# webshire's honest abe x candlewood's tanks a lot



## Denney (Oct 23, 2007)

I am looking for a breeding that is heavy on webshire's honest abe and candlewood's tanks a lot. Does any one know of any upcoming or started dogs for sale?


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## Ken Archer (Aug 11, 2003)

You might be able to find some AI breedings from Candlewood's Rebel Ridge PDQ, Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow, Lotties Sherman Tank or Lotties St Lucie Merck.


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## Jim Thompson (Feb 25, 2003)

there is a yellow litter due mid march that has both and no lean mac.

Sire is UH HRCH BlueSky's Code Three MH
Dam is HRCH Whispering ponds Golly miss molly

Contact Bob Cox

724-544-1654


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## duke7581 (Jan 17, 2008)

jydog is that thompson dog Cody. If so he's an awesome dog nothing but good news on him.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

Merck is still alive. You can get info through Roger Perry on this forum. He has lots of experience with Merck offspring, too.


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## Dick Jennings (Mar 19, 2007)

Denney,

You might check out www.coolwaterkennels.com. AFC "Ready" is out of Merck. I don't know a lot about this dog, but it looks like he has a solid record and there are pups available. I also like the Abe x Lottie combination,.....as do many! I have an Abe granddaughter that was very easy to train. If you're interested, PM me your phone #, I'd enjoy talking with you about your interest and what you find out. Good luck.

Dick


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

I have a Quick grandson (Maxx is out of Click) -- really like the Abe X Lottie combination -- best of luck in finding a breeding -- you won't be sorry
Just noticed that Mike Beadle has a nice breeding Chopper X Seaside's Hakuna Matata QAA -- she's out of FC AFC Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow -- repeat breeding -- nice pedigree


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## Henry V (Apr 7, 2004)

This is a bit of a diversion from the topic at hand, but this message string provides a great illustration of how the field retriever community has apparently not tried to really maintain any true "lines". Abe was a wonderful producer yet his line after just a generation or two seems destined to fade away like most of the other producers that preceeded him including his fathers. Why is no one out there with the resources trying to maintain some of these lines? Seems like there should be some linebred Lottie dogs too despite the known issues.

If you know of any dogs linebred on Abe let's hear about them. Same with Harley. Any linebred Harley dogs where he is at least a grandfather or great-grandfather on top and bottom?


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Be careful what you wish for.....

Do your homeowrk.....

Angie


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## duke7581 (Jan 17, 2008)

my new pup has harley in top and bottom. both great grandads


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Angie B said:


> Be careful what you wish for.....
> 
> Do your homeowrk.....
> 
> Angie


Everyone and their mother knows Lottie carried CNM. The testing makes that less of an issue when making breeding decisions. Linebreeding is a valuable tool that very few labrador breeders use, for whatever reason.


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## Henry V (Apr 7, 2004)

duke7581 said:


> my new pup has harley in top and bottom. both great grandads


Is Harley the great grandad of the pup or of the parents? Is lean mac on both sides too? Just curious.



> Be careful what you wish for


Is a 40% incidence of the EIC gene in the field labrador population what everyone wished for??? If so, then mission accomplished and stay the course.

What I wish for is that a few folks that are really into breeding field labradors would try to maintain some real lines of dogs out there. I am not really aware of any of these efforts if there are any. Does anyone know of anyone trying to maintain any really lines? Harley and Abe are a great example. I have no doubt that their lines will be waterered down and lost rjust like great sires of the past. In other dog breeds and in other animals (dairy cattle, horses, etc) this would not happen to the great sires and dams. Their lines would be maintained then there would be classic outcrosses to other lines. This takes time and resources. It just seems a shame that no one has done this in field labradors recently. They used to.

"no Lean Mac' and "no Snake Eyes" regards.


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## duke7581 (Jan 17, 2008)

yea the pup did you get a pup from Clark also


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Maintaining a "line" means having enough homes for all the puppies that as you the breeder deem not suitable to carry on that line. Now if we were breeding livestock animal we would have plenty of outlets for the "culls"....but were not. Doubt you wouild sell many pups when word got out that your breeding practices were taken back 70 years and you were keeping a water bucket by the whelping box. 

A "line" is not a "line" until it breeds true. One dog in a pedigree does not constute a "line". Just had a wonderful conversation with the breeding manager of Decoverly Setters. The selection process for breeding stock for an actual "line" is so far removed from what most retriever people use to select their future stock, it's shocking. 

As a breeder I have more planned breedings and would do if I could do breedings than a sane person should. Have a 3" thick file folder of pedigrees on dogs most people don't know or care about anymore. I also have some frozen semen on some dogs that carry some traits I think are irreplacable. In the current puppy market I find myself with less of an urge to "Refine" what will be the Drakehaven line. 

My ideal world would be 4 deposits in hand and a litter of 6 puppies. 4 to cover the costs of the breeding and 2 for myself. Then give me 10 years and 4 generations and maybe you would START to see some dogs that would produce some traits that were similar enough to be condsidered a line.

JK


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Henry V said:


> This is a bit of a diversion from the topic at hand, but this message string provides a great illustration of how the field retriever community has apparently not tried to really maintain any true "lines". Abe was a wonderful producer yet his line after just a generation or two seems destined to fade away like most of the other producers that preceeded him including his fathers. Why is no one out there with the resources trying to maintain some of these lines? Seems like there should be some linebred Lottie dogs too despite the known issues.
> 
> If you know of any dogs linebred on Abe let's hear about them. Same with Harley. Any linebred Harley dogs where he is at least a grandfather or great-grandfather on top and bottom?


Line bred Harley:

Super High Flyer - NFC AFC Abe's Ebony & Ivory x Candlewood's High Hope
Hope = Harley x Nota (Ziparoo x Lottie)
Abe is his grandfather on top, Harley grandfather on bottom and Lottie great grandmother on bottom

CNM Clear, Hip Good Elbow good, Eyes Cerf'd


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## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

Henry V said:


> If you know of any dogs linebred on Abe let's hear about them. Same with Harley. Any linebred Harley dogs where he is at least a grandfather or great-grandfather on top and bottom?


Otter has Abe x Lottie on top and Abe on the Bottom as well as Sky Watch Radar on both sides.No titles(blame me)worth mentioning.CNM Clear.His hips are good,elbows normal.I haven't checked his eyes or EIC but will even though I don't have any plans to breed him.I've had no health issues yet. He has that on off switch but the "on" gets stuck sometimes.He is a great dog but he is a handful.I think he's better looking than all the labs at Westminster,but that's just me.


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## Hidden Valley (Aug 4, 2003)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Then give me 10 years and 4 generations and maybe you would START to see some dogs that would produce some traits that were similar enough to be condsidered a line.
> 
> JK


It DOES take 8-10 years to reach the goal of a true line breeding program. Most "linebred" dogs are actually bred on a particular line, but are NOT true line bred dogs. Once the goal is reached, it has to be maintained. ONE breeding outside of the "plan" and most is lost. I know of one linbreeding plan that is in the initial stages.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Charles C. said:


> Everyone and their mother knows Lottie carried CNM. The testing makes that less of an issue when making breeding decisions. Linebreeding is a valuable tool that very few labrador breeders use, for whatever reason.


That isn't what I was referring too....

Angie


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Illinois Bob said:


> Otter has Abe x Lottie on top and Abe on the Bottom as well as Sky Watch Radar on both sides.No titles(blame me)worth mentioning.CNM Clear.His hips are good,elbows normal.I haven't checked his eyes or EIC but will even though I don't have any plans to breed him.I've had no health issues yet. He has that on off switch but the "on" gets stuck sometimes.He is a great dog but he is a handful.I think he's better looking than all the labs at Westminster,but that's just me.


I'm with Illinois Bob -- my Maxx is out of Click (sired by Quick who was out of Abe and Lottie) and Tess (a Lean Mac bitch) -- with Sky Watch Radar on both sides -- and back to Itchin To Go several times (although further back) -- I hope to linebreed this type of bloodline one day (I'll be looking for the right female one day soon) -- and I think Maxx who can be a handful too (on switch can get stuck sometimes) is better looking than those dogs at Westminister


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## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

Angie B said:


> That isn't what I was referring too....
> 
> Angie


What were you refering to? Can you say?


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Sure,,,, They are extremely talented. I've trained many of this combination. AWESOME markers with good lines. Slow to mature, even the females. Have a tendency to be noisey. Somewhat independent and watch your water work. They have a tendency to be a tad cheaty. Did I say Noisey!!

They all are drop dead gorgeous. With a few pounds they could go in the show ring....Hahaha.

Angie


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## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

Angie B said:


> Sure,,,, They are extremely talented. I've trained many of this combination. AWESOME markers with good lines. Slow to mature, even the females. Have a tendency to be noisey. Somewhat independent and watch your water work. They have a tendency to be a tad cheaty. Did I say Noisey!!
> 
> They all are drop dead gorgeous. With a few pounds they could go in the show ring....Hahaha.
> 
> Angie


 
Everything I wanted to hear.You could run for President Angie.


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## Henry V (Apr 7, 2004)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> Maintaining a "line" means having enough homes for all the puppies that as you the breeder deem not suitable to carry on that line. ...............Then give me 10 years and 4 generations and maybe you would START to see some dogs that would produce some traits that were similar enough to be condsidered a line.
> JK


Great post. I never said this would be easy. In fact, your post only touches on the major complications. You would need not only need to cull unsatisfactory dogs from your breeding program but you would also have to get all pups placed in serious homes to evaluate their characteristics and then only breed the best. It would take a lot of time, planning, and effort. 

This has been done in other breeds because knowledgeable breeders with the resources took the initiative to get this done. Serious linebreeding is also the foundation for livestock because it works and has greatly improve measureable performance characteristics.

It just seems odd that no one has really done this with field labradors. Right now there is a chance to produce a "Lean Mac' line. Some folks seem to be linebreeding on him but I am also seeing the "no lean mac" ads too. It remains to be seen whether his line will truely be maintained 10 years from now or if he will be only seen in pedigrees as a single great-great-grandfather like most of the great performers and producers before him.


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## Stormsaheadkennels (Jan 20, 2008)

Denney,
I have a litter now with "Abe" on the topside, this a repeat breeding and we have been VERY pleased with the pups. Check out my puppy ad on the forum of "Repeat breeding, MH xMH", By Storms Ahead Kennel. Hope to hear from you.
Thank you,
Janet


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## Denney (Oct 23, 2007)

Thanks for all the replys and PMs. They have been very helpful.

What do you think of this breeding? Would this be considered a Harley linebreeding?

Cosmo's Concerto Charlie x Ramblin Man bitch


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Denney said:


> What do you think of this breeding? Would this be considered a Harley linebreeding?
> 
> Cosmo's Concerto Charlie x Ramblin Man bitch


Harley is certainly on both sides of pedigree -- maybe a bit far back to make much impact so "indirect"/"lite" linebreeding (now there's a new concept or phrases that might get some RTFers going!!!!!)


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## Henry V (Apr 7, 2004)

> What do you think of this breeding? Would this be considered a Harley linebreeding?
> 
> Cosmo's Concerto Charlie x Ramblin Man bitch


I would consider it a very moderate linebreeding on Harley. The pup would be 1/8 Harley from the sire and 1/8 Harley from the dam for a total of 1/4 Harley. This is similar to having Harley as a grandparent on one side. 
Take a bitch from this litter and breed her to The Boss and you end up with a pup that is 3/8 Harley and the start of a line. 
Then breed back to Cosmo and you are at 7/16 Harley the continuation of a line that could then be outcrossed with a linebred Lean Mac dog or tank/lottie dog if there is/was one.


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Herny,

If you did that you'd pull every last hair out !!! They would either go out like a match in a Hurricane or BLOW UP like Dynamite. IMO

There are some breeders who have line bred from certain dogs that do not have near the "personality disorders" as the ones that would be created with that compilation of pedigrees.

Delma would be the one that 1st comes to mind. 7 or 8 Natl. derby champs, 4 or 5 Natl winners, lots of FC's a definate "type" and no off the wall disorders such as EIC, CNM etc.

There is a line that is fading by the wayside and it would behoove some people to take a look at those dogs for their marking, trainability, great TEMPERMENT, and type.
If you know what your looking at you can pick out a Willie, Bluebill, or Spook dog a mile away. They have definate "traits" 

JK


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## JKL (Oct 19, 2007)

Angie B said:


> Sure,,,, They are extremely talented. I've trained many of this combination. AWESOME markers with good lines. Slow to mature, even the females. Have a tendency to be noisey. Somewhat independent and watch your water work. They have a tendency to be a tad cheaty. Did I say Noisey!!
> 
> They all are drop dead gorgeous. With a few pounds they could go in the show ring....Hahaha.
> 
> Angie


None of that describes Fly. Line bred from what I know of line breeding.
Absolute solid and quiet on line. Extremely honest water attitude, almost to a fault and the most cooperative dog I have had. 110% team player.
His one flaw might be too much thinking, can get in the way of his work, kind of a mental pressure cooker sometimes brought on by himself. 
Extremely consistant, 60% completion ratio in the all-age.


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## bruce (May 18, 2004)

I have an untitled Abe Grandson out of a no name meat dog on the bottom who I wouldn't take 10g$ for great in the house, quiet in the kennel, marks like machine and runs a nice blind every now and then. If he had a handler he might even have a tiltle. I currently hope to breed my little girl to an AbexChena pup as one of my mentors once told me "you gotta love those Abe/Harley pups. Yawn now back to my nap ....


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

Hookset said:


> Merck is still alive. You can get info through Roger Perry on this forum. He has lots of experience with Merck offspring, too.


I bred my female (Bo's Shadee Ladee Sadee MH to Merck almost 9 years ago. The litter produced FC/AFC Coolwater's Ice Tiger Sh, AFC Coolwater's Ready To Go, By Hook Or By Crook MH (QAA), Shadee Ladee Katee MH, Lucky Dux Cheese And Quackers MH, and Hunter's Road - Hunter has 3 Open points and needs one more pass for his MH title. One out of the litter was sold as a pet and another died when she was about 6 months old. Ice and Ready are CNM clear. Kate and Hooker and Hunter were not tested. 

Sadee's grandfathers were NFC NAFC Super Tanker on her sires side and FC/AFC Snake Eyes Double Or Nothing on her dam's side. I doubled up on the Super Tanker lines before the test for CNM was available.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

JKL said:


> None of that describes Fly. Line bred from what I know of line breeding.
> Absolute solid and quiet on line. Extremely honest water attitude, almost to a fault and the most cooperative dog I have had. 110% team player.
> His one flaw might be too much thinking, can get in the way of his work, kind of a mental pressure cooker sometimes brought on by himself.
> Extremely consistant, 60% completion ratio in the all-age.


Well they're not all the same....

Angie


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## Criquetpas (Sep 14, 2004)

Take a look at RFTN pg 37 Feb/March 2008 My retired hunt test guy is the sire, National Derby List ,QAA too and his two littermates are FC and FC/AFC . Also,I , co-owned the FC/AFC, amateur trained! His Sire is Abe and his Dam is Criquet (my bitch) out of Tank.
On the bottom half you have Harley and Tank AND they are yellow factored. First litter looks great. They are reasonable .

I think he has three males left. Everything is CMN cleared so all that is debunked , both sire and dam, as the "Urban Legend" continues. 


Send Bob an e-mail and he will send you a pedigree e-mail I am sure. 

Criquet's Noir Ikon X Lady Kosie Rosie


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## John Abbott (Jan 25, 2010)

Henry V said:


> This is a bit of a diversion from the topic at hand, but this message string provides a great illustration of how the field retriever community has apparently not tried to really maintain any true "lines". Abe was a wonderful producer yet his line after just a generation or two seems destined to fade away like most of the other producers that preceeded him including his fathers. Why is no one out there with the resources trying to maintain some of these lines? Seems like there should be some linebred Lottie dogs too despite the known issues.
> 
> If you know of any dogs linebred on Abe let's hear about them. Same with Harley. Any linebred Harley dogs where he is at least a grandfather or great-grandfather on top and bottom?


I had the pleasure of having one of Honest Abes daughters. My best friend and with out a doubt, the best dog I have ever had. Unfortunately, I had to put her down last Monday. 
I have been doing some research and have found that there might be a few decendents of Honest Abe and Peaches & Cream. I will hope to find out more information within the next week. I would love to have another dog that has Honest Abe's blood lines.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Angie B said:


> They all are drop dead gorgeous. With a few pounds they could go in the show ring....Hahaha.
> 
> Angie


I dated some girls like that.....

/Paul


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

I bred a Harley grandson to a Bubba granddaughter and really liked what I got there. I bred the same Harley grandson to an Eba granddaughter and so far those pups are doing fantastic.

I bred Auggie to a MD Houston granddaughter and I liked what I got there. Then took one of those pups and bred him to a Bubba granddaughter and really liked what I got there.

WRL


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

My friend Lanse Brown has a Webshire Honest Abe daughter in FC AFC Eva-Ethyl-Proby Weber and still going well in the twilight of her career...according to my search on EE there are a couple of active dogs born in '03 from an Abe breeding...just search using his name and under sire and it shows a list of dogs with him as the sire


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

This breeding was just done last week... Pretty nice.

http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=98862

Angie


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Be careful what you wish for.....
> 
> Do your homeowrk.....
> 
> Angie


I agree, but even for more reasons than Angie stated. 
Don't overlook the Bebe X Lean Mac boys with Abe bitches


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## Baby Duck (Jul 14, 2005)

Abes youngest son (from last straw) lives here in Ontario Canada. He is owned by Dean Roy. dean runs HRC. His dam is GRHRCH Bluenorths Saved by the bell QAA. Theres no Lottie in the ped though

Mike


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## Aaron Homburg (Sep 23, 2005)

Baby Duck said:


> Abes youngest son (from last straw) lives here in Ontario Canada. He is owned by Dean Roy. dean runs HRC. His dam is GRHRCH Bluenorths Saved by the bell QAA. Theres no Lottie in the ped though
> 
> Mike


Mike is their not a straw or two left on Abe? I thought there was but maybe I am misinformed.

Aaron


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

The most depressing thing is seeing these dogs start to fall of 5-generation pedigrees at some point in the near future... 

Re: Henry's comment... How can you "preserve a line" when after "x" generations, they're so far removed anyway? Even if you line breed, there's still no way to keep them up close forever?

I sure do miss my Lottie/Able granddaughter... She was way too overly watery and has passed that on to some of her kids, although a couple were overly cheaty, as Angie mentioned. Absolutely beautiful dog, miss her a bunch...


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

Aaron Homburg said:


> Mike is their not a straw or two left on Abe? I thought there was but maybe I am misinformed.
> 
> Aaron


Aaron, my vet did a frozen semen surgical to Abe a number of years ago. If memory serves me, Vern Weber explained to me that Abe was an older dog before they started freezing, so their success rate on frozen breedings was not that good at the time. It was a gamble that didn't work out for me. I don't believe there was much frozen semen still available even then. I did get to see Abe at the Lardy Clinic I attended around the same time which was a thrill.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

frontier said:


> Aaron, my vet did a frozen semen surgical to Abe a number of years ago. If memory serves me, Vern Weber explained to me that Abe was an older dog before they started freezing, so their success rate on frozen breedings was not that good at the time. It was a gamble that didn't work out for me. I don't believe there was much frozen semen still available even then. I did get to see Abe at the Lardy Clinic I attended around the same time which was a thrill.


I remember he was collected 11/97 because I was there. That would have made him 10 1/2. I think he was only collected several times. I had a natural litter by him about 3 months after that. For some reason, I think there is one more breeding somewhere. I remember hearing there was no more semen and then someone telling me that there was one more.


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## Lorri (Dec 18, 2003)

There is Abe semen available and Mary Tatum has the last of it. Abe did produce noisy, so did Lean Mac. I'd take a chance on either as they were both incredible dogs. The thing I remember most about Abe is how he wouldn't cast! There is also Autumn Runs Vince semen available. I know this because I took him for the collections. He was both sides barkers and because he was trained by someone that knew what they were doing he wasn't noisey. If Abe is what you want go for it! Lorri O


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Lorri said:


> There is also Autumn Runs Vince semen available.


Vince was an incredible dog. (He's retired, but I'm sure still incredible).


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

Doesn't the janitor of this place have an Abe grandson?

Tom


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## Baby Duck (Jul 14, 2005)

Sorry if I am wrong Greg Moffatt that bred the litter said it was the last one. Reg Tivy arranged it for him...

Mike


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## Kevin Hannah (Jan 6, 2003)

Baby Duck said:


> Sorry if I am wrong Greg Moffatt that bred the litter said it was the last one. Reg Tivy arranged it for him...
> 
> Mike


Don't think it was "the" last straw, it was on of only a couple left though Mike.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Kevin Hannah said:


> Don't think it was "the" last straw, it was on of only a couple left though Mike.


so when my ex said "this is THE last straw " it really isnt ??


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

Wether or not they are better "looking" could be a matter of discussion, but for sure they are better AT looking....

I was told a story one time about a guy who had gone to see Lean Mac run near the end of his career. As he got out of the truck the guy commmented that "he doesn't look any dfferent than most labs" to which the handler replied, "maybe not, but he sure sees better than most of them.." Love that story and love seeing the intensity in a dogs eyes.


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## Kevin Hannah (Jan 6, 2003)

BonMallari said:


> so when my ex said "this is THE last straw " it really isnt ??


No she actually meant it.........judging by the "ex" part anyway.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

other than when abe was bred to lottie, did he produce any thing other than oakley?


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

kip said:


> other than when abe was bred to lottie, did he produce any thing other than oakley?


Plenty of them

NFTCH AFTCH Dippo Marsh Kerensa O Carronade, MH

FC AFC Pinoak's Black Powder Maggie

GRHRCH Hilltop's Guns & Roses MH

FC Smith's Blew By You MH

FC AFC Eva Ethyl Proby Weber

just to name a few


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

kip said:


> other than when abe was bred to lottie, did he produce any thing other than oakley?


I have 37 field champions (someone can correct me if I am wrong), Eba a National field champion, a top Canadian derby dog, a top US derby dog.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

BonMallari said:


> Plenty of them
> 
> NFTCH AFTCH Dippo Marsh Kerensa O Carronade, MH
> 
> ...


FC AFC Northwind Gale Force 96.5 all age pts (dog I co-owned with Mark Akkola) Very nice little female, averaged 8 series in the 4 Nat'ls she ran before dying of cancer at 8 yrs old.


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

I see a lot of people looking for breeding with no Lean Mac, whats the story behind that?


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

huntinman said:


> FC AFC Northwind Gale Force 96.5 all age pts (dog I co-owned with Mark Akkola) Very nice little female, averaged 8 series in the 4 Nat'ls she ran before dying of cancer at 8 yrs old.


So thats who your dog was, didnt make the connection till now, I remember her name showing up on old issues of RFTN...very impressive Bill


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

savage25xtreme said:


> I see a lot of people looking for breeding with no Lean Mac, whats the story behind that?


Who knows? Makes no sense to me....

Angie


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

BonMallari said:


> So thats who your dog was, didnt make the connection till now, I remember her name showing up on old issues of RFTN...very impressive Bill


Naaaa, that was his half dog. His real dog was AFC Mr Tanner's Pioneer Preacher. Maybe he wasn't as talented as Liddy but he was one of the good ones when I was just starting out.


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## BrianG. (Jun 30, 2004)

Angie B said:


> Sure,,,, They are extremely talented. I've trained many of this combination. AWESOME markers with good lines. Slow to mature, even the females. Have a tendency to be noisey. Somewhat independent and watch your water work. They have a tendency to be a tad cheaty. Did I say Noisey!!
> 
> They all are drop dead gorgeous. With a few pounds they could go in the show ring....Hahaha.
> 
> Angie



Sounds just like my male Ben, But I would take a truck load of dogs like him. 
All work, powerhouse, team player when he lets you  

sire : Click 
dame : is out of Chaves and 97-98 CNFC Dippomarsh Kerensa Of Carronade
________
THE CIGAR BOSS


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## Sabireley (Feb 2, 2005)

BrianG. said:


> Sounds just like my male Ben, But I would take a truck load of dogs like him.
> All work, powerhouse, team player when he lets you
> 
> sire : Click
> dame : is out of Chaves and 97-98 CNFC Dippomarsh Kerensa Of Carronade


Sounds like my Ella. Ready to retrieve every waking minute and fun to run. Quick Son to TripxClubmeads Steel magnolia daugher. I have thought about breeding to Shaq or FC Mr. Blue Stomper (Quick son).

Ella X Shaq http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=98493

Ella X Stomper http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=98824


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## Robert (Feb 28, 2006)

What other lines seemed to nic well with Lottie's line?


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Who knows? Makes no sense to me....
> 
> Angie


Me either, Angie. Can't argue with success and a track record of producing...


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Robert said:


> What other lines seemed to nic well with Lottie's line?


Abe and Lottie had the most titled offspring per gooddoginfo. They had 8. Harley and Lottie had 4, Zipparoo and Lottie had 4 and Zip Code and Lottie had 3.

Looks like Lottie could have been bred to any successful stud and she would have had titled offspring. Titled=FC/AFC

Amazing bitch!!!

Angie


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Angie B said:


> Abe and Lottie had the most titled offspring per gooddoginfo. They had 8. Harley and Lottie had 4, Zipparoo and Lottie had 4 and Zip Code and Lottie had 3.
> 
> Looks like Lottie could have been bred to any successful stud and she would have had titled offspring. Titled=FC/AFC
> 
> ...


Plus most of those pups went to FT homes and had the opportunities it takes to get the title...


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Abe and Lottie had the most titled offspring per gooddoginfo. They had 8. Harley and Lottie had 4, Zipparoo and Lottie had 4 and Zip Code and Lottie had 3.
> 
> Looks like Lottie could have been bred to any successful stud and she would have had titled offspring. Titled=FC/AFC
> 
> ...


Abe and Lottie were bred twice I believe. The others were only bred once (I believe).

WRL


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> I agree, but even for more reasons than Angie stated.
> Don't overlook the Bebe X Lean Mac boys with Abe bitches


I have a pup that's out an above described breeding and I'm quite happy with him.

Chris


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## Robert (Feb 28, 2006)

"Abe and Lottie had the most titled offspring per gooddoginfo. They had 8. Harley and Lottie had 4, Zipparoo and Lottie had 4 and Zip Code and Lottie had 3.

Looks like Lottie could have been bred to any successful stud and she would have had titled offspring. Titled=FC/AFC

Amazing bitch!!!

Angie"

Wow...that is amazing! Thanks.

Wondering now how her full siblings did throwing titled offspring???


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> Wondering now how her full siblings did throwing titled offspring???


I know Bebe bred to LeanMac twice had 5 and numerous QAA. She was also bred to Abe, Harley, Eba, Maverick, and Stormy but I don't know if any titled out of those.


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

Hookset said:


> Merck is still alive. You can get info through Roger Perry on this forum. He has lots of experience with Merck offspring, too.


No, Merck is no longer alive. Merck passed away last summer. However Hunter's Road (Merck's son) is stlll alive and running in a hunt test this coming weekend. Hunter will be 11 in July. Hunter was just bred to a lean mac grandaughter. 3 males and 2 females left. Pups were born about 2 weeks ago.


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## Stormsaheadkennels (Jan 20, 2008)

I have an all black litter from my Master Hunter bitch (Nick of Time Wild Wind Windy x NFC AFC FC Maxxs Surpirise) x FC AFC Jaybars Westshore Bean (Webshires Honest Abe x Westwinds Kirby). Pups are 4 weeks, I have 3 males still available. This is a repeat breeding, most of the pups from first litter in field trial homes and with pros, so far they are really liking what they see. I was told by one pro, I was a fool if I didnt repeat this breeding!
Check out puppy page of my website for pics and complete pedigree or give me a call.
Janet (231) 638-2790
www.stormsaheadretrievers.com


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