away, and seizures will probably become more frequent.

5 months is pretty young ... I believe they usually begin to appear in an epileptic dog around 3 or 4 years of age.

Again ... I am not a vet. Good luck.

JS


----------



## zoomngoldens (Nov 11, 2004)

Is there any chance he could have hit his head and the trauma caused the seizure? My golden had only one seizure in her life and it was after really crashing a jump in agility. She came out of the ring and had a seizure after hitting the jump. She was probably 4 or 5 years old when that happened and she is over 12 now and has never had another seizure. The vets determined that is was from the trauma of hitting the jump.


----------



## canebrake (Oct 23, 2006)

My yellow lab "Henry" had seizures all his life. He started with "fly biting seizures" when he was approx 6 months old and progressed to severe grand mal seizures. Here is some good information on seizures. http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/ Hope it was an isolated episode. Dang seizures....

martha
in memory of Hen...


----------



## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

vstoddard said:


> My five month old pup was laying down sleeping last night I got up so he followed me. I stopped to talk to someone and and sat down and his head started shaking like a fly was buzzing around his head. I thought it was strang so called him to me, he walked to me like he was drunk staggering from side to side. He sat down on my lap and then seemed to be fine got up walked over to the couch and collasped (his feet fell out from under him). He tried to get up and I ran over to him and he just layed down, this all lasted about a minute. I've never seen anything like it before it was like his legges wouldn't work.
> 
> I called the emergency vet and they said he probably just had an ear infection to just wait and bring him to the vet office in the morning. This happened at elven last night. I took him to the vet this morning and she said his ears had a little wax but seems to be fine that it seems like he had a seizure. She said most of the time though they lose control and will go to the bathroom on themselves, vomit, or are very stiff. My vet I normally see is out of the office this week. They did blood work and said everything was normal, but that if it was epilesy that it probably wouldn't have another one until he was two or three and then they would no for sure.
> 
> Has anyone experienced that, what happened in your case, it scared me and I'm not sure the vet I saw was so sure if it was really a seizure or if it was something else going on.


One of my dogs, a female english bulldog, has had epileptic seizures since she was just under 1 year old. She is now 4 1/2 years. I have become numb to them anymore. What you described does not sound like a seizure to me, at least from my experience with them. But I am no vet, so please listen to yours. From my experience: My dogs seizures are proceeded by extreme disorientation, doesn't know its name, walks in to walls like a wind up toy and walks right back in to them. She is on pheno, potassium bromide, and zemostiside (spelling?) every 12 hrs. She has a seizure at least monthly and it takes a day or two for her to recover afterward. I keep some lemon juice around to wash the flem from her mouth when she relaxes from the seizure enough to pry open her mouth. I also wedge a wooden spoon in her mouth before she locks up to keep her from chewing her tongue off. She almost did that once and I nearly put her down becuase of it, poor thing couldn't drink or eat for a week. Like I said I have become numb anymore to them, but they can be frightning to someone who has not experienced seeing one. I also keep a syringe of demoral as a last resort to break the cluster of seizures. Usually a extra pheno dose beyond what she normally gets twice a day stops the clusters, but not always.

I would be looking at other things besides epilepsy from the symptoms you described. Such as what is your dogs sire and the dams CNM status?


----------



## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

A young dog I bred and got back at 10 mos. had one a few days after she arrived. Her seizure lasted probably 60 seconds but seemed like much longer. She was very disoriented for about an hour afterward, and very subdued the rest of that day. Vets found nothing abnormal in her bloodwork and various tests. She'd knocked over a weber grill on the deck 5 minutes before it happened, but the hit didn't seem that hard, because the grill was empty and kind of rickety. But, it was apparently hard enough to cause her to have the seizure. She's never had another one, so hers had to have been caused by the bump on her head. It was the first time I've seen a full blown seizure with the dog thrashing on the ground, frothing at the mouth and eyes rolled back up in the sockets and going rigid at the end. If you've never seen one, a seizure is a terrible, scary thing. If I hadn't seen her hit that grill, I would never have known why she had it.


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

I have a BLM who had his 1st Grand mall around 3 years old. It was a horrible thing and even when he came out of it he would lash out and bite anything that touched him including me. The Vet said and I have read that in some cases the seizure is so severe that it causes temporary blindness and severe pain. He is now over 10 years old. He is on Pheno and a few years ago we had to up his dose. He has lived a normal life and trained and hunted until he retired. I know a lot of folks won't hunt or let a seizure dog swim but he likes it. He never has any seizures since on meds he likes it and if he had one while hunting and died if he had a soul I am sure thats how he and most of us would like to go.


----------



## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

I have witnessed a dog (not mine) having a seizure in the middle of a retrieve while duck hunting. Scary stuff. The dog's owner had to wade out and carry him back in.


----------



## rbr (Jan 14, 2004)

My only experience is like Julie's. When Buggs was about 3 or 4 he had a siezure which at the time seemed severe. 1st he started to pant then walked circles, then wobbled and eventually backed him self to a corner and collapsed into what appeared a semi conscious state. We loaded him into the car and headed to the Pet ER. By the time we got there he was pretty much normal.

He never had another one after that and lived to be 14 years old.

Bert


----------



## JBWDVM13 (Apr 1, 2013)

Have had a few personal experiences with dogs seizing, and I'm sure I'll have a few more once I get out into the real world here in a month. My sisters yellow male would have problems that she could only describe as "his leg seemed to be asleep" and "he just wasn't there." She said she'd try to talk to him and his pupils were dilated (enlarged) with no response to her at all. It was a unique situation though because it always started with him acting like he couldn't feel his leg which led to him being incoherent. We did a work up on him and found no indications that it was attributable to disease. There were several other problems on my mind but the veterinarian I was working with tried him on phenobarb and he never had a problem... until my sister quit giving him the meds because she thought "he was cured." We had a nice long talk on that one and he's been doing well ever since. 

Hope your pup is ok. As others have said if seizures are the problem they usually a manageable condition.


----------



## Steven Williams (Dec 29, 2011)

PLEASE BE CAREFULL - don't want to really write this - but if you have a dog that can siezure you need to know what can happen. My older dog has had siezures off and on for 3 or 4 years. Vet says for some reason it just happens. In beggining 1 or 2 a year. then once every 3or4 months. Usually i can tell when they are prone to come as my dog will get very anxious and worked up and I'll try to calm him down. The other dogs will alert me he is having a seizure as they will bark constantly. when i go check why all the noise i'll find him rigid and foaming at the mouth. Its tough to take. Just hold their head and in a few minutes they stop. It will take 2hours to 2or 3days for them to recover. To Know who you are. ALERT - mine had an unexpected siezure last week and his best buddy that they have ran together sense birth attacked him during the seizure. Heard the others dogs in next potty yard barking and went to see what was happening and one of the dogs had him by the neck and was dragging him around the yard.......
It didnt kill him but tore him up pretty bad- the dog that attacked him is the gentlelist dog you will ever find. Why this happened I don'tknow. ???? maybe never will - it just broke my heart - for both dogs. - my guess is it's just one of those dog things that we may never understand - right now i dont really care to try ----- Beware - if you have a dog prone to seizures and they run with other dogs ...... watch them carefully - you dont want to go thru what we have gone thru.


----------



## blackrat (Mar 19, 2011)

I had a Lab female who, out of the blue, started having seizures at about 3 years old. 

Someone on the RTF site also had the same problem & was considering Phen.Barb.

They were advised to change their dogs food. I did immediately & saw changes right away.

I bought the healthiest food I could find. They went away completely over time.

The food I was using is one of the most popular brands around.

Mike


----------



## awackywabbit (Dec 24, 2012)

Hunter started having seizures at 9 years of age. He went on pheno barb and I switched his food. It is a rough thing to go through and once certain conditions are ruled out there is not much vets can do. Pheno is rough on the liver but hunter was older so I felt control of the seizures was more important(he was having grand mals) then liver side effects due to his age. 

I have a friend whose golden mix started having them at 5 years and they switched foods as well and they almost stopped completely. The dog is now 13 and has not taken meds and had maybe 1-2 seizures a year vs 3-4 a month he was having before they switched foods.


----------



## vstoddard (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks for the advice I had family over then got sick so haven't had a chance to update. I called the vet yesturday and asked for a copy of the bloodwork so I can see what exactly they tested him for since everything came back good. It's like there is something wrong with this bag of food, because this is what I've been feeding him since I've had him and never had problems. I went ahead and got a different brand of food though and he's eatting everything set in front of him.

He was coheirent right after the episode and was running around like nothing happened. I did a lot of research Saturday after the vet visit and most seizures sound like the dog goes stiff and vomits, foams at the mouth, or goes to the bathroom on them selves. He didn't have any of these symptoms he went limp and his eyes darted back and forth. I was trying to look at his eyes after the episode but since it was dark I couldn't tell if they were dialated or not. It seems to me like his symptoms sounded more like vestubular disease, but that usually occurs in older dogs so who knows. I know the dogs where playing rough that afternoon but this happened hours after they where playing. One of them slammed into the door but I never saw which one. 

I got a kennel for him when he was a puppy but when Raven started limping I started using it for her. I told my hubby we needed another kennel and he agreed. They play too rough at times and I don't want them hurting each other.

I know it will go away with time but I'm terrified of leaving him, everytime he gets up I jump up to watch him as he was sleeping and got up when the episode happened. I'm also scared to do any training with him as everything I've read said don't use slip or prong collars, don't use shock collars, etc. He's teething right now so were only working on ob anyways but I'm scared to let him run and over exert himself.

I've been putting ear cleanser in his ear and now he'll let me touch them again, so wonder if even though there isn't an ear infection there was something else going on with his ears. I can't wait for my vet to get back so that I can bring him back in and have him look him over and see what his thoughts are as he explains things really well and don't think I'll feel any comfort until I can talk to him.

This is my first experience so I'm sure I'm way over reacting. Sorry about the long reply just trying to answer everyone in one shot.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

what food did you switch to help with seizure


----------



## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

It sounds like it could be mold toxicity. Hopefully getting rid of the bag of food will solve the problem.

Meredith


----------



## Rtyler4616 (Jan 26, 2011)

Besides the time frame being so early, it sounds exactly what I've dealt with for my Lab. At around 2 years of age my lab started having seizures, they were mild and because of that I wasn't sure that it was actually a seizure. The frequency randomly increased and so I videoed the episode as well as made a trip to our vet.

He was diagnosed with epilepsy and the seizures he was having we referred to as *petit mal seizures*, which didn't show the symptoms of vomiting or foaming or "swimming motions. My dog's seizures consist more of slight staggering and the more extreme fits his legs and neck will stiffen. All while coherent. Almost immediately following the conclusion of the seizure, my dog is back to normal.

We were prescribed potassium bromide. It has significantly reduced the amount of seizures but has not completely eliminated them.

Hope the info helps.

P.S. My lab still trains and hunts without being affected by the epilepsy.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

These are all things that must be ruled out. Essentially that's what a seizure diagnosis is....the diagnosis that's left when everything else has been ruled out. In a dog this young, I'd even include a portosystemic shunt in the possibilities. A very small shunt could produce an occasional slow increase in blood toxicity that could lead to seizure. The test is a blood test for the ammonia level in the blood.

Since the thread was started sometime ago, I'll hope that all is well.


----------



## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

freezeland said:


> One of my dogs, a female english bulldog, has had epileptic seizures since she was just under 1 year old. She is now 4 1/2 years. I have become numb to them anymore. What you described does not sound like a seizure to me, at least from my experience with them. But I am no vet, so please listen to yours. From my experience: My dogs seizures are proceeded by extreme disorientation, doesn't know its name, walks in to walls like a wind up toy and walks right back in to them. She is on pheno, potassium bromide, and zemostiside (spelling?) every 12 hrs. She has a seizure at least monthly and it takes a day or two for her to recover afterward. I keep some lemon juice around to wash the flem from her mouth when she relaxes from the seizure enough to pry open her mouth. I also wedge a wooden spoon in her mouth before she locks up to keep her from chewing her tongue off. She almost did that once and I nearly put her down becuase of it, poor thing couldn't drink or eat for a week. Like I said I have become numb anymore to them, but they can be frightning to someone who has not experienced seeing one. I also keep a syringe of demoral as a last resort to break the cluster of seizures. Usually a extra pheno dose beyond what she normally gets twice a day stops the clusters, but not always.
> 
> *I would be looking at other things besides epilepsy from the symptoms you described. Such as what is your dogs sire and the dams CNM status?*


*
*
I agree. Anything is possible but this doesn't sound like any seizure that I have ever seen.


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Rtyler4616 said:


> Besides the time frame being so early, it sounds exactly what I've dealt with for my Lab. At around 2 years of age my lab started having seizures, they were mild and because of that I wasn't sure that it was actually a seizure. *The frequency randomly increased* and so I videoed the episode as well as made a trip to our vet.
> 
> He was diagnosed with epilepsy and the seizures he was having we referred to as petit mal seizures, which didn't show the symptoms of vomiting or foaming or "swimming motions. My dog's seizures consist more of slight staggering and the more extreme fits his legs and neck will stiffen. All while coherent. Almost immediately following the conclusion of the seizure, my dog is back to normal.
> 
> ...


This. The first one you see may not be a grand mal.

There is no set pattern of what to expect in the progression of epilepsy but frequency and severity usually increases, sometimes slowly, sometimes rapidly. Five months is younger than most I have heard ... 2 - 3 years is more common for the onset. But bear in mind, your dog could have been having seizures previously that you did not know about if you were not present. They often ... but not always ... occur during "quiet time" or when the dog has been at rest. You may be at work and by the time you get home everything is normal.

Also, be careful of trying to determine a cause such as a dog food, exercise, etc. You may change dog food and not see a seizure for a year. Don't assume the food was the cause ... this may just have been the rate of progression for your dog and the food had nothing to do with it.

A lot of mystery around seizures in general and epilepsy in particular. Less is known about the brain than any other organ in the body and controlled studies are difficult to conduct.

There is not much point in worrying about leaving the dog alone. There is not much you can do anyway except try to protect them from collateral injury.

I'm not a vet ... this is just what I have learned.

JS


----------



## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

I had a lab with epilepsy. Seizures started when she was 3. We put her on pheno barb, and she lived a very good life to age 10 when we could no longer control her seizures. She was spayed after we were sure it was epilepsy, and I ran her in AKC Hunting Tests and trained her without issues and she was an excellent hunting dog. Her seizures were mild once she was on pheno barb. She would come to me, lean on my leg, lick her lips, and then go back to whatever she was doing. Hopefully, your dog's was a one-time only situation. Good luck!


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

HiRollerlabs said:


> I had a lab with epilepsy. Seizures started when she was 3. *We put her on pheno barb, and she lived a very good life* to age 10 when we could no longer control her seizures. She was spayed after we were sure it was epilepsy, and *I ran her in AKC Hunting Tests and trained her without issues and she was an excellent hunting dog*. Her seizures were mild once she was on pheno barb. She would come to me, lean on my leg, lick her lips, and then go back to whatever she was doing. Hopefully, your dog's was a one-time only situation. Good luck!


This was my experience as well. The phenobarb prevented further seizures altogether and we trained and trialed regularly for 4-5 years, though it was a year before I could bring myself to let her go on a big swim where I didn't think I could have got to her if she got in trouble.

The drug is hard on their body and I do believe I have seen repeated evidence of deteriorated cognitive abilities over time. At least that is my excuse and I'm sticking to it. 

JS


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

at what stage did you decide to got with pheno barb, what was the frequency of the seizures. did your dogs thrash around or just mild seizure


----------



## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Are you sure it was an actual seizure? We're his parents EIC clear? Back before we knew what EIC was a friend had an affected dog and not knowing it was EIC everyone, including the vet, thought it was seizures. 
EIC episodes do not always coincide with exercise. What you describe, not being able to use his legs, sounds a lot like EIC.


----------



## Criquetpas (Sep 14, 2004)

Many years ago had a Golden Male had epilepsy. Went on a 1/4 grain of Phens , trialed him in the all-age got a win couldn't pick the extra few points for his AFC. He was QAA pointed in U.S. and Canada. He was retired just short of his tenth birthday, lived until he was 16 years old and was put down because of bone cancer. Some things you had to be careful, they can drown, did pick him up twice at a trial, once in Canada carried him off the line in the last series water marks another time on the water marks he was staggering as he entered the water picked him up. Just side note would rather deal with EIC affected (you know what you have ) and HD ever again before epilepsy. You just don't know when the dog is going to have a seizure! Had a EIC affected and at least I knew when she was going down. I had a moderate HD and ran her until 9 plus. My thoughts I hope they get a good diagnosis on yours.


----------



## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

U of MN is now studying atypical collapse in Labrador Retrievers
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickelson/lab/EIC/AtypicalCollapse/home.html


----------



## Carol (Aug 17, 2004)

My old golden had his first seizure at 1 1/2. He had a condition called status epilepticus - the seizure starts but won't stop with out medical intervention. The second episode happened almost exactly one month after the first one. They would start with tremors and drooling, progress to a grand mal where he'd fall down and shake all over for about a minute, then go back to the tremors and drooling and just continue the cycle until medically stopped. He never lost control of his bowel or bladder during either of the episodes. He was started on pheno and is still on it now at 14 1/2. He only had one other episode and that occurred a year later when we tried to slowly wean him off the pheno. Five days after he was completely off he started seizing. It had to be medically stopped. We put him back on pheno, but a much smaller dose and he never seized again. He was trained with an e-collar and pinch collar and they never caused any problems. He is master hunter several times over and has a master national plate and was an awesome pheasant dog in his prime. We do full blood chemistry panels every year to make sure that there are no significant changes to his liver or kidneys.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

well we had a bad one this am, this was his second one. 6 weeks apart, I went to a new vet and they called it epilepsy and we are going to see what his cycles are for time frame before using pheno. I am pretty much torn up it was pretty hard to watch him this am.


----------



## jazzypad1 (Jun 7, 2009)

frontier said:


> U of MN is now studying atypical collapse in Labrador Retrievers
> http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickelson/lab/EIC/AtypicalCollapse/home.html


This is a link to a video clip of my BLM who suffers from "atypical" collapse as is being researched at Minnesota - hope it may be useful.
http://youtu.be/MdifQO2qevg


----------



## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

I didn't want to accept it was epilepsy, so I did a trial of another dog food hoping for a food allergy. She had two seizures in about a month period--so 3 total in about 1 1/2 months. Her seizures prior to phenobarb were pretty mild, lasting about 30 seconds to a minute. She would lie down, shudder all over, lose her urine. Then when she came out of it, she was completely exhausted--poor girl. I then took the vet's advice and she went on phenobarbital. The vet determined the amount for her weight, and I don't remember if she had seizures and the dose was altered--too many years ago. She would occasionally have a very mild seizure, even on the phenobarb. Those seizures were where she would come and lean on my leg, lick her lips a bit, then go back to whatever she was doing. She lived a good life until about age 10 when the phenobarb became ineffective. During the yeasrs when we had her seizures managed, she had a great time training, hunting and hanging out. She was also an EIC affected dog, so she did have episodes that my vet contributed to seizures--which I never felt was right because they come on so differently. This was in the late 90's--so we didn't know about EIC at that time. I found out she was EIC affected after she had passed away. I participated in the U of MN program, and after reading about the study I was pretty sure the episodes she had were EIC attacks--and they were. Hopefully once you get your dogs' seizures under control, things will smooth out and you can relax a little. It is very discouraging and distressing to watch a dog have a seizure--very helpless feeling.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

my new vet did not mention EIC, this last episode was after a walk. the first episode was sitting on couch doing nothing. EIC looks like epilepsy to me, the same type of seizure. The video you posted looks similar to our first and the start of our second, then the second one took on a new look with lots of movement. I was in denial after the first one currently I am trying to figure this out. Our last dog we lost after 4 yrs with a back injury so we are pretty torn up.

thanks for info everyone


----------



## Jason Smith (May 3, 2012)

There are several things that can seizures in dogs. A five month old puppy probably doesn't have neurological problems or brain tumors, at five months epilepsy is possible but not likely. Your most likely culprits are, EIC (Exercise Induced Collapse) If he had recent vigorous run in the sun this is a possibility (only if it had been within the hour). With a 5 month old retriever in the summer dehydration is also a possibility. Another distinct possibility that I have seen a couple times in the last year is tick borne illnesses (particularly Ehrlichiosis) all are dangerous and all can cause seizures (they are also all treatable) A common blood test (CBC) probably won't detect them your vet needs to do an IFA (Indirect Florescent Antibody) test to be sure that they are clear. If your vet specializes in hunting dogs or has a good exposure to them, this test should be his first stop in a diagnosis.

Hope this helps. know what its like...been there myself.

Good Luck,

Jason


----------



## Jason Smith (May 3, 2012)

Just noticed you were in OK. Prime Lone Star tick country, they are major offenders in tick born diseases.


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

dozer said:


> at what stage did you decide to got with pheno barb, what was the frequency of the seizures. did your dogs thrash around or just mild seizure


If they have grand mal seizures once a month or so, I would definitely put the dog on phenobarbital. If they have a grand mal seizure, you are risking damage that will cost the dog to go ino status epilepticus and never come out. I have one that takes phenobarbital and potassium bromide to control seizures. She would have a cluster of three grand mal seizures at a time.

I had a cocker spaniel that lived to be 17. She had petit mal seizures on an infrequent basis. I never did medicate her.

What type of symptoms are you seeing and how often?


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

2 seizures 6 weeks apart, not sure I understand what a grand mal is. the seizure looks the same expect the second one he started to thrash around inside our closet. I am pretty much reading everything I can, never heard of dog seizures until 6 weeks ago.

yesterday he was not normal very slow and tired, today he seems back to normal


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

A grand mal seizure can look like this: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiYyGCQEHDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rzIXhju_2c

Dog is out of it, even though eyes may be open. Dog may poop and pee on itself. These are big seizures. Last a few minutes to ??

Small seizures, they can just look ataxic, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4PMMrmiEAs

They come out of it quicker. They are more with it. My cocker used to try to run to me to get in my arms.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

I would say we hit grand mal yesterday am. I am still in denial that my guy has this but trying to figure it out. thanks for replies and info


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

dozer said:


> I would say we hit grand mal yesterday am. I am still in denial that my guy has this but trying to figure it out. thanks for replies and info


Is this the 16 month old?


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

You need to keep track of how long they last and how frequent they come. If your dog is starting to have a grand mal seizures, I would seriously think about putting it on seizure medication. If you have not done comprehensive bloodwork, including a complete thyroid (not just a t4- a Straight T4 really doesn't tell you much) then you should do that first. I would have your vet do the thyroid test that is performed by Michigan State.


----------



## Criquetpas (Sep 14, 2004)

My old guy had one what they called "status Epilepsy" he kept coming in and out, he was put on Valium IV and it brought him out. What one has to realize you don't know if he has many or a few seizures as the dogs aren't monitored 24/7. Several Vets reminded me of that. Occasionaly we would come home and find the rugs messed up etc indicating maybe thrashing on the floor? The sad thing about epilepsy is the potentional the dog has as a field trial dog or hunt test dog is greatly diminished. My Vets told me every time he has a seizure sometimes there might be slight brain damage too. Obviously they should not be bred.
I learned at a later date his DAM was a seizuring dog and had Junior Cataracts! We have come a long way since then 30 plus years ago and I am sure much research has been done since then along with better medications.


----------



## ChessieMom (Aug 28, 2013)

I've mainly been lurking up to this point, but I have had experience with 2 dogs who had seizure disorders, so I'll try to make my first post helpful. My first dog, a rehomed rat terrier, was diagnosed with canine epilepsy by the time he was 1.5 yrs or so. They never could tell what caused it, and he was on pheno-barb 2 times a day. He started with a low dose, which over the years was increased. He died at around age 9 or 10. His seizures were always fairly long Grand Mals, and his seizures were considered "under control" if he had one or less per month while on med. That seems like alot, but it was a delicate balance of meds vs. side effects and that seemed to keep him healthy the longest. I'm sure this would be different for a different dog/ vet.

My 2nd dog with a seizure disorder was a redbone coonhound rescue. Her seizures were also big Grand Mals, but started out with just one a year, at around the 2 year mark. the vet advised against medicating her since her seizures were so rare. We were never able to determine what caused them, but they did seem to sometimes occur after a high stress situation. Even in the last year of her life, I think she only had 2 or 3 that whole year. She also lived to be about 9-10 years old.

I've noticed several things that were typical to both dogs, that might help you:

1. My dogs knew when they were going to have a seizure before I could see any signs. Both would high tail it to either me or my husband and move to lower ground if they'd been on furniture. Both liked to be in enclosed spaces during a seizure. You could see evidence of this if they had one while we were out. We didn't crate train either of these dogs, but I wish we had. They would've been much more comfortable when we were out. Watch the dog, and pay attention to their seizure cues so you can keep them safe when you're out and about with them. 

2. This is sad, but I noticed cognitive decline with both dogs over the years. One took pheno barb, and one didn't. The seizues themselves do cause brain damage, that you will notice over the years. Sometimes a little...sometimes more.

3. If you have children, you will want to make sure you no longer leave them with the dog, alone without an adult, even for a minute. Seizures can come on fast, and the dogs behavior can be unpredictable. Kids can get very hurt, by a dog that normally would NEVER do that but for the seizure. Remember, because of the seizure, their brains aren't working properly. You may also need to keep the kids and the dog seperated after a seizure is done. Dogs can be snappy or bitey and need to rest hours or even a whole day afterwards. 

4. I did notice temperment changes as the years went on as well. It is definitely something to keep an eye on.

5. Before our coonhound's last debilitating seizure, I discovered some online info that indicated that it might be possible to stop a seizure by applying ice directly to a specific few vertebra between or below the dog's shoulder blades during a seizure. You might want to do an online search and discuss this with your vet. It sounded promising at the time but we weren't able to try it out.

4. Alot of people seem to see success through changes in diet. It's worth a shot...it didn't work for us, but if a whole food, unprocessed diet is best for humans, then it makes sense that going that direction for a dog might also be a good thing. Big changes in diet can also be stressful for some dogs though, so you'll have to see what works best for you.

Bottom line...both dogs lived pretty long lives considering. They were both happy, and in good spirits most of the time when they were seizure free. They had good lives, and even though they had this illness, it was manageable, and not that expensive to treat. We did have to do bi-annual bloodwork and changes in med. dosage, but it wasn't all that expensive and they did well. It's not the end of the world, though it does seem daunting. I'm sure your dog will do good, with a good treatment plan, and will have many happy years ahead.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

my guy is 3 yrs 2 months old, blood work done by two vets nothing adnormal. new vet said it was epiliepsey and has worked with many dogs who have seizures. I am going to talk to him tomorrow about the ice, I actually googled how to cool a dog with seizure today and read many stories about using ice. I also realize my guy could be having them when we are at work but not during the night, he sleeps on the floor 2ft away from me on his bed so I hear his dreams when we wakes me up. Today he seems better but still not 100%. I am tracking them on a calendar 

thanks for all the info


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Actually, it probably is idiopathic epilepsy. As Earl indicated and others, you can get brain damage with every seizure. The more brain-damaged they get the more likely they are 
to go onto status epilepticus. Sometimes these seizures cannot be stopped or treated. I would seriously consider putting your boy on phenobarbital or other seizure medications. I have also known homeopathic vets to have treated seizures successfully. Also acupuncture. But each seizure does seem to take something out of them. don't want to go to long before making a decision.

Good luck to you and your dog and I am sorry you're going through this.


----------



## 3blackdogs (Aug 23, 2004)

dozer said:


> the seizure looks the same expect the second one he started to thrash around inside our closet.


This does not sound like EIC. An EIC collapse does not resemble a seizure unless it's a particularly mild one. And hallmarks of an EIC attack are that a) there is some stimuli that acts as a trigger, and b) after about 20 minutes the dog is up and about like nothing happened. 

I have never heard of a dog having an EIC collapse while laying on the couch. 

A simple swab test will answer the EIC question. If your vet is unfamiliar, you can go on the UMinnesota website that was cited earlier and download the forms and instructions for your vet. 

I have no direct experience with seizures, fortunately. I have one dog that has serious heart disease now (dilated cardiomyopathy) and has had a couple of syncope episodes that look like a mild seizure but are not.

I'm sure it's hard to watch, but perhaps it would be helpful to video the seizure the next time it happens. That might be very useful for your vet or whatever referral vet you might go to.

Good luck.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

thanks everyone, talking to the vet this am


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

Just had a double seizure, I used the ice and it seemed to end it and then it came back and was pretty violent. Last one was Aug 26, 2013. Calling the vet in the am. He seems normal and everything ok.


----------



## maryandkimo (Sep 29, 2004)

Sorry this seems to have come back after control for so long. If you are using KBr, have you switched foods recently? Also, might be good to have some liquid valium on hand to give rectally. 
Mary


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

Not on meds, no change in food. The only thing that changed was I did not exercise him yesterday after work. I am mystified by this condition, hard to believe this is happening. I had no idea this would happen to a dog. I have had dogs all my life 46 yrs.


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

dozer said:


> Not on meds, no change in food. The only thing that changed was I did not exercise him yesterday after work. I am mystified by this condition, hard to believe this is happening. I had no idea this would happen to a dog. I have had dogs all my life 46 yrs.


It would not be the lack of exercise. If you're starting to seeing increasing violence and multiple seizures in a row, it is time to start to consider about putting him on medication. If you're not wanting to do straight medication, then see a homeopathic vet as soon as possible. You may also want to try acupuncture. With every multiple seizure or clusters of seizures with increasing violence, you run the risk of them not coming out of it and going into status epilepticus. This means that you will not be able to bring them out of a seizure, even with emergency vet care. You would end up having to put them to sleep.. As mentioned before, with each seizure, especially violent ones you can have brain damage.

like Mary suggested, liquid Valium to give rectally can bring them out of a seizure very quickly. You may want to ask your vet about it. It is very quick absorption, and therefore works quickly. I keep liquid Valium in my emergency dog box. You never know when you may need it.


----------



## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

Came across a site (as mentioned on a Facebook post) that suggested an icepack on the dogs back ... not the neck or heard ... large enough pack to start just about forward of the mid-back and extend toward the rear of the dog's body. Supposedly makes seizure noticeably shorter & recovery improved as well.

No drugs involved, and you could keep one of these icepacks in the freezer for the unexpected event if you have a dog known to seize and choose to opt out of meds.

I have been told that frequent seizures, over time, could actually have some effect on brain function. My first Golden, from a puppy farm (yikes!), had grand mal seizures most of his life, about once a month until he got to be about 12 or so, when they just stopped? I did not notice any signs of impaired brain function in him.

Seizing that starts later in life, I have known of 4: three turned out to be brain tumors, but the 4th had a large tumor (probably lympho) in the abodomen that was likely interfering with blood flow to the brain to cause the seizures.


----------



## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

dozer said:


> Just had a double seizure, I used the ice and it seemed to end it and then it came back and was pretty violent. Last one was Aug 26, 2013. Calling the vet in the am. He seems normal and everything ok.


Autoimmune thyroiditis may also cause seizures. If your vet has not recommended a full T3-T4 thyroid test, please discuss with him. Dr. Jean Dodds article
http://dogs4dogs.com/JR_Articles/dog-autoimmune-thyroiditis.htm


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

My new vet does not seemed to concerned, I talked to him the next am and went over what happened and asked several questions. He wants to document the seizures and watch the distance between them. My theory was lack of exercise but he said that would not cause this. This last one he was excited when my wife and daughter got home and he ran upstairs like he always does and when they opened the door he just started. I will ask about the liquid Valium.

I think the ice helped but really not sure, it slowed down the first one and then he seemed ok but then it came back and he really stiffened up and went into a thrashing mode.

Thanks for the replies and help also


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

Had a pretty long one yesterday, lasted 15 minutes. I got to work and the wife called, had to turn around and go back home. This was his longest bout and they are getting closer together. Vet still not ready for meds but I am getting closer.


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

dozer said:


> Had a pretty long one yesterday, lasted 15 minutes. I got to work and the wife called, had to turn around and go back home. This was his longest bout and they are getting closer together. Vet still not ready for meds but I am getting closer.


With that length of seizure, I would be medicating the dog....


----------



## PalouseDogs (Mar 28, 2012)

To be blunt, I would look for a new vet. From what I've read, evidence indicates that each seizure tends to make it easier to have another one. This dog has been having long-lasting seizures that are getting more frequent. If you don't get them stopped or better controlled, you eventually may not be able to control them. For most vets, phenobarb is still the drug of first resort for dogs. It's fairly inexpensive, although you will need to do a blood panel on a regular basis to check organ function and to measure blood phenobarb levels. My standard poodle (nearly 8 years old) has been on phenobarb still he was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy at about age 21 months. He has an occasional break-through seizure every 6-12 months. His are fairly mild focal seizures and I usually only know he's had one when I find a big wet spot of urine on the bed or couch where he sleeps.


----------



## Henlee (Feb 10, 2013)

I don't like questioning vets, but mine put my boy on meds right away. I would ask them very specifically why they want to wait to start medication. There may be a good reason for that, but with your dog having one about every 4-5 months and that they are getting more sever and lasting longer each time it does not seem like a good idea to me at all.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

I think we are getting closer to meds, he allowed me to get liquid valium thanks to Justice Dog for posting. I am getting that Saturday am if he has a long bout. I have a feeling his next one we will move towards the meds. Thanks for all the replies, it helps me think this out.

Justice Dog -- thanks for the tip on liquid valium also


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Dozer, what is your vet waiting for? Why is he afraid of Phenobarb? I've had a dog on it for about 5 years. It does take it's toll but she's had a good, active life ... been able to train for and run Field Trials. I think the alternative is to risk losing your dog.

JMO.

JS


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

dozer said:


> I think we are getting closer to meds, he allowed me to get liquid valium thanks to Justice Dog for posting. I am getting that Saturday am if he has a long bout. I have a feeling his next one we will move towards the meds. Thanks for all the replies, it helps me think this out.
> 
> Justice Dog -- thanks for the tip on liquid valium also


I wouldn't just stop there. 15 minutes is too long.... . at this point he does need to be on meds. If he continues to seize, it will be very prone to it, and you are running the risk of him going into status epilepticus and him not coming out of the seizure.... and then you will have no choice but to put him down. You either need to get tough with your vet or get a new one. and I don't say that too often.

Glad my suggestion on the liquid valium helped. This is something I've been through before.


----------



## kelrobin (Aug 12, 2013)

I haven't read all the replies so if I duplicate something, forgive me. 5 months is pretty early to show signs of epilepsy. Average age is 3-4 years. 

Did you by chance recently apply Frontline? A friend of mine lives in MO and regularly applied Frontline for the ticks there. The dog never had any issues. Then one day the dog had a seizure at 8 years of age. Kinda late to start if it were epilepsy and her vet agreed with me. They did all sorts if bloodwork which all came back normal. 

The he dog had another grand mal seizure about a month later, then another a month after that. they put the dog on phenobarbital since the seizures were getting worse. My friend was laying in bed one night and the lightbulb went on. She grabbed her calendar and sure enough, the dog was seizing 2 days after she applied Frontline. Stopped the Frintline, weaned him off the phenobarbital and the dog has never had another seizure.


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

The OP has the 5 month old. Recent posts are directed to Dozer ... his dog is nearly 4 yrs. Prime age.

JS


----------



## ChessieMom (Aug 28, 2013)

I've had 2 dogs with canine epilepsy, both who had 15+ min. grand mal seizures, and our vet also chose not to prescribe meds to our 2nd dog. If I remember his reasoning, it was because her seizures were more than a month apart...several months actually, for years. I believe he said that it would be very difficult to figure out therapeutic levels of the meds, because part of how they figure out if the meds are working, is when the seizure frequency is reduced. They considered med levels at therapeutic levels for our first seizure dog when his seizures reduced to only one a month. That was the magic number, when the benefits of the phenobarb outweighed the risks of the side effects I guess. Over time, when he started to have more frequent seizures, they'd do a blood panel and increase his dosage and so on.


----------



## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

I had a Golden who's grand mal seizures started when he was 7 or 8. At the beginning they were more than a month apart, but he was started on Gabapentin which does not have the obvious mental effects of phenobarb. The vet considered it a milder option, and so it seems. It worked very well in decreasing the frequency of the seizures, but over the years the seizures gradually resumed increasing in frequency. Personally leery of the depression effect of the phenobarb, we added potassium bromide which really worked. He was never seizure free, but they were rare. Even with the medication, he remained the same goofy yahoo that he always was, never acting like he was drugged (always my complaint with phenobarb). He died at 12+, so I consider the treatment a success.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Seizures are evangelistic. The synapses that misfire and cause the seizure will teach the adjacent synapses to also misfire and the focal point in the brain that is causing the dog to seize grows. There have been cases of dogs that are well medicated for years simply stop seizing because the synapse hass been taught not to seize. Rare but it can be done.

Blood tests won't diagnose a seizure disorder. If a young dog is seizing (less than 6 months or so) an ammonia level test can pin point a hepatic shunt that cause the seizing but idiopathic seizure disorder can't be found by a blood test. In fact, when no other source of the dog seizing can be found, idiopathic seizure disorder is the diagnosis. Idiopathic means "cause unknown".


----------



## Maxs Mom (Sep 17, 2009)

I had a dog have only 2 grand mal seizures. I feel very lucky. They are extremely scary to witness. She was a young adult dog, when she had them I don't recall her age. However they never happened again (knock on wood). We ran the gamut of tests to try to diagnose, but no luck. She was over weight at the time, I don't know if that triggered anything, since we got a lot of weight off and kept it off and never saw another seizure. So sometimes they can stop on their own. 

She's now 11.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

Dozer is 4yrs old, we have done two blood workups with two vets and nothing came up. I have the liquid valium and two neighbors trained in case I am not home. He is around someone all summer so we are keeping a close eye on him. Thanks again for all the replies


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

I thought I would give an update and new issues, Dozer is doing well with Phenobarb it controls the seziures when he has them. This Forum helped me keep checking into the issue. Last week we think he got bit by a bee early in the morning, took him to vet and they gave him a shot of steroid with some Benadryl type medicine. He did not react well to any of this and later in the week starting to feel better. Then later this week he would not eat (Monday) so I took him the vet Tuesday am, they said he had a blockage and we viewed the X-ray and you could see a white something. They opened him up today and found nothing, after talking to two of the vets today the one vet mentioned his intestine looked enlarged / swollen. She mention Lymphoma and we will see what happens and keep him on a special diet. I am pretty lost just reaching out for any opinions on this forum from others. He is 6 yrs old good health expect he started having some issues in the fall with allergies.


----------



## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

dozer said:


> I thought I would give an update and new issues, Dozer is doing well with Phenobarb it controls the seziures when he has them. This Forum helped me keep checking into the issue. Last week we think he got bit by a bee early in the morning, took him to vet and they gave him a shot of steroid with some Benadryl type medicine. He did not react well to any of this and later in the week starting to feel better. Then later this week he would not eat (Monday) so I took him the vet Tuesday am, they said he had a blockage and we viewed the X-ray and you could see a white something. They opened him up today and found nothing, after talking to two of the vets today the one vet mentioned his intestine looked enlarged / swollen. She mention Lymphoma and we will see what happens and keep him on a special diet. I am pretty lost just reaching out for any opinions on this forum from others. He is 6 yrs old good health expect he started having some issues in the fall with allergies.


I had a dog just short of her 12th birthday who began to seize. We treated her with phenobarb and feared the worst, a brain tumor.

I gave her palliative care with the phenobarb and a low-carb, home-cooked diet. She lived 10 months with good quality of life. She still had some occasional seizures. They seemed to occur when she awoke from sleeping.

The post mortem eventually revealed the cause. She had lymphoma in her abdomen. The seizures were being caused by the large growth cutting off blood supply to her brain, resulting in the seizures. This explained why they would occur when she woke from sleeping as she would have been laying in one position allowing the tumor to rest on some critical blood vessel. There are lymph glands in the abdomen, so if those lymph glands are swollen it is not as obvious as when the glands in the neck are swollen.

I hope this is not the cause in a dog as young as yours.


----------



## Jerry and Freya (Sep 13, 2008)

I had a three year old Golden who had seizures. I switched her to a grain free food and the seizures were gone for good. She lived to be almost 13 years old.
Freya


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

Gerry,

It sounds very familiar but his seizure come with no warning, the phenobarb has helped to control them. This new discovery does not look good, received another call today they are going to keep him overnight again he is not keeping food down. He stopped eating Monday morning this week. It is starting to hit home for me, I am struggling with the thought and we need to tell the kids so we are waiting to get more news tomorrow. 

What you posted sounds exactly what we are dealing with 

Thanks for replies


----------



## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

dozer said:


> Gerry,
> 
> It sounds very familiar but his seizure come with no warning, the phenobarb has helped to control them. This new discovery does not look good, received another call today they are going to keep him overnight again he is not keeping food down. He stopped eating Monday morning this week. It is starting to hit home for me, I am struggling with the thought and we need to tell the kids so we are waiting to get more news tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Yes, my old dog started with no prior warning. At her age at the time, there was no question that I would only do palliative care. She did very well for 10 months, and enjoyed life. 

The phenobarb did not totally control her seizures, but they were farther apart than the first two before the meds were begun. Vet also told me that it is not unusual for the phenobarb to take a week or so to start to work. 

If I'm understanding you correctly, they saw something on the xray, but when they went in there was nothing there ... so what was it they saw on the xray?

It can sometimes be worth having a radiologist look at xrays. Many years ago a dog I co-owned just collapsed one day. Vet's opinion of xray was cancer on the spine. Had a radiologist look at it, and he said it was FAT! (dog was obese). However, the radiologist also spotted something else which he dx'd as a infection in the spine. First 24 hours on antibiotics and she was up on her feet.


----------



## quackaholic (Aug 26, 2013)

Potassium Bromide and Phena Barb is the best course of meds. But only if he has them on a regular basis. Because it really only reduces frequency and severity of the seizure. He will still have them and sometimes it's best to just let them run their course. The meds have constant blood work monitoring and can cause liver damage. We had to start one of our crested dogs on this regimen and now we have had to add Milk thistle to lower liver number.


----------



## dozer (Jul 13, 2012)

my guy as been on phenobarb for two years on a very steady schedule, it has helped with sezures. The new issue is he will not eat, they are telling me he could have lymphoma. He is not keeping any food down, when they opened him up they found nothing but noticed his intestine was swollen / enlarged / thicker. They have had him all week monitoring him and no improvement.


----------

