# Field Trial Dog Life



## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm new to Field Trials / Hunt Tests and appreciate all the knowledge and advice found in these forums. I'm currently waiting on a new pup and he will be the first I've owned that will receive professional training. He is a very well bred pup and we are excited to get him.

When I attempted to purchase my last dog, the breeder strongly resisted selling him to me because I wasn't in the field trial game. She finally relented and I'm happy she did. That pup was out of Yellowstone's TNT Explosion (Nitro) and he was everything one could ask for in a dog. Although he lived in the house with the family, he got TONS of exercise and plenty of love and affection. In return he gave us everything he had right until the end.

During this recent search, I had two breeders refuse to sell me a pup because I was unsure if I would place him in FT or HT at the time. One stated, "placing such a well bred dog with a family is a waste of genetics". That was his attitude even though I live on the water and our dogs run/swim/retrieve EVERY day. While I understand breeding dogs is a business to some, I think they have forgotten that "quality of life" is a concept that applies to our four legged friends as well. 

I expressed the above to a successful Field trialer recently. He responded by saying my dog likely had a better life than many many FT dogs. What do you think?


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Welcome to RTF! I am not a breeder, pro or regular trialer. I was told the same thing when I got my first Field Lab. In most ways that breeder was absolutely right for trying to talk me out of my choice. These well bred high drive dogs require a lot more than exercise and maintenance. They NEED a job to do and the DISCIPLINE necessary to do it. If you don't have a job for them or a program of development, they will certainly find their own. And that is when trouble starts. They are genetically wired for that job, so to keep peace in the household you need to participate in something. Having gotten the dog I wanted it has been a rough road to learn how to put his skills to use. I have learned more from him than any book or program could have taught me. So I do understand the reason a breeder would turn a non competing buyer down. Unless I had developed the desire and determination to run tests and trials, that dog would NOT have been a good pet. As it is, he is the best house dog I have ever owned and my number one! My #2 and #3 dogs have benefited from what I learned from the first! So don't judge the breeder too harshly that said it would be a "waste of genetics". I really do believe that most reputable breeders are very concerned indeed that their pups have the best life that fills their specific needs. Good luck with the new one and enjoy the ride!


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## blake_mhoona (Mar 19, 2012)

while i agree a good life is essential i think most field trial dogs when at home (not at trainer) they lead pretty good lives. to put so much money in a dog to just have it be a yard dog when at home is something i think you may never see. i only know a few succesful field trial dogs (and a few less sucessful but still lead the same life) but all of them stay in the house. beg for food just like any other dog. probably real playful and fun to be around. you'll see some people describe this as an "on/off switch" meaning when they are home they are content laying on the couch and enjoying life.

i'm guessing the hesitancy to sell a field trial dog to you is because when you have so much money tied up in the sire/female that they want a pup that will perform and showcase the parents. which can lead to bragging such as "pup from previous litter was on the derby list...etc". that makes the sire or female look better and in return generate more money. plus at the end of the day if the pup has the makeup to be successful dont you owe it to him/her to perform at their best potential?

to take such a dog and just make it a hunting dog is like saying nick saban should of been a pee-wee coach, or tiger woods a local country club pro. they have so much potential they owe it to themselves to be the best. to have it be a house dog would be like saying nick saban should of been a psychologist or tiger a (muscle) rehab therapist


again this is just my opinion. i never wanted in the games but after evaluating my dogs talent a young age i felt i owed it to him to have some fun with him and let him compete. sure he'd be just a content laying on the couch or taking walks etc but he has the talent for something. just like my son if he has a 60mph fastball at age 8 i'm gonna take him to pitching clinics/camps


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

pcarpenter said:


> I'm new to Field Trials / Hunt Tests and appreciate all the knowledge and advice found in these forums. I'm currently waiting on a new pup and he will be the first I've owned that will receive professional training. He is a very well bred pup and we are excited to get him.
> 
> When I attempted to purchase my last dog, the breeder strongly resisted selling him to me because I wasn't in the field trial game. She finally relented and I'm happy she did. That pup was out of Yellowstone's TNT Explosion (Nitro) and he was everything one could ask for in a dog. Although he lived in the house with the family, he got TONS of exercise and plenty of love and affection. In return he gave us everything he had right until the end.
> 
> ...


Personal preference comes into play here. 

I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that a dog in scenario A (for example in a family home evironment) is healthier, happier, better cared-for, or in a better quality of life than a dog in scenario B (on a pro's truck). 

Finding the right dog is kind of like finding the right spouse or the right career choice. It is personal preference, it is chance, it is luck, it is destiny....it's all of that stuff.

There will never be a "one size fits all". 

We don't have to embrace the way others do it. But we can accept or tolerate the way others do it. If you find a breeder who doesn't support the way you want to do it, move on. 

Mick Jagger might say "Breeders are like streetcars...they come and go". If you find a breeder who doesn't like what you offer as a buyer, guess what - YOU are the customer. You have control over where you look and where you buy.

No worries.


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

If Coach Saban was the most successful Pop Warner coach of all time and his players loved him and went on to lead happy, productive lives is that of less value than running a successful business (ie, coaching a Top 10 Div 1 sport)?

I certainly agree, FT bred dogs are not for a normal family. However, your comment about "bragging rights ... generating more money" kind of makes my point. To some this is a business first. 

I respect your opinion (honestly). I'm new here and to Field Trials. I honestly want to know what people think and to gain more insight.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

As a breeder I turn down a lot of pet homes simply because they are not prepared for the energy level or the need to work that my dogs have. My dogs are great house dogs, but they need tons of exercise--and that doesn't mean left out in the back yard to entertain themselves or to run with another dog unsupervised (spelled "trouble" ). They need supervised, directed exercise.

I will place pups in a pet home if I am confident they are active enough and prepared for the emotional and physical needs of a pup that needs a job. 

When the pups i place in hunting, obedience or hunt test homes earn titles and are successful in their performance activities, that is great! And yes, I will post a note on my website as a little brag for the owner and for me.

Meredith


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

pcarpenter said:


> I certainly agree, FT bred dogs are not for a normal family. However, your comment about "bragging rights ... generating more money" kind of makes my point. To some this is a business first.


I think you are 100% wrong there. If it is, it is a lousy business. Frankly, you can make more profit picking up cans on the side of the road than you can breeding FT dogs. Sure you might bring in $20k from a nice large litter of FT puppies but that is before stud fees, vet stuff and doesn't include any issues that can come up which can eat the rest away quickly. It also doesn't include the years of work the breeders put in developing their lines, researching pedigrees, discussing which studs would be a good fit, travel, etc. Not to mention all the work and training putting the title on the bitch.

I think the reason that these breeders want to place these puppies in FT homes is that the only external validation that all the work was worth it is how the puppies perform. They may be excellent in every way but if they never run a FT, they will never be an FC.

That is not to say that there are not excellent homes that don't run any FTs or doggie games. Of course there are, but I completely understand if someone wants to place their dogs in a FT home. Heck, I understand if a breeder wouldn't consider us a good enough FT home for their pups. It is the way it goes. It is easy enough to find one who doesn't worry about it, so keep looking.


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## highflyer82 (Aug 27, 2013)

Well I have a 30 dollar rescue dog and its the best dang house dog you could want. And I have a 1800 dollar 5 month old fc afc x MH that is the worse house dog Ive ever seen but damn good in the field. Like others have said be prepared they are all go 100 percent of the time expecially when they are little. I couldnt imagine owning a field dog just for a pet too much energy. Some one well sell you one, you just have to keep asking


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Would you go to a Kentucky Racehorse breeder for a kid friendly family nag? Would you buy a '69 camaro with a 427 big block that gets 8 mpg for your daily work vehicle? (OK, I might on that one  ). It is about matching the needs/desires/ability of the dog with the owner. FT breeders are just that. FT breeders. They are not pet breeders, or weekend warrior hunting breeders. Their goal is to produce the best FT puppy. In order to do that, they must invest a ton of money, time, and luck into each and every breeding. In order to recoup a fraction of that cost, they must advertise the high qualities of their litter- and since the proof is in the pudding- they do that by producing winners. Can't produce a winner if it is sitting in someones backyard.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

DoubleHaul said:


> I think you are 100% wrong there. If it is, it is a lousy business. Frankly, you can make more profit picking up cans on the side of the road than you can breeding FT dogs. *Sure you might bring in $20k from a nice large litter of FT puppies* but that is before stud fees, vet stuff and doesn't include any issues that can come up which can eat the rest away quickly. It also doesn't include the years of work the breeders put in developing their lines, researching pedigrees, discussing which studs would be a good fit, travel, etc. Not to mention all the work and training putting the title on the bitch.
> 
> I think the reason that these breeders want to place these puppies in FT homes is that the only external validation that all the work was worth it is how the puppies perform. They may be excellent in every way but if they never run a FT, they will never be an FC.
> 
> That is not to say that there are not excellent homes that don't run any FTs or doggie games. Of course there are, but I completely understand if someone wants to place their dogs in a FT home. Heck, I understand if a breeder wouldn't consider us a good enough FT home for their pups. It is the way it goes. It is easy enough to find one who doesn't worry about it, so keep looking.


Or you could end up like me. That dog Peerless in my signature line was a singleton, the other two pups died before the c-section was performed. I started adding up how much she cost me and I quit adding after I got over $3000. I decided I didn't want to know. Thank God at about 21 months she looks like she'll be a very good field trial dog. She is good enough that I'm thinking about breeding her if she passes all her clearances. I would like to keep a puppy and see if any field trailers would have some. Who knows, there are a lot of well bred puppies to choose from... Unless some go to competition I'd have no idea what she produces... That being said, when I bred Raven I took a couple deposits from a couple of hard core hunters here in South Dakota. I wouldn't have any problem selling a high powered dog to someone like that.



highflyer82 said:


> Well I have a 30 dollar rescue dog and its the best dang house dog you could want. And I have a 1800 dollar 5 month old fc afc x MH that is the worse house dog Ive ever seen but damn good in the field. *Like others have said be prepared they are all go 100 percent of the time expecially when they are little.* I couldnt imagine owning a field dog just for a pet too much energy. Some one well sell you one, you just have to keep asking


I won't deny that what you say there is a possibility. But I have Mick in my office with me right now. He's just laying on the floor relaxing since noon today. Peerless is the highest powered dog in the field that I've ever seen. Bring her in the house and you won't hear a peep from her. She'll just curl up next to or behind my recliner and go to sleep. VERY nice around the house.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

two ways to look at the situation

from the breeders standpoint:

1. They reserve the right to sell to anyone of their choice

2. They are protecting the reputation of their kennel as well as the reputation of the stud dog since there are only so few chances to breed a female in their lifetime and the costs involved are higher than most anticipate

3. They are guarding against real possibility that "things" dont work out and you end up selling the dog to just anyone, or the dog gets returned to them but unsellable or unable to rehome

4. They are being responsible breeders and have their best intentions for "their puppies", its hard enough as it is to let them go


from a buyer standpoint

1. prove to the breeder you are worthy of having one of their puppies by having a known FT/HT person vouch for you

2. its no different than trying to join an exclusive country club, if you are a member, you dont want just anyone buying their way into a membership

3. try and establish a personal relationship with the breeder so they become familiar with you,like interviewing for a new job, prove to them by your attitude and actions that you are worthy of their little ones

4. show them stability in your life, that you own a home with a fenced in yard and maybe a kennel run in place,and that you dont work 16 hours a day six days a week 


Dog games are not for everyone,doesnt mean you dont "deserve" to have one of their pups, dont take it personal, if they dont want to sell to you ,walk away and go after another quality litter...

I have told this story before but its kind of funny: years ago after a long absence from the circuit my brother was looking to get back into the FT game so he visited a trial held near his home along with his wife. A well known owner of a National winner was showing off pups sired by his dog out of the back of his vehicle, so my brother walks up and ask "how much are you asking for the pups"...the man replied "they are expensive and you probably cant afford one", my brother was shocked and somewhat offended until his wife reminded him that the man or very few knew who he was or what he does for a living..When that man later found out who he was, he apologized for pre judging him and assuming he was neither qualified to afford or own one of his pups...my brother's response was "I probably cant afford one of your pups" and walked away


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## Greg Heier (Jan 3, 2009)

Too many variables to say whether a "field trial" dog or a "family dog" raised in the circumstances you describe has a better life. My opinion, however, is that it is perfectly within the breeder's rights to inquire into the buyer's intention to run the dog in field trials or other competitions and to place the dogs in those homes where the dog will most likely be backed by the resources and training to be campaigned. Others may not share this opinion but, frankly, it is the opinion of the breeder not the buyer that matters as the breeder owns the pups and has the right to sell to the person of his or her choosing and for the reasons he or she chooses.


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

pcarpenter, look at it this way. Scroll ahead 4 years. You get your pup, you send it off to a pro, he says this is one of the best dogs I've ever seen. 

You get it trained and decide to "dabble" in Field trials. You win the first one you enter. You really get hooked and keep going. You make the derby list, win a Qual and move on to the AA stakes. You get a couple places then a win.

People notice you and "wonderdog." People approach you about getting a pup if you ever breed her. You get enough interest and decide to breed her. It'll probably be a one time thing, 1 litter. You've spent a lot of money and 100% of your free time to date.

Someone from the next town over hears about your pups and wants one "just for a pet." 

Who do you want the pups to go to???


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## Karen Klotthor (Jul 21, 2011)

If you want a good pup, look down the list a little and get a Hunt Test pup instead of a field trial pup. Not a lot difference, but pup will cost a few hundred less. Never doubt a hunt test pup can do any job you want it to and also be a great house dog.


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## highflyer82 (Aug 27, 2013)

Buzz said:


> Or you could end up like me. That dog Peerless in my signature line was a singleton, the other two pups died before the c-section was performed. I started adding up how much she cost me and I quit adding after I got over $3000. I decided I didn't want to know. Thank God at about 21 months she looks like she'll be a very good field trial dog. She is good enough that I'm thinking about breeding her if she passes all her clearances. I would like to keep a puppy and see if any field trailers would have some. Who knows, there are a lot of well bred puppies to choose from... Unless some go to competition I'd have no idea what she produces... That being said, when I bred Raven I took a couple deposits from a couple of hard core hunters here in South Dakota. I wouldn't have any problem selling a high powered dog to someone like that.
> 
> 
> 
> I won't deny that what you say there is a possibility. But I have Mick in my office with me right now. He's just laying on the floor relaxing since noon today. Peerless is the highest powered dog in the field that I've ever seen. Bring her in the house and you won't hear a peep from her. She'll just curl up next to or behind my recliner and go to sleep. VERY nice around the house.


Totally agree it depends on the dog. But I was just advising him it could be a possibility. Most my other dogs have been well behaved in the house and it always gets better with age.


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## jkern (May 11, 2013)

blake_mhoona said:


> to take such a dog and just make it a hunting dog is like saying nick saban should of been a pee-wee coach, or tiger woods a local country club pro. they have so much potential they owe it to themselves to be the best. to have it be a house dog would be like saying nick saban should of been a psychologist or tiger a (muscle) rehab therapist


If you were to look to acquire "just a hunting dog" - where would you want it to come from? What you you want in a pedigree?
I would bet that 90% of the pups from FT litters become "just a hunting dog" and I bet most are or can be pretty good dogs.


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## Scott Cmelik (Dec 15, 2004)

Buzz said:


> Or you could end up like me. That dog Peerless in my signature line was a singleton, the other two pups died before the c-section was performed. I started adding up how much she cost me and I quit adding after I got over $3000. I decided I didn't want to know. Thank God at about 21 months she looks like she'll be a very good field trial dog. She is good enough that I'm thinking about breeding her if she passes all her clearances. I would like to keep a puppy and see if any field trailers would have some. Who knows, there are a lot of well bred puppies to choose from... Unless some go to competition I'd have no idea what she produces... That being said, when I bred Raven I took a couple deposits from a couple of hard core hunters here in South Dakota. I wouldn't have any problem selling a high powered dog to someone like that.
> 
> 
> 
> I won't deny that what you say there is a possibility. But I have Mick in my office with me right now. He's just laying on the floor relaxing since noon today. Peerless is the highest powered dog in the field that I've ever seen. Bring her in the house and you won't hear a peep from her. She'll just curl up next to or behind my recliner and go to sleep. VERY nice around the house.



Dang Dave I should have had you take Mia while I have been gone. Maybe you could have gotten her to lay down and go to sleep in the house. HAHA.

Sorry back to your regularly scheduled programming


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Scott Cmelik said:


> Dang Dave I should have had you take Mia while I have been gone. Maybe you could have gotten her to lay down and go to sleep in the house. HAHA.
> 
> Sorry back to your regularly scheduled programming


That would likely require medication!


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## Scott Cmelik (Dec 15, 2004)

Buzz said:


> That would likely require medication!


Nah just a baseball bat to the head.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Life "on the truck" is a hard life for dogs. 
To arrive at this, I wouldn't compare it to the life of a common house pet, I'd compare it to life with the accompanying 24/7 interaction of the dogs of a retired two or three dog A list amature who trains and campaigns their own uncommon house pets all year............

Were I selling a litter, I would factor this into my decisions about placement 

john


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## blackasmollases (Mar 26, 2012)

john fallon said:


> Life "on the truck" is a hard life for dogs.
> To arrive at this, I wouldn't compare it to the life of a common house pet, I'd compare it to life with the accompanying 24/7 interaction of the dogs of a retired two or three dog A list amature who trains and campaigns their own uncommon house pets all year............
> 
> Were I selling a litter, I would factor this into my decisions about placement
> ...




I'm. Very new to all this but I believe it is harder on the owner than the dog. After numerous visits and seeing the dog jump in the truck like it was the best place in the world. And then almost jump through the collar when it was his turn, makes me realize I'm doing the right thing. Every dog is different though.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

pcarpenter said:


> If Coach Saban was the most successful Pop Warner coach of all time and his players loved him and went on to lead happy, productive lives is that of less value than running a successful business (ie, coaching a Top 10 Div 1 sport)?
> 
> I certainly agree, FT bred dogs are not for a normal family. However, your comment about "bragging rights ... generating more money" kind of makes my point. To some this is a business first.
> 
> I respect your opinion (honestly). I'm new here and to Field Trials. I honestly want to know what people think and to gain more insight.


I am a hard core field trailer, have two all age dogs right now, I train hard and run a lot of trials, but my dogs live in the house, sleep on the bed and are hunted every year from October to January. My dogs through their competitive life spend months at a time with a pro, especially during the winter when I cant train or run them up here in Montana. Many amateurs I know train year around, travel from trial to trial with their travel trailer and dogs like a nomad, I think the dogs they own believe they died and went to heaven, the get to work every day doing what they love and they get to live with mom and dad.

I think breeders want the best for their dogs, but they want the dog to be trained and campaigned by a serious amateur, someone with knowledge and resources to give the dog a great life and a good shot at being successful in the field trial game. That doesn't mean they want their pups to go live on a pro truck their whole life.

John


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

john fallon said:


> Life "on the truck" is a hard life for dogs


This was my point. I think most of you missed the question I asked. Who has a better life, a dog from FT stock that is trained, lives with a family and swims/runs/retrieves every day (ie, what they want to do) or a FT dog that competes in high stakes. I'm honestly curious. 

I'm not making a statement about any breeder's decision where he places his pups. That's his/her perogative. I simply stated SOME want their dogs to compete to further their Kennel (ie, build their business). I've had two FT dogs that lived with the family and hunted with me - high powered dogs that got plenty of exercise, attention and love. These dogs didn't get the breeder any bragging rights but they were happy pups that lived great lives


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## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

IMO dogs that spend a few months of the year with a pro are having an acceptable quality of life, that may result in an exceptional quality of life for the handler/owner & dog, later in the year. I think the dogs on Pro trucks are happy. Their performance would be the greatest measure. The dog that doesn't go to a pro, but enjoys the same quality FT training & career, while being a part of the family, is to me, the best life of all. 
The worst life is the one that gets left in a back yard kennel until hunting season, and then goes wild.


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## Russ (Jan 3, 2003)

Field trial oriented breeders are breeding for field trial success. Trialers tend to be goal oriented. Their number one goal in breeding is producing competitive field trial dogs, not putting a dog in the very happiest home possible. 

In the past we have had dogs on pro trucks and they seemed very happy. They bonded with the pro, loved their work and socialized with other dogs in their small airing groups. The dogs with good pros run with their tails up and enjoy their lives.

Like John, our dogs run all age stakes and live in the house. The working dogs spend most of their time sleeping when not working. A field trial training schedule keeps them tired out but they still get excited about getting out to train five or six days a week.


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

I will add a little perspective to the quality of life theory.

My Young dog, Star, is in training in Texas... (a long way from Colorado) with the breeder of her litter. We have owned high drive dogs before, and know how to work and use them so that they are happy.

We got star as an 8week old pup and had her thru 6.5 months. She was doing great at our little puppy school.. waiting to be sent on her name, and doing some pretty long weater and land retrieves. at 6.5 months, we hauled her back to Texas.

My little princess who slept on my side of the bed, and had to be woken up each morning, telling her to GET OUT OF BED!

When we delivered her to the trainer, it was heartbreaking.. she was MY girl, and I fell apart leaving her... poor Star.. she would miss her bed, and her trips to the barn, and out to the lakes for her play time.

We waited 3 months before we scheduled a visit. She was happy as a clam to see us.. Genuinley knew who we were.

But she had changed... The trainer let her stay with us in bed during our visit... but instead of wanting to cuddle each morning... she knew it was time to go to work.. She beat us awake, and was looking out the window as if to say "Lets go! Another day of School YEA!" 

We have visited a few times, and she definitley LOVES us.. but the trainer is her BEST FRIEND and mentor. She lives to get on that dang dog truck each morning. 

While it initially burst my bubble that she wanted to go find Dan, instead of cuddling with me.. The realization that she is truly happy in her training life makes it alright with me.

No she does not have a couch, and she acts like all the other crazy fools barking and acting out in a kennel... but she is in her element...

So Where I am going with all of this... Is that I dont think, in the mind of a good student in training... that the kennel/training lifestyle is all that awful!


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

If you don't open the door fast enough, my dog will jump onto the dog trailer. When people say "lives on the truck", really- how many dogs truly LIVE in the truck, only taken out to air and train? All the pros that I know kennel the dogs starting at 6pm where they can stretch, relax, eat and drink, and sleep until they are aired and put on the truck at @ 6:00am. That's twelve hours NOT on a truck right there. Add the time when they are staked out, UNDER the truck or trailer, airing, roading, or training, they spend less time ON the truck then I do sitting in the office. 
At least they are doing it for fun!!!!


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

firehouselabs said:


> If you don't open the door fast enough, my dog will jump onto the dog trailer. When people say "lives on the truck", really- how many dogs truly LIVE in the truck, only taken out to air and train? All the pros that I know kennel the dogs starting at 6pm where they can stretch, relax, eat and drink, and sleep until they are aired and put on the truck at @ 6:00am. That's twelve hours NOT on a truck right there. Add the time when they are staked out, UNDER the truck or trailer, airing, roading, or training, they spend less time ON the truck then I do sitting in the office.
> At least they are doing it for fun!!!!


I have one that as long as it is not too hot would prefer to spend his day in the dog truck. He will bug you until you put him in his hole and then stay there all day, much happier than in the house, until he decides it is about time for dinner.


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## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

pcarpenter said:


> This was my point. I think most of you missed the question I asked. *Who has a better life, a dog from FT stock that is trained, lives with a family and swims/runs/retrieves every day (ie, what they want to do) or a FT dog that competes in high stakes*. I'm honestly curious.


I think that there is a fundamental flaw in your question. This is not an either/or situation. 

There are dogs that are never trained, and are left in the back yard, with little family interaction.

There are dogs that are trained minimally, lives with a family and are ignored most of the time except during hunting season.

There are dogs that are trained, live with a family and swim/run/retrieve every day AND compete in trials or hunt tests. 

There are dogs that spend a few months or years with a pro and then come home to a family, and are trained and trial/tested from then on by the amatuer

There are dogs that spend half the year with a pro, and half a year at home with a family, running trials or hunt tests both with the pro and with the amatuer.

There are dogs with pros, that spend half a year on the truck, and half a year with a kennel every night, because the pro travels south/north.

There are dogs with pros, that just train and run trials/tests, and never see an "owner", just the pro trainer.

This does not even go into the wide range of treatment/interaction that a dog can receive whether it is with a pro, or with an amatuer trainer or with a family.

I think there is no way to really answer your question of which has the best life, because there is too large a spectrum of circumstances. I think that at least some breeders ask a multitude of questions, trying to make sure that their dogs end up in the kind of home they want their dogs to be in. Some are more concerned about 'Performance homes' some are more interested in 'Active homes', some in 'caring homes'


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

Well stated BBnumber1.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Mark Sehon said:


> Well stated BBnumber1.


Yep, he nailed it...


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

My biggest deciding factor when I placed my recent litter was.....If it was going to be a caring "forever" home. Didn't want my pups treated like a commodity that was traded and sold often. Think everyone that has one of the "Karma" pups is exactly that.


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

pcarpenter said:


> If Coach Saban was the most successful Pop Warner coach of all time and his players loved him and went on to lead happy, productive lives is that of less value than running a successful business (ie, coaching a Top 10 Div 1 sport)?
> 
> I certainly agree, FT bred dogs are not for a normal family. However, your comment about "bragging rights ... generating more money" kind of makes my point. To some this is a business first.
> 
> I respect your opinion (honestly). I'm new here and to Field Trials. I honestly want to know what people think and to gain more insight.


It's in our human nature to try to re-invent the wheel. It is a business, but most breeders are ultimately trying to better the (thier) breed. A couch dog does nothing for proving that. Its not only FT dogs that are like this. Many high bred HT dog's are WAY to much for average house pets. All this is generalization but, it's a high percentage one. You will have to think about the big picture and not just your home, which I'm sure would be a great one.


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

I think I might have to jump in on this thread.. When I made pups with Darla and Copper in 2007, I sold them all to hunting homes.. I didn't care if they trialed or not. One puppy though, I am sad to report, went to a home that turned out to be a sort of puppy producing place. She later was sold or placed in a hunting home.. I didn't do enough research on that person.. One of my pups lived lots and lots of days on a hunting guide boat as a bird retrieving machine. I have another one who lives on the Kenai River and catches her own fish.. One of my pups lives at a hunting home, but when he isn't doing his job, I hear he is a hideous pain in the ass, as he has no direction...

Now that I am breeding Spanky soon, I am going to be looking first at trialing homes, hunt test homes, etc.. But will also be looking at anyone who honestly will give a pup a sweet home with lots to do.. If I sell a couple to people who use pro's, then I am pretty sure they will be worked, and taken care of.. 

Both my girls are trialing dogs, hunting dogs, run-around-idiots, who sleep on the bed, love to play chuck-it, howl for treats, and keep the couch warm.. That's what sort of home I hope I find for my pups..


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## DonBrou (Nov 14, 2012)

I can tell you from personal experience that these high energy bred dogs need a lot of attention and work or you'll pay a big price. About 15 years ago I had a Vedges Big Boy pup and a Dirt Road Sport pup. Both high energy dogs. Well, at the time I was wanting to get into the HT game and was going to do the training myself. I bought a few books and started training with my brother-in-law that had a HRCH and all was going well. Ran a couple started tests and then a few seasoned passes. Got a management position with acompany starting up an office in Baton Rouge so I had to give up the 40 hour week to get the company kicked off and that took 60-70 hours a week. Well, guess what took priority. To make a long story short, I had to replace the siding on the back of the house for as far up as they could reach. I was having to buy bark collars at a rate of 4 a year because they would chew them off of each other and then destroy them. They knocked over furniture, scratched wood floors and whatever else they could get into. They finally calmed down a little at 4 years old but were still high energy. They both passed away at 13 1/2years old and were some of the most loyal dogs I had ever had. When we decided to get into the game again I made sure I was going to have the time to devote to them and the funds to do it right. The 2 Ali pups I have now get worked every weekend and in the evenings on weekdays when it's not too hot. They spent 13 months with a pro. The on/off switch works great. They're running hunt tests and doing it right. In a nutshell, if you get one of these high energy dogs, be prepared to spend the time and money to do it right or it'll cost you dearly. Trust me,I know first hand.


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

DonBrou said:


> if you get one of these high energy dogs, be prepared to spend the time and money to do it right or it'll cost you dearly. Trust me,I know first hand.


Again, this new dog will spend time with a pro. Also, I stated I've owned two other high powered FT dogs and I understand such dogs are not for everyone. I'm fully aware they need to be run daily or they will devote that energy toward destructive pursuits. 

When I say "on a pro truck", I don't literally mean on the truck. I mean living full time in a kennel and competing/training year round. 

I appreciate all the comments here. I agree that perhaps my question is too general and there are varying degrees of lifestyles for these dogs. Thanks again


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## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

pcarpenter said:


> I appreciate all the comments here. I agree that perhaps my question is too general and there are varying degrees of lifestyles for these dogs. Thanks again



pcarpenter, it sounds like you know what is involved with owning one of these dogs. I do agree that some breeders are looking to place dogs in competititve homes. Competitive does not necessarily mean that the dogs will be put with a pro. In some cases, it means placed wit a successful amatuer that trains their own dogs. They are just looking for people who will showcase their lines abilities.


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

BBnumber1 said:


> I think that there is a fundamental flaw in your question. This is not an either/or situation.
> 
> There are dogs that are never trained, and are left in the back yard, with little family interaction.
> 
> ...


This is the gold standard answer. That said, the last paragraph sums it up. There are pros that are in this because of a passion and because they have a gift to get the most out of a dog and not make a myriad of excuses-whether it's their inability to communicate with a dog or a dog that simply doesn't have "it" and should just go home. Sadly, there are plenty who just hang out a shingle.

I'm sure there are dogs out there bonded to the good pros and enjoying a good life doing what they were bred to do and respected in the process. LOTS of truly great amateur trainers (albeit money and circumstances are a plus) who give their dogs the best of worlds. Sadly, there are just as many square pegs in round holes filling a hole in a pro truck who would be much happier living a life with someone who appreciated them as more than a commodity.

If this sounds too touch feely-so be it, but I think it should be a dog's birthright to be appreciated at the end of the day. Ask them to do what they are capable of and don't expect more than that.

M


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally Posted by pcarpenter
> This was my point. I think most of you missed the question I asked. Who has a better life, a dog from FT stock that is trained, lives with a family and swims/runs/retrieves every day (ie, what they want to do) or a FT dog that competes in high stakes. I'm honestly curious.



With 24 dogs in training, if the pro never sleeps they would have 1 hr per day per dog . Realistically it is more like 12 hr days with 1/2 hr per day per dog. 
Add in some (2)help at 1/2 hr each per dog and you are now up to 1 1/2 MH hrs per day per dog to. Air the dog, wash down the kennel, load up, pick up the airing yard, drive to the training grounds, set up the ''setup", run the setup, set up and run another, run a few blinds, feed and air the dogs, drive back to the kennel , unload.........

While you aren't doing anything, you can cook, eat, clean up the kitchen, go to the vet, catch feed and water the fliers, pick up or drop off a few dogs at the air port. ,try to get a few bitches bred, clean the truck, clean the house,do your laundry, grocery shop etc,etc,etc.........

I went on enough winter trips to know..... There just is not enough hours in the day for much "1 on 1" ( touch feely)with the dogs


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

And here is what happens in the average day to day life of a family dog: 
Alarms go off, people running around getting ready to go to work, school, daycare, church, what have you. People starting talking louder as they rush to shower, shave, the other "s" word, get dressed, get others dressed, fix breakfast, do last minute homework, fix lunches, find a new outfit because someone spilled syrup on you, find car keys, backpacks, books, phones, etc..
All the while poor fido is looking for attention, food, and needing to go to the bathroom. He is being told to go lay down, get out of the way, others are trying to sneak him food under the table so he is now under foot again. If he is lucky, he gets banished to the back yard, "finally! I get to pee!". If he is REALLY lucky, someone on the way out will remember to let him back in, and maybe throw him some kibble and refill his bowl. Of course if that is the responsibility of the one of the teenagers who is out for three different sports, or the one with the brand new boyfriend that she is trying to impress- and after all, dog hair and slobber are NOT cool- then that just might get left off their "things to do" list. 
During the day, fido will either: a) lounge in the yard b) lounge in the crate in the house c) lounge in kennel in the yard or d) lounge on the furniture in house, for which he may or may not have privileges. That day could be 8 hours, but most likely closer to 11 depending on where owners work, traffic, how many other stops they make on the way home, etc.. Once they get home, it's homework time, supper time, and for half the year, its dark outside. If the kids have sports and practices, its even later for most of the family, if not all of them. Next comes bath time, a favorite tv show, and by golly its already 10:00pm and time for the news, weather, and bed! 
But hey, the weekend is free, right? Depends on how good your wife is with chores, housecleaning, and laundry. And if you are the one having to do this by your self, you know that the little fairies don't come nearly as often to do it in real life, unlike all those cute little stories. Then there is that pesky lawn that keeps growing, leaves that need raked, that leaky roof, banging shutter, the strange noise that your car is making, your 3rd cousin twice removed's wedding that your spouse/mother is making you go to, and then your beer drinking buddies come over with an invite for a game of poker, BBQ, or you wife decides that you owe her and the kids some quality time at a flea market, not to mention that basketball game that your star son is playing in an hour and a half up the road. 

Life is busy. Dogs, by their patient and loving manner, often get left behind in the shuffle. They go about their day, trying to garner some affection and attention, but until or unless they implode into a quivering, barking, bouncing off the walls, destructive beast, they rarely get all that they need or deserve. I am talking about those dogs that are very low key, laid back animals. Put a FT bred to the hilt working dog into a situation evenly remotely like this, and you will make that dog a neurotic mess. 

Given the choice of laying on the couch and getting her belly rubbed for two hours while I am watching a movie, and 2 or 3 hours a week training or spending as totally "dog time", or being able to spend 6 out of 7 days a week in the field training for that same amount of time a day (I use a smaller business trainer, only takes on 6 dogs)? My dog will rocket off that couch to plow over the trainer at the door and will be doing the happy dance in front of "her" box on the trailer, if she isn't already riding on top of it. 
My dog loves me....but she LOVES her trainer. And since I am paying him to bring out the very best of her FT breeding, that is the way it should be. If I should breed her down the road, I want her pups to have the same opportunity, which means that the best buyers would be those that are already well established in the hunt test/field trial game with either the talent or the money to bring out those same qualities in the pup that they get.


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Well said Firehouse Labs..... And I think another aspect, is being big enough to recognize what makes your dog happy. I get criticized at my office from coworkers who could never send off their loved dogs.....I don't think they realize how much I love my dog to put her thru training!......


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## Rnd (Jan 21, 2012)

Thank you Firehouse!!! Somebody needed to say it. My dogs love their winters with the trainer ANDall their k-9 buddies. They get work six days a week and birds every day......Sorry not many Am's can do that on a regular basis.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

firehouselabs said:


> And here is what happens in the average day to day life of a family dog:
> Alarms go off, people running around getting ready to go to work, school, daycare, church, what have you. People starting talking louder as they rush to shower, shave, the other "s" word, get dressed, get others dressed, fix breakfast, do last minute homework, fix lunches, find a new outfit because someone spilled syrup on you, find car keys, backpacks, books, phones, etc..
> All the while poor fido is looking for attention, food, and needing to go to the bathroom. He is being told to go lay down, get out of the way, others are trying to sneak him food under the table so he is now under foot again. If he is lucky, he gets banished to the back yard, "finally! I get to pee!". If he is REALLY lucky, someone on the way out will remember to let him back in, and maybe throw him some kibble and refill his bowl. Of course if that is the responsibility of the one of the teenagers who is out for three different sports, or the one with the brand new boyfriend that she is trying to impress- and after all, dog hair and slobber are NOT cool- then that just might get left off their "things to do" list.
> During the day, fido will either: a) lounge in the yard b) lounge in the crate in the house c) lounge in kennel in the yard or d) lounge on the furniture in house, for which he may or may not have privileges. That day could be 8 hours, but most likely closer to 11 depending on where owners work, traffic, how many other stops they make on the way home, etc.. Once they get home, it's homework time, supper time, and for half the year, its dark outside. If the kids have sports and practices, its even later for most of the family, if not all of them. Next comes bath time, a favorite tv show, and by golly its already 10:00pm and time for the news, weather, and bed!
> ...


Apples and oranges. See my first post on this thread for what I feel is a proper lifestyle comparison.

BTW, as I indicated in my last post on this thread....."Six days in the field "... 12 sets of marks and 12 blinds, or maybe a drill or two one day insted of one or the other ? On an AA Pros truck that would equate to about the same 3 maybe 4 hours.

Add another 10 or 12 hours over the six days being staked out and that still leaves a lot of truck time.

john


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

john fallon said:


> With 24 dogs in training, if the pro never sleeps they would have 1 hr per day per dog . Realistically it is more like 12 hr days with 1/2 hr per day per dog.
> Add in some (2)help at 1/2 hr each per dog and you are now up to 1 1/2 MH hrs per day per dog to. Air the dog, wash down the kennel, load up, pick up the airing yard, drive to the training grounds, set up the ''setup", run the setup, set up and run another, run a few blinds, feed and air the dogs, drive back to the kennel , unload.........
> 
> While you aren't doing anything, you can cook, eat, clean up the kitchen, go to the vet, catch feed and water the fliers, pick up or drop off a few dogs at the air port. ,try to get a few bitches bred, clean the truck, clean the house,do your laundry, grocery shop etc,etc,etc.........
> ...



Sadly, you've made my case


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

firehouselabs said:


> And here is what happens in the average day to day life of a family dog:
> Alarms go off, people running around getting ready to go to work, school, daycare, church, what have you. People starting talking louder as they rush to shower, shave, the other "s" word, get dressed, get others dressed, fix breakfast, do last minute homework, fix lunches, find a new outfit because someone spilled syrup on you, find car keys, backpacks, books, phones, etc..
> All the while poor fido is looking for attention, food, and needing to go to the bathroom. He is being told to go lay down, get out of the way, others are trying to sneak him food under the table so he is now under foot again. If he is lucky, he gets banished to the back yard, "finally! I get to pee!". If he is REALLY lucky, someone on the way out will remember to let him back in, and maybe throw him some kibble and refill his bowl. Of course if that is the responsibility of the one of the teenagers who is out for three different sports, or the one with the brand new boyfriend that she is trying to impress- and after all, dog hair and slobber are NOT cool- then that just might get left off their "things to do" list.
> During the day, fido will either: a) lounge in the yard b) lounge in the crate in the house c) lounge in kennel in the yard or d) lounge on the furniture in house, for which he may or may not have privileges. That day could be 8 hours, but most likely closer to 11 depending on where owners work, traffic, how many other stops they make on the way home, etc.. Once they get home, it's homework time, supper time, and for half the year, its dark outside. If the kids have sports and practices, its even later for most of the family, if not all of them. Next comes bath time, a favorite tv show, and by golly its already 10:00pm and time for the news, weather, and bed!
> ...



I'm extremely confident the type of home you describe above isn't interested in purchasing a $1,500 - $2,500 FT dog. I also stated that my dogs hunt and were able to run, swim and retrieve daily. If you spent 20 hrs a day in a kennel you'd love to spend time with your trainer also. As a result, I find your post largely irrelevant to the original question.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

pcarpenter said:


> During this recent search, I had two breeders refuse to sell me a pup because I was unsure if I would place him in FT or HT at the time. One stated, "placing such a well bred dog with a family is a waste of genetics". That was his attitude even though I live on the water and our dogs run/swim/retrieve EVERY day. While I understand breeding dogs is a business to some, I think they have forgotten that "quality of life" is a concept that applies to our four legged friends as well.
> 
> I expressed the above to a successful Field trialer recently. He responded by saying my dog likely had a better life than many many FT dogs. What do you think?



I think this is just another "values" debate, about which there can be no answer.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

firehouselabs said:


> . It is about matching the needs/desires/ability of the dog with the owner. FT breeders are just that. FT breeders. They are not pet breeders, or weekend warrior hunting breeders. Their goal is to produce the best FT puppy. In order to do that, they must invest a ton of money, time, and luck into each and every breeding. In order to recoup a fraction of that cost, they must advertise the high qualities of their litter- and since the proof is in the pudding- they do that by producing winners. Can't produce a winner if it is sitting in someones backyard.


Excellent post. Deserves repeating.


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

pcarpenter said:


> I'm extremely confident the type of home you describe above isn't interested in purchasing a $1,500 - $2,500 FT dog. I also stated that my dogs hunt and were able to run, swim and retrieve daily. If you spent 20 hrs a day in a kennel you'd love to spend time with your trainer also. As a result, I find your post largely irrelevant to the original question.


So, the next question is, would that $1500-$2500 FT dog make you any better of a house/hunt/play dog than an $500-$1500 dog?


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Duckquilizer said:


> So, the next question is, would that $1500-$2500 FT dog make you any better of a house/hunt/play dog than an $500-$1500 dog?


I've owned two FT dogs and one "normal" Labrador. The FT dogs had far more drive and were more intelligent. They fit my lifestyle better than a normal house pet. Not sure exactly what your point is. I'm not against FT in any way. As I stated, I plan to place this new pup with a pro for part of the yr. I simply asked which environment was the most rewarding for the dog. I'm not judging anyone.

However, I do have a strong opinion about the dog who is shuttled between trainers, spends his life in a kennel and is used solely for competing in trials. Fortunately, I think that type of situation is the exception


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

I don't agree at all. No matter how well bred they can make excellent house dogs. I own dogs out of AFC Ready, Shaq, Ford and Ali. Some of them make better house dogs than working dogs. They will all sleep in the bed and cause zero trouble although the oldest has been a work in progress. My question to you would be what do you have to base your opinion on? How many of these said dogs do you have experience with?I haven't had many but I've yet to find one that isint a good pet.


Duckquilizer said:


> It's in our human nature to try to re-invent the wheel. It is a business, but most breeders are ultimately trying to better the (thier) breed. A couch dog does nothing for proving that. Its not only FT dogs that are like this. Many high bred HT dog's are WAY to much for average house pets. All this is generalization but, it's a high percentage one. You will have to think about the big picture and not just your home, which I'm sure would be a great one.


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## T-bone (Jul 15, 2009)

I say buy the pup you want (if the breeder will sell it to you).

We've got a FT bred dog who is all go. Although he's injured at the moment he's done a good job at HTs, is one hell of a hunting dog, calmly attends lots of motorcycle races and has great hotel/house manners (out of the crate). He's the only one out of his litter living that kind of life and has adapted very well. 

Pretty sure he would've done well on a Pro's truck but we're happy he lives with us and he just has to settle for HTs over FTs. He doesn't care - a duck is a duck is a duck and he gets as excited for the first one of the day as he does for the last one of the day! I think dogs who get exercise and attention adapt to the situation they're in to a certain extent.

BTW - we've trained this dog ourselves with help from /Paul who helped us understand and deal with all the issues that come with a high powered FT breeding. Wouldn't change a thing


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## blind ambition (Oct 8, 2006)

As has been previously stated; unless you have succeeded in taking a pole from a good size sampling of dogs living in a variety of circumstances, you, me and everyone else is just expressing their own opinion not those of the dogs. 

You and John and even myself hold an opinion something like this from post 43:

"BTW, as I indicated in my last post on this thread....."Six days in the field "... 12 sets of marks and 12 blinds, or maybe a drill or two one day insted of one or the other ? On an AA Pros truck that would equate to about the same 3 maybe 4 hours.

Add another 10 or 12 hours over the six days being staked out and that still leaves a lot of truck time.

john "

But, I can also see that we may well have it wrong from the dogs' perspectives; dogs may find living in proximity to other bird crazy competitors exhilarating beyond our wildest imaginings, they may find that being in 24 training setups a week pale next to being in 24 _and_ listening to the loading and unloading of numerous other dogs to and from their truck, perhaps the vicarious thrill of hearing the same set up repeated throughout the day for their kennel mates raises their love of life to extremes you and I will never reach on our happiest day. 
It's all idle speculation without hearing from the dogs themselves.

However all is moot, in answer to the question you pose there is only one opinion which carries any merit, that being the one held by the vendor, shop around until you find a breeder who shares your view of what is best for their dog.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Knowing what truck, kennel, field trial circuit life is like from my experience owning 2, 3, 4 dogs max I feel so sorry for those poor dogs owned by those who never even scratch the dogs ear even once in their life. 
I recall when I got started there were 2 Lottie bitches I was fascinated with. When one died on the pros truck while on the road still running at around 12, I became aware of the sorry dark side of this business.


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## blackasmollases (Mar 26, 2012)

pcarpenter said:


> I'm extremely confident the type of home you describe above isn't interested in purchasing a $1,500 - $2,500 FT dog. I also stated that my dogs hunt and were able to run, swim and retrieve daily. If you spent 20 hrs a day in a kennel you'd love to spend time with your trainer also. As a result, I find your post largely irrelevant to the original question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Breck said:


> Knowing what truck, kennel, field trial circuit life is like from my experience owning 2, 3, 4 dogs max I feel so sorry for those poor dogs owned by those who never even scratch the dogs ear even once in their life.
> I recall when I got started there were 2 Lottie bitches I was fascinated with. When one died on the pros truck while on the road still running at around 12, I became aware of the sorry dark side of this business.


A similar story is what prompted me to ask the question. I assume it is the exception and not the norm.


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

blackasmollases said:


> Send your dog to the pro you have chosen then after a couple or few months go see them. Or pay for two holes and stay in one yourself.


That actually made me laugh but I take your point


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## Hilltop (Apr 10, 2005)

blind ambition said:


> But, I can also see that we may well have it wrong from the dogs' perspectives; dogs may find living in proximity to other bird crazy competitors exhilarating beyond our wildest imaginings, they may find that being in 24 training setups a week pale next to being in 24 _and_ listening to the loading and unloading of numerous other dogs to and from their truck, perhaps the vicarious thrill of hearing the same set up repeated throughout the day for their kennel mates raises their love of life to extremes you and I will never reach on our happiest day.
> It's all idle speculation without hearing from the dogs themselves.


This is one of the advantages having a dog on a pro truck. The field trial experience is more similar to the daily training regime. Very difficult for an amateur to simulate the trial experience unless a member of a large and dedicated training group.


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

Duckquilizer said:


> It's in our human nature to try to re-invent the wheel. It is a business, but *most FT breeders are ultimately trying to better the (thier) breed.* *A couch dog does nothing for proving that.* Its not only FT dogs that are like this. Many high bred HT dog's are WAY to much for average house pets. *All this is generalization but, it's a high percentage one.* You will have to think about the big picture and not just your home, which I'm sure would be a great one.





Justin Allen said:


> I don't agree at all. No matter how well bred they can make excellent house dogs. I own dogs out of AFC Ready, Shaq, Ford and Ali. Some of them make better house dogs than working dogs. They will all sleep in the bed and cause zero trouble although the oldest has been a work in progress. My question to you would be what do you have to base your opinion on? How many of these said dogs do you have experience with?I haven't had many but I've yet to find one that isint a good pet.


You are entitled to disagree, but this was my main point. And I never said they couldn't be good pets. The OP's questions/statements were related to why a breeder would not desire his/her high breed pups to go to a pet home. That is where my statements in blue come from.


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## vergy (Sep 8, 2006)

I'm sorry but I skipped a page or two due to time but...I understand the op's original question and see it a bit differently. Everyone wants notoriety or recognition for something. Common sense tells me that a breeder that won't sell you one of their high powered pups is decided for two reasons. 1. They want the sire/dam to get credit if pups do well and more importantly...no 2. THEY want credit. Want their name out their that they are the creators of the breeding etc. Lets not kid ourselves and deny this. I have no dog in this fight but you can't pizz down my back and tell me it's raining either. So..what about a breeder selling to me. I don't run any tests however I do train my dogs to a fairly high level but more important..I hunt a lot..probably much more than most on this site. So the pup would get to hunt and retrieve tons of waterfowl and upland birds a season. Wouldn't a breeder think that would be a great life for one of their pups?


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

vergy said:


> I'm sorry but I skipped a page or two due to time but...I understand the op's original question and see it a bit differently. Everyone wants notoriety or recognition for something. Common sense tells me that a breeder that won't sell you one of their high powered pups is decided for two reasons. 1. They want the sire/dam to get credit if pups do well and more importantly...no 2. THEY want credit. Want their name out their that they are the creators of the breeding etc. Lets not kid ourselves and deny this. I have no dog in this fight but you can't pizz down my back and tell me it's raining either. So..what about a breeder selling to me. I don't run any tests however I do train my dogs to a fairly high level but more important..I hunt a lot..probably much more than most on this site. So the pup would get to hunt and retrieve tons of waterfowl and upland birds a season. Wouldn't a breeder think that would be a great life for one of their pups?


Hunt test breeder would more than likely...Trial breeder would probably say "no thanks".


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Breck said:


> Knowing what truck, kennel, field trial circuit life is like from my experience owning 2, 3, 4 dogs max I feel so sorry for those poor dogs owned by those who never even scratch the dogs ear even once in their life.
> I recall when I got started there were 2 Lottie bitches I was fascinated with. When one died on the pros truck while on the road still running at around 12, I became aware of the sorry dark side of this business.


Take the dogs home after the season is over. Learn to run your dog if it is on a pro truck. 
Know and recognize when it is over for your dog is important. IMO


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## pcarpenter (Sep 4, 2013)

Duckquilizer said:


> You are entitled to disagree, but this was my main point. And I never said they couldn't be good pets. The OP's questions/statements were related to why a breeder would not desire his/her high breed pups to go to a pet home. That is where my statements in blue come from.



Actually, my question wasn't why a breeder refused to sell me a pup. As I stated earlier, that's his/her prerogative. I understand that breeder's view. 

I was told by a field trialer that some FT dogs don't live great lives. That prompted me to ask which dog had a better life (a) FT bred dog that hunts/runs/swims/retrieves daily and lives with a family or (d) FT dog that sends the bulk of his life on a pro truck. I realize after reading all these posts and weighing the different views (including yours) that my question was way too general as the circumstances and trainers our dogs live under are vary widely.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Take the dogs home after the season is over. Learn to run your dog if it is on a pro truck.
> Know and recognize when it is over for your dog is important. IMO


.
No kidding!
You probably haven't been around long enough to get the actual meaning of my post.


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