# Effectiveness of neoprene vests on dogs?



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

A vet and I were talking yesterday about the effectiveness of neoprene vests.

His feeling is that as the dog shakes the water out of the coat the water is replaced by air. This air helps insulate the dog from the cold. His feeling is that maybe putting the vest on the dog simply makes us feel better because we're doing something for the dog and that in fact the dog would be warmer sans vest.

Any thoughts or actual experiences?

Eric


----------



## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

I think there's something to that.
I do not use vests on my dog, and when hunting in groups, I don't see any difference between him and dogs that have vests on. Not that I have anything against them, but I know he would eat it the second I take my eyes off him anyway.

Our friends have evolved very specialized coats to keep them warm. If its too cold for them in their birthday suits, its probably too cold with a vest. The reverse being true also, I just never felt the need to put one on them. We all too often hear of dogs succumbing to the heat.......rarely the cold.


----------



## Tim Culligan (Nov 21, 2007)

I have a two year old lab with very thin/short hair that I put an avery boaters parka on when hunting in Lake Michigan during the late season. I do believe it helps him stay warm and the added flotation gives me peace of mind when hunting in 100' of water.
Tim


----------



## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20888


----------



## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Eric Johnson said:


> A vet and I were talking yesterday about the effectiveness of neoprene vests.
> 
> His feeling is that as the dog shakes the water out of the coat the water is replaced by air. This air helps insulate the dog from the cold. His feeling is that maybe putting the vest on the dog simply makes us feel better because we're doing something for the dog and that in fact the dog would be warmer sans vest.
> 
> ...


I think your vet is trying to analyze what he thinks might or might not be the merits of using a vest and my guess is that he has no experience with their actual use in cold conditions. I apologize if I'm misinterpreting, but I think your vet has little to no real experience with their use and is just engaging in an intellectual exercise. All he has to do is get in a cold duck blind with a wet dog and take his hand out of his wet glove and stick his numb hand up inside his dog's vest and feel the warmth/feeling return to his fingers and he'll know all he needs to know about neoprene vests. This observation applies to 5mm vests that fit the dog well.


----------



## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

Tell your vet to jump in a cold pond naked and swim around, and then put on a 5mm wetsuit and jump in and see which one he likes the best. The dog wil be wet under the suit but will quickly warm the water up to body temp which will be retained by the neoprene. I have spent many hours in frigid water in a wet suit doing river rescue and training, I have no doubts about its benefit to humans or canines.


----------



## Joseph Kendrick (Mar 19, 2010)

Flotation and protection. On a cold day I have taken the vest off my pup and you could see the heat coming off. Its also easier to help a pup get up onto/into something with the boaters type vests. 

I am of the opinion that anything a little extra we can do to help our pups we should do.


----------



## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

David McLendon said:


> Tell your vet to jump in a cold pond naked and swim around, and then put on a 5mm wetsuit and jump in and see which one he likes the best. The dog wil be wet under the suit but will quickly warm the water up to body temp which will be retained by the neoprene. I have spent many hours in frigid water in a wet suit doing river rescue and training, I have no doubts about its benefit to humans or canines.


I don't have experience with wet suits, but a lot of us can probably relate to this (which also supports the idea of the value of neoprene vests):

You fall in or get a leak in your canvas waders and you freeze.

You fall in or get a leak in your neoprene waders and you are cold briefly and then the neoprene waders and your body heat begin to heat up the water in your boots/waders and all of a sudden you are not cold anymore. I believe that the water trapped between the dog and the vest (less volume btw) is similarly warmed. Also like another poster noted, you can see the steam coming off them when you remove the vest.


----------



## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

Neoprene also contains a large amount of bubbles/gas pockets (why it floats) basically trapped air that can never get replaced by water, It also traps both water and air next to the dogs skin both of which will insulate. 
You don't see anyone deep water diving wearing a fur suit but you do see people diving wearing neoprene suits in cold water.


----------



## NOLA (Mar 18, 2010)

Also, when water on their coat evaporates, it pulls a lot of heat from the dog. The vest would stop this from happening.


----------



## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

kzunell said:


> You don't see anyone deep water diving wearing a fur suit but you do see people diving wearing neoprene suits in cold water.


I don't know if vests help dogs or not, but beavers, otters, seals, polar bears, etc. DO swim in cold water with fur coats...


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

HuntinDawg said:


> I think your vet is trying to analyze what he thinks might or might not be the merits of using a vest and my guess is that he has no experience with their actual use in cold conditions. I apologize if I'm misinterpreting, but I think your vet has little to no real experience with their use and is just engaging in an intellectual exercise. All he has to do is get in a cold duck blind with a wet dog and take his hand out of his wet glove and stick his numb hand up inside his dog's vest and feel the warmth/feeling return to his fingers and he'll know all he needs to know about neoprene vests. This observation applies to 5mm vests that fit the dog well.


Eric, this is your answer.........................period.

Anyone who has experience hunting in cold climates (ice on moving rivers and temps below zero) will attest to how valuable an asset these vests are. 

I think your vet is out to lunch................and I'd be happy to tell him/her that in person. 

Based on 45 years hunting dogs in cold climates regards,


----------



## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

I know a lot of trial people keep their dogs in running weight, do you fatten them up for huntin season ? 
In Ace's story, it looked like he was in running weight. DOES fat help? I don't know....


----------



## Laura McCaw (Jul 28, 2010)

Keith Stroyan said:


> I don't know if vests help dogs or not, but beavers, otters, seals, polar bears, etc. DO swim in cold water with fur coats...


This is because these animals have bodies that are accustomed to do this, and it is just not their fur that keeps them warm, but they also have inches of fatty tissue under that fur and skin that helps their body temperature. Labs do not have this extra fatty tissue.


----------



## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

I believe the vests offer some protection from rocks, stick-ups, etc. that may exist.


----------



## lablover (Dec 17, 2003)

Just stick you hand under the vest after the dog has been in the water.
You can feel the warmth, and so does the dog. Vests also provide some flotation factor, so that shoud save the dog a little energy while doing their job. Vests also provide a lot of protection from limbs and sticks to the under side of the dog.
I would never hunt mine this time of year without one. Hypothermia is an issue this time of year. It's not worth the risk, for my dog.


----------



## Jacob Hawkes (Jun 24, 2008)

Keith Stroyan said:


> I don't know if vests help dogs or not, but beavers, otters, seals, polar bears, etc. DO swim in cold water with fur coats...


Blank Stare. Blank Stare.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

HuntinDawg said:


> I think your vet is trying to analyze what he thinks might or might not be the merits of using a vest and my guess is that he has no experience with their actual use in cold conditions.


It was something of an intellectual exercise but it was fact based. He is an avid hunter and while he's between dogs, his dog of choice is a yellow lab. His hunting is largely confined to the SE but he has ranged up north sporadically. He's used vests from time to time and hasn't noticed any real improvement.

I was hoping that the sports medicine folks might have done something in this area.

Eric


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

Eric Johnson said:


> I was hoping that the sports medicine folks might have done something in this area.
> 
> Eric


I don't know what more you want out of this Eric? 

Kzunell posted a very informative (archive) link in the first two or three replies, Huntin Dawg gave you some solid advice and you've had posts from people with lots and lots of cold weather hunting experience.

What a sports medicine person could possible have to add to this, I don't know unless you're just after more intellectual exercise.

At any rate...........I'm out of this now...........Have fun.................


----------



## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

labguy said:


> Eric, this is your answer.........................period.
> 
> Anyone who has experience hunting in cold climates (ice on moving rivers and temps below zero) will attest to how valuable an asset these vests are.
> 
> ...


If you didn't make your dog sleep in a nice warm comfy' house all the time, it wouldn't have that problem. But, the fact is that most sane people provide shelter for their dogs, which reduces their ability to "coat up". It then becomes our responsibility to do what we prevented nature from doing
I will point out tho' that anyone that has hunted with dogs for 45 years knows full well that the dogs did just fine before vests for them were invented. If the dog's skin is getting wet, you have been giving your dog too many baths. Should also think about putting a thermometer under that vest sometime, it will surprise you, it's over 100 degrees in there.
The main thing with keeping a dog warm is keeping it out of the wind, vest or no vest.


----------



## J. Walker (Feb 21, 2009)

Eric Johnson said:


> A vet and I were talking yesterday about the effectiveness of neoprene vests.
> 
> His feeling is that as the dog shakes the water out of the coat the water is replaced by air. This air helps insulate the dog from the cold. His feeling is that maybe putting the vest on the dog simply makes us feel better because we're doing something for the dog and that in fact the dog would be warmer sans vest.
> 
> ...


I know some folks swear by them. The thing to remember is that it's not like the vests are watertight. Cold water flows into the openings and is then held against the skin. Like the vet said, the dog cannot then dry his coat so he continues to lose heat through conduction. I bought (and still have) a vest for my late Golden. During a particularly cold winter, I noticed that he shivered when he wore it and shivered little or not at all when he didn't. What I noticed was that his undercoat especially was soaked with the vest on and dried quickly with the vest off. The other consideration is that if you're hunting from a blind and have a portable heater, the vest actually insulates the dog from the heat as well.


----------



## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

kzunell said:


> http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20888


Yes, I remember reading that story. I thought at the time, *it was not for lack of a vest that got that dog in trouble.* 

Again, I'm not against vests, but *it is our judgement*, not any piece of neoprene, that keeps our dogs safe.

And comparing dogs with humans in this regard is completely invalid. No, I haven't seen divers in fur coats, but I haven't seen them eat kibble and sniff each other's butts either.


----------



## GulfCoast (Sep 24, 2007)

If you look on the archives at waterdog, you might could find the exact thread. Justin Tackett used a thermometer on his dog with and without a vest, in the same conditions, and posted the results. I forget how many degrees the dog's internal body temp rose with the vest, but there was a measurable difference per Tackett.


----------



## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

dnf777 said:


> Yes, I remember reading that story. I thought at the time, *it was not for lack of a vest that got that dog in trouble.*


I agree, the primary factor was the failure to get the dog out of the water between retrieves. I do think the lack of a good vest was a contributing factor though...even more so for a dog constantly in the water than for one in and out IMO.


----------



## davewolfe (Mar 22, 2010)

I started thread much like this one a couple of week ago.(neoprene vest) I thought alot about what people posted. Someone brought it to my attention, the dog will be dry under the vest before they are dry outside of the vest, I was surprise to found this to be true. vest would have to cut the wind.


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

tom said:


> If you didn't make your dog sleep in a nice warm comfy' house all the time, it wouldn't have that problem. But, the fact is that most sane people provide shelter for their dogs, which reduces their ability to "coat up". It then becomes our responsibility to do what we prevented nature from doing
> I will point out tho' that anyone that has hunted with dogs for 45 years knows full well that the dogs did just fine before vests for them were invented. If the dog's skin is getting wet, you have been giving your dog too many baths. Should also think about putting a thermometer under that vest sometime, it will surprise you, it's over 100 degrees in there.
> The main thing with keeping a dog warm is keeping it out of the wind, vest or no vest.


Ok, this has caused me to jump back in.

Tom, you don't know a damn thing about how I keep my dogs, what conditions I hunt in or what experience my opinion is based on. 

FYI: All my dogs are kenned outside, all the time, with no heat. Except for an hour or so once a day house time, they're outside 24/7, 365 days a year. They have never had a bath..............ever as I agree with you that tends to disolve the natural oils that protect them............I'm talking labs here. 

The temperature here right now is 15 degrees and will drop to about zero overnight so their coats are not a problem.

The problem is not the water temperature. The problem is outside temperature once the dog comes back to shore wet. If there is a brisk wind the chill factor can be very hard on a dog no matter how well conditioned they are to the cold weather and cold water. Ten of 15 minutes motionless, soaking wet, waiting for the next duck to decoy, will reduce any dogs core temperature siginificately if it's cold and windy enough. The vest simply provides a little more confort and reduces the likelihood of hypothermia...............read kzunell's link again. 

I certainly wouldn't use a vest in temperatures above 40 degrees as a weather conditioned dog can tend to heat up, but when it's significatly below freezing and the winds howling 10 or 15 MPH and your 5 miles by boat to your vehicle and your dog is getting hypothermic.....you bet I'll use a vest.


Maybe your idea of cold weather hunting and my idea of cold weather hunting are two different things................


----------



## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

My older lab has the perfect "lab" coat. Can't hardly get him wet with a hose for a bath. He never needed or wore a vest. My next oldest, doesn't have that coat and has been in a situation where he was in danger. He now wears one when it's cold and seems to help him float some too.

So I'd say it depends on the dogs coat.


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

Brad B said:


> So I'd say it depends on the dogs coat.


And...................the temperature your hunting in.........and where you live. 

Texas doesn't get that cold but up around the 49th parallel does.

Twenty below regards,


----------



## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

dnf777 said:


> Yes, I remember reading that story. I thought at the time, *it was not for lack of a vest that got that dog in trouble.*
> 
> Again, I'm not against vests, but *it is our judgement, not any piece of neoprene, that keeps our dogs safe.*
> 
> And comparing dogs with humans in this regard is completely invalid. No, I haven't seen divers in fur coats, but I haven't seen them eat kibble and sniff each other's butts either.


In your learned opinion, what do they hurt? Do you think that they offer no protection at all?


----------



## mrosspa (Oct 11, 2009)

A neoprene vest is a current topic on another forum. Most of the people are using a fitted vest from Belkin in Oregon, instead of the vests in the stores that doesn't fit any dog well. From my scuba diving experience a well fitting suit makes a difference to humans. I can't say about dogs.

The cost is $65, and if you give them the dimensions, they make it to fit your dog. 

I figure what could it hurt. I can cool the dog off in the Winter if he needs it, but it is hard to warm him if he is cold. I feel the cost is small considering the potential benefit to the dog. I'm sure the benefit will vary from dog to dog, and the only people that will know the answer are those that experiment with a vest.


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

The river had pretty well frozen over in November and thawed again around the 9th of December.

Water temp was 35 degrees and air temp around 10 degrees............

I know some dogs could do this without a vest (especially a Chessie) but it took 7 hours in the blind to get 16 ducks (2 limits).

In addtion to a one hour/each way boat ride............the dog was plenty cold by the time that day was over even with the vest.

My question is: Why wouldn't you use a vest in conditions like this???? Unless you don't like your dog.

A snug fitting vest and the dog never gets wet under it.


----------



## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

labguy said:


> Eric, this is your answer.........................period.
> 
> Anyone who has experience hunting in cold climates (ice on moving rivers and temps below zero) will attest to how valuable an asset these vests are.
> 
> ...


What type of vest did you use to keep your dogs warm & alive 45 years ago?

I had a friend of mine lose a dog when we were hunting in Colorado 12 years ago when his dogs vest got caught on some limbs and he couldn't get free. This left a lasting impression on me

I agree with Brad B that dogs coats can vary greatly; and are very important to this discussion. 
I have 4 dogs that are all exposed to the exact same conditions. I have vests for all of them, but have never used them.
My oldest male has a thick double coat for seemingly 11&1/2 months out of the year. I don't think it is possible to get his skin wet, but I really have to watch him in warmer months, as he retains that coat and can get overheated. I also have a dog with a thin coat who can get cold pretty easily. The luxury of having 4 dogs makes it so I just don't hunt this dog in cold water conditions, although I probably would use the vest if neccesary.
I think the most important factor is to get the dog out of the water when not retrieving. 
Additionally if you do use a vest make sure it fits well and do everything you can to reduce the chance of it getting caught on debris


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

mjh345 said:


> What type of vest did you use to keep your dogs warm & alive 45 years ago?
> 
> I had a friend of mine lose a dog when we were hunting in Colorado 12 years ago when his dogs vest got caught on some limbs and he couldn't get free. This left a lasting impression on me


45 years ago I didn't hunt dogs in the conditions I am able to today. Because of the vest I can go out in sub-zero weather on a icy river and have a great day duck hunting while the dog never looses its desire to retreive because it's getting hypothermic. I plan on being out Christmas day (last day of the season here) which has been my usual way to spend Christmas for the last 15 or so years.............. couldn't do that 45 years ago cause there were no vests. 

Obviously you need to be very careful about the vest getting tangled in debris.......it's called being aware of danger. Same thing with ice. A moving river with a shelf of ice has trapped and killed many a dog underneath it.

The operative in all this is preparedness for the conditions your hunting in. If it's cold enough out and depending on the dog then a vest can and is a life saving addition. 

It it's 70 degrees out and your using a vest, then a dog might suffer from heat stroke.................

It's all about using your head........which not many people seem to be capable of these days.


----------



## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

labguy said:


> Ok, this has caused me to jump back in.
> 
> Tom, you don't know a damn thing about how I keep my dogs, what conditions I hunt in or what experience my opinion is based on.
> 
> ...


Funny thing about water, if it's below zero the water is solid and the dog probablly won't get all that wet. Protect it from the wind and the dog is no worse of hunting than it is in the kennel run. I worry a lot more about milder temps and raining than I do about the cold days. I might just still be a kid (only 70 yo), but I've spent more than just a few days out hunting with a dog in sub zero degree weather. Come rabbit hunting with me in January if you want to experience cold weather hunting, your breath will make your eyelashes frost up.



> 45 years ago I didn't hunt dogs in the conditions I am able to today


I did! still do.


----------



## muddman (Oct 6, 2010)

My year old Boykin retireved some birds this weekend in the rain and was still dry under his vest. He wears a Boaters parka and it keeps him toasty.


----------



## JustinS (May 17, 2009)

my buddy's lab got hypothermia when we were kids, and he was even getting out of the water and shaking off the excess, a few days later when we had thought he was good Chip died- when I take my labs in weather below 35 degrees I never put them in with out a vest- you can say it depends on the wind the dogs coat the temp or how much they are getting in and out of the water but I am not going to put my dog through what my friends dog did. Plus after your done putting out decoys the vests are great for warming your hands Ha.


----------



## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

tom said:


> Funny thing about water, if it's below zero the water is solid and the dog probablly won't get all that wet. Protect it from the wind and the dog is no worse of hunting than it is in the kennel run. I worry a lot more about milder temps and raining than I do about the cold days. I might just still be a kid (only 70 yo), but I've spent more than just a few days out hunting with a dog in sub zero degree weather. Come rabbit hunting with me in January if you want to experience cold weather hunting, your breath will make your eyelashes frost up.


Maybe you'd like to re-think that first sentence in the above statement. 

For one thing, it usually takes many, many days after the air temperature drops well below zero for water to freeze, depending on size depth etc.

Moving water (i.e rivers) can sometimes go all season at well below freezing temperature without solidifying.

After 70 years on the planet, one would hope you might have noticed that by now. 

Thanks for the offer but I think I'll pass on the rabbit hunting ...........


----------



## tom (Jan 4, 2003)

> Maybe you'd like to re-think that first sentence in the above statement


ROFL
You mean you have never set the deeks out on a 'nice' morning only to watch the water freeze up around them? ;-)
When a vest *is* handy is when a dog has to brake through ice with every step because exhaustion becomes a multiplier of the problem.


----------



## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

M&K's Retrievers said:


> In your learned opinion, *what do they hurt*? Do you think that they offer no protection at all?


I was very careful not to disparage vests, in fact, I pointed out that I'm not against them. Please don't put words in my mouth.

My point was that *our judgement is what protects our dogs* and keeps them safe, not a piece of neoprene or anything else. Wear all the vests you want, wear two or three, I don't care. But just don't think because you have vest on your dog, you can quit worrying. 

People and dogs have hunted both safely and not safely, before and after vests hit the scene. They are a tool like anything else we use, that can't think for itself, but when used properly, may help.

Labguy, I choose not to use a vest, and I like my dog plenty. Thank you very much.


----------



## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

I've hunted my dog both in and out of a vest. 2 years ago the day after Christmas it was 34 degrees out and sleeting all day. Water temps in the low 40's. Not overly harsh compared to some of the conditions many dogs hunt in around the country. The first couple of retrieves my dog had a vest on and kept getting tangled in deke lines. He'd drag 2-3 in at a time. I ended up taking his vest off hoping that he would slip the deke lines easier. It helped greatly. There were 6 of us hunting that day and we all limited out. My dog made all of those retrieves except for the last 3. There were multiple times when he was in the water for 3-4 birds without getting out. The first 5-6 birds were with a vest on and the rest without it. His last retrieves were 6 birds that went down. He got 3 of them and after that just laid down in the blind. He was shivering and thoroughly cold. I tried to keep him dry in between retrieves but no luck. 

Before and after that he has always worn a vest. He has hunted in similar conditions and even colder conditions and as long as he has had a vest on he has always stayed warm. There have been multiple times I've put my cold hands under his vest and warmed them up on warm dry fur. Even if scientific proof came out stating not to use a vest I'd have to ignore it and keep him in one. By the way he's and outside dog that only comes in an hour or 2 a day for family time. His coat is nice and thick during the winter and he only gets a bath once or twice a year during the summer.


----------



## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm noticing a few things in this thread. I know it gets cold and snows in the SE and southern US, but I don't think it compares to the cold we regularly hunt in the extreme northern states, so individual anecdotal evidence can vary by region. Two, since we can't ask our dogs which is better, all we can do is speculate using our best logic on what works best for our dog, I'll share my best logic and observation;

1) Being a diver and having spent a lot of time in the water, I know that being submersed in cold water really saps away body heat and that wet suits are designed to hold a thin layer of water against the body that will warm up close to body temp. A loose fitting wet suit that allows cold water to circulate through, flushing that thin warm layer away defeats the purpose, but in a matter of degree is still probably better than nothing.
2) Cold wind on a wet coat could go both ways. I believe that if I let my dog shake out and dry off a bit, some coats are better at this than others, my dog will be warm and comfortable even on a below freezing day. On the other hand if he is in the water a lot it is better to just keep the vest on to shield him from the wind between retrieves and keep that thin layer of water warm. I do notice when I remove the vest steam just rises off him and when I put my hand inside his vest, which I do to warm my hands, it's very warm in there.
3) Lastly I notice that my dog shivers without a vest and doesn't with a vest.

My wife went to school with the O'Neill brothers in Santa Cruz back in the sixties, so later when we were into retrievers, we had custom, very tight fitting O'Neill wetsuit vest made for our dogs. I believe tight fitting is the key. I wish I could ask my dog which works better for him, but I'm guessing the vet is wrong on this one.

Note the pic of Cody in my avatar wearing his custom fitted O'Neill wetsuit. The areas I hunt, mostly big water and a big river don't have obsticals that would catch a vest, but I can see how you would have to use your own judgement if you hunted areas where that was a problem. Regardless of the many generations that hunted their dogs in cold weather before the advent of neoprene vest, these dogs aren't super-beings. I worry about them and their comfort hunting extreme cold even with a vest on. I hate it when people presume to be macho on their dog's behalf. Like I said, I wish we could ask our dogs which they prefer.


Notice the ice forming just outside the decoys.









Air temp around 10 degrees F, spring fed water barely above freezing, notice where the whole slough is frozen on the right...









John


----------



## Waterdogs (Jan 20, 2006)

I use to be a vest hater. I hunted a place that their were a lot of limbs and overhanging branches. I was afraid they would get stuck on them and it and it scared me. I do also think I had vests that fit my dogs poorly. Now I hunt ponds that the water is not so deep that if my dog gets in trouble I can get to him. I prefer dogs with good heavy coats and that is what I hunt. I hunt with a vest now alot. My vest fits my dog so that he does not even get wet underneath which is amazing. I have noticed like Tom said the wind is worse than anything. Getting wet and then braving the cold winds takes it out of my dogs the most. I live in the Northwest where it can get damn cold not as cold as some places but pretty cold.The guys that hunt the mighty Snake are the guys that have to be careful. You have big water long swims and extreme temp with often no way to get out of the cold. My friend hunts with two dogs to share the work and that seems to help. If my dog gets to cold or myself for that matter I can walk to the truck and start it up. I have learned to place my dogs health and well being over my desire to kill birds. The vests do work but do not replace common sense or smart judgement.


----------



## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Bumping this to the top...


----------



## MRC (Jun 30, 2009)

Gordon McQuarrie, one of my heros, hunted with canvas waders, used horse blankets and lanterns to warm himself in the blinds and drove a model-T 300 miles on unpaved roads through Wisconsin winters to hunt. 

To compare what people did 45 years ago, on any level, is really not fair. I think the technology is there now and to not use a $75 vest is crazy when you are talking about a family member. You can easily help him be more comfortable even if it is only relieving the pounding his chest takes from stuble or unknown sticks, etc. I think it is beyond debate that the vests are beneficial.

Mark


----------



## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Eric Johnson said:


> A vet and I were talking yesterday about the effectiveness of neoprene vests.
> 
> *His feeling is that as the dog shakes the water out of the coat the water is replaced by air. This air helps insulate the dog from the cold.* His feeling is that maybe putting the vest on the dog simply makes us feel better because we're doing something for the dog and that in fact the dog would be warmer sans vest.
> 
> ...


I can see his theory being correct for a dog that gets wet for a short retrieve, then spends most of his time onshore warming up. Where I see the theory falling apart is for a dog that is swimming long distances in extremely cold water. In that case there is no air to insulate the dog and the cold water just saps warmth from the dogs core. I have had my dog do multiple very long swims chasing a cripple where I worried to the point that I got the boat out to pick up dog and bird. I try to use my judgement and err on the side of safety.



Yoda did a couple 300 yard retrieves angleing across this pond to the right. He wouldn't ever complain, but when it was obvious he and the duck weren't giving up untill they were all the way across the pond and up in the orchard I pulled the boat out so he didn't have to swim all the way back.


----------

