# Dog won't retrieve field geese??



## Kats4507 (Dec 20, 2008)

First off let me say thanks to all the regular posters. I have learned a great deal of information in the past year or so by regular visits to the forum. I haven't really had a problem I couldn't find an answer to until now.

I have a 2 yo Black Lab Female. Very mild temperment. She had a shortened season last year due to illness and surgery. She showed some promise last year but never hunted enough to show her true colors. Over the off season, many many hours were spent training. She has grown to love it. Opening day this year we hunted a local pothole/pond. 19 dead birds and 19 flawless retrieves. 12 ducks 7 geese. Every bird brought to hand, every mark hit perfectly, held until sent after the shot. She hunted out of a dead sled that morning in about 3 ft of water, definately not ideal but she adapted perfectly. She even swam down one goose that sailed and landed about 400 yards away, much alive. Throughout the season we have hunted in a variety of environments, mostly over water. Sure she had a couple of problems, breaking early was our biggest hurdle (solved by keeping her on a lead for about a month haven't had a problem since). Since season started I have started her on hand signals which are coming on slowly but steadily. Some more off season work and she'll be ready with them next year. Even had a buddy take her a few times without me where she performed flawlessly (or so i hear). 

Now for the problem. Locally (Northwest Indiana) everything has froze over. We switched from hunting over water to field hunting for the last month or so of the season. We killed a few mallards over cornstalks early in the year and she was nothing short of great. Duck season is now closed and goose is left open until the last of january. The last two hunts Molly has come into contact with geese killed over cornstalks. She has done awesome with geese all year (all over water) until now. We killed a limit this morning and a few earlier in the week. She holds great, waits until sent, marks well and gets to the bird in a damn hurry. Then she won't retrieve!!!!! She licks the bird, plays with it a little and just won't bring it back. I can get her back, but without the bird. Like I said, mallards are no problem. I don't know where to start. I'm afraid to scold or scream too much because she does everything right up until the moment of truth. I've never had an e-collar on this dog and never will. 

A little backround info. 2 year old black lab female. 71 pounds. Extremely mild temperment, sleeps in blind until we start calling. Minds very well, both in the field and in the house (house dog). Great swimmer, strong retrieves until now. Never been gun shy, etc.

So......what do I do?? Like I said earlier, I'm afraid to scold because she is so timid I'm afraid I would turn her off. How do I get her to stop licking and playing with the geese and bring them back?? Thanks in advance for any advice or help!


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## i_willie12 (Apr 11, 2008)

Simple answer for all of this. She has never had to retrieve something that big on land before and doesnt really now how to go about picking it up. We call it the goose dance. They run up to it then kinda dance around like thier saying maybe I can grab it there nope well maybe here. On water they just grab it and come back, they dont have to carry all the weight in there mouth. On dry land a goose is really big and really heavy if they've never had to carry one on land before. Keep a couple and train with them, they just have to learn how to pick them up. Or during a hunt or after go out with some freshly killed ones and lay them on the ground and send her after them over and over she will figure out how to grab them then increase the distance she has to carry them. This is what I do and it has worked for me. First couple times really doesnt know what to do and drags by wings/neck.. then after a few more times starts grabbing them by the body.

Good luck it just takes time and experience like anything else we do!!!!


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

I agree with willie, just the size it can be initimidating. 

My first lab was the same great on water, but took longer on land. Once they get confidence it will happen. My dad's dog was/is having the same problem. I took one of the geese and flapped the wings at her, teased her with it just got her excited about it, the more excited the harder they charge and hit it with out trying to think about it. What really did the trick was making her honor while I let my lab pick it up a few times. The jealousy really helped.


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## Tom H. (May 17, 2005)

Agree with both above posters - Only thing different is that before my dog ever saw I real goose he was used to picking up the Dokken Goose . Might want to add that to the arsenal of training gear
________
The Championship By Lexus


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

Welcome to the RTF btw. I agree with Tom a dokken goose can help them get use to the weight, and opening up a bit bigger to carry. But there often will still be a transition especially with a large goose. But it can help lessen the jump.


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## Steve Hamel (Mar 1, 2004)

Kats,

Normally, when I know I will be working with a young dog, I save some of the smallest juvenile geese I shoot the year before, and incorporate them into my training program.

Since shes all ready retrieved geese on water, it's just a matter of getting her to pick them up on land. Try removing the wings off of a few, and taping them to retrieving dummies. Then do some training sessions on land. If she does that sucessfully, you can also breast out the bigger birds to reduce their weight, and try training sessions with them.

Sounds like you're avoiding the force issue with her though. See what you can do with non force means through slow introcuction phases not linked to the actual hunt. Will probably work over time.

Steve


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## Wayne Dibbley (Jul 20, 2005)

If you can get your hands on a goose dokken when you're not in the field I have seen them help dogs make the transition.

Years ago I wrote a piece in Gun Dog about getting dog's onto geese, and the gist was helping them adapt to larger sized, weighted objects AND to help them increase speed to and pick up of a downed Canada. 

Like posted earlier you want to help her bang through and pick up geese excitedly and quickly, as square dancing particularly a cripple often creates problems. If a dog will get out there quick and HARD and bowl over a Giant, and make a quick pick up there is little issue. 

Get a buddy to help out, and start out with a goose, and make it a game. Tease her up gently and playfully - if/when she gets fired up and excited about it, toss the bird. Repeat a couple times. Be genuine and excited.

When she's getting really excited about the game, have your buddy move off a bit and give a good throw, celebrate when she gets the bird moving to you, however she is managing it at first.

Somewhere, I looked for you but couldn't find it...Justin Tackett has a video clip online getting a dog to pick up a goose that might help you a bit...one thing I would add with a dog that knows how to play is that I would spend a little time, flipping wing feathers at her, playfully flapping and slapping her gently with wings and getting her really wanting it before giving her short tosses... 

All the best, and continued success on the geese!

Wayne Dibbley


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

I can't disagree with any of the other replies, but I would add: Has your dog been force fetched? I'm guessing not. I also don't know why you would be so adamant about the e-collar, but that is for another conversation. The bottom line is that without force fetch she doesn't HAVE TO retrieve. There comes a point where WANT TO isn't enough and they will try harder if they HAVE TO. Your pup has reached that point with a large goose on dry land IMO. Your solution is a combination of force fetch and more exposure as others have suggested. If your dog has been force fetched then you need to apply the ear pinch as you command fetch. Also, some dogs cannot carry a large canada goose by the body and they have to learn to grip it by the wing bone immediately next to the body. You could hold the wing out like that and try to teach her to grip it there. Once she knows she can grip and where she will be less reluctant.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

What are you giong to do when you send her on a blind and she refuses? 

Fetch burn fetch, regards


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## Danno (May 11, 2006)

If you can find any non-solid water to train on, why not have a helper toss a goose in the water and you first receive the bird at the waters edge (Know there will be success) and then gradually receive future retrieves further and further from waters edge?


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## Kats4507 (Dec 20, 2008)

No she has not been force fetched. Guess I didn't really know about force fetching until recently. I don't know if she is too old to force fetch now?? And to admit it, I wouldn't really have a clue about how to force fetch her?? Anyway, I've since tried the dokken with some success. At first she kind of danced around the dokken until I threw out five or six bumpers with it. The last mark was the dokken and she smoked it after that it was clockwork the rest of the session. We'll see how she does on real geese the day after tomorrow. As far as the e-collar conversation, like someone said that's for another day, just my preference. Thanks guys for the help I'll keep you updated


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## RJG (Feb 18, 2005)

Last year we took my 3 yo BLF MH goose hunting for the 1st time in Texas. She has incredible prey drive and retrieving ability - so imagine my shock when she refused to pick up the freshly killed goose! 

Reading through this thread, I now realize that she was intimidated by the size - waterfowl size never occurred to me (duh). Nevertheless, having had her force fetched, I expected her to pick it up and we had a little session right there in the rice field. I just opened her mouth, stuck the goose in it and told her to hold it. The expression on her face was priceless - like "what in the world is this thing??" Then I threw it on the ground and had her fetch it several more times with an ear pinch. That seemed to work just fine and she didn't hesitate anymore - had a grand time actually.


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

Kats if you are willing to put in the time consistently, and if our schedules can line up, I can help you with FF. How are her basics sit, here, heel?


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Bud said:


> Kats if you are willing to put in the time consistently, and if our schedules can line up, I can help you with FF. How are her basics sit, here, heel?


Kats, this sounds like a great offer. This could be tremendously helpful IMO.



Kats4507 said:


> No she has not been force fetched. Guess I didn't really know about force fetching until recently. I don't know if she is too old to force fetch now?? And to admit it, I wouldn't really have a clue about how to force fetch her??


2 years is not ideal, but it isn't too late IMO. If you hunt a lot of geese then I really think force fetch and eventually working with some real dead geese (take one home and work with it until he gets it down pat) is the way to go. Hopefully you've got another 8 years or more to hunt geese with this dog. It would be well worth it to invest in the force fetch process IMO.

In addition to Bud's offer to help, the other thing you could do is buy Evan Graham's book "SmartFetch" (note: I didn't say SmartWork, but SmartFetch) and follow this book step by step to force fetch your dog. He also has a dvd on force fetching which is probably good, but I haven't seen it. I wouldn't use the dvd alone. I would read the book and supplement with the dvd. Usually the written word is more thorough and the dvd just gives you a good visual.

Good luck to you and your dog.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

RJG said:


> Last year we took my 3 yo BLF MH goose hunting for the 1st time in Texas. She has incredible prey drive and retrieving ability - so imagine my shock when she refused to pick up the freshly killed goose!
> 
> Reading through this thread, I now realize that she was intimidated by the size - waterfowl size never occurred to me (duh). Nevertheless, having had her force fetched, I expected her to pick it up and we had a little session right there in the rice field. I just opened her mouth, stuck the goose in it and told her to hold it. The expression on her face was priceless - like "what in the world is this thing??" Then I threw it on the ground and had her fetch it several more times with an ear pinch. That seemed to work just fine and she didn't hesitate anymore - had a grand time actually.


I did the same with my new charge (17 mo old at that time). I did it in the yard rather than the field due to his age and trying to make sure teh field is still FUN, but that was the day the value of FF really sunk in for me...

After one or two attempts to get him to pick up the bird on his own, putting it in his mouth and all that I just went to fetch burn fetch and it was done. A couple of sessions reinforcing the lesson in the yard and I believe we are good to go. 

Every time we go goose hunting I give him a bird or two in the yard and he no longer hesitates. By the time he hits the field next fall, he shouldn't have any issues. He will be about 2 1/2 yo by that point.


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## Kats4507 (Dec 20, 2008)

Bud thanks for the offer. I have your number and might try to give you a call tonight. I definately would like to take you up on that. My schedule can be hectic, but I can dedicate as much as needed to her. Her basics are great, sit stay here heel. I realize now I should have probably made sit mean stay as well (say sit and she doesn't move till you let her for example) but hindsight is always 20/20. We are going hunting in the morning, I am going to take her with another dog who rocks geese. My thoughts are to make her honor the other dog all morning just to get her fired up and maybe she will learn a thing or two. Bud what is your schedule usually like, maybe we can get together the week between christmas and newyear or something. Anyway, thanks for all the help guys I greatly appreciate it. Oh yeah MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!


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## kcduckslayer (Dec 20, 2005)

Alright I know some will not agree to this but this is what fixed it for me.

I had tried the goose dokken but the darn thing was to big to properly pick up, his mouth was to small and he would only drag it back.

On land he would do the "goose dance" Fixed this by fetch nic fetch. He would pick it up and drop it several time on the way back.

Finally to the point.

My dog loves to chase done cripples. It seems to bring out a fire in him. So what I did was wing a goose and let him chase it down (mind you this could have gone real bad for some but there was no way that goose could have beat him down) now you almost have to pry the goose from his mouth.


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