# Oxytocin ~breeder/vet question



## Reddiamondlabs

Last litter we had trouble at the end of our delivery and my vet recommended to give her oxytocin and it worked with the second dosage. I have 2 litters due so I just went to the vet and got a bottle of oxytocin in case of an emergency this time and to be prepared. This is the protocol a breeder friend of mine gave me to go by. Does anyone else have an opinion or a protocol they go by or is this one pretty acurate? All my vet said was give her .02 cc in the vaginal lip subq repeat with .05 cc in 30 minutes , if no pup bring her in.

Oxytocin protocol

After the Previous pup is born ,,, wait 45-90 minutes then start 
giving the Oxytocin in the sequential steps shown below: 
-First dose of Oxytocin is .02 cc SQ (then wait 30 minutes,, if no 
pups presented go to second dose.)
-Second dose of Oxytocin is .05 cc SQ (then wait 30 minutes, if no 
pups presented then go to third dose)
-Third dose of Oxytocin is .05 cc SQ, .05 cc IM (in muscle) (wait 30 
minutes ,, if no pups presented then go to fourth dose)
- Four dose of Oxytocin is .1 cc SQ, .2 cc IM (wait 30 minutes,, if 
no pups then go into vets for an ultrasound to see what you have going 
on)


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## WRL

No. That's not the protocol that I use nor has been recommended to me. 

Dr Ed or one of the other vets need to weigh in on this.

You may need to supplement some calcium for the last week or so of the pregnancies. It helps with the "stallers".

WRL


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## ErinsEdge

Reddiamondlabs said:


> Last litter we had trouble at the end of our delivery and my vet recommended to give her oxytocin and it worked with the second dosage. I have 2 litters due so I just went to the vet and got a bottle of oxytocin in case of an emergency this time and to be prepared. This is the protocol a breeder friend of mine gave me to go by. Does anyone else have an opinion or a protocol they go by or is this one pretty acurate? All my vet said was give her .02 cc in the vaginal lip subq repeat with .05 cc in 30 minutes , if no pup bring her in.
> 
> "Oxytocin protocol
> 
> After the Previous pup is born ,,, wait 45-90 minutes then start
> giving the Oxytocin in the sequential steps shown below:
> -First dose of Oxytocin is .02 cc SQ (then wait 30 minutes,, if no
> pups presented go to second dose.)
> -Second dose of Oxytocin is .05 cc SQ (then wait 30 minutes, if no
> pups presented then go to third dose)
> -Third dose of Oxytocin is .05 cc SQ, .05 cc IM (in muscle) (wait 30
> minutes ,, if no pups presented then go to fourth dose)
> - Four dose of Oxytocin is .1 cc SQ, .2 cc IM (wait 30 minutes,, if
> no pups then go into vets for an ultrasound to see what you have going
> on)


How would you even measure that? A 1cc TB syringe has those increments but that is a very very amount; however, I did find that protocol on the internet.

This is Dr Hutchinson and my repro vets protocol. Dr Robert Van Hutchinson is considered by many the foremost authority on reproduction and this was from a discussion available online.


*Question: Oxytocin (Pit shots). *
*Can you discuss the proper use of oxytocin injections during whelping? It seems that many breeders use oxytocin early on in the whelping process, when they feel it isn't progressing fast enough.* 
*DrHutch:* A puppy in the uterus has only two elements maintaining its oxygenation and life, one being the heartrate of the puppy, two being the blood pressure from mom to the uterus. 
The whole goal in whelping is to maintain vital elements. Oxytocin I use in a very specific manner. If you've gone three hours without a puppy, I use one dose of oxytocin. My dose of oxytocin is two units per ten pounds of body weight (or 0.1cc per 10 lb). Oxytocin is normally 20 units per ml;* I never use more than half an ml, no matter how big the bitch is. *
I give one injection; if nothing happens, I give a second injection 20 minutes later. If nothing happens, I go to a C-section. 
If you get too much oxytocin at a time, you will cause the puppies not to be expelled from the uterus but shrunk wrapped IN the uterus. The two injections of oxytocin actually increase the blood pressure to uterus which is beneficial to the puppies. If we keep giving them, we LOWER the blood pressure to the uterus, which robs the puppies of oxygen. 
Using calcium with the oxytocin... now that we can monitor calcium levels in our practice I do not normally give calcium if the bitch is normal, because it causes the heart to slow down. If I need to give calcium I now use Calsorb, an oral gel that is absorbed almost as quickly as injectable. I can give it in small amounts more often, and don't have to worry about the side effects of injected calcium. 
To clarify, my standard protocol (with oxytocin) is two injections; if two don't do it, two, four, ten, twenty, is not going to do it. In most cases I keep score by how many live puppies I deliver, not how many C-sections I avoid. I wait three hours from the last puppy. 
My signs of dystocia are: 
Temp just before labor readjusts back up to normal; 
If I have no puppy born in four hours. 
That is my definition of primary uterine inertia. 
Straining hard for an hour... that is when you would NOT give oxytocin. Longer than three hours between puppies, that's when you DO give oxytocin. Any black, red, or green discharge before any puppies are delivered indicates placental detachment and needs attention. "

Do not use if the bitch is in hard labor or you risk uterine rupture. I always feel in the vaginal canal before giving it.


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## EdA

I use oxytocin very judiciously until whelping is complete, if one standard dose injection does not achieve the desired results in a reasonable period of time a C-section is probably in order. 

People get too hung up on time intervals between puppies, the only time interval that matters is the amount of time in hard non-productive labor, some bitches will have some puppies rapidly then nothing for hours, as long as the placental attachments are in place the puppies are fine, once uterine contractions begin in earnest (either naturally or in response to oxytocin) placental detachment is likely to occur at which time the puppy is at risk for hypoxia.

I discourage the use of oxytocin by lay people unless they have lots of experience and ready access to a 24 hour clinic.


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## Reddiamondlabs

Thank you so much. My vet did give me the TB syringes. Im going with Nancy's protocol. I just printed it off and put in the fridge with the oxytocin, hope I dont have to use it.
On the female I gave it to last time, she basically acted to tired to push, I could feel the puppy still moving and it was about 3 hrs after her last pup. When I went to the vet to get the oxytocin he already had it drawn up for me. She had the pup without any complications 15 minutes after I gave the 2nd doasage.


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## ErinsEdge

I actually give only half that dose because that shrink wrapping concerns me-usually 0.2 does it. Like Dr Ed said, it is to be used very very carefully.


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## Reddiamondlabs

Eda,
I have my vet on speed dial and am only about 15 minutes from his office. Im a paramedic and administer drugs all the time per standing order protocols or Dr.'s orders so Im pretty comfortable following protocols. This is why Im looking for the best and correct protocol to follow in an emergency. I have called my vet at 2 am before and its taken upto 45 minutes for him to return my call those 45 minutes seem like hours when you feel like your in an emergency, of course I go to plan B and start calling other vets, but small town vets dont always answer at 2am, they do eventually return your call but its usually not on the first or 2nd try. The nearest 24 hr clinic is over an hour and half away. Are you saying only use one injection then head for the vet? I have read lots of your advise on this forum and have used alot of it. So I truly respect your expertise.
Thanks,
Michaela


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## 30 caliber

I am a veterinarian too. I completely agree with the protocol and reasoning of ErinsEdge's veterinarian. Nothing happening after two doses; it's time for a c-section.


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## Bridget Bodine

Like Dr Ed said , alot of people go by the clock , "oh God ,2 hrs and no more pups, yikes" but 3-4 hrs can be normal too......I have not used oxytocin in years. But I have had one or two bitches that had me chewing on my fingers, and all turned out fine.


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## firehouselabs

It would probably be a better idea to have an x ray done to get a better idea of just how many she is having so that you know for a fact that she is stalling with more pups in her, rather than either assuming she is done or giving shots when none are needed. Especially due to how large she is and her body type (huge, and short bodied).


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## PridezionLabs

EdA said:


> I use oxytocin very judiciously until whelping is complete, if one standard dose injection does not achieve the desired results in a reasonable period of time a C-section is probably in order.
> 
> People get too hung up on time intervals between puppies, the only time interval that matters is the amount of time in hard non-productive labor, some bitches will have some puppies rapidly then nothing for hours, as long as the placental attachments are in place the puppies are fine, once uterine contractions begin in earnest (either naturally or in response to oxytocin) placental detachment is likely to occur at which time the puppy is at risk for hypoxia.
> 
> I discourage the use of oxytocin by lay people unless they have lots of experience and ready access to a 24 hour clinic.


It's nice to hear some one who really knows say this. I have always just watched my mom's , I never quite felt it right that she had to have pups within a certain time frame. As long as she was "telling" me she was fine (normal breathing, normal behavior) I just let her have 'em her way. As she gets tired with a huge litter I do give Calcium orally maybe after puppy 8 or 9. I also make sure the puppies are nursing at all times (well, not when she's literally delivering a pup). I have used pit shots and I don't care for them, I think if it's a normal whelp it interfere's with her natural balance.


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## PridezionLabs

Reddiamondlabs said:


> Last litter we had trouble at the end of our delivery and my vet recommended to give her oxytocin and it worked with the second dosage. I have 2 litters due so I just went to the vet and got a bottle of oxytocin in case of an emergency this time and to be prepared. This is the protocol a breeder friend of mine gave me to go by. Does anyone else have an opinion or a protocol they go by or is this one pretty acurate? All my vet said was give her .02 cc in the vaginal lip subq repeat with .05 cc in 30 minutes , if no pup bring her in.
> 
> Oxytocin protocol
> 
> After the Previous pup is born ,,, wait 45-90 minutes then start
> giving the Oxytocin in the sequential steps shown below:
> -First dose of Oxytocin is .02 cc SQ (then wait 30 minutes,, if no
> pups presented go to second dose.)
> -Second dose of Oxytocin is .05 cc SQ (then wait 30 minutes, if no
> pups presented then go to third dose)
> -Third dose of Oxytocin is .05 cc SQ, .05 cc IM (in muscle) (wait 30
> minutes ,, if no pups presented then go to fourth dose)
> - Four dose of Oxytocin is .1 cc SQ, .2 cc IM (wait 30 minutes,, if
> no pups then go into vets for an ultrasound to see what you have going
> on)


What kind of trouble are you referring to Michaela? You can PM me if you like.


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## wheelhorse

Well, most vets I know won't give out oxytocin anymore. Can you say lawsuit?


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## Guest

firehouselabs said:


> It would probably be a better idea to have an x ray done to get a better idea of just how many she is having so that you know for a fact that she is stalling with more pups in her, rather than either assuming she is done or giving shots when none are needed. Especially due to how large she is and her body type (huge, and short bodied).


I agree with firehouse, and of course deter to the vets onhand and here... 

BUT isn't the biggest part of the equation WHY there's a stall? I would be afraid to give oxytocin without knowing why there's no puppy being produced. It's why we always used whelpwise...


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## ErinsEdge

I have heard that Whelpwise uses the protocol the OP posted to get the puppies out fast so there are very short time lags, not a normal delivery at all. If this is true I think that would go against Dr Hutchinson's protocol, who is respected by many as the authority on reproduction, and could shrink wrap the puppies. I think whelping involves some degree of patience to know what is normal and what is not normal. Every c-section I have had, the vet has concurred I read it right. I am lucky because she is close and has always been there for me as long as I got an xray before whelping for a count. Patience can come only from years of experience which obviously is acquired. Many females empty one horn and take a rest but a dead puppy can be the hold up, and you need an ultrasound to deterime if one is dead, unless there is only one and you should have determined that with an xray.


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