# Top Non-Lean Mac Dogs?



## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Want to say 1st and foremost I am a big LM fan. Please don't use this thread to say or continue to say things negative about LM - it is not the intent of this thread.

What I want are your opinions of the top 5 FT dogs currently running (or for males still breeding) without LM in the pedigree. The top 5 (for my purposes) should be dogs of accomplishment in FTs. If you can, name a top 5 males and a top 5 females.

Your opinions, please...........


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

2008 NAFC FC Hawkeyes Coast Guard

FC AFC Creek Robber


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Both very nice dogs. 

Is it because Lean Mac has been such a dominate sire that no one else has come up with a list? I here many say LM is not so dominate, just been bred a lot. If that is the case, then there should be a long list of top dogs without LM in the pedigree. I know of some but wanted to hear for you........


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## born2retrieve (Nov 18, 2007)

NFC Deweys Drake Of Moon River
I'll second Creek Robber


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

Two stud dogs I have used recently.

AFC Super High Flyer 

AFC Cosmic Blue Genes

Both dogs have been on the Purina High Point list and Levi was a Nat'l Am Finalist as were his sire & dam.


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## Bob Agnor (Nov 25, 2004)

I believe Chad Baker's Cody is Lean Mac free. 25 AA pts in 2008


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

Cody is a Lean Mac Grandson. Cody's dam is by Lean Mac.


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## Chris S. (Dec 15, 2004)

FC-AFC Esprit's Power Play (Blk-By)
He has lots of dogs on the derby list right now.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

About you guys in the NW, aren't there some nice Jazztime dogs around with no LM in the pedigree?


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Granddaddy said:


> About you guys in the NW, aren't there some nice Jazztime dogs around with no LM in the pedigree?


most Jazztime dogs I know are crossed with lean mac, can't help it cause it is a really great cross


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## check171 (May 12, 2004)

NAFC FC Carbon Copy Of Horn Creek


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

I think Bechtel's dog, Jazztime Hanging Chad is non-LM.

Esprit's Power Play is a nice one too...and his sire Esprit's Out of the Woods was too.

I judged Pow in an Am sometime back & he was impressive, also another non-LM dog in that same Am that won, Pinoak's Texas Rex.


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

FC AFC Joey's Zoom Zoom 

FC AFC Croppers Hit and Run


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

two of the older dogs that have impressed me are:
FC AFC Blackwater Rudy 
FC AFC Hilltop's Hayseed
The reason I am impressed by these dogs as I have daughters by them that cross real with my LM grandson....


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## GoodDog (Oct 15, 2007)

I believe Van Ames dog Copper is LM free. FC CAFC Money Talks II


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## kiddcline (Nov 26, 2007)

Granddaddy said:


> I think Bechtel's dog, Jazztime Hanging Chad is non-LM.QUOTE]
> 
> I'll second that.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

With over 1200 views on this thread, there have been only 15 dogs noted as top non-LM dogs. Most, if not all, are males. Has LM really been this dominate as a sire? Surely there are some really nice FT-titled dogs & bitches out there that have not been mentioned.....anyone?


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

FC AFC Marsh Prairie Quick Pick. Quick is a National finalist and approaching 100 All Age points.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Mr Booty said:


> FC AFC Marsh Prairie Quick Pick. Quick is a National finalist and approaching 100 All Age points.


Nice dog but has LM as grandsire on the dam side........


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## Chris S. (Dec 15, 2004)

OK I did have a look see at Gooddoginfo

For females what about Maple Creeks Sunny Delight- 3 titled offspring?

GD/DD I don't know what this RTF readership looks at to judge good FT dogs, but I think titled offspring is the best test.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> Is it because Lean Mac has been such a dominate sire that no one else has come up with a list?


Yes

This is a great post to get folks to look at the "popular sire syndrome" and "bottlenecking on a line" from a different perspective. Lean Mac has the influence now that Honcho had in FT lines a while back. 

FC-AFC TAYLORLAB DOWNTOWN DUSTY BROWN 04 NDC "Dusty"

'08CNAFC-AFC-CAFC MOONSTONES HUG AND MOOCHIE "Ham"


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> With over 1200 views on this thread, there have been only 15 dogs noted as top non-LM dogs. Most, if not all, are males. Has LM really been this dominate as a sire? Surely there are some really nice FT-titled dogs & bitches out there that have not been mentioned.....anyone?


Lean Mac has had a big influance on our field trial dogs. No question about it. If you are really interested, I would suggest that you check out the Feb/Mar issue of Retriever News where they list all dogs who have placed in trials, their point totals and the sire and dam of each dog. Since your original post asked about male dogs who were still breeding that may have led folks to think you were looking for stud dogs.


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

The first dog that came to my mind is Jimmy & Debbie Darnell's FC AFC "Cane". 

Second is FC AFC Hunting Hills Coriander "Cori" 

Pretty sure they are Lean Mac free,
Shannon


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

FC AFC Greenwing Bright Eyes remains active
FC AFC Carolina's Electrik Gypsy was active until her untimely death this fall.
FC Castelbay's Heir Born was also active until her premature death this fall

Unfortunately with females by the time you know the quality of their offspring they are generally too old to breed.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

North Mountain said:


> Lean Mac has had a big influance on our field trial dogs. No question about it. If you are really interested, I would suggest that you check out the Feb/Mar issue of Retriever News where they list all dogs who have placed in trials, their point totals and the sire and dam of each dog. Since your original post asked about male dogs who were still breeding that may have led folks to think you were looking for stud dogs.


Then you can follow that up with OFA and do a vertical pedigree and/or Good dog info.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

North Mountain said:


> ...If you are really interested, I would suggest that you check out the Feb/Mar issue of Retriever News.... Since your original post asked about male dogs who were still breeding that may have led folks to think you were looking for stud dogs.


Is the Feb/Mar issue out? I usually don't get all those published (still missing October 2008) for some reason. Maybe the post office.....

I think my original post asked for a top 5 male and females. I'm interested for several reasons. Breeding potentially, but also as a consideration when looking for a pup and also to better understand LM influence (both positive & negative) in field stock breeding today.

So far there have been about 20 males noted and 1-2 females. Surely there are more, esp females.


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

I see it, you did ask for females. Off the top of my head, Linda Harger's Yakity I'm certain has no Lean Mac. :razz:


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

North Mountain said:


> I see it, you did ask for females. Off the top of my head, Linda Harger's Yakity I'm certain has no Lean Mac. :razz:



I'd be pretty certain of that too - but another nice dog, just doesn't meet my Lab criteria, which I did fail to mention, assuming the obvious.


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

FC Riparian Windfall - not saying he's one of the top 5 just stating that he's non Maxx bred, titled, well bred and running currently (which is a tough combo to find).

Travis


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## Bustin' (Jun 5, 2007)

FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger (and his siblings)
FC AFC Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow (Frozen)


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## Jim Pickering (Sep 17, 2004)

Unfortunately there is not currently a complete searchable database to research questions like yours David. Good Dog Info has fairly complete data but one cannot search by title. However, you can use the search function on EE and search by title but it will list only the first 100 hits. If you search for FC it indicates there are 665 FCs in the database. If you search for AFC it indicates that there are 458 AFC dogs in the database. If you search for FC AFC there are only 121, but still you can see only the first 100.

If you happen to know anyone associated with EntryExpress you might talk to them about tweaking the search function. It would be nice to search for FC AFC females with no Lean Mac in her pedigree. You never know but there could be a few retriever folks out there who would actually pay to access such a database. At least fix it so one is able to pull up a complete list of FC and/or AFC dogs then one could spend those cold rainy winter days checking the pedigrees one by one on Good Dog Info.

In the mean time you can go to Good Dog Info, pull up Code Blue, then his offspring and find the few with the FC and/or AFC that do not have Lean Mac on the other half of the pedigree.


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## zeus3925 (Mar 27, 2008)

I have a pup out of the Jazztime/Rascal lineage. He is looking really good. He is a laser line marker with impressive speed. We plan to start running derbies with him in 6-7 weeks.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

First of all I come from a house that has two LMac grandchildren, but I think you will start seeing a trend toward non LM dogs or at least those where LM is a couple of generations removed.He is a prolific sire, both in the fact that he was bred so many times and that there are so many of his offspring that are titled and also throwing quality dogs too. but sometimes too much of a good thing isnt always a good thing


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Here are a few titled canines via Gooddoginfo.com going off the Code Blue, Dare to Dream and NFC Rocket and NFC Eba lines:

FC AFC Candlewood's Rita Reynolds
AFC Cosmic Blue Jeans
FC Rock River Leica
FC Bayou Teche Tex
FC AFC Case Hardened Colors
FC Pinmark's Queen of Pride Rock
FC AFC Sandman's Ticket
FC AFC Meba's Mschief

Travis


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Jim Pickering said:


> Unfortunately there is not currently a complete searchable database to research questions like yours David. Good Dog Info has fairly complete data but one cannot search by title. However, you can use the search function on EE and search by title but it will list only the first 100 hits. If you search for FC it indicates there are 665 FCs in the database. If you search for AFC it indicates that there are 458 AFC dogs in the database. If you search for FC AFC there are only 121, but still you can see only the first 100.
> 
> If you happen to know anyone associated with EntryExpress you might talk to them about tweaking the search function. It would be nice to search for FC AFC females with no Lean Mac in her pedigree. You never know but there could be a few retriever folks out there who would actually pay to access such a database. At least fix it so one is able to pull up a complete list of FC and/or AFC dogs then one could spend those cold rainy winter days checking the pedigrees one by one on Good Dog Info.
> 
> In the mean time you can go to Good Dog Info, pull up Code Blue, then his offspring and find the few with the FC and/or AFC that do not have Lean Mac on the other half of the pedigree.



Jim, you think maybe a day like today might be one suited for such a task? I have used GDI just as you have suggested for both Code Blue, Jazztime and some of their offspring as well. I'm coming up short on numbers, just like this thread but there are some nice non-LM dogs. Interesting how many more males there seem to be than females. But the numbers seem smaller than I might have thought prior to this exercise.

As for Entry Express, Shayne & I have looked at things related to how we might make better use of the information we accumulate from trials. Ironically, we were discussing this earlier today related to some statistical data that might have some real value to retriever enthusiasts. Personally, I'd like starts versus placement data for dogs and handlers - among other things. And there are a number of other things that might be of interest that could be derived from the data we accumulate, especially if there were a market for the information. Unfortunately there is cost associated with a better utilization & availability and our dicussion today was inpart related to what level of interest there might be.

But back on topic, I'm frankly surprised at the extensive influence Lean Mac has had on our field bred Labrador Retrievers over the last ten years. I have made note from the RTFN stats after the nat'l/nat'l am that in the last several years his offspring have made up on average more than 1/3 of the field. Quite impressive, when it come to performance - and maybe concerning when it comes to some other issues.

And BTW, Jim, congratulations to you & Willie on his fine derby career.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

I thought the criteria was for "still competing?" If we can identify "deceased" or no longer competing, more dogs can be listed.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

frontier said:


> I thought the criteria was for "still competing?" If we can identify "deceased" or no longer competing, more dogs can be listed.



My interest would be currently competing or still breeding. That would leave out deceased dogs & females too old to breed. I understand there has been a dog or two mentioned who are deceased.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> Jim, you think maybe a day like today might be one suited for such a task? I have used GDI just as you have suggested for both Code Blue, Jazztime and some of their offspring as well. I'm coming up short on numbers, just like this thread but there are some nice non-LM dogs. Interesting how many more males there seem to be than females. But the numbers seem smaller than I might have thought prior to this exercise.
> 
> As for Entry Express, Shayne & I have looked at things related to how we might make better use of the information we accumulate from trials. Ironically, we were discussing this earlier today related to some statistical data that might have some real value to retriever enthusiasts. Personally, I'd like starts versus placement data for dogs and handlers - among other things. And there are a number of other things that might be of interest that could be derived from the data we accumulate, especially if there were a market for the information. Unfortunately there is cost associated with a better utilization & availability and our dicussion today was inpart related to what level of interest there might be.
> 
> ...


Well you didn't tell me that Pickering was willing to pay!!!

Jim, there is a reason the search is limited right now and it has to do with taxing the database as well as the users internet connection. The smarter way to do it would be to separate the titles from the names and we will certainly go that route should we elect to improve the search and statistics features on our site. The crossroads on this is do a little and get a little, or do it right and offer powerful and feature filled search/stats capability. The obvious question is recovering the costs associated with such enhancements. 

As to LM... he's certainly in more places than i thought when i did a little digging. Being LM free was a factor when i picked Boogie's litter. (Sunny x Tiger)

SM


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## Greg Seddon (Jan 7, 2005)

Granddaddy said:


> My interest would be currently competing or still breeding. That would leave out deceased dogs & females too old to breed. I understand there has been a dog or two mentioned who are deceased.


Here is a nice one David and she was just bred recently.

*FC AFC The Tide Ride "Tide"* 
(FC AFC Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow X FC AFC Carolina's Electrik Gypsy)


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Out of curiousity, who was she bred to? a LM bred dog?


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## Greg Seddon (Jan 7, 2005)

stonybrook said:


> Out of curiousity, who was she bred to? a LM bred dog?


*FC Low Country Drake *http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigreecolor.asp?DogNo=78349

Here is Tide's pedigree http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/Asp/viewpedigreecolor.asp?DogNo=86461


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## pafromga (Jul 16, 2006)

Jim Pickering said:


> Unfortunately there is not currently a complete searchable database to research questions like yours David. Good Dog Info has fairly complete data but one cannot search by title. However, you can use the search function on EE and search by title but it will list only the first 100 hits. If you search for FC it indicates there are 665 FCs in the database. If you search for AFC it indicates that there are 458 AFC dogs in the database. If you search for FC AFC there are only 121, but still you can see only the first 100.
> 
> If you happen to know anyone associated with EntryExpress you might talk to them about tweaking the search function. It would be nice to search for FC AFC females with no Lean Mac in her pedigree. You never know but there could be a few retriever folks out there who would actually pay to access such a database. At least fix it so one is able to pull up a complete list of FC and/or AFC dogs then one could spend those cold rainy winter days checking the pedigrees one by one on Good Dog Info.
> 
> In the mean time you can go to Good Dog Info, pull up Code Blue, then his offspring and find the few with the FC and/or AFC that do not have Lean Mac on the other half of the pedigree.



This doesn't answer the original question, but I guess that you would be looking for dog off of Code Blue, Harley, Honcho, or Zip. There is also a bluebill dog out there that produced really nice dogs but is long gone. There may be something else out there but but you are going chocolate and I think all the yellows that are still out there. You have to research hard to find a non-lm dog. You really have to hunt hard to find a dog without LM or harley.
And yes I swore off this website a year or so ago but missed talking and argueing about retrievers way too much.

HAPPY NEW YEARS!
NATE


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Sunny, David's Maronge is no longer being bred.


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

Titled Females w/no Maxx 8 or younger from Gooddoginfo FT stats '07:
FC Blackwater Bebe
AFC Call Me A Little Bit Pricey
FC AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer
AFC Days End Maple Creek Sugar
AFC Riparin Windsong
FC Cosmo's Cookie Cutter
FC AFC Sandman's Ticket
FC Abby's Little Cooper
CNAFC CAFC Moonstones Hug & Moochie
FC Adams Acres Water Lilly
AFC Nebo's Grandma Ruby

Shannon


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## Charlie Hines (Sep 6, 2004)

I have a nice female without any LM in her pedigree -- she has qualified for every National since she was 2, was a Nat'l Open finalist in 2006, has won 22 AA stakes, has 186.5 AA points and was bred last winter to Carbon -- the pups look great - I was going to breed her again to Carbon but was concerned the poor economy would inhibit the placement of the pups

Charlie


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

I don't have access to GDI, but check these if you can:

FC/AFC The Julia Hendrix Experience (AWESOME DOG!!)

FC/AFC World Famous Tellipath (DITTO!!)

I don't know if there is LM in there, but if not, they sure are amazing. Just listing females I know on the west coast that are GREAT.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Karen, are you still out west or home? Did you break anything skiing?


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## tshuntin (Mar 22, 2003)

Charlie Hines said:


> I have a nice female without any LM in her pedigree -- she has qualified for every National since she was 2, was a Nat'l Open finalist in 2006, has won 22 AA stakes, has 186.5 AA points and was bred last winter to Carbon -- the pups look great - I was going to breed her again to Carbon but was concerned the poor economy would inhibit the placement of the pups
> 
> Charlie


Wow Charlie, I bet that is a great litter and I would sure think you could still place the repeat in awesome homes pretty easy. Heck, go ahead with it and I will buy a cheap left over if they dn't all sell easily.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Charlie Hines said:


> I have a nice female without any LM in her pedigree -- she has qualified for every National since she was 2, was a Nat'l Open finalist in 2006, has won 22 AA stakes, has 186.5 AA points and was bred last winter to Carbon -- the pups look great - I was going to breed her again to Carbon but was concerned the poor economy would inhibit the placement of the pups
> 
> Charlie


Brother Charlie... it is definitely tough times when a litter like that is not already sold before the breeding takes place. But i bet those pups, especially a repeat, would not have much trouble selling.

Best of luck.

SM


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

Wiredlabz said:


> I don't have access to GDI, but check these if you can:
> 
> FC/AFC The Julia Hendrix Experience (AWESOME DOG!!)
> 
> ...


Yes they too are LM free. I just didn't add them along with Charlie's female FC AFC Cody with them being 9-10 years old. There are several more in that age range as well, that I didn't consider whelping at that age. 

Hate to sidetrack the thread, but what is the your cut off age of a female having litters? Even with them being in top running condition. I just wouldn't have thought about breeding a female at this age and something going horribly wrong.

Shannon


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Charlie,
No matter the state of the economy it's very rare a bitch with 185.5 points and a multi National qualifier is bred. That's one nice dog you've got there. 
If you worry about placing puppies I'd be very happy to take one no questions asked!


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Pond River Kennels said:


> Yes they too are LM free. I just didn't add them along with Charlie's female FC AFC Cody with them being 9-10 years old. There are several more in that age range as well, that I didn't consider whelping at that age.
> 
> Hate to sidetrack the thread, but what is the your cut off age of a female having litters? Even with them being in top running condition. I just wouldn't have thought about breeding a female at this age and something going horribly wrong.
> 
> Shannon


The cutoff would be if they can't/won't be bred. As I may have mentioned in a follow-up post to clarify my interests are several. First I own and train several young dogs, all are LM dogs and I would like some exposure to some other lines with my next pup. Next, if I ever breed, I would like to be able to consider my own dogs, so I would like to have some balance. If not, I'll try to find a good mate from others dogs among non-LM dogs in some cases. Of course, as for the breeding aspect, while I have young QAA dogs, there's no guarantee they will title (a prequisite for me to breed). This is esp true since my dogs have to overcome their handler's deficiencies but just think of how remarkable the dogs will have to be in that case if they do title at some point).


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## Jim Pickering (Sep 17, 2004)

Granddaddy said:


> Jim, you think maybe a day like today might be one suited for such a task?


Are you suggesting that you have me pegged as a fair weather trainer?  That would be accurate, but I made an exception today. Actually we had just gotten set up when the rain started and with three ladies out throwing the birds I was not about to be the first to cry uncle. Some days you do what you gota do. ;-) 



> And BTW, Jim, congratulations to you & Willie on his fine derby career


Thanks!!


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Jim Pickering said:


> Are you suggesting that you have me pegged as a fair weather trainer?  That would be accurate, but I made an exception today. Actually we had just gotten set up when the rain started and with three ladies out throwing the birds I was not about to be the first to cry uncle. Some days you do what you gota do. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!


Since I've been in all day, it's pretty obvious where my priorities were today.


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

Granddaddy said:


> The cutoff would be if they can't/won't be bred. As I may have mentioned in a follow-up post to clarify my interests are several. First I own and train several young dogs, all are LM dogs and I would like some exposure to some other lines with my next pup. Next, if I ever breed, I would like to be able to consider my own dogs, so I would like to have some balance. If not, I'll try to find a good mate from others dogs among non-LM dogs in some cases. Of course, as for the breeding aspect, while I have young QAA dogs, there's no guarantee they will title (a prequisite for me to breed). This is esp true since my dogs have to overcome their handler's deficiencies but just think of how remarkable the dogs will have to be in that case if they do title at some point).


David, 

My question wasn't really directed towards you and your dog. I totally understand your line of thinking, without reading into it, if you will. Just a general question to all if they have an age cutoff, no matter what, to be to old to breed. 

Could elaberate more, but I'll stop the sidetrack there,
Shannon


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

Granddaddy said:


> Karen, are you still out west or home? Did you break anything skiing?


Ahaha  Nope, I'm still good, although I got a sore hip from falling alot on one side...conditions weren't so great for skiing the first few days...alot of ICE and rain, so there were alot of wipeouts! But a GREAT trip and my first experience of -25 degrees! Brrrrrr!!!!

Flew back last night, picked up the boys today and ready to get back out in the field!!!


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

Pond River Kennels said:


> David,
> 
> My question wasn't really directed towards you and your dog. I totally understand your line of thinking, without reading into it, if you will. Just a general question to all if they have an age cutoff, no matter what, to be to old to breed.
> 
> ...


 
I have no idear how old those dogs are...and I don't know too much about breeding either. He asked about females without LM and I thought those were too that were titled, ones that I've seen run and are all around great dogs. I know they have been bred, so depending on who they were bred to, maybe their pups are doing well and were not bred to a LM stud either. Worth some checking into though!


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## reggie (Jun 7, 2004)

FC/AFC Crow Rivers Cougars Mad Max
AFC Gabros Pepper (fe)


both LM "free" and still running/breeding

ga


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Some may not still be competing (or breeding age females as some were 8-9 years on Good Dog). May not be top in points (but any titled Non-Lean Mac is worth listing IMO.

FC-AFC WATUAGA'S BULL GATOR 
FC Butch's Dream Code of TCR 
FC Fourleaf's Ice Breaker 
FC Big Bucks Badger
FC Caprock's Cool Hand Luke
FC-AFC Fat City Pacer
FC Bee-Line-Butch
FC TROUBLSOME HIGHSEA'S JACQUES 
FC-AFC Candlewood's Ruffian
FC-AFC Real Southern Gentleman
FC Nick of Time Dig in Digger
AFC LARS HARMONY N' BLUES 
FC-AFC AKSARBEN'S BLACK SMOKE 
CFC GUNNER FLIGHT INTERCEPTOR 
FC-AFC Field of Dreams I'm a Winner
AFC Coolwater's Ready to Go
FC-AFC-CFC RPM FORGER 


FC-AFC EVA-ETHEL PROBY-WEBER 
FC-AFC Greenwing Bright Eyes
FC-AFC Hightest Black Ty Affair
FC Woody Creek's Poetic Justice
FC-AFC WINDY CITY'S SECRET SIGNAL 
FC-AFC Jolie Gatlin
FC-AFC WINDIGOS KALAMITY KATE


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

FC Nick of Time Dig in Digger, owned by Gerry Strong, on Dave Ward's truck
I've trained with Digger for years. He's a really nice field dog, good looking, and temperament wise a sweetie. He's a full brother to Ranger, passes yellow and has all his certs. CNM and EIC clear. He's one of those titled dogs that should be bred more but is overlooked.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

About 70 dogs included so far. Any other nice titled dogs without Lean Mac in the pedigree that are capable of breeding?


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> About 70 dogs included so far. Any other nice titled dogs without Lean Mac in the pedigree that are capable of breeding?


Interesting observation with all the current line breeding on Lean-Mac of late. There were not as many Line-bred Lean Mac dogs with FC-AFC titles as I expected to see (looking at '07 statistical data in Good Dog and the Feb issue of RFTN). But LM was there at least once in the first three generations or distant line breeding) or known successful crosses with LM.

It will be very interesting to see David's new data in Good Dog for '08' and the Feb RFTN and see if "line-bred" Lean Mac dogs are titling with more frequency, and also what lines continue to nick well with LM.

(yes I admit it..I am a pedigree junkie)


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## Greg Seddon (Jan 7, 2005)

Granddaddy said:


> About 70 dogs included so far. Any other nice titled dogs without Lean Mac in the pedigree that are capable of breeding?


David here is another one owned by Jerry & Barb Younglove *FC AFC Adams Acres Muddy Creek "Cree"* (D.O.B. 2003)
http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigreecolor.asp?DogNo=81052


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

Greg Seddon said:


> David here is another one owned by Jerry & Barb Younglove *FC AFC Adams Acres Muddy Creek "Cree"* (D.O.B. 2003)
> http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigreecolor.asp?DogNo=81052


Greg,

Do you know if he has ever been bred?


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

reggie said:


> FC/AFC Crow Rivers Cougars Mad Max
> AFC Gabros Pepper (fe)
> 
> 
> ...



Both awesome dogs owned by a great FT guy and are bred to each other!!!!


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

I forgot to add I think they are both qualified for the 2009 National Am in MN.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

YardleyLabs said:


> Greg,
> 
> Do you know if he has ever been bred?


I'm talking to Jerry today about possibly breeding to him, so I'll have that answer by tonight, hopefully. 
I've not seen him run, but I met him when he was a derby dog. I do know that he has two titled littermates and all dogs in the first two generations of his pedigree are titled.


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## RodneyB46 (Dec 18, 2008)

Pond River Kennels said:


> FC AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer
> 
> 
> Shannon


i could be wrong,but i am pretty sure she was spayed.i spoke with ted the owner,because i was courious if he was planning on breeding her out of intrest in a pup.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Tommy...Old GD, for a sip of somethin' different.

MG


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

I think this dog qualifies under your criteria as he is QAA and still breeding, if not still running: E-Z's Mikey Likes It MH***. John and I really like the dog and have done our second breeding to him (sorry, but the bitch is a Lean Mac granddaughter). Mikey is a son of FC-AFC Topbrass Tornado, who is by NAFC-FC Trumarc's Zip Code out of FC-AFC Topbrass Mindy. His dam is sired by Boo's Black Boomerang MH, who is a double grandson of Super Powder.

Nice dog, unusual pedigree; I'd like to see him used more.

Amy Dahl


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## choclabs (Sep 7, 2005)

I am curious as to how small the list would be if NO Lean Mac and NO Candlewood's were the criteria????

Or if it was a just a no Candlewood's filter applied to the database?

Probably 2 very short lists would result!

Anyone care to comment

Michael Watson


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

There are only about 70 dogs on the list. Several of those are spay/neutered or too old to breed (two are dead) and for several I can find no evidence they have ever been used for breeding (may be good reasons or just overlooked). My intended filters will be health & cert related. That alone should pare this already short list down.

To your question, remove Candlewood dogs and there is likely no list at all. Just removing Lottie or her sire would dramatically reduce the list.

But I bet you have a line of dogs in mind............??


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

frontier said:


> Yes
> 
> *This is a great post to get folks to look at the "popular sire syndrome" and "bottlenecking on a line" from a different perspective.* Lean Mac has the influence now that Honcho had in FT lines a while back.


What perspective is that ???????

john


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