# % of non-hunter handlers?



## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

What do you suppose the percentages are of HT folks who have never hunted and don't want to hunt (or just can't hit anything aimed at) who nevertheless love running the dogs at HT's (or FT's)?

Related Question: How many women discovered retriever work because hubby brought home a hunting dog he never had time to train?


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## mostlygold (Aug 5, 2006)

I suppose the % of non hunting folks is very high. I have always hunted but find most of the people running the AKC tests do not. I don't feel that makes them less dedicated to their dogs or to this sport.

Dawn


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

At least at AKC events, the whole duck call thing doesn't serve as a source of humiliation.


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

I suspect there is a larger percentage of AKC handlers who do not hunt than the percentage of HRC handlers that do not hunt. Just a guess.


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## hotel4dogs (Aug 2, 2010)

Just an observation in my very limited experience, in the Spaniel tests the percentage of AKC handlers who hunt is much larger than in the retriever tests. Just from general chat in the galleries, it seems like almost all of them do.




David McCracken said:


> I suspect there is a larger percentage of AKC handlers who do not hunt than the percentage of HRC handlers that do not hunt. Just a guess.


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## Maxs Mom (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't hunt my hubby used to with his lab years ago. He says he wants to with the 2 we have now but hasn't. 

I got into hunt tests when we were looking for our lab, it was suggested we go to a test and talk to people. It was so cool watching the dogs work. I think I only saw junior and senior tests too. It's a training thing for me. The more I learn about training in any discipline, the more I want to learn. 

I won't handle a gun. It's why hubby runs my dog HRC. If AKC goes that road ever, I will be an owner watching.


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## Dixiedog78 (Jul 9, 2009)

I hunt and I have run both AKC / HRC. There is nothing like seeing all your hard work pay off!! You ought to see the look on your hunting buddy's face when your HRCH/MH dog nails mark after mark and then picks up half a dozen blinds because your other buddies on the other end of the pond don't have a dog to pick up all thier downed woodies.


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## jackh (Oct 14, 2010)

Most of the people I train with are duck hunters.



Maxs Mom said:


> I don't hunt my hubby used to with his lab years ago. He says he wants to with the 2 we have now but hasn't.
> 
> I got into hunt tests when we were looking for our lab, it was suggested we go to a test and talk to people. It was so cool watching the dogs work. I think I only saw junior and senior tests too. It's a training thing for me. The more I learn about training in any discipline, the more I want to learn.
> 
> I won't handle a gun. It's why hubby runs my dog HRC. If AKC goes that road ever, I will be an owner watching.


Why won't you handle a gun?


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## Erik Nilsson (Jan 16, 2011)

The best AKC and HRC tests Ive ran is when the Judges say this is a hunt test, were hunters and we are here to judge hunting retrievers. Never heard a handler complain about blowing a duck call to start the test but many when a duck call is used behind the line to start the test.


as a percentage to hunt I would guess about 60/40?


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

I don't object to the hunting scenarios and accouterments. I actually enjoy it. (It illuminates for me why the things we train for... are so important.) I don't object to the duck calls and my dog could handle any distraction you can throw at her. It's just when I blow one (like on our training days) it's pathetic. Might as well give me a kazoo.


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## dorkweed (Apr 14, 2009)

For those that don't hunt....................I truly believe the AKC "titles" are a "status" symbol. I've seen and judged AKC types in HRC that "the gun" was like a virus to be avoided!!!


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## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

1tulip said:


> What do you suppose the percentages are of HT folks who have never hunted and don't want to hunt (or just can't hit anything aimed at) who nevertheless love running the dogs at HT's (or FT's)?


I fall into the second category   Does it make a difference why people do stiuff with their dogs?



1tulip said:


> Related Question: How many women discovered retriever work because hubby brought home a hunting dog he never had time to train?


I discovered Dogs because my wife ran hunt tests (and hunted with dogs). Again, what difference does it make why people do stuff with their dogs?


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## Brian Welch (Jan 30, 2013)

I enjoy hunting more than hunt test but my dog seems to be the opposite. She (my dog) knows when we go to hunt test there will be birds on the ground for her to get. Not so much when hunting (haven't seen a lot of birds the past few years). If hunting were not so expensive or if I could find a lease at a decent price I would be out there a lot more, so unfortunately I fall into the category of running more hunt test than hunting.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I guess I look at it a bit different..

I have always had "meat dogs" in the past. I hunted. They very rarely left a bird in the field. They ran simple blinds well enough, that I could get them to a bird,without a pocket full of rocks.

What has changed, is my interest in *HOW* folks get dogs trained to a higher level than what constitutes a "Meat Dog"

I searched for help! Teaching me what TRAINING truly encompasses.

The H/T programs do nothing more than allow you to be subjected to another persons opinion as to how your dog, and you,meet a written standard.

For ME! ,, its nothing more than an avenue to have a criticle eye look at your progress in training..

To Me!! Training is what dog work is all about.. no matter what venue..

People that train a dog to a very high level have my utmost respect.. Its the hardest thing I have ever pursued.. 

The training part of dog work is more important to me than learning the nuances of what it takes to become a Judge..
I may consider Judging,, once I feel Personally I have REALLY trained a dog to the level I would judge,, but FIRST,, I think people need to work at the first step..

I think the H/t give an amateur a reasonable way to evaluate his training... Nothing more..,,,,and JMHO.


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## RJG (Feb 18, 2005)

I don't hunt but my husband and sons do. My husband would teach his Lab how to basically retrieve and take him hunting - I wasn't particularly interested. Then we went to see our first HT - WOW, it looked like so much fun! 10 years plus later...I'm an addict. I still don't hunt myself but go along on hunting trips and handle the dog. Husband guns for HT/FT and I handle in both AKC & HRC. I can't hit a darn thing but feel comfortable handling a shotgun and demonstrating gun safety.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

I've run FTs where a judge blew a duck call....that turned some heads. I hunt, all my dogs hunt - some better than others.


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## PHRGold (Sep 23, 2013)

I only know of one individual in our HRC who does not hunt.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

I have hunted (not to the extent of some) but find some of the HRC scenarios presented are not how I would go hunting. I don't have issues with the gun. I don't like wandering through bushes ducking limbs with waders on when hot, standing in waist high water trying to get the dog to turn and get yourself around with the gun so the dog follows. That is not a scenario I would put myself in hunting. And at my age I have a feeling of being unsafe especially with the thick muck in the water below. So I guess I am not a hunter! I can see HRC having limitations as time goes on if they have many tests such as I presented. IMO


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

dorkweed said:


> For those that don't hunt....................I truly believe the AKC "titles" are a "status" symbol. I've seen and judged AKC types in HRC that "the gun" was like a virus to be avoided!!!


I believe the camo fashion show that is HRC is just a 'status' symbol and that a flyer is like a virus to be avoided.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

David McCracken said:


> I suspect there is a larger percentage of AKC handlers who do not hunt than the percentage of HRC handlers that do not hunt. Just a guess.


Probably a fair assumption but I would also say the number of non-hunting HRC folks has grown greatly over the last ten years or so.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

For me, it's all about duck hunting. I can recall going one time without my dog in the last 5 or 6 years. It's not the same without a dog & I'm just not all about chasing cripples or even wading to get the ducks. Most people that I know who run FTs, also hunt. Whether a handler decides to hunt is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The real travesty is when the dogs don't get to go hunting. Say what you want, I believe they love the real thing much more. Shoot a few mallards up close & personal or have them chase a cripple in a cypress lake or field and you'll see how happy the can really get. Again, that's just my opinion.


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## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

I enjoy waterfowl hunting with a trained retriever ,I don't enjoy hunting with a half a$$ dog because I've hunted with some good dogs. Some of my favorite parts of hunting are looking into the eyes of the dog following a flock of circling birds and knowing I don't even need to look up to know what corner they are on or watching the intensity in the dogs eyes when the bird is floating on top the water and waiting to exploded when they are sent or when one sails into the cattails and the dog makes it look easy. Hunting brought me to this sport and if I had to choose it would take priority over playing the games ,but I enjoy training knowing that come hunting season my dog has the physical and mental abilities to make hunting look easy.
I hope to one day personally help bust the myth that you can't hunt with a field champion,but don't need 5 ribbons to tell me my dog is a master hunter.

You want to see a diversion in a hunting setup ,pull a little Debbie wrapper from your bag ....that's a diversion !


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## zeekster (Jun 15, 2009)

Love your comments and it's all so true, best diversion is what ever your snacking on. There is one thing about hunting I have never owned a dog yet that didn't know what was going to happen when I moved that safety. Wish I could hunt more for my dogs but health problems can affect that. How about a test at hunt test where you fire 3 shots and you buddy fires three and you say sit tight we got nothing.
I don't understand why it is only hunt test dogs are expected to hunt, wasn't that what field trials were originally designed for, in both case's we have gone beyond what is need in a meat dog. 
The thing I find is the biggest lie is they say that HRC, AKC, NAHRA and CKC events are judged on a standard and there not competing against each other biggest bunch of bull crap I ever heard, especially when you here some one say my dog did better than that.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

DoubleHaul said:


> I believe the camo fashion show that is HRC is just a 'status' symbol and that a flyer is like a virus to be avoided.



You just need to get out of N.Cackalacky. Flyers are pretty common in region 2. Where are he Myth Busters when you need them?-Paul


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## Don Lietzau (Jan 8, 2011)

In the VDD system you must produce a valid hunting license to enter a test as part of your requirement.
Don


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

_I hope to one day personally help bust the myth that you can't hunt with a field champion,but don't need 5 ribbons to tell me my dog is a master hunter._

Tom Quinn's book The Working Retriever (in addition to gorgeous artwork) has stories about how he got into the retriever training game. It was always about hunting for him. His story about his FC Dr. Davy PhD is worth the price of the book.


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## brsutton86 (Apr 19, 2013)

shawninthesticks said:


> I enjoy waterfowl hunting with a trained retriever ,I don't enjoy hunting with a half a$$ dog because I've hunted with some good dogs. Some of my favorite parts of hunting are looking into the eyes of the dog following a flock of circling birds and knowing I don't even need to look up to know what corner they are on or watching the intensity in the dogs eyes when the bird is floating on top the water and waiting to exploded when they are sent or when one sails into the cattails and the dog makes it look easy. Hunting brought me to this sport and if I had to choose it would take priority over playing the games ,but I enjoy training knowing that come hunting season my dog has the physical and mental abilities to make hunting look easy.
> I hope to one day personally help bust the myth that you can't hunt with a field champion,but don't need 5 ribbons to tell me my dog is a master hunter.
> 
> You want to see a diversion in a hunting setup ,pull a little Debbie wrapper from your bag ....that's a diversion !


This is my opinion also. I like the games, but hunting is first for me. I cannot find anything to be more fun than to be in a blind with my little lab and a few good buddies.....


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## ryaneder (Oct 29, 2009)

I must say, I think it is a good thing that non-hunters participate in hunt tests. Hunting faces a lot of negative publicity, and when people get exposed to the sport through dogs that is a great thing (dogs and people tends to a positive and powerful connection). I run an upland hunt test organization, and we get so many newcomers because they love to see the dogs do their thing, so if hunt tests keep growing in popularity I see this as a great thing and very educational. The more we learn about dogs (genetics, training, etc), the closer we get to educating people about how to get great dogs. Perfect world thinking; people will learn about where to get good dogs, who to learn from when it comes to care and training, and the poor quality breeding and training programs will slowly lose customers based on education! Just a thought!


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## Karen Klotthor (Jul 21, 2011)

I love to go duck hunting. I started when we got our first dog which we bought for hunting(didn't know about hunt test). I orginially started hunting to go watch the dog but love going. I do not always hit what I shoot at but who cares. I wish my husband and I could go more often but no lease and he goes doing week days on public areas and I cannot go. Of course he would shoot me if I picked up a duck call.
I do believe you can take any well trained hunting dog hunting no mater what venue they run. The hunt test are great to keep them active thoughout the year.
As far as camo with HRC, yes some judges go a little too far, but it is all fun so who cares what you have to wear.


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## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

My opinion may change if I ever earn a blue while running with the big dogs


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

paul young said:


> You just need to get out of N.Cackalacky. Flyers are pretty common in region 2. Where are he Myth Busters when you need them?-Paul


LOL. I agree with you Paul, it is hot down here. Luckily I am headed up to MI for the second half of this month to train some dogs, run some trials and hopefully catch some trout.


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## bcoleman73 (Feb 8, 2013)

I never hunted until I got my female lab who was crazy about retrieving. I got into the hunt test game and then became a hunter, a little backwards than most people. I hunt to 1- have fun with me dog and 2- to see them in the thrill of it. And I will only kill what I will be willing to eat. The past four years have been a blast!


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

Maxs Mom said:


> I don't hunt my hubby used to with his lab years ago. He says he wants to with the 2 we have now but hasn't.
> 
> *I won't handle a gun. It's why hubby runs my dog HRC. If AKC goes that road ever, I will be an owner watching.*





jackh said:


> Most of the people I train with are duck hunters.
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you handle a gun?


I'm a little curious about that statement too. I think to each his own, but after throwing out that particular statement amongst this particular group, I think you might consider expounding a bit.


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## kelrobin (Aug 12, 2013)

dorkweed said:


> For those that don't hunt....................I truly believe the AKC "titles" are a "status" symbol. I've seen and judged AKC types in HRC that "the gun" was like a virus to be avoided!!!


Don't make assumptions. I don't hunt, but have nothing against guns. I breed Labrador RETRIEVERS. Many of my dogs do go to hunting homes and by taking them to hunting tests it shows that the instinct to work is there. 

Mostly, I take my dogs to hunt tests (as well as obedience trials, Rally trials and conformation shows) because I love hanging out with my dogs.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

shawninthesticks said:


> I enjoy waterfowl hunting with a trained retriever ,I don't enjoy hunting with a half a$$ dog because I've hunted with some good dogs. Some of my favorite parts of hunting are looking into the eyes of the dog following a flock of circling birds and knowing I don't even need to look up to know what corner they are on or watching the intensity in the dogs eyes when the bird is floating on top the water and waiting to exploded when they are sent or when one sails into the cattails and the dog makes it look easy. Hunting brought me to this sport and if I had to choose it would take priority over playing the games ,but I enjoy training knowing that come hunting season my dog has the physical and mental abilities to make hunting look easy.
> I hope to one day personally help bust the myth that you can't hunt with a field champion,but don't need 5 ribbons to tell me my dog is a master hunter.
> 
> You want to see a diversion in a hunting setup ,pull a little Debbie wrapper from your bag ....that's a diversion !


Very well said Shawn............


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## P J (Dec 10, 2009)

Steve and I don't duck hunt, but we do dove hunt, deer hunt and turkey hunt. There is no doubt our dog would rather hunt than run a test.

We were dove hunting with a dog long before we knew what a hunt test was. We found out about hunt tests after looking for a lab puppy with health clearances.


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## BentleysMom (Nov 6, 2010)

I have never hunted, but would now be willing to try some day. I love watching the HT's and FT's, ran a few myself. It is a myth that you can't have fun watching. I enjoy it very much, you may see me as Marshall several times a year. They obviously give me this position because I am no use as a gunner. Have no clue how to shoot a gun. Never run HRC for that reason. 

Everyone has different reasons for doing HT's or FT's, at least for me I am enjoying it and having fun with my dogs!


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

BBnumber1 said:


> I fall into the second category   Does it make a difference why people do stiuff with their dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> I discovered Dogs because my wife ran hunt tests (and hunted with dogs). Again, what difference does it make why people do stuff with their dogs?


I asked the question because I wondered if I was the odd man out, and if being a non-hunter hurt my credibility. But obviously, the insecurity I might have felt is totally baseless and says more about me than the people who run HT's. 

Hunting is just not in my repertoire. I might be able to hit a duck with a bit of practice, since I used to shoot skeet with my dad. But we never had to wake up before sparrow fart and sit in the freezing pre-dawn darkness waiting for a flock of skeet to fly in. So I'll just stick with the dog-training part of the sport.


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## JDogger (Feb 2, 2003)

OK, the less people on the spot the better. But Tulip...., try it at least once. I won't explain why. JD

OK I will....










Sometimes we shoot a bird or two. Go home, cook potatoes, eggs and bacon, get warm, clean the birds, remember the deer, elk, javelina, turkeys, pheasant, beaver, muskrat, and the +1000's sandhill cranes from that morning. The way the sky looked in the East as the sun came up and crept over the cottonwoods. The warmth of the strong coffee and the sweetness of the Little Debbie's that we shared with the dogs. 

Then we go back to bed, (the only thing better then putting all those layers on is taking them off), and sleep the afternoon away.

Hunting....it's hard to beat.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

1tulip said:


> I asked the question because I wondered if I was the odd man out, and if being a non-hunter hurt my credibility. But obviously, the insecurity I might have felt is totally baseless and says more about me than the people who run HT's.
> 
> Hunting is just not in my repertoire. I might be able to hit a duck with a bit of practice, since I used to shoot skeet with my dad. But we never had to wake up before sparrow fart and sit in the freezing pre-dawn darkness waiting for a flock of skeet to fly in. So I'll just stick with the dog-training part of the sport.


And I believe most will respect that. To others there is an euphoria when the marsh awakes up and you and dog anticipate the hunt. It is something that can't be explain unless you witness it yourself. It's an inner thing to us.


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

1tulip said:


> I asked the question because I wondered if I was the odd man out, and if being a non-hunter hurt my credibility. But obviously, the insecurity I might have felt is totally baseless and says more about me than the people who run HT's.
> 
> Hunting is just not in my repertoire. I might be able to hit a duck with a bit of practice, since I used to shoot skeet with my dad. But we never had to wake up before sparrow fart and sit in the freezing pre-dawn darkness waiting for a flock of skeet to fly in. So I'll just stick with the dog-training part of the sport.


Well, that's what dove hunting is for. I'm not much of a duck hunter, don't really like the way they taste, and not much of a morning person in general, but I will say that one can see some magical things in the marsh at dawn. You would be amazed at how far a flock of white pelicans can glide when taking advantage of "ground effect" just a few inches above the water, and if you have never heard the wind whistling through the wings of teal in a highspeed glide, you have missed something truly special.


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

1tulip said:


> What do you suppose the percentages are of HT folks who have never hunted and don't want to hunt (or just can't hit anything aimed at) who nevertheless love running the dogs at HT's (or FT's)?
> 
> Related Question: How many women discovered retriever work because hubby brought home a hunting dog he never had time to train?


I am a hunt tester who has never hunted (although I go along on pheasant hunts to help with the dogs and take pictures.) Went to my first hunt test after being encouraged to check it out since we had just bought a nice chessie pup. I just loved seeing the dogs work, and how much they enjoyed it. 4 years later, I am working on my gun handling so I can run HRC too, and am even considering trying out the pheasant hunting for myself this winter. I would love to try duck hunting too, but it's kind of slim pickins around here for ducks.

As for your second question, since I started our puppy out hunt testing, my husband has begun to hunt again. Win-win!


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## MBellow74 (Jun 19, 2014)

From Louisiana and I've been hunting my whole life! Never had a dog of my own to hunt with so figured I would try training one for hunting! Well after I had success and all of my buddies back home we're doing ht/FT I figured I would give it a try! Well now I'm hooked like a big ol white perch... I still love hunting way more but I must say I've met some pretty nice people at hunt test! Seems like most of everyone in the dog game is pretty friendly and willing to help another person out! The test are fun but the thrill of watching a group of big ducks cup on top of you... You can't ever beat that with a stick.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

1tulip said:


> I asked the question because I wondered if I was the odd man out, and if being a non-hunter hurt my credibility. But obviously, the insecurity I might have felt is totally baseless and says more about me than the people who run HT's.
> 
> Hunting is just not in my repertoire. I might be able to hit a duck with a bit of practice, since I used to shoot skeet with my dad. But we never had to wake up before sparrow fart and sit in the freezing pre-dawn darkness waiting for a flock of skeet to fly in. So I'll just stick with the dog-training part of the sport.


I can understand a little insecurity about it but it really is totally baseless. Most folks will never know one way or another and even if they do, will appreciate good dog work regardless of the other avocations of the handler. There may be one or two along the way who will somehow feel you are not worthy if you don't hunt, but there are douches in every crowd. Don't worry about it. Train and run your dog.


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## Brettttka (Feb 9, 2013)

All of this talk about hot cups of coffee in the blind, watching the sun come up over the tree line, and that sweet smell of wet dog is getting me all kinds of excited for season to get here. Only couple weeks left until the blue rockets come screaming past. And if you have ever hunted with your dog and miss they can give you a look that will make a good buddies ribbing seem innocent. Bring on the ducks!!!


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## Dwestall (Aug 30, 2011)

Brettttka said:


> All of this talk about hot cups of coffee in the blind, watching the sun come up over the tree line, and that sweet smell of wet dog is getting me all kinds of excited for season to get here. Only couple weeks left until the blue rockets come screaming past. And if you have ever hunted with your dog and miss they can give you a look that will make a good buddies ribbing seem innocent. Bring on the ducks!!!


Can I get an Amen brother.......almost nothing in the world I like more than sitting in the blind with my pup. He gets way more jacked for real hunting than a test and yet stays reasonably calm at the same time......a real conundrum.


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## Steve Hamel (Mar 1, 2004)

I hunt a lot. I always have. Going on about 37 years worth. The words "You're insane" often times come out of my wife's mouth from October-February. 

If you enjoy hunting your dog, have fun…….. If you enjoy only Hunt Tests, have fun………. If you enjoy both, have fun…………. That's all that matters.

Personally, I do both.

Steve


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## krazybronco2 (Jan 31, 2013)

started out as a hunter wanting a dog to pick up ducks then discovered the HRC tests and ran started and was hooked from then on. But still a hunter but the hunting has changed a bit i would rather take the dog and no gun if i was told we could drop a 3-4 man limit of ducks for the dog to pick up dont get me wrong i love shooting birds but nothing beats the dog quitely whining as ducks are circling and you want to talk amped let the ducks start landing on the water 30 yards in front of the dog.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

DoubleHaul said:


> I believe the camo fashion show that is HRC is just a 'status' symbol and that a flyer is like a virus to be avoided.


There was a flyer at Great Lakes HRC this year. It was fabulous! Wish they would do more. And yes camo overkill as usual!IMO


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

There are some very good word-crafters on this site. I would like to compliment the writing. You guys can be very inspiring.


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