# Stirring the pot!



## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

When I first joined this forum I asked a ligitimate question about a HRC test. It was never, and repeat never a complaint, a question. Well, as a new guy the pack of wolves came out and attacked. Tried to eat me right down to the bone. I even got calls from my training partner telling me how they were bitching to him about my question, wow! I soon relaized how this forum worked so took it in stride and with humor. What was first started as my desire to learn turned into a feeding freenzy with me as the meat. The more I read the more I realized I wasn't special the newbies when asking a question mostly to get ate alive, this is normal here.

So, I now look at this as humor, with some very good advise mixed in once in a while. I have learned this...do not bring up the topic of:

1. High horsepower dogs because you will offend the "English" people or any other style of dog that thinks getting the bird when they have time is great, beside those dogs have great line manners.

2. Do not mention culling dogs....bad, all dogs are pets and have the right to organic snacks and a warm couch at night.

3. Do not mention the newest designer labs such as , English, Blocky Headed, Canoe, Pointing, Silver or what ever is next in line.

4. Do not have an opinion of what you demand in a dog and will feed, another words, your own standards because you will offend someone by your opinion. (It's call "strong" opinions) Remember even though these are your own opinions and standards you will offend. Gee I wonder if Lardy has standards of what he excepts???

5. Lastly, I have learned that I do not have to check this forum often here because just as my significant other hears things faster then lightning at her hair dresser, sure enough my training partner will get a call before this is even posted! 

I am no different than many on here, but very different than some. I do demand the most from my dogs and I make no excuses. There are some very good dogs and trainers out there. I envy their dogs and methods and strive to attain what they have achieved. Hence, I buy my dogs from accomplished Field Trailers with very good dogs. I don't believe re-inventing the wheel. These men have worked very hard and done way more in the trial game than I will ever accomplish. The money I paid for their top breeding is money saved in the long run.

I also can appreciate a good dog be it yours or mine. A good dog is a good dog. but......a cull is a cull.

Now let the wolves attack and the phone calls begin. Good luck with your dogs.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Pretty ironic, Mr. Backwater. 
Seems to me, you have been doing your fair share of piling on noobs,

And just what is the point of this thread?? Oh wait, I see..more piling on.


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

"Hence, I buy my dogs from accomplished Field Trailers..........."


How does a trainer's "field trailer" bear on the quality of his pups? I mean I suppose that many of the really good trainers also have nice trailers, but that seems a pretty superficial criterion on which to base the purchase of a puppy. Do you give the guys with nice dog trucks a look? Seems to me that a nice truck could be as indicative of the quality of the dogs as a trailer.


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

You are from North Dakota. Nuff said.


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## Tim McGarry (Jun 22, 2010)

Welcome to an internet forum. Change the name on the sign out front and they are all very alike inside.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

I am hugely offended by the chauvinistic slant of this: "Hence, I buy my dogs from accomplished Field Trailers with very good dogs. I don't believe re-inventing the wheel. These *men* have worked very hard and done way more in the trial game than I will ever accomplish." I mean really, get some enlightenment. Women's Lib, bra burning, right to vote, ring a bell? And sheesh, at least one of the breeder/owner/handlers of the dam of one of your pups is a she. Seriously offended. Seriously. Lucky I didn't report the post. But, you're a tenderfoot noob with apparent sensitivities so we'll just let it slide and hope you learn as you progress through your Stage Two.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Rainmaker said:


> I am hugely offended by the chauvinistic slant of this: "Hence, I buy my dogs from accomplished Field Trailers with very good dogs. I don't believe re-inventing the wheel. These *men* have worked very hard and done way more in the trial game than I will ever accomplish." I mean really, get some enlightenment. Women's Lib, bra burning, right to vote, ring a bell? And sheesh, at least one of the breeder/owner/handlers of the dam of one of your pups is a she. Seriously offended. Seriously. Lucky I didn't report the post. But, you're a tenderfoot noob with apparent sensitivities so we'll just let it slide and hope you learn as you progress through your Stage Two.


Two words: Mary Howley.

See other current thread.

Amy Dahl


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

HPL said:


> How does a trainer's "field trailer" bear on the quality of his pups? I mean I suppose that many of the really good trainers also have nice trailers, but that seems a pretty superficial criterion on which to base the purchase of a puppy. Do you give the guys with nice dog trucks a look? Seems to me that a nice truck could be as indicative of the quality of the dogs as a trailer.


I suppose the best retriever out there is behind someone's barn, hidden and only a few select people know about them. To me if you got NFC behind your name you BEAT someone and you didn't compete on a standard which changes on who judges. Again my opinion, many other are selling many, many puppies without the titles no issues with me, I'm not buying. They have the write to sell all they want, again my opinion not yours.

Oh I did forget, those offended by the use of a singular sex. Forgot to be politically correct again. Yes, one of my pups did come from a very nice woman with a very nicely PROFESSIONALLY trained dog. Dr. Nell is very nice, nothing but positive to say about her.

As far as the truck goes, you obviously never ran a pack a bear hounds. I did for 20 plus years never had a good or nice truck ever, too busy buying dog food. Same reason my dogs are trained by me and not a pro, can't write the check. Would love to put my dog on a pros truck than talk smack about how good my dogs is , but... I can't.


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

And yet he says he has a sense of humor. My oh my. For the record, NFC is in front of the name. And if you continue with the innuendos against those who use pros, well, good luck with your doggie endeavors.


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## BonMallari (Feb 7, 2008)

to the OP, I seem to remember just a couple of days ago, you were part of a contingent that you now put down, when a new RTF'er was asking how to train a dog to sit on a whistle without the use of an E Collar, you were taking some pretty good shots yourself at those trainers that wish to use alternative methods, instead of either leaving the thread alone or trying to help the man out..


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

Many excellent titled dogs came from untitled parents. Super Powder and Esprit's Out of the Woods are a few that come to mind of the not so distant past. Just because they're an NFC or NAFC doesn't mean they're going to produce great offspring.


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Your not a noob. You have a senior title on one of your dogs. Heck around here that makes you an expert.

/Paul


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> Your not a noob. You have a senior title on one of your dogs. Heck around here that makes you an expert.
> 
> /Paul



I thought you reserved that title for the guy who started the other forum?


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

Paul "Happy" Gilmore said:


> I thought you reserved that title for the guy who started the other forum?


Backwater has a senior title, not a senior pass. Guess he's the experts expert....

/Paul


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

I've always wondered if a lack of sunlight could cause "more interesting" topics.....might just be true.









The difficult part of analyzing the OP's intro is deciding whether it is satirical (or not). In searching for an explanation which might describe those perceptions, the only thing I could come up was this......_Venting is good for the "mole"._









For clarity in perceptions a visual seemed reasonable.









*Whack-A-"Newbie" (YouTube)*


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## Bluemax009 (Dec 26, 2013)

A lot of pseudo intellectualism. I'm a newb and follow the posters comments that talk down to people. It's always the same ones. Hey...at least they're consistent.


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## Daniel J Simoens (Jul 7, 2011)

Tim McGarry said:


> Welcome to an internet forum. Change the name on the sign out front and they are all very alike inside.


This!! treating newbs like newbs is not an exclusivity of RTF. Go read the comments section of a news piece regarding a controversial issue. the interwebs rule!


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## Cyclone (May 16, 2013)

My experience has been the opposite of yours. I'm a newbie on this board and I've gotten nothing but helpful suggestions to my questions. Here is what I've learned after watching this board for a few months.

1. Contrary to what people say, there are in fact dumb questions. And dumb questions often elicit harsh responses. 

2. Using the Search function can save a lot of time and helps newbies from asking questions that been discussed in detail in earlier threads.

3. Questions about training usually bring lots of helpful advice (but see 1 above). Non-training questions, such as those about silver labs, judges at tests, the effect of pro trainers on hunt tests, etc, are the topics that tend to bring out emotions and harsh comments. 

4. Most people don't know the difference between: your/you're, there/their, or to/too.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Come on folks lighten up. Cabin fever does not start until the end of February.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

swliszka said:


> Come on folks lighten up. Cabin fever does not start until the end of February.


BULL.... I have it pretty bad right about now


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## Rnd (Jan 21, 2012)

> 4. Most people don't know the difference between: your/you're, there/their, or to/too.


There's at least one that doesn't know the difference between: "trialer and trailer" 

Just stirring the pot


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## Marissa E. (May 13, 2009)

Bridget Bodine said:


> BULL.... I have it pretty bad right about now


That's because here in PA it's -3 degrees one day and hitting close to 60 the next. 
I can't even figure out how to dress to go outside let alone what I want to do today


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Rainmaker said:


> I am hugely offended by the chauvinistic slant of this: "Hence, I buy my dogs from accomplished Field Trailers with very good dogs. I don't believe re-inventing the wheel. These *men* have worked very hard and done way more in the trial game than I will ever accomplish." I mean really, get some enlightenment. Women's Lib, bra burning, right to vote, ring a bell? And sheesh, at least one of the breeder/owner/handlers of the dam of one of your pups is a she. Seriously offended. Seriously. Lucky I didn't report the post. But, you're a tenderfoot noob with apparent sensitivities so we'll just let it slide and hope you learn as you progress through your Stage Two.



You are offended he bought his dogs from Men? Sheesh.... talk about a bra burner..


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Backwater said:


> I suppose the best retriever out there is behind someone's barn, hidden and only a few select people know about them.


It happens. Regulars have heard this story by now…a long time ago my husband bought a coonhound, Akona Red Satan, up in Anoka Minnesota. The breeder, a man by the name of John Cogan, had a litter of Labradors at the same time. The parents were chained to the fence. One of those puppies was given away in payment of a debt. I forget the details, but I think it grew up to be a bit difficult to manage and ended up with Tony Berger. Became a legend in the breed

Come to think of it, nah, you wouldn't have wanted that dog. Folks said Tony was the only person who would have been able to train him. 

Amy Dahl


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

Ahhh now to sit back and enjoy the reading! Making sure from now on to use "unisex" terms, promise.


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## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

Backwater said:


> When I first joined this forum I asked a ligitimate question about a HRC test. It was never, and repeat never a complaint, a question. Well, as a new guy the pack of wolves came out and attacked. Tried to eat me right down to the bone. I even got calls from my training partner telling me how they were bitching to him about my question, wow! I soon relaized how this forum worked so took it in stride and with humor. What was first started as my desire to learn turned into a feeding freenzy with me as the meat. The more I read the more I realized I wasn't special the newbies when asking a question mostly to get ate alive, this is normal here.
> 
> So, I now look at this as humor, with some very good advise mixed in once in a while. I have learned this...do not bring up the topic of:
> 
> ...


This all coming from a guy that hasn't even read the breed standard for a lab. Wow.


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## Trent Goree (Aug 10, 2005)

Cyclone said:


> My experience has been the opposite of yours. I'm a newbie on this board and I've gotten nothing but helpful suggestions to my questions. Here is what I've learned after watching this board for a few months.
> 
> 1. Contrary to what people say, there are in fact dumb questions. And dumb questions often elicit harsh responses.
> 
> ...


I've had similar experiences as you. I ask questions and get honest answers. Some I agree with and some I don't. Also, when I reply to a post, I try to add some sort of value. However, just because one gives and answer that the person questioning doesn't agree with, doesn't mean they're hounding you or throwing you to the wolves. I try to take all with a grain of salt because very few people on here actually know who I am, so I don't take it personally. Plus, if I don't like it, there are plenty other forums that I could go to and be "that guy" over there.


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## Trent Goree (Aug 10, 2005)

Rnd said:


> There's at least one that doesn't know the difference between: "trialer and trailer"
> 
> Just stirring the pot


And don't forget another words/in other words
and write/rights


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## SjSmith (Oct 25, 2011)

its one thing to use a wrong word now and than but when this unpunctuated jibberish gits posted up i have a hard time siferin it


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## Rainmaker (Feb 27, 2005)

SjSmith said:


> its one thing to use a wrong word now and than but when this unpunctuated jibberish gits posted up i have a hard time siferin it


I LOVE your sig line.


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## Gun Dawg (Dec 18, 2010)

Yo Backwater,
Sorry, off topic. I just noticed your tag line.
I train with a littermate of "Raven", nice animal. He's running Quals now...

You’re blessed with extremely well bred dawgs. NO excuses


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Thing I've learned about dogs from people who insist on buying dogs out of parents with NFC in front of their name; is that no matter how many times they are bred; very few if any of those offspring will have an NFC in front of their own name, heck very few if any will have an FC or AFC in front of their own name, most won't have MH, HRCH or MHR behind either. On the other hand a trainer who has produced these type of dogs, is highly likely to produce more dogs with these titles...So if anything it makes more since to be buying the proper Trainer, than worrying about who your dog might be out of ...Just saying


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## Jeffrey Towler (Feb 17, 2008)

Backwater said:


> When I first joined this forum I asked a ligitimate question about a HRC test. It was never, and repeat never a complaint, a question. Well, as a new guy the pack of wolves came out and attacked. Tried to eat me right down to the bone. I even got calls from my training partner telling me how they were bitching to him about my question, wow! I soon relaized how this forum worked so took it in stride and with humor. What was first started as my desire to learn turned into a feeding freenzy with me as the meat. The more I read the more I realized I wasn't special the newbies when asking a question mostly to get ate alive, this is normal here.
> 
> So, I now look at this as humor, with some very good advise mixed in once in a while. I have learned this...do not bring up the topic of:
> 
> ...


I don't understand the reasoning of your post. Why stir the pot?


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

Jeffrey Towler said:


> I don't understand the reasoning of your post. Why stir the pot?


I am thinking he got out of his bed the wrong side this am and needs a good dose of Vitamin D. I don't know what prompted this OP but it is dangerous "stirring the pot" as you called it especially on this forum. 
Everyone on this forum has retrievers with varying degrees of success, different training methods whether they train themselves or not, whether they buy a dog from the best but all of us love our dogs in our own way. We covet how we train and like to preach it is the only way. The Newbie (like me) needs to read between the lines and garner what you can from each post that will suit you and your dog or just read b/c it is interesting. Respect for each others comments goes along ways. I have no way of knowing who you are or what your training experience is when you post on this forum.... but this OP is definitely interesting!!


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## helencalif (Feb 2, 2004)

Somewhere in this thread someone said something about having the NFC title and getting only the best. At least that is how I read the post, so I have some thoughts on that. 

The dogs who win the national events are worth noting and remembering. Winning a national or being a finalist is an awesome accomplishment.

However, as has been said here and elsewhere, there is no guarantee that a national winner will be a great producer of talented pups. 

Often if the national winner is a male, he becomes the popular stud dog of the day. Thus, there will be a lot of breedings with different bitches. It takes a number of years to find out if the stud dog can produce talented pups from his breedings. When successful, the stud dog seems to get the credit and the dam is forgotten. We need to keep in mind that the bitch and the dogs behind her bring as much to the table as the popular stud dog. 

Not every puppy in a litter is going to be exceptional. They may have the potential, but to realize that potential it depends on where that puppy goes -- who buys the puppy, who trains it, and the ability of that trainer to bring out the pup's potential.

Off my soapbox,
Helen


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## Jeffrey Towler (Feb 17, 2008)

helencalif said:


> The dogs who win the national events are worth noting and remembering. Winning a national or being a finalist is an awesome accomplishment.
> 
> However, as has been said here and elsewhere, there is no guarantee that a national winner will be a great producer of talented pups.
> 
> ...


Great Post. I always try to get pups out of Bitch's with strong FC titles in their background.


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## Gun Dawg (Dec 18, 2010)

Helen,

Dam straight, Spot on.....

When successful, the stud dog seems to get the credit and the dam is forgotten. We need to keep in mind that the bitch and the dogs behind her bring as much to the table as the popular stud dog.
Not every puppy in a litter is going to be exceptional. They may have the potential, but to realize that potential it depends on where that puppy goes -- who buys the puppy, who trains it, and the ability of that trainer to bring out the pup's potential.

Oh & now we've really derailed the original post

I met Don a few times last season at some FT's. I'd like the opportunity to talk dawgs w/you sometime.

Jamie


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## The Snows (Jul 19, 2004)

Gun Dawg said:


> We need to keep in mind that the bitch and the dogs behind her bring as much to the table as the popular stud dog.


Totally agree!


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## firehouselabs (Jan 23, 2008)

cyclone said:


> my experience has been the opposite of yours. I'm a newbie on this board and i've gotten nothing but helpful suggestions to my questions. Here is what i've learned after watching this board for a few months.
> 
> 1. Contrary to what people say, there are in fact dumb questions. And dumb questions often elicit harsh responses. Yep!
> 
> ...


 Those that post in a manner that is illiterate, complete nonsense, or in poor grammar- should expect to be thought of as a) either a third grader b) a recent immigrant or from another country were english is not their first language or c) lack the brains or work ethic to even bother with typing in a correct manner.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Uh oh Raina, better re read your last line!


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## Gun_Dog2002 (Apr 22, 2003)

This thread is useless without pics....

/Paul


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## Dave Plesko (Aug 16, 2009)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> This thread is useless without pics....
> 
> /Paul


Where's the rabbit with a pancake on it's head when you really need it!

DP


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

Gun Dawg said:


> Yo Backwater,
> Sorry, off topic. I just noticed your tag line.
> I train with a littermate of "Raven", nice animal. He's running Quals now...
> 
> You’re blessed with extremely well bred dawgs. NO excuses


Yes John has two littermates as well, both qualified already. She is much better animal than I am trainer. I make no excuses either, come hunt with her anytime, ducks or pheasants, she set the standard for me, amazing animal. I should be ready to run the qual this summer, breeding her now to one of the best dogs I have ever been around, "Dealer" directly out of Ranger. He has the horsepower too, this litter should be breaking in the womb! Just the way I like em!

After getting her, I just assumed most field trial labs are all like her, not so. She raised the bar for me, I like her.


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

helencalif said:


> Somewhere in this thread someone said something about having the NFC title and getting only the best. At least that is how I read the post, so I have some thoughts on that.
> 
> The dogs who win the national events are worth noting and remembering. Winning a national or being a finalist is an awesome accomplishment.
> 
> ...


Well they repeated the litter which produced my Raven dog, couldn't afford one this time! Must have been somehting there for an accomplished retriever man such as John Stracka to repeat the breeding!


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

Jeffrey Towler said:


> Great Post. I always try to get pups out of Bitch's with strong FC titles in their background.


Jeez, now you sounding like me! I agree.


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## Matt McKenzie (Oct 9, 2004)

One thing I've learned after coming around here for while is to read more and post less. I've found that posting on forums is much like spoken conversation. Often those with the least to say talk (or post) the most.


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## Bluemax009 (Dec 26, 2013)

Firehouselabs is one of the pseudo intellectuals I talked about...... Right on time...


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## HPL (Jan 27, 2011)

Rnd said:


> There's at least one that doesn't know the difference between: "trialer and trailer"
> 
> Just stirring the pot



Bingo!!! Finally!!


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## forhair (Feb 4, 2013)

Nuff said, nuff asked, nuff answered, no benefit to anyone. start more nuffness whenever you like, but…………..?


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## john fallon (Jun 20, 2003)

Gun_Dog2002 said:


> This thread is useless without pics....
> 
> /Paul


You think Pics would do it ?.....

john

BTW in my estimation there are only a few GOOD pot stirrers on this forum;-)


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## Oldfield Retrievers (Feb 9, 2009)

I think my truck is nice.....anybody want to buy a really really grate pup I have tide up behind the barn, if you prefer, I'll let my wife sell it too ya.


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

john fallon said:


> You think Pics would do it ?.....
> 
> john
> 
> BTW in my estimation there are only a few GOOD pot stirrers on this forum;-)


No! Really. I find that hard to believe!!!! Just a few!


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## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Backwater said:


> When I first joined this forum I asked a ligitimate question about a HRC test. It was never, and repeat never a complaint, a question. Well, as a new guy the pack of wolves came out and attacked. Tried to eat me right down to the bone. I even got calls from my training partner telling me how they were bitching to him about my question, wow! I soon relaized how this forum worked so took it in stride and with humor. What was first started as my desire to learn turned into a feeding freenzy with me as the meat. The more I read the more I realized I wasn't special the newbies when asking a question mostly to get ate alive, this is normal here.
> 
> So, I now look at this as humor, with some very good advise mixed in once in a while. I have learned this...do not bring up the topic of:
> 
> ...


One thing I have learned while in this game is usually those with strong opinions have very little knowledge.


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

DRAKEHAVEN said:


> One thing I have learned while in this game is usually those with strong opinions have very little knowledge.


Your right I do have very little retriever knowledge but I do know a good dog when I see one, as well a cull when I see one. I ran bear hounds for more than 20 years. In fact my first ever retriever went 5/5 at the senior level, then missed on two qualifying events and she just turned two, my first ever retriever. Trained by me with absolutely not one pro day session, much less living on a pro truck. I have so much to learn but promise you this....you will see more of me in the future. Hunting is my first priority, competition second, but I do love the trial game/people I have met along the way. 

I noticed your smack on some one who has joined this forum in 2005 and thousands of posts, yet don't seem to see any FC AFC listed under your name??? As far as strong opinions go, what do you have, "blow in the wind attitude?" I promise you when I have almost a decade at this like you, I won't be posting on a board talking smack my dogs will do it for me. No excuses.

I also noticed that you sir, strongly opined that I have very little knowledge, when you have neither run aginst, watched my dog go, competed against, hunted with, nor trained with me or my dogs. Perhaps you fit the bill quite well of having very little knowledge.

I also have a pretty good sense of humor and have enjoyed this forum thus far. This thread has generated much entertainment values for others as it has me with over 3,000 views. I'd be more than happy to shake anyone's hand that enjoys these dogs as much as I do, I'm addicted bad and love the sport. Since my first post and the feeding freenzy that followed I have taken a "I don't give a sh...t attitude to most here. I sure am grateful to those I have trained with as they shared their knowledge with me, learning as I go.

Good luck with your dogs.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Humility is a really, really good virtue.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Sharon Potter said:


> Humility is a really, really good virtue.


Which raises the question are there any bad virtues? ;-)

Are some virtues better, hence more virtuous than others?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

EdA said:


> Which raises the question are there any bad virtues? ;-)



 Well, no....but some are "gooder" than others.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

I strongly recommend that for a good dose of humility go run some field trials, it will make you want to hit the trail.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Sharon, I just want you to know, I'm MORE HUMBLE THAN YOU! So There!

Amy Dahl


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

afdahl said:


> Sharon, I just want you to know, I'm MORE HUMBLE THAN YOU! So There!
> 
> Amy Dahl


Amy, I'll see your HUMBLE and raise you a Patience.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Sharon Potter said:


> Amy, I'll see your HUMBLE and raise you a Patience.


H'm, I'm getting so I've been around awhile, does that count? (Go away Ed, I know I can't compete with you.)

Seriously, I never used to be patient but having seen a lot of things and had them work out OK helps me not overreact.

Amy Dahl


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Another thing to ponder, how tasty is humble pie?


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

EdA said:


> Another thing to ponder, how tasty is humble pie?


It's far better than crow.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

afdahl said:


> H'm, I'm getting so I've been around awhile, does that count? (Go away Ed, I know I can't compete with you.)
> 
> Seriously, I never used to be patient but having seen a lot of things and had them work out OK helps me not overreact.
> 
> Amy Dahl


 Amy, with some of the shall we say, "interesting" dogs I get here, I had to either learn to be very patient or turn to drinking. Fortunately, patience won.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

EdA said:


> Another thing to ponder, how tasty is humble pie?


I'm on a very restricted diet, so I try to think ahead and avoid having to eat such things. Don't always succeed, of course.

Amy Dahl


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Sharon Potter said:


> Amy, with some of the shall we say, "interesting" dogs I get here, I had to either learn to be very patient or turn to drinking. Fortunately, patience won.


In my case, ibuprofen wins. With some of the, shall we say, mishaps I've had along the way, leaving their mark. Most days drinking is not an option (although a customer gave me a really nice bottle of single malt so I'm working on the ibuprofen dependence with the help of a great physical therapist).

I have an interesting dog now, given up by owner after he bit too many people. I might want to have a chat with you after I get to know him. Big handsome Peake, suspect issue is resource guarding with owner as resource.

Amy Dahl


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## Oldfield Retrievers (Feb 9, 2009)

My strong opinion is now that.......... I only listen to "week" opinions for good advice.


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

afdahl said:


> In my case, ibuprofen wins. With some of the, shall we say, mishaps I've had along the way, leaving their mark. Most days drinking is not an option (although a customer gave me a really nice bottle of single malt so I'm working on the ibuprofen dependence with the help of a great physical therapist).
> 
> I have an interesting dog now, given up by owner after he bit too many people. I might want to have a chat with you after I get to know him. Big handsome Peake, suspect issue is resource guarding with owner as resource.
> 
> Amy Dahl


 Valium could be another option. My problem is that I don't drink and refuse to take anything except for a rare ibuprofen (maybe five or six a year).

Hope all goes well with the Chessie. I'm here if you want to chat. Watching over puppies born last night, so am pretty well tied to the place for the next little while.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Oldfield Retrievers said:


> My strong opinion is now that.......... I only listen to "week" opinions for good advice.


That can be very time consuming.
Instant gratification fan regards


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## TroyFeeken (May 30, 2007)

Backwater said:


> Your right I do have very little retriever knowledge but I do know a good dog when I see one, as well a cull when I see one. I ran bear hounds for more than 20 years. In fact my first ever retriever went 5/5 at the senior level, then missed on two qualifying events and she just turned two, my first ever retriever. Trained by me with absolutely not one pro day session, much less living on a pro truck. I have so much to learn but promise you this....you will see more of me in the future. Hunting is my first priority, competition second, but I do love the trial game/people I have met along the way.
> 
> I noticed your smack on some one who has joined this forum in 2005 and thousands of posts, yet don't seem to see any FC AFC listed under your name??? As far as strong opinions go, what do you have, "blow in the wind attitude?" I promise you when I have almost a decade at this like you, I won't be posting on a board talking smack my dogs will do it for me. No excuses.
> 
> ...


Probably a bit of a foot in mouth syndrome you had right there. Drakehaven has forgotten more about dogs than you know.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

cakaiser said:


> And just what is the point of this thread?? Oh wait, I see..more piling on.


I disagree Charlotte. 

The OP's "point" is to be a blowhard who scratches checks for nicely bred pups while name dropping.


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

KNorman said:


> I disagree Charlotte.
> 
> The OP's "point" is to be a blowhard who scratches checks for nicely bred pups while name dropping.


Oh...Ok
I stand corrected. lol


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

KNorman said:


> I disagree Charlotte.
> 
> The OP's "point" is to be a blowhard who scratches checks for nicely bred pups while name dropping.


Guess you can't read, said really don't give a sh...t. Enjoy your dogs!


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

There is nothing quite like the RTF in the winter.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Thank Goodness!


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Rick_C said:


> There is nothing quite like the RTF in the winter.


RTF in the summer?


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

Dman said:


> RTF in the summer?



Difference is, in the summer everyone complains about "unnamed" judges, "unfair" tests, complains about having no water to train on, or land to train on, or a good dog to train, or a training partner to train with, yada yada yada. In the winter, with nobody else to ruffle their feathers, people mainly post to complain about other posters.


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## Jeffrey Towler (Feb 17, 2008)

Rick_C said:


> There is nothing quite like the RTF in the winter.


Very True;-)


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## yellow machine (Dec 7, 2005)

I wish the OP would read this thread and respond. I think he accomplished what he set out to do. You know there are some members you just blow by and not read. Backwater just made my I could give a S_ _ _ list. Too much winter wheat dust you inhaled?


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

back,
a friend once told me, "any dumbass can buy a nice $100 bottle of wine, what takes talent is buying a nice $8 bottle of wine."

i am not sure there is a correlation between buying dogs and buying wine. with your high standards and fine breedings it is certainly reasonable for all here(or is it hear) to expect a great deal from you!


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## Mary Lynn Metras (Jul 6, 2010)

There is nothing like RTF all year!!! Backwater needs some Vitamin D!! OP provided something to read and kill time when the weather is not nice!!! I always find the longer the post goes the worse it gets with comments!IMO


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

roseberry said:


> back,
> a friend once told me, "any dumbass can buy a nice $100 bottle of wine, what takes talent is buying a nice $8 bottle of wine."
> 
> i am not sure there is a correlation between buying dogs and buying wine. with your high standards and fine breedings it is certainly reasonable for all here(or is it hear) to expect a great deal from you!


Any bottle of yellow tail. A great Australian wine cheap and good. Especially the Merlot.


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## Rnd (Jan 21, 2012)

duk4me said:


> Any bottle of yellow tail. A great Australian wine cheap and good. Especially the Merlot.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kiOuroHPxRQ


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

duk4me said:


> Any bottle of yellow tail. A great Australian wine cheap and good. Especially the Merlot.


Does it come in a six pack or magnum??


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## Backwater (Jul 10, 2013)

roseberry said:


> back,
> a friend once told me, "any dumbass can buy a nice $100 bottle of wine, what takes talent is buying a nice $8 bottle of wine."
> 
> i am not sure there is a correlation between buying dogs and buying wine. *with your high standards *and fine breedings it is certainly reasonable for all here*(or is it hear*) to expect a great deal from you!


 First I must assume you speak for yourself and others here who have low standards!.......... and by watching most of the hunt tests I have attended, low standards are very common place. Some very good dogs there, but far and few between. The trials, DIFFERENT story, very good dogs, wow! is all I can say, top notch dogs. To me a trial dog and a hunting dog are the same for me, I train the same.

Second, these and I repeat these ARE NOT my breeding's, read, look what they are out of. I did my homework, I'm pretty darn smart and bought very good dogs. *I HAD NOTHING to do* with their breeding, I wrote a check, period. I will not allow the serial posters here, to drag me into this crap by remotely implying I had anything to do with these fine pups other then buying them. Note: not one of the breeders I went to, nor their trainers, post one thing on this forum, and nor will I once the weather even begins to rise up out of the negatives here. If you can post thousands of posts how the heck do you have time to train or hunt?

I watched these breeders dogs run and all I knew was I wanted what they had. They had No ads, no BS, no smack wanting to sell pups, I watched their dogs go, and go they did, when they said back dirt in the face, those dogs moved, driven, horse power, I wanted it. Then I watched many at the hunt test, NOT ALL, many, and they needed corn in front of their nose to move three feet, not hard to figure out what I wanted. Let me make this clear, the very day I find a different breed, or breeding that has more desire or can do more, I will move these down the road and buy a pup from you. I don't care what color, breed, or sex the dog is, if they can do it better I want it. This is why I was so successful treeing bears as a guide, if someone was treeing more bears than me, I didn't bad mouth them on a internet forum I bought pups from them. 

I am just as happy seeing you win or this guy win, don't care. What I do care about is dogs that do their job, no excuses of the water is too cold, the scenting conditions are bad, or whatever the reason is for a dog not getting the job done. I live in a very cold state and retrieving in ice water is the expectation here. (oh forget high standards again, sorry!)


If you are that interested in my dogs or myself come on up and hunt in North Dakota and see for yourself what I and my dogs are about. I do SOME competitions but I am first and foremost a hunter. Sitting in a lawn chair with a nice drink in my hand, under an sun umbrella watching a pro run my dog isn't my cup of tea, so you will be waiting a long time to see what you are looking for. I would rather fail the test or get dropped from the trial with my own, trained by me dog, my thing.

And.....it also takes a dumbass to buy a poor bred dog and expect great things. Please read before posting. If this was the case why not go to the pound to get your dogs? I clearly stated I am a poor trainer and new at retrievers so I need very well bred, talented dogs. I learned many years ago running bear hounds, probably nothing you would know about, what it takes to make a bear dog. Many do not make it, but stacking your odds by line breeding on very good dogs puts the odds in your favor...not to mention the pleasure of a high horse power dog.

It doesn't take much to look at the records of successful dogs and trainers. It doesn't take much to go watch those people run, watch their dogs and make a decision on what type of dog you want to either hunt or compete with. Did I offend the designer breeders with the dogs take take longer to do one retrieve then the high horse power ones do when doing a quad? Probably so, live with it, my opinion, we all feed what we like.

There is nothing so expensive as a cheap tattoo or a cheap dog.

Best wishes with your dogs!

PS it is ...here.

Disclaimer: I tried carefully to use unisex terms throughout this posts so as to not offend any gender, sexual orientation, or political affiliation.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

i don't know anything about "bear dogs".

i have low standards. i hope my wife's feelings are not hurt by this statement.

if i lived in north dakota i wouldn't own a lawn chair either. but i would have a drink!

i use a hat in the sun. i think umbrellas are for rain. i don't have an umbrella.

i got my tattoo in a facility run by our county. it is ugly.

my dogs are slow mentally and physically.

my dogs hate water so i try to get them to run around it.

i don't hunt. hunting is not nice.

how do i know a breeding is poor until i train a dog from it?

if my dogs had a pedigree and i saw a title on any of the dogs on that pedigree, i would white it out.

it makes me feel good when everyone wins.

i don't drink wine.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

roseberry said:


> i don't know anything about "bear dogs".
> 
> i have low standards. i hope my wife's feelings are not hurt by this statement.
> 
> ...


This! But I do drink wine!


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## Pals (Jul 29, 2008)

...............


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## Vicky Trainor (May 19, 2003)

Ok, it seems that this thread has gone beyond being meaningful to the RTF members. 

Thread closed.


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