# Female dog that won't tie? Is a physical abnormality possible?



## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Experienced male and first time female. No progesterone tests done. Discharge has turned to light pink, she flags, he mounts and gets where he needs to be and increases thrusting speed and will continue doing that for 10 secs etc. If she moves just a bit he falls right out. He's swollen like he would for a normal tie or after a collection. 

This has happened 3 different times and I know its nothing to do with the male because he has successfully bred 2 other female with normal ties in the last 2 weeks (one was even in between the unsuccessful attempts with aforementioned female). I was convinced on all three attempts that they were going to be tied. 

Its not my first time breeding dogs and have been doing it for over 12 years (avg 3 litters/year or so). Ive tried to research the net with no luck. Ive never seen anything like this before and I'm skeptical that something is 'wrong' with the female, but I cant seem to figure out why they don't tie. 

Has anyone seen or experienced this?? 

Thank you 

LeRoy


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

I don't know if you've ever AI'd a bitch but if you have you know there is a "pelvic step" you have to negotiate to reach the vagina. I did a breeding a long time ago with a bitch that had a huge pelvic step. I talked to my vet at the time and he clued me in. The stud dog was an very aggressive breeder so when he couldn't seal the deal I knew I'd better call someone. We managed to get 2 ties but I had to lift the dog up off the ground and hold him in place while he made the tie. When I turned him around so they could stay tied it wasn't pretty and very noisey. But it worked and that experience didn't slow him down a bit. He was more then willing to breed her again...

That's just my experience. I would look into doing a side by side AI possibly.

FWIW

Angie


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## dreamer2385 (Jan 21, 2007)

It is possible that the area is "correct". u may have to do AI's in her case. 

maria


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

If the boy ain't knotted up he aint' tied up. Nothing to do with the bitch.
I would have help holding them together when he gets near the end so that he has time to knot or tie.
Or play Barry White as some suggested. 
Sorry i couldn't help it.;-)
Sue


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

My male is an aggressive breeder as well and Ive never experienced this issue with him before and hes been bred a fair amount (10 to 15 different females). Ive never had a problem ever getting a tie in the past. 

I was thinking the same thing also Sue, but I cant seem to figure out why he won't tie. Ive tried to hold the female, but he won't even try to mount her then. We have done one side by side AI and will probably do another.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2011)

Did the vet do an exam to see if she may have a stricture?

A Google search will bring up plenty of info on this including this:

http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/cannine noninfection _2.htm


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> Did the vet do an exam to see if she may have a stricture?
> 
> A Google search will bring up plenty of info on this including this:
> 
> http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/cannine noninfection _2.htm


Going to the vet is a good idea.... ;-)

Angie


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

No vet appt yet, but that will more than likely be done. I do not own the female. What search words did you use? I had no luck finding anything of significance.

Thank again for all the help


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

Sniper,
Sir,
I have no doubt your male is an experienced breeder. But that gal thinks he's done and well no knot no tie.
Then "IF" your boy doesn't like *you* helping than you'll have to do an AI.
Have you ever had him collected for even testing??
That's on you as his pimp (if you will)
Making sure that his plumbing is working correctly (no infections, sperm count is good, )
My advise is consult the Vet. in your area, collect him,and when getting your next "Stud Dog' get him used to you being "there" (in the momment)in case anyone needs help.
Soooooo many things can happen sometimes during a normal breeding "If" left unsupervised. protecting both your boy and the visiting lady.
Sometimes the uterus can be tipped too.
Hope this helps.
Sue


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## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

Angie B said:


> Going to the vet is a good idea.... ;-)
> 
> Angie


Read my mind ;-)


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Hes never been collected for testing purposes, but has only has one unsuccessful breeding and the female got to me too late. Average sized litters. I know things can change soon, but he just sired a litter of 9 pups born Feb 8th. 

I always supervise the breeding. I wouldn't even consider not doing so. 

Thanks again for the info. I am going to suggest a vet appt for the female. We will do another side by side AI.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Yes, it's not uncommon. She may have a "step" or a "mountain" and the male either needs to "learn" how to go up and over or you need to elevate him on a platform to give him a better angle, but then I said I wasn't going to reply to these theads anymore so carry on.


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

ErinsEdge said:


> Yes, it's not uncommon. She may have a "step" or a "mountain" and the male either needs to "learn" how to go up and over or you need to elevate him on a platform to give him a better angle, but then I said I wasn't going to reply to these theads anymore so carry on.



Thank you Nancy, Angie, Melanie, Sue, Maria 

LeRoy


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2011)

Sniper said:


> No vet appt yet, but that will more than likely be done. I do not own the female. What search words did you use? I had no luck finding anything of significance.
> 
> Thank again for all the help


Sorry, should have included that: vaginal stricture canine

One other possibility. We has a bitch who had an "s-shaped" vaginal canal. To make matters more confusing, it could be different on any given day. 

For her first litter, she was bred naturally twice. No problem.

Second litter was done using frozen semen. That was when the s-shape was discovered. A very experience repro specialist could not do a transcervical AI without putting her anesthesia which allowed the canal to relax and thus the semination was able to be done.

Third litter we tried natural again and despite his best efforts, the poor stud dog could not get a tie. We did a side by side vaginal AI and yes, the "s" was there but were able to inseminate without anesthesia or ever a sedative.

Hope this helps.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2011)

ErinsEdge said:


> Yes, it's not uncommon. She may have a "step" or a "mountain" and the male either needs to "learn" how to go up and over or you need to elevate him on a platform to give him a better angle, but then I said I wasn't going to reply to these theads anymore so carry on.


But Nancy, he is actually listening so it's OK!


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Melanie Foster said:


> But Nancy, he is actually listening so it's OK!



Always! It not my first rodeo!


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

It just happened with the last couple of breedings with my own stud-even though they look right it just wasn't happening so we put him on a platform and before you could blink an eye he was in and having a cigarette. You can use mats or rugs too. I have also had females with strictures come in or they were very small and an AI needed to be done. I usually tell people to have the vet do an examine before breeding. One was anatomically small and she had problems birthing and probably shouldn't have been bred.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2011)

We had one with an inverted vulva she could not be bred natural


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

We tried to breed a bitch a few years ago -- she was a pretty big girl, this was her fourth breeding having been bred naturally before and whelped all litters naturally. Well Fisher tried and tried and TRIED and I know was getting in the target but no tie. We took her to the vet for AI, when the vet had her hind end up on the table to inseminate she said the AI tube practically fell in to the vaginal tract, the bitch was SOOOOO big. We had a big laugh about "loose women" but the vet said that was the problem. 
So there ya go.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

Sniper said:


> Thank you Nancy, Angie, Melanie, Sue, Maria
> 
> LeRoy


I notice that it's the human females that have the answers 



.


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## RetrieverLuvr (Jun 28, 2010)

I had a friend have the same issue with her bitch. Turned out the Bitch had a tumor and that was why they couldn't tie. She was spayed, tumor removed and all is well now.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

Melanie Foster said:


> But Nancy, he is actually listening so it's OK!


Sniper has been around a while hence my help.... Plus his/her question was genuine with some obvious fore thought.

Somewhat of a novelty now a days.

Angie


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Thanks again for the help. There's always someone else somewhere its seems "who's been there and done that"


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Update. 

Went to vet today. Sperm look good. Did check of female and he couldn't feel anything different that would prohibit a tie or make it more difficult. We did a side by side AI and took blood for progesterone test.


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## Sue Kiefer (Mar 4, 2006)

Sperm
1.)motility (are the boys swimming in one direction or spinning in circles.,bent tails,double tails,etc)
2.)no fresh blood in sample
3.) no evidence of allot of unknown bacteria

His plumbing:
everything appeared normal during the collection process.?

Glad that you got the breeding done.

I always request progesterone on the bitches part.
Then your butt is covered.
Owning a studdog can be as much work as owning the bitch.
Good Luck!
Sue


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

Sniper said:


> Update.
> 
> We did a side by side AI and took blood for progesterone test.


What value did you get back from the progesterone test?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Angie B said:


> fore thought.


Is that anything like foreplay????;-)


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Sue Kiefer said:


> Sperm
> 1.)motility (are the boys swimming in one direction or spinning in circles.,bent tails,double tails,etc)
> 2.)no fresh blood in sample
> 3.) no evidence of allot of unknown bacteria
> ...


I looked at the slide for about 3 secs also and they were moving all over the place. No blood in sample. Everything looked good/normal according to the vet. 


Progesterone came back a 21.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

EdA said:


> Is that anything like foreplay????;-)


Well,,, Since foreplay requires fore thought I would think so... 

Angie


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## dragonfly9464 (Apr 24, 2021)

Sue Kiefer said:


> If the boy ain't knotted up he aint' tied up. Nothing to do with the bitch.
> I would have help holding them together when he gets near the end so that he has time to knot or tie.
> Or play Barry White as some suggested.
> Sorry i couldn't help it.;-)
> Sue


 Sue, this is just not true. I have bred shepherds many times in the past. I have a female who can't tie with 2 different stud dogs on 2 different heats. I'm so frustrated. She is in heat for the 3rd time...proven stud cannot tie with her again and gets mostly there and ejaculates all over the floor. Ugh!!!!!!!! Even if she had a skin condition or something else ,SOMETHING is stopping the studs from tying with her physically tho she stands patiently and does cry out when the tie is imminent. I dont know what to do..my male is a gorgeous black sable proven stud and she is black and red...borderline too old now to have pups at 5. Crap on rye.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

Did you just reply to a 10-year-old thread?


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## duckheads (Dec 31, 2004)

Matt McKenzie said:


> Did you just reply to a 10-year-old thread?


The benefits of the new platform!

Much different place back then. Miss seeing some of those names. Some are no longer with us in this life.

Edit: Just noticed we joined at very close to the same time. My first lab was 6-7 months old at the time.


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