# ATTN TX Residents!



## Buttercup (Jul 16, 2006)

As many of you have heard, the Rockwall Retriever Club spring 2011 hunt test was held this past weekend. An incident occurred where 3 Texas Parks & Wildlife Department officers showed up and dismantled the trial for over 3 hours. During that time they were provided valid documentation as to the nature of the event, the origin of the birds being used, and the licensing required to hold a sanctioned event. Despite the documentation being validated, the game wardens systematically dismantled each of the 3 running events one-by-one. During this time they individually inspected birds for banding and checked each flyer shooter for a valid TX hunting license and state migratory bird stamp. While the club did not receive any citations, a single citation was issued to a volunteer flyer shooter from out of state. If state game law violations are so infrequent as to warrant the oversight of sanctioned sporting dog events by multiple game wardens from local and surrounding counties, I would advise each of you to demand justification of the states’ resources. I encourage each of you to contact the AKC, UKC, your local representatives at the state and federal level, including Governor Rick Perry’s office, your state legislator, state senator, US congressperson, and US senator to express your concerns surrounding the misappropriation of state resources. You must also contact the Texas Parks and Wildlife Departments director, Colonel Peter Flores, at (512) 389-4845 to voice your concerns. These are private events held on private property that do not impact state resources. Please take a stand to protect our right to participate in a field trial or hunt test without irresponsible state and local interference. It is imperative that you act immediately as a representative of the Rockwall Retriever Club will be meeting with Governor Rick Perry this week to discuss the matter in person. This type of harassment must be stopped immediately.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Buttercup said:


> As many of you have heard, the Rockwall Retriever Club spring 2011 hunt test was held this past weekend. An incident occurred where 3 Texas Parks & Wildlife Department officers showed up and dismantled the trial for over 3 hours. During that time they were provided valid documentation as to the nature of the event, the origin of the birds being used, and the licensing required to hold a sanctioned event. Despite the documentation being validated, the game wardens systematically dismantled each of the 3 running events one-by-one. During this time they individually inspected birds for banding and checked each flyer shooter for a valid TX hunting license and state migratory bird stamp. While the club did not receive any citations, a single citation was issued to a volunteer flyer shooter from out of state. If state game law violations are so infrequent as to warrant the oversight of sanctioned sporting dog events by multiple game wardens from local and surrounding counties, I would advise each of you to demand justification of the states’ resources. I encourage each of you to contact the AKC, UKC, your local representatives at the state and federal level, including Governor Rick Perry’s office, your state legislator, state senator, US congressperson, and US senator to express your concerns surrounding the misappropriation of state resources. You must also contact the Texas Parks and Wildlife Departments director, Colonel Peter Flores, at (512) 389-4845 to voice your concerns. *These are private events held on private property that do not impact state resources. *Please take a stand to protect our right to participate in a field trial or hunt test without irresponsible state and local interference. It is imperative that you act immediately as a representative of the Rockwall Retriever Club will be meeting with Governor Rick Perry this week to discuss the matter in person. This type of harassment must be stopped immediately.



Not that I condone what the TP&W, but anything in the state that involves the shooting of game birds, especially waterfowl, comes under the jurisdiction of the TP&W..it does not matter if it happens on private property..GW's have broader powers of jurisdiction than regular peace officers in the state

the only thing I can think of is that some animal rights group,filed a complaint and TP&W had no choice but to investigate..the fact that they only cited the OOS'er leads me to believe that they had no choice and didnt want to disrupt the process..it is unfortunate that it held up the process and disrupted the event...


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## Scott Parker (Mar 19, 2009)

Aren't those birds considered domestic why would you need a migratory bird stamp and if you have the proper permits and paper work they should have just check them and not interrupted the tests.


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

Was the event actually delayed 3 hrs? If it was it doesn't sound like they were simply following up on a complaint.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

> Q: What is a field trial?
> A: The hunting of banded pen-reared birds in a formal trial of bird dogs that has
> been licensed or sanctioned by an organization or association of bird dog
> clubs, with or without the awarding of points (Section 43.071(4), Parks and
> ...



direct from the TP&W regulations book


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Wow. Somebody had an axe to grind or something. What a waste of time and energy on the part of TPWD. I've been approached by wardens, but generally once they know what is going on, they quickly move on. That Rockwall club sure seems to be snake-bit, but I hope they hang around and continue to put on trials and tests.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Charles C. said:


> Wow. * Somebody had an axe to grind or something.* What a waste of time and energy on the part of TPWD. I've been approached by wardens, but generally once they know what is going on, they quickly move on. That Rockwall club sure seems to be snake-bit, but I hope they hang around and continue to put on trials and tests.



Yup that was my first thought too


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## Buttercup (Jul 16, 2006)

In an effort to further explain, the clubs issue is not whether the game wardens had a right to be there or to investigate. Our issue is whether that represents the best use of their resources. Initially they arrived and were provided documentation regarding the origin of the bird, and all the required state licensing and permits needed to hold an event. At that point they chose to systematically and completely dismantle each stake and conduct further inspections. The process was disrespectful, intrusive and completely unnecissary. They did shut the test down for 3 hours, or more, as they proceded from stake to stake repeating their efforts. If you feel this is a proper use of the states fish and game resources then you have no obligation to voice your concerns to the legislation. However, if you feel as I do the please join me in contacting your representatives and express your concern.


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

My guess would be they were just trying to do their jobs, or at least they thought they were.


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

It seems that inspections like this would be done a day before an event. Checking licenses during an event is quick. That would be like stopping a football game to make everyone pee in a cup.


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

Thanks for informing us of this incident. It may be legal but it isn't right. I will contact Gov Perry's office and TP&W.


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

What was the justification for dismantleing the tests at each stake??? Do you mean that everything was brought in???


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Is this the reason for the cancellation of the FT at Rockwall in a couple of weeks?
If so I would think local innkeepers, restraunt owners and merchants may want to join your letter writing campaign


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

I don't live in Texas, but I will call anyways. I got there the following day to run seniors. I hope the Rockwall club will not get discouraged and continue to hold events. It was a GREAT hunt test. Being from a small town it was nice to go to a big city, eat at some nice restaurants, take the wife shopping, and run our dog all in a 1 day.

Again, GREAT event!


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> So, under the guise of 'doing their job' there was no better way to do it then to hold up a bunch of *obvious* thugs and law breakers, for 3 hours?
> What nonsense. Is there no way to weed out these mental defectives before they gain positions of power?
> Walt


This might just be the price you pay to have an event so close to a big city. Damn tree huggers


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

savage25xtreme said:


> I don't live in Texas, but I will call anyways. I got there the following day to run seniors. I hope the Rockwall club will not get discouraged and continue to hold events. It was a GREAT hunt test. Being from a small town it was nice to go to a big city, eat at some nice restaurants, take the wife shopping, and run our dog all in a 1 day.
> 
> Again, GREAT event!


Wait, Rockwall is big? :shock::shock::shock::shock:


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

It helps when the club and it's members "get to know" the local game wardens.

My Texas club invites both of them to do gun safety seminars at our facility, at our expense, for the general public and we encourage them to get involved with the club. We have an ongoing relationship with them at all times. We have been in existence as a club for almost 25 years now and never had an issue.

If we ever have any questions, we give them a call. They have always been very cooperative and willing to help us stay within the law.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

mjh345 said:


> Is this the reason for the cancellation of the FT at Rockwall in a couple of weeks?
> If so I would think local innkeepers, restraunt owners and merchants may want to join your letter writing campaign


The club was informed by TP&W law enforcement that they would be back for the field trial, club officials decided they could not afford to spend another 3 hours in the midst of a large entry field trial, too much potential brain damage considering the rich financial rewards.

This was not a logical utilization of law enforcement resources considering the number of game law violations that occur on a daily basis unless TP&W does not think such offenses are occurring in which case the law enforcement division of TP&W is obviously over funded.

One of my suggestions to my State Senator, Representative, and Texas Parks and Wildlife Commissioner is a review of funding for the law enforcement division. Bureaucrats understand budgets and that is where they are most vulnerable, particularly when the State is running large budget deficits including public school funding.



Dman said:


> It helps when the club and it's members "get to know" the local game wardens..


It is my understanding that the "local" law enforcement officer was out of town and 3 young wardens were brought in from another jurisdiction.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

EdA said:


> It is my understanding that the "local" law enforcement officer was out of town and 3 young wardens were brought in from another jurisdiction.


That explains it then.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I contacted TP&W. I called my state representative's office.
The best I could get was a LT in the Ft. Worth office. I could of course fill out a form. From her I got the bureaucratic tap dance. I am I sure this really happened? Was I there personally? How can I rely on an annoynmous (sp?) source on the internet. We have multiple game wardens ride in the same vehicle to conserve on gas. Gosh, now they send two people to do the job of one to save gas!

My state representative took the information down but I don't hold out much hope that anything will be done. 

My major complaint that I conveyed to them:
Too much disruption for an easy task
Too much manpower for a simple task

However they must have saved on gas by all them riding together. I am really upset. I sure hope the Rockwall RC has better luck with the meeting with the governor as the people I talked to didn't seem to give a hoot.


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

There were 192 entries in the HTest. If we were to contact the City to discuss the loss of revenue caused by cancellation of the field trial, which office should we contact? IMO it will be best if we all contact the same office.

We had a similar issue in WI several years ago. The local businesses that benefited monetarily from our events did not know that "tree huggers" were attempting to block our use of a wildlife area.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

local Chambers of Commerce who represent the business interests of the area 
*
Rockwall Chamber of Commerce*

*697 E Interstate 30, Rockwall, TX 75087-5502 
*

*(972) 771-5733*



http://rockwallchamber.org/life/pages.cfm?id=17


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

Steve Hester said:


> My guess would be they were just trying to do their jobs, or at least they thought they were.


The problem is...what they prerceive their jobs to be! If its to hassle law-abiding citizens, and keep digging and harassing until a minutia violation is found on every hunter in their jurisdiction that they check....then they're just doing their jobs. Otherwise, they're being abusive.

EdA, I'm so sorry to hear an event was trashed by an overzealous public servent. I don't know if they have any idea how much money, time, and effort by GOOD people go into an event. Both on the part of the organizers and all the participants who booked out a weekend to attend. I'd have the committee write and co-sign a complaint to the governor, or try and get every participant to also sign on who is willing.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

dnf777 said:


> . I'd have the committee write and co-sign a complaint to the governor, or try and get every participant to also sign on who is willing.


President of the club has a meeting in the Governor's office tomorrow


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

EdA said:


> President of the club has a meeting in the Governor's office tomorrow


Ruh-roh!


You know, the most frustrating part of this type of thing, is we know that most, if not all, retriever enthusiasts are good, responsible stewards of the shrinking natural resources we have.

There could be a wonderful collaboration between retriever clubs and Deptartments of natural resources in all the states, but instead, a few try to exert their authority and ruin that spirit all too often.

Good luck, and I hope a little "attitude adjustment" is in order for the TPW!

"Can't we all just get along?"


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

dnf777 said:


> Ruh-roh!
> 
> 
> You know, the most frustrating part of this type of thing, is we know that most, if not all, retriever enthusiasts are good, responsible stewards of the shrinking natural resources we have.
> ...


Club President and Gov both Aggies


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

EdA said:


> Club President and Gov both Aggies


WHOOOOOOOOOP!!!!


Don't be surprised if you have two new bird boys at your next training day!


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

As Treasurer and Board member of the Rockwall club, I would like to reply and thank everyone for their support. We had the appropriate documents, etc., and did not receive any citations. We feel that the "investigation" was beyond reason and excessive, but also acknowledge the fact that the game wardens have every right to be there. Of course we plan to continue as a club, but needed time to regroup between this event and our field trial. We will probably apply to AKC for a Fall 2011 FT or have one again next Spring, as well as having a Spring 2012 HT. Our club is made up of responsible people who want to do what is good for this sport, and we had several reasons for canceling the upcoming event. Ed summed them up nicely in his most recent post. It would be unfair for people to come and experience the disruption this "investigation" caused. We thought their weekend could be better spent at another ft. Please consider volunteering to help if you go to an alternative trial because the numbers will probably be larger. 

Chris is the club President, and he is in Austin this week for other legislative reasons related to his work. He was contacted by someone in the Governor's office related to this incident and has the opportunity to meet with Governor Perry or talk to him by phone. We were also contacted last night by lobbyists who are helping him set up appointments with several different legislators. We are fortunate to live in a state that still has lawmakers concerned with our rights as hunters, outdoorsmen and women, etc., and I am personally proud of that as a sixth generation Texan. We are planning to take this opportunity and use the voice that this unfortunate incident has given us. Please help us by calling your state legislators and the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. This is a great opportunity to advance our sport and our voice in Texas. Texas Parks and Wildlife Department number in Garland, Texas is: 972-226-9966. Ask to speak with the Captain or leave him a message. The Garland Office address is: 346 Oaks Trail, Ste 100, Garland TX 75043. The state number is: 800-792-1112 or 512-389-4800, and address is: 4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX 78744.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Something tells me there's something more going on... besides just a little overzealous Texass law enforcement. Something personal somewhere.



> Club President and Gov both Aggies


So what difference does it make if they're gay?

;-)


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## mleenp (Jul 18, 2004)

As a participant who drove from Tulsa, Ok to attend, I'd be willing to sign anything if it would help. I was in disbelief that these guys were called out to check if the Hunt Test was complying under all the rules that are set. We had sixty dogs in our flight and was already running short on time when these guys showed up. Yes, they did check every bird both at the line and at the flyer station. They had to be asked to at least hold off until the current working dog was running!! One of the game wardens were asked where he was from and he said the San Antonio area. I couldn't believe that a game warden was sent to check on a Hunt Test in Northeast TX when that's not even his territory to cover. Wasteless use of funds in my opinion!! I've been running test for seven years and have never seen this happen before. I hope I dont see it again..!! Thank you Rockwall retriever club for hosting the test and I hope you continue to have them. Overall, it was an enjoyable weekend despite the interruption.

Matt Lee
Bixby, Ok


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## RailRoadRetrievers (Feb 4, 2004)

Keith Stroyan said:


> So what difference does it make if they're gay?
> 
> ;-)


I know this is a serious thread, but to allow this nugget of greatness to go by without comment would be a crime....

Greatness!!


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Well, OK, I thought that's what "Aggie" meant.

But what's the difference where they went to school? Something's wrong that needs to be fixed.

(There's got to be more to it...)


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## J Taylor (May 2, 2009)

I watched the TP&W officers check 2 of the 3 tests at Rockwall. I didn't talk to any of the them, but I didn't see anything other than their courteously doing their job. I have to wonder where they got their information that something was wrong at the test. 

They may have been on the grounds for 3 hours, but I don't think our flight was down for more than an hour. It was an hour that we couldn't afford to lose, but since it was the lunch hour, I kept wondering why the someone didn't bring lunches to the crew to make use of the time. I can imagine the club was busy though. From the timing, I doubt that the other 2 tests lost any more time than we did. 

Assuming the TP&W had word that something was wrong, what were they supposed to do - ignore it? They came. They checked things out. They addressed the problem they found. They talked to the club officials and they left.

J Taylor


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## Buttercup (Jul 16, 2006)

Chris McCool is meeting with his local representative in Austin, TX tomorrow afternoon. Her name is Jodie Laubenberg. Please contact her via her website to express you opinion on the matter. Her web address is http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/member-page/?district=89, which includes a link to email her. Please respond ASAP so that the Representative Laubenberg will have time to review the coorespondence prior to the meeting.


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

>>Assuming the TP&W had word that something was wrong, what were they supposed to do - ignore it? They came. They checked things out. They addressed the problem they found. They talked to the club officials and they left.<<

I don't think they had to interrupt the test at all. They could have checked out the private license/permits etc, paper work for the movement/purchase of the birds, spot check to see that birds were banded and been on their way. It would have been pretty evident that everything was on the up and up.

I have called my State Senator and Representative and written the Rockwall Chamber of Commerce. In addition I have notified members of Safari Club, etc. in the Dallas are. This is just an example of the government over reaching. I am more than tired of it.

Being a courteous AH doesn't let them off the hook.


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

> It is my understanding that the "local" law enforcement officer was out of town and 3 young wardens were brought in from another jurisdiction.


Local warden probably called in sick because he wanted no part of it.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Personnally I have had only had experience with one TX game warden. In Lake Proctors heyday I was regularily checked by the local warden. There was never a cross word as we were legal and he was professional. 
This incident makes me wonder about the leadership of the department. This kind of harrassment doesn't happen without some gap in leadership somewhere.
Someone commented that the local warden was absent. So someone had to initiate such a large investigation that required three wardens. The culprit is most likely the local CAPT who supervises this area. I feel positive that he isn't an AGGIE. This was just plain stupid! 

I hope there is a followup report on the meeting with the Governor.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

How did a teasip get all the way to Iowa?


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## PocketLab (Apr 23, 2010)

I have to wonder why no other club is having issues if this is a TPWF issue?


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

EdA said:


> President of the club has a meeting in the Governor's office tomorrow


I think Perry is a Lab person. Didn't he breed his bitch to Jay Patton's Reno a couple of years ago?


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks for reminding us about Jay's Reno and the Governors bitch. I had forgotten about that. Jay told me about it and it was humorous. When he received the call he thought it was one of his friends pulling a joke on him Although I think it is the Govs sons dog. I don't recall the ages of his kids.

I think TP&W is in the need for some serious refresher courses in PR. The natives are restless. I sure wouldn't want to be the superviser of that area. 

I am sure the head of TP&W doesn't like congressional inquiries and calls from the Gov. on the conduct of his troops. Bad press is never good especially when there are no criminals involved, just good Texas citizens.


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

The thing is that these guys were sent to check on what was going on was not a random thing. Someone had to direct them as to time and dates. I would also guess someone had enough pull with some sort of complaint to make this happen. These guys were not just driving down the road and happen upon this event. Everyone has a boss regards....


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Steve Amrein said:


> The thing is that these guys were sent to check on what was going on was not a random thing. Someone had to direct them as to time and dates. I would also guess someone had enough pull with some sort of complaint to make this happen. These guys were not just driving down the road and happen upon this event. Everyone has a boss regards....


The suspected perpetrator is known and highly suspected by the locals but why would TPWD act on the information from an unknown without first checking out the source, isn't that just common sense?


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

EdA said:


> local Chambers of Commerce who represent the business interests of the area
> 
> _*Rockwall Chamber*_* of Commerce*
> 
> ...


;-) That is the best path.


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

EdA said:


> The suspected perpetrator is known and highly suspected by the locals but why would TPWD act on the information from an unknown without first checking out the source, isn't that just common sense?


Common sense/Game Ranger


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## Lonny Taylor (Jun 22, 2004)

I was at the event while two of the inspections took place and was amazed that atleast three officers were used to do what one could have done. While I have been down here on winter trip I have been hearing on the news about TX having to cut their education budget and layoff employees but spent the money on this many employees to harrass a legally permitted and licensed event. I want to thank the Rockwall Retriever club for putting on this event. They did an outstanding job considering the circumstances. I loved having a event I could run on my way home from my winter trip and will have it on my schedule again next year. 

For those folks that were following my son(Isaac) progress at the State Wrestling Championship along with me. He ended up taking 5th place. As a freshman to add this along with his team state championship ring he has his dad bursting his buttons. The coaches are wanting him to consider Greco Roman style wrestling. He is starting baseball now and already priming for his football camps. 

regards,

LT


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## Fieldrep12 (Feb 12, 2009)

I have been involved with hunt tests for twenty five years in TX and
have had to deal with obtaining permits from TXPW and trying to get questions
answered.They have never gave me the impression that they condone
what we do.
Other states promote dog trials and go as far as developing areas
to hold such events. I would bet that the money generated from fee's
and licenses to TXPW would exceed these other states.Sad!


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## Patti Benton (Jan 6, 2003)

I know when my husband went to get a permit, the TXPW didn't even know what he was talking about. He informed them of the regulation.

My husband and I have been involved in the hunt test game for over 16 years. We got involved in Illinois. We would train in Wisconsin at Bong Recreational Area. Wisconsin does it right. They have numersous State Parks with area just for dog training, hunt tests and field trials. Even the HRC Grand has been held at Bong. There are other states which do the same thing. As much money as hunters spend on hunting, equipment, lodging etc, you'd think the state would be more proactive at working with the dog club organizations or hunting organizations.


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## El General (Aug 20, 2004)

> One of my suggestions to my State Senator, Representative, and Texas Parks and Wildlife Commissioner is a review of funding for the law enforcement division. Bureaucrats understand budgets and that is where they are most vulnerable, particularly when the State is running large budget deficits including public school funding.


While I don't condone the use of resources in this case, Texas game wardens do provide a vital service to wildlife conservation and are severely underfunded and undermanned. Protesting their funding may do more overall harm than good.

There is a bigger picture here than just dog games.

It has been my experience that nearly all game wardens are professional and courteous. It is also obvious that someone with an ax to grind has persuaded someone in the hierarchy of TP&W Law Enforcement to target this group. Certainly, that should be protested loudly.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

El General said:


> are severely underfunded and undermanned. .


If so they need new management to more efficiently utilize their resources.


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

> While I don't condone the use of resources in this case, Texas game wardens do provide a vital service to wildlife conservation and are severely underfunded and undermanned. Protesting their funding may do more overall harm than good.
> There is a bigger picture here than just dog games.
> It has been my experience that nearly all game wardens are professional and courteous. It is also obvious that someone with an ax to grind has persuaded someone in the hierarchy of TP&W Law Enforcement to target this group. Certainly, that should be protested loudly.


Then maybe they should issue an apology. Dumb actions are option followed by consequences.


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

I just hope that some how, some way, the a$$ that called the game warden could get what's coming to him. He's stirred up enough trouble over the years.


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

I just got off the phone with my State Representatives liaison. She had spoken with the TP & W representative and he was very aware of the situation. He said that they were responding to a complaint of illegal activity and they found a number of violations and let it slide. Among the violations they uncovered included release of unbanded birds, banding birds after they were killed and shooting migratory game birds with toxic shot. (lead) He claimed they didn't write them up out of the mercy of their heart. I told her I couldn't confirm these accusations, but would inquire. He kept on telling her that they were protecting "migratory game birds". My reply to her was simply "only a bureaucrat could make the argument that pen raised mallards were migratory game birds." I also told her by that logic they should have arrested everyone involved for shooting ducks out of season and exceeding legal limits etc. Can anyone confirm these violations occurred?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

J Connolly said:


> I just got off the phone with my State Representatives liaison. She had spoken with the TP & W representative and he was very aware of the situation. He said that they were responding to a complaint of illegal activity and they found a number of violations and let it slide. Among the violations they uncovered included release of unbanded birds, banding birds after they were killed and shooting migratory game birds with toxic shot. (lead) He claimed they didn't write them up out of the mercy of their heart. I told her I couldn't confirm these accusations, but would inquire. He kept on telling her that they were protecting "migratory game birds". My reply to her was simply "only a bureaucrat could make the argument that pen raised mallards were migratory game birds." I also told her by that logic they should have arrested everyone involved for shooting ducks out of season and exceeding legal limits etc. Can anyone confirm these violations occurred?


The truth is a disgruntled person in collusion with an as yet unidentified officer of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department conspired to harass the club, it was a set up from the beginning and hopefully someone's job performance will be questioned. All the rhetoric is just an _attempted coverup._

The ducks were pen raised, toes removed in accordance with Federal regulations, the game bird breeder is well known and was on sight, invoices were available showing the number purchased and when, they were hand released and one person did not have a proper hunting license.

Someone somewhere has determined that domestic ducks shot on private land with lead shot violates the law. While one could argue that if shot over water non-toxic shot should be used as long as lead shot is legally used on land what difference does it matter if the game bird is a domestic duck or pheasant.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

I think many of you should stop to think a little before jumping on the bandwagon. It's fairly well known that the person that called in the complaint has issues and the complaint was personally motivated. His past actions should have already had him banned from the sport but that's another issue.
- Game wardens don't have any broader powers than any other TX peace officer.
- Just because the guy said he's from San Antonio doesn't mean that he drove all the way from there. Maybe he was "from" there as in born and raised.
- It is possible that the number of responding wardens was as a result or one or more being new officers in training. This would also help explain why a citation was issued. They have to learn some way and sometimes that means taking action that a more seasoned officer may not have taken in similar circumstances.
- For those that don't like the whole "migratory bird" vs. pen raised bird issue, that's a federal deal. You should be crying to Washington. But the short of it is, we have rules and those are the rules whether we agree or like them or not, we have to abide by them. Don't got crying when you get caught. If "you" found the regulations so appaling and heavy handed, you should have already been doing something about it. We all know the rules going into these events and shouldn't be surprised when someone actually shows up to check on our compliance to those rules regardless if it's behind one person's illtempered attempt to fulfill a personal agenda.
I'm not certain but I bet they could have shut the whole event down for good so think how that would have gone over.

And in closing I want you all to stop and remember that those officers make relativeliy little money putting thier lives on the line everyday. They do what they do becaus they felt a calling to it not because it's glamorous or a power trip. And just like in every job you or I do, there are parts of it they don't like but that's why it's called work and sometimes we just have to do what needs to be done.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I sure don't understand how the TP&W could have shut down the event. Seems to me that this event was run just like everyone I have ever been too. Maybe it is time for the national organizations to get involved: AKC and UKC. 
Being paid poorly doesn't excuse anything. Are we going to allow teachers to abuse their power? They are generally paid poorly.
It also sounds like the TP&W is going into full coverup mode. If the TP&W doesn't issue an apology then I will have lost all respect for that department.


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

>>toes removed<<
For my education does this substitute for being banded?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

J Connolly said:


> >>toes removed<<
> For my education does this substitute for being banded?


They are also banded but that is a State regulation not a Federal one, the toe or dewclaw removal identifies the bird as a domestic mallard thereby satisfying the Federal law


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

I did get a call from a participant that did confirmed the birds were not banded.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Steve Hester said:


> I just hope that some how, some way, the a$$ that called the game warden could get what's coming to him. He's stirred up enough trouble over the years.


Which leads one to wonder why someone in a position of authority would think there was an ounce of credibility to the claim. Perhaps a simple telephone call to the club questioning his motivation and outlining the allegations could have prevented the entire matter.

And anyone who thinks there are wild mallard ducks in Rockwall Texas in late March, much less a couple of hundred in poultry crates.......


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

J Connolly said:


> I did get a call from a participant that did confirmed the birds were not banded.


It is my understanding that they were banded at the line after the dog retrieved them. This is not an uncommon practice and it's a helluva lot easier than doing it in the field on a live bird.

What do the regs state? They must be banded prior to arriving on trial grounds? Prior to being crated? Within 5 seconds of being removed from the crate, or within 30 seconds of being removed from the crate?

SM


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

I understand he's friends with the local warden that's in charge in this area.


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

When our club was up and running many years ago we always banded the birds when the arrived at the grounds. 

I will look up the rule.


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

The law says the birds have to be banded before release. You must have a hunting license with a state duck stamp to shoot pen raised mallards or an upland stamp to shoot pheasant. You are not required to have a federal duck stamp.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Jan Connolly, Which law is that? Pls give me the reference. Thanks in advance. Wayne


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Without naming names, what could this person's reasons be for interrupting an event?

Eric


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/licenses/media/PWD_348a_Private_Bird_Hunting_Area_Information.pdf 

Read them and weep


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Eric Johnson said:


> Without naming names, what could this person's reasons be for interrupting an event?
> 
> Eric


In a twisted way some derive pleasure from the misery of others.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

That regulation has so many holes in it that a first year law student could rip it to shreds. Just goes to show you that anyone can dreg up something if they want to be a$$holes. Quite a number of years ago I was training with one of Jim Gonia's assistants. We had ducks that were bought from a game farm with a receipt but no leg band. A Wash. State game warden gave the trainer a ticket. The federal game warden, who was helping the game bird raiser get started, called the judge and got the charge dismissed.
I stand by my position that unless TP&W issues an apology then they are a bunch of no good idiots.


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

Well, those are the rules in black in white for everybody to see. I agree that they are burdensome and intrusive, but if we don't like them we should get them changed.


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## El General (Aug 20, 2004)

EdA said:


> If so they need new management to more efficiently utilize their resources.


I agree. The officer that dispatched three game wardens for this should be held responsible.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

J Connolly said:


> Well, those are the rules in black in white for everybody to see. I agree that they are burdensome and intrusive, but if we don't like them we should get them changed.


 Much easier said than done, especially without a friendly Congressperson in Austin. There have been 2 revisions of the law since the mid 1970s and each revision was more burdensome (multiple licenses, signage, approval, etc.) and expensive than it's predecessor. Each time TP&WD personnel had significant input into the revisions, never was there significant input from the sporting dog community. 

Oklahoma has a very simple law, one annual license for the field trials, no signage requirements, very user friendly. The Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation actually embraces the sporting dog community rather than treating them as an adversary as the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department does.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

What I learned form this (that's new for me) is: never help at an out-of-state club. 

I've gunned to help in different States without knowing the local laws. Sounds like a Good Samaritan got burned worst.

Too bad the club wasn't letter perfect, I'd guess in private the Law officers aren't feeling too good about the whole thing, either.

One A--hole is the only happy one.

Where's the Internet Bus when you need it? ;-)


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

Yes, the rules are in black and white, but evidently not that clear on all matters because we had some questions the game wardens could not answer for us on Saturday, questions that they answered incorrectly for us when we visited the Garland DPW office back in January to clarify some of these same issues then, and questions that several people on this forum are debating today. Again, we did not receive a citation. All of the birds there were pen-raised, period. Quite frankly, many responders to this thread don't know what they are talking about relating to details surrounding this incident, and are missing the main point of the matter. 

The main point is that we feel that the resources of a state agency were used in a grossly inappropriate manner, and believe me, through our discussions with state legislators today, they have been made aware of exactly what we are talking about. Any spin put on the incident is very transparent. It is inappropriate for me to discuss further details on this forum. We feel law enforcement mis-used and out-of-control is dangerous. This department ought to be a friend of the hunt test and field trial community, not foe, in that we, in general, are a target population to promote hunting, fishing, and outdoor sports which keep them in jobs. We also support them when they are out doing their job properly and using agency resources appropriately. Also, they serve the people of Texas, not vice versa. They had every right to be there, and "investigate" in an appropriate manner. Absolutely no one involved argues that point except that the way that they came about to be there in the first place and the excessive "manpower" sent are questionable in our opinion. Also, it seems excessive that with three of them out there that it took so long to "investigate." As Chris eloquently stated, "It is amazing that on a bright, sunny day that at least two of the three weren't sent out to Lake Ray Hubbard to patrol the lake instead of "investigating" an event with a bunch of old folks."


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

EdA said:


> *Much easier said than done, especially without a friendly Congressperson in Austin*. There have been 2 revisions of the law since the mid 1970s and each revision was more burdensome (multiple licenses, signage, approval, etc.) and expensive than it's predecessor. Each time TP&WD personnel had significant input into the revisions, never was there significant input from the sporting dog community.
> 
> Oklahoma has a very simple law, one annual license for the field trials, no signage requirements, very user friendly. The Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation actually embraces the sporting dog community rather than treating them as an adversary as the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department does.


Have you tried calling the State Rep for Distirict 64, isnt she your Rep, if not I will call her,I always enjoy talking to her...


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

waynenutt said:


> I sure don't understand how the TP&W could have shut down the event. Seems to me that this event was run just like everyone I have ever been too. Maybe it is time for the national organizations to get involved: AKC and UKC.
> Being paid poorly doesn't excuse anything. Are we going to allow teachers to abuse their power? They are generally paid poorly.
> It also sounds like the TP&W is going into full coverup mode. If the TP&W doesn't issue an apology then I will have lost all respect for that department.


I don't believe I was making an excuse, merely pointing out that all you internet lawyer/experts should think about who you're dragging under the so called bus. 

Doing your job is not abuse of power merely because someone disagrees with it.


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

Also, as a former Oklahoma resident, I can say Ed is right on about their wildlife conservation department. They were great--helpful and a pleasure to work with. We did several of our events out at Ft. Gibson, and they were always willing to work with us and answered any questions--very supportive of what we were doing. Dr. Fred Martin in the the Tulsa club used to put on a steel shot clinic every summer and invite a representative from that department to come out and educate us on steel versus lead shot and also other wildlife issues. I wish TXPWD would look into some of Oklahoma's programs like that instead of"sicing" their forces on old folks like us-ha!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

BonMallari said:


> Have you tried calling the State Rep for Distirict 64, isnt she your Rep, if not I will call her,I always enjoy talking to her...


Nope, they have more pressing matters in Austin these days even though our Governor assured us during the election last fall that we had no budget problems.... 

In addition our club, one of the oldest in Texas, holds it's field trials in Oklahoma....O...K...L...A...H...O....M....A........OKLAHOMA, YEAH! so I/we have no dog in this fight


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Martha McCool said:


> Yes, the rules are in black and white, but evidently not that clear on all matters because we had some questions the game wardens could not answer for us on Saturday, questions that they answered incorrectly for us when we visited the Garland DPW office back in January to clarify some of these same issues then, and questions that several people on this forum are debating today. Again, we did not receive a citation. All of the birds there were pen-raised, period. Quite frankly, many responders to this thread don't know what they are talking about relating to details surrounding this incident, and are missing the main point of the matter.
> 
> The main point is that we feel that the resources of a state agency were used in a grossly inappropriate manner, and believe me, through our discussions with state legislators today, they have been made aware of exactly what we are talking about. Any spin put on the incident is very transparent. It is inappropriate for me to discuss further details on this forum. We feel law enforcement mis-used and out-of-control is dangerous. This department ought to be a friend of the hunt test and field trial community, not foe, in that we, in general, are a target population to promote hunting, fishing, and outdoor sports which keep them in jobs. We also support them when they are out doing their job properly and using agency resources appropriately. Also, they serve the people of Texas, not vice versa. They had every right to be there, and "investigate" in an appropriate manner. Absolutely no one involved argues that point except that the way that they came about to be there in the first place and the excessive "manpower" sent are questionable in our opinion. Also, it seems excessive that with three of them out there that it took so long to "investigate." As Chris eloquently stated, "It is amazing that on a bright, sunny day that at least two of the three weren't sent out to Lake Ray Hubbard to patrol the lake instead of "investigating" an event with a bunch of old folks."


I have to disagree although from a laymen's perspective I can understand your point of view and how you could not understand why 3 officers show up at a call. There can be a number of reasons to justify what you perceive as being grossly inappropriate, as a legitamate response.

More legislation isn't always the answer. Individual responsibility often is easier to obtain.

Best of luck with your campaign.


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

By the way, after the "investigation" on Saturday, we were allowed to use lead shot by the game wardens that day. They were fully aware that we were using lead shot when they left. We were told about four years ago that it was okay to use lead from a game warden we called regarding the matter. This was about the time we were starting the club. This past Sunday, due to no one really still not being able to answer our question regarding this matter, we used steel shot taking the most conservative course until someone can definitively answer this question. Just one of those "black and white" issues we were "investigated" for.


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

...Quite frankly, many responders to this thread don't know what they are talking about relating to details surrounding this incident...It is inappropriate for me to discuss further details on this forum.

Still missing the point--individual responsibility is exactly what we as a club are concerned about, although I think there is room for more common-sense legislation, too, that better serves the people of our state!


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## J Connolly (Aug 16, 2007)

Martha, please don't get me wrong. I don't think the rules make sense at all. Technically, if you are a trainer and you buy pen raised birds they should be banded when they are delivered. The grounds you shoot them have be licensed as private game preserve etc. I am going to work closely with my representative and try to see if I can get these rules changed so that our clubs have less burdensome regulations to put up with and the game wardens can use their resources in the area they are supposed to be involved in and that protecting our wildlife.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

The problem is some pric* reported this as something illegal going on at the HT. The wardens responded, sounds like over responded, but the bottom line the pric* should be located and beaten into submission!
Do you need volunteers?


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks. The grounds were licensed properly and signs with number posted. Paperwork done properly. Pen-raised birds. "Issues" minor, and like I said, game wardens were unsure about a lot of them themselves, thus no citation. Only issue really significant was not club's, but an individual volunteer from out-of-state, and that was unfortunate.


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

No vigilantes or talk like that, please, everything is in good hands and under control. This can be turned around for a positive impact for our sport. Thank you all for your support!


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

OK. I do it. Who is this bozo?


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

EdA said:


> Nope, they have more pressing matters in Austin these days even though our Governor assured us during the election last fall that we had no budget problems....
> 
> In addition our club, one of the oldest in Texas, holds it's field trials in Oklahoma....O...K...L...A...H...O....M....A........OKLAHOMA, YEAH! so I/we have no dog in this fight


Everything is better North of the Red


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## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

BonMallari said:


> Not that I condone what the TP&W, but anything in the state that involves the shooting of game birds, especially waterfowl, comes under the jurisdiction of the TP&W..it does not matter if it happens on private property..GW's have broader powers of jurisdiction than regular peace officers in the state
> 
> the only thing I can think of is that some animal rights group,filed a complaint and TP&W had no choice but to investigate..the fact that they only cited the OOS'er leads me to believe that they had no choice and didnt want to disrupt the process..it is unfortunate that it held up the process and disrupted the event...


C'mon Bonn, they don't have to be dicks about it and you know it. I support law enforcement as much as anybody (volunteer translator for the Sheriff's dept. for over 5 years all hours) . I also know about self important pricks who get into it for the power. It doesn't sound to me like they had no choice at all. In fact it sounds like they made a choice to disrupt the lawful activity of tax paying citizens.

This attitude of "Golly gee Mr. officer aren't you peachy!", leads to abuses of power. 

This will only hurt for a little while...
Just lay there and take it regards,


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

There's always at least two sides to the story. It sounds like the TPW acted as they must, but in an overzealous manner. Thank goodness cooler heads prevailed, and maybe a better collaboration between the Ret-community and TPW will result in the end? Calls for retribution will serve NO purpose, other than to give those who oppose us reason to label us as gun-toting kooks, and we don't need that!!! 

Martha, PM sent.


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## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

I find it funny that while we are having radio active rain falling today on the east coast no one says boo. But a few newbie DEM agents doing their job is means to call the president.

I would think we would have some of the biggest threads on the internet about this pollution and what effects it might have on our future hunts.

Priorities, just saying. Carry on.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

The Rockwall Retriever Club, specifically Chris and Martha McCool, have had to jump through so many hoops, dot every "i" and cross every "t" on a path through miles of bureaucratic red tape - just to work their butts off and provide an additional hunt test and field trial to the TX/OK circuit. First to form a club, then to get approval to host an event, then to put on the events - i sure Martha would hate to attempt to count the man-hours they have donated - for us. IMO we all have a dog in this fight.

There is no fame, glory, or money in hosting, judging, or working a field trial or hunt test and those volunteers should be the most valued and protected asset of our sport.

SM


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## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

Brad B said:


> I don't believe I was making an excuse, merely pointing out that *all you internet lawyer/experts* should think about who you're dragging under the so called bus.
> 
> Doing your job is not abuse of power merely because someone disagrees with it.


Your comments reveal the problem. You are a game warden. Do you not see it? 

How dare you common people question us? Bow down and receive our judgment. You are too stupid to have an opinion on how the law should be enforced. Don't question your betters.

Hope I never run into you in the field.

people like you are the reason we have a tea party.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Leddyman said:


> Your comments reveal the problem. You are a game warden. Do you not see it?
> 
> How dare you common people question us? Bow down and receive our judgment. You are too stupid to have an opinion on how the law should be enforced. Don't question your betters.
> 
> ...


Wow that's a lot to assume on your part from just some written words and considering you've never met me, I'd even go so far as to say your inflammatory and baseless comment is rude. 

No I am not a game warden. 

I always think that people should be able to question any oversight provided by the gov. Merely taking the time to think about what things might be like from someone elses perspective might better serve how we begin that line of questioning and guide how best to gring about the desired change as opposed to jumping to conclusions. 

Supporter of the Southeast Texas Tea Party regards.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

PackLeader said:


> I find it funny that while we are having radio active rain falling today on the east coast no one says boo. But a few newbie DEM agents doing their job is means to call the president.
> 
> I would think we would have some of the biggest threads on the internet about this pollution and what effects it might have on our future hunts.
> 
> Priorities, just saying. Carry on.


QFT. Google it.


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## Brandon Bromley (Dec 21, 2006)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> The Rockwall Retriever Club, specifically Chris and Martha McCool, have had to jump through so many hoops, dot every "i" and cross every "t" on a path through miles of bureaucratic red tape - just to work their butts off and provide an additional hunt test and field trial to the TX/OK circuit. First to form a club, then to get approval to host an event, then to put on the events - i sure Martha would hate to attempt to count the man-hours they have donated - for us. IMO we all have a dog in this fight.
> 
> There is no fame, glory, or money in hosting, judging, or working a field trial or hunt test and those volunteers should be the most valued and protected asset of our sport.
> 
> SM


Well said Shane. THANK YOU Chris and Martha!


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> The Rockwall Retriever Club, specifically Chris and Martha McCool, have had to jump through so many hoops, dot every "i" and cross every "t" on a path through miles of bureaucratic red tape - just to work their butts off and provide an additional hunt test and field trial to the TX/OK circuit. First to form a club, then to get approval to host an event, then to put on the events - i sure Martha would hate to attempt to count the man-hours they have donated - for us. IMO we all have a dog in this fight.
> 
> There is no fame, glory, or money in hosting, judging, or working a field trial or hunt test and those volunteers should be the most valued and protected asset of our sport.
> 
> SM


Thank you Shayne for bringing this up. It's hard to hold an event. Everyone tells you what when wrong, not enough tell you you had a great trial thanks for doing it.

Thanks for doing it Martha and Chris!


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> QFT. Google it.


Ok, I googled QFT. Now I know someone thinks something is true. Now pray tell what is this truth that is being quoted? I have seen nothing about radioactive rain on the east coast and what would that have to do with a dispute in TX? Am I looking for too much rationality here?


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## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

2tall said:


> Ok, I googled QFT. Now I know someone thinks something is true. Now pray tell what is this truth that is being quoted? I have seen nothing about radioactive rain on the east coast and what would that have to do with a dispute in TX? Am I looking for too much rationality here?


You googled QFT but didn't google "radioactive rain on the east coast".


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## Madluke (Dec 3, 2010)

This is just another example of government intrusion into our lives. Ten years ago if you would have told me just how invasive government would be on our freedom I would have said not in America. We are a free country. The fourth branch of government through regulation, fees, fines and enforcement along with judicial activism will be the downfall of true freedom in this country. We need to stand up and fight back or it's just another form of surrender. I was raised and taught that if you wanted respect then you should give respect which doesn't excuse these law enforcement officers from doing the same. IMO- this could have easily been resolved with a discussion of the Test chair and a simple review of procedures. The officers took this too far and used their power to intimidate rather than treat good people with good intentions respectfully.


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## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

Brad B said:


> Wow that's a lot to assume on your part from just some written words and considering you've never met me, I'd even go so far as to say your inflammatory and baseless comment is rude.
> 
> No I am not a game warden.
> 
> ...


You said this...



> And in closing I want you all to stop and remember that those officers make relativeliy little money putting thier lives on the line everyday. They do what they do becaus they felt a calling to it not because it's glamorous or a power trip. And just like in every job you or I do, there are parts of it they don't like but that's why it's called work and *sometimes we just have to do what needs to be done*.



We is a pronoun that usually includes the person using it in the action. You can see where you left the impression you are a game warden can you not?

Aside from that I stand by my point. Your posts suggest that the rest of us should shut up and take it. I vehemently disagree.

If I was rude you have my apologies.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Jim Bevere said:


> This is just another example of government intrusion into our lives. Ten years ago if you would have told me just how invasive government would be on our freedom I would have said not in America. We are a free country. The fourth branch of government through regulation, fees, fines and enforcement along with judicial activism will be the downfall of true freedom in this country. We need to stand up and fight back or it's just another form of surrender. I was raised and taught that if you wanted respect then you should give respect which doesn't excuse these law enforcement officers from doing the same. IMO- this could have easily been resolved with a discussion of the Test chair and a simple review of procedures. The officers took this too far and used their power to intimidate rather than treat good people with good intentions respectfully.


Explain to me how a discussion with the chairperson would have revealed that that the shooter was in possession of the proper license. I agree, big gov. is not in our advantage but to condem the officers actions with such a broad brush (and I'm sure you weren't there to witness), is just inflammatory and unwarranted. If you can't provide thoughtful and constructive input to the thread then maybe you should find someplace else to vent your political agenda.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Leddyman said:


> You said this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apology accepted Terry, thank you.

I can see where I made a grammar error. I should have stated that there are "parts of it WE don't like...". Generalizing that every job has parts of it that are not appealing to the individual doing the job. 

My point was, that in every job sometimes there are tough decisions to make. When it's a person in a position of judgment the person (officer, in this case) may not like it but he(she) has to make that choice and live with it. For example a FT judge that has to drop a friends dog that did good work but just didn't cut it. 

I never said anything about "common people" or negated the fact that gov. should be questioned. Nor did I say that we should "bow down and receive 'judgement'". And I never said anything about anyone being "stupid" either. 

As you can easily find out, I don't post a lot on this forum. I choose what I respond too and the words I use doing such very carefully. Had I meant for someone to think that I thought they were stupid and should bow down, I would have said exactly such. Not having met me, I can understand where you would try to read between the lines as we all are prone to do in this day and age. I assure you, I do my very best to compose a response that leaves little question as to my meanings or intentions.

I hope one day we can meet in the field. I think we'd have a great time!

Good luck with your dogs.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Who was the rat?


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Who was the rat?


Email sent


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Maybethisistosimplistic.

There is a group of people who believe in less government.

There is a group of people who believe in More.

If Ya want to avoid things like this, It seems to make sense to me to support the group that wants less government.

What group does the Govenor belong to?
What group does the state senator and representative belong to?

Are they being true to their constituency?

If not~~~ Well ~~~

Gooser


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## Martha McCool (Feb 11, 2008)

Exactly, Moose Gooser. We are passionate about less government, but do support our laws. In pursuing this matter, we are concerned with the big picture. 

You all please quit making threats and saying threatening things towards the person who precipitated this incident. That makes us all look like a bunch of stupid ******** and is no better that what he did. Rise above that, please. 

Sinner, I was the Hunt Test Secretary and Chris was on the committee. We support the entire sport, and for us, it is about more than winning or placing in field trials (though that's nice, too). We are proud of this club, and that it provides recreation for individuals who love Retrievers in our area. 

If you agree that excessive measures were taken for the wrong reason, then please support this issue by writing your legislators. See addresses and phone numbers above. 

We appreciate the nice comments and support above--ty again.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

My thought on the generality is that quality is more important than quantity. Quantity argument alone maybethisistosimplistic.

I suspect on this particular thing Law Enforcement got sold a bill of goods... it seems like the real culprit isn't Gov't...


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## Cowtown (Oct 3, 2009)

Keith Stroyan said:


> My thought on the generality is that quality is more important than quantity. Quantity argument alone maybethisistosimplistic.
> 
> I suspect on this particular thing Law Enforcement got sold a bill of goods... it seems like the real culprit isn't Gov't...


I don't know...they didn't have to bring the stormtroopers in full force with such a knee-jerk reaction.

That's not the Texas I was born and raised in period.

As someone who is brand new to this sport and will run my very first Junior test in early May, I can guarantee one thing I won't be doing with my time (and $) on the weekends if these type of actions by TP&W become commonplace at Hunt Tests across the State.

Of all states for something like this to happen, I can't believe it's here in Texas and we're actually putting up with this.


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

Cowtown said:


> I don't know...they didn't have to bring the stormtroopers in full force with such a knee-jerk reaction.
> 
> That's not the Texas I was born and raised in period.
> 
> ...


As a lifelong Texan, my guess is that this crap will be put to rest soon. Having said that, I didn't think that... Oh never mind. This isn't POTUS.


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## Penner (Dec 2, 2009)

Old thread, but we (hubs & I) were considering a move to Austin, TX as his work is there. Not so sure now, seems like a bunch of back east tree huggers in Texas now, sadly.
I too remember what Texas was 30-35 years ago, now I'm kinda afraid to live there (would be too much like Chicago where I left in 1992, as it was a h*llhole).
I'm in AZ now for 20 years, it was good back then, but then California tree huggers moved here in the last 10 years too & wrecked it.

All I can say tho, is that AZ game & fish is very friendly & helpful, none of what I read in this thread. Maybe AZ has a better game & fish dept, I dont know (just verbalizing my thoughts & moving dilemma). Thanks for reading.


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

WOW!! Glad this got bumped to the top. I had never read this thread nor heard of this incident. Looking at the dates, I'm guessing I was enroute home from Texas and not tuned in to media.

How about an update. Has there been resolution, either to this specific incident or the overall relationship between the principals? The physical well-being of the fink??

As an outsider, I have to agree with those who say the "enforcers" are sometimes put in positions of compromise ... following up on petty claims and complaints, etc ... and we should be careful who we hastily throw under the bus. Sounds like the real culprit is the jerk who put a couple hundred people through this just to satisfy a personal grudge. The "cops" may not always enjoy what they have to do in some situations. 

But THREE HOURS??? Come on!! A little overzealous, maybe???

I cannot believe that after an hour or so, their squad car still had air in the tires when they returned. :shock:

JS


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## gds512 (Oct 24, 2016)

Wow. This sounds unfortunate.


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

Didn't this happen about 10 years ago because of a disgruntled member of the club calling the game wardens (J. P.) but I can't imagine he's still disgruntled or around ?


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

Now that this has been bumped, I'd like to know the final denouement.


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## Bill Cummins Jr. (Aug 2, 2011)

Ken Barton said:


> Didn't this happen about 10 years ago because of a disgruntled member of the club calling the game wardens (J. P.) but I can't imagine he's still disgruntled or around ?


 I was not on RTF in 2011, but that is the correct date, I was there running in that flight. It was shut down for 3 hours. there was a ticket given to one gunner from out of state.
Game Wardens have a lot of authority, especially Feds.

Also, this has been stated before, but if you are shooting Waterfowl- pen raised or not, it must be shot with Steel Shot. Does not matter if it's on land or water. I had this researched by Fed Game Wardens when
steel first came out, they didn't even know the answer at first. but in 3 days I was answered by 2 different Rangers.

Bill


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

Oh this is a resurrected thread from years ago -great -I guess read the small print(date) Why bring this back up?


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