# How About Sharing Tips on Becoming A Better Handler



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

I have been slowly but surely consolidating my handling notes. My most recent task has been redoing my notes from my seminar with Pat Burns in Bristol a month ago. 

I thought it might be interesting if each of us put down a tip that we have used to improve our handling.

I will start. 

When I began running Field Trials, there was just too much information for me to process. So I tried to streamline that information and just put a few key phrases on a 3x5 card, which I reviewed in the truck, and then again when I was waiting in the holding blind for my number to be called. 

So my tip: Use a 3x5 card to list just a few key things that you want to focus on when you come to the line.

Ted


----------



## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Knowing the weaknesses and be prepare to react.


----------



## CashCat (Apr 15, 2015)

Tip: Cast slower (Count 1..2..3.. Cast)


----------



## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

"There are two sides of every line to a blind. One of them is bad."


----------



## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

Over and off the point or back to the truck..


----------



## John Montenieri (Jul 6, 2009)

Ted, for the longest time I used your 3x5 idea. Helped me focus. Pulled it out in the holding blind before I ran. The biggest thing I've learned is to watch the dog's eyes, not necessarily their heads. Head could be still eyes could be moving.


----------



## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

One of the thinngs I learned was to carefully watch and learn from other handlers. Especially those who I thought were better than me (which was most, lol).


----------



## motor-vater (Oct 28, 2013)

Dave Rorem DVD's


----------



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Slow down


----------



## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

As I get to the line I look for something fairly close on line to the blind or marks, a rock, clump of grass,not the end of the blind or the full distance to the bird. Helps me get a better initial line. First and foremost is SLOW DOWN. Been beat into me, but still not enough at times.


----------



## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

CashCat said:


> Tip: Cast slower (Count 1..2..3.. Cast)


And be cognizant to not cast faster (keep consistent timing of casts throughout the blind) as the dog approaches the blind (when we generally need the most control). Counting to 5 after each whistle sit is what was suggested to me.


----------



## Rnd (Jan 21, 2012)

motor-vater said:


> Dave Rorem DVD's



My take away from that DVD was "Don't be a spectator " a long with that train of thought it was also brought to my attention that if I thought the dog was going to do X ( jump behind bush, get out of water, etc.) most likely the dog will...... act don't wait.....


----------



## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Keep your mind "in the zone" the whole time your dog is working. Mentally run every step your dog is taking in your head while your dog is doing it physically. I can't tell you how many times I've seen handlers lose that focus to talk to somebody for a second, and it seems the second they do, the dog messes up. Keep the connection.


----------



## Beanboots (Apr 5, 2014)

Look sharp,play sharp. Pivot on it but do not move your left foot!


----------



## JDogger (Feb 2, 2003)

A few years ago I went to the line in a master test. The birds went down, left, right, center deep flyer. I kicked my dog off on the center go bird (flyer). I took my eyes off of the dog for an instant to find the right hand outside bird. I looked back and he had popped. (On the flyer no less). I thought "Oh ****..we're done...
Then I realized both judges were turned around talking to the next handler and the very close gallery. 

I quickly brought my hand up to my chest and gave a silent cast. He went and picked up the flyer. The outside birds were no problem. He one whistled the blind. PASS ...

Remember, be you judge or handler.... never take your eyes off of the dog.

Luck happens regards, JD


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Handling is not a spectator sport.

/Paul


----------



## JDogger (Feb 2, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Handling is not a spectator sport.
> 
> /Paul


Of course it is. All of RTF is a spectator sport.

Que no??


----------



## djansma (Aug 26, 2004)

Practice In a mirror so you now the casts you are really giving not the one you think you are
David Jansma


----------



## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

Know your dog and its body language. As soon as I see my dog's shoulder drop, I know she is changing direction and I blow the whistle. Do not wait, as soon as you read the intent, correct the dogs line. The longer they stay on the wrong line the more they want to continue. So be ready to hit the whistle, always have air in your lungs.
But mostly learn to read YOUR dog.


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Watch the dog as the marks fall. Slow w/ my fast pup & calm.


----------



## Cat (Oct 13, 2015)

Video your training sessions, watch them and make notes. What and when you think you did something may not actually be 'what' you did...


----------



## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

1. All blinds have a start , middle and end - handle with care.

2. Fast dog handle slow , slow dog handle fast.

3. Watch your competition and how they handle or mishandle their dogs starting from entering the last holding blind to their exiting the competitive line. Attempt to take the best and apply it to your dog.


----------



## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

You paid your money to enter. That mat or starting line is yours. Own it ! By that I mean take every inch of it that gives you and your dog the best opportunities to do either marks or blinds. 
Be the leader of the team


----------



## Bill McKnight (Sep 11, 2014)

Building on Chads comment. Use the mat to open up the field when things are tight...step towards danger. 

Ronan Bill


----------



## Jeff Brezee (Nov 21, 2012)

To expand on slowing down:
When your dog returns with a mark, give them time to settle down and "lock in" on the next one before you send them again.


----------



## Carol Cassity (Aug 19, 2004)

Slow down. The handler should be precise, don't be sloppy. Give crisp casts and hold them a moment or two


----------



## Dave Kress (Dec 20, 2004)

Great thread to help Ted 

Just yesterday this happened to me 

We were out, weather was great and a nice day 
As usual I had a lot of stuff going on and when I brought the big dog up. 
I was not ready mentally and just sort of went thru the motions. 
We didn't do well 

This has happened before so the lesson is be focused or leave the dog in the truck. 
Dk


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2008)

remember, it's not an experiment


----------



## Jerry S. (May 18, 2009)

In training I like to bring my dog top the line, sit him, and let him survey the gunners for approx. ten seconds. Then I will show him the long gun, push or pull to the middle gun, cue easy if it's retired, and not even point him to the go bird. Then redirect to the long gun.
The best handling point I can share is that when the dog returns on a multiple and after he sits, keep the bird in his mouth as he looks out where the next bird to be picked up is. Let him sit there for at least five seconds with the bird in his mouth before removing it. Send with the bird in your hand, don't chuck it behind or to the side.
Another good handling tip is to vary the time your hand is over the dog's head before you release him. So many dogs are in tune to leaving almost as soon as they notice the hand over head. Sometimes I will wait two seconds and will vary the time up to approx. eight seconds.


----------



## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

The "First Look", which I also learned from a Pat Burns seminar. On multiples, make sure you are ready to precisely line your dog up for the next mark. Where the dog first looks when it comes back to the line and sits is probably where it is going to go. If you do a bunch of re-lining and pushes and pulls after the dog has returned and sits, you are likely to fail in getting the dog to slam the next bird you are sending for.


----------



## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I used to have a 3X5 card like Ted. I had it laminated and taped to the underside of the bill on my baseball cap. Looks like I need to find it and start using again.
Post videos of you running your dog on rtf. 
Jerry S., Your first tip is very good but only applies to FT. It will get you as a minimum a warning or maybe tossed out in a AKC HT.


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

wetdog said:


> The "First Look", which I also learned from a Pat Burns seminar. On multiples, make sure you are ready to precisely line your dog up for the next mark. Where the dog looks when it comes back to the line and sits is probably where it is going to go. If you do a bunch of re-lining and pushes and pulls after the dog has returned and sits, you are likely to fail in getting the dog to slam the next bird you are sending for.



Dave 

Nice run at the National. What do you do to get a good "First Look"?

Ted


----------



## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

Thanks Ted, Kitty had a good run also! The tests were really well conceived, very tight and TOUGH--right from the 1st series, so Kitty making it to the 7th as a young dog was impressive. Abby was really clean through the 7th and then I hit a bump in the quad on the 8th. I had a picture of how I wanted to run the quad, picking the short retired up second, but she really locked on the right flier when she came in (I failed at getting the "first look"). I tried pulling her off it, but no way. I got a bit flustered and sent for the flier she wanted, but didn't line her well....ended up being a big hunt cause the gunners were really riding the bird out. I found out in an open national vs. an amateur national, I think you have to be even more perfect to get carried.

Anyway to answer your question, when the dog is on the way back with a bird, I treat the next mark like a blind. I draw a picture of the line to the mark as you would a blind and then pick something close like a rock or grass clump to quickly align the dog's spine without having to look out at the mark again. I have my body position already set so I can have the dog aligned when it sits and hopefully not have to move her again before the send. I do not take the bird until the dog's head and eyes are locked where the mark is, just like locking a dog onto the line to a blind before you send. It is all about having the dog come in, sit and look out at the next mark without looking around at other things. He showed us how you can influence a dog (like a push/pull) by simply which side of the dog's head you take the bird from. Take it from the left side and the dog will probably shade left when it leaves the line and visa versa.

One other tip and I have used it since you suggested it to me, I go to the line knowing I can be successful, rather than hoping to be successful as in the past. I think the dog can read that in you.


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Bill McKnight said:


> Use the mat to open up the field when things are tight...step towards danger.
> 
> Bill


Bill 

Would you expand on this?

Ted


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

wetdog said:


> I go to the line knowing I can be successful, rather than hoping to be successful as in the past. I think the dog can read that in you.


Someone once said (I have forgotten who), "Hope is the crutch of the bad handler."


----------



## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

wetdog said:


> Anyway to answer your question, when the dog is on the way back with a bird, I treat the next mark like a blind. I draw a picture of the line to the mark as you would a blind and then pick something close like a rock or grass clump to quickly align the dog's spine without having to look out at the mark again. I have my body position already set so I can have the dog aligned when it sits and hopefully not have to move her again before the send. I do not take the bird until the dog's head and eyes are locked where the mark is, just like locking a dog onto the line to a blind before you send. It is all about having the dog come in, sit and look out at the next mark without looking around at other things. He showed us how you can influence a dog (like a push/pull) by simply which side of the dog's head you take the bird from. Take it from the left side and the dog will probably shade left when it leaves the line and visa versa.


This is terrific advice, but how do you translate this to a water series where your dog shakes after your remove the bird. I've conditioned my dog not to shake the water off until after he's come to heel and then remove the bird. Dog shakes and we re-align. Is there a "trick" or something I should be training differently to get the alignment to the next bird if the dog wants to shake off?


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Wayne Nutt said:


> I used to have a 3X5 card like Ted. I had it laminated and taped to the underside of the bill on my baseball cap. Looks like I need to find it and start using again.
> .


What did you have written on your 3 x 5 card?


----------



## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

Peter, my dog shakes after I take the bird also. I have found that if you have the dog locked on the next mark, they will shake and immediately sit focused on the bird you have locked them onto. I think I got that part just from having a standard that the dog does not mess around after you take the bird. When my dog was younger, she got a sit/nick if she didn't immediately sit and look for the next bird. Just lately (from Pat) I learned to be precise about the alignment when they sit. So I guess I wouldn't worry about the shaking. I can tell you though, I do know people that do not allow the dog to shake. Return from water, sit, take the bird (no shaking) and send. They accomplished this with a low level sit/burn at the mat if the dog tried to shake. I am no expert, but if the dog is locked on the next mark before you take the bird and it shakes, it will re-lock on the bird on it's own.


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

No matter what your dog does, turn to the judges and say, "Wasn't that great!"


----------



## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

BJGatley said:


> Knowing the weaknesses and be prepare to react.


Or is it : knowing the weaknesses, and be prepared to ACT


----------



## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Good advice from wetdog (Dave) and Ted. Three additional thoughts:

1, Dog comes in wet w/bird, have sit , looking out at the next bird , than take the bird from the dog, allow dog to shake, dog realigns...practice makes perfect thru conditioning.

2. When coming to the line from the holding blind always attempt to have your dog looking at the bird you think is critical. There are many ways to the line without being obvious.

3. I also had a natural marker who did not need my help nor want it on marks. We made a deal he does the marks his way and he follows me on blinds.We ended up with no hand down for either -- only talk ,good,here , okay, freeze-shuddered-release. Special dogs do not conform to cookie-cutter instruction.


----------



## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Scott Adams said:


> No matter what your dog does, turn to the judges and say, "Wasn't that great!"


That is great! I find this very funny!


----------



## Frank G (Feb 18, 2013)

The best advice that I've gotten on water blinds came from a judge after running a blind in a trial. I fought the dog a little to get her to the right and back on line. Her advice was "slow down and _give the dog time to change her mind_".

i think it's very easy for a lot of us to throw the cast out there too quickly on water blinds because things are happening so much more slowly than on land. It took me a while to figure out that I needed to let the dog get completely turned around and then pause before casting.


----------



## barbless (Aug 9, 2015)

I'm a beginner and most of the time I have no idea what my body is doing. I have experienced trainers critique me to understand what I'm doing wrong. 
At this point it is apparent that my dog has more talent then I do and succeeds in-spite of me. If we are to succeed in the future I will need to pickup my game and this post is a big help.


----------



## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

These are the things written on my 3X5 card:
1. Pick rock, stick or clump of grass for line guide. 
2. Slow down (4-8 sec) before
3. Hands on chest
4. Watch dog on marks
5. Line up for next
6. Don't look away.

Some of these are cryptic. Like no. 5, meaning line up for next mark when the dog is on the way back from a retrieve. No. 2 meaning two things: before releasing for a mark or casting after a sit whistle on a blind. No. 1, immediately in front of you. 4. Watch dog on marks not bird. But Dennis says take a quick peek.


----------



## rboudet (Jun 29, 2004)

When coming out of the holding blind and before you get to the line walk slowly and try to allow the dog to pick out the guns on their own, especially a key bird that might be set up in a different direction from the other stations.


----------



## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Peter Balzer said:


> This is terrific advice, but how do you translate this to a water series where your dog shakes after your remove the bird. I've conditioned my dog not to shake the water off until after he's come to heel and then remove the bird. Dog shakes and we re-align. Is there a* "trick"* or something I should be training differently to get the alignment to the next bird if the dog wants to shake off?


Treat the next mark just like a land mark. Be lined up yourself before he gets to you. Let him shake and redevelop his picture while at heel lined up where you want him. I feel your body position is the most important part of this.


----------



## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Carol Cassity said:


> *Slow down*. The handler should be precise, don't be sloppy. *Give crisp casts *and hold them a moment or two


last week, after a cast, pat burns advised me to "slow down" a bit. 

the next time i sat the dog, i waited a four count and eased my left arm up for the cast.

pat laughed and said, "john don't take slow down so literally. slow down, but still make a crisp cast!"


----------



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

wetdog said:


> Thanks Ted, Kitty had a good run also! The tests were really well conceived, very tight and TOUGH--right from the 1st series, so Kitty making it to the 7th as a young dog was impressive. Abby was really clean through the 7th and then I hit a bump in the quad on the 8th. I had a picture of how I wanted to run the quad, picking the short retired up second, but she really locked on the right flier when she came in (I failed at getting the "first look"). I tried pulling her off it, but no way. I got a bit flustered and sent for the flier she wanted, but didn't line her well....ended up being a big hunt cause the gunners were really riding the bird out. I found out in an open national vs. an amateur national, I think you have to be even more perfect to get carried.
> 
> Anyway to answer your question, when the dog is on the way back with a bird, I treat the next mark like a blind. I draw a picture of the line to the mark as you would a blind and then pick something close like a rock or grass clump to quickly align the dog's spine without having to look out at the mark again. I have my body position already set so I can have the dog aligned when it sits and hopefully not have to move her again before the send. I do not take the bird until the dog's head and eyes are locked where the mark is, just like locking a dog onto the line to a blind before you send. It is all about having the dog come in, sit and look out at the next mark without looking around at other things. He showed us how you can influence a dog (like a push/pull) by simply which side of the dog's head you take the bird from. Take it from the left side and the dog will probably shade left when it leaves the line and visa versa.
> 
> One other tip and I have used it since you suggested it to me, I go to the line knowing I can be successful, rather than hoping to be successful as in the past. I think the dog can read that in you.


I too am a Pat Burns student. The big key is the above, the biggest to me is to not let them LOOK where you don't want them to go. "Here, here good" send them. Don't let them start scanning the field, WORK on the first look! Don't turn away from your dog to hand off a bird until after kicking the dog off.


----------



## Joe Kuczynski (Jul 10, 2008)

I've found Jack Gwaltney's book to be very focusing. I read it cover to cover in the "off" season and read the section about running marks and running blinds before every trial. They're my index cards.


----------



## Bill McKnight (Sep 11, 2014)

Re post #24 &34: Not easy to do with just words. A picture would be better. So, I will describe a common but simple example. First, this assumes the handler knows what danger is in the context of the set up. I find this is actually the hardest part.....understanding, identifing and reacting to danger such as going back to an old fall. 
MARKS, gun station far left throws left about 350 yards out, right station about 150 yards out throws left, flier in the middle almost directly behind the right station and in line with the fall of the right gun about 225 yards out. Throws/shoots left. Order of fall....right short, left long, middle flier. Right and left guns retire. So, how do you get the short check down in line with the flier station after picking up the flier? Flier station up check down retired . DANGER in this situation is blowing through the check down heading back to the flier (wind blowing left to right so dog does not smell check down on way to flier) SO,AFTER THE DOG PICKS UP FLIER STEP TOWARDS THE FLIER (danger returning to flier) TO LINE YOUR DOG UP ON THE CHECK DOWN AND AWAY FROM THE FLIER STATION. This not only opens the field up but might help your dog with the wind.

Hope this helps. The biggest problem is understanding where the danger is......especially if you are the first to run.

Ronan Bill


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

stonybrook said:


> And be cognizant to not cast faster (keep consistent timing of casts throughout the blind) as the dog approaches the blind (when we generally need the most control). Counting to 5 after each whistle sit is what was suggested to me.


 
Five seems a bit long to me. I think that as you progress, you will discover that there is no magic wait time before casting. It is matter of rhythm, where that dog is at, at a particular moment in time. Sometimes, it changes during a blind. But, most inexperienced handlers cast too quickly. So perhaps a three count is needed when you start.


----------



## Chad Baker (Feb 5, 2003)

One of the best blind handlers in my mind is Chris Ledford nothing he does is orthodoxed at all.
CB


----------



## Karen Klotthor (Jul 21, 2011)

No one mentioned, Breath and breath some more.


----------



## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Great idea for a thread.

Know that your dog will probably do what other dogs before you have done in the running order.


----------



## Jerry S. (May 18, 2009)

John Lash said:


> Great idea for a thread.
> 
> Know that your dog will probably do what other dogs before you have done in the running order.


My guess is that may be why Danny lost Babe in the National a few weeks ago.


----------



## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

If you need cards in the blind your already behind the ball.....train...train...train...then visualize every step for that series. Learn to run your dogs!! Randy


----------



## Bill Cummins Jr. (Aug 2, 2011)

Great Thread ! Way to Go Ted ! Thanks! to All
One great place to learn,and observe is the Judge's Chair. Watched Bobby George on a Quad with a Long Retired Bird, come to the line each time and say "Mark it", other 3 marks were just "Mark"
Dogs really cued in on the difference. 
As said before "Slow Down"

Bill


----------



## MissSkeeter (May 17, 2013)

In training, insist on a change of direction after each whistle sit.
In training, carry the cast, don't challenge the blind.
In training, repeat the same literal cast after a cast refusal.

In tests, challenge the blind, stay in the blind corridor.

In tests, do not repeat the same literal cast after a cast refusal...
do something different...wait longer, exagerate the cast, etc.
Dave Rorem preaches 2 cast refusals in a row = beginning of a bad blind


----------



## Lynn Hanigan (Dec 14, 2007)

It is impossible to correctly or accurately line a dog if you are waving your hand at the back of his head.
Learn to heel him properly!


----------



## LarryYT (Nov 19, 2015)

Lynn Hanigan said:


> It is impossible to correctly or accurately line a dog if you are waving your hand at the back of his head.
> Learn to heel him properly!


couldn't agree more


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Bill McKnight said:


> Re post #24 &34: Not easy to do with just words. A picture would be better. So, I will describe a common but simple example. First, this assumes the handler knows what danger is in the context of the set up. I find this is actually the hardest part.....understanding, identifing and reacting to danger such as going back to an old fall.
> MARKS, gun station far left throws left about 350 yards out, right station about 150 yards out throws left, flier in the middle almost directly behind the right station and in line with the fall of the right gun about 225 yards out. Throws/shoots left. Order of fall....right short, left long, middle flier. Right and left guns retire. So, how do you get the short check down in line with the flier station after picking up the flier? Flier station up check down retired . DANGER in this situation is blowing through the check down heading back to the flier (wind blowing left to right so dog does not smell check down on way to flier) SO,AFTER THE DOG PICKS UP FLIER STEP TOWARDS THE FLIER (danger returning to flier) TO LINE YOUR DOG UP ON THE CHECK DOWN AND AWAY FROM THE FLIER STATION. This not only opens the field up but might help your dog with the wind.
> 
> Hope this helps. The biggest problem is understanding where the danger is......especially if you are the first to run.
> ...


Great tip Bill. Thanks.
More often than not, everybody wants to watch the test dog intently, to see what the pitfalls are for the dog. Then they walk away.
In a National, most handlers make an effort to get on the mat and make a plan. Get down to the dogs level.
I think these National handlers are amongst the few that do this at weekend trials.
Especially important for those who are less experienced.


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Watch the dog as the marks fall. Slow w/ my fast pup & calm.


Once you get good at this, work on using your peripheral vision so that you can watch both the dog and the bird at the same time.


----------



## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Ted is it true that a dog can see his tail with his peripherial vision?


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Wayne Nutt said:


> Ted is it true that a dog can see his tail with his peripherial vision?



I don't know. But, I do think that they can see your hand above their head without your needing to shove it between their eyes.


----------



## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

I have run many Fts and quite a few HTs (these long ago!), as well as Nationals (both HT & FT), and I can honestly say that the majority of trials I run, I walk away having made a handling mistake. Some of them repeatedly! My dogs are good enough to overcome these mistakes sometimes, or I would become suicidal, because in the intense quality of competition I run, handler errors are often fatal.

This is a great thread, and handlers, train your own dogs or at least run them in training as often as possible if they are with a pro. And somehow save your pennies and go to a handler seminar. We never stop learning or improving!

These are the 2 mistakes that I observe in other handlers most often:

1. At the mat, watching the birds go down instead of the dog. Your priority is making sure the dog sees the birds, or knowing if he missed one. And Ted means "peripheral" vision (if you feel the need to see the the bird go down); that quick glance up at the bird (not peripheral!) may be the fraction of a second that your dog looks away.

2. When handling, especially on blinds, waiting far too long to blow the whistle. And this is not just a matter of anticipation of danger (a skill requiring experience), but of reacting when a dog starts to get into trouble. At long distances, the "corridor" is wider, but it takes longer for the whistle sound to get out there. At short distances the corridor is much narrower & getting off line can cause the blindwork to unravel quickly. 

And to repeat: if you are serious about competing or just having fun with the sweet taste of improving and having success as a team, scrape together those pennies and attend a handling seminar; you will never regret it. 

Connie


----------



## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Ted Shih said:


> Once you get good at this, work on using your peripheral vision so that you can watch both the dog and the bird at the same time.


 Thanks Ted!!


----------



## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

The day I realized that *I* needed as much training as my dog was pivotal for me. Still working on it.


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Connie Swanson said:


> And somehow save your pennies and go to a handler seminar. We never stop learning or improving!
> 
> ****
> 
> ...



I echo what Connie said about seminars. I try to attend one each year. It keeps me fresh. I have attended seminars with Judy Aycock, Pat Burns, Danny Farmer, Mike Lardy, Dave Rorem, and Kenny Trott - and learned from each seminar.


----------



## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

Things started to change for me when:

After sitting on a bucket for two hours throwing ducks I didn't need to ask "how are we running this?"

When I learned to reward my dogs for giving me the cast I asked of them in training.

When I started lining my dogs up for where the bird fell or was going to land instead of at the gun station

When I learned that my dogs do a much better job lining themselves up for the next mark/blind when I take the time to do so myself before they return


----------



## BOtterness (Jul 12, 2012)

Watch the dog on the way back from the mark; they will usually tell you which bird they want next, and you can be ready before they get back to the mat if you need to change your game plan. 
Read the dog and work as a team--you each have a plan on how the marks are going to be run, so work together.


----------



## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

When it's warm I like to carry a water bottle with me to the holding blind. Besides the obvious hydration wet the dogs mouth and nose before running to help them scent better.


----------



## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Tony Marshall said:


> When it's warm I like to carry a water bottle with me to the holding blind. Besides the obvious hydration wet the dogs mouth and nose before running to help them scent better.


Very good idea!


----------



## Bill McKnight (Sep 11, 2014)

Like Connie I can't count the number of times I have made mistakes on line.......meaning I knew what to do but didn't. Just one example : I lined my dog up, after signaling for the birds, on the WRONG BIRD for all three marks of a triple. That is impossible to do even if you tried. I had watched the set up from the gallery for two hours before going to the line. Fortunately, I was running Ham, she pinned all three marks.....much to mine and everyone else's suprise.

So my training tip: have a dog that is smarter than you.

Ronan Bill


----------



## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Video yourself with the dog and critique critically.Rather than watching a video of someone else with their dog.


----------



## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Bill McKnight said:


> Like Connie I can't count the number of times I have made mistakes on line.......meaning I knew what to do but didn't. Just one example : I lined my dog up, after signaling for the birds, on the WRONG BIRD for all three marks of a triple. That is impossible to do even if you tried. I had watched the set up from the gallery for two hours before going to the line. Fortunately, I was running Ham, she pinned all three marks.....much to mine and everyone else's suprise.
> 
> So my training tip: have a dog that is smarter than you.
> 
> Ronan Bill


You have no idea how much better I feel knowing someone else has done this! Of all my failings, this made me feel the most hopeless !! Thanks!


----------



## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

As a handler mark the flyer, all the other birds go to the same spot, the flyer does not.

Handle the dog when it needs to be handled, Even if it's the first bird. Don't let it get ugly, when it's getting ugly, your losing control and your dogs losing memory. Probably not standard in FTs, where most handles put you out but in HT's just get it done, one series at a time, and let the judges judge.

Always Finish the Blind, this is when the bird is in the dogs mouth and he's heading back .

This is a team sport, be a handler not an observer.

I like to make a plan on what I think my dog will most likely do...then throw it out the window when my girls decide they're not going to do it that way. Best piece of advise you can try to negotiate for a better way, you can train the dog a better way but when your on the line and it comes down to it don't fight the dog.


----------



## Wade Thurman (Jul 4, 2005)

I agree with this statement 100% Until you have watched yourself on tape you can not begin to explain how helpful it is. 



polmaise said:


> Video yourself with the dog and critique critically.Rather than watching a video of someone else with their dog.


----------



## Bill Cummins Jr. (Aug 2, 2011)

Wayne Nutt said:


> Ted is it true that a dog can see his tail with his peripherial vision?


 I believe I read on here one time, that a dog's field of vision is between 240-260 degrees.


----------



## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

Wade said:


> I agree with this statement 100% Until you have watched yourself on tape you can not begin to explain how helpful it is.


Amen to that! I train with my husband. I can't tell you how many times we would critique each other and argue over whether one of us wasn't lined up properly or blew the whistle too late. Videoing each other has brought peace back into the kingdom, lol.


----------



## James Hurst (Jul 15, 2012)

After reading this thread, I think I am ready to go


----------



## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Ted Shih said:


> I don't know. But, I do think that they can see your hand above their head without your needing to shove it between their eyes.


Ted

We have had this argument before. There is no way a dog can see your hand if it is outside his peripheral vision and behind his head. Yes the dog may sense your hand and presence and cadence but after you have taught a dog to not be distracted by your hand, why in the world would you not use it properly for confirmation and presence?

When judging, I believe I see well over 75% of dogs if not 85% that do not see their handlers hand down!!

You shouldn't shove it between their eyes either!

Regards _​_


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> Ted
> 
> We have had this argument before. There is no way a dog can see your hand if it is outside his peripheral vision and behind his head. Yes the dog may sense your hand and presence and cadence but after you have taught a dog to not be distracted by your hand, why in the world would you not use it properly for confirmation and presence?
> 
> ...



Good to hear from you Dennis. Above a dog's head is not behind a dog's head. And I still believe that the hand above the dog's head provides confirmation.


----------



## Northern Skies (Sep 17, 2010)

Ted Shih said:


> I echo what Connie said about seminars. I try to attend one each year. It keeps me fresh. I have attended seminars with Judy Aycock, Pat Burns, Danny Farmer, Mike Lardy, Dave Rorem, and Kenny Trott - and learned from each seminar.


I have found this thread very useful and would like to attend a handling seminar. Where do you find out about upcoming seminars? I recall seeing one listed a year ago under the "Events" tab. Is there another source that lists what seminars are coming up? 
Thanks
Lorraine


----------



## Jeff Brezee (Nov 21, 2012)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> Ted
> 
> We have had this argument before. There is no way a dog can see your hand if it is outside his peripheral vision and behind his head. Yes the dog may sense your hand and presence and cadence but after you have taught a dog to not be distracted by your hand, why in the world would you not use it properly for confirmation and presence?
> 
> ...


I notice this a lot too. Many handlers sending their dogs with their hands behind their dogs' heads. I also see some handlers with their hands practically on their dogs noses! The hand isn't to line up the dog, that is what heel and here is for (also verbal cues like "good") The hand, I believe, is a sight cue that the dog is about to be sent. Practice on your self, when can you see your hand over your sight window?


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Northern Skies said:


> I have found this thread very useful and would like to attend a handling seminar. Where do you find out about upcoming seminars? I recall seeing one listed a year ago under the "Events" tab. Is there another source that lists what seminars are coming up?
> Thanks
> Lorraine



Judy, Danny, and Pat are having a seminar in Anderson, Texas in January. I was going to go, but owe my wife a trip to Hawaii.  You could contact Sylvia McClure (Jollydog here) about specific dates. I doubt that there are any handling spots open, but observers are probably available. 

Pat's website is http://www.eliteretrievers.com/. You can check there for other seminar dates. Dave's website is http://www.roremretrievers.com/handlingseminars.html. Linda Ann Bozeman will have information on any seminars in 2016. I don't think Mike Lardy has any seminars (which are more focused on training than handling) http://www.totalretriever.com/index.php/workshops/workshops-home. ​I don't think that Kenny has anything planned, either. 

Ted


----------



## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

I just finished reading this thread. The initial intent was to see if anyone suggested an approach that has proven to be very useful (for me). It took 75 posts before Polmaise's post.

_"Video yourself with the dog and critique critically.....rather than watching a video of someone else with their dog."_ 

The important step in viewing "the work" is learning to do the critical critique. This thread provides several areas to think about. 

It is simple to dismiss the video approach with "I don't have the time or money to do that" or one can continue with cloudy perspectives and mediocre skills. 

And if there is difficulty in identifying the "issues" have someone view the "visual facts" with you. Once the effort is made, "notes cards" with a plan and supporting 
rationale may be more effective. Being able to teach is NOT a given skill.


----------



## Linda4008 (Nov 17, 2015)

When lining up my dog, I have my foot pointed to where the line to the blind is. Than I don't have to keep looking up at the blind and back to the dog, while I'm lining him up. I agree looking at the eyes and not the head. The head could be still and the eye darting around looking the wrong way.


----------



## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Kwick, You missed post #31. I have another video brewing that shows my corrections from my Cowtown Training day video. I have filmed but will download to youtube tonight.


----------



## Cat (Oct 13, 2015)

KwickLabs said:


> I just finished reading this thread. The initial intent was to see if anyone suggested an approach that has proven to be very useful (for me). It took 75 posts before Polmaise's post.
> 
> _"Video yourself with the dog and critique critically.....rather than watching a video of someone else with their dog."_
> 
> ...


^^^^
Good post, did mention it in post #21 as well: _"Video your training sessions, watch them and make notes..."

_Gorilla stands for your smartphones or camera are very inexpensive, you can attach or set them up on almost anything including trees. 

There are also a number of apps for phone or PC for slow motion playing your videos that will let you break down exactly how you and your dog are performing.


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Linda4008 said:


> When lining up my dog, I have my foot pointed to where the line to the blind is. Than I don't have to keep looking up at the blind and back to the dog, while I'm lining him up. I agree looking at the eyes and not the head. The head could be still and the eye darting around looking the wrong way.


Head and eyes must include spine straight which is the most difficult. They all must be straight. I have seen many handlers, including some pros at FT, that think they have the dogs head and eyes lined up and the spine is not straight, and the dog goes where the spine was pointed. I look at the eye brows on marks and also your dog may cue you he is locked in on a mark if you watch the brows and/or the ears.


----------



## Northern Skies (Sep 17, 2010)

Appreciate the infor. 
Thank you Ted. 
Lorraine


----------



## Scramblerdog (Oct 8, 2015)

ErinsEdge said:


> Head and eyes must include spine straight which is the most difficult. They all must be straight. I have seen many handlers, including some pros at FT, that think they have the dogs head and eyes lined up and the spine is not straight, and the dog goes where the spine was pointed. I look at the eye brows on marks and also your dog may cue you he is locked in on a mark if you watch the brows and/or the ears.


I'll second that, spine straight is essential.


----------



## Glynn Matthews (Jun 10, 2003)

Have a game plan 
Mine always starts before we get to the holding blind
I try to use the area from the holding blind to the line to get both of us in the correct position and state of mind - too many people rush to the line, they rush themselves and the dog on line.


----------



## Dave_Verbyla (Dec 10, 2018)

Re-posting one of my favorite RTF posts...10 pages on handling tips.


----------



## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

When lining up your dog for a blind, pick a spot ( I use a leaf or a weed)about 10 yards in front of you that is on line to the blind. Aligning your dog’s nose, eyes, and spine with this spot will help you get a good initial line.


----------



## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Watch the dog as the marks fall. Slow w/ my fast pup & calm.


I've been told: "Run a fast dog slow, and a slow dog fast. Never had a slow dog so I can't affirm the second half of that statement, but it has to do with momentum.


----------



## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

JUDGE !

Put yourself in the position to watch and evaluate good handlers. As a judge you will see some of your mistakes in others. Judging also give a handler a better perspective of "boundaries", especially on blinds, and helps in formulating your approach.

Tim


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 16, 2018)

BREATH!!!! Keep ur cast sharp and clear. Remember nobody besides u cares if ur dog doesn’t perform well so relax. It’s time for your dog to do what you’ve spent years teaching him to do so let him do it. Let him win or lose it for u don’t lose it for him. Pay attention to the dogs actions and take notes after each series. Work hard on the line to get that first look with the dog before u take the bird. Ur dog will be more animated so if anything stay calm. Pay attention to the test dogs specifically on blinds and all dogs that run before u. Pay attention to factors on the blind take notes on each set up and have a game plan going into each series. Remember ur dogs tendencies and be ready for them. Above all let the dog do what he was bred and trained to do. It’s his time to shine so let him fly. Win or lose at the very least take notes of ur dogs performance to plan ur next week of training. For me if my dog goes out I want him to go out big I have no problem having to get on the 4 wheeler to go find him. It’s all part of it. HAVE FUN!!!!!!!


----------



## Malcolm (Oct 13, 2006)

This is by far the most informative thread ever on this website. Thanks Ted!
Everyone will need to to "take the time" to incorporate all of these great suggestion's into their training routine's.


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Malcolm said:


> This is by far the most informative thread ever on this website. Thanks Ted!
> Everyone will need to to "take the time" to incorporate all of these great suggestion's into their training routine's.



Malcolm 

You don't get off that easily. What's your tip?

Ted


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

My tip.... Don’t get wedded to a cast if you are having problems on a blind, if you don’t get it on the second try you are unlikely to get it at all so try something, anything different to change the dog’s momentum e.g. silent or verbal, lateral or angle back, big walk in the direction of the cast before you cast. If you are having problems with a lateral cast a toot toot toot on the whistle combined with a silent diagonal back will often get you the cast.


----------



## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

EdA said:


> My tip.... Don’t get wedded to a cast if you are having problems on a blind, if you don’t get it on the second try you are unlikely to get it at all so try something, anything different to change the dog’s momentum e.g. silent or verbal, lateral or angle back, big walk in the direction of the cast before you cast. If you are having problems with a lateral cast a toot toot toot on the whistle combined with a silent diagonal back will often get you the cast.


I was given this great tip long before I even understood what it meant. I was working the Fall 2012 Grand and watching a difficult water series were 1/3 were failing the water blind. An amateur came off the line shaking his head and a pro sitting next to me asking the handler "you gave that dog an angle back right cast 3x in a row, on the 3rd time what made you think it was going to do anything different than the first two times"


----------



## Malcolm (Oct 13, 2006)

Ted Shih said:


> Malcolm
> 
> You don't get off that easily. What's your tip?
> 
> Ted


My tip: During training, discuss with your group where the pitfalls to your setup's are located. Articulate the where and why your dogs may make the wrong decision. Then discuss with the thrower of that bird, how you both are going to help or not help. If its a blind discuss the factors, where they are and how you should respond. 
Practicing this way teaches you how to read your dog. When to intervene, and when not to. You will also begin to understand what makes your dog uncomfortable and how to counter it.
Doing these things and applying all of the earlier tips will make you a fierce competitor. You as a handler play a much bigger role in the success of your dog than you think (70/30). Be there for them when they need you.


----------



## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

When you make a mistake in handling, remember it.


----------

