# SIX Specific body types of Labrador Retriever



## choclabs (Sep 7, 2005)

The Labrador Retriever

"English" versus "American" Labrador?
"Show" Labrador versus "Field Trial" Labrador?

The six different body types of Labradors
1 - Holton Classic
2 - Brittany
3 - Donalbain
4 - Mardas
5 - Whitmore
6 - Lawnwood

From "LabradorNet" owned by Jack Vanderwyk

Copy and past this address into your webbrowser
http://labradornet.com/index_e.html 

THEN 

For several pictures of each body type.....
CLICK on "Labs in Detail" button located in the menu on left side of the page.

THEN 

Scroll down to and click on the webpage link "Labrador Typecasting" just above the black and white picture of the yellow Labrador.

GUESS WHAT???? They are all Labrador Retrievers!!!!

This guy has tons of information on Labrador Retrievers to share with all of us. I have been learning from this guy for over 4 years now.

ENJOY - Michael Watson


----------



## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Read the *between show dogs and working dogs?* on the Vanderwyck websight. I think the guy's full of sh*t.


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Howard N said:


> Read the *between show dogs and working dogs?* on the Vanderwyck websight. I think the guy's full of sh*t.


Exactly-lots of stuff is pretty hokey. You can also send in a pedigree of a dog and he'll tell if you should buy it and all about the kennel. Interesting he recognizes many lesser kennels but does not recognize Candlewoods. Many of his papers are his opinion and ramblings. He completely ignores any great field dogs.


----------



## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

I hate his attitude,its not helping the split any.
If more of the show people tested, he would find that eic is not just a field bred disease. C'mon to our show friends on this board, share with him the dogs who are affected that are show bred......
I just had a potential stud tested and they said he came back affected. Total full on show breeding.


----------



## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

What a crock of wrong information in the article "should there be any difference between show dogs and working dogs". In this article, field Labs are described as "hyperative", "extreme case of agression if not enough exercise", "muscles twitch for activity at a constant rate", and "not the right type of dog for most people". "they will take out their frustration on other animals if not provided enough exercise".


----------



## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Billie said:


> I hate his attitude,its not helping the split any.
> If more of the show people tested, he would find that eic is not just a field bred disease. C'mon to our show friends on this board, share with him the dogs who are affected that are show bred......
> I just had a potential stud tested and they said he came back affected. Total full on show breeding.


Absolutely. His statements about EIC being a field thing is FAR OFF BASE. All you have to do is look on OFA right now at the EIC data, click on the vertical peds of the Affecteds and see some very pure for show lines that are affected. My Carrier gene came from a dog w/ a very deep show pedigree. My dogs (more field) were clear before that (as verified by testing all in the research phase of the test). I think the show lines have as much, if not more EIC than the field.... 

As someone trying to find appropriate show dogs to breed to carriers, I can tell you it is TOUGH. I do think the tide is changing though as more and more breeders are at least sounding like they will consider using the test now.

Anne


----------



## TN_LAB (Jul 26, 2008)

Mine looks like a Whitmore


----------



## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

Howard N said:


> Read the *between show dogs and working dogs?* on the Vanderwyck websight. I think the guy's full of sh*t.


I vote with Howard .


----------



## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

A lab is a lab but you can see a difference.


----------



## spj (Sep 1, 2008)

I've got to say, where I live none of the labs look like most of those sawed off pigs. Most of the labs around here look like the 5's, and they are not from either show or field lines.


----------



## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Mine are mostly #1s. which for what its worth, I try to describe my dogs as "Classic" looking,or traditional look.
I bred one female,4 generations ago, to a half show half field male and the rest of my breedings from there down the line have been to field bred dogs. I breed for a look I like,and trainability and temperement that I like to work with. Doesnt make me right or wrong-but I like what I have.


----------



## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

ChocLabs, thanks for emailing me that info.I've known ChocoLabs for many years and he has a pup that he is the breeder of, a choco Lab male named, Brew Of St James' Gate ...Stout that is the finest looking CLM I've ever seen. Stout is owned by an attorney in New Orleans and got the 2nd in a Q last weekend. I beleive he is still a two year old.Good going Michael!


----------



## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Billie said:


> Mine are mostly #1s. which for what its worth, I try to describe my dogs as "Classic" looking,or traditional look.
> I bred one female,4 generations ago, to a half show half field male and the rest of my breedings from there down the line have been to field bred dogs. I breed for a look I like,and trainability and temperement that I like to work with. Doesnt make me right or wrong-but I like what I have.


Someone asked me privately today what I classified mine as. I answered Holton (#1) + Mardas + a little Lawnwood. I think as you breed, your mix often changes a tad, but if you breed true to type each time, you get fewer and fewer surprises/disappointments too. Anne


----------



## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

John Kelder said:


> I vote with Howard .


I'm with Howard.


----------



## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

I didn't see my new pups type. "porky" He's 22 lbs at 9 weeks!


----------



## Tom Mouer (Aug 26, 2003)

The authour is another self proclained "expert" looking for his "15 minutes of fame." Has he contrubited anything other than his observations to improving the breed.
I concur with Howards' evaluation.


----------



## Fowl Play WA (Sep 16, 2008)

windycanyon said:


> Someone asked me privately today what I classified mine as. I answered Holton (#1) + Mardas + a little Lawnwood. I think as you breed, your mix often changes a tad, but if you breed true to type each time, you get fewer and fewer surprises/disappointments too. Anne


Anne, I was thinking that Stryker looked like Holton/Madras too, which is to be expected, since he's got sister's at your place;-).


----------



## choclabs (Sep 7, 2005)

Thanks to all for bringing forth some of Mr. Vanderwyk's biases contained in his work. It is also worthwhile to hear from you "many years of effort" breeders that his statistics are less than scientifically accurate.

However Mr. Vanderwyk does us all a great service by collecting and posting more historical photographs of Labradors than any other website that I know of. He also demonstrates that he is guilty of exactly what many of you have posted, we all have our own personal list of traits that each of us prefer and dislike within the breed. His tastes may be quite different than most of what we see and experience here in the States. And he obviously has very limited "hands-on" exposure to a large sampling base of US competition bloodlines.

I am sure that many of you HAVE seen that combination of competition bloodlines that had SO MUCH drive that almost self destruct from spontaneous combustion. Perhaps some of you have even seen Ms. Aycock's comments on getting Honcho to the line, per her DVD video interview on "Problems and Solutions". SO....Mr. Vanderwyk may have only seen some very high spirited examples of US FT & HT bloodlines.

Now to address Mr. Booty's compliments - THANK YOU! 

And as Paul Harvey would say PAGE 2 - The litter he speaks of was whelped by my attempt to produce an Open All-Age chocolate female, Java. She had a lot of talent but just not enough to get an Open A-A ribbon of any color, and I absolutely had not near enough handling experience to do her ANY justice in Amatuer FT's. Her conFORMation included a snipey head combined with a tail that most resembled an English pointer on point when she ran and top that all of with NO undercoat.

I am most pleased with Stout's conFORMation, however I also have seen 4 other of his siblings, one male looked almost exactly like his mom and 2 females also look much like their mom, and another male resembles Stout's conFORMation. I am now intrigued enough to request some recent photos of their other siblings for comparison. So with my VERY limited litter production experience - 3 total litters, one NFC '08 ninth series finisher 2 MH's out of a previous litter and dam - I am convinced that those of you who have bred and produced many litters over the years have a RIGHT to your own opinions based on the wisdom obtained from your efforts.

From my perspective, it seems that the US competition (esp Field Trial) bloodlines are dominated with # 5 Whitmore body types. I have a male that looks almost identical to the sitting chocolate male in Mr. Vanderwyk's picture by the person wearing blue jeans. I also am very much attracted to this Whitmore body style. 

Thanks to all for your replies and opinions!

Michael Watson


----------



## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

While we are on the subject-anyone want to guess the build of the "British Champ" a pic was in the RJrl feb?mar issue-looks like a Field Trialer to me-could it be our cousins have got some across the pond blood in the Queens backyard.
John


----------



## pafromga (Jul 16, 2006)

Howard N said:


> Read the *between show dogs and working dogs?* on the Vanderwyck websight. I think the guy's full of sh*t.


amen to that


----------



## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

whitefishjohn said:


> While we are on the subject-anyone want to guess the build of the "British Champ" a pic was in the RJrl feb?mar issue-looks like a Field Trialer to me-could it be our cousins have got some across the pond blood in the Queens backyard.
> John


I dunno. He may bark with a funny accent but he looks like a regular lab to me.


----------



## SeniorCoot (Feb 26, 2008)

I dunno know if there is anything in those pics BUT I have two bro's different litters who look like one Holton Classic and one almost like a brittany- as he is heavier(100lb) than bro(85) but vworks about the same except harder to get back into boat-Ha-pup -8mos YLM-looks almost like the Madras gold? but is stretching out a bit as he matures.


----------



## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I'd like to know:
where he came up with the names and what specific traits define each "type". I see inconsistencies in the photos, with the "types" not clearly defined and pics of one type that look just like another.


----------



## threelabs (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm with Howard too! It is ridiculous to define labradors in "six different body types"... 

It is quite pathetic - people blindly believe in 'printed text' and think they 'learn'!


----------



## threelabs (Nov 21, 2007)

Sharon,

Holton and Whitmore were famous British affixes in 1920's. (Mr. M. Gilliat, Major Twyford)

The remaining four are all British show breeders' affixes.


----------



## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm curious as the what actually defines each type? I don't see six distinct types here at all.


----------

