# Central Arkansas Retriever Club Spring FT



## Keith Holsted (Jul 17, 2003)

CARC closes tonight.3/8/2011. www.Entryexpress.net


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## WWilliams (Mar 19, 2010)

any news on the open and qual?


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## Rich Schultheis (Aug 12, 2006)

qual finished yesterday. I am sure of 1st and 2nd, think I got other two correct but apol if not.
1st - #17 Rip
2nd - #22 Amigo
3rd - #10 Remi ?
4th - #5 Vegas ?


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## duckhunter23 (Oct 9, 2010)

8 to open marks in morning. Bentley has 5 harp 2 fogg1


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

Numbers by any chance?


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## duckhunter23 (Oct 9, 2010)

5,18,19,27,28,37,46,50


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## Ten (May 4, 2009)

pondhopper said:


> qual finished yesterday. I am sure of 1st and 2nd, think I got other two correct but apol if not.
> 1st - #17 Rip
> 2nd - #22 Amigo
> 3rd - #10 Remi ?
> 4th - #5 Vegas ?



Good for Bobby Wills!! Got to meet him this past year, enjoyed his company. Thought he was a stand up guy. Congrats.


Barb


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Melanie Foster said:


> Numbers by any chance?


Well  ..one callback is very good news! Good Luck!

Judy

Edit! AM news anyone? Thanks!


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## Fast Woody (Apr 13, 2004)

partial Derby results....
1st...Lacey, Danny Luttrell
2nd...Cisco, Danny Luttrell


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## Echo41725 (Jul 25, 2004)

Heard the dog that got 3rd in the derby beached early on both birds in the 4th series while others swam down the shore. Just wondering what kind of format the judges were using for this is all?


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## SummitLabs (May 5, 2009)

Derby:

1st #7 
2nd #2 
3rd #1 
4th #4
RJ #11
Jam #9

Congratulations Danny......Lacey and Cisco make the Derby list in the same weekend!!! Also congrats to Matt for the jam with Alfie.....great job!!!


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## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Echo41725 said:


> Heard the dog that got 3rd in the derby beached early on both birds in the 4th series while others swam down the shore. Just wondering what kind of format the judges were using for this is all?


The placements are done on 4 series.
Beaching early is not, by itself, an indication of a poor mark.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Echo41725 said:


> Heard the dog that got 3rd in the derby beached early on both birds in the 4th series while others swam down the shore. Just wondering what kind of format the judges were using for this is all?


Unless I'm mistaken, the derby is suppose to be judged on marking and not trained abilities.


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## LESTER LANGLEY (Jun 12, 2008)

Scott, Jacob,--BINGO


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

"If" you wanted to set up down the shore birds than set it up such a way that "IF" the puppy beaches early he/she CAN NOT recover to find the bird. 
But you can NOT penalize the dog for having the knowledge to know where his/her birds are.(marking ability)
Big difference.
That's in all-age stakes as well. Good judges set sinarious up where "Fido" gets lost by being a "cheater" than you have to handle etc..............
Congrads to all. Open results yet???
Sue


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

Sue Kiefer said:


> sinarious




...........


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## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

It's OK, shake it off Felony dying to hear the Open results, too!


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## huskeratheart (Mar 20, 2011)

anybody who watched the derby knows the true results and thats all that matters. And yes everything will be OK. It turned out to be a great day to run and several dogs did very well congrats to all.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

One of my pet peeves is people thinking whoever does best in the last series is always the winner.

Each bird in each series matters. When determining placements, each series has to be evaluated, bird by bird.

I have no idea about this trial or anyone in it. But just remember, there will be up to 8 birds in a derby that could be judged. The first bird is just as important as the last.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

junfan68 said:


> When determining placements, each series has to be evaluated, bird by bird.


No kidding and by the *judges* holding the books that weekend. 

Nice job Echo41725 singling out a specific dog. You're going to make a lot of friends that way.


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## Matt Griffiths (Feb 3, 2004)

Congrats to Lacey, Cisco and Danny Luttrel, watched all of the Derby and those two dogs hammered it, Very Nice work!


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## Echo41725 (Jul 25, 2004)

Just asking a question is all. Didn't mean to step on anyones feelings. I understand all the yada yada about how each bird is judged and so on. Lets say 5 dogs are pretty much even going into the 4th series and you have 2 dogs that hammer both marks, 2 dogs that beach early on one bird and then do a nice job on the long bird, and then another dog that beaches early on both birds. 

Since we have some many brilliant DOG people on here i'm sure MOST of you could determine how the placements should go.

Also as i mentioned on my first post - this was what i heard.

Seems a lot of folks are taking this to heart on here if that's not the way it went down.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

Echo41725 said:


> Lets say 5 dogs are pretty much even going into the 4th series and you have 2 dogs that hammer both marks, 2 dogs that beach early on one bird and then do a nice job on the long bird, and then another dog that beaches early on both birds.
> ...this was what i heard.


Well if you had been judging you would have seen it, not "heard" it.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Echo41725 said:


> Just asking a question is all. Didn't mean to step on anyones feelings. I understand all the yada yada about how each bird is judged and so on. Lets say 5 dogs are pretty much even going into the 4th series and you have 2 dogs that hammer both marks, 2 dogs that beach early on one bird and then do a nice job on the long bird, and then another dog that beaches early on both birds.
> 
> Since we have some many brilliant DOG people on here i'm sure MOST of you could determine how the placements should go.
> 
> ...


that's the problem with internet judging, what you hear and what MAY have actually happened, and what the judges MAY have seen, could be as different as night and day...its very easy to criticize the judging from the confines of your laptop


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## huskeratheart (Mar 20, 2011)

I ran the derby and had a blast thks to the judges for giving up their weekend can't wait to run my next one.


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## Chad Clagg (Jul 8, 2006)

Ok lets say that I saw the 4th series of the derby. Lets say that the judges set up a 370 yard swim. What is the point of this mark? If I were running this mark the objective of this mark would be to STAY IN THE WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chad Clagg (Jul 8, 2006)

Congrats Danny! You earned it! But if you were there you would know what wasn't right!


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2011)

Chad Clagg said:


> Ok lets say that I saw the 4th series of the derby. Lets say that the judges set up a 370 yard swim. What is the point of this mark? If I were running this mark the objective of this mark would be to STAY IN THE WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey mr. overdone apostrophes,

The point of any field trial marking test should be that the best marking dog wins. If avoiding the obstacle (water or whatever) influences their ability to do to, so be it. If it doesn't, well that's a damn fine marking dog.

So _let's say_ you run sum then thar field trials and let us know know how that goes for ya.


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## TimThurby (May 22, 2004)

Full Qualifying Results:
1st - #17 HRCH Doc's Rebel Rip MH O/H Drew Harris
2nd - #22 High Grounds J.R.C. Three Amigos O/H Cliff Romain
3rd - #10 Crossfire's Remington O/Marlene Drag & Bruce Alhers H/Bruce
4th - #5 Vegas Action Southern Style O/Ricky Davis H/Bobby Wills
RJam- #16 Widgeons Elements Of Surprise O/John & Mary Stracka H/Jess Bentley
Jam - #1 Williams Runnin Hurricane Cache O/Robert Finley H/Mark Miles
Jam - #2 Wolf River's Big Pappy O/H Chris Christopher
Jam - #8 Wildwings Diamonds Gem Angus O/H Larry Stinson
Jam - #9 Candlewood's Code Red O/H Walt Maki
Jam - #18 Patterson Southern Delight Timber MH O/H Ryan Patterson
Jam - #19 Maverick's Marsh Reed O/H Richard Schultheis 

Thanks to Jay Chesshir, Keith Holsted, Mark Miles and others for putting on a great trial in the situation that y'all faced on losing your grounds.

Thanks to the competitors for displaying your dogs and sportsmanship, even if it was early, some with little water work or training. I never heard an excuse out of any of you. Nor did I hear any moaning and groaning. Not to say there wasn't any going on in our gallery, but I didn't make the internet, yet.  (fwiw, one series isn't the only series that the judges judge out of 4)

Congrats,
Tim


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## Chad Clagg (Jul 8, 2006)

Melanie Foster said:


> Hey mr. overdone apostrophes,
> 
> The point of any field trial marking test should be that the best marking dog wins. If avoiding the obstacle (water or whatever) influences their ability to do to, so be it. If it doesn't, well that's a damn fine marking dog.
> 
> So _let's say_ you run sum then thar field trials and let us know know how that goes for ya.


Ok Mrs. Melanie were you there?????? Lets say you and I go out training tomorrow and we set up a 350-400 yard swim on a mark. Lets say your dog beeches half way out and runs the bank 200-250 yards around the edge of the bank to the chicken. Would that be ok with you? Is that "REAL MARKING" to you?


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Chad Clagg said:


> Ok Mrs. Melanie were you there?????? Lets say you and I go out training tomorrow and we set up a 350-400 yard swim on a mark. Lets say your dog beeches half way out and runs the bank 200-250 yards around the edge of the bank to the chicken. Would that be ok with you? Is that "REAL MARKING" to you?


Chad,
You'll have to go to California. Ms. Melanie's probation officer won't allow her to go out of state.
Just trying to help in the worst way,
Becky


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## Chad Clagg (Jul 8, 2006)

As i stated earlier, congrats Danny! Dannny earned what he got.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2011)

Chad Clagg said:


> Lets say you and I go out training tomorrow


Sweet dreams there, hot stuff.


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## Jason E. (Sep 9, 2004)

Chad Clagg said:


> Ok Mrs. Melanie were you there?????? Lets say you and I go out training tomorrow and we set up a 350-400 yard swim on a mark. Lets say your dog beeches half way out and runs the bank 200-250 yards around the edge of the bank to the chicken. Would that be ok with you? Is that "REAL MARKING" to you?


How is that not real marking ??? I have judges several derbies and have also used the traditional two down the shore or have a big swim. Yes i have placed a dog higher that has gotten out way early but ran directly to the bird vs. one that swam all the way their and had a little hunt and i mean little. Just cause the dog swims all the way their doesnt mean it showed a better mark. It shows some good training and the dog that cheated will b hard to fix. There are 4 series and people always speculate who is winning or all the placements. But sit n the judges chair its a whole different view from their....

Congrats Shane on your 4th n your first derby.
Congrats to danny also for gettin both lacey and cisco on the derby list.


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## Chad Clagg (Jul 8, 2006)

Melanie, you flatter me.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Read pages 48-55 of "Retriever Field Trial Judging A Manual". It spells it out for you.


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## duckhunter23 (Oct 9, 2010)

Open results
1st Diva-Jess Bentley
2nd Betsy- Jess Bentley
3rd Ace- Joe harp
4th lassie Joe harp
rJ mercy - Bentley
Jam taz- Bentley


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## Jason E. (Sep 9, 2004)

any am results ???


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

Chad,
I'd love to go training with you.
Yes, please set up your down the shore cheater set-up. And yes, I will correct my dog for cheating as will many folks on this forum. 
But this is training AND like I explained before "If" I get to a trial and there is a cheat AND it is set up to make my poor cheaty dog get out early AND it makes him either forget his mark ,go back to an old fall,etc.. then I have to handle and I'm out.
BUT if the cheat ONLY makes him get out early and run around and get his bird without a hunt (just get there quicker) I'd be pissed that my training this week didn't make him more honest but he still won the trial because that darn dog knew where all the birds were AND didn't hunt.
Ok.?
Training vs. trialing. BIG difference.
Sue


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## Chad Clagg (Jul 8, 2006)

Ok well then let me ask ya'll this? If it doesn't matter if the dog stays in the water or at least makes a good effort to stay in, what is the purpose of this mark? Why wouldn't the judges shorten it up? If the dogs not supposed to stay in the water it would save everybody alot of time to have a shorter mark.


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## Gawthorpe (Oct 4, 2007)

Amateur Results for a beautiful weathered weekend.

1st - 7 - Martha Blank with Lassie
2nd - 6 - Bruce Ahlers - yellow dog - Tug
3rd - 13 - Jay Cheshire - Sally 
4th - 11 - Cliff Garland - Ricky
RJ - 15 - Bruce Ahlers - Gauge

Every one else in the last series earned a Jam.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2011)

Gawthorpe said:


> Every one else in the last series earned a Jam.


Yeah, just saw on EE that Lanier and Flash finished the Amateur.  Not bad for a little girl who just turned two in December and is starting her all-age career!


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Way to go Lanier and Flash!


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Way to go Lanier and Flash!!! WOW!!!


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## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Woo-Hoo Flash!!! Ok, good for you ,too, Lanier! Nice job guys!
Diane


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