# FC AFC red fox stud



## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Hi all,

I have been all over my good friend that own a very talented, well bread and very nice looking very dark female to breed her, her name
NMH Dandesg Fanny MH 
(FC AFC AFTCH Money Talk II X 2xNMH 2xGMH Yeller Yellow Bear (FC FTCH AFTCH Seaside One To Many X FTCH AFTCH Moira River Maddy)).

My good friend do not speak a word english and he ask me to find him best FC AFC title red fox stud, #75+ or one that throw red fox.......not many around.

I'm asking you guys your opinion on this.......

I think that FC AFC Teddy's Ebonstar James would make an outstanding dog for Fanny, i have made litter pedigree and it sure look great.

Thanks for your support,


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## Timd (Aug 3, 2012)

I watched a dog named scooter, run a couple of weeks back and was very impressed. He is out of black ice retrievers and is QAA at this point.


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

Not an FC/AFC, but probably will be come, and a very nice dog is Charlie Hays' dog Gunstock's Topshelf Snap Decision "Snapper." He's a clear/clear dog, very dark yellow and a pretty nice pedigree. Looking at EE, if all placements have been Am handled, he should be an AFC and has an open win and 7 total open points.

http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=64893

http://www.findretrievers.com/search/individualdog.php?ID=1001662


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## Mike Peters-labguy23 (Feb 9, 2003)

Snapper is a great looking dog and is a AFC now.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Money Talks II is in your neck of the woods, Maine I think.

In Illinois, our own Justice dog has one. Can't remember his name though.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Howard N said:


> Money Talks II is in your neck of the woods, Maine I think.
> 
> In Illinois, our own Justice dog has one. Can't remember his name though.


 Looks like the female in question- is sired by him already.


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## JKOttman (Feb 3, 2004)

Snapper has 23 AA pts, 7 Open pts (including an Open win), 16 Am pts. He's 5.5 years old out of FC-AFC Hunting Hills Coriander ex Cougars Goin for Alleyoopmgp MH.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Howard N said:


> Money Talks II is in your neck of the woods, Maine I think.
> 
> In Illinois, our own Justice dog has one. Can't remember his name though.


Medal of Honor QAA - Valor - grandson of FC AFC Teddy's Ebonstar James


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

He isnt a "fox red" but he is one heck of a dog and just won a DoubleHeader this weekend and thats FC AFC Suncrest Quinoa (Keno)..he can mark with the best of them and he is Amateur trained and handled....come from a good bloodline I think he is a TNT grandson...good looking dog too


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## Purpledawg (Jul 16, 2006)

Another who has produced fox red's and is a dark yellow himself. AFC Buck N Poncho. He is pictured here with pedigree:
http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=25256


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## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Thanks all for you support


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## DEN/TRU/CRU (May 29, 2007)

BonMallari said:


> He isnt a "fox red" but he is one heck of a dog and just won a DoubleHeader this weekend and thats FC AFC Suncrest Quinoa (Keno)..he can mark with the best of them and he is Amateur trained and handled....come from a good bloodline I think he is a TNT grandson...good looking dog too


I'll second on Keno! My Cruger is a litter mate to Keno and is dark yellow with tinges of red. The litter produce several good looking, talented dogs.


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## RJW (Jan 8, 2012)

Alain, I sent you a PM about Scooter. He has been with Remi's trainer off and on for a little while now and just got done taking him to The Grand.


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## ze6464 (Jun 25, 2010)

I would look at Traveler to breed to. If she is dark yellow then I would say there is a possibility of throwing fox red pup. If not you are still breeding to a very nice stud.


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## Nick Toti (Feb 3, 2011)

Scooter is QAA and he points!


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## Scott Adams (Jun 25, 2003)

Hi Alain.
i have to wonder if a dark yellow dog is likely to throw dark yellow puppies. 
I think you could get all shades of yellow. 
You or someone else would know more about it than I.
Scott.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Scott Adams said:


> You or someone else would know more about it than I.
> Scott.


Just FYI Cuz I'm a genetic junky

Breeders of "true fox reds" will quickly point out that some yellow Labs professed to be "fox-red" are really more dark tan than red and are therefore, not "true fox-reds". The difference in concentration of red color (determined by the "ay" or "as" allele of the A locus) is dependent upon the alleles at the C locus. The "C" allele allows for full expression and intensity of red tones, while the "cch" allele will dilute the red to a clear tan color.

Therefore, the genotype of each color variation is:

ay_B_ C_ee = True Fox-Red
as_B_C_ee * = True Fox-Red with Saddling**

ay_B_ cch _ee = Pseudo Fox-Red
as_B_cch_ee = Pseudo Fox-Red with Saddling**

* the underline denotes that the gene locus may be homozygous or heterozygous with a less dominant allele present at the partner-chromosome gene locus
** Labs with this genotype demonstrate the red coloring localized to certain areas of the body.

The "as" allele produces the "saddling effects" seen in many yellows in which there appears darker yellow pigmentation on the back,
ears, legs, etc. compared to areas of light yellow on the shoulders, neck, and underside. The "as" allele also increases intensity of phaeomelanin, but restricts its production to the former mentioned areas on the Lab. 

The observation that there appears to be no solid fox-red or solid "pseudo" fox-red Labs may be explained by Little's hypothesis that the combination of an "ay" in a homozygous "e" (yellow) dog is lethal. If Little's hypothesis is correct, then this would mean that all fox-red or "pseudo" fox-red Labs must be: as_B_C_ee or as_B_cch_ee, respectively.

Also 
1. Not an FC-AFC but, have heard good things about his pups; 4XGMPR HRCH HRK's Rooster Smasher Of TGK MH QAA
http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=47687

2. The Darkest Fox Red Dogs; I've ever seen have been in the HRC venue, for some reason they seem to gravitate to that venue more than other ones, not sure if they have separate lines or not, but it might be why Money Talk II is one of the UKC best producing sires.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

I sure do like AFC Snapper.


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## Bryan Manning (May 22, 2005)

This is a client dog and not for stud yet but he is sired by FC riparian windfall. Probably not going to get all reds but all shades. But Ricky throws some nice puppies.










"Buster" QAA at 20m


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## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Like mention before, lot will call a red fox while the dog is dark ylw.
To me, to call a dog red fox he have to be all one shade red color. 
But some seemed even being dark ylw will throw red fox pup, of course dam has an impact but still, and Jamie seemed to me to throw those red pup, upon my research.

Again i thank all for your kind support....please note i'm french and my english is not perfect so excuse those bad sentences.


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

AFC Van Gogh IV frozen semen available. Great pedigree.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

BonMallari said:


> He isnt a "fox red" but he is one heck of a dog and just won a DoubleHeader this weekend and thats FC AFC Suncrest Quinoa (Keno)..he can mark with the best of them and he is Amateur trained and handled....come from a good bloodline I think he is a TNT grandson...good looking dog too


Bon,
I spoke with Arnie last fall and he told me that they aren't breeding Keno and hadn't even gotten his clearances at that point. They do, however, have a younger half brother named Suncrest Winter Rye that did very well in the derby and quals and has a couple of am placements. Very nice-looking, dark yellow. I like him a lot. Sired by Oatie out of a Quasi bitch if I remember correctly.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

Matt McKenzie said:


> Bon,
> I spoke with Arnie last fall and he told me that they aren't breeding Keno and hadn't even gotten his clearances at that point. They do, however, have a younger half brother named Suncrest Winter Rye that did very well in the derby and quals and has a couple of am placements. Very nice-looking, dark yellow. I like him a lot. Sired by Oatie out of a Quasi bitch if I remember correctly.


Ryley is Linda's dog and she put about 30 + derby points on him, and he is now QAA and might even have a couple of AA points....but then last fall Keno wasnt a DH winner either...Oatie was one of my favorites, would have like a dog from him from never seemed to get the right connections to suit our needs


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## meat hunter (Oct 4, 2007)

I personally have never cared for fox red yellows but having watched Hayes' snapper on several occasons I have to say he is one of the most handsome animals I have ever seen. He is built like what every lab should look like and is a hard charging talented dog!!! Ed K


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## Steve Strong (Jan 14, 2013)

Don't hate on the Red Dog


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

Mike Peters-labguy23 said:


> Snapper is a great looking dog and is a AFC now.


I agree with posts on Snapper. Very talented dog, nicely built, and has the dark coat you desire.


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## Alain (Dec 9, 2005)

Look like Snapper is a talented dog.
Thanks all!


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## robert stoeberl (Jul 29, 2009)

i just had a litter 2 weeks ago out of snapper! the Hays are great people!!! 
have some for sale!


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

If you like FC AFC Teddy's Ebonstar James I think there is some straws of his frozen left. I would suggest you get ahold of Steve and Emily Faith to check for yourself. I have a 12 year old Jamie son that has been an absolutely nice dog.


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## deadriver (Mar 9, 2005)

Does anyone have the contact info for breeding to Snapper?


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## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

2007 I bred my light colored Darla to Copper (money talks). I got red, light ones, and combo ones.. Van and Jen are awesome to work with and I am super happy with my pup Spanky. She is red, and I have bred her a couple weeks ago to Poncho whose owner is also awesome to work with. Good luck with whoever you choose to go with


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## Bug (Feb 6, 2005)

Alain,

Several years ago I breed Dolly, light yellow to Jamie. There were 10 pups, 5 fox red males and 5 light yellow females. Lost track of most of the pups, but I have seen one grow up to be a nice looking fox red.


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