# Rorem Workshop



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Dave asked me to mention that they have had a few observer cancellations for the upcoming Rorem Handling Workshop in Michigan after the National Amateur. So, if you were thinking about participating, but worried that too much time had passed, throw your name in the mix.

I have attended two Rorem Workshops and plan to make it an annual event. It is a tremendous learning experience for anyone who wants to become a better handler. 

I really cannot say enough good things about the experience.


----------



## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Will "Zen" be talked about in this years seminar?


----------



## byounglove (Mar 2, 2005)

Thanks, Ted for the info on the workshop. To apply you need to go to Dave's website www.roremretrievers.com. 

It says that no apps will be taken after May 1, but since there are a few openings, just go ahead and submit your application and ignore the cut off dates.

Barb


----------



## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

That link does not work because of the final period, to the right of .com

The proper link is http://www.roremretrievers.com/


----------



## byounglove (Mar 2, 2005)

*Michigan Rorem Workshop*

Well, it's almost here......the MI workshop starts this Friday 6/29 thru Sunday 7/1 in Fenwick, MI. We have attendees from Maine to Texas. The weather should be great and the experience priceless!!

Safe travels to all and if anyone has any last minute questions or concerns, you can contact Jerry with the Wolverine Retriever Club (hosting club) at 586-383-3274.

See you there!
Barbara Younglove


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Barb

How was the seminar?

Ted


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> How was the seminar?
> 
> Ted


Awesome! Best money and time I have ever spent........ dave is a great teacher. 

Many thanks to the Wolverine Club for hosting this event!


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Susan

What made the seminar special for you?

Ted


----------



## Greg Seddon (Jan 7, 2005)

I totally agree with Susan that Dave is a great Teacher. 

Ted I would have to say what I liked was learning the handlers pyramid, when to get on & off on point blinds, timing of the whistle, how to read the dog if they are to watery or to skinny in the water how you are going to set the dog up for the next bird. I liked how Dave explained the differences of handling a dog at a weekend FT verses the National.

I am most defiantly going to go again as a handler I think you learn so much not just running your dog but running dogs off of Dave's truck and having him critique you the entire time. I ran Maverick & Aero.


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> Susan
> 
> What made the seminar special for you?
> 
> Ted


Dave is a great teacher. I walked into that seminar like a fumbling amateur, and walked out very smooth. That handler's triangle works perfectly, and if you get it down smooth along with the execution of your casts, it just flows with ease. (It's really all geometry). I was amazed at the water blinds I was able to do using Dave's techniques and coaching. On the last blind I ran on Sunday, I ran it extremely well with Aero, and when I came back with Honor, I challenged that line to the limit with Honor, and got a great result. The communication between Honor and I was perfect, and it showed in our performance of marks and blinds. 

I had heard in the past that marks were the dog's job and blinds were the handler's. I saw readily how untrue that statement is. I was very proud of the work Honor and I did by mid-Saturday, and what we were able to achieve in a very small bit of time. I'm looking forward to getting that DVD of my work with my dog. 

The focus on handling and not dog training makes it an intensive course that was just what I needed. 

But Ted, I do wish you would quit promoting this seminar to others - I really don't want my competition to have the same knowledge I do!


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

JusticeDog said:


> But Ted, I do wish you would quit promoting this seminar to others - I really don't want my competition to have the same knowledge I do!


Susan

It is one thing to have the knowledge.

It is another to execute that knowledge under pressure.

Dave helps people have the former.

However, only they can actualize the latter.

Ted


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> JusticeDog said:
> 
> 
> > But Ted, I do wish you would quit promoting this seminar to others - I really don't want my competition to have the same knowledge I do!
> ...


Very true, Ted. I was kidding about my comment, hence the


----------



## byounglove (Mar 2, 2005)

Ted,

We had a great weekend!! And a great turnout! It was lots of work to host it, but definitely worth it!! 

As you know, Dave is a great teacher. He not only tells you what you are doing wrong, he tells you when you have made a good choice. 

The Art and Science of Handling Retrievers on dvd and the workshops are a must for anyone that is serious about this sport.

Barb


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Barb

What are the three most important lessons you took away from the seminar?

Ted


----------



## byounglove (Mar 2, 2005)

Ted.....I came away with much more than three but here are the ones I really want to concentrate on:

1. The importance of control between the holding blind and the line and how it will affect your dog's performance after he leaves the line.

2. Keep the handling triangle skinny for optimum casts.

3. Learn to read your dogs intentions.

Another one of my favorites is "finish what you start".(a particularily bad habit of mine)

Dave spoke often of you, Ted. How you handled your dogs at the national amateur and how you have applied the many concepts that Dave shares in the DVD and the workshops.

I, also am a student of Dave's and I attribute much of my success to applying his handling and training philosophies. 

I look forward to meeting you someday!!

Barb


----------



## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

What is the "handling triangle"?


----------



## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

WOW!....Talk about 3 days of sittin' in the sun with a great teacher defining the Art of Handling................Excellent..........

Although I was only able to attend as a observer, the exchange of knowledge was superb...........but the desire to get to the line and handle a dawg was probably the hardest thing to overcome all weekend.

As the weekend progressed you could see each handler team growing stronger in their handler skills and developing confidence and Positive Momentum at the line...............

I too came away with many skills and thoughts, much more than three, that Dave stressed over and over again.............

Negative Momentum..........Train Hard, Compete Easy.........Make the holding blind to the mat, Mandatory Compliance..........Accomplishment & Attainment.........Handler influence is absolutely paramount in the dawgs success....................Don't play down a good performance...............Get On the point as late as you can, Get Off the point as soon as ya can.......Walk towards the Hazard, move with yer dawg.......Don't Spectate.........Watch the dawg on marks, except for the flyer.......The Handlers Triangle.........Finish what you Start...........Blow the whistle long and solid..............Have the next breath ready..............Voice inflection........... :arrow: and on and on

It was also great to be able to meet some of the RTF Family in person, Barb Younglove, Greg Seddon, Susan Bledsoe, Judy Chute, Larry Atkins, Bob Mazingo.........to name a few..............  

I too liked the comparison Dave made to a weekend FT and the Nationals.....and the difference in handling at each...............

I look forward to attending another of Dave's Seminars......but with a dawg at my side this time........... :wink: 

With Wendy and I moving to Texas next year, I know that opportunity will present itself, along with being able to train with Dave on a daily basis is something I'm looking forward to............  

Heck Ted, maybe I 'll even get to run Mootsie or Buffy or Zowie in Fayettsville next year...........what a rush............  

I agree with Susan though Ted, let's keep the Rorem Seminar's low key.......and not give the competition a edge................ :lol: 

A Huge THANK YOU to Dave and his Sponsors, Tri-Tronics and Purina, for a great weekend................and a Special THANKS to Dave's Clients that allowed the handlers to run their dawgs at the Seminar................ 

See ya all on the Mat................. :wink:


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Dan



> Accomplishment & Attainment


What do you mean by this?



> Don't play down a good performance


Or this?



> Finish what you Start


Or this



> I too liked the comparison Dave made to a weekend FT and the Nationals.....and the difference in handling at each...............


Which was?

Appreciate any elaboration you can offer. Dave is constantly "tweaking and tuning" his seminars. I don't recall these discussions (but, I could be wrong) at the two previous seminars that I attended.



> Heck Ted, maybe I 'll even get to run Mootsie or Buffy or Zowie in Fayettsville next year...........what a rush............


I plan on running at least two of them next January at the seminar.

Look forward to seeing you with your dogs there

Ted


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

lablover said:


> What is the "handling triangle"?


The theory is that you move your position to optimize your cast.

Imagine a triangle formed by

Blind
Dog
Mat

If dog is undercasting - e.g., you give right back and get left back or left angle back, then you close the triangle - that is, make the triangle narrower - by changing your position (taking a step or two to your left), so that your next cast is as close to a straight back as possible. 

If dog is overcasting - e.g you give right back and get right over - then you open the triangle - that is you make the triangle wider - by changing your position (taking a step or two to your left) - so that when you give your next cast (a left back), and the dog overcasts to the left, it is more on line to the blind.

Hard to explain in words 

Easier to see in person

There was a thread on it somewhere earlier

Ted


----------



## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

Ted, when Dave spoke of Accomplishment & Attainment he spoke about how handlers view the FT venue based on the above two.....by Accomplishments he was referring to the Titles......the FC, AFC & NAFC....and how some handlers are driven by only these Titles...... and forget the personal satisfaction, Attainment, of continually doing a great job at the line whether it a weekend FT or a National and that satisfaction and Positive Momentum associated with that work at the line.............and how only looking for Titles washes out so many people in our sport........

The Don't Down Play a Good Performance also goes along with the Negative Momentum that handlers have at the line or when leaving the line...........and how they're always talking negatively about the their performance or their dawgs performance versus the things that were done well...........

Finish What You Start was in reference to handling on Marks, in other words, Don't Specate, if you start to handle on a Mark, don't become a spectator on the Mat, get your dawg to the bird as effectively and quickly as possible.................because the performance on that one Mark may be the deciding factor in 1st or 2nd in that FT.........

Dave's comparisons of weekend FT versus Nationals mainly referred to how a handler or himself might approach/run a certain Mark or Blind in each of the above situations, such as your approach with Mootsie on the one Mark at the National......and throughout the weekend he tried to express different situations where a handler may attack a blind differently or run a Mark differently based on the their analyzing the setup or the other dawgs performances on Key Birds........like a short retired hen pheasant, or casting off points and long retired water marks.......each of which just may be the one to get you to the next series or win the FT....

Ted, I can't say enough about Dave as a teacher.........even my wife Wendy remarked about how happy his clients dawgs were while they were involved doing the Seminar...........and how Dave's daughter Tye was also so happily involved with the dawgs and how she wouldn't hesitate one moment in placing a dawg with Dave and his family for training.........which I have already talked to Dave about...............and what a nice person Dave and his daughter are............. :wink: 

Looking forward to the next Seminar already............hope to see you there..........


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

With all this talk, you guys are making me wish it was January already! I can't wait...

FOM


----------



## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

One other item that proved interesting at the Seminar was the dawgs reactions to the different types of whistles that were being used.......

I defintely came away from the seminar knowing that the Black Mega Whistle that Dave uses, as well as myself, is the only way to fly..........

Although I entertained the thought of purchasing a couple of the Green Monster whistles, the performances of both the handlers dawgs as well as Dave's Clients dawgs left me with NO DESIRE to own one........or the extremely poor performance from the Orange pealess Mega Whistle......another one I'll never own.............. :wink:


----------



## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

FOM said:


> With all this talk, you guys are making me wish it was January already! I can't wait...
> 
> FOM


It will be here sooner than ya think Lainee...........Patience GrassHopper.........Patience........


----------



## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Polock said:


> One other item that proved interesting at the Seminar was the dawgs reactions to the different types of whistles that were being used.......
> 
> I defintely came away from the seminar knowing that the Black Mega Whistle that Dave uses, as well as myself, is the only way to fly..........


I am not so sure. Take a look at Buffy's water blind at the National, go to AKC.org and look at eighth series. 

I was using Mega Whistle. She did not stop until I switch to Monster

Ted


----------



## Kenmc (Apr 11, 2005)

Polock said:


> One other item that proved interesting at the Seminar was the dawgs reactions to the different types of whistles that were being used.......
> I defintely came away from the seminar knowing that the Black Mega Whistle that Dave uses, as well as myself, is the only way to fly..........
> or the extremely poor performance from the Orange pealess Mega Whistle......another one I'll never own.............. :wink:


How about elaborating a little Polock? Were the dogs that this was demonstrated on accustomed to the whistle they reacted the best to? Hard to believe that their was a difference between the orange mega & the black. They are the exact same whistle except it takes more air volume to blow it with the pea. Lucky Dog did a great job on the marketing of the orange ones.  WIth the right pliers, you can remove the pea from the black one and SHAZAM! :lol:


----------



## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

There were 2 handlers there with the Orange Mega. Seemed real high pitched and neither dawg seem to work well or responded effectly when that whistle was blown. Dave even commented about it's use and the dawgs bad responses. This also seemed to be true when those same handlers ran Dave's client dawgs, neither seemed to effectively stop when it was blown without additional follow-up blows of the whistle.......

Quite a few handlers had the Monster and pretty much got the same effect whether it was their dawg or one of Dave's dawgs. As a matter of fact when Larry was running his dawg on a water blind the dawg never responded even after about 6-7 blows until someone in the gallery blew a Mega to get the dawg stopped for Larry. Of-course none of Dave's dawgs are trained with the Monster when on his truck that I know of.... but I could be wrong there...I just know he doesn't care for it....

Dave mentioned that supposedly the Monster was intended for high wind and running water situations as an improvement in the Mega, but he found it not to be the case................so he sticks with his Black Mega with pea.............


----------



## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

I use both the clear Gonia with a pea in the mega whistle and the Green Monster. The Green Monster will give me at least another 50 yards in windy conditions.

I was in Niland, CA this spring where quite a few handlers were using the orange mega. My feeling was that I didn't like the sound of the dang thing but the dogs seemed to respond to it well.

I guess it's all in what the dogs are used to.

Last winter when I took the Rorem seminar, I used the Green Monster with my dog on occasion. When I ran Dave's dogs I used the regular mega as that's what they were used to in training.


----------



## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

I agree with Dan on the whistles....... I'll keep my clear Mega whistle with the pea. I wouldn't take an orange pealess mega whistle if you gave it to me, but I still have two dogs that were switched to the green monster. One runs better with the Green Monster, as it cuts through the "thundering of the hooves" to get him stopped! :lol:


----------



## Dan Wegner (Jul 7, 2006)

I'll second Dan's observations on the whistles. It wasn't just that Dave's dogs weren't conditioned to the orange pealess mega, because we saw the same results when the handlers used it on their own dogs. 

I bought the orange mega this past winter and conditioned my dogs to it thinking it would be useful on windy days or at longer distances, but fact of the matter is, I had to keep reverting to the clear gonia mega whistle with a pea to get the dogs stopped. I still have it on my lanyard alongside the black one, but after the seminar, I like Dave's approach of sticking with one kind of whistle and simply having two of them since each may produce a slightly different sound that may get the dog to respond.

Aside from the whistles, What an AWESOME seminar! Although the focus was on All-Age stakes and what it takes to compete in Nationals, there was plenty of good information for people from the transition stage on up. Dave really emphasized the importance of our jobs as handlers in helping the dogs to be successful on both marks and blinds... The gallery is for spectators, when you're on line, forget everything behind you and focus on the task at hand. The teamwork concept came through in everthing he talked about. Dave is truly a great teacher. No wonder he's had so much success. I was there as an observer, but hope to get to another seminar as a handler... It was an invaluable experience!


----------



## sueley (Dec 23, 2003)

It's good to hear that Dave's workshops continue to provide a terrific learning experience.
And thanks to everyone for reminding the workshop coordinator it's time to get to work on the 2008 schedule.
Dave's ranch in Fayetteville, TX is the traditional location for the winter workshop held at the end of January.
The summer workshop will be the second weekend in July at Dave's farm in Littlefork MN.
Give us a couple of weeks to regroup and then check the website for exact dates and application information.
See yall there.

Sue


----------



## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

Sue, I want a spot at Fayetteville................goin' on the record here.... :wink:


----------



## tshuntin (Mar 22, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> Polock said:
> 
> 
> > One other item that proved interesting at the Seminar was the dawgs reactions to the different types of whistles that were being used.......
> ...


I have been meaning to ask you that Ted. I Could tell a big difference in sound and obviously saw the result. Cool to hear and see the difference.


----------



## sueley (Dec 23, 2003)

The winter workshop will be January 25 - 27, 2008 at Dave's ranch in Fayetteville Texas.


----------



## sueley (Dec 23, 2003)

The application deadline for the winter workshop is fast approaching.
Details are at wwww.roremretrievers.com.
If you think you have applied via the website but didn't receive a personal email from me, then some technical gremlin is playing games. Please contact me directly. [email protected].


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

So who on RTF has signed up?

Myself with Butthead and David signed up as an observer this time!

FOM


----------



## Lance-CO (Jan 10, 2003)

sueley said:


> The application deadline for the winter workshop is fast approaching.
> Details are at wwww.roremretrievers.com.
> If you think you have applied via the website but didn't receive a personal email from me, then some technical gremlin is playing games. Please contact me directly. [email protected]


Sent you an email. I hope you got it.


Angelo


----------



## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

I'll be there doing some "in-field" video work on blinds. It's really neat to see yourself, and others, from the dog's perspective. Dave is a GREAT teacher of both people and dogs.


----------

