# Do you let the momma dog eat placentas after birthing?



## jax (May 18, 2010)

Wondering how many of you let the momma dog eat the placentas while she is whelping the pups? The vet today told me there is no real nutritional value in having her eat the placentas, that it will mostly just give her diarrhea. Thoughts? Opinions?


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

If they wanted to eat them, I let them. Just try to keep count so you know none were retained.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

jax said:


> Wondering how many of you let the momma dog eat the placentas while she is whelping the pups? The vet today told me there is no real nutritional value in having her eat the placentas, that it will mostly just give her diarrhea. Thoughts? Opinions?


Change your vet


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

In the wild eating placentas served a purpose--to hide the birth from predators. No real need for that now and most of our domesticated dogs cannot handle it without stomach upset or vomiting.

If they get one I let it go but if I can I get them and toss them.

Meredith


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## Purpledawg (Jul 16, 2006)

Let em eat a few, help set her system to be a Mom that cleans the pups. Perhaps it is a wisetail the eating doesn't help hormonal changes to take place. I still let them do what comes natural. Do know to many may give her loose stools, Do record the number found to make sure none get retained


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

You better be quick and moms know just how to shear them right. If you don't want them to get them, get 2 hemostats to crush the cord and then cut. I'm for the natural and then if I can I grab them later


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Yup. If they want them. Good hormones. I used to stress about it but no more. My girls don't get raging diarrhea from them but I use a probiotic daily during pregnancy and lactation. I do watch carefully to make sure mom doesn't teat the umbilical cord too close to the body. I use unwaxed floss to tie them off.


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

polmaise said:


> Change your vet


You may think polmaise was just a drive-by poster, but I think I know what he was saying. A vet who claims there is no real nutritional value in placentas doesn't understand canine reproduction IMHO. Wild canines eating the placentas might help hide the birth from predators as mwk56 suggests, but I think it was primarily for the nutritive value. A new canine momma isn't likely to leave her new brood to go hunting for at least a few days. The nutrient packed placentas help to tide her over while she recovers from parturition and cares for her neonates. 

I believe the problem with post-partum diarrhea isn't due to a bitch eating the placentas, but due to an over anxious caretaker overfeeding her right after she whelps. I suggest you allow her to eat all of the placentas she wishes, insure she doesn't chew too closely to the puppies belly (I hold each puppy in my hand with the umbilical cord between my fingers so mama can't get any closer than a finger width), and take it easy with the first few meals after whelping. I don't allow mama any food until she passes a black gooey stool or two that is the remnants of the placentas.

These are my two bits. Do as you wish.

Swack


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## jnelson (Sep 16, 2014)

Swack said:


> You may think polmaise was just a drive-by poster, but I think I know what he was saying. A vet who claims there is no real nutritional value in placentas doesn't understand canine reproduction IMHO. Wild canines eating the placentas might help hide the birth from predators as mwk56 suggests, but I think it was primarily for the nutritive value. A new canine momma isn't likely to leave her new brood to go hunting for at least a few days. The nutrient packed placentas help to tide her over while she recovers from parturition and cares for her neonates.
> 
> I believe the problem with post-partum diarrhea isn't due to a bitch eating the placentas, but due to an over anxious caretaker overfeeding her right after she whelps. I suggest you allow her to eat all of the placentas she wishes, insure she doesn't chew too closely to the puppies belly (I hold each puppy in my hand with the umbilical cord between my fingers so mama can't get any closer than a finger width), and take it easy with the first few meals after whelping. I don't allow mama any food until she passes a black gooey stool or two that is the remnants of the placentas.
> 
> ...


I agree with Jeff 100%. I have observed enough whelping processes that whatever the nutritious need or reason is behind it I tend to only clean up if she is having another pup and leaves that one. I do watch to make sure the cord is cut right. It seems a bit crude at first, but my females seem to have it figured out.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Some have diarrhea and some don't. Endosorb tabs work well if you have diarrhea if they can't hold it. I get my girls eating right away if they want. They haven't been eating for at least a day.


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## Christine Maddox (Mar 9, 2009)

Swack said:


> You may think polmaise was just a drive-by poster, but I think I know what he was saying. A vet who claims there is no real nutritional value in placentas doesn't understand canine reproduction IMHO. Wild canines eating the placentas might help hide the birth from predators as mwk56 suggests, but I think it was primarily for the nutritive value. A new canine momma isn't likely to leave her new brood to go hunting for at least a few days. The nutrient packed placentas help to tide her over while she recovers from parturition and cares for her neonates.
> 
> I believe the problem with post-partum diarrhea isn't due to a bitch eating the placentas, but due to an over anxious caretaker overfeeding her right after she whelps. I suggest you allow her to eat all of the placentas she wishes, insure she doesn't chew too closely to the puppies belly (I hold each puppy in my hand with the umbilical cord between my fingers so mama can't get any closer than a finger width), and take it easy with the first few meals after whelping. I don't allow mama any food until she passes a black gooey stool or two that is the remnants of the placentas.
> 
> ...


I agree also. I have been told that the bitch needs to eat 3-4 placentas to stimulate milk production too. I try to take anymore than that away from the dam (especially on huge litters). These are domestic dogs and there is no need for them to leave the litter to go hunting for food; so, there is no need for them to fill up on too many. Hopefully the whelper will be providing the proper supplements to her diet to help maintain all the nutrients required to nurse a litter and sustain a healthy mom.


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

Christine Maddox said:


> I agree also. I have been told that the bitch needs to eat 3-4 placentas to stimulate milk production too. I try to take anymore than that away from the dam (especially on huge litters). These are domestic dogs and there is no need for them to leave the litter to go hunting for food; so, there is no need for them to fill up on too many. Hopefully the whelper will be providing the proper supplements to her diet to help maintain all the nutrients required to nurse a litter and sustain a healthy mom.


Christine,

Thanks for the vote of confidence from you and jnelson as well. 

I understand that our domestic dogs don't need to leave the litter to hunt for food. I was using the example of wild canine habits to illustrate the value of the nourishment that the placentas and fetal membranes represent. Don't discount the ways of wild canines as being unnecessary or even detrimental for our domesticated dogs; remember our dogs are 99.8% genetically identical to wolves. If eating placentas is natural and beneficial for wolves I believe it stands to reason that it would also be good for our dogs.

Here's a quote form the book "Canine Reproduction; A Breeders Guide" by Phyllis Holst, MS, DVM:

_"The bitch may be allowed to eat each afterbirth. This is normal and natural. A bit of controversy exists about whether to allow the bitch to consume the afterbirths, and if so how many. My opinion is that since eating the afterbirths is a natural thing for her to do the bitch ought to be allowed to do as she wishes. It may cause vomiting and a soft stool to be passed the following day, but this is a relatively insignificant problem. My common sense tells me that there must be a tremendous amount of nourishment in the afterbirth. Why waste it?"

_The only time I had a problem with diarrhea from a bitch post-whelping was when I fed her too much the morning after she delivered. She'll be tired and want to rest the day following delivery anyway. Again, I suggest to wait until after the gooey blackish stool or two is passed before beginning to feed the new mama dog. And ease into the amount fed for the first couple of days and monitor her stools to insure they are normally formed as you slowly increase the amount fed. The newly born puppies don't put a great burden on mama for the first week or so. By that time you should be able to ramp up the food intake to meet her needs. It's easier to avoid diarrhea in a mama dog than to fix it!

Swack


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Placenta or how many don't stimulate milk production Christine.
Water produces milk not food. Any reserves of protein should have already been gradually built up during the whelping period. What went in to the bitch will go through the pups,and she (all things being good) will give them everything she has . Licking induces suckling ,suckling induces the release of that milk.
The Placenta is of high value to the pet dog or the wild one not for any nutrition value (imo) but for a maternal one and it will be recycled . Let the dog alone ..and if it eats 1 or all 10 then that's also fine . In my experience


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> The only time I had a problem with diarrhea from a bitch post-whelping was when I fed her too much the morning after she delivered. She'll be tired and want to rest the day following delivery anyway. Again, I suggest to wait until after the gooey blackish stool or two is passed before beginning to feed the new mama dog. And ease into the amount fed for the first couple of days and monitor her stools to insure they are normally formed as you slowly increase the amount fed. The newly born puppies don't put a great burden on mama for the first week or so. By that time you should be able to ramp up the food intake to meet her needs. It's easier to avoid diarrhea in a mama dog than to fix it!


This would not work with my girls as they are hungry when they are done and you also would risk anorexia from lack of glucose and elevation of ketones. There is real worry when they won't eat if they are anorexic. First meal chicken soup or chunky canned food and get them eating and not worry about micro managing the stools. My experience from close to two hundred whelpings with my lines.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

ErinsEdge said:


> My experience from close to two hundred whelpings with my lines.


Are you a puppy farm?  .


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

polmaise said:


> Are you a puppy farm?  .


That's over half a life time and whelping for others


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## Christine Maddox (Mar 9, 2009)

Jeff...I agree with your conclusion regarding the domestic dog vs their wild counterparts. Wild canines do need to receive the nutrients and all other pro's from eating the placentas. I only meant that it is not necessary for the domestic dog to gorge on so many due to the supplements that we provide. The book you mentioned, is one of my favorites. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

Yes I do, I prefer to do it mother nature's way....


Richard


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## Christine Maddox (Mar 9, 2009)

polmaise said:


> Placenta or how many don't stimulate milk production Christine.
> Water produces milk not food. Any reserves of protein should have already been gradually built up during the whelping period. What went in to the bitch will go through the pups,and she (all things being good) will give them everything she has . Licking induces suckling ,suckling induces the release of that milk.
> The Placenta is of high value to the pet dog or the wild one not for any nutrition value (imo) but for a maternal one and it will be recycled . Let the dog alone ..and if it eats 1 or all 10 then that's also fine . In my experience


Quoted from The Labrador Retriever by Dorothy Howe. Paragraph under WATER BAG, UMBILICAL CORD, AND AFTERBIRTH. "Allow the bitch to eat the "afterbirth"; it is reputed to stimulate the milk flow within her."
Quoted from The Whelping and Rearing of Puppies by Muriel P. Lee. "Keep track of the afterbirths, and note them on your chart. Some breeders think the placenta contains hormones that aid labor and help milk production. Others think that the placentas disrupt the digestive track--and, if the mother eats five or six, they certainly will."

Guess we all have our opinions.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Christine Maddox said:


> Quoted from The Labrador Retriever by Dorothy Howe. Paragraph under WATER BAG, UMBILICAL CORD, AND AFTERBIRTH. "Allow the bitch to eat the "afterbirth"; *it is reputed *to stimulate the milk flow within her."
> Quoted from The Whelping and Rearing of Puppies by Muriel P. Lee. "Keep track of the afterbirths, and note them on your chart. Some breeders think the placenta contains hormones that aid labor and help milk production. *Others think* that the placentas disrupt the digestive track--and, if the mother eats five or six,* they certainly will*."
> 
> Guess we all have our opinions.


Quoted from ''the book that was never written'' ..'They done good so far without us' 
Author : My grandpa 
Reputedly


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## Orion Labradors (Sep 12, 2010)

The placentas contain progesterone and aids the bitch in contractions for easier natural whelping of her pups. Mother nature is way ahead of human opinion.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I believe that placentas contain OXYTOCIN and aids in contractions AND milk let down


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## IdahoLabs (Dec 21, 2011)

Interesting topic in the last two posts.... CLs on the ovary are the only source of progesterone in the dog. The placenta produces progesterone in some species but canines are not one of them. Also labor won't start in the bitch until progesterone drops below 2, so it wouldn't be helpful. Oxytocin has a very short half life and comes from the pituitary, unlikely to be found in a placenta after whelping. The books don't say what IS in the placenta, but -read several since I have a bitch whelping right now- I agree there's range of opinions from different authors!


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

IdahoLabs said:


> Interesting topic in the last two posts.... CLs on the ovary are the only source of progesterone in the dog. The placenta produces progesterone in some species but canines are not one of them. Also labor won't start in the bitch until progesterone drops below 2, so it wouldn't be helpful. Oxytocin has a very short half life and comes from the pituitary, unlikely to be found in a placenta after whelping. The books don't say what IS in the placenta, but -read several since I have a bitch whelping right now- I agree there's range of opinions from different authors!


Claire,

I agree with your assessment of the source of the hormones and the wide range of opinions from authors. After reading several books, what's your take on the topic of letting a bitch eat the placentas and fetal membranes?

Swack


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

ErinsEdge said:


> This would not work with my girls as they are hungry when they are done and you also would risk anorexia from lack of glucose and elevation of ketones. There is real worry when they won't eat if they are anorexic. First meal chicken soup or chunky canned food and get them eating and not worry about micro managing the stools. My experience from close to two hundred whelpings with my lines.


Nancy,

I won't argue with your depth of experience. Maybe I made it sound like I'm not feeding the bitch for a day or more after whelping. That's not the case. Typically in a night-time delivery my girls will go out and poop the black gooey placenta mess the next morning and I'll give about a half of her pre-delivery ration that AM. That evening I'll give her maybe 3/4 of a ration. Assuming all goes well she'll be back to a normal ration the next day. 

What I was trying to stress is that I believe it's important not to go overboard trying to gorge a new mother dog with the quality nutrition we're so eager to provide. That's a lesson I learned the hard way. If I gave the impression I'm micromanaging stool consistency I'll rephrase; I do keep close track of the ins and outs and if stools become too soft or loose I back off the feed a bit until things firm up. I've never had an anorexic mama dog, so I can't comment on that from experience. Must mean I'm not screwing up too badly.

Sometimes it's hard to describe in a brief post what you do and all of the input from the dog you use to arrive at the decisions you make. I hope this translation is more clear, although it's hard to be precise as every dog and litter may pose different nuances which need to be considered.

Swack


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## Desiree (Dec 27, 2009)

My bitch recently had 7 pups and ate 7 yummy placentas. It would have been far to upsetting to try to take them from her. So long as Mum is doing a great job, I just leave her alone!


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Jeff, I just wanted to make sure others wouldn't misconstrue what you said as I did. The second explanation is better. I used to withhold food and now I give them a choice and most want the food. The placentas and the change in intake can affect some stomachs more than others. Like I said new mothers here get chicken soup for the first few days with some kibble. I do not like them not eating,

As far as the nutrition of the placentas, there is some iron but I could not find much else. The _placenta _produces progesterone and estrogen but both drop dramatically at birth. I let them have some but the minute they start gagging I take them away. The single worst thing is them heaving them all up in the box on top of puppies. Sometimes new mothers will really be into it and then can't take all of them. I think it does aid in mothering and I don't like to intervene more than I have to. 

I will ask my Repro vet, Dr Marty Greer, since she came out with a new reference book. I saw it at the clinic last week and it was full of pictures and 476 pages long. It might be a good addition to every Breeder's library. https://www.crcpress.com/Canine-Reproduction-and-Neonatology/Greer/9781591610410. This is 20% off and free shipping. Amazon is out already so I deceided to grab one.


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## IdahoLabs (Dec 21, 2011)

So speaking of differing opinions...

Manual of Small Animal Reproduction and Neonatology - "Following ovulation and the formation of the corpora lutea, there is little difference in progesterone concentration between pregnant and non-pregnant bitches." And, "Progesterone is the principle hormone of pregnancy, and is produced throughout gestation by the corpora lutea."

Small Animal Theriogenology - "In the bitch the ovary is the sole source of progesterone, which is necessary for pregnancy maintenance."

Small Animal Pediatrics - "Hormonal diagnosis of pregnancy varies with species. In the bitch, progesterone elevations are not different whether a bitch is or is not pregnant."

...which again argues for the placenta not participating in progesterone production.

Factors affecting progesterone production... (Animal Reproduction Sci article) - "In the bitch, the corpus luteum (CL) is the unique source of circulating progesterone during the oestrous cycle and pregnancy and has the peculiarity to show an apparently equivalent functionality in pregnant and nonpregnant animals"

All that said, the placenta does produce estrogen and release prostaglandins. Potentially PGF has a long enough half life to be present in the placenta after whelping; whether it can be absorbed through the GI tract and then act on the uterus, however...

And of course, nursing simulates oxytocin release which acts on the estrogen-influenced uterus to strengthen/stimulate contractions. I'm much more interested in benefits of this aspect of parturition.

FWIW.



ETA- I know there's a lot of $5 words in this post  - I'm happy to rephrase it if needed - just ask!


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## IdahoLabs (Dec 21, 2011)

Swack-

I'm not seeing an obvious _hormonal_ benefit to eating placentas (beyond possible fetal/maternal bonding). However placentas _are_ highly vascularized tissue which indicates they'd provide some level of nutrition to a carnivore. Let's not overthink this!

My thoughts: if the bitch wants to eat them and gets them before I do (deliberate or accidental action on my part), she's welcome to it. I think it's gross, but I'll let her eat it. Obviously at some point an owner needs to weigh the risks of diarrhea (which results in loss of fluid and nutrition) against the benefits of minimal interference (depending on the bitch's temperament/owner preference/puppy value) and potential nutrition while whelping.

Interesting topic, obviously some strong opinions but it's not a hill I'm willing to battle and die on.  ;-)

My female whelped 10 pups yesterday and ate 6 placentas.


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

ErinsEdge said:


> Jeff, I just wanted to make sure others wouldn't misconstrue what you said as I did. The second explanation is better. I used to withhold food and now I give them a choice and most want the food. The placentas and the change in intake can affect some stomachs more than others. Like I said new mothers here get chicken soup for the first few days with some kibble. I do not like them not eating,
> 
> As far as the nutrition of the placentas, there is some iron but I could not find much else. The _placenta _produces progesterone and estrogen but both drop dramatically at birth. I let them have some but the minute they start gagging I take them away. The single worst thing is them heaving them all up in the box on top of puppies. Sometimes new mothers will really be into it and then can't take all of them. I think it does aid in mothering and I don't like to intervene more than I have to.
> 
> I will ask my Repro vet, Dr Marty Greer, since she came out with a new reference book. I saw it at the clinic last week and it was full of pictures and 476 pages long. It might be a good addition to every Breeder's library. https://www.crcpress.com/Canine-Reproduction-and-Neonatology/Greer/9781591610410. This is 20% off and free shipping. Amazon is out already so I deceided to grab one.


Nancy,

I understand how you could have misunderstood what I said and I'm glad I was able to state it in a way that made more sense. I've never had a mother dog heave a belly full of goo onto a new litter of puppies. I can see how that would be a major mess! When that happens is the mama inclined to help with the clean-up? 

I've had new mothers who weren't inclined to eat the first placenta or even to help with cleaning up the first puppy. However, I think every one of them has changed their minds when the second pup arrives. I think there must be some hormonal change, perhaps from the release of oxytocin from the first pup nursing, that kicks in the maternal instincts.

Thanks for sharing the link to the new reference book. Looks like it's packed with good information!

Swack


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> I've never had a mother dog heave a belly full of goo onto a new litter of puppies. I can see how that would be a major mess! When that happens is the mama inclined to help with the clean-up?


I only had one new Mom do that and she pretty much left the box and said they're yours. The whole thing gagged her. I coaxed her back in and rubbed the puppies with butter and as she started licking them the maternal hormones kicked in and she was fine, and fine after that in subsequent whelpings. However, I said that to illustrate if they start gagging, take the placentas away from them.


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## Swack (Nov 23, 2011)

IdahoLabs said:


> Swack-
> 
> I'm not seeing an obvious _hormonal_ benefit to eating placentas (beyond possible fetal/maternal bonding). However placentas _are_ highly vascularized tissue which indicates they'd provide some level of nutrition to a carnivore. Let's not overthink this!
> 
> ...


Claire,

Thanks for the excellent quotes from the texts you cited. They help to set us straight on the facts. I wasn't of the opinion there were hormonal benefits to the bitch from ingesting the placentas; just that they must be an excellent source of nutrition, not only iron as Nancy states, but also I'm sure they must be packed with protein. 

Don't misinterpret my zeal for allowing mama dog to eat them, as is natural for her to do, as meaning that I think it's imperative to her health and to the health and delivery of the puppies. I just think it's a good thing for her to do and I'd rather not mess with nature. Sometimes I get the impression we educated humans think we know what's better for our dogs than thousands of years of genetic selection does!

Congratulations on the new litter of puppies! Sounds like you've got a busy time ahead of you!

Swack


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

This threads making me hungry.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

This thread has too big a yech factor for me to read...


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## IdahoLabs (Dec 21, 2011)

Swack said:


> I just think it's a good thing for her to do and I'd rather not mess with nature. Sometimes I get the impression we educated humans think we know what's better for our dogs than thousands of years of genetic selection does!
> 
> Congratulations on the new litter of puppies! Sounds like you've got a busy time ahead of you!
> 
> Swack


It's going to be much busier than I anticipated, lol. 

I agree with the rest of your post. I'm obviously in favor of education, but try not to underestimate anyone's experience, or the healing abilities of nature. Been there, done that, crow is best eaten fresh!


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## rahtahdah (Oct 5, 2016)

I can't remember where or when I heard/read this but I believe it makes sense. The placenta contains hormones and antibodies that the bitch needs and in humans it will signal to stop bleeding to prevent hemorrhaging and prevent postpartum is called a lotus delivery or something close to that, so it probably isn't just a survival wild instinct... It is probably a mothering instinct. I would agree with the person that said 3-4 is enough... and I have never had a litter of pups, my first is due next week and I have never consumed my babies placenta so I can't vouch for that either lol... it just seems that it makes sense that it may help something more than it could hurt...


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