# Hearing loss in gun dogs



## kims (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi,
I'm new to the list.
? any of you know of Labradors that have developed hearing loss due to years of repeated exposure to heavy overhead gunshot? Is this something that happens with some regularity??
thanks in advance.
Labrunner


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

No problem with mine! I dont seem to get to shoot that much:-x


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## golden dude (Oct 19, 2009)

It seems to happen with regularity to dogs with careless owners.(IMO)

Keeping your dog outside the blast cone by proper training. (both dog and Handler) is the best possible senario.

Steve


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## Chad Clagg (Jul 8, 2006)

I know of several dogs whose hearing has either gone away completely or been reduced considerably from gun fire.


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## Waterfwlr (Jul 14, 2009)

This may sound crazy, but is there any hearing protection out there for dogs or how else can hearing loss be avoided?


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## golden dude (Oct 19, 2009)

the risk of hearing loss can be reduced as much as possible by training the dog to stay in it's "place"(handler chooses "place" that is out of blast cone)

When upland hunting-teach dog to sit to flush, and be steady to shot and fall. This way there will be seperation of bird and dog.

Don't shoot birds right off the dog!

We owe our companions atleast that much!!

Steve


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## dr_dog_guy (May 25, 2003)

Between age (11.5) and a whole lotta birds, I sometimes have to touch Cutter when I come home to wake him up. He sleeps hard and doesn't hear so well anymore, so I'm in the door and out in the backyard before he knows it. Even the other dogs don't wake him up. 

I also have to be careful with my expectations in the field. He doesn't hear or see so well anymore, so when I get a whistle refusal its 98% of the time because he doesn't hear me. When this started a couople of years ago, I thought they were real refusals (to my shame). Sometimes I'll get what seems to be a no go on a mark because its long with a poor background and he just doesn't see it. 

So yes, gundogs are affected by shooting just like humans, and age can affect their eyes as well. Although he is a Golden and not a Lab.


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

Not a Labrador, but a Springer.

Together we shot an awful lot of woodpigeon from a blind; 3500 in just one fifteen month period alone. He lost a lot of his hearing as a result (I think). My own hearing was damaged in heavy industry but I'm sure shooting also had its part to play, so we made a grand pair.

"Isn't it windy today dear"?
"No, Thurdsay". 
"So am I, tea or coffee"?

Eug


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## Redgolden (Nov 21, 2008)

As said, hearing loss can be limited if you keep the dog aside from gunshots. In waterfowl or hunting with decoys and low-profile blind in the field, keep the dog on your side (and behind the mouth of the shotgun). In upland, the dog has to sit on a flush so you will shoot the bird away from the dog.

I don't think there are ear protections for the dogs... and at the same time, it could be more of a nuisance than help as the dog works with his sight, hearing and smell.


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## 1NarlyBar (Jul 10, 2008)

There is hearing protection available for dogs. MuttMuffs

I have been using them for two duck seasons, after seeing two local dogs lose there hearing within the first few years of their lives without any apparent medical problem. 

Not all dogs will appreciate the muffs but that is usually remedied with a trip to the skeet range. Doesn't take them long to realize the muffs make the repeated shots more tolerable. 

And yes you need to take them off before sending the dog for a retrieve. for two obvious reasons.


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## Jared77 (Oct 7, 2009)

Is having the dog behind you going to have his hearing? I found a great smaller boat for us to use. Was going to put the dog in the bow and shoot off the stern. Sit up and take 'em. I know he can see around me to mark, will this set up help keep his hearing sound? Safely out of the blast cone?

Thanks


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## Redgolden (Nov 21, 2008)

What I always cared of was having the dog away from the blast direction (or cone as you say). When I hunt in a canoe, I always take the shot on the sides as the dog sits in front of me.

So, I think that if you always keep your shot away from the dog's head, it's ok.


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## Pheasanttomeetyou (Jan 31, 2004)

golden dude said:


> It seems to happen with regularity to dogs with careless owners.(IMO)
> 
> Keeping your dog outside the blast cone by proper training. (both dog and Handler) is the best possible senario.





Redgolden said:


> What I always cared of was having the dog away from the blast direction (or cone as you say). When I hunt in a canoe, I always take the shot on the sides as the dog sits in front of me.
> 
> So, I think that if you always keep your shot away from the dog's head, it's ok.



I know a lot of dogs who have lost their hearing at a relatively young age.

That is the main reason why I will *NEVER* enter an HRC test. Those people who set up tests requiring the handler to shoot off a shot gun with the dog sitting next to them have *no respect* for the dogs' well being. 

Just say'in


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## Redgolden (Nov 21, 2008)

Pheasanttomeetyou said:


> I know a lot of dogs who have lost their hearing at a relatively young age.
> 
> That is the main reason why I will *NEVER* enter an HRC test. Those people who set up tests requiring the handler to shoot off a shot gun with the dog sitting next to them have *no respect* for the dogs' well being.
> 
> Just say'in


I don't know how HRC's tests are like... Are the dogs, in some way, in front of the canon's mouth ? If the dog is well on the side of his handler (so behind the canon's mouth), it doesn't seem dangerous (actually, we hunt that way).

As for the canoe hunting, I may have not explained myself correctly. With the dog sitting in front of me, I only take shots that are on the sides (so away from the dog's head).

For humans, we know about industrial deafness. Sustained noises from a certain db level causes it. If a dog is under the fire of many guns, shooting thousands of shells on top of its head, I do believe it can arm its hearing.


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## golden dude (Oct 19, 2009)

Pheasanttomeetyou said:


> I know a lot of dogs who have lost their hearing at a relatively young age.
> 
> That is the main reason why I will *NEVER* enter an HRC test. Those people who set up tests requiring the handler to shoot off a shot gun with the dog sitting next to them have *no respect* for the dogs' well being.
> 
> Just say'in


WHOA-WHOA-WHOA, You are either making a feeble attempt at sarcasim, or you know not about what you condem!!

HRC uses primer poppers, that do not hurt the dogs hearing. Besides the dogs are behind the front of the barrel-therfore out of the blast cone..

Go watch an Hrc test a little closer.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

> Between age (11.5) and a whole lotta birds, I sometimes have to touch Cutter when I come home to wake him up. He sleeps hard and doesn't hear so well anymore, so I'm in the door and out in the backyard before he knows it. Even the other dogs don't wake him up.
> 
> I also have to be careful with my expectations in the field. He doesn't hear or see so well anymore, so when I get a whistle refusal its 98% of the time because he doesn't hear me. When this started a couople of years ago, I thought they were real refusals (to my shame). Sometimes I'll get what seems to be a no go on a mark because its long with a poor background and he just doesn't see it.
> 
> So yes, gundogs are affected by shooting just like humans, and age can affect their eyes as well. Although he is a Golden and not a Lab.


Sounds like my 12.5 year old lab exactly. I didn't notice a signficant dropoff in her hearing until this year. Most of that is probably old age, but she was hunted around a fair amount.

If your dog creeps or is not steady, I would recommend tying them to a post in the blind where they will have to remain at your side or slightly behind. I have hammered in plenty of T-posts in the ground for my creeping old gal.


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## Waterfwlr (Jul 14, 2009)

golden dude said:


> WHOA-WHOA-WHOA, You are either making a feeble attempt at sarcasim, or you know not about what you condem!!
> 
> HRC uses primer poppers, that do not hurt the dogs hearing. Besides the dogs are behind the front of the barrel-therfore out of the blast cone..
> 
> Go watch an Hrc test a little closer.


Exactly. Didn't sound like a feeble attempt at sarcasm. It sounded more like someone that absolutely doesn't know what he is talking about.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

I often make a point of not defending hrc hunts in any way……
But having worked a few of them I can attest the bang of the hrc poppers are pathetically soft.
I can fart louder than an hrc popper.


.


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

Ken Bora said:


> I often make a point of not defending hrc hunts in any way……
> But having worked a few of them I can attest the bang of the hrc poppers are pathetically soft.
> I can fart louder than an hrc popper.
> 
> ...


What exactly do you dislike about HRC tests? I agree-almost anyone can fart louder than a popper..


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## Colonel Blimp (Jun 1, 2004)

> I can fart louder than an hrc popper.


Ken, I used to believe you knew a bit about retrievers, but now I wonder. Isn't it enough to endanger the dogs hearing? I can't see the value in compromising his sense of smell too.

You are a graduate of The Mel Brooks School of Canine Training perhaps?

Eug
;-)


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## SeniorCoot (Feb 26, 2008)

YUP! At 11 I just started to realize Gunther was getting as bad as me--I let him get about 30yds in front of me the other day after thinking he was getting poor on recall etc-- well I called him in my regular voice nada-then a bit louder-nada-then full voice and he turned and came imediately as taught--It's hard to see these great dogs start to go slower- hear less- have eye sight go a bit-- hey it's like me at 70. But he still hunts very well and now I will use E-Collar on low setting for recall in field.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Ken Bora said:


> I often make a point of not defending hrc hunts in any way……
> But having worked a few of them I can attest the bang of the hrc poppers are pathetically soft.
> I can fart louder than an hrc popper.


Now, that's scary.

Back when our club ran HRC (3 or 4 yrs ago) all the Region's clubs used Winchester FT blanks - TOO LOUD! I understand that they're pretty much all primer-only loads now. That still keeps the handler busy shucking hulls...

One of my old UH-HRCH/GMHR's and I are very hard of hearing now, but I don't know how much the "popper" loads contributed... blank pistols, retriever trainers, 12 ga blanks, Fox 40's, ... lots of things to protect young ears from.


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

golden dude said:


> HRC uses primer poppers, that do not hurt the dogs hearing.


Does HRC use poppers that produce less noise than a 209 primer?
A 209 primer produces 145 decibels. http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=e62d33db1053670e0eb8f46a1ec106d5
The Mayo Clinic lists the Injury Range beginning at 120 decibels. And hearing loss can begin from noises as low as 80-90 decibels.


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## golden dude (Oct 19, 2009)

Primer poppers are an empty hull with a 209 primer, but they make a lot less noise than a training pistol that shoots 209's. The noise from primer poppers reminds me of an old fashioned cap gun, and maybe not that loud.

Steve


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

I've stopped using 12 gauge shells while hunting with my dog.

Instead I purchased a sling shot.

Although, I'm starting to fear that the sound of a splash has a negative affect.

What should I do?


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Cheech and Chong just use weed... and their imaginations.


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## Beam (Jan 2, 2010)

Are some of you people for real? Obviously, I don't want to hurt my dog, noone on here does. I use a lot of discretion as to when to shoot and when to hold up. I don't like ringing my friends bell or the dog's bell. HOWEVER, judging by his reactions - I think he'd rather be sitting next to me in a duck blind, than snoozing in the kennel.

Let's not forget - these dogs were bred to retrieve birds, and most guys can't shoot ducks with bows and arrows.

Devil's advocate, my 11 year old hunted all 11 years of his life. His hearing was as sharp the last day as it was day one.

I won't hear of someone insinuating that I'm irresponsible because I enjoy WORKING my "MEAT DOG" (as one of you has so respectfully referred to him as) in a sport that he was bred for.

Take that crap to a PETA meeting.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Beam said:


> Are some of you people for real? Obviously, I don't want to hurt my dog, noone on here does. I use a lot of discretion as to when to shoot and when to hold up. I don't like ringing my friends bell or the dog's bell. HOWEVER, judging by his reactions - I think he'd rather be sitting next to me in a duck blind, than snoozing in the kennel.
> 
> Let's not forget - these dogs were bred to retrieve birds, and most guys can't shoot ducks with bows and arrows.
> 
> ...


Amen brother.


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## Waterfwlr (Jul 14, 2009)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I've stopped using 12 gauge shells while hunting with my dog.
> 
> Instead I purchased a sling shot.
> 
> ...


That's funny stuff right there.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Lilly shows some definite signs of deafness in recent years. I have found however that the Tri-Tronics hearing aid is VERY effective and almost immediately restores her hearing to near perfect.

Ain't technology grand regards

Bubba


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## redleg06 (Jan 28, 2008)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I've stopped using 12 gauge shells while hunting with my dog.
> 
> Instead I purchased a sling shot.
> 
> ...


You should stop participating in hunting your retriever...we owe our hunting companions that much at least...

In addition to no longer shooting over my gun dog, Ive also stopped allowing them to ride in boats for risk of falling out. Ive stopped hunting waterfowl on days that are colder than 50 degree's due to risk of hypothermia. I've stopped hunting in shallow water for risk shallow water hazards could possibly harm the dog and Ive stopped hunting deep water for fear of drowing the dog...

From here forward, I have decided to only hunt warm days in open fields using my sling shot....times are tough


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## SeniorCoot (Feb 26, 2008)

Buy a frisbee and join HSUS


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## red devil (Jan 4, 2003)

Pheasanttomeetyou said:


> That is the main reason why I will *NEVER* enter an HRC test. Those people who set up tests requiring the handler to shoot off a shot gun with the dog sitting next to them have *no respect* for the dogs' well being.
> 
> Just say'in


Ummm ... I'm really at a loss for words. I knew there was no cure for stupidity - but comments like this makes me believe that this poster is seriously in need of medical attention. I knew there was some reasons I didn't like some aspects of the other venues, wasn't sure what - thanx for clarifying the issue for me.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

SeniorCoot said:


> Buy a frisbee and join HSUS


What?

There really is a frisbee group?

I'm in.


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

There’s no question that gunfire causes hearing loss in dogs just like it does in humans but the only dog I’ve owned who was badly affected while he was still young enough for it to matter was my 1st “Hunt Test” dog. Like a lot of rookies, I was so eager to move on to the more exciting aspects of the game that I didn’t enforce his line manners sufficiently. He was an incorrigible creeper and by the time he was 10 was almost completely deaf. 

Because of that experience, I guess I’m one of the few people who believe that hunt tests should be more strict on that issue. I’ve often heard people denigrate a test as an “obedience test” after being thrown out for poor line manners.


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## SeniorCoot (Feb 26, 2008)

Poor line manners and Poor OB in general reflect on Owner/trainer very poorly.


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

SeniorCoot said:


> Poor line manners and Poor OB in general reflect on Owner/trainer very poorly.


I have to admit that I owned such a dog. 

I think the dog that crawls to the line on its belly looking like it is scared to death also reflects poorly on the owner/trainer. I have been able to fix my line manner problems but you will never rehab the belly crawler.

There are also FC's that have such line manner issues trained by very good owners/trainers.

These kind of blanket statements are always an irritation.
Mark L.


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