# Who are the best field trial trainers in the country



## Ben_ferguson (Apr 5, 2011)

who are the best field trial trainers in the country and does any one know how much allan pleasant charges a month for training? Also can some one explain the steps in the field trial world that a dog takes. I'm guessing they from the derby then to all age right? how does a dog become a FC and now does a dog become QAA but not ever become an FC? How do you know what stake to run your dog in? thanks.


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## Malcolm (Oct 13, 2006)

The best trainers in the Country - There are a lot of qualified trainers in the country.
Proximity, wining records, style, Personality have a lot to do with how pro's are chosen.
Call Alan, he will discuss prices with you.
Derby 6months - 2years old, Qualifying Stake, AA stakes Open/Amateur
FC - win an Open and 10 points
QAA - first or second in a Qualifyer, or place in AA stake.
The Dogs ability and level of training usually determines the level he can run at sucessfully. 

1. Go to an Event and watch
2. Then find someone at the trial to explain the details. (Pro).
3. Understand the committment, and have rational expectations.
4. Welcolme to the sport

Good luck.

For more details Go to www.AKC.org
Entryexpress.net for events near you.


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## Gawthorpe (Oct 4, 2007)

The AKC Rule book on Retriever Field Trials is also a great place to get many answers to your question. 

Your questions demand such detailed answers that you will be hard pressed to get them on the RTF.

But a great place to start is through your local hunt test or field trial club.

Good Luck


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

The $ that the top field trial trainers charge probably fall in the category of, if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

I have no idea what Alan charges, but I'll ball park a number that any of the top trainers in the country may charge and maybe others will be able to tell you if it sounds reasonable.

$750 - 1,000 per month plus flyers, vet bills, meds, handling fees, travel expenses, and entry fees.


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## Ben_ferguson (Apr 5, 2011)

Yeah I can. I want the best.


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## Ben_ferguson (Apr 5, 2011)

Thank you tho.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

What neck of the woods you from?

There are good retriever trainers in all parts of the country.


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## Ben_ferguson (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm from Paducah, ky about 2hrs from Nashville 3 hrs from stl


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## Dog Pro (Apr 9, 2008)

captainjack,you are pretty spot on with your prices.The best is a matter of opinion,how many dogs ran,how long they been playing and staying at the top.The list is long.

Lardy
Farmer
Trott
Sargenti
Patopea
Curtis
Totten
this is just a small list of many,and don't forget some of the Am's that give the pro's a run,week in and week out.
Vollstedt
Darnell
Hatch


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## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

Toss in Mark Smith in LA.


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Dog Pro said:


> captainjack,you are pretty spot on with your prices.The best is a matter of opinion,how many dogs ran,how long they been playing and staying at the top.The list is long.
> 
> Lardy
> Farmer
> ...


Ledford? .


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

black_dog84 said:


> Yeah I can. I want the best.


You sound like the kind of client most pro's are just salivating over . As long as you can afford the best, have your secretary research the list for you. Hint: there are some awful good pro's whose name did not appear on Dog Pro's list, he didn't even get all the one's on this circuit correct. But I doubt if he runs FT's. 

Good Luck in your quest, some in the sport deserve you!


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Forgot Mr. Bill Eckett, Mr. Dave Rorem, & Mr. Scott Dewey. They're "pretty good" too.


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## Denver (Dec 10, 2007)

Mr. Attar, Mr. Sletten, and Mr. Ward, aren't too shabby either!


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

The Arthurs have a GREAT program here in Georgia. Besides Mr. Hugh and Al, they got Mike Ough doing basics and Jason Baker in transition to AA.
Top notch program!


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Some of the best pros don't take puppies-some you have to go to a young dog pro first and then get recommended.


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## Tom D (Jan 3, 2003)

"Joe the Pro", hands down

Just ask him. he will tell you


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## WKHRC (Feb 12, 2008)

If you're in Paducah, you might want to talk to Trey at Tall Oaks Kennels. He just moved to Kevil on Bethel Church Road. We also have the Lincoln Trail RC trial on May 6-8 at the West Ky WMA in Kevil where you can see the different stakes, etc. and see how a trial works first-hand.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Alan Pleasant is a good one, too. I knew him way back when he was running NAHRA and he was a perfect professional gentleman then. Since he has switched to big time trials he has had a lot of success.


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## cpj (Sep 28, 2009)

The best could be the one with the lowest washout rate. When you find out who that is let us know (please).


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

cpj said:


> The best could be the one with the lowest washout rate. When you find out who that is let us know (please).


Wow, I have a different opinion. The lowest washout rate means the guy accepts anything and trains it for $. If the client wants a huntin' dog that's fine, almost all dogs will improve with training and the standards aren't so high. If he wants an all age competitor I want a pro who's picky about what he keeps on the truck. Once you've figured out you have a square dog, there's no sense trying to make him fit in a round hole.


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## John Shoffner (Jan 27, 2009)

I second Karen's suggestion of Sandhill Kennels in Lincolnton, GA. I have been extremely pleased with Mike Ough's training of my young dog and the results of Mike, Mr. Hugh, Al Arthur, and Jason Baker in trials speaks for itself. Training grounds are outstanding and they give honest open feedback on how the dogs are progressing. 

John


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Karen McCullah said:


> The Arthurs have a GREAT program here in Georgia. Besides Mr. Hugh and Al, they got Mike Ough doing basics and Jason Baker in transition to AA.
> Top notch program!


I'll second the Arthurs, plenty of trainers, giving your dog plenty of good work. My dog has been with them and is way beyond what I expected.


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## Dog Pro (Apr 9, 2008)

Yep,like i said the list is long,just threw out a few off the top of my head,the others added belong there as well,it all comes down to who YOU feel the most comfortable with,statistics are just part of the equation,you need to be able to get along with them as well.Good luck in your search


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

Cherelyn Loveland in Colorado. She will train your dog well and you too! You do have to run your own dog in trials. She trains em, doesn't run em in trials.


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## Ragin Storm Retrievers (Jan 9, 2006)

I do have a dog with Alan at Black River Retrievers. You will not find a harder working pro or two nicer folks than him and Gwen. Alan probably has the biggest or one of the biggest strings of FC's on any truck in the US. I just went back and counted, and he has at least 16 titled dogs on his truck. With more on the way. A couple either have quite a few points and needs their win or have their win and needs points. I'm not saying that others around the US are not just as good. There are several that always seem to place just about every weekend. Alan is one of those who does the same. This past weekend at Talbot RC he took every placement in the Open plus two in the Derby. Not every dog fits every trainer either. Take your time and talk with some of the ones mentioned and try to arrange time to go out and watch. And best of luck to ya. This is a tough sport that most weekends you will go home with nothing. But the few that you do take color home in keeps you coming back for more.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

Why is it that people always say that "their pro" is the hardest working out there? What an insult to all the professional trainers who bust their rear ends day in and day out, year after year.

We're glad you are pleased with your pro, but have some respect.


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

black_dog84 said:


> who are the best field trial trainers in the country and does any one know how much allan pleasant charges a month for training? Also can some one explain the steps in the field trial world that a dog takes. I'm guessing they from the derby then to all age right? how does a dog become a FC and now does a dog become QAA but not ever become an FC? How do you know what stake to run your dog in? thanks.


The folks who have plenty of money find it easier to purchase a dog with an established performance record. You might buy a dozen puppies and not find a really competitive dog. Good luck.


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## Jon Couch (Jan 2, 2008)

Ragin Storm Retrievers said:


> I do have a dog with Alan at Black River Retrievers. *You will not find a harder working pro* or two nicer folks than him and Gwen. Alan probably has the biggest or one of the biggest strings of FC's on any truck in the US. I just went back and counted, and he has at least 16 titled dogs on his truck. With more on the way. A couple either have quite a few points and needs their win or have their win and needs points. I'm not saying that others around the US are not just as good. There are several that always seem to place just about every weekend. Alan is one of those who does the same. This past weekend at Talbot RC he took every placement in the Open plus two in the Derby. Not every dog fits every trainer either. Take your time and talk with some of the ones mentioned and try to arrange time to go out and watch. And best of luck to ya. This is a tough sport that most weekends you will go home with nothing. But the few that you do take color home in keeps you coming back for more.


I don't see where he said that he was the hardest working pro out there I just see that he feels that his pro wont be outworked meaning that there are other pro's that work just as hard , just maybe not harder


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## jgrammer (Jun 23, 2008)

Second what Mel said. 



Melanie Foster said:


> Why is it that people always say that "their pro" is the hardest working out there? What an insult to all the professional trainers who bust their rear ends day in and day out, year after year.
> 
> We're glad you are pleased with your pro, but have some respect.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Melanie Foster said:


> Why is it that people always say that "their pro" is the hardest working out there? What an insult to all the professional trainers who bust their rear ends day in and day out, year after year.
> 
> We're glad you are pleased with your pro, but have some respect.


X2...my guess is that it makes people feel good about the choice THEY made


but as was mentioned in an earlier post it would be best to check and see who does the training of the pup and what pro they normally transition to...lots of great choices out there from coast to coast

finding a pro is a lot like finding a doctor, you might want to build a relationship with one before settling on one based on anyone's opinion,certain pros seem to do better with certain type dogs and certain types of clients to be perfectly blunt..

interview as many as you can, and when you get a certain feeling and connection trust those instincts...

one other factor to consider, it may be better to be dog # 1 or 2 on one pro's truck,as opposed to being dog # 15 on another pro's truck


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Howard N said:


> Wow, I have a different opinion. The lowest washout rate means the guy accepts anything and trains it for $. If the client wants a huntin' dog that's fine, almost all dogs will improve with training and the standards aren't so high. If he wants an all age competitor I want a pro who's picky about what he keeps on the truck. Once you've figured out you have a square dog, there's no sense trying to make him fit in a round hole.


Agreed. The dog either has it or doesn't. I'm still looking for one that does. :neutral::neutral:


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## Old School Labs (May 17, 2006)

Tim West said:


> Cherelyn Loveland in Colorado. She will train your dog well and you too! You do have to run your own dog in trials. She trains em, doesn't run em in trials.



2x no one better, period end. She has helped me way beyond words.


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## Ragin Storm Retrievers (Jan 9, 2006)

Boy, some folks must just look for something to argue about on here. My statement that PRO A was a very hard worker never said that there are not others who work just as hard and get just as good of results. I also never said that my pro can beat your pro. That is why I told him to check with several and go and train with them if he has a chance. There are several pros out there from coast to coast who work very hard and get great results. I was merely telling the guy who asked the question MY EXPERIENCE with the pro that he asked about. NEVER ONCE said that he was THE ONE. Maybe you should re-read my post Mel, and reflect. Have a good one.


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

So you really didn't have to ask.

Keep in mind that some of the pros listed, and others not listed but considered as top pros, may not take puppies or young dogs.

Since you have the $$$, you may want to get 4 or 5 pups and put them with a great young dog trainer or two, then if they show promise, put them with a couple or more different pros that run different circuits. No sense in losing to yourself every weekend, if you could win somewhere else.

Or, as someone suggested, spend the $$$ on a prospect or two.

One way to start narrowing down your pro list is to take a look at the Retriever News or other source to see which pros are consistantly taking dogs to the National or who have dogs on the high point list. You have to keep in mind, that many of these dogs may have been started by someone other than the pro who has them now. In the end, meet with and watch the pro and meet and talk to some of the clients before deciding.

Good Luck.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

captainjack said:


> Keep in mind that some of the pros listed, and others not listed but considered as top pros, may not take puppies or young dogs.
> 
> Since you have the $$$, you may want to get 4 or 5 pups and put them with a great young dog trainer or two, then if they show promise, put them with a couple or more different pros that run different circuits. No sense in losing to yourself every weekend, if you could win somewhere else.
> 
> ...


This is basically what people do that want an all age player with emphasis on buying a started dog that looks good from some of the people that do that that type of training and skip the puppy stuff. You will find out no matter how good the breeding and how good the trained it is still a crap shoot to find a special dog. Most of us have been there multiple times


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## docG (Mar 9, 2011)

Melanie Foster said:


> Why is it that people always say that "their pro" is the hardest working out there? What an insult to all the professional trainers who bust their rear ends day in and day out, year after year.
> 
> We're glad you are pleased with your pro, but have some respect.


WOW! How do you take anything he said in his post as an insult or disrespectful unless you have some sort of chip on your shoulder. Some people are always looking for the negative.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

The best would be the Pro with the best Batting Average in All Age stakes.
Meaning; the highest earned points average per dog entered including client dogs running the Amateur.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Are any of these trainers in Michigan???


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

There is a site where you can look at trainer success.

http://retrieverresults.com/#/Home


For a young dog, I'd look to see who the top 10 in derby were last year.


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## Brian Cockfield (Jun 4, 2003)

John Lash said:


> I'll second the Arthurs, plenty of trainers, giving your dog plenty of good work. My dog has been with them and is way beyond what I expected.


Congrats on your recent Q 2nd with LB. He ran a nice trial.


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

Buzz said:


> There is a site where you can look at trainer success.
> 
> http://retrieverresults.com/#/Home
> 
> ...


Too bad they don't do batting averages;-) An average of points per dog entered in both Open and Amateur stakes would be a real eye opener. I don't think the usual suspects would be at the top of the list.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Franco said:


> Too bad they don't do batting averages;-) An average of points per dog entered in both Open and Amateur stakes would be a real eye opener. I don't think the usual suspects would be at the top of the list.


If you run 10-20 dogs and there's only 4 places, your points per dog per trial may not be to high. Total points per trial for the handler could be way up there.

Just sayin' regards,


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## cpj (Sep 28, 2009)

I know my pro is the hardest working and I can prove it. He makes his all age string sit at the dinner table while he eats just to improve their obedience. One time he was force fetching a dog while waiting at Jiffy Lube for an oil change and fell into the underground bay, but he never lost grip on that ear!!! I once saw him throwing marks at a cemetery while deciding which section to be buried in as he was pre-arranging his funeral. He NEVER stops working. I could go on but you get my point, my pro works hard!!!


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

docG said:


> WOW! How do you take anything he said in his post as an insult or disrespectful unless you have some sort of chip on your shoulder. Some people are always looking for the negative.


I just happen to be a very literal person. Education can do that to you.


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## docG (Mar 9, 2011)

Melanie Foster said:


> I just happen to be a very literal person. Education can do that to you.


 I'm not sure education has anything to do with it. However, I also understand that we all see things differently.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

docG said:


> However, I also understand that we all see things differently.


A wise observation, grasshopper.


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## Denver (Dec 10, 2007)

docG said:


> WOW! How do you take anything he said in his post as an insult or disrespectful unless you have some sort of chip on your shoulder. Some people are always looking for the negative.


Don't worry, she has more "opinions" than anyone on here!


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Denver said:


> Don't worry, she has more "opinions" than anyone on here!


So, what's the problem with that?


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## Patrick Barnes (Jan 13, 2011)

KNorman said:


> So, what's the problem with that?


Nothin in my opinion. sure as heck keeps things interesting. Just think how much fun RTF would be if we all got along and agreed all the time..


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

PBarnes said:


> Nothin in my opinion. sure as heck keeps things interesting.* Just think how much fun RTF would be if we all got along and agreed all the time.*.


B O R I N G


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Buzz said:


> There is a site where you can look at trainer success.
> 
> http://retrieverresults.com/#/Home
> 
> ...


Does this site tell you were the trainers are located-for instance any in Michigan?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Melanie Foster said:


> I just happen to be a very literal person. Education can do that to you.


 
And the rest are uneducated, or just not as bitchy? ;-)
Come on Fel, what kind of goof ball would type on a public forum.
“My pro sucks, is a total slacker, lazy as a hound dog after a welfare BBQ.”




.


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## Jerry Beil (Feb 8, 2011)

I'm not in the FT game, but this is an interesting thread none the less.

I don't think you can look at any one stat out there - like low wash-out or anything like that as indicating anything other than exactly what it measures - statistically speaking.

A trainer could have a low washout rate because he trains whatever anybody give him for money. Or, because he's very selective and generally doesn't even start working with a dog he doesn't already have a pretty good idea about. Both of those might not really indicate anything about how good of a trainer or FTer he/she is.

Or, it could be because he's somewhat selective about the pups he takes, AND he's dang good and generally gets results.

Same thing with batting average kind of stats - if they have 4 or 5 really good dogs - someone else could have trained them, or done most of making them good - they could be really good statistically, but only because those same 4-5 dogs consistently do well.

Judging the best, hardest working, in this as in anything is a very subjective thing. There's not really any way to objectively quantity it. If there was, we'd all know that the Bears are the best team in the history of the NFL.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Does this site tell you were the trainers are located-for instance any in Michigan?


Mary Lynn, go to www.prta.net. They list all the members of the professional retriever assoc. by state and alphabetically. You can pull up your state, and then peruse the list for some of the names you have seen mentioned. Does that help? Remember, the large majority do not "day train" with the owners. Most want at least a 4 month contract to accept your dog. 

How ya doing??


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Mary Lynn Metras said:


> Does this site tell you were the trainers are located-for instance any in Michigan?


These trainers come up from the PRTA site. I have heard good things about all three.


Davis, David & Shondra
Chieftan Kennels
859 Van Buskirk Rd
Ironwood, MI 49938
(906)932-3646
(906)362-9418
www.chieftankennels.com
[email protected]

LANCZAK, Tera
Bay Blue Kennels
PO Box 94
Augres, MI 48703
(660)441-1605
www.baybluekennels.com
[email protected]

VALLIN, Ben
Strongline Retrievers
2306 Bollman Drive
Lansing, MI 48917
(517)420-8908
[email protected]


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

Buzz said:


> VALLIN, Ben
> Strongline Retrievers
> 2306 Bollman Drive
> Lansing, MI 48917
> ...


I believe Ben is training dogs for K2 now days.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

2tall said:


> Mary Lynn, go to www.prta.net. They list all the members of the professional retriever assoc. by state and alphabetically. You can pull up your state, and then peruse the list for some of the names you have seen mentioned. Does that help? *Remember, the large majority do not "day train" with the owners. Most want at least a 4 month contract to accept your dog*.
> 
> How ya doing??


Really? Not my experience, but then again mine is limited.


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## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

Melanie Foster said:


> I just happen to be a very literal person. Education can do that to you.


 
Education can be and often is much overrated. 

I've known people with multiple Phd's who are truly as dumb as a sack of hammers. They're stuck with an "inside the box" type of thinking and can't fathom innovative new ideas or concepts unless they're already printed in some text book which they're able to memorize.


Some of the most intelligent people I've ever met have been the ones whose education may be lacking by traditional standards but are able to think "outside the box" and can challenge conventional thinking and wisdom instead of just reciting by rote, ideas and concepts that others have already come up with. 

Apologies for sidetracking this thread.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

FOM said:


> Really? Not my experience, but then again mine is limited.


Lainee, I am not claiming experience comparable to yours. But at least in this area, the best pros have enough dogs to work with that they honestly do not have time to include day training owners that want to join in. That is why I go to a retired pro for my help. I am not saying that the owners can not attend and run their dogs IF the dog is already in that pro's program.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

FOM said:


> Really? Not my experience, but then again mine is limited.


Most pros don't have time to do day training. If you are a client, and have a previous dog along, if you throw birds, you are usually worked in on marks-but maybe not wb. Some pros are set up to do that but not A list pros. I recommend if you are looking for a pro go visit and watch. All this talk of statistics and washouts is kind of silly. Some paying clients with multiple dogs tell pros to keep going on dogs, some pros are full and they have the luxury of taking only the best. I ask my pro to take it slow with some dogs and he does while another pro would wash them. That's how I ended up with the pros I am with because they have the patience of working through projects but I trust them to tell me when to quit. It's a tough game and pros have off years when their dogs have all age potential but they are not there yet. The wealthy clients put multiple dogs in training and sometimes with multiple pros because one pro doesn't have that many spots open.


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

"Quote"Most pros don't have time to do day training. If you are a client, and have a previous dog along, if you throw birds, you are usually worked in on marks-but maybe not wb. Some pros are set up to do that but not A list pros. I recommend if you are looking for a pro go visit and watch. All this talk of statistics and washouts is kind of silly. Some paying clients with multiple dogs tell pros to keep going on dogs, some pros are full and they have the luxury of taking only the best. I ask my pro to take it slow with some dogs and he does while another pro would wash them. That's how I ended up with the pros I am with because they have the patience of working through projects but I trust them to tell me when to quit. It's a tough game and pros have off years when their dogs have all age potential but they are not there yet. The wealthy clients put multiple dogs in training and sometimes with multiple pros because one pro doesn't have that many spots open."QUOTE"
*Very nicely said.*
Sue


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## Karen McCullah (Feb 28, 2007)

I'm welcome to come out any day I can to train with the pros at Sandhill. They have helped me tremendously with improving my handling skills, learning how to read my dog, becoming a team, etc...
Al also has a policy that NO client works in the field throwing. They have their own bird boys/shooters and we are there to run our dogs and learn. I have learned quite alot by just being quiet and listening to them (Al, Mr. Hugh, Jason, Mike) just TALKING to each other about the dogs, what they saw, what they expected based on the test setup, etc...
I think a large part of their success is that they are great with the handlers/clients. They don't only want FCs, they want AFCs as well.

I've trained with Don Remien and he is the same way...excellent trainer for the dogs AND teacher for the amateur handler. I can't even tell you in one post how much I learned from him when I lived in California. He knows what the dogs are thinking before they do! 

There are many trainers who are great with the dogs, but I'd suggest someone who is great with the clients/handlers too.


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## Jon Couch (Jan 2, 2008)

Al Arthur is in MI for the summer months


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## Steve (Jan 4, 2003)

Do you want to win or do you want to enjoy the game. If all you care about is having a winning dog, pick the top pro that you can afford. Plenty of stats you can look at.

Do you want to handle the dog at all. Do you want to be able to watch the dog run. Do you want a pro who meshes with your personality. Too many intangibles to cover over the internet. Go the the Lincoln Trail trial. It is one of the most enjoyable trials out there. Talk to people and you will get a better idea of what the game is about.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2011)

Ken Bora said:


> And the rest are uneducated, or just not as bitchy? ;-)
> Come on Fel, what kind of goof ball would type on a public forum.
> “My pro sucks, is a total slacker, lazy as a hound dog after a welfare BBQ.”


"My pro" is a slacker but he accepts Golden bitches so I had to settle. There, I've admitted it.


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