# Lardy Volume #1 and the logic



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm blown away at my perception today, of the exact same articles that I read by Mike lardy in 1995, 1996 etc. My ancient VHS Total Retriever Training series, and the associated articles make so much sense to me this time around!

No holes regards,

Chris


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Keep that attitude Chris. It will serve you and your dog well.

E-collar regards,

Jerry


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Because you can only comprehend the material for the level you are at the time.

I found that in the beginning I could only absorb what was relevant.. The rest was sooooo over my head that it flew right over.

Angie


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## Lance-CO (Jan 10, 2003)

Ditto! Like I said, I just watched Mike Lardy's DVD Vol I with his workbook. I was blown away to how much my dog had to put up w/me. It all make sense why my dog acted the way he acted in training and during HT.


Angelo


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Every time I look at mine, I see more of what I missed the last 26 times I looked at the videos. :lol:


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

*Electricity*

Be one with the collar.


;-)


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Angie, isn't everthing in those articles relevent? :wink: 

Chris, I kind of know what you're talking about. The last few days I've been going back and re-reading articles again. Very glad I did. Each paragraph seems so packed with great little tidbits. He really covered a lot of bases. I can't think of too many problems I've had that I couldn't find a solution to in one of those tidbits. If I could only wave a magic wand to make me more consistent as a handler.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

So how come you guys holler at me when I dont "get" Lardy's articles? I would love to be able to buy and follow the whole program, but without help I only comprehend so much. My training pard, a good "lardy" man, has been doing this for 30 years and he doesnt understand all. Thats why hes going to the work shop, and I couldnt get in. When you help me it is phenomenal, when you yell at me, I am as confused as my dog. Once again, ther are *no pros in my immediate area, and I want to learn with my dog, thats why I got him. Not being grouchy, just want the most, best, reliable advice I can get.  [/u]*


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I'm blown away at my perception today, of the exact same articles that I read by Mike lardy in 1995, 1996 etc. My ancient VHS Total Retriever Training series, and the associated articles make so much sense to me this time around!
> 
> No holes regards,
> 
> Chris


It has been my experience that if you can make it to a workshop, and see it in person it becomes even more clear.

Sounds like you are enjoying it!

Jeff


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

2tall said:


> So how come you guys holler at me when I dont "get" Lardy's articles? I would love to be able to buy and follow the whole program, but without help I only comprehend so much. My training pard, a good "lardy" man, has been doing this for 30 years and he doesnt understand all. Thats why hes going to the work shop, and I couldnt get in. When you help me it is phenomenal, when you yell at me, I am as confused as my dog. Once again, ther are *no pros in my immediate area, and I want to learn with my dog, thats why I got him. Not being grouchy, just want the most, best, reliable advice I can get.  [/u]*


*

You need to come to Texas.... I specialize in cases like you....  

Angie*


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Hard to watch those old Lardy tapes to me. They need to be updated and with all new footage if Mike wants to keep sales up. I find the production quality is dated which makes for laborious viewing. 

There is a lot of good fresh Material that gets into many aspects a lot deeper. Material that has been released over the last two years by Rorem, Attar, Stawski etc. With more material to hit the shelves when Judy & Danny's DVD is released. 

Watch it all because, even one DVD on basics doesn't cover it all. Same with all aspects of training. It is good to read about different techniques used by different trainers and use what you feel comfortable with. Read the dog and do what works.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> Hard to watch those old Lardy tapes to me. They need to be updated and with all new footage if Mike wants to keep sales up. I find the production quality is dated which makes for laborious viewing.
> 
> There is a lot of good fresh Material that gets into many aspects a lot deeper. Material that has been released over the last two years by Rorem, Attar, Stawski etc. With more material to hit the shelves when Judy & Danny's DVD is released.
> 
> Watch it all because, even one DVD on basics doesn't cover it all. Same with all aspects of training. It is good to read about different techniques used by different trainers and use what you feel comfortable with. Read the dog and do what works.


It may be "outdated" to some, but everyone including myself recommends his tapes. Everyone is playing "catch-up" to him... And they won't catch him.... Cause they're just "been there,,, done that" :wink: 

Angie


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Mr Booty said:


> Hard to watch those old Lardy tapes to me.


But you have to admit, those articles are hard to beat. And I don't think those other products you mention actually lay out a complete training program the way Mike's does. Can't speak for the upcoming Aycock/Farmer series.

As for mixing and matching. Speaking for myself, if I hadn't gotten a program from one guy and stuck to it, we would have had a mess.

Maybe with lots of experience regards...


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## byounglove (Mar 2, 2005)

Look for the long awaited revision of Total Retriever Training by fall of this year. The basics section will have the most dramatic revision and is going to be 2.5 to 3 hours long. A completely new manual will also accompany the dvds.

Also....check www.ybsmedia.com and www. total retriever.com in the next week for our VHS trade in program.

Barbara Younglove
ybsmedia.com


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Buzz said:


> But you have to admit, those articles are hard to beat. And I don't think those other products you mention actually lay out a complete training program the way Mike's does.
> 
> .


When you look at total volumn of work available and quailty of instruction, then yes. And yes, I think the reprints of his training articles lays it out best. I would use it as the center.

But the other tapes I mention go into specifics a lot deeper and shows more on those specifics. I guess that I've just seen the Lardy material so much, I'd like to see something fresh from him. Especially some AA training in more depth. Find a water blind on any of his material that one would see in an AA stakes today. It doesn't exist. I'd like to see more from him.

Here's an idea for the next Lardy DVD, " Field Trialing With Mike "

Pick four or five complete trials and break them down series by series. What did he see as the factors with each and his approach to each series. Show diagrams of the test, wind direction, etc. Show how the dogs reacted to the factors and what he did to help them at a trial. 

Doesn't have to be filmed at a trial. He could always recreate as much as possible for the sake of the training and instruction.


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

byounglove said:


> Look for the long awaited revision of Total Retriever Training by fall of this year. The basics section will have the most dramatic revision and is going to be 2.5 to 3 hours long. A completely new manual will also accompany the dvds.
> 
> Also....check www.ybsmedia.com and www. total retriever.com in the next week for our VHS trade in program.
> 
> ...


Awesome!


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

byounglove said:


> Look for the long awaited revision of Total Retriever Training by fall of this year. The basics section will have the most dramatic revision and is going to be 2.5 to 3 hours long. A completely new manual will also accompany the dvds.
> 
> Also....check www.ybsmedia.com and www. total retriever.com in the next week for our VHS trade in program.
> 
> ...


Well there you go! They recognize the need for freashing up too. 

Maybe more AA training as well. :wink:


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

I can understand certainly understand the revelations of reviewing. 

I just reread Charles Morgan on Retrievers, written in the late '60s. I first read that book in the early '70s & found it helpful. I just reread it, don't know why really, I've just been rereading several of the older training books that I have. This book by Morgan, however, seemed like a new book to me. I found a new appreciation for Morgan, not for the drills or set-ups but his philosophy, insight & frank views of judging, training & where FTs were headed.

Maybe I ought to review the Lardy material too. :wink:


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## John Suits (Jan 12, 2007)

*retrievers*

Lardy's stuff is awesome. A friend turned me on to him at a trianing session, dog training has never been looked at the same by me since. Evans stuff is also great. I've found that his reads a little easier and I put the two together for a well rounded program.


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

One if the best sessions at the Lardy Advanced Workshop that I attended many years ago was when we were completely washed out by rain.

We retreated to Mike's kennel room and had a chalk session for three hours. We were able to talk about marking theory, intricate handling, etc. (Did you know that Mike has six different verbal casts, depending on what inflection he uses?) I didn't either until that day.

He also diagrammed the hardest setup he's ever seen in a trial and why it is that way and how to run it.

We talked about pond construction and what he would change on his own ponds if he did them over.

I would love to be able to do the same thing with Farmer, Rorem, and the other great ones.

Maybe I'll catch them on another rainy day.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Trade in program? Wow, long suffering husband would be so impressed if I could save a few dollars. Most unusual in this household. 

I was watching the Rorem/Carr videos last night. At the beginning of Tape 2, Rex becomes so emotional regarding a chocolate labrador he used to own. Lucky I had tissues at hand. 

I greatly enjoy the Rorem/Carr tapes.


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## rbr (Jan 14, 2004)

Mr Booty said:


> Hard to watch those old Lardy tapes to me. They need to be updated and with all new footage if Mike wants to keep sales up. I find the production quality is dated which makes for laborious viewing.
> 
> There is a lot of good fresh Material that gets into many aspects a lot deeper. Material that has been released over the last two years by Rorem, Attar, Stawski etc. With more material to hit the shelves when Judy & Danny's DVD is released.
> 
> Watch it all because, even one DVD on basics doesn't cover it all. Same with all aspects of training. It is good to read about different techniques used by different trainers and use what you feel comfortable with. Read the dog and do what works.


Look at it Like Casa Blanca or Cool Hand Luke. Old flicks for sure but still great stories.

Bert


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

byounglove said:


> Look for the long awaited revision of Total Retriever Training by fall of this year. The basics section will have the most dramatic revision and is going to be 2.5 to 3 hours long. A completely new manual will also accompany the dvds.
> 
> Also....check www.ybsmedia.com and www. total retriever.com in the next week for our VHS trade in program.
> 
> ...


Beautiful!!!!

Angie


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## John Norris (Feb 25, 2004)

Angie B said:


> Because you can only comprehend the material for the level you are at the time.
> I found that in the beginning I could only absorb what was relevant.. The rest was sooooo over my head that it flew right over.
> Angie


So true, with me at least. It's amazing how you begin to really understand how the "pieces" fit together after some time. I just wish it wouldn't take so much time. My poor dog is the one who suffers.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

You can definately pick up "new" things when you rewatch Lardy's and the Carr/Rorem tapes. You as a trainer and handler are in a new perspective.

Booty, I agree. Hearing Mike's analysis of the setups and how dogs are handled would be great. At the end of the first workshop I attended I suggested that they change the days of the workshop and include a trial where "our" handling could be evaluated. That was probably a little too much to ask for!!

Tom


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I'm blown away at my perception today, of the exact same articles that I read by Mike lardy in 1995, 1996 etc. My ancient VHS Total Retriever Training series, and the associated articles make so much sense to me this time around!
> 
> No holes regards,
> 
> Chris


Chris -

We seldom realize what we don't understand until we are in a position to know what it was we weren't able to realize or capable of understanding.

I'm Writing For The Government Now Regards,

Helpy Helperson


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## ramblinmaxx (Nov 17, 2004)

Aussie wrote:


> I was watching the Rorem/Carr videos last night. At the beginning of Tape 2, Rex becomes so emotional regarding a chocolate labrador he used to own. Lucky I had tissues at hand.


Julie, 
I agree the Roren/Carr videos are very good. And it really gets to me also when I hear Rex talking about his Chocolate Lab. Makes me feel good to know He loved his Dogs as much as most of us do. And that love is the most important thing. The great performance we get from them through our training is just an exceptional "Extra Bonus"

Guess I should go back and watch the Lardy video's again. I'm sure I would get a lot more out of them this time. I'm sure they STILL will be over my head, but at least I believe I should be able to understand a little better now.

Chris,
Thanks for this thread, it reminded me that I do have some Material to Review!


Marty


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## thunderdan (Oct 14, 2003)

Tim West said:


> One if the best sessions at the Lardy Advanced Workshop that I attended many years ago was when we were completely washed out by rain.
> 
> We retreated to Mike's kennel room and had a chalk session for three hours. We were able to talk about marking theory, intricate handling, etc. (Did you know that Mike has six different verbal casts, depending on what inflection he uses?) I didn't either until that day.
> 
> ...


Tim,

Would you explain what he uses the different inflections for. I am curious. 

thanks

Dan


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Barb,
Really glad to hear that Mike's Total Retriever Training is being updated -- although I really liked to see Lottie running in "old" one -- also loved watching Click in collar conditioning DVD -- amazed at how much his son, my Maxx, looks like him (especially as Click was only 8 months old) -- really liking Total Marking DVDs -- love Rorem/Carr series as well as Dave's handling one -- and can't say enough about Jackie Mertens DVD -- some of these may be "dated" but the material is timeless none the less


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I'm blown away at my perception today, of the exact same articles that I read by Mike lardy in 1995, 1996 etc. My ancient VHS Total Retriever Training series, and the associated articles make so much sense to me this time around!
> 
> No holes regards,
> 
> Chris


and now years later?  more cooler still ;-)


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Franco said:


> Hard to watch those old Lardy tapes to me. They need to be updated and with all new footage if Mike wants to keep sales up. I find the production quality is dated which makes for laborious viewing.
> 
> There is a lot of good fresh Material that gets into many aspects a lot deeper. Material that has been released over the last two years by Rorem, Attar, Stawski etc. With more material to hit the shelves when Judy & Danny's DVD is released.
> 
> Watch it all because, even one DVD on basics doesn't cover it all. Same with all aspects of training. It is good to read about different techniques used by different trainers and use what you feel comfortable with. Read the dog and do what works.


Hey Franco,

I was watching discs 4 and 5 of the TRT 2nd edition this morning and thought of this very post.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you saw discs 4 and 5 for the advanced stuff and the unreleased, detailed "fireside chat" stuff. They updated it with all sorts of stuff.

The more I learn about retriever training, the more I realize I did NOT KNOW.

Mike and Dennis have a really interesting discussion about the steps between Double T and cold blinds. Mike explains the evolution. It is really a neat explanation. Basically, it is a merge of two generalized schools of training a couple decades ago or so. 

These are just some thoughts that hit me this morning.

Chris


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

Dennis did basics and transition articles in OnLine that fill in many of the holes/questions/details in the TRT videos and articles. You can order the back issues and match the ROL articles with the Lardy articles and the book that accompanies the DVDs. The combination of those resources helped me a lot. Particularly when I followed that up with going to a couple of Mike's seminars. 

Steve


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

I am so happy!
I can at last toss out the ol VHS Tape player
look what came the other day!!!


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## Jason Glavich (Apr 10, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> I am so happy!
> I can at last toss out the ol VHS Tape player
> look what came the other day!!!


I hope you aren't throwing the Tapes too! some of us could still use em...


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Jason Glavich said:


> I hope you aren't throwing the Tapes too! some of us could still use em...


not sure, they are very well worn....


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Just a clarification.

I've read criticisms of the Lardy material, stating that it may be over the heads of new folks. I disagree wholeheartedly, and in fact believe that the best value in retriever training literature is the Volume I reprint of Mike's articles.

The only reason I did not see the articles, when first printed in the brand new Retriever Journal magazine in the mid-90's, for their true value was this: I'd titled some Amish-trained dogs in a hunt test program by that time. I got caught up breathing my own air, thinking I "knew enough". At that time, as Danny and Judy would say, I was "phase 2". My mind was closed and alternate ways to train a dog were not necessary to me then.

I prefer both Mike's writing and speaking styles over some other authors. One of the things I like most about Mike's writing in the Volume I articles is that they were printed in a magazine. Anyone who's been published will tell you that the editor has a word count in mind. The author needs to tailor his material to efficiently fit within the confines of the article. 

The result of the magazine format, for the Volume I articles is extremely concise material, packed with valuable detail, lacking in excessive, flowery words. (in other words, Mike writes in a manner that I don't. Otherwise this post would be about 3 sentences long)

***************

A note to Ken: I went on a week-long biz trip last week. I logged on as I departed to YBS Media. (link above for Lardy TRT 2nd Ed) When I returned, I had my own YBS package with both Rorem's "Art and Science" as well as Dennis' "Training Alone".


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> A note to Ken: I went on a week-long biz trip last week. I logged on as I departed to YBS Media. (link above for Lardy TRT 2nd Ed) When I returned, I had my own YBS package with both Rorem's "Art and Science" as well as Dennis' "Training Alone".


 
I'm gonna buy the Carr one next.
I had the new set and time yesterday afternoon so I just kept sittin there.
I think my brain is going to explode;-)


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

Did Loco watch it with you?  

Juli


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Juli H said:


> Did Loco watch it with you?
> 
> Juli


Loco flossed with the remote.
I have to stand up and press play.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Ken

I have a buddy training his first puppy. He is going the lardy route. The pup is a male ches. Any suggestions for doing the program with a ches?


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Ken
> 
> I have a buddy training his first puppy. He is going the lardy route. The pup is a male ches. Any suggestions for doing the program with a ches?


a spiked muzzle? ;-)


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

david gibson said:


> a spiked muzzle? ;-)


Now, now... This could easily degrade into folks asking how to adapt the training material for showdog labradors... Let's keep it above the line. 

Chris


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Ken
> 
> I have a buddy training his first puppy. He is going the lardy route. The pup is a male ches. Any suggestions for doing the program with a ches?


The absolute only difference is…..
Many folk are used to starting the force program as soon as the adult teeth are in.
With the Chessie we wait until the adult brain is in.
Sometimes brain and teeth come in together, sometimes teeth are first.
Take it slow with the Chessie and make sure it has a brain and knows how to learn.
And the bitchen crux of it is, is if you mess up and teach something wrong.
The Chessie will know that wrong thing for life. That can be a pain in the butt.





.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Ken
> 
> I have a buddy training his first puppy. He is going the lardy route. The pup is a male ches. Any suggestions for doing the program with a ches?


Chris,

I have taken a number of chessies through the program. My experience is that the chessies tend to progress quicker and younger than the labs I have trained. Generalizing, chessies tend to mentally mature earlier than labs. We judge when to start FF on when the dog starts to show us it does not think it needs to obey. 

Tom


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Ken Bora said:


> Loco flossed with the remote.
> I have to stand up and press play.


Ken, you always come up something worthwhile reading!!!  

You are funny sometimes regards...

Judy

PS...what's this about a new Aycock/Farmer DVD to be released soon?


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