# 2017 NARC - who is running the best leading up to event?



## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Ok, FT'ers...what dog do you think is running the best leading up to the start of the 2017 NARC? 

I have looked at Retriever Results to form my own opinion but curious to hear from people who have seen a lot of these dogs run.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Last week's trial means very little when it comes to a National. There are many dog/handler combinations that have never run out of their geographical area. Add to that the pressure/stress of running more tests than in a weekend trial. 

The team that gets on a roll and can maintain their composure is tough to beat.


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## Kajun Kamakazi (May 17, 2011)

Ted Shih and Kitty have been getting color all year. Alex Abraham and Tucker too.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

And just the fact that the National is ... well... the National. Multiple holding blinds, trucks, people and dogs everywhere... some dogs crack under the added stress... and some actually rise to the occasion. 

Sometimes it's the bigtime dog you expect like a Bullet. Sometimes the Finalists are dogs that folks were not talking about, but maybe should have been.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

My picks were 
#8 JJ of Redrock
#35 SP Lab's Rosie Ellegant Ellie
#43 Mulligan off the Rainy T
#61 Lock Five's She's Got Her Blue Genes On
#65 Texas Troubador
#70 Pekisko's Ironman
#79 Freeridin Miss Kitty
#104 Windcity's Mighty Mouse
#124 Bluenorth' Rock Hard Ten
#136 Trumarc's Hollandaise


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

There are numerous non dog factors in play. Lighting, wind, and scenting conditions are ever changing and those factors are magnified early in Nationals when tests are rarely completed in one day. Add to that when a dog makes a mistake, if it happens in a series when a big cut is imminent you may get only one mistake. Traditionally at Nationals two mistakes get you out. Look at previous Finalists, some are now 8-10 which makes them wise but perhaps more vulnerable to fatigue. Also look at the handlers, these things tend to be repetitive.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Best to Holland at the National Ed...


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

huntinman said:


> Best to Holland at the National Ed...


x2. I'm a huge fan of Holland and the puppies he throws.


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

JJ and Jim are running well and are very consistent. Sharon and Rusty too.
Cosmo is a perfect example of a very good dog blowing up at Nationals. How many of you have heard of his brother Spud who was a finalist?
Best to all who are running.

Jeff


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

huntinman said:


> Best to Holland at the National Ed...


Thanks Bill, sadly at 9 1/2 this may be his 6th and last National Amateur, where did the time go?


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

EdA said:


> There are numerous non dog factors in play. Lighting, wind, and scenting conditions are ever changing and those factors are magnified early in Nationals when tests are rarely completed in one day. Add to that when a dog makes a mistake, if it happens in a series when a big cut is imminent you may get only one mistake. Traditionally at Nationals two mistakes get you out. Look at previous Finalists, some are now 8-10 which makes them wise but perhaps more vulnerable to fatigue. Also look at the handlers, these things tend to be repetitive.


Thanks Dr. Ed. I certainly agree with all of the above. And I understand that a dog could get "hot" for just this week and win. And I also understand that past success does not necessarily mean success at a national due to the above factors. And as Bon said, I agree that last weeks trial winners don't mean that a dog is going to win or even compete well in a national event. Just like a golfer who wins the week before a major doesn't mean he will win or even make the cut in a major. It's a different game. 
But I still like predictions. And opinions and guesses. I think it's fun to discuss what teams have been running really well all spring. 

It's really not unlike sports radio talking about how good/bad the Dallas Cowboys (or any pro/college team) are going to be next year due to their upcoming 2017 schedule.... when in fact, no one knows how good the Cowboys will be or for that matter any of the teams the Cowboys will be playing will be... There are always factors that influence the outcome (injuries, player performance, freak plays, bad calls, etc). But the radio jocks still make a living talking about it 24/7/365. 

It's just in good fun.

And good luck to Holland and everyone else who has a dog running.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

labsforme said:


> JJ and Jim are running well and are very consistent. Sharon and Rusty too.
> Cosmo is a perfect example of a very good dog blowing up at Nationals. How many of you have heard of his brother Spud who was a finalist?
> Best to all who are running.
> 
> Jeff


I noticed JJ and Jim's consistency recently as well.


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

labsforme said:


> JJ and Jim are running well and are very consistent.
> Cosmo is a perfect example of a very good dog blowing up at Nationals. How many of you have heard of his brother Spud who was a finalist?
> Best to all who are running.
> 
> Jeff


This would not be Totten's 1st National Am winner. 

Cosmo had his issues with well set land triples, it allowed him to get happy feet!


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## Richard Davis (Feb 9, 2011)

Augie Farnsworth & Smoke are a team to watch. Good luck to all the contestants.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

labsforme said:


> JJ and Jim are running well and are very consistent. Sharon and Rusty too.
> Cosmo is a perfect example of a very good dog blowing up at Nationals. *How many of you have heard of his brother Spud who was a finalist?*
> Best to all who are running.
> 
> Jeff


They had another brother Otis... Rise to the Top. Who was pretty good too...


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Good luck Dr Ed. It seems like yesterday Holland was just a kid starting on his journey.


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

Alex and Tucker had a very good spring. I'll be pulling for him as my QAA female has a belly full of Tucker pups right now. Plus Alex is a really nice guy and works hard with his dogs.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

EdA said:


> Thanks Bill, sadly at 9 1/2 this may be his 6th and last National Amateur, where did the time go?


Looks like the old man used all of that experience on a very tough 2nd series... from the description in the blog it sounds like Holland was feeling his oats!

Hope he keeps it up.


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## LGH (Oct 20, 2013)

2nd is eating them up. Looks really tight from the picture and a lot of suction from the right and left


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Last 14 dogs, only 2 are clean(Holland and Pistol). Total stats from 2nd: 100 dogs run thus far. 57 handles or pick ups.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

huntinman said:


> Looks like the old man used all of that experience on a very tough 2nd series... from the description in the blog it sounds like Holland was feeling his oats!
> 
> Hope he keeps it up.


Thank you, Sylvia said he was one of the few who made it look easy, lots of field trial to go but nice to do really well on a test that few are doing well. He has a pretty high dog IQ.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

anyone want to guess how many they call back? I think the number is 100+/- (started the second series with 127). ..since so many dogs handled, the old adage that not all handles in the NARC are created equal, looks like it will apply here..I figure all double handles and dogs with handles in both 1st/2nd are gone, leaving the judges to decide what dogs had a quick handle and which ones did not....GREAT JOB to all that survived the first two series unscathed


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

BonMallari said:


> anyone want to guess how many they call back? I think the number is 100+/- (started the second series with 127). ..since so many dogs handled, the old adage that not all handles in the NARC are created equal, looks like it will apply here..I figure all double handles and dogs with handles in both 1st/2nd are gone, leaving the judges to decide what dogs had a quick handle and which ones did not....GREAT JOB to all that survived the first two series unscathed


Well, you have 18 already just with the PU's, double HH's and 2 series handles. 

So, how many others just failed outright? And what about the ones that didn't handle that should have?

My uneducated guess is they will hit them pretty hard since they are 3 days in and only 2 series down. 

I could be wrong and probably am.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

huntinman said:


> Well, you have 18 already just with the PU's, double HH's and 2 series handles.
> 
> So, how many others just failed outright? And what about the ones that didn't handle that should have?
> 
> ...


79 back, about 1/3 of the field gone in the second series


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

EdA said:


> 79 back, about 1/3 of the field gone in the second series


Wow! 

Good luck going forward. This start you have should carry some weight... keep it rolling.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 13, 14, 16, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 55, 56, 58, 59, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 68, 69, 71, 74, 75, 80, 82, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 93, 94, 96, 98, 100, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 111, 112, 114, 116, 117, 119, 122, 125, 129, 130, 136 and 137.

Callbacks to the 3rd series, 68 starts


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## Bill McKnight (Sep 11, 2014)

We are looking at the new normal for a national with large entries. About 45 dogs back, some with significant hunts, with no handles. This is hard on judges and competitors. 
Ronan Bill


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Nearly half the field dropped going into 3rd. From afar seems 2nd was over the top designed for elimination test evident by field champion after field champion unable to do it. Likely number of dogs called back only managed it carrying a ding. 
Would be curious to know who the handful of dogs are who spanked the 1st & 2nd.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Looks like 41 out of the 79 called back don't have a handle but, there could be a large number of huge hunts in those 41. At least the people who got dropped where running 6 marks and not blinds. It looked tough but I sure would have liked to had a chance to walk to the line and try it! I hope the judges keep the pedal pushed down and continue tough tests, a lot of people are sad they travel all over the country to go out in the 1st or 2nd series that's no different than a weekend, this week it's about the A game. Good Luck to everyone left!


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

No gimmies. Dogs had to mark . Check out the no handles/call backs for dogs with a history of marking accomplishment. Handler skills comes into play and judges have to judge.

One golden entered and clean going into the 3rd...#125, Pistol, Wayne Anderson....


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Breck the gallery BS and blog is conjecture. The judges books and final decision counts. The rest is pure fluff.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

swliszka said:


> Breck the gallery BS and blog is conjecture. The judges books and final decision counts. The rest is pure fluff.


Well Duh, thanks


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

Stinger was not dropped though.




Breck said:


> So hard to interpret the blog commentary.
> An example of one dog dropped, who according to the blog appears to have hit the 1st & 2nd fairly well.???
> .
> Saturday, June 17, 2017
> ...


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

joeyrhoades said:


> Stinger was not dropped though.


Well, ok. This morning thought i read it differently. Ref post 26 callbacks.? 
Deleted that example. Thanks


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Breck said:


> Well, ok. This morning thought i read it differently. Ref post 26 callbacks.?
> Deleted that example. Thanks


I think it was a misposting. I read the same thing.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Breck said:


> Well, ok. This morning thought i read it differently. Ref post 26 callbacks.?
> Deleted that example. Thanks


That was copied and pasted from an official source last night, if someone was missing it was either a clerical error or reinstatement


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Breck said:


> Well Duh, thanks


Breck, better get a recon chopper overhead for establishing visual contact. Just beware any rogue blimps straying from their flight path by way of Holy Hill...

MG


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

I'm gonna need something better than Tylenol. ;-)
. 
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Mwe0WuDJ-UE/WUlyC_i3CEI/AAAAAAAAm6M/DxbDF_Ui_LwKdmPvOhT8cwihBB79-Nx9ACLcBGAs/s1600/_5ML4412_W.jpg


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

Breck said:


> I'm gonna need something better than Tylenol. ;-)
> .
> https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Mwe0WuDJ-UE/WUlyC_i3CEI/AAAAAAAAm6M/DxbDF_Ui_LwKdmPvOhT8cwihBB79-Nx9ACLcBGAs/s1600/_5ML4412_W.jpg


Looks like Duncan Christie


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Just from the blog pictures (no smiles and heads down when leaving the line) and the number of pick-ups/handles the judges seemed to have kept the pedal down in the 5th! 

Teams seem to be having some trouble with this and to think this could of had a 4th bird. I'd really like to see a video or commentary from Pat Burns. I've enjoyed his videos thus far.


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

Peter Balzer said:


> Just from the blog pictures (no smiles and heads down when leaving the line) and the number of pick-ups/handles the judges seemed to have kept the pedal down in the 5th!
> 
> Teams seem to be having some trouble with this and to think this could of had a 4th bird. I'd really like to see a video or commentary from Pat Burns. I've enjoyed his videos thus far.


http://2017narc.blogspot.com/2017/06/droning-on-in-5th.html?m=1


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Yeah there were a couple of videos posted right after I commented. Seems like another very tough series, but still a few dogs appear to be doing it well.


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Hard to tell 100% from reading the reports on the blog. What dog(s) seem to be separating themselves at this point? Anyone with first-hand knowledge?


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

There are 39 dogs callback to the 6th series and they are 1, 5, 8, 19, 22, 23, 24, 25, 33, 39, 43, 49, 50, 52, 53, 56, 61, 62, 69, 71, 75, 80, 82, 85, 86, 89, 94, 98, 100, 104, 106, 111, 112, 116, 117, 122, 125, 136, 137

27 dogs were dropped and they are

2, 7, 13, 14, 16, 21, 27, 30, 31, 35, 36, 41, 47, 55, 58, 59, 63, 64, 65, 74, 88, 96, 103, 105, 119, 129, 130


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## O.clarki (Feb 7, 2012)

YEP go #8 JJ


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

bamajeff said:


> Hard to tell 100% from reading the reports on the blog. What dog(s) seem to be separating themselves at this point? Anyone with first-hand knowledge?


Lots of field trial to go, doesn't matter where you stand now it is what happens in the next 5 series, a number of dogs running well, anyone's game now, remember the Super Bowl?


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

EdA said:


> Lots of field trial to go, doesn't matter where you stand now it is what happens in the next 5 series, a number of dogs running well, anyone's game now, remember the Super Bowl?


Good luck Dr. Ed. Our training group is pulling for Holland.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Gotta root for my Montana rancher buddy Jim and JJ!


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

It was unfortunate to read of the two injuries and resulting scratches. Got to be heartbreaking to get all this way and then to pull out due to injury.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Getting some self-inflicted answers today.

There are excellent videos today of ground level 7th series, drone flyovers of area and working dogs, plus interviews. All on YouTube. Best coverage over the years of a national IMO. Thanks Tina.,Codswallop.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

7th drone video what exactly is the "circle" at left hand mark?


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I was wondering the same thing!


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Breck said:


> 7th drone video what exactly is the "circle" at left hand mark?



It is a floating ring that keeps the bird from drifting away


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Genius! Is it anchored then? Dogs go over it easily?


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Tobias said:


> Genius! Is it anchored then? Dogs go over it easily?


The rings do not pose a safety hazard. However, if your dog has not trained on the rings, it is likely to flare the rings.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Yes, use 6" corrugated black plastic pipe with 2liter plastic bottles inside for buoyancy. Decoy line and whatever for weighting it down.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I was thinking it might be an issue for a dog not exposed to it.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Tobias said:


> I was thinking it might be an issue for a dog not exposed to it.


​Yes. And the stick ponds are also an issue.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

I'll say one thing. From afar seems like every marking setup design is very clever, difficult and peppered with dog eating factors.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

8th series no see'um water blind. Love it.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

How big is that ring? The BB has to throw a duck into it. For me it would have to be huge.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Rather short water blind. By pic better hope dog doesn't get off the high point and wrap right.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

John Robinson said:


> Gotta root for my Montana rancher buddy Jim and JJ!


Yup, Jim seems like a super nice guy with an even nicer dog.

The blog label says "handle" in the 7th, but there is no description of a handle so wondering...


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Renee P. said:


> Yup, Jim seems like a super nice guy with an even nicer dog.
> 
> The blog label says "handle" in the 7th, but there is no description of a handle so wondering...


Ok, looks like the "handle" label has been removed from the blog.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

I hope the 9th and 10th are big long marking tests and both quads. These guys have found out who can dig tight marks out. From a 1000 miles always this seems to be the toughest national I have seen in a while. Kudos to the judges for not backing off and keeping the pedal down. Good luck to everyone tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Boat marks?????


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

Jim is a super nice guy. Nice to run against too. The tests have been tough but fair. I would have loved to run (try) them. Knowing those judges those running will earn it.
JJ is the real deal. GO JJ and Jim. 
I need to add Armand and Odie and Casey and Lexie

Jeff


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## huntintiger (May 31, 2016)

No dogs dropped from the 8th. Would be proud to own any of the 17 dogs remaining in the 2017 NARC.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

EdA said:


> Lots of field trial to go, doesn't matter where you stand now it is what happens in the next 5 series, a number of dogs running well, anyone's game now, remember the Super Bowl?


Another good run for Holland Ed... have to be proud of him.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

What do you guys think about this week's blog coverage?

my opinion is that it's the best ever.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Chris Atkinson said:


> What do you guys think about this week's blog coverage?
> 
> my opinion is that it's the best ever.


Yep best ever! I got to really know those guys when we ran test dog two years ago, it's unbelievable how organized they are in putting a great product out from remote areas and varied weather conditions.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Rooting for Hudson and (former?) Alaskan, Bill Barstow!


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## archer66 (Jul 23, 2012)

Can someone post a link to the video you are watching? I'd like to see some of these runs.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

archer66 said:


> Can someone post a link to the video you are watching? I'd like to see some of these runs.


http://2017narc.blogspot.com/?m=1


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## archer66 (Jul 23, 2012)

Chris Atkinson said:


> http://2017narc.blogspot.com/?m=1


Thank you sir!


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## Scott Krueger (Jan 25, 2008)

thank you for posting blog. havent been able to scramble through and find it...


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Chris Atkinson said:


> What do you guys think about this week's blog coverage?
> 
> my opinion is that it's the best ever.


They still need Satellite equipment. The cell coverage is always spotty in rural areas where these event are held. Just my humble opinion.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Way to go Mully. Congrats to Randy and the Fox Hollow crew.


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## Barb/x2crr (Oct 18, 2005)

Congratulations to: Mully and Randy on becoming a new NAFC!! Also to all the finalists, especially to Jim MeBee and JJ, you ran a great trial.

To all the contestants on qualifying for the NARC.


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## archer66 (Jul 23, 2012)

I didn't find many videos.....are there more than what I find by using the "links" button on the blogspot page? Is the event by chance aired on TV anywhere?


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Here's a way to get to the videos without the blog: 

go to youtube via this link: https://youtu.be/k46u2VRHXxQ

omce there, click the blue Retriever News logo where the name Tina Styan appears.

scroll down past the 5 or so videos and click the blue "view all" link. 

This should show all of the videos chronologically from newest on top. 

Chris.


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## Scott Krueger (Jan 25, 2008)

awesome.........who was the test dog in the 10th series vid?


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