# POLL: Danny vs. Mike



## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

You have the dog. You have the money. They have the opening on their truck.

You must choose one, which one do you choose?

Danny Farmer or Mike Lardy?


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Ummm.....not to be argumentative...but...

Is this question _appropriate_ here?

Keith Griffith


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## Lisa Van Loo (Jan 7, 2003)

It could be appropriate if people took it in a lighthearted manner. Kind of reminds me of the endless NASCAR discussions in this place. "If you had the car, the team, the backing, yada, yada, which driver would you pick?" Kind of like Fantasy NFL or some of those other internet funzies. Where the problem arises is when people take it a bit too seriously, start making inappropriate comments about real dogs and trainers, etc. Then it is no fun. 

Maybe I should start a Fantasy FT site. At the start of the year, you pick the ten dogs (or 20) you want on "your" truck, and then keep track of all the points won by "your" dogs throughout the year. Kind of like the RTF Spreadsheet on steroids!

Lisa


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

Well, one has to be impressed with Lardy's support staff. He has excellant assistants as well as hired-help for bird throwers and guns. Everything is run very professionally. Plus, how many Nat'l Champions has he trained? More importantly, how many Nat'l Amt. Champions and AFC's has he trained? Not taking anything away from Farmer, but to be expected to throw birds when you attend a training session is not my idea of an ideal client/pro relationship. I want to be at the line asking questions and learning more, not always throwing birds. I also understand that Lardy is a better people trainer and has better communicaton skills. Now, if I felt I had a very talented dog that we couldn't get a grip on, I send the dog to Farmer and hope that he could work his magic on that dog. That is, if he would except the dog.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

You may be on to something, LVL!

KG

PS...and Booty, if he "excepted" the dog, you'd have your answer and could move on to another dog or trainer! :wink:


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## Lisa Van Loo (Jan 7, 2003)

This is a pretty pressure-cooker environment here, so the boss encourages good clean sport. People have fantasy NFL starting up, while Fantasy NASCAR is in full swing. Our UK folks have got us all picking teams in British Football for their annual trophy. It's all good, clean fun, a little "naughty" (I have Manchester United for an "early bath" sweepstakes...which team gets a player carded in the shortest time), and gives us all something to talk about besides work, work, work.

So why NOT Fantasy FT? Could be fun!

Lisa


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

I am not scared to step in the fire

I would pick Danny - reasons

1. He is 90 miles away and I could train with him and my dog on a reqular basics.

2. He runs the same circut I do, so I would get a lot of am starts.

3. We already have a good relationship - and have talked about about what we each like and don't like in training and dogs.

4. I have a high rolling male that you can/should dig into occasionally, and he has been successful with many dogs like that.

5. Wizard is getting his marking game together, but we need lots of work on AA blinds. He is a good marker and can be head strong on difficult blinds - I consider Danny the best at getting a dog like this to AA blinds - esp waterblinds.

6. I know it would be a great dog/handler match.

7. Wisconsin/Florida is too far to drive and I have too many years in my job to change.

Actually, this list is just to demonstrate that there is more to picking a pro than who won what. First, you (client) have to be able to stand the Pro and be able to spend alot of time with him. Second the pro has to be able to work with the type of dog you own, at the level you desire. I would really have second thoughts about dropping a 6 month old off with a Pro that has 15 other FCs on his truck - how much real time is he going to spend in the yard? It has got to be a fit between you/Pro/dog for it to work.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

How could you go wrong with either one?? :? 

Both of them are extremely good handlers and very good judges of dog ability, in addition to being great dog trainers.

Numerous omissions from the list however - there are at least 8 or 10 more trainers in the elite category IMO. 8)


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## BIG DOG (Apr 17, 2003)

If I were able, I would go w/ farmer for alot of the same reasons GR did.
But working as a plant maintience hand, as a guide PT, and selling a few dog training products on the side. I have to do it all myself.
Of the subject but have you guys seen the video Bill Eckett has out at Wal-Mart (DVD)


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2003)

Yeah, I just bought and watched the Eckett video. Its a cool little video to watch but its very basic,i.e., puppy marks, steadying, intro to live birds, intro to guns in the field. Good stuff for basics or a good hunting dog, but no advanced stuff. You wanna buy it from me? :lol:


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## Terry Britton (Jul 3, 2003)

Lisa Van Loo said:


> Maybe I should start a Fantasy FT site. At the start of the year, you pick the ten dogs (or 20) you want on "your" truck, and then keep track of all the points won by "your" dogs throughout the year. Kind of like the RTF Spreadsheet on steroids!
> 
> Lisa


Why not??? ESPN even has Fantacy Pro Bass fishing. My guys did pretty good last year. I bet someone could set something up with ESPN.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

I picked Danny too. I've watched them both run (Danny much more so than Mike) and i think Danny has a gift. As i've stated before, he's a "dog whisperer"... so is Judy Aycock (Ed you lucky sob). Lardy is a SMART guy and a marketing genuis... but i vote for Danny.

Not to mention Danny will drink margaritas with me and hit golf balls at Carruth's new house. :wink: 

"Never happen agains":
1. No sire will produce like Honcho did
2. No more dogs over 440+ AA points
3. No handler will ever win 19 trials in one year

Credits:
1. Judy
2. Judy
3. Danny

They are the two most gifted dog trainers in the game - in my opinion - and one of them sleeps with Ed... i just hope Judy don't find out. HAHAHAHAHA

Shayne


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

Just adding to comments made by Gerard (client/pro relationship) and Dr Ed (other top trainers). Having your dog with a pro that gives your dog the time and consideration as his other top clients is a must. If you don't have a special rapport with your pro, he could be the best trainer on the planet but it will do your dog no good. The pro has to like you and your dog to get your money's worth. Of course, you have to have a very good dog to begin with because the competition is just too stiff and you are not going to make delicious chicken salad out of chicken poop. Finding the right trainer for you and your dog is paramount. And, it doesn't have to be a big named pro. Ya just need one that is a successful and accomplished in the sport you want to run and someone that you can develope a great working realtionship with. When I moved to this part of Alabama, my thought were; I'm in no-man's land with no FT heritage or appricaition. Who am I goona send my doggies to? I was thinking that Lardy is too expensive and has too full a load to take my dog or dogs on, with the attention I would require from him. Ditto for Farmer, afterall I'm just a nobody FT guy. I started thinking about Dave Moser and Bill Eckett but wasn't quit ready to make the phone call. Then I met a local guy who had been running HT's for years with great success. He had just hired an assistant to handle the HT dogs and he wanted to concentrate on competing in FT's. All of his current FT dogs at the time were from clients that had no idea what a FT was and he convinced them that they need to run the better dogs in Ft's. At the time, he had just a few well bred dogs and most of them belonged to him. Since then he has sold most of those dogs to clients and they are running FT's with a certain degree of success. Most are still young and in Qualifying. I was the first to go to him and say, "I want you to train and handle my dogs for FT's" That helped greatly in building the relationship. He got Booty when she was 1.5 years old(and since then, sold Booty to Jeff and one of his clients) and Raider after I got him through swim-by when he was 9 months old. I like the work and success that he has deliver to me. Moral of the story is; that special realtionship that one needs with the pro, to be successful with their dogs may well be just around the corner and all you need to do is look, ask and hopefully make the right decision. Sending a dog to an A List trainer is no guarentee that they are going to win with your dog. As an Amateur, one needs to be as good at evaluating potential in a pup as in evaluating a potential pro.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Dr. Ed wrote:



> Numerous omissions from the list however - there are at least 8 or 10 more trainers in the elite category IMO.


That was _a_ reason for my original reply....

Keith Griffith


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

From the response to this survey, seems like no one cares about either! 8)


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## Mark Copeland (Mar 5, 2003)

> They are the two most gifted dog trainers in the game - in my opinion - and one of them sleeps with Ed... i just hope Judy don't find out.


 Pure genius!


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## Andr? Fendlason (Jan 3, 2003)

*Neither*

Who cares... Training the dog yourself is most of the fun.

Andr


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

Ya can't train a competitive dog yourself. Ya need at least five dedicated folks in a training group who can spend 4 to 5 times a week for 3 to 4 hours per session. Plus have all the live birds and other equipment. Forget about mechanical throwers, especially if you are training to compete. Pro trainers are a nessesity in Ft's unless one doesn't care about being competitive or one has a lot of money and time and can hire the help. Which would end up costing more than a pro. But most of us in FT aren't rich, so we have to go the pro route. The work in FT's is that demanding.


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## Peake (Jan 3, 2003)

Booty said:


> But most of us in FT aren't rich, so we have to go the pro route.


So just how reasonable are Mike and Danny's monthly rates? More or less than the avg. monthly home mortgage?
Peake
________
FORD ANGLIA


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## Mark Copeland (Mar 5, 2003)

> Pro trainers are a nessesity in Ft's unless one doesn't care about being competitive or one has a lot of money and time and can hire the help.


So very very wrong. You don't need a training group of five that meets four to five days a week. We get it done with a group of three, twice-on weekdays and once on weekends, some times more, some times less. Weekends usually bring a few extra folks. We use pheasant fliers on every training day, pick 'em up on the way to train. 

We are all still working with our first dog and I am sure our young dogs will be even better.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

There are a lot of winning pros that cost a lot less than Danny and Mike. They get the big bucks because they do for the most part get clients with lots of dough. Because they win Nationals. It is cheaper for me to have my dog with a good pro and pay the handling fees than it is to try and take the time off and do it myself including the traveling. They don't win all the Nationals and every now and then a nobody Field Trailer like me slips in and takes the big prize. That makes it worth it.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: dogs*



Booty said:


> Not taking anything away from Farmer, but to be expected to throw birds when you attend a training session is not my idea of an ideal client/pro relationship. I want to be at the line asking questions and learning more, not always throwing birds.


Expected to throw birds? Clients aren't, visitors are, if they want to run a dog, and visitors are always welcome. Clients generally do man a station, not because it's expected, but because there is a rapport between all concerned and want to help each other. Plus it cuts down on the "overhead" which results in lower monthly training fees.

Quite often you will also see Danny out in the field throwing the birds for the clients!!

Regarding his interpersonal communication skills, I don't think it gets much better if one listens. There's NEVER a raised voice, regardless of how much a client, visitor, employee might screw up. I've never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Lardy, but I would bet that he's a "fine feller" also, as well as others.

And furthermore, as an edit, everyone in the field has a radio and can ask ANY question they care to ask. Not a bad deal.

Jerry


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Mark Copeland said:


> > So very very wrong. You don't need a training group of five that meets four to five days a week. We get it done with a group of three, twice-on weekdays and once on weekends, some times more, some times less.
> >
> > We are all still working with our first dog and I am sure our young dogs will be even better.
> 
> ...


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: dogs*



Booty said:


> Ya can't train a competitive dog yourself. Ya need at least five dedicated folks in a training group who can spend 4 to 5 times a week for 3 to 4 hours per session. Plus have all the live birds and other equipment. Forget about mechanical throwers, especially if you are training to compete. Pro trainers are a nessesity in Ft's unless one doesn't care about being competitive or one has a lot of money and time and can hire the help. Which would end up costing more than a pro. But most of us in FT aren't rich, so we have to go the pro route. The work in FT's is that demanding.


Are you saying that all of the handlers that made it to the Nat't Amateur use a pro, or are wealthy? No exceptions?

Jeff T.
who believes the real joy is in the training and the resultant relationship between the dog and trainer over the life of the dog...wins, placements, and qualifications are just gravy.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

I've never seen a "True" quad thrown in training, never. That's testing, not training.

Jerry


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## Mark Copeland (Mar 5, 2003)

Quads are very simple to throw with only two in the field. However we only throw a quad as an ABC drill. We use stickmen and rotate the throwers. Strong-arms and winger-zingers can and are used to train All-Age dogs, do not think for a second they are not. 

I am not going to argue with you on your self-justification on using a pro. Many many amateurs compete with a very small training group without the use of a pro.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: dogs*



Jeff T. said:


> Are you saying that all of the handlers that made it to the Nat't Amateur use a pro, or are wealthy? No exceptions?


No, not if you have a solid training group of at least 4 or 5 that trains regularly. Folks with the same goals.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Jerry said:


> I've never seen a "True" quad thrown in training, never. That's testing, not training.
> 
> Jerry


We did a quad Tuesday with the long and short guns retired. Testing a young dog's ability every now and then is a part of my training.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Mark Copeland said:


> Quads are very simple to throw with only two in the field. However we only throw a quad as an ABC drill. We use stickmen and rotate the throwers. Strong-arms and winger-zingers can and are used to train All-Age dogs, do not think for a second they are not.
> 
> I am not going to argue with you on your self-justification on using a pro. Many many amateurs compete with a very small training group without the use of a pro.


An Amateur can be competative without a pro if they have a good support group. I say that you need at least 5 folks in the group to be competative. Some days maybe everyone doesn't show up, but on a consistant basis, you need five. Personally, I've never liked any of the mechanical throwers and don't use them. I want real live bodies chunking the birds. Just like they do in FT's.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Booty, would you agree that there is a lot to be said for a smaller group, given that we have a limited amount of time?

Like three people, couple of "stickmen", and all being able to get in more than a couple of setups? Even if we did use a mechanical device. Some clubs use them for their trials.

Jerry


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## Mark Copeland (Mar 5, 2003)

RMRC used a mechanical thrower in the open on a long retired gun two weekends ago. :roll:


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

That is the first time I've ever heard of a mechanical thrower being used in a Field Trial. Ill have to see if there is anything in the rule book about it. I've always thought that they were not allowed. In fact, it maybe easier just to PM Rockytop on this one.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Well you have obviously never run a Trial at Ouachita.

Jerry


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

Yes I have run Ouchita's trail in Woodville, Ms. They didn't use them there. Learn something new everyday! Mechanical throwers, legal in Ft's. I still don't like em and they are no substitute of a person. I hate fooling with them. I just rather signal a real person to throw or re-throw when needed.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Mark Copeland said:


> RMRC used a mechanical thrower in the open on a long retired gun two weekends ago. :roll:



Mechanical would signify remote control to me, as per Booty's post. At RMRC, the club used wingers at a few stations throughout the trial. Those wingers were operated by real people.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

Thanks Ms Lamb, I was hoping they weren't made legal. What's the point of having a mechanical throwers if there is a human standing next to it? I thought the usefulness of of mechanical throwers was to simulate a person shooting a bird. Which gets us back to how many folks does it take in a regular, dedicated training group to be successful in FT's. I just can't see where you can do it with less then five on a consistant basis.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

One thing you get is an extremely consistant throw of the bird, be it dead or flyer.

Downside is you also don't get the movement of the "thrower" that is beneficial to gaining the dog's attention on a given bird

There's ups and downs to their use.

Jerry


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

First time I saw a "winger" actually a strongarm, used it was put on a 375 yd retired gun in the Open water marks at the Austin RC operated by a young kid. I think only 2 dogs dogs actually saw the bird.

Next time it was to throw the flyer at SLRC at the Speillway. After it blew over about 8 times in the wind, it was replaced by a real person.

The next time was at Acadiana in an attempt to throw any under the arc poision bird. The bands were old and they found a couple of birdboys that could throw twice as far.

Have not seen one since - sure am glad.


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## Mark Copeland (Mar 5, 2003)

SRC or CRC, I can't remember, used a "mechanical" thrower last spring for the flier with good results. I have never seen a "remote launcher" used in a FT.


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Tar Heel used tangelo tossers at flyer stations last spring (along with two guns and an IVAN). A Zinger Winger was used to throw a bulldog in the Open.

Jeff T.


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## Anthony Heath (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm game with them throwing the flyer, especially if the help is sketchy, but sure don't want one on a dead bird station.

A.


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## Dick Shrum (Mar 6, 2003)

LVL -
You have a really great idea in the 'Fantasy FT.' If you build it they will play. Go for it! This retriever craze is almost as big as NFL.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: dogs*



Jeff T. said:


> Are you saying that all of the handlers that made it to the Nat't Amateur use a pro, or are wealthy? No exceptions?


There are always exceptions in dog training.

Shayne


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: dogs*



Booty said:


> Which gets us back to how many folks does it take in a regular, dedicated training group to be successful in FT's. I just can't see where you can do it with less then five on a consistant basis.



Oh, I missed out on page 2 of this thread it seems, and didn't know about that part of it -- the part about five people -- well, humor me for a moment and just let me say that I had two dogs that I raised and trained from 7 week old pups that were two years apart in age; those dogs were trained 80+ % of the time throughout their lives with just me and an occasional training partner, and one or two bird-kids after school (during school year), more time with bird-kids during the summer. Other 20 - % spent doing setups within a pro's training sessions or either a slightly bigger training group...Used birds 60+ % of the time, qualified and took both of those dogs to the Natl. Yes, it can be done with less than 5 as your core, consistent group. But it _does _take a lot of hard work and dedication. And at least a couple days a week, I did "poor man's triples" with no help except me, myself, and I. :idea: :idea: :idea: 


---Vickie, who is training her new young dogs the same way


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## Mark Copeland (Mar 5, 2003)

Bravo Vickie, and thank you. :lol:


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

GO GIRL!!!!

Jerry


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

I want to put in this thread that my training group consists of 3 of us on a steady basis. We've had others, sometimes for quite some time, but it usually boils down to the three of us. We meet both days on weekends and mostly train alone during the week. In the last 10 years we've made 7 MHR's, 5 (I think) MH's, 5 QAA dogs and 1 FC AFC. One dog has about 8 open points and 15 amateur points and no win. We've put up about 60 or 70 derby points on our dogs. Others have joined our group for different periods of time and have put hunt test titles on their dogs and one has an amateur win. There have been several other QAA dogs over the years.

We're all amateurs and two of us have full time jobs. One's a retired school teacher. We use Strongarms a lot and our dogs have gotten used to them. Now we've even got some of those new fangled Zinger Wingers. They're nicer than the Strongarms, I think.

You don't need a big group. You don't need to be rich. You do need a fairly good dog. You need a source of birds. You need to WORK hard. I've watched Ferucci and McFall be successful in this game. Those two work hard and they have good dogs. I don't think that either one of them is so much better than me that I have no chance.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Mark Copeland said:


> SRC or CRC, I can't remember, used a "mechanical" thrower last spring for the flier with good results. I have never seen a "remote launcher" used in a FT.


Sooner RC used them (Tangelo Tossers) quite effectively to throw flyers. They often have people who can shoot, but don't often have experienced flyer throwers.

I used one when judging to throw a bird into some cover in the water in the 4th series of a derby. The bird boys were young and small. The throw was great and very consistent. I would much rather have the clubs use Tangelo Tossers than to use kids who can't throw.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

*dogs*

Ok, OK ,Ok, it can be done with less than 5 folks in a dedicated AA training group. I'll accept 4 and none less! Cause with a 5 group, chances are someone can't make it. With the trail group od dogs running this weekend in Paduca; Franco, Jeff's assistant Jim, Winterhaven worker Tim and locals Ken and Gayle trained. Can't tell ya how smooth and how many different things we got to do in 4 hours. It was 5 folks with 10 dogs. We got a lot done! I guess that with 4 folks training AA in a group, at least one can run triples. Personally, I don't think that we train on enough quads. Heck, ya see quads on the weekends, why not train on them? I know that one does not have to train on quads to be able to perform then at a trail. I just feel like if ya gonna see them in a trail, ya need to train on more of them. 8)


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

I guess we are lucky and spoiled. We hire very experienced older birdboys. Keith has judged for us and he can tell you if he had any problems.

Our club does not own any throwers, no plans to by them. Now if Ted or someone would like to donate one for a flyer station - they can deliver it at the trial in October. No wait - they can't - We have a "no mechcanical throwers" clause in our premium.


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Gerard, there may be a "clause" in the thought process, but I'm looking at the Premium now, and mechanical throwers are not mentioned at all.

Jerry


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## LuckyLab (Sep 14, 2003)

Back to the original question?????? I am fairly new to the game and my pup is on the way to the trainers full time next month......I know what I am paying for a respected trainer but what does the lardy/farmer types charge????

LuckyLab


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## Biesemeiers (May 22, 2003)

Someone posted about mechanical throwers not having any movement out in the field like gunners or bird boys. When I was down at Mikes I watched all of the throwers he used had someone out there and they always made the throwing motion as they launched the bird. As for Danny or Mike, flip a coin how could you go wrong. I have used Danny years ago. Shoot I got back in ft to have fun this go-round so show me the one that has the most fun :lol: and I`m there.

brian


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

How much do you make?

Inquiring about the fee's should be directed, personally, to the Trainer involved.

Jerry


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## LuckyLab (Sep 14, 2003)

I don't see what the big deal of discussing the fees are?????? Anyone can call and find out.......I was just curious compared to what I am paying that all......No harm meant....... :?:


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## LuckyLab (Sep 14, 2003)

Or how about somebody just give me their websites and I will do the research to my questions on my own.....I don't want to OFFEND anyone!!!! :? :?


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2003)

LuckyLab said:


> Or how about somebody just give me their websites and I will do the research to my questions on my own.....I don't want to OFFEND anyone!!!! :? :?


Danny doesn't have a website (that I've ever seen) and Mike's website isn't for his training business. Neither of them take dogs in like your average trainer. It's virtually impossible to get a dog on Mike's truck. I don't know about Danny's. I have no idea how much either of them cost.

Both of them have phone numbers listed in Callbacks Directory. You can call and ask them. I know a few of the people on here have had dogs on Mike's truck, but I don't think it's anyone's business but the trainer's to post the amount here.

-Kristie


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

It's no secret, MOST pros of that caliber and there are a few around the country, are $575 - $650 a month. Some require a 12 month contract, some don't. Most charge $75-100 handling fee to run the dog in a stake. Add on to that is birds, and any vet expenses. Oh - and some pros charge a Winter/Summer trip fee - generaly $100/200 a month on top on their normal fee.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

As you all know I am currently in the US visiting, on my never ending search for improving my knowledge on training my labradors for competition in Australia.

Last year when I visited I was amazed at the cost of having a competition dog with the cost of training, entry fees etc. in the US.

After my six week stay, I can shout to the world, they earn every cent!!!!!!! Boy oh boy do they WORK. I am never going to complain (regarding time) about training my 5 labradors AGAIN.

Julie Cramond - is not not looking forward to her long flight home tomorrow.


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Gerard Rozas said:


> It's no secret, MOST pros of that caliber and there are a few around the country, are $575 - $650 a month. Some require a 12 month contract, some don't. Most charge $75-100 handling fee to run the dog in a stake. Add on to that is birds, and any vet expenses. Oh - and some pros charge a Winter/Summer trip fee - generaly $100/200 a month on top on their normal fee.


There is a Gun Dog/Hunt Test Pro who's web site says they charge $1,200.00 per month. No mention of birds, meds, handling fee, paperwork fee...

Joe S.


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## Brad Vail (Jan 9, 2003)

Joe,

I had an idea who you were referring to so I checked. Guess what? I was right. That is obscene :shock:. Oh well, I guess if there are people willing to pay for it???? Maybe some of their neighbors can try for half that


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

brad said:


> Joe,
> 
> I had an idea who you were referring to so I checked. Guess what? I was right. That is obscene :shock:. Oh well, I guess if there are people willing to pay for it???? Maybe some of their neighbors can try for half that


Brad...

The neighbors do...for well less than half!!!! :shock: 

It's all good...

Joe S.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

A few years ago, while conversing with Marilyn Fender we got into that discussion. (fees)

I don't remember the exact figures but I know she told me that Mike charges a monthly fee plus has a contract for running so many trials a year etc etc. Seemed like she was into it for about $30k a year (fees plus running expenses, handling fees etc). Most folks though are pretty happy there so when someone (like Marilyn) doesn't have a current dog on their truck she subleases out her hole. Not exactly sure how that works out exactly but I know the "replacement dog" has to be approved by Mike.

Bill Totten has a website and he charges $750 a month and that does NOT include eating out and trip expenses. You can check it out. www.nightwindkennels.com (I think that is correct)

WRL


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

WRL said:


> A few years ago, while conversing with Marilyn Fender we got into that discussion. (fees)
> 
> I don't remember the exact figures but I know she told me that Mike charges a monthly fee plus has a contract for running so many trials a year etc etc. Seemed like she was into it for about $30k a year (fees plus running expenses, handling fees etc). Most folks though are pretty happy there so when someone (like Marilyn) doesn't have a current dog on their truck she subleases out her hole. Not exactly sure how that works out exactly but I know the "replacement dog" has to be approved by Mike.
> 
> ...


WRL -

I have little doubt that kind of money is justified for successful FT Pro's...I was just shocked to see $1,200.00 per month for a gun dog/HT dog.

It's all...well...whatever it's going to be...

Joe S.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Totten's site is www.nightwindtraining.com

Looked like the monthly fee, before additional costs, was $650....FYI...


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Well there ya go....

I don't think anyone "hides" what they charge. You know upfront what you will be paying for and how much.

Heck I just paid McKenna kennels $25 to stand on their cement for 15 minutes to get a dog bred.

WRL


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