# Boykin training suggestions



## lonestar (Aug 8, 2013)

Hi everyone,
Years ago I had a lab and trained him on basics using Richard Wolters's Game Dog. Now I have a new Boykin puppy. I have been reading tons of forum posts, blogs, books, and watching videos, and I'm going crazy with all the conflicting materials, methods, and opinions. As an example, I have the Sound Beginnings DVD, I have the Hillmann puppy DVD on order, I have read Milner's books, I have started reading Smartwork vol. 1, and I have the Pam Kadlec "Retriever Training for Spaniels" book. 

I have read repeatedly that you can't train a Boykin like a lab because they are more sensitive. I'd love to hear some opinions from people that have trained Boykins on what methods they have used and how they have worked. 

My original plan was just for a hunter, but I can see myself getting into hunt tests and wouldn't want to do anything to keep the dog from reaching his potential. I'm not philosophically opposed to e-collars or force fetching, but at the same time some of Milner's positive methods make sense to me and seem like common sense and I don't necessarily believe the collar and ff are mandatory, either. 

Thanks!


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Train it like a lab.


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## JGorman (Mar 28, 2013)

lonestar,

I was asking the exact same questions a few months ago, and still am to be honest.... Ha

I can't offer much help because my Boykin is only 4 months old and this is my first time training a dog, but I can tell you he is responding great (as far as I can tell) to Hillmann's DVD. I will be starting SmartWork soon so it looks like we're on the same page. 

As for owning a Boykin, I'm having a blast. He doesn't seem to have the hard headed, hell-on-wheels mentality you see in so many lab pups, yet he has plenty of get up and go when it's time to play/train. He's great in the house as a family pet, keeps my wife company while I'm at work, and loves to ride along on fishing trips, so I have no complaints.

Good luck, I look forward hearing about, and learning from, your experience.


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

Im not going to say Milner is wrong, but look and see how many dogs Milner has that have Hunt test or AKC titles. Train a Boykin just like you would a lab. But, you have to be able to read the dog. Pam's book is basically an over view to all the other training programs out there. It's just not as detailed. Find a training group and go and work with them. You can learn a lot by watching other people run and work their dogs.


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## lonestar (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks everybody!

Quackwcker, I hear what you are saying, and I can see how something like Lardy's program or Smartwork would be best to train the precision needed for hunt tests. However, some of the Milner stuff seems to make a lot of sense, like teaching restraint early on so it doesn't have to be corrected for later. I'm hoping the Hillmann stuff is the best of both worlds because I think he starts steadying pretty early.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

lonestar said:


> Hi everyone,
> Years ago I had a lab and trained him on basics using Richard Wolters's Game Dog. Now I have a new Boykin puppy. I have been reading tons of forum posts, blogs, books, and watching videos, and I'm going crazy with all the conflicting materials, methods, and opinions. As an example, I have the Sound Beginnings DVD, I have the Hillmann puppy DVD on order, I have read Milner's books, I have started reading Smartwork vol. 1, and I have the Pam Kadlec "Retriever Training for Spaniels" book.
> 
> I have read repeatedly that you can't train a Boykin like a lab because they are more sensitive. I'd love to hear some opinions from people that have trained Boykins on what methods they have used and how they have worked.
> ...


Assume your in Texas... this could be a good group of Boykin people to join up with...http://boykinspanieltexas.com/ I know a few of the members are participating in UKC/AKC hunt tests and many avid hunters


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I have two or three a year come through my kennel. The program is the same as for a Lab...the Boykins handle pressure more like a Chessie than a Lab (more sensitive), and they are also really good at trying to use the sad brown eyes and sad act to "train" you to not do something. Don't fall for the "cute little brown dog" act, and train and set a high standard, and you'll be just fine.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

lonestar said:


> I'm not philosophically opposed to e-collars or force fetching, but at the same time some of Milner's positive methods make sense to me and seem like common sense and I don't necessarily believe the collar and ff are mandatory, either.


Train a Boykin like a Lab, they _*retrieve*_ like a Lab



















and stay philosophically open, not opposed, to what you don't believe to be "mandatory."

You've got a lot of conflictive training material there, I'd weed it out it in an instant before your pup arrives - starting with the spaniel book and ye olde "common sense" Milnerfesto, er, manifesto.

MG


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## Hairy Dawg (Mar 8, 2009)

BlaineT said:


> Train it like a lab.


That about sums it up.


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## kcrumpy9 (Sep 29, 2008)

My breeder has 3. She said that they're a lot softer than her other dogs. I know that she still does the same training that she would with a retriever. She just dials the pressure back or else they'll shut down.


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## steve schreiner (Jun 15, 2009)

kcrumpy9 said:


> My breeder has 3. She said that they're a lot softer than her other dogs. I know that she still does the same training that she would with a retriever. *She just dials the pressure back or else they'll shut down.*


*
*


Use the same program as a lab but adjust the pressure ,all forms, to the level needed for that individual dog...All dogs will either shut down, flight or bite if the pressure is too much for them to handle....Steve S


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

kcrumpy9 said:


> My breeder has 3. She said that they're a lot softer than her other dogs. I know that she still does the same training that she would with a retriever. She just dials the pressure back or else they'll shut down.


This is true for any dog and any breed. Some dogs have lots of bottom, some dont.


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## Kona East (Aug 15, 2009)

Boykins are retrievers. Train them like a retriever with a thought given that the one you have may not be a forgiving as most Labs.


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## honkin (May 5, 2006)

If the message hasn't gotten home yet, contact Easylivn or Kim Smith on how they trained their GRHRCH and HRCH boykins. We followed Lardy with HRCH Justaplaceoutwest, Tana.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

honkin said:


> We followed Lardy with HRCH Justaplaceoutwest, Tana.


So Russ, Lardy's got a "flow chart" to follow now for training a Boykin on wild turkeys?;-)

How y'all doin' out there in the Heartland? - for those B1G proponents hereabouts, Saban's doing very well in Iowa, thank you very much.

MG


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## kcrumpy9 (Sep 29, 2008)

Here's my breeders Boykin just picking up her her first JH ribbon this past weekend.


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## duckdawg27 (Apr 30, 2007)

Quackwacker said:


> This is true for any dog and any breed. Some dogs have lots of bottom, some dont.


Agreeing with Quackwaker. I have a Lab in now for training that is much softer than either of the two Boykins I have. One of the Boykins is taking the pressure better than or at least as well as any Lab I have trained AND is giving the desired response. Don't tell 'em they aren't Labs. Stick with the program. Read the dog.


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

Like many others have said "Train it like a Lab". Train it just like any other retriever. As far as the pressure goes, every dog is different some are hard some not so much. Learn how to read your dog and adjust accordingly. My Boykin has tons of bottom, he can handle pressure much better than my Lab can so it's just a matter of reading the dog. I would use Mike Lardy's TRT program or Evan Graham's program. Both are very good, I think Evans is a little more detailed for the beginner but also can be hard to follow because of the order of it and the fact that there are 200 different videos rather than a one stop shop like Lardy's. Someone already said it but I think Boykins can have that Chesapeake mentality in that they may hold a grudge after a hard correction or get bored doing drill work more so than a Lab. Mine got his SHR title two days after he turned two years old. He loves drill work and is literally crazy about retrieving. You are on the right path using the Hillman puppy stuff.


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## Huck18 (Jan 17, 2012)

What part of Texas are you in? I live in Ft. Worth, if you are close we could get together to train sometime. Like Terri said there is also the Boykin Spaniel Club of Texas, they have training days and little fun days throughout the year but I would look for true HRC or AKC retriever club in your area for series training days. Also the Boykin Spaniel Club of Texas is affiliated with the BSS so due to the politics of the BSS they frown upon AKC registered, non BSS registered dogs.


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## zsimp07 (Jan 6, 2013)

My 4 month old Boykin is less sensitive than any other dog I've ever had, and I've had a handful of labs. She just gets bored with repetitive drills faster than my labs did. You kind of have to entertain them, and make drills shorter. I work 5-10 minutes at a time, and might cover one or two things each time. She stays entertained, and still wants to "play" when we quit.


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## lonestar (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks everyone! Just to be clear I already have my puppy and he's just over 9 weeks now. I went out with a spaniel training club last weekend and it was awesome. I got to introduce my puppy to wounded pigeons and shotguns (at a distance) and everything went great. I've been watching the Hillmann puppy DVD and so far everything corresponds to what I was already doing: 2 sessions of 2-3 retrieves per day. He always chases the bumper but usually wants to keep it for himself, so I'll command "here" and praise him when he comes close, but I won't take the bumper from him. We've been doing walks on the leash for 2 weeks now and he is getting good at it. He learned "sit" the first day and we are working on getting him to sit longer and longer without moving, such as when I'm feeding him. I'm also teaching him a few of the other obedience commands from the Sound Beginnings DVD: Heel and Down. Typically when he wakes up in the morning he is raring to go and I have an hour to spend with him before work. We'll do a few retrieves and 5 minutes of obedience work and then just play around. Then we'll do a walk around the block and another training session in the evening.

Crackerd, I love your posts and pictures. Just out of curiosity, did you use any particular known method for FF'ing your dog?


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Yeah, if I may be a little flip, the hodgepodge method, or hotchpotch, as the Brits spell it. A little borrowed here, a little there, a little more somewhere else - from something called the American Hunting Dog Club, which has a great training book articulating (and illustrating) force fetch step-by-step; from the softer method Robert Milner used to espouse (and it's still very good for accomplishing force fetch particularly with spaniels), and though I didn't know it at the time, Evan Graham's idea of using a paint roller as a buck or dowel to help facilitate the "hold" command. If I were force fetching my first spaniel today, I probably would go with Mr. Graham's program, not least because he's always "on hand" by email or phone call to help get you (and the dog) through it as a newcomer.

Just always bear in mind _*why*_ you're force fetching in the first place - because Boykins will already retrieve everything you throw at them










or shoot for them before force fetch commences.

MG


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

Some great information here. Train like a lab, learn to read your dog. That should be said for any training. I've always had good success using Graham's Smartworks. 

Hey, Crackerd running low on picts.

Hairy and Quack see you at Old South.

Honkin, still waiting on that huntin invite??


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## Bjaillette (Aug 25, 2017)

Hey Esylivin! I saw you were in Savannah GA and wanted to reach out to you. I live in Savannah as well and am in the Army stationed at Stewart. I've been in the area for 8 years between Stewart and Hunter. I'm picking up a Boykin Pup this Saturday, he's out of Show Me and Brandywine lines, and wanted to pick your brain a little. This is my first retriever and am very excited to start training him. My email address is [email protected]

Thanks 

Bjaillette


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## Bob Mac (Feb 28, 2012)

Left you a PM as to your location. Have 2 in Boykins in Ft Worth Area. Give me a call.


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