# McCAIN PALIN ALL THE WAY GDG



## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

I love this Lady.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Take it you're not aware of her abortion stance.


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

Michael Wilson said:


> I love this Lady.


AND SHE IS HOT ON TOP OF IT ALL


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

SLICK said:


> Take it you're not aware of her abortion stance.


My understanding is she is PRO-LIFE. PERFECT!


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## Nor_Cal_Angler (Jul 3, 2008)

here, here!!!!!!!!!!!!

NCA


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm pro life, but to an extent. I'm more pro life than most anybody I know but if the child has severe birth defects that will kill the infant anyway, if the mother would be putting herself into serious life/death situations when the likelyhood is both will die, or something to that extent, then they should be able to abort. Notice I didn't say anything about when a woman has been sexually assaulted. This is a huge sticker point and I'm not gonna place any judgement on somebody who would abort if that's the case. I think adoption would make much more sense because you're playing god to an extent, but you're also asking that woman to relive something unphathomable each and every day of the pregnancy. Other than that, you don't have a right to play god. 

She doesn't care if the woman would die, the kid has severe birth defects and would probably die, rape, or any of that. That's a harsh stance by a woman. Matter of fact, I had this convo with my gf earlier today. She thinks John will lose the race because of it. I don't.


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## precisionlabradors (Jun 14, 2006)

i guess the question begging to be begged is: would you rather have a dynamic/charismatic leader for POTUS or VPOTUS? for all the hype, maybe palin should have run for pres...she is the "poster child" of the repub party...or so it seems.
________
Shemale Videos


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Well what would you call Bobby Jingle (Jindal.) then?


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

SLICK said:


> I'm pro life, but to an extent. I'm more pro life than most anybody I know but if the child has severe birth defects that will kill the infant anyway, if the mother would be putting herself into serious life/death situations when the likelyhood is both will die, or something to that extent, then they should be able to abort. Notice I didn't say anything about when a woman has been sexually assaulted. This is a huge sticker point and I'm not gonna place any judgement on somebody who would abort if that's the case. I think adoption would make much more sense because you're playing god to an extent, but you're also asking that woman to relive something unphathomable each and every day of the pregnancy. Other than that, you don't have a right to play god.
> 
> She doesn't care if the woman would die, the kid has severe birth defects and would probably die, rape, or any of that. That's a harsh stance by a woman. Matter of fact, I had this convo with my gf earlier today. She thinks John will lose the race because of it. I don't.


Well I've been represented by those so far left of my stance for so long that it wouldn't bother me to be represented by someone "maybe" a little further right for a while.


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

precisionlabradors said:


> i guess the question begging to be begged is: would you rather have a dynamic/charismatic leader for POTUS or VPOTUS? for all the hype, maybe palin should have run for pres...she is the "poster child" of the repub party...or so it seems.


HEAR HEAR HEAR YEA


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

She is a true Steel Magnolia. You GO GAL.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

sheriff said:


> Well I've been represented by those so far left of my stance for so long that it wouldn't bother me to be represented by someone "maybe" a little further right for a while.


Hey, that's your choice. I just don't see why you would make somebody go through the entire pregnancy to probably die, have the kid die or die shortly after/have severe birth defects, or both die when you knew it would happen to begin with. That's my view on it. I'm not saying you're right or wrong because it's a personal stance. I'm curious what your personal stance is, if you don't mind talking about it.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

SLICK said:


> She doesn't care if the woman would die, the kid has severe birth defects and would probably die, rape, or any of that.


I don't know where you get this [email protected] You are wrong. She opposes abortion in every case "except where the life of the mother is threatened." Even the liberals admit that much about her.


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

I am aware of her abortion stance. Like I said I love this Lady.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

AmiableLabs said:


> I don't know where you get this [email protected] You are wrong. She opposes abortion in every case "except where the life of the mother is threatened." Even the liberals admit that much about her.


O RLY? I would love for you to find that in any link. I guess teachers @ high profile universites are wrong. I mean they're only teaching government classes. Shrugs.


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

SLICK said:


> I'm curious what your personal stance is, if you don't mind talking about it.



I'm not running for office. But as far as the rape issue...I was alway told that two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

SLICK said:


> O RLY? I would love for you to find that in any link. I guess teachers @ high profile universites are wrong. I mean they're only teaching government classes. Shrugs.


Well this took me about two seconds

Q: What are your views on abortion? 
A: I am pro-life. With the exception of a doctor's determination that the mother's life would end if the pregnancy continued.

Source: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Abortion.htm

*Sounds about right to me!*


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

SLICK said:


> O RLY? I would love for you to find that in any link. I guess teachers @ high profile universites are wrong. I mean they're only teaching government classes. Shrugs.


CLICK HERE to read a liberal columnist on a liberal website attacking Palin for being against abortion in the case of rape, while admitting she does allow for abortion in the cases where the life of the mother is threatened.

Next?


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## LESTER LANGLEY (Jun 12, 2008)

I sure hope " teachers at high profile universities" and their opinions never become the basis by which we make political decisions.This thread has been a prime example why. Moving right along.....


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Michael Wilson said:


> I love this Lady.


So do _I_! The political left loves to use the term "strong woman". Sarah Palin is giving lessons on the subject, but we all know that some of the class will insist upon remaining asleep.

She's truly a remarkable and powerful individual!

Evan


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

SLICK said:


> I'm pro life, but to an extent. I'm more pro life than most anybody I know but if the child has severe birth defects that will kill the infant anyway, if the mother would be putting herself into serious life/death situations when the likelyhood is both will die, or something to that extent, then they should be able to abort. Notice I didn't say anything about when a woman has been sexually assaulted. This is a huge sticker point and I'm not gonna place any judgement on somebody who would abort if that's the case. I think adoption would make much more sense because you're playing god to an extent, but you're also asking that woman to relive something unphathomable each and every day of the pregnancy. Other than that, you don't have a right to play god.
> 
> She doesn't care if the woman would die, the kid has severe birth defects and would probably die, rape, or any of that. That's a harsh stance by a woman. Matter of fact, I had this convo with my gf earlier today. She thinks John will lose the race because of it. I don't.



There are those of us who prefer to let God play God in all cases though.


That woman rocks!!!!!


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## Ken Archer (Aug 11, 2003)

SLICK said:


> O RLY? I would love for you to find that in any link. I guess teachers @ high profile universites are wrong. I mean they're only teaching government classes. Shrugs.


Sounds like the "Michael Phelps of Posting" has been living on that liberal Kool Aid for too long. Teachers at high profile universities have been pushing their own agenda at the expense of teaching their students to think for themselves. The brain is like any other muscle....it's only useful if exercised on a regular basis.


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## GONEHUNTIN' (Sep 21, 2006)

Good grief; the woman is pretty, a good speaker, obviously likes sex (5 kids), belongs to the NRA and likes hunting and fishing. What's not to like? :razz:


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## DSO (Dec 27, 2005)

She flat out CRUSHED that speech! And for those who believe that the candidates just read what there handed, I heard from more than one news outlet that to deliver that speech as well as she did, she would have to be a part of the writing process. The truth be told... I believe the Obama camp would say they are a bit rattled over Palin.

Danny


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

Time will tell if Palin helps McCain over the hump. I certainly hope she does but Gov. Palin looks like the kind of level-headed person who would be just as happy guttin' moose in Alaska as she would be guttin' democrats in Washington. Let's hope for gut piles in Washington.

But sexism is alive and well with the democrats and their leftist media friends. They'll continue to try to destroy this woman simply because she's not one of them and they feel threatened by her. What a joke the democrats are. Equal opportunity as long as you're one of them. Ask Clarence Thomas. He experienced the same thing.

She's a breath of fresh air.


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## wheelhorse (Nov 13, 2005)

Goose said:


> They'll continue to try to destroy this woman simply because she's not one of them and they feel threatened by her.


And the Republicans are different from that in what way....? Don't you think that the Republicans are trying to destroy Oboma in basically the same way?

Just sayin' you've got your hard line fanatic mud slingers on both sides that try to spin things their way. Personally, I think both parties need to relearn some manners.

I have a hard time with the fact that the Republicans where crying no fair, it's not about the family it's about the candidate and then turn around and Palin's 17 year old daughter in the spot light. I feel incredibly sorry for that girl, not only is she going to be a single mom but now she's in the international spotlight with absolutely no preparation. 
Putting on the flame retardant suit, regards

Kathleen


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Ken Archer said:


> Sounds like the "Michael Phelps of Posting" has been living on that liberal Kool Aid for too long. Teachers at high profile universities have been pushing their own agenda at the expense of teaching their students to think for themselves. The brain is like any other muscle....it's only useful if exercised on a regular basis.


Check his posting history....that'll tell you ALL you need to know.....

kg


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

wheelhorse said:


> I have a hard time with the fact that the Republicans where crying no fair, it's not about the family it's about the candidate and then turn around and Palin's 17 year old daughter in the spot light. I feel incredibly sorry for that girl, not only is she going to be a single mom but now she's in the international spotlight with absolutely no preparation.
> Putting on the flame retardant suit, regards
> 
> Kathleen


The MEDIA put her daughter in the spotlight....and you might want to start watching a more up-to-date news service....Bristol Palin's *fiance'* was with her last night.

Single mom [email protected] regards,

kg


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

LESTER LANGLEY said:


> I sure hope " teachers at high profile universities" and their opinions never become the basis by which we make political decisions.This thread has been a prime example why. Moving right along.....


 
you mean on things like man caused global warming...


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## WindyCreek (Jan 3, 2007)

She certainly does rock! She hit the ball out of the park and also honored Senator McCain for his continual service to the country and not being afraid to stand up for what he believes. The McCain-Palin ticket has my vote.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Goose said:


> Let's hope for gut piles in Washington.


See, and this is the problem with that American Political Process. Why does it have to be "gut piles?" 

Why can't we be smart enough to sit down and resolve our differences in a manner that puts the country first and not our own narrow-minded political agenda.

I'm tired of the scorched-earth politics on both sides of the fence. As long as we are attacking the individual, we aren't focusing on the problems...I guess it's easier. Someone has to see that the tit-for-tat partisan politics has sunk to depths that even our Founding Fathers could not have thought possible.

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty."

George Washington; Farewell Address, 1796

Link: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm

Be Nice If We Could All Just Get Along Regards,

Joe S.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Joe S. said:


> See, and this is the problem with that American Political Process. Why does it have to be "gut piles?"
> 
> Why can't we be smart enough to sit down and resolve our differences in a manner that puts the country first and not our own narrow-minded political agenda.
> 
> ...


Oh stop being such a panzy!


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Joe S. said:


> I'm tired of the scorched-earth politics on both sides of the fence. As long as we are attacking the individual, we aren't focusing on the problems...I guess it's easier. Someone has to see that the tit-for-tat partisan politics has sunk to depths that even our Founding Fathers could not have thought possible.


Read a "A Magnificent Catastrophe: The Tumultous Election of 1800, America's First Presidential Campaign" by historian Edward J Larson, available in paperback (Free Press). There is also an article about the book on page 42 of The American Spectator, September 2008. So apparently doing what was done 208 years ago comes naturally. 

Also Page 16 of the same magazine has an article "What Will Rumsfeld Write" about his book on the Iraq War. My gut feeling is that it will be a straightforward account. When the book arrives I will be interested in your take as that is beyond my interest level.

My take on Palin's speech - excellent - in terms people could understand - I'm not sure the Obama camp wanted to hear & experience that. Just a normal person using her talent, hard for the people with the Beltway mentality to understand. 

The press & the lefties are going to be spending a lot of time looking for any little ***** in her armor, which will only rally the normal people more.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

SLICK said:


> ... I just don't see why you would make somebody go through the entire pregnancy to probably die, have the kid die or die shortly after/have severe birth defects, or both die when you knew it would happen to begin with. That's my view on it.....



Hope (but unlikely) your university friends will give the straight of it too. Sarah Palin has a personal view of abortion, just like you. The best that the pro-life camp could hope (but unlikely) for is an overturning of Rowe vs Wade. That decision is not within the perview of Palin or McCain, it requires a Supreme Court decision. If that happens, your state decides, nothing else. Your comment implies Palin (or McCain, I guess) can dictate to you abortion rights - another liberal lie. You say you're pro-life to an extent but you would make Palin's personal stance the issue on which your vote hinges - just doesn't make sense given the facts.

And BTW, you are unlikely to get much truth, or facts from "high profile universities" when it comes to politics, you might as well trust Hollywood for political facts.


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

wheelhorse said:


> I have a hard time with the fact that the Republicans where crying no fair, it's not about the family it's about the candidate and then turn around and Palin's 17 year old daughter in the spot light. I feel incredibly sorry for that girl, not only is she going to be a single mom but now she's in the international spotlight with absolutely no preparation.
> Putting on the flame retardant suit, regards
> 
> Kathleen



I don't see where your coming from here. Should Sarah have made her stay home? She showed up to RNC where her mother was nominated as the Rep Canidates choice for Vice President of the USA. I think there is a huge president for families coming to these things. She never mentioned once her daughters situation.


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## Legacy 6 (Jul 2, 2008)

Just heard on Glenn Beck, that near halfway through her speech, Palin's teleprompter broke, she winged most of her speech. If true, then Biden is in trouble on 2 october.


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

Legacy 6 said:


> Just heard on Glenn Beck, that near halfway through her speech, Palin's teleprompter broke, she winged most of her speech. If true, then Biden is in trouble on 2 october.


Not sure if that is true. But I definately think their in trouble.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Granddaddy said:


> Hope (but unlikely) your university friends will give the straight of it too. Sarah Palin has a personal view of abortion, just like you. The best that the pro-life camp could hope (but unlikely) for is an overturning of Rowe vs Wade. That decision is not within the perview of Palin or McCain, it requires a Supreme Court decision. If that happens, your state decides, nothing else. Your comment implies Palin (or McCain, I guess) can dictate to you abortion rights - another liberal lie. You say you're pro-life to an extent but you would make Palin's personal stance the issue on which your vote hinges - just doesn't make sense given the facts.
> 
> And BTW, you are unlikely to get much truth, or facts from "high profile universities" when it comes to politics, you might as well trust Hollywood for political facts.


Um, I hope to god John wins. If Obama can't even debate with John, what would he honestly do when something big comes up? He's absolutely atrocious in debates or anything where there's any sort of pressure. Yes, great speaker, but I'd doubt seriously he even writes his own. My vote doesn't hinge on his VP nomination. If John was hoping to steal some conservative demie/liberal rep votes, he probably went with the wrong person to be VP. That's all I was saying on that. I never said anybody can dictate any abortion rights. I'm just talking about their views. That's all. Abortion is such a sticker that even if it was changed during John's administration, it's certainly possible for it to be reversed whenever the demies do eventually make it back in office.

Well it's plausible that a liberal professor who is whining about everything could be wrong, but I might have messed that one part up. It was rather late whenever I posted, I can't remember now.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

SLICK said:


> Um, I hope to god John wins. If Obama can't even debate with John, what would he honestly do when something big comes up? He's absolutely atrocious in debates or anything where there's any sort of pressure. Yes, great speaker, but I'd doubt seriously he even writes his own. My vote doesn't hinge on his VP nomination. If John was hoping to steal some conservative demie/liberal rep votes, he probably went with the wrong person to be VP. That's all I was saying on that. I never said anybody can dictate any abortion rights. I'm just talking about their views. That's all. Abortion is such a sticker that even if it was changed during John's administration, it's certainly possible for it to be reversed whenever the demies do eventually make it back in office.
> 
> Well it's plausible that a liberal professor who is whining about everything could be wrong, but I might have messed that one part up. It was rather late whenever I posted, I can't remember now.


About pressure...some suggest Senator McCain seemed to hold under the pressure of the Hanio Hilton rather well.

About pressure...Can be both. Which is it? Is he bad in debates or a great speaker. I don't think he can be both unless one of them is in sign language.

About writing his own...At that level NONE of them "write their own."

About abortion...It is law until it isn't. When it isn't law anymore, it will be debated some more. Right now, it is law.

*IF* you are a democrat (Kevin, is that really you?), please, for crying out loud, look up the definition of counterproductive. You will recognize it by your picture. Many of the Republicans on this board ACTUALLY know stuff ;-), are excellent debaters, and know the talking points on both sides of the issue.

Just trying to be helpful...it's my nature, you know.

Helpful Regards,

Helpy Helperson

P.S. - K.G. - Please clean out your inbox.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

SLICK said:


> Well it's plausible that a liberal professor who is whining about everything could be wrong, but _I might have messed that one part up. It was rather late whenever I posted, I can't remember now_.


You need to change your slogan....the REAL Michael Phelps of posting would _never_ offer up that lame excuse....

Just sayin' regards,

kg



PS.....Joe, there's room now....;-)


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

Like or dislike or views on abortion..... at least we have someone who doesn't ride the fence. We know where she stands.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Joe S. said:


> About pressure...some suggest Senator McCain seemed to hold under the pressure of the Hanio Hilton rather well.
> 
> About pressure...Can be both. Which is it? Is he bad in debates or a great speaker. I don't think he can be both unless one of them is in sign language.
> 
> ...


I said he's a great speaker but horrible in debates. That's a fact.

I shoulda said I highly doubt Obama could write his own. My bad.

You made no sense about abortion being a law. That's redundant @ best. We were talking about views and the only possible way it could be changed. Nothing more than that.

How do you think I could ever pass for a demie? I'm a conservative rep, but I don't drink the kool aid. You have to have your own views/thought process.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

K G said:


> You need to change your slogan....the REAL Michael Phelps of posting would _never_ offer up that lame excuse....
> 
> Just sayin' regards,
> 
> ...


Yawn. There was no excuse, it was a retort.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Greg E said:


> Like or dislike or views on abortion..... at least we have someone who doesn't ride the fence. We know where she stands.


I'll buy that, but John coulda did soo much better.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Greg E said:


> Like or dislike or views on abortion..... at least we have someone who doesn't ride the fence. We know where she stands.


And you know, I'm glad about that. I wish the junior Senator from IL would be as clear.

It's A Process Regards,

Joe S.


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

My favorite. He had time to write two memoirs but hasn't written one bill.


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## Legacy 6 (Jul 2, 2008)

sheriff said:


> Not sure if that is true. But I definately think their in trouble.


Also, Sirius Left Radio said today that they wished Joe Biden got an aneurism so Obama could put HRC in the VP slot...

WOW!! That's some pretty heavy BS... They are willing to kill off their own VP to beat McCain-Palin...

These people are like a *rabid* _squirrel_ backed into a corner... yup, I said a blood sucking, dangerous, *rabid* _squirrel_.


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## ramblinmaxx (Nov 17, 2004)

DSO said:


> She flat out CRUSHED that speech! And for those who believe that the candidates just read what there handed, I heard from more than one news outlet that to deliver that speech as well as she did, she would have to be a part of the writing process. The truth be told... I believe the Obama camp would say they are a bit rattled over Palin.
> 
> Danny


Yes, she did CRUSH that speech. Compared to the below speech I would say it was a Grand Slam.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Legacy 6 said:


> Also, Sirius Left Radio said today that they wished Joe Biden got an aneurism so Obama could put HRC in the VP slot...


Check this out -- CLICK Here.

Jim Gerahty at _NRO_ made this prediction last Friday after the Palin announcement.


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## FowlDawgs (Oct 22, 2007)

Palin hammered that speech. My wife is a moderate democrat and after Palin's speech my wife's exact words were "Uhhhh we're in trouble." If Palin can go against the Big Three oil companies Obama and Biden won't be nothing for her.

Guilianni was fired up too. I really liked when he said "When will she have time for her children if she's VP? When was the last time we asked a man that?".

McCain/Palin 08 regards,

Cory


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Hey, all the office staff at work are hoping that she runs for Pres. next term, IF she lives up to what she said she stands for. Actions do speak louder and more clearly than words. I for one, hope that she (and the old man) accomplish something great for this country, whether its a balanced budget, closing loopholes in existing laws, lowering taxes (while still balancing the budget), or finally bringing our men and women home from the middle east.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Bobby Jingle would beat her soo bad for the republican nomination, she'd tuck her tail between her legs and stay in AK.


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

dont think Bobby was nominated


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Was in response to the palin presidential nom in 4 years.


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

Hey Slick - The Michael Phelps Of Posting. - does this mean you are all wet? LOL Just curious


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Cleo Watson said:


> Hey Slick - The Michael Phelps Of Posting. - does this mean you are all wet? LOL Just curious


Bwahahahaha!!! Ms. Cleo you still got it!!!!


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## etfremd (Feb 11, 2008)

AmiableLabs said:


> Check this out -- CLICK Here.
> 
> Jim Gerahty at _NRO_ made this prediction last Friday after the Palin announcement.


That is more likely to happen every day that goes by...I think BHO is crapping his pants now! He made a big mistake not taking Hillary...Something has got to happen to old Joe- so Hillary can step back in!

If HRC gets back into the race then I think it will be so very, very close!

I know the polls aren't showing it yet but I think the Palin/MAC ticket will sweep in the fall!


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## Captain Mike D (Jan 1, 2006)

etfremd said:


> I know the polls aren't showing it yet but I think the Palin/MAC ticket will sweep in the fall!


Assuming McCain delivers tonight I would not be at all surprised to see the bump in poles that will show Obama trailing in a couple of days.

Everywhere I have been today people are talking about Sarah! The lady is the real deal and the Rep. base is now solidified. Soccer moms are going to vote for her as will alot of blue collar folks that can identify with her lifestyle.

Washington has been a stinking place for some time. What a breath of fresh air!!

Mike


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

etfremd said:


> That is more likely to happen every day that goes by...I think BHO is crapping his pants now! He made a big mistake not taking Hillary...Something has got to happen to old Joe- so Hillary can step back in!
> 
> *If HRC gets back into the race then I think it will be so very, very close!*
> 
> I know the polls aren't showing it yet but I think the Palin/MAC ticket will sweep in the fall!


Actually I think the fallout that would be generated from that would make them fall off the map. Flip flopping is already an issue, switching to HRC would be a nail in the coffin at this point


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## Captain Mike D (Jan 1, 2006)

badbullgator said:


> Actually I think the fallout that would be generated from that would make them fall off the map. Flip flopping is already an issue, switching to HRC would be a nail in the coffin at this point


 
That is probably true and what I think is even more likely scenario is that HRC knows Obama is going to get beat. If she were on the ticket with him they may win. She is not going to sit around for eight years waiting to run for POTUS. Hillary will be running for Pres again in 2012.

My crystal ball says her Rep. foe will be V.P. Palin.


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Top Feminazi slams Gov Palin. Gloria Steinem's bloviating makes me more determined to support McCain Palin.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-steinem4-2008sep04,0,1290251.story?track=rss


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Cleo Watson said:


> Hey Slick - The Michael Phelps Of Posting. - does this mean you are all wet? LOL Just curious


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Palin is alright... I think this would have been a better choice if they were looking for a qualified woman..... IMHO!!!

http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutSenatorSnowe.Biography

Angie


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> Top Feminazi slams Gov Palin. Gloria Steinem's bloviating makes me more determined to support McCain Palin.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-steinem4-2008sep04,0,1290251.story?track=rss


What did you think that swine of a human was going to say?


Voting for McCain/Palin because we can't afford the other choice.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Palin is alright... I think this would have been a better choice if they were looking for a qualified woman..... IMHO!!!
> 
> http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutSenatorSnowe.Biography
> 
> Angie


And with McCain not being any spring chicken at 72 yrs. of age, much less a healthy 72, I would have liked a more experinced, qualified choice for a VP,, cause there is a very good chance she could be "P"!!

Angie


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Angie,

That's the problem with Washington & nat'l politics. We have too much experience up there. They have all learned how to bring benefit to themselves. It's nothing more than a mutual admiration society where the people serve them. The Washington elite (Dems & Reps) are scared of Palin, the outsider who is not a lifetime politician nor beholden to Washington. The latest line from the Obama camp is that McCain votes 90% of the time with Bush's position - like it's something to tie McCain to Bush. The problem is even the Dems vote about the same amount of time with the Reps, i.e, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours - they take compromise to an (low) art form.

Maybe that's why the founders saw public service as a part-time job with relatively low pay. Maybe what we need now is term limits to level the playing field in the favor of our fellow citizens instead of government for the politicians.

Sarah Palin has shown she is qualified to do just about anything she takes on - we need more like her. Then maybe we could really agree it's governement by the people & for the people...........


----------



## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

I think I've posted this on more than one occasion.

We are NOT voting for or against a vp. We are voting for a PRESIDENT!!!!

It's simply a choice of obama or McCain.

Now which one do you want to lead our country for the next four years??

Jerry


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

SLICK said:


> Bobby Jingle would beat her soo bad for the republican nomination, she'd tuck her tail between her legs and stay in AK.


Hummm...interesting thought...but I think it is Bobby *JINDAL*. 

Depending on the performance issues over the next 3.5 years, it would be unusual, I think, for someone, especially as young and with such a bright future as JINDAL, to challenge a sitting VP. He would divide the base as both are well right of the center line in the Republican Party and would greatly restrict the flow of available cash to fund their efforts.

I Don't Think That Woman Has Ever Tucked Tail In Her Life Regards,

Joe S.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> Angie,
> 
> That's the problem with Washington & nat'l politics. We have too much experience up there. They have all learned how to bring benefit to themselves. It's nothing more than a mutual admiration society where the people serve them. The Washington elite (Dems & Reps) are scared of Palin, the outsider who is not a lifetime politician nor beholden to Washington. The latest line from the Obama camp is that McCain votes 90% of the time with Bush's position - like it's something to tie McCain to Bush. The problem is even the Dems vote about the same amount of time with the Reps, i.e, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours - they take compromise to an (low) art form.
> 
> ...


Ohhh my,,,, I'm not sure a new, squeaky clean face, is what this country needs?? Neophyets, which she is, are only fluff to sway the uneducated, emotional masses.... IMHO.... 

People vote with emotion and personalities they like,,, not experience, or issues or platform. All the politicians "lie, and contadict themselves".. That's why picking a well chosen* personality* works so well.....

Could she run a country????? I don't think she has the experience or political savy or knowledge!!! Better choices could have been made....

I'm sad after doing my research....

Again IMHO,,,

Angie


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

SLICK said:


> Yawn. There was no excuse, it was a retort.


Retort, shmetort.....it was LAME.



SLICK said:


> Bobby Jingle would beat her soo bad for the republican nomination, she'd tuck her tail between her legs and stay in AK.


Thanks for showing your "slick" sexist side. Your TRUE viewpoint is a bit more clear now...



SLICK said:


> Was in response to the palin presidential nom in 4 years.


Yeah....this "internet" translates "intent" _real_ well, don't you think?



Angie B said:


> Palin is alright... I think this would have been a better choice if they were looking for a qualified woman..... IMHO!!!
> 
> Angie


I'm sure the RNC will be contacting you in the future for your feedback, Ang.....



Angie B said:


> Ohhh my,,,, I'm not sure a new, squeaky clean face, is what this country needs?? Neophyets, which she is, are only fluff to sway the uneducated, emotional masses.... IMHO....


So basically you have -zero- confidence in the ability of America to know the difference?



> People vote on emotion and personalities not experience, or issues or platform. All the politicians lie, and contadict themselves... That's why picking a well chosen* personality* works so well.....


Guess this answers THAT question..........you're a die-hard CYNIC, Angie. THAT much is obvious. You've shown tendencies before (hard ones at that) but this seals the deal.



> Could she run a country????? I don't think she has the experience or political savy or knowledge!!! Better choices could have been made....


More EXPECTED choices could have been made, for sure. Doin' the "Beltway Boogie" got us to $3+ gas and the meltdown of subprime mortgages. How much more proof do you need that continuing down the same road is INSANITY. You know the definition of "insanity" don't you? It's doing the same things you've always done and expecting different results. The Democrats, with Biden as VP, are giving us insanity. With Palin, the Republicans are giving us a breath of fresh air and enthusiasm...and remember that the "leaders" in Washington get a LOT OF HELP running the country. They're not on an island like "Lost" survivors....



> I'm sad after doing my research....


Will voting for the Democratic nominee make you _less_ sad?

kg


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

> I'm sure the RNC will be contacting you in the future for your feedback, Ang.....


Sure,,,, as much as they'll be contacting you KG!!



> So basically you have -zero- confidence in the ability of America to know the difference?


Yup,,, pretty much,,, Because we're all *too busy...* We're tired,,, and don't want to wade through all the BS.. We gotta work, put food on the table,,, don't wanna be bothered with figuring what's really going on politically,,, Cause it all don't matter anywho..



> Guess this answers THAT question..........you're a die-hard CYNIC, Angie. THAT much is obvious. You've shown tendencies before (hard ones at that) but this seals the deal.


You don't know my tendencies from "sick-um"... I'm not a cynic,,, I'm a REALIST!!!! Hello.... seems to be in short supply along with common sense....



> More EXPECTED choices could have been made, for sure. Doin' the "Beltway Boogie" got us to $3+ gas and the meltdown of subprime mortgages. How much more proof do you need that continuing down the same road is INSANITY. You know the definition of "insanity" don't you? It's doing the same things you've always done and expecting different results. The Democrats, with Biden as VP, are giving us insanity. With Palin, the Republicans are giving us a breath of fresh air and enthusiasm...and remember that the "leaders" in Washington get a LOT OF HELP running the country. They're not on an island like "Lost" survivors....


Again,, Oh My!!! Why would going with a different more experienced states woman as VP mean we would be having more of the same???? Palin has little or no track record in politics!!! She has virtually nothing on the books!!! So she's good to go as far as making decisions for our nation???

Get the pom, poms for ole Sara,,, Yaaaa,,, TEAM!!!

Sometimes K.G.???? YIKES!!!!

Angie


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Joe S. said:


> I Don't Think That Woman Has Ever Tucked Tail In Her Life Regards,


I think that is a safe assumption. Her nickname since high school is "Sarah Barracuda" because of how competitive she is and how hard she fights.

This campaign is going to be interesting.


----------



## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)




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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Joe S. said:


> Hummm...interesting thought...but I think it is Bobby *JINDAL*.
> 
> Depending on the performance issues over the next 3.5 years, it would be unusual, I think, for someone, especially as young and with such a bright future as JINDAL, to challenge a sitting VP. He would divide the base as both are well right of the center line in the Republican Party and would greatly restrict the flow of available cash to fund their efforts.
> 
> ...


It's Bobby Jingle. It's a name we gave him. He kinda earned it.

He's young, extremely bright, and on par to possiby being the greatest republican politician since Reagan.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

K G said:


> Retort, shmetort.....it was LAME.
> 
> Thanks for showing your "slick" sexist side. Your TRUE viewpoint is a bit more clear now...
> 
> ...


Whatever you think, "Genius".

Yeah, real sexist side. You're either the worst troll of all time, or a babbling moron. Which one is it?

It's not my fault you take everything out of context. Now continue to dance.


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## spaightlabs (Jul 15, 2005)

Good speech last night - anyone of you republibots wanna comment on the 'nothing but promises/no plan' stuff you thought was a mortal sin last week, but no doubt will now be considered 'visionary'? He was at least smart in stealing Obama's Change platform and I imagine a lot of you believed him when he said 'yeah, we screwed up bad the last 8 years, but give us another chance, we'll do better this time...'

I do think the embalmer/taxidermist did a pretty good job of making him look almost alive, but Carl Rove needs to work on his puppeteer's skills a bit, the arm movements looked a little bit like 'weekend at Bernie's'...


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

spaightlabs said:


> Good speech last night - anyone of you republibots wanna comment on the 'nothing but promises/no plan' stuff you thought was a mortal sin last week, but no doubt will now be considered 'visionary'? He was at least smart in stealing Obama's Change platform and I imagine a lot of you believed him when he said 'yeah, we screwed up bad the last 8 years, but give us another chance, we'll do better this time...'
> 
> I do think the embalmer/taxidermist did a pretty good job of making him look almost alive, but Carl Rove needs to work on his puppeteer's skills a bit, the arm movements looked a little bit like 'weekend at Bernie's'...


Yeah, lets make fun of a guy that can barely lift his arms because they were broken while he was defending your right to make fun of him.


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## IowaBayDog (May 17, 2006)

spaightlabs said:


> I do think the embalmer/taxidermist did a pretty good job of making him look almost alive, but Carl Rove needs to work on his puppeteer's skills a bit, the arm movements looked a little bit like 'weekend at Bernie's'...


It may not win but this should at least by nominated for the most moronic RTF statement ever. Picking on a disability he got while being beaten as a POW? Really?


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

spaightlabs said:


> I do think the embalmer/taxidermist did a pretty good job of making him look almost alive, but *Carl Rove needs to work on his puppeteer's skills a bit, the arm movements looked a little bit like 'weekend at Bernie's'*...


You should be ashamed of yourself...............you're either ignorant or callous as he!!...............

kg


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## dixidawg (Jan 5, 2003)

spaightlabs said:


> I do think the embalmer/taxidermist did a pretty good job of making him look almost alive, but Carl Rove needs to work on his puppeteer's skills a bit, the arm movements looked a little bit like 'weekend at Bernie's'...



You just can't fix stupid. Statements like that automatically makes me discount ANYTHING else you have to say. Where's that ignore button again?


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

Pretty low class, spaightlabs. You should try being a POW sometime and see how it feels.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Sure,,,, as much as they'll be contacting you KG!!


_I'm_ not the one saying they made a mistake with their pick......;-)




> Yup,,, pretty much,,, Because we're all *too busy...* We're tired,,, and don't want to wade through all the BS.. We gotta work, put food on the table,,, don't wanna be bothered with figuring what's really going on politically,,, *Cause it all don't matter anywho*..


_Prime_ example of my "cynic(al)" comment....but if you're comfortable calling it being a "realist," I guess it is what it is.....




> You don't know my tendencies from "sick-um"... I'm not a cynic,,, I'm a REALIST!!!! Hello.... seems to be in short supply along with common sense....


So, you're saying that IRL you _aren't_ who you are here?????




> Again,, Oh My!!! Why would going with a different more experienced states woman as VP mean we would be having more of the same???? *Palin has little or no track record in politics!!! She has virtually nothing on the books!!!* So she's good to go as far as making decisions for our nation???


Then she's at least equal to the Democratic party's nominee for POTUS on the "experience" and "track record" stand, except for the earmarks he's pushed for special interest groups. THOSE are his shining accomplishments for his short time in the US Senate. BTW, know how many earmarks McCain has pushed? ZERO.



> Get the pom, poms for ole Sara,,, Yaaaa,,, TEAM!!!
> 
> Sometimes K.G.???? YIKES!!!!
> 
> Angie


Not exactly sure what the "sometimes" means, but I guess this is your "realist" side. It's cool, Ang....and except for BHO's stand on the Second Amendment, I guess it won't affect dog training too much....well, then there's that mandatory health care plan for people that can't pay for it that the rest of us will have to...._that_ might suck up some jobs from people who might be paying for dog training now....I could go on and on and on but I don't care to and I'm pretty sure you get the point.

Glad Gustav missed you regards, ;-)

kg


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## Henry V (Apr 7, 2004)

Come on folks. I am in the office part of today and I was waiting to see at least one "McCain rocks" type thread. What gives? No posts pimping the party or each other after the speech last night and nothing this morning.

How about at least some new pictures of Palin or a discussion on why mentioning her name was good for the ticket because it got far and away the most applause.

How about some more newspaper frontpages clearly showing the medias bias.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

IowaBayDog said:


> It may not win but this should at least by nominated for the most moronic RTF statement ever. Picking on a disability he got while being beaten as a POW? Really?


It's a close race with the comment about Palin's Downs Syndrome child, that is for sure.

Ignorant Is For Ever Regards,

Joe S.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Henry V said:


> Come on folks. I am in the office part of today and I was waiting to see at least one "McCain rocks" type thread. What gives? No posts pimping the party or each other after the speech last night and nothing this morning.
> 
> How about at least some new pictures of Palin or a discussion on why mentioning her name was good for the ticket because it got far and away the most applause.
> 
> How about some more newspaper frontpages clearly showing the medias bias.


How 'bout the virtual TIE today in a poll I just saw on CNN (can you BELIEVE it???) between BHO and McCain? Not bad for what used to be a BHO double-digit lead......;-)

There.....it may not be "McCain Rocks," but it's time to move on and finish the deal.

Now....that said....speaking for myself and myself ONLY....if this country decides that the BHO-Biden ticket is the team to lead, so be it. It is incumbent upon us ALL to support our President whomever they might be. BHO won't be immune from bonehead mistakes, he won't be immune from the influence of the DNC, and having a Democrat as president with a Democratic-party controlled Congress scares the everlovin' CRAP out of me........I'm willing to say that they should be given the chance to fulfill the task of getting America on the right track again.

There. JMHO, as always.

kg


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

SLICK said:


> Whatever you think, "Genius".
> 
> Yeah, real sexist side. You're either the worst troll of all time, or a babbling moron. Which one is it?
> 
> It's not my fault you take everything out of context. Now continue to dance.



For someone who's been on this site for all of three months with just over 300 posts, I'd say the one that's willing to call himself The Michael Phelps of Posting wears the "troll" moniker far better than I _ever_ could. Kudos, slick....

Take a moment to compare post CONTENT, slick.......assuming you're capable of comprehending it (which is currently questionable at best, impossible at worst), you'll see some VAST differences in the roles played here.

VAST.........................................

As for taking comments out of context, that has to do with your Michael Phelps-ian ability to communicate (insert large dose of sarcasm HERE.....) your message, slick. Maybe if you typed slower...............

Just a thought......;-)

kg


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

K G said:


> It is incumbent upon us ALL to support our President whomever they might be. I'm willing to say that they should be given the chance to fulfill the task of getting America on the right track again.
> 
> 
> kg


Exactly.............


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Angie B said:


> Palin is alright... I think this would have been a better choice if they were looking for a qualified woman..... IMHO!!!
> 
> http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutSenatorSnowe.Biography
> 
> Angie


Now you're talking.


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## DSO (Dec 27, 2005)

spaightlabs said:


> I do think the embalmer/taxidermist did a pretty good job of making him look almost alive, but Carl Rove needs to work on his puppeteer's skills a bit, the arm movements looked a little bit like 'weekend at Bernie's'...


Man, I'd be scared to say that for fear of what might come back on me! 
That's some pretty raw stuff right there.

Danny


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Anyone catch the interview with the dem nominee on O'Reilly last nite? He did so much bobbin, duckin and weavin it was like watching Cassuis Clay back in the day. Parts er....rounds 2,3, and 4 air starting Monday next week. I hope bill gets him to give some straight answers to a few questions, as I'm still wonderin *WHERE'S THE BEEF?*


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

I saw that too, Bob.

The next 8 weeks are going to be eventful, no doubt.

kg


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

K G said:


> For someone who's been on this site for all of three months with just over 300 posts, I'd say the one that's willing to call himself The Michael Phelps of Posting wears the "troll" moniker far better than I _ever_ could. Kudos, slick....
> 
> Take a moment to compare post CONTENT, slick.......assuming you're capable of comprehending it (which is currently questionable at best, impossible at worst), you'll see some VAST differences in the roles played here.
> 
> ...


Yawnnnn. You continue to bore me. Please, bring something to the table to try and keep my attention. After all the rain we got from Gustav, I'm certain watching the grass grow outside is more eventful than your retorts. I'm sorry if you're not estute enough to follow along or keep up with myself. Hey, it's not your fault. Few are, very few really are.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Yawnnnnn, indeed.

kg


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## MJT1977 (Jul 20, 2005)

They both have my vote

http://iawaterfowlers.com/userpix/5_vp_1.jpg


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Do you want a huge tax increase?

Do you want to have to work harder so others wont have to?

Do You want to cling to your Bible and Guns?

Do you want YOUR government bigger??

Do you want our OWN oil,, or do you just want to inflate yer tires to 100lbs?


Two party system folks!! What party SPEAKS for you, despite the representitives!!

Palin is Goosers HERO!!


Gooser


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## redline (Apr 19, 2003)

She's like a jug of -10 degrees in August.
A Warm fire in January.
A hot baracudababe the rest of the year.
She has to be a three time felon before I consider...think about.. maybe not voting for her and what's his Mcnaim.
Do you think if she grabbed Ahmadinejad by the balls she would squeeeess?
Berry Obama would just talk to his forehead.
And I thought all the people in Alaska were weird. There is always an exception. 


Kidding!
Jan


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

The Republican party has 2 months to sell a "no name, no nothing about" gal from the sticks who could be possibly our president. She stepped up to the plate and her family and everything else about her will be under scutiny. It has to be....

The republican party has a tough row to hoe on this selection in my opinion.

You wouldn't believe the political propoganda e-mails I've recieved about her? Ridiculous and all based on a personality..... Not a bit on fact....

I'm a independent swing voter. I'm the voter the candidates need to win the election.

We'll see how the next 2 months shake out... I'll be watching very, very closely....

Not drinking the koolaid, will decide for myself,,, Thank you, ;-)

Regards....

Angie


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Angie B said:


> The Republican party has 2 months to sell a "no name, no nothing about" gal from the sticks who could be possibly our president. She stepped up to the plate and her family and everything else about her will be under scutiny. It has to be....
> 
> The republican party has a tough row to hoe on this selection in my opinion.
> 
> ...




And the Dems have Obama?


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> And the Dems have Obama?


We'll just see.... I'm waiting on the next 60 days like a hawk!! 

I'm not willing to bank on someone we no nothing about..... That is not a answer to Obama and the democrats. I'm disappointed and a tad bit pissed at the republican party....

Angie


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Just a small reminder...._she_ is not running for President.....

Can't fathom the alternative regards,

kg


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

I would take anybody I didn't know over Obama. I KNOW I am AGAINST everything he is for. At least with someone else I might get something I agree with.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

K G said:


> Just a small reminder...._she_ is not running for President.....
> 
> Can't fathom the alternative regards,
> 
> kg


But she could be,,, could be....  The party knew that going into the deal and now they have a sell on their hands.....

Like I pointed out. There were better female running mates available in my opinion but the party went with youth and personality.....

And maybe Keith, you can't fathom the alternative but I will and I'll give it all the time and attention it deserves when it comes to deciding the right candidate and his running mate for me and even this county....

I have to say Sara Palin did make me more interested in knowing the facts about this presidential election then any before....

Angie


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## dixidawg (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't know, but from some account she is much more than a pretty face. Looks to be a tough customer that can play hard ball with the best of them:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1220...mEditorialPage


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Angie B said:


> And maybe Keith, you can't fathom the alternative but I will and I'll give it all the time and attention it deserves when it comes to deciding the right candidate and his running mate for me and even this county....


I'm sure the people of your county will be quite proud of the time and consideration that you're giving to the choice.

The rest of the country will be also, I'm sure....;-)

Happy Friday regards,

kg


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## luvalab (Oct 10, 2003)

Aw, come on Angie... SHE was born with ovaries, YOU were born with ovaries...

Quit being difficult. Now that there's a ticket with breasts on it, just mail in the early ballot and get on with your life. Sheez. McCain/Palin is counting on you.


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## Nor_Cal_Angler (Jul 3, 2008)

Angie B said:


> We'll just see.... I'm waiting on the next 60 days like a hawk!!
> 
> *I'm not willing to bank on someone we no nothing about*..... That is not a answer to Obama and the democrats. I'm disappointed and a tad bit pissed at the republican party....
> 
> Angie


You know, I was just saying to myself...."self, I know absolutly NOTHING about this guy BHO. I have NEVER heard of him before this election, where the hell did he come from, whats that you say, he's a senator, could have fooled me. Well I guess I should pay attention to him."

so I did, and you know what....I just dont like him, something stinks about him. He has to much of that "Bill Clinton" going on, slick talking, polished glam "hey look at me" biz.

He says all the wrong things to me, you know I dont need those "get your facts" "post a link" "where did you find that, _I'd like to verify it_" "dont mean a thing without a link" "snopes this, factcheck that" to tell me what my GUT already says!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy is an empty suit with a talking head!!!! thats all he does well is TALK, makes a wonderful speach dont get me wrong, his "I have a dream" is wonderful almost as good as the man himself, but as a man not even close to him.

But in the end, that is exactly what it boils down to, the difference between you and I, us and them, democrat and republican.....what does your GUT tell you....

mine says McCain Palin...08'

NCA

If you need someone elses work (the overbearing need of some to show a link) to show your stance,opinion,views,beliefs then you need to learn how to IDENTIFY with YOURSELF, you surely do not need to learn how to IDENTIFY with someone else.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Nor_Cal_Angler said:


> If you need someone elses work (the overbearing need of some to show a link) to show your stance,opinion,views,beliefs then you need to learn how to IDENTIFY with YOURSELF, you surely do not need to learn how to IDENTIFY with someone else.


Hummmmm...yes, well...

Are you suggesting a link in support of what you are saying is a positive or a negative?

Seeking Clarified Regards,

Joe S.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Angie B said:


> I'm a independent swing voter. I'm the voter the candidates need to win the election.


Your vote in Texas for Obama/Biden (should that be the route you choose) will amount to as much as my vote for McCain/Palin here in Illinois.


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## Nor_Cal_Angler (Jul 3, 2008)

Nor_Cal_Angler said:


> If you need someone elses work *(the overbearing need of some to show a link) to show your stance,opinion,views,beliefs* then you need to learn how to IDENTIFY with YOURSELF, you surely do not need to learn how to IDENTIFY with someone else.





Joe S. said:


> Hummmmm...yes, well...
> 
> Are you suggesting a link in support of what you are saying is a positive or a negative?
> 
> ...


Joe, your education should be able to tell you what I think is necessary when expressing the above "BOLDED" words.

But for others..I will clarify....when someone or myself says..."I think OBAMA is an empty suit, that talks his head off and is simply peat/repeat of the same old tired democratic party beliefs of, BIG GOVERNMENT at the expense of everything else"

People on this board SCREAM FOR A LINK, showing where that can be found, show me, show me, show me, where is there proof.....

or

McCain is the greatest thing since sliced bread....where did you see that, show me..justify that with a nice BLUE LINK I need to see that, because it just isnt so...

What I am refering to, is peoples overbearing need to NOT ALLOW SOMEONE THE RIGHT TO AN OPINION!!!!!!!!! 

Basically it is an attitude of "if you cant show me *who* you got your opinion from it does not count"

Its just sad to me is all...

Like my quote of Angie...it wasnt that I had a problem with Angie, actually I think she is right on, she is stating what SHE THINKS, and she happens to THINK that Sarah Palin is an unknown....so what...I pointed out, through her post that, I THINK BHO is an UNKNOWN.

hope that helped you Joe, and others that may want to question my reasoning....BUT

sorry I dont have a BLUE LINK to help you regards,

NCA

ps..I guess now would be a good time to go through my post with the RED PEN, because I have also noticed a tendency to pick on peoples grammer and spelling when an opinion has some validity, and there is no other recourse for the person that disagrees. But again, I wont go through my own post and pick out all of the spelling mistakes and grammer mistakes, thats what I have all of YOU out there to do.

*disclamer*: none of this is personal towards anyone in perticular, the use of the word YOU, means everyone. Same for words such as We,they, Us etc...I have big shoulders, and can CALL someone out if I have a beef with them...


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Angie B said:


> We'll just see.... I'm waiting on the next 60 days like a hawk!!
> 
> I'm not willing to bank on someone we no nothing about..... That is not a answer to Obama and the democrats. I'm disappointed and a tad bit pissed at the republican party....
> 
> Angie


I can tell you I would rather have McCain than Obama any day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

Obama will be a disaster for this country.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Nor_Cal_Angler said:


> But in the end, that is exactly what it boils down to, the difference between you and I, us and them, democrat and republican.....what does your GUT tell you....
> 
> mine says McCain Palin...08'




Yep…McCain and Palin values are closest to mine. Let’s know forget who is running for the presidency.



I am praying that McCain stomps Obama into a footnotes of American politics.


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## Paul Johnson (May 6, 2008)

After reading this thread, I noticed that there are many opinions, not necessarily backed up by fact. I would like to suggest the following articles:

1. Baracks Obama’s Ten Point Plan to “Change” The Second Amendment. American Rifleman. September 2008 p40

2. In Alaska, a Nuanced Record. The Wall Street Journal. Thursday September 4, 2008. p1

What is clear is that if Obama is president with Pelosi in the House and Reed in the Senate, we will only be able to say bang-bang as the ducks fly away in our hunt tests and field trials. As for Sarah Palins belief in pro-life, there is no evidence that she would attempt to get Roe v. Wade overturned. Then there is the issue of “experience.” I suppose that being governor of Arkansas prepares you to be president while being governor of Alaska does not.

Clearly, the liberals who include lawyers, professors, teachers, the media and pseudo hippies do not like Sarah. They all think that you and I are too stupid to govern ourselves and that we should only vote for the people that they select. As a cancer researcher that worked at a university for almost 30 years I can vouch for the fact that most university professors are ignorant about any subject outside their field of expertise and they are to arrogant to acknowledge their ignorance. This includes politics. Lawyers and the NEA have an ulterior motive for wanting a Democrat: their job security. The media all want to be royalty and they definitely think that you and I are stupid even though most of them cannot read or write above the fourth grade level. As for the pseudo hippies, they are the ones that came after most of us dropped back in and they never got a chance to express themselves.

Given the fact that Pelosi controls the House and Reed controls the Senate, an Obama presidency would mean that our democracy would become a socialist state with government oversight of everything including what you do in the privacy of your own home. You can be sure that it would not be long before they passed a law that would jail you for expressing an opinion that was not politically correct. If you do not believe this is a possibility, just look at our neighbor to the north, Canada. In Canada, if you make any derogatory comment about homosexuality, you can be thrown in jail. So much for free speech.

For those of you that like Barak Obama, maybe you can explain what he is saying. As far as I can tell, he, like all lawyers, is dancing on the head of a pin. In other words, confuse the jury.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> an Obama presidency would mean that our democracy would become a socialist state with government oversight of everything including what you do in the privacy of your own home. You can be sure that it would not be long before they passed a law that would jail you for expressing an opinion that was not politically correct.


I'm not a democrat. 

Didn't the Patriot Act darn near do something very similar. Liberals aren't the only ones that need watching.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Howard N said:


> Didn't the Patriot Act darn near do something very similar. Liberals aren't the only ones that need watching.


The Patriot Act was reauthorized in 2006 with Democrats in charge of both the House and the Senate, and is still in effect.

There were some minor changes made, but the critics and the criticisms remained the same -- that it is a violation of civil liberties.

Strange how we don't hear the hue and cry about it now with the Dems in charge? :roll:


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

AmiableLabs said:


> The Patriot Act was reauthorized in 2006 with Democrats in charge of both the House and the Senate, and is still in effect.
> 
> There were some minor changes made, but the critics and the criticisms remained the same -- that it is a violation of civil liberties.
> 
> Strange how we don't hear the hue and cry about it now with the Dems in charge? :roll:


Actually, there was MUCH "hue and cry" about it. The FISA provision/warrentless domestic spying is greatly revised and was a major sticking point. It is in its current form BECAUSE of Democrats, not enspite of the them.

The Executive Branch IS Accountable To The People Regards,

Joe S.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Joe S. said:


> Actually, there was MUCH "hue and cry" about it. The FISA provision/warrentless domestic spying is greatly revised and was a major sticking point.


Not true. Not according to its original critics in the House and Senate. They standby their original claims that it was and remains a violation of civil liberties. What was finally hammered out was between more moderate Democrats along with Republicans and the White House, and according to the original critics is merely window-dressing.

The government is still allowed to listen to phone calls with retroactive warrants just like before. 

And so there is no confusion, I support the Patriot Act. I just don't support duplicitous politics.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Paul Johnson said:


> After reading this thread, I noticed that there are many opinions, not necessarily backed up by fact. I would like to suggest the following articles:
> 
> 1. Baracks Obama’s Ten Point Plan to “Change” The Second Amendment. American Rifleman. September 2008 p40
> 
> ...


Outstanding post, Paul. _Huzzah!_ 

kg


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

AmiableLabs said:


> Not true. Not according to its original critics in the House and Senate. They standby their original claims that it was and remains a violation of civil liberties. What was finally hammered out was between more moderate Democrats along with Republicans and the White House, and according to the original critics is merely window-dressing.
> 
> The government is still allowed to listen to phone calls with retroactive warrants just like before.
> 
> And so there is no confusion, I support the Patriot Act. I just don't support duplicitous politics.


Perspective. As I recall the President resorted to more fear mongering to get it passed. The FISA provision was greatly altered to allow its passage.


For the record, the government has NEVER been ALLOWED to listen to phone calls without a warrent but that didn't stop them.

To be clear, are you suggesting that warrentless spying is or is not duplicitous politics.

Bill Of Rights Should Mean Something Regards,

Joe S.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

I would bet almost anyone that the Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Security hasn’t done much if anything. All either does is make paranoid people more paranoid and the sheep (which is most Americans) FEEL safe.



I got a new flash…guys Kevin, Joe and myself are NOT the type of people they need to be looking for in the war on terror dealio.


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## Kurt-MO (Jan 7, 2003)

Wow...every last word. I've read every last word.

You guys ROCK!!! 

Hot librarian look regards....
Kurt


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Hi Kurt!

Next time we get paired up to judge together, let's make it stick!

Good to see you here!

Chris


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## Kurt-MO (Jan 7, 2003)

Chris,
I wish I could say we will, but I'm probably out of the judging business for awhile. Too much going on with kids and work to commit any weekends to judge.

I'm always lurking here...just checking up on Joe S. makin sure he's behavin.....

Kurt


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Obama on ABC" My Muslim Faith"

Slip of tongue or finally the truth?

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74635


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## dixidawg (Jan 5, 2003)

Best. Presidential. Commercial. Ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> Obama on ABC" My Muslim Faith"
> 
> Slip of tongue or finally the truth?
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74635



Telling the truth.


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## Terry Britton (Jul 3, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> I would bet almost anyone that the Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Security hasn’t done much if anything. All either does is make paranoid people more paranoid and the sheep (which is most Americans) FEEL safe.
> 
> 
> 
> I got a new flash…guys Kevin, Joe and myself are NOT the type of people they need to be looking for in the war on terror dealio.


I bet it has done something. The same reason I have said Bernie Ebbers was the dumbest CEO in history. Why would a guy in charge of a large communications company want to cheat to the books to keep the company afloat when he could listen in on CEO's and Board Memebers of many other companies for insider trading information. I am sure people doing the snooping with the Patriot Act are also profiting very well with the information they are gaining.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> Obama on ABC" My Muslim Faith" Slip of tongue or finally the truth?
> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74635


I don't believe he _is_ a Muslim. I believe he confesses Christianity, crediting Jeremiah Wright for his conversion.

I believe, as all the evidence shows and is documented in the article, he _was raised_ a Muslim. And what I find disturbing are his denials of these facts. And most disturbing, the mainstream media won't report it.


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## SMITTYSSGTUSMC (May 12, 2008)

Nor_Cal_Angler said:


> Joe, your education should be able to tell you what I think is necessary when expressing the above "BOLDED" words.
> 
> But for others..I will clarify....when someone or myself says..."I think OBAMA is an empty suit, that talks his head off and is simply peat/repeat of the same old tired democratic party beliefs of, BIG GOVERNMENT at the expense of everything else"
> 
> ...



NCA

Thanks for this post many times I have been scolded for my spelling as I do not agree with a few of the everyday posters on this board, however my gut as full as it might be tells me for the very first vote of my life I.E. never voted before, that McCain is the right choice to make. I want to keep my guns and I don’t want to pay for a bunch of lazy @ss people who could get a job but choose not to because the government will pay them anyway. There is housing on every Military base in the country they can live in all they have to do is serve. They will also get a paycheck not welfare check something they earned not something given for nothing. I also believe that it is wrong to kill children, I.E. abortion (unless there is medical conditions that would kill both the mom and child) and (in the case of rape as we don’t want to breed bad genes into the pool). 

The number one reason for my vote is the right to keep my guns and the right to hunt. With those two in place if the economy goes south and we enter the depression that the Dumbocrats are worried about then I can still feed my family, and I love the taste of wild game. Duck, goose, deer, ****, squirrel, fish, bear, turkey, elk, bison are all rich in protein and easily accessible for now. You can bet you sweet little retirement check though that if Husain Barrack Obama is elected will lose these rights in the first four years. 

Just my gut talking, 

P.S. ran this threw word and spell check there are only 2 words that are misspelled take a guess as to what two. 

Smitty


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## Larkin (Feb 4, 2005)

AmiableLabs said:


> I don't believe he _is_ a Muslim. I believe he confesses Christianity, crediting Jeremiah Wright for his conversion.
> 
> I believe, as all the evidence shows and is documented in the article, he _was raised_ a Muslim. And what I find disturbing are his denials of these facts. And most disturbing, the mainstream media won't report it.


Kevin, his mother married an Indonesian when he was quite young. Muslim and Hindu are the predominant religions in Indonesia. But at age ten, he went to live with his white native-of-Kansas grandmother in Hawaii. The entire Muslim population in Hawaii now numbers about 3000, I couldn't find stats on that for forty years ago, but it's probably safe to assume it was less. It seems pretty unlikely that his grandmother would have been a practicing Muslim. 

Clearly, the Obamas are not practicing Muslims and they are not bringing up their children in the Muslim faith. And even if they were, so what? We're not at war with Muslims, we're at war with Muslim extremists. Extreme anything is pretty intense--- look at the IRA. 

I have grave reservations about Obama, but they have nothing to do with his religion. It might be useful, though, to remember that discriminating against someone because of their faith (or lack of it) is against federal law.


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Obama said on ABC yesterday" *MY MUSLIM FAITH"* George Stepanopolis had to correct him http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74635. Which is it? is he a Christian who attended a Hate America church for 20 yrs before it became a political necessity to denounce Rev Wright? or is he a closet muslim? In either event he is far too extreme for the office of President. Electing a Shinto President during WWII would have been unthinkable, so should be electing a muslim whether or not he is apostate today.


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## Legacy 6 (Jul 2, 2008)

Larkin said:


> Kevin, his mother married an Indonesian when he was quite young. Muslim and Hindu are the predominant religions in Indonesia. But at age ten, he went to live with his white native-of-Kansas grandmother in Hawaii. The entire Muslim population in Hawaii now numbers about 3000, I couldn't find stats on that for forty years ago, but it's probably safe to assume it was less. It seems pretty unlikely that his grandmother would have been a practicing Muslim.
> 
> Clearly, the Obamas are not practicing Muslims and they are not bringing up their children in the Muslim faith. And even if they were, so what? We're not at war with Muslims, we're at war with Muslim extremists. Extreme anything is pretty intense--- look at the IRA.
> 
> I have grave reservations about Obama, but they have nothing to do with his religion. It might be useful, though, to remember that discriminating against someone because of their faith (or lack of it) is against federal law.


Larkin,

I believe BHO's college roommate was a Muslim, he of course has family and extended family who are actively practicing Muslims, and he went to a Muslim school until age 12... I think he's probably well steeped in the Islamic faith.

But the "other side of his faith" seems no less extreme than Muslim Extremists. Jeremiah Wright himself was originally a member of the Nation of Islam, but later returned to Christianity as he latched onto the views of two race based theologists who became his mentors, Dwight Hopkins and James Cone. The Fathers of Black Liberation Theology.

Black liberation theology is an ethnocentric outgrowth of 'liberation theology', which was essentially a highly selective interpretation of the Gospels in an attempt to co-opt Christianity to promote communism and marxism. Liberation theology began with the Catholic Church in Latin America and elsewhere, and was used by radical priests and nuns who supported Fidel, Che Guevara, the Shining Path terrorists in Peru and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Later, it spread to some of the mainstream Protestant denominations in other areas.

Both Hopkins and Cone are now tenured radicals in academia. Hopkins is a professor at the University of Chicago's Divinity School; Cone works out of New York's Union Theological Seminary.

Back in the late 1960's and the early 1970's theologians like Hopkins and Cole essentially decided that blacks were the Chosen People. James Cone, the dean of the 'black liberation' theological school of thought, teaches that Jesus Christ himself is black, rather than a Jew:

_"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."

(from William R Jones, "Divine Racism: The Unacknowledged Threshold Issue for Black Theology, in African-American Religious Thought: An Anthology")_

The largely secular Nazis used a similar logic to co-opt the German churches with the "Aryan Christianity" movement in Nazi Germany, which claimed that Jesus was not a Jew but an Aryan Galilean, and that the Aryan race was the "chosen people".

Substitute `black' or `Afro-American' for Aryan and that is exactly where the UCC Trinity Church and Jeremiah Wright are coming from.

And this is what Obama was referring to in his March 14 speech when he said: "I knew Reverend Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago."

Also, he and his wife have been active members for two decades, and have a long standing close personal relationship with Jeremiah Wright..or as Obama himself put it, this racist and anti-Semite is `like family.' Even more damning as far as I'm personally concerned is that he allowed his children to listen to and be indoctrinated by Wright during their formative years. One customarily doesn't do that with one's children unless one agrees with what is being taught on a deep level.

I think the answer lies in the conflicted nature of Barack Obama himself.

Growing up almost entirely outside of the perspective of an American black, by his own admission Obama deliberately sought that kind of militant black street cred back in his college years, almost as if he were trying to fill a hole within himself by pretending.

Who can really say, but I think the REAL BHO will come out eventually... One way or another, we'll find out who the REAL Barry Hussein Obama is, one way or another.


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

I think I love her more each day


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## SMITTYSSGTUSMC (May 12, 2008)

ISSUES cut and Dry

JOHN McCAIN 
BARAK OBAMA 

Favors new drilling offshore US 

Yes 
No (May have changed recently)

Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it 

Yes 
No 

Served in the US Armed Forces 

Yes 
No

Amount of time served in the US Senate 

22 YEARS 
1/2 Year

Will institute a socialized national health care plan 

No 
Yes

Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy 

No 
Yes

Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately 

No 
Yes 

Supports gun ownership rights 

Yes 
No 

Supports homosexual marriage 

No 
Yes 

Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase 

No 
Yes 


Voted against making English the official language 

No 
Yes 

Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals 

No 
Yes 

CAPITAL GAINS TAX 

MCCAIN 

0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax. 

OBAMA 

28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.) 

DIVIDEND TAX 

MCCAIN 

15% (no change) 

OBAMA 

39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.') 

INCOME TAX 

MCCAIN 

(no changes) 

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250 

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) 

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double! 

INHERITANCE TAX 

MCCAIN 

- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax) 

OBAMA 

Restore the inheritance tax 

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes. 

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA 

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!! 

You can verify the above at the following web sites: 


http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html <http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html> 
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html
<http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html> 
http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes <http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes> 
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/...n_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html 
<http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html%A0> http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/ <http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/> 

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/


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## Tatyana (Nov 6, 2007)

> INHERITANCE TAX
> 
> MCCAIN
> 
> ...


This year, federal inheritance/estate tax is imposed on estates over $2 million. Next year, estate tax will be imposed on estates over $3.5 million. In 2010, the inheritance tax goes away for that year. If Congress does not do anything, then in 2011 we're back again to having inheritance tax on estates over $1 million.

I certainly hope that McCain/Palin would do something about inheritance tax because I don't want it to go back to only $1 million being exempt.


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2008)

SMITTYSSGTUSMC said:


> ISSUES cut and Dry
> 
> JOHN McCAIN
> BARAK OBAMA
> ...



Ok, nothing like a debate. I am on the fence now until all the issues come out, however since you did provide the facts as you say from YOUR links, It appears to me that you just parsed out all negatives for Obama. Being fare, not all of McCains Policies are great either, but I noticed you didn’t parse out any negatives there. I think you deciphered what your feelings are and not the exact facts are! So here are some excerpts from YOUR links in whole where space allowed. 

These are just a few:

Estate Tax:
Both want to slice the estate tax, McCain more so than Obama.
The estate tax is phasing out and is completely eliminated for 2010, but it snaps back to 2001 levels -- a 55 percent top rate with the first $675,000 exempt -- at the end of that year. McCain wants a 15 percent rate, and a $5 million exemption, while Obama advocates a 45 percent rate and a $3.5 million exemption.
Overall, the Tax Policy Center said people with very high incomes would benefit the most under McCain's proposal, while low- and middle-income taxpayers would see larger tax breaks under Obama's plan and wealthy taxpayers would see their taxes increase.
ON this one I like Obama’s policy!

On Iraq:

McCain:
Does not believe in setting a withdrawal timetable. During a July interview, McCain said, "anything is a good timetable that is dictated by conditions on the ground. Anything is good. But the timetable is dictated not by an artificial date but by the conditions on the ground."

Obama:
Would redeploy U.S. troops at a pace of one to two brigades a month. The Obama campaign says the proposed schedule would remove them from Iraq within 16 months and be complete by summer 2010.

*I am undecided on this one!*

Offshore Drilling:

Offshore drilling

Obama:

Previously was against lifting federal government restrictions on offshore drilling, but appeared to modify his position in an August 1 statement that supported a bipartisan legislative effort that would expand offshore oil drilling. Part of the statement read: "I remain skeptical that new offshore drilling will bring down gas prices in the short-term or significantly reduce our oil dependence in the long-term, though I do welcome the establishment of a process that will allow us to make future drilling decisions based on science and fact."

McCain:
Believes the federal government should lift restrictions on offshore drilling and provide incentives to states permitting offshore exploration. McCain said he opposed lifting such restrictions during his 2000 presidential campaign run. Against drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

*According to the experts, drilling offshore will only reduce our imports by less than 1% and not do anything to the gas prices.*


Guns:

McCain:
Voted for a 2005 law prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers stemming from acts committed by others using their products. Supports instant criminal background checks on people purchasing guns and believes law should apply to gun sales at gun shows. Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and voted against such a ban. Voted against a 10-year extension of the assault weapons ban. Supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging and voted for 2005 child safety lock amendment. Voted against 2005 amendment placing restrictions on rifle ammunition that is "designed or marketed" to be armor-piercing. Opposed 1994 crime bill, which contained the assault weapons ban. Has a C+ rating from the NRA. Regarding the Supreme Court case District of Columbia v. Heller, McCain signed a friend-of-the-court brief urging the Supreme Court to overturn the District of Columbia gun ban. Voted for 2006 amendment prohibiting confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency.

Obama:
Voted against a 2005 law prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers stemming from acts committed by others using their products. Supports instant criminal background checks on people purchasing guns and believes law should apply to gun sales at gun shows. Calls for permanently reinstating assault weapons ban. Voted for 2005 amendment placing restrictions on rifle ammunition that is "designed or marketed" to be armor-piercing. Supports making guns childproof and voted for 2005 child safety lock amendment. Would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which allows the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to share data on history of sales and transfers of firearms used in crimes only with federal agencies for national security purposes, or prosecutors needing it for an ongoing criminal investigation or prosecution. Regarding the Supreme Court case District of Columbia v. Heller, Obama did not sign a friend-of-the-court brief that urged the Supreme Court to overturn the District of Columbia gun ban. At a debate, when asked about case, Obama said he believes "that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right." Voted for 2006 amendment prohibiting confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency

*Being a concealed weapons permit holder this is a no brainer for me. McCain all the way!!!*


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2008)

HealthCare:

Obama:
Would create a national health insurance program for individuals who do not have employer-provided health care and who do not qualify for other existing federal programs. Does not mandate individual coverage for all Americans, but requires coverage for all children. Allows individuals below age 25 to be covered through their parents' plans.

McCain:
Opposes federally mandated universal coverage. Believes competition will improve the quality of health insurance. 

Supports health care tax dividends for low-income Americans, medical malpractice reform, improving electronic record-keeping, expanding health savings accounts, and encouraging small businesses to band together to negotiate lower rates with health care providers:

*Can’t say I like McCains plan here. He wants to tax you on any premiums that are supplemented by your employer as income. He also wants to give a limited tax credit on money you spend on premiums. (good, but for companies who supplement your premium, you would end up still being taxed more) Our employer pays 100% of our premiums, so you can understand why I don’t favor his plan.*

Social Security:

Obama:
Strongly opposed to privatizing Social Security. Believes that the first place to look for ways to strengthen Social Security is the payroll tax system. Currently, the Social Security payroll tax applies to only the first $97,500 a worker earns; Obama supports increasing the maximum amount of earnings covered by Social Security. Would work with Congress to choose a payroll tax reform package that will keep Social Security solvent for at least the next half century.

McCain:
Advocates supplementing Social Security benefits with individual investment accounts. Prefers slowing the growth benefits to raising taxes. When asked about Social Security during a GOP debate, he stated: "Every man, woman and child in America needs to know it's going broke, and we've got to do the hard things. We've got to fix it for the future generations of Americans ... It's got to be bipartisan. And you have to go to the American people and say we won't raise your taxes. We need personal savings accounts, but we [have] to fix this system."


*Being my age and from what the Bush plan was for private accounts (I think 1000.00 a year max contribution) I don’t really care for private accounts. So that means if you were to save 1000 dollars a year at 8% for 30 years I would have 123,345 in my account. Something has to be done with SS, but relying on individuals saving for their own retirement will take a large undertaking considering 47% of Americans say they have nothing saved at this time for retirement. I also don’t want to see current benefits reduced for my parents.*


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## SMITTYSSGTUSMC (May 12, 2008)

Foghorn first of all welcome to the forum and way to come out swinging man that is awsome on the other hand I don't think you understand I am voting McCain as well want to keep my guns!!!

Smitty


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Tatyana said:


> This year, federal inheritance/estate tax is imposed on estates over $2 million. Next year, estate tax will be imposed on estates over $3.5 million. In 2010, the inheritance tax goes away for that year. If Congress does not do anything, then in 2011 we're back again to having inheritance tax on estates over $1 million.


While I don't favor taxation on appreciated holdings such as Real Estate where only by sale will the value be actually determined. I do not think individuals should be able to excape tax above a certain amount on those holdings where a value can be established without sale. Examples - Stocks, Bonds, CD's, Cash, etc.


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Foghorn said:


> *Being my age and from what the Bush plan was for private accounts (I think 1000.00 a year max contribution) I don’t really care for private accounts. So that means if you were to save 1000 dollars a year at 8% for 30 years I would have 123,345 in my account. Something has to be done with SS, but relying on individuals saving for their own retirement will take a large undertaking considering 47% of Americans say they have nothing saved at this time for retirement. I also don’t want to see current benefits reduced for my parents.*


I have never heard a reduction in current benefits brought forward by anyone - I think you need to rethink private accounts, if they don't happen your retirement is going to be very meager. 

I happen to believe that the reason many oppose privatizing is they don't want to be responsible for their own decisions - good or bad. There is no guarantee when you are making your own decisions - but other than this year have beat 8% by a whole lot. Also remember that most of the people giving advice are doing it to make a living - if they were smart enough they could live on their earnings from investing!


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Not today.


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2008)

Marvin S said:


> I have never heard a reduction in current benefits brought forward by anyone - I think you need to rethink private accounts, if they don't happen your retirement is going to be very meager.
> 
> I happen to believe that the reason many oppose privatizing is they don't want to be responsible for their own decisions - good or bad. There is no guarantee when you are making your own decisions - but other than this year have beat 8% by a whole lot. Also remember that most of the people giving advice are doing it to make a living - if they were smart enough they could live on their earnings from investing!



No, I would have to disagree with you there. The reason most are opposed to privatization is because now you are once again giving an option to individuals to decide on how to invest there money. If they make the wrong investment choices then as you said “they don't want to be responsible for their own decisions - good or bad. There is no guarantee when you are making your own decisions “ then not only will they not have a guaranteed amount like SS provides today, they will end up with a reduced amount come time to retire. Also, here is a excerpt from WSJ that the McCain campaign discussed then about reducing benefits. If you raise the age or reduce the cost of living adjustment then that there my friend is a reduction in benefits! So it has been discussed.

McCain Might Raise the Retirement Age and Reduce Cost-of-Living Adjustments. *“[T]he McCain campaign says the candidate intends to keep Social Security solvent by reducing the growth in benefits over the coming decades to match projected growth in payroll tax revenues. Among the options are extending the retirement age to 68 and reducing cost-of-living adjustments,* but the campaign hasn’t made any final decisions. *‘You can’t keep promises made to retirees,’ said Mr. Holtz-Eakin, McCain’s chief economic aide.” *[Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08]


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Foghorn said:


> If you raise the age or reduce the cost of living adjustment then that there my friend is a reduction in benefits! So it has been discussed.
> 
> McCain Might Raise the Retirement Age and Reduce Cost-of-Living Adjustments. *“[T]he McCain campaign says the candidate intends to keep Social Security solvent by reducing the growth in benefits over the coming decades to match projected growth in payroll tax revenues. Among the options are extending the retirement age to 68 and reducing cost-of-living adjustments,* but the campaign hasn’t made any final decisions. *‘You can’t keep promises made to retirees,’ said Mr. Holtz-Eakin, McCain’s chief economic aide.” *[Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08]


1st - I'm not your friend - we have entered into a discussion about SS - I have made my statements & believe them to be correct - I'm not interested in discussing semantics. 

SS has been reducing benefits for years - they just assign you a different COLA factor. They also take more out of your check to cover medicare's mismanagement. By mismanagement I mean too many things are covered that should not be, like the taxi company that made 2 million dollars in a year hauling medicare patients to their appointments. Other than that they do a pretty good job! 

I do not believe it to be a reduction in benefits if I receive more next year than I receive this year. Had they extended the retirement age prior to my retirement I would have worked longer to pick up the slack. They will not go back, or haven't previously. 

If you do not believe in privatization, so be it, I wish it had been there when I was inputting into the system. They could always split it into Plan A (for those who want to coast) & Plan B for those willing to get with it. 

The sad thing is there won't be anything left unless something is done. Those like yourself who believe Uncle Sammy will take care of you need to think a little harder or your'e going to be living out of a garden in a government co-op. My children & grandchildren will collect precious little of what they have input, which is unforgivable, but it's the way government manages money.


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

I was not a big McCAIN fan but I do think McCAIN loves this country and I would have voted for him even if he had not made a GREAT V.P choice. I don't see how anyone that does love this GREAT UNITED STATES of AMERICA could ever vote for OBAMA. I bet he would have chosen BIN LADIN as his V.P. if he thought he could have still gotten the democratic nomination (and he might have). I guess some people just want someone in office that will give them something for nothing and take our religious freedoms and guns away.


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## M Remington (Feb 16, 2006)

Michael, you comments are ridiculous. None of what you say is remotely true (other than the fact that John McCain loves his country).


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## LeRoy (Dec 24, 2004)

I haven't posted in a long time here ,but this is one of the things that I feel a need to speak on . I feel that no man has the right to tell any lady what she should or should not do with her body. If you disagree then maybe a lady should have the right to tell a man what he can do with his body.
LeRoy


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

LeRoy said:


> I haven't posted in a long time here ,but this is one of the things that I feel a need to speak on . I feel that no man has the right to tell any lady what she should or should not do with her body. If you disagree then maybe a lady should have the right to tell a man what he can do with his body.
> LeRoy


It's not her body that concerns me, its the babies. BTW, my understanding is that McCains stance is to reverse RvW but not to outlaw abortion, but to allow the states to decide the issue locally.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Blackdawg and Remington, 
You two telling anyone that their posts are rediculous and baseless is just freakin hysterical to me. 
BTW, has anyone figured out who is typing stuff into that teleprompter for the puppet obama to repeat? I don't trust anyone that doesn't know his stuff well enough to repeat it without a prompter.


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Achiro, first off, I came back after dinner and deleated my post because I thought it over and do not think I should be attacking anybody on here for what they wrote. This was done prior to reading the posts of yours and the other guy. 

Now, after reading your 2nd post, maybe I should rethink that. You talk about reading telepromptors. Palin is lost without one. She reads very well anything the McCain speech writers put up for her. All you have to do to confirm this is look closely at what is going on in Alaska. She promises open government, welcomes the investigation into her ethics, and promises full co-operation. Since then, it has been road block after road block. The investigating committee is made up of 2 dems and 3 republicans, so dont give me that hogwash that it is agianst her. It is obvious that she does not want the truth to come out. She has made statements in Alaska wihtout a teleprompter and now has to stand by her statements. Yes the "recall" word is floated around, and is directed at the gal that is trying to run for VP. Her and McCains poll numbers are slipslidding away. GO OBAMA!!! bud


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

akblackdawg said:


> Achiro, first off, I came back after dinner and deleated my post because I thought it over and do not think I should be attacking anybody on here for what they wrote. This was done prior to reading the posts of yours and the other guy.
> 
> Now, after reading your 2nd post, maybe I should rethink that. You talk about reading telepromptors. Palin is lost without one. She reads very well anything the McCain speech writers put up for her. All you have to do to confirm this is look closely at what is going on in Alaska. She promises open government, welcomes the investigation into her ethics, and promises full co-operation. Since then, it has been road block after road block. The investigating committee is made up of 2 dems and 3 republicans, so dont give me that hogwash that it is agianst her. It is obvious that she does not wantthe truth to come out. She has made statements in Alaska wihtout a teleprompter and now has to stand by her statements. Yes the "recall" word is floated around, and is directed at the gal that is trying to run for VP. Her and McCains poll numbers are slipslidding away. GO OBAMA!!! bud


It is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. It saddens me to know that there are people so uninformed out there that plan on voting.


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

And I am happy that I will cancel out your vote, and my wife will put us in the plus collumn for Obama. Too bad we arn't in the same state, but you mostly likely couldn't handle Alaska. GO OBAMA!! bud


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

akblackdawg said:


> And I am happy that I will cancel out your vote, and my wife will put us in the plus collumn for Obama. Too bad we arn't in the same state, but you mostly likely couldn't handle Alaska. GO OBAMA!! bud


But it looks like Alaska and Oklahoma will both go McCain so.............


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

C'mon, Patrick....let bud have his moment....he's worked hard for it.....

kg


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Sarah flew into Cedar Rapids airport and declared, "I'm glad to be in Grand Rapids." She and John refused to go to town to see all the flood damage, but the bad press changed their minds.

==

Tina Fey for V.P. If you can't be qualified, at least be funny.
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/palin-hillary-open/656281/


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

akblackdawg said:


> And I am happy that I will cancel out your vote, and my wife will put us in the plus collumn for Obama. Too bad we arn't in the same state, but you mostly likely couldn't handle Alaska. GO OBAMA!! bud


GO ahead vote Obama. But how about you tell me why? I don't think you have any good reasons that you really know. We all know your track record with facts mr "eic is the same thing as hiv"


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

I am always amazed at people who attack other people over lack of credentials ,,,when in fact they themselves have far less 
Its not that it takes alot of gaul
But it takes a mental illness or some type of personality deficientcy.
They can't see that they are 2 faced hipocrites,story twisting bas-turds.

.
And yet we are overwelmed with people like this in our government
No wonder we are in the soup we're in. I can understand now how great nations have colapsed from within.
Pete


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

Illinois has the *worst rated governor *in the nation(according to Barry thats like 57 states right?) Our gov learned his politics at the knee of the Chicago Daily machine, the same place old Barry got "all" his early experience and was an organizer or whatever he was.  Anybody wonder why the Illinois Senator didn't have his own gov talk at the DNC????? Wonder no more. Our state is a wreck, broke and broken. I'll take Sarah anyday of the week with a big old smile on my face. Anyone who thinks that the possible heiarchy of leftists -- Pelosi, Biden and BHO will actually help this country fall into the nutso category Pete was talking about. 

Singing Kum Bye Yah and Clinging to my Gun,


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

K G said:


> C'mon, Patrick....let bud have his moment....he's worked hard for it.....
> 
> kg



Oh yeah back to that Pesky electoral college thingy again. 

And Algore got more votes regards.....


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

i think it is now officially the Palin/McCain ticket, isn't it? you'd think so, the way you're all carrying on.

not surprised she thought she was in Michigan. we can look forward to a lot more of this.-Paul


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

What is up with McSame? He is going against everything he once stood for. He was against government regulation, now he is for it. He was once tooting his horn about how honest he was and now some of his campaign ads are lies. He was against off shore drilling now its drill baby drill.
Last Tuesday he said he was glad the government put a cap on bailing out more companies in financial trouble (because he had talked to Sec. Paulson) and then the next day when the government decided to go ahead and bail out AIG he was for it. Was he lying Tuesday or when he did the reversal on Wed? 
Before Sarah Palin accepted the nomination for Vice President she said she would work with the Alaskan legislature to clear up the incident where she allegedly (sp?) fired a supervisor because he would not fire her ex brother-in-law. Now she refuses to testify about it as does her husband along with others who want to drag this out until after the election. I don't get it. 

I really don't like the choices we have for electing a President this term. I guess I will have to vote for the lesser of the two evils.


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Archio, McCain knows absolutely nothing about economics, and he likes to follow Bush all the way, he voted with Bush over 90% of the time this past 8 years, why would you expect anythiing different then what we have had the past 8 years. And one of your biggest concerns should be with his health. At 72, with the history of cancer 4 times, he could end his term before it even starts. Do you really want Sarah as Pres. Think about it, look at her history. She is a real snake in the grass ( and you thought we had no snakes in Alaska, shows your ignorance there). She is corrupt and lies about Troopergate, has her husband doing her dirty work for her. She even is campaigning on being a advocate for disabled children, yet cut $275,000 from a special education program for disabled children (cut its budget in half), this is in a state with a huge budget surplus. You need to open your eyes to reality. GO OBAMA!!! bud


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Bud, what the heck??? Do you even realize what items for special ed were cut??? I know what what one of them was...funding for the Alaska Military Academy. You know, the school where all the kids who had trouble following the rules in public school end up...Yea, they call that a "special ed program" LOL Besides the Military Academy was funded by another source and that's why it was cut. 
Bud, please read this:
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2008/09/did_palin_cut_special_educatio.html

Bud will you pay my part of Obama's tax increase if he is elected?


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## greyghost (Jun 11, 2004)

akblackdawg:

If Sarah Palin is so bad:

How come she has a 80% approval rating as the Gov?
How come she decided not to have an abortion if she really didn't care about special needs children?
If her ex-brother-in-law is such a great guy, why would he taser his own son?

What more inside information do you wish to share with us? Your statements just re-affirm my committment to support McCain/Palin.

But I don't need a lot of motivation, I flew off the Oriskany 5 years after McCain was shot down, fought in the same war, and connot begin to understand what those brave men were subjected to during captivity. I just know it means something to me. 

Free country, say what you will.

Pete


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey Roger, ya think politicians might lie, backpedal, and about face?

I'm not to happy with the choices we have in this presidential election just like I felt 4 years ago. I'm voting for the one that's the lesser of two evils and that ain't the empty suit.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

so we should vote far anyone who was a POW if they run for office? no matter what?-paul


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## greyghost (Jun 11, 2004)

Paul...I don't give a rip who you vote for. 

But having the opportunity to leave captivity and the subsequent torturing as McCain did and not leave,which surely would have been a demoralizing event to the remaining captured servicemen, is good enough a measure of a man's character for me. 

Paul, no one is going to listen to what I have to say on this board, and I surely will not persuade anyone as to who they should vote for on this board. We probably all know who we will vote for and that's OK. Vote for whovever you want.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Roger Perry said:


> What is up with McSame? He is going against everything he once stood for. He was against government regulation, now he is for it. He was once tooting his horn about how honest he was and now some of his campaign ads are lies. He was against off shore drilling now its drill baby drill.
> Last Tuesday he said he was glad the government put a cap on bailing out more companies in financial trouble (because he had talked to Sec. Paulson) and then the next day when the government decided to go ahead and bail out AIG he was for it. Was he lying Tuesday or when he did the reversal on Wed?
> Before Sarah Palin accepted the nomination for Vice President she said she would work with the Alaskan legislature to clear up the incident where she allegedly (sp?) fired a supervisor because he would not fire her ex brother-in-law. Now she refuses to testify about it as does her husband along with others who want to drag this out until after the election. I don't get it.
> 
> I really don't like the choices we have for electing a President this term. I guess I will have to vote for the lesser of the two evils.


Much of this post has more to do with talking points coming out of the dims camp than it does on facts. One example, the "lie" of the kindergarden sex ed ad. It is in fact true and the Obama camp kept saying it was a lie. Just because they say it's a lie doesn't mean it actually is. 
As far as the current stuff, I will get some info on that in a minute.


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

akblackdawg said:


> Archio, McCain knows absolutely nothing about economics, and he likes to follow Bush all the way, he voted with Bush over 90% of the time this past 8 years, why would you expect anythiing different then what we have had the past 8 years. And one of your biggest concerns should be with his health. At 72, with the history of cancer 4 times, he could end his term before it even starts. Do you really want Sarah as Pres. Think about it, look at her history. She is a real snake in the grass ( and you thought we had no snakes in Alaska, shows your ignorance there). She is corrupt and lies about Troopergate, has her husband doing her dirty work for her. She even is campaigning on being a advocate for disabled children, yet cut $275,000 from a special education program for disabled children (cut its budget in half), this is in a state with a huge budget surplus. You need to open your eyes to reality. GO OBAMA!!! bud



Bud,

What did you do Tivo MSNBC , then type the talking points.

You sound like a Liberal broken record.

Reagen was 73 when he was eleacted.....and turned into the GREATEST Prez EVER !!!!

Your concerned about Troopergate...... your kidding me right ??? Would you allow any 10 year old child you know get tazed ???? Or how would you act if you knew a Trooper in your district was drinking while on duty ????

I dont think McCain/Palin are bud's with a man and women who bombed and tried to kill Americans. 

You want reality....Obama is a Socialist.....if elected, get ready for soup kitchens and welfare lines.

I guess "Americas chickens have come home to roost" 

You Libs need to face the truth..... you elected a young inexperienced Chicago thug, and to add icing in the cake .....he then picked the wrong VP.

Chad


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

akblackdawg said:


> Archio, McCain knows absolutely nothing about economics,


In 2005 McCain co-sponsored a bill that was trying to do something about Fannie may and freddie mac. He co-sposored with 3 other Rep Senators and a few Rep congressmen, he mentions in a statement to the PRes that if something wasn't done that the taxpayers would suffer. Hmmm, sounds like he was trying to do something while Obama was busy accepting donations (the second highest of anyone) from FM/FM. That doesn't sound like someone that knows nothing.
http://www.retrievertalk.net/showpost.php?p=19755&postcount=15
http://www.retrievertalk.net/showpost.php?p=19756&postcount=16



akblackdawg said:


> And he likes to follow Bush all the way, he voted with Bush over 90% of the time this past 8 years, why would you expect anythiing different then what we have had the past 8 years.]


It's the 10% I'd be more interested in. Much of what they vote on is fluff stuff anyway that most vote one way or another. 




akblackdawg said:


> She is corrupt and lies about Troopergate, has her husband doing her dirty work for her. She even is campaigning on being a advocate for disabled children, yet cut $275,000 from a special education program for disabled children (cut its budget in half), this is in a state with a huge budget surplus. You need to open your eyes to reality. GO OBAMA!!! bud


Reality? HAHA! You need to spend less time spewing rumors and more time fact checking.


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

Voting for Obama ? Look at your dogs and somehow make them understand that they will never get to hear a gunshot again , see that flyer go down , get up early to get to the blind on time for opening day , it'll only be bumpers from now on , etc. ,etc, .
Voting for Obama ?Let your dog know that you choose to take away what the dog lives for . Let your dog know that the dog is truly your protection , having turned in all your firearms thanks to Obama / Biden / Pelosi . Can't do retriever work , will now train for protection .
Voting for Obama ? Can't afford the entry fees anymore because of Obama's plan to increase federal taxes on guns and ammo 500% , so the sport dies from lack of participation.And Obama's mandate to require a Gov. issue license to purchase a gun means no one from any club will be buying any popper guns . 
But you are still voting for Obama ? I know you will never make me understand why . Good luck trying to convince the dog .
Go to www.nraila.org for insight to the Democrats plan to disarm America. 
SEMPER FI - From my cold , dead hands .


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

akblackdawg said:


> At 72, with the history of cancer 4 times


Do you even know what kind of cancer or are you just quoting the liberal media?


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

John,

they said the same thing 16 years ago when Clinton was voted in. 

would you please name and give the bill numbers for all the anti-gun legislation the Bush administration reversed during their tenure that was put in place during Clinton's terms of office?

i've been voting for about 37 years now. this is a broken record that has been playing and skipping for at least that long.

i have no doubt i will own the same guns i'm hunting with now till i'm too old to do it anymore. then i'll give them to my grandkids to hunt with.-paul


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

paul young said:


> John,
> 
> they said the same thing 16 years ago when Clinton was voted in.
> 
> ...


Paul, have you looked at BHO's voting record on guns? Have you looked at the seats in the house and Senate? This is a much different time than when Clinton was voted in. Fewer are working across the aisle than ever before. I would have agreed with you in previous elections, this one concerns me a lot.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

but he won't be voting on any anti-gun bills as president. neither will McCain. if you're concerned about this issue, by all means vote for the senatorial or congressional candidate who best represents your opinions and interests.

it is highly unlikely that either legislative house will have a veto-proof majority, which is the only way for the President to shape legislation.-Paul


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> Bud will you pay my part of Obama's tax increase if he is elected?


Are you "rich" (annual income over$5M/yr)? Obama isn't proposing a middle class tax increase.

No matter who's president, the bills from the Iraq will come due sooner or later and we'll all pay...

The trade deficits seem to be coming due on Wall Street now...


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

By all means, we should vote for the Presidential candidate who has NEVER (as in "EVER," as in "NOT ONCE") originated a piece of legislation, neither for the State of Illinois, nor for the US of A as a Senator.

He's got skills, but they're on the surface. 

The facts speak for themselves regards,

kg


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

ErinsEdge said:


> Do you even know what kind of cancer or are you just quoting the liberal media?


He has had four instances of melanoma. The first in 1993 and the last, which resulted in the scarring of his face where the tumor and lymph nodes were removed, in 2002. Information on this came from extensive medical records that McCain released during his first campaign for the presidency along with updates they released earlier this year which indicate that he is currently cancer free. (See http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/us/politics/09mccain.html and http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/05/24/medical_records_state_mccain_fit_cancer_free/) From an actuarial perspective, McCain's prospects for surviving a four year term are pretty good. His odds of surviving a second term would be much worse.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

paul young said:


> but he won't be voting on any anti-gun bills as president. neither will McCain. if you're concerned about this issue, by all means vote for the senatorial or congressional candidate who best represents your opinions and interests.
> 
> it is highly unlikely that either legislative house will have a veto-proof majority, which is the only way for the President to shape legislation.-Paul


No but if a liberal anti-gun congress knows they can pass something that won't be veto'd by the pres, do you not think they would be all over that? Also, one more liberal judge and the "verdict" from the SCOTUS would have been different in the DC case and suddenly only militias would be safe from gun laws.


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## Henry V (Apr 7, 2004)

achiro said:


> Just because they say it's a lie doesn't mean it actually is.


Hmmmm... I was thinking that just because the Palin/McCain camp says it is the truth over and over and over doesn't make it the truth.

You know like "I told Congress thanks, but no thanks to that bridge to nowhere." or "I have nothing to hide regarding the investigation" or "the fundamentals of the economy are sound" or "I am a Reagan republican who believes in less regulations" or how about the big one of "we are the party of smaller government and fiscal restraint".

Is it just me, or does it looks to others like the "straight talk" express has turned into the "double talk" express or the "we're really not sure what we are talking about" express?

Thanks for the afternoon entertainment break. Good to see everyone here believes in truth and does not tolerate a misrepresentation of the facts or a re-write of history.
Don't blame me regards...........


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Keith Stroyan said:


> Are you "rich" (annual income over$5M/yr)? Obama isn't proposing a middle class tax increase.
> 
> No matter who's president, the bills from the Iraq will come due sooner or later and we'll all pay...
> 
> The trade deficits seem to be coming due on Wall Street now...


Keith "rich" the upper 1% that we always hear about is around 360 thousand...NOT 5M. 
Here is a simple breakdown, and remember this doesn't include stuff like payroll taxes, capital gains taxes, and others. THis is ony the income tax. You'll notice that anyone making over 111 thousand(thats JOINT)will pay less with McCain. THere is a 2 HUNDRED doallar difference if someone makes over 66 thousand. Below that we start getting into income redistribution.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Henry V said:


> Hmmmm... I was thinking that just because the Palin/McCain camp says it is the truth over and over and over doesn't make it the truth.
> 
> You know like "I told Congress thanks, but no thanks to that bridge to nowhere." or "I have nothing to hide regarding the investigation" or "the fundamentals of the economy are sound" or "I am a Reagan republican who believes in less regulations" or how about the big one of "we are the party of smaller government and fiscal restraint".
> 
> ...


I will say again, most of this is crap being spread as talking point by the dims. Context matters btw.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

YardleyLabs said:


> He has had four instances of melanoma. The first in 1993 and the last, which resulted in the scarring of his face where the tumor and lymph nodes were removed, in 2002. Information on this came from extensive medical records that McCain released during his first campaign for the presidency along with updates they released earlier this year which indicate that he is currently cancer free. (See http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/us/politics/09mccain.html and http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/05/24/medical_records_state_mccain_fit_cancer_free/) From an actuarial perspective, McCain's prospects for surviving a four year term are pretty good. His odds of surviving a second term would be much worse.


Actually he had a squamous cell carcinomas removed from his leg in May. They are attributing the other skin cancers to sunburns while being held outdoors as a POW. According to the medications he's taking he's in pretty good shape for 72. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/05/24/2008-05-24_john_mccains_had_cancer_but_hes_ok.html


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

K G said:


> By all means, we should vote for the Presidential candidate who has NEVER (as in "EVER," as in "NOT ONCE") originated a piece of legislation, neither for the State of Illinois, nor for the US of A as a Senator.
> 
> He's got skills, but they're on the surface.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure where your "facts" are coming from but they are completely incorrect. Surely you're not relying on Palin's diatribe at the convention which was long on attitude but short on facts (See http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html). He has authored over 150 bills as a senator and co-sponsored more than 400 more. Many became law, including:


Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
 Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
The 2007 Government Ethics Bill—became law.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

achiro said:


> Keith "rich" the upper 1% that we always hear about is around 360 thousand...NOT 5M.
> Here is a simple breakdown, and remember this doesn't include stuff like payroll taxes, capital gains taxes, and others. THis is ony the income tax. You'll notice that anyone making over 111 thousand(thats JOINT)will pay less with McCain. THere is a 2 HUNDRED doallar difference if someone makes over 66 thousand. Below that we start getting into income redistribution.


Since the Bush tax cuts, I have saved roughly $30,000 in federal tax. I would gladly have paid that $30,000 if we could go back to a more balanced budget.


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

achiro said:


> Keith "rich" the upper 1% that we always hear about is around 360 thousand...NOT 5M.
> Here is a simple breakdown, and remember this doesn't include stuff like payroll taxes, capital gains taxes, and others. THis is ony the income tax. You'll notice that anyone making over 111 thousand(thats JOINT)will pay less with McCain. THere is a 2 HUNDRED doallar difference if someone makes over 66 thousand. Below that we start getting into income redistribution.


You don't cite your source, but I suspect you will find that these estimates include the net effect of all changes including changes in corporate taxes and capital gains that would affect income earned primarily by higher income individuals. The other thing you don't mention is that the McCain plan carries a much higher price tag than the Obama plan with no strategy for paying that cost. Eliminating all the "pork" doesn't pay a significant part of the tab. I don't believe we can afford another president that will mortgage our future to finance tax cuts for the wealthiest few.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

ErinsEdge said:


> Actually he had a squamous cell carcinomas removed from his leg in May. They are attributing the other skin cancers to sunburns while being held outdoors as a POW. According to the medications he's taking he's in pretty good shape for 72. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/05/24/2008-05-24_john_mccains_had_cancer_but_hes_ok.html


From the same article:



> McCain has had four cases of more dangerous skin melanomas, the most serious occurring on his left temple in 2000.


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## Mike Noel (Sep 26, 2003)

YardleyLabs said:


> You don't cite your source, but I suspect you will find that these estimates include the net effect of all changes including changes in corporate taxes and capital gains that would affect income earned primarily by higher income individuals. The other thing you don't mention is that the McCain plan carries a much higher price tag than the Obama plan with no strategy for paying that cost. Eliminating all the "pork" doesn't pay a significant part of the tab. I don't believe we can afford another president that will mortgage our future to finance tax cuts for the wealthiest few.


The problem is NEITHER candidates budgets are balanced. Based on what they "say" they will do they both spend more than they will bring in.

Now, given that, would you rather have a Dem in the WH rubber stamping everything the Pelosi gang wants to spend money on or a Republican in the WH at least balancing out an out of control congress? I will take the later.....give me gridlock ANY day in Washington.

Additionally, people make so much about the Presidents current level of disapproval, how come no one has noticed that the Democratically controlled congress has a LOWER approval rating than George Bush????

Source: Real Clear Politics for the approval numbers


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## Henry V (Apr 7, 2004)

achiro said:


> I will say again, most of this is crap being spread as talking point by the dims. Context matters btw.


So, the truth is now "crap being spread". If you want to provide evidence that anything I put out there is untrue then have at it. If you have evidence that she told congress, thanks but no thanks, let's see it. Yardley just also posted facts for you to refute.

Palin has stated multiple lies over and over the past two weeks and you say its "context". Sure, keep drinking the kool-aid.

McCain said Monday that the fundamentals of the economy were sound. What freaking world does he live in? Also, his proposed economic plan will driver the deficit even higher than Obamas. Neither is fiscally sound.

McCain casts people as elitists yet he doesn't even know how many houses he owns.

Other very notable right wingers have publicly condemned others' family values and blamed their parents for becoming pregnant out of wedlock (e.g. Jamie Lynn Spears) but then they reverse course entirely to embrace a VP candidate who did exact the same thing and whose daughter followed her lead. Of course then it is a personal matter not worthy of public discussion and does not reflect on that person's character. Nice and selective there.

From my perspective you and many others regularly choose to ignore the facts you disagree with to rationalize any position and then can change your position to fit any "context". How convenient. I'm sure you think the same of me so we will just have to disagree.

Also, as long as we're at it, could someone please show me any data that demonstrates that a republican president has ever reduced the size of government, the budget, or the deficit? I did a quick search and only found data demonstrating the opposite. All I have seen is borrow and spend and bigger government and bigger deficits. Oh, I know, its the congress fault or 9/11. Yeah , right...... and my kids think all the debt is just great for their futures.


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

While decrying US debt Hussein pledges $50 BILLION of our money to UN to fight world poverty WTF??????????????

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/0...t-promises-billions-for-anti-poverty-program/


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

achiro said:


> Below that we start getting into income redistribution.[/IMG]


Ronnie Regan was the champion of income redistribution. His tax policies sent 20% of the nation's wealth to 2% of the population.

He campaigned on "balanced budget" - twice - and had the a deficit larger than all previous presidents combined. A deficit that pales compared to Shrub's, of course.

Who is going to pay the bills regards,


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

I was listening to a Sarah Palin out take and she referred the Republican ticket as the Palin/McCain ticket. ----- If I were McCain I would hire a food taster.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Roger Perry said:


> I was listening to a Sarah Palin out take and she referred the Republican ticket as the Palin/McCain ticket. ----- If I were McCain I would hire a food taster.


My wife told me that - she was impressed, but I think it was after she announced how glad she was to be in a city 300 miles away from where she was.

But hey, she's giving John lots of nice hugs. He'll die a happy man.


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## Mike Noel (Sep 26, 2003)

Keith Stroyan said:


> My wife told me that - she was impressed, but I think it was after she announced how glad she was to be in a city 300 miles away from where she was.
> 
> But hey, she's giving John lots of nice hugs. He'll die a happy man.


Just like Barack saying he was in St. Louis when he was actually in Kansas City during the simulcast from some family's living room during the Dem convention. 

They all do it.


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

NY Congrtesscritter calls Palin "disabled" Rangel ought to worry about his tax troubles and shut his big mouth!

http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/congressman.charles.rangel.2.821541.html


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

Still loving her.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Michael Wilson said:


> Still loving her.


...it's difficult to recognize and leave an abusive relationship.

You Can Do It Regards,

Joe S.


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## Tim Thomas (Jan 31, 2008)

She's kickin' his [email protected]%#S!!!


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

Looks Obama and Biden will have ALL the GAY votes. That should say a lot.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Michael Wilson said:


> Looks Obama and Biden will have ALL the GAY votes. That should say a lot.


Says gay people, empowered with the same Constitutional rights as straight people, vote too.

It's understandable that some just don't get it.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Joe S. said:


> Says gay people, empowered with the same Constitutional rights as straight people, vote too.
> 
> It's understandable that some just don't get it.


Obama is sliding in the polls daily ever since he promised “Every American will have a job if I am elected President”


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Obama is sliding in the polls daily ever since he promised “Every American will have a job if I am elected President”


What polls are you looking at, Patrick?

Not saying it isn't so, just sayin' I haven't seen those polls.


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

She is mopping the floor with him.


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Obama: the best reason to vote for McCain Palin.


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## Michael Wilson (Nov 7, 2004)

I bet Obama is as happy as he can be with the Bailout. We wouldn't want anyone kicked out of their house just because they bought more house than they could afford.


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