# How to be a better shooter?



## lennie (Jan 15, 2003)

Okay, this is alittle embarassing, But...I am not new to shooting or to guns, I have shot skeet, trap and even sporting clays for fun. Albeit, I have never been a really good shooter, I have averaged 12-15 out of 20 shooting trap. This year for the first time, I have been taking my dogs out pheasant hunting by myself. The dogs are doing GREAT, they have had flushes each and every time we have been out, however, I have yet to bring any birds of of the field with me!  When I shoot trap, I always know when and where the clay is going to go, but in the field of course, I never feel prepared for the flush...even though I can tell when my dogs are getting birdy, it seems like I am never ready and when I am, the bird is gone! Now, my dogs don't mind and we have been having a grand time, except for not being able to put any on the table. We are lucky to be hunting an area were there are VERY few other hunters. Also, these are not "wild" birds as in NY we really only have "put and take" pheasant hunting. I am hunting with my father's old 1940's Ithaca 16ga pump shotgun, I am shooting 6's and 4's in no particular order....The other thing is I have been taking all 3 dogs afield with me because I feel bad about leaving one or more of them home! This has hurt me on a couple of occasions as I am watching one dog while the other flushes the bird...BUT...does anyone have any advise on how I can improve my shooting?


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

For shooting I'd recommend slowing down and stop over thinking the shot. I'm an average shot and I've found out when I rush cause "OMG the bird is gonna get away" I usually miss! Not to worry, you'll get use to "the look" if all else fails!


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

When I decided to become a better shooter, my goal was a bit different than yours. I wanted to become a reliable flyer shooter so that I could become a more valued member of my training group. 

Steps I took that helped me the most:

1. Working with competent gunfitter to modifiy the gun so it fit me. Helped me get a reliable move and mount so I'm usually shooting where I'm looking. I believe this helped more than any other factor.

2. Lessons by a certified instructor identified and correct flaws in my mechanics.

3. Consistent practice at the trap and skeet fields. The summer I started working to get better, I was on the clay fields 3 or 4 days per week (ammo was less expensive then). It helps that the range is less than 2 miles from my office.


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## Jay Brown (Sep 14, 2009)

First thing is to only hunt with one dog, take all 3, but swap out during the day. Second, take 2 or 3 lessons from an instructor in your area. Not just one lesson. You have made a great step in the right direction by admitting you need help with your shooting. That is the most difficult thing for american hunters to do, is admit to themselves they don't know how to shoot. Don't blow it all in thinking you know enough with 1 lesson. If yuo are really trying to get better, you will enjoy the coaching, and hitting more targets. there is a list of shooting instructors for your area on the NSCA website.
Good Luck, JB


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Most all of us shoot to fast, especially of farm raised birds.

Also,, 4 and 6 size shot are a bit on the large size for pen raised.
drop down to 7 1/2,s and pay attention to how the gun is choked.

Open chokes for close shooting will help you also..

I assume you are shooting lead shot.. If not,, and you are shooting steel,, then your shot size is prolly fine.

When a Pheasant flushes,, it sounds as though it is really haulin tail,, and gettin away fast.. In most cases this is not true. Next time you miss. Look at where the bird was when you shot.. I bet you will be surprised at how close he really was..

I like most of my shots to be at about 35 yrds.. ..

Now,, with all that said....

I was aked(AXED) to shoot pigeons this last saturday training..

I was asked to throw and shoot both..

It was windy,, snowing and I had on thousands of layers of clothes..

I embarrassed my self..

I had to break a wing...

I went home feelin a bit looserish!

Plus i was a shiverin looser...

bad drive home..

I really suck...

I need more practice..

At the range.

If I had to hunt for my food... I would have to be a vegetarian annd club carrots...

Gooser


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

lennie said:


> Okay, this is alittle embarassing, But...I am not new to shooting or to guns, I have shot skeet, trap and even sporting clays for fun. Albeit, I have never been a really good shooter, I have averaged 12-15 out of 20 shooting trap. This year for the first time, I have been taking my dogs out pheasant hunting by myself. The dogs are doing GREAT, they have had flushes each and every time we have been out, however, I have yet to bring any birds of of the field with me!  When I shoot trap, I always know when and where the clay is going to go, but in the field of course, I never feel prepared for the flush...even though I can tell when my dogs are getting birdy, it seems like I am never ready and when I am, the bird is gone! Now, my dogs don't mind and we have been having a grand time, except for not being able to put any on the table. We are lucky to be hunting an area were there are VERY few other hunters. Also, these are not "wild" birds as in NY we really only have "put and take" pheasant hunting. I am hunting with my father's old 1940's Ithaca 16ga pump shotgun, I am shooting 6's and 4's in no particular order....The other thing is I have been taking all 3 dogs afield with me because I feel bad about leaving one or more of them home! This has hurt me on a couple of occasions as I am watching one dog while the other flushes the bird...BUT...does anyone have any advise on how I can improve my shooting?


On the contrary, if you shoot trap at a range, you don't know the angle the bird leaves the house in 16 yd. targets or handicap targets. Skeet and sporting clays both have a known angle. I suspect that you are not shooting at a trap range because a round of trap consists of 25 targets. I didn't shoot well either for years. However, I started shooting competition about 5 or 6 years ago and the people I shoot with average 96-99. They have helped me immensely. BTW, trap at a range very much simulates upland hunting---birds are rising birds, they are going away as they rise, the angle is unpredictable, and clay targets travel fast. Since I have improved my shooting, my amount of missed birds has decreased greatly.

What you need to address is: one eyed vs. two eyed shooting, POI of your gun, consistent gun mount, patterning your loads, and not looking at the bead/barrel of your gun (most important). When I start missing I find it is because I start looking at the barrel. Reasons for stopping your swing: looking at the barrel, aiming (looking at the barrel again), and not keeping your cheek on the gun (keep wood to wood).

The best thing you can do is hook up with some real target shooters and start shooting. I shoot about 5000 targets a year myself. I could shoot more. I also get asked to shoot at hunt tests and training sessions. I would rather not but I don't like the shooting that I see.


PS We tend to look at the body of a bird because the wings are flapping and we shoot for the body. No good. Start thinking head shots. I like what I see when I hit them in the head. They go down real dead.


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## Daren Galloway (Jun 28, 2012)

When I was learning to shoot, not the first few times but after I got the hang of it, when I put the gun to my shoulder and then called for the clay my dad said "a pheasant ain't gonna wait for you to shoulder your gun". I assume you shoulder your gun before calling for a clay on the trap range as most people do. I would practice holding the gun like you are walking for pheasants and then call for the bird, shoulder the gun and shoot. It made me a lot better shot.


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## Jay Brown (Sep 14, 2009)

All of what gngnyc pointed out are good points, and all of those will be addressed by a certified instructor. I would also suggest, that it is better to take "lessons" from one instructor, rather than from a group of shooters. Unless the whole group are instructors. It makes things a little easier, or flow smoother! Good luck, JB


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> PS We tend to look at the body of a bird because the wings are flapping and we shoot for the body. No good. Start thinking head shots. I like what I see when I hit them in the head. They go down real dead.


excellent point and one of my weaknesses which I remind myself of constantly, also dominant eye although 2 of the best wing shooters I hunt with are left eye dominant but shoot right handed


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

EdA said:


> excellent point and one of my weaknesses which I remind myself of constantly, also dominant eye although 2 of the best wing shooters I hunt with are left eye dominant but shoot right handed


EdA 

All the books, magazines, and "experts" will tell you to shoot with both eyes open. A lot of outstanding shooters shoot with one eye open. My shooting partners are all one eyed shooters. I shut my left eye when I found out that eye dominance can switch. An alternative is to put tape/shooting dot on the left lens of your glasses and continue to shoot from the right shoulder. And don't forget the significance aging has on vision.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

sportnclays said:


> All of what gngnyc pointed out are good points, and all of those will be addressed by a certified instructor. I would also suggest, that it is better to take "lessons" from one instructor, rather than from a group of shooters. Unless the whole group are instructors. It makes things a little easier, or flow smoother! Good luck, JB



Real good advice sportnclays.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

> When I shoot trap, I always know when and where the clay is going to go, but in the field of course, I never feel prepared for the flush...even though I can tell when my dogs are getting birdy, it seems like I am never ready and when I am, the bird is gone!


Back when I was much younger one of our hunting group consistently shot about 23 out of 25 on the trap range. However, he just couldn't hit a thing when it really counted (hunting). 

As Lainee said, in the "grand scheme of things" (hunting), thinking too much about the shot will often lead to frustrations. Habits and expectations must be nurtured. 

The first thing you need to do is make sure your gun consistently mounts toward the target. Put a small piece of tape on a mirror. Do NOT see the gun sight or barrel......look only at the target as you hold the gun in a normal walking/hunting motion. Focusing only on the tape, snap your gun up to a shooting position and then visually check the alignment of the barrel with the target. Does the gun consistently point at what you are looking at? Practice this mounting process (in front of the mirror) until it is automatically correct all the time. Gun fit and consistent mounting are two huge issues that are rarely dealt with properly. 

Just when you seem to have this taken care of, the "hunting clothes of the day" can change how the gun mounts. In additoin, if you think too much about lead, wind, feeling rushed and have little confidence....poor results are inevitable. 

When I'm at the trap range most are shooting for a high score. When I shoot trap, I practice like I hunt. Using the gun I normally hunt with, I do not have the gun mounted until after saying "pull" and I do not always face in the exact direction the "pigeon" is expected to appear from. Practice getting the gun into the correct postion and looking at the "pigeon". Until this is accomplished, you will not really know where your gun is aimed. Practice until it just is! 

For "swing" I start behind, under or over the target and swing in the correct direction based on the speed of the bird. The key is to "catch up" to the target while swinging. Practice swinging through the target faster than it is moving. Not all swings are the same speed. A second shot may find you thinking "catch up you fool". The third shot (automatic) usually means "see you later'. When I see the bird/clay pigeon and continue the barrel movement, I shoot (looking ONLY at the clay targert or bird). I do not track, "reach" a lead and hold it (ever). This evidently makes me more of an instinctive shooter. I can live with the results.  

"Swing" is different depending on direction. Shooting for ducks or pheasants is usually "different". Ducks are more often than not passing shots or incoming. Pheasants are most often flying away (flushed). On an away shot, the usual error is shooting under/behind. 

A properly mounted gun, learning how to "swing" based on the kind of bird and velocity in flight, practicing with different layers of hunting clothes and confidence need to be dealt with in that order. Then you have to think about your foot work. 

Pheasants won't be dropping until you expect it to happen. Expectations are best established by following a plan not based on "a wing and a prayer".


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> EdA
> 
> All the books, magazines, and "experts" will tell you to shoot with both eyes open. A lot of outstanding shooters shoot with one eye open. My shooting partners are all one eyed shooters. I shut my left eye when I found out that eye dominance can switch. An alternative is to put tape/shooting dot on the left lens of your glasses and continue to shoot from the right shoulder. And don't forget the significance aging has on vision.


I shoot with both eyes open but in the beginning I used a smear of vaseline on the lens of my non-dominant eye


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## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

A couple of lesson and good gun fit help immensely but there is nothing like more time afield with live targets. Hook up with a great snow goose guide where you can unload 100-200 rounds a day at live birds and watch the improvement. Farm raised just ain't the same caliber. TX mid January and MO for the conservation season come to mind first.


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## lennie (Jan 15, 2003)

Jacduck...That sounds great....U payin for me to get there? (wink, wink)

I think the use of a certified instructor could be really really helpful, I know gun fit is importent, but it is highly unlikely I will be modifying my dad's gun...it is too cool to be in anything but it's original, very used condition! One thing I forgot to mention (though some of you may know) is I am a women. 

I think I will need to save my $$ and buy myself a gun and have it custom fitted. (I'm alittle tapped out right now as I just bought a new rifle for deer hunting next week). I also think some of you are right...I may be rushing the shots, as I am alittle anxious. I really don't understand the whole right eye, left eye, dominent eye thing...I don't even know if I am shooting with both eyes open or not? I think I am, but will have to pay more attention next time...anyone want to explain the eye thing?

Thanks,
Earlene


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

lennie said:


> J...anyone want to explain the eye thing?
> 
> Thanks,
> Earlene


Well, the main thing is to have at least ONE open!! ;-)

I din't understand the mirror trick.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

If you figure out how to hit birds better particularly those evil little dove things let me know . Still what has helped me was getting a lesson, and finding out my gun didn't fit me (thus I wasn't mounting it right) and finding out that I was about 100% left eye dominant, which put my shot ~ 3ft in the wrong direction when I shot. Corrected those issues was able to hit Ducks most of the time, not those stupid dove. Still wild pheasants are about the toughest creature on earth, we had three guys shoot and solidly hit one bird on opener (golden pheasants, nitro's, and high brass steel 3;s), knocked it backward, yet it still got up to run.

Went to a Ladies gun seminar awhile back , of 10 women 9 of them were left eye or center eye dominate, the one righty had a astigmatism in her left eye. So I'd look into that


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

lennie said:


> Jacduck...That sounds great....U payin for me to get there? (wink, wink)
> 
> I think the use of a certified instructor could be really really helpful, I know gun fit is importent, but it is highly unlikely I will be modifying my dad's gun...it is too cool to be in anything but it's original, very used condition! One thing I forgot to mention (though some of you may know) is I am a women.
> 
> ...


with both eyes open pick out an object at about 20-30 yards away, point at the object, with your hand still in position look with one eye open, alternate opening one while closing the other, your dominant eye will be the one that lines up your finger and the object


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Or put shot gun up look out, at a fixed object. Do you see two barrels, that intercept in the center? (left or center eye) Both eyes open Do you see the strip down the barrel with the sight or do you see, the side of the barrel? (side of the barrel left eye) Do you get dizzy when you throw a gun up quickly, and have to adapt you eyes to make a shot? Get a pair of sun-glasses, mount gun look out beyond the gun. Close right eye take a chap-stick and blur out the piece of barrel you see in the left eye. open both eyes and you should see only one barrel, the correct one. Eye dominance solved


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

EdA said:


> I shoot with both eyes open but in the beginning I used a smear of vaseline on the lens of my non-dominant eye


I am cross eye dominant as well. Back when I was into shooting skeet, I got a nifty little translucent dot to put over my shooting glasses. Nowadays, I start with both open but close the left. With both open I am never pointing close to my target. Not that I am a very good shot either way.

What I would really like to learn how to do is to toss a duck or pigeon and shoot it myself. I can throw them or I can shoot them (preferably with backup) but I can't do it all by myself. That would be useful.


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## steve schreiner (Jun 15, 2009)

Hunt for food ...no food , no eat ....use a single shot gun ...no pumps or auto loaders....necessity is a great teacher....instructions and gun fit help too....Steve S


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## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

Jacduck...That sounds great....U payin for me to get there? (wink, wink)

Sorry, I just had to order 2 more cases of ammo so money is short, plus CC (da boss lady) just went and bought her non-resi license here in TX after we saw 10,000 geese spread among 3 different fields that we control. She is excited cause she can always M-T her gun at anything and that really costs me more than my sons did. We also found one of our ponds full of pintails so we are up early in the morning.

In all seriousness a snow goose hunt improved my shooting greatly and as a youngster I ended up at the 21 yard line in handicap trap so I was already an okay shooter. At the goose hunt on the Katy Prairie here in TX 8 of us got 162 geese one morning. Pheasants often stump me though, too much tail.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

DoubleHaul said:


> ....What I would really like to learn how to do is to toss a duck or pigeon and shoot it myself. I can throw them or I can shoot them (preferably with backup) but I can't do it all by myself. That would be useful.


right handed? duck in left hand head forward feet down held by the "armpits". shotgun in right hand held by pistol grip finger along side of not inside trigger guard and resting on right shoulder. swing duck back and step into and smooth underhand throw. Some say like throwing a horse shoe. at moment of release of bird pivot right wrist bringing gun off shoulder and slaming it onto waiting open left hand in one swell foop. You will be aiming at bird you just tossed. wait 3 wing beats, pull trigger. easy, breezy, Beautiful !


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> If you figure out how to hit birds better particularly those evil little dove things let me know . Still what has helped me was getting a lesson, and finding out my gun didn't fit me (thus I wasn't mounting it right) and finding out that I was about 100% left eye dominant, which put my shot ~ 3ft in the wrong direction when I shot. Corrected those issues was able to hit Ducks most of the time, not those stupid dove. Still wild pheasants are about the toughest creature on earth, we had three guys shoot and solidly hit one bird on opener (golden pheasants, nitro's, and high brass steel 3;s), knocked it backward, yet it still got up to run.
> 
> Went to a Ladies gun seminar awhile back , of 10 women 9 of them were left eye or center eye dominate, the one righty had a astigmatism in her left eye. So I'd look into that


I think it is the opinion of Phil Kiner (shooting coach) that many women are cross eye dominant, more women than men anyway.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

http://www.polywad.com/spredr.html


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## Brokengunz (Sep 3, 2011)

practice>>>
when practicing your gun mount with tape on a mirror, start out very slow and precise. Gradually increase the speed as it gets comfortable. what you are doing is training your arms to work together. the grip for shooting trap or skeet is different than for shooting international skeet or hunting. tight grip on the fore end of the gun, light grip on the pistol grip. once you master mounting on the tape, the next step is tracking the edge of the ceiling and wall as you mount your gun, (as if following a pheas>) practice 100 times a night, (per international skeet coach) also have someone check your gun fit, and pattern it so you know where it is shooting when you point it. Good luck


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## Gunner's Dad (Jul 18, 2012)

Shooting is something that has to become instinctual. Way to much practice is still not enough. If shooting skeet (for hunting practice) i like to use a hand thrower. Sure it is more work but i never know where it is going to go, and no two are the same. also i have to agree that you practice like you play. Gun down and resting then "pull" and shoot. 

The whole eye thing is crazy. Im a neither eye dominant person my self. but i never think about it, i just shoot. You think you miss. I think it is in the movie "the patriot" aim small miss small. Dont think just shoot.


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Start shooting sporting clays and ask for advice from the better shooters at your club, most guys are very willing to help. Sporting clays is the best practice for the types of shots you will see when hunting.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

is sporting clay were the shooter walks a rout or path from spot to spot and targets come out?


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## The Snows (Jul 19, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> is sporting clay were the shooter walks a rout or path from spot to spot and targets come out?


Yes .... and each station is a different scenario like birds coming out over your head, coming from one side or the other, a low "running rabbit" kind of shot, etc.


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## Brokengunz (Sep 3, 2011)

One thing about a pheasant is you have a better chance of killing it when it is upward or crossing. Once it flattens out and is going away you are shooting at < I have seen where the shot glances of the birds back, and does penetrate enough to knock them down. You have to break a wing or hit something vital to bring them down. Pen birds seem to climb more out of the hole, wild birds don't give you that chance. They jump farther out and stay low and flat to the cover. Being slow on wild birds is a problem.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> is sporting clay were the shooter walks a rout or path from spot to spot and targets come out?


Yup- also where I go to brush up on my swearing techniques.

Good excuse creation exercise as well regards

Bubba


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## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

I used to shoot in a trap league. I was(am) just an average shot. I asked one of the clubs best shots one time how to get better at it. He told me when that I wear out my second reloader I'd be good.


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## Broadbill (Mar 12, 2010)

On my swing through I was always taught, Butt...Bird...Beak...BOOM!
BB


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## rookie (Sep 22, 2003)

I hunt Pheasants at least 4 times a week and have been harvesting several on a days hunt at our game club. From my personal experience when shooting pheasants 7 1/2 are good early in the season but 6s are much better in the late season. I use a skeet choke in my upper barrel and full choke in the lower. 71/2 upper barrel and 6 in the lower barrel. Next thing that is important is what is my leed on the bird? Cross shot follow up on the bird and fire when you are on the head! Do not stop your swing or you will miss. Going away shot is just like a rifle shot apple on a fence post. It is not necessary to leed a pheasant by much as you shot travels at 1200 feet per second and most shots are with in 40 yds! 
Good Luck and good hunting
Warren Price
www.trainrite.net


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## Bob Walton (Jan 1, 2007)

Follow through , Live birds or clay targets. Head on stock and track the bird or target after the shot. Many new shooters come out of the gun (pick head off stock) a split second early and shoot over the target.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Just shot 200 rnds at Sporting Clays today..

20stations,,, 10 birds at each station

Score was 165

Pretty good for me..

I found the more I thought about (tracked) the shot,, the more often I would drop(miss) the bird.

Sporting Clays are a great game,, You are presented with many different angles and speeds with the targets. many times Incomming,, Many times from behind you and droppin in on you like ducks.. Some come from elevated Platforms,, and simulate sky bustin ducks

I shot with my Son, who I havent seen in over a year,,,

Great day.

Wanna be a better shot??? PRACTICE,, PRACTICE,, PRACTICE


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## h20fowler (Apr 12, 2012)

By no means am I a great shot. But one thing that i do occasionally is take my shotgun either outside or in the house (gun is empty) and with the gun mounted try and follow either the crown molding inside or maybe even the edge of a distance roof outside. I try and run my bead down the edge of either without pulling off and staying as level as possible.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Bob Walton said:


> Follow through , Live birds or clay targets. Head on stock and track the bird or target after the shot. Many new shooters come out of the gun (pick head off stock) a split second early and shoot over the target.


Common mistake is to take your head off the stock to see if you hit the target/bird. You end up shooting low and behind.


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Broadbill said:


> On my swing through I was always taught, Butt...Bird...Beak...BOOM!
> BB


And what do you do when it is a small black disc with orange paint? But I must say you do well at Sporting Clays so I better take your advice.


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

h20fowler said:


> By no means am I a great shot. But one thing that i do occasionally is take my shotgun either outside or in the house (gun is empty) and with the gun mounted try and follow either the crown molding inside or maybe even the edge of a distance roof outside. I try and run my bead down the edge of either without pulling off and staying as level as possible.


Another good drill is to place a mag light in the barrel...and practice the move and mount of the gun so that the beam of the flashlight stays on the crown molding...I find that using the flashlight helps keep eyes on the target rather than the barrel.


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

This helps a lot, although your spouse might think you are a little crazy. It keeps your eyes on the target as well as letting you see where your barrel is pointing at all times. You can work on smoothing out your mount so that your barrel doesn't dip under the target as you bring the butt to your shoulder. 

Might want to tape around the Mag Lite to keep it from damaging the choke threads, but I am overly cautious. 



jeff t. said:


> Another good drill is to place a mag light in the barrel...and practice the move and mount of the gun so that the beam of the flashlight stays on the crown molding...I find that using the flashlight helps keep eyes on the target rather than the barrel.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Some great advice here!I deal with your problem day in and day out with clients here.GET A GUN THAT YOU CAN ADJUST!!!!!!Shooting will dramatically get better with a properly fitted gun.Shoot it on paper to see where your hitting then make adjustments asneeded to length of pull<drop of comb<cant left or right>jGood luck,Jim


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

jd6400 said:


> Some great advice here!I deal with your problem day in and day out with clients here.GET A GUN THAT YOU CAN ADJUST!!!!!!Shooting will dramatically get better with a properly fitted gun.Shoot it on paper to see where your hitting then make adjustments asneeded to length of pull<drop of comb<cant left or right>jGood luck,Jim


One of the best things I did was to have an adjustable comb put in my Model 3200. I now want to put one in to my 870 Wingmaster. It makes quite a difference. My Mossberg has a homemade "Moleskin" comb adjustment on it in an attempt to get it to shoot like my trap gun.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

And then when you finally think you've got this shooting "thing" down really well, go on a duck hunt when there's a fifteen mph cross "breeze", the temperature is almost freezing and the sun is in your eyes. In addition, you're wearing chest waders, layered clothing, a heavy coat and "supposedly warm" gloves (always containing less than warm fingers). 

Final practice sessions "on the job" are required and silent expletives allowed. 

For example, this layout hunt (see photo) required throwing back an overhead cover, mounting a gun from my lap while "lurching" to a sitting position after lying on my backside (for sometimes long periods of time) so as to shoot ducks (maybe) that I might not see until the last moment coming from all kinds of unpredictable directions.

The coolest instant of the morning was trying to pick out a single greenwing teal from a tight "wad" of over fifty that buzzed in from the left and did a full speed, "breath taking" 180° reverse right over my decoys. 

You just can't practice that. What a rush! 

Gunny picked up two. 

*Gunny's layout hunt on the Mississippi (yesterday morning)*









*Gunny's retrieves*


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Many Sporting Clays courses have very realistic Hunting senarios you can practice on.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)




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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

MooseGooser said:


>


From where did you get that smiley?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> From where did you get that smiley?


I think from one of the shotgunning forums.. I think..


Its NOT really very realistic.. If Ya notice,, the little guy does just what most the rest of us do ,, and he shoots about 4 feet behind the target!

On days I dont have anything to do,, I will sit for Hours and watch to see if he ever misses it..


Gooser


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## rookie (Sep 22, 2003)

Gooser
You have way to much time on your hands! )



MooseGooser said:


> I think from one of the shotgunning forums.. I think..
> 
> 
> Its NOT really very realistic.. If Ya notice,, the little guy does just what most the rest of us do ,, and he shoots about 4 feet behind the target!
> ...


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I guy helped me once when he told me.... If yer gonna miss,,,, miss in front..


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

MooseGooser said:


> I guy helped me once when he told me.... If yer gonna miss,,,, miss in front..


In the days that you could shoot lead while waterfowling, I made some really nice shots by getting way out in front of the bird. I made use of the long shot string. The shot string is useless unless you are in front of the bird.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

MooseGooser said:


> I guy helped me once when he told me.... If yer gonna miss,,,, miss in front..


Is there a never fail formula for that because I would like to commit it to memory. My current technique is to estimate the lead you need and double it but for high flying pheasants going downwind (30 mph) it isn't working. :shock:


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

How to learn to shoot:

Use a gun that fits you at least within reason, use an "open" choke, use small shot, shoot with someone that knows how, shoot skeet with your gun down, try it with both eyes open, mount the gun after you see the target. After every 1000 targets you will notice improvement.

You need to shoot to learn how, some people try to practice by hunting. One trip to the range and you can shoot 100 targets that are going to come out when you tell them to. You'll know exactly where they're coming from and going to.

In the simplest sense it's about seeing the target then pointing where you're looking. If your gun fits within reason it will shoot where you're looking. If it doesn't fit quite right you'll adjust without noticing. No aiming and little thinking, just watch the target, mount the gun and shoot.

When someone else is shooting stand behind them, when the bird comes out just point your finger at it instead of the gun, and follow it along it's flight. Realize that the target you are going to shoot is going as slow as the one you're pointing your finger at. It doesn't help to rush things when it's you who's actually shooting. Don't say "pull" and rush to mount the gun. See the target, follow it's flight while mounting the gun. Some skeet stations lend themselves to waiting a long time before you actually shoot. Low 1 and high 7 especially. If it's possible just start by shooting a round of targets from those two stations.

I like the skeet range, sporting clays are great fun when you know how to shoot, but aren't a good place to learn in my opinion. At least the ones I've seen.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

EdA said:


> Is there a never fail formula for that because I would like to commit it to memory. My current technique is to estimate the lead you need and double it but for high flying pheasants going downwind (30 mph) it isn't working. :shock:



I know,,,,, Right???,,,,,, Shaw!!!


What that guy meant was to make your lead uncomfortable in front.. Especially on hard crossers and high targets.
If you look at the picture above, in the background you see a very tall tower.
That tower holds the clay machines. they can raise and lower the elevation.
I have stood at that 1 station to practice, and shot 200 rounds at the same paires, to teach myself lead..
One day I shot 200 rounds,, and broke 19 birds.. The birds I broke,, I was amazed at how far out in front of the bird I had to be to break it..

Lead fpr me at least is a "Feeling". It just feels right at the moment just before you pull the trigger.. To tell anyone how many feet ,, I dont know how you do that.

I think its practice.

That tower station is really a challenge.. When they throw a pair,, 1 target will be haulin tail,, while the trailer willbe moving much slower. Soyou have to adjust lead from 1 target to the next, right after you think you figgered it out on the first bird.

That station also replicates ducks droppin into decoys from high above, and behind you. A very hard shot for me//

When shooting birds,, I try and concentrate on the head,, and forget the body, and especially that long trailing tail on a Pheasant,,then when presented with that long shot going with the wind, I make the lead uncomfortable to break the *beak*,, and also make sure I have a heavier shot size in to compenste for the wind,

If you can,, someday go and shoot a pattern board with small size shot with a crosswind.. make the distance 40 yards or better,,,, You will be very surprised what the wind does... Windy days,, tighter chokes,, larger shot

JMHO.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

If you think about it,, when shooting a clay target,,, that target is about the killing diameter of the head of a bird...

so when shooting clays,, and consistently breaking tartgets,, head shots,, or the term "Shoot em in the lips" makes perfect sense."
When you go to the field to hunt,,, break the head and neck,,, and the bird is stone dead,,, and eats alot better also.

But,,all that said,, shooting feathers and clay birds is different.. at least fer me..

Gooser


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

NEVER<<<<< NEVER >>>>> Pay attention to the end of the gun barrel!!

These guys that place fancy colored beads or flourecent glow beads on the barrel,, IMHO,, are just axing fer trouble..

You shoulds be "seeing" the Target. and "feeling" the gun.

When Target shooting,, look to see the rings impressioned on the clay,, or the printing in the center..

When hunting,, look to see the bird "Blink" or "stick its tounge out" at you as it flys away.
Forget the barrels and the Bead on the end of it..

Point the gun

Gooser


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Tip for shooting in strong wind:


Birds that are flying but seem to be not moving due to extremely strong wind, i.e not moving yet flapping wings with a speed relative to the shooter of zero, still need a lead. Common mistake is to shoot at the bird as if it is standing still. Lead is needed to account for the wind.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

I am left eye dominate but shoot right handed. My uncle norm hated that so as a kid mearnie learn to shoot left handed, sure pisses people off when i switch and still hit birds. When shooting right I squint my right eye enough to make the left do the work and learned where to point. Most birds are missed due to not following through and raising head off the stock. 

/paul


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> I am left eye dominate but shoot right handed. My uncle norm hated that so as a kid mearnie learn to shoot left handed, sure pisses people off when i switch and still hit birds. When shooting right I squint my right eye enough to make the left do the work and learned where to point. Most birds are missed due to not following through and raising head off the stock.
> 
> /paul



A trapshooter would say you're better off shooting from the left. Here's your excuse for a new gun designed for left handedness.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> A trapshooter would say you're better off shooting from the left. Here's your excuse for a new gun designed for left handedness.


Your exactly right, and uncle norm shot trap competively. I have a custom gun made for left hand shooting, big smile. I also have my uncle norms custom trap gun, my aunt gave it to me when he passed. Means more to me than you can imagine

/Paul


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Your exactly right, and uncle norm shot trap competively. I have a custom gun made for left hand shooting, big smile. I also have my uncle norms custom trap gun, my aunt gave it to me when he passed. Means more to me than you can imagine
> 
> /Paul


I suspect that you are quite a good shot. Have you shot any of the East Coast shoots?


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

gdgnyc said:


> I suspect that you are quite a good shot. Have you shot any of the East Coast shoots?


No never been out there. Used to a lot out here. Now mostly I just cc young dogs to here, and say fetch a lot.

/paul


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Now mostly I just cc young dogs to here, and say fetch a lot.
> 
> /paul


Successfully, I hope.


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