# greatest golden retriever of all time???



## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

what do you think everyone a couple of years ago Jim and Kato won 10 AA stakes in one year

http://www.australianworkingretrievercentral.org.au/bb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1910&p=8032#p8032


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

He may not have been the very best but he has to be in the top 10 and that would be 

FC AFC Tigathoe's Funky Farquar, former NDC, I think Quar also had a bench title, he was a good looking boy with a nice disposition and easy to throw birds for since he could definitely mark with the best of them


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

I think it was the golden in "Homeward Bound".


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## Bill Burks (Jan 25, 2003)

Air Bud? I don't know about the best of all time, but two that I really admired were Stoneybrook's Jersey Devil and Firebird of Rockyview.


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## DSemple (Feb 16, 2008)

FC AFC Stoneybrook's Jersey Devil was a fabulous dog and the best I've seen.

....Don


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## stevelow (May 13, 2004)

Actually it was Dual CH AFC Tigathoe's Funky Farquar CD TD OS FDHF. He was a bench CH as well as an FC. This was accomplished in the 1970s, and there has not been another Dual CH Golden in the US since then (one in Canada, Firemark's Push Comes To Shove). Also, he earned the GRCA Outstanding Sire award.

Don't forget Topbrass Cotton, the only NAFC Golden ever.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

NAFC FC Topbrass Cotton


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## TXduckdog (Oct 17, 2007)

I saw a few babies out of Topbrass....boy they sure could mark birds and scoot, even when they were itty-bitty. Real serious about it, too.

They were fun to watch.


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## Kevin WI (Mar 14, 2003)

FC AFC OTCH FTCH AFTCH Can MOTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer UDX, WCX , MH, OBHF, FDHF, OS has pretty good credentials also


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Based on progeny, AFC Holway Barty.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Connie Cleveland's dog Eli would be right up there.

FC AFC OTCH Topbrass Ascending Elijah OS/FDHF

Eric


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## 150class (Jul 1, 2003)

My two
The best Ive ever had!


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

FC-AFC Misty’s Sungold Lad owned by Val Walker


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

I believe Joe Wattleworth had a golden some years ago that was pretty good, however I do not remember the dog's name. Maybe someone out there does.


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

Roger Perry said:


> I believe Joe Wattleworth had a golden some years ago that was pretty good, however I do not remember the dog's name. Maybe someone out there does.


FC AFC Tigathoe's Magic Marker

(Just answering the question-not who the greatest Golden of all time is).

M


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Hay Nancy- Didja notice that I haven't had even ONE little peep on this one all laying there like a biggo Little Debbie?

Gentlemanly restraint regards

Bubba


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Before 72 NFC Royal's Moose's Moe Bill Connor had a good golden, FC-AFC Rip'n Ready, also trained by Joe Schomer. I don't know if he was the best, but he was one of the good ones.


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## J. Walker (Feb 21, 2009)

Kevin WI said:


> FC AFC OTCH FTCH AFTCH Can MOTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer UDX, WCX , MH, OBHF, FDHF, OS has pretty good credentials also


Yep, that's the dog I was going to say. For all-around performance and tractability, he's a tough one to beat plus he's still a really nice looking, well-built dog.


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

Bubba--


First the restraint with the vultures and now this. HMMMM.....I'm pretty sure I just saw a pig flyin by my office window. 

Either the redhead is standin right behind you with a bat or you are being bribed. 


I-for one am really enjoying this thread-lot's of really special dogs and a great picture Richard posted.


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Yeah, they were some good ones. But, you can't forget FC-AFC Mioak's Smoke'n Zeke OS FDHF.
He won two doubleheaders, had 28 derby points, qualified for 3 Nat'ls. And, in 1994 he had 32 AA points in 11 trials, and was a finalist in the 1994 National AM. Just 5 months before he died at 5 1/2 years old. And, in that short time had accumulated 69 1/2 AA points. Just think if he had his full life. 
And, that's why we have the "Zeke Fund" because of an excellent competitor and companion who left this world way too young. 
BAIT


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## finkomania (Oct 17, 2008)

I really like those sungold golden retrievers myself


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

Like Bubba, I sure missed my guess on this. I was positive it woulda been the first Golden that could, following a full day in the Sodak pheasant coverts, shake all the burrs, thorns, and various plant seeds from it's coat.

UB... should I be duckin' Bubba?


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Uncle Bill said:


> Like Bubba, I sure missed my guess on this. I was positive it woulda been the first Golden that could, following a full day in the Sodak pheasant coverts, shake all the burrs, thorns, and various plant seeds from it's coat.
> 
> UB... should I be duckin' Bubba?


Lordy- I'm sure glad I didn't say that. For dang sure wouldn't want to venture into the whole getting wet thing.

This gentlemanly restraint thing is starting to cramp my style regards

Bubba


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## GoldDog (Feb 10, 2009)

Another good one is Lorie Jolly's Speaker, AFC AFTCH Rosehill's Mr. Speaker MH, OS, FDHF, CCA. Turned 15 this spring. My avatar Gunner was a son of Speaker, and no he did not throw all of the cockleburs when he shook, alot but not all.


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## TexGold (Jan 27, 2009)

How about: FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Cdn OTCH TNT's Explosion, FDHF, OHF, Am UD, FDHF OS call name, "Boomer." #1 Open & Amateur Golden in the USA - 2003 & 2004 #1 Open & Amateur Golden in the USA & Canada 2003 Qualified for the 2004 US Amateur National the only Golden on Purina Outstanding Retriever List 2003 Member of the Field Dog Hall of Fame Member of the Obedience Dog Hall of Fame The first FC AFC FTCH AFTCH OTCH Golden Multi-High In Trial obedience awards boasting scores of 199 in both Canada and the US 100% Amateur trained and trialed has 2 Amateur US WINS in 2004 Has 90 combined US/Cdn All-Age Points Outstanding Sire Status 2003 & 2004 winner of the GRCA year end awards - Gilnockie Challenge Cup, Granat Brothers Trophy, and the Tigathoe Memorial Trophy My dog's sire (personal favorite.)


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

TexGold said:


> How about: FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Cdn OTCH TNT's Explosion, FDHF, OHF, Am UD, FDHF OS call name, "Boomer." #1 Open & Amateur Golden in the USA - 2003 & 2004 #1 Open & Amateur Golden in the USA & Canada 2003 Qualified for the 2004 US Amateur National the only Golden on Purina Outstanding Retriever List 2003 Member of the Field Dog Hall of Fame Member of the Obedience Dog Hall of Fame The first FC AFC FTCH AFTCH OTCH Golden Multi-High In Trial obedience awards boasting scores of 199 in both Canada and the US 100% Amateur trained and trialed has 2 Amateur US WINS in 2004 Has 90 combined US/Cdn All-Age Points Outstanding Sire Status 2003 & 2004 winner of the GRCA year end awards - Gilnockie Challenge Cup, Granat Brothers Trophy, and the Tigathoe Memorial Trophy My dog's sire (personal favorite.)


AND he WON a 60+ dog Open at age 10 1/2! 

JS


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## Fire N Ice (Nov 12, 2007)

stevelow said:


> Actually it was Dual CH AFC Tigathoe's Funky Farquar CD TD OS FDHF. He was a bench CH as well as an FC. This was accomplished in the 1970s, and there has not been another Dual CH Golden in the US since then (one in Canada, Firemark's Push Comes To Shove). Also, he earned the GRCA Outstanding Sire award.
> 
> Don't forget Topbrass Cotton, the only NAFC Golden ever.


Hey Steve, not very knowledgable of the trial success of goldens, but when I began in 1991 Jerry Patopea was running a great dog let alone golden named FC-AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo who after looking through my old Retriever News accumulated 120.5 All-Age points 88.5 Open and 32 Amateur who was owned by Gerry Heiner. What are the high point goldens of all-time not just by opinion but by the numbers.


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Another that we don't think of because it was before most of us

Stilroven Nitro Express


http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20880&highlight=stilrovin+nitro+express


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Richard Halstead said:


> Another that we don't think of because it was before most of us
> 
> Stilroven Nitro Express
> 
> ...


That fabulous picture of "Nitro" always leaves me in awe...

Thanks, Richard..once again. 

Judy


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Judy Chute said:


> That fabulous picture of "Nitro" always leaves me in awe...
> 
> Thanks, Richard..once again.
> 
> Judy


Bad to the bone!!


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## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

You got that right!


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## Fire N Ice (Nov 12, 2007)

Come on Golden People!!!! The thread was greatest golden of all time. I brought up FC-AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo 120.5 All-Age points. By the numbers who is high point golden of all-time? Lets say since 1980. Melanie you out there?


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Fire N Ice said:


> Come on Golden People!!!! The thread was greatest golden of all time. I brought up FC-AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo 120.5 All-Age points. By the numbers who is high point golden of all-time? Lets say since 1980. Melanie you out there?


How do we compare the dogs from the old days with a dog that is more recent? A dog of the early days may had a reduced number of trials to compete, while the dog of today can compete nearly year round. The earlier dog could win more of the trials run, while the dog with more points placed in a smaller percent of trials.


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## Purpledawg (Jul 16, 2006)

From the handbook of National Retriever Field Trial Club
1962-1966


FC Nickolas of Logan End 2-28-58 owned by Hugh Adams

total pts 123.5


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## canuckkiller (Apr 16, 2009)

Re Fc-afc Ripp'n Ready - 67 All Age Points. 6 Nationals. 1966 St. Louis National
Tight Thru The 8th Series.

Thank You Mr. Halstead -
Bill Connor


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## Swampcollie (Jan 16, 2003)

Another vote for Stilrovin Nitro Express.


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm with "Bait".
"Ginger's" big bro. was an awesome dog.
Sue
P.S. I believe that FC/AFC Tangelo's Side Kick had allot of all-aged pts.
"Mo" was a National Finalist in 1991???
"Cain" in 1999.


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## Fire N Ice (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm not trying to compare any dogs from any era, just chose 1980. Does anyone know who the highest pointed golden of all-time is? Does anyone know the highest pointed golden since 1980. I don't have either answer but am interested in knowing. If anyone has those stats please share. No debate from me. Just curious in line with the original post.


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Fire N Ice said:


> I'm not trying to compare any dogs from any era, just chose 1980. Does anyone know who the highest pointed golden of all-time is? Does anyone know the highest pointed golden since 1980. I don't have either answer but am interested in knowing. If anyone has those stats please share. No debate from me. Just curious in line with the original post.


The question in the post wasn't who had the most points. It's about the greatest golden of all time. It sounds like you want everybody to submit, and say,"Yes, you're right. It WAS Mo that was the greatest dog of all time. Based on the points he had. Mo was a great dog. One of the best. Just like you said. Nobody's arguing that. Just bringing up names of some of the great ones. Possibly, not just for how many points they had, but based on what talents people saw when they saw them run. Sometimes the numbers of points doesn't always tell the whole story. As with the point I made about Zeke. Sometimes it's about how many trials the dog got to run. What a better point would be to make is; how many points in how many trials? The ratio or percentage. 
But, yeah, I would think that,"Greatest of all time" could mean more than one aspect. It's an opinion thing. Not always just numbers. Although, numbers do count. 
I would think opinions of this is all you can get on this. How can we REALLY determine THE actual best of all time? We can't. So, people are bringing up the great ones. That's all. I do know there are some good stories out there about Zeke. Maybe some will surface here. Redline, you out there? 
BAIT


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## Jim Pickering (Sep 17, 2004)

Fire N Ice said:


> I'm not trying to compare any dogs from any era, just chose 1980. Does anyone know who the highest pointed golden of all-time is? Does anyone know the highest pointed golden since 1980. I don't have either answer but am interested in knowing. If anyone has those stats please share. No debate from me. Just curious in line with the original post.


I am on the road with the dogs and do not have my cheat sheet or the GRCA Year Books with me so the following is from fuzzy memory.

The all time high point FT Golden was NAFC FC Topbrass Cotton who accumulated 240+ points.

The #2 high point Golden was FC AFC Misty’s Sungold Lad with 212 1/2 total all age points.

The names and total points of #3 & #4 escapes me at the moment. I want to say that both dated back a decade or two prior to Cotton and Lad. I hesitate to mention a name but I am thinking one was FC/AFC Can. NFTCH Oakcreek's Van Cleve FDHF (7/12/1946-12/25/1961) was 3rd or 4th.

If memory serves #5 was FC AFC Tangloe’s Side Kick “Pardner” with 130+ points. (A Misty’s Sungold Lad grandson).

After Pardner there are 5 or 6 others that are fairly closely bunched in the 100 to 125 total point range including FC AFC Windbreaker’s Mighty Mo and maybe Tigathoe’s Magic Marker. 



> Based on progeny, AFC Holway Barty.


I would agree based on progeny. If not for Holway Barty one wonders if there would be Golden Retrievers running field trials today. Again the memory is fuzzy, but Barty sired 7 or 8 pups that earned the FC and/or AFC titles including Topbrass Cotton who in turn sired 7 or 8 pups who also titled. The one other Golden that produced on a par with Barty and Cotton was AFC Yankee’s Smoke’n Red Devil. However, 6 of Red Devil’s titled pups were the result of four litters out of FC Windbreakers Razzmatazz. Note that Razzmatazz was a Barty daughter and Red Devil was a Barty Grandson. Mighty Mo, Zap, Kahki Kip, Bull Rush Buddy, Ziggy, and NAFTCH Razzl Dazzl were all the products of a line breeding on Holway Barty.



> Yeah, they were some good ones. But, you can't forget FC-AFC Mioak's Smoke'n Zeke.
> BAIT


One does have to wonder what might have been had Zeke had a full career.




> FC AFC Tigathoe's Magic Marker


I believe that Chick is still the FT all time high point female Golden, better than her two sibling, DC AFC Tigathoe’s Funky Farquar and FC AFC Tigathoe’s Kiowa II. BTW Ki was by far a better producer than sibling Quar. Ki sired both FC AFC as well as CH pups; Quar sired neither.



> FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Cdn OTCH TNT's Explosion, FDHF, OHF, Am UD, FDHF OS call name, How FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Cdn OTCH TNT's Explosion, FDHF, OHF, Am UD, FDHF OS call name, Boomer." #1 Open & Amateur Golden in the USA - 2003 & 2004 #1 Open & Amateur Golden in the US.


Now you are talking great Golden, who was Boomer’s breeder.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Heck of a history lesson Jim...thanks for posting all that info....be safe on the road


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Jim Pickering said:


> I am on the road with the dogs and do not have my cheat sheet or the GRCA Year Books with me so the following is from fuzzy memory.
> 
> The all time high point FT Golden was NAFC FC Topbrass Cotton who accumulated 240+ points.
> 
> ...


I was hoping we'd draw you into this. Thanks, Jim. You're right! You have put Boomer on that list! Yeah, who Was that breeder? 
And, I think I saw Chick had 117 points. 
And, you also made a good point on the ones with the talent AND were able to throw that talent into their offspring. If we're talking about "Greatest of all time", we should be considering that too. 
BAIT


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## g_fiebelkorn (Jul 31, 2006)

Just a wild guess -- but I think Boomer's breeder is Jim and Kathy Pickering.

Jim, How is SD?

Maine is fine.

George Fiebelkorn


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## TexGold (Jan 27, 2009)

g_fiebelkorn said:


> Just a wild guess -- but I think Boomer's breeder is Jim and Kathy Pickering.
> 
> That is correct, and I might add that Boomer's great-grandsires were Cotton and Mighty Mo.


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## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

To answer Stoney's question asking "if Kato is the best Golden ever?", I would have to say I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. Kato's record is very impressive. I think it might be more like an MH dog that gets 12 passes in a row.

I can't really say for sure since Kato has not competed against what I consider the best. Win 10 AA stakes that may have 100+ dogs entered in one year over here and I will have to agree.

I have had the pleasure of watching Cotton and appreciated his greatness at that time.

I have been around Pardner, Mo and Zeke and knew of their Greatness. It is really a shame when an injury or health issue or premature death keeps a dog from reaching their true level of greatness as in the case of Zeke.

I got to train with and handle "Devil". I think he and Cotton have been the two greatest producers so far and of course Barty is right there too.

Bill Eckett I think still puts Rocky as the best Golden ever.

I think Cotton might rank highest overall based on accomplishments. Hopefully there are others still running or that will be running in the not too distant future that will give him a run for his money!

I don't want to think of "Best Golden" as a thing of the past, but rather something to look forward to!


John


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## Troopers Mom (Nov 19, 2005)

Fire N Ice said:


> Hey Steve, not very knowledgable of the trial success of goldens, but when I began in 1991 Jerry Patopea was running a great dog let alone golden named FC-AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo who after looking through my old Retriever News accumulated 120.5 All-Age points 88.5 Open and 32 Amateur who was owned by Gerry Heiner. What are the high point goldens of all-time not just by opinion but by the numbers.


That is the one I was going to mention. We have a Mo daughter, Master's A Fine Time Lucille, who is running derby and HT. She is a little spitfire.
Arleen


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

"Zeke" stories Bait?
Here's one that I still laugh about.
Mickey and I were down at a Golden Specialty training.(down south can't remember old age or ???) Think it was at the Busch.
We were training in a hay field that had round bales in it.
Bill was running land blinds with "Zeke". He was on his way to such and Bill blew the whistle. "Zeke" was in line with a haybale. Bill blew his whistle and "Zeke" jumped on top off that bale and sat as pretty as a picture.
I still can picture that redhead sitting on that bale. Took the cast and got the blind.
He went on to get a 2nd(Open??)at the Specialty and qualify for his 1st National as a 2yr. old.
Ginger pulled her favorite trick and came into heat.:-x
So I had lots of free time and took lots of pictures. Cool pictures to look at now.
Had Sam Silverman with "Zap" + 3 pups from that "Zap" x "Jessie" litter.(Zeke, Cappy and Ginger)
Also have pictures of a number of FC/AFC Goldens all in one place.
Trooper and Darrell F.,Barb. H. , Judy R. and her crew, Sam Silverman with "Zap" and "Rosie"...
Sue


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## Fire N Ice (Nov 12, 2007)

Jim Pickering said:


> I am on the road with the dogs and do not have my cheat sheet or the GRCA Year Books with me so the following is from fuzzy memory.
> 
> The all time high point FT Golden was NAFC FC Topbrass Cotton who accumulated 240+ points.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jim. I knew someone had to have access or recall of the facts, thank you.


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

A few persons are out there who could give personal information about some of the Goldens that Jim mentioned. Obviously Jackie could write Cotton stories, Val Walker could write up about Lad. Barb Howard could give original stories re Barty, and Terry Woods could tell us about Pardner. 

Val would be a wonderful source as she knows all the old pedigrees, knew many of the dogs mentioned, and has lots of great stories about them. Terry and I traveled together to trials for many years, and I will see about twisting her arm to write something up about Pardner----Pardner was finishing up his career when Terry and I began hitting the trial circuit together.

Suzanne Burr knew a lot of the old Goldens and saw them run. Nona Bauer has written about many of them in her various books. The best stories are by those who were around those dogs---such as what Sue wrote about Zeke and the hay bale.

Statistics say a certain amount, but personal stories put the meat on the bones.

Glenda


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

[Glenda these are the Macopin Goldens

Macopin Exspectation (Speck), Mrs Murnane, Macopin Robin Hood

Search for the Spirit Lake Duke (2 parts)


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

I'm curious as to who were the big name Lab contemporaries of the great Goldens. Who did they go head to head with and show it's about the dog and not the breed?

M


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## sammydog (Jul 11, 2008)

I would love to hear more first hand stories! I enjoy looking at the pictures as well. Thanks for sharing.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

All time Field Goldens;

1) FC AFC Chief Sands 
Chief was a dog that could have been a Dual CH had his owner wanted to show him. Big, fast and smart were his traits.

2)Dual CH Tigathoe's Funky Farquar 
Physically, there were no better looking Field Labs than the Tigathoe dogs.

3) Tigathoe's Kiowa II 
A great producer of Field Goldens that also had great physical type. Not the small, narrow Barty types we see today and I owned a Barty male. Barty produced a lot of go but a big deviation from breed type. 

4) NFC AFC Topbrass Cotton 
A Barty son with lots of talent. Makes the Top 5 simply on his NFC.

5) FC AFC Wyngates Sungold Sundance 
A great marking, blind and water dog. No one ever told Sundance he was a golden;-) Ask Tommy Sorenson what he thought of Sundance compared to many FC AFC Labs. Sundance was a Lad grandget that was the best to ever come out of the Sungold line.


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## TXduckdog (Oct 17, 2007)

Richard Halstead said:


> Another that we don't think of because it was before most of us
> 
> Stilroven Nitro Express
> 
> ...



Richard...what was your source for that photo?


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Sue Kiefer said:


> "Zeke" stories Bait?
> Here's one that I still laugh about.
> Mickey and I were down at a Golden Specialty training.(down south can't remember old age or ???) Think it was at the Busch.
> We were training in a hay field that had round bales in it.
> ...



Sue...in all your spare time  ..is it possible to post Zeke on top of the bale, and or any of the other photos that you have? That would be really, really cool!! ...


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

Franco said:


> All time Field Goldens;
> 
> 
> 5) FC AFC Wyngates Sungold Sundance
> A great marking, blind and water dog. No one ever told Sundance he was a golden;-) Ask Tommy Sorenson what he thought of Sundance compared to many FC AFC Labs. Sundance was a Lad grandget that was the best to ever come out of the Sungold line.


Soooo... ...tell us what Tommy Sorensen said about him. Stories-please!

M


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Thanks, Richard, for the great photo. Both those dogs look like many of the competitive Goldens running trials right now.

Because of a big storm (so no training), I have been working on articles for 2010 in the GRNews, and there are some good ones from Marcia Schlehr about some of the early Goldens. 

Bait had a great suggestion that I get some articles in the GRNews about some of the great Goldens, including fairly current ones. This winter when at home (am in Montana right now), will go through some books I have and try to get some interviews with persons such as Val Walker and Terry Woods about some of their dogs and a lot of their memories. Maybe Jerry Patopea would be willing to write an article about Mo once field trial season is over---I will call him about this.

Suzanne----find your old photos, NOW!!!

The book on early Field Trials in the US co-authored by Fred Kampo has an excellent chapter on the early Goldens---I had reviewed that chapter pre-publication and loved it. I have given a copy of the book to the GRCA archives. It is a great read all the way through, and, Miriam, it relates what competition these Goldens ran against.

If any of you have dogs you would like featured and/or if you would like to write about one or more of these great Goldens, please contact me privately. Here is your chance to become a published author! If you train with a pro who trained and knew well one of these Goldens, an interview would be great. Also, if you have any suggestions about this subject, I would be delighted to hear from you.

Glenda


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## sammydog (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks Glenda, I think that is a great idea for the GRNews! I cannot wait to read them.

Jessica


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

I thought of another good golden
FC-AFC Benjamin Rajah Frisbie
among dogs sired by Ben is top derby dog, Ben's Enchanted Budweiser. Buddy died during surgery at the U of MN Vet School when an automatic anesthia machine failed. Hennepin County Retriever Club had a traveling trophy for a club member with most derby points that year received the Buddy Trophy. The trophy had a porcelin oval with apainting of Buddy, I think the trophy was retired to Darrel and Vi Frisbie's home.


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## Klamath Hunting Gold (Nov 12, 2005)

Thanks for the info on Buddy.... I always wondered what happened to him. 

Enlightened thanks.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Miriam Wade said:


> Soooo... ...tell us what Tommy Sorensen said about him. Stories-please!
> 
> M


 
Sundance was whelped around 77-78 and competed till around 1986 when his owner and wife started having babies. He was FC AFC by four and was trained Amish. Ken also had a Golden female that was two years younger that also earned FC AFC by four. I believe Holly was a Pat Sadler breeding and Sundance was bred by Buddy Clesi who had several Goldens all coming from Val Walker.

Tommy was the biggest Pro that ran down here at the time. In fact, the first big dog truck rig I saw was his. Tommy had quite a few clients in the New Orleans area so we saw him twice a year, J J Sweezy in the Spring, a few other Pros and the youngster Danny Farmer. 

Sundance was the dog to beat in the spillway. There wasn’t a more dominant dog running there at the time and anyone that knows the spillway can tell you just how tough the grounds are. I know Tommy had a lot of respect for the dog because it was rare that Sundance wasn’t in the colors on Sunday afternoon. Ken wasn’t one to travel all over the region and country trying to qualify for the National and National Am. He basically just ran the local trials which worked well because of the consistency of the dog. I’m not sure what he ended up with career wise as I’m sure it wasn’t a whole lot. That’s because he didn’t run that many trials. Ken also turned down some major money from folks wanting to buy Sundance. Ken use to say, “How can I sell a part of my family”?


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## 150class (Jul 1, 2003)

I just read this for the second time today - good stuff! Keep the dialog going!


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Not yet the greatest of all time, but this one is off to a good start. Next week his owners will start to add water and if he takes to that …….look out you next greatest of all time in the making 










just for you Bubba


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

The best I have seen and one who I would have been proud to own

FC-AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

John Gassner said:


> To answer Stoney's question asking "if Kato is the best Golden ever?", I would have to say I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. Kato's record is very impressive. I think it might be more like an MH dog that gets 12 passes in a row.
> 
> I can't really say for sure since Kato has not competed against what I consider the best. Win 10 AA stakes that may have 100+ dogs entered in one year over here and I will have to agree.
> 
> John


 Gee John I think you sell Kato a bit short. kato has amassed 240 championship AA points. We only award 6 points for the winner and zero for any other place except national type events where you get 12 for a win and 6 for second. To compare kato to a MH is a bit rich. Katos acheivements need to be measured against the facts that he competes in much smaller fields than US goldens and our sport is 100% amateur. Almost all of kato's wins have been at the expense of the best dogs in the nation in both NSW and victoria which are the 2 strongest states 
Of the 264 nations in the world we are only discussing the great goldens from 3 of them so this thread should be more aptly titled the greatest goldens that we collectively know about. in measureing the achievements of all the great goldens past and present we will never get a definitive answer but it is just fantastic that this thread has become a bit of a celebration of golden retriever excellence
keep the storys coming I think we all enjoy them


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

EdA said:


> The best I have seen and one who I would have been proud to own
> 
> FC-AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo



Stories????? Thanks!

And thanks Franco for a great read about Sundance. All the history from everyone is great. It's something to bring the dogs to life and feel you know them beyond a title and pedigree.

M


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## junbe (Apr 12, 2003)

What about a Golden that won the high point Derby in the United States. Qualified for the National Open as a Derby dog. Later achieved the ultimate goal--winning the National Championship. This dog is not even mentioned by anyone? Do we forget our History? Greatness is defined in competition at the highest level.

Jack


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Not one vote for Rip? Wasn't it Billy Wunderlich who rated him the greatest *retriever* of all time?

Amy Dahl


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## gdgnyc (May 4, 2009)

FC-AFC Mioaks Main Event (Rocky). I had one of his pups.


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## Jim Harvey (Feb 7, 2007)

badbullgator said:


> Not yet the greatest of all time, but this one is off to a good start. Next week his owners will start to add water and if he takes to that …….look out you next greatest of all time in the making
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Corey, you are so bad!


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## Suzanne Burr (Jul 13, 2004)

This is a fun thread! I saw Mo, Cotton, Pardner, Bozo (Chief Sands), Devil, FC/AFC Sir Arthur, FC/AFC Joaquin Nugget, and more wonderful goldens run. My brain hurts trying to remember all of the old boys. My most favorite just based on enthusiasm had to be Sir Arthur. When I met him, he lived at Random Lake, WI with pro Ray Sommers. He would spin to the line, spin on the line if given a chance, and thought retrieving was the best thing in the world to be doing--ever. He produced pretty well
I was fortunate to pheasant hunt over Joaquin Nugget after he was retired. I swear there was no better nose on a dog before or since. He could root out pheasants where we were sure there were none. I saw Bozo run in Wisconsin as a youngster and then Dick Sampson brought him to California to run some Opens. He got to the line, called for the birds, and before the judges could call his number Bozo was gone!! All you could hear was a dejected "Here", from Dick. That might have been the last trial Bozo ran. 
Pardner was a marking machine. He, Smoke'n Red Apache, and Painter's Daily Double (High Point Derby Dog) all ran Derbies together and it was a toss up as to who would take home the blue. As I recall, 'Pache missed California Derby Ch by 1 point, and Paint, who won, only beat him once or twice in the Derby. I think Pardner might have had more first places than all other colors combined. Bill Woods once said he either won or went out and Terry said you could count all his other ribbons on both hands. He was just a fantastic marking boy and sweet as could be. He also duck hunted in the off season. 
Mo was very intelligent and wow, could he mark. There are some dogs you don't bother watching at a trial, but Mo was never one of them. He grabbed your attention from the get-go. 
I got to watch Cotton when he ran a National in Redding. I think it was the 9th series--pardon my not being absolutely positive, but I had a major migraine that morning. The test was a water triple. The gallery had a choice of watching the double side of the test or the long retired. My former husband was gunning the flyer side, so I opted to watch the retired side figuring he could fill me in later on how Cotton did. Cotton got the right hand set of marks pretty quick. Then came the long retired. The weather was cold, wet, steel grey water and sky, and the wind was blowing at our backs. Well, Jackie sent Cotton out and he swam and swam and swam right past the stick pile where the bird had been thrown. There were about a dozen of these darn piles built all over this pond. He just kept swimming with the wind at his back. Larry Linthicum and I both said to each other, "Where's he going?" Larry grabbed his binoculars and said, "I see a little black spot on the water--way out there." Cotton kept swimming and Jackie said later, "I nearly peed my pants when he kept on swimming, but I decided to trust him."
Well, Cotton's bird had broken loose from the stick pile and the wind pushed it way the heck out there, but he kept going. The last series, darn if he didn't hunt his flyer up one side and down the other or I think he might have won that year. 
One dog I never got to see run was a boy named Holway Leo***. I understand he was really something. I did however, get to see his son Winter Rye***. And holy toledo! What a dog--he was fast, accurate, and so exciting to watch. I'm sure it took his owner Bill Agnew a lot of effort to keep a handle on him. Winter Rye never got to be an FC. As I recall, he died of heat prostration after running one day. But what a great dog to watch.
Gotta get ready for work--will try and scan those pix.
Suzanne B


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

junbe said:


> What about a Golden that won the high point Derby in the United States. Qualified for the National Open as a Derby dog. Later achieved the ultimate goal--winning the National Championship. This dog is not even mentioned by anyone? Do we forget our History? Greatness is defined in competition at the highest level.
> 
> Jack


Jack,
Are you taling about Dr. L.M. Evans dog Shelter Cove Beauty who won the Country Life Trophy (Derby) in 1941 and in 1944 was the National winner? He also owned another golden that won the National in 1950, Beautywoods Tamarack. 

He owned several other goldens and finally a lab, Gilmore's Peggy.
When Dr. Evans bred the Lab to Webway's Crusader only produced a single titled dog, Beautywood's Carbon Copy. Clippy as he was called was trained by Joe Schomer for the Murnanes Macopin Kennels. Clippy finished the 1956 National.

Dr. Evans son lives in the Twin City area. His son also a doctor, Dr. Ed Evans, who doesn't have memorobelia of these dogs. I don't know if this is true but the story is Dr. L.M. Evans got Tony Berger started, Del-Tone Kennels. We all know of the 2X National winner, Del-Tone Colvin.


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Suzanne, I thought 'Pache did win the Hi Pt California Derby-----think I might have it written down somewhere at home. Start pulling some info, Suzanne, and/or sitting down and writing some of this up so it can be published.

Just spoke to Terry Woods, and she is going to send me a lot of info (including an article by Bill when Pardner got his FC/AFC) plus photos so I can put together something on him for the GRNews.

I do have a short article on Rip by Marcia Schlehr which I hope to use and maybe combine it with some other information "I think" I have on him at home. Also have some from her on Nitro Express, Stilrovin Rip's Pride, King Midas of Woodend, and Ready Always of Marianhill.
Would love to get hold of some photos that can be reproduced of these dogs.

Will be talking to Jerry about Mo.

I am all excited about this project and if anyone has info, etc., they want to send to me, you can send it to [email protected]. I will return anything asap if it is on a "borrow only" basis.

Will see if I can get some material on Red Devil as well. Maybe Pat DeNardo would be a good source re some of those early dogs so will contact her as well.

There is quite a bit about Shelter Cove Beauty in the book done by Fred Kampo and if I remember correctly, also in Charlie Morgan's book----naturally, both these are at home so will get to them when I am back in California. Looks like my winter will be busy.

Again, if any of you want to write an article on one of the "greats", please let me know. It would be for the GRNews.

Glenda


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Stoney,

I have wondered from time to time, how Kato and Jim, would go in the US especially tested re marking ability. 

Jim is a gifted trainer, no doubt. A true dog whisperer. Kato a marvellous dog, as have every golden Jim has owned. I will never forget when water drills were being demonstrated at one particular seminar given by an American visitor. I asked Jim if he liked the drills, and he stated I already did them, but they had no name. 

Jim is a great judge also, as well as a fantastic human being. 

Jim just knows what to do naturally.


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

Aussie
you cant assess kato by speculating as to how he would go against the Americans.I for one would not be confident of his ability to take on the best US dogs on those big 300 yard quads. However kato has not been trained to do that nor is he ever recquired to to. Kato has other non applicable skills that US dogs don't have. Relocation marking ability, the ability to mark birds going over hills , double falls etc
Im sure the americans would find Jim and Kato very formitable opposition if they ever came to australia and competed on our home turf
The measure of Kato 's greatness is his 240 point record and his extreme consistancy over a lot of years. he is a trial dog par excellence. Is he the best of all time?? the answer is a pineapple So far only 3 countrys have been discussed Australia, Canada, and the USA there are another 260 odd countrys which could or may have very high quality golden retrievers. I wonder about South Africa? they are maybe the premier dog trainers in the world today at least in other dog disciplines. 
Its great that the Americans have lots of terrific stories about great goldens past and present, because in Australia we really have only Kato


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## Jim Pickering (Sep 17, 2004)

Glenda Brown said:


> Again, if any of you want to write an article on one of the "greats", please let me know. It would be for the GRNews.
> Glenda


What about an article about Kato from down under? I for one would certainly be interested in reading Kato's story, as well as stories about past AKC FT Golden Retrievers.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

stoney said:


> Aussie
> you cant assess kato by speculating as to how he would go against the Americans.


Peter, Party pooper! LOL. My focus was on labradors while in the US...but I did notice some goldens during an US amateur national, weekend field trials, AKC hunt tests, and training. 

Kato, I agree, is the most successful golden in Australia, heck is one of the most successful trial dogs. Also Kato's genetic health and his pedigree's longevity.


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Jim Pickering said:


> What about an article about Kato from down under? I for one would certainly be interested in reading Kato's story, as well as stories about past AKC FT Golden Retrievers.


Yup! How 'bout it? Pictures too!
BAIT


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Bait said:


> Yup! How 'bout it? Pictures too!
> BAIT


Jim and Bait, Jim Kato's owner is the humble type. I have never heard him complain....even when most thought he and Kato had won a national (or two).


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## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

I agree with Jim and Bait. It would be great to hear more about this team. 

There have been some very nice Goldens from Europe also. Most of them only get to compete in a few trials a year I think, not the 20+ that many US dogs do.

Kato MAY be the best ever. I don't know and I doubt we ever will. You could win every trial in your part of the world and it would still not carry the weight of winning a single AA stake somewhere else.....like the USA for example;-).

The best Golden in the world may only have a JH behind its name (or no titles at all) but then how do you know for sure it's the best?

The best in any sport is usually the best athlete in the toughest venue. Think NBA, MLB, NFL, PGA etc. For Retrievers, US AA stakes are generally considered the Gold standard!

Keep the good stuff coming and tell us more about Kato. I also think that Paul Bakewell had a very impressive Golden or two or three....not sure about best since the game has evolved so much since his time.


John


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> The best in any sport is usually the best athlete in the toughest venue. Think NBA, MLB, NFL, PGA etc. For Retrievers, US AA stakes are generally considered the Gold standard!


I wonder what Mr. Milner or Mr. Stewart would think of the above statement. Come to think of it what would Col. Blimp or Peter Betteridge think?

I think we all judge the dogs by our own measuring stick. To me that's US field trials. To others it'll be their game. The dogs are in it for the birds and I bet they don't care.


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

John Gassner said:


> I agree with Jim and Bait. It would be great to hear more about this team.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


geez john you dont have a very high opinion of our trials do you. have you ever seen australian retrieving trials? live or on video?
its all how you perceive it john
the best athlete in the toughest sport and you give the example of the NFL!!! a small one country inter city competition Rugby and cricket are thousands of times bigger and much more competitive but that doesnt mean that no NFL player would make the top thousand best athletes in the world today.it is possible although highly unlikely that the most gifted NFL player may be on a par with some of the better rugby players even though he competes in an inferior competition
Retrievers only go where their owners take them and kato cannot be judged by american standards.to belittle his acheivements is unfair(even in jest)
some pics of kato are in my original post
maybe aussie can get jim to write katos story for the GR newsletter
Howard you are spot on since none of us have a global picture.there is no Gold standard
another Kato pic
http://www.australianworkingretriev...wtopic.php?f=1&t=1639&p=7140&hilit=kato#p7140


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

I was just reading through the thread now and was thinking about seeing if we could get an article and photos on Kato, and then I read Jim's post. I totally agree with Jim.

I would love to have the Kato story to put in the GRNews. How about it??

Glenda


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## redline (Apr 19, 2003)

I haven't read every word here did anyone mention Cotton won a national Am?
Cotton was not fast had a very slow return. Early collar methods contributed.
However my first all age judging point came when Cotton was about 10 he broke on the water marks. He lived to a ripe old age as I recall.

Zeke was out of my Jessie (Mioaks Sparklin Jezabel QAA) she also produced AFC Sangamo's Little Fever and some QAAs. I remember at one Nat Am when Zeke was running all the pros that were there stopped doing what they were doing and got in the gallery to watch him. Jessie also died young Rockey her litter mate lived to 14 go figure. 

Bens Enchanted Budweiser also was a young phenome who died as I recall getting his hips done. 

Jan


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

redline said:


> Zeke was out of my Jessie (Mioaks Sparklin Jezabel QAA) she also produced AFC Sangamo's Little Fever and some QAAs. I remember at one Nat Am when Zeke was running all the pros that were there stopped doing what they were doing and got in the gallery to watch him. Jessie also died young Rockey her litter mate lived to 14 go figure.


Thanks, Jan. That's the story I was remembering.
Stony, Glenda's not kidding. She can do it. Really.
BAIT


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Do you suppose that a prepotent male can affect his grandget? What I am wondering if itwas Cotton's sire Haloway Barty as Cotton himslf. Look at all the good Lean Mac that pass on Lean Mac traits.

I was there when Cotton was chosen as the National Amateur Champion. As I remember he ran on the retrieves, but walked back. Did he know he was winning or his way of saying "Look what I found"?


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## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Howard N said:


> I wonder what Mr. Milner or Mr. Stewart would think of the above statement. Come to think of it what would Col. Blimp or Peter Betteridge think?
> 
> I think we all judge the dogs by our own measuring stick. To me that's US field trials. To others it'll be their game. The dogs are in it for the birds and I bet they don't care.


Milner and Stewart and anyone else can think what they want. There are are some aspects of other sports and even dog sports that are more demanding and difficult than what we have here. MOST in the know consider the AA stakes that we have here to be the highest level overall.

I am not trying to diminish the accomplishments of Kato or any other dog playing in any other venue. I just don't know how they would stack up since I don't have a measuring stick that measures both apples and oranges.

Stoney I do have a high opinion of your sport. I have watched the videos on more than one occaision. Very impressive.

You can also add rugby, soccer and cricket to the list as well as ping pong and badminton. I was not commenting on whcih sport in particular is the toughest. I meant that the NFL is generally considered tougher and higher in difficulty than high school, college, pee wee, arena and CFL. Don't you agree?

Herding dog trials or sled dogs might offer higher levels of certain aspects of dogs ability for instance, but I am confining the discussion to retriever field events and the associated "best".

Lighten up, this is a good topic and good discussion. No need for attacks or getting overly defensive.

One thing that might be better as another thread is a rediscussion of the evolution of retriever field events. I'm not sure how much the Autrailian events have evolved? To my understanding, they have not changed much in Europe while they have changed quite a bit in North America (although they have been non-existant in Mexico).

In competitive sports, this evolution usually increases the difficulty of the standard. From what I have seen and heard of the trials in Australia, they started off much more difficult than those in the US say 75 years ago.

That's why in the US the hunt test games emerged. Not everone was willing or even able to compete at the US AA level. 

That's also why it's hard to compare the great dogs of a different era to those of today. Training techniques and the games have evolved along with the dogs.

John


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## Suzanne Burr (Jul 13, 2004)

Oh dear! Glenda, does this mean if Apache didn't get the California Derby Ch you want to rescind that breeding??? Apache had 13 Derby points in 3 trials. 'Pache aged out in April. Paint was 5 months younger than Apache and he ran 9 trials and got 14 points so he won it.

By the way, somewhere in about 1500 slides I think I have a picture of Sundance's Grandmom....if not her, some other famous old grandma. If I can ever figure out in my spare time which box or which drawer it's in, I'll send you a copy. Kind of fun to have. Don't have time to research it right now, but there's a wonderful correlation between these long gone goldens and what's running today. It was Sundance's Grandmom who started it with a breeding to FC/AFC Misty's Sungold Lad and that produced three females who in turn each produced a fantastic pup: Sundance came from Wyngate's Tuff Enuf, FC Windbreaker's Razzmatazz from Nutmeg's Harvestgold Heather***, and your Luke's great grandmom Geordie's Golden Gibson Girl*** who produced then Tartan Golden Molly. Don't nobody kill this lol if I have this mixed up, but I think it's right--at least that's the way I wrote it down in an old ledger and that was long before k9-data. Oh, in the same litter, she also produced FC/AFC Sungold Talisman. Wow! Used to love to have the time to do this genealogy stuff on fluffies.

BTW, I tried to scan the pix of Nitro Express and the field trial at the office, but my new computer hasn't been hooked up to the scanner yet.....now that means I have to read the direction book for my printer here......aaarrgggg.
Suzanne B


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

Jan is being humble when it comes to "Jessie". She was a very nice bitch who was all-aged qual.+++. She also produced some awesome dogs other than "Zeke".
"Gunner" comes to mind.
A might bit bias.;-)
Sue


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Well, Suzanne, if he wasn't Hi Point California Derby dog, I think I should at least get the stud fee back! 

Suzanne, collect all that "stuff" you have, make copies of it for which I will reimburse you, and send them on. Already have a couple of things going on Rip (first Golden FC in US), Lucky (Ready Always of Marianhill) and Nitro Express. Worked on it some today. Will be writing to you privately on all this.

Stoney,I really mean that about getting an article on Kato published in the GRNews. If you would like to contact me privately about it, my e-mail is [email protected]. We have had some great articles on English Goldens who have won the IGL in England. I have been trying to get one done on the European field trials and need to "encourage" my source to get it to me.

Glenda


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Stoney, just pulled up the website listed and those photos of Kato there would make a good start. Can you send them to me at 300 dpi and over 500kb, the higher the resolution, the better they will print in the magazine.

Glenda


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

glenda
thankyou for your interest in Kato
I will try and contact the person who took the photos and get him to email them to you. Katos owners ,jim and Alison hardgraves can be contacted via australianworkingretrievercentral.org.au. Jim is a very modest person and never"promotes" kato but he and alison may be prepared to write a story for your magazine. I think its terriffic that American golden retriever people would be prepared to honour a great great dog from another country. I am also sure that Jim and Alison would be flattered and thrilled that you are gracious enough to wont to do an article on their dog
cheers peter


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

stoney said:


> glenda
> I think its terriffic that American golden retriever people would be prepared to honour a great great dog from another country.


You must have devised your trials based upon what you feel merits a great retriever in your part of the world. Any dog who rises to the occasion deserves respect. I can't wait to read Kato's story!!

Best-

M


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Hi Peter:

I just heard from Julie who is going to contact Jim about an article. Will phone him and talk to him this weekend at a trial. I will write to him as well and hope all of you in the Australian field trial world encourage Jim to do it.

If the photographer can e-mail me the photos, have him e-mail them to my personal address: [email protected]. They need to come in high resolution and a big file---ie., the more pixels the better!

Once it is published I will make sure Jim and Alison get a copy of the magazine featuring the article. I am excited about this and know there are many, many Golden persons who will love reading about Kato.

My daughter was an AFS exchange student in Australia when she was 16. She absolutely loved the country and the people there. Her "family" lived in a suburb of Sydney and she attended Abbotsleigh Girls School. Different members of her family later came and spent some time with us. We could not have picked a better family for her to have while in Australia. All the Australians she encountered treated her royally.

Glenda


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Thanks for the return Email Glenda.

Jim Hargreaves was surprised but delighted with the request.

The rest is in your and Jim's capable hands. Describing our trials may be the most difficult, comparing to US field trials, and various hunt tests. If I can help in any way, let me know.


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## signgirl (Jun 4, 2006)

As far as current Goldens running, at least in East, a significant percentage are out of Rugby, and a ton are QAA. Like Northern Dancer for T'Breds, he seemed to pass on his best traits. 
He may not have had a ton of points but has surely helped with the resurgence of competative AA Field Goldens.


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

Glenda
it is a very small world .I live very close to Abbotsleigh and my sister went to school there in the 70.s I have spent many happy times in santa barbara in the 1970's as well.I lived in santa clara and was befriended by an ex tv actor called fess parker who lived above the cricket ground in santa barbara and still does we were both tennis nuts and i used to give him a hit whenever i ventured south.
I have communicated to chris our photographer extradionaire on AWRC and he tells me he has sent you some photos already
maybe at some latter stage you could post the article up on AWRC.No doubt Kato will be nominate for the Hall of fame at some stage and he would become the first golden retreiver to receive such an honour
we are working on having our HOF resplendant with articles and video of all the inductees, i hope we finally get there
Miriam
our trials are devised to most closely simulate a typical days duck shooting whilst being able to evaluate dogwork under the ambit of equality.Thus having someone stand out there in a white coat shooting a gun to get a dogs attention is not what we have in mind, we use concealed catapults.
poor line manners are heavily penalized as is vocalizing at the line, creeping and coming out of the hide. an australian retriever is expected to follow the barrell of the shotgun and mark birds that he sees up but not down and vise versa
it is quiet usual to pick up a blind before the marks and our distances are out to about 200 yards although many all age stakes are alot longer especially the blinds. Over the last 20 years we have become more americanized much to the annoyance of some but the standard has lifted dramatically


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Hi Peter:

I downloaded some photos from Chris Van Eekelen this morning and also got a business e-mail for Jim and will be writing him in about two minutes!

You were really close to where I live in Santa Barbara----if the cricket fields you refer to are what we call the "polo grounds" the original ones are right near my home. Fess Parker's kids were in the same school as mine. I live in what is known as Hope Ranch and Fess had a home there. When I would ride on the beach, I used to encounter Fess riding at the same time. Fess has a winery now in the Santa Ynez Valley.

I just want to give everyone a heads up in that all the info for the Sept/Oct issue of the GRNews has gone off and is being organized now. I have everything for the Field Theme Issue (Nov/Dec) in a flash drive ready to go. I could only get a story about Kato in that issue if we could pull it together immediately. But, the next issue in which I can put field articles is the Mar/Apr 2010 one, and I definitely can get it in there. I know that all sounds a long way off, but I am starting to pull together articles for 2010 right now.

I will arrange with Sylvia, the editor, to get a pdf of the article that could go in the AWRC and I will send Jim a copy of the issue published here.

This should be fun!!!

Glenda


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

signgirl said:


> As far as current Goldens running, at least in East, a significant percentage are out of Rugby, and a ton are QAA. Like Northern Dancer for T'Breds, he seemed to pass on his best traits.
> He may not have had a ton of points but has surely helped with the resurgence of competative AA Field Goldens.


I was wondering when Rugby was going to be mentioned. Back in 1999-2000 I was running derbys against Rugby and Auggie with Yoda, that was a tough curcuit. Rugby was a pinpoint marker and ran very straight lines, plus he was very good in the water. He later developed issues on the water blind, but if he got to the fourth series, watch out. It's interesting how pros are generally more objective than amateurs about the dogs on their truck compared to the competition, I remember Eric Fangsrud having a chat with Don Remein and asking him who was the best marker on his truck and Don said he wasn't on his truck, but Linda Brown who trained with him every day had the best marker in that Rugby dog.

For best ever I don't know, but I do know that Zeke dominated out here back then the way Auggie, Carbon or Chopper dominate now. He WAS the dog to beat back then, plus he had everything going for him from great looks, high intellegence to fantastic style. Like I've said before my Cody inherited Zeke's good looks, style and drive, but though he eventually became QAA and got his MH, he was no Zeke. One of the best duck hunting dogs ever though.

I've told this story that I heard from Dave Hangus before, but this seems like a good thread to repeat it. Bill was running Zeke on a tough set of marks where the line to the key bird cut through some tall cat tails rushes. Most dogs cheated the cat tails, lost their line and either couldn't find the bird or had big hunts as a result. Zeke cut right into the cat tails on line, but actually tried too hard and fought the cat tails until he was too deep into them. Zeke found a muskrat lodge that he was able to climb up on to get his bearings, let's see the flyer station is over there, Dad's back there so the bird must be right over *there*. Reoriented he proceeded to pin that mark. Dave said it was the best demonstration of intellegence he ever saw. It was a huge loss to our sport when he passes prematurely at a young age.

John


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

Glenda,
I would suggest a call to Barbara Stevens, Retriever Hall of Fame head Secretary. Paul Bakewell III scrapbook is part of the collectionand they might be willing to scan the image for you. Explain your project to her she might offer help.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

stoney said:


> Glenda
> it is a very small world .I live very close to Abbotsleigh and my sister went to school there in the 70.s I have spent many happy times in santa barbara in the 1970's as well.I lived in santa clara and was befriended by an ex tv actor called fess parker


Davie Crockett! I along with millions of other baby boomers had **** skin hats growing up in the fifties. Fess Parker was my hero.

John


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Yup! And, Rugby was a great producer too. Still being proven. 
And, thanks John. Love hearing those Zeke stories. Reminds me of my friends first Golden, back in the mid 70's. The one who got me started with Goldens. Then, (get this) his next dog, who was a littermate to mine, was named Kato. Hear that, Stoney? Yup! Tidewater's Kaptain Kato. And, he was a holy tearer too. 
Hey Glenda! When is the puppy issue deadline?
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=055.jpg
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=063.jpg
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=078.jpg
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=082.jpg
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=037-1.jpg
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=012.jpg
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=061-2.jpg
http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/Bait_01/?action=view&current=062-2.jpg


Because any one of these could be the next greatest Golden of all time.


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

John Robinson said:


> Davie Crockett! I along with millions of other baby boomers had **** skin hats growing up in the fifties. Fess Parker was my hero.
> 
> John


Now you're showing your age, John! 
I don't know about that show. My parents told me about it. LOL


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

And, beings we're bringing up all the great ones, let's not forget FC-AFC Max Q Jake JH FDHF. He's the real thing. Another one who's got that "someting extra." Right John & Andy?
BAIT


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

John Robinson said:


> Davie Crockett! I along with millions of other baby boomers had **** skin hats growing up in the fifties. Fess Parker was my hero.
> 
> John


Yup!!

Born on a mountaintop regards,


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## truray4 (Sep 15, 2006)

I don't know about the greatest of all time but I do agree with Medie Robinson's opinion of Rugby, a dog that seems to produce great pups with all the right attributes, to bad he's no longer with us.


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

John Robinson said:


> Davie Crockett! I along with millions of other baby boomers had **** skin hats growing up in the fifties. Fess Parker was my hero.
> 
> John


john
fess parker is better known in australia for his role as daniel Boone. He tells some very funny stories about Ed Ames (mingo) and rosie Grier who was a massive ex NFL player.
fess was also on the mickey mouse club and is a fine singer. Crickey i am showing my age
Glenda
wow your kids went o school with Eli and Ashley it really is a global village. The polo grounds as you call them are one of the few places in California where cricket was played at least in the 1970's. Nowdays with the influx of all the Indian I.T. people the santa clara valley is awash with impromptu cricket matches
good luck with your article
cheers peter


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Bait:

Puppy issue is Jul/Aug and the deadline for an article is May 15, and for an ad is June 17.

Am sure one of yours will be the next Greatest Golden. In the meantime, how about an ad for the upcoming Nov/Dec Field Theme Issue! Loved your last one!

Stoney:

Eli is now the head of the Fess Parker Winery. Ashley has kids, lost her husband to an early unexpected death. Am not sure if she is now remarried. To all of you, Fess never wore his racoon hat around Santa Barbara!!! By the way, his wife has a tremendous voice and has a lot of talent herself. I suspect you played tennis at the courts right down from my home. 

Am still trying to reach Jim re Kato as my e-mail bounced back so want to see if there is another address where I can reach him. Possibly you could have him e-mail me directly. Thanks.

Glenda


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## Ausgold (Aug 11, 2009)

Glenda,

My name is Alison Hargreaves, my husband is Jim Hargreaves, owner and trainer of Kato.

I believe you are having trouble contacting Jim via his email. Please feel free to send me a message and I can give you our email addresses at work and home so that you can communicate directly with us.

We are quite excited that people in America are following Kato's progress and only wish that he was still a youngster so that we could keep competing with him, unfortunately he is reaching the retirement age. We currently have one of his son's in training and hope that they will continue to compete to the standard that Kato has set.

Regards

Alison


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Greatest Golden of All Time---that is the title for this thread. I discussed this and also Greatest Lab of All Time threads with my fellow trainers today. There are only three Goldens in the training group and the rest are Labs.

My personal opinion is that there is no "greatest of all time" in either breed. I think there definitely are ones that could be termed "GREAT".

Before tossing dog names about, it is important to set your criteria. First, do you mean greatest field trial dog? If you throw in the greatest producer, there are many variables: 
quality of bitches sent to studs, quality of studs bred to bitches; number of breedings which take place; did the pups get in homes where their potential could be maximized; and other variables. There have been some truly great field dogs who were not good producers as well as great producers that could even be described as lackluster in the field. Often it is necessary to have time go by so you gain a historical perspective on how good a producer a dog is.

On deciding on what dogs are "GREAT" field trial dogs, objective standards should be used. The number of points earned; the number of AA wins; the competition faced; the numbers of trials run; the number of qualifications for Nationals; the number of Nationals run and finishes are all objective criteria.

I also feel it is important to get the opinion of those that judged the dog; opinion of the trainer(s) of the dog either pro or amateur; opinions of pros & amateurs who have seen the dog run; the opinion of those that have competed against the dog---especially those who competed against the dog on a regular basis. Those giving opinions should have knowledge about what truly constitutes an outstanding field dog, not ones who do not compete at that level. Persons who knew the dog and not the reputation based on p.r. are truly valuable in getting a well rounded view of a dog. This would work as well for conformation champions!!!

Subjective opinions such as style, sagacity, courage, water attitude, etc., should come from those who were contemporaries and competed against, judged, and trained or knew the dog well. When this dog run, did you watch? Did you watch and have your heart go in your throat because of the work this dog did? Again, this refers to any breed, not just Goldens.

You cannot form your opinion of how "Great" a dog is based on rumors or heresay; of just being aware of a dog's name and never seeing that dog compete; seeing its name on RTF; owning a grandpup; or the owner of the dog being good at self-promotion. You need to know all the facts. If you base it just on objective records that is a far stronger view than those opinions which are based on heresay without any personal knowledge of the dog at all.

I personally have been told the "truth" about certain dogs by persons whose opinion you would assume you could respect. The problem was, I knew some of these dogs, and knew them well, which the person telling me did not realize. In some cases they were correct, yet sadly, in some they were maliciously or erroneously incorrect.

An Addendum: Today I was reminded about a Golden that could be considered "Great". Not the "greatest of all time" but Great. Using objective evaluation alone would lead you to consider this dog for the category of "Great". Subjective input from those who personally knew and watched the dog, judged the dog, and trained with the dog also help to put it in that category. The owner of this dog is not into self-promotion so many of us were either unaware of or had forgotten what this Golden had accomplished because of the passage of years. 

This dog is going to be written up in an article that will appear in the GRNews.

Glenda


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Glenda Brown said:


> *Greatest Golden of All Time---that is the title for this thread. I discussed this and also Greatest Lab of All Time threads with my fellow trainers today*. There are only three Goldens in the training group and the rest are Labs.
> 
> My personal opinion is that there is no "greatest of all time" in either breed. I think there definitely are ones that could be termed "GREAT".
> 
> ...


great post Ms Brown....but you have my curiousity as who they said was the greatest lab of all time....


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

We didn't think any Lab was the "greatest of all time", but we have known some superior Labs personally.

I have seen a lot of what I thought of as "Great Labs" over the years, running at Nationals, competing against, judging, training with, etc. If not all were truly Great, there have been many outstanding Labs (and Goldens) that I would have loved to own. Obviously, there are some of both breeds that are so above and beyond what most of us ever encounter that we have to acknowledge their superiority. There are many of the Labs mentioned on various threads on RTF that I would have been delighted to have known and seen in action.

One whose credentials I think would be hard to question was Shooter. I competed against Shooter on a regular basis. I trained with him and on rare occasions got to run him in training. I judged him a couple of times. I did pre-National training with him (in the group) on numerous occasions. I even ran him in half of a National Amateur when Steve was called away due to a death in the family. I have never been so nervous running a National as I knew everyone would never blame Shooter for a mistake, it would all fall on my head! I was quite relaxed running my own dog in comparison. Steve returned and finished running
Shooter and was a Finalist with him. The judges were kind enough to give me a Finalist pin for Shooter as well!

There are numerous Labs with outstanding records who were judged by their contemporaries as being Great----again, we have had some of these described on RTF.
I do think historical perspective is important in evaluating a dog. 

I think there are some everyone will agree on their being termed "Great", some others will each have their own supporters. What is the most important, to me, is the chance to know these dogs, learn about these dogs, and admire these dogs----when you watch certain dogs run and you almost tear up and your breath takes a break and you spontaneously burst into applause as they return with that last bird, you know you have seen something special.

Glenda


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Great post Glenda.


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## MKaty Gutermuth (Aug 17, 2004)

I have one that I miss everyday. Goldwing's Star Owned By Cynthia and Richard Williams 
Rick and Patti Roberts were Star's Trainers.


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## sammydog (Jul 11, 2008)

Great posts Glenda! I am looking forward to finding out who the "great" Golden is in the GRNews.


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## weebegoldens (Jan 25, 2005)

Talked to Val Walker a bit about some of the old greats.

She had one story in particular that is quite interesting. It was about Am. FC/AFC Can. NFC Oakcreek's Van Cleve FDHF. Roy Gonya had told her that he was VERY interested in the dog and the person that owned him at the time was considering selling him. Roy said "what can the dog do?" The owner(?) took 15+ balls (maybe tennis balls) threw them into a field with higher cover. Sent the dog who... MARKED them all very well. She said he was a very nice dog with alot of action. Roy called him a 'Pocket Rocket' 

She also mentioned her Sprite - when she ran in derby she got 5 1st - 6 2nd and 1 3rd. 
I will try to get more info from her in the Winter when she is snow bound.

Megan


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

That would be terrific, Megan. I will write Val as well and see what I can dig up from her. The best way is probably to sit down with her and get her to tell those stories and record them.

If you get Val and Jay together, you will hear all sorts of stories about many great dogs. Val is tremendous at pedigrees as well.

Keep me posted re any info you get from Val. Would love to hear what old photos she has that we could copy. Ask her about the one of Jay on the Christmas card Sal Gelardi sent out one year!!! 

Hugs to Pete!!!

Glenda


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## Jimmie Darnell (Sep 22, 2003)

My vote FC-AFC Jake JH


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Hi Jimmie:

Marked down your vote!! We need to get you a well-bred Golden pup. With your abilities as a trainer and handler you could really go far. Talk to Andy, he could probably line one up for you.

Say hi from me to all those black dogs you have. It seems like I only see you at Nationals---we will have to get you out here one of these days to run some trials. 

My best to you.

Glenda


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Jimmie Darnell said:


> My vote FC-AFC Jake JH


Great choice, I forgot about Jake and hope to see him back doing what he does best soon.

A dog that has done it in modern times.

How many living FC AFC Goldens are out there?

And to change the subject a little; when was the last time a Golden bitch earned FC AFC?


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## stevelow (May 13, 2004)

To the best of my knowledge, there are presently 6 living FC AFC Goldens:

FC AFC Glenhaven HTRS MN Baronet FDHF MH OS (Bart), Glenda Brown
FC AFC Emberain Beau Geste OS FDHF (Beau), Judy Rasmuson & Ron Wallace
FC AFC Lacrosse Max Q Jake JH OS FDHF (Jake), Andy Whiteley & John Gassner
FC AFC Steeple Hill Ranger (Ranger), Judy Rasmuson & Ron Wallace
FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Can OTCH TNT's Explosion UD FDHF OS (Boomer), Janice & John Gunn
FC AFC OTCH FTCH AFTCH TNT's Stanley Sreamer UDX WCX MH OBHF FDHF OS (Stanley), Janice & John Gunn
AFC Topbrass Band On The Run (Band) Judy Rasmuson & Ron Wallace

Again, to the best of my knowledge, there are three other living Golden FCs: Bro, Lulu and Breeze, and 4 other AFCs: Snapper, Sunshine, Paws, and Speaker.

The only bitches included are Lulu, Sunshine and Paws.

Several of thes Goldens are getting along in years; I hope they are still all living!

I hope I haven't skipped anyone.


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## Goldenboy (Jun 16, 2004)

Franco said:


> Great choice, I forgot about Jake and hope to see him back doing what he does best soon.
> 
> A dog that has done it in modern times.
> 
> ...


Porjay's Crackerjack Surpriz (Lulu) has her FC and must be close to her AFC.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ok, I can't stand it any longer. 13 pages and Bubba and I have done our best. I'm only human.

These are the greatest goldens of all time.....










/Paul


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## John Gassner (Sep 11, 2003)

Glenda you are right on target when you speak of personal knowledge of the dog. Watching a dog run is better than just seeing a list of the titles it has attained. The more you watch a dog run in different situations the better idea you have as to its consistancy. Some dogs have good days. Some dogs have bad days! 

Have you been "up close and personal" with the dog? Have you judged it? Have you trained it or better yet handled it?

I'll never forget what Torch Flynn said when she saw the "big dog" T-shirt that Mike Castelli had on at I believe the last Oklahoma National Specialty. It had a list of all the FC and/or AFC Goldens (small print-lots of names for you Lab folks). 

She pointed to the names as she read aloud and said something like "yes, yes, no, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, MY HEAVENS NOOOO!"

She was fortunate enough to have seen many of these dogs over the years. Even when she didn't have a dog running, she still keenly observed the dogs. Mrs. Wallace was much the same way.

I also agree that I don't think their is just one "geatest". Too many factors and variables. Kato is obviously one of if not the greatest from Australia. Push and Boomer are a couple from Canada. Quite a few from the US (thank you to those including Jake in this group). 

I'm curious as to the really great ones from Europe?!?!? I know of the big names on pedigrees. Anyone that has been on k9data has seen the names. I want to know which ones really excelled in the field?

Alison it is very nice to see you on this website. Welcome to RTF! I hope to see you and Jim on here in the future and to hear more good things about Kato!


John


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## signgirl (Jun 4, 2006)

I think her name was mentioned earlier but not with anything anectdotal...Tom Glen's Razz. (http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=15227) I know Dan Devos had her till about 18 months and says she was truly amazing, brave and diciplined. I know when she won the Canadian National Amateur, that Tom was close to tears in the last series...she swam in a dreadful wind with white caps washing over her head ....fought the whole way and proved for once and ever how tough and brave she was.

There is also a good write up on her on Jackie's website. http://www.topbrass-retrievers.com/razzl.htm


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Hey Paul:

What a great contribution----would love to have you write up about all the qualities you think make these the "greatest Goldens of all time"----tho I strongly suspect your eyes were more on the figure on the right than those in the middle! Unless I have really misjudged you and you went for the guy in blue! 

I certainly will put this on my list of "possible" articles!

Glenda


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Glenda Brown said:


> Hey Paul:
> 
> What a great contribution----would love to have you write up about all the qualities you think make these the "greatest Goldens of all time"----tho I strongly suspect your eyes were more on the figure on the right than those in the middle! Unless I have really misjudged you and you went for the guy in blue!
> 
> ...


How many goldens can make two humans act so stupid? Riddle me that one batman...

/Paul


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Are the two humans you are referring to you and Bubba??? 

Catwoman sends her regards........you really have read all thirteen pages?????

Glenda


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Glenda Brown said:


> Are the two humans you are referring to you and Bubba???
> 
> Catwoman sends her regards........you really have read all thirteen pages?????
> 
> Glenda


Actually I have read all 13 pages. I've trained a few of the long haired variety in my day. I find the thread to be just like any other "greatest of all time" discussions regardless of sport. I still believe that Magic Johnson was the greatest player of all time.  Jordon and Bird who? Heck if I ask the kid across the street who the greatest golden of all time is he would take me in the backyard and show me his 150 lb golden retriever that spends its life barking through the fence. Too his credit he does climb the ladder and slide down into their pool. The variables and criteria are unique to each person, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Even the greatest dogs have their issues. Find me a pic of Lean Mac in a trial where his ass is actually touching the ground! I posted the picture of the goldens in the circus as a bit of lighthearted humor, but realistically how many FT dogs could perform the tricks those golden’s do? I bet if you ask Mr. tightpants in that picture who has the greatest golden’s you’d get a pretty quick straightforward answer.

Bubba is the penguin, I'm the joker.....



/Paul


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> How many goldens can make two humans act so stupid? Riddle me that one batman...
> 
> /Paul



GAME ON!!!!!

Don't mess with her, /Paul!

4warned is 4armed regards,

JS


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## Klamath Hunting Gold (Nov 12, 2005)

It always disturbs me when Paul forgets who his favorite Oregon Golden female is. It's like he never even saw her run.

Hand


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Ok, I can't stand it any longer. 13 pages and Bubba and I have done our best. I'm only human.
> 
> These are the greatest goldens of all time.....
> 
> ...


Don't get me into this ruckus- I've turned over a whole new leaf. Besides the last thing I need is dozens of angry Fluffy owners chasing me and trying to swat me with their purse.
I got enough trouble with that mob of angry husbands as it is.

You are on your own on this one Pindecko 

Better part of valor egards

Bubba


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## Ausgold (Aug 11, 2009)

Hi John, thank you for the welcome to RTF. Jim and I would love to be able to come over to America to watch one of your competitions, but with a teenager who is coming to the end of her senior years at school and then going to university, it will be a long time before we can afford to travel. 

It is most likely that Kato will be retired following this years National as he is almost 10 and a half years old and the signs of old age are creeping in.

We bred Kato from the last mating of our very first Golden RT Ch Kiamagold Sebastian CDX CM "Bundy" and a bitch from our close friend Helen Pownall from Winterset Kennels. We have now got a young male pup, Winterset Moon River "Maverick" which is from Kato's last mating, again using a bitch of Helen's. If he turns out half as well as Kato we will be pleased. He hopefully will start competing by the end of this year just as Kato retires.

Alison


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## Jim Drager (Jun 12, 2005)

Glenda Brown said:


> Are the two humans you are referring to you and Bubba???
> 
> Catwoman sends her regards........you really have read all thirteen pages?????
> 
> Glenda


Hi Glenda,

Now Glenda, you are better then that. You are truly a consumate lady, and beating up on the intellectually unarmed and emotionally insecure (hey dudes...lighten up...its a Golden Thread...if it bothers you so much, go read the 99% of the other threads), while still feeling good, only serves to...oh what the heck, go ahead and castrate them with their clothes on. 

I remember and cherish the time we judged together back East. I remember the laser welding job you did on a fellow for simimlar transgretions to those of Paul and the cowering Bubba! WoW!

I truly love the this thread as it shows the compassion that is at the core of why most Golden field enthusiasts have the breed they do...its more then just winning and success...its about the breed itself. It shows when so many can recount the great dogs of the past and present with a longing to have seen or see even more of them, and hopeful that history repeats itself.

If you want to see some tangible evidence of the past in the breed, come to the specialty and FT banquet and read the trophies...I get wow'd by the history they represent.

Thanks for all of your contributions to this thread and the FEC and GRNews! Now, just leave the boys a little wounded...have fun.

Jim Drager


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## Bait (Jan 21, 2004)

Glenda Brown said:


> Unless I have really misjudged you and you went for the guy in blue!


Yeah, Jim, I was gonna say that didn't sound like Glenda. But, after that comment, I'm feeling kind of proud of her. You GO sister! See? a couple e-mails back and forth and I've corrupted her too. My work here is complete.
BAIT


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## Jill Simmons (Oct 2, 2008)

Influential goldens:

Topbrass Cotton
Quar
Bro - outstanding producer
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=19261

Not a field style dog- but a grand old gentleman 
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=23473


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Bubba said:


> Don't get me into this ruckus- I've turned over a whole new leaf. Besides the last thing I need is dozens of angry Fluffy owners chasing me and trying to swat me with their purse.
> I got enough trouble with that mob of angry husbands as it is.
> 
> You are on your own on this one Pindecko
> ...


Chicken. Besides you know that they way to keep a golden owner from chasing you is to stand ankle deep in water. You know how they avoid water......

/Paul


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## Larry R. Heil (Aug 18, 2005)

Must Be NAFC-FC Topbrass Cotton.....Do'nt know if this is a true story but was floating around years ago....Someone had a lab bitch and wanted to have it bred. This person asked Mike Lardy who they should breed it to and these people said they wanted to breed to the best marking dog available...he said breed it to Topbrass Cotton. Just sayin'.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Chicken. Besides you know that they way to keep a golden owner from chasing you is to stand ankle deep in water. You know how they avoid water......
> 
> /Paul


It's the dang dogs that avoid water dumbass!

Them owners swim like a fish (pretty much have to doncha know).

Dry land regards

Bubba


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Bubba said:


> It's the dang dogs that avoid water dumbass!
> 
> Them owners swim like a fish (pretty much have to doncha know).
> 
> ...


 
Nah, I don't believe it. Remember that golden owner at St. Louis Ponds a few years ago that gave that 10 step over and slid down the bank into the platform pond? he cussed and swore for 10 minutes trying to get outa there and went on and on about judges insisting dogs get wet and how much he hated water.....


/Paul


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

OK you smart azzes from the great NW! :evil:

Remember this????? What kind a dog is this????? :evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Z_U9QD1KE

Too much time out in the rain regards,

JS


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

JS said:


> OK you smart azzes from the great NW! :evil:
> 
> Remember this????? What kind a dog is this????? :evil:
> 
> ...


No question about it- obviously a Britsih Lab.


Look closely you can see the Wildrose bumper sticker on his butt.


Come back when ya got some regards

Bubba


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## Scott Parker (Mar 19, 2009)

It looks like the dog in that video is half golden and half lab the golden half didn't want to get in the water so the lab half figured out a way to do it with out getting wet.


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## GoldDog (Feb 10, 2009)

Not short enough to be a wildrose. Obviously a slab that forgot his life vest to keep him warm and his floaties to allow him to float. Only the real retrievers come out when it gets nasty.
GoldDog


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

JS said:


> OK you smart azzes from the great NW! :evil:
> 
> Remember this????? What kind a dog is this????? :evil:
> 
> ...


Do you really want to go down this path?


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

Dredging this out of the depths of old threads, an update!

An article on Kato is going to be featured in the Mar/Apr 2010 issue of the GRNews. Photos are ready and the finishing touches are being put on the article written by Alison.

Also, I have spoken to Jerry Patopea and he has promised to write an article on Mo for us. Jane was there when I did this so we know she will make sure he gets it done. He was quite enthusiastic about it as he thinks Mo is the Greatest Golden of All Time!

Have some other articles on outstanding field Goldens lined up and ready to go in future issues of the GRNews.

Thanks for the thread----gave me a lot of good ideas for future articles. If any of you want to write about a Golden you think is really great (or have an article written about), drop me a private note at [email protected]. I am open for suggestions on anything you would like to see written either for or about Goldens to be included in the GRN----just contact me privately.

Glenda


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## labsx3 (Oct 27, 2003)

This will be the greatest golden of all time! Although all I am doing is pup sitting for a week, I can already tell he is a genius


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## stoney (Apr 6, 2004)

Glenda Brown said:


> Dredging this out of the depths of old threads, an update!
> 
> An article on Kato is going to be featured in the Mar/Apr 2010 issue of the GRNews. Photos are ready and the finishing touches are being put on the article written by Alison.
> 
> ...


thats great news Glenda
it is wonderful to see Kato honoured
i have been researching how many dogs in australia have been able to accumulate 200+ points. Only the labs have been able to beat Kato's 240 point hall and so far i have found 12 that i can confirm have 200+
you have to consider that only 8 trials a year carry points for 1st and second and every other trial carrys 6 points for first and nothing for second or third
That gives you a handle on just how great katos acheivement is


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

An even-older thread, DP, and more up your marsh mop alley - but using it as a conduit to lure international sportsman "stoney" Peter Betteridge out of rtf retirement for comment on Ash Barty's sayonara to her sport and the "Golden opportunity" of her getting into Oz retriever field trials for her next challenge since she's already done the Goolagong and googly things to great success. Maybe YBB Glenda also will return to the fray after trading the Reagan Ranch for East Coast ramparts.









No. 1 Ashleigh Barty, Just 25, Retiring From Tennis


The three-time Grand Slam champion said in a social media post, “the time is right now for me to step away and chase other dreams and to put the rackets down.”




www.nytimes.com





MG


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## PatrickM (Apr 28, 2014)

Hello all, I realize this conversation is over 13 years old!
The “best ever” most certainly is a subject of much opinion.
I submit an inarguable truth as contained within the Introduction of Joan Tudor’s book “The Golden Retriever” 1966.
“The true Golden Retriever is one which looks typical and has a temperament which makes it equally suitable for working with the gun and of being the ideal family member. It would be detrimental to the breed were we to concentrate solely on one aspect, and thereby to lose its other qualities. To produce outstanding show specimens, incapable of being taught to work with the gun, is no more desirable than to breed the brilliant gun dog without regard to his looks — A GOLDEN IS NOT TYPICAL OF HIS BREED UNLESS HE LOOKS AND ACTS LIKE ONE!”
Considering the above, unless the argument is further categorized to just Field or Conformation, I have to agree and echo “Stevelow’s” assessment that unless a Golden has attained the extremely rare achievement of Dual Champion, the argument automatically defaults to just the “second bests”. And perhaps why but three Dual Champions (Golden Retrievers) between 1945 -1970 lead the list of ALL Title Holders as listed (Dual Ch. Stubblesdown Golden Lass, Dual Ch. Noranby Destiny, and Dual Ch. and Irish Duel Champion David of Westley.
Oh, yes, …I am an old fellow!


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Some people that trained with him have told me Mo was the best they ever saw.


Pedigree: FC AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo OS FDHF


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Some people that trained with him have told me Mo was the best they ever saw.
> 
> 
> Pedigree: FC AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo OS FDHF


With all due respect to Golden fanciers I have often said that Mighty Mo is a dog anyone (including me) would be proud to own and he would be really good if he was a black dog. I attended to him online at the 1991 Natl Am in Steamboat Springs CO when he collapsed on line after a grueling 5th series land quad at altitude on a warm day.


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## J. Marti (May 2, 2014)

Interesting to see Mighty Mo has some of Henry and Mike Lardy's Handjem breeding. Of course, he has curly-coated retrievers way back in his pedigree, too.


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## jjbuckley (Sep 19, 2019)

drunkenpoacher said:


> Some people that trained with him have told me Mo was the best they ever saw.
> 
> 
> Pedigree: FC AFC Windbreakers Mighty Mo OS FDHF


I bought a male pup out of a Topbrass Cotton breeding years ago. I ran him in hunt tests but he was my hunting dog. Jim Weitzel Sr. helped me train him. Jim thought he should be running field trials. My hunting buddies were always amazed at the ducks and geese he could retrieve. He wasn't Mo but the breeding lines in some of these old Goldens was the best. Over 40 years later I still remember a lot of those retrieves.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

jjbuckley said:


> He wasn't Mo but the breeding lines in some of these old Goldens was the best.


Sadly, the breed is in decline and I don't expect that will change.


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

I thought you were going to say Huck.


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