# Look like it's Lymphoma. Never been through this. Advice and prayers appreciated.



## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

I posted almost 2 weeks ago on this thread:

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?124330-My-11-y-o-YLM-could-use-your-prayers

But it doesn't look like people are seeing the updates and I was unable to update the title of the thread.

On Thursday they called and said that the initial results on the spleen were negative for the type of cancers they normally expect, but the lab wanted to do another stain for lymphoma because the spleen was so unusual. We are still waiting on those results.

Then on Friday I took him in to get stitches removed (the ones they put in at the emergency vet) and I told them he was not bouncing back the way I thought he should and they took more blood. His blood values had not improved since the surgery 10 days prior. So they took some more blood and sent it off for more analysis than what they could do in house. On Saturday the vet logged in and was able to see partial results on the blood. Something in his blood that starts with "lymp" was extremely elevated and she would now be very surprised if it is not lymphoma. She started him on Prednisone on Saturday and he does seem to be feeling better this morning but he is losing weight visibly even though he is eating the normal volume of food.

She said that depending on whether it is T cell or B cell she will recommend Chemo. I always figured chemo made dogs feel bad like it does humans (and therefore I would be very unlikely to do it) but she says most dogs tend to feel better with the Chemo and the chemo and prednisone help with the anemia which makes them feel better and be able to move around better without being short of breath.

The vet said everything about this presentation is very strange. His lymph nodes seem fine. It is very unusual for lymphoma to appear in the spleen before anywhere else and it is unusual for it to be so high in the blood without the lymph nodes being inflamed. She said it is almost certainly in his bone marrow now. I don't know if this unusual presentation makes his prognosis worse or better but my gut tells me it is not good. He seems to be going downhill fast.

I expect to hear today that he does have lymphoma and I'll have to decide whether to do chemo or just give prednisone and try to make him feel better as long as we can.

I know there are many on this site who have been in this lousy circumstance so I would appreciate hearing your experiences and advice. Are you glad you did Chemo? Regret it? Etc.

This is heartbreaking. It is tough to see him this way.

I'm going to be away from the computer for several hours but I do look forward to your responses and I will reply to them when I return. I expect to have to make a decision this afternoon or tomorrow morning with regard to Chemo.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Don't have experience with this. But, so sorry for the terrible news.
I see you are in Atlanta. Maybe a trip to Auburn would be helpful?


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## a.curtin2011 (Jul 7, 2014)

I went through this with my last Lab. Her case never presented normally either. She kept having horrible diarrhea all. the. time. and the University Vet Med kept telling me it wasn't related to the cancer. 
They started Katie on prednisone, and then we started chemo (I couldn't do the most expensive, but did the "middle" option). She seemed to get better for about two weeks...and then it became a constant battle of pills, getting her to eat, getting up every hour all night long so she could go outside and strain for 20 minutes. Driving home on my lunch break and straight home after work every day to clean my floors from her accidents. Nothing was going in, so I don't know how it kept coming out. I kept asking the vets if they were trying everything. Had they checked all the possibilities. And then I started telling them, we can't keep doing this. The vet kept arguing she was going to turn around. Finally, at the end, I clued in. I said the only time she was better was when she was on the prednisone, and right about that time she stopped drinking water. Dropped her off at the vet's so they could run more tests and before I even made it to work they called and said it was in her bloodstream now, I went back and had her euthanized. It was almost exactly 8 weeks from her diagnosis.

I've heard a lot of good success stories on chemo, so I can't say I'd never consider it again if faced with lymphoma..but I don't know. We had an unusual case and while I don't regret trying (I let her go knowing we had literally left no stone unturned looking for an answer), it was a mentally and physically exhausting time for us. Other than those first couple of weeks on the prednisone, we never bought any quality time. I wish I'd let her go sooner. 

I am so sorry you are facing this. Prayers for peace, whatever course of action you decide on.

ETA: Katie was an otherwise healthy, active 9yo at the time.


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## Sally Berry (Nov 11, 2007)

I had a dog that was diagnosed with Lymphoma and I did put him on chemo. He did very well with it but he was only 4 years old and had a fairly typical case. I was able to continue training and competing in agility and he had good quality of life. It bought us 16 more months. It was very expensive and I don't think I would make the same choice with an older dog. There are many types of lymphoma and each dog reacts differently. There is an excellent support group "Lymphoma Heart Dogs" on Yahoo groups should you choose to go with the chemo. I changed my dog to a grain free/low carb diet which was also helpful. My experience was also that getting the dog on chemo within 2 weeks of first noticing symptoms contributed to my dog's good response to the chemo. He came out of remission at a year and was started on a second round of chemo. Shortly after the 2nd protocol he came out of remission again and was gone within 2 weeks.

Sally


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## Erin O'Brien (Mar 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear this! Someone I know did chemo, and their dog didn't have any side effects from it. Praying for improvement!


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

So sorry if this turns out to be the diagnosis. I've also had a Lab with lymphoma, years ago. Chemo did not bother her, it generally does not bother dogs the way it can humans. It bought us a year. It was expensive, no doubt, but it didn't make her sick or anything. I don't know that I would do full bore chemo on an older dog again though, myself, or stick with more comfort-care type measures, just do prednisone, etc. It really will depend on your dog's case, once you get results back, maybe consult a specialist for all of your options. 

Thinking the best for you and Boomer.


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## lennie (Jan 15, 2003)

I am so very sorry you are going through this, it is very hard and I am praying for strength for you and your boy. 

I did go through this in March with my almost 14 yo CLF. I did not do Chemo, my vet thought she was too far gone for Chemo, however she only presented with symptoms a couple weeks before?? We put her on pred and she only did well for about a week. As you said it was heartbreaking watching her decline, I couldn't let her suffer... That being said, my girl was older than your boy...If my 10 year old was diagnosed, I might do things different if I had the means. If not, I would give them as many good days as I could, then say goodbye...

However, as for just Chemo, one pup from an earlier litter developed a skin cancer that was successfully treated with Chemo at 4 years old and he is 8 years old today. He did not suffer any side effects from his chemo. 

Cancer SUCKS!!! It has taken too many of my loved ones canine and human...I HATE IT!
I Hate that you or any of us has to go through it...

God Bless, Prayers for you.
Earlene


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

The chemo bought me and my boy another 8 months together. First treatment coupled with prednisone held him quite well for a few months. As therapy continued and the disease progressed, the chemo become less and less effective. He was 10 years of age and in prime condition before being diagnosed.

I am praying for you in whatever decision you make my friend..

God Bless,


Richard


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## Guest (May 23, 2016)

Im so sorry to heart this , prayers sent to you. I had dogs with lymphosarcoma . The side effects of the chemo were to much. I didn't want them to spend their last days sick, losing control of their functions and everything else that goes along with the chemo and or drugs. We chose to let them live their life as happy as possible and when they time came to let them go. Thats just me and they were all older dogs. I had a friend that did chemo on her lab she said he was very sick from it & started feeling better about the time for another round of treatment..he lived about 6 months longer. If she had it to do again she said she would not. Prayers are sent its a tough decision do whats best for your dog.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

So sorry-wish I could offer some other info ,but know that I feel awful that this may be your diagnosis. Go with your gut-regarding treatment....


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## awclark (Oct 20, 2007)

I have been through this with two English pointers. One was 7 and one was 8. I explored all the options and chose in both cases to just keep them on steroids and let them enjoy the time they had left. I seem to recall giving them pepcid, too, which kept their stomachs calm. Neither one lasted very long, but I did not regret my decision. Had they been younger, perhaps I would have considered chemo, but it was a very expensive option at the time. They were litter mates, so perhaps there was a genetic predisposition. I wish you the best. Never an easy decision.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Erin O'Brien said:


> Sorry to hear this! Someone I know did chemo, and their dog didn't have any side effects from it. Praying for improvement!


My dog is currently on week 19 of the 27 week CHOP chemotherapy protocol and is doing great. He won an am at week 9 which qualified him for the amateur national next month. We plan to be there. PM me your phone number, I would be happy to chat. I've learned a lot in the last six months.


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## 308ruger (Apr 8, 2016)

Found out Sam had lymphoma when he was 12.

Man was it hard. Doc suggested chemo, but said if it were her, she would just spoil the dog and keep him comfortable at that age. 

Prednisone kept him comfortable, and you almost didn't know he was sick for a couple weeks. But we knew it wasn't a cure. 

I gave him anything he wanted during that time, steaks, chocolate, ale. 

He's gone now and boy was it difficult. 

Had he been younger we would have done the chemo, I have no regret. I totally understand what you're going through. Cancer bites.


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## Repaupo (Apr 28, 2005)

I wish I had more to offer but you both are in my prayers.


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## oneshotlu (Mar 12, 2014)

My 12 year old Jack Russell was diagnosed with lymphoma a little over a month ago. I spent a month just trying to figure out what was wrong with him and then finally took him to Gulf Coast in Houston for an ultrasound... I will never forget the moment the dr told me he had lymphoma, I had driven an hour and a half by myself and then had to make the drive home after hearing that news. We decided to try chemo at my local vet and he has responded okay but not great. He's continued to have diarrhea and vomiting off and on throughout the process and we have had some serious ups and downs. I will say that this extra time with him has given me an opportunity to do some of his favorite things and he has had a blast even though he isn't feeling 100% all the time. He even got to be honor dog at a senior hunt test and we have been shooting collared dove for him to retrieve when we can catch them. I don't think we have much time left as it doesn't seem that he is responding to the chemo like he should be, but I don't regret trying it and I think he is still comfortable enough where I don't need to call it just yet. I absolutely feel your pain and I will be following this thread closely as I am going through the same process right now. If you have any questions feel free to ask.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Gee Just one big tear... So sorry for what's in front of you... God bless you and your dog, remember you will be together again someday.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

My guy had Mast cell. Choices were chemo or steroids. The chemo had o track record of success. We went with the Pred., he lived another two months.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Thank you everyone for your replies. I thought I would be getting the complete blood results today but I did not...very frustrating. I feel like we're fiddling while Rome is burning. This thing has hit him hard and fast. He did have a better day today than he has had in probably a week or more, due to the Prednisone I'm sure. His appetite is improved and his energy level as well although his energy/strength is nowhere near what it should be.

Surely I will get some more info tomorrow and I will post it.


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## beilmorgan (May 23, 2016)

Hi, I was directed to your posting by a good friend on this forum who knows I have a little personal experience with canine lymphoma (LSA). My field-bred yellow lab, Fauna, was diagnosed in August 2008, just a few months shy of her 6th birthday. I did opt for chemotherapy with a board-certified oncologist who is also skilled in adjusting treatment according to individual medical history. We did a very long CHOP/modified-CHOP protocol. I chose to extend her treatment beyond the usual 19-25 weeks based upon her coming out of remission twice. Also her oncologist said in her experience if a a dog is going to come out of remission, it typically happens when IV chemo stops and oral chemo begins in a maintenance period. So I elected to continue IV therapy.

My dog is an unusual case as she is so far out on the statistical curve of survivorship at 7.75 years. No one is more surprised than me, as she went into remission 36 hours after her first treatment, then came out of remission 3 weeks later and was not responding to chemo. Her oncologist and internist were 95% convinced LSA was in her bone marrow and I insisted on a bone marrow aspirate as we were looking at a looming euthanasia decision. Results were weird but showed LSA was NOT in her bone marrow, so chemo was cautiously resumed. And now we are in a position to be dealing with old age issues instead of LSA.

Very simply put, most dogs (and cats) do not have problems with chemo - the therapy goals are for quality of life so they generally don't get sick. Human treatment goals are generally KILL, KILL, KILL so people get sick more often with the more aggressive treatment protocols. Only about 5% of pets get ill enough to need hospitalization during their entire chemo treatment period. Just like with humans, pre- and post-treatment anti-nausea and other preventative drugs can be given to prevent issues.

Dr. Nate Baxter has given you some great health advice. I can give my personal perspective. I have NEVER regretted choosing chemo treatment, even with the statistics of mean survival being 12-13 months. Thank Dog our pets cannot read studies!

As someone else posted, there is a lymphoma dog group on yahoo groups. But I'm happy to say that group is also on Facebook and I invite you to join should you choose chemotherapy ==>https://www.facebook.com/groups/LymphomaHeartDogs 

Feel free to contact me with any questions. Best wishes in your journey. --Kathy


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

beilmorgan said:


> Hi, I was directed to your posting by a good friend on this forum who knows I have a little personal experience with canine lymphoma (LSA). My field-bred yellow lab, Fauna, was diagnosed in August 2008, just a few months shy of her 6th birthday. I did opt for chemotherapy with a board-certified oncologist who is also skilled in adjusting treatment according to individual medical history. We did a very long CHOP/modified-CHOP protocol. I chose to extend her treatment beyond the usual 19-25 weeks based upon her coming out of remission twice. Also her oncologist said in her experience if a a dog is going to come out of remission, it typically happens when IV chemo stops and oral chemo begins in a maintenance period. So I elected to continue IV therapy.
> 
> My dog is an unusual case as she is so far out on the statistical curve of survivorship at 7.75 years. No one is more surprised than me, as she went into remission 36 hours after her first treatment, then came out of remission 3 weeks later and was not responding to chemo. Her oncologist and internist were 95% convinced LSA was in her bone marrow and I insisted on a bone marrow aspirate as we were looking at a looming euthanasia decision. Results were weird but showed LSA was NOT in her bone marrow, so chemo was cautiously resumed. And now we are in a position to be dealing with old age issues instead of LSA.
> 
> ...


+1000, see a reputable board certified oncologist asap! The test and treatment are beyond a typical vet at this point. Aspirate a lymph node and send to a good lab (CSU), for a Flow Cytometry Test. You need to know exactly what type of lymphoma in order to treat correctly. It's not good that she's showing symptoms beyond swollen lymph nodes, so time is of the essence.


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

I have to agree with the "time is of the essence" comments. My son's 5 year old Black Lab was diagnosed about 7 years ago. My son was on vacation w/ his family and the person caring for Blaze thought he was off his feed and lethargic because he missed his family. By the time he was diagnosed too much time had been lost and chemo was going to buy him very, very little time if any. Prednisone was a Godsend, but Blaze went downhill fast after the initial boost from the pred. He was a very special dog and my grandson was devastated when he passed.

Hopefully there is something out there that can turn Boomer around. Good luck & Prayers Up.

M


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Thank you everyone, I understand your messages that "time is of the essence" and I can't help but feel like we are fiddling while Rome is burning.

Here is some of the timeline:

Tuesday 5/10 - spleen removed and sent to UGA, he was anemic, if I understood the vet correctly yesterday there was nothing in his blood at this time to indicate lymphoma.

Thursday 5/19 - vet calls and says that UGA tested for the types of cancer you would expect in the spleen when there are no other symptoms (nothing in the lymph nodes, etc.) and it came back negative. Still there was something unusual about the spleen (I know they said it was very large) so UGA asked to do another "stain" to check for lymphoma. We still don't have those results.

Friday 5/20 - I took him in to get stitches removed that were put in at the emergency vet when he started bleeding after surgery (they were keeping him there overnight after surgery for observation, IV, etc.). I told the surgeon that I didn't think he was bouncing back like he should and she drew blood. Still anemic, no change from date of surgery. She pulled more blood to send off so she could see whether he was regenerating red blood cells. She said she would normally get results in 1 day but the lab had notified them that they were backed up. His weight has been 89-90 lbs. and he was down about 5 lbs. since the day of surgery (weight before surgery). I don't know what a spleen weighs and they said his spleen was extremely large.

Saturday 5/21 - Surgeon calls and tells me that the blood work is not complete but she was able to log in and see some partial results and there was something in the blood (starts with Lymp) that was through the roof. At this point she would be extremely surprised if it is not Lymphoma. She calls in a prescription for Prednisone at the local pharmacy.

Monday 5/23 - he seems quite a bit better from the Prednisone but nowhere near normal. Appetite is improved. I called the vet in the afternoon. His surgeon was not working yesterday, but one of the other vets familiar with the case talked to me and said no new results had come in.

Tuesday 5/24 - I called and told a lady in the front office who I've known for 30 years how frustrated I am and that I need to find out if any results have come in and I want to talk to the surgeon about a referral to a board certified oncologist (I assume you need a referral). She put me on hold and checked the surgeon's desk for new results - nothing. She went and spoke to the surgeon who had just gone into surgery. She said as soon as she got out of surgery she was going to call UGA to see about that last "stain."

It would be so much better if I knew more about what we are dealing with and especially if we had a plan on how to proceed.

Nate B. and John Robinson have reached out via PM and I appreciate that very much.


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## oneshotlu (Mar 12, 2014)

I know your frustration. It took me a month to figure out that my dog had lymphoma and during that time it was just getting worse and worse. Not to mention, they put him on prednisone before we realized he had lymphoma because they were treating what they thought was a bacterial infection. So, little did we know, we were reducing the effectiveness of pred when we would actually need it. Not anyone's fault, but I wish I would have gotten the ultra sound when it was first suggested. Lesson learned. I hope you get answers quickly, it's such a terrible feeling. 



HuntinDawg said:


> Thank you everyone, I understand your messages that "time is of the essence" and I can't help but feel like we are fiddling while Rome is burning.
> 
> Here is some of the timeline:
> 
> ...


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Just talked to my vet who was talking to pathologist at UGA.

Said it is either Stage 5 lymphoma (6 months with Chemo), acute lymphoid leukemia (4 months with Chemo) or acute monocytic leukemia which does not respond well to chemo.

Referred him to UGA where they estimated (might be high, was not the pathology department) $2500 just to diagnose and establish a protocol. I don't know whether to go forward or not as the prognoses are all so poor.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

I know we all feel your pain. You are at the point where you need to focus on the dog's quality of life--whether that is a few days or weeks or months. I have never put a dog through chemo but I have had several friends with Goldens that had lymphoma--the chemo seemed to make the dogs sick from the side-effects and the time gained was not quality. Others here have relayed their stories as well. You will have to think long and hard about what is best for your dog.

Best wishes,

Meredith


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

There is no right answer. I feel every bit of your pain. All I can suggest is use the pred to make him feel better, do all the things he loves, and make that last call when he doesn't lift his head at your voice.


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

HuntinDawg, my heart goes out to you and Boomer. Please know you're both in my prayers.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Sorry... Not news you wanted to hear ...... Enjoy your time with this guy, let him do whatever and eat whatever he wants...... Not going to be an easy bit of time for you , I'm really sorry.. We all understand


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## bshaf (Apr 29, 2015)

These threads are absolutely heartbreaking and some of the toughest decisions of our lives will involve these dogs we love so much. No matter what you decide, part of you will feel you're wrong, just know your doing what is best by your pup. I wish you and boomer the best in this terrible situation.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Thanks everyone. I'm at the specialist now... waiting for the estimate on the tests they want to do. He has a different opinion than the one the pathologist gave my vet yesterday and different likely survival times for a couple of the same diagnoses. He said he expected Boomer to look much worse based on the records from my vet. Talking about chest ultrasound, bone marrow aspirate and flow syntometry (sp?).


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## Oz1 (Dec 9, 2011)

Hey Dawg,
I've been following and praying for old Boomer. I'm still hoping for the best. Boomer is lucky to have you caring so much for him. Good luck! Oz


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## beilmorgan (May 23, 2016)

By specialist, I'd assume board-certified oncologist (they are board-certified internists first) or internist who does a lot of oncology. A consult with one is always helpful in laying out all options and the pros/cons of each. You are the only one who can make the best decision for your dog and your personal situation. Best wishes. --Kathy


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Thanks again everyone.

The oncologist disagreed somewhat with the possible diagnoses and he had a much more optimistic outlook for two of them. I told him not to sugar coat it, so I sure hope he was not pumping sunshine.

I have agreed to let them do the following tomorrow:

Chest ultrasound (looking for masses and enlarged lymph nodes)
Bone Marrow Aspirate
Flow Cytometry

I am an analyzer. I simply cannot make a decision with so little information. I could not get any peace with going ahead and deciding to just make him comfortable as long as possible. That may be the ultimate decision, but I will have more info when I make it.

Boomer had a pretty good day today. He retrieved a few bumpers for the first time in about 17 days (had to "keep him quiet" for 2 weeks after surgery). Boy did he come to life when he saw that bumper. He charmed all of the vet tech ladies at Georgia Veterinary Specialists, something at which he is very accomplished. He is alert and bright eyed.

The oncologist had reviewed the records from our vet prior to entering the exam room and he said he was not expecting to see a dog who looked as good as Boomer looked today (he doesn't look as good as he normally does). I'm not quite sure what to make of that, but I guess I'll take it for now.

Because cancer loves carbohydrates I began changing Boomer over to a grain free 32% protein food.

Thanks again everyone. We may argue sometimes, but when the chips are down RTF'ers are the best.


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## element (Aug 7, 2011)

Hi, unfortunately I don't have have a good story but I can share anyways...

Two months ago our Golden was diagnosed with T Cell Lymphoma - Staged at a 3b by the oncologist. She had suddenly stopped eating and initial blood tests indicated high calcium levels. The further tests/ultra sounds confirmed the diagnosis. We chose not to go the chemo route as the oncologist noted the T Cell was difficult to treat. They gave her 1-2 months on prednisone. It was exactly two months last week since the diagnosis and we had to put her down on Thursday evening. 

She lived a very good two months and always seemed comfortable which was our primary goal. We continued to throw marks for her but took away the pressure and made it fun for her. We had big plans to finish off her Grand Master title this summer and sadly those dreams were quickly wiped out. She was an amazing pup...likely we will never get another golden like her again. She was only five years old but brought us on a incredible journey with memories we will cherish forever. 

I feel your pain going through this process as I was in the same place two months ago... know you're not alone. All the best to you and your pup!


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

element said:


> Hi, unfortunately I don't have have a good story but I can share anyways...
> 
> Two months ago our Golden was diagnosed with T Cell Lymphoma - Staged at a 3b by the oncologist. She had suddenly stopped eating and initial blood tests indicated high calcium levels. The further tests/ultra sounds confirmed the diagnosis. We chose not to go the chemo route as the oncologist noted the T Cell was difficult to treat. They gave her 1-2 months on prednisone. It was exactly two months last week since the diagnosis and we had to put her down on Thursday evening.
> 
> ...


Dang, I'm really sorry for your loss. Cancer is a four letter word.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Dawg, you are in good hands now and I'm confident your oncologist get to the bottom of this. You and I have spoken a few times, so you know my story, but all of our stories are just anecdotal, your dog, your oncologist and the results of the flow cytometry are all that matters now.

Personally my dog has responded well to chemotherapy, but we both know it's expensive and that each dog is different in how long after treatment they stay in remission. The thing I didn't realize is that most dogs go into remission the day after the first treatment, so for the length of the CHOP protocol the dog doesn't know he's sick. In my case the extra time bought was worth it regardless how long he will last after his last treatment. Having health insurance made our decision much easier.


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## oneshotlu (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear this. I know for me, it gave me some comfort knowing that I wasn't alone and so many others had been through the same thing. I was so devastated at first because I was under this belief that my dog was so healthy and would live until he was 16, but I took a couple days to grieve and then was told to have as much fun as I could with him and leave the grieving for after he's gone. That was the best advice I've ever heard. In a way, this has been a blessing from God because I have been granted the opportunity to say a proper goodbye. We have taken him to do all of his favorite things and I don't take any moment I have with him for granted. Just make these last days with him as happy and stress free as possible. If you do go with chemo as I did, there are things you can do in addition to treatment.. I give Moose cod liver oil, Pet-Tinic liquid to help replenish red blood cells, canned pumpkin to help settle his stomach etc... Feel free to PM or call me if you have any questions at all.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

oneshotlu said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this. I know for me, it gave me some comfort knowing that I wasn't alone and so many others had been through the same thing. I was so devastated at first because I was under this belief that my dog was so healthy and would live until he was 16, but I took a couple days to grieve and then was told to have as much fun as I could with him and leave the grieving for after he's gone. That was the best advice I've ever heard. In a way, this has been a blessing from God because I have been granted the opportunity to say a proper goodbye. We have taken him to do all of his favorite things and I don't take any moment I have with him for granted. Just make these last days with him as happy and stress free as possible. If you do go with chemo as I did, there are things you can do in addition to treatment.. I give Moose cod liver oil, Pet-Tinic liquid to help replenish red blood cells, canned pumpkin to help settle his stomach etc... Feel free to PM or call me if you have any questions at all.


Thank you. I may PM you once we get down to brass tacks. They just called me and told me he is waking up from his bone marrow aspiration and I can come pick him up in about an hour.


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## oneshotlu (Mar 12, 2014)

Absolutely. Good luck and let us know how it all goes. 



HuntinDawg said:


> Thank you. I may PM you once we get down to brass tacks. They just called me and told me he is waking up from his bone marrow aspiration and I can come pick him up in about an hour.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

He is home resting now.

His chest radiographs were "unremarkable."
The vet would normally expect the results of the bone marrow aspiration today but they aren't sure of what impact Memorial Day will have on the lab, so I may not hear anything on that until Tuesday.
The flow cytometry usually takes about a week.
They gave him a shot of elspar. The oncologist said something to the affect that it keeps cancer cells from multiplying and sometimes even "pushes it back" short term. He said this would hopefully keep things from worsening while we wait for results.
He also increased Boomer from 20mg Prednisone every 12 hours (prescribed by my regular vet) to 80mg Prednisone every 24 hours for 7 days, then down to 60 mg for 7 days, etc.

The fact that they still have not found any unusual lymph nodes has me thinking that it must be Leukemia and I'm anticipating bad news on the bone marrow aspiration.

I got down in the floor with him this morning and when I put my hand on his shoulder I was startled to feel so much bone. I can feel the upper leg bone all the way from elbow to shoulder. Normally this is covered by heavy muscle. He has lost so much muscle mass. When I felt that and realized again what this disease is doing to my big, strong, sweet, beautiful boy it made me nauseous. If it was a person hurting my dog like this I would strangle them to death...


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## daveindenton (Nov 5, 2015)

Really sorry, Dawg. I know that's hard to watch. Hoping for good news. -Dave


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## Guest (May 27, 2016)

Im so sorry. Its hard to watch them disappear before your eyes. Bear went down hill really fast he was so hungry yet lost tons of weight & muscle everyday he could blow away in a windstorm and he was such a strong dog. Prayers are sent to you all.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

*So You're Saying There's a Chance?*

After about 5:30 pm I figured I wasn't going to hear anything today. About 7:30 I got a call from the oncologist. This won't be a firm diagnosis until we get the Flow Cytometry back which they said is normally a week (plus it is Memorial Day weekend). The results of the bone marrow aspiration are apparently somewhat in conflict with the previous blood test. He said the results of the bone marrow aspiration indicate Chronic Lymphocytic (sp?) Leukemia and the prognosis for that is comparatively good. He stressed that he is only cautiously optimistic apparently because of the contradiction with the blood work. He said this is good news unless it started as CLL and is morphing (my word not his, forgot his word) into what the blood indicated, which would be bad. That is my layman's understanding of what he told me. I told him about the weight loss and that I've already increased his food intake from 3 to 4 cups per day and he said keep slowly increasing the intake until he starts putting it back on.

I am so grateful that this man stayed at work until 7:30 on the Friday of Memorial Day weekend to give me this glimmer of hope (and also to keep me from twisting in the wind even if was bad news). He said there was no way he could go home without giving me this news. Maybe I'll sleep a LITTLE better tonight.

Y'all have a great Memorial Day. I'll post any changes or more info.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Wow Dawg, we're all on a roller coaster with you on this. Like everybody, I'm praying for the best possible outcome. Good luck and hang in there.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

John Robinson said:


> Wow Dawg, we're all on a roller coaster with you on this. Like everybody, I'm praying for the best possible outcome. Good luck and hang in there.


Thanks for everything friend.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Every dog person feels your pain. Every dog person is hoping, as hard as one can hope...for good news.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

We're all hoping along with you. Hopefully the bone marrow is the best indicator and it's not changing.


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## championretrievers (Feb 7, 2008)

Good luck to you and Boomer. Praying for a good diagnosis that is treatable.


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## beilmorgan (May 23, 2016)

Dawg, look up canine/dog cancer cachexia. When my lymphoma (LSA) dog started losing weight, it looked like typical summer weight loss, so I increased daily calories from ~1100 to ~1200 (62# slim-build yellow lab). Then her lymph nodes blew up overnight, so we were pretty sure. In the first 3 months of her LSA diagnosis, she was eating 3600 kcal/day to MAINTAIN body weight. Then 2400 kcal/day for 2-3 months, then back to 1100-1200 daily. Previous to LSA, she'd been on a 30/20 Premium Performance Diet. 

Thanks to Dr Eric Altom, I was able to get her on a commercial diet that followed the "cancer principles" of high protein/high fat/low carbohydrates and have kept it that way since her diagnosis in 2008. Best wishes.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

beilmorgan said:


> Dawg, look up canine/dog cancer cachexia. When my lymphoma (LSA) dog started losing weight, it looked like typical summer weight loss, so I increased daily calories from ~1100 to ~1200 (62# slim-build yellow lab). Then her lymph nodes blew up overnight, so we were pretty sure. In the first 3 months of her LSA diagnosis, she was eating 3600 kcal/day to MAINTAIN body weight. Then 2400 kcal/day for 2-3 months, then back to 1100-1200 daily. Previous to LSA, she'd been on a 30/20 Premium Performance Diet.
> 
> Thanks to Dr Eric Altom, I was able to get her on a commercial diet that followed the "cancer principles" of high protein/high fat/low carbohydrates and have kept it that way since her diagnosis in 2008. Best wishes.


. 
It may be helpful to OP if you tell him a bit about who Eric Altom is etc.. Tks


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2016)

is there an update?


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

I just heard from the oncologist a couple of hours ago. I was driving, so I was not able to write anything down. The results of the Flow Cytometry are back and he also spoke to a doctor where the test was performed. Basically they aren't sure what is going on exactly IMO. He said that (my paraphrase) most of the cells were consistent with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia but there are some other cells that causes concern that it might be trying to undergo a "blast crisis." In extremely simplified terms, that would be the process of changing from a chronic leukemia to an acute leukemia which would be very bad. He said if that is happening then he probably won't last a month before we decide to put him down. He prescribed Leukeran but it is coming from Arizona. I asked if it was trying to turn acute, is it possible that the drug could prevent it and he seemed to think it COULD, possibly (I guess depending on how far along the "blast crisis" is when he begins the drug). The drug is not expensive at all. I paid for next day air shipment.

Boomer is up to 6 cups of 32% protein food per day, whereas he was normally getting 3 cups of 30% protein food. Today was the first day that I thought that the weight loss trend may have been reversed. He looks a little thicker today between the back of his ribcage and in front of his hips. The loss of muscle mass in his back legs and shoulders is still huge and you can still feel his spine way too much from hips to shoulder blades. We took him swimming today and he enjoyed it although he did not swim very fast and only jumped in once, instead preferring to ease in. It was in my fathers pool so I could jump in and help him if he had any problems. I'm afraid to let him swim anywhere that I could not reach him quickly in case he started struggling.

I haven't been worrying too much since I spoke to the oncologist Friday evening, but now the stress is ramping up again. Regardless of what happens, I know I will have more peace than if I had just decided to make him comfortable without running these additional tests. I'm not a wealthy man, but $1,700 in tests is cheap peace of mind in this case.

Assuming Boomer does not go into a rapid decline, they protocol is for the doctor to see him once a month for blood tests, etc. He said if he sees Boomer in a month he (the oncologist) will begin to feel a little better. If the lymphocytes in his blood have come down at that time, he (the oncologist) will begin to feel even better.

I want to thank everyone again for their concern, advice, encouragement, prayers, etc.

I will update as there is news.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Sounds like a rocky road you and Boomer are on. I'm with you-the tests were worth their weight in gold to give you more information and options. Sure hoping the overnighted rx will help stop it in its tracks and give him and you more quality time together.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2016)

Thanks for the update... thinking about you guys..prayers sent


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Huntindawg, no matter what the outcome, Boomer is one more blessed boy to have you by his side. We'll keep praying for both of you.
God Bless You, Becky


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## Sue H (Nov 22, 2012)

I have been, and am, in the unfortunate situation you describe. When I had dogs who were 12 or over when diagnosed, I opted not to do chemo and just did supportive treatment - prednisone, whatever. I now have an 8 year old, diagnosed with T cell lymphoma, and am doing the chemo. They said without it, she would live 4-8 weeks, and with it, probably about a year, perhaps more. She had one week when she was really sick, but they adjusted the dose of chemo and now she feels fine, is active and eating well. Dogs do tolerate the chemo better than people, possibly because the dose is less for dogs.

I must caution that the chemo is really expensive and it is continued for several months. If you do decide to go that route, I would suggest a veterinary specialty clinic, where the care would be supervised by an oncologist. Perhaps also a veterinary internal medicine specialist could help you decide.

I understand what you are going through. My criteria was always quality of life - if the treatment proves worse than the disease, it is not worth doing.

Prayers for you and your dog. There is no one right answer, and you will find the one that works for you. Please keep us posted.


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## Bug (Feb 6, 2005)

Dawg, I know your pain. My prayers are with you. Your decision is your own (with the guidance of the one we pray to) and is the best one for you and your buddy.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Sue H said:


> I must caution that the chemo is really expensive and it is continued for several months. If you do decide to go that route, I would suggest a veterinary specialty clinic, where the care would be supervised by an oncologist. Perhaps also a veterinary internal medicine specialist could help you decide.


This drug is oddly inexpensive. The original emergency splenectomy in which I also allowed them to neuter him (because his prostate was very large and they thought the prognosis was good) was about $2,500. The care that night in the after hours emergency clinic where he received IV's and a few more stitches was over $400. The bone marrow aspiration, flow cytometry and elspar injection was a little over $1,700. So I'm at about $4,700 total right now, but the first $3K was an emergency where it was believed that there was a better than 50% chance that would be all he needed. Again, this oral drug is pretty cheap. If Boomer doesn't have a "blast crisis" then I'll be seeing the oncologist once a month for blood work which appears to be the biggest ongoing expense. We are going to a specialty clinic, Georgia Veterinary Specialists. Our regular vet is a pretty high tech practice but they have referred patients to GVS for many years when dogs need tests they are unable to run or expertise that they do not possess. I have seen GVS in the past with Boomer's sire and the outcome was not good but I don't know that there was anything that could have been done better. That was in 2005. This time around I have been very pleased with the oncologist, the communication from the oncologist and his staff, etc. I'm pretty content with what has been done. I do wish I had taken him to GVS sooner but I had no idea that the results of the tests run and sent off by my regular vet would be so slow and inconclusive. As far as I know, we still do not have the results of the second "stain" from his spleen and that was to be done 2 weeks ago today. I'm pretty unhappy with the UGA vet hospital and I'm a UGA grad.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

We started the Leukeran this morning (20 mg) which will continue once every two weeks. The Prednisone was reduced to 40 mg today and will continue for one week. After that we go to 20 mg. ever other day. I'm not clear on whether that continues indefinitely or not and have sent an e-mail to find out about that.

Now I guess we just wait to see if he begins to gradually become stronger or whether he is indeed having a "blast crisis" in which case things will begin to go very poorly sometime soon. I am pretty confident that I've done what I could do so now we just take it day by day.

In the last few days he has seemed more engaged in things going on around the house and I believe the weight loss has stopped or possibly even been somewhat reversed for the time being (at twice his normal volume of food). He still doesn't want to play with any of his toys or to rough house with me but he does enjoy retrieving a few bumpers and getting some attention. He is eating voraciously but we know that could easily just be the Prednisone and not an indicator of health. He was on 80 mg of Prednisone until yesterday when he went to 60 mg. and then 40 mg today.


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

HuntinDawg said:


> We started the Leukeran this morning (20 mg) which will continue once every two weeks. The Prednisone was reduced to 40 mg today and will continue for one week. After that we go to 20 mg. ever other day. I'm not clear on whether that continues indefinitely or not and have sent an e-mail to find out about that.
> 
> Now I guess we just wait to see if he begins to gradually become stronger or whether he is indeed having a "blast crisis" in which case things will begin to go very poorly sometime soon. I am pretty confident that I've done what I could do so now we just take it day by day.
> 
> In the last few days he has seemed more engaged in things going on around the house and I believe the weight loss has stopped or possibly even been somewhat reversed for the time being (at twice his normal volume of food). He still doesn't want to play with any of his toys or to rough house with me but he does enjoy retrieving a few bumpers and getting some attention. He is eating voraciously but we know that could easily just be the Prednisone and not an indicator of health. He was on 80 mg of Prednisone until yesterday when he went to 60 mg. and then 40 mg today.


Good luck & I hope there is an upside coming soon. Just went through a health scare w/ my almost 11 year old Golden. You fight the good fight and hope they have a lot of quality years left. I wonder if they know what a gift they are to us, but I'd like to think so.

Again-Good Luck!!!

M


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Dawg, you've done everything and beyond for Boomer. This as been one of the rare threads where you received lots of knowledgable, good advise. Lymphoma- luekemia diagnosis are sometimes hard to pin down exactly, that's why I advise a flow Cytometry test asap, that will at least get you in the right neighborhood. 

Now we hope and pray it's not a blast crisis. Regarding the prednisone, I think they will wean him off it completely, it just takes time, you can't cut it off cold turkey. Good luck and if you want to talk, you have my number.


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## Montview (Dec 20, 2007)

I have had multiple patients do great on chemo for lymphoma, depending on the stage and type. I am actually even treating my own personal 17 year old cat for low-grade intestinal lymphoma diagnosed by my internist boss last Thanksgiving while we were out of town (biopsies done with endoscopy) but his only requires prednisolone every evening (along with his meds for hyperthyroidism) and a "chemo" pill (chlorambucil- the same Leukeran that you are giving, only a much smaller dose... mine is ordered from Diamondback compounding pharmacy in AZ) every 3rd day. He's doing great. 

A registered vet tech friend of mine had her own border collie mix treated for lymphoma with chemo at age 7, and she lost him to a possible brain tumor at almost age 15... more than 7 years of remission after one course of chemo. He did great, and the brain tumor was likely not lymphoma. Dogs don't tend to react with nearly the same negative effects from chemo (hair loss, etc) as people do.

There is no treatment or decision that is correct for every dog/cat/person. Every one and every case is an individual... whatever you choose to do will be what you feel deep down is the right choice for YOUR dog. And I have no doubt that he will be so thankful to you for your decision, knowing him like you do, regardless of what that decision is. Chemo isn't for everyone.


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## beilmorgan (May 23, 2016)

Dr Eric Altom is a certified animal nutritionist who is also an expert in nutrition for the canine athlete. He was also the senior nutritionist for Eukanuba diets. I believe he is still a field trial judge. LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/*eric-altom-6ba9b118 *


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## action7phil (Jun 6, 2016)

Prayers coming your way!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2016)

How is your dog doing?


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

gmhr1 said:


> How is your dog doing?


Sorry for the delay in responding. I haven't been around the computer much for a few days.

I'm still cautiously optimistic. Outwardly he seems somewhat better. I don't know what he weighs, but he has clearly gained some weight back. His hips, legs, and shoulders are all still way too thin and I don't think they have improved, but his back bone is not protruding like it was before. It was about 16-17 days ago that the oncologist told me that if he was going into a blast crisis he would not last a month. Every day I look for signs of another precipitous decline and I don't see it. He went swimming twice this week. I was there the first time but not the second (yesterday). My wife said he was much more energetic yesterday than earlier in the week...don't know if he was just having a good day or what.

I'm very aware that nothing that I'm seeing on the outside necessarily means that something might not be about to reach critical mass, but based on what I see I am optimistic about him making the 1 month mark from the diagnosis at which point he will have a check up with the oncologist and some blood work to hopefully see that he is definitely improving.

He had his 2nd chemo pill today (one every two weeks) and he has been pretty lethargic. It could be the chemo or a result of the swimming and running yesterday, probably some of each. His appetite remains excellent even though he is down to just 20 mg. of Prednisone every other day.

Thanks for asking. If there is anything to update before his appointment on July 1, I will post it. Hopefully there will be nothing to report because improvement will likely be slow, but decline could apparently be rapid.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

I know the agony of the wait to see. 
Hopefully, he will continue to improve! 

Cautiously optimistic is good!


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Hang in there!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2016)

We just lost our schnauzer a month after being diagnosed, he went downhill very fast, He lost 4 lbs in a month. You could feel ever bone in his body yet he ate alike a pig. Did everything we could finally had to say GoodBye. Prayers are sent for you and your big guy!


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Boomer has been doing pretty well except that he is having some kind of neurological issue. His left eye won't blink or close, his left ear does not move, he is drooling from the left side of his mouth and even when he is sniffing you can see that his right nostril flares but the left one does not. His left eye moves and the 3rd eyelid moves but the upper and lower eyelids on the left do not move. I described all of this to them and they think it is like Bell's Palsy and that he should recover in time. I'm putting artificial tears in his left eye every 4-6 hours to keep it from drying out.

I took him in for his one month appointment with the oncologist today. His blood work is COMPLETELY NORMAL. His Lymphocytes which had been over 300,000 are now at 1,900, which is normal. His red and white blood counts are normal (he was anemic previously).

He has regained all of his weight plus a little but you cannot tell that he has regained any muscle mass. Basically he is fat and not strong but that is better than what he was like at the low point.

The oncologist said this (blood work) was better than he had hoped for so soon. He said he would have been happy if the Lymphocytes were just down to 50,000 at this point.

Boomer is to continue to get the Leukeran once every two weeks and 20mg. prednisone every other day. I'm to bring him back for blood work again in one month. He will remain on Leukeran for as long as it works. This is a chronic disease that will have to be managed for the rest of his life. At some point if things continue to go well we will go to checking the blood work every 3 months instead of every month.

He said it is going to be a slow process to put that muscle back on.

Thank you everyone for all of your interest, concern, prayers, advice, etc. I guess I've got to focus on easy exercise to help him regain his strength now. I doubt he will ever regain all of his strength but hopefully he can regain a good bit of it.

Thanks again everyone.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2016)

Bear had that happen he woke up one day his eye was shut one side of his face was drooping down and that ear flap was all swollen up. The vet didn't know what caused it and it was better in a couple days, he only had it happen once but he did drool all the time Glad your dog is doing better... keep us posted


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## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

Idiopathic facial paralysis. Similar to Bell's palsy in people. Hopefully will resolve. Put artificial tear ointment in the eye several times a day as he cannot blink and spread his tear film.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

NateB said:


> Idiopathic facial paralysis. Similar to Bell's palsy in people. Hopefully will resolve. Put artificial tear ointment in the eye several times a day as he cannot blink and spread his tear film.


Yes, I've been giving him artificial tears every 4-6 hours. He still cannot blink but there seems to be more movement of the eyelids. Sometimes when he is sleeping or resting I see that the eye is almost closed but I never see it happen...seems like it can only happen with a gradual relaxing of the muscles, not quickly if that makes sense.

Did you see the part of the post about his blood values being NORMAL? He seems to be regaining some energy as well although I cannot see that he has regained any muscle mass. Wife and kids took him swimming in my dad's pool yesterday while I was mowing the yard. They said he seems stronger than he has been and they think he was swimming faster...he's been swimming really slowly.


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## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

HuntinDawg said:


> Did you see the part of the post about his blood values being NORMAL? He seems to be regaining some energy as well although I cannot see that he has regained any muscle mass. Wife and kids took him swimming in my dad's pool yesterday while I was mowing the yard. They said he seems stronger than he has been and they think he was swimming faster...he's been swimming really slowly.


I did see that, good news blood tessera normal, and he is regaining some energy.


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## oneshotlu (Mar 12, 2014)

Glad to hear your pup is feeling a little better. My JRT did the same thing, ate like a pig but never fully regained his muscle. We just had to put him to sleep 2 weeks ago after the 3 month battle, not an easy thing watching them go downhill like that. I am keeping you in my prayers.


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