# Trained dog prices?



## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

Found this ad on a forum that I read. "Choctaws Huckleberry Heathen "Finn" is out of two HRCH parents. Sire is a 500 pt HRCH w one grand pass. This was his first season to hunt picking up about 50-60 birds. Steady, honors, handles well for a youngster, blinds out to 200 yards. (22 mo). He is ready to run seasoned tests. $4,000.00" Since I'm new to Labs and what they are worth after training, would this be a good price for a dog that has been trained and hunted for one season? His pedigree on the Dam's side is pretty good with 8 dogs in the Retriever Hall of fame. That being said that doesn't mean that he will be just as good as his predecessors or does it? Any guideance would be appreciated.


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

I just sold one just like that for $6500.
MP


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

Mike Perry said:


> I just sold one just like that for $6500.
> MP


First thanks for the reply.

Ok. I also forgot to add that the title of his add stated Finished Yellow Lab for sale. Had a guy tell me that the price was too much for this type of dog becasue he didn't have a finsihed title to his name. So is there a difference there whether he has a finished title or not to his name? Does that affect the price any?


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Get someone that knows what finished level work is, to have a "test drive" with the dog/owner. Also I see no mention of any health clearances on this dog or his parents. Have you asked or looked at this?


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

Duckquilizer said:


> Get someone that knows what finished level work is, to have a "test drive" with the dog/owner. Also I see no mention of any health clearances on this dog or his parents. Have you asked or looked at this?


I haven't asked for any health clearances for the dog of his parents. That will be my next email to the seller.


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## Lonnie Spann (May 14, 2012)

Duckquilizer said:


> Get someone that knows what finished level work is, to have a "test drive" with the dog/owner. Also I see no mention of any health clearances on this dog or his parents. Have you asked or looked at this?


x2

If the dog in question has no health clearances then you are taking a gamble on purchasing him. You need, OFA, CERF, EIC, and CNM at the very minimum. Personally, I wouldn't purchase a dog without health clearances. Some health checks cannot be peformed until the dog is at least 24 mos. old. Plan that "test drive" somewhere other than where the dog usually trains and get your friend to set up the test.

Lonnie Spann

Lonnie Spann


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Ballpark Pricing of started-intermediate-Finished, last few years they've been low
Started (marks, OB FF CC) ~1800-2500
Intermediate (Started + runs blinds, water-forced etc) ~2500-5000
Finished dog ~ 5000-9000 (female = more, Age younger =more)

Then again the price really depends on the dog, pedigree, health certs, age, titles etc. add to price. I've seen them go for a lot more, some for less.

IMO talent & skill set sells a dog. I've seen dog with titles go for a lot less than those who have never ran a test. It basically comes down to can the dog do the job, the buyer wants them to do. Also ask for a health guarantee, most sellers will offer you one on a young dog until they can get their OFA's, on an older dog a time-period for you to do the testing, or get vet certification. Still depending on age, you'd most likely know about any affected health issues by now that's one reason to buy a started dog. CNM is very early, EIC training should've shown it, Hips dogs can't move on well on bad hips-elbows. A simple vet check can ease your mind with heart-lung issues, overall health, movement etc. High money testing might not be necessary if your looking primarily for a working dog and not a breeding prospect.

If the dog is sound and does what he says $4000 is a good price. On a (22mt.) dog for this price, I'd be looking for marking ability (harder doubles-simple triples), hunting instinct, temperament, simple handling (good but, not excellent) water & land. If the dogs got that and hunting experience, I'd consider it a very good buy.


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

Might be a great prospect for a 22 month old, but I wouldn't use the term Finished to describe such a dog. A finished retreiver tends to have allot more training and either hunting or testing experience in them. With respect to the asking price, most Lab pups from decent litters sell for somewhere between $500 and $3,000 and are simply prospects. If this dog is out of two HRCH titled dogs, I would assume that pups would go for somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500, let's call it $1,250 to make it easy. So, we're really talking about the incremental amount of ($4,000 - $1,250) $2,750. Who did the training on this dog? The average HT pro will charge somewhere between $500 and $700 a month. If we assume $600/mo., the seller is pricing the dog at the puppy price plus a little less than 5 months of professional training and that doesn't count the cost of vet bills, feed or anything else. I'm not saying it had to be pro trained. There are some very talented amateur trainers out there too... just trying to apply a value to the amount of work that went into the dog, to date.

I agree on the health clearances. At a minimum, I would want to see clearances on both parents and some kind of guarantee on the youngster if it didn't already have clearances. You might ask why the owner is selling the dog. There are lots of good reasons, but I would be leary if the owner or trainer doesn't think the dog is going to make it. I also would want to see the dog work, in person or have a knowledgeable trainer nearby take a look for me and give me their professional opinion on where the dog really is in it's training and if it has potential to go further. If everything checks out, $4,000 might be a very reasonable price for a decent started (not necessarily finished) dog. Don't forget, some folks have to go through a few well bred puppies to get one that seems to have what it takes. With a 22 month old, you have the benefit of being able to see who the dog really is before making that decsion.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do!


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

THanks for the replies and advice. Too bad he already sold the dog to someone else.


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## Larry Thompson1 (Apr 19, 2011)

Sold, So that should tell you some thing about the price on that dog.


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

harleymonster said:


> THanks for the replies and advice. Too bad he already sold the dog to someone else.


I get to sell several decent hunting dogs each year. These are dogs that are performing at the Senior HT level or higher. It is almost funny to observe how the sticker shock effects potential buyers who have never trained or bought a nice retriever. They think $5K is so high and absolutely ridiculous for a dog "just to pick up my ducks". Nothing against you, Harley, but after getting less than expected for a lower $, some of these "high priced" retrievers are a bargain after the first hunt when a guy is fighting a whiner, a breaker, hard mouth, won't stop and take a cast and all the other undesirable traits in a hunting dog. 
Somebody probably went to look at the dog mentioned in the OP, saw it was doing as advertised and snapped it up because it was a good value, relatively speaking. $4K for a nice blind running dog that had good manners is cheap IMO.
Right now I have an outfitter group wanting a couple hunters for their clients for tyhe upcoming season and they have told me they don't want to spend over $3K. Going to be hard to find a decent dog that will be a commercial hunter and make the clients want to come back again.
Caveat emptor
MP


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

Mike Perry said:


> I get to sell several decent hunting dogs each year. These are dogs that are performing at the Senior HT level or higher. It is almost funny to observe how the sticker shock effects potential buyers who have never trained or bought a nice retriever. They think $5K is so high and absolutely ridiculous for a dog "just to pick up my ducks". Nothing against you, Harley, but after getting less than expected for a lower $, some of these "high priced" retrievers are a bargain after the first hunt when a guy is fighting a whiner, a breaker, hard mouth, won't stop and take a cast and all the other undesirable traits in a hunting dog.
> Somebody probably went to look at the dog mentioned in the OP, saw it was doing as advertised and snapped it up because it was a good value, relatively speaking. $4K for a nice blind running dog that had good manners is cheap IMO.
> Right now I have an outfitter group wanting a couple hunters for their clients for tyhe upcoming season and they have told me they don't want to spend over $3K. Going to be hard to find a decent dog that will be a commercial hunter and make the clients want to come back again.
> Caveat emptor
> MP


I was willing to pay the $4k price for this retriever. I was curious to why people on the MMT.com forum where telling this guy that he was asking too much for his dog because he didn't have any finished titles to the dogs name. I Pm'ed one of the guys that was saying that the dog wasn't worth that amount and this is what he said, "if u r not planning on selling or breeding him it doesn't matter a finished dog can honestly be whatever u want him to be as long as he does everything that u want. But when it comes to selling and breeding the only way for someone to know the dogs training is really at a stage considered to be finished is to have titles on him to prove it for top dollar sells or breeding now if u r a big time trainer and have a lot of clients that know u and have dealt with u in the past u can probably sell them a dog that is considered finished in training but u wouldn't be posting it on Internet either".


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

harleymonster said:


> I was willing to pay the $4k price for this retriever. I was curious to why people on the MMT.com forum where telling this guy that he was asking too much for his dog because he didn't have any finished titles to the dogs name. I Pm'ed one of the guys that was saying that the dog wasn't worth that amount and this is what he said, "if u r not planning on selling or breeding him it doesn't matter a finished dog can honestly be whatever u want him to be as long as he does everything that u want. But when it comes to selling and breeding the only way for someone to know the dogs training is really at a stage considered to be finished is to have titles on him to prove it for top dollar sells or breeding now if u r a big time trainer and have a lot of clients that know u and have dealt with u in the past u can probably sell them a dog that is considered finished in training but u wouldn't be posting it on Internet either".


Internet advice is worth what you pay for it.


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

huntinman said:


> Internet advice is worth what you pay for it.


Well since I'm offshore, its the only advice I can get right now.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

harleymonster said:


> Well since I'm offshore, its the only advice I can get right now.


I was being facetious... There is a lot of good advice here. You got some already on this thread. But take the bad with the good and filter all of it with your own common sense.


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

huntinman said:


> I was being facetious... There is a lot of good advice here. You got some already on this thread. But take the bad with the good and filter all of it with your own common sense.


Yes sir. Wasn't trying to sound like a smart mouth.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

harleymonster said:


> Yes sir. Wasn't trying to sound like a smart mouth.


Not at all... I tend to try to use humor and it doesn't always come across in print. 

Good luck on your dog search... Hope you find a good one.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Interesting preconception, I believe passes or titles to be nice, but an unnecessary $$$ investment. I need to see the dog work, anyone can get a lucky pass once in awhile. There are many dogs that I wouldn't own that have titles and many dogs who my buddy's & I would fight over that have never seen a test. The tractability & hunting experience would be the big sellers for me. I want a dog I can buy today & hunt with tomorrow, no learning curve, equals more shooting and birds for me  plus i like to put my own titles on my dogs, makes the adventure so much more meaningful.


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Interesting preconception, I believe passes or titles to be nice, but an unnecessary $$$ investment. I need to see the dog work, anyone can get a lucky pass once in awhile. There are many dogs that I wouldn't own that have titles and many dogs who my buddy's & I would fight over that have never seen a test. The tractability & hunting experience would be the big sellers for me. I want a dog I can buy today & hunt with tomorrow, no learning curve, equals more shooting and birds for me  plus i like to put my own titles on my dogs, makes the adventure so much more meaningful.


That's pretty much what I'm looking for. A dog that is ready to hunt.

thanks for the reply


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Harley guy, have you looked in the classifieds here? There is one very nice sounding dog offered by Redstar kennel. If I were looking for a started dog, I'd look REAL HARD at this one. Yep, more expensive but maybe?


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

2tall said:


> Harley guy, have you looked in the classifieds here? There is one very nice sounding dog offered by Redstart kennel. If I were looking for a started dog, I'd look REAL HARD at this one. Yep, more expensive but maybe?


I've looked at the Classifieds here. But I will go back and look at the dog you mentioned.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

It's too bad that guy responded on the other forum and pissed everyone off. 

He doesnt know what he's talking about.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

I have one or two here you couldn't get for X£", But haven't we all?
There are also a few 'Titled' dogs that I personally wouldn't give 'Tuppence' for!! ...But Hey?....You/me. Probably got hooked on the script at one time?
If it does what you want,and you have seen what you want, then it is probably what you want!, and if you want it ..You will buy it.


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## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

harleymonster said:


> I've looked at the Classifieds here. But I will go back and look at the dog you mentioned.


I have a redstar choc female who makes me mostly real happy when she is not 3 steps ahead of me and have trained with Web. He is a dandy.


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

KNorman said:


> It's too bad that guy responded on the other forum and pissed everyone off.
> 
> He doesnt know what he's talking about.


Yeah that isn't the first time he has done that on that forum about telling people their dogs aren't worth what they are asking. If I remember right.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Yeah, well, I've been running HT's and FT's along the coast for years, especially in Louisiana, and have never heard of the "pro" he claims he apprenticed under. Either the guy retired a long time ago or was simply a gun dog trainer (nttawwt). His claims of seeing lots of FC, AFC, MH and SH dogs is BS as far as I can tell. 

I know both the breeder and trainer of the dog in question, and I would advise you to consider trying to arrange a viewing if the other deal falls through. It never hurts to ask.


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

KNorman said:


> Yeah, well, I've been running HT's and FT's along the coast for years, especially in Louisiana, and have never heard of the "pro" he claims he apprenticed under. Either the guy retired a long time ago or was simply a gun dog trainer (nttawwt). His claims of seeing lots of FC, AFC, MH and SH dogs is BS as far as I can tell.
> 
> I know both the breeder and trainer of the dog in question, and I would advise you to consider trying to arrange a viewing if the other deal falls through. It never hurts to ask.



If you are talking about the dog that I orignially aked about being worth $4000 I had already asked the guy to let me know if the deal fell through.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

harleymonster said:


> If you are talking about the dog that I orignially aked about being worth $4000 I had already asked the guy to let me know if the deal fell through.


Good! 

I just posted to the other forum. Lets see what happens ;-)


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

I looked at that redstar post and if I were in the market for a gun dog or a possible competitive dog, I would look at him real hard. Good description of a well trained young guy especially at that age. 
Good luck with the search.
MP


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

KNorman said:


> Yeah, well, I've been running HT's and FT's along the coast for years, especially in Louisiana, and have never heard of the "pro" he claims he apprenticed under. Either the guy retired a long time ago or was simply a gun dog trainer (nttawwt). His claims of seeing lots of FC, AFC, MH and SH dogs is BS as far as I can tell.
> 
> I know both the breeder and trainer of the dog in question, and I would advise you to consider trying to arrange a viewing if the other deal falls through. It never hurts to ask.


The so called pro was a joke and ruined more dogs than he ever trained. Kelly has trained some nice dogs and I would t hesitate to purchase a dog from him. Some of us would rather train our dogs than get wrapped up in spending entire weekends hurrying up to wait. MMT would be the last place on earth I would go for dog advise also.


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

KNorman said:


> Good!
> 
> I just posted to the other forum. Lets see what happens ;-)[/QUOTE
> 
> He may not respond to those questions! LOL


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

Raymond Little said:


> The so called pro was a joke and ruined more dogs than he ever trained. Kelly has trained some nice dogs and I would t hesitate to purchase a dog from him. Some of us would rather train our dogs than get wrapped up in spending entire weekends hurrying up to wait. MMT would be the last place on earth I would go for dog advise also.


Yes sir, that is why I asked for advice on here! Thanks to those you have replied and given their advice.


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## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

Harley are you onshore now? If so common up to the Cajun Riviera HT this week end and take a look at one of the Redstar dogs.


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

jacduck said:


> Harley are you onshore now? If so common up to the Cajun Riviera HT this week end and take a look at one of the Redstar dogs.


Negative sir. Won't be home till thursday of next week.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Some thoughts on pricing Derby dogs. 

For years I have been told that an old rule of thumb for the pricing (or establishing the value) of a Derby dog has been $1,000. for each Derby point. 

It takes 10 Derby points to get on the National Derby list. Are all those 10 pt. Derby dogs worth $10,000.? Some maybe, some maybe not. There are Derby dogs who do not make it through the Qual to become all-age contenders. It is a big leap from being a good Derby dog to being an all-age competitor. 

The reverse is true. There are some dogs who are late bloomers. They may not have made the Derby list, but they matured later and obtained their FC and AFC titles. 

Helen


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

Helen, while I agree with you on derby dogs the Op is only concerned with finding a gundog/hunt test dog so the pts really don't matter.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

What is mmt.com ?


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

Jay Dufour said:


> What is mmt.com ?


www.mudmotortalk.com

a forum about surface drive mud motors.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Ahh! Just the place to buy a dog! (I'm sorry, just kidding but I don't really think that is the first place I would look) Did you check out that Redstar ad?


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

2tall said:


> Ahh! Just the place to buy a dog! (I'm sorry, just kidding but I don't really think that is the first place I would look) Did you check out that Redstar ad?


I did. Only thing is that now it has sale pending in the subject line when you open the ad.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Got to love their opening sentence. MMT is the largest and only.......wouldn't that make them the smallest website also. No offense to those guys but that made me laugh.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

HarleyMonster,

Kelly came out and trained with us today and one of the dogs he had was Finn. Very nice young dog. 

We were running our All Age dogs, so the marks were very tough, but we broke them down for him and he did very well.

I would make sure Kelly is aware of your interest if the other deal falls through.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

Which one was that ?


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## harleymonster (Jan 5, 2013)

KNorman said:


> HarleyMonster,
> 
> Kelly came out and trained with us today and one of the dogs he had was Finn. Very nice young dog.
> 
> ...


Ok that is awesome. I will send a email stating such tonight. Thanks for letting me know how he did.


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## David Lambert (Nov 19, 2004)

Jay Dufour said:


> Which one was that ?


The yellow he ran.


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## phillip1119 (Sep 6, 2011)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> .... plus i like to put my own titles on my dogs, makes the adventure so much more meaningful.


Here, here.....


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