# Pro Duck Hunter/Guide/Call Maker in Trouble ?



## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

Staff
Crime,Local News
12/9/2010
2:59 pm 
WASHINGTON – A federal grand jury in Springfield, Ill., returned a 23-count felony indictment today charging Jeffrey B. Foiles with conspiracy, wildlife trafficking, and making false writings in connection with the illegal sale of guided waterfowl hunts, the Department of Justice announced Thursday. 
The indictment charges Foiles, 53, of Pleasant Hill, Ill., with conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act and the federal false writings statute, 12 substantive violations of the Lacey Act, and ten counts of making false writings in a matter within the jurisdiction of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

The Lacey Act is a federal law that makes it illegal to knowingly transport or sell wildlife taken in violation of federal law or regulation. The act defines the sale of wildlife to include the sale of guiding services for the illegal taking of wildlife.

The indictment alleges that from 2003 to 2007, Foiles conspired with others to knowingly transport and sell ducks and geese that had been hunted and killed in violation of federal laws protecting migratory birds. In particular, Foiles is alleged to have sold guided waterfowl hunts at the Fallin’ Skies Strait Meat Duck Club in Pike County, Ill., for the purpose of illegally hunting and killing ducks and geese in excess of hunters’ individual daily bag limits. Foiles and his associates are also alleged to have falsified hunting records at the club in order to conceal the excesses, and to have filmed the illegal hunts for inclusion in commercial hunting videos.

An indictment is merely an accusation, and a defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law.

The maximum penalty for a felony violation of the Lacey Act or the federal false writing statute includes up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

The case was investigated by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, in cooperation with the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, the Iowa Department of Natural Resources, and the government of Canada. The case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Central District of Illinois and the Justice Department’s Environmental Crimes Section 



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## mlp (Feb 20, 2009)

Wow, 23 counts !


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

This has been brewing for at least a couple of years from what I've heard. In other words I heard he was in trouble a looong time ago. The story I heard was that something illegal was captured on video when he was filming for his DVDs. I can't remember exactly. It was something like his gun clearly fired more than 3 times which means he didn't have a plug or he shot a triple when the daily bag limit (Canadas?) was 2 birds...something along those lines where the video itself was damning if you paid close attention. I don't know about the rest of the charges. Once they had the initial violation they probably crawled up his butt with a magnifying glass. From what I've heard it is a case of a bad situation affecting a pretty good guy. Not saying he isn't responsible if laws were broken, but from what I was told he really had a bullseye on him and is actually a good guy.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

HuntinDawg said:


> This has been brewing for at least a couple of years from what I've heard. In other words I heard he was in trouble a looong time ago. The story I heard was that something illegal was captured on video when he was filming for his DVDs. I can't remember exactly. It was something like his gun clearly fired more than 3 times which means he didn't have a plug or he shot a triple when the daily bag limit (Canadas?) was 2 birds...something along those lines where the video itself was damning if you paid close attention. I don't know about the rest of the charges. Once they had the initial violation they probably crawled up his butt with a magnifying glass. From what I've heard it is a case of a bad situation affecting a pretty good guy. Not saying he isn't responsible if laws were broken, but from what I was told he really had a bullseye on him and is actually a good guy.


then there needs to be lots of 'splainin' to account for 4 years of allegations and 23 counts...people dont "accidentally" forget their plug on a waterfowl gun, and most folks i know dont shoot geese and quail with the same gun......just sayin'..

no excuses and he deserves to have the book thrown at him. he is making a living off of wildlife and owes it to the world, us, mother earth and God to do it ethically. i hardly think this guy is a mere jaywalker.


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## Joseph Kendrick (Mar 19, 2010)

This could turn out real bad for him. The duck club is already up for sale, what's next?


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

You don't need to take the plug out of some guns to float a fourth shell. With the Beretta and Benelli it's easy.


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## Archery1973 (Jan 15, 2010)

That's unfortunate......I really like Falln Skies.


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## kpolley (Jun 5, 2007)

Remember that market hunting/commericialization of wildlife is what caused the near extinction of wildlife in most of North America. Many organizations have worked hard to restore these species to what we enjoy today. I can tell you no one has a "bullseye " on his back. People who take overlimits or double dip are poachers and should be prosecuted. The fact that a person exploits wildlife for personal gain adds an additional element that is considered in prosecution. I'm glad the feds are involved and I hope they swing for the fence. Bottome line - don't do the crime if you're not willing to do the time!!!


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

david gibson said:


> then there needs to be lots of 'splainin' to account for 4 years of allegations and 23 counts...people dont "accidentally" forget their plug on a waterfowl gun, and most folks i know dont shoot geese and quail with the same gun......just sayin'..
> 
> no excuses and he deserves to have the book thrown at him. he is making a living off of wildlife and owes it to the world, us, mother earth and God to do it ethically. i hardly think this guy is a mere jaywalker.


I'm not making excuses for the guy. I don't know him although I do have one of his goose calls and I think I spoke to him on the phone once. I had heard this several years ago and now I see that the OP's text indicates that it was from 2003-2007. What I heard was surely something close to his side of the story, so you know how that goes. The person relaying all of this to me was a professional guide who is extremely ethical. Can't remember whether they had ever hunted together or not, but I know that Foiles taught the guy (an outstanding duck caller) some things about calling Canada's with Foiles' calls. It was this person's OPINION that Jeff was in a real jam but was basically a good guy that made a mistake. I don't know the full details.

Again, I'm not making excuses for the guy, but many years ago as a teenager (like 13 y.o.) I hunted deer with my 20 gauge and no plug was required. This almost resulted in not having my plug in my gun when going to a dove hunt. I remembered it at the last minute and couldn't find my plug. I wound up cutting a pencil to length to act as a plug...and shazam, I got my gun checked at that dove shoot - the only time I've ever been checked in my life. If I had forgotten the plug (as I almost did) I would have been guilty, but it would not have been my intent, and it wouldn't mean I was some kind of willful, belligerent, serial game violator.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not ready to condemn the guy without knowing a lot more. Remember, he is (or was at least) running a guiding business so that is a lot more activity that just the average duck hunter and he is probably saddled with some responsibility for what his clients do as well, which isn't always completely under his control.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

MarkyMark said:


> You don't need to take the plug out of some guns to float a fourth shell. With the Beretta and Benelli it's easy.


I hadn't heard that about the Beretta, and with the Benelli I thought it was only the older ones.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

kpolley said:


> I can tell you no one has a "bullseye " on his back.


I agree with you that poachers should be prosecuted, but I don't see how you can KNOW that no one has a bullseye on their back. Pretty bold statement IMO. Any time human beings are involved there is always a chance that someone has a burr under their saddle for a particular individual. If someone is running a guiding business and hunting every day of the season (running who knows how many blinds, which means he isn't personally supervising every hunt) and you are using surveillance and scrutinizing every thing done in his name for 4 years, I think you would be likely to find a violation of some kind for virtually any guide/outfitter out there. Just too many people on too many hunts on too many days with so much minutiae in the regs to possibly trip over.

I'm just pulling this one out of the air and have no idea if it has anything to do with this case, but as an example:

You are on an extended waterfowl hunting trip in another state and cleaning ducks and geese every day at the conclusion of the day's hunt. How many of you are really going to leave a wing or head attached to each duck/goose breast as per the regs? How many of you do that? It is unsanitary as hell, takes more room and the wing bones can puncture your zip locks causing more contamination, but it is the law unless you pay for commercial processing.


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## Rudd (Jan 9, 2008)

HuntinDawg said:


> I hadn't heard that about the Beretta, and with the Benelli I thought it was only the older ones.


Can't float the 4th in my SBE II.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Well his duck club is up for sale, 145 acres for 1.45M...would probably make one heck of a dog training site

http://www.agrirecland.com/2010/07/foiless-fallin-skies-straight-meat-duck-club-illinois.html


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## tshuntin (Mar 22, 2003)

BonMallari said:


> Well his duck club is up for sale, 145 acres for 1.45M...would probably make one heck of a dog training site
> 
> http://www.agrirecland.com/2010/07/foiless-fallin-skies-straight-meat-duck-club-illinois.html


Bon my good buddy old pal, get it bought and I will come hunt with you.


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## RedlegHunter (May 19, 2010)

Heard the initial start to the investigation was an instance of "Floating a 4th shell" caught on tape during a Canada Waterfowl hunt. Subsequent investigation was done at his waterfowl property by undercover federal agents acting as clients on several different trips and resulted in over limit shooting at the property in the US also.

Not feeling any Sympathy for a guy who is breaking multiple laws in two different countries.

It wasn't 1 mistake it was 23 confirmed violations over an extended period. Wonder how many additional instances occured when there was now investigator to document it. Hope they bury him!


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## Dale (Dec 21, 2003)

Oh no, I really like my Foiles calls.


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

Rudd try a credit card. I do it here in my state for the resident goose season. We are allowed no plug but no exteneded mag for a 15 bird limit.


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## kpolley (Jun 5, 2007)

HuntinDawg said:


> I'm just pulling this one out of the air and have no idea if it has anything to do with this case, but as an example:
> 
> You are on an extended waterfowl hunting trip in another state and cleaning ducks and geese every day at the conclusion of the day's hunt. How many of you are really going to leave a wing or head attached to each duck/goose breast as per the regs? How many of you do that? It is unsanitary as hell, takes more room and the wing bones can puncture your zip locks causing more contamination, but it is the law unless you pay for commercial processing.


I know of a group of 8 snow goose hunters who thought the same thing this past spring and 3 pheasant hunters this fall. In the spring I seized 108 breasted out birds and most recently 38 breasted out pheasants. The ironic thing is when going through the breasted out snow geese I also found several duck breasts and on the pheasant hunters 2 of the 3 ended up having no permits. I have found if a hunter can't follow the simple rules needed for identification during transportation they often choose not to follow the other laws. 

Although many laws seem trivial, if you look at the reasoning behind them, they are made to protect the resource so many of us enjoy!


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## Kevin Hannah (Jan 6, 2003)

HuntinDawg said:


> I hadn't heard that about the Beretta, and with the Benelli I thought it was only the older ones.


Still lots of the older ones around, just dont see them come up for sale.

Anyone who has a SBE I is holding on to it for sure.

SBE II in factory condition will not allow you to float the forth shell. Key work is factory!


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

The original incident did involve floating a fourth shell if I remember correctly. I have two older Benellis that will both float a shell. The Montefeltro that I have will hold four in the magazine (unplugged), one in the the chamber and float one making it riot gun, not to mention the two I can hold between my fingers at the fore grip.
It brings up a possible sticky situation when checked. The mag is plugged to two, one in the chamber and then the game warden floats one and you have a ticket whether you knew the gun was capable or not. Knowing that I guess it would be best to make a longer plug that will only hold one shell in the magazine.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

kpolley said:


> I have found if a hunter can't follow the simple rules needed for identification during transportation they often choose not to follow the other laws.
> 
> Although many laws seem trivial, if you look at the reasoning behind them, they are made to protect the resource so many of us enjoy!


I understand the reason for the law, but I think it goes to an extreme and is very impractical. I breast out my birds, meaning no bones. So how am I going to leave a wing or head attached. Plus, like I said, it is unsanitary as hell and it basically means you have to clean your birds twice. I'm not talking about cleaning birds in the field. I'm talking about cleaning them every night back at the hotel. Say there is a guy who lives next door to the hotel and we hunted in the same field (implausible I know, but for example). We both came out of the field with whole birds. We both drove the same distance to the place we will be spending the night and we both have a need to clean our birds. He can clean his. I can only partially clean mine. It makes no sense. Oh, but I can pay a processor to do it for me. The processor has no idea whether I was over the limit or not. If I was a rogue I would lie to the processor, use multiple processors or throw the illegal birds in a ditch. That is what rogues do isn't it?



Kevin Hannah said:


> Still lots of the older ones around, just dont see them come up for sale.
> 
> Anyone who has a SBE I is holding on to it for sure.


I have an older one and I can't wait to upgrade to a SBE II or Extrema 2. It'll probably be another year or two though.



David McLendon said:


> The original incident did involve floating a fourth shell if I remember correctly. I have two older Benellis that will both float a shell. The Montefeltro that I have will hold four in the magazine (unplugged), one in the the chamber and float one making it riot gun, not to mention the two I can hold between my fingers at the fore grip.
> It brings up a possible sticky situation when checked. The mag is plugged to two, one in the chamber and then the game warden floats one and you have a ticket whether you knew the gun was capable or not. Knowing that I guess it would be best to make a longer plug that will only hold one shell in the magazine.


Yeah, I had heard that a game warden can basically automatically ticket anyone with an old SBE for having an unplugged gun if they know how to float one (and you know they know how), which basically means if they want to write you up they can even if you were doing nothing wrong. I would hope they wouldn't do it just for the sake of it though. I would hope they would have a good idea you were actually doing that or breaking other laws. Sorta reminds me of when I was driving a brand new car years ago with no modifications - straight factory equipment and I had a cop make a huge deal about the fog lights supposedly being illegal. He explained himself ad nauseum and I just kept telling him that it came from the factory that way. I wanted to say, hey, take it up with Pontiac. That is the way I feel about the Benelli thing. If the gun is plugged and you don't catch the guy floating (easy enough to count shots from a distance) leave him alone [EDIT: assuming the gun is not modified for extra capacity]. BTW, I've never heard of anyone getting ticketed just for having the gun that is capable of floating the 4th, but I've heard that they CAN do it, technically. Game wardens I've met have seemed like reasonable people so I would hope they wouldn't ticket just for the capability, but by the letter of the law they could.


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## PocketLab (Apr 23, 2010)

I only hunt ducks at my camp. I have anywhere between 2 and 8 guys a weekend. Every bird that's cleaned has a wing on it. Only exception is what's going to be cooked.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

I'm glad Foiles is going down. Throw every book at him, give him jail time and maximum fines. He's been a black eye to the sport for many years and his enlarged ego brought him there. His respect for the true sportsman has been long gone and his pillaging of public resources is finally over.


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## Kevin Hannah (Jan 6, 2003)

In most cases the CO will know your firing more then three shells before they walk up. They have been watching long before you knew they were there, all they will be doing is confirming the gun is a model capable of floating a shell or that its unplugged.

Don't think they could charge you just for having it they have to catch you doing it.
I know my truck will go over the speed limit but they cannot lay a charge untill they catch you doing it.

Kevin


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

LOL. You obviously haven't been around enough crooked game wardens. Believe you me, they can & will come up with bogus tickets just because they're dbags.


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## dakotaridge (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow Jacob. Those are some pretty harsh words. You must have gotten a ticket for a violation of some sort. Most are not "dbags". They are just doing their jobs enforcing the rules.


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## BriarBend Kennels (Sep 25, 2009)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> LOL. You obviously haven't been around enough crooked game wardens. Believe you me, they can & will come up with bogus tickets just because they're dbags.


yep, that's the truth, *especially* here in LA...


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

And we need to air this on a public forum because?????????????????
Sue


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

dakotaridge said:


> Wow Jacob. Those are some pretty harsh words. You must have gotten a ticket for a violation of some sort. Most are not "dbags". They are just doing their jobs enforcing the rules.


It's the truth. In the Monroe area there are a few that are well known for this. I'm not saying all are by any means. I have ran into a few who were cool as all get out and down to earth. That's just how it is. In other parts of northern Louisiana, I have had no problems with game wardens. They've all just done their job. That's all I'm saying. There are crooked game wardens out there. Most aren't.


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## Don Smith (Mar 23, 2004)

Kevin Hannah said:


> Still lots of the older ones around, just dont see them come up for sale.
> 
> Anyone who has a SBE I is holding on to it for sure.
> 
> SBE II in factory condition will not allow you to float the forth shell. Key work is factory!


True. I've got 3 generations of SBE. You can only float a th shell in the first. I've tried in all of them --- no, not in the field, in my house, just to see if it was possible.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Kevin Hannah said:


> In most cases the CO will know your firing more then three shells before they walk up. They have been watching long before you knew they were there, all they will be doing is confirming the gun is a model capable of floating a shell or that its unplugged.
> 
> Don't think they could charge you just for having it they have to catch you doing it.
> I know my truck will go over the speed limit but they cannot lay a charge untill they catch you doing it.
> ...


I'm sure you are right that they normally observe first and then confirm. However, if it is an unplugged gun capable of holding more than 2 in the magazine then they don't need to see you shoot at all. I know the only time I was ever checked (on the dove shoot mentioned earlier when I had a pencil in my 20 ga. serving as a plug) the warden came to my blind and told me to empty my gun. I did so and then he told me to start shoving shells in the magazine tube until it wouldn't hold any more. If it had held more than 2 in the magazine I would have been ticketed and rightfully so, regardless of how many I was loading in the gun at one time. I think that is different from the Benelli thing. I hunted with my Benelli for several years before I knew about the "Benelli load." Somebody in the duck blind saw that I was hunting with a Benelli and asked me if I was loading 4. I thought he was asking if I had a plug in my gun and told him that I did. He took my gun and showed me how you can load 4. It is a factory thing like the fog lights on my old Pontiac that were apparently in violation with Georgia law. I shouldn't be held responsible for the fact that my Benelli will hold 4 if you load it in an unconventional way, in which it was never intended to be loaded, unless I actually do it IMO.

As for the crooked game warden comments, any time you have a large number of people in a group (wardens, police, Americans, lawyers, preachers, doctors, politicians, whatever) there are going to be a percentage that are an embarrassment to the rest. People are imperfect and some of the worst will always be drawn to positions where they have some authority or influence. That's just the way it is, but not a reason to brand a group of people (except maybe politicians!). I've encountered a couple of cops who had no business having a badge or gun, but most I've encountered have been very professional. I've met far fewer game wardens, but have never had a bad experience.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

Paragraph 24 of the Indictment:

In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES . . . drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars were at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands and neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter. 

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/Indictment.pdf



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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

It boils down too, He is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. Having said that, if a Federal Grand Jury handed down an indictment, you can be assured that there is plenty of evidence to support the case. It's a shame if it's true (doesn't matter if you like or dislike Mr Foiles) because it places a bad light on the rest of us hunters who try to obey the laws. The non-hunters will eat it up, especially since he runs a commercial club and is so well known & recognized. I'm not worried about him, he will get what he deserves(prison,fines or set free), I am worried how it will effect the rest of us. 

Never understood the need to shoot over the limit, or "float a 4th shell". As my dad always says, "if you're THAT hungry I have a sandwich you can have."


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Doc E said:


> Paragraph 24 of the Indictment:
> 
> In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES . . . drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars were at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands and neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter.


Wow. Mind boggling.

Where is the whole indictment available online?


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## Jason Glavich (Apr 10, 2008)

Doc E said:


> Paragraph 24 of the Indictment:
> 
> In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES . . . drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars were at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands and neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter.
> 
> ...


Where are you finding the indictment? I looked on the DOJ website but can only find the press release about it.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

I am not a Foiles fan, but I will await the finding/ruling of a jury before passing judgement, since he is already being tried in the court of public opinion


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## Kevin Hannah (Jan 6, 2003)

HuntinDawg said:


> I'm sure you are right that they normally observe first and then confirm. However, if it is an unplugged gun capable of holding more than 2 in the magazine then they don't need to see you shoot at all. I know the only time I was ever checked (on the dove shoot mentioned earlier when I had a pencil in my 20 ga. serving as a plug) the warden came to my blind and told me to empty my gun. I did so and then he told me to start shoving shells in the magazine tube until it wouldn't hold any more. If it had held more than 2 in the magazine I would have been ticketed and rightfully so, regardless of how many I was loading in the gun at one time. I think that is different from the Benelli thing. I hunted with my Benelli for several years before I knew about the "Benelli load." Somebody in the duck blind saw that I was hunting with a Benelli and asked me if I was loading 4. I thought he was asking if I had a plug in my gun and told him that I did. He took my gun and showed me how you can load 4. It is a factory thing like the fog lights on my old Pontiac that were apparently in violation with Georgia law. I shouldn't be held responsible for the fact that my Benelli will hold 4 if you load it in an unconventional way, in which it was never intended to be loaded, unless I actually do it IMO.


I never did say anything about an unplugged gun, if you are shooting a plugged Benelli SBE I and loading it "properly" there are no laws being broken. They will check all the guns for plugs though, if someone is floating a shell they will normally know who it is before they get out to you is all I am saying.


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## Jeffrey Towler (Feb 17, 2008)

Doc E said:


> Paragraph 24 of the Indictment:
> 
> In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES . . . drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars were at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands and neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter.
> 
> ...


Well, I hope this is not true.

Regards
JT


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## savage25xtreme (Dec 4, 2009)

Doc E said:


> Paragraph 24 of the Indictment:
> 
> In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES . . . drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars were at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands and neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter.
> 
> ...


Dude deserves a good ole country a$$ whippin'. I have been fowl hunting 12 years now and have never gotten a band. I bet I appreciate the ones I get or maybe don't get in my life time quite a bit more than him though.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

savage25xtreme said:


> Dude deserves a good ole country a$$ whippin'. I have been fowl hunting 12 years now and have never gotten a band. I bet I appreciate the ones I get or maybe don't get in my life time quite a bit more than him though.


Neither have I so I suppose that means we're not hard core enough for all those "prostaffers" and the kool aid they're drinking or being bootlickers of these "PRO" duck hunters.

It really makes me sick to look at ebay and see the numerous pages of unreported waterfowl bands for sale.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

BonMallari said:


> I am not a Foiles fan, but I will await the finding/ruling of a jury before passing judgement, since he is already being tried in the court of public opinion


Sadly enough, that's more damning than anything he did or didn't do (I wasn't there and I'm not about to form an opinion about somebody or their ethics when I have no clue. Now if others in life would learn that lil jewel, hypocrisy levels would drastically decrease.) & he hasn't even went to court. It'll all come out in the wash one way or another. Either way, it doesn't change my life one way or the other. :idea::idea:


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

This has been going on for a couple of years now and just got gassed up here today, it'll settle down again before it's over so rather than try it here lets just wait and see what the courts say since that's what we pay them for. We would all appreciate that courtesy I'm sure.


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## Txcutter2 (Feb 17, 2009)

kpolley said:


> Remember that market hunting/commericialization of wildlife is what caused the near extinction of wildlife in most of North America. Many organizations have worked hard to restore these species to what we enjoy today. I can tell you no one has a "bullseye " on his back. People who take overlimits or double dip are poachers and should be prosecuted. The fact that a person exploits wildlife for personal gain adds an additional element that is considered in prosecution. I'm glad the feds are involved and I hope they swing for the fence. Bottome line - don't do the crime if you're not willing to do the time!!!


Couldn't have said it better HANG HIM HIGH and let him never see the sky he took advantage of again. He had a job every duck hunter dreams of and he screwed the pooch royally.


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## Paul Kartes (Jun 29, 2006)

Saw this on a waterfowl forum, from my understanding this is from the camplaint against him :

"In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES . . . drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars were at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands and neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter. "


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

Any of you remember Noel Feather, Don Lewis???


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## Trapper (Jun 6, 2009)

Doc E said:


> Paragraph 24 of the Indictment:
> 
> In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES . . . drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars were at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands and neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter.
> 
> ...


I'm speachless...


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

You know, I used to be at city parks and see the bands and wonder if I could get one off a goose, some how catch it take the band off and let it go, damn I should have just used a pellet gun!!!!

Also saw some Pintatils in teh San Diego area a few years ago at the zoo that would have made a nice mount, could just about walk right up to one, but some how the thought of a Band from a goose at a city park, or a mount taken off the sidewalk at a zoo just doesn't seem like a trophy as much as a lesser mount, or a lesser number of bands taken the hard way.....


Maybe he got caught up in thinking that the idea of hunting was numbers and numbers a lone, he forgot, or never learned that hunting, to borrow a line fomr Ken Bora's sig. is about being there, not about the getting one..... some of the best "shots" and the ones I am most proud of were taken with a camara, some of the best memories are "screw ups" that we let something get away, or calling in something that was out of season or zone, just to do it.

Don't know him personally, have watched videos he made, but other then that wouldn't know him from adam. It disappoints me that someone with such a high profile didn't go out of his way to do things the right way, and it reminds me that our best role models are likely in the blind next to us as kids. I hope he gets what he has coming, and maybe it will prevent someone less high profile from doin gthe same.


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## pixel shooter (Mar 6, 2010)

Someone was looking for the link for the full details of the indictment. here you go.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/Indictment.pdf


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Don Schlaf said:


> Bad news in my back yard right now. There's buzz on the Utah forums right now about this video. Right around 2:30 the guy on the far left fires 4 times :-x . Word on the street is he is a "Foiles" pro-staffer. I don't know him personally......word is the video has been sent to the Fed's and the Utah DWR already.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC_DnoL6Ys4


Steering clear of the commentary on the Foiles stuff, I saw the Browning Maxxus marketing plug at about 4:40 on the video. I hope that every hunter's safety instructor and graduate would agree that this is flat-out unsafe. 

The speed with which a flip of a switch chambers a live round is exactly why the "magazine cutoff" should be considered a mechanical device and not a valid workaround for adherence to basic gun safety. Mechanical devices not only "can" but "do" fail. 

While unlikely, it is possible for that guy crossing the fence to bump the wrong lever, or some other combination of mechanical failures take place to cause an accidental discharge. 

Gun safety should be followed 100%.

Chris


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Interestingly, the docket for the Foilles case includes another sealed indictment and yet a third document which is sealed but not described. It's unclear whether that this is related to the Foilles case proper or to the sealed indictment.

Eric


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Don Schlaf said:


> Bad news in my back yard right now. There's buzz on the Utah forums right now about this video. Right around 2:30 the guy on the far left fires 4 times :-x . Word on the street is he is a "Foiles" pro-staffer. I don't know him personally......word is the video has been sent to the Fed's and the Utah DWR already.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC_DnoL6Ys4


Well at least they were smart enough to delete it from YouTube, unfortunately, the Internet never forgets.


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)




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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Rudd said:


> Can't float the 4th in my SBE II.


I quick mod will fix that.


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## Chris Miller (Dec 16, 2005)

kjrice said:


> I quick mod will fix that.


Not that Kevin knows or anything.


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

You can do it with a credit card or even a match book. When I get back home I will take a video.


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## Brad (Aug 4, 2009)

JTS said:


> JB Weld in the notch.......instant 4 shooter.......
> 
> Everclear soaked cheetos works better than the pellet gun on the park geese.....
> 
> just some more law breaking thoughts......


What is your address?


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Chris Miller said:


> Not that Kevin knows or anything.


I fly straight with my SBE but the mod was stated.


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

http://tinyurl.com/4r4yhfc


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## fetchingfloyd (Apr 18, 2010)

HuntinDawg said:


> I hadn't heard that about the Beretta, and with the Benelli I thought it was only the older ones.


i also didnt know beretta had that capability but i do know benelli "fixed" their issue and its only older models that can have 4 shell with a plug in.


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## davidtbateman (Feb 10, 2010)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> LOL. You obviously haven't been around enough crooked game wardens. Believe you me, they can & will come up with bogus tickets just because they're dbags.


Typical response from someone from Monroe LA. Not saying the crookedness doesnt exist on both sides of the law, just sayin typical response. 

Limits are their for a reason, I definently think everyone should stop at their limit. However, there are extinuating circumstances that reasonable game wardens need to take into effect. For example if someone shot their limit of ducks one day and were walking back to the truck and found another cripple that jumped from the edge of the tank. Do you shoot it and have excess to your limit, with your moral reason being to conserve the game shot? Do you let it lie and allow for natural predators to take the wounded bird?

Reasonable communication makes for reasonable decisions on both sides of the law.


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## Joseph Kendrick (Mar 19, 2010)

There is no gray area for game laws. If you shoot that criple then you are over your limit. 

There is a lake about 30 miles from my house. Largemouth Bass slot limit is 13-17 inches. I hooked and landed a 16 inch fish. Put the hook right through side gill and tore it up pretty bad. I cut the hook in half and put the fish back into the water. Of course it is belly up. Game Warden pulls right in behind me, takes the fish out of the water, measures it and says good think you did not keep this fish cause I would have had to given you a ticket. I told him it was a heck of a note to have to throw a dead fish back. His response was, it is illegal to have a fish dead or alive in your posession that is in the slot.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

davidtbateman said:


> . . . Do you shoot it and have excess to your limit, with your moral reason being to conserve the game shot? Do you let it lie and allow for natural predators to take the wounded bird?
> . . . .


Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.


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## thebigcat (Feb 17, 2010)

It appears Canada isn't too happy with Mr. Foiles either...

“Fallin’ Skies” duck hunter Jeff Foiles entered a not guilty plea Thursday to a 23-count indictment accusing him of violating federal wildlife laws.

Moments later, Foiles learned he would be facing charges in Canada, too.

He appeared before U.S. Magistrate Judge Byron Cudmore in Springfield Thursday to answer charges he regularly killed ducks and geese in excess of legal limits as part of his guiding and video production businesses.

As he left the courtroom, Foiles was served with a summons to appear in court in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on April 5, the same day his trial is scheduled to start here.

Details of the charges brought by Environment Canada were not immediately available.

In the United States, Foiles is charged with conspiracy to violate federal laws against transporting or selling wildlife taken illegally, killing ducks and geese in excess of legal limits and keeping false records.

The indictment says Foiles routinely allowed customers to kill more birds than allowed and falsified records.

Some hunts where limits were exceeded were included in hunting videos, the indictment says.

According to the indictment, “the main purpose of the conspiracy was to enrich Foiles through the collection of guiding fees, tips and proceeds from video sales and sponsorship agreements.”

On Oct. 9, 2004, the indictment alleges Foiles guided a goose hunt in Canada during which participants killed about 20 Canada geese over the sum of the hunters’ individual daily bag limits.

“When the cameraman became upset at the number of geese being killed and shut off the camera, Foiles order him to continue filming,” the indictment says.

As part of Foiles’ bond agreement, he agreed to give up firearms for personal use kept at his home, including those owned by family members living with him.

As a holder of a federal firearms license, he can still display and sell firearms at his business if they are already are in stock. However, he won’t be allowed to buy or trade for any additional firearms while legal proceedings are ongoing.

As part of his guiding business, he also cannot possess a firearm in the field.

Foiles’ attorney asked that Foiles be allowed to continue to use firearms while guiding, especially to help clients with their guns.

Cudmore denied the request.
“He should be able to modify his business,” Cudmore said, repeating that he is making an exception for Foiles’ retail business and allowing him to keep his “recreational archery equipment.”

“I am moving substantially below my usual restrictions,” he said. “It is a large deviation from what I usually put into place.”

Chris McCloud, spokesman for the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, said no action will be taken against Foiles’ Illinois hunting privileges unless he is convicted.

“Only then do we assess what points are to be entered into the database,” McCloud said.


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## J.D. Penn (Feb 3, 2010)

As part of his guiding business, he also cannot possess a firearm in the field.

Foiles’ attorney asked that Foiles be allowed to continue to use firearms while guiding, especially to help clients with their guns.

Cudmore denied the request.
“He should be able to modify his business,” Cudmore said, repeating that he is making an exception for Foiles’ retail business and allowing him to keep his “recreational archery equipment.”

“I am moving substantially below my usual restrictions,” he said. “It is a large deviation from what I usually put into place.”


This part really pisses me off. It is apparent that because his name is so big that he is already getting special treatment.


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## Gawthorpe (Oct 4, 2007)

After reading all 35 pages on the indictment I am surprised that Colorado is not pressing charges at the state level. 

Congratulations to him for coining a new term "Parking"


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

thebigcat said:


> “When the cameraman became upset at the number of geese being killed and shut off the camera, Foiles order him to continue filming,” the indictment says.
> 
> .


I don't know if this would qualify for an insanity defense..................................................................................................but, if true, I certainly think it would leave no doubt as to Mr Foiles status as a DUMB ASS!!!!


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

ducks_n_bucks01 said:


> As part of his guiding business, he also cannot possess a firearm in the field.
> 
> Foiles’ attorney asked that Foiles be allowed to continue to use firearms while guiding, especially to help clients with their guns.
> 
> ...


Not sure how that would be possible as aiding in a hunt for others is not legal unless you hold a valid hunting license. I was informed of this rule when I asked a warden if I could be in the spread or walk for pheasants with family and friends in other states where I did not want to purchase an out of state license. I was informed that if you help pick up the birds, have a dog that you own or even blow a call is considered assisting in harvesting of game even if you do not carry a firearm.


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## Brad Slaybaugh (May 17, 2005)

TroyFeeken said:


> Not sure how that would be possible as aiding in a hunt for others is not legal unless you hold a valid hunting license. I was informed of this rule when I asked a warden if I could be in the spread or walk for pheasants with family and friends in other states where I did not want to purchase an out of state license. I was informed that if you help pick up the birds, have a dog that you own or even blow a call is considered assisting in harvesting of game even if you do not carry a firearm.


As long as he has a valid hunting license, I think he can do every thing but shoot or handle a gun per the judges orders.

Brad


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## 25-ott-06 (Mar 7, 2009)

Travis Woods, Foiles Pro-staffer. He committed suicide jan 25. He was recently involved in a posting on the refuge where in his video he posted, somebody was floating a 4th shell and the gun clearly fired 4 times. Insults started to pile up and along with the Foiles incidents, may have been too much for him to bear. Very sad for his family..


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## J.D. Penn (Feb 3, 2010)

Gawthorpe said:


> After reading all 35 pages on the indictment I am surprised that Colorado is not pressing charges at the state level.
> 
> Congratulations to him for coining a new term "Parking"


Maybe I am wrong or maybe he was charged, but wouldn't using the bread be baiting.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

25-ott-06 said:


> Travis Woods, Foiles Pro-staffer. He committed suicide jan 25. He was recently involved in a posting on the refuge where in his video he posted, somebody was floating a 4th shell and the gun clearly fired 4 times. Insults started to pile up and along with the Foiles incidents, may have been too much for him to bear. Very sad for his family..


This truly is too bad. Unfortunately I'm sure there were some underlying problems with his personal life. It's also unfortunate that he left behind a family to grieve his loss.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

ducks_n_bucks01 said:


> Maybe I am wrong or maybe he was charged, but wouldn't using the bread be baiting.


Could be various charges available. Baiting, taking of game with a single projectile (bb gun), discharging a weapon within city limits.... etc.


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## Zekeland (Jun 5, 2006)

Here's a little update on the Canadian charges laid the past couple of days.....

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/American+hunter+faces+charges+Canada/4207094/story.html


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## tim bonnema (Jul 3, 2010)

most pellet guns fire a lead projectile also.


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## Brad Slaybaugh (May 17, 2005)

Wow, he has to be in court in Canada and Il on the same day, and the punishment for the canadian charges are even worse than the american ones. 

Seems like the skies are really fallin now !!!!!

Brad


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