# Gunners Up vs Zinger Winger



## R Williams (Mar 8, 2004)

I had one of my Gunners Up units go out of service due to possible servo problems and have decided to purchase a new launcher for the time being and if I ever get the old one fixed I will have a spare.
I would like to hear from those who have used both Gunners Up and Zinger Winger and hear which one you liked best.
I will most likley go with Gunners Up because they have been good units but with one down I can't help but look at the others.

Thanks


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## Josh Conrad (Jul 3, 2005)

do a search on the topic, i did last night. you will find a lot of threads on the subject.


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## Ben Hucks (May 11, 2004)

*wingers*

I have some of both models. I think that when you use them alot there are things that are going to go out on them. The servos are what i consider normal upkeep. I have extra servos for all my launcers, Gunners Up, Zinger and bumper boys. I called and ordered them, i think they were around 15.00. I had them in about 2-3 days. It's just good to keep some extras aroung.


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## Black Forest Retrievers (Jul 17, 2006)

First of all what is a servo (technically challenged).

I have 3 Gunners Up and love them. I have not had a problem with them what so ever. Rich (owner) I believe is the sole owner, so i am pretty sure he takes great pride in his units. 

Plus, i think for the price they are a good buy. But again, i have not owned and zingers. 

Call GU and ask for Rich and see if he can take care of you.


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## chasd (Nov 20, 2003)

*gu vs zw*

I do not own a GU but a friend I train with does. I have trained with him since he got it (won at a HT raffle). He owns a zinger as do I. We have discussed the differences several times and although the GU is cheaper both of us agree that the zinger is worth the extra money. Hard to describe "quality" but when you see it you know it and the zinger is a better built machine IMO. His GU has broken the hinges that keep the arms up and has it's share of other minor issues. It is also more difficult to load than the zinger. I did just put my money where my mouth is as I ordered a new G3 field trialer last week. Not saying GU is bad but I think zinger is better.


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

We have two GU and they have been good units for the price. I have used them in several Hunt Test weekends with only one problem one day. 
But if I was able to go out and purchase more wingers I would probably go with a Zinger as it takes only one hand to load them where with the GU you need two. Also I like the throw better with the Zinger. I do need another winger so I will probably purchase a Zinger with my gift certificate, and Rob has been very good to all the HRC clubs in his area. He provides used Zingers for any club that doesn't have enough equipment to run a good test. He even delivers them for you and picks them up when you are done with your test. Real stand up guy.


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## Slinger Guru (Apr 7, 2006)

*Launchers*

There has not been one report of a Slinger failing, EVER. Might be worth a look, at www.retrieverspecialists.com. The magnet that holds the pouch and releases it, is either on or off.

Best regards,
Robert Steiner
Birds-Up launchers, "They Just Plain Work".


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## Gunners Up (Jul 29, 2004)

*WHAT?*



> There has not been one report of a Slinger failing, EVER.


Bob,

You really didn't have a dog in this fight but now that you have jumped in I thought I would refresh your memory a little. The following quotes come from a post that was on the Gundog Forum from the Refuge:

_Canadian Gooseman _wrote:



> Great Lakes used them and from the comments from judges and the handlers If some one tells you they used them with out any NO BIRDS then I thick you are being lied too.



_Flying Dutchman _wrote: 



> It's true, we did use the slingers in finished and had a number of no birds at our test in May. To my knowledge (I ran finished and helped to marshal, as well) no bird boy was injured or hurt (my how stories get going ), but there were some issues with teaching them the best way to load the birds. As near as we could tell there is a big difference in the weight of a real duck compared to that of a Dokken (or ATB as was thrown in the SRS). The throws we got were fine, but weren't as high and arcing as some you get from other winger options.


_Hot Duck _wrote:



> Several members of our club, liked it, but unfortunately for Birds Up(the name of the slinger Co.) they only got to see it malfunction before i had it fixed. Our club just purchased 22 Gunners Up, and I believe had I not had the problems, they may have considered the Slinger?? When I mentioned this to Bob, he stated, " he hated losing the business.


_Justbehindit _wrote:



> Wasn't going to say where at first, but now that you mentioned it.... yeah, that was the place. 12 no birds on water and 5 on land for finished. I believe that the issue was real birds vs Dokkens and bumpers.


_Bob ?The Slinger Guru? Stiener _wrote: 



> There is currently not a shot available on launch


Bob, always check your facts before making bold statements like:



> There has not been one report of a Slinger failing, EVER.


There is one thing that I have learned since we began Gunners Up. All launchers and Wingers fail. It doesn't matter if it is mine or my competitors, you can't help that. What you can help and what the true test is, is will the company still be in business when you have an issue and will they stand behind their product? 

I'll be the first to admit that we stumbled coming out of the blocks but we stood behind our product and we got a lot better in a hurry. We also made sure that all of our customers had access to upgrades free of charge. I think if you look at our launchers and the components we use today (All stainless steel hardware, powder coated frames, stainless steel pulleys and hinges, servo operated release, primer shot on release, stronger tubing) you would see why Gunners Up has gained in market share and why we keep being invited back to be the official launcher of the HRC Spring and Fall Grand.

Like I said earlier you really didn't have a dog in this fight but now that you are here welcome to the frey! Best of luck to you.

Richard Davis
Gunners Up


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## Slinger Guru (Apr 7, 2006)

*Slingers*

I almost didn't reply to the post by Mr. Davis because I will not enter into attacks on anyone or any person or a product. My first reply wasn't and this won't be, I will invite folks to consider the Slinger whenever they are looking into what's available.

What I will do though, is defend the criticisms, some justified and others, rumor. In the case of the Great Lakes test which mr. Davis posted here, I reply as follows.

Although I can't address morning no-birds in the particular test referred to, the Great Lakes HRC test, I will say that I was at the test in the morning. I watched about 7 or 8 dogs run and then went to my trailer across the road from the test. I was not informed that there was a great amount of trouble with the launches, nor asked to help. 

I can speak to the Slinger no-birds in the land test in the afternoon. There were 3 Slingers in use in that test. If my memory serves me right, for the first 4 dogs 2 Slingers did exactly as they were supposed to and the third didn't. With the interest as well as the responsibility I felt, and feel anytime the Slingers are used, I went to the bird boy and assisted. From that point on there were no no-birds the rest of the day, from any of the 3 Slingers. It only seems reasonable then to conclude that the trouble was not the fault of the Slinger. While I was at the loading site with the youngster that had the trouble, I did nothing special, just saw to it that the bird was loaded per the usual instructions, that is, to have the bird completely in the pouch. In the same message board talk that said that there were "lots" of no-birds, the comment was made that someone had heard that one of the bird-boys was hurt loading a Slinger. That statement was completely false, NO ONE has been injured by a Slinger, EVER. 

I am truly sorry Mr. Davis that you felt that I attacked your product.

Robert Steiner
Birds-Up launchers, "They Just Plain Work".


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## Gunners Up (Jul 29, 2004)

I


> almost didn't reply to the post by Mr. Davis because I will not enter into attacks on anyone or any person or a product


.

Bob,

I wasn't attacking you or your product. What I did do, is point out that you hijacked a thread to shamelessly plug your own product and were making a claim that was untrue. 

I'm glad you're here. Compitition makes us all better.

Best of luck to you.

Richard Davis
Gunners Up


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## Jason E. (Sep 9, 2004)

GU is not only a great product but have great customer service.


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

I appreciate the slinger guru's honesty and have seen sameless plug's numerous times from different companies, GU included.


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## Jeff Kolanski (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: WHAT?*



Gunners Up said:


> > There has not been one report of a Slinger failing, EVER.
> 
> 
> Bob,
> ...


  8)

GU *IS* the only way to go!! Great products and AWESOME customer service.


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

Acutally I like the fact that the slinger bring's some new thinking and engineering to the table instaed of simply copying an expensive industry standard and selling it at a cheaper price!


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## Black Forest Retrievers (Jul 17, 2006)

Dude...it is ON!!!, NOW!!!!!


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## Jeff Kolanski (Dec 9, 2005)

Misty Marsh Labradors said:


> Acutally I like the fact that the slinger bring's some new thinking and engineering to the table instaed of simply copying an expensive industry standard and selling it at a cheaper price!


However, the fact of the matter is, if it ("thinking and engineering") is not broke, don't fix it!! GU & ZW HAVE set the "industry standard" without much flaws. Leave it be


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## labinitup (Jan 4, 2005)

Misty Marsh Labradors said:


> Acutally I like the fact that the slinger bring's some new thinking and engineering to the table instaed of simply copying an expensive industry standard and selling it at a cheaper price!


Where'd you get the idea for the "Misty Marsh Bird Launcher" that's listed on your web site? And the improvement you stated to your launcher-what product did they come from?
Kinda like calling the kettle black dont ya think?


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## blackpowder (Jun 29, 2005)

So anyhoo, back to the original question. I, too am looking at GU and ZW and would like some more feedback. I like GU pricing, but I've been told by a friend who owns one of each that the ZW is the better built winger.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

I think the older ZW's were built a little heavier than the GU. That said, however, I have a new SOG that is built with thicker metal than the full size GU's I have. I do believe that I was told that this is the same thickness all new GU's are made with. If that is the case I would not go so far as to say the ZW is better built. The hinges on the SOG are even much better than the old ones.
I use to say that GU is about the same as ZW for much less, but IF the hinges and material thickness is the same as it is on the SOG I would say GU is about on the same level.
Richard might be able to confirm if this is correct or not.
I have launched thousands of birds out of my GU?s with only routine maintenance (rubbers..) and one servo went bad and was replaced immediately by GU (servos go out on everything I own that has them so I consider it to be fairly routine maintenance as well and carry extras for my Bumper Boys and GUs).
MHO, you can?t beat the GU?s


BTW- How many slingers are even out there? 20?[/quote]


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

Labinitup, I actually got the idea's for my "Misty Marsh Bird Winger" from a process of trial and error of original thoughts of what would make a "better winger" It was never copied from anything store bought, as I have never owned a "store bought" winger and have no need to after using mine and seeing other peoples store bought stuff! The goal was to engineer something new, lighter, more compact, reliable, and still throw a nice bird for less than $300.00 US. I hope to have it ready for the market very soon, then hopefully people will buy it, and they will more than likely pick it apart like this thread is as nothing of this nature will be perfect, but it will be a new spin, not a copy!


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

Gunners Up product, hmmm. There have been many no birds from my two gunners up launchers.
Problems:
1. On occassions it fails to release untill you are close to it or raise the transmitter high in the air.
2. Two of the rubber tubbings are about to break at the attachment point to the blue coated nylon bag. The rubber is being gradually cut when it suddenly comes in contact with the steel pulleys.
3. One of the nylon lock nuts worked its way loose and the parts with the hook for the pulley became lost in the tall grass at a field trial.
Well the entire trial attendees saw the Gunners Up crash that day.

Would I buy another? Sure, but I would lower my expectations for near flawless performance.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

lol, brian... have you found that leather prada wallet you were lookin for?


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Ironwood said:


> Gunners Up product, hmmm. There have been many no birds from my two gunners up launchers.
> Problems:
> 1. On occassions it fails to release untill you are close to it or raise the transmitter high in the air.
> 2. Two of the rubber tubbings are about to break at the attachment point to the blue coated nylon bag. The rubber is being gradually cut when it suddenly comes in contact with the steel pulleys.
> ...


1. Would fail to release ANY launcher because that would be an electronics issue NOT a launcher issue. How would the GU unit itself have anything to do with the transmitter sending a signal to the receiver? I have the same thing happen with both ZW and GU and it goes back to the Tri Tronics electronics, NOT the ZW or the GU.

2. Again the same thing will happen with ANY launcher that uses rubbers. When rubbers are worn REPLACE THEM. If you keep cutting them off you are not addressing the issue which is routine maintenance. If your rubbers are worn and you shorten them you are only adding more stress to an already worn rubber. Rubbers are like people, as soon as they are ?born? they start to die. Exposure to the sun and repeated stretching wears them out and that is how we use them.

3. The nylon lock nuts on my Bumper Boys also get lose and would be lost if I did not check them. I have also had this issue on my GUs but I always check all my equipment before using be it GUs, ZW, BB...

I don't see where anyone has EVER claimed that you can use Gunners Up, Zingers, Bumper Boys....without doing maintenance on them. I guess Chevy/Ford/Toyota all make bad products because you have to change the oil on a regular basis.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> Ironwood said:
> 
> 
> > Gunners Up product, hmmm. There have been many no birds from my two gunners up launchers.
> ...


AMEN!!!


Poorly maintained equipment will eventually and habitually perform poorly.


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## labinitup (Jan 4, 2005)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> badbullgator said:
> 
> 
> > Ironwood said:
> ...


I concur Badbullgator!!!!


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## labinitup (Jan 4, 2005)

Misty Marsh Labradors said:


> Labinitup, I actually got the idea's for my "Misty Marsh Bird Winger" from a process of trial and error of original thoughts of what would make a "better winger" It was never copied from anything store bought, as I have never owned a "store bought" winger and have no need to after using mine and seeing other peoples store bought stuff! The goal was to engineer something new, lighter, more compact, reliable, and still throw a nice bird for less than $300.00 US. I hope to have it ready for the market very soon, then hopefully people will buy it, and they will more than likely pick it apart like this thread is as nothing of this nature will be perfect, but it will be a new spin, not a copy!


Well, good for you!


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2006)

Would you folks PLEASE check out Jerry Day's Sur Toss Winger? I've worked with just about every winger out there. I'm not going to say which others I've owned because they were fine, but I was concerned they were dangerous. I don't like the idea of reaching IN to a catapult mechanism to load a bird. And had a friend (and several acquaintances of other friends) slice fingers and get hurt because of having to reach into the GU and zinger - type mechanisms to reload.

Look at Jerry's sur-toss. For those of you with small vehicles, these things fold down to NOTHING. They are the equivalent of a shotgun case, slightly longer. They come in both kick and "non-kick" version. The "non-kick" (my language, not jerry's) can be outfitted with Jerry Roellchen's Train Rite remote release which is AWESOME.

These wingers are SUPER light, SUPER small, SUPER reliable, SUPER easy to use and SUPER safe.

The only bad thing about them is that not enough people know about them... 

I love mine and wouldn't trade them for the world. The only thing I would like to have, and it's too big and too much of a pain, is a manual tripod winger for flinging birds 500 yards. LOL

I have had mine for I think three years now? At least two years. They are EXTREMLY well made. I have had ZERO failures in the construction of them. The only bad experience, which really wasn't Jerry's fault, was that the first pulleys that were on them were made in a manner where the band could get caught and get frayed over time. But Jerry replaced them with higher quality pulleys once he had them in hand.

And, "for the record", I train 16-22 dogs a day, plus sometimes a few extra tagalongs that come for the day. I use them always to shoot flyers. I use them in the field quite often, although not daily. But they get lots of use and yet to fail. The only no birds we've had have been the result of people not untwisting the bands if they get twisted...










If I can describe it properly, the horizontal bars of the "H" frame come free of one of the legs and drop down parallel with the other leg, leaving you two long pieces. Then the leg comes off the "H" frame. So you have three pieces that hook together to create the winger. At the base of the leg, there's a hole for a stake. You can set it up in seconds.

It's basically a tangelo-type design, but the horizontal bars drop down for storage and it's bands, not bungees... But it's just as safe as the tangelo... But stores much better.... And comes with a storage bag to boot.

-K


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## haneym (Aug 18, 2006)

kristie,

why do you say the shurtoss is safer? both style wingers are pretty much the same... you bring the pouch down and clip it into the release, put the bird/bumper in the pouch, stretch and clip the tubing and then you are ready to go. i dont understand what youre saying?? and this is an honest question, i have no motives...

i have used zingers, gunners up and shurtoss in hunt tests before. personally i didnt like the 3 leg design of the shurtoss, it was a little too flimsy for me. our club will be buying some wingers soon and we are likely going with GU as a concensus vote having used them all.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2006)

haneym said:


> kristie,
> 
> why do you say the shurtoss is safer? both style wingers are pretty much the same... you bring the pouch down and clip it into the release, put the bird/bumper in the pouch, stretch and clip the tubing and then you are ready to go. i dont understand what youre saying?? and this is an honest question, i have no motives...
> 
> i have used zingers, gunners up and shurtoss in hunt tests before. personally i didnt like the 3 leg design of the shurtoss, it was a little too flimsy for me. our club will be buying some wingers soon and we are likely going with GU as a concensus vote having used them all.


With the other wingers, when you are loading, you have to reach down in to the unit (both to load a bird and to put the bands down TO load it to begin with). Your face, hands and upper body are within the area where the pouch launches as you are working with this unit. This is not the same with tangelo-type designs, where the bands are on the outer part of the unit and you are pulling bands down OUTSIDE the launching "radius" of the pouch.

The 3-leg design isn't flimsy at all. It's actually easier to use on terrain because it doesn't have to be "square" like the "4-leg" designs do. The only thing that needs to be as square as possible is the front frame, where with a zinger or guns up you need BOTH back and front frames to be square.

The sure-toss is less bulky than its competitors, yet is equally as sturdy.

Also, the release mechanism on the sur-toss (both manual and if you use train-rite) is MUCH less likely to fail (and in my opinion less likely to fail at all) as a result of its design. There's nothing that can shake loose or that mechanically can easily come undone or get loose through repeated use.

I remembered at one of the mike lardy workshops I attended, he said the Tangelo was the only thing he'd let his children operate and I wondered why (I wasn't familiar with Tangelo). After seeing the difference in the designs and the simplicity and strength of the mechanisms, I understood.

I have three employees that work for me and I was seriously always nervous when they took out my previous wingers. They knew how to be careful with them... But no matter how hard you try -- even when I was working with them -- they'd occasionally launch as you were loading them or otherwise fidgeting with them. 

I have never felt this fear with the sur-toss. And the additional benefits (storage being the biggest) outweigh the other units by leaps and bounds in my opinion.

Oh, with my other wingers... The electrical wiring would occasionally get hung up on something and get yanked to the point where we'd have to re-do the wiring. Or the pouch would get hung up on expanded metal of the trailer or breezeway. There was always something getting caught... This doesn't happen with the sur-toss...

-K


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2006)

duplicate post... sorry


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