# DOT #'s for Dog Trucks



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Just an FYI to everyone.

As of August 1, 2011, any truck or truck trailer combo that exceeds 10,000 lbs *must* display a DOT #. Several reports of trainers being stopped have come to my attention in MN and this is the info we got. DOT # is no charge and if you are moving dogs across state lines, you need to register with your state DOT under the Unified Carrier Program and in MN that is a $40.00 fee for up to 2 rigs, 2 trucks or a truckk trailer combo.

MN #'s are 651-291-6150 for the federal office and 651-366-3717 for the state office that handles the Unified Carrier Program.


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Golddogs said:


> Just an FYI to everyone.
> 
> As of August 1, 2011, any truck or truck trailer combo that exceeds 10,000 lbs *must* display a DOT #. Several reports of trainers being stopped have come to my attention in MN and this is the info we got. DOT # is no charge and if you are moving dogs across state lines, you need to register with your state DOT under the Unified Carrier Program and in MN that is a $40.00 fee for up to 2 rigs, 2 trucks or a truckk trailer combo.
> 
> MN #'s are 651-291-6150 for the federal office and 651-366-3717 for the state office that handles the Unified Carrier Program.



Should bring this to the POTUS page and let us chew on it for a while...


----------



## Don Lietzau (Jan 8, 2011)

I might be wrong but if they are requiring a DOT# then Commerical driver rules apply I bet you will also need
Log Books
Vehicle Inspection report
Driver Medical Card
Safety equipment
Weigh scale stops for over 10001 pound rigs
Proof of Insurance
Vehicle Registration

Always happy when Big Brother is looking out for me. 
Duckdon


----------



## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Next will be a once a month TSA groping...


----------



## Rich Martin (Jun 10, 2011)

Since it looks like the law is almost a year old and if no one has had any trouble I am not sure if it is required. _I_ have not had to keep up with DOT laws in a few years but thought it was only needed if you were making money hauling. I had DOT numbers on a 1/2 ton service van that by law it did not need it, but our 1 ton and 2 1/2 ton did, our company just did all trucks. at one time some of the horse people I know put Not for Hire on their trucks and that kept them from having to get a DOT number. and maybe it is different in other states.


----------



## Udder Brudder (Jan 15, 2003)

Should this be done in the state you live in or here in Minnesota?

Thanks, Pat


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Udder Brudder said:


> Should this be done in the state you live in or here in Minnesota?
> 
> Thanks, Pat


From what I was told, each state handles the Unified Carrier Program which is required if you cross state lines but the Federal DOT # comes from the feds. Each State should have a federal office. Nothing was said about log books. They are only required when you are hauling for a fee. Dog trainers are transporting client dogs for training and or testing and not shipping. This is just an FYI because of 2 cases I became aware of this past weekend. Use the info as you choose.


----------



## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

Rich Martin said:


> Since it looks like the law is almost a year old and if no one has had any trouble I am not sure if it is required. _I_ have not had to keep up with DOT laws in a few years but thought it was only needed if you were making money hauling.


I was told that dog trucks had to have DOT numbers on the doors, etc. last year. However, on reading the requirements it is only required on trucks that are used for making money, comm'l vehicles. A friend was stopped with his dog truck in the Twin Cities. He refused to allow the DOT to inspect his truck and insisted it is his hobby truck and not used for comm'l purposes. He said that one of the officers continued to insist and finally the older of the two relented. He was not inspected and has not been stopped since. I was told to refuse the inspection and insist that the truck is for hobby and not comm'l. If we get a DOT number, then won't we be required to comply with all requirements including the log book, etc.?


----------



## PMG 131 (Jun 14, 2012)

MN is horrible for turining non-comercial vehicles into comercial. If you use your 10,000 lb + vehicle and trailer combo for anything one time that makes you money they call it a comercial vehicle and falls under the same laws as Semis. That cost me about $2k in fines few years ago. Picked up brand new farm pickup and gooseneck trailer, still DOT found things wrong.


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Been through this with my crews driving to jobsites. Best thing you can do is to NOT have any logo's advertising your company. Montana is similar. Run a rig without a company name and cruise past. Have stickers and logos stating you are a "business" you shall fall into "commercial vehicle" standards in some states. 

If you are a business and you stay in Montana for a specified period of time, you are required to buy Montana license plates. If I remember correctly, 30 days with a vehicle registered under a business name and you're supposed to buy plates. About 4-5 years ago had to add Montana plates to two rigs and display them along side Washington plates for a job that took a few months to complete. 

Otherwise, for non-business/commercial, some states require you to post, "Not for Hire/private" on the rig.

For this, another reason not to buy a one ton in some states. Guys rolling with the 1.5 ton / F-450's automatically become subject to weight stations due to the sign on the side of their trucks advertising their GVW... (or manhood size...however you want to look at it) LOL....


----------



## steve hoppas (Sep 6, 2010)

Hello everyone, I am A DOT State Trooper here in Texas, and from the horses mouth here goes the requirements. 

1- Your vehicle or combination of vehicles ( Truck and Trailer) Have a GVWR, actual weight or registerd weight of 10,001 lbs or more.

2- You travel across state line in commerial gaines (You are a pro trainer/ run a kennel), 

3- Now the you have fallen under the FMCSA your are required to register with the Federal DOT and get a DOT # and have it displayed on your rig. 

4- You are required a Medical card, a Log book, Fire extinguisher, road side flares or triangles, spare fuses

5-Your are required a Cab Card (Cargo insurence registered with either the state or the feds, since the dogs are not your)

6-Yes you are subject to random roadside inspection at any time, and NO we do not need probable cause to stop you, we don't have to have any reason other than you are subject to the FMSCA regulations weither if you know it or not.

7- unlike when you get a ticket in your car, when you get stopped and inspected and certin things are wrong you can be PARKED where ever you are for anywhere from 8 hrs to 24 hrs depending on the violation, or indefinitely until you obtain the required repairs or paperwork.

8- And Dog trailers are not legally registered as Farm trailers I have seen dozens of them at hunt test and field trials, just didn't want to be an jerk and call them out on it.

Now with that being said I am sure my inbox is going to blow up,


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

steve hoppas said:


> 2- You travel across state line in commerial gaines (You are a pro trainer/ run a kennel), ,


Steve

Thanks for the information. What should amateur handlers, who are driving chassis mounts, do when stopped?

A friend of mine, Robbie Bickley, was stopped in Iowa, on his way to a judging assignment, and issued a ticket. I think Robbie paid the ticket rather than going through the brain damage of having to travel from Texas to Iowa several times to resolve the issue.

​Ted


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Ted Shih said:


> Steve
> 
> Thanks for the information. What should amateur handlers, who are driving chassis mounts, do when stopped?




Perhaps print out the guidance from the FMCSA where it says that Part 383 does not apply to drivers of recreational vehicles? http://fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.3&guidence=Y

States, can, however extend their own CDL requirements to recreational vehicles, so it would not be a bad idea to see what any state in which you will be driving the chassis mount says.


----------



## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

This is from the fmcsa website. It tells you if you need a number or not...

Use the interactive guide in the middle. The step by step doesnt register you, it just tells you if you need a number or not. It can go either way.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/online-registration/onlineregdescription.htm


----------



## Don Lietzau (Jan 8, 2011)

PHG stated "Best thing you can do is to NOT have any logo's advertising your company. Montana is similar. Run a rig without a company name and cruise past." Don't know about Montana but I was educated about Idaho last June. Don't cross over into Idaho.............. Been there and done that and if you get hooked it will cost you a couple grand to get everything up to par. I was running a 1 ton F350 dulley pulling boats for commerical purpose, which according to the "commerical cops" is a commerical vehicle AND a private vehicle so if your hauling dogs, for clients and a commerical venture is in progress you will need to cover the commerical truck laws with the exception you don't need a commerical driver's license endorsment. Good luck all. Like I said, I really hate all the Big Brother BS. Duckdon


----------



## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Thanks for posting that Mr. Hoppas. I would like to point out that there is no way for a LEO to verify that I/we are operating a commercial kennel even if you've crossed a state line. IF a trooper was to pull me over for a level 1 inspection my point of view to him would be that yes they are all my dogs! Now to be honest in all my years of law enforcement I've never seen any CV stops being made on anything but what is obviously a CMV. There's plenty of big rigs to pick on out there and someone who knows what they are doing and is genuinly working a DOT assignment is not going to waste time stopping a dog trailer. Now what happens in other states I obviously can't speak to but just as in dog traininig, there are cops everywhere who see things differently and maybe try to take things too far.


----------



## steve hoppas (Sep 6, 2010)

Pulling all your asvertisements off the truck will help you fly under the radar. Am's if your are advertising your kennel, your are doing so for commercial gain either directly or indirectly (selling stud fees and pups or training)
Oh and this is nothing new these laws have been on the books since the late 80's.


----------



## steve hoppas (Sep 6, 2010)

Have I ever stopped a dog truck set up for an inspection No, but that doesn't mean the next officer won't. Being under the FMSCA regulations is being under regulation and you are always subject to getting stopped and inspected at any time. I was not posting the information to piss anyone off. But better to learn here then the side of the road in another state then your home one and being put out of service until you are in compliance.


----------



## dexdoolittle (Apr 26, 2008)

Scott Dewey got stopped in Missouri leaving my place in Dec of '10 with kennels I was selling him. LEO said he had to been up to Commercial standards. They are required to hold you until you meet standards, no matter what time it is or how many dogs you are carrying. It delayed his trip home 3 hrs. This can be very difficult on Sunday night. So you decide. Steve has been gracious enough to point out the Law, it is up to you to decide if you want to follow them...


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

steve hoppas said:


> Am's if your are advertising your kennel, your are doing so for commercial gain either directly or indirectly (selling stud fees and pups or training)


Not according to FMSCA regulations. An amateur having a kennel name on the truck is no different than having a vanity plate, monogram or Good Sam Club bumper sticker. Sure it may be a red flag to a cop--just as a red Ferrari might be--but it is no violation to have a truck so adorned. Unless you are hauling hazardous materials, you are not a CMV under FMSCA.


----------



## steve hoppas (Sep 6, 2010)

Doublehaul, Advertising in it self is not a violation or proof that you are a connerial rig, just evidence that you are a commercial operation. Then it's up to you to prove to the judge that you give all your puppies away and don't charge charge for stud fees or for training/boarding or sell or rep a product.


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

steve hoppas said:


> Doublehaul, Advertising in it self is not a violation or proof that you are a connerial rig, just evidence that you are a commercial operation. Then it's up to you to prove to the judge that you give all your puppies away and don't charge charge for stud fees or for training/boarding or sell or rep a product.


Actually, the state has the burden of proof. Been there, done that.

If you want to get a CDL, keep log books and medical records, etc., that would be the safest and easiest way to go, especially with everyone searching for new ways to increase their revenues these days. However, it is not required under the law to do so. 

I was responding to Ted's question on what one might do to not have to deal with the hassle--you can't protect yourself from corrupt, arbitrary or ignorant cops--but having the guidance from the applicable subpart with you may get away pretty quickly with a reasonable but mistaken trooper.


----------



## steve hoppas (Sep 6, 2010)

Doublehaul, 
I am not going to argue with you, if you want to live on the edge and risk it, thats your call. I have 10 years experience with this so everything I have posted on this is the truth and fact. I deal with people like you everyday on the side of the highway, next thing you are going to tell me the sky isn't blue. Good luck with keeping your head in the sand.

Oh and CDL law is completely different then FMSCA.

If anyone has a question about their rig and operation email me, you may not like the answer but at least you will know..


----------



## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

steve hoppas said:


> Doublehaul,
> I am not going to argue with you, if you want to live on the edge and risk it, thats your call. I have 10 years experience with this so everything I have posted on this is the truth and fact. I deal with people like you everyday on the side of the highway, next thing you are going to tell me the sky isn't blue. Good luck with keeping your head in the sand.
> 
> Oh and CDL law is completely different then FMSCA.
> ...


Be careful Trooper offering to much legal advice...I've been an officer for over 10 and there's always grey areas.


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

steve hoppas said:


> I deal with people like you everyday on the side of the highway, next thing you are going to tell me the sky isn't blue. .


And I have dealt with enough like you in my life--one in fact who was eventually reprimanded for making the same 'logical' leaps that you are now making. I am just passing along what the FMSCA says. You always have the option to abuse your authority to make it what you want it to be but you are not always going to get away with it. The law is fairly simple. You can make tortured hypos to justify writing that ticket but when the facts come to light in court you might wish you had not done so.


----------



## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

Ok, let's not let this thread get to personal attacks.

The information on both sides has been presented. Individuals can make their own decision as to which advice to follow.


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Ted Shih said:


> Steve
> 
> Thanks for the information. What should amateur handlers, who are driving chassis mounts, do when stopped?
> 
> ...


Not sure about Iowa/Texas but, GVW is usually the reason. Cops know a 1 Ton F-350 / 3500 etc are/will be under weight and are usually purchased for private use. When you buy a real "Chassis truck", these are the F-450 / 4500 550 / 5500/Top Kick/Grizzly's are sold mainly for commercial use and are sold without a bed. These will be targeted more heavily by commercial vehicle enforcement officers. "Most" recreational use vehicles in the 1.5 ton range come with a camper attached which makes it pretty obvious it is not a commercial vehicle. 

Again, to avoid pull overs, put a sticker or magnet on the door which reads, "RV, Not for Hire".


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Cops know a 1 Ton F-350 / 3500 etc are/will be under weight and are usually purchased for private use.


While it doesn't apply to the original question on the FMSCA and its applicability to private vehicles, in states that have different tags for different weights, I have seen folks get into trouble for this. In my state a plain old F-350 with a bed can get by with one tag. However, with a chassis mount full of dogs, it could well be overweight for the same tag. I do know folks who were weighed and ticketed for this, so definitely check to make sure your tag is appropriate for the weight of the vehicle in your state.




> Again, to avoid pull overs, put a sticker or magnet on the door which reads, "RV, Not for Hire".


I may register "Not For Hire Retrievers" as my kennel name


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

DoubleHaul said:


> While it doesn't apply to the original question on the FMSCA and its applicability to private vehicles, in states that have different tags for different weights, I have seen folks get into trouble for this. In my state a plain old F-350 with a bed can get by with one tag. However, with a chassis mount full of dogs, it could well be overweight for the same tag. I do know folks who were weighed and ticketed for this, so definitely check to make sure your tag is appropriate for the weight of the vehicle in your state.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wouldn't that simply be a ticket for exceeding the registered GVW for which the rig is licensed?


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Wouldn't that simply be a ticket for exceeding the registered GVW for which the rig is licensed?


Yes--nothing to do with the FMSCA question. It can be pricey though.


----------



## tim bonnema (Jul 3, 2010)

Paul 
I drive a F350 diesel. GRWR is 11800 lb. I am required to stop at all weigh stations. Fill out log books etc. It is a company truck with the logo on the side and a dot number.


----------



## Lonny Taylor (Jun 22, 2004)

OK been reading this thread and I am a little concerned. I have a F-350 with a 12 hole chasis mount and I do have a logo on back of my truck. I live in Kansas and they don't tend to pull over vehicles like mine in this state. But I do travel out of state for events and winter/summer training. Is this federal? and where do I check on this for my state? Dont want to be pulled over while traveling out of state. Wow sure dont want to have to be pulling into weigh stations and keeping all these logs. You know I pay alot for tags as it is and this seems like another way for govt to raise more money and end up causing me to pass it along to my customers. Or I just tell them to kiss my rump and I stay home more and dont travel. 

LT


----------



## cpayne (Feb 22, 2003)

I've been stopped for two level 1 inspections in a F250 and 18 hole trailer. Once in New Mexico and another time in North Carolina. Also have to purchase permits in New Mexico. Be careful trying to cheat your logbook as they have ways to double check your accuracy, saw a guy in New Mexico at the Port of Entry get parked for 10 hours as his wasn't correct.


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

tim bonnema said:


> Paul
> I drive a F350 diesel. GRWR is 11800 lb. I am required to stop at all weigh stations. Fill out log books etc. It is a company truck with the logo on the side and a dot number.


We're not there yet here in Wa.. For local deliveries our guys don't have to do it either-Last workplace we had a "Conventional" with airbrakes that did not require a CDL or log-book to drive. It was a Ford L-9000 24' flat bed automatic.


----------



## Paul Brown (Sep 1, 2011)

This past goose season, lots of goose hunting outfitters and recreational hunters were stopped under this very law. Hauling their decoys in trailers all 'stickered' up was what got 'em. This was in Iowa, Minnesota, and the Dakotas. The goose hunting forums were full of these threads, so apparently, it is becoming a more common occurrence.


----------



## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

DoubleHaul said:


> Not according to FMSCA regulations. An amateur having a kennel name on the truck is no different than having a vanity plate, monogram or Good Sam Club bumper sticker. Sure it may be a red flag to a cop--just as a red Ferrari might be--but it is no violation to have a truck so adorned. Unless you are hauling hazardous materials, you are not a CMV under FMSCA.


Tens of thousands of CMV do not haul HAZMAT every day.To determine if you are a CMV , refer to Steve's posts .HAZMAT requires finger printing and written testing every 5 years.And I can assure you that the Amatuers who tick off the wrong cop will be greeted in court with a copy of recently filed taxes(DA gets it). If you have anything dog related on it ,you just open up the check book .
3 million mile safe driver here , pull double trailers almost every day ,HAZMAT and TANKER endorsed too.Pulled a RADIOACTIVE load to Boston Mass. today I live it. It ain't easy. Call up Hound Hauler , if he is still around . Delivers dogs all over the lower 48 .DOT numbers on his truck , you betcha ... And look up livestock regs while your at it, telling you when to feed and water... And ALASKA has its own regs too......HIgh blood pressure- diabetetic - have fun with your physical.Overweight- a sign of sleep apnea - whole slew os BS with that.... And I believe by 2014 the medical cards will be required to renew your commercial driver's license... Oh , you don't have one ? Ca ching- driving without a license.....$$$$ for the state....Or get stopped at the scale house by the IRS - they dip your fuel tank to make sure you are not saving $$ by running the cheaper off road diesel.. Cheaper because of no highway tax. defrauding the IRS....Deep doggy doo doo for you.....And all it takes is one trooper in one state to get the ball rolling .....You can be ticketed for not having your bunk made up. Loose debris in cab is dangerous !! Look up CSA while I have your attention . Drivers have a distinct driving record now.Everything you are cited for goes on that record .Its all about the revenue for big brother. You might be an amateur according to the AKC - but you are a cash cow to Uncle Sam


----------



## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

About 5 yrs ago the company I worked for at the time had me and another guy rent a couple of u-hauls in Oregon so that we could pick up a bunch of office furniture, file cabinets, etc... from a bunch of stores that were closing there to bring to stores in WA. We pulled into a weigh station in Salem, not really knowing if we needed to go through or not, and got red-lighted. The DOT officer, a pretty, young lady probably not more than an hour and a half out of training comes out and asks me to grab my medical card and log book and meet her in the office. Ummm, what? We go in and tell her we don't have any of that because we (I) are not commercial drivers. She asks what we're hauling and for whom. (Why she thought/knew we were working for a company in a u-haul I don't know). 

She informs us that because we are being paid (we were salaried employees who's regular positions did not include driving trucks or hauling anything) by our employer, we are considered commercial drivers and must have the medical card, log books etc... and since we didn't, she was parking us for 10 hours. To say I was pissed is an understatement but I didn't show her and tried to reason with her. She called someone else (at another weigh station I think) and talked to them a while and still stuck to her guns. I have since been told by numerous people in law enforcement and otherwise that she was in the wrong but that's neither here nor there now.

My point is, no matter what the laws are, there can be a lot of interpretation between officers on their application so best to be pro active in learning what's required and be prepared when hitting the road, particularly across state lines.


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

John Kelder said:


> Tens of thousands of CMV do not haul HAZMAT every day.


Agreed. My point was the CMV rules are based on being engaged in commerce, unless you are hauling HAZMAT, which trumps all. So, if you are not otherwise a CMV under the regs, if you happen to be hauling HAZMAT for giggles, you are automatically a CMV.


----------



## 3blackdogs (Aug 23, 2004)

Steve, thanks for posting this information. I appreciate it. There have been a couple of these incidents in Wisconsin, at least two pro trucks that I know of have had this little chat on the interstate. I know for a fact that one of the pros now has a shiny DOT number on his truck. 

In my experience, it doesn't matter how much in the right you think you are, the law usually wins the roadside debate, right wrong or indifferent. I have a chassis mount on a 2500HD, so I'm not particularly concerned...and hey, all those dogs ARE my dogs...and this activity is just wallet-sucking recreation, right?

Forewarned is forearmed.


----------



## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

How do we "prove" to the DOT Officials that we are not a commercial operation when we are pulled over? Do we carry a copy of our most recent tax return to show we make no money from "dogs" and shows how we do make a living? Do we carry a copy of our training invoice to show this is a "wallet-sucking recreation" (thank you 3blackdogs ) or are we just setting up the pro trainers for a stop/fines.

Our dog truck is a 2004 F350 with 136,000 miles on it. The low mileage (IMO) suggests that we aren't doing anything commercial.

When I look at the information on the DOT website or go to the federal website, the words I see are "commercial", "name of your company", and other references to a money-making business. I also read that "recreational vehicles" are exempt.

Should we contact a State Representative to make him/her aware of what is happening or will that just cause more problems?

On the fuel check that was mentioned in another post, we were stopped in MN a couple of weeks ago by MN DOT to check the diesel color. The Officer was very nice, didn't mention a thing about DOT #'s and gave us a slip in case we were stopped again for a fuel check. This was the first time we've ever had a fuel check.


----------



## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

383.93 >
  
 
 Related Links 

 Disclaimer
 Interpretation
Help
 
 *Subpart F - Vehicle groups and endorsements* 

§ 383.91Commercial motor vehicle groups. (a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows: (1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.(3) Small Vehicle (Group C)—Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).

Federal Requirements


----------



## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

HiRollerlabs said:


> How do we "prove" to the DOT Officials that we are not a commercial operation when we are pulled over?


It is tough to prove a negative. And, it the burden of proof is not yours. I have had only one issue which I referenced. Usually if you get stopped, it is enough to state that since this is your personal recreational vehicle and not used for commercial purposes, that you are not subject to the FMCSA. Most folks will have bigger fish to fry.



> Our dog truck is a 2004 F350 with 136,000 miles on it. The low mileage (IMO) suggests that we aren't doing anything commercial.


 That is not a bad idea. couldn't hurt.




> Should we contact a State Representative to make him/her aware of what is happening or will that just cause more problems?


I can't see how that would hurt if you have a friendly one. If it becomes a big issue, the retriever world is so small, it would be worthwhile to join up with the lobbying groups of the RV industry. If everyone with a Class A motorhome is going be rousted in certain jurisdictions, those folks are going to be all over it, since they have their entire industry at stake.

On the fuel check that was mentioned in another post, we were stopped in MN a couple of weeks ago by MN DOT to check the diesel color. The Officer was very nice, didn't mention a thing about DOT #'s and gave us a slip in case we were stopped again for a fuel check. This was the first time we've ever had a fuel check.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Merlin (Sep 1, 2005)

I would say that dogs are "personal property" and would therefore be exempt under standard rule: (3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

So by that rule, if you have a box or trailer hauling personal property, I believe even if you were cited you have grounds for dismissal in court.


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Lonny Taylor said:


> OK been reading this thread and I am a little concerned. I have a F-350 with a 12 hole chasis mount and I do have a logo on back of my truck. I live in Kansas and they don't tend to pull over vehicles like mine in this state. But I do travel out of state for events and winter/summer training. Is this federal? and where do I check on this for my state? Dont want to be pulled over while traveling out of state. Wow sure dont want to have to be pulling into weigh stations and keeping all these logs. You know I pay alot for tags as it is and this seems like another way for govt to raise more money and end up causing me to pass it along to my customers. Or I just tell them to kiss my rump and I stay home more and dont travel.
> 
> LT


This link may help some of you. 
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/cvo/index.html

Page 9 is especially helpful as it lists those rquirements needed while operating a commercial vehicle

It is from MN DOT but applies to Federal reg's. 

A bit more info: Any pro with a rig over 10,000 lbs is most likely going to require a DOT # and if they go state to state register with the Uniform Carrier Program. No CDL is needed if you are under 26,000lbs. Some basic requirements will apply like a medical card, fire extinguisher, proof of insurance, road warning triangles and possibly a log book and annual vehicle inspection.

If you are an Am and none of the following apply:*

"DO THE COMMERCIAL VEHICLE REGULATIONS APPLY TO YOU?"​*1. Do you declare prize money as incomefrom a business for tax purposes? 2. Are the costs for the underlying activities deducted as a business expense for taxpurposes? 3. Do you accept products and / or money for advertising a sponsor? 4. Is the transport vehicle being used in the furtherance of a commercial operation?​If you answered​*“NO” *to *ALL *questions (1-4),, you are not in the furtherance​of a commercial operation, and do not require a DOT #.
FYI, I was directed to this info by a person in inforcement in the regional office of the DOT in MN. and will be getting more from the head today or tomorrow.​​


----------



## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Golddogs said:


> will be getting more from the head today or tomorrow.​


good place for reading DOT codes..


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

For those furthering a business, i.e dog trainers, go to http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov and type 390.3 in the search function. This should spell out everything you need to do to comply with the DOT. 395.1 will help define hours worked.


For all of the Am's with big rig's, go to http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov and search for what defines a commercial carrier. Tt will spell out if you do or do not need to follow the DOT reg's.

This info comes from the head of enforcement for the MN region of the DOT. He suggests eveyone who my be affectd by this go to these sites and also contact your specific state DOT.


----------



## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Golddogs said:


> For those furthering a business, i.e dog trainers, go to http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov and type 390.3 in the search function. This should spell out everything you need to do to comply with the DOT.
> 
> 
> For all of the Am's with big rig's, go to http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov and type in 395.1, and it will spell out if you do or do not need to follow the DOT reg's.
> ...


395.1 has nothing to do with non-commercial. It is concerned with hours of operations, etc of commerical drivers.


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks Dave, I messed up from my notes and have corrected it.


----------



## Jeff Kolanski (Dec 9, 2005)

So if I am understanding all of this correctly (reading this thread, FMCSA, and UCR websites); if a truck and dog box weighs over 10,001 lbs. it needs a USDOT number if you have your kennel name/logo on it. But if there is no logo a USDOT number is not needed? Is that correct? And if you are crossing state lines, regardless for a hunt test or pulling a camper with the family, you need to be registered with the UCR if in fact I need a DOT number.


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

I just obtained DOT #s and accompaning BS for my work/personal vehicle. I had to have a DOT audit which checks everything. If its for personal use in my state and NOT in any form of commerce you should be ok. That said the weekend hobby car racer or Grandma selling quilts at a craft fair and both are in the RV are sadley commerce and subject to commercial regs. Each state is a bit different and may or may not follow federal regs. I had to get a CDL, Drivers exam, Adder to my works commercial ins, file IFTA fuel reports, follow weekly time sheets or log bogs when appropriate and get a federal truck AND trailer inspection. I figure I have spent 40 + hours and over a grand this year. The best thing is to have the truck naked (no kennel name or sponser) on the truck or trailer. That looks like advertising and subject to commerce. I di ask the Missouri DOT inspector why the dont go after the landscape or plumbers and so on. She said that technically they could but frankly dont have the manpower to do so. 

I guess what I am trying to say is you may not ever get stopped but if you do you may be in for a tough go if they wanted to. One thing I will say is for the dog trainers with big trucks and trailers SHOULD have to comply with the law that every other business person does. Just as you have to fill out corp taxes you should have a safe and legal set up. A 12,000 plus pound chasis mount pulling a 10,000 lb trailer is a serious deal and should not be taken lightly. BTW if the GCVW of you truck is over 26,000 lbs as most duallies are and you pull a trailer that is rated for 10,000 lbs or more you will have to have a class A CDL. If caught not correct not only be faced with some big $$ fines you will have to wait for a CDL class A driver to leave. 

One last note that to me is BS is Grandpa with severe vision issues, is a diabectic and has frequent seizures can hop behing the wheel of a 35,000 lbs RV pulling a 20,000lb trailer and does not have to have anything nor stop at a scale house. Some scary Shiznit I think.


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Golddogs said:


> This link may help some of you.
> http://www.dot.state.mn.us/cvo/index.html
> 
> Page 9 is especially helpful as it lists those rquirements needed while operating a commercial vehicle
> ...



The pro truck will need a class E driver license which used to be like a chauffeur license. Most newer duallies or over 26,000 gcvw and if pulling the trailer over 10,000 gvw will require a Class A.


----------



## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Lastly dont think after you get done with a DOT # you are done. In about 60-90 days you will be getting a notice regarding you new DOT# and that you will be required to have a onsite DOT audit. They will then go over all the stuff you are not doing correctly and have 10 days to correct it. BE FOREWARNED.


----------



## Jeff Kolanski (Dec 9, 2005)

Alright, after being on hold for 35 minutes with the FMCSA this is what I found out; ANY, I will repeat, ANY vehicle weighing over 10,001 lbs needs a USDOT number, regardless if it is for business or personal use. And, as discussed earlier in this thread, if you are crossing state lines you MUST also register with the UCR. Take this info as you all wish but this came directly from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration this afternoon.


----------

