# If you could spend a week training with any successful FT pro or amateur



## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

From the past or present. Who would it be? Why?
***edit***
Someone you’ve never trained with to date


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I cant have two? LOL 
Past - Rex Carr - because his methods win trials
Present - Polmaise- because it would be educational (and dare I say, entertaining)to learn from someone who has as much exp.with gundog training on the other side of the pond.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

Ok,
I’ll go with 2 as well. Rex Carr and Ted Shih. No explanation needed for Rex Carr. As for Ted. I’ve had the privilege of spending some time with Ted at a few of the Rorem clinics and would like to pick his brain about raising a pup to what he’s learned from Cherolyn Loveland, to his training approach, to his philosophy as an AA judge. Ted’s intrigue with the game is the actual motivating factor.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

There are four, all amateurs. I have the good fortune of training with at least a couple of them several times a week, weather and work schedule permitting. On my way home from training with a couple of them right now.
The reasons; knowledge, experience, humor, success, fellowship.


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

Lauren Hayes, Rex Carr


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Cotton Pershall
Delma Hazzard is a blast to train with.


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## David Maddox (Jan 12, 2004)

I’d like to throw in Lardy as well. I’d have added Farmer, but when I’ve been around him all we’ve talked about is football and baseball-LOL.


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## Mark Littlejohn (Jun 16, 2006)

Bill Eckett. I've always heard that he was the trainer's trainer and a true gentleman.


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Alan Pleasant, Pat Burns and Mike Coutu.


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## Zach Fisher (Jan 16, 2015)

Ben "Man" Rand - really a bird dog trainer but evidently he was an absolute wizard with young dogs.

https://strideaway.com/strideaway/uploads/BenManRandJr.HOF.pdf


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## Bryan Parks (Aug 19, 2015)

Lardy, Voight, Burns. 

Just because I closely follow Lardy's progression and overall training physiology. I feel I would learn more information that I could easily apply. 

I think I would most enjoy hanging out and talking with Farmer.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

drunkenpoacher said:


> There are four, all amateurs. I have the good fortune of training with at least a couple of them several times a week, weather and work schedule permitting. On my way home from training with a couple of them right now.
> The reasons; knowledge, experience, humor, success, fellowship.


To comply with the rule change made after my first post I'll change my answer to Carrie Underwood.


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

Dave Rorem. I just like "the way" he does things in his videos. I like his explanations.


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## KEB (Jul 23, 2012)

Chris Ledford. hes been doing it and doing well for a long-time


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

Jerry Harris and Shayne for voice coach and fashion tips. Qui Chang for pedal clad nymphs.


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## Kenneth Niles Bora (Jul 1, 2004)

drunkenpoacher said:


> To comply with the rule change made after my first post I'll change my answer to Carrie Underwood.


She Amish or use electric stimulation for your corrections?


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## Mike W. (Apr 22, 2008)

So many great ones...

I would say *Jim Gonia*...he has had so many great dogs & had so much success over a long period of time. He has had some of the highest rollers ever to pound the ground...would love to see how that goes down.


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## drunkenpoacher (Dec 20, 2016)

Kenneth Niles Bora said:


> drunkenpoacher said:
> 
> 
> > To comply with the rule change made after my first post I'll change my answer to Carrie Underwood.
> ...


Kind of hoping she goes both ways.


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## golfandhunter (Oct 5, 2009)

Dennis Voight 

Lance Brown


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## Andy (Apr 20, 2004)

golfandhunter said:


> Dennis Voight
> 
> Lance Brown


I once had the good fortune to train with Lanse .... 

I had a dog that was a bad breaker, of which Lanse was well aware. Lanse quickly volunteered to go out to throw the short mark of a double ... about 50 yards away. The long bird went down, then I signaled for the short mark. Lanse started shouting and dancing around like he was having a seizure ... Lucy broke and I was laughing so hard that I dropped my transmitter and couldn't even holler at her!


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## Golddogs (Feb 3, 2004)

Rex Carr would be someone from the past. 

Jim Pickering from the present. Not aware of anyone who is better with Goldens than him. ( JMHO )


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Golddogs said:


> Jim Pickering from the present. Not aware of anyone who is better with Goldens than him. ( JMHO )


Charlie Morgan, Jackie Mertens, Val Walker, Judy Rasmussen, Torch Flinn to name a few.


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## roseberry (Jun 22, 2010)

Robert Milner..........when he was still toe hitchin' on a table!


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## Mark S (Jan 2, 2019)

-Bill Hillman
-Lauren Hayes
-Mike Lardy


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## fnsret (Nov 12, 2003)

There are so many out there, but honestly I would like to go back into my personal life, take notes and pay attention from being a bird boy and throwing birds for 3 Retriever Hall of Famer's from 4th grade til through my first year of college. I know I missed out on so much from John and Debbie Morgan and Bach Doar. Present Day would probably be Danny Farmer, Mike Lardy or Alan Pleasant.


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## Jeff from Maine (Mar 19, 2019)

*Leonard Ferucci M.D.; Chena River Retrievers*

I spent a couple weekends back in the 90's speaking to Len while we were running derbies. His concept of training very young dogs was unique and outside of the box at the time. Wouldn't it be nice to spend more time talking retrievers with him?


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

Mike W. said:


> So many great ones...
> 
> I would say *Jim Gonia*...he has had so many great dogs & had so much success over a long period of time. He has had some of the highest rollers ever to pound the ground...would love to see how that goes down.


20+ years of that, there is no way I could have picked up what I did in a week.
This would be the same with many mentioned on this thread. 

George Wilson

Frank Kashaverof 

Bob Sparks

All very successful Amateurs.


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## RookieTrainer (Mar 11, 2011)

Andy said:


> I once had the good fortune to train with Lanse ....


Me too at his place in Banks, AL. Learned a LOT in a couple days. Wish it could have been more.


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## HarryWilliams (Jan 17, 2005)

Because it would be so much fun, Eddie Dewitt.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

John Trzepacz (NAFC River Oaks Corky & NAFC River Oaks Rascal)


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## Tom O (Jan 22, 2015)

*Trainers*

I recall training back around 1967 with my very first Lab. (By the way, just saw a thread about the '67 NAFC not wanting to get in Idaho water. Interesting!) Anyway, in 1967 I trained with two seperate groups. One a confirmed Carr bunch; the other offshoots of Carr, but hybrids. Rex's place in our history certainly speaks for itself. While many of his methods are the foundation of much of our training today, if you could train with him today and he was still practicing those same methods, how would your experience be? He was a great "dog man" and his experience with dog behavior prior to his fame as a retriever trainer led him to develop his innovative and visionary changes in dog training. That said, the Carr disciples' dogs I trained with often had water problems and often were anything but stylish. Sure there were some you would see at trials that could take that level of pressure and were good, real good, but there were many/more that could not. Was it the method or the application? Evolution of those methods has changed our game. See many dogs reluctant to get in the water these days? Piggy??? Innovators and evolutionists- if you point a finger at Lardy, how about Jim Kappes?? Has anyone mentioned him? I have been fortunate to train with some of the true greats and count myself awfully lucky to have been able as a young guy to train regularly at Dottie Metcalf's Farm near Fair Haven in New Jersey with the likes of guys like Bill McVitty and other dedicated (obsessed maybe??) Duck Hunters. That was real fun (and informative). But isn't this sport supposed to be fun? If that's truly the name of the game, and the question being asked here, no one ever was more fun to train with than Jay Sweezey. The stories he told.... the sense of History he exemplified, and yes, although he never won a National, he trained some great ones for some of the greatest. The shoe leather philosophy training regimen, that of Jay, Charlie Morgan, Elliott, and of course, my and many others' original introduction to dog training- James Lamb Free was in itself often pretty entertaining! Looking back, many today might criticize some of those methods as harsh or even cruel, but I beg you, don't go down the road as so many folks do today and submit to revisionist history. The names of the dogs are legendary and the trainers, well, that's where the word "awesome" really comes into meaning something.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

Marvin S said:


> Mike W. said:
> 
> 
> > So many great ones...
> ...


I learn new words and phrases from Frank every January. Last year it was related to chickens and vacuums.


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

Tom O said:


> I recall training back around 1967 with my very first Lab. (By the way, just saw a thread about the '67 NAFC not wanting to get in Idaho water. Interesting!) Anyway, in 1967 I trained with two seperate groups. One a confirmed Carr bunch; the other offshoots of Carr, but hybrids. Rex's place in our history certainly speaks for itself. While many of his methods are the foundation of much of our training today, if you could train with him today and he was still practicing those same methods, how would your experience be? He was a great "dog man" and his experience with dog behavior prior to his fame as a retriever trainer led him to develop his innovative and visionary changes in dog training. That said, the Carr disciples' dogs I trained with often had water problems and often were anything but stylish. Sure there were some you would see at trials that could take that level of pressure and were good, real good, but there were many/more that could not. Was it the method or the application? Evolution of those methods has changed our game. See many dogs reluctant to get in the water these days? Piggy??? Innovators and evolutionists- if you point a finger at Lardy, how about Jim Kappes?? Has anyone mentioned him? I have been fortunate to train with some of the true greats and count myself awfully lucky to have been able as a young guy to train regularly at Dottie Metcalf's Farm near Fair Haven in New Jersey with the likes of guys like Bill McVitty and other dedicated (obsessed maybe??) Duck Hunters. That was real fun (and informative). But isn't this sport supposed to be fun? If that's truly the name of the game, and the question being asked here, no one ever was more fun to train with than Jay Sweezey. The stories he told.... the sense of History he exemplified, and yes, although he never won a National, he trained some great ones for some of the greatest. The shoe leather philosophy training regimen, that of Jay, Charlie Morgan, Elliott, and of course, my and many others' original introduction to dog training- James Lamb Free was in itself often pretty entertaining! Looking back, many today might criticize some of those methods as harsh or even cruel, but I beg you, don't go down the road as so many folks do today and submit to revisionist history. The names of the dogs are legendary and the trainers, well, that's where the word "awesome" really comes into meaning something.


If you want to be entertained, you don't have to go far, Tom. Just go listen to Mr. Hugh.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

bjoiner said:


> If you want to be entertained, you don't have to go far, Tom. Just go listen to Mr. Hugh.


I would add that Hugh and Joe Harp talking **** hunting keeps everyone belly laughing


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

EdA said:


> I would add that Hugh and Joe Harp talking **** hunting keeps everyone belly laughing


You can throw Charlie Moody into the group of belly laugh inducing Pros


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## bjoiner (Feb 25, 2008)

tigerfan said:


> You can throw Charlie Moody into the group of belly laugh inducing Pros


Somebody need to record Charlie telling his bird boy stories. The later in the night, the better.


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## tigerfan (Mar 13, 2019)

bjoiner said:


> Somebody need to record Charlie telling his bird boy stories. The later in the night, the better.


The Saturday night comedy show in the Hotel Parking lot at the Memphis Trial is worth 2X what the room costs.
If you were to recycle all the empty's on bumpers and tailgates you could probably pay for your entry fee


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## Tom O (Jan 22, 2015)

Indeed, Hugh's subtle and reserved sense of humor is just what you'd expect from such a southern gentleman. Sweez, on the other hand, was the outgoing, gregarious north easterner. I have not been fortunate to hear Mr. Harp and Hugh together, but have been exposed a number of times to Hugh's discourses on his passion for the dogs and stories of **** hunting. Have been fortunate indeed to have spent one long evening with Mr. Moody when the stars were bright and life was good.


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

Tom O said:


> I have not been fortunate to hear Mr. Harp and Hugh together, but have been exposed a number of times to Hugh's discourses on his passion for the dogs and stories of **** hunting.


Joe’s narrative of the blind in one eye mule named Moshe Dayan will be forever memorable. Never approach Moshe on his blind side......


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## msharon (Mar 14, 2021)

Tom Sorenson...great trainer, good results.


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## KwickLabs (Jan 3, 2003)

I do not think one week would be enough.....for me. 

The author's name is rather ironic. 

_*https://jamesclear.com/new-habit*_


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## John Montenieri (Jul 6, 2009)

I've had the privilege of training with Cherylon Loveland and via her a little bit with Judy Aycock and Danny Farmer. As of the moment, Tim Milligan, I like the way he handles himself, the dogs and his demeanor. Very much a steady Eddy.
Caveat: I'm going to see him and my dog in a month


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## John Montenieri (Jul 6, 2009)

John Montenieri said:


> I've had the privilege of training with Cherylon Loveland and via her a little bit with Judy Aycock and Danny Farmer. As of the moment, Tim Milligan, I like the way he handles himself, the dogs and his demeanor. Very much a steady Eddy.
> Caveat: I'm going to see him and my dog in a month


I'm remiss in saying that I've also trained with Robby Bickley. Great trainer, beast of a shot, great setups, very consistent with his dogs.


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## Happy Gilmore (Feb 29, 2008)

I'd chose to spend another week with Jim.


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## Reginald (Apr 18, 2018)

John Montenieri said:


> I've had the privilege of training with Cherylon Loveland and via her a little bit with Judy Aycock and Danny Farmer. As of the moment, Tim Milligan, I like the way he handles himself, the dogs and his demeanor. Very much a steady Eddy.
> Caveat: I'm going to see him and my dog in a month


John,
It doesn't get much better than that!!! Enjoy every bit of the time you spend with those wonderful people.


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## John Montenieri (Jul 6, 2009)

Reginald said:


> John,
> It doesn't get much better than that!!! Enjoy every bit of the time you spend with those wonderful people.


Absolutely, the knowledge and experience is awesome. When they would setup tests I liked to stand behind them and listen to why each mark was setup and what they might expect. It was hard sometimes to retain everything so I started taking pictures of the setups and notes. I still refer to them today.


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## labsforme (Oct 31, 2003)

Paul, I agree about Jimmy. RIP. Have trained with Delma, Don R was a big help, Lance from the sidelines coaching at a trial land blind.  I would like to have trained with Rex Carr, Mike Lardy, and some of the southern gentlemen.
Not discounting current.

Jeff G


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

It has been my privilege over the years to have trained with or watch train many successful professional and amateur retriever trainers. I have known Mr. Farmer since his beginning as a neophyte when I knew more than he did to his becoming one of the all time best trainers. I was fortunate to spend time with Rex Carr in Escalon and at many Nationals. But most of all it has been my good fortune to train with Judy for about 45 years. Almost every day has been a learning or humbling experience and is ongoing including today. She is unquestionably the most insightful and accomplished dog trainer ever and that includes her mentor Rex Carr. If I have a complicated issue to deal with I still hand her the transmitter because her timing is impeccable and impossible to duplicate. People who come to train with us never learn much unless they ask, she never gives unsolicited advice. I never had the good fortune to train with Jimmy Gonia or Bill Eckett but would have liked to.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

*RIP Steve Bechtel**, *who would’ve fit into this thread for his professional generosity with his grounds, and for befriending some of the game’s great amateurs— 

MG


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

crackerd said:


> *RIP Steve Bechtel**, *who would’ve fit into this thread for his professional generosity with his grounds, and for befriending some of the game’s great amateurs—
> 
> MG


About two weeks after the 1992 National Retriever Championship in Ardmore OK for which I was Chairman I received a hand written note from him congratulating me for a well run well organized National. He seemed a humble man when you met him, nothing one would expect from the founder and CEO of one of the largest construction companies in the world.


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## Marvin S (Nov 29, 2006)

EdA said:


> About two weeks after the 1992 National Retriever Championship in Ardmore OK for which I was Chairman I received a hand written note from him congratulating me for a well run well organized National. He seemed a humble man when you met him, nothing one would expect from the founder and CEO of one of the largest construction companies in the world.


Most impressive to me is the fact that the company business is in the 5th generation of family
as managers & is still running at a high level. Steve ran some of the Mountain zone circuit, he
truly enjoyed the dogs.


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## Gregg0211 (Feb 11, 2015)

EdA said:


> It has been my privilege over the years to have trained with or watch train many successful professional and amateur retriever trainers. I have known Mr. Farmer since his beginning as a neophyte when I knew more than he did to his becoming one of the all time best trainers. I was fortunate to spend time with Rex Carr in Escalon and at many Nationals. But most of all it has been my good fortune to train with Judy for about 45 years. Almost every day has been a learning or humbling experience and is ongoing including today. She is unquestionably the most insightful and accomplished dog trainer ever and that includes her mentor Rex Carr. If I have a complicated issue to deal with I still hand her the transmitter because her timing is impeccable and impossible to duplicate. People who come to train with us never learn much unless they ask, she never gives unsolicited advice. I never had the good fortune to train with Jimmy Gonia or Bill Eckett but would have liked to.


It would be a great privilege to just stand behind her and watch. I know Ill never have a dog worthy to train with her or Danny, but just to be on the same grounds would be my holy grail.


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## Big Chief (Feb 4, 2018)

Chris Atkinson and EdA. Every time I read their answers to training questions, I come away having learned something. Every. Single. Time. I know I would come away feeling I have learned much and met admirable people.


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## Gregg0211 (Feb 11, 2015)

And they are always willing to help. THese are the folks that keep people coming back here. Among others.


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