# The Myth of the Amateur Trained FC/AFC Dog



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

In another thread the poster asked which dogs entered in the 2019 NARC were “amateur” trained.
The image of the mythical Amateur trainer is a blue collar working person who raises their dog from puppy hood, training their dog in their spare time before and after work on public property to compete with the so-called “pro trained dog.”

The truth of the matter is that this person - what I will call the Mythical Amateur - is exceedingly rare. Sabirely who posted elsewhere may be that person. I don’t know. I do know that most of the successful Amateur handlers I know do not fit this profile.

Instead, they may:

- Have others raise/train their puppies 
- Have others do the basics
- Have others take their dogs south for the winter or north for the summer
- Be independently wealthy, own magnificent training grounds, and train year round
- Be retired and train full time with a well established group with access to wonderful grounds

When you dig into the facts and not the myth, you may discover many of the handlers with pro trained dogs are more deserving of your appreciation. Many of them work during the week, carve out time to train with their dogs as much as they can to compete with people who devote all of their free time to training dogs - often with the unseen help of a top pro. (Many of these groups arrange for private training sessions with Pat Burns.)

I don’t intend to promote one faction or another. I simply point out that the analysis is not as simple as many would make it to be


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

The fact that the "retail" amateurs" who have their dog with a pro, and only train sporadically....that they can go out and be competitive with the "Pro Ams", those who have grounds, train everyday, etc....frankly is amazing.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Ted Shih said:


> In another thread the poster asked which dogs entered in the 2019 NARC were “amateur” trained.
> The image of the mythical Amateur trainer is a blue collar working person who raises their dog from puppy hood, training their dog in their spare time before and after work on public property to compete with the so-called “pro trained dog.”
> 
> The truth of the matter is that this person - what I will call the Mythical Amateur - is exceedingly rare. Sabirely who posted elsewhere may be that person. I don’t know. I do know that most of the successful Amateur handlers I know do not fit this profile.
> ...


I was lucky enough to have a good mentor, good grounds, a good group, a good dog, and lots of luck. For full disclosure, I had a subsequent dog with a pro and learned a lot training with that pro I was able to apply to the dog I was training myself that became FC/AFC. That dog I had with a pro ran more trials in 3 years than the dog I trained myself ran her entire career. I am a white collar guy, who works mostly from home, so have flexible hours. I have training ponds 5 minutes from my house and access to good grounds. I just enjoy training my own dogs. 

The other example is a guy who ended up with a dog I bred (given to him free). He works full time, trained the dog with the help of Steve Ferguson, a good group. and a few Pat Burns seminars. She has 3 AM wins, is an AFC, qualified for the national am twice, and ran female test dog at the National in GA. He is exactly what Ted described in the first post. Super rare, I would say.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Mike W. said:


> The fact that the "retail" amateurs" who have their dog with a pro, and only train sporadically....that they can go out and be competitive with the "Pro Ams", those who have grounds, train everyday, etc....frankly is amazing.


Sorry, I didn't follow that very well. My reading comprehension is poor this morning. 

Are you basically saying, it is amazing that an amateur that has a pro trained dog and rarely trains with said dog can go out and compete with the Am's that are more hard core and train everyday? 

The terms - "Retail Amateur" and "Pro Amateur" were knew to me on this thread. I "think" I know what you mean but not totally positive.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

That's what I am saying.

A full-time amateur (someone who trains his dogs 4x+ per week let's say) is pretty damn tough to beat if they have good dogs, and they usually do. And given the work they are willing to put in, more power to them. But it's amazing that some of the weekend warrior Ams can be competitive (ie last series).


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I think there may be one or two folks in Alaska who have 100% AM trained dogs... I am fairly certain also Howard N trained his own dogs, Roy McFall as well.. (both now deceased)... 

I honestly can't imagine training an all age dog without at least some use of a pro. Unless one is independently wealthy and has a superb training group/grounds access, knowledge, it would be near impossible... so, yes, my hat's off to anyone who trains and handles their own dog in any of our sports... but especially FT's.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

While exceedingly rare, I think Valarie Marks and FC-AFC Smackwater's Coast to Coast may be one of the rare exceptions. She kept Coast as a stud fee pup when I bred my MH bitch to her AFC dog.
As far as I know, she still works a regular job (she might be retired now), isn't independently wealthy and hasn't placed Coast with a pro trainer at any point. They have done pretty well against some pretty serious competition, both in the Derby and AA stakes.

I think Chris Hatch and Saber might fall into the same rare category, but he may have used a pro for basics.


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

At the last field trial I went to David Barrow won the Open and Mike McDaniel won the Amateur.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

I think James Roberts would fit the mold of a true Amateur. Blue collar working guy, breeds, raises, trains and handles his own for the most part. 

I think he and Kristi's dogs accomplishments are excellent. I think he is up to 4-5 competitive dogs now and 3 have titled FC or AFC or both, National Am finisher and one went 9 series. Jack is knocking on the AFC title (has win needs some points). 

Regardless of the "type" of Amateur you are, to compete successfully in any weekend trial is admirable and I have much respect.


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Mike W. said:


> That's what I am saying.
> 
> A full-time amateur (someone who trains his dogs 4x+ per week let's say) is pretty damn tough to beat if they have good dogs, and they usually do. And given the work they are willing to put in, more power to them. But it's amazing that some of the weekend warrior Ams can be competitive (ie last series).


Got it, thanks. That's what I figured.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't know Mike but as I recall David runs his own construction company, or is retired at this point, and has several years experience serving as a professional trainer of both handlers and dogs. Dave is a great guy who I have a good deal of respect for, but I wouldn't consider him a "blue collar guy training nights and weekends".


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## Andy (Apr 20, 2004)

Personally, contrary to the title of the initial post, I don’t consider the Amateur Trained FC/AFC dog to be a "myth." While it may be difficult, frustrating, time consuming, sacrificial, and require a degree of luck (i.e., getting the right puppy), it’s something for which those of us who work full time jobs and train our own dogs strive. 
Frankly, while I enjoy field trials, my love is for training my dogs. If I happen to do well at a trial, it’s a great feeling, but even if I never receive another ribbon I’ll keep on training and keep on competing … and continue striving to create that mythical dog. 
Andy


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

My point is not that the "Mythical Amateur" does not exist, but that they are exceedingly rare. Take a look at the 130 dogs entered in the 2019 NARC and see how many fit the bill.


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

DarrinGreene said:


> I don't know Mike but as I recall David runs his own construction company, or is retired at this point, and has several years experience serving as a professional trainer of both handlers and dogs. Dave is a great guy who I have a good deal of respect for, but I wouldn't consider him a "blue collar guy training nights and weekends".


Are you saying he has been a professional retriever trainer? I know he has worked for K2 or whatever the name of that is. The rest is a little bit beside the point to me. Blue collar is probably better for training dogs.


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Never been categorized as a "myth" before. Never sent a dog to a Pro. Raised all from puppies except one! Very limited campaigning in USA but 9 Champions including FC/AFC and FTCH/AFTCH and 3 CDN National wins. Yes, since retiring, I train on superb winter grounds with small Amateur group but that's only 3 months of the year. The rest I am 90% training alone on limited grounds or hunting my dogs!

I also disagree that the Amateur that handles their Pro trained dog has a harder challenge or is a bigger accomplishment. Just try and 100% manage all your dogs' training from puppy to Basics to Advanced and then solve all the problems that arise yourself as well as decide what to do everyday to keep your dog competitive. Designing your set-ups and balancing all is huge. And, often with a blue collar job or other interests/schedules (family, farm, garden, horses, fishing, hunting, photography for example!). Moreover, often Amateurs stick with the current dog(s) despite realizing that their talent level may not be in top 10%.

So I am here to say it can be done but it takes a lot of work, passion, study and time. I agree it is rare these days but it is not a myth! I can name others who have also been mythical Amateur Trainers.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

DL said:


> Are you saying he has been a professional retriever trainer? I know he has worked for K2 or whatever the name of that is. The rest is a little bit beside the point to me. Blue collar is probably better for training dogs.


I'm talking about his K2 experience.


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## Wagon Wheel Retrievers (Mar 25, 2018)

TED: Your DESCRIPTION is SADLY the TRUTH !!! But was the AMATEUR really intended to be for the PRO's GUPPIES ??? Or for the REAL AMATEUR ??? If ANYONE wonders why the average age of the players are getting older please call me and be ready for an ADULT conversation !!!! My number is 515-571-4995 !!! And if YOU are one of the people that wonder WHY it is getting near impossible to find help to play your fake game LOOK in the MIRROR !!!


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## TexasK (Dec 11, 2016)

Wagon Wheel Retrievers said:


> TED: Your DESCRIPTION is SADLY the TRUTH !!! But was the AMATEUR really intended to be for the PRO's GUPPIES ??? Or for the REAL AMATEUR ??? If ANYONE wonders why the average age of the players are getting older please call me and be ready for an ADULT conversation !!!! My number is 515-571-4995 !!! And if YOU are one of the people that wonder WHY it is getting near impossible to find help to play your fake game LOOK in the MIRROR !!!


...and I thought I had a drinking problem


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## Daren Galloway (Jun 28, 2012)

Ted Shih said:


> My point is not that the "Mythical Amateur" does not exist, but that they are exceedingly rare. Take a look at the 130 dogs entered in the 2019 NARC and see how many fit the bill.


I know of 2 without looking at the entries.


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## Gray_Chin (Feb 24, 2017)

Mr. Voigt said it all, but I’ll add this…If you look at the etymology of the word myth, it comes from the ancient Greek “mythos” with the specific lack of distinction between true and false. Aristotle positioned that the “mythos” was the spirit of the theatrical play and the “mythos” was the background of the Greek tragedy, dealing mainly with gods and heroes. In our case, with the mythology of the successful amateur, to homeschooled amateurs, this has great symbolic significance, with the picture of the working class hero taking his dog to the upper echelons of the game. It provides a way to find hope and motivation, even if the lines of fantasy and reality are blurred. 

Unlike fantasy that is nobody’s truth, and history that seeks to be everybody’s truth, mythology is somebody’s truth. To the boot strappers, this is our truth, even if it is only rooted in our subjective experience. I don’t think it can be understood by non-boot strappers, because they have not gone through the challenge, frustration, and heartache involved in learning the game and building their own dog. With that, they will also never understand the immense joy, satisfaction and pride that can be achieved when things work out. Raising and training is not always fun, but I have learned more about my dogs, and myself, going through the process than if I had payed someone else to do it. Neither is right or wrong, just a personal choice with its own set of rewards and consequences….and part of the myth may be believing that the extra care, detail, bond, and knowledge gained through the process, will be the edge, on the last bird in the fourth…if not there is only one thing to blame, yourself…and this can be difficult and a barrage to the ego. 

In the end, whether ones story ends in triumph or tragedy can be objectively or subjectively measured, yet ultimately, history will dictate the factual objectivity of a blue ribbon. I’m sure there are those who think the musings of an old duck hunter, with a seal chasing bird monster that moonlights in the game, are pointless, but I’ll argue that the myth is very important to those with the grit and rugged individualism, that strive to attain the unattainable, and these same individuals are still relevant and important to the sport.


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Gray Chin who are you or do I know you and did you run the Maine Trial?


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

Gray_Chin said:


> Mr. Voigt said it all, but I’ll add this…If you look at the etymology of the word myth, it comes from the ancient Greek “mythos” with the specific lack of distinction between true and false. Aristotle positioned that the “mythos” was the spirit of the theatrical play and the “mythos” was the background of the Greek tragedy, dealing mainly with gods and heroes. In our case, with the mythology of the successful amateur, to homeschooled amateurs, this has great symbolic significance, with the picture of the working class hero taking his dog to the upper echelons of the game. It provides a way to find hope and motivation, even if the lines of fantasy and reality are blurred.
> 
> Unlike fantasy that is nobody’s truth, and history that seeks to be everybody’s truth, mythology is somebody’s truth. To the boot strappers, this is our truth, even if it is only rooted in our subjective experience. I don’t think it can be understood by non-boot strappers, because they have not gone through the challenge, frustration, and heartache involved in learning the game and building their own dog. With that, they will also never understand the immense joy, satisfaction and pride that can be achieved when things work out. Raising and training is not always fun, but I have learned more about my dogs, and myself, going through the process than if I had payed someone else to do it. Neither is right or wrong, just a personal choice with its own set of rewards and consequences….and part of the myth may be believing that the extra care, detail, bond, and knowledge gained through the process, will be the edge, on the last bird in the fourth…if not there is only one thing to blame, yourself…and this can be difficult and a barrage to the ego.
> 
> In the end, whether ones story ends in triumph or tragedy can be objectively or subjectively measured, yet ultimately, history will dictate the factual objectivity of a blue ribbon. I’m sure there are those who think the musings of an old duck hunter, with a seal chasing bird monster that moonlights in the game, are pointless, but I’ll argue that the myth is very important to those with the grit and rugged individualism, that strive to attain the unattainable, and these same individuals are still relevant and important to the sport.



Well said.


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## Cayuga Dew (Nov 30, 2014)

Gray Chin - Thank you for such a well written post!


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## Thomas Running (Sep 19, 2011)

From Ted Shih earlier post on Read the rule book: I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to handlers with multiple entries. 

Probably my biggest complaint about the amateur with four or more dogs is that he/she is driving the solo dog Amateur out of the game. When I began 20 years ago, it was not uncommon to see Amateurs in station wagons with wire crates pull up to run their dog. That working class person is almost extinct from the game. In fact, the middle class person has almost been run out of the game. If the pattern of amateurs with unlimited money, time, and dogs continues, you will soon drive the upper middle class out of the sport. Why would someone want to go through the brain damage of putting on a FT only to be crushed by the weight of numbers. Very few amateurs venture into the Open, where the Big Dog Truck Pros compete with strings of 10+ dogs. If we're not careful, we will see that pattern continue into the Amateur. For the true Amateur, that has access to grounds, winter grounds, good training group, talented dog etc., the reasons Ted posted above are still making many Amateurs asking why am I trying to play this game. Not to mention the cost and time demands.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Thomas Running said:


> Not to mention the cost and time demands.


I think the two biggest discouraging factors are the time demands and the difficulty of finding a dog with the talent to be a bonafide all age competitor. Not that the financial part is not a factor but it is one that can be worked around. In the last 5 +/- years we have lost 5 of what I consider the younger crowd, that is people younger than 60. All were 8 point judges, above average to excellent judges, honest, and conscientious and at one time were all part of my training group. I think for all of them the time commitment was the ultimate deal breaker. I chose this addictive hobby 48 years ago and every time it is new dog time I question my sanity however as I told friends 15 years ago when I contemplated quitting, I hate fishing, I was terrible at golf, and I was too old to make new friends. The new puppy is 2 1/2 weeks old, I hope he is real good because he will probably be the last one.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

I think when someone starts to question about people's dogs attaining a FC AFC by utilizing professional training or by NOT being the sole trainer theirself, they might ask themselves if they are trying to justify why they don't have one or will not be able to.

I know exactly why I don't have one. It's simple. I haven't won an All Age trial and earned the additional points with one dog. Myth or dream - to want a completely self trained field champion is a worthy goal. It is attainable and has nothing to do with what others do. 

See ya in the field!!! Harry


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

TexasK said:


> ...and I thought I had a drinking problem


Lol. Thanks for the funny.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Rare, but definitely not a myth. Fair number of Ams out there still doing it. Maybe they don’t get recognized because they aren't of the “in” crowd. 

I judged one a few weeks ago that will be in MT. He didn’t place the weekend I judged, but they are an exceptional team and have come a long way in a few years. Very good team.


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

I have a good and enthusiastic group. Nobody is young but we have nice dogs and desire to win. You’ll see us on Sundays.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Sammi and Justin don't send their dogs anywhere, do they? Seems we have quite a few on the middle/northeast circuit


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

They train their own and work hard at it.


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## Nathan Beach (Aug 19, 2017)

Gray_Chin said:


> Mr. Voigt said it all, but I’ll add this…If you look at the etymology of the word myth, it comes from the ancient Greek “mythos” with the specific lack of distinction between true and false. Aristotle positioned that the “mythos” was the spirit of the theatrical play and the “mythos” was the background of the Greek tragedy, dealing mainly with gods and heroes. In our case, with the mythology of the successful amateur, to homeschooled amateurs, this has great symbolic significance, with the picture of the working class hero taking his dog to the upper echelons of the game. It provides a way to find hope and motivation, even if the lines of fantasy and reality are blurred.
> 
> Unlike fantasy that is nobody’s truth, and history that seeks to be everybody’s truth, mythology is somebody’s truth. To the boot strappers, this is our truth, even if it is only rooted in our subjective experience. I don’t think it can be understood by non-boot strappers, because they have not gone through the challenge, frustration, and heartache involved in learning the game and building their own dog. With that, they will also never understand the immense joy, satisfaction and pride that can be achieved when things work out. Raising and training is not always fun, but I have learned more about my dogs, and myself, going through the process than if I had payed someone else to do it. Neither is right or wrong, just a personal choice with its own set of rewards and consequences….and part of the myth may be believing that the extra care, detail, bond, and knowledge gained through the process, will be the edge, on the last bird in the fourth…if not there is only one thing to blame, yourself…and this can be difficult and a barrage to the ego.
> 
> In the end, whether ones story ends in triumph or tragedy can be objectively or subjectively measured, yet ultimately, history will dictate the factual objectivity of a blue ribbon. I’m sure there are those who think the musings of an old duck hunter, with a seal chasing bird monster that moonlights in the game, are pointless, but I’ll argue that the myth is very important to those with the grit and rugged individualism, that strive to attain the unattainable, and these same individuals are still relevant and important to the sport.



yes indeed!!


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

I appreciate the challenge of training my own dogs from puppyhood up without the assistance of a pro while having a demanding job and a family. Although I don't have a titled dog, I have one that's close and others I believe are on the way. I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of someone that uses a pro (under different circumstances I would certainly use one), but I believe the reward will be that much sweeter when we reach our goals.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> My point is not that the "Mythical Amateur" does not exist, but that they are exceedingly rare. Take a look at the 130 dogs entered in the 2019 NARC and see how many fit the bill.


That's all Duane Ray was seeking to discuss when he started the "original" post. How many in the 2019 NARC fit the bill?

Some comments on Duane's motivation for the post: He started, as did I, in the NAHRA hunt test program in New York State in the late 1980s. This was when hunt tests were just getting going. As his original hunt test dogs passed on, his family grew, he raised kids, coached teams, forged a successful career and put kids through college. 

Recently Duane researched litters, pedigrees, etc. to get his new pup. He would train this pup 100% amateur, and would run field trials this time. Duane compiled an amazing set of crib notes, dissecting the Hillmann puppy material, as he laid out his puppy training plan. He studied training instructional materials diligently as he prepared to get this puppy home.

Just as Czar, the new lab pup, came to Duane's home, Duane's father became quite ill. Duane took on regular trips across state lines to tend to his parents' needs, and Duane's father sadly passed during those months. 

In the meantime, Czar was sent to a pro for basics, so that Duane could pick things back up when his life/schedule settled.

Duane is not there to knock anyone who uses a pro. Duane is one himself. He was just seeking to understand who has home-schooled dogs that made it to "The Great Gathering" in Montana (as a mythical former RTF participant used to call it.)

- a friend of Duane's, Chris


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Sounds like Duane has what it takes to give it a go. 
If he still lives in Lebanon I know proper training grounds are hard to come by in that neck of the woods. Farm land is abundant but decent water not so much. No longer in the game but Franz Herr in Montville, not far from Lebanon, has a Pennsylvania designated Retriever Training property which permits all you want to do. Has a small tech pond too. Not sure if anyone is currently training there. 
As training yourself really requires a good group he would need to seek out a few folks to the east a bit. Like Berks n Chester counties. Several of whom have trained and trialed FC-AFC's and qualified for several Nationals.


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## Daren Galloway (Jun 28, 2012)

Am I a myth Ted?


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## Cayuga Dew (Nov 30, 2014)

Breck. 
Thanks for the positive reply. Just as Rome was not built in a day, training my first FT Retriever is huge learning process. Fortunately I have a good training partner and am able to network with several other amateur trainers and groups. 
As you indicated Technical water is probably the most Challenging to get access.

Working hard everyday at training and I truly enjoy training vs trialing. My dog is coming into his prime, but a creeping issue is haunting me and that is the #1 issue I need to get control of. 

My training partner is familiar with the Montville property and we are checking into it, but he thinks it may be over grown now.



Breck said:


> Sounds like Duane has what it takes to give it a go.
> If he still lives in Lebanon I know proper training grounds are hard to come by in that neck of the woods. Farm land is abundant but decent water not so much. No longer in the game but Franz Herr in Montville, not far from Lebanon, has a Pennsylvania designated Retriever Training property which permits all you want to do. Has a small tech pond too. Not sure if anyone is currently training there.
> As training yourself really requires a good group he would need to seek out a few folks to the east a bit. Like Berks n Chester counties. Several of whom have trained and trialed FC-AFC's and qualified for several Nationals.


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

To those that train their own dogs many congratulations. I am not in a position ,by choice, to train my own dog year round. I have my dogs with a pro during the winter and train myself with help during the spring and summer. I owe much to both the pros and amateurs I train with. In today's game to get any placement is an accomplishment. I do agree it is very satisfying to beat pros in the open though  

Best to ya'll, especially those running here starting Saturday.

Jeff


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

You probably know who might help you with the creeping.
As far as over grown, offer to mow, wack, whatever of course.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

I think Dr. Ed hit the nail on the head in terms of the biggest challenge. 

Having only built one dog, intending to compete and diverting over to MH, I remember those couple of years as training 2 hours a day away from the house, all day most Sundays with a group and often times on Saturday for a portion of the year, putting thousands of miles on m truck to get to good technical water, needing to groom connections to get access... It was a huge undertaking that required forsaking many other things like family time and fishing, if you wanted to accomplish much. 

Ozzy was a good boy and made it to MH at a little over 3 yo when life took a turn and I went to work training dogs professionally. It was all over for us after that. 

I wouldn't give up the experience I had and the friends I made on that journey but I won't ever attempt it again unless I get to actually retire and buy some grounds. 

It's not mythical but it's certainly rare and has been since I was around the game 10+ years ago. 

A lot of those who would like to be included in this category have flexible work schedules and train while a normal "blue collar" person would be at work by necessity. That's how I got it done.


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

I am quite stupid so bear with me in saying this. Some of it is helped by being rural. I enjoy seeing the pictures of the prairies, oil fields, etc... If you can walk out the back door and do all your basics and transition don't you got a leg up on the other guy? I got 15 acres. I ain't driving nowhere's to do basics. Regardless of how far you get with it, it sees like the nature of the beast to me. Maybe it doesn't look like a myth if you got different scenery. Maybe you ask yourself why not instead? It doesn't matter either way. It was something I typed.


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## Bbrown (Jan 5, 2013)

I spoke with Mark Smith about this but he reminded me that Bob Kennon trained NFC AFC Shadow of Otter Creek with no professional help all while working a full time job and making due with grounds that he could find in South Louisiana. Bob won the 1978 National Open with that dog. Bob did later get dogs professionally trained however Shadow was not one of them nor had Bob had any professional training.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Bbrown said:


> I spoke with Mark Smith about this but he reminded me that Bob Kennon trained NFC AFC Shadow of Otter Creek with no professional help all while working a full time job and making due with grounds that he could find in South Louisiana. Bob won the 1978 National Open with that dog. Bob did later get dogs professionally trained however Shadow was not one of them nor had Bob had any professional training.


.
What was name of nice bitch Bob had around a dozen years ago who wasn't breedable for some reason?


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

I believe Bob’s dog name was Feather


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Mark Sehon said:


> I believe Bob’s dog name was Feather[/QUOTE.
> .
> 
> Right Feather it was, thanks.
> ...


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## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

Train before work....be at work by 7am....do water blinds at lunch....meet for training after work...train till dark.....weekends watch the sunrise preparing to train all day..do puppy marks with head lights on the pond using glow in the dark bumpers..watch the sun set....winter drills under lights...I remember those days....breath it...eat it...live it...we had a heck of a group back in those days...all of us worked 40 plus hours a week....had many FC Afc"s ...national qualifiers...dual champion chessies...and national finalists......Randy


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## Ironwood (Sep 25, 2007)

Randy Bohn said:


> Train before work....be at work by 7am....do water blinds at lunch....meet for training after work...train till dark.....weekends watch the sunrise preparing to train all day..do puppy marks with head lights on the pond using glow in the dark bumpers..watch the sun set....winter drills under lights...I remember those days....breath it...eat it...live it...we had a heck of a group back in those days...all of us worked 40 plus hours a week....had many FC Afc"s ...national qualifiers...dual champion chessies...and national finalists......Randy


Yes, you got to enjoy it and the time with the dog(s). It is what sets us apart. It is the journey not the destination.


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