# ~~~~09 Nat Amat~~~~



## Butch Chambers

What website can you get the latest info on the trial? Working retriever central only has a list of qualifyers.


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## jeff t.

https://www.retrieverentry.com/eventview.php?id=22

click on "entries"


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## LabLady

Butch

I think someone here will start one. Actually someone has already posted what dog they are starting with (#87).

I don't know if Vickie Lamb is doing a blog or not.

Vikki Diehl


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## LabLady

I just checked Working Retriever Central and they are all set up and ready to go!


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## jeff t.

http://www.working-retriever.com/report/callbacks/


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## Tina Styan

Hi Everyone--

The National Amateur Championship coverage has begun on www.working-retriever.com. Click on the "Retriever Report" button for Daily Coverage which started Saturday morning. The "Retriever Blog" button for Vickie Lamb's Blog which will start late Saturday night and the Running Order is on the "Retriever Callbacks" button which will be updated at the end of each series. Look below these selections for the "Stake Info" button.

Hope that you enjoy our coverage as much as we love being here.

Tina & Jean


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## john fallon

Tina, 

Will you take the time to elaborate more fully on the RAC Mtg. details. 

To wait for a month for the full details to come out in the RFTN seems a little to long to wait for "news" as important as this. 

As you probably know these three proposals are _hot button topics _for many in the Retriever community, and the direction and tempo of the discussion on this is of great interest to a lot of us here on the RTF.

Thanks for reading,

john


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## budsdad

I can't find the "Retriever Report" button. I may be technology challenged.


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## john fallon

budsdad said:


> I can't find the "Retriever Report" button. I may be technology challenged.


http://www.working-retriever.com/report/report.html


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## jeff t.

budsdad said:


> I can't find the "Retriever Report" button. I may be technology challenged.



http://www.working-retriever.com/report/report.html


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## budsdad

Thanks for the help


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## Guest

OMG, can someone pleeze tell us the important stuff...like how is the cocktail party going, what is everyone wearing, and who is drinking too much? 

Personally, I don't have to worry about the latter for once because I'm not there ;-), but I do have a great dress to wear next year!


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## oaklandbay

We all know the best Nat Am coverage is here on the RTF


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## BirdHntr

It's 0420/14 and the only update after the cocktail party is the posting of EUK's banner. 

Who's on first?


Carl


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## john fallon

oaklandbay said:


> We all know the best Nat Am coverage is here on the RTF


For this to continue to be true, someone there had better start to do some posting. 



> It's 0420/14 and the only update after the cocktail party is the posting of EUK's banner.


Not quite accurate, the RAC Mtg. information was expanded upon.




> I don't know if Vickie Lamb is doing a blog or not.


To my dismay Vickie has yet to post on her _blog_. (???)

Tina & Jean, thank you for the additional information on the RAC meeting .
Anything you could add would be greatly appreciated.

john


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## Paul Rainbolt

Melanie Foster said:


> OMG, can someone pleeze tell us the important stuff...like how is the cocktail party going, what is everyone wearing, and who is drinking too much?
> 
> Personally, I don't have to worry about the latter for once because I'm not there ;-), but I do have a great dress to wear next year!


I'm not there but almost certain Shayne is drinking too much.


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## JusticeDog

Melanie Foster said:


> OMG, can someone pleeze tell us the important stuff...like how is the cocktail party going, what is everyone wearing, and who is drinking too much?


NOw, that's the good stuff!


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## Lucky Seven

I got a report from a buddy of mine ......

First series is a land series.

Once you get to the mat, you have 15 seconds and the judges will call for the birds...... reguardless if you or your dog are ready !!!!! or if your dog has found all the guns or not. 

Chad


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## Klamath Hunting Gold

Melanie Foster said:


> OMG, can someone pleeze tell us the important stuff...like how is the cocktail party going, what is everyone wearing, and who is drinking too much?
> 
> Personally, I don't have to worry about the latter for once because I'm not there ;-), but I do have a great dress to wear next year!


We will save a special table in Klamath for you! What's your favorite beverage and I will make sure it's there in quantity. Cheers.


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## JusticeDog

Lucky Seven said:


> I got a report from a buddy of mine ......
> 
> First series is a land series.
> 
> Once you get to the mat, you have 15 seconds and the judges will call for the birds...... reguardless if you or your dog are ready !!!!! or if your dog has found all the guns or not.
> 
> Chad


15 seconds is actually longer than most people think to pick out two gun stations... time managment technique. Although putting a time limit on it is un-nerving. And, Tina's blog indicates most dogs are doing pretty well.... one dog has handled.


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## john fallon

This thread was in the events section where it belonged and doing quit well I might add.

What is the rational behind moving the on going results of an event from the Event Forum.



john


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## Chris Atkinson

john fallon said:


> This thread was in the events section where it belonged and doing quit well I might add.
> 
> What is the rational behind moving the on going results of an event from the Event Forum.
> 
> 
> 
> john


Vicky must have moved it. Thanks Vicky! This is consistent with what was done in past national events at RTF.

It's no biggie. I'm glad Vicky moved it.

Chris


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## Klamath Hunting Gold

Wow, getting a number of handles now.......


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## Mike W.

Oh no, Auggie handled! Sentimental fav...


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## K G

Lucky Seven said:


> I got a report from a buddy of mine ......
> 
> First series is a land series.
> 
> Once you get to the mat, you have 15 seconds and the judges will call for the birds...... reguardless if you or your dog are ready !!!!! or if your dog has found all the guns or not.
> 
> Chad


To be expected for a National with 122 entries. Don't expect the judges to be too lenient with accumulated faults....

kg


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## AmiableLabs

Tina just wrote on the report "the wind has changed 360 degrees." :lol:

But she shouldn't feel bad, people get that wrong all the time.


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## AmiableLabs

Will someone please post a link to Vickie's blog?

It is on my laptop, but I just switched to my desktop.

Thanks.


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## Josh Conrad

http://www.working-retriever.com/report/report.html


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## AmiableLabs

ACEBLDRS said:


> http://www.working-retriever.com/report/report.html


Josh, that's Tina's report. I need Vickie's blog.

You would think that Tina would link to it.  Nope. 

Finally found it -- 

http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html

-- I had to reload my WRC homepage to get the link.


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## K G

From Vickie's blog, 360 degrees sounds like it might be an understatement...it has come from all points of the compass....

kg


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## AmiableLabs

Cody handled.


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## BonMallari

I just read that Jack Vollstedt scratched both of his entries, both were in my picks in EE pick em...also congrats to Arnie and Linda Erwin on being chosen as co chairs for the 2010 National Amateur..


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## JusticeDog

AmiableLabs said:


> Josh, that's Tina's report. I need Vickie's blog.
> 
> You would think that Tina would link to it.  Nope.
> 
> Finally found it --
> 
> http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html
> 
> -- I had to reload my WRC homepage to get the link.


OK, so we have a Blog and a Report?


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## MKaty Gutermuth

There have been 2 pick-ups
Handles
100 112 114 115 117 7 10 (Pick-up) 14(pick-up) 16


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## AmiableLabs

JusticeDog said:


> OK, so we have a Blog and a Report?


Yup! Pretty awesome! The more the better. The "Report" just appears to be a newer version of the same daily reporting we used to get from WRC.

I still wish we had reporting here. It leads to discussions better.

I see Tina has added links on her Report to the Blog and the Callbacks.


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## K G

John Fallon will be happy now that the RAC meeting report has been added...

kg


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## JusticeDog

AmiableLabs said:


> I still wish we had reporting here. It leads to discussions better.


I still wish we would see something from the AKC.


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## L&C WIGTON

is there going to be video on this event from AKC???


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## AmiableLabs

JusticeDog said:


> I still wish we would see something from the AKC.


I wonder if it is the job of the NRC and NARC to be proactive about AKC coverage? Or is it up to the AKC itself?

Just wondering out loud. :?


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## john fallon

K G said:


> John Fallon will be happy now that the RAC meeting report has been added...
> 
> kg


Yes, I am pleased, and I told Tina and Jean so in my post # 15 of this thread. 
If they could see their way clear to add more of the specifics I would be more so.

john


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## Lynn Moore

The blind is very close to the long (right hand) bird. Lots of folks are waiting a long time to handle. A few out of control blinds. With the numbers you wonder if the judges will go with the longtime "two mistake" rule.
LM


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## Bret Rasmussen

Can anyone explain what a no-bird means?


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## K G

john fallon said:


> Yes, I am pleased, and I told Tina and Jean so in my post # 15 of this thread.
> If they could see their way clear to add more of the specifics I would be more so.
> 
> john


I'd just about be willing to bet that they've posted all they're gonna post about the RAC meeting on WRC. Now, you might see additional posts here about what was discussed there..._might_....

Gotta sell magazines regards, ;-)

kg


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## K G

Bret Rasmussen said:


> Can anyone explain what a no-bird means?


With a dead bird, something happened with the timing of the throw, the arc of the throw, the visibility of the bird, the bird landed in the wrong place...something happened that, in the judge's eyes, made for an unfair test for the competing dog.

With a flyer, a no-bird means the bird flew away, landed out of the established area of the fall, or some other situation that caused an unfair test for the competing dog.

Waiting 6 dogs to rerun is a good thing, but a no-bird is hardly ever to a competitor's advantage.

_Almost_ never regards,;-)

kg


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## Bret Rasmussen

Thanks K G!


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## K G

Glad to help, Bret.

On another note...so much for continuous coverage today...http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html

PPP (Love ya, Vick!:wink regards,

kg


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## Josh Conrad

Kevin, are you or Lainee going to start a thread with your fancy color cordinated list, love those.


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## AmiableLabs

ACEBLDRS said:


> Kevin, are you or Lainee going to start a thread with your fancy color cordinated list, love those.


I don't see why we can't put up the colored list as soon as we get a full report from WRC.

As for on-site reports beyond WRC, we'll see. Not out of the question.

I haven't seen hide nor hair of Lainee. Is she up there working?


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## MKaty Gutermuth

They are stopping tonight with dog number 73.... Katie


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## FOM

AmiableLabs said:


> I haven't seen hide nor hair of Lainee. Is she up there working?


Sorry - I am all over the list....actually went training and shot fliers for the dogs!  First time we got up to pur property up in the mountains this spring!

FOM


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## FOM

Here you go: http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41510


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## 2tall

Have they done the callbacks yet? They are on central time, right?


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## jeff t.

2tall said:


> Have they done the callbacks yet? They are on central time, right?


 

http://www.working-retriever.com/report/report.html


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## Jacob Hawkes

Callbacks are posted.


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## FOM

Callbacks:



> 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, 67, 68, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 80, 81, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 112, 113, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122...
> 
> 
> AND....117 will start the next test.


I will update the list here in a second....


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## FOM

Dogs lost: 
6 (Missy) 
9 (Zip)
10 (Stanley) 
14 (Tucker) 
17 (Pow)
18 (Griz - Scratch)
38 (Gus)
56 (Arwen)
64 (Max)
69 (Pacer) 
79 (Nikki)
82 (Prime)
111 (Angel - Scratch)
114 (Taz)
115 (Primer)

15 total


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## lablover

Lainee,
Thanks for all of your work to keep your list updated and current. You're doing a great job!


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## FOM

lablover said:


> Lainee,
> Thanks for all of your work to keep your list updated and current. You're doing a great job!


Will do, just waiting for the "keys" so I can unlock the thread and update it....not to worry, we are getting the logistics worked out...

FOM <--- sad to see Pacer and Prime out


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## Lonny Taylor

Hmmm. might be a oooppps. Dog #64(max) is not listed on the blog as being back but is not been shaded in gray on the callbacks list. They have updated the list but he is not shown as a drop yet. 

LT


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## FOM

Lonny Taylor said:


> Hmmm. might be a oooppps. Dog #64(max) is not listed on the blog as being back but is not been shaded in gray on the callbacks list. They have updated the list but he is not shown as a drop yet.
> 
> LT


Lonny there will always be a slight disconnect....as soon as I can track down the issue, I will edit as appropriate.....thanks for pointing out the "error."

FOM


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## FOM

Lonny Taylor said:


> Hmmm. might be a oooppps. Dog #64(max) is not listed on the blog as being back but is not been shaded in gray on the callbacks list. They have updated the list but he is not shown as a drop yet.
> 
> LT


Max is now greyed out on WRC's list of callbacks....

FOM


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## Tim West

The Colorado contingency got an butt whippin! Pacer and Prime are two STRONG animals. 

I would suspect that they might have had a patch of "bad Karma", usually created by shifting winds, bad lighting, time of day, etc. Nationals can be very cruel to dog teams, particularly if your number is early with dead hen pheasants. 

I feel very badly for Barb and DeWitt. Keep your heads up, gang! You at least got to the dance!


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## MKaty Gutermuth

Tim West said:


> The Colorado contingency got an butt whippin! Pacer and Prime are two STRONG animals.
> 
> I would suspect that they might have had a patch of "bad Karma", usually created by shifting winds, bad lighting, time of day, etc. Nationals can be very cruel to dog teams, particularly if your number is early with dead hen pheasants.
> 
> I feel very badly for Barb and DeWitt. Keep your heads up, gang! You at least got to the dance!


I agree with you Tim well said.. Katie


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## FOM

Hmmm, intersting happenings going on during the water blind - so was 64 back or not?

FOM


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## Aaron Homburg

FOM said:


> Hmmm, intersting happenings going on during the water blind - so was 64 back or not?
> 
> FOM



*Would they have let them run if they were not? 

Wondering,

Aaron*


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## AmiableLabs

That blind looks sweet. The best kind -- HUGELY challenging but not unfair.

Tina wrote "It doesn't seem to be causing too much trouble for the field so far and most dogs are up to the challenge."

That gives me goosebumps on what magnificent animals we have. Just magnificent.


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## AmiableLabs

I wish someone would tell Tina to post more pictures!

So far we are getting fewer pictures than reports from previous years.

However the ones she is posting are of much better quality. (For those who have not noticed, you can click on the pictures to enlarge them.)


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## Franco

#64 was dropped after the first two series. Owner ran him thinking he was still in.


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## jeff t.

AmiableLabs said:


> I wish someone would tell Tina to post more pictures!
> 
> So far we are getting fewer pictures than reports from previous years.
> 
> However the ones she is posting are of much better quality. (For those who have not noticed, you can click on the pictures to enlarge them.)


Vickie says she is having technical issues getting pictures posted. They are taking lots of pictures and will get all of them (including the backlog) uploaded as soon as possible.


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## EdA

hmmmm, no blind planted for 59 or 65................


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## K G

And dog 64 ran after not being called back?

Sounds like there are some communications issues....

kg


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## thunderdan

Does anyone know if they are going to do the videos as they have done in the past?


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## K G

That was an AKC thing. If I had to bet, I'd say no.

kg


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## john fallon

How many would have discribed it as a _channel blind_??
John


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## JusticeDog

john fallon said:


> How many would have discribed it as a _channel blind_??
> John


In my college days, after drinking, I would have called that a channel...  but that was a long time ago!


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## Todd Caswell

AmiableLabs said:


> I wish someone would tell Tina to post more pictures!
> 
> So far we are getting fewer pictures than reports from previous years.
> 
> However the ones she is posting are of much better quality. (For those who have not noticed, you can click on the pictures to enlarge them.)



I'll be up there Thursday till the end and will post pictures on RTF in the evening from the hotel.


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## JKL

K G said:


> And dog 64 ran after not being called back?
> 
> Sounds like there are some communications issues....
> 
> kg


When callbacks were announced #64 was called however it must have been a mistake at the time.


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## Gun_Dog2002

Here's a cool function of the google reader for the newsfeeder....











/Paul


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## Roger Perry

Anyone read Vicky"s anonymous quotes?

I would put money that quote #2 is Mitch Brown's.

2) Are we testing the dog's abilities or the handler's eyesight?


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## BBnumber1

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Here's a cool function of the google reader for the newsfeeder....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /Paul


only cool if I knew what I was looking at..


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## lablover

K G said:


> That was an AKC thing. If I had to bet, I'd say no.
> 
> kg


Wasn't it "unofficially" stated last year that the cost of providing videos had gotten prohibitive? I seem to remember that.


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## kiddcline

Call backs are posted for the Fourth Series. My pic was dropped! 
http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html


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## DenverB2B

Ahoy Mate! Go Pirate and Gary.


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## john fallon

In the blog's picture of the dog running the blind in the third series, does that dog look like it is on "line"as indicated by the _line to the blind _drawn on an earlier picture in the_ report_, yet the accompanying comment says, "...showing how it's done".

Perhaps the words _relatively speaking _were left out .

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder regards

john


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## gsc

DenverB2B said:


> Ahoy Mate! Go Pirate and Gary.


Cheering for Pirate and Gary all the way.


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## jeff t.

john fallon said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder


or in the eye of the behandler


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## thunderdan

So true, as is sometimes it is all a matter of luck of the draw, or in this case, unlucky draw. After 3 series, from dog number 4 to 19, only three are left in, 5, 12, and 15. I think that this represents almost half of those who were dropped.


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## Rick_C

john fallon said:


> How many would have discribed it as a _channel blind_??
> John


I'm glad you asked because I was wondering where the channel was myself but thought maybe
I'd missed something!


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## DEDEYE

gsc said:


> Cheering for Pirate and Gary all the way.


I am cheering for them 2! And Kimber..


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## Juli H

A great big cheer and Yip Yip for Yakity and Linda....Go Brown! 

and keep on trucking Roy and Willy!

Juli


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## john fallon

Rick_C said:


> I'm glad you asked because I was wondering where the channel was myself but thought maybe
> I'd missed something!


Maybe its just me but.......If the line to the blind is as depicted in the picture and includes the right hand point, I dont see a channel as the place to be either before or after being on the point and still be challenging the blind. 

Of course if you are _good _getting in why risk getting out of sight arround that corner
john


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## JKL

john fallon said:


> In the blog's picture of the dog running the blind in the third series, does that dog look like it is on "line"as indicated by the _line to the blind _drawn on an earlier picture in the_ report_, yet the accompanying comment says, "...showing how it's done".
> 
> Perhaps the words _relatively speaking _were left out .
> 
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder regards
> 
> john


This dog was dropped. That should answer the question.


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## john fallon

JKL said:


> This dog was dropped. That should answer the question.


How was its marks and the rest of its blind ? 

Is that a _left hand _angle back to the _right_ cast that is being given 

john


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## JKL

john fallon said:


> How was its marks and the rest of its blind ?
> 
> Is that a _left hand _angle back to the _right_ cast that is being given
> 
> john


I did not see his work. Only know he wasn't back after the blind.


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## AmiableLabs

No one updating the Pick 'em on EE?


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## Chris Atkinson

AmiableLabs said:


> No one updating the Pick 'em on EE?


Good point.

ON Behalf of RTF and the retriever community:

Stacey Beason, Shayne, David and all the good folks at Dogs Afield/Entry Express....

THANK YOU for taking the time to provide the enjoyable "Pick'em" game.

We realize you have demanding jobs in demanding economic times, so the time you put into updating this game is greatly appreciated by the retriever public.

Sincerely, Chris Atkinson


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## Gun_Dog2002

Blue is the amount of blogs posted, yellow is read. Pretty cool stats from google reader

/Paul


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## K G

Chris Atkinson said:


> Good point.
> 
> ON Behalf of RTF and the retriever community:
> 
> Stacey Beason, Shayne, David and all the good folks at Dogs Afield/Entry Express....
> 
> THANK YOU for taking the time to provide the enjoyable "Pick'em" game.
> 
> We realize you have demanding jobs in demanding economic times, so the time you put into updating this game is greatly appreciated by the retriever public.
> 
> Sincerely, Chris Atkinson


_Priceless_....and amen....;-)

kg


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## jeff t.

john fallon said:


> In the blog's picture of the dog running the blind in the third series, does that dog look like it is on "line"as indicated by the _line to the blind _drawn on an earlier picture in the_ report_, yet the accompanying comment says, "...showing how it's done".


 
It certainly looks like a channel to me (i.e. narrow and long)...not a straight channel, but a channel nonetheless. Also, I assume that the photo is taken from an angle since the photographers are not at the line while the dog is running. So it is impossible to tell from the photo if the dog is online or not. Furthermore, it appears to me that the dog may well be inside the corridor of the blind. I'd be willing to bet that the end of the blind was the issue, since reports are that shifting winds caused problems for dogs that were on the upwind side of the blind at the end


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## FOM

Well there is some information finally being posted....dog 25 started, 1 handle so far....list is updated.


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## Darin Westphal

just curious, but we're thinking of heading up to watch a bit tomorrow and wondering what the fifth series will typically entail. Ideally we'd like to see 2 series (completion of one and start of another), anyone want to venture a guess to whether or not that might happen and what those series may be?

Thanks!!


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## K G

I'd guess another series of land marks and a blind (not in combination).....my _guess_, mind you....;-)

kg


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## FOM

Vickie's Blog via WRC said:


> ...there have been four handles on this test thus far, those numbers being 30, 37, 46, and 52. IN addition, #47 required help from the guns on the long middle bird.


Summary list has been updated - note, I am up to my eyeballs at work, so I'm a little slow on getting the list updated, but I'm trying....

FOM


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## EdA

Tuck said:


> just curious, but we're thinking of heading up to watch a bit tomorrow and wondering what the fifth series will typically entail. !


historically the 5th is land marks, probably a triple but a quad is a possibility


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## K G

A picture of the 4th series is now up....

kg


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## AmiableLabs

I just talked to a friend at the trial. He says the judges are getting answers. About 20% are handling and 20% are getting big hunts.

He said the first dog to run with Lynn DuBose smacked it. No other dogs have done as well.

He doubts they will compete the test today, everything would have to go perfect and there is a thunderstorm staring them down.


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## FOM

If I'm doing things right, this is what I have so far for the 4th: 

**** Deleted ****


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## Lucky Seven

Tuck said:


> just curious, but we're thinking of heading up to watch a bit tomorrow and wondering what the fifth series will typically entail. Ideally we'd like to see 2 series (completion of one and start of another), anyone want to venture a guess to whether or not that might happen and what those series may be?
> 
> Thanks!!


My contact there said ..... they will finish water mark series tomorrow morning, then start a land marking test.

Chad


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## AmiableLabs

Tuck said:


> just curious, but we're thinking of heading up to watch a bit tomorrow and wondering what the fifth series will typically entail. Ideally we'd like to see 2 series (completion of one and start of another), anyone want to venture a guess to whether or not that might happen and what those series may be?


Tomorrow would be an excellent day to visit and see dog work. You will have water marks in the morning, and land marks following.

HOWEVER, if my memory serves me correctly, Wednesday is the night of the Worker's Party, so they will pull up the trial early.


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## FOM

*** deleted ***


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## john fallon

jeff t. said:


> It certainly looks like a channel to me (i.e. narrow and long)...not a straight channel, but a channel nonetheless. Also, I assume that the photo is taken from an angle since the photographers are not at the line while the dog is running. So it is impossible to tell from the photo if the dog is online or not. Furthermore, it appears to me that the dog may well be inside the corridor of the blind. I'd be willing to bet that the end of the blind was the issue, since reports are that shifting winds caused problems for dogs that were on the upwind side of the blind at the end


Of course it's a channel, but in "FT Parlance" is it what is normally considered a "Channel Blind"

Assume what you will but............. the picture (s), no matter what angles they were taken from, one has a line superimposed on it that can easly be mentaly transfered to the other pctures. This line is identified by the writer as the_ line to the blind_ and the accompanying written description narrates the course of the "Blind" as being along this line-- making the dog in question 10 or 15 yds off the "line".

As for still being in the corridor...If the corridor of the blind is 20 or 30 yd wide your point is well taken.

Picture a dog out of the water and on land 30' (10 yds) to the right of the point indicated by the line drawn over it as being "the point on the right"............ 

john


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> Of course it's a channel, but in "FT Parlance" is it what is normally considered a "Channel Blind"


so what and who cares.........seems to have been a pretty difficult 1st water blind

I seriously doubt the dogs viewed it as a "channel blind" otherwise many of the dogs at this level of competition would have lined through the water


----------



## john fallon

Was it running water or swimming water ?

john


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> Was it running water or swimming water ?
> 
> john


does it really matter?, all dogs ran the same blind.....


----------



## jeff t.

john fallon said:


> Was it running water or swimming water ?
> 
> john


It was wet water


----------



## K G

jeff t. said:


> It was wet water


   :BIG:

_That_ was _*funny*_ regards, :wink:

kg


----------



## Shayne Mehringer

jeff t. said:


> It was wet water


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## AmiableLabs

Consider this --

89 still playing after the third, and we could see several lost after the fourth, let's say just for argument they get down to 75 dogs.

Six more series, four more days, to score 75 dogs? That is nice! Plenty of time, plenty of work to sort out the best.


----------



## john fallon

Shayne Mehringer said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Look man, you don't have time to be laughing at jokes, get over to EE and get that pick-um updated

john


----------



## EdA

AmiableLabs said:


> four more days, to score 75 dogs? That is nice! Plenty of time, plenty of work to sort out the best.


nice, but can they afford this level of attrition, do the standards change, are the tests easier, or have they just gotten rid of the dogs who had no legitimate chance to finish.....


----------



## john fallon

EdA said:


> does it really matter?, all dogs ran the same blind.....


It would only mater to *me*, If it were running water and *my dog *did not hear my whistle, otherwise it and all the rest just makes for good _talking points_

john


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> It would only mater to *me*, If it were running water and *my dog *did not hear my whistle, otherwise it and all the restjust makes for a _talking points_
> 
> john


if "your" dog would not answer a whistle in lunging water at 60 yards it would probably not have qualified for the National Amateur Retriever Championship........;-)


----------



## AmiableLabs

EdA said:


> nice, but can they afford this level of attrition, do the standards change, are the tests easier, or have they just gotten rid of the dogs who had no legitimate chance to finish.....


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing especially with the fifth still looming. And I have been watching the names of the dogs having trouble in the fourth.

But the main thing is they should not have to resort to penciling dogs out. And that is always a good thing.


----------



## john fallon

EdA said:


> nice, but can they afford this level of attrition, do the standards change, are the tests easier, or have they just gotten rid of the dogs who had no legitimate chance to finish.....


Have we hit on a subject you deam worthy of discussing or are you just asking rhetorically ?

john


----------



## thunderdan

EdA said:


> nice, but can they afford this level of attrition, do the standards change, are the tests easier, or have they just gotten rid of the dogs who had no legitimate chance to finish.....


I was wondering this exact thing. I would hope that the tests do not lighten up. From what I have heard, the tests at a National are to get more difficult as they progress. From what I have heard being the key phrase, as I have never been to a National nor qualified.


----------



## john fallon

EdA said:


> if "your" dog would not answer a whistle in lunging water at 60 yards it would probably not have qualified for the National Amateur Retriever Championship........;-)


*You* said answer, I said hear

john


----------



## FOM

***** deleted *****


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> Have we hit on a subject you deam worthy of discussing or are you just asking rhetorically ?
> 
> john


Only trying to consider the field trial the way officials and judges are thinking, they know the quality of the dogs and the quality of the upcoming tests, maintaining consistency in drops is one of the big challenges of judging a National

Been There Regards


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> *You* said answer, I said hear
> 
> john


you cannot answer if you choose not to hear...


----------



## john fallon

EdA said:


> Only trying to consider the field trial the way officials and judges are thinking, they know the quality of the dogs and the quality of the upcoming tests, *maintaining consistency in drops is one of the big challenges of judging a National
> *Been There Regards


I'm sorry to hear that

Wouldn't *it* be more meaningfull, if you just tested them in a becoming manner and let the chips fall where they may ?

john


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> I'm sorry to hear that
> 
> Wouldn't *it* be more meaningfull, if you just tested them in a becoming manner and let the chips fall where they may ?
> 
> john


nice thought IN THEORY, but when one's butt is on the line in front of the entire field trial world who among us has the confidence...........

hence the tradition of generosity in callbacks but at a National when you make a mistake is often more important than what the mistake is/was, i.e. an early handle should impose no more penalty than a late handle but such is not always the case


----------



## john fallon

EdA said:


> you cannot answer if you choose not to hear...


Weren't they "grasshopper's" last words ?

Hong Kong fooie regards

john


----------



## EdA

john fallon said:


> Weren't they "grasshopper's" last words ?
> 
> Hong Kong fooie regards
> 
> john


the myth that dogs cannot hear the whistle in lunging water is perpetuated by those who never require them to answer, indeed there are many factors involved (distance from the handler, depth of water, direction and speed of wind) but to make a blanket assumption that dogs do not hear the whistle in lunging water is absurd, given the conditions sometimes they cannot hear the whistle in swimming water or on land


----------



## DeWitt Boice

Tim West said:


> The Colorado contingency got an butt whippin! Pacer and Prime are two STRONG animals.
> 
> I would suspect that they might have had a patch of "bad Karma", usually created by shifting winds, bad lighting, time of day, etc. Nationals can be very cruel to dog teams, particularly if your number is early with dead hen pheasants.
> 
> I feel very badly for Barb and DeWitt. Keep your heads up, gang! You at least got to the dance!


 

Tim thanks for the vote of confidence
But Pacer couldn’t find a derby single all week
A dog that didn’t hunt a bird all spring forgot how to mark

Pacer watched the first bird down
Returning from the flyer, he locked in on the mark
His ears were up, his focus was solid, I sent him

On the way to the bird, Pacer decided to show how fast he is
And showed how much ground those long legs of his can cover
(Before he picked up the bird)
The Judges were not impressed

So now we are back home watching the game on the computer
With the rest of you all


----------



## FOM

DeWitt Boice said:


> Tim thanks for the vote of confidence
> But Pacer couldn’t find a derby single all week
> A dog that didn’t hunt a bird all spring forgot how to mark
> 
> Pacer watched the first bird down
> Returning from the flyer, he locked in on the mark
> His ears were up, his focus was solid, I sent him
> 
> On the way to the bird, Pacer decided to show how fast he is
> And showed how much ground those long legs of his can cover
> (Before he picked up the bird)
> The Judges were not impressed
> 
> So now we are back home watching the game on the computer
> With the rest of you all


He is fast!!! Still think of that water blind at Cheyenne when he covered not only land, but water just as fast to get the poison bird....silly Pacer. 

Congrats on qualifying....I'm still dreaming....

FOM


----------



## john fallon

EdA said:


> the myth that dogs cannot hear the whistle in lunging water is perpetuated by those who never require them to answer, indeed there are many factors involved (distance from the handler, depth of water, direction and speed of wind) but to make a blanket assumption that dogs do not hear the whistle in lunging water is absurd, given the conditions sometimes they cannot hear the whistle in swimming water or on land


In matters of dog training and running I make it a practice to seldom say never.
I see no reason to vary from that position with regard to a dogs ability to hear.

As you said there are quite a few things that hamper to some degree, a dogs ability to hear a whistle .
It is no myth, at whatever the distance, lunging/running in shallow water is *one *of them.

I stand by my original statement in answer to your "why does it matter" post. 

It would matter to me *if my dog was not able to hear my whistle* because of the running/lunging water.

So other than being "wet" do we know the depth of the water

john


----------



## lablover

Anyone know how Creek Robber did in the 4th?

THANKS!


----------



## AmiableLabs

lablover said:


> Anyone know how Creek Robber did in the 4th?


No mention on the blog usually = good news.


----------



## lablover

AmiableLabs said:


> No mention on the blog usually = good news.


113, 116 and 119 are mentioned. 117, Auggie, is not. I assume he's good for the 5th.
Go Auggie!


----------



## AmiableLabs

lablover said:


> 117, Auggie, is not. I assume he's good for the 5th.


I agree. The exception would be if he had a major hunt, which the blogger would correctly not report, given it is a subjective judgment and a decision of the judges, and the judges alone.

I am in the same boat with the Gierman's and "J.R." No report, so I assume he is good to go.


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

blog now sats 117 had a nice performance worth watching!!!!!

nice to see an old man do good.....

Brad


----------



## Gwen Jones

Thank you so much for the updates on the handles and drops. It is 8 pm EST and there has not been an update on the Retriever sight since 3:44 and I am a nervous wreck to hear about my friends. Without you, we would know nothing.


----------



## FOM

**** Deleted ****


----------



## jeff t.

Gwen Jones said:


> Thank you so much for the updates on the handles and drops. It is 8 pm EST and there has not been an update on the Retriever sight since 3:44



Um, Vickie's blog http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html has been updated approx every 10 minutes all day long and is the source of most of the info posted here.


----------



## FOM

jeff t. said:


> Um, Vickie's blog http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html has been updated approx every 10 minutes all day long and is the source of most of the info posted here.


Yup, plus a few PMs with her to make sure the info is accurate that I have been consolidating....

FOM


----------



## AmiableLabs

Thanks Vickie! Thanks _Retriever News_ and Tina! Thanks Lainee!


----------



## FOM

I'm off to go train....which I need to do if I ever plan to make it to a National myself - will update the list when I get home....

FOM


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Norman #12 just handled.


----------



## Josh Conrad

Good grief, there had been a LOT of no birds today. Wonder if someone slipped in a few boxes of poppers to the live guns.


----------



## kiddcline

Call backs are posted on the blog.


----------



## Josh Conrad

Well, I guess all handles were not equal, lol. So, i guess one more series then the National Am starts, might have started one early.


----------



## Tim West

I wonder how Victor Garcia's dog got dropped when Lainee's count didn't even have him handling.....?


----------



## john fallon

ACEBLDRS said:


> Good grief, there had been a LOT of no birds today. Wonder if someone slipped in a few boxes of poppers to the live guns.


There has been two marking series and how many no birds ?

john


----------



## Lynn Moore

Quite a few dogs were dropped without handles.....hasn't that always been a controversy on here, only counting handles as mistakes? Big hunts looked many times worse yesterday than a quick handle. Guess the judges thought so, too. Half the field cut going into the fifth, the judges can do whatever they want now.
LM


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

It says alot about the quality of the judging and the grounds, when after the fourth series of a national, only one of the marks and none of the blinds have exceeded 250 yards (YET) and they have managed to cut over half of the dogs. 

That fourth series was a pretty test.......at least thru the computer screen

I'm guessing opinions might have been a lil different in the holding blind.

Brad


----------



## john fallon

moorelabs said:


> Quite a few dogs were dropped without handles.....hasn't that always been a controversy on here, only counting handles as mistakes? Big hunts looked many times worse yesterday than a quick handle. Guess the judges thought so, too. Half the field cut going into the fifth, *the judges can do whatever they want now*.
> LM


You mean like ratchet back on the testing difficulty ?

I would certinly hope not !

john


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

john fallon said:


> You mean like ratchet back on the testing difficulty ?
> 
> I would certinly hope not !
> 
> john



I kinda took it to mean that if the judges want to hammer'em with a big test that takes time, they have the luxury now to do it.

perception regards
Brad


----------



## BonMallari

ACEBLDRS said:


> Well, I guess all handles were not equal, lol. So, i guess one more series then the National Am starts, might have started one early.





Tim West said:


> I wonder how Victor Garcia's dog got dropped when Lainee's count didn't even have him handling.....?


and although he might be the sentimental favorite Auggie handled in the first and is still around....hmmmmm 

Five picks left with two scratches


----------



## Scott Greenwood

I am a nube when it comes to the trial games. Wo they start every morning give good wheather at 7:30-8. I was thinking of running up tomorrow to take a look.


----------



## ryanps18

would someone be able or willing to give me the location or directions to the grounds that the trial is held on. I am going to be in the area on Friday and would like to sit back and watch a few runs. 

thanks

Ryan


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

BonMallari said:


> and although he might be the sentimental favorite Auggie handled in the first and is still around....hmmmmm


In an earlier test that apparently was much easier. I was a lil shocked when I noticed he was still around.


----------



## tshuntin

Anyone know what happened to dog #37 to be scratched this morning?


----------



## FOM

*** Deleted ***


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

The old man, #57 Bingo must have gotten thru it,

I hope so, not only is he chocolate but he's a pretty cool old dog.

no news is good news regards
Brad


----------



## dixiedog

BonMallari said:


> and although he might be the sentimental favorite Auggie handled in the first and is still around....hmmmmm


Don't start dissin' the old man

A lot of dogs went to the 2nd with a handle in the 1st series. Without being there, I would guess that Auggie is still around because he is the only dog (of those that handled in the 1st) that has smacked every series since.


----------



## lablover

Bingo has done a "great job" according to Steve.


----------



## FOM

**** Deleted ****


Have to say Vickie's Blog is pretty darn awesome - lots of pictures, good updates! Thanks Vickie!


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

FOM said:


> *** Deleted by FOM (as sudo-moderator) to keep the confussion down on stats ***
> 
> Have to say Vickie's Blog is pretty darn awesome - lots of pictures, good updates! Thanks Vickie!


No argument here, every chance I get to walk by the comp I hit the refresh and there is usually an update.



ACEBLDRS said:


> Good grief, there had been a LOT of no birds today. Wonder if someone slipped in a few boxes of poppers to the live guns.


Looks like they might still be handing out popper blanks


----------



## JusticeDog

tshuntin said:


> Anyone know what happened to dog #37 to be scratched this morning?


Cody went out... charlie apparently didn't feel that Dusty had done well in the 4th.... ??? not the first time he's left a national early.... that man is playing for the big title, or not at all!!! Charlie has great dogs.


----------



## AmiableLabs

For those asking about stake info so they can visit here you go --

http://working-retriever.com/09narc/stakeinfo.htm

Show up at the headquarters and there will be maps and other pertinent information.

Let me encourage you as strongly as I can -- GO! If you are a working retriever fan, there is nothing else like it. 

Bring a chair, prepare for any weather, and remember the event is "formal" by comparison to weekend trials. Be polite, considerate, keep the noise down. This is the big kahuna, no one wants to spoil it for anyone else.


----------



## Karen McCullah

Dukdawg said:


> Looks like they might still be handing out popper blanks


From what I've seen on the blog, the wind keeps changing, so I imagine it's pretty tough on those gunners.

Actually, I'd like to thank ALL the volunteers who put on these nationals. Not only do they put in all the time, but it's pretty expensive to take a week off and pay for all expenses out of your own pocket, travel to and from, meals and lodging for a week....Lord knows I'd love to do it, but there's no way I can afford it.

Thanks to everyone working their tails off this week!


----------



## AmiableLabs

RE: No Birds

My source said the no-birds yesterday were not so much from the guns missing the birds but the birds flying in the wrong direction (toward the line and therefore falling out of the correct AOF).


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Way to go Pogo. Good job lil girl.


----------



## Roger Perry

*** Deleted by FOM (as sudo-moderator) to keep the confussion down on stats ***

WRC has dog 44 out in the 4th series as well.


----------



## FOM

Roger Perry said:


> WRC has dog 44 out in the 4th series as well.


Yes - but the summary lists what the dogs did during the running of the series - not all the dropped dogs for the series....


----------



## Franco

Way to go #110 Bayou Teche Miah smacking the 5th. Just wait till she turns five years old!
Just love seeing a Cajun Riviera member do well.


----------



## FOM

***** Deleted *****


----------



## Roger Perry

FOM said:


> *** Deleted by FOM (as sudo-moderator) to keep the confussion down on stats ***


You still have #44 as being in WRC has #44 as out in the 4th.


----------



## AmiableLabs

It seems to me if they could stop with the no-birds, they could get this series done before the worker's party tonight.


----------



## FOM

Roger Perry said:


> You still have #44 as being in WRC has #44 as out in the 4th.


Okay, you mean on the other list....got it!


----------



## Franco

#109 just had his rerun after the no bird, stepped on all four. According to one of the other contestants, "best job so far in the 5th".


----------



## Roger Perry

FOM said:


> Okay, you mean on the other list....got it!


You do not have #44 Roz out on your summary list


----------



## Dogtrainer4God

Franco said:


> Way to go #110 Bayou Teche Miah smacking the 5th. Just wait till she turns five years old!
> Just love seeing a Cajun Riviera member do well.


She is one SWEET little dog. In her first national, I had her as my tie breaker, which I usually reserve for the dog I don't know a lot about - she went 9 series. So I fell in love with her and picked her again in the last national - she was a finalist..... Good luck Miah!!!


----------



## FOM

Roger Perry said:


> You do not have #44 Roz out on your summary list


Yes 44 is there listed in the 4th series as dogs dropped....


----------



## Franco

Dogtrainer4God said:


> She is one SWEET little dog. In her first national, I had her as my tie breaker, which I usually reserve for the dog I don't know a lot about - she went 9 series. So I fell in love with her and picked her again in the last national - she was a finalist..... Good luck Miah!!!


Just think if she were with a real trainer instead of her owner who is training his first dog!


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Franco,

I hope you are joking right?????? Anyone who trains a FC/AFC and national finalist is doing something right. 

LT


----------



## Karen McCullah

AmiableLabs said:


> It seems to me if they could stop with the no-birds, they could get this series done before the worker's party tonight.


Ok, so from what I understand, the gunners are not "missing" the birds, but the AOF target is very slim plus when the wind changes, the throwers are having to throw into the wind. This is also making it dangerous when the other station is very close to them.

I've heard the gunners and throwers are very skilled, just an issue with the wind affecting the tests I guess. Even though it's making for a long test, it's making for a FAIR test when they are aiming at getting the AOF right for EVERY dog.


----------



## Franco

Lonny Taylor said:


> Franco,
> 
> I hope you are joking right??????
> 
> LT


Of course! Look at my emicon after the sentence. I use this when joking


----------



## EdA

Wiredlabz said:


> it's making for a FAIR test when they are aiming at getting the AOF right for EVERY dog.


well kinda but you cannot erase from a dog's memory a flyer that goes behind the guns and the added scent behind the guns builds up and creates more problems as the day wears on

sometimes no birds help the dogs and sometimes they hurt the dogs but they always affect them in some way

not being there it would be difficult to comment on anything mechanical, all of the people there are very experienced, successfully throwing a duck into the wind requires a hard low throw


----------



## kiddcline

Bad news for Cutter. Someone needs to shoot that bird.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Wiredlabz said:


> Ok, so from what I understand, the gunners are not "missing" the birds, but the AOF target is very slim plus when the wind changes, the throwers are having to throw into the wind. This is also making it dangerous when the other station is very close to them.


First, my source was speaking about yesterday. I don't know today. Second, I wouldn't say that he said the "aof is slim," rather the birds were not cooperating by going where thrown.


----------



## David Barrow

I am sure there are many stories about many of the dogs and people at the National, and I heard many of them last week during Pre-National Training. 

One I would like to share is about a Chocolate Male 11+ years old. A few years back (more like 9 or more)his handler/trainer/owner was told that although he is a nice dog, he will never make it to become a Champion, and he should consider getting another pup if he wanted to compete.
This dog has now picked up over 25 AA Points Qualified for 2 Consecutive National Amateurs, Won the last weekend stake he was entered in and ran a near perfect 5 series at this years National Amateur. Although he has a tough time getting back and takes a while to return because of his age, on the way out he still runs with enthusiasm. We all know of the limits because of age, but the heart and willingness for teamwork are truly magnified by their work together at this National Amateur. 

Way to Go! BINGO! Good Luck Steve

Thanks to ALL the Organizers and Workers that are making this years National Amateur a Success. Thank you to Everyone in our Pre-National Training, it was a GREAT Time and Experience, what a Privilage it was to meet and be with all of you.

Good Luck to Everyone Still Competing
David Barrow


----------



## Gwen Pleasant

Very well put....Steve and Bingo are an awesome team.. and at this point no one has done the 5th series as well as them...


----------



## lablover

They are going to stop with dog 34 tonight.
Workers party is tonight.


----------



## thunderdan

Nice post David, and congrats to you and Chester for getting to the dance. I was pulling for you....


----------



## Goldenboy

David Barrow said:


> One I would like to share is about a Chocolate Male 11+ years old. A few years back (more like 9 or more)his handler/trainer/owner was told that although he is a nice dog, he will never make it to become a Champion, and he should consider getting another pup if he wanted to compete.
> This dog has now picked up over 25 AA Points Qualified for 2 Consecutive National Amateurs, Won the last weekend stake he was entered in and ran a near perfect 5 series at this years National Amateur. Although he has a tough time getting back and takes a while to return because of his age, on the way out he still runs with enthusiasm. We all know of the limits because of age, but the heart and willingness for teamwork are truly magnified by their work together at this National Amateur.
> 
> Way to Go! BINGO! Good Luck Steve
> 
> David Barrow


I had the great pleasure, along with Pat Martin, of judging Steve and Bingo to their most recent Amateur win. Although Bingo was, to be kind, methodical in his efforts, it was the best exhibition of marking that I have ever seen and there was absolutely no doubt as to the winner. All four series were tough, long, challenging marks and blinds and, at eleven years old, that little choco dog just kept plugging.

I also wish good luck to Steve and Bingo.


----------



## john fallon

David Barrow said:


> I am sure there are many stories about many of the dogs and people at the National, and I heard many of them last week during Pre-National Training.
> 
> One I would like to share is about a Chocolate Male 11+ years old. A few years back (more like 9 or more)his handler/trainer/owner was told that although he is a nice dog, he will never make it to become a Champion, and he should consider getting another pup if he wanted to compete.
> This dog has now picked up over 25 AA Points Qualified for 2 Consecutive National Amateurs, Won the last weekend stake he was entered in and ran a near perfect 5 series at this years National Amateur. Although he has a tough time getting back and takes a while to return because of his age, on the way out he still runs with enthusiasm. We all know of the limits because of age, but the heart and willingness for teamwork are truly magnified by their work together at this National Amateur.
> 
> Way to Go! BINGO! Good Luck Steve
> 
> Thanks to ALL the Organizers and Workers that are making this years National Amateur a Success. Thank you to Everyone in our Pre-National Training, it was a GREAT Time and Experience, what a Privilage it was to meet and be with all of you.
> 
> Good Luck to Everyone Still Competing
> David Barrow



Nice dog, I think I remember Judging him in his first Qualifying win
DelBay in the Fall about that many years ago.
It's hard to forget a good Chocolate

Good Luck to Steve and Bingo
john


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

john fallon said:


> It's hard to forget a good Chocolate
> 
> Good Luck to Steve and Bingo
> john


Yes it is.

I watched Bingo several times during his life during training and trials as well as at a couple trials this year, it's awesome to watch a dog of his age do his job. There is no doubt about his determination, regardless of his speed. He is a neat ol' dog.

Also you could not ask for a more gracious southern gentleman than Steve. They are a great team.

Good luck to Team Bingo

Welcome Back Dave, congrats on getting to the nationals, we're all proud of you and Chester. You got some experience this year, I'm sure you'll both be better for it. Can't wait to see Chester and Smoke running this season.

Brad


----------



## MKaty Gutermuth

Dave- Well said Bingo is a nice dog and he trys real hard for Steve! I am so glad that you made it there and had a good time! Good luck this fall! Katie


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

First four dogs, three handles and a P/U and all four had been clean to this point. Conditions must be tough this morning.


----------



## Darin Westphal

I can't speak for any day previous to Wed, but having seen almost every dog that ran yesterday, the problem with the no birds really had nothing to do with the gunners. Some of those birds when thrown would take a hard left such that when shot, they were winding up on the backside of the gun station and well outside the intended AOF. When the wind would die down I don't recall any no birds, but when it would whip up, you'd have stretches of multiple. not a lot you can do I imagine but hope your not at the line when it happens


----------



## Karen McCullah

That's what I meant when I said the AOF was "slim" but I guess I didn't say that very well. You said it right, that if the flyer whipped the wrong way then they would have been aiming at the other station.
Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## FOM

*** Deleted - look at summary list ***


----------



## AmiableLabs

Callbacks are up on the Report page.

45 still playing with five series left.


----------



## jeff t.

AmiableLabs said:


> Callbacks are up on the Report page.
> 
> 45 still playing with five series left.


I don't see it there, but I do see it on the blog

http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html


----------



## AmiableLabs

Augie is gone. It is a shame.


----------



## jeff t.

AmiableLabs said:


> Augie is gone. It is a shame.


Grady and Bunny too..bummer


----------



## FOM

All I know was the split on the series this morning was brutal.... <sigh>


----------



## paul young

is it just me, or does it seem that the judges are cutting deep very early compared to other national amateurs?

generally, they haven't dropped dogs that didn't pick up until the 4th.-Paul


----------



## K G

The Retriever Report on WRC shows #35/Grady as dropped.

The Retriever Callbacks shows him as back.......

kg


----------



## AmiableLabs

paul young said:


> is it just me, or does it seem that the judges are cutting deep very early compared to other national amateurs?


I don't think it is your imagination.

But the dog work itself dictates the callbacks. So it is all relative.

I can't speak with any knowledge, but conceivably this year's field could overall be weaker than in past years. Or the tests could be tougher.

Quite often there is a big cull of the field following the fifth, and that is where we are now.


----------



## FOM

K G said:


> The Retriever Report on WRC shows #35/Grady as dropped.
> 
> The Retriever Callbacks shows him as back.......
> 
> kg


Well it is kind of like me trying to update the summary list - it is easy to miss one along the way, I say give them a chance to correct....

I know the feeling....

FOM


----------



## paul young

i was very surprised to see cuts after the 1/2 and 3rd series. i was also surprised to see a water blind for the 3rd. usually see water marks there.-Paul


----------



## BonMallari

jeff t. said:


> Grady and Bunny too..bummer


I see # 35 Grady still in it.....I also see four former National winners still running too, the defending champ may be tough to knock off his throne


----------



## FOM

#35 is out based on the callbacks listed on the report and the blog, the callback list looks to be inaccurate at this point in time - 45 dogs are back, the callback list shows 46 dogs back, my guess is they missed #35....it happens, I know....

FOM


----------



## EdA

BonMallari said:


> the defending champ may be tough to knock off his throne


the field trial just started, lots to go, he who runs strong at the end often wins


----------



## Jeffrey Bandel

#35 Grady and Chad are unfortunately on the way home. It looks like the test was a bit different this morning without the wind that existed yesterday.


----------



## Rick_C

Go Shaq!!

*Shaq Attack!!! *



#109 is shining with a beautiful initial line carried into the water and still going, now across the road, into the cover and taking the right edge of the first mound for the first whistle. A few more whistles and he has the bird. Quite a beauty. 


_posted by National Amateur Retriever Championship Blog/Vickie Lamb @ 10:31 AM _


----------



## Darin Westphal

Ironically enough...I have a picture from yesterday that's pretty much the line for the blind today! It looks just like the pix from the blog but hopefully it's a little bigger and you can see detail a bit easier (not trying to step on anyones toes).


----------



## 2tall

Where are the two little bushes the dog is supposed to stay left of? Different angle perhaps?


----------



## Darin Westphal

My picture is from yesterday...bushes weren't there then.


----------



## jeff t.

2tall said:


> Where are the two little bushes the dog is supposed to stay left of? Different angle perhaps?


This pic is more illustrative IMO 

http://www.working-retriever.com/report/uploaded_images/Sixth-Series-Test-Diagram-773933.jpg


----------



## 2tall

But where did the bushes go in Tuck's photo? I guess what i want to find out, is if they plant the bushes on the site to better outline the tests, or just use what they have. 

(small trivia here I know, but sometimes I get hung up on the details!)


----------



## Bubba

2tall said:


> But where did the bushes go in Tuck's photo? I guess what i want to find out, is if they plant the bushes on the site to better outline the tests, or just use what they have.
> 
> (small trivia here I know, but sometimes I get hung up on the details!)


The ATV tracks are also missing in Tuck's photo. Heeeeeeyyyy wayda minit- you don't suppose............

We got aliens regards

Bubba


----------



## fowlweather

From Vicky's blog description of the test:
"Two brushy shrubs have been added to the right of the line at the edge of the water and they provide an evident right-hand edge."

http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/2009_06_18_archive.html


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

No aliens then and those tracks weren't the beginnings of crop circle formations...whew!


----------



## AmiableLabs

The Report says the workers held a "duck throwing contest" before the party yesterday. Anyone know who won?


----------



## FOM

Jeffrey Bandel said:


> #35 Grady and Chad are unfortunately on the way home. It looks like the test was a bit different this morning without the wind that existed yesterday.


Okay just for all those Grady fans out there....he did go out in the 5th....sorry. Looks like WRC finally updated their list of callbacks.

FOM


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Going to the 7th.


----------



## TroyW

Go Ruby and Al.

TroyW


----------



## Roger Perry

It seems like they are ahead of schedule. If 40 dogs remain and are running the seventh series which is a land blind and that should be finished today. Tomorrow the 8th & 9th?


----------



## Joe Kuczynski

Not necessarily the 8th last year was a monster water triple that only one dog did without at least 1 huge hunt. It took all day to run. This was after a get it out of the way double land blind.


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

I would think they'll have to put up a big marking test soon, they'll most likely be taking 28 clean dogs into the 8th, plus the remaining ones with handles. 

Brad


----------



## ducky911

AmiableLabs said:


> The Report says the workers held a "duck throwing contest" before the party yesterday. Anyone know who won?



I was wondering that too. And how far? My son is in track and throws the discus(really far)---athletic scholarship to Cal Berkeley D1---always wanted to show up with him as a ringer


Bob


----------



## FOM

Looks like they are done with the 7th and everyone is back.....the 8th will start tomorrow....


----------



## David Barrow

Another 2009 National Amateur Story.
I was just told about a very special shirt and tie that was worn at this years National Amateur. I saw Dr. Jack wearing a nice tie and shirt while attending the National and just thought it was a neat and honorable way to dress. Man was that an understatement, the tie and shirt were given to him, and at the time a promise was made by Dr. Jack that should he Qualify for a National he would where them to honor the late Mr. Sweezy, whom wore the same at the Nationals he had attended.

Thanks for the information Jeff.

Good Luck to All,

David Barrow


----------



## lablover

Will the 8th be a triple or quad? It could go either way, depending on how much the judges want to reduce the field for the 9th & 10th.


----------



## Mike W.

> Another 2009 National Amateur Story.
> I was just told about a very special shirt and tie that was worn at this years National Amateur. I saw Dr. Jack wearing a nice tie and shirt while attending the National and just thought it was a neat and honorable way to dress. Man was that an understatement, the tie and shirt were given to him, and at the time a promise was made by Dr. Jack that should he Qualify for a National he would where them to honor the late Mr. Sweezy, whom wore the same at the Nationals he had attended.
> 
> Thanks for the information Jeff.
> 
> Good Luck to All,
> 
> David Barrow


Great little side story, thanks for sharing.


----------



## junbe

AmiableLabs said:


> The Report says the workers held a "duck throwing contest" before the party yesterday. Anyone know who won?



Ray Voight won. He was the first one in competition. Most refused to compete after his throw. they knew they were beaten. ray is a local boy from the range.


----------



## Guest

junbe said:


> Ray Voight won. He was the first one in competition. Most refused to compete after his throw. they knew they were beaten. ray is a local boy from the range.


I remember the first time I saw him throw a bird up at Mike's. It was ridiculous!


----------



## Roger Perry

David Barrow said:


> Another 2009 National Amateur Story.
> I was just told about a very special shirt and tie that was worn at this years National Amateur. I saw Dr. Jack wearing a nice tie and shirt while attending the National and just thought it was a neat and honorable way to dress. Man was that an understatement, the tie and shirt were given to him, and at the time a promise was made by Dr. Jack that should he Qualify for a National he would where them to honor the late Mr. Sweezy, whom wore the same at the Nationals he had attended.
> 
> Thanks for the information Jeff.
> 
> Good Luck to All,
> 
> David Barrow


Jay Sweezy was always the gentleman


----------



## AmiableLabs

junbe said:


> Ray Voight won. He was the first one in competition. Most refused to compete after his throw. they knew they were beaten. ray is a local boy from the range.


I want to see! My son can chuck a bird really far too.

The next time Ray comes down I will get him to throw one for me.


----------



## Kyle B

Kristie Wilder said:


> I remember the first time I saw him throw a bird up at Mike's. It was ridiculous!


Yeah, saw him throw hen pheasant flyers (he was throwing and shooting). I swear by the time he got the gun to his shoulder the bird was about 70 yards out and nearly that high in the air. He's a legend in bird boy circles!


----------



## jeff t.

Handle for Lynne D. and Jerry Lee...bummer


----------



## FOM

Just FYI - I have been asked to make sure we all here behind the keyboards know just because a dog is not listed without a handle it does not mean the dog is "clean" - some have big to monster hunts,etc....the guess on number of truly clean right now is about 12-15.....

FOM


----------



## AmiableLabs

FOM said:


> Just FYI - I have been asked to make sure we all here behind the keyboards know just because a dog is not listed without a handle it does not mean the dog is "clean" - some have big to monster hunts,etc....


Thanks for the reminder.

Whether a dog is "clean" is a decision left up entirely to the judges, as it should be.

All we know is who have handled. End of story.


----------



## jeff t.

FOM said:


> Just FYI - I have been asked to make sure we all here behind the keyboards know just because a dog is not listed without a handle it does not mean the dog is "clean" - some have big to monster hunts,etc....the guess on number of truly clean right now is about 12-15.....
> 
> FOM


also...the quality of the handles varies. 

Some handles are crisp and clean... others aren't.


----------



## HarryWilliams

You don't mean to say that 1 handle might be better than 2 big hunts do you? ;-) HPW


----------



## rsfavor

HarryWilliams said:


> You don't mean to say that 1 handle might be better than 2 big hunts do you? ;-) HPW


I certainly think it's possible. I believe Mark Rosenblum and Norman got dropped after the ninth last year without having a handle. I would imagine that at least one of the finalists had a handle.


----------



## lanse brown

The 1995 NARCCS that Butch Chambers, Sissy Stone and I judged in Portland Oregon had as it's winner a bitch that handled cleanly. One of the contestants who had not handled and of course thought he had won allowed his dog to hunt forever on a number of marks and what really amazed us was that the handler kept trying to seripiticiously handle his dog from line with shoulder, elbow and body movement as the dog was questing. The lack of character was evident and soon after that individual returned to Aspen, Colorado and the sport was better for his absence. I am very impressed that 3 National judges who have won many trials, made many FC/AFCs and qualified many dogs for Nationals have put up solid MARKING tests and have not resorted to trying to trick dogs with fake holding blinds, dry pops, poison birds, fake gun stands and lots of whistles and bells, purposely made atv tracks and all the other things we see on weekends from judges who are ignorant of dog behavior and impressed with their weekend assignment. God only knows that we are a dying sport due to expense,available land, possible PETA interuptions, family formations and work demands. If the quality of the weekend judging continues to deteriorate those of us who are neurotic and dedicated to training will find other trials to run outside of our geographic area. When they took out my stomach and 5" of my esophageous I wanted the BEST surgeon and the BEST operating room nurse- when I spend time, money and emotion to enter my dog I want to be sure that the judge I am running under actually knows how to train a dog and has done so recently. Thank you Linda, Lou and Pete, I have run under all of you and you know dogs, are honest and are courteous on line to the handlers-you all have given a great deal to the sport and I for one are very grateful to you three.


----------



## Aaron Homburg

*A dog from the gallery picked up the mark? Lanse, Dr. Ed has this ever happened before at a National? It happened to me one time on the golf course when a lab ran out from one of the homes and took my ball off the green and returned to his house.........got to place the ball where I thought it was....probably a lot closer.....but hey it looked really close from the rough where I was hitting it from!

Aaron*


----------



## mjh345

Well said Lanse; Thanks for sharing


----------



## Franco

Aaron Homburg said:


> *A dog from the gallery picked up the mark? Lanse, Dr. Ed has this ever happened before at a National? It happened to me one time on the golf course when a lab ran out from one of the homes and took my ball off the green and returned to his house.........got to place the ball where I thought it was....probably a lot closer.....but hey it looked really close from the rough where I was hitting it from!*
> 
> *Aaron*


A local spectator had thier dog out, watching the series when thier dog took off and made the retrieve. 

Judges are deciding if the dog or owner should be shot.


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

Interference...Oh my gosh.... How horrible you would feel if your dog got away from you and did this! I sure hope it isn't one of the dogs that was still in.


----------



## cakaiser

Well, I feel sorry for #68. Hope they let him wait a while to re-run. That could mess with a dog's head.
Also, like Lanse said, seems like the tests have been really solid.


----------



## Warren Flynt

Franco said:


> A local spectator had thier dog out, watching the series when thier dog took off and made the retrieve.
> 
> Judges are deciding if the dog or owner should be shot.


if the dog actually picked up the mark- then shoot the owner. train the dog.


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

Well, thank goodness it wasn't one of the competing dogs.

Yes, I know that can mess with a dogs head and it is unfortunate that it happened. Could have been worse, could have had a dog fight!

What ever happened to the rule that dogs not entered are not permitted on the grounds? or is that just in the Regulations and Guidelines for hunting tests?

Hopefully #68 can come back and stomp on those marks on his rerun.


----------



## limiman12

At a HT earlier this summer the Master series was waiting on a handler from another stake. Not long, just a few minutes. Well, his young dog had done quite well on her last series, and rather then taking the time to open the back end of the SUV and crate her, just let her ride in the front, we were waiting for him afterall. Well he pulls in to the parking area (that had excellent view of the test for the gallery) jumped out and got his Master dog out of the back and walks to the line. Bird one goes down, bird two goes down, suddenly everyone in the gallery if yelling......

His young dog jumped out of the window and was going to help her partner out..... He was rather embarassed. Told his dog to sit, he stayed perfect at the line. he went and picked up his other dog, put her away, called the master dog back to the holding blind, they picked up the birds he returned to the line and smacked the marks....

In the list of top five funniest things I have seen happen. Glad it was his own dog so their was no one else to blame, and glad his dog smacked the marks afterwards.


----------



## Mark Sehon

Sure you can be dropped with out a handle. My dog was dropped at the Nat. Open after the 8th with out a handle. Hunt in the 1st, and hunt on the go bird in the 8th.


----------



## GDB

lanse brown said:


> The 1995 NARCCS that Butch Chambers, Sissy Stone and I judged in Portland Oregon had as it's winner a bitch that handled cleanly. One of the contestants who had not handled and of course thought he had won allowed his dog to hunt forever on a number of marks and what really amazed us was that the handler kept trying to seripiticiously handle his dog from line with shoulder, elbow and body movement as the dog was questing. The lack of character was evident and soon after that individual returned to Aspen, Colorado and the sport was better for his absence. I am very impressed that 3 National judges who have won many trials, made many FC/AFCs and qualified many dogs for Nationals have put up solid MARKING tests and have not resorted to trying to trick dogs with fake holding blinds, dry pops, poison birds, fake gun stands and lots of whistles and bells, purposely made atv tracks and all the other things we see on weekends from judges who are ignorant of dog behavior and impressed with their weekend assignment. God only knows that we are a dying sport due to expense,available land, possible PETA interuptions, family formations and work demands. If the quality of the weekend judging continues to deteriorate those of us who are neurotic and dedicated to training will find other trials to run outside of our geographic area. When they took out my stomach and 5" of my esophageous I wanted the BEST surgeon and the BEST operating room nurse- when I spend time, money and emotion to enter my dog I want to be sure that the judge I am running under actually knows how to train a dog and has done so recently. Thank you Linda, Lou and Pete, I have run under all of you and you know dogs, are honest and are courteous on line to the handlers-you all have given a great deal to the sport and I for one are very grateful to you three.


It is amazing that Lance should bring up what he perceived an incident that happened a decade ago where that person is no longer in the game to defend himself. You could only hope that your dogs had as many points as that individual. Maybe Lance should spend more time looking in the mirror!


----------



## AmiableLabs

GDB said:


> It is amazing that Lance should bring up what he perceived an incident that happened a decade ago where that person is no longer in the game to defend himself.


In the case you did not notice, Lance did not name the person, therefore there is nothing for anyone to feel necessary to defend.


----------



## Ted Shih

AmiableLabs said:


> In the case you did not notice, Lance did not name the person, therefore there is nothing for anyone to feel necessary to defend.


Sufficient information was provided to easily identify the target of Lance's post.


----------



## Lonny Taylor

Lance,

That was 1994 not 1995. Was there and it was a great call made by Lance and his co-judges. Classic example of which is better quick clean handle or long monster hunt and as I recall out of the area but the dog did finally SOB the bird. Gordon made a great handling decision. That was only one of several good marking tests that you and your co-judges put on. 

LT


----------



## AmiableLabs

Ted Shih said:


> Sufficient information was provided to easily identify the target of Lance's post.


Very few have any clue who he is talking about, and even fewer know who it is.


----------



## Ted Shih

AmiableLabs said:


> Very few have any clue who he is talking about, and even fewer know who it is.


I suppose it makes it ok to accuse someone of cheating on a public forum because "very few have any clue who he is talking about ..."? 

Nice ethical world that you inhabit.

I am no fan of the target, but I think that the attack is unnecessary.


----------



## FOM

Guys let's take it off line (playing sudo-mod)


----------



## HarryWilliams

I like history. I like nostalgia. Right now, I'd like to know who's winning the 2009 Nat'l Am. HPW


----------



## Karen McCullah

Back to more important matters and incidentally the subject of this thread:

Can anyone clarify what happened to Molly, #73??

I'm confused because the title said a handle, then a pick up, but the detail sounded like a handle on one bird, then she picked up the long retired.

Did she pick up the last bird or did Mickey actually pick her up and call her in?


----------



## AmiableLabs

Ted Shih said:


> I suppose it makes it ok to accuse someone of cheating on a public forum because "very few have any clue who he is talking about ..."? Nice ethical world that you inhabit.


A straw man followed by an ad hominem is the best you can do? Surely a trained polemicist can do better than that! :roll:

I said Lance did not name the person, therefore no one (specifically the person he described) should feel there was anything to defend. To further back that up I point out almost no one knows who he is talking about.

That is the practical truth. Now you want to bring up the principle of Lance even telling the story. Fine, but it does not negate my practical conclusion.


----------



## Ted Shih

HarryWilliams said:


> I like history. I like nostalgia. Right now, I'd like to know who's winning the 2009 Nat'l Am. HPW


Not going to find out here

Very little information as opposed to previous years.


----------



## TroyFeeken

Should have let the gallery dog line up to pick up the other marks and see how it does


----------



## Karen McCullah

Guys, do us a favor and listen to Lainee. I have no interest in your P*&&ing contest, so either take it offline or start another thread or whatever. The rest of us want to see the National Coverage.

Thanks and have a beautiful day!


----------



## JusticeDog

TroyFeeken said:


> Should have let the gallery dog line up to pick up the other marks and see how it does


now his owner can say his dog picked up a bird at the national... got to run one series, but at least he was there..


----------



## Franco

Ted Shih said:


> Very little information as opposed to previous years.


Very true and the blog at the other site is very vague.

Someone from EntryExpress needs to cover both Nat'l and Nat'l Am in detail and feed it here to RTF.;-)

FOM's spreadsheet is very helpful in keeping up with handles. As been mentioned before, there are some dogs that haven't handled with some big gorilla hunts.


----------



## JusticeDog

Franco said:


> Very true and the blog at the other site is very vague.


I think intentionally so...


----------



## FOM

The way I see it, what little info there is, is better than no info....so be kind before we complain. It is better than a poke in the eye with a stick!


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

In the case of #68, What happens does he go to the end or wait 6 dogs as in a no bird?

No word yet on the rerun, damn what bad luck!!!!!!


----------



## Ted Shih

JusticeDog said:


> I think intentionally so...


I disagree.

In the past, pops and big hunts would not have been mentioned.

I think that the lack of diagrams has made it very difficult to assess the tests. 

Photos are ok, but do not give detail you need to really get a feel for the marks.


----------



## Franco

JusticeDog said:


> I think intentionally so...


I understand the need to not be judgemental in the blog.

Just when that twisted puppy over at EE.net was reporting, it was always good humor in his unconventional/nonPC style of reporting that I miss.


----------



## limiman12

where is the spread sheet with who has handled or not?


----------



## 2tall

Oh no, Shaq handled As far as I know that leaves only 4 of my picks without handles and two of them haven't run yet.

Limiman, look at post #51 on this thread. It has the link.


----------



## Franco

2tall said:


> Oh no, Shaq handled As far as I know that leaves only 4 of my picks without handles and two of them haven't run yet.
> 
> .


Yea but, then he came back and drilled the long water mark.

Handling may NOT be the kiss of death at this Nat'l Am because over half the dogs without handles have had some huge hunts on marks.


----------



## 2tall

I hope your right Franco. There goes Bennie, one of my last ones, handling on the boat bird


----------



## JusticeDog

Franco said:


> I understand the need to not be judgemental in the blog.
> 
> Just when that twisted puppy over at EE.net was reporting, it was always good humor in his unconventional/nonPC style of reporting that I miss.


That's why I think it was intentional... there used to be someone's interpretation of the tests, and that's what used to upset people... 

Vickie is carefully choosing her words.... rightly so... the reporters aren't choosing the winner. Love what they can give us. They are keeping it more factually based than previous...

But, I love the photos, especially Tina's arrows.... hear we're getting diagrams in the "News"


----------



## Ted Shih

JusticeDog said:


> But, I love the photos, especially Tina's arrows.... hear we're getting diagrams in the "News"


In the past, we got diagrams with the daily report.


----------



## Franco

JusticeDog said:


> hear we're getting diagrams in the "News"




I had to teach someone to "text" with their phone so that I could get reports on some dogs of interest.


----------



## Ted Shih

Wonder if this means that we will have 9 and 10 tomorrow?


----------



## Franco

Ted Shih said:


> Wonder if this means that we will have 9 and 10 tomorrow?


No, 9 will start today. Workers are already setting it up.

Dog 1 just handled, sheet!


----------



## Darin Westphal

not to get off topic but..

just curious (coming at this as a guy who plays the hunt test game), I haven't seen any instances in the past of trial judges using decoys. So I was surprised to read this morning that "The direct line to the bird is swimming through some decoys." per the explanation of the 8th series on working-retriever. How often do you encounter decoys being used at trials?


----------



## limiman12

Thanks 2tall and FOM. I have a friend with a litter of Pirate pups that just hit the ground.... I told him I might not be in a hurry to sell the last two if I was him......


----------



## JusticeDog

Ted Shih said:


> In the past, we got diagrams with the daily report.


I know... and for the National OPen, I would download them in PDF format.... i have them in a binder.


----------



## lablover

If anyone at the Natl Am can get a close up picture of dog 15, I would appreciate you emailing it to me via PM. I've just found out that he is the brother of my dog, in the avatar. 

MANY, many thanks!!


----------



## Frenchy

So who has a guess on how many dogs they'll lose in the 8th?

I'm guessing 12!


----------



## lablover

Frenchy said:


> So who has a guess on how many dogs they'll lose in the 8th?
> 
> I'm guessing 12!


Do you think that dogs, clean to this series, that now have a handle, will be dropped??


----------



## Frenchy

its purely a guess, but yeah I'd imagine some of those that have a handle and some not so good hunts along the way may be on the bubble. Its getting late in the game!


----------



## Franco

Frenchy said:


> So who has a guess on how many dogs they'll lose in the 8th?
> 
> I'm guessing 12!


I'm guessing 20-23.

Lablover, define "clean". Yes, there will be dogs dropped that have not handled prior to the 8th series. I spoke to someone that hadn't handled prior to the 8th and thinks thier dog will not be called back to the 9th.


----------



## John Robinson

Tuck said:


> not to get off topic but..
> 
> just curious (coming at this as a guy who plays the hunt test game), I haven't seen any instances in the past of trial judges using decoys. So I was surprised to read this morning that "The direct line to the bird is swimming through some decoys." per the explanation of the 8th series on working-retriever. How often do you encounter decoys being used at trials?


I can't remember the exact wording, but you are encouraged to use decoys in at least one series in an AA FT.

John


----------



## lablover

Franco said:


> I'm guessing 20-23.
> 
> Lablover, define "clean". Yes, there will be dogs dropped that have not handled prior to the 8th series. I spoke to someone that hadn't handled prior to the 8th and thinks thier dog will not be called back to the 9th.


Clean might be, very small if any hunt on marks, very good blinds with no refusals. Maybe better said as a "solid performance" to the 8th.
I would expect a double handle in the 8th, sadly might be a ticket home, but any dog that has gotten this far has had a great run.
Best of luck to the remaining teams!


----------



## jeff t.

Looks like 22 dogs are back


----------



## AmiableLabs

Franco said:


> Lablover, define "clean". Yes, there will be dogs dropped that have not handled prior to the 8th series.


Apparently dog #76 is an example.


----------



## Franco

AmiableLabs said:


> Apparently dog #76 is an example.


I was told that there were some handles that were not reported on the blog. I don't know about 76 being one of them.

They are moving to Gary McIlwains to begin the 9th.

BTW, Gary will be judging our Open in October. Y'all come on down and run.


----------



## Frenchy

looks like only two dogs that handled in the 8th made it back to the 9th.


----------



## Riverdog SC

Anybody got "the word on the street" as to which dogs are the contenders?


----------



## lablover

Sadly, the "old man", # 57, Bingo was not called back. 
What a valient effort by a 11.5 yo chocolate dog. 
I know Steve is disappointed, but he'll be the first to say how proud of Bingo he is, regardless.

Your Virginia dog training buddies are proud of you both! 
Drive safely coming home.

BTW, he has 3 other chocolates in training, so ya'll will see him again.


----------



## Gwen Jones

I know that 22 are back to the 9th and they are starting tonight! Any word on call backs since they have already been announced there? I know that Jimmy Darnell with Diamond is one of the call backs because Debbie left the message and said they were on their way to the 9th.


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

CALL BACKS TO THE 9TH

3, 15, 21, 22, 24, 26, 27, 28, 34, 50, 53, 68, 71, 72, 80, 85, 95, 102, 105, 106, 107, 109


Dog #34 starts the next test.


----------



## jeff t.

Gwen Jones said:


> I know that 22 are back to the 9th and they are starting tonight! Any word on call backs since they have already been announced there? I know that Jimmy Darnell with Diamond is one of the call backs because Debbie left the message and said they were on their way to the 9th.


Gwen,

The callbacks are on Vickie's blog
http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/blog.html


----------



## FOM

Sorry guys - little slow, the list is updated through the 8th series callbacks - I will be out all evening (graduation tonight  ) So you will have to live with updates in the morning.....night!


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

FOM said:


> Sorry guys - little slow, the list is updated through the 8th series callbacks - I will be out all evening (graduation tonight  ) So you will have to live with updates in the morning.....night!


Congrats on the graduation, thanks for your efforts and updates, they are enjoyable.

Brad


----------



## Tom Watson

The ninth has started according to the blog. Anybody know the set-up?


----------



## Guest

Am I the only one that gets knots in my stomach watching the last couple of series evolve on the internet???


----------



## Suzanne Burr

Looks Like Michael Moore and Brook are doing A-Ok. She's a really nice girl. Occasionally I wish I could go back to when she was a pup and I had a chance to buy her from Mike Bassett--he said she'd go far. Oh, well. Love my fluffies. 
Suzanne B


----------



## Jay Dufour

Go Jimmie Darnell !!!!!!!!


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

Kristie Wilder said:


> Am I the only one that gets knots in my stomach watching the last couple of series evolve on the internet???


No your not alone, the reports can't come fast enough. At this stage I hate to see any of the dogs get P/U or dropped. What a ride to get this far.

Brad


----------



## Jason E.

Jay Dufour said:


> Go Jimmie Darnell !!!!!!!!


I agree go Jimmie and Diamond


----------



## firehouselabs

Anyone else pulling for Kristie's pup Shock? Come one boy, make momma proud!


----------



## AmiableLabs

The last of my favorites is Joanne and "Sailor," whom I noticed once again Vickie skipped over commenting on in her blog.


----------



## Franco

Suzanne Burr said:


> Looks Like Michael Moore and Brook are doing A-Ok. She's a really nice girl. Occasionally I wish I could go back to when she was a pup and I had a chance to buy her from Mike Bassett--he said she'd go far. Oh, well. Love my fluffies.
> Suzanne B


Lynn has to be excited, go Brooke.

Her litter by Shaq will be a litter to watch!


----------



## jeff t.

Tom Watson said:


> The ninth has started according to the blog. Anybody know the set-up?



Land triple


----------



## cakaiser

I'm pulling for Shock, because I know him, and he is a character. 
Also pulling for Skeeter, because we bred her, hope she finishes.


----------



## jeff t.

Nice photo of 9th series...lots of white coats at each station

http://www.working-retriever.com/report/uploaded_images/Ninth-Series-Diagram-794924.jpg


----------



## Guest

cakaiser said:


> I'm pulling for Shock, because I know him, and he is a character.
> (snip)


ME TOO!!! He's the last of my puppies left. They all made to the 8th. I'm so proud of them!


----------



## Santee Sunrise

Go Rough!!!


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Way to go Pogo. Good job lil girl.


----------



## 2tall

Rough rules! He has been a favorite of mine, and the only time I ever saw hin was on one of the AKC Vids they used to do!


----------



## YardleyLabs

2tall said:


> Rough rules! He has been a favorite of mine, and the only time I ever saw hin was on one of the AKC Vids they used to do!


With a litter of Rough pups due in three weeks I''m rootin' for Rough! Down to only 5 plus a tiebreaker still running from my EE Picks.


----------



## Gwen Jones

just talked to Debbie and Jimmy and they finished the 9th. He said Diamond had a small hunt on one bird and did a REALLY nice job on the others. They are on to the 10th we hope. She said that so far, 1/2 or so of the dogs have run and there have been 2 handles and a pick up but she could not tell me who.


----------



## Troopers Mom

Gwen Jones said:


> just talked to Debbie and Jimmy and they finished the 9th. He said Diamond had a small hunt on one bird and did a REALLY nice job on the others. They are on to the 10th we hope. She said that so far, 1/2 or so of the dogs have run and there have been 2 handles and a pick up but she could not tell me who.



Gwen,

#50 was a handle and then a pick up. #72 has a handle.

I'm pulling for Pirate and Kimber. My stomach is in knots for them, especially with the storm approaching when Pirate ran. He did good. Kimber has got to be the youngest dog out there at 3 1/2. Her first time there and doing fantastic so far. 

Arleen


----------



## Troopers Mom

Shaq just ran and got all the birds and they are quitting. Storm is fast approaching. Will continue tomorrow. The suspense is killing me. 

Arleen


----------



## Lynn Moore

Franco said:


> Lynn has to be excited, go Brooke.
> 
> Her litter by Shaq will be a litter to watch!



No one has ever owned Brook but us Suzanne, she was an eight week old when we got her and we loved her from the get-go. Thank-you Gray Snipes & Billy Sargenti!!!!
and thank-you Franco, both Brook and Shaq are finalists. He hammered the ninth!
Lynn


----------



## oaklandbay

Any word on #15 Pilot and Wayne. I know no news is generally good news but its killing me here


----------



## YardleyLabs

oaklandbay said:


> Any word on #15 Pilot and Wayne. I know no news is generally good news but its killing me here


Won't run the 9th until tomorrow according to the blog.


----------



## oaklandbay

Thanks Jeff I just ran through it all. I hope that handle in the 5th doesn't come back to bite him.


----------



## Dogtrainer4God

Apparently, Bayou Tech Miah wasn't called back to the 9th......I see she had a handle, anybody know the story?

Abby


----------



## lablover

I saw where 1 dog with 1 handle was dropped and another with 1 handle continues on.
What's with that?


----------



## AmiableLabs

lablover said:


> I saw where 1 dog with 1 handle was dropped and another with 1 handle continues on. What's with that?


We aren't there, we can't see the hunts.

The judges are there, and can see the hunts.

As it should be.


----------



## Franco

Dogtrainer4God said:


> Apparently, Bayou Tech Miah wasn't called back to the 9th......I see she had a handle, anybody know the story?
> 
> Abby


Yes.

Spoke with Steve right after she ran. They gave it thier best shot. Steve was going farm pond fishing for the remainder of the day.

Cajun Louisiana is proud of he and Miah!
I'm sure all the members of the Cajun Riviera Club are.
They'll be back for at least for their third Nat'l Am., she turns 5 in August.

I told him that the National Am was too easy for her and that she'll finish the National in November. Which, she did last November.

She's a fine marking bitch! I'm shocked she went out on marks.


----------



## jeff t.

lablover said:


> I saw where 1 dog with 1 handle was dropped and another with 1 handle continues on.
> What's with that?


This was discussed earlier today on this thread.

I presume there were differences in the overall performance of the two dogs. 

We don't know which dogs had hunts and how bad those hunts were. 

When a dog is handled, we don't know if it was quick and clean or if it occurred after a protracted hunt.


----------



## Karen McCullah

moorelabs said:


> and thank-you Franco, both Brook and Shaq are finalists. He hammered the ninth!
> Lynn


Are they considered finalists if they make it to the ninth series? They don't have to finish the whole shebang?
I thought they are a finalist if they finish but don't win. I'm confused!!


----------



## jeff t.

Wiredlabz said:


> Are they considered finalists if they make it to the ninth series? They don't have to finish the whole shebang?
> I thought they are a finalist if they finish but don't win. I'm confused!!


Have to pick up all of the birds in the 10th.


----------



## YardleyLabs

jeff t. said:


> Have to pick up all of the birds in the 10th.


Or at least the last series, whatever that is.


----------



## jeff t.

YardleyLabs said:


> Or at least the last series, whatever that is.


Good point, I stand corrected.


----------



## bell

one more long day!! lets go randy with TIDE..


----------



## Suzanne Burr

Hey, Lynn: I do know that Mike Bassett offered that cute little black pup to me when she was a 7wk old, but I told him no because I had bought Amy from him a few months before and I knew I couldn't afford to have two dogs in training. But aren't you glad I said no. She's really something special.
Suzanne B


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

oaklandbay said:


> Any word on #15 Pilot and Wayne. I know no news is generally good news but its killing me here


That is a very talented dog few know about.


----------



## limiman12

Go Pirate!!!!


----------



## JKL

No hunts have been reported and no detail of handles have been reported either. I can tell you there are dogs with hunts and the handles were NOT all the same. Callbacks have been pretty consistent from most viewpoints. This has been a very difficult National. Very tight marks. Just when you think it can't be any tighter they tighten up more!


----------



## Mike W.

So will the Am be decided tomorrow?


----------



## JKL

Jacob Hawkes said:


> That is a very talented dog few know about.


Pilots work has been almost flawless. He handled on the long right retired after a near pin. He rounded the mound a few feet up wind of the bird, saw how close he was to the flyer fall area (44 yds from station to station) and got the heck out of there! Wayne got on him and got him to the bird without trouble. He had already nailed 3 of the marks. His blinds have been topnotch as well.
I have my fingers crossed for the 9th.


----------



## Kris Hunt

WISHING YOU THE BEST OF LUCK KIM< WAYNE< AND PEE-A-LOT !!!!!

GO PILOT!!!!!!

Kris


----------



## oaklandbay

We are taking the laptop to work tomorrow in hopes that any news will be posted. All of us here are pulling for him and Wayne. BTW Molly is huge and about to burst!
P.S. Congrats to you and Fly on making a good show at the big dance.


----------



## Lynn Moore

Wiredlabz said:


> Are they considered finalists if they make it to the ninth series? They don't have to finish the whole shebang?
> I thought they are a finalist if they finish but don't win. I'm confused!!



Karen, the judges tell the handlers in the tenth to handle to every bird if they have to. They want all the dogs in the tenth to be finalists. So essentially if you are in the tenth, you will do whatever it takes to pick up all four birds. It feels great to git her done!
Lynn


----------



## Karen McCullah

moorelabs said:


> Karen, the judges tell the handlers in the tenth to handle to every bird if they have to. They want all the dogs in the tenth to be finalists. So essentially if you are in the tenth, you will do whatever it takes to pick up all four birds. It feels great to git her done!
> Lynn


Really??? What if a dog already has a handle from before or a hunt and a handle? 
It doesn't make sense...if they want every dog to finish and handle anyway in the 10th, then why even run a tenth series? And what about a dog who was clean up through the 8th and has a handle and hunt in the 9th, then could come back and smack the 10th series?? But the dog gets dropped for one bad series? And some if they "barely" are making it through, if they are making it to the 10th, it doesn't matter?
(Not saying your dog or anyone else's are "barely" making it, but you know what I mean, for example only)

Sorry for all the questions, I was just thrown for a loop I guess and sometimes I don't get things right off the bat. As my Daddy says, "Good thing you're purty, 'cause ya ain't too bright!" LOL


----------



## john fallon

moorelabs said:


> Karen, *the judges tell the handlers in the tenth to handle to every bird if they have to. * They want all the dogs in the tenth to be finalists. So essentially if you are in the tenth, you will do whatever it takes to pick up all four birds. It feels great to git her done!
> Lynn


*That* never made any sense to me!!! 

For me, it would seem that to earn the distinction of of being a "Nat or Nat Am Finalist",a judges award of merit if you will, one *should* have to continue with the same quality of work that got you that far, for *all * of the 10 series.

john


----------



## Dogtrainer4God

Wiredlabz said:


> Really??? What if a dog already has a handle from before or a hunt and a handle?
> It doesn't make sense...if they want every dog to finish and handle anyway in the 10th, then why even run a tenth series? And what about a dog who was clean up through the 8th and has a handle and hunt in the 9th, then could come back and smack the 10th series?? But the dog gets dropped for one bad series? And some if they "barely" are making it through, if they are making it to the 10th, it doesn't matter?


I always thought that they had the 10th to just basically show the best dogs and better define which the best one is.


----------



## LabLady

The judges don't want to see you handle, but if that's what you have to do, then by all means, I would handle - just don't break on the honor or pick up your dog. ;-)

I think that dogs that make it that far deserve to be a finalist. Look what they have accomplished all week long. I applaud all of them!!!

Vikki


----------



## K G

john fallon said:


> *That* never made any sense to me!!!
> 
> For me, it would seem that to earn the distinction of of being a "Nat or Nat Am Finalist",a judges award of merit if you will, one *should* have to continue with the same quality of work that got you that far, for *all * of the 10 series.
> 
> john


Well, John, why don't you bring that up at the next National Amateur meeting? Your club is a member, right? Then you can attend the next meeting next summer as your club's delegate and bring up that very point for consideration. While you're at it, perhaps you can get them to move the event further south..... _indeed_....

It's hard to _win_ a National in the 10th series, but you can sure LOSE one...and by lose, I mean "pick up." That is the ONLY way to not be a finalist. Dogs that have "held it together" for the entire week deserve to be recognized for their performance. The 10th series is a SHOW: ALL marks are FLYERS (99% of the time) and it will be no GIMME test.

CONGRATULATIONS to the dogs, handlers, and families whose dogs have made it to "The End." It is truly an accomplishment!

kg


----------



## john fallon

They are finalists by virtue of being in the last series. 
I just don't think that they should be "Finalists" if they do not do finish the last series with work that would get them called back if there were to be an 11th,

As for bringing it up, I could do it this Fall.


....semifinalists regards

john


----------



## jeff t.

LabLady said:


> - just don't break on the honor or pick up your dog. ;-)


or switch?


----------



## LabLady

Well, hopefully they could "handle" their way out of a switch :razz:


----------



## K G

Short of committing any of the SERIOUS faults (break, switch, etc.), the dogs will be finalists if they get all the birds....

_Sheesh_ regards.....

kg


----------



## Mike W.

I'm still kind of new to this, but watching this Am after being involved in the sport for just over a year now really crystalized alot of things for me.

First of all, the quality of the field is just incredible. So many talented animals, so many experienced handlers...it's really mind blowing. And to get to the end, obviously there is alot of talent & skill involved, but also a tremendous amount of luck. Early on, there were entire swaths of the field that were wiped out. Could have been wind shifts, no wind, bad lighting, glares,etc. Then you put in the no-birds, or distractions. And then for some of these dogs to "hold it together" for 10 series just blows me away. My dog tends to get looser as a weekend goes on, and for these guys to be going all week and keeping it together is just amazing.

I tip my hat to all the competitors and their fine animals.


----------



## K G

john fallon said:


> They are finalists by virtue of being in the last series.
> I just don't think that they should be "Finalists" if they do not do finish the last series with work that would get them called back if there were to be an 11th,
> 
> As for bringing it up, I could do it this Fall.
> 
> 
> ....semifinalists regards
> 
> john


They are not FINALISTS unless they FINISH the last series with all the birds. That they don't do it in the fashion that YOU deem acceptable is of no consequence whatsoever. Rarely will you see in the history of National competition a dog that went out in the 10th, but it happens. 

If the day ever comes that YOU are standing on the line in the last series of a National, I hope YOU don't have to worry becoming a victim of your own design. Methinks you'd have another point of view ENTIRELY were you to be so fortunate....

Flipside regards,

kg


----------



## Scott Greenwood

K G said:


> They are not FINALISTS unless they FINISH the last series with all the birds. That they don't do it in the fashion that YOU deem acceptable is of no consequence whatsoever. Rarely will you see in the history of National competition a dog that went out in the 10th, but it happens.
> 
> If the day ever comes that YOU are standing on the line in the last series of a National, I hope YOU don't have to worry becoming a victim of your own design. Methinks you'd have another point of view ENTIRELY were you to be so fortunate....
> 
> Flipside regards,
> 
> kg


Well put.


----------



## john fallon

K G said:


> They are not FINALISTS unless they FINISH the last series with all the birds. That they don't do it in the fashion that YOU deem acceptable is of no consequence whatsoever. Rarely will you see in the history of National competition a dog that went out in the 10th, but it happens.
> 
> If the day ever comes that YOU are standing on the line in the last series of a National, I hope YOU don't have to worry becoming a victim of your own design. Methinks you'd have another point of view ENTIRELY were you to be so fortunate....
> 
> Flipside regards,
> 
> kg


You didn't pick up on the f / F.

I'm afraid I come down in the Charlie Hines camp on this one . why bother? If you are not in a position to win you are either an _also-ran _ or one of it's synonyms 

... and I don't see "finalist" listed regards 

john


----------



## cakaiser

17 to the tenth, sorry, no numbers.


----------



## HarryWilliams

Blog-less this morning??? Oh well, I've got to go mow the fields anyway. The FINALISTs are a special bunch in my book, for whatever that is worth. HPW


----------



## Lynn Moore

15-21-22-24-26-27-28-34-68-71-80-85-95-102-105-106-109


----------



## K G

john fallon said:


> I'm afraid I come down in the Charlie Hines camp on this one . why bother? If you are not in a position to win you are either an _also-ran _ or one of it's synonyms
> 
> ... and I don't see "finalist" listed regards
> 
> john


There are dogs going into the 10th with handles, John. Would you rather take your chances and be ONE of them, or would you rather just take your ball and go home? I know the answer, John, and _so do you_....:wink:

With that attitude, John, you'll never have to worry about having a dog in a National....which I find to be AMAZING, as much grousing as you do here about all the "benefit of the doubt" a dog should get when competing.

Speaking SOLELY for myself, you will NEVER find ME going home without having been excused by the judges...EVER...not at a weekend trial, and sure as HE!! not at a National.

If you're not going to let the judges judge your dog _why_ would you _enter_ regards,

kg


----------



## Scott Greenwood

Hete to tell ya John but ya see finalists all the time! Look at some of th breedings that are out there. They either say to this series or that or they say finalists. In those scenarios I would rather be a in the finalist category!


----------



## labraiser

Anyone know why rough and land ahoy not back? they were both clean?


----------



## Riverdog SC

labraiser said:


> Anyone know why rough and land ahoy not back? they were both clean?


I was wondering the same thing???


----------



## 2tall

Thanks Labraiser, that was my question as well. I did not read anything that indicated a problem with either dog. I guess it must be one of those, "eyes of the behandler" things!


----------



## cakaiser

Don't really know, guessing, they committed their 2nd significant mistake.


----------



## labraiser

i'd be mad if I was clean and you have dogs that handled and are still in. I thought narking was the number one skill in AKC"s mind.


----------



## DenverB2B

Hope it was an oversite with Ahoy Mate. Did not see anything all week about him not doing the work. Must have had a really bad 9th. Just the way it goes. It sure a dog eat dog world out there. Anyways, Great job to the Zellner and Patopea crew. You still have Kimber and best to you with that dog.


----------



## Riverdog SC

cakaiser said:


> Don't really know, guessing, they committed their 2nd significant mistake.


If it wasn't handles, I wonder what it was? Hunts?


----------



## cakaiser

Maybe the handle in the 9th was their first real mistake. No previous handles does not = clean


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

JKL said:


> Pilots work has been almost flawless. He handled on the long right retired after a near pin. He rounded the mound a few feet up wind of the bird, saw how close he was to the flyer fall area (44 yds from station to station) and got the heck out of there! Wayne got on him and got him to the bird without trouble. He had already nailed 3 of the marks. His blinds have been topnotch as well.
> I have my fingers crossed for the 9th.


He's going to the 10th.


----------



## Mike W.

What's great about this is that here in a few hours, someone's life is about to really change


----------



## jeff t.

cakaiser said:


> No previous handles does not = clean


Why does this seem to be so hard for folks to understand?


----------



## Mike W.

#26, #80 & #106

The 3 dogs back that are not "titled". How bout that! That's really saying something, in a field dominated by FC/AFC's


----------



## K G

john fallon said:


> You didn't pick up on the f / F.


You're dwelling in a small world, John. Time to climb out.

kg


----------



## Riverdog SC

cakaiser said:


> Maybe the handle in the 9th was their first real mistake. No previous handles does not = clean


Did Rough or Pirate handle in the 9th? I may have missed something, but I didn't read where either dog had a handle.

It's more a question of inexperience and education for myself.


----------



## K G

jeff t. said:


> Why does this seem to be so hard for folks to understand?


Lack of reference points, and no more detailed information given.

_Assumption_ is the mother of _all_ screwups regards,

kg


----------



## john fallon

K G said:


> There are dogs going into the 10Th with handles, John. Would you rather take your chances and be ONE of them, or would you rather just take your ball and go home? I know the answer, John, and _so do you_....:wink:
> 
> With that attitude, John, you'll never have to worry about having a dog in a National....which I find to be AMAZING, as much grousing as you do here about all the "benefit of the doubt" a dog should get when competing.
> 
> Speaking SOLELY for myself, you will NEVER find ME going home without having been excused by the judges...EVER...not at a weekend trial, and sure as HE!! not at a National.
> 
> If you're not going to let the judges judge your dog _why_ would you _enter_ regards,
> 
> kg


It isn't you or I, or the similarity or difference in what WE would do ... it's about what I perceive to be a flawed system.

... what else is new regards

john
john


----------



## Riverdog SC

jeff t. said:


> Why does this seem to be so hard for folks to understand?


I understand it. I was just asking if someone happened to know what major faults occurred.

......sure is a prissy bunch of folks here.....


----------



## 2tall

Riverdog SC said:


> I understand it. I was just asking if someone happened to know what major faults occurred.
> 
> ......sure is a prissy bunch of folks here.....


:razz::razz::razz: You misspelled it Riverdog! Please delete the "R"!


----------



## Mike W.

17 Dogs back.....10 Males/7 Females


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

Big hunts were the problem, they came back and found the bird, but the hunts were BIG

Brad


----------



## DenverB2B

2tall said:


> :razz::razz::razz: You misspelled it Riverdog! Please delete the "R"!


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Riverdog SC

2tall said:


> :razz::razz::razz: You misspelled it Riverdog! Please delete the "R"!


I spelled it right the first time....... then added the "R"....


----------



## Roger Perry

Jeff Talley was clean going into the 9th also. Not called back to the 10th with a handle in 9th.


----------



## K G

Riverdog SC said:


> I understand it. I was just asking if someone happened to know what major faults occurred.
> 
> ......sure is a prissy bunch of folks here.....


Hmmm....first time I think I've ever seen the word "prissy" used here....interesting choice of words....

The only people who REALLY know are the judges. The primary people who could give you an opinion as to what ACTUALLY happened, besides the judges, would have to have been there to see those "faults." I'm guessing if they were indeed "major" faults, they'd have been reported.

You've got NEITHER of those here, on this thread, right now.

Bottom line regards,

kg


----------



## K G

Roger Perry said:


> Jeff Talley was clean going into the 9th also. Not called back to the 10th with a handle in 9th.


According to the blog, he had two hunts in the 8th....don't know what happened, if anything, prior to that.

kg


----------



## jeff t.

Riverdog SC said:


> I understand it. I was just asking if someone happened to know what major faults occurred.
> 
> ......sure is a prissy bunch of folks here.....



Its pretty simple, if a dog was dropped without any known handles, we can safely assume that it must have mucked up some of the marks before finding the bird. 

Yet there seems to be a chronic assumption that a dog without a handle is "clean" which in many cases is absolutely untrue.


----------



## DenverB2B

Not saying Pirate was or was not clean. That is irrelavant to me. I was just wondering if anyone knew what happened in the 9th or for that matter the rest of the series leading up to the 9th because there was nothing ever said about him the whole trial on the other site or here.


----------



## labraiser

Question, Has there ever been a winner with a handle?


----------



## Riverdog SC

jeff t. said:


> Its pretty simple, if a dog was dropped without any known handles, we can safely assume that it must have mucked up some of the marks before finding the bird.
> 
> Yet there seems to be a chronic assumption that a dog without a handle is "clean" which in many cases is absolutely untrue.


All of us can assume. Hence my question to glean information....... not a commentary, but thanks anyway.


----------



## jeff t.

labraiser said:


> Question, Has there ever been a winner with a handle?


I believe so...see post #250 on this thread


----------



## john fallon

With the notable exception of Angie B, I find no one posting on here that even comes close to being _prissy_

john


----------



## 2tall

The problem is, we will not ever get to know what happened to our favorites. If they are not mentioned in the blog or by an eye witness we shall remain clueless. In any other sport, you get a pretty good blow by blow description of what caused the loser to lose. Even in RFT News, they only list what dogs were dropped per series, no in depth descriptions. I realize there is not print room enough to describe every dog in every series, but at least we could learn about say the last 3? Is this because as dog owners we are too sensitive? I kind of doubt it. Maybe I will take this job on next year! Anybody willing to pay me:razz::razz::razz:


----------



## lablover

The 10th is running but no picture of the test.I guess the days of lots of pictures, and captions of whom is in the pics are over.
Shame isn't it?


----------



## cakaiser

handle = big mistake
large, out of area hunt = big mistake

Traditionally, at nationals, you are given 2 significant mistakes. Doesn't always work that way, ;-) but it could very well be, that is what happened here.


----------



## LabLady

I just spoke to Elizabeth Dixon (Gary Unger's wife) and they said that in the 9th, he had a good IL to the long retired, but overran it and ended up in the woods. He was only "out of sight" for a short time (to Elizabeth, it seemed like forever) and when he reappeared, he was right on the bird. 

Gary, Elizabeth and Rough are on their way home - sadly


----------



## Troopers Mom

john fallon said:


> With the notable exception of Angie B, I find no one posting on here that even comes close to being _prissy_
> 
> john


John, I honestly feel the "r" to be a typo. In that case, if the shoe fits.........


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## 2tall

LabLady said:


> I just spoke to Elizabeth Dixon (Gary Unger's wife) and they said that in the 9th, he had a good IL to the long retired, but overran it and ended up in the woods. He was only "out of sight" for a short time (to Elizabeth, it seemed like forever) and when he reappeared, he was right on the bird.
> 
> Gary, Elizabeth and Rough are on their way home - sadly


Oh man, what a heart breaker. I would have had a real hard time with that.

You rock Rough!


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## K G

Last series is a delayed quad with two retired guns and two flyers. Looks like they are staying tough to the end...as it should be.

No quarter regards, ;-)

kg


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## LabLady

LabLady said:


> I just spoke to Elizabeth Dixon (Gary Unger's wife) and they said that in the 9th, he had a good IL to the long retired, but overran it and ended up in the woods. He was only "out of sight" for a short time (to Elizabeth, it seemed like forever) and when he reappeared, he was right on the bird.
> 
> Gary, Elizabeth and Rough are on their way home - sadly


I should also add that Elizabeth said that he had to be only about 3 feet upwind of the bird that he over ran.


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Don't think there is such a thing as a loser in the last series of the nationals.

Brad


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## BonMallari

Dukdawg said:


> Don't think there is such a thing as a loser in the last series of the nationals.
> 
> Brad


I think we tend to overlook that fact and also that each and every dog in the National had to win at least once in the last year along with securing an additional two points....congrats to ALL THOSE QUALIFIED DOGS AND OWNERS


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## cakaiser

Pogo handled. 
Diamond up next. GO GIRL !!!
GO SHOCK!
GO SKEETER!


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## john fallon

Only two fliers and two retired...... Did they resorted to using only difficult factors and tough concepts for fear that _just putting the birds where the dogs don't want to go _would jeopardise some of the finalists chances to be Finalists ? 

inquiring minds want to know regards

john


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## jeff t.

LabLady said:


> I should also add that Elizabeth said that he had to be only about 3 feet upwind of the bird that he over ran.


I'm especially sympathetic to all of the dogs and handlers that were dropped after the 9th series. It is hard to be so very close to the 10th and not make it.


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## Brad Slaybaugh

jeff t. said:


> I'm especially sympathetic to all of the dogs and handlers that were dropped after the 9th series. It is hard to be so very close to the 10th and not make it.


No Doubt, one bird away for some.

on the other hand,

Wish I could say I made it to the ninth series of the nationals.

Brad


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Diamond on the way for the last bird !!!!!


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## HiRollerlabs

text to me says jimmie darnell did a great job on the 10th, and gallery says he had nice work in 8 & 9. sounds like he's set the bar high!!

GO JIMMIE!!!


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## Guest

Shockie Did It!!!!


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## JeffLusk

Little out of the loop being in south carolina. (Carol its hot as a dickens!! Don't know how you do it!) 

Good luck to local dog pilot!! Congrats to making it to the 10th in your first national!


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## Brad Slaybaugh

There is a photo of the tenth on the report as well as the drawing from the blog.

Wow what a pretty pond.

Brad


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## AmiableLabs

I agree beautiful pond. This whole trial has had beautiful grounds.

I love delayed quads. Even someone ignorant of the game can look at them and see inherent difficulties.


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Anyone have anymore info on #22, from Vicki's post I can't really tell if it was good or not?

Brad


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## JusticeDog

LabLady said:


> Gary, Elizabeth and Rough are on their way home - sadly


Sad.  we love ya Rough!

Your brothers, FC Honor & HRCH Kirby, SH, QAA

I think they'll have to eat a few biscuits to console themselves. Rough has come so close a few times...


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## Troopers Mom

DenverB2B said:


> Not saying Pirate was or was not clean. That is irrelavant to me. I was just wondering if anyone knew what happened in the 9th or for that matter the rest of the series leading up to the 9th because there was nothing ever said about him the whole trial on the other site or here.


Just heard from Jerry that Pirate had a big hunt in the 5th and a short hunt in the 9th. Unfortunately, that didn't carry him to the 10th.

Arleen


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## Gwen Jones

Are they finished? How many to go? IT is 1:45 pm CST and I would love to hear from someone there or on the phone with someone there. I spoke with Debbie Darnell after Diamond ran but do not want to call back since it is such an emotional day for the contestants. HUGE congrats to everyone who made the 10th.


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## Sue Kiefer

Vicki's blog is great. Up to date to the dog(minute);-)
Sue


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## Gwen Jones

Thanks Sue, This is the 3rd day I have had enough problems with my computer that I can not get the Blog. This is the only site I can read so any updates are greatly appreciated


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## john fallon

Sue Kiefer said:


> Vicki's blog is great. Up to date to the dog(minute);-)
> Sue


Beside the cute name what is the difference between it and a chronologically reversed entried Internet report. Is Tina's report is in the proper format ?

Two blogs for the price of one regards...or is it

john


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## AmiableLabs

According to Vickie, Tide smacked both retireds.


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Vicki say's, Dancer double handled.

I would have to think Tide has a good chance to win it. Vicki has made a few good comments about her during the week.

If my count is correct, Diamond, Shock, Hook and Tide are clean with only a few left to run.

Brad


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## 2tall

Did Shaq get his re-run yet?


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Gwen Jones said:


> Thanks Sue, This is the 3rd day I have had enough problems with my computer that I can not get the Blog. This is the only site I can read so any updates are greatly appreciated


FOR YOU GWEN....From the report not the blog.

The sun is high in the sky and the wind is coming from the northwest. #102 and #15 have handled so far on the long left retired. There was a no bird for dog #109. #21 will be a rerun because the flyer did not go where it was supposed to.

#22 had a nice job; #24 had a no-bird flyer; #26, #27 and #109 handled on the left retired. We have run eight dogs so far. #28 had a very good job!!

Brad


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## Brad Slaybaugh

2tall said:


> Did Shaq get his re-run yet?


Yes he doubled handled but finished.


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## john fallon

I'd like to see John Stouffer pull it off.
What kind of shape is Esprit's Odd Man Rush in ?

john


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## Mike W.

So are there any yellow or chocolate dogs in the 10th?


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## HiRollerlabs

Randy Whittaker #28 had 4 perfect birds! #109, 21, 24 double handled. #34, 15 handled. Joanne and Sailor handled.


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## Roger Perry

It's a good thing that they got the 8th series done yesterday or else we would have a long wait to see who wins.


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## DenverB2B

Troopers Mom said:


> Just heard from Jerry that Pirate had a big hunt in the 5th and a short hunt in the 9th. Unfortunately, that didn't carry him to the 10th.
> 
> Arleen


Thanks Arleen.


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## lablover

How many are left to run? The suspense is killing me!


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## AmiableLabs

Check here -- http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41750

Using just info from Vickie's blog.


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## Roger Perry

lablover said:


> How many are left to run? The suspense is killing me!


By my count, 6 left to run


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## AmiableLabs

Roger Perry said:


> By my count, 6 left to run


I have five?


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## AmiableLabs

Skeeter handled.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B

#22 had a nice job; #24 had a no-bird flyer; #26, #27 and #109 handled on the left retired. We have run eight dogs so far. #28 had a very good job!! #21, #24 and #34 had handles. *Looks like 8 have run*


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## Brad Slaybaugh

4 more after Skeeter unless I missed a no bird rerun or something


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## Roger Perry

AmiableLabs said:


> I have five?


71 should be running now, 80, 85, 95,102, 105 and 106


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## AmiableLabs

Trying to track them here --

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41750


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## John Lash

I believe they started with #102, 4 dogs left to go...

John Lash


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## AmiableLabs

Roger Perry said:


> 71 should be running now, 80, 85, 95,102, 105 and 106


They started with #102.


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## cakaiser

Looks like the judges threw it wide open at the end, for anyone to go get. 

Tide Whittaker crushed it.


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## Troopers Mom

Roger Perry said:


> 71 should be running now, 80, 85, 95,102, 105 and 106


#102 started this series. I think there are only 3 left after Rocky who is running now

Arleen


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## Roger Perry

John Lash said:


> I believe they started with #102, 4 dogs left to go...
> 
> John Lash


Your right, I thought 109 started.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Vickie says Rocky handled.


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## HiRollerlabs

#68 & #71 handled.


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## AmiableLabs

Three dogs to go. 

I wonder how many people are still in the gallery? The years I went to watch, there were still forty to fifty.


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## Brad Slaybaugh

wish I was there


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## maydayretrievers

Go Pirate sail away with the gold Go buddy ...Jonny depp would be proud


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## AmiableLabs

It appears at least one untitled dog is a serious threat to win this thing.


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## L Magee

I watched Randy and Tide run 5 series from a great spot (I was #29) and they had 5 very good series.


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## Roger Perry

AmiableLabs said:


> It appears at least one untitled dog is a serious threat to win this thing.


Has an untitled dog ever won the National Am? and would the win count toward its title?


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## AmiableLabs

Blue handled.


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## HiRollerlabs

#80 handled.


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## bell

regardless of the outcome you might want to regret not buying one of TIDES pups i have one and she is an amazing pup...


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## AmiableLabs

For those just logging on --

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41750


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## BonMallari

Roger Perry said:


> Has an untitled dog ever won the National Am? and would the win count toward its title?


I dont know if an untitled dog has ever won it but it would always carry the title NAFC


----------



## AmiableLabs

#85 is now handling.


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## AmiableLabs

So far four dogs have completed ten series without a handle*. Brad Clow will now step to the line to see if he can make it five.



* -- the definition of "clean" is up to the judges, and the judges alone.


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## larry109

Wishing my mom good luck, might just win this one.

WildWings Diamonds' Gem

Go get um Mom!! Angus


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## Canman

Breck, any second thoughts ?


----------



## AmiableLabs

#95 has now handled.


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## MKaty Gutermuth

Got my fingers crossed for Randy & Tide Jimmy & Diamond!!! Katie


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## AmiableLabs

"Pard." -- What a COOL name for a dog!

I am ashamed I might steal that name for my next one.


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## Northrup Larson

I am rooting for Loren Morehouse & Hook


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## Mike W.

Rooting for Tide. Dog kinda came in under the radar. Sounds like she pounded the 10th


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Northrup Larson said:


> I am rooting for Loren Morehouse & Hook


I'm with you, although from reading the blog, it sounds like Tide might be hard to beat.


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## jamen

My sources(throwing a live bird) tell me that The Tide Ride was the only one that nailed the 10th. 

Jeff


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## Gawthorpe

Is this a good time to as ask 

"Where do I get a Labradoodle??"


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## Jacob Hawkes

AmiableLabs said:


> "Pard." -- What a COOL name for a dog!
> 
> I am ashamed I might steal that name for my next one.


As good a dog there doesn't hurt anything.


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## Howard N

Gawthorpe said:


> Is this a good time to as ask
> 
> "Where do I get a Labradoodle??"


Man does this place collect people who ain't right in the head or what?

:lol: :lol:


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## David Baty

Go Randy and Tide.


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## Chuck N

jamen said:


> My sources(throwing a live bird) tell me that The Tide Ride was the only one that nailed the 10th.
> 
> Jeff


I heard 105 crushed the 10th


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

Gawthorpe said:


> Is this a good time to as ask
> 
> "Where do I get a Labradoodle??"


Walmart parking lot.


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Chuck N said:


> I heard 105 crushed the 10th



...went left of the left bird and worked around to get it...she's headed halfway out to her final bird right now.

This is what Vicki had on her blog for 105

Brad


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## Brad Slaybaugh

HOOK WON

hot dog


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## Howard N

*Hook!!!!!!!!*


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## K G

Funny thing about "nailing" or "crushing" the last series....it's ONE of SIX marking series, all of which (from the descriptions on The Blog) had teeth and hair...

Hook was the last dog I had in the "Pick 'em"...congrats Loren!;-)

kg


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## Lady Duck Hunter

I picked him, too!!! 

Yippee, I feel like I won!


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## equus

# 22 wins national


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## Troopers Mom

Lady Duck Hunter said:


> I picked him, too!!!
> 
> Yippee, I feel like I won!


That was the last dog Gregg had left as well and since he was out of town, I had done all his picks. But, sadly, I did not pick him for my own list. 

Arleen


----------



## Shayne Mehringer

Congrats Mike, Loren, Eckett, and HOOK!


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Congrats Hook, his owner, Mr. Bill/Mr. Bobby.


----------



## Northrup Larson

Congrats Loren, Mike,Carol, & Bill & Bobby !!!!!!!!!!!!! Hook!!!!!!!!


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## Brad Slaybaugh

I had him picked on my EE also.

And I bought a hook puppy last year.......I was hoping but never really expected it. It is awesome.

Congrats to Loren, Mike and Bill and HOOK

Emma say's way to go Dad


----------



## Lady Duck Hunter

Here's some trivia for y'all....about 20% of the players on EE had #22.


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## YardleyLabs

Congratulations Hook!

These are photos of Hook from just before the NARC last year:


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## Howard N

80% of us didn't


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## Brad Slaybaugh

Lady Duck Hunter said:


> Here's some trivia for y'all....about 20% of the players on EE had #22.


I hope some of them had him for the tie breaker


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## Lady Duck Hunter

That's ok, Howard....you are still cool.


----------



## YardleyLabs

Do you get bonus points for picking the winner?


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## Lady Duck Hunter

To tell you the truth, I don't know how it works exactly. I htink there are bonus points for picking finalists and the winner. But, I don't know the particulars, maybe someone else will enlighten us...Shayne???


----------



## Brad Slaybaugh

if I remember right it's

1 point for each series each pick is in
5 points for a finalist 
10 points for the winner

I think

Brad


----------



## Mark Rosenblum

Here is a nice photo:

http://www.working-retriever.com/report/uploaded_images/WINNERS-024-706983.JPG


----------



## Josh Conrad

That is a great photo. Hook looks pleased as punch. He has a smile on his face and just look at his eyes, looks like he's caught up in the excitement as well.

Congrats.


----------



## Mike W.

Damn right he's smiling....he just realized he hit the breeding jackpot.

Line 'em up!


----------



## Scott Greenwood

To believe there wasn't hardly a mention of Hook before he won.

Congrats Hook and Loren!!!! What a dog!!!!


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## saltgrass

Congrats to Hook...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We were going to breed to him but went with a dog with no Lean Mac. Due to the fact that my females granddad is lean Mac. Congrats to Loren and the owners as well!


----------



## Todd Caswell

Here are a few pics of " Hook " in the 10th.


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## KEITH L

congrats loren you deserve it. enjoy, i know you work hard and 
long for it. 


keith l.
________
20se


----------



## birdthrower51

Congratulations Loren & Carol; Mike, Bill & Bobby. A great team just earned their place among the best.
Dave & Glenda


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## DeWitt Boice

Congratulations Loren and Carol
Last year Loren gave up running Hook to fill in as Judge for the 2008 National
That makes Loren a good guy
I thought good guys always finish last
Way to go Hook ….. snagged a big one!









Mark Rosenblum said:


> Here is a nice photo:
> 
> http://www.working-retriever.com/report/uploaded_images/WINNERS-024-706983.JPG


 
Mark
Molly did a great job with the photography 
Some of the photos on the blog and report were outstanding
two of my favorite are
http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/uploaded_images/0620_MG_3167-709906.jpg
and
http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/uploaded_images/0620_MG_3179-750219.jpg
zoom in on Shock and pilot, are these dogs happy
they look like they are smiling ear to ear

Retriever News did a great job Kudos !


----------



## Richard Halstead

ACEBLDRS said:


> That is a great photo. Hook looks pleased as punch. He has a smile on his face and just look at his eyes, looks like he's caught up in the excitement as well.
> 
> Congrats.


He just realised more studing....


----------



## HiRollerlabs

Congratulations to NAFC Hook, Loren & Carol, Mike, & Blackwater Retrievers!! Way to go!

Congratulations to all who finished, and in particular to our friend Joanne Mackey and Sailor, Jimmie/Debbie Darnell, Randy Whittaker, and John Stracka for great work all week long!!


----------



## Philip Carson

Loren and Carol, way to go!!!!!!!! Hook's earned his place in retriever history!


----------



## BonMallari

NAFC FC Barton Creek's O Mustad has a nice ring to it...Second consecutive National for a Texas dog....Willie and Brady Oman in the Open, Now Loren Morehouse from Katy Texas........Congrats to all the Finalists


----------



## Evan

BonMallari said:


> NAFC FC Barton Creek's O Mustad has a nice ring to it...Second consecutive National for a Texas dog....Willie and Brady Oman in the Open, Now *Loren Morehouse from Katy Texas*........Congrats to all the Finalists


When did they move? They've lived in Missouri for decades.

Evan


----------



## Tim West

Congratulations Loren, Carol and the Blackwater Gang. 

It's nice to see a dog that we compete against win the National. Way to go HOOK!


----------



## BonMallari

Evan said:


> When did they move? They've lived in Missouri for decades.
> 
> Evan


I thought thats what was listed on the starter list, maybe they have multiple residences...I could be wrong but here is how it was listed

FC-AFC BARTON CREEK’S O MUSTAD, L.M., Mike Haring & Loren Morehouse, Katy, TX


----------



## Sandra

Congratulations Hook and Loren and Carol!!!!!!!!!!!!
A special dog, and two VERY special people!

Kip and Sandra


----------



## dexdoolittle

Congrats Loren, Carol, Mike and Deb. What a special animal. Mike lives in Katy, TX, Loren and Carol live in Warrensburg, MO.

Way to go Bill and Bobby.


----------



## BonMallari

dexdoolittle said:


> Congrats Loren, Carol, Mike and Deb. What a special animal. Mike lives in Katy, TX, Loren and Carol live in Warrensburg, MO.
> 
> Way to go Bill and Bobby.


Thanks for clearing that up, knew there had to be an explanation, because Barton Creek is in Austin, but I knew they werent from there


----------



## ErinsEdge

Congratulations to Hook, Loren and Carol.
Nancy Planasch


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

2009 National Am Pickems Champ is me.


----------



## K G

Enjoy your winnings.....;-)

kg


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

LOL. Waiting for some email from EE or Dog's Afield to notify me of all these great prizes and gear. So far no dice. 

Think I'm getting jipped cause Shayne remembers 8 isn't 9 regards.


----------



## Billie

I know theres points, for each picked in the EE pickem but is there really a prize or something for being top winner in it? I didnt think so but dont really know---


----------



## DeWitt Boice

Correction:

Pictures in the blog were from Vickie
Here is another great picture
It almost looks like a painting
very well done


http://www.working-retriever.com/blog/uploaded_images/0620_MG_3339-743668.jpg


----------



## JS

Jacob Hawkes said:


> 2009 National Am Pickems Champ is me.


Any sudden clamor of requests for stud service?   

JS


----------



## Rick_C

Jacob Hawkes said:


> 2009 National Am Pickems Champ is me.


Eh, getting lucky picking the winner saved ya! 

Congrats Jacob!


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

JS said:


> Any sudden clamor of requests for stud service?
> 
> JS


LOL. Somehow I don't think being a pickems champ doesn't work on women like winning a Nat Am does on dogs. Women just don't get the allure of it all regards.


----------



## Jacob Hawkes

Rick_C said:


> Eh, getting lucky picking the winner saved ya!
> 
> Congrats Jacob!


You were up going into the 10th if I'm not mistaken. Good job on picking Pilot though. 

Thank you.


----------



## AmiableLabs

Billie said:


> I know theres points, for each picked in the EE pickem but is there really a prize or something for being top winner in it? I didnt think so but dont really know---


Yup! Three gifts are offered. A _hearty handshake_, a _pat on the back_, and _our warmest congratulations!_ ;-)


----------



## Billie

Doggone,now Im really dissapointed I lost.... ....


----------



## Aaron Homburg

*Congratz to Loren, Carol and Hook! Love to see a dog you see competing on a weekly basis win the National! Congratz to Mr. Eckett and Mr. George as well!

Aaron*


----------



## Gwen Jones

Way to go Mike and Loren! I remember Hook when his "class" at Blackwater started and included my Tyra Banks. This is the top of the Mountain and could not go to nicer people. Carol, you may have a problem keeping Loren from floating away!


----------



## john fallon

Did the catalog indicate who the "host" club was ?

Was it MIRRC ?

john


----------



## Aussie

Gwen Jones said:


> Way to go Mike and Loren! I remember Hook when his "class" at Blackwater started and included my Tyra Banks. This is the top of the Mountain and could not go to nicer people. Carol, you may have a problem keeping Loren from floating away!



Congratulations to all the finalists, winner and trainers, including Bill and Becky Eckett and Bobby George. Awesome news..when finally received due to no internet acess. 

Did you celebrate at THE Mexican restaurant?


----------



## Richard Halstead

john fallon said:


> Did the catalog indicate who the "host" club was ?
> 
> Was it MIRRC ?
> 
> john


We southern Minnesotan's ie. south of Duluth refer to the area as "da range" for the Minnesota Iron RangeRetriver Club. The Mesabi Iron range has large open pit mines Tower-soudan makes claims tobe the deepest undergroun iron ore mine. The Cayuga Range is more west of the Arrowhead region the North shore which contains the counties north of Lake Superior.


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