# Vet med question - lactating dam w/ diarrhea



## skelso (Apr 29, 2009)

My girl whelped Tuesday. She's had diarrhea since a few days prior to whelp. Vet initially told me not to worry as it was common with pregnancy. This morning I called to tell him she still had it and is now worse. She's begun passing a lot of liquid along with the diarrhea.

His suggestion was Imodium AD - 1tab every 8 hours OR a round of Metronidazole. He offered no real prefference either way. I have both on hand.

So my question: Is one more preferred over the other for a lactating dam? If so, why?

Thanks!


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

I would do what my vet recommended.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Is she eating ok?

How much is she eating?

For the last couple days before whelping a bitch will "clean out"....then eating afterbirth and cleaning pups will give her the runs a bit too.

By 3 days +, her stool should be firming up. 

So what is she eating, how much, how much water is she drinking and does she have a temp?

WRL


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

skelso said:


> My girl whelped Tuesday. She's had diarrhea since a few days prior to whelp. Vet initially told me not to worry as it was common with pregnancy. This morning I called to tell him she still had it and is now worse. She's begun passing a lot of liquid along with the diarrhea.
> 
> His suggestion was Imodium AD - 1tab every 8 hours OR a round of Metronidazole. He offered no real prefference either way. I have both on hand.
> 
> ...


 Are you sure it was metronidazole? My vet web site shows "Metronidazole should be avoided in pregnant animals, especially in the first trimester. Some metronidazole is excreted in breast milk and it should not be used in lactating animals".

I would take a trip to the vet for a fecal to see what you are dealing with exactly..parasites, bacterial, etc.. and find out exactly what treatment should be used for a nursing dam with puppies under a week old. Any other signs like mastitis? Could just be overfeeding and if you back off the feed for 24 hours and give the immodium she could immediately improve, but I would want to know for sure with a fecal.


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## skelso (Apr 29, 2009)

WRL said:


> Is she eating ok?
> 
> How much is she eating?
> 
> ...


She's eating about 3X her normal intake so about 9 cups a day. Vet originally said to free feed after whelping but whe's a gobbler and will eat as much at one time as she can so I have been butting down 2 cups at a time several times a day.

4 weeks prior to whelp I started to transition from Blue Buffalo Fish and sweet potato Adult to Blue Buffalo chicken and brown rice puppy. By 2 weeks prior to whelp she was on 100% puppy and still is.

No temp. She's eating and drinking just fine. haven't monitored exactly how much water. The water bowl holds maybe 1/2 gallon and I have been refilling 3 - 4 times a day. Our mutt drinks from the same bowl so she's not drinking all of it but I would guess tha majority.


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## skelso (Apr 29, 2009)

Andy Carlson said:


> I would do what my vet recommended.


Thanks for the reply Andy, that's exactly what I am trying to do. Problem is Vet offered two suggestions with no real preferrence for one over the other. I have both meds on hand but thought I would reach out to see what others with more experience would / have done.


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## skelso (Apr 29, 2009)

frontier said:


> Are you sure it was metronidazole? My vet web site shows "Metronidazole should be avoided in pregnant animals, especially in the first trimester. Some metronidazole is excreted in breast milk and it should not be used in lactating animals".
> 
> I would take a trip to the vet for a fecal to see what you are dealing with exactly..parasites, bacterial, etc.. and find out exactly what treatment should be used for a nursing dam with puppies under a week old. Any other signs like mastitis? Could just be overfeeding and if you back off the feed for 24 hours and give the immodium she could immediately improve, but I would want to know for sure with a fecal.


Yep, positive. That's why I am skeptical about using it. Vet says "no issue with pups" but Merck Vet med book says "contraindicated in pregnant and lactating animals" however it doesn't go into any details as to why.

No other signs. She doesn't even act like it's bothering her other than a rather large amount of obnoxious gas.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

It's pretty normal due to the increase in food and a little bit of upset from the change in diet cleaning up after puppies etc. If she has no temperature, I personally would cut her back just a little because the 9 cups sounds right to me. I bet if you mix some yogurt and pumpkin in the food and give her the immodium a couple of days she will probably firm up.


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## Dale (Dec 21, 2003)

Give her a spoon full of pumkin.


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## my2ylws (Aug 12, 2010)

skelso said:


> 4 weeks prior to whelp I started to transition from Blue Buffalo Fish and sweet potato Adult to Blue Buffalo chicken and brown rice puppy. By 2 weeks prior to whelp she was on 100% puppy and still is.


Our female regularily ate Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon and always had decent stools but when we switched her to the Blue Buffalo puppy food during the pregnancy & whelping stage, she started almost immediately having terrible gas, very liquidy explosions. Started mixing in alot of pure pumpkin and it made a big difference. We had issues with the puppies as well on Blue Buffalo puppy food. We tested the stool samples, no worms or other parasites. Talked to a few other people who fed BB and they had similar issues so we switched to Purina Pro Plan Large Breed puppy and all the issues went away within a day or two. We have gotten away from feeding Blue Buffalo all together. What looks good and sounds good on paper doesn't always work out.


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## skelso (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the replies folks! I forgot to mention in the OP that I have been adding Pumpkin to her food the past two days (about 1/2 a can so far). 

I've done a LOT of research today and have found multiple veterinary sources that say both Imodium AD and Metronidazole are no - no's for lactating animals. Called my vet back to discuss and he agreed they are labeled against such use but stated he has had good past success with no known side affects... I'm not willing to take the chance so I asked him for other ideas.

His new RX is cut food back, continue pumpkin, and add cottage cheese.

I like this approach much better! The whole reason I posted in the first place is I am skeptical about giving any type of drug while the pups are nursing on her.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

skelso said:


> Thanks for the replies folks! I forgot to mention in the OP that I have been adding Pumpkin to her food the past two days (about 1/2 a can so far).
> 
> I've done a LOT of research today and have found multiple veterinary sources that say both Imodium AD and Metronidazole are no - no's for lactating animals. Called my vet back to discuss and he agreed they are labeled against such use but stated he has had good past success with no known side affects... I'm not willing to take the chance so I asked him for other ideas.
> 
> ...


3X normal ratio may be the problem.. gosh I am never up to 3X in the first week...even with a big litter..their digestive system has to adjust... Now at 2-3 weeks..may 3 times....keep a close eye out for mastitis giving so much food the first week..if the pups aren't completely nursing her out it can come up really quickly


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## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

Have you checked for coccidia? Easy to treat; can treat puppies as well with the same med, Albon.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

skelso said:


> Thanks for the replies folks! I forgot to mention in the OP that I have been adding Pumpkin to her food the past two days (about 1/2 a can so far).
> 
> I've done a LOT of research today and have found multiple veterinary sources that say both Imodium AD and Metronidazole are no - no's for lactating animals. Called my vet back to discuss and he agreed they are labeled against such use but stated he has had good past success with no known side affects... I'm not willing to take the chance so I asked him for other ideas.
> 
> ...


Rather than the cottage cheese you might try yogurt (something with natural probiotics) or pick up some probiotics at a feeds store.

WRL


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## skelso (Apr 29, 2009)

WRL said:


> Rather than the cottage cheese you might try yogurt (something with natural probiotics) or pick up some probiotics at a feeds store.
> 
> WRL


I picked up some plain yogurt when I went to get the cottage cheese. I thought I'm going to try the cheese until tomorrow night. If no change I'll switch to the yogurt. 

Thanks!


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## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

frontier said:


> 3X normal ratio may be the problem.. gosh I am never up to 3X in the first week...even with a big litter..their digestive system has to adjust... Now at 2-3 weeks..may 3 times....keep a close eye out for mastitis giving so much food the first week..if the pups aren't completely nursing her out it can come up really quickly


I'll add, always watch for mastitis. Had it only once ... in the first week. A friend had it around the 4th week. If you see/feel any hard, red glands, start with the cabbage leaves. If you don't see improvement, you'll need antibiotics. Many swear by the cabbage leaves.


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## Ironman (Jan 1, 2008)

I saw the same thing with a litter this winter. Mom just went liquid, she had all negative fecals, normal temp, etc. Normally holding back food for 24 kind of resets the system and all is back to normal...but not the best idea for a lactating female and week old pups. What worked was using Canine Gastrointestinal Health Prescription from Science Diet (canned) for about 3 days. I'm not pushing the brand, and typically despise Science Diet and I really hate that Vets push such an inferior food and being "the best." All that aside, the canned specialty stuff worked and we were back to her regular kibble in 3 days and normal stools. 
Best wishes!


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## sterregold (May 27, 2005)

I like goat's milk yoghurt even better than regular yoghurt--it is easier for them to digest. That plus the pumpkin and a good probiotic usually gets it under control. Also split the food into smaller, more frequent meals. I ended up soaking the food for one girl until she got back to normal as softening it seemed to make it easier to digest.


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## skelso (Apr 29, 2009)

*** Update ***

Well, seems I'm not alone in this scenario. Several people PM'd me with similar stories as the one my2ylws posted in this thread. All who PM'd me had good luck with Blue Buffalo adult but saw lots of gas and diarrhea when they switched to puppy.

I ran out and got a small bag of ProPlan selects puppy (turkey and barley) yesterday and fed her half and half (PP / Blue puppy) at lunch and afternoon. After talking with ladyduckhunter last night I decided if it's the Blue puppy causing issues I should just switch rather then wean from one to the other. Last night she got 100% PP select. 

By mid afternoon yesterday the gas had subsided. This morning her stool was better consistency. Not solid, but somewhat formed. 

Stopped by the vet clinic this morning and dropped off stool samples from Sat, Sun, and today. All came back clear.

I thought a lot about this yesterday. When I got Cheyenne she was on Loyall puppy and had terrible stools. I tried Loyall adult and had same results. Tried ProPlan, same results. Tried Eukanuba, same results. Tried Blue Buffalo fish and sweet potato (adult) and all was well. We all assumed she was having issues with the corn and/or wheat in the other foods. Now I'm not so sure the grains were really the root of the issue because what I realized last night is they were all some form of chicken and XXX except the Blue Buffalo. The Blue Puppy I used was chicken and rice. Also, after reading that several people give their dams homemade chicken broth after whelping I did the same (Now realizing the worst of the diarrhea was after giving the broth). So now I'm suspecting it's actually the chicken that is giving her issues. I realize it's pure speculation at this point but I plan to have her allergy tested after getting the pups to their new homes in hopes of finding some answers. 

Thanks again for all the replies and advise!


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## fldlabs (Jun 16, 2021)

skelso said:


> My girl whelped Tuesday. She's had diarrhea since a few days prior to whelp. Vet initially told me not to worry as it was common with pregnancy. This morning I called to tell him she still had it and is now worse. She's begun passing a lot of liquid along with the diarrhea.
> 
> His suggestion was Imodium AD - 1tab every 8 hours OR a round of Metronidazole. He offered no real prefference either way. I have both on hand.
> 
> ...


I have been breeding Labradors for 22 years. I lost an entire litter using metronidazole on the bitch. I would never use it again. Albon is my choice but I also use Imodium.


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## Kyla ann (10 mo ago)

fldlabs said:


> I have been breeding Labradors for 22 years. I lost an entire litter using metronidazole on the bitch. I would never use it again. Albon is my choice but I also use Imodium.


 I read that albon wasn’t safe for lactating bitches. Is it safe? I have a bitch who I believe has cocci now, but the pups are 4 weeks and I was hesitant to use albon because of the warnings


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