# Pups, Parvo, and Water???



## Corytdf (Aug 5, 2011)

So I just had and sold my first litter of pups. I did everything the way I thought it should be done I.E. 26 month guarantee, shots, deworm, clip wing pigeon, socialized, and water introduction. The latter part is where I have the question.

I used a small pool in my yard filled with clean water that was warmed by the sun each day and then changed each night. I did this under the advisement of my vet. I was told NOT to take the pups to ANY water that other dogs may have had access to as they could contract parvo and die. She told me to wait until the last parvo shot is given before they are ready to go out.

This is where I have a problem understanding. Every time I look at a breeders page it seems like they have pups in a pond, creek or something of the like. I know when I got the mother the first day I had he we stayed at my aunts and as she lives on a lake we spent most the day on her beach and played in the water. When I got home I took her to a small pond by my house and she loved it. 

I followed the vets instructions with the pups and told the new owners what the vet had told me. I did this as I did not want the pups to have any chance at getting sick. But I am keeping one of the pups and now my vet has me all nervous to take my dog out of the yard. It just seems like waiting for that final shot puts me at almost 4 months of age before we can even go into the water and I feel like that is crazy. Am I crazy?

What do you breeders do with your pups? When do you feel its safe to go to the creek, pond, or lake with your pup?


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Cory, 

In part it depends what product you've used for vaccines and what your schedule is. There are ways to insure yourself that your pup is well protected by 12 wks but you have to use certain proven products imo. Even so, I don't wait often wait that long if I have a hunt test or such, but I use my head basing it on the location... Most hunt test sites are likely pretty darned safe if on private grounds esp like Peppers in Carnation. I'm in Yakima, btw--- probably a far worse place for parvo than WW. 

Socialization is a risk v benefit decision. My last pups are 10 wks old now and I've had this chat w/ everyone, sometimes twice! I had a vet surprise me by telling one it's okay to take them for walks around their neighborhood here in Yakima. I said, no, why risk it? What is really the benefit of dragging the puppy around the neighborhood (who probably doesn't like a leash yet anyhow) to get possibly scared by big / mean dogs on chains or vehicles speeding by? I'd rather they not take huge chances w/ something like that until after their 3rd combo vaccine at ~13-14 wks and the pup is out of that funky fear stage. I steer clear of any parks or pet stores that allow the general public in and/or does rescue adoptions until even later. Lowes, Home Depot, other hardware stores and co-ops are probably VERY safe to carry puppy in, then set them down, though be sure to ask first if it's allowed. I also encourage my pup owners to attend Puppy Kindergarten classes (I doubt WW has them either, but the folks in the cities usually do). 

That said, about 18 yrs ago, I had 2 pups from the same litter contract parvo. I was using a good vaccine at the time (my vet gave first ones at 6 wks and we were on a 6, 9, 12, 16 wk program at the time). I can't remember how old the one pup was who contracted it from his own yard (a rental), but the other was 13 wks who had been taken up in the Naches area camping/fishing. Both lived, but it was nip and tuck for a few days. Not worth it! 

I now use Neopar at 5 wks to help override the maternal antibodies and get the vaccine right to work. Then I do a Nobivac (was Proguard 5) at 7, 10-11, and 13-15 wks (3-4 wks between combos). Progard and Nobivac were both shown in challenge studies to give full protection by 12 wks. Not all vaccines are considered equal.

Also consider you probably have lepto concerns down there. That is in water... raccoons is the major carrier. I do Vanguard L-4 Lepto at ~17 and 20 wks as a stand alone as it's safer (less chance of a reaction). If you need a couple doses, I do have some extras here, btw. I have a training friend who gets down there to WW fairly often and maybe she'd be willing.... Contact me privately if you are interested. Anne


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

I wouldnt take a pup to a public water area til their vaccines were completed either. But, a private pond /creek, etc where you know theres not been any stray dogs- I would risk that- and have. I live on a creek- my pups (not baby pups in a litter though) have all been swimming at 8-10 weeks if the weather is right. I am leery to expose my litters to it , their immune system isnt top at that age, and even if its not parvo- they could get something nasty in their system at that age . 
I cant control the coyotes/foxes,etc that roam the creek or property, so I realize its still a risk but not as probable as taking them to where other peoples dogs frequent.


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## Corytdf (Aug 5, 2011)

Windy- what type of vaccines is it that you use?


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

What is the connection to water and parvo?


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> What is the connection to water and parvo?


I was thinking the same thing. I thought it was transmitted by coming into contact with feces or soil that is contaminated.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

Lepto can be in ponds and creeks from wildlife that carry it--deer, foxes, etc.

Parvo can be transmitted by sharing water bowls because of saliva from an infected animal, but I have never heard of Parvo being a concern in ponds or streams...just in areas heavily used by dogs (dog parks, yards, etc.).

Meredith


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

I thought rats are the biggest carriers and spreaders of Lepto? Never heard of Parvo being a waterborn disease from streams/lakes?


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

I dont think it is either but I think a lot of ponds/lakes,etc are open to public, therefore, public dogs.  Sheesh- guys do I have to spell everything out for ya?!


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

Lepto is carried by all kinds of critters including deer, cattle, raccoons, foxes, rabbits, etc. Likes stagnant, warm water, but the spirocetes can also live in running water.

Meredith


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## Corytdf (Aug 5, 2011)

Yeah I was wondering about the water thing too. Honestly I feel like my vet sometimes wants me to keep my dogs in a bubble. I have aprivate pond that i train at that is only used by other dog people. Dogs that I know are safe. Like stated before there is always a chance that other dogs have found their way to the pond but as far as it being a place for mass dogs it is not. Chances are i will take my pup down to the pond after her third shot and feel pretty safe about it.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

mwk56 said:


> Lepto is carried by all kinds of critters including deer, cattle, raccoons, foxes, rabbits, etc. Likes stagnant, warm water, but the spirocetes can also live in running water.
> 
> Meredith


yes--- this. 
Mainly it's standing water that is the biggie for Lepto. And raccoons (around here-- NW) are the biggest vector, but there are several more.

Corytdf-- I spelled out the vaccines above in my post. Not sure why you asked again???


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## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

My advice is to make informed choices. Your dog is more likely to get parvo from you taking him to the local pet superstore than the watering hole. I bet nothing was said about that but we walk right in and let pup have his mouth on a ton of stuff. Or, maybe you didn't and the guy before you did and now you take that Kong home and give it to the dog.

I agree with what some have said so far. Educate yourself about the disease and about vaccination schedules. I believe that it is more effective to try and prevent lapses in immunity rather that try to avoid a disease that would be impossible to.  Just a thought.


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## forhair (Feb 4, 2013)

Ever heard of nosocomial infections? The word derives from the greek word for hospitals and of course a similar latin term. The best place to find bugs is in a hospital. I always cringe when I take the pups to the vet even though they tell me that the place is cleaned every day. I shoot for the morning appointment hoping they cleaned and bleached well the night before. Parvo is passed through feces and the virus can survive for a year in the soil. Leptospirosis is passed by urine from a variety of critters. It seems to like a wet environment including standing water in a rut in the road. One is not immune from a pond that is on private property as many animals may visit that pond at night. One must always exercise caution, but the most likely place to encounter any bug is at the vet office and yet, my pups never seem to pick up a bug there. Howard Hughes lived in a bubble, but that is no way to live. Exercise caution and hope for the best.


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