# Any real differences among choc/black/yellow labs



## Spoonbill (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi, I'm looking for a new pup this spring, considering a choc. pup. A trainer friend of mine warned me, that most of the problem dogs he gets are chocs. (maybe a relic of ppl buying only for color and selecting pups from any old line?).

My question is if I get a chocolate (or yellow for that matter) out of a line full of proven titled dogs, is there really any issue with trainability?

Please personal message me if you don't want to start WWIII over your opinions.

Thanks


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## rchurchi (May 15, 2009)

get a black


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## laker (Sep 12, 2008)

Choose your pup based on pedigree/quality breeding,,, not color.


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

There is nothing "better" or "worse" about any of the Labrador colors. However, bad breeding done to obtain pups with a particular color can produce bad dogs. This happens most often with chocolates since they have the smallest gene pool to draw on. However, if the pedigree is outstanding, color should be irrelevant. Ammo, the all time high point derby dog, shows just how right chocolate can be, as do FC Way-Da-Go Call of the Wild, who went to the 9th series in this year's National, and a number of other truly great chocolate Labs.


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## zeus3925 (Mar 27, 2008)

YardleyLabs said:


> There is nothing "better" or "worse" about any of the Labrador colors. However, bad breeding done to obtain pups with a particular color can produce bad dogs. This happens most often with chocolates since they have the smallest gene pool to draw on. However, if the pedigree is outstanding, color should be irrelevant. Ammo, the all time high point derby dog, shows just how right chocolate can be, as do FC Way-Da-Go Call of the Wild, who went to the 9th series in this year's National, and a number of other truly great chocolate Labs.


Not to mention, Chugach Hills Jazz's Rascal, Barracuda Blue and 'Cuda's Blue Ryder. 

Try: www.Browndogmafia.com


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

If you get a chocolate out of feild trial stock you will be more than pleased.


If you get one from a puppy mill or back yard breeder you could very well experience what your buddy is talking about. If you can only afford one from a back yard breeding than black is usually much more of a typical speciman of a labrador,,than the chocolates.

Pete


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

Do your homework - there are a lot of really good chocolates out there. Really the color is not important - it is in the breeding. The most important thing is what YOU do with the pup when you get it home. Good luck.


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## biggeorge50 (Mar 14, 2007)

I love the looks of a chocolate and have had several. I always went for top of the line breeding. Having said that, I believe that the chocolate gene has a wacky gene attached to it. Every chocolate I have had has been "different". Not necessarily a bad thing. I presently have two chessies that are also a little off center. The male has not been trained but has the most instinct and desire of any dog I have ever seen. That prompted me to buy a trained female that is a retrieving machine - has made more than one quarter mile (one way) retrieve on geese, but she is also a little strange. There has to be something with that brown color. That's my ridiculous opinion and I'm sticking to it.


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## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

OK I have my flame proof jacket on...

Actually science proved that their is a difference in a dogs ability to scent...based on skin pigment color. Generally the darker the color the better the nose.

Ever wonder why a black car collects more dust? Same concept...
Before I get flamed I know this is probably not enough to give them a great advantage but I thought it was interesting none the less. 

Get the black one shhh...


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

PackLeader said:


> OK I have my flame proof jacket on...
> 
> Actually science proved that their is a difference in a dogs ability to scent...based on skin pigment color. Generally the darker the color the better the nose.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this.
Also whats the concept??


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

> Ever wonder why a black car collects more dust? Same concept




I thought it was because it showed up better on black

Pete


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

Get a chocolate or yellow, ANYONE can own a black one......


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## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

Why does the black car also get hotter than the white car but black noses are less likely to sunburn? Yes nose pigment also effects the UV rays. hmmm


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> Actually science proved that their is a difference in a dogs ability to scent...based on skin pigment color. Generally the darker the color the better the nose.


Totally not buying that for these well bred dogs with great pedigrees. I had a chocolate whose nose baled him out on tough retired guns when most of the field missed the bird but also got him in trouble when some feathers from the flyer landed on the way to the retired. He had an outstanding nose-was out of two blacks, and one was an NAFC. It's about the genes.


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## Bill Watson (Jul 13, 2005)

Packleader, Where is that "scientific evidence" of dogs with darker coats having better noses and that black cars get more dust on them. My Chocolate dogs noses get them in more trouble when I'm trying to run a blind and my white van has so much dust on it Cleo refuses to ride in it with me.

There are so many dogs out there now that have great talent for hunting, testing and trialing that it is hard to say which color is the best, and that being said by a died in the wool Chocolate breeder. Gotta run to go eat now, Bill
________
Live Sex


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## torg (Feb 21, 2005)

Which chocolates males are EIC/CNM clear, CERF, good/excellent hips, normal elbows, titled?


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

While,as with any random occurrence anything can happen If you play the odds you will not only get a black, but it will be a male.
That it will be a lab is a no brainer 
john


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

> Why does the black car also get hotter than the white car but black noses are less likely to sunburn? Yes nose pigment also effects the UV rays. hmmm


 I cant argue with that

Pete


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## Terri (May 28, 2008)

On the lighter side:
Chocolate Labradors always look clean.

Terri


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

As I understand it Chocolate is resessive so in general they are a minority. In general it is harder to find well breed Chocolates. Over time this will change as more good lines are developed. Barring that there is no difference.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

PackLeader said:


> OK I have my flame proof jacket on...
> 
> Actually science proved that their is a difference in a dogs ability to scent...based on skin pigment color. Generally the darker the color the better the nose.
> 
> ...


black cars don't collect more dust, they just show it because black absorbs light and lighter cars, just as dirty, reflect light. Plus the contrast of mud/salt/whatever on a dark versus light surface.

I would like to see the scientific evidence, too, just out of curiosity. As I'm sure you know, scenting is also better with folds of skin, saliva production, etc.... I'm trying to figure out how the pigment would affect scenting, though.


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## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

I first heard this from a friend of mine. These guys are into detection dogs not hunting dogs. 

They looked at this during the development of the super sniffer program. They used some kind of device to see the particle intake at the dogs nose and many other things. To tell you the truth I cant even remember if they said the black dog had better scent capability or better scent recognition. 

I wouldn't worry about it.. You will never see or notice the difference between a black or choc labs scent ability unless you wear nerd glasses and study them under a microscope. I will try to find the study on this again.. 

Anyway they talk briefly about it here.

Sustentacular Cells - These cells are present where the olfactory cells exist. They
appear to have a part in the perception of scent. Some practitioners believe with
darker pigmentation do better at scent perception. The dark color of sustentacular
cells may support this belief, but for Man’s purposes most dog’s olfactory
capacity meets our needs. The sustentacular cells’ exact role in not completely
understood.


http://www.uspcak9.com/training/scent.pdf


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## aabraham (Dec 18, 2004)

I would be willing to bet there are less chocolate washout than any of the other colors.


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## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

"I would be willing to bet there are less chocolate washout than any of the other colors." 

You guys are funny man. .Scent capability plays very little role in that kind of work..


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

NEVER trust a dog or a Woman that has yeller eyes!!

Apply as necessary!

Gooser


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## Cleo Watson (Jun 28, 2006)

Gooser I'm applying OK? - I love those guys who knock our chocolates because they are the product of those 'inferior' recessive genes and you look over at their sweet wives who are so blonde or red headed and have blue eyed. Just depends on which one they choose i guess.


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## Fowlfeller1100 (Mar 30, 2009)

Very obvious and real differences; I can tell immedietly just by lookin' at em.


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Cleo Watson said:


> Gooser I'm applying OK? - I love those guys who knock our chocolates because they are the product of those 'inferior' recessive genes and you look over at their sweet wives who are so blonde or red headed and have blue eyed. Just depends on which one they choose i guess.


forgive them for they not know what they are saying.

I am a strong proponent for breedings from National Filalist breedings. The only choc we had able to become a FC was the poduct of two black National Amateur Finalist.The male was a 1973 and the dam finished in 1971.


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

For the average hunter / dog owner , the only difference in color depends on what color hair you want in your butter dish .


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Richard Halstead said:


> I am a strong proponent for breedings from National Filalist breedings. The only choc we had able to become a FC was the poduct of two black National Amateur Finalist.The male was a 1973 and the dam finished in 1971.


Lots of wisdom in this statement if one can read between the lines.

If your interest is Hunt Test, color doesn't matter because the dogs are not competing head to head where it is almost impossible to beat a naturally talented balck Lab. The work a HT dog is asked to do is much easier than in FT's. Field Trials, I would stick with black. For every Ammo or very rare FC Chocolate out there, there are hundreds that have been washed out in FT competition. A higher washout rate than black, just my observation.

The odds of getting a special dog, one with real natural talent is much higher with black, yellow second and chocolate last.

I also think that if one is looking for a yellow or chocolate that at least one of the breeding pair is black and better if that recessive color come from two black dogs in the breeding pair.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

I wonder if someone was able to actually do the math -- percentage of black dogs that attempt trials versus those that obtain their FC and the same with choc and yellow. I wonder if choc partly gets a bad rap because the odds of any of them doing well in all-age trials, although POSSIBLY the same as other colors, generates little to few dogs.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Maybe Shayne has that data.

Just about any Derby will have a couple of choclates. Fewer in Qualifying and chocolates are almost non-exsistant in All Age.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

Franco said:


> Maybe Shayne has that data.
> 
> Just about any Derby will have a couple of choclates. Fewer in Qualifying and chocolates are almost non-exsistant in All Age.


But how many are even given the opportunity to try? Personally, I believe there are some differences in general. BUT I think the pre-existing prejudice in the trial world doesn't give them a chance either as it appears there are few people willing to give them a shot. 

Basically, my conclusion is that you can't use field trials as a gauge to tell whether well-bred chocolates are on the same playing field as blacks. I think even if there WERE more "nice" ones there are still too many people that will stick with blacks.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Kristie Wilder said:


> But how many are even given the opportunity to try? Personally, I believe there are some differences in general. BUT I think the pre-existing prejudice in the trial world doesn't give them a chance either as it appears there are few people willing to give them a shot.
> 
> Basically, my conclusion is that you can't use field trials as a gauge to tell whether well-bred chocolates are on the same playing field as blacks. I think even if there WERE more "nice" ones there are still too many people that will stick with blacks.


Why do you suppose that is? Afterall, an outstanding FT Chocolate's return on investment would far exceed that of a black in terms of stud fees because they would be so unique. A lot of folks have purchased choco pups from the best breedings they could find in a quest for a big choco stud yet, you can count the active FC's on half of one hand.


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## Rich Baker (Oct 10, 2009)

John Kelder said:


> For the average hunter / dog owner , the only difference in color depends on what color hair you want in your butter dish .


Thats brilliant


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

Franco said:


> Why do you suppose that is? Afterall, an outstanding FT Chocolate's return on investment would far exceed that of a black in terms of stud fees because they would be so unique. A lot of folks have purchased choco pups from the best breedings they could find in a quest for a big choco stud yet, you can count the active FC's on half of one hand.


Because it goes back further, IMO and best GUESS (only), than when people actually started focusing on breeding better chocolates.

Even if there are some that are capable, they will never end up in the "right" and "best" hands because most probably wouldn't give them a shot. I don't have a problem with it, whatever the reason is. 

I just think it's more of a statistics thing than that there are few to no chocolates out there that could be competitive. 

Key words are "my opinion" and "I think"...  Seriously. I may be totally wrong, it's just my opinion.

-K


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

In *MY OPINION*,,, *I think* you cant trust a Dog or Woman with yeller eyes!



Gooser

P.S. And Yes Mrs Cleo!! I gots one a them red headed Kids my ownself!!

He Looked like an orangatang when born!!! Covered with red hair!! 
Green eyed!! too!! I think it was that night when the alien come a knockin!!

Gooser


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## scott spalding (Aug 27, 2005)

Franco said:


> Why do you suppose that is? Afterall, an outstanding FT Chocolate's return on investment would far exceed that of a black in terms of stud fees because they would be so unique. A lot of folks have purchased choco pups from the best breedings they could find in a quest for a big choco stud yet, you can count the active FC's on half of one hand.[/
> 
> The big time Field Trial Amatures and long time participants are not running Chocolates. The majority of good chocolate breedings are going to hunting homes or other venues. Two puppies from Drakes litter went to field trial homes and one is a FC and the other is one point from his AFC pretty good odds I would say something like 100%. I can count on one hand the number of chocolate labs running in the Pacific Northwest trial circuit. Our trainer John henninger has three of them two are Field champions and one is QAA I know of one other from the Seatle area that became Qaa this summer. Pretty good rate of success concidering they are the only ones being ran. The fact is Chocolate dogs seldom make it to Field trial homes with a proven track record of success. We will never no if there is a difference.
> ________
> CHEAP UTG PISTOL POUCH VELCRO CLOSE


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

How can you say that "skin pigmentation" has an effect? Last time I checked, my black dog has white skin. What color skin does a choco have?


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## Losthwy (May 3, 2004)

The gene that produce coat color in dogs, in seems, do more than affect color only.

The gene produces a type of protein previously thought to play an important role in the immune system. However, the new findings suggest that these proteins, known as *defensins*, may be involved in regulating other important processes in the body, including pigmentation, energy balance, and production of glucocorticoid hormones.
"This study has uncovered a new level of regulation in the body. We don't know yet, but it could have implications for understanding genetic factors involved in obesity, diabetes, and related diseases," said Glenn Millhauser, professor of chemistry and biochemistry at the University of California, Santa Cruz. 
Millhauser and three graduate students in his laboratory--Matthew Nix, Darren Thompson, and Bin Yu--are coauthors of the paper describing the new findings, published online November 2 in the journal _Science_. The study was led by a team of geneticists at Stanford University.
The determination of coat color in dogs has long been a mystery. While most mammals share the same genetic mechanism to determine coat color, dogs seemed to be an exception. The Stanford researchers, led by geneticist Greg Barsh, identified a new gene in dogs that acts in addition to the two main coat-color genes recognized in other mammals. To their surprise, the new gene makes a beta-defensin protein belonging to the large and variable family of proteins called *defensins,* thought to play a role in fighting infections.
To find out how the beta-defensin operates in the determination of coat color, the researchers needed purified samples of the active protein. But defensins are notoriously difficult to work with in the laboratory. So Barsh turned to Millhauser, a longtime collaborator, to produce a supply of properly structured beta-defensin for laboratory studies. 
The researchers found that the protein engages the melanocortin pathway, a circuit of molecular interactions that controls the type of melanin and amount of cortisol produced by the body. Barsh and Millhauser have been interested in this pathway because it determines not only skin and hair color, but also *stress adaptation* and weight regulation.
"This gives us a new way of viewing the processes controlled by the melanocortin system. *We suspect that* *defensins will turn out to have a role in all aspects of melanocortin signalling, not just coat color," Millhauser said. *
The discovery of a new participant in this pathway opens up additional areas for drug research, said the article's co-first author, Sophie Candille, a former graduate student in Barsh's lab. 
Candille visited five Bay Area dog shows over six months to gather hundreds of samples by gently swabbing the inside of the dogs' cheeks with a brush. The project began a few years ago with boxers and Great Danes of different colors. Candille identified a region of the genome that differed between them. Then she moved on to 36 other breeds, ranging from Large Munsterlanders to miniature schnauzers.
"Looking within one breed rapidly identifies the general region, but looking at different breeds allows you to home in on the gene that's responsible," Barsh said.
Candille's work narrowed the genome region to a gene that makes a beta-defensin protein. One version of the beta-defensin gene produces yellow dogs, a mutant version of the gene produces black. Co-first author Chris Kaelin went on to prove it. When he inserted the dog gene in transgenic mice, their fur grew out black.
But the finding's relevance extends far beyond fur color. The beta-defensin gene is a member of the unusually large and variable defensin family of genes. A human can have between 40 and 50 different defensin genes; dogs can have up to 46.
Though researchers had assumed the defensin proteins were microbe fighters, Barsh isn’t so sure. "We really have very little evidence that defensins do much in terms of defending," he said. *"The genetic approach is more agnostic, and suggests that defensins have additional or alternative functions outside the immune system."*
Barsh and Millhauser's immediate plans are to learn more about what human defensins do. A longer-term application is to discover whether defensins will serve as templates for drugs.
Other collaborators in the study were former Stanford graduate student Julie Kerns, who verified that typical mammalian coat color genetics were not operative in dogs; mouse geneticist Bruce Cattanach, who also breeds boxers and helped recruit many samples; and Sheila Schmutz, a dog geneticist at the University of Saskatchewan and a Large Munsterlander breeder.
Source: University of California, Santa Cruz


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

aabraham said:


> I would be willing to bet there are less chocolate washout than any of the other colors.


How much are we betting?


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

I'd bet Alex is right because most anybody putting a choc with a pro is not putting it there with the idea of ever washing it out--or else they're training it themselves over the dog's lifetime because it *is* chocolate and subject to all the past prejudices (and performance charts).

Me, if I'm wanting chocolate, it's ice cream and/or 










"the other" chocolate.

MG


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## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

Spoonbill said:


> Hi, I'm looking for a new pup this spring, considering a choc. pup. A trainer friend of mine warned me, that most of the problem dogs he gets are chocs. (maybe a relic of ppl buying only for color and selecting pups from any old line?).
> 
> My question is if I get a chocolate (or yellow for that matter) out of a line full of proven titled dogs, is there really any issue with trainability?
> 
> ...


Get brown they are better dogs!


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## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

Lost highway is a wealth of knowledge...but get a brown dog...They are loaded with the smater than black or yellow dog genes!


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

I think there’s a lot to be said for getting the dog that you like to look at. Nobody else can tell you what tickles your fancy. While those who are only obsessed w/ maximizing their chances to win rosettes can back up their recommendations to buy a black one w/ statistics, if you really like the look of the chocolates, you will probably spend more time w/ one and I suspect that will make more difference in the long run.


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## gman0046 (May 7, 2009)

Our latest Lab is a yellow female, went with yellow because of her breeding. So far it's been an excellent choice. She's now 13 months old, no health issues and a real intelligent dog with a strong desire to retrieve and easy to train.
That said, I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for a black female which will be our next Lab if I can talk my wife into having another dog.


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## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

Doggin said:


> I think there’s a lot to be said for getting the dog that you like to look at. Nobody else can tell you what tickles your fancy. While those who are only obsessed w/ maximizing their chances to win rosettes can back up their recommendations to buy a black one w/ statistics, if you really like the look of the chocolates, you will probably spend more time w/ one and I suspect that will make more difference in the long run.



Ouch!

I really believe that color makes no difference...I think that brown dogs have just recently come on to the HT/FT games is why black dogs outnumber brown dogs in rosettes....that being said....get a brown one.


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## boo8mer (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm getting a chocolate female in a few weeks. I got chocolate to see if I could determine any difference. I've owned all three colors and haven't noticed anything I can't attribute to pedigree. She's out of Pirate x Abbie (two blacks) so hopefully she'll end up being good.


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## Matthew Hambright (Dec 6, 2009)

My MOMma said that Black labs are the best because they were the original lab! LOL!!! Brown ones are the dumbest she says. She also knew absolutely nothing about labs! Get the best puppy money can buy! Dont be prejudice, get a black one!


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## Waterdogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Chesapeake Bay Retrievers what about them are they not the best retrievers out their?


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## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

I think the brown dogs are smarter but the black ones have more drive. My brown dog tends to over think things to much. Shes to smart for her own good.


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

I am probably a little bias but I believe it is not the color but rather the breeding. If you breed nothing to nothing odds are you won't have a very good dog. If you breed talent to talent you have increased the odds of producing nice dogs regardless of color. But then what do I know, I have only owned chocolates and I wouldn't have it any other way. And they have done rather well in the hunt test games I have played.

Janet


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Hahahaha I am a reformed choco dog disliker. I have seen several that do very well lately. Their owners tell me that they had to place all their mirrors up high so their dogs can't see they are chocolate//////// they think they are BLACK LOL .....Truly there are all good dogs regardless which color you prefer. I have seen Labs of all colors that will take my breath away. I think that Ammo kind of set the standard pretty high for the next bunch of Chocolate Derby dogs and a big step for Blacks and Yellows.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

I don't care what color the dog is as long as it can do the work in a pleasing manner........






............. and it's black.


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## TN_LAB (Jul 26, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aabraham 
I would be willing to bet there are less chocolate washout than any of the other colors. 

How much are we betting?



mjh345 said:


> How much are we betting?


I suck at betting, but I too would think there are a lot more black washouts than any other color . Notice he didn't say anything about % washouts.


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## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

Yes what about Ammo? There's a pretty strong brown dog argument.


But seriously any dog color will do...as long as it's brown.


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## rabersin (Dec 2, 2009)

Get a Black, just look at the record, black dominate both field trials and hunt tests. Can you get a good chocolate or yellow, of course you can. If you are a person that is going to buy one dog and hope for the best. Buy a black, you have a much higher probablility of obtaining a good dog. But make sure you are getting a dog with all the proper clearances from parents with proven records that have quality pedigrees.


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## Kevinismybrother (Aug 3, 2009)

As Henry Ford used to say "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black"


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## Purpledawg (Jul 16, 2006)

I've owned all 3 colors of Labradors all at the same time, and not a one of them, seem to care the color of the other was. Leave it to man to be the segregator


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

Any real differences among choc/black/yellow labs ?

yes.........enough said.


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## Fowlfeller1100 (Mar 30, 2009)

I bet if you prefer color X and you have a dog of color Y your more likely to say "oh he is exhibiting this bad behavior because he is color X". And vice versa of course. Perception matters.


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## rabersin (Dec 2, 2009)

I always love it when a question like this comes up. Everyone has an opinion, and we all try to base our opinions on fact. It is like the arguement over which truck is better, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, or even Toyota. But the truth is Black labs dominate both field trials and hunt tests. The odds of getting a great Chocolate, or yellow are just not as great as getting a great black. If you could buy dozens of dogs, yes you might come up with a winning Chocolate. But you don't want to buy more than one dog. Keep the odds in your favor, buy a black from excellent breeding, with all the clearances. And by the way, Chevys are best (that should get some comments).


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## DMA (Jan 9, 2008)

torg said:


> Which chocolates males are EIC/CNM clear, CERF, good/excellent hips, normal elbows, titled?


The only living Chocolate Male FC that I know of is Fc Way-Da-Go Call of the Wild (pups coming soon). Rick Arnold also qualified both his chocolates all age. And Joan at Rattlinridge is doing well with her Chocolate male Willie 3 trials and a Jam and RJ in the Q.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Howard N said:


> I don't care what color the dog is as long as it can do the work in a pleasing manner........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't you have a young yellow one too?


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## boo8mer (Jun 22, 2009)

rabersin said:


> I always love it when a question like this comes up. Everyone has an opinion, and we all try to base our opinions on fact. It is like the arguement over which truck is better, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, or even Toyota. But the truth is Black labs dominate both field trials and hunt tests. The odds of getting a great Chocolate, or yellow are just not as great as getting a great black. If you could buy dozens of dogs, yes you might come up with a winning Chocolate. But you don't want to buy more than one dog. Keep the odds in your favor, buy a black from excellent breeding, with all the clearances. And by the way, Chevys are best (that should get some comments).




Ever heard of the law of large numbers?


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> Don't you have a young yellow one too?


No, I sold her to a hunting home last August.


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## Bayou Magic (Feb 7, 2004)

Is there any way to add a BS filter to RTF?

fp


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2010)

Spoonbill said:


> Hi, I'm looking for a new pup this spring, considering a choc. pup. A trainer friend of mine warned me, that most of the problem dogs he gets are chocs. (maybe a relic of ppl buying only for color and selecting pups from any old line?).
> 
> My question is if I get a chocolate (or yellow for that matter) out of a line full of proven titled dogs, is there really any issue with trainability?
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone has asked what you plan to do with this dog yet...

What are your plans for this dog?

Meat dog? I'm not going to imply that chocolates are necessarily at a disadvantage in FT's and HT's because I simply don't know, but if this is going to be primarily or exclusively your hunting partner and family companion then I'm certain that color doesn't matter. Chocolates have picked up untold mountains of dead ducks for thousands and thousands of hunters. They work just fine.


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## huntinlabs (Aug 4, 2009)

i bought a black out of a proven litter and yes he is an awsome dog but he is choc. factored so say when i get grhrch or mh on him and my wife gets sh or mh on her yellow also has choc. in it and we breed them and they throw 5b and 5 choc are some of you are saying that the blacks have a better chance than the choc? because they are black?!!??


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Howard N said:


> No, I sold her to a hunting home last August.


My bad. Disregard then.


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## caglatz (Aug 21, 2006)

aabraham said:


> I would be willing to bet there are less chocolate washout than any of the other colors.


Outstanding, first time someone put it into perspective. Got to love them chocolates !


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## 2 Fowl (Mar 6, 2008)

laker said:


> Choose your pup based on pedigree/quality breeding,,, not color.


I agree.....

2Fowl


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## kindakinky (Dec 11, 2008)

Thought some interested in this thread might be interested in this article I found a couple of days ago regarding a long time lab breeder's (Mansergh Labs) take on the issue:

http://surrylabradors.blogspot.com/2007/04/interesting-article-by-old-breeder.html

J. Marti


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## 2 Fowl (Mar 6, 2008)

Alot has changed in the last 30 years.....interesting read though.

2Fowl


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## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

I have a WHITE FORD F150 235000 trouble free miles and still ticking! The license plate reads "BLKDGIN" is there some science here!


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