# Another Boykin question



## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

I've mostly hunted over Vizsla's, GSP & Britts... Had to put my Vizsla down last year at 9yrs with cancer... still having a hard time with it and no dog this season... anyway, time for a new dog. My wife wants a smaller dog & I have to have a hunting dog. Needs to be versatile! I like NAVHDA, I decided on a Brittany and found a good breeder with good bloodlines etc... anyway, I'm looking through a cataloge yesterday and see a little dog advertising a neoprene dog vest, thought is was a puddle pointer or something... turns out to be a Boykin. What the heck is a Boykin... made a few calls, no info on the breed, researched and found some basic stuff... friend on another forum (theoutdoorsforum.com) suggested I look over here. 
Q; are there any breeders in California? I don't care about show, agility, field trials etc... (though I may run a few field trials just for fun).... needs to be a good family dog & hunt!
I don't mind traveling any distance to get a good dog... I know blood lines & training have a lot to do with it... 
I would get another Vizsla in a heart beat, but I also like being married too ... I know I said a lot there with only one question... but the next dog I get will be us for the next 10yrs+ we will also, most likely be getting another dog in a year and I would really like to see these dogs work.... 
Q; anybody seen these dogs work in the retriever trials on the west coast? (I'm in OC), so I don't mind driving...
thanks!


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

You wife will like the Boykin, she can tie pretty pink ribbons around the brown possum's curly ears! LOL


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## Gun Dawg (Dec 18, 2010)

Yo DOP,

You might want to contact the owners of "Duke of Earl", They're great people...... 
Breed: Boykin Spaniel - "Duke of Earl"
Owners: Elroy and Lorri Olson, Deer Island, Oregon
Titles: 500 point HRC Champion
http://www.lowercolumbiahrc.org/page2/page2.html


Found it - Elroy/Lorri Olson [email protected]


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

Lots of Boykins here on the East Coast. GRHRCH dogs are growing! Duckquilizer sounds like your jealous. Must have gotten beaten by one!

http://www.boykinspaniel.org/

I own three myself.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Find Elroy in Oregon. I can't find his email but, it is riverpilot something? Someone here surely can PM his contact info to you.


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## Rick Vaughan (Sep 4, 2012)

_*Just about anyone in NC or SC are familiar with Boykins...the breed was developed in Boykin, SC...thus the breed name Boykin! Great "little" dogs with big hearts!*_


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks for some direction... anymore info would be greatly appreciated... my daughter would love to ty pink ribbons on a dog... but she prefers pink camo... I teach jr. high, so nothing phases me...


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## JoeOverby (Jan 2, 2010)

Get a hold of Blaine Tarnecki. He is on here. BlaineT I believe. Also Dan Reel. Two of the nicest most knowledgeable Possum guys I know.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

DOG ON POINT said:


> Thanks for some direction... anymore info would be greatly appreciated... my daughter would love to ty pink ribbons on a dog... but she prefers pink camo... I teach jr. high, so nothing phases me...


Boykin Spaniel Society has a wealth of information regarding the breed if you haven't checked there yet
http://www.boykinspaniel.org

http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...el-Need-suggestions!&highlight=boykin+spaniel


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Rick Vaughan said:


> _*Great "little" dogs with big hearts!*_


With big hauls too.



















The "10+ years" counted on for working a gundog runs true with Boykins - Cracker's soon to blow out the candles 










for turning 12 - when she gets a little time between "loading and reloading"...

And Boykins ain't possums either, the stub tail'll tell you that - They're better labeled as "mud poodles."

MG


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## Erik Nilsson (Jan 16, 2011)

^^^^^^ Yeah Buddy! The lil' Brown dogs are fun to watch.


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## sick lids (Sep 25, 2012)

What is the diffrence between a boykin and a aws, I thought aws's orignated in wi. , I belive it's our state dog.


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## Lonnie Spann (May 14, 2012)

The AWS is a little larger and has a tail.

Lonster


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Lonster said:


> The AWS is a little larger and has a tail.
> 
> Lonster


 That's not exactly an accurate statement except for the tail. There are many different "types" of Boykin Spaniels..some ranging from barely 20 lbs and under to Boykins as big as small Labradors. There's also several different types of "coat" in the Boykin Spaniel breed.


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

All poking aside check with Kim Smith(on here regular). He has some dogs that are "1sts to be" in the test world and some very nice pups too. He's also on facebook and keeps posting irratating pictures of baby possums...

http://www.kjlabs.com/


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Quackwacker said:


> Lots of Boykins here on the East Coast. GRHRCH dogs are growing! Duckquilizer sounds like your jealous. Must have gotten beaten by one!
> 
> http://www.boykinspaniel.org/
> 
> I own three myself.


No just watched a poor Pro from SC beat his head against the wall a few months ago. LOL He somehow managed to get 6 of his 8 dogs on his truck to be boykins. They are not for the light-hearted. I can see how being a Junior High teacher would help here and is probably right up his alley...;-)

Death wish reguards...


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Duckquilizer said:


> No just watched a poor Pro from SC beat his head against the wall a few months ago. LOL He somehow managed to get 6 of his 8 dogs on his truck to be boykins. They are not for the light-hearted. I can see how being a Junior High teacher would help here and is probably right up his alley...;-)
> 
> Death wish reguards...


So what you're saying is he was down on himself as a "poor pro" because he could only train Labs but not other retrievers?

Junior high - or Junior Hunter - logic regards,

MG


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## Lonnie Spann (May 14, 2012)

frontier said:


> That's not exactly an accurate statement except for the tail. There are many different "types" of Boykin Spaniels..some ranging from barely 20 lbs and under to Boykins as big as small Labradors. There's also several different types of "coat" in the Boykin Spaniel breed.


Frontier,

I didn't intend to step on anyone's toes with my remark. I happen to have a little bit of knowledge regarding Boykins. I purchased a Boykin pup 5 years ago. It was a pup sired by Mule, LONG legs, dark chocolate colored and mean as a damn snake! It would have been easier force fetching a damn wolf than that dog. She now lives with a pro in Arkansas. To say that I'm not a fan of the breed would be an understatement.

That being said, I do like to watch the little dogs, I just don't want to own another one ;-)

Kim Smith does have some really nice Boykins. 

Lonster


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Lonster said:


> Frontier,
> 
> I didn't intend to step on anyone's toes with my remark. I happen to have a little bit of knowledge regarding Boykins. I purchased a Boykin pup 5 years ago. It was a pup sired by Mule, LONG legs, dark chocolate colored and mean as a damn snake! It would have been easier force fetching a damn wolf than that dog. She now lives with a pro in Arkansas. To say that I'm not a fan of the breed would be an understatement.
> 
> ...


Too bad you gave up the Boykin Spaniel based on your experience with a single dog. There are many Boykin breeders who are dedicated to this breed even though the health challenges are far greater than other breeds like the Labrador Retriever.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

frontier said:


> Too bad you gave up the Boykin Spaniel based on your experience with a single dog. There are many Boykin breeders who are dedicated to this breed even though the health challenges of this breed are far greater than other breeds like the Labrador Retriever.


aint that the truth! and I've NEVER had a lab that was hard to FF.( roll eyes)


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

crackerd said:


> So what you're saying is he was down on himself as a "poor pro" because he could only train Labs but not other retrievers?
> 
> Junior high - or Junior Hunter - logic regards,
> 
> MG


Nice...but she's a HR-SR level dog without the opportunity for ribbons yet. But thanks for trying to gauge my opinion on my 19 month old. I work at 8 HT's minimum per year plus 1-2 FT's and will, more than likely, be judging this year. 

I can also tell after seeing a large number of these little guys, that they are not for the faint of heart. He was not the first guy and not the last to get frustrated with a boykin. Ever heard anyone say, "Man that was an easy dog to train?" when speaking of a boykin?


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

As a matter of fact, duck, it ain't that hard - if you know how to train a retriever. The Brits - who know a thing or two about both - say that Labs are born half-trained and spaniels die half-trained. Boykins are spaniels that are born retrieving - if you can't train them _*to*_ retrieve, it's on you, or your "poor pro" - not the breed.

My FT training partners used to ask, How do you get that little dog to carry those long overs? Well, you see, most spaniels quarter quite naturally, including Boykins, so they take these nice flat casts from side to side. So, yes, making a Boykin the eas_*iest*_ dog I ever put through the double-T, swimby and to the Boykin's credit as a retrieving spaniel, straightest lines on pattern blinds without fading - probably because they're so low to the ground.

"Easy to train?" - you mean they have to be trained, so I gotta expend the time and effort with them, just like with any other retriever, right? Thought so...

MG


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

I love the breed and I'm pretty high on them. Yes they train differently then a lab, but I enjoy the change. You have to be patient and take your time. They are no 90 day wonders that's for sure.










Hank Huckaby. 2 years old and running Senior successfully with his owner. He's a pretty good hunting dog too!!!

Angie


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

what about other aspects as far as flushing... are they big runners? are the steady on the flush? retrieving shouldn't be a problem... I've only hunted with pointing breeds... my dog found and brought back everything... do these dogs have a temper? we have a very busy house! always people over.... the dog will be well socialized, but snapping or aggressive behavior can't be tolerated... I have been able to find Earl from Oregon.. thanks for the heads up. would still like to see theys guys in action...


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I don't know of any West coast breeders, I can recommend Brandywine Creek boykins. http://www.brandywinecreekboykins.com/ Check them out on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/331775494483/ you'll see posts from brandywine owners from various parts of the country doing a variety of hunting.









I picked up this little girl in June for my wife, it's her lap dog but may be what gets my wife involved in the hunt test games. Just starting hold/FF training with her now.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

I've found that they are a "busy" dog. Always moving. Temperaments are great, no aggression issues. My clients have used their dogs for waterfowling but I don't see why you couldn't teach them to sit to the flush. Since they are a flushing dog they will naturally go in and flush the bird. You can teach them to quarter and work tight just like any other flushing breed.

Angie


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

They can be taught to be steady to flush and are expected to be in tests, cover the ground hard and fast. The do well in the retriever tests also, and can readily be taught to handle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgHpvyyhIs4&feature=player_embedded


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Angie B said:


> I've found that they are a "busy" dog. Always moving. Temperaments are great, no aggression issues. My clients have used their dogs for waterfowling but I don't see why you couldn't teach them to sit to the flush. Since they are a flushing dog they will naturally go in and flush the bird. You can teach them to quarter and work tight just like any other flushing breed.
> 
> Angie


 The majority of Boykins I've owned over the last 15 plus years have had wonderful temperaments, but I've purchased a couple puppies from outside breeders that were not of the quality temperaments I require in my breeding program. Both dogs were spayed/neutered and rehomed to adult homes (no children) and no other dogs. 

Also ensure that the breeder you select is testing for Exercise Induced Collapse (EIC), because of the Boykins EIC tested so far, the carrier ratio in Boykins is similiar to the carrier ratio of EIC in Labrador Retrievers. The breed also has #14 incidence of Hip Dysplasia, cardiac issues, patella problems, numerous hereditary eye issues that can be mild to causing blindness, and epilepsy, thryoid, along with allergies, lots of skin and ear issues.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

DOG ON POINT said:


> what about other aspects as far as flushing... are they big runners? are the steady on the flush? retrieving shouldn't be a problem... I've only hunted with pointing breeds... my dog found and brought back everything... do these dogs have a temper? we have a very busy house! always people over.... the dog will be well socialized, but snapping or aggressive behavior can't be tolerated... I have been able to find Earl from Oregon.. thanks for the heads up. would still like to see theys guys in action...





Angie B said:


> I've found that they are a "busy" dog. Always moving. Temperaments are great, no aggression issues. My clients have used their dogs for waterfowling but I don't see why you couldn't teach them to sit to the flush. Since they are a flushing dog they will naturally go in and flush the bird. You can teach them to quarter and work tight just like any other flushing breed.
> 
> Angie





Bud said:


> They can be taught to be steady to flush and are expected to be in tests, cover the ground hard and fast. The do well in the retriever tests also, and can readily be taught to handle.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgHpvyyhIs4&feature=player_embedded
> 
> View attachment 10161


http://www.boykinspaniel.org/upland_test_info.php


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

@ Quackwacker funny I literally was just checking out the National Field trial Entry, we are going to try and make it there this year. It'll be our first go at it. Unfortunately, won't make it to the upland. Thanks for the heads up though.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

Bud said:


> @ Quackwacker funny I literally was just checking out the National Field trial Entry, we are going to try and make it there this year. It'll be our first go at it. Unfortunately, won't make it to the upland. Thanks for the heads up though.


Bud, I hope to make it this year with a new pup myself! Hope to see you there!


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Some boykins are real nice. Some not so much.hope this insight helps.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

BlaineT said:


> Some boykins are real nice. Some not so much.hope this insight helps.


Sounds like any other breed....

Angie


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Angie B said:


> Sounds like any other breed....
> 
> Angie


It does doesn't it Angie....lol

Seriously they can be great dogs...
I've had several, and have one real nice young male 17 months old that ill be running in Open at the Nationals this spring. He's a tad moody (which is how I describe training them). They can be obstinate especially when you are in big dog work. But he's a joy to hunt with and seems to show up on game day. 

I've FFd, I think 5 of them in the last couple years. Never had any issues other than sometimes they're so wired and active you gotta head lock them to keep them still. 

I follow a typical Carr based formula but there are times you have to adjust tactics. 
I think Angie said it best there are no 90 day wonders. 

the good ones are fun to watch and be with. 

But the ones that prance out to the marks at tests real prissy like can be brutal.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

"Not for the faint of heart" - 










Ain't no telling what 23 pounds of terror can get up to...










including hallucinating that they might have to outgrow having a canine Napoleon syndrome






































Flushing and hupping to it is such an imposition on their busy time...but when they do sit still, they sit for a long and mighty companionable time. None better at it in my experience with Boykins and (plenty of) other breeds going back 50-odd years.

MG


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Great pics crackerd


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## luvmylabs23139 (Jun 4, 2005)

Rick Vaughan said:


> _*Just about anyone in NC or SC are familiar with Boykins...the breed was developed in Boykin, SC...thus the breed name Boykin! Great "little" dogs with big hearts!*_


Not really. Not one boykin has ever been in the building of our ob club (somewhat down the street from you) when I've been in the building and I'm there a lot.


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

Duckquilizer said:


> Nice...but she's a HR-SR level dog without the opportunity for ribbons yet. But thanks for trying to gauge my opinion on my 19 month old. I work at 8 HT's minimum per year plus 1-2 FT's and will, more than likely, be judging this year.
> 
> I can also tell after seeing a large number of these little guys, that they are not for the faint of heart. He was not the first guy and not the last to get frustrated with a boykin. Ever heard anyone say, "Man that was an easy dog to train?" when speaking of a boykin?




Mine was very easy to train. Not many retrievers have a Grand Title as well as a Master National pass. He's never failed an AKC hunt Test and has almost 2000 HRC points. So you can now say you have heard ""Man that was an easy dog to train?" when speaking of a boykin?"

Crackered, keep the pics comin


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Esylivin said:


> Mine was very easy to train. Not many retrievers have a Grand Title as well as a Master National pass. He's never failed an AKC hunt Test and has almost 2000 HRC points. So you can now say you have heard ""Man that was an easy dog to train?" when speaking of a boykin?"
> 
> Crackered, keep the pics comin


stop dan. don't start bringing in real life facts here.......lol


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## Rick Vaughan (Sep 4, 2012)

luvmylabs23139 said:


> Not really. Not one boykin has ever been in the building of our ob club (somewhat down the street from you) when I've been in the building and I'm there a lot.


*I'm seeing Boykins at more and more Hunt Test in NC/SC...it's not unusual to have 2 or 3 running in Jr/Sr tests this past fall. I have a neighbor that has a pet Boykin and another friend who owns a second Boykin after losing the first one to old age...all in NC. They are not as abundant as Labs, but give the breed some time. By the way, I don't ever remember being in your ob club building (although I have no idea what/where it is) either so what does that make me?*


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## luvmylabs23139 (Jun 4, 2005)

Rick Vaughan said:


> *I'm seeing Boykins at more and more Hunt Test in NC/SC...it's not unusual to have 2 or 3 running in Jr/Sr tests this past fall. I have a neighbor that has a pet Boykin and another friend who owns a second Boykin after losing the first one to old age...all in NC. They are not as abundant as Labs, but give the breed some time. By the way, I don't ever remember being in your ob club building (although I have no idea what/where it is) either so what does that make me?*


only that I see alot of breeds come thru that I never see anywhere else other than there and I have yet to see a Boykin. not at class, an ob trial, a cgc test.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

luvmylabs23139 said:


> Not one boykin has ever been in the building of our ob club (somewhat down the street from you) when I've been in the building and I'm there a lot.


The more germane question might be, "Has a Boykin ever seen _*you*_ in a dove field, duck blind or goose pit, or wherever else 










they might work afield?" - 










because _*they're*_ there a lot.

Esy, I'll keep the photos comin' if you keep the Chief pups a'comin' when I'm needing another Boykin.

MG


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Esylivin said:


> Mine was very easy to train. Not many retrievers have a Grand Title as well as a Master National pass. He's never failed an AKC hunt Test and has almost 2000 HRC points. So you can now say you have heard ""Man that was an easy dog to train?" when speaking of a boykin?"
> 
> Crackered, keep the pics comin


Those are great looking dogs! Did Stephen train yours or you? Either way, nice job!

I never said they could not do the work, only that it maybe be slightly more "challenging". I certainly like the fact you are helping the breed by pushing forward and doing a fine job. I like seeing the cocky little guys come back to the line with the "bird in mouth, look at me, chest out, strut!" You can't help but smile...


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Angie B said:


> I love the breed and I'm pretty high on them. Yes they train differently then a lab, but I enjoy the change. You have to be patient and take your time. They are no 90 day wonders that's for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice looking dog! I recently pheasant hunted with Broadbill and his Boykin, Rebel. These Boykins can hunt!


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Esylivin said:


> Mine was very easy to train. Not many retrievers have a Grand Title as well as a Master National pass. He's never failed an AKC hunt Test and has almost 2000 HRC points. So you can now say you have heard ""Man that was an easy dog to train?" when speaking of a boykin?"
> 
> Crackered, keep the pics comin


Very cool!!! I think we need to talk!

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Love the pics Crackered!!! Keep em coming!!!!

Angie


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

DOP

An opinion. I have seen a few Boykins in the field, there are at least 4 in our training group. From what I have seen it seems that you should be cautious about the breeding. I have seen differences in appearance, drive, and temperament. I know that I have not seen enough to really come to a valid conclusion but the variety did surprise me a bit.

As far as hunting goes, Broadbill uses Rebel hunting ducks, hunting the uplands, does HRC and AKC testing. I really think Boykins are excellent gundogs.


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

a few more pics of boykins doing the work...










and they will get wet....


















the shot flier last spring in a senior hunt test we we ran at 12 months...6 labs and a Toller went before us. 3 labs had to handle to the mark. 3 went out on this bird and the Toller never got in the right area code. Must have been the thick cover...


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> DOP
> 
> An opinion. I have seen a few Boykins in the field, there are at least 4 in our training group. From what I have seen it seems that you should be cautious about the breeding. I have seen differences in appearance, drive, and temperament. I know that I have not seen enough to really come to a valid conclusion but the variety did surprise me a bit.
> 
> As far as hunting goes, Broadbill uses Rebel hunting ducks, hunting the uplands, does HRC and AKC testing. I really think Boykins are excellent gundogs.


This is very true and happens quite often in a new or off breed. You're gene pool is rather small and everyone wants to outcross due to the lack of understanding in regards to inbreeding. Also many are pet owners who see things quite differently then those of us who actually work and compete our dogs.

This attitude is very frustrating and you have to weed out a lot of "breeders" before you find one that really has a grasp or even a partial grasp of what the breed is about.

Angie


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

> I have seen differences in appearance, drive, and temperament. I know that I have not seen enough to really come to a valid conclusion but the variety did surprise me a bit.


Is that any different than Labs, Goldens, Chessies or any other established retriever breed?

So they "present a challenge for training?" Maybe you meant they _*like*_ a challenge










after they're trained, and always take it on with a sparkle in their eye?










MG


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

crackerd

Actually it is. Of course there is some variety but I have seen appearancewise Boykins who look like they are different breeds, questionable temperament (not spaniel rage, something else), and OK drive vs. "I want to hunt with that dog" type of drive. Again, four dogs is not enough but had I looked at four field goldens I would expect a narrower range of type. Just my opinion. I am certainly not critical. I like Boykins a lot.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Angie B said:


> This is very true and happens quite often in a new or off breed. You're gene pool is rather small and everyone wants to outcross due to the lack of understanding in regards to inbreeding. Also many are pet owners who see things quite differently then those of us who actually work and compete our dogs.
> 
> This attitude is very frustrating and you have to weed out a lot of "breeders" before you find one that really has a grasp or even a partial grasp of what the breed is about.
> 
> Angie


 And because the genepool is so small, linebreeding with the genetic health issues in this breed and irresponsible breeding can adversely influence the next generation of Boykins much more than a diverse genepool like the Labrador Retrievers. There are way too many high volume, backyard and puppy mill breeders, and just plain uneducated individuals in this breed that continue to produce hundreds of pups annually and don't even take the time to screen for OFA hips on their breeding stock, not to mention the many other genetic health issues this breed faces. It's quite alarming for those of us who care for the health of this breed for future generations.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

frontier said:


> And because the genepool is so small, linebreeding with the genetic health issues in this breed and irresponsible breeding can adversely influence the next generation of Boykins much more than a diverse genepool like the Labrador Retrievers. There are way too many high volume, backyard and puppy mill breeders, and just plain uneducated individuals in this breed that continue to produce hundreds of pups annually and don't even have take the time to screen for OFA hips on their breeding stock, not to mention the many other genetic health issues this breed faces. It's quite alarming for those of us who care for the health of this breed for future generations.


Agreed,,,, 

Angie


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## Hairy Dawg (Mar 8, 2009)

Well, all I can say is that the ones I've trained have been very easy to work with. In fact, It's hard for me to imagine a dog that's easier to train than what Reese has been. Very eager to please, & has no problem doing the work. Also extremely fun to hunt with.





































Breaking Ice


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## Hairy Dawg (Mar 8, 2009)

A couple more pics


Crackerd inspired photo


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## Dos Patos (Oct 15, 2012)

I love the pics guys.I had the opportunity to see one work in a dove field and told myself I would have one someday.He was an awseome lil marking machine.


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

thanks for some of the pm's... sorry I can't reply until I have 10 posts... this is #4. lots of good info, thanks... my one questions is one "group" of people should I aviod... boykin society or something like.. I've read that there is a splinter group that has low standards on the genetics of these dogs and their breeding practices... thanks.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

Angie B said:


> This is very true and happens quite often in a new or off breed. You're gene pool is rather small and everyone wants to outcross due to the lack of understanding in regards to inbreeding. Also many are pet owners who see things quite differently then those of us who actually work and compete our dogs.
> 
> This attitude is very frustrating and you have to weed out a lot of "breeders" before you find one that really has a grasp or even a partial grasp of what the breed is about.
> 
> Angie


Angie it is so refreshing to see people that think like Blaine T, Hairy Dog and I do. We are trying hard to keep the hunt in the Boykins here in Ga. but because they are such "good" dogs, people are breeding and snatching them up for lap dogs at an alarming rate. Hairy Dogs Reese is the sire of my last litter and my 5 mth old Jessie is a go getter! Thanks for your love of the breed!

Wes


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

DOG ON POINT said:


> thanks for some of the pm's... sorry I can't reply until I have 10 posts... this is #4. lots of good info, thanks... my one questions is one "group" of people should I aviod... boykin society or something like.. I've read that there is a splinter group that has low standards on the genetics of these dogs and their breeding practices... thanks.


Boykins have only recently been registered by the AKC ( last two years). Before that, only the Boykin Spaniel Society had a registry for the breed. While there are no rules on health clearances to breed and register Boykins just like other breeds, some of us are working hard to correct some of the issues. My advise would be to only buy a pup that the parents have had all health clearances done.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

Here is the Brown Dog Mafia from Georgia


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

because there are already enough lab pics on this forum....figured we could load this one up with more Boykin pics.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Quackwacker said:


> Boykins have only recently been registered by the AKC ( last two years). Before that, only the Boykin Spaniel Society had a registry for the breed. While there are no rules on health clearances to breed and register Boykins just like other breeds, some of us are working hard to correct some of the issues. My advise would be to only buy a pup that the parents have had all health clearances done.



Actually, the Boykin Spaniel became eligible for full AKC registration, December 30, 2009 and was eligible for competition in the Sporting Group, effective January 1, 2010. However, the Boykin Spaniel was recorded in the AKC Foundation Stock Service since 1997.
It's been stated before, buy from a reputable breeder that is performing the required health clearances. That's far more important to your selection than which registry you choose to participate in... If your Boykin develops crippling severe hip dysplasia or goes blind or is severely affected from Exercise Induced Collapse, no matter how much desire, drive, and birdiness he has, he cannot fulfill the goals you have for him as a hunting companion.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)




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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

here's one of the responses I got from a lab friend out here about watching boykins work...
Boykins are not eligible to run AKC Retriever Field Trials but were approved for Retriever Hunt Tests about a year ago. We mostly run trials but I did enter a few hunt tests this year. We run at Master and there were no Boykins entered at that level. I am not sure if any ran at the lower levels. You can go through the retriever hunt test entries on Entry Express and see if any were entered this last year and see if they qualified.

The main venue for Boykins are Spaniel trials and hunt tests. I would check out the entries at those events. I am not sure where they are listed.

Good luck!


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

DOG ON POINT said:


> here's one of the responses I got from a lab friend out here about watching boykins work...
> Boykins are not eligible to run AKC Retriever Field Trials but were approved for Retriever Hunt Tests about a year ago. We mostly run trials but I did enter a few hunt tests this year. We run at Master and there were no Boykins entered at that level. I am not sure if any ran at the lower levels. You can go through the retriever hunt test entries on Entry Express and see if any were entered this last year and see if they qualified.
> 
> The main venue for Boykins are Spaniel trials and hunt tests. I would check out the entries at those events. I am not sure where they are listed.
> ...


yes that is true. they cannot run in AKC Field trials. They do run in AKC and HRC hunt tests though and they're some running in master HT's. just must not have been in any that you saw.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

DOG ON POINT said:


> here's one of the responses I got from a lab friend out here about watching boykins work...
> Boykins are not eligible to run AKC Retriever Field Trials but were approved for Retriever Hunt Tests about a year ago. We mostly run trials but I did enter a few hunt tests this year. We run at Master and there were no Boykins entered at that level. I am not sure if any ran at the lower levels. You can go through the retriever hunt test entries on Entry Express and see if any were entered this last year and see if they qualified.
> 
> The main venue for Boykins are Spaniel trials and hunt tests. I would check out the entries at those events. I am not sure where they are listed.
> ...


 It's really regional for number of participants you will see at the AKC hunt tests. Boykins have been part of UKC hunt tests for years. I believe 3 qualified for the AKC Master National, and Chief was a finalist. I anticipate the numbers will continue to grow gradually as more Boykin owners train for advanced hunt test levels, but they will never surpass the #1 Lab as the breed of choice.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

DOG ON POINT said:


> The main venue for Boykins are Spaniel trials and hunt tests.


Pointer, that ain't altogether true - Boykins are not eligible for spaniel field trials (only springers and cockers of the spaniel breeds can run them, and those two breeds never against each other), and the spaniel hunt test program is sparsely fielded in the first place (but has struggled less since Boykins came into them).

As for retrieving, Boykins have been HRC mainstays for some time, there also are a growing number of AKC Master Hunters in the breed (including esylivin's Chief, who's also GHRCH) and my own Boykin never failed a NAHRA test back when that was the only retriever option in my neck of the woods for running her. Lot of naysayers just a few years ago are now










eating crow about their capabilities.

Going AKC has been a boon to the Boykin in a number of ways - including competitive venues and greater scrutiny into sounder breeding practices for what was once considered almost a disposable gundog pigeonholed in one region of the country. On the downside, there once were no "show" Boykins, now...(I'll let you fill in the rest) even if they do *show up* right pretty 










wherever you see them










MG


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

Duckquilizer said:


> Those are great looking dogs! *Did Stephen train yours or you? Either way, nice job!*
> 
> I never said they could not do the work, only that it maybe be slightly more "challenging". I certainly like the fact you are helping the breed by pushing forward and doing a fine job. I like seeing the cocky little guys come back to the line with the "bird in mouth, look at me, chest out, strut!" You can't help but smile...


I trained Chief myself and passed him in his title run at the Grand. Stephen runs Chief when I'm unable to take off work. (The AKC game is not conducive for an amateur who works full time to participate) At major events he will usually get chief a few weeks ahead of time to fine tune. Stephen has helped a lot with Chief's training and done a fantastic job of handling him. He started helping with his training after Chief got his HRCH title. He passed him at his first Grand, five of the six Master Tests and at the Master Nationals. I passed him at his first Master Test and at his second Grand making him the only Boykin to have passed the Grand by his amateur owner and handler. Stephen and I are good friends and he will continue to run Chief when I'm unavailable. Stephen has trained a lot of Boykins since first working with Chief . They have taught each other a lot.


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## 12mcrebel (Jan 14, 2011)

have a quackwacker pup named Newt, or Drake's brother.. yall better remember the Boykin named Drake!! He's got it goin on.

in honor of cracker


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## road kill (Feb 15, 2009)

The Boykin in the "Macks" advertisment is a dog named "Trigger."
A full brother to "Earl."

I have shot over several Boykins in UKC UH tests.
Trigger in particular.

They are really nice upland dogs.
EXCELLENT grouse dogs!!!

They are smart, energetic and fearless!


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

Well my wife has asked several times if this is the kind of dog I wanted and even called them cute... sooo, still not totally sold on the breed yet, but it looks like we'll be getting probably around June if I can find the right breeding... (we have summers off, so a great time for socializing)... I am set on having two dogs, so who knows, maybe this will open the door for me getting another small vizsla  oh, keep the pics coming, they are pretty awesome! Merry Christmas! who know, give it a year of trainging and we could end up with 2 Boykins...


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

As soon as I can upload some pics and figure out how to post them on here. I will post some nice ones and hopefully a hunt test video.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

DOG ON POINT said:


> Well my wife has asked several times if this is the kind of dog I wanted and even called them cute... who know, give it a year of training and we could end up with 2 Boykins...


That's generally how it works with getting a Boykin (or two) - the wife or significant other gets the training after you've gotten the message that she would like to have a gundog of her own (or two), too.

They do "cute" real well










and then they do whatever you ask of them that makes them 










much cuter 






























Convincingly cute enough to end up with a couple of Boykins, if I do say so myself.

MG


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

Here ya go. Angie already posted one pic but here are a few more.
He is one pass away from his Jr. title and he has one Sr. pass at 19 months old. Hank has been dove and duck hunting all season long, he has a ton of drive and is an excellent marking dog. I will post some hunting pics after I get them uploaded. 

Hank Huckaby


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

Hopefully the video post will work. This is him at a UKC Started hunt test when he was 8 months old.


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

couple more...

first HRC Finished pass @ 16 months.










then a shameless plug for our Candler Creek Retrievers team with my possum posing with all our Ribbons from the weekend.


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

very cool!!! wow... 2 more posts then I can actually return some pms... anybody know of any good breeding taking place in January?


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

hate to ask this.... never mind... but it was good for one more post!


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

I understand but you better give yourself at least a year to find your puppy. There aren't that many litters out there... Many breeders have long waiting lists.

Angie


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Angie B said:


> I understand but you better give yourself at least a year to find your puppy. There aren't that many litters out there... Many breeders have long waiting lists.
> 
> Angie


This is good advice.


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

thanks... good advice, I will take it into consideration... I think with this post = #10 so I can reply to a few pms and return some calls I put out there... I think once I nail down 2-3 good breeders / bloodlines, I'll play the waiting game and hopefully something works out... I love window shopping! it stops me from impulse buying... like I've said, this dog will be with us for the next 10+ yrs... if you or anybody happen to get a good lead on a littler, please feel free to let me know.


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Doing what i was born to do. Fetching up wood ducks.


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## Gauge123 (Dec 3, 2012)

FOREWARNING:
If you get one you will hear the words "Boykins are not Labs".
They are different, VERY different. If you have used Spaniels before then maybe you know already.
I have my first Boykin. He is 11 months now. They are almost too smart. 
Expect to have to wait for a puppy. Especially if you want a female.
Great personality, great family pet, great drive. Too small for geese. Mine handles Mallards and Canvas Backs with ease.
Expect some ridicule until they see him work.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Gauge123 said:


> FOREWARNING:
> If you get one you will hear the words "Boykins are not Labs".
> They are different, VERY different. If you have used Spaniels before then maybe you know already.
> I have my first Boykin. He is 11 months now. They are almost too smart.
> ...


You had me there for a good long while, Gauge. What should I ask for, an _*undo*_-over










after a couple thousand geese the last 11-12 years? Don't shortchange them in going about their work, you'll be happy you didn't.

MG


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

About 50 of these in a day


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Yep too small for this big wounded and pissed off Canada from this morning as he's pulling it up on the dog stand.


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

Nice pic Blaine


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## DOG ON POINT (Dec 19, 2012)

thanks guys, got in touch with Elroy (duke of earl) & had a lot of good advice....


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Big ol buck rabbit comes running through the swamp. No problem if you have a boykin. Weve had some good variety last couple days.


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## Gauge123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Maybe I need to have a talk with Gauge. He dragged a snow goose half way back with considerable effort. Then he sat down and looked at me with a look that said "Hey Arse hole you could come help with this one". 
I don't kill enough geese to worry about it much. I conceed that if you guys are having success on the geese then obviously they are not off the table for the Boykins.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Ain't much that _*is*_ off the table for Boykins - even when they go off the reservation as gundogs, they're still retrieving away.










Maybe you do you need to have that pep talk with your pup. They're all willing, it's up to you to help them learn to put that willingness into action.

MG


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Crackerd you keep one upping me on boykin retrieves. Im going to have to get creative tomorrow morning.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Naw, Blaine, you already have - a Boykin bringing a canecutter onto a dog stand takes the cake. Gotta love it even if I weren't an old rabbit hunter.

MG


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## Hairy Dawg (Mar 8, 2009)

BlaineT said:


> Crackerd you keep one upping me on boykin retrieves. Im going to have to get creative tomorrow morning.


Crackerd has enough pictures in the hole that you're gonna have a hard time catching him. :mrgreen:


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Alright crackerd. How about a "just chillin" in the living room after a hard days work pic??


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## Mid Thorne (Mar 13, 2012)

Geech sat quietly and fit nicely in Arkansas rice field pit blind where he retrieved 42 ducks and a Specklebelly. The guide, a hard core Lab guy, said Geech could work his blind any time. He's only 16 months old and has been pretty easy to train.


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)




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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)




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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

Best Timber dog I've ever owned and one of the easiest retriever I've trained. They are just like every other breed some easy, some hard but these dogs will still your heart.


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## honkin (May 5, 2006)

HRCH Stick pond's Raz Ma Taz X HRCH Just Ducky's Justaplaceoutwest is planned for January. Taz was one of the first three Master Hunter Boykins and Tana was handled to her HRCH by her 11 year old owner, Sarah Harris. I think it will be a nice breeding.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Honkin heard from amongst the Hawkeyes, as I live and breathe! - How you doing out there in the heartland with them little dogs that's got such big heart? About that upcoming litter - they going to be more of them "triple-threat Boykins" - flush, cap-R Retrieve and that other great Boykin trait you enlightened us about?

MG


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

crackerd said:


> Honkin heard from amongst the Hawkeyes, as I live and breathe! - How you doing out there in the heartland with them little dogs that's got such big heart? About that upcoming litter - they going to be more of them "triple-threat Boykins" - flush, cap-R Retrieve and that other great Boykin trait you enlightened us about?
> 
> MG


Do ya think one of them will be suitable for my 'Goshawk' MG?....Because that's next on my 'wanna be' list!..just before I go...


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

polmaise said:


> Do ya think one of them will be suitable for my 'Goshawk' MG?....Because that's next on my 'wanna be' list!..just before I go...:wink:


Robt., 'fraid this is one o' them "lost in translations" - Honkin being amongst the Hawkeyes which is another name for denizens of the fine state of Iowa, not a lot of hawks' eyes drawing a bead on him. Don't know if I would cotton to falconing over a li'lo Boykin, as the hawk's eyes - the goshawk's eyes - might light up with anticipation of its next meal.:wink: - Have had bald eagles give mine a 25-foot flyover with that prurient thought in mind. 

On the other hand...the Boykin's retriever outlook is finder's keepers, as with this mallard drake








​ 
that fell out of an eagle's nest shorn of its neck plumage (but got delivered "cleanly" for table fare, instead of going back to what vanquished it as bird feed).

Tell more about your falconry wannabe-ing.

MG


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

It's Just those 'Cross-roads' in life mate!
My Falconry' day's are planned and have been for some time!
I just kept it under the wing'?
.....
The Boykin', was more Your'e ! challenge!!!!..I have always been up for something 'different'!...and over here it's 'Different'!?....
I have taken a Collie on a driven day retrieving pheasants better than most!..and a Border Terrier beating' and flushing amongst the best of spaniels!
..
So I just thought I would take something, that every-one would say ?...What's That?.......
atb
R.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

what about eic in boykins. i have had two and they both had it. is it more common than in labs?


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

kip said:


> what about eic in boykins. i have had two and they both had it. is it more common than in labs?


personally i havent known any around here with EIC....much bigger problem with the hips from what ive seen.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

BlaineT said:


> personally i havent known any around here with EIC....much bigger problem with the hips from what ive seen.


well i am comparing the symptoms to eic that i have seen in labs, loved both dogs and would get another one from the right litter, when i contacted the breeder from the second one i never got a response


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

EIC is about as prevalent as it is in Labs. I know of three that are Affected, as well as a couple of carriers.


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## Hairy Dawg (Mar 8, 2009)

kip said:


> what about eic in boykins. i have had two and they both had it. is it more common than in labs?


Not sure. Many Boykin owners aren't testing for it yet, but I had Reese tested, & he was clear.


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

Eic statics are just about the same in Boykins as labs. Most are testing now.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

kimsmith said:


> Eic statics are just about the same in Boykins as labs. Most are testing now.


Statistics for EIC for Boykin Spaniels at University of Minnesota Diagnostic Lab do not support this statement that "most are testing now". Most owners/breeders based on the number of registered Boykins are NOT testing for it, despite the discovery of EIC in the Boykin breed three years ago. However, reputable breeders that participate in competition and field event venues are testing for EIC, but the puppy mill, high volume commercial kennels, and backyard or just plain "for profit" breeders far outweigh reputable breeders. But many of these breeders are also not even obtaining OFA certifications on hips either prior to producing litters much less testing for EIC. 

http://www.vdl.umn.edu/prod/groups/cvm/@pub/@cvm/@vdl/documents/asset/cvm_asset_403528.pdf


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## honkin (May 5, 2006)

I think that most people that train Boykins for tests/trials understand EIC and test for it. Unfortunately, we still see enough people breeding for other purposes that don't care to test for it, or because they aren't breeding for compeetition, don't know about it yet.

Crackrd, we are doing just fine out here. We now have a new game to play: PHEASANTS!


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

When I posted most are testing now, I meant people now know Eic affects Boykins so we are testing now


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Lookey what a client sent to me today....

Gary Huckaby and his dog Hank!!!

Gooooood Boooooy Hank!!!!



















Angie


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Gooooood Boooooy Hank!!!!


Gotta be the best Hank from the Lone Star State to appear on my screen since Hank Hill - bravo!

MG


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

Angie when are you getting your Boykin?


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

kimsmith said:


> Angie when are you getting your Boykin?


Angie and jwdavis are going to co-own and campaign one together... Should be interesting...heard it on the grapevine.


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