# dog won't pick up duck



## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

i have been reading forum for a while now lots of great info.been very helpful thanks. i have a two yr. old retriever last season was her first yr. hunting she picked up every bird shot down in front of her with no problem. got a duck out of freezer a few weeks back let it thaw. we went out to work that morning like always. threw the bird she ran out and blinked. been told go back to ff. i am doing that now.she will snatch your hand off to make the pressure stop. its all i can do to get her to hold a duck. i have not been using ducks in training. went and got every bird you can think of from freezer no problems just ducks.any thoughts on what may have happened. thanks for any input


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I'd be curious to know what her physical and 'emotional' reaction are to your command to fetch a duck.

do you think it is possible that sometime in the past she got bit by a fly or stung by a hornet or had some other very negative source of pressure occurr when she attempted to pick up a duck?

Have you tried taping wings to a bumper during ff (duck wings)
what about 'socking the duck' - that is putting it into a tube sock so the scent is there....
Whatever it is, the aversion to picking up the duck is greater than the force you are using to overcome it, and I'd be more likely to try less forceful methods to at least get her over the hurdle - (bumper with wings, etc etc).


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

W.C. said:


> i have been reading forum for a while now lots of great info.been very helpful thanks. i have a two yr. old retriever last season was her first yr. hunting she picked up every bird shot down in front of her with no problem. got a duck out of freezer a few weeks back let it thaw. we went out to work that morning like always. threw the bird she ran out and blinked. been told go back to ff. i am doing that now.she will snatch your hand off to make the pressure stop. its all i can do to get her to hold a duck. i have not been using ducks in training. *went and got every bird you can think of from freezer no problems just ducks*.any thoughts on what may have happened. thanks for any input


Is it just ducks out of the freezer ? It may be a battle you don't need to fight if the dog is fine on the fresh ones


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

polmaise said:


> Is it just ducks out of the freezer ? It may be a battle you don't need to fight if the dog is fine on the fresh ones


True that, unless he plans on taking the dog to hunt tests.


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

yes she will pick up a bumper with wings. i have not tried sockn a duck good idea. and yes i was planning on taking her to some hunt test thats how the duck issue showed up. she will retrieve a dead duck if i throw it over water and shoot just not on land.i have lost sleep over this trying to figure out the problem. thanks for replies


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Sometimes those test birds can get so skanky... I personally don't blame dogs for not wanting to pick them up, but in the end, they have to. I guess in my mind, I'd like the dog to first want to pick up the item, before being forced to. However, I do think it important to finish up ff with birds, as part of the overall training (specifically to avoid this type of thing).


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## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

I kind of agree with Tobias first post. That will happen here in Texas with fire ants. Might explain why the dog will retrieve them on water and not land. I would just go back to the basics and get the dog excited about some short hand thrown birds in the yard. Also it could be a size thing after bumpers all year. Try a teal and see what happens.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Did you do walking fetch and stick fetch?


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## Rob DeHaven (Jan 6, 2003)

Is it all ducks? Are you using the same duck every time you try this?


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

yes we did walking fetch. its all ducks thats what has me puzzled. i know its not size we go to a lot tower pheasant shoots she will retrieve roosters that are still alive flapping and scratching she loves it. thats what has me stumped. not sure how much pressure to apply . don't won't to mess her up altogether. I'm sure its just a bump in the road but something happened .the last duck she retrieved was on a hunt last yr. surly she don't remember freezing her but off with that smell.my sons call her a crackhead because all she wont's to do is retrieve and train she will do flips if she sees me get her stuff out


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## MNHunter (Feb 16, 2015)

This may seem obvious but, did you try getting her really excited about the duck a few times and the just tossing it a few feet? Or did you just lob it out there?


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Post a video , let's see?


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## P J (Dec 10, 2009)

If you have someone throwing for you, you could have them throw a couple bumpers first and then just mix in a duck without making a big deal about it. 

I've had that work with a young dog that hasn't had many birds.


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

video? thats above my pay grade i just learned how to get on internet. wish i could that way y'all can see what I'm up against. she just looks at me like you can't make me.thinking about backing off some but still got a lot of training to do. been working on blinds and casting if i do that than she gets what she wont's. repeat ff. hope for the best


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Sometimes you have to think outside the box a little. How often do you train?
Might consider limiting her activity to only obedience for a few days. No retrieves. No play. But, during these days stake her out and let her watch other dogs work..or you toss the bird yourself and pick it up as she watches. Make her think she wants to join in...a little reverse psychology...lol..after a few days she may decide it is not such a big deal to pick up an old duck, if that means she actually gets to do something.

Yes..you cold take her out right now and put enough pressure on her to get the point across...but at what expense? Her trust in you? Personally I'd definitely use force to clean up the issue, but first I would trt to get her picking them up on her own and be happy about it. My opinion. . I am sure some would suggest not putting up with her nonsense (which is what ot sounds like) and just do what it takes to get her to see the light.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Surely you have a friend with an iPhone that can do a video for you. And then post here. What training program did you follow? I need a little more history to help you. Did you do walking fetch and stick fetch?


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## Buncoboy (Feb 3, 2015)

W.C. said:


> i have been reading forum for a while now lots of great info.been very helpful thanks. i have a two yr. old retriever last season was her first yr. hunting she picked up every bird shot down in front of her with no problem. got a duck out of freezer a few weeks back let it thaw. we went out to work that morning like always. threw the bird she ran out and blinked. been told go back to ff. i am doing that now.she will snatch your hand off to make the pressure stop. its all i can do to get her to hold a duck. i have not been using ducks in training. went and got every bird you can think of from freezer no problems just ducks.any thoughts on what may have happened. thanks for any input


I have encountered this in the past. Solution was not all the force so commonly and quickly used, but to use very fresh ducks for awhile. This has quickly fixed the problem, actually has always worked the first bird. Then you can start using the frozen ones again. Has worked on puppies and adult dogs alike.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Get a crate of live ducks. Have someone walk around the field, throw and shoot them. One after the other..
As many times as you can.
if she loves pheasant tower shoots, that should do it.

Or, you can use a very fresh duck. Tie a rope on it, throw. When dog does not pick up, jerk the duck away by the rope. 
Many times, this will work. Dog will go to pounce. Keep jerking until dog picks it up. To keep it from getting away..

You may have to end up forcing. But, to me, that would be the last thing you should try.
Sometimes dogs just develop little glitches. Exactly, a bump in the road. We may not know why. Does not mean, in any way...she won't end up...mad for ducks.


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

thanks for all the advise. i had planned on getting some live ducks and trying that. she is very jealous dog so watching others retrieve may work i talked to a man today about letting her watch him work his dogs. the program i used was by chris akin his program is a little softer than some and yes we did walking fetch. this is not just a hunting dog she is my constant companion she is with me all day every day so i sure don't won't to use to much pressure she is bad to hold a grudge


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Try putting a live mallard in her kennel until she kills it, if she eats part of it that's good too, you can correct that down the road.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Terry Marshall said:


> Try putting a live mallard in her kennel until she kills it, if she eats part of it that's good too, you can correct that down the road.



......Really?


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Tobias said:


> True that, unless he plans on taking the dog to hunt tests.


Also True, but as a transition towards cold dead game fresh shot and not busted up has less complications (for the dog).
Since it's been identified as only 'frozen' duck then removing that from the equation removes the issue/battle .....

The war can be won at a later day .


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I don't think the duck in the crate is the solution. Quail in crate works for dogs that show no interest in birds. But that is not the case here. Given the last post by the op, my suggestion is to seek the help of a pro.


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## dogluvah (Apr 24, 2012)

Are your frozen ducks completely defrosted when you are using them? Perhaps hard cold ducks are bothering her somehow. I always check for possible physical reason if sudden change in behavior. Carefully check, or have vet check her teeth, perhaps the cold is bothering an unnoticed cracked or chipped/broken tooth, or similar problem. A frozen duck thrown into water usually softens up, compared to some of those hard ones that go "thunk" when they land in the field.


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

.the ducks are completely thawed have tried several.i put her back on the table last night with very little pressure she is picking a duck up off table. big step but a long way from where she was.i think most of the pressure was on me. its always amazed me when that light goes off in a dogs head and you can see it in there eyes oooh so thats what you won't me to do its a great feeling. i have talked to a couple of pros. the solutions varied like on here and i appreciate everyone and talking about a quail i threw her one last night with the wings trimmed just a little when i released her the chase was on she has a very strong prey drive. working on getting live ducks now. what does op mean?


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Op = Original Poster = You in this case


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

thanks bamajeff didn't know. as you can tell I'm kind of new to the retriever game


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

polmaise said:


> Also True, but as a transition towards cold dead game fresh shot and not busted up has less complications (for the dog).
> Since it's been identified as only 'frozen' duck then removing that from the equation removes the issue/battle .....
> 
> The war can be won at a later day .


that is right..when it comes to getting a dog to pick up game, I'd surely try what could to teach and give ample opportunity for the dog to enjoy doing so (live, dead, decaying LOL) before forcing the issue.
.although by the OP's orignal post, the dog likes other types of birds that have been killed/frozen/thawed. Not sure if they were 'fresher' specimens or ??? 

I also disagree with the notion of putting a live bird (duck or otherwise) in the dog's kennel to allow her to kill and eat.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Tobias said:


> that is right..when it comes to getting a dog to pick up game, I'd surely try what could to teach and give ample opportunity for the dog to enjoy doing so (live, dead, decaying LOL) before forcing the issue.
> .although by the OP's orignal post, the dog likes other types of birds that have been killed/frozen/thawed. Not sure if they were 'fresher' specimens or ???
> 
> I also disagree with the notion of putting a live bird (duck or otherwise) in the dog's kennel to allow her to kill and eat.


why have you tried it


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Since she is will you constantly, then you need to put her out of her comfort zone.
If she sulks, so be…she is smarter than you think and may be playing on you. 


Lastly…Terry…you amaze me man…


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I have tried it with a quail. But only when the dog didn't show any interest in birds or otherwords have any prey drive. But that is not the case here. 
Sharon Potter wrote a very interesting post about this process.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Terry Marshall said:


> Try putting a live mallard in her kennel until she kills it, if she eats part of it that's good too, you can correct that down the road.


Please expand on this Terry. I am curious why you would allow a dog to eat a duck, Wouldn't this promote, at the very least, chewing or mouthing? It would seem to me in a hunting situation this would only encourage killing and eating a cripple. I'm a gun dog guy so maybe I don't understand professionals methods and the logic behind them. Thanks in advance.

This is intriguing to me. I have always been taught never to promote a bad behavior and that it is always harder to correct a learned behavior than to have never let it take place in the first place. Thanks again.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Birds in a kennel are an old pointer dog method of getting dogs interested in birds. They often put the birds in the kennel and left the dog there with no food until the dog went after the birds. Of course in pointing dogs they don't care much about mouth problems and sometimes even having the dog retrieve the birds much unless you plan on high level field trials. Not so sure I would use it on a retriever.

/Paul


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Birds in a kennel are an old pointer dog method of getting dogs interested in birds. They often put the birds in the kennel and left the dog there with no food until the dog went after the birds. Of course in pointing dogs they don't care much about mouth problems and sometimes even having the dog retrieve the birds much unless you plan on high level field trials. Not so sure I would use it on a retriever.
> 
> /Paul


Hey Paul good to see you back on here. What is curious to me other than Mr. Marshal is why this dog went from picking up all birds last years to blinking now. Any ideas> and why just on ducks. Strange to me.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Mr Marshall, I've never used the method. Never needed to ad it was, as I understood, used for dogs with NO birdiness. I would not think it necessary for a dog that is already picking up birds.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

duk4me said:


> Hey Paul good to see you back on here. What is curious to me other than Mr. Marshal is why this dog went from picking up all birds last years to blinking now. Any ideas> and why just on ducks. Strange to me.


Well, hard to say without really knowing the history but on the surface i'd say "something" occurred that left a bad memory with ducks. it also sounds like FF hasn't really been completed which means the dog perhaps has some resentment towards ducks. really hard to say from a few forum posts without getting more info and watching the behavior. 

/Paul


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Live quail in crate is pretty much a last ditch effort to bring out the prey drive. I have only done it once but it worked.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> really hard to say from a few forum posts without getting more info and watching the behavior.
> 
> /Paul


Like #12 ? .....


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

duk4me said:


> Please expand on this Terry. I am curious why you would allow a dog to eat a duck, Wouldn't this promote, at the very least, chewing or mouthing? It would seem to me in a hunting situation this would only encourage killing and eating a cripple. I'm a gun dog guy so maybe I don't understand professionals methods and the logic behind them. Thanks in advance.
> 
> This is intriguing to me. I have always been taught never to promote a bad behavior and that it is always harder to correct a learned behavior than to have never let it take place in the first place. Thanks again.


Hey Big boy
Have you ever experienced a quail hunt where the handler gave the head of the quail to the dog that retrieved the bird? 
Same concept, blood is the reward. I do this with all my retrievers they all must kill a duck and then I'll cook the meat and feed it to them the next day.

I hate sharing these tid bits as I get hazed from the OTHER WORLD


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Terry Marshall said:


> Hey Big boy
> Have you ever experienced a quail hunt where the handler gave the head of the quail to the dog that retrieved the bird?
> Same concept, blood is the reward. I do this with all my retrievers they all must kill a duck and then I'll cook the meat and feed it to them the next day.
> 
> I hate sharing these tid bits as I get hazed from the OTHER WORLD


I understand completely Terry,why I pretty much keep quiet........I will share a story dad told me one time.He was training with an old pro(not mentioning names).At the end of the day they pulled up to a rather large pen full of golden pups.....old pro proceeded to dump the days dead birds in the pen with the pups......dad goes wth are you doing?.........pro says he's been doing it for years and has never had a pup refuse to pick up a bird...the hard mouth can be worked on later(like Terry said)....Jim


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Terry Marshall said:


> Hey Big boy
> Have you ever experienced a quail hunt where the handler gave the head of the quail to the dog that retrieved the bird?
> Same concept, blood is the reward. I do this with all my retrievers they all must kill a duck and then I'll cook the meat and feed it to them the next day.
> 
> I hate sharing these tid bits as I get hazed from the OTHER WORLD



I don't think anyone was giving you a hard time. Some people to happen to disagree with the notion of letting a dog catch, kill, and eat a bird..at least for dogs that already like birds. Maybe it would not lead to hard mouth or other issues in the field for some dogs, but I would not be inclined to try it..personal opinion. Perhaps the OP ought to give it a try..it may be all his dog needs to feel confident about stinky hunt test ducks.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Should write a book, Terry. Interesting stuff. Any others you can share with us?


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Thomas D said:


> Should write a book, Terry. Interesting stuff. Any others you can share with us?


Yes I will write a book about the "Wisconsin Women" but still doing my research.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Terry Marshall said:


> Yes I will write a book about the "Wisconsin Women" but still doing my research.


You need to stay focus...
The tactics that we did back then don't apply to the modern and I repeat modem training methodologies of today. 
If you are doing this as what was back then, then I can appreciate that for reference only with what was limited to us at that time and word of mouth on what worked.
Just saying....


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

been going back threw ff. with all the dowls, bucks, bumpers, ect. duck wings on bumpers.on table and on ground with walking fetch no problems. she will retrieve bumpers covered with duck wings. it takes very little pressure with ff. she knows what is going on. add a duck to the table i can get her to pick it up but she is not happy about it,she doesn't hold very well with duck,everything else she holds till told different. i dropped the remote for the tv the other night while sitting in my chair , told her to fetch she handed it to me she understands i fill she is choosing not to when she wants. still can't figure out what happened we ended last duck season on a good note no issues. we went to a tower shoot last week she worked and handled better than she ever has but they where not throwing ducks. gona work on getting some live ducks next week. i want to say thanks for all the tips and advise it is very much appreciated. not able to take her to a pro. trainer gona have to do it myself so keep it coming thanks


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

Thinking outside the box is often useful when "up a blind alley". It is said that dogs don't think like humans. They don't think linearly. Meaning "If I do this, then that....I will get what I want." They learn things well through successful repetitions and they develop mental blocks through faulty repetitions........or even a single error in judgment at the wrong time. If you've ever hunted ducks in a "boggy" marsh it can only take one bad step to become really "stuck in the muck". 

Given the above, the dog in question has a specific *mental block* about "picking up ducks". A mental block is a complex, intertwined series of emotions and mental processes caused by and perpetuated by (among other things) a lack of inspiration, lack of focus/too many distractions, lack of confidence and stress. Design training to change those in the mind of the dog. 

Attempting to make the dog retrieve "because I said so" will most likely continue to perpetuate the issue. From my experience this approach requires a major shift in the trainer's rationale. It is not simple to convince a dog that you are a different person with a totally new "plan". It will most likely not be a quick, two week fix.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Wayne Nutt said:


> I have tried it with a quail. But only when the dog didn't show any interest in birds or otherwords have any prey drive. But that is not the case here.
> Sharon Potter wrote a very interesting post about this process.



I used it for a dog that was both bird shy and gun shy, and it worked very well in that particular instance. The dog had been hunted for a couple of years with good success, and then a woodcock flushed bill first up the dog's nose and punctured its sinus cavity, resulting in a trip to the vet. 

In a case where a dog had been picking up birds but then started refusing, I personally like to figure out why and then work from there, using the "why" as my guide.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

BJGatley said:


> You need to stay focus...
> The tactics that we did back then don't apply to the modern and I repeat modem training methodologies of today.
> If you are doing this as what was back then, then I can appreciate that for reference only with what was limited to us at that time and word of mouth on what worked.
> Just saying....


Sounds pretty focused to me. Terry let me know if you need any help on research for the book.


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

why??? can't tell you how many hours i have spent just trying to remember that last hunt did i do something, what may have happened to her to have effected her this way, did i accidentally sit on the button, did a bone stick her in the mouth.just don't know. i feel sure its not due to a training mishap not been using ducks. if i use the e-collar its mainly just for obedience . just got to figure it out and work toward getting her back on path only few weeks until season opens. i know there is not a quick fix but at least one step in the right direction will take a lot weight off.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I bet the dog will be fine when you go hunting. I had something similar happen and my pro told me don't make an issue of it and the next HT he forgot about it. Relax. Go shoot some live ducks. I bet in the excitement of the hunt he will be fine. He doesn't have to eat a duck.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I agree....I think he'll likely be just fine when you go hunting. Meanwhile, what about a shackled/hobbled duck that he can chase down?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

WC, chances are it wasn't anything that happened on your last hunt last year. More likely, it's the frozen-then-thawed duck that's causing the refusal for whatever reason. Do you wrap your frozen ducks in newspaper/paper towel or something before you freeze them? They tend to stay drier and less slimy when frozen that way, and some dogs need to be taught to pick up soggy, slimy, thawed ducks. Just get a live duck and put him on it.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

I like what Jim(Kwicklabs) says, I think the key is as he says INSPIRATION. Do whatever you need to do to get this dog inspired on ducks. Start with good ducks (might be live) and end with skanky HT ducks.


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## W.C. (Oct 19, 2015)

thanks for the advice will let all know how it goes


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## lorneparker1 (Mar 22, 2015)

bump. 

howd you make out?


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## Steveo (Feb 1, 2015)

Tobias said:


> I don't think anyone was giving you a hard time. Some people to happen to disagree with the notion of letting a dog catch, kill, and eat a bird..at least for dogs that already like birds. Maybe it would not lead to hard mouth or other issues in the field for some dogs, but I would not be inclined to try it..personal opinion. Perhaps the OP ought to give it a try..it may be all his dog needs to feel confident about stinky hunt test ducks.


<-- That dog had some similar issues to OP at about 12 mos. A combination of wings on bumpers, shooting pigeons, letting him catch shackled pheasants, and plenty of game farm and wild birds won him over. 
Competition from other dogs helped, too. Yes, i fed him a few birds, only after a retrieve. I felt he earned it.
At about 5 y.o., opening day he was running a grouse in the alders, he lunged and caught it, and brought it to hand.
Warm, dead, a little drool, but pristine. 
He also would grudgingly fetch woodcock.

Only thing I did was get him to birds and praise him for handing them over, and feed him guts on occasion.

Last grouse he flushed, i shot and let him eat the whole damn thing.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Steveo said:


> <-- That dog had some similar issues to OP at about 12 mos. A combination of wings on bumpers, shooting pigeons, letting him catch shackled pheasants, and plenty of game farm and wild birds won him over.
> Competition from other dogs helped, too. Yes, i fed him a few birds, only after a retrieve. I felt he earned it.
> At about 5 y.o., opening day he was running a grouse in the alders, he lunged and caught it, and brought it to hand.
> Warm, dead, a little drool, but pristine.
> ...


Ok, that just seems weird to me.


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## steve schreiner (Jun 15, 2009)

John Robinson said:


> Ok, that just seems weird to me.


Sounds like a bird dog trainer trick to me....Steve S


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## K9kodi (Dec 30, 2015)

The advice given all seems solid. Here are two other things that may be worth tryjng


1) drop a towel in with a fresh duck in a plastic bag or ziplock. let it permeate and use the towel, rolled up tightly and taped for retrieves. 

2) take either a live duck or a dead duck and tie some string or rope to it. Either have a friend pull it or you pull it and get your dog to use his natural prey to grab it. His prey drive may be strong enough to overcome his hesitancy to pick up dead duck. If it works with a moving duck, slowly back it down. Have it move till he's really close, but most importantly committed then stop moving it. Then stop moving it sooner and sooner till it was just tossed. As it hits the ground send the dog. Then back off that and rework the hold.

this is all considering the dog isn't picking up the duck because it's a duck, not because it's and le frozen nasty bird.
prey drive is a strong natural drive and if you keep the dog focused on reactionary prey drive he may ignore the reason for not picking it up other times.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

K9kodi said:


> The advice given all seems solid. Here are two other things that may be worth tryjng
> 
> 
> 1) drop a towel in with a fresh duck in a plastic bag or ziplock. let it permeate and use the towel, rolled up tightly and taped for retrieves.
> ...


Well Said.......
One thing I was going to add is and I think it might have been mentioned earlier, is shoot live mallards just as you are at the tower shoots. It's the warm blood that will get this dog moving FOR SURE PARDNERS.


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## K9kodi (Dec 30, 2015)

Tanks terry, for sure what you said as well


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## cottageman (Oct 27, 2017)

very interesting, thanks for sharing


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## MissSkeeter (May 17, 2013)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Birds in a kennel are an old pointer dog method of getting dogs interested in birds. They often put the birds in the kennel and left the dog there with no food until the dog went after the birds. Of course in pointing dogs they don't care much about mouth problems and sometimes even having the dog retrieve the birds much unless you plan on high level field trials. Not so sure I would use it on a retriever./Paul


Also advocated by Robert Milner in his old book "Retriever Training For the Duck Hunter":
http://www.duckhillkennels.com/libraries/PDFs/RetrieverTrainingForTheDuckHunter.pdf

Milner seems to have many unconventional approaches..back then and today...
some of his training methods (toe-hitch) were similar to conventional pointer training.
(Ironically back then Milner was a big fan of force fetch)

From his book (I don't do this!):
"_If you’ve given this a good honest effort and stillget no response then you’ve got a disinterested retriever._
_Here are three course of action:_
_1. Get the dog started by *letting him eat birds*. If you can get him wanting that_
_bird badly enough, then you can get him to run out and grab a bird that you_
_throw. You’ll probably have to haul him back to you with the rope but you’ll_
_have that basic pattern of retrieving behavior started._
_Here’s how to begin: Put your dog in his kennel and leave him there. Don’t feed_
_him the first day. (Of course he should have water at all times.) The second day, put a_
_freshly killed pigeon in with him. If he eats it then feed him as usual, leaving him in the_
_kennel. Feed him another pigeon the second and third days and feed him his usual meals._
_The fourth day, put a live clipped-wing pigeon in with him and let him kill it. The next_
_day do the same. Now you’re ready to try a few short retrieves. Take your dog out on a_
_long rope and try a few short retrieves with frozen pigeons. (He can’t eat those.) Each_
_time he brings back a bird, whether pulled in by rope or voluntarily, pet and praise him_
_before prying the bird out of his mouth. Don’t harass him about being hardmouthed. Our_
_main concern is the retrieving. We’ll take care of the hard mouth later with the_
_conditioned retrieve training."_


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

This thread is almost two years old two posts ago.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

KwickLabs said:


> This thread is almost two years old two posts ago.


Yeah, but will the dog "seat" on a duck?


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