# First Junior Hunt Test Question



## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

Hello All - I am new to this board and this is my first post.

I am considering entering my 13 Month old lab into a JH Hunt Test in 2 weeks.

I have never even attended one of these and had a few questions.

Do you think its a bad idea to enter my dog the first time I ever come to an event or should I come watch one before entering? Are they open for people to come "Watch"?

How long does it usually run if it Starts at 8AM? Do I stay the whole time or until my run is over or either one? 

Will other dogs be close by distracting the running dogs or are they separated?

Also- How do "Drops" work on the JH Portion... Lets say my dogs gets the bird, comes out of the water, shakes, drops it accidently, picks it up and returns to heal and delivers to hand... is that a pass or fail? 

Suppose he drops the bird while running back out of excitement, picks it up and retrieves to hand?

Thank you for all the help... this is very new to me.

-DropinBack


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

welcome to the RTF dropback!
yes it would be good to watch first, but many do not. at least tell the marshal when you check in and watch as many dogs as able afore ya run yours.
Yes your gonna stay all day 'cause MOST juniors will do the land retrieves first for all the dogs entered. THEN judges will look at the pages and Call Back the dogs that did not crash and burn on the land test, for the water test. Bring a lunch.
Yes there will be lots of other dogs, and smells and trucks and noise and shot guns in the background and ducks from crates a quacking. It's gonna be so cool, you dog will be higher than you even seen.
Drops can be anything from a minor fault, hardly noted. To, if repeated hundreds of times with you standing above Rover yelling fetch, fetch, fetch, fetch! Your gone, sorry.

Have you read the regs and guidelines?
Has anyone seen your dog work, that has gone to a test?
It is more better to not enter until you know you can pass. It don't mean you will pass, dogs will be dogs. The thumb rule is if your dog is doing work above the level of test, enter the test. If you need to bring your prayer book and rosary beads to the running line, save the $75 and the gas in the truck and keep training.


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

Ken- Thanks for the response. I am certain he can do the 4 retrieves... but, there is a chance, especially with all the distractions, what he will get so excited that he drops the bird bc he will be running 10000 MPH haha.... but he will pick it right back up and return to me at heal, sit, and then give it to me. If thats a pass, he can surely do it. Is one drop a pass as long as they return to heal? 

What about bank running on the water retrieves?

Yes, i have read the rules... but they kind of contradict themselves haha... 

Thanks for your help. Any other opinions are greatly appreciated!


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## Spartazoo (Sep 28, 2011)

I am interested in JH tests as well. I just finished up SHR and want to move to AKC to do that as well. I will be watching this thread for details.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

DropinBack said:


> .... but he will pick it right back up and return to me at heal, sit, and then give it to me. If thats a pass, he can surely do it. Is one drop a pass as long as they return to heal?
> 
> What about bank running on the water retrieves?......!


yes, that is a pass. Even the "Junior Flop" can be a pass with some judges. That is when the junior handler lunges forward like a football reciever getting hands under duck as it comes out of dogs mouth just feet in front of handler. This can be very funny when the running line is sloppy and muddy and the handler is brand new and fashion challenged. Makes watching juniors fun!
and bank running. It is JUNIOR!! Most judges with try to have square entries into the water. But it happens. More often on the way back than on the way out. Unless your pup is a Golden Retriever.


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

DropinBack said:


> Ken- Thanks for the response. I am certain he can do the 4 retrieves... but, there is a chance, especially with all the distractions, what he will get so excited that he drops the bird bc he will be running 10000 MPH haha.... but he will pick it right back up and return to me at heal, sit, and then give it to me. If thats a pass, he can surely do it. Is one drop a pass as long as they return to heal?


That is a pass



DropinBack said:


> What about bank running on the water retrieves?


Good judges will set it up so that it is practically impossible for the dog to run the bank to the bird on a JH. That said, they might have to deal with the water they are given and it might be possible. It is not so much whether the dog will pass if it does it but do you want to let your dog know it is okay to do this. Lots of folks will decide it is not worth possibly teaching a bad habit and scratch their dogs if the test is cheaty. They should get wet on the water part but a great many pass who do not.


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

All great info... Thanks... keep it coming...

He will come sit next to me eventually... just is a factor if he gets so excited that he takes a circle around me on his way back... or drops and picks up... but if this is ok... he SHOULD pass...


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

Sound like you will have a lot of fun, try not be to nerves, better said then done:razz: When I first started, I did go to a few before I started running, but I am a control freak and wanted to know exactly what I was getting myself into. thinking back, it would of made no differencee, The water is fine and the people are vary nice. Try to find some time to watch the other classes run. Once I did that I was hooked and the folks I meet where already doing the reeling me in gestures. 
Have fun


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

how is your dog with live birds?


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

He is fine with live birds and dead birds and wounded birds... but wont they all be dead/launched birds in the JR? 

Unfortunately, he hasnt been around to many life birds... as this will be his first season hunting wild birds...


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## suepuff (Aug 25, 2008)

Don't forget....don't touch your dog until you get the bird from him. You don't have to have him sit in heel. He can come to you and you can take the birds from him.

After you signal the judge to have the birds thrown, you can't talk to your dog, until the judge calls your number. Then you can release him. Praise as much as you want on the way back.

Some clubs do have live fliers in Junior. 2/5 junior tests that I was in this year had them. In general, they save the fliers for the higher stakes.

Don't let your dog pull you to the line. He has to be under control.

Those are the main things you need to be aware of so you don't inadvertently get DQ'd.

Bring a whistle! Don't wear white or light colors!

HAVE FUN!!!

Sue Puff


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

DropinBack said:


> .. but wont they all be dead/launched birds in the JR? ...


it seems that is a club to club thing.
You should get at least 1 of your 4 retrieves hand thrown or kicked out of a tosser and then shot by 2 fellers with .12 gage shotguns. You could get 2 of these, one on the land set and one at the water. You may get none of these and oddly some clubs brag about that. What will happen is the club will provide live birds to the judges at the start of the event to do with what they will.


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

THANKS! 

"don't touch your dog until you get the bird from him. You don't have to have him sit in heel. " - Got it... this could easily have been forgotten. He will come to heal anyway, as this is how i have trained him. If i try to take it from him without him doing this... he may try to play tug-o-war...


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## Mark Teahan (Apr 1, 2012)

Does the dog have to wear a collar?


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## dtmanring (Aug 11, 2012)

And are the retrieves fairly seperated so they wont be really tempted to return to an old fall?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Mark Teahan said:


> Does the dog have to wear a collar?


in a word, NO
B U T
the pup may be restrained only by gently gripping a flat buckle collar or running a rope/leash under it. So, if you want to take advantage of this rule you must have a flat buckle collar on your dog.
If you do not want to take advantage of this rule you are welcome to run the naked.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

dtmanring said:


> And are the retrieves fairly seperated so they wont be really tempted to return to an old fall?


fairly?
yes.
still tempted?
Oh Yes!!!


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice thus far!


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Can I use a choke chain in junior?

/Paul


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

No choke chain, no pinch collar, no slip lead. Only a flat buckle collar. 

Meredith


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

mwk56 said:


> No choke chain, no pinch collar, no slip lead. Only a flat buckle collar.
> 
> Meredith


on what part of the grounds are you speaking of?


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

No choke chain?

/Paul


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> No choke chain?
> 
> /Paul


Bad peanut


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## Mark L (Mar 22, 2010)

DropinBack,

Ken has given you all the great advice anyone could ask for. 

My suggestion is that you train like the test, with people throwing the birds for you so they are not coming from your side. Have your dog get used to being in a holding blind and hearing all of the commotion as they move through a few blinds while other dogs are testing. Add some time with him sitting in his kennel while guns are going off and dogs are testing. Those are the things most people don't account for in training. (myself included)

We just ran a double header, and were dog #14 on day one. Peyton was wired by the time we were moving through the blinds from hearing everything while in her kennel. Even though we had worked excessively on her delivery during the two weeks prior, and she would hold the duck forever without dropping it, she dropped all of them on the test day. Of course she picked them right back up and delivered them. On the second day we were dog #2, and she did so much better with her line manners and delivery because she hadn't been listening to all the commotion. As soon as the test dog ran, we were out getting staged, so there was no real time for her to get amped up. 

As far as live flyers, we had at least one on both the water and land each day, and they were not always dead. I watched a few dogs go out and refuse to pick up the bird because it had a wing flapping. (most of us pay extra for the flap...) One bird in the water was alive enough to swim and dive in his feeble effort to avoid the dog. There were also more then a few dogs who refused to get in the water. One just ran around the pond barking at the duck and peeing on everything.

As far as collars go, I say if the rules allow it, which they do, hang on to that bad boy. No matter how steady your dog is in training, you don't want to fail because he got a little too excited and took off when you had the tools you needed to keep him under control. My plan was to try Peyton's last JH leg without holding her...Nope. I had that collar in my hand, because I didn't want to waste $75 on what would boil down to my poor decision.

Anyway, whatever you decide, good luck. 

Mark


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> on what part of the grounds are you speaking of?


up to the last holding blind...


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## BMay (Mar 3, 2003)

It worked for you again, /Paul


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## Centerfield Retrievers (Jan 28, 2007)

Be there early. Pay attention at the handler's meeting to how the test is run. Direct your questions or concerns to the judges at that time. Be sure to tell the judges it is your first test when you go to the line (they will often cut you a little slack.) If you don't pass-don't leave. Continue to watch the test and learn from other dog/handler teams. Go watch the higher stakes and just enjoy the experience and opportunity to observe.
Bring a whistle, a duck call and waterproof shoes/boots. Water for your dog, a chair for yourself and as mentioned food and drink.
Regarding the test, birds, water, distractions, terrain...Prepare for everything and expect anything!

Good luck!


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

My work here is done, I feel refreshed and smiling again. 

/Paul


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

BMay said:


> It worked for you again, /Paul


He gets one every time.


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## sunnydee (Oct 15, 2009)

Welcome to RTF. Below is my very first AKC junior hunt test (water series) and it was only 3 years ago. As you can see by my white hair I got a late start in this game but having a blast doing it. The very best of luck to you. I apologize for the camera work, it’s hard to get good help when you only have family to pick from.

http://youtu.be/d1cHW6r9qZQ


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

JepDog said:


> Bring a whistle, a duck call and waterproof shoes/boots. Water for your dog, a chair for yourself and as mentioned food and drink.
> Regarding the test, birds, water, distractions, terrain...Prepare for everything and expect anything!
> 
> Good luck!


It is customary to bring cookies, brownies or some other treat for the judges and other handlers when you run your first Junior test. Don't forget that or you will be ostracized from the HT community.


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks for the advice haha ...


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

Are spectators welcome?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

yes they are, dress in drab/dark colors. bring a chair, bug spray sun goo and raincoat.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

DropinBack said:


> Hello All - I am new to this board and this is my first post.
> 
> I am considering entering my 13 Month old lab into a JH Hunt Test in 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


We signed our first dog up for a NAHRA Started HT (basically the same thing as AKC Junior) without ever having seen one. My wife and I drove over to Spokane WA expecting the event to be on some big Polo ground, or something with a parking lot, grand stands, rest rooms and snack bars. As for the test, fortunately I had trained with a guy who had run a few so we knew what to train for. My dog earned two Started ribbons and a Title that weekend, so we were hooked. Good luck!


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## Duckquilizer (Apr 4, 2011)

DropinBack said:


> Thanks for the advice haha ...


That wasn't a joke, judges LOVE treats...

Editlease don't bring the "special" brownies, that was a disaster...


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Duckquilizer said:


> That wasn't a joke, judges LOVE treats......


after the last dog has run and the folks out in the field that have been tossing all day start lugging in the gear. pull a bucket like this out of your truck.


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## Matthew J. Ries (Jul 1, 2012)

Great thread! Has me more than excited for our first JH, but also lets me know how much more work we need to do!


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

sunnydee said:


> Welcome to RTF. Below is my very first AKC junior hunt test (water series) and it was only 3 years ago. As you can see by my white hair I got a late start in this game but having a blast doing it. The very best of luck to you. I apologize for the camera work, it’s hard to get good help when you only have family to pick from.
> 
> http://youtu.be/d1cHW6r9qZQ


LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!!!!!!!!
I glazed over this earlier and did not view! All the new kids need to watch this short vid! Great set up, decoys, duck calls, a "ducky" looking spot! It is just great! You musta been worried during that long hunt on the 2nd bird! and yes slap your camera man!!! You have a happy dawg!


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## TimFenstermacher (Sep 9, 2012)

DropinBack, if you haven't done so, you might want to get together with a training group at least once and simulate a junior test before you actually enter a real test. Most clubs have at least one monthly training day in which they do such simulations and many clubs offer the one free training day for potential new members. The reason this is important is that many times dogs act entirely different at a test than when you are training at home by yourself. There are so many distractions, smells, noises, people, dogs, etc.. One training day with a group where you are with people who know exactly how things go at a test can really help you and you will see how your dog reacts to everything. If all goes well then you can go into the test with much more confidence. If not then you know what things you need to work on to get ready. Best of luck, I'm sure you'll do fine!


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks for all of the advice. The test is OCT 6th... i will be sure to post about how it went! If it was a normal day, he would surely pass... but like everyone pointed out... with the distractions it is a whole new game!


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

All - Had the test today and passed. Thanks again for the advice.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Congrats on your pass!!! I have been following this thread to see all the advice you were given. GREAT info given so I did not add anything. Now what are you gonna do about your new ADDICTION ??


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

DropinBack said:


> All - Had the test today and passed. Thanks again for the advice.



Well Gee? How about a little bit more information?


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

DropinBack said:


> All - Had the test today and passed. Thanks again for the advice.




very cool!
snapshots??


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## hotel4dogs (Aug 2, 2010)

great job! congratulations!


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## dtmanring (Aug 11, 2012)

I just attended my first ever hunt test last werkend, and enterd my 10 month old pup in started, we passed sat and sun, and i had never attended one before. It was awesome, beware of the nerves, the will be peeking at the line, but go for it if ur pup can consistantly do 60 yard land and water retrieves, matbe a lil longer. Its awesome the cover at my test i went to was a just cut hayfield, so minimal.


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

Details - It was in Vienna, MD. When we arrived, my dog was OUT OF CONTROL on the leash... because he was so pumped up by the other dogs... walked him around a little, but him back in the truck, and went and watched the first couple of dogs... 

Brought him down when it was our turn for the land series. The first retrieve was about 50 yards in heavier cover. He did well, and brought it right back after a quick search. The 2nd was a live flyer, about 100+ yards... and our flier flew the wrong direction and was wounded at best when it fell after 5 shots... flapping... he picked it up and it flopped out after 10 yards but then got his grip and brought it back.

About 1/2 the dogs got to the water series. He did the water series perfect!

It was a great time and i was very please because it was not only my first time going to an event, but also my first time entering a dog and the dogs first time.

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE HELP AND ADVICE! We will be doing his next one on Nov 4th and hopefully finishing up his JH Title by the spring.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

DropinBack said:


> ....... The 2nd was a live flyer, about 100+ yards... and our flier flew the wrong direction and was wounded at best when it fell after 5 shots*... flapping...* he picked it up and it flopped out after 10 yards but then got his grip and brought it back.........


"we" would slip the gunners a cold bier after the test for such. nobody wants a hard to find bird when your at the line. bet it put a bit of pucker in the trousers didn't it?


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## Lady Duck Hunter (Jan 9, 2003)

Congrattulations! Glad you had a good time.


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## Mark L (Mar 22, 2010)

Congrats on the pass... Gotta love getting those live flyers that are still flapping while the dog is on the way.

Enjoy the ride and good luck on getting to a title by next spring.

Mark


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> after the last dog has run and the folks out in the field that have been tossing all day start lugging in the gear. pull a bucket like this out of your truck.


thats what bubba's truck is for...

/Paul


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## KEB (Jul 23, 2012)

Congrats!!!


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## Trinie83 (Dec 5, 2011)

Just curious if you dog still drug you to the line after walking him around and taking him back to the car. I had the same experience this past week with my 10 month old, and it seems like it's not uncommon but just wondering if he got better throughout the day (mine did not)!


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## DropinBack (Sep 24, 2012)

He didnt get better throughout the day... he did however act perfect whenever i would take the leash off of him to get ready to run the retrieve... just isnt used to a leash i guess


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