# Rare, multi-colored labs???



## Laura McCaw (Jul 28, 2010)

Okay so I was searching ads and I came across this listing:









*Rare, unique registered 6 month old multi colored male lab. Both parents are registered, Dam is 50 pounds, Sire is 80 pounds. Both parents on site, puppies are being raised in our home handled by our kids daily. Puppy is UTC on all puppy shots and monthly deworming. We accept credit cards and checks thru paypal only, but remember to add 3.5% for their fees. Please call/email for other payment options. Shipping not included in price of puppy. These puppies are pure breed labs, there are many other reputable breeders which have had multi colored labs. Here is some research info; http://www.littlecreekacres.com/mismarks.html I don’t want to hear from other breeders giving their ignorant opinions about multi colored labs! Sold as Pets only without breeding rights.*

My question is, can this be turned into AKC? I am not posting this to start anything, but I am concerned that there are people out there that will actually fall for this. I understand about mismarks and such, but to advertise them this way and also, personally, I do not see 100% lab in either pups face. So possibly the neighbors dog had a visit??


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

IT IS POSSIBLE that this is a pure bred Labrador. He has A LOT of color but it is possible.
MY first show bitch produced splashed pups in all three litters with three different sires. Some of the pups had tan marking over the eyes , on cheeks, on the chest and on the butt.
Do more research on splashed and mismarked Labradors. Woodhaven Labradors, now Kelrobin has a great list of articles. I don't have the link handy.......

HOPEFULLY they are not jacking the price up becuase it is "rare"!!!! But it is not illegal to MARKET pups any way you want.
I sold mine as pets , with a discount or gave away.


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

Could be legit. Buyer beware that it's on the "up and up" and a sheppard didn't get "in here" during the cycle!


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

The dog is "tan point" same as found in Doberman's and some hounds. It is not registerable as black (if properly represented) so not registerable by AKC. 
On page #299 of The Official Book of the Labrador Retriever published by the Labrador Retriever Club Inc. is a picture of a tan point pup. The caption reads"A tan-point Labrador Retriever phenotype, homozygous recessive for the tan pint gene. There is also a picture of a tan point chocolate pup.


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## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

Completely possible, and you can figure out the genetics from this.










Also this is what the breed standard has to say about it.

"Color
The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification. A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but not desirable. White hairs from aging or scarring are not to be misinterpreted as brindling. Black--Blacks are all black. *A black with brindle markings or a black with tan markings is a disqualification*. Yellow--Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog. Chocolate--Chocolates can vary in shade from light to dark chocolate. Chocolate with brindle or tan markings is a disqualification."


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

David McLendon said:


> The dog is "tan point" same as found in Doberman's and some hounds. It is not registerable as black (if properly represented) so not registerable by AKC.


 
What? It's just disqualified from the conformation ring as not conforming to the standard. And, I personally wouldn't breed it. AKC registration is to show that it's a pure bred dog.


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## babays (Mar 25, 2010)

Anyone else see the dog leg behind the black dog? Looks like another pup with the same markings laying down in the background. Does not look like a purebred litter to me. It would appear to be a litter of mutts that happened to have one black pup so they are trying to trick people into thinking they are labs.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Labrador_Lover said:


> Okay so I was searching ads and I came across this listing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly what do you see wrong with this?
What are you going to say in your complaint to the AKC? Do you have personal knowledge that there are any lies or false statements in their ad? Did you witness the breeding?
Do you even know if they are AKC registered? There are other registries you know.
They advertise the pup as being "rare and unique"; surely you don't disagree with that do you?
They say both parents are registered and on site and give their respective weights; do you know that to be incorrect?
They claim pups are being raised in their home and socialized by their kids daily. That is a good thing to me, do you know that to be false?
They claim pups are current on their shots, and wormings. Once again I view that as a responsible breeding practice. Do you know it to be false?

Lastly, they are selling the pup without breeding rights on a limited registration, which I believe is the responsible thing to do with mismarked pups. What would you recomend they do with the pup, destroy it?

The only thing I see wrong with the ad is it tlists no health clearances on the parents. That doesn't preclude them from having them, additionally I'd guess that over 90% of breeding don't have clearances

I'm all for the breeding police, but you must remember that not all breeding are meant to be able to play our dog games and pursue FT, HT, CH, agility hunting etc capable breedings.


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## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

I will go as far as to say that the photo almost looks photo shopped to put the black dog in the pic -- or that the tan marked pup has 5 legs.
Look at the size difference. Black dogs butt is level with the top of the tan dogs head.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

A simple DNA test of sire, dam, and pups would resolve any potential conflict. Were I the breeder, I'd have it done.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

I would like a better photo of the tail - in this picture the tail looks very thin for a lab, no feathering. This could be the clue left behind by the fence jumper. And cant a litter have two sires as well?

Morris


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

tom said:


> I will go as far as to say that the photo almost looks photo shopped to put the black dog in the pic -- or that the tan marked pup has 5 legs.
> Look at the size difference. Black dogs butt is level with the top of the tan dogs head.


Yes, something very odd going on with that 2nd shoulder and forearm between the 2 dogs.....

Morris


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

Since this has now entered the world of ridiculousness:


This here is a multi-colored miniature lab. Note the very light cream/white coat with the eye camo. Eye camo is for ambushing the pheasants as the dog hides in the cover, concealing all but the tip of the tail and the eyes. The tail is slowly waved back and forth, catching the pheasants attention and then once the bird is lured in-the dog launches on its unsuspecting prey. The miniature size is very handy, allowing the owner of the mini-multicolored lab to fold up said "dawg" and place them in the rear game bag. 

You can be the owner of one of these extremely rare mini-multi's for the low low price of $3,000.00. EIC/CMN/PUPD clear-I'm just sure of it. 

hey I may be on to something............

one born every minute regards,


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

quite the tongue on that black.... and where IS the back R leg on the multi?


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## Laura McCaw (Jul 28, 2010)

mjh345 said:


> Exactly what do you see wrong with this?
> What are you going to say in your complaint to the AKC? Do you have personal knowledge that there are any lies or false statements in their ad? Did you witness the breeding?
> Do you even know if they are AKC registered? There are other registries you know.
> They advertise the pup as being "rare and unique"; surely you don't disagree with that do you?
> ...


I did not post this to argue, and I did not COPY and PASTE the entire ad because I did not want anyone on here to contact these particular people but I can tell you the listing also mentioned Labradore (notice the spelling) several times and they also listed AKC.... I am sorry, but if you can not even spell the breed that you are breeding, then by all means, you are NOT a responsible breeder and no, there are NO health certs as I personally contacted them and asked about any of them. 

Also, these markings are NOT rare and unique as I can find this coloration in the pound any day of the week. I also never mentioned that I, personally, would contact AKC to complain, but I feel this is where we do eventually get a lot of mixed breeds out there that are registered. Also, I do not believe these people to be responsible because mistakes can happen and IF I am going to sale a dog with mismarks, I would make darn sure that is just what it is, a mismark, therefore I would have a DNA test done to do that, OTHERWISE, I would place the pup in a home without charging a fee unless it is a small rehoming fee, which by the way, is not the case with this ad.


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## Laura McCaw (Jul 28, 2010)

windycanyon said:


> quite the tongue on that black.... and where IS the back R leg on the multi?


My thoughts exactly on the discolored tongue, although I, personally, have never seen purple tongues on labs, instead I have seen them on chows and "mixed breeds", but hey, I guess it could happen????


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

This is from the website link they refer potential customers to, at the end of the link.

*Buyer Beware!!*

Labrador puppies with odd markings could absolutely be mixed-bred puppies. If you consider a mismarked Labrador please educate yourself and make sure the breeder is someone you trust. Remember, the whole litter will probably NEVER be mismarked. Please don’t ever let a breeder convince you that a mismarked puppy is worth more money than the rest of the litter because it is “rare”.

I don't agree or disagree with the seller, but conspiracy theories aside, the photo looks like a "real" picture of three dogs.

I don't see any missing legs or added shoulders...

I'm a little surprised nobody noticed the kennel floor looks like a poorly done concrete job though.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

A lady at the dog show this morning asked me," what breed was Kaie?" I told her she was a giant Labradoodle. She didn't even look at me twice before she told me she loved her wavy hair...

I think the lady could possibly also be interested in a multi-colored lab too..


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

Several years ago, my neighbor had a similiar litter...I questioned whether they were labs and he stated yes...they looked like labs and several had black and tan markings to different degrees...I could not say that I spent the entire breeding cycle with the dam so can't say yeah or neah...

Perhaps someone jumped the fence or perhaps a major mismark??? I've seen several chocolates that age with similiar black and tan configurations...and woodhaven has a similiar mismark in brindle.

Just glad none of my pups had anything more than bolo marks...


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## Chelsey's Triple H (Dec 22, 2009)

Labrador_Lover said:


> My thoughts exactly on the discolored tongue, although I, personally, have never seen purple tongues on labs, instead I have seen them on chows and "mixed breeds", but hey, I guess it could happen????


Spots/color on the tongue doesn't make the dog a mixed breed. The spotting is the human equivalent of freckles or birthmarks, it's just extra deposits of skin pigment. The Chow and Shar-pei are the only breeds with the blue-black trait for a solid colored tongue but any dog, including purebreds, can have spots on their tongue, just as they can have similar spots on their skin under the coat.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Chelsey's Triple H said:


> The Chow and Shar-pei are the only breeds with the blue-black trait for a solid colored tongue but any dog, including purebreds, can have spots on their tongue, just as they can have similar spots on their skin under the coat.


I understand that-- had one w/ a tatoo far back on her tongue years ago. The one really looked blue black though--- and quite a big patch there.


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## BrettG (Apr 4, 2005)

I actually have 2 males of this coloration in for training right now. They are in for puppy training and are great. They came from a breeding between a chocolate and yellow. (Wouldn't encourage doing it) I also have they're sister who is a beautiful chocolate. I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post up. They are great little retrievers so far.


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## BrettG (Apr 4, 2005)

I forgot to include the names: Lock, Stock, and Barrel. The guy that owns them has like $100 in the 3.


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## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

The one thing I have learned over the years is that as soon as you say "that's impossible" nature will say "wanna bet".


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

I would love to have a "mosaic" pup like the one above. Mainly just for the uniqueness of it!


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## Bally's Gun Dogs (Jul 28, 2010)

tom said:


> The one thing I have learned over the years is that as soon as you say "that's impossible" nature will say "wanna bet".


That pup is beautiful...I can only imagine the thought when he/she came out though. Just out of curiousity, what color were the parents?


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

A few people I know believe labs come in one color, BLACK!


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## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

Bally's Gun Dogs said:


> Just out of curiousity, what color were the parents?


One was black the other was yellow. The pup is an aneuploid (an extra chromosome) So "BBeeE"
A common human example is Down Syndrome which is caused by three 21st chromosomes instead of the normal two.


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

Oh well, when I saw the picture I said to myself, "Self, wonder how long they will blame it on the chocolates". LOL 

I must say that in 30 years of breeding chocolates we have NEVER had any mutations. Either we are just lucky or blessed.


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## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

Cleo Watson said:


> Oh well, when I saw the picture I said to myself, "Self, wonder how long they will blame it on the chocolates". LOL


ROFL, you can't believe how tempted I was to say "Oh they had to be choccos"

Here is a pic of him as an adult.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

I hd to look at the pic a few times after everyone started talking about extra and missing legs...
There are 3 dogs in the pic the two dogs in the fore front are angled just enough so that their right real legs are in line with their left front legs (you can see the hock of the rear of the multi sticking out behind the front left leg and you can see the right rear toes sticking out behind the left front of the Black. the third dog is a yellow laying down behind the two, the extra shoulder is the black dogs stomach with the yellow dogs Blurred (moving) nose directly underneath. yellow dog behind is laying facing to the left of the pic with its head turned to the right side of pic. The black pup is bigger but the angle of the camera (down) plus the multi dog being closer makes it seem like a much bigger difference. 

There goes 15 minutes of my life I will never get back..haha


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

John Lash said:


> I'm a little surprised nobody noticed the kennel floor looks like a poorly done concrete job though.



Looks like some of that durn expensive "rock textured" concrete work to me....

When you sell rare dogs you can get the nice concrete I guess.


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## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

After extensive research, I have located the sire of these rare dogs. He's CKC registered


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## 150class (Jul 1, 2003)

My Golden male has a large black spot on his otherwise pink tongue. He is rare and unique and would command big bucks! His sire also had this black spot. 
I now wonder if he is pure..
Interesting thread


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## Orion Labradors (Sep 12, 2010)

It is all about ethics and quality control in a breed. 

A man out here is advertising rare black Irish Setters!

Bottom line......Irish Setters are red. Labs are yellow, chocolate or black.


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## pixiebee (Mar 29, 2009)

It happens in GSPs,too.
Lemon/cinnamon is becoming quite the popular rare color.


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## Madluke (Dec 3, 2010)

This looks similiar to those who breed and advertise " Silver Labs ". Same way the parents are registered, the pups are silver but the breeders won't acknowledge they came from Weimeraners. You can link to or google silverlabradors- to " The Truth behind Silver Labradors ". It is an interesting and fact backed article which sheds more light on these labs and color determinations.


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