# Undescended testicle?



## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

Anybody have experience w/ undescended testicles in young pups? I have an 8-wk-old w/ one testicle, vet couldn't find the other one at 6 wks, & I still can't find it. 6 males in the litter; this is only one w/ this issue.

My only experience is w/ a now 8-mo-old whose testicle dropped by 8 wks, & vet could feel it up there at 6 wks, so I was confident it would drop.

I know they have til 6 mos to drop if they're going to, but in the meantime is there anything encouraging I can tell prospective buyers re the % chance this one will drop? This is an awfully nice pup, but who will want to take the chance?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Hi Connie, I've only had 2 in 27 years that didn't drop. All the others dropped by 6-8 months that I know of. One was my daughters' puppy which was lucky. I had one recently that didn't drop at 7 weeks and the guy really wanted that particular puppy. I told him what I just said and he took his chances and it came down by 4 months. If they are really chubby it seems to happen more. Unless there is a known genetic trait in the line, they seem to come down, sometimes I've heard taking as long as a year. I also found out two littermates of a bitch I bought many years ago were monorchid or cryptorchid (not sure if that remained so). Well, I have five generations descended from her and not one was monorchid or cryptorchid.


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## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

Thanks Nancy-- All 3 males available are are very nice, but of course this boy stands out &I'll feel better giving prospective buyer (coming tomorrow) the info so he can make an informed choice & not automatically eliminate "one-nut boy"


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

I've had three male FC-AFC sired male pups from different FC-AFC sired bitch lines over the last 20 plus years with the issue...none of the testicles dropped according to their owners. Two kept the dogs and neutered.. and one client sold or placed their dog, but I never received status back on whether the dog was ever neutered.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptorchidism#Dogs


/Paul


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1630&articleid=897


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2007)

have had two cases, one dropped later. Other didn't and was neutered...

I guess it depends on what their future plans are for the pup, how they feel about neutering (bc if it doesn't drop, you really should neuter), etc.

There is surgery they can do to drop it, but it is hereditary -- so what's the point of breeding?

Good luck whatever you all decide.

-Kristie


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## Gerry Clinchy (Aug 7, 2007)

Also try this website

http://www.labbies.com/reproduction5.htm


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Thank you for googling those links but that is exactly the reason there is so much confusion about testicles and the reason that vets tell people if they aren't down by 6 or 8 weeks they won't come down and they should be neutered. I would take the experience of two breeders with possibly 50+ years experience with having 5 Lab pups over something written on the internet. Of course the internet must be right.;-) Then with that thinking, all the sires and dams that produce one should be sterilized because the inheritance is still not agreed on. Never breed that FC/AFC again or that bitch that produced one because they MAY carry that gene. It's also why some very knowlegible breeders tell people to figure out breeding by themselves (sound familiar?) like they had to when they ask questions and then try to tell the breeder otherwise. Don't sweat the small stuff regards.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Yes, seems to be differing opinions on this issue. I've had two pups, completely different lines, testicles didn't descend until they were 4 and 8 months old. I was told by my vet that if they weren't down by 8 weeks, they weren't coming down, so sold them as non breeding, no big deal, but I was surprised when they came down later. One was sired by an FC AFC, one by a MH, both bitches have had several litters and no other incidents of this. I'm sure not going to wipe that FC AFC off my list just because one pup had late developing testicles when everything else was good. If a pup once in a great while has to be neutered so be it, but I don't consider it a top health issue and not enough proof for me to consider it completely hereditary anyway. One vet I took a litter to for vaccs couldn't find any testicles at 6 weeks on any of the boy pups (not my regular vet), got all in a tizzy and went on about genetics, I'm looking at a basket full of FC AFC sired chubbies and thought to myself she was nuts. By the time they went home, and with a 2nd vet opinion, they all had their appropriate parts. Same with umbilical hernias, minor repair, happens every once in a while, yet I've been told I can't ever breed a bitch again that produced a pup with an umbilical hernia since it's genetic.


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## Janice Gunn (Jan 3, 2005)

In October I attended a Dr. Hutchinson seminar on reproduction.
It was fantastic to say the least.

Here is some very interesting information that most people are not aware of.

*The testicles are in the scrotum at 5-6 wks old
The left comes down first
IF the right testie is there and not the left - then there is cause for concern.
If the left is there, good chance the right will follow.
If you have to neuter FIND OUT WHY the testie did not come down.
If one cord is shorter than the other, then it is genetic - HOWEVER - the cord can be
wrapped around the testie not allowing it to drop.
If both cords are the same length, then it is not genetic.

Unfortunately when this happens, people just neuter the dog and decide that it is
genetic.
When in fact, it could possibly be fixed when they go into neuter!

So Connie determine which testie has dropped. If it is the left, then "chances" are the 
right will drop later. If the pup has to be neutered, then I would want a vet that can determine cord length, and if the testie was hung up before I decided to blame it on the 
bitch or more commonly the stud dog.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Janice Gunn said:


> In October I attended a Dr. Hutchinson seminar on reproduction.
> It was fantastic to say the least.
> 
> Here is some very interesting information that most people are not aware of.
> ...


That's very interesting. Leave it to Dr Hutch to give a valid explanation why breeders don't see what the literature says we should. He is also against early spay and neutering and I think he has that right also.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

left testicle looking from which direction?


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## dback (May 28, 2006)

mjh345 said:


> left testicle looking from which direction?


Press his anal opening firmly against your forehead....the testicle covering your LEFT eye will be his aforementioned testicle


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

mjh345 said:


> left testicle looking from which direction?


If you were in Missouri and were facing Arkansas then left would be the direction of Kentucky. HPW


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## DUCK DGS (Nov 29, 2007)

dback said:


> Press his anal opening firmly against your forehead....the testicle covering your LEFT eye will be his aforementioned testicle


Now THAT'S funny! 
Sue


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## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

Love this thread, folks; it's the way discussions should be: lots of info, not all agreeing, but most of it contributing to topic.

I personally have always paid more heed to experienced breeders than to vets (on breeding/whelping/etc issues), unless they are vet/trainers/breeders themselves, or are specialists like Dr. Hutchinson. For example, umbilical hernias: every chessie litter we bred had hernias; top FT lines-- Lorraine Sarek's Fannie, with 2 Open wins, would never have existed if we had decided to eliminate our great bitch Dancer from breeding due to hernias. But ask most vets.....

Would be more concerned re breeding monorchids, but really learned something from Janice re what Hutchinson has to say. This will help all of us dealing w/ this issue!

Bottom line: buyer chose "one-nut boy." He plans to FT pup, but breeding is not a priority. Today I located the previously missing RIGHT testicle, now in the inguinal canal, so am hopeful it will continue to descend. 

Thanks for all the contributions, and thanks Janice for the info from Hutchinson's seminar: would love to attend one, & maybe it's time for him to write a book?


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## Janice Gunn (Jan 3, 2005)

Actually Dr. Hutch has a couple of new DVD's out.
You can purchase off his website.

One is a re-hash of the seminar talk...and the 2nd one is on whelping

Called:
Maximizing Conception in the Bitch
Successful whelping and neonatal survial

www.northviewvet.com

And nooooooooo........I don't get a commission!


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

1. Are there other genetic traits that "go along" with a dog that is cryptorchid? Or, is it acceptable to breed a stud dog that is cryptorchid?

2. Is it imperative to have surgery performed on a cryptorchid to 1) avoid increased risk of cancer and 2) avoid increased risk of torsion? Are these valid concerns or is literature on cryptorchids inaccurate?

3. If, during surgery, it is determined that both cords are the same length (i.e., cryptorchid is not genetic), then should the owner NOT neuter that dog?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

HiRollerlabs said:


> 1. Would you breed to a cryptorchid?
> 
> 2. Is it imperative to have surgery performed on a cryptorchid to 1) avoid increased risk of cancer and 2) avoid increased risk of torsion? Are these valid concerns or is literature on cryptorchids inaccurate?


I know of and have heard of testicles descending at 8 to 12 months of age, I would not consider removing the undescended testicle until after one year of age. If this is a working dog I would remove the undescended testicle and leave the descended one.

Undescended testicles are predisposed to testicular neoplasia but this generally happens after 5 years of age.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

HiRollerlabs said:


> 1. Would you breed to a cryptorchid?
> 
> 2. Is it imperative to have surgery performed on a cryptorchid to 1) avoid increased risk of cancer and 2) avoid increased risk of torsion? Are these valid concerns or is literature on cryptorchids inaccurate?


I don't think too many people stand cryptorchids at stud. I think it's pretty well accepted that if they aren't both down by a year or so it's the end of their being a stud. I would not breed to one. As far as cancer, that's a concern if the retained testicle is not removed but according to what I've heard, you have time to wait it out, but if it is retained, yes it should be removed especially if it's abdominal. As far as torsion, I have been told torsion is not common in dogs (after I thought I had a torsion in a dog, but it was an infection). Anyone have a dog with torsion?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> I don't think too many people stand cryptorchids at stud. ?


the only one I can recall being bred much (who was alleged to be a monorchid) was FC-AFC E-Lynn's Super Strike Lucky who sired 
1988 NFC-AFC PP's Lucky Super Toby


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Janice Gunn said:


> Actually Dr. Hutch has a couple of new DVD's out.
> You can purchase off his website.
> 
> One is a re-hash of the seminar talk...and the 2nd one is on whelping
> ...


Thanks for the information.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

EdA said:


> the only one I can recall being bred much (who was alleged to be a monorchid) was FC-AFC E-Lynn's Super Strike Lucky who sired
> 1988 NFC-AFC PP's Lucky Super Toby



Wasn't NFC Vinwood's Takes a Lickin' a cryptorchic? I have only see one pup (if I remember correctly) by him.

WRL


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

WRL said:


> Wasn't NFC Vinwood's Takes a Lickin' a cryptorchic? I have only see one pup (if I remember correctly) by him.WRL


yes, he had an undescended testicle, that's the reason we did not keep him as a puppy

if he was bred it was only a very few times


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

EdA said:


> the only one I can recall being bred much (who was alleged to be a monorchid) was FC-AFC E-Lynn's Super Strike Lucky who sired
> 1988 NFC-AFC PP's Lucky Super Toby


FC AFC E-Lynn’s Super Strike Lucky was a 3-time National and 2-time National Amateur finalist and is in the Retriever Hall of Fame with 234 all-age points. I will verify with his owner, but I believe Ed's post is correct--that Lucky was a cryptorchid.


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## torg (Feb 21, 2005)

dback said:


> Press his anal opening firmly against your forehead....the testicle covering your LEFT eye will be his aforementioned testicle


I can't stop laughing!!!!!!!!!!


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## DDRetrievers (Jun 20, 2006)

Yep, I bought Mr. One nut Boy......


Like Connie said, breeding is not that high on my list. Having a pup that was showing all the right things was the top priority. Connie spoke very highly of this pup from day 1 and I would rather have a talented dog that cannot breed than a so-so dog with breeding abilities.

Thanks for all the info, I will continue to monitor the other one to see if it comes down or not. If it does great....

Drew


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

DDRetrievers said:


> Yep, I bought Mr. One nut Boy......
> 
> 
> Like Connie said, breeding is not that high on my list. Having a pup that was showing all the right things was the top priority. Connie spoke very highly of this pup from day 1 and I would rather have a talented dog that cannot breed than a so-so dog with breeding abilities.
> ...


Well for cripes sake name him something other than ONE NUT BOY!

He'll get a complex!

Of Course, Peanut works well.....cause he only has one otherwise it'd have to be Peanuts......

WRL


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

dback said:


> Press his anal opening firmly against your forehead....the testicle covering your LEFT eye will be his aforementioned testicle


OMG too freaking funny!!!

I also vote for "Peanut" for a call name 

FOM


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Press his anal opening firmly against your forehead....the testicle covering your LEFT eye will be his aforementioned testicle 

That may be the most memorable thing I've ever read on here.

John


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

LMAO!!!!

Rather be called one nut, than no nuts, regards,
Tim


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Maybe call him "single shot."

John


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## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

Final update: The aforementionned tardy testicle has found its home & settled next to its bro, proving Dr. Hutch to be correct (no surprise) & giving us a very happy ending to the story-- and no need for "nutty" nicknames for Turbo!!

Thanks again everyone for your input, including humor!


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## dback (May 28, 2006)

Damn....and I was sooooo looking forward to some of the creative names these guys could come up with.

He was under 12 weeks Connie?

By the way MJH...I was joking


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## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

Turbo will be 9 wks tomorrow.


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