# Partial tear of ACL



## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

My girl has a partial tear of her ACL. Has anyone ever had a dog who had a partial tear and did not have surgury? I am to see a ortho vet tommorow. Any advice or experences would be appericiated.

scott


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## pupaloo (Jan 6, 2006)

If you wait to fix it until it tears completely, she will do more-and lasting-damage to the joint, and increase the chances of arthritis later.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

labraiser said:


> My girl has a partial tear of her ACL. Has anyone ever had a dog who had a partial tear and did not have surgury? I am to see a ortho vet tommorow. Any advice or experences would be appericiated.scott


partial tears eventually become complete tears, expedite the recovery and minimize the joint damage by early repair


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## Alron (Mar 28, 2008)

My Cosmo male partially tore his left ACL last April. I recognized the problem when he started going to his left on his marks and blinds. The diagnosis was confirmed by two DVMs. My regular DVM told me to crate him for 3-4 months to let it heal and then bring him back slowly with long slow walks and swimming. I followed his instructions (lost a whole season of training) and could see the muscle mass coming back to his leg as we progressed. We did hunt this past fall and winter without any problems or lameness. I had him in to the Vet a couple of weeks ago for shots and he checked his leg and said it's good. Not perfect like his right but good. He said I can resume regular training and that he should have two asprin 325mg/each twice per day for two days on and two days off. We'll be resuming training soon and I'll keep you posted on his progress. I realize he will probably develope arthritis in the joint but, when you look at the surgery statistics it's not pretty.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Alron said:


> when you look at the surgery statistics it's not pretty.


I must have missed it, what surgery statistic is that?


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

In my experience all partial tears will become full tears in a working dog, and leaving them will not fix itself, scar tissue can't hold the knee together especially if the tibial plteau angle is exessive. Leaving it will just increase the chance of furthur damage to the CCL, meniscus and arthrittis. CCL injuries are difficult to diagnose atleast the partial tears becuase they still have stability unlike full tears especially when the dog in question has good muscel mass. If the dog is not sedated and manipulated for CCL injury it's an educated guess at best. I'd aslo love to read the "surgery statistic thats not pretty" becuase everything I've read states that partial tears "will" become full tears and surgical intervention especially TPLO has proven itself to fix active dogs.


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## Alron (Mar 28, 2008)

Ed A. your a vet. Isn't it true that as high as 40% of the dogs that have cruciate surgery on one side end up having it done on the other side? Isn't it true that TPLO is a realatively new procedure and that as of this date there are no published studies documenting the procedures long term success rate? Isn't it true that for just about every TPLO success story you can find a TPLO horror story.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

ligaments don't heal, as far as i know.

what happens is, with rest, the pain associated with the trauma of the injury resolves as the swelling goes down. THE DOG APPEARS TO HAVE RECOVERED. however, it's a ticking time bomb, and when the ligament tears fully there may be collateral damage to tendons,cartilage and the meniscus.

i'm unaware of the horror stories you allude to. many dogs do injure both sides. the orthopedic specialist i have seen tells me that the stats talk to all dogs. he told me the ones that are most at risk of blowing the other side are the overweight couch potatoes, not the athletic ones that are the proper weight and that are properly rehabilitated.
oh yeah, i'm not a Vet, but i stayed at a Holiday Inne.....-paul


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## mostlygold (Aug 5, 2006)

Paul Young is correct. I work with an ortho surgeon. Most of the dogs we deal with are 15-20 lbs overweight. The reason they tear the 2nd ACL is that they are putting all their weight on their "good" leg while recovering from surgery and that is just too much weight. Also, most people simply DO NOT FOLLOW POST SURGICAL INSTRUCTIONS!!!! I can't tell you how many dogs come back reinjured because the owners turned them loose in the back yard to air and they took off after a squirrel. Post surgery recovery is at least equally as important as the surgery. TPLO may be a newer surgery than TPO, but for bigger breed dogs, it is definitely the way to go.


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## labsx3 (Oct 27, 2003)

Ed A can answer this better than me I am sure, but....I work at a veterinary hospital and also have a dog with a double tplo, so I see this injury alot and have first hand knowledge. The rate of reoccurence has nothing to do with the first knee getting a tplo, but the a fat dog will be much more likely to blow the knee sooner due to the fact that it will be shifting weight to the "good" leg after surgery. The angle of the bones in the dogs leg are what is most common for dogs who have doule cruciate repairs, so genetics plays a large part in this. Find a great ortho vet, there is one here in Maryland, Dr. Cannap at VOSM that deals alot with working dogs, and they can give you all the information you should need to make the best decision. Good luck, I know what a hard ordeal this is.


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## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

I don't have to worry about overweight, my girl is 53 lbs and built like a grey hound. Tommorow she will be evaluated under sedation and x-rayed to confim by an ortho vet.

Scott


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## Troopers Mom (Nov 19, 2005)

I would also like to add that after surgery, please find a rehab therapist to do underwater treadmill exercises to rebuild the strength and to equalize the usage of both legs as there is a tendeny to blow the other one by over compensating. We have an 85 lb lab who came to us with a torn ACL and over a year later, he runs and walks without even a limp and is as strong as ever. He was 7 yrs old when he had the surgery done. 

Arleen


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## Alron (Mar 28, 2008)

I've attached a link concerning ligament injuries in dogs for anyone that is interested in reading it. There is some interesting information in the material.http://home.earthlink.net/~tiggerpoz/index.html


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Alron said:


> Ed A. your a vet. Isn't it true that as high as 40% of the dogs that have cruciate surgery on one side end up having it done on the other side? Isn't it true that TPLO is a realatively new procedure and that as of this date there are no published studies documenting the procedures long term success rate? Isn't it true that for just about every TPLO success story you can find a TPLO horror story.


40% to 50% of dogs with CCL (cranial cruciate ligament) tears will have the same injury in the opposite limb because the same anatomical predisposing factors that contributed to the initial tear also exist in the opposite rear limb.

The TPLO procedure was pioneered by Dr. Barclay Slocum over 20 years ago and refinements to the procedure and the plate have been ongoing. I have no idea how many dogs have had this procedure but I would conservatively estimate 100,000+ as it is a procedure performed daily and routinely by Board Certified orthopedic surgeons nationwide.

There is much competition for research money for animal disease problems, a retrospective study of TPLO cases would attract little interest because the procedure has been such an incredibly successful improvement on the outcome of surgically repaired CCL tears in large breed and athletic dogs.

No surgical procedure is without potential complications, but having referred many for TPLO over the years I would hardly describe any of the complications as "a horror story". I took a dog we owned to Dr. Slocum in the early 90s who had a CCL tear that I repaired with the then procedure of the day, extracapsular stabilzation. After 4 months of rehab he went back into training and reinjured the leg. Not wishing to repeat the previous surgical procedure I chose to fly him to Eugene Oregon for Dr. Slocum to perform a TPLO, a decision which I never regretted. 

Everyone must make their own decisions regarding the health of their dogs, but after 38 years of dealing with athletic dogs as a veterinarian and trainer I would never consider a non-surgical approach to treatment of a partial CCL tear.


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Breck said:


> I suggest you arrange a trip to Raleigh and Cary NC.
> Pre Surgery and Rehab
> *VetHab* Dr. John Sherman
> http://www.vethab.com/Home/index.php
> ...


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## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

The only problem I see is that maybe some dogs just have minor ligament injuries and are treated as full blown ligament injuries. So how do you really know what the truth is? Do you get multiple opinions or do you just have to trust your ortho vet. That is my question. My girl is walking fine like nothing is wrong tonight. So do I have her operated on or see how it goes for a while before making a decision? Remember she has a suspected partial tear, not a full tear.

Scott


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## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

I did speak with Dr sherman and he quoted me somewhere around 10K for everything including surgury and rehab. That's a lot of money.


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

You take the dog to someone that is board certified and had a track record of success.Dr John Sherman is the best on the east coast. Maybe the country!!He's extreamly honest, and cares about his patients; and their owners.


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

My cost for surgery and rehab was around 7,000, +/- a couple of hundred.The surgery was cheaper by the surgeon Dr Sherman reccomended, that the one here in town, by 1000.00.It would be hard to estimate to cost without seeing the patient. HAd Dr Sherman examined your dog?As a rough idea of rehab costs, figure, 100.00 a day or thereabouts.


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## daminchh (Mar 2, 2008)

i have a four year old lab that also had a partial tear of ccl. after much research and weighing all the options - decided to have the "TTA" surgery performed. it has been nine days since the surgery, and i am very pleased with the outcome so far. do not wait any longer than you have to. make the decision on type of surgery and the surgeon, and get it done as soon possible. the longer you put it off - the more arthritis affects the joint. i live in south eastern Pa. - so if you would like to pm me feel free.


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## [email protected]@##? (Jan 19, 2005)

I am going thru this right now with my 4 year old Chessie. I would definitely NOT recommend the do nothing approach if you want to run or hunt your dog again or avoid severe arthritis. My dog has a partial ACL tear and is seeing a surgeon/specialist about TTA v. TPLO surgery. Aspirin and Deramax will only mask the true injury. While we are waiting on surgery, my 85lb dog (he is tall and not fat) is on ½ of a Deramax. By the next day, he was starting to run around like nothing was wrong and back to his usual activities. I know his ACL wasn’t cured, only the pain was masked. I have cut it down to 1/3 a day so he does not run a round like a mad man and hurt himself further awaiting surgery. Sucking up the $3,500+ surgery and long and expensive rehab is no fun, but I can’t see the do nothing approach working for a dog that is young and going to be active. Maybe it happens, and for those who do it great, but I don’t think the odds are in your favor. I might consider it if I had an older dog. I did come across that anti TPLO site/link. It is interesting info, but it is all anecdotal. If you see how a dog’s knee is aligned, it is no wonder active dogs blow out ACLs so often. It is (almost) designed to fail. The wait and see approach does nothing to change the geometry/alignment of the joint and/or to prevent future blow-outs. Just my 2 cents and each person should make their own decision……


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## Richard Fuquay (Jun 4, 2006)

I have recently anguished over this issue regarding my 2 year old chessie. He is big, but lean. He came up lame one day after training, but neither his vet nor the ortho specialist could diagnose a CCL tear. Without such a diagnosis I would not agree to the TPLO procedure. It is very invasive and while I would likely agree to it with a diagnosis, I could not subject my puppy to this procedure otherwise. There are those who think that this procedure is over used due to its financial windfall to vets. While I do not necessarily subscribe to this theory, I do wonder how I could be expected to agree to such an extreme procedure without a definitve diagnosis. I know that my input may make your choice more difficult, but I think that all input is useful. FYI: Mac seems to be fine after 8 weeks off and gradual reintroduction to training. We are two months back. Mac may eventually require TPLO, but I could not bring myself to commit to it under these circumstances.


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## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

I went to the ortho vet and she does have a partially torn CCL. So she will have a TPLO tommorow. The vet said the recovery is about 4 months. Hope everything goes well.

Scott


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## JoAnn Stancer (Oct 17, 2006)

Good luck with the surgery. If you follow the vets recommendations I don't think you will have a problem. Key is also doing some massage, flexion and extention physical therapy the days following the surgery, keep up with physical therapy and then when can really do therapy I would suggest the hydro therapy, healing process goes quite quickly when that is done. I had a partial tear on my chessie 4 years ago, did the tplo and put him back in training 5 months later. He has yet tore his other side. I could e-mail you our physical therapy instructions if you would like.


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## Larkin (Feb 4, 2005)

bayshooter said:


> He came up lame one day after training, but neither his vet nor the ortho specialist could diagnose a CCL tear. Without such a diagnosis I would not agree to the TPLO procedure.


Bayshooter,
I was in your shoes about a year ago with a very promising American Foxhound (our other breed). She was lame in one rear leg, had a little heat in the leg, and was very uncomfortable with flexing. 

She was not quite a year at the time and the idea of keeping her confined for a long period made me wonder what kind of sedatives _I_ was going to have to take! She had radiographs done of the joint, in several positions. They were inconclusive. The vet was deeply concerned about a partial ACL tear, but wasn't entirely convinced there was one. But something sure was bugging her. 

I watched very carefully as he manipulated the joint. Could it be her toe? I asked. He was cradling her foot in his hand to move the joint and each time he moved it a certain way, she yelped. He shot film of her foot ... and there is was, _a sprained toe_. He charged me $40 for the whole afternoon's worth of work, and refused to charge for the films. I was so giddy with relief that I would have paid anyway, and happily. 

Because ACLs are relatively common with active dogs, and TPLOs get a fair amount of exposure, I think there is a tendency to go there first. But there can be a hundred things that go wrong with a dog's running gear, and once in a great while we get lucky and its simple. I hope that's the case with your guy.


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## labraiser (Feb 5, 2004)

My girl Suzie did not have CCL TPLO surgery today. The ortho vet put her under anesthesia to move her leg and take some fluid to determine the extent injury. She had only slight looseness in the knee. They like to put the dog under to relax the muscles and feel the true laxness of the knee joint. They withdrew some fluid. The fluid looked normal. Injured fluid is yellowish. 

So what the vet did was he injected her knee with cortizone. If she walks with no lameness then we know it's he knee for sure. If she still limps with the cortizone, then most likely it a soft tissue injury somewhere else. So we will wait a month to see what happens. My ortho vet does think she has a slight tear. He does not want to do the surgery until he is 100% sure it's a tear. almost all tears not matter how small have to be repaired. Doing nothing just will add severe arthritis over time. It's nice to know he not knife or money happy. He really cares about the dogs.

Scott


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## Bina (Jan 20, 2017)

labraiser said:


> My girl Suzie did not have CCL TPLO surgery today. The ortho vet put her under anesthesia to move her leg and take some fluid to determine the extent injury. She had only slight looseness in the knee. They like to put the dog under to relax the muscles and feel the true laxness of the knee joint. They withdrew some fluid. The fluid looked normal. Injured fluid is yellowish.
> 
> So what the vet did was he injected her knee with cortizone. If she walks with no lameness then we know it's he knee for sure. If she still limps with the cortizone, then most likely it a soft tissue injury somewhere else. So we will wait a month to see what happens. My ortho vet does think she has a slight tear. He does not want to do the surgery until he is 100% sure it's a tear. almost all tears not matter how small have to be repaired. Doing nothing just will add severe arthritis over time. It's nice to know he not knife or money happy. He really cares about the dogs.
> 
> Scott


I know this is an old thema, but I would like to hear how this eneded. Labraiser, did you Suzie had a TPLO or not? Did she had any problems with knee or not?
My female has also a partial tear (I think already few months) and I'm reading and thinking what to do 
Thank you for your answer!


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Bina said:


> I know this is an old thema, but I would like to hear how this eneded. Labraiser, did you Suzie had a TPLO or not? Did she had any problems with knee or not?
> My female has also a partial tear (I think already few months) and I'm reading and thinking what to do
> Thank you for your answer!


If your dog has a partial tear have it repaired by whatever method. 
If you're on the fence whether or not ccl is actually torn then pony up for an MRI image. OR ortho vet Could do exploratory o-scope to confirm tear etc etc. Doing nothing with suspected tear, in a matter of weeks collateral damage can pile up. 
If nothing is done and all seems fine either dog didn't actually suffer ccl insult or micro tears if present haven't grown for who knows what reason. 
Usually, due to costs of mri and explorations, most take the leap of faith and trust experienced ortho vets drawer findings to make go/no go decision.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

I have had six torn cruciates in my dogs over the years. And I have spoken to some of the best experts from all over the country about cruciate injuries.

1. If the cruciate is partially torn, it will completely tear. It is only a matter of time.
2. The longer you wait, the more likely you are to damage the menicus in the joint.
3. The more damage you create to the menicus, the greater the joint damage, and the more severe the eventual arthritis will be in the joint.

Don't talk to an everyday doctor. Talk to a specialist that deals with this day in, day out.

Rest will not cure the injury. I am appalled that some people think that it will

Ted


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## Bina (Jan 20, 2017)

First I'm sorry for language and all mistakes. English is not my first language 
Second, why it took so long? At the beggining my vet thought she has panosteitis. Occasionally she was limping, but not always and not much (only few first steps). Later I could see that she is not putting the whole weight on this leg. In December a specialist suggested TPLO. Today she can still run, jump, walk... the only sign is, that when she is standing, she is not putting the whole weight to this leg. That's why is decision for TPLO so hard for me.... 
I have a few friend with dogs with same problem (partially torn). They didn't decide for an operation and they are all fine (without problems). 
Otherwise I have a date for surgery for next week....


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## redline (Apr 19, 2003)

Went to a well known surgeon near Chicago (Aurora VCA not a cheap place) cost $4300.00 included followups.
while on the subject Bubba seems the get infections near the plate. Doc said he could remove the plate, is this something worth thinking about.
Assume it's better to leave it if at all possible. Antibiotics clear it up think this condition will dissipate? Been about 4 mos.
He concurred with the theme here by the way, they dont heal . Bubbas was 50%.
Thx Jan


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## Bina (Jan 20, 2017)

do you have any videos of your dogs how they were walking wirh partil tear of ACL?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Bina said:


> do you have any videos of your dogs how they were walking wirh partil tear of ACL?


You said:


> Today she can still run, jump, walk... the only sign is, that *when she is standing, she is not putting the whole weight to this leg.*


I don't have a video, but this is characteristic of what they do, and that's not put weight on that leg, even intermittently, especially when standing. I had one that did that, and then I rested him over winter and on the first retrieve in the spring he ruptured it all the way and came back on 3 legs. Listen to Dr Ed #3 and #14


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Many good orth surgeons are not so good at rehab, especially for a competitive dog. Rehab docs can spot things we cannot and design programs to bring dog back close to 100%. 

I say all this from personal experience. Wish I would have found Doctor J several years earlier.


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## Bina (Jan 20, 2017)

ErinsEdge said:


> You said:
> I don't have a video, but this is characteristic of what they do, and that's not put weight on that leg, even intermittently, especially when standing. I had one that did that, and then I rested him over winter and on the first retrieve in the spring he ruptured it all the way and came back on 3 legs. Listen to Dr Ed #3 and #14


so operation


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## Kim Rygwood (May 27, 2013)

In my opinion it's better to bite the bullet and get on the road to recovery sooner vice later. Not ideal, but better for the dog in the long term.

Sherman Canapp at VOSM is phenomenal and is actively involved in research. Recommend calling asap to get an appointment on the books because it might be a bit of a wait.


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## Bina (Jan 20, 2017)

I just came home. She was operated today. I hope this was the right decision....


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

We had one done awhile back.TPLO. Kept him in laundry room(confined space). I didnt fall threw with the rehab I had started.He seems fine but I havnt been training much. Do notice his leg shivering some times. Cost about 2800-3k. I borrowed against equity in a loan and paid for all costs and follow ups and anothers up front. Not advice , just what I did or didnt do


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