# How do you guys know so much?



## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

this is not a rant but i see so many post on this forum on who to breed to and who not to breed to. Have you guys ever seen these dogs run that YOU recomend? I see post after post on this dog or that and i bet the person opening thier mouth has never seen this dog work in person. Just because a dog gets promotted doesnt mean he is that great or a great producer. Look at how many points they have, how many times the finish vs how many times they are entered. MOST FCS or AFCS have ONE win in thier lifetime. Just remember before you talk someone into spending a bunch of money on a breeding know what you are talking about. REGARDS!!


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## Misty Marsh (Aug 1, 2003)

Well that was a rant :lol: , but a well thought out one with a great point.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

very very good point and I have been guilty of the other but you made me think.


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## Richard Halstead (Apr 20, 2005)

For kips comments.
My dream breeding was on the bed with me last week. He was on the derby list and had a Qualifying win. He went to the final series in his first Open.

I try not to push the dogs I am assocaited with, that speaks of kennel blindness as though I think they are the greatest.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

kip said:


> this is not a rant but i see so many post on this forum on who to breed to and who not to breed to. Have you guys ever seen these dogs run that YOU recomend? I see post after post on this dog or that and i bet the person opening thier mouth has never seen this dog work in person. Just because a dog gets promotted doesnt mean he is that great or a great producer. Look at how many points they have, how many times the finish vs how many times they are entered. MOST FCS or AFCS have ONE win in thier lifetime. Just remember before you talk someone into spending a bunch of money on a breeding know what you are talking about. REGARDS!!


How do I know so much?

Because I always stay at a Holiday Inn Express. :wink: 

I never comment on breedings regards,

Gut


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

Ken Guthrie said:


> kip said:
> 
> 
> > this is not a rant but i see so many post on this forum on who to breed to and who not to breed to. Have you guys ever seen these dogs run that YOU recomend? I see post after post on this dog or that and i bet the person opening thier mouth has never seen this dog work in person. Just because a dog gets promotted doesnt mean he is that great or a great producer. Look at how many points they have, how many times the finish vs how many times they are entered. MOST FCS or AFCS have ONE win in thier lifetime. Just remember before you talk someone into spending a bunch of money on a breeding know what you are talking about. REGARDS!!
> ...


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

NOT TO HI-JACK Kip's post, but sitting here at work, bored to tears, it kind of got me thinking about a few things about breeding like,

1. When a male wins a National he, or his sire, seem to immediately become the flavor of the month. 

2. Do you have to be a "player" to breed successfully?

3. Do titles make great sires and dams? 

4. What about the untitled dogs like Super Powder and Esprit's Out of the Woods, just to name a few, who have sired several titled pups. (Yes, most of the people who initially bred to these dogs knew them well).

5. How many "super dogs" have cosistently sired "super dud" litters when bred to both titled and weak females; never reaching near their success as a competitor.

6. How many untitled vs. titled bitches have whelped titled pups 

7. How many "non-players" have successfully bred Field Trial titled pups by doing tons of research on what dogs have nicked well with certain bitches out of similar breedings? 

8. Is there a proven formula?

WE ALL KNOW IT'S REALLY A CRAP SHOOT. I personally believe (and I'm a nobody) in the ole' great pedigree plus great pedigree = A GOOD CHANCE!!!


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

David Maddox said:


> NOT TO HI-JACK Kip's post, but sitting here at work, bored to tears, it kind of got me thinking about a few things about breeding like,
> 
> 1. When a male wins a National he, or his sire, seem to immediately become the flavor of the month.
> 
> ...


 same here back at the office after sping season. your right in what you said. its just some much bull **** gets posted here. yea supertanker was a national champion but he won it and never got wet over his knees. now who has ever said that.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

kip said:


> yea supertanker was a national champion but he won it and never got wet over his knees. now who has ever said that.


Did he walk on water?

Sorry, couldn't help it.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

Buzz said:


> kip said:
> 
> 
> > yea supertanker was a national champion but he won it and never got wet over his knees. now who has ever said that.
> ...


 he thought he could. 8)


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## BamaK9 (Sep 29, 2004)

[/quote] same here back at the office after sping season. your right in what you said. its just some much bull **** gets posted here. yea supertanker was a national champion but he won it and never got wet over his knees. now who has ever said that.[/quote]

I like the way you think brothuh! :wink: I know I'm not smart enough to pick the "right pup" out of the "right litter" so I make sure I find someone who can. In the case of my last pup, I called up the man who bred one of the most successful breedings in history (Patton, Cruise, Izzy, Ford etc. ) and asked him where to go, he got a male and I got a female and I couldn't be happier with the results. 

But kip, if its on the interwebs, its true though ain't it? :wink: :lol:


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## Zack (May 17, 2005)

For the most part it is the same people that post **** they know nothing abou t on other threads as well. Some people just like to amuse themselves by posting on a minimum of 75% of the threads. They are easy to identify and I personally weed them out as not having anything worth while to say ever.


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## smillerdvm (Jun 3, 2006)

Zack; one of the worst offenders of your 75% rule has already posted on this thread. Hopefully Kippy did make him & others think. It's not about the number of posts, but more about the quality of the posts IMHO


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Hold the phone here! Isnt that what most of this forum is about, people's *opinions*??? Doesnt matter how they arrived at them, maybe they like a particular shade of yeller dawg, maybe they saw his mama make it across the line with a chicken at the swamp mecca RC. And yes maybe they found cool pictures on the internet (like me) and made a choice that way. At any rate, it doesnt matter *how*they arrived at their choice, if the question was asked, "who do you like" where is the flaw in answering? Do we require a nutritionist degree to express what dog food we feed?

If you dont want dumb answers from ignorant people, dont depend on the internet or any forum as a substitute for real research. Meanwhile, dont spoil the fun of free expression.

Lets lighten up and have fun here


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

I had thought about saying I know so much from reading this forum!  

Should give you some indication of what I know...


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

2tall said:


> Hold the phone here! Isnt that what most of this forum is about, people's *opinions*??? Doesnt matter how they arrived at them, maybe they like a particular shade of yeller dawg, maybe they saw his mama make it across the line with a chicken at the swamp mecca RC. And yes maybe they found cool pictures on the internet (like me) and made a choice that way. At any rate, it doesnt matter *how*they arrived at their choice, if the question was asked, "who do you like" where is the flaw in answering? Do we require a nutritionist degree to express what dog food we feed?
> 
> If you dont want dumb answers from ignorant people, dont depend on the internet or any forum as a substitute for real research. Meanwhile, dont spoil the fun of free expression.
> 
> Lets lighten up and have fun here


 you are right on the most part,. my beef is with the money and time someone could spend on an influance they recived from some knuckle head that is an internet field champion.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

2tall said:


> Hold the phone here! Isnt that what most of this forum is about, people's *opinions*??? Doesnt matter how they arrived at them, maybe they like a particular shade of yeller dawg, maybe they saw his mama make it across the line with a chicken at the swamp mecca RC. And yes maybe they found cool pictures on the internet (like me) and made a choice that way. At any rate, it doesnt matter *how*they arrived at their choice, if the question was asked, "who do you like" where is the flaw in answering? Do we require a nutritionist degree to express what dog food we feed?
> 
> If you dont want dumb answers from ignorant people, dont depend on the internet or any forum as a substitute for real research. Meanwhile, dont spoil the fun of free expression.
> 
> Lets lighten up and have fun here


The self-important people that post on RTF are actually more annoying than the ignorant people. Everyone learned from someone else....some just forget that at one time they didnt know anything.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

kip said:


> ...an internet field champion.



Ding...ding...ding.... IFC


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Cat Squirrel said:


> kip said:
> 
> 
> > ...an internet field champion.
> ...


Is that a AKC Title. :wink:


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

I think kip just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.  

Jerry


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

> For the most part it is the same people that post **** they know nothing abou t on other threads as well. Some people just like to amuse themselves by posting on a minimum of 75% of the threads. They are easy to identify and I personally weed them out as not having anything worth while to say ever.


Am I parranoid, or did some of you guys think he MIGHT betalkin bout the Gooser??

Amusing myself,, :lol: 

Gooser


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## YardleyLabs (Dec 22, 2006)

kip said:


> my beef is with the money and time someone could spend on an influance they recived from some knuckle head that is an internet field champion.


I am not new to labs, but I am very new to trying to breed labs that have a chance of doing well in hunt tests and field trials. I've approached it the way I approach things in my professional life -- I read a lot, talk to a lot of people, and observe and listen to real experts whenever I have the chance. I then experiment and accept some of the lumps I receive as the cost of learning.

I like discussions such as these because they give me a wider perspective on what different people think than I would obtain talking to my neighbors and friends. I like RTF because it is a meeting place for people of all skill levels from novice to world class experts to exchange facts and opinions with a reasonable amount of GDG thrown in. The fact that the line between facts and opinions sometimes gets lost is normal. The fact that discussions often seem to decline into personal insult matches is unfortunate.

For me the plus is that all of those facts and opinions give me clues on areas that I want to research and learn about and they give me some guidance on places to look. A lot of what I have read on this forum has turned out to be less than useful. However, many if not most of the useful things I have learned have come from clues that I first got on this forum. The time I spend trying to figure out the difference between garbage and gold is education, not waste.

Anyone who spends a lot of money based on opinions I express on this forum doesn't need my help to be a fool.

As an aside, I would probably never have heard of your dogs except for comments made on this forum. After researching your dogs and your personal record in breeding and training winners, I feel blessed to be able to participate in a forum where you contribute.


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

I can't speak for the other 99%, but as for me I firmly believe it's the whiskey. I have learned over the years that when applied in sufficient quantity, aged Kentucky bourbon has truly remarkable powers. A couple of glasses and I know the exactly right answer to a wide variety of questions and become an authority of some reknown on damn near everything. It also greatly enhances my ability to tell jokes, sing, dance, romance, ride wild bulls, overpower smartass rivals and makes me ever so much more handsome.

I'm told that there are some that can reach these dizzing heights while completely sober and from what I can see Kippy you might be one of those lucky folks. 

Don't breed dogs regards

Bubba


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Steve Amrein said:


> Cat Squirrel said:
> 
> 
> > kip said:
> ...


No, I believe that one appears in the list of CKC titles :twisted:


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Bubba said:


> I can't speak for the other 99%, but as for me I firmly believe it's the whiskey. I have learned over the years that when applied in sufficient quantity, aged Kentucky bourbon has truly remarkable powers. A couple of glasses and I know the exactly right answer to a wide variety of questions and become an authority of some reknown on damn near everything. It also greatly enhances my ability to tell jokes, sing, dance, romance, ride wild bulls, overpower smartass rivals and makes me ever so much more handsome.
> 
> I'm told that there are some that can reach these dizzing heights while completely sober and from what I can see Kippy you might be one of those lucky folks.
> 
> ...


I've found that its even more effective in groups of ********. 

/Paul


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Quote:*The self-important people that post on RTF are actually more annoying than the ignorant people. Everyone learned from someone else....some just forget that at one time they didnt know anything.*

Is this anything like the Phase 2 that Danny and Judy talked about on their DVD ??? Or is Phase 1 or even Phase 3 ????


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## Backcast (Jun 1, 2006)

I'm just a hunter who dicovered Hunt Tests a few years ago and got hooked. I pretty much just "lurk" here and get some great info. I spent most of today checking with references on a breeding that's listed in the classified here. This thread reminds me of what a pro actually said to me today, "The only thing two trainers will agree on is what the third trainer is doing wrong" Maybe you heard that before but it cracked me up.


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## Polock (Jan 6, 2003)

Kip, no different than watching the noobie posting info on training advice, when they themselves don't have a clue....................quite a few of them on the RTF lately.................... :?


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Then a really good old friend of mine put it this way: "There are those that run dogs and those that post on forums like this." But then since my dog is with a pro then I've got nothing better to do any way. Seriously though this is a interesting way of sharing information or opinions -- but because it's free and costs nothing does that mean that there is NO WORTH HERE ????? I don't think so or I wouldn't spend so much time here


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

This thread could use a good mirror. HPW


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

kip said:


> this is not a rant but i see so many post on this forum on who to breed to and who not to breed to. Have you guys ever seen these dogs run that YOU recomend? I see post after post on this dog or that and i bet the person opening thier mouth has never seen this dog work in person. Just because a dog gets promotted doesnt mean he is that great or a great producer. Look at how many points they have, how many times the finish vs how many times they are entered. MOST FCS or AFCS have ONE win in thier lifetime. Just remember before you talk someone into spending a bunch of money on a breeding know what you are talking about. REGARDS!!


I find the RTF very relaxing. 

Nevertheless I do agree with you in theory. 

On one of my trips to the US, I asked so many highly respected trainers and owners, who would you suggest as a stud - as I was keen to import frozen semen. 

Many suggested not to, due to health concerns. 

One particular reply, causes me to smile every time I remember. ASK HOW THEY DID IN BASICS AND HOW THEY COME BACK AFTER BEING ON THE COUCH AT THEIR OWNERS HOME. Heck, how the dickens could I have seen every suggested dog during their basics????????

I am glad I imported Yank, an inbred Lean Mac. Wonderfully happy with his health and work.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> Quote:The self-important people that post on RTF are actually more annoying than the ignorant people. Everyone learned from someone else....some just forget that at one time they didnt know anything.
> 
> Is this anything like the Phase 2 that Danny and Judy talked about on their DVD ??? Or is Phase 1 or even Phase 3 ????


According to DrEd's quote (which I absolutely love), they are hopelessly stuck in Phase 2.


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## Ken Archer (Aug 11, 2003)

J. C. Penney used to say, "If you walk down the street and meet a crazy man and stop to talk to him for five minutes, if you don't learn something, I have to wonder who is crazy." The only good thing about being on RTF all the time is that it takes time to be able to seperate the GDG from the fact. There is lots of good info on this forum and lots of good GDG as well.


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Steve Amrein said:


> Cat Squirrel said:
> 
> 
> > kip said:
> ...


Maybe it should be....maybe we need to PPU-AFC (Pro Propped Up) just so we all know what is what. :wink:


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Aussie said:


> One particular reply, causes me to smile every time I remember. ASK HOW THEY DID IN BASICS AND HOW THEY COME BACK AFTER BEING ON THE COUCH AT THEIR OWNERS HOME. Heck, how the dickens could I have seen every suggested dog during their basics????????


I guess all you can do is ask people who would know, the difficult thing is knowing who's opinion you can trust. :? 



ErinsEdge said:


> According to DrEd's quote (which I absolutely love), they are hopelessly stuck in Phase 2.


I'm not sure what quote you mean. Can you jog my memory?



Ken Archer said:


> J. C. Penney used to say, "If you walk down the street and meet a crazy man and stop to talk to him for five minutes, if you don't learn something, I have to wonder who is crazy." The only good thing about being on RTF all the time is that it takes time to be able to seperate the GDG from the fact. There is lots of good info on this forum and lots of good GDG as well.


I've been watching this board for a good couple of years. I sit at a computer and write all day, and my mind needs to wander a few times a day to keep me from burning out. I think after awhile you figure out who is blowing smoke. I have gotten advice from some interesting people who I respect, thanks for this board. I don't always take it, but at least I have access to it, this internet thingie is pretty cool. I get to converse with people I'd have never otherwise met, and I have a nice dog I'd have never heard about... 8)


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## SloppyMouth (Mar 25, 2005)

Polock said:


> Kip, no different than watching the noobie posting info on training advice, when they themselves don't have a clue....................quite a few of them on the RTF lately.................... :?


Aw, c'mon Dan! Even noobies (which I am one of) can help other noobies learn...and can learn more themselves from posting and receiving a well-timed correction!

Besides, if the noobies didn't post, would there even be training-related threads on here???? All the "IFC" posters could answer every training question with one line and then the only thing to talk about would be politics, religion and seating on a duck!

/this is actually a pretty entertaining thread regards


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Whenever I see those "who should I breed to posts" I wonder why they are not researching that themselves. Sure, there are those on here who have seen some nice dogs run, but more than likely they have never seen the bitch nor know enough about her to make an appropriate recommendation. The breeder might be better off with a "less famous" dog that they know more about rather than a "popular" dog that they know little about....
Newbie breeders would be better off to find a mentor in another breeder with similar breeding goals and have that person assist them in their search for an appropriate stud.


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

ok i will admit i made a mistake. mike called me this morning and scolded me. tank did get in the water in the 1990 national.  but we never agreed on how much.  . i didnt see anything but the first waterblind. hey mike i never said he wasnt a great dog! 8)


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

kip said:


> ok i will admit i made a mistake. mike called me this morning and scolded me. tank did get in the water in the 1990 national.


Maybe he got in the water in 1990 but Lottie won that one, Tank won in 1992 :wink: the one with the "mystery cedar tree"


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

EdA said:


> kip said:
> 
> 
> > ok i will admit i made a mistake. mike called me this morning and scolded me. tank did get in the water in the 1990 national.
> ...



HEY! HEY! HEY! Don't be speaking ill of my pup's Granddaddy. Besides, when isn't a cedar tree an enigma? heh heh heh heh :lol: :wink: 

UB


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Uncle Bill said:


> EdA said:
> 
> 
> > kip said:
> ...


The only group for people that have more conspiracy theories than the field trial world is in the UFO community. :wink:


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Uncle Bill said:


> Don't be speaking ill of my pup's Granddaddy. Besides, when isn't a cedar tree an enigma? heh heh heh heh :lol: :wink:
> UB


I speak no ill, just reminding Kip of the controversial blind at the '92 National when I was Chief Marshall


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## Charles C. (Nov 5, 2004)

EdA said:


> Uncle Bill said:
> 
> 
> > Don't be speaking ill of my pup's Granddaddy. Besides, when isn't a cedar tree an enigma? heh heh heh heh :lol: :wink:
> ...


Please tell the story, Ed. This is the most interesting thing I've seen on here in weeks. What was your impression of Tank generally?


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Charles C. said:


> What was your impression of Tank generally?


he was a Honcho son, need I say more, and a fine one too, handsome, stylish, and very talented


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Kip, we're frickin smart. Live with it.

/Paul


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## ramblinmaxx (Nov 17, 2004)

> Polock wrote:
> Kip, no different than watching the noobie posting info on training advice, when they themselves don't have a clue....................quite a few of them on the RTF lately....................


SloppyMouth wrote:


> Aw, c'mon Dan! Even noobies (which I am one of) can help other noobies learn...and can learn more themselves from posting and receiving a well-timed correction!
> 
> Besides, if the noobies didn't post, would there even be training-related threads on here???? All the "IFC" posters could answer every training question with one line and then the only thing to talk about would be politics, religion and seating on a duck!


*Marty says Amen !!!*

Paul wrote:


> Kip, we're frickin smart. Live with it.



*And some of us so called noobies are trying to learn as much as we can from what ever source we can, so we can be Frickin Smart too!*

*Kip,
What exactly sparked this rant, even though you say it is not?*

Post not cleared with Lesa regards, :wink: 
Marty


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

*Kip,
What exactly sparked this rant, even though you say it is not?*


Marty[/quote]


Bless his heart, he can't help being out of sorts. He thought he finally had his Golden water forced 'til he left the sprinkler running and it made a four inch deep mud puddle. 
Just trying to smooth things over while Chris is gone.
Y'all be good now regards,
Becky


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## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

Might have been about a fifth of Jack Daniels also.

Jerry


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Jerry said:


> Might have been about a fifth of Jack Daniels also.
> 
> Jerry


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

Jerry said:


> Might have been about a fifth of Jack Daniels also.
> 
> Jerry


 no i was not drinking. i was told of by a "reliable source" of a person on this forum who gave breeding advace to someone who took thier advice and ended up with five grand inexpenses and three pups and two ended up displastic. go figure.


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## taggbro (Sep 28, 2005)

kip said:


> Jerry said:
> 
> 
> > Might have been about a fifth of Jack Daniels also.
> ...


Think about what that person could have ended up with without that advice. :?:


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Kip, we're frickin smart. Live with it.
> 
> /Paul


..............not as smart as you were when you were 21 :wink: 

john


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## Steve Bean (May 3, 2004)

kip said:


> Jerry said:
> 
> 
> > Might have been about a fifth of Jack Daniels also.
> ...


So, Kip, how is 'your' other pup doing...... :lol:


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

john fallon said:


> Gun_Dog2002 said:
> 
> 
> > Kip, we're frickin smart. Live with it.
> ...


John, none of us ever are.... :lol: :lol: :lol: I didn't feel pain back then either. 

/Paul


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

kip said:


> Jerry said:
> 
> 
> > Might have been about a fifth of Jack Daniels also.
> ...



So this is a rant about poor information based on a "reliable" rumor?


Is the internet great or what?! :lol:


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

kip said:


> Jerry said:
> 
> 
> > Might have been about a fifth of Jack Daniels also.
> ...


I have a hard time seeing how the local health cert police wouldn't have jumped in if there was a foreseeable problem.


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## Uncle Bill (Jan 18, 2003)

EdA said:


> Charles C. said:
> 
> 
> > What was your impression of Tank generally?
> ...


And as a Honcho son, he passed on some great genes. Tank's son via Triple Echo produced this good looking Honcho grandson, I'm proud to say. 











UB


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## ducksoup (Oct 3, 2005)

Uncle Bill said:


> EdA said:
> 
> 
> > Charles C. said:
> ...


Tank certainly threw some pretty impressive genes -- something about a dog named Lottie?!?!?


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

I hate to say it Kip, but there are alot of breeders who take risks in breeding in search of blue. I once asked a fairly well known stud owner about some missing clearances in his dog's pedigree and was told that any breeding was a crap shoot. He told me I could get dysplastic pups with any breeding. While this may be true, you can certainly improve your odds with careful research.


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## Targander (Jul 6, 2004)

Last Frontier Labs said:


> Whenever I see those "who should I breed to posts" I wonder why they are not researching that themselves. Sure, there are those on here who have seen some nice dogs run, but more than likely they have never seen the bitch nor know enough about her to make an appropriate recommendation. The breeder might be better off with a "less famous" dog that they know more about rather than a "popular" dog that they know little about....
> Newbie breeders would be better off to find a mentor in another breeder with similar breeding goals and have that person assist them in their search for an appropriate stud.


Good post Sherri. Iv seen it for years now, breeders advising others while they themselves have no concept on either the stud dog in question nor the bitch to be bred. Putting names and titles together is what they feel is important to them formost...with no concern for Health nor temperment ect... 

And speaking of researching pedigrees, rumor has it that Daniel S. will be will be breeding Bramble to Lean Mac this summer/fall 8) 

One who does their own research reguards...


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## SamLab1 (Jul 24, 2003)

I wonder how many All Age points are represented in this group's offspring that an "internet expert" loved by us all would not breed to.......... :shock: 

AKC-Licensed Retriever Field Trials High-Point Derby Dogs 
2006 Little Bit Dangerous 60 
*2005 Hawkeye's Red White and Blue 84 
2004 Taylorlab Downtown Dusty Brown 72 
2003 Hawkeye's Coast Guard 84 
2002 Hawkeye's Viking 92 
2001 Running With The Devil 61 
2000 Volwood's Peaches & Cream 83 
1999 Showthyme 93 
1998 Gig'em By Surprise 74 *
1997 Chena River Ripple, LF 115 
1996 Topgun Abel Oakley, LM 70 
1995 Greenwing's Chances Are Slim, LM 78 
1994 Chena River Tug, LF 99 
1993 Ronfleaux, LM 48 
*1992 Lucyana Fast Willie, LM 72 *
1991 Vinwood's Takes A Lickin, LM 96 
1990 Carolina's Full Force Gale, LF 52 
*1989 Candlewoods Tanks A Lot, LF 108* 
1988 Midknight Code Breaker, LM 93 
1987 Aces High III, LM 75 
1986 Super Sonic Boomer, LF 86 
1985 Westwind's Super Bunny Babe, LF 66 
1984 Westwind's Bold Tiger, LM 50 
1983 Painter's Daily Double, LM 92 
1982 Hiwood Piper's Pacer's Pic, LM 73 
1981 Ben's Enchanged Budweiser, GM 66 
1980 Waccamaw's Hiwood Rock, LM 60 
1979 Sunday Hawkeye, LF 62 
1978 Mad River's Oliver Hardy, LM 60 
1977 Dr. Davey, PhD, LM 63 
1976 Carr-Lab Raider's Gain, LM 48 
1975 Donnybrooks St. Jude, LF 81 
1974 Dude's Double or Nothin', LM 73 
1973 Tigathoe's Funky Farquar, GM 51 
1972 Rascal's First Edition, LM 77 
1971 Watchim Sneak, LM 71 
*1970 River Oaks Rascal, LM 81 
1969 Ray's Rascal, LM 64 *
1968 Hill's Tip Top Tye, LM 56 
*1967 River Oaks Corky, LM 51 *
1966 Bigstone Flint, LM 50 
1965 Time of Frontier, LM 70 
1964 Mac Gene's Fall Guy, LM 64 
1963 Mirk of Daingerfield, LM 
1962 Col-Tam of Craignook, LM 48 
1961 Cream City Co-Ed, LF 38 
1960 Jet of Zenith, LM 68


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

I dont understand why would seek such important info on a public forum. On the only litter that we bred it took months and months of research, e-mails and phone calls to folks I know and trust. You are not going to get the real and important info on a public forum cause likely you are getting 1/2 the info meaning good only. I also would not take a recommendation from someone that I only knew from a I-net chat/forum. Comments like "I saw him win a 173 dog open when he was 9 months old and was magnificent" does not make a good stud based on what someone saw at one trial. A whole bunch of factors including performance to consider. 

On a second note please define newbie.

Is it someone with his first dog.
Someone with his first trial/test dog.
Some who has not placed or passed a trial/test
Someone who has been at the game for a long time but not a RTF member/poster
Someone who has not titled a dog.
Qualified for a national
pointed judge
Qualified by marvins list
:roll: 

Hasn't stayed at a holiday inn :wink:


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## hhlabradors (Mar 18, 2005)

Steve Amrein said:


> On a second note please define newbie.


I believe we defined it in a past thread as someone with fewer than 100 posts! :wink: 

That said, I agree with what Kip originally posted.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Is it what somebody says or is it what somebody believes? If someone bases their decision solely on information received via this forum then who is responsible for the outcome? :?: Grain of salt, HPW


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Steve Amrein said:


> I dont understand why would seek such important info on a public forum. On the only litter that we bred it took months and months of research, e-mails and phone calls to folks I know and trust.


I put up such a request for a friend who has a nice QAA Ram bitch. He is planning to breed her next winter, and I want a pup out of that bitch bad.

The most recent request was by Oakwood. He stated that he plans to breed his bitch next January.

With those kinds of lead times before the breeding takes place, has it occured to ANYONE that a question on here might be the STARTING POINT for folks planning to do plenty of research, maybe get to some trials this summer and watch dogs run and speak to people? Then maybe follow up with phone calls to discuss with people that they trust?

Talk about condescending attitudes. How many don't have a clue about the people you're crucifying on a public forum? Probably just a bunch of rubes that don't know if their ass is punched or bored, right? :roll:


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> don't know if their ass is punched or bored, right?


Oh Geez, thanks for that visual Buzz. 

Having dreams of punches and drills tonight regards,


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

Who are the other highly promoted dogs that aren't any good? I just posted :lol: nanny nanny boo boo. Just joking, but I would really like to know which aren't so great.


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## hhlabradors (Mar 18, 2005)

DL said:


> Who are the other highly promoted dogs that aren't any good? I just posted :lol: nanny nanny boo boo. Just joking, but I would really like to know which aren't so great.



Which dog qualifies as "any good" as it pertains to breeding is at least as much a matter of what the bitch brings to the table as what the dog himself may or may not offer. Some individuals and some lines nick better than others. Some great dogs don't produce well, some less great dogs produce better. Some health and temperament issues over-ride titles earned.

There are few dogs that are or are not "any good" just on the basis of themselves as individuals in a vacuum.

I agree that that suggestions from people on the forum can be a launching point for more indepth investigations, which is different than immediately calling to reserve your sperm based simply on an internet post.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Howard N said:


> > don't know if their ass is punched or bored, right?
> 
> 
> Oh Geez, thanks for that visual Buzz.


Anything I can do to help. :wink: 

I grew up with a father who was world class at cursing. He's mellowing with age, thank goodness.


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

I've counted 3 cuss words on this thread.................

Good thing Ireland has Chris.

I would have been ejected regards,

:lol:


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

Ken Guthrie said:


> I've counted 3 cuss words on this thread.................
> 
> Good thing Ireland has Chris.
> 
> ...



There goes that touchy feely thing again


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## kip (Apr 13, 2004)

i need to clarify something. i am not an english major. you guys know this i know and i cant type either. i shouldnt even post because i just piss people off. i never ment that tank wasnt a great dog i was using him as an example of how people try put perfection in every dog that that dont have a clue about. its just something they dream up or make a fantasy about. im sorry if i hurt someones feelings by what i have posted.  i will leave now hopeing the moral majority on this forum can have peace now. i will always be passinate about my sport in which i have given a big part of my life. so you that crucify me here i look forward to seeing you face to face one day.


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## John Norris (Feb 25, 2004)

kip said:


> i need to clarify something. i am not an english major. you guys know this i know and i cant type either. i shouldnt even post because i just piss people off. i never ment that tank wasnt a great dog i was using him as an example of how people try put perfection in every dog that that dont have a clue about. its just something they dream up or make a fantasy about. im sorry if i hurt someones feelings by what i have posted.  i will leave now hopeing the moral majority on this forum can have peace now. i will always be passinate about my sport in which i have given a big part of my life. so you that crucify me here i look forward to seeing you face to face one day.



I liked what the initial post said and wish more people would tell it like it is.... especially those that have the "experience".


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

I second that, John Norris


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## Ken Guthrie (Oct 1, 2003)

Kip........

Stay aboard brother............I need a sarcastic partner. :wink:


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## Steve Amrein (Jun 11, 2004)

Buzz said:


> Steve Amrein said:
> 
> 
> > I dont understand why would seek such important info on a public forum. On the only litter that we bred it took months and months of research, e-mails and phone calls to folks I know and trust.
> ...



I think its a great starting point and what you are doing is certainly the best way about it. The point I was trying to make is feedback you will get on a public forum must likely will not give the problems. The way you are doing it makes the most sense to me.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Besides, Kip came up with the genius phrase _Internet Field Champion_, so someone can now call someone an IFC...it's all just GDG anyway.


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## Last Frontier Labs (Jan 3, 2003)

Buzz said:


> Talk about condescending attitudes. How many don't have a clue about the people you're crucifying on a public forum? Probably just a bunch of rubes that don't know if their ass is punched or bored, right? :roll:


Nice... 
I didn't think I was condescending at all. I was merely backing up Kip's statement with observations I have made. I have been a member of this board for awhile and it seems like just recently there have been alot of the "who do I breed to?" posts compared with past years. Breeding should involve alot of research. I can see using the forum as a starting point, but to use it as your only resource isn't a good idea.
Kip, don't stop posting. Your post may have prevented someone else from having a similar problem.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

Sherri,

I am sorry that you thought my post was aimed at you. It wasn't. Look at the post above yours from Steve. It was aimed at him, and I apologize for being harsh. I was offended that anyone would think me and my friend might take advice from an internet forum and run with it. It was a starting point. Out of the 20 or so responses I got, there might just be one jewel in there from someone who knows what they are talking about. We'll do our homework because we think this is a special bitch, and we would love to get a breeding that produces some dogs with ability even close to what we see in her... or better.

I appreciate that Steve was civil in his reply, thanks Steve. 

Now, it's time to lace up my boots and go train until dark. Have a nice night!


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## Bill Schuna (Mar 11, 2004)

Buzz wrote,



> We'll do our homework because we think this is a special bitch, and we would love to get a breeding that produces some dogs with ability even close to what we see in her... or better.


I've thrown marks for her a few times. Liked what I saw. I'm no expert by any means, but saw a dog that could nail marks and loved to work.

Good luck with your future pup Buzz.

Bill


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## DL (Jan 13, 2003)

I hope my post wasn't offensive. From my perspective I wonder about the maybe hidden weaknesses in dogs because I may get another pup one day, and I'm also trying to figure out the ones I have. I realize people are careful about bad mouthing someone's dog. If a dog has been dead for a long time I didn't realize maybe the significance of that. At this point, it is not like I would be shying away from supertanker because of this thread. My question was the question that begged asking and wasn't directed at anyone person.


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