# Golden Retriever Club of St. Louis - Hunt Test



## swampcollielover

I attended the GRCA event last weekend in O'Fallon, MO. Rained all day Saturday, and ended on Sunday with a down-poor with thunder and lighting! I primarily saw the SH hunt tests, but watched many of the MH tests. 

*This was the worst run hunt test I have ever attended!*  I am not going to go into details on this right now, but I will later. I wondered if others had the same perspective that were at the events?

All the results are not yet posted, but as an example....on Sunday we had over 40 dogs running on SH, and only 5 passed....I do not recall ever seeing that low of a pass/fail ratio on SH tests!

Let me know...and I will expand later, just for your information....

This is really too bad cause I love hunt testing and I live in Missouri.....I am writing the club a letter with details and asking for a full refund! Don't expect to get it, but this is the only time I have felt this way about a hunt test....so I am compelled to say something!


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## Jeannie Greenlee

Dear Swampcollielover,
So nice of you to post this and hide behind a handle. If you have any guts or think you are justified you should give your name in the post.

1. The club cannot control the weather!
2. Do you know what was going on behind the scenes that made this the "worst run hunt test you ever attended"?
3. Did you step up and ask the club if they needed any help? You do know that just because you pay an entry fee that does not mean you shouldn't help out, right? It's easy to sit in the gallery or your vehicle during the rain and criticize while others try to make things happen. 
4. There were not 40 dogs that ran the SH on Sunday and the dogs that passed did the work the dogs that didn't pass didn't! Judges shouldn't just give ribbons to people who pay the entry fee, they have to meet the standard! The judges have already talked to Jerry Mann (AKC field rep, in case you didn't know, about the test and the pass rate)

I don't hide my name!


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## swampcollielover

Jeannie Greenlee said:


> Dear Swampcollielover,
> So nice of you to post this and hide behind a handle. If you have any guts or think you are justified you should give your name in the post.
> 
> 1. The club cannot control the weather!
> 2. Do you know what was going on behind the scenes that made this the "worst run hunt test you ever attended"?
> 3. Did you step up and ask the club if they needed any help? You do know that just because you pay an entry fee that does not mean you shouldn't help out, right? It's easy to sit in the gallery or your vehicle during the rain and criticize while others try to make things happen.
> 4. There were not 40 dogs that ran the SH on Sunday and the dogs that passed did the work the dogs that didn't pass didn't! Judges shouldn't just give ribbons to people who pay the entry fee, they have to meet the standard! The judges have already talked to Jerry Mann (AKC field rep, in case you didn't know, about the test and the pass rate)
> 
> I don't hide my name!


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Jeannie Greenlee

you are Gutless

You are always free to see your score sheet, you just have to ask.


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## swampcollielover

I don't hide my name![/QUOTE] *MAYBE YOU SHOULD, AS A FELLOW MISSOURIAN, I AM EMBARASED FOR YOU!*

1. I did not suggest that the rain had anything to do with the problems at the tests! I did put that in my comment as a 'qualifier' on what I was about to post...! 

2. Obviously, when I send my letter to the GRC, I will include my name! So get over it! I choose not to put my name out on the Internet at any level!

3. According to the final running order that your club put out, their were 43 SH dogs registered on Sunday, I did here that 1 had been added making it 44! Note above, that I said in my comment that you had OVER 40 dogs running in SH! Maybe what you meant to say was that a bunch of us choose not to run after the down poor and lighting because the test was being run so poorly. 

4. I do recall that it is the clubs responsibility to provide enough staff, including volunteers and actually train them! This obviously was not done for these events. 

5. So did Jerry Mann tell you this pass rate was within normal limits on a SH Test? I have looked back at results on many hunt tests and typically 30 - 50% will pass SH....., regardless, when I document the actual problems I saw, it will substantiate why this set of tests, was so very poorly run. Of course I am only speaking for myself, as my opinion! 

What really bothers me about your comments is that you take "NO RESPONSIBILITY" nor do you even suggest that the club had problems....it is that kind of thinking that allows these things to happen!

By the way it would have been nice if the bathrooms had toilet paper and were not completely dirty....I know the club is also not responsible for that, but seems like someone would have checked them on Friday....or Saturday....or Sunday! Just saying...

At the sake of over playing this forum and the many dedicated people in it, I will save all of the specifics of how bad this test was run, to my letter to you club....thus sparing both of us any more embarrassment!


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## swampcollielover

Jeannie Greenlee said:


> you are Gutless
> 
> You are always free to see your score sheet, you just have to ask.


*Name calling is the best you can do! So you are saying you guys ran these test well? Stop doing the personal attacks and give us your perspective, that is what I was trying to get anyway...not some YoYo attacking me like somehow I caused all of this! Step up and be honest or go home...

Also, I failed to mention that one of your club officials was talking on Sunday morning about how much he was not looking forward to Monday morning. His point was that he was going to have so many emails and phone calls complaining about the hunt tests! At least one of you saw how messed up this was.....*


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## Jeannie Greenlee

1. Your post started with complaining about the weather and in no way separated that complaint from the others.
2. I still think you don't have enough spine to put your real name out there.
3. Just because the running order says that a number of dogs entered does not mean that is the number that ran.
4.Where do you see that in the regulations? Please educate me. I can assure you that every effort was made to provide the judges the workers they needed
5. Please check the AKC hunt test regulations and tell me if anything you saw at the Senior test on Sunday violated those regulations. Again, I welcome the education. Judges are not obliged to pass a certain percentage rate of dogs that run.

I in no way said that there were no problems. I simply asked if you were aware of what was going on behind the scenes that may have caused some issues that you saw and if you volunteered to help when you saw that there was an issue.
You should not make assumptions about what someone said in a conversation that you ease dropped on. You don't know what context that comment was made in. 

For your edification, so that you don't flame another club trying to put on an event for YOU to run your dog in, if you think that a test is unfair (does not fit within AKC regulations) or unsafe it is your responsibility to contact the hunt test committee that is listed in the premium and catalog. They will have a meeting to determine if your claims are founded and can require that the test be changed.

Have a good day! 

I will try to help you out so that you do not have such a bad experience again. Please refer to the AKC hunt test regulations to support what I have told you


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## Chris Atkinson

SwampCL,

It is unfortunate that you choose to remain anonymous on the internet among our special interest group, yet you choose to call out a specific, named group who worked to put on a hunt test. They get the public scrutiny, while you keep the anonymity.

Please go ahead and pursue your private letter.

I see nothing productive out of continued public dialogue on this. If you choose to identify your self and spell out specific details, maybe that can be addressed.

I personally see this as an ineffective use of the Events forum.

I'll also point out that judges are as challenging to find as ever. Folks who put on events are stretched quite thin. It is cases like this that make folks choose to go fishing rather than give up their weekend in crummy weather to judge our dogs.

I'm not saying some of your concerns are invalid. Maybe they are. But your approach used here was ineffective.

Sincerely, Chris Atkinson


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## fishduck

My one experience with this club was very different. Grounds were excellent. Site locations were well marked & easy to find. Club members were very gracious and helpful. Hotels & restaurants were close & very nice.

Besides my dog, three things go into my truck before I go to any hunt test. Bug spray, sunscreen & toilet paper. Hunt tests/field trials are almost always in rural areas. Bathrooms are going to be sparse. Be thankful for the running water & keep TP with you always!

Inclement weather ALWAYS puts a strain on clubs. Someone (often bird technicians) doesn't show up at all or is extremely late. So extra duties get added to the faithful. It is impossible to do everything & help is desperately needed. 

Almost everyone working a test is doing so as a volunteer. It is often a thankless job. From the judges that gave up a 3 day weekend to the committee that has been planning for months. In all honesty, there are so many people that make a hunt test happen that you can't name them all.

On the really bad days, I will be in the field doing all I can to help.


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## John Gianladis

The St. Louis Golden club is made up of some awesome retriever people! I have judged for them twice and competed in a number of their events. Jeanee, Pat, John, Sue, Sasha, and the rest of the club are hard workers. The Busch grounds are very nice, as well! I've chaired 7 licensed trials and judged about 40 stakes, not to mention thrown birds, shot, set up/broke down tests, picked up/dropped off judges at airports, lined up flyers, gunners, lunches, dinners, etc. etc. My point is, it's a lot of freakin work! There is rarely enough help and almost never any thanks. So not to freeload off of the original post, but instead a heartfelt thanks to Jeannee and the Golden Retriever Club!


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## swampcollielover

Chris Atkinson said:


> SwampCL,
> 
> It is unfortunate that you choose to remain anonymous on the internet among our special interest group, yet you choose to call out a specific, named group who worked to put on a hunt test. They get the public scrutiny, while you keep the anonymity.
> 
> Please go ahead and pursue your private letter.
> 
> I see nothing productive out of continued public dialogue on this. If you choose to identify your self and spell out specific details, maybe that can be addressed.
> 
> I personally see this as an ineffective use of the Events forum.
> 
> I'll also point out that judges are as challenging to find as ever. Folks who put on events are stretched quite thin. It is cases like this that make folks choose to go fishing rather than give up their weekend in crummy weather to judge our dogs.
> 
> I'm not saying some of your concerns are invalid. Maybe they are. But your approach used here was ineffective.
> 
> Sincerely, Chris Atkinson


Chris,
If you read my original post I was careful not to point out details of the failures of this club, but I did want perspective from other folks that attended! Hopefully, someone will actually read what I wrote who was at this event and give a different perspective. My decision not to put my personal information out is something many of you should consider. In todays world, unfortunately, the Internet can compromise you in ways you cannot even imagine. As I said in my post, I had always planned to give specifics to the folks putting on the test. I will post no more....on this topic here!


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## swampcollielover

John Gianladis said:


> The St. Louis Golden club is made up of some awesome retriever people! I have judged for them twice and competed in a number of their events. Jeanee, Pat, John, Sue, Sasha, and the rest of the club are hard workers. The Busch grounds are very nice, as well! I've chaired 7 licensed trials and judged about 40 stakes, not to mention thrown birds, shot, set up/broke down tests, picked up/dropped off judges at airports, lined up flyers, gunners, lunches, dinners, etc. etc. My point is, it's a lot of freakin work! There is rarely enough help and almost never any thanks. So not to freeload off of the original post, but instead a heartfelt thanks to Jeannee and the Golden Retriever Club!


Obviously, lots of great dog people were involved and attended the event, I am aware of all the hard work it takes.....all you say is true....that has noting to do with the fact that these tests was poorly run! If no one in this GRC St. Louis, will stand up and admit how bad it was, then they get what they get! Were we supposed to keep it quite? Would that help them change? I knew many folks would protect these people, even though they were not at the event! Common guys....be real!


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## swampcollielover

fishduck said:


> My one experience with this club was very different. Grounds were excellent. Site locations were well marked & easy to find. Club members were very gracious and helpful. Hotels & restaurants were close & very nice. All true this time, except for the signage! That was a mess for SH, one sign led to another sign, then you could chose which of the next 3 roads to take, as no more signs were used...
> 
> Besides my dog, three things go into my truck before I go to any hunt test. Bug spray, sunscreen & toilet paper. Hunt tests/field trials are almost always in rural areas. Bathrooms are going to be sparse. Be thankful for the running water & keep TP with you always! What do you use to wipe the crap off the toilet seats, floors and walls? Earlier I was trying to be more delicate...!
> 
> Inclement weather ALWAYS puts a strain on clubs. Someone (often bird technicians) doesn't show up at all or is extremely late. So extra duties get added to the faithful. It is impossible to do everything & help is desperately needed. That is exactly why I opened with the bad weather...comments..
> 
> Almost everyone working a test is doing so as a volunteer. It is often a thankless job. From the judges that gave up a 3 day weekend to the committee that has been planning for months. In all honesty, there are so many people that make a hunt test happen that you can't name them all. So, if all goes bad, really bad, we should all be quite about it? Sorry, not my style....I am not new to this game, and I do know how difficult it is to put these things on. I also know how well most of them are run!
> 
> On the really bad days, I will be in the field doing all I can to help.


  I believe you, but not everyone is physically able to do the work!


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## fishduck

The club had the intestinal fortitude to run an unlimited Master in an absolutely crazy environment. My thanks goes out to the Golden Retriever Club of St. Louis!!!!


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## Chris Atkinson

swampcollielover said:


> Chris,
> If you read my original post I was careful not to point out details of the failures of this club, but I did want perspective from other folks that attended! Hopefully, someone will actually read what I wrote who was at this event and give a different perspective. My decision not to put my personal information out is something many of you should consider. In todays world, unfortunately, the Internet can compromise you in ways you cannot even imagine. As I said in my post, I had always planned to give specifics to the folks putting on the test. I will post no more....on this topic here!


I assume the name you post under on the HRC forum is your real one. 

It is manipulative of you to choose to use the internet to call out specific individuals who sacrificed their weekends, their vacation pay, and other things to put on an event, while you hide behind your handle.

If you truly wanted to do it as yourself via standard channels you'd be mailing the AKC, Jerry Mann and the club. Not posting flack on this site.

After a private message to me plus the above quoted stating you'd not post on this topic anymore, you have chosen to do so not once, but twice.

I'm sure there were issues. I've heard about some of them. I've yet to see a perfect test or trial come off. 

If you choose to disagree, that's your call. 

Again, you made a very poor choice to use the internet as you have to call this club out. 

If you post as yourself on HRC, I'm not sure why you can't do so here. And if you can't do so here, I'd suggest you make your posts significantly less scathing. I believe posting a real name gives some credibility and some teeth to what you write.

I do believe with Jeannie that you are hiding behind a handle.

Chris Atkinson


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## swampcollielover

Chris,
i played a long with your game, yet you still went to a new level. The GRC is a public Organisation that solicited money and volunteers to help them make more money. If I had called out a trainer or individual I would agree with your position, but I did not go after an individual, I went after an organization, that failed in its mission. When people represent they are offering a hunt test, it is reasonable to expect a minimum of professionalism, which they did not provide! 

Somehow how you missed all of that! We're you at the events? I would bet not! Defend them at any cost if you must, I agreed to back down, but based on your biased comments...i ... Will.....not! 

Call me me by any name you want.......!


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## Chris Atkinson

swampcollielover said:


> Chris,
> i played a long with your game, yet you still went to a new level. The GRC is a public Organisation that solicited money and volunteers to help them make more money. If I had called out a trainer or individual I would agree with your position, but I did not go after an individual, I went after an organization, that failed in its mission. When people represent they are offering a hunt test, it is reasonable to expect a minimum of professionalism, which they did not provide!
> 
> Somehow how you missed all of that! We're you at the events? I would bet not! Defend them at any cost if you must, I agreed to back down, but based on your biased comments...i ... Will.....not!
> 
> Call me me by any name you want.......!


Actually you publicly stated for all that you would stop comment. 

Then you chose to not honor that commitment.


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## JS

swampcollielover said:


> I believe you, but not everyone is physically able to do the work!


If you are implying you are not able to pitch in and help out, then you should sit down, shut up and say thank you to those who are. Without them, there would be no tests for you to run anywhere.

This is a good club. I have run many of their events and they are good people who work hard to put on a good event and normally succeed. I don't know what did (or did not) happen this weekend but anyone who has been around the block knows that things can go wrong at times, no matter how well you may be prepared.

Not being there, I have to base my opinion on credibility ... GRC of St. Louis has credibility. You do not.

Classless and totally uncalled for.

JS


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## swampcollielover

JS said:


> If you are implying you are not able to pitch in and help out, then you should sit down, shut up and say thank you to those who are. Without them, there would be no tests for you to run anywhere.
> 
> This is a good club. I have run many of their events and they are good people who work hard to put on a good event and normally succeed. I don't know what did (or did not) happen this weekend but anyone who has been around the block knows that things can go wrong at times, no matter how well you may be prepared.
> 
> Not being there, I have to base my opinion on credibility ... GRC of St. Louis has credibility. You do not.
> 
> Classless and totally uncalled for.
> 
> JS


JS...nice try, why don't you go back to your UNION idiots in Iowa and continue posting Liberal nonsense on the political part of this forum, as you always do....we all no who you are !


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## swampcollielover

Chris Atkinson said:


> Actually you publicly stated for all that you would stop comment.
> 
> Then you chose to not honor that commitment.


Chris....you know exactly why I came back, you prompted it by your nosing around in my personal business, you could not have an intelligent conversation about this.....I would normally put someone like you on the ignore list, but as an Administrator you know I cannot just electronically ignore you. So I will do it now regardless.....

I am actually surprised that someone that is an administrator on this site would stoop so low to try and expose the name of someone that preferred it be kept private! Call Fox News to know who I really am...? 

A good BEWARE to all, the administrators will give your private information out if you upset them, so look out! Do not disagree with them!


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## Rip Shively

So I attended the event in question and ran in one of the Master stakes. Having judged a few times in my life (including for this club), not to mention help put on a few tests I recognize the amount of work that goes into putting on such an event. I commend the Golden Club for not limiting master entries plus offering a double senior and junior. It's really not my place to say things could have gone smoother, primarily because in doing so I might as well be throwing rocks at myself. We all can play a role in helping make these events go smoother, myself included.

As far as the senior test(s) in question I cannot comment. What I can comment on is many experienced judges will tell you that senior can be one of the more difficult stakes to judge. At the end of the day we should remember these folks volunteered to give up their time and had to endure some pretty miserable conditions. I've worked directly with Jeannie and others of the Golden Club and they do more than their fair share to help put on events. Thank you to Jeannie, John, Pat, and others from the Golden Club.


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## Chris Atkinson

Thanks to the folks who put on this event, thank you for your generosity. Without it, our game is dead. 

To the original poster, yes I did guess your name from the posts on the HRC board. It appears I was accurate. You will find that nowhere other than my private message to you have I posted that on this resource. 

As as I suggested privately, I urge you to follow proper channels using your real name with real correspondence if you truly feel that you were treated inequitably. 

I also thank you for your offer to discontinue further use of RTF. I would welcome you back if you want to use it fairly. But we are in agreement that you are best using other resources if this is your behavior of choice. 

Thanks, Chris.


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## Jamee Strange

Ok I don't normally do this but you have seriously overstepped here. Why don't you just go sit down and shut up!! I was at the event and have been multiple times and didn't have a problem with the way the tests were run. For a club to step up and put on an unlimited master test in a time when so many other clubs put on limited tests (and people b*(#$ about that too) plus a double junior and senior WITH an O/H Q should be praised instead of ridiculed! They even managed to scramble and find master judges at the last minute when they had judges back out and STILL managed to put on a test. Did you offer to step up and help or do you feel so entitled that you shouldn't have to? The statement you made about it being the club's responsibility to do all of that made me laugh. Without people and VOLUNTEERS to help, YOU would not be able to run your dog anywhere. Whether you put your name out there or not is irrelevant to me. It takes a pretty low person to jump out on the internet and tear these people down for doing something that in reality they didn't have to do! 

And as far as your complaints about the bathrooms-----are you kidding me??! If you don't like the public porta potties on the grounds, use the woods or a bush like you have to at every other trial or DRIVE TO THE GAS STATION that is less than 5 miles down the road. And as far as the signage goes- ALL of this club's signs have ARROWS underneath the stake designation so obviously you can't read very well if you missed that and didn't know which way to turn. Also, which ever side of the bed you woke up on the day you put all of this ridiculousness out there I suggest you avoid in the future. There is NO reason you should have come on here to tear these people down! That club gives so much to this sport putting on hunt tests and field trials EVERY spring and fall AND hosts a GIANT health clinic twice a year as well. You should be ashamed of yourself for doing this.

As for not putting your name out there- you are just a coward like everyone else said because this is a small group and a tight-knit community so you don't want to face the consequences of doing some seriously asinine public slandering. Chris didn't call you out although personally, I think he should. You give everyone else in this sport a BAD name and I seriously hope I don't ever have the unfortunate circumstance to meet you (and man do I hope I don't already know you). Grow up and get a life. 

And PS- maybe you should go out and train your dog instead of getting on this forum and complaining. Then MAYBE it can pass a Senior test . Just saying....


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## hotel4dogs

I wasn't at the tests, but I, too, have run in events sponsored by GRCSL and have nothing but good to say about them. Great club, great, hardworking members.
Regarding the tests....
Just looking briefly at the results, on Saturday 45-ish dogs ran. Of those, 26 passed, for a pass rate close to 60%. 
On Sunday, although there were 43 dogs originally entered, 11 scratched, which means only 32 ran. Of those, 5 passed, for a pass rate of 16%. While it's low, it's not unheard of at SH, especially if one is dealing with bad weather.


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## Erin O'Brien

I probably shouldn't comment, because I wasn't there, but your comments really annoyed me. What I think you need to understand is that people have the best intentions and things don't always go as planned. No one thinks on Thursday, I'm gonna go out and show whoever what's up and totally make their weekend miserable. All kinds of outside factors influence a weekend event, that often times, are out of the control of the FT or HT committee and judges. Sometimes I feel screwed or what have you, but I try to keep perspective and realize that no one is out to get me, and people are really doing the best with what they have. And believe me, there are jobs for everyone, even if you can't walk five feet, or have some sort of disability. Unidentified person, have you judged lately, marshaled, picked up lunches, worked as chairmen or secretary, or some other job? If not, you have no business complaining, and the only letter you should be writing is an application to join the club and help out this fall, but with your poor attitude, I'm not sure they'd want you.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B

I have stayed out of this as long as I can. My dear Mother taught me as a child "If you can't say something NICE, say Nothing at all". The club that you have bashed is a good group. They care about dogs period. The Senior judges on Sunday are my friends. I have judged with Sue and Jeannie owns one of the finest dogs I have ever judged. Between the two I cannot believe that your dog was unfairly judged. I just hope you have the good sense to pull this post and apologize profusely the the GRGSL for the insults. REMEMBER the dog world is a small one.


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## Criquetpas

I wasn't there but a very close family member judged one of the stakes. I asked the person first hand about the event and other then the weather the person had no complaints. I just don't understand a person who has some "cockamanny" excuses about not posting their name on a open forum, but, will do scathing remarks about an event on the same forum. Lots of class all of it low..See my name.


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## DuckCamp

I've read this entire thread and I only chose to respond to the original post.

I was there and left for home Sunday evening with similar thoughts. It was my first and probably my last time to run a hunt test near St Louis. I have always heard good things about the club in question and the tests they held. The double senior and junior were attractive draws. One of my senior dogs needed two more passes. She got the third on Saturday, but did not survive the first series on Sunday. Based on my one experience I could not recommend to a friend that they attend in the future. I too have a long list of complaints, but I'm not sure this is the forum to discuss any of them after seeing the way the original poster was treated. There are legitimate areas of concern that the club should address before holding another hunt test. A club member that I spoke with this weekend was nice enough to call me on the phone yesterday to discuss some of the issues ..... I hope the club takes a good look at the complaints ...... and listens .... instead of attacking those that attended and raised issues.

PS: I have no issues with weather or tp ....

PPSS: My name is Earl Thomas


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## Criquetpas

DuckCamp said:


> I've read this entire thread and I only chose to respond to the original post.
> 
> I was there and left for home Sunday evening with similar thoughts. It was my first and probably my last time to run a hunt test near St Louis. I have always heard good things about the club in question and the tests they held. The double senior and junior were attractive draws. One of my senior dogs needed two more passes. She got the third on Saturday, but did not survive the first series on Sunday. Based on my one experience I could not recommend to a friend that they attend in the future. I too have a long list of complaints, but I'm not sure this is the forum to discuss any of them after seeing the way the original poster was treated. There are legitimate areas of concern that the club should address before holding another hunt test. A club member that I spoke with this weekend was nice enough to call me on the phone yesterday to discuss some of the issues ..... I hope the club takes a good look at the complaints ...... and listens .... instead of attacking those that attended and raised issues.
> 
> PS: I have no issues with weather or tp ....
> 
> PPSS: My name is Earl Thomas


 And Earl from Earl I agree but not on a public forum should be addressed to the club and get the emotion out of it..or a phone call, been there as a judge and a contestant ...


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## waterfowler101

For those of you who are dying to know "swampcollielover" is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Edit by Atkinson - this was not cool.

Chris


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## Miriam Wade

swampcollielover said:


> Chris,
> i played a long with your game, yet you still went to a new level. The GRC is a public Organisation that solicited money and volunteers to help them make more money. If I had called out a trainer or individual I would agree with your position, but I did not go after an individual, I went after an organization, that failed in its mission. When people represent they are offering a hunt test, it is reasonable to expect a minimum of professionalism, which they did not provide!
> 
> Somehow how you missed all of that! We're you at the events? I would bet not! Defend them at any cost if you must, I agreed to back down, but based on your biased comments...i ... Will.....not!
> 
> Call me me by any name you want.......!


Well-here goes nothing, but as has been pointed out-this "organization" is made up of volunteers. Some club members show up just to work without even having a dog to run. I have been to events where the club was so understaffed that without non-members stepping up there is no way the test could have been run. These people didn't sit back and watch the test unravel so they could publicly complain about it later. They did what anyone who wants to help a fellow dog person would do, which is anything they were needed to. I have marshalled before where non-members have come out of the woodwork to help out and, when I tried to send home the ones who lived quite a distance away, they insisted on staying until the test was finished. 

You are within your rights (I suppose) to complain because you paid an entry fee and felt inconvenienced, but I hope you know how many people are more than happy to jump in and help when they see the need.

As for pass/fail rates. Who knows how many dogs were Senior dogs THAT day. The judges can't pass dogs to fill a quota. The dog has to do the work.

I really hope you don't exhibit such a negative attitude around your dog because if so, he/she must be miserable.

M


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## waterfowler101

XXXXXXXXXXX AKA "Swampcollielover" also goes by the alias of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Edits by Atkinson - not cool.


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## caryalsobrook

DuckCamp said:


> I've read this entire thread and I only chose to respond to the original post.
> 
> I was there and left for home Sunday evening with similar thoughts. It was my first and probably my last time to run a hunt test near St Louis. I have always heard good things about the club in question and the tests they held. The double senior and junior were attractive draws. One of my senior dogs needed two more passes. She got the third on Saturday, but did not survive the first series on Sunday. Based on my one experience I could not recommend to a friend that they attend in the future. I too have a long list of complaints, but I'm not sure this is the forum to discuss any of them after seeing the way the original poster was treated. There are legitimate areas of concern that the club should address before holding another hunt test. A club member that I spoke with this weekend was nice enough to call me on the phone yesterday to discuss some of the issues ..... I hope the club takes a good look at the complaints ...... and listens .... instead of attacking those that attended and raised issues.
> 
> PS: I have no issues with weather or tp ....
> 
> PPSS: My name is Earl Thomas


You did right in expressing your concerns to a club member. Hopefully, if you expressed them in an objective and logical manner, the club will evaluate them and act accordingly. Let me give you something to think about. If you never go back again, you will never know whether your concerns received attention or not. Furthermore you will not have given the club the opportunity to show you that it took appropriate action, something that I would consider sad for the both of you.

Now looking at the positive of this thread, it is gratifying that so many recognize the value of those that volunteer. Every so often, I still go to the dictionary and look up the definition of "volunteer", someone who gives their time and resources without pay(and I consider that also to mean without special consideration). All who volunteer, no matter how much time and resources or how little deserve a sincere "thank you" for their efforts, for that is their true reward. Just offering to check on the dogs of someone who is working on a very hot day can be of great help, Asking where is the best place to park and not be in the way can help. I can remember when I had to drive my 4-wheeler pulling the trailer with the equipment for the next series and needed someone to drive my truck. Seems a little thing but was necessary. 

As a friend always says, "nothing is all good and nothing is all bad". The good in this thread is that there are many who recognize the value of a volunteer and sincerely appreciate their efforts and there are volunteers that know that there are many who SINCERELY APPRECIATE their efforts.


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## Marvin S

Criquetpas said:


> I wasn't there but a very close family member judged one of the stakes. I asked the person first hand about the event and other then the weather the person had no complaints. I just don't understand a person who has some "cockamanny" excuses about not posting their name on a open forum, but, will do scathing remarks about an event on the same forum. Lots of class all of it low..See my name.


You don't spend as much time on the POTUS forum as I do. The remarks of the OP are not surprising 
but his remarks generally lack merit, even by POTUS standards. It is unfortunate when someone believes
they are above the fray enough that failing to follow proper protocol in addressing a complaint is used & 
they still lack the mental capacity to back off when that is presented to them. 

My concern is that all posters using POTUS will be judged as being of Swampy's ilk. Petulant regards .


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## mjh345

Swampie, you have made over 3000 posts on this website. A large number of your posts have been ill informed and insulting. When someone points out your errors you routinely insult their intelligence and eventually put them on ignore. Thereby showing that not only were you frequently wrong, but more importantly that you were so small minded that you wouldn't even consider listening to opposing viewpoints; thereby assuring that you would remain uninformed. Sadly it is now apparent that the lack of class & inability to understand issues that you display on POTUS is not limited to politics Thankfully, Most of your 3000+ posts have been confined to POTUS. I have looked forward to the maudlin entertainment value of your posts with great amusement. 

This however crosses the line!! This is a Dog Forum. On POTUS your act was harmless & amusing. Your ignorance has now lost it's nominal entertainment value, and is now purely hateful and harmful to the dog games we all enjoy.
On POTUS you frequently rail on about lower class people and their entitlement mentality. Another subject you put emphasis on being self sufficient and not having a victim mentality. I recall you blasting the practice of not keeping score in kids games and giving every kid a trophy. Try some self evaluation and look in the mirror Your judgmental hypocrisy is VERY evident here on all of those points.


Jeannie called you a coward for not revealing your name. I respect your right to not reveal your name. I know your name, and won't reveal it; but I agree with her that you are a coward. You are also a hypocritical, whining, self righteous, condescending, ill informed A**HOLE!!! In case you missed it earlier, you also have the sense of entitlement and a victim mentality that you curse others for.


Your post threw the Sunday Sr Judges under the bus. Let me tell you a few things about these two judges. First they gave up their weekend to judge this event and create a venue for you to run your dog; FOR NO PAY. They were there for every dog. They were also there the day before to look at the grounds to set up nice fair safe tests. They couldn't get out of the rain and weather. Both of these ladies contribute so much more than by just judging. They both have served on many HT and FT committees for multiple clubs. The planning and work in putting together one of these events is usually measured in years.
 Jeannie Greenlee took the lead & played a huge role in formulating the 100+ page proposal to bring The 2016 Master National to St. Louis. I was told by the Master National Board members that this proposal blew them away with its detail and will set a new standard going forward. Sue George and her husband operate one of the best training facilities in the country. I train my own dogs. However if I ever decide to use a Pro they would be who I would go to. They are top notch. They not only take the dogs to the highest level but treat them with respect. Sue also reaches out to newcomers and frequently organizes free training days for them. Both of these ladies work full time jobs and do this for no pay out of love of the games. Everyone who competes in HT's and FT's benefits from the selfless volunteering that goes on behind the scenes by these people. We all owe them gratitude. Your post is a kick in the teeth to two fine people who are a huge asset to our sport 




I didn't run this event. However I have run many FT's & HT's hosted by this club. I agree with the other posters who had enjoyable experiences every time. This club has a good core group of dedicated workers. Your post also threw these behind the scenes people under the bus. You obviously know nothing about what it takes to put on an event. The most important ingredient are these people whom you rudely threw under the bus.Most clubs are short on active participants. Thus many volunteers have to help at multiple clubs, as these two ladies do, in order to keep them going. If posts like yours make these few valuable resources say "to hell with it" then we could have some real problems in numerous clubs. 


I run and live in the same area that you do. I have never seen your name on a HT committee or seen or heard of you assisting at any events. These events don't just happen by magic. Your entry fee pays for much of the neccessary expenses. However you can't purchase the knowledge and dedication that the HT committee needs to put one of these together
 I would suggest that you might want to volunteer and become part of the solution to the manpower shortage. You imply a handicap. I can assure you that there are plenty of duties that a handicapped person can and have filled; both prior to and at the event


In closing I would say that you claim this was the worst test you have ever been to. As Jeannie indicated there is a process for complaints. For instance If you had a situation where your dog had 7 or 8 no birds then there needs to be some corrections in the mechanics or manpower at the test Jeannie, Sue and all the club members are professional and take pride. As such they would learn from and address any legitimate complaints you had
 From what I read you had 3 main complaints You complained about the weather and the toilets. The club can not control either of those issues. You also complained that only 5 out of 40 or so dogs passed. Let me assure you that both of these ladies would love to pass every dog. They are well known for being upbeat positive encouraging judges, who give the benefit of any doubt to the dog. However, they have a job to do and a standard that must be met. I can assure you that the dogs that didn't pass didn't meet the standard on that day
If your dog passed then congratulations!! If not then the best advice I can give is this piece of wisdom.........


Train, don't complain


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## Bug

mjh345 I like your post, but who are you. 
Regards, Marty Kress


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## 2dc

To the op it's sounds like you like to complain about anything that doesn't go your way. If you ever decide to run another test if it's not going the way you would like it to why not ask the club what you could do to help out instead of complaining. In the last 4 years of running tests I have helped out at everyone in some way and I judged a test a few weeks ago and I arrived early every day to help setup the test so they could use the club members to get the masters started.


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## mjh345

Bug said:


> mjh345 I like your post, but who are you.
> Regards, Marty Kress


Hey Marty, I am Marc Healey
Hope all is well with you and Dave and the dogs


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B

Mark that was a GREAT post. I don't have a nack for words but you NAILED it.


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## Wayne Nutt

My comments:
I have been in several tests where there was a low pass rates.
An akc senior where only about 7 or 8 dogs passed, twice I think. In both instances I was fortunate and passed. But I watched most of the dogs run and the dogs took themselves out.

An hrc finished with a low pass rate with both of my dogs failing. The next day I came back and passed both dogs with only about eight total passing. Again the failing dogs took themselves out.

I thought all the tests were fair and met the standards. I have only been in two tests where I thought I was failed and should have passed. I likewise have been in a couple of tests where I passed and thought I should have failed. Most of the time it evens out.

When I fail I generally just grumble to myself and move on to the next one while trying to remedy the issues.

I don't understand why people don't want any information about them on this forum. Often the lack of information hinders help in providing a good response to a question.


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## blind ambition

Marc that was a great post! Thank you for putting into words the essence of the responsibility that all of us have to make our events as enjoyable and rewarding as possible for everyone, _including_ those who work tirelessly to pull them off.


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