# Pudelpointers- the good, the bad & the ugly? (GDG)



## dmccarty

These dogs intrigue me. They say 99% of them are owned by hunters. No dog shows, very few sold as pets. I am told they are the most "Lab-ish" of the pointy dog breeds in their personality and character. You never see them on TV and I have never seen one on a wildlife refuge. Has anyone had any experience with them and if so, how would they compare to good field bred Labs in hunting drive, temperament/attitude?


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## gdgnyc

I know of one here on the Island. I have seen this dog at a NAVHDA event and did help the handler/owner with his gear. The dog is awesome. Very good in the water, too. This owner occasionally posts on here, maybe he will see this and give you more info as he is also a former retriever field trialer.


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## awolfe

For years, my neighbor had some of the top labs around the area, with one or two other breeders in a 100 or so mile radius. Then he got greedy and decided to see if he could capitalize on the fuzzy cross breed fad. Bought himself a white standard poodle (disgusting in itself, if you ask me). He stopped doing all hunt tests and raised litters of little fuzzy whatevers with his good lab and golden girls. I don't think any of them were marketed as anything BUT expensive pets in big cities, probably Denver in particular. 

To each their own and with no right to judge, but I really respected my friend's dogs and training abilities alike at one time. I saw him the other day in town and he said they'd given up most of the dogs to a rescue organization in CO. .... Nice.

--Andrea Wolfe


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## Charles C.

awolfe said:


> For years, my neighbor had some of the top labs around the area, with one or two other breeders in a 100 or so mile radius. Then he got greedy and decided to see if he could capitalize on the fuzzy cross breed fad. Bought himself a white standard poodle (disgusting in itself, if you ask me). He stopped doing all hunt tests and raised litters of little fuzzy whatevers with his good lab and golden girls. I don't think any of them were marketed as anything BUT expensive pets in big cities, probably Denver in particular.
> 
> To each their own and with no right to judge, but I really respected my friend's dogs and training abilities alike at one time. I saw him the other day in town and he said they'd given up most of the dogs to a rescue organization in CO. .... Nice.
> 
> --Andrea Wolfe


How is this .... relevant?


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## Mike Tome

awolfe said:


> For years, my neighbor had some of the top labs around the area, with one or two other breeders in a 100 or so mile radius. Then he got greedy and decided to see if he could capitalize on the fuzzy cross breed fad. Bought himself a white standard poodle (disgusting in itself, if you ask me). He stopped doing all hunt tests and raised litters of little fuzzy whatevers with his good lab and golden girls. I don't think any of them were marketed as anything BUT expensive pets in big cities, probably Denver in particular.
> 
> To each their own and with no right to judge, but I really respected my friend's dogs and training abilities alike at one time. I saw him the other day in town and he said they'd given up most of the dogs to a rescue organization in CO. .... Nice.
> 
> --Andrea Wolfe


A pudelpointer is not a labradoodle..... the first is a recognized breed, the second is a fad-breeding, otherwise known as a mutt.


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## awolfe

It's simply my observations of the desire and (lack of) commitment of a well respected person in my area to raise cross breeds. It didn't happen to turn out so well and was greed based. No, not pudelpointers, but in my eyes a similar thought process. 

OP says "99% of them are owned by hunters." How would anyone be able to know or verify that?

"No dog shows, very few sold as pets. You never see them on TV and I have never seen one on a wildlife refuge," it states. So, where are they? 

I'm telling a story about the result of a cross breed money earning scheme that frustrates me. We see so much of this locally with all kinds of dogs---I just don't happen to like it. cockapoo, ****apoo, puffy poo, labradoodle, whatever. My dogs aren't perfect for everyone, but I like them and I wouldn't dream of giving them up to a rescue organization if they're not making me enough money. That tells me his whole plan of raising cross breeds was for the wrong reason. 

I was trying to simply state that full blood lab is my choice. Simplified and not so politically correct ----I don't like what I see with the cross breed schemes. How wonderful that they're now just trying to save them from the pound. That's pretty judgemental. I'm sure there are fantastic folks out there doing pudelpointers. More power to them. I'm not trying to start a fight about registered vs non registered. Just always figured if I someday decide I want a fluffy whatever I'll go to the pound and save one. Our pound is full of them thanks to breeders like the one I discussed. 

-A. Wolfe


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## awolfe

Mike Tome said:


> A pudelpointer is not a labradoodle..... the first is a recognized breed, the second is a fad-breeding, otherwise known as a mutt.


OK. But all the labradoodle folks are also probably trying to get that to be a recognized breed too.


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## T-Pines

AS others have said this is not a cross breed, it is a versatile gun dog. Look it up.
The one that I had the pleasure of knowing was an awesome dog. Achieved his HRCH easilly, was equally good on land and water and had an excellent calm, stong will to please his owner type temperament. Also very birdy.

Colleen


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## labsforme

Please don't talk out of the top of your hat about a so called "cross breed". Do some research before putting your foot into it.

"In 1881, a German breeder, Baron von Zedlitz, worked on producing his ideal tracking, pointing, and retrieving gun dog, suitable for work on both land and water. From seven specific Poodles and nearly 100 different pointers, he developed the Pudelpointer. The original sire was Tell, an English Pointer belonging to Kaiser Frederick III and the original dam was a German hunting pudel named Molly who was owned by Hegewald, an author known for works on hunting dogs.

The goal was to produce a dog that was willing and easy to train, intelligent, and loved water and retrieving, like the poodle, and add to that a great desire to hunt, a strong pointing instinct, and an excellent nose, like in the English Pointer, as well as being an excellent companion in the home.

The breed was introduced to North America in 1956 by Bodo Winterhelt, who to this day, remains very involved in maintaining the breed standard. His Winterhelle Kennel was the foundation of the breed in North America. In 1977 Winterhelt founded the Pudelpointer Club of North America in Canada."

I was in NAVHDA in the early '70s and know Bodo.There were a number of Pudelpointers in So Cal at that time.They are not labs but are a very creditable water dog/upland game dog.

Jeff Gruber


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## MarkinMissouri

Mike Tome said:


> A pudelpointer is not a labradoodle..... the first is a recognized breed, the second is a fad-breeding, otherwise known as a mutt.


Pictures and history please if anyone has them. I haven't heard of them.


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## The Snows

MarkinMissouri said:


> Pictures and history please if anyone has them. I haven't heard of them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudelpointer


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## MarkinMissouri

Sorry, must remember... Listen/read first... THEN type 

Thanks for the history. Any Pics? Would appear to be a very rare breed. Is the breed recognized by AKC or UKC yet?

Thanks
Mark


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## MarkinMissouri

The Snows said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudelpointer


Thanks for the info!


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## Mike Tome

MarkinMissouri said:


> Pictures and history please if anyone has them. I haven't heard of them.


 take a look here for pudelpointers; use your imagination for labradoodles... they are simply a lab x poodle cross


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## The Snows

Recognized by the Canadian Kennel Club and the UKC. Does not appear to be listed on the AKC site.


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## pupaloo

I have a friend who has had and bred PPs for many years (so Cal, high desert area). Our first lab was killed young in an accident, and she loaned us one of her dogs for that hunting season-we hunted several times with all her dogs, too, and several others. My experience with PPs is that they are bird finding machines; some like water and some don't, but they do swim well; they are more self-employed than labs; they can handle pressure but don't like it and will not bounce back like some labs will-they seem to hold a grudge; several I have been around were fairly hard mouthed (no cripples returned alive, and yes they were all FF); the one we borrowed was pretty good in the house, but she was middle aged-most younger ones didn't relax well inside. They are TOUGH dogs in the upland field; very athletic, handle heat well, will go until you drag them in. They like people, but are much more aloof than labs and are all about hunting-not really a good choice if you want a pet.


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## Lynn Hanigan

I’ve trained several of them and have found them to be wonderful dogs. They are a retriever in a pointer’s body. The breeders will not sell one to you if you do not hunt, mainly because they are too good of a dog to be used as a pet.
The Pudel Pointer Club of America refuses to petition the AKC to recognize their breed because they know what the show people will do to them.
From dog to dog, Pudel Pointers have more intelligence, more heart, more character and more hunt in them than any other breed I have known and I am a Lab man.
I have never seen, nor even heard of a candyass or washout in the breed.


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## Sharon Potter

I have trained a few, and they are very nice dogs to work with. Very dedicated and determined in their work, and high trainability. I've found their temperament to be more consistent than some of the other breeds with a similar appearance. A very good choice for a versatile gundog.

And pudelpointers have absolutely nothing to do with cross bred mutts or labradoodles. Pudelpointers are an old and well established breed, unlike the current fad of designer mutts. Pudelpointers aren't a "glamour breed" for the show ring either....they're bred to hunt.


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## KEITH L

i have a friend that does own one from what i'm told' they are not recognized by akc
but have controlled breedings. and you have to quallify as a trainer / hunter / competetor 
to be able to purchase one also. not many around but tough and plesent dog we 
hunted in north dakota on phesants with him my labs and my friend also had german 
shorthairs we used to do very well. been a few years since i have been back'


keith l


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## Take'em

awolfe said:


> It's simply my observations of the desire and (lack of) commitment of a well respected person in my area to raise cross breeds. It didn't happen to turn out so well and was greed based. No, not pudelpointers, but in my eyes a similar thought process.
> 
> OP says "99% of them are owned by hunters." How would anyone be able to know or verify that?
> 
> "No dog shows, very few sold as pets. You never see them on TV and I have never seen one on a wildlife refuge," it states. So, where are they?
> 
> I'm telling a story about the result of a cross breed money earning scheme that frustrates me. We see so much of this locally with all kinds of dogs---I just don't happen to like it. cockapoo, ****apoo, puffy poo, labradoodle, whatever. My dogs aren't perfect for everyone, but I like them and I wouldn't dream of giving them up to a rescue organization if they're not making me enough money. That tells me his whole plan of raising cross breeds was for the wrong reason.
> 
> I was trying to simply state that full blood lab is my choice. Simplified and not so politically correct ----I don't like what I see with the cross breed schemes. How wonderful that they're now just trying to save them from the pound. That's pretty judgemental. I'm sure there are fantastic folks out there doing pudelpointers. More power to them. I'm not trying to start a fight about registered vs non registered. Just always figured if I someday decide I want a fluffy whatever I'll go to the pound and save one. Our pound is full of them thanks to breeders like the one I discussed.
> 
> -A. Wolfe


You could probably benfit from educating yourself on the breed before commenting, but it did provide some pretty decent humor.


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## Coveyrise64

MarkinMissouri said:


> Pictures and history please if anyone has them. I haven't heard of them.


I've always liked the looks of this one......!









Coveyrise64


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## awolfe

Take'em said:


> You could probably benfit from educating yourself on the breed before commenting, but it did provide some pretty decent humor.


Thanks to all who provided more in depth info. Can't and don't know everything and never said I did. I've enjoyed RTF as a way to learn more and chat with people with similar likings. Guess it doesn't take much to get folks' hackles up. Dang glad I didn't jump into the highly intelligent saggy body part discussion. ....btw just for future reference "benefit" has an e in it. ----


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## dmccarty

Thanks to all who responded. I have a Lab pup coming next summer/fall (a breeding that I have waited 3 years for), and love my Labs. I like to have two dogs for upland hunting though,and was thinking of getting a different breed to go along with my (purists stop reading here ) pointing Lab. I was wondering how Lab'ish the pudelpointer was, since I really like the Lab's happy-go-lucky-ness. 

I have to make a trip down to Burbank CA for two weeks in August and I think since I will be down in that neck of the woods I can at least go see what these dogs are like. There's a breeder Mark Westerlund in Bridgeport, I don't know of any others.


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## MarkinMissouri

awolfe said:


> Dang glad I didn't jump into the highly intelligent saggy body part discussion.


Now that was some good humor. I love a good body part thread


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## MarkinMissouri

Coveyrise64 said:


> I've always liked the looks of this one......!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coveyrise64


Nice looking dog! Having a hard time getting used to that head though. Looks like a real go getter!


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## precisionlabradors

awolfe said:


> . ....btw just for future reference "benefit" has an e in it. ----


spelling correction to an obvious typo=the bb version of talking smack while walking away with one's tail tucked between their legs. hahaha. the humor abounds.


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## 1st retriever

I had an interview with a lady a couple weeks ago. We got to talking about dogs and she and her husband have one of these. She said it is an awesome pheasant dog.


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## Donald Flanagan

awolfe said:


> Guess it doesn't take much to get folks' hackles up.


Just for future reference, let me see if I can break it down for you here.

The OP asked for info about a well-established breed. You replied with a post about your neighbor the designer dog breeder.

Mike Tome gently replied: 


Mike Tome said:


> A pudelpointer is not a labradoodle..... the first is a recognized breed, the second is a fad-breeding, otherwise known as a mutt.


Your response to the mild correction of your misunderstanding consisted of two posts that indicated that 1) you still thought that pudelpointers are a designer breed, and 2) you prefer pure-bred labs (by implication this makes you more ethical- maybe because pure-bred dogs don't end up in shelters ).

And THAT'S when peoples' hackles went up. You received some very gracious replies containing links, as well as some rather blunt (but not necessarily unmerited) advice that you should perhaps have not posted what you did, the way you did.

Unfortunately, rather than graciously and humbly acquiesce, you posted this jewel:


awolfe said:


> Dang glad I didn't jump into the highly intelligent saggy body part discussion. ....btw just for future reference "benefit" has an e in it. ----


Surely you can see how each of your posts was increasingly more inflamatory and, I dare say, even offensive (in light of the light-handed corrections you first received).

Now, we all type (or say) things that we later come to regret. But when we are corrected, we can choose to accept the correction, or go on making the same mistakes. Unfortunately, I sometimes continue in my erring ways, because it's hard for me to see those "blind spots".

In order to end this training session on a positive note, let me say that your passion and care for dogs probably adds much value to the dog world, but it needs to be demonstrated in a more constructive way. I highly appreciate, and believe you would enjoy and benEfit from a search and perusal of the posts of the great *Qui Chang Trainer *here on RTF. Study them, and absorb the humble way in which he/she presents her/his point of view. 

Been to the woodshed a couple times regards.


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## MarkinMissouri

Well said El Matavenados.


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## Mike Tome

MarkinMissouri said:


> Well said El Matavenados.


Ditto on that...

My hackles were not up, but I pretty much decided that awolfe did not want to listen to what we were trying to tell him or her. That's OK... you get what you pay for on the 'net. But, sometimes it actually is truthful....


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## awolfe

Ok, my apologies to all. My fault. I do appreciate learning about this breed. I still don't appreciate all of the influx of poodle x we see locally, but that's a different issue. That's what Charles probably meant early on in the discussion. Lashings taken.


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## bjoiner

I'll be the devil's advocate here, but the Labrador (see below), the Boykin and the PP both appear to have come from someone's idea of a cross breed to make a better dog. Not that I support the fad breedings of today, but from an objective view point, isn't that possibly what the breeders of the Labradoodle doing today? Is it just a matter of how long ago this happened and how people accepted the breed over time for its benefits?

Go ahead and bash me. BTW I own for full bred Labs. All American, but one thinks he is British. 

The modern Labrador's ancestors originated on the island of Newfoundland, now part of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada.[8] The founding breed of the Labrador was the St. John's Water Dog, a breed that emerged through ad-hoc breedings by early settlers of the island in the 16th century.[8] The forebears of the St. John's Dog are not known, but were likely a random-bred mix of English, Irish, and Portuguese working breeds. The Newfoundland (known then as the Greater Newfoundland) is likely a result of the St. John's Dog breeding with mastiffs brought to the island by the generations of Portuguese fishermen who had been fishing offshore since the 16th century. The smaller short-coated St. John's Dog (also known then as the Lesser Newfoundland) was used for retrieval and pulling in nets from the water. These smaller dogs were the forebears of the Labrador Retriever.


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## frontier

This breeder's site has comprehensive information about this breed and it's origins.

http://www.cedarwoodgundogs.com/

Identifies the origins of the breed in the history link... 

There is poodle in this breed..

There is no poodle identified in the origins of the Boykin Spaniel (one of the few breeds actually developed in America...however, there is Chesapeake Bay Retriever)


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## limiman12

I would argue that while the idea you propose has merit, it is not what is happening with the fad breedings of today.

The people that established the breeds you mentioned put many years and generations into carefully selecting what traits they were breeding for to be able to produce a consistant specimen. By the time the "breed" was recognized you were likely looking at F5 or higher crosses.

The people that are selling "labradoodles" are doing so with dollar signs in their eyes and are selling F1 crosses as though they KNOW that they are getting the "best" of both breeds. If a Breeder put six or seven generations of careful breeding, selection, perhaps culling from the program one way or another, in order to have parents that when bred produced puppies that were reasonably consistant in temperment and make to what the parent are, I would agree with you whole heartedly. That however is not the case with any "labradoodle" breeders I have heard of.


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## pixiebee

The breed is not recognized by AKC,not sold to anyone w/o a current hunting

lisence and is held to a breeding standard


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## agengo02

bjoiner said:


> I'll be the devil's advocate here, but the Labrador (see below), the Boykin and the PP both appear to have come from someone's idea of a cross breed to make a better dog. Not that I support the fad breedings of today, but from an objective view point, isn't that possibly what the breeders of the Labradoodle doing today? Is it just a matter of how long ago this happened and how people accepted the breed over time for its benefits?
> 
> Go ahead and bash me. BTW I own for full bred Labs. All American, but one thinks he is British.
> 
> The modern Labrador's ancestors originated on the island of Newfoundland, now part of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada.[8] The founding breed of the Labrador was the St. John's Water Dog, a breed that emerged through ad-hoc breedings by early settlers of the island in the 16th century.[8] The forebears of the St. John's Dog are not known, but were likely a random-bred mix of English, Irish, and Portuguese working breeds. The Newfoundland (known then as the Greater Newfoundland) is likely a result of the St. John's Dog breeding with mastiffs brought to the island by the generations of Portuguese fishermen who had been fishing offshore since the 16th century. The smaller short-coated St. John's Dog (also known then as the Lesser Newfoundland) was used for retrieval and pulling in nets from the water. These smaller dogs were the forebears of the Labrador Retriever.


I never understand when people criticize cross breedings when ALL dogs come from some sort of cross breeding. Yes it is true that most of your "designer" breedings are ONLY for money, but there are also just as many full blooded lab breeders that are ONLY breeding for money. Check your local paper for lab puppies with or without papers and check the prices. Just because you breed two full blooded dogs does not mean you are bettering the breed in any way, you just wanted to make some money or get a puppy from the litter. Call it what it is.

Also a few questions; should someone be criticized if they are actually putting the time and generations in to produce a new breed? What would be considered the appropriate amount of time/money/generations spent to be seen as a respectable breeder trying to either refine a current breed or introduce a new breed?


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## Sharon Potter

re: Labradoodles and cross-breeding: 

This was originally started years ago to create a breed of service dog (seeing eye dogs, in Australia, if I recall correctly). The breeding program was scrapped after several generations because no true phenotype was emerging....it was still a crapshoot several generations in as to what the dog would look like. Add to that the disposition problems that cropped up, and that's why the original program was discontinued. 

Today's labradoodle "breeders" are only looking to make a buck off of unknowledgable people....they don't care if the dogs develop a type or breed true in later generations. This cross will never be recognized, and does not breed true in successive generations....unlike actual breeds that developed from crossbreeding and do breed true to type.


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## Billie

dmccarty said:


> Thanks to all who responded. I have a Lab pup coming next summer/fall (a breeding that I have waited 3 years for), and love my Labs. I like to have two dogs for upland hunting though,and was thinking of getting a different breed to go along with my (purists stop reading here ) pointing Lab. I was wondering how Lab'ish the pudelpointer was, since I really like the Lab's happy-go-lucky-ness.
> 
> I have to make a trip down to Burbank CA for two weeks in August and I think since I will be down in that neck of the woods I can at least go see what these dogs are like. There's a breeder Mark Westerlund in Bridgeport, I don't know of any others.


D,
Just get two labs! You should know that this is lab country up here. I met a friend of yours yesterday, Tina with the petting zoo. Nice gal, I got some ducks from her. Did you get the info on EIC ?


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## agengo02

Sharon Potter said:


> re: Labradoodles and cross-breeding:
> 
> This was originally started years ago to create a breed of service dog (seeing eye dogs, in Australia, if I recall correctly). The breeding program was scrapped after several generations because no true phenotype was emerging....it was still a crapshoot several generations in as to what the dog would look like. Add to that the disposition problems that cropped up, and that's why the original program was discontinued.
> 
> Today's labradoodle "breeders" are only looking to make a buck off of unknowledgable people....they don't care if the dogs develop a type or breed true in later generations. This cross will never be recognized, and does not breed true in successive generations....unlike actual breeds that developed from crossbreeding and do breed true to type.


Thanks for the info on that I had never read about their original reasons for breeding them before. I have a couple of questions though: wouldn't it make sense that after several generations there wasn't a standard look since it takes several or more generations to actually lock down on a breed standard? What kinds of disposition problems came up (bad temperament/biting issues)? 

A little side story about crappy breeders: Several weeks ago I was out of town for work and drove past a house that had a sign for registered lab puppies for sale. No joke, he had a pen set up in his driveway with the momma and almost a dozen barely eyes open puppies sitting on the concrete with a sign and a price; $600 per puppy. Psh lab breeders right!


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## Sharon Potter

agengo02 said:


> Thanks for the info on that I had never read about their original reasons for breeding them before. I have a couple of questions though: wouldn't it make sense that after several generations there wasn't a standard look since it takes several or more generations to actually lock down on a breed standard? What kinds of disposition problems came up (bad temperament/biting issues)?



That's the problem....after many generations, there was no set "breed" emerging. My understanding on the temperament issues is that the dogs weren't easy going enough, and had a tendency to be over-reactive and a bit "sharp" when corrected...just not suitable for the intended purpose.


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## agengo02

Sharon Potter said:


> That's the problem....after many generations, there was no set "breed" emerging. My understanding on the temperament issues is that the dogs weren't easy going enough, and had a tendency to be over-reactive and a bit "sharp" when corrected...just not suitable for the intended purpose.


Thanks for the info that makes sense that they would scrap that breeding since it didn't pan out like they had hoped. I actually know of a guy from one of my state hunting forums that trained his wife's Labradoodle and it turned out to be a hell of a duck dog. He hasn't said anything negative about the dog during training or hunting.


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## Sharon Potter

The other important distinction to make regarding cross-breeding is that when developing a breed, top quality examples of the breeds added are used, not backyard culls. There aren't any FC-AFC-MH-CH Labs breeding standard Poodles with a CH or MH to create labradoodles. The dogs used in these designer programs are generally backyard breedings with little talent for the intended purpose. 

Of course, those breeding them will tell you that the parents hunt. While there may be some that can and do, I have yet to see one, and I've had four or five come through over the last few years. The ones I've seen couldn't find a bird in their feed pan.


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## agengo02

Sharon Potter said:


> The other important distinction to make regarding cross-breeding is that when developing a breed, top quality examples of the breeds added are used, not backyard culls. There aren't any FC-AFC-MH-CH Labs breeding standard Poodles with a CH or MH to create labradoodles. The dogs used in these designer programs are generally backyard breedings with little talent for the intended purpose.
> 
> Of course, those breeding them will tell you that the parents hunt. While there may be some that can and do, I have yet to see one, and I've had four or five come through over the last few years. The ones I've seen couldn't find a bird in their feed pan.


Did the original breedings you referenced in your previous post use the top dogs too? Or I guess the best they had available to them?


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## Sharon Potter

It's my understanding that they did use good quality dogs. I'm not sure what criteria they used to define quality...probably trainability type testing to prove the existence of specific traits suitable for the intended use as guide dogs for the blind. It was likely not an inexpensive undertaking. Compared to the "doodle" breeders, who take pretty much anything with papers and cross them.


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## Ryan Lee

Bump. Interested in the breed.


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## kindakinky

Dave Duffey, the Wisconsin gun dog guy and dog training author, actually wrote a fair bit about Pudelpointers 20-30 years ago. I believe Dave had a couple of them. Pudelpointers were always pretty popular in Canada.

As a person who has had the same breed for more than 30 years, I am not opposed to people trying to develop new breeds. Unlike some dog people, I think it is great the new retrievers have been developed: the Golden, the Labrador, and the Chesapeake Bay are certainly wonderful breeds.

J. Marti
Breeder/owner of Curly Coated Retrievers: Purebred since at least 1850.


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## jhnnythndr

There was an interesting doodle link here a bit back, maybe a week? Doubt it's sunk so far as to be below page 5 or so. It featured an interview with the originator of the cross, which he stated was done using the best service dogs available, with an eye toward SPECIFICALLY the hypoallergenic end. And in fact was sending skin and saliva samples to the intended recipient o the dog, to insure her husband was not allergic to the new prospect. The main complaint he listed in the interview weren't performance related, they were related to irresponsible marketing of the "non allergenic" trait, etc. My dad's golden doodle, while a pleasant dog to be around, and suitable for light weight upland and waterfowl hunting, is a sore subject between us. He is the one, afterall, who gave me my appreciation for labs. Such is life anyway.


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## fjwrt

http://www.pudelpointer.org/

is a good place to start, I have worked on several in the clinic as there is a local breeder who imports some dogs. Nice looking dogs with a lot of natural drive and ability. Most of these owners run NAVHDA and depend on those rankings as far as breedings are concerned. 

Definitely not a designer breed


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## Rick Hall

Only pudelpointer I've waterfowled over was a horrible bird grinder and had some serious training shortcomings, but he may have been the neatest Germanic dog I've hunted anything over. Was impressed enough to have paid some attention when the breed's been brought up, and gather inconsistencies in coat is something anyone looking for a waterfowling pudelpointer might want to be aware of.


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## Pudelpointer

I have a 2 1/2 year old Pudelpointer male from Cedarwoods Kennel in ID. I can honestly say he is the best dog that I have ever owned. I also have two field bred labs and use to run retriever trials until the mid 90's. My Pudelpointer has as much desire to retrieve as any lab that I have owned and I have owned labs that have all age points. As far as temperment, mine is a little high strung in the house, very good with people and other dogs and very playfull. He is FF'd and does not have a hard mouth, we use live ducks in our water training and I have had the same LIVE ducks all summer. If anyone wants more info on this breed I would be happy to speak with them, just PM me.


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## dixidawg

Dragging up an old thread.....

Does anyone know of any active Pudlepointer breeders? I am currently researching the breed and google led me to this thread. Trying to find a breeder that I can talk with and possibly visit before I make any decisions.

Thanks in advance!


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## Gary M

My nephew has one. Loves it! He was such a nice dog, I recommended one to my BIL who was looking for an all-around hunting dog/family dog that was not a Lab. His pup is a very nice dog! Here is a link to the NA Pudelpointer Breeder Alliance http://www.pudelpointer.net/breeders.html My BIL got his from Killbuck in OH.


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## Don Smith

Gary M said:


> My BIL got his from Killbuck in OH.


Interesting! I'm about 40 minutes from Killbuck, drive past it when I go to the bird auction. I had no idea.


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## Ken Barton

have a 2 1/2 year old Pudelpointer male from Cedarwoods Kennel in ID. I can honestly say he is the best dog that I have ever owned. I also have two field bred labs and use to run retriever trials until the mid 90's. My Pudelpointer has as much desire to retrieve as any lab that I have owned and I have owned labs that have all age points. As far as temperment, mine is a little high strung in the house, very good with people and other dogs and very playfull. He is FF'd and does not have a hard mouth, we use live ducks in our water training and I have had the same LIVE ducks all summer. If anyone wants more info on this breed I would be happy to speak with them, just PM me.)

Glad to hear about this. A local land owner and pro baseball player lets us train on his land and plans to hunt it. He recently told me he wanted help when he gets a puppy-“I want a dog that is good on the water and can do upland and is good in the house and kids” I replied-so far you’re talking about a lab-at which time he showed me a picture of a pudelpointer, and since then I’ve had some trepidation. I’m glad to hear all the above. The fact that it’s not recognized by the AKC is troublesome but politics could be involved. At least it’s not a backyard crossbred animal, in fact it sounds interesting and what is NAVHADA or whatever above?


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## dixidawg

NAVHDA is THE testing organization for pointing (versatile) gun dogs:

https://www.navhda.org/

And the reason that Pudelpointers are not recognized by AKC is because the Pudelpointer organization does not want to be. They have seen the split in so many breeds and they want to avoid that. They want to keep the Pudelpointers hunting dogs. Pudelpointers must pass NAVHDA tests before they can be bred to insure the breed stays true to its hunting heritage and purpose.


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## Big Chief

An older gentleman I know breeds them. I have hunted a handful of times over his dogs, two of which have their Navhda UT Prize 1 (essentially their FC status). One of the dogs is out of this world, and has thrown exceptional litters, but she is retired now. The dogs happily retrieve from water, and are beasts on a duck search, however when it gets cold, water is not their forte, nor is it fair to them, as they do not have the coat for it. I came very close to getting one of his pups. If I were in the US, and wanted one of these dogs, I would be putting my name on the waiting list of Cedarwood Kennels. Bob Ferris produces outstanding Pudelpointers.


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## Ken Barton

Thanks Dixidawg


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