# Laryngeal Paralysis in Labrador Retrievers



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Many of you with old dogs have dealt with this problem, it is common in older large breed dogs. Early signs include, gagging, throat clearing, hacking cough, and occasional wretching.

My Kweezy, who will be 12 May 30, has been mildly affected for more than a year, indeed I have had to be careful roading her, especially in hot weather. I had pretty much resigned myself to let her live with it and just not hunt her much but last week for the first time she made a whistling noise when she was breathing. I was able to open her mouth and pull her tongue out and visualize her larynx which had 2 flaccid vocal folds obstructing her airway.

Severly affected dogs have loud forceful respiration and sometimes almost total airway obstruction. In the normal respiratory cycle when inhalation occurs a laryngeal muscle contracts and opens the airway. Laryngeal paralysis does not allow this to happen and the dog has to inhale against an obstructed airway. Symptoms are typically worse in hot weather and dogs can die from airway obstruction and laryngeal edema.

After discussions with several "dog family members" and sleeping on it I decided it was time the have laryngeal tie-back surgery performed. This procedure is generally done on one side and permanently pulls the arytenoid cartilage to the side creating an open airway. The down side is that dogs are more susceptible to aspiration pneumonia (about 20% of dogs who have had the surgery may develop aspiration problems) but these are generally controlled with antibiotics and only a very small percentage are serious.

Since I was going to be in Auburn last week for a social visit we scheduled her for surgery. Last Wednesday Dr. David Tillson performed a unilateral laryngeal tie back procedure at the small animal clinic, College of Veterinary Medicine, Auburn University. Kweezy spent the night in the clinic in the capable hands of Dr. Tillson's senior veterinary students beginning their clinical year. I picked her up Thursday afternoon and the effect is dramatic. 

She is on exercise restriction until the surgical site has healed but I could not be happier with the outcome.

A few interesting facts about laryngeal paralysis:

1. It has been stated that laryngeal paralysis can be secondary to low thyroid gland function. In my experience this has never been the case.
2. It has been theorized that laryngeal paralysis is the result of a neuropathy of the nerves supplying the larynx.
3. A significant percentage of dogs with laryngeal paralysis are affected with megaesophagus which indicates a more generalized neuropathy.
4. There is some recent thinking that the posterior weakness seen in old dogs may also be linked to this more generalized neuropathy.

Kweezy's prospects for pheasant season look pretty good now....

thanks Dr. Tillson et al...


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

EdA said:


> Many of you with old dogs have dealt with this problem, it is common in older large breed dogs. Early signs include, gagging, throat clearing,* hacking cough*, and *occasional wretching*.


Dr. Ed,

Glad to hear Kweezy's pheasant future looks bright!

Your post is timely as we have an appointment with our vet in a few hours, but thought I would ask. Flash is shwoing the above symptom a lot lately. I would say it's going on about 4-6 months, give or take. But he hacks a couple times in a row, sounds like he is going to vommit, but never does. We are not sure what it might be, but it has us concerned. Other than that he is a healthy as can be. We had his blood work redone about a month ago after his obstruction surgery just to verify his kidney functions and no mention of any issues. The is no obvious trigger for the hacking, its random and usually only a couple hacks in a row.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Lainee


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

FOM said:


> Dr. Ed,
> 
> Glad to hear Kweezy's pheasant future looks bright!
> 
> ...


laryngeal paralysis is certainly on the differential diagnosis list and should always be in an older dog exhibiting those symptoms 

the definitive test for laryngeal paralysis is to give them a respiratory stimulant (Dopram) under anesthesia and directly view the larynx during inspiration and expiration


----------



## Guest (May 24, 2010)

Thanks for the great information. I know a few other people have had it done and were relieved with the results. Glad Kweezy is doing so well...


----------



## LokiMeister (Jan 15, 2010)

Loki had his done at the end of March and while he is improved he is getting reflux, I believe, and has become a grazer. And I mean, he is competing with the cows for grass!! Medication was prescribed, one of the three was Pepcid and I don't remember the other two, and he improved but once he came off it, he was back to grazing. He goes to see the internist at Veterinary Specialty in Madison, WI (they did the surgery) to see what is going on. The clearing of the throat has not improved.

The surgeon told me that of all the dogs that end up getting this affliction, 70 to 80% are Labrador Retrievers of them.

This early hot and humid weather make for a frustrated Loki.


----------



## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

My first lab, Winnie, had LP, as did a couple of her offspring. I believe 2 of the offspring had tieback and one may have had the one where they just cut (not recommended by the folks on the LP list)-- and she didn't do well at all. I didn't do the surgery w/ Winnie and instead just managed it as well as possible, but I always dreaded her getting excited as it was enough to take her down into a "blue" state. Another friend is now dealing w/ her 3 rd generation of LP in her old girl. 

Winnie was 13.5 when I put her to sleep, so I really can't complain much. She did get fecal incontinent that last year. I put her daughter Gala on cholodin which is a supplement that is supposed to help w/ neuro health. Gala never got much LP past the higher pitch bark and a little panting/huffing and never had incontinence issues. She lived to 14 + 3 mos when a splenic tumor did her in. No thyroid or megaesophagus issues here but my friend's dog is a bit low.

I'm glad Kweezy is doing well post op. Sometimes I wish I had done the surgery on Winnie as it was really hard to watch her episodes.


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Glad Queezy is doing well with the UTB.

My old guy "Diesel" (age 12) also had the tieback in Feb and is doing really well. 

I'm concerned about the possibility of aspirating dust or a small particle from his kibble, so all of his meals are presoaked for approx 12 hours. He also receives famotidine (generic for pepcid) with each meal to minimize reflux.

Lainee, the symptoms you described sound exaclty like what we saw/heard with Diesel. I encourage anyone with a dog affected by laryngeal paralysis to consult with a board certified surgeon who does procedure on a frequent basis. Sometimes the symptoms start slowly than get worse in a hurry. I'm sure that Diesel would have experienced a breathing crisis due to the summer heat by now if we hadn't taken action while the weather was still cool.

There seems to be a genetic component to this as Diesel's mother and at least one sibling died from untreated LP.


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

jeff t. said:


> I'm concerned about the possibility of aspirating dust or a small particle from his kibble, .


Interesting, my first question to Dr. Tillson, "should I alter her feeding in any way". His only recommendation was for immediately post surgery, after that feed as normal. I feed Euk Premium Performance dry to all of my dogs and I have been feeding her this way for 5 days now with no noticeable issues. Indeed I think aspiration is much less likely than if food is soft, also when swallowing the epiglottis closes the larynx and trachea. The threat of aspiration is greater from regurgitation or vomiting than it is from regular swallowing. This is not to suggest that you should change what works for you but only to point out that it probably does not matter one way or the other.


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

EdA said:


> Interesting, my first question to Dr. Tillson, "should I alter her feeding in any way". His only recommendation was for immediately post surgery, after that feed as normal. I feed Euk Premium Performance dry to all of my dogs and I have been feeding her this way for 5 days now with no noticeable issues. Indeed I think aspiration is much less likely than if food is soft, also when swallowing the epiglottis closes the larynx and trachea. The threat of aspiration is greater from regurgitation or vomiting than it is from regular swallowing. This is not to suggest that you should change what works for you but only to point out that it probably does not matter one way or the other.


Thanks for the info re the epiglottis and swallowing.

Did you elevate the food bowl? The possibility of aspiration pneumonia weighed heavily in the first few weeks post surgery. I timed Diesel's breathing rate at rest every night and took his temp 2x per day for the first couple of weeks so that I might catch AP as soon as it started to develop. After an adjustment period of getting used to his new noises, we are much more relaxed. 

Are you letting Kweezy swim?


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

jeff t. said:


> Thanks for the info re the epiglottis and swallowing.
> 
> Did you elevate the food bowl? The possibility of aspiration pneumonia weighed heavily in the first few weeks post surgery. I timed Diesel's breathing rate at rest every night and took his temp 2x per day for the first couple of weeks so that I might catch AP as soon as it started to develop. After an adjustment period of getting used to his new noises, we are much more relaxed.
> 
> Are you letting Kweezy swim?


I have not elevated the food bowl, she still gags/clears her throat occassionally

I am restricting her activity until soft tissue healing is complete, some surgeons are using absorbable suture for the tie back which indicates that scar tissue formation is the ultimate reason that the repair is permanent not that the suture lasts forever but good healing is desirable before any increase in activity is allowed.

I will start taking her for our morning walks next week when she can free roam and swim if she chooses


----------



## LokiMeister (Jan 15, 2010)

EdA said:


> I have not elevated the food bowl, she still gags/clears her throat occassionally
> 
> I am restricting her activity until soft tissue healing is complete, some surgeons are using absorbable suture for the tie back which indicates that scar tissue formation is the ultimate reason that the repair is permanent not that the suture lasts forever but good healing is desirable before any increase in activity is allowed.
> 
> I will start taking her for our morning walks next week when she can free roam and swim if she chooses


With Loki, I was told outside only to air and only on a leash for the first month. After that (ie. now), we are able to ramp up activity.


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

EdA said:


> I will start taking her for our morning walks next week when she can free roam and swim if she chooses


Some vets advise not to let them swim (concerned about aspirating pond water). 

My view is that the purpose of the surgery was to let Diesel continue to have a good quality of life. Part of that is allowing him to be a dog and to swim if he feels like it. So we let him get in the water and wade around...which he loves to do.


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

jeff t. said:


> Some vets advise not to let them swim (concerned about aspirating pond water).
> 
> My view is that the purpose of the surgery was to let Diesel continue to have a good quality of life. Part of that is allowing him to be a dog and to swim if he feels like it. So we let him get in the water and wade around...which he loves to do.


We agree on that 100%, if the point is for the dog to live a totally restricted life why bother with surgery. 

Kweezy has given us much, I am going to try to give her the best quality of life with the fewest restrictions that I can for the time she has left and that includes swimming and pheasant hunting. She will have some physical limitations because of her age and her hunting will be confined to light cover and cool weather, her 2 young sons can do the dirty work.


----------



## SCOTT C. (Oct 20, 2004)

Is this something that only affects olded dogs or can young healthy dogs have a problem with this?


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

SCOTT C. said:


> Is this something that only affects olded dogs or can young healthy dogs have a problem with this?


 Usually older dogs, but sometimes young animals and occasionally puppies.


----------



## Black Bart (Jan 10, 2003)

I had an old dog a few years back that had LP. He had tie-back surgery at the age of 12-1/2 and lived another 4 years without a care in the world. It was the best thing I ever did for him. He never suffered any setbacks after the surgery and went back to eating the things he loved, for example, bones, treats, pretty much anything really (he was a Lab after all). He could continue swimming and just generally enjoy the rest of his life.

He didn't suffer with mega oesophagus (sp?) but I know quite a few do but he did have problems with his rear end. He was born with bad hips so it's hard to say whether that was the cause or if it was neurological.

LP is a progressive disease so it may be kept under control for a while but will eventually become life threatening.

The surgery was expensive but ended up being the best money I ever spent.


----------



## Vicki Worthington (Jul 9, 2004)

My Pitch suffered from laryngeal parylasis as well. We did the tie-back procedure when he was about 12. He lived well into his 14th year--misssed 15 by about 2 months! He did suffer from an underactive thyroid & was on soloxine nearly all his life. His bark was a raspy, wierd sound after the tie-back, but he was a pretty happy dog that could breathe freely afterward. We did not alter his feeding regimine--ProPlan with water for the remainder of his years. We never had a problem with aspiration.


----------



## pam ingham (May 3, 2010)

Saw the Kweezy B at Ed's office today - the surgery took away years- in the good way - like a 'face lift' might in a human. 

All whom Kweezy has touched are so happy that she is going to be around a little longer - almost as happy as when she retired from trials- she is considered one of the most remarkable markers ever - this from people who have been around a very long time (shan't mention names) and seen some of the best! Long live Kweezy B! And Ed will have to explain where the B comes from - I don't have a clue. But it probably has something to do with the unwritten Honcho story!


----------



## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

Glad to hear that Kweezy B is doing well after surgery! She is special and we hope she lives for a long, long time. Ann & Bob


----------



## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

Thanks Dr Ed for the great info on LP. Glad Kweezy is doing so well. I have a guestion about LP I think my 14 year old lab is showing symptoms of LP. Had his first episode of vomiting a few days ago. He has done some gaging and breathing heavily just before bedtime while in the house and cool. I am wondering if you would advise surgery at 14 years? He is on Soloxine and has been for years. I will be going to Vet next week for his yearly check up. Thanks in advance.


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Annette said:


> Thanks Dr Ed for the great info on LP. Glad Kweezy is doing so well. I have a guestion about LP I think my 14 year old lab is showing symptoms of LP. Had his first episode of vomiting a few days ago. He has done some gaging and breathing heavily just before bedtime while in the house and cool. I am wondering if you would advise surgery at 14 years? He is on Soloxine and has been for years. I will be going to Vet next week for his yearly check up. Thanks in advance.


For me, for her, it was a quality of life issue. She has provided me with 3 wonderful sons who make me very happy and allowing her to be active and happy was important to all who love her (which includes a significant group of people) from those who experienced the thrill of running her in competition to my technicians at work.

Kweezy will be 12 Sunday yet she looks and acts more like a 7 or 8 year old. She loves roading with the 4 wheeler and pheasant hunting, 2 things she would not be able to do with her breathing problems. Old sedentary dogs who sleep 23 hours, eat and go outside for short periods may not be much affected and certainly some have other medical issues all of which contribute to the quality of their lives.

For Kweezy it was the right thing to do whether she lives to be 13 or 16 1/2 like her mother did. 

I talked to the most important people in her life (and mine too) and discussed the options (do nothing, euthanasia, or surgery) then I slept on it one night as everyone seemed the believe that I would ultimately make the correct decision. When I awoke the following morning I knew there was no question of my decision and she and I (and her fan club) are happy that we made that decision. We are both eagerly anticipating October in South Dakota......

Ultimately as dog owners we must make end of life decisions that only we can make as third parties do not possess the information necessary to make the best decision. After 40 years of counseling owners my best advice to them is that when the time comes you and only you will know.

Good luck with you your old guy, there is something very special about them when they get old, perhaps it is a glimpse of our own mortality.......


----------



## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

Thanks for you reply Dr Ed. I just wondered if surgery for a 14 year old would endanger his life. If Spring was 12 and he got to the point of problems I would have the surgery. I think at this point I will see if it progresses. I have had to end it for dogs in the past and will know when the time comes. In your case Kweezy had much to gain. It is never easy and hopefully something else will suddenly take Spring amd I will not have to make that decision. Thanks you again .
Marie


----------



## Sharon van der Lee (May 25, 2004)

EdA said:


> 3. A significant percentage of dogs with laryngeal paralysis are affected with megaesophagus which indicates a more generalized neuropathy.
> 4. There is some recent thinking that the posterior weakness seen in old dogs may also be linked to this more generalized neuropathy.


We did not have the good fortune that you had Ed. Fly was not properly diagnosed with ME prior to her tie-back surgery in September and we have been dealing with many crises since then. She was tested for MG, the issue which I think you reference in point 4 above.

This is a cruel disease for our older dogs. Between her regurg episodes, she has a good quality of life. Fly is being fed three times a day in a Bailey Chair, nebulized twice a day. Sometimes it seems even that is not enough. She has had three bouts of AP that have been dealt with. Now dealing with resistances to antibiotics, because she has been given so many. Her daily deal is antacids, thyroid medication and Cerenia when we can give it to her. Used to be on metochlopromide, but think that drug has gotten to be too much for her.

Right now, she is having a "good" day, so we thank our lucky stars and carry on hoping for the best tomorrow.

Sharon


----------



## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

Sharon I am sorry to hear that Fly is having such a rough time. I hope things improve.
Marie


----------



## Sharon van der Lee (May 25, 2004)

Thanks Marie. We are coping with this as best we can and still feel she has a good quality of life, otherwise we would be making that hard decision.

Sharon


----------



## Lonny Taylor (Jun 22, 2004)

Wow!!....You folks just answered alot of questions for me. Darth - my 13 year old now retired MH has been having alot of these symptoms for over a year including regurgitating his food. I have found feeding him smaller amounts stops this most of the time. The yaking is all the time. I was told by one of my vets that there was nothing I could do about it so I have just managed as best we could with him. Unfortunatley at the Master National last year with the humidity of Texas prior to the the event made his last run very rough. I will look into this surgery for around here but I am afraid that simple economics will be my barrier on proceeding with this procedure. As most of you know I am raising 4 kids by myself and I do not have alot of extra cash for this kind of thing. It is tough considering all the great years the old man has given me. I hope this is not a genetic pass down but I have not noticed it with all his kids, grandkids & great grandkids. Thank you for the great info.

LT


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Michigan State University is conducting a study on esophageal function as it relates to laryngeal paralysis and the likelihood of aspiration pneumonia.

What did the research show? 

Esophageal function was significantly worse in dogs with laryngeal paralysis compared to the control dogs.
Dogs that developed aspiration pneumonia during the study period had worse esophageal function than dogs that did not experience aspiration pneumonia.
Unlike the esophagram, neither neurologic status nor history of regurgitation appeared to be accurate predictors of likelihood of aspiration pneumonia.
The data showed that all dogs with laryngeal paralysis developed neurological signs by the end of the study. This is highly suggestive of a progressive neuropathy in dogs with laryngeal paralysis.
If I am reading this correctly, it appears that the esophageal function test may be a predictor when deciding whether a dog is a good candidate for surgery.

It also appears that it tends to confirm that dogs with laryngeal paralysis have a progressive neurological disease that eventually leads to progressive weakness in the limbs, exercise intolerance, high-steppage pelvic-limb gait, a loss or change in the pitch of the bark, and difficulty breathing.

More info on the study is available here


----------



## Sharon van der Lee (May 25, 2004)

Lonny Taylor said:


> Wow!!....You folks just answered alot of questions for me. Darth - my 13 year old now retired MH has been having alot of these symptoms for over a year including regurgitating his food. I have found feeding him smaller amounts stops this most of the time. The yaking is all the time. I was told by one of my vets that there was nothing I could do about it so I have just managed as best we could with him. Unfortunatley at the Master National last year with the humidity of Texas prior to the the event made his last run very rough. I will look into this surgery for around here but I am afraid that simple economics will be my barrier on proceeding with this procedure. As most of you know I am raising 4 kids by myself and I do not have alot of extra cash for this kind of thing. It is tough considering all the great years the old man has given me. I hope this is not a genetic pass down but I have not noticed it with all his kids, grandkids & great grandkids. Thank you for the great info.
> 
> LT


Lonny,
Please discuss with your veterinarian the merits of doing the surgery for LP if ME is a known factor. There is a much higher risk of AP due to the regurgitation, the surgery opens the airway permanently. This is why AP is problem with ME/LP dogs.

Fly was x-rayed pre-op and it appeared her esophagus was normal, which is why they proceeded with the surgery. After the surgery, her esophagus was completely dilated and did not recover. In hindsight, we should have pursued the regurg issue more than the coughing/breathing to get a proper diagnosis. Vets don't normally look for ME, so it really has to be pushed by the client.

Sharon


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Kweezy has far exceeded my expectations. She celebrated her 12th birthday by going for a 40 minute free walk and swim with me yesterday morning. 

She gags/clears her throat occasionally but otherwise is symptom free.


----------



## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

I am so grateful for this thread, & previous ones by folks who have had experience w/ LP surgery in geriatric dogs.

how timely--when Dr. Ed 1st posted I was about to take our 13 y.o. Chessie Dancer in to specialists at OVC in guelph for an exam to determine if she was a good candidate for surgery. She is in super shape (a nice side blessing of pre-op tests show she has basically no older-dog issues, other than a mild heart murmur less than a year present), roads w/ the pack every day, & has had LP symptoms for 2 yrs--they got worse this spring & Forum threads convinced me to go for surgery.

She's been post-op for 5 days, doing very well, but I still have questions as to how conservative to be w/ food, swimming, etc. She is actually doing a bit more throat-clearing than she did before surgery, & I was thoroughly scared by the docs at OVC as to the dangers of AP: would love to get updates from you Ed, & others w/ recent surgery, as to how your dogs do as they return to "normal" life. As w/ Kweezy, Dancer has given us so much, & has had a terrific career: most of her pups were QAA, & she is the dam of SWeetie (Am wins both sides of the border) & AFC Fannie.

She thinks it's time to eat now--gotta go!

Connie


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Connie Swanson said:


> She's been post-op for 5 days, doing very well, but I still have questions as to how conservative to be w/ food, swimming, etc.


My approach was to restrict her until post surgical healing was complete (about 2 weeks) and then to let her resume some of her normal activity, (that was why I had the surgery done). Dr. Tillson advised feeding canned dog food formed into golf ball sized meat balls for the first few days. I followed that advice and then after 3 or 4 days I resumed her normal diet Eukanuba Premium Performance which I feed dry and she has done very well. 

After a few days she seemed to be gagging and clearing her throat a bit more than she did immediately post op so I initiated Cephalexin 500 mg twice daily and that has resolved. 

The surgeons are understandably conservative and have little feedback from dogs who are doing well and resumed a more or less normal life.


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

EdA said:


> laryngeal paralysis is certainly on the differential diagnosis list and should always be in an older dog exhibiting those symptoms
> 
> the definitive test for laryngeal paralysis is to give them a respiratory stimulant (Dopram) under anesthesia and directly view the larynx during inspiration and expiration


I have another appointment with the Vet tomorrow, the last visit Flash was not having issues breathing before/after a coughing attack, but last night he woke me coughing and I could hear him gasping for air. Reminded me of what I sound like when I'm suffering from an asthma attack. So off to the Vet and I'm going to ask them to do the test you mentioned. My question is what's really involved? Will they knock him out completely? If they determine it's LP will they be able to tell he is a canidate for tie back? Will they be able to do it then or will I have to wait? 

FOM


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

FOM said:


> I have another appointment with the Vet tomorrow, the last visit Flash was not having issues breathing before/after a coughing attack, but last night he woke me coughing and I could hear him gasping for air. Reminded me of what I sound like when I'm suffering from an asthma attack. So off to the Vet and I'm going to ask them to do the test you mentioned. My question is what's really involved? Will they knock him out completely? If they determine it's LP will they be able to tell he is a canidate for tie back? Will they be able to do it then or will I have to wait?
> 
> FOM


google reverse sneeze in dogs and watch the video to make sure it's not that

presurgical workup would include CBC, blood chemistry profile, T4, FT4, TSH, and chest xrays

if the presumptive diagnosis is laryngeal paralysis they will do the dopram test prior to surgery after the patient is anesthetized


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Nope not reverse sneezing, he does that every so often, I asked you about that a few years ago 

He is actually acting like he is going to throw up, but never does. Once he stops gagging I could hear him gasping for air, as if something was catching in his throat. Exhaling he would make a poofing sound and inhaling he would gasp.

Could it be allergies?

The Vet last time said if it doesn't go away that we should consider putting him on a course of predizone (sp?) and an something else (I can't recall). Then see if it improves. I'd prefer not to have to do surgery.

Silly dogs....sometimes I wished they could talk so they could tell me what's wrong with them!


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

FOM said:


> Nope not reverse sneezing, he does that every so often, I asked you about that a few years ago
> 
> He is actually acting like he is going to throw up, but never does. Once he stops gagging I could hear him gasping for air, as if something was catching in his throat. Exhaling he would make a poofing sound and inhaling he would gasp.
> 
> ...


at the minimum I would xray his chest and neck and do an upper airway exam for growths or laryngeal strictures


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

EdA said:


> at the minimum I would xray his chest and neck and do an upper airway exam for growths or laryngeal strictures


Okie dokie....I'll keep you posted on what we end up doing. I'm of the mind set to skip the round of predizone and do the diagnostic tests for LP and xrays for growths and let's cut to the chase...is it or isn't it LP? Then we can figure out where to go from there.....

Thanks for your time....you are an invaluable resource to RTF.

FOM


----------



## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

FOM;
Thanks for your time....you are an invaluable resource to RTF.
FOM[/QUOTE said:


> A big AMEN to that.
> Good luck on your older fella, Lainee.


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

There is a Laryngeal Paralysis email discussion group on Yahoo at 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/

Lots of good information there, files with info on treatment considerations, how to select a competent surgeon, pre and post operative guidelines, etc.

I recommend it for anyone owning a dog with symptoms of laryngeal paralysis.


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

We are doing the xrays this morning, will do the throat testing early next week to identify for sure it's LP at the same time of a dental (he has a tooth which needs to be pulled). Then will consult with specialist here in town. My vet feels it is LP, too but since he needs a tooth pulled figured we will confirm it then. Can't do it today, lack of schedule for him. He also feels at this time that it is not severe enough for tie-back surgery, but we will still consult the specialist for other options.


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

The chest xrays show some "doughnuts" as my vet calls them in the lungs, he says it does indicate some diteriation (sp) of lung function, but nothing jumped out as tumors. We are sending the xrays to a radiologist for a complete review.


----------



## 2labs (Dec 10, 2003)

FOM,
Give my best to flash and hang in there. Zak is in the same boat but would not come out of the anestesia.  We are doing the best we can to make him comfortable and restrict his movement. Thinking of you.

Dave


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

2labs said:


> FOM,
> Give my best to flash and hang in there. Zak is in the same boat but would not come out of the anestesia. We are doing the best we can to make him comfortable and restrict his movement. Thinking of you.
> 
> Dave


Dave,

Please give Zak a hug for me....I can still remember the first day I met the big old lug! Those were the days....oh the memories! I keep you and Zak in my prayers, too.

Lainee and Flash


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Flash went in on Thursday to have a needed tooth extracted, they did the test Dr. Ed suggested....and it showed that he has issue with the left side but not the right side. Our Vet for now says surgery is not absolutely needed right now and wants to take the wait and see if the other flap starts to show signs of LarPar. 

David and I have been discussing what to do. If we do the surgery now, Flash is younger and 'healthier' and only one side would be tied back, but knowing down the road we might need to do a second surgery to tie the other flap back.

If we wait until down the road, he might be considerably older and not as healthy, maybe even to the point that surgery wouldn't be a wise decission. 

Right now his quality of life isn't hampered to the point that I'm freaking out nor is it causing him any great stress. So I'm not sure what to do....yes he is breathing heavier at times and is hacking every so often...my gut says to go ahead and get the one side tied back and cross the bridge with the 2nd flap when/if it ever becomes an issue. 

Thoughts?

I have a follow up appointment with my Vet in a week to check on the socket where the tooth was pulled. I'm leaning toward at least making an appointment with the specialist he recommended and consult with her.

Lainee


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

FOM said:


> Flash went in on Thursday to have a needed tooth extracted, they did the test Dr. Ed suggested....and it showed that he has issue with the left side but not the right side. Our Vet for now says surgery is not absolutely needed right now and wants to take the wait and see if the other flap starts to show signs of LarPar.
> 
> David and I have been discussing what to do. If we do the surgery now, Flash is younger and 'healthier' and only one side would be tied back, but knowing down the road we might need to do a second surgery to tie the other flap back.
> 
> ...


Lainee,

Even when both sides are paralyzed (as was the case with my Diesel), only one side is tied back to provide a partial fix. It is my understanding that it is bad to tie back both sides due to the risk of aspiration pneumonia. 

I recomment seeing the specialist now so that you at least have a plan for the future when his breathing issues get worse.


----------



## LokiMeister (Jan 15, 2010)

According to the info I have, they would never do a double, even later.


----------



## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> I'm leaning toward at least making an appointment with the specialist he recommended and consult with her.


This is the way I'd lean.


----------



## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

Looking forward to hearing what the specialist has to say. I have one in the same boat. 12 years old with one side LP.


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

Again, I encourage anyone with questions about laryngeal paralysis to join the yahoo group dedicated to that subject at 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/

Once you join the group, you can get access to extensive information on the subject, F.A.Q on surgical and non surgical options, recommendations for surgeons, detailed info on the tie back procedure and real world experience of others who have walked this path with their dogs.


----------



## Connie Swanson (May 31, 2005)

I would encourage you not to wait, but also visit the yahoo LP group. Dancer, our 13 y.o. chessie, is almost 2 wks post-op & doing very well. The extensive pre-op testing was worth the surgery alone, as it showed us what kind of shape all her systems are in; terrific for an older matron!

Our specialists were great, but the LP Group really gives you much more info, especially pointing out the dangers of reflux issues for LP surgery: something that was not made very clear to me by my folks (fortunately not an issue for Dancer). also, i wish I had taken more seriously the need to keep her quiet for 2 wks: she has a seroma (sp?) which is common but probably avoidable if you keep your dog from seeking out & murdering baby robins the 2nd day after surgery!

my main reason for encouraging you to consider the surgery now is that I am delighted & surprised by how great Dancer is obviously feeling; she was in excellent shape & I did not think her LP was affecting her terribly (just getting enough worse that I could see her slowing down), but she is so much better & more puppyish (hard to keep from racing around) now, that I realize it affected her more than i thought.

Quite an improvement in quality of life!

Connie


----------



## Katie Minor (Sep 19, 2005)

Do Labradors ever develop a young onset LP along with gait abnormalities? I ask, because we have recently identified a mutation in Leonbergers that results in both clinical signs of LP, as well as a hitched high-stepping gait. 

Visit our Leonberger Polyneuropathy page for more info, and a video of affected dogs:

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickelson/lab/ipn/home.html


Katie Minor

University of Minnesota


----------



## Cappy_TX (Jan 6, 2003)

Sunnyview's Captain Cork has been retired. Laryngeal Paralysis has ended Cappy's 11 season long hunting career. He'll probably be undergoing surgery within the next two weeks that should make breathing and eating much less of a challenge for him. Because the opening flaps to the larynx will be pinned back to assist his breathing, he'll no longer be able to instinctively close them to prevent water, seeds, etc from entering into his lungs when hunting or even running around outdoors here at home in other than the mowed lawn areas. 

During Cappy's career he retrieved well over 1,500 ducks, geese and upland birds while hunting. In addition to those, he's retrieved countless others during training. Cappy has been that "one in a lifetime" dawg that everyone should experience. Of the nine that I've owned and trained, he has been the most special to me. The proverbial kindred spirit. In addition, he was best friend to Duke our Llewellin Setter, and with 6 year old Remi who learned everything she knows about hunting from Cappy. For the past six months he's been Rusty's mentor and big buddy.

Cappy's very first retrieves in March of 2000 at age 3 months.



















An aging eleven year old Cappy last January, on the final day of season, looking wistfully skyward for more birds.










His final retrieve was on Saturday, September 11th, when he picked up a Teal here at home and struggled to make the 30 yard return back to me.










Thanks for the almost 12 years of friendship, devotion and 110% effort you gave at all times as a hunting companion. Daddy loves you son and wants you better very soon, we all still need you.

Update a few days later ...

Had a long talk with the surgeon at the Veterinary Surgical Center who would be doing Cappy's LP surgery. Although they are a referral only service, he had seen Cappy for a left rear leg problem in 2006 therefore they already had some of his records. The surgeon has an older Lab and a Golden so he relates well to Cappy.

I explained that not long after season ended last January after Cappy turned 11, he underwent mast cell cancer surgery. The tumor on his right front shoulder area was removed with quite wide margins. The loss of tissue and some underlying muscle made another season this year questionable. Being the trooper he has always been, Cappy still wanted to train with Remi and the new pup every morning this spring.

When he was strong enough in early April, he began running 3-4 30 yards marks on the lawn and nearby training pond each morning. By late May he was back up to 6 or 7 and out to 50-60 yards. He then started showing signs of respiratory difficulties that he first displayed last November. He'd hack when winded and sometimes gagged when making a water retrieve. I misread that as a lung or upper respiratory problem.

He had three different sets of X-rays over the six months since last fall and all came back clear. I'm not blaming the vet even though they missed the correct diagnosis. Nothing could have been done differently if they had caught the real problem earlier (other than save me some money for 2nd and 3rd unneeded X-rays).

Cappy KNEW something wasn't right and for the past 2 months as he's often been content to sit next to me in the morning while I ran Remi and Rusty through their morning routines. Even using live pigeons that didn't stimulate him much and this time last year he would have crashed through barbed wire to get at them. I had hoped he could tag along and make some easy short retrieves this season. But now the danger of taking water or debris into his lungs is just too high so he'll be in charge of posing for post-hunt pics at home this season.

Having explained all of that, the vet I spoke with hit me with some sobering facts to consider before we go forward with the surgery. The mortality rate for large breed (like Labs) dawgs over 8 years of age is around 30% during or following surgery. By Cappy's age 12, the rate increases to approximately 50%, including for dawgs in otherwise good health. I'm now having strong 2nd thoughts whether to have Cappy undergo the surgery or not. His breathing is NOT so labored as to be threatening to him and as long as he doesn't go in water or grass taller than ankle deep, there's not much chance of his ingesting anything into his lungs. He'll be a "house dog" with very moderate outdoor activities. We're going to sleep on this for awhile longer and seek opinions from owners and vets more experienced with this situation in older Labs.


----------



## msdaisey (May 13, 2004)

I lost Crunch, my AA yellow dog on September 1 because of LP. We had put off the surgery for the same reasons, but now, I wish I had gone ahead with it. He went into distress while I was at work, and didn't make it to the vet once I went home. 

He was twelve, but still nothing but a muscle and still a nutcase (those of you who have seen him know what I am talking about). He was in great shape, and I should never have waited. I am so sorry, Crunchdog.


----------



## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

msdaisey said:


> I lost Crunch, my AA yellow dog on September 1 because of LP. We had put off the surgery for the same reasons, but now, I wish I had gone ahead with it. He went into distress while I was at work, and didn't make it to the vet once I went home.
> 
> He was twelve, but still nothing but a muscle and still a nutcase (those of you who have seen him know what I am talking about). He was in great shape, and I should never have waited. I am so sorry, Crunchdog.


Sondra,

Your post prompted me to make an appointment for Flash, I have been putting it off...obstruction surgery in March, tooth extraction in June and just couldn't see doing another surgery this year, but....Flash's breathing is getting slowly worst. We have an appointment for the 13th of Oct.

Dr Ed and others,

So I do have a question how long is recovery? The reason I ask is we will be heading to Elk camp about 10 days later and Flash will stay with grandma and I want to prepare her for his care if need be.

Thanks,

Lainee


----------



## EdA (May 13, 2003)

FOM said:


> Sondra,
> 
> Your post prompted me to make an appointment for Flash, I have been putting it off...obstruction surgery in March, tooth extraction in June and just couldn't see doing another surgery this year, but....Flash's breathing is getting slowly worst. We have an appointment for the 13th of Oct.
> 
> ...


As with most soft tissue surgery the tissues heal at about the same rate as skin heals so 10-14 days. Feeding the first few days is a little trouble, canned dog food made into meatballs is generally recommended. Most surgeons advise about 30 days before resuming any strenuous activities.

Kweezy was free walking on our morning walks after 2 weeks, she now roads and swims freely with the other dogs and plans to go to South Dakota next month for pheasant hunting.


----------



## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

EdA said:


> As with most soft tissue surgery the tissues heal at about the same rate as skin heals so 10-14 days. Feeding the first few days is a little trouble, canned dog food made into meatballs is generally recommended. *Most surgeons advise about 30 days before resuming any strenuous activities.*


Not much chance my mom will be giving Flash much strenuous activity, unless sitting for treats is strenuous. 

Hardest thing will be 'making' her use soft treats like CHEESE (Flashes favorite)


----------



## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

She will need to know what to watch for in case of aspiration pneumonia.


----------



## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Very interestibg thread.
Thank You all.

Glad your dog Kweezy is gonna be with you Dr. Ed, chasin those big roosters. I hope you have a great time.

Good luck with Flash Lainee, Hope all is well.

Gooser


----------

