# Tulsa FT



## John Gassner

First two series of the Derby are over. Single flyer, and then a double.

Callbacks; 1,2,4,5,9,11,13 to the third series.


John


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## Gerard Rozas

Wow! Single and a double and done by 10:30.
And with an hugh entry of 13 dogs! 

Judges must have a plane to catch. :shock:


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## John Gassner

Third series in the Derby is a long water double. Long bird is approx 300 yards.

I doubt if they have a fourth series!


John


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## John Gassner

Open is now doing a poison bird blind. Not sure about callbacks.

Derby was over about an hour ago. Three series. Only two dogs finished.

Congratulations to dog # 4 for first place and making the Derby list.

Dog #5 Firemark's Million Dollar Baby (Haley) took second and now has 13 points.

This thread will now become the official Judy and Becky love fest! :wink: 


John


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## thunderdan

John,

Can you explain the poison bird blind, specifically where the posion bird is in relation to the line of the blind. I am just curious.


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## Paula Richard

John Gassner said:


> This thread will now become the official Judy and Becky love fest! :wink:
> 
> 
> John


And Paula!!!!!! :wink: Might as well add Melanie to the list too!!!!

Congratulations to both dogs. Wow, must have been some derby.

Paula


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## Bait

Paula Richard said:


> John Gassner said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread will now become the official Judy and Becky love fest! :wink:
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> And Paula!!!!!! :wink: Might as well add Melanie to the list too!!!!
> 
> Congratulations to both dogs. Wow, must have been some derby.
> 
> Paula
Click to expand...

Yeah, John. Might wanna add "Little Miss Spelling Bee" :roll: to the list. You know, being a Pilot daughter and all. :wink:


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## Biesemeiers

Dogs dropped after first series of the Open: 2,6,7,9,22,24,27,30,37

Now running a double blind with poison bird, then pick up the poison bird. 

I believe Brian said the poison bird was in the middle of the two blinds. But not sure...I guess I wasn't paying that close of ear attention to his description.


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## Becky Mills

OH YEAH BABY - LET'S HEAR IT FOR HALEY!!! WOOHOO!
How's that John? Heaven forbid I disappoint you.


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## K G

> Wow, must have been some derby.


Must have been some derby _field_...... 8) 

Half the field of 13 gone after a single and a double and only two finish a three series derby?

Sounds like now is the time to have a young dog that will reliably pick up two birds regards,

kg


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## achiro

K G said:


> Wow, must have been some derby.
> 
> 
> 
> Must have been some derby _field_...... 8)
> 
> Half the field of 13 gone after a single and a double and only two finish a three series derby?
> 
> Sounds like now is the time to have a young dog that will reliably pick up two birds regards,
> 
> kg
Click to expand...

SO are you saying that as a judge, you couldn't set up 3 series that could eliminate 11 of 13 very good dogs?


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## Guest

Go Mike & Haley! I can't help but retell the story about when Mike called to inquire about a pup. He assured me she would _never, ever_ see a field trial or hunt test. 

Don't you just hate people who don't tell the truth? :twisted: :lol:


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## achiro

John Gassner said:


> Open is now doing a poison bird blind. Not sure about callbacks.
> 
> Derby was over about an hour ago. Three series. Only two dogs finished.
> 
> Congratulations to dog # 4 for first place and making the Derby list.
> 
> Dog #5 Firemark's Million Dollar Baby (Haley) took second and now has 13 points.
> 
> This thread will now become the official Judy and Becky love fest! :wink:
> 
> 
> John


Just because the winner wasn't a golden doesn't mean it's ok for you to only give the name of the second place dog. :wink: 

4 Wing Magic's Standpipe Moon Frank Price Frank Price
5 Firemark's Million Dollar Baby Michael Castelli Michael Castelli

Congrats to Frank


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## FOM

WAY TO GO FRANK!

Glad to see this time the dog is the _right _color! :wink: 

FOM


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## K G

> SO are you saying that as a judge, you couldn't set up 3 series that could eliminate 11 of 13 very good dogs?


Nice attempt at a twist, Russ! :lol: 

I'm saying that if they only finished two dogs in a five bird Derby, then there were MORE THAN LIKELY only *two* dogs in _that_ field _really ready_ to run _that_ Derby.

_*That*_ is what I'm saying. I'll also say that you will NEVER see me set up a single as a SERIES in a 13 dog field.

*NEVER.* Write it down.

I'd almost be willing to bet that those judges would have LOVED to have thrown a four-series/eight-bird Derby.

kg


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## John Gassner

Hey Russ, I just give the info I get. The folks that owned the non-Golden didn't tell me about their dog. Fortunately the nice Golden owner told me about it making the Derby list.

I can assure you that Ron Battman sets up very challenging tests. Not sure about the depth of the entries.

John


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## Guest

John Gassner said:


> I can assure you that Ron Battman sets up very challenging tests.


Though I'm not sure his name has two "t"s? 

Hellooo, sweetness. :twisted:


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## K G

> I can assure you that Ron Batman sets up very challenging tests.


I have no doubt....nor would I expect you to comment on the field.

I wouldn't either had I run the test.

kg


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## John Gassner

Melanie Foster said:


> John Gassner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that Ron Battman sets up very challenging tests.
> 
> 
> 
> Though I'm not sure his name has two "t"s?
> 
> Hellooo, sweetness. :twisted:
Click to expand...

Little known fact about Ron and Stephie.....originally when they ran only Goldens they had an extra "T". Those in the know.............know 8) 


Johnn


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## cpayne

There were only 10 starters and 7 went to the 3rd series. 

Did they get any answers from the single.......no. Did they on the 2nd series double yes. The single/double scenerio did not conflict with each other. The single was on the east side of a grown over fence row and the double was on the west side angling away from the fence line.

The 3rd series double was a very nice double, but maybe a bit overkill for the field (if you wanted 4 placements). However, I thought there would have been a couple others finish. 

CP


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## Biesemeiers

Open callbacks: 1,4,5,8,10,12,15,18,20,21,23,25,27,29,31,34,35,36

Schrader has 12 of 18 back to the 3rd series.


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## achiro

K G said:


> Nice attempt at a twist, Russ! :lol:


I thought you'd like that! teehee! :lol:


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## achiro

John Gassner said:


> Hey Russ, I just give the info I get. The folks that owned the non-Golden didn't tell me about their dog. Fortunately the nice Golden owner told me about it making the Derby list.
> 
> I can assure you that Ron Battman sets up very challenging tests. Not sure about the depth of the entries.
> 
> John


It's just that the poor labs never get any respect around here!


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## Paul Rainbolt

18 called back to the water blind in the open.


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## Judy Chute

> It's just that the poor labs never get any respect around here!/quote]  ..chuckle.. :wink: ..given that...
> 
> Congratulations!!! Derby 2nd Place, Firemarks Million Dollar Baby ** .."Haley" ....and ...Michael J Castelli ..with 13 Derby Points per John Gassner
> 
> Derby Win at 13 months, Derby Win at 14 months ...
> 
> Congratulations, too, to Melanie ..for all of her wonderful Firemark Golden Retrievers..
> 
> Hey Mike!! ...in your spare time  load "Haley" picture on the K9 Data.. such a very beautiful girl..
> 
> ..."official Judy and Becky (Golden Retriever 8) ) love fest!" regards,
> 
> Judy


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## Judy Chute

cpayne said:


> There were only 10 starters and 7 went to the 3rd series.
> 
> Did they get any answers from the single.......no. Did they on the 2nd series double yes. The single/double scenerio did not conflict with each other. The single was on the east side of a grown over fence row and the double was on the west side angling away from the fence line.
> 
> The 3rd series double was a very nice double, but maybe a bit overkill for the field (if you wanted 4 placements). However, I thought there would have been a couple others finish.
> 
> CP


...any further details of the "overkill" on the double? ..thanks..


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## JHinze

Any news on the Amateur??


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## John Gassner

Judy Chute said:


> cpayne said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were only 10 starters and 7 went to the 3rd series.
> 
> Did they get any answers from the single.......no. Did they on the 2nd series double yes. The single/double scenerio did not conflict with each other. The single was on the east side of a grown over fence row and the double was on the west side angling away from the fence line.
> 
> The 3rd series double was a very nice double, but maybe a bit overkill for the field (if you wanted 4 placements). However, I thought there would have been a couple others finish.
> 
> CP
> 
> 
> 
> ...any further details of the "overkill" on the double? ..thanks..
Click to expand...

Judy I think just the fact that it was approx. 300 yards with an 
almost 200 yard swim for the memory bird was what Chris was referring to.


John


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## golden boy 2

There were actually 11 starters, 8 labs, 2 goldens, 1 chessie.

3rd series was run off the middle of a dam in a triangle shaped pond which was very large with lots of stumps and old dead trees. The guy shot it with a range finder and thought that the long bird was close to 300 yards and the go bird was around 200. The go bird was an angle entry swim(75 yards) and up a hill, gunner was not visible till they got half way up the hill. That bird was thrown towards the long gun.

The long gunners were about 15 yards off a tree line, throwing up the hill and when you throw a hen mallard against the treeline it was difficult to see, the dogs had to take most of the water to be on line, the wind was blowing hard and pushing the dogs to the shore. Dogs had to swim past several flooded stumps, then exit and run at least 150 yards through brush and high grass without seeing the gunners, most dogs beached early got lost on the hill and ended up back at the old fall, of all things after the test dog picked up, a rooster pheasant walked between the go bird and the memory bird. That was not a factor it was a tough test and it separated the men from the girls, and the girls won!


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## K G

Sounds like a good series to finish a trial with!

kg


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## Judy Chute

Wow.....what a test ..for Derby :shock: .. both young retrievers did very well to say the least... Well earned First and Second Placements..

Huge Congratulations to the "girls" !!  , 

Wing Magic's Standpipe Moon, Frank Price ...and 

Firemark's Million Dollar Baby, Michael Castelli 

Great series description  

Judy


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## John Gassner

So Mike, what % of Labs entered in the Derby finished? Chessies? Goldens? How about % of Firemark retrievers? :wink: 

John


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## achiro

K G said:


> Sounds like a good series to finish a trial with!
> 
> kg


KG, with all due respect, I disagree. My OPINION is that a test that results in elimination of all but 2 dogs in the THIRD series of a DERBY, didn't work out as well as anyone SHOULD have hoped. Hell, why not run a 4th and eliminate the last two so that the club doesn't have to pay for ANY ribbons. :twisted: Please don't take this as bashing the judges, things happen, but I would hope that even they wish there had been a different result.

On another note,
The undertone(or overtone) of a few posts in this thread is that the other dogs were not "worthy" to be there. To be clear, there were some fine dogs in the field. At least one has derby placements I believe. Its not fair to the other dogs, owners, and or handlers to make comments like that. Give all the credit in the world to the dogs that finished but please don't downplay the talent level of the ones that didn't. :wink:

All dogs can make you look silly at times regards,


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## Guest

achiro said:


> My OPINION is that a test that results in elimination of all but 2 dogs in the THIRD series of a DERBY, didn't work out as well as anyone SHOULD have hoped.


Now I'm confused. Is it your OPINION :wink: that the judges should have scratched their third series before the last dog ran and "dumbed down" their water marks so more dogs could find the birds?

I'm not saying the dogs that did not finish were not quality dogs. Perhaps they just were not performing at their best on this particular day. I don't think that means judges need to simplify the test to award more placements. Points need to mean something.


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## golden boy 2

I have ran 3 derbies with my little girl, she has two 1st place finishes and a 2nd, in one of her wins only 3 dogs finished out of 26. I am more prouder of these 3 points than the previous 10, it was a hell of a test and it ate them up and spit them out.

Gassner are you talking about stats like, 100% of the chessies failed this derby, 88% of the Labs failed and only 50% of the goldens failed.


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## Patrick Johndrow

Russ and Keith, your ridiculous little opinions has been noted 

Thank you both for your participation in the Tulsa FT


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## K G

> KG, with all due respect, I disagree. My OPINION is that a test that results in elimination of all but 2 dogs in the THIRD series of a DERBY, didn't work out as well as anyone SHOULD have hoped. Hell, why not run a 4th and eliminate the last two so that the club doesn't have to pay for ANY ribbons.


My comment was that it was a great test to finish *A* trial with....I didn't say it was the one they should have finished *THIS* trial with. Since I wasn't in the chair, it's hard to say.

Your sarcastic point is well taken, but the judge's job is to test to the level of the field but make the points well earned. After a single and a double, they probably realized they could finish the trial with a strong test and let the chips fall where they may. And for the record, the ribbons are already paid for. I'm pretty sure Ron Batman would like to have awarded all of them if he could have.



> The undertone(or overtone) of a few posts in this thread is that the other dogs were not "worthy" to be there. To be clear, there were some fine dogs in the field. At least one has derby placements I believe. Its not fair to the other dogs, owners, and or handlers to make comments like that. Give all the credit in the world to the dogs that finished but please don't downplay the talent level of the ones that didn't.


Since I feel called out here, I'll gladly explain my position.

First off, Russ...to say that one of the 13 dogs entered had Derby placements does _nothing_ to legitimize the entry of the other 12. It's not a question of "worthiness." It's a question of being _able_ or _qualified_. Any dog over six months old and under two can run in a Derby. The youngest dog entered in this event was a year old; the oldest will age out in three weeks. Seven of the 13 entered were out of untitled breedings; two are out of FC/AFC titled breedings on both sides; two are out of FC/AFC or FC sires; the dog that won was out of an NFC sire (ages out in July) and second went to a FC-sired dog with a MH dam (ages out in August). According to EE, nine were Labs with two Chessies and two Goldens. These are facts; infer what you want from them, but more interesting is the fact that only 10 started the trial. That's sort of unusual; 23% of the entries don't run, but only 13 are entered and 10 are needed to start in order to award RFTN derby points. I point all of this out to say that ON PAPER, this ain't the strongest Derby field I've ever seen in my life. Fact, not opinion. Just because a dog is entered, doesn't mean it's qualified. Which 10 started? We won't know 'til we see the results, I suppose. _That_ may be _very_ telling in itself.

Derbies run in cycles. One year, you'll have multiple dogs with multiple points in every trial. The next year, you have a hard time getting 10 starters so the points will count. Funny how we don't have any discussions like this when the entries are heavier and more qualified. :wink:

kg


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## cpayne

Alright enough pissn and moanin from the peanut gallery about the derby.

Qual Results
1st #15 Carnelian's Ms Leader O Bob Lindgren H Bill Schrader
2nd #23 Spellbinder's Hex OJane & Gary Edwards H Bill Schrader
3rd #5 Sunrise's Splendor of Autumn O Tony & Sheril Allen H Bill Schrader
4th Didn't get the dog Handler Jay Stine
RJ American Revved Up Ford O/H Dennis Butler
J RockErin Scottish Patriot O Joseph McCann H Chris Payne
J RockErin Red River Ruckus O/H Judi Carter


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## achiro

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Russ and Keith, your ridiculous little opinions has been noted


 :roll:


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## Paula Richard

Judy and Becky:

Two more Goldens getting JAMS in Q.

Congratulations to *ALL* dogs that have placed or finished!!!!! :wink: 

Paula


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## achiro

Melanie Foster said:


> achiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> My OPINION is that a test that results in elimination of all but 2 dogs in the THIRD series of a DERBY, didn't work out as well as anyone SHOULD have hoped.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm confused. Is it your OPINION :wink: that the judges should have scratched their third series before the last dog ran and "dumbed down" their water marks so more dogs could find the birds?
> 
> I'm not saying the dogs that did not finish were not quality dogs. Perhaps they just were not performing at their best on this particular day. I don't think that means judges need to simplify the test to award more placements. Points need to mean something.
Click to expand...

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I don't think it should have been scratched. What I said was that I didn't agree with KG's assessment. Just re-read that part of my thread that you just quoted, feel free to tell me where I said we should scratch or dumb down a test.


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## K G

And then he went back and edited (still has a "tense" problem...  ) his post to include me, Russ. I don't know whether to feel honored, annoyed, or NGAS! :lol: 

One last thing about that Derby....I understand a dog popped and handled in the second series of the Derby....dog popped, handler threw up an arm (no whistle), dog went to the bird. Judges called the dog back to the third series, giving the dog the benefit of the doubt for "confusion." Can anyone _who was there_ clarify what happened so that we can get the straight skinny instead of someone's imagination running wild?

Been there, done that (but not at Tulsa! :wink: ) regards,

kg


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## Becky Mills

How 'bout them jammin fluffy dawgs! Yeehaw!
Geez, this could turn into a full time job.


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## Paula Richard

Becky Mills said:


> How 'bout them jammin fluffy dawgs! Yeehaw!
> Geez, this could turn into a full time job.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cpayne

KG,

The dog in question when the handler, questioned the judges. It was called confusion.

Not the way I saw it but I wasn't judging.

Chris


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## K G

Roger that. Thanks, Chris.

kg


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## Chad Baker

*congrats*

That's the way to make the derby list Frank!!! Go Piper!
I want to know how that off colored dog of Frank's did?
The one that thinks he black!
CB


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## Judy Chute

Paula Richard said:


> Judy and Becky:
> 
> Two more Goldens getting JAMS in Q.
> 
> Congratulations to *ALL* dogs that have placed or finished!!!!! :wink:
> 
> Paula


Congratulations!!!!  

DFR RockErin Scottish Patriot** "Wallace", Joseph McCann, H Chris Payne ........and, 

NDC NMFR RockErin Red River Ruckus *** "Red", O/H Judi Carter

Besides talent, both of these RockErin "boys".. are just gorgeous. 

As Paula says, Congratulations to all that placed or finished...also I would like to add...to all that trialed. 

We have 12" of new hard, crusty snow here...I so wish we could get out and train..at the very least... this has been tons of fun ..watching the results come in. Thanks for posting..


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## cpayne

Thank you Judy! Red also made to the 3rd series of the Amatuer.

Chris


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

congrats to Brian Freeland and his Dog Lottie who is also my 11 mo old's mom on winning the Am.


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## okvet

Congrats to Frank and Brian---two training buddies both getting wins!

WTG guys!
todd


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## Pete Marcellus

*Achiro wrote:*



> Now you're putting words in my mouth. I don't think it should have been scratched. What I said was that I didn't agree with KG's assessment. Just re-read that part of my thread that you just quoted, feel free to tell me where I said we should scratch or dumb down a test


Russ, maybe you should go back and read Melanie's QUESTION. There was a question mark after her comment, she was asking you a question, NOT making a statement and putting words in your mouth. 

Pete


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## achiro

Pete Marcellus said:


> *Achiro wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're putting words in my mouth. I don't think it should have been scratched. What I said was that I didn't agree with KG's assessment. Just re-read that part of my thread that you just quoted, feel free to tell me where I said we should scratch or dumb down a test
> 
> 
> 
> Russ, maybe you should go back and read Melanie's QUESTION. There was a question mark after her comment, she was asking you a question, NOT making a statement and putting words in your mouth.
> 
> Pete
Click to expand...

Somehow, I'm pretty sure Mel and I can get our conversation figured out on our own.


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## Pete Marcellus

> Somehow, I'm pretty sure Mel and I can get our conversation figured out on our own.


It certainly didn't appear so, at least on your end.

Pete


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## achiro

Pete Marcellus said:


> Somehow, I'm pretty sure Mel and I can get our conversation figured out on our own.
> 
> 
> 
> It certainly didn't appear so, at least on your end.
> 
> Pete
Click to expand...

Alright, whatever Pete. Anyway, you got an opinion on the subject or are you just here to give me crap?


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## john fallon

> Great series description


Do *those who were there *consider the "description of the test", given on page 2, to be relatively accurate. . .in that as narrated, on the Go bird , the gunner was "retired" for 125yd of the 200yd mark—And that the Memory bird was a crosswind, cheatie, "retired in route", 300 yd hen Mallard... that was difficult to see because of a non-contrasting background?


john


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## Bayou Magic

john fallon said:


> Great series description
> 
> 
> 
> Do *those who were there *consider the "description of the test", given on page 2, to be relatively accurate. . .in that as narrated, on the Go bird , the gunner was "retired" for 125yd of the 200yd mark—And that the Memory bird was a crosswind, cheatie, "retired in route", 300 yd hen Mallard... that was difficult to see because of a non-contrasting background?
> 
> 
> john
Click to expand...

Wow! I thought there might be some discussion about the little Tulsa derby, but never this. 10 eye witnesses will give you 10 different accounts. Here is mine:

11 dogs started.

The distance to the go bird is accurate. I shot it with a laser and the bird boy was 198 yards. Throw was angled back.

Distance to the memory bird is not accurate. I tried to shoot it with the laser but could not get a reading on the bird boy, so I shot the tree line behind them. The tree line was 378 yards (average reading), and I estimated that the memory bird was 30 yards or so in front of it. The throw may have been slightly angled back. My superior, but vastly eroded math skills, tell me the mark was about 350 yards.

Visibility of gunners from dog’s perspective: Go bird, I think, was visible most of the way, but there was most likely some distance at the end of the swim and exiting the water the dog could not see the gunner. However, I didn’t swim it, so I’m not certain.

Memory bird was probably out of sight for the middle half of the distance, possibly more. That means that about half of the swim (last half) the gunner was not visible. However, the go-bird gunner was very visible. Dogs had to know where they were going and be confident to get to the memory bird. 

Visibility of birds: Go-bird, no problem. Memory bird – just what I would expect with a 350 yard mark – tough, but visible. 

Cross wind: affirmative.

Cheaty memory bird…yes sir, buy only for about 80 yards of the swim. Sharp angle exit. The entry was not cheaty. Dogs that wanted to cheat and square the bank were channeled toward the go-bird gunner. Wind also pushed them that way.

Tough test, but no tougher than most that you see these days.

Huge congratulations to my friend and training partner Brian Freeland for WINNING the AM!!! He and Lottie ran a great trial and deserved the win.

Thanks everyone for the congrats on Piper’s win and derby list. She may be a NutCase, but the little girl can mark and has a big heart.

Also, congrats to Mike and Haley. That little golden is a force and one tough little girl dog marking machine.

Frank


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## Paul Rainbolt

1) 20% of the dogs finished the derby that's average in my opinion. 

2) Gunner being out of sight(not retired) on the way to a derby mark is normal on land and water, as long as gunners are in plain sight at the line for both sends.

3) ignornant opinions from people with no experience in field trial judging , handling and training are what they are.

Am Placements 
1st jason flemming
2nd roger byrd - Rooster
3rd lori Morgan
4th martha mccool- babe
rj Martha McCool- Boomer
J- Bozeman-Cody
J- Ingram- Willy
j -?

open
1st Schrader- Bozeman Dog
2nd Schrader- Truman
3rd Barb Howard- Prime
4th Bozeman- Dena
Js beismier 
Knutson 
sorry cant rember the rest

I got to tell it was sure nice to have a small trial. Thanks to all the workers, judges and handlers.


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## Bayou Magic

Paul,

*Brian Freeland won 1st in the AM.*

fp


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## Gun_Dog2002

I heard they had an out of order flyer parrot, with a hooked beak macaw as the go bird...

/Paul


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

yes brian freeland won the AM with lottie.Lottie is my pups mom and she has some nice pups.Brian kept one that will be running derbies and others have them that are running derbies also pretty soon and they arent even a year until end of month.


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## K G

> 1) 20% of the dogs finished the derby that's average in my opinion.


With all due respect, Paul, I don't think we want to get into quantitative percentages justification with regard to the number of "finishers" in a FT stake, _especially_ in a minor stake. Will there always be exceptions? Sure....but those exceptions usually have a ready explanation.

When did we last see 14 dogs finish a 70 dog Open regards,

kg


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## achiro

Tulsa Slim said:


> 1) 20% of the dogs finished the derby that's average in my opinion.


I hadn't thought of it this way. You are correct but I would be concerned if any judge
1. Planned ahead in a small entry that only x number of placements were going to be given. 
2. Went into a trial planning on eliminating 80% of the dogs running.
This is pretty much the point of my earlier comment. I certainly don't think the judges WANTED to give only 2 placements when they set up the 3 series.


Tulsa Slim said:


> 2) Gunner being out of sight(not retired) on the way to a derby mark is normal on land and water, as long as gunners are in plain sight at the line for both sends.


Did anyone complain about this?



Tulsa Slim said:


> 3) ignornant opinions from people with no experience in field trial judging , handling and training are what they are.


Even IF anyone posting in this or the other thread fit your description(and I don't see anyone who does that I know of), I'm not sure how productive comments like yours are? Why not tell folks where you disagree with them? ESPECIALLY people with no experience, it seems could benifit from constructive discussion of the subject.




Tulsa Slim said:


> I got to tell it was sure nice to have a small trial. Thanks to all the workers, judges and handlers.


Is it true you were wearing a "Schraderite" hat? Cause if you were, that would be pretty funny.


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## Patrick Johndrow

Russ, 

For the record there are not any current members of the Tulsa Retriever Club that are Schrader clients so you comments are out of date; secondly the opinions expressed concerning the derby are ignorant, uninformed or badly informed…not stupid….just ignorant. Lastly, if you have a burr under your saddle about the way the Tulsa Club conducted this trial pick up the damned phone and call Paul but this innuendo laced posting is bullshit


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## Ken Guthrie

Boy am I happy I stayed home this weekend.

Remembering the good ole' days when the Tulsa trial was in Wagoner. The Midnight rodeo was just down the road. :wink: 

Glad I missed the Schraderfest regards,

:lol: :lol:


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## Judy Chute




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## Ken Guthrie

Judy Chute said:


>


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

schraeder trains on those grounds,He should have won.


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## achiro

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Russ,
> 
> For the record there are not any current members of the Tulsa Retriever Club that are Schrader clients so you comments are out of date; secondly the opinions expressed concerning the derby are ignorant, uninformed or badly informed…not stupid….just ignorant. Lastly, if you have a burr under your saddle about the way the Tulsa Club conducted this trial pick up the damned phone and call Paul but this innuendo laced posting is bullshit


Wow Patrick. Maybe you need to tell me where I have indicated any type of "burr" In fact, I'm not sre that you can find where I have said anything regarding the Tulsa club at all.
The Schrader comment: Gut said it, I then replied that I had heard the same thing from someone else(and more than one now). Then you and Paul seemed to get pissed about it, seems maybe it hit home and I still don't know why. 
Lastly, please stop calling people ignorant unless you want to show what comments you are talking about?
Let me quote what I said for you:
"My OPINION is that a test that results in elimination of all but 2 dogs in the THIRD series of a DERBY, didn't work out as well as anyone SHOULD have hoped. "
Please show me where you disagree with this statement! Since you've now called me out twice, the first time right after I posted it.


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## achiro

*Re: .*



fowl hunter said:


> schraeder trains on those grounds,He should have won.


Sometimes that can hurt you more than it helps.


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## Patrick Johndrow

Nobody trains on the grounds.


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## Linda Noga I

FWIW, Schrader DOES NOT train at Copan and hasn't been on the grounds since the trial was held there last fall.


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## Gerard Rozas

:shock: :shock: Now this thread is getting interesting :shock: :shock:

Sitting here with popcorn and soda waiting for the next round.


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## MardiGras

Linda Noga I said:


> FWIW, Schrader DOES NOT train at Copan and hasn't been on the grounds since the trial was held there last fall.


I was just going to say that Linda.... ugh.

Sheril


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## Ken Guthrie

Linda,

Come on. :lol: 

Russ and I were just getting it stirred up good and now you come around and give us the facts.

It sounds better when you say Schrader won because he trained on the grounds regards,

Gut

:wink:


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## achiro

Ken Guthrie said:


> Linda,
> 
> Come on. :lol:
> 
> Russ and I were just getting it stirred up good and now you come around and give us the facts.
> 
> It sounds better when you say Schrader won because he trained on the grounds regards,
> 
> Gut
> 
> :wink:


Of course the FACT that he had the odds in his favor with a large percentage of the dogs running, some great dogs on his truck, and knows a thing or two about handling doesn't mean anything. :wink:


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## Ken Guthrie

achiro said:


> Is it true you were wearing a "Schraderite" hat? Cause if you were, that would be pretty funny.


So is it true or not?

Come on, let's hear it. :lol:


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## Linda Noga I

Ken Guthrie said:


> achiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it true you were wearing a "Schraderite" hat? Cause if you were, that would be pretty funny.
> 
> 
> 
> So is it true or not?
> 
> Come on, let's hear it. :lol:
Click to expand...

I'll answer, only a few of those hats in existance, none of the true SCHRADERETTE'S are sharing. As for Paul, he borrowed the hat to handle at the trial when he won, now he's not wanting to give it back since it's lucky for HIM.


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## Paul Rainbolt

OK here's that hat story Ken. I borrowed the hat from Schrader right before i fan the open land blind at Sooner last fall. I went on to win that trial and would not give the hat back. I like to wear it when i see Schrader to remind him of that trial. If that makes me a "Schaderette" so be it . If Farmer , Eckett, Edwards, Roram, or Trott or any other good pro wants to loan me a hat before i run I'll glad to wear it. Have a good day, Paul


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## FOM

Tulsa Slim said:


> OK here's that hat story Ken. I borrowed the hat from Schrader right before i fan the open land blind at Sooner last fall. I went on to win that trial and would not give the hat back. I like to wear it when i see Schrader to remind him of that trial. If that makes me a "Schaderette" so be it . If Farmer , Eckett, Edwards, Roram, or Trott or any other good pro wants to loan me a hat before i run I'll glad to wear it. Have a good day, Paul


You too believe in lucky hats?  Hell good luck in getting a lucky hat from Edwards, the dirty rotten turd won't share the lucky ones 

Not that I have been wearing the same dang lucky hat forever regards,

FOM


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## Ken Guthrie

Oh..........

Well that explains it then.

All this time I thought the hat was only worn to cover that ugly wig you were sportin'.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Wish I had hippy hair regards,

Gut


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## Tim West

Well, Tom Vaughn in the Amateur used to be a Shraderette, (may still be) but I can GUARANTEE that no favor was shown Shrader Amateurs. They were dropped alongwith all the rest of us and a newcomer won the Am. (way to go Brian!).

Hate to throw even more water on that fire, Ken.

As for training on the grounds, they were like any pasture in most of Oklahoma. Go find one and train on it and you pretty much had the FT grounds. And I talked to the owner for about an hour. The grounds are used for pointing dog trials 90% of the time.

More H2O....


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## Ken Guthrie

Tim West said:


> Well, Tom Vaughn in the Amateur used to be a Shraderette, (may still be) but I can GUARANTEE that no favor was shown Shrader Amateurs. They were dropped along with all the rest of us and a newcomer won the Am. (way to go Brian!).
> 
> Hate to throw even more water on that fire, Ken.
> 
> As for training on the grounds, they were like any pasture in most of Oklahoma. Go find one and train on it and you pretty much had the FT grounds. And I talked to the owner for about an hour. The grounds are used for pointing dog trials 90% of the time.
> 
> More H2O....


Wow..........

Well I guess that sums it up. Should we expect larger entry numbers next year then?

Certainly there had to be some kinda cheatin' going on up there.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Patrick Johndrow

Ken Guthrie said:


> Well I guess that sums it up. Should we expect larger entry number next year then?
> 
> Certainly there had to be some kinda cheatin' going on up there.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



We hope the entries arent large next year...and as far as the cheatin goes...we dont know what your wife does while you are away running trials. :shock:


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## Ken Guthrie

Patrick Johndrow said:


> Ken Guthrie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess that sums it up. Should we expect larger entry number next year then?
> 
> Certainly there had to be some kinda cheatin' going on up there.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We hope the entries arent large next year...and as far as the cheatin goes...we dont know what your wife does while you are away running trials. :shock:
Click to expand...

I'd bet Noga gives up Malboro's before my wife ever cheats on me. :wink:

In other words..........no chance. 8) 

Bring Tulsa back to Wagoner regards,

Gut


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

would tulsa have larger numbers if they moved closer to Texas?


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## Ken Guthrie

*Re: .*



fowl hunter said:


> would tulsa have larger numbers if they moved closer to Texas?


 :roll: Newbie..... :wink:


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

lol


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

They afraid the Texans would bring more dogs and win if they moved it closer to Texas.lol


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## Aaron Homburg

*Tulsa Trial*

*Wow, I had no idea all of this was going on......and I was at the trial!!!! Very good trial first time I ever had a dog running in a trial and she went out in the first just like about 20 other dogs. Very nice grounds and very nice people.....good seeing you all down there!

On a side note those that said there would be plenty of room at Copan Lake to park....I call BS  Pulled in there Friday night and there was no room at the inn ......after driving down back roads through people's yards we finally got to Lake Wa Sha She....lot better accomodations and not to far from the grounds! Lot of fun.

Congratz to Brian Freeland...nice guy and a nice dog!

See you all at the Cimmaron.

It is nice to get somewhere where there is wireless internet...been out of contact for a few days....did not know I would have to stay at the KOA Hilton though!!!!!

Aaron*


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## Patrick Johndrow

*Re: .*



fowl hunter said:


> They afraid the Texans would bring more dogs and win if they moved it closer to Texas.lol



now thats funny...if we moved it closer to Texas maybe you could do the gun safety seminar for the birdboys. :lol:


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

That would be a big negative. :lol:


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## cpayne

Patrick,

Those were good bird boys, keep them away from Trevor!!! They wouldn't throw those birds near as far with a hole in their arm!

CP


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

No they woudlnt.


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## MardiGras

We, personally, know 2 of those "bird boys" from this past weekend and they are the best you can get! Be careful when you generalize "...maybe you could do the gun safety seminar for the birdboys." These guys work hard and deserve more appreciation than this comment.


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

I think the bird Boys are the most unapreciated people in any test and they are just as important as anyone I think.


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## MardiGras

*Re: .*



fowl hunter said:


> I think the bird Boys are the most unapreciated people in any test and they are just as important as anyone I think.


Amen!! Can't have a trial or training day without them..... thanks fowl hunter!!


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## Ken Guthrie

MardiGras said:


> We, personally, know 2 of those "bird boys" from this past weekend and they are the best you can get! Be careful when you generalize "...maybe you could do the gun safety seminar for the birdboys." These guys work hard and deserve more appreciation than this comment.


I don't think there was any disrespect given. In regards to the comments, one must know that Mr. Fowldaddy has put a hole through his hand with a firearm.

Hence the reason for attempted sarcasm.


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*









He I shot myself in the arm not hand.get it right..lolol.
anyone want to go to the shooting range.. :lol: :lol:


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## K G

Thanks for that graphic representation...... :shock: 

Safety was _not_ first regards,

kg


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## Trevor Toberny

*.*

no it wasnt..


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## Ken Guthrie

*Re: .*



fowl hunter said:


> Sorry for the hijack.


Yeah, let's get back on topic.

:lol:


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## Andy Carlson

Yikes, that had to have hurt! :shock: 

Andy


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## Terry Britton

I don't know what happened at the trial, but I was told to expect issues about it last week. Then I heard about it the past three days at lunch. 

*pass the popcorn*


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## MoJo

I hate to hijack this thread with something as trivial as a request for results, so please do not take offense. :twisted: Does anyone have the results of the Open? It's not yet been posted on EE.


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## MardiGras

Open results:

1st- #25 JayeJ - H: Bill Schrader
2nd- #23 Truman - H: Bill Schrader
3rd- #15 Prime - H: Barb Howard
4th- #29 Dena - H: Bill Schrader
RJ- #12 Rooster - H: Bill Schrader
J- #10 Rooster - H: Bill Schrader
J- #18 Luke - H: Bill Schrader
J- #34 Riley - H: Brian Biesemeier
J- #35 Java - H: Bill Schrader
J- #36 Delta - H: Paul Knutson


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## Paul Rainbolt

Larry Bozeman handled Dena.


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## MardiGras

You are correct - I was there.... just reading off the catalog I had in front of me. Sorry, Larry!


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## rip

*good job*

congrats to bill an d his ams.the team looks very good this spring and im sure there was a lot of hard work went in to it this winter.
danny


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