# Chesapeake problems



## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

I have a 5 month old cbr male. The dog is great with the kids and has impressed me so far. The problem is when he is fed if you touch him he growls and I'm not talking a playful growl I'm talking showing teeth I want to kill growl. I just had my hand under his chest petting him and he snapped and bit me. I can feed him from my hand and he's fine. Not real sure what to do any tips would be great.


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## FieldLab (Aug 5, 2011)

Gets some info on being a pack leader asap tons of info on the web
You need to fix this, he thinks he is in charge it will only get worse that kind of behavior
Is totally unacceptable


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## swamprat II (Feb 22, 2004)

Not trying to be a smarta$$ but I would simply feed him in his kennel or crate and just leave him alone while he's eating and teach your kids to do the same thing. If you'd rather take a hands on approach. Feed him then when he growls grab him by the scruff of his neck pick him up give him a good shake and command no in a low growling voice and then take the food away. Before you feed him again make him sit. Once he is sitting patiently then put the bowl down but don't let him charge right in. Make him sit and wait til he calms down. then let him eat.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

I do feed him in his kennel and I feel like I've established alpha male with him...its like he's starving I feed him 3 times a day he's so agrressive with his food...I read somewhere that takin his food from him wouldn't help but I'm going to give it a try


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Control while preparing and placing the feed pan in front of the dog, meaning sit and do not move until I say so. Then release the dog (I say "chow time") and let it eat unmolested. I'm not a big fan of playing with the dog's food while its eating. If you put a steak down in front of me and then after I eat a few bites you start playing take away with it, you're likely to get a fork in the back of your hand. 

If kids are an issue, feed the dog in either a crate or a room away from the kids, and teach the kids not to bother the dog while it's eating.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Normally after we work/play in the evening and its time to go inside I get his food from the garage and we walk around to his kennel I have him sit and stay outside of it and ill go in and fill his bowl come out tell him kennel and in he goes to eat...but this weekend we aren't home...I've noticed before he did it but thought he was over but I guess not


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

All dogs, especially CBRs, can be possessive and want to assert their dominance. IMHO this is what this about and it needs to be dealt with quick and at a young age.
Like above make him sit and only eat when you allow it. Feed him on a leash, stand close and directly over him, about half through make him heel away from the food. Once away have him sit then return to the food with you petting him(leash is still on, any aggression pull away from food, and while petting him allow him to return to the food).
After a few sessions they usually get the message but I still re-check them forever about 2x/week, petting them as they eat or even making them heel way or fetch upon command to convey who is in charge.

He is not being mean. He is just testing you!

Tim


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Thanks Tim and Sharon. Just went to freshen his water cause its gettin warm down here and he doesn't do it while he is drinking but I guess its different with food.


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## TollerLover (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't mess with their food much. I do make them sit and wait until I release them to eat. The only messing I usually do is sometimes going over and adding something special to what they are eating. Then they think it's a good thing when I come near the food. But I would teach your kids to just leave him alone when eating....


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

sorry to hear you are having a problem. not only would i keep my kids away while he was eating, i would keep him away while my kids are eating. be careful and good luck.

pm pete, he can likely help you.


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## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Tim Carrion said:


> All dogs, especially CBRs, can be possessive and want to assert their dominance. IMHO this is what this about and it needs to be dealt with quick and at a young age.
> Like above make him sit and only eat when you allow it. Feed him on a leash, stand close and directly over him, about half through make him heel away from the food. Once away have him sit then return to the food with you petting him(leash is still on, any aggression pull away from food, and while petting him allow him to return to the food).
> After a few sessions they usually get the message but I still re-check them forever about 2x/week, petting them as they eat or even making them heel way or fetch upon command to convey who is in charge.
> 
> ...


This process is the way I would and have handled it with dogs who were resource guarding in the past (although I confess that I do not prescribe to the dominance theory). It is all well and good to make sure the dog is somewhere secure to eat so that there is no chance of a problem but what about other situations- the time that your little kid drops their sandwhich and the dog and kid both go for it- always better to make sure it is dealt with via training, imo, and you can still manage meal times. The key as Tim said is to remove the dog from the food when there is an issue (not the food from the dog). That makes a difference. I actually remove them if I even get so much as a hairy eyeball- have them preform some known cue (sit, down, whatever) to earn the right to be released back to the food. When a dog is fine I do not mess with their meals other than to make sure they don't eat until released but if the dog has a problem like this I think it is better to deal with it before it gets out of control.


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## wckrishet (Mar 26, 2013)

Sounds like your dog is trying to train you not to mess with him while
he is eating. Be careful he may well start training your kids next what is acceptable 
.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Ask Pete! If you can PM he can help. And yes, his name on here is just "Pete"


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## boyetthunter (Jul 21, 2009)

Try elevating food bowl some. When dogs "control" or dominate something they stand directly over it. Having the bowl e elevated slightly doesnt allow him to stand directly over the food and might prevent him from thinking that he "owns" the food therefore being less food aggressive. Definitely not the only thing to do but good to have in the arsenal.


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## tim bonnema (Jul 3, 2010)

I like Sharons reply. One thing you need to know is this is a CBR. You will be tested throughout his life as the leader. I would not test the dog by putting hands near his food but I also would not tolerate him growling if I am near. If one of mine growls I will take the food and only return it when he shows that I am in charge. 

If your dog seems hungry and you are feeding a appropriate amount of food, I would give him some green beans to help fill him up.


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

You've gotten some good advice here. I have a female CBR who was simply awful about guarding her food when she was little. Yes, little, as in 10 weeks old and attacking like a wolverine when I tried to put up the bone I gave her to chew for a limited time, gulping food any time we walked near her feeding area, growling and baring her teeth just as you described. Although I also subscribe to the idea that you shouldn't mess with a dog while it's eating, I thought she was going way over the line. After the first time took me by surprise, I made sure she had a collar and leash on before giving any food or treats. Refusal to surrender toys or bones without a fight got her a good shake and a stern "no" as well as loss of the object. It wasn't long before we could tell her "leave it" and "here" and pull her to us (and away from the food) with the leash. Although she no longer gulps her food, I still wouldn't put my hand in her bowl: if I have to add something, or she's eating from the wrong dish, I call her by name away from the food and then pick up the bowl. If she has a bone that I need to take, I tell her to "give" just as i would a duck, but if I just reached out and tried to take it casually I'm pretty sure I would get the stink-eye and a stiff posture: I always get her attention first and command her to give it to me before putting my hand in the way. She's never going to be the easy-going schmoozer that our male CBR is, it's just the way she is. She is, however, getting better all the time.


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## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

We've had Chessies for over 40 years and I always just feed them in a kennel, crate or on the porch etc. I don't fuss with their food - just let them eat - no issues. You might want to check out Nothing In Life Is Free to be sure you are really playing the alpha role. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Lots of good info here from some very nice people who know chessies........listen to them!!!! Jim


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice. I agree it needs to be handled now and I will break him of it.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

2 words- dimensioned lumber.

Trying to help out in the worst way regards

Bubba


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Sharon Potter said:


> ....... I'm not a big fan of playing with the dog's food while its eating. If you put a steak down in front of me and then after I eat a few bites you start playing take away with it, you're likely to get a fork in the back of your hand. ........


^^^^^x2 ^^^^^

try it with me and your buds be callin' you "Stumpy".
set the bowl down, let um eat, pick it back up.


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

Tim's pretty much pegged how it would go if the pup were mine. The best way I've found to apply "dominance" reminders should my Chessies present what appears a challenge has been through simple OB sessions, rather than confrontation.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Chuck, you really need NOT to approach the problem as "I am going to break him of it". If you try to break a chessie, you are in for a world of trouble. He will not necessarily turn vicious, but you will lose his respect and desire to perform for you. I own only one chessie, and we have had our issues, but all have been resolved by good obedience standards and being a leader, not a warden! These dogs ARE different than labs and fairness is very important. They are not as forgiving as the labs.


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## chesaka (Dec 13, 2007)

Sharon Potter said:


> Control while preparing and placing the feed pan in front of the dog, meaning sit and do not move until I say so. Then release the dog (I say "chow time") and let it eat unmolested. I'm not a big fan of playing with the dog's food while its eating. If you put a steak down in front of me and then after I eat a few bites you start playing take away with it, you're likely to get a fork in the back of your hand.
> 
> If kids are an issue, feed the dog in either a crate or a room away from the kids, and teach the kids not to bother the dog while it's eating.


this is VERY GOOD advice. i've had chessies for a long time and i can take their food, bones, etc. without a problem. but i don't push the dominance issue around food, especially if they are being well-mannered elsewhere. i let them eat their food in their individual kennels and don't mess with them.


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## AllAroundLab (Dec 21, 2010)

TollerLover said:


> I don't mess with their food much. I do make them sit and wait until I release them to eat. The only messing I usually do is sometimes going over and adding something special to what they are eating. Then they think it's a good thing when I come near the food. But I would teach your kids to just leave him alone when eating....


Yes, how about walking up and adding something even better to the meal, like a slice of hot dog or cube of chicken. Here's my two cents... Don't go up to the point of growling, stop at the distance the dog is still comfortable with your presence and toss the goody next to or into the bowl, gradually over day or weeks move closer. As the pup starts to understand the whole approach and treat thing, think up some command or use its name, praise when pup disengages from food to look at you, then put the treat in. With toys, do "trades" so you don't take a toy without something good in return. Why not at least try it for a few weeks before going straight to "breaking." 

Standing over the dog, scruff shakes, taking away the food, just adds to the anxiety, you need this puppy to learn that you are not trying to steal his food away forever, do those things and you are teaching him the opposite, that he has good reason to worry every moment there is food around. Even my Labs would start gulping their kibble if I was always taking it away from them, as it is I can even ask them for their rawhide chews and they will offer them up to be put away until next time because they know I'll not steal them. If you also do enough obedience training the dog will eventually be able release an object on command without protest, but you don't start that training with such a high value item as a meal, you start with the boring old forcing buck, or whatever. You may be able to physically dominate this dog, odds are good your kids can't, so you need some tools that are not dependent on who's bigger and meaner.

Instead of taking any internet advice, how about reading this booklet by a dog behaviorist on this very topic, http://www.amazon.com/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm probably wrong so take it for me being me. 

If my 5 month old pup of any breed, growled and bit me for rubbing it's tummy while it ate, picking up a 1/2 eaten bowl, or patting his head while he ate....

The pup would find itself 5 feet off the ground being pinned to the wall by it's cheeks while I talked to it and then, tossed across the room about as far as I could throw it.

Next time it will be a bone, chew toy, or other object that's his. And he probably respects you more then the kids or their friends.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Rick Hall said:


> Tim's pretty much pegged how it would go if the pup were mine. The best way I've found to apply "dominance" reminders should my Chessies present what appears a challenge has been through simple OB sessions, rather than confrontation.


Reading back up to Rick's post - this makes the most sense to me. But then again - makes sense in most all cases dog too.


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

I've been regretting the "my Chessies" part since posting it, because I've seen more potential issues from my English setters and Brittanys. And I'm guessing much of that stemmed from most of them coming earlier in my life when I had less experience bringing pups on. An awful lot of "Chesapeake things" are really just dogs being dogs.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Rick Hall said:


> I've been regretting the "my Chessies" part since posting it, because I've seen more potential issues from my English setters and Brittanys. And I'm guessing much of that stemmed from most of them coming earlier in my life when I had less experience bringing pups on. An awful lot of "Chesapeake things" are really just dogs being dogs.


Affirming your logic only had to deal with it once, maybe 30 years ago. Partner was a mature, 3 year old German Shepherd rescue taken from a bank while his owner robbed it but was apprehended. Bonded with the dog about 90 days. Ordered my super large double cheese pizza one night, set it on the table and went to the basement to shovel a bit more coal into the furnace.

In the meantime - Partner decided he'd drag the pizza off into the corner and eat it for me. It was indeed 1/2 gone when I came back upstairs. My "NO" was met with a growl. My approach to the dog to save at least 1/2 my pizza was met with a snarl. 

Pretty soon it wasn't about the food to me. And fairly soon after it wasn't about the food to Partner. 

No dogs were hurt in the making of this lesson. It did however stick.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

HNTFSH said:


> I'm probably wrong so take it for me being me.
> 
> If my 5 month old pup of any breed, growled and bit me for rubbing it's tummy while it ate, picking up a 1/2 eaten bowl, or patting his head while he ate....
> 
> ...


This was what I wanted to do but you can't with a chessie their memories are to good and I thinks thatd cost me in the long run...he's already getting better over the past days just heeling him away from his food while eating. Thanks you everyone


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chuckfu said:


> This was what I wanted to do but you can't with a chessie their memories are to good and I thinks thatd cost me in the long run...he's already getting better over the past days just heeling him away from his food while eating. Thanks you everyone


Good luck Chuck. Whatever works. Growl is one thing, bite another.


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## Matt Duncan (Feb 21, 2011)

I am no expert but pretty familiar with the breed and don't believe this is as much a "chessie issue" as just a young dog that thinks he's higher in the pecking order than he actually is.. Yes a bite is a big deal but this is also a 5 month puppy that's still very much learning his place. Like mentioned by some very knowledgable folks already OB is the probably the best tool you have right now. But moving forward young chessies need structure in nearly everything like feeding and just regular around the house stuff. They are workers and do well when made to feel like they are doing a job in as much activity as you can kind of a "this is whats expected so heres your paycheck" attitude. Be firm but fair and nothing is free. Getting physical with a 5 mo puppy is going to get you nowhere quick. The dog isn't going have any positive benefit from the interaction, respect is something you need from him and fear isn't going to get you there. Fight with a chessie and you will regret it gain his respect and trust and you'll make a good team.


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## SpinRetriever (Dec 25, 2012)

This dog probably shouldn't be in a family situation. I hate saying this, I really do. A bite from an adult Chessie is one hell of a bite. 

Seeing this behavior from such a young pup is not good and maybe its correctable by you, but you won't always be around.

Rarely if ever does the temperament improve enough by training to be reliable in a family environment.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

It's been my experience that food aggression is often displayed not by a dominant dog, but by one that was lower in the order in its litter, and had to work harder for food. They can carry that need to fight for and defend their food into adulthood.

And anybody that thinks throwing a dog across a room as far as they can is a good way to correct, shouldn't be allowed to own one, and may want to consider anger management classes.


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## SpinRetriever (Dec 25, 2012)

Sharon Potter said:


> It's been my experience that food aggression is often displayed not by a dominant dog, but by one that was lower in the order in its litter, and had to work harder for food. They can carry that need to fight for and defend their food into adulthood.
> 
> And anybody that thinks throwing a dog across a room as far as they can is a good way to correct, shouldn't be allowed to own one, and may want to consider anger management classes.


This i totally with agree with. The best course is to place the dog and start over.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Sharon Potter said:


> .....And anybody that thinks throwing a dog across a room as far as they can is a good way to correct, shouldn't be allowed to own one, and may want to consider anger management classes.



x2, stupid !


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

If my pup bit at me in anger, they would be on there back in a hart beet and if after words they did not preform for me I would find them a new home. Throwing them sound like I would be angry and that's not good ether. when dealing with large breed dogs the force has to equal or surpass the behavior that you are trying to change. No PC here.


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## Joel907 (Aug 17, 2012)

It's a Chessie you can get him to stop growling at you but your kids, wife, buddy's he is still going to be possessive to strangers. Best teach kids not to mess with him while his eating and put him in his kennel at feed time. I have a young CBR take him fishing with me he is cool at the ramp to strangers but once he get in the boat and one the water he shows his teeth to any one that tries to get close to us on the water. His boat possessive.


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

Joel907 said:


> It's a Chessie you can get him to stop growling at you but your kids, wife, buddy's he is still going to be possessive to strangers. Best teach kids not to mess with him while his eating and put him in his kennel at feed time. I have a young CBR take him fishing with me he is cool at the ramp to strangers but once he get in the boat and one the water he shows his teeth to any one that tries to get close to us on the water. His boat possessive.


I looks like no ones gong to take your boat.

I have a female Springer that I always take with me when I am training in the refuges, she will not let anyone near the truck I guess she is truck possessive , but when I tell her to knock it off, her tail starts wagging a hundred time a minute.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Sharon Potter said:


> It's been my experience that food aggression is often displayed not by a dominant dog, but by one that was lower in the order in its litter, and had to work harder for food. They can carry that need to fight for and defend their food into adulthood.
> 
> And anybody that thinks throwing a dog across a room as far as they can is a good way to correct, shouldn't be allowed to own one, and may want to consider anger management classes.


Has nothing to do with anger but everything to do with changing the game and getting the dog off its feet.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Chuckfu said:


> This was what I wanted to do but you can't with a chessie their memories are to good and I thinks thatd cost me in the long run...he's already getting better over the past days just heeling him away from his food while eating. Thanks you everyone


Glad you are seeing improvement already, and especially glad that you understand that venting anger on the puppy is destructive. A lot of the advice you are getting here is good. Some is scary.

I've owned a few Chesapeakes, but only one who growled and snapped over food when he was a puppy. I just trained him and developed our relationship, and he got over it as he grew, to the point where I could reach into his pan and grab a handful of food, if I wanted to. Using a leash to remove the dog from the food sounds like a sensible technique, but I never had to use it.

Amy Dahl


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

HNTFSH said:


> Has nothing to do with anger but everything to do with changing the game and getting the dog off its feet.


Sorry, but throwing a dog across a room is not about anything but the person's frustration and anger, and machismo. Getting a dog off it's feet is one thing...throwing them is quite another. And neither is the solution to the problem being discussed.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

I must have missed the post about beating a dog in anger. Wonder if some over looked the BITE. You can wean and play games by ensuring you take away the opportunity to bite a kid, assuming you can insure that. 

There's certainly opportunity to work on the aggression in many ways. Of course, nobody knows exactly while the dog feels comfortable BITING its owner so all could be prescribing to the wrong disease. 

Either way - the absolutely ONE thing that no one should feel OK with is their own dog biting them. And if my own dog bit me, especially at that age, over a food bowl, I would seriously consider I have a HUGE problem, not an itsy one. 

like I said - growl, warn, even maybeeeee snarl is one thing. Bite is another.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Sharon Potter said:


> Sorry, but throwing a dog across a room is not about anything but the person's frustration and anger, and machismo. Getting a dog off it's feet is one thing...throwing them is quite another. And neither is the solution to the problem being discussed.


Sharon - you can assume all you want to benefit your incorrect statement.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

HNTFSH said:


> Of course, nobody knows exactly while the dog feels comfortable BITING its owner so all could be prescribing to the wrong disease.


There's actually a great deal that is known about canine aggression, and there are proven techniques for dealing with various circumstances. One universal in all that I've been able to find is "don't meet aggression with aggression." Lab owners frequently get away with violating this rule, because Labs are exceptionally forgiving, low-aggression dogs.

There's a bunch of pseudoscientific claptrap out there about dominance that has made a lot of people paranoid--if the dog does any of a number of behaviors the person thinks are disrespectful, the person feels inadequate and panics. "Omigawd, I'm not alpha!" It has nothing to do with effective solutions, however, and in my opinion should not be trotted out and aired at a time that a constructive solution is really important, such as a biting incident.

Amy Dahl


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

SpinRetriever said:


> .....The best course is to place the dog and start over.


 Yup.

Some dogs aren't a good fit with a person's situation. 
Placing a 5 month old pup in a suitable home is going to be a lot cheaper and easier than dragging out the inevitable until the dog is too old to place.

I believe that if the dog stays in the current home, the road ends with a blue needle.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

HNTFSH, I don't think any of the very experienced folks that have offered advice take biting lightly! They have simply offered much more effective, not to mention safer, ways to handle it and prevent it in the future. Only you have advocated throwing the dog across the room. Exactly how have you trained that dog better behavior? Until you have been in the same boat you would be better to read and listen. Our chessie snapped at me once when his main man, my husband was gone. It was over possession of a sock. Since I was physically unable and unwilling to pick that dog up and shake him, I walked over, picked up a leash, healed him to me, put the leash on and we went outside and had a half hour of boring OB. I could have tried to get into it with him, knowing I would likely lose, and we would have a nasty dangerous dog on our hands. Now that same dog is dependable even going hiking where little kids and strangers are all around him. Great dog. Most of them just want to be a part of the pack, its up to us to show them where they fit in. Its not solely about dominance.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Chuckfu said:


> I do feed him in his kennel and I feel like I've established alpha male with him...its like he's starving I feed him 3 times a day he's so agrressive with his food...I read somewhere that takin his food from him wouldn't help but I'm going to give it a try


 He eats fast, because he wants to get as much as he can before you take it away, or mess with him about it.

And this ass-backward "training" is taking place three times a day.
Feed the dog ONCE a day. Put the food down, and walk away.

Your attempts at establishing "dominance" during feeding time are back-firing and making the problem worse. And believe me, it can (and will) get a whole lot worse.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Guess I should have drawn a diagram for the proper throw so all didn't assume bouncing the dog off the wall, through plate glass windows or into the fireplace was what I had in mind. And keep in mind there's usually no yelp since the toss is disorienting the dog. Certainly less 'painful' than a good, acceptable ear pinch. And still amazed that no one considered just getting the dog off its feet - AFTER THE BITE.

I don't need an explanation or a lesson on aggression issues. Some Chessie folks think this is a special Chessie issue and some don't. Please let me know who's correct?

And depending on the reason a 5 month old bites its certain master at the food bowl, was this something that magically began/appeared 3 months after fighting for food at the litter? How does that work?

I'm guessing you can pussy foot around. I agree there are many ways to deal with aggression and the answer best prescribed by the cause of it. But regardless of what that is, and how you plan to treat it....that dog in my house is coming off its feet to get a wide-eyed moment, an associative reaction to biting me.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

once this dog is properly trained/rehabilitated using the suggestions in this thread, logic would also offer the following ongoing solutions:

1. a nice concrete floored run with 6' chainlink enclosure.
2. roof for shade and side sceening for privacy.
3. electricity for fans and lighting, water for cleaning and watering.
4. a surrounding "airing yard" constructed of 6' chainlink with "*kid proof*, locked entrances". a 36" entrance for walking entry and a 6' entrance for a riding mower.
5. requsite warning signs on airing and kennel enclosures.
6. deletion of this entire thread so that in the future if things go badly, no one's attorney can attack your "plausible denial" of your knowledge of the temperment of the dog in question.

a smarty pants way of saying.......be smart, be careful!


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

roseberry said:


> once this dog is properly trained/rehabilitated using the suggestions in this thread, logic would also offer the following ongoing solutions:
> 
> 1. a nice concrete floored run with 6' chainlink enclosure.
> 2. roof for shade and side sceening for privacy.
> ...


Too funny and too true. 

I do however extend the OP best wishes in his endeavor.


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## SpinRetriever (Dec 25, 2012)

copterdoc said:


> He eats fast, because he wants to get as much as he can before you take it away, or mess with him about it.
> 
> And this ass-backward "training" is taking place three times a day.
> Feed the dog ONCE a day. Put the food down, and walk away.
> ...


Yeah puppy feeding should, at the earliest stages, be in a social situation, not in a kennel which the dog treats as his den. This is doubling up the problem.

I any event, OP there is little you or even a pro trainer can do to fix this to the point where you can go to work and the dog can be around family and children at birthday party without you. The risk is too high. A bite from an adult chessie can break the leg or arm of a child. 

My experience with this breed is that they respond to one or two people and are not very good in social situations especially ones that are confusing like the false aggressions in a children's play group.


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

afdahl said:


> There's actually a great deal that is known about canine aggression, and there are proven techniques for dealing with various circumstances. One universal in all that I've been able to find is "don't meet aggression with aggression." Lab owners frequently get away with violating this rule, because Labs are exceptionally forgiving, low-aggression dogs.
> 
> There's a bunch of pseudoscientific claptrap out there about dominance that has made a lot of people paranoid--if the dog does any of a number of behaviors the person thinks are disrespectful, the person feels inadequate and panics. "Omigawd, I'm not alpha!" It has nothing to do with effective solutions, however, and in my opinion should not be trotted out and aired at a time that a constructive solution is really important, such as a biting incident.
> 
> Amy Dahl


From what I have read, If the dog can not be helped with just OB, they just send them home as wash out.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

HNTFSH said:


> Guess I should have drawn a diagram for the proper throw so all didn't assume bouncing the dog off the wall, through plate glass windows or into the fireplace was what I had in mind. And keep in mind there's usually no yelp since the toss is disorienting the dog. Certainly less 'painful' than a good, acceptable ear pinch. And still amazed that no one considered just getting the dog off its feet - AFTER THE BITE.
> 
> I don't need an explanation or a lesson on aggression issues. Some Chessie folks think this is a special Chessie issue and some don't. Please let me know who's correct?
> 
> ...



Can you please post your name (or PM me with it) so I can add you to my "Never sell a puppy to" list? Thanks.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Sharon Potter said:


> Can you please post your name (or PM me with it) so I can add you to my "Never sell a puppy to" list? Thanks.


I think you're safe on that one Sharon.


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## Joel907 (Aug 17, 2012)

HNTFSH is talking about a old Robert Millner approach pick the dog up and shake him by his skin and neck I thank ?

CBR'S bite there not for everyone I don't know too many trainers that will take them in there kennels. 
I thank CBR's are really wonderful dogs.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Joel907 said:


> HNTFSH is talking about a old Robert Millner approach pick the dog up and shake him by his skin and neck I thank ?
> 
> CBR'S bite there not for everyone I don't know too many trainers that will take them in there kennels.
> I thank CBR's are really wonderful dogs.


I know 2 trainers here in Ohio with 2 kennels full of them.And more on the way!!!!! Jim


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Joel907 said:


> HNTFSH is talking about a old Robert Millner approach pick the dog up and shake him by his skin and neck I thank ?
> 
> CBR'S bite there not for everyone I don't know too many trainers that will take them in there kennels.
> I thank CBR's are really wonderful dogs.


Pretty much. I knew Robert stole my technique!

That aside - I've had the misfortune of seeing a beautiful little 5 year old lttle girls face chewed off by her friends Dalmatian. Not a 'mean' dog as I understood it.

Since that time - and the horror of her life-changing dis figuration I've adopted a Zero Tolerance Policy to dogs biting people, except of course, Schutzhund work where dogs are TRAINED to bite people.

And what I described is not the long term answer to addressing any number of reasons a dog, or pup, might bite its owner. What it is however, is an immediate response to a wholly unacceptable act. There is a cause and effect - an association. People can't seem to make up their minds if this is a dominance issue or an aggression issue - the two are not the same. Or the two can be linked. 

I totally understand the pitfalls in aggression meeting aggression as a cure to a food aggression problem. That does not however, mean that aggression can't be applied at the right time, at times, in response. It just means you can't purely overcome a food aggression issue by aggressive acts.

That being the case - what should that timely aggressive act be? (Directly after being BITTEN, a good time to enforce it). Hit the dog (no). Zap the dog (no). Kick the dog (no). Put your face in his face and bite back (could be if you're willing to risk it). But SOMETHING has to gain the dogs full and immediate attention. Usually being lifted off their feet and confronted, shaken and stirred (is that better than toss?) gets the job done. 

Think about all studies would indicate at what age a pup takes its personality on and what quirks are likely going to stay. Aside from the previously mentioned Obedience structure (great idea!) you can only band-aid, or sequester, some behavior. If biting people, especially the owner, is anything less than absolutely unacceptable and no means of consequence are ever exhibited - I think you have an uphill battle and a very dangerous situation.

I'm pretty sure that little girl doesn't care why the dog put her in plastic surgery.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

I love the dog and so do my kids. He listens to them and plays with them hell my five year old can make him sit and stay not to the effect I do but still...they can take things from his mouth a ball or stick without any problems...either way I'm not "placing" him and there's certainly not a blue needle in his future...I didn't mean to start a big ordeal just looking for a few tips. Thanks to all


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## Springer (May 15, 2006)

I am no expert and have only owned about 7 dogs but when I have a puppy home I have the kids come out and pet and annoy the puppy while he is eating. I have found that this seems to take away the possessiveness with the dogs food. I have had young kids that always wanted to be around when we have got a new pup. I will take away the food also a few times while they are little and eating. I do not feed in their kennels but have found now with 3 dogs it is difficult to feed all 3 at once. so I feed the fastest eater first then let him out in the yard and then I feed the other two.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chuck - you are right. You have gotten some good 'tips' to work with. I'm not convinced your dog biting you belongs in the 'tips and tricks' to overcome category but certainly hope so.



Chuckfu said:


> The problem is when he is fed if you touch him he growls and I'm not talking a playful growl I'm talking showing teeth I want to kill growl. I just had my hand under his chest petting him and he snapped and bit me.


What you wrote is concerning though Brother. While Sharon believes you should just simply never allow the kids an opportunity to pet, touch or get near your dogs food bowl the solution...I fear that might be hard to 'manage' without fault. 

You can try to continue building the pups confidence you're not about to steal his chow but it doesn't seem that was the signal you gave the last time he snapped at ya. There is some validity that the pup will some what outgrow this with thoughtful design on your part.

I would just implore you to be extremely careful and seek food aggression education as you move forward so that you can better begin to put the pieces together in terms of approach as the pup gets older.

If the pup bites you again - you already know what I'd do. But hopefully you can find a means to avoid getting bitten while your dog eats.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Hntfsh I agree if he was older we probably woulndt be having this discussion..I will continue at it and hope for the best...I just have a feeling we can get past it he hasn't shown me otherwise in any of our other endeavours


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Why not train kids?

/Paul


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Springer said:


> I do not feed in their kennels but have found now with 3 dogs it is difficult to feed all 3 at once. so I feed the fastest eater first then let him out in the yard and then I feed the other two.


lol...love it!


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chuckfu said:


> Hntfsh I agree if he was older we probably woulndt be having this discussion..I will continue at it and hope for the best...I just have a feeling we can get past it he hasn't shown me otherwise in any of our other endeavours


Luckily he's young and otherwise balanced from your description. Just one of those things to really, really focus on. Not to the point of being tense and overbearing so the dogs feels additional anxiety from you or the family. Some good points were made on your thread. Just make sure you figure it out and try to fix it. Ignoring the issue by logistics alone isn't fixing anything long term. Good luck.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

copterdoc said:


> Yup.
> 
> Some dogs aren't a good fit with a person's situation.
> Placing a 5 month old pup in a suitable home is going to be a lot cheaper and easier than dragging out the inevitable until the dog is too old to place.
> ...


So, why do you think this will end with the dog being put down? And, if you believe that it is inevitable why would you place that dog with someone else?

Tom


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Chuckfu said:


> ....if he was older we probably woulndt be having this discussion.....


 The fact that he is so young, is not a positive.

It means that it's a BIGGER problem. 
If the age of the dog is factoring heavily into your decision, it should be influencing you the other way.

Get rid of the dog now, while somebody else will still have legitimate motivation to take it.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

twall said:


> So, why do you think this will end with the dog being put down?


 The problem has a lot to do with the situation. They don't match. The dog is not a good fit for where it was placed.



twall said:


> And, if you believe that it is inevitable why would you place that dog with someone else?


 The dog needs to be placed in a new home. That's ALWAYS better done sooner than it is when done later.

It's easier on the dog. It's easier on the kids. And the future is brighter for all involved parties. 

But, it's also the last thing that the owner ever wants to believe.
By the time they are ready to believe it, it's too damn late.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

Chuckfu said:


> ...I didn't mean to start a big ordeal just looking for a few tips....


 I absolutely PROMISE that you aren't going to fix this, by reading a few "tips".

This is serious. Take it seriously.


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## Matt Duncan (Feb 21, 2011)

Joel907 said:


> HNTFSH is talking about a old Robert Millner approach pick the dog up and shake him by his skin and neck I thank ?
> 
> CBR'S bite there not for everyone I don't know too many trainers that will take them in there kennels.
> I thank CBR's are really wonderful dogs.


Yes!! They ARE biters! Savage beasts that should be only in the hands of lion tamers and those owning K9 bite suits! Please never get one, this is for your family's safety! They will maul a young child in a heartbeat! I have proof...


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## uplandbird (Mar 21, 2013)

Throwing a dog, euthanizing, finding a different home? Seriously scary advice.
There are professional dog behaviorist out there that would be able to help out way before that would occur in my home. I'm not one of and would never ever give out such advise. Geez


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

uplandbird said:


> Throwing a dog, euthanizing, finding a different home? Seriously scary advice.
> There are professional dog behaviorist out there that would be able to help out way before that would occur in my home. I'm not one of and would never ever give out such advise. Geez


Yes, no input is always the safest route. Geez. Skimming makes it worse.


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## uplandbird (Mar 21, 2013)

HNTFSH said:


> Yes, no input is always the safest route. Geez. Skimming makes it worse.


Glad your such an expert, I am not that is why I SUGGESTED a behaviorist.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

uplandbird said:


> Glad your such an expert, I am not that is why I SUGGESTED a behaviorist.





HNTFSH said:


> I would just implore you to be extremely careful and seek food aggression education as you move forward so that you can better begin to put the pieces together in terms of approach as the pup gets older.


I am not an expert but I can follow a thread and usually comprehend the entirety of what is written.


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

copterdoc said:


> The problem has a lot to do with the situation. They don't match. The dog is not a good fit for where it was placed.
> 
> The dog needs to be placed in a new home. That's ALWAYS better done sooner than it is when done later.
> 
> ...


Copterdoc,

I'm not sure how you come to these conclusions based on what the OP has posted. The situation is serious. The owner is taking it serious. The owner has gotten sound advice from chessie owners/trainers who have decades of experience with the breed. The owner has implemented some of the advice and is seeing improvement.

While re-homing of a dog is warrented in some situations I don't think it is necessary from what I have read in this situation. The owner is not making excuses for the dog and is seeking and utilizing sounds advice. 

Tom


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## uplandbird (Mar 21, 2013)

HNTFSH said:


> I am not an expert but I can follow a thread and usually comprehend the entirety of what is written.


Your kinda funny HNTFSH. Memorial Day Veterans has brought us the freedom to bitch at each other. Carry on


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

Chuckfu said:


> I love the dog and so do my kids. He listens to them and plays with them hell my five year old can make him sit and stay not to the effect I do but still...they can take things from his mouth a ball or stick without any problems...either way I'm not "placing" him and there's certainly not a blue needle in his future...I didn't mean to start a big ordeal just looking for a few tips. Thanks to all


From much of what I've seen on this thread, your pup is lucky to have such a sane master.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

uplandbird said:


> Your kinda funny HNTFSH. Memorial Day Veterans has brought us the freedom to bitch at each other. Carry on


HA! Speaking of funny sir...I should read back through and see if someone else actually mentioned what they 'would' do after being bitten by their dog. Don't recall seeing it - maybe I missed it. 

Noted a women being bit not long ago by her dog. She had lined the dog and trying to eliminate a whining issue at the mark by gently grabbing the dogs nose with a "quiet'. The dog bit her. Broke skin. She did nothing. Clearly not a 'food aggression' issue but an issue nonetheless. 

What was accomplished? What would the folks here do? Being bitten.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

HNTFSH said:


> Has nothing to do with anger but everything to do with changing the game and getting the dog off its feet.


Getting the dog off its feet and throwing it as far as you can are two totally different things. Don't you think?


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Getting the dog off its feet and throwing it as far as you can are two totally different things. Don't you think?


Chris - I can only toss a 50 pound dog 5 or 6 feet I'm guessing. Maybe less. How far can you toss one from the sides of the neck/scruff? And please don't ignore the entire context of my posts as a few others have chosen to do.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

HNTFSH said:


> Chris - I can only toss a 50 pound dog 5 or 6 feet I'm guessing. Maybe less. How far can you toss one? And please don't ignore the entire context of my posts as a few others have chosen to do.


I have already seen a dog with a leg snapped in half. I never want to see it again. (Kevin Ware video inserted here. This is a man jumping up and coming down wrong. A man throwing a dog can do this too.)





I don't want to know how far I can throw a dog. And when I feel the need to throw a dog, as a part of training, I need to get back into fishtanks and out of dogs. 

Here is my concern. Please keep in mind that I'm looking at this from a very different perspective than you or many others. Context is a key piece of this. The only reason I came to this thread is that my phone rang. A buddy of mine who has a Chessie, and has not ever posted a single thing on RTF called me and advised me about the comment of throwing the dog as far as you can. 

The problem, HNTFSH, is that some folks will not read the context and may come away thinking that picking up a dog and throwing it as far as you can is a valid correction for a growling 5 month old puppy. This, of course, is false and is not sound training advice. Frankly, it is brutality.

Just as you don't want to allow such a thing as a dog showing aggression, without intervention, I really don't want to leave a comment about throwing a dog as far as you can, alone. Once I'm "on notice" I feel the need to comment. Other janitors on other resources may handle it differently.

It is absolutely nothing personal. In fact, I have no idea who you are. I just know that I don't want to leave commentary about throwing a dog as far as you can in place without some sort of counter. It is just plain bad dog training advice.

Sincerely,

Chris


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I have already seen a dog with a leg snapped in half. I never want to see it again. I don't want to know how far I can throw a dog. And when I feel the need to throw a dog, as a part of training, I need to get back into fishtanks and out of dogs.
> 
> Here is my concern. Please keep in mind that I'm looking at this from a very different perspective than you or many others. Context is a key piece of this. The only reason I came to this thread is that my phone rang. A buddy of mine who has a Chessie, and has not ever posted a single thing on RTF called me and advised me about the comment of throwing the dog as far as you can.
> 
> ...


I get it Chris. So only posting in a context everyone understands makes a post or point acceptable. That responsibility lies on the poster to know the comprehension skills of all readers in the forum.

So I contest in advance: Anyone says the right time to Collar Condition a pup is 4 month, unless, accompanied by full dissertation. 

Deal?


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

*i liken what copter is saying to this hypothetical story:* rtf folks, see i got this uncle. he was that silly uncle, always a little quirky but everyone loved him. mom and dad let him move into our house one year when he had some bad luck. sometime after that, he molested me and was sent to prison. he is getting out of prison soon, and his treatment officials say he is a model prisoner and completely rehabilitated. i have been in therapy too and seem to be doing well these days. i have two kids of my own now. when he is released should i let him come live with my family until he can register as level five and find a place of his own?

*i liken what hntfish is saying to this:* op you better put some of that "chuck-fu" on his a$$ quick, fast and in a hurry.

where the heck did pete go?????? lol


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

HNTFSH said:


> I get it Chris. So only posting in a context everyone understands makes a post or point acceptable. That responsibility lies on the poster to know the comprehension skills of all readers in the forum.
> 
> So I contest in advance: Anyone says the right time to Collar Condition a pup is 4 month, unless, accompanied by full dissertation.
> 
> Deal?


Here is the deal I'll make with you. If you see someone suggesting brutality as a form of correction, in the name of "training", you should feel free to publicly address it. 

I'll do the same, which is what I've done in this thread.


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## Scott R. (Mar 13, 2012)

If anyone is interested, go back and search the "Chessie v. Lab" thread from a few months ago. Some user names will matchup and their attitudes towards CBR's will make this thread make a lot more sense. Perhaps it will help the original poster narrow the scope of whose advice he should seek.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Here is the deal I'll make with you. If you see someone suggesting brutality as a form of correction, in the name of "training", you should feel free to publicly address it.
> 
> I'll do the same, which is what I've done in this thread.


You are welcome to delete my threads on this topic if you want. There was no brutality, anger, or any other form of barbarian suggested beyond what some dramatic folks decided to impart onto my comment. Furthermore I expanded on my answer to be clear. But that wasn't good enough.

As far as the collar challenge - you know exactly what I'm talking about and I doubt you disagree privately. 

Broken legs on dogs suck - sure enough. Probably most likely to occur in a rage? Again - not what I suggested. Others did. 

But either way - let's all hope the OP's pup gets the right cure. I'd hate most of all the see another young face torn off and imagine you feel the same way.


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## Lorne MacDonald (Apr 15, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Getting the dog off its feet and throwing it as far as you can are two totally different things. Don't you think?


This is the point


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## Lorne MacDonald (Apr 15, 2004)

HNTFSH said:


> I'm probably wrong so take it for me being me.
> 
> If my 5 month old pup of any breed, growled and bit me for rubbing it's tummy while it ate, picking up a 1/2 eaten bowl, or patting his head while he ate....
> 
> ...


Context is pretty clear


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

HNTFSH said:


> You are welcome to delete my threads on this topic if you want. There was no brutality, anger, or any other form of barbarian suggested beyond what some dramatic folks decided to impart onto my comment. Furthermore I expanded on my answer to be clear. But that wasn't good enough.
> 
> As far as the collar challenge - you know exactly what I'm talking about and I doubt you disagree privately.
> 
> ...


The username that wrote that they'd throw a dog as far as they can was yours. Nobody else's. 

If you feel that you laid an egg, you are welcome to edit or delete your own posts. 

I feel that I've addressed it adequately in this thread. I've made it clear that throwing puppies as far as you can is not sound training advice.

Chris


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## Clayton Evans (Jun 26, 2008)

I have owned Chesapeakes for a good number of years and in those years have owned 16 different ones. During that time I have only been bitten by one when I was force fetching him and I immediately alpha rolled him and It has never happened again. Huntfish is way off base dealing with a Chesapeake so what he says should be taken as a grain of salt. You have been given some good advice but you have to seperate the good from the bad but I will say treating aggression by beating and such will get you more aggression from a Chesapeake. They know how to defend themselves if the need arises to do so.
Clay


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

The point is creating separation from the dog. With intent as a correction, perhaps I should have said: "Throw the dog reasonably to the side safely". 

Think I already covered the intent isn't in anger or rage, nor throwing into walls, fireplaces, and plate glass windows.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chris Atkinson said:


> The username that wrote that they'd throw a dog as far as they can was yours. Nobody else's.
> 
> If you feel that you laid an egg, you are welcome to edit or delete your own posts.
> 
> ...


Yep - that was me - should have expanded my comments Chris, certainly agree. Course even after having done so...well....dat don't matter.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Clayton Evans said:


> I have owned Chesapeakes for a good number of years and in those years have owned 16 different ones. During that time I have only been bitten by one when I was force fetching him and I immediately alpha rolled him and It has never happened again. Huntfish is way off base dealing with a Chesapeake so what he says should be taken as a grain of salt. You have been given some good advice but you have to seperate the good from the bad but I will say treating aggression by beating and such will get you more aggression from a Chesapeake. They know how to defend themselves if the need arises to do so.
> Clay


So Clayton - your Chessie bites you in the same scenario. What do you do? Chessies aren't in the top 5 biters statically yet working breeds are. Is there one approach you take on a Chessie biting you versus a Lab or a German Shepherd? Did you also read my response to being bitten was not a long term training solution but rather an immediate response to your dog biting you? 

What does a person do that is Chessiesque when bitten by their dog? Sincere question.


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## classact2731 (Apr 23, 2011)

To the OP I have had 5 peakes starting in in 70's. I know little about training for finished retrievers but have had great hunting and socially acceptable dogs. I have had them growl around food and never had one bite anyone later as suggested by some. Great OB is a great helper as some have suggested. Be fair and seek help if needed from a pro. Having been around a lot of breeds, don't read more into it then a behavior that needs to be addressed. All breeds have food growlers some of my beagles have been the worst. I have been bitten by two dogs in my life one Lab and the other a lab mix and both attacked.Big difference in an attack and a possessive growl or snap around food. One can be dealt with fairly easily ,the other is more of an instinctive thing may or may not be.


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

HNTFSH said:


> What does a person do that is Chessiesque when bitten by their dog? Sincere question.


Question why??? Dogs in training turn or bite for a reason. For the record I have more black and yellow than brown scars.

Tim


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## Matt Duncan (Feb 21, 2011)

HNTFSH said:


> So Clayton - your Chessie bites you in the same scenario. What do you do? Chessies aren't in the top 5 biters statically yet working breeds are. Is there one approach you take on a Chessie biting you versus a Lab or a German Shepherd? Did you also read my response to being bitten was not a long term training solution but rather an immediate response to your dog biting you?
> 
> What does a person do that is Chessiesque when bitten by their dog? Sincere question.


Seriously?!? Just can't stop stirring the pot or what? Step away from the monitor, your ace is showing yet again..


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

I am new to dog training, and I have a lot to learn. But I cannot imagine that I would take a 5.5 MO pup of any breed and "throw it as far as I could" under any circumstances. Picking up by the scruff, yes. Alpha roll, yes. Been there and done that on both counts with a headstrong dog. I have set him up for several strong corrections of the hands-on variety when he showed me nothing else would get his attention. I don't think I am squeamish when it comes to doing what needs to be done. 

But I have never even considered throwing him. YMMV.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Tim Carrion said:


> Question why??? Dogs in training turn or bite for a reason. For the record I have more black and yellow than brown scars.
> 
> Tim


Amen Tim - ask why. How many of your personal dogs, brought in as pups, in any color, have bitten you, while feeding? And what would be your reaction? I am not asking about client dogs being Force Fetched (in case that's what you meant).


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Tim Carrion said:


> Question why??? Dogs in training turn or bite for a reason. For the record I have more black and yellow than brown scars.
> 
> Tim


x2 I have had a dog bite me in training. It was my fault. I put the dog in a position that it could bite me.
I also own a 9 year old rescue Chessie who WAS very grumpy if you messed with his food or pet him when he had food.
So guess what? I did not pet him for the 3 minutes it took him to eat. I did kneel next to and add food to his dish. It got so when he had food and I would kneel he would know he was getting more food. It is easy to trick a retriever!!!!


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Matt Duncan said:


> Seriously?!? Just can't stop stirring the pot or what? Step away from the monitor, your ace is showing yet again..


Legit question met with insults? Really? Isn't the question related to the topic?? WTH?


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

RookieTrainer said:


> I am new to dog training, and I have a lot to learn. But I cannot imagine that I would take a 5.5 MO pup of any breed and "throw it as far as I could" under any circumstances. Picking up by the scruff, yes. Alpha roll, yes. Been there and done that on both counts with a headstrong dog. I have set him up for several strong corrections of the hands-on variety when he showed me nothing else would get his attention. I don't think I am squeamish when it comes to doing what needs to be done.
> 
> But I have never even considered throwing him. YMMV.


I tried to fix my wording a couple posts up.


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## Clayton Evans (Jun 26, 2008)

What does a person do that is Chessiesque when bitten by their dog? Sincere question.[/QUOTE]

Depends on why the dog bite me in the first place. If he bite be because I was messing with his food I would simply take it away. ( his food) But when My dogs are eatting I never bother them and puppys get fed in thier crate from day 1 and kennels when they get older. Even now I have 6 and can take thier bowls away at any time if need be. But I ask why would I do that? I don't like interuption when I'm eating and I'm certain they don't either.
Clay


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

HNTFSH said:


> Amen Tim - ask why. How many of your personal dogs, brought in as pups, in any color, have bitten you, while feeding? And what would be your reaction?


2 have tried in 48 years and my reaction was posted on page 1 #7. 

Tim


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

I've been bitten by exactly one dog in training, and that was a pointing dog breed. And the fact that I got bitten that day was my fault, not the dog's. The scar on my thumb reminds me of that every day. I run a fairly busy training kennel, as well as working with quite a few dogs in a seminar situation on FF, so there are plenty of opportunities for dogs to bite. As my dear friend and mentor, Rick Smith, says, "the reason I don't get bitten is because I know I can get bitten". Pay attention and read the dog, and you'll see the warning long before the bite.

As for creating separation...in the OP's situation, the best way to create separation would be to feed the dog and then leave it alone for the five minutes a day it takes to eat. 

This goes for Chessies, Labs, Pit Bulls, Schnauzers, Poodles, Chihuahuas and any other breed or mix of the canine persuasion.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Tim Carrion said:


> 2 have tried in 48 years and my reaction was posted on page 1 #7.
> 
> Tim


This seems be having a good effect


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Clayton Evans said:


> Depends on why the dog bite me in the first place. If he bite be because I was messing with his food I would simply take it away. ( his food) But when My dogs are eatting I never bother them and puppys get fed in thier crate from day 1 and kennels when they get older. Even now I have 6 and can take thier bowls away at any time if need be. But I ask why would I do that? I don't like interuption when I'm eating and I'm certain they don't either.
> Clay


Thanks - I understand your perspective and agree 'over messing' with dogs food (or the dog) doesn't buy a lot. Of course if I knew I had a young dog with somewhat serious issues with food, to the point it would bite me for patting his hind, I'd not leave that to chance as a behavior. I hate it when the waiter comes by too often but I don't punch him in the face for it. Especially if a 'house dog' with kids around. Fortunately the OP is attempting to address the issue.

As earlier pointed out - the concern is behavior and long term risk that a dog of this nature will next find toys, bones, and perhaps birds worthy of the same ownership. 

And to be honest - If your answer of being bitten by your dog is simply removing the bowl - I'll assume it's not happened often, if at all, or certainly not ongoing. Which is good.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Here is the culprit looks mean right...notice my girl is eating a popsicle that he didn't touch its only his food bowl


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

Chuckfu said:


> This seems be having a good effect


Completely agreed with Tim's approach as training.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

One more just for good measures


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

HNTFSH said:


> What does a person do that is Chessiesque when bitten by their dog? Sincere question.


I have come to the opinion that a sudden, harsh response is rarely or never the best approach to unexpected, undesirable behavior. In reacting quickly, we give up the ability to understand the causes of the behavior, as well as the ability to gauge our response to "just the amount needed." And if the dog in question is a Chesapeake, of course, harshness may damage the training relationship.

A single instance of bad behavior does not a habit make. So my answer is that, in the moment, I do nothing. I take the time to think through the implications of the behavior and develop a training plan to get to the behavior I want. 

Several people made suggestions to the OP in this vein.

Amy Dahl


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

twall said:


> Copterdoc,
> 
> I'm not sure how you come to these conclusions based on what the OP has posted. The situation is serious. The owner is taking it serious. The owner has gotten sound advice from chessie owners/trainers who have decades of experience with the breed. The owner has implemented some of the advice and is seeing improvement.
> 
> ...


 I do not think that he is taking it seriously. 
If he was, he would be getting hands on help, not trying to DIY working with "tips".

And yes, I do think that he is making excuses. I think that he is rationalizing and excusing his way right into a really big problem. 

It's not a Chessie problem. It's not a dominance problem.
It's an aggression problem, and a placement problem. 

There are people that can properly deal with the issue. And taking the dog out of the situation that it is in, and putting it in a better situation, with an owner that can deal with it RIGHT NOW, is a seriously logical and high percentage solution. 

Dogs are situational. If you change the situation, you change the dog. And that might be all that it takes.

I do NOT believe that the OP is taking this seriously. Yet.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

afdahl said:


> I have come to the opinion that a sudden, harsh response is rarely or never the best approach to unexpected, undesirable behavior. In reacting quickly, we give up the ability to understand the causes of the behavior, as well as the ability to gauge our response to "just the amount needed." And if the dog in question is a Chesapeake, of course, harshness may damage the training relationship.
> 
> A single instance of bad behavior does not a habit make. So my answer is that, in the moment, I do nothing. I take the time to think through the implications of the behavior and develop a training plan to get to the behavior I want.
> 
> ...


Thanks Amy and know I agree with you, and 'a' training plan at large. And as posted, completely agree on understanding the nature of the aggression so to modify it. 

Maybe the OP didn't really mean "snarls like it wants to kill" but if close, I wouldn't consider the resulting bite an 'unexpected' behavior. At least it won't be from this point forward I suspect. 

What's interesting to me is that some consider it kind of a Chessie thing, or Chessie like - while others don't. Others take this behavior in stride and simply adjust logistics to seemingly ignore it.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

It may be a chessie problem if chessie's were the only ones to do it. However just about every breed I've worked with, sporting and non sporting, have dogs that will do this. Frankly I see no sense in messing with a dog while it eats, although plenty of OB training material suggests messing with the dog while he eats to condition the dog. I feel its a reward they earned by sitting until I release them to eat. With the dogs, performance and OB, that i've worked with, anytime a dog showed this behavior a quick cuff under the chin and stern no broke the event. A correction doesn't have to be harsh to be effective.

/Paul


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

This thread has been restored at the original poster's request. (original posters have the ability to delete a thread that they start) Chuckfu decided that maybe some of the good recommendations, given by folks with many decades' worth of experience, was worth leaving on the board for the next guy or gal who comes along with a similar question.

Thanks Chuck! Chris


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## riskyriver (Feb 23, 2010)

Chuck - you have gotten some good (not all!) advice. A couple other bits from me - since this pup has shown some food issues AND you have kids in the home - be cautious with chew toys, bones etc that you give your pup. To be safe, I would avoid giving him rawhide or any bone or 'chew' he considers edible (something like a Kong or Nylabone is a safer bet) at this time anyway. And - keep up your socializing (people, places etc) w/ this pup, along with daily OB lessons and plenty of exercise - getting the family involved as much as possible too.
Diane (and 4 CBRS)


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## Jerry Beil (Feb 8, 2011)

I think this thread got sidetracked by the throwing the dog theme, which sounds more like it was poorly stated originally. I think Copterdoc has made a lot of good posts on this. I think the suggestion that the dog doesn't look vicious or pictures of chessies with kids or whatever else is completely making excuses for the dog, or somehow denying that there is a problem here when everything about the OP says there is. We know from the original post that this dog growls aggressively and snapped and bit his owner over food. That is a problem period, and it doesn't matter if he doesn't look aggressive. The idea that the OP is less worried about this behavior in a 6 month old pup because the dog is young is also a concern. If the dog was acting like it was growling like it wanted to kill why would you put yourself in a vulnerable place like petting his chest etc. There are methods to address this kind of behavior, and I'm sure Amy Dahl and others with the massive amount of experience they have would be able to address it, but I'm not getting that vibe from the OP. Not trying to be insulting, but this sure sounds like the beginning of a serious problem if it doesn't get addressed correctly and soon. I'm sure you have no plans for the blue needle, but when your pup decides that green Popsicle is his and takes a chunk out of your kids face, my guess is you won't be feeling like it's something you can work through anymore, and I think that is Copterdoc's point.

The fact that a dog will sit and do obedience for a young child has very little to do with this situation. Lots of dogs will do that because it's a game to them, or they get a treat or they get a hug or a pat on the head, or just for the attention. I tend to agree that it's as likely as not to not be a dominance issue but a fear issue.


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## steve schreiner (Jun 15, 2009)

The talk about it being a Chessie problem is all wrong ...It comes with all pack animals at eating time ...Wolves ,big cats and the like ...A lot of growling goes on to show possessiveness of their particular spot at the table... the more submissive ones eat later ...This behavior can and does come with all breeds of dogs...As some have suggested just feed the dog in a crate or kennel away from all and just forget the issue...Be aware of any other attempts of possessiveness from the dog especially around family members...and ...address them on the spot...My concern with the whole issue is , Will I be able to get something out of my dogs mouth if needed...One test done by some before placing a rescue dog is the use of a glove on a pole and the trying to take the food bowl away from the dog...If the fake hand gets bitten no blood is shed..The Chessies I have dealt with in the past have not displayed this behavior...There are other methods of taking possession of a food bowl or any object the dog claims than by a physical confrontation with the ole alpha roll over ....I am one that doesn't like my pack leadership challenged so I get this out of the way as soon as a new dog arrives...The food bowl is the most important thing in a dogs life I believe....And it belongs to me...I have never been bitten over claiming it when a dog is eating ( may with the next dog ) and never had a big confrontation over it.. Possessiveness of any object is not allowed...Even with the house dog..a miniature Schnauzer, all 12 lbs of her ... Steve S


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

To the OP, listen to the Chessie people as you have been.


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## HNTFSH (Feb 7, 2009)

labsforme said:


> To the OP, listen to the Chessie people as you have been. So called (quasi) experts like HNTFSH and Copterdoc are always spouting off and stirring things up unnecessarily. Not just here but on other boards they are on too. Same modus operandi (sp). It's a puppy. Train it.Knee jerk reactions very rarely work. It's too bad that those who may be really trying to learn something have to sift through the garbage.
> Later and out.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff - I've been on the active end of a thread a time or two. Most people have, that have an opinion that's their own.

At the same time - helped many a new guy/gal both on a forum and in person. 

As previously stated my initial wording on this thread was wrong - it was not what I "meant" to state nor what was in my mind's eye "to" say. 

But you chiming in with insults, propaganda and insinuation at this point makes me feel a lot better about myself. It's the YOU's of the world I seem to end up arguing with.


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## Jerry Beil (Feb 8, 2011)

Bottom line, the OP needs to get help with this situation, and not just the internet message board advice kind of help. This is not something easy for an inexperienced person to read in the dog or address, and just hoping it goes away is probably not a good plan.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

OK guys....drop the insults please. There's some good recommendation in here.

Please let the users do their own sorting and discarding. I believe in this thread, the choices are fairly obvious.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Just an update Butch is all but cured. I can leave my hands in his bowl and he is fine with it. He is almost 7 months old now and he is doing really well in other areAs. Thanks for all the advice


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## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

Thanks for the update! Happy for you, your family and Butch!


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## Clayton Evans (Jun 26, 2008)

Way to go Butch. All it takes to train a Chesapeake is a little love and devotion.
Clay


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## Scott R. (Mar 13, 2012)

Chuckfu said:


> Just an update Butch is all but cured. I can leave my hands in his bowl and he is fine with it. He is almost 7 months old now and he is doing really well in other areAs. Thanks for all the advice


Just curious but what was the fix? Glad you guys worked through it.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

I think it was a combination of things. We've been hammering obedience for the past 2 months. More and more socialization. I fed him with his bowl elevated for a month I think. If any signs of aggression showed I would heel him away. If he tensed up I would keep talking to him. Might have been luck too


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

congrats chuck!!!!! keep up the good work!


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Good job chuck!!!!Just a heads up ,be prepared for it to show back up,not so much around the food bowl but in pressure situatons.Not saying it will but keep it in the back of your head.Hows his marking comin along?


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

I definitely will keep a watch out. Honestly his marking could be better. We've just started ff and I really wanted to do this but I think I'm going to need a pros help. I just don't want to mess it up


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Scott R. said:


> Just curious but what was the fix? Glad you guys worked through it.


Another thing that helped was the nilif. I also wouldn't give him his entire portion at once. When he finished what I gave him I would walk over and add to it. My wife would even put the bowl in her lap and make him eat like that. She would hand feed him too. The. Eventually he got it I guess


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

Chuckfu said:


> I definitely will keep a watch out. Honestly his marking could be better. We've just started ff and I really wanted to do this but I think I'm going to need a pros help. I just don't want to mess it up


Just to reassure you, it's common for marking to drop off (in fact, retrieving desire in general might go away temporarily) during FF. Some say don't do any retrieving at all during FF.

I'm not experienced enough to advise you on FF details, but I found getting a good solid hold first helped a lot. Then use the word "fetch" instead of hold as you hand him the buck... continuing to use the word hold after it's in his mouth. When he is taking the buck on the word fetch, then start with the more formal FF procedure, following the program you're working on. 

Glad to hear you've made such good progress on the original problem.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Sharon Potter said:


> It's been my experience that food aggression is often displayed not by a dominant dog, but by one that was lower in the order in its litter, and had to work harder for food. They can carry that need to fight for and defend their food into adulthood.
> 
> And anybody that thinks throwing a dog across a room as far as they can is a good way to correct, shouldn't be allowed to own one, and may want to consider anger management classes.


totally agree with this


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Rick Hall said:


> From much of what I've seen on this thread, your pup is lucky to have such a sane master.


good post Rick


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Chuck glad to hear your pup is making progress. Sharon's advice is to me GOLDEN. Rick Smith and his Dad Delmar were were the Gold Standard of dog training for my Dad. I am an old geezer but sometimes the easiest training advice goes overlooked. I have 12 Labs that are feed in 4 large feed pans once a day. If any of them growl they get immediate attention from me as I make them leave the feed pan. This is the simple way I teach them that I *let* them eat at my discression.(sp). having worked with pointing dogs about 20 years and retrievers since about 1991 the most important thing I have learned is to read your dogs posturing and know what they are saying by their body signs. I have been working with a very promising Lab that was burned in a plastic kennel with a cattle prod for barking. I have had him since last October and yesterday for the first time he kenneled every time with out a fight. Patience and kindness go a long way in dog training ........GOOD LUCK again with your pup. You sound like a very good Master to him.


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

Butch's first hunt. He was almost 9 months. Too young probably but it was a controlled environment. The nooner ranch in Hondo. Great hunt.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Nice job...he doing OK for you.?


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## Ed Bahr (Jul 1, 2007)

Chuckfu said:


> Butch's first hunt. He was almost 9 months. Too young probably but it was a controlled environment. The nooner ranch in Hondo. Great hunt.


Very Nice.......


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

congrats chuckfu!!!!


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## Chuckfu (Feb 16, 2013)

jd6400 said:


> Nice job...he doing OK for you.?


He is doing pretty good. I was proud of him. We've came a long way but still have a ways to go. It's was funny to watch him go after his first live bird. I've thrown him dead ones before but never live.


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