# srs.



## Anthony Petrozza (Jan 4, 2005)

Im watching the SRS on TV and can't believe how bad the dog work is!!!! It is a field trial set up that looks like a qual type test with very little factors and low cover. And the dogs have very little style and enthusiam.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

I can't believe Wile E Coyote hasn't caught the roadrunner yet.

/Paul


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## simmons.retriever (May 5, 2008)

> Im watching the SRS on TV and can't believe how bad the dog work is!!!! It is a field trial set up that looks like a qual type test with very little factors and low cover. And the dogs have very little style and enthusiam.


Maybe you should enter and show them how its done.


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

what channels it on?? i have direct tv.... anyone know?


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## Anthony Petrozza (Jan 4, 2005)

My four month old is not ready yet, maybe next year It's not a hate thread, so dont take it like that. Just very surprised. I would like to see more style!!!


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Rubber ducks don’t add anything to style


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

badbullgator said:


> Rubber ducks don’t add anything to style





True...but what about the guys use rubber blow up dolls?



At the end of the day if everyone is satisfied with the outcome... what is the difference? It is all just entertainment. 



In all fairness...SRS is a game and there really is some nice dogs that run it...and some bad ones....just like FT and HT.


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> True...but what about the guys use rubber blow up dolls?
> 
> 
> 
> At the end of the day if everyone is satisfied with the outcome... what is the difference? It is all just entertainment.


thats just wrong.. still funny!


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## Ed Bahr (Jul 1, 2007)

lillusk3 said:


> what channels it on?? i have direct tv.... anyone know?


Channel 603 on Direct TV VS


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Be it bumper or bird, a dog is either stylish or it is not.
I see no reason why this should not hold true for any retrieved article .

All this other BS is just that.

john


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

john fallon said:


> Be it bumper or bird, a dog is either stylish or it is not.
> I see no reason why this should not hold true for any retrieved article .
> 
> All this other BS is just that.
> ...


I tend to agree, rubber ducks, real ducks or tennis balls an eager retriever should go after all with enthusiasim.


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## Paul-TEXAS (Jan 7, 2003)

GOOOOOD Morning John!!!!!!!!!!!

Paul-TEXAS


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## cgoeson (Jan 22, 2008)

lillusk3 said:


> what channels it on?? i have direct tv.... anyone know?


VS (versus)


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## Anthony Petrozza (Jan 4, 2005)

john fallon said:


> Be it bumper or bird, a dog is either stylish or it is not.
> I see no reason why this should not hold true for any retrieved article .
> 
> All this other BS is just that.
> ...


Totally agree. The dogs this morning looked like they were gonna fall over on the line. You should of seen this one dog run a blind!! sssssssssslllllloooooowwwwwwww......


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## Brad Slaybaugh (May 17, 2005)

I watched one a couple weeks ago.. I was surprised at how quickly they handled the dogs on marks. If the dog got close they whistled and put the dog on it, no hunt at all. Not saying it's bad, just made me think as long as the dog goes in the general direction and runs til the whistle blows, he's home.

Brad


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## Steve Hester (Apr 14, 2005)

Dukdawg said:


> I watched one a couple weeks ago.. I was surprised at how quickly they handled the dogs on marks. If the dog got close they whistled and put the dog on it, no hunt at all. Not saying it's bad, just made me think as long as the dog goes in the general direction and runs til the whistle blows, he's home.
> 
> Brad


That's because you don't understand the rules. The quicker they get the dog on the bird, within reason, the better the score.


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## wesley hamm (Feb 20, 2004)

why start this thread? really what is to be gained by it?

love to see someone answer those questions 

seen slower dogs win FT's regards,

wesley


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

Anthony Petrozza said:


> Im watching the SRS on TV and can't believe how bad the dog work is!!!! It is a field trial set up that looks like a qual type test with very little factors and low cover. And the dogs have very little style and enthusiam.


hmmm Interesting


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## Brad Slaybaugh (May 17, 2005)

Steve Hester said:


> That's because you don't understand the rules. The quicker they get the dog on the bird, within reason, the better the score.


I understand it's a point system, and wasn't trying to knock the event or the rules, I'm just stuck in the "marking is of primary importance" mindset. 

All the events are good for the dogs!!!

don't understand the rules regards
Brad


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## ghak99 (Jun 1, 2007)

This arm chair quarterback also expected a few dogs to stomp the test after seeing the set up. I thought this particular show was crazy boring and I normally really like watching the SRS shows..........well the actual field dog work that is. For me the dock dog stuff is like watching paint dry. 

I'd like to attend one just to see it in person. If today's show was what made it to air after the editing room, how good/bad was the rest of the dog work? 

Be it Hunt Tests, Field Trials, or SRS......Good marking, good handling, and a stylish dog keeps my attention. Poor marking, bad handling, and slow dogs put me to sleep.


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## Jay Hinton (Feb 28, 2005)

I can add some persepective to this discussion, nothing more or nothing less. I train daily on the same grounds, so I know them pretty well. The things that did not make it to TV were the factors involved in each mark that did not make any mark a "gimme" (weather, lay of land, wind direction, etc) especially the weather, which was cool and gray making each mark difficult to see. They were also moderately long marks, and the cover was dense, knee-high wheat, which is effective in masking the scent of what is for all intensive purposes a bumper. The wind was not blowing much at all, and what was blowing was out of the North-east, which in that particular spot produces currents that swirl and are inconsistent. 

I have seen many dogs struggle in better conditions in that same area, on shorter marks and including dogs that are competitive in Open and Amateur stakes. 

It is next to impossible to convey the degree of difficulty of many things on TV and a set of worthy All-Age marks is one of them.


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Dukdawg said:


> I watched one a couple weeks ago.. I* was surprised at how quickly they handled the dogs on marks. If the dog got close they whistled and put the dog on it*, no hunt at all. Not saying it's bad, just made me think as long as the dog goes in the general direction and runs til the whistle blows, he's home.
> 
> Brad


I've watched a couple of them and I'll be the first to admit I don't know the rules. But I sure wonder why anyone would do that to an otherwise good dog.

Just my observation ... not trying to stir the pot.

To each his own regards.

JS


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## pafromga (Jul 16, 2006)

JS said:


> I've watched a couple of them and I'll be the first to admit I don't know the rules. But I sure wonder why anyone would do that to an otherwise good dog.
> 
> Just my observation ... not trying to stir the pot.
> 
> ...


where is the popcorn icon???


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

JS said:


> * Just my observation ... not trying to stir the pot.
> 
> To each his own regards.*



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## FowlDawgs (Oct 22, 2007)

Not every SRS event is going to be edge of your seat exciting. Not all football games are exciting. Every sport has it's off days.

Enjoying the dog games regards!!

Cory


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

I've always enjoyed watching the televised SRS. Been lucky enough to be a spectator at one. I also enjoy all the hunting shows that envolve dogs, waterdog, and even watch the "sporting dog class" at the two televised dog shows. I've been to two field trials(as a spectator) and enjoyed the dog work. Why is it that I can't ever find a field trial on TV. Every Sat and Sun morning the outdoor channels are full of shows with retrievers, pointers, agility dogs. Where and why aren't there any weekly shows featuring these field trials. Another question back to the SRS. Aren't most of these dogs either FT dogs or dogs that were produced by them?


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## Brad Slaybaugh (May 17, 2005)

Greg E said:


> Why is it that I can't ever find a field trial on TV. Every Sat and Sun morning the outdoor channels are full of shows with retrievers, pointers, agility dogs. Where and why aren't there any weekly shows featuring these field trials.


I imagine it has to do with the flyer participation!!!!


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## BrettG (Apr 4, 2005)

This set up was a lot more difficult than it appeared on TV. I too thought one of them should have hammered the set up. What you couldn't tell on TV was the wheat was knee deep and all the factors pushed the dogs off line and away from the marks. The swing from bird one to bird 3 was huge. I thought the judges did a great job with bird placement as they did in the semi's as well. 

The white coat type scenario for the finals doesn't make for as much excitement on TV. Most finals are the real shoot 'em up hunting type scenarios.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Does anyone think that maybe the handling on a mark hampers style? My guess it does.......

FOM


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

Greg E said:


> Why is it that I can't ever find a field trial on TV. Every Sat and Sun morning the outdoor channels are full of shows with retrievers, pointers, agility dogs. Where and why aren't there any weekly shows featuring these field trials.


PLEASE let them never add camera placement to bird, sun, wind, gallery, traffic, and parking placement to judge's set up day.

The SRS is a different game not inferior not superior. In SRS control is the most important not marking. Control is something the casual TV audience can understand, the area of a fall is not. 

Tim


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Well said, Tim.

kg


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## Lyle Harne (Jul 7, 2004)

Jay Hinton said:


> It is next to impossible to convey the degree of difficulty of many things on TV and a set of worthy All-Age marks is one of them.


Isn't that the job of the commentators. Also, different venues; played differently. Calling them "worthy all age marks" is a misnomer.


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

I did not see the televised show yesterday. The event I saw live was in Tx. You couldn't get the full picture on TV. It was the wind that caused havoc on the dogs. Some of the test did not look extremely difficult for a great dog, but the wind and rolling terrain was hard on a number of them. My question about the dogs. Do alot of them also run trials?


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Most (not all..._most_) SRS dogs compete in one or more of the hunting test venues, not in field trials....not full time, at least.

kg


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

SRS is a piece of cake.....

just take your dog to one and make yourself a lot of easy cash.-paul


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

K G said:


> Most (not all..._most_) SRS dogs compete in one or more of the hunting test venues, not in field trials....not full time, at least.
> 
> kg


I wonder if there is a way to get numbers on that. I know Tellus runs all his in FT's as well as HRC/HT/SRS and the occasional gundog challenges...

/Paul


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

I have no problem with the SRS. From what I've seen there is plenty of GOOD dog work to go around.

The only problem I have is the constant attempt to make the SRS sound like the PREMIER dog event out there. I'm willing to "let-it-be" when people say that it is different...no better, no worse. However, it really bothered me when on the episode shown on 6/3 stated that the finalist are "Field Trial Champions". Not sure if any of these dogs actually had the FC but ALL of the finalists certainly did not. I think this takes away from the tradition of the FT game which has been around far longer than the SRS. And more importantly takes away from the hundreds of great dogs that worked for years to obtain this very prestigious title.

SRS is certainly different. Lets keep it that way.


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## Lyle Harne (Jul 7, 2004)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> *I wonder if there is a way to get numbers* on that. I know Tellus runs all his in FT's as well as HRC/HT/SRS and the occasional gundog challenges...
> 
> /Paul


I searched Entry Express and from 2006 - Current it showed Tellus with 131 entries of which 9 were AA entries, 7 Qualifying entries and 4 trials of which one was a single entry in a Golden Retriever Specialty. The remaining 115 entries were hunt test or SRS entries. This information is limited to field trial clubs that use Entry Express and the accuracy of the search function.
Lyle


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## pafromga (Jul 16, 2006)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> I wonder if there is a way to get numbers on that. I know Tellus runs all his in FT's as well as HRC/HT/SRS and the occasional gundog challenges...
> 
> /Paul


I have competed against and seen Mr West at Field Trials.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Lyle Harne said:


> I searched Entry Express and from 2006 - Current it showed Tellus with 131 entries of which 9 were AA entries, 7 Qualifying entries and 4 trials of which one was a single entry in a Golden Retriever Specialty. The remaining 115 entries were hunt test or SRS entries. This information is limited to field trial clubs that use Entry Express and the accuracy of the search function.
> Lyle


Well, not sure if all his dogs are entered under him or their owners but I can tell ya, since i talk to him almost daily, train with him weekly and pull more practical jokes on him that any self respecting ******* can handle, that in just one local trial he ran more dogs than what you listed. But then again, to quote my good ******* friends, "what the h$ll do you know".....

/Paul


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

pafromga said:


> I have competed against and seen Mr West at Field Trials.


Then you can attest that his dogs don't run with any style and desire.  



/Paul


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

As with any televised show the SRS is going to build up hype and pitch the dogs as the best in the nation. (as I'm sure some of them are) Your average retriever person (the hunter) is going to be very impressed with these dogs and the work that they do. Working out of a duck stand or dock, using a "dog blind" that the retriever has to work out of etc. There are about 200 hunters on our dove lease, I'm guessing that 75% have dogs. Only guessing that none of them have ever seen a field trial, yet they will be glued to the set to watch the SRS or Ducks Unlimited. I know for a fact that alot of them used Wolters Water Dog to train their pups. Of course they are going to be amazed at the SRS dogs. Their dogs weren't even born on the same planet. I have been to a SRS event as a spectator. I don't have enough knowledge to comment on the setups and such. I have seen enough trials to know first hand that these dogs did not lack enthusiasm or drive.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

I have not yet attended a SRS but, I have recently met Tellus and watched the dogs on his truck perform almost flawlessly at a AKC Hunt Test in Washington. He was off to start the SRS after the HT. I was impressed by the style and drive of the dogs he ran. I would bet his dogs run with the same intensity and style at the SRS. 

Also, tough to judge the actual "concept" of the marks on TV without know if, the dogs had a previous fall or blind in the same area and were subject to other factors.


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## Lyle Harne (Jul 7, 2004)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Well, not sure if all his dogs are entered under him or their owners but I can tell ya, since i talk to him almost daily, train with him weekly and pull more practical jokes on him that any self respecting ******* can handle, *that in just one local trial he ran more dogs than what you listed. But then again, to quote my good ******* friends, "what the h$ll do you know".....*
> 
> /Paul


I only know what I stated - limited to entry express and the clubs that use entry express. I checked trials where Tellus was listed as handler, owner/handler, owner. I wonder why Entry Express showed only 4 field trials since 2/06. I'm sure your right Paul .... what was that trial and maybe I could figure out what I did wrong or I can determine why it shows so few trials run.
Maybe you'd like to check EE the search function is easy and maybe you can determine what I did wrong and why it shows Tellus in so few trials in the past 2 years. 
Lyle


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## pafromga (Jul 16, 2006)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Then you can attest that his dogs don't run with any style and desire.
> 
> 
> 
> /Paul


They have some very competitive dogs. His dog did better than my dog in the qual. I would not say that his dog had no style and desire, but he might say that about my old yellow hunt test dog. haha.


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## Lyle Harne (Jul 7, 2004)

Paul-
I found it he had 6 qualifying entries and 1 open entry in June at PRTA trial. The search didn't go to June so I checked June Field Trials in OR. and found this one. So 5 trials so far since 2006. You'd have to agree that 5 trials doesn't seem like very many opportunities for those SRS dogs to compete in Field Trials. It did look like they had ample opportunities to hone their skills in AKC hunt tests. 
Would those entries in the qualifying be dogs he competes with in SRS?
Lyle-


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

I Was In Martin Tn For That Srs And Seen One Dog That Was In The Fainals That Was Full Of Style And Disire And Saw The Same Dog On T.v. That Was In Reno N.v And The Same Thing There The Only One That Seem To Be Having Any Fun In The Finals Was A Dog Called Sinbab. He Was Real Fun To Watch.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

I watched the program in question and saw one dog (the bitch that actually won) who lacked style. From what JT was saying, it sounded like she's always had some momentum issues. Looked to me like the rest of them were going pretty hard. They certainly weren't pigs, anyway. 
As far as the quality of the dog work, I can't tell much by watching 5 dogs run a pretty big triple with a blind edited down to less than 16 minutes of footage. If I can't see all the dogs run all the marks from start to finish, it's tough to make a reasonable evaluation of what really happened. If watched the show and felt that the dog work at that level was substandard, instead of talking smack about them on the internet, I would probably saddle up and go get me some of that money and show those guys how it's done. But that's just me.


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## FowlDawgs (Oct 22, 2007)

The SRS is another dog event for people to test their dog's training, ability, and their handling abilities. Not everybody is going to like the SRS just like not everybody will like HT and FT. There are some great dogs in the SRS, but I don't think they're all great no more than I think all FT dogs are great. Enjoy the dogs anyway.

Cory


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

FowlDawgs said:


> The SRS is another dog event for people to test their dog's training, ability, and their handling abilities. Not everybody is going to like the SRS just like not everybody will like HT and FT. There are some great dogs in the SRS, but I don't think they're all great no more than I think all FT dogs are great. Enjoy the dogs anyway.
> 
> Cory



At the end of the day, this statement pretty much describes how all of the SRS discussions now end here on RTF. _It didn't used to be that way_. Hopefully we've all decided to respect and allow for the differences in each other's games and move on.

kg


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## Gordy Weigel (Feb 12, 2003)

Being a TV broadcast event has brought big name recognition to the SRS. I would bet that more people know the name Chris Akin, than know the names of Danny Farmer, Mike Lardy and Bill Eckett combined.
Outside of dog game people, who knows who Cutter is? Many outside the games know the name Rakin, Yellar and Slide.
The SRS is not the National Am or the National Open, but the handlers and dogs are much bigger household names, at least in household's that receiver Versus.
The SRS has been great for Retrievers in general, but in the end and the same can be said for FT's or HT's, it is still just a dog game.


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

The SRS attracts hunters which there are 100's of thouands of. The field trials atrract people that run field trials which there aren't too many. Only people that know the name Lardy, Farmer, ect are people that run trials and hunt test.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Greg E said:


> Only people that know the name Lardy, Farmer, ect are people that run trials and hunt test.




I would beg to differ…if have a retriever and you are semi interested in retrievers you know those two names.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

SRS is fun. I've run two and had a blast both times. You need to be a good handler to play that game, which explains why i didn't get paid the two times i ran.

There are some dogs that do well at SRS but wouldn't make competitive All-Age dogs. There are many all-age dogs that wouldn't make competitive obedience dogs. Ever talk to an obedience person in the gallery at a field trial.... we can teach these dogs to take angle back casts off points into the wind at 400 yards but can't teach them to sit still???????? They are like WTF!

They are different games, each challenging for different reasons. I think anyone from either side would tell you it takes a more special dog and more work to have a competitive all-age dog... but who cares. They are catering to a different audience and are doing far more for educating Joe Blow duck hunter what his dog is capable of doing than AKC is doing, so goodie for them.

Just don't be surprised when someone at a gas station asks about your dog truck, carrying a couple field champions, and they leave thinkin your field champions ain't near as good as YELLA! If your worried about what gas station guy thinks, field trial accomplishment isn't the way to impress him.

SM


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Why would an SRS attract more hunters than a field trial? I don't know much about the SRS. What little I have been told is the SRS runs extremely long marks and excruciating terrain blinds. Are they similar to field trial set ups?


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

Ever talk to an obedience person in the gallery at a field trial.... we can teach these dogs to take angle back casts off points into the wind at 400 yards but can't teach them to sit still???????? They are like WTF!


SM[/quote]

Pretty much describes anyone who's ever been to my house! 
You do WHAT on the weekends? as they fend off dogs, paws and a tornado of fur....


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2008)

Bur Oak said:


> Many outside the games know the name Rakin, Yellar and Slide.


Don't forget John Gassner.


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Wiredlabz said:


> Pretty much describes anyone who's ever been to my house!
> You do WHAT on the weekends? as they fend off dogs, paws and a tornado of fur....


Same here. And the old retired macho choco dawg is the WORST offender. He has to put a nose in every crotch. People are like "so he was a competition dog?"... and i'm like "not a very good one".

SM


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Shayne Mehringer said:


> SRS is fun. I've run two and had a blast both times. You need to be a good handler to play that game, which explains why i didn't get paid the two times i ran.
> 
> There are some dogs that do well at SRS but wouldn't make competitive All-Age dogs. There are many all-age dogs that wouldn't make competitive obedience dogs. *Ever talk to an obedience person in the gallery at a field trial.... we can teach these dogs to take angle back casts off points into the wind at 400 yards but can't teach them to sit still???????? They are like WTF!*
> 
> ...


Yup! Outstanding post! Whatever trips your trigger.

Ever watch an agility trial? Tell me THAT doesn't look like fun!

JS


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

JS said:


> Yup! Outstanding post! Whatever trips your trigger.
> 
> Ever watch an agility trial? Tell me THAT doesn't look like fun!
> 
> JS


Yup it sure does but you need to be 100lbs overweight and wear spandex....

Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.....

Angie


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Yup it sure does but you need to be 100lbs overweight and wear spandex....
> 
> Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.....
> 
> Angie


I thought the same thing...but there are some things a woman can say a man not dare..


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## JS (Oct 27, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Yup it sure does but you need to be 100lbs overweight and wear spandex....
> 
> Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.....
> 
> Angie


HEY!!! That's the fun of watching!!!

New meaning for "jello-babe" regards. 

JS


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

Patrick Johndrow said:


> I would beg to differ…if have a retriever and you are semi interested in retrievers you know those two names.


No disrespect intended. First tapes I bought were Lardys and I bought Danny's dvd about six months ago. I meant that your weekend hunter and trainer probabley wouldn't.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Greg E said:


> No disrespect intended. First tapes I bought were Lardys and I bought Danny's dvd about six months ago. I meant that your weekend hunter and trainer probabley wouldn't.




When did you start training retrievers?


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## Greg E (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been working at it for about four years, I've had hunting labs all my life. I bought a chessie 4 years ago and Steve Huff (breeder) told me about Lardy. I ordered his tapes and have been hooked ever since. The SRS appeals to alot of my friends that are strictly hunters. That's all I was saying. I've enjoyed running hunt test for about three years. Greg E


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## BrettG (Apr 4, 2005)

What is the deal with field trial people and their ego's. A FT is a great venue for some people to have their dogs compete, HT are also a great venue for others that want to play a game with their dogs. SRS is just another dog game, not better than either of the other two just different. Does a dog that wins an SRS event have talent? Yes. Could they compete on the trial circuit. Some could some couldn't. Could the HT dogs compete in trials some could some couldn't. They are all games and make owning dogs alot more fun for everyone. I would love to see a FT televised. I would love to see the Master National televised or even the Grand. Whatever makes our sport gain interest from the public helps us all. Especially, when you've got PETA and all those organizations that want to shut down dog training and using birds for training.

I agree with the person that said the bitch that won the event was boring to watch. I watched that dog all week and hated it. She did the work but it was work, and when I was freezing in the rain it took her FOREVER on the water setup in the semi's. And I didn't think she would ever get to my bird in the finals even with the downhill run it was slow.


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

Angie B said:


> Yup it sure does but you need to be 100lbs overweight and wear spandex....
> 
> Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.....
> 
> Angie


Now that's quite hilarious! Bet they don't jump in jello either.....


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Willow Oaks Retrievers said:


> What is the deal with field trial people and their ego's.


Well duh!!!! Why else spend thousands chasing a $3 ribbon??? Listening to all the complaining in the gallery every weekend is a dead give away that most aren't doing it cuz it's fun!

My ego is almost as big as my truck (ego pun intended) regards,

SM


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Angie, that was wrong. I'll admit i giggled a little, but still wrong. You are sooooo gettin a spankin next time i see you!

SM


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

pafromga said:


> They have some very competitive dogs. His dog did better than my dog in the qual. I would not say that his dog had no style and desire, but he might say that about my old yellow hunt test dog. haha.


I was being a bit tongue in cheek. Trust me, I train with those dogs and style is not a problem. 

/Paul


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Lyle Harne said:


> Paul-
> I found it he had 6 qualifying entries and 1 open entry in June at PRTA trial. The search didn't go to June so I checked June Field Trials in OR. and found this one. So 5 trials so far since 2006. You'd have to agree that 5 trials doesn't seem like very many opportunities for those SRS dogs to compete in Field Trials. It did look like they had ample opportunities to hone their skills in AKC hunt tests.
> Would those entries in the qualifying be dogs he competes with in SRS?
> Lyle-


Wow your pretty interested in what Tellus does. I can guarentee you that his dogs run in a lot more FT's than what you found. Do you want me to get you an autograph? 

/Paul


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## MIDTNGRNHEAD (Jun 17, 2004)

Great points Willow Oaks. The SRS has and is doing more to promote the retriever games than any other organization. Tell the AKC to get off it pompous a**, get some sponsors, and start promoting HT and FT. How many AKC events have you seen on TV lately? Once people see what we do, they are hooked.


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

MIDTNGRNHEAD said:


> Great points Willow Oaks. The SRS has and is doing more to promote the retriever games than any other organization. Tell the AKC to get off it pompous a**, get some sponsors, and start promoting HT and FT. How many AKC events have you seen on TV lately? Once people see what we do, they are hooked.


Yea let AKC get some sponsors and start having FT/HT on tv and see how long it would take before we would be using "rubber ducks"! Once you get money, sponsors and tv involved it changes everything. And I also don't know how much more promoting AKC needs when you keep having 100 plus dog opens and 80-90 Am's.


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## BrettG (Apr 4, 2005)

I agree that the AKC events are doing extremely well, but what does the AKC do to let JOE PUBLIC in on what we do and what our dogs can do. I guess I am just a person that loves to work with dogs and wants that passion to be passed on to others around.


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## Anthony Petrozza (Jan 4, 2005)

WOW I cant believe this went to so many pages!!! Here is what I have to say about the SRS..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdoKEStO61s


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## MIDTNGRNHEAD (Jun 17, 2004)

Willow & Brandoned-The AKC events are doing well. Heck our double master at MTARC this year had 558 total entries which was down slightly from last year. But is AKC doing anything to promote our games? Do you see an AKC ad flashing at the top of this screen? If AKC did start promoting the retriever games via TV it would require some changes but would that be all bad? I'm don't know the answer but folks shouldn't bash the SRS for the attention it is bring to our sport because they don't like or don't understand the format of the competition.


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## BetsyBernock (Jul 29, 2004)

Angie B said:


> Yup it sure does but you need to be 100lbs overweight and wear spandex....
> 
> Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.....
> 
> Angie


That goes hand in hand with one of my favorite sayings - 'just because they make it in your size, doesn't mean you should wear it'....

Never wearing spandex when running an agility course regards ~

Betsy


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

You know what I find hilarious? SRS uses real birds in some of the competitions. Only the ones that go on TV use Avery True Birds. Wanna know why they don't shoot real birds on TV? Take a wild guess? Anyone? When you come up with the answer to those questions ask yourself what AKC is doing to fight those who oppose using real birds. Ask yourself when was the last time AKC stood up for any of the performance events. Ask yourself where AKC was for the National Amature. Keep on asking how long it will be before AKC lets your FT/HT birds fly away......


/Paul


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Couple of things- first of all you are right on the money about the AKC and if you need help dog cussing them just call.
I really don't have a dog in this wrassling match, if Tackett and crew wants to throw some of Reinhards pink flamingos - I'm good with that. I would appreciate some advice though. Deal is- my admin (blond, 19 and none too bright) watched a show the other day and wants to know how come if the SRS can select the World Champion - best dog that ever lived using rubber duckies that me and all my bloodthirsty cronies insist on murdering helpless little birdies.

Help me out a little if ya can

At a loss for words regards

Bubba


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Bubba said:


> Couple of things- first of all you are right on the money about the AKC and if you need help dog cussing them just call.
> I really don't have a dog in this wrassling match, if Tackett and crew wants to throw some of Reinhards pink flamingos - I'm good with that. I would appreciate some advice though. Deal is- my admin (blond, 19 and none too bright) watched a show the other day and wants to know how come if the SRS can select the World Champion - best dog that ever lived using rubber duckies that me and all my bloodthirsty cronies insist on murdering helpless little birdies.
> 
> Help me out a little if ya can
> ...


First. We'll need pictures of your admin. 

Second. Tell her SRS uses real birds.

Third - Ask her if her birds are real or fake and if a person should have the right to choose.

/Paul


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## Don Smith (Mar 23, 2004)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> SRS uses real birds in some of the competitions. Only the ones that go on TV use Avery True Birds. Wanna know why they don't shoot real birds on TV? Take a wild guess? Anyone? When you come up with the answer to those questions ask yourself what AKC is doing to fight those who oppose using real birds. Ask yourself when was the last time AKC stood up for any of the performance events. Ask yourself where AKC was for the National Amature. Keep on asking how long it will be before AKC lets your FT/HT birds fly away......
> 
> 
> /Paul


Actually, although they use real birds in some, whether or not the event is on TV is not the only consideration. The upcoming SRS at Port Clinton, OH will not be a televised event and, according to Justin just a couple of days ago, they have not made a final decision on whether to use real birds or ATBs. They are leaning toward ATBs, though. The reason they don't use real birds on televised events is because the TV producers and network are against it, according to what I'm told. Remember the World Retriever Championship a few years ago? Chris and all did a great job with that, but I heard that there was only one because of the real bird issue. I find all of this network objection to real birds ironic and somewhat hypocritical given that you can turn on any outdoor network anytime, including the one that runs SRS, and see ducks, geese, turkeys, deer, you name it, sometimes even elephants, being shot. What's the difference?


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## MIDTNGRNHEAD (Jun 17, 2004)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> First. We'll need pictures of your admin.
> 
> Second. Tell her SRS uses real birds.
> 
> ...


LMAO Gun_Dog2002


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

MIDTNGRNHEAD said:


> Willow & Brandoned-The AKC events are doing well. Heck our double master at MTARC this year had 558 total entries which was down slightly from last year. But is AKC doing anything to promote our games? Do you see an AKC ad flashing at the top of this screen? If AKC did start promoting the retriever games via TV it would require some changes but would that be all bad? I'm don't know the answer but folks shouldn't bash the SRS for the attention it is bring to our sport because they don't like or don't understand the format of the competition.


I've re-read this thread from the beginning and I _swear_ I can't find anything that would lead anyone but the most sensitive to think that ANYONE is bashing the SRS. If I've missed something that could be construed as a bash, please point it out to me. It's entirely possible that I've missed the obvious.

The short answer about WHY the AKC is not more "visible" in its support of retriever sports (for you and an additional poster who should know better) is that retriever hunting tests and field trials are BLOOD SPORTS. I *know* I don't need to explain _that_ any further. The fact that we aren't under CONSTANT attack by PETA, the DDAL, and the HSUS, and don't need the state police or sheriff's department to keep their urban guerillas out of our events should pretty much let anyone who cares know that we're pretty safe _for now_. Constant diligence on the club level is the primary place to keep it that way. Kudos to whomever mentioned the level of entries in retriever events. How many more Master and Senior test levels do we want to have to split and put even more of a burden on clubs? How many more 100+ plus dog Opens and 80+ dog Amateurs do we want to endure? That would be ZERO for me. One-on-one recruitment and good community relations by individual clubs will keep the sport healthy. 

Clearly, the SRS stands on its on and done an EXCELLENT job of both internal and external marketing of the product. It is a RETAIL based, made-for-TV event that bears little resemblance to any of the registry or competition driven venues...and that is BY DESIGN....and that is OKAY. There is PLENTY of room for all that any of us want to do with our dogs. To each their own, let us live in peace and do all that we can to support the sport of dogs.

kg


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

K G said:


> I've re-read this thread from the beginning and I _swear_ I can't find anything that would lead anyone but the most sensitive to think that ANYONE is bashing the SRS. If I've missed something that could be construed as a bash, please point it out to me. It's entirely possible that I've missed the obvious.
> 
> The short answer about WHY the AKC is not more "visible" in its support of retriever sports (for you and an additional poster who should know better) is that retriever hunting tests and field trials are BLOOD SPORTS. I *know* I don't need to explain _that_ any further. The fact that we aren't under CONSTANT attack by PETA, the DDAL, and the HSUS, and don't need the state police or sheriff's department to keep their urban guerillas out of our events should pretty much let anyone who cares know that we're pretty safe _for now_. Constant diligence on the club level is the primary place to keep it that way. Kudos to whomever mentioned the level of entries in retriever events. How many more Master and Senior test levels do we want to have to split and put even more of a burden on clubs? How many more 100+ plus dog Opens and 80+ dog Amateurs do we want to endure? That would be ZERO for me. One-on-one recruitment and good community relations by individual clubs will keep the sport healthy.
> 
> ...


So your ok with the AKC not even covering the Nation Am?

/Paul


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> So your ok with the AKC not even covering the Nation Am?
> 
> /Paul


I was disappointed for sure but out of the plethora of AKC "problems" that was just put forth above, if them not covering the just-completed NARC championship stake is our main beef, we're doing pretty well. 

Seems to me Retriever News should take up the gauntlet, spring for some video coverage, and sell sponsorships. I hear YBS Media has some experience at covering dog events with videol!

kg


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

K G said:


> I was disappointed for sure but out of the plethora of AKC "problems" that was just put forth above, if them not covering the just-completed NARC championship stake is our main beef, we're doing pretty well.
> 
> Seems to me Retriever News should take up the gauntlet, spring for some video coverage, and sell sponsorships. I hear YBS Media has some experience at covering dog events with videol!
> 
> kg


I do miss the YBS reports. 

/paul


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> First. We'll need pictures of your admin.
> 
> Second. Tell her SRS uses real birds.
> 
> ...


I sent that big allhose to town to cash his welfare check and get more beer. While he is gone.....

Firstly- I hear what you are saying about the right to choose and I'm a big fan of that idea.

Buuuuuuuuut........

About a billion years ago the Greeks invented a war fighting technique that proved to be extremely effective. They outfitted each of their soldiers with a massive bronze shield, heavy bronze body armor and a 10 foot spear -also a biggo knife but it was mainly for emergencies. The idea is that by maintaining a close formation and interlocking the shields they presented an impregnable front to the enemy. The guys in back were protected and free to stab any opponents unlucky enough to come within striking distance. The key is that as soon as someone got hurt or killed, the remaining troops close ranks and reform the wall of shields. The discipline was iron clad and THE unforgivable sin was to break ranks. As soon as a seam or exposed edge appears, the whole thing collapses. Each individual soldier is so heavily armored that he is vulnerable to a more agile enemy. As long as the formation is maintained the chances of living to rape and pillage another day was a lot better.

I agree, the AKC isn't likely to be all that much assistance but when we give the AR wackos an opportunity to point out and make us defend the inconsistencies - well we just sound a LOT lamer.

We agree on most things and at the end of the day I'm real sure that whatever the venue of choice (AKC/UKC/NAHRA/SRS) all of us who enjoy these games will agree the there are lots of folks that would like very much for us to find another way to amuse ourselves. It isn't in our best interests to give them the opportunity to have a difference to point out.

This ain't no time to break ranks regards

Bubba


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Seriously this thread would be better with pics of the admin. You know I'm about as pro bird as they come. At the same time we've all had to change behavior to not only defend our position, but also avoid conflicts when possible. Since you apparently have been reading world history to keep from smoking you'll probably have notice that while the military formation worked great in battle, the truly successful Greek leader Alexander the Great used strategy to pick his battles, move his troops strategically and attack when the time was right. It was only after his death when his 4 cluster gaggle generals took over and started fighting among themselves that the empire took a dive. While I'm standing right beside you on the bird issue, strategically its in our best interest to introduce people slowly to the idea of hunting and retrievers. We have two people in our club who got a retriever because their wives saw the dogs on the SRS and wanted to try training a retriever. In my book thats a pretty good thing. At first they weren't too keen on the birds, but now they huck ducks with the best of them. I want my birds, but I want my hunting rights and my dogs as well. 

/Paul


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Bubba said:


> I sent that big allhose to town to cash his welfare check and get more beer. While he is gone.....
> 
> Firstly- I hear what you are saying about the right to choose and I'm a big fan of that idea.
> 
> ...


Good post Bubba! 

FOM


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Bubba said:


> About a billion years ago the Greeks invented a war fighting technique that proved to be extremely effective. They outfitted each of their soldiers with a massive bronze shield, heavy bronze body armor and a 10 foot spear -also a biggo knife but it was mainly for emergencies. *The idea is that by maintaining a close formation and interlocking the shields they presented an impregnable front to the enemy. The guys in back were protected and free to stab any opponents unlucky enough to come within striking distance. The key is that as soon as someone got hurt or killed, the remaining troops close ranks and reform the wall of shields. The discipline was iron clad and THE unforgivable sin was to break ranks. As soon as a seam or exposed edge appears, the whole thing collapses. Each individual soldier is so heavily armored that he is vulnerable to a more agile enemy. As long as the formation is maintained the chances of living to rape and pillage another day was a lot better.*
> 
> I agree, the AKC isn't likely to be all that much assistance but when we give the AR wackos an opportunity to point out and make us defend the inconsistencies - well we just sound a LOT lamer.
> 
> ...


Except for the "rape and pillage" part, that's as good a description of a _*phalanx*_ as I've ever read!

Glad you're on my team (_seriously_) regards , ;-)

kg


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## Shayne Mehringer (Jan 3, 2003)

Bubba said:


> About a billion years ago the Greeks invented a war fighting technique that proved to be extremely effective. They outfitted each of their soldiers with a massive bronze shield, heavy bronze body armor and a 10 foot spear -also a biggo knife but it was mainly for emergencies. The idea is that by maintaining a close formation and interlocking the shields they presented an impregnable front to the enemy. The guys in back were protected and free to stab any opponents unlucky enough to come within striking distance. The key is that as soon as someone got hurt or killed, the remaining troops close ranks and reform the wall of shields. The discipline was iron clad and THE unforgivable sin was to break ranks. As soon as a seam or exposed edge appears, the whole thing collapses. Each individual soldier is so heavily armored that he is vulnerable to a more agile enemy. As long as the formation is maintained the chances of living to rape and pillage another day was a lot better.


Here, in these the aughts, we call that firing up the internet bus. Prolly not quite as effective, but definitely less blood to clean up.

SM


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

I believe that if you win in SRS that you get MONEY for winning and even a ribbon too..........


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

K G said:


> Except for the "rape and pillage" part, that's as good a description of a _*phalanx*_ as I've ever read!
> 
> Glad you're on my team (_seriously_) regards , ;-)
> 
> kg



Hey hey hey, whoa there. We just got rid of nasty talk like that, lets calm down on the wording there sir....

/Paul


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

The Greeks had obedience without the spandex......We need to re-unite to fight the use of spandex in obedience rings so, lets close the ranks and fight the improper use of spandex! 

Am I understanding the jist of this post??????

or, something about rape and pillage, a big phalanx, 10' spear, bloodsport and one floppy rubber d*ck at the SRS. (place a U in there) 


SRS isn't active in my neighborhood but, I sure like watching a good working dog no matter what the venue, UKC, HRC, AKC----The more the merrier.(without spandex)


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Hey hey hey, whoa there. We just got rid of nasty talk like that, lets calm down on the wording there sir....
> 
> /Paul


On the off chance that someone takes you seriously...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_formation

The 300, Leonidas, and the Battle of Thermopylae regards, 

kg


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

K G said:


> On the off chance that someone takes you seriously...........
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_formation
> 
> ...


 I just watched 300, it was a pretty good show...

/Paul


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

Ya, but it woulda been better with more explosions and some monster trucks!


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> I just watched 300, it was a pretty good show...
> 
> /Paul



It's _especially_ good in HD! 

Graphic regards,

kg


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Dern it- I make ONE serious post in like 5 years and you Yahoos GDG it all up. 

Gonna make me take up drinking regards

Bubba


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Bubba, 

I'll meet ya at the Acropolis.....seems fitting....a greek venue no less....


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Bubba said:


> Dern it- I make ONE serious post in like 5 years and you Yahoos GDG it all up.
> 
> Gonna make me take up drinking regards
> 
> Bubba


Its hard to take you serious with you wearing that camo thong toga.....

/paul


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## JeffLusk (Oct 23, 2007)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Its hard to take you serious with you wearing that camo thong toga.....
> 
> /paul


ahh man... i just got a mental pic of bubba wearing a thong...


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

I don't know how JT will feel about my posting this. I'm not sure how Chris will feel about my posting this. I think its pertinent to this thread though. We often get into these HT vs. FT. vs SRS threads and I found this reply from JT a couple of days ago interesting and pertinent. This is a direct quote from JT from the SRS message board regarding using birds in an upcoming SRS event. 

/Paul





JT said:


> There is no doubt the consistency of marks....(everybody sees the same bird) is very good with an ATB. Although it's a nice change of pace to throw some real birds...
> 
> We'll fall back on what's best for the handlers and the program as well as other programs on where we will go in Ohio. We do not want to be looked at by HRC and AKC as a competitor. We only want to support their efforts. We are here to advertise those programs and the success those programs create.
> 
> ...


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