# My new Dual Ch prospect



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

This is Flirt ,bred by me. My goal is to make the next Dual Ch.... what do you think?  Click on pic to enlarge

Am. GCH Can/UKC CH POPLAR FOREST PLAY IT AGAIN SAM MH MHU UD RE WCX ( BLK ) 
Hips: LR-171246E32M-VPI EXCELLENT
Elbows: LR-EL37120M32-VPI
Eyes: LR-51543 CLEAR
CNM: LR-CNM59/45M-VPI (clear)
EIC: LR-EIC362/42M-VPI (normal)
CH SUNDANCE'S PADDY'S IRISH CREAM JH SH MH CD ( YLW ) 
Hips: LR-89243F25M FAIR

AM.CH CAN.CH. Ch WC JOLLY CAPTAIN GIBSON CD JH ( YLW ) 
Hips: OFA24G
Elbows: OFEL67
WATERLEAS LONESOME DOVE ANNA ( YLW ) 
Hips: LR-63052E30F

CH PEMBROKE BLACK MIST POPLAR FOREST MH ( BLK ) 
Hips: LR-132109G37F-PI
Elbows: LR-EL18862F26-PI
Eyes: LR-30430

CH Graemoor Sample at Amberlyn ( YLW )CH Lobuff's Onyx Alexandra ( BLK ) 
Hips: LR-74583G24F


Briarglen's Running On Faith JH ( YLW ) 
PennHip: DI-R .38 DI-L .40
Elbows: Normal

FC AFC Fish River's Out Of The Park ( YLW ) 
Hips: LR-179517E55M-VPI 
Elbows: LR-EL42108M55-VPI
Eyes: LR-56309
EIC: LR-EIC421/55M-VPI

FC-AFC Esprit's Power Play ( BLK ) 
Hips: LR-137291G47M-Pi
Eyes: LR-26893/2000-6
CNM: Clear
EIC: LR-EIC307/109M-VPI (Clear)
Waterstrike Maple Creek Blitz QAA ( BLK ) 
Hips: OFA24G - GOOD
Eyes: LR-25153

CH Briarglen's Celtic Caper MH ( YLW )
CH Lockbriar Journey O' Briarglen JH ( UNKN )CH Briarglen's Laurier JH ( UNKN )


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## FishnShoot (May 14, 2010)

I hope you're successful!! Lofty goal to be sure, but it looks like she has the right stuff behind her.


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## Erik Nilsson (Jan 16, 2011)

Awww! Good luck!


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Cute. Good luck!


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## Daren Galloway (Jun 28, 2012)

Is this a DIY project or are you going to seek professional help for either or both ventures? Which will you pursue first?


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

we will see. How many FC or AFC have you produced or QAA?


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

You GO girl!!!


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Good luck! You'll need it. The odds of producing a FC and/or AFC with a show based pedigree are remote at best. There's a first time for everything, though.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Climbing Mount Everest might be a more realistic goal but success never comes without effort, good luck on winning the lottery.


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## 480/277 (Jun 5, 2014)

Most successful people ,tried and did what others saw as impossible...


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## Irishwhistler (Sep 8, 2013)

Best of luck.

IRISHWHISTLER


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## Lesa Cozens Dauphin (Sep 13, 2005)

Good luck. Looks like a nice pup!

lesa c


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

My plan is to do field first at least through transition and see what I have, might be nothing, might be something. Her structure as a puppy, is the only thing I can go by at this point, as to whether she will get the show half .If she looks like this as a 2,3 or 4 yr old, she should be able to finish in the ring.Thanks to all who get it !! You have to have the dream to even come close. Mike M you apparently don't get it...








How about "SIGHT TO SEA"S PLAY THE FIELD" her call name is already Flirt...


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Good Luck!!! She's a beauty!


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## careljo (Sep 15, 2014)

I hope you're successful. I really don't like the extremes on either side of labs and hopefully you can find judges that agree that working style labs belong in the show ring. I'm currently pursuing MH title with my CH Standard Poodle. We aren't eligible to fun field trials so we can use MH as our goal for an all-around talented and beautiful dog. I love dogs with titles at both ends!


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

This is exactly what all breeders of the Labrador need to be striving for... the extremes on both sides are not looking like Labs anymore, and the moderate Labrador was a beautiful specimen. 

Best of luck.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

anybody , even if you don't do Facebook , should be able to view this 
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202964842227597&l=5420773630077980977


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## FishnShoot (May 14, 2010)

Bridget Bodine said:


> anybody , even if you don't do Facebook , should be able to view this
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202964842227597&l=5420773630077980977


She looks great!! Plenty of get up and go.


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## zeus3925 (Mar 27, 2008)

Great looking dog!!!!! Best of luck in your quest!


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## weathered (Mar 17, 2011)

I think you will find you have lots of cheerleaders. I sure hope it can be done again. And with several "show" line dogs I've seen, and the one I own, it won't be from lack of effort or "go" on the dogs' part if the right lines are chosen. (Emphasis on the right lines.) Marking ability for those 400 yard marks would be my bigger worry. 

Good luck!


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Bridget, I wish you the best of luck with this. I think it's great and would love to read of your accomplishments with her!

Chris


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Sorry I do get it. I know how hard it is to get an FC/AFC let alone a CH in labs. I run field trials and occassionally show my chessies which doesn't compare to the entries of labs in the show ring. And I have heard comments from lab show people about the field lab not promising. I hate to be that negative person and I hope you tell me someday "I told you so."


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Well Mike, the good news so far is , the structure is there as a puppy. THe second good news is _*if*_ she has some talent ,I am capable of getting her a solid ,young dog start , before handing her off to a trial trainer. The show dog stuff I can do some of my self and some handing off, but that can happen at 4 + years old.
LOL the bad news is I am not rolling in disposable income... maybe I will be in three years when she might be ready, come on big money!! 
and YES I hope to say I told you so too!! If not with her, a dog of my breeding. I am almost 53 , I figure I have about 30 years to get it done...Gotta have a dream for it to come true. This is my dream.


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## Pupknuckle (Aug 15, 2008)

Good luck Bridget.


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## FishnShoot (May 14, 2010)

Bridget Bodine said:


> Well Mike, the good news so far is , the structure is there as a puppy. THe second good news is _*if*_ she has some talent ,I am capable of getting her a solid ,young dog start , before handing her off to a trial trainer. The show dog stuff I can do some of my self and some handing off, but that can happen at 4 + years old.
> LOL the bad news is I am not rolling in disposable income... maybe I will be in three years when she might be ready, come on big money!!
> and YES I hope to say I told you so too!! If not with her, a dog of my breeding. I am almost 53 , I figure I have about 30 years to get it done...Gotta have a dream for it to come true. This is my dream.


I wish more people shared this dream!!!!!


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

I wish some FC/AFC would just show up at a conformation show and show those people what's coming. Here's one and there will be others.


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

Good luck! What a cute pup!

I don't know anyone that ever looked back and said "Boy, I really wish I didn't waste all that time training my dog... I could have been having way more fun doing other stuff!"


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Bridget, I'm looking forward to hearing about the journey. 

Color me country, but I can't help but thinking...


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Get the FC-AFC then worry about the shows. Structure and looks hold up, no need to get a CH on a 1yr. who isn't finished growing. I actually think that there are dogs still out there that could do it; but the owners of FC-AFC dogs are more worried about NFC-NAFC dogs than putting time into dog shows. And those that go for show first, pretty much ruin any field potential, their young dogs might have. The shear research required to find the judges and campaign enough to get a CH just isn't worth it to most, especially when one could be running-winning FTs. Always good to have a goal, but better have some thick skin as well . Field and Show lab people venomously dislike each other and your talking about skirting both worlds, setting yourself up for attack from both sides. Still some seem to thrive on abuse, so I wish you luck .


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Get the FC-AFC then worry about the shows. Structure and looks hold up, no need to get a CH on a 1yr. who isn't finished growing. I actually think that there are dogs still out there that could do it; but the owners of FC-AFC dogs are more worried about NFC-NAFC dogs than putting time into dog shows. And those that go for show first, pretty much ruin any field potential, their young dogs might have. The shear research required to find the judges and campaign enough to get a CH just isn't worth it to most, especially when one could be running-winning FTs. Always good to have a goal, but better have some thick skin as well . Field and Show lab people venomously dislike each other and your talking about skirting both worlds, setting yourself up for attack from both sides. Still some seem to thrive on abuse, so I wish you luck .


 I have one foot in both worlds and am fully aware ...I do have friends in both worlds and people that think I am doing the show dog a disservice and there is no need to cross show field lines. I also have people who truly appreciate what my Grady son can do , but just would not want to own him because of his look. Does not bother me a bit, I just smile and say I understand. 
I said above that she would do field first and show at 3,4 maybe five years old, maybe even 6 who know's. ( I do know that by 4 years old, I will know if she has the talent and trainability to be an FC or AFC though)
I am not a newbie to either the field or the show world. I have been in dogs professionally for 28 years, starting by working for top professional handlers in the show world and from there I spent time with several hunt test trainers, before starting my own train the trainer program. I have taught several people how to train their own dogs to the MH level and get their titles and have many SH and JH dogs out there too. MY go to trainer is Pat Burns, who has a pretty good record...;-)
So I am not blind going toward my goal and I do know a little....it may never happen , but it definitely won't unless I try.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Phew! Lotta different genes in a bench champion. Lotta different genes in a field champion. Phew!!


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## T. Mac (Feb 2, 2004)

Doesn't look like a Chessie to me  

Good luck in your adventure.


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Well, I say good luck. Screw both sides and go for your dream. Others may say you're going for the impossible, but I say life is short and we're supposed to have fun while we're here.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

suepuff said:


> I say life is short and we're supposed to have fun while we're here.


My father had several favorite jokes one of which is applicable.

I was walking down the street and noticed a man on the sidewalk hitting himself in the head with a hammer. I approached him and asked hey man what are you doing? He said it should be obvious, I am hitting myself in the head with this hammer. I then asked him why and he replied because it feels so good when I stop.


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

EdA said:


> My father had several favorite jokes one of which is applicable.
> 
> I was walking down the street and noticed a man on the sidewalk hitting himself in the head with a hammer. I approached him and asked hey man what are you doing? He said it should be obvious, I am hitting myself in the head with this hammer. I then asked him why and he replied because it feels so good when I stop.


     .....


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

EdA said:


> My father had several favorite jokes one of which is applicable.
> 
> I was walking down the street and noticed a man on the sidewalk hitting himself in the head with a hammer. I approached him and asked hey man what are you doing? He said it should be obvious, I am hitting myself in the head with this hammer. I then asked him why and he replied because it feels so good when I stop.


LOL Ed!! If you ever see me at a trial, walking away from the first series after picking up Flirt , tell me this joke again!


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## MunsterBraccoLab (Apr 20, 2014)

NAVHDA dogs achieve this all the time. It can be done. Brittany people have an especially good track record.

Other upland dogs, not so much. Have you seen what an "English Pointer" looks like nowadays and the bite on some of them?

Years back, the thought of breeding a dog with major flaws, no matter how talented, was considered a crime.

Now because of trials, people do it with glee. Blame the trials.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

EdA said:


> My father had several favorite jokes one of which is applicable.
> 
> I was walking down the street and noticed a man on the sidewalk hitting himself in the head with a hammer. I approached him and asked hey man what are you doing? He said it should be obvious, I am hitting myself in the head with this hammer. I then asked him why and he replied because it feels so good when I stop.


My dad's version of this was the guy was hitting his head against a brick wall...


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

MunsterBraccoLab said:


> NAVHDA dogs achieve this all the time. It can be done. Brittany people have an especially good track record.
> 
> Other upland dogs, not so much. Have you seen what an "English Pointer" looks like nowadays and the bite on some of them?
> 
> ...


DISAGREE re trials.

When I look at many field trial dogs today, they appear similar to the CH, DUAL and FC of the early 1900's as illustrated in books like those by Howe and Warwick. When I look at today's CH I see a dog that looks like it was crossed with a miniature Kodiak Bear! 

Achieving a Dual Labrador cannot be compared to NAVHDA dogs, pointers or even Chessies(which can still do it!). Everybody should read Judy Rasmusons GRCA article on Dual Champions. http://www.chessieinfo.net/user/image/browndualchrasmuson.pdf

Here's an excerpt re Labs.

_In Labradors there have been 37 Dual Champions
__including two that have won National Retriever Championships_
_as well. The last Labrador Dual Champion_
_was in 1984. This was _
_Dual CH-AFC Hiwood Shadow._
_I’m not aware of any Champion Labrador that has had_
_Open All-Age points since then, or, conversely, of any_
_FC Labrador that has had bench points. However there_
_have been 51 CH-MH Labradors.

This from the most popular dog in AKC!_

TO BB:

Please distinguish between dreams and goals. Goals need to have specific measurable progress, a time-line, be realistic given resources and more -see SMART for goals. Knowing the demands for FC, I'd be inclined to start with that likelihood and select from the right look lines. In the past Hiwood was a starting point but as indicated above but the last was 30 years ago. And don't think many haven't tried --for example Kerrybrook. Have a look at Dual Warpath Macho. Was never bred much because trialers though pedigree weak (did have some FT blood though) and benchers thought blood would set their breeding program back!!!

Cheers


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

MunsterBraccoLab said:


> NAVHDA dogs achieve this all the time. It can be done. Brittany people have an especially good track record.
> 
> Other upland dogs, not so much. Have you seen what an "English Pointer" looks like nowadays and the bite on some of them?
> 
> ...


Not so much apples to oranges; more of an apples to battleships comparison


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

To many of you following the National blog by Retriever News. Have a look at the photo of the 4 dogs on their header. I can't remember which dog is which but these are some Freehaven dogs including FC and Duals and out of Dual Grangemead Precocious. These look quite like a lot of todays trial dogs but nothing like todays bench champions-so who has gone astray?


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> To many of you following the National blog by Retriever News. Have a look at the photo of the 4 dogs on their header. I can't remember which dog is which but these are some Freehaven dogs including FC and Duals and out of Dual Grangemead Precocious. These look quite like a lot of todays trial dogs but nothing like todays bench champions-so who has gone astray?


Dennis, Al McKean had a dog (Hiwood lines?) that he sold to Blair Down - probably as good looking a dog 
as I have seen in years. Also could perform, I believe Rorem had the dog on his truck. I was sorry to see 
Al sell the dog as I would have liked to try a pup from him.


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## whistle_wings (Dec 2, 2013)

Awesome goal, best of luck to you. Please keep us updated on your progress


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Marvin

You are probably thinking about FC AFC FTCH AFTCH El Nino. Nino was a great performer and a real nice dog. He was all field trial lines. he didn't look like today's bench champions but he sure was a good looking dog.


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> Marvin
> 
> You are probably thinking about FC AFC FTCH AFTCH El Nino. Nino was a great performer and a real nice dog. He was all field trial lines. he didn't look like today's bench champions but he sure was a good looking dog.


Thank You! That's the dog!!!


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

RetrieversONLINE;1275554[FONT=Garamond-Light said:


> TO BB:
> 
> Please distinguish between dreams and goals. Goals need to have specific measurable progress, a time-line, be realistic given resources and more -see SMART for goals. Knowing the demands for FC, I'd be inclined to start with that likelihood and select from the right look lines. In the past Hiwood was a starting point but as indicated above but the last was 30 years ago. And don't think many haven't tried --for example Kerrybrook. Have a look at Dual Warpath Macho. Was never bred much because trialers though pedigree weak (did have some FT blood though) and benchers thought blood would set their breeding program back!!!
> 
> ...


 Yes Dennis, Thank You . MY short term goal is QAA/CH. When we get there we will take the next step.
I have several different lines here. One being a VERY trainable , EXCELLENT marking Grady son ,Crosby, ( I have been told by several trial people he has what it takes) and he has nice bone, and nice angles. His head is coming on as he matures.
I have a bitch from a QAA/CH sire , I have a full sister to Crosby from the second litter , I have the mother of this pup , and I have a 3/4 show bred boy (CH/MH sired). So I hope I have some good stuff to blend there.... Time will tell and the first thing I need to do is get through basics!


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Bridget Bodine said:


> Yes Dennis, Thank You . MY short term goal is QAA/CH. When we get there we will take the next step.
> I have several different lines here. One being a VERY trainable , EXCELLENT marking Grady son ,Crosby, ( I have been told by several trial people he has what it takes) and he has nice bone, and nice angles. His head is coming on as he matures.
> I have a bitch from a QAA/CH sire , I have a full sister to Crosby from the second litter , I have the mother of this pup , and I have a 3/4 show bred boy (CH/MH sired). So I hope I have some good stuff to blend there.... Time will tell and the first thing I need to do is get through basics!
> 
> View attachment 20772


Crosby is a looker for sure! I have one who looks just like him but not until he was 8!!! But he is out of a CNFC CNAFC FC AFC! 

It seems that you are focusing a bit more on the CH side. As I said I think the FC side is the bigger challenge! After that some tell me you can pick your judges!!

It would be interesting to see stats on wannabes in Field trials that made FC and wannabes in Bench that made CH!

The Best!


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Dennis If I mix and match the lines I have, there will be line breeding on Code Blue with CH/MH mixed in... We shall see....Thanks for the good wishes , I know I will need them! !!


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

I entered my puppy who is also named Flirt in the AKC show last month and she took Best In Show Puppy. Doesn't mean anything other than we are going the right way with our breeding program. You never know if you don't try! Good luck to you!


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Where is "El Nino" now?


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Billie said:


> Where is "El Nino" now?


Having been born in '92, he is wherever all good dogs go! And I don't think he was bred much at all!


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

El Nino ??


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> Having been born in '92, he is wherever all good dogs go! And I don't think he was bred much at all!


I didnt realize when he was brought up that it was 'really' past! Sounds like he was a nice guy, would have liked to see him. Bridget, scroll up a bit someone mentioned this dog earlier.


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVl10kK39cI#t=275




This lady makes a good case about the Field Lab today suffering joint injuries and lack of water resistance coat.. yet she does not feel a Duel Champion can be produced any longer... 

If many breeders started to look more into conformation, not just about showing dogs, but build a better Labrador I do think it can be done over time... same goes for a Show breeder, many produce smaller dogs they sell as pets, but are very athletic, but are not kept because Large is what Show judges look for... sadly it got this way, because the Labradors Mary Roslin Williams depicted in her books were duel champions... 

Hoping one day those with the most say in the breed realize the two extremes are no longer the Labrador Retriever.


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

I'd be worried about more than joint issues working these in the duck blind. Click to enlarge.


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## .44 magnum (Feb 20, 2014)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> I'd be worried about more than joint issues working these in the duck blind. Click to enlarge.
> 
> 
> View attachment 20783
> View attachment 20784


That is what the OP is up against when it comes to judging the breed...in Show's... Fat rules because substance is important to that judge.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

.44 magnum said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch? This lady makes a good case...............


 Yeah. Start at 2:47 and stop at 3:10.

Dead on.

And keep in mind that a Retriever, is what it does. Not what it looks like.


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

.44 magnum said:


> That is what the OP is up against when it comes to judging the breed...in Show's... Fat rules because substance is important to that judge.


Yes that is part of the hurdle that BB faces. 

However, the judge that year described the importance of Labradors being a working dog that could tackle mud and water and tough-going. When these dogs were later criticized for being fat there was a big uproar that if you could feel them they would be in working condition. It's was just their coat that made them look big!!! 

Even if these dogs were thin do you think they would be athletic? Do you think they would have a "fast, determined departure"? I am just not buying it that this is what the standard says either in UK or AKC/CKC!


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Over and above a fast determined departure, could they remember where two retired birds are?


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Sheesh.....see my avatar. This thread is about Bridget. I really wish her luck. Regardless, we all like what we do and our own dogs. 

Do you know what I'm proudest of? I just sent two dogs for service dog training. At 9 weeks of age they've started the children's reading program. God willing they'll make it through the first year with the puppy raiser, healthy and able to go on to year two and then placement. 

I have a goal of CH/MH with the mother of these puppies and I'm close. But you know what? The smile on the kids face last week made all the recent things insignificant. 

Good luck Bridget. I am looking forward to reading about your journey. Enjoy the road. That's what it's all about. 

Sue Puff


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

PLEASE DON"T start the fat dog argument here, I will delete the whole thread.... I do not want to beat up anybody's dog, . I just hope I can finish mine. But you can bet mine won't be fat...

John You ARE correct. Unfortunately with the show dogs , when the marks start getting OUT there, is when they tend to give up. Some have enough drive and go for MH but when you start throwing 300 yd stuff they give in. THAT is the challenge, enough drive and desire to overcome distance and have the memory to overcome distance several times. And then of course the structure , coat and tail to finish


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Bridget Bodine said:


> ....Unfortunately with the show dogs , when the marks start getting OUT there, is when they tend to give up. Some have enough drive and go for MH but when you start throwing 300 yd stuff they give in. .....


 Then why, please tell, would you want one?

I seriously do not get the logic (illogic?) behind such a quest.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Copterdoc you are a genius!! THAT is why I am not breeding just show dogs , I am hoping to come up with the right blend of FIELD and show .


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## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

I train with a dog almost everyday who's pedigree is half breed dog and half field trial breeding.....has no issues with distance or water...the owner finished her first qualifying this year with him...her dog keeps up with all of our "big" dogs in training....Randy


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I know that dog well Randy...  IN FACT Brigg's sire, is the sire of the puppy in this thread!!!


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## RetrieversONLINE (Nov 24, 2005)

Randy Bohn said:


> I train with a dog almost everyday who's pedigree is half breed dog and half field trial breeding.....has no issues with distance or water...the owner finished her first qualifying this year with him...her dog keeps up with all of our "big" dogs in training....Randy


Randy.

Yes indeed, I have seen a dozen of these. They were all VERY nice dogs and I often thought they were ideal for the majority of Labrador owners. However, none became either a FC or CH because although they were dual (actually multi-) purpose, they excelled in neither type of field trial or bench competition. 

I thought a few could have been with the right trainer and the right shower. We do have a dog in Canada that is a triple champion -CH, AFTCH and Obedience! Owned, handled, trained by Amateurs!!!


There is hope. I love Labradors but I hate that such a split has occurred! Obviously, I am on the original working dog side!! I love those old photos of the Banchory dogs and such!! But I doubt those duals could CH or FC today.


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## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

Well I hope your puppy is like Briggs, like him alot...hoping at least an AFC for Lynn and Briggs....not bad for her first trial dog and half a breed dog....Randy


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

randy bohn said:


> well i hope your puppy is like briggs, like him alot...hoping at least an afc for lynn and briggs....not bad for her first trial dog and half a breed dog....randy


that would be awesome!!!! and if it happens I will be proud to say I helped Lynn get him started for the first two years!


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Randy Bohn said:


> Well I hope your puppy is like Briggs, like him alot...hoping at least an AFC for Lynn and Briggs....not bad for her first trial dog and half a breed dog....Randy


If the dog proves he has the talent and can win these goals are obtainable. However my question is how much of the show side, is actually reflected in these dogs, are they structural-typey enough to win in the conformation events. If you are at a FT and you saw the dog without looking at a pedigree; what screams show cross? The thing I've noticed about such crosses is the dog usually seems to take more after one side or the other and even if you have a good co-mingling, the owners seem to gravitate toward one event or the other. At any particular field event you can pick out a few competitors that have better structure than others. Sometimes they are crosses, most of the time they are just structural field stock. Most every dog at a FT is in excellent shape, it's required of any top performer, thus most of the time if your stood show crosses and structural field stock side by side, you wouldn't know which is which unless you pulled out paperwork. The sad thing is that it is highly unlikely that even the most structural of these dogs (show cross or not) will ever see a conformation ring, nor ever be evaluated on structure. The Hunt tests have offered the show side a compromise in a CH-MH, the field side doesn't have a conformation test that's akin; if they do it's not something anyone takes seriously. I give the show side a bit more credit in this because some at least do try to pursue-prove a dual dog. Yet I'm not sure why a DC would have to come from a cross, there are structural field stock we see them at every trial. However most of us have lost such touch with desirable conformation (preferred-basic conformation; not exaggeration seen in the ring ) that we couldn't even do a basic evaluation on what any particular dogs good conformational points, nor where they might be lacking. Heck most can't even get a field dog to Stand long enough to take a picture let alone contemplate Stacking anything aside from bumpers.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> The Hunt tests have offered the show side a compromise in a CH-MH, the field side doesn't have a conformation test that's akin; if they do it's not something anyone takes seriously. .


I'm really at a loss at what you are saying here. What is the CH-MH compromise title you say HT's offer??
Care to explain?


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## T.Bond (Jul 7, 2014)

good luck with getting grand champion status on your dog. it should be a fun journy.


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## T.Bond (Jul 7, 2014)

RetrieversONLINE said:


> Randy.
> 
> Yes indeed, I have seen a dozen of these. They were all VERY nice dogs and I often thought they were ideal for the majority of Labrador owners. However, none became either a FC or CH because although they were dual (actually multi-) purpose, they excelled in neither type of field trial or bench competition.
> 
> ...


this is like breeding a milk cow to a fighting bull..


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

T.Bond said:


> this is like breeding a milk cow to a fighting bull..


That was a productive comment... what kind of dog is that in your avatar, btw?


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## laurelwood (Dec 1, 2011)

Wishing you the best of luck on achieving your goal!

I might suggest that you might want to might want to try getting her show Ch out of the way first for several different reasons. If her structure is nice enough judges might be more willing to put up a puppy that is not as umm, how should I put this, 'substantial' as other adult dogs in the ring. Also there is always the chance of her sustaining an injury, I have a dog I couldn't finish because he had an injury that left him serviceably sound (he's running Master tests) but not quite sound enough to be shown.


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## T.Bond (Jul 7, 2014)

windycanyon said:


> That was a productive comment... what kind of dog is that in your avatar, btw?


its when cows accidental breed to a beef bull they are nt worth as much because it wont make as much cream and it wont have as good beef. It is like what Retriever Online said not as good at one thing as the other. Its a saying people make


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## T.Bond (Jul 7, 2014)

windycanyon said:


> That was a productive comment... what kind of dog is that in your avatar, btw?


mine had parents one side with papers I said before. just mixed up breeding like some people say letting two chocolates breed each other makes weird heads and pink noses.


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## SPEED (Jul 12, 2013)

I am looking forward to hearing about your journey. I agree with everyone - it is hard but not impossible. I think it may be easier to get a CH with the right field trial dog though. I disagree with people who think it cannot be done. You have to have the right dog, with the right person, with the right training... a lot has to go well for it to happen.

I bred my show girl to Poplar Ridge Play It Again Sam (your dogs sire) and got some really talented in the field show dogs - one is a CH MH and one is an HRCH MH and youngest dog to make it to the 2nd or 3rd series of the ESPN super dog trials. I still think the trial game would be tough but not impossible for them. One boy I have - the poor guy has a lot of talent in spite of me. I got his senior just training weekends in the summer.

There are a couple field trial dogs out there that could possibly produce a duel dog with the right girl. I bred my girl sired by FC AFC Crow River's Malarky's Cougar and her mother was out of MD Houston to FC AFC Yellowstone's TNT Explosion and got a boy who finished his senior by 14 months with only three months of training and running masters at 15 months. I got his international show champion title on him in one weekend. I woman who's mother has had one of the top show Lab kennels for over 50 years and she herself was a professional handler saw him and told me he could finish his CH in AKC. I laughed and told her - you do know he is 100% field trial don't you? She said he knew it because she looked him up when she saw him. Unfortunately at 2 he had one marginal hip so I neutered him and sold him as a gundog.

One guy who had one of my Cougar/AC pups was offended when he was running a derby and a group of guys made snide remarks about his dog being a show dog as he passed them to go to the line - he wasn't a show dog but he looked the part. He was a full brother to FC AFC CFC CNAFC He's Czar Nicholas. Nick was handsome but Nick did not have the looks to show but I think he could have produced it if bred to the right dog. His sister is the one who produced the dog I mentioned above when I bred her to Nitro and she did not look like a show dog either.

I think it would be easier digging for the right field trial dog to show. It would be a long tough search but not impossible. I am glad people have not given up the ghost for the next dual. I am looking forward to seeing another dual. I am looking forward to seeing your progress - I would be so excited for you if you do it and so glad people have not given up.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

T.Bond said:


> mine had parents one side with papers I said before. just mixed up breeding like some people say letting two chocolates breed each other makes weird heads and pink noses.


Thank you for your explanation about the cows and such-- surely it shows just how knowledgeable you are about breeding Labradors.


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## T.Bond (Jul 7, 2014)

windycanyon said:


> Thank you for your explanation about the cows and such-- surely it shows just how knowledgeable you are about breeding Labradors.


it s like calling someone a red head step child. not trying to be mean but more like in a funny way. you never herd like breeding a milk cow to a fighting bull? is sarcastic joking. sorry did not think to offend.


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

T.Bond said:


> mine had parents one side with papers I said before. just mixed up breeding like some people say letting two chocolates breed each other makes weird heads and pink noses.


.... What?


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