# The Walk-up in a senior hunt test



## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

In a Walk-up, is the gunner hidden, then pops out and throws? Is it usually a live bird?

Once you sit the dog, do you wait for the judge to release you for the retrieve?

About how far do you walk from the line before bird is thrown? 5 feet, 15', 20 yds ? I know it varies, but approximately on average?

Are walk-ups only on land or water, too?

Thanks,
Jennifer


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## djansma (Aug 26, 2004)

No no yes varies no
any thing can hapen in a sr not normally a flier for the walk up


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Jennifer Henion said:


> In a Walk-up, is the gunner hidden, then pops out and throws? Is it usually a live bird?


Usually hidden behind bushes or in a brushed up blind. Doesn't pop out... bird just comes out.



> Once you sit the dog, do you wait for the judge to release you for the retrieve?


99% of the time, you will wait for the second bird and THEN the judge will release you.;-)



> About how far do you walk from the line before bird is thrown? 5 feet, 15', 20 yds ? I know it varies, but approximately on average?


Will vary but average is probably between 10 & 20 yds from the holding blind.



> Are walk-ups only on land or water, too?


Never seen one on water but that doesn't mean they couldn't do it. Sounds like a logistical hassle.

Thanks,
Jennifer[/QUOTE]


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

The gun station might be hidden, gunners out of sight. All the sudden a bird pops up. Do not expect a duck call etc. to draw the dog's attention. 

So when you walk up, try and walk some how some way to hint to your dog to look out in the direction of the walk up bird.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks.
JS, I was thinking the walk-up was a test all in itself, but it sounds like you are saying it is simply just one of the birds in a double?


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Good notes Renee! Thanks - I can see that being the big part of the challenge if there's another obvious gunner out there for her to stare at.


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## Jeff Brezee (Nov 21, 2012)

I saw a water walk-up in Mondovi, WI last summer during a senior test. The birds landed on land across a body of water, it was a nice set up. Although we did well on the double, we failed due to the blind. That is where I learned what "challenging the blind" meant. I learned a lot about handling during that blind and respect the judges for it.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Jennifer Henion said:


> Thanks.
> JS, I was thinking the walk-up was a test all in itself, but it sounds like you are saying it is simply just one of the birds in a double?


It can be both. Often it is the first bird down, but that makes for a fairly lame memory bird, it being so close and all, so sometimes judges do it separately.

Just keep walking in the direction of the walkup until it is thrown. Then you can give your dog a sit or blow a whistle. it will be very, very obvious when it comes out in your dog's face, so don't worry about not seeing it.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Section 18. Walk Ups. In Senior and Master hunting
tests, a walk up is used to test a dog’s steadiness. The
birds represent a surprise situation therefore gunning
stations must be well concealed, utilizing natural cover
when possible so that only the bird may be seen when launched. Birds shall be presented at a distance ranging
from 35 to 45 yards of the dog with no attention getting
devices utilized.
As the first bird is thrown in a walk up situation, the
handler may give either a verbal or whistle command to
steady the dog once the bird is in the air. Judges shall
tell handlers in advance of the start of judging when it is
appropriate to give the steadying commend or whistle.
There shall be no walk up test situations in Junior
level tests.

Section 6. Senior Hunting Test. Dogs shall be
tested in a minimum of four hunting situations that shall include one land blind, one water blind (that may be run as a double blind on land and water), one double land mark,
and one double water mark. There shall be at least one
diversion shot and at least one of the hunting situations should include a walk-up. In Senior tests, a double mark is
defined as two marks presented before the dog is sent to retrieve. Blinds shall not be run between marks in Senior
Hunting Tests.


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Jennifer Henion said:


> Thanks.
> JS, I was thinking the walk-up was a test all in itself, but it sounds like you are saying it is simply just one of the birds in a double?


If you're talking about AKC Senior, then the marking series are doubles. The walk-up will typically be on the land series. Per the rulebook, there is not to be an attention getting sound on the walk-up and the distance is 35-45 yds (distance from dog to where bird is launched from).

Although not common, I suppose a walk-up could be done as a single (just not typically done that way). It is normally part of one of the doubles. Walk-up on land, honor on water is likley the most common.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Jennifer Henion said:


> Thanks.
> JS, I was thinking the walk-up was a test all in itself, but it sounds like you are saying it is simply just one of the birds in a double?


It can be either one. With the number of entries pushing the time resource, it's most commonly a part of the required double but it doesn't have to be.


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

If the area given for the test allows, I prefer to see the land series have the honor in association with the live flier. 

Walkup on the water series to start the double.


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## Amy Avery (Feb 17, 2005)

I have run AKC tests with the walkup (water & land) and the bird station YELLED "there they go, there they go" poped out
from behind the blind then threw the bird (dead & alive) with a shot.
Pratice the honor too on the water, close to the working dog 

You never know what you will see at a Hunt Test, just practice all kinds of different scenarios!! 

Amy


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

Great notes, thanks!

Kim, thanks for reprinting the rule sections. Somehow I missed the sentence regarding gunners being concealed.


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## hotel4dogs (Aug 2, 2010)

2 of our 4 SH tests the walk-up was on water.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Walk is not that much harder than just sitting there. Keep the dog at heel, alternate commands of heel/mark and when the bird is in the air give you sit command. Its not the scary...

/Paul


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## blake_mhoona (Mar 19, 2012)

Jennifer what happened with the preparing for derbies?


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## Copperhead04 (Sep 16, 2011)

We just ran a senior test last week and there was no was no walkup. Is it required per AKC?


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Copperhead04 said:


> We just ran a senior test last week and there was no was no walkup. Is it required per AKC?


Section 6. Senior Hunting Test. Dogs shall be
tested in a minimum of four hunting situations that shall include one land blind, one water blind (that may be run as a double blind on land and water), one double land mark,
and one double water mark. There shall be at least one
diversion shot and at least one of the hunting situations *sh**ould* include a walk-up. In Senior tests, a double mark is
defined as two marks presented before the dog is sent to retrieve. Blinds shall not be run between marks in Senior
Hunting Tests.


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## tbro (Mar 30, 2011)

Copperhead04 said:


> We just ran a senior test last week and there was no was no walkup. Is it required per AKC?


Not required but very,very common.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

I hope it's not scary /Paul, but it does seem scary at the moment, especially knowing you will be there watching;-)!

And Blake, I'm a little crazy and am trying to do both derbies and senior at the same time... we'll see how it goes.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I remember doing akc walkups with Hudson. One time it was on the water double. The one that scared me the most was honoring on the land walkup. You had to walk with the honoring dog at heel about 3-4 steps behind the working dog and slightly off to the side. One of the birds was a flyer. I had never seen that before. I was saying softly "heel, no bird, heel, no bird......" But we got through it and passed.


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## laurelwood (Dec 1, 2011)

I ran an AKC Senior test recently with a tandem walk-up for the honor too- honor dog walked right beside (about 8 ft apart) the working dog on one of the longest walk-up I've seen, 25-30 yards before they fired off the bird. Also have run tests with walk-up on water, walk-up was a flier and even a walk-out run after the double was picked up as you walked away from the line.


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## Jennifer Henion (Jan 1, 2012)

laurelwood said:


> I ran an AKC Senior test recently with a tandem walk-up for the honor too- honor dog walked right beside (about 8 ft apart) the working dog on one of the longest walk-up I've seen, 25-30 yards before they fired off the bird. Also have run tests with walk-up on water, walk-up was a flier and even a walk-out run after the double was picked up as you walked away from the line.



Holy cow...


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

tbro said:


> Not required but very,very common.


I just now figured out your avatar is a person sitting against a round bale. All this time I thought it was the nose of an ant eater!!! And I would say "why does that guy have an ant eater for an avatar?"


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Good camo if it makes Bora think it's an anteater instead of a person in camo. :lol:


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Howard N said:


> Good camo if it makes Bora think it's an anteater instead of a person in camo. :lol:


 Actually, I thought it was an Anteater too. (Or maybe a long nosed Walrus.)

I know. Weird.


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## PalouseDogs (Mar 28, 2012)

I thought it was a hippo head coming out of muddy water.


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## mlp267 (Oct 9, 2013)

My 1st SH Test was a couple w/ends ago and the walk-up was on water. All of the dogs did well on this.


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## Byron Musick (Sep 19, 2008)

Expect a walk up anywhere, land, water, or both. I think my first walk ups I did not properly teach my dog to follow the gun (or heal properly), and she would fix on the gun station and not the direction of the hidden gun station mark. If you are too out of place you could miss the walk up mark (or at least we did once). Lots of practice with a very white visible gun station (go bird) with a hidden gun as the walk up, she learned that the visible gun station was not necessarily the first bird down. Anyway, everything goes better with practice.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

laurelwood said:


> I ran an AKC Senior test recently with a tandem walk-up for the honor too- honor dog walked right beside (about 8 ft apart) the working dog on one of the longest walk-up I've seen, 25-30 yards before they fired off the bird. Also have run tests with walk-up on water, walk-up was a flier and even a walk-out run after the double was picked up as you walked away from the line.


Have done this in CKC WCX test. It is interesting!!!and you you can't say a word!


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## Tim McGarry (Jun 22, 2010)

Howard N said:


> Section 6. Senior Hunting Test. Dogs shall be
> tested in a minimum of four hunting situations that shall include one land blind, one water blind (that may be run as a double blind on land and water), one double land mark,
> and one double water mark. There shall be at least one
> diversion shot and at least one of the hunting situations *sh**ould* include a walk-up. In Senior tests, a double mark is
> ...


As of Sep 1, 2013

Please see the following rule changes forwarded from the AKC Performance Events Department.



1. The first is concerning Senior Hunting Tests and Walk-Ups. The wording has changed to make it clear that a diversion shot will be included in a Senior Hunt Test AS WELL AS a WALK-UP. Before it has been interpreted that a walk-up could be optional at the Senior level. As of September 1, 2013, this is no longer an option. Please be aware of this change and expect to see this change at any test you are running. Please see the specific wording change indicated below


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Tim McGarry said:


> As of Sep 1, 2013
> 
> Please see the following rule changes forwarded from the AKC Performance Events Department.
> 
> ...


 This is the CURRENT rules for Senior walk up......


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## pzurka (Sep 28, 2011)

*Senior Hunt Test Walk-Ups "with no attention getting devices"*

My young dog and I were recently in our first senior hunting test and the scenario was (bird #1) a walk-up and then (bird #2) a shot flyer. My question is regarding the "with no attention getting devices utilized" verbiage in the rule book. The walk-up station was well hidden (as required) and was not visible to the judge's line of sight. _When the handler/dog team approached the point where the bird should be thrown, one of the judges (from ~ 10 years behind the handler/dog) blew a duck call as a "signal" for the walk-up to be executed_ and unfortunately there was a slight lag in time between the duck call, the launch and then the shot as the duck was at the top of the arc. Unfortunately, most of the dogs that I observed prior to us running, turned to face the duck call (attention getting device ???) and missed the bird mark and wound up running a double blind. In most of the senior hunting tests I ran with previous dogs, the "shot" was fired simultaneously with the launch so the dog at least followed the sound of the shot, not a "diversionary" duck call.
From the rule book (Judge's Responsibilities) - (2) Signaling for birds to be thrown. Each set of Official Guns shall be signaled separately. This
prevents additional birds being shot if a fall is unsatisfactory to the Judges. _The signaling Judge should be careful that neither his signaling nor the shadow of it might
be an unwanted distraction.
_ Can I get any comments or opinions on the "duck call" from behind the dog on a walk-up?

Thanks


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Not a judge and so my opinion is not coming from that perspective.... I don't think a duck call from behind in a senior or master level dog would be considered an unwarranted distraction. The judges have to be able to sugnal for the bird in some way and the use of a duck call is common in doing so.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

I have no idea why someone walking up a bird in an actual hunt would be blowing a duck call. Doing it as a "diversion" in a hunt test is even more absurd.

I or my co-judge always signal to the thrower of the walk up bird with a raised book or radio. I much prefer the raised book, myself.

On a walk up, there should be no attention getter for that bird per the regulations. The bird is launched and a shot fired at the top of the arc.-Paul


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

I wouldn't want a duck call from behind. Every senior test I have run, the judges signaled with a book.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Tobias said:


> Not a judge and so my opinion is not coming from that perspective.... I don't think a duck call from behind in a senior or master level dog would be considered an unwarranted distraction. The judges have to be able to sugnal for the bird in some way and the use of a duck call is common in doing so.


How in the world can you support what you wrote.?
Why not just have a bitch in heat run out 10 yards past the working dog and honor dog and bark at the walk up station to start the test!!??,


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

mjh345 said:


> How in the world can you support what you wrote.?
> Why not just have a bitch in heat run out 10 yards past the working dog and honor dog and bark at the walk up station to start the test!!??,


 I have never had an issue with duck calls coming from the side or behind me at a test. Must be a training/exposure thing. One quack on a duck call is not the same as a string of hail calls...if the dog cant turn to the throw at the sound of the shot.. or in the direction the handler is aiming the shotgun, then perhaps teamwork is lacking....

That said I suppose a radio could be used to call for a bird in the case of a well hidden gun station.


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## djansma (Aug 26, 2004)

I ran run one last year and the judge yells there goes one (yes that is a distraction ) on the walk up,I would suppose they could justify it by saying the gunners were so concealed that was the only way they could signal the bird.But it is wrong!


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## road kill (Feb 15, 2009)

paul young said:


> I have no idea why someone walking up a bird in an actual hunt would be blowing a duck call. Doing it as a "diversion" in a hunt test is even more absurd.
> 
> I or my co-judge always signal to the thrower of the walk up bird with a raised book or radio. I much prefer the raised book, myself.
> 
> On a walk up, there should be no attention getter for that bird per the regulations. The bird is launched and a shot fired at the top of the arc.-Paul


What he said!
100%

Not on a walk up.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

pzurka said:


> My young dog and I were recently in our first senior hunting test and the scenario was (bird #1) a walk-up and then (bird #2) a shot flyer. My question is regarding the "with no attention getting devices utilized" verbiage in the rule book. The walk-up station was well hidden (as required) and was not visible to the judge's line of sight. _When the handler/dog team approached the point where the bird should be thrown, one of the judges (from ~ 10 years behind the handler/dog) blew a duck call as a "signal" for the walk-up to be executed_ and unfortunately there was a slight lag in time between the duck call, the launch and then the shot as the duck was at the top of the arc. Unfortunately, most of the dogs that I observed prior to us running, turned to face the duck call (attention getting device ???) and missed the bird mark and wound up running a double blind. In most of the senior hunting tests I ran with previous dogs, the "shot" was fired simultaneously with the launch so the dog at least followed the sound of the shot, not a "diversionary" duck call.
> From the rule book (Judge's Responsibilities) - (2) Signaling for birds to be thrown. Each set of Official Guns shall be signaled separately. This
> prevents additional birds being shot if a fall is unsatisfactory to the Judges. _The signaling Judge should be careful that neither his signaling nor the shadow of it might
> be an unwanted distraction.
> ...



Is this a regional thing? I seem to recall some NE judges blowing duck calls behind the dog.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Thomas D said:


> Is this a regional thing? I seem to recall some NE judges blowing duck calls behind the dog.


LOL! Yes, I have seen that up here.-Paul


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Tobias said:


> I have never had an issue with duck calls coming from the side or behind me at a test. Must be a training/exposure thing. One quack on a duck call is not the same as a string of hail calls...if the dog cant turn to the throw at the sound of the shot.. or in the direction the handler is aiming the shotgun, then perhaps teamwork is lacking....
> 
> That said I suppose a radio could be used to call for a bird in the case of a well hidden gun station.


Ok Julie help me out here. You Begin by telling us that you have never had a problem with duck calls the side or behind you in a hunt test. 
what do you mean when you say must be a training /exposure thing?
I'm confused because I don't think its an exposure thing, as they are going to hear duck calls at a Hunt test, as well as hunting so you've got to expose them to it. are you saying you train them to ignore duck calls? I wouldn't think that would be the best of ideas.

no argument that string of Hail calls is different than one quack from a duck call. The only thing I read was that "the judge blew a duck call" as a " signal".....
I can't determine anything from that as to whether or not it was a string of hail calls a feeder call or any specifics


Where did you read that it was not a string of Hail calls but was just one quack?

If the dog can't turn to the throw at the sound of the shot... or in the direction the Handler is aiming the shotgun then perhaps teamwork is lacking....
I'm not 100% certain but I believe the rules on a walk up are now has to be under 45 yards and there can't be any noise maker until after the bird has reached top of its Arc. Let's assume the best in assume the bird boy is perfect. Judge signals bird boy throws bird reaches its Arc he shoots. simultaneously the dog is walking beside his hand being a good team player and looking where the handlers going, from behind a quack goes off birthday boy throws bird Dog turns to look at the quack, sees one judge with a duck calling his mouth the other judge with a sandwiches mouth as the bird is reaching its Arc the dog notices a rack with 30 or 40 Birds on it a kid digging in the cooler for a bottle of Pop, the Marshall pointing to a Handler to get over to the master because we're going to rebird here his next dog is an hour off, and next dog& Handler moving to the holding blind and possibly a Committee Member ring the neck of the flyer that is not completely dead from the dog before bird reaches top of Ark bird boy shoots; upon hearing shot dog turns...... speed of light is way faster than speed of sound..... looks out in the field as a flyer shooter for preparing to shoot the next 3rd and somehow did not see the bird, and as a result can't find the bird. 
are you failing that dog for being a bad marker, or for being a bad team. He didnt see the mark even though he turned to the sound of the shot, which apparently satisfies your team work requirement. don't see the logic there everything /dog turns to sound of gunshot. 

If that is the case then there may be no gun shot that would draw the " team player" dog back to the bird. also that 45 yard rule a lot
of walk-ups are in the tree line, with the loud fiocchi poppers that leads to a lot of echoing and confusion as to where the shot originated. 

Your other scenario is where there is no shot for the dog to turn to. in that case you claim the dog should turn and look to where (his teammate) the Handler is pointing the shotgun.
Once again help me out Julie. I value team there for teamwork also, but being a typical male & a lazy bastard I put most of the responsibility on the dog.
I want him keying on my knee, and orienting his body in relation to where my knee is. don't get in front of the knee don't get behind the knee if the knee goes left you go left knee goes right you go righ when the knee stops you stop. If they get a little loose a harrumph or slap on my thigh brings her attention back. 
It's usually a pretty good system. however here I'm flummoxed when he hears a duck call and turns around I can't slap my thigh or clear my throat can't do anything to reorient him.
if didn't find that bird he didn't see I will not consider him a bad teammate that'll be kicked off the team.

we're just going to have to agree to disagree on weather That part of the AKC rule book about the signaling judge should not let his signaling or even the shadow of his signaling be a distraction applies.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Exposure to having judges use a call to signal for birds. It occurred very often in the tests I ran in Alaska (NAHRA) Most dogs who've run enough tests ignore calls coming from the line. I would propose if this is a 'thing' in other areas, that folks train on it. 

I wasn't referencing the test in question with regards to a string of hail calls - just that a single duck call would probably not have the effect of driving a dog to distraction like a string of hail calls. I don't see a single quack on a duck call as being a distraction if it is part of the hunt scenario... And apparently at least some field test committees don't have an issue with use of a duck call at the line (from the judges), since it does occur in tests?

again - training a dog to swing with the shotgun is going to keep the dog looking in the appropriate direction. training a dog to pay attn to his handler's body position in the face of excitement will too. 

I compare it to having junior level dogs being able to pick up a duck that lands near a handful of decoys. (No, not right next to a decoy but a few yards away).


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## priceskeet (Jun 30, 2008)

Tobias said:


> Exposure to having judges use a call to signal for birds. It occurred very often in the tests I ran in Alaska (NAHRA) Most dogs who've run enough tests ignore calls coming from the line. I would propose if this is a 'thing' in other areas, that folks train on it.
> 
> I wasn't referencing the test in question with regards to a string of hail calls - just that a single duck call would probably not have the effect of driving a dog to distraction like a string of hail calls. I don't see a single quack on a duck call as being a distraction if it is part of the hunt scenario... And apparently at least some field test committees don't have an issue with use of a duck call at the line (from the judges), since it does occur in tests?
> 
> ...


I know your dog is better trained then most cause your such great trainer. Most people train to follow the gun on a bucket not standing up walking. If the duck is shot at the top of the arc and the dog has turned to look at the duck calls it would be very easy for the dog to miss the mark before it hit the ground.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

You guys are right. The rules state that dogs should not be distracted by the judges in such a way as to prevent them from seeing the birds thrown.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

In my opinion, a call behind the dog on a walk-up in Senior is incorrect. The obvious answer is to set the station up so that the throwers can peek and see the signal.


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## Mark Couch (Jan 20, 2017)

Seems like the main purpose of a walk up would be to test steadyness, if the dog does not see the mark not very likely to break.


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## priceskeet (Jun 30, 2008)

Mark Couch said:


> Seems like the main purpose of a walk up would be to test steadyness, if the dog does not see the mark not very likely to break.


Not very likely to pick it up either, if he doesn't see the mark.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Mark Couch said:


> Seems like the main purpose of a walk up would be to test steadyness, if the dog does not see the mark not very likely to break.


You are 100% correct.
That's why the scenariodiscussed in OP is so ridiculous on two counts, first by not testing steadiness the way it was meant to be tested and by not testing marking fairly


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## pzurka (Sep 28, 2011)

Is this Paul Young from NAHRA fame?


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Infamy, perhaps.....

How is everything in Jersey?- Paul


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## JimG (Jul 17, 2009)

paul young said:


> Infamy, perhaps.....
> 
> How is everything in Jersey?- Paul


Paul, are you going to be at the test on SUNDAY..... I plan to be there. Jim Gavin


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

JimG said:


> Paul, are you going to be at the test on SUNDAY..... I plan to be there. Jim Gavin


No Jim. got the week off. will be judging next weekend, though.- Paul


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