# Can I Run My Dog?



## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

I go to a Field Trial and run my dog. Pro Trainer A is there, as well as pro trainer B,C,etc. Trainer A's kennel comes down with kennel cough, as does B. I ran the same stakes as they did. My dog showes no sign of the disease but, according to the rules" You cannot run an AKC sponsored event until 30 days after being exposed."


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

First question would be........

What is the defination of "exposed" in this case?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

KG,

Could you give us a clarification of this rule. :wink:


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

*.*

I would say yes.Does it mean you cant run your dog if you take it to the vet because there might have been dogs there.Kennel cough is everywhere I would think(petsmart-dog parks)


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

*.*

good questio though and curious as to what others have to say.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Looks like folks are staying away from this thread like an infectuous disease.

:lol: :lol: 

cough....cough........

:lol: :lol:


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Well Robbie,,,, 

Do what you think is best..... Stay home for 30 days or keep your mouth shut!!!

Angie


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## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

Thankfully Angie this one isn't about my dogs, its a friend of mine's. I was at another Trial.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Kens question regarding exposed is a good one. (Personally I have issues thinking of Ken and exposed.) Since most strains of cough exihibit symptons in 3 to 5 days I would say exposure should would have to be inside a week of attending the same trial. 

/Paul


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

birdhunter61 said:


> Thankfully Angie this one isn't about my dogs, its a friend of mine's. I was at another Trial.


Yayayaya... I got it,,,, "_It's your friends dog_"... Cool.... LOL

Angie


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Kens question regarding exposed is a good one. (Personally I have issues thinking of Ken and exposed.) Since most strains of cough exihibit symptons in 3 to 5 days I would say exposure should would have to be inside a week of attending the same trial.
> 
> /Paul


So is there a distance as to which would validate a dog as "exposed"?

Example............

FC Lucky Louie of Cream Cheeze is running Coastal Bend last week and Lucky Louie comes up with kennel cough.

What happens if FC Bikini Wiennie is in the back of Angie's truck and she drives by FC Lucky Louie of Cream Cheeze's truck?

Does this mean the Bikini can't come out till the end of March? :shock: 

Basically asking.............What is the exact definition of the word "exposed" as in used with any rule of such?

Direct Contact?

10 Foot?

100 Foot?

100 Miles?


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

You have access to the same rule book I do Ken....and you have about two months to become MUCH more familiar with it than you are now! :wink: 

Gonna be a hoot regards,

kg


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

K G said:


> You have access to the same rule book I do Ken....and you have about two months to become MUCH more familiar with it than you are now! :wink:
> 
> Gonna be a hoot regards,
> 
> kg


Ahhhhhhh Haaaaaaaaaaaaa,

I was wondering when you would come public with it. :wink: 

But let's save that for another thread shall we.

I did look up the rule book on this a could not find any such rule.

Do you know of there to be a rule?


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## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

And then if Bikini Wiennie trains with George of the Jungle does that mean he can't run also?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

birdhunter61 said:


> And then if Bikini Wiennie trains with George of the Jungle does that mean he can't run also?


Depends if Bikini Wiennie took a bite of George's banana I guess. :wink:

10 ft?

100 ft?

100 miles?

How far must Bikini Wiennie stay away from the banana is the question.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

> SECTION 9. No dog shall be eligible to compete at
> any field trial, no dog shall be brought into the grounds
> or premises of any field trial, and any dog which may
> have been brought into the grounds or premises of a
> ...


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Gun_Dog2002 said:
> 
> 
> > Kens question regarding exposed is a good one. (Personally I have issues thinking of Ken and exposed.) Since most strains of cough exihibit symptons in 3 to 5 days I would say exposure should would have to be inside a week of attending the same trial.
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennel_cough


Both viral and bacterial causes of kennel cough are spread through the air by infected dogs sneezing and coughing. It can also spread through contact with contaminated surfaces and through direct contact. It is highly contagious. Exposure occurs in environments where there are other dogs in proximity, such as kennels, dog shows, and groomers. Symptoms begin usually 3 to 5 days after exposure.[1] The disease can progress to pneumonia.

/Paul


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

FOM said:


> > SECTION 9. No dog shall be eligible to compete at
> > any field trial, no dog shall be brought into the grounds
> > or premises of any field trial, and any dog which may
> > have been brought into the grounds or premises of a
> > ...


So I guess this means any dog that has been "exposed" to any dog with kennel cough is ineligible to compete within a 30 day time frame?

Correct?


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## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

So does that mean all the dogs at this trial were exposed?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

birdhunter61 said:


> So does that mean all the dogs at this trial were exposed?


What trial?


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Gun_Dog2002 said:
> 
> 
> > Kens question regarding exposed is a good one. (Personally I have issues thinking of Ken and exposed.) Since most strains of cough exihibit symptons in 3 to 5 days I would say exposure should would have to be inside a week of attending the same trial.
> ...


Bikini Weenie will definitely not be exposed til the end of march... So there won't be any problem with any dog riding in the back of my truck!!!

Angie


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## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

Looks like someone found a way to get the numbers down.  
Hey Gut you got any cough drops?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

birdhunter61 said:


> Looks like someone found a way to get the numbers down.


Well I don't know about that. But all the gossip is very interesting.

The only thing I care about is Dozer hacking up a lung. :wink:


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## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

Dozer should be okay, he wasn't at Coastal Bend was he?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

birdhunter61 said:


> Dozer should be okay, he wasn't at Coastal Bend was he?


Nope.................

Was there a known case of a dog infected at Costal Bend?


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## Pete Marcellus (Oct 2, 2003)

Gust a butt wrote:



> Was there a known case of a dog infected at Costal Bend?


Not necessarily infected at the trial, but many dogs that were at the trial came down with it afterwards. I just don't know how long afterwards. Another pro supposedly scratched Coastal Bend because of kennel cough.

Does that mean every dog at Coastal Bend has now been exposed and cannot run for 30 days? 

Then again, some dogs that have it now were at Acadiana the same weekend as Coastal Bend. Were they exposed at Acadiana and then brought it back to TX and infected the other pro's dogs, since they stay in the same kennel? Does this mean all dogs at Acadiana could possibly have been exposed and cannot run for 30 days?

This could turn into a spider web of possible exposure.

Pete


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

> Was there a known case of a dog infected at Costal Bend?


I sure hope the answer is "no"........... 8) ................

Lainee, you are a true student of the sport. Good job!  



> I was wondering when you would come public with it.


With what :lol: ? That you have the same capability as I do of looking up a rule??? Maybe if you're nice Lainee will be your apprentice........ :wink: 



> So I guess this means any dog that has been "exposed" to any dog with kennel cough is ineligible to compete within a 30 day time frame?
> 
> Correct?


Hmmmm....the devil is in the details...... 8) 



> SECTION 9. No dog shall be eligible to compete at any field trial, no dog shall be brought into the grounds or premises of any field trial, and any dog which may have been brought into the grounds or premises of a field trial shall immediately be removed, if it
> (a) shows clinical symptoms of distemper, infectious
> hepatitis, leptospirosis or other communicable disease,


A sick dog or a dog displaying symptoms of these or other communicable diseases.....



> ...or (b) is known to have been in contact with distemper, infectious hepatitis, leptospirosis or other communicable disease within thirty days prior to the opening of the trial,


I believe anyone whose dog fits this category would interpret "contact" as "being in the immediate vicinity of" or "touching" an affected or symptomatic dog. Absent of either of these, most folks would deny any "exposure" because of the wide "net" it could cast to any other dog on the grounds.



> ...or (c) has been kenneled within thirty days prior to the
> opening of the trial on premises on which there existed
> distemper, infectious hepatitis, leptospirosis or other
> communicable disease.


This one would be easier to document, considering that "kenneled" could be on a truck or in an indoor/outdoor facility....but does it mean in the same _kennel_ (run/truck box) or simply at the same _facility_? I believe this is where "exposure" comes into play. Day in, day out proximity would strengthen the case for exclusion here....and to expand upon Pete's point, I believe it is incumbent upon anyone who knows their dog(s) has/have been exposed should keep their dogs at home for whatever reason they choose to make public. Germs don't give a crap who they infect.....and what goes around will come around.

JMHO, as always!

kg


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Wow..........

This could get very interesting. :shock:


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Sounds like it could get VERY interesting.....depending on what people are will to _attest_ to and _own up_ to. My bet? _Nothing_ will come of this.



> Another pro supposedly scratched Coastal Bend because of kennel cough.


As FTS, this is my favorite "last minute excuse," especially from pros....but what are you gonna do? If they send a vet letter, they get a full refund. If they don't, they get whatever refund is allowed by our scratch policy (1/2 the entry fee).

kg


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

K G said:


> Sounds like it could get VERY interesting.....depending on what people are will to _attest_ to and _own up_ to. My bet? _Nothing_ will come of this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


KG,

I would think it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY, in this case, that the particular rumored pro who scratched did not do so with said intentions.

I would give pro's a little more credit than that. :lol:


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

What were the "said intentions?"

And I have NO idea who the "rumored pro" was, but that really doesn't matter to me.

kg


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## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

The intention of one to gain an advantage of many others by his interpretation of the rules is what I see happening. Hopefully good concience will prevail.


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## Gerard Rozas (Jan 7, 2003)

It is obvious that Gutman has only been in the game for 3-4 years.
And that he has never seen a case kennel cough in person.

This is really not that a big deal - pros and ams have dealt with this for years. Yall talk like this is the first time anyone have scratched for this.

NO ONE wants to infect other dogs.

Everyone wants to keep their dogs clean and healthy.

BTW - the last time I dealt with this - it started with taking a dog to a vet for shots (a vet that runs FTs) and there was an infected dog (not a lab) in the clinic.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

There are various strains of kennel cough/bronchitis/parainfluenza/bordetella/adenovirus and as such there are different vaccination possibilities...such as Fort Dodge's adult combination vacc, given subcutaneously, _along with _another vaccine such as the intranasal (given in the nostril) version produced by Schering. 

Kennel cough often sounds like the dog is trying to gag or it may be simply a cough. 

With dogs that will always be coming in contact with other dogs such as in training environments and competitive events, it has always been recommended to vaccinate every six months at a minimum. When kennel cough is not seen for periods of time there is the potential tendency to slack up on those intervals. 

It is possible to have a dog with kennel cough on the same premises as healthy dogs and to isolate him and use proper disinfection techniques and so forth as to not infect the other dogs. The virus is expelled during the cough which makes it airborne into the immediate air as well as whatever it rests upon, re feed pans, water buckets, kennels, etc, even the clothes or body of a person that could unknowingly transmit it further. 

Without treatment most dogs will recover from common kennel cough. Some dogs will not however, and in some cases the cough can progress to pneumonia which may be fatal. 

Any dog with kennel cough should not receive any exercise until his symptoms disappear as any aggravation to the respiratory system will hinder recovery and could indeed make matters worse. 

Canine influenza is another disease, recently seen in greyhounds particularly, and last I knew there is no vaccine for this as yet. 

Other causes for cough may include heartworm positive or cardiac conditions, blastomycosis, valley fever, and histoplasmosis.


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## msdaisey (May 13, 2004)

Gerard Rozas said:


> NO ONE wants to infect other dogs.
> 
> Everyone wants to keep their dogs clean and healthy.
> 
> BTW - the last time I dealt with this - it started with taking a dog to a vet for shots (a vet that runs FTs) and there was an infected dog (not a lab) in the clinic.


Several years ago, there was a handler with two adult dogs with PARVO at a trial. One was rushed to the vet FROM the trial. Everyone knew, but no one said anything, and the handler did NOT care about any else's dogs.

There are, unfortunately, people like that involved in our sport.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Gerard Rozas said:


> It is obvious that Gutman has only been in the game for 3-4 years.


 :lol: :lol: 

You crack me up Rozas.

Sorry I don't fit your bill for social acceptance yet. :lol: :lol:


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

> Several years ago, there was a handler with two adult dogs with PARVO at a trial. One was rushed to the vet FROM the trial. Everyone knew, but no one said anything, and the handler did NOT care about any else's dogs.
> 
> There are, unfortunately, people like that involved in our sport.


That's where the "what goes around comes around" axiom takes effect....

It may take time but it _does_ happen regards,:wink: 

kg


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## Arturo (Jan 10, 2004)

birdhunter61 said:


> ... Pro Trainer A is there, as well as pro trainer B,C,etc. Trainer A's kennel comes down with kennel cough, as does B. *I ran the same stakes as they did* ....."


That's impossible. You couldn't have ran the same stakes as Pro's A and B. Their dogs had Kennel Cough and would have been barred from competition! :lol: :lol: :lol: I don't understand! :wink: 

Colorado "Showtyme" regards,
Arturo


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## birdhunter61 (Aug 8, 2004)

Art, I was at a different trial anyway. The pros dogs came down with it after the trial. I posted this for a friend who was at the trial in question.


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## Pete Marcellus (Oct 2, 2003)

GR wrote:



> This is really not that a big deal - pros and ams have dealt with this for years. Yall talk like this is the first time anyone have scratched for this.


I'll bet it's a pretty big deal to the pro who scratched from Coastal Bend who then heads to Shreveport only to be told that he will be protested because his dogs were infected within the last 30 days.

This thread is not about scratching when one has sick dogs, it is about whether or not someone can run their dog when they have been to a trial where other dogs were running who got sick shortly afterwards. The question is, was his dog exposed to an infectious disease and not able to run in the next 30 days, as the rule states.

Pete


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Who were the Pros, and more importantly who was on the FT Committees at the trials where the Pros brought the exposed dogs to and there by violated the RULES :?: 

Name names, it's that important!

john


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

> This thread is not about scratching when one has sick dogs, it is about whether or not someone can run their dog when they have been to a trial where other dogs were running who got sick shortly afterwards. The question is, was his dog exposed to an infectious disease and not able to run in the next 30 days, as the rule states.


This is where a BS scratch excuse can become a major problem. Can the source of kennel cough be traced? I doubt it.

Sounds like someone is going to have to admit to BSing about their scratch excuse at a previous trial or potentially face a protest for running ineligible dogs.

The plot thickens regards,

kg


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

K G said:


> > This thread is not about scratching when one has sick dogs, it is about whether or not someone can run their dog when they have been to a trial where other dogs were running who got sick shortly afterwards. The question is, was his dog exposed to an infectious disease and not able to run in the next 30 days, as the rule states.
> 
> 
> This is where a BS scratch excuse can become a major problem. Can the source of kennel cough be traced? I doubt it.
> ...


KG,

Trust me..............a pro did scratch due to kennel cough. Or a least that seems to be the accepted scratch reason. 

What happened next is, many other kennels in the area have now contracted kennel cough as well. 

The pro that scratched due to kennel cough 2 weeks ago is running a trial this weekend. It was said, that prior to the trial, the FTC and the pro had dialogue on whether or not he would be permitted to run his dogs.

I believe this story as I've laid it out. But I also cannot hold fact to any of it due to the fact I was not at any trial nor kennel to experience any of this first hand.

But I can say my information sources are very respectible. :wink: 




The only thing that I would like to finally figure out is.......................

Due to the rule that FOM posted...............

I interpret that as any dog that HAS/HAD kennel cough or..........

Any dog that was exposed to kennel cough.................

Then these dogs are deemed to be ILLEGAL for competition at a trial for 30 DAYS?

Am I interpreting this correctly according to the rules?


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Thanks for the info, Ken. I would deem your sources reliable! :wink: And they might be respectable as well! :lol: 

Based on the info provided and the rule as read, I would agree with your interpretation of the rule. That said, SOMEBODY is going to have to take action and pursue enforcement of this rule on ANY of the dogs that were scratched last weekend due to kennel cough that are running a trial this weekend.

However..... 8) .............................

If the "affected" dogs did NOT run a trial prior to the one in which they scratched, then the pro that scratched the dogs could reasonably say that the 30-day "quarantine" period had expired between the Coastal Bend and the Shreveport dates, thus rendering the dogs eligible to compete. End of story....that is, unless someone wants to come in and hang the pro out to dry with contradictory testimony.....but I don't see that happening, not in this situation anyway.

kg


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

K G said:


> Thanks for the info, Ken. I would deem your sources reliable! :wink: And they might be respectable as well! :lol:
> 
> Based on the info provided and the rule as read, I would agree with your interpretation of the rule. That said, SOMEBODY is going to have to take action and pursue enforcement of this rule on ANY of the dogs that were scratched last weekend due to kennel cough that are running a trial this weekend.
> 
> ...


Yep, I agree with you. :shock: 

Ain't nothing gonna happen in this particular case........

But I wouldn't be surprised about NEXT WEEKEND!!!! :shock: :shock: :wink:


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

As you once said (or words to this effect): As the field trial (world) turns...

Less than two months regards, :wink: 

kg


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

Kennel cough, whether viral or bacterial (bordetella is bacterial, I believe) has normally anywhere from a 2-14 day incubation period, although 3-5 or 10 days is generally most common...the worst of the disease may pass in 5 days or so but can linger for 10-20 days.

All that being said, suppose the pro was not BSing but suppose he only had 1 or 2 dogs with the problem and he isolated them effectively from his other dogs. 

His other dogs have no symptoms and have not been exposed. 

Shouldn't he be able to run the trial? Who determines exposure?


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Vickie Lamb said:


> All that being said, suppose the pro was not BSing but suppose he only had 1 or 2 dogs with the problem and he isolated them effectively from his other dogs.
> 
> His other dogs have no symptoms and have not been exposed.
> 
> Shouldn't he be able to run the trial? Who determines exposure?


Absolutely.....

But in my opinion two things must be defined........

1. The definition of exposed. (As I've mentioned previously on this thread)

2. The definition or acceptable practice of isolation of infectuous diseases.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> Ain't nothing gonna happen in this particular case........:


Unless one of the alleged to have been exposed dogs places at which point the sanctimonius upholders of the rules will forthwith immediately file a protest against said dog...........it's sad that some in our sport have sunk so low as to attempt to control competition through manipulation of 50 year old verbage that is not even applicable today. The fact that the 3 diseases mentioned in the rule are all but non-existent in vaccinated dogs and the 2 possible offending diseases (Infectious Tracheobronchitis and Parvo Virus) are not mentioned proves just how antiquated the language in Chapter 8 Section 9 is.

With that in mind I have suggested and will pursue a revision of that rule to read, 

"No dog that displays symptoms of contagious disease shall be eligible to compete in field trial without certification from a licensed veterinarian that such dog is NOT infected with a contagious disease"


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

EdA said:


> Ken Guthrie said:
> 
> 
> > Ain't nothing gonna happen in this particular case........:
> ...


That a boy Ed. :wink: 

I guess in that rule being accepted, it would definately help a pro to have a good relationship with a vet.
 

Maybe we can start a new thread............

"Pro & Vet Relationships" :wink: 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

..it also takes a few days for the kennel cough vaccine to be effective once given. We had personal experience with that..caring for a dog in our home for several weeks. 

A long-time, dear friend died (older gentleman that was like family) ..we wanted to attend the visiting and funeral.. but could not leave this dog free in our house..

A good friend has a wonderful very small kennel..so called her. As I was about to take the dog there for an afternoon and overnite...she called me..."was he up to date on his kennel cough?" ....I looked at his vet papers..had not even given it a thought....and come to find out he was not. She said that since she had others in, could not take him. ...I called my vet to double check and it was true so did not bother to contact anyone else. 

Always had my dog's vaccine due to classes, group training etc ..and just in case something happened we could kennel if we had to...but had not thought of vaccine given "last minute"...


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Judy Chute said:


> ..it also takes a few days for the kennel cough vaccine to be effective once given. We had personal experience with that..caring for a dog in our home for several weeks.
> 
> A long-time, dear friend died (older gentleman that was like family) ..we wanted to attend the visiting and funeral.. but could not leave this dog free in our house..
> 
> ...


Let's remember in this case.............

A preventitive shot may be as effective as a flu shot. Ain't sure though. Maybe a vet could inform us. :wink: 
:roll: 

My old lady gets a flu shot every year.............and still gets the flu. :lol:


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Start with the rule:



> SECTION 9. No dog shall be eligible to compete at any field trial, no dog shall be brought into the grounds or premises of any field trial, and any dog which may have been brought into the grounds or premises of a field trial shall immediately be removed, if it (a) shows clinical symptoms of distemper, infectious hepatitis, leptospirosis or other communicable disease, or (b) is known to have been in contact with distemper, infectious hepatitis, leptospirosis or other communicable disease within thirty days prior to the opening of the trial, or (c) has been kenneled within thirty days prior to the opening of the trial on premises on which there existed distemper, infectious hepatitis, leptospirosis or other communicable disease.


The key terms are:

1.	Communicable disease
2.	In contact with
3.	On premises on where there existed

The first issue is whether kennel cough is a “communicable disease.” I have spoken with several veterinarians and I have found no consensus about whether kennel cough is a “communicable disease.” There is, however, a consensus that kennel cough is nowhere as severe as “distemper, infectious hepatitis, or leptospirosis.”

The second issue is what constitutes “in contact with.” For example, suppose a dog with kennel cough runs the first series of a 100 dog Open in FT A. For purposes of discussion, imagine that the dog is the first dog to run the Open. Do we consider all 99 other dogs in the Open that sat on the mat where the dog with kennel cough sat to be “in contact with” a communicable disease? 

If so, that means that all 100 dogs in FT A are now banned from competition for 30 days.

In fact, you could argue that the Open should have been cancelled as all 100 dogs in the Open had been in contact with the kennel cough and all 100 were required to be removed from the FT Grounds.

The third issue is what constitutes “existed” and “premises.” Suppose that on Day 1, Dog X develops kennel cough at Pro 1's facility and Pro 1 immediately quarantines Dog X at a separate building. Are all of Pro 1's dogs banned from competition for 30 days?

The phrase “on premises where there existed” is non-specific as to duration of the disease. Is the duration 30 days? Less than 30 days? More than 30 days?


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## Arturo (Jan 10, 2004)

One pro protesting against another pro shouldn't be a problem. They are all professionals. 

Maybe SRS is getting ready to start calling people on the standby list! :twisted: 

Cough cough regards,
Arturo


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Kennel cough is around every year usually spring and fall. The vaccination will not prevent every form of kennel cough just like the flu vaccine doesn't prevent every form of flu. You risk your dog contracting kennel cough by going to any dog event. It is impossible to prevent it from happening. A pro may bring a truck of no one coughing to an event and a dog may jump out of a truck and cough. It happens. It has happened to me. The dog was scratched. Very often only one or two dogs on the truck get it. If your dog is with a pro a dog can come in for training with kennel cough. Therefore, if you attend dog events with multiple dogs you have to realize there is a risk of contracting kennel cough.


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## BBnumber1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Vickie Lamb said:


> All that being said, suppose the pro was not BSing but suppose he only had 1 or 2 dogs with the problem and he isolated them effectively from his other dogs.
> 
> His other dogs have no symptoms and have not been exposed.
> 
> Shouldn't he be able to run the trial? Who determines exposure?


Wouldn't the other dogs already have been exposed by the time the person realizes the 2 dogs have been infected?

Isolating them just eliminates further exposure, unless the disease was recognized as the dogs arrived at the facility and were taken directly to a seperate kenneling area.


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## Vickie Lamb (Jan 6, 2003)

BBnumber1 said:


> Wouldn't the other dogs already have been exposed by the time the person realizes the 2 dogs have been infected?


Not summarily and not necessarily. There would be a number of factors involved. 



ErinsEdge said:


> The vaccination will not prevent every form of kennel cough just like the flu vaccine doesn't prevent every form of flu. You risk your dog contracting kennel cough by going to any dog event. It is impossible to prevent it from happening


However, using a subcutaneous vacc that has parainfluenza, adeno-1 and 2, etc *and *an intranasal bordetella vacc will drastically cut the odds of contracting a respiratory ailment, particularly when done every six months or so.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

I think in considering this issue and determining whether you view to kennel cough to be a "communicable disease" that 

kennel cough for a dog is akin to the common cold for a human; and
distemper for a dog is akin to cholera for a human.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> The first issue is whether kennel cough is a “communicable disease.”


make no mistake Canine Infectious Tracheobronchitis is a "communicable" disease it is also an infectious and a contagious disease

The following definitions of the various terms are from Dorland's Medical Dictionary

"communicable disease" - a disease the causative agents of which may pass or be carried from one person to another directly or indirectly.

"contagious disease" n. - see communicable disease. 

"contagious" - capable of being transmitted from one individual to another, as a contagious disease; communicable.

SECTION 9. No dog shall be eligible to compete at 
any field trial, no dog shall be brought into the grounds 
or premises of any field trial, and any dog which may 
have been brought into the grounds or premises of a 
field trial shall immediately be removed, if it 
(a) shows clinical symptoms of distemper, infectious 
hepatitis, leptospirosis or other communicable disease, or 
(b) is known to have been in contact with distemper, 
infectious hepatitis, leptospirosis or other communicable 
disease within thirty days prior to the opening of 
the trial, or 
(c) has been kenneled within thirty days prior to the 
opening of the trial on premises on which there existed 
distemper, infectious hepatitis, leptospirosis or other 
communicable disease.

Nevertheless the rule contains ambiguous terms subject to individual interpretation, and in the world of canine disease this one (kennel cough) is MINOR, producing an aggravating but not life threatening upper respiratory infection. 

This entire matter is "a tempest in a teapot" because of a largely ignored rule which has no basis in current veterinary medical knowledge. Those attempting to use this rule to a competitive advantage are violating the spirit of the rules and the common bond of this relatively small group of people who compete in retriever field trials. I find the manipulation of the rules to try and gain some competitive advantage to be totally repugnant. :x :x

and BTW the incubation period for Canine Infectious Tracheobronchitis is 5 to 9 days which make a 30 day time interval absurd


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

As with all of these obsolete often ignored rules, I say... if they are indeed _Dinosaurs_, remove them from the book.

Is it too much to ask to have a set of rules that say what they mean and mean what they say :shock: 

john


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

EdA said:


> This entire matter is "a tempest in a teapot" because of a largely ignored rule which has no basis in current veterinary medical knowledge. Those attempting to use this rule to a competitive advantage are violating the spirit of the rules and the common bond of this relatively small group of people who compete in retriever field trials. I find the manipulation of the rules to try and gain some competitive advantage to be totally repugnant. :x :x


I agree. Hopefully integrity will prevail.


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

I know one thing for sure :!: 

If I were the one to have committed this infraction, I there would have been no doubt, *the Rule would have been enforced*.

With that said...
I very seldom pay attention to Ted's analogies, they are normally skewed too much to support his causes, but after Goggling Kennel Cough, his Common Cold analogy in pretty much right on target.

Now with that said....
*SO what*, the Rules are the Rules!!!!
Who among us has the right to pick and chose, Cherry Pick if you will, what Rules should be followed and which should not.
The Eligibility to run a Restricted is a prime example :lol: :wink:

I for example don't think much of the Derby handling rule, or the"no"confusion on a blind rule , or the no entry after the close rule .or the way the honoring or the avoiding water rules can be abused etc etc.
Does that give me the right to *ignore* them or *enhance* them? I don't think so!!!

Follow them or change them regards
john


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## Noah (Apr 6, 2003)

Ted Shih said:


> The second issue is what constitutes “in contact with.” For example, suppose a dog with kennel cough runs the first series of a 100 dog Open in FT A. For purposes of discussion, imagine that the dog is the first dog to run the Open. Do we consider all 99 other dogs in the Open that sat on the mat where the dog with kennel cough sat to be “in contact with” a communicable disease?


Epidemiologically, unless each dog had it's own ducks/pheasants throughout the trial, you would have to consider all dogs exposed that ran in the same flight/stake with a dog shedding the virus/bacteria.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

john fallon said:


> I for example don't think much of the Derby handling rule, or the"no"confusion on a blind rule john


These are rules relating to competition and have been dealt with in the recent past (whether you agree or disagree with them). 

The "exposure to communicable disease rule" relates to eligibility to compete and is intact as it was originally written. 

I agree that rules should not be ignored but this one is vague and unenforceable. I hope the RAC will see fit to revise it per my suggestions.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

john fallon said:


> If I were the one to have committed this infraction, I there would have been no doubt, *the Rule would have been enforced*.


Sadly John, whether it was you, me, Ted, Ken, or anyone else the self appointed rule enforcers would only care if any of us placed :shock: their motivation is not about protecting their dog from a relatively mild upper respiratory infection


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