# Michael Vick -- total a-hole



## Guest (Jul 17, 2007)

He was indicted on the dog fighting charges...

Part of it was that he took part in the EXECUTION of eight dogs by hanging, drowning, slamming and I forget what else... because they were not suitable for fighting

I'm about to change the channel because I'm going to vomit.

-K


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

With the tough new policy the NFL has adopted the Falcons need to be shopping for a new QB. Dante Cullpepper is now a free agent. IF he is quilty he is a @$$.


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## MardiGras (Feb 9, 2004)

:evil: Just pulled up his "official" website.... he just needs to be shot or hung himself......... that is sickening! :evil:


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## Zack (May 17, 2005)

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? 

There could never be an over eager prosecutor going after a celebrity for the glory of it. Just ask the kids on the Duke LaCrosse Team.

He is likely guilty and if so needs the book thrown at him. But I will hold my judgement for awhile.


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

Zack said:


> Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
> 
> There could never be an over eager prosecutor going after a celebrity for the glory of it. Just ask the kids on the Duke LaCrosse Team.
> 
> He is likely guilty and if so needs the book thrown at him. But I will hold my judgement for awhile.


I agree.

Larry


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

What ever happened to sports figures who were shining examples of sportsmanship and good behavior for Americas kids? Brooks Robinson, Gino Marchetti, Johnny Unitas where are you when this generation needs you????


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Considering Vick's various escapades with the law, most folks in VA that I've talked to, consider him a "THUG". 
And he continues to act like one.


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## El General (Aug 20, 2004)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> What ever happened to sports figures who were shining examples of sportsmanship and good behavior for Americas kids? Brooks Robinson, Gino Marchetti, Johnny Unitas where are you when this generation needs you????


There are bad apples in every bunch. I have met several pro athletes from various sports, and they have all been stand up guys. I even spent about 2 hours talkin' duck huntin' with former Astro Billy Spiers once (he was on of my all time favorite Astros). These guys are like you and me for the most part. I think they get painted with a broad brush. 

I think the problem is the publicity is more eye catching for the bad apples. I don't think that the problem is any worse than it was 20 or 50 years ago, it is just in your face constantly.

I agree with the above sentiment on reserving judgement until the accused is proven guilty. I also agree with 'hang 'em high' if he is guilty.

Will Schwarzlose


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Zack said:


> Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
> 
> There could never be an over eager prosecutor going after a celebrity for the glory of it. Just ask the kids on the Duke LaCrosse Team.
> 
> He is likely guilty and if so needs the book thrown at him. But I will hold my judgement for awhile.


He may not be guilty but with his background, I would still agree with kristie's statement in the title of this thread. :wink:


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

He's guilty!

I just hope he starts at QB for the Falcons this coming season. That would ensure the Falcons finishing at the bottom of the NFC South. :wink:


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Felony indictments don't get handed down without a TON of corroborating evidence...... 8) 

Hope he's got some of those pro QB millions stashed away regards,

kg


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Zack said:


> Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
> 
> There could never be an over eager prosecutor going after a celebrity for the glory of it. Just ask the kids on the Duke LaCrosse Team.
> 
> He is likely guilty and if so needs the book thrown at him. But I will hold my judgement for awhile.


 Agreed 100% Also this was I believe a grand jury indictment, and the old saying is that you could get an indictment on a ham sandwich. It is a little premature for the hanging rope!!


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## BetsyBernock (Jul 29, 2004)

I am glad to see an indictment handed down on this issue. 

I cannot even *think *of believing that he had no idea that this activity was taking place at his home and on his property!

Now hopefully NIKE will open their eyes too!!!


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

even though he hasnt been charged or tried yet he will get suspended since Roger Godell has been coming down even on guys who havent been arrested or charged.


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> What ever happened to sports figures who were shining examples of sportsmanship and good behavior for Americas kids? Brooks Robinson, Gino Marchetti, Johnny Unitas where are you when this generation needs you????


See Drew Brees. He's a great player AND person. I'm only a little biased. :wink: Who Dat! :lol:


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> What ever happened to sports figures who were shining examples of sportsmanship and good behavior for Americas kids? Brooks Robinson, Gino Marchetti, Johnny Unitas where are you when this generation needs you????


Bob there has always been the the good and bad elements in sports reflecting society at large, mostly good though. Yesterday there was Johnny Unitas, today we have Peyton Manning. For the most part the NFL has always had quality players. It is regrettable some of the athletes getting the most press are of dubious character. Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones and Michael Vick are just a handful of the the over 1500 players in the NFL.


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

I have been following this story for a while - it appears that several people have seen him at his house with the pittbulls even though he claims he has not been there for 3 years and knew nothing about it. 

I am also upset at Amazon, they not only have come out in defense of dog fighting, but they actually sell books on "how to fight dogs". I, and many others, have written to them to let them know that as long as they promote this cruel sport we will not purchase anything from them.


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

lab-a-holic said:


> I am also upset at Amazon, they not only have come out in defense of dog fighting, but they actually sell books on "how to fight dogs". I, and many others, have written to them to let them know that as long as they promote this cruel sport we will not purchase anything from them.


I assume tht you are referencing Amazon's rejection of requests that it stop selling books and publications about animal fighting as demanded by HSUS as indicated in the following excerpt from the HSUS website:



HSUS said:


> Amazon.com Continues to Fight the Bad Fight
> 
> For at least two years, Amazon.com has been infamously—and incorrectly—touting its "right" to sell materials promoting illegal animal fighting, blatantly peddling dogfighting videos as well as cockfighting magazines like The Gamecock and The Feathered Warrior.
> 
> Amazon.com seems so determined to profit from illegal animal fighting that, rather than simply drop its sales of animal fighting materials, it has filed a motion against The HSUS in federal court, essentially asking that federal and state laws to protect animals be gutted to accommodate Amazon.com's sales of animal fighting paraphernalia.


What the HSUS statements fail to note is that Amazon did not initiate any litigation. Rather, it simply replied to a law suit filed against it by HSUS to force Amazon to stop selling specific publications and DVDs. C|Net reports the following concerning this litigation:



cnetnews.com said:


> The Humane Society of the United States had filed a lawsuit a day earlier, alleging that the sale of publications that discuss the topic violates animal cruelty laws and consumer protection laws. The advocacy group asked a federal judge in Washington, D.C., to grant an injunction against Amazon.
> 
> But an Amazon representative said the company's popular policy of stocking a wide selection of books, videos and magazines (some 90,000 magazine titles alone) would not change.
> 
> ...


It should be noted that the arguments used by HSUS in suing Amazon would apply equally to the sale of any books or DVDs on hunting that depicted the actual killing of animals or provided information on how to do it. They would also apply to any DVDs that showed a field trial or hunt test using live fliers.

Personally I buy a lot from Amazon and will continue to do so. The last thing I want from a bookseller is an organization that is going to give into efforts to prevent it from selling otherwise legal reading materials. It reminds me too much of my childhood when I remember reading books in the local public library with holes in the pages where "concerned citizens" had used razorblades to cut out words they believed were objectionable.

I have no tolerance for people who commit the types of crimes alleged against Vicks and the three others charged in the indictment. However, that is not a reason for Amazon to censor the publications that it sells to satisfy the concerns of HSUS.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

mjh345 said:


> Zack said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
> ...


I think it would take one big-assed ham sandwich to get a *FEDERAL* felony indictment........... :? 

kg


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

Given his celebrity a prosecutor would have to be an idiot not to make sure he had a good case before getting an indictment.

The folks I know in the area say that law enforcement has been really peeved by how cautious the prosecutor has been. The evidence sounds pretty strong. 

Folks I know from VA Tech say he had a reputation as a dog fighter there.

I hope they lock him up for a while if he's convicted.

DH


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## [email protected]@##? (Jan 19, 2005)

Here is Sports Illustrated's story. They are usually very fair and accurate in their reporting. I think he is going down for this and deserves jail time (and worse!), but remember in an indictment, he and his lawyer were probably not there and there is no cross-examination of witness or evidence, the Grand Jury usually only gets the prosecution's version.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/07/17/dohrmann.vick/index.html?cnn=yes


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

Even if he did it, all he has to do is get O.J.'s lawyers and he'll get off. :evil:


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Anybody think one (or more) of his "homies" will turn "state's witness" to keep from serving Federal time?

Yo _Yo_ regards,

kg


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

KG, the rumor is that there is one who is close to him and willing to do so. We'll see.

What will be interesting is if any other NFL or pro athletes get caught up in this. Vick isn't the first pro to get caught doing this, just the most high profile. 

I saw a thing about Joey Porter the Steelers linebacker a while back. They toured his mult-million dollar mansion. He had this big kennel run with at least 30 pit bulls in it. Now, I'm not anti-pit bull and I have no problem with someone having lots of dogs. But let's face it, he wasn't playing in the show ring, he sure wasn't running any field trials and that's a lot of dogs just to have around for companionship.

DH


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## Jeremiah Harston (Sep 11, 2003)

Federal Indictments are not as easily obtained as State Indictments. Usually, if you are indicted by a Federal Grand Jury, you are in a world of hurt. I would not count on jail time, but I think there is a good chance of a conviction. 

These guys need to find a normal hobby like running field trials.

Jeremiah


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

Steve Hester said:


> Even if he did it, all he has to do is get O.J.'s lawyers and he'll get off. :evil:



Now this would be a big ham sandwich. He's dead.


I saw on the NFL channel that they have him giving 25,000 in cash to a guy whom his dogs lost to. Doesn't look good for him. Especially after his meeting with the commish. Where he said that he had nothing to do with dog fighting what-so-ever.


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289729,00.html

Electrocuting and drowning dogs not to mention dog fighting is sick enough, but I'll bet its the alleged gambling that will drive the NFL nuts. Like this jerk really needed the money!


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## duckster (May 20, 2007)

***WOW****
It's amzaing that people who children look up to are really this sick!!!
My 11 year old son is a sports freak!! He had ACL surgery and is unable to play so he watches it 24/7. He has been talking about this. It's hard to explain that such a "idol" is so SICK and just because they are "professionals" doesn't mean they are good people. He loves dogs and to see someone like Vick do that made him sick!!!


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

I think the stance for a "hunter' or retriever "trialer" to take would be on the legality issues. To make a big stance on the moral side of this might not be as prudent as the legal side. HPW


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## Richard Finch (Jul 26, 2006)

*Amen*

Amen Harry!




Richard


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## Devlin (Jan 19, 2006)

IF he's guilty, and it would surprise me if he's not, then the s.o.b. probably needs a good old-fashioned ass whippin' in addition to whatever the law hands him. But I have to side with Harry on this one...it's the legal system, not the issues of morality, that needs to be used to punish anyone who's guilty of crimes like these. Let the courts do their job. Then take him behind the barn and kick his ass.


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

I enjoy watching these threads and how hyped up people get over someone like Michael Vick. I mean really, what affect will Michael Vick ever have on you in your lifetime? I don't get why people waste their time worrying about what someone like him or Paris Hilton are doing.

Now, I'm going to expand on what, I think, Harry is talking about, and throw some thoughts out there for discussion sake.

I've made this statement and I've heard it here a time or two. "My dogs are doing what they were bred to do!" Now I don't know all the details on this case and I'm going to put the fact that it is against the law to the side for a second, but part of what was happening was they were fighting dogs. Dogs that were bred to fight. So, if you look at it in this light, they were merely playing a different sort of game than what we are playing. Now, obviously, our dogs don't get mangled while playing our game. My point is, I don't like it when people try to tell me what I can and can't do, and organizations are just chomping at the bit to keep us from playing our game. So in an effort to not be hypocritical, I'm going to say "I don't care what Vick choses to do with his dogs". I do know this though, dog fighting is never going to go away!

Is this the wrong way to look at this? Probably, and I know I'm going to get flamed for it here. But, I really could care less if people are fighting dogs, or fighting chickens, or poking a Brahma bull with a cattle prod to get it to buck harder. 

I know people will say that the dogs were being treated inhumanely, and I certainly wouldn't treat a dog this way. But, is a dog more dead whether you give it an injection, shoot it, bludgeon it with a hammer, or hang it from a tree? I would certainly not be surprised to find out that all of these methods have been utilized by people even on this board.

So, there you go. Let the flaming begin! Just remember this, this is my opinion on the matter and the last time I checked it was ok to have one in this country.

Larry


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> What ever happened to sports figures who were shining examples of sportsmanship and good behavior for Americas kids? Brooks Robinson, Gino Marchetti, Johnny Unitas where are you when this generation needs you????


Bob,

Here's one!










Larry


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

laranie labs said:


> I'm going to put the fact that it is against the law to the side for a second,


But the point is DOG FIGHTING IS AGAINST THE LAW

Hunting, field trialing, bull riding are LEGAL ACTIVITIES, and therein lies the difference, no matter how repugnant we may find treating dogs like these dogs were alleged to have been treated

As a veterinarian I deal with end of life issues everyday, HUMANELY ending life, there is nothing humane about electrocution, drowning, bludgeoning, and shooting dogs to end their lives (all allegations of course)


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## msdaisey (May 13, 2004)

As Ed said, it is illegal.

A whole other problem with this is cultural. We have have a generation of young people who will not work, who think drugs and stealing are OK, and who also think it's OK to dispose of animals (and people) in this manner. Abuse of animals is one of the five MAJOR warning signs of a seroius nutcase.

I get to teach the most f#$#$%ed up of the f#$%&ed up bunch of these children. Five years ago I made a whole more difference than I do now. 

I am glad reality doesn't affect you, Larry. When they steal the dogs out of your kennel to use as bait, maybe you'll realize there is a problem. Happens every day.


Sorry to rant,

Sondra


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

> But the point is DOG FIGHTING IS AGAINST THE LAW


*I* realize that, but I don't think that's where the animosity toward Vick on this issue is coming from.



> there is nothing humane about electrocution, drowning, bludgeoning, and shooting dogs to end their lives


I am a hunter who was brought up in a family of hunters. There have been many instances where the humane thing to do in "end of life issues" was to shoot an animal in order to ease it's pain. 

Again, I would never electrocute, drown, or bludgeon a dog or any other animal...but I would shoot one under certain circumstances if I had to.

Larry


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Dog Fighting and Dog training/trailing arent even remotely related. If you think they are, you better either stop doing drugs or get on some.

If some people are ok with dogs fighting to the death, serious injury then killed, well...............You are different then me................waaaayyyy different!! It doesnt matter who is doing it in my opinion, dog fighting is wrong/immoral/unethical etc.


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

> I am glad reality doesn't affect you, Larry. When they steal the dogs out of your kennel to use as bait, maybe you'll realize there is a problem.


I can't understand why you would make this statement toward me. Why can't a guy express a thought without getting pissed on? My dogs have nothing to do with the fact that I'm having a discussion. I take this as a personal attack in the midst of a rational debate.

Larry


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

No wonder we have so many FUBAR kids like the ones Sondra describes. Oftentimes they grow up without a father or other significant positive male role model in the home. Then they find a role model like Vick, or Dexter Manley or Ron Artest, or Mark McGuire to list a few athletes or some thug rapper to emulate. I assume the mindset is that if Dexter snorts coke or Fifty Cent treats women like Hos then its ok for them to do like their heros. Its a sad state of affairs for sure.

When I was in college I intended to become a teacher. I am really glad I became a flatfoot instead. At least I could carry a gun and protect myself. Teachers ought to get combat or atleast hazardous duty pay.


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## msdaisey (May 13, 2004)

laranie labs said:


> > I am glad reality doesn't affect you, Larry. When they steal the dogs out of your kennel to use as bait, maybe you'll realize there is a problem.
> 
> 
> I can't understand why you would make this statement toward me. Why can't a guy express a thought without getting pissed on? My dogs have nothing to do with the fact that I'm having a discussion. I take this as a personal attack in the midst of a rational debate.
> ...


Did NOT mean it as a personal attack at all, but until you deal with the 'current acceptable culture' first-hand, you have no idea what you are dealing with. They would have no problem stealing your dogs and using them for 'training' purposes, so I believe that your dogs are relevant. It has happened around here more than once, and it is frustrating to see people victimized by criminals (which is what dogfighters are) who don't give a crap.

Didn't mean it against you, but the current thugism. And trust me, those folks are not rational in the least. And you did invite flaming! :wink: 

Sondra


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

> And you did invite flaming!


I know! :lol: 

It's fun sometimes!!! :twisted: 

Larry


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

I wasn't going to post to this, but CBS News tonight showed a very graphic piece on dog fighting-in relation to this I'm sure. I can't imagine any amount of $ that would entice a person w/ a heart or any sense of responsibility for another living thing to particpate in this.

It is gut wrenching at best. No dog deserves that life.

M


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

YardleyLabs - whatever your issues with the HSUS are - they should have no bearing on this. 

Dog fighting is not only a cruel and inhumane "sport"- it is a criminal activity and ILLEGAL. 

It is a proven fact that this type of behaviour leads to other acts of violence - more often than not - toward people as well. 

It is a proven fact that children who grow up thinking this type of cruel behavior is "cool" end up performing acts of violence toward people. 

Material teaching kids (and adults) how to fight dogs should not be sold, I for one will never again order anything from Amazon, and I have ordered plenty in the past. 

I am very sorry to hear that such behavior does not effect you.


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## Jana Knodel (Jan 16, 2006)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> What ever happened to sports figures who were shining examples of sportsmanship and good behavior for Americas kids? Brooks Robinson, Gino Marchetti, Johnny Unitas where are you when this generation needs you????


There are still some good ones I know Shawn Alexander for the Seahawks does a ton of community work helping out the community and has a program to help kids who need a little more help in school and such to succeed. HE does a ton as do a lot of the other Seahawks players now I am sure there are a lot of other teams players who do the same thing but I am just familar with the Seahawks cause they are my team. 

Jana


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

lab-a-holic said:


> YardleyLabs...
> I am very sorry to hear that such behavior does not effect you.


In all fairness to Yardley he did state that he has no tolerance for what Vick is accused of.


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

Just a guess but I don't think many of the folks involved in dog fighting are reading a lot of books.

Just a thought.

Also, I just did a search on Amazon and it seems that most of the books on the subject are used books being sold by third party vendors. They also tend to be what I would call historical texts, one published in 1888 one in 1935. The only movies I saw more documentaries than training films. Maybe there is more I didn't keep searching.

I think about some of the historical dog training books from 50+ years ago and they advocated some methods HSUS and most people would find pretty objectionable these days--peppering dogs with birdshot comes to mind. But I'd hate to see Amazon pressured into not selling them. I think it is important to see where we came from.

DH


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

Lots of pressure on the Falcons and the NFL Commish to do something with Vick. The Falcons are finished without Vick and they would take a huge cap hit if they released him. I can't imagine the team not wanting to get rid of him anyway. The NFL dealt with Pacman Jones severely...I wonder if the commish has the courage to do the same with Mr. Vick.

But I bet teams would be lining up for the services of Vick if the Falcons could release him. Sad.

Vick has jeapordized a 9-digit contract with the Falcons plus all the endorsement deals he has just so he could participate in something as barbaric as dog fighting. Unbelievable. If he's guilty I hope he's brought to justice.

And his first day in court is the same day football players report for training. Good for ratings at ESPN but bad for the NFL.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

The NFL annouced yesterday that they were going to let the legal system play out before making a decision on Vick's NFL future. It was the prudent decision because if Vick is determined innocent, the NFL would face a huge liability. Though I think he is guilty, if he is tried by his peers (see O J Simpson) he could he cleared of all charges. 

I think Jimmy Mora, the former Falcon's headcoach realized that you can't win big with a QB that is more inclined to run with the ball than passing it or handing it off. He may win a game here and there running around but, no team can win the big ones with him at QB.


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## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

As with many of you, I'm anxiously awaiting the start of another NFL season (maybe THIS is the Lions year?!?), but this REALLY cast a dark shadow over it for me.

This news (if true) is just sickening. A guy in Vick's position, a role model to young kids and grown-ups alike, should have known better than to be affiliated with such a thing. Dog fighting happens all over the country every day. As bad as this is, at least it might put a little more heat on the issue and cause others to think twice about it. If it saves one dog from meting with a brutal end, it will be worth it.

What bothers me is listening to all the sports talk radio programs and hearing some callers complaining that this is just another attack on a successful prominent black athlete. How in the he!! did being black become part of the issue here??? Being ignorant, arrogant, assanine and inhumane, YES. Black... No! Why do some people always try to turn things like this into racial issues? It isn't about race... it's about the respect for life in any form. I guess they just don't get it.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

If the NFL steps in, as I think they will, no team will be picking up Vick. There are a few teams out there that don’t care (the Raiders, Cowboys, and Bengal’s come to mind) if they have thugs on their team or not, but If the NFL bans him it will be for at least a year. Based on Vicks string of infractions during his NFL career I think the pool interested in him following a suspension will be few. Furthermore, Vick has always been a media favorite, but his performance on the field has never lived up to his expectations. He is a one dimensional player and every “running” QB in the league runs into one problem…They lose a step or two and the repeated pounding takes it toll. I have felt for the last two seasons that Vick really had to do something this year or it was going to be a downward spiral for the rest of his career. I am not saying he was/is a bad player, but other than running he is not all that and the running doesn’t always work so well for him against a fast defense. Vick certainly will never be remembered along the lines of Marino, Farve, Young, …. At best in 10 years you may see a young Vick on an NFL Films highlight reel. 
I really hope the NFL does as it claims it is going to and starts holding these sorry excuses for a human accountable and boots all of them out of the NFL. They do not need these guys, there are plenty more out there. How much impact has Vick had on the NFL. Pretty much none unless you are a Falcon fan and even then not much. I am telling you in 10 years he will simply be a footnote in the NFL’s history.
I heard on a radio talk show this morning that Federal indictments have a 90% conviction rate, not counting plea bargaining. I am not sure if this is true, but that is what this lawyer on the show was saying. Ham samich my ass.


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

The Falcons could tell Vick to take a paid leave of absence while this thing works its way through the legal system. If not, the Georgia Dome will be the Georgia Zoo all year long. Tough call either way for the team owner.

I just heard on the radio that Nike has decided to go ahead with the release the its new Nike\Michael Vick shoe as planned even with all the problems Vick faces. Interesting decision and I wonder how the shoe will sell.


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

A few years ago Nike came out with ads showing a pitt bull squaring off against a rottweillers - there were so many complaints that they only ran the ad a couple of months here but I heard they kept running it in europe. I could be wrong - but it appears that Nike really goes after the business of the ghetto kids - the ones in gangs who want to prove how tough they are by committing violent acts. Very sad.


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

The Falcons and the NFL could suspend him. The collective bargaining agreement allows it. Pac-Man Jones hasn't been convicted of anything either.

DH


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

You do not have to be convicted of anything to break an employer's CoC or ethics.


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## El General (Aug 20, 2004)

DH said:


> The Falcons and the NFL could suspend him. The collective bargaining agreement allows it. Pac-Man Jones hasn't been convicted of anything either.
> 
> DH


The NFL can ban him, and the Falcons can suspend him with pay, but the state laws od Georgia determine whether or not the Falcons can suspend him without pay.


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

I don't care whether or not they pay him but they should suspend him.

DH


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

DH said:


> I don't care whether or not they pay him but they should suspend him.
> 
> DH


First- IF he is convicted, the he will be suspended from the NFL. NO question about that. The NFL suspended Alex Karris for gambling for a year. There is the dog fighting issue and on top of that there is the gambling issue. The NFL will take both VERY seriously. You can take that to the bank.

Second- IF he is convicted he will go to jail. 

Third- The Federal Prosecutor's Office has 95% success rate. No ham sandwich there. Reports say there are TWO witnesses who place Vick on the property during dog fights. One who was a winner of one of the dog fights states he was personally handed a sack with $23,000 in cash by Vick.
I personally doubt any team would sign Vick if he is convicted.

Side Note- The court where the indictments were handed down is known as the "docket rocket" and cases move through at a fast pace. Vick's lawyers will try to drag the process out, but expect the case to be over within 9 months.[/u]


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

I am wondering why the Commissioner hasn't already dropped the hammer. Pac Man and Tank were suspended before they were convicted on the latest charges, but the Big Kahuna is waiting for the legal process to work itslef out with Vick. PITA and HSUS(of animal rights bolshevik fame) want him suspended. Its one of few if any times I have agreed with their ideas.

I believe that the US District Court where this case will take place is part of the IV Federal Circuit. If that is correct, Vick's chances on appeal will not be too good. The IV Circuit is one of if not the most conservative in the country.


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## El General (Aug 20, 2004)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> I am wondering why the Commissioner hasn't already dropped the hammer.


I am guessing, because of the financial ramifications of Vick's 100 million dollar contract. Tank and Pac-man didn't make that much. They are also taking this as a first offense, which was not the case for tank or pacman.


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

El General said:


> Bob Gutermuth said:
> 
> 
> > I am wondering why the Commissioner hasn't already dropped the hammer.
> ...


Exactly correct, the new NFL policy addresses repeat offenses. Which was the case with Tank and Pak, not the case with Vick. The NFL has to wait until the judicial process is over with. And IF he is convicted they will undoubtedly take action.


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

They do not have to wait for Vick to be convicted. Pac Man Jones has not been convicted of anything. It is also not a first offense, he was caught with the marijuana residue in his water bottle in the airport. Again not convicted but the NFL has an agreement with the union that the commish can suspend players for any action that puts the league in a bad light, whether convicted or not.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Goose said:


> I just heard on the radio that Nike has decided to go ahead with the release the its new Nike\Michael Vick shoe as planned even with all the problems Vick faces. Interesting decision and I wonder how the shoe will sell.


Not so fast. Mike "Just Did It"

ATLANTA (AP) - Michael Vick's legal troubles prompted Nike on Thursday to suspend the release of its latest product line named after the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.
Nike has told retailers it will not release a fifth signature shoe, the Air Zoom Vick V, this summer. Stoyer said the four shoe products and three shirts that currently bear Vick's name will remain in stores.
Vick will be arraigned next week in a Richmond, Va., federal courtroom on charges of sponsoring a gruesome dogfighting operation.

Nike spokesman Dean Stoyer said the company still has a standing contract with Vick but declined to speculate on his future with Nike.

A statement released by Nike Inc. said the company "is concerned by the serious and highly disturbing allegations made against Michael Vick, and we consider any cruelty to animals inhumane and abhorrent. We do believe that Michael Vick should be afforded the same due process as any citizen; therefore, we have not terminated our relationship."

Stoyer, who declined to discuss terms of Vick's contract with Nike, indicated the company has no commercials or documentaries planned with the three-time NFL Pro Bowl selection.

In years past, Nike has run footage and interviews with Vick on its Web site, but none of the video promotions are currently posted.

"Some of that was shown on a limited run based on rights and usage," Stoyer said. "There's nothing new planned."

Vick signed his current contract with Nike in 2001, the same year Atlanta chose him as the NFL's No. 1 overall draft pick.


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## Goldenboy (Jun 16, 2004)

I've lost faith in the justice system (see O.J., amongst others) and believe that enough money and lawyers can be brought to bear to make any charges go away, regardless of merit. 

As Frank Zappa once said, "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced."


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

With all the money Vick has he will probably be able to pay off people to say he was not there. Look at the the stuff his brother got away with at Virginia because the Vick's had donated so much money to the school. I hope I am wrong though.


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## Jaydot (Mar 20, 2004)

Just one pack of animals fighting and betting on another pack of animals.

Plain and simple


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

lab-a-holic said:


> With all the money Vick has he will probably be able to pay off people to say he was not there. Look at the the stuff his brother got away with at Virginia because the Vick's had donated so much money to the school. I hope I am wrong though.


He is not the only one in trouble for this. Do not be surprised to find out that one of his homeys turns on him to save his own butt. Vick may walk away without doing time (fines and probation) but that is because he has the money. His buddies don’t.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Mike Vick is very fortunate that I won't be in charge of sentencing him...I'm thinking let a group of his pit bulls go about 2 days without food then throw Vick in a room with them wearing nothing but bloody underwear. Some will say that makes me as bad as him, but if I were "king for a day" that would be his fate and I'd distribute a video of it to dog fighting rings as notice of what was in store for them if I caught them.

I am a lifelong Falcon fan, but I will never root for them again as long as he is an active member of the team (I know Blank may have to wait for some due process to actually can him).

Vick is worse than just your average piece of crap who attends/bets on dog fighting. Vick provided a venue and training "facilities" and capital to the illegal industry, so he enabled one heck of a lot of barbaric treatment of animals and he enabled the local criminal (see gang/drug) culture too. He is lower than whale crap.

Vick could be innocent, yeah and OJ didn't kill Nicole and Ron. I'm not saying we shouldn't wait for a conviction to punish him (i.e. lynch mob), but I don't need the jury to tell me whether he did it or not. They get to say whether we get to punish his sorry butt, but they don't determine reality. A criminal is a criminal whether he gets caught, tried and convicted or not. Have you seen the aerial photos of his dog fighting compound? Yeah, he didn't know what was going on back there...yeah, thats the ticket!


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm with you huntindawg.


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

Here is one of the books Amazon sells http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Pit-Fight...2909208?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184904879&sr=8-3 

Here is a DVD on dog fighting - read the reviews. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_g...ps&field-keywords=dog+fighting&Go.x=4&Go.y=10


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

Personally, I would prefer the following -- http://www.amazon.com/Contingency-C...2224639?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184925571&sr=1-3 which at least offers some interesting meal recipes or this -- http://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Eric-S...2-2224639?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1184926033&sr=1-2 where I get to see a couple of dozen people actually kill themselves.

Tongue in cheek regards,

:twisted:


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

Lab-a-holic, 

As I said, the book was published in 1888. I consider that a historical text. Just like other dog training books that advocate methods we no longer use, or African hunting books talking about how to kill 50 elephants a day.

The video is clearly a documentary and the reviews said that is exposes dog fighting as the cruelty that it is.

I'm totally against dog fighting, but I can't team up with HSUS on getting the books banned. I truly believe that books advocating an ear pinch or explaining how to shackle ducks would be next.

DH


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

DH said:


> Lab-a-holic,
> 
> As I said, the book was published in 1888. I consider that a historical text. Just like other dog training books that advocate methods we no longer use, or African hunting books talking about how to kill 50 elephants a day.
> 
> ...


HSUS or PETA be damned. Banning books is bad business and against our Constitution. I don’t like these books, but from a historical perspective I would own them. I have a couple of old market hunting books in my library. That does not mean I am in favor of it. I also have a biography of Hitler. Doesn’t mean I like him or anything he did or stood for, but it is history. Using the logic that something is wrong and therefore should be banned would mean that anything having a reference to slavery, war, crime, Shindlers (sic?)List… should be banned. Very slippery slope. 
Equally as dangerous is siding on anything with groups that mean to do harm to your way of life or impose their believes as the only acceptable ones.


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

Well said BadBullGator.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Good post BBG


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## Goldenboy (Jun 16, 2004)

badbullgator said:


> Equally as dangerous is siding on anything with groups that mean to do harm to your way of life or impose their believes as the only acceptable ones.


Let me get this straight, you are *for* dog fighting? :roll:


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Goldenboy said:


> badbullgator said:
> 
> 
> > Equally as dangerous is siding on anything with groups that mean to do harm to your way of life or impose their believes as the only acceptable ones.
> ...


BBG is clearly referring to the fact that the HSUS is against the things we enjoy such as owning and/or breeding a dog, training that dog to hunt, using birds to train the dog to hunt, actually hunting with or without a dog, fishing, etc. and he doesn't want to align himself with them under any circumstances.


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## Waterfowl Retrievers (Jun 20, 2004)

Lets face it folks, a lot of folks out there who don't like anyone having dogs used for anything but pets. This is a tricky situation. 

I have already heard of two columnists calling these pit bulls "sporting dogs" and we know that this is so far from the truth. But when you get lumped in together, it gives the "antis" ammo. BBG, I get your point. 

I know of instances where trainers were slammed in the paper for force fetching dogs, causing them to yelp and leaving sores on their ears. It hurt their business for a long time. Perception to some is that this is torture, yet we do it for the greater good of an animal we ultimately love. 

If you are fighting dogs you are the scum of the earth. If Vick is guilty, my stance is we should hang a few cheap steaks around his neck and put 5 or 6 of those hungry pit bulls in the ring with him and give him a dose of his own medicine. When they are done with him, slam him to the ground, shock him a few times then put him away for ever. 

If Nike and everyone else does not drop him, I have bought my last shoe, and watched my last Falcons game forever. Paul


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Goldenboy said:


> badbullgator said:
> 
> 
> > Equally as dangerous is siding on anything with groups that mean to do harm to your way of life or impose their believes as the only acceptable ones.
> ...


Lets get this straight. I am not FOR dog fighting in any way, shape, or form. What I am taking about is the post that wants to join HSUS in it boycott of Amazon because they sell books about dog fighting. What I am FOR is freedom of the press, speech, ….. Banning books is bad and dog fighting is bad. 
That clear it up for you goldie? :wink:


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

I view both the NFL and the Atlanta falcons as spineless. Michael Vick should be suspended pending the outcome of the trial. Due process..horse hockey. Vick's contract will have a morals somesuch clause and it should be invoked.

If he's found guilty, banned for life.

The only way these bad behaviors are going to be stopped is if they aren't tolerated.

Vick can't be on the field this year because the commotion will destroy the game. PETA and HSUS and tons of fans will protest at each and every game. If you were Chicago, would you like to play Atlanta with the baggage that Vick will bring with him?

If convicted, adios. One of the greatest careers that could have been....

Eric


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

I don't care when the book was originally written - it was published agains recently - the containts of the book: The Dog Pit - Or, How To Select, Breed, Train And Manage Fighting Dogs, With Points As To Their Care In Health And Disease - Anyway you look at it it's a book designed to "educate" people on how to fight dogs. 

A few years ago the Chicago Anti-Cruelty Society decided to try instilling compassion to kids in "bad" neighborhoods. They went to the schools showing videos of dog fighting. At first the schools objected because they said the kids had enough problems they didn't want to get involved with the problems of dogs. The school had totally missed the point - dog fighting IS part of the problem - it desensitises kids to cruelty and violence - these kids grow up to commit other acts of violence - once they realized this they allowed the videos to be shown. 

Unfortunately it didn't work - these kids thought dog fighting was "cool" they watched the videos with rapt attention - and enjoyment - snikering and making "favorable" comments all the way through. Even at their young age they had already been desensitized to cruelty, after all it all starts with their parents who take them to dog fights. 

Anyone who thinks that does fighting has nothing to do with them is sadly mistaken - we live in a violent society - dog fighting is just part of it and the violence spills over to people.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

Yes but boycotting Amazon or trying to get them to stop selling books on dog fighting will have ZERO effect on these little sociopaths in training. You think they (or their mamas or baby daddies) read? Teaching them to read might be a first step...banning books isn't going to do the trick.

You can buy a book on just about any illegal or immoral thing you want. Censoring their availability isn't going to make anyone suddenly turn moral or law-abiding.


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

lab-a-holic said:


> I don't care when the book was originally written - it was published agains recently - the containts of the book: The Dog Pit - Or, How To Select, Breed, Train And Manage Fighting Dogs, With Points As To Their Care In Health And Disease - Anyway you look at it it's a book designed to "educate" people on how to fight dogs.
> 
> A few years ago the Chicago Anti-Cruelty Society decided to try instilling compassion to kids in "bad" neighborhoods. They went to the schools showing videos of dog fighting. At first the schools objected because they said the kids had enough problems they didn't want to get involved with the problems of dogs. The school had totally missed the point - dog fighting IS part of the problem - it desensitises kids to cruelty and violence - these kids grow up to commit other acts of violence - once they realized this they allowed the videos to be shown.
> 
> ...


Dog fighting has been around for many, many years and I'm sorry to tell you that after all of this Vick business goes away...it's still going to be around. And no amount of book banning is going to change that! I'm a little hesitant to place so much emphasis on dog fighting as a key perpetrator in our society's rate of violence.

I'm thinking along the lines as BBG. I'd rather not side with HSUS or PETA and merely let the legal side of this issue take precedence. In fact, I may just put in an order with Amazon today...just cuz!

Larry


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

Lab-a-holic, there are two separate issues that you insist on confusing. With respect to dog fighting, no one here has indicated anything except disgust. What you are proposing, however, is censorship. You are accusing those who oppose censorship of supporting dog fighting. You're wrong. The reprinted 1888 book that leads you to call for a boycott of Amazon currently ranks 185,550 in their popularity list. My guess is that publicity surrounding the HSUS boycott is responsible for the majority of sales to date just as HSUS inspired comments represent almost every one of the 47 "reviews" of the book.

Do you really think that Amazon is defending itself in court to protect the tens of dollars in sales that it has been receiving from its "promotion" of these publications? No. It is defending its own right to sell legal publications whether it agrees with them or not. For example, it sells many more copies of books by Peter Singer, an ethicist at Princeton and author of Animal Liberation, who would almost certainly classify our treatment of ducks as being almost as bad as Vick's alleged treatment of dogs.

I don't think that censoring these publications would have any financial impact on Amazon (actually it might help them). I also don't think it would have any impact on dog fighting. It would have an affect on all of our freedoms because every group with a divine mission would then know that they could pressure Amazon to help suppress the things they hate. Our sport would probably not be far behind.


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## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Some of my more distant relatives, wearing brown shirts and Hakenkruez arm bands tried bookbanning or bookburning if you will in Germany in the 1930's based on the religion of the authors. The whole idea is a slippery slope down which I hope we as a nation never descend. In my mind, dog fighting is about as barbaric as cannabalism, or human sacrifice, but I do not favor banning books on either subject.(betcha most of todays gangsta dog fighters can't read anyway). If we ban the dogfighting books today, I look forward to PETA and HSUS making an effort to ban "The Old Man and the Boy", and "Horn of the Hunter" tomorrow, and the "DU Game Cookbook" next week.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

It should be noted that those who are calling for a boycott of Amazon are not neccessarily talking about banning books. It is one thing to ban a book - that is a legislative action, or possibly a judicial one. However, if people were to boycott Amazon and make them understand that it is not financially beneficial to sell that kind of book, that is another thing altogether. That isn't censorship or "book banning." I don't think a boycott of Amazon will work because not enough people will participate, but there is nothing wrong with Amazon's customers attempting a boycott or letting Amazon know how they feel about Amazon offering such a book for sale. Huge difference there.


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## Laranie Labs (Apr 9, 2006)

Well, I for one, will call Amazon's customer service and congratulate them on having a spine!

Larry


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> No wonder we have so many FUBAR kids like the ones Sondra describes. Oftentimes they grow up without a father or other significant positive male role model in the home. Then they find a role model like Vick, . . . .


*Precisely why I worry this will make dog-fighting even more popular with some elements of society. *


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

First of all - I did not call for a boycott - I simply said that I will never purchase from them again - if it makes you feel better to call Amazon and congratulate them on having a spine - there is nothing I can do to stop you - I just have to wonder what type of person you are that you would be so supportive of these "educational" books and videos - but since I will never meet you it does not matter. Case closed.


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## RexG (Mar 16, 2006)

Did anyone else see the AKC response:

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/press_center/LETTER_TO_NFL_COMMISSIONER_07202007.pdf


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

I had not - thank you for posting it.


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

That's a very powerful AKC response. I hope it has some influence of the NFL comm.
But I think they will let the courts decide.

Vick is losing credability faster than a shedding dog. Nike has suspended a new shoe release, and others have or are about to drop associations with Vick.

What a waste of such alhletic talent. I wonder where Vick's "home boys" are now.

13 million a year and he continues to do stupid things.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

lablover said:


> 13 million a year and he continues to do stupid things.


Dress him up, pay him riches beyond his dreams to play a game, you can't change what is in the heart.

Very sad.


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

I have a friend that had his Labrador stolen last January. The dog had AA points and it broke his heart that the dog was stolen. He put out fliers for a reward for the return of the dog, advertised in newspapers and never found the dog. I can't help but wonder if the dog was used as a bait dog for dog fights. I wish the feds and local police across the country would hone in on the people that put on these illegal activities and toss them in jail where they belong.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2007)

Roger Perry said:


> I have a friend that had his Labrador stolen last January. The dog had AA points and it broke his heart that the dog was stolen. He put out fliers for a reward for the return of the dog, advertised in newspapers and never found the dog. I can't help but wonder if the dog was used as a bait dog for dog fights. I wish the feds and local police across the country would hone in on the people that put on these illegal activities and toss them in jail where they belong.


From where was the dog stolen?  This always worrys me...

-K


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

I live in the Chicagoland area - several years ago they put it on the news to NEVER let your dog out in the yard by him/her self - so many dogs were being stolen oput of their yards to be used as pitbull bait - the only reason my dogs go out by themselves is because I have a 6' tall fence - padlocked in the inside. 

The sargent in charge on tracking down dog fight offenders also told us to NEVER - NEVER advertise a puppy or kitten free to a good home. He said what looks like a nice couple with kids will come to your house pretending to be nice people and then use your animal as pitbull bait. He said people should always charge at least $200.00 - he told us if you don't want the money send it back to them - but NEVER give a puppy or kitten free to someone you don't know.


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## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

Well, he's been ordered not to go to camp. Notice the story mentions PETA and HSUS but not the AKC letter, not surprising.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2946832


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

On Letterman last night Drew Carey said that if vick plays he will not be watch ANY NFL games this season. I hope they listen and sack the POS. I bet he wont get jail time if he goes to court but get in his pocket for being a allhose.


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## retrevrman (Mar 6, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> If the NFL steps in, as I think they will, no team will be picking up Vick. There are a few teams out there that don’t care (the Raiders, Cowboys, and Bengal’s come to mind) if they have thugs on their team or not, but If the NFL bans him it will be for at least a year. Based on Vicks string of infractions during his NFL career I think the pool interested in him following a suspension will be few. Furthermore, Vick has always been a media favorite, but his performance on the field has never lived up to his expectations. He is a one dimensional player and every “running” QB in the league runs into one problem…They lose a step or two and the repeated pounding takes it toll. I have felt for the last two seasons that Vick really had to do something this year or it was going to be a downward spiral for the rest of his career. I am not saying he was/is a bad player, but other than running he is not all that and the running doesn’t always work so well for him against a fast defense. Vick certainly will never be remembered along the lines of Marino, Farve, Young, …. At best in 10 years you may see a young Vick on an NFL Films highlight reel.
> I really hope the NFL does as it claims it is going to and starts holding these sorry excuses for a human accountable and boots all of them out of the NFL. They do not need these guys, there are plenty more out there. How much impact has Vick had on the NFL. Pretty much none unless you are a Falcon fan and even then not much. I am telling you in 10 years he will simply be a footnote in the NFL’s history.
> I heard on a radio talk show this morning that Federal indictments have a 90% conviction rate, not counting plea bargaining. I am not sure if this is true, but that is what this lawyer on the show was saying. Ham samich my ass.


The Cowboys have been boyscouts for over ten years now. That was in the 90s...so I would appreciate it as a Cowboys fan since I can remember that you do not associate the current Cowboys roster with teams like the Bengals and such. I think that they have done alot ot correct and change things for the better. 

Some people just need to let things go after 10yrs... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Looking forward to Michael Irvin going into the Hall of Fame this year regards...

Greg


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

retrevrman said:


> The Cowboys have been boyscouts for over ten years now. That was in the 90s...so I would appreciate it as a Cowboys fan since I can remember that you do not associate the current Cowboys roster with teams like the Bengals and such. I think that they have done alot ot correct and change things for the better.


Like picking up T.O.?

Eagles fan regards,


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

YardleyLabs said:


> Like picking up T.O.?,


he might be a PITA but he's NOT a criminal


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

Agreed, although PITA may understate the amount of damage he can do. He's definitely a lot of fun to watch when he decides to play.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

I am puzzled that some fans and commentators are trying to turn Vick's troubles into a racial issue. :? 

There have been several calls to the local D/FW sports talk station essentially saying that the public outrage is because Vick is African American, if he were white the backlash would be significantly less.

then good guy Emmitt Smith says

“Now, granted he might have been to a dogfight a time or two, maybe five times, maybe 20 times, may have bet some money, but he’s not the one you’re after. He’s not the one you’re after, he’s just the one whose going to take the fall — publicly.”

never mentioning the fact that Bad Newz Kennel is on property owned by Michael Vick :?


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## retrevrman (Mar 6, 2003)

YardleyLabs said:


> retrevrman said:
> 
> 
> > The Cowboys have been boyscouts for over ten years now. That was in the 90s...so I would appreciate it as a Cowboys fan since I can remember that you do not associate the current Cowboys roster with teams like the Bengals and such. I think that they have done alot ot correct and change things for the better.
> ...


T.O. maybe a jerk and I don't like the fact that he is on the Cowboys but as an Eagles fan, which I take it that you hate the Cowboys, I don't want to assume that, however from my many TDY trips to Philly and saw the t-shirts being sold in downtown that said "Dallas sucks, T.O. swallows"....he isn't on my christmas card list however he hasn't done anything illegal or against the law.

Greg


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

The Atlanta coach sez they need another 'arm' to play behind Joey Harrington.

I think Quincy Carter's available. :lol:


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Goose said:


> The Atlanta coach sez they need another 'arm' to play behind Joey Harrington.


do you suppose the Falcons are having some regrets about trading Matt Schaub


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## retrevrman (Mar 6, 2003)

EdA said:


> Goose said:
> 
> 
> > The Atlanta coach sez they need another 'arm' to play behind Joey Harrington.
> ...


Yep :wink: but he is like what 47mil richer with the Texans...

Greg


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

retrevrman said:


> EdA said:
> 
> 
> > Goose said:
> ...


...and he's miles and miles away from Atlanta.

Owner Blank looked like a zombie during the press conference today. His season hasn't even started and it's already over. And he knows Michael Vick won't ever play another down for the Falcons.

He's probably hoping for a conviction since it will free him of the huge salary owed to Mr. Vick.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

The indictment is for a conspiracy. He's dead meat since owning the property on which the offense occurred constitutes a conspiracy I believe.

Eric


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Now its getting serious...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2942391


/Paul


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

I just happened to turn on the tube yesterday and the channel was on three sports commentators discussing events in football.

Their idea was that Michael Vick is right now a PR nightmare BUT if just lays low for 3-4 months, everything will be alright with his career and people will forget about this little problem.

I hope that they are wrong...thugs are thugs...


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

SueLab said:


> I just happened to turn on the tube yesterday and the channel was on three sports commentators discussing events in football.
> 
> Their idea was that Michael Vick is right now a PR nightmare BUT if just lays low for 3-4 months, everything will be alright with his career and people will forget about this little problem.
> 
> I hope that they are wrong...thugs are thugs...


In three to four months I would think he will still be in the middle of this. Even if his trail takes a while to get started no team will want to touch him because they will not know what is going to happen down the road. He is done as a Falcon and for the most part as a starting QB in the NFL. If convicted he will not play again period.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> He is done as a Falcon and for the most part as a starting QB in the NFL. If convicted he will not play again period.


noted NFL pundit Peter King predicted on KTCK in Dallas this morning that he would eventually be released by the Falcons.

A very good article from Associated Press was in the Sunday Dallas Morning news detailing all of his missteps and how he he has been protected and the incidents glossed over and the victims bought off. His two primary associates are convicted felons.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Goose said:


> retrevrman said:
> 
> 
> > EdA said:
> ...


I hate to say it because I dislike our inter-divisional foe but, this is the best thing that could have happened to the Falcons in regards to wins/loses!

Vick is the most over-rated QB in the league. He may sell a lot of sneakers to the inner-city kids but, when it comes to playing winning QB, a team can't win big when the QB thinks about running the ball himself first and passing or handing off to a RB second. 

As a Saints and Colts fan, we are gonna miss Vick wearing that Dirty Bird uniform! 

Hey, it is almost August! Anyone want to start an NFL thread? :twisted:


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> I hate to say it because I dislike our inter-divisional foe but, this is the best thing that could have happened to the Falcons in regards to wins/loses!:


too bad Jimmy Mora lost his job


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## Hew (Jan 7, 2003)

Vick will plea bargain to avoid a trial, get probation and a huge fine (including loss of his property), be suspended for the first eight games of the season by the NFL, and start for the Falcons for the last eight. 



> this is the best thing that could have happened to the Falcons in regards to wins/loses!
> 
> and
> 
> Vick is the most over-rated QB in the league. He may sell a lot of sneakers to the inner-city kids but, when it comes to playing winning QB, a team can't win big when the QB thinks about running the ball himself first and passing or handing off to a RB second.


It's a good thing that RTF doesn't have a substance abuse/monitoring policy in place. :wink:


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Mr Booty said:


> Hey, it is almost August! Anyone want to start an NFL thread? :twisted:


Expectations must be running high in the Crescent City, while listening to Brand X sports talk last night there were interveiwing some dude with a serious NO accent who said among other things that if Drew Brees stayed healthy the Saints would play in the NFC championship game and continued on to compare the Aints to the Colts :shock:


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

EdA said:


> Mr Booty said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, it is almost August! Anyone want to start an NFL thread? :twisted:
> ...


We may want to take this to the NFL thread but...........

Sean Payton spent the off-season beefing up an already beefy Offense. His philosphy being, if we can consistantly score over 42 points per game, I'll get a huge bonus! :wink: And, they did bring in some veteran D-men as well as draft picks. However, don't forget that in this years's NFL Draft, he selected a big, fast, rangy proven WR from Tennesee in the 1st round then went for the starting RB from Ohio State to complement Da Deuse and Reggie B.


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

Easy there Dr Ed. what you are doing is "Profiling" and we all know that PROFILING IS WRONG!!! :wink: The natives do have a funny way of butchering the kings english down here in sout la.


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

I just read this morning Reebok and Nike canceled their business relations with Vick.


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

Losthwy said:


> I just read this morning Reebok and Nike canceled their business relations with Vick.


The noose continues to tighten around Mr. Vick's neck. Yesterday one of the co-conspirators named in the indictment cut a deal with the Feds and will be singing to them on Monday morning. And you know this bird has the goods on Vick.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Yesterday one of the co-conspirators named in the indictment cut a deal with the Feds and will be singing to them on Monday morning. And you know this bird has the goods on Vick.[/quote]

Now *thats* what I was hoping to hear.


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

On Richmond TV this AM, black folks were protesting in Newport News last night, Vicks home town, & mine too for that matter, about convicting him before due process. This was AFTER one of his "boys" turned states evidence.
There was not a white face in the crowd on the TV news shot.


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

The Chicago Sun Times said he has 5 of the nations top lawyers defending him - people get away with an awful lot when they have lots of money. 

Do the black folks really think that we would react differently if it was a white person who did this? Are are they just looking for an excuse to protest?


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Call me a bigot. Call me a racist. But I am awfully tired of African Americans using the race card as an excuse for poor behavior. I have to think the responsible law abiding African Americans don't like it either.


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

lab-a-holic said:


> The Chicago Sun Times said he has 5 of the nations top lawyers defending him - people get away with an awful lot when they have lots of money.
> 
> Do the black folks really think that we would react differently if it was a white person who did this? Are are they just looking for an excuse to protest?


Remember the lawyer who said, "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit." Nobody thought Simpson would walk free except his lawyers and he had some good ones.

I'm sure Vick's attorneys will take their chances with Atlanta's jury pool and fight any change of venue. Nothing like having several Vick homers on the jury just like O.J. did.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

lablover said:


> There was not a white face in the crowd on the TV news shot.


Which does not mean that the African American community is unanimous in it's support of Michael Vick, perhaps they are in support of due process for Michael Vick while still being appalled at the concept of "sport" consisting of a venue of dogs killing dogs.


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

I was listening to a friend of mine on the radio the other day - he is chielf cruelty investigator for the Anti-Cruelty society - the said that 38% of the kids in Chicago Schools have attended dog fights - this is kids between 3rd and 8th grade - not even hgih school kids - this is pretty sad - dog fighting is pretty wide spread in good communities as well as bad ones. 

He was also saying that the reason they kill their dogs in such a cruel way is because they are sending people the message that this is what happens to losers. They think that if they have a dog who is a winner that it makes them winners - and people will look up to them - which I guess in those circles they probably do. Pretty pathetic way of looking at things - but this is the way the kids grow up thinking - which makes them pretty menacing members of society.


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## sueley (Dec 23, 2003)

Frank Deford comments - in typically flowery and dense sportswriter fashion - on Michale Vick, presumption of innocence and animal cruelty as sport. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12568999


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## Joe S. (Jan 8, 2003)

EdA said:


> I am puzzled that some fans and commentators are trying to turn Vick's troubles into a racial issue. :?
> 
> There have been several calls to the local D/FW sports talk station essentially saying that the public outrage is because Vick is African American, if he were white the backlash would be significantly less.
> 
> ...


"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." - American Philosopher Paul Simon

August Recess Regards,

Joe S.


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

(never mentioning the fact that Bad Newz Kennel is on property owned by Michael Vick :?[/quote]

Nor did he mention the fact that when Michael Vick was interviewed - just before being drafted - he was asked what were some of the thing he most wanted to do after being drafted - Vick's answer: Start a kennel.


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## 7blackdogs (Oct 21, 2004)

And it keeps on coming.....more of Vick's "partners" are stepping up....
http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-08-13-0218.html


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Once I said that Mike Vick should be considered innocent until proven guilty -- but with everybody getting in line to "plead" out it's certainly not looking very good for Mr. Vick -- and if he is in fact involved in any way with this dog fighting ring and the deaths of dogs (which it sure is looking more as being the case) then I hope he has the book thrown at him -- and gets locked up with a big very rabid pit bull


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## Goose (Oct 7, 2003)

ducksoup said:


> Once I said that Mike Vick should be considered innocent until proven guilty -- but with everybody getting in line to "plead" out it's certainly not looking very good for Mr. Vick -- and if he is in fact involved in any way with this dog fighting ring and the deaths of dogs (which it sure is looking more as being the case) then I hope he has the book thrown at him -- and gets locked up with a big very rabid pit bull


I didn't expect Vick to land in prison but it certainly looks like a possibility now. 

And I also thought he'd be playing football again but the gambling charges might be all the NFL needs to ban him for life.


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)




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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

http://sports.aol.com/nfl/story/_a/documents-say-vick-helped-kill-dogs/20070816084509990001


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vickco-defendants&prov=ap&type=lgns


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

His grief is only just beginning.........and it is of his own making.

What goes around comes around regards,

kg


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## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

The indictments can be seen here:

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news/michael_vick.html

With my limited knowledge of the law, first in mind, Vick is toast!!


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## lab-a-holic (Sep 18, 2006)

I just heard a warning on the radio - this is for people who tie their dogs up outside a business to run inside and grab a cut of coffee or something - there are a lot of dogs stolen this way - what these people do: they tape the mouth shut AND break the dogs hip - then they throw it in the ring with a pit bull and let the pit bull go at it. I knew about taping the mouth shut - I did not know about breaking the hip.


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