# #2016narc blog #rftn



## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

*2016 narc!*

Just saw the blog post about John and Gus running a very nice 1st and 2nd series! Congrats on Gus being the oldest dog there and smacking the first rounds. Best of luck to everyone there. 

Who else has some favorites? Who did you pick this year?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

From a far seems most are doing well with a handful killing it and a few unfortunate hiccups.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

How can I view the reports between 16 and 48?


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## Mike Berube (Feb 8, 2003)

I can't seem to find the test description/diagram/photo, for Test 1 & 2 on the blog. Any suggestions?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

To view. On the blog there are L R navigation arrows at bottom. 
Also a web view button if you like.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Lower numbers haven't run yet. I'm pulling for Ted Shih.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Yes, they started with 16. But I wanted to see the ones up to 41. No arrows.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

2tall said:


> Yes, they started with 16. But I wanted to see the ones up to 41. No arrows.


. 
The full web version is hard to navigate back. So.... 
On the command line 2016narc.blogspot.com add /?m=1 to get mobile version. Then use button at bottom to go back 2 or 3 pages. 
Then hit the web version button.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

rooting for our RTF handlers/dogs and those from Alaska as well!


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Oooh ****!


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Referring to Cane?


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

with the majority of the field eating up the test, I wonder if the judges will have to come back with another double series 3&4 in order to avoid another two day test..my guess is they go to some type of water marks with a water blind, so that all the dogs will have seen two sets of marks and two blinds like a regular weekend trial


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Keep an eye on #13 Tempy. Helluva nice dog.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

101 dogs called back for the third series...


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## byounglove (Mar 2, 2005)

there were lots of hunts on both marks and bad work on the blind. The judges definitely have answers in their books.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

byounglove said:


> there were lots of hunts on both marks and bad work on the blind. The judges definitely have answers in their books.


Thanks for the real live perspective....very refreshing


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## canuckkiller (Apr 16, 2009)

byounglove said:


> there were lots of hunts on both marks and bad work on the blind. The judges definitely have answers in their books.


Despite the wind shift; A MEN!
Tina's Team so far has done well - good details re tests, dog work - time per dog per test - and timely
Callbacks - so far so good.

Looks like a "marks priority" national - and, patient judges.

Bill Connor


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Breck said:


> .
> The full web version is hard to navigate back. So....
> On the command line 2016narc.blogspot.com add /?m=1 to get mobile version. Then use button at bottom to go back 2 or 3 pages.
> Then hit the web version button.


Current activity is on the home page, to see earlier activity from the same day, on the left-hand column below "Previous Posts" and "Archives" is a "Older" link. This takes you to the earlier posts from the current day.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

looks like a lot of dogs are being handled on the third series triple...


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I just watched the video - Looks like they will start getting some answers. Did I read correctly that one dog did the geometry and went completely around the water for the retired bird?


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> Just saw the blog post about John and Gus running a very nice 1st and 2nd series! Congrats on Gus being the oldest dog there and smacking the first rounds. Best of luck to everyone there.
> 
> Who else has some favorites? Who did you pick this year?


Just got home from watching and happy to say that, while Gus had a handle on the middle bird, it was well timed and quick to the bird. They also came in clean. This has not been a cake walk. On the middle mark dogs want to drive up the hill and don't always recover on their own or w/out extended hunts. Where they exit out of the water is also a factor. The retired is also tricky because there is a channel pond not visible to the gallery that a lot of dogs are taking and ending up deep of where they need to be.

Nice to have met John and Gus!!! Good luck to everyone!

M


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## windwalkers swan song (Oct 25, 2008)

Good Luck to all, but I do have a favorite in Mickey. Daughter of Mick in profile pic. Good Luck Charlie ! And a Granddaughter to Grady Mr. Baker


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

well, crap. Some of my personal favorites: Rowdy, Abbey, Frazier and Ali have handled. I suppose they're in good company since by my count, 21 handles and a pick up so far out of about 60 dogs. And judging by the blog, a lot of gorilla hunts. Helluva test.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Mark Littlejohn said:


> well, crap. Some of my personal favorites: Rowdy, Abbey, Frazier and Ali have handled. I suppose they're in good company since by my count, 21 handles and a pick up so far out of about 60 dogs. And judging by the blog, a lot of gorilla hunts. Helluva test.


looks like we will see that not all handles are equal at the National Am...as will the definition of "established a big hunt"


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

BonMallari said:


> looks like we will see that not all handles are equal at the National Am...as will the definition of "established a big hunt"


. 
The blog descriptions/opinions are for entertainment purposes only.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

BonMallari said:


> looks like we will see that not all handles are equal at the National Am...as will the definition of "established a big hunt"


All too true. They never are, nor can anyone assume that the dogs without handles are in good shape.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

If you go to the Retriever News Facebook page, you will find some very interesting and enlightening comments by Pat Burns, John Russell, and Ryan Brasseaux.


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

Ted Shih said:


> If you go to the Retriever News Facebook page, you will find some very interesting and enlightening comments by Pat Burns, John Russell, and Ryan Brasseaux.


http://2016narc.blogspot.com/2016/06/pats-perspective_84.html?m=1


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## T.Lanczak (Sep 21, 2009)

Hello Retriever Enthusiest!

We are in #STOWE #VERMONT for this years National Amatuer Retriever Championships. There is no lack of excitement this year, we have seen our Judges- Mitch Patterson, Ana Calvert, & Chris Hatch getting the answers they need to determine a CHAMPION. 

Click on the link below to see what the best 110 dogs in the country are capable of doing:
http://2016narc.blogspot.com/?m=1

Pat Burns - Joins the RFTN TEAM!!! http://2016narc.blogspot.com/2016/06/pats-perspective_84.html?m=1


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Tera was the middle gun retired? The test description describes them as sitting behind a hill where they would be invisible from the line but visible once the dogs reachd he area of the fall.


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

EdA said:


> Tera was the middle gun retired? .


not from the video posted on the blog


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

No, the middle guns are very visible, just very tight to the backside of the flier. There is some speculation that the test would be easier with them hidden. 90% of the dogs that land, even a few feet backside, just can't bring themselves to move in between the two gun stations, so they hunt left, deep and all over anywhere but between those stations.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Peter Balzer said:


> Just saw the blog post about John and Gus running a very nice 1st and 2nd series! Congrats on Gus being the oldest dog there and smacking the first rounds. Best of luck to everyone there.
> 
> Who else has some favorites? Who did you pick this year?


I am rooting for John and Gus. Gus is running in spite of Lymphoma and John offered advice and support to me through PM and phone calls with my dog's recent health problems. Go you shaggy dog!


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

Gotta pull for the old timer Gus and John!.....Surprised that Flash and Wyatt(Sunday Swimmer) didn't make it this year????


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

87 back to the 4th series, 14 were dropped. Of the 14 that were dropped, 1 was picked up and several were double handles, others had sloppy handles and weaker 1st and 2nd series judging from the blog posts.

correction to my earlier post Gus is not the oldest dog running. A YLF named Mattie is the oldest. Corrected

i'm enjoying the videos from Pat Burns and handlers. I think it would be interesting to see a video of the test dog complete the series and I thought they had done this in prior years but could be mistaken

good luck to the remaining field!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

1 pickup, 3 double handles, 10 additional drops


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

20 of the remaining 87 dogs have handled....gotta give the Judges props for being in the 4th series on Day 3


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Well all the talk about getting dog thinking fat for upcoming water blind is out the window.


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## Doug Main (Mar 26, 2003)

Sounds like they have several failures on this water blind, i'd guess more than they thought. Call backs will be interesting.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

My quick pass through the blog during lunch indicated that a lot of dogs are not getting in the skinny 2nd piece of water shown on the line in this pic (not surprising), and that there are more than a few that are running the shore vs swimming the last piece. Some that are getting in the 2nd water are doing it fat (probably out of sight and out to sea before seen again), and never get on the 2nd point.

I know this is purely conjecture (we're not there, not holding their books, can't believe the blog, whistle count doesn't count, its all relative, etc, etc) but humor me since my only alternative sucks (work)... 

Dogs riding the bubble that only swim once on this blind.. still playing? What if they swim twice, but not 3x? What if they never touch the 2nd point? What's the major sin here?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Mark Littlejohn said:


> My quick pass through the blog during lunch indicated that a lot of dogs are not getting in the skinny 2nd piece of water shown on the line in this pic (not surprising), and that there are more than a few that are running the shore vs swimming the last piece. Some that are getting in the 2nd water are doing it fat (probably out of sight and out to sea before seen again), and never get on the 2nd point.
> 
> I know this is purely conjecture (we're not there, not holding their books, can't believe the blog, whistle count doesn't count, its all relative, etc, etc) but humor me since my only alternative sucks (work)...
> 
> ...


. 
. 
Um first, no mention of judges instructions. So if get in down shore line and the last little point are on line better try. It's possible you'll see dogs called back who didnt exactly get on and off the little bump of a point. I would expect dogs that get in early up front or get out on land after peninsula or point to be worried. I wouldn't want to be running last bank or getting anywhere near the blind planters holding blind. Who knows.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

I'm glad that no that works for us are into trials they would be very unproductive today like me! I wonder what the costs of us looking at the blog all day really are!
I wouldn't want a bad blind with a handle or a huge hunt earlier. You could probably call the airlines and check on flights if that is the case! I hope the judges keep the pedal pushed hard and don't let up. Usually after the 5th you see the big cut take place. Looks like they will finish this today and be ready for a land quad would be my guess with maybe a little water for the heat.


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## Doug Main (Mar 26, 2003)

Breck said:


> .
> .
> Um first, no mention of judges instructions. So if get in down shore line and the last little point are on line better try. It's possible you'll see dogs called back who didnt exactly get on and off the little bump of a point. I would expect dogs that get in early up front or get out on land after peninsula or point to be worried. Who knows.


That'd be my guess too, like I said, call backs will be interesting.


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

Nationals are famous for the judges having notoriously lax judging standards on blinds. HOWEVER, they got pretty mean on one handle cuts in the third series, so all bets are out the window. If you dragged a paw anywhere in the first three series, as Chard mentioned, hit the road.


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## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

HuntinDawg said:


> I am rooting for John and Gus. Go you shaggy dog!


Me too!!!!


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## T.Lanczak (Sep 21, 2009)

Here is a quick link to the #2016narc blog

http://2016narc.blogspot.com/


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> correction to my earlier post Gus is not the oldest dog running. A YLF named Mattie is the oldest. I believe this is the dam to Ted's nice yellow bitch Kitty!


Kitty's dam is Eric Gawthorp's titled bitch Sugar. The sire is FC AFC Rough


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

JusticeDog said:


> Kitty's dam is Eric Gawthorp's titled bitch Sugar. The sire is FC AFC Rough


My apologies, thanks for correcting me.


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## Mike Berube (Feb 8, 2003)

Did Pat Burns do a video on the 4th series land/water blind? I'm still on dial-up so may have missed it.


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

Pardon my ignorance, but how would you judge that 4th series.

As someone else said, you do not know what the judges asked as far as line and what water the dog better hit.

I am just curious as to how that series is judged. 

Thanks,
Joey


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

*The Blog has spoiled us long distance fans of the Sport! My finger is sore from hitting refresh! Any of you guys have any intel ?*


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

Chad Baker said:


> *The Blog has spoiled us long distance fans of the Sport! My finger is sore from hitting refresh! Any of you guys have any intel ?*


I just read the test 5 description, a big land quad, now is gone.


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

Same, saw the description of Test 5. And now it has vanished.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

joeyrhoades said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but how would you judge that 4th series.
> 
> As someone else said, you do not know what the judges asked as far as line and what water the dog better hit.
> 
> ...


. 
The judges will compare the work of entire field. Each will have had their own criteria of what they expected to see, particular points of failure etc. 
Say getting on and off point was do or die in their minds. As test progressed few dogs were able to do it. Relative to the field dog skimming point could be acceptable. If majority are getting point then skimming may not play. 
In addition to judging the blind judges will/may reevaluate dogs work in previous series. What was previously good enough to be called back may when looking at dogs cumulative work against the field now justify dog being eliminated.
no simple answer to how or why judges judge.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

TonyRodgz said:


> I just read the test 5 description, a big land quad, now is gone.


. 
?? Maybe changed the test. ??


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Series 5 Land Quad Test Description
Today the 5th Series is being held at the Simonds' Elmore Ponds Testing Site, directions are located in the training/test site manual posted on the 2016 NARC BLOG IN THE LEFT MARGIN; click on the test description for each Series and it will give our location.

Today's Series 5 is a big test with four marks to be thrown on the land. These Judges are savvy to say the least, they have situated birds falling in areas the dogs are less likely to want to hunt. Great bird lacement is how we determine the dog's marking abilities.

The first mark to be thrown in this land quad is a Hen Pheasant Flyer. This gun station is nestled in the middle of this quad and measures a distance of 172 yards. The L Flyer is thrown flat and to the left, we will refer to this mark as the pLong Flyer, (L Flyer). The L Flyer is landing in short to medium native grasses.

The next mark to be thrown is situated to the right and slightly shallow of the L Flyer. The throwers are throwing this dead Hen Pheasant hard angle back toward a wood-line landing in medium cover tight against the wood-line. After all the bird are thrown, the gunners disappear and retire into the wood-line. We will refer to this mark as the Long Retired or (LR).

The third mark to be thrown in this Land Quad is a big swing across the test to the left corner of the field. The gunner's are standing a top of a levee throwing flat to the right with the bird landing in heavy, soggy marsh grass at the base of the levee. The third mark is a dead Hen Pheasant measuring a distance of 135 yards. The gunners are retiring in a brush covered holding blind at the water's edge of the pond in which they are standing to throw. We will refer to this station as the Short Retired or (SRET).

The final bird or go-bird of this Land Quad is a big swing across the entire test to the right corner of the field. This mark is shallow of all the rest of the marks and situated to the far right of the field. They are throwing a Drake Mallard Flyer flat to the right. This bird is landing in short to medium native grasses as well.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Test dog is loaded on YouTube of the fifth.


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

Here is the link for the 5th series test dog

https://youtu.be/Xx8ntZKOuGI


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

My intel tells me 17 have ran so far 4H and one DH as of 10:15


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Chad Baker said:


> Test dog is loaded on YouTube of the fifth.


. 
Nice job Margo.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

joeyrhoades said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but how would you judge that 4th series.
> 
> As someone else said, you do not know what the judges asked as far as line and what water the dog better hit.
> 
> ...


Unlike weekend field trials most National tests are not done in vacuum, cumulative work is important. Certainly not getting in the water or many casts resulting in an ugly performance would likely be dropped. Failure to not get on the point would probably be looked on more favorably than failure to get off the point. As you can see most of the dogs dropped had a previous handle so a bad blind made 2 serious mistakes. Additionally having 2 consecutive series with mistakes is not good particularly this early in the trial.


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

The blog's callbacks page has been updated. It shows some of the dogs who had handled and 2HH

http://topdognationalevents.azurewebsites.net/ViewCallbacks.aspx?eventid=5


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Well not much as far as updates today. 
Idle discussion? 
. 
So, got a message to compare work for 108 & 109 thru the 3rd.
108 made it to 4th 109 did not. 
going by blog descriptions alone...... 
108 had ok marks and missed the peninsula bit and point on blind. 
109 crushed the marks and save a few whistles up front had a pretty good blind. 
So what really happened?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Most likely the Blog descriptions are not reflective of the quality of work, or it only takes one judge to bring you back, maybe one had friend and the other did not.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

First batch of blog descriptions for 5th posted


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Looks like close to half are handling and you don't have any long birds relative to most trials that means the judges have done a great job of bird placement in my mind.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Having run those grounds over the past 20+ years @ all levels there will be many surprises based on terrain alone , not counting smart bird placement for dogs and handlers. Flatlanders will have their work cut out for them. One buddy out and one still strong.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Breck said:


> First batch of blog descriptions for 5th posted


WOW! They are getting answers for sure.


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## Laird's Retrievers (Apr 20, 2007)

Ran this test. 

I really liked the setup but it is very difficult. Dogs are mainly having trouble with pheasant flyer and the RH retired. Although a couple folks handled on the short retired. 

Description is accurate but the Blog is being generous, at least for us; dog 39. 


I thing for certain judges are in control!!

Hanging out in Stow relaxing until callbacks tonight as they should finish even with shutting down early for the workers party.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Laird's Retrievers said:


> Ran this test.
> 
> I really liked the setup but it is very difficult. Dogs are mainly having trouble with pheasant flyer and the RH retired. Although a couple folks handled on the short retired.
> 
> ...


. 
Ok, good luck to you rest of the trial.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Anyone know if they will finish today or will they have to split the test?


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Chad Baker said:


> Anyone know if they will finish today or will they have to split the test?


Based on the most recent blog post they've completed through #97, started with 101 and had a no-bird on Ted's #90 so looks like they are almost done or completely done depending upon the delay. 

On a side note, I thought the bloggers were funny using a reference to the dog's name as adjectives such as: Legendary, Boom, Honey, Stung, etc.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

based on a quick count there's about 33-36 dogs that are clean to this point, though that doesn't necessarily mean much just a #.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> based on a quick count there's about 33-36 dogs that are clean to this point, though that doesn't necessarily mean much just a #.


Clean is a misused term, there could well be a dog with a handle who is cleaner than some or many who have not handled, better to say 33+ who have not handled.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

EdA said:


> Clean is a misused term, there could well be a dog with a handle who is cleaner than some or many who have not handled, better to say 33+ who have not handled.


This is true, I was attempting to qualify my comment about clean with "doesn't necessarily mean much." 

As an interesting fact/trivia/question not directed at just Dr. Ed, but to anyone that can offer an answer . . . how many dogs with handles have won a National or were a finalist with a handle? I've only paid attention to 3-4 nationals and have a poor memory for instances like this?


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

A couple of breaks in 5. I bet those handlers are sick.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Peter Balzer said:


> This is true, I was attempting to qualify my comment about clean with "doesn't necessarily mean much."
> 
> As an interesting fact/trivia/question not directed at just Dr. Ed, but to anyone that can offer an answer . . . how many dogs with handles have won a National or were a finalist with a handle? I've only paid attention to 3-4 nationals and have a poor memory for instances like this?


Numerous Finalists have handled...dont know about a winner, will defer to someone like J. Unbehaun or WD Connor, they are like the wilkepedia of retriever trial history..

I have always wondered however about the synopsis from the RN in the follow up issue when they list the Finalist's series by series and list them as Excellent- Very Good- Good- Fair- Handled....


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

the train is running on time..WOW...major kudos to the NARC committee and judges, very refreshing to see an entire test completed in one day..looks like Mother Nature has blessed the event with good weather. 5 series in 4 days...

Do we see the traditional deep cut here after the 5th ? any guess on the amount of dogs we see carried to the 6th...


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## leemac (Dec 7, 2011)

On the call backs page of the blog a couple of dogs have a "B" in the 5th. What's the B stand for?


Never mind, I found the legend. B is for Break. That stinks worse than the H.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

BonMallari said:


> Numerous Finalists have handled...dont know about a winner, will defer to someone like J. Unbehaun or WD Connor, they are like the wilkepedia of retriever trial history..
> 
> I have always wondered however about the synopsis from the RN in the follow up issue when they list the Finalist's series by series and list them as Excellent- Very Good- Good- Fair- Handled....


I aksed a friend that judged a Natl Open about that. His only comment regarding the RN's dog summary by series was "they didn't come up with that from my book".


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

BonMallari said:


> Do we see the traditional deep cut here after the 5th ? any guess on the amount of dogs we see carried to the 6th...


I'll play. The 5th started with 68. 34 have no handles, 23 have 1 handle (assuming the callbacks page is correct). *45*


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Mark Littlejohn said:


> I'll play. The 5th started with 68. 34 have no handles, 23 have 1 handle (assuming the callbacks page is correct). *45*


I was going to set the over/under at 48...but your number looks good


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

I'll guess for 43 but hoping for higher


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

9 are gone without dropping anyone, the 5th series traditionally has a big cut, I would guess 20-25 gone unless, since they have 4 more days to play, the judges are overwhelmed with feelings of generosity.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

EdA said:


> 9 are gone without dropping anyone, the 5th series traditionally has a big cut, I would guess 20-25 gone unless, since they have 4 more days to play, the judges are overwhelmed with feelings of generosity.


It is nice to think that those who might be 'riding the fence' would be called back to the next series for an event like this (a national event) if time allows. This, given the amount of work and effort it took to get there.  That said, it would be perhaps unwise to bring someone along if you (the judge) really felt there was no way for them to finish as a finalist.

apart from that 
I am enjoying following the blog and getting to watch the test dog videos - some of the references to dog's names are hysterical -  Hoping Mr Shih and Kitty continue on.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Michael Flannery told us once that it wasn't important to get an excellent on every series, but to keep turning in steady above average work until the end and then turn in spectacular work...

The history books will show many instances where dogs with a questionable series early was carried and went on to run a whole string of excellents together, making the judges sphincters tighten up, and the armchair gallery, now replaced/expanded by the internet variety into thinking that dog might be the eventual winner...


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

EdA said:


> 9 are gone without dropping anyone, the 5th series traditionally has a big cut, I would guess 20-25 gone unless, since they have 4 more days to play, the judges are overwhelmed with feelings of generosity.


My sources tell me they have been generous through the first four. With four more days, Wednesday being an early day because of worker's party, they probably can stay that way through one more series.

I predict 48 back to the sixth.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Dr Ed, you have been to all these locations. Putting your personal biases for Texas aside, is Stowe, Vermont the most aesthetically beautiful place to hold a National? Or McCall, Idaho? Or ??


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

The fifth series was a very fun series to watch and to run

Those of you who know me well know that I almost never watch all of the dogs run a series of a field trial. In part, I get bored. In part, I have trouble sitting still. In part, it interferes with my focus.

I was parked in a beautiful spot with a better view than the gallery and watched the dogs run from 8 am until I ran as the last dog.

First, it was a very pretty view.

Second, the birds were really tight and it was interesting to watch the dogs respond to the tightness of the marks - which were very short [ 130 Left Retired, 175 Left Flyer, 195 Right Retired, and 81 Right Flyer]

There were dogs that broke
There were dogs that switched
There were dogs that hunted the old fall
There were dogs that hunted everywhere but where the birds were

And there were dogs that were spectacular to watch
- Lydia Fekula's Rocky
- Nancy White's Dottie 
come to mine

I look at the fifth series as a place for you and your dog to shine and distinguish yourself from the pack

Kitty and I did not do so, and I expect to be dropped [but, will be delighted if we are not]


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

I'm not Ed but Stowe looks a lot like east Tn and is a great place with good grounds and very scenic and I have not been to mcall. But Ronan Mt and the Mission Valley are my favorite between Stowe, Klamath Falls, Hibbing, Indian River, and Mondovi.


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## Laird's Retrievers (Apr 20, 2007)

57 back. Callbacks just posted in hotel


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Gracious judges! They want everyone to get their monies worth that's great to see.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Ted Shih said:


> Kitty and I did not do so, and I expect to be dropped [but, will be delighted if we are not]


Congratulations on being wrong.  good luck in the 6th!


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

AmiableLabs said:


> Dr Ed, you have been to all these locations. Putting your personal biases for Texas aside, is Stowe, Vermont the most aesthetically beautiful place to hold a National? Or McCall, Idaho? Or ??


obviously not DrA...but there is another location that hasn't been used in decades but Jackson Hole Wyoming was a real special place...McCall is nice at certain times of the year, and Ronan is darn near Nirvana


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

11 dropped. Using Ed's numbers there were 9 that were basically automatic and then 2 more. Sounds like some really nice judges that like to see judges work!


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Youtube video of the 5th -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx8ntZKOuGI

Very nice quality video.


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Chad Baker said:


> I'm not Ed but Stowe looks a lot like east Tn and is a great place with good grounds and very scenic and I have not been to mcall. But Ronan Mt and the Mission Valley are my favorite between Stowe, Klamath Falls, Hibbing, Indian River, and Mondovi.


No you are not Ed, you are much younger, much wealthier, and not nearly as handsome. I have never been to Vermont even though Judy won in '84 with Zip Code. My odyssey with Holland has taken me to Michigan, Wisconsin, Oregon, and Montana, all of those places were beautiful with spectacular grounds, I cannot imagine Vermont being any better. I would have liked to be there but four seconds and two thirds did not get Holland to his 6th National Amateur.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Mark Littlejohn said:


> I'll play. The 5th started with 68. 34 have no handles, 23 have 1 handle (assuming the callbacks page is correct). *45*


Meant to say "34 have no handles, 23 have 1 handle" *57*


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Obviously the judges are confident and generous.


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

Peter Balzer said:


> This is true, I was attempting to qualify my comment about clean with "doesn't necessarily mean much."
> 
> As an interesting fact/trivia/question not directed at just Dr. Ed, but to anyone that can offer an answer . . . how many dogs with handles have won a National or were a finalist with a handle? I've only paid attention to 3-4 nationals and have a poor memory for instances like this?


Danny Farmer won a National with Rocket Sam with a handle on a early series.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> how many dogs with handles have won a National or were a finalist with a handle? I've only paid attention to 3-4 nationals and have a poor memory for instances like this?


Finalists many and too numerous to count, winners not unusual historically, NAFC-FC Trumarc's Zip Code won with a handle.


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

Tobias said:


> Congratulations on being wrong.  good luck in the 6th!


I will 2nd that!


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

I took a few minutes to look back at old Retriever News blog callback and do some light research on more recent numbers comparing # of dogs without a handle entering the 10th series compared to total # of finalists that year. 


NRCNARC "Clean"Finalists%"Clean"Finalists%2015121486%161984%201413132013201251242%101283%201181173%101471%2010111292%61250%2009111292%

Interesting to see the numbers and how they compare. There seems to be a high number of handles in the 10th series and even some double handles

There were a few years I couldn't get the blog callbacks to load so I missed the data.


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

They are rocking and rolling this morning. already ran 25+ dogs.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

I have to give kudos to the Blog personnel - holy crap, the times they are showing for being on the line and then trying to keep up with the pace of the reporting! Nice job and thank you!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> I took a few minutes to look back at old Retriever News blog callback and do some light research on more recent numbers comparing # of dogs without a handle entering the 10th series compared to total # of finalists that year.
> 
> 
> NRCNARC "Clean"Finalists%"Clean"Finalists%2015121486%161984%201413132013201251242%101283%201181173%101471%2010111292%61250%2009111292%
> ...


People handle in the 10th to preserve their Finalist status, if you pickup in the 10th series you are not a Finalist, most handlers are realistic about their status and are unwilling to roll the dice and commit a game ending mistake like a switch. Not all dogs who run the 10th are automatically Finalists.


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## MSRETRIEVERS (Jan 25, 2006)

What happened to Ali? Looks like they skipped him in the blog

Nevermind.....101. FC-AFC Lanes Lets Get Ready To Rumble, "Ali," LM, Bobby Lane 




Came to the line 10:14 am, 2 whistles to tulles, 2 whistles to get past the trees, 2 whistles near the end to complete the blind.

Note: This dog ran out of order because he wasn’t on the grounds when his number was original call.


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## Laird's Retrievers (Apr 20, 2007)

The Blind was very fast. We had 5 holding blinds set up, marshals are doing an excellent job. 

The end of the blind was the danger, many folks tweeted a "hunt Em up" whistle or come in short of the bird and dog got loose. Some even went way around tree island past holding blind etx. 

I wish they would have used a duck instead of hen pheasant but that is not my call. I just believe once you are within 3 ft of pin you should get bird. With this blind you could not do that and some people truly, inho, failed the blind because the dog got behind the clump of trees, back in the deep cover and even came in past the island of trees and they had to handle back to the stack. 

It's in the books and I am very interested in callbacks.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Laird's Retrievers said:


> The Blind was very fast. We had 5 holding blinds set up, marshals are doing an excellent job.
> 
> The end of the blind was the danger, many folks tweeted a "hunt Em up" whistle or come in short of the bird and dog got loose. Some even went way around tree island past holding blind etx.
> 
> ...


I thought it was interesting they chose a hen pheasant. I can see where doing so would show which dogs were in control at the end of the blind.


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

So, are they running the 7th series today? Or waiting until tomorrow.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Callbacks are posted. Only dropped 4 dogs 43,61,66, and 90 (sorry Ted). Moving to the 7th series now. No indication of what it will be yet, but hopefully the blog will have coverage.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

joeyrhoades said:


> So, are they running the 7th series today? Or waiting until tomorrow.


It's only 12:30ish there....my guess is they will split this series


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## Kajun Kamakazi (May 17, 2011)

No poison birds or interrupted set of marks yet. We'll see what the 7th is going to be


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

I was told 7th series is going to be watermarks in a stick pond.


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## 8mmag (Jan 1, 2010)

This is the description that caught my eye:

_"Needed 1 on the levee, carried through the tulles, near the left hand group of trees. Gave one near the trees, gave a come in whistle for the dog to reappear so that he could be casted to the bird for completion."_

The dog was carried even though the come-in was used to get the dog back in sight...


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

This is extremely entertaining. Fifty-three to the seventh, and it is only Wednesday. I am truly enjoying myself watching this.

Hypothetically they finish the seventh tomorrow, and maybe an eighth water blind. Going into Friday to run the ninth.

It would be so cool to see the judges to carry dogs for as long as the dog work allows them, no penciling out. Then after the ninth, they make the cut, and the finalists could be called real finalists.


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## Parker M. (Mar 6, 2014)

In a trial does every series matter at the end? Say a dog has 1 H through the 10th against a dog that has no handles but doesn't do near as well in the 10th. Could that Handle come back to haunt him
or is every series and cuts graded on the one series alone... If that makes any sense at all.


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## Dan Storts (Apr 19, 2011)

How many will break in the 7th?


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

Dan Storts said:


> How many will break in the 7th?



I say at least 3.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Dan Storts said:


> How many will break in the 7th?


The ones most likely already broke on the second flier of quad, unlikely that there will be breaks on a triple with one flier last bird down.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Have they had an honor yet ? this test with a sluiced bird might have been an inviting situation for both dogs


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

BonMallari said:


> Have they had an honor yet ? this test with a sluiced bird might have been an inviting situation for both dogs


Honored in the third series


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Watching Mike run test dog on 6th land blind I didnt really like the end of the blind. 
If you watch test dog he is under tree branches as he approaches bird and is hit with a whistle. Dog stopped perfectly on line in the little patch of green between tree island and i guess a single tree just deep of bird. A few feet left dog would be out of sight. 
What i didnt care for is if you had a left turning dog, were on line and blew where Mike did you could lose dog behind tree. Or if dog was on line at tree and looked to wrap by the time whistle blast reached dog it could be behind tree island. 
Anyway at that distance having zero room to recover on the left is a bit stressful. From blog seems several dogs wrapped.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

BonMallari said:


> this test with a sluiced bird might have been an inviting situation for both dogs


I saw the term "sluiced" bird on the NARC blog. What exactly does that mean? I know the definition of sluiced but not understanding what it means in this context.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> I saw the term "sluiced" bird on the NARC blog. What exactly does that mean? I know the definition of sluiced but not understanding what it means in this context.


. 
Bird is shot, hits water. At moment dog would normally be released by judges gun fires round at bird in water.


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## canuckkiller (Apr 16, 2009)

A dangerous gimmick -


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Ran a 3rd series Qualifying water blind in that same stick pond (4 years ago)which required long entry, complete swim thru entire pond , exit and another 40 yards to bird. Dogs unfamiliar with stick ponds will have issues in the same way lily ponds with flowers can be tough slugging and confusing. Self elimination no pencil needed here.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

It test the steadiness of the dog. I'm not that good of shot that I kill every duck and sometimes have to sluice a bird when hunting. I would like to know why you think its a dangerous gimmick? And lets have a discussion about the pros and cons of sluiced birds.


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## Dan Storts (Apr 19, 2011)

Chad Baker said:


> It test the steadiness of the dog. I'm not that good of shot that I kill every duck and sometimes have to sluice a bird when hunting. I would like to know why you think its a dangerous gimmick? And lets have a discussion about the pros and cons of sluiced birds.


Pro: It gives another opportunity to kill the bird so they don't waste time trying to catch a live duck which may be diving.

Con: Distance and experience, especially of those involved, would be the main factor.


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## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

Chad Baker said:


> It test the steadiness of the dog. I'm not that good of shot that I kill every duck and sometimes have to sluice a bird when hunting. I would like to know why you think its a dangerous gimmick? And lets have a discussion about the pros and cons of sluiced birds.


Pro ..Eliminates crippled swimmers/divers which can greatly effect the mechanics and fairness of the test.


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## Doug Main (Mar 26, 2003)

Chad Baker said:


> It test the steadiness of the dog. I'm not that good of shot that I kill every duck and sometimes have to sluice a bird when hunting. I would like to know why you think its a dangerous gimmick? And lets have a discussion about the pros and cons of sluiced birds.


I've never heard it referred to as a gimmick before, It is almost universally used to ensure that the fliers are all dead when a flier is shot over water. After all, it's pretty disrupting to a test when you have a swimming, diving cripple, that is called a no-bird and has to be sleuced and a pick-up dog brought in to retrieve it.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

con that happened to me one day in a trial had a really short flyer barely made the water young inexperienced gunner shot the water 20 yds past where the duck landed. Dog got the flyer when sent for the next bird directly under the intended arc dog ran to where the sluice was and hunted for a bird eventually working his way out to the middle bird then hammering the last bird! Breck might recall that day he got some titles! CB


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

#s 38, 42 , 46 , 47=Pick Up , 48 , 51 handles on the same bird. Self-elimination - requires marking skills today.


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## Doug Main (Mar 26, 2003)

swliszka said:


> #s 38, 42 , 46 , 47=Pick Up , 48 , 51 handles on the same bird. Self-elimination - requires marking skills today.


I doubt the test gets any easier as the drag back builds up on that land bridge.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

I am predicting in 2016 there are going to be finalists with handles. :2c: :mrgreen:


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

canuckkiller said:


> A dangerous gimmick -


I totally disagree. Its creates fairness. Let's say it's not done for all. Yours is the only flyer in the series that is sluiced and your dog breaks, wouldn't it then seem more fair if all birds were sluiced?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Chad Baker said:


> con that happened to me one day in a trial had a really short flyer barely made the water young inexperienced gunner shot the water 20 yds past where the duck landed. Dog got the flyer when sent for the next bird directly under the intended arc dog ran to where the sluice was and hunted for a bird eventually working his way out to the middle bird then hammering the last bird! Breck might recall that day he got some titles! CB


. 
Was that in the thick lilly pad pond Chad? I was in holding behind you hoping we could do the test. Pretty sure if you had done it blue was yours instead ours. Tough game ain't it?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Watching Mike run test dog a killer of a test. 
On left retired lots of places to go if dog flares flyer guns to right. 
Even getting in at guns test dog faded right. 
I might try sending dog right over flyer guns shoulders like jumping boat on shoreline. 
Trained a bit in that pond and like it.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

Just a normal FT and the breaks of the game! I think I was the first to shake your hand! That's why we pay our money and show up for a .50ct ribbon! We are all crazy!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Chad Baker said:


> for a .50ct ribbon!


you must not be in charge of ribbon procurement....


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

I run two sided dogs and if I watched that many turn right I might run off the right side and try tuck my dog tighter to the flyer or try to get the line over the flyer guns or left even. I hate to lie to the but sometimes you get better lines that way. I've been known to take some risky chances at nationals and have gotten burned before and every now and then hit a homerun.


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## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

No Ed I just mow, pump water, plant cover strips, and always have a big tailgate party! Ok a 3 dollar ribbon!


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

And just to be clear to those wondering, if you did send dog in left of flyer guns for LR, swimming over flyer fall does not constitute returning to old fall, if dog keeps chugging of course.
. 
Warch test video if you haven't.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Chad Baker said:


> Just a normal FT and the breaks of the game! I think I was the first to shake your hand! That's why we pay our money and show up for a .50ct ribbon! We are all crazy!


. 
Thanks Chad, remember that well!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Chad Baker said:


> No Ed I just mow, pump water, plant cover strips, and always have a big tailgate party! Ok a 3 dollar ribbon!


You left out landowner, equipment operator, and jack of all trades, I think maybe around $4.50 these days, still a paltry reward for a rather expensive hobby.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

That R bridge bird has to be a bugger especially if dog gets left onto land at guns. 
Great test design.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Dogs #s 58 , 59 , 63, 64, 70 ,72, 73 , 78, 80, 82, 85 have all run it with NO handles.Some big hunts on LR. So , self-elimination previous, good marking for these dogs.


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## Parker M. (Mar 6, 2014)

Wohooo Go Choco. #58. Sounds like he is doing well.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Clarified by fellow poster that #s 47 and 51 both broke , were given numbers , sent , eventually picked up.


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## Laird's Retrievers (Apr 20, 2007)

I ran this test as the second dog-- dog 39. I was extremely worried about a break, even though Wiley is 10 she loves flyers and at 40 yrds in your face, ummm. 

She sat very nicely, the long retired bird lands/is directly behind the flyer gunners, the true line is over the gunners to the bird. Thus you can send tight to the flyer, either on right or left side. Wiley went on the right side heading directly online to the bird, but... there is a huge set of rocks, that must look like a wall and she peeled off to the right. Some dogs are heading left of the rock wall and then into the pond past the land bridge. Wily fell into the trap on the right, came up early on bridge cheated the second piece of water which pushed her up into the trees but popped out at the holding blind and found bird with a loop or two. But we did the test and have yet to handle, I am very, very excited about our performance as this is my first national. We have met my goal of getting to the seventh series and every thing else is gravy....

Definitely a marking test, a test of steadiness and you must sluice a water flyer to make it fair. This test had me so puckered, my nose started bleeding in the holding blind from the pressure......


Tests have been extremely challenging to run, extremely generous callbacks and the whole team putting on the event have been a joy to run under, work with and help.

Just got back from running three water blinds.. now off to watch the last 23 dogs run the 7th.

Chris


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## Parker M. (Mar 6, 2014)

Laird's Retrievers said:


> I ran this test as the second dog-- dog 39. I was extremely worried about a break, even though Wiley is 10 she loves flyers and at 40 yrds in your face, ummm.
> 
> She sat very nicely, the long retired bird lands/is directly behind the flyer gunners, the true line is over the gunners to the bird. Thus you can send tight to the flyer, either on right or left side. Wiley went on the right side heading directly online to the bird, but... there is a huge set of rocks, that must look like a wall and she peeled off to the right. Some dogs are heading left of the rock wall and then into the pond past the land bridge. Wily fell into the trap on the right, came up early on bridge cheated the second piece of water which pushed her up into the trees but popped out at the holding blind and found bird with a loop or two. But we did the test and have yet to handle, I am very, very excited about our performance as this is my first national. We have met my goal of getting to the seventh series and every thing else is gravy....
> 
> ...


Thanks for your insight! It is a blast keeping up with this. Huge congrats making it to the 7th and good luck with the rest


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

From blog, early dogs doing long mark well. Seems handlers running today may benefit from better conditions.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

swliszka said:


> Clarified by fellow poster that #s 47 and 51 both broke , were given numbers , sent , eventually picked up.


The callback sheet continues to identify 47 as a PU and 51 as a H, is B a dirty word?


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

According to the Blog #17 just had a stellar performance, and after a no-bird no less. Exciting!


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

EdA said:


> The callback sheet continues to identify 47 as a PU and 51 as a H, is B a dirty word?


Perhaps to the remaining Nat'l contestants, the "B-word" is taboo? Like speaking of a mid-game no-hitter?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

EdA said:


> The callback sheet continues to identify 47 as a PU and 51 as a H, is B a dirty word?


. 
Well if dog was allowed to continue conceivably a confused on send, return to handler and resend could be misinterpreted as a break by gallery. 
? 
Cant imagine a break would be permitted to run test.? Maybe used instead of pick up dog?


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Well remember , that includes me, the blogs are not the books nor are we the judges. It is bad enough when you are a contestant and sometimes life is good or bad. Galleries are also notorious for bad assessments. EdA you tell us what you think the B will count for since I never stood on the line for a National.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Breck said:


> .
> Well if dog was allowed to continue conceivably a confused on send, return to handler and resend could be misinterpreted as a break by gallery.
> ?
> Cant imagine a break would be permitted to run test.? Maybe used instead of pick up dog?


Quote from the Blog for 51 The dog broke, the Handler yelled "Here", the dog returned to the mat and was given a number.. 
The bloggers are much closer to the line than the gallery


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Again putting faith in the blog, it seems today's 7th series work is much better than yesterday's. Wind? Morning sun vs afternoon? Does anyone know? There has been no Pat Burns or other color commentary.

Edit: Looks like I may have just jinxed a few


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

GO Susan and Ruckus!!!!

I am so happy and excited I can hardly contain myself!


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

I still wish the judges would have waited until after the ninth to pull the plug. But I am sure they have their considerations.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

25 back to the 8th! So fun to follow!
18 of 25 remaining have not handled
10 of the 28 dogs cut after the 7th had not handled


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## MSRETRIEVERS (Jan 25, 2006)

This is what gets me....
10 of the 28 dogs cut after the 7th had not handled and the fact that 7 of the 25 that are still in it have handled.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

In reference to what EdA said, just because you haven't handled doesn't mean you are "clean" and sometimes a quick, crisp handle can be better than a large hunt. 

Its also about the whole body of work. 

We're lucky to get the blog information, but it can also be misleading.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

MSRETRIEVERS said:


> This is what gets me....
> 10 of the 28 dogs cut after the 7th had not handled and the fact that 7 of the 25 that are still in it have handled.


It is all about the dog work. You can't count handles or lack of them on marks; You can't count whistles on a blind.

Why do we use them? As an imprecise barometer to give us a _feeling_ how the dog did, not a true accurate measurement of what the dog actually did.


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## Parker M. (Mar 6, 2014)

Choco made it to the 8th it appears! Hope he keeps on killing it.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

are we looking at a FRIDAY finish...8th series this afternoon...9 and 10 tomorrow...and then Sat just in case they have to go one more


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## rsfavor (Jul 9, 2007)

The overhead shot for the 8th series is great. Looks like they used a drone rather than the satellite image?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

AmiableLabs said:


> I still wish the judges would have waited until after the ninth to pull the plug. But I am sure they have their considerations.


Only speculating that they had a significant number of dogs on the bubble who were indistinguishable and would need to be brought back or dropped as a group and that bringing them back would have created an unworkable time management problem. People get too caught up in this handle vs no handle when there are lots of other birds to judge and a dog with a handle may be much better on every other bird than one who did not handle, hunting the field is not a good mark.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Blog for dog #94 --

"1 to get in the water, 1 in the water to tighten the line to the shore, 3 to get on the first point, dog did not get the point,......."

-- I am confused. Dog literally never got on the point, or eventually got on the point but figuratively because three whistles didn't get the point was supposed to get on the point?


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Three whistles to try to get the dog on the point is the way I took it ..I would guess the dog kept digging back in the water with each cast and missed the point after the third whistle . ?


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

EdA said:


> Only speculating that they had a significant number of dogs on the bubble who were indistinguishable and would need to be brought back or dropped as a group and that bringing them back would have created an unworkable time management problem. *People get too caught up in this handle vs no handle when there are lots of other birds to judge anda dog with a handle may be much better on every other bird than one who did not handle, hunting the field is not a good mark*.


Amen to that.


----------



## byounglove (Mar 2, 2005)

9th series Friday water Quad
10th series Saturday. 

19 dogs back to 9th.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

byounglove said:


> 9th series Friday water Quad
> 10th series Saturday.
> 
> 19 dogs back to 9th.


Thank you Barbara. Go #92!!!


----------



## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Calbacks on blog. Scroll down a bit


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## Parker M. (Mar 6, 2014)

Breck said:


> Calbacks on blog. Scroll down a bit


Thank you! Wouldn't have found that.


----------



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Very happy for Dave Opseth and Reina! In the 9th . Reina is Crosby's sister


----------



## Kajun Kamakazi (May 17, 2011)

Ali got dropped. His blind didn't sound that bad from the blog but of course, that doesn't always paint the whole picture.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

I have been spoiled this year by the staff at RETRIEVER NEWS because of all the wonderful videos and pictures of the tests and the competitors. Videos of the test dogs, Pat Burns commentaries and interviews, even drone shots of the test. Just wonderful coverage.

It makes me feel like I am supposed to send a small contribution to someone at RN as a vote of thanks.


----------



## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

AmiableLabs said:


> I have been spoiled this year by the staff at RETRIEVER NEWS because of all the wonderful videos and pictures of the tests and the competitors. Videos of the test dogs, Pat Burns commentaries and interviews, even drone shots of the test. Just wonderful coverage.
> *
> It makes me feel like I am supposed to send a small contribution to someone at RN as a vote of thanks.*


*
*


don't give them any ideas, if they thought they could charge a fee for accessing internet coverage they would probably do so...


----------



## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Way to go Susan and Ruckus on the 9th! From the looks of the series these dogs have to have some extra guts!


----------



## Russ (Jan 3, 2003)

This is one of the best National events for those of us sitting at home. Great work by the FT committees, great judging and great reporting have made this a wonderful National to follow from my armchair.


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

Russ said:


> This is one of the best National events for those of us sitting at home. Great work by the FT committees, great judging and great reporting have made this a wonderful National to follow from my armchair.


AGREED!! I am thoroughly enjoying the coverage.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

1957 National Amateur --boat mark. 2016 National Amateur- boat mark. The old is new and the new is old. Love the marks. This is a marking National on substantial grounds,


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

1984 NRC Lufkn TX boat mark memory bird retired
1986 NARC Bend OR boat mark memory bird not retired


----------



## lbbuckler (Jun 7, 2008)

Loved the interview with Mattie! She's a superstar!


----------



## Parker M. (Mar 6, 2014)

Well dang, Choco broke on the flyer it appears. Hell
of a run though. Stout competition left. Will
be great ending Saturday


----------



## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

#2 Tubb got a raw deal...should have been a No Bird since the flyer was a cripple and flew/ran out of the AOF..


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## joeyrhoades (Feb 23, 2015)

Probably did not know it until Tubb could not find it. I am sure the judges took note of it.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

BonMallari said:


> #2 Tubb got a raw deal...should have been a No Bird since the flyer was a cripple and flew/ran out of the AOF..


How do you know it ran out of the area of the fall, just because it was alive does not mean it moved. It was described as a long flier, that happens sometimes but does not imply unfair, it is the only flier the running dog sees, it does not see the others.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

EdA said:


> How do you know it ran out of the area of the fall, just because it was alive does not mean it moved. It was described as a long flier, that happens sometimes but does not imply unfair, it is the only flier the running dog sees, it does not see the others.


The blog update sort of sounds like it was out of the AOF, but only the judges know for sure... from the blog... _"the flyer was shot longer and further down the hill than all the rest, the dog arrived in the scent of the area hunted it hard in and around the area before having to be Handled to retrieve a LIVE hen pheasant out of the fall area. two quick whistles got the dog to the bird." _


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

birddogn_tc said:


> The blog update sort of sounds like it was out of the AOF, but only the judges know for sure... from the blog... _"the flyer was shot longer and further down the hill than all the rest, the dog arrived in the scent of the area hunted it hard in and around the area before having to be Handled to retrieve a LIVE hen pheasant out of the fall area. two quick whistles got the dog to the bird." _


I'm sure she handled the dog to their bird's AOF. 
Otherwise, I'm hugely impressed that Martha could see a moving hen pheasant from 220 yds to know where to handle him...


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Mark Littlejohn said:


> I'm sure she handled the dog to their bird's AOF.
> Otherwise, I'm hugely impressed that Martha could see a moving hen pheasant from 220 yds to know where to handle him...


I was curious how she could possibly know where it was in order to handle Tubb to it. But then again, she's really good.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> The blog update sort of sounds like it was out of the AOF, but only the judges know for sure... from the blog... _"the flyer was shot longer and further down the hill than all the rest, the dog arrived in the scent of the area hunted it hard in and around the area before having to be Handled to retrieve a LIVE hen pheasant out of the fall area. two quick whistles got the dog to the bird." _


The people who write the blog are reporters except for Pat none have never run much less judged a National. It is a given that pheasant fliers are inconsistent, if the judges wanted a controlled bird they would have made it a controlled bird. I find it offensive that 1) people who are not there 2) people who do not run field trials 3) people who have never competed at a National 4) people who have never judged a field trial feel empowered to second guess three judges whose combined experience exceeds 150 all age stakes and throw them under the internet bus.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

What happened with Susan and Ruckus?


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

EdA said:


> The people who write the blog are reporters except for Pat none have never run much less judged a National. It is a given that pheasant fliers are inconsistent, if the judges wanted a controlled bird they would have made it a controlled bird. I find it offensive that 1) people who are not there 2) people who do not run field trials 3) people who have never competed at a National 4) people who have never judged a field trial feel empowered to second guess three judges whose combined experience exceeds 150 all age stakes and throw them under the internet bus.



OK objection withdrawn...my error


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> I was curious how she could possibly know where it was in order to handle Tubb to it. But then again, she's really good.


Because as a handler at that level you watch the birds down especially fliers so if you need to handle you know where the bird is.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

13 dogs to tomorrows 10th series...

always reminds me of the lines from Top Gun

Goose : its the bottom of the ninth and the score is tied..

Ice : You ready for this Maverick ?

Maverick : just a walk in the park ....


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## fishin444 (Apr 23, 2012)

Just a tough break for Tubb. I'm sure the judges talked the situation out among themselves and deemed it a fair mark. Not being there I can't be sure if the bird moved on him. I got to give it the Tubb and Martha, they won in 2014. Had a handle in 2015 in the first series I believe, and still made it to the tenth. Now still in at the end of 2016. IMHO outstanding.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

EdA said:


> The people who write the blog are reporters except for Pat none have never run much less judged a National. It is a given that pheasant fliers are inconsistent, if the judges wanted a controlled bird they would have made it a controlled bird. I find it offensive that 1) people who are not there 2) people who do not run field trials 3) people who have never competed at a National 4) people who have never judged a field trial feel empowered to second guess three judges whose combined experience exceeds 150 all age stakes and throw them under the internet bus.


I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't second guessing anyone. In fact, I was trying to point out how the blog posts can be misunderstood and only the opinion of the blogger and the judges opinions are what ultimately matters. And I quoted the blog to show everyone where the misunderstanding could be coming from....


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## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

EdA said:


> Because as a handler at that level you watch the birds down especially fliers so if you need to handle you know where the bird is.


 Amen to that Ed. The pro I train with (Jerry Patopea) constantly is on me to watch the flier, for that very reason....in case you have to handle. I am getting better at it, but once in a while still I find myself thinking, "I hope my dog marked that bird, cause I have no idea where it landed". Pop and throws are easy cause you can watch the falls during the test dog, from the gallery and the holding blind before you run. They are generally very consistent, but fliers can land all over the place, especially pheasants. I have gotten to hate fliers for that very reason and have thought to myself, I ought to run in Canada because there are no filers.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

wetdog said:


> "I hope my dog marked that bird, cause I have no idea where it landed".


I have lost track how many times my dog saved me because she watched the flier when I was watching her and should have been watching the flier.


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## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

Holy crap, the 10th is a hard, hard test. That check down bird is a bird from hell with 3 fliers being shot. There will be a clear winner after this!


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

All handles so far on that last bird including the test dog, seems according to the blog the handles are to avoid a switch


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> All handles so far on that last bird including the test dog, seems according to the blog the handles are to avoid a switch


All the handles are on the dead pheasant which so far everyone has gone for last, since the three fliers have already been retrieved by definition it is not a switch but returning to an old fall. A switch is hunting a bird, failing to find, and retrieving another bird.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

EdA said:


> All the handles are on the dead pheasant which so far everyone has gone for last, since the three fliers have already been retrieved by definition it is not a switch but returning to an old fall. A switch is hunting a bird, failing to find, and retrieving another bird.


Thanks for the correction. Is returning to an old fall a D/Q (like switching)?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Whoa! What a good National for Barb & Ruben. 
. 
. 
http://2016narc.blogspot.com/search/label/92?m=0


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## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

Peter Balzer said:


> Thanks for the correction. Is returning to an old fall a D/Q (like switching)?


Yes it is. It falls under the major fault category in the rule book.


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## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

EdA said:


> All the handles are on the dead pheasant which so far everyone has gone for last, since the three fliers have already been retrieved by definition it is not a switch but returning to an old fall. A switch is hunting a bird, failing to find, and retrieving another bird.


I am not there, but it would seem that going outside, outside, short retired, then long punch bird would be the way to try this in a perfect world. Maybe some of the handlers tried that, but the dog did not check down and went long. The two dogs that have done it so far though did get the short bird last. I know if my dog went long past a retired check down, I would have pretty slim odds picking that short bird up next.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> Thanks for the correction. Is returning to an old fall a D/Q (like switching)?


The rule specifically states "returning to and systematically hunting an old fall", obviously the insertion of the word systematically calls for some interpretation. My idea of systematically and your idea of systematically may not be the same.


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## Twin Willows Labs (Feb 4, 2014)

Are we going to see a winner with a handle on the final series?


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## TonyRodgz (Feb 8, 2010)

joeyrhoades said:


> Probably did not know it until Tubb could not find it. I am sure the judges took note of it.





Twin Willows Labs said:


> Are we going to see a winner with a handle on the final series?


It has happened before. 2013 NARC


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

In pre national training it's common to do a short check down retired hen pheasant with stand out guns deep. Doing it at the trial is another thing.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Twin Willows Labs said:


> Are we going to see a winner with a handle on the final series?


Not likely but who knows. 2 dogs just did it w/o handling. Seems both had good national performance.


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## Robert E (Jun 9, 2009)

Anything possible, only judges know for sure based on total body of work.


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## weathered (Mar 17, 2011)

NAFC Coolwater's Hawkeye Legend


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