# Lean Mac pups prices?



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Hi all,

I'm thinking of breeding my very dark ylw, NMH MH, all clear female to Lean Mac.
Fanny got her MH title @ 14 months old, no question very talented dog.
Since not many lean Mac pups advertise, price point is......?

NMH Dandesg Miss Laurel Fiji pedigree http://ajtop.com/fanny-pedigrees/

My idea goes like that
Clear ylw female ++++
Clear black female +++
Carrier ylw male ++
Carrier black male +

Thanks for sharing your idea!


----------



## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

You can get $5000 each with no regard to color or gender. Maybe more.


----------



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

curious what the semen fee is?


----------



## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Bridget Bodine said:


> curious what the semen fee is?


I'm guessing $15-$20K minimum.


----------



## Ethompson63 (Sep 13, 2013)

Last couple litters I've seen were asking around $6000 to start but I did notice a couple of carrier males were dropped to $3500 don't know what they ended up selling for. I heard but in no way confirmed the stud fee was like a flat price plus a per pup price so like $5000 then $2000 per pup but again this is not from first hand source.


----------



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Mike Perry said:


> You can get $5000 each with no regard to color or gender. Maybe more.


A friend of mine just bred his FC-AFC bitch to LM and your figure is a good estimate.......for the deposit!!


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

IMHO i feel that Lean Mac semen owner can answer pretty much the answer since he know the price of all litter upon pedigree of the dam!
Thanks guys!


----------



## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Then why did you ask? Not arguing, just curious.


----------



## Olaf (Feb 13, 2016)

Alain said:


> IMHO i feel that Lean Mac semen owner can answer pretty much the answer since he know the price of all litter upon pedigree of the dam!
> Thanks guys!


That's great. I would move this to the classified section then or delete since you have an idea on the price from the stud owner. Congrats on the litter.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

2tall, Olaf.
Of course Lean Mac owner will have a good idea, but thought having the other side of it would be helpful for me! 
Never got a response of Lean Mac owner yet.
Lot of $$ are involve so .......!


----------



## Olaf (Feb 13, 2016)

Alain said:


> 2tall, Olaf.
> Of course Lean Mac owner will have a good idea, but thought having the other side of it would be helpful for me!
> Never got a response of Lean Mac owner yet.
> Lot of $$ are involve so .......!


http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?120465-Lean-Mac-puppy

That said, with that amount of the money on the table, you're still providing an Elbow guarantee I would hope, despite Lean Mac's lack of elbow scores right?


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Olaf,
Thank for the link and info!


----------



## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

I would be very cautious about jumping off this dock, the water in Canada can be very cold...no pun intended...you could be upside down very quickly w a very small market....Let's do the math....These numbers are just for illustration...Stud fee...$5K
Shipping fee on semen tank...$1K+
Vet fee for SI....$1K++
Fee on live born pups (est 5 pups) @ $3K ea....$15K
Whelping service (whether you do it or you hire someone it is still a cost...5 x $ 400= $2K
First shots, dew claws removed and puppy food....easy $1K
Marketing...........anyone's guess
Now you have 5 pups and an investment of $25K or $5K per pup...
Let's say you only want the pick of the litter and no mark up on your realized costs...$25K '/. 4 = $6,250.00...OH AND THESE ARE AMERICAN $. at today's rate add another 33%
All that being said, you might have some buyers but probably USA folks and how are you going to train and campaign a dog up in God's Country, where I would imagine your trials are some distance from each other.
Good Luck


----------



## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Ethompson63 said:


> Some of those numbers are a little exaggerated. $1,000 for shots, dew claws, and puppy food? You're doing something wrong. Let's say big litter of 10 puppies and 1 bag of food a week for 8 weeks would give you PLENTY of food for pups and mom. Dewclaws say vet charge was high $20 a pup and shots high at $40 a pup.
> 8x40=320
> 10x20=200
> 10x40=400
> ...


HA>>HA>>>HA
You obviously didn't get the scenario, nor have you ever raised Hi Level dogs....This isn't done in a backyard by your corner Vet


----------



## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

Is a Lean Mac pup actually worth the 6500 bucks? 
What percent of LM pups are FC or AFC. Be interesting to see the comparison to some other popular sires. (Ford, Gizmo, etc).


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Chipper31 said:


> Is a Lean Mac pup actually worth the 6500 bucks?
> What percent of LM pups are FC or AFC. Be interesting to see the comparison to some other popular sires. (Ford, Gizmo, etc).


LM has produced more FC and/or AFC than any other dog. Who knows the current number?


----------



## Jared McComis (Aug 12, 2013)

It would be interesting to see the percentages.


----------



## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Who wouldn't want to take the chance if they could... on the one hand... 
on the other hand .... there are so many dogs with heavily stacked LM pedigrees.


----------



## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

Percentage will tell the true talet. ...he might have the most FC and AFC ever but if only 5% become champions and some other sire produces at a 10% rate.......I look forward to someone digging deeper.


----------



## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

I did the percentages a while back based on how many dogs Lean Mac had in the OFA database compared to other nice producers. That's an apples to apples comparison when trying to determine roughly how much a dog was bred. Long story short, it's disingenuous to suggest that he produced well only because he was bred a ton. Here's a quick comparison:

Lean Mac has 883 offspring in the OFA database with hip scores and at least 150 titled offspring. That's roughly 16.9%. Cosmo has 440 offspring in database and let's generously say he has 50 titled offspring. That's roughly 11.3%. That's not a knock on Cosmo, but Lean Mac was a fantastic dog and a consistent producer of big-time field trial dogs.


----------



## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Charles C. said:


> I did the percentages a while back based on how many dogs Lean Mac had in the OFA database compared to other nice producers. That's an apples to apples comparison when trying to determine roughly how much a dog was bred. Long story short, it's disingenuous to suggest that he produced well only because he was bred a ton. Here's a quick comparison:
> 
> Lean Mac has 883 offspring in the OFA database with hip scores and at least 150 titled offspring. That's roughly 16.9%. Cosmo has 440 offspring in database and let's generously say he has 50 titled offspring. That's roughly 11.3%. That's not a knock on Cosmo, but Lean Mac was a fantastic dog and a consistent producer of big-time field trial dogs.


Just curious, what's the numbers on Grady?


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Terry,
i know what it is, i have breed by frozen semen 4x to Grady, 1 to Pirate, 4x to Tubb, The Boss, Tiger!


----------



## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

By 2 Cosmo pups and you have a 23% chance and prob pay less for the two pups then 1 LM pup...


----------



## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

bamajeff said:


> Just curious, what's the numbers on Grady?


I don't know how many titled dogs Grady has produced, but he has 529 offspring in the OFA database with hip scores.


----------



## Rnd (Jan 21, 2012)

Alain, call him he'll let you know the program. Everybody else only has conjecture . 

FYI,,, I've spoken to him and he is reasonable, 

Randy


----------



## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Chipper31 said:


> Is a Lean Mac pup actually worth the 6500 bucks?
> What percent of LM pups are FC or AFC. Be interesting to see the comparison to some other popular sires. (Ford, Gizmo, etc).


Considering there aren't many more straws left, and if he were to be bred to an FC or AFC female, IMO the line would form to the left and there would be people willing to be on the alternate list...

Is it worth it, all depends on your perspective...If you are the breeder, Yes...if you are the buyer, your sphincter may pucker, and your hand may shake when writing the check, but when you look behind and see a line of people waiting to take your place...


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

AKC would be the only one that would know how many total pups were registered, or better yet individual litter registrations issued. and they don't give that number. Some other animal registries do issue that and stats based on the total number. Hip scores is a smart way of doing it.


----------



## saltgrass (Sep 22, 2008)

Have a trainer here in south AL that's going to breed a very nice female to LM soon. The last couple litters has sold for min of $5000. and yes they are worth it if your in the market. Lots of people want to stay away from LM for some reason. But I loved both of my LM granddaughters. And as he said over 3/4 of his kennel has LM in ther Ped. 

Good luck


----------



## NateB (Sep 25, 2003)

Charles C. said:


> I did the percentages a while back based on how many dogs Lean Mac had in the OFA database compared to other nice producers. That's an apples to apples comparison when trying to determine roughly how much a dog was bred. Long story short, it's disingenuous to suggest that he produced well only because he was bred a ton. Here's a quick comparison:
> 
> Lean Mac has 883 offspring in the OFA database with hip scores and at least 150 titled offspring. That's roughly 16.9%. Cosmo has 440 offspring in database and let's generously say he has 50 titled offspring. That's roughly 11.3%. That's not a knock on Cosmo, but Lean Mac was a fantastic dog and a consistent producer of big-time field trial dogs.


Very cool info. By titled you mean FC/AFC only, correct? Since huntinglabpedigree.com lists LM with 330+, titled offspring. 
According to retriever results Cosmo has 52 field trial titled offspring, good guess!!
When I am on huntinglabpedigree.com and and look at a stud's offspring all titles are counted, personally I do not count lower hunt test titles. I do wish they could put in the summary instead of total titled dogs, break it down to field trial titles, Master level titles, and other.


----------



## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Terry Marshall said:


> HA>>HA>>>HA
> You obviously didn't get the scenario, nor have you ever raised Hi Level dogs....This isn't done in a backyard by your corner Vet


I had no idea that a vet would charge more for dewclaws and vaccines (or that a specialist kind of vet would be required because of the sire) and the feed store would quadruple the price of dog food just because it's a Lean Mac puppy.  

At my vet (and he's a good one) my total cost per puppy for dewclaws, and then first shots and health exam at 6 weeks is $42 per puppy. I can feed a litter of eight and their dam from conception thorough eight weeks on top quality dog food for $250.


----------



## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Terry Marshall said:


> HA>>HA>>>HA
> You obviously didn't get the scenario, nor have you ever raised Hi Level dogs....This isn't done in a backyard by your corner Vet


Alain does just fine including selling and titling his dogs, and I would suspect not much marketing with having friends in higher places.

<First shots, dew claws removed and puppy food....easy $1K> 

For me <$135 including Mom's food for 5 pups. Including microchips and vet checks <$300. Now that's if everything goes well but you are being taken on a ride, and that isn't necessary. The semen, implantation. and stud fee are a high cost as the semen was bought by investors who don't know much about dogs and breeding.


----------



## The Snows (Jul 19, 2004)

Terry Marshall said:


> I would be very cautious about jumping off this dock, the water in Canada can be very cold...no pun intended...you could be upside down very quickly w a very small market....Let's do the math....These numbers are just for illustration...Stud fee...$5K
> Shipping fee on semen tank...$1K+
> Vet fee for SI....$1K++
> Fee on live born pups (est 5 pups) @ $3K ea....$15K
> ...


So nice to see someone in Texas giving those of us way up here in Canada a "how to" on marketing puppies .... particularly with your prices on vet services, dewclaws, first shots and food ..... think you have more to worry about doing this type of breeding down there than we do up here!

I particularly like the comment "how are you going to train and campaign a dog up in God's Country, where I would imagine your trials are some distance from each other". Geez!


----------



## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

Charles made his point but I have to ask is there something else in the equation. 

High roller trainers or owner who use high roller trainers? Meaning that Leanie has a great rep so people willing to invest go all the way to make sure of good results. 

I too am looking at the line but as a budgeted amateur can't explain to the boss lady the value of the investment given the total picture in our family.


----------



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

We have talk quite a lot some years back talking about ''Ralph'' and just hang up with LM owner.
Very easy going from day one!


----------



## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

Terry Marshall said:


> I would be very cautious about jumping off this dock, the water in Canada can be very cold...no pun intended...you could be upside down very quickly w a very small market....Let's do the math....These numbers are just for illustration...Stud fee...$5K
> Shipping fee on semen tank...$1K+
> Vet fee for SI....$1K++
> Fee on live born pups (est 5 pups) @ $3K ea....$15K
> ...


So the "live puppy fee", goes to the stud dog owner is addition to the stud fee?


----------



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

mngundog said:


> So the "live puppy fee", goes to the stud dog owner is addition to the stud fee?


Yes in this case


----------



## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Len Ferrucci was a big fan of LM. The disagreements over stud fee B/T he & Sherwin were 
quite interesting. Sherwin wanted a pup, Ferrucci wanted to pay the standard fee which at 
the time was around $1K. The breeding was consummated with an unknown agreement. 
None of the pups reached the lofty expectations of the breeders or the purchasers!


----------



## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

Marvin S said:


> Len Ferrucci was a big fan of LM. The disagreements over stud fee B/T he & Sherwin were
> quite interesting. Sherwin wanted a pup, Ferrucci wanted to pay the standard fee which at
> the time was around $1K. The breeding was consummated with an unknown agreement.
> None of the pups reached the lofty expectations of the breeders or the purchasers!


Hey Marv. I surely would be disappointed in having a pup out of Maxx bred to Chica: Prize, Chavez, Pricey, etc. Such a lousy breeding!


----------



## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Sharon Potter said:


> I had no idea that a vet would charge more for dewclaws and vaccines (or that a specialist kind of vet would be required because of the sire) and the feed store would quadruple the price of dog food just because it's a Lean Mac puppy.
> 
> At my vet (and he's a good one) my total cost per puppy for dewclaws, and then first shots and health exam at 6 weeks is $42 per puppy. I can feed a litter of eight and their dam from conception thorough eight weeks on top quality dog food for $250.


You missed the point as well...those are estimated high and are not the direction of my comment...(one thing I do as you might not as I charge myself travel time and expenses...too many small businesses go broke being nice)


----------



## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Alain said:


> Terry,
> i know what it is, i have breed by frozen semen 4x to Grady, 1 to Pirate, 4x to Tubb, The Boss, Tiger!


OK Alain
Explain to our Canadian audience what a pup from your bitch by LM that might cost you $7000 american $ would cost them...How many takers do you think you might have?


----------



## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

labsforme said:


> Hey Marv. I surely would be disappointed in having a pup out of Maxx bred to Chica: Prize, Chavez, Pricey, etc. Such a lousy breeding!


I think Maxx must have peed on Marvin's leg at a field trial or something. Marvin has been grinding that axe for as long as I can remember. 3/4 of what Marvin says about Maxx is nonsense, but you have to admire his consistency. Facts should never get in the way of a good story.


----------



## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Charles C. said:


> I think Maxx must have peed on Marvin's leg at a field trial or something. Marvin has been grinding that axe for as long as I can remember. 3/4 of what Marvin says about Maxx is nonsense, but you have to admire his consistency. Facts should never get in the way of a good story.


& you've been pontificating about how great he was without ever having saw him run, 
which I did many times. Tell me whose believable, mr peltless?


----------



## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Marvin S said:


> & you've been pontificating about how great he was without ever having saw him run,
> which I did many times. Tell me whose believable, mr peltless?


Anyone that has a copy of the Lardy marking videos has seen Lean Mac run a set of water marks. Here's a video of Maxx running a land/water blind at the 2000 Nat'l when he was 10 years old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPgpDcoeNk8 Where's this water pig you speak of? I'm not sure what your definition of peltless is, but I won a derby this weekend with a dog with Maxx on both sides of his pedigree while you stayed at home and played keyboard warrior.


----------



## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Hey Sherwin had to maintain a "certain standard of life" or as he told me standing beside him at Sauk Rapids. MN FT , that his Savings and Loan Bank paid him to stay away from his desk. Now when I discovered in an obscure Canadian publication that he paid the highest bid of $750,000 to shoot a certain Alberta Canadian ram I was duly impressed with his financial liquidity. I had FT friends in Alberta who confirmed. Unfortunately Sherwin missed. Bid again another year, same amount and got his trophy. Jealousy comes in many forms. I just knew when offered a considerable amount for my 1 1/2 year old of $40,000 in 1990 I did not sell because I knew what I had. Knowledge is power. 

The issue we keep running into is that we have a limited registry backed up now by microchips, DNA and etc.. and ringers are harder to hide. Do you breed for today and the hell with the future or plan ahead and NOT keep pushing the flavor of the year. Your life, your choice, your money. Being a "godlike" breeder carries responsibilities. IMO !


----------



## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Marvin S said:


> & you've been pontificating about how great he was without ever having saw him run,
> which I did many times. Tell me whose believable, mr peltless?


Marvin, you and I are mostly aligned when it comes to college football, but I have to stick up for Max here. I saw him run many times, got to judge him 2-3 times, and I was duly impressed. I also trained with two Lean Mac offspring their whole career, Don Berard's Ritz and Jim Mitchell's Ranger, both very nice FC-AFCs. I've earned a few pelts I guess, at least enough to recognize a good dog when I see one.


----------



## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Alain's record as a breeder of high quality retrievers speaks for itself. It is very respectable. Whatever decision he makes, he is accountable to only himself.


----------



## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

labsforme said:


> Hey Marv. I surely would be disappointed in having a pup out of Maxx bred to Chica: Prize, Chavez, Pricey, etc. Such a lousy breeding!


FYI, the breeding being discussed was a repeat of that breeding. Possibly you'd like to name some of them?
Strained through the sheets regards!


----------



## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Charles C. said:


> I'm not sure what your definition of peltless is, but I won a derby this weekend with a dog with Maxx on both sides of his pedigree while you stayed at home and played keyboard warrior.


Enjoy your trip, the derby is only the start.


----------



## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

John Robinson said:


> Marvin, you and I are mostly aligned when it comes to college football, but I have to stick up for Max here. I saw him run many times, got to judge him 2-3 times, and I was duly impressed. I also trained with two Lean Mac offspring their whole career, Don Berard's Ritz and Jim Mitchell's Ranger, both very nice FC-AFCs. I've earned a few pelts I guess, at least enough to recognize a good dog when I see one.


The best running dog of that era was probably Code Blue! I don't want to get into discussing the merits of individuals 
dogs on a forum where most don't know what constitutes a quality FT dog.


----------



## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I guess in this case it doesn't matter who the best running dog was, but who passed on the better genetics? 

Not sure what Code Blue's track record is there.


----------



## Daren Galloway (Jun 28, 2012)

Tobias said:


> I guess in this case it doesn't matter who the best running dog was, but who passed on the better genetics?
> 
> Not sure what Code Blue's track record is there.


99 dogs sired on OFA, 21 FC or AFC, I'd take 1 in 5.


----------



## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

Pretty good odds here too
Here are just two of Maxx's breedings (twice each I believe):
DAM: FC-AFC-CNFC-CAFC Chena River No Surprise (2004 Hall of Fame)
• Chena River Cattail Kate 

•FC AFC CAFC Chena River Chavez 

• Chena River Chica 

• Chena River Red 

•FC AFC Chena River Ripple 

• Chena River Super Chica 

•FC AFC Chena River Wild Lady 

• Classic Chica's Layla 

•FC AFC Firetail's Three Bars CD MH

•FC Hawkeye's Jet Pilot 

• Landmark Ebony Prize 

• Lean Mac's Black River Tiler 

•FC Lean Mac's Kodiak 


•NFC FC AFC Maxx's Surprise 

• Vegas Roll Of The Dice 

DAM: FC Justin Time Zoe 
• Brittany Lakes Solid As A Roc QAA

• Justin Time Attitude Babe 

•FC Justin Time Mr. Moto 

• Justin Time Trump ***

• Justin Time Zoe's Angel 

•FC AFC Justin Time Zoe's Nine-one-one 

•FC Lean Mac Scooper Star MH

•CNAFC CFC AFC Northern Dancer II 

• Peakebrook's Got The Tricks MH

•FC-AFC Portland's Muddy Waters 

•AFC Princess Macdart Of Esplanade 

•FC Timber Town Trifecta 

• West Havens Justin Magic


----------



## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Not to disregard all of LM contribution to the field lines, and not saying the pups aren't worth whatever someone is willing to pay. However basing stats like highly productive sire on OFA listed dogs, only takes into account puppies that actually did OFA. Which is prone to be highly bred great preforming dogs; after all how many people do all the OFA and health clearances on dogs who don't preform and are not interested in breeding? This pretty much stacks the deck, towards a sire having more productive offspring; if we only ulitize OFA. Also stack the odds, if you were to use any of the pedigree sites, as only people with preforming dogs -pedigrees who are intrested in breeding etc. take the time to list their dogs with such sites. IMO the only way to really know would be to have an accurate count of exactly how many offspring a sire produces vs. how many are highly titled. LM was bred a bunch, most likely is one of the most used sires if not the most use sire in field labs, perhaps labs overall. Yes he has the most titled offspring, but he also has the most offspring period. Would be interesting if the AKC ever released just how many litters-puppies were registered; from a particular sire, then compare them to how many titled offspring were produced. The result would be very illuminating even if they are the same as those reflected by using OFA, pedigree sites etc. It would be much easier to list these things for females, as they only ever produce a distinct # of pups.


----------



## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Not to disregard all of LM contribution to the field lines, and not saying the pups aren't worth whatever someone is willing to pay. However basing stats like highly productive sire on OFA listed dogs, only takes into account puppies that actually did OFA. Which is prone to be highly bred great preforming dogs; after all how many people do all the OFA and health clearances on dogs who don't preform and are not interested in breeding? This pretty much stacks the deck, towards a sire having more productive offspring; if we only ulitize OFA. Also stack the odds, if you were to use any of the pedigree sites, as only people with preforming dogs -pedigrees who are intrested in breeding etc. take the time to list their dogs with such sites. IMO the only way to really know would be to have an accurate count of exactly how many offspring a sire produces vs. how many are highly titled. LM was bred a bunch, most likely is one of the most used sires if not the most use sire in field labs, perhaps labs overall. Yes he has the most titled offspring, but he also has the most offspring period. Would be interesting if the AKC ever released just how many litters-puppies were registered; from a particular sire, then compare them to how many titled offspring were produced. The result would be very illuminating even if they are the same as those reflected by using OFA, pedigree sites etc. It would be much easier to list these things for females, as they only ever produce a distinct # of pups.


The point of looking at the OFA records is not determine how many offspring were actually produced. It's to give a rough comparison between studs to determine how much they were bred compared to one another.


----------



## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Scott Adams said:


> Alain's record as a breeder of high quality retrievers speaks for itself. It is very respectable. Whatever decision he makes, *he is accountable to only himself.*


That's the simple reality. 



Charles C. said:


> The point of looking at the OFA records is not determine how many offspring were actually produced. It's to give a rough comparison between studs to determine how much they were bred compared to one another.


Ding ding.


----------



## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Tobias said:


> I guess in this case it doesn't matter who the best running dog was, but who passed on the better genetics?
> 
> Not sure what Code Blue's track record is there.


You have heard of Grady? 



Daren Galloway said:


> 99 dogs sired on OFA, 21 FC or AFC, I'd take 1 in 5.


His owner had little interest in the breeding thing.


----------



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Marvin S said:


> Enjoy your trip, the derby is only the start.


Charles C has won two derbies with that dog in the past month
Additionally he does have an all age win in the recent past. 
Tell us when you last stepped to the line and took home a blue ribbon Marv.

It is nice to see how well rounded you are Marv. 
You can be just as inaccurate on the main forum as you are on POTUS.

Such a multi talented soul
Any investment advice you'd like to proffer


----------



## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

mjh345 said:


> Charles C has won two derbies with that dog in the past month
> Additionally he does have an all age win in the recent past.


I'm sure Charles sleeps better at night knowing that such a high class individual as your self 
is vouching for his credibility.


----------



## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Now, now, gentlemen. Let's all take a deep breath.

Even if we don't care for one.another's personalities the discussion of puppy prices and sire productivity can be civil. 

Wait, i may be mistaken. May need a new poll: are rtf folks more passionate about field sires or college football?


----------



## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

rosebury dogs have "small brains." My horse is faster than your horse. My car is faster than your car. My "team" is better than yours. March "madness " approaches. Body, mind gets old or injured the comparison may shift to other "things." The real comparison is you X him/her? Maybe? Don't hang your essence on a outside object. What can "you do!" We all die as our dogs and leave this world as naked as we came in only stiff and cold. Perspective changes as does memories. Everybody does not enjoy their time trip. I had lots of older folks from 85-107 influence me as a young person. Iconoclast regards...


----------

