# Best Markers that "YOU" have ever witnessed



## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Just wondering what everyone that of when it comes to the best marking dog that they have ever seen. I have a little one in training now that can mark with the best dogs twice her age. Lets see what you think.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Pin point marker or a dog that can dig a tough bird out?

Angie


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Angie B said:


> Pin point marker or a dog that can dig a tough bird out?
> 
> Angie


Pin Point. Run so close the only way to miss it is to sneeze as you go across.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Kweezy - FC/AFC Trumarc's Lean Cuisine


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

I trained with Ritz (FC-AFC DB's Cracker of Club Mead), for about seven years, very difficult set ups almost every day, I never and I mean never saw him fail a mark. Push bird, check down, big swim, whatever, he always knew where the bird was and there wasn't anything that would keep him from getting it. God knows Ritz had isues, but marking wasn't one of them.
John


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## Chris Meyer (Aug 10, 2008)

The best marker I've ever seen was a crayola.


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## GG (Jan 29, 2006)

Back in the seventies i had a young vet student doing research on K9 vision, ask to examine the eyes of all the dogs in my kennel (19 competitive dogs). Her conclusion was that two of the dogs had retinal dysplasia, oddly enough they were the two best markers in the kennel. After that, i made an attempt to determine what qualities did it take to make a dog a good marker---after several months of frustrating research, i decided to stick to dog training; but it's an interesting subject.
have a good day
GG


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

FC/AFC Coolwater's Ice Tiger and Wayne Dodson's dog Copper.


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

I have heard on more than one occasion that Copper was a hell of a marker. To bad she was gone so soon.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

When every other dog handled, I once watched "Prize" step on the money bird of a water quad, that to this day still confounds me how he did it.

But week in and week out the best marker I ever saw was Charlie Hines's late "Ranger." My limited experience is that most dogs mark to "the area (of the fall)," and the question is only how big or small is that "area." 

Ranger didn't mark to "the area," he marked to "the spot." It was incredible to watch. 

I never saw her, but I hear "Lottie" was the same way.


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

Patton. Prime.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> Kweezy - FC/AFC Trumarc's Lean Cuisine


Ditto... she will give you goosebumps.

Danny Farmer also says Kweezy is the best marking dog HE has ever seen... 

SM


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I have only watched a few AA field trials, but I do train with some pretty good dogs. If you are asking only about marking ability, and no other qualities or behaviors are considered, the best my eyes have ever seen is my own Indy. He's downright scary. But.........that and about $2.50 might buy me a green ribbon.


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Ditto... she will give you goosebumps.
> 
> Danny Farmer also says Kweezy is the best marking dog HE has ever seen...
> 
> SM



That says alot right there. He has seen a few I bet.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Patton and Copper are the best I have personally seen, but I have not seen a lot of the others mentioned


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Ditto... she will give you goosebumps.
> 
> Danny Farmer also says Kweezy is the best marking dog HE has ever seen...
> 
> SM


Yeah. Think there's something to be said about the majority of the dogs on his truck are out of Kweezy. "That bitch could flat out mark." regards.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Candlewoods Bit O Bunny, "Babe"


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## Alan Sandifer (Oct 17, 2007)

Everyone has their own opinion and they are all great dogs , i will go with Ritz


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

the Best I have personally seen is NAFC FC Ray's Rascal.....second and third would be NFC AFC Risky Business Ruby, FC AFC Watergator Will


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## Warren Flynt (Nov 14, 2007)

Havent seen many, but Patton was really nice. So was Frank Price's Roux.

Limited experience regards,

Warren


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Copiah Creek said:


> Everyone has their own opinion and they are all great dogs , i will go with Ritz


I wish I could have seen him.:sad:

BTW: Love the aviator!


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## Alan Sandifer (Oct 17, 2007)

Scott i have him on 8mm ,,,BUT i dont know how to put it on a dvd ,,,if i can figure it out i will let you know .

The av is a 14 day old chessie female , everytime i picked her up she would yawn .


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

we have so many 8mm tapes it isn't funny...when you figure it out, let me know. 

Juli


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Copiah Creek said:


> Scott i have him on 8mm ,,,BUT i dont know how to put it on a dvd ,,,if i can figure it out i will let you know .
> 
> The av is a 14 day old chessie female , everytime i picked her up she would yawn .


Thanks. Let me know I would love to see. 

The pup is a cutie as much as I can see!lol


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Copiah Creek said:


> Scott i have him on 8mm ,,,BUT i dont know how to put it on a dvd ,,,if i can figure it out i will let you know.





Juli H said:


> we have so many 8mm tapes it isn't funny...when you figure it out, let me know.
> 
> Juli


There is more than one way to convert 8mm tape to DVD. I know at least 2 or 3 ways and have done it myself. There are certainly other ways that I don't know. If either of you wants any advice on that I'll be glad to tell you what I can. I've converted 8mm to DVD, VHS to DVD, mini-dv to DVD, etc.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

For you Golden lovers out there one of the best markers regardless of breeds was FC AFC Tigathoes Funky Fahrquar...that boy could flat out mark...I know because I used to throw birds for him when he was in the family stable, so to speak...


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## greg magee (Oct 24, 2007)

Candlewoods M.D. Houston And Candlewoods Bit O Bunny

Two of the best I've ever seen.

Houston
He qualified each year for the National Open from 1989-1995 and in the National Amateur 1988-1995.He ended his career with 115 open points and 199 amateur points.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Lottie.

kg


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## Gordy Weigel (Feb 12, 2003)

FC/AFC Taylorlabs Downtown Dusty Brown


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

NAFC FC Cannonball Kate, back to back years of over 60 + AA points. Retired with 410 AA points. I think that may be 2nd all time high point bitch. Not sure how many nationals she qualified for had to be in the neighborhood of 10-12. Great marking dog! Just knew where the birds were.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Barry said:


> NAFC FC Cannonball Kate, back to back years of over 60 + AA points. Retired with 410 AA points. I think that may be 2nd all time high point bitch. Not sure how many nationals she qualified for had to be in the neighborhood of 10-12. Great marking dog! Just knew where the birds were.


I believe that Kate was #3 all time high point dog (until Auggie surpassed her) behind Corky and her nephew FC-NAFC Trumarc's Zip Code. Kate was a finalist (at age 10) at my first National Amateur in Carson City in 1982 so I am certain that her National qualification number is in the upper teens. She was a superb dog, definitely one of the best ever.


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

EdA said:


> I believe that Kate was #3 all time high point dog (until Auggie surpassed her) behind Corky and her nephew FC-NAFC Trumarc's Zip Code. Kate was a finalist (at age 10) at my first National Amateur in Carson City in 1982 so I am certain that her National qualification number is in the upper teens. She was a superb dog, definitely one of the best ever.


Not to hijack my own thread but did Kate produce any other high point dogs?


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## GoodDog (Oct 15, 2007)

I am going to have to agree with Bur Oak. The best marking dog I have personally seen is FC/AFC Taylorlabs Downtown Dusty Brown. I was shooting the flyer in the Open for the KC Retriever Clubs field trial last fall, a lot of big name dogs, and Dusty was amazing on Friday.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

there are and where alot of dogs that where great markers that never got a title. must posters on here have never even seen the dogs mentioned just repeating some bullshit they heard from someone else. kweezy was was a great marker as well as a few mentioned. there was a dog named super powder that was pretty damm good and another named Dr Daveys Clinch River Cassey that "i" think was the best i ever saw.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Scott Greenwood said:


> Not to hijack my own thread but did Kate produce any other high point dogs?


Kate was never bred, her sister Seymour's Windjammer Mist produced 3 from the breeding to Honcho, FC-AFC Earthquake Ethel, FC-AFC Jumpin Black Flash, and NAFC-FC Trumarc's Zip Code


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

kip said:


> there are and where alot of dogs that where great markers that never got a title. must posters on here have never even seen the dogs mentioned just repeating some bullshit they heard from someone else. kweezy was was a great marker as well as a few mentioned. there was a dog named *super powder that was pretty damm good* and another named Dr Daveys Clinch River Cassey that "i" think was the best i ever saw.


Super Powder x FC AFC Nakai Anny produced quite a few great marking dogs

AFC Rip Snortin Good times, FC AFC Amazing Grace of Ornbaun, NFC Risky Business Ruby,FC AFC Sunday Hawkeye, Dr Davey PHD,


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> Ditto... she will give you goosebumps.
> 
> Danny Farmer also says Kweezy is the best marking dog HE has ever seen...
> 
> SM





Ted Shih said:


> Kweezy - FC/AFC Trumarc's Lean Cuisine


Make that three....something about her gives me goosebumps, even on an off day, her worse marking is some of the best I have seen....


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## Greg Seddon (Jan 7, 2005)

The markers I witnessed when I got in the game 10 years ago were


NAFC FC Adams Acres Cherokee Rose
FC AFC Hawkeye’s Candlewood Shadow
FC AFC Carolina’s Smoke On the Water
FC AFC Carolina’s Electrik Gypsy 

The markers I have witnessed in the last few years


FC AFC Sally’s South Paw
FC AFC RPM’s Xena 
FC AFC Aran Island’s Dugan
[*]FC AFC Carolina’s Electrik Gypsy (Girlie was still marking birds very good at 10 and 11 years old last year)

Few summers ago Billy Voight was home for a visit and seen few of us out training on a big water blind and came over and introduced him self. Billy told us about NAFC FC Rivers Oak Corky he trained and handled and all I can say is I was in awe of the story's he told us about Corky. I would of really liked to of seen this dog work.


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

NFC Butte's Blue Moon - 30 Derby points - 9 trials against the National derby runner up

CNFC Jalva's Sweet Charmain - 3rd on the Derby list - 60+ points

NAFC-FC Ray's Rascal - National Derby Champion

Moon by far - I have never seen a dog approach his ability


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I haven't seen some of these dogs mentioned but I did see Lottie and she was the best I've ever seen.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

in the limited trials i have been to it would be FC maggie mcbunn and saw prime run a few times and he was pretty darn good.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

2tall said:


> I have only watched a few AA field trials, but I do train with some pretty good dogs. If you are asking only about marking ability, and no other qualities or behaviors are considered, the best my eyes have ever seen is my own Indy. He's downright scary. But.........that and about $2.50 might buy me a green ribbon.


Beauty is truely in the eyes of the beholder....

I've had a corgi that can out mark most 16 week old FC wanabees....

He rocks and is by far the best marker I've ever seen for his breed...

Angie


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## Granddaddy (Mar 5, 2005)

There is quite a difference in the answers given to this question when you only see a dog at trials several times over the course of the dog's competitive career versus owning, handling or training a great marking dog. I don't know that Super Chief was great marking dog, but he was when he won at Memphis in 1968 (I think a double header). I would hold a similar opinion of Honcho, again when he won at Memphis in the early 70s (1971, I think). And I would put Jazztime in that same category when I saw him win at NW WA (or maybe the Samish trial) when I was in WA in the early 90s. Those dogs were spectacular on those weekends but I didn't train with those dogs or have any other means of comparison beyond their work on a specific weekend against a field of dogs. Many dogs have their day & when I saw those mentioned it was surely their day.

That said, I train with a couple of very impressive young dogs these days that seem to mark as well or better than many accomplished dogs of today. Time will tell if their marking skills yield AA wins, titles & championships or those things accomplished which we use to answer such questions.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Granddaddy said:


> There is quite a difference in the answers given to this question when you only see a dog at trials several times over the course of the dog's competitive career versus owning, handling or training a great marking dog. I don't know that Super Chief was great marking dog, but he was when he won at Memphis in 1968 (I think a double header). I would hold a similar opinion of Honcho, again when he won at Memphis in the early 70s (1971, I think). And I would put Jazztime in that same category when I saw him win at NW WA (or maybe the Samish trial) when I was in WA in the early 90s. Those dogs were spectacular on those weekends but I didn't train with those dogs or have any other means of comparison beyond their work on a specific weekend against a field of dogs. Many dogs have their day & when I saw those mentioned it was surely their day.
> 
> That said, I train with a couple of very impressive young dogs these days that seem to mark as well or better than many accomplished dogs of today. Time will tell if their marking skills yield AA wins, titles & championships or those things accomplished which we use to answer such questions.


Bingo!!!!

That's why I didn't respond with a absolute answer. I've witnessed on any given weekend the best and damn near worst of our circuit go from "hero to zero" or vice/versa on a weekend....

I've seen *amazing* nationally competitve dogs be consistent all year and then go to pot on the 7th, or the 2nd or the 9th at a national.....

Amazing markers that I have had the pleasure to watch, train with and taken a bird from are many.... They left a huge impression on me. Their intelligence, savvy, talent and heart is what marking and this game is all about....

IMHO

Angie


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

I don't know what other people's basis of knowledge is, but

I competed against Judy and Kweezy in the Derby
I competed against Judy and Kweezy in the Qual
I competed against Judy and Kweezy in the Amateur
I competed against Judy and Kweezy in the Open
I competed against Judy and Kweezy in two National Amateurs.

I have trained with Judy and Kweezy over the years in both Colorado and in Texas.
I pre-national trained with Judy and Kweezy at the 2003 National Amateur in McCall.

I have seen Kweezy up close and personal for almost ten years, and she remains

The best marking dog that I have ever seen.


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## lizard55033 (Mar 10, 2008)

Chris Meyer said:


> The best marker I've ever seen was a crayola.


Chris thats pretty funny


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Thats how and why I answered the question the way I did

I saw Ray's Rascal up close including his National win, Clint's second dog John Rex Rascal was a marking fool with two AA wins of his own before being retired due to injury

I got to see Risky Business Ruby during a stellar derby career

I played with Watergator Will and saw he and George have a fine career

and finally I threw birds for Quar , while his owner was involved with the family


Not saying they were the best even though three of them were NDC, but I saw them in person which is how I based my opinion


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

Ted, your reasons are the same as mine when talking about Queezy.

I also will include an example of one mark that backs this up.

It was at the derby in Amarillo Tx. A huge rock seperated the line between the two very tight water marks, or that's how it seemed to the other fifteen dogs that ran it before Queezy. The true line to the right hand me
ory bird was OVER the boulder. Queezey did just that, climbing over this huge rock with a good deal of effort. Of course she pinned the bird and you guessed it, came back o er that boiler again on the way back. 

Other great markers I have run against would be Showthyme, Rebel,Trapper, and Pogo. 
Emorable performances from great dogs I have witnessed in individual trials would be from Rosie, Prime, Chubby , Pike (judged him), Roux (ran him), and Archie (loved him)!


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## Dustin Maddux (Aug 18, 2008)

Tim West said:


> Ted, your reasons are the same as mine when talking about Queezy.
> 
> I also will include an example of one mark that backs this up.
> 
> ...


That is awesome. Being new to the game it is always cool to hear stories like this.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Ted, I believe you own Kweezie babies, correct?


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Topbrass Cotton is worthy of mention. A lot of the stories about Cotton being slow are from his later years. The story goes that Lardy once timed every dog in the first series of the open in a quad. Cotton won by several minutes.

Eric


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## Lonny Taylor (Jun 22, 2004)

I am suprised that it has taken this long but I would have to say that Lean Mac would have to be mentioned as one of the best markers I have witnessed. He was light on his water blinds at times but that dog could mark. Lottie would be one of the next ones and I agree with marvin about Sharmain but she was just finishing up when I first got in the game but could lay down some awesome marks even when she was getting old. Another great marker was "cody" Code blue. 

A dog that also could put it on was NFC Dewey's Drake of Mooonriver. Unfortunately I have never really got to watch Ken Jackson's "Auggie" but as I understand it he has the eyes and ablility to get to the marks the way you want him too. 

LT


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Lonny Taylor said:


> I am suprised that it has taken this long but I would have to say that Lean Mac would have to be mentioned as one of the best markers I have witnessed. He was light on his water blinds at times but that dog could mark. Lottie would be one of the next ones and I agree with marvin about Sharmain but she was just finishing up when I first got in the game but could lay down some awesome marks even when she was getting old. Another great marker was "cody" Code blue.
> 
> A dog that also could put it on was NFC Dewey's Drake of Mooonriver. Unfortunately I have never really got to watch Ken Jackson's "Auggie" but as I understand it he has the eyes and ablility to get to the marks the way you want him too.
> 
> LT



I train with alot of NFC DRAKE dogs and he must pass the gene because they are all outstanding markers. Many times making the handler look like the fool!


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Lonny Taylor;463937 said:


> *I am suprised that it has taken this long but I would have to say that Lean Mac would have to be mentioned as one of the best markers I have witnessed*. He was light on his water blinds at times but that dog could mark. Lottie would be one of the next ones and I agree with marvin about Sharmain but she was just finishing up when I first got in the game but could lay down some awesome marks even when she was getting old. Another great marker was "cody" Code blue.
> 
> A dog that also could put it on was NFC Dewey's Drake of Mooonriver. Unfortunately I have never really got to watch Ken Jackson's "Auggie" but as I understand it he has the eyes and ablility to get to the marks the way you want him too.
> 
> LT


I think part of that reason is that many here including myself never got to actually see Lean Mac run, the other is that his reputation for being the most prolific sire ever known in the lab world overshadows the reality that he was a multiple National champion stake winner


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## Barry (Dec 11, 2007)

Lonny Taylor said:


> I am suprised that it has taken this long but I would have to say that Lean Mac would have to be mentioned as one of the best markers I have witnessed. He was light on his water blinds at times but that dog could mark. Lottie would be one of the next ones and I agree with marvin about Sharmain but she was just finishing up when I first got in the game but could lay down some awesome marks even when she was getting old. Another great marker was "cody" Code blue.
> 
> A dog that also could put it on was NFC Dewey's Drake of Mooonriver. Unfortunately I have never really got to watch Ken Jackson's "Auggie" but as I understand it he has the eyes and ablility to get to the marks the way you want him too.
> 
> LT


Having judged Auggie many times, he is one of the few dogs that has the ability to win every trial that he enters. One of the best marking dogs of all time and a very controllable dog on blinds. To bad he was running head to head all the time with his pal Carbon. Think how many AA points Auggie would have had if not for Carbon.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Barry said:


> Having judged Auggie many times, he is one of the few dogs that has the ability to win every trial that he enters. One of the best marking dogs of all time and a very controllable dog on blinds. To bad he was running head to head all the time with his pal Carbon. Think how many AA points Auggie would have had if not for Carbon.


+1 to that, I had the unenviable honor or running against both of those dogs for the whole of Yoda's career. Yoda's greatest accomplishment was finally beating Carbon and Shooter head to head on a really difficult but fair Open. He did it once, as Barry said Auggie, Shooter and Carbon were right there week after week.
John


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## Suzanne Burr (Jul 13, 2004)

Barry, I agree with you--Cannonball Kate was a fantastic marker. I loved watching her run.
Suzanne B


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

Another brag for the "Fluffy" side was a little red dog named "Zeke".
He was an awesome animal to watch.
Derby List,Double header winner, close to winning a National. Life cut to darn short. Dam cancer. Sorry Chris.
Sue


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

Sue Kiefer said:


> Another brag for the "Fluffy" side was a little red dog named "Zeke".
> He was an awesome animal to watch.
> Derby List,Double header winner, close to winning a National. Life cut to darn short. Dam cancer. Sorry Chris.
> Sue


He's one dog I wish I could have seen. And (not to hijack), but clearly he was one loved dog for them to have donated so much money in his memory for cancer research. He'll never be forgotten.

I was able to watch the 9h & 10th series of last year's Nat Am & obviously saw some great markers, but one the fondest memories I have of watching a great marking dog was a few years ago at a FT. Being a HTer who had never seen a FT-I wasn't sure what to expect.

This little black bitch positively slammed what was a very challenging land series -finishing to the sound of applause. The bitch was Cherokee Rose and what I found to be endearing was that after being all business when running-she turned into this sweet, personable dog who seemed to know she'd done a good job.

M


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Sue Kiefer said:


> Another brag for the "Fluffy" side was a little red dog named "Zeke".
> He was an awesome animal to watch.
> Derby List,Double header winner, close to winning a National. Life cut to darn short. Dam cancer. Sorry Chris.
> Sue


Zeke was the main reason I got into field trials. Back then you saw a lot of show Goldens running HT, they were definitly giving Goldens a bad name in the HT game. Then through training partners I heard about this wonderful dog named Zeke who would drive to the FT in the front seat of Bill's truck, hop out and smash the test. He was the Auggie or Carbon of the day in our region. Jackie Mertins judged Zeke once and said he was the only dog who truly knew where each bird was on a very tough quad. Dave Hangus told me a story once about how Zeke took a line through some solid cattails, fought them too hard and got off line. He found a muskrat hut or something, got on top and very intellegently reoriented himself, "there's Dad, there's the flyer station, ok the long bird must be right over there", then went on to pin the mark.

My first FT dog was out of Zeke's last litter, born after Zeke had passed. Cody inherited Zeke's good looks and drive but unfortunately only about half his talent, but Cody was still great and would really turn heads at hunt test.

John


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## tmt (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi, I am still fairly new to Goldens and trying to learn all I can. What was Zeke's registered name?


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Barry said:


> To bad he was running head to head all the time with his pal Carbon. Think how many AA points Auggie would have had if not for Carbon.


And visa versa. Think of how many points Carbon would have had if he wasn't running against his pal Auggie. For awhile at N. Calif. and Southern OR trials, it was a "given" that those two would always be in the silver -- often lst and 2nd, 2nd or 1st. Then along came Chopper. Every now and then somebody would sneak into the ribbons. 

And then there was Telli, and then came Julia who gave the boys a run for the ribbons.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

tmt said:


> Hi, I am still fairly new to Goldens and trying to learn all I can. What was Zeke's registered name?


FC/AFC Mioaks Smoke'n Zeke


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## jeff t. (Jul 24, 2003)

02NFC-AFC Cashman's _Fat Lady Zingin
_2004 NAFC FC Chicamonga _Choo Choo_
FC AFC OTCH _Law Abiding Ezra_
FC AFC OTCH Topbrass Ascending Elijah


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Having run and judged trials for 20+ years now, the best natural marker I ever saw was FC AFC Brutus of Wigeon Creek (Brute) from Alaska. He was a great marker at any distance. Bill Petrovish owned and trained him (owner of Ammo the current top derby dog). Bill would throw pigeons at 300 - 400 yards in training and Brute would just step on them. My dog (who was an AFC/GMHR) often could not even see the marks that Brute would just crush. In all these years, I've not seen another dog with eyes that good. Unfortunately, Brute's career was mostly spent in Alaska running 4 - 6 trials per year. Once when Brute spent a short time with Bill Sargenti, Rex Carr asked Bill to get his best dog off the truck for a particularly tough set of marks...Bill went to the truck and got Brute. Rex asked "who's that?" and Bill answered "my best marking dog!" Bill Davis (formerly of Alaska and Washington State...now in Tennessee)


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

huntinman said:


> Having run and judged trials for 20+ years now, the best natural marker I ever saw was FC AFC Brutus of Wigeon Creek (Brute) from Alaska. He was a great marker at any distance. Bill Petrovish owned and trained him (owner of Ammo the current top derby dog). Bill would throw pigeons at 300 - 400 yards in training and Brute would just step on them. My dog (who was an AFC/GMHR) often could not even see the marks that Brute would just crush. In all these years, I've not seen another dog with eyes that good. Unfortunately, Brute's career was mostly spent in Alaska running 4 - 6 trials per year. Once when Brute spent a short time with Bill Sargenti, Rex Carr asked Bill to get his best dog off the truck for a particularly tough set of marks...Bill went to the truck and got Brute. Rex asked "who's that?" and Bill answered "my best marking dog!" Bill Davis (formerly of Alaska and Washington State...now in Tennessee)


Hey there Bill, I thought you were still in the Roy area until Bill P came up here this June to judge us.

I thought about this question for a time and I also decided that Brute was the best marker day in and day out I've ever seen. The guy could be screwed up but he did some fantastic marking.


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## Gwen Jones (Jun 19, 2004)

Gemstone's Tyra Banks. The strongest, best marking female I have ever seen. Bad luck in the health department cut her short.


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## brian lewis (Jun 6, 2005)

A few of my favorites

Candlewoods goldendaze maggie

Wildwings hurricane storm

Trumarcs stormin normin

Texanna yellow gold


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Great thread.


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## David Lo Buono (Apr 6, 2005)

junfan68 said:


> Great thread.




........ditto!


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## Glenn McElroy (Jan 7, 2004)

FC AFC Westwinds Bold Tiger


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## SHANNON (May 30, 2008)

Any comments regarding Chopper and Creek Robber? Not trying to steal a thread but I just bought a pup from these two lines, Chopper is the dad and Creek Robber is the grandpa on the moms side. Just wanting to know what to expect!


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Read all the comments on Auggie. That is Creek Robbers call name. He ran in the National Amatuer this year. He is an outstanding marker.


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## Lee W (Jul 19, 2004)

This might sound a little biast but FC FTCH AFTCH L&L's Black Tie Affair is a great marker ...


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## kindakinky (Dec 11, 2008)

Question about marking and eye placement on a dog:

Many high prey animals, like lions, have eye placement in which the eye is very forward in its placement on the head.

In some retriever breeds, like mine the Curly Coated Retriever, we ask for a more obliquely placed eye, in part for the dog to have more peripheral vision and in part to protect the eye from injury while running through heavy cover.

Has anyone ever done a study of eye placement in labradors and how it relates to marking ability?

Not to get too technical--I believe performance is a matter of heart first. But I do like to hear from folks about how they believe conformation/physical aspects of a dog affect performance in various venues, including field trials/hunt tests.

Regards,
J. Marti


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Watch out for a young male named "Fresh Squeezed Juice"...

He'll have some impressive letters after his name soon enough.

That dog is one bad mojo of a marker.

Chris


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## Latisha (Feb 2, 2004)

kindakinky said:


> Question about marking and eye placement on a dog:
> 
> Many high prey animals, like lions, have eye placement in which the eye is very forward in its placement on the head.
> 
> ...


As much as I love any discussion of functional conformation, I think some of these things get nit picked a bit too much. Forward-placed eyes may help vision, but it would change the overall shape of the head. Think of the small companion dog breeds bred for big forward placed eyes. Not a functional retriever head at all.

But more forward vs more oblique eyes on a normal retriever head? I don't think that small amount of variance would make much difference. The nuances of eye conformation are usually more about type and expression than function, IMO.

Latisha


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

When I first got into the FT game The Garlands ran 1 season of trials with Windy FC/AFC Riparian Mariah. She qualified for 5 nationals and was a 3 time finalist. When we would train with them I would get the honor of getting to run her so she could train me. My dog was not even of derby age yet and was and still is a bit wild on the line. She was incredible I would have loved to see her run a few years earlier. I was actually breath taking to watch. Her blinds were as good. I never saw a dog that would take such a perfect initial line and carry it so far. I remember one water blind long angle entry over and off a point into big open water. I never blew the whistle. It still sticks in my mind. Maybe some day I will be honored to run another dog that was so talented and good tempered.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Steve Amrein said:


> When I first got into the FT game The Garlands ran 1 season of trials with Windy FC/AFC Riparian Mariah. She qualified for 5 nationals and was a 3 time finalist. When we would train with them I would get the honor of getting to run her so she could train me. My dog was not even of derby age yet and was and still is a bit wild on the line. She was incredible I would have loved to see her run a few years earlier. I was actually breath taking to watch. Her blinds were as good. I never saw a dog that would take such a perfect initial line and carry it so far. I remember one water blind long angle entry over and off a point into big open water. I never blew the whistle. It still sticks in my mind. Maybe some day I will be honored to run another dog that was so talented and good tempered.


I love stories like that. This thread is a high point on the RTF for me. Keep the stories coming.

John


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Watch out for a young male named "Fresh Squeezed Juice"...
> 
> He'll have some impressive letters after his name soon enough.
> 
> ...


SECOND THAT!!!!
I had the priviledge [or misfortune LOL]of running against Juice a number of times in Derby's last year. He was impressive to say the least.

From my observations, I never could ascertain whether or not the little bugger had a sense of smell. But he sure can MARK. Frontfooted everything!!
On a related note, isn't Pat Burns a pleasure to compete against? 
How did they get so much happiness in such a small package?


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Ok, I can tell a little story about the amazing NAFC Chica . Saw her first at Andy's, she was about 13 months. Even then, people would ask, who's that? She just had star quality.

Saw her again at Nashville, she was just two. She made it to the last series of the Am. Big swim, tight past the middle bird. She got about 3/4 out there, then caved.
As Lynn was walking off line, I said, I think you're going to have a lot of fun with her.
She said, you know what, I already am.
Sometime soon after, she won her first double header.

She was all heart, a joy to watch, just loved her. Brother Ezra not too shabby, either.


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## scott spalding (Aug 27, 2005)

SHANNON said:


> Any comments regarding Chopper and Creek Robber? Not trying to steal a thread but I just bought a pup from these two lines, Chopper is the dad and Creek Robber is the grandpa on the moms side. Just wanting to know what to expect!


I have had the pleasure of watching both of these dogs run many times and they are both great markers. The thing that was most amazing was the water work. If Creek Robber or Chopper made it to the water they were almost Impossible to beat. Two of the very best if you ask me.
________
Gt185


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

kindakinky said:


> Question about marking and eye placement on a dog:
> 
> Many high prey animals, like lions, have eye placement in which the eye is very forward in its placement on the head.
> 
> ...


Gawd you are as bad as me LOL. Thinking about future years when we can add eagle or hawk eye DNA. 

One of our early Australian training books, written by a scientist showed pictures of the affect of the wind and its movement. Being married to a physicist whose special interest is sound - sound waves etc...gosh I can go off center sometimes.


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## Prairie Hill's (Sep 23, 2007)

I had the honor to watch and with all due respect run a few times FC AFC Mioaks Criquetpas..... what a dog. 

What a talented remarkable dog.

Corrine Clavey


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

mjh345 said:


> SECOND THAT!!!!
> I had the priviledge [or misfortune LOL]of running against Juice a number of times in Derby's last year. He was impressive to say the least.
> 
> From my observations, I never could ascertain whether or not the little bugger had a sense of smell. But he sure can MARK. Frontfooted everything!!
> ...


Pat Burns is, quite possibly, the coolest retriever handler ever to send a dog for a mark or blind. 

Chris


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## Jeff Bartlett (Jan 7, 2006)

scott spalding said:


> I have had the pleasure of watching both of these dogs run many times and they are both great markers. The thing that was most amazing was the water work. If Creek Robber or Chopper made it to the water they were almost Impossible to beat. Two of the very best if you ask me.


good water dogs


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## Scott Greenwood (Mar 25, 2008)

Glad it was started but by far one of the better threads of this year. So many great stories and explenations of dogs that most have never witnessed!


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

The best derby I had the pleasure to run was Super Sundance Wayne Curtis ran him 3 derbies with one fourth and then I ran him in 7 more and got 23 points when you cosider all 10 derbies he had 2.4 points per trial.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Anybody see Jamie (FC AFC Teddy's Ebonstar James.)? Heard he was a beast.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

We ran against Jamie a lot. He was special in every way. And, a real character, stuffed with personality. 
Always remember walking by him in the back seat of the truck. Would stop to say hi, he would talk right back to me. 

The day Steve and Emily told me about his heart, still brings tears to think of it. A very wonderful dog.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks for that story.


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## AmiableLabs (Jan 14, 2003)

cakaiser said:


> Jamie. . . .a real character, stuffed with personality. . . .A very wonderful dog.


He was also very handsome.


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> Anybody see Jamie (FC AFC Teddy's Ebonstar James.)? Heard he was a beast.


I saw Jamie as a young dog. Steve used to summer in Minnesota with Greg Bartlett, at that time he didn't show anything spectacular.He was young then and I was surprised a few years later when he finished the National.


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## FowlDawgs (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm new to the dog games, but the best marking dog I have seen is probally HRCH Big Two Hearted River II MNH HOF QAA or GRHRCH Barkleys Yankee Thunder MH. 

Cory


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## Bill Burks (Jan 25, 2003)

I've watched Queezy run many trials and saw her make a mistake - once.

Ironwood's Tarnation was incredible as well.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Richard Halstead said:


> The best derby I had the pleasure to run was Super Sundance Wayne Curtis ran him 3 derbies with one fourth and then I ran him in 7 more and got 23 points when you cosider all 10 derbies he had 2.4 points per trial.


Goodness look at those shoulders.

Tell us more about this dogs career.


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

Bill, I think I won that Derby she made a mistake at! It didn't happen very often. Queezy either won the trial or bombed it, and she didn't bomb it but once or twice her entire Derby career.

I think one of the best markers out there on our circuit, and maybe the country, is Trumarc's Little Miss Pogo, owned and handled by John and Martha Russell. I've seen her win two double headers and she usually stomps on the water marks. Multiple National finalist, too. Great blind runner and a really fun dog to watch.


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## cotts135 (Aug 5, 2008)

Have witnessed a few Field trials so I certainly can't claim to be an expert on this subject, but in my limited experience, the best marker I have seen is a dog that runs primarily in Canada that goes by the name AFTCH Grouse of Drakes Bay and is owned by Ronnie LaDuke. I have trained a few times with her and she amazes me everytime I see her run.


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Aussie said:


> Goodness look at those shoulders.
> 
> Tell us more about this dogs career.


I sent the dog on a winter trip when he was over a year old with Wayne Curtis who had been working at Reo Raj kennels where Jim Kappes was the head trainer. When Wayne came back he had a fourth from Port Arthur and Wayne returned in April. Of the seven derbies I ran he placed in five with 4 wins and a second. 

Mary Howley was running the winner, it might have been Lottie. The dog aged out in July . There were no trials because of the National Amateur break. He went on be QAA and Jamed some Amateurs. He was retired after his second treatment for Lyme disease. A super pheasant dog having thousands of birds shot over him.


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## chester (Mar 26, 2006)

GoodDog said:


> I am going to have to agree with Bur Oak. The best marking dog I have personally seen is FC/AFC Taylorlabs Downtown Dusty Brown. I was shooting the flyer in the Open for the KC Retriever Clubs field trial last fall, a lot of big name dogs, and Dusty was amazing on Friday.


FC AFC Taylorlab Downtown Dusty Brown

I agree, I have seen Dusty run several times and have been blown away by his marking!


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Tim West said:


> Bill, I think I won that Derby she made a mistake at! It didn't happen very often. Queezy either won the trial or bombed it, and she didn't bomb it but once or twice her entire Derby career.
> 
> I think one of the best markers out there on our circuit, and maybe the country, is Trumarc's Little Miss Pogo, owned and handled by John and Martha Russell. I've seen her win two double headers and she usually stomps on the water marks. Multiple National finalist, too. Great blind runner and a really fun dog to watch.


She (Pogo.) is a pleasure to be around. Super disposition. Just a great lil girl.


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## Mark Chase (Jul 24, 2003)

I haven't been in the FT game for a long period of time and have not had the pleasure to see some of the finest FT dogs run ( Lottie, Lean Mac, Auggie, etc.), but I would have to give my vote to Cody's Cut a Lean Grade (Grady). I have witnessed Chad run this dog on some phenomenal marks and seen him stand on them. I have watched him run since he was a puppy and he had an outstanding derby career and AA career which is only getting better.


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## kindakinky (Dec 11, 2008)

Well, I'm not a scientist and just kind of am trying to get a more basic view. When retrievers are running corn fields after several freezes, that stuff is whipping back into dogs' eyes like knifes. If the dogs had real prominent, front-facing eyes, they might be subject to greater eye injuries.

Same thing in grouse woods, since the nice grouse cover is about immature aspen cover and that means more supple, snapping branches.

I just thought the people on this board are so steeped in retriever knowledge, someone might have actually done a study on eye placement. 

I like obliquely placed eyes because I am only a hunter. I figure a dog who has a large, but not prominent, and obliquely placed eye will have better defense against eye injury and more peripheral vision. However, forward placing eyes may lead to better marking ability. Or maybe not.

I just enjoy trying to figure out how all the retriever breeds ended up looking sort of like each other because of what previous hunter/owners did as far as breeding. And how the setter/pointer/collie/herding dog influences initially impacted and changed each of the retriever breeds.

J. Marti





Aussie said:


> Gawd you are as bad as me LOL. Thinking about future years when we can add eagle or hawk eye DNA.
> 
> One of our early Australian training books, written by a scientist showed pictures of the affect of the wind and its movement. Being married to a physicist whose special interest is sound - sound waves etc...gosh I can go off center sometimes.


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Just came across this. Interestingly, I got into FTs in 2009. The best marker I have seen with my own eyes is Bullet, hands down.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Scott Greenwood said:


> Just wondering what everyone that of when it comes to the best marking dog that they have ever seen. I have a little one in training now that can mark with the best dogs twice her age. Lets see what you think.


'Buster' . 
He was the best I have seen . Shooting Teal when the light is low over 10 feet high reeds , that Boy would go straight to the fall wherever it landed 
He is the 3rd one from the left . He could bust some cover too... 
Long time dead now of course ,haven't seen one like it since.


Closest to him was 'Dee' , she had that 'attitude in her eye' ..


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Mike W. said:


> Just came across this. Interestingly, I got into FTs in 2009. The best marker I have seen with my own eyes is Bullet, hands down.


I agree with you on Bullet, but Ritz is right up there. Being out west I didn't have the pleasure of see a lot of mid west and east coast dogs, but I got to see Auggie run since derby, I'd place him up there as well.


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## fnsret (Nov 12, 2003)

I haven't seen the majority of the dogs mentioned run, but I remember as a young grade school pooper scooper and bird boy I threw birds for FC AFC Watchim Sneak, the 1971 Derby Champ, HOF,, over 140 AA points and qualified for 10 Nationals. Wow, that dog could find a needle in a haystack, no matter what the setup he always knew where the bird was, back then I thought all the dogs were supposed to mark that way. Boy was I mistaken  Got to remember this was the pre-collar days and you didn't teach a dog to handle until after they were 2. Dogs needed pure marking skills. I was very lucky and grateful.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Watch out for a young male named "Fresh Squeezed Juice"...
> 
> He'll have some impressive letters after his name soon enough.
> 
> ...


Good call Chris. You should have doubled down in Vegas on that one.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Earl's Cricket was deadly and when I saw her granddaughter Flip she reminded me of her so much


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## wayne anderson (Oct 16, 2007)

Just caught up with this thread. Carl Ruffalo's Lucky (FC-AFC E-Lynn's Super Strike Lucky) was one of the best pure markers I have ever seen, back in the day.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

the best marking dogs I have personally witnessed as a birdboy for were Chad Baker's dogs Grady and Louie (Candlewoods Luby Lou). Chad would set up some tough marks and when those two came to the end of the line to the marks it sounded like a freight train a coming. I personally rememer one mark that the fall was right behind a log and both smacked it. The son of Louie that I own is pretty good also. His biggest hunt so far in 7 years has been about a 5 yard diameter AOF.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

bjoiner said:


> Good call Chris. You should have doubled down in Vegas on that one.


Yeah. That's pretty funny. When I wrote that in 2009, I had just come off the honor of being the human portion of a dog/handler team at a Mike Lardy workshop. Pat was still there at Mike's. We got to know Juice and Pat running derbies with them prior to the workshop. 

In those 4 or 5 days, I got to watch Juice step on mark after mark. In addition to other dog/handler teams, some titled client dogs ran - ones with letters in their names. Nobody out-marked Juice that week, from what I remember. I remember having zero doubt that as long as Juice stayed healthy, he'd be a champion. 

One other memory: Michael Jackson passed away while we spent the long weekend in Montello. 

Another hotshot that made an impression on me at that '09 workshop was a young man named Brady Collins. I figured as long as he stayed in the game, he'd become a name we all know. I think that's happening as I type and I forecast a good 2017 trial season for Brady and his/clients' dogs. 

Chris


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

the best bitches I've seen run are Kweezy, Showthyme and maggie mcbunn


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

The best markers I've known were Girlie & Talon. Each of them edged us out twice for AA wins!  lol


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Yeah. That's pretty funny. When I wrote that in 2009, I had just come off the honor of being the human portion of a dog/handler team at a Mike Lardy workshop. Pat was still there at Mike's. We got to know Juice and Pat running derbies with them prior to the workshop.
> 
> In those 4 or 5 days, I got to watch Juice step on mark after mark. In addition to other dog/handler teams, some titled client dogs ran - ones with letters in their names. Nobody out-marked Juice that week, from what I remember. I remember having zero doubt that as long as Juice stayed healthy, he'd be a champion.
> 
> ...


And,

Brady Collins gets a 2nd and a 3rd in the Open at Bluegrass this weekend! 

I wish I could pick horses at the track like this.

Chris


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Watch out for a young male named "Fresh Squeezed Juice"...
> 
> He'll have some impressive letters after his name soon enough.
> 
> ...


And the first text I received tonight after Juicebox was announced as winner was from MJH. Who, has shared many of our collective fondnesses for Juice. 

I am so glad for NFC Juice and all of his people. Congratulations to Mark and Suzanne,
Jim and Trish, Pat, Mike, Dave, Ray and of course Marilyn!

the list goes on....


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## fetchtx (May 12, 2005)

3xNFC- FC-AFC Candlewood's Tanks A Lot


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

All our opinions are based on personal views. I suggest if you seen them run the proof would be in buying their "direct off-spring". FC-AFC-NACFC-CFC Ace's High III. 88-98-2012(test tube). All with different bitches. Opinions are like snowflakes but money counts for some.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

bjoiner said:


> Good call Chris. You should have doubled down in Vegas on that one.



Hey Bubba, I bet when you wrote this, you had no idea that this same dog, nearly 11 years old, would be winning the national title in your back yard!


You and I both should have double down!


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## Steve Babcock (Dec 3, 2005)

I shot a lot of hen pheasants for Ammo. Ammo and Ritz were the best I ever worked with


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Plourdes Honor O' Fox Hill; Call name Love, owned and handled by Sandi McCourt.


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## Glenn Norton (Oct 23, 2011)

For my money.....the answer is Creek Robber. Ran several trials against him and he demonstrated some mind boggling marking.


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## Wayne Nissen (Dec 31, 2009)

John Robinson said:


> I trained with Ritz (FC-AFC DB's Cracker of Club Mead), for about seven years, very difficult set ups almost every day, I never and I mean never saw him fail a mark. Push bird, check down, big swim, whatever, he always knew where the bird was and there wasn't anything that would keep him from getting it. God knows Ritz had isues, but marking wasn't one of them.
> John


I have the last straw from Dust Devil's last Spark (Blaze) brother of Ritz. My now 13 year old male out Ritz all aged at 2.5 years. waiting on the right female to use the straw.


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Pat Martin's "Dougan" day in and day out was an incredible pin point marker. On a retired mark he would mark the breast feathers...


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

Never saw him but heard many stories and related to many of the aforementioned Harley line dogs-Cosmo- anyone care to share


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## Twin Willows Labs (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm still very new to this, but Roxie was one hell of a marker too. Every time I saw her in the 4th series, she was just head and shoulders above everyone else. I was also very impressed by Nitro at this year's NARC.


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## Moosegoosee (Jun 23, 2006)

Gooser asked me to tell all you "Miserable SOB, to have a happy Thanksgiving! Also,, HE says (these are his words) That grumpy Dr Ed guys Holland can mark "Pretty Good"


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Moosegoosee said:


> Gooser asked me to tell all you "Miserable SOB, to have a happy Thanksgiving! Also,, HE says (these are his words) That grumpy Dr Ed guys Holland can mark "Pretty Good"


We miss Gooser!!!!!!!!!!!

I've seen a lot of the dogs mentioned many times, especially those in our part of the country. 

Every dog has their day, some just have it more often & are consistent in 
their performance. Those are the dogs that should be talked about on this thread. 

Poor setups can make a mediocre dog look awfully good. Blame that on the judges.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

cakaiser said:


> We ran against Jamie a lot. He was special in every way. And, a real character, stuffed with personality.
> Always remember walking by him in the back seat of the truck. Would stop to say hi, he would talk right back to me.
> 
> The day Steve and Emily told me about his heart, still brings tears to think of it. A very wonderful dog.


 Charlotte what about Jamie's heart?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Bridget Bodine said:


> Charlotte what about Jamie's heart?


http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?64893-Teddy-Ebonstar-James


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## David McCracken (May 24, 2009)

I judge a lot of HRC hunt tests. I'm not going to comment on any one dog that was the best marker, but in general, some of the best markers I've seen, at hunt test distances, are Spaniels; Boykin's and American Water Spaniels. Out to 100 yards, the Spaniels I've judged are marking machines and have terrific memories. I'll probably catch a lot of flack for this post, but this is my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Sharpie - fine point. Best marker on the market.

Actually, one of the best marking dogs I have ever seen is a dog from a no name breeding. Pin point marker every time I have ever seen him run (hunt tests). Hard to say how far he will go - first time handler/owner and control issues ... but the dog sure can mark.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

This is an old thread, so I might be repeating myself, but I was super impressed with Bullet the few times I saw him run.


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