# Sun Valley Silver labs



## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

Looking for information from anyone who has bought a dog or know of any dogs from this kennel. If you have any info that you feel inappropriate for the forum please PM me.

I have a friend who's son bought a Sun Valley male silver about 2 years ago and he can no longer keep the dog due to moving and unforeseen life changes and she asked if I would be interested in the dog .I contacted the breeders and they didnt have much to offer as far as info on him or his litter mates. Just looking to see if anyone has any info to pass along,Thanks.


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## WREDrake (Aug 3, 2010)

There are three colors of Labrador Retrievers: Black, Yellow, and Chocolate. There are no other pure breed colors. That in itself says that the breeding was inappropriate.


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## Christine Maddox (Mar 9, 2009)

AKC requires the owner of the dam to keep records of each litter. The breeder should know the AKC#'s and the owners of each pup that was produced from that breeding. If the breeder does not have any records...............it is a strong indication to steer clear of them.


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## Rick_C (Dec 12, 2007)

WREDrake said:


> There are three colors of Labrador Retrievers: Black, Yellow, and Chocolate. There are no other pure breed colors. That in itself says that the breeding was inappropriate.


But doesn't change the fact said dog exists. Or helps the OP with the information he's requesting.


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## Nicole (Jul 8, 2007)

Information that the OP is requesting doesn't exist... people who choose to breed colors that don't exist in our breed are doing so for money, they're not proving their breeding stock in the field or making breeding decisions to do anything but make sure they get that color. The dog IS here, that's obvious, but the friend should alter (if not already) and place it as a pet. If they need help with that, contact a rescue.


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## Billie (Sep 19, 2004)

We dont know that he isnt already altered. If you are willing to take on the dog, its no different than a rescue ,and you'd be doing your friend, and the dog a favor. I wouldnt expect much from the breeders', as already stated, since there is high likeliehood that things are not on the up and up. 
Good luck to the dog,and you if you decide to take him on.


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## Paul Brown (Sep 1, 2011)

According to their web page, they are a hobby breeder. I found these testimonials:

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/breeders-kentucky/sun-valley-silver-labrador-retrievers.html

Good luck


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## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

One thing I noticed is that the papers are limited, as in no breeding rights, kennel owners informed me that got $424 dollars the would release breeding rights. I am going to recommend that she have the dog fixed ,I think I will see if I can get him going on some basic obedience then offer him for adoption.
He is colored like a wiemeriner but built like an English lab .weighing over 100 lbs I'm guessing
On a side note when I asked for OFA or EIC info breeder said she has her vet look at her breeding dogs and they are fine so no need to get official OFA results ??
Lots of red flags so far! 


WRE drake- isn't this how yellows and chocolate came to be? by repeat breeding of odd colored black labs,but with color as the main characteristic in mind.

Paul, I to found that info ,I didnt know that there where silver factored dogs


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## blackasmollases (Mar 26, 2012)

Heck I ain't made anyone on hear like me yet why stop know
http://www.silverlabs.com/controversy.htm

Ain't no different than when chocos. started popping out of the woodwork

Someday I hope to own a silver fox red factored pointing lab???????


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

There are a lot of red flags, but luckily the dog is already two, evaluate its confirmation, gait, drive, birdiness, train ability and the dog as a whole, I hate silver lab breeders and silver labs, but I have seen one silver lab that actually was a really nice lab for any color. It was just in for obedience but it could mark really well and was really birdy. It won't hurt to evaluate the dog it will only cost your time.


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## dmccarty (Jul 9, 2004)

Isn't it against AKC regulations to charge one price for the dog, and a higher price for the papers? My advice is to enjoy the dog, without his papers, and stay far away from any dealings with that breeder. That's not a hobby breeder, it's a backyard breeder.


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## mwk56 (May 12, 2009)

aKC doesn't have anything to do with how or for what price dogs are sold.


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## shawninthesticks (Jun 13, 2010)

I would say this is the first live bird or probably bird this dog has ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI-B0bYc_Dk


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

For more information on what are referred to as "silver Labs" or as "charcoal Labs" or any other than the traditional colors of black, yellow and chocolate, go to www.thelabradorclub.com and read the comments by Fran Smith, DVM. 

Glenda Brown


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## Bryan Manning (May 22, 2005)

Glenda could you post a link to the article on lrc website. I couldn't find it. Thanks Bryan


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

Glenda Brown said:


> For more information on what are referred to as "silver Labs" or as "charcoal Labs" or any other than the traditional colors of black, yellow and chocolate, go to www.thelabradorclub.com and read the comments by Fran Smith, DVM.
> 
> Glenda Brown


Question, So even if the dog has papers, they would not be allowed at a test or trial. Would the judges look at them differently.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

The dog looks like it might be slightly interested in birds. The dog also looks like it is put together OK, but hard to tell on the video. The dog doesn't seem to know what color he is though.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Truth -
if a dog has an AKC reg. number it may run.
unless it has been written up for something.
a test or trial judge will not judge any dog
by the color of it's coat, but the quality of it's work.


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## chubasco (Feb 10, 2012)

truthseeker said:


> Question, So even if the dog has papers, they would not be allowed at a test or trial. Would the judges look at them differently.


A Silver Lab with AKC papers would be able to compete in AKC events, Tests, Trials, Obedience, Rally but if entered in Breed they would be disqualified and asked to leave the ring. Silver is a disqualification. I know of a Silver that does compete and do well in Obedience.


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## Nicole (Jul 8, 2007)

Kelly Greenwood said:


> The dog also looks like it is put together OK


According to what??


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## truthseeker (Feb 2, 2012)

That's really funny, that's the same thing I saw.


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## Susan (Jun 10, 2003)

To find article Glenda referenced in her post: go to www.thelabradorclub.com, click on breeders, then designer dogs, then on silver labs.


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## Glenda Brown (Jun 23, 2003)

*Silver Labs*

Sorry not to reply sooner, but a few of us went out to dinner to celebrate the past weekend.

As stated, you can go to www.thelabradorclub.com and you will also see it on the front page under "Another Designer Dog"---- upper left hand corner not far under the heading. If you have any problem, contact me and I can send you a copy. 

Glenda


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## Bryan Manning (May 22, 2005)

Thanks found it!


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Shawn White said:


> Lots of red flags so far!


I'm suspect of any real sincerity. HPW


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## Jim Danis (Aug 15, 2008)

There is a silver lab who earned his MH title and qualified for this years Master National. His name is Carolina's Silver Smoke MH. He does better than average work. He's well put together and except for being silverish in color looks and acts like any other lab.


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## Spartazoo (Sep 28, 2011)

Meanest, nastiest dog I have ever been around was a "silver" lab owned by a very rich person. When we trained with it, I put my kid in the car and the owner ended up having to put the dog away. I have no idea if it had anything to do with color but that thing was evil.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

My sister got a silver Lab pup this summer (((((cringing))))) to admit she's related! LOL. In her defense, she's got an 11 y.o. Lab/weim rescue that she adores, and so she got her pup specifically because I'd told her they had weimeraner in them. He's a nice pup, though she won't tell me what she paid for him! Her dogs are strictly spoiled couch potatoes, and he does have a nice disposition.

What I told her and my standard explanation when people ask me (which I get a lot, because I have several ash colored Chesapeakes) is that the silver color comes from a recessive dilution gene, that may or may not have been in the breed since it is clearly in some of the Lab ancestors, including Chesapeakes. But it was just as clearly something Lab breeders selected away from, since it is not desireable nor accepted by the parent club. Not just because silver Lab breeders are breeding for a single (and recessive) trait, breeding for this color in Labs is irresponsible and a disservice to this fine breed in the same way intentionally breeding for a curly tail or some other non-Lab trait would be.

This is my sister's pup Cooper. He's actually pretty cute.


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## Illinois Bob (Feb 3, 2007)

Julie R. said:


> ..... breeding for this color in Labs is irresponsible and a disservice to this fine breed in the same way intentionally breeding for a curly tail or some other non-Lab trait would be.


There ya go again. Picking on my dogs curly tail.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

Illinois Bob said:


> There ya go again. Picking on my dogs curly tail.


Not picking on her Bob  Now, if you started a breeding program and bred her to a curly tailed stud and marketing the latest designer curly-tailed Labs, then I might have to pick on you. Love them all, curly tails and silver coats and airplane ears and no whiskers and all.


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## Kelly Greenwood (Dec 18, 2008)

Nicole said:


> According to what??


OK you didn't include even the whole sentence with my quote, "the dog looks like it is put together OK, BUT IT IS REALLY HARD TO TELL IN THE VIDEO" 

the dog apears to have a nice flat topline, apears to have nice rear angulation, appears to have a long enough humerus that the elbow is at the bottom of the chest, appears not to be cow hocked or pigeon toed, tail set looks like it might be a bit low but tail carraige looks ok,length of tail might be long (it should reach the hock but no farther), Body looks long but may be an optical illusion due to crouching, head is a bit narrow and not as blocky as I would prefer but is probably more functional than the current Rotty heads lab breeders seem to be striving for, Ear set looks a bit low but hard to tell, ears look way to long and floppy but need to lay ear over to the inside corner of the eye to tell, really hard to tell reach and drive in a dog that is just bouncing around. If dog is 100lbs he is clearly outside the breed standard on weight like most male show dogs are. Hard to tell tuck up, looks like a otter type tail but coat looks like it might be thin?? really hard to tell. Hard to tell on campactness of toes and feet with the dog bouncing like that. The neck actually looks a bit long but I would rather have a neck too long than too short, same with nose. Can't tell if it has an over or under bite, can't tell if he has all his teeth, He does appear to be able to "work a field all day"per breed standard. I am not sure if he has enough front chest (keel? bow?). Of course I am looking at it from a funtional stand point, so my priorities are reach, drive, angulation, toe in/out, length of humerus, flat topline, all those things that relate to how well the dog can actually move and function.

Of course I am one of those people that actually agree with LRC Inc. on requiring that dogs prove themselves in the field before they can become a CH, wish AKC would go along with them on that. I also would love to see every dog weighed before it goes into a breed ring too. Might be nice if a lab was required to have a CC before it could be a FC also. Might get more of the Conformation and Field people to breed for more than 1 thing but to consider the breed as a whole.


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## Dennis campbell (Sep 6, 2017)

Well, I read where we are supposed to be positive and uplifting of each other in this forum. Seems like most of you failed? So let's begin. Regardless of your OPINION, silver labs are recognized as pure bred by AKAC.Secondly, you would have to be pretty impressed with yourself to look at a pic or video and know how many birds a dog has seen. You need some even bigger telepathic power to know about a breeder you have never dealt with. So, that is called arrogance on your part. Lastly, if the owner submitted paperwork, your dog can be tracked by Ac and you can get a lineage. But, why on earth would you get on here disparaging a breeder when your friends son obviously didn't keep up with the dogs papers? The breeder gives you paperwork. You name the dog. How does a breeder know how to track lineage if you don't have proper info? They don't. So shame on you all. If you had no real knowledge or advice, you should staid away from commenting and trying to hurt a breeder you don't know.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Dennis campbell said:


> Well, I read where we are supposed to be positive and uplifting of each other in this forum. Seems like most of you failed? So let's begin. Regardless of your OPINION, silver labs are recognized as pure bred by AKAC.Secondly, you would have to be pretty impressed with yourself to look at a pic or video and know how many birds a dog has seen. You need some even bigger telepathic power to know about a breeder you have never dealt with. So, that is called arrogance on your part. Lastly, if the owner submitted paperwork, your dog can be tracked by Ac and you can get a lineage. But, why on earth would you get on here disparaging a breeder when your friends son obviously didn't keep up with the dogs papers? The breeder gives you paperwork. You name the dog. How does a breeder know how to track lineage if you don't have proper info? They don't. So shame on you all. If you had no real knowledge or advice, you should staid away from commenting and trying to hurt a breeder you don't know.




You must breed silver labs.


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Trolling awfully hard this morning. Revive a 5 year old thread with your first post. Should I grab the popcorn now?


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## red devil (Jan 4, 2003)

Peter Balzer said:


> Trolling awfully hard this morning. Revive a 5 year old thread with your first post. Should I grab the popcorn now?


A quick google search finds Dennis Campbell = Sun Valley Silver Labs

https://www.facebook.com/Sun-Valley-Silver-Labs-for-Sale-2022248801333816/

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this ...you'll all want one now


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

Dennis campbell said:


> Well, I read where we are supposed to be positive and uplifting of each other in this forum..


Umm I don't remember reading nor signing this agreement when I signed up, I do remember a be the peanut speech; but seems most posters just tell you How it is and Don't care, If you don't like it. . (aka. TRUTH) 

Also realistically this is a very minor thread of someone asking for info. from 5yrs. ago very civil, humdrum and uninteresting; if one wants to see scandalous threads about sliver labs on here the search function will populate quickly.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

red devil said:


> A quick google search finds Dennis Campbell = Sun Valley Silver Labs
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Sun-Valley-Silver-Labs-for-Sale-2022248801333816/
> 
> ...


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

red devil said:


> A quick google search finds Dennis Campbell = Sun Valley Silver Labs


Well, at least he ain't "_*Otis*_ Campbell = Mayberry Jail Silver Labs." Though if he were, he could pay a visit to the nearby "AKAC" on a weekend furlough and plead his case for cloud cuckooland clemency on "gray matters" between the ears...






MG


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## Boykin (Oct 21, 2015)

Dennis campbell said:


> Well, I read where we are supposed to be positive and uplifting of each other in this forum. Seems like most of you failed? So let's begin. Regardless of your OPINION, silver labs are recognized as pure bred by AKAC.Secondly, you would have to be pretty impressed with yourself to look at a pic or video and know how many birds a dog has seen. You need some even bigger telepathic power to know about a breeder you have never dealt with. So, that is called arrogance on your part. Lastly, if the owner submitted paperwork, your dog can be tracked by Ac and you can get a lineage. But, why on earth would you get on here disparaging a breeder when your friends son obviously didn't keep up with the dogs papers? The breeder gives you paperwork. You name the dog. How does a breeder know how to track lineage if you don't have proper info? They don't. So shame on you all. If you had no real knowledge or advice, you should staid away from commenting and trying to hurt a breeder you don't know.


I have delt with you Dennis, remember? You sold me that silver unicorn going on five years ago. You stopped answering my phone calls and never sent the papers now he cant be registered with the AKAC. Never get your unicorns from anywhere that says they with mail you the papers, the best place is El Ranco Unicorno. 

First off, silver labs are not recognized as a pure bred, there recognized as chocolate. Secondly its plain to an advanced trainer what the experience of a given dog is. I do have telepathic powers, you do as well, that's why we can both see the unicorns. As for the papers, I cant comment but, if you didn't ever get him his, like me, its arrogance on your part.

Waiting to register my unicorn regards-
Boykin


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Boykin said:


> I have delt with you Dennis, remember? You sold me that silver unicorn going on five years ago. You stopped answering my phone calls and never sent the papers now he cant be registered with the AKAC. Never get your unicorns from anywhere that says they with mail you the papers, the best place is El Ranco Unicorno.
> 
> First off, silver labs are not recognized as a pure bred, there recognized as chocolate. Secondly its plain to an advanced trainer what the experience of a given dog is. I do have telepathic powers, you do as well, that's why we can both see the unicorns. As for the papers, I cant comment but, if you didn't ever get him his, like me, its arrogance on your part.
> 
> ...






You bought a sliver Lab?:BIG::monkey: Sorry couldn't resist, just poking fun at ya.


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

Dennis campbell said:


> Well, I read where we are supposed to be positive and uplifting of each other in this forum. Seems like most of you failed? So let's begin. Regardless of your OPINION, silver labs are recognized as pure bred by AKAC.Secondly, you would have to be pretty impressed with yourself to look at a pic or video and know how many birds a dog has seen. You need some even bigger telepathic power to know about a breeder you have never dealt with. So, that is called arrogance on your part. Lastly, if the owner submitted paperwork, your dog can be tracked by Ac and you can get a lineage. But, why on earth would you get on here disparaging a breeder when your friends son obviously didn't keep up with the dogs papers? The breeder gives you paperwork. You name the dog. How does a breeder know how to track lineage if you don't have proper info? They don't. So shame on you all. If you had no real knowledge or advice, you should staid away from commenting and trying to hurt a breeder you don't know.


Dennis, you are nothing but a charlatan looking to cash in on the ignorance of others. As you very well know, silver "labs" are not recognized as pure bred by THE AUTHORITY, the Labrador Retriever Club of America. And the fact that you can register those mutts that you so recklessly bred with the AKC by fraudulently registering them as chocolate does not change the fact that you and your so called breed are frauds. You and unethical breeders like you have done a great disservice to the most loved breed in America and I could not possibly hold your ilk in more contempt.


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## cmccallum (Jan 4, 2017)

I jus cantt get pas the stelling errers... HAHAHAHAHA


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

HuntinDawg said:


> Dennis, you are nothing but a charlatan looking to cash in on the ignorance of others. As you very well know, silver "labs" are not recognized as pure bred by THE AUTHORITY, the Labrador Retriever Club of America. And the fact that you can register those mutts that you so recklessly bred with the AKC by fraudulently registering them as chocolate does not change the fact that you and your so called breed are frauds. You and unethical breeders like you have done a great disservice to the most loved breed in America and I could not possibly hold your ilk in more contempt.


Come on, don't be shy. Tell us how you really feel.😀


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

John Robinson said:


> Come on, don't be shy. Tell us how you really feel.&#55357;&#56832;


I never want to be unclear.

I hope you are doing well my friend.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

HuntinDawg said:


> I never want to be unclear.
> 
> I hope you are doing well my friend.


Loud and clear. I'm doing great except for the unholy smoke out here. You?


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## HuntinDawg (Jul 2, 2006)

John Robinson said:


> Loud and clear. I'm doing great except for the unholy smoke out here. You?


Reluctant to reply because I didn't want to bump this thread again. I'm doing OK. My dad's Alzheimer's keeps me occupied. We were lucky that we were not inconvenienced by Irma any more than we were and suffered no damage. My 13 year old daughter will be running our new dog in her first hunt test (my daughter's first, not my dog's) this weekend, so that'll be pretty cool.


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## Scott Krueger (Jan 25, 2008)

Dennis campbell said:


> Well, I read where we are supposed to be positive and uplifting of each other in this forum. Seems like most of you failed? So let's begin. Regardless of your OPINION, silver labs are recognized as pure bred by AKAC.Secondly, you would have to be pretty impressed with yourself to look at a pic or video and know how many birds a dog has seen. You need some even bigger telepathic power to know about a breeder you have never dealt with. So, that is called arrogance on your part. Lastly, if the owner submitted paperwork, your dog can be tracked by Ac and you can get a lineage. But, why on earth would you get on here disparaging a breeder when your friends son obviously didn't keep up with the dogs papers? The breeder gives you paperwork. You name the dog. How does a breeder know how to track lineage if you don't have proper info? They don't. So shame on you all. If you had no real knowledge or advice, you should staid away from commenting and trying to hurt a breeder you don't know.



JMO, but get this clown outta here.....definitely a silver breeder or just got outta mom's basement.....


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Saw a silver 'thing' in a truck parked next to me the other day. Had some pretty bad coat issues, as many do..... I almost took a photo with my phone, but didn't want someone to think I was casing the vehicle. LOL - I have that sneaky look about me..hahahahaha


They need a different breed name.... Dilute Retrievers or something... (They can be a type of retriever, just not a labrador retriever...)


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## Zach Fisher (Jan 16, 2015)

But they need to piggyback on the value of the Labrador name. That's why I have such an issue with them.


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## WilliamMStone (Sep 5, 2017)

It would be really grateful if you are going to rescue the dog from your friend. As the dog will be happy to get a home who is loving the dog because of the breed and their breed is all that matters to them. For me, dogs are the most loyal companion one can ever get, no matter what age does he is in. All I want to say is, All the best to you and the dog if you have decided that you will be taking him up.


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## SLAB (Sep 28, 2009)

They are gaining ground and popularity, they don't all look bad and have bad coats only some of them do.... you can't broadbrush them all.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

SLAB said:


> [iurl="http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66761&stc=1&d=1516386062"]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't necessarily think ALL look bad and I'm sure many are healthy. The problem I have is that they aren't purebred and are being marketed as such. 

The fact is a color doesn't just show up 50+ years after the breed standard is set and only in one specific location. 

Call them something else...


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

Bryan Parks said:


> The fact is a color doesn't just show up 50+ years after the breed standard is set and only in one specific location. Call them something else...




Agreed. Do like the Boykin Spaniel folks did and start a new breed. Call it the Kellogg Retriever. Boykins typically sell for more than labs due to limited supply, so maybe the Kellogg Retriever would too. That should make the money hungry breeders happy


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## _cledus_ (Jan 17, 2018)

Labraweiners.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

SLAB said:


> View attachment 66761
> They are gaining ground and popularity, they don't all look bad and have bad coats only some of them do.... you can't broadbrush them all.
> View attachment 66769


Please post a picture of one that doesn't "look bad". HPW


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## Leddyman (Nov 27, 2007)

SLAB said:


> View attachment 66761
> They are gaining ground and popularity, they don't all look bad and have bad coats only some of them do.... you can't broadbrush them all.
> View attachment 66769


Nice Wiemeraners


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

I don't have a dog in this hunt, since I have Chesapeakes (and they do have that dilute gene) but let me just say this: the ash color has become very unpopular due to the silver mutt fraud being foisted off on unsuspecting morons that think they're getting a purebred Lab. Even though the earliest written description of Chesapeakes contains a description of the color, and it has been around as long as the breed has. I have a question for all of you silver mutt breeders, two actually. #1. Are you members of the LRC? (insert rolling on the floor and sarcasm icons here) and #2. Why do you think it's OK to introduce a trait into a breed where it was bred out (if it ever existed) specifically because it was undesireable? Because you like it? Because it makes money? Because you're an ass?


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Julie R. said:


> I don't have a dog in this hunt, since I have Chesapeakes (and they do have that dilute gene) but let me just say this: the ash color has become very unpopular due to the silver mutt fraud being foisted off on unsuspecting morons that think they're getting a purebred Lab. Even though the earliest written description of Chesapeakes contains a description of the color, and it has been around as long as the breed has. I have a question for all of you silver mutt breeders, two actually. #1. Are you members of the LRC? (insert rolling on the floor and sarcasm icons here) and #2. Why do you think it's OK to introduce a trait into a breed where it was bred out (if it ever existed) specifically because it was undesireable? Because you like it? Because it makes money? Because you're an ass?


Thank you, Juli


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Since Silver Labs are designer dogs (mutts) why are we calling them Labs?
"Leimaraner" would be more descriptive and it has a nice trendy sound.


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## caryalsobrook (Mar 22, 2010)

Are breeders here considering that both sires and dams be DNA tested guaranteeing that no dilute gene be present? I think that in the future I will require that either the pup or the parents be tested, before I purchase a pup.


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

caryalsobrook said:


> Are breeders here considering that both sires and dams be DNA tested guaranteeing that no dilute gene be present? I think that in the future I will require that either the pup or the parents be tested, before I purchase a pup.


Yes Cary, many are already requiring dilute free testing and proof before breeding.


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## caryalsobrook (Mar 22, 2010)

bamajeff said:


> Yes Cary, many are already requiring dilute free testing and proof before breeding.


Great to hear. I also think it would be beneficial if breeders advertised in capital letters, NO DILUTE GENE PRESENT!!


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

caryalsobrook said:


> Great to hear. I also think it would be beneficial if breeders advertised in capital letters, NO DILUTE GENE PRESENT!!


A large portion are doing that as well.


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## caryalsobrook (Mar 22, 2010)

bamajeff said:


> A large portion are doing that as well.


That makes it much easier to say that we consider them as cross breeds and do not believe they are Labs, and intend to do all possible to prevent them from destroying the breed. Also we should make it clear that this affects black and yellow labs. WE have no intention to own, sell, breed or will participate in their propagation.


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## pat addis (Feb 3, 2008)

as long as there is so much money in silvers they will still breed them I don't know a lot about genetics but I have seen silvers being sold as silver factored because 1 parent is silver I always thought you need them tested to find out if they carry that gene am I wrong.


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## bamajeff (May 18, 2015)

pat addis said:


> as long as there is so much money in silvers they will still breed them I don't know a lot about genetics but I have seen silvers being sold as silver factored because 1 parent is silver I always thought you need them tested to find out if they carry that gene am I wrong.


If 1 parent is dd, all offspring will be dilute carriers Dd if mate is dilute free DD. If mate is dilute carrier, 50% will be dd and 50% Dd. If mate is dd as well, all offspring will be dd.


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## J. Marti (May 2, 2014)

Julie R. said:


> I don't have a dog in this hunt, since I have Chesapeakes (and they do have that dilute gene) but let me just say this: the ash color has become very unpopular due to the silver mutt fraud being foisted off on unsuspecting morons that think they're getting a purebred Lab. Even though the earliest written description of Chesapeakes contains a description of the color, and it has been around as long as the breed has. I have a question for all of you silver mutt breeders, two actually. #1. Are you members of the LRC? (insert rolling on the floor and sarcasm icons here) and #2. Why do you think it's OK to introduce a trait into a breed where it was bred out (if it ever existed) specifically because it was undesireable? Because you like it? Because it makes money? Because you're an ass?


Julie: Some of the silver dilute dog breeders are saying there are at least two documented crosses of labradors with Chesapeake Bay retriever in the early 1900's. And I have seen those pedigrees myself. These silver breeders say that is where the dilute gene in labs comes from but lab breeders who are opposed to silvers say the labradors produced from those crosses are not in the pedigrees of modern day, correctly colored labs.

Can you please enlighten me about this so I can give the information to a silver lab owner I know? Thanks.


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

J. Marti said:


> Julie R. said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have a dog in this hunt, since I have Chesapeakes (and they do have that dilute gene) but let me just say this: the ash color has become very unpopular due to the silver mutt fraud being foisted off on unsuspecting morons that think they're getting a purebred Lab. Even though the earliest written description of Chesapeakes contains a description of the color, and it has been around as long as the breed has. I have a question for all of you silver mutt breeders, two actually. #1. Are you members of the LRC? (insert rolling on the floor and sarcasm icons here) and #2. Why do you think it's OK to introduce a trait into a breed where it was bred out (if it ever existed) specifically because it was undesireable? Because you like it? Because it makes money? Because you're an ass?
> ...


The biggest piece of evidence in my mind that proves the dilute gene was introduced after the breed standard was set is that it popped up 50 years after and only in one particular area. The UK does not have dilutes unless they were recently imported.


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