# Snake bite while training in Sarasota, FL



## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Yesterday, Sunday 11/8/2009 while training in Sarasota, Florida. My 18 month old female lab was bitten on her front paw by a snake. We were running 3 single water marks and on the 3rd water mark I had her cutting threw some thick cover as the dogs exited the pond. She picked up the mark and proceeded back to the line. She had returned about 80% of the way when she began to labor. Not putting any pressure on her front left paw. She was holding it up in the air and returned to "heel" on 3 legs still with bird in her mouth. We quickly poured some water over her paw to look for any foreign objects. I then found blood on the top of her paw and in taking a closer look found 2 puncture wounds.

Within 2-3 minutes we were in the car and calling local ER Vet's to see who had Antivenin. The first 2 Vets we called were out of it and the 3rd finally said they did have some and to get her there ASAP. 

We arrived at the Vet within 40 minutes of when we believe she got bit. The Vet told us that the first thing to do was to have a blood test to see if there were any changes to her system. The test came back positive and the Antivenin was quickly administered. 

At $700 a hit, Peace needed 2 hits of the Antivenin. At this point her left front paw is about 4x's larger than her right one. With some swelling up her arm to her elbow. Peace was also given iV fluids and some morphene for the pain.

Today, Monday 11/9/2009, we were at the ER Vet at 7am. I am happy to say Peace is recovering well but not completely out of the woods yet. Peace showed no major side effects from the Antivenin other then some diarrhea. She was in better spirits and did eat and drink water around noon today. The Vet told us that the next hurdle is secondary infections which could lead to her loosing a toe, paw or leg. The next 2 weeks will tell us......... 

We believe that she was bitten by the Cottonmouth Water Moccasin, but we never did see the snake to confirm this.

I do have some pictures of the wound/paw. I will post them later this evening. I will also try to post a new pic daily of her paw. Its my understanding her paw is gunna look pretty ugly here in the next 10-14 days...... and smell pretty bad to, I was told. 

Chad


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## ricejumper (Jan 15, 2009)

Sorry to hear about that. Thats one of my worst fears for my dog. 

Hope Peace has a full recovery...


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## Squirm88 (Oct 30, 2008)

Wow Chad sorry to hear Peace was bitten. I am hoping for a speedy recovery.


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## SCOTT C. (Oct 20, 2004)

I'm sure she will be OK, but hoping for the best.


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Chad,
Having been there and done that with my spouse's GSP, even in the same location except for the right paw, I feel for you and Peace. I'm praying for a total recovery. 
Hang in there. It will look much worse before it gets better. We were scared Cletus was going to lose his paw at the very least because of the amount of necrosis but after nine days at the vet's he recovered fully.
Take Care,
Becky


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## brandywinelabs (May 21, 2008)

Hoping all turns out well.


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Becky Mills said:


> Chad,
> Having been there and done that with my spouse's GSP, even in the same location except for the right paw, I feel for you and Peace. I'm praying for a total recovery.
> Hang in there. It will look much worse before it gets better. We were scared Cletus was going to lose his paw at the very least because of the amount of necrosis but after nine days at the vet's he recovered fully.
> Take Care,
> Becky


Thanks Becky,

I was told its gunna look and smell pretty bad. 

And as you said, its gunna get much worse before it gets better.

Chad


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## Becky Mills (Jun 6, 2004)

Chad,
Please keep us updated and we'll keep up the prayers.
Give Peace a hug for me.
Take Care,
Becky


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Chad, I went through the ordeal with my previous lab. He was bitten on the snout, and got over the original toxin without anitvenin, (we think it was a copperhead) but got very, very sick due to secondary infection. I wonder if your vet will prescribe an antibiotic to prevent that from happening to Peace? Good luck, reptiles are just too much a part of the south!


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

Wishing your dog a speedy recovery.

That's my biggest fear.


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

2tall said:


> Chad, I went through the ordeal with my previous lab. He was bitten on the snout, and got over the original toxin without anitvenin, (we think it was a copperhead) but got very, very sick due to secondary infection. I wonder if your vet will prescribe an antibiotic to prevent that from happening to Peace? Good luck, reptiles are just too much a part of the south!


Yes, she is on Antibiotics already. She has been given the antibiotics in shot form.


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## Lady Hunter (Mar 13, 2003)

Having just gone through a Copperhead snake bite on my Curly's front foot I wish that your dog has a speedy recovery.


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

Chad - sorry to hear about Peace's bite. Years ago when I lived in FL, my lab got bitten on the top of her rear left paw by a diamondback in my yard. She got to the vet within 10 minutes and she was swollen all the way to where the back leg hooks into the body. She spent 2 nights at the vet and had 2 doses of anti-venom. She did end up with a huge scar on top of her foot - it did get pretty nasty looking as it was healing.

Will keep you and Peace in my thoughts and prayers for a complete recovery.

Andy


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Oh no!!!!! I hope she will be all right. Please keep us updated. How scary :-(


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Chad, We're so sorry to hear the bad news. I'm sure she will have a speedy recovery.
Keep us up to date.


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## Ricky Elston (Nov 25, 2004)

Hoping for a speedy recovery Chad. Peace is a nice pup.


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## 150class (Jul 1, 2003)

scary stuff right there.I Hope she makes a 101% recovery. Not knowing anything about venomous snakes, is it just a general anti venom that they give? I always thought they were snake specific. Did you assume it was a Water Moc? I dont know if it would hurt a pup either way Im just thinking out loud based on what Ive heard.

Hang in there!! Both of you


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

ok ...... guys and gals,

here are some pics from day 1 ..... about 2 hours after bite


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

here are a fews pic's from day 2 ...... 24 hours after bite


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Poor puppy!!

I've never been around snake bites. Do you basically give antibiotics now and let nature take it's course? 

How long before something like this is back to normal?


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## Kris Hunt (Feb 25, 2005)

OUCH!!! WISHING YOUR PUP A SPEEDY RECOVERY!!! No Cottonmouths here but we have some rather venomous rattlesnakes, scary stuff.

Kris


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

150class said:


> scary stuff right there.I Hope she makes a 101% recovery. Not knowing anything about venomous snakes, is it just a general anti venom that they give? I always thought they were snake specific. Did you assume it was a Water Moc? I dont know if it would hurt a pup either way Im just thinking out loud based on what Ive heard.
> 
> Hang in there!! Both of you


Yes, because we were water training ..... we are assuming it was a water moccasin but never did see the actual snake. Her blood test confimed a snake bite. 

The label on the Antivenin said "use for North and South American snakes such as vipers, diamond backs, rattlesnakes and water moccasins."

Peace needed 2 injections of Antivenin ...... at $700 a injection. But, just a small price to save a life. Although many dogs survive without the Antivenin. We werent gunna chance it.

Chad


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## Susie Royer (Feb 4, 2005)

Is she on antibiotics now? If you think it looks bad now wait a week or so when the skin starts turning black and starts peeling off  We weren't able to get the Antivenin in time to administer to our girl but, she made it...best wishes for yours


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## DDanielson (Mar 24, 2008)

Best wishes and a speedy recovery.


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## Hew (Jan 7, 2003)

Dang, Chad, sorry to hear that. Pretty alert of you to look/find the fang marks. Good thing it bled to help you figure it out. I sure hope she has a full and speedy recovery.


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Susie Royer said:


> Is she on antibiotics now? If you think it looks bad now wait a week or so when the skin starts turning black and starts peeling off  We weren't able to get the Antivenin in time to administer to our girl but, she made it...best wishes for yours


Oh yeah ...... she is on lots of Antibiotics, about 750mg per day. She is getting 2 different kinds.

Chad


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## kona's mom (Dec 30, 2008)

Aw man sorry to hear about that Chad. Glad you were able to get Peace to the vet in time. Here's wishing a speedy recovery!


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

Chad, My wife's little girl got bit on the face by what we think was a moc. Her face swelled up like a soccer ball. Was in vets for three days with drain tubes, antibiotics, but no antivenin. It was available though. She recovered fine with no loss of skin and looks normal.

Hang in there.


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## Snicklefritz (Oct 17, 2007)

Sorry to hear about Peace's (and your) misfortune. From the distance between punctures, looks like a pretty big snake!

Speedy Recovery,

Chuck and 'Buddy'


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## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

Lucky Seven said:


> Peace needed 2 injections of Antivenin ...... at $700 a injection. But, just a small price to save a life. Although many dogs survive without the Antivenin. We werent gunna chance it.
> 
> Chad


Your dog is living with the right person!!! Hope she is back to her old self soon and back to doing what she loves. 

Best-

M


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## Jason Glavich (Apr 10, 2008)

Sorry to hear about this happening. That looks very painful to say the least. My pup recently had some spider bites that looked bad but no where near what this looks like. I hope for a speedy recovery.


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## Dux-R-Us (Nov 6, 2009)

for what it's worth.

the prevalent snake in my neighborhood is the copperhead. The timber rattlesnakes have been mostly killed out. my dogs have suffered about 5 bites in the last 10 years. all recovered easily without anti-venom. when discoveredthey had been bitten, I iced the bite and administered benadryl at the advice of my DVM. I assumed the bites were from copperheads. 

I understand rattlesnakes are another matter and can be deadly to dogs, but this is mostly second hand information and not from DVMs. 

In the snake world, venom is an expensive commodity. The herpetologists I know told me most bites are defensive and the snake will not invenomate or will invenomate a small amount. The dosage of the venom is a big factor in the severity of the bite.

I purchased a extensive first aid kit at the SCI show years back. It was Put together by MD's. I asked why no snake bite kit was included and they responded that most bites to humans were not invenomated. Also to be effective, the kit (suction/vacumm) has to be applied within 1 minute to be effective. Any longer and the venom cannot be extracted.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Down here in South La., the two things I dread are moccasins and gators. The moccasins have been out in force lately with the cooling temps. They are hauling out and sunning.

My buddy almost stepped on a 4 footer yesterday at one of our most popular training grounds  He said it looked like a chunk of firehose laying in the grass....yikes!!!!


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## Amishflyer (Jul 23, 2009)

I hope Peace makes a full recovery and is back in the field sooner rather than later. Good Luck! On a related note, how effective are the snake bite booster shots. I have given them to my pup as a precaution. Just wondering how effective they really are if a snake bite does happen. Thanks.


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the support and prayers.

Day 3 Report:
Peace is doing very well. She had a great night last night. We didnt hear a peep out of her all night. She is still favoring that paw but seemed pretty happy. She was able to go to the bathroom and is keeping food and water down. The swelling is about the same as yesterday.

Someone had asked about the Antivenin. Here is what the label on the vial says:

ANTIVENIN
(Crotalidae) Polyvalent​
(North and South American Snakebite Antiserum)
For use in dogs which have received bites from viperene snakes, such as rattlesnakes, copperheads and cottonmouth water moccasins.

Thanks Again for the support and kind words,

Chad


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## flatcoatfun (May 29, 2008)

So is there any way to check for snakes around florida ponds before running a dog? 

Sending lots of good thoughts your way for Peace's quick recovery.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

flatcoatfun said:


> So is there any way to check for snakes around florida ponds before running a dog?
> 
> Sending lots of good thoughts your way for Peace's quick recovery.


Not that I know of. I do like to take a look around the banks of any ponds or lakes, but snakes are much harder to find than gators. I have trained in places that just looked like they should be full of snakes and never saw one and also in areas you would never think about a snake only to find one. I am no expert but I see a lot of cottonmouths sunning themselves on the banks or logs.....


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

And don't forget to look overhead at the tree limbs!


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Day 4 update.

Hello Everyone,

Peace is doing very good. She bouncing around and acting more like herself. Her paw is still a little bit larger than normal, but looks great.

We are having a small issue. She keeps licking the wound. Its kinda wierd. She'll be standing there and then she snaps her head and she starts licking the area. Its almost like it's burning her, itching her or like she it being bit. 

So, around 6pm last night we had to put the lamp shade on her head. Just to try to prevent her from licking it. She's not a happy camper with it on ...... but she'll live. 

We are soaking the paw twice a day in some Betadine Solution and warm water as per the Vet.

Everything else seems pretty normal. 

We have another Vet appointment Thursday. Peace will have her blood checked and the Vet wants to view the wound.

Chad


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Chad.....if ok with your vet...could you use 3M Vetrap? Just change it often...use a non-stick pad underneath on the bite? There are all kinds of different size pads, gauze bandage rolls..dressings these days to put under. 

It does not stick to hair, skin etc..stretches ... Have used it quite a bit this last summer and it saved the day for one of our "boys" being able to be active...train..but not able to lick the wound (which I thought was actually a snake bite..vet said no, though) and then later a cut pad (high pad on front foot)

I was careful to cover the dressing with the Vetrap so he cold not pull at it... Worked much better than the cone. At night, used a very light, wrap under....to be exceptionally soft and not tight against the wound. 

Good news on the update...scary stuff..

Judy


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Judy Chute said:


> Chad.....if ok with your vet...could you use 3M Vetrap? Just change it often...use a non-stick pad underneath on the bite? There are all kinds of different size pads, gauze bandage rolls..dressings these days to put under.
> 
> It does not stick to hair, skin etc..stretches ... Have used it quite a bit this last summer and it saved the day for one of our "boys" being able to be active...train..but not able to lick the wound (which I thought was actually a snake bite..vet said no, though) and then later a cut pad (high pad on front foot)
> 
> ...


Hey Judy,

The Vet wants us to leave it open. They want it to drain out........ I asked about wrapping it also...... I was told by the Vet *NOT TO*

Chad


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Day 4 pic's



















getting better .......

Chad


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey Everyone,

Well its day 5 and as you can see by the pic's below ..... her paw's not looking to good. I know many of you said its gunna look worse before its gets better and I am here to say, you all were right !




















Chad


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Day 6 pictures ......

soaking the paw 3 times a day ......


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

..(looks like?) swelling is going down ... "A very good thing" 

Judy


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## precisionlabradors (Jun 14, 2006)

thanks for posting pictures of this. it's informative. like the previous post, it appears as if the worst is over. i hope. i am glad your dog made it and is improving. cheers.
________
Toyota Ad Engine History


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

yes, for the most part the swelling is all but gone. Her paws look to be the same size.

I'm having trouble getting the two bite mark area's to dry out and scabb over. I have her wearing the "lampshade" so she cant lick the wounds....... she really wants to lick the paw after I soak it.


Chad


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

wow - day 4 was looking pretty good, the 5 went downhill. still, looks like it is mending, but being a Black its harder to tell if its getting tissue damage. swelling definitely looks to be waning....

keep with it - hoping she is doing fine!


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

It all looks pretty good. I would say the antivinin worked or it got hit by a water snake and not a cottonmouth.


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## Marty Lee (Mar 30, 2009)

well i am to go pick up my boy WOODY today from the vet he had to stay 5 nights/six days at the vet with IV fluids. he was bitten on 11/11/09 twice in the face by what i assume was a rattlesnake. i didnt take time to look for the snake since we were 40 miles from the vet i just picked him up and hauled tail. he was swollen bad when i had to leave him but have been told he swelled alot worse.thank GOD he pulled thru and i am ready to get him HOME his brother and all us miss him badly.....glad yours is doing good too...dang snakes i hate em. I wonder does it usally teach them avoidance or do they forget it pretty quick??? any body ever had one get bitten multiple times?


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Wow that is scary Marty. Glad he is pulling through. Did he have the antivenin? I have been told by several vets that they don't reccomend it for rattelsnakes becasue they do not deliver their venom as often as cottonmouths (maybe one of the experts can address that).


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## Marty Lee (Mar 30, 2009)

No we did not get the anti venom. The vet would not make a recomendation either way because of so many variables ie, i was not 100% sure it was a rattler as i did not see the snake he was definately struck twice as there were 4 distinct puncture wounds and to be honest as bad as he looked i did not think he stood a chance i thought i had lost him for sure but thankfully GOD has other plans. we are looking forward with great ambitions to get him out there hunting as soon as possible.


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## Captain Mike D (Jan 1, 2006)

badbullgator said:


> It all looks pretty good. I would say the antivinin worked or it got hit by a water snake and not a cottonmouth.


If that had been a watersnake there would have been no initial swelling. Maybe it would have swelled later due to infection. There would not be just 2 holes in her foot, but would be a bunch of little pin pricks if the teeth would have even reached the skin.

Looks like what is happening now is the start of tissue and skin erosion from the venon which helps a pit viper in the digestion of its food.

Chad, I hope resolves soon, Peace is a darn nice little dog!

Mike


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## Bob Glover (Nov 14, 2008)

We had a rash of copperhead bites this summer (about 7 dogs on our lake) and all the dogs healed without any long term effects. The vets recommended benadryl and some antibotics but no antivenom. Mine was bitten on the paw, and it swelled up and looked bad for almost a week. Our vet said he's never lost a dog to a copperhead bite, but a rattlesnake bite is a different story


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## Captain Mike D (Jan 1, 2006)

Marty,

I'm glad your dog survived. Hope he is as good as new soon!

Mike


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Captain Mike D said:


> If that had been a watersnake there would have been no initial swelling. Maybe it would have swelled later due to infection. There would not be just 2 holes in her foot, but would be a bunch of little pin pricks if the teeth would have even reached the skin.
> 
> Looks like what is happening now is the start of tissue and skin erosion from the venon which helps a pit viper in the digestion of its food.
> 
> ...


 
Good point! I did not think about water snakes not having fangs....... Shows how much I know about them....I like them all best dead


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## Marty Lee (Mar 30, 2009)

Chad i hope Peace is still doing well. I am sorry i wasnt trying to hijack your thread. I was attempting to give hope to others that may have suffered the same fate as our dogs....I got Woody home yesterday he still has some swelling and has lost some weight but he looks good for what he has been through.... NOW let me tell you of course after the fact the vet admitted he didnt think woody had much chance of survival when i brought him in...he says i should change his name to "one tough dawg" so if any body else has to endure this terrifing event "dont give up hope" mine pulled thru yours could too! thanks all for letting me ramble SO gald to have my boy back!!!!!


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Marty Lee said:


> Chad i hope Peace is still doing well. I am sorry i wasnt trying to hijack your thread. I was attempting to give hope to others that may have suffered the same fate as our dogs....I got Woody home yesterday he still has some swelling and has lost some weight but he looks good for what he has been through.... NOW let me tell you of course after the fact the vet admitted he didnt think woody had much chance of survival when i brought him in...he says i should change his name to "one tough dawg" so if any body else has to endure this terrifing event "dont give up hope" mine pulled thru yours could too! thanks all for letting me ramble SO gald to have my boy back!!!!!


Marty,

No biggy.....
Peace is doing better.

Hopefully this thread has been educational to many.

Chad


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## dalecindy (Feb 26, 2008)

Hi Chad. Haven't checked the site in a while, been really busy. Started reading this thread without even noticing who wrote it and then I saw Peace's name and looked up real quick...couldn't believe it was from you. 
I hope Peace is ok. I had Missy snake proofed, but that wouldn't help in your case, I don't believe. I have often wondered what effect snake proofing has, or how well a dog could avoid a snake when running. I would think the dog would be on the snake before it smelled the snake. 
You can only do so much. Hope Peace is ok.

Dale


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Thanks Dale,

I had Peace at the Vet today. I was having trouble getting the 2 bite wounds to scab up.

The Vet game me a powder with steroids in it that is suppose to help dry up and help scab up the wounds.

He said they should harden and scab up in 2-3 days. ..... we will see. 

Chad

Theodores Lucky Seven MH
Say Good Night Irene
Power by:


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Chad I'll take the leftover bottle of Neo-Predef if you don't use it all! ha ha
Hot spot magic regards,


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Furball said:


> Chad I'll take the leftover bottle of Neo-Predef if you don't use it all! ha ha
> Hot spot magic regards,


Oh! I didnt know that what they use that stuff for. I have never had a dog who gets hot spots ....... does it work well ????

Chad


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## Brad Slaybaugh (May 17, 2005)

I was working on a training pond this summer and killed a big moccasin, I was surprised to have found one in the area I did, we have plenty of them in some areas and hardly any in others. Supposedly the northern boundary for them is about a half mile north of my house, but it is also the largest concentration north of the everglades other than the dismal swamp, so a biologist once told me when I was a kid. Anyway when I killed the one this spring, I did some research on them when I got home. Usually if you have to wonder if it's poisonous, it's not. There is no mistaking the triangular head and slit eyes of a pit viper. Water snakes, even though they have an attitude are not much to worry about in my opinion. One interesting thing I found out when reading about them, is that most vipers are NIGHT HUNTERS, so the times around dawn and dusk, you are more likely to run into them. During the day they rest-up. It also said they like to climb trees to sun and certainly like sunny rocks and logs to sun on, being cold blooded they a temperate controlled, so as the temps cool they try to stay as warm as possible. Meaning in the fall and spring they are more visible during the day. Also there is a difference between defensive bites versus hunting bites, but small snakes have not learned that yet and dump all their venom, so your actually better to be bitten by a large snake in hopes it is not an invenomation.

My vet told me she has never used anti-venom, but we do not have Rattlers around here either. For the moccasins and copperheads, she said benadryl works fine, the most critical factor is the location of the bite, if bit in the neck or face, swelling could cause trouble breathing so the swelling needs to be controlled. Then the secondary infection can be a problem, so she starts them on antibiotics immediately.

I did try desnaking my dog when he was about a year old, I used a black snake, got the snake irritated so he really smelled strong and walked the dog around him, when he got close to the snake I nicked him with the collar and said no here. I never really knew if it worked until a couple years ago running the last series of a MH test a cooper black, he wouldn't go into a little pothole to get a bird, even with handling, the judge and I walked out to make sure the bird was there, it was, we were dropped. The next dog was bitten above the eye, we never saw the snake and the dog was fine after some benedryl, but after that I figured it must have had some effect.

I have read or maybe saw on TV that the toxin from a moccasin is different than a copperhead, one kind attacks the tissue at the wound site and the other attacks the organ functions/nervous system. I can never remember which one.

Good luck with both of your dogs, it is scary and I think I would go with the anti venom also better to be on the safe side.

I'm trying to find the pics of the moccasin killed this summer, I'll post later when I find them.

Brad


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## Furball (Feb 23, 2006)

Yeah, Neo-Predef is good for what ails ya -- hot spot, nasty ears, rash, gicky paws, whatever. My vet doesn't carry it for some reason.


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## terrycuyler (Jan 5, 2009)

Chad, I'm so sorry to hear that. And not much YOU can do at this point so I know how helpless you must fee. No yelps or anything in the water before she came out? That is one of my nightmares here in Florida - and the snakes sneak up on you. Take heart that we are all pulling for you! 

tlc


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

Terry,

Nope, didnt hear a peep out of her.

She's doing wonderful. Hoping to get her out training this weekend and running in trials in mid-December.

Crossing my fingers........

Chad


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## dalecindy (Feb 26, 2008)

Where ya training and when? My be able to meet up.


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## Lucky Seven (Feb 4, 2008)

dalecindy said:


> Where ya training and when? My be able to meet up.


Dale,

I am training by my house in the morning. Peace is NOT ready to start training yet. So, I'll only be running Seven.

Her paw looks good, but not totally healed. Maybe next week.......

I will not be training on Sunday. I think some of the boys are going to Waynes on Sunday.

Chad


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