# Ammo



## Clay Warren (Nov 3, 2009)

Anyone heard if she has jumped into the AA circuit yet this year? I know Bill and Micki post on here and was interested to see if she has ran any trials yet!


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

No she has not run since she aged out of the derby and ran the one Amateur.

WRL


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

Montana trials start up in a month or so. Maybe they're waiting for those?


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

Don't think Ammo will run unless someone else handles her.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0410.pdf

Tim


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2010)

TimThurby said:


> Don't think Ammo will run unless someone else handles her.
> 
> http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0410.pdf
> 
> Tim


Thanks Tim. I was about to ask if anyone knew what was going on with this...


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

TimThurby said:


> Don't think Ammo will run unless someone else handles her.
> 
> http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0410.pdf
> 
> Tim


I don't believe anyone else is allowed to handle her. Usually, no "paperwork" will be processed during this time frame.

WRL


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

WRL said:


> I don't believe anyone else is allowed to handle her. Usually, no "paperwork" will be processed during this time frame.
> 
> WRL


I don't know anything about the fine details on that. Guess I would if it involved me and/or my dog. Didn't know anything until AKC sent out the monthly minutes via email.

Tim


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Wow, very interesting, wonder what is up???


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## Dogman50 (Jun 11, 2006)

The dog is NOT suspended , the person is suspended .


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Dogman50 said:


> The dog is NOT suspended , the person is suspended .


Under most suspensions (and there are no details so I don't know in this circumstance), NO PAPERWORK will be processed with the suspended individuals name on it.

Therefore, it usually does not allow dogs owned by the individual to be sold, bred or competed with.

If you have more information, then feel free to post up.

WRL


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

Wow! What gives???




Richard


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## LavenderLabs (Aug 28, 2005)

Wow, I'm curious to...


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

What seems odd to me is that AKC does not state how long the suspension will be and there is no way to know when suspension began or when it will end. It just states all AKC privileges are suspended. 

The wording indicates that the decision could be appealed, but it does not state that the suspension is under appeal. Perhaps it is. We can only hope so -- for Ammo's sake and for her owner's sake. 

All we can surmise is, Ammo won't be running trials any time soon as long as she is owned by her current owner. I don't know at this point if her owner can sell her to change her ownership. 

Is selling a dog or transferring ownership of an AKC registered dog considered an AKC privilege? 

Based on the AKC notice, as it stands now, Ammo is not eligible to be entered in AKC licensed events. If she were bred while her owner was suspended, her puppies would not be eligible for AKC registration. 

Being suspended from all AKC privileges is a serious consequence to pay. It does not matter who you are or what famous dog or dogs you own. 

Hearken, all.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2010)

Some people need to learn to behave themselves.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Melanie Foster said:


> Some people need to learn to behave themselves.


I'm hoping that was meant in humor. If not, I would say call Bill P. and ask him what happened. 

As the only witness that day, I can tell you this whole thing is BS and the accuser and club should be ashamed to look in the mirror. However from what I have seen from some of those involved, they have no shame or integrity.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

helencalif said:


> What seems odd to me is that AKC does not state how long the suspension will be and there is no way to know when suspension began or when it will end. It just states all AKC privileges are suspended.
> 
> The wording indicates that the decision could be appealed, but it does not state that the suspension is under appeal. Perhaps it is. We can only hope so -- for Ammo's sake and for her owner's sake.


Helen,

It has been a while since I received the Gazette. But, the length of the suspension will probably be posted once the period for appeal is up. I know length of suspensions are printed.

Tom


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

huntinman said:


> I'm hoping that was meant in humor. If not, I would say call Bill P. and ask him what happened.
> 
> As the only witness that day, I can tell you this whole thing is BS and the accuser and club should be ashamed to look in the mirror. However from what I have seen from some of those involved, they have no shame or integrity.


 
So as the only witness present that day, Im sure you could set the record straight. 

Are you saying the folks of the retriever club are out to get Bill P.?


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## DenverB2B (Feb 22, 2009)

This is gonna get good. CEO may have to step in on this one.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

MikeBoley said:


> So as the only witness present that day, Im sure you could set the record straight.
> 
> Are you saying the folks of the retriever club are out to get Bill P.?


I'm saying if you want to set the record straight, call Bill P. I testified at the hearing and a re-hearing and was basically called a liar.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Scott, Bill's phone # is available. Why don't you call him and ask him about it? I just posted about my involvement.


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## born2retrieve (Nov 18, 2007)

:snipersmile:


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

huntinman said:


> As the only witness that day, I can tell you this whole thing is BS and the accuser and club should be ashamed to look in the mirror.


Bill,

As the only witness to what transpired, I assume the Field Trial Committee held a meeting on the spot and you gave testimony at that meeting to what you heard and saw so that your eye-witness account was part of their report to AKC. 

Did you also participate in AKC's investigation of what occurred and did you provide some sort of written deposition to AKC as to what you saw and heard?

It seems to me that a deposition from the only witness to what happened would have great bearing. Otherwise, it would be a "he said vs. he said" situation. While the F.T. Committee would still have to file a written report of the incident, how could they make a decision (i.e. take sides and find fault) if it was "he said vs. he said". 

Helen


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> Some people need to learn to behave themselves.


Amen!!! It all starts at the top....

Angie


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

huntinman said:


> \ I testified at the hearing and a re-hearing and was basically called a liar.


Bill,

I was typing my post and did not see that you had posted that you had testified (twice) as to what you saw and heard. 

Helen


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

huntinman said:


> I'm saying if you want to set the record straight, call Bill P. I testified at the hearing and a re-hearing and was basically called a liar.


 
So are you now saying the people of this club are out to get you also? I know the club members in question and if you do not belive they are looking out for the best interest of the sport then your ROSE COLORED glasses need to be cleaned. I have witnessed first hand when the "wonder dog" wasnt able to do the test and the resulting comments by the owners.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

helencalif said:


> Bill,
> 
> As the only witness to what transpired, I assume the Field Trial Committee held a meeting on the spot and you gave testimony at that meeting to what you heard and saw so that your eye-witness account was part of their report to AKC.
> 
> ...


Helen, I wll say the answer to most of your questions is yes. I did all of the above. I'm not going to get into all of the histrioncs on the clubs part. (lets just say that their understanding and compliance with the misconduct procedures was minimal). However, somehow they prevailed. As to your last question...I am still scratching my head over that. Like I said in an earlier post, they had to basically call me a liar and discount my testimony to come to that conclusion. In my 25 years of involvement with the game, I have never seen such a fiasco. I think most that know me from my days of running trials in Alaska and the NW know that I am a pretty straight shooter. I call it the way I see it and did in this case as well.


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## tshuntin (Mar 22, 2003)

Bill, as the witness, would you mind posting your written testimony? That way we could at least get the witness's side of the story. If not, I understand.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

tshuntin said:


> Bill, as the witness, would you mind posting your written testimony? That way we could at least get the witness's side of the story. If not, I understand.


No, I appreciate you asking, but not at this time.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

tshuntin said:


> Bill, as the witness, would you mind posting your written testimony? That way we could at least get the witness's side of the story. If not, I understand.



*BAD IDEA.*...without all the particulars, which in this case probably dont concern any of us,thing can get taken out of context rather quickly

I have no side in this incident as is the case with most on here...let the AKC, Mr.Petrovish and those *directly *involved handle this matter in private and leave all speculation, inuendos, and personal opinions out, since the process is still ongoing


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

MikeBoley said:


> I know the club members in question and if you do not belive they are looking out for the best interest of the sport then your ROSE COLORED glasses need to be cleaned.


Got any glass cleaner?


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2010)

huntinman said:


> I am still scratching my head over that.


I would recommend Selsun Blue.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Melanie Foster said:


> I would recommend Selsun Blue.


I'll give it a shot...


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## rds7015 (May 19, 2006)

Ok folks, I dont have a dog in this fight. So I am confused why this subject is so important. I respect Ammo and her owners. I dont know any of them. I do believe in minding my own business when there is no solution to the subject. I believe Bill, when he said he was an eye witness and told the truth. So AKC saw it one way. Keep in mind, its their way or the highway. After all we play by their rules. Not all in life is fare. True we learn from mistakes. So lets get back to moving forward.

Jim Schaefer


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

I have no idea what happened but, having met Bill, Micki and Ammo, I hope for all their sakes that the matter is cleared up and they are out running again soon.

Good luck,

Rick


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

rds7015 said:


> Ok folks, I dont have a dog in this fight. So I am confused why this subject is so important. I respect Ammo and her owners. I dont know any of them. I do believe in minding my own business when there is no solution to the subject. I believe Bill, when he said he was an eye witness and told the truth. So AKC saw it one way. Keep in mind, its their way or the highway. After all we play by their rules. Not all in life is fare. True we learn from mistakes. So lets get back to moving forward.
> 
> Jim Schaefer


Good post, thanks.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2010)

Melanie Foster said:


> I would recommend Selsun Blue.


Hey it gets kinda dry around here when it starts warming up so not trying to point the finger atcha or anything. Hope it helps.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Melanie Foster said:


> Hey it gets kinda dry around here when it starts warming up so not trying to point the finger atcha or anything. Hope it helps.


I've been wondering what people behind me were whispering about...White shirts from here on out...


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

Bill Dqavis do you have any biase towards Ammo or the owners. Maybe everyone ought to know that you roomed with Bill P. Not exactly a neutral bystander are you?

Ammo's derby accomplishemnts are impressive. She holds the record for most derby points. Now lets see if her and her owners can finish the deal and get her a title.


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## taddy1340 (Sep 2, 2006)

MikeBoley said:


> Bill Dqavis do you have any biase towards Ammo or the owners. Maybe everyone ought to know that you roomed with Bill P. Not exactly a neutral bystander are you?
> 
> Ammo's derby accomplishemnts are impressive. She holds the record for most derby points. Now lets see if her and her owners can finish the deal and get her a title.


By your posts, sounds like your biased as well. Geez....move on with life...


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Regardless of the whole AKC matter when we see Ammo in the next year doesn't really matter. Give the poor dog some time to transition. I wouldn't expect the dog to win this year. It has happened sure but adding all the new concepts is alot of work.


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## LavenderLabs (Aug 28, 2005)

Im way confused, what happened???

I was really excited to hear about ammo this year. I hope they straighten what ever is going on up fast.


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

The way I see it , Ammo and team have LOTS of time to train/transition right now . So when they come back , it will be with bells on !!
If you don't have something nice to say , don't say nothing regards ..........


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

MikeBoley said:


> Bill Dqavis do you have any biase towards Ammo or the owners. Maybe everyone ought to know that you roomed with Bill P. Not exactly a neutral bystander are you?
> 
> Ammo's derby accomplishemnts are impressive. She holds the record for most derby points. Now lets see if her and her owners can finish the deal and get her a title.


Mike, I don't think my friendship with Bill and Micki has ever been a secret. many people on this forum know we were all close way back when in Alaska and are still very good friends today. I can count my list of "very good friends" on one hand. I try to hold on to the ones I have. Is that bad?


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

Not bad at all. 

Im sure if Bill P is innonocent of any wrong doing then it will come out through the appeals process.
I count the Scott as a Friend, is that bad?


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

MikeBoley said:


> Not bad at all.
> 
> Im sure if Bill P is innonocent of any wrong doing then it will come out through the appeals process.
> I count the Scott as a Friend, is that bad?


Have you ever been through or dealt with the appeals process? If not, you may need some cleaner for your Rose Colored glasses. 

Scott who? 

This thread is starting to remind me of that old Jim Croce song about Leroy Brown...the part about spitting into the wind...


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

Im very familiar with the process. Just check the records.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Brother Bill,

If you want to be angry with someone, be angry that AKC forces the event committee to be the attorneys, the judge, and the jury.

And if you think anyone on the committee enjoyed the countless hours involved and being put in a lose/lose situation, you are quite mistaken.

Shayne


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## Vicki Worthington (Jul 9, 2004)

As most of you know, emotions run high at field trials. They run the gamut from downright anger to disappointment to hope to joy--often in a day or two. Almost like a roller-coaster.

Bill and Mickey are VERY nice people. Even VERY nice people have issues from time to time--it's what makes us HUMAN. 

They will deal with their issues with AKC and move on. So should we!


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Geez is there anyway of finding out what this is all about. I am just curious because of all the talk here. Cant help but wonder because I have met the Ammo crew and run against them and cant imagine any wrong doing. Obviously the accusations are public knowledge and a lot of people know about it, why cant we?


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## precisionlabradors (Jun 14, 2006)

MikeBoley said:


> Ammo's derby accomplishemnts are impressive. She holds the record for most derby points. Now lets see if her and her owners can finish the deal and get her a title.


hard to do when akc won't let her compete.

guess she could run hrc and canadian ft's.
________
Fake Weed


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## Lenore (Apr 2, 2010)

What a shame for all involved...


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

precisionlabradors said:


> hard to do when akc won't let her compete.
> 
> guess she could run hrc and canadian ft's.


If you are suspended with AKC you are not allowed to run CKC. Its a reciprocity thing.

WRL


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

rds7015 said:


> Ok folks, I dont have a dog in this fight. So I am confused why this subject is so important. I respect Ammo and her owners. I dont know any of them. I do believe in minding my own business when there is no solution to the subject. I believe Bill, when he said he was an eye witness and told the truth. So AKC saw it one way. Keep in mind, its their way or the highway. After all we play by their rules. Not all in life is fare. True we learn from mistakes. So lets get back to moving forward.
> 
> Jim Schaefer


I'm coming in to this one late after a couple days' worth of business meetings.

This is one of the best posts I've read on RTF in a long time.

I was just saying to a close friend, regarding some specific Field Trial discussion on another completely different topic:

*"We need more nice people."*

Chris


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## Clay Warren (Nov 3, 2009)

Sorry to stir the pot! If I would have known Bill and Ammos predicament I would have kept this topic under wraps so they could sort it out. Sorry to hear about what happened and hope everything comes out ok. Needless to say it is hard to point fingers, guess they will just have to roll with the punches now.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Steve Shaver said:


> Geez is there anyway of finding out what this is all about. I am just curious because of all the talk here. Cant help but wonder because I have met the Ammo crew and run against them and cant imagine any wrong doing. Obviously the accusations are public knowledge and a lot of people know about it, why cant we?


Steve,

You can see who the stakeholders are on both sides of the issue. I'd suggest PM'ing some folks if you want to get some other sides of the "he said/she said" on the whole thing. 

Any public posting of "the true story" from someone's point of view is bound to trigger an opposing point and I predict that the outcome of such exchanges will be highly unproductive. (Kind of an application of the old "if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting" theme. Come to think of it, this is why I try to not repeat marks in training...but that's another story)

The dog and the owners have pretty much had a bit of a bullseye on their backs from shortly after the dog was weaned. We're all human. 

Really, if folks would just try to be kind, none of this would be an issue.

Chris


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

Chris, you are right on here.

We do need more nice people. 

Time heals all wounds, and it's time to let this incident do just that.

I hope Bill comes back to the game and runs Ammo again. I want to see her run and see if I can beat her. If I can't, I certainly won't bad mouth her and I will keep trying.

Let's all be nice and have some friendly competition.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Steve,
> 
> You can see who the stakeholders are on both sides of the issue. I'd suggest PM'ing some folks if you want to get some other sides of the "he said/she said" on the whole thing.
> 
> ...


 



After my post I have had a couple pm's. I wasnt looking for anyones point of view or opinions just what the charges were. Really doesnt matter to me just curious what everybody was talking about. I'm sure AKC will sort it out. Just very unfortunate that this has happened to begin with. Too bad little Ammo has to be caught up in this. We should all try to be more like our dogs


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

huntinman said:


> I'm hoping that was meant in humor. If not, I would say call Bill P. and ask him what happened.
> 
> *As the only witness that day, I can tell you this whole thing is BS and the accuser and club should be ashamed to look in the mirror. However from what I have seen from some of those involved, they have no shame or integrity.*




I think some here have misinterprited my view. I have always acknowledged Ammos accomplishments. I DO take great offense at the above statement. Having seen Bill P's actions after picking his dog up at a derby I can easily see how unsportsmanlike conduct could have been committed. The club having to deal with this has done their due diligence. We dont always agree with the outcomes of a FT Committe meeting. I know have been there and got the T Shirt.


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## Jim Pickering (Sep 17, 2004)

I know better, but I am going to do it anyway.

The title of this thread is “Ammo”. Ammo is an exceptional marking dog as her record indicates. I have little doubt that she will again be seen on the field trial circuit and barring injury will earn the FC and AFC titles.

Right or wrong this thread morphed to be more about Ammo’s owner, but the broader issue is sportsmanship in the game we play. I have only second hand information on what did or did not occur at the Metro Alliance trial last fall so will not comment on that situation specifically. 

I have always found it a paradox that field trial etiquette dictates that one does not talk about poor sportsmanship alleged or actual. There is a considerable span of gray area between obviously good sportsmanship and blatantly poor sportsmanship. Whenever there is an occurrence at a field trial where a formal complaint is filed thereby requiring the FTC to hold a misconduct hearing I have to believe that open discussion of allegations as well as findings would help many of us better understand where the line not to be crossed is located in the gray area. A better understanding where that line is might cause some of us to contemplate the ramifications of our words and/or actions a bit more before speaking or acting.

Anyone who has run more that a few field trials will have disagreed with a judgment call concerning his/her dog. The spectrum of interpretation of the rules is simply too broad for all to agree all of the time. Even with the most conscientious and knowledgeable of judges we will occasionally disagree. With the not so conscientious or knowledgeable judges the difference in opinion can be horrendous. Even in the latter case the dog owner and/or handler is not at liberty to accuse a judge of malfeasance nor to otherwise insult or act rudely toward a judge and expect no repercussion. Maybe a civil discussion at a later date is acceptable or a discussion of the scenario on this forum, but not confrontation.


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## Bailey and Cappy's Mom (Aug 17, 2009)

Steve Shaver said:


> After my post I have had a couple pm's. I wasnt looking for anyones point of view or opinions just what the charges were. Really doesnt matter to me just curious what everybody was talking about. I'm sure AKC will sort it out. Just very unfortunate that this has happened to begin with. Too bad little Ammo has to be caught up in this. We should all try to be more like our dogs




Amen to that!


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## Bayou Magic (Feb 7, 2004)

Bickering among ourselves is the stain on this sport that turns others away. It honestly makes me rethink what I’m doing. I personally know Bill and Micki P and the good folks that were faced with carrying out what they saw as their duty as the FTC. I count all of them as friends, including RTF sparring partners Mike Boley and Bill Davis. 

Ammo may very well never run another field trial. That’s the result and the reality of this entire fiasco. The field trial community is the real loser in all of this. It’s time for everyone move on. 

Bill and Micki, this is just a bump in the road. Don’t let it be anything more. 

Frank Price


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## Son of a Sailor (Aug 25, 2009)

This subject was brought to my attention by a fellow field trialer and good friend. I do not frequent the forum. I felt I need to express my feeling and honesty about this matter and situation.
Ever since the moment this occured, the undue stress has been almost unbearable. I believe honesty, truth and integrity should be first and foremost in the field trial sport. As a club, that hosts events, you are expected to uphold the ethics and rules of the AKC. Our FTC did the best to our individual ability to serve AKC as set out.
Bill and Micki are dear friends and this has weighed heavy on all of our hearts and minds - for months. They have stayed with my family at our facility many times. I regret that this has become a slinging match between ourselves and others. 
Honestly, I have considered and weighed just walking away from a sport that is my passion. Although, it is not about the people - it is about the dogs. I am here, and always have been, to improve the breed and the sport. Again, the real loser here is Ammo, if in fact she does not compete again as she is a extremely special retriever and truly one of a kind. 
Again, we all lose if we do not keep the game straight.
I pray that strength, courage, faith and love will cover and heal Bill Davis. Bill, Micki and Ammo are always in my prayers with hope that our paths and life plan will come together once again.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Bayou Magic said:


> Ammo may very well never run another field trial. That’s the result and the reality of this entire fiasco. The field trial community is the real loser in all of this. It’s time for everyone move on.


When there has been alleged bad behavior before at Field Trials, I have to ponder why some get a slap on the wrist, and others get the guillotine. Admittedly, I was not there, and don't know the actual charges, I am just being philosophical.

For this little dog not to run again would be a loss to the Field Trial community.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Son of a Sailor said:


> This subject was brought to my attention by a fellow field trialer and good friend. I do not frequent the forum. I felt I need to express my feeling and honesty about this matter and situation.
> Ever since the moment this occured, the undue stress has been almost unbearable. I believe honesty, truth and integrity should be first and foremost in the field trial sport. As a club, that hosts events, you are expected to uphold the ethics and rules of the AKC. Our FTC did the best to our individual ability to serve AKC as set out.
> Bill and Micki are dear friends and this has weighed heavy on all of our hearts and minds - for months. They have stayed with my family at our facility many times. I regret that this has become a slinging match between ourselves and others.
> Honestly, I have considered and weighed just walking away from a sport that is my passion. Although, it is not about the people - it is about the dogs. I am here, and always have been, to improve the breed and the sport. Again, the real loser here is Ammo, if in fact she does not compete again as she is a extremely special retriever and truly one of a kind.
> ...


Scott, thanks for your concern, but I don't need to "heal" as I don't feel sick. I did send you a PM.


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## Warren Flynt (Nov 14, 2007)

JusticeDog said:


> When there has been alleged bad behavior before at Field Trials, I have to ponder why some get a slap on the wrist, and others get the guillotine. Admittedly, I was not there, and don't know the actual charges, I am just being philosophical.
> 
> For this little dog not to run again would be a loss to the Field Trial community.


I could not agree more.


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

I am not a field trial authority, as many of you on this board. The losers here are both Bill and Micki and the AKC. Serve out whatever sentence is handed down. Come back Bill and Micki and smoke the competition! I will pray for you to come to a timely compromise.


God Bless,


Richard


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## Pete Marcellus (Oct 2, 2003)

Like Scott, this thread was brought to my attention by another, as I stopped frequenting the forum back in the Guthrie vs Griffith days.

However, since I have been publicly called out for my lack of shame and integrity, I felt compelled to read it and respond. 

Mr. Petrovish was suspended for 2 months and given a $100 dollar fine for verbal abuse(inappropriate, abusive or foul language) directed personally to a judge. Mr. Petrovish was eligible for reinstatement beginning March 28, 2010. All he has to do is apply for reinstatement and pay the fine. 

As for the hearing itself, I cannot get into specifics about what was said during the hearings, that is confidential. I can say that the original report to the AKC contained an error, a witness was called on the phone to clarify some earlier testimony while the accuser and accused were not present. AKC ordered the club to rehold the hearing in the presence of an AKC official. This was done, the testimony was debated by the committee, we voted and the result was the suspension of Mr. Petrovish, upheld by the AKC Staff Event Committee. This was not an easy ordeal for any of us by any means. Those of you who have gone through this process understand, those of you who have not, probably don't. Much like judging, being a committee member and having to deal with a situation such as this is extremely underappreciated by those who have not been there. I had no axe to grind, I knew nothing of Mr. Petrovish but had heard about the astonishing accomplishments of Ammo. I was excited that I was going to be able to watch this dog run. Ammo's marking was incredible, second to none on a BIG DOG test. She did poorly on 2 blinds and was dropped, big deal, just like a lot of other dogs, including FC/AFC's. I was dissappointed in the aftermath of her being dropped.

So there, all of you know the rest of the story, from my view at least.

As for you Mr. Davis, the statement below raises the hair on my neck as well as your statement that you were basically called a liar by the committe (which is a completely false statement):

"As the only witness that day, I can tell you this whole thing is BS and the accuser and club should be ashamed to look in the mirror. However from what I have seen from some of those involved, they have no shame or integrity"

I respect your right to have an opinion and express it. However, I do not respect your right to free speech when it involves publicly painting the club and those involved with the process, which includes me, as having no shame or integrity. I take that as a personal slight. It is comments such as this that got Mr. Petrovish suspended and you are continuing with those types of comments here. These comments have no place in field trials and should NEVER be tolerated and are against the rules. I would have made the same decision if the accused had been Ed Aycock or John Russell, both very good friends of mine, and both people you really don't want to screw with. I believe these comments have no place here either, but that is my opinion, not the rules.

So, Mr. Davis, go on with your bitter view me and the other shameless and dishonest committee members but despite what YOU believe, you DO need to heal. 

Birds of a feather perhaps????????????

Pete Marcellus


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2010)

JusticeDog said:


> For this little dog not to run again would be a loss to the Field Trial community.


But none of this is about the dog.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

I stand by what I said to my friend last week....

We need more nice people.

Chris


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## huntinlabs (Aug 4, 2009)

what is he accused of my computer would not pull up the akc link..


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Pete Marcellus said:


> Like Scott, this thread was brought to my attention by another, as I stopped frequenting the forum back in the Guthrie vs Griffith days.
> 
> However, since I have been publicly called out for my lack of shame and integrity, I felt compelled to read it and respond.
> 
> ...


I only have one question for you Pete. If the only witness did not witness any misconduct and testified to that both times, how did you determine that the accused was guilty?


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## Pete Marcellus (Oct 2, 2003)

If you've been in the game 25 years as you claim, you SHOULD be well aware of the confidentiality of the hearing which precludes me from answering that question.

Pete


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## MikeBoley (Dec 26, 2003)

Bill, let it go. The FT commitee has meet. The testimony has been given. The decision has been given. It didnot turn out your way. The penalties have been given. Take it move on. AS someone who has been there move on.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

huntinlabs said:


> what is he accused of my computer would not pull up the akc link..


 This is what is on the Secretary's page:


*Notice​*_As a result of Event Committee determinations_
_the following individual stands suspended_
_of AKC privileges. It should be noted that this_
_determination may still be appealed and may_
_be reversed. Upon expiration of the appeal_
_process, an appropriate notice describing the_
_status of the individual’s suspension, if any, will_
_appear in this column:_​_Bill Petrovish (Townsend, MT)_


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Pete Marcellus said:


> Mr. Petrovish was suspended for 2 months and given a $100 dollar fine .... Mr. Petrovish was eligible for reinstatement beginning March 28, 2010. All he has to do is apply for reinstatement and pay the fine.


Thanks for the clarification Mr. Marcellus. Seems in this case, Mr. Petrovish may be appealing? or, ??? But it's obvious, he got the typical fine and not the guillotine; and he's choosing not to run the dog at this point in time. I hope he's training her up for more trials, and we see Ammo soon.


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## Alan Sandifer (Oct 17, 2007)

Son of a Sailor said:


> This subject was brought to my attention by a fellow field trialer and good friend. I do not frequent the forum. I felt I need to express my feeling and honesty about this matter and situation.
> Ever since the moment this occured, the undue stress has been almost unbearable. I believe honesty, truth and integrity should be first and foremost in the field trial sport. As a club, that hosts events, you are expected to uphold the ethics and rules of the AKC. Our FTC did the best to our individual ability to serve AKC as set out.
> Bill and Micki are dear friends and this has weighed heavy on all of our hearts and minds - for months. They have stayed with my family at our facility many times. I regret that this has become a slinging match between ourselves and others.
> Honestly, I have considered and weighed just walking away from a sport that is my passion. Although, it is not about the people - it is about the dogs. I am here, and always have been, to improve the breed and the sport. Again, the real loser here is Ammo, if in fact she does not compete again as she is a extremely special retriever and truly one of a kind.
> ...


This one of the best post on the subject , i hope all wounds are healed and we all learn to be more respectful to others .


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Jim Pickering said:


> I know better, but I am going to do it anyway.
> 
> The title of this thread is “Ammo”. Ammo is an exceptional marking dog as her record indicates. I have little doubt that she will again be seen on the field trial circuit and barring injury will earn the FC and AFC titles.
> 
> ...


I agree with Jim

Situations like this do not come up very often and could be educational. 

As to situations like this driving people from the sport.... I can think of a bunch of things in that are in line before this.


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## DKR (May 9, 2003)

I'm typing this from my phone so excuse my grammer. 

I have been sitting in a doctors office this morning long enough to read this entire post. A waste of what will be most of my morning. The reason I did this is because a contractor I work with now requires a drug test before I can enter their job site. So now I have a choice to abide by those rules and continue to do business with them or not. I'll add it'll also cost me a little less than $100.00 to lose the morning and pee in a cup for nothing. 

Do I like this NO. Does it matter, not really, I play by their rules and they do it for the safety of the overall jobsite. 

I have good friends on both sides of this situation. We need to put this behind us. 

I've enjoyed seeing Ammo run in the past, I hope to again someday.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Pete Marcellus said:


> Like Scott, this thread was brought to my attention by another, as I stopped frequenting the forum back in the Guthrie vs Griffith days.


Well Hot Dog.

Since you mention KG I need to give that ole' bird a call. Miss that guy.

And Pete, how the heck are you?

And even Carruth is on here. Say man, crappie bittin'? My little man is just about ready to rip some serious lips.

I don't know Ammo, the owners, or huntindude or whatever his name is so I really don't care about the situation. Although I did want to see the incredible stretching dog.

I just wanted to be a "nice person" and come on here and say hello.

How you doing brother Chris? You see my man Gage getting ready for the Bassmasters Classic?

Well, hope all you dog folks are having fun. Good luck this spring and hope you win some ribbons.

As for me and Dozer, we're headed to Caddo again this week for some crawdads, cold dads, and running boats that tear up stuff.

Love you...bye,

Gut


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Gut , what the heck is happing?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Mark Sehon said:


> Gut , what the heck is happing?


Not much...


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Chris...

Is it ok to Hijack this thread or do you want me to start a fresh one with the pics.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Chris...
> 
> Is it ok to Hijack this thread or do you want me to start a fresh one with the pics.


Blahahahaha,,,,

I didn't realize you hijacked anything????

The dead horse has been beaten as much as it needs to be...

Rock On Ammo!!!!

Love the pics... ;-)

Angie


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken,,, move your water ride to the classifieds... It doesn't belong on the main forum...

You're soooo sneaky...

Angie


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Ken posts pictures of his hunting and fishing escapades, his kid, and his dog but never one of the person who makes it all possible his lovely wife Becky....


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

EdA said:


> Ken posts pictures of his hunting and fishing escapades, his kid, and his dog but never one of the person who makes it all possible his lovely wife Becky....


I totally agree....

Ed,,,, everyone wants to know what the new Mrs. A looks like. 

She's brains, beauty and puts up with you.... An amazing woman....

Post up!

Angie


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

EdA said:


> Ken posts pictures of his hunting and fishing escapades, his kid, and his dog but never one of the person who makes it all possible his lovely wife Becky....


She was in one of the pictures but she was picking weeds from the flower bed.

Didn't think it fit on this thread.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

But I did take her on a date once...

She wanted to go somewhere fancy so I said no problem...


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Thanks, now the world knows, it appears that she is unable to reach around you, does she have short arms, I never noticed that her arms were short....


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

EdA said:


> Thanks, now the world knows, it appears that she is unable to reach around you, does she have short arms, I never noticed that her arms were short....


Can't we just talk about Ammo or something?


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

EdA said:


> Thanks, now the world knows, it appears that she is unable to reach around you, does she have short arms, I never noticed that her arms were short....


Heck Doc I was gonna say now I know why ya'll call him gut. Must say I'm pretty sure ropenal must have been used to secure his bride.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Can't we just talk about Ammo or something?


I'm a dope and laughing....

Ed,,,, does you're better half's wing span wrap around your mid-span???

Post up...

Angie


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

Bout time this thread went somewhere....So short armed bandit or big bellied Gut??? Do tell???



Richard


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Angie B said:


> I'm a dope and laughing....
> 
> Ed,,,, does you're better half's wing span wrap around your mid-span???
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone would ever call Dr. Ed Gut.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Richard Finch said:


> or big bellied Gut??? Do tell???


Like I told Angie long ago...

It's called Cinderella fat.

Cause at midnight...


Writing "I shall be a nice person" on the chalk board 100 times regards,


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

Good answer Brother!!! So turns 2 what at midnight???



Richard


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## DKR (May 9, 2003)

I was going to say pumpkin but....


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Like I told Angie long ago...
> 
> It's called Cinderella fat.
> 
> ...


You make it sound like someone wants to punish you for something. 

Since you want to take some little jabs at my words, let's focus on them for a moment. Don't you agree that if folks were kind this whole nonsense that triggered this thread would not have happened? I'm not placing blame. I wasn't there. I'm just stating that the reason it all happened had to do with mean-spirited stuff. Right?

I'm glad you're enjoying your family dude...that's what's important.

Chris


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> You make it sound like someone wants to punish you for something.
> 
> Since you want to take some little jabs at my words, let's focus on them for a moment. Don't you agree that if folks were kind this whole nonsense that triggered this thread would not have happened? I'm not placing blame. I wasn't there. I'm just stating that the reason it all happened had to do with mean-spirited stuff. Right?
> 
> ...


I agree with you Chris and your point and efforts are surely sincere. 

Along with that I will add that the world often presents a sad reality at times.

It just so happens in retriever games and many involved thrive off drama. If there was none all there would be is good dogs and their accomplisments. Unfortunately that is not enough. It's not about the dogs for many. 

Like your search for kindness, I searched for the possibilty of it being "all about the dogs" long ago. I actually think they go hand in hand. Sadly, the game rarely recognizes either without distraction. 

Honestly, there was no harm in my words similar to yours. I really was trying to be kind and take the thread a different direction to deflect the crap going on.

I'll shut up now. Talk to you all later. Probably just post another picture of my kid. That makes me happy. 

Perch jerkin this weekend regards,


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Chris,

I feel compelled to say something here.

I have noted two comments in this thread that you have made. I think they do EVERYONE a disservice. Maybe they are not what you intended.

The first was several pages back about "Ammo and her owners having had a target painted on their back since weaning" or something of that nature and now you state "this whole nonsense that started this thread".

I for one, believe that the original poster (not knowing what was going on) asked an honest question about a dog that got TONS of publicity last year. Now, she has essentially fallen off the edge of the earth. I believe that he sincerely was just curious as were several other posters.

Secondly, I don't believe that Ammo had any target on her back. Go look back at the Ammo thread which is a bazillion pages long and you will see she has had and does have many many followers and people wishing her success.

Thirdly, don't you think that when an adult acts in a way that could be (according to Bill D) misconstrued by some to be misconduct (although not by him) that perhaps that adult COULD have acted in a more adult manner as to not have someone (judge, marshal, FTC etc) believe it to be truly misconduct? Don't you think its very possible for an ADULT to control themselves?

I know that the people that play this game are most passionate about it. Its competitive. Its thrilling.....but if we are unable to control our actions at least SOME, are we really any better than the 5 year old that gets mad and "takes his ball and goes home"??

One thing that NO ONE here can say is, that Bill P was sitting in his chair minding his own business when someone accused him of misconduct. So SOMETHING happened and some/most/all but Bill D feel it was misconduct.

Frankly, a two month suspension and a $100 fine is nada....squat....diddly.....get over it and move on.

WRL


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

WRL said:


> Frankly, a two month suspension and a $100 fine is nada....squat....diddly.....get over it and move on.


Hmmmm..... i just said this earlier tonite. There's been more than one "ikon of the sport" with this very same suspension and fine. One of them even posted a rather long winded apology for bad behavior right on this very forum a year or two ago. 

It's time to pay the fine, train the dog, run the dog, move on, and "be nice." Kumbahya ....


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

WRL said:


> Chris,
> 
> I feel compelled to say something here.
> 
> ...


Lee, I think that you and I may be more on the same page than it appears. This thread was started because Ammo is nowhere to be seen lately. 

This appears to be due to whatever happened. Whether you want to call it "behaving like a child" or something else, the fact of the matter is that someone, somehow was being unkind. 

Can we agree upon that? Can we agree that being unkind, by whomever was the thing that triggered all of this?

I apologize deeply for giving any impression of doing the retriever world a disservice. If you go back and skim through the "bazillion page" thread, you will find sprinkled throughout, among the Ammo supporters, folks who have been criticizing and downtalking the dog and her accomplishments all along. It is those comments which I have referenced as putting a bullseye on their backs. Some of those same folks have recently been fanning the flames of the Ammo issue, even though they have little involvement in this issue.

We'll just have to disagree on whether or not the team had a bullseye on their backs. I can assure you that Bill, Micki and Ammo felt that there was a bullseye on their backs at times. Does that justify any behavior undue a sportsman? No.... And I'm not saying whether they did or did not exhibit such behavior. I was not there. But I can understand how Bill may have felt more pressure than many other competitors in the stake due to all that's transpired over the past couple years.

I believe something happened...that's pretty obvious.

Frankly I think it really, really stinks that two of the committe members (Scott and Pete) got drug in here when they admittedly are not RTF users, solely to try and defend themselves. 

Sometimes running a resource like this is a no-win proposition. I honestly believe that all of the airtime this issue has gotten is nonsense and it was not worthy of being made such a public spectacle. I'm not blaming the initiator of this thread for creating the nonsense. I'm saying that nonsense is the reason the guy had to ask...

And again, if folks were more kind, none of this would be getting discussed.

Chris


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## Clay Warren (Nov 3, 2009)

ChocoLab21 said:


> Sorry to stir the pot! If I would have known Bill and Ammos predicament I would have kept this topic under wraps so they could sort it out. Sorry to hear about what happened and hope everything comes out ok. Needless to say it is hard to point fingers, guess they will just have to roll with the punches now.


Just to clarify my support for Ammo is genuine and was quite surprised when I recieved numerous PM's about the topic from both sides of the issue shortly after I posted. Like I said if I would have known I wouldnt have brought it up. Most of us werent there so it is probably not our business and hope everything comes out ok for team Ammo!


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## baggr (Sep 10, 2008)

I seldom weigh in on these things but after reading what is now an 11 page thread and thinking about all that is happening in this country and around the world I can only say ITS A GAME ... GET OVER IT !!!!!


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Much more then just a game I think. We put so much of ourselves into these dogs, emotions run high. Combine that with highly competitive people and things can get pretty tense.
> All the best to everyone involved.
> Walt


Maybe that's the problem. People forget. Its just a game.

Its not life or death. 

There are people in the world that are starving. There are people in the world dying. Our soldiers are across the way getting shot at.

Life really IS pretty good you know. 

For the retriever people to have the disposable income to play this game we are passionate about is really very good fortune. 

Life really is pretty good for us.

WRL


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

WRL said:


> Life really is pretty good for us.
> WRL


Is that a cause of incivility or an excuse for it, shouldn't that cause people to be more civil not less?


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

EdA said:


> Is that a cause of incivility or an excuse for it, shouldn't that cause people to be more civil not less?


Absolutely. That should make us MORE civil.

And as Chris would say, more kind.

WRL


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

(not specifically related to Ammo or the subject at hand, because I was not there, and therefore have no judgement or opinion of the matter)....

Competition can bring out the worst in people...when a title, or record, or money is on the line, it thus can become intensified..... 

Unfortunately people have crappy days, and even more unfortunate, some of these people seem to fling that crap around and get it on everyone else around them. 
Which generally just makes for a huge stinky mess.

Juli


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## Clay Rogers (Jul 8, 2008)

Who's Ammo?


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

stumpholehunter said:


> Who's Ammo?


LMAO!!

/thread


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

stumpholehunter said:


> Who's Ammo?


 
Of course the greatest chocolate dog to live in history....just ask me



back to the mud slinging regardless.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

WRL said:


> Absolutely. That should make us MORE civil.
> 
> And as Chris would say, more kind.
> 
> WRL


Actually, I got that phrase from my wife.

I've heard her say "Be kind" more than once... To other people outside our family of course...or sometimes to my kids. Never to me though!


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## baggr (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm guessing there are a lot of folks down around the Gulf Coast who are wishing right now that their biggest concern is whether their dog finishes a field trial ... 

We ALL need to take a step back from time to time, look at our priorities and put them in proper perspective. I've seen the dog run, I don't know his owner, but I'm willing to bet if he did just that, he'd get back into the game and probably enjoy it a lot more !!


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Actually, I got that phrase from my wife.
> 
> I've heard her say "Be kind" more than once... To other people outside our family of course...or sometimes to my kids. *Never to me though*!


 
Are your pants on fire Chris?????


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## 24116 (May 8, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Peterson 
so since you're imformed what's the story??? 

To lazy to do your own search?

You can't lean on the work of others all your life.
__________________
Howard Niemi


Thanks Howard


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