# Cancelation on buying a puppy



## B Barnes (Jan 9, 2019)

Hey guys I’m new to the forum but have been reviewing posts for the last 7-8 months in anticipation of getting another male black lab. I was curious how often it occurs that a puppy buyer backs out on the purchase of a pup? I put down a deposit and have my name in the hat for a litter that was born 5-6 weeks back. There were only two males with the sires owner taking the first pick and now the only remaining pup is destined for me. My problem is that for various and numerous reasons (temperament, personality, color, physical appearance etc.) I’m not really sold on my only choice. It’s not at all what I would picked given a choice. This will be my 4th retriever and I fully understand that there are always variations within a litter and you can’t pick and chose your exact requirements of your pup. Is it a terrible position to put the breeder in and decline the pup and forfeit a deposit? Please don’t flame me here I’m trying to be fair and do the right thing. 
Thanks!


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## championretrievers (Feb 7, 2008)

Yes it is a terrible position to put the breeder in when the pup is 6 weeks old.


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## Dirty Doug (Sep 4, 2017)

Real tough call for you. I can understand as you did mention color which can be huge. If you just don't think you can give the pup 110% from the beginning I would walk away and if you lose the deposit it is your call. On the other side of the fence my last pup I had 2nd pick of 4 dogs. I wanted a dark brown PERIOD. Out of all the pups I have ever bought I would not have taken this one.....but I wanted a dark brown. He is arguably the best dog I have ever owned. Good luck with your decision. Yes, you are not doing the breeder any favors....but ask....maybe they have someone waiting and all will be good.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

My best dogs were when it was my only choice. I felt lucky to get them and felt it was meant to be. You should have made that decision when they were born and not now when they are almost ready to go.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Buyer remorse. That is why there's a non-refundable deposit.


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

For whatever your reasons you now don't want this puppy.
It would not be fair to the dog( that you will have for the decade +) for it to go somewhere it is not wanted. Tell the breeder to keep the puppy and the deposit and hope for the breeder's and dog's sake that there were more people wanting puppies than pups produced,

Tim


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Breeder charges non-refundable deposit for a reason. Last thing I’d want is for a pup I bred to go somewhere it wasn’t wanted. 

Forfeit your deposit and move on.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

captainjack said:


> Breeder charges non-refundable deposit for a reason. Last thing I’d want is for a pup I bred to go somewhere it wasn’t wanted.
> 
> Forfeit your deposit and move on.


X2...............


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Happens all the time, actually IMO it reflects pretty good on the OP that he cares enough to ask. Most people in my experience, tend to just pull out no explanation; they just disappear never even tell the breeder.


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## Ted Shih (Jan 20, 2003)

Tim Carrion said:


> For whatever your reasons you now don't want this puppy.
> It would not be fair to the dog( that you will have for the decade +) for it to go somewhere it is not wanted. Tell the breeder to keep the puppy and the deposit and hope for the breeder's and dog's sake that there were more people wanting puppies than pups produced,
> 
> Tim


​I agree with Tim


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

It happens and if someone backs out for no good reason, I don't return the deposit that late in the game. But, as a caveat, if "last pick" does not like the puppy for a valid reason, I don't force them to take it or lose their deposit if they choose not to. If it isn't what they want re; temperament, looks etc, then I return or transfer the deposit. Pup has to be old enough to fairly evaluate however and not something silly or minor. And not just based on color either, if the person didn't specify that they just couldn't live with a particular color or shade up front, that's on them. I do weekly photos/videos for everyone with deposits, I try to make note if there's anything like a crook in a tail, umbilical hernia (which may very well pop up at 6 weeks or later), white toe/star, stuff like that, make note of it to the people so they are aware and nobody gets surprised. But, sometimes I don't see every single thing or something pops up late, or pup is timid with kids and that's not a good fit and it isn't the fault of the buyer either.


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## dlsweep (Dec 3, 2007)

Tim Carrion said:


> For whatever your reasons you now don't want this puppy.
> It would not be fair to the dog( that you will have for the decade +) for it to go somewhere it is not wanted. Tell the breeder to keep the puppy and the deposit and hope for the breeder's and dog's sake that there were more people wanting puppies than pups produced,
> 
> Tim


Well said Tim.


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## Gregg0211 (Feb 11, 2015)

My Ali bitch was the last pick of her litter and shes turned out to be MH/HRCH before the age of 3. I never laid eyes on her before the owner met me with her. Its great to have options, but its a crap shoot no matter what.


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

PM sent. Take a look


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## B Barnes (Jan 9, 2019)

Reginald said:


> PM sent. Take a look


Thanks for the thoughts. Unfortunately as a newbie I couldn’t respond until I have 10 posts.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I hope the deposit was substantial.


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## Thomas Running (Sep 19, 2011)

It is too bad you waited until week 6. But that is the risk that breeders take. When a person decides to have a litter there is always a lot of risks. Having someone back out at the last minute is just one of many. If it is a nice litter there should be no problem selling the puppy. Also consider the breeder could sell at a reduced price because of you losing the down payment. If the breeder is understanding and nice about it send them a gift certificate for a nice dinner and move on.


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## Lpgar (Mar 31, 2005)

I had 2 backout of my last litter. One supposedly changed his mind on the breeding because of a decission to keep dew claws. The other (a well known hunt test pro) caused huge grief as his backing out at 6 weeks effected to delivery of 3 of the puppies. When there is a change of heart of a breeding I would just assume keep the puppy until a home wanting it....actually craving it comes along. Luckily in both of the pups in the last litter their craving homes came before they were 7 weeks and the deliveries came together.


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

Ouch. If the puppy’s that awful, no question just walk off sans deposit, but I can tell you that I don’t believe in expert puppy picking and I know of plenty of last picks that became special dogs including Slider and Clooney-it’s extremely hard to rule a puppy out at 49 days and there’s very little guarantee that any puppy may achieve AA level and, if not, a well bred wash out will give you experience, knowledge, and at least a chance to reach whatever level you can from gun dog to NFC.


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

There have been special litters that have had a large percentage achieve AA titles but those litters are few, far between, and usually not available to mere mortals( and expensive)


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## Big Chief (Feb 4, 2018)

Obviously, this brings up strong feelings from breeders, and understandably so. I'm interested in hearing exactly what is is about this pup that makes you not want it. Puppies, IMO, are crap shoots, and even if the breeder is a former member of JoJo's Psychic Alliance, it is impossible for them to predict what that little pup will become.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Sounds like OP put down for a Black male, and there is no black male available. Neither the breeder nor Buyer should have any issue with the buyer not choosing to proceed with this litter. Sure the breeder can offer a yellow male or a black female or whatever is available. But the initial agreement was for a Black Male; that's not available. The Breeder can either refund or keep deposit for another litter, which does has a black male. No harm, No fowl but no one can expect a buyer to take a pup that isn't what was initially agreed upon. Now pulling out for other items that can't be controlled (temperament, appearance, etc.) a buyer should forfeit their deposit, but it's not in anyone interest for a buyer to take a dog they don't actually like. Much better for the pup to be placed with someone who will appreciate it.


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

I’m ok with someone backing out. I’d rather they not take the puppy then the pup not getting the attention it deserves or the owner constantly contacting me because he’s just not what he/she expected. I want the pup to be in it’s permant home and loved unconditionally.


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## championretrievers (Feb 7, 2008)

Hunt'EmUp said:


> Sounds like OP put down for a Black male, and there is no black male available. Neither the breeder nor Buyer should have any issue with the buyer not choosing to proceed with this litter. Sure the breeder can offer a yellow male or a black female or whatever is available. But the initial agreement was for a Black Male; that's not available. The Breeder can either refund or keep deposit for another litter, which does has a black male. No harm, No fowl but no one can expect a buyer to take a pup that isn't what was initially agreed upon. Now pulling out for other items that can't be controlled (temperament, appearance, etc.) a buyer should forfeit their deposit, but it's not in anyone interest for a buyer to take a dog they don't actually like. Much better for the pup to be placed with someone who will appreciate it.


Wouldn’t they have known this as soon as the puppy was born and discussed it at that time? Or did the dam owner decide to keep a black male recently? and the remaining pup was not the black? No one wants someone to take a pup they don’t want but it seems like this transaction is lacking a timely ending. I refund the deposit if the color or sex of the pup you want is not available but I do so right after the birthing unless the buyers states they want the color/sex that is available


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I think the OP should explain his reference to color? Was the second male a black or other color? If a black male was not available then the breeder did not meet his obligation. But color is known at birth. So what gives?
One black male sounds a little unusual unless chocolate factored, etc.


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## Torque_RV (Oct 8, 2018)

You should've made this decision 5 weeks ago. However, I've been in the same boat and was able to work with the breeder to transfer my deposit to a new breeding. Took longer but it was well worth it.


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## K Rocha (Apr 30, 2013)

There were only two males with the sires owner taking the first pick and now the only remaining pup is destined for me. My problem is that for various and numerous reasons (temperament, personality, color, physical appearance etc.) I’m not really sold on my only choice. It’s not at all what I would picked given a choice. This will be my 4th retriever and I fully understand .

it looks like he just doesn't like the pup choice he has . as the pup has gotten older it may have changed characteristics he was looking for, If that is the case I would give his deposit back and sell the pup to someone who wants it.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Wayne Nutt said:


> I hope the deposit was substantial.


Why? Do you believe the OP should be penalized? 

Just as the selection of the litter is a calculated risk, so is the placing/acceptance of a deposit -- by both parties.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

B Barnes said:


> Is it a terrible position to put the breeder in and decline the pup and forfeit a deposit? Thanks!


That would depend on the desirability of the pups. You're obviously not obligated to anything beyond forfeiting your deposit and the breeder now has the ability to sell the pup at a discount without losing anything financially. If it's a good litter on paper and priced well, selling the pup won't be an issue. If it's your cousin's hunting dog, well, possibly another story.

I wouldn't close on a pup who I didn't like and take the chance of it being a complete mismatch for me. 

When a breeder chooses this path they have to know what the eventualities could be, this being one. 

So far all the breeders who have responded have said they'd rather not send a pup somewhere that wasn't optimal, which would include you being not only accepting but excited about owning and training the dog. 

Puff puff pass. Be polite and don't ask for your deposit back. No sense burning a bridge with the person.


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Mark, I don't believe the reasons for selecting the pup at six weeks were based on anything but a personal one. That's ok. But the buyer should be willing to not ask for the deposit back. And given the late decision point, I believe the penalty (deposit) should sting.
I had a neighbor who had a deposit with Lyle S. for a Cha Cha X Cody puppy. I know the deposit was substantial. They decided for personal reasons they didn't want the pup. They simply wrote Lyle a letter saying they didn't want the pup and didn't even raise the question of the deposit. 

I wished they had talked to me first. I would have told them to take the puppy and give it to me for the difference between deposit and purchase price. I always miss out on deals like this.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Wayne Nutt said:


> Mark, I don't believe the reasons for selecting the pup at six weeks were based on anything but a personal one. That's ok. But the buyer should be willing to not ask for the deposit back. And given the late decision point, I believe the penalty (deposit) should sting.
> I had a neighbor who had a deposit with Lyle S. for a Cha Cha X Cody puppy. I know the deposit was substantial. They decided for personal reasons they didn't want the pup. They simply wrote Lyle a letter saying they didn't want the pup and didn't even raise the question of the deposit.
> 
> I wished they had talked to me first. I would have told them to take the puppy and give it to me for the difference between deposit and purchase price. I always miss out on deals like this.


Wayne, 

1. Nowhere do I read that the OP was requesting his deposit back. I've never considered a deposit a penalty if it is forfeited, just fair compensation for the seller should the buyer not complete the transaction. 

2. As someone who qualified my puppy buyers and required references from the buyers I didn't know, your suggestion of taking a pup and immediately reselling to someone else is more disturbing to me than someone being open and honest about dropping out of the deal.


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## IdahoLabs (Dec 21, 2011)

As an occasional breeder, I would rather a buyer be upfront and tell me if they didn't want the pup. At 6 weeks the deposit might not be refundable, but honestly I don't want someone taking a pup they don't really want. I realize that part of the retriever game is that sometimes dogs get resold because they are good and sometimes because they are not - I can't guess at a pups future and know it will always stay with the original buyer - but at the very least I don't want the pup starting out its life unliked and unwanted, or worse - resold immediately.

Frankly if I as the breeder had reservations about a pup being able to fulfill the purpose the buyer wants I would offer a refund. Does the breeder still think this pup is a good fit for the original poster?


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

I've run into more than a couple of people that have to have "two to select from". They just just state it up front and we decide if the check gets torn up or if they move onto the next litter after they are born. I don't cash deposit checks until I have a puppy for them. I am guessing he hasn't even seen the pups, that he just can't go through with it because his personality won't allow it, and then for sure don't do it because the puppy should always be wanted. The question is the late pull-out. Did the breeder decide later that he was keeping a pup later, then I would give him his deposit back if we had a "select from 2" agreement. If no previous agreement and he just decided late, then that's are what deposits are for unless they want to go to the next litter. Sometimes it does put a breeder in a bind if he was going to go say to a trial after the pups leave and doesn't want to leave a single one home. There also can be the inquiry on the end as in "what's wrong with the pup?" It depends on circumstances and attitude of the buyer. Most buyers have no problem waiting for the next litter. If they do, I would keep the deposit or maybe give half back. I have a situation now where I decided to keep one of 2 F pups, but I did when they were born, and I have a previous client that wants 1st pick only and more than one to choose from and they have not put a deposit down. They are going to have a hard time finding that situation because I already have deposits for future litters looking at later in the spring. I don't cater to the "first pick only" variety of client because I find it highly overrated and hard to say they know whats best so chances are they won't get a pup out of a gorgeous litter.


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

Mark, I have backed out of a litter once, and it was a great litter and it was a litter that I was using as insurance on a puppy where I was waiting on a promised “3rd black male” that may or not happen on a retry breeding that had previously failed to take place. At my age time was becoming limited in the puppy finding department and I was graciously accepted on two great breedings, well of course the risky breeding went well and I had my 3rd BM I apologetically backed out of the second and didn’t expect to get my very substantial deposit back but since there was a large waiting list and I was told that I “was making someone happy” , I had my deposit returned but I can assure you I didn’t expect it and knew from the getgo it was just cheap insurance so I would end up with a quality puppy. I wouldn’t suggest this type of scenario as a common practice and normally it would be quite expensive.


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## Jamesjackson (Oct 22, 2018)

I know it's a tough spot. I have bred and raised pups for 20 some years. And to this day my pups are the left overs or runts. But when it comes to the pups they change so much,and runts turn into biggest ones of litter. All I do is look at pedigree and performance of parents close my eyes and grab one. If you do your research right according to genetics and traits each pup has same chance. It's a crap shoot.


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## Ken Barton (Jun 7, 2010)

James -I totally agree. Pretty good post for the very first one.


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## taeicher (Jun 25, 2017)

I've never made the pick (other than indicating sex/color). I give the breeder information on my personality and what I want and don't want it a pup. The breeder has been around them for 8 weeks - I'll take their judgement over my 15 minutes of observation....


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