# 2008 High Point Derby Dog



## RoosterHunter (Nov 26, 2008)

*What Happened to the Thread about who's who in the running for the 2008 High Point Derby Dog................Is it Pink or Is it Punch?

Inquiry Minds Want to Know.*


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

Too early to tell...

Still have 2 starts to Go. Pink's sister Karma is waiting for Punch to come to Eufaula...Pink's other sister Stella is waiting for Punch to show Up in Boston Ga....and Pink is waiting in Oklahoma. 

Then It is off to Texas for the final meeting. Kinda like the Derby National this year. Kinda exciting watching from the wings.

Gar


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Lpgar said:


> Too early to tell...
> 
> Still have 2 starts to Go. Pink's sister Karma is waiting for Punch to come to Eufaula...Pink's other sister Stella is waiting for Punch to show Up in Boston Ga....and Pink is waiting in Oklahoma.
> 
> ...


Aren't they both entered in S. OK this coming weekend?

https://www.entryexpress.net/loggedin/viewentries.aspx?eid=2875

SM


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

Could we have a "blog" or something at these last few trials? Things are slow now that winter has set in. Snow and 15 degrees at 6 a.m. today.


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## RoosterHunter (Nov 26, 2008)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Aren't they both entered in S. OK this coming weekend?
> 
> https://www.entryexpress.net/loggedin/viewentries.aspx?eid=2875
> 
> SM


They are both entered in S. Ok and they are also both entered in South Louisiana, Norco LA Derby. this weekend.


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

Punch is entered in 3 derbies this Saturday.....Eufuala...North Florida and Oklahoma.


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Lpgar said:


> Punch is entered in 3 derbies this Saturday.....Eufuala...North Florida and Oklahoma.



Make that 4 derbies this weekend. He's entered at Louisiana trial as well on RFTEntry.com. Where oh where will Punch show up ?


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Is this sort of like "Where's Waldo"?


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

2tall said:


> Is this sort of like "Where's Waldo"?


Thinking the same !


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

I don't understand why the dog is entered in so many trials? 

I would get it if it was one on Friday and one on Saturday, but why play this kind of game?


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## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Because the whole goal is to win as many points as possible. Times entered is not that important. Even less important are entry fees lost. The handler's business model has worked well for him.


John


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

But you can't win points in two trials on the same day. You can't be in two places at the same time, so why enter 2,3, or 4 trials that are held on the same day??
It doesn't make sense to me to throw away money like that either. In today's economy, how can anyone afford to use that kind of "business model"? 
And why the heck is a "business model" coming up in a derby competition anyway? Is the guy a pro?


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

Wiredlabz said:


> But you can't win points in two trials on the same day. You can't be in two places at the same time, so why enter 2,3, or 4 trials that are held on the same day??
> It doesn't make sense to me to throw away money like that either. In today's economy, how can anyone afford to use that kind of "business model"?
> And why the heck is a "business model" coming up in a derby competition anyway? Is the guy a pro?



Well, think about it this way. If you have 4 trials to choose from you'll be able to go where your dog will do best. I'm not sure what he bases it off of, but I'm sure it involves NOT going where some of the VERY GOOD derby dogs are. Weather may play a role, terrain, judges. Who knows all the stuff. I know if I was looking for a win, I'd go where dogs like Pink, Punch, Willie, etc etc weren't! Just my view at this. As much as we'd like to see the two go head to head for the next 2 trials, he really would be stupid to do that.


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

mr hillman in yourbest intrest you need to show up at a t the trial that pink is the odds are even go some where else and get punked by a bad bird i hope you are smart enough to go heads up but as i understand it at all costs


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Wiredlabz said:


> But you can't win points in two trials on the same day. You can't be in two places at the same time, so why enter 2,3, or 4 trials that are held on the same day??
> It doesn't make sense to me to throw away money like that either. In today's economy, how can anyone afford to use that kind of "business model"?
> And why the heck is a "business model" coming up in a derby competition anyway? Is the guy a pro?


Yep, big business and contrary to what you are being told on the news every .05sec there is still money floating around out there.
This is a business strategy pure and simple.


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

No win is sweeter as when a highpoint dog flies into the trial location to pick up another win, but ends up leaving without the win. Your dog was the winner.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2008)

Wiredlabz said:


> And why the heck is a "business model" coming up in a derby competition anyway?


Because a high point derby dog can command close to a six figure selling price.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Richard Halstead said:


> No win is sweeter as when a highpoint dog flies into the trial location to pick up another win, but ends up leaving without the win.
> 
> How true. Beating the Derby leader(s) can happen. And how sweet it is when the pup is 100% amateur trained and handled.
> 
> ...


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> Those once in a lifetime pups... well, they are once in a lifetime. Sometimes the amateur just happens to pick the pup out of the litter that is one.


I dunno Hellen. Some people seem to have several lifetimes as they get one good dog after another.... Hillman.

The rest of us are more mortal.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Howard N said:


> I dunno Hellen. Some people seem to have several lifetimes as they get one good dog after another.... Hillman.
> 
> The rest of us are more mortal.


Yes, Howard, you are right. The amateurs who are mere mortals "sometimes" get the dog of a lifetime. Hillman and a few others do seem to get more than their share. 

Since Ken Jackson picked a male from our Saber-Ruby litter born on Sept 2 (we combined Patton and Carbon with the breeding), I am hoping Ole's got another Auggie. Time and excellent training will tell. 

And since we kept a female, I hope we got the Auggie-ette.


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Howard,
I have been meaning to ask for a long time. Who is the handsome dog in your avatar?


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

helencalif said:


> Howard,
> I have been meaning to ask for a long time. Who is the handsome dog in your avatar?


Uh oh.. I'm not sure she would like being called handsome!


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Howard,

Who is the BEAUTIFUL dog in your avatar? (Is that OK, Jeff?)

PS - I just switched avatars. Don wearing his Natl Amateur number with Ruby has been replaced with a photo of Ruby and her young son "Joe" who is now 12 weeks old. 

Joe is looking for a serious field trialer home -- but NOT in California. Joe needs to go to some other area in the country to run Derbies.


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## rboudet (Jun 29, 2004)

I heard a rumor today (hope its not just that) that they will all be in S. LA come this Saturday. I sure hope its true, it will be fun to watch.


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

JeffLusk said:


> Well, think about it this way. If you have 4 trials to choose from you'll be able to go where your dog will do best. I'm not sure what he bases it off of, but I'm sure it involves NOT going where some of the VERY GOOD derby dogs are. Weather may play a role, terrain, judges. Who knows all the stuff. I know if I was looking for a win, I'd go where dogs like Pink, Punch, Willie, etc etc weren't! Just my view at this. As much as we'd like to see the two go head to head for the next 2 trials, he really would be stupid to do that.


Well, then he has the top Accumulated Points dog, not the top derby dog. I would only want to beat the best to BE the best, not avoid them like the plague. 
I would think that people spending that much money would realize that they are buying a "strategic" dog, which may not be the best marking dog. Would you want to have a dog who's previous owner/handler put them in a weak field in order to win and get points? How does the future bode for such a dog in the All Age? Or has this been done many times before and those dogs have succeeded after all?
I'm surprised, really, after seeing as much testasterone as there is in this sport that they aren't going head to head on purpose EVERY weekend! ;-)


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2008)

Wiredlabz said:


> How does the future bode for such a dog in the All Age? Or has this been done many times before and those dogs have succeeded after all?


NAFC Cutter was high point derby dog, previously owned by Bill Hillman. He has done _OK_ as an all-age dog. 

You'd have to ask the owner of FC AFC Banner, another one of Hillman's high point derby dogs, if she thinks his being top Purina Open dog is good enough for her.

;-)


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## Jason E. (Sep 9, 2004)

Didnt hillman have Cappy as a high point derby dog also ? Now placing in AA stakes.


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

that's what i was asking about. I'm not familiar with him or his history. just wanted to know.

my response was also a comment to Jeff's statement about "wanting" to avoid the top dogs. not necessarily that Hillman is doing that. I don't know him or what his plans are. just seems odd to me, that's all.


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Wiredlabz said:


> that's what i was asking about. I'm not familiar with him or his history. just wanted to know.
> 
> my response was also a comment to Jeff's statement about "wanting" to avoid the top dogs. not necessarily that Hillman is doing that. I don't know him or what his plans are. just seems odd to me, that's all.


last 10 years of top derby dogs have produced fc afc nafc high point open, high point amateur, etc.... all have succeeded


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

helencalif said:


> Howard,
> I have been meaning to ask for a long time. Who is the handsome dog in your avatar?


That's my handsome bitch Bam, FC/AFC Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog.

She doesn't much care if you call her handsome or beautiful just so long as you don't call her late for dinner. 

The pic was taken at night in a campground near Fairbanks, AK with the sun getting low on the horizon. She was laying in the sun, next to the tent looking out over the camp and the neighbor's camp. I thought it would make a nice picture so I took it. If it wasn't for the sawdust they put down for the tentsites dusting her, it would be a great picture IMO. As it is, it's my favorite picture of Bam. The next day she finished the Amateur in 2nd place earning her AFC.


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

OK....where are all the Airport Spy's????

Where did Punch and Pink go?

Karma want's to know if Punch is heading her way tomorrow.


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> NAFC Cutter was high point derby dog, previously owned by Bill Hillman. He has done _OK_ as an all-age dog.
> 
> You'd have to ask the owner of FC AFC Banner, another one of Hillman's high point derby dogs, if she thinks his being top Purina Open dog is good enough for her.
> 
> ;-)


Can you name me the last 5 or 6 Derby Champions without looking them up in your almanac? Or how many Derby Champions go on to never make their FC/AFC?


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

Wiredlabz said:


> > I would think that people spending that much money would realize that they are buying a "strategic" dog, which may not be the best marking dog. Would you want to have a dog who's previous owner/handler put them in a weak field in order to win and get points?
> 
> 
> This kind of stuff has been going on for years. I judged a derby once when one of the so called derby hot shot's hunted a bird in the third series got called back and didn't show up for the forth series. We stoped the trial to find out what had happened and we were told they left to go to McCall to run the derby there. It started on Sat.
> ...


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

Damn

Just got a not....Karma came into season yesterday.....**** _edited by Moderator_..


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

Proving once again that dogs have their priorities straight. 

This year, my derby dog started on fire with five ribbons in five outings. Just as the late summer season started, she cut her leg in training and was out for two weeks. She then went into heat. When she came out of heat she had a false pregnancy and for five weeks would go under the truck and dig a nest as soon as she was let out. Unfortunately she would bury her brains in the hole before she came out to run. Finally began to put things back together and got a third only to injure her foot on the way back after the trial -- out for five more weeks. I finally ran her in the last trial of the season after she had not trained for five weeks and she still got a JAM. Great dog, very bad luck. 

Clearly the high point dogs have to have both talent and luck. I don't mind the gamesmanship involved in trying to run up the points. There is no way any of the high point contenders got there by cherry picking their competition. I ran against Punch in Maryland with a seriously tough field and he won but had to fight every step of the way. I've run against Jim Pickering's dog Willie who is also seriously talented. Wherever Punch and Pink run they will certainly find some dogs that have the talent to win given a little bit of luck. It's nice to have the season come down to such a photo finish.


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## scott spalding (Aug 27, 2005)

Pink is in Oklahoma and I was Told that Punch will be in Norco. Best of luck to both dogs this weekend. Last friday we were told we would meet up in Ok this weekend but that changed on Tuesday. I guess there was some crossed up communication.
________
Curvy live


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

scott spalding said:


> Pink is in Oklahoma and I was Told that Punch will be in Norco. Best of luck to both dogs this weekend. Last friday we were told we would meet up in Ok this weekend but that changed on Tuesday. I guess there was some crossed up communication.


Hey Scott,

I called you about Drake on Wednesday. Is he home?

WRL


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2008)

Barry said:


> Can you name me the last 5 or 6 Derby Champions without looking them up in your almanac? Or how many Derby Champions go on to never make their FC/AFC?


a) Yes.
b) No. Why do you ask?


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

Barry said:


> Can you name me the last 5 or 6 Derby Champions without looking them up in your almanac? Or how many Derby Champions go on to never make their FC/AFC?


i think all afc fc nfc nafc maybe 4 of 5 with out looking up
when they start good they usally end up pretty good 
USALLY


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## blkdgtrnr (Sep 15, 2008)

pyzon said:


> i think all afc fc nfc nafc maybe 4 of 5 with out looking up
> when they start good they usally end up pretty good
> USALLY


it would be fair to say that most have attained a field title.
a minority however have been quite mediocre in the open stake, and a number of them have received fc at a rather late age


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> a) Yes.
> b) No. Why do you ask?


A. Most cannot.

B. I found it condescending to tell another person to ask another if it was worth it, seeing as how it only seems to be important to those who are interested parties. 

A. It is really small in the grand schem of things. 

B.To some it is a business. That's where the rub is.

As far as most of us we need the almanac.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2008)

Barry said:


> B. I found it condescending to tell another person to ask another if it was worth it, seeing as how it only seems to be important to those who are interested parties.


You must have misread something. Nowhere did I ask anything pertaining to worth. 

I was responding to Karen's inquiry about what happens to Hillman's high point derby dogs and if they find success post-derby. I was being facetious about asking whether Banner being High Point Open dog was good enough for Kippy. I'm sure it didn't bother her too much. ;-) <----Note the ";-)"


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> > You must have misread something. Nowhere did I ask anything pertaining to worth.
> 
> 
> Post #17 you also stated that a high point derby dog could command six figures.
> ...


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

We all have an opinion but until each of us has owned a Pink, Punch, Banner, Dusty, Cutter, Ripple and so on, we cannot guarantee we would not do the same. While all age titles may be the goal for most, making great derby dogs obviously has it's place in the game as well. Just look at how much attention this run for the roses has received.


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

JKL said:


> We all have an opinion but until each of us has owned a Pink, Punch, Banner, Dusty, Cutter, Ripple and so on, we cannot guarantee we would not do the same. While all age titles may be the goal for most,
> 
> 
> > making great derby dogs obviously has it's place in the game
> ...


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

This topic comes up with a fair degree of regularity along with the statement that many top derby dogs fade into obscurity because their owners somehow lost sight of the real objective. I thought this was a pretty good response from Lyle Harne in last year's thread:



Lyle Harne said:


> *Steve wrote:*
> 
> This topic has gotten a lot of discussion. Here's the top 25 for this decade. I would say more excellent All Age careers than not.
> 
> ...


On the notion that money has corrupted the process, I think that may only apply to the very top honors. Some recent high point derby dogs have sold for very big bucks. However, for most I suspect that the sales value of a derby dog with 20 points would be unlikely to cover all the costs of purchasing, training, campaigning, and caring for the dog prior to sale. For almost all of us, this sport goes into our expense budget, not our income.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Barry said:


> JKL said:
> 
> 
> > We all have an opinion but until each of us has owned a Pink, Punch, Banner, Dusty, Cutter, Ripple and so on, we cannot guarantee we would not do the same. While all age titles may be the goal for most,
> ...


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

> On the notion that money has corrupted the process, I think that may only apply to the very top honors.


It has had a trickle down effect.



> Some recent high point derby dogs have sold for very big bucks. However, for most I suspect that the sales value of a derby dog with 20 points would be unlikely to cover all the costs of purchasing, training, campaigning, and caring for the dog prior to sale.


I've trained a few youg dogs and I don't believe I ever had $20,000 into them in two years.



> For almost all of us, this sport goes into our expense budget, not our income.[/QUOTE
> 
> I would agree with you. I dought that the everyday Joe the plumber spends that kind of money either training or paying a pro for such services.
> 
> ...


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Barry said:
> 
> 
> > So Barry is someone’s goal is to have the High Point derby dog what difference does it make to you? So what if most derby champions don’t go on to becomes FCs or AFCs? So what is some trainers bread and butter is derby dogs? You act as though the word is going to spin off is freaking axis or something. As soon as FC/AFC start doing something constructive in the world (i.e. curing cancer, paying taxes, creating a better mouse trap) I would suggest you just let people play the game the way the want to and be done with it. Everyone turns the prism in the light until it makes colors they find appealing.
> ...


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## Bobby Lindsay (Jan 10, 2004)

Barry said:


> The number of points has a lot to do with the sale price that a pro, dog jockey or interested Amateur uses as a starting point when selling a dog. Normally the asking price is in the neighborhood of $1000 a point for starters and goes up very fast after that. This can be very lucrative don't you think?


GOOD for them! 

Good Luck to Mike and Pink, And good luck to Bill and Punch. I Applaud your efforts and acomplishments. Way to go both owners and trainers and handlers.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Barry said:


> 367733 said:
> 
> 
> > Post #17 you also stated that a high point derby dog could command six figures.
> ...


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

field trial is about competition and competition brings you to whose on top
If I had a really great little marking dog able to run derbies you can bet your pants I would be at every trial I could run. I would try to rack up all the points I could. I am in Niland now trying to get more amateur points. Fly is in the top 10 amateur dogs this year and this is a personal accomplishment for me. You bet I will be competing. Next year might not be as good. After all these are just dogs


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

If a young dog runs derbies and never wins ONE, but has Open and Am placements and Jams before it is two ...........to your way of thinking, how does this dog compair to a dog with a lot of Derby points but no AA placements or jams.

Derby Shermeby regards

john


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

john fallon said:


> If a young dog runs derbies and never wins ONE, but has Open and Am placements and Jams before it is two ...........to your way of thinking, how does this dog compair to a dog with a lot of Derby points but no AA placements or jams.
> 
> Derby Shermeby regards
> 
> john


That's a ridiculous hypothetical. Who was the last dog to do that .... Chavez?


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

I don't compare. I enjoy whatever that dog can do. I go the distance in whatever time of that dogs life he excels. There is competition at all levels and competition is what this game was founded on.


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Barry said:
> 
> 
> > Not bashing anyone to make a point at all…it is just without the AKC, Purina, other sponsors there wouldn’t be dog games the way you know them. It could be said weekend warriors are having fun off the backs of sponsors and the AKC…but I think they would be happy to know their dollars were being used well.
> ...


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

You don't of any dogs while under 2 YO that ever had AA placements ?


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## cotts135 (Aug 5, 2008)

I am kind of new to this so if someone could tell me the full names of Pink and Punch it would be appreciated. I tried looking them up on Entry Express but couldn't find them. Thanks


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

trulines walla walla sweet


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

Punch = Coolwater's Knockout










Here's one with Bill Hillman:


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

So does anybody know who showed up where and how they did?


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

2tall said:


> So does anybody know who showed up where and how they did?


 Check out the info on the Events forum: 

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33537

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33529


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

Am I imagining or wasn't there a post by blkdgtrnr practically congratulating Bill & Punch on finishing up as high point derby dog. Wonder what happened to it? Huh...


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> Am I imagining or wasn't there a post by blkdgtrnr practically congratulating Bill & Punch on finishing up as high point derby dog. Wonder what happened to it? Huh...


Its going to come down to the last trial!!! Even though pink didn't get to run this weekend. Punch has a 4 point lead now???


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

JeffLusk said:


> Its going to come down to the last trial!!! Even though pink didn't get to run this weekend. Punch has a 4 point lead now???


1 point going in. How did it become 4 if Will and Willie took first and second at Norco? I didn't see if Punch took third. If he did it's 3 points difference now. Either way it comes down to next weekend assuming that Pink can run. Hopefully she can.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

Punch got a JAM.


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

YardleyLabs said:


> 1 point going in. How did it become 4 if Will and Willie took first and second at Norco? I didn't see if Punch took third. If he did it's 3 points difference now. Either way it comes down to next weekend assuming that Pink can run. Hopefully she can.



Oops. I thought he took 2nd. So it's still 1 pt difference. 
This is gonna be good.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

Jeff,

We feel your pain. There's a desktop calculator on sale at Office Depot that we're all going to chip in and get you for Christmas. :razz:


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

john fallon said:


> You don't of any dogs while under 2 YO that ever had AA placements ?


That wasn't your scenario ... your scenario was running derbies and not winning, but having all age points before 2. That's pretty rare.


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## lbrdrtrnr (Jun 16, 2008)

Melanie Foster said:


> Am I imagining or wasn't there a post by blkdgtrnr practically congratulating Bill & Punch on finishing up as high point derby dog. Wonder what happened to it? Huh...


are we expecting pink to be on drugs to shorten heat cycle and compete ??

has not bill -and punch - won another title ?

and deserved congratulations ?


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## scott spalding (Aug 27, 2005)

Just wondering how anyone could know at what stage in her cycle pink was on Saturday.
________
Vapir no2 portable vaporizer review


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

Oops, wrong RTF name. Sorry blkdgtrnr. Super:  Thanks lbrdrtrnr for clearing that up.

I love it though...as if Pink did go "on drugs" to win, like that would be a bad thing? 

Nothing in the rules against it.


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

scott spalding said:


> Just wondering how anyone could know at what stage in her cycle pink was on Saturday.


Scott,

I tried to be very careful in my comment. I just hope she can run but I figured you would be the best source of information on whether she will be able to or not and that you might not know until next Saturday morning.;-) I'm just sorry that Pink never ran in my region so that I could have photographed her in action. Do you have any photos you can post?


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

scott spalding said:


> Just wondering how anyone could know at what stage in her cycle pink was on Saturday.


No one but you and her trainer knows, Scott.


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

scott spalding said:


> Just wondering how anyone could know at what stage in her cycle pink was on Saturday.


It would certainly appear that Pink would just be starting her cycle since she was entered and then had to scratch due to being in heat. The people training with Pink & Gunzer could certainly attest to her just coming into heat.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.


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## jgrammer (Jun 23, 2008)

So once again the females get shafted. I am sure most of these dogs are trained around bitches in heat...any pros truck will have them. And so why can't they be expected to work regardless. Train, don't complain. And yes, I realize the girls may be a bit off while in heat, but let them at least try! Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. 

Jean


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## scott spalding (Aug 27, 2005)

We scratched Pink because she was in heat. She had been in heat for some time and we thought she would be through her heat cycle. The trial closed weeks ago so I am not sure how one could predict weather she would be in or out. Pink has allways trained while in heat and will continue to do so for many years I hope. If Pink is still in heat next weekend we will scratch and congratulations to the new Derby Champion will be in order. If not we all will have a very good time with alot of great dogs in Red River. 


Vicky Trainor said:


> It would certainly appear that Pink would just be starting her cycle since she was entered and then had to scratch due to being in heat. The people training with Pink & Gunther could certainly attest to her just coming into heat.
> 
> Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.


________
Brunette live


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## golden boy 2 (Mar 28, 2005)

Looks like we need a rocket scientist because they can surely count to 21 days and not make us go through 2 weeks of hype and 10 pages of reading this thread and still not know if the dog will be able to run next week. You can't make this crap up...........just saying


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

golden boy 2 said:


> Looks like we need a rocket scientist because they can surely count to 21 days and not make us go through 2 weeks of hype and 10 pages of reading this thread and still not know if the dog will be able to run next week. You can't make this crap up...........just saying


I love the "21 day rule", but in my experience without about 15 females over the years, I've had girls done in two weeks and others that were still flying the flag at three. I use the tissue test for competition but keep my females segregated from all the little boys for at least another week.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Some females seem to have their best trials right after a heat cycle. The best to Pink either way. HPW


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

lbrdrtrnr said:


> are we expecting pink to be on drugs to shorten heat cycle and compete ??
> 
> has not bill -and punch - won another title ?
> 
> and deserved congratulations ?


Is the Red River Derby next weekend over already?????

Time Warp regards,

kg


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## lbrdrtrnr (Jun 16, 2008)

K G said:


> Is the Red River Derby next weekend over already?????
> 
> Time Warp regards,
> 
> kg




karl gunzer has not been training alone, while pink has been in heat.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

lbrdrtrnr said:


> karl gunzer has not been training alone, while pink has been in heat.


What's your point with _that_ comment?

You've already declared a NDC and want Hillman to wear the laurel wreath? Sounds a little premature to me.....'specially with one Derby to go and Punch wrapping up a *greenie* against 13 other starters this weekend....just sayin'....;-)

kg


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## blkdgtrnr (Sep 15, 2008)

K G said:


> What's your point with _that_ comment?
> 
> ....................... You've already declared a NDC ?
> 
> kg


a) his point seems obvious !

b) f.y.i. the a.k.c. banned the title of "NDC" long ago. Now said accomplishment is referred to as 'high point derby dog'


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

blkdgtrnr said:


> a) his point seems obvious !


You acting as his agent or thinking he can't reply on his own?



> b) f.y.i. the a.k.c. banned the title of "NDC" long ago. Now said accomplishment is referred to as 'high point derby dog'


Butcha _knew_ what I meant....what a concept...........and that the "designation" is unrecognized by the AKC should tell you something....;-)

kg


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

K G said:


> You acting as his agent or thinking he can't reply on his own?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really kg, don't you think that he isn't his agent, but rather one and the same poorly disguised anonomous expert??


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

mjh345 said:


> Really kg, don't you think that he isn't his agent, but rather one and the same poorly disguised anonomous expert??


I dunno....those craftily created "handles" really threw me..... 

Not A Nonny Moose regards, ;-)

kg


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## Shawn Oliphant (Dec 23, 2007)

Scott - Regardless of whether Pink is ready to run, you, John and Amie deserve a big hand for what you have accomplished already. I, for one, hope that Pink gets her shot to compete for the honors next weekend.


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

I love it all!! The drama ,the suspense,the ,.........It's "The New Soap Opera" for me.
What???
It's 15 degrees with another 6-14inches of new snow coming tonight
Good Luck to both puppies.
Sue


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## Shawn Oliphant (Dec 23, 2007)

Any news on whether there is a show down this weekend?


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Shawn Oliphant said:


> Any news on whether there is a show down this weekend?


I spoke to Scott earlier in the week and his intention was to be in TX this weekend.

Have not heard about Bill.

WRL


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

lbrdrtrnr said:


> karl gunzer has not been training alone, while pink has been in heat.


lbrdrtrnr,

Please check your email and reply to me.

Thanks,


Chris


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

blkdgtrnr said:


> a) his point seems obvious !
> 
> b) f.y.i. the a.k.c. banned the title of "NDC" long ago. Now said accomplishment is referred to as 'high point derby dog'


blkdgtrnr,

Please check your email and respond to me.

Thanks,

Chris


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

With 36 dogs running, including many of rtf's finest, it should be an exciting weekend. Hopefully we will be kept up to date. Good luck to all.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the head start Pink has on being 2009 High Point Derby Dog. 

January 1st birthday regards,

Melanie


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the head start Pink has on being 2009 High Point Derby Dog.
> 
> January 1st birthday regards,
> 
> Melanie


How does that work?? Any dog born in that year is eligible for High point derby dog that year??


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

JeffLusk said:


> How does that work?? Any dog born in that year is eligible for High point derby dog that year??


Yep, I believe so!!!


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

JeffLusk said:


> How does that work?? Any dog born in that year is eligible for High point derby dog that year??


As well during the year it ages out.

Double whammy regards,

kg


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## Excaliber (Apr 4, 2007)

Melanie Foster said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the head start Pink has on being 2009 High Point Derby Dog.
> 
> January 1st birthday regards,
> 
> Melanie



A one week head start? Pink ran her first Derby in 08 on 2-01-08. Punch ran his first derby on 2-08-08.


The real stat here is that Punch has run 39 derbies and Pink has run 27.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Excaliber said:


> A one week head start? Pink ran her first Derby in 08 on 2-01-08. Punch ran his first derby on 2-08-08.
> 
> 
> The real stat here is that Punch has run 39 derbies and Pink has run 27.


I think you're missing the point; Look at birthdates, not first trial date; Pink was born in 07


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

Scott

Hope all is in order for the weekend and Pink get's to show her stuff. Karma is rooting for Ya'll from Alabama. Wishing I could be in Texas seeing this very exciting event.

Gar


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## Ga Woodrow (Mar 4, 2006)

So help me here. It is possible for Pink to be the high point derby dog in o8 and o9? How cool would that be.


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## Russell Archer (Jul 8, 2004)

Ga Woodrow said:


> So help me here. It is possible for Pink to be the high point derby dog in o8 and o9? How cool would that be.


No. 

If by chance Pink should beat Punch in points for the calander year 2008 she will be the High Point Derby Dog of 2008. If she doesn't beat Punch in total points this year, she will be the leading dog for the 2009 High Point Derby Dog. Can only be High Point Derby Dog once.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Ga Woodrow said:


> So help me here. It is possible for Pink to be the high point derby dog in o8 and o9? How cool would that be.


No. If she is high pt derby dog for 08 she is uneligible for 09.

If she comes in second, then she is eligible for 09.

That's my understanding.

WRL


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