# Bitch not standing/flagging on day 15



## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

Local folks using my stud, great pedigree bitch with great health clearances. 

Went over to meet & greet on day 7. The dogs sniffed around, said hey. Swung by on day 9, just because its local. Sniffed and peed. 

Day 11 - she came here & he seemed interested but nothing

Day 13 - same as 11

Day 15 (today) - same

Proven stud, never delays in doing his business. Owners of botch keep her inside, they noticed blood right off the bat two Thursdays ago.

Anyone seen this happen? I've never had a female go this long without being ready.


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## weathered (Mar 17, 2011)

Yep, did Progesterone tests and my girl ovulated day 18, bred day 21, litter of 7. Repro vet called it "stalling."


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Maybe she's waiting to see if someone else comes along so that she can have some choice in the matter ! 

On a serious note, I had a bitch that wouldn't stand for the outside stud that I wanted to breed her to, but she made a beeline for her "boy toy" in the kennel building at home as soon as the car door opened, pushing her privates in his face and acting like a real hussy! We finally ended up doing a side by side AI breeding.


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## jecartag (Feb 25, 2011)

Progesterone timing


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## Nicole (Jul 8, 2007)

Yep could be completely normal for her. If the breeding is important, pull an progesterone and be ready to AI if necessary.


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Progesterone. They are all different, almost every time. My current girl was ready at day 7. Her mother on day 17.

Sue Puff


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

Agree with those that suggest the female's owner get her progesterone-tested and you should make it a requirement of your stud dog contract. Saves a lot of time and wasted energy. While the assumption that females are ready during the middle week (days 8-15) has worked well enough and long enough people still use it, bitches can and do vary widely in when they're ready to be bred. I've known of ones ready as early as day 4 and as late as day 22. If you have a decent local vet who's familiar with reproduction (instead of the kind that doles out the spay/neuter H$U$ lectures) you can alert them in case you need to do a side by side AI. A bonus for the bitch owner in getting the progesterone tests is you can pinpoint the due date for the pups with greater accuracy. It really is worthwhile, even for a local breeding.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

Sometimes the bitch just doesn't like the male and won't stand. Hopefully you haven't missed her--if you haven't been doing vaginal smears, you have no way of knowing if/how she is progressing.

Progesterone test will let you know if you missed her window, or if she is just a late ovulator.

Meredith


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

I got an eye-opener the last breeding I did. We had tried with the same stud on a previous heat--I wasn't there but my husband and the stud owner said she "wouldn't stand." We had progesterones pinpointing the time--according to the numbers, she was ready.

This time John said "no high tech stuff." She was flagging but wouldn't stand for the dog. After a couple of days I called my friend who does a LOT of breeding (owns a whole bunch of CH stud dogs). Went into a little room in her kennel. She got me to back my bitch up against a wall in a corner, brought the stud around behind, and while I held the bitch's head, she got them tied within about a minute. Repeated the next day; equally easy. 6 Puppies on day 62.

I think in this case the bitch just doesn't stand very well. Low-tech help was effective!

Amy Dahl


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

No vet in town can test. They all have to ship it to their "lab". He is very interested in her, follows her around the yard nudging & sniffing. She doesn't fight him off, but she doesn't stand still.

He's not one to waste time. Last breeding we out the bitch in the yard & by the time I walked in the house & looked out the window they were tied.

I'm hoping she's just a late bloomer. We're on day 16 now. She's spent enough time w/ my stud to be good buddies by now!


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

Last year we had a female in to be bred and she was bred on day 26 or 27. My male was interested in her for 2 weeks before he even tried to mount. Finally on day 26 or 27 we got a tie. 2 days later he wanted nothing to do with her. I wasn't to sure they would have puppies but she ended up whelping 12 healthy pups!


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## Marilyn Fender (Sep 3, 2005)

Had to smile at this post above. Back when I was doing natural breeding with Rascal, a breeder told me that she was not going to breed until 27th day. I thought she was crazy but told her she could wait to drive the 100 miles here if she wanted. She arrived in her van with her female . The tie was quick, easy and long. The result was 10 healthy pups. The owner had bred her before and know what would happen. Yes, this is highly unusual. But with the post by Mike Peters and this story ---- it just shows that we can't second guess nature accurately all the time. I still always would test for readiness but need to trust the two dogs involved also when it is a natural breeding..


Marilyn

Marilyn J Fender, PhD
Windstorm Retrievers - Wisconsin and Georgia
Home of 1996 NFC FC AFC Storm’s Riptide Star and birthplace of his son 2000 CNAFC CFC CAFC Quik Windstorm 
[email protected]


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## Mark L (Mar 22, 2010)

Put them in a small room or area together so they can't get too far away from each other. I know it was the opposite with Payton, she was ready but he wanted to play. After 3 days of playing we put them in a smaller dog run and they were tied up in less than 5 minutes.

Good Luck


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Bartona500 said:


> No vet in town can test. They all have to ship it to their "lab".


That's normal for most of us. I have blood drawn as late as possible in the day, then it's shipped to W. WA. Results are faxed by the next morning to the clinic. Not sure what the problem is??? A good reliable progesterone test which yields numbers requires good equipment. Perhaps you could in the future ask your vet to buy some of the colorimetric test strips but you'd still have to do a blood draw, centrifuge/spin the blood down and test for an approximate range. Since the test strips have expiration dates, many vet clinics aren't too interested in carrying them.


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

Or see if your vet can contract with your local large hospital, they can run the test for you as well.


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

Mark L said:


> Put them in a small room or area together so they can't get too far away from each other. I know it was the opposite with Payton, she was ready but he wanted to play. After 3 days of playing we put them in a smaller dog run and they were tied up in less than 5 minutes.
> 
> Good Luck


I would never do this with my stud or one of my females. I hold on to the female to limit the chances of either dog getting injured. With an experienced stud you really should not have to pen them up together to get a tie.


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## Richard (Jul 29, 2010)

I have a bitch that hates Sex, so I have to AI every time. start AI and hope she will stand in between.
Cheers,
Richard


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

If your stud dog is an experienced stud I would trust him. My dog Maxx sometimes would just ignore a female and go lay down and go to sleep. My younger males would be pacing, whining and slobbering and being just plain stupid. When the female was right game on with Maxx. I thought I had missed a breeding when Maxx kept ignoring the female for 28 days then game on and 11 healthy pups.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

He tried to mount her tonight and she snapped at him. First time I've seen him really try, though.


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## Cedarswamp (Apr 29, 2008)

Agreed on the progesterone testing. Like mentioned above, have the vet use a lab that gets them the results back overnight. Since we are both able to draw blood, our vet orders the "instant" progesterone testing for us. She said she doesn't trust it's accuracy, but since we're usually doing live cover, we can use it in conjunction with what the dogs behavior indicate. 

Last breeding I did without progesterone testing, bred by live cover day 12 & 14, resulted in one puppy born by c-section 67 days from the first breeding (Oct 12 first breeding, born Dec 18). She had been bred by live cover previously on days 14 & 16 resulting in litters of 9 & 10. We were WAY too early breeding on the last pregnancy.

We've done two breedings this year using the "at home" kit, first one was "double checked" by the vet using slides, with litters of 7 and 9 on the two litters. The first litter, the bitch was not "ready" until day 15 (both the slide and dog confirmed she wasn't ready on the Saturday before the breeding that was day 14). Her first litter that was born 2.5 years prior she was ready in the "typical days. Had I tried on the "normal day 10-14" and quit trying, we would have missed that breeding. We also would have "wasted" money in travel since we would have been waiting for her to "get ready". The second bitch was "ready" on day 12.

The progesterone testing has made it a lot easier for knowing "when" as well as a time and money saver due to us using outside studs...


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

My dog now, is the result of a day 17 mating..... Same thing was happening. The bitch came, first couple days there was a little interest, then a couple days not much, was begining to think we missed it, then afternoon of day seventeen they were tied before I could get back to the house.....


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

Day 18. Just out them together. He's following her all over the yard with his head on her ribs, occasionally humping the air. She won't stop pacing. Been doing this for 3 days, she just keeps walking. If he tries to mount she walks faster or snaps (yesterday).

I tried holding her, but he wasn't interested in that process.


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## Cedarswamp (Apr 29, 2008)

There are some bitches that WILL NOT stand...that's another reason to do the progesterone...if she absolutely won't and is ready, side-by-side AI may be the way you have to go. One of the males I used this year was out of a bitch that was thia way...the repeat breeding was the same, pretty sure it was the same story with her first breeding to a different sire.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

Bartona500 said:


> Day 18. Just out them together. He's following her all over the yard with his head on her ribs, occasionally humping the air. She won't stop pacing. Been doing this for 3 days, she just keeps walking. If he tries to mount she walks faster or snaps (yesterday).
> 
> I tried holding her, but he wasn't interested in that process.


Your job as a stud owner is to get that girl pregnant. Talking about it here doesnt seem to be getting the job done... get her to a vet to at least do a side by side! 
You can decide who owes for what later, but I think it's silly to not require the bitch owner to do progesterone if you are guaranteeing any minimum # of puppies.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

They're all closed today. Do most vets do side by side AI?? I use Mississippi State for surgical, but I can't get her down there in time.


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## windycanyon (Dec 21, 2007)

This may end up being a learning experience but I'd be on the horn first thing in the am to your vet and hope he/she can do it. I have a couple around here who I can rely on to get the job done since I do a fair % of chilled semen breedings, but no, not all vets are considered equal when it comes to breeding expertise.


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## Nicole (Jul 8, 2007)

As a stud dog owner, doing a side by side AI is something you should be prepared to do. Do you have any have any breeder friends nearby that can help you?


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## wakemup (Dec 29, 2012)

I have a litter of eleven out of a bitch that stood and was bred on day 20.


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

wakemup said:


> I have a litter of eleven out of a bitch that stood and was bred on day 20.


What did she act like w/ the stud for the week leading up to day 20?


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## Bartona500 (May 23, 2011)

At vet to do AI. It's day 20. He's more interested in her than ever, she just won't stand! I really hope we aren't too late. Long weekend killed us!


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