# Frozen ducks for training?



## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

Who uses frozen ducks? Do you thaw them? and how many do you keep for training? How often do you work them in? 

Do you use them like bumpers? (O.K. after I typed that I realized how stupid it was) Of course you use them like bumpers Idiot! What else would you use them like?
No...I wipe my butt with them!

I'm trying to find a reasonable supplier of live ducks in Georgia if anybody knows anybody.


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

We use frozen ducks everyday. Some days they're thawed, some days not so thawed, depending on if we remember to pull them out of the freezer in time. Frozen ducks last way longer.

Angie


----------



## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

Whistling Wings in Illinois is who some of us in Alaska use. 815-591-3512 

I can order 12 and make them last all winter by freezing them. Angie is definitely right! Some days they are more thawed than others, and some days they become even more stiff...


----------



## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

DEDEYE said:


> Whistling Wings in Illinois is who some of us in Alaska use. 815-591-3512
> 
> I can order 12 and make them last all winter by freezing them. Angie is definitely right! Some days they are more thawed than others, and some days they become even more stiff...


They ship all the way to Alaska?


----------



## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

Use ducks on marks.

Use bumpers on blinds. A dog may get birds on blinds too, if more enthusiam is desired.

We have a big chest freezer (for birds only) and after field trials and hunt tests, workers get to take home extra ducks. We store up a bunch at the end of the season, and use them the following summer. We also shoot flyers during the week.

So, get a freezer, join a club, work an event and be sure to get some ducks before all the good ones are gone.


----------



## DRAKEHAVEN (Jan 14, 2005)

Once a live flyer is no longer alive in goes to the freezer. Is thawed for use to varying degrees. It is then refroze and dried with fans until my bird boys refuse to touch them.
9 of 10 birds, be that marks or blinds in my program are a bird. Pigeons are used and reused also. They do not last as long as a duck but I raise about 200 a year so they are cheaper.
________
Rambler Six history


----------



## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

I get birds left over from club trials and hunt tests. I stick them in the freezer and try to remember to thaw one or two out a week. Kind of yucky when you have used the same ducks about 5 times, but it is a way to get birds for my dog! BTW, I try not to use them really frozen, because it seems to make my dogs mouth problems worse.


----------



## Teri (Jun 25, 2003)

I do not use thawed birds nearly as much as many people. I use them far more in the winter than the summer as they do not last long in the Texas summer and fire ants are a huge problem. A lot of it depends on where I am training, if I am slipping into a park or a field in a populated area, I do not use birds. I am taking enough risk with dogs off leash and using a winger, do not wish to create a myriad of issues with GQP seeing dead birds. 

If I am going to do a longer day of training on a friend's ranch, then I always thaw birds. In the winter I often will set my bumper boys and shoot the bumpers to a pile of birds so dogs still pick up birds but I do not have to go reset a winger or if a youngster needs help, I can shoot another bumper.

The other issue is the needs of my dogs. I am lucky as my dogs have great attitudes for birds or for bumpers. I want the youngsters to have enough bird exposure ( assuming decent mouths) I will thaw birds for local training if the pups need more momentum; need work on staying in the area for the hunt or some other specific situation. If I had a dog who was 'more opinionated' with birds, then I would use them as much as possible. It is the proverbial 'It depends" (LVL). 

What I do need more of, is fliers. All the dead birds in the world wont give teach the dog about fliers.

I have a large chest freezer full of birds that I obtain after tests/trials. I use pigeons quite a bit as I raise them and I do not thaw them at all for the dogs/pups. Ducks I do thaw--if I have young or inexperienced dogs, I thaw fully...with big dogs, I thaw enough so they are not duckcicles but can still be rather icy in the middle.

Teri


----------



## DEDEYE (Oct 27, 2005)

Illinois Bob said:


> They ship all the way to Alaska?


Yep. It's the shipping that gets us. If I get a big enough group order together we can git it by air freight, other than that, we get them 2nd day air.. PS. I thaw them out overnight and then back into the freezer they go.


----------



## Warren Flynt (Nov 14, 2007)

not trying to hijack the thread, but out of curiosity- are there small freezers a guy like me can buy that arent as huge as a deep freeze... the wife doesnt like having _one_ frozen duck in the kitchen freezer, much less a dozen.


----------



## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

flyntwt said:


> not trying to hijack the thread, but out of curiosity- are there small freezers a guy like me can buy that arent as huge as a deep freeze... the wife doesnt like having _one_ frozen duck in the kitchen freezer, much less a dozen.


There are many sizes of the "chest" type freezers. Any dept. store like Sears will have several so you can find one that works with your budget and/or available space.


----------



## Warren Flynt (Nov 14, 2007)

perfect. thanks ric.... now i gotta find the birds. 

oh and to return the forum to the original topic:

yes i use frozen ducks for training- whenever i can and the birds arent too nasty from repetitive use. Down here the ants are bad during the summer so most blind placements are dokkens or bumpers.


----------



## Pepper Dawg (Sep 26, 2007)

DEDEYE said:


> Whistling Wings in Illinois is who some of us in Alaska use. 815-591-3512
> 
> I can order 12 and make them last all winter by freezing them. Angie is definitely right! Some days they are more thawed than others, and some days they become even more stiff...


What would the cost be including shipping and handling? I would think it would be prohibitive.


----------



## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Pepper Dawg said:


> What would the cost be including shipping and handling? I would think it would be prohibitive.


It is....... But do you want to train with ducks or bumpers?

I train with both regards,


----------



## ReedCreek (Dec 30, 2007)

```
I'm trying to find a reasonable supplier of live ducks in Georgia if anybody knows anybody.
```
What do you consider "reasonable"? I have a supplier of live ducks in Hartwell, GA. I pay anywhere from $9 - $10/duck depending on amount requested. 

Patti
________
TOYOTA CARINA HISTORY


----------



## Miriam Wade (Apr 24, 2003)

flyntwt said:


> not trying to hijack the thread, but out of curiosity- are there small freezers a guy like me can buy that arent as huge as a deep freeze... the wife doesnt like having _one_ frozen duck in the kitchen freezer, much less a dozen.


I keep mine in my kitchen freezer too. My neighbor though has just offered me the chest freezer she has, as her kids are grown & gone & she winters in Florida-so not much use for it. That's going to be a Godsend.

I get birds from working tests too, but last year started buying flyers through some good friends that I train with. Really nice birds & it's good to know the dog will get a couple flyers during the week. They really hold up well when frozen. Just make sure when you do water marks that you dry them completely before freezing.

M


----------



## camhuff (Apr 4, 2007)

I usually try to keep about 20 birds from the season to train with. However, this season is the pits I've only killed 5 ducks. Yeah you hear it 5 ducks! I normally use birds just prior to a HT and usually on the blind but will throw from a winger if we have enough help. I can reuse up to 4-5 times per bird. Fire ants are a problem at times that will keep use from using birds at times.


----------



## brian breuer (Jul 12, 2003)

Back to the freezer comment. I got a small upright freezer from Home Depot for about $200. Edible food goes on the top shelves and door. Training birds get the bottom two shelves. I usually only have about 6 ducks.


----------



## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

Frozen birds will last longer if you 1 dry and cool them before freezing, 2 place each bird in an individual plastic bag, newspaper or bread bag, squeeze out the air and twist tie the top shut.

Its a good way to use fishy ducks that are not table fare like mergansers.


----------



## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

I put them in the truck the night before and they thaw to various stages depending on how hot or cold it is outside. In the summer they are usually left frozen because we seem to get more use form them that way. 
We do use thawed birds for puppies and young dogs until they are accustom to using birds
Like Bob said, dry them before freezing


----------



## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

Put them in a paper lunch bag or wrap with newspaper before plastic bagging and they will thaw dry.


----------



## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

DEDEYE said:


> Yep. It's the shipping that gets us. If I get a big enough group order together we can git it by air freight, other than that, we get them 2nd day air.. PS. I thaw them out overnight and then back into the freezer they go.


I've been by that place lot's of times while out on the motorcycle.I just figured they were a supplier for clubs in that area.I looked them up and they claim to be the largest breeder that ships ducks worldwide.I've always thought birds were a local thing and you go pick them up.I'm surprised that there are no duck suppliers closer to you.I guess I'm lucky and don't know it.I can buy pheasants and chukars about 10 minutes from home and there is another duck hatchery south of here about 45 minutes away.I never thought of having them shipped.Next time I go by Whistling Wings I think I'll stop in and check it out.They are in Hanover,Illinois,along the Mississippi.


----------



## greg ye (Nov 28, 2007)

Teri said:


> I do not use thawed birds nearly as much as many people. I use them far more in the winter than the summer as they do not last long in the Texas summer and fire ants are a huge problem. A lot of it depends on where I am training, if I am slipping into a park or a field in a populated area, I do not use birds. I am taking enough risk with dogs off leash and using a winger, do not wish to create a myriad of issues with GQP seeing dead birds.
> 
> If I am going to do a longer day of training on a friend's ranch, then I always thaw birds. In the winter I often will set my bumper boys and shoot the bumpers to a pile of birds so dogs still pick up birds but I do not have to go reset a winger or if a youngster needs help, I can shoot another bumper.
> 
> ...


Teri, You wouldn't remember me but don't you own Bill Schrader's old place? I think people would be fascinated to see an aerial of your grounds and to discover how many acres are involved.


----------



## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

I also keep all the trash ducks we shoot during hunting season and use those for training birds. That way I don't feel bad about shooting mergansers, bufflehead and the like. The dog gets some retrieves on a slow hunting day and then gets to retrieve them over and over in training.

I'm sure someone will disagree witht this approach.


----------



## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

DH said:


> I also keep all the trash ducks we shoot during hunting season and use those for training birds. That way I don't feel bad about shooting mergansers, bufflehead and the like. The dog gets some retrieves on a slow hunting day and then gets to retrieve them over and over in training.
> 
> I'm sure someone will disagree witht this approach.


Disagree or not it is illegal due to wanton waste laws.


----------



## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

DH said:


> *I also keep all the trash ducks we shoot during hunting season and use those for training birds*. That way I don't feel bad about shooting mergansers, bufflehead and the like. The dog gets some retrieves on a slow hunting day and then gets to retrieve them over and over in training.
> 
> I'm sure someone will disagree witht this approach.


 
That is all fine and good but be careful you don’t come across a wildlife officer, state or especially federal, because you could get into trouble for that. 
Possession limits apply to ducks in the freezer. 

Bo knows ducks
Just saying regards


----------



## zipmarc (Jan 23, 2006)

DH said:


> I also keep all the trash ducks we shoot during hunting season and use those for training birds. That way I don't feel bad about shooting mergansers, bufflehead and the like. The dog gets some retrieves on a slow hunting day and then gets to retrieve them over and over in training.
> 
> I'm sure someone will disagree witht this approach.


Well it wouldn't be me. We use fresh and frozen farmed ducks year round. During hunting season and for a period after we use whatever leftover we hunted that we don't eat. Spoonies even. Ringnecks. Buffleheads. When I have real little pups I save a teal or two to get them rolling. Or an european wigeon, it's small too.

I usually save a few Ross geese - they are small geese all white with black wing tips. I use these in my Zinger for LOOOoong mark way out. You don't have to tie any ribbons even with a dark background - great visibility. They look big and white and exciting. I use them to stretch out my Qual dogs learning to do OAA marks.


----------



## zipmarc (Jan 23, 2006)

badbullgator said:


> That is all fine and good but be careful you don’t come across a wildlife officer, state or especially federal, because you could get into trouble for that.
> Possession limits apply to ducks in the freezer.
> 
> Bo knows ducks
> Just saying regards


We have to tie a tape to one leg and I usually have about 6 birds with me and that takes care of it. My AM group won't use any other species but mallards so the situation does not come up when I group train.


----------



## Buster Brown (Oct 29, 2007)

Heck we use frozen ducks to train with always. 

I bought a used chest freezer for $50 and it works just fine. I keep the chest freezer out in the garage. It's a big one. Must be 8 foot long. 

I keep the ducks in feed sack bags I get from the co-op or in garbage bags. We try to put 6 or 7 to a bag. That number works good for training sessions. 

In the winter we ususally can use the same ducks most of the winter. In the summer we use the ducks till they get to smell too bad. If they get to smelling so bad I don't want to handle them I figure the dogs are really smelling them so we retire (discard) those birds and get some new ones fropm the freezer for next time.

The ducks come from our training groups many hunts during duck season. The kill 'em and I feeze them for them and bring them to the training sessions.

The ducks are always frozen when we start a training session off. Not by design, just because I invariably forget to get them out until right before they go in the truck. Sometimes they are frozen solid so we have to break the ducks apart from one another in the field. After a setup or two though they soften up a bit. The dogs don't seem to mind and it's more realistic to hunt tests than using bumpers. We never use bumpers...except we use orange bumpers for the blinds.


----------



## DH (Oct 3, 2006)

I'm aware that possession limits apply to freezer birds but in my state any fliers from training count toward that limit as well. They only don't count if you shoot them on an RSA that is certified that there is no possibility of encountering a wild bird. None of my training places are RSAs. 

Also, all my birds are tagged with who shot it, I'm just storing them. A legal process in this area.

Basically if you keep only your limit with you at any time that you are in the field you don't have too much of a problem.

DH


----------



## Bob Gutermuth (Aug 8, 2004)

In Maryland, game farm ducks, like those used for events have a rear toe clipped as ducklings to mark them as such. They don't count toward your possession limit. I've never been checked by a DNR officer when training.


----------



## Chad O'Brien (Aug 7, 2006)

Spray foam insulation can be used to help preserve the integrity of the duck. When you have fresh shot birds, it takes about 1/2 an hour to do. Make a small slit just behind the breast bone, insert two fingers and pull out the heart, lungs, and guts ect. Wipe the inside cavity with a paper towel. Then cross the ducks legs and tie off with twine. Now comes the fun part, Take the spray foam and insert the tube in the duck and spray for about a two count. The birds chest will rise slightly. In the morning cut off excess foam. 1 can will do 20-25 large mallards. The bird now without guts will keep its size, floats better, and has a much longer shelf life without the smell. If properly done, you should only see about 1 inch size of foam. I learned this with Dave Mosher when we were in Texas.


----------



## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Bob Gutermuth said:


> In Maryland, game farm ducks, like those used for events have a rear toe clipped as ducklings to mark them as such. They don't count toward your possession limit. I've never been checked by a DNR officer when training.


 
 Bob
That is what we have too. 

I just caution you guys that sometimes the feds and the state are not on the same page in regards to migratory birds and I know someone who will tell you it just aint worth it.
BTW- I have no problem with using them, just saying sometimes you can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride and it might turn out to be more trouble than it is worth for something you can buy for $10. I have been checked while training and all our birds were toe clipped so no problem, but try a search on here for using birds killed while hunting in training, there is something about willful and wanton waste of game (don’t preach it to me, just the messenger) and I believe when this discussion (using wild shot birds) came up last year or the year before someone posted something from the feds about only being able to use farm raised or breasted wild birds.


----------



## Russ (Jan 3, 2003)

zipmarc said:


> We have to tie a tape to one leg and I usually have about 6 birds with me and that takes care of it. My AM group won't use any other species but mallards so the situation does not come up when I group train.


You do not have to flag domestically raised mallards in Calif. For a short time we compromised with DFG and agreed to flag them in trials but that is no longer necessary as the interpretation of the specific regulation was resolved in our favor. In most areas of the State, pheasants must be flagged when training.


----------



## haneym (Aug 18, 2006)

Leddyman said:


> Who uses frozen ducks? Do you thaw them? and how many do you keep for training? How often do you work them in?
> 
> Do you use them like bumpers? (O.K. after I typed that I realized how stupid it was) Of course you use them like bumpers Idiot! What else would you use them like?
> No...I wipe my butt with them!
> ...


we get ducks from Randy Simmons in Dawson, GA. i believe thats about 2 hours from you. i lost his number but his email address is [email protected]

you can pick them up from him or he will deliver for a per mile fee.


----------



## Sharon R. (Dec 28, 2005)

You can also check the Ga. Dept. of Agriculture and look at the Market Bulletin. Lots of ads there for live animals.


----------



## Jerry (Jan 3, 2003)

flyntwt said:


> not trying to hijack the thread, but out of curiosity- are there small freezers a guy like me can buy that arent as huge as a deep freeze... the wife doesnt like having _one_ frozen duck in the kitchen freezer, much less a dozen.


I bought a small chest type at Sam's several years ago that's perfect for a reasonable number of birds. Wouldn't try to put a hunnerd in it but 20-25 works very well.

Jerry


----------



## zipmarc (Jan 23, 2006)

Russ said:


> You do not have to flag domestically raised mallards in Calif. For a short time we compromised with DFG and agreed to flag them in trials but that is no longer necessary as the interpretation of the specific regulation was resolved in our favor. In most areas of the State, pheasants must be flagged when training.


Yeah, but we still have to tape farmed mallards at Grey Lodge. I wouldn't dare bring anything else there.


----------



## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

I _always_ thaw my frozen ducks.
How your you like to run across a field with something frozen in your mouth?
I believe it promotes "hard mouth" in dogs, to some degree, as they have to put more pressure on the bird to hold it.

I've ask Mike Lardy and Dennis Voight about this in the past. Both said to thaw the birds.


----------



## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks everybody. 

Very informative.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## norweigan dave (Mar 28, 2006)

you can find 5cu ones that will fit in the garage and hold up to 40 birds,ducks pheasents what ever kind you hunt for,and if you wrap them up with paper and try to put back in dry the birds will last a long time for you,but use bumpers if you have to correct alot,and birds for a award


----------



## Angie B (Sep 30, 2003)

norweigan dave said:


> but use bumpers if you have to correct alot,and birds for a award


Why??? Just curious...

Angie


----------



## Russ (Jan 3, 2003)

> we still have to tape farmed mallards at Grey Lodge


Hi Mimi,

This Grey Lodge requirement is for live flyers only, isn’t it? You’re not required to flag your pre-killed birds are you? And do they really require flagging of domestic mallards?

California regulations allow the Regional Manager to require the flagging of domestically reared game birds prior to release _if there is a need to distinguish them from other game birds in the area_. It makes sense when people are planting, for example, domestic pheasant in a field where there are wild pheasants present. If your birds have streamers, you (and the warden) can be certain that when a bird gets up you are shooting your bird, not the state’s. Distinguishing between wild and domestic mallards is not usually a problem when you are shooting hand released birds out of a crate. If there is some doubt, it can be easily resolved by looking for the missing toe.

Will you be at the San Jose trial? If so, I would like to talk to you about this.

Florence


----------



## zipmarc (Jan 23, 2006)

Russ said:


> Hi Mimi,
> 
> This Grey Lodge requirement is for live flyers only, isn’t it? You’re not required to flag your pre-killed birds are you? And do they really require flagging of domestic mallards?.....
> 
> ...


When we go there to train, we tape all so there is no argument. I'm not going to San Jose, will be judging Lassen, so my first entry won't be till Sagehens. Are you coming up - that's at Grey Lodge


----------



## Bud Bass (Dec 22, 2007)

of course there are, i bought a small 5 cu ft freezer, measures about 3 ft wide, 2 ft deep, and 3 ft tall, just for my ducks and fish bait. keeps the good freezeer from being smelled up. picked it up at a garage sale for $50.
________
Health Store


----------

