# Good Dog Work or Too Dangerous For You



## RailRoadRetrievers (Feb 4, 2004)

Thoughts......

This was posted on another site I frequent, commenters gave mixed reviews. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjRninh4vyc&feature=related


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## redraider (Oct 12, 2011)

No way I'd send my dog into that.


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## Hairy Dawg (Mar 8, 2009)

Here's my take on it. Would I send my dog into that? Not a chance. If I lived close to that, and hunted there often, I would definitely train a dog that would do that.


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## Jim Person (Jan 5, 2003)

Yeah that would be a bit much for my liking. Even when shooting eiders in a better conditions, I only want to shoot one bird and make damn sure it was dead. Having a dog chasing a cripple out to sea in that is very dangerous....


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

Wouldn't even think about doing that!! I just watched the first 30-45 seconds of that video and turned it off. Didn't have to watch anymore to know that I wouldn't even think about it


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

Wow! That is all I can say after watching that.....Wow!


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## robertnla (Oct 16, 2008)

Not a chance in hell would I send anybody's dog out in that much less mine.


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## MattC (Oct 10, 2011)

Wow. There's no way I'd send either of my dogs into that. That's way too dangerous for my taste. I love my animals way too much to see them drown in front of me. Good dog work, but dangerous, and ignorant of the handler.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

I'd love to experience an Eider shoot sometime. 

I used to think my dogs were bulletproof. I've found out firsthand that they are not. 

That final bit of video could have easily ended in an exhausted dog getting his head knocked on the rock with one of those waves. Once there's an unconscious dog in the water, there are some pretty unpleasant decisions to make.


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## MattC (Oct 10, 2011)

Amen Chris. You said it in "I used to think my dogs were bulletproof. I've found out firsthand that they are not". If you wouldn't let your dog suffer heat exhaustion then why let them suffer from exhaustion in the water which could lead to catastrophe? Dogs are tough, but if you wouldn't go out there then your dog prolly shouldn't either.

I would also like to experience an eider shoot. Just not under those circumstances, and definitely wouldn't be sending anyone's dog in after an eider under those circumstances.


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## RailRoadRetrievers (Feb 4, 2004)

So have owners evolved over the years in the way our retrievers are used or their care? Meaning, is this any more dangerous than dogs retrieving heavy fishing nets in waters more rough? What about other dangerous terrain? How else do you retrieve your downed birds? Looked like a good hole.

The dogs didn't seem to mind the work at all.....

Don't get me wrong, there is no way in hell I am going into that water to put out the decoys, so I am not sending my dogs in there either, but just wondering......


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## Col Blimp (Jun 20, 2011)

That's what wild, natural, sport is all about.

To those unfamiliar with coastal wildfowling it does look a bit dodgy, but to me it's a tribute to the skill, determination, experience and hardihood of both the hunters and the dogs. Two of mine I would not send in, but one fellow could manage it well enough given a bit of experience.

Quand le vin est tiré, il faut le boire!

Eug


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## MattC (Oct 10, 2011)

In my opinion (not bashing anyone), I think owners have evolved in a bad way. I think modern day, people tend to send their dogs in worse terrain than they used to. Dogs aren't bulletproof. If you wouldn't run in that terrain then your dog shouldn't be. No matter what the condition.


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## MattC (Oct 10, 2011)

Col Blimp said:


> That's what wild, natural, sport is all about.
> 
> To those unfamiliar with coastal wildfowling it does look a bit dodgy, but to me it's a tribute to the skill, determination, experience and hardihood of both the hunters and the dogs. Two of mine I would not send in, but one fellow could manage it well enough.
> 
> ...


Would you wade in that water?


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## Waterdogs (Jan 20, 2006)

That was pretty cool Video. I have hunted some pretty bad stuff but nothing with that big of waves. I can't judge what others do. That being a long standing tradition for several of my friends that is a normal hunt for them. I would be a little nerved sending a dog knowing they had to come into those rocks though. That does look like some fun shooting.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Only if my dog has dewclaws, so he could climb those slippery rocks.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Wow! I got chills watching that. The things that these dogs can do will never cease to amaze me. I wouldn't send my dogs into that but I don't hunt that every day. If I lived in that area I'm sure I would be doing things much differently. I do think there is a difference between a true working dog and a pet that hunts. Someone said something about not being able to wade in the water, isn't that kind of the point? If you can walk out and get the bird yourself the dog is just a time saver. Those dogs are doing what they do because it's to dangerous for the people to retrieve the birds themselves. 

AMAZING!


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

I have to agree with Blimp. That clip is a great testament to the skill and determination of the dogs and hunters. I would have put a vest on my dog just to help him out a bit though. It's apparent from all the threads on alligators that we all have different threshholds on where and when we wend our dogs to work. What one sees as dangerous others see as acceptable. 
Or course a long handle dip net could get the ducks too as the waves wash them towards the hunters. I wouldn't want to be the one to pick up those decoys!


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## Socks (Nov 13, 2008)

One of the persons that posted that posted on the forum where I first saw it. He said that they train the dogs for it and rotate them out frequently. They also said that some dogs have it and some don't. When the dog doesn't have it they don't use that particular dog.

After seeing that I had serious reservations, but if the dog is trained up for it and proper care is taken I won't say it's right or wrong. I will say there's no way I'd send my dog into that.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

No way I would. Why not wait a sec and the birds will wash up wouldn't they? You could have a long net like a pool cleaning net to scoop them up


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## RailRoadRetrievers (Feb 4, 2004)

Cripples, I mean I never have cripples but what do you do about those

Achiro, I set decoys up in wading water, but can't retrieve all the birds due to depth and drop offs.


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## MarkinMissouri (Aug 29, 2010)

I think it's primarily a question of how close to the edge do you (and your dogs) want to live? Tremendous adrenaline rush but at great potential risk. I was once caught in between angry waves and rocks not near as intimidating as that. Lucky to get out with cuts and bruises. For me (and my dogs) I will live a bit further back from the edge. 

Amazing video that makes me think of the professional hunters and fishermen of yore. Not the ones covered with sponsor ads but the ones who put out to sea because they had to feed their families even if conditions weren't good.


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## Dustin D (Jan 12, 2012)

RailRoadRetrievers said:


> Good Dog Work or Too Dangerous For You?


Both.

They did what they were trained to do = Good Dog Work
I have no need for a dog to do such as that = Too Dangerous for me

I can surely admire the hard work and desire that must be running through the veins of those dogs. 
They didn't look the least bit intimidated.

If that was my only way to hunt I suppose I'd need a dog to do that.


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## metalone67 (Apr 3, 2009)

To me it seems the dogs handled that water very well and knew just how to ride the waves to push them up on the rocks.
Look at those dogs they are super fit and I bet all their training is done in that kind of water. I'm just amazed at how diverse the lab is to do their job no matter what.
I have good swimmers and I wouldn't send them into that.


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## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

Not a chance. For starters we have absolutely NOTHING like that around here as far as hunting terrain goes so NONE of the dogs that I am aware of get exposed to anything even remotely close to that kind of scene. It might be a totally different story if that is where I lived and that was the norm for dogs in that area that have been trained and bred for that kind of situation. As for the vid, I would bet that isnt' the first time that particular dog has done that and I would also venture a guess that he has been trained in that environment.

Weren't Chessies originally bred for those kind of conditions? Just an honest question, not trying to start anything here.


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

That's incredible. Great display of marking for the dogs to be able to work through the waves in route to the bird. It was notable to me that the dog at the end was wagging his tail as he came out. Obviously they love their work.

Would I send my dog? He is fearless and a very strong swimmer but, no. We don't train for those conditions and I'm not going to ask him to do something I haven't prepared him to do.


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## terrax (Sep 1, 2011)

To my way of thinking, it's not the heavy seas that would stop me from sending my dog but the fact that there is no easy exit that is not dangerous where the dog could easily get injured. 
As far as getting exhausted by going too far, a well trained dog should be able to be called off the hunt so as long as the owner knows his dog and doesn't push the limits there should be no problems.


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## Pudelpointer (Jul 27, 2010)

I would not send a dog into those conditions, yea, the dogs look happy doing it and it looks great until one gets smashed onto the rocks a drowns, if you saw that would you still say that is what they are bred to do? NOT!


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## Mistyriver (May 19, 2005)

Wow... All I can say is amazing. Did you noticed not one dog dropped a bird even getting crashed by the waves!


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

1st the dog work was quite incredible. I have hunted a lot of stuff with dogs but nothing like that. As Chris said the only issue I have is what happens if the worst happens? Go in after the dog? Then what go after the guy that went in. I will only risk my dogs if I can get to them. I have had to go in and help a dog that could not get back up on the ice and stuff like in this vid could get in a bad way in a hurry. So as to the OP's question I would have to pass.


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

I wouldn't, but I'm pretty sentimental about my dogs and don't believe in testing them to the limit of their physical abilities. We don't hunt dove until very late in the afternoon in the early season (don't want to kill one with the heat), don't hunt ducks in any pond that I haven't recently scouted very well for gators, and don't hunt big open water. Now that I have been told that gators are fine with salt water, probably won't hunt the bay anymore either. 
But don't dogs that run bears get mauled by the bears sometimes and what about the pig dogs? Surely they get injured on a fairly regular basis. Some people just feel differently about their dogs than others. I don't understand how folks can leave their dogs with a trainer for most of the time either. I want to be able to run my hands through their coat and rub their ears and see their tails wag, but that's just me.


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## Jason Vinson (Apr 1, 2009)

I hunt the backwaters of the Mississippi river and that video makes me feel silly for putting vest and what not on my dogs!!


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

I answered the same question a few days ago on another forum. Nothing has been posted that changed my mind. 

_



WOULD YOU LET YOUR RETRIEVER DO THIS?

Click to expand...

Well, I watched the video (a couple of times) and thought about it. My answer is....yes. Before anyone "jumps" on this answer, here are my reasons. The first is probably the most important. The rocky shore is not made up of sharp edges. Secondly, I've seen dogs that run big "cats" and/or "bears". That is much more dangerous. Those dogs are bred and trained to deal with it. Of course, it's dangerous and certainly has a high risk factor. A retriever's genetics have "old relatives" that worked the sea. Big water is not a big deal. 

Most everyone I know has a vested, very personl interest in their dogs. *Trained properly, tempered with experience, makes them capable to do exactly what is shown in this video. I think these hunters are well within their own guidelines as to how necessary and doable that hunt is.* 

It may sound a little "corny", but I'd be willing to bet they love their dogs just as much as we do ours. 

If you look at other videos and dog work in open sea hunting like they do in the northeast, big water is very different than most backwater marsh hunts. I do some diver hunting in the open areas of the Mississippi River. The waves I see in this video are way bigger than any I would ever attempt to tackle. My dogs would be alright, but I don't have a boat big enough to handle that kind of hunting. 

In conclusion, the dogs in the video do not seem stressed out and appear to be very capable and confident. Their actions simply say, "This is what I do.....and I like it"._


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## Andrew Fairchild (May 19, 2011)

There's no way I would ask my dog to do that. Even though the video is in 
Spanish, it's a true testimony to how loyal and determined dogs are to their owners. They do whatever is asked of them without expecting any in return. That can't be a whole lot of fun to the dog, and is extremely risky. It also shows the skills a retriever has. I would like to see one of us stand on the edge of the rock without getting washed out to see. Scary but awesome video!


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## WhackndStack6 (Aug 10, 2011)

I believe this should get chalked up as how well do you know your dog. These guys seem very knowlegable and experienced as do the dogs. I personally would not throw my lab in those conditions.


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## Peter G Lippert (Mar 26, 2011)

I am thoroughly impressed with the dogs ability while being smashed into the rocks by the waves. Wow! I am not so impressed with the owner. I have known guys like this who view there dogs as hunting gear or a tool to be used when they see fit. I don't get it.


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

You know, as much as I wouldn't let MY dog do that, I bet that up to a point anyway, it is fun for the dogs. We used to body surf all the time when I was growing up and couldn't find a wave that was too big. Great fun even when you got tossed and tumbled.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

It's a neat video. I don't feel qualified to answer because I'm much more casual about hunting and that looks pretty hard core to me; and my dogs are pets that hunt, not true working dogs. I imagine for a young, fit (as in willing to wade in if needed) hardcore waterfowler with dogs trained and experienced in those conditions, hunts like that would be all in a day's work. As someone else pointed out, the dogs sure look happy and confident.

Interesting to note that the further south the respondents in this thread live, the more adamant they are about no & he!! no!


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

That's good dog work


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

mngundog said:


> That's good dog work


x2 !

..........


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## Col Blimp (Jun 20, 2011)

*Matt C* asked


> Would you wade in that water?


Nope, that's what the dogs are there for. 

For the same reason I don't run up and down Welsh hills forty and fifty times a day, jump stone walls or crawl through bramble thickets. To me that dog looked pretty cool with what was going on; no panicky movements or distress, just a strong old boy who knows how to work the waves and was havibg a good time.

Eug


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## Lee Jones (Mar 19, 2011)

Both. Great dog work but no duck is worth that!


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## hughest (Oct 5, 2007)

Yeah, I'm on the side of not just no, but hell no! That is so scary to me. It is good dog work - and the dogs look happy and in good shape. But still, it give me chills.


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## MattC (Oct 10, 2011)

Col Blimp said:


> *Matt C* asked Nope, that's what the dogs are there for.
> 
> For the same reason I don't run up and down Welsh hills forty and fifty times a day, jump stone walls or crawl through bramble thickets. To me that dog looked pretty cool with what was going on; no panicky movements or distress, just a strong old boy who knows how to work the waves and was havibg a good time.
> 
> Eug


If you wouldn't go in that water then why would you put your dog in there? I've never seen or heard of a dog dying in a bramble or a patch of thorns. I've heard of many drowning swimming in water just like that. To each his own. I love my dogs too much to watch one drown because I wanted a duck while I stand back and watch. A duck isn't worth dying over. Dogs or people.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Yes-good dog work-only because it shows what these dogs will do for us when asked. Would I ever put my dog in that situation-NO WAY!
I dont even want my dogs swimming in the ocean when we go to the beach. Not only the wave /rock risk, but what about critters that are bigger than they are ? Sharks, big sea lions,etc.... no thanks. I love my dogs too much.


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## Mallard Mugger (Jul 29, 2009)

Would I put my dog in? No, but only because he is not trained for it and I don't know if he would have the heart for it. It takes a special dog to do that, IMHO. I'd have to train for it and determine the dogs attitude toward those conditions. I believe Kwicklabs nailed it on the head.

Also, I think it was posted that these dogs were trained, selected, and rotated quite frequently.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. HELL NO that I'm going to put my dog in where there are possible gators and snakes, then again, I live in WI and I don't have a background with those situations. Do I hunt around ice, HELL YES, but we're use to that. JMHO


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Yup, real hunting. I have sent my dogs into Cook Inlet when the waves have been like that. They had no problems and were constantly looking for more ducks. We don't have the rocky shoreline so I'd like to get the dogs used to it but I think doable.


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## east tx hoghunt (Jul 20, 2011)

Not for me... But a heck of a way to check your pile work. Those dogs are awesome!!!


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

Those dogs must love those guys. If I was their dog I would pee on their leg and go wait by the truck!


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Howard N said:


> Yup, real hunting. I have sent my dogs into Cook Inlet when the waves have been like that. They had no problems and were constantly looking for more ducks. We don't have the rocky shoreline so I'd like to get the dogs used to it but I think doable.


I don't see a big problem with the waves. Plenty of dogs swim surf non-stop and deal with that. The waves breaking on the rocks are a little nerve racking. Looks like the dog knows what he's got to do to ride it out. I did notice the location didn't have any ankle breakers and the other side was gradual beach. 

I've hunted the Columbia many times in areas world famous for wind surfing....waves are bigger but, the beach is more like the shots you see without the rocks.


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## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

Howard N said:


> Yup, real hunting. I have sent my dogs into Cook Inlet when the waves have been like that. They had no problems and were constantly looking for more ducks. We don't have the rocky shoreline so I'd like to get the dogs used to it but I think doable.


Agree with the above. 

That kind of hunting depicted in the video is far less dangerous than hunting a moving river with log jams or ice shelves where the dogs can get pulled under with the current. 

I think the video was a fairly slick production complete with the dramatic music to make the conditions look a bit more dangerous and extreme than they really were.;-)

I certainly wouldn't throw a young, inexperienced dog into that scenario without first getting them used to those conditions with shorter retrieves but overall, any strong,healthy, experienced retriever with average desire would be in no particular danger with that type of hunting.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

1st retriever said:


> Those dogs must love those guys. If I was their dog I would pee on their leg and go wait by the truck!


Then you wouldn't get to go hunting. Think these dogs would rather retrieve ducks or wait by a truck?


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## MattC (Oct 10, 2011)

Howard N said:


> Then you wouldn't get to go hunting. Think these dogs would rather retrieve ducks or wait by a truck?


Depends on if they're going to get crushed into rocks. I'm sure that if dogs could talk they'd rather wait by the truck than die.

Ducks just aren't worth dying (dogs or people) to me. I was put in a situation in big waves in which my boat was almost swamped. The waves were coming over the sides and the transom and throwing our big boat around. Being on a large lake in conditions like that was close enough to death I would like to ever come just to get a duck. My life & my dog's life was greater than the ducks that day. We waited it out till daylight in a sheltered cove after letting the waves carry us in to shore. I pushed the boat back into the cove walking along the shore getting pounded by waves. We did kill a goose that day right at first light, so I guess we still got to do a little hunting. We left ASAP though. Ducks weren't worth our lives that day and, to me, I would rather stay at home with my dog in my lap then put him in a situation where he runs a chance at dying on every retrieve. Ice, moving water, logs, thickets, are different than big waves and rocky shores.

To each his own.


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

MattC said:


> Depends on if they're going to get crushed into rocks. I'm sure that if dogs could talk they'd rather wait by the truck than die.
> 
> Ducks just aren't worth dying (dogs or people) to me.
> 
> To each his own.


Exactly!
Too short


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Probably what I get for being the son of an old sailboat commercial fisherman. We went out in all weather and set/worked the nets. (I am of the powerboat era, however)

You should have seen my dad taking his entire family out across the inlet when others wouldn't leave the shore. He just did it, didn't make anything of it, just normally going about doing what needed to be done. I never thought of danger, I don't think he did either.

I guess I just expect the dogs to go out in any weather and work just like I do.


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

Howard N said:


> Probably what I get for being the son of an old sailboat commercial fisherman. We went out in all weather and set/worked the nets. (I am of the powerboat era, however)
> 
> You should have seen my dad taking his entire family out across the inlet when others wouldn't leave the shore. He just did it, didn't make anything of it, just normally going about doing what needed to be done. I never thought of danger, I don't think he did either.
> 
> I guess I just expect the dogs to go out in any weather and work just like I do.


You have to do what you have to do with what you have. That just isn't the norm for us to see those kind of conditions. They probably look at the way we hunt here and think it is child's play. BUT, if I had a choice and knew there was a safer way to hunt with my dog I wouldn't do it.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

1st retriever said:


> You have to do what you have to do with what you have. That just isn't the norm for us to see those kind of conditions. They probably look at the way we hunt here and think it is child's play. BUT, if I had a choice and knew there was a safer way to hunt with my dog I wouldn't do it.


 
I saw hunters on the Missouri River running dogs on ducks in white-capped waves, winds at 70mph when I was out there? Looked similar to me. The part of the river I saw was all stumps and trees sticking out of the River at various depths. 

Are you sure it isn't because you don't really get out duck hunting often?


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm with Howard. I've taken my dogs to the Great Lakes when we get a chance, they LOVE the waves and it is amazing to see how quickly they adjust and figure out the rhythms and are able to actually find anything with waves that high. That video was made to be dramatic. It was pretty cool to see a group of really good looking yeller dogs working like they knew it and loved it and I won't jump on the bandwagon that those hunters were any more careless than anyone else with dogs they've raised & trained. I get the heebie jeebies thinking of dogs in water where there's gators, where that's a way of life for others.


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## Adam DeLancey (Feb 18, 2011)

Not a chance I would send my dog out into that I most likely would not even hunt if I had to hunt a place like that


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

My dogs mean to much to me to do that to them!!!


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## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Are you sure it isn't because you don't really get out duck hunting often?


X2 

While the video may look extreme and dangerous to the uninitiated and inexperienced, there is nothing that would pose any inordinate danger to a well trained, healthy, experienced retriever.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I'd love to experience an Eider shoot sometime.
> 
> I used to think my dogs were bulletproof. I've found out firsthand that they are not.
> 
> That final bit of video could have easily ended in an exhausted dog getting his head knocked on the rock with one of those waves. Once there's an unconscious dog in the water, there are some pretty unpleasant decisions to make.


Exactly!! I wonder which one of those big ole hunters was ready to go swimming?

The ending was pretty scary.


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> I saw goose hunters on the Missouri River running dogs on ducks in white-capped waves, winds at 70mph when I was out there? Looked similar to me. The part of the river I saw was all stumps and trees sticking out of the River at various depths.
> 
> Are you sure it isn't because you don't really get out duck hunting often?


Doesn't matter if I get out or not. I wouldn't send my dog into anything I wouldn't go in. I can't comment on what you saw other than to say I wouldn't doubt it. lol


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Are you sure it isn't because you don't really get out duck hunting often?



I have hunted both the Missouri and Mississippi and Illinois rivers since I was 10. I know the river kills a few hunters every year. Myself and hunting party have had a number of close calls for the hunters. I dont hunt as hard as I used to because now I look for quality not quantity. To each his own. I dont condemn those guys or the hunt on the vid but to me and my animals its not worth it. I also been quail hunting that the brush was to tough and they used young mexican boys to retrieve so the dogs did not get tore up. Did not think that was to cool either.... But I only hunt 30-45 days a year for the past 35 years so I am getting there;-)


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

1st retriever said:


> Doesn't matter if I get out or not. I wouldn't send my dog into anything I wouldn't go in. I can't comment on what you saw other than to say I wouldn't doubt it. lol


Do you train or exercise your dogs next to prarie dog towns in South Dakota?


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## LokiMeister (Jan 15, 2010)

Sure, if he's trained for it, why not? He would love it. People who have trained for the conditions could do the same thing. It's all about the training.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

Duck season on the upper Mississippi river is an adventure. Opening day, the boat ramps are literally "swamped" with hunters and the parking lots are full. The duck camp I hunt out of has about 35 trailers parked specifically for duck season. The first few weekends everyone is there plus their friends. The usual complaint is about mosquitoes. 

Soon it becomes "less" fun. It gets colder and physically challenging. Weather (wind, cold and ice) become the issues. That does not take into account wary ducks and less shooting. Hunting becomes more dangerous. Most won't deal with it and quit. When the river starts to freeze up, camp is occupied by only a few of us. For me, that's when it really becomes *duck hunting*. 

I understand the expressed concern for dogs not being "bullet proof". Sometimes I think dog owners over-compensate and seek a "padded room" mentality so that nothing could possibly go wrong. The easiest way to avoid "situations" is to not do anything to the point of paralysis. 

Risks are part of life, but accidents are the failure to anticipate the possible. The concept of "hardcore hunting" is from a different perspective. It does require heightened awareness and preparation which many find foreign. In conclusion, everyone has choices. Many are emotionally driven by the never ending "what if? syndrome. The one comment that seems to "stick in my craw" the most is the one that if I really cared about my dogs they wouldn't be treated like "just another piece of gear". 

I really appreciated Howard's comments. My how times change have changed. 

In the past, I have discovered many would not approve of the following hunting situation, so it is not surprising the Spanish retriever video brought out many, many more "no" responses. 

*Daisy simply breaking ice for a retrieve*


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

I'd never send my dog into that surf (especially for a d*#% Eider). I wonder how they would ever get to the dog if he got into trouble?


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> Do you train or exercise your dogs next to prarie dog towns in South Dakota?


Actually no I do not. Why does everything come back to me? Others have said the same thing but yet here we go.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Jim,,, the ice you sent your dog through is very thin. I don't have a problem with that. I am from Wisconsin... 

I also don't have a problem with you sending your dog through thicker ice as long as you have a plan to get your dog safely back to shore when your hunting expedition should turn south for your dog.

Angie


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

Angie, as soon as I read "I'm from Wisconsin." I knew where you were going. 

Thanks!


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

My dog has so far proven to be a good dog. 
He is "High Octane" and it seems his only fear so far is not pleasing me enough.

If I would send him into a situation like that I know he would jump. There would be no guessing on his part, no hesitation, no fear. 

All I have to say is I better be darn ready to do the same if he needs me too.


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## David Lo Buono (Apr 6, 2005)

Those of us who hunt the coast know its takes a special dog with a ton of bottom to cut it day in and day out....

Hunting sea ducks in 3' 4' swells, white caps with the wind blowing the tops off them is quite the norm...Some dogs do it...some don't.....I've got plenty of video of my dog busting through 3' chop chasing crippled divers...Rough seas don't bother the dog

Couple things about the video........I'm 110% positive these guys lose TONS of cripples...If you look, the dogs are retrieving stone dead birds no more 35yds out...A daunting task it those seas no doubt But, they are not chasing cripples with much success in those seas........The rocks concern me a bit, as was eluded to one smack of the head and you've got a serious situation! Not to mention the myriad of other possible injuries......Would I do it with my dog...YEP


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## Dave Burton (Mar 22, 2006)

Chris Atkinson said:


> I'd love to experience an Eider shoot sometime.
> 
> I used to think my dogs were bulletproof. I've found out firsthand that they are not.
> 
> That final bit of video could have easily ended in an exhausted dog getting his head knocked on the rock with one of those waves. Once there's an unconscious dog in the water, there are some pretty unpleasant decisions to make.


Hit me up next yr, I have an awesome guide I go with up in Maine.


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

HPL said:


> You know, as much as I wouldn't let MY dog do that, I bet that up to a point anyway, it is fun for the dogs. We used to body surf all the time when I was growing up and couldn't find a wave that was too big. Great fun even when you got tossed and tumbled.


Harry your right 
I've shot nisqaully flats with big tides 14.7 and blowing 50 and that's when the real heart of of the retriever is shown 
Pyzon loved it in his prime. 
Chris A. He's 9.5 and toast retired completely now from over working him. Hell he's the mighty pyzon. Well that don't last long. lesson learned.
I don't have a problem sending a dog into the big stuff as long as I know its pretty safe. And that looked safe. Them boys weren't new to that spot.
I hunted w/a pot head a while ago and never been to this spot it was foggy in the mourning and the river looked fast couldn't tell. we shot a goose that ended up in the water and couldn't tell if it was safe. So I called it and let it go "get it later" when fog cleared it was safe and pot head only could say I would of sent my dog. Well he's a dump butt 
Be honest and know your mutt try not to kill em 
I've been close a couple times and it ain't fun anymore.

Shoot in the beek a good dog trainer told me 
I'm not that good I told him


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## RaeganW (Jan 1, 2011)

RailRoadRetrievers said:


> So have owners evolved over the years in the way our retrievers are used or their care? Meaning, is this any more dangerous than dogs retrieving heavy fishing nets in waters more rough? What about other dangerous terrain? How else do you retrieve your downed birds? Looked like a good hole.


Here's the thing. Will you still eat if you don't go duck hunting?

I would hope everyone has read Matt G's "10 minutes from retrieving to should be dead" stickied thread. In fairly standard conditions, a moment of poor judgement almost killed a dog. These conditions seem like unnecessary thrill chasing to me.


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## Eric Fryer (May 23, 2006)

I did not read all the responces.... But all I keep watching for is a white shark to jump ten feet out of the water with a dog in its jaws. I love watching those shows with the seals.... and that looks too familar to me. That would scare the hell outta me. 

The dogs are impressive, but would I send my dog out there.... no. But I am a landlover here in the Rocky Mountains so what the hell do I know anyway?


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## Jeff Atkinson (Jul 30, 2010)

I enjoyed the first 2 clips but the last was a bit much. It's the sea, crashing on to a rocky and irregular shoreline. Too unpredictable for me to hunt with a dog I care about. Heck I felt bad watching the last dog.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

hunting sea ducks definitely will show you the amount of retrieve in your dog.

we haven't gone in a few years, but those conditions in the video weren't anything out of the ordinary. a stiff onshore wind provides the best shooting and we used to prefer those conditions.

just about any good retriever will jump into that stuff and bring the bird to you. the measure of a good sea duck dog is whether they will do it again and again. especially, will they launch for a downed bird they didn't mark. handlng is tricky. you have to time your whistle so that when the dog turns for the cast they are riding up the face of a wave and you must blow hard and loooong so they can hear it. 

as far as cripples are concerned, if you can't kill'em immediately upon hitting the water, you won't see them again until they are out of gun range. you just count that bird in your bag and move on. big payloads of #1 shot helps keep them to a minimum.-Paul


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

That was good stuff!! Personally letting a dog rip in a nice stick pond usually has more chance of injury than getting out of rough surf. That dog was living the dream as far as i'm concerned.


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## robertnla (Oct 16, 2008)

To some people they are just a dog and others are more like us.
Think about it " what is more dangerous" than a bomb dog going to Iraq?
Just short and simple- dogs will do what we want them to do cause they love people. Our love for them is what brings all of us together.


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## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

paul young said:


> hunting sea ducks definitely will show you the amount of retrieve in your dog.
> 
> we haven't gone in a few years, but those conditions in the video weren't anything out of the ordinary. a stiff onshore wind provides the best shooting and we used to prefer those conditions.
> 
> ...


Wow.......an actual response based on first hand knowlege and experience instead of perception and paranoia.;-)

Thank you Paul for injecting some factually based reality into this.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

greg magee said:


> That was good stuff!! Personally letting a dog rip in a nice stick pond usually has more chance of injury than getting out of rough surf. That dog was living the dream as far as i'm concerned.


I'm sure you are correct. I bet these guys could go on lots of hunts and never have an issue. Once they know which dog is good at it, they can probably do it hunt after hunt.

I've been an odds player for years. My number finally came up a few years ago and I had to pull a hurt dog out of the water. It was pretty awful.

So now I do tend to think now about the next step. I've learned that the stuff I think happens to "the other guy" can happen to me. What will I do when and if that low odds freak accident occurs? How would I react and what would I do?

And in the case of the unconscious dog bobbing up and down next to those rocks, versus the impaled dog on a beaver stick in a stick pond, I know which one I'd feel better about jumping in to help....or watching one of my human partners do it.


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## RailRoadRetrievers (Feb 4, 2004)

RaeganW said:


> Here's the thing. Will you still eat if you don't go duck hunting?


Yes, I very seldom miss a meal and if I do I make up for it on the next one


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## Kirk Keene (Jul 20, 2009)

Ken Bora said:


> x2 !
> 
> ..........


X3!

........


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## Im_with_Brandy (Apr 22, 2010)

The waves don't bother me it's the rocky shore line and the undercurrents. And the guy standing behide that keeps swining the gun around.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Swimming in salt is a heckova lot easier than swimming in fresh water too... 

If filmed in Spain, I can assume the water is warmer and has higher salt content than fresh as well. 

I know when I go to Hawaii or Mexico, I can be out in the water for hours. Move into swimming in the Columbia River and I can't last much more than 10 minutes. Salt content and temperature of the water makes a huge difference for me and I guarantee it makes a difference on any animal swimming. 

Just swimming in salt water is much, much easier than swimming in cold fresh water.


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## Col Blimp (Jun 20, 2011)

> If filmed in Spain, I can assume the water is warmer


The poster is a French Canadian from the Gaspesie peninsular in the Gulf of St Lawrence. Certainly salt water but not the balmy Mediterranean kind!

I agree about the gun handling; that was a lot more dangerous IMO than the conditions.

Eug


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

Awesome video


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

some serious French bashing in the youtube comments , eh ?
I read the comments here before watching the video.I would have to go on a hunt there and watch firsthand what goes on before I will say yes or no to putting my dog in the drink.
Like mom said - "its all fun and games until someone gets hurt".


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

I would if i could.
Those that can DO. Those that can't watch on youtube. 
I didn't surf the "North Shore" in season either.

john


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## Lee Jones (Mar 19, 2011)

bottom line: if you don't have a problem with putting you dog's life in danger then "go for it"


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## mngundog (Mar 25, 2011)

jonesrebel11 said:


> bottom line: if you don't have a problem with putting you dog's life in danger then "go for it"


I think the bottom line is in the perspective of the dogs life being in danger. There has been many discussions on this forum on peoples perspective of danger including: sit at flush/shot, breaking ice, shooting ducks in the air while a dogs on a retrieve, heat, etc., this is just another one of those cases. We may never agree, but I feel we're doing a disservice when we bad month someone with a different opinion.


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## Jim Person (Jan 5, 2003)

I remember one of the sea duck hunts we did down on Quivet Creek on Cape Cod, you had Daisy, Tony had Carly, and I had Jet. Wind was blowing pretty hard and it was cold.... All the dogs made some nice retrieves that day, Jet got rolled up a couple times in a big wave, Carly had a good day, but I remember Daisy going after a cripple out to sea,she went out of sight and it was a gut check time, then we saw a black dot out in the water... here came Daisy with that bird. Ic an still remeber that hunt as if it were yesterday... It takes a dog with a lot of bottom to hunt sea ducks in those conditions... Jim




paul young said:


> hunting sea ducks definitely will show you the amount of retrieve in your dog.
> 
> we haven't gone in a few years, but those conditions in the video weren't anything out of the ordinary. a stiff onshore wind provides the best shooting and we used to prefer those conditions.
> 
> ...


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## Dustin D (Jan 12, 2012)

/


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