# Tulsa Ret. Club HT



## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Running order is posted. Junior will be split. www.tulsaretrieverclub.com


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

I counted the number of dogs and there is 55/a 42/b . Why isn't it more even? Is Sunday going to be split also?


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

The uneven split is do to keeping some pros with a bunch of dogs in the same flight. Dont think they plan on splitting on sunday


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

There were several unhappy people at the Junior on Sunday and probably Saturday. We missed the ribbon presentation on Saturday. They sure were disappointed about not getting a title Ribbon. Does Tulsa Retreiver Club not give out title ribbons for some reason?


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## Hidden Valley (Aug 4, 2003)

*tulsa test*

I'm new to akc hunt tests, are you refering to a PASS ribbon or does akc give a special ribbon for a title? The folks with the ribbons may have had to go home or something, who knows. I'm sure junior was long sunday with 80 dogs and not split. My dog did good sat., but sunday left his brain in the hotel room. My senior dog failed due to my not paying attention and failing him due to handler error.(my first senior test).


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> There were several unhappy people at the Junior on Sunday and probably Saturday


When those guys are running the test, getting judges, grounds, help, birds, lunches and doing all that goes into making a hunt test go, they can order title ribbons. In the mean time you thank the people who put the test on for giving their time and effort.

Where's sportsmanship and appreciation nowadays?


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## Chris Kingrea (Jan 3, 2003)

Howard N said:


> > There were several unhappy people at the Junior on Sunday and probably Saturday
> 
> 
> Where's sportsmanship and appreciation nowadays?


Really. 

Oh, but I'm sure they thanked them for all their time and effort. :roll:

Just how unhappy were they ?

Maybe it's just me, but Titled ribbon .... so what ??? Isn't 4 Orange ones and a certificate from AKC proof enough ??? :? 

Whatever floats their boat, I guess.


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

the marshall/ribbon presenter was telling people who titled ''sorry we don't have title ribbons, please let the management know you were disappointed'' seems she felt the same way the participants did. as in they didn't get something they should have. i would have been disappointed in the lack of title ribbons if my dog titled that day as well. and to tell you the truth as far as helping..... i bust my hump every year at a field trial and hunt test for my club. i go to other events expecting to be a participant and recieve all the things i paid my entry for. thanks is in order for those who help. that doesn't make me feel differently about whether or not a club chooses to honor those dogs that recieved a title at the event. this is the first event i have been to that didn't offer the title ribbons. i have been to events at 5 different retriever clubs over the last few years. no title ribbons is a new one on me.


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Whaaaaa they didnt pass out title ribbons whaaaa  I dont believe there was anything in the premium about title ribbons. The AKC will send you a paper tilte in the mail for your great accomplishment. Until then quit whinning you havent run enough events to even have an oppinion.


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## Guest (May 23, 2004)

*How Dare...*

How dare you guys that has been in this game for so long you want to condemn someone for wanting a title ribbon.

These people might not only have but one dog and have just started this game that I so love.... So 4 ugly orange ribbon and a generally somewhat better looking title ribbon is very special.... I know, it was with my first dog.

So the clubs that take your entry fee and can't even acknowledge your dog for a job well done is a disgrace. This is the first one I know of that doesn't give out title ribbons. 

I would think that if that was there plan from the beginning that it should have been noted in the premium. Again this is a first......


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> Whaaaaa they didnt pass out title ribbons whaaaa  I dont believe there was anything in the premium about title ribbons. The AKC will send you a paper tilte in the mail for your great accomplishment. Until then quit whinning you havent run enough events to even have an oppinion.


i was trying to be respectful and ask if there was a reason for not doing it. it is pretty rude that a tulsa retriever club member would give a reply like this. i guess the other people i heard discussing not running your event again may have another reason to consider also.


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## Roger Perry (Nov 6, 2003)

I have titled 2 master hunters and never heard of a title ribbon. Is this something new?


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## Buck Mann (Apr 16, 2003)

None of the AKC or HRC clubs that I have run in the Southeast give title ribbons. They usually give title pins to put on the ribbon. I like the title ribbon idea. 8) 

Buck


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Clubs giving title ribbons are not the norm and title ribbons should not be expected. We had appx. 250 dogs entered we split the master because we had to and split the junior (72dogs on Sat.) as a curtisity. We had 20 workers half of those are paid help. The AKC rep that observed the test was quoted as saying the test at all levels were some of the finest he had seen. You shoud be proud of your title but dont expect more than a hand shake when you get it in Tulsa. If you are chasing a title ribbon you can make sure the club is passing them out before you enter.


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> How dare you guys that has been in this game for so long you want to condemn someone for wanting a title ribbon.


Title ribbons are something that just came out in the last 3 - 4 years AFAIK. Honest, I've never felt that any orange ribbon I've earned with my dogs was ugly. I don't think my dogs have ever cared if I got a ribbon or not. They just wanted more birds, preferably flyers.



> So the clubs that take your entry fee and can't even acknowledge your dog for a job well done is a disgrace. This is the first one I know of that doesn't give out title ribbons.


It's no disgrace to me. None of our local clubs give out title ribbons. I wouldn't even know what they were except someone told me about them. It seems to me that any ribbon at the end of the test is an accomplishment.

I just looked at the last hunt test premium I received in the mail. It says Standard AKC Rosettes and bird bands to all dogs earning qualifying scores. No title ribbons.

If the Tulsa usually gives out title ribbons then someone forgot to order them. Fire the help. Like I said I'm usually glad there's grounds, judges, birds, and lunch.

I'm of the mind that _how dare_ you people condem a club for not giving out title ribbons? They put on the test and provided everything that goes into holding a hunt test. If title ribbons are so important to you, make sure the premium says title ribbons when you have only one more to go.


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

Most clubs in Texas do give out title ribbons. I am a member of one of the clubs and am it's HT secretary. We decided last year to order nicer, larger, flashier, ribbons. They are fairly inexpensive and we think that it is not only good advertising for our club but also does something special for our entrants. I have had some entrants tell me that they wait for our test so that they can title and get one of our nice ribbons.

These ribbons are not required by AKC nor can they have any AKC logo on them. Some HRC clubs order a ribbon that merely says "Title Ribbon" and then they attached a small strip with the name of the stake.

The title ribbon respresents time and effort not only by the entrant but by his/her training partners. If a pro is running the dog, it is something that can be given to the often absent owner. The title ribbon is just another aspect of trying to get new people involved and keeping them.

I will have to say that the most exciting title and ribbon recieved by me was that Junior title. The club presentation was special and it was this accomplishment that propelled me into training for Senior, Master and running MN. I can still say that that Junior title was the most sweet!


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Is something that used to be a nice added feature by some clubs now a must do item for all clubs? Will it be taken up by the Hunt Test Advisory Committee?


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## Art Geddes (Aug 30, 2003)

well, I quess i should enter this frey, since I am the event chair.

Several years ago we did give title ribbons, but then we were told that was not allowed by AKC as they did not authorize title ribbons. We do give a non akc ribbon at the end of the year to our club members for titles they received, but that is a benifit of being one of our members. Maybe you shoud consider this in your club if you are a member, or if not a member, maybe you should join. But the main reason we do not give title ribbons at the hunt test is that they are not akc authorized. 

Thanks, 
Art Geddes


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

Everyone is aware that the title ribbons are not authorized by AKC...that is the reason that there is nothing on them about AKC. They are something nice that a club might return to an entrant for being successful and clearly state that they are from the club. They aren't any different than the title pins that we order for all of our members who earned a title during the year. They also are not authorized by AKC and do not include AKC's logo.

Other activities that are not authorized by AKC might include, among others, raffles and tailgate parties at the events. I see them as generally giving back to the participants. I would hope that just because one club decided to have a particular activity, it is not construed that every club needs to so it also! I doubt that AKC would object to any positive activity that encourages newcomers to enjoy our sport, to participate in AKC events and do not violate AKC's rules. 

I generally select what events I attend by whether the event is well run, whether the club is friendly, and whether I feel welcome at that event! Each club has it's own unique personality!


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

Does anyone know why they are not authorized by the AKC. It seems all the clubs I have ran except for yours feel they are worth buying and distributing anyway. I don't think they have any AKC insignia on them but are a nice token to show your accomplishment.


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

As stated earlier, AKC requires the orange qualified ribbon and you recieve a nice certificate. The certificate states the title earned, registered dog's name, date, etc.

I don't think that AKC should require the title ribbon. Putting on a hunt test is expensive and alot of work. Most clubs do not make alot of money from their tests after the cost of birds, shells, land, workers, judges expenses, etc are tallied. I would say a profit of 25% - 30% would be good. Not alot considering all of the time spent by members and the hard work all weekend. I think those who are not members of clubs should join a club and give back by working. If you are not a member, ask the marshall of your event if they need help - most of the time they do! Give back to the program by helping at the events you enter.


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## Tim West (May 27, 2003)

In terms of title ribbons you would think the AKC would allow you to have one if you got an FC or AFC title. 

Now THAT is worth a ribbon.

A Junior Hunter title ribbon? Sorry, can't buy into that one. Maybe a MH title ribbon.


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## KJB (Jul 1, 2003)

Tim West said:


> In terms of title ribbons you would think the AKC would allow you to have one if you got an FC or AFC title.
> 
> Now THAT is worth a ribbon.
> 
> A Junior Hunter title ribbon? Sorry, can't buy into that one. Maybe a MH title ribbon.


WOW. That was condescending.


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

SueLab wrote:



> Everyone is aware that the title ribbons are not authorized by AKC.


Hmmm....been in the HT game since it started and I never heard of a title ribbon before reading this post. Even spent two years as an AKC rep during that time and didn't hear of one then, either... :? .....

As far as raffles and the like, the only thing to be concerned about there is your state's lottery laws. The AKC could give a flip...as long as you aren't raffling off qualifying scores! :wink: !

band collector wrote:



> ....to tell you the truth as far as helping..... i bust my hump every year at a field trial and hunt test for my club. i go to other events expecting to be a participant and recieve all the things i paid my entry for.


Ahh...the "I expect to be served" attitude.... :roll: .....just what we need more of in this game.... 8) .....

And you're saying that the Title Certificate with the AKC seal of authenticity on it is just not enough for you? Just _gotta_ have that little colored ribbon to make it worth it? 

Now I understand your handle.... :| .....just _gotta_ have something someone else doesn't have...and now you've come to expect what's been normal (in _your_ eyes) at the tests you've attended.

Tim West wrote:



> In terms of title ribbons you would think the AKC would allow you to have one if you got an FC or AFC title.
> 
> Now THAT is worth a ribbon.
> 
> A Junior Hunter title ribbon? Sorry, can't buy into that one. Maybe a MH title ribbon.


All Tim did here was cut through to the brass tacks. Let's start rewarding folks for things that deserve truly being rewarded. A JH is a meat dog, folks, and maybe not a steady one at that...end of story. A SH is a quantum improvement over a JH 'cause it'll sit still and handle. A MH is supposed to be the finished dog in the blind or in the field.

If the HT game was meant to care about which dogs were best individually, it would reward them with blue, red, yellow, and white ribbons. Being tested against a Standard vs. other dogs is a whole different level of competition. There's nothing wrong with recognizing that.

Perhaps if more people understood that, people would be willing to test dogs to the Standard more *(at each level)* and be proud of the level of achievement the title brings, rather than some silly streamer that's added to it.

'Course, as always....JMHO.... :wink: !

Keith Griffith


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

Keith Griffith said:


> All Tim did here was cut through to the brass tacks. Let's start rewarding folks for things that deserve truly being rewarded. A JH is a meat dog, folks, and maybe not a steady one at that...end of story. A SH is a quantum improvement over a JH 'cause it'll sit still and handle. A MH is supposed to be the finished dog in the blind or in the field.
> 
> Keith Griffith


I wonder why AKC even bothers with all of those people who just own different levels of meat dogs? The unimportance of the average guy with the average dog is probably one of the reasons why I hear so many people say that they go to other venues with their "Meat Dogs". 

I guess I haven't gotten crusty or disillusioned enough (yet) to not find it refreshing that recoginition can be given even to the beginner. I guess I thought the hunt test program was supposed to be fun and not all about the money or big time competition.

Keith do you represent the views of AKC ...that hunt test dogs are just meat dogs?


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## Art Geddes (Aug 30, 2003)

Like I said, We give out a club title ribbon at our annual banquet to our club members irregardless of where the earned their title. It is one of the benefits of club membership, the other one primarily being getting to work your buns off 4 times a year. We don't keep track of all the entrants passes to determinge if they have earned a tittle ribbon, and if you heard all the stories a charman or secretary hears regarking late entries, test fairness, judges, etc, there are some people who would ask for it just because they felt they deserve it. Like I said earlier, have your club give out title ribbons at its annual meeting, if you have joined one. The problem is some peiople don't join so they won't have to work. by the way, thanks to all the people, the vast majority, who commented on how well the test was run and how much they enjoyed it. You guys make the months of work worth it.
Thanks, 
art


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

suelab wrote:



> Keith do you represent the views of AKC ...that hunt test dogs are just meat dogs?


Check my post, Sue...



> 'Course, as always....JMHO.... :wink: !


Clearer now? Sue, you sound like someone who is spoiling for a fight. At least keep my points in context. I only defined the JH as a meat dog, and an unsteady one at that.

I respect a SH a great deal, and a MH a great deal more. The AKC used to define the test levels in this manner:



> 1. Master tests maintain the quality of the program.
> 
> 2. Senior tests encourage owners to train for advanced work.
> 
> 3. The Junior test encourages people to continue in the program.


That, Sue, is the way I interpret the AKC HT program. This was last published in the AKC HT regs/guidelines book effective 9/1/98. I never got a straight answer about why that paragraph was excluded from Part IV, "Other Important Considerations for Judges." Probably some desire for political correctness....

In point 3, "*continue*" is the operative word. Stopping at JH leaves the dog with the ability to deliver a duck to hand and not much more by definition. 

suelab wrote:



> I guess I haven't gotten crusty or disillusioned enough (yet) to not find it refreshing that recoginition can be given even to the beginner.


"Crusty or disillusioned?" Sue, I'm disappointed. You've never impressed me as the "labeling" type, either in person on online, over a point of disagreement. Recognition is one thing...let's just not get carried away with thinking that single retrieves while under gentle restraint is more than it is....and that's not even dealing with "delivering to catch," bank running, and resends.... :roll: 

I just choose not to labor under the illusion that the JH title demonstrates anything particularly outstanding about any dog. It's not meant to, by the way, based on the above definition. "Encourage people to continue in the program" means train to a higher level _for the dog's sake_. 

That's what the HT program is all about...not just putting letters after a dog's name.

Keith Griffith


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

There is absolutely nothing stated in the AKC 3 guidelines regarding the three levels which I disagree. I do have a problem with *some* of the comments made on this topic and how they might be interpreted by those new to the sport. I don't think that they were in keeping with point #3 in your stated AKC quidelines.

Most clubs depend upon new members to help put on their tests and to keep the club alive. Many of of these new members train their own dogs & many do not continue beyond junior due to family committments, lack of time, lack of ability(owner or pet dog), etc. The ribbon that we chose to give is not entirely about the dog ...it is about the owner who took the time to be involved and was successful whether it be Jr., Sr., or Mstr. 

As far as labeling, if you reread my comment, I made the statement in regard to MY attitude not yours or anyone elses. :lol: Also, Keith, we have never met so don't blame any of your friends for my attitude. :wink:


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

I would say you shouldnt expect something that wasnt promised to begin with. At the last couple hunt test judging seminars i attended the rep stated the junior test were no longer designed to incourage folks to stay in the sport but wanted to see tougher test at all levels and held to the highest standards. With 70 plus dogs a day entered in our junior i dont want to encourage more junior handlers. Instead of expecting a title ribbon why not show up expecting to throw birds for 4 hrs. I also dont think pros should be aloud to handle junior dogs. They are just clogging up the hunt test so they can squeeze a handling fee out of their nieve cliants. A junior title is not proof of a pros talent as a trainer or the dogs tallent as a hunter. The junior is a stepping stone for the newbys.(New can of worms :wink


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

suelab wrote:



> Also, Keith, we have never met so don't blame any of your friends for my attitude. :wink:


Sorry for the case of mistaken identity...and I think you understand the implication of the statement you made relative to "labeling." That said, thank you for the clarification.

I just wanted to keep things in context. All of this started over the non-awarding of a title ribbon. You're right...all that matters is that people get involved and have fun with their critters, regardless of what level they aspire to...or _don't_ aspire to, frankly. The problem comes, as in this case, when people want that special little extra thing that they have come to expect. That "need" is closely akin to greed...and the AKC HT program was not set up to feed that need.

Keith G.


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

Re: Tulsa Slim...not getting into that can of worms! 

I can't disagree with your sentiment about helping clubs. The last test, I left totally exhausted and wondering how many more I may be willing or able to work (my activities were not limited to HT Sec duties for sure). 

I do like to see people involved with their local club, helping with the tests and being mentored by other members. There are a few entrants who are not club members and have helped out which is really appreciated.

Maybe the solution for artificially limiting entry numbers is conflicting dates like some FT clubs are doing (probably has some AKC restrictions) which certainly limits the chances for MN quals for the employed owner/ handler unless you send you dog with a pro...


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Found out last night that we do have title ribbons somebody just forgot to bring them. Oh well mabey next test, if they remember to bring them well pass out a few. :lol:


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> Found out last night that we do have title ribbons somebody just forgot to bring them. Oh well mabey next test, if they remember to bring them well pass out a few. :lol:


from *art*


> Several years ago we did give title ribbons, but then we were told that was not allowed by AKC as they did not authorize title ribbons.


sounds like you all should make a decision as to which it is going to be. i would suggest giving them out to participants. as i said previously all the other venues i have ran did give out title ribbons to qualifying dogs. initially my question was why you don't give them out. sorry this turned into a bit of a turmoil. i did enjoy your test but was surprised you didn't have ribbons for title dogs.
and for all you people who turned this into a help out the club issue  . my family and i help out with all of our own clubs events. my 8 year old son even got recruited to plant the land blind in one of the senior stakes i ran last fall in kansas city. my wife got involved this year at our hunt test and came out to make and distribute lunches to all the workers myself included. she since has also become interested enough to take on running our young dog in the junior stakes this spring. come to think of it i did pitch in some help for your test. i helped one of the junior judges put out decoys and set up the winger on the pond on saturday before the test started. after that i never heard or saw a need to jump in. that being said i didn't have much time to spare anyway. i was busy taking care of two kids and coaching my wife on running the dog. which most importantly to us they scored 2 legs on the junior title.


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## Terry A (Jul 1, 2003)

Wow, I for one do not know wheather to be discouraged or humilated by what I am reading in this thread. I am a first time trainer with my first lab. When I first saw a hunt test, I was absolutly captivated by what these dogs and handlers were doing. I wanted my dog to do that but did not have a clue where to start.

I got books and videos and anything I could get ahold of to try and figure out where to start. Finally, I found a group of people willing to help me out.

When I passed my first two Jr test, I was so proud of my dog and the progress we made. Now I find out that alot of you guys are out there laughing at me and others like me because we think we have done good so far. 
Now I realize that I cant do everything that some of you experts and AKC reps might be able to do but I am trying. If I had waited till my dog could run a senior or master test, I would have gotten discouraged and quit by now.

If the JH title is so worthless, Why have it. Is it just to get my money and keep me coming back? Is it to provide entertainment for the elitous handler/trainers or to remind them how great they are?

I for one hope I never come to a place where I looses the excitement of seeing someone get there title. Regardless of what level I personally think I have reached, I want to remember the thrill of my first pass and I cant wait to get the next two JUNIOR Passes and a JUNIOR TITLE

I do have goals of running Senior and Master tests but i am taking one step at a time.

Thanks Suelab for taking up for us low life amature rookies


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

If you are into running and training your dog you should keep training to you achive your goals no matter what people think. When you recieve your junior title you should be proud of it and i hope it inspires you to continue training and competeing. My point is dont expect something you were not promised, dont run your 4 or 5 juniors and think you know what most of the clubs are doing. There are 100s of clubs in the US and id be suprised if 1/2 of the passed out title ribbons. Dont go on the internet and complain about not getting something for passing when it wasnt promised and is not reguired to begin with, youll only sound silly and make youself a target for ridicule. If you plan on getting your title in tulsa this fall, call and remind the chairman to bring the title ribbons. There really pretty ,red, white and blue with a big flying mallard in the middle.


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## 3 dog knight (Jul 9, 2003)

Tulsa Slim said:


> If you plan on getting your title in tulsa this fall, call and remind the chairman to bring the title ribbons.


After reading how the Tulsa club feels about the people who participate in their events, I think a better idea would be to just forget Tulsa even has a hunt test and get your passes and titles somewhere else. Obviously they have too many participants already.

3DK


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## Paul Rainbolt (Sep 8, 2003)

Its not how the Tulsa club feels about it, its how i feel about it. And your right 290 dog entry this spring is to many dogs and if not passing out title ribbons would cut down on entries i would vote not to pass them out . But as you can tell it has had no effect on #s. Im pushing forno junior test next spring so you will probly have no reason to come up here anyway.


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

bandcollector said:


> There were several unhappy people at the Junior on Sunday and probably Saturday. We missed the ribbon presentation on Saturday. They sure were disappointed about not getting a title Ribbon. Does Tulsa Retreiver Club not give out title ribbons for some reason?


I thought the JH on Sunday was great!!! Finally some shell decoys. I'd love to see alot more decoys, shells, silhouette and rags. The saturday test was also good.

I like the Tulsa club and they did a fine job. As far as title ribbons, they're great, but they are at the clubs discretion. You folks down south give out dinner plate ribbons and that is soooo cool. Up north they just started with title streamers. All extra ribbons are just that extra. Don't expect them. Be thankful you have a hunt test to run at that weekend and good workers to run it.

As a pro my clients love these ribbons and they appreciate them for what they are. In the event they don't get that title ribbon???? Guess who has a box full of them for anyone, client or not. :wink: :wink: 

Bandcollector, lets not look at the ribbons, title, qualifying or whatever.... Look at the things this wonderful sport gives us. Because if it was just about ribbons. We all would have taken up some other game.

Angie


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## Patrick Johndrow (Jan 19, 2003)

You know I don't think anyone ever thanked Art Geddes for chairing this event. Thanks Art you did a great job!


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## Steve Bean (May 3, 2004)

Like Keith Griffith, this post is the first time I have heard about 'title' ribbons. If you are doing the HT for ribbons, give up now, because they don't mean squat. What you and your dog can do, and the bond and fun you have doing it is the reason. Most ribbons find a way to an old shoe box anyway. It is the sense of accomplishment, whether JH or MH that you are after. Any sort of lasting recognition will appear in your dog's official name and title awarded by the AKC.


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

why does everyone keep reading so much into a simple question. i just stupidly used the internet to pose a question that was raised at the event. i wish now that i had simply done a pm to art or whoever. asked my question and voiced my opinion that way. but then everyone wouldn't have gotten the chance to jump up on their soapbox and starting ripping into every aspect of everything involved.

i simply wanted to know why they didn't give out title ribbons. which has been answered. me, i am going on with life. you all have fun freaking out. :crazyeyes: :agrue: :crazyeyes:


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## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

> why does everyone keep reading so much into a simple question. i just stupidly used the internet to pose a question that was raised at the event. were you not at the ribbon presentation on sunday. i wish now that i had simply done a pm to art or whoever. asked my question and voiced my opinion that way. but then everyone wouldn't have gotten the chance to jump up on their soapbox and starting ripping into every aspect of everything involved.
> 
> i simply wanted to know why they didn't give out title ribbons. which has been answered. me, i am going on with life. you all have fun freaking out. :crazyeyes: :agrue: :crazyeyes


Betcha you won't do that again....... 

Angie


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## K G (Feb 11, 2003)

bandcollector wrote:



> why does everyone keep reading so much into a simple question. i just stupidly used the internet to pose a question that was raised at the event. were you not at the ribbon presentation on sunday. i wish now that i had simply done a pm to art or whoever. asked my question and voiced my opinion that way. but then everyone wouldn't have gotten the chance to jump up on their soapbox and starting ripping into every aspect of everything involved.
> 
> i simply wanted to know why they didn't give out title ribbons. which has been answered. me, i am going on with life. you all have fun freaking out.


I'm gonna recommend that you cut your caffeine intake in half _immediately_... :roll: 

Keith Griffith


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

bandcollector said:


> Angie B said:
> 
> 
> > Bandcollector, lets not look at the ribbons, title, qualifying or whatever.... Look at the things this wonderful sport gives us. Because if it was just about ribbons. We all would have taken up some other game.
> ...


Don't let it bother you bud. Dog people are a weird lot anyway, you get one on a soapbox and 10 others are gonna try and knock him/her off. :wink: 

It was great meeting you the other day. Wichita isn't to far and I try to get up there once in a while anyway. We should get together and train sometime.


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