# Dewey's Drake of Moon River- Affected?



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

I have heard from more than one supposedly knowledgeable person that Drake was affected. There is a puppy ad in the classifieds, that lists the dam as a Drake daughter who is clear.
My limited understanding of genetics would be that an affected could not have clear offspring; only carriers or affecteds.

Is my genetics presumption incorrect, or was Drake actually not affected?
Thanks


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## justin300mag (May 28, 2010)

interesting observation. Your right it is not possible to get clear from affected. I personally know several people that have dogs out of deweys drake of moon rivers and they are all carriers and they talk about deweys drake as though he was obviously affected. However I have never researched it myself, Im curious to see what is said.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

The Dam's EIC results are not listed on the OFA database.

http://offa.org/results.html?all=Hurricane+Stormy+Gale

If I had an EIC clear Daughter of Drake, I would probably pay the $15, to get the results listed there.

That's just me.


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## wendelb68 (Dec 2, 2009)

I have a friend that has a great Dewey Drake son and he is a carrier but one of the nicest yellow labs I have ever hunted with. It was my understanding that Dewey Drake was a carrier.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Marc, it would be the first clear that we have heard of, those of us that follow it.


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Use the search function on this website and type in "drake eic". You find all you need to know about his status.

Travis


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

The only way for anyone to know for sure is contact Drake's owner(s). They did the testing and know the results. Personally, I'd never take anyone's word for it (unless they were a friend) that their dog was clear, especially if I suspected the pedigree. If I had personal knowledge that a stud was EIC affected and saw someone claiming offspring to be clear, would not be the first time a mistake was made, deliberate or otherwise. Even VPI designation and listed on OFA is no guarantee the right dog was tested or that that particular dog actually was from the breeding it was thought to be.


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## wendelb68 (Dec 2, 2009)

I just did a search and found that Dewey was EIC affected. He can not produce a clear dog. You could get a clear grandson or dau but not a direct offspring.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

copterdoc said:


> The Dam's EIC results are not listed on the OFA database.
> 
> http://offa.org/results.html?all=Hurricane+Stormy+Gale
> 
> ...


I believe that along with that letter to the OFA, I would also be sending a letter to the breeder I bought my dog from as well as a letter to Gary McElwain


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

I wonder if the advertiser understands the consequences of how the ad is written and what it implies?

WRL


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## frontier (Nov 3, 2003)

copterdoc said:


> The Dam's EIC results are not listed on the OFA database.
> 
> http://offa.org/results.html?all=Hurricane+Stormy+Gale
> 
> ...


OFA will only publish EIC results from University of Minnesota's Diagnostic Lab.


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## torg (Feb 21, 2005)

That is why it is so important to see the actual documentation of health clearances when purchasing a dog. I have ran into many instances in my dog dealings where people are falsely claiming clearances. OFA elbow clearances that were never done, giving clearances on a littermate and not the actual dog in question, claiming cleared through parentage when maybe only one parent was cleared. If there is a clear female out of Drake, someone needs to investigate the lab's accuracy that conducted the EIC testing or the owner needs to do a DNA test on the dog and find her real daddy. 
I am a proud breeder of my EIC carrier Drake son, Erik, and all his EIC carrier litter mates.


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

Strange- I'm the one who posted the ad!

I've sent the blood and out on all the pups from the last litter and the pups all came back clear. I did send the lab work out on the dame came back clear! So I guess i beeter senD it out again to MN. I do not want to give any false impressions at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is vital to the breeding and intregity of myself and my dogs. I will have to resend another sample and verify! I will recheck and temporarily remove the clear until I get a verification; again


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Hurricane Retrievers said:


> Strange- I'm the one who posted the ad!
> 
> I've sent the blood and out to out on all the pups from the last litter and the pups all came back clear. I did send the lab work out an d came back clear! so i guess i beeter sent it out again. I do not want to give any false impressions at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is vital to the breeding and intregity of myself and my dogs. I will have to resend the another sample and verify! I will recheck and temporarily remove the clear until i get a verification; again


did you send it to U Of Minn?

I know that Marilyn was saying (this is with the CNM test) that there was a lab or two that were getting false negatives.

In your ad, you posted that the bitch (daughter of Drake) was clear but have no actual number (it shows on the paperwork from U of Minn). Are you saying she isn't clear but you tested the litter and they all came back clear? 

I'm a little confused based on your ad and then the above post. It IS possible that she is a carrier but all the pups came back clear.

WRL


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

*If* the Drake daughter is EIC clear per the U of M, guess I'd be checking her DNA next vs rechecking pup EIC tests (though it was good of the breeder to do that). DNA of the dam would be the simpler and cheaper route, IMO. As her owner, I'd want to just make sure all my bases were covered, if I had results that didn't jive somehow. I just know there was a case a while back where the parentage of a dog was called into question and a bunch of dogs between two litters then had to be DNA tested, all because one pup apparently got accidentally switched between litters at the breeder's.


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## torg (Feb 21, 2005)

Hurricane Retrievers said:


> Strange- I'm the one who posted the ad!
> 
> I've sent the blood and out on all the pups from the last litter and the pups all came back clear. I did send the lab work out on the dame came back clear! So I guess i beeter senD it out again to MN. I do not want to give any false impressions at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is vital to the breeding and intregity of myself and my dogs. I will have to resend another sample and verify! I will recheck and temporarily remove the clear until I get a verification; again


What lab did you use?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Rainmaker said:


> *If* the Drake daughter is EIC clear per the U of M, guess I'd be checking her DNA next vs rechecking pup EIC tests (though it was good of the breeder to do that). DNA of the dam would be the simpler and cheaper route, IMO. As her owner, I'd want to just make sure all my bases were covered, if I had results that didn't jive somehow. I just know there was a case a while back where the parentage of a dog was called into question and a bunch of dogs between two litters then had to be DNA tested, all because one pup apparently got accidentally switched between litters at the breeder's.


Rainmaker is right plus if the DNA is wrong the whole litter will be affected until it is sorted out which would affect each owners ability to run tests etc. I know that that happened once.


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

Yes i have the paper work and will verify. AKC and CErf are only beng certified by a few places. Even though you get a number it might not be AKC approved. The best way is contact AKC and find the approved testing facility and use them. 

Yes all the pups from the last litter were clear! tested by U of MN.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Hurricane Retrievers said:


> Yes i have the paper work and will verify. AKC and CErf are only beng certified by a few places. Even though you get a number it might not be AKC approved. The best way is contact AKC and find the approved testing facility and use them.
> 
> Yes all the pups from the last litter were clear! tested by U of MN.


WHAT? AKC does certify anything. 

The only DNA testing AKC does is verifying parentage. For CERF, you have to go to an ACVO for an examination. 

AKC does not "approve" any health clearances. They don't care. 

Its as clear as mud now.

WRL


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Rainmaker said:


> *If* the Drake daughter is EIC clear per the U of M, guess I'd be checking her DNA next vs rechecking pup EIC tests (though it was good of the breeder to do that). DNA of the dam would be the simpler and cheaper route, IMO. As her owner, I'd want to just make sure all my bases were covered, if I had results that didn't jive somehow. I just know there was a case a while back where the parentage of a dog was called into question and a bunch of dogs between two litters then had to be DNA tested, all because one pup apparently got accidentally switched between litters at the breeder's.


 



Happened to me. Found out my dog wasnt who he was supposed to be when he was 7 years old after he was QAA and MH.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

Correct me if I'm wrong here but even though a litter could be from a clear parent and carrier parent, all the pups COULD be clear. There's just a chance that you'll have carrier pups, not guaranteed that a percentage would be carriers. Just like color. Breeding two blacks that carry the yellow gene COULD result in yellow pups but not necessarily.

Testing for EIC by way of the U of M for the Dam herself would be the proper method.


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

I don't think EIC testing the female again is the answer. It looks like to me if she tested clear (and all the pups tested clear just to bolster the fact that she didn't get a false negative) she is NOT a Drake offspring.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Charles C. said:


> I don't think EIC testing the female again is the answer. It looks like to me if she tested clear (and all the pups tested clear just to bolster the fact that she didn't get a false negative) she is NOT a Drake offspring.


That's why he needs to have her DNAed at this point


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

TroyFeeken said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here but even though a litter could be from a clear parent and carrier parent, all the pups COULD be clear. There's just a chance that you'll have carrier pups, not guaranteed that a percentage would be carriers.


True, but not the situation here. If Drake is affected, all of his offspring will be at least EIC carriers.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

TroyFeeken said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here but even though a litter could be from a clear parent and carrier parent, all the pups COULD be clear.....


If both, or either parent is a carrier of a recessive trait, mathematical probability comes into play. So, yes a carrier does not have to pass on the recessive trait.

If neither parent is a carrier, there will be a 100% outcome, 100% of the time.

An affected X clear breeding will produce 100% carriers.
An affected X affected breeding will produce 100% affected.
A clear X clear breeding will produce 100% clear.



TroyFeeken said:


> ....Just like color. Breeding two blacks that carry the yellow gene COULD result in yellow pups but not necessarily...


This scenario, is totally non-related to the breeding in question.

The above breeding, involves only carriers. They could produce carrier, affected, or clear offspring. There is no absolute outcome.


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

copterdoc said:


> The above breeding, involves only carriers. They could produce carrier, affected, or clear offspring. There is no absolute outcome.


I'm not sure what you're talking about. People are saying Drake is affected.

Agreed, the coat color analogy doesn't work since two loci are involved.


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## copterdoc (Mar 26, 2006)

mitty said:


> I'm not sure what you're talking about. People are saying Drake is affected.
> 
> Agreed, the coat color analogy doesn't work since two loci are involved.


I was talking about the breeding scenario I quoted in my post.

There is nothing wrong with an analogy comparing an Autosomal Recessive trait, to yellow coat color.

Yellow coat color is expressed by only one locus. Just because that locus is epistatic to another, doesn't mean that it's inheritance and expression don't follow the same rules.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

The chances of a known affected producing a clear is zero.

The chances of a carrier X a clear producing all clears from one litter is possible, from two litters is statistically pretty darn small. 

Something is wrong here.


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## wendelb68 (Dec 2, 2009)

If you breed a carrier to a clear, statistically it wll be 50% carrier and 50% clear. Each indiviidual pup is and individual event. It would be the same as throwing 8 straight heads while flipping a quarter. There is a chance that this could happen but realistically possible.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

wendelb68 said:


> If you breed a carrier to a clear, statistically it wll be 50% carrier and 50% clear. Each indiviidual pup is and individual event. It would be the same as throwing 8 straight heads while flipping a quarter. There is a chance that this could happen but realistically possible.


This was where I was going in which the poster identified testing an entire litter of pups from the same dam bred to a clear sire and having no carriers.


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> That's why he needs to have her DNAed at this point


Okay so a question: This probably will prove that the sire is not correct OR will it determine what dog is the sire (assuming the "busy" male had been DNA'd)?

If the DNA proves that Drake is not the sire, then what happens with the female's registration?


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## Russ Baker (Mar 30, 2005)

If the Dam was tested eic clear, and the entire litter tested eic clear, she is not
a daughter of Dewey's Drake of Moon River. Really no other possibility, I would 
be doing a dna test, rather than another EIC test. 
The same case that Steve S . was involved with also caused a scare with dna
results of a female of mine. Turned out, 2 litters, one pup, was mixed, 7 years later
one heck of a headache. Very happy it was cleared up.
You need a DNA test, that would be my suggestion. Truly, I would love to have a EIC
clear Drake female, Titled. But the clear part is not posssible. 
Good Luck 
Russ


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

SueLab said:


> Okay so a question: This probably will prove that the sire is not correct OR will it determine what dog is the sire (assuming the "busy" male had been DNA'd)?
> 
> If the DNA proves that Drake is not the sire, then what happens with the female's registration?


Drake's DNA has to be on file. I'm not sure if the AKC handles it the same way but essentially the registrations of the female and all the pups produced are in limbo until it can be proven who the sire is.


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

SueLab said:


> Okay so a question: This probably will prove that the sire is not correct OR will it determine what dog is the sire (assuming the "busy" male had been DNA'd)?
> 
> If the DNA proves that Drake is not the sire, then what happens with the female's registration?



Her registration and that of all of her littermates, offspring of them all, etc... gets put into "conditional" status until things get sorted out. There are breeding and competition restrictions with conditional status. 

"A dog with Conditional Registration has some unknown ancestors. The dog’s registration number will start with the letter ‘Q’ and the dog will have competition and breeding restrictions. More information about Conditional Registration may be found here. Below is a sample Conditional Registration Certificate, showing the special border and (in this case) an unknown sire."


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## bbloesl (Jul 13, 2010)

I have a dog out of Dewey Drake and she is affected per U of M test. Tried emailing owner several times but he NEVER took the time to respond. I have personally spoken with other Drake pup owners that have affected dogs. They too were unsuccessful getting in touch with Drakes owner.


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## Denney (Oct 23, 2007)

Conditionally registered dogs are able to participate in hunt tests and field trials (beginning July 1, 2010), no conformation events. 

Conditional registration will more than likely be given if the sire is undetermined. If the dog with conditional registration is bred, then that dog and the dog it is bred to must have their DNA on profile with AKC in order for the litter to be registered. 

If the sire or dam is unknown, then on the pedigree it will be listed as "unknown". After 3 generations, the dog's names are included and the registration will result to "normal".

If DNA is submitted voluntarily, then there are no penalties for the breeder. If it is submitted compulsory then penalties are on a graduated schedule.


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## wendelb68 (Dec 2, 2009)

Sounds like someone has some explaining to do. Was this "Dau" of Drake a product of AI? Could someone have messed up the shipping of semen? If natural cover, I think the bitch may have been accidentally bred before Drake got to her.


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## rsfavor (Jul 9, 2007)

bbloesl said:


> I have a dog out of Dewey Drake and she is affected per U of M test. Tried emailing owner several times but he NEVER took the time to respond. I have personally spoken with other Drake pup owners that have affected dogs. They too were unsuccessful getting in touch with Drakes owner.


What's your point? By the way, you can have a pup BY Drake but not out of HIM.


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

bbloesl said:


> I have a dog out of Dewey Drake and she is affected per U of M test. Tried emailing owner several times but he NEVER took the time to respond. I have personally spoken with other Drake pup owners that have affected dogs. They too were unsuccessful getting in touch with Drakes owner.



Let's get some prospective here folks regarding Drake. 
1) he was bred to, a lot! I would say only a few times AFTER the EIC test came out and most likely very carefully. Before that, you cannot blame the dog or the owners of the stud dog for Affected pups. The dog obviously did not show obvious signs of EIC, he was a NFC for goodness sake! 
2) in order for you to have an affected pup, the mother had to be either a carrier or affected herself! Since it is the owner of the mother that is considered the breeder and therefore the responsible one, I hope that you called them about your affected pups! They would be the ones offering some type of warranty or not, not the stud owner. 
3) I am sure the Drake's owners are pretty tired of answering phone calls, emails, etc... regarding his status. I am also sure that they have been harassed, threatened with stupid lawsuits, etc... over something that they had no control over since the EIC test has only been available for a short time. 
4) This thread was started as an inquiry to a puppy ad stating Clear status for the mother of the litter, not about how many people can come out of the woodwork to claim their dog is affected and how someone has "done them wrong".


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

firehouselabs said:


> Let's get some prospective here folks regarding Drake.
> 1) he was bred to, a lot! I would say only a few times AFTER the EIC test came out and most likely very carefully. Before that, you cannot blame the dog or the owners of the stud dog for Affected pups. The dog obviously did not show obvious signs of EIC, he was a NFC for goodness sake!
> 2) in order for you to have an affected pup, the mother had to be either a carrier or affected herself! Since it is the owner of the mother that is considered the breeder and therefore the responsible one, I hope that you called them about your affected pups! They would be the ones offering some type of warranty or not, not the stud owner.
> 3) I am sure the Drake's owners are pretty tired of answering phone calls, emails, etc... regarding his status. I am also sure that they have been harassed, threatened with stupid lawsuits, etc... over something that they had no control over since the EIC test has only been available for a short time.
> 4) This thread was started as an inquiry to a puppy ad stating Clear status for the mother of the litter, not about how many people can come out of the woodwork to claim their dog is affected and how someone has "done them wrong".


I agree Raina. 

I would:

1) Resubmit the EIC test of the bitch. 

2) IF she came back clear of EIC, I would then submit a DNA test for her for paternity.

Based on the posts by the breeder, (which are very hard to follow) it sounds like SHE (daughter of Drake is a carrier) but the first litter she had were tested and did not produce any carriers.

No use and doing the DNA etc without some sort of plan in place.

WRL


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

WRL said:


> I agree Raina.
> 
> 
> Based on the posts by the breeder, (which are very hard to follow) it sounds like SHE (daughter of Drake is a carrier) but the first litter she had were tested and did not produce any carriers.
> ...


No, the breeder is saying the dam (daughter of drake) is clear. That's what started the post.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

mitty said:


> No, the breeder is saying the dam (daughter of drake) is clear. That's what started the post.


No that is what he had posted on his ad. But reread the posts here. He tested the first litter. Why would he test the first litter if the bitch is clear?

Of course, as I stated before...its clear as mud.


WRL


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Hurricane Retrievers said:


> I did send the lab work out on the dame came back clear!


WRL---here's where he says he tested the dam. No idea why he then tested the litter. I also looked at his website, I'm pretty sure it says there that the dam (Gale) as EIC clear and Gale's pedigree shows that she is sired by Drake.


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

mitty said:


> WRL---here's where he says he tested the dam. No idea why he then tested the litter. I also looked at his website, I'm pretty sure it says there that the dam (Gale) as EIC clear and Gale's pedigree shows that she is sired by Drake.


Yes I know. Like I said, clear as mud.

Each post seems to conflict with another one.

WRL


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

rbaker said:


> If the Dam was tested eic clear, and the entire litter tested eic clear, she is not a daughter of Dewey's Drake of Moon River. Really no other possibility, I would
> be doing a dna test, rather than another EIC test. Truly, I would love to have a EIC
> clear Drake female, Titled. But the clear part is not possible.
> Russ


I agree with Russ.

If Dewey's Drake of Moon River was EIC affected, this daughter of Drake is no daughter. 
A DNA test of her should be done because her ancestry and, thus, the ancestry of her pups are in question. 

Helen


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

Again, does AKC have a way to determine paternity with the DNA that they have on file? 
I am just asking how paternity could be determined after the fact...this is a general question - not aimed at any dog or breeder...

IE: Just as an example, if the bitch had been sent to a pro and you knew what other males were around or at a Repo clinic, checking the other breedings that day to determine a possible mix up.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

SueLab said:


> Again, does AKC have a way to determine paternity with the DNA that they have on file?
> I am just asking how paternity could be determined after the fact...this is a general question - not aimed at any dog or breeder...
> 
> IE: Just as an example, if the bitch had been sent to a pro and you knew what other males were around or at a Repo clinic, checking the other breedings that day to determine a possible mix up.


Paternity is usually termed as a rule out. In other words, they can be 99% certain blah blah is not the sire by his DNA against the daughter.


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## SCOTT C. (Oct 20, 2004)

The pedigree on the breeders website for the female is incorrect. I am sure its a mistake because on the puppy ped it's correct, it shows Drake's parents as Lean Mac X South Hill's you Gotta be Kiddin.

I have a female by Ebonstar Gotta Zoom so I know that pedigree well.

Things are easy to overlook I guess?


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## Bustin' (Jun 5, 2007)

Pedigree on the site looks to be a home made job, that he fogot to change the sire's side.


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

OK,
He's the story! My dog Hurricane Lily was AI'd from Dewey Drake. So said all the paper work and all the sample staws sent. Hurricane Stormy Gale was produced out of the litter which I kept, She's has been been CMN tested and the pups from her first litter were tested for CMN and EIC the pups were cleared.. I thought originally I sent a sample on Gale but apparently I thought I did not only the CNM. But to stop all the confusion here I'm sending her sample out and should get a result back within 10 days. I agree if Drake is affected should chould be a carrier no way different if not then I will have to see what happens after the results come back and what options i do have when the test come back as a clear then i have to check my options, if a carrieer was probally luck all were clear. When I called AKC about the Cerf and gettign all ther cerf posted in her DNA profile they told me the CERF people would only accept certain labs results one of which is U of Min. I did not mean to stirr up a hornets nest but I can understand why! Do not guess at what the sory is unless you know the whole story so I will repost when I get the results. I took off the clear in all ads and reomoved anything which would indicate she is clear to help the confusion.

WHAT EVER THE OUTCOME DRAKE WAS A GREAT DOG AND HER SIBLINGS HAVE DONE VERY WELL!!! DO NOT UNDERMINE THE DOGS FOR A SIMPLE TYPO OR A HONEST MISTAKE WHICH WILL BE CLEARIFIED!


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Hurricane Retrievers said:


> OK,
> He's the story! My dog Hurricane Lily was AI'd from Dewey Drake. So said all the paper work and all the sample staws sent. Hurricane Stormy Gale was produced out of the litter which I kept, She's has been been CMN tested and the pups from her first litter were tested for CMN and EIC the pups were cleared.. I thought originally I sent a sample on Gale but apparently I thought I did not only the CNM. But to stop all the confusion here I'm sending her sample out and should get a result back within 10 days. I agree if Drake is affected should chould be a carrier no way different if not then I will have to see what happens after the results come back and what options i do have when the test come back as a clear then i have to check my options, if a carrieer was probally luck all were clear. When I called AKC about the Cerf and gettign all ther cerf posted in her DNA profile they told me the CERF people would only accept certain labs results one of which is U of Min. I did not mean to stirr up a hornets nest but I can understand why! Do not guess at what the sory is unless you know the whole story so I will repost when I get the results. I took off the clear in all ads and reomoved anything which would indicate she is clear to help the confusion.
> 
> WHAT EVER THE OUTCOME DRAKE WAS A GREAT DOG AND HER SIBLINGS HAVE DONE VERY WELL!!! DO NOT UNDERMINE THE DOGS FOR A SIMPLE TYPO OR A HONEST MISTAKE WHICH WILL BE CLEARIFIED!


Another typo that is confusing people is that you keep mentioning CERF which is an eye exam that has absolutely nothing to do with EIC or CNM or OFA (other than being able to POST CERF results on OFA website) or AKC for that matter. You must mean CERT NOT CERF. You may want to consider just spelling out certification instead. The ONLY thing that AKC does is possibly incorporate the OFA and CERF information on future pedigrees. They do NOT list EIC or CNM. 
Yes, OFA only takes results from the Univ. Minn. and not from DDC or Vetgen for EIC. They will take results from these laboratories for CNM though.


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## j towne (Jul 27, 2006)

Hurricane Retrievers said:


> OK,
> He's the story! i I took off the clear in all ads and reomoved anything which would indicate she is clear to help the confusion.
> 
> WHAT EVER THE OUTCOME DRAKE WAS A GREAT DOG AND HER SIBLINGS HAVE DONE VERY WELL!!! DO NOT UNDERMINE THE DOGS FOR A SIMPLE TYPO OR A HONEST MISTAKE WHICH WILL BE CLEARIFIED!


It's still on your web site. 

Do you realize CERF is just for eyes?


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Hurricane Retrievers said:


> OK,
> My dog Hurricane Lily was AI'd from Dewey Drake. So said all the paper work and all the sample staws sent. Hurricane Stormy Gale was produced out of the litter which I kept, I took off the clear in all ads and reomoved anything which would indicate she is clear to help the confusion.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

Changed it until i get results


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

j towne said:


> It's still on your web site.
> 
> Do you realize CERF is just for eyes?


Yes I do just was trying to say the certifiying process for all types of testing should have clearified that. The certifying process!


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

you may want to get the pedigree of Gale right. Drake is not a Lean Mac son out of Gotta.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

This thread is giving me EIC. Extremely Incredibly Confused. I gotta quit drinkin so early on boys nite out.

Certifiable regards,


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

firehouselabs said:


> Another typo that is confusing people is that you keep mentioning CERF which is an eye exam that has absolutely nothing to do with EIC or CNM or OFA (other than being able to POST CERF results on OFA website) or AKC for that matter. You must mean CERT NOT CERF. You may want to consider just spelling out certification instead. The ONLY thing that AKC does is possibly incorporate the OFA and CERF information on future pedigrees. They do NOT list EIC or CNM.
> Yes, OFA only takes results from the Univ. Minn. and not from DDC or Vetgen for EIC. They will take results from these laboratories for CNM though.


I just wish there would be one certification process for all the test or a holder of all the test. Seems from a breeders aspect the more test we have to do it is getting costly. As a breeder I'm not in it to make money but trying to improve on what I have or able to pass on to clients. Usally for testing CMN, EIC, OFA's, and Cerf's and then there are more if you want to due them. usally by the time you micro chip and test each puppy give shots, and dew claws removed you got a good part of 300.00 into a puppy without actually paying for the other items such as ultra sounds, stud fee and the other cost which come along with the breeding process. BREEDERS do not get rich or make a whole lot of profit per dog! But that could be a whole another forum in it's self.

Trust me I always try look out for my reputation and my honesty it is what people truely only have in this game, IS IT NOT!


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

duk4me said:


> This thread is giving me EIC. Extremely Incredibly Confused. I gotta quit drinkin so early on boys nite out.
> 
> Certifiable regards,


Good thing cause I donno if I can stand talking LSU baseball right now. :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

Sundown49 aka Otey B said:


> you may want to get the pedigree of Gale right. Drake is not a Lean Mac son out of Gotta.


I corrected Gales pedigree on the website I just cut and pasted it wrong. The puppies pedigree was right on my website! But thanks for the help. So web site is correct now


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey Hurricane, now you know people are paying attention.


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## Hurricane Retrievers (Dec 1, 2005)

Howard N said:


> Hey Hurricane, now you know people are paying attention.


Thanks I feel like I've been through the wringer on that old dryer not once but a few times over this but thnx


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## torg (Feb 21, 2005)

duk4me said:


> This thread is giving me EIC. Extremely Incredibly Confused. I gotta quit drinkin so early on boys nite out.
> 
> Certifiable regards,


You and me both, Tim. With the incorrect "everything" and trying to sound out words that are not spelled correctly, I am getting dizzy. Hubby fill up my wine glass please.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

So your Drake daughter is an EIC carrier, thank you for testing, posting and clearing that up. 

"Hurricane Stormy Gale JH CMN CLear/ EIC Carrier"


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

The owness of the accurracy is with the advertiser. The purchaser or shopper has the responsibility to ensure the advertisements are correct. Verification of the documentation is an adequate way to ensure correctness. 

The requirements to post an ad are adequate in my opinion. HPW


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Chrissy S. said:


> I understand what you are saying.
> 
> I agree with "Caveat Emptor"
> 
> Harry, do you think OFA numbers should be required in an ad on RTF?


Why? People still have to check, people can get the wrong numbers in their ads or make them up if they want to be dishonest. Not everyone submits results to CERF but they still have their AVCO exam. I don't think the moderators need to bear the burden of screening ads for buyers, RTF is one of the very, very few that requires any kind of health screenings as it is.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

HarryWilliams said:


> The owness of the accurracy is with the advertiser. The purchaser or shopper has the responsibility to ensure the advertisements are correct. Verification of the documentation is an adequate way to ensure correctness.
> 
> The requirements to post an ad are adequate in my opinion. HPW


I agree they are adequate.

As a moderator, I look at the classified ads, but Vicky (the other mod) does the policing of the puppies ads and it is a full time headache. I know I randomly verify certifications listed on ads, to include registration numbers, but if we had to verify every single ad, that is all we would be doing and we both have day jobs. So as not to over complicate matters only the basic certifications are required with no numbers. 

The responsibility of accurateness is on the seller and verification is on the buyer, sometimes people need to take ownership of the situation, RTF can't hold everyone's hand. Not to mention the legal headache if someone decided "we" were responsible for false advertisement, etc.

It will remain as it is for the foreseeable future.

FOM

And FYI if anyone sees a discrepancy in an ad you can always report it by selecting the "warning" icon to the left of the ad, under the poster's name and/or send a mod a direct PM.


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## FGD Mike Smith (Jan 5, 2012)

I agree with most of the population here that Dewey was affected. I had a daughter of his who was a carrier. Threw some pretty amazing pups. He just tested one of her males from her final litter, He is "clear" and will be going to a breeding/ HT home. It's an incredible line minus the EIC.


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## jeff evans (Jun 9, 2008)

copterdoc said:


> I was talking about the breeding scenario I quoted in my post.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with an analogy comparing an Autosomal Recessive trait, to yellow coat color.
> 
> Yellow coat color is expressed by only one locus. Just because that locus is epistatic to another, doesn't mean that it's inheritance and expression don't follow the same rules.


Where's the like button???????


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