# Petstore Got Me Today!



## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

I went in looking for training treats for working with my young pups today. I particularly like the "Little Jacs" b/c they are small and easy for puppy's to swallow. They were down to $1.50/bag so I think I bought 15 bags  I also really wanted a wide variety of toys for the pups and older dogs. Wound up getting these:

Treats: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3089779

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3598017&lmdn=Dog+Toys

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3206970&lmdn=Dog+Toys

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3641000&lmdn=Price

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3207115

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3971921

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3975699 (Great puppy toy b/c of legs in the face)

Also picked up various pheasant, goose, squeak toys. I am using a wide variety of toys, shapes, sounds and interactive types. 

I went nuts today...$150 at petsmart haha A friend pointed out that I don't even spend that on my g/f  My g/f didn't like the comment but she was part of the spending spree.



Never ever spoil your dog right


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Let me know what your girl friend thinks a the gas that gonna come outa that puppy after them treats!!:razz:

Worse than Tater chip farts!!

Gooser


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Congratulations! You have just spent a fortune on Chinese junk. I hope your dog does not die. If you don't give a hoot about our own country's economy, you might want to think twice about your dog's health.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

wow one of you forum freaks...i'm shocked. Its sad that you go through life so angry.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Jeff, you just posted 7 ads for a huge pet store that does not care about anything that matters to us here on RTF. Yes, it ticked me off. I acknowledge that you might be a new guy, but that is just not right. Most folks here know I do not "go off" frequently, but this just really bothered me. If you want to buy that stuff for your dogs, go ahead, but do not post the ads here.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

1. My name is Shaun Stuto. Not Jeff. 2. I live in Missoula, MT. i have about 2 places in the entire town to buy supplies. 3. I'm not a new guy. I've been a member here 2 years longer than you have. I just do not regualarly participate in the discussions. For all you know, I could have purchased these items at a local boy store. You didn't even ask. I'm hardly looking to advertise petsmart and am not a fan of their overpriced imported crap. However, its the only place I have to shop. I was only showing the items I bought. 4. We live in a global economy whether you like it or not. This will likely never contract. Spend your productive energy on things you CAN change and control.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I think we need to move this to the POTUS forum. I still can not believe you dare to promote PetSmart. I have chosen to use my productive energy by calling bs when I see it. I am no longer a silent american.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

I believe I said above that I am NOT here to promote Petsmart.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Man, look at your own first post here! You listed 7 links that were PetSMart links! I am not attacking you, just the gratuitous promotion of what I consider an evil business! Maybe we should just start over. How do you train your dogs? Are you FT, HT GunDog or what? My dogs are a bunch of useless currs that I hate to pay the feed bill for.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Thank you for taking the high road Carol. The last thing I do is get on the internet at 11:00 p.m. on a Saturday night looking to piss off strangers. I hope I clarified my stance sufficiently for you regarding the "evil business." To hell with Petsmart.

I'm an avid dog trainer and duck hunter. I enjoy all type of training really. I don't compete in FT or HT but train in such a manner. My male is a Patton pup. 

i have interest in a variety of training including AKC obedience, personal protection, etc...

My dogs are hunting machines and get plenty of work every year.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

I'm here to celebrate new pups and a renewed vigor and opportunity for training with a full kennel at home.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

And I my friend, am an avid wannabe. I have a 6 year old wild ass lab, a 3 year old comedian of a chessie, and an almost 1 year old lab pup that god only knows how he is going to come out with our gypsy lifestyle! The first dog was bought to be a hunting partner, and it just never came to be. We have a great time training, traveling and testing or trialing. 

Sincerely, I hope our future conversations will be more productive. I have decided not to sit down and listen anymore to promotion of corporate or marketing bs. I guess you just fell in to the pitt! Sorry.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

So where do you shop?


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I don't. Mostly I make my own stuff for treats and such. I buy kennels, beds, dishes, etc. from US companies. I used to have to buy my dog food from PetSmart, PETCO, etc, but now have been able to find local feed dealers that would bring it in for me on a regular basis. It is not always easy, but it is always right to find a way to buy local.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

We have murdochs here which is like Tractor Supply. I buy as much as I can from them. They are a large warehouse store and overpriced. I order from companies like gundogsupply.com, j&j dog supply. I'm a local business owner here in town and I am a huge supporter of shopping local as well. I see things differently as a local business owner. While big companies like Petsmart and Walmart might be corporate powers, I still establish relationships and trust with the employees which is a good thing for my own business. This is a positive thing and "necessary eveil." With the amount of dogs I have now, I'd like to find out how to rep for Pro-Plan.

Do you have any recipes for small treats for training pups? Must be small and not take much energy to consume.


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

Shaun,

I have a couple of dogs that would love to come and steal.....errrr, play... with some of those new toys you bought your dog!! Not too sure how long the octopus would last though!! LOL Thanks for posting the links.....there were a couple of those toys I have not seen and I bet my dogs would enjoy playing with those toys.

If you ever want to do some shopping for your dog online, take a look at http://www.jbpet.com (although you might not want to do any price comparing to some of the toys you bought today....LOL)


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

Did someone hack your account and put a jeff foiles quote in your sig line or did you do that on purpose?


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## John Kelder (Mar 10, 2006)

Chris Rosier said:


> Did someone hack your account and put a jeff foiles quote in your sig line or did you do that on purpose?


Was wondering how long before someone noticed that little tidbit.......


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Looks like Carol was in a bad mood last night.  

I only saw a guy posting some light-hearted stuff about buying some treats.

I'm making a trip to PetSmart to buy two 40 lb bags of Euk Premium Performance. It's not a commercial. It's a fact. It is where that food is sold in my town. It is what I choose to feed my dogs. 

Eukanuba is an american product, made by P&G, HQ'd in Cincinnati, OH. Some of the ingredients in which, come from Decatur, IL (where I live) and are a product of the corn wet milling industry, in which I make my living and support my family. 

I'm assuming something else made Carol in a bad mood last night and Slayin just caught you in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Slayin', welcome to RTF. 

Chris


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Chris Rosier said:


> Did someone hack your account and put a jeff foiles quote in your sig line or did you do that on purpose?


Or maybe he thought it was a cool line he saw on a bumper sticker or t-shirt, and felt it motivated him to go hunt with his dogs when he'd rather sleep in some days.

Chris


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Looks like Carol was in a bad mood last night.
> 
> I only saw a guy posting some light-hearted stuff about buying some treats.
> 
> ...


Agree with you Chris Should not come out at someone who was just trying to show you what he purchased for his pet. Educate yes but not be in a really bad mood about it and hop all over someone!!


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Shaun,
FWIW, string cheese makes a pretty good training treat except in warm weather, then it melts in your pockets.


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## Grasshopper (Sep 26, 2007)

The soft Pounce kitty snacks work well too. They're easy to break into multiple pieces and the little bity crumbs are easy to dump out of your pocket. Plus the cats appreciate any leftovers!

Kathryn


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

I love string cheese!! However in my quest to reduce my butt size, I have gone to all sorts of Wellness treats and homemade deer jerky. Otherwise I'm not sure who eats more treats the dogs or myself. I did make a petsmart purchase the other day for Zek-a really nice dog bed made by that jail-bird USA born business woman Martha. I love it, Zek loves it and it's staying. The local pet store-run by a super nice local guy gets the majority of my business, but he hasn't ventured into buying the pricey dog beds. 

Weezie is from Missoula MT. Small world. That's another story that would likely result in much mud slinging, but lets not go there. Welcome back to RTF Shaun and I love the fact that you buy your dogs toys and let them be dogs.


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## Chris Videtto (Nov 4, 2010)

I use these for training only.......they are like puppy crack! On the expensive side though!!


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

For puppy training treats I use tiny pieces of raw hot dogs. They just slide down with no chewing and all of my dogs LOVED them!

Andy


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Pals said:


> I love string cheese!! However in my quest to reduce my butt size, I have gone to all sorts of Wellness treats and homemade deer jerky. Otherwise I'm not sure who eats more treats the dogs or myself. I did make a petsmart purchase the other day for Zek-a really nice dog bed made by that jail-bird USA born business woman Martha. I love it, Zek loves it and it's staying. The local pet store-run by a super nice local guy gets the majority of my business, but he hasn't ventured into buying the pricey dog beds.
> 
> Weezie is from Missoula MT. Small world. That's another story that would likely result in much mud slinging, but lets not go there. Welcome back to RTF Shaun and I love the fact that you buy your dogs toys and let them be dogs.


 
Mrs Gooser bought some sort a treat fer her little guy to use at training days!
She put them(Hid) in a little purse lookin thing.
I thought they was some sort a homemade jerky deals, she was hidin fer herself!!
I was sneakin them in my hand and muchin on em durin Bronco games.
Theys was perty good.
Mrs Gooser noticed that her supply was a dwindlin, and asked me if I was feedin Scotty his treats when She wasnt home.:shock:

I just smiled and said YES!!!

So,,, whats in them petsmart treats thats gonna kill me??
Cant be any worse than bamboo kin it??
Theys actually perty good!
Just make ya fart!!

As far as BUTT size.
Mrs Gooser has a bumper sticker that says:
"Yes my Ass is to big,, but I married him anyway"

Carol!!

I get Moody too sometimes!!! What works for me is to go next door and sniff the smoke that comes outa this really fancy Vase the neighbor gots!!
Its wonderful!! makes me see colors,, and crave Cheezy Poofs!!
Them Farts is like Mustard gass compared to Tater Chip Farts!!

Gooser


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Shawn,

When I read your post my husband made a smart arse comment: "He must be related to you!" I told him that I didn't spend quiet that much and the large quantity I already have from all my other dogs don't count....all puppies need their own new toys!

I personally think it was awesome to see you spoiling your pup and trying to find different type of toys like it is suggested in Sound Beginings. I could give two flips where you shopped and I apologize that Carol lumped all of us RTFers into one group! 

Please tells about your pup and pictures are required!! 

FOM

Ps - I like to buy toys for the puppy in multiple outings, this way once the puppy is properly vaccinated I can take them with me to pick out their own toys and to socialize them!


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Ya Know??

Ya'll are Crazy!!!:razz:

Takes one to know one regards:

Gooser


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Knowing what Carol and her husband have gone through the past couple of years I guess I have more empathy for her and her position, and understand it even though she expressed it a bit strongly - although took the high road when all said and and done.

Shaun took care of it himself - which i always appreciate. And, I look forward to hearing about his new pup! 

I don't frequent PetSmart - too pricey for me.


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## Mistyriver (May 19, 2005)

Wow, I buy all my dog supplies from Petco or Petsmart Carol! I guess I am off your Christmas list now?


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## Quackwacker (Aug 16, 2011)

The best training treats are off brand cheese its! cheap cheap cheap


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

I even have a Petsmart card...


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Carol, you have made 2 pretty unkind posts in a row. I don't think this person deserved this sort of treatment - especially by an RTF regular.
> 
> I personally would prefer for RTF to not be considered as the place where regulars jump folks who are pretty obviously just writing fun things about their pets. This guy got jumped.
> 
> Chris


Any of you guys kin ALWAYS jump Gooser!!!

Gooser


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## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

Don't want to get in the middle of "hate" Petco or Petsmart. I do buy a lot of my dog supplies via mail because they are often cheaper (even with postage) and there is a better variety and less of an impulse buy. Some sites to Google are try are Omaha Vaccine (Now Pet Supplies Delivered out of Omaha, Nebraska), Care-A-Lot Pet Supply in VA and JB Wholesale Pet Supplies in NJ. I am sure there are plenty more. I also like to hit our local Tractor and Supply once in a while. Check out http://acadiaantlers.weebly.com/ too!


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I apologize to the op and to rtf for my lack of control. If I explain any further I will just be getting political again. There is another place for that. This is my 4th attempt to post from my I phone so had better hit the send.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XlYj1iyAlk


Gooser


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I dont buy my Cheezy Poofs at Walmart!!

I think Walmart has a campain to make us all drive little itty bity cars!
Their parkin spaces are all to small.

The big spaces are all out back near where all the red necks park their rickty old travel trailers.
If Ya park yer truck out there,, when Ya come out,, BuBa will be sittin up on the side rails drinkin a beer with his **** Hound!!

So I buy my Cheezy Poofs at the Kum and Go!!!


Gooser


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Just picked up two bags of Pro Plan form Petsmart

Flame away


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

MooseGooser said:


> Mrs Gooser bought some sort a treat fer her little guy to use at training days!
> She put them(Hid) in a little purse lookin thing.
> I thought they was some sort a homemade jerky deals, she was hidin fer herself!!
> I was sneakin them in my hand and muchin on em durin Bronco games.
> ...


 
Why does this not surprise me??!! You ate his treats! Poor little Scotty--this will likely traumatize him and turn him into a nasty, snapping, rotten little dog. See what you did!! ;-)


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## awolfe (Mar 2, 2011)

"All puppies need their own new toys!

I personally think it was awesome to see you spoiling your pup and trying to find different type of toys like it is suggested in Sound Beginings. "

What can you share with me about Sound Beginnings and pups/toys? Same boat here.....pup who needs toys. Further info appreciated....

--Andrea


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Pals said:


> Why does this not surprise me??!! You ate his treats! Poor little Scotty--this will likely traumatize him and turn him into a nasty, snapping, rotten little dog. See what you did!! ;-)


I went with Mrs Gooser to her and Scottys socialization class yesterday!
Scotty did really well.... errrr ... after the instructor told me to go sit on my hands in the corner.
I got in trouble cause I follered him through the tunnel thing!!


Gooser


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

MooseGooser said:


> I went with Mrs Gooser to her and Scottys socialization class yesterday!
> Scotty did really well.... errrr ... after the instructor told me to go sit on my hands in the corner.
> I got in trouble cause I follered him through the tunnel thing!!
> 
> ...


 
Must be some good treats! lol


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Okay what are Cheezy Poofs???


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Okay what are Cheezy Poofs???












.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Okay what are Cheezy Poofs???


Click for Cheesy Poofs Explanation


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## Erin Lynes (Apr 6, 2008)

Grasshopper said:


> The soft Pounce kitty snacks work well too. They're easy to break into multiple pieces and the little bity crumbs are easy to dump out of your pocket. Plus the cats appreciate any leftovers!
> 
> Kathryn


x2 On soft cat treats!


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

I rarely buy petstore treats because they are so full of artificial color, flavor and preservatives, but the "Yummy Chummy" salmon treats that Costco have during the fall/winter are always a favorite here-- healthy and from Alaska! I buy the big string cheese packages at Costco as well. If I see beef liver on sale at the store, I'll make my own liver treats and toss them in the freezer to use as desired. I used to use a lot of hot dogs, but not so much anymore as I try to keep it as healthy as possible. 

I'm generally appalled at Petco/Petsmart high prices so unless I need some Euk puppy food, I steer clear. I like Omaha Vaccine (Pet supplies Delivered) and Revival for most of my dog supplies and toys, though I find I rarely have to buy toys anymore if I'm running agility trials since they usually give you toys as a handler's gift.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

SOUTH PARK.
Eric Cartman is a Kid who stars in a Documentary of a Colorado mountain town.
Its very educational,, and gives a different perspective of everyday life above timberline.

Its my favorite intellectual show.
Much Much better than 60 minutes.

Gooser


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

MooseGooser said:


> SOUTH PARK.
> Eric Cartman is a Kid who stars in a Documentary of a Colorado mountain town.
> Its very educational,, and gives a different perspective of everyday life above timberline.
> 
> ...


Eric, is also a cat trainer. "Bad kitty! This is my pot pie".


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

awolfe said:


> "All puppies need their own new toys!
> 
> I personally think it was awesome to see you spoiling your pup and trying to find different type of toys like it is suggested in Sound Beginings. "
> 
> ...


I step away for a few hours and this light-hearted thread went haywire. Carol and I worked it out between ourselves in about 2 minutes. We are already over it.

Let me clarify. I have a house full of dogs. A 7 year old patton male from Mike Beadle, A 3 year old 85 pound GORGEOUS high drive female that we were sort of suckered into "watching for the night" (almost one year ago. We were also informed that she was spayed. Turned out to not be true.) So my Patton male and her birthed 11 Patton x Unknown Lab pups the day before duck season opened this year. I'm selling them off cheap without papers and have developed a bond with a little female I've named "June." She is a ball of energy, loves to work, and already performing well and showing a ton of courage. My g/f bonded with a male in the litter. I'm not keen on two pups at the same time, but can still make it work. We have two 10 week old females still for sale that will make outstanding meat dogs. Everybody has their individual training sessions each night. Hell, I am teaching mama Stella how to AKC obedience heel and we were doing that at 2:30 in the morning last night.

I've trained dogs since I was 8 years old and am 31. I've spent an unreal amount of time studying the various methods of pros and amateurs in a wide variety of dog sports. I've studied and practiced the training, handling and trialing of dogs since I was 15 when I saw my first hunt test dog taking hand signals on in a grass field and was blown away.

As far what can I share, I will say that my personal knowledge comes from the study and practice of a wide variety of dog sports. One observation is the prevalence of escape-avoidance training in retriever training, and the high frequency of poor performance outcomes in attitude by inexperienced and impatient trainers. 

Marker based training as used by Mike Ellis http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=529 is the most powerful type of training tool for teaching a dog HOW to learn I have seen. I do predict that we will see more of an integration of reward based training used in trial dogs. Every other dog sport has gone in this direction and realized you cannot achieve the level of enthusiasm, precision, style and understanding with escape-avoidance/punishment based style of training exclusively. 

For years, I beat my chest and was too macho for it. Now I respect the hell out of the clicker or marker style of reward base training for early bonding and educating. One thing I learned years ago was the more you teach a pup, the more it can learn. 

So now at 10 weeks old we are shaping and luring all kinds of behaviors that the pups are understanding (not as commands, but as behaviors that proactively get the puppy seeking a reward) sit, down, 2 sided heel, front finish, crawl, roll over, jump, watch, turn/spin, touch, shake hands, etc... The more you teach them, the more they can learn. I regularly train dogs in multiple language english, french, and german. Again, its another layer to deepen their understanding. 
"Sit, down, stand" is another drill to help the dog truly understand these positions with command only and no physical cues (stand up straight, no facial expressions).

Once you teach the dog how to work for you, and how to understand exactly what it is you want, and pinpoint it, the better the dog will perform b/c you are communicating with him. An example that comes to mind would be a cheating single and teaching the concept of going straight. There are so many teaching moments in a drill like this that with a marker (verbal "Yes" aka "conditioned reinforcer") you can mark exactly when it made a good decision, or precisely identify when the dog made the wrong decision "No" or "ugh uh" (non-reinforcement marker). 

If you watch the video I posted, it will make more sense. He covers everything in detail and is a world renowned trainer of Schutzhund, AKC Obedience, and Ring Sport dogs. 

That being said, I still follow Lardy's system and Evan G's FF and regularly use escape-avoidance compulsion training as well. I prefer Connie Cleveland's style of teaching obedience over the old-school neck jerking method. I use food and toys to build motivation and maintain attitude. For stressful drills such as force fetch, force to pile, using toys and play is a way I maintain a positive attitude. I'm growing more and more interested, however, in how we as trainers could use more marker based training with retrievers. With the new collars that vibrate, beep, etc...its easy to build a precise marker at a distance. Until now, our challenge has been positively re-inforcing the dogs effort at a distance. Before the advent of new collars, the only motivation he worked towards was the trainer not blowing the whistle, as Lardy describes extensively. There is nothing particularly exciting about it for the trainer and dog.

I hope this answers your question and gives a little insight into my methods, philosophy and style of training.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Quote:

That being said, I still follow Lardy's system and Evan G's FF and regularly use escape-avoidance compulsion training as well. I prefer Connie Cleveland's style of teaching obedience over the old-school neck jerking method.


Its interesting to hear you say this considering your profession!:razz:

I got this pain In my neck>..........:razz:


Gooser


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

We call that a "crick" here in Missoula Gooser!


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

We call it "significant other " in Colorado!:razz:

Gooser


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Pals said:


> I love string cheese!! However in my quest to reduce my butt size, I have gone to all sorts of Wellness treats and homemade deer jerky.



Does that mean you don't want me to send any more care packages of your special favorite string cheese from the Rudolph cheese factory?? Weezie will be deprived....


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## dpate (Mar 16, 2011)

slayin67 said:


> Marker based training as used by Mike Ellis http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=529 is the most powerful type of training tool for teaching a dog HOW to learn I have seen. I do predict that we will see more of an integration of reward based training used in trial dogs. Every other dog sport has gone in this direction and realized you cannot achieve the level of enthusiasm, precision, style and understanding with escape-avoidance/punishment based style of training exclusively.


Michael Ellis is the best. His methods get tremendous results and he explains everything more clearly than anyone else I've seen. Anyone with a performance dog should be a student of his methods.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

I just bought chapter one of training dogs with food on demand. Michael Ellis has expanded my vision for the potential for advanced skills and style in retriever training.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

My biggest concern with PetsMart is that they support the HSUS.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

slayin67 said:


> We call that a "crick" here in Missoula Gooser!


well, where I grew up, a crick and a creek were also the same thing.........


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

JusticeDog said:


> well, where I grew up, a crick and a creek were also the same thing.........


Yep...same here.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Same here


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

JusticeDog said:


> well, where I grew up, a crick and a creek were also the same thing.........


Gooser is quite possibly from another planet though!


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Dman said:


> My biggest concern with PetsMart is that they support the HSUS.


there isnt a big name Pet product company that doesnt contribute to HSUS, its almost like paying extortion money, they may not be down with all their practices but its good business practice on their part to keep them as an ally instead of having them as protesters


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Or maybe he thought it was a cool line he saw on a bumper sticker or t-shirt, and felt it motivated him to go hunt with his dogs when he'd rather sleep in some days.
> 
> Chris


Sorry Guys, 

I did not realize it really was a quote of Foiles. I thought it was just words that could have been a Foiles quote and did not realize that his name was specifically mentioned.

Shaun,

I'm not sure if you're aware of what's happened with Jeff, but I'd think you'd probably not be proudly displaying Jeff's quotes about killing stuff right now.

Chris


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Sorry Guys,
> 
> I did not realize it really was a quote of Foiles. I thought it was just words that could have been a Foiles quote and did not realize that his name was specifically mentioned.
> 
> ...


I'm aware of what's going on with Jeff. I still agree with what he said, and its a quote I hunt by. When others stay home b/c its cold or slow, I'm usually out. This was the first weekend of the season I haven't been out. I respect Foiles' intensity and outlaw spirit. He's a hardcore hunter and I consider myself to be as well. What Jeff has done is wrong and he is paying for it with fines and jail time. In a sport FULL of law breakers, Foiles is the fall guy. There are plenty of hunters who hunt out of season, shoot over their limits, dump birds, bring extra shells, hunt drunk, intoxicated on street drugs and pain killers, kill big game in regions they are not permitted, kill horses and cows, kill game without a tag, and so on. I don't want to see Jeff Foiles ostracized from the sport he truly loves and has helped popularize.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Those guys arnt HUNTERS my friend!

Gooser


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

slayin67 said:


> ... I respect Foiles' intensity and outlaw spirit. He's a hardcore hunter.....


and the Dukes of Hazard is a wonderful television program emphasizing safe driving habits.
　
.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

MooseGooser said:


> Those guys arnt HUNTERS my friend!
> 
> Gooser


I think you know what I mean... 

Do you guys always turn every word into a debate? I come online to get away from nagging geez


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

MooseGooser said:


> Those guys arnt HUNTERS my friend!
> 
> Gooser


I'm pretty sure the word is "poacher".


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Killin somebodys horse is a lot worse than poachin!!



Gooser


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

MooseGooser said:


> Killin somebodys horse is a lot worse than poachin!!
> 
> 
> 
> Gooser


Killing a horse??


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

It happens every elk season in Montana. People kill horses and cows thinking they are elk. In some cases they kill them knowingly. Heard about a guy who spray painted "COW" on his cow and found it shot dead in his pasture. 

Heard about another guy chasing a big buck that drove through 5 or 6 fences all spray painted orange (no hunting) with guns out the window blasting away. 

Foiles in the fall guy b/c he's a big name. It doesn't justify his actions by any means. He's done a TON of good for the sport too.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

slayin67 said:


> ....Do you guys always turn every word into a debate? I come online to get away from nagging geez


 
Our RTF responses are like dog training. We do not nag, but make meaningful corrections with appropriate stimuli.;-)
　
　
.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> Our RTF responses are like dog training. We do not nag, but make meaningful corrections with appropriate stimuli.;-)
> 
> 
> .


Chocolate works better than electricity if you are trying to influence me...


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Margret Thatcher on a cold day,, Margret Thatcher on a cold day,, Margret Thatcher on a cold day!!


Gooser


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

slayin67 said:


> Do you guys always turn every word into a debate? I come online to get away from nagging geez


Dude, you are sooooo preachin to the choir on that one!


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Those that can do...those that can't teach and preach!


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

slayin67 said:


> Chocolate works better than electricity if you are trying to influence me...


my name ain't Jiminy Cricket
I ain't sittin' on your shoulder.
The only thing that can truly influence you 
is staring back at you from the bathroom mirror.
he who you defend, is not defendable.
I mean, just look at the goofy names of some of the duck calls?????
It's not all about the kill, or the number, but the hunt itself.
None of us here would ever be able to help you get that.
It's up to you.
　
.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

slayin67 said:


> Those that can do...those that can't teach and preach!


those that can, do it by the rules.
those that cant.........
　
.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

"It's not all about the kill, or the number, but the hunt itself.
None of us here would ever be able to help you get that.
It's up to you."

What you believe to be true is true for YOU and YOU only. This is YOUR reality. I won't be told what mine is. Do you speak for EVERYBODY on this forum? You don't know what I get or don't get, know or don't know from a few posts of pure ribbing and banter.


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## jeff evans (Jun 9, 2008)

MooseGooser said:


> Those guys arnt HUNTERS my friend!
> 
> Gooser


The problem with Jeff Foiles is... he was using a "C" tag illegally. You know the "C" tag...."see it, shoot it, shovel and shutup!" 
This foiles guy should have more respect for water fowl hunting than he shows...


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## jeff evans (Jun 9, 2008)

slayin67 said:


> I just bought chapter one of training dogs with food on demand. Michael Ellis has expanded my vision for the potential for advanced skills and style in retriever training.


Hey...dont mean to pick on you, but was interested in your thought on this??


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Integrity is doin the right thing even when nobodys lookin.

Some people have it,, Many dont.

Integrity, ethics, character are lost words it seems.

Gooser


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

slayin67 said:


> ......You don't know what I get or don't get, know or don't know from a few posts of pure ribbing and banter.


I do know I can't believe what I'm sayin'
I'm in an ETHICS debate with a guy named Slayin'
I see what your selling but I ain't payin'
That guy should stay in jail 'till he is old and grayin'


　
.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> I do know I can't believe what I'm sayin'
> I'm in an ETHICS debate with a guy named Slayin'
> I see what your selling but I ain't payin'
> That guy should stay in jail 'till he is old and grayin'
> ...


HAHAHAHAH touche


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

slayin67 said:


> It happens every elk season in Montana. People kill horses and cows thinking they are elk. In some cases they kill them knowingly. Heard about a guy who spray painted "COW" on his cow and found it shot dead in his pasture.
> 
> Heard about another guy chasing a big buck that drove through 5 or 6 fences all spray painted orange (no hunting) with guns out the window blasting away.
> 
> Foiles in the fall guy b/c he's a big name. It doesn't justify his actions by any means. He's done a TON of good for the sport too.


\

Fair enough...I thought maybe you liked the quotes and weren't aware of the current situation with Jeff. Apparently you are, and have drawn your own conclusions.

It's your choice if you want to leave a quote about killing by Jeff Foiles in your signature line.

If you like that quote because it supports your hunting style, you can probably come up with your own unique version of it - to show what you think as an individual.

If you like that quote because you want to show support for Jeff, that's your call too. 

Breaking game laws is not cool in my book. Anyone who gets punished for breaking game laws is not a fall guy. They're someone who got caught. 

Chris


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

slayin67 said:


> Those that can do...those that can't teach and preach!



.....and those that are smart enough to be real doctors, dont usually end up being chiropractors.

I mean, since we are getting into generalizations here and all......


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

champ said:


> Hey...dont mean to pick on you, but was interested in your thought on this??


Its been a long time since I read or saw something in dog training that made me step back, say WHOA, and re-evaluate everything I "know" thus far. This guys principles, methods, and results are outstanding and he has other world renowned trainers like Ivan Balabanov endorsing HIS seminars. 

AKC obedience, Schutzhund, Agility, Ring Sport have all transitioned away from escape-avoidance methods. The dogs work with a focus, concentration and effort that is unmatched when following marker based programs. This type of attitude cannot be produced through pressure. A guy like Mike Ellis could help retriever trainers expand their methods and communication with the dog to levels never seen before. This first DVD I'm learning from is 3 hours 45 minutes long and all about using food to build drive, interaction, and a working attitude. It doesn't even go into the training specifics yet. It is all about how to get the dogs attitude to a point in training where it is "engaged." Its fascinating to watch.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> \
> 
> Fair enough...I thought maybe you liked the quotes and weren't aware of the current situation with Jeff. Apparently you are, and have drawn your own conclusions.
> 
> ...


So in all of these hunts was Jeff hunting alone? Nobody else knew what was going on? How many of them are on the news, paying over $100k in fines, and doing jail time?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I kinda got on Carol a bit earlier in this thread when one a her nerves got tweeked.

I gave her advice .

I'm goin next door and see if the neighbors got their fancy Vase is lit up!!
Wheres my thumb cymbals??

Gooser


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

MooseGooser said:


> Integrity is doin the right thing even when nobodys lookin.
> 
> Some people have it,, Many dont.
> 
> ...


Wow................ that's pretty deep Gooser... especially for a guy who wears bubbles................ just sayin'


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Chris Rosier said:


> .....and those that are smart enough to be real doctors, dont usually end up being chiropractors.
> 
> I mean, since we are getting into generalizations here and all......


I wasn't smart enough, obviously.


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## 1st retriever (Sep 2, 2008)

We teach the kids in 4-H Dog Project to use food and tons of praise. These kids come in with the backyard dog that never gets touched and it really turns these dogs around. They are more likely to get to come in the house because they are social now. That is how I got my start training. Although my dog was allowed in the house she was crazy. To see a dog start to finish with the kids is pretty cool. Helps kids out a lot as well. I have my first dog that is more praise motivated than food and it is different. Not saying you can't train her with treats, she will eat 'em! lol But just saying "good" makes her tail go 100mph and she smiles.


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## Mistyriver (May 19, 2005)

slayin67 said:


> So in all of these hunts was Jeff hunting alone? Nobody else knew what was going on? How many of them are on the news, paying over $100k in fines, and doing jail time?


Maybe so, but Jeff knew it was illegal also. Doesn't matter who else was with him. He committed a crime and he should do the time! Sorry, but I see nothing good he brought to the sport!


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

JusticeDog said:


> Wow................ that's pretty deep Gooser... especially for a guy who wears bubbles................ just sayin'


At the VERY least......... I BATHE!!!!!

Them was expensive bubbles too.!!

AND THE WHOLE WWW WORLD HAS SEEN IT!!!:razz:

Gooser

Gooser


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

Heres the thing, foiles is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with duck hunting today. He glamorized the gunstickers and "quack kills" crap that motivated 90% of all the frat boys in this country to ask their Daddy's to buy em a duck boat and a 4WD Tahoe so they could paint their faces up and "wack em and stack em". He makes me sick and I hope he shares a cell with a 350 dude named bubba for however long they end up putting his worthless ass in jail for.


OK, I feel better now.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

FinnLandR said:


> Generally, the leader gets the greatest glory, or the harshest criticism, depending upon if the entire effort is sucessful or not. In criminal matters, I would submit that the ringleader gets punished the hardest.
> 
> What is that saying, "How the mighty have fallen?"


This was my contention. A LOT of people broke the law. Foiles paid for it for all of them b/c he is the celebrity. 

To say Foiles did no good for the sport, seems unfair. He's made many videos that I enjoy watching. Granted its hunting porn and not what most people see in the field all the time, but it gets the juices pumping in August when I can wait another day. 

He also worked his ass off building and developing that duck club into a habitat for 1000's of birds. 

Foiles went from an iron worker and laborer to a full-time duck man. He took a huge risk most people never would. He made a lot of money doing what he loves. How many people only wish they could figure this out. His success and celebrity lead to a sense of entitlement and invincibility which happens to a lot of celebs. He screwed up bad. He got busted. Case is closed on him.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I'm goin back over to my neighbors!!

Gooser


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

slayin67 said:


> So in all of these hunts was Jeff hunting alone? Nobody else knew what was going on? How many of them are on the news, paying over $100k in fines, and doing jail time?


No. Jeff had employees and clients hunting with him. Some of them definitely knew what was going on. I don't know how many of them got busted.

When a smalltime worker bee does time due to a minor mafia crime, while the fat mafia cats at the top go on driving their fancy cars and living in their mansions - that little dude is the "fall guy".

Jeff was at the top of the Foiles empire, profitting from gamecall sales, DVD and Video Sales, and a guide service - all of which were capitalizing upon illegally conducted hunts. Jeff was the guy calling the shots at the top of the businesses. He's no fall guy. He's just an outlaw, running outlaw businesses, who got caught.

Jeff's paying the piper now and those are the breaks for big boys who choose to disrespect our game, disrespect our game laws, and generally set crummy examples for what a sportsman should do and should be.

I quit watching Jeff's videos back when he passed out the "blood goggles" to everyone on the couch so they could watch the killin'. 

Slayin', Jeff is extremely fortunate that he's not a felon and that he will one day be able to go afield with a shotgun again. I still don't quite understand how he pulled that off. He must have had a good lawyer and I'd imagine he had some decent financial backing to pay for said legal services. 

Jeff is no fall guy.

Chris


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I brought Her....errr... I mean IT back  with me!!

Aint THIS the Fall Guy???


I's lost again!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4LX8PPMuOY


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> No. Jeff had employees and cleints hunting with him. Some of them definitely knew what was going on. I don't know how many of them got busted.
> 
> When a smalltime worker bee does time due to a minor mafia crime, while the fat mafia cats at the top go on driving their fancy cars and living in their mansions - that little dude is the "fall guy".
> 
> ...


This is duck hunting and not the mafia though Chris. Its not like Jeff is ultra wealthy. I assume he had to sell his half of the duck club to pay his legal expenses and fine of $100k. Fact is, it wasn't just him shooting over the limit. Those other guys deserve tickets or legal punishment as well don't they? Particularly if there is video footage of them doing it! 

Let me be clear. I in NO WAY support Jeff Foiles breaking the law at all. 

I do like that Jeff can make a duck hunting tape entertaining b/c he is a character. He plays a well choreographed character on a DVD series. Most duck hunting tapes before Foiles were painfully boring, red neck, etc...Remember the duck commander scene many years ago in ultra slow motion of them spitting tobacco at a bottle and a shotgun shell? Biting the heads of the ducks? Foiles took something that isn't altogether that exciting to watch on tv and made it entertaining. Its not exciting to watch, its exciting to do. This is what I appreciate about him. He puts in the time and the miles, just like I do. The difference is I hunt alone with the dog most of the time (and not for $$$) b/c I rarely meet people that want to hunt dark to dark when its 10 degrees outside and blowing 30.


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

*"Petstore Got Me Today!"*

Sue


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

slayin67 said:


> This is duck hunting and not the mafia though Chris. Its not like Jeff is ultra wealthy. I assume he had to sell his half of the duck club to pay his legal expenses and fine of $100k. Fact is, it wasn't just him shooting over the limit. Those other guys deserve tickets or legal punishment as well don't they? Particularly if there is video footage of them doing it!
> 
> Let me be clear. I in NO WAY support Jeff Foiles breaking the law at all.
> 
> I do like that Jeff can make a duck hunting tape entertaining b/c he is a character. He plays a well choreographed character on a DVD series. Most duck hunting tapes before Foiles were painfully boring, red neck, etc...Remember the duck commander scene many years ago in ultra slow motion of them spitting tobacco at a bottle and a shotgun shell? Biting the heads of the ducks? Foiles took something that isn't altogether that exciting to watch on tv and made it entertaining. Its not exciting to watch, its exciting to do. This is what I appreciate about him. He puts in the time and the miles, just like I do. The difference is I hunt alone with the dog most of the time (and not for $$$) b/c I rarely meet people that want to hunt dark to dark when its 10 degrees outside and blowing 30.


Jeff Foiles is no fall guy. Jeff Foiles called the shots and profitted from businesses built upon game law violations. He got caught He pays the penalty.

I assure you that Jeff is not the only guy who lost out on this deal. One guy is now dead as a result of the fallout.

He is no fall guy.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Sue Kiefer said:


> *"Petstore Got Me Today!"*
> 
> Sue


I was thinking the same thing...came on here to talk about getting going with new pups and have talked about every topic but that I think 

I've had that signature line up for probably 3 years. Its not like its new.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Jeff Foiles is no fall guy. Jeff Foiles called the shots and profitted from businesses built upon game law violations. He got caught He pays the penalty.
> 
> I assure you that Jeff is not the only guy who lost out on this deal. One guy is now dead as a result of the fallout.
> 
> He is no fall guy.


If you don't like what he represents don't buy or watch his stuff  Just by us talking about him, he becomes like Charlie Sheen, he is "winning" and his stock is going up. ha


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

*CHEEZY POOFS!!!!!!!!*


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

OH SH!#

PLEASE NOT WINNING!!!!


Gooser


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Celebrity status also infers a a level of expertise, and sets an example...in this case, a poor one. 

Foiles foibles  sets a poor example and promotes poaching and lawbreaking. It's not far from saying Michael Vick was busted for dogfighting because he was famous instead of because it's bloodthirsty and wrong. 

I can't admire, look up to, or respect in any way, someone who knowingly breaks the law and cheats as a way to make a living, yet expects others to look up to him and follow that kind of example.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

slayin67 said:


> I was thinking the same thing...came on here to talk about getting going with new pups and have talked about every topic but that I think
> 
> I've had that signature line up for probably 3 years. Its not like its new.


Lots of internet fans of Jeff had signature lines of his on discussion boards three years ago. I'd venture to guess that the majority don't continue to use them today.

Chris


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Lots of internet fans of Jeff had signature lines of his on discussion boards three years ago. I'd venture to guess that the majority don't continue to use them today.
> 
> Chris


I would agree. He abused the the very thing that made him successful.
Shame on him and others that believe as he does.


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

I guess I've been here in BFE too long. I've never heard of this Jeff outlaw character and frankly could have done without it. I got po'ed enough at the two clowns tazering a dead goose a few months back. They should be pumping daylight to this clown. 

A friend of mine is a guide. A few years back he had a group of 4 hunters. He wasn't hunting but did have a gun. He was calling and handling the dog. The group limited out ( they did not use his limit) and went back to the cabin. Two hours later there was a knock on the door. Two Federal boys were standing there holding a mallard they said the group failed to retrieve. They gave each in the group a joint over limit ticket. They told them if they fought it, they would lose their license for a year. My friend, the guide, fought it and sure enough lost his license (except for archery) for 18 months. Point being, 18 months suspension for jointly over the limit for one duck and this Jeff character doesn't lose his for life?

Go figure regards,


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## JustinS (May 17, 2009)

slayin67 said:


> This is duck hunting and not the mafia though Chris. Its not like Jeff is ultra wealthy. I assume he had to sell his half of the duck club to pay his legal expenses and fine of $100k. Fact is, it wasn't just him shooting over the limit. Those other guys deserve tickets or legal punishment as well don't they? Particularly if there is video footage of them doing it!


Quick thing, he had bought out his partner around 5 years ago- AFTER HE SHOT DENNY'S DOG. He didn't lose his club to the Feds which I think would have been ok- a very nice public hunting area - he did sell it for over 1.1 million but he wasn't forced to. He made videos that show him shooting a 4th shell, and he makes well over 100K a year on just promotional Items- his endorsement with BIGFOOT decoys paid him close to half of that-every year. Yes he did improve the habitat for many birds at his grounds, but he also shot way more in a week than most people do in a season. I still dont get how he got out of it by getting his club called a hunting Preserve- in SD you have to release birds in order to be a preserve - he just lured more in than the average joe. - just saying 

One other thing- Have you met him? he is an arse, unless you are paying him you are not worth his time. I saw him in MN at two different hunting shows and he wouldn't bother to share a hunting story or sign my friends goose call that was a foiles' 

not my kinda guy


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

slayin67 said:


> I've had that signature line up for probably 3 years. Its not like its new.


 
true,
but over half of your posts are from the 6th to today.
It's like wack-a-mole, you cannot get thumped until you stick your head up out of your hole.



.


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## slayin67 (Aug 26, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> true,
> but over half of your posts are from the 6th to today.
> It's like wack-a-mole, you cannot get thumped until you stick your head up out of your hole.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I should leave it up just for the sake of giving all the ol cranks something to "female dog" about hehe


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## JustinS (May 17, 2009)

Not an old crank, I am 26. I believe in killing a duck as quickly as possible, not holding its nostrils and beak closed so it suffocates. I bust my butt many fall mornings trying to get to the honey holes, and when I am able to call in and decoy way over my limit, I restrict my desire to knock down more. You don't have to be an old crank to have morals


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Ever hear of woman's intuition?


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

slayin67 said:


> Perhaps I should leave it up just for the sake of giving all the ol cranks something to "female dog" about hehe


You can leave the Foiles quote up all you want.

I'd suggest you remember that you have an advertisement for your business in your signature line, in close proximity to the quote glorifying Mr. Foiles in a statement about killing. 

Your call.

Chris


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Chris Atkinson said:


> You can leave the Foiles quote up all you want.
> 
> I'd suggest you remember that you have an advertisement for your business in your signature line, in close proximity to the quote glorifying Mr. Foiles in a statement about killing.
> 
> ...


That was the first thing I noticed.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

but he has a nice video on the site. funny it said I was watching because I was in pain. how did he know???


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## Daniel J Simoens (Jul 7, 2011)

I just went do gundogsupply to purchase the Fowl Dogs 3 dvd training pack and spent $150. damn you Steve!! oh well, now I'll be able to train this winter in my basement. Merry Christmas Blue!


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