# Lab pup "stalking" objects thrown



## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Just curious how normal it is to have a lab pup "stalk" something that is thrown for it. I can't say that I have ever seen it before, but I've only owned two labs. About half the time I throw something for my 9 week old pup, he will slowly stalk it, or sometimes even stop with his tail straight out like he is on a point. Then he will pounce on the item. His concentration while doing this is quite impressive, as is his "point" with his tail perfectly straight. The other half of the time he will charge right after what I throw. Any thoughts about this?


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## dakota8678 (Jan 3, 2011)

I have a 16 week old ylf who did the same thing. As she got older and more excited about retrieving she stopped.


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## Patrick Barnes (Jan 13, 2011)

Just being a puppy is my guess


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

dakota8678 said:


> I have a 16 week old ylf who did the same thing. As she got older and more excited about retrieving she stopped.


I'm guessing this will be the case with my pup also, but this was the first time I had seen this before so I thought I would ask. He is all puppy that's for sure!


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

Maybe (if you like the idea of a Lab that Points) you should get the book, "Training the Pointing Labrador", by Julie Knutson.
It's only available from the Knutson website at http://gunclub-labs.com/



.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Ours would stalk a little, has out grown it...


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Meleagris1 said:


> Just curious how normal it is to have a lab pup "stalk" something that is thrown for it. I can't say that I have ever seen it before, but I've only owned two labs. About half the time I throw something for my 9 week old pup, he will slowly stalk it, or sometimes even stop with his tail straight out like he is on a point. Then he will pounce on the item. His concentration while doing this is quite impressive, as is his "point" with his tail perfectly straight. The other half of the time he will charge right after what I throw. Any thoughts about this?


You have a pointing lab puppy.

WRL


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## Terri (May 28, 2008)

My puppy will stalk things thrown or toys she sees from across the room. She looks more like a cat on a hunt than a pointing Labrador. 

Terri


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

WRL said:


> You have a pointing lab puppy.
> 
> WRL


Will that and a Quarter get me a phone call? 

In all seriousness though I know little to nothing about pointing labs, but understand it is genetic to a some degree.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

It is estimated that between 7% and 10% of Labs from *non*-pointing pedigrees will show a natural (genetic) point.



.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Doc E said:


> It is estimated that between 7% and 10% of Labs from *non*-pointing pedigrees will show a natural (genetic) point.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Not to worry. The goods ones will outgrow it


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Doc E said:


> It is estimated that between 7% and 10% of Labs from *non*-pointing pedigrees will show a natural (genetic) point.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thanks Doc. If this is the case with my pup, does this generally cause any problems that I should be aware of specific to FT or HT training.


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## deanlange (Apr 26, 2010)

my 4 month old does the same thing but instead of objects she stalks my other labs. My 11 year old will allow the occasional pounce but the 4 year is not having anything to do with it. I hear an occasional yelp when the 4 year old gets pounced.


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## Socks (Nov 13, 2008)

Meleagris1 said:


> Thanks Doc. If this is the case with my pup, does this generally cause any problems that I should be aware of specific to FT or HT training.


No problems. Me and my dog will be running finished this year. He knows when to point and when to get fetch. It does keep me from running HRC upland and the Grand(if I ever wanted to) because the rules state that the dog has to flush.

My dog's littermate points and has way more titles than JD. If the owner wants to chime in he can.


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## Wayne Beck (Mar 22, 2010)

My BLM who is now 9 months old started that way and now is a retrieving machine


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Just a follow up on this thread - my pup is now 3 years old. Took him out for pheasants yesterday and shot 9 - he locked up or pointed on every single one. I guess he's in the 7-10%. It was a fun hunt!


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## cubdriver (Jan 1, 2006)

Don't panic, but you have a lab that would point when hunting upland game. I have had three generations of them. All of them frequently pointed when pheasant hunting. That being said, each of them was run in FT's and HT's. Nobody in those activities ever suspected that any of them would point, as they never displayed that trait in those activities. All of my training has been done by me. The first dog never titled in FT's but ended up with two open seconds and two amateur seconds as well as other placements. She went 6 for 6 in AKC master hunt tests. Her daughter won three Q's and went 3 for 3 in AKC MH before I discovered a huge hearing loss at age three, and was unable to do water blinds in all-age field trials, where handling in noisy situations was impossible. The third placed from 4th to 2nd in the 5 Q's which she ran (one was only RJ). My 9 year old grand daughter ran her in her first hunt test, a senior, and passé with flying colors. Personally I will be looking for another dog like yours within the next year. I really enjoy the pointing and NEVER saw it appear while duck hunting or when competing.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

Define "Lab stalking" or "Lab pointing" a thrown object.










MG


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

My only advice is that if you want to develop his "possible" pointing instincts and will be posting regularly on RTF (or any other retriever training forum) is to develop a "thick skin".









_*Pointing Labs (link)*_


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## Paul Frey (Jun 15, 2012)

Meleagris1. Where did you hunt the pheasant. I am also from the Hudson River Valley area and I was out on Saturday at TMT with my 18 month old BLF. She does not point but is turning into a hunting machine. Have hunted with 2 different pointing labs. Quite a different experience. Sounds like yours turned out well. Good luck


Meleagris1 said:


> Just a follow up on this thread - my pup is now 3 years old. Took him out for pheasants yesterday and shot 9 - he locked up or pointed on every single one. I guess he's in the 7-10%. It was a fun hunt!


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Cub, thanks for the background info on your dogs. My guy took a second in his first Q and we will be running him this year in opens. Like you I've never seen this in any of our training, he is as hard charging a dog as I've seen which is why this surprised me. Hunted ducks all season and he did great. Try not to hunt pheasants too much because I feel like their standards slip a little due to all the action. Was surprised when he pointed the first bird, but was really in shock seeing him do it again and again. It was nice because the snow had beat down a lot of the cover and this prevented runners.

Quack I was hunting at the Austerlitz Club in Columbia County, we have about 600 acres for bird hunting.


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## Paul Frey (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks for getting back to me. Looked the place up. Very nice club, but out of my price range. For now I will stick with preserves. Thanks again.


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## metalone67 (Apr 3, 2009)

Doc E said:


> It is estimated that between 7% and 10% of Labs from *non*-pointing pedigrees will show a natural (genetic) point.
> 
> 
> 
> .


My take on that is that's a lab that has a hard time trusting their nose.


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## Jere (Dec 22, 2007)

deanlange said:


> my 4 month old does the same thing but instead of objects she stalks my other labs. My 11 year old will allow the occasional pounce but the 4 year is not having anything to do with it. I hear an occasional yelp when the 4 year old gets pounced.


Play solicitation - probably not a "point."

Jere


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## Jere (Dec 22, 2007)

Meleagris1 said:


> Just curious how normal it is to have a lab pup "stalk" something that is thrown for it. I can't say that I have ever seen it before, but I've only owned two labs. About half the time I throw something for my 9 week old pup, he will slowly stalk it, or sometimes even stop with his tail straight out like he is on a point. Then he will pounce on the item. His concentration while doing this is quite impressive, as is his "point" with his tail perfectly straight. The other half of the time he will charge right after what I throw. Any thoughts about this?


At this age it could be any of several behaviors, only one being a natural point. You haven't told us enough, and may not have observed closly enough, to lead toward or away from natural point.

If you see this behavior later on real live birds and the dog is a bold, strongly searching one it is more likely a true point. Then you could think about steadying him (develop steady manners on birds). 

A cooperative, steady, naturally pointing Lab that searches at ranges consistent with pointing dog standards (not necessarily all age FT range) suitable to the nature of the cover and bird density can be a joy to hunt with. I enjoyed seven or eight years with the dog in my avatar and below hunting ptarmigan, chukar, desert quail, Huns etc. from near the Arctic Circle in Alaska to Arizona and New Mexico until hemangeosarcoma too soon took him from me in 2010.




























He died, bleeding out internally in my arms, on July 4, 2010, 2 1/2 months after the last photo was taken. He was still a strong, hard hunting, puppy spirited dog; had been my best friend ever and was the victim of a terrible incureable disease.

I'd hoped a stronger point might have been developed in the field after ten more years of breeding. In my 150,000 miles of travels I'd encountered MANY more so-called PLs from some of the most known kennels which did not point than did. When I found a breeding of titled parents with impressive FT and APLA predigrees (a different kennel though) I gambled on a replacement puppy. He hasn't pointed anything in his nearly three years and even shows some signs of timidity of live birds. He's terribly hard mouthed and quite the singer when riding in the truck!

Be careful if you're a buyer!

Jere


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Jere, my original post was three years ago - check out my update on page 2. He's a QAA dog now, very bold no fear of anything, and on our last two pheasant hunts he pointed all his birds, unless they ran and then he chased them. I've never seen even a hint of this behavior while training or running trials, duck or goose hunting etc. I personally wouldn't be interested in labs bred to point, but this was a nice FT breeding that produced this guy. Just a nice bonus!


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## Jere (Dec 22, 2007)

Meleagris1 said:


> Jere, my original post was three years ago - check out my update on page 2. He's a QAA dog now, very bold no fear of anything, and on our last two pheasant hunts he pointed all his birds, unless they ran and then he chased them. I've never seen even a hint of this behavior while training or running trials, duck or goose hunting etc. I personally wouldn't be interested in labs bred to point, but this was a nice FT breeding that produced this guy. Just a nice bonus!


I picked upon that after my first post. I wondered when I saw your "three years ago post!" By that time I was deep into my efforts and felt, since others had seemed miss it too and there appeared to be interest I'd just finish and hope my contribution helped someone.

Congratulations on his progress and the information that you've suffered no ill effects stemming from his innate point!!

Would you mind elaborating on a couple of things?

Is he steady on his birds - Does he hold point until you release him - perhaps after the shot bird has fallen? Bird dog folks would call that steady to wing, shot and fall (SWS) or (SWS&F) and it would seem to be essential upland manners for a retriever FT competitor. I ask because I'd suspect lack of "finished bird dog manners" in the uplands would carry over into the FT line manners of the dog. 

How does he range in the uplands? Is he essentially in gun range all the time or does he get out away from you and cover ground you'd have to go out of your way walking to get him into. 

You mentioned hunting pheasants and his chasing birds that run. Is this behavior you want? Does it produce birds for you? If No to the second ? there may be some things you can do to help.

Jere


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## Jere (Dec 22, 2007)

crackerd said:


> Define "Lab stalking" or "Lab pointing" a thrown object.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Michael, that looks like rear leg injuries waiting for time and place to manifest!

Jere


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## Meleagris1 (Dec 10, 2010)

Well I just came across this post again and now that my guy is 6 years old I figured I would give an update for what it's worth. This dog is a real handful, very high drive in my opinion and that of training partners who have many dogs under their belts including AFCs. I primarily waterfowl hunt with him and it takes a lot of work to keep him steady and quiet in blinds and boats, most days he wears me out as he is constantly pushing the envelope. However since his second year of hunting he has pointed on upland birds without fail and he absolutely will not break even when I give him the OK. Usually when I do this he will pound the ground with his front feet but then stay locked on unless the bird runs. Just had another wonderful hunt with him today and he pointed every bird beautifully. Ironically it's his drive and difficulty in steadying that have been his Achilles heel in FT training. We did get him QAA in his first trail at 2 but unfortunately have only run him in one other trial since then because myself and my partners felt that despite all the training he just wasn't 100% ready for opens. Maybe this year will be the year!!


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

The dog is 6 yrs old now. At least the one in the original post is.


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## wetdog (May 2, 2010)

In reading this, Abby did the same "stalking" thing as a pup. She even pointed an occasional pheasant or quail when she was young. Now at eight, she never points birds, but will still stalk and point ground squirrels! She sneaks on them like a cat would and will point for a long, long time when she gets close. I have always had my fingers crossed that whatever field trial I am going to, there are not a bunch of ground squirrels on the grounds! I am not sure the judges would be impressed with a squirrel point on the way to a mark ;-).


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