# Vet refusing to use 1800 Pet Meds



## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Ok I had my dog in to a new vet. Nice place, did a good job. Check-up and annual shots. I then go to place an order for heartworms and flea/tick and my vet refuses to write a script! She says that it is because she questioned the quality and storage of the products. I tell her that actually the 1800 is transported less and is likely new becasue they have such high product turnover. In reality it was because she wanted to charge me 30% high then 1800-Petmeds. 

Is that legal. It wouldn't be for a human doctor. They cannot tell you where to get your medicine from. Any rules on the issue


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## CMRR&GC (Apr 3, 2010)

I have two close friends that are vets....neither will use 1800 Pet Meds.

1) They don't trust chain of custody.
2) And probably the real reason they don't want to use them is 1800 Pet Meds asks vets to write scripts on animals they haven't seen. Granted most all meds are fairly routine but it is a practice many vets want to avoid. You don't have to have a prescription to call 1800 Pet Meds...the meds they sale require a script...they find vets that will blindly write scripts on unseen animals.


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Nate_C said:


> Ok I had my dog in to a new vet. Nice place, did a good job. Check-up and annual shots. I then go to place an order for heartworms and flea/tick and my vet refuses to write a script! She says that it is because she questioned the quality and storage of the products. I tell her that actually the 1800 is transported less and is likely new becasue they have such high product turnover. In reality it was because she wanted to charge me 30% high then 1800-Petmeds.
> 
> Is that legal. It wouldn't be for a human doctor. They cannot tell you where to get your medicine from. Any rules on the issue


Find a new vet.;-)


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## lizard55033 (Mar 10, 2008)

I didn't need s script for heartworm medication....

I went through if I remember dr foster and smith....


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

I use Drs Foster and Smith and they DO require a prescription either enclosed with your order or else they will fax your vet but either way a script is required.

Andy


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## Bustin' (Jun 5, 2007)

It depends on what state you are from. Wisconsin doesn't but Mn does, so I have mine shipped to my friend 10 miles away and pick them up from him. I think it has to do with who has better lobbiest!! Then I found out I can walk into the Tractor Supply in St. Croix Falls and just buy it out of their fridge.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

My vet wouldn't write a presription but matches the price in DrsFosterSmith calalog. Ask your vet if they will match the 1800 price. By the way DrsFosterSmith is cheaper for Heartguard by about $8 per 3 tablets. I just looked it up as one of our clients is encountering a prescription issue with 1800 on heartworm meds.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Andy Carlson said:


> I use Drs Foster and Smith and they DO require a prescription either enclosed with your order or else they will fax your vet but either way a script is required.
> 
> Andy


Ivermec does not need one ;-)
That said the thing you really need is a heartworm test to assure your dog does not have them before you start them on meds. 
Find a new vet, have a test done and have them write one or match the price. I have no problem with your local vet getting the money, but not when most up charge 20-40% over what you can get it for in other places.


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## wheelhorse (Nov 13, 2005)

Make sure you read this:

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm048164.htm


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## MSDOGS1976 (Mar 7, 2009)

I've never asked as the price is not that much different anyway. I pay $40 for Iverhart Max at the vet(6ea). The cost at 1-800Petmeds is $35 plus shipping. And I feel safer coming from the vet anyway. I do order flea and tick med's online.

I would be chapped if my vet didn't write a prescription if I requested one though and would probably look for another vet.


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

my vet will happily write a script for 30 dollars, which makes it cost prohibitive to then order over the internet. But my vets prices are reasonable anyways.


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## rlw (May 14, 2009)

Our vet will match the price on these meds. He also doesn't trust the mail order companies. So it works out nice for us.


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## Joseph Kendrick (Mar 19, 2010)

If you buy your heartworm medicine from your vet and your pup gets heartworms the treatment is covered by the medicine manufacturer. If you buy them from 1-800 pet meds, no coverage. Had a friend find this out the hard way.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

We have a long and mutually beneficial relationship with our Vet- I think we actually have our own wing 8-} and I would not endanger that over a few bucks. If your vet isn't someone you would trust with your life - move on. There are millions of vets- some good some not so good.
If you trust your vet then trust his/her judgement when it comes to sourcing medications. We are talking about a few lousy dollars here - better to spend a little more to ensure that the vet makes a decent living and that your pet is getting quality medication.
There are lots better ways to save a few bucks regards

Bubba


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## Maxs Mom (Sep 17, 2009)

My vet strongly encouraged us to not buy heartworm meds from anyone but them. He would write the RX if we wanted it but...Apparently from what my vet says, if you do not get your heartworm from a vet, and your dog gets heartworm, the company will not warranty the medication because there is no control where "they" got it.

I do get a lot of my meds from online sources but heartworm I get from my vet. 

Ann


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## Ken S. (Feb 2, 2005)

I have pretty strong feelings about this. I pay my vets a lot of money for their services, and don't begrudge them a bit. But when it comes to buying medicine for long-term chronic situations, where there is no value added, it rubs me the wrong way. I feel that they are trying to hold you hostage to separate profit center - their pharmacy. I have an old guy who takes heart medication - four of them, plus a Rymadil, every day. He has been on them for quite a while, and will be until he dies. I can go to Fosters and Smith and get the same medicine for almost half the price. Plus I have a half hour drive each way to get medicine from my vet. If they would match the price, or even come close, that would be fine, so instead I get a vet friend to write the scripts.


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## Terry Thomas (Jun 27, 2005)

Scott Greenwood said:


> Find a new vet.;-)


That's what I'd do.


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Maxs Mom said:


> My vet strongly encouraged us to not buy heartworm meds from anyone but them. He would write the RX if we wanted it but...Apparently from what my vet says, if you do not get your heartworm from a vet, and your dog gets heartworm, the company will not warranty the medication because there is no control where "they" got it.
> 
> I do get a lot of my meds from online sources but heartworm I get from my vet.
> 
> Ann


Yes this is the case and that is part of the problem. I am sure vets have pressured the companies to make this policy but in reality quality firms like DR/Fosters and 1800PetMeds have higher control features. They have higher turnover of products so it sits on the shelf for a sorter period of time and there are less transit points. Not to mention heartworm meds and flea/tick has a long shelf life and wide storage requirments. It is a crock.


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## msdaisey (May 13, 2004)

1.800.petmeds is expensive!

There are many more affordable online suppliers - just Google your item.


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## Jim Stevenson (Mar 18, 2010)

My vet in Memphis doesn't carry/use Advantage Multi.  I get it from 800petmeds. I call my vet 1rst of every month and have them update dogs' charts.

Will Bayer cover expenses of treatment if the Multi fails?


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Bubba said:


> We have a long and mutually beneficial relationship with our Vet- I think we actually have our own wing 8-} and I would not endanger that over a few bucks. If your vet isn't someone you would trust with your life - move on. There are millions of vets- some good some not so good.
> If you trust your vet then trust his/her judgement when it comes to sourcing medications. We are talking about a few lousy dollars here - better to spend a little more to ensure that the vet makes a decent living and that your pet is getting quality medication.
> There are lots better ways to save a few bucks regards
> 
> Bubba


Well said. I prefer to keep my money as local as possible. If it means paying a little more, I'll do that anyday. If $30 dollars for vacinations is a deal breaker for you and a vet, you sure have chosen the wrong hobby/interest.......


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Nate_C said:


> I am sure vets have pressured the companies to make this policy


now THAT is a crock....:lol:

trust me, veterinary pharmaceutical companies are not "pressured" by veterinarians, sure wish it were true

Frankly running a pharmacy and a veterinary practice is a real PITA, I would be happy to just charge for professional services and write prescriptions for every dispensed item. We have lots of capital tied up in inventory, we don't purchase large enough lots to get a good price, and when products go out of date on the shelf it is like taking $$$$ out of our pockets.

We maintain pharmacies for items not readily available from human pharmacies which may be needed on short notice and for the convenience of our customers, many of whom do not want to go to a pharmacy or oder from an online supplier whose overhead consists of a warehouse and a computer.

When I have my annual physical my physician writes prescriptions as part of the visit, any other time there is a $10 prescription management fee.

My clients are welcome to purchase medications online, the only provision is an annual heartworm test.


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

It's amazing that a person will pay 1000 plus for a dog. A whole bunch more for training. 1500 bucks for the newest benelli. A couple thousand dollars a year on hunt tests and hunting trips only to go cheap on Vet services or dog food. Just remember when your dog gets heartworms, you are on your own.

DVM's are not getting rich off of you. If most were smart, they would have chosen another profession to make money.


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## Leslie B (Jul 3, 2009)

A number of years ago I asked my vet to match the price of Drs. Foster and Smith for Heartguard. At the time I was spending $2000+/year at this particular vet. He refused and then refused to write a prescription even though the dogs were still on the heartguard that he had sold me the prior year. (I do year round medication). 

Now I don't begrudge anyone from making a reasonable profit because I am in business too. However, I give my better clients a break all the time. It keeps them coming back and it keeps them loyal when a competitor tries to get their business. 

Long story but it was the straw that broke the camels back and I switched to another vet about 10 miles down the road. I could not be happier. My current vet is better with my animals and his staff always treats me like an active participant in the care and treatment of my dogs. It seems like I get a discount on something every month and I never have to ask for it. By the way - I am still spending the $2000+ in vet care but now I am happy to pay it and feel like I got value for my money.


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## Schmemdog (Mar 30, 2010)

Leslie B said:


> Now I don't begrudge anyone from making a reasonable profit because I am in business too. However, I give my better clients a break all the time. It keeps them coming back and it keeps them loyal when a competitor tries to get their business.


The best businesses I know will work WITH a customer, but educate them at the same time. I think the most reasonable route would be to share concerns about mail order meds, then write the script if the client still wanted to go that route. Or even explain that they mark up slightly in order to recoup losses elsewhere in the business- such as discounts on annual shots, etc. Good vets know that their good practices will be returned 10 times over by referred business. The flip side of that is- refer like mad when you're happy with someone's business! I tell everyone and their brother when I'm happy with a particular business. It keeps up a good relationship on both sides.

I also agree that keeping money local benefits everyone- usually only the difference of a couple of dollars.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

My vet still has actual docs on call 24/7. If something bad happens in the middle of the night, you call them and the vet on call meets you at the office. That is extremely rare around here these days and I have taken advantage of it, unfortunately.

I cringe when I stock up on the heartworm and flea stuff or antibiotics, but I remind myself that a few extra bucks are worth it when I have a problem on a Saturday night and I suck it up.


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm sorry, $185 for a blood draw plus $45 to mail (EIC test), and $110 for 6 months of heartguard is a little steep. Multiply that times 3 dogs and overpriced frontline and I'm changeing vets. I won't get into the xray prices for hips/elbows. I'm all for local and profit but I'm not paying for the new building all in one shot.


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## labdoc (Apr 18, 2003)

scott furbeck said:


> It's amazing that a person will pay 1000 plus for a dog. A whole bunch more for training. 1500 bucks for the newest benelli. A couple thousand dollars a year on hunt tests and hunting trips only to go cheap on Vet services or dog food. Just remember when your dog gets heartworms, you are on your own.
> 
> DVM's are not getting rich off of you. If most were smart, they would have chosen another profession to make money.


Scott please come to our practice!!!!
This amazes me too, that people complain about the few extra bucks with the increase goodwill they get by buying locally.

In Colorado, as in most states, refusing to write a script when requested is illegal. Yes, I hate 1-800-petmeds and similar pharmacies. They fill prescriptions even when not authorised, they are often NOT cheaper when one figures shipping fees, they are constantly being investigated by the FDA for poor quality control but clients insist on using them because "online must be cheaper".

As Ed stated an in-house pharmacy is a hassle. Our only stipulation is that the hard copy must be mailed; we will not fax or authorise over the phone. This way I have done everything in my power to assure that the script was filled correctly, which is up to the owner to determine.

Oh one last point, not necessarily aimed at those who posted here, but when a person complains about all the money they have spent at the vets and that they are owed something (after hours, cheaper fees, etc.), they are more often then not the C or D client that makes up the 5% that cause 95% of the headaches. Watching them go down the road is often a relief.


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## MSDOGS1976 (Mar 7, 2009)

Tstreg said:


> I'm sorry, $185 for a blood draw plus $45 to mail (EIC test), *and $110 for 6 months of heartguard is a little steep*. Multiply that times 3 dogs and overpriced frontline and I'm changeing vets. I won't get into the xray prices for hips/elbows. I'm all for local and profit but I'm not paying for the new building all in one shot.



Wow.......unbelievable.


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

I married my DVM 23 years ago when we were both in school. I really feel sorry for new graduates... there is no way to pay back the debt. It would have been a lot cheaper to pay for vet services (rather than marry the DVM) but it does have some fringe benefits.

My wife just came back from CE in Ultrasound. Topnotch new Machines are now 25K. Digital XRay is someplace around 50K. It''s hard to get a return on investment. We don't own a practice as I am the primary breadwinner in the family and I've had to move about every 5-6 years.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

scott furbeck said:


> I married my DVM 23 years ago when we were both in school. I really feel sorry for new graduates... there is no way to pay back the debt. It would have been a lot cheaper to pay for vet services (rather than marry the DVM) but it does have some fringe benefits.
> 
> My wife just came back from CE in Ultrasound. Topnotch new Machines are now 25K. Digital XRay is someplace around 50K. It''s hard to get a return on investment. We don't own a practice as I am the primary breadwinner in the family and I've had to move about every 5-6 years.


If you are looking to place her let me know- I think I might have a good home for her. Can she type?

Trying to help out in the worst way regards

Bubba


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

scott furbeck said:


> I married my DVM 23 years ago when we were both in school. I really feel sorry for new graduates... there is no way to pay back the debt. It would have been a lot cheaper to pay for vet services (rather than marry the DVM) but it does have some fringe benefits.
> 
> My wife just came back from CE in Ultrasound. Topnotch new Machines are now 25K. Digital XRay is someplace around 50K. It''s hard to get a return on investment. We don't own a practice as I am the primary breadwinner in the family and I've had to move about every 5-6 years.



Yeah the compensation really sucks but the work is rewarding, the relief veterinarians who work full time in my area make 20K to 30K more than I do as a practice owner

It is a great profession and I have no regrets for my decision but my contemporaries in human medicine, law, and dentistry are all retired and for me retirement is a distant illusion (@ 64 and healthy)


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## Rhenee Fadling (May 23, 2008)

Agree with many of the posts here, 1800 is not the cheapest place to find your meds. I've had a dog on Derramax (NSAID) for years and I'm always shopping, been buying on line for several years, with the price of shipping, price increases, etc., I decided to talk to my vet, he actually matched the price, less the shipping - sometimes it works. BUT if your vet isn't willing to realize that your heart is in the right place and you want to do the best for your dog, but can't afford their prices, then find another vet.


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

Bubba said:


> If you are looking to place her let me know- I think I might have a good home for her. Can she type?
> 
> Trying to help out in the worst way regards
> 
> Bubba


Nope, I'll keep what I have. Getting married to my wife was the best thing I ever did. Yes, she was throwing ducks for me yesterday. Yes, she can shoot. The only thing she hates about hunting is the cold (honestly, I'm not so thrilled about that either).


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

EdA said:


> Yeah the compensation really sucks but the work is rewarding, the relief veterinarians who work full time in my area make 20K to 30K more than I do as a practice owner
> 
> It is a great profession and I have no regrets for my decision but my contemporaries in human medicine, law, and dentistry are all retired and for me retirement is a distant illusion (@ 64 and healthy)


My wife works 2 days a week (essentially doing relief work). It's a nice compromise since my job requires a good bit of time and travel. Her money is used to pre-pay for college (I have a 10 and 14 Y.O. daughters). When we get that covered, maybe we can play dog games on a more serious basis.

If you have a good, educated client base, it's a good job. If not, it can be tough. I'm glad you are healthy, there are a lot of DVM's that get beat up by your age. 

bye


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## Laminarman (May 11, 2009)

Good grief. Get off your wallet and pay your vet *if you meet one of these criteria:*

1. you have a *good* relationship with your vet and might one day depend on them to save your animals life in a time of crisis, or hunt hard and may call them unexpectably (yes...it works like this, sorry to say...)

2. believe that the eight or nine years of schooling, overhead, expenses and risk of going into business means making a few bucks on medicines (trust me they are not getting rich on this)

3. care about your local businesses surviving instead of a nameless internet turd from wherever. 

I am so sick of this commoditization of services and products. It's an erosion of an American way of life. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT a vet, but I am an indedently practicing health care provider and I make money off services and products. We have seen some sales on the internet erode our profits, but our business is strong, continues to grow, is doing well and we are happy. Why?? Market forces. The more you pressure your vet to get outside meds the more they will raise their fees. We lost 10% of our income to internet sales, and raised our fees 15% and then dropped off low paying insurance plans. There will be a need that will need to be filled. What happens in the end is that folks who need care go without. In this case, it might be animals who need care go without. Don't F%##%$!! with market forces, the vets need to make a living. In our area vet visit fees _skyrocketed_ like crazy and my vet, who is a personal friend, said it's because internet meds took off. All the vets ended up raising fees. Net result: you'll pay the same unless you neglect your pet. So get off your wallet and pay your vet, your trainer, your doctor and build a relationship, because that's the AMERICAN way. It's the honest way, it's the honorable way. Skip your next ****ty meal at a fast food crap joint and build your relationship. I suggest being honest if you really can't afford it, just ask them for a courtesy discount since you've been shopping online. I bet you get a break, and the relationship survives. 

There, I vented. Don't get me started on Osama Care or we're really in trouble here..


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Laminarman said:


> Good grief. Get off your God Damned wallet and pay your vet *if you meet one of these criteria:*
> 
> 1. you have a *good* relationship with your vet and might one day depend on them to save your animals life in a time of crisis, or hunt hard and may call them unexpectably (yes...it works like this, sorry to say...)
> 
> ...




Do you shop at WalMart, Home Depot, have you ever bought something off Amazon or ebay, have you ever sent an email rather then mailing a letter. These are all examples of business that figured out a better way of doing business. What you are telling me is that I have to pay extra for the same exact thing because a local buisness man saids I should. If a car at the nearest deal ship cost 20,000 but a deal 25 miles away is cost 18,000 shoudl I buy the 20,000 car becasue he is closer? How dare you call the people at 1800pet -meds or any internet business turds. Who do you think you are. They work hard and came up with a new idea and used a net technology created in this country for the most part by the way, to create a good business that employees people and provideds a good product for a good price. 

I hate this american way crap. The American way is of Free Markets. If someone figures out a better way of doing something that guy gets the business. I pay good money to my vet. I like her and I think she does a good job but this is a business relationship and I am not going to pay extra for the same meds. This isn't about getting a cheap substitute, or getting something from a questionable company. I simply choose to get my veterinary services from a local doctor and get my pharmacy services from another vendor which by the way is what we do in the human world. PS when you fill a script for yourself do you go out of the way to go to John's Pharmacy or do you go to CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, or your local supermarket? Isn't that what all the repubs are against "Obama Care" in the first place cause it limits choice? And it is a flat out lie that the products you get at vets are better or safer. That flies in the very face of what they should be, which is doctors not sales men. Funny, my insurance company now offers lower copays if I use an online pharmacy for families routine medications because it is cheaper for them, which is great for us both.


How about this, Stop tring to sell me food, or suppliments or common medications...ect.... and just be my vet. If you cannot make a living at it I am sorry but it is not my problem. If you cannot make a profit selling heartworm meds then here is an idea stop selling them. And someone else said that veterinarians don't lobby. Please Every state has vet Boards/Associations that lobby and there are private groups like: www.avda.net. Please if you didn't you wold be the only ones in the whole industry who didn't.


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## Laminarman (May 11, 2009)

Nate_C said:


> Do you shop at WalMart, Home Depot, have you ever bought something off Amazon or ebay, have you ever sent an email rather then mailing a letter. These are all examples of business that figured out a better way of doing business. What you are telling me is that I have to pay extra for the same exact thing because a local buisness man saids I should. If a car at the nearest deal ship cost 20,000 but a deal 25 miles away is cost 18,000 shoudl I buy the 20,000 car becasue he is closer? How dare you call the people at 1800pet -meds or any internet business turds. Who do you think you are. They work hard and came up with a new idea and used a net technology created in this country for the most part by the way, to create a good business that employees people and provideds a good product for a good price.
> 
> I hate this american way crap. The American way is of Free Markets. If someone figures out a better way of doing something that guy gets the business. I pay good money to my vet. I like her and I think she does a good job but this is a business relationship and I am not going to pay extra for the same meds. This isn't about getting a cheap substitute, or getting something from a questionable company. I simply choose to get my veterinary services from a local doctor and get my pharmacy services from another vendor which by the way is what we do in the human world. PS when you fill a script for yourself do you go out of the way to go to John's Pharmacy or do you go to CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, or your local supermarket? Isn't that what all the repubs are against "Obama Care" in the first place cause it limits choice? And it is a flat out lie that the products you get at vets are better or safer. That flies in the very face of what they should be, which is doctors not sales men. Funny, my insurance company now offers lower copays if I use an online pharmacy for families routine medications because it is cheaper for them, which is great for us both.
> 
> ...


Give me a break. What I'm saying is not to destroy a relationship over $20. If you're callous and shallow enough to sever that over a small amount of money, then you and I are different. I would argue that if you feel that about your vet get ANOTHER VET. It's not friggin' rocket science. It is distinctly different than a $2,400 set of injections of Enbrel locally, versus $1,400 online (MONTHLY). And it is different than saving $2,000 on a car. And don't spout off to me about lower insurance copays for using internet pharmacies. I have thousands of patients who would pay $20 more to just go to their pharmacy rather than jump through hoops and be limited in what they can get; and yes, they want brand names meds, not generics. Yes they are different arguments but parallel. 

My vets heartworm and flea/tick meds are within $10 of online prices, they guarantee it, and it keeps him and his employees employed. I AM a free market person, trust me. I just choose to support a local business by spending an extra $50 a year, it's a personal choice. I guess you're fiscally wiser than I am. Watch the fallout from this healthcare takeover, you haven't seen anything yet. You honestly think that your little microcosm of a world is better because you can get your antibiotic for $10 less online and save some money on your copay? Look at the big picture; some day you will realize when you need that medicine to cure your problem is DENIED (read DENIED Nate) because your insurance company says so, you are F'ing screwed. Or like us, we saved $1,000 year on premiums and get online pharmacy coverage- but are denied life altering medicine for our daughter after multiple appeals. So you know what? We pay higher premiums and get what we need. You WILL PAY in the end, re read my message. If your vet can't make a living you're right, it's not your problem. He needs to do one of two things: get better patients, or raise his fees. I said he should raise his fees, that's all. You WILL END UP PAYING THE SAME IN THE END.


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## Lisa S. (May 23, 2003)

Or the vet could do as mine does, the sign in his office reads as follows:
*$12.00 charge for writing any outside prescription*

Shuts that type of conversation down right there. 
Our vet has helped us with his knowledge, saving us oodles of unnecessary, expensive tests.


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## Laminarman (May 11, 2009)

Lisa S. said:


> Or the vet could do as mine does, the sign in his office reads as follows:
> *$12.00 charge for writing any outside prescription*
> 
> Shuts that type of conversation down right there.
> Our vet has helped us with his knowledge, saving us oodles of unnecessary, expensive tests.


This may be OK in veterinary medicine, but would never fly in a physicians office. I think that would border on unethical behavior. It is, however, an interesting approach.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Laminarman said:


> This may be OK in veterinary medicine, but would never fly in a physicians office. I think that would border on unethical behavior....


....and in some states, illegal.

Eric


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## okvet (Jun 20, 2006)

EdA said:


> Yeah the compensation really sucks but the work is rewarding, the relief veterinarians who work full time in my area make 20K to 30K more than I do as a practice owner
> 
> It is a great profession and I have no regrets for my decision but my contemporaries in human medicine, law, and dentistry are all retired and for me retirement is a distant illusion (@ 64 and healthy)


Dr. Ed that's because you finance this expensive labrador hobby on a vet's salary

I have friends that are lawyers and physicians and my income doesn't compare to my friends however if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't trade places with them. It is rewarding and I love what I do.

todd


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## MSDOGS1976 (Mar 7, 2009)

This thread got my curiosity up on salaries for vets. Here is a link with some info. Not very good considering the amount of education required(8 years) and the amount of hours many have to work. 

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Veterinarian/Salary


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Laminarman said:


> Give me a break. What I'm saying is not to destroy a relationship over $20. If you're callous and shallow enough to sever that over a small amount of money, then you and I are different. I would argue that if you feel that about your vet get ANOTHER VET. It's not friggin' rocket science. It is distinctly different than a $2,400 set of injections of Enbrel locally, versus $1,400 online (MONTHLY). And it is different than saving $2,000 on a car. And don't spout off to me about lower insurance copays for using internet pharmacies. I have thousands of patients who would pay $20 more to just go to their pharmacy rather than jump through hoops and be limited in what they can get; and yes, they want brand names meds, not generics. Yes they are different arguments but parallel.
> 
> My vets heartworm and flea/tick meds are within $10 of online prices, they guarantee it, and it keeps him and his employees employed. I AM a free market person, trust me. I just choose to support a local business by spending an extra $50 a year, it's a personal choice. I guess you're fiscally wiser than I am. Watch the fallout from this healthcare takeover, you haven't seen anything yet. You honestly think that your little microcosm of a world is better because you can get your antibiotic for $10 less online and save some money on your copay? Look at the big picture; some day you will realize when you need that medicine to cure your problem is DENIED (read DENIED Nate) because your insurance company says so, you are F'ing screwed. Or like us, we saved $1,000 year on premiums and get online pharmacy coverage- but are denied life altering medicine for our daughter after multiple appeals. So you know what? We pay higher premiums and get what we need. You WILL PAY in the end, re read my message. If your vet can't make a living you're right, it's not your problem. He needs to do one of two things: get better patients, or raise his fees. I said he should raise his fees, that's all. You WILL END UP PAYING THE SAME IN THE END.


I am confused, not to get of subject but you bash Insurance companies but, I am assuming to are a republican/conservitive you are against patient bill of rights and Obama care. These laws address many of the issues you mentioned. Back on subject though I just don't understand why people want me to pay more then I need to. Are you telling me that if I don't get my meds from my vet he/she is going to not provide my dog with the best care when he needs it? Listen I found a better deal. Happens every day in the free market. Sorry but that is life.

By the way I found out that She is actually breaking the law by refusing. In Georgia they have to write me a prescription if the dog is under their care and the meds are part of a best practices method of care. I am ow looking for another vet. In 3 months I will be getting my youngest dog chipped, hips done and I spend 200-500.00 on just routine stuff. So I guess you have to turn the question around on the vet. Was it worth 20.00 to lose me as a customer.


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

MSDOGS1976 said:


> This thread got my curiosity up on salaries for vets. Here is a link with some info. Not very good considering the amount of education required(8 years) and the amount of hours many have to work.
> 
> http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Veterinarian/Salary



Yep, that's accurate.... Not counting servicing 150-200K of debt from school. Now vet schools are about 2/3 female. A guy does the math and says, no way he can make it work out. The girls are a little more emotionally attached to the concept.

I asked my wife, she would not do it all over again. Given another shot at it she would have loved to have been a surgical nurse or a nurse anesthesiologist. Many times young girls come to the clinic aspiring to be DVM's. She trys to talk them out of it.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

scott furbeck said:


> Many times young girls come to the clinic aspiring to be DVM's. She trys to talk them out of it.


Recently I made a presentation to the Sports Medicine Club at the vet school at Auburn. My advice to those present was to choose a specialty and get Board Certified in it. 

Sadly the future of the profession in small animal medicine will be vaccination clinics and specialists. Privately owned practices like mine will be few and far between except in rural areas where mixed large and small animal practices will exist.

My further advice to owners is get pet health insurance.


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## labdoc (Apr 18, 2003)

Nate_C said:


> In 3 months I will be getting my youngest dog chipped, hips done and I spend 200-500.00 on just routine stuff. So I guess you have to turn the question around on the vet. Was it worth 20.00 to lose me as a customer.


Based on the angry posts and incorrect statements about vets banding together to keep you from getting the lowest price, etc., etc., I would bet they would say they would gladly PAY $20 extra to send your records to another clinic. 

What you fail to understand, whether it is right or wrong, the services you receive will be based on your attitude. If you constantly moan about costs, your vet will not recommend the more expensive, albeit safer procedures or meds because they are tired of hearing the complaining. When you have an emergency, they will gladly see the other pet with the broken toe nail, because that client has the credit card out before the procedure is done. And when Pet Med Express and others have taken the small profit out of medications, you will whine even louder about the increasing cost for the ACL repair or spay that they must know charge to remain in business. The free market is a great thing, but I personally chose NOT to shop at Walmart. It is not that I can afford to spend more, it is that I like customer service which they do not offer, I hate the fact that they have driven so many Mom and Pop stores out of business, and I believe made in America actually means something special. You have your right to pursue the cheapest price above all else, but remember that the vet you just tried to put out of business offers a service as well. We all know that not all services are created equal and you may have lost the best DOCTOR in your area. For this type of client, I understand Banfield is taking new clients and gladly recommend them.


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## Laminarman (May 11, 2009)

labdoc said:


> Based on the angry posts and incorrect statements about vets banding together to keep you from getting the lowest price, etc., etc., I would bet they would say they would gladly PAY $20 extra to send your records to another clinic.
> 
> What you fail to understand, whether it is right or wrong, the services you receive will be based on your attitude. If you constantly moan about costs, your vet will not recommend the more expensive, albeit safer procedures or meds because they are tired of hearing the complaining. When you have an emergency, they will gladly see the other pet with the broken toe nail, because that client has the credit card out before the procedure is done. And when Pet Med Express and others have taken the small profit out of medications, you will whine even louder about the increasing cost for the ACL repair or spay that they must know charge to remain in business. The free market is a great thing, but I personally chose NOT to shop at Walmart. It is not that I can afford to spend more, it is that I like customer service which they do not offer, I hate the fact that they have driven so many Mom and Pop stores out of business, and I believe made in America actually means something special. You have your right to pursue the cheapest price above all else, but remember that the vet you just tried to put out of business offers a service as well. We all know that not all services are created equal and you may have lost the best DOCTOR in your area. For this type of client, I understand Banfield is taking new clients and gladly recommend them.


Bingo! What I said earlier. Good job. It's a relationship. YES, I give preferential treatment to non whiner patients and go out of my way to care for them if they're not constantly nickle and diming me to death. The others I just let leave. It WILL get worse under Obama care, there will be a shortage of docs, and there will be an increase of ancillary fees outside of garbage basement plans, and the masses who flood the offices will be given inferior care. I could go on and there are sound ideas to fix the mess, but not on this forum. I'll leave a tidbit: start charging EVERYONE SOMETHING for their care instead of letting people abuse the system.


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## just me (Feb 17, 2010)

nate: define "under thier care" is it treating the dog for something? is it merely giving the dog an exam? is it the mere fact the dog walks thru thier door?

what if the vet says ok heres a scrip for 1 month of HW meds i'll need to retest the dog next month before i can write another scrip..you gonna do it?

ed samples


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## Rhenee Fadling (May 23, 2008)

BINGO - yes, you are correct it is based on attitude and a relationship, does this make me a "bad" patient owner if I have my dog registered with Walgreen's and I can get my dogs prescription filled for half of what the vet will charge? I don't think so, a good vet understands that I don't have bottomless pockets, maybe they can/maybe they can't match prescription prices with Walgreen's or wherever.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2010)

CMRR&GC said:


> I have two close friends that are vets....neither will use 1800 Pet Meds.
> 
> 1) They don't trust chain of custody.
> 2) And probably the real reason they don't want to use them is 1800 Pet Meds asks vets to write scripts on animals they haven't seen. Granted most all meds are fairly routine but it is a practice many vets want to avoid. You don't have to have a prescription to call 1800 Pet Meds...the meds they sale require a script...they find vets that will blindly write scripts on unseen animals.


I am General Counsel for 1-800-PetMeds. It is absolutely false that our pharmacy "asks vets to write scripts on animals they haven't seen." We are a duly licensed and Vet-VIPPS certified pharmacy, and we do not dispense prescription-required medications without a valid prescription.


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## just me (Feb 17, 2010)

you used to ..it was called your alternate vet program.. you were also fined by the epa for selling metric dosed meds from australia to american consumers... once trust is broken it's hard to regain don't ya think?

ed samples


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## labdoc (Apr 18, 2003)

Here is an internet summary of some of their major mistakes. For those that are confused 1-800 Pet Meds IS Pet Med Express. Hey, but who cares about ethics, its all about getting a cheaper price, right?

http://www.answers.com/topic/petmed-express-inc


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

labdoc said:


> Here is an internet summary of some of their major mistakes. For those that are confused 1-800 Pet Meds IS Pet Med Express. Hey, but who cares about ethics, its all about getting a cheaper price, right?
> 
> http://www.answers.com/topic/petmed-express-inc


I book marked that. Very interesting. Thanks Curt


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## labdoc (Apr 18, 2003)

And 2 more from the FDA, and yes, I will stop posting more links since I also hate those about as much as forwarded emails.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm162121.htm
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/1999/ucm158292.htm


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

What a day of deja vu all over again. You might recall, Ed and Curt, when I long ago started a thread about not cheating your vet, which is what I called it. 

Nothing BMA more than the folks that see no problem with going to their vet for annual care, runny nose care, thorn-in-the-paw care, but whenever they have a chance to bypass the vet for a few bucks savings, they start P & Ming about how much they can save at some super market, that wouldn't give a damn if your dog lived or died in an emergency.

Talk about a batch of whiners that are willing to chop off their nose to spite their face. Better re-think your situation. I'd hate to think your insistance on saving a few bucks on a Heartworm subscription, would sour a vet relationship that might be needed to save you dog's life down the road. 

As Ed stated, he and other small vet offices can't possibly get the same wholesale prices the Wal-mart types can demand. But try getting your TV serviced at Wal-mart. Of course you can buy groceries for less at Wally world, but that neighborhood store that charges $.50 more for a gallon of milk, as well as more for much of what they stock, is worth the convenience of keeping them around by shopping there on occasion, and paying the premium.

Isn't it amazing that the same crowd that has the audacity to cry "buy American", will be seen standing in line to buy 'cheap', anything made off-shore. Do you see any hypocrisy in that attitude? Kinda like the tailor in our city a few years ago, that was the head of the John Birch Society, and drove a Mercedes. What a sham...AND a shame that's what this country has come to.

UB


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## Casanova (Sep 20, 2010)

Material removed by author.

Author reserves all intellectual property rights.

PS. Thanks to the forum for giving me a venue to develop my research.


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## Maxs Mom (Sep 17, 2009)

My vet will do prescriptions for me. I have two dogs on Adequan which they don't carry and it's expensive so they let me find the cheapest venue, and have a rx request sent. I have used outside sources for NSAIDs, and pain meds when my old girl had cancer. However I still get most antibiotics and care meds from my vet because I don't know I need them until I am there. I get my "supplies" from outside sources. 

What I liked was my vet recently gave me an rx to go to a local pharmacy that had a free antibiotic program. Yes you can dispense to dogs too, he wanted to save me a few bucks! I like my vet! Of course the joke in the office is I should have a standing weekly appointment and just bring in whatever dog needs to come. I spend a lot of money there, if they can help me out they do. The older vet who retired only charged me cost. I do miss him


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

Last time I checked my vet is in business to make money. If that is hard for some to understand maybe the vet doesn't want there business. I own a business and I get that crap all the time so and so charges this amount, I can go else where...... Like I tell them I am business to make money, not make new cousins.


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## Casanova (Sep 20, 2010)

MarkyMark said:


> Like I tell them I am business to make money, not make new cousins.


That philosophy goes both ways. Consumers are in the business of getting the most bang for their buck, not to make friends with businesses. 


If the examination charge does not cover the costs of filling out a prescription, then charge extra for it. Don't lie to your customers about your competitors to secure a sale.


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## Ken Newcomb (Apr 18, 2003)

All I need to know is that 1-800 petmeds has never shown up at midnight or on Sunday when I needed help. I don't know about others but my vet does not rape me for this service. I will buy my meds from him and not ask how his price compares to anyone else.


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## Squirm88 (Oct 30, 2008)

Ran into a similar problem a couple weeks ago. Ran out of my 6 months supply of Heartgard Plus so I stopped by my vet to purchase some more. I prefer to purchase the heartworm medicine from the vet since Heartgard will pick up vet costs should the dog contract heartworm while on their product.

I was told they no longer sell Heartgard and only sell a brand called Worm Shield. Was told that Worm Shield does not offer a similar guarantee to pick up vet costs. Asked the vet to write me a script for Heartgard and she refused. After a couple excuses said that if really wanted the script she would need my dog to be tested again for heartworm, even though her current exam is good until the end of November. Left the office without any hearworm medication or script.


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

YO CASANOVA! If you are such a mental midget that this is what you read into my post, you are dead wrong.

For writing something as preposterous as this: "Firstly, Uncle Bill, suggesting that a vet would let your dog die because you are attempting to explore cheaper alternatives to getting pet medications is somewhat troubling"...you need to re-read my post, and then YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY!!!

At no time have I remotely suggested a vet would "let your dog die". Get real! No one on this BB is more of a supporter of Veterinarians than I am. Only a juvenile that reads what they want to read into a post, wouldn't understand that.

I couldn't give a FRA about your entire diatribe concerning vets, and how they are apparently ripping you off. What a novel class envy view that is. You and your ilk are precisely what makes me angry. It's never enough for you to be upset with your charges, you have to P & M and ridicule your vet because they don't sell you prescriptions at a loss....and you need to whine about it to everyone that will listen. I'm not listening, so pedal your trash elsewhere.

UB


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

Casanova
Your statement that physicians cannot prescribe and dispense drugs is total poppycock. Your quote mentions that physician assistants cannot administer Schedule I drugs makes a lot of sense. These drugs are considered to have no legitimate medical use and include heroin and LSD. 

I will be buying my meds from my vet. I trust him. 
Mark Land


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## Casanova (Sep 20, 2010)

Uncle Bill, 

It was not my attention to make you even more angry than you already are. I do not usually make a habit out of engaging in conversation with individuals who attempt to make their point by reverting to extremes and name calling, but I will attempt to calmly diffuse your anger.

This is a discussion about obtaining the best possible health for our pets. Not everyone has unlimited resources, so it is only natural that people would seek a more affordable source of medication for their pets if such a source exists. 

Your angry tirade about your personal thoughts on America, politics and how a economy operates in a free market are irrelevant to the discussion and probably a little hard on your heart as well. As you stated, you did not even take the time to read my post, so I'm not to sure as to why I'm even giving you the courtesy of a response. 

I hope that you will take the time to read my post and perhaps engage in conversation without all the hostility. If you choose not to, thats fine, its your right, but I am not going to spend any more time reading or responding to insulting and aggressive commentary.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

There are online stores that use knockoff Frontline etc. If they don't it's often difficult to tell if they do or possibly did in the past. Vets are not going to keep up on which online stores are legit and which aren't, only that what they sell is genuine. That is the reason I have heard from those that won't give our prescriptions: it's not in the best interest of your dog. If your dog get bitten by ticks that carry illness and gets sick because you chose to save a couple of bucks is it worth it? I had a dog die from such an illness and at least I knew I didn't use a knock off.


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## PhilBernardi (Jul 17, 2010)

In MI, the Vet must write a script if you ask them to if you are going elsewhere to receive medication (like 1-800-PetMeds). 

My vet writes scripts for Heartguard that 1-800-Petmeds fills.


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## meckardt (Jun 24, 2010)

My vet said they wouldn't use 1 800 because they were not 100% sure as to where they were coming from. Rather be safe then sorry I guess.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2010)

My vet will not write a script to purchase meds from an outside source either now they offer most at a competitive price


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