# Age to Introduce E-collar?



## pmspinnerb8 (Dec 15, 2003)

I have a lab pup that is 16 weeks. He isn't ready for conditioning yet, but is starting to display a few unwanted behaviors. He is scratching at the back door to being let back in, digging, etc. I'll tell him "No!" which he understands and will stop for a couple of minutes and then starts again. I'd like to nip it in the bud before I have a real problem on my hands. I am not set on e-collar, I know it isn't always the answer, so if you have other suggestions of what to do please let me know. Thank you all.


----------



## Stephen Hooper (Sep 27, 2007)

I would use your crate more often and not let him have so much freedom. Spend more time getting him out and walking him on a collar and lead. Start your obedience with sit, then here and so forth. I wouldn't start using the collar until you finish force fetch.


----------



## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

The E-Collar is not a tool to be used in the manner you are describing. E-Collars are to be used to reinforce known commands. Usually sit, here, and Go! 

No is not one of these types of commands. No is universal, it means stop what you are doing. It can create a lot of confusion in the dog because he doesn't always know why you are yelling no. For example, Fido jumps up on your neighbor, you yell No! he isn't so sure so he tries it again in a few minutes and you think he's being bad so you burn his ass up with the collar and get a scared crappy dog. OR, Fido jumps on your neighbor, you say Sit! He has been taught what sit means, so you can reinforce the sit command with the collar and demand that Fido obey without creating confusion and burning the dog for nothing; you get a good obedient dog. All of this assumes proper collar conditioning.

If you understand this reasoning you understand why the collar cannot be used to stop digging, scratching to be let in etc.

He's probably digging from boredom, and scratching to be let in because he wants to be with you. So get him plenty of exercise and let him in the damn house. LOL

My credentials to answer this question are that I speak fluent Spanish and am extremely well endowed.

Edit: If you try to use the collar to stop your dog from a diggin and a scratchin you a gonna ruin that dog.


----------



## Stephen Hooper (Sep 27, 2007)

Extremely Well Endowed!! That right there is funny!!


----------



## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

Dogs can break habits pretty quick
I wouldn't worry about it to now. In a month or so you can post it up again and I'll share with you a quick ,,fullproof way to fix it in seconds
But give it a month or so. I would suggest you start letting the pup wear the e collar a few hours a day to prepare the dog and prevent an association with the collar

Pete


----------



## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

Stephen Hooper said:


> Extremely Well Endowed!! That right there is funny!!


I got a scholarship to go to college, it was called an endowment. I always thought that was what the girls meant when they said I was well endowed. My great-grandaddy was a horse thief. Everybody said he was hung about a mule or sumthin like that. I was a little boy when I heard the older ladies down to the church talkin bout him, so I might not be rememberin zactly right.


----------



## pmspinnerb8 (Dec 15, 2003)

Thanks for the input, that is what I needed to know. I was very hesitant to try the collar for bad habits, hence the post. The dog does live in the house and spends time in a crate. He is walked and working obedience (sit, down, here, etc.) and a few retrieves daily so I feel I am doing things right, This is not my first rodeo, just been a long time since I've had a pup. I know the e-collar is a great tool in the right hands and I understand the conditioning part, there just was not a whole lot out there on using it for bad habits so I wanted to make sure. Thanks.


----------



## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

Sure. My dog lives in the house, gets worked every day, and he still ate the wires to my satellite dish when I left him out alone. I think some things just are. When I can't watch him he goes in the crate. You can buy new satellitre dish wires at wal mart in case you ever need any. Cost you about $28.00 to learn that lesson.

I have found that this sort of thing really improves after the dog is about 18 months to two years old. Till then keep yer shoes put up.


----------



## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

Although I never got an endowment, I have been training with e-collars for a very long time. What you wrote is partly correct you shouldn't use the collar to break digging and such. However you don't let them get away with it. When the dog is digging or what ever> you simply give a command they are already conditioned to. Come will usually work for me in most instances;0) 

Jamie Genereux 
www.packleader.net


----------



## twoduckdogs (Jan 12, 2009)

the earlier the better but it all depends on the dog and the obedience training of the dog and temperment of the dog i usually try to get my dogs wearing the collar at about 6 months and cut it on about 12 months.


----------



## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

We put the collar on as soon as they are big enough to hold the receiver up. We start them off by getting them to respond to the tone the same way you would use a clicker. We teach them to come from a distance using the tone. The same way Pavlov's dog was trained to a dinner bell. We also use it for sit, down, and any other commands you train a young dog with a clicker. When the dog is five or six months old we get rid of the food we used during the conditioning faze and bring in the correction faze. If you did the initial conditioning right the dog should already have plenty of drive and focus on the handler and obey the tone 90% of the time. Then we start with a tone followed by a correction until we eliminate the tone altogether. By the time they are 12 months old they are already fully trained and conditioned. Using the tone with early training helps teach the dog to respond to a stimulus better. They also learn that the collar is a great source of fun. it lets them known when its time for treats. When my dogs hear the sound of a collar turning on they all come running for joy. We never use high levels and "Burn a Dog" under any circumstances. Its not used as a punishment tool, its used as a communications tool, like the tone was used for in the beginning. if they don't respond for something we are trying to train them we set the problem up different, we don't turn the collar up. Always keep it about communication and not punishment and you will have a great dog that loves the collar. Try to force them to comply with it and you will ruin a dog, it doesn't matter if they know the command or not. Set them up for success and be patient not forceful.

Jamie Genereux
www.packleader.net


----------



## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

I didn't mean to imply that you should let him get away with digging. But I don't think you can use the collar to break it. I mean you COULD...but should you? I don't think so.

I do burn my dog with the collar. It is meant to be an aversive stimulus. I try to always do it fairly. I have not always succeeded at that in the past, but we improve with experience. (I have no credentials, I do have experience)

Respectfully to packleader, I disagree with your training philosophy.

I teach the dog until I am sure he knows what I want. I have taught him that compliance removes the stimulus (collar conditioning). I use the collar to give the dog a sense of obligation to obey a known command the way he has been taught. I read my dog, if I read that he is confused or unsure, I teach and don't burn. If I read a lack of effort or disobedience to a command I burn. 

When I say burn, I don't mean that I shock him hard enough to turn him a flip. I use the least amount of pressure that changes his behavior. It doesn't literally burn him. I have burned myself so that I know what it feels like. 


i don't believe you can get your dog to run a good blind without doing it that way (force). We are asking him to do something which isn't natural. If you don't use the collar you have to use something else less effective which subjects the dog to more confusion and stress in training. The beauty of the collar is that it provides instant correction to the dog, eliminating confusion and speeding up training and is much more kind to that dog than spending months teaching the same thing with mistimed correction because you think a little electricity is barbaric. If you think electricity is barbaric you should have seen the way I did it before collars when I had to chase him down.That could get ugly in a hurry.

But as long as people have been anthropomorphizing animals I think I'm wasting my breath.


----------



## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

That's a good theory but dogs were running blind before the e-collar was ever invented. Many bird dog trainers still do great without it.


----------



## PackLeader (Jan 12, 2009)

Once a dog is properly conditioned you can use the collar for trash breaking, digging, and any avoidance training. SAR dog trainers have been using collars for rattlesnake breaking for years.

Jamie Genereux
www.packleader.net


----------



## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

There's no limit what you can do with an e collar
You can probably cook hot dogs with it too.
Pete


----------

