# Fox red US Labs?



## LH (Jan 24, 2006)

Do they exist?


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Send out the canine forensics team to the Susquehanna affix for solid evidence. (Sorry, Richard, couldn't resist.)

MG


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

Yes.....










This is Grandmother - Mother - Son.

We currently have 3 fox red yellows in our household. 

There are several very nice lines that have produced the darker shades of yellow.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Dave Combs brought this dog to our May 5-6 test 








I thought it was a fox red Lab but it could have been a Pigment of my imagination. :wink:


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)




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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

LH,
The "fox red" color is not recognized by AKC or UKC. Fox reds are considered yellows.


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## Josh Conrad (Jul 3, 2005)




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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Yep.


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

Steve Hester said:


> LH,
> The "fox red" color is not recognized by AKC or UKC. Fox reds are considered yellows.


From the Labrador Retriever Standards on AKC web site:
"*Color*
The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification. A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but not desirable. White hairs from aging or scarring are not to be misinterpreted as brindling. Black--Blacks are all black. A black with brindle markings or a black with tan markings is a disqualification. Yellow--_Yellows may range in color from *fox-red *to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog._ Chocolate--Chocolates can vary in shade from light to dark chocolate. Chocolate with brindle or tan markings is a disqualification. "

They do recognize it, but all yellow dogs are registered as yellow, the particular shade of yellow isn't denoted on the pedigree.


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## MRGD (Apr 9, 2007)

Ken, A pigment of your imagination! ha ha ha ha ha

That's puntastic.


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## Pete Marcellus (Oct 2, 2003)

FYI,

The pigment responsible for yellows, phaeomelanin, is red in its full expression. The red color is less common in labs because of modifiers in their genetic code that dilutes the red pigment to a lighter shade.

Pete


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

MRGD said:


> Ken, A pigment of your imagination! ha ha ha ha ha
> 
> That's puntastic.


Thank you, Thank you very much 8)


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## Dale (Dec 21, 2003)

Fox red, you be the judge.
I think he is but I am bias.


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## labman52738 (Jul 13, 2005)

Lady Duck Hunter said:


> Yes.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are the lines on your dogs? They are gorgeous!! Those girls are very nice looking dogs.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

"The Lady" and her hubbie, breed, train, and compete with some REALLY nice dogs. They are really good looking dogs. Prettier in person.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

ACEBLDRS said:


>


 Wow, those two are dark!


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## TxFig (Apr 13, 2004)

David Maddox said:


> "The Lady" and her hubbie, breed, train, and compete with some REALLY nice dogs. They are really good looking dogs. Prettier in person.



And some of the folks they hang around pretty fantastic too! 
8)


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

*Fox Red*

Are they Fox Red? We say and agree that they are yellow but with the Fox Red Color per AKC color regulations. ALL Beautiful dogs. Our girl has a heart of gold and one of the best dogs we have ever owned. We have a breeding upcoming this month with Paige and FC CAFC Money Talks II"Copper" which will be all FOX RED puppies with an AWESOME field trial pedigree!!! 

Here is Paiges picture!!!



RCL Retrievers
"Specializing In Young Dog Development"
Rob and Darla Langenhorst
www.rivercreeklabs.net
402-540-1501


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

labman52738 said:


> Lady Duck Hunter said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.....
> ...



Well, Grandmother there is no longer with us. She was born in 1990. She was 14.5 years old when she asked us to let her go. She had nothing special in her pedigree up close, but 4 & 5 generations back she had Super Chief repeated a couple of times and Air Express came in as well and there are some other of the breeds more notable dogs back there. She was as smart as any dog I've ever met. We knew nothing of hunt tests when we got her or of training other than teaching her to behave. She ws relentless in retrieving, had a super nose, and was a thinking dog. She had great maternal instincts and both of the dogs we kept out of her became HRCH-MH dogs.

Dusty, middle dog above, is a Candlewood's M D Houston grandaughter. Her dad was a dog that did some hunt tests and did well when he ran them. He had 3 or 4 Master Passes, I think, when the owner decided he didnt' want to send the dog off to a trainer any more. Dusty was nearly white as a small pup with just the red ears and a sprinkling of red haird across her back. as she aged she got more color and now that she is 11, she is getting Doc's white face.

UH HRCH Run-N-Gun's Rhythm and Blues, MH (called Jive) is out of HRCH Nugget's Gold Dust, MH ( middle above) and GRHRCH Brovic's Rhythm and Blues, MH (called Jiv). Jiv'e pedigree is stacked full of great dogs from the Field Trial game. See www.gowestretrievers.com to see his pedigree.

Thank you, David Maddox for the kind words, we love our dogs and are glad that others think they are nice, too.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: Fox Red*



RiverCreekLabs said:


> which will be all FOX RED puppies


Not necessarily....
This is the result of a fox red X fox red breeding.


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## LavenderLabs (Aug 28, 2005)

wow "The Lady"

I love all 3 of your dog's But Jive is just Handsome!!


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## smillerdvm (Jun 3, 2006)

That paige is anice looking girl with a nice block head on a female. You say she is one of your best dogs ever. What titles and acomplishments does she have? I couldnnt find her on OFA or AKC.


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: Fox Red*



Last Frontier Labs said:


> RiverCreekLabs said:
> 
> 
> > which will be all FOX RED puppies
> ...


Thanks for the imput!!! That is good to know for her breeding that is upcoming with Copper. Thanks again!


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

LavendersLabs said:


> wow "The Lady"
> 
> I love all 3 of your dog's But Jive is just Handsome!!


Thanks, He's my big baby....a real mama's boy....woosie dog unless you mention going pheasant hunting. :roll: Then it's "See you later, Mama!"


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

smillerdvm said:


> That paige is anice looking girl with a nice block head on a female. You say she is one of your best dogs ever. What titles and acomplishments does she have? I couldnnt find her on OFA or AKC.


Here is Paige's pedigree, I guess sometimes before you word things you shoudl think..lol Paige is a great dog with great marking ability who is a wonderful dog in the house, she is calm and knows how to turn on the fire for the field, this makes her "one of the best dogs I have owned" I love dogs that can excel in the field but know how to tone down to be a family companion!) She is running Juniors and is currently training and getting close to senior work. Her registered name is River Creek's Foxy Paige(I have her entered on Good Dog Info with the incorrect spelling which they are in the process of changing) Her AKC # is SR22026509 she has been prelimed OFA Good per our vet who is PENN HIP Certified and we are waiting on the results for her offical OFA record. 
Thanks for the compliments on her looks, I think she is beautiful but that is because she is my dog!!!!


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

she is a very pretty dog.love that color.


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

The pedigree for Paige did not attach... Here it is
http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=83705


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

*How about a fox red Lean Mac Linebred.........Here is my bo.*

Here is my line bred Lean Mac Grandson..........


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

Lots of different lines of dogs with that deep fox red color. I sure love that shade of yellow!


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

FC CAFC Money Talks II or Copper is a dark fox red yellow isn't he ??? Very nice pedigree too.


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## Ken Archer (Aug 11, 2003)

Did somebody say fox-red?


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## Dave Combs (Feb 28, 2003)

Rather than post all the pics, here's a link to Tuck's website.
http://castleheightsgundogs.tripod.com/id3.html

He'll hopefully get his GMHR this weekend, as he needs one more pass. 

Red Dawg - Good Dawg!


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

ducksoup said:


> FC CAFC Money Talks II or Copper is a dark fox red yellow isn't he ??? Very nice pedigree too.


Yes he is dark fox red, and on top of his color is TONS of talent, he is a beautiful dog with great confirmation!!!!!


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## torg (Feb 21, 2005)

Fox reds with outstanding field pedigrees.









Eric who is son to a NFC and a granddaughter to Lean Mac









Stoney who is QAA and a son of a FC, AFC, (who is also the full brother to a NFC)









Pup out of a "Bubba" daughter and FC, AFC Ebonstar Teddy James son


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

Here is a couple more pictures of Copper, if you want stud information on Copper contact Van Ames(owner of Copper) at 207-474-9097 or e-mail [email protected]


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## Pete Marcellus (Oct 2, 2003)

Is Copper on Mosher's truck?

Pete


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Yes he is, I believe he also carries the chocolate gene.


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## Pete Marcellus (Oct 2, 2003)

That is one powerful and handsome dog. Got to see him up close quite a bit while Mosher was running here this spring.

Pete


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## Steve Hamel (Mar 1, 2004)

FC CAFC Money Talks is indeed a very nice dog in all ways. I bred my Nitro bitch to him last fall. Had 10 pups, 5 F 5 M .One male pup was fox red, 3 females were fox red. The male pup was by far the darkest. 

I work with one of the female pups on a regular basis and she looks good, and seems like she's got what it takes to succeed in HTs which her owner dabbles in. I'll also have the pleasure to hunt over her, and her mother this fall.

I'm pretty sure that Copper is home with Van Ames now. I know that Van's been trying like hell to get that AFC this summer.


Steve


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## jill (Nov 15, 2005)

Eric is out of Drake, isn't he? Nice looking dogs you own. Not small at all.


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

I like the look of Copper -- very nice dog


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

what about Van Gogh here in TX ?isnt he fox red?Has he been bred very much?


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

I saw 2 drop dead gorgeous to look at fox reds at the Maine trial this weekend. Athletic & powerful looking w/ very nice heads (at least for what I like:

FC AFC Winifox Hot Shot & his son (Junior is his call name :wink: ) Winifox Hot to Trot.

If I ever get a Lab...

M


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## msdaisey (May 13, 2004)

Crunch is a QAA Houston grandson. He is actually redder than this picture looks.










I can't imagine having him in the house or even hunting with him. He is absolutely a maniac. :lol:


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## Gina (Mar 9, 2005)

I think it's a nice color - it really blends in with the colors of fall and looks even better carrying a colorful cock pheasant or mallard drake. If I ever break down and get a yeller dog it'll be a fox-red yeller. :wink:


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Gina said:


> I think it's a nice color - it really blends in with the colors of fall ....


Yes it does blend well with the terrain. My fox red was running (actually swimming) a nice water blind in a recent FT Q when I lost him in the afternoon shadows at some distance next to a sage/broom grass shoreline. Since I couldn't see him, I couldn't handle him. I saw movement in the shoreline grass, thought he got out of the water & call him in. Turned out he was in good shape...my bad, should have just used that Hollywood cast I guess. But this Drake pup is a nice looking young dog - and if he had a better trainer/handler would likely have a win or 2 to show for it.


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## Ken Archer (Aug 11, 2003)

Money Talks just won the Amateur in Maine this weekend. Congratulations to Van.


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

Copper won the amateur this weekend!!! 

Congrats Copper and Van!!


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## larrynogaj (Aug 31, 2004)

*fox red*

from the pics, I'd say they're goldens with brush-cuts. :wink:


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## Van Ames (Feb 11, 2005)

Funny, that is what I thought too, but what do I know? Smiling in Maine.

Van


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Hey Van,

The two boys I have left are doing really well. Some go-getters.

But you really ought not tell the other FT folks you're breeding "show dogs".....

One of the boys is more "typy" at 4 months than several of the show dogs I've had.

WRL


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## Van Ames (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi Lee, Good to hear from you. My motto has always been " pretty is as pretty does". Looks and talent is hard to beat in my book.

Van


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## Patti Benton (Jan 6, 2003)

All are beautiful dogs.


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

*Re: Fox Red*



RiverCreekLabs said:


> Are they Fox Red? We say and agree that they are yellow but with the Fox Red Color per AKC color regulations. ALL Beautiful dogs. Our girl has a heart of gold and one of the best dogs we have ever owned. We have a breeding upcoming this month with Paige and FC CAFC Money Talks II"Copper" which will be all FOX RED puppies with an AWESOME field trial pedigree!!!
> 
> Here is Paiges picture!!!
> 
> ...


*Does Copper throw soft puppies or strong willed, lots of go?? *


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## Van Ames (Feb 11, 2005)

In general I would expect most Copper puppies to have high prey drive. Mark Mosher has two in training right now that he is very excited about. I also hear good things from Steve Hamil about some of the pups from his litter. Obviously the bitch is part of the equation as well.

Copper always tries, but his speed is often a problem for the handler on blinds. No matter what he does, I always enjoy watching him. Style would be his middle name.

Van


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

Pat Kenney's dog Nick (Van Gough IV) is an AFC and is very well bred and a very nice dog and is Fox Red. 

Pat's web site is: 

www.foxredlabstud.com


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Tim West said:


> Pat Kenney's dog Nick (Van Gough IV) is an AFC and is very well bred and a very nice dog and is Fox Red.
> 
> Pat's web site is:
> 
> www.foxredlabstud.com



Is Nick CNM clear or has he been tested? My "Beemer" bitch was a carrier. 

WRL


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## RiverCreekLabs (Jun 8, 2006)

Well we traveled all the way from NE to TX this week to have an AI from our Fox Red Paige and FC CAFC Copper this week!!! We are so excited for this breeding and can not wait to see the talent in these pups!!!!!

Thank you Van for all of your help and info on Copper, we are greatful to be able to work with someone like you!!!!

Also thank you Mary Tatum for all of your help and after hour calls!! You do not know what it means to us to have someone willing to help and answer any questions asked!!!!

Thanks again!!!

Rob and Darla


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## smillerdvm (Jun 3, 2006)

RiverCreek I hate to have to play the part of internet police, but after seeing you make a number of posts on this thread basically promoting your breeding with Copper, I have a few comments and obsevations to make.
It appears from your posts and from OFA that your bitch still does not have her OFA certification even though she is 31 months old and has already been bred.
Some of us on this board have pretty long memories, and I seem to recall you being called out for your breeding practices in a thread last Winter. As I recall you defended yourself and said you were breeding for the reason of improving the breed, not for the money.
Although you say Paige is "one of the best dogs we've ever owned", I see she has no titles although "she is working towards her JH"

Do you feel it is responsible and will help to improve the breed by breeding a dog with no titles or objective performance history or all of her health clearances.
Do you have plans in place if these pups can't be placed, or get returned on your health gaurantee to ensure they dont end up in a shelter?
Do you feel it is fair to basically advertise your breeding here rather than in the puppy classifieds. I am sure you are aware you would not be able to list them there without the appropriate heath clearances

Do you feel it is fair to the other breeders who follow the rules for the puppy classifieds by basically doing an end run around those rules and posting in this forum and bumping it every few days?

Since the breeding has already occurred I can only hope the pups are all healthy and get placed in good homes, but I hope you consider these issues bbefore doing another of your frequent breedings. Sorry so harsh but I feel it needed to be said.


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## steelheadfred (Nov 17, 2005)

Just a gun dog.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Drove from NE to TX.Dont yall live in TX?


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

you cant have an add on the classifieds if your dogs arent or havent been tested.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

..


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

nevermind,your website say nebraske but it said Texas just a few weeks ago.I guess you came down here and didnt like it and went back.I cant believe anyone wouldnt like texas,I would understand if it was Oklahoma..lol


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

I am totally hooking Princess Darla up with Copper sometime soon! I think they will be quite a festive bunch! I am just praying that she doesn't go into heat until the trial season is over!


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

I am wondering, if Darla is just plain yellow, and was bred to Copper, the puppies should come out both colors right? And if Copper has a chocolate gene in there somewhere, and Darla has someone in the background with chocolate, then could I get some chocolate? I might just have a rainbow!


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

No, 2 yellows will always produce yellows.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

According to this chart, http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html, you wouldn't get any chocolates. look up the one has two yellow dogs that are chocolate factored.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

*Yellow who carries Choc. to a Yellow who carries Choc.*
*25% Yy, 50% Yc, and 25% NBP*









Courtesy Dian Welle BlueKnight Labradors

NBP means the pups will be dudleys. Pink noses, eye rims and gums. They may also have green eyes like chocolates.


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

OK. But if one dog is fox red (yellow I do realize), and one is plain yellow, is the red tone from a gene that both have to have? Or is it truly just a color of yellow, therefore the puppies could be red or yellow..... WIll be fun to see what I get!


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

Darla,

Bred my boy "Gander" FR British to my yella bitch "Dixie".

www.ducksloughkennels.com


She has no FR in her lineage. Gander has it on both sides of pedigree.

I get 2-4 FR pups per litter. Although they can vary from a carmel to a dark Fox Red.


Good Luck,


Richard


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## Kimmie (Nov 14, 2003)

FC Pin Oak's Texas Rex throws "red" pups. I would never have thought it considering his color is almost white... Some pics were resized... Some weren't, so I just left them where you would have to click the links...

http://starlightlabs.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/caryrexredboyfly.jpg

http://starlightlabs.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/caryrexboypooped1.jpg

http://starlightlabs.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/rexgiz.jpg


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

Richard and Kimmie, those are awesome pictures and website! Thanks for letting me admire.. 

I guess, I shall just wait and see. I don't even really care what color they all end up. I was just wondering...


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