# Lean Mac puppy



## OSO-Buck (Apr 26, 2012)

Wondering what a good/fair price (or what you may be willing to pay) is for a Lean Mac sired pup.


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

If you had the chance to buy one it would not be less than $6500.00
You would not have the chance to bargain, there ya go


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

OSO-Buck said:


> Wondering what a good/fair price (or what you may be willing to pay) is for a Lean Mac sired pup.


Kinda depends on who the bitch is wouldn't you think?


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## Karen Klotthor (Jul 21, 2011)

Is it directly out of Lean Mac or only his line.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

OSO-Buck said:


> Wondering what a good/fair price (or what you may be willing to pay) is for a Lean Mac sired pup.


you may be taking advantage of the breeder no matter how much you end up paying!


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

If I bred one of my Clear Ford females to Lean Mac head to head who would have interest and what would the pup bring.


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## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

golfandhunter said:


> If you had the chance to buy one it would not be less than $6500.00
> You would not have the chance to bargain, there ya go


Gracie/Maxx pups didn't bring that much. Gracie was the greatest YLF in FT history. Sorry, I must call BS.


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## MNHunter (Feb 16, 2015)

Edited, whoops


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## Tony Marshall (May 15, 2013)

Terry Marshall said:


> If I bred one of my Clear Ford females to Lean Mac head to head who would have interest and what would the pup bring.


I'll put a deposit on a female right now.


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Jacob Hawkes said:


> Gracie/Maxx pups didn't bring that much. Gracie was the greatest YLF in FT history. Sorry, I must call BS.


Jacob, weren't those pups $6000.00?

I know how much for the straw, plus there is a cost per pup. If pups were less than $6000.00 they would be loosing money or did it for fun.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

golfandhunter said:


> Jacob, weren't those pups $6000.00?
> 
> I know how much for the straw, plus there is a cost per pup. If pups were less than $6000.00 they would be loosing money or did it for fun.


Depends on litter size.
My Lean Mac pup cost me less than $6000 and his dam is a National Champ


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## weathered (Mar 17, 2011)

Someone just advertised a litter bred to Lean Mac. They are not whelped yet. Price is not posted. Part of what I found is listed below. Might ask the litter owner. 
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This is a direct breeding to Lean Mac. The puppy pedigree can be seen on my website under pups. 

CONFIRMED BY ULTRA-SOUND 2XNAFC 2XCNAFC FC Ebonstar Lean Mac x Crooked Creeks Wild Jasmine QAA2 MH (FC BLUEGOOSE'S PASSION FOR JAZZ x FC AFC Shadows Sweet Something). Jazz’s pedigree can be seen at: http//www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=61913. PHONE CALL ONLY. My website is www.whistlestopretrievers.com.


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## Brian 23 (Mar 22, 2011)

The pups were $6500 a piece,male or female


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

golfandhunter said:


> Jacob, weren't those pups $6000.00?.


I don't recall, l I think I paid $5K but that was 4 years ago.


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## Jwattsmojo (Jul 15, 2013)

I can't see paying 6500 for a pup a fair price. But that's just me. Odds are he wouldn't be but what if he or she turned out to be a dud. Then the question then would be can you get that or better out of a started dog from him. Sorry but for me I wouldn't take the risk that's a vehicle. Let me say though I would love to have one sired from him giving his is only the best producing sire ever but dang 6500 is steep. There is still plenty of room to make money selling pups even if the straw is 8 to 10 k. Unless it was a 2 puppy litter but that's a chance every breeder takes. I've been there . That's just my opinion


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## Jwattsmojo (Jul 15, 2013)

4 to 5 k is fair


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

What is fair? The price is determined based on what the buyer and seller agree on. Is it fair for you to be able to buy for $4-5k if the seller can get $6,500 from someone else?

What if the seller's costs are $8k for the breeding + $2,500 per pup, and he gets 1 pup... Is $4-5k still fair, or would $12k now be "fair".

Breeding to Lean Mac is a risky proposition for the breeder (finacially). Buying a $6,500 8 week old is also risky.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

Why dont you just inquire with the breeder who has the litter coming?


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## Jwattsmojo (Jul 15, 2013)

If the seller could get that more power to them but like I said for me being buyer no way hose'


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

Jwattsmojo said:


> If the seller could get that more power to them but like I said for me being buyer no way hose'


You don't normally deal with that type of breeding so it is of no consequence to you.
Roseberry and I each bought a Lean Mac pup about 5 years ago and paid about that for them.
The breeder will have a waiting list if not already.
I would do it again.
Where is the listing for the breeding located?
MP


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Mike Perry said:


> You don't normally deal with that type of breeding so it is of no consequence to you.
> Roseberry and I each bought a Lean Mac pup about 5 years ago and paid about that for them.
> The breeder will have a waiting list if not already.
> I would do it again.
> ...


http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...ean-Mac-x-Crooked-Creeks-Wild-Jasmine-QAA2-MH


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## Jwattsmojo (Jul 15, 2013)

That's my input like I said if the pup was not what you wanted or showing substantial potential what could you of got out of him at the started or seasoned level and does your lean Mac pup have a fc afc ? Cause that's what would expect the least paying that for a pup lean Mac or not


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## Jwattsmojo (Jul 15, 2013)

And no I've never delt with that caliber breeding your right


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## Camo9244 (Jan 15, 2015)

I called on that litter! It was more than I thought but cant say I was surprised. I would buy 1 if given the opportunity! If some one is planning one please put me on the list!!


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Jwattsmojo said:


> I can't see paying 6500 for a pup a fair price. But that's just me. Odds are he wouldn't be but what if he or she turned out to be a dud. Then the question then would be can you get that or better out of a started dog from him. Sorry but for me I wouldn't take the risk that's a vehicle. Let me say though I would love to have one sired from him giving his is only the best producing sire ever but dang 6500 is steep. There is still plenty of room to make money selling pups even if the straw is 8 to 10 k. Unless it was a 2 puppy litter but that's a chance every breeder takes. I've been there . That's just my opinion


This is pure ignorance, if you were able to afford this breeding you had better be ready to go to the goal which will be more than $200K


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## John Lash (Sep 19, 2006)

Any breeding can have a high percentage of dogs that can't do the work.

Few breedings have more than a few exceptional dogs in a litter if that.

To think that if a pup costs a lot of money it will be exceptional is crazy...


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

John Lash said:


> Any breeding can have a high percentage of dogs that can't do the work.
> 
> Few breedings have more than a few exceptional dogs in a litter if that.
> 
> To think that if a pup costs a lot of money it will be exceptional is crazy...


And anyone that thinks that it is a given that the dog will title is very naive (nicer term than ignorant), even if they have the money and the bitch was an FC/AFC.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

There is a FC to FC breeding from Oregon right now in the classifieds for $3000. I'd buy two of those before I'd buy one Lean Mac pup for $6000, but that's just me. I think the odds would be better.


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

Sounds like a lot of money for a pup. Even the best bloodlines can't guarantee FC or AFC.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

2 labs said:


> Sounds like a lot of money for a pup. Even the best bloodlines can't guarantee FC or AFC.


True.....but they can certainly better your odds


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

You spew more ignorance than anyone on this forum. Just saying



Terry Marshall said:


> This is pure ignorance, if you were able to afford this breeding you had better be ready to go to the goal which will be more than $200K


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Justin Allen said:


> You spew more ignorance than anyone on this forum. Just saying


Everyone has their own opinions. Sometimes it is best to keep them to yourself. Just saying, be the peanut.


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## Breck (Jul 1, 2003)

Steve Shaver said:


> There is a FC to FC breeding from Oregon right now in the classifieds for $3000. I'd buy two of those before I'd buy one Lean Mac pup for $6000, but that's just me. I think the odds would be better.


. 
Especially when the Lean Mac breeding is to FT washout.


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## Justin Allen (Sep 29, 2009)

Being a peanut is not very appealing to me. Thanks though


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## Clint Watts (Jan 7, 2009)

Justin Allen said:


> Being a peanut is not very appealing to me. Thanks though


That is apparent, to each their own. Have a wonderful day.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Back to the subject at hand. The price for any pup is market based. Lean Mac is a very proven producer and is no longer living so the number of remaining straws is limited. If you really-really want a Lean Mac pup you're going to have to pay. Any good FT breeding is going to cost a lot compared to regular old back yard bred retrievers, and every one of them is a gamble.


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

I know they say to get the best breeding you can afford. But if you think about it, the cost of the pup is going to be the least of the expense.After you factor in the cost of the training just to see if the dog can play the game. Plus then you have the decision of which pro would be best to train a Lean Mac pup.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

Or do a line breeding on two very good Lean Mac field champion pedigrees in stead of doing a LM breeding with a common bitch


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

If this breeding took place, do you think anybody on here would even have a chance at a pup? My experience is that for the most part, by the time you hear of a quality breeding it is too late, all pups are sold before they are born.


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## Ethompson63 (Sep 13, 2013)

There was an ad for the breeding in the classifieds so I would say everyone had a shot at it but it's gone now so it looks like they were sold before being born.


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

They could've just posted the ad to see what kind of response they got. And tease everybody of course.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Ethompson63 said:


> There was an ad for the breeding in the classifieds so I would say everyone had a shot at it but it's gone now so it looks like they were sold before being born.


Maybe responding to an ad and writing a check is good enough to meet the requirements to purchase for some puppy sellers; but not so in this market


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## Ethompson63 (Sep 13, 2013)

mjh345 said:


> Maybe responding to an ad and writing a check is good enough to meet the requirements to purchase for some puppy sellers; but not so in this market


I didn't say it was but the ad was posted with contact info so anyone who wanted had a shot at calling to inquire so you never know but yes you would think these pups would only go to pretty proven people.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

golfandhunter said:


> If you had the chance to buy one it would not be less than $6500.00
> You would not have the chance to bargain, there ya go


I've got a QAA2 Lean Mac son whose dam was also a National Champion that I would sell for that


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

mjh345 said:


> I've got a QAA2 Lean Mac son whose dam was also a National Champion that I would sell for that





Oh ya? How old is he?


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

He is 8, but acts like a three year old. Awesome hunter both on upland and waterfowl. Has picked up 1000;s of birds


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

Not sure how the process goes ? But can a breeder put down any AKC number of a sire for the sire ? How can you tell that the sire is the true sire. Sorry not trying to de rail the topic but how do really know if Lean Mac is the true sire ? And not just his AKC number.


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

Genetic testing. Maxx is on file with AKC.


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

labsforme said:


> Genetic testing. Maxx is on file with AKC.


Thanks, that's what I thought but I was just wondering. I guess it is possible that somebody could put in any number they wanted without any accountability unless somebody did genetic testing.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

There is a lengthier process for registering the frozen litters that also goes through verification with the semen processor and the vets involved. There is no online registration.


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

Yes it is very complicated and detailed to the gnats ass........ you wil not fool this process.


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## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

I couldn't imagine paying that much for a pup..
You can get some great pups for 2500


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Chipper31 said:


> I couldn't imagine paying that much for a pup..
> You can get some great pups for 2500


i bought what i think was a great one for $50 once. i bought what i think was a great one for $4,500 once. they are all great.........unless they bite someone!


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## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

roseberry said:


> i bought what i think was a great one for $50 once. i bought what i think was a great one for $4,500 once. they are all great.........unless they bite someone!


Of course they are all great....but not all work out to the FC....but Almoat all become great companions.


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

So many factors involved with getting that FC. A good start begins with the best breeding you can afford and with this breeding it would be a good start. But then you have to find the Pro that would be the best for training a Lean Mac Pup. Its probably been a long time since the last time a Mac litter has been whelped.


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## Trevor Toberny (Sep 11, 2004)

so you think there are pros that are best bets for lean mac pups? wouldnt any of the top tier pros be qualified?


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## 2 labs (Dec 10, 2009)

Yes, I think some pros are a better fit for certain dogs also some have more experience with certain dogs. Some pros are partial to certain bloodlines and enjoy training some more than others. If you find the pro that has had a lot of success with Lean Mac offspring then chances are he understands that dog and is a better fit for the dog. With the price tag of these pups,I would find a pro that has had a lot of experience with Lean Mac dogs and hopefully increase the chances of that FC.


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## rboudet (Jun 29, 2004)

2 labs said:


> Yes, I think some pros are a better fit for certain dogs also some have more experience with certain dogs. Some pros are partial to certain bloodlines and enjoy training some more than others. If you find the pro that has had a lot of success with Lean Mac offspring then chances are he understands that dog and is a better fit for the dog. With the price tag of these pups,I would find a pro that has had a lot of experience with Lean Mac dogs and hopefully increase the chances of that FC.


The pros I know couldn't tell you the breeding of the dogs they train. Nor do they care.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

rboudet said:


> The pros I know couldn't tell you the breeding of the dogs they train. Nor do they care.


FT pros? The ones I know are for the most part as you say, but there are certain dogs on the truck that they are very aware of the breeding, noticing training similarities with the dog's parents, and anticipating problem areas they might have to address.


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## my70superbird (Aug 24, 2012)

Breck said:


> .
> Especially when the Lean Mac breeding is to FT washout.


Not sure where you got your info but Jazz is certainly not a field trial washout. To set the record straight I purchased Jazz as a 3 year old from a trialer who got out of the game. I own several well bred dogs and choose to campaign my dogs up to Qualifiers and then run Master tests. I may occasionally run an Amatuer. This is a REAL LEAN MAC litter which was whelped 11/5/15 4 females and 3 males. Pica and video on my facebook page whistlestop retrievers. Lean Mac and Jazz both have DNA on file with the AKC. Pups were sold to first come first serve. Yes I agree $6500 is a lot of money for a pup. However, due to the limited amount of straws the stud fee is very expensive. I don't know why I need to explain because people who purchased pups understand why pups these pups are expensive. Purchasing any pup at any price is a crap shoot but I always try and give myself the best opportunity to get the best pup I can afford.


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## BuddyJ (Apr 22, 2011)

Superbird, are you going to do this again any time soon?


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## my70superbird (Aug 24, 2012)

BuddyJ said:


> Superbird, are you going to do this again any time soon?


Yes very soon with a yellow QAA female from Esprit's Power Play (POW) line.


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## BuddyJ (Apr 22, 2011)

my70superbird said:


> Yes very soon with a yellow QAA female from Esprit's Power Play (POW) line.


Please send me a pm when you do.


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## Chipper31 (Mar 8, 2009)

When was the last LM dog that won a National or National Amateur?


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## fireman85 (Aug 21, 2016)

.............


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Chipper31 said:


> When was the last LM dog that won a National or National Amateur?


I don't know the answer to your question. It would be interesting to know, but IMO would have nothing to do with how desirable a Lean Mac pup would be. He's one of the most proven Sires in history, he has been dead for quite a while and there are a limited number of his straws left. I can see both why someone would want a Lean Mac pup out of the proper breeding, and why they would be expensive.


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## DogsNDawgs (Jul 15, 2016)

*2009 - NAFC-FC Barton Creek's O Mustad (Hook). Based on a brief look at retriever results. *


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## Jamee Strange (Jul 24, 2010)

John Robinson said:


> If this breeding took place, do you think anybody on here would even have a chance at a pup? My experience is that for the most part, by the time you hear of a quality breeding it is too late, all pups are sold before they are born.


I thought that when I got wind of a FC AFC Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow breeding that Mary Tatum did last year ( I had never met or even talked to her before) but took a chance and made the call anyway. Turns out she liked me and my attitude towards dogs enough that she sold me a pup before they were born. Jonesy just turned 1 and is awesome. I'm so glad I made the call. You never know until you ask.


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## saltgrass (Sep 22, 2008)

Jamee Strange said:


> I thought that when I got wind of a FC AFC Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow breeding that Mary Tatum did last year ( I had never met or even talked to her before) but took a chance and made the call anyway. Turns out she liked me and my attitude towards dogs enough that she sold me a pup before they were born. Jonesy just turned 1 and is awesome. I'm so glad I made the call. You never know until you ask.


Never meet Mary in person but talked to her a few time on the phone yrs ago. She is a wonderful person much like 98% of the FT people I have had the pleasure meeting and talking to. 

John Robinson .. you are right but their is always a chance ther will be on available.. Always take a shot and call. There is sup to be a Lean Mack breeding to a very nice female here in Lower AL , I was told about im thinking this year.


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## pat addis (Feb 3, 2008)

i'm curious do you screen the people wanting your dogs.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

saltgrass said:


> Never meet Mary in person but talked to her a few time on the phone yrs ago. She is a wonderful person much like 98% of the FT people I have had the pleasure meeting and talking to.
> 
> John Robinson .. you are right but their is always a chance ther will be on available.. Always take a shot and call. There is sup to be a Lean Mack breeding to a very nice female here in Lower AL , I was told about im thinking this year.


Is this Gerry of Dublin fame? Regarding Mary Tatum, I had the pleasure of working with her about six years ago in resolving reproductive issues Gus was having at the time. She was super! She thought a bit out of the box, and the things she recommended completely resolved our issues.


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