# Heeling stick



## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

It's a snowy day and we're not out training... Which is to say that I have way to much time on my hands and my mind is sort of idling in neutral. 

FedEx just rang the bell to announce the delivery of an Avery heeling stick I'd ordered. And it occurred to me that I'd never used a _stick_ to teach a dog to heel. Indeed it's usefulness for heeling a dog is rather limited. And then I thought about the ways I've used a heeling stick with the inevitable conclusion that "heeling stick" is a huge misnomer. So what other names might it have?

Correction stick: Nope... that's a cosmetic women use under their eyes to hide dark circles.

Inducer stick: Sounds sinister

Communication wand: Male trainers would never buy one. They'd rather hack a branch off a tree or something. 

E-collar substitution device: Ungainly. Too many syllables. Not terribly accurate

Amish training aid: close

No-no stick: _meh_

Arm extender: Hmmm

Any other suggestions? (Besides get out with the dogs in spite of the weather.)


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## Bill Stoune (Jul 18, 2011)

SIT stick , that is what my training partner calls it!!


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## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

If all you're using the stick for is sit then you're missing out on a ton of its value.


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## Cayuga Dew (Nov 30, 2014)

Force Stick / Forcing Stick is what I observe it to be used for primarily. (Sit, Walking Force Fetch)


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## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

Majority of people don't know how to use sticks anyway....best thing to do is let them in the truck or better yet at home....Randy


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

1tulip said:


> Arm extender: Hmmm)


Ayup,
all it does is make 1 arm 3 feet longer than the other. Good for lovin' as well as thumpin'
and if you see a dog shy off of the stick they are gonna be afeared of the handlers hand as well.


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## Tony C (Jul 17, 2010)

Very well put Ken


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

If you don't know how to use a heeling stick, don't abandon such a wonderful tool, learn about it and keep it with you all the time. It's not complicated, and is great for pressure conditioning and correcting at your side. It also allows you to use the collar less in those areas. You can make a better one than you can buy, and do it for under $20.

Evan


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## Gauge123 (Dec 3, 2012)

I'd be interested in seeing a design for that home made Heeling Stick Evan.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Evan... too late. I paid $32 for this one. What's your design?


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## nogie1717 (Sep 15, 2014)

Evan said:


> If you don't know how to use a heeling stick, don't abandon such a wonderful tool, learn about it and keep it with you all the time. It's not complicated, and is great for pressure conditioning and correcting at your side. It also allows you to use the collar less in those areas. You can make a better one than you can buy, and do it for under $20.
> 
> Evan


Can you point me to some good resources on uses for the heeling stick? I've found a little here on RTF and some on YouTube, but nothing comprehensive. Right now, it's mostly a sit stick with some use on tapping my pup back when heeling.


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## jerod (May 2, 2011)

Pex pipe golf club grip and some soapy water= heeling stick.


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## Cayuga Dew (Nov 30, 2014)

Randy Bohn said:


> Majority of people don't know how to use sticks anyway....best thing to do is let them in the truck or better yet at home....Randy


Randy - I want to know how to properly use a heeling stick. The same could be said of an ecollar or choke chain, correct?
My beginner understanding is that the heeling stick, should be carried during pre-basic and during basics like a dummy ecollar is worn. The heeling stick should be used to pet the dog as introduction (multiple times in sessions) and never used as a correction / force tool until basics, such as formal obedience is taught and learned with choke collar etc. Once Basics are learned, introduce the stick for sit, as an extension of the choke chain. No big wind ups, to cause a bad habit such as flaring etc. After FF, introduce stick fetch etc.(I am typing this on my iPhone, which is a pain, so I am abridging this a little.)
Am I on the right track to understand some of the correct use of a heeling stick?


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

1tulip said:


> Evan... too late. I paid $32 for this one. What's your design?


Buy his program for $199.99 and he will tell you...


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

Tony Marshall said:


> If all you're using the stick for is sit then you're missing out on a ton of its value.


 Hi Tony, 

I'm guessing that I'm Bill's training partner that he references. 

Especially, back in my Amish days pre-Lardy material, I was a big follower of James B. Spencer's stuff in the magazines and books. In honor of Mr. Spencer, I still call it a "sit stick" to this day. I tend to agree with 1Tulip as I've never felt I used it all that frequently for heeling corrections.

I'd say with my current lab, if I were to label it *for its most frequent use* it would be called either a "head swinging stick" or a "because I'm training my dog, therefore it's in my hand stick".  I've read Ken Bora's commentary about it being simply an extension of your arm and I agree with that 100%. 

(In fact, Ken Bora himself was the one who pointed out, correctly, that in the Jim Harvey image that's my avatar, my sit stick and my transmitter are in the wrong (opposite) hands that they should be!)

Tony, did you read 1tulip's question? Mr. Stoune was just trying to answer her question. ;-)


-Chris


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## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> I'm guessing that I'm Bill's training partner that he references.
> 
> ...


Hi Chris, 

I did not mean to offend anyone. I was just simply making an observation that most people in general including the majority in this thread alluded to the fact that they only used the stick for stick to sit corrections.

I believe that if stick to sit corrections are all you are using the stick for you are missing out on a ton of its value. I am a big fan of the stick for obedience and also line corrections later on. I believe that the use of the stick prevents over collar stimulating. For example during FTP would use stick for line manners collar for enroute force.

I use the stick to teach multiple things. Flipping around to heel, heeling backwards, prevention of forging ahead while walking at heel, not flaring on the return to front finish, and of course sit just to name a few. I don't come to the line in training from obedience on without a stick on my person.

So while I completely agree that it probably should be called a "sit stick" based on the predominant use, I would probably call it a "multipurpose behavior modifier".

Tony


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

I've always called it a whipstick


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

Here's a link to a brief description of it.

https://www.facebook.com/evan.graham.547

Evan


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Yes, we are working on line manners, reinforcing what she's already learned. Sit quietly. 

I am a klutz however, and I have to have my whistle and transmitter in my right hand (whistle perched on my pinky, held only an inch from my lips, one finger on each button), my left hand to put down and send the dog, and my third hand to hold the stick in readiness... and a fourth hand with her lead ready if we need to heel her off line. 

By the end of training, I've usually lost my stick, transmitter, lead and/or car keys at least once. 

No kidding, each item has some garish color nail polish on it, or orange ribbon tied to it so I can find it in the dust and weeds.

The dog is learning much faster than I am. Very grateful to training partners and pro for their patience.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

1tulip said:


> Yes, we are working on line manners, reinforcing what she's already learned. Sit quietly.
> 
> I am a klutz however, and I have to have my whistle and transmitter in my right hand (whistle perched on my pinky, held only an inch from my lips, one finger on each button), my left hand to put down and send the dog, and my third hand to hold the stick in readiness... and a fourth hand with her lead ready if we need to heel her off line.
> 
> ...


Stick should be in the hand that you use to send the dog, usually--at least in the hand that is on the same side as the dog. Keep stick in your hand to send dog. some folks put the transmitter and stick in the same hand--I do mostly but that is less important. Put whistle in your mouth.


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## Evan (Jan 5, 2003)

DoubleHaul said:


> Stick should be in the hand that you use to send the dog, usually--at least in the hand that is on the same side as the dog. Keep stick in your hand to send dog. some folks put the transmitter and stick in the same hand--I do mostly but that is less important. Put whistle in your mouth.


Got it! 

Evan


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

You put your hand down to send the dog with the stick in it?


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

MooseGooser said:


> You put your hand down to send the dog with the stick in it?


Here's a picture of Brady doing it.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

The pictures help. Thank you. I'll give that a try. 

Training partners accused me of garbled send when whistle was in my mouth. Maybe I should try walking around the house with the whistle in my mouth practicing talking around it (without drooling too much.) In any event, with this 4-legged rocket... the whistle cannot be dangling on a lanyard somewhere. With her milliseconds matter a LOT.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

DoubleHaul said:


> Stick should be in the hand that you use to send the dog, usually--at least in the hand that is on the same side as the dog. Keep stick in your hand to send dog. some folks put the transmitter and stick in the same hand--I do mostly but that is less important. Put whistle in your mouth.


Trying to visualize this. Do you have the dexterity to actually activate (push the buttons on) the transmitter if (for example) you need a quick whistle and the dog slips it?


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

1tulip said:


> Trying to visualize this. Do you have the dexterity to actually activate (push the buttons on) the transmitter if (for example) you need a quick whistle and the dog slips it?


I have practiced talking with the whistle in my mouth. I have been known to get a little lazy but generally transmitter is in hand ready to push buttons, whistle is in mouth and stick is ready to go. It does take practice. Stick is a wrist movement, not a big wind up. I used to have both transmitter and stick in one hand like in the videos but probably more often transmitter is in my off hand with stick (and training tab, if using) in dog side hand like in Chris' picture. If, when it is time to send, you fumble around or move tab to other hand or whatever, that is probably good. A dog that needs all that at the ready should probably get used to waiting before send. You should probably put your hand down and hold it there for a while anyway.

Perhaps it helps being Episcopalian, so you are used to juggling the hymnal and BCP


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

I usually hold my stick in the hand on the opposite side of the my one dog. Her butt usually does not come up at the line so I hold it casually in front of me, tip on the ground near my feet, and would use it to tap her chest or front legs if she started to creep---it is amazing how far they can go without actually seeming to move their legs. If she is excited and lurching ahead of me on the way to the line I tap her chest or front legs. When dog was first learning all this, I used the stick to help guide her---as if it were a physical barrier.

If I am anticipating a slow sit or that her butt is going to come up, I hold the stick behind me, pointed toward the sky, and tap her rump as needed---this way she does not see it coming. 

I hold the stick in one hand, and the transmitter in the other. Or maybe the transmitter is in my pocket because I am not going to be making stick and collar corrections at the same time.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

Well, I debated about whether to post on this topic (for awhile). A longer post simmered in a text file. 

Pounce began with Hillmann's program and there is no heeling stick involved. The "on/off" switch has been established, her "stable sit" is solid and we just began angle back casts. Pounce is nine months old and ready for yard work (if this "dang" winter will just give it up). 

Pounce has *never seen a heeling stick*.


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## Mountain Duck (Mar 7, 2010)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Here's a picture of Brady doing it.


I can't tell from the small pic....is that a Tritronics G3 transmitter with the stick or a long neck!?


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## Gauge123 (Dec 3, 2012)

What if we design an LTD (Linear Training Device, AKA-Stick) that will attach to a TriTronics 500?

There are several engineers on this sight.


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## coachjhall11 (Feb 2, 2015)

1 1/4 inch pvc tubing from home depot. Put a golf grip on one end for handle and cut to fit for your own height to reach dog.


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## jackh (Oct 14, 2010)

I obviously fall in the category that doesn't know how to correctly know how to use it. I have just used mine for praise and sit. Any good articles someone could link on how to use it otherwise? 

My dog sometimes shys from the stick, making me think I have used too much pressure in the past. If I go out of my way during training to praise with it, he doesn't shy and pays no attention to it. He never shys from my hand though.


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## Criquetpas (Sep 14, 2004)

You have to have dog "master the stick" stroke him with it, let them carry it around so it is not the evil thingy. When you put a e-collar on the dog, mine do anyway, get excited time to work. The stick can be used to do a release in the hand when you send dog, it can be a prevention of a dog going too far forward gently tapping the chest area while heeling. You might find if you have a crooked sit dog, tapping on the opposite side , may correct to a straight sit. Of course the old tap on the butt on the line to correct a dog not sitting. Can also be used to force a shot shell out of a popper gun barrel if long enough. I don't do perfect World, most of the time it maybe in my back pocket or through my belt,but, always available. What you don't want to do is a wind up, strike from opposite hand as dog sees you, sure way to make a dog stick shy...Can also be used by second party to gently tap dog standing behind, even for force fetch (two man fetching drill, Rex Carr) don't hit the handler with the dog, happens sometimes. If one has anger management issues I think the person should leave the stick alone, unless you want to whip yourself into some perverted sort of compliance. OR as Randy suggested just forget about the stick , especially if you can't chew gum and walk or feel to have a need for it as it is in the Lardy DVD's as a "must hold" tool !


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Randy Bohn said:


> Majority of people don't know how to use sticks anyway....best thing to do is let them in the truck or better yet at home....Randy


I would add to that if you need one you or someone has not mastered the collar or did not have sufficiently high standards on line. Mine only see one for 2 or 3 days of whip fetch and never again. Beyond that they are a relic of a bygone era in dog training or for a very specific long standing problem. I quietly chuckle when I see someone with a heeling stick in their pocket, a transmitter in their hand, and a dog that moves, gets up, or takes a step forward and the handler never does anything to correct them. I have a number of them from lightweight to heavyweight that I would happily donate to someone in need.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

Had "stick religion" when starting out with first pro and HT. My dogs were, um, naughty, to put it politely. Haven't used one but rarely in 3-4 years now. Funny, but my dogs are so much better these days. Especially at the line (no credit to me, but to the endlessly patient teacher I gladly cut a check to every month). One less thing to worry about, stick gets left in the vehicle 95% of the time. So I guess my name for a stick is dust gatherer.

To clarify, plenty of people are very successful using a stick. But it isn't the tool that makes or breaks success, it is knowledge. Better off learning to use something well and correctly than just doing something because one sees others doing it. Stick isn't a tool I care for, the majority of the time, so I don't. But occasionally, in a certain situation, I do.


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## huntinlabs (Aug 4, 2009)

EdA said:


> I would add to that if you need one you or someone has not mastered the collar or did not have sufficiently high standards on line. Mine only see one for 2 or 3 days of whip fetch and never again. Beyond that they are a relic of a bygone era in dog training or for a very specific long standing problem. I quietly chuckle when I see someone with a heeling stick in their pocket, a transmitter in their hand, and a dog that moves, gets up, or takes a step forward and the handler never does anything to correct them. I have a number of them from lightweight to heavyweight that I would happily donate to someone in need.


I might have to test your offer there as I will be getting a new pup soon (momma was bred on sunday).


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## BJGatley (Dec 31, 2011)

I think it is a great tool to use for those who are starting out, when used correctly. 
They can also be useful on dogs that are soft…IMO
Later when maturity and experience from trainers comes when reading dogs, you will find various methods that will be successful to you.
Lastly...Having a good mentor helps in those methods if you are fortunate enough to be with one. 

My 2 cents worth.


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## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

i wish i would have kept all those videos that people sent me using heeling sticks to fix the dogs noise and control issues.....entertaining but truly omg what are you doing....


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

Randy Bohn said:


> i wish i would have kept all those videos that people sent me using heeling sticks to fix the dogs noise and control issues.....entertaining but truly omg what are you doing....


Such as...?

It's Friday, we could all use some entertainment!


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## Renee P. (Dec 5, 2010)

EdA said:


> I would add to that if you need one you or someone has not mastered the collar or did not have sufficiently high standards on line. Mine only see one for 2 or 3 days of whip fetch and never again. Beyond that they are a relic of a bygone era in dog training or for a very specific long standing problem. I quietly chuckle when I see someone with a heeling stick in their pocket, a transmitter in their hand, and a dog that moves, gets up, or takes a step forward and the handler never does anything to correct them. I have a number of them from lightweight to heavyweight that I would happily donate to someone in need.


I am puzzled by this comment as I am pretty sure several A-list pros use heeling sticks in early training. Of course, perhaps these pros were using them because they were working with rank amateurs, like me, at workshops. 

Just for kicks I image googled "Danny Farmer heeling stick"...my eyes are still scarred as Gooser's infamous beach pose picture was one of the first results :shock:


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## miketuggle (Aug 21, 2014)

Jim,

We're suffering from the "dang" winter, too. I have no yard to do 'yard work' -- 14-16" of crusted-over snow. Cami slipped yesterday and slid 50-60'down the side yard like an otter. She thought it was fun -- I was scared #$%. It is sooooo dangerous with all these growing joints for a 7 month old to do some serious damage.


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## 1tulip (Oct 22, 2009)

Oh, it was gorgeous here today. Even my long-sleeved T-shirt was too warm and I had to slather on the sun block. But all of that is BAD news for us. The drought just keeps on going. We are going to dry up and blow away.


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## Ironbark (May 14, 2015)

As a novice retriever trainer I have read watched and spoke with many who have more experience than myself. Inhave found my heeling stick to be, well, the best training tool I own. It allows me to make corrections for anything within an appropriate distance, less e-collar pressure when in close and almost no choke chain corrections. With that said, I carry my stick whenever pup is with me, he has been praised with the stick, disciplined with the Sri k, scratched with the stick etc. He almost begins to jump for joy when the stick is out because he associates it with "we're going somewhere to do something!!!" I also believe that a stick correction at close distance is far more valuable than an e-collar correction. Again, I am a novice to the game and this has worked for me and my pal thus far.


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## Ironbark (May 14, 2015)

On another note, I also have a name for my heeling stick, I call it "Code Enforcement"


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