# Why Run A MH Dog In More Tests



## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Well I guess the first response is " To get a MN Title".
Second response would be "To keep him in shape"
The third is "ego"
How about the costs.
All that a side, Don't you think that those Senior Hunters need a chance on the line with their peers.
Don't you think MH titled dogs should compete in their own arena?

My personal dogs that get to that level become my hunting companion(s) and deservedly so, they are the GOODEST DOGS


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Time for popcorn..... 

But I'll bite. Because it's fun. I could care less about MN and I like to socialize and run tests. I don't hunt.


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## Good Dogs (Nov 1, 2005)

What Sue said.
"Cause it's fun. Fun for the dogs and fun for the owner/handler.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

because its fun for handler and the dogs enjoy it. its about competing as a team and having fun. plus if a dog has what it takes to be used as a stud dog its nice to see a male that has passed more than just a few test to get a title. if its just about getting to a point to then hunt your dog save the money and get them to a junior or senior level and be doe and save your money. this is a sport in my mind, a sport is something you do for fun and what better thing to do than to share it with your dog.


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

suepuff said:


> Time for popcorn.....


and a Beer !!!! Cheers !!!!!!


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

If you want to gain entry to MNHOF, you have to pass the MN 3 times. To pass 3 times you have to qualify 3 times. So you run MH after you have achieved MH.
Contrary to many opinions, it is not to keep Senior dogs from achieving MH title or to keep amateurs from gaining entry.


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

For fun of it.........

And hunt tests are not competitions.


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## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

People may not mean to prevent senior dogs and amateur handlers from being able to run master and gain the title, but it does have that result. I think that AKC needs to look at cutting down the number of juniors and seniors to say one of each per test/weekend and add to the master entry limit.


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> and a Beer !!!! Cheers !!!!!!


Crown for me.


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## DMA (Jan 9, 2008)

BJ if you run for Crown you may want to run Sand and Sage. I'm sure we will at least have Pendelton. Other than that it's for fun


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

DMA said:


> BJ if you run for Crown you may want to run Sand and Sage. I'm sure we will at least have Pendelton. Other than that it's for fun


I have great memories of Sand and Sage in the past and yes I would not have a problem with Pendelton on the rocks. Very smooth.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

To help support the clubs that hardly ever fill.


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

If we can earn a MH title, I will continue to run him in tests. Why? I love to watch my dog retrieve. He gives 110% because he loves his job. I have also met the nicest people at hunt tests.


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## quackaholic (Aug 26, 2013)

I see the ops point. Sometimes it could have a possibility of filling the field and keeping SH from getting in. I think he's not suggesting to keep them from running, just make MH titled their own field. But then there you go with time constraint. I don't trial, but I just recently watched a MH series a few weeks ago. And several of the dogs had already obtained their title. But in this case they still had slots left over. So there wasn't any issue.

Still the post about it being a sport is true. Michael Jordan didn't have to sit the bench just because he was great. Lol


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Terry Marshall said:


> Well I guess the first response is " To get a MN Title".
> Second response would be "To keep him in shape"
> The third is "ego"
> How about the costs.
> ...


So after you get a MH on your dog you don't run them anymore?


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## IBdogged (Jul 17, 2015)

As a real newbie, running masters for the first time this year, I have had so much fun, and met so many nice people, even though we have a long way to go to get our MH. My 2 yo has consistently run with seasoned MH and MNH who are much older than she is, with handlers who are much better than I am. I used each test as a learning experience, to see the holes in my training for both myself and my dog. She absolutely loves hunt tests, and if she didn't enjoy herself, we would be doing something else. We've passed 3 tests, which I am proud of and I am of the mindset that each test is preparation for the MN which I hope to run in 2 years. 

I worry that the tests are getting so complex that the amateur trainer like myself will soon be run out of the tests due to the amount of training required to learn all the concepts. As far as locking seniors out, I am able to watch for tests opening just like everyone else does, and take my chances.


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

Simple answer- Because it is our Hobby. WE are not chasing titles for any reason other than we like the road that takes us there. Hubby runs our older Golden, Tide in tests even after he has qualified for MN... Because its something he enjoys doing. He is still learning how to be a better handler, and every test is a learning experience. We own tide as it was an opportunity for my husband to learn to be a hunt test handler, and he is learning FROM his dog, who has the experience, and is pretty forgiving! If Tide fails, it is almost always a handling issue! 

If you are not running hunt tests because you enjoy the sport... Why the heck ARE you running them???????????????


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## Dwestall (Aug 30, 2011)

Trevor Toberny said:


> because its fun for handler and the dogs enjoy it. its about *competing as a team* and having fun. plus if a dog has what it takes to be used as a stud dog its nice to see a male that has passed more than just a few test to get a title. if its just about getting to a point to then hunt your dog save the money and get them to a junior or senior level and be doe and save your money. this is a sport in my mind, a sport is something you do for fun and what better thing to do than to share it with your dog.


You aren't competing

My dog has a lot more fun hunting than any hunt test.....I still run tests anyway because I can't hunt in summer time come Sept 1st there is no chance I'd be running a hunt test as opposed to chasing some flying feathered critter


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

The little sideways complaint about SH dogs getting a chance to run wasn't missed by everyone. 

So if you want to be a sportsman and be generous, you don't put your MH into a test that's limited out if you don't need the pass for nationals. Remembering, of course that what you think is the right thing to do isn't necessarily what someone else thinks is right, and that doesn't mean there's anything better about you or wrong with them. It is what it is.

There are plenty of tests not limiting out to have fun at, at least in our little part of the world. 

Taking a step away from the plate to let someone else eat is always gratifying also.

If you have the mindset.


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## Moose Mtn (May 23, 2013)

DarrinGreene said:


> The little sideways complaint about SH dogs getting a chance to run wasn't missed by everyone.
> 
> So if you want to be a sportsman and be generous, you don't put your MH into a test that's limited out if you don't need the pass for nationals. Remembering, of course that what you think is the right thing to do isn't necessarily what someone else thinks is right, and that doesn't mean there's anything better about you or wrong with them. It is what it is.
> 
> ...



YES! This is a good sportsmanlike approach. We waited until the week before closing to enter Tide at one of the spring tests- as he was already MN qualified. The test didn't fill (AT ALL) and Tide didn't get a ribbon due to a VERY big handler mistake (Brian went to take the bird from Tide, and Brian Dropped it... without thinking, he grabbed the bird from the ground rather than having Tide pick it up) and it was a lesson learned.

On the other side of the coin, if I didn't have any MN goals- and just was chasing a MH title- Id be shopping the Clubs that are not MN clubs- as their tests are usually wide open, and a easy entry for the title aspect.


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

Well, you could have a situation like mine where our team now consists of a master hunter and a junior (at best) handler. There's not really any way to learn to handle at the test other than handling at the test. As a well-known Mr. Brown told me once, you have to handle a lot to get all your screw-ups out of your system so you might then be able to help the dog. Or something pretty close to that anyway.


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## Wyldfire (Sep 24, 2003)

Terry Marshall said:


> Well I guess the first response is " To get a MN Title".
> Second response would be "To keep him in shape"
> The third is "ego"
> How about the costs.
> ...


Because they did all the work to make the event happen. If people want more opportunities to run there dog they need to step up more and help create more events. The people with multiple MHS are for the most part the hard core workers. Yes pros don't always do a lot at events but the do a lot of stuff before and after.


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

I personally am glad to see the MH dogs running. Their owners are the ones throwing birds, shooting flyers, rebirding and handling the administrative duties. SH owners moving up may not be experienced enough to handle these tasks. A first time Master handler doesn't need all the distractions anyway. 

Just hope those proposing stakes for untitled dogs are also willing to organize, set up and work them.


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## Wyldfire (Sep 24, 2003)

fishduck said:


> I personally am glad to see the MH dogs running. Their owners are the ones throwing birds, shooting flyers, rebirding and handling the administrative duties. SH owners moving up may not be experienced enough to handle these tasks. A first time Master handler doesn't need all the distractions anyway.
> 
> Just hope those proposing stakes for untitled dogs are also willing to organize, set up and work them.


I agree and with the new rules of 10% of entries guaranteed for workers those complaining are showing they aren't working 5 events. If they did they would could have entered.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Wyldfire said:


> I agree and with the new rules of 10% of entries guaranteed for workers those complaining are showing they aren't working 5 events. If they did they would could have entered.


It's 15%.......


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Thomas D said:


> So after you get a MH on your dog you don't run them anymore?


Hey Tom
Yes I do, as so many have spoken, I love the competition and the dog do as well. This fall I have 10 personal females, all of which I want to title prior to breeding. The ones that are ready to go in September are 2 Juniors, 2 Seniors, and 3 Masters, ( 3 Ford pups almost 6 months if you're doing the math).
Entry fees alone will get your attention not to mention expenses, but all of which I am prepared to pay. Of my 3 dogs running Master tests, one is titled, the others are not. I have no intention of running her in the MN in St. Louis as she is 5 and if I spent the $ and had the success to get the title she'd be way too old to to recoup any "investment".
She trains every day with us and in my mind doesn't need more ribbons, if we have space on the trailer, she'll come along as a pick up dog, bye dog, or set up dog if needed.


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## Camo9244 (Jan 15, 2015)

DarrinGreene said:


> The little sideways complaint about SH dogs getting a chance to run wasn't missed by everyone.
> 
> So if you want to be a sportsman and be generous, you don't put your MH into a test that's limited out if you don't need the pass for nationals. Remembering, of course that what you think is the right thing to do isn't necessarily what someone else thinks is right, and that doesn't mean there's anything better about you or wrong with them. It is what it is.
> 
> ...


The problem with this is that not all areas are the same..If you live in the deep south "Louisiana and Texas" you cant wait till the senior dogs get entered. Spring Master test fill in 3-5 min in most cases so if you are not setting at your PC and ready you will not run any!!!


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Terry Marshall said:


> Hey Tom
> Yes I do, as so many have spoken, *I love the competition... *.


That word keeps getting used. Hunt tests are not competition. There are a couple venues that are, but this isn't one of them.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

If that's not a competion I don't know what is. "Com on man"!!!!!


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Terry Marshall said:


> If that's not a competion I don't know what is.


. 
Since you don't know, a Competition is called a Field Trial.


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## Kevinismybrother (Aug 3, 2009)

suppose you have a dog or 2 that has either the MH/MNH title. Suppose the club expects you to work the event since you are a member and they need help. I for one would suggest that person go ahead and run said dogs anyway since they are there instead of just working their shift and going home.

But I am that way.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Breck said:


> .
> Since you don't know, a Competition is called a Field Trial.


I am sorry but I can't leave this alone, a hunt test is a competition against a standard. You field trialers need to get off your high horse. Why quibble over something so minor as a word. I thought we were all in this together.


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Clint Watts said:


> I am sorry but I can't leave this alone, a hunt test is a competition against a standard. You field trialers need to get off your high horse. Why quibble over something so minor as a word. I thought we were all in this together.


Then solitaire is also a competition. 

I like hunt tests, but to compete, you and your dog are measured against someone else and their dog. Words have meaning.


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## RJG (Feb 18, 2005)

1. Solitaire is a competition against the game (imo)
2. I run my MH dogs for fun because both of us enjoy it and I put in my share of work for our club. (However, I did not run them after we qualified for this year's MN to allow others the chance to enter).
3. If you live in South Florida, there are too many gators to take a chance taking your dog duck hunting (imo). Not worth it.
4. And, yes, I feel we are all in this together so we ought not quibble  imo


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

captainjack said:


> Then solitaire is also a competition.
> 
> If it is not a competition, then how do you win? Truly this is minor and not something worth arguing over. I believe everyone understands that A FC title is much harder to attain, but all Dog games need to be respected by all of us in the sport. Let's not belittle one venue over another. Thanks


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Clint Watts said:


> captainjack said:
> 
> 
> > Then solitaire is also a competition.
> ...


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## phillip1119 (Sep 6, 2011)

Competition comes in many forms but will always rests in the eye of the beholder.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

com·pe·ti·tion
ˌkämpəˈtiSH(ə)n/
_noun_
noun: *competition*


the activity or condition of competing.
"there is fierce *competition between* banks"

synonyms:rivalry, competitiveness, vying; Moreconflict, feuding, fighting; 
_informal_keeping up with the Joneses 
"I'm not interested in competition"







an event or contest in which people compete.
plural noun: *competitions*
"a beauty competition"

synonyms:contest, tournament, match, game, heat, fixture, event "Stephanie won the competition"







the person or people with whom one is competing, especially in a commercial or sporting arena; the opposition.
"I walked around to check out the competition"

synonyms:opposition, other side, field; enemy; 
challengers, opponents, rivals, adversaries; 
_literary_foe 
"we must stay ahead of the competition"








Ecology
interaction between organisms, populations, or species, in which birth, growth and death depend on gaining a share of a limited environmental resource.


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## SamLab1 (Jul 24, 2003)

Terry Marshall said:


> This fall I have 10 personal females, all of which I want to title prior to breeding. The ones that are ready to go in September are 2 Juniors, 2 Seniors, and 3 Masters, ( 3 Ford pups almost 6 months if you're doing the math).
> Entry fees alone will get your attention not to mention expenses, but all of which I am prepared to pay. Of my 3 dogs running Master tests, one is titled, the others are not. I have no intention of running her in the MN in St. Louis as she is 5 and if I spent the $ and had the success to get the title she'd be way too old to to recoup any "investment"


10 bitches to breed as soon as you get them titled!!!! I guess this answers why you asked why run after getting MH title. Some participate as a sport/hobby they enjoy, others try to make money riding the backs of those who do it for fun and put on the tests. Now I understand why you started this thread.


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

SamLab1 said:


> 10 bitches to breed as soon as you get them titled!!!! I guess this answers why you asked why run after getting MH title. Some participate as a sport/hobby they enjoy, others try to make money riding the backs of those who do it for fun and put on the tests. Now I understand why you started this thread.


Thank God for the breeders who do what they do, providing a great service for those of us who participate in a sport / hobby we enjoy. I guess some folks don't appreciate folks that make money, provide jobs and goods for everyone to buy and enjoy. There would be no sport without the breeders, then you would have to look for something else you enjoy to ruin.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

And some people even are going for Placements at hunt tests. They have side bets with their friends usually involving alcohol and the owners come and ask to see their score sheet after the test and they Place their dogs to determine a winner. 
Of course the judges are not allowed to place dogs per the rules but the owners are free to do so.... And are also entitled to see their score sheets per the rules. ( only their dogs score).


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Kelly Greenwood said:


> And some people even are going for Placements at hunt tests. They have side bets with their friends usually involving alcohol and the owners come and ask to see their score sheet after the test and they Place their dogs to determine a winner.
> Of course the judges are not allowed to place dogs per the rules but the owners are free to do so.... And are also entitled to see their score sheets per the rules. ( only their dogs score).


How sad is that?-Paul


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

paul young said:


> How sad is that?-Paul


Actually sounds like fun, not sad at all.


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Clint Watts said:


> Actually sounds like fun, not sad at all.


That's what gets me. Every AKC hunt test has a group of people sitting in the gallery scoring all the other dogs. And you have people "competing" on the hunt test scores now.

If folks want to compete dog on dog, why would they not just enter a field trial and see what the dog and handler can really do. Like you said it is fun! 

My first experience at an AKC hunt test a guy asked me about my dog and his breeding. When I to him he was out of 8x GRHRCH MH, he smirked and said something about the only thing that matters is the MN. Little did I know at the time the MN is infinitely more attainable than GRHRCH. Nonetheless, I found out that day that they are some of the most competitive, non-competitive folks I'd ever seen.


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

captainjack said:


> That's what gets me. Every AKC hunt test has a group of people sitting in the gallery scoring all the other dogs. And you have people "competing" on the hunt test scores now.
> 
> If folks want to compete dog on dog, why would they not just enter a field trial and see what the dog and handler can really do. Like you said it is fun!
> 
> My first experience at an AKC hunt test a guy asked me about my dog and his breeding. When I to him he was out of 8x GRHRCH MH, he smirked and said something about the only thing that matters is the MN. Little did I know at the time the MN is infinitely more attainable than GRHRCH. Nonetheless, I found out that day that they are some of the most competitive, non-competitive folks I'd ever seen.


I do both but I can understand most peoples argument. Because they don't have access to grounds with the size and water to train, a 4 wheeler, half dozen wingers or a group, or cannot afford to send there dog with a pro. FT are not just a HT in a competition format. They are an entire different animal. Also if I have trained my dog for 3 years as a HT dog it is very difficult to switch over. You cannot call anyone out just because they don't want there one HT dog to be cannon fodder for the retired amateur that has 6 dogs, chassis mount and spends his summers in Minnesota or the guy that just picks his dog up off of Alan Pleasant's (or insert pro here) truck, runs him and puts him back. Cause the reality is that unless that dog is getting 3-5 FT set ups a week for good portions of the year they do not have a chance to place.


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Clint Watts said:


> Actually sounds like fun, not sad at all.


I think it's sad too. However, if only handler or owner can see scores who really knows if everyone is truthful?


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you guys are coming from and I respect it. You guys are competing in the NFL and critiquing a high school football game to put it in perspective. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, yet that's just me. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

SamLab1 said:


> 10 bitches to breed as soon as you get them titled!!!! I guess this answers why you asked why run after getting MH title. Some participate as a sport/hobby they enjoy, others try to make money riding the backs of those who do it for fun and put on the tests. Now I understand why you started this thread.


OK Sam Lab

Let me give you the financial side of this picture, since you feel so strongly in belief that I am solely invested here for a profit motive.
Get out your calculator:
Here goes, 
Original cost of dog $1,000
Vet bills and maintenance for 5 years ($100 for average vet bills per year and $1 per day in food) approx. $2500
Hunt test entry fees and travel expenses, and training to attain a MH very easily $8-10,000.
OFA, Cerf, EIC CNM on the bitch. Close to $1,000
EIC and CNM, and MCHIP on the pup $200 per pup, this litter 7 pups equals $1400
Vet expenses to remove dew claws and first two series of shots, est. $700
Puppy care for 8 weeks, many services do this for $250 per pup, est. $1750
Cost of Stud, in this case $1,000 to $2500
Cost to progesterone test and breed and board $1,000

Okay add it all up and then take into consideration "problems" Last litter had 7 pups, 5 males and 2 females. Females went for $1,000 and 4 of the males sold for $800, that's gross $5200, now the problem. 5th male had a cleft palate, first sugery 300 mile one way drive to Baton Rouge, Vet cost $2000, second sugery same vet same drive and same hotel, Vet this thime $800. Tomorrow marks 2 weeks since the second surgery and I believe there will need to be a 3rd surgery, again same Vet, same drive and same hotel.

Okay genius how much have I made, perhaps you should start breeding, oh I forgot to add the $35,000 expense in a state of the art whelping facility.
Thanks see you on the line and maybe you will introduce yourself this time.

The reason I started this post had nothing to do with breeding!


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Camo9244 said:


> The problem with this is that not all areas are the same..If you live in the deep south "Louisiana and Texas" you cant wait till the senior dogs get entered. Spring Master test fill in 3-5 min in most cases so if you are not setting at your PC and ready you will not run any!!!


If your dog already has a MH then keep training and put him in the Q


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## Wyldfire (Sep 24, 2003)

Terry,

While that is all interesting your original complaint seemed to be about not being able to get entered in Master Hunt test. What have you done this year to help fix the issue? Have you been on any hunt test committees, hunt test chairman or secretary or such? Volunteered to head up and organize a new event in your area? AKC has increased the number of events a club can hold. If people who are complaining about not being able enter would step up in clubs and sponsor new events the problem would be solved. So what have you done to help the issue?


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

i get what terry was saying. do yall think it is possible to mix up the flights at the hunt test and have master flights of dogs that already have a MH title and flights for dogs with SH needing passes? i bred once and was lucky that dew claw, shots, and progesterone wasnt near what terry paid but he is right on with other cost.


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

> OK Sam Lab
> 
> Let me give you the financial side of this picture, since you feel so strongly in belief that I am solely invested here for a profit motive.
> Get out your calculator:
> ...



Hope that is a misprint...................


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## canuckkiller (Apr 16, 2009)

phillip1119 said:


> Competition comes in many forms but will always rests in the eye of the beholder.


Notwithstanding Bill Tarrant, Richard Wolters, UKC, AKC, whoever, whatever, "it is in the eye of the beholder".

Bill Connor


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Todd Caswell said:


> Hope that is a misprint...................


no it is not,
custom cabinets, all tile in each whelping pen ,over 120 sq feet of Quartz counter tops, AC and Heat. Refrig and Microwave, Massive sink to wash and clean pups and an extra Bay if needed for a third litter or bathing dogs. 
This is my Dog Hospital and I am so tickled to have it.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Todd Caswell said:


> Hope that is a misprint...................


I have seen his whelping area, and it is nice. I wuld have guessed more than $35,000 to build it. I'm guessing the $35,000 does not include Terry's or his assistant Tanner's labor costs


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

Todd, i have seen some whelping facilities that cost more than this. alot of times its added on with a kennel but it gets exp quick.


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## Camo9244 (Jan 15, 2015)

DarrinGreene said:


> If your dog already has a MH then keep training and put him in the Q


Intending on doing so, but Q's do not get you Qualified to get Raped by the MNRC!


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

captainjack said:


> If folks want to compete dog on dog, why would they not just enter a field trial and see what the dog and handler can really do. Like you said it is fun!


Theoretically, of course - If I beat your ass every time I saw you, how long would you keep coming back? Therein lies the answer to your question... 

Top 4 - 8% place weekly in trials.

If you want to make HT competitive you still get to pass even if your friends "beat you" so all the scores are going to be relatively similar (above 7 average).

Participation trophies


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Camo9244 said:


> Intending on doing so, but Q's do not get you Qualified to get Raped by the MNRC!


I don't think anyone questions entering a MH if you're really going to qualify for and run the MN. It's taking up slots in "full" tests with dogs that are just playing for fun that's the rub, I think.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Terry is a smart business man or he would not be on 165 acres training, breeding and selling dogs for a living. I get the cost of breeding but the program supports the rest of the operation, so let's not be fooled into thinking it's not "profitable". It may not be profitable in and of itself but it is a loss leader to the rest of the operation where the money is made. Only a fool or an independently wealthy person would do it otherwise and Terry doesn't strike me either of those.

As for the "what have you done" question - careful what you ask a lot of pros are out there making significant contributions of land, time and labor to their local clubs. 

We've been down this road many times before. 

It comes down to sportsmanship and doing the right thing. If we all did that, we may still have a demand/supply problem but there wouldn't be all the conflict that goes with it.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Hmm I have 2 dogs (one an MH-one not), I run 2 dogs; also help at the event. If I'm going to the event, I just can't see not running both dogs (I actually enjoy running these things after all ) I'm not sure I'd really be worrying about my 2 dogs are holding spots from up and coming SH, I'd be more likely to worry about the peeps who are running 10+ MH dogs holding spots, and because of it too busy to help at the event. Nothing against them, that how they make their living. But if we're looking for ways to aid people getting in setting a limit on the number of dogs any particular handler can run (say 4) would help with that. As EE already allows a % of workers to get in early, not sure it would take much coding to limit # of dogs per handler; and then if it doesn't fill by a certain time allow all comers to enter. Added benefit that if we have more handlers running less dogs at the event we have more workers, also allows the stakes to move along, no waiting. Heck more workers could even allow you to not have to limit tests.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

paul young said:


> How sad is that?-Paul


Hey hey now a few people sitting around trying to decide who has a better dog is not sad it is a field trial....of course a couple of people with a friendly side wager was what probably led up to field trials. 
Of course these are very limited secret trials that you can only be in if you are close enough friends. 
Of course a side benefit
might be that they spend more time training because aren't training just to the standard but trying to make their dog the best it can be, just so their buddy has to buy them a beer. 
And I am sure they would run a FT if they could get the judges to place their dogs and not tell anyone else. 
And these are the type of people that were sharing a blind on the morning of the test to get some real hunting in and probably had a side bet on who would get the most ducks before the hunt test. 
It's not about tests or trials or ribbons, they think it is about people and dogs having fun. Prbably the type of people that invented Dog Blind Golf ( every whistle is a stroke, and not every "hole" can be made with a straight shot,and a dogleg can really be a dog leg )


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