# Mud Motor VS Outboard gdg



## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

Well, thinking about making a change to a mud motor and selling my duckboat with an outboard. 

Any thoughts on mud motors, pros/cons etc.....

Take care all, John


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## MarkyMark (Jun 5, 2010)

Over the years I have the chance to own quite a few duck boats. About 8 years ago I decided I wanted a longtail for some timber areas I hunt. I went for the whole package from Mud Buddy. My friend and I drove down, picked up the boat, 35hp Long shaft. Next weekend we took it for a ride and about 2 hours later I parked it in my barn and used it for a coat rack the last 7 years. It was the hardest boat I ever ran, turning flat out sucked since you needed a large clear area made it tough in tight timber. Grant you many use them just wasn't for me. 

This past summer I had the motor gone over since mice decided to make home in the cover and chewed all the wires. Placed it on craiglist and unloaded it to make room for another sneak box. I have a friend who picked up a Hyper drive and that is a totally different beast. He likes it, I am not into those pop up blinds either and in strong winds they flat out suck. 

You take a TDB, Wrangler, Duck Water high sides, locking cover, blind that protects you in rain, plenty of room. When your done hunting take the blind down, cover lock and your on your way. 

I would rather hunt out of my Duck Water 17', Duck Wrangler 15' or my sneak boxes. I guess if you have mud and open water there a great boat. I don't think there as sea worthy if you get into rough water. At the end of the day I would rather have a sneakbox with a 15hp 2 stroke.


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## Lucky Number Seven (Feb 22, 2009)

You can get places you never could and you can run wide open (with safety in mind) in places you couldn't before. Only worth the price if you need to get into areas you can't with an outboard. Typically if the boat is floating the motor can push it. I love my setup. 

If you can afford one with a reverse it helps quite a bit (I couldn't) but a push pole will become your best friend if you can't. 

They are definitely louder and you don't get the speed out of them like an outboard but for pure torque and getting in the thick stuff definitely worth it.

I was jumping cattail bogs and going over logs that would've destroyed and outboard. I have a Mudbuddy Hypersport (short tail). Easier to drive than a long tail but also pricier.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Theres alot of info out there and it will be tough to sift through the BS. The biggest mistakes people make when switching to a mud motor is that they either go to small with horsepower or dont match the motor to a good hull. These rigs cost alotta money and spending that kind of money only to find out that it doesnt perform to your expectations is a tough pill to swallow. 

Some things to think about
-what do I need my rig to do 80% of the time
-what is your budget
-do you need reverse
-What are your local dealers, do they even service them, and how good are they? (ask for references)
-what max load does it need to plane

I would say that at a minimum reguardless of HP go with a .100 all welded hull that is a true flat bottom (no mod V), also look for a hull that has 7 foot of rake. (Alweld, Weldbilt, Clark, Kann, Etc) The longer flat rake will help with poppin load on plane and will offer a drier ride. Once again stay away from mod v's because youll never reach the full potential of the motor. Stay in the 17-18 foot range. If you go with a 23-27hp motor look at a 40"-44" wide if you get the 35hp and up look in the 48"-60" in those lengths. These motors like more length in a boat esp helps with load carrying. One other mistake that alot of people make is to order a hull with all kinds of gun boxes etc only to wish they had the extra room back not to mention the boat would be lighter without them.

Also concider that in the mud boat world olot of the hulls are comercial rated and DO NOT have floatation. Theres aot of opinions on this .......

IMO a true "Mud Boat" is made from .125/5086 aluminum, will have 1"X2" extruded alum longitudinal braceing, all welded of couse, 7 foot of rake, with a smooth flat bottom.

Notice Ive talked alot about boats when your orig question was about MM's, well thats because I cant emphisis how imprtant it is to match it up with the right hull when you drop over $6000 on the motor. When set up properly they will take you where most cant go and will make alot of things easier on you..


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

This is and inside look at the platform for a Mud Boat


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

I've hunted the backwaters of the Mississippi River the last two seasons. I'm switching to a mud motor rig this summer. The reason is I can't get into or even close to a tremendous number of really good hunting spots without one. Most everyone else in duck camp uses a mud motor. This fall the river was very high and I saw first hand areas that I had never been before. Wow! that was enough for me. I guess ignorance was bliss....I have to change. 

The next problem is finding out what is best for me. Small is less expensive.......but there are disadvantages........safety and load carrying capabilities. The process of buying a completely different kind of waterfowl rig (and selling the one I have) is much worse than buying my first puppy. 

Right now I'm in the "swamped with information" mode. In addition, discovering the "genetic" flaws in used rigs is a "crap shoot". Another difficult aspect of the decision (even though the economy is down) it's not a buyer's market.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

The longtails are a beast to drive but they are simple, dependable and cheaper than the surface drives. At this point all the Surface drives are built pretty well with the Pro Drive being most like an outboard to drive. You'll have to look at what your budget allows and go from there with the different brands. IMO, with your budget, put Horsepower ahead of options when your looking too.


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## lizard55033 (Mar 10, 2008)

All depends on the areas and what your normal and ab-normal hunting conditions are as well as the hunting setup you want. 

With the correct setup for your needs (boat/motor combo) with a mud rig you should see speeds up to 30 mph-ish; but again that depends on the setup.

Boats: True flat bottom, Mod V flat, or either with ribs...

Chine: Helps with load carrying as well as how your boat turns and drafts under load.
- square chine will carry a really good load, but not turn worth a dang without skating all over the place
- round chine will carry a little less load, and draft a tad more; but will give you the great turning ability
- tapered chine is a great all round

Motors: Well you have long tails and surface drives 
- long tails are torque monster with alot of torque steer. You'll get there but wont win any speed races. They are a pain in tight areas (timber) or working on tight corners. Need to use standing up.
- surface drives are great for the long haul and the tight areas. Can use with a console as well as a tiller, but can also use sitting down.

Like I stated it all depends on your area. A standard outboard or outboard/tunnel hull combo will get you there faster normally; if you have the water depth to run it. If not make the jump to a quality rig and mud motor; just make sure you buy a boat that is DESIGNED for a mud motor or you'll be trowing money down the drain and hurting your performance and potentially your safety too.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Kwick, If you ever have any questions your welcome to call me. Or just pm me your number and Ill call you I was heavily involve in this buis for 5 yrs. If you have something in mind that you want to get info on I might even know of someone that has that rig and you could check it out.


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## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

All depends; if you only have 6" of water on top of 6' of mud you are not going to walk in and your not going to be using an outboard, so a mud motor becomes a good choice. But if you have 6' of water on top of only 6" of mud, why on earth would you want one?!?
Where we each hunt is what decides which rig is best, not which is the coolest, badass, or most expensive.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

My hunting partner in Austin is the CenTex dealer for Gator Trax boats and Mud Buddy motors, he uses a short tail version but I have been on it numerous times along with taking it out fishing with two adults and two kids..Very stable ride, the kids love the speed..this is a picture of my friend Rick (left) and Shane (Rt) and in the center is Glenn Foreman, the owner of Mud Buddy, picture was taken two weeks ago on the guys yearly Idaho trek on the Snake..I got an invite but had to go a week earlier










rigged for fishing


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## Franco (Jun 27, 2003)

18-20 foot Gator Trax boat with a Pro Drive surface drive outboad.

Can't be beat for shallow water, mud or heavy vegitation!

http://www.prodriveoutboards.com/

http://www.gatortraxboats.com/home.htm


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## Gunner2233 (May 25, 2010)

mudd said:


> The longtails are a beast to drive but they are simple, dependable and cheaper than the surface drives. At this point all the Surface drives are built pretty well with the Pro Drive being most like an outboard to drive. You'll have to look at what your budget allows and go from there with the different brands. IMO, with your budget, put Horsepower ahead of options when your looking too.


Can you send me your email. I tried to pm you but it wouldn't allow me to. I have some questions on a boat for you. Thanks


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## j towne (Jul 27, 2006)

I have a mud buddy hyper drive and a Gator trax boat with the hunt deck. I am very happy with it. But if you run in a lot of sand it will wear your prop out in no time. 
I went with Mud buddy because it had neutral. I have had my boat in nothing but mud with no water, 20 feet deep in the chesapeake bay, and busting through 3 inch thick ice. I love it.


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## dorkweed (Apr 14, 2009)

KwickLabs said:


> I've hunted the backwaters of the Mississippi River the last two seasons. I'm switching to a mud motor rig this summer. The reason is I can't get into or even close to a tremendous number of really good hunting spots without one. Most everyone else in duck camp uses a mud motor. This fall the river was very high and I saw first hand areas that I had never been before. Wow! that was enough for me. I guess ignorance was bliss....I have to change.
> 
> The next problem is finding out what is best for me. Small is less expensive.......but there are disadvantages........safety and load carrying capabilities. The process of buying a completely different kind of waterfowl rig (and selling the one I have) is much worse than buying my first puppy.
> 
> Right now I'm in the "swamped with information" mode. In addition, discovering the "genetic" flaws in used rigs is a "crap shoot". Another difficult aspect of the decision (even though the economy is down) is it not a buyer's market.




Jim, I know you and you're a very thoughtful and resourceful guy. I've got no qualms about you wanting to switch to a mud motor for your boat. That said, the main problem I have with the folks that have/use them is that they destroy habitat!!!! Just because you can go thru it without too much difficulty, doesn't mean that you really should!!!! I've been to too many spots via an outboard or by canoe that from there you had to hike in a ways..........usually because it was too thick to run a boat on and too soft to farm. The mud motor boys quickly made a sloppy, muddy quagmire of it and as a result less birds frequented that area. Don't get me wrong, they had a couple great hunts in there..........but at what cost????? Later.


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## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

BonMallari said:


> My hunting partner in Austin is the CenTex dealer for Gator Trax boats and Mud Buddy motors, he uses a short tail version but I have been on it numerous times along with taking it out fishing with two adults and two kids..Very stable ride, the kids love the speed..this is a picture of my friend Rick (left) and Shane (Rt) and in the center is Glenn Foreman, the owner of Mud Buddy, picture was taken two weeks ago on the guys yearly Idaho trek on the Snake..I got an invite but had to go a week earlier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First off, thanks to all for the wealth of information! My primary hunting grounds would be the California Delta and Tulelake---both have mud, though there is no option to get out of the boat in most Delta swamps. I have run an outboard for years and for the most part it is fine except during low tides. Tulelake is another issue.

A follow up question: what about a Hydrolilc jack plate--any of you running them?


Okay Bon--that picture got my attention --now I know where my Cali. mallards are going! And the water, looked better suited for my 21 foot North River jet boat. So another follow up question; what is the minimum water depth for running a Mud Buddy in a gravel/rocky river?

Again thanks all---I'm learning. 

Okay, one more question Bon---public or private? If the former, you may see me on the Snake!


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## BLeigh (Feb 20, 2008)

Are you going to use the boat to fish? I have a longtail and it makes it difficult to run a trolling motor when you dont have a keel (just something to think about). Also if I was going to be in the boat alone a lot I would option for the mudd buddy or prodrive with a reverse. Makes it so much easier putting in by yourself, etc.
There are pros and cons to the motor... Most guys running rivers a lot (rock bottom) have better results with the jets, they are faster too. However, the mud motors are not bothered by the ice, leaves, weeds, etc. The bad part is that they are slow and the longtail sometimes is like wresting a bear for a hot dog.


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## freefall319 (Jan 31, 2010)

Making the switch to the dark side are we..........I wish I'd had one a few times this year. But for the most part I've been able to get by, but my prop hate's me.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

7pntail said:


> Okay Bon--that picture got my attention --now I know where my Cali. mallards are going! And the water, looked better suited for my 21 foot North River jet boat. So another follow up question; what is the minimum water depth for running a Mud Buddy in a gravel/rocky river?
> 
> Again thanks all---I'm learning.
> 
> Okay, one more question Bon---public or private? If the former, you may see me on the Snake!


let me answer in reverse order...the Snake is public, but Glenn has a private place which I am sworn to secrecy as to its location...there are places off the Payette and Boise that are similar, the water is public, but the land and access is private..where they hunt and where they took pictures are two different matters 

I am not a mud boat expert but Rick put the boat on a submerged gravel road with a depth of ankle deep water to show me and the kids what flying mud looks like..but he has a short tail..fastest mud motor in CenTex

if you want Rick's contact info, let me know


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## Lucky Number Seven (Feb 22, 2009)

Rick is a big poster on MudBuddy Forums. He has a serious rig and seems that he knows how to kill ducks too.... There is a wealth of information on there and also on MudMotorTalk.com.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

Here’s two examples showing why a "mud rig" is necessary. My friend had scouted both spots. With the first, he road his "mud rig" in on the left past the island directly in front of the “spot” and parked right where my decoys are placed. After setting up, he backed out, went around the island and parked on a side channel where I had to put my boat. The only difference was his was empty. The trip around the island is probably about at half a mile (or more). His hike in was MUCH easier when carrying no gear. 

When I hunted it the next day, I had to load up my sled, hike in at least 300 yards (pulling the load), through muck, hammocks, across a couple of muskrat/beaver channels and through patches of leg grabbing switch grass…….TWICE…..to get all my gear in. Then when I was finished hunting (that day it was two mallards & two gadwalls), I had to make two more round trips to get things back to the boat.

I’m seventy and suddenly not quite as stupid. 

I must admit, it was very difficult to tell if anyone had ever been there. Yet, it is public and hunted hard. 

*”sled load from boat parked beyond the nearest tree line in the horizon”*









*”friend’s mud rig could park right between my decoys"*









*”layout blind’*









*”a mud rig would have eliminated a pack in to this different place, too”*


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## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

BonMallari said:


> let me answer in reverse order...the Snake is public, but Glenn has a private place which I am sworn to secrecy as to its location...there are places off the Payette and Boise that are similar, the water is public, but the land and access is private..where they hunt and where they took pictures are two different matters
> 
> I am not a mud boat expert but Rick put the boat on a submerged gravel road with a depth of ankle deep water to show me and the kids what flying mud looks like..but he has a short tail..fastest mud motor in CenTex
> 
> if you want Rick's contact info, let me know


Bon, c'mon you can tell me where the honey hole is. I won't tell!

I have learned the hard way, loose lips sink ships. I purposely don't ask specific's weather fishing or hunting. I have been "a friend " a few times and had folks in my hard earned spot the next day! 

I think the absolute worst thing a person can do is exploit trusted information.
Most of us who chase mallards or salmon (in my case) are used to hard work. 

Thanks Bon---- great pic


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Gunner2233 said:


> Can you send me your email. I tried to pm you but it wouldn't allow me to. I have some questions on a boat for you. Thanks


My email is [email protected]

I used to be a dealer but have been out of it for a little over a year.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

BonMallari said:


> My hunting partner in Austin is the CenTex dealer for Gator Trax boats and Mud Buddy motors, he uses a short tail version but I have been on it numerous times along with taking it out fishing with two adults and two kids..Very stable ride, the kids love the speed..this is a picture of my friend Rick (left) and Shane (Rt) and in the center is Glenn Foreman, the owner of Mud Buddy, picture was taken two weeks ago on the guys yearly Idaho trek on the Snake..I got an invite but had to go a week earlier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea, they hammered them. Isnt that Gary Kutac nxt to the motor?


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

dorkweed said:


> Jim, I know you and you're a very thoughtful and resourceful guy. I've got no qualms about you wanting to switch to a mud motor for your boat. That said, the main problem I have with the folks that have/use them is that they destroy habitat!!!! Just because you can go thru it without too much difficulty, doesn't mean that you really should!!!! I've been to too many spots via an outboard or by canoe that from there you had to hike in a ways..........usually because it was too thick to run a boat on and too soft to farm. The mud motor boys quickly made a sloppy, muddy quagmire of it and as a result less birds frequented that area. Don't get me wrong, they had a couple great hunts in there..........but at what cost????? Later.


Not totally true from what we have seen.. Guess it depends on what you concider destoying habitat? To be honest , this topic should have its own thread.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

mudd said:


> Yea, they hammered them. Isnt that Gary Kutac nxt to the motor?


might be I just assumed it was Glenn, because there were 5 of them up there but I do know the other two, definitely Shane and Rick


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Theres no need for a jack plate on a surface drive, the props are already surface driven. When properly set up and running on plane you should be able to see half the prop out of water when running.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

BonMallari said:


> might be I just assumed it was Glenn, because there were 5 of them up there but I do know the other two, definitely Shane and Rick


Gary is actually a very good friend of mine, hard to miss that ugly mug!


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

mudd said:


> Gary is actually a very good friend of mine, hard to miss that ugly mug!


I cant post the other pictures of all the dead geese because it might be a giveaway where they were....but since your friend is in the picture you know where they were too..plus I promised my GF that I would cool it on posting pics of dead animals


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

LOL!

Yea, sounded like they had a great time.


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## RedlegHunter (May 19, 2010)

So another follow up question; what is the minimum water depth for running a Mud Buddy in a gravel/rocky river?

I run my Gator Trax / Mud Buddy combo on some rocky rivers and creeks in TN and can run on plane in 4-5 inches of water without touching the botom with the prop. I need about 8 inches of water to take off from a dead stop with a hard bottom. If the bottom is soft I can get away with much less water. I added a rock guard to the skeg of my motor and it protects the prop completely from the big rocks, stumps, and logs I run over. It also helps to keep the prop from digging in quite as bad to the smaller gravel when running and the water gets skinny. I am running in the same depth water and shallower in TN with my mud motor that is was running in Alaska with a jet drive and am not having to worry about pulling a piece of gravel into the impeller in the skinny water or jamming a rock in the grate and disrupting the flow of water to the pump at a critical time. My boat is 18.5 feet long including the huntdeck and runs 27-28 with just me and 23 with a 3 man hunting load, 1-2 dogs, and 6 dozen dekes.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

> I think the absolute worst thing a person can do is exploit trusted information.


I agree with that. I have a trailer at a duck camp on the shore of the Mississippi River where I spend probably four days a week during hunting season. Fishing is a summer thing. 

My friend drives about two hours to get there and hunts for the day and drives home. I keep him up to date on water levels and patterns. He has hunted there for over five years and I have for three years. It is never easy. Most of the hunters at the duck camp are tight-lipped about where they hunt......for good reason. About all you hear is we went north, south or over that way.  

My friend's boat is bigger and faster than mine. We scout together sometimes, but it is more effective if we scout seperately and share information. We can hunt the Illinois and Iowa sides of the pool (resident and non-resident licenses). There is huge amount of cover to search and every year is different. Without "mud rigs" much of it would be inaccessible. 

*"view from the door'*


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## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

RedlegHunter said:


> So another follow up question; what is the minimum water depth for running a Mud Buddy in a gravel/rocky river?
> 
> I run my Gator Trax / Mud Buddy combo on some rocky rivers and creeks in TN and can run on plane in 4-5 inches of water without touching the botom with the prop. I need about 8 inches of water to take off from a dead stop with a hard bottom. If the bottom is soft I can get away with much less water. I added a rock guard to the skeg of my motor and it protects the prop completely from the big rocks, stumps, and logs I run over. It also helps to keep the prop from digging in quite as bad to the smaller gravel when running and the water gets skinny. I am running in the same depth water and shallower in TN with my mud motor that is was running in Alaska with a jet drive and am not having to worry about pulling a piece of gravel into the impeller in the skinny water or jamming a rock in the grate and disrupting the flow of water to the pump at a critical time. My boat is 18.5 feet long including the huntdeck and runs 27-28 with just me and 23 with a 3 man hunting load, 1-2 dogs, and 6 dozen dekes.



Interesting, I would have thought they were worthless in rock situations
I'd like to see one running the klamath one day!


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## Mallard Mugger (Jul 29, 2009)

KwickLabs said:


> I....Most of the hunters at the duck camp are tight-lipped about where they hunt......for good reason. About all you hear is we went north, south or over that way.


Use to think that way. Spent several times waiting for hours in the dark for someone to come that heard our shots after hours. The Halloween storm of the early 90s on the Mississippi was a fun one too. Got caught out in that. Not much we were going to do but sit it out as best as we could. This is of course all pre cell phone era.

We'd give general areas - the step, the S curve, the angel iron, Picnic table island, etc... The "x" was never fully given but general areas. NSEW was just to vague even given the landing we went off of. Great pic though. The memories of the duck shack came pouring back.

Back to topic though, I'm considering a mud motor just because of having to repare/replace Al props and/or fixing lower units that had SST props. I was thinking that with a rock guard on, the mud motor would be less maintenance. Any one have any thoughts about that?

Lower Unit torn apart regards,


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## freefall319 (Jan 31, 2010)

KwickLabs said:


> Here’s two examples showing why a "mud rig" is necessary. My friend had scouted both spots. With the first, he road his "mud rig" in on the left past the island directly in front of the “spot” and parked right where my decoys are placed. After setting up, he backed out, went around the island and parked on a side channel where I had to put my boat. The only difference was his was empty. The trip around the island is probably about at half a mile (or more). His hike in was MUCH easier when carrying no gear.
> 
> When I hunted it the next day, I had to load up my sled, hike in at least 300 yards (pulling the load), through muck, hammocks, across a couple of muskrat/beaver channels and through patches of leg grabbing switch grass…….TWICE…..to get all my gear in. Then when I was finished hunting (that day it was two mallards & two gadwalls), I had to make two more round trips to get things back to the boat.
> 
> ...


A little off topic but kwicklabs you are hardcore, I love it. Not many guys my age are willing to put in that kind of work. I hunt several area's on public ground that are flat amazing because of the hell you have to endure to get there. Good for you.

As for the motor, no help here. All I know is if you do get one be sure to get yourself and everyone else some ear protection. You can hear those guy's on the delta coming from miles away.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

7pntail said:


> Interesting, I would have thought they were worthless in rock situations
> I'd like to see one running the klamath one day!


You still want to try to avoid rocks, gravel, sand, any abrasive. Althought the mud motors are more "Robust" then outboards they can still be broke. Not to mention you will grind up expensive props. If Im familiar with a spot that needs to be crossed with rocks, gravel, sand, I will trim up as far as I can but the prop still has bite, carry some speed into it while on plane to carry me over it with the least amount of impact possible.... If thats possible. LOL


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Also, I personaly dont care to run any kind of rock guard because if I need to grind out of a spot the rock guard wont aloow you too. They will alsohurt you in the weeds IMO.


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## Gunner2233 (May 25, 2010)

New to the boat world was wondering if this was a good deal.Go-Devil surface drive Boat 16'x48 with Go-Devil 23hp surface drive Delta Waterfowl edition mud motor, w/galv.trailer.14" tires. Rearly used, Like new,many accessories $6000 obo.motor only has 16 hours on it. I can get it for 5000. it comes with blind, running lights, dog ladder and some other items. I just want to make sure this is a good set up before i pull the trigger on it. Thanks


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## RedlegHunter (May 19, 2010)

Gunner2233 said:


> New to the boat world was wondering if this was a good deal.Go-Devil surface drive Boat 16'x48 with Go-Devil 23hp surface drive Delta Waterfowl edition mud motor, w/galv.trailer.14" tires. Rearly used, Like new,many accessories $6000 obo.motor only has 16 hours on it. I can get it for 5000. it comes with blind, running lights, dog ladder and some other items. I just want to make sure this is a good set up before i pull the trigger on it. Thanks


You may find the boat a little under powered if you plan on putting a big load in it. For 1-2 people and gear should be fine with that motor, no gonna be super fast but will get you where you want to go in high teens I would expect. Not rear familiar with the GDSD motors but 5k sounds reasonable for that combo if it is good shape. The combo new would be about 9k for base boat/motor/trailer with no additional options based on GD website. The website also list that combo's speed to be 23.5 with 1 man.


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## RedlegHunter (May 19, 2010)

mudd said:


> Also, I personaly dont care to run any kind of rock guard because if I need to grind out of a spot the rock guard wont aloow you too. They will alsohurt you in the weeds IMO.



I agree the rock guard effects your ability to dig in mud. When I go to LA or someplace else I know it is soft bottom I take the guard off, only takes about 2 minutes to do. However the rock guard will help protect the prop when digging in sand from my experience as well as from what guys who run the Big O in FL have said.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

RedlegHunter said:


> You may find the boat a little under powered if you plan on putting a big load in it. For 1-2 people and gear should be fine with that motor, no gonna be super fast but will get you where you want to go in high teens I would expect. Not rear familiar with the GDSD motors but 5k sounds reasonable for that combo if it is good shape. The combo new would be about 9k for base boat/motor/trailer with no additional options based on GD website. The website also list that combo's speed to be 23.5 with 1 man.


Good advice. Sounds like a fair price but pretty much limited to a two man hunting rig.


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## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

so, lot's of expertise here---would you own this boat and motor? If so, how much is a fair deal? Seems over priced???

Again Thank's
http://modesto.craigslist.org/boa/2127858340.html


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

7pntail said:


> so, lot's of expertise here---would you own this boat and motor? If so, hpw much is a fair deal
> 
> Again Thank's
> http://modesto.craigslist.org/boa/2127858340.html


a 12 yr old boat and a 7yr old motor...no thanks...there are better deals than that on the Fuge, may not be in you state but I have seen them cheaper than that...but then that's California....


here you go its $ 4200 for almost the same set up and a newer model

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=737603&page=2


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

7pntail said:


> so, lot's of expertise here---would you own this boat and motor? If so, how much is a fair deal? Seems over priced???
> 
> Again Thank's
> http://modesto.craigslist.org/boa/2127858340.html


No, Id Never own that set up. Ive never seen a 16 ' W.E. run good with a surface drive. Some of the longer W.E. boats run "OK" with a Surface drive . 
Like I said, stay away from mod v hulls.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

BonMallari said:


> a 12 yr old boat and a 7yr old motor...no thanks...there are better deals than that on the Fuge, may not be in you state but I have seen them cheaper than that...but then that's California....
> 
> 
> here you go its $ 4200 for almost the same set up and a newer model
> ...


This actually might run well but notice they dont show what the transom looks like on the inside of the boat. Im guessing its a .072 , rivited hull. I can tell you that the transom will not hold up over time and most booger them up once they start to go.


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## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow what a wealth of knowledge! How about this one? thanks so much-- I appreciate the honest feedback! Would I drive 500 miles to get a great deal? yup! A thousand--nope. Thanks you so much for the knowledge. 

John

http://chico.craigslist.org/boa/2147146683.html


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

See is he will sell the boat and trailer without the motor and for how much. Although the Honda is a good motor the early Hypers had endless problems. First off they used an inferior. Belt from Good Year and will break all the time. This drive actually where the belt drives started getting a bad rap. I could be upgraded and how you tell is by pulling the cover then look to see if the belt has a straight cog or a ceveron cog pattern. If its the ceveron its junk. The drive tubs were smaller, the belt housings themselves were not very robust. Then there's the power trim, if it was upgraded to a Thompson actuator that's " OK" if not stay away from it because it was underpowered, freeze up when cold, then fail. It could even be when they used the plastic air cylinder which never worked worth a hoot and always broke the housings.

There's quite a bit of info on the earlier MB motors with failing trim units or broken frames too.


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Also, ask for pics of the Hull without the grass on it and a few shots of the bottom specificly the back half.


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## ripline (Jan 12, 2009)

Mudd,
If I didn't know better, I would think you know something about mud motors etc  
BTW, your avatar makes Diesel look big!!


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Ive been known to be seen around a Mud Motor or two. BTW, I just noticed that I need to proof read a little when typeing on my phone! Ugggggg

Yea, that pic does make him look big even though he's a pip squeak!


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey John

I got your email and tried to answer but it kept getting sent back to me for some reason so Ill answer here and hope you see it

The 1860 with the 31 GT

I guess Id ask to run it and see how it handles that hull. Not sure which manuf built the hull so pay close attention to the transom , knee braces, and corner caps for any cracks or signs of stress. Also look on the bottom for hooks , dents, etc. Not sure about what's needed to add reverse on the GT motors as I delt with PD and MB. but its not needed just a convenience, an *REAL NICE* convenience. Look closely at the prop and make sure its not burned up because youll pay $200 or better to replace it. Look for any oil leaks specificly the case cover on the starboard side of the motor. At 100 hours on the motor if it still has the old case cover it'll probably be leaking and need updateing/replaced. Run the trim through its full range of motion a coulpe times to make sure its up to snuff. 

Like I said, Id strongly suggest a test drive and bring a buddy or two to see how it runs loaded. 

Jim


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## labrd (Nov 26, 2010)

go to youtube and look up the cooper river mud run. The sand problem with the prop that is with any boat motor and the rock gaurd if u hit anything with out it u wish u had the gaurd.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

mud motors are the "local resident" duck hunter's worst nightmare. a local guy spends his life learning where the stumps are, where the milfoil is negotiable and how to "run the channel" in the dark. after his hunt, with his mighty strap of waterfowl, he tows the non locals back to the ramp with their toothless props and disabled lower units. 

then, *boom the mud motor is invented and every lard a$$ed dipweed from atlanta, chattanooga, huntsville, birmingham, nashville, columbia and parts unknown passes said local* on his way to his formerly private domain. 

just like 4 wheelers and now side by side atv's have enabled the "unfit" to hunt in a pit on the arkansas prarie, these rigs bring our backwaters into the unskilled and unlearned hands of any wannabe city boy or girl and her crew. some have said, "spinning wing decoys should be outlawed because ducks can be killed in greater numbers by the unskilled hunter." i say, "yes, outlaw motorized decoys as well as the motorized means of transportation that got all these fat boys off the couch in the first place." you know who you are, yep i'm talkin' bout you.

oh well, since it's adapt or die i think i'm goin 20' gator trax and 35 surface drive myself, regards!

john mc


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## mudd (Jul 22, 2010)

roseberry said:


> mud motors are the "local resident" duck hunter's worst nightmare. a local guy spends his life learning where the stumps are, where the milfoil is negotiable and how to "run the channel" in the dark. after his hunt, with his mighty strap of waterfowl, he tows the non locals back to the ramp with their toothless props and disabled lower units.
> 
> then, *boom the mud motor is invented and every lard a$$ed dipweed from atlanta, chattanooga, huntsville, birmingham, nashville, columbia and parts unknown passes said local* on his way to his formerly private domain.
> 
> ...


Cant beat em, join em! Cant say your stupid.


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## RedlegHunter (May 19, 2010)

Just following up for the OP...If you are still looking there are alot of boats for sale right now on Mud Buddy Forum classifieds and on the Refuge. The boats for the most part on the MB forum are Gator Trax's and Excels. MB bought Excel and developed their new shallow water edition boats, they are nice and run well especially since they are a MOD V designed mud boat and have triple taper chines so they corner almost as good as the Gator Trax boats.

.


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## 7pntail (Jan 20, 2010)

Again, thanks Jim and others for the information. Sorry it took me so long to reply, I was having a very rough time getting off the couch. 

Tak care All, john


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## Michiganwaterfowl (May 13, 2021)

MarkyMark said:


> I bet a longtail didn't work. A shortail mud motor would have helped a lot more. If you hunt the timber mostly I would strongly recommend the Mud Buddy HDR 40 EFI Timber King. The shortail will help with turning and if the boat is floating it will drive...


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