# Somebody tell me about dog food....



## Guest (May 16, 2011)

We've been feeding Purina Pro Plan Performance for 12 years now. I know there are lots of great foods out there now. We've stuck with Purina for a variety of reasons -- the most important reason being that it's done really well across a large variety and volume of dogs.

We feed 40-60 bags a month. We frequently have folks, store managers, etc. trying to switch us to their favorite brands. Our local feed store wants us to switch to Diamond, but my heart can't handle the aflatoxin (sp?) issue from a few years ago. However, it would mean we only have to drive five miles to get food. 

Part of what I'm dealing with is that we had a (VERY) longstanding relationship with our local Petco, which recently closed. Next closest ones are 45-60 mins away and those store managers couldn't give a flip about working with us like the previous one did.

I've been trying to find a closer retailer to try to get our price down. No luck yet, but a few calls out today that I haven't heard back from.

With the petco 200# program and buy 10, get one free (now gone) program, we were saving 20% off the bat. (Maybe that's why ours closed). 

It's been a big hit to the pocketbook and I'm just trying to see if there's another brand of food I can trust that is more accessible to us and at a better price.

The Pro Plan kennel program doesn't come close to the price we were getting.

I'm just really afraid to make such a huge switch after being happy for so long.

Can any of you recommend a food that's comparable to (or better than) Pro Plan Performance? And that's more affordable?

I do NOT want to be cheap. Just trying to be smart. $320-$480/mo more for food right now is somewhat of a motivator...

I'd especially like to hear from folks who feed a LOT of dogs, monitor stool volume and conditioning closely...

Thanks.

-Kristie


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

I'm surprised you don't have direct delivery straight from the company.


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## lizard55033 (Mar 10, 2008)

Kristie I know alot of people that stick with Pro Plan only because of the perks from the kennel program with vet bills too; not because its a superior food... Pro Plan changed their formula (move corn up)while keeping the price the same or raising it.

I do have to tell you though that Diamond has done a complete turn around since their issues from a few years ago. I switched my dogs from Pro Plan Performance to the Diamond Extreme Athlete and have notice that my dogs look better, recover a bit faster, easier on the tummies too.

I'm saving at least $10 per bag with the Diamond.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Kristie
I am feeding 50 English Setters and 8 Labs. I recently (Oct) returned to DeCoverly Kennels (www.decoverlykennels.com) as the general manager. The setters are now eating Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice , I have solid stools and usually only two per dog per day.Clean up is a dream!!! The labs and moms/pups are on Extreme Athlete, and doing equally well. With both make sure you don't over feed!!!! The setters had been self feeding on junk food (Red Flannel, ughh) , so when I started feeding the Diamond Naturals, I continued to self feed, I had loose stools and went through a pile of food. We are now feeding rations and everyone is fat , stools are great, coats are great. The girls are getting 2-3 c a day, the boys 3-5 c.
I am paying $27.50 for 40 lbs of C&R and $29 for 40lb of EA.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Kristie Wilder said:


> ....With the petco 200# program and buy 10, get one free (now gone) program, we were saving 20% off the bat.....


Eukanuba, does a free bag every 240# purchased, if you are in the breeder program. http://www.breedsmartpartners.com/programDetail.do


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

kjrice said:


> I'm surprised you don't have direct delivery straight from the company.


We can, but the price is higher than what we can work out with retailers...


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## Laura McCaw (Jul 28, 2010)

I don't have a HUGE amount of dogs, but we do have 6 and we feed Diamond. Our 80 lb male does great on just 3.5 cups a day. All have nice firm stools and all their coats look great as well. We did switch from PPP about 2 months ago because for some reason after our big boy got neutered, his stools got runny and our vet recommended a different food maybe and when we did the switch, it worked out great and it seems as if they all look better as well as nice stools.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Kristie, I remember the Diamond recall, but have to say that ime, those bad situations usually make for an even stronger company in the end. It was ONE LAZY QA/QC employee who caused all that grief from what I understand. They've since changed their SOP for QC/QA, and I'd be confident to feed their foods if that's what I fed. As it is, I do recommend the Kirkland line (which Diamond makes) and they do all the manufacturing now for Canidae-- which is what I have fed for years-- and I have no issues w/ that either. I think they are a good company, have some good products, but I'm just one of those if it aint broke, don't fix it folks, so have stuck w/ canidae for now. I buy 5, get 1 free w/ Canidae but it's still a pretty $ food.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

I switched from a long time Purina customer to Diamond Naturals after the "shreads" issue and the price increases for economic reasons. I am very happy with their product. My only issue now is that it is getting so popular at Tractor Supply, that sometimes they run out, so I have to be sure and stock up when its available.

Plus Diamond Naturals is rated 4 stars on dogfood advisor which was a pleasant surprise to me.




windycanyon said:


> Kristie, I remember the Diamond recall, but have to say that ime, those bad situations usually make for an even stronger company in the end. It was ONE LAZY QA/QC employee who caused all that grief from what I understand. They've since changed their SOP for QC/QA, and I'd be confident to feed their foods if that's what I fed. As it is, I do recommend the Kirkland line (which Diamond makes) and they do all the manufacturing now for Canidae-- which is what I have fed for years-- and I have no issues w/ that either. I think they are a good company, have some good products, but I'm just one of those if it aint broke, don't fix it folks, so have stuck w/ canidae for now. I buy 5, get 1 free w/ Canidae but it's still a pretty $ food.


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## steve schreiner (Jun 15, 2009)

Kristie Wilder said:


> We feed 40-60 bags a month. We frequently have folks, store managers, etc. trying to switch us to their favorite brands. * Our local feed store wants us to switch to Diamond, but my heart can't handle the aflatoxin (sp?) issue from a few years ago. * However, it would mean we only have to drive five miles to get food.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> ...


Purina must think they are OK since Diamond makes a product for them and hauals it to their plant in Colorado..Steve S PS check out the complete line of products..some don't have the corn ( naturals) if you are concerned with that issue...


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## J. Walker (Feb 21, 2009)

Not to be the bearer of bad news but Diamond recalled several of their cat foods late 2009. Yes, I know it's cat food but to me, the point is that after their big recall in 2006, you'd think they'd make darn sure nothing got out the door prior to meticulous testing.

I fed the 4Health Performance food sold at Tractor Supply. It is a "premium" food manufactured by Diamond and very similar to their Naturals line. After two months, my pup still had large, loose stools, his coat condition declined, and he lost weight. There are probably some dogs that do well on Diamond but my dog wasn't one of them.


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

I have yet to get much of any good feedback about Diamond, at least relative to all the negative feedback... So it's out of the running.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

I think if you want to post up recall information, discuss them all...there have been several over the last few years.

Iams, Eukanuba, etc. etc...even Purina was impacted by the 2007 Melamine recall.

http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/dog-food-recalls.html

I am just glad it is an issue now with full disclosure when identified.. a few years ago, dog owners suffered and lost animals, and dog food manufacturers conducted business as usual


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## prairiewind (Feb 17, 2009)

I feed 16 dogs year round, do yourself a big favor, if you switch, do not buy a pallet but try it out on several dogs, I tried the natural route and went back to pro plan


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

prairiewind said:


> I feed 16 dogs year round, do yourself a big favor, if you switch, do not buy a pallet but try it out on several dogs, I tried the natural route and went back to pro plan


I agree.  Thanks!


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

We have fed Diamond before and after the recall. John and I learned as much as we could about the recall, and concluded that the Diamond was likely to be as safe or safer than any competing product.

We fed Diamond green (Adult Premium) for years and still use it as the default food at our boarding kennel (i.e. if owners don't bring food for their dogs). It appears to have better palatability than many other brands. This is a big deal for me in boarding--we want the dogs to eat.

We feed the retrievers Extreme Athlete. I like feeding less and cleaning less!

I like the Diamond label better than Pro Plan's. Better quality ingredients IMO. And because my feed store moves a lot of it, we know it is fresh and has not sat on the shelf a long time.

The down side of the Diamond is that stools are somewhat looser than with Pro Plan, Euk, etc. It's been like that for years. I think they just don't put in as much beet pulp.

Amy Dahl


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## D Osborn (Jul 19, 2004)

I buy Fromm wholesale, a group of us go in and order once or twice a month, it is delivered to the house that can store it. We buy breeder bags. I also know that the Summit does the same with other brands.
I know of a couple of kennels who use it, and while I don't feed it to Carbon, I have several dogs who are pets and do quite well on it.


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## Labs R Us (Jun 25, 2010)

I know you've mentioned that Diamond is not in the running...but just my 2 cents is that my two guys are really doing well on Diamond Natural 60+ which is chicken and rice. I'm able to get 40# for $25.


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## Dan Tongen (Nov 19, 2005)

Have you thought about Native? I switched about 1 year ago with great results

Dan


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## LESTER LANGLEY (Jun 12, 2008)

I feed 15 to 20 dogs a day on average. I switched to Black Gold about a year ago, after talking with Lanse. I've been very happy with it. I have pallets delivered to the kennel.


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

LESTER LANGLEY said:


> I feed 15 to 20 dogs a day on average. I switched to Black Gold about a year ago, after talking with Lanse. I've been very happy with it. I have pallets delivered to the kennel.


We have a client that's friends with a local distributor and he brought out a couple of bags. But I looked at the ingredients up front and it looked like junk? Which formula are you feeding? All the main ingredients in the two bags I got (one was a trainer's formula and the other was I forget) were "meal" and filler type stuff.

These are the first ingredients of their PERFORMANCE formula (via their website):
Meat Meal, Corn Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Wheat, Poultry Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols a Source of Vitamin E), Chicken By Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Liver Flavor


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## S.Miles (Apr 6, 2011)

Kristie,
I used to feed Pro Plan Performance, but switched a little over a year ago because the price kept going up. I switched to Extreme Dog Fuel, my dogs coat has never looked better, my vet always asks me what I'm feeding. A 40# bag is around $28. Not sure if it's available where you are, but it is definitely a quality feed and very comparable to the Pro Plan.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Kristie, typed out a nice long pm to you only to get a message saying your pm box is full Typing is a chore to me. Wasted 15 minutes typing 3 paragraphs


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

Steve Shaver said:


> Kristie, typed out a nice long pm to you only to get a message saying your pm box is full Typing is a chore to me. Wasted 15 minutes typing 3 paragraphs


See my sig line. I save all my emails and pm's get lost... [email protected]. I've kept it full for a long time now, sorry... I was losing important messages and contacts because it only kept them for so long...

-K


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

S.Miles said:


> Kristie,
> I used to feed Pro Plan Performance, but switched a little over a year ago because the price kept going up. I switched to Extreme Dog Fuel, my dogs coat has never looked better, my vet always asks me what I'm feeding. A 40# bag is around $28. Not sure if it's available where you are, but it is definitely a quality feed and very comparable to the Pro Plan.


X2, and Jay the owner is in the game. Give him a call. I'm sure he will provide some samples.


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## Dooley (Feb 1, 2011)

Switched from Purina Pro Plan to Eukanuba Premium 30/20 - seems to be eliminating the problem of soft stools and itchiness. I was a user of Pro Plan for 25 years!
So far so good with the Eukanuba......but $70 a bag, WOW!!!


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## dexdoolittle (Apr 26, 2008)

You should try a food named Connelly's REd Mills. It is the top producing Ireland based company. They jumped into the states last year. Scott Dewey went to Ireland and basically designed the food he wanted to feed. No corn, no allergens, plenty of extra vitamines and nutrients. A lot of the new pros in the midwest are using it. You can call Scott if you would like 319-290-0350 or Tyler Spring who is their sales manager 515-689-4194.


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## Clay Rogers (Jul 8, 2008)

I feed alot of dogs also. Go through about 30 bags a month. Called the local distributor in my area for Purina PP and was hoping to save some money. Distributor said I would only save about $3/bag ordering two pallets a month. I like PP, my dogs love it. I just wished there was some way to control the cost. Thinking hard about switching to another food myself, just scared of the outcome.


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

I've been feeding my dogs Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete while in training and hunting and then Diamond Naturals Large Breed when not in training or hunting and they have been doing very very well on it. Previously I fed them Pro Plan or Eukanuba and they did fine on both of those foods also. I was worried about the food recalls and even had a friend whose dogs died from eating the Diamond food during the recalls. After doing some research and comparing the ingredients I decided to make the switch. For every 3 bags of Euk I purchased I could buy 4 almost 5 bags of the Diamond Naturals at TSC. My dogs stools are solid and firm, they recover from a hard days of training faster and thier coats are shinny and thick in the winter. The only problem I have with the Diamond Extreme Athlete is that it gives one of my dogs unbelievable gas. I've had HAZMAT teams roll up to my house after one of his episodes. When he is on the Large Breed feed no problems. I think it is the high Fat content in the Extreme Athlete that does it to him. Stools are fine though.


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## Rip Shively (Sep 5, 2007)

As Dex said I would take a look at the Connelly's Red Mills food. I have fed Enhance 30/20 for about 2.5 years but my distributor stopped carrying it. I recently made the switch to Connelly's based largely on the positive things a local Pro had to say about the food.


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## Centerfield Retrievers (Jan 28, 2007)

I think it's important for people to realize that Diamond carries two lines under their name and that the Naturals do not contain corn, wheat or soy. Reminding also that the corn and wheat were the main issues regarding past recalls. I have fed PPP, Euk, Royal Canin, Enhance, Native, Canidae, Nutro, Eagle Pack, Black Gold, and numerous holistic brands over the past 25 years. I now have my dogs on Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice and they look great. Even I can't believe I'm saying that!  Like others I stayed clear of Diamond for many years but to anyone who may think this way I recommend looking at it again.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Kristie,
FWIW, I feed my whole kennel Diamonds Naturals Chicken and Rice. Have for years. Good quality food, good price( i get it delivered for 21.00/40# +tax). they do well on it, easy to switch from whatever theyve come in on. My own performance dogs, eat the Euk PP 30/20. Happy with both, but for the amt I feed in the kennel, I like the Diamond C/R. Only complaint I hve is my own dogs that do eat it ,sleep in the house and for some the gas is horrendous...


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone...


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

Kristie,

I used to feed PP performance until a couple of years ago when my chocolates turned orange and got really dry coats.

Switched to PMI Exclusive--PMI is Purina Mills, the part that didn't get sold to Nestle with the pet foods. Appears to be the original ProPlan formula. Available at all Purina dealers:

www.pminutrition.com

Cheaper by the bag than PP so I am actually spending less than I did with the breeder coupons from Purina.

Dogs look GREAT on it, maintain good coat, skin and condition.

The trainers I work with told me about it--they switched from a holistic feed to this when they realized the client dogs on PMI exclusive looked better than their personal dogs on the holistic food.

Meredith


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## wendelb68 (Dec 2, 2009)

Kristie, 

Look into Native dog food. Check out the ingredients and you will be impressed. Also a friend of mine is a pro trainer and she met with Euk and Native and Native was willing to work with her to a much greater degree.


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## crp66 (May 6, 2009)

I switched to PMI Exclusive from Purina Pro Plan as well. Only two dogs, both look great and have lots of energy. Stools are compact as well. Both my dogs are inside dogs (when they aren't on a trainer's truck) and I haven't had any gas problems. I highly recommend looking into it. I can buy 7 and get one free @ my local CoOp.


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## Burnt Oak Retrievers (Sep 25, 2009)

We have 6 dogs on Exclusive as well and have been very happy with it. Our co-op does buy 6 get 1 free.


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

PMI Exclusive gives a free bag for every six purchased.
Professor


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

I fed euk and pro plan. I switched to Native two years ago with three dogs. Very happy with stools,coat, and amount fed. Give them a try.


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

I feed a kennel Nutrisource. The blue bag Adult Chicken and Rice is great for all dogs but I feed the Super Performance since I travel and you feed less of it than the Adult. I have thought about switching to Costco Kirkland brand if I needed to cut costs. You can have it delivered for less than $30 a bag from Costco Business Services. It is made by Diamond but the ingredients look good. Friends who feed it seem happy.


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## kercha83 (Jan 28, 2011)

I have not heard anybody mention taste of the wild, its a good food with pretty good ingredients. Its around the same price range as pro plan. When i first got my pup at 8 weeks old she was on pro plan and she was scratching herself constantly and crying all night long because of her itchy skin. After three days of non stop scratch i switched her food and the itch went away fast.

I have always wanted to try pro plan because alot of pros and breeders use them so im thinking it might be a very good food.


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## Clay Rogers (Jul 8, 2008)

Well, I went to TSC today to get my normal order of PPP and it had gone up $1/bag. Went from $42.99 to 43.99. Made my mind for me. I bought Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete. I can get three bags for the price of 2 PPP, and its 40lb bags. I will keep you all informed.


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

I have been feeding Kirkland Lamb & Rice for at least 10 years and never had a problem.Prior to that I fed ANF until they changed formulas and raised prices.I don't think they are around any more.The dogs,BLF out of trial lines, are hunted hard and one of them I am training and running to get her SH title.They have super coats (see my avatar) and very good stamina.Normal tight stool.etc (unless they go eating cat poop or other typical lab garbage) 

Jeff


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

stumpholehunter said:


> Well, I went to TSC today to get my normal order of PPP and it had gone up $1/bag. Went from $42.99 to 43.99. Made my mind for me. I bought Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete. I can get three bags for the price of 2 PPP, and its 40lb bags. I will keep you all informed.


I hope you have enough PPP to make the switch slowly, if not be prepared for change of diet loose stools. You also might not feed as much, I was feeding about 2 3/4 -3 cups to adult males, that were not working very hard.Feed too much Extreme Athlete, the stools will get loose.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Dooley said:


> Switched from Purina Pro Plan to Eukanuba Premium 30/20 - seems to be eliminating the problem of soft stools and itchiness. I was a user of Pro Plan for 25 years!
> So far so good with the Eukanuba......but $70 a bag, WOW!!!


Where the hell, does Euk premium performance 30/20, cost $70 a bag?

It's about $50 for 40#, everywhere I have bought it.


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## Clay Rogers (Jul 8, 2008)

Bridget Bodine said:


> I hope you have enough PPP to make the switch slowly, if not be prepared for change of diet loose stools. You also might not feed as much, I was feeding about 2 3/4 -3 cups to adult males, that were not working very hard.Feed too much Extreme Athlete, the stools will get loose.


I did buy one bag of PPP to help with the transition. Thanks alot for the advice also. I normally feed 4 cups once daily and I may change that to 1 1/2 cups in the morning and 2 cups at night.


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## Dooley (Feb 1, 2011)

Up here in Canada, the price of a 40lb bag of Eukanuba Premium 30/20 is $65.99 plus 13% tax gives a total of $74.57.
Not to mention the price of gas.....plus the cost of beer at $45-48 per case of 24.


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## pheona (Jan 22, 2009)

sams club sells members mark- lamb and rice-That says compare to Eukanuba. I feed this to solve itching problems i had with Eukanuba. I think the lamb is better.


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## jtfreeman (Jan 6, 2009)

Dooley said:


> Up here in Canada, the price of a 40lb bag of Eukanuba Premium 30/20 is $65.99 plus 13% tax gives a total of $74.57.
> Not to mention the price of gas.....plus the cost of beer at $45-48 per case of 24.


If Euk is that much in Canada then I would switch to Acana or Origens. It is made in Canada and is higher quality.


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## Dooley (Feb 1, 2011)

Acana and Orijen is about $10-$15 more and the bag is smaller, plus the protein rating is far too high.
But thanks for the info.


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## jtfreeman (Jan 6, 2009)

Dooley said:


> Acana and Orijen is about $10-$15 more and the bag is smaller, plus the protein rating is far too high.
> But thanks for the info.


Wow, that is expensive. Scratch my suggestion.

I just logged onto their website and watch a video about their food. Very impressive, but yes, very expensive.


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## Dooley (Feb 1, 2011)

I'll stick with the Eukanuba Premium 30/20...good quality,easy to get even though it's a little pricey but, the dogs are family members first and foremost.
Cheers


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## laduckdogman (Dec 30, 2007)

Kristie,

We feed Diamond premium adult and Diamond performance to the dogs at our training facility and we train between 1-20 dogs mostly retrievers but all breed obedience and have no complaints. We switched to Diamond from Enhance and i could not be happier with the Diamond products,dogs coats are healthy,stools are firm, and their energy levels are high. Sooner or later all dog foods will experience some problems,so there is really no good answers its just whats right for your situation in regards to price, availability, etc.


Jerry J Moll
STDT Kennels
Laplace,La.
www.stdtkennels.com


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## Schmemdog (Mar 30, 2010)

Sorry Diamond's out of the running- I have a young lab who's hard to keep weight on, and another with alergies, and the only food they, and my wallet, can agree on is Diamond Naturals. I've done everything from dog chow to 100% natural and holistic (and VERY pricey- Horizon and Evo), and this is where we settled. Sorry you've had bad feedback about them, but I'll add some good feedback just for good measure.

I also liked taste of the Wild, any formula- they started selling it here for WAY too much though, so we switched.


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## Guest (May 20, 2011)

Schmemdog said:


> Sorry Diamond's out of the running- I have a young lab who's hard to keep weight on, and another with alergies, and the only food they, and my wallet, can agree on is Diamond Naturals. I've done everything from dog chow to 100% natural and holistic (and VERY pricey- Horizon and Evo), and this is where we settled. Sorry you've had bad feedback about them, but I'll add some good feedback just for good measure.
> 
> I also liked taste of the Wild, any formula- they started selling it here for WAY too much though, so we switched.


I just can't get over the alfatoxin (sp) thing. Even if everyone told me it was a great food, even if it was just one employee (and how could it be one person, shouldn't there be multiple quality checks?)... Just can't do it.


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## Guest (May 20, 2011)

I feed Nutro natural choice large breed have for many years. My dogs stools are excellent, coats excellent & no skin problems and they like it


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## Schmemdog (Mar 30, 2010)

Kristie Wilder said:


> I just can't get over the alfatoxin (sp) thing. Even if everyone told me it was a great food, even if it was just one employee (and how could it be one person, shouldn't there be multiple quality checks?)... Just can't do it.


Aflatoxin is BAD, but they haven't had a problem that I know of since March 2007, and none of their Naturals lines were affected (not sure they made them then, though).


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## Clay Rogers (Jul 8, 2008)

Well, I switched to Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete. Been 3 weeks last Friday. My dogs have not adjusted well at all. Stools still extremely loose. They eat it like they love it, but their stools just won't firm up. I have gone back to PP. I guess the old saying is true, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2011)

I've been hesitant to come back and update this thread. We did a food trial that's finally going ok -- and the part that it wasn't easy was technically my fault.

For 15 years here, whenever a dog switched from a "lesser" food to a "better quality" food, we never had stool issues. The situation was such that we had to do the switch fairly quickly simply because of time and logistic constraints at the time. Well... It resulted in a kennel full of really really bad stool to put it lightly.

We moved them to a holistic food that is highly rated in the dog food reviews. It has only one ingredient that's "questionable" -- tomato pomace. And we can buy it directly through our local distributor and buy the rest of our supplies and things at wholesale price also. Not sure why I hadn't thought of it - we'd had an account with these folks years ago. And it turns out nobody will come to our location because they're all using big trucks and will no long deliver to residential locations. So we would have had to meet them at the interstate or somewhere else anyway no matter which brand we chose...

So we drive about 35 mins, BUT we save 50% off retail on things like cat litter and pill pockets, which we have been buying regularly. And we also save a ton on the limited ingredient bison diet one of our dogs eats. So we are paying $30 for 35# of this food. It smells absolutely delicious -- the most delicious thing I've ever smelled in dog food. And we are getting cat litter for $11 instead of $22, pill pockets for $4 instead of $8 or $9. And bison food for $35 instead of $60 -- switched to solid gold brand of this, had been feeding natural choice.

So... the last two weeks had been a bit shaky and I was really hating myself for moving so quickly and putting the dogs through some serious mess. But a little bit of immodium and yogurt first, then flagyl for anyone who had problems after that has seemed to work out fine. The food is very rich and has I think more veggie matter in it. And now the dogs are adjusting fine.

You can actually smell the meat in it. It smells really great.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/whole-earth-farms-dog-food-dry/

I never had a problem with pro plan, the dogs loved it. They love this stuff, too, but the ingredients are just so much better... It's kind of depressing reading about pro plan and euk on the dog food advisor site (and other review sites). While I guess maybe some of these sites have agendas, the reviews that cover their low quality ingredients and junk that doesn't need to be in there seem to be consistent across review sites... I was kind of depressed reading about the stuff in the brands most of us consistently use to feed our dogs.

At the same time, my dogs have always done great on pro plan. I'm just hoping they do and look even better on this stuff. I put everyone on the puppy formula so we have the extra fat and protein we need for the activity levels around here. 

Oh, and the reason the price is affordable compared to other brands/formulas is because they do long runs of just puppy, adult, and senior. No machine changes. They market it as a value holistic food for this result. They claim that it has the same quality ingredients as their fancier formula'd foods and that folks just benefit from the simplicity of the packaging and the long runs in production. That seemed to make sense...

-K


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## Uklabman (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm another who is having trouble with Diamond. Stools very loose-if nothing improves it's my last bag.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I switched to Whole Earth Farms right after it became available through the distributor 11/09. It's ok, but I had some sticking their noses up at it for awhile after being on it for about 18 months-about 5 out of the blue. I went on Euk performance over the winter and put them back on it. I had heard some rumblings like they were trying to cheapen the ingredients. I hope they rectified the situation because it reads a good food at a good price. One of the 5 is still on the Euk and one is just having old dog eating problems and is on Earthborn Primitive.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2011)

ErinsEdge said:


> I switched to Whole Earth Farms right after it became available through the distributor 11/09. It's ok, but I had some sticking their noses up at it for awhile after being on it for about 18 months-about 5 out of the blue. I went on Euk performance over the winter and put them back on it. I had heard some rumblings like they were trying to cheapen the ingredients. I hope they rectified the situation because it reads a good food at a good price. One of the 5 is still on the Euk and one is just having old dog eating problems and is on Earthborn Primitive.


If you read up on Merrick, there are articles and FDA stuff about possibly having used sick or dead cows or something? But I BELIEVE that was related to other food products. I spent several hours reading up and researching, listening to people complain on a few years ago... I've searched for every review I could find, and then read the responses to the various reviews. I read some things where it seemed Merrick was being scrutinized by the public. The owner also owns the largest company in TX that picks up dead or dying cows?? I forget what they call it... So it sure doesn't seem like a good connection, but after I read all kinds of things, I felt like it wasn't related to the dog food side and that meat went elsewhere for other stuff...

The dogs so far love the food and I swear I'm going to take a bite one day... we'll see how it goes. I think every company out there has been under some groups radar for something...


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## davidvanryn (Jan 24, 2010)

I was using enhance perf/athlete and the price is very good and excellent performance, don,t use the diamond if you really look at the inged and know what they are you would not use there food. Talk to gary sheets and he will hook you up


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## metalone67 (Apr 3, 2009)

I've been feeding Diamond for years. What I have noticed is I can adjust portions for each dog. Right now they get 2 cups a day and do not act starved and have plenty of energy and recover well. Other foods I've fed they seemed to need more to get the same results as diamond. 
The gas problem is caused by the high amount of protien. For example how are you after eating nothing but steak for three days. LOL
Good luck in your search.


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

I tried the dogs on a couple different types of Diamond. They did terrible on it. I had our cat on the maintanence and it almost killed him. I feed Loyall. Dogs have thick, shiney coats and nice minimal output. Will never feed Diamond again!


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## metalone67 (Apr 3, 2009)

Kristie Wilder said:


> I've been hesitant to come back and update this thread. We did a food trial that's finally going ok -- and the part that it wasn't easy was technically my fault.
> 
> For 15 years here, whenever a dog switched from a "lesser" food to a "better quality" food, we never had stool issues. The situation was such that we had to do the switch fairly quickly simply because of time and logistic constraints at the time. Well... It resulted in a kennel full of really really bad stool to put it lightly.
> 
> ...


so what brand was it or did I miss you mentioning it.


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## metalone67 (Apr 3, 2009)

Hers something that just hit me. So many are afraid to feed certain foods due to the sickness. Here's something to think about. How many people have gotten somenila poisoning but yet once it passes we keep eating the same foods from the same country it came from, wouldn't it make sense to stop eating those foods? The inspection and quality have been cracked down on, wouldn't that be true with dog food? Im not the least bit afraid to keep feeding my brand.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Kristie Wilder said:


> If you read up on Merrick, there are articles and FDA stuff about possibly having used sick or dead cows or something? But I BELIEVE that was related to other food products. I spent several hours reading up and researching, listening to people complain on a few years ago... I've searched for every review I could find, and then read the responses to the various reviews. I read some things where it seemed Merrick was being scrutinized by the public. The owner also owns the largest company in TX that picks up dead or dying cows?? I forget what they call it... So it sure doesn't seem like a good connection, but after I read all kinds of things, I felt like it wasn't related to the dog food side and that meat went elsewhere for other stuff...
> 
> The dogs so far love the food and I swear I'm going to take a bite one day... we'll see how it goes. I think every company out there has been under some groups radar for something...


This is what I was told through the people I talk to-nothing about the dead cows or anything unhealthy. I was told that Merrick had cut down on some palatability ingredients rather than increase prices and dogs were turning their noses up at it. She gave me the rep name and I took the lot numbers of my food because I had switched to it with most of the dogs. I also had used the BG on my dog in training and that was fine. Nothing came of it. I went off it for awhile except for 2 stud dogs and went back on it and they are gobbling it up again. It was just real weird, all of a sudden 5 started leaving the food.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2011)

metalone67 said:


> so what brand was it or did I miss you mentioning it.


I'm sorry, I just included the link to a review of it. It's Whole Earth Farms by Merrick. We're using the puppy formula for the higher fat and protein.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2011)

ErinsEdge said:


> This is what I was told through the people I talk to-nothing about the dead cows or anything unhealthy. I was told that Merrick had cut down on some palatability ingredients rather than increase prices and dogs were turning their noses up at it. She gave me the rep name and I took the lot numbers of my food because I had switched to it with most of the dogs. I also had used the BG on my dog in training and that was fine. Nothing came of it. I went off it for awhile except for 2 stud dogs and went back on it and they are gobbling it up again. It was just real weird, all of a sudden 5 started leaving the food.


That is odd, esp when I bet most of yours are food whores like ours are. We actually have one male right now that isn't touching it, but not sure if it's bc we have a bitch in heat or not... Or he might just not be hungry... Seems ok otherwise. Everyone else seems voracious for it.

Switching foods was a very anxiety-producing thing for me. I had a hard time making the decision because the dogs were doing fine, but once I realized I might be able to get better quality ingredients and actually save money, it got me thinking... I have NOTHING against PPP. It has been a great food for my dogs.

We were just checking out the dogs tonight and they've always had great coats, but now they're all starting to look slicker, which is cool. Not that big of a deal to me overall, but just interesting...

-K


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2011)

I highly recommend that some of you go to this site and read about the ingredients in your food http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/brand/

As best I can tell, this site is very well read, resourced and the guy who runs it is extremely responsive and active -- and seems ethical and unbiased as best I can tell. Simply discussing and reviewing each ingredient listed -- and it's the same information across the board for each food ingredient, regardless of manufacturer.

I also just posted this to our facebook page and recommend these articles for reading, too. For most of us, they don't come into play. but when someone asks you about dog food -- which seems to come up often -- this is great for conversation/education:



> READ THIS: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/euthanized-pets-dog-food/, THEN THIS: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/shocking-truth-about-dog-food/ THEN SEARCH FOR YOUR DOG FOOD: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/brand/ and see if it contains any of the ingredients you just read about. I'm going to print these out and use them to educate our clients. wow.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

I've been feeding Euk for years and the price from them direct is pretty good. Saves me from burning $.00 diesel to drive 60 miles and get it too! 

I also just read about a study where Euk resulted in better performance in hunting dogs.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I am back to Euk for good now. And I even got a pleasant surprise the other day at the PetSmart I buy it from. I walked up to the check out and the girl asked if I had any coupons. I did not. She reached into her drawer and gave me a couple of $10 coupons. I bought two 40 pound bags of 30/20 for $80! This one store makes up for all the other bad ones I have dealt with.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I don't agree with their assessment of some of the ingredients-opinions on those things are by people that are not schooled in formulating foods for animals so they call many of the fiber additives as fillers and that's not true. I remember being told animals need fiber in the diet just as they are finding out with humans and they have some of the fibers as listed in red ingredients. Tomato pumace not only contains fiber, but it contains antioxidants, and pre-biotics. 
"When people think about fiber, they are often concerned with the quantity of fiber present, however, the rate of fermentation is actually more important. The rate of fermentation of the fiber will actually dictate how beneficial it is for the given medical condition being treated. The rate of fermentation of a fiber determines its effect on the water holding capacity and the overall bulk of the stool. Slowly fermented fibers are the most effective stool bulking agents because they maintain their structure longer and hold more water. The rapidly fermenting fibers lose their shape and hold less water and bulk. In fact, if a large amount of rapidly fermenting fiber is fed, it can produce a laxative effect and produce diarrhea as a result. Unless a pet food is designed to treat a certain condition, a mix of both rapidly fermenting and slowly fermenting fiber sources is usually the most desirable. 

The function of fiber in the diet is to increase both bulk and water in the intestinal contents. Fiber will shorten intestinal transit time in pets with fast transit times, and speed up the transit times in animals with slow transit times. What this means is that fiber will help treat both diarrhea and constipation. Fiber absorbs extra water in diarrheic stools, and it helps hold onto water, which prevents constipation. Some fiber is broken down in the intestine into fatty acids. These fatty acids will aid in preventing the overgrowth of harmful bacteria. They will also help the colon cells to recover from injury and possibly help reduce the risk of colon cancer."


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2011)

ErinsEdge said:


> I don't agree with their assessment of some of the ingredients-opinions on those things are by people that are not schooled in formulating foods for animals so they call many of the fiber additives as fillers and that's not true. I remember being told animals need fiber in the diet just as they are finding out with humans and they have some of the fibers as listed in red ingredients. Tomato pumace not only contains fiber, but it contains antioxidants, and pre-biotics.
> "When people think about fiber, they are often concerned with the quantity of fiber present, however, the rate of fermentation is actually more important. The rate of fermentation of the fiber will actually dictate how beneficial it is for the given medical condition being treated. The rate of fermentation of a fiber determines its effect on the water holding capacity and the overall bulk of the stool. Slowly fermented fibers are the most effective stool bulking agents because they maintain their structure longer and hold more water. The rapidly fermenting fibers lose their shape and hold less water and bulk. In fact, if a large amount of rapidly fermenting fiber is fed, it can produce a laxative effect and produce diarrhea as a result. Unless a pet food is designed to treat a certain condition, a mix of both rapidly fermenting and slowly fermenting fiber sources is usually the most desirable.
> 
> The function of fiber in the diet is to increase both bulk and water in the intestinal contents. Fiber will shorten intestinal transit time in pets with fast transit times, and speed up the transit times in animals with slow transit times. What this means is that fiber will help treat both diarrhea and constipation. Fiber absorbs extra water in diarrheic stools, and it helps hold onto water, which prevents constipation. Some fiber is broken down in the intestine into fatty acids. These fatty acids will aid in preventing the overgrowth of harmful bacteria. They will also help the colon cells to recover from injury and possibly help reduce the risk of colon cancer."


But the author doesn't say good or bad about tomato pomace. He presents it as a questionable ingredient and leaves you to decide for yourself. Any of the ingredients highlighted in red are not necessarily bad. In some cases, he's drawing your attention to it and presents both sides:



> Next, *tomato pomace* is a controversial ingredient… a by-product left after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.
> Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content… while others scorn it as a cheap pet food filler laden with pesticides found on the skin of the tomato before processing.
> Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.


For me, we have all of our clients bring their own food supply. So on a daily basis, I see everything from Pedgree/kibbles n bits to some of the highest rated brands on his page. And I see a clear difference in the dogs, their conditioning and stool volume/consistency. And it really goes along with pretty much the ratings he's given these foods.

I hope to continue to be pleased with our choice. I really don't want to switch again any time in the future. Thanks for all your insight!!! I know a lot more about the scientific side of things than I ever will.


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## Labs Will-Do (Jan 31, 2007)

Just went to local Petco to buy monthly Pro Plan for kennel ( average about 15 to 20 dogs) - have been paying right at 32/bag out the door for last year or so - petco sales folks were hit or miss as far as whether this included or didn't include the 200 lb 10% ( so sometimes got additional 10%) also enjoyed the 10 get one free in the past. This made the 32 PPP a good deal. Now they told me today that I'd be charged 36/bag out door , of course now the only additional perks are the petco pal dollars and the pro plan club incentive. 

So I want to toy with a possible food switch. Called Euk ( feed to personal dogs in past and like alot) and they said they would have sales representative call about brown bags delivered. Can anyone give me an idea on price expected for the Euk professional bag in 30/20 delivered.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Labs Will-Do said:


> ( feed to personal dogs in past and like alot) and they said they would have sales representative call about brown bags delivered. Can anyone give me an idea on price expected for the Euk professional bag in 30/20 delivered.


I am paying $36.25 for 44# of Euk Sporting Performance 30/20. It's been stable for awhile. This is plus delivery with 400# minimum


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## Labs Will-Do (Jan 31, 2007)

Thanks EE - is this a nonmarked bag therefore no Breeder club perks? I do like Euk food and its more lbs/bag for money. I hope sales rep gives me a call.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

They knock Euk Performance always for the beet pulp and now are iffy on the sorghum's value. I know the scientist that was studying sorghum for it's high antioxidant properties and he was advising the people at Euk. Here is what they say: 
"The sixth ingredient is *sorghum*. Sorghum is a starchy cereal grain with a nutrient profile similar to corn.
Since it is gluten-free and boasts a smoother blood sugar behavior than other grains, sorghum may be considered a decent non-meat ingredient."
Zip about antioxidants and yet it is extremely high in antioxidants, even more than blueberries and pomegranates
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100913100449.htm

As far as beet pulp they at least give some credit to it as a possible valuable fiber whereas before it was listed as cheap filler. Actually, this is one reason why stools are much better on Euk and why some of the high premium foods are messy. I used to feed a white bag that was Best in Show made for them by Fromms. I got sick of not being able to shovel this stool that looked like melted ice cream.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2011)

Labs Will-Do said:


> Just went to local Petco to buy monthly Pro Plan for kennel ( average about 15 to 20 dogs) - have been paying right at 32/bag out the door for last year or so - petco sales folks were hit or miss as far as whether this included or didn't include the 200 lb 10% ( so sometimes got additional 10%) also enjoyed the 10 get one free in the past. This made the 32 PPP a good deal. Now they told me today that I'd be charged 36/bag out door , of course now the only additional perks are the petco pal dollars and the pro plan club incentive.
> 
> So I want to toy with a possible food switch. Called Euk ( feed to personal dogs in past and like alot) and they said they would have sales representative call about brown bags delivered. Can anyone give me an idea on price expected for the Euk professional bag in 30/20 delivered.


What I did was research the higher quality foods on the various review sites, reading both the review and all the user comments (and then researching via google anything I found and wanted to know more about). Then I contacted the food manufacturers to see what deals they had for kennels, etc. and they usually explained them and then referred me to local sales reps and distributors. I REALLY liked Fromm, but couldn't get it here for a good price -- although I know some ppl who get it for a great price through their local distributor. And most brands don't have a performance formula, which we still use around here because of the activity level of the dogs. So we researched puppy recipes.

I went with the Merrick whole earth bc we have a distributor that's 30 mins away, just a little further than we were going to petco. Most distributors won't come right to our house with their tractor trailers bc it's just too difficult, so we would have to meet them at the interstate. I actually like being able to get it at the distributor because a) we call our order in on any night and can get it the next day vs just one day a week and b) we've had bad experiences with meeting trucks at the interstate (i.e. waiting at a gas station for an hour because driver got stuck at previous delivery). 

Merrick is now willing to work with us on both price and some incentives for our rescue and kennel. So I'm excited about that. I will know more tomorrow. I really like the food and I hope it works out for us...

Other than that, the only other holistic food that was economical was Fromm. A lot of the higher end holistics are extremely pricey. I have even see some up in the $60's and higher at wholesale for 25-30 pound bags. 

-K


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Labs Will-Do said:


> Thanks EE - is this a nonmarked bag therefore no Breeder club perks? I do like Euk food and its more lbs/bag for money. I hope sales rep gives me a call.


No, you get nothing for the codes-they are professional feeders bags


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## Labs Will-Do (Jan 31, 2007)

Kristie - There happen to be a Merrick promotion table in the petco and the young lady rep ask if I wanted one of the small, small, small sample bags and I decline seeing how I was picking up a utility trailer load of PPP. I thought it looked like another expensive holistic food and didn't really take a hard look. As for the delivery the Eukanuba phone rep questioned whether I could receive tractor trailer at kennel. Again I'm interested in hearing from them. I've moved alot of clients and friends to PPP feeders , maybe I could do same for Euk if i was feeding it.


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## MSDOGS1976 (Mar 7, 2009)

Kristie Wilder said:


> I highly recommend that some of you go to this site and read about the ingredients in your food http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/brand/


He's a dentist. Most of these sites are run by pet food enthusiast, not by animal nutritionist or vets. Hard for me to get excited over these websites.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2011)

MSDOGS1976 said:


> He's a dentist. Most of these sites are run by pet food enthusiast, not by animal nutritionist or vets. Hard for me to get excited over these websites.


I don't care if he's a homemaker... The ratings for the dog foods I'm familiar with correlate pretty well with the conditioning and health I've seen of the dogs in our care over 15 yrs.


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## MSDOGS1976 (Mar 7, 2009)

Kristie Wilder said:


> I don't care if he's a homemaker... The ratings for the dog foods I'm familiar with correlate pretty well with the conditioning and health I've seen of the dogs in our care over 15 yrs.


So the dogs that you have seen using Pro Plan(2*) and Eukanuba(3*) have not been in as good of condition/health as the ones this guy rates a 5*?


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2011)

MSDOGS1976 said:


> So the dogs that you have seen using Pro Plan(2*) and Eukanuba(3*) have not been in as good of condition/health as the ones this guy rates a 5*?


1) Their rating for pro plan is based on the adult shredded blend formula, which I do not care for. We tried it in our non-working dogs when it first came out and it was awful. Our dogs' coats got dull and their stool volume was disgusting. They couldn't go more than 4 hours in outdoor kennels without having accidents, and messy ones. We gave it a shot for a couple of months and then concluded it was just not good food. So yes, my experience with it correlates with a 2 for sure.

2) I think both Euk and PPP are fine foods. My dogs have done well on both feeds. But when clients have brought in holistic and even more premium foods -- yes, there is a difference. And when other clients bring in Ol Roy or Pedigree, there's a big difference there, too.

Again, I have nothing against PPP (or Euk). I think dogs can do great on them. But as I started researching (NOT just the site mentioned, I just felt the site I mentioned is easy to navigate and follow), I realized that I could get an EVEN BETTER FOOD for a lower price. That is what has driven my decision.


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## Clay Rogers (Jul 8, 2008)

All I can say is that after 4 days back on Pro Plan Performance, all the dogs in the kennel have formed stools, seemed to be more energetic and kinda back to their normal self. I will not switch again.


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## Cowtown (Oct 3, 2009)

Merrick is great. I use Fromm Duck and Sweet Potato but I only have 1 dog and can pick up a bag on the way to & from work.

I've been VERY VERY pleased with the results with Fromm. My guy is at a pro trainers who feeds Euk and he gets stopped up and you can easily see that his coat is more dull and not as healthy, slick and shiny looking.

I'll definitely transition from Euk back to Fromm when he comes home.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2011)

Just wanted to post a quick update... The dogs are doing really well on the Merrick Whole Earth. Merrick has also been very supportive of our efforts. They give us three free bags when we buy a pallet of 30 (comparable to anyone's 10% or buy 10, get one). They also dropped the price for us overall and they are keeping us stocked up on small (I think 8#?) bags to hand out with our rescue dogs. They're also sending samples and promotional materials. 

I think we made it down to about $26/bag. It retails for $42 on average. I think even at that, it's a great value. But I'm very thankful to Merrick for working with us.

I swear I smell the food every night. I even ate a piece and it's not bad. 

-K


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## kdeckels (Sep 12, 2009)

Cowtown said:


> Merrick is great. I use Fromm Duck and Sweet Potato but I only have 1 dog and can pick up a bag on the way to & from work.
> 
> I've been VERY VERY pleased with the results with Fromm. My guy is at a pro trainers who feeds Euk and he gets stopped up and you can easily see that his coat is more dull and not as healthy, slick and shiny looking.
> 
> I'll definitely transition from Euk back to Fromm when he comes home.


Does Merrick still own Hereford By Products? The company that comes to western Kansas & picks up all the dead animals full of antibiotics & steroid implants? I know back when they got their start with Beef N More they did.


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## tripsteer1 (Feb 25, 2011)

I started feeding PP large puppy formula,then after a great deal of research went to Orijen which is a top natural dog food. After 2 months I am now back on the PP lamb and rice.Far as I am concerned a waste of my money.As for comments on Purina, I've had labs for 20 years and never had a problem with our dogs until I started trying all the new foods out there. The old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it".


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## kindakinky (Dec 11, 2008)

To read more about Merrick Pet products, google Tejas Industries.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2011)

kdeckels said:


> Does Merrick still own Hereford By Products? The company that comes to western Kansas & picks up all the dead animals full of antibiotics & steroid implants? I know back when they got their start with Beef N More they did.


They did if they still don't. You can also read up on the Merrick family that owns it. From what I've read and understand, they make all kinds of feed products elsewhere, not just from dogs. The cattle disposal industry is apparently a HUGE one and there are more companies than hereford that do it. 

If I remember correctly, I felt comfortable that those animal products were being used elsewhere and for other purposes, not just feed and not their lines of dog food.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2011)

tripsteer1 said:


> I started feeding PP large puppy formula,then after a great deal of research went to Orijen which is a top natural dog food. After 2 months I am now back on the PP lamb and rice.Far as I am concerned a waste of my money.As for comments on Purina, I've had labs for 20 years and never had a problem with our dogs until I started trying all the new foods out there. The old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it".


I don't think anyone's said anything negative about Purina here. My initial reason for the switch was simply financial. Then it was a combination of financial and ingredients. My dogs did well on PPP. I have no complaints. However, I feel that we're feeding a better quality food now and for less money -- but the dogs did just great on Purina. If there was a way to drive the cost down, we'd still be there. But the bags were getting smaller and costs kept going up, we lost our supply line and here we are...


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