# Trainer that will win the National in 5 years



## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

If you had a well bred talented young dog now, and wanted to put it with a trainer with hopes of winning the National in 5-6 years, who would you choose?


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Mark Edwards


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## Brent Keever (Jun 14, 2008)

Ryan Brasseaux I can tell you he will not be out worked. It would not be lack of effort to get the dog there.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Mike Perry said:


> If you had a well bred talented young dog now, and wanted to put it with a trainer with hopes of winning the National in 5-6 years, who would you choose?


You want The Best?

http://www.dannyfarmer.com/about/farmer.php


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## kimsmith (Mar 30, 2003)

Mike, not trying to hijack your thread but could you email or pm me directions to the HT. I've looked everywhere and can't find I suppose to go.

Thanks
Kim Smith


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Rorem

Angie


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Rorem, Farmer, Eckett, but first with Hillman. Now if I only had a pup and a few $$$$$$


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## Danny (Apr 26, 2008)

Dave Rorem


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

firehouselabs said:


> Rorem, Farmer, Eckett, but first with Hillman. Now if I only had a pup and a few $$$$$$


You really think Hillman will be running all age stakes in 5 years??? If so,,, he better get a crack'n,,, Takes more then a few years to build a solid consistent All Age truck...

Angie


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

There are alot of excellent pros out there. It's truly incredible some of the accomplishments of some of the top pros.

Everyone knows the obvious Super-Heavyweight names, but I really salute the guys that sign up for the trials knowing that the Farmer's, Rorem's, Eckett's of the world are gonna be there. Those guys know what they are up against, but they cowboy up, train hard, and load up their trucks anyway. And many times they more than hold their own.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Pick your poison....you can go compete against Danny Farmer & Kenny Trott at North Texas, or you can go run against Rorem, Schrader, Edwards, & Brasseux in Shreveport.

This Texas circuit in the early spring is brutal.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

junfan68 said:


> Pick your poison....you can go compete against Danny Farmer & Kenny Trott at North Texas, or you can go run against Rorem, Schrader, Edwards, & Brasseux in Shreveport.
> 
> This Texas circuit in the early spring is brutal.


We're not talking about "spring" in Texas,,,,

Who will win the national Open in 5 years....

Do you have a prediction???

Angie


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## Danny (Apr 26, 2008)

junfan68 said:


> Pick your poison....you can go compete against Danny Farmer & Kenny Trott at North Texas, or you can go run against Rorem, Schrader, Edwards, & Brasseux in Shreveport.
> 
> This Texas circuit in the early spring is brutal.


Especially when they enter twenty dogs at a time. It sure kicks the little man to the curb!

Danny


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## rolando_cornelio (Jun 28, 2007)

Gonia.....


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Danny said:


> Especially when they enter twenty dogs at a time. It sure kicks the little man to the curb!
> 
> Danny


It's the same everywhere... The big names bring in a lot of dogs...

It doesn't matter how many dogs you're running,,, down the line,,, you'll have to beat them all.

If you're running one, two or 20....

Angie


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## JBM (May 26, 2005)

Scott Harp or Charlie Moody or both


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## Danny (Apr 26, 2008)

Angie B said:


> It's the same everywhere... The big names bring in a lot of dogs...
> 
> It doesn't matter how many dogs you're running,,, down the line,,, you'll have to beat them all.
> 
> ...


If everyone had twenty dogs, the odds would be the same not different. But I do hear what you are saying. To be the best you have to beat the best no matter how many dogs run in your trial.

Danny


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

Henninger with Pink


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

> We're not talking about "spring" in Texas,,,,
> 
> Who will win the national Open in 5 years....
> 
> ...


I really don't have a strong opinion. There are alot of trainers out there who put in the work and have the skill. It's just a matter of having the right dog that decides to get on a roll at the right time.

Just think about it. At Rose Country, Rorem had one dog in the final series and he picked up. The next weekend at Rockwall Rorem sweeps. That's the beauty of it, on any given weekend some dog can put it all together. Of course, some are more consistent than others.

Farmer
Rorem
Eckett
Schrader
Trott
Gunzer

Any of those guys can do it and I'm sure the list is a lot bigger than that.


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## Jason E. (Sep 9, 2004)

Hugh and Al Arthur at Sandhill Kennels


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

I'd go with the pro with the most dogs, though Billy Drawdown is would be my pick.


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

A lot can happen in 5 years but here's how I see it. Ramein comes out of retirement( again) and wins it with Billy( who also comes out of retirement) for the third time. Comeback story of the year I'm already contemplating selling the movie rights.


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## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

Just sell the dog to Ken Neil, he has won more nationals in the last 2 years than any of those big name pros you guys are naming. Matter of fact, Amateurs have won more national opens in the last 3 years than any of those big name pros you are naming.


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

golden boy 2 said:


> Just sell the dog to Ken Neil, he has won more nationals in the last 2 years than any of those big name pros you guys are naming. Matter of fact, Amateurs have won more national opens in the last 3 years than any of those big name pros you are naming.


but who trained those dogs?


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

AmiableLabs said:


> Mark Edwards


And if he does, I hope it is with Bullet 

Just saying....

FOM


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## dogman09 (Apr 5, 2009)

Polock


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## carolinagold (Jan 19, 2003)

Mike Lardy
Alan Pleasant


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## Doug Moore (Nov 8, 2006)

Jason E. said:


> Hugh and Al Arthur at Sandhill Kennels


Or Alan Pleasant.


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Angie B said:


> It's the same everywhere... The big names bring in a lot of dogs...
> 
> It doesn't matter how many dogs you're running,,, down the line,,, you'll have to beat them all.
> 
> ...


How would you know?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

carolinagold said:


> Mike Lardy
> Allen Pleasant





straightline said:


> Or Alan Pleasant.


if I ever had the $$$ and want to I would try to get a dog on Mr. Pleasant's truck. Just a gosh darn nice guy. And at a glance it seems the dogs he runs like him.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

The more dogs on the truck, the more they can get qualified for the big dance.

I'll play the odds, Farmer or Rorem since thier guns are loaded and both are excellent trainers. 

If I had to pick one, I'd go with Danny since he always seems to find his LSU hat for the cover photo on RFTN!

Ain't nothing wrong with the boutique trainers either, those with smaller trucks and smaller entourage.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2009)

No one mentions Bill Sargenti? He has already won one National and to the best of my knowledge has more dogs qualified for this year than anyone else.

Jerry Patopea?

Are you all forgetting these old guys? They are people, too. ;-):razz:


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> Are you all forgetting these old guys? They are people, too. ;-):razz:


I'm sure Billy would love to hear he is old!


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

idiots all....

my dog would go to Chester!


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

A quick look at the entries on entryexpress would answer that question on a lot of owners.


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## Bayou Magic (Feb 7, 2004)

FOM said:


> And if he does, I hope it is with Bullet
> 
> Just saying....
> 
> FOM


Sorry L, but it will be Piper!

fp


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## Josh Conrad (Jul 3, 2005)

Mike Perry said:


> If you had a well bred talented young dog now, and wanted to put it with a trainer with hopes of winning the National in 5-6 years, who would you choose?


 
I asked myself this question a couple years ago, and I sent my dog to Mr. Sargenti. He's a mean ol' crusty fugger and I like it.:razz:


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Jim Gonia with a Carbon or Chopper son or grandson.


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## Loren Crannell (Apr 12, 2008)

Melanie Foster said:


> No one mentions Bill Sargenti? He has already won one National and to the best of my knowledge has more dogs qualified for this year than anyone else.
> 
> Jerry Patopea?
> 
> Are you all forgetting these old guys? They are people, too. ;-):razz:



I agree. Sargenti is very strong.

I picked Patopea for my dog, and I like him alot. Hopefully that dog 5 years from now will be mine. 

Loren


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## 1NarlyBar (Jul 10, 2008)

Billy, all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Jerry?..... Sorry, But he needs to reconsider his arrangements with his clients(Prior observation). 






The Brown Boy


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

helencalif said:


> Jim Gonia with a Carbon or Chopper son or grandson.


He's got a REALLY nice Carbon son in there now who won his first derby at 13-14 months old and hit the derby list after his first 3 derbies.  
Go Cynthia!!!!!!


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## 1NarlyBar (Jul 10, 2008)

ACEBLDRS said:


> [HACKED IT}
> 
> I sent my dog to Mr. Sargenti. He's a mean ol' crusty fugger and I like it.:razz:




Yep, Yep,

Wait 'til you meet me. 

Or Have you?


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

One of the handlers will win a National in the next 5 years

1. Jack Vollstedt- perennial finalist usually comes with two entries

2. Ted Shih- has lots of top quality athletes on his truck,always a threat

3. Mark Rosenblum- I like Stormin Norman

4. Clint Mallari (homer/family)

5. George Wilson (if I can talk him out of retirement)

6. Glenda Brown- always seems to finish in the hardware


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## LAwaterfowler (Jan 22, 2009)

Dann farmer handles Stormin Norman so there you go. LOL. What about Steve Stidham of Sulphur River Kennels. I have heard nothing but great things about steve. He has been in the game a long time but definitely a contender dont ya think? I would love for Norman to win, i have a 4 mth old blk F out of him thats doing great. she will be going to Steve in the middle of may


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> How would you know?


You ain't right man.....

She is gonna be on you like stink on doo doo when she reads this.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Paul Rainbolt...but he needs to work on his people skilz 



Actually any of the trainers listed and some not list would be a good choice…in five years the trainer who is fortunate enough to get a great dog will win the National…great dogs make good trainers great…not the other way around.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> How would you know?




Now that is funny as hell...see what I am saying about his people skilz?


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> How would you know?


I read a lot.. Smart a$$

Angie


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> You ain't right man.....
> 
> She is gonna be on you like stink on doo doo when she reads this.



Maybe the AARP will start extreme senior fighting


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

LAwaterfowler said:


> Dann farmer handles Stormin Norman so there you go. LOL. What about Steve Stidham of Sulphur River Kennels. I have heard nothing but great things about steve. He has been in the game a long time but definitely a contender dont ya think? I would love for Norman to win, i have a 4 mth old blk F out of him thats doing great. she will be going to Steve in the middle of may


Steve does not run Field Trials any more but if he did there is do doubt that he would be competitive.

Regards


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## Joe Kuczynski (Jul 10, 2008)

Mark Mosher


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## stevelow (May 13, 2004)

If you are thinking five years ahead, you have to go for a young guy. My pick would be Karl Gunzer. He has a few dogs in the National for several years now, and they usually hang in there to the later series.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

There are several pros with consistently good dogs that can win a nat'l in the next 5 yrs. I would count Dave Smith among them. Dave was the primary trainer at Handjem (Lardy) for 14 yrs and had a number of nat'l finalists to his credit while at Handjem. Since establishing Shooting Star Kennels approx 2 yrs ago he has several open wins and has qualified 14 young dogs (QAA) in the last year (anyone else done that?). In the same time Dave has trained several other young dogs that are now winning and placing with other pros. In addition, Dave has taken several dogs that have struggled with other pros and is having success with those dogs too (titling one & another that likely will under his training). Dave is building a nice truck of talented dogs and he'll be there over the next 5 yrs.


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## Kyle B (May 5, 2005)

Jimmy Carter.


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## Tommy Wallace (Jun 13, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> if I ever had the $$$ and want to I would try to get a dog on Mr. Pleasant's truck. Just a gosh darn nice guy. And at a glance it seems the dogs he runs like him.



He sure is. I seen Alan last week & he won the trial @ Cooper Black in SC. I have know him & Gwen since the early 90's & he is just a good ole boy that knows how to get the most out of your dog.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I like to be able to see and handle my dog, but if I were going for the National I think Rorem, who had 4 that finished, is the trainer to watch.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Nikki Malarky said:


> He sure is. I seen Alan last week & he won the trial @ Cooper Black in SC. I have know him & Gwen since the early 90's & he is just a good ole boy that knows how to get the most out of your dog.


I never realized back could be a three-syllable word until I saw him send a dog on a blind retrieve


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## randy anderson (Sep 23, 2003)

My pick Obama. We won't have anymore trials in this country in five years because he and all his liberal buddies will take all the guns and you won't be able to shoot birds.


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

randy anderson said:


> My pick Obama. We won't have anymore trials in this country in five years because he and all his liberal buddies will take all the guns and you won't be able to shoot birds.


Can this be moved to Potus Place?


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## duke7581 (Jan 17, 2008)

i would first send to Dan Denicus to have the basics. Or another proven young dog trainer then decide which pro to send it to from there. Probably Ryan Brasseaux or maybe Charlie Moody couple of the younger guys in the game. My .02cents


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Losthwy said:


> Can this be moved to Potus Place?


Prolly not....but it can sure be ignored....

kg


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

I'm hoping that Steve Blythe wins in in the next 5 years, with my dog...


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## dogcommand (May 22, 2003)

I'd like to see Billy Sargenti win another one....old??, crusty perhaps, mean..naw, he's got a heart of gold.

I also think that Karl Gunzer will get there. He's a hard worker and very talented handler...its a matter of time.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Mike Perry said:


> If you had a well bred talented young dog now, and wanted to put it with a trainer with hopes of winning the National in 5-6 years, who would you choose?


depends on the age and qualities of the dog


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## Jim Pickering (Sep 17, 2004)

Mike Perry said:


> If you had a well bred talented young dog now, and wanted to put it with a trainer with hopes of winning the National in 5-6 years, who would you choose?


Replies seem to focus on which pros currently have a dog or dogs that could win the National. As I read the question it is asking opinions as to which pro would be the best bet to take a new talented young dog and train it to win a National in five years. To the best of my knowledge few if any of the front line pros actually do basics although some have assistant trainers in house to do the grunt work. Getting a very talented yound dog with excellent basics on a top pro's truck may be easier said than done for a new guy.

However, that I thought this was a good question, so rather than name the favorite pro, I looked at recent history to see which pros have the best track record. I pulled out the January issues 2001-2009 of the Retriever News / Retriever Field Trial News and looked at which pros had finalist dogs. Below is a table of this information. It appears that Danny Farmer has had the most finalists followed closely by Mike Lardy and Bill Eckett. Mike Lardy leads in wins with two during this time frame. This info is not entirely accurate in that some owner/amateur handled finalists were extensively pro trained and the pro does not get credit here. Given that I do not know the amateur/pro relationship in all cases I did not attempt to factor this into the data. Also the list is in alphabetical order and in two or three cases separate members of a training team have had finalist dogs which are listed separately.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

EdA said:


> depends on the age and qualities of the dog


Few people realize this Dr. Ed. They just start throwing out names. For some of these guys named, you better have a dog with a lot of bottom. Others, not so much.

One of those trainers mentioned still uses a lip clip on a dog from time to time. (saw it with my own eyes so it's not hearsay).


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Jason E. said:


> Hugh and Al Arthur at Sandhill Kennels


Ok, Jason. If we're going to play "suck up to your pro", I'll say Attar or Steenbergen. 

Ray Voight would like to be on this list, although he's feeling kind of blue over last weekend. Pat Burns.... how about him? Or the big buy himself, Mike Lardy?

When I read this thread, I took it to mean the "up and comers"..... and it's gotten to be another favorite pro thread.... the only thing that's made it interesting is the thought of Angie beating the tar out of somebody....


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

perhaps a better question what pros do their own basics and what was the most recent National Champion who was handled by the pro who started it and did basic training?

I do not presume to have the answers but I know young dogs move around ALOT

I do know that 1995 NFC Vinwood Takes A Lickin was raised and trained (including basics) by one Mr. D. Farmer


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## scott spalding (Aug 27, 2005)

kind of hard imagine Farmer won't be there over the next few years he is very consistent. I had the pleasure of meeting him at the Red River trial last fall I enjoyed speaking with him.


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## Grasshopper (Sep 26, 2007)

That's easy - me!! 

Thinkin' big regards,
Kathryn


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

JusticeDog said:


> Few people realize this Dr. Ed. They just start throwing out names. For some of these guys named, you better have a dog with a lot of bottom. Others, not so much.
> 
> One of those trainers mentioned still uses a lip clip on a dog from time to time. (saw it with my own eyes so it's not hearsay).


What is a lip clip? Sorry for the derail here, but I have never heard of it and would like to know.


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> I never realized back could be a three-syllable word until I saw him send a dog on a blind retrieve


Back is a three syllable word. Why would you think otherwise???
Fluent in Southern regards,
Becky


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

> the only thing that's made it interesting is the thought of Angie beating the tar out of somebody....


That "somebody" would be crying like a baby and complaining to everyone how UNFAIR the beating was...

His mother should have made him use a pacifier and never let him suck his thumb....

Angie


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

EdA said:


> perhaps a better question what pros do their own basics and what was the most recent National Champion who was handled by the pro who started it and did basic training?


Now Ed, you know it ain't PC anymore to have one guy do it all! You have to have a young dog specialist, then send the dog to an AA specialist.

Who's the babe in your avatar, one of your new assistants? Inquiring minds gots to know.

And for the record, I didn't name the guy that trains for me, though I think he is more than capable even if he is old fashioned and wants to do the basics too. I went with that renegade from Looisana that now resides in your republic. 
;-)


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

stevelow said:


> If you are thinking five years ahead, you have to go for a young guy.


There's a young dog on Mr. Danny's truck called Pearl. She will be something else in several years.

Then again, there's several very young dogs on Clay's (Does basics for Mr. Danny.) truck that will be very interesting to see grow up in the next several years.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Angie B said:


> That "somebody" would be crying like a baby and complaining to everyone how UNFAIR the beating was...
> 
> His mother should have made him use a pacifier and never let him suck his thumb....
> 
> Angie


My $$ are on angie...... 

Just sayin' regards-


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Had an opportunity to meet a fellow up in Canada last year, Simon Zimmerman. Since, "Si" or "Zim", has relocated to Michigan I believe.

Anyhow, watch out for this guy. I really enjoyed his contrasting style of training methods and his dogs looked really sharp. Doesn't train for derby so won't see many of his pups. Well bred though. 

I think this guy has a legit chance to hit the ground running and contend in 5 years or so.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

2tall said:


> What is a lip clip?


A device more commonly used in the old days on dogs that would not respond to collar pressure. The premise is that the lip area is more sensitive so you can turn down the collar around the neck (or remove one collar if you are using 2), and the clip that is attached to the lip will deliver a lower level of stimulation. In the old days carol, there were stories of clips being attached to places on a dog other than the lip.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

JusticeDog said:


> My $$ are on angie......
> 
> Just sayin' regards-


;-) He's pretty witty, but such a "cry baby"...

It's always about "him" and how hard things are,, yadada....

Whatever............

Angie


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Angie B said:


> ;-) He's pretty witty, but such a "cry baby"...
> 
> It's always about "him" and how hard things are,, yadada....
> 
> ...


Hold on, let me grab my popcorn.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

JusticeDog said:


> My $$ are on angie......
> 
> Just sayin' regards-


I would take Rainbolt everyday and twice on Sunday...the dude has been in more bar brawls than a freaking biker.

And he doesnt whine...he just doesnt like being used and vocal about it.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> There's a young dog on Mr. Danny's truck called Pearl. She will be something else in several years.


If it's the dog I'm thinking of, I know her sister, she's in the picture to the left. She is something else as well.

She's had the same trainer since 24 weeks, and she'll be staying with him one way or another.


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Angie B said:


> That "somebody" would be crying like a baby and complaining to everyone how UNFAIR the beating was...
> 
> His mother should have made him use a pacifier and never let him suck his thumb....
> 
> Angie


Comments like this are just one of the reasons why you don't get any respect from field trialers(Pros's and Amateurs) in this region. You are an embarrassment to your profession.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Buzz said:


> If it's the dog I'm thinking of, I know her sister, she's in the picture to the left. She is something else as well.
> 
> She's had the same trainer since 24 weeks, and she'll be staying with him one way or another.


Dog: Rocky Creek's Full Tilt Boogie 
Call Name: Pearl 
DOB: 05/25/2006 
Sire: FC AFC Esprit's Power Play 
Dam: FC AFC Trumarc's Lean Cuisine 
Color: Black 
Sex: F
Breed: Labrador Retriever
Breeder: Judith Aycock/John Russell Jr. 
Owner: John Caire


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> Dog: Rocky Creek's Full Tilt Boogie
> Call Name: Pearl
> DOB: 05/25/2006
> Sire: FC AFC Esprit's Power Play
> ...


Yup, that's the one! The girl in my avatar is Moneybird's Black Magic Marker, Raven.


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## Mark Rosenblum (Apr 19, 2008)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Had an opportunity to meet a fellow up in Canada last year, Simon Zimmerman. Since, "Si" or "Zim", has relocated to Michigan I believe.
> 
> Anyhow, watch out for this guy. I really enjoyed his contrasting style of training methods and his dogs looked really sharp. Doesn't train for derby so won't see many of his pups. Well bred though.
> 
> I think this guy has a legit chance to hit the ground running and contend in 5 years or so.


Huh? Lot's of the Michigan guys trial in Canada and the Canadian guys train in Michigan. What is his nationality? 

BTW ,what does a "contrasting style of training" mean?


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## JDogger (Feb 2, 2003)

Mike Perry said:


> If you had a well bred talented young dog now, and wanted to put it with a trainer with hopes of winning the National in 5-6 years, who would you choose?


Well, mine of course...


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

JusticeDog said:


> When I read this thread, I took it to mean the "up and comers".....


Same here.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Mark Rosenblum said:


> Huh? Lot's of the Michigan guys trial in Canada and the Canadian guys train in Michigan. What is his nationality?
> 
> BTW ,what does a "contrasting style of training" mean?


I can't say for certain, but I'm guessing Hutterite. When I met him he had a horse and carriage for sale in the front of his property. It was probably in the family as I see it.

As for his contrasting style, at times he will go "Back to Basics" but then use "Next Generation" applications to get his results.

It would be like using Amish techniques while quickly throwing a double momentum check down correction on a dog.

All I can say is his truck looked very good. So much so I'm pretty sure I will be sending him my next puppy to be in that National lineup 5 years from now. Which reminds me, I need to start a "name game" for my expecting NFC.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> Comments like this are just one of the reasons why you don't get any respect from field trialers(Pros's and Amateurs) in this region. You are an embarrassment to your profession.


What???

That's all you got?

Sounds like to me you just been pulled by your hair and fed Cheetos up your nose.

Let's go. Let's get it all out now so you two can be friends when it's all done.

Funny thing is, I know both of you and I think you two have more in common than you realize.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Funny thing is, I know both of you and I think you two have more in common than you realize.



Now you have to tell us what that would be...I have not a clue what they would have in common....they own retrievers?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Now you have to tell us what that would be...I have not a clue what they would have in common....they own retrievers?


I can't tell you. You are not in the circle of trust.

Just trust that they both have flower tatoos..........

We just need to find where their peace signs are.

Smokin' the peace pipe regards,


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I can't tell you. You are not in the circle of trust.
> 
> Just trust that they both have flower tatoos..........
> 
> ...


I was going to say size 11 boots and a hairy back. “Circle of trust?” I know of the three of you there is ONE I would trust or want to be in their “circle of trust” 
I have seen how the other two operate in the real world.


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I can't tell you. You are not in the circle of trust.
> 
> Just trust that they both have flower tatoos..........
> 
> ...


*I will leave the finding of "peace" signs up to you. All I know is they are both tall and skinny, would sound like you were rattling deer antlers together........unless there was jello involved.

Bringing Bubba, /Paul to the thread regards,

Aaron*


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Now you have to tell us what that would be...I have not a clue what they would have in common....they own retrievers?


My bets on jello babe in the national jello finals.....

/Paul


----------



## Josiah Greene (Jun 7, 2008)

how about Mike Perry....for the win.

??


----------



## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

Josiah, please delete that.
No chance I will even be there unless I am the only human left on earth.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> I have seen how the other two operate in the real world.


To my knowledge I have never met you.

But go ahead and believe what you need to.

And if you consider this website, or any forum for that matter, the real world......................you've been smokin' that crazy hooch.

I'm sorry I couldn't let you in the circle of trust. I didn't know it would flare you up like that double bearded turkey I shot last weekend.

Puff, Puff, Pass regards,


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> . So much so I'm pretty sure I will be sending him my next puppy to be in that National lineup 5 years from now. .


WOW.......I'm sure glad to know that it is that easy....


----------



## tshuntin (Mar 22, 2003)

So Ken, does that mean you are getting Gauge a new puppy?


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

EdA said:


> WOW.......I'm sure glad to know that it is that easy....


Well, from what I've seen from Zim, I have full trust he will do it.

He is really good.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

tshuntin said:


> So Ken, does that mean you are getting Gauge a new puppy?


I don't know yet.

Gage is pretty happy with his National Frisbee Champion (NFC).


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Well, from what I've seen from Zim, I have full trust he will do it.


so we should expect to see you as the owner of a dog qualified for the 2014 National Retriever Championship Stake, eh?

I sure hope I'll be there too but the road doesn't look quite so easy for me...


----------



## DJSchuur (Dec 9, 2006)

about three years ago i met a big time south dakota dog breeder at sioux valley retriever club ft. Mike #$%&*! he said his pro was a up and comer and someone to watch.his name was Chylo something anyone heard of him.


----------



## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

DJSchuur said:


> about three years ago i met a big time south dakota dog breeder at sioux valley retriever club ft. Mike #$%&*! he said his pro was a up and comer and someone to watch.his name was Chylo something anyone heard of him.


Chylo Schiffern broke out 3 of my dogs and worked 2 others for me. He has great dog savvy as well as people skills. Unfortunately he got married and quit training dogs. What a shame, my dogs and I sure miss him.


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> To my knowledge I have never met you.
> 
> But go ahead and believe what you need to.
> 
> ...


Nope...never met...dont need to.

Don't really need your permission to believe what I believe but thanks all the same.


Full of yourself regards


----------



## Vicki Worthington (Jul 9, 2004)

In this slug-fest I'll bet on the Marine over the Baseball Player any day of the week!


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> I would take Rainbolt everyday and twice on Sunday...the dude has been in more bar brawls than a freaking biker.
> 
> And he doesnt whine...he just doesnt like being used and vocal about it.


Ok, who's taller Patrick? I heard Angie has been in a ton of bar fights, and has never even broken a nail......


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

JusticeDog said:


> Ok, who's taller Patrick? I heard Angie has been in a ton of bar fights, and has never even broken a nail......




I don't have a clue...but on my best day I wouldn't want to mess with Rainbolt...just looking at the guy you know he is the dirtiest fighter in the world.


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Vicki Worthington said:


> In this slug-fest I'll bet on the Marine over the Baseball Player any day of the week!


I'm a lover...not a fighter Vicki...you should know that 

What happens in Copan stays in Copan


----------



## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> I don't have a clue...but on my best day I wouldn't want to mess with Rainbolt...just looking at the guy you know he is the dirtiest fighter in the world.


Amen. I fear scrawny hippie lookin dudes with long hair that play in bands. They will cut you before they take an ass whoopin.

SM


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

EdA said:


> so we should expect to see you as the owner of a dog qualified for the 2014 National Retriever Championship Stake, eh?
> 
> I sure hope I'll be there too but the road doesn't look quite so easy for me...


I tell you what.

I'll see if Si will take a pup from a breeding of your choice and we'll carpool to the 2014 National. I'm going and you can go if you want.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Nope...never met...dont need to.


exactly



> Don't really need your permission to believe what I believe but thanks all the same.


Oh you do, you just don't know it yet.




> Full of yourself regards


Maybe, but me loves me.


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Oh you do, you just don't know it yet.



whatever chief


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> whatever chief


That's Chief Bootknocker to you............


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Vicki Worthington said:


> In this slug-fest I'll bet on the Marine over the Baseball Player any day of the week!




Baseball players don't play fair remember.;-)


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> That's Chief Bootknocker to you............


ok chief...


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure Angie would stomp a mud hole in anyone north of the Texas border.


----------



## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

and the feud between Texans and Oklahomans continues....have them meet at an Academy sporting goods store and settle it with water blasters at ten paces


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> I don't have a clue...but on my best day I wouldn't want to mess with Rainbolt...just looking at the guy you know he is the dirtiest fighter in the world.


Hahahaha... That is frick'n hilarious.....

He looks like a gay cousin of mine..... 

I'm sure he'd come out shoot'n if your back was against the wall... Blahahaha... Real tough guy... Ahhh huh...

I didn't start this Paul did and Susan was wait'n for some ole RTF rumble!!

Gotta love it....

And Paul,,, I don't respect you either... So there..... and who the hell cares....

Angie


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Angie B said:


> and who the hell cares....
> 
> Angie


I do.

Because after all, this is the internet and it should be taken seriously.


----------



## LAwaterfowler (Jan 22, 2009)

looks like this thread has turned into a pissing contest


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I do.
> 
> Because after all, this is the internet and it should be taken seriously.


Totally!!! But if only Paul says so... 

He's the man....

Sorry, but I can't stop laughing... 

Vintage RTF....

Angie


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

LAwaterfowler said:


> looks like this thread has turned into a pissing contest


No it was turned into a "insider" RTF joke once Paul posted...

Sorry,,, many of us here got a huge, huge grin!!!

Angie


----------



## Mark Rosenblum (Apr 19, 2008)

"It would be like using Amish techniques while quickly throwing a double momentum check down correction on a dog."- Ken Guthrie-

Be careful, K-Gut. It doesn't matter if this guy is Amish, Irish, Flemish, Danish*, Spanish or gives his commands in Yiddish... 2014 is right around the corner and your guy Cy had better perform.

*-also a food reference.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Mark Rosenblum said:


> "It would be like using Amish techniques while quickly throwing a double momentum check down correction on a dog."- Ken Guthrie-
> 
> Be careful, K-Gut. It doesn't matter if this guy is Amish, Irish, Flemish, Danish*, Spanish or gives his commands in Yiddish... 2014 is right around the corner and your guy Cy had better perform.
> 
> *-also a food reference.


Say what you want, but anything is possible on the internet not to mention easier.

Rest assured, my guy Si won't go from Si Zimmerman to Sayonara.

He'll be here to stay, and that's a promise.


----------



## Ragin Storm Retrievers (Jan 9, 2006)

O.K., if I had to put a bet down on who would win a National in the next 5 years, my money would be on Alan Pleasant. NOT because he trains one of my dogs, but because he is one of the hardest working pros out there and he gets a ton out of his dogs. He has trained these handlers and their dogs.

Jane Sutter and NAFC Pepper
Ken Neil and 2007 NAFC Nellie
Ken Neil and 2007 NFC Windy
Anne Marshall and 2005 CNFC Dash

And a couple of National Finalist with him at the wheel. 

I think it's just a matter of time. He's had a great spring getting at least 2 of the Open placements in ALL of the trials that he's ran this year.


----------



## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Your just cant hide your trailer trash personality can you Angie , but how could you, you are just being yourself. I personally be very concerned if I had a dog with with a "pro" who spewed so much BS on the Internet. Your poor judgement must carry over in your dog training program.(so Ive heard).


----------



## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Tulsa Slim said:


> Your just cant hide your trailer trash personality can you Angie , but how could you, you are just being yourself. I personally be very concerned if I had a dog with with a "pro" who spewed so much BS on the Internet. Your poor judgement must carry over in your dog training program.(so Ive heard).


dude you need to chill. Angie has taken the high road here and mellowed, you have taken the low road in an attemppt to escalate the issue. typically when someone lashes out like you have its because you are trying to make up for your own "shortcomings". 

what happened? did some chick dis you in high school because you were to short to date her?


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Oh no, this is getting out of control.

I'm outta here.

Hey Patricia, keep my indians under control. 

Chief Bootknocka regards,


----------



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

In order to post something and lock a thread, I need a minimum of 10 characters.

Here they are.

Cool it please.

Chris

Edit: Good Friday AM...Happy Easter Weekend folks.

Angie, don't you have some client dogs to train? 

Paul, don't you have some more productive stuff to focus on?

Gut, c'mon man....

Patrick, please keep your hockey stick out of the ant hill

Happy Easter...

Thread unlocked.


----------



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

back in play


----------



## brlcon1 (Apr 24, 2006)

Alan Pleasant , with Erics help on young dogs and Alans experience with the big dogs and his past performances ,with both dogs and clients ,I expect him to do it again !


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Gut, c'mon man....


:sad:


Did I commit a foul? 

Or did I blow that hoot owl call and get all the gobblers off their roost?

Either way, I backed out with my last post.

I just want everyone to realize what an asset Zim can be to the retriever world.


----------



## backwater retrievers (Aug 5, 2005)

Steve Yozamp hell of a handler , went to his first National this year .


----------



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> :sad:
> 
> 
> Did I commit a foul?
> ...


Don't really remember who did what.

Probably more of a shock gobble. Sometimes all it takes is a car door slam or a thunder boom.

Roger's Sporting Goods delivered yesterday. Edge 55 lb 45 inch shaft bow mount with quick disconnect (MinnKota). New front depthfinder with transducer bracket for motor bottom....three new seats.

mmmmmmmm.....craaaaaaaaaaaapieeeeeeee.......

Chris


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> New front depthfinder with transducer bracket for motor bottom....


Alright........

I need major help in this area. Trying to find a way to have a depth finder up front without leaving a bracket on the bow during duck season.

Got any ideas or pics?


----------



## Grant Wilson (Feb 27, 2008)

rope, duct tape, or velcro?

Love me some Roger's Sporting Goods!


----------



## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Angie has a gay cousin?

Is it Adam Lambert?

SM


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Angie has a gay cousin?
> 
> Is it Adam Lambert?
> 
> SM


Why? You interested?


----------



## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Why? You interested?


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## BirdHntr (Apr 30, 2005)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Alright........
> 
> I need major help in this area. Trying to find a way to have a depth finder up front without leaving a bracket on the bow during duck season.
> 
> Got any ideas or pics?


Ken, call a FBO {fixed base operator} at your local airport and see if they would install a couple of RIVNUTs in you deck to mount the bracket to. A RIVNUT is installed like a pop-rivet but has internal threads which you can attach the bracket to and remove it during hunting season.

Carl


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Sci or Sy or Sci Fi may be the man but I'm putting my money on the one and only Qui Chang Trainer


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

EdA said:


> Sci or Sy or Sci Fi may be the man but I'm putting my money on the one and only *Qui Chang Trainer*


Name please.


----------



## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

EdA said:


> Sci or Sy or Sci Fi may be the man but I'm putting my money on the one and only Qui Chang Trainer


But who is this most honorable Qui Chang Trainer?

Inquiring minds want to know...


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Buzz said:


> But who is this most honorable Qui Chang Trainer?
> .


He chooses to remain anonymous for now, he is currently somewhere in the Himalayas meditating and, by his own admission, surrounded by petal clad nymphs.


----------



## Doug Moore (Nov 8, 2006)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Alright........
> 
> I need major help in this area. Trying to find a way to have a depth finder up front without leaving a bracket on the bow during duck season.
> 
> Got any ideas or pics?


Ken - You can get a rivnut kit like you mount the Avery blind brackets to your boat with from Macks. I've got some extras PM me your address and I will send you one. Now back to the name calling


----------



## Lisa Van Loo (Jan 7, 2003)

Mike Perry said:


> If you had a well bred talented young dog now, and wanted to put it with a trainer with hopes of winning the National in 5-6 years, who would you choose?


I would choose the trainer who knows that where he or she wants to be in five years.

Lisa


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Paul, don't you have some more productive stuff to focus on?



No. I thought that was firmly established.

Jello lovers everywhere unite.....

/Paul


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

> firmly established.
> 
> Jello lovers


aren't these things incongruous........


----------



## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> No. I thought that was firmly established.
> 
> Jello lovers everywhere unite.....
> 
> /Paul



I meant the other one writing nasty stuff to Angie. Hateful folks gotta check it at that other site. No hatin' here!


----------



## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Lisa Van Loo said:


> I would choose the trainer who knows that where he or she wants to be in five years.
> 
> Lisa



That's got to be the smartest thing I've seen posted on this entire thread.


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Why? You interested?


I just got back,,, heard it got nasty... Paul for heaven's sakes... _really_...

Ken,,, that's hysterical. Like I said,,,, vintage RTF... 

Evidently some of us oldsters on RTF lost their sense of humor and are way, way to stuck on themselves... 

Sorry Chris,,, I'm not training dogs in the evening. I eat dinner and check on RTF to see what "goofball" needs a nudge.... 

Is Ken getting a new Cy???? Inquiring minds....

Your "jello" babe,

Angie


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Angie B said:


> I
> Is Ken getting a new Cy???? Inquiring minds....


FC AFC Twenty Game Winner

"Cy"


----------



## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Ken Guthrie said:


> FC AFC Twenty Game Winner
> 
> "Cy"


FC/AFC Thirty Game Winner, then for sure he would be "Cy"


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I meant the other one writing nasty stuff to Angie. Hateful folks gotta check it at that other site. No hatin' here!


Ah. well, us Paul's get like that sometimes. We don't mean it personal, well ok, sometimes it personal. Sadly the other site failed because nobody would post on it. That means we're back to seeing more of that hateful stuff here and interestingly a lot more locked threads lately. I'll do my best to keep my ass out of trouble, but hey, you've seen the picks, he's a handful at times....

/Paul


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Sadly the other site failed because nobody would post on it. That means we're back to seeing more of that hateful stuff here and interestingly a lot more locked threads lately. I'll do my best to keep my ass out of trouble, but hey, you've seen the picks, he's a handful at times....
> 
> /Paul


That is why they should ban them from here...been preaching that to Chris but Mr. Atkinson always takes the high road and is very inclusive. I guess if Chris says we have to deal with undesirables we will.

Sometimes the truth sounds hateful regards


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> FC AFC Twenty Game Winner
> 
> "Cy"


Cy and sit... Kinda close when you're on the line don't cha think???

Don't want old "Cy" double clutching on the "sit" command...

Though I do love the registered name....

FC-AFC really??? Are you sure??? 

Angie


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> That is why they should ban them from here...been preaching that to Chris but Mr. Atkinson always takes the high road and is very inclusive. I guess if Chris says we have to deal with undesirables we will.
> 
> Sometimes the truth sounds hateful regards


Well Chris has taken the ecollar training the Mike Lardy way to heart. He's always looking for the best in people, uses just enough correction and willing to give them a chance if they show effort. Guess I can't complain cuz if he went straight to continuous high 5's I'd of been done a long time ago....

/Paul


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Well Chris has taken the ecollar training the Mike Lardy way to heart. He's always looking for the best in people, uses just enough correction and willing to give them a chance if they show effort. Guess I can't complain cuz if he went straight to continuous high 5's I'd of been done a long time ago....
> 
> /Paul




Sometimes you just have to cull them from the herd...gotta give it to brother Chris though...he is a good man.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Patricia and Paula,

Don't hate the player, hate the game.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Cy and sit... Kinda close when you're on the line don't cha think???
> 
> Don't want old "Cy" double clutching on the "sit" command...
> 
> ...


Ok, no "Cy".....

How about FC AFC Beaux Know's Bird's?

I'll spell it "Beaux" so he doesn't get that confused with "Bo" and "No".

And yes, FC AFC. Remember, everything is easy on the internet. Plus I got "Zim" training him.


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Patricia and Paula,
> 
> Don't hate the player, hate the game.



I think you played catcher too long....

/Paul


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2009)

Ken Guthrie said:


> How about FC AFC Beaux Know's Bird's?


It depends on how you feel about proper punctuation.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> I think you played catcher too long....
> 
> /Paula


Don't think, it get's in the way of your conscience.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> It depends on how you feel about proper punctuation.


Yeah, help me out there. No English major here.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2009)

Ken Guthrie said:


> it *get's* in the way


Hmm...where have I seen something like this before? ;-):razz:


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

5, 4, 3,.....


----------



## tshuntin (Mar 22, 2003)

2, 1,.....


----------



## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

There is a new signature line in here somewhere.

SM


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2009)

I saved the new post alerts to my email address for when this thread disappears...


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> There is a new signature line in here somewhere.
> 
> SM


Not any more...bye bye


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> ...bye bye


Don't leave. I love you.


----------



## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

Well, this started off as a really interesting thread. Too bad we couldn't keep it that way.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Rick_C said:


> Well, this started off as a really interesting thread. Too bad we couldn't keep it that way.


Yeah it kind of went a different direction.

But I pretty much thought it was a cheerleading session for individual owners trainers.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2009)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Yeah it kind of went a different direction.
> 
> But I pretty much thought it was a cheerleading session for individual owners trainers.


And why wouldn't it be?? You're picking who you think is the best, probably admire and are rooting for??


----------



## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Got my new tag line from this thread


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Kristie Wilder said:


> And why wouldn't it be?? You're picking who you think is the best, probably admire and are rooting for??


Oh, in that case.....

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Aycock..............


----------



## Chris Miller (Dec 16, 2005)

I now have Copenhagen all over my screen and keyboard


----------



## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Maybe he will start his own web site and all his friends will visit him there!!!

Oh, wait. :shock: Already tried that. ;-)

JS


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Ok, no "Cy".....
> 
> How about FC AFC Beaux Know's Bird's?
> 
> ...


I love it!!! You gonna tell "Zim" or should I????

Angie


----------



## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

JS said:


> Maybe he will start his own web site and all his friends will visit him there!!!
> 
> Oh, wait. :shock: Already tried that. ;-)
> 
> JS


Yeah...now the TWO of them are back here on RTF


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Yeah...now the TWO of them are back here on RTF


No worries, you can't hear us........

You have us on ignore..............


----------



## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Wow, really Patrick? Paul?
I love when folks make big assumptions and run with them when they don't have a freaking clue about the reality of a subject. 

First of all I personally know of 3 other forums that have been started by folks from here, a couple of very popular people from here started or are mods for those sites but I don't see anyone hammering them for it. I never made a public stink about starting it so that fight doesn't fly either. Why Patrick and Paul have such a bone in their craw about us starting another I will never know but whatever. We had our reasons, I've stated mine but people keep saying things that aren't at all true about it. For me it was just one of those things where this site was just changing and going in a direction I wasn't crazy about so I wanted an alternative. Not out of anger, not out of spite. Nothing like that, I just saw a need that RTF wasn't filling at the time. I have a friend that recently changed churches. The one that he had been going to was one he had been a part of since he was a kid. It had started getting very big and he liked the closeness that only a small church can provide. He still has great friends, loves the pastor, etc of the first church but just wasn't being fulfilled. I would say that is a pretty accurate analogy of what RTF had become for me at the time. I will say that things seem much better to me now, more like the "good ol' days" Anyone that thinks we started that site to bitch about this one is just dead wrong.
I can't speak for Gut's reasons so you will just have to ask him. 


As far as why it closed down. It had nothing to do with "failure" in fact the memebership had grown more the last month we were active than it had ever before. There were multiple reasons but mainly it had just become a more effort than we needed in our lives at the time and wasn't a big enough deal for us to warrant paying anyone for extra help.

I know the truth kind of takes the fun out of it for some of you so, sorry...deal with it. 

Paul, dude, seriously, you need to let it go. You were trolling from your first post in that site and you know it. You continued to post things that you were asked not to. Your post continually were aimed at Gut(much like many of your posts here) and he got tired of asking you to stop so yes, you got banned deal with it. BTW, I'm pretty sure that was your ultimate goal all along and I see no reason to think otherwise.

Patrick, I have no idea what your problem is but you've got it bad. For someone who tries to talk about taking the high road as much as you do I sure don't think I could find you there. You've gotten as bad as Paul about taking little jabs. You've "been preaching to Chris to ban us" Really, one person got nasty in this thread before that post of yours and it wasn't me or Gut, yet you felt the need to jump in. In fact this is my first post in this thread yet you have taken several shots at me in it(that just screams integrity to me). I just happened to look at your posts while looking for that one and it hit me that more than 3/4 of your recent posts have been directed in at us. Really, you need to let it go too. If it's that hard maybe you and Paul should get together I bet you could find someone to give a group discount on professional help.


----------



## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

achiro said:


> Wow, really Patrick? Paul?
> I love when folks make big assumptions and run with them when they don't have a freaking clue about the reality of a subject.
> 
> First of all I personally know of 3 other forums that have been started by folks from here, a couple of very popular people from here started or are mods for those sites but I don't see anyone hammering them for it. I never made a public stink about starting it so that fight doesn't fly either. Why Patrick and Paul have such a bone in their craw about us starting another I will never know but whatever. We had our reasons, I've stated mine but people keep saying things that aren't at all true about it. For me it was just one of those things where this site was just changing and going in a direction I wasn't crazy about so I wanted an alternative. Not out of anger, not out of spite. Nothing like that, I just saw a need that RTF wasn't filling at the time. I have a friend that recently changed churches. The one that he had been going to was one he had been a part of since he was a kid. It had started getting very big and he liked the closeness that only a small church can provide. He still has great friends, loves the pastor, etc of the first church but just wasn't being fulfilled. I would say that is a pretty accurate analogy of what RTF had become for me at the time. I will say that things seem much better to me now, more like the "good ol' days" Anyone that thinks we started that site to bitch about this one is just dead wrong.
> ...


 Russ, first off you have posted a drivel in the middle of a thread that has nothing to do with this the topic. 

Second, I didn’t say a word about your failed site. 

Third, Gutman asked me to come to his site numerous times because he need people who would post. 

Fourth nobody is going to believe you started your site because RTF got too big for you, we all know why it got started. 

Fifth like I do here, I posted on the topics that were present and Ken got in the middle of those discussion just like here. You know why I was banned, in fact just two nights ago I hashed it again with Ken. I got banned for disagreeing with his treatment of a member that I believed went way over the personal line. I also took that disagreement to PM’s and nobody saw that back and forth. The fact is in that incident that an entire thread was started over his behavior, and publicly Ken got roasted. He did apologize. I was the one that got banned, nobody else. 
Oh and for the record, Ken made you look like a little pansy whiny bitch almost every day on the board and like a whipped puppy you came back for more. You even came back to RTF chat and whined about it. I defended your sorry donkey more than once. I find it funny that your behavior of returning to your abuser continues here. I wonder who really needs counseling? “Love doesn’t hurt…”

Sixth, this site immediately improved once folks left, the attacks toned down and we saw a lot less moderation of improper behavior and locked threads. Now that your back, we’re seeing that all over again. Any chance we can get you to start your own board again? What if we pay and hire a moderator for you?

/Paul


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

I really don't wish to take this path again. Achiro pretty much summed up my thoughts.

As for Paul and Patrick, seriously you boys crack me up. You both really need to take a large spoon of fact medicine.

Besides...........

Let's get the pom pom's out and start cheering for our favorite handlers....

Gooooooooooooooooo Rainbolt...........


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I really don't wish to take this path again. Achiro pretty much summed up my thoughts.


You two probably discussed his wording while spooning this morning....

/Paul


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


>


Quit making fun of my favorite west coast team, the O Ducks' uniforms rock!


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Russ, first off you have posted a drivel in the middle of a thread that has nothing to do with this the topic.
> 
> Second, I didn’t say a word about your failed site.
> 
> ...


Seven…what the heck? Russ I am not sure if you have posted to this thread or not but you haven’t even been referenced in this thread…I think you need to go back and read the thread…you might be making yourself a little more important than you are in this discussion. Not trying to be mean…just not sure how you got what you got out of what has been written so far in this thread. I know you and I had a private discussion a few month ago about an issue but I thought that over with...in my mind it was.

Eight, I wouldn’t know Paul in a crowd of two and I am sure he will say the same thing about me as well.




Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Oh and for the record, Ken made you look like a little pansy whiny bitch almost every day on the board and like a whipped puppy you came back for more. You even came back to RTF chat and whined about it. I defended your sorry donkey more than once. I find it funny that your behavior of returning to your abuser continues here. I wonder who really needs counseling? “Love doesn’t hurt…”
> 
> /Paul





Obviously stuff went on the other board that some of us on RTF are unaware and actually would prefer to stay ignorant to if it is all the same to you. 

Happy Easter.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Russ, first off you have posted a drivel in the middle of a thread that has nothing to do with this the topic.
> 
> Second, I didn’t say a word about your failed site.
> 
> ...


It is official, you have completely lost your mind. You have zero sense of reality and you should seek help before you harm yourself or someone close to you. 
Ken made me look like what? There isn't a person on the face of this Earth that would get away with that while stood by and allowed it. This is the second time you have stated something to this effect the first I just let it go because of the timing this time I won't. 

I'm done with you Paul. If lying and skewing facts to try and make me look bad gives you some kind of weird pleasure you go right ahead. 


Patrick, I have to wonder who you are intending for people to think you are talking about in these posts? If you say it's not me then I have to take you at your word. 


Patrick Johndrow said:


> Yeah...now the TWO of them are back here on RTF





Patrick Johndrow said:


> That is why they should ban them from here...been preaching that to Chris but Mr. Atkinson always takes the high road and is very inclusive. I guess if Chris says we have to deal with undesirables we will.
> 
> Sometimes the truth sounds hateful regards


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I really don't wish to take this path again. Achiro pretty much summed up my thoughts.
> 
> As for Paul and Patrick, seriously you boys crack me up. You both really need to take a large spoon of fact medicine.
> 
> ...


Cant even go shopping without somebody taking my picture. The price i have to pay for being a star.


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

Ok, enough of the personal attacks. Please take any further discussion of other forums and personal grievances to PM status.

I don't see where this thread is of any further value to our members.

Thread locked.


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