# Feeling kinda violated



## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Vet called this morning with the exact charges for the EIC test.
$205
Let's see $65 to the U of Minn lab and $45 to Fed Ex. I'd say he made a little on that transaction...


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

So he charged $95 to draw the blood and package it???

Must have a nice vacation coming up!


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Holy crap. :-x


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

It doesn't surprise me. I am sure it is a PIA for the vet and staff, especially with the learning curve involved.


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## Kevin WI (Mar 14, 2003)

Jeez....the students came to our FT and just did mouth swabs for free.....I had my dog done even though he was a golden....just for the heck of it.
Don't they do mouth swabs that you can send in yourself?


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

$100 to the vet
I used to work there. I know they save all the gel packs and boxes from the vaccines they purchase so that they can be re-used. So there was no cost there. And FedEx comes there to pick up the shipments.
I got charged $100 for 10 minutes of his time (at the most), a syringe and a 3ml purple top tube.


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## Pepper Dawg (Sep 26, 2007)

Rick_C said:


> So he charged $95 to draw the blood and package it???
> 
> Must have a nice vacation coming up!


So, in your mind what would a fair fee be if that is all he did? Just curious.:razz:


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

achiro said:


> It doesn't surprise me. I am sure it is a PIA for the vet and staff, especially with the learning curve involved.


I emailed him all of the infomation from the U of Minn site on Monday. I told him how to do everything.


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

That's wild.




Richard


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Pepper Dawg said:


> So, in your mind what would a fair fee be if that is all he did? Just curious.:razz:


I was expecting him to charge about $50.


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## Pepper Dawg (Sep 26, 2007)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> I was expecting him to charge about $50.


Would you consider calling him and telling him your concerns and letting him know what his service is worth to you? I agree with you and I would bet that he would too.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> I emailed him all of the infomation from the U of Minn site on Monday. I told him how to do everything.


Hey, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying it doesn't surprise me. I'm sure my vet will be similar, ESPECIALLY if I get charged the normal $40 "look at the animal" fee.


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## maryandkimo (Sep 29, 2004)

Pepper Dawg said:


> So, in your mind what would a fair fee be if that is all he did? Just curious.:razz:



I get blood drawn to send out on a fairly regular basis. I do the mailing myself and they charge 10 dollars to draw the blood. 

I would be calling the vet and nicely questioning what the charges were for. Could have been a mistake at the front desk?
mary


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

My Vet hasn't billed me yet but she told me that her fee would be $10. When she did the CNM test with swabs she didn't even charge me.....Next time plan to drive on down here and I'll make you an appointment.


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> $100 to the vet
> I used to work there. I know they save all the gel packs and boxes from the vaccines they purchase so that they can be re-used. So there was no cost there. And FedEx comes there to pick up the shipments.
> I got charged $100 for 10 minutes of his time (at the most), a syringe and a 3ml purple top tube.


Seems high to me. On the other hand, it also seems to me that it would take more than 10 minutes to:

Read the instructions
Fill out the forms
Label the tubes
Prepare the syringe and tubes for use
Draw the blood
Package the samples and prepare for shipment
Notify FedEx of need for pickup (unless they pickup every day anyway)

Also, what is the cost of the syringe, the tube and the disposal cost for the needle?

Not saying $100 is appropriate, only that it adds up.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

He usually charges $40 for the office call and I figured $10 for the syringe and the tube. That seems fair. 
All that and I prolly paid $20 gas just to get there and back home. I have a vet a couple of blocks away and she is very good. Gonna call to see how much they would charge...I have a couple more dogs to test.


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## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

Sherri call the vet you have the problem with, you said you use to work for him, you should be able to discuss this with him. Just ask for a fee breakdown, he should be willing to comply, if this is a new procedure to him, it may require a learning curve for him to understand that there may be many more in your area that need the test done also. bud


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

jeff t. said:


> Seems high to me. On the other hand, it also seems to me that it would take more than 10 minutes to:
> 
> Read the instructions
> Fill out the forms
> ...


*I *sent him the directions Monday. *I *had all the paperwork filled out. (He signed it.)
*I *got her up on the table and held her. He scanned for the microchip, put the tourniquet on her leg, unwrapped the syringe, drew the blood and put it right in the tube. Tech labeled the tube. I would guess it took 5-10 minutes to package it and address the box, but that was done by a tech.


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## LavenderLabs (Aug 28, 2005)

man I would love to get my dogs EIC test done. but I cant afford 200 dollars right now. I can't beleave it ends up that much


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> *I *sent him the directions Monday. *I *had all the paperwork filled out. (He signed it.)
> *I *got her up on the table and held her. He scanned for the microchip, put the tourniquet on her leg, unwrapped the syringe, drew the blood and put it right in the tube. Tech labeled the tube. I would guess it took 5-10 minutes to package it and address the box, but that was done by a tech.


I wonder what they charge for more common types of lab work (not done in-house) involving shipment of blood samples...do you think it is lower?

Jeff


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> $100 to the vet
> I used to work there. I know they save all the gel packs and boxes from the vaccines they purchase so that they can be re-used. So there was no cost there. And FedEx comes there to pick up the shipments.
> I got charged $100 for 10 minutes of his time (at the most), a syringe and a 3ml purple top tube.[/QUOTE
> 
> The clinic Topshelf is trying to set up is looking better all of the time. Still working on it Matt. Hope to have an answer by mid-week.


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## cgoeson (Jan 22, 2008)

I realize you probably have a limited number of vet's in your area, but I would be on the phone with the vet giving them the opportunity to keep my business by crediting me back some of that money. $100 is just excessive. The vet didn't even see my dog, a tech took her into the back and brought her out 5 minutes later all done.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

That's why I am probably going to end up drawing them myself and happy I am able to. I have saved containers, gel packs, and tubes unless I can get a reasonable quote.


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

cgoeson said:


> The vet didn't even see my dog, a tech took her into the back and brought her out 5 minutes later all done.


If the vet didn't see your dog, how could he/she sign that he/she had verified the microchip number?


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

The one thing not being considered is overhead. Everything costs more in Alaska. I would call him and discuss the fee before venting on the internet. A fair price is what a reasonable buyer is willing to pay and what a reasonable seller is willing to accept. To keep your business he may well discount the fee. As this is a new procedure he may have just thrown out a number as he was headed to deal with his next patient. It is partially your fault because you didn't ask what fees would be charged. Most of these disputes can easily be handled with a phone call and some polite conversation.

Good luck on the results
Mark L.


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## cgoeson (Jan 22, 2008)

Lady Duck Hunter said:


> If the vet didn't see your dog, how could he/she sign that he/she had verified the microchip number?


Tech did it.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Mark,
The office visit was yesterday. The vet told me, "I'll call tomorrow with the amount." I got a call first thing this morning letting me know I owe $205.
In the span of 20 minutes, I paid for 2 puppies to be vaccinated. (Office call+ vaccine charge for each.) Then paid for Noodle's fees. I would think he could pay for his overhead easily with the other office calls scheduled for the rest of the hour.
I called to talk to him about the fees and was told by the office staff that that is the normal mark up.


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

But the form doesn't ask for the Tech to verify the ID of the dog, it asks for the vet to verify....is says specifically, "*To be completed by attending veterinarian:*" Then there is a place to mark that, "I DID verify tatoo/microchip on this dog." or, "I DID NOT verify tattoo/microchip on this dog." followed by a signature line and date.


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## nimloth (Jul 10, 2008)

maryandkimo said:


> I get blood drawn to send out on a fairly regular basis. I do the mailing myself and they charge 10 dollars to draw the blood.


Same here. That is why I questioned the statement on the bottom of the form about the sample being sent directly from the vet to the lab. I usually take care of all that myself and have both a FedX and USPS account, so can print my own labels and drop them at the right place for pickup. I did get the clarification that if the ID verification was signed, the vet office did not have to do the mailing. 

I had blood drawn on 4 dogs on Tuesday - $40 vet bill. I packaged it in a Priority Mail box (free from the post office) with freezer pack (from vaccine I bought) and insulated padding (from mailed prescription) . Sent it Priority Mail for $5.29 I appreciate that the vet office would have had to put the paper towels in each baggie with the blood tube and then put them in a box and package it all up, etc. I certainly wouldn't want to pay them what THEY charge for the 20 minutes it took me to get the mailing done and what they might charge for the materials which were free to me  

Just call me penny pincher, I guess. :lol:


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Not justifying $100 for 10 mins of a vets time... but there is way more than 10 mins of a vets time involved here. Probably cost them $15 in overhead just to check you in and check you out by the time you figure employee labor + burden, software, CC fees, etc... It will then cost another $15 to do the accounting on your transaction. Add into that occupying their building space, property, utilities, etc... and the vet likely cleared $40 for his 10 mins doing the work, 10+ mins reading your email, and 10+ mins communicating with staff regarding your case before and after you are gone. Assuming thats semi accurate, the vet is only profitting $60-$80 an hour. Thats awful low for a Dr of any kind.

Either way, i'd be pissed at spending $100 for it too! 

SM


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

Overhead is a real killer!!! If you are unhappy and they won't discuss it with you, then find a new vet. I agree that the fee sounds excessive but I don't write the checks for his payroll/rent/utilities. 

Wishing clear results
Mark L.


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

In the company I own we do not have a high volume of customers but I would charge 70.00 for a paper bag full of air. 

That said for a larger vet office with staff that can do most of the work it seems high. It may be the for for the pain in the azz of doing something out of the norm.


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## DSemple (Feb 16, 2008)

In my work selling and dealing with contractors I have a hidden cost line item, that I sometime use, thats called the "AH Factor". 

....Don


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## Wyldfire (Sep 24, 2003)

Just back from the vet. Had 2 dogs drawn for EIC. Costs were $65 x2 for the tests, $45 to overnight the blood, and $17 X2 to draw, fill out the paperwork and ship. So to have 2 dogs tested our total cost was $209.


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

My guess is a vet with very little competition would charge $100 for drawing blood where most would charge $50.00.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

I was just quoted from my Vet 40$ for everything they have to do including shipping.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

I've spent more money at that clinic than I care to think about within the last 6 years and have never complained about a bill before. (Not even when I was charged $40 a pup for microchipping my last 2 litters.)

Just heard from the clinic down the street from me and they will charge me $160 (TOTAL)to do the EIC test and swab for CNM. Plus, I save $20 in gas. The vet who owns the clinic helped whelp Noodle's first litter at another clinic in town when she worked there. The first thing she asked was how Noodle was doing...Kinda impressed me that she would remember that.


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

I was just quoted $180.50 for the draw and ship plus the $65.00 for the U of M. Thats $245.50 for a ten minute blood draw! Add on the CNM, CERF, and OFA and were deep in the hole before a single puppy is born.


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

It's simple really, find out, up front, what the charge is going to be and make your determination based on that.
Guessing what your going to get charged is bound to be disapointing.


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## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

Mine was 65.00 for the test,35.00 shipping,10.00 to draw the blood.


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

My vet gave me a quote of appx $180.00 for blood draw and ship. I live 40 miles from the EIC test site. I talked to Katie at the U they have now dropped the direct ship requirement from the vet. New vet $40.00 for the blood draw and I will either mail or deliver myself. Thats crazy to be charged $140.00 to mail the sample 40 miles.


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## goldust (May 12, 2005)

It sounds like we will be having EIC clinics just like we do for Optigen.

I'm going to bring it up at our next club meeting.


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## 3 dog knight (Jul 9, 2003)

goldust said:


> It sounds like we will be having EIC clinics just like we do for Optigen.
> 
> I'm going to bring it up at our next club meeting.


Sounds like a good idea to me... 

3DK


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## Hew (Jan 7, 2003)

> In my work selling and dealing with contractors I have a hidden cost line item, that I sometime use, thats called the "AH Factor".
> 
> ....Don


LOL. I'm a contractor and I have a hidden fee schedule for customers that I sometimes use. It's called "The D***** Bag Multiplier."


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## DSMITH1651 (Feb 23, 2008)

Tstreg said:


> My vet gave me a quote of appx $180.00 for blood draw and ship. I live 40 miles from the EIC test site. I talked to Katie at the U they have now dropped the direct ship requirement from the vet. New vet $40.00 for the blood draw and I will either mail or deliver myself. Thats crazy to be charged $140.00 to mail the sample 40 miles.


what vet are you using i live in your area,
Duane 
PS check your pm


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

We have always called it the PITA fee and it can be liberally applied if the situation warrants.

Mark L.


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## Alan Sandifer (Oct 17, 2007)

I aint gona complain , my vet drew the blood and i even got one of them fancy purple tops and he charged me $20 and i shipped it overnight for under $30 .


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

Pepper Dawg said:


> So, in your mind what would a fair fee be if that is all he did? Just curious.:razz:


A fair fee would be the price of the office visit. I have no problem with a vet, or any business, charging what the market will bear -- but this is a little ridiculous. All he did was collect a blood sample... 

That's like my paying almost $600-ish to CERF 8 or 10 dogs or puppies. It was all done in 45 minutes. I about threw up when they told me the price, which had GREATLY escalated since the last time I was there. I had expected to pay 1/2 that amount. It's a two hour drive and I go there because I really trust the vet, but not sure I'll be returning... I'll call next time and talk with her about it if she's willing to listen. But I think $600 for 45 minutes time and an envelope and postage to CERF is a little much. There are really great attorneys that don't make that... And probably plenty of MDs...

-K


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

I took four dogs in Monday afternoon. The forms were ready, my vet ID'd each dog and we shuffled them in and out of the office very quickly. I paid the bill for $298 (total) and went home. 

I was told on the way out the door, if the shipping comes out higher than he expected, I'll have to buy him a beer or two in South Dakota on our October pheasant trip.


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## Changinlat (Mar 7, 2008)

Long time lurker, but seldom poster. I'm not a vet, but I'm married to one. And since I write a check equivalent to a (nice) car payment every month to pay off the school loans (just as I have for the past 7 years and will continue to do for the next 23 years) I just had to say something on this one.



Last Frontier Labs said:


> *I *sent him the directions Monday. *I *had all the paperwork filled out. (He signed it.)
> *I *got her up on the table and held her. He scanned for the microchip, put the tourniquet on her leg, unwrapped the syringe, drew the blood and put it right in the tube. Tech labeled the tube. I would guess it took 5-10 minutes to package it and address the box, but that was done by a tech.


Do you think your vet is the kind of person that will receive a completed, official document from you and sign it without thinking twice? You don't think he is the kind of vet that would want to research this new test before taking your dog's blood and your money? If you think that, then I agree you paid more than you should for the quality of service you're willing to receive. And if he is like that, then you definitely paid more than he was worth. If you go to your vet because he is ethical and practices high quality medicine, then you should expect him to put much more effort into the cases you bring in than just the 10 - 30 minutes you witness. Do you really think because you sent an email and held the dog, your vet didn't do any work or incur any expenses? Not to mention you should be impressed that he took the blood himself. Techs do that at 90% of the vet clinics in this country. Says to me that he is interested in you, your dog and this new test you were apparently introducing him to. How much is that worth to you?



Shayne Mehringer said:


> Not justifying $100 for 10 mins of a vets time... but there is way more than 10 mins of a vets time involved here. Probably cost them $15 in overhead just to check you in and check you out by the time you figure employee labor + burden, software, CC fees, etc... It will then cost another $15 to do the accounting on your transaction. Add into that occupying their building space, property, utilities, etc... and the vet likely cleared $40 for his 10 mins doing the work, 10+ mins reading your email, and 10+ mins communicating with staff regarding your case before and after you are gone. Assuming thats semi accurate, the vet is only profitting $60-$80 an hour. Thats awful low for a Dr of any kind.
> 
> Either way, i'd be pissed at spending $100 for it too!
> 
> SM


This is the only post I saw that even mentioned some of the oft-forgotten costs a vet clinic has. And it still didn't come close to painting the whole picture. (And then you had to ruin it by saying you would be pissed.) Did I mention the vet school loans we're still paying on? How about continuing education? CE is required by law and it isn't free. In fact, most small clinic owners don't reimburse their associate vets for any CE costs. If you want your dog to receive quality care, you should insist that any vet you visit takes his/her CE seriously. I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking that CE opportunities in Alaska may be a little slim. There's probably some travel involved for him - making it even more expensive.

Do you think your vet's X-Ray machine is any cheaper than the one the hospital used when your son broke his arm playing Tball. Do you think the ultra-sound machine is any different than the one that took a picture of your unborn child in your second trimester? How much did the hospital bill your insurance company? How much would they have billed you if you hadn't had insurance. How much does your health insurance cost your family? Do you know what it costs a small business owner - if they even offer it? And we haven't even talked about liability insurance yet. The same people that whine and moan about high vet bills are the same ones that turn around and file a law suit when their vet can't save Fluffy from ________ (rat poison, heat exhaustion, congenital heart problem, pick one). We all want Ritz Carlton service at Bates Motel prices, but it's a joke. A fallacy.

I know inflation is a killer right now and we're all paying more for the same services. But it pays to remember you get what you pay for. It makes my blood boil everytime someone says they got ripped off for _______ (vaccines, dental cleaning, office visit, pick one or fill in your own). It's the vet's knowledge, experience and education you're paying for. The OP went in for a blood draw, felt the cost was too high, and is now thinking about switching vets. How many patients do you think he (or any vet) would keep if he were gouging every client that came through the door? 

I know a lot of vets. Being married to one, it goes with the territory. None of them drive Ferrarris or live in mansions or have ski chalets in St. Moritz. They're making middle class salaries and working darn hard in the process. Not one of them went to vet school to get rich. They all did it because they love animals. Mine gave up a full scholarship to medical school in favor of vet school and a 30 year loan. There are only 23 vet schools in the U.S. They are harder to get into than medical school and on average are equally as expensive. These are honest people that worked hard so they could do what they love.

I'm not saying there aren't high-priced vets out there. I'm saying put some thought into where your money goes. And while you're at it, put some thought into your words before you post them on the world wide web. Even on the internet, words mean something. If you wouldn't say it to your vet in person, then you shouldn't be posting it here. And if you would say it to your vet in person, then you should have done that first.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

Changinlat said:


> Long time lurker, but seldom poster. I'm not a vet, but I'm married to one. And since I write a check equivalent to a (nice) car payment every month to pay off the school loans (just as I have for the past 7 years and will continue to do for the next 23 years) I just had to say something on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was married to a vet (until he passed away) and I'm sorry, regardless of the fixed and variable costs of operating a business AND student loans, there is absolutely NO reasonable way to come up with $140 above and beyond the cost of the test. Spare me... That is BAD BUSINESS. It's taking advantage of the fact that it's a new test that people NEED and YES, it's capitalism at it's best. And I'm all for that in one respect. But give me a break that your (OR MY) husband would have spent THAT amount of money in time "researching" the test. There's no excuse to charge that much to draw blood and send a test off. If so, then they should charge that much for drawing tick titers and everything else out there -- AND THEY DON'T. 

My husband did extra stuff at his clinic, arranged for the purchase of an ultrasound unit and did all the training -- he was the only vet in the clinic that knew how to use it. They charged a reasonable and competitive fee for ultrasound. It wasn't cheap, but it was exorbitant either. There is NO EXCUSE for charging that much. There is no additional cost, no extensive amount of time or CE credits for drawing blood for what is the equivalent of ANY OTHER lab test.

Build all your expenses into the average costs of the products and services at your clinic. Don't gouge one item because it's new and someone needs it. Sure, charge a little more... Because it IS new and it IS needed. If there's anything that's specialty -- like ultrasound, laser surgery, etc. -- then those items can absorb their own expenses. But to charge $140 over and above the cost of the test, there is no business model that fits that unless you're RIPPING PEOPLE OFF.

Please try to justify that amount to me... It makes absolutely no sense from a business perspective. 

-K


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

fishduck said:


> We have always called it the PITA fee and it can be liberally applied if the situation warrants.
> 
> Mark L.


Joie called it a "goober reduction fee" - always loved saying that!


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

Am I living in lalaland??? Over $100 to draw blood??? You could get THE ENTIRE LABWORK DONE for less than that probably at most vets??? My vet does blood chemistry for $65.... I know that's relatively inexpensive compared to a lot of vets, but still. The costs just do not line up. I'm just shocked. I guess because I can't imagine taking all my dogs in to do the tests at some of these clinics, it would cost me $2400????? for 12 dogs and maybe an hour MAX to draw all the blood on them.

This makes no sense...

-K


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

ErinsEdge said:


> That's why I am probably going to end up drawing them myself and happy I am able to. I have saved containers, gel packs, and tubes unless I can get a reasonable quote.


So you can just heparinize it, put the blood in and send it off? They don't need to spin it down or anything? Good to know... I've been practicing drawing blood occasionally... I'm not too terribly good at it, but sounds like a good time to learn! LOL


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Changinlat,
Did you bother to read all my posts? 
I bring my dogs in for yearly exams, vaccs and teeth cleaning. Heck, I even buy Science Diet j/d for my old dog from there at $70/bag.
I bring all the pups from my litters there for dews, vaccs and microchips. I have never complained about a bill.
I would venture to guess that in the last year I spent over $4000 at this vet. He has gotten several new clients because I recommended him to puppy buyers.

I thought the price for the EIC test was out of line and called. I was told that was a standard markup. I have called another clinic and been quoted a reasonable price for that test. I will be going there.


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## Wyldfire (Sep 24, 2003)

> So you can just heparinize it, put the blood in and send it off? They don't need to spin it down or anything?


Don't heparinize, draw put it into a EDTA tube and send the tube. Test uses whole blood not plasma.


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

I too, am a lurker married to a DVM. It's not a profitable profession (at least for an associate). But again neither again is dog breeding.. thus the rub when it comes to money. However, go to a lawyer, plumber, mechanic or electrician and you will spend the same money or more for an half hour of work that required MUCH less education and overhead. On average, this stuff works out in the long run. People often forget the breaks their DVM have given them over the years and only remember the times they feel left on the short end of the stick.

Honestly, my wife goes the other way when the work "dog breeder" comes up.


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## Changinlat (Mar 7, 2008)

Kristie Wilder said:


> Please try to justify that amount to me... It makes absolutely no sense from a business perspective.
> 
> -K


First, I'm very sorry for the loss of your husband. 

Second, I can't justify anything this vet or any other vet charges. I don't know the O/H and labor costs associated with running a clinic in Alaska. And I certainly can't speak to that level of detail based on a total of $205 without having seen the OP's itemized statement. That's why I didn't attempt to justify the costs in my first post.

As is most often the case on internet forums, (thus my reason for very rarely posting) you completely missed my point. Granted it was long-winded and wordy, so I can hardly blame you if you didn't read it in it's entirety.

So, in advance of additional people missing my point, I will try to make it clear in a sentence or two. At which time, I'll consider my case made and whether I changed anyone's mind or not, you'll likely not hear from me again for at least another 6 months or so. Sorry if that offends, but I learn much more from reading than from posting. 

My point is that anytime we (including me) get a large and/or unexpected bill, our first impulse is to scream "Rip Off" or "Scam" which quickly turns to "All ________ (vets, lawyers, car salesmen, pick one) are crooks and are ripping us off." (Admittedly, I'm extrapolating somewhat from a conversation very similar to this post that we had after a club training session recently.) 

In my first post, I merely came to the defense of Veterinarians everywhere and suggested that people think a bit about the profession and the people who choose that profession before being so quick to accuse them of dishonesty. (If you want to accuse them of being bad at business, I'll not argue. But it's usually because they're suckers and give away free services for sick animals, not because they charge too much.) Secondly, I felt the need to suggest that people should think before they post - keeping mind the rule that if you wouldn't say it in person, then don't post it here. (A rule I have actually used myself several times this evening.) Whether you agree with my other comments or not, I still think that is good advice.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

My vet came to the kennel. Charged me a 60.00 ranch call and 10.00 a head to pull blood .
Fedex charges are pending.
thats it.
I filled out all the paperwork, typed up labels to go on each tube. His tech scanned the dogs and verified numbers and we were done.

now-that said, he was here because my regular vet violated me too!
Spayed a 6 yr old bitch two weeks ago, charged me 322.00 for the surgery alone, 70.00 extra $$ for anesthetic ,18.00 day patient and 18.00 pain shot.
I usually have dogs spayed for 90.00 including anesth/day patient and surgery.! I took it up to him and he said she was a 'big dog who took a long time' (this bitch was 55-60lbs tops-soaking wet). 
I was shocked and insulted it was 425.00 to do a 45 minute spay.(usually 20 min he said).
So I'm looking to give some business to the other vet for awhile. My average bill at vet#1 is about 6-800 a month, and last month was over 2000. do to a TPLO surgery.
Usually his fees are VERY REASONABLE- butthis was over the top...


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

Kristie Wilder said:


> A fair fee would be the price of the office visit. I have no problem with a vet, or any business, charging what the market will bear -- but this is a little ridiculous. All he did was collect a blood sample...
> 
> That's like my paying almost $600-ish to CERF 8 or 10 dogs or puppies. It was all done in 45 minutes. I about threw up when they told me the price, which had GREATLY escalated since the last time I was there. I had expected to pay 1/2 that amount. It's a two hour drive and I go there because I really trust the vet, but not sure I'll be returning... I'll call next time and talk with her about it if she's willing to listen. But I think $600 for 45 minutes time and an envelope and postage to CERF is a little much. There are really great attorneys that don't make that... And probably plenty of MDs...
> 
> -K


Hi Kristie!
What city is the vet you drove 2 hours to? Curiosity I suppose, but I'm really NOT happy with the local vets here in Suwanee and I'm driving 45 minutes to a vet...just wondering if we're hitting the same one?
Karen


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> Spayed a 6 yr old bitch two weeks ago, charged me 322.00 for the surgery alone, 70.00 extra $$ for anesthetic ,18.00 day patient and 18.00 pain shot.
> I usually have dogs spayed for 90.00 including anesth/day patient and surgery.! I took it up to him and he said she was a 'big dog who took a long time' (this bitch was 55-60lbs tops-soaking wet).


Guess what, around here that's reasonable. I got quotes from 3 vets about 5 years ago and they were all around $500 for a 6 year old spay. Anesthetic charge is reasonable too.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Changinlat said:


> And I certainly can't speak to that level of detail based on a total of $205 without having seen the OP's itemized statement. That's why I didn't attempt to justify the costs in my first post.


Statement
$65- U of Minn fee
$45- FedEx
$10- Packaging fee (Packaging materials are recycled from drugs shipped to them, so I am guessing it was for typing and printing the label.)
$85- Fee for drawing a 3ml tube of blood -This was actually lumped together with the U of Minn fee and called "Lab fees".




Changinlat said:


> My point is that anytime we (including me) get a large and/or unexpected bill, our first impulse is to scream "Rip Off" or "Scam" which quickly turns to "All ________ (vets, lawyers, car salesmen, pick one) are crooks and are ripping us off." (Admittedly, I'm extrapolating somewhat from a conversation very similar to this post that we had after a club training session recently.)


I am a hobby breeder. I don't make any money off this hobby. I have seen high bills from this vet before and paid them, but this was just over the top. The vet I'll be seeing next time is charging $160 vs. $205 for exactly the same service and will do the CNM swab for no extra cost.
I have never "price shopped" for a vet before today, but this just got under my skin.


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## D Osborn (Jul 19, 2004)

Girls in Ga-

Dr. Martin will do cerfs at his house for a reasonable amount, and my eye dr comes to Greenville and will do them at 65 a dog.
I never can remember which vet I like at UGA, so just don't go there, but Martin is in Athens.
I got charged 52 for a rabies shot. I was miffed bacause that was all she did, and my dog had been there often enough so he did not get an exam, I called and they credited my account. I normally would not have cared, but had run up over 1200 in 2 days, and 600 in one and figured enough was enough, that 40 could help!! Overall my vet is reasonable, and she did charge me 40 for the prcd blood draw, which was fine. I filled out what I could, the tech did the rest, vet did the blood draw. Such is life.


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> Changinlat,
> Did you bother to read all my posts?
> I bring my dogs in for yearly exams, vaccs and teeth cleaning. Heck, I even buy Science Diet j/d for my old dog from there at $70/bag.
> I bring all the pups from my litters there for dews, vaccs and microchips. I have never complained about a bill.
> ...


 
It's always hell to find out you have been supporting a scoundrel-of-sorts. I think you have come to the correct conclusion. Just mebbe, if he has any conscience at all, he will come to realize how much he can use a customer like you.

On the flip side of this coin, and I'm hoping you won't think I'm being an arsehole bringing this up....but I'm wondering how much it would be worth in a remote area like your home, if you didn't have any vet available? 

This isn't meant to aggravate your feelings any more than they have been, and I'm sure there's a little sadness on your part to have to break away from this relationship under these circumstances. I'm sure much of your hurt falls in the category of deserving better from him than what you got.

I'm no doubt the last guy that should be entering this thread, but whenever I get seemingly gouged, especially when I didn't see it coming, I'm always happy I have enough to cover it, and can walk away indignantly, but with my principles intact.

Hope your new vet is everything you are looking for.

UB


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## Wyldfire (Sep 24, 2003)

I'm thankful that my vet has been eagerly awaiting the test for EIC for a few other clients that she fears are affected.
She told me today that she hated to see tests like EIC get marked up anymore than necessary, so she drew the blood, checked the microchips and signed the paperwork, ( we took it in pre-filled out for her.) 
When the vet tech she handed the tubes too was finished packaging the tubes for shipment etc. I put the forms and my check to U of Minnesota in the box myself, the tech sealed the box and handed it back to me. ( That way they only had to charge me the customary draw fee ) 
I took the box with the blood etc myself, to the local shipper of my choice and had them ship it to U of Minnesota at my expense, and yes, Fed Ex and DHL were both about $45. ( your vet isn't really marking it up there...)
Now, I was at the vet for another reason today, ultrasound to confirm pregnancy on my bitch, so she didn't charge an extra office visit etc, just the draw fee.

I do agree with price shopping to an extent, but, in the end, I want the vet that is going to answer the phone and tell me " meet me at the clinic " when I need him/her in the middle of the night, on a weekend, in a snowstorm.......


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

UB, my feelings were hurt. 
I have worked for this vet and I have been going to his clinic for 6 years. The only time I have gone to another vet for anything else during that time was due to the fact that I had a dog with labor issues and they told me they were too busy to see me. (I was VERY upset that day.)
I realize vets here aren't cheap and also realize they aren't getting rich. I appreciate their services. I guess it boils down to what I consider fair.
I had already dropped $80 just 10 mins. before that for bordetella vaccs for 2 puppies. I thought it strange that he said he'd call with the fees in the morning, but never imagined that he would charge more for his services than the folks actually doing the test.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Wyldfire said:


> but, in the end, I want the vet that is going to answer the phone and tell me " meet me at the clinic " when I need him/her in the middle of the night, on a weekend, in a snowstorm.......


Mine said call the Emergency Vet after hours and I have done that when needed. The regular vets do need their time off.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2008)

Wiredlabz said:


> Hi Kristie!
> What city is the vet you drove 2 hours to? Curiosity I suppose, but I'm really NOT happy with the local vets here in Suwanee and I'm driving 45 minutes to a vet...just wondering if we're hitting the same one?
> Karen


I love my vet. The one I was referring to was an opthamalogist (always spell that wrong) and I think she's awesome. I just can't justify spending $600 for 45 mins of examination... I think another CERF vet would do just fine at half or less the price and then if there's an issue, I can run THAT dog up to her... I hate it, but I think the price is way out of whack...

-K


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2008)

Changinlat said:


> First, I'm very sorry for the loss of your husband.
> 
> Second, I can't justify anything this vet or any other vet charges. I don't know the O/H and labor costs associated with running a clinic in Alaska. And I certainly can't speak to that level of detail based on a total of $205 without having seen the OP's itemized statement. That's why I didn't attempt to justify the costs in my first post.
> 
> ...


I read your post in its entirety several times prior to posting so I would understand at least what was written. I didn't see many, if any, threads that were bashing the veterinary profession as a whole. I think most of us on here have a good relationship with our vet... My vet (my late husband's boss) charged nothing to do the swabs and frequently charges nothing for quick stuff. I really appreciate it. I have absolutely NOTHING to complain about with my veterinarian. 

I think it was fine to bring the post on here because it was interesting to hear how much some vets are charging. It's an interesting topic and it's something that would come up in casual conversation in the gallery at a test or trial -- that is MY yardstick for what I post on here. If I would say it in the gallery, where anyone could hear, it's relatively fair game for internet discussion.

She didn't name the clinic and, in fact, the original post was more a question than a bashing... It wasn't until more feedback that most of us had a general negative feeling about it. 

The internet and this forum is basically a giant gallery... We chat about anything we say face to face and hopefully most of us have some decorum and tact in what we discuss.

-K


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> $100 to the vet
> I used to work there. I know they save all the gel packs and boxes from the vaccines they purchase so that they can be re-used. So there was no cost there. And FedEx comes there to pick up the shipments.
> *I got charged $100 for 10 minutes of his time (at the most), a syringe and a 3ml purple top tube*.






Pepper Dawg said:


> So, in your mind what would a fair fee be if that is all he did? Just curious.:razz:


An office visit is like $45 at my vet. I wouldn't expect to pay more than that. Would you?


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## Jake Sullivan (Jan 28, 2008)

We just spent $500 on HW treatment!!Sucks


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Well, I guess I'm spoiled. I've been going the same general practice vet for 10 years. He runs shorthairs in NSTRA and really understands the needs of hard working dogs. He cuts me amazing discounts, i can call him day or night, heck i've even called him when he's on vacation hunting quail in eastern oregon and he's gotten me help. He told me a few years ago that he'd retire but my income alone forced him to stay in business  Facts are good vets are hard to find. I trust Hank because he's honest, avaiailble, and knows his limitations. If its beyond his skill level he gets me to an expert. He even pulled in a spine expert for me once and "called in a favor" so the exam was free. I have it written into my training contract that unless there is a medical reason to use the clients vet, I use mine. He gives me great service, great medical attention, and great prices and I send him enough business that he was able to buy a 4 dog trailer that hauls two quads, took his wife to Maui for 4 days, and put a new roof on his office. Yet despite all that, the thing I appreciate most about Hank is he's been there for GT and I as we've put down 8 dogs over the years, cried with us, hugged us. Hank gave me space as i sat on the office floor holding Ice after we finally relieved him of a lifetimes worth of pain. Hell, I'll pay anything for a vet like Hank....


/Paul


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm not criticizing the Vets. I would expect to pay more for a emergency situation or x-rays due to the equipment and expertise involved. The U of M has a chemist test the sample, map out the DNA, analize it, and return results for $65. I expect a office visit fee ($39 around here). Thats a long way from the numbers I was Quoted. Pure and simple in my book, taking advantage of the situation. American way, yes, I'll go elsewhere/shop around, also the American way. I won't get into college loans, car payments, or home loans we all have that, not the point. Its a blood draw, not surgery.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

Just got back from sampling my Cosmo pup and my Quick pup.I was charged 68.00 for both.Please note that if you go on a Friday....ask your Vet to wait till Monday to ship it out next day delivery.VDL is not open on the weekend anyway.I called them to verify this.I will call my Vet Monday AM to remind them to get it out.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Kristie Wilder said:


> That's like my paying almost $600-ish to CERF 8 or 10 dogs or puppies. It was all done in 45 minutes. I about threw up when they told me the price, which had GREATLY escalated since the last time I was there. I had expected to pay 1/2 that amount. It's a two hour drive and I go there because I really trust the vet, but not sure I'll be returning... I'll call next time and talk with her about it if she's willing to listen. But I think $600 for 45 minutes time and an envelope and postage to CERF is a little much. There are really great attorneys that don't make that... And probably plenty of MDs...
> 
> -K


Kristie, 
The last litter I CERFd 2 yrs ago were $26 each (7 in that litter). My ACVO (spelling is easier!) has a sliding scale, depending on the number of dogs you bring in at once. It was $29 ea for 3 pups recently. She still only is charging $20-22 for our annual CERF clinic (65 dog limit, on a Sunday, no less w/ ~160 miles of travel roundtrip included), of course, we all act as her techies too. We collect the $, fill out forms, dilate eyes, and keep the patient flow going.

I think I'd have asked point blank... are you sure they charged the correct amount??? ;-) With my litters, I almost always bring a friend to help hold and with one of the techs, we put 3-4 pups up on the table at a time and she just goes down the line. 

It's something for all to think about, but if you have a kennel club or similar in your area who offers a CERF clinic, you may want to inquire about offering a blood draw/chip verification service for the various tests. I believe my vet's draw fee is ~$15 and a tech does that. When 3 of us (my vet included) decided to do PRA on our dogs, my vet drew the blood at her expense, and the other friend and I handled all the labels, packaging and shipping. Worked out well for all. Anne


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2008)

windycanyon said:


> (snip)I think I'd have asked point blank... are you sure they charged the correct amount??? ;-) (snip) Anne


yes, because I was absolutely shocked when she told me the total. I thought maybe she charged the puppies as adults, etc. etc. It had historically been about $30-$35 per puppy and then maybe $50ish for adults. So i planned on something in the $300's... I was actually pretty upset about it, but it wasn't their fault. Next time i will ask before I go.. She has a SUPER busy practice, often working on holidays, etc. So it's not like she needs the business and maybe it's her way of getting equal amount of money compared to the surgeries and other stuff she might do. I don't know... I really trust and like her, but I don't know that I like how much she charges...

-K


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

The last three CERF exams I did were $35, $35, and $25. I hope I never see the $75/dog you paid.


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

I was very pleasantly surprised. My vet charged $132.00 for four dogs plus actual cost of shipping (tbd). I wrote a check directly for U of M VDL.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

as a longtime practicing veterinarian (who probably undercharges his clients) I find amusing the criticism of veterinarians charging for their time for premium services like DNA testing when many (like me) provide low cost to no cost services for those clients who cannot afford veterinary care for their pets

these are elective procedures not essential ones, these tests are being performed so that you can SELL your puppies for $$$$$$

the next time you call your DVM for something special remember that on some levels you devalue his/her services

I find it interesting that no one ever seems to complain about how much their doctor, lawyer, or dentist charges.......


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

EdA said:


> these are elective procedures not essential ones, these tests are being performed so that you can SELL your puppies for $$$$$$


No sir, essential. I'm doing these tests so I don't produce affected puppies. It sure ain't for the money.

If it were all about the money, do you think people would even bother.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

EdA said:


> as a longtime practicing veterinarian (who probably undercharges his clients) I find amusing the criticism of veterinarians charging for their time for premium services like DNA testing when many (like me) provide low cost to no cost services for those clients who cannot afford veterinary care for their pets
> 
> these are elective procedures not essential ones, these tests are being performed so that you can SELL your puppies for $$$$$$
> 
> ...


If anything, my vet probably gives her (responsible) breeder clientele more breaks, so I have no complaints here. She bred the very first CH/MH who unfortunately, began to seizure at a young age, so she always seems excited about the new genetic tests being developed even though she no longer breeds. We often work thru the protocol together for the first time (the french interpretation on the CNM test was a little trying at first if I remember right, as were all the instructions for the Optigen). Yes, the first time thru is a little more time consuming, but once they've done it once or twice, it is bound to become much easier and with this info, she can then encourage their use both from a preventative standpoint (to breeders) as well as using them as diagnostic tools when appropriate. 

So the door swings both ways there-- it works that way in my own consulting/testing business also. I'll be taking my vet's office a nice big box of apples or 2 as soon as they start rolling in too!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> If it were all about the money, do you think people would even bother.


so do you give your puppies away?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

windycanyon said:


> I'll be taking my vet's office a nice big box of apples or 2 as soon as they start rolling in too!


a nice touch but one that does not help with the expenses of operating a business


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

EdA said:


> so do you give your puppies away?


Not all, but on occasion I do.
Just out of curiousity Dr. Ed, what do you charge for drawing 3 ml of blood?


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

EdA said:


> I find it interesting that no one ever seems to complain about how much their doctor, lawyer, or dentist charges.......


Insurance companies hire companies to reduce their legal fees... so the client never has to complain...  There are companies that are hired to reduce medical bills and take discounts... 

We all get it Dr. Ed... 


Professional regards-


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

EdA said:


> so do you give your puppies away?


Dr Ed, 
I'm always happy if I break even on a litter, and thrilled if I replenish some of my competition budget. I would love to know how many on this forum actually MAKE money on puppies. I bet the answer is not many. 

My vet gets plenty of my $ on each breeding, esp if progesterone and AI's are involved.


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## Peggy Snyder (Jan 12, 2008)

So do you have to have a vet submit the specimen or can you do it yourself if you know how and just pay for the test and mailing fee? The syringe/tube/etc etc should only cost MAYBE if you stretched it $.50-1.00. I realize that the vet needs to make money so they can be there for the midnight calls but there are things to make money on and things that you can charge a reasonable fee for and charging 20.00 plus fee for tests etc should be sufficent--


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Peggy Snyder said:


> So do you have to have a vet submit the specimen or can you do it yourself if you know how and just pay for the test and mailing fee? The syringe/tube/etc etc should only cost MAYBE if you stretched it $.50-1.00. I realize that the vet needs to make money so they can be there for the midnight calls but there are things to make money on and things that you can charge a reasonable fee for and charging 20.00 plus fee for tests etc should be sufficent--


And you determine sufficent how? The price that *you* might pay? 
You start the business, you take the risk, you put your time and money on the line and then let someone else decide for you what is sufficent. What a great business model.
The market is the ultimate decider here, if you don't want to pay the price go somewhere else. It's called competition.


Mac


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

I read the opening post and Dr ed's posts. Bottom line this is business, it's not smart business for the consumer to be surprised by the price...you should have asked. 
If the price they charge is more than you want to pay for that particular service, take your business else where. Your vet can then make a decision how bad he wants YOUR business.
You would be VERY surprised how accomidating small business owners become when long time customers ask what is charged for a service and then just do not bring that business in the door. If they do not ask why you did not bring that business to them, then they obviously do not need your money to survive.

I have NEVER haggled with a vet, just asked what the cost is and went on my way. 
They figure it out soon enough that someone else is getting your money. 

Just a thought, cuz I got bad ankles from moving boulders, they hurt like HELL and I can't sleep !!!


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Bottom line this is business, it's not smart business for the consumer to be surprised by the price...you should have asked.


I did ask and was told, "We will call you tomorrow with the price."
I thought I was gonna pay a $40 office call, the U of Minn fee and the FedEx fee. I was wrong.


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> I did ask and was told, "We will call you tomorrow with the price."
> I thought I was gonna pay a $40 office call, the U of Minn fee and the FedEx fee. I was wrong.


So is that the number you were quoted *before* you went in? At the risk of sounding insensitive, you made an assumption based on your idea of worth. Your assumption was incorrect and you're shocked, dissapointed, upset and ticked. Welcome to the real world. Chock it up as a lesson learned, or a lesson you should have learned, and move on.


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## Susie Royer (Feb 4, 2005)

EdA said:


> so do you give your puppies away?


Sat down with a rum and Coke (you will see why LOL) the other night and complied this P&L from my recent CBR litter. I have saved it on my computer for future reference. It will come in handy when someone contacts me entertaining the thought of having a litter (wanting to use my stud) because they "don't want to make any money" but, they think it would be fun to have their kids see the miracle of birth or wanting "one" pup or a "clone" of their dog <vbg> Absolutely NO complaints on this end...seven *healthy* pups, seven *very *happy puppy owners and many lessons learned. 

Yes, Dr. Ed I am one of those hard working folks who requests "premium services" so, you and other Vet's can afford to help those who *can't afford to pay for their pets*. I also gave this litter away ;-)


May 20, 2008 Litter P&L

Income: 
(7 pups @ $900.00 each) $6300.00

Expenses:
Office call for Dam and Brucellosis test $75.00
Stud fee $900.00
Whelping box (home made) $75.00
Puppy Food Bowls $35.00
Misc whelping supplies $30.00
X-Pens (3) $225.00
Toys for pups (that had to be thrown away) $25.00
Newspapers FREE
Office call, PIT shot, dewclaws,x-ray $275.00
Wormer (Large bottle) $28.00
Vaccinations (first shots which I never gave) $38.00
E-Vet (Pup had air bubble in stomach) $385.00
Initial Office call confirmed Parvo (1 pup) Food, drugs, fluids, etc. $155.00
Holistic supplements for entire litter $149.00
E-Vet for first pup diagnosed (2 day care) $785.00
Isolation/ICU care for two pups (2 days) $675.00
Isolation/ICU for two pups (4 days) $1618.00
Isolation/ICU/Plasma Transfusion (first pup, 4 days) $965.00
Additional isolation/ICU for one pup who stopped eating again $215.00
Decided to keep the pup I thought wouldn't make it $900.00
Discount for crooked tail $100.00
Parvo care for one pup, owner who agreed to personally care for their Parvo Pup $699.00
Reimbursement to stud dog owner for Parvo pup care $425.00
Food $165.00
Prescription Diet/Lean Meat & Rice (5 pups) $125.00

Total Expenses: <$9067.00>
Note: Received $1000.00 in deposits when pups hit the ground. $8067.00 came out of my pocket book and we did not see any additional income until the pups were healthy, ten weeks old and ready to go to their new home!


Profit: <$2767.00> Loss

This does NOT not include my time, additional trip home daily from work to feed pups at $3.99 a gallon for gas and literally my blood, sweat and tears.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> Not all, but on occasion I do.
> Just out of curiousity Dr. Ed, what do you charge for drawing 3 ml of blood?


What I charge and what a veterinarian in Alaska charges are probably very different for all procedures. I live in an area of relatively low (compared to Alaska) cost of living.

I am certain that I charge less than your veterinarian does. If you were a loyal long tenured client of mine who purchased all of your veterinary products from me rather than from online pharmacies I would probably not even charge you to draw 3 ml of blood and since you are a loyal long tenured client verification of the microchip number would be easy. ;-)

If you called my office and asked what the fee would be it would be the same as preparing a CNM test (an office call), the price of which is going up soon as all of my expenses (drugs, utilities, dog and cat food, insurance, municipal and school taxes, and employee compensation) get higher. 

Today after training my buddies and I stopped at the local Valley View diner where you can get a cheeseburger (certified angus beef), a large order of fries or onion rings, and a 24 oz fountain drink for 5 bucks, bet you can't eat lunch for 5 bucks at the North Pole......


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Rick_C said:


> So he charged $95 to draw the blood and package it???
> 
> Must have a nice vacation coming up!


naw, the $95 was for

1. Overhead expense

2. 4 years of college and 4 years of veterinary school

3. the monthly payment on the $750,000 loan to start the business

I can't even fill up my truck for $95


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## M Remington (Feb 16, 2006)

It amazes me how everyone will cut your throat for a dime. Customers don't stick around long enough to develop a relationship because they're searching for someone who give them a better deal. Unfortunately, the Walmart mentality is becoming too pervasive.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

EdA said:


> as a longtime practicing veterinarian (who probably undercharges his clients) I find amusing the criticism of veterinarians charging for their time for premium services like DNA testing when many (like me) provide low cost to no cost services for those clients who cannot afford veterinary care for their pets
> 
> these are elective procedures not essential ones, these tests are being performed so that you can SELL your puppies for $$$$$$
> 
> ...



Rather than call it a premium service, I think of more as non essential services. I'm not sure how asking for this special test is devaluing my vet's services, but then I don't really understand the intricacies of running their business, I have a hard enough time keeping mine straight. The way I see it, I educated my vet on a test that is available to her that she didn't know about. I completely filled out the form and provided all the information to her and asked her to call me when she decided if this was a service she could provide. She called me back after hours. She was VERY interested and happy to hear about the test, said that it will be of use to her in the future. She suggested that I didn't need an appointment with a vet. She said bring in Raven, we'll have a vet tech draw and package the blood, I'll check the chip and sign the form. Then when we figure out the cost, we'll bill you. What I expect is:

$65 + mark-up on fee to U of MN
$45 to ship overnight
$10 to package
$25 for blood draw

Or a total of $145 plus the mark-up on the test, whatever it is. But she'll have to add paperwork to her file, receive the results, probably take time out to phone me, forward results to me for submission to OFA, and pay staff to do the accounting and handling of the files.

I would expect the mark-up to range from $25 to $50.

This is a small cost compared to everything I've spent on the girl so far. I have no idea if I'll ever breed or not. But I like to know where I stand with a dog's health when making decisions about her future. Doing all the clearances seems like good business to me when you're playing such a high stakes game. Heck, I had hip and elbow x-rays on a male I had neutered. But I know his hips are excellent and his elbows are normal, and the cost of knowing was worth it to me...


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## Mike Noel (Sep 26, 2003)

M Remington said:


> It amazes me how everyone will cut your throat for a dime. Customers don't stick around long enough to develop a relationship because they're searching for someone who give them a better deal. Unfortunately, the Walmart mentality is becoming too pervasive.


What people dont realize is that by saving a few buck they usually end up with an inferior product or service that ends up costing a multiple of what they saved when they have to have it repaired or replaced.

I like to do business with folks that provide me with a level of service that I would pay "whatever they asked". My dogs all go to Dr. Ed and he could triple his fees and my wife and I would still go there. We are web savvy and purchase a lot of things on line but we get our heartworm and flea and tick from Dr. Ed becasue the 20 or 50 bucks we would save comes back to us when we have called him on his cell on a sunday when he was out of town on pleasure. 

I think you need to look at your relationship with your vet as a whole.....if you feel ripped off by that one transaction even after examining your total relationship then you should find another vet.

Quality is not expensive, it is priceless.


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

Mike, you said it all "Quality is not expensive, it is priceless". 

We are so fortunate in having one of the finest Vets in the USA. His knowledge. compasion and friendship is worth what ever he charges. I never question my bill cause I know he is honest and fair and my dogs and cats are getting excellent care. My biggest concern is that he will retire before we do.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

One of my good friends is a vet in North Carolina. He owns his own practice, with grooming and boarding. He lives on an estate in the wealthiest part of town. Owns Arabian horses, a big boat and a top of the line truck to pull it; He and his wife drive new and expensive cars, and attend all the social parties covered in the newspaper. Both his kids got new cars for their 16th birthday, and attended college on tuition and expenses paid full out of my friend's pocket. His favorite vacations are African safaris.

He didn't start out that way. While he had college loans to pay back, he lived a middle class life. Fortunately for him, those loan payments don't last forever. He currently employs three vets, other than himself, at his practice. All making loan payments, all living middle-class lives.

Dr. Ed, we have seen people here saying that they have seen varying prices for this service: $10 - $50 - $100. Not one complained about the $10 or the $50. There were only complaints about the $100. No one is begrudging a vet earning his due! They are complaining about being overcharged.


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

I feel also that if you have a vet you trust and who truly cares for your dogs, the best way to show respect for the care they provide is not to try and nickle and dime their service. I feel as though I'm paying for (w/ the exception that I love my dog more than any inanimate object) a service that, like plumbing or some other trade-this may not be the bast analogy-that I want an expert in the field. With my vet-it's about establishing a relationship, so that when I need to advocate for my dog I am heard and listened to. If I make it all about $$$-how am I to expect my vet to also look at it any more than a business relationship.

I've never questioned charges and there have been times when on brief visits I'm not charged. I don't expect that, but I apreciate it. What I appreciate more is knowing that if at 4:00 a.m. I need help -I have someone who take my concerns seriously. THAT is priceless.

The only guilt producing moment for me was telling my vet that I've scheduled hip/elbow/eye/thyroid clearances next week w/ another vet because it's imperative that I feel I'm getting the "best". Fortunately-it won't jeopardize our relationship.

I guess the way to look at it from my perspective is no different than whether you question your personal doctor for every charge he/she makes.You want the best care, not bargain prices that could put your health at risk.

M


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

EdA said:


> If you were a loyal long tenured client of mine who purchased all of your veterinary products from me rather than from online pharmacies I would probably not even charge you to draw 3 ml of blood and since you are a loyal long tenured client verification of the microchip number would be easy. ;-)


Let's see 6 dogs, all services from this same vet. (Vaccs, teeth cleaning, surgeries, AIs you name it..he's gotten every nickel for 6 years...) All drugs bought from this vet. Hell, even Science Diet j/d bought from this vet for over 3 years now. (That $70/bag is hard to take, but I think that food helps my ol' girl.)
I called his office for an appt. and expected charges similar to what I have always been charged.


EdA said:


> Today after training my buddies and I stopped at the local Valley View diner where you can get a cheeseburger (certified angus beef), a large order of fries or onion rings, and a 24 oz fountain drink for 5 bucks, bet you can't eat lunch for 5 bucks at the North Pole......


A similar meal would probably cost $8 or $9 and you'd have to look hard to find the angus.;-)


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Cleo Watson said:


> My biggest concern is that he will retire before we do.


a sentiment reported to be my long term clients on a regular basis

As a young veterinarian I had clients who now have children who are clients who have children of their own. Over time I have developed many client relationships that include (in their visits) discussions about their pets, their children, and their grand children. Many of them have my cellphone number, none have yet to abuse the privilege and respect the fact that I have a life away from my profession. One of the joys of what I do that keeps me from contemplating retirement is the appreciation of my clients for my professional knowledge and efforts for their pets. 

These are symbiotic relationships generated over a career of caring and trust between veterinarian and client when both parties benefit, the rewards for both of us are undefinable.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> Let's see 6 dogs, all services from this same vet. (Vaccs, teeth cleaning, surgeries, AIs you name it..he's gotten every nickel for 6 years...) All drugs bought from this vet. Hell, even Science Diet j/d bought from this vet for over 3 years now. (That $70/bag is hard to take, but I think that food helps my ol' girl.)
> I called his office for an appt. and expected charges similar to what I have always been charged.
> 
> A similar meal would probably cost $8 or $9 and you'd have to look hard to find the angus.;-)


sounds like you are a PREMIUM CLIENT, maybe you should contemplate a move to Texas.....I'm still taking new clients....


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

EdA said:


> sounds like you are a PREMIUM CLIENT, maybe you should contemplate a move to Texas.....I'm still taking new clients....


Dr. Ed, when Jim and I start snowbirding in about 5 years, I might be down your way.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> when Jim and I start snowbirding in about 5 years


Sheri, with vet bills like the one for the eic test; it'll be six years. :razz:


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Howard N said:


> Sheri, with vet bills like the one for the eic test; it'll be six years. :razz:


Bwahahaha!!! You might be right about that Howard!!!


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Just had our crew CERF'd at clinic put on by local (within an hrs drive) dog club- 1st dog =$28, 8 more at $25 each = $228
Same weekend had female OFA'd on hips and elbows, 1st x-ray $60, add'l x-ray $40, $17.50 office call, $20 anesthesia = $137.50
Sent Radiographes via email, charged $35.00 to OFA
While at vets office for OFA, bought 6 pkgs of Heartguard Plus 6 x $32 = $192.00
Sent in CERF on 9 dogs- one was a re-cerf, 1 x $8, 8 x $12 = $104.00
Sent in AKC and UKC paperwork on new pup, $32 AKC, $28 UKC = $60.00
Sent in DNA swabs on 3 dogs also, 3 x $40 = $120.00
This was done in three days. I also had to pick up and drop off two of the dogs at two different trainers, so gas money was involved. Expensive weekend! Total = $886.50
Now I get to save up for CNM and EIC testing on 9 dogs too!! Unfortunately, it will have to wait a couple of months, I have to save up for the next round. No wonder I get a Christmas card from the vet every year. I asked once just how much money it took in order for a client to qualify for a Christmas card, I was told that I did not want to know.


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## LSpann (Oct 1, 2007)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> Mark,
> The office visit was yesterday. The vet told me, "I'll call tomorrow with the amount." I got a call first thing this morning letting me know I owe $205.
> In the span of 20 minutes, I paid for 2 puppies to be vaccinated. (Office call+ vaccine charge for each.) Then paid for Noodle's fees. I would think he could pay for his overhead easily with the other office calls scheduled for the rest of the hour.
> I called to talk to him about the fees and was told by the office staff that that is the normal mark up.



All of these out rageous vet bills in Alaska can very easily be avoided by going here:

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/

This looks like the closest location to Alaska. Then after graduation maybe you'll have a different opinion as to what constitutes a fair and reasonable charge.


LSpann


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## goldust (May 12, 2005)

I'm still choking on $80.00 for 2 bordatella vaccines for your 2 puppies. Geez, you can do that yourself.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

goldust said:


> I'm still choking on $80.00 for 2 bordatella vaccines for your 2 puppies. Geez, you can do that yourself.


Yep, for about $5... but then wouldn't that make her a bad client in some folks' eyes here?


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## Mark Sehon (Feb 10, 2003)

$20.00 for EIC, and CMN. I paid shipping.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

goldust said:


> I'm still choking on $80.00 for 2 bordatella vaccines for your 2 puppies. Geez, you can do that yourself.


As I said before, I have been a good client. The dogs/puppies go there for lots of things I could do myself....
Heck, I could draw the blood too, if it wasn't necessary to have him sign the paperwork.
It will all work out in the end.


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## Jay Dufour (Jan 19, 2003)

hey Mark....Dr. Welch is DA MAN ! Thanks for getting them to the P.O.....Best of luck on results.


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> As I said before, I have been a good client. The dogs/puppies go there for lots of things I could do myself....
> Heck, I could draw the blood too, if it wasn't necessary to have him sign the paperwork.
> It will all work out in the end.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought you didn't have to have the vet draw, nor sign anything??? This is only done IF you wanted the designation of PIV(along with the dog having a tattoo or microchip).

Am I wrong, and there will not be NOPI, PI, and PIV reporting for the OFFA site? Along with Clear, Carrier and Affected status?

Tim


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## Ken Newcomb (Apr 18, 2003)

Look at it this way.....

$10 for collecting the blood
$90 for being qualified to do it and sign the paperwork

My vet comes down anytime I need him and always treats me fair. I would never complain about what he charges.

I mean come on $600+ a month to train my dog heck the dog food to feed him costs less then $50.


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## Charles Dwyer (Feb 10, 2006)

Took two dogs in yeterday. I had sent one of our vets all the info. several days prior as none of the vets in this practice were aware of EIC. One of the vets went as far as calling U of M to ask questions and even set up an account so that the clinic could be billed.

We wrote one check to the vet which was nice, $85 for each dog. $65 for the test, $20 per dog to have blood drawn and 3 day shipping. I asked that they send the samples overnight and bill me the difference. It is extremely hot here and wanted the samples to get there as quickly as possible. We use three different vets for different things. This paticular clinic is closest to us and is where we have the majority of our vacinations done and buy HW preventative. They know we go to the other clinics for the more tech. stuff but they do take very good care of us and are very reasonable.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

If the samples are warm they wont test them My vet also called and spoke to them they advised we wait until it gets cooler. I dont want to be out vet costs and shipping costs for nothing.


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## Charles Dwyer (Feb 10, 2006)

My samples were sent with frozen gel packs, but today its going to be 100. Wanted them to get there asap just to be safe!


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## wolf_dancer34 (May 6, 2007)

I just went to a NEW Vet Monday since I was getting no help from my original Vet. I also was surprised by the cost of his services.
Office call $21.00
Exam 21.00
Skin Scraping 22.00
Lab. Fee 86.25
------
$150.25

And am still holding my breathe that he can help me fix my dogs coat....to me expensive and frustrating. But worth every penny if it is a good outcome. I know my tests are not the same as other posts on here but to me still expensive.


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## Ken Archer (Aug 11, 2003)

Rick_C said:


> So he charged $95 to draw the blood and package it???


My vet got blood from 5 of my dogs today and shipped it for less than that. I hope he at least gave you a kiss.


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## Jason Glavich (Apr 10, 2008)

LSpann said:


> All of these out rageous vet bills in Alaska can very easily be avoided by going here:
> 
> http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/
> 
> ...


I agree the school is difficult and expensive. Now I pay for my vet bills without complaint till the other day. I have never had a problem paying E-vet bills for broken toes or paying for shots. But the other day they tell me I should bring both dogs in on the same appointment to save time for me and them I think ok thats a good idea till I get the bill. My puppy got 3 shots and a checkup a very normal thing. My older dog was to get a booster, when I get there it turns out she does not need it so it becomes a checkup, a thermometer and a poke on the old belly and that was it. 

No biggie till I get the bill. Office visit for both dogs. I agree with that charge for both dogs.

Extra dog fee. I asked and was told it was a fee for booking 2 dogs on the same appointment which they told me to do. Now a small fee wouldn't have bothered me but paying 40 dollars for the initial visit then having a 25 dollar fee on top of that for the extra dog fee was outlandish.

LSpann I understand your reasoning for posting about the schooling required which no one here has argued about what we are posting about is the charges they sometimes choose to charge. Just another way to look at it.


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## Northern Lights Kennels (May 9, 2006)

So let's see ..... $630.00 an hour.... must have been that high priced gas again.....rasin the cost of everything....even Vet fees ..... don'n let the lawyers see that.... they will up their fees too!


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## Sally Berry (Nov 11, 2007)

Sherri,

Check your private messages.

Sally Berry
Fairbanks, AK.


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Reasonable fees by my vet today for EIC tests for three dogs.

One Office Visit $44.00 (3) Phlebotomy $9.90 per dog

No charge for box, label, and ice packs

Took samples myself to post office and shipped overnight mail.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Mine charged me $19 total for the last batch of 3 I did, I provided the shipping container and the mailing myself. Wierd how it varies.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I got charged $9 per dog to draw-I mailed it in my own container (from vaccines) with gel packs through USPS express and it was there the next morning. I even brought the labeled tubes to save time and the chip reader.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Mine charged me $10 per dog and gave me a gell pack from when he'd gotten things in. I shipped them off myself.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Mine was $29 total for two dogs and that included the heartworm/flea tick preventative for the pup. Can't ask for better, and not only that but my vet was very interested in learning more about EIC and CNM as he has not heard much about it being a "pet only" vet. I like this guy.


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

I had 3 dogs EIC tested at Madison RC trial last month. Jeff Schuett/Pewaukee Vet Clinic came to me at the Am stake because I had mentioned to another handler I wanted to have my dogs tested. 3 dogs @ $300 total for all 3 dogs ($100 ea) - and he did everything right there, maybe 5 mins a dog. He had the scanner, the tubes, the mailers. All I had to do was fill out the paperwork & bring the dogs to his truck.

Then at the Cen WI trial I had a dog tear a toenail. Jeff was there running his dog. In the shade on the side of the road Jeff put my dog under anesthetic, cut the nail off, spent some time & supplies cleaning the surgical area, bandaged the dog & gave me 10 days worth of meds. When I asked how to pay him, he said he'd bill me - about $200 for the anesthetic, surgery, bandage, meds & his time. Better yet my dog was training again in a week.

So when I'm in WI each summer, Jeff Schuett is the Man!


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> I had 3 dogs EIC tested at Madison RC trial last month. Jeff Schuett/Pewaukee Vet Clinic came to me at the Am stake because I had mentioned to another handler I wanted to have my dogs tested. 3 dogs @ $300 total for all 3 dogs ($100 ea) - and he did everything right there, maybe 5 mins a dog. He had the scanner, the tubes, the mailers. All I had to do was fill out the paperwork & bring the dogs to his truck.
> 
> Then at the Cen WI trial I had a dog tear a toenail. Jeff was there running his dog. In the shade on the side of the road Jeff put my dog under anesthetic, cut the nail off, spent some time & supplies cleaning the surgical area, bandaged the dog & gave me 10 days worth of meds. When I asked how to pay him, he said he'd bill me - about $200 for the anesthetic, surgery, bandage, meds & his time. Better yet my dog was training again in a week.
> 
> So when I'm in WI each summer, Jeff Schuett is the Man!


He and Lydia are GEMS!!! No one other then Jeff would I call when I'm back to my homeland for vet work. And Lydia is wonderful....

I hope to see them both soon.

Angie


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## LabLady101 (Mar 17, 2006)

Pretty reasonable here. $65 for test, $50 for overnight shipping (it was a Friday), and $14.50 for the blood draw for a total of $129.50 (which probably would have been lower if it hadn't been a weekend). We were in the office already for OFAs, so I'm looping the office visit fee in with that.


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## RedstarKennels (Dec 22, 2007)

Just got back from my Vet...had my dogs blood pulled and packed and shipped off to Minn...
My vet charged $20.00 for the whole crew...shipping and all....I love my vet...
Now hoping the results come back "Clear"...


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

I had one tested last week. The vet charged $38 for the office call, gave me a frozen gel pack and I shipped out the blood myself. 

Andy


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## Cresthill (Apr 19, 2005)

I definitely think you got ripped a new one.

I finally had a chance to sit down and calculate my total expenses for shipping out samples for EIC. My total came out to $79.75 per dog. Now keep in mind that I sent in 20 samples at once so the shipping and house call is divided by 20. 

My vet came out to the kennel to draw blood and I shipped the samples myself. I had all the paperwork filled out and tubes labeled (the vet allowed me to pick the tubes up before hand) All he had to do was verify the microchip, sign the paper, pull the blood and put it in the tube.

$65 - Cost of test
$9 - per dog to pull blood
$50 - House Call
$65 - Shipping

My total bill for EIC testing came to $1595. I also had him pull blood for PRA and RD/OSD tests and they were also pulled for $9 per dog. 

My vet is very good to me, but I also spend between 12K - 16K a year at his practice. He can afford to cut me a break every now and then 

Wendy Bonello
Cresthill Kennels
________
Vapir oxygen


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