# Judging hunt test you need thick skin



## richchief (Aug 19, 2014)

This past weekend I judged a master test. Do people come to these things thinking everyone that plays should get a pass? Come on! Dog gets a flyer in the first. Gunners do not kill the bird. Dog is sent, when dog goes to grab it bird tries to get away, dog runs away, handler stops dog, attempts to handle dog, dog won't handle back, so he gives up. Now he is pissed that he had a unfair test. I try to tell him it is not unfair but now I am an ass. Guy who is buddy of first guy gets to water blind, water blind is about 50 yards and half of that is land with a poison bird. After about 20 handles dog does get the blind but we drop him, it was ugly. Now after call backs he finds out he is not back and he is pissed, tells me it was not that bad. Now I am a bigger ass. Like they say, if they get the chicken they think they should get a pass. I have gotten where I really respect the guy who picks up their dog when they know it is done. Wish I would see more of that. Just my two cents on the game.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

not every one should get a ribbon.... I am sorry you are an ass ;-)


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## Larry Housman (Jun 4, 2012)

As someone who honored on leave this past weekend, if you have to fall back on "it wasn't *that* bad" you know why you failed and should just thank the judge and move on. I will occasionally think a judge might have been a bit harsh in their judgement, but if I give them something to be harsh about it's on me - don't screw up and you'll be fine. And in my case this past weekend I spent a bit too much time dry on the water blind and would have judged me the same way.


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## John Condon (Mar 27, 2013)

I know when we've done master work, I know when we haven't, I also know when we've been given a gift....for all scenarios I thank the Judges!!!


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## Tom Lehr (Sep 11, 2008)

Last year my co-judge and I dropped a dog for switching. The handler decided to wait until we were eating dinner at the club tailgate to call us out to protest. I tried to tell him that we both judged it as a switch but he became very angry and asked what truck i was driving because he wanted to flatten my tires. I kick myself every time I think about it for not writing him up for misconduct. I left after the test and decided I didn't need to deal with people like this anymore until I had to get the judges for our club's test. The lack of judges made me realize that i had to keep judging. 

It is extremely important that we all exercise the best Sportsmanship even when You do not agree with the judges call.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

My first dog and I breezed through AKC Junior and Senior in straight try's, while doing the same in NAHRA. We really never gave the judges any reason to drop us with pretty good marks and blinds. Though we saw some pretty hacky blinds get called back in senior. Then we moved up to Master which was a whole nother level of difficulty over senior, plus they expected smooth, clean work. 

I was shocked when I was dropped in my first Master, but I quickly realized that judges had high standards for master quality work, and hacky blinds or other marginal work wasn't going to cut. People feel so entitled nowadays. A Master title is meaningless if judges aren't going to hold dogs to a high standard.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

I thought "must be an A$$" was quoted in the rules under the judging requirements, somewhere inbtw must have pass at the level; and hunting experience.  As long as you fill in the numbers, in all the categories and do the math, you're doing the job and have got a good shield against any complainer. Also learn the art of closing a book really hard, to hint to the handler that he is out and should pick up the dog, so you don't have to watch ugly work go on and on. Get in conference with your co-judge so you can both make such highly obvious . After judging multiple venues, I prefer UKC style where your required to tell a handler they are out as soon as you know. Making them aware that there were issues seems to stop a lot of the grumbling. I don't know what it is but as soon as a handler leaves the line their "work" gets better and better. Thus a lot of handlers are blind-sided after they've been made to wait around for call-backs. I usually try to inform handler as long as my co-judge agrees, or tell the handler that we will have to discuss it, if it's a grey area. I don't like people waiting around for ribbons or the next series if they are obviously out, it's a waste of everyone's time.

I have had the discussion with a few handlers, who's dogs made it through all the series but the math just didn't make the required % in all categories. If I can I try to find them prior to handing out ribbons, nothing sucks as much as thinking you've got a pass and you don't. But it's very hard for them to be overly combative when all the scores are filled out, added up, and both judges concur.

Then of course don't go on the internet to read anything until at least weds. everything will have blown over by then .


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

richchief said:


> This past weekend I judged a master test. Do people come to these things thinking everyone that plays should get a pass? Come on! Dog gets a flyer in the first. Gunners do not kill the bird. Dog is sent, when dog goes to grab it bird tries to get away, dog runs away, handler stops dog, attempts to handle dog, dog won't handle back, so he gives up. Now he is pissed that he had a unfair test. I try to tell him it is not unfair but now I am an ass. Guy who is buddy of first guy gets to water blind, water blind is about 50 yards and half of that is land with a poison bird. After about 20 handles dog does get the blind but we drop him, it was ugly. Now after call backs he finds out he is not back and he is pissed, tells me it was not that bad. Now I am a bigger ass. Like they say, if they get the chicken they think they should get a pass. I have gotten where I really respect the guy who picks up their dog when they know it is done. Wish I would see more of that. Just my two cents on the game.


A Master dog that will not pick up a cripple or live bird is NO MASTER HUNTER and should be dropped. Same with a butt ugly blind. Shot for a Sr last weekend. Had 2 that were not dead. 1 with good legs. NO PROBLEM for either dog.

Some trainers should stick with Juniors.

You are NOT the Ass in your examples.


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## pat addis (Feb 3, 2008)

if those people know so much about judging why don't they? I always knew when I failed I got to be a expert at it I thanked the judges and sat on the honor bucket. I always thought I should have had a dunce hat on


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## LabskeBill (Nov 12, 2012)

richchief said:


> This past weekend I judged a master test. Do people come to these things thinking everyone that plays should get a pass? Come on! Dog gets a flyer in the first. Gunners do not kill the bird. Dog is sent, when dog goes to grab it bird tries to get away, dog runs away, handler stops dog, attempts to handle dog, dog won't handle back, so he gives up. Now he is pissed that he had a unfair test. I try to tell him it is not unfair but now I am an ass. Guy who is buddy of first guy gets to water blind, water blind is about 50 yards and half of that is land with a poison bird. After about 20 handles dog does get the blind but we drop him, it was ugly. Now after call backs he finds out he is not back and he is pissed, tells me it was not that bad. Now I am a bigger ass. Like they say, if they get the chicken they think they should get a pass. I have gotten where I really respect the guy who picks up their dog when they know it is done. Wish I would see more of that. Just my two cents on the game.



Well Said!


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I *always* tell Flinch WE are lucky I wasnt judging.  I always hug the judges if we pass.. I shake their hand if we fail...


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Respect is becoming a lost virtue, whether or not you agree with those in authority one should at least respect their position. You should not feel that you need thick skin to judge but I agree that it is an asset,


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

IMO respect is something one earns its not given !!!!! as to what the OP and the rest are referring to IMO is a true lack of sportsmanship, plain and simple.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

richchief said:


> This past weekend I judged a master test. Do people come to these things thinking everyone that plays should get a pass? Come on! Dog gets a flyer in the first. Gunners do not kill the bird. Dog is sent, when dog goes to grab it bird tries to get away, dog runs away, handler stops dog, attempts to handle dog, dog won't handle back, so he gives up. Now he is pissed that he had a unfair test. I try to tell him it is not unfair but now I am an ass. Guy who is buddy of first guy gets to water blind, water blind is about 50 yards and half of that is land with a poison bird. After about 20 handles dog does get the blind but we drop him, it was ugly. Now after call backs he finds out he is not back and he is pissed, tells me it was not that bad. Now I am a bigger ass. Like they say, if they get the chicken they think they should get a pass. I have gotten where I really respect the guy who picks up their dog when they know it is done. Wish I would see more of that. Just my two cents on the game.


. 
As a judge you need to respect the handlers and the event. For you to comment about handlers (no matter if they were disrespectful or not) who ran under you as you did you aught to be brought up on misconduct charges and should consider not judging again. 
.


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## mizzippi jb (Jan 22, 2014)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> I thought "must be an A$$" was quoted in the rules under the judging requirements, somewhere inbtw must have pass at the level; and hunting experience.  As long as you fill in the numbers, in all the categories and do the math, you're doing the job and have got a good shield against any complainer. Also learn the art of closing a book really hard, to hint to the handler that he is out and should pick up the dog, so you don't have to watch ugly work go on and on. Get in conference with your co-judge so you can both make such highly obvious . After judging multiple venues, I prefer UKC style where your required to tell a handler they are out as soon as you know. Making them aware that there were issues seems to stop a lot of the grumbling. I don't know what it is but as soon as a handler leaves the line their "work" gets better and better. Thus a lot of handlers are blind-sided after they've been made to wait around for call-backs. I usually try to inform handler as long as my co-judge agrees, or tell the handler that we will have to discuss it, if it's a grey area. I don't like people waiting around for ribbons or the next series if they are obviously out, it's a waste of everyone's time.
> 
> I have had the discussion with a few handlers, who's dogs made it through all the series but the math just didn't make the required % in all categories. If I can I try to find them prior to handing out ribbons, nothing sucks as much as thinking you've got a pass and you don't. But it's very hard for them to be overly combative when all the scores are filled out, added up, and both judges concur.
> 
> Then of course don't go on the internet to read anything until at least weds. everything will have blown over by then .


I really like the idea of judges giving handlers a better idea of where they stand after they run. It would be a lot easier for a new handler running his or her first, second, etc master test to know how they stand when they finish up. Just a "good job" or a "sorry but that will be all we need to see".


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## Oz1 (Dec 9, 2011)

I see judging as kind of a thankless job so not sure if I would want to do it. I would like to think that most judges try to be fair and equitable in judging dogs. Bottom line is I wouldn't want to title a dog with a meaningless title, Junior, Senior, or Master. Too much work and expense. I remember reading a post about a judge who bragged about dropping so many dogs. That's as bad as the tire slashing meathead but I'm sure he was the exception.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

That tire-slashing, sand-bag the judge at the tailgate thing... not cool. The HT committee needs to know about it, whether formally or informally, whether at the time or later. I would bet that this was not the first time this person had made an accusation and/or threat, and will not be the last. Doesn't mean anything MUST be done about it. But the committee should be made aware.


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## dorkweed (Apr 14, 2009)

IMNTBHO; if'n they're calling you out....................then you must've set up a really fine test!!!

HRC regards!!


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## counciloak (Mar 26, 2008)

I believe it was Tom Landry the coach of the Dallas Cowboys who said, "When you make a touchdown, don't act like it is your first time."

The same thing applies here when you fail!

J.O.


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## LGH (Oct 20, 2013)

Ive gotten a ribbon or 2 when i shouldnt have, but have never not gotten one when i thought i should have. Have also picked up before being told to.


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## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

Just a thought, on the other side of ass. I had a pro with a similar issue to your blind friend (sarcasm rules). We dropped the dog no doubt. The following Tuesday I got a phone call from the pro from way down south whom I had never before heard of. His statement to me went something like this "I apologize for making you judge that dog. I should have called him in after it all went south, many apologies"

Breck, I feel your comments are way off base. No names or event names given.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Considering the topic is HT,,and it talked about PASSING...

A test has 35 dogs. It is the upper level.. The Majority of the field already has the title of the level you all are running. MANY experienced handlers and Pro's.

At the end.... Only 3 dogs pass.... You are one of them.. How do you feel about the Pass?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Now that you thought about it a bit....

A few days later,, you over hear the One of the judges boasting.... Man ,,, My test really ate some dogs....


How do you feel about the pass ??... 

We all know,, NONE of our passes are perfect,,because JUDGING is subjective by Nature..


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## Kajun Kamakazi (May 17, 2011)

The crying and belly aching, especially at the lower stakes, is a big reason why I don't want to judge HT's anymore.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

EdA said:


> Respect is becoming a lost virtue, whether or not you agree with those in authority one should at least respect their position. ,


I concur with Ed's statement


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## steve schreiner (Jun 15, 2009)

EdA said:


> Respect is becoming a lost virtue, whether or not you agree with those in authority one should at least respect their position. You should not feel that you need thick skin to judge but I agree that it is an asset,


A gentleman's game it once was ...Steve S PS :and a ladies game ...


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

MooseGooser said:


> Now that you thought about it a bit....
> 
> A few days later,, you over hear the One of the judges boasting.... Man ,,, My test really ate some dogs....


I once heard a judge (using that term very loosely in this particular case) remark after judging a mid level HRC event that his test "really ate them up." I happened to be judging that weekend also in the Finished stake. 
I did not think that much of him as a judge to begin with and my opinion was set in stone after that remark. It does not take a college degree to trick and fool a bunch of intermediate level dogs at a test. He owns a pretty nice dog that a reasonably successful HT pro trains for him. He judges a lot because he will say YES when asked. Lots of things wrong with this whole picture.
BTW, this guy is somewhat slight in stature and definitely suffers from "little man syndrome".

Judge shopping regards,
MP


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> IMO respect is something one earns its not given !!!!! as to what the OP and the rest are referring to IMO is a true lack of sportsmanship, plain and simple.


As duly authorized representatives of The American Kennel Club, whose rules you agree to abide by, judges have no need to "earn your respect", they are granted such by their position whether you agree with their decision or not.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

I guess I'm an odd duck, I tend to give everyone respect until they prove otherwise, once they loose that, I will respect a position/office they may hold, but the person will always be questionable. 

FOM


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

EdA said:


> As duly authorized representatives of The American Kennel Club, whose rules you agree to abide by, judges have no need to "earn your respect", they are granted such by their position whether you agree with their decision or not.


Ed is spot on (as usual) but to add... 

Given the amount of apprenticeships and assignments one needs to be a MH judge these days, they have earned plenty of respect from people before you showed up.


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## jacduck (Aug 17, 2011)

Solution to this issue. Keep a list of judges you will Not run under again. If your list is longer than a couple then look in the mirror.


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

EdA said:


> As duly authorized representatives of The American Kennel Club, whose rules you agree to abide by, judges have no need to "earn your respect", they are granted such by their position whether you agree with their decision or not.


I DIS-AGREE with ur statement & Ill just leave it as that !!!!!!!!!!


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

DarrinGreene said:


> Given the amount of apprenticeships and assignments one needs to be a MH judge these days, they have earned plenty of respect from people before you showed up.


OMG !!!!! Please !!!!! it's 2 freakn' weekends & BOOM and u can be a MH judge.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> OMG !!!!! Please !!!!! it's 2 freakn' weekends & BOOM and u can be a MH judge.


Not sure where you've been but that's no longer true.

Look here for the current eligibility requirements

There's a minimum 7 opportunities you need to be OFFERED by folks to get there. You won't be offered if you suck.


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

Judges deserve respect for giving up their time so that you can have the enjoyment of running your dog in a test. If your not having fun chances are it's becuase either your dog is not prepared for the test, is having an off day, or because the handler lacks the experience to know the expectations of a MH test. The stake is called master, the highest level in the program, the expectations are to show true refinement and even then 50% or less will pass the day. Both dogs in the OP description should have not been called back....period, and the reason is lack of preparedness, the reason the handlers complained is lack of understanding.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> OMG !!!!! Please !!!!! it's 2 freakn' weekends & BOOM and u can be a MH judge.


Where have you been, getting and moving up in judging status is practically a campaign. JH apprentice, SH Apprentice, MH Apprentice (at least 2 weekends, if you do JH & SH together), JH judging 2 assignments (2 weekends, unless a club puts in the same JH judge for both tests, doubtful, still need a 6-8? pt. judge to carry you), SH (2 assignments only after JH assignments are done, need an 6-8pt judge to carry you) (2 weekends), Finally you can Judge Masters, but only with a Judge that can carry you. So were talking a least 8 weekends, don't forget the judging seminars-continuing education, which is hard to find. Then figure most areas have 2-4 tests in a year, so traveling. It's tough, a big time investment and if your traveling to get assignments an monetary investment. There are a lot of limitations, finding those judges with enough pts. to carry an upcoming judge is hard, and finding a club that wants to put in a JH judge that can't also judge senior is hard. This costs the club money as they need an additional judge. Heaven forbid you actually want to continue to run dogs. There is a reason that you see the same judges over and over, most were grandfathered in with less stringent requirements, there's also a reason we get a certain type of new judge coming up, because they have to really commit to judging to get it done, and yes they have to be a bit of an A$$ to want to do it and to take the punishment. Most people that do start, don't finish, or do it as is convenient, so it takes a long time.

People can respect who they want, but if your running under some one they are giving you & the club a service for free. If you treat them like crap, most normal-sane people don't continue to do the service. You can't continue a sport without people to judge the dogs, and I assume everyone likes and would like to continue to run dogs, preferably under normal-sane judges. So even from a completely self-interested perspective, best to treat the judges at least respectful at the event, and keep your own opinions of them to yourself, until your well away from the grounds.


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> OMG !!!!! Please !!!!! it's 2 freakn' weekends & BOOM and u can be a MH judge.



I'd recommend you keep your true identity hidden


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

When you enter a test, you are paying for the opinion of the 2 judges on the premium. If you don't want or respect their opinions, don't enter.


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

Todd Caswell said:


> I'd recommend you keep your true identity hidden


Why ???????


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

Dave Flint said:


> When you enter a test, you are paying for the opinion of the 2 judges on the premium. If you don't want or respect their opinions, don't enter.


No im NOT !!!!! 

Im running against a predetermined standard !!!


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Dave Flint said:


> When you enter a test, you are paying for the opinion of the 2 judges on the premium. If you don't want or respect their opinions, don't enter.


When we agree to judge, we accept the responsibility to judge fairly and in accordance with the rules. The handlers pour tons of time, money, and emotion into preparing their dogs to run. We, as judges owe the handlers our best effort to put on safe, fair, and fun tests. Some judges take this responsibility seriously and some do not. Just like some handlers accept the judges decisions better than others. As a judge, I expect some handlers to be disappointed and even mad with me, the elements, the dog, etc.

It appears from the responses that many are lacking that "thick skin" the op said is required. I agree with Breck, if you can't talk about a test or judge, you shouldn't talk about a handler. 

Not a productive conversation IMO.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

captainjack said:


> When we agree to judge, we accept the responsibility to judge fairly and in accordance with the rules. The handlers pour tons of time, money, and emotion into preparing their dogs to run. We, as judges owe the handlers our best effort to put on safe, fair, and fun tests. Some judges take this responsibility seriously and some do not. Just like some handlers accept the judges decisions better than others. As a judge, I expect some handlers to be disappointed and even mad with me, the elements, the dog, etc.
> 
> It appears from the responses that many are lacking that "thick skin" the op said is required. I agree with Breck, if you can't talk about a test or judge, you shouldn't talk about a handler.
> 
> Not a productive conversation IMO.



I agree!! askin questions Keeps experts sharp..


When I was younger and very sick fighting a life long problem... People,,who were going out of their way to help,, kept telling me..... "It's NONE of your business what people think of you"..

I am still trying to make sure, I focus on what my TRUE business is... Its VERY Hard... 

Gooser


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

richchief said:


> This past weekend I judged a master test. Do people come to these things thinking everyone that plays should get a pass? Come on! Dog gets a flyer in the first. Gunners do not kill the bird. Dog is sent, when dog goes to grab it bird tries to get away, dog runs away, handler stops dog, attempts to handle dog, dog won't handle back, so he gives up. Now he is pissed that he had a unfair test. I try to tell him it is not unfair but now I am an ass. Guy who is buddy of first guy gets to water blind, water blind is about 50 yards and half of that is land with a poison bird. After about 20 handles dog does get the blind but we drop him, it was ugly. Now after call backs he finds out he is not back and he is pissed, tells me it was not that bad. Now I am a bigger ass. Like they say, if they get the chicken they think they should get a pass. *I have gotten where I really respect the guy who picks up their dog when they know it is done. Wish I would see more of that. Just my two cents on the game.*


Life is unfair . 
The dog just never got a ribbon for the owner that day.
It is a game right ?


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> No im NOT !!!!!
> 
> Im running against a predetermined standard !!!


Then, I guess you don't even need a judge do you?.


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## richchief (Aug 19, 2014)

WOW BRECK I respect everyone and root for all dogs. Handlers should know and understand the rules before they run in a test. I meant no disrespect to anyone. If you want to take the other 8 or so assignments I have this year, seeing I am unfit to judge, let me know. That way I can spend more time training my dog.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

richchief said:


> WOW BRECK I respect everyone and root for all dogs. Handlers should know and understand the rules before they run in a test. I meant no disrespect to anyone. If you want to take the other 8 or so assignments I have this year, seeing I am unfit to judge, let me know. That way I can spend more time training my dog.


Yes WOW, the simple fact that you posted on the internet about your assignment as you did shows your disrespect for the participants who ran under you. The phone calls and PM's I received all supported my original comment. 
Keep judging or training as you like but consider good sportsmanship when posting on public forum. 
Cheers
.


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## richchief (Aug 19, 2014)

Thank you I will leave posting on pubic forums to the experts like you.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Breck said:


> Yes WOW, the simple fact that you posted on the internet about your assignment as you did shows your disrespect for the participants who ran under you. The phone calls and PM's I received all supported my original comment.
> Keep judging or training as you like but consider good sportsmanship when posting on public forum.
> Cheers
> .


I don't know if there's more to the story than has been written here, and in general I agree it's a bad idea to air dirty linen on the Internet, but this case seems so over the top, and nobody was called out by name, that I think you are being a bit harsh to the OP. 

The op judge didn't disrespect anybody other than the two handlers who were, in my opinion, way out of line. I would not have hesitated to write up the guy had he threatened me like that. I have been very angry a time or two when I felt I was treated unfairly but I managed to keep my mouth shut.


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## Kirk Keene (Jul 20, 2009)

I have ZERO problem with a judge venting from time to time. Let's see...he/she sat in a chair all weekend to watch the rest of our dogs' run. That could have been time spent with family, training, fishing...you get the picture. I can promise you he isn't getting rich sitting in the chair. Chances are, he's losing money. No names were mentioned...I fail to see the issue. 

I commend anyone willing to give up a weekend(s) judging, and don't know how some of you guys/gals manage to keep your tongue in check after listening to some of the handlers bitch. Sorry...rant over...


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

Final Flight Retrievers said:


> Why ???????


I think that's pretty self explanatory 😳


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## Todd Caswell (Jun 24, 2008)

If the original poster is who I think he is , he's a very good judge and very respectful and fair whether running Or judging.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I agree , Between running a boarding, breeding kennel and training dogs I don't have extra time to judge , BUT I see no problem with what the OP said . He did not name names, describe a dog etc. If people get self conscious and think it is about them good, maybe they will think about their behavior next time.


Kirk Keene said:


> I have ZERO problem with a judge venting from time to time. Let's see...he/she sat in a chair all weekend to watch the rest of our dogs' run. That could have been time spent with family, training, fishing...you get the picture. I can promise you he isn't getting rich sitting in the chair. Chances are, he's losing money. No names were mentioned...I fail to see the issue.
> 
> I commend anyone willing to give up a weekend(s) judging, and don't know how some of you guys/gals manage to keep your tongue in check after listening to some of the handlers bitch. Sorry...rant over...


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## sunnydee (Oct 15, 2009)

That must make me an odd duck to because I feel the same way. I have a strong respect for the touch job that judges have but there is one judge I will never run under again.


FOM said:


> I guess I'm an odd duck, I tend to give everyone respect until they prove otherwise, once they loose that, I will respect a position/office they may hold, but the person will always be questionable.
> 
> FOM


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Todd Caswell said:


> If the original poster is who I think he is , he's a very good judge and very respectful and fair whether running Or judging.


Then probably a good reason for the janitor asking for real names .


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## Good Dogs (Nov 1, 2005)

As a judge or a participant, if a someone had threatened to slash my tires I would have immediately reported the threat to the HT Committee. Depending on the location I might have also called the local sheriff. (Been through a union strike. Done the the slashed, nailed tires thing.) There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. None.


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

I think we all need to be like Lanse ....He sent out thank you cards to the judges BEFORE he left for the event he was entered in that weekend was what was told to me ... And having never met me , he offered to let me train with him if I was ever out his way ...Please remember the Retriever world was here before you , and will be here after you , despite our dogs way too short life span . Good manners will never be out of style . Judges and Handlers - Stay civil regards.........


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

It's a small world. The retriever world is even smaller. And the Hunt Test world is a small slice of that. There is not a possibility in heck that eventually, that kind of behavior (and I'm guessing it's characteristic of this handler) is NOT going to be widely known.

Let me quote from the AKC publication _Dealing with Misconduct_:

Proceedings under Article XIV, Section 1 of The Charter and Bylaws of the American Kennel Club, Inc., may involve different types of conduct. _One test in connection with any kind of scene or altercation occurring during an event is whether a family attending an event for the first time would be likely to decide, after witnessing such an incident, that the sport is not for them._ While the number of people witnessing the incident should be taken into consideration, _conduct that is known to only one or two people at an event can also be prejudicial to the sport_. _Among the kinds of conduct that mayoccur are: a demonstration of dissatisfaction with a judge's decision_, including refusal to accept a ribbon or throwing a ribbon on the ground*, altercations with officials or participants; _abusive or foul language in public_; and mistreatment of a dog.

* _Judges are advised to report to the Event Committee any abusive language directed to them_ or any refusal to follow their instructions, as well as ay improper suggestions or requests they might receive to favor a particlar dog. _Such reports are required not so much for the protection of the individual judge, as to protect the integrity of the sport._

Perhaps it is appropriate for this judge to ring up the HT Committee and advise them about what has happened... even if nothing is done about it immediately. Not out of any animus this judge has for the person who was abusive, but for the integrity of the sport.


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## Arnie (Nov 26, 2012)

As a first time Hunt Test Chairman I have just learned how hard it can be to find and organize judges for a test. I've been at this game for about 5 years now and trained a dog to a Master title so I thought it's time to give back and start apprenticing to become a judge. I mentor a couple of Junior/Senior handlers. I think I could judge at that level BUT.. this thread has me questioning whether it's worth committing the effort to qualify as a judge or worth giving up opportunities to run my own dog(s).


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## Larry R. Heil (Aug 18, 2005)

words of wisdom


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

You're right. It does take commitment and unselfishness to judge and not get to run your own dog. But there are rewards. You just have to look for them.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Arnie said:


> As a first time Hunt Test Chairman I have just learned how hard it can be to find and organize judges for a test. I've been at this game for about 5 years now and trained a dog to a Master title so I thought it's time to give back and start apprenticing to become a judge. I mentor a couple of Junior/Senior handlers. I think I could judge at that level BUT.. this thread has me questioning whether it's worth committing the effort to qualify as a judge or worth giving up opportunities to run my own dog(s).



Fair enough.

Now imagine if all the current Licensed judges did the same.....

"Sine qua non" regards - look it up.......Paul


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## Arnie (Nov 26, 2012)

paul young said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Now imagine if all the current Licensed judges did the same.....
> 
> "Sine qua non" regards - look it up.......Paul


I know it is necessary, now I have to convince myself that I have the temperament to do it. I've been an active participant since I was a novice first running Junior. You could always find me running a winger or volunteering for anything necessary. Over the years my responsibilities to our club have grown. Judging is different. I'm giving it a lot of thought.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Arnie said:


> I know it is necessary, now I have to convince myself that I have the temperament to do it.


Look at it this way ... usually you'll get the best lunch on the grounds.

I've gotten home from a lot assignments and just plain swore it off. Too much heat or rain or dust or wind or sleet. Too little help or equipment or handlers/dogs on time. A good night's sleep cures all of that and leaves you with really good memories of you and your co-judge just chatting between dogs and having the best seat in the house. Besides, there are all those really great lunches ... 

With you being at the 5 yr point with 1 Master dog, you are the perfect candidate for a judging apprenticeship. Really.


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

I have met some of the nicest folks in the world judging Master/Finished tests, and the other HT stakes. I have also met a very few total jerks. So far the nice folks have outweighed the total jerks. But a few total jerks can outweigh a lot of really nice folks!


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## richchief (Aug 19, 2014)

Just to add why you should judge. You will learn a ton what to do and what not to do. I have yet to judge where I did not pick up some tips on running dogs and it is the best seat in the house.


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## Good Dogs (Nov 1, 2005)

"Judging is different. I'm giving it a lot of thought."

Now that's indicative a good potential judge. Someone else said, "Beware of folks who want to judge badly. 'Cause they probably will."


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## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

I understand the need for good judges and judging. I appreciate the value in learning to judge. I enjoy the feeling I get after I've done a good job. I learn something every time I judge. But I still ask myself why I do it.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Arnie said:


> As a first time Hunt Test Chairman I have just learned how hard it can be to find and organize judges for a test. I've been at this game for about 5 years now and trained a dog to a Master title so I thought it's time to give back and start apprenticing to become a judge. I mentor a couple of Junior/Senior handlers. I think I could judge at that level BUT.. this thread has me questioning whether it's worth committing the effort to qualify as a judge or worth giving up opportunities to run my own dog(s).


Arnie, if you want to play you have to pay by judging, that is what makes the wheel go around. I know good field trial judges who enjoy the experience and some like me who view it as an obligation, I would prefer to sit on the sidelines and run my dog but if everyone did that we would have no opportunity to run.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Let me echo what Ed said

The retriever games are dependent upon volunteer help: the club members who organize the event, the workers who help put on the event, and the judges. Those who play have an obligation to organize, work, and judge. Unfortunately, there are those who do none of these and simply play. If everyone took that tack, there would be no place to play.

Ted


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

Judging experience and who you know play a big part in what judges are used. As for HT judging way too many hoops and time to qualify. I have had a judges number since the early 1980s when I judged some pointing dog events and took the retriever trial test to get it re-activated. I judged a Qual and Derby last year. Enjoyed the experience and hope the handlers did as well. My goal in judging is to be fair to the dogs and handlers and come up with the best ones that day. I also make it known I am there to help as much as I can in gunning, etc. I am limited physically however but do what I can.

Jeff


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

GulfCoast said:


> I have met some of the nicest folks in the world judging Master/Finished tests, and the other HT stakes. I have also met a very few total jerks. So far the nice folks have outweighed the total jerks. But a few total jerks can outweigh a lot of really nice folks! [/QUOTE
> 
> Knowing you, I would think that you would see the jerks as cheap entertainment.
> MP


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Good marshals and good crews of young folks to help with set-up and any of the step and fetchit kind of work. We also try to supply judges with whatever they need for necessary physical comfort... like a pop-up to keep sun/rain off. We can't do anything about the heat and cold. We just do what we can... we owe them so much.


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