# ivermect horse paste



## Hidden Valley (Aug 4, 2003)

Has anybody ever used ivermect horse paste on their dog? If so, what was the percentage?


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## Janice Gunn (Jan 3, 2005)

Do you mean for the elbows?

Never worked for my dogs.
Maybe their elbows are such because they choose to lay on the cool cement in the summer instead of their resting beds and grass.


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## rboudet (Jun 29, 2004)

Yes I have used it for the last three years with no problems. The tube is for a 1250lb horse. I just broke it down to how much each increment on the plunger equaled. My dog is about 60-65 lbs which is equal to about one click on the tube.


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## brian breuer (Jul 12, 2003)

Rboudet wrote: "The tube is for a 1250lb horse. I just broke it down to how much each increment on the plunger equaled. My dog is about 60-65 lbs which is equal to about one click on the tube. "

No offense but you are way way way overdosing your dog. The dose for horse worming is 91 mcg / lb of body weight. The dose for a dog is about 3 mcg / lb of body weight. Heartguard for a dog 51 -100 lbs is 272 mcg. 

The tube is 6.08 grams of 1.87% ivermectin. That is 113,696 mcg of the drug. The tube is ten clicks so you are giving 11,400 mcg of ivermectin when 272 is all that is needed or about 42 times the needed dose. 

So, push out 1 click on the syringe and give a tenth of that and you will still be about 3 or 4 times the needed dose. 

Brian


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## Dave Combs (Feb 28, 2003)

I've found the easiest way to do this is to push the paste into a medical syringe, like the one used for giving kids liquid meds. You can figure out how much you need according to your dogs weight and then distribute from there. Any leftover can be put back into the original tube.


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## rboudet (Jun 29, 2004)

brian breuer said:


> Rboudet wrote: "The tube is for a 1250lb horse. I just broke it down to how much each increment on the plunger equaled. My dog is about 60-65 lbs which is equal to about one click on the tube. "
> 
> No offense but you are way way way overdosing your dog. The dose for horse worming is 91 mcg / lb of body weight. The dose for a dog is about 3 mcg / lb of body weight. Heartguard for a dog 51 -100 lbs is 272 mcg.
> 
> ...


I don't think I explained that right as far as the clicks. If you are saying the tube has ten clicks then one tube would last ten months. I am on my second tube and she will be four in Feb. I will look at it again when I get home.


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## Retired Gunner 2 (Mar 28, 2007)

Use 1/10 th. of 1 cc for a dog between 50 and 100 lbs. I've been using this dosage for 20 yrs. and I've had three different vets tell me this was a proper dosage for heartworm preventive. I use a insulin syringe without the needle of course, and place on the dogs tongue once a month. I normally use Zimectrim, a horse paste with 1.87 ivermec


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Why do this when the approved heartworm meds for dogs are safe and effective? If you really have to cut corners because you have so many dogs, maybe you ought to find another area. I am in constant disagreement with my training partner on this subject, so I'm not trying to be "holier than thou" at all. I just dont think saving a few bucks is worth the risk.


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## rboudet (Jun 29, 2004)

I know of at least five people who were using "approved heartworm meds for dogs" and their dogs tested postive and had to have treatment. I have been using ivermect for three years and my father used it for over 20 with no problems. Come to think of it I can't think of anyone in my training group or club that doesn't use ivermect (liquid or paste).


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## speckslayer (Feb 18, 2005)

i know of at least 5 case's down here of people using the approved preventative and have tested positive for heartworms.


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## Hidden Valley (Aug 4, 2003)

2tall said:


> Why do this when the approved heartworm meds for dogs are safe and effective? If you really have to cut corners because you have so many dogs, maybe you ought to find another area. I am in constant disagreement with my training partner on this subject, so I'm not trying to be "holier than thou" at all. I just dont think saving a few bucks is worth the risk.


Where the heck did you get cutting corners because of too many dogs? My TWO, that is TWO, did you get that, TWO dogs are on VET administered heartworm meds. I was curious. Go back to sleep, and get up on the other side of the bed.


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## David Lambert (Nov 19, 2004)

The paste tube has marks metered in 50lb doses per "click". My concern with the paste is do you get a consistant dose each time? Is there any guarantee that it is evenly mixed throughout or did a particular tube get a weaker portion of the mix from lets say the corner of the mixing vat thus making it less effective? It seems to me that the injectable liquid given orally would be a little more reliable.


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## MRGD (Apr 9, 2007)

Is this cheaper? Has anyone seen a downside to doing it this way? For example, has anyone ever overdosed their dog to a toxic level?


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## Dave Combs (Feb 28, 2003)

MRGD said:


> Is this cheaper? Has anyone seen a downside to doing it this way? For example, has anyone ever overdosed their dog to a toxic level?


From someone who works with insecticides on a daily basis, I can tell you that ivermectin has very low mammalian toxicity. You would have to give your dog almost unthinkable amounts to do much damage. 

To put it into perspective, treatments for some cases of mange call for a gradual increasing amount of ivermectin given orally on a daily basis for weeks at a time - it tops out at several cc/day.


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## Hidden Valley (Aug 4, 2003)

David Lambert said:


> The paste tube has marks metered in 50lb doses per "click". My concern with the paste is do you get a consistant dose each time? Is there any guarantee that it is evenly mixed throughout or did a particular tube get a weaker portion of the mix from lets say the corner of the mixing vat thus making it less effective? It seems to me that the injectable liquid given orally would be a little more reliable.


The consistant or non-consistant dose is my vets concern. It is not too hard to figure out the dose, b ut is it consistant "mix".


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Hey Duckppopper, I wasnt blasting you. Too many dogs is the reason MY FRIEND gives for using the farm stuff instead of the vet stuff. I just disagree if the ONLY reason is to save money. Now on the other opinion, if some of the vet approved stuff is proving to be NOT effective, I am certainly going to look into it. To me, in the long run, it is more important to give the most protective treatment I can. I have treated a dog with heart worm, (years and years ago before prevention was common) and can tell you that is difficult and expensive. (did work though, the dog lived to be 18!)


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## brian breuer (Jul 12, 2003)

It just pisses me off that drug companies sell to the pet people at around $5 a dose when there is about $0.02 of drug at the livestock rate. 

That's why I do it. I can do math and conversions. I can even put it in a little cookie like they do. 

As far as consistent dose, how do you know the little tablets have a consistent dose? The same way as the paste; you don't. 

Brian


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## David2 (Jul 26, 2006)

Just wanted to pass along what my vet told me about the paste... Many times the paste dose is not consistant. Because it is meant to be given as a whole to a 1250 lb horse, for them it does not matter. But when you are breaking up the doses into such a small quantity, you could be getting a lot of medicine in one dose and a lot of paste in the next. He also said something about the low absorption of the meds in this form. I have heard if you are going to go this route, that the liquid is much better. I have no first hand experience with this but it is just what was passed along to me.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

David2 said:


> Just wanted to pass along what my vet told me about the paste... Many times the paste dose is not consistant. Because it is meant to be given as a whole to a 1250 lb horse, for them it does not matter. But when you are breaking up the doses into such a small quantity, you could be getting a lot of medicine in one dose and a lot of paste in the next. He also said something about the low absorption of the meds in this form. I have heard if you are going to go this route, that the liquid is much better. I have no first hand experience with this but it is just what was passed along to me.


I would believe that it is not consistent in the tube. What could be cheaper or more convenient than 1% liquid generic ivermectin using a 1cc syringe?!


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## David Lambert (Nov 19, 2004)

I can speak from experience that I do not trust the paste. My BLM was, and I stress was, on it for about 15-16 months. He has missed 2 trials and will probably miss a 3rd due to treatment of a mild case of heartworms. My vet wants him back on an approved preventative after the treatment is complete. One concern I have about that is that the same company makes both the preventative and the treatment for heart worms. I am not trying to imply anything, but smells a little funny to me. I have done more research than I care to think about on preventatives and treatments for this and will have him on what I feel is the best to prevent this from occuring again. All I know is it sucks trying to keep him calm for the last 2 months.


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## Cristy (8 mo ago)

Hidden Valley said:


> Has anybody ever used ivermect horse paste on their dog? If so, what was the percentage?


Yes. My dog is blind now! Don't use it!


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## Kurtr1979 (Jun 22, 2020)

Cristy said:


> Yes. My dog is blind now! Don't use it!


Did you put it in your dogs eyes?


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

The dose of the horse paste is really sensitive. Try imagine taking a drug dose for a 1000 lb horse and cutting down to an appropriate dose for a 50 pound dog. There are so many dose levels told by non-medical people that when I ran Dogs Forum on Compuserve we banned the discussion. About half the time people were getting Tsp and Tblsp confused and when they were tring to convert metric doses into these it was even worse.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Eric Johnson said:


> The dose of the horse paste is really sensitive. Try imagine taking a drug dose for a 1000 lb horse and cutting down to an appropriate dose for a 50 pound dog.


Exactly, the manufacture and amount of mixing is made for the entire dose to be give to the 1000 pound horse. People use it and they think it works until it doesn’t and their dog gets heartworm. I prefer giving the 1% liquid with an insulin (1cc) syringe and have done so for over 30 years with no problems using a formula devised by a veterinarian.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

The obvious erroneous conclusion is that the amount of Ivermectin is uniformly distributed in the carrier (paste) which it is not. The same is true for halving pills, one half a pill does not equal 1/2 the amount of the active ingredient. Solutions are different with the active ingredient more or less uniformly distributed.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

I'll just stick to the pro heart shot. You know what they say about opinions everybody has one


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

If y


james.robert.salter said:


> Not a conclusion, but rather an educated assumption. Do you have good reason to berlieve the drug is not homogeneously distributed in the paste? I've heard this unsupported claim by those who are selling the overpriced heartworm products, when confronted with the idea of halving pills made for larger dogs. As one who has worked in the diagnostics and pharm industry, and knows the typical manufacturing processes and equipment, it seems very unlikely that they don't make a goal of achieving homogeneity. It would be hard to produce reliable doses at all, in the pills and syringes, without homogeneity in the batches.


If you have some data confirming that pills and solutions designed to be administered by weight have the active ingredient uniformly distributed in the product please present it, if not I will continue to question the advisability of halving or quartering recommended doses. If you have no supporting data I have no interest in any further litigation. I will continue to caution owners against empirically dividing recommended manufacturers dosages.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Why would anyone want to use horse paste instead of liquid ivermectin solution?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Why would anyone want to use horse paste instead of liquid ivermectin solution?


Exactly because it’s inexpensive, easy to accurately dose, and actually less cost per dose. Why risk the dog being under dosed?


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## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

And in my recent experience, ivermectin-resistant strains are not uncommon in TX and LA. Not only my dog, but several in my community have experienced heartworm infections while on regularly administered dose, prepackaged by the manufacturer. Most of us (my training group and others) have changed to the proheart injection. Sooner or later (if not now) resistant strains will appear for proheart as well but based on local veterinarians in LA who deal with a good deal of heartworm, proheart is the best bet at present.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

It is puzzling to me why some folk will drop a couple thousand on a pup. More than double that on gas, birds, food and gear. And then go penny pinching on vet and drugs. Guessing they have the correct amount of a horse product in a bisket to give the dog.


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## saltgrass (Sep 22, 2008)

dr_dog_guy said:


> And in my recent experience, ivermectin-resistant strains are not uncommon in TX and LA. Not only my dog, but several in my community have experienced heartworm infections while on regularly administered dose, prepackaged by the manufacturer. Most of us (my training group and others) have changed to the proheart injection. Sooner or later (if not now) resistant strains will appear for proheart as well but based on local veterinarians in LA who deal with a good deal of heartworm, proheart is the best bet at present.


Add MS , AR that list .


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

The active ingredient in ProHeart is moxidectin which comes from the same family of macrocyclic lactones as milbemycin, ivermectin, and selamectin. Moxidectin is also the active ingredient in a tablet (Simparica trio) and a topical (Advantage Multi). Here is the link regarding resistant strains of Dirofilaria immitis.





Elsevier Enhanced Reader







reader.elsevier.com


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

https://parasitesandvectors.biomedcentral.com/counter/pdf/10.1186/s13071-021-05104-7.pdf


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## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

Thanks for the link!


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

When I was a sysop on Compuserv we started getting so many message about using the horse paste. Our answer to them pointed out the error of their math but then eventually "the big boss" allowed us to simply ban those messages. It was obscene the way the folks did the math and said that they were right. However about 9 out of 10 were wrong but there the messages were for the whole world to copy.


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## Paul "Happy" Gilmore (Aug 4, 2021)

So, if a horse paste isn't distributed evenly why not make it evenly distributed and make the tube smaller and the dose easier to administer? I given the stuff a million times and a smaller tube would be a lot easier.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> So, if a horse paste isn't distributed evenly why not make it evenly distributed and make the tube smaller and the dose easier to administer?


I rarely disagree with Doc Ed. On the distribution of active ingredients in Heartgard, Horse Paste or whatever, I can't see how the active ingredients could be anything other than evenly distributed. The products are made in large batches and then put in tubes or divided into individual doses, Right?

I still haven't heard a reason to use horse paste instead of liquid Ivermectin.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> I rarely disagree with Doc Ed. On the distribution of active ingredients in Heartgard, Horse Paste or whatever, I can't see how the active ingredients could be anything other than evenly distributed. The products are made in large batches and then put in tubes or divided into individual doses, Right?
> 
> I still haven't heard a reason to use horse paste instead of liquid Ivermectin.


My advice about halving doses was about chewable tablets which came from a friend in the veterinary pharmaceutical industry, the entire tablet contains X mg but might not be uniformly distributed n the tablet


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

EdA said:


> the entire tablet contains X mg but might not be uniformly distributed n the tablet


For that to be true each tablet would have to be made separately, or at least the active ingredient added separately.
Maybe that is how it's done? Doesn't sound efficient but maybe more precise?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> For that to be true each tablet would have to be made separately, or at least the active ingredient added separately.
> Maybe that is how it's done? Doesn't sound efficient but maybe more precise?


Not debating just reporting what I was told, I am unfamiliar with the manufacturing process. I find that adhering to manufacturer dosing instructions is generally a good policy.


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