# Nahra+hrc



## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

NAHRA and HRC hooking-up seems to me a win/win for both! Not trying to stir the pot just looking a a'why not" any comments??


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm wondering about "why", rather than "why not".



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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

Years ago when they split it was because of big egos. I'd expect now it would be about the same.


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

I also think it would be a great idea...but I think there are big enough differences in the programs that it would be very difficult for them to merge....each one likes it's own program well enough that they feel there is no need to change it..that's the feeling I get, anyway..

Juli


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## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

HRC has a "register" and there is strength in numbers-
ITS ABOUT THE DOGs!


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## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

Phase it in-Football did it-Basketball did it-consolidation saves resources and Perhaps we can learn something.
Anyway I got me a Winger on Its Way-HOT DAMN for Santa


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

Doc E said:


> I'm wondering about "why", rather than "why not".
> 
> 
> 
> .


HRC is far stronger than Nahra: FACT. Throughout most of the country, Nahra is a joke. Now, what was your question again?


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

MRC Dream said:


> Throughout most of the country, Nahra is a joke. Now, what was your question again?


 
would you care to expand on your statement?

what is your definition of 'joke'?


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

i guess it's a joke only people with big egos get, then....-Paul NAHRA member youpa01
HRC member 15007


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

131 HRC Clubs in 27 States and Canada 
8,500+ members -- 

and Nahra?


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

13 years ago I tried to promote this idea. Back then both organizations were about the same size.

NAHRA has a great program. HRC has a great organization. If they could combine the best of both or learn from each other, they both would be better. BUT I can't imagine them ever getting together after my previous experience 

AND

I wish them BOTH well. And AKC FT & HT, too. I'm in it for my dogs and very tired of the personalities.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

It will not happen. Far too many HRC folks would be against it for a variety of reasons. HRC is great the way it is. I can't speak to how good NAHRA is.....never seen it and it is nowhere within a 1000 miles of me at least and they have what 10 clubs? I don't see what NAHRA could bring to the party that would make HRC better, HRC has the registery, the program, the Grand and the members, can't think of a thing they need or would benifit form by merging


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

MRC Dream said:


> HRC is far stronger than Nahra: FACT. Throughout most of the country, Nahra is a joke. Now, what was your question again?


Just looked at your previous post, you know how to make friends dont ya!!!


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

MRC Dream said:


> 1. HRC is far stronger than Nahra: FACT.
> 2. Throughout most of the country, Nahra is a joke.
> 3. Now, what was your question again?


1. True --- Therefore?
2. Really ? --- Please explain your reason(s) for saying this.
3. It was, "Why" ?

Have you ever run in a NAHRA Field Test? Particularly in the Senior (Finished) level ?



.


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

MRC Dream said:


> 131 HRC Clubs in 27 States and Canada
> 8,500+ members --
> 
> and Nahra?


so, you are saying that the number of clubs and members is what makes NAHRA a 'joke'....Come on, what else?...I know you are itching to 'let loose'...so let's hear it....


If that's your only reason, then I'd say you don't have much of an argument to stand on.....

Juli


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

WOW, MRC Dream, tell us how you really feel...Guess you don't play well with others. Did you ever try NAHRA? Oh yea its a "joke." Did they kick you out of the secret society when you were young? I've played BOTH and like BOTH. Try to play nice.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

So, rank the order of esteem if you wish.......

AKC master hunter
UKC/HrC Grand Champion
Nahra.....whatever.....

This should be interesting.


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## kjrice (May 19, 2003)

MRC Dream said:


> HRC is far stronger than Nahra: FACT. Throughout most of the country, Nahra is a joke. Now, what was your question again?


NAHRA has an excellent program for testing hunting dogs. Whether it is the biggest or most popular is irrelevant. I applaud anyone that enjoys the outdoors and dog games, regardless, of venue. The only joke is this ignorant post.


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## Tstreg (Dec 28, 2005)

"esteem" is in the eye of the beholder. Some would say a CPR (thats a certified pointing retriever since you can't even name NAHRA's top title) is the most "esteemed." Its a GMHRCH-III. The III denotes three passes at the National Invitational held once a year. You should try hunting behind one sometime, its a treat. By one I mean a CPR or a NAHRA dog. They are ALL held in "esteem" in my book because I know the time, training money, travel and tallent needed to obtain ANY title.
FYI NAHRA has 33 clubs/18 states/3 canadian provinces, 251 judges, not sure on current membership. so what? I bet you don't have the guts to try any of the "other" games. I know your too chicken to show your real name. If we try to unite in the future I'll be sure to invite you to the meeting. Cheers


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## labman52738 (Jul 13, 2005)

MRC Dream said:


> So, rank the order of esteem if you wish.......
> 
> AKC master hunter
> UKC/HrC Grand Champion
> ...


I personally know of, and have judged, several dogs that were MH titled, that couldn't pass the Nahra senior tests. Chances are, you would probably be one of them!! I have also run in HRC, and there were many dogs I've seen running there that would not be able to pass the Nahra tests, at any level. All in all, in my experience, Nahra is the most thorough testing program.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

MRC Dream said:


> So, rank the order of esteem if you wish.......
> 
> AKC master hunter
> UKC/HrC Grand Champion
> ...


It would be MOST interesting if you would answer the question that has been posed to you (more than once).

Have you ever run in NAHRA ?
If the answer is "yes", have you run in the Senior (Finished) level ?

Anxiously awaiting a straight answer regards,



.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

labman52738 said:


> All in all, in my experience, Nahra is the most thorough testing program.


Precisely correct.
I (and especially the dogs) like 'em all.............. 
I headed up the formation of our local HRC Club, but NAHRA Senior is definitely more complete for the "all around" Hunting Retriever.



.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

labman52738 said:


> I personally know of, and have judged, several dogs that were MH titled, that couldn't pass the Nahra senior tests. Chances are, you would probably be one of them!! I have also run in HRC, and there were many dogs I've seen running there that would not be able to pass the Nahra tests, at any level. All in all, in my experience, Nahra is the most thorough testing program.


OMG.........that was funny. I'm just now catching my breath. 

Funny how you don't see any of the "awesome" nahra dogs making the jump to SRS or FT's like the HRC and AKC dog's do....just sayin.


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## Bill Watson (Jul 13, 2005)

Both NAHRA and HRC and AKC are fun for the dogs, as Mr Stroyan said, and that is what is important as far as I'm Concerned. Cleo and I were founding members of Great Southern Retriever Club which became Old South Hunting Retriever Club and were founding members of it also. I have also helped start 8 HRC clubs in the South East US. Time and distance were my limiting factors on both, I also judged both and continued to judge HRC until age caught up with me. Cleo and I were elected to life membership in HRC several National Meetings ago and I am very proud of the great honor. 

My membership number in HRC is 2024L and my judges number is 2253 I believe that if you run dogs, you should also judge as payback to those that judged so you could run your dog. I retired from a paying job when I was 54. I am now 80 and atribute that fact to having a bunch of dogs to keep me busy and associating with a bunch of great dog people, so don't mess any of it up. William J. Watson 2024L 2253
________
Live Sex Webshows


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## wojo (Jun 29, 2008)

Thanks to you and Cleo for the tremendous contribution!!!!!!

Silly discussion,, going no where.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

badbullgator said:


> ....HRC is great the way it is....
> ....I don't see what NAHRA could bring to the party that would make HRC better.....,


*how about a live bird every now and again*
Bunch of pompous hypocrites who all left NAHRA in droves because they were “real hunters” and then flocked to a program that puts more emphasis on what kind of trousers the human of the team has on instead of the condition of the bird that the dog of the team picks up. 
Has the sacred registry to track the very best hunting dogs yet will fail the most talented dog of the day if the human doesn’t put the popper firing gun safely in the orange metal holding rod. What that has to do with the soundness of the dog is lost on me.
Brag on about how they can play all day even if they screw up the first series…. How is that good??? Oh right, so the test wise dogs can have fun.
And what chafes me most is how they constantly harp about how much better they are…… To themselves.
And what makes me smile is the folk who, when getting ready to run a grand, enter a couple regular weekend NAHRA Field Tests. For the upland steady to flush.


.


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## Hunchaser (Jun 15, 2009)

It's the future. If you want our sport to continue and be a strong voice for pro-hunting then we all have to work/pull together. I say it's about time and we damn well better start looking after the young hunters and dog trainers coming up. 

This is start in the right direction.


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## chessielvr (Feb 8, 2003)

Speaking for my dog, he does not know if he is running AKC, CKC, HRC, or NAHRA nor does he care. Each organization has rules for their standard. I need to know them when I enter, he only needs to pick up the birds. I think we all need to be respectful of each other, the same amount of training goes into each dog to run and title in any of these hunt tests. Because I have run and titled in all 4, I do not believe that one is any better or worse that the other.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

MRC Dream said:


> OMG.........that was funny. I'm just now catching my breath.
> 
> Funny how you don't see any of the "awesome" nahra dogs making the jump to SRS or FT's like the HRC and AKC dog's do....just sayin.


What, no comments?? Really.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

can i stir the pot a little here? not like i ever have done so in the past.... ;-)


BUT - as much as people tout NAHRA, it is non-existent here in southeast Texas and LA - and anywhere close to the area - whereas AKC and HRC are very strong. in fact, i would venture that the concentration of AKC and HRC clubs/tests is likely thicker here than anywhere else in the country.

am i right/wrong? you can run about 12 AKC/HRC tests in spring within 2-3 hrs of 
Houston. more or less....can you do that anywhere else?

i guess my point is this - if NAHRA aint here, is it really a viable venue? does NAHRA dominate another area as strongly as it "doesn't" dominate here?

i'll sit back with my popcorn now... ;-)


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally Posted by *MRC Dream*
> _OMG.........that was funny. I'm just now catching my breath. _
> 
> _Funny how you don't see any of the "awesome" nahra dogs making the jump to SRS or FT's like the HRC and AKC dog's do....just sayin._





MRC Dream said:


> What, no comments?? Really.


MHR Banjo T Heakin, my first trial dog. He won an open but never titled. At one time I jammed an amateur and had recently failed about 4 NAHRA seniors in a row. I told everybody it was easier to finish an amateur than finish a NAHRA senior test. 

FC/AFC MHR Whitewater Quacker Tracker, 22 derby points, '98 Invitational finisher, Banjo's son and the first FC/AFC I made


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

Ain't talkin' about the dark ages pops.......;-)


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## Howard N (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm having a hard time thinking of '95 when Banjo won an open and about the time he earned his MHR as the dark ages. Track got his MHR in 98 and his FC in 03. Those just aren't the dark ages.

I promise I won't hold your lack of experience against you.


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## wsumner (Mar 5, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> *how about a live bird every now and again*
> Bunch of pompous hypocrites who all left NAHRA in droves because they were “real hunters” and then flocked to a program that puts more emphasis on what kind of trousers the human of the team has on instead of the condition of the bird that the dog of the team picks up.
> Has the sacred registry to track the very best hunting dogs yet will fail the most talented dog of the day if the human doesn’t put the popper firing gun safely in the orange metal holding rod. What that has to do with the soundness of the dog is lost on me.
> Brag on about how they can play all day even if they screw up the first series…. How is that good??? Oh right, so the test wise dogs can have fun.
> ...


I was going to stay out of this put I have to correct these misleading statements.

1. HRC rules do allow live flyers in all but started. They are not often used but are allowed.
2. Camo clothing is part of our rules. NARHA has rules also I think. They are even talking about having a rule book printed some day. How does the condition of the birds used in HRC differ from the birds used in NAHRA? 
3. Dogs are not failed for gun safety. They are disqualified along with the handler. A handler would only be disqualified if they were to put the gun down in an unsafe condition. Can't see where promoting safe gun handling is a bad thing. 
4. The only NAHRA test I ever attended allowed those that failed a serie to come back and run the rest of the test. I worked the Senior stake both days. I was told by the judge that this is common practice in NAHRA when the number of entries allow it. HRC limits there number of entries for this reason and the decision to run after failing is left up to the handler. If this is such a bad thing why was it permitted in NAHRA? By the way you attended that test as a judge.
5. NAHRA members boast about there organization being the greatest as much as HRC. Just go to their website.
6. Why would a person run a NAHRA test to get ready for the Grand? With only 33 clubs it would be awfully hard to find a club nearby that was holding a test prior to the Grand. Also you couldn't make any corrections if the dog wasn't steady to flush? Lot of money for one flush that has no training value. For training purposes it might make more sense to invest the money on some birds at a local game preserve. I think you are really reaching on this one. 

AKC, HRC, or NAHRA are all just dog games. No one is better that the other just different. My dogs will happily run any one that I enter. I just don't choose to run NAHRA.


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## Jim Person (Jan 5, 2003)

All I have to say is WOW. I thought we were all over this who is better, my dog is better than yours, akc is better than... hrc is better than..nahra is better than... bullshit..,but I guess not... The dogs don't care what organization is holding the test they just care about picking up birds to please their human.. Each one has their own set of rules, if you choose to play that game run by the rules period... if you don't like the rules run another one... if SRS and FT blow your hair back go for that too... I started in NAHRA in '95, started to run/judge HRC... I have since decided NAHRA is the game for me, no big deal, I just like it better that's all..I'd rather run acouple of nahra tests and spend my money on hunting licenses and hunting trips now... I guess my ego doesn't need the stroking.. I have many interests,hunting, fishing, dogs, beekeeping, cutting firewood, and somehow fit a job in to pay for it too. So do whatever makes you happy, life is too short to worry about what the other guy/girl is doing. A good dog is a good dog.. I'm off to the ice for some fishing ( by the way did I say I have a wonderful wife who I love dearly.. We went to a sporting show yesterday and she let's me go play with the new toys I bought on valentines day, and she is playing with the dogs around the house) Peace, Jim


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## dnf777 (Jun 9, 2009)

I guess this thread proves for the um-teenth time that if any two of the retriever venues ever get mentioned on the same screen, rapid decay into "my dog's better than your dog" is inevitable. Sad.

NAHRA has had rough times. It's had a few bad apples. It may not be prominent in the Houston area. But it has had many, many wonderful people and dogs, who have shared a passion for retrievers, good times, and good dogs. If that's accomplished, is there really any need to belittle or "rank esteem"? Is there not room for a few more clubs of a slightly different name, to allow weekenders to get together with their dogs and run some tests and have a good time? 

I would suggest that those who feel compelled to always criticize or insult any group of retriever enthusiasts, to take a little yellow pill and step away from the anger.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

Ken Bora said:


> *how about a live bird every now and again*
> Bunch of pompous hypocrites who all left NAHRA in droves because they were “real hunters” and then flocked to a program that puts more emphasis on what kind of trousers the human of the team has on instead of the condition of the bird that the dog of the team picks up.
> Has the sacred registry to track the very best hunting dogs yet will fail the most talented dog of the day if the human doesn’t put the popper firing gun safely in the orange metal holding rod. What that has to do with the soundness of the dog is lost on me.
> Brag on about how they can play all day even if they screw up the first series…. How is that good??? Oh right, so the test wise dogs can have fun.
> ...


Gee Ken I guess it depends on where you run it. Our club ALWAYS uses flyers in HRC;-)


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

MRC Dream said:


> Ain't talkin' about the dark ages pops.......;-)


Hey now son, Howard has forgotten more about this dog game than you will ever know. I have read all of your previouus 26 post and 75% of them are rude or foolish comments. Nothing of value at all. There are a lot of folks here you could learn from so quit being a punk and try to get better.

By the way, how did things go for ya in Tenn.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

perhaps we'll all get really lucky and MRC Dream will enlighten us as to what dog games he plays and the length and breadth of his training experience. so far, he or she is just an ugly talking troll.

here's some more ancient history from the dark ages for the troll:

fc/afc mhr hi-bird turk-he was on Lardys truck and can be seen on Total Retriever Training

uh hr gmhr canterbury's daisy may mh qaa-my dog, now deceased

uh hrch gmhr mfr northstar's canadian beauty mh qaa-my dog, and will hopefully be admitted to the HRC 500 point club this year, health permitting.

put your big boy or girl pants on and put a gmhr title on your dog. all you have to do is pass 15 senior tests......then, if you still want to trash-talk NAHRA you will at least have earned the right to show your ignorance. -Paul


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

MRC Dream,

Nice... show up and make a few posts and start talking smack right away. 

You still haven't answered the question of whether you've even SEEN a NAHRA test. You don't have your location in your profile... if you live in the northeast there are a number of very strong NAHRA clubs for you to visit to see the caliber of these dogs. The NAHRA board is also working to build the program in other parts of the country. We (NAHRA members) realize we're not the biggest program in the country, but our dogs don't know the difference and I guarantee they're trained just as well as dogs running similar stakes in other programs.

You ask why NAHRA dogs don't make the jump to SRS or other venues.... most NAHRA people I know are basically hunters that have the financial resources and time to just run NAHRA. Not sayin' other programs don't have the same time of folks, but that's just the type of person that is attracted to NAHRA.

You don't state the venue you run or the stake you have run your dog in. I'd put some NAHRA senior stake running dogs up against the top dogs in any of the other hunt test venues. Some NAHRA folks do in fact run field trials.

So, before you keep up your smack, how about telling us a little about yourself so we can evaluate whether you know anything of what you talk about or whether your just another troll.


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> *how about a live bird every now and again*
> Bunch of pompous hypocrites who all left NAHRA in droves because they were “real hunters” and then flocked to a program that puts more emphasis on what kind of trousers the human of the team has on instead of the condition of the bird that the dog of the team picks up.
> Has the sacred registry to track the very best hunting dogs yet will fail the most talented dog of the day if the human doesn’t put the popper firing gun safely in the orange metal holding rod. What that has to do with the soundness of the dog is lost on me.
> Brag on about how they can play all day even if they screw up the first series…. How is that good??? Oh right, so the test wise dogs can have fun.
> ...


Hey Ken, I have read the whole thread and have seen a lot of people who are active members of HRC defending the NAHRA. I have never seen a NAHRA event but I am sure they are great, any hunting dog event is in my book. I run a lot of HRC stuff and dont go around bragging how great I am to anyone. I dont hear many people that Run HRC stuff bragging how great they are either. What I do hear are people Bashing another venue on this forum. I have run HRC and AKC hunt test at their highest level in the short time I have been involved with this game. I have meet a lot of great people and am thankfull for that. I am sure I have also met some I dont see eye to eye with but that does not make the whole group bad. If its the rules you dont like please dont think we are inferior because we choose to participate.

Have a great day Ken.
Waitin for summer regards. Tim


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## labman52738 (Jul 13, 2005)

Howard N said:


> MHR Banjo T Heakin, my first trial dog. He won an open but never titled. At one time I jammed an amateur and had recently failed about 4 NAHRA seniors in a row. I told everybody it was easier to finish an amateur than finish a NAHRA senior test.
> 
> FC/AFC MHR Whitewater Quacker Tracker, 22 derby points, '98 Invitational finisher, Banjo's son and the first FC/AFC I made


FC AFC MHR Crow Rivers Malarkys Cougar
FC AFC CFC CAFC MHR GMPR Last Chance v Pekisko
FC AFC CAFC CFC MHR Jazztime
FC AFC GMHR Cedar Valley's Hi-bird Turk MH

Now, MRC Dream, as asked before, what are your credentials. According to your posts you must have several FC AFC titled dogs and know everything there is, right? But as I would probably guess, you haven't even run a middle level test in any venue, right again?


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

MRC Dreamin'....


We're all waitin.......


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

I'm really sorry to see this sort of exchange - again - still. I've run 'em all and dealt with all the organizations as a club officer. If it wasn't for the non-canine egos, a combination of HRC and NAHRA could make a better program for both. This "flame war" makes it clear that that won't happen. 

At least understanding both could contribute positively to each. This sort of exchange only encourages everyone not to look beyond the end of their noses. "My father is stronger than your father, nah, na, nah, naaa." 

Ken, no-doubt some HRC folks over-do the camo, but you must have been to a HT where people were wearing dark shiny black outfits or changing their camo to stand out better. I wear head to toe camo in all of them. It's simple if it goes beyond what's required. I think HRC has that one right.

I like shooting "primer loads" at the line. It's much harder to handle that way. I don't like shooting Winchester FT blanks - as we used to around here in HRC. HRC may over-do the gun handling a little, but I've been to other venues where a PRO handler stood at the line resting the muzzle on his foot - AAAAAHHH!

I don't train "swing to the gun" because I don't see a use for it in hunting, feel the dog should look out, not up, and consider it handling at the line. The only thing I hate worse than handling on marks is ... trying to. I think NAHRA got that one right with attention getters. Either way it's an artificial thing to try to simulate hunting where the dogs would watch the birds come in for a mile.

Sometimes I like to run out of a hide that looks like you might hunt ducks from it. Then the dog needs to be a little to one side or the other. I don't like extreme "remotes." I think it's silly to pretend you're hunting while sitting on a bare open shore on a white bucket. All-in-all it's a "draw" for hunting realism between the two.

Since I have owned/trained/handled 13 MHRs and 5 UH-HRCH's, I feel I can say that those are roughly comparable "titles." A great hunting dog needs real hunting experience beyond this level of training, too. In my experience great game dogs and great hunting dogs aren't always the same, either. But it can be fun to get your dog to this level off season.

Since I have scraped thru a few quals, I feel I can add that, in technical difficulty, neither is anywhere near AFC. Despite the "challenge" above a number of NAHRA folks have moved on to FTs. One of the finest FT pros out there started in NAHRA and he was a true professional and gentleman there, too. I'm not going to expand the list because this "challenge" missed the point of why hunt tests were started in the first place. I like 'em because I can train my own dog and "proof" them off-season.

When the tests are well-judged, I like the NAHRA a little better myself, but the best marks I saw one year were at Mississippi Valley's HRC with Dawn F. as one of the judges - I forget the other. And I ran all the venues that year. I've also run bad tests in them all. 

NAHRA and HRC started with the same basic plan. I wish them both well in continuing to pursue that. I also hope both organizations can provide the financial base to pursue that. In the last decade HRC has made amazing strides in that direction. I also wish we could treat each other with a little decency. I've met wonderful people in all the games, but I've also run across a number of bullies in them all who make me want to stay home and train on the weekends.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." Friedrich Nietzsche


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

MRC Dream said:


> OMG.........that was funny. I'm just now catching my breath.
> 
> Funny how you don't see any of the "awesome" nahra dogs making the jump to SRS or FT's like the HRC and AKC dog's do....just sayin.


TELL ME AGAIN WHO WON THE FIRST SRS???

Oh yeah "STELLA" a NAHRA dog and trainer, who spring boarded into a pro career.

NAHRA is almost entirely ameture trained dogs that HUNT in the "off-season" we have them for hunting. Just because we haven't trained them to run 500 yards doesn't mean they couldn't if trained to do it. Certainly not all of them or even a high percentage, but I would bet the percentage would be similar to the succes rate of the MH and HRCH dogs that tried it.




Tstreg said:


> "esteem" is in the eye of the beholder. Some would say a CPR (thats a certified pointing retriever since you can't even name NAHRA's top title) is the most "esteemed." Its a GMHRCH-III. The III denotes three passes at the National Invitational held once a year. You should try hunting behind one sometime, its a treat. By one I mean a CPR or a NAHRA dog. They are ALL held in "esteem" in my book because I know the time, training money, travel and tallent needed to obtain ANY title.



Terry I got your back all the way but I think you are talking about a MPR/GMPR Grandmaster Pointing retriever. Some have gone to a 4XGMPR.... And I will tell you that the Master Pointing Lab test makes you pucker. Gotta take the dog from a AKC senior retrieving with the blinds incorperated to a upland field with standards at least as high as a Master Pointing dog.....




labman52738 said:


> I personally know of, and have judged, several dogs that were MH titled, that couldn't pass the Nahra senior tests. Chances are, you would probably be one of them!! I have also run in HRC, and there were many dogs I've seen running there that would not be able to pass the Nahra tests, at any level. All in all, in my experience, Nahra is the most thorough testing program.



Tom got your back too, but to be fair there are probably some NAHRA dogs that can't pass an AKC test or HRC with out any fine tuning to the nuances of the differences. All of these dogs are spectacular animals when trained to this level. But there is differences in the tests that would give dogs trained just to one test fits in the others....


Most dogs that excell in one venue given the fine tuning needed could excell in all three.

NAHRA makes hunting dogs go through "stuff". Several times AKC guys that train with us or show up at a test will look at weed patches or brush piles that we want these "hunting dogs" to go through or into....

NAHRA is the MOST COMPLETE test of the retriever games. Our dogs are expected to do what some of the other handlers are scared to ask you dogs to do.

Case in point, and I hope I am not stepping on any toes, but the MINNESOTA MASTER is a test/trial that is held in Minnesota that invites dogs from the different venues to come play and find out who is top dog in the state when it comes to hunting retrievers.....

It was set up so that ANYTHING allowed in any venue was at the judges disposal. After the first two years they had to exclude the steady to flushupland quarter, because only the NAHRA dogs did it. The Next year they had to exclude the trail because it eliminated so many non NAHRA dogs.....

As said before HRC has a better organization, I suppose having a registry helps pay for some of that. We just have a best TEST which is why I play any doggie game.

Not the biggest just the best.

I am proud of the growth I have made as a trainer coming through the NAHRA program, some of my closest friends are guys I met through the NAHRA program so yeah calling it a joke offends the hades out of me, and for what its worth....

I am DAMN PROUD OF MY GMHR-II!


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

TIM DOANE said:


> Hey Ken,.....
> If its the rules you dont like please dont think we are inferior because we choose to participate.
> 
> Have a great day Ken.
> Waitin for summer regards. Tim


 
No it’s not the rules at all. Why would it be NAHRA’s were first anyway? Anything else it just a knock off.
It’s not the folks running, most of them. As many are running what it available to them.
What it is, IS. Is the double standard of hrc folk who can say anything about NAHRA at any time be it true or false and it is just innocent conversation. The minute any NAHRA facts are presented to respond the masses jump on the NAHRA person for bashing and hating. These are always started by hrc people with there “Lets Kill NAHRA” mindset. I have heard hrc folk matter of factly state NAHRA is dead. Heard them say not to bother renewing membership as it is a waste of money. Lie upon lie upon lie, time and again. It seems every time I turn on RTF I have to wonder who will be attacking my favorite game today.
It is quite simple really. If you don’t like the mauling, don’t poke the bear! Because I am not the bad guy here, on this thread or any thread.
If it is fine for hrc folk to dance merrily ‘round the May pole, well then I gotta right to prance gaily as well, don’t I??????????????

.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

Jim Person said:


> All I have to say is WOW. I thought we were all over this who is better, my dog is better than yours, akc is better than... hrc is better than..nahra is better than... bullshit..,but I guess not... The dogs don't care what organization is holding the test they just care about picking up birds to please their human.. Each one has their own set of rules, if you choose to play that game run by the rules period... if you don't like the rules run another one... if SRS and FT blow your hair back go for that too... I started in NAHRA in '95, started to run/judge HRC... I have since decided NAHRA is the game for me, no big deal, I just like it better that's all..I'd rather run acouple of nahra tests and spend my money on hunting licenses and hunting trips now... I guess my ego doesn't need the stroking.. I have many interests,hunting, fishing, dogs, beekeeping, cutting firewood, and somehow fit a job in to pay for it too. So do whatever makes you happy, life is too short to worry about what the other guy/girl is doing. A good dog is a good dog.. I'm off to the ice for some fishing ( by the way did I say I have a wonderful wife who I love dearly.. We went to a sporting show yesterday and she let's me go play with the new toys I bought on valentines day, and she is playing with the dogs around the house) Peace, Jim


best quote so far


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## Robert (Feb 28, 2006)

Jim Person said:


> All I have to say is WOW. I thought
> e were all over this who is better, my dog is better than yours, akc is better than... hrc is better than..nahra is better than... bullshit..,but I guess not...


No doubt Jim.

This topic on chat boards and in the field is absolutely prevalent today. It leaves a bad
taste in my mouth and is a major turn off regardless of the venue you run. It irritates me
so much I get less involved with organized clubs each year because of these higher then
mighty, my dog is better than yours, this title mean more, blah, blah, blah people.

I train because it's enjoyable. I don't stick to any one venue so I can proclaim my dog is
better than a dog in another venue. This is a stupid pi$$ing match among ordinarily
intelligent people.

MRC Dream - -Your not the type of person I'm familiar with in AKC, HRC or NAHRA.
The majority of handlers I meet are open minded, friendly, and do it for the dogs.


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## dixidawg (Jan 5, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> If it is fine for hrc folk to dance merrily ‘round the May pole, well then I gotta right to prance gaily as well, don’t I?????????????? .


 
Anyone have any mental floss???? 

I sure hope that image isn't burned permanently into my brain...


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> No it’s not the rules at all. Why would it be NAHRA’s were first anyway? Anything else it just a knock off.
> It’s not the folks running, most of them. As many are running what it available to them.
> What it is, IS. Is the double standard of hrc folk who can say anything about NAHRA at any time be it true or false and it is just innocent conversation. The minute any NAHRA facts are presented to respond the masses jump on the NAHRA person for bashing and hating. These are always started by hrc people with there “Lets Kill NAHRA” mindset. I have heard hrc folk matter of factly state NAHRA is dead. Heard them say not to bother renewing membership as it is a waste of money. Lie upon lie upon lie, time and again. It seems every time I turn on RTF I have to wonder who will be attacking my favorite game today.
> It is quite simple really. If you don’t like the mauling, don’t poke the bear! Because I am not the bad guy here, on this thread or any thread.
> ...


Why did you not quote my entire post ? Please quote my entire post and then see if you are making any sense here.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

I am still just curious what MRC Dreamin's OTHER screen name is.....


just sayin'

regards. 

PS lets everyone do something nice for our "other" then go play with the dogs where weather permits....


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

TIM DOANE said:


> Why did you not quote my entire post ?


The “……..” signifies the edit. I do it for convenience of the reader. They know what you typed as it is on the same page right above. I use the line I am directly responding to and type. I hate those posts where a person quotes 7 paragraphs of somebody else and then just types something like “good job” you know?

.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

But, Ken, PLEASE don't post a photo of you and Gooser pole dancing or whatever it was.

PLEASE.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

FWIW I hate all of the mine is bigger then yours or whatever "debate" that goes on.....

Just going to point out that NAHRA folks are a close knit group and we will defend our organization.

Poke a sleeping bear and what happens? MOST of this is in reaction to an idiot. The rest a chain reaction of non idiots getting sucked into the massive black whole that is idiocracy.....

Be nice to your wife and have fun with the dogs.....


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

> like shooting "primer loads" at the line. It's much harder to handle that way. I don't like shooting Winchester FT blanks - as we used to around here in HRC. HRC may over-do the gun handling a little, but I've been to other venues where a PRO handler stood at the line resting the muzzle on his foot - AAAAAHHH


That had to be me,,,


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## DoubleHaul (Jul 22, 2008)

I think I have met MRC Dream--or one of his twins. In the mid to late 90s, I lived in NoVA area. I ran NAHRA and was quite active. It was great. In that area, you could run every weekend and sleep in your own bed every night, there were so many events close by. I moved away to an area where NAHRA was not so active so I checked out HRC and AKC. The HRC folks I ran into seemed to spend all their time talking about how great HRC was, how it was just like hunting and everything else was a POS compared to HRC. It really turned me off to HRC, so I started running AKC. Unfortunately, when I moved back to an area that was previously strong in NAHRA, the organization had imploded, so I stuck with AKC.

I have since learned that everyone in HRC is not like those folks or MRC Dream. I have lots of friends who play the HRC game and am a member of an HRC club, but still I don't run HRC events. There are always still a few folks who seem to spend more time talking bad about other organizations than messing with dogs. I can't recall anyone at an AKC event ever mentioning another venue, other than to say that they also run and enjoy them.

HRC may well be the one true religion, but I think it would help if folks would stop bashing the others and just run their dogs.


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

MRC Dreamin has won, he/she successfully has started people chewing on one another again. 
6 pages of mine is better then yours, I personally will take a dog with an MHR , HRCH ,WR or HR into my blind anyday. Of course if there is an MH or QAA after that name they are welcome too.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

TIM DOANE said:


> Hey now son, Howard has forgotten more about this dog game than you will ever know. I have read all of your previouus 26 post and 75% of them are rude or foolish comments. Nothing of value at all. There are a lot of folks here you could learn from so quit being a punk and try to get better.
> 
> By the way, how did things go for ya in Tenn.


I guess you missed  and  after my post? 

Sensitive bunch. :evilbat:


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

MRC Dream said:


> I guess you missed  and  after my post?
> 
> Sensitive bunch.


That really doesn't cut it when you start slinggin' mud and then don't respond to inquiries about your qualifications to make such statements even if they have  and .

Tell a little more about yourself, unless you truly are a troll.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

DoubleHaul said:


> ... In the mid to late 90s, I lived in NoVA area. I ran NAHRA and was quite active. It was great. In that area, you could run every weekend and sleep in your own bed every night, there were so many events close by. ...


I lived in NoVA in the early-to-mid '90s and ran AKC and NAHRA. My first ever retriever event was a NAHRA Started. Challenging marks--down and up hill on land, and then long water retrieves in a beaver pond with lots of rolling logs to climb over. I was so proud of my dog for passing that. 

You *could* run every weekend, and it was great. Club members coming out to throw, inviting newbies to training groups, general enthusiasm and camaraderie. People who would give you the shirt off their backs (if you hadn't read the rules and showed up inappropriately dressed). It was a great start for a newcomer in the process of getting bitten by the bug.

Think I'll renew my membership. 

Amy Dahl


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

afdahl said:


> I lived in NoVA in the early-to-mid '90s and ran AKC and NAHRA. My first ever retriever event was a NAHRA Started. Challenging marks--down and up hill on land, and then long water retrieves in a beaver pond with lots of rolling logs to climb over. I was so proud of my dog for passing that.
> 
> You *could* run every weekend, and it was great. Club members coming out to throw, inviting newbies to training groups, general enthusiasm and camaraderie. People who would give you the shirt off their backs (if you hadn't read the rules and showed up inappropriately dressed). It was a great start for a newcomer in the process of getting bitten by the bug.
> 
> ...


...and you'd be welcomed back with open arms.... we'd love to build a presence in the southeast with some new clubs. Gotta take that first step....


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

Mike Tome said:


> That really doesn't cut it when you start slinggin' mud and then don't respond to inquiries about your qualifications to make such statements even if they have  and .
> 
> Tell a little more about yourself, unless you truly are a troll.


Listing of credentials is meaningless and petty. It's about the dogs, right?

I also find the name calling (ie: troll/idiot) to be quite childish. If you check, I have not resorted to that juvenile tactic, nor will I. I made a joke with the "pops" reference, and I'm sure the person I said it to has a better sense of humor than most in here. If not, then I apologize for my dark humor. 

So, continue on with the petty fight, as most know that HRC/AKC and FT's are where the real dog's are. Nahra really isn't worthy of logical discussion.


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

MRC Dream said:


> Listing of credentials is meaningless and petty. It's about the dogs, right?


TROLL!!!!


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

paul young said:


> perhaps we'll all get really lucky and MRC Dream will enlighten us as to what dog games he plays and the length and breadth of his training experience. so far, he or she is just an ugly talking troll.
> 
> here's some more ancient history from the dark ages for the troll:
> 
> ...


Paul, you can ad my first trial dog to your list. AFC GMHR Mr. Tanner's Pioneer Preacher. I ran Nahra and FT's at the same time with this dog and he loved both. As well as hunting his rear end off! 

You are right about Turk, he was a Nahra legend at the time he went to Lardy and became an outstanding FT dog.

There are many field trialers out there today because of hunt tests, no matter which type...


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

Just Deamin',

You say credentials aren't important.. are petty. then you go and slam NAHRA again.

What do you even know about NAHRA?

At this point in time, unless you can back up your statements with some cred.... I'm done responding to your trollin'...


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## Bill Watson (Jul 13, 2005)

If I were looking for a person to decide which organization was best to run I would contact a person most of us have come in contact with one way or another over the years. That would be MR. JERRY DAY owner of Day's End Super Sue. The ONLY title Sue DIDN'T have was the Grand HRCH title of HRC. She had one Grand pass and would have had the second pass necessary for her title except for a DAH mistake. Jerry and Sue started out in NAHRA and went through field trials and additionally SRS. Not only was he a good dog handler he was a gentleman by any standards and his wife Jean was SUPER TOO.

Put it to rest, run and love your dogs, Bill
________
LIVE SEX


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

Ken Bora said:


> No it’s not the rules at all. Why would it be NAHRA’s were first anyway? Anything else it just a knock off.
> It’s not the folks running, most of them. As many are running what it available to them.
> What it is, IS. Is the double standard of hrc folk who can say anything about NAHRA at any time be it true or false and it is just innocent conversation. The minute any NAHRA facts are presented to respond the masses jump on the NAHRA person for bashing and hating. These are always started by hrc people with there “Lets Kill NAHRA” mindset. I have heard hrc folk matter of factly state NAHRA is dead. Heard them say not to bother renewing membership as it is a waste of money. Lie upon lie upon lie, time and again. It seems every time I turn on RTF I have to wonder who will be attacking my favorite game today.
> It is quite simple really. If you don’t like the mauling, don’t poke the bear! Because I am not the bad guy here, on this thread or any thread.
> ...


From what I read there was only one person here bashing your favorite game and a bunch of others, HRC folks included defending your game and getting on the orginal offender. Then you busted out with your opinion of all us HRC people and how we hate your game and the real battle began. Go back and reread and see if I am right. I hope your day gets better Ken.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Mike Tome said:


> ...and you'd be welcomed back with open arms.... we'd love to build a presence in the southeast with some new clubs. Gotta take that first step....


OK, here's a problem. Google searches bring up a NAHRA News site but I can't find anywhere to renew membership in NAHRA itself. Last time I renewed it was through a website. Does the site still exist? IMO it needs to be there, and it needs to be findable on Google!

Amy Dahl


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

Amy

Here ya go : http://www.nahranews.org/uploads/docs/forms/joinform.pdf



.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

I hear NAHRA is trying to develop a new website ...

Welcome back Amy. Run 'em all.


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

_I am still waiting for MRC Dream to come up with SOME sort of reasonable FACT on his stance that NAHRA is a joke....or even post the success he's had with HIS dogs in the other venues....._

_MRC, have you EVER run a nahra event? if not, then you have NO call to pass judgement. _

_period,_
_end of story._

_Juli_


----------



## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)




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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

Juli H said:


> _I am still waiting for MRC Dream to come up with SOME sort of reasonable FACT on his stance that NAHRA is a joke....or even post the success he's had with HIS dogs in the other venues....._
> 
> _MRC, have you EVER run a nahra event? if not, then you have NO call to pass judgement. _
> 
> ...


Just put him/it on your ignore list. His nonsensical posts are not worth reading.


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

huntinman said:


> Just put him/it on your ignore list. His nonsensical posts are not worth reading.


 
that is a GREAT idea....


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## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

Wow! what a waste of RTF space-thanks for those who had something constructive and the others chill/decafe or something!!
John


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

Ken Bora said:


> *how about a live bird every now and again*
> Bunch of pompous hypocrites who all left NAHRA in droves because they were “real hunters” and then flocked to a program that puts more emphasis on what kind of trousers the human of the team has on instead of the condition of the bird that the dog of the team picks up.
> Has the sacred registry to track the very best hunting dogs yet will fail the most talented dog of the day if the human doesn’t put the popper firing gun safely in the orange metal holding rod. What that has to do with the soundness of the dog is lost on me.
> Brag on about how they can play all day even if they screw up the first series…. How is that good??? Oh right, so the test wise dogs can have fun.
> ...


First of all I'm not going to knock anybody, but I have never been too or seen an AKC or NAHRA test. 

But, HRC does allow shot flyers, problems come in when judges aren't properly taught how best to incorporate them. Just because you have a shot flyer doesn't mean it's better or tougher. They have to be used properly, and I would guess that in all venues there are judges that do not know how to properly use them, usually making it worse instead of better. 

Attire: HRC's motto is "By hunters, for hunters". Therefore we emphasize Camo clothing or hunting attire. The tests are _supposed_ to be the _same_ for each participant. Therefore, the handlers should dress similarly. If you don't care for the rule, then play another game, but don't criticize my choice because _you_ don't like it. Me personally, I find it fun and makes for an enjoyable day.

The use of a gun - It's our instrument when hunting.
Failing a dog for the handler being unsafe with the gun - They are a team: one member fails (dog or handler) the TEAM fails. If the handler of the dog is unsafe with the gun (be it testing, training, or hunting) the dog can be *killed*. That is another important reason to judge how the handler handles a gun! But since HRC is the only ones to actually use a gun, then I guess that is why WE find it MORE important. 

How is it good to let the team continue after failing a portion of the day? ME, I usually pick my dog up and put him on the truck for the day. But I have run the dog in another portion of the test because I knew that it would not cause more problems and I get to train some under testing conditions which I can NEVER fully duplicate. Have to know your dog and if it will lead to becoming test wise, _my choice_. Lastly, I PAID to play ALL day!

I won't say HRC is better, because I don't have enough experience with the other 2 to make an informed decision. But, If HRC is so bad why do the numbers of members, clubs, and areas having them GROW every single year? I have 7 clubs within a 2 hour drive of me and 7 more within 4 hours drive. I have to travel 3 - 4 hours for 1 AKC and no NAHRA clubs. Sorry.

As for who has the most complete program or produces the most all around dog - don't know. I just know that HRC FITS ME, the way I train, the way I hunt. I can take any one of my dogs Dove, Waterfowl, or Upland hunting and have a very enjoyable day with a well mannered, well trained dog. If AKC or NAHRA does the same - wonderful, more power to them. I just know the program I love. If yours fits you better, good have a ball. I sure won't discourage or bad mouth you or the program of your choice. 

Personally, a joining of HRC and NAHRA in MY opinion would benefit NAHRA more than HRC. But that is my opinion. I just don't see what NAHRA has to offer ME, that I am not already getting from HRC and yes, we have a registry. 

If you choose AKC or NAHRA over HRC, fine no skin off my nose. I wish you all the best and sincerely hope the program of your choice helps you produce the dog you want. Good luck to you and enjoy the dogs, just respect MY choice of program as much as I respect yours and we'll have a pleasant time discussing how we can better our hunting companions. Each group is passionate about their OWN group, that is GOOD. But just because I find the way you do things different and may not agree with them, I will NOT bad mouth you. That is how YOU want to play and this is how I want to play. I just think it is important that we PLAY. I have tried to just put forth how HRC does things without putting the other groups down, because I respect YOUR decision to do things that way. So PLEASE give me the same respect and let me play the way I want too. I could tell you that I have a Master Hunter in for training who ran the Master National last fall that couldn't pass an HRC Seasoned test right now. I COULD say that it is because THAT program isn't as good as ours, but the truth is, he has NOT been TRAINED for our style of test. That is why I don't like to compare. I'll put a Championship Title on him, I just have to train him on some of the differences. I am sure it would be the same if the situation were reversed. The important part is that we ALL get well trained dogs that hunt to the style we each like. Do what works for you and I'll do what works for me. And lastly, do as the HRC Administrative Secretary says "Hug the Dogs".


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Until NAHRA died in the SE (in a contest of wills between two folks), I thoroughly enjoyed running all three standards. Not once did I hear a dog say, "Durn. Why do we have to run X when we could be running Y." To my thinking, a dog that competed in all the events was more well-rounded.

Eric


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## road kill (Feb 15, 2009)

Well, I wanted an opinion straight from the horses, er, dogs mouth.
So, since we ran NAHRA, AKC & trained with and attended some HRC events last summer I thought I would ask Elvis (my pup and COO of "Team Elvis") what he thought.

He just wagged his tail and licked my face.............




rk


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

Still wondering what his "other name" is.....

Seems way to on top of the thread and opinionated and in love with his pot stirring to only have 33 posts in a year.......

No location, no bio info at all..... Just saying if you are afraid for people to know who you are after you say something perhaps you shouldn't say it.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

Elvis buddy, you got that right!


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## Paco (Feb 14, 2007)

John Goode said:


> NAHRA and HRC hooking-up seems to me a win/win for both!


I for one Agree.The win/win would be for the dogs.Doubt it will ever happen though.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

Paco said:


> I for one Agree.The win/win would be for the dogs.Doubt it will ever happen though.


Maybe AKC, NAHRA & HRC and FT should all blend together -- then we would really have a cool new venue ----- Oh - Wait - we do - it's called SRS (of course we would need both Flushing and Pointing divisions)

More venues is better regards,



.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

limiman12 said:


> Still wondering what his "other name" is.....
> 
> Seems way to on top of the thread and opinionated and in love with his pot stirring to only have 33 posts in a year.......
> 
> No location, no bio info at all..... Just saying if you are afraid for people to know who you are after you say something perhaps you shouldn't say it.


Does that bother you? 

Been around a while regards, 

MRCd


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

"been around for a while" with now 34 posts, most of which have been pretty viralant and pot stirring.

Just makes a person think that you are someone with an agenda, or someone that is an (I will save the moderators some work) and wants to hide behind a screen name....

The fact that there are people who are apparently too ashamed of what they have said or done, but say it anyway in the world does bother me, and the fact that you will not provide any credentials about yourself while dragging down a small, but credible organization reminds me that as with the rest of the world, there are some definate (saving the moderators some work again) for people in the dog world as well. And that truly bothers me, cause I had been niave enough to hope that the dog people or at least HT people were all people that were good people through and through. Of course there is still hope, cause you don't seem to be willing to admit which venue, or where you run.....

I guess I know you are not NAHRA, more reason to keep running it I guess!

If I were you I would be embarrassed also.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

Perhaps RTF could have a certain amount of Bio info required for posting rights???? Might eliminate psuedo-people like this.....


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## huntinman (Jun 1, 2009)

MRC Dream is my whole "Ignore list". Much more pleasant reading now. Once you put someone on Ignore, none of their posts appear. Nice...


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh the drama.......


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

There's a guy at the Refuge that's just like MRC -- His screen name initials are T G

I never put anybody on Ignore -- I love reading stupid posts from secretive, sissy nobody's.



.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

> I love reading stupid posts from secretive, sissy nobody's.


 
:razz::razz::razz:


My Fan Base,,, My Fan Base!!!

My autographs are free however!!

Gooser


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

MRC Dream said:


> Oh the drama.......


Tell us... what's it like, under the bridge by the river?

TROLL


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

:razz:


Mike Tome said:


> Tell us... what's it like, under the bridge by the river?
> 
> TROLL


A nahra guy showing his arse.......imagine that...... You Nahra folks are a trip. 30 clubs world wide........lmfao......


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## caglatz (Aug 21, 2006)

HRC may have hundreds of clubs but not in my area, My dog runs NAHRA and will start AKC -- no sense in having any hostilities towards any venue. The proof and my reward shows during hunting season - and I will be willing to match any NAHRA MHR-level and above with any other venue elites (no better nor worse). The dogs don't care and somehow to me that seems smarter than some of the posters on this thread.

I have wondered also why there isn't a combination of venues but have come to realize its "human-based" egos and not really a dog issue - so let it be. If anyone needs me, I'll be out training with my dog.


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## M&K's Retrievers (May 31, 2009)

MRC Dream said:


> :razz:
> 
> A nahra guy showing his arse.......imagine that...... You Nahra folks are a trip. 30 clubs world wide........lmfao......


I'm going to see how this ignore deal works.


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

I am just waiting to see if he is going to enlighten us with which venue he has titled how many dogs in. Obviously all of them since he is such an expert.....

Forgot who it was but someone mentioned that the only people truly qualified are those that run all three. They all seem to think they are comparable. I like NAHRA and the people in it. I also run APLA. My next dog will run those two and perhaps some in the upper levels of the other two. Provided i don't run into too many "experts" like this one.


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## Micah Duffy (Jan 21, 2010)

afdahl said:


> I lived in NoVA in the early-to-mid '90s and ran AKC and NAHRA. My first ever retriever event was a NAHRA Started. Challenging marks--down and up hill on land, and then long water retrieves in a beaver pond with lots of rolling logs to climb over. I was so proud of my dog for passing that.
> 
> You *could* run every weekend, and it was great. Club members coming out to throw, inviting newbies to training groups, general enthusiasm and camaraderie. People who would give you the shirt off their backs (if you hadn't read the rules and showed up inappropriately dressed). It was a great start for a newcomer in the process of getting bitten by the bug.
> 
> ...


I Think Ill go join NAHRA too!
I live in a rural communtiy. Great for Hunting, fishing, dog work(well 9 months out of the year due to weather) and whatever else you enjoy in the outdoors. Because of this It involves a great deal of travel to get to area where other people are available and clubs can be found. There is nothing like dog games. PERIOD!! Thats why we are all here. Any organization that supports working, hunting or improving our dogs will get my support. The way I see it the more of them that there are the better off we all are. And I may actually get one thats closer to me one day because of this. One organization or another has something for everybody. All will have good and unfortunately bad things or unpreferred things about them. But from the joy the dogs bring me and the fantastic part of my life that the dogs occupy I will support any organization that ends up for the betterment of the dogs and handler.
Just a note that if its the dress code that keeps you from joining an organization that is designed to better ourselves and our dogs thats just plain sad for you and your dog(s)!!!!!
Separate or together NAHRA and UKC(HRC) and AKC all about the betterment of the animals we all love. Good for Them and those that support any or all of them!!


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## laker (Sep 12, 2008)

Doc E said:


> There's a guy at the Refuge that's just like MRC -- His screen name initials are T G
> 
> I never put anybody on Ignore -- I love reading stupid posts from secretive, sissy nobody's.
> 
> ...


:razz: I was thinking the same thing...;-)


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

M&K's Retrievers said:


> I'm going to see how this ignore deal works.





MRC Dreamin' said:


> A nahra guy showing his arse.......imagine that......:smile::smile::smile::smile: You Nahra folks are a trip. 30 clubs world wide........lmfao......


Guess my arse is already hangin' out and we've got 30 inches of snow outside so I can't train or hunt....

Dreamin'... there are folks here that know what it's like to take a dog to the top level in all three venues and they've had their say, in case you missed it.

Me... I'm just president of a NAHRA affiliated club and proud of it. We have members who have awesome dogs and we've worked with lots of newbies to take their basically untrained dogs and turned both handler and dog into hunting teams anyone would be proud to hunt with. That's one of my proudest accomplishments.

I also know some of the NAHRA board members pretty well and there is not a more dedicated group of people who are trying to raise this hunting retriever organization back up to national prominence. And, even though we're a small organization, that doesn't mean that those that participate don't know a thing or two about quality retrievers. So, when you blast NAHRA your blasting close personal friends of mine.

I've also taken a couple of dogs to the top level of NAHRA. My current 3 year old BLM is one pass shy of a GMHR, which you probably don't know is 15 passes. Folks who know understand that type of accomplishment.

So far you've done nothing but amuse us with your lack of understanding of dog games discussed on this forum and refused to give us any insight into your vast knowledge.

So, just in case you don't know.. folks on this forum who really know are the ones who are laughing our arses off...


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

MRC Dream said:


> Oh the drama.......





MRC Dream said:


> :razz:
> 
> A nahra guy showing his arse.......imagine that...... You Nahra folks are a trip. 30 clubs world wide........lmfao......


 
I hope all the hrc folk who are calling me the bad guy of this thread are taking note of your “Poster Boy” here.
This average hrc member of yours is exactly what I was talking about.
When you hrc folk tolerate, promote and encourage statements like from this dork weed it proves to me that his opinions are accepted by hrc as a HOLE and is representative of its attitude towards NAHRA. I see no high and mighty hrc folk calling this guy out. Nope, I am the bad guy.
I do hope to meet you someday you worthless pile of pestilence. Person to person. It would be very enjoyable.

.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

What organization you like is irrelevant. A dog doesn't give a big hoot in hades what test they are running. They are like the commercial on TV for the dog wanting bacon........BIRDS< BIRDS< BIRDS.........LOL. I have not had the pleasure of running a NAHRA test but would in a heartbeat as long as my mutts get some ducks, I have even run a dog event all the way up in NY with the Polock. Dogs had fun and so did I. Met some of the RTF members, saw a heck of a wreck and decided that us Southerners don't need to INVADE the north again.......LOL.


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## badbullgator (Dec 20, 2004)

So far in three pages I see nothing about WHY this should happen. I see people touting HRC, Ken bashing HRC and getting defensive over the troll not being chastised even though the vast majority of the post are chastising the troll, a number of post saying they think it would be great for the two to get together but not a single one with a valid reason as to why.
Here is a summary of the thread
NHRA guys….blah, blah, blah it is the best testing organization out there, HRC and AKC guys show up and cry…blah, blah, blah….HRC doesn’t shoot flyers….blah, blah blah…are test are the hardest….
HRC guys, our test are better…blah, blah, blah….we shoot poppers…..yes we do shoot flyers if we want too…blah, blah, blah……
Troll boy….you all suck only I know anything….blah, blah, blah

So let’s hear it. Why would this be a good merger? The NAHRA guys don’t seem to think much of HRC (Ken seems very hostile towards it), and the HRC guys don’t seem to think they have any need to change what is an already good program. Come on lets hear a list of why this would be good. Is it because NAHRA is “harder” and “most AKC HRC dogs couldn’t pass” ? Is it because HRC uses poppers at the line? What is it why would it be a good thing?

It has been mentioned that HRC has FAR more members and clubs. Like it or not that is a big issue. Many of us have never seen or have any clue what NAHRA is about because there are only (I think this is what was posted above forgive me if my numbers are wrong) 13 NAHRA clubs out there. That is a serious issue for NAHRA. I am not trying to knock NAHRA but if it is such a great program why are there so few clubs. You would think people would be beating down the door to start a new club if that were the case. Again I don’t know there are nonexistent in my area. 
I will say this about NAHRA. About 4-5 years ago I was interested in them. I found their website and tried to get information and tried to get on their web board to find out more about them. They were the most unfriendly bunch in that regard I have come across in the dog world. I was told I had to join first. Not a really big deal and I understand trying to keep troll’s off the board, but I have to think that most “businesses” relies that the first contact MANY people have with them these days is on a website. If your “business” is not inviting and welcoming to first time visitors they are in trouble. 
Ken don’t take that as a knock to your boys. It is only constructive criticism. Had I been welcomed by them at the time you would probably have another supporter on board. I don’t dislike them, or want to see them go away, but I really just don’t care about them either way, kind of the way I feel I was treated by them…….
I think the more the merrier. A lot of people like ALL the different venues out there. I just don’t see the need to combine any of them. HRC is HRC, NAHRA is NAHRA, AKC is AKC, SRS………


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

This thread is the exact reason I quit running hunt test and participating in retriever clubs. Nothing but politics and big egos. 

I will admit that participating taught me how to train a decent hunting dog and would recommend clubs to all beginners who don't have a mentor to teach them.


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## paul young (Jan 5, 2003)

Ken, no way is this guy "the average HRC member"......

and a few of the HRC members on here have defended the legitimacy of all the dog games, myself included.

just chalk this guy up for what he is and let's enjoy each others company.-Paul


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## laker (Sep 12, 2008)

Ya'll know MRC Dream is laughing his butt off right now..


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## road kill (Feb 15, 2009)

So....Elvis is curious......who won??


rk


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## Bill Watson (Jul 13, 2005)

When I was a member of NAHRA they had a self perpetuating board of directors (with Jack Jakoda as chief) and then my nearest club (in Atlanta) transfered to HRC) and I could no longer get to a NAHRA test in less than a day.

I don't know how NAHRA's board is selected, but every two years HRC elects new national officers with the Board of Directors (the presidents of each club being a member of the board) doing the voting. Those two items right there are two reasons that they will never merge. Both are fun to run, just can't spend all my "running money" on travel.

I would be supprised if the self appointed "Dip S---" is a member of HRC. His attitude just isn't "right". And Ken, for someone who cooks such fantastic tree sap you sure paint all us HRC folks with a broad brush. I'm suprised! As Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along"? Or did he make your paper way up there? Bill 2024 2253
________
WEB SHOWS


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## Mike Tome (Jul 22, 2004)

Bill,

NAHRA now has an elected BOD; similar process to HRC. That is one of the many changes being brought to the organization to avoid the pitfalls of the past.....


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## Troy B (May 25, 2005)

Ken Bora said:


> I hope all the hrc folk who are calling me the bad guy of this thread are taking note of your “Poster Boy” here.
> This average hrc member of yours is exactly what I was talking about.
> When you hrc folk tolerate, promote and encourage statements like from this dork weed it proves to me that his opinions are accepted by hrc as a HOLE and is representative of its attitude towards NAHRA. I see no high and mighty hrc folk calling this guy out. Nope, I am the bad guy.
> I do hope to meet you someday you worthless pile of pestilence. Person to person. It would be very enjoyable.
> ...


So some guy trolling behind a screen name gets under your skin and you want to hammer on an entire organization??? Yah, that makes sense.

Whom ever is hiding behind the screen name is hardly the average HRC member and the only thing he's a poster boy for is a classic "how to" of stirring it up and watching the meltdown.

How are his opinions accepted by HRC?? No one from HRC has agreed with or defended his position or statements let along promoted or encouraged. As for tolerated, we are all tolerating it unless a moderator/administrator gets rid of it.

I've only seen two people out of line in this thread and sadly your one of them. All you've done by getting your undies in a wad is let him get his jollies.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks for the cheap weekend entertainment. 

Ken, you may want to enroll in an anger management class.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

John Goode said:


> *Nahra+hrc*
> NAHRA and HRC hooking-up seems to me a win/win for both! Not trying to stir the pot just looking a a'why not" any comments??


This one sentence is what initiated the thread. There was no need for all this to get stirred up based upon John Goode's innocent little comment.

The original post shows no logic or supporting points. It shows nothing to indicate whether or not any of the principals at either organization are even interested in such a thing. It was simply a guy stating that he thought it could be cool.

When "hunt testing" first got going, there was one core group of folks that kicked it off. They quickly found their own nuances and formed more than one dog game. 

If it were sensible and desiriable for the two organizations to merge together, I believe it would have happened long ago. 

The "dog game consumer" has many choices and that's a good thing.

Frankly, I'm surprised that one guy who wants to taunt the Chevy fans with his "Ford is great, Chevy stinks" prodding is poking the sensitivities of a key one or two.

I've touched all of the dog games in one capacity or another and can tell you that they are all fun. We have choices...run what you like and be positive, be proactive, be happy.....OR QUIT and DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOU SMILE!


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

all organizations have good ones and bad ones Just like the human race. I look at the same with whatever bunch I am"playing" with. The gooduns rise to the top and the bad apples are ignored. If the want to play ..let's play.If they want to gripe, pee and moan ......move on and leave them standing. Dang snow is driving me nutz....LOL


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

david gibson said:


> can i stir the pot a little here? not like i ever have done so in the past.... ;-)
> 
> 
> BUT - as much as people tout NAHRA, it is non-existent here in southeast Texas and LA - and anywhere close to the area - whereas AKC and HRC are very strong. in fact, i would venture that the concentration of AKC and HRC clubs/tests is likely thicker here than anywhere else in the country.
> ...


I live in NW Montana, started in NAHRA in 1992, then moved to AKC hunt test and ran both venues until I switched to running field trials exclusively around 1997. There were enough NAHRA clubs between Montana, Idaho, Washington and Canada to keep me busy and title my dog. Up until last year I had never heard of HRC, it appread to be nonexistant within 1,000 miles of here. I think there is a new HRC club in Montana, which led John Goode to, naively it seems, suggest a win-win merger.

One thing I have noticed about internet forums is there is no tone of voice, so attempts at humor can be missed, but it sure seems to me MRC came across unnecessarily defensive and mean spirited. Like John says, it should be about the dogs, I don't see any reason to put down another venue just to make your prefered one look good.

John


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

MRC Dream said:


> Thanks for the cheap weekend entertainment.
> 
> Ken, you may want to enroll in an anger management class.


So you posted just to get people angry and entertain yourself? That's real mature.


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

On the HRC message board when we post, it is under our real name, we do not use screen names or handles or whatever you choose to call them. Consequently when you see an HRC member posting on RTF it is usually under their real name or something really close to it that we all recognize. I doubt that this troll is an HRC member but just somebody wanting to stir the pot. If he is a member he is not typical of most of the hundreds of HRC members that I know and am proud to be associated with and I would love to know his/her name. It is unfortunate that this individual has been able to elicit these types of responses from the RTF members for the sole purpose of as he stated his weekend entertainment. I hope that everybody will look back over this thread and recognize it for what it was and is and also look at their responses to an unfortunate and unnecessary gouging by a very small and compensating individual. If you don't feed a troll, they starve.


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## MRC Dream (Mar 4, 2009)

John Robinson said:


> So you posted just to get people angry and entertain yourself? That's real mature.


Basically.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

David McLendon said:


> *On the HRC message board when we post, it is under our real name, we do not use screen names or handles or whatever you choose to call them.* Consequently when you see an HRC member posting on RTF it is usually under their real name or something really close to it that we all recognize. I doubt that this troll is an HRC member but just somebody wanting to stir the pot. If he is a member he is not typical of most of the hundreds of HRC members that I know and am proud to be associated with and I would love to know his/her name. It is unfortunate that this individual has been able to elicit these types of responses from the RTF members for the sole purpose of as he stated his weekend entertainment. I hope that everybody will look back over this thread and recognize it for what it was and is and also look at their responses to an unfortunate and unnecessary gouging by a very small and compensating individual. If you don't feed a troll, they starve.


I also belong to a duckboat site that is a wonderful source of knowledge and advise on building your own duck boat. The guy that founded the site insisted from the begining, and made it a rule that you had to use your real name, and adding your location was prefered. His rationale was, and it proved to be correct, is people tend to be more polite when their identy is known. It is also easier to develope a bond when you know somebody by name. I'm a late comer here, so have no influence, but I always wonder if someone I am having dialog here under a screen name isn't somebody I know from the dog game.

Here's a pic of the duck boat I built from scratch with help from duckboats.net...


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## David Lo Buono (Apr 6, 2005)

Devlin Cackler Great Boat!


I built an AA broadbill 8 years ago


Anyway, I think this thread is proof positive that half the country is SNOWED IN.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

John Robinson said:


> I live in NW Montana, started in NAHRA in 1992, then moved to AKC hunt test and ran both venues until I switched to running field trials exclusively around 1997. There were enough NAHRA clubs between Montana, Idaho, Washington and Canada to keep me busy and title my dog. Up until last year I had never heard of HRC, it appread to be nonexistant within 1,000 miles of here. I think there is a new HRC club in Montana, which led John Goode to, naively it seems, suggest a win-win merger.
> 
> One thing I have noticed about internet forums is there is no tone of voice, so attempts at humor can be missed, but it sure seems to me MRC came across unnecessarily defensive and mean spirited. Like John says, it should be about the dogs, I don't see any reason to put down another venue just to make your prefered one look good.
> 
> John


i know absolutely nothing about NAHRA but still find it curious that it failed to get a toehold down here where we have so many retriever enthusiasts and clubs. i like HRC and AKC both, and from what i have read as more people describe NAHRA it would be a lot of fun as well - and an extra dent in my bank account... ;-)


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

Swampy- said:


> Devlin Cackler Great Boat!
> 
> 
> I built an AA broadbill 8 years ago
> ...


Very good eye, as it is a Cackler, but I added a foot to the length and four inches to the beam, so it is very close in size to the Devlin Snow Goose, but as you could tell, it has Cackler lines. And yes, it is snowing outside right now.

John


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

david gibson said:


> i know absolutely nothing about NAHRA but still find it curious that it failed to get a toehold down here where we have so many retriever enthusiasts and clubs. i like HRC and AKC both, and from what i have read as more people describe NAHRA it would be a lot of fun as well - and an extra dent in my bank account... ;-)


At one time it was strong there, just when the split happened, the "new" HRC had more following than NAHRA did in that area. AS mentioned the two are not strong in the same areas of the country for the most part.....


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## Clayton Evans (Jun 26, 2008)

When I was growing up My mom and dad taught me three thing that I have remembered
#1 the golden rule- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
#2 Treat others as you would like to be treated
#3 Love thy neighbor like thyself
I have never met someone I dislike be thier skin white black or any other color. 
I belong to a Nahra and AKC club and it is a lot of fun running their picnic tests but I mainly run AKC because I am a Chesapeake breeder and I want the titles on the AKC certified pedigree. I still show up and work all their licensed tests if I am able to do so.
As to Doc's statement that he has seen a lot of AKC people fail in Nahra. He should know it works both ways. Dogs will be dogs and the same for handlers. we all have good and bad days. This last statement is not a negative. comment towards towards Doc because the old -art and I 
all always ribbing each other. Him about my Chesapeakes and me with him being just being older than I. 
My true name is Clayton Evans and if Chris will change it thats okey by me.


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## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

And the answer is "NOT"
Anyway I hope my new Winger is not delayed by the wonderful snow-cuz we are going to "ROCK" with that tool.
a more educated John


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

Ken Bora said:


> *how about a live bird every now and again*
> Bunch of pompous hypocrites who all left NAHRA in droves because they were “real hunters” and then flocked to a program that puts more emphasis on what kind of trousers the human of the team has on instead of the condition of the bird that the dog of the team picks up.
> Has the sacred registry to track the very best hunting dogs yet will fail the most talented dog of the day if the human doesn’t put the popper firing gun safely in the orange metal holding rod. What that has to do with the soundness of the dog is lost on me.
> Brag on about how they can play all day even if they screw up the first series…. How is that good??? Oh right, so the test wise dogs can have fun.
> ...



Gotta tell ya man -if that doesn't encourage folks to join NAHRA nothing will.

Been called a lot of things in my day but "pompous hypocrite" ain't one of them. For the record though I most certainly did NOT leave in a drove (mine didn't even run at the time) - I left out of frustration, anger and disgust as did almost everyone else. 

I have many fond memories of good times with good friends but it is rants like this that make me wonder if my memory is bad.

Still looking for the keys to my drove regards

Bubba


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

John Goode said:


> And the answer is "NOT"
> Anyway I hope my new Winger is not delayed by the wonderful snow-cuz we are going to "ROCK" with that tool.
> a more educated John


Funny isn't it John?

And you thought it was safe to walk by the hornets' nest and just ask a simple question. 

Have fun with your new winger. What brand did you get and what electronics are you putting on it?


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

I think it important to state that on this forum each person posts for themself. They may speak for or against an organization if that's their opinion (free speech). I don't think that anyone on here speaks on behalf of any particular organization. I could be wrong. Although I'm sure that no one on here speaks on behalf of the North American Hunting Retriever Association. 





cde239 said:


> When I was growing up My mom and dad taught me three thing that I have remembered
> #1 the golden rule- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
> #2 Treat others as you would like to be treated
> #3 Love thy neighbor like thyself
> ...


Clayton, I always like seeing you at that live gun station (whether a test or a trial) cause I know there'll be a dead one coming back. Excellent post by the way. Harry


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

John Goode said:


> And the answer is "NOT"
> Anyway I hope my new Winger is not delayed by the wonderful snow-cuz we are going to "ROCK" with that tool.
> a more educated John


Hi John,
It seemed like a good idea at the time, I guess we were both enlightened on that one. Good luck with your training and new winger. Hope to see you in spring.

John


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## scott furbeck (May 28, 2008)

Major and I just got back from a hunting trip. He could care less what venue he was trained in. We only have a middle level title in our organiztion. Any shortcomings that my dogs exhibit are certainly more due to my lack of skill as a trainer and handler than where I play my games to pass the time until hunting season..... 6 more months to hunting season; play nice.


I run my dogs to get away from stress... maybe some of you guys take this too seriously.

Major wants to play with Elvis.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

Ken, I have generally enjoyed your posts in the past and I applaud your enthusiasm for the program you're involved with. I just ask one thing - please take a moment and take a deep breath. I hate seeing you get all worked up over some idiot that has figured out how to push some peoples buttons. Once you get your blood pressure back down a little, lets go on to more important things, like the dogs. You've always seemed to me to be a good guy, so don't let this guy get under your skin.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

cde239 said:


> As to Doc's statement that he has seen a lot of AKC people fail in Nahra. He should know it works both ways.


Hey ya old napbreeder of nappy haired dogs.

It wasn't me that said that. You must read as good as a Chessie.

Hope to see ya soon buddy.



.


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## John Goode (Mar 6, 2008)

Ya Chris a simple question-but perhaps some serious "cabin fever" out there!
Got me Zinger Winger on the way and Dogtra electrioncs and I hope my grandsons can help me set it up.


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Steve Peacock said:


> Ken, I have generally enjoyed your posts in the past and I applaud your enthusiasm for the program you're involved with. I just ask one thing - please take a moment and take a deep breath. I hate seeing you get all worked up over some idiot that has figured out how to push some peoples buttons. Once you get your blood pressure back down a little, lets go on to more important things, like the dogs. You've always seemed to me to be a good guy, so don't let this guy get under your skin.


good advice. apparently the troll is not aware of Kens expertise of explosives and lack of fear to use them.... ;-)


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

david gibson said:


> good advice. apparently the troll is not aware of Kens expertise of explosives and lack of fear to use them.... ;-)


Nor Ken's experience training Chessies with 2 x 4 hunks and video evidence to prove it.

Ken, just last night we were talking about Quaker Oats instant maple and brown sugar oatmeal. We do not go that route at my house. We use Bora's syrup and real brown sugar!

Chris


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

I must say, I think reading this thread actually made me dumb(er). 

What a crock for all concerned.

CS (who runs as many types of games he can)


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

You know, I was just thinking that this sounds like a lot of the "debate that goes on anytime someone mentions that the INTERNATIONAL Chiropractic Association and the AMERICAN Chiropractic Association should merge. While on the surface it would seem to make sense, there are too many hurt feelings from days gone past, and everyone would give and take as long as it is the other side giving. In truth more choice is probably better.

Hey Doc, thinking about that got yor BP back up ;-)


We also have to post with our real names on the NAHRA forum, and guys like MRC D are a big reason why....

So can we all agree that any venue's top dogs are pretty darn good and any of us would hunt with any of them regardless of what set of letters they have?


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## Juli H (Aug 27, 2007)

limiman12 said:


> So can we all agree that any venue's top dogs are pretty darn good and any of us would hunt with any of them regardless of what set of letters they have?


exactly.... any dog that is a consistent finisher in any venue, is a 'darn good dog'. 

Juli


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

limiman12 said:


> You know, I was just thinking that this sounds like a lot of the "debate that goes on anytime someone mentions that the INTERNATIONAL Chiropractic Association and the AMERICAN Chiropractic Association should merge. While on the surface it would seem to make sense, there are too many hurt feelings from days gone past, and everyone would give and take as long as it is the other side giving. In truth more choice is probably better.
> 
> Hey Doc, thinking about that got yor BP back up ;-)
> 
> ...



Please note my only post to this thread back on page 6 or 7


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## cakaiser (Jul 12, 2007)

Nahra, HRC, AKC, actual dogs would pooh pooh an argument like this....;-)
THEY DON'T CARE, and, if it's all about the dogs, why should we?? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ythp1PmYF8


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 23, 2004)

Everyone can pick their favorite for our guest.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm

Eric


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

I'll never get the time back that I've just wasted reading this thread, I feel like most of you normally level-headed people feel this way too. Quit responding to the troll and he'll get bored and go away. Thats how simple-minded people work, they have very short attention spans.

Going to to do a FF session, that'll be more fun than reading this waste of bandwidth.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

cakaiser said:


> THEY DON'T CARE, and, if it's all about the dogs, why should we??


It's our nature.

People who contribute invest their resources--time, effort, energy, emotion, money, etc.--trying to build something good. Contributions tend to be specific, not general, perhaps under the auspices of a particular organization. If you're trying to build and improve what an organization can provide participants, you care about its condition, progress, and reputation.

Words do cause damage. They affect people's decisions whether to join, participate, or check out an organization. It's dishonest to take shots then deny responsibility.

NAHRA in particular is made up of the individuals who are trying to build it back up. Unlike UKC and AKC, they don't have the weight of a big registry behind them. They're invested; it's personal; they care. It's a good thing.

Amy Dahl


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## limiman12 (Oct 13, 2007)

afdahl said:


> It's our nature.
> .......
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly! 



(post too short)


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## Micah Duffy (Jan 21, 2010)

cakaiser said:


> Nahra, HRC, AKC, actual dogs would pooh pooh an argument like this....;-)
> THEY DON'T CARE, and, if it's all about the dogs, why should we??
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ythp1PmYF8 [/QUOTE
> ...


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

Cat Squirrel said:


> *I must say, I think reading this thread actually made me dumb(er). *
> 
> *What a crock for all concerned.*
> 
> CS (who runs as many types of games he can)


My thoughts exactly....Wow :roll:


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## david gibson (Nov 5, 2008)

Cat Squirrel said:


> I must say, I think reading this thread actually made me dumb(er).
> 
> What a crock for all concerned.
> 
> CS (who runs as many types of games he can)


i agree - but what i did see was some real fire and enthusiasm on Ken Bora's part for his chosen venue. gotta have a certain amount of respect for that. as stated before i know very little about NAHRA but now hold a more healthy respect for the group. so i at least came out of this thread a bit less dumber myself.. ;-)

as for gooser - well, all bets are off. can _anything_ make him smarter?? ;-)


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## Judy Chute (May 9, 2005)

Chris Atkinson said:


> ..............
> Ken, just last night we were talking about Quaker Oats instant maple and brown sugar oatmeal. We do not go that route at my house. We use Bora's syrup and real brown sugar!
> Chris


Yum....looking forward to breakfast tomorrow AM. We have Bora's product  ..honest to goodness real brown sugar...and a wonderful hot cereal from Fiddler's Green Farm..Belfast, Maine Organic..www.fiddlersgreenfarm.com Oat Bran & Brown Ricer hot cereal is so good. 

(then... there is always Bisquick Shake and Pour..you know, in the yellow plastic container??? :roll

one last edit: Ken always stands up for what he believes in... We liked NAHRA..our retrievers liked the game...


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

limiman12 said:


> Case in point, and I hope I am not stepping on any toes, but the MINNESOTA MASTER is a test/trial that is held in Minnesota that invites dogs from the different venues to come play and find out who is top dog in the state when it comes to hunting retrievers.....
> 
> It was set up so that ANYTHING allowed in any venue was at the judges disposal. After the first two years they had to exclude the steady to flushupland quarter, because only the NAHRA dogs did it. The Next year they had to exclude the trail because it eliminated so many non NAHRA dogs.....
> 
> -II!


Good thing I am use to having stuff dropped on my toes. For the record and speaking as an officer of the GMHTA, sponser of the Minnesota Master, worker at the first MN M, chair of the 3rd and soon to be 4th, I can speak with some degree of knowledge that:

a. All dogs in the 1st MN M that made it to the upland test and trail did fine and all but 1 went to the final water series. This included an IWS that had never been in a upland hunt ans a FT dog.
b. In the second year, condiditons did not allow for an upland test and 1 of the judges was a very accomplished NAHRA member, so if it was possible, it would have ben done.
c. In year 3, see above as to the upland, but a second series of 3 stations calling ducks and a wipe out bird at 20 yards certainly tested dogs trained in all venues. And FYI, the judges included AKC HT/FT, HRC, AKC HT/NAHRA 

The point of including aspects of all "live bird games" is to show that a well trained retriever. (note WELL TRAINED) can handle anything tossed at it and have fun doing it regardless of breed or club affiliation. Heck, a chessie took top honors last year so anything is possible.

Each game has it's stupid parts and you deal with them or find something else that suits you. The GMHTA is made up of RETRIEVER Clubs from Minnesota, Iowa,N.Dakota and Wisconsin. 11 AKC clubs, 1 NAHRA and just this year we welcome Marsh and Meadow HRC as a member club. All of us work together to promote and support dog games. There is room for everyone.


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## duk4me (Feb 20, 2008)

Bubba said:


> Gotta tell ya man -if that doesn't encourage folks to join NAHRA nothing will.
> 
> Been called a lot of things in my day but "pompous hypocrite" ain't one of them. For the record though I most certainly did NOT leave in a drove (mine didn't even run at the time) - I left out of frustration, anger and disgust as did almost everyone else.
> 
> ...


pompous hypocrite, pompouse hypocrite, pompouse hypocrite. Now quit sayin u aint never been called a pompouse hypocrite.


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## Vicki Worthington (Jul 9, 2004)

I lived through the "birth" of NAHRA. It was a splinter from the old James River Retriever Club. I lived in the Richmond, VA area at the time & let me tell you, the schism between the FT community and the newly-minted NAHRA community was the next step before violent! It all survived. The hunt test venues have evolved into whatever they currently represent & I'm sure they will change more before they are finished. FTs are in the same boat. Hunt tests, in all their many formats, serve a needed venue for many, many people to experience the wonderful things our retrievers can be taught to accomplish. I have my own preferences--they are for competitive FTs. You may LOVE HRC. Ken obviously loves NAHRA. Lopsided, incomplete comparisons of one sport to another does no one any good. 

As far as what your credentials lend to the argument, let me just say this: Your credentials will support whether your position is defensable or just pot-stirring for the sake of pot-stirring. Everyone is truly entitled to an opinion, but opinions based upon creditable experience are much more effective, believable, and carry a lot more weight than the uninformed opinion.

Personally, I think that everyone should include their real, full name and post their location before posting anything...especially controversial and contentious opinion that appears to call into question others beliefs, experience, and, yes, opinions.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Vicki and I have different preferred games, but share some loves ;-). Nell was littermate to AFC Esprit Far Fetched and Zeke is out of her "Genie." 

I've met lots of great people in all the retriever games and am sorry that the bitterness it all started with persists in its new forms. I don't see how it helps any of us.


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## stonybrook (Nov 18, 2005)

Golddogs said:


> b. In the second year, condiditons did not allow for an upland test and 1 of the judges was a very accomplished NAHRA member, so if it was possible, it would have been done.


Actually, as the 1st series, we did have an upland hunt followed by a box launchered mallard that was shot by 2 of the judges. We only had 8 entries that year and thus we told the handlers that should their dog break (which a number did) we'd carry them along to play through the day. We did tell them that if at the end of the day all things were equal except for the upland flush, we'd take into consideration how the dog did on the flush as the deciding factor.

I can recall the top placements but can't recall right now how they each did on the upland portion.

Regardless, all dog games can be enjoyable and all are good for the balanced dog.

Travis

AKC and NAHRA judge
AKC and NAHRA handler
(haven't yet had the pleasure to give HRC a go but will at some point).


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

stonybrook said:


> Actually, as the 1st series, we did have an upland hunt followed by a box launchered mallard that was shot by 2 of the judges. .


 My bad. I swear I was told they did not run a upland because of thecover. I stand corrected and look forward to a fun event this year.

Will have cover on the grounds for an upland hunt Regards


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## jgrammer (Jun 23, 2008)

Been away while this thread evolved. All I can say is, so glad I was not there for the ugly split. It allows me to play in whatever game I want and not have the memories of the split. I play in NAHRA (and love it) and AKC (yes, the breeders like those titles) and now that we have a local HRC club, we just may be there also. Where we live, there is room for all 3 clubs and usually, there are no conflicting dates. It gives the dogs a chance to work most weekends and it does not get much better than that. Time to bury the hatchets and go have fun. If you haven't tried NAHRA in awhile, give it a try, I am sure you will enjoy. Play all the games, the dogs will love it and they don't care who is sanctioning it!


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## Bubba (Jan 3, 2003)

AlllllllllllllRighty then. Now that we have this turd kicked - let's all group hug and get back something we can all agree on- dissing the fat show dawgs. Speaking of which the Fatadors are waddling around the ring at Westminister even as we speak.

So Ken if I get the drove running want me to spin through and we can make a roadie down to the show?

Master Baiter regards

Bubba


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## Bill Davis (Sep 15, 2003)

MRC Dream you still a member of West Mississppi HRC?


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

> MRC Dream you still a member of West Mississippi HRC?


Is the onion getting peeled?  HPW


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Don't feed the trolls....


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