# Which black lab studs whould you most want a pup from?



## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

I’m considering adding a new pup to the household this year. Looking for a do-anything, tractable temperament for hunting, hunt tests and maybe trialing if he shows the aptitude. After several cursory searches there seem to be quite a few really nice litters out there. While I’m familiar with many of these sires and their accomplishments I have never actually met most of them much less seen them run. I realize that the bitch lines have much to do with this equation but all things being equal who would you get most excited to get a pup out of? Are there some you would avoid???? You can PM me on this if you’re more comfortable. Not trying to start any friction. Lots of big names out there, Mickey, Flex, Tubbs, Grady etc. Thanks for your thoughts!!!


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

I have one by Nick if Time Lone Ranger I like. She was a handful but a nice dog who is retired now. I also have a Grady son I like a lot. Lots of go, decent marker, and a great personality. He is also a handful, but a lot of that came from his mother. Grady has been bred to many different bitches and produced loads of good HT and FT dogs.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Not many litters sired by him anymore but my favorite sire by far is COSMO!!!!!! I have trained approx. 8 Cosmo sired pups from different bitches and love them all. Have 5 of them here now. I think my favorite bitch line of Cosmo sired pups has been Fen Wizard bitches.
Probably wont find a Cosmo litter right now but I just like everything about Cosmo pups.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

My often repeated advice select the dam first


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

EdA said:


> My often repeated advice select the dam first


I’ve heard this before actually. So if you picked out the perfect dam and could pair her with any sire who would be your top 2-3 choices?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

1gunner said:


> I’ve heard this before actually. So if you picked out the perfect dam and could pair her with any sire who would be your top 2-3 choices?


In no particular order
Lanes Let’s Get Ready to Rumble
Road Warriors Dieter Brock
Seaside’s Gorgeous George


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I have two Ali boys that I love love love


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

I want a strong bitch line. I don't know the field lines well, but in other threads I know Dr Ed has mentioned good field bitch lines bred to dogs with good bitch lines. I think it's actually a fairly recent thread. We have that in our lines. I don't think, from looking at pedigrees on field stuff, that it's paid as much attention to, but the girls are it. Look for that thread.

Sue


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Bobby Lane 601-248-5773 Ali’s owner.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Swift River no problem has been the Sire of quite a few good pups. Kenny had a bunch of finalists in the National Derby Championship last year and a bunch of others that have made the list over the years. Seems to throw pups with above average marking ability. -Paul


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I have a 14 mo old NAFC Mully daughter that I really like. She is an excellent marking dog and has been since she started field marks... very fast, and very biddable. Hope to have her in some derbies this fall - water training permitting.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

I'd like to see a few more pups by Fordland's Bored out Ford, I really hope some far-sighted people picked up the last of those straws. If we are just saying fantasy black studs, which nothing is left. Running with the Devil, Harley, Abe, Freehavens muscles. Lines I continue to look for.  Not a black stud but anything out of a Nitro Yellowstones Tnt's Explosion-marathon man I'd be interested in, we will forgive that most are an off color .


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## Oz1 (Dec 9, 2011)

I have a 3yo Kenny (Swift Rivers No Problem) pup. Is a great dog, super drive and very biddable, got his MH at 2years. I also like the looks of Foxx (Bayou Teche Swing for the Fence) puppies. They seem to be pretty successful dogs.


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

FC/AFC Tucked Away At Rivers Edge. I have bred to him twice and a pup from first litter just one the first derby he ran. Mine and one other I know of will be running soon. I believe one from another litter just placed in an open and Am same weekend.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Steve Shaver said:


> Not many litters sired by him anymore but my favorite sire by far is COSMO!!!!!! I have trained approx. 8 Cosmo sired pups from different bitches and love them all. Have 5 of them here now. I think my favorite bitch line of Cosmo sired pups has been Fen Wizard bitches.
> Probably wont find a Cosmo litter right now but I just like everything about Cosmo pups.


Cosmo bred to my Stepper bitch HRCH-Tanks ALOT for the DANCE-MH all day!!!
LOTS of GO with TONS of SMARTS!!!

My girl is gone now, so I'm wanting an FC/AFC-Tucker or FC/AFC-Diets pup out of a proven producer. "coin flip"


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

I "picked" the bitch first and am planning for a pup in the Fall

NAFC-FC Mulligan Off the Rainy T X Shohola Caoimhe (FC-AFC Trumarc’s Hollandaise X Sonshines Dottie West)

I suppose I'm "too old" for this, but can't resist...


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

Appreciate all of the responses! Great info here! Please keep it coming.


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## SD Lab (Mar 14, 2003)

Cosmo, Pike of Castlebay


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

Are there even any Cosmo straws left?????


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## rrwilly (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh ya and I hope there will be for years to come I want a Cosmo daughter someday!


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

rrwilly said:


> Oh ya and I hope there will be for years to come I want a Cosmo daughter someday!


Who is the contact for Cosmo straws????


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## rrwilly (Jul 22, 2009)

Cathie Olson l’ll look for her info and PM you


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## Ironwood (Sep 25, 2007)

tractable temperament for hunting, hunt tests and maybe trialing if he shows the aptitude. You have received some good advice. Given what you stated in your original post you should be looking a some local hunting dogs and spending some time with the owners and see how their dogs are to live with and hunt with. You listed some high profile dogs as stud dogs. Ed Aycock gave sound advice. Do your research and spend time in the company of the owners and their female dogs be it hunting dogs or hunt test dogs. 
In the end you will come away more knowledgeable. If you are not a member of some organized retriever club then join such a body. Years of experience will be offered up. It can only do you good.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

So what is it about Cosmo pups that y'all like? You hear a lot of conflicting stories about Cosmo himself. 

I have 1.5 year old NFC Willie pup out of a MH female who out of Shaq x CFC QAA female. 

Her extreme desire to please and biddability is what I love so much about her. She's lightening fast with a huge motor and retrieving drive. 

It's very early and there are a lot of hoops to jump through but I know I want a pup out of her if everything pans out as far as health and titles. 

My concern with Cosmo would be losing that trainability. My perception is just based on what I've heard and read. 

So what is it about Cosmo pups that make you want a pup by him?


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## mja9346 (Jul 7, 2011)

I have a dog out of Ali and couldn’t be happier with him . He is two now . Was a bit of a handful at first . Great marker , a bit on the soft side but takes corrections well . Always wants to please and will work with you . He is a big dog (85 lbs) but a great looking dog . He is on my avatar . Yes the female has a big part in what you will end up with so do your homework there as well . Pros train many pups out of the same studs over the years and most of them pups from different bitches . The pro I sent my Dog to was very high on Ali pups .


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Bryan Parks said:


> So what is it about Cosmo pups that y'all like? You hear a lot of conflicting stories about Cosmo himself.
> 
> I have 1.5 year old NFC Willie pup out of a MH female who out of Shaq x CFC QAA female.
> 
> ...





I have heard the Cosmo stories too and was afraid of his reputation until I owned one. I have worked with Cosmo offspring from 3 different bitch lines and all have similar traits which I believe to be a testament to his ability to pass on his talent. All pups are very good looking very affectionate and willing to work with you as a team. Definitely high powered but still team players. They are also very intelligent which I believe to be a good dogs strongest trait. Mine also have a very good off switch when in the house and are great at just being dogs when they are not working. This is a picture of the most recent ones I have worked with on their first birthday. Thought it may be tough to get them all to sit still and pose with their hats on but it was a piece of cake. I raised and trained all 4 starting at 4 months old. They are approx. 17 months old now and will be running their first derby this weekend. I must admit they could be trouble if not brought up right but if you keep a handle on them they are all awesome dogs both in the field and at home. If I see a Cosmo litter advertised it gets my attention.


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## A team (Jun 30, 2011)

FC AFC B Bumble , 

I've had 4 pups out of Stinger 3 were fantastic , quick learners , lots of style and marking talent. 

I bred my QA2 bitch Grady Bitch) to Stinger last year and the pups are moving along nicely and they're all with different pros. 

I've also had good success with FC AFC Trus Little Cruiser , good looking pups , great water attitude , can be a bit complicated.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Bryan Parks said:


> So what is it about Cosmo pups that y'all like? You hear a lot of conflicting stories about Cosmo himself.
> 
> I have 1.5 year old NFC Willie pup out of a MH female who out of Shaq x CFC QAA female.
> 
> ...


Trained two Cosmo pups out of my Stepper daughter and both were team players, tractable and smart...with TONS OF GO!!!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Steve Shaver said:


> I have heard the Cosmo stories too and was afraid of his reputation until I owned one. I have worked with Cosmo offspring from 3 different bitch lines and all have similar traits which I believe to be a testament to his ability to pass on his talent. All pups are very good looking very affectionate and willing to work with you as a team. Definitely high powered but still team players. They are also very intelligent which I believe to be a good dogs strongest trait. Mine also have a very good off switch when in the house and are great at just being dogs when they are not working. This is a picture of the most recent ones I have worked with on their first birthday. Thought it may be tough to get them all to sit still and pose with their hats on but it was a piece of cake. I raised and trained all 4 starting at 4 months old. They are approx. 17 months old now and will be running their first derby this weekend. I must admit they could be trouble if not brought up right but if you keep a handle on them they are all awesome dogs both in the field and at home. If I see a Cosmo litter advertised it gets my attention.
> View attachment 78082


I am personally not a Cosmo as a sire fan but understand why some are but what amazes me the most, given the number of litters he has sired in 25 years, is that there is still semen available. He must have been collected several times weekly over a long period of time. I judged him in one of his first Derbys which he won in the spring 1992.
FC-AFC Dare to Dream DOB 3/12/1991


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

Dr Ed, I’m curious what it is about Ali, a Cosmo son, that you like that is different from what Cosmo has produced.
Thanks for your insight.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Matt McKenzie said:


> Dr Ed, I’m curious what it is about Ali, a Cosmo son, that you like that is different from what Cosmo has produced.
> Thanks for your insight.


My direct contact with Cosmo offspring is limited to Norman but having been an observer I view his progeny, even the really talented ones, to have a high potential for line manner issues which cannot always be explained away as trainer incompetence. My experience with Ali offspring is much more extensive and admittedly from the same bitch line. I find them compliant on line, not prone to issues, but equally enthusiastic retrievers and generally above average markers. The number of titled Cosmo offspring (54) is impressive but given the number of litters sired over 25 years his productivity pales in comparison to Honcho 76, Cody 63, and Percy 46 who were competitors for breedings and each of them met every female they were bred to. The guys at Delta airfreight at DFW and I were on a first name basis for a few years.


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

EdA said:


> My direct contact with Cosmo offspring is limited to Norman but having been an observer I view his progeny, even the really talented ones, to have a high potential for line manner issues which cannot always be explained away as trainer incompetence. My experience with Ali offspring is much more extensive and admittedly from the same bitch line. I find them compliant on line, not prone to issues, but equally enthusiastic retrievers and generally above average markers. The number of titled Cosmo offspring (54) is impressive but given the number of litters sired over 25 years his productivity pales in comparison to Honcho 76, Cody 63, and Percy 46 who were competitors for breedings and each of them met every female they were bred to. The guys at Delta airfreight at DFW and I were on a first name basis for a few years.


I’ve had numerous folks reach out to me after I posted this thread and the most common name I’ve heard is Ali! I was already familiar with him and checked out his impressivestats and achievements but what was he like day to day? Why was he special? Again, I’m looking for an intelligent, bomb-proof temperament that can go to work with me during the week and hunt/train hard when the time comes. Very interested in this guy!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

1gunner said:


> I’ve had numerous folks reach out to me after I posted this thread and the most common name I’ve heard is Ali! I was already familiar with him and checked out his impressivestats and achievements but what was he like day to day? Why was he special? Again, I’m looking for an intelligent, bomb-proof temperament that can go to work with me during the week and hunt/train hard when the time comes. Very interested in this guy!


Bobby Lane, Mark Smith, and Ryan Brasseu could tell you about day to day but for you is that relevant? You are seeking a sire so ask those questions about his progeny, that is relevant.


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

EdA said:


> Bobby Lane, Mark Smith, and Ryan Brasseu could tell you about day to day but for you is that relevant? You are seeking a sire so ask those questions about his progeny, that is relevant.


I had an Ali littermate that was as talented as any dog I’ve ever seen but had that loose wire and would glaze over and freezing washed him out at 51/2 . I currently have an Ali/Crystal male who is honest, great marker, and as tractable as you could hope for , I would trust a oranges for oranges breeding with Ali over a Cosmo breeding, I think Ali gives you as much of the good with less chance of the bad.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Carole Robison who lives near Anderson TX has had considerable success breeding her bitches to Ali


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## Kajun Kamakazi (May 17, 2011)

1gunner said:


> I’ve had numerous folks reach out to me after I posted this thread and the most common name I’ve heard is Ali! I was already familiar with him and checked out his impressivestats and achievements but what was he like day to day? Why was he special? Again, I’m looking for an intelligent, bomb-proof temperament that can go to work with me during the week and hunt/train hard when the time comes. Very interested in this guy!


I’ve watched, trained with, and competed against Bobby and Ali a bit. He’s hands down the most impressive animal I’ve ever been around. Full stop. Bar none. I’m not usually the exaggerative type, but the things I’ve seen that dog do, truly amazed me.

I participated at a Pat Burns workshop a few years ago and I remember we were thoroughly getting our asses whipped. My dog was still young but some of the others were older and some were titled, one went on to 100+ AA points. Needless to say, there was no shortage of talent. We were being put through the ringer, the dogs screwed up every day, multiple times a day and had plenty of opportunities for correction. All except Bobby and Ali; they hammered everything! That dog is the closest thing to perfection I’ve ever seen. 

One day Ryan B setup a water blind, he took Ali off the truck first and smoked it. He had to abandon it after a few dogs before he “ruined the rest of the truck.” The WB was virtually impossible, but nothing is impossible with Ali. 

I can’t say enough about him. I try to give him a pat on the head every time I see him.


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## Gunners Up (Jul 29, 2004)

Kajun Kamakazi said:


> I’ve watched, trained with, and competed against Bobby and Ali a bit. He’s hands down the most impressive animal I’ve ever been around. Full stop. Bar none. I’m not usually the exaggerative type, but the things I’ve seen that dog do, truly amazed me.
> 
> I participated at a Pat Burns workshop a few years ago and I remember we were thoroughly getting our asses whipped. My dog was still young but some of the others were older and some were titled, one went on to 100+ AA points. Needless to say, there was no shortage of talent. We were being put through the ringer, the dogs screwed up every day, multiple times a day and had plenty of opportunities for correction. All except Bobby and Ali; they hammered everything! That dog is the closest thing to perfection I’ve ever seen.
> 
> ...


I've seen Ali called back at trials he wasn't even entered in............


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

Gunners Up said:


> Kajun Kamakazi said:
> 
> 
> > I’ve watched, trained with, and competed against Bobby and Ali a bit. He’s hands down the most impressive animal I’ve ever been around. Full stop. Bar none. I’m not usually the exaggerative type, but the things I’ve seen that dog do, truly amazed me.
> ...


Haha!!.......


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

Gunners Up said:


> I've seen Ali called back at trials he wasn't even entered in............


and he bred 2 bitches in between....


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

Ken Barton said:


> and he bred 2 bitches in between....


Thats some funny ****!!! Does anyone have contact info for Ali’s owner?


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

1gunner said:


> Thats some funny ****!!! Does anyone have contact info for Ali’s owner?


Mark Sehon posted that on the 1st page of this thread.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

It has been 7 years since I bought a pup. I did a lot of research and I'm very happy with Rowdy. He was sired by a well known stud and the dam had great results in SRS, HT, derby, etc. These pups were very expensive for the time. I suspect the price has gone up quite a bit since 2012.
The OP doesn't show a location but you could visit a local HT pro, with a good reputation, and find a puppy that will meet you needs. We did this for my son. He got a puppy from a litter sired and raised by Rody Best. The puppy doesn't have the pedigree of some that are mentioned here. It was a repeat breeding with the previous litter showing great results. But he is the right puppy for my son and within his budget.


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## LGH (Oct 20, 2013)

I've owned a Cosmo-Grady bitch and a Ali-Watermarks bitch....Still own the Ali pup, young and gets better every day. Sold the cosmo dog at 2


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Ah, but was it Cosmo or Grady that contributed the undesirable traits? And was it Ali or Boss that added the right stuff? Or maybe one breeding was a good nick and not the other? Makes my head whirl.


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## LGH (Oct 20, 2013)

2tall said:


> Ah, but was it Cosmo or Grady that contributed the undesirable traits? And was it Ali or Boss that added the right stuff? Or maybe one breeding was a good nick and not the other? Makes my head whirl.


I have my personal thoughts on that but I'm going to keep them personal


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

I am looking for for a dog that goes back "Tanks a lot" from Candle wood. If any one has information please contact me. 

I have cloy's mom and dads ped. If you wish.

Keith


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## TCFarmer (Feb 5, 2008)

I'd like to have a Carbon puppy.


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## Jared McComis (Aug 12, 2013)

Would pay a hefty price for a female chopper pup!


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

Jared McComis said:


> Would pay a hefty price for a female chopper pup!


Me too! And a male chopper pup for the matter. 

Here is a question for everyone. Is Esprit Out of the Woods (Tiger) the most successful producer of FC's that did not have his FC title?


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

I'm curious if anyone knows what Juice has thrown out there.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> Me too! And a male chopper pup for the matter.
> Is Esprit Out of the Woods (Tiger) the most successful producer of FC's that did not have his FC title?


Super Powder had 39 according to my notes


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

ErinsEdge said:


> Super Powder had 39 according to my notes


And was dysplastic...


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## kftopgun (Mar 24, 2009)

Truthseeker please email me at [email protected] I may have what you are looking for.


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## Aaron Adame (Aug 21, 2017)

Jared McComis said:


> Would pay a hefty price for a female chopper pup!





birddogn_tc said:


> Jared McComis said:
> 
> 
> > Would pay a hefty price for a female chopper pup!
> ...


Absolutely that would be at the top of my list but never going to happen. The young female I have out of a Chopper bitch makes me wonder if that’s not just as good though? Granted I do see a few traits carried over from the sire she strongly takes after her dams side. I guess it depends on your opinion of how important the dam is in a breeding and if you believe in the maternal-grandsire effect. Personally I think the dam is more important and after her I would gamble on any pup out of a Chopper bitch to a decent sire.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

truthseeker said:


> I am looking for for a dog that goes back "Tanks a lot" from Candle wood. If any one has information please contact me.
> 
> I have cloy's mom and dads ped. If you wish.
> 
> Keith


http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigreedetailed.asp?DogNo=114089
Her paternal great grandmother AFC Candlewoods Ms Costalot is a Lottie daughter. Scally was recently bred to NAFC-FC Texas Troubadour.


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## Brian Welch (Jan 30, 2013)

I really like my 9 month old pup out of FC Deets. Tons and tons of go. We could be finished with big T and swim by but being a teacher I wait for the summer months to really fine tune these drills. Great marker as well. Again, tons of go so we work more on line manners than anything else.


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## LabLover45 (Feb 17, 2011)

what about fen wizard or emmitt as stud dogs. would like to have a pup out of either in the future


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

LabLover45 said:


> what about fen wizard or emmitt as stud dogs. would like to have a pup out of either in the future


I know a couple 1 year old Emmitt litter mates that have it all. The female in particular is *very* high drive and an excellent marker.
Not sure of the bitch line other than it must be stellar or the pups wouldn't have been bought.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

You must not have been to the boat dock during duck season. Orange ribbons are great.


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## yukonriverriley (Aug 15, 2007)

NFC Mickey. I've got a pup out of his littermate by CJ's Mister T and have met a pup of his out of another female. All very sweet dogs, exceptionally smart, excellent markers, and eager to please. Long healthy lines there too, no cruciate history that I'm aware of, which is getting tougher and tougher to find in the top stud dogs. We have 4 little Mickey's out of our FC AFC girl that were just born Tuesday. Can't wait to start training!


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Wayne Nutt said:


> You must not have been to the boat dock during duck season. Orange ribbons are great.


Not sure what it has to with Black Lab studs but I said "Orange ribbons are great" and spend many days on the river or in the field.








Best of luck to you and your pups in all seasons be it tests, trials or fowl.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

I got a text last night from Lance Flowers stating he just purchased the last Chopper straw. 

Doesn't know for certain who he's going to use it on.


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## John Fialho (Mar 31, 2019)

Look up ‘Baysides Rhythm and Blues’ MH, he is an Awesome Master Hunter and is now working on his National Master Hunter Title. He has 35 Champion Titles in the last 5 generations of pedigree and some of his pups are now trial dogs and Hunters. My Lab is a Titled Junior Hunter I had her bred to him and she had 10 healthy pups and no Runts. Both Dogs have Great Genetics that will pass to pups.These will be Great Hunters or Trial Dogs. He is Lean, Muscled good looking Male of 85lbs, check him out. He is now out of Bayside Retrievers and now owned by The new owners of Hightest.


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

So much great info on this thread. Thank you all!!!!!


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

> I'd like to see a few more pups by Fordland's Bored out Ford, I really hope some far-sighted people picked up the last of those straws.


I have some Ford straws, and will use them well I assure you. Last litter I bred out of Ford produced 3 field champions and 5 other QAA dogs, several with pts.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Super Powder had 39 according to my notes


Keith Stroyan said:


> And was dysplastic...


And what about ED (elbow dysplasia, not the other one)? No one seems to care about that even though it can be career ending


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Mike W. said:


> I have some Ford straws, and will use them well I assure you. Last litter I bred out of Ford produced 3 field champions and 5 other QAA dogs, several with pts.


I was very very tempted when the last straws came up for sale, but the 5k price tag, was too rich for me . Added to most likely I would have to wait for the right girl-match to come around, and be paying for storage for extended period of time. It will be fun to watch for a couple of those litters to come out of the deep freeze as the years go by.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

$5k really? Wow, ok then. I bought my from Sam couple years before he passed. Cost aside, Ford is a very prepotent sire....throws very good markers and most are fire breathers.


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## saltgrass (Sep 22, 2008)

Mike W. said:


> $5k really? Wow, ok then. I bought my from Sam couple years before he passed. Cost aside, Ford is a very prepotent sire....throws very good markers and most are fire breathers.



A trainer and his client did a lean Mac breeding last yr straw was $5K or $6K


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

With no more Ford, would his littermate Keilah's Chopper son Juice be a good choice? Hopefully he's producing. I asked early but no one chimed in.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Mike W. Please see PM. Breck, I too would be very interested in a Juice match-up if Ford dreams don’t pan out. Include me in the loop if you hear more.


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## JamesTannery (Jul 29, 2006)

My eye is on an up and comer, Hockley Creek Switch Hitter. "Mickey"


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

JamesTannery said:


> My eye is on an up and comer, Hockley Creek Switch Hitter. "Mickey"


Not sure it’s doing him justice to call him an “up and comer” anymore as the #1 AA dog in the country at the moment and over 110 AA pts. But still relatively young and a beast none the less.


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## rrwilly (Jul 22, 2009)

A trainer and his client did a lean Mac breeding last yr straw was $5K or $6K


Al who owns Lean Macs semen must have also gotten a cut on the sale of the puppies. When I bought some Prize semen from him I asked how much it would be to buy a little frozen Lean Mac and he said he’s done it a couple different ways but to flat out buy some it was considerably more than $5,000.00


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## IdahoLabs (Dec 21, 2011)

Rumor I heard was that Juice is sterile. I asked around a couple years ago. Connie Cleveland has an OTCH AFC son that is available.


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## Windjammer (May 29, 2014)

I'm surprised there wasn't a lot of talk about of Grady (except post #2) or Tubb. They have proven track records as sires, and have thrown some wonderful dogs that have succeeded in Field Trials and Hunt Tests.


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

I tried to contact Martha Russel over the weekend about a breeding with Tubb's and did not get a returned call. It has been harder then I thought to get a proven dog. Lucky that I started early.

Keith


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## tcook (Feb 28, 2014)

1gunner said:


> I’m considering adding a new pup to the household this year. Looking for a do-anything, tractable temperament for hunting, hunt tests and maybe trialing if he shows the aptitude. After several cursory searches there seem to be quite a few really nice litters out there. While I’m familiar with many of these sires and their accomplishments I have never actually met most of them much less seen them run. I realize that the bitch lines have much to do with this equation but all things being equal who would you get most excited to get a pup out of? Are there some you would avoid???? You can PM me on this if you’re more comfortable. Not trying to start any friction. Lots of big names out there, Mickey, Flex, Tubbs, Grady etc. Thanks for your thoughts!!!


Clooney would be my pick. Like the top and bottom, and look forward to seeing great things from this young dog!


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## Vance_kaz (Nov 3, 2018)

fc afc flawless execution. flex


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

I wasn't aware but got a message Juice is now sterile. He wasn't earlier in life so there may be straws if Mark or prev owner collected him.


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## Big Chief (Feb 4, 2018)

I know this may seem like a stupid question to you salty old dogs, but this newbie would sure like to know the registered name for this Ali you speak of (as well as others), as opposed to the call name. Thanks in advance.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

FC-AFC Lanes Lets Get Ready to Rumble but doesn’t necessitate being old


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## Ktyler2577 (Nov 30, 2018)

EdA said:


> FC-AFC Lanes Lets Get Ready to Rumble but doesn’t necessitate being old


"Experienced" right Mr Ed?


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## Tom O (Jan 22, 2015)

*Black Lab Studs*

Consider FC AFC Doctor Cabernet Just in Case (Justi x Tubby). Doc is clear on all genetic tests and hips- EX. Litter on ground with Gossip (Avery x Slider) this past Friday- 9 pups/ 7 blk.-2 yel. At just 4 1/2 years old Doc has 6 All-Age Wins (3 Open/3 Amat.), 42 All-Age points; he had 37 Derby points & has qualified for 3 Nationals. Has 60 HRC points; completed all 4 Finished tests he entered.


1gunner said:


> I’m considering adding a new pup to the household this year. Looking for a do-anything, tractable temperament for hunting, hunt tests and maybe trialing if he shows the aptitude. After several cursory searches there seem to be quite a few really nice litters out there. While I’m familiar with many of these sires and their accomplishments I have never actually met most of them much less seen them run. I realize that the bitch lines have much to do with this equation but all things being equal who would you get most excited to get a pup out of? Are there some you would avoid???? You can PM me on this if you’re more comfortable. Not trying to start any friction. Lots of big names out there, Mickey, Flex, Tubbs, Grady etc. Thanks for your thoughts!!!


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## Jared McComis (Aug 12, 2013)

Looking back at this thread I am surprised Holland nor Shaq showed up on the list. No idea of availability, might be the reason. I do see some of their progeny showed up.


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Jared McComis said:


> Looking back at this thread I am surprised Holland nor Shaq showed up on the list. No idea of availability, might be the reason. I do see some of their progeny showed up.


I'm pretty sure Holland has gone sterile. Dr. Aycock can confirm/refute. Agree though, the dogs I've seen he has sired are very nice.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

bamajeff said:


> I'm pretty sure Holland has gone sterile. Dr. Aycock can confirm/refute. Agree though, the dogs I've seen he has sired are very nice.


Not sterile but probably sub fertile, people quit calling so I quit caring. I have some frozen but most are skeptical of fertility so it will probably never be used. My regret is that I did not collect him when he was two and I have but one of his progeny.


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

EdA said:


> Not sterile but probably sub fertile, people quit calling so I quit caring. I have some frozen but most are skeptical of fertility so it will probably never be used. My regret is that I did not collect him when he was two and I have but one of his progeny.


I would regret that as well. His pups are extremely nice. Have you thought of purchasing a bitch and using some of your frozen to try to get a litter? You certainly wouldn't have any trouble locating buyers.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

bamajeff said:


> I would regret that as well. His pups are extremely nice. Have you thought of purchasing a bitch and using some of your frozen to try to get a litter? You certainly wouldn't have any trouble locating buyers.


At this time in my life I have no incentive to be involved with that. I have a puppy coming from a Holland daughter which is sufficient to satiate my desire to have generation 8 post Honcho.


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## saltgrass (Sep 22, 2008)

Wan tr ed to breed my last female to Holland, but ended up having to put her down to soon. Dan S. Was pushing him a little after she spent 6 months with him...


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

EdA said:


> 1gunner said:
> 
> 
> > I’ve heard this before actually. So if you picked out the perfect dam and could pair her with any sire who would be your top 2-3 choices?
> ...


Curious why Deets?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Bryan Parks said:


> Curious why Deets?


He is a talented dog from a productive pedigree. I knew and liked him when he was young. He adds oomph to the equation, perhaps a little too much to Trumarc’s Number 12 who is always fun to train and the most dangerous place in the field is between Roger and a bird. Deets puppies, at least this litter, are not for the faint of heart nor or they appropriate for novice trainers.


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## cjaz (Jan 28, 2009)

EdA said:


> the most dangerous place in the field is between Roger and a bird.



I can relate to this pretty well. My girlfriend at the time was throwing marks for my 14 or 15 month old BLF. There was a bad throw, and the dog broke on the re-throw. She walked over to pick up the mark so the dog wouldn't be rewarded for the break but didn't realize how fast the dog was closing. As she bent over to pick up the bumper the dog hit her at full speed right in the jaw. It spun her around and dropped her to her knees. By time I got over there she was bleeding pretty good and had no idea what had happened. The result was a really bad concussion that affected her for months afterwards. She ended up missing a lot of work had to spend most of her time in a dark quiet room. It took so long for her to get better I started to worry she was going to have lasting damage from it. Oh, and it was a pretty awkward trip the emergency room that morning, bringing a girl in with that kind of swelling and cut to her face and telling them my dog hit her on a retrieve. She jokes about it now and will be the first to tell you "that dog will knock a b*tch out"


chris


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

JamesTannery said:


> My eye is on an up and comer, Hockley Creek Switch Hitter. "Mickey"


I just got my Mickey pup. At 7 1/2 weeks and WOW is all I can say. Already swimming like a fish in deep water, absolutely crazy to retrieve a paint roller, boisterous, bold, and fearless. Trainer friend of mine has 2 of her littermates and he says they are the best puppies he's ever seen. I know that doesn't mean anything in regards to how they can mark and will turn out, but I absolutely LOVE what I see so far.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

bamajeff said:


> Trainer friend of mine has 2 of her littermates and he says they are the best puppies he's ever seen.


Mickey is a wonderfully talented dog with a plus pedigree who has the genotype and phenotype to be a good or great sire. That being said I have heard this at least one hundred times in my years with dogs which always leads me to speculate that the person who proclaims this either has not seen many puppies or hasn’t seen many good ones.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I am quite impressed with Tubb. Not only is he a winner himself, I believe I read he has three offspring in this National. That tells me what I want to know! Best of luck with your new pup Dr. Ed.


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

EdA said:


> Mickey is a wonderfully talented dog with a plus pedigree who has the genotype and phenotype to be a good or great sire. That being said I have heard this at least one hundred times in my years with dogs which always leads me to speculate that the person who proclaims this either has not seen many puppies or hasn’t seen many good ones.


He's seen quite a few. How many 'good ones'? That's debatable. Here's the sire of some of the pups he's seen over the last few years besides these Mickey pups.

Chavez
Grady
Clooney
Slider
Boo
Juice
Foxx
Punch


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

I'll also chime in on Ali...

When you judge, there are certain dogs who, when they come to the line, that you notice and say "who the hell is that"? Ali is the one that comes first to my mind...he is a big boy, 90 lbs +, but put together perfectly. You would think it's Mufasa coming to the line, with the ground shaking under his feet. The dog kicked back gravel when he was sent for his blind...a blind!

Amazing to me how a dog of his size & strength, and one that ran that hard never had any significant injuries. Speaks to how structurally sound he was/is. A spectacular specimen.


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## Bustinwater (Aug 9, 2018)

Tiger McBunn


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Super Chief


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

My Juice at 8 years old still slings the mat backwards whether it’s a mark or blind. He’s got one speed and it’s as fast as 85 pounds can move. 



Mike W. said:


> I'll also chime in on Ali...
> 
> When you judge, there are certain dogs who, when they come to the line, that you notice and say "who the hell is that"? Ali is the one that comes first to my mind...he is a big boy, 90 lbs +, but put together perfectly. You would think it's Mufasa coming to the line, with the ground shaking under his feet. The dog kicked back gravel when he was sent for his blind...a blind!
> 
> Amazing to me how a dog of his size & strength, and one that ran that hard never had any significant injuries. Speaks to how structurally sound he was/is. A spectacular specimen.


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

I think what Dr. Ed is saying is that a lot of them look great when they are puppies. I’ve been let down by more than a couple that I thought would be the real deal when they were little. Now I just assume they will suck and am glad when I’m wrong lol. 



bamajeff said:


> He's seen quite a few. How many 'good ones'? That's debatable. Here's the sire of some of the pups he's seen over the last few years besides these Mickey pups.
> 
> Chavez
> Grady
> ...


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Justin Allen said:


> I think what Dr. Ed is saying is that a lot of them look great when they are puppies. I’ve been let down by more than a couple that I thought would be the real deal when they were little. Now I just assume they will suck and am glad when I’m wrong lol.


I gotcha. Kind of like everybody thinks their little boy's going to the NFL . I'm fully aware that most pups don't have what it takes to be an all-age dog and when I was speaking of just liking the pup, that's what I meant(purely as a puppy). Who knows if they can mark or not. That won't be found out for several more months. One encouraging thing she did last weekend is follow and focus on the 4-wheeler recently out to 300+ yds putting out the gun stations. Never took her eye off the entire way out and back. Hopefully she will be able to see, but like you said it's all a crapshoot.


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

I knew what you meant lol. She’s in good hands to have a bright future with you at the healm. 




bamajeff said:


> I gotcha. Kind of like everybody thinks their little boy's going to the NFL . I'm fully aware that most pups don't have what it takes to be an all-age dog and when I was speaking of just liking the pup, that's what I meant(purely as a puppy). Who knows if they can mark or not. That won't be found out for several more months. One encouraging thing she did last weekend is follow and focus on the 4-wheeler recently out to 300+ yds putting out the gun stations. Never took her eye off the entire way out and back. Hopefully she will be able to see, but like you said it's all a crapshoot.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2010)

Experience is correct- “Ali” did a side by side today. Still at 70 percent, still going strong. Last to breedings had 8 pups each.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

How about Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow? 

Only 36 litters listed on RR
25 FC or AFC or FC/AFC 
3 FTCH 

That's pretty amazing. 

I don't know anything about him past what I can read. 

I'd like to hear any stories, opinions or information about Shadow as a dog and stud.


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## jforqueran (Apr 12, 2015)

Bryan Parks said:


> How about Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow?
> 
> Only 36 litters listed on RR
> 25 FC or AFC or FC/AFC
> ...


He has a son running derbies now that already has 5 wins!! His name is also Shadow!


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

jforqueran said:


> Bryan Parks said:
> 
> 
> > How about Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow?
> ...


Yes, Bill Hillmann's newest project. Very impressive. Only 13 month old or so. I'll be interested to see how he progresses in AA competition.


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## Don Smith (Mar 23, 2004)

I'm kinda surprised that I don't see any comments about Flex. He was a finalist again in the National and has a great record. I understand he's a pinpoint marker. But I don't see much about his pups.


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## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

The 2018 high point derby winner was sired by Flex.


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## Gary M (Dec 5, 2008)

NFC Foxx. Genetics, looks, performance, temperament, pedigree, health, Am trained and handled, and has thrown some nice young dogs already. Paired with the right bitch, pups could be very nice!


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## 1gunner (Jan 28, 2015)

Gary M said:


> NFC Foxx. Genetics, looks, performance, temperament, pedigree, health, Am trained and handled, and has thrown some nice young dogs already. Paired with the right bitch, pups could be very nice!


Very impressive boy! What is Foxx’s temperment like as far as biddability, manners, eagerness to please etc?


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## Gary M (Dec 5, 2008)

1gunner said:


> Very impressive boy! What is Foxx’s temperment like as far as biddability, manners, eagerness to please etc?


https://www.foxxatstud.com/about#about-foxx


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

another cool thing about Foxx is that he has had advanced cardiac done. (per ofa)


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## Cooper (Jul 9, 2012)

Grady, I have trained two of them and I love their intelligence, abilities and character, not to mention that they were excellent markers, great handling dogs and easily trained.


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