# EIC Study - Updated 1/23/07



## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Chris Atkinson said:


> Keith, Can you please type a brief summary of how folks can do this?
> 
> Unfortunately, many folks want the test but don't feel they have the time to go out of their way to participate.
> 
> I know I'm heading into the vet for overdue shots and could easily have some blood drawn.


The study is being done at the U of Minnesota in collaboration with the U of Sask. They need blood samples from both affected and un-affected dogs in order to locate the gene(s?) responsible. I keep bringing this up because I think EIC is a serious threat to the health of field Labs and, with our cooperation, it looks like a test can be developed for carriers. (Like the breakthru in CNM.)

Please help them. If you're in for annual shots, just have your vet draw some blood.

It is easy to participate, just email for the forms: [email protected]
It would be best to include your dog's sire and dam in the email.

Thanks from me and my Labrabuddies.


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## meleagris (May 20, 2003)

Keith:

We're going to do it when we take the pups in for the CNM screening next week.

John
________
Colorado Marijuana Dispensaries


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

Kieth thanks for the info. I see alot of dogs with this problem and being able to identify this gene would save a whole lot of heart aches for people who by field dogs for hunting dogs. Only to find out their dog which has a lot of time invested must go into a preadolecent retirement.


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## Targander (Jul 6, 2004)

Question:

How do we "truly" know that any pup/dog has this condition, when samples are being sent? It mimics (in some cases) symptoms of CNM, Hypoglycemia as well as Epilepsy. 

Will it matter in the study of EIC, if samples are sent on an "opinion" or guess, if in fact, they do not?

Just a thought.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

Targander said:


> Will it matter in the study of EIC, if samples are sent on an "opinion" or guess, if in fact, they do not?


I'd say it's best to send that information with your email when you get the forms. Fill 'em out the best you can and let the researchers sort it out.

All mine were un-affected - no symptoms like that at all, but they were very interested in their pedigrees, so I guess their relatives are suspects. Don't know which ones, don't care. Let's get a test and sort it out from facts...


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## KJB (Jul 1, 2003)

I emailed the listed address a while back and told them I have 2 field bred young dogs who have not had any issues similar to EIC, nor am I aware of any littermates or ancestors with EIC. The guy who answered me said they want blood from both affected and unaffected dogs. 
Tina


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## Dogguy (Aug 22, 2005)

That?s correct researchers need blood from unaffected dogs as well as effected dogs for comparisons, they have blood from confirmed EIC dogs that have produced episodes in a controlled setting.

Targander if you have or have seen a dog with EIC it is unlike any other condition (CNM, Hypoglycemia, Epilepsy) know regardless of what you here, EIC has very classic symptoms. EIC can be induced and once observed in a particular dog can be predicted by observing the certain activities in combination with stimuli that triggered the episode. 

I will post a brief video in the next week (still having trouble uploading) of my dog at the onset of an EIC episode; it is rather scary to see.

Michael


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## Kris Hunt (Feb 25, 2005)

Targander said:


> Question:
> 
> How do we "truly" know that any pup/dog has this condition, when samples are being sent? It mimics (in some cases) symptoms of CNM, Hypoglycemia as well as Epilepsy.
> 
> ...


I have had dogs with EIC and I currently have a dog with epilepsy, trust me, there is no confusing the two.

Kris


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

So they want blood from any lab they can get right ? Even if they are not affected. And even if we don't plan to breed them ? I don't mind sending my 2 in, just don't want to send them stuff they don't need. And I'll be glad to urge every one I know with labs if they just need more samples.

I would like to see the video of your dog too, dogguy.


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## Emily Faith (Feb 5, 2003)

Not to be argumentative, but I have seen nothing to indicate that this so called "study" is seeking anything but pedigrees for dogs alleged to have this problem. To my knowledge, they are doing no research on blood samples sent in to them. Furthermore, when I called to offer any samples they might want from any or all of my dogs, they told me they were not interested. I would verify what is actually being done by this group before I wasted money on getting blood drawn and sent to them. 

The research don to idolate the DNA variation for CNM involved things like test breeding and real scientific testing. They didn't collect pedigrees of dogs with totally normal test results to call them "carriers". Grouping the "EIC Study" with the work done to identify the cause of myopathy that lead to a test for carriers is like comparing a Phd to a GED.


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## Dogguy (Aug 22, 2005)

Emily here is a copy of an email received back in Aug05 from the head DNA Researcher at UM. I was later contacted and received paperwork to fill out and instruction on submitting a blood sample.

Dr. Mickelson and Dr. Taylor have been very informative with prompt replies to all my emails. If anyone has a question on the research they are doing, I would suggest just dropping them an email. 




> Michael,
> 
> Thank you very much for this message. We really do appreciate your interest and concern.
> 
> ...


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

Emily Faith said:


> Not to be argumentative, but I have seen nothing to indicate that this so called "study" is seeking anything but pedigrees for dogs alleged to have this problem.


Along those lines, heck, check what labs Sue Taylor is keeping to run herself. 

Before the PRA test was developed pedigree analysis was used extensively in Guide Dog breeding colonies. 

PRA/CNM/EIC are all supposed to be autosomal recessive.

Everyone of us, should be happy to send whatever the researchers request.


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## DSO (Dec 27, 2005)

I used the link provided in the 1st post and got the forms emailed back to me promptly. I used the email address provided with the forms to answer a few questions that I had and it all seemed pretty legit to me. My boy doesn't show any symptoms (thank God) but I think it's the least we can do to get a handle on this nasty affliction.

Danny


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## Emily Faith (Feb 5, 2003)

Again, I offered and was told they had no interest in my sending any samples. Of course, I don't have any dogs that are afflicted with any symptoms, so I assume that is why. It was my understanding, in actually talking to someone at the university study laboratory, that they don't just want samples from any lab. While I had been told that a relative of some of my dogs was afflicted, they still told me they didn't want samples from any of my dogs. The point being, that sending blood samples of your dogs is not only not "the least a breeder can do", as some have implied, but it is pointless and not wanted.


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

I don't understand Emily, I contacted them and expressly told them that none of my dogs were exhibiting signs and asked if they still wanted samples from them and they said yes. I guess we are getting a example of the right hand not knowing about the left hand....


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

I just sent an email........I'll see what I get back. None of mine are affected (thank goodness). 

I still think some dogs symptoms are so germaine to other things, So how are they sorting all of that out...... maybe the forms will tell me.


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

Hi Susan,
*We are also looking for dogs that are unaffected and unrelated to
affecteds. * We need a broad population base to make the comparison. We
would be happy to receive samples from your dogs.
Katie 




On 17 Jan 2006, Susan wrote:
> Katie-
> 
> It looks as if you want only blood samples from unaffected dogs that
> have relatives with symptoms of EIC, is that correct=3F My dogs have no
> known traits, nor do any littermates, etc. =20
> 
> Do you need samples of that nature=3F =20
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> =46rom: minork [mailto:[email protected]]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:10 PM
> To: Bledsoe,Susan G
> Subject: Re: EIC study
> 
> Hi Susan,
> Thanks so much for your willingness to help with our study. I've
> attached
> the necessary forms for you. If none of your dogs have EIC, we do not
> need
> the questionnaire filled out, I've just included it for your information
> on
> things to look for. If you have any questions, please let me know.
> Katie =20
>


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## Katie Minor (Sep 19, 2005)

*EIC Research*

Hi, I'm the one currently doing the research at the U on EIC. I have been working full time on this project for two years now. I hope if I'm the one you talked to I didn't make it sound like we were not interested in getting samples from your dogs. We are interested in obtaining samples from as many labradors as we can get. 

We are conducting a genome scan with the blood samples we receive, that works out to about 500 tests on each sample. Not all dogs will be immediately be tested. We have complied a pedigree for the initial scan (we have to use the same dogs all the way through). As areas of interest begin to appear we add more dogs into the tests to help us confirm or toss out areas that are showing hot spots. We've found some very promising ones. I'm actually going to be testing several more dogs soon. When the area is confirmed all dogs that we have will be tested to validate our test. Results will then be given to the owners. 

The reason we need the pedigrees from every sample is simply because that is the information used to generate data for our tests. Based on the pedigree and the affection status of all members of the pedigree a number is generated for how likely the gene of interest is in the area tested.

We need unaffected dogs to compare what genotype a normal dog has vs. an affected dog. Also, often normal dogs do have dogs who are carriers of EIC in their pedigree and the owner is unaware of this.

I hope this has answered some of the questions regarding what we are working on. 

Katie


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## jon gallops (Oct 29, 2005)

Thanks for the info Katie  
Hope you will stop by sometimes and keep the retriever world updated.


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

Can someone please tell me how "they" are confirming the validity of the owners claims? Most vets have never heard of eic, let alone know how to diagnose it? How many misdiagnosed dogs, or dogs with eic that haven't shown outward signs added as non affected dogs, will it take to skew the research?


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## Targander (Jul 6, 2004)

Achrio wrote: 



> Can someone please tell me how "they" are confirming the validity of the owners claims? Most vets have never heard of eic, let alone know how to diagnose it? How many misdiagnosed dogs, or dogs with eic that haven't shown outward signs added as non affected dogs, will it take to skew the research?


In other words, that was my exact question....


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## KJB (Jul 1, 2003)

I don't know how their study is designed, but I can see one possibility:

They have 4 groups of dogs - 1 from the studies done by Taylor et al that are "confirmed" to have EIC. Another from those studies they know do not have EIC. The we have 2 groups, 1 believed by owners etc to be EIC affected and 1 believed not affected. Now, using what you've got about the genetics of the 1st 2 groups, you can use the 2 "unknown" groups as a test of your theory. Given the uncertainties you folks are bringing up, the statistical variance of the test groups will be very high, but that doesn't render the results invalid or useless. 

Again, I don't know what their design is, or how they plan to analyze the data, but having done a bit of research in non-controlled natural settings, I can see how it can be done, even with all the uncertainty and potential for misdiagnosis. 
JMHO
Tina


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## JusticeDog (Jul 3, 2003)

One of the ways is they are sending out a form asking various questions. If you wish to see it, p.m. me your email address and I'll forward it to you. But, I have the same concerns, one man's EIC is another's epilepsey is another's heat exhaustion.


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## Emily Faith (Feb 5, 2003)

Achiro,
I have the same concerns. There can't be a lot of reliability when the dogs for which blood samples are submitted are not examined and reliably diagnosed. If most vets would not be able to understand and diagnose an illness or syndrome, how can you expect a layperson to do it? I really am not being critical here. I know that the group looking at the problem has limited funds and I am sure they are doing the best they can with limited resources. If they could figure out a way to scientifically study this canine malady that would relate to a human disease, that would be the way to get the money they would need. The collie people did that with the ivermectin intolerance they have and they got the funding they needed to identify the DNA variation and devise a test for it.


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## Katie Minor (Sep 19, 2005)

*From the U*

Okay,
So there appears to be a lot of skepticism out there about our research and why we need to gather the information that we do for our study. I?m going to attempt to explain what I do here. It?s something I haven?t been able to explain to my parents for the two years I?ve been working on this, but here goes.

To begin with we log in all the dogs we receive and whether or not they have been diagnosed as affected. This is done by a series of tests to rule out other causes and by looking at the rather specific characteristics of how a dog with EIC collapses. It?s usually when the dog is very excited and in a high intensity training mode. The dog will become wobbly and unsteady on his feet a lose control of the rear limbs.  This collapse can lead to death if the dog is not cooled down. Dogs who have collapsed only once or twice and the owner is unsure of the cause are marked as unknowns. Dogs that have been vigorously worked and have never had an episode of collapse are labeled as unaffected.

We then use the pedigree of the dogs to begin to create a picture of the disease. With the pedigrees of all the dogs collected we can begin to see a relationship (even a very distant one) between affected dogs. The goal is to connect all the dogs into one very elaborate pedigree to begin to understand how the disease is being inherited. Based on the picture we have currently, we believe that EIC is being inherited as an autosomal recessive disease.

An autosomal recessive disease is inherited in the following way: Each dog has two sets of chromosomes; one from the dam, the other from the sire. If both the sire and dam have a set of normal chromosomes, then all of their puppies will also have a normal set of chromosomes. If one dog has a normal set of chromosomes and the other has one normal chromosome and one abnormal chromosome for a disease then half of their offspring will inherit one abnormal chromosome, but none will be affected by the disease. As a recessive disease, even if you have one bad copy of a chromosome, the other is able to compensate and you will appear normal. 
If both parents are carriers for one abnormal chromosome then we begin to run into problems. Typically with two carrier parents, 25% of the time the offspring will inherit both normal chromosomes, 50% of the time they will inherit one abnormal chromosome from either the sire or the dam, and another 25% of the time the offspring will inherit the abnormal chromosome from both parents and be affected by the disease. 
If an affected dog is bred to a chromosomally normal dog, all the offspring will be carriers, but unaffected.
If an affected dog is bred to a carrier, 25% will be carriers, and the other 75% will be affected.
As you can see, the more this disease is bred into a population, the worse it will become.

Based on the pedigrees we have constructed and the way the disease is inheriting we can begin testing to find the gene that is responsible for the disease. We test each dog all along every chromosome they have (39 pairs, 38 autosomal and 1 sex chromosome). So far we have tested 500 different segments of DNA, and have had some success in locating areas of interest. 
After we run the test on a segment of DNA, we look to see where it has been inherited from. Has the dog inherited that segment of the chromosome from its mother?s mother or father, the same for the chromosome inherited from its father? We begin to get an understanding of how the segment has been passed down, and look at the pedigree to see if a pattern develops between a specific chromosomal segment and the disease inheritance. 

The chromosomal segments that each dog has inherited is then entered into statistical software that uses the relationships between the affected and unaffected dogs in the pedigree to generate a likelihood that the affected chromosome is in the area that has been tested.

To be able to accurately determine whether the segment is the affected segment we need to know if it is coming from a dog that was affected or unaffected, and whether or not it has had affected dogs closely related to it. We can?t tell who all the carriers are, but through pedigree construction a mathematical likelihood can be assigned to it.
When everything lines up correctly for the disease pattern, all the dogs in the pedigree will have the same two affected chromosomal segment, and all the parents of affecteds will have at least one. Our research is hindered, when we do not have accurate information about the parents of the affected dogs, many have to be entered in as unknown. 

The ultimate goal of our research is to develop a simple test that will allow you to know at birth, whether or not the dog is a carrier or affected by the disease. Using informed breeding choices, you could breed around and maybe eventually breed out this very devastating to witness disease.

I hope this has been helpful and answered some questions about what we are doing here. I?m always willing to answer anyone?s questions, or pass them along to those who may have more answers.

Please also understand that this study is confidential, and that results of any individual dog will only ever be released to the owner of the dog.


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## Dogguy (Aug 22, 2005)

Thanks for shedding some light of your work Katie; glad to know you are not just pulling it out of thin air!

So I guess it would be nice for the breed as a whole, if all the popular stud owners would submit blood samples of their dogs if they have not already. It would most likely speed up finding the gene responsible for EIC a whole lot more then just offspring submitting samples. 

Michael


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## Brad B (Apr 29, 2004)

Thanks Katie that was very helpfull.


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## Gwen Jones (Jun 19, 2004)

Katie,

Is there any specific line of dogs that you would like to have blood from? Private Emails are possible and would be responded to quickly by our group of lab lovers. Thanks for your hard work.l


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## Katie Minor (Sep 19, 2005)

Sadly, because of confidentiality, I'm not allowed to disclose a preference for specific lines. We are most interested in field trial lines that have become very popular, as they will have the most related dogs. I'm happy to respond individually to email at [email protected] or phone calls to 612-624-5322. If necessary, we can also work to help defray shipping costs if multiple samples can be combined into one shipment.


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## Chris Atkinson (Jan 3, 2003)

"They" have spoken. 

This is the part where those who asked are supposed to say "Thank You" :wink: 

Katie, Thank You!


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Katie,

Thanks for your hard work! 

Lainee, Flash and Bullet


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## achiro (Jun 17, 2003)

*Re: From the U*



Katie Minor said:


> To begin with we log in all the dogs we receive and whether or not they have been diagnosed as affected. This is done by a series of tests to rule out other causes and by looking at the rather specific characteristics of how a dog with EIC collapses. It?s usually when the dog is very excited and in a high intensity training mode. The dog will become wobbly and unsteady on his feet a lose control of the rear limbs. This collapse can lead to death if the dog is not cooled down. Dogs who have collapsed only once or twice and the owner is unsure of the cause are marked as unknowns. Dogs that have been vigorously worked and have never had an episode of collapse are labeled as unaffected.


I guess this doesn't address my concerns at all. In fact it seems to confirm them. 
I have heard of "unaffected" dogs becoming "affected" seemingly overnight. I have also seen dogs dx'd with heat stroke that may be called unaffected. 
What about true heat stroke being dx'd as EIC? Dogs that have had a problem with heat seem more prone to having problems again.

I DO applaud the work being done here. Thank you for taking on such a huge project. There are concerns though and hopefully they are addressed in the numbers at the end.


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## KJB (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: From the U*



achiro said:


> Katie Minor said:
> 
> 
> > To begin with we log in all the dogs we receive and whether or not they have been diagnosed as affected. This is done by a series of tests to rule out other causes and by looking at the rather specific characteristics of how a dog with EIC collapses. It?s usually when the dog is very excited and in a high intensity training mode. The dog will become wobbly and unsteady on his feet a lose control of the rear limbs. This collapse can lead to death if the dog is not cooled down. Dogs who have collapsed only once or twice and the owner is unsure of the cause are marked as unknowns. Dogs that have been vigorously worked and have never had an episode of collapse are labeled as unaffected.
> ...


I guess I don't see how the red doesn't answer your question, Russ. But then, you always were a conspiracy theorist. :twisted: 

Thanks, Katie!


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## gone2thedogs (Jan 25, 2006)

Katie,
Thanks for the great information.

I do have a question about the genetic percentages. You covered them well, except I didn't see what the percentages would be if you had one dog with normal chromosomes and breed it to a carrier that is unaffected. What percentage of the pups would be normal, carriers or affected?
Thanks for your help!

The RTF is great for making this a sticky so that we can all learn more about this and stay on top of the research. I will get samples from my dogs to you the next time they visit our Vet.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

gone2thedogs said:


> ... he percentages would be if you had one dog with normal chromosomes and breed it to a carrier that is unaffected.


IF it's a single gene recessive, as currently suspected, the average would be 50% un-affected "carriers" and 50% clear. (The same as breeding a black/black dog to a black dog that carries yellow. In that case all would be black, "unaffected", but half would carry the "defect" yellow.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

Mendel's fellow monks destroyed all his scientific papers right after they burried him, so his work was only discovered 30+ years later in a copy he sent somewhere. He did experiemnts with bees and accidently bred some ferocious ones... Smart, but not lucky.

Similar to crossing a black lab out to a coyote


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## gone2thedogs (Jan 25, 2006)

Thanks,
I was re-reading her post last night and came to that conclusion.
I hope that they get this figured out soon. I have heard of too many dogs with EIC this year....


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## HiRollerlabs (Jun 11, 2004)

*Evening Appts Available at the U of MN*

One of the roadblocks in going to the U of MN to have the samples 
collected for FREE, was that samples were only collected during the day. People did not want to take time off from work to have the samples drawn.

Katie Minork, our research contact at the U of MN, is going to 
arrange evening appointments for these draws. If you would like to 
contribute to this IMPORTANT research, please email or call Katie to schedule an evening appt.

Take copies of your dog's pedigree to your appointment. If your dog is on any medications, bring those with your or bring a detailed list of the medications. You will also have to complete a consent form and a questionnaire for your dog. Katie can email these forms to you or you can complete them at the time of your appointment.

Katie's email address is [email protected] or contact her at 612-624-5322.

If you can draw your own samples, contact Katie and she will send you the supplies. Be sure to put your dog's name on all tubes so they can be matched to the paperwork. Include your dog's pedigree, the consent form and the questionnaire.

If your vet will draw the samples for free, the U of MN will reimburse you for the shipping costs. Contact Katie for the FedEx account charge number.

Please share this with anyone who might be interested in helping.


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## North Mountain (Oct 20, 2003)

> the U of MN will reimburse you for the shipping costs


  I wish I had know that before I shipped my samples, there goes $40. :? 

Oh well, it's for a good cause.

Laura


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## Andy Carlson (Jan 3, 2003)

North Mountain said:


> > the U of MN will reimburse you for the shipping costs
> 
> 
> I wish I had know that before I shipped my samples, there goes $40. :?
> ...


My shipping charges were even more than that, but it will be money well spent if it can help in their research. Got an email that they received the samples from my 3 dogs today.

Andy


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

*Thanks*

I want to thank all of you who have sent in samples. A test for EIC carriers would be wonderful.

The shipper lost my first set of 5 samples and I had to re-sample at my vet and re-send, 

but compare that with the chance of a test that can guarantee your next pup will be free of EIC... Never mind the improvement in the long-term health of the breed.

Thanks to those who helped and to the vet teams at U of MN ans U of Saks. And thanks to Chris for making this "stick."


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

I scanned the thread quickly and didn't see an answer to this question: Do the researchers have an idea how long it might be before they are successful in determining how EIC is passed and if determined, how long before they could have a test for general use? 1 year, 5 years, 10 year?


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## DSO (Dec 27, 2005)

Quote: 
the U of MN will reimburse you for the shipping costs 

Shipped mine out yesterday morning. Costs some bucks between the vet bill and shipping. I really wish I'd read the latest posts before I paid for shipping. Either way it's worth the $ and effort.


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## lovesblacklabs (Nov 6, 2005)

we are not breeders/ just love labs/ we have a hunting preserve and lost our good dog a year ago, I have posted on this topic before and I am amazed at the amount of people who do not know about this problem. Our new dog is 13 months old, has awesome bloodlines and is even better in the field. He has now had 4 episodes of EIC, and if you have ever seen it,,, it is the most heart wrenching thing in the world. Our black male will literally try to drag himself with his front legs so he can continue to hunt. We have to physically stop him, I have been told dogs can die if allowed to push on. We have had 4 different groups of hunters with us on these occassions and it has made grown men cry, to see a potentially great dog want but can't continue the hunt. The info I have gotten about this test study is that they want 3 episodes to truly consider it EIC. I hope I don't sound hostile, but we love this guy and are very bummed. OUr breeder has been great, but some of the other kennels in his lineage deny even knowing anything about this kind of problem and it definitely is affecting thier dogs.... well it is because my dog comes right down the line from a GMHR who is in the Hall of Fame. If you love labs; (brittanys are showing some of this too) We need to do whatever it takes to help.


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## gone2thedogs (Jan 25, 2006)

lovesblacklabs,
Trust me, I understand your feelings! It tears me apart to watch such a talented dog have an episode and still try to hunt. I have learned the warning signs and stop mine as soon as an episode starts, prior to the rear legs giving out. For the most part, upland hunting is just a dream to her now.....

Mine took part in the Auburn research, and will take part in the U of MN DNA analysis as well. We need to help how ever we can to try to find out more so that educated decisions can be made. Today many breeders just sweep this under the carpet and don't inform buyers about this condition. Putting the risk on to people like us. Heck, my breeder is still breeding his stud to other dogs after multiple cases of EIC type symptoms from pups. He figures that if he has to buy back a pup every litter or so it is OK with him financially..... Mine is the only one that has gone through the Auburn study to date. What they don't understand is that we buy these dogs to love, be family members and hunt with. If a pup has this condition and can't hunt it tears a part of our hearts out and the dogs as well. It just plain sucks!


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

gone2thedogs said:


> Heck, my breeder is still breeding his stud to other dogs after multiple cases of EIC type symptoms from pups. He figures that if he has to buy back a pup every litter or so it is OK with him financially.....It just plain sucks!


No, it is more than SUCKS...it is all for the BUCKS! I hope that you run as far away from that breeder as you can get and you advise anyone else with whom you talk about labs to do the same.


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

gone2thedogs said:


> . Heck, my breeder is still breeding his stud to other dogs after multiple cases of EIC type symptoms from pups. He figures that if he has to buy back a pup every litter or so it is OK with him financially.....


I am confused. Are you saying the stud dog owner buys back affected pups, from outside bitches? I would like to see his stud contact!!!


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## gone2thedogs (Jan 25, 2006)

Aussie,
No, he has not bought back pups from breedings he did not own the bitch to. The worst part is he is not telling the owners of the bitches that his dog is bred to that there have been cases of EIC in his pups. He puts all the risk on them with none of the knowledge, or decision making.....
Not right in my mind.....


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## gone2thedogs (Jan 25, 2006)

Updated info from Dr. Taylor for those that care.

elow is an excerpt from correspondence with Dr. Susan Taylor in regards to the most resent information available on EIC. Also attached is an updated information sheet on EIC dated January 2006 as well as a link to view EIC collapse. 

Quote: 
I am attaching our latest very detailed information sheet on the syndrome. The clinical and survey phases of our study on EIC at the University of Saskatchewan are completed and nearly ready for scientific publication - unfortunately until we find the causative gene we will not have a diagnostic test - we just need to rule out other things that can look similar. I have, over the last 10 years, consulted on many dogs that owners or vets thought had EIC but they actually had an unusual form of epilepsy, CNM, cardiac arrhythmias, low blood sugar, low cortisol levels, even lumbosacral disease - all of which were diagnosable through careful physical exams and lab testing. That being said, I am certain that EIC is the most common cause of recurrent exercise induced collapse in young adults in the Labrador breed. 

I would encourage owners of affected dogs to submit pedigrees and blood samples to the lab in MN to help us with our heritability study (it looks like this is going to be autosomal recessive, but could possibly be dominant with incomplete penetrance) and our search for the gene (they feel they are getting close). Until we find the gene, we will not be able to test. Once we find the gene we can (and will) set up a test and do for this disease what the group from France has done for CNM - giving people the information they need to know who to breed, who to breed to, and which pups should go to which types of homes (even severely affected dogs live perfectly normal lives as family pets). At the back of the handout are a couple of forms that can be used to submit blood samples to my collaborators in Minnesota from affected dogs and relatives of affected dogs. 


View EIC collapse 
http://www.vidiLife.com/reloc.cfm?cryp=010-03A99271-B9F3-4BF6-BC9D-B 


PLEASE NOTE BLOOD SAMPLE SUBMISSION FORMS AT BOTTOM 



EXERCISE INDUCED COLLAPSE IN LABRADOR RETRIEVERS 
Susan M. Taylor, DVM, Diplomate ACVIM (Internal Medicine) 
Western College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada 
January 2006 Update 

A syndrome of exercise intolerance and collapse (EIC) has been recognized in young adult Labrador Retrievers. 

A comprehensive study of this condition is underway involving collaborators from the Western College of Veterinary Medicine (WCVM) of the University of Saskatchewan , the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Minnesota and the Comparative Neuromuscular Unit at the University of California. The objectives of this study are to (1) describe the syndrome so that it can be recognized by dog owners, veterinarians and trainers, (2) to thoroughly evaluate affected dogs to try to establish an efficient means of diagnosis and to gain some insight into the cause of the collapse and (3) to determine the genetic basis for the collapse syndrome. This research is being supported by generous grants from the Morris Animal Foundation and the WCVM's Companion Animal Health Fund. 

The following is a summary of some of what we have learned in the last 5 years about the syndrome of Exercise Induced Collapse in Labrador Retrievers: 

WHO GETS IT? 

The syndrome of exercise intolerance and collapse (EIC) is being observed with increasing frequency in young adult Labrador Retrievers. Most, but not all, affected dogs have been from field-trial breedings. Black, yellow and chocolate Labradors of both sexes are affected, with the distribution of colors and sexes closely reflecting the typical distribution in field trials (black males most common). Signs become apparent in young dogs as they encounter heavy training or strenuous activity - usually between 5 months and 3 years of age (average 14 months). In dogs used for field trials, this usually coincides with the age at which they enter heavy training. Littermates and other related dogs are commonly affected but depending on their temperament and lifestyle may or may not manifest symptoms. Affected dogs exhibiting symptoms of collapse are usually described as being extremely fit, muscular, prime athletic specimens of their breed with an excitable temperament and lots of drive. 



DESCRIPTION OF COLLAPSE 

Affected dogs can tolerate mild to moderate exercise, but 5 to 20 minutes of strenuous exercise with excitement induces weakness and then collapse. Severely affected dogs may collapse whenever they are exercised to this extent - other dogs only exhibit collapse sporadically and all of the factors important in inducing an episode have not yet been well established. 

The first thing noted is usually a rocking or forced gait. The rear limbs then become weak and unable to support weight. Many affected dogs will continue to run while dragging their back legs. Some of the dogs appear to be incoordinated, especially in the rear limbs, with a wide-based, long stride rather than the short, stiff strides typically associated with muscle weakness. In some dogs the rear limb collapse progresses to forelimb weakness and occasionally to a total inability to move. Some dogs appear to have a loss of balance and may fall over, particularly as they recover from collapse. Most collapsed dogs are totally conscious and alert, still trying to run and retrieve but as many as 25% of affected dogs will appear stunned or disoriented during the episode. 

It is common for the symptoms to worsen for 3 to 5 minutes even after exercise has been terminated. NOTE: A few affected dogs have died during exercise or while resting immediately after an episode of exercise-induced collapse so an affected dog's exercise should ALWAYS be stopped at the first hint of incoordination or wobbliness 

Most dogs recover quickly and are usually normal within 5 to 25 minutes with no residual weakness or stiffness. Dogs are not painful during the collapse or after recovery. Massage of the muscles or palpation of the joints or spine is not uncomfortable. Affected dogs are not stiff or sore or limping upon recovery. 

Body Temperature 

Body temperature is normal at rest in dogs with EIC but is almost always dramatically increased at the time of collapse (temperature >41.5 C, >107.6F). We have shown experimentally, however, that clinically normal Labrador Retrievers doing this type of exercise for 10 minutes routinely had similar dramatic elevations in body temperature yet exhibited no signs of weakness , collapse or disorientation. Dogs with EIC will pant hard during the time of collapse, in an attempt to cool off, but this is similar to normal dogs exercised in the same manner. The time it takes for dogs with EIC to return to their resting temperature after exercise is not different from normal dogs. Although temperature may play some role in EIC, and may contribute to the death of some affected dogs, inability to properly regulate temperature does not appear to be the underlying problem in dogs with EIC. 


FACTORS CONTRIBUTING TO COLLAPSE IN DOGS WITH EIC 

Ambient Temperature. Actual ambient temperature does not seem to be a critical factor contributing to collapse, but if the temperature is much warmer or the humidity is much higher than what the dog is accustomed to, collapse may be more likely. Affected dogs are less likely to collapse while swimming than when being exercised on land. There are dogs, however, who have exhibited collapse while breaking ice retrieving waterfowl in frigid temperatures and there are dogs who have drowned when experiencing EIC -related collapse in the water. 

Excitement. Dogs that exhibit the symptoms of EIC are most likely to have intense, excitable personalities, and it is apparent that their level of excitement plays a role in inducing the collapse. There are some severely affected dogs who, if they are very excited, do not require much exercise to induce the collapse. Dogs with EIC are most likely to collapse when engaging in activities that they find very exciting or stressful. This can include retrieving of live birds, participation in field trials, training drills with electric collar pressure and quartering for upland game. 

Type of Exercise. Routine exercise like jogging, hiking, swimming , most waterfowl hunting and even agility or flyball training are not very likely to induce an episode in dogs with EIC. Activities with continuous intense exercise , particularly if accompanied by a high level of excitement or anxiety most commonly cause collapse. Activities commonly implicated include grouse or pheasant hunting, repetitive "happy retrieves", retrieving drills or repetition of difficult marks or blinds where the dog is being repeatedly corrected or is anticipating collar correction, and running alongside an ATV. 

VETERINARY EVALUATION OF AFFECTED DOGS/DIAGNOSIS 

Twenty affected dogs have undergone extensive testing before and after exercise at the WCVM. Nervous system, cardiovascular and musculoskeletal examinations are unremarkable in dogs with EIC as is routine blood analysis at rest and during an episode of collapse. These dogs do not experience heart rhythm abnormalities, low blood sugar, electrolyte disturbances or respiratory difficulty that could explain their collapse. Body temperature is remarkably elevated during collapse (average 107.1F, many up to 108F), but this has been found in normal exercise-tolerant Labradors as well. Affected dogs hyperventilate and experience dramatic alterations in their blood carbon dioxide concentration (decreased) and their blood pH (increased) but these changes were also observed in the normal exercising dogs. Testing for the neuromuscular disorder myasthenia gravis is negative. Thyroid gland function and adrenal gland cortisol production appear to be normal. Affected dogs are negative for the genetic mutation known to cause malignant hyperthermia in dogs (a different muscle disorder). Metabolic testing of blood and muscle from affected dogs before and after exercise suggests that these dogs may have a defect in the chemical reactions necessary for energy production in their muscles and in their brain. The precise defect has not been identified and the changes are mild and not conclusive. Further investigation is ongoing. 


At this time (until we develop a genetic test) EIC can only be diagnosed by ruling out all other muscle disorders and by observing characteristic clinical features, history and laboratory test results in affected dogs. Any dog with exercise intolerance should always have a complete veterinary evaluation to rule-out joint diseases, heart failure, anemia, heart rhythm disturbances, respiratory problems, low blood sugar , myasthenia gravis, hypoadrenocorticism (low cortisol), other muscle diseases and other systemic disorders. 

LONG TERM OUTLOOK 

Symptomatic dogs are rarely able to continue training or competition. It seems that if affected dogs are removed from training and not exercised excessively the condition will not progress and they will be fine as pets. They are able to continue to live pretty normal lives, if owners limit their intense exercise and excitement. Many dogs will seem to "get better" as they age and slow down their activity and their excitement level. It is important that owners of dogs with EIC be made aware that the dog's exercise should be stopped at the first hint of incoordination or wobbliness as some affected dogs have died during collapse when their owners allowed or encouraged continuing exercise. Not all of the EIC deaths have occurred in dogs rated as severely affected based on their number of episodes of collapse or the amount of activity required to induce an episode. 


TREATMENT 

As the actual biochemical defect underlying EIC is still unknown, it is difficult to recommend an effective treatment. Owners of some affected dogs have reported that if they feed their dogs a higher fat diet and/or keep more weight on their dog, that the episodes may be more difficult to induce. The best treatment in most dogs consists of avoiding intensive exercise in conjunction with extreme excitement and ending exercise at the first sign of weakness/wobbliness. A few dogs have, however, responded to medical treatment to the degree that they can re-enter training and competition at a high level. Each of the treatments listed below has been effective in a few dogs, but none of them has been 100% effective in all dogs. 

Treatment as a metabolic myopathy 
There is some biochemical evidence that EIC may be caused by a defect in oxidative metabolism within the brain and muscle. This means that dogs with EIC could be deficient in a substance needed for normal energy production in these tissues. Carnitine is a compound normally found in high concentrations in muscle and brain that is necessary for transport of fatty acids into the mitochondria for energy production in these tissues. We have found that approximately 30% of dogs with EIC have lower than normal levels of muscle carnitine. A few affected dogs have had a positive clinical response to oral supplementation with carnitine (50mg/kg 2X/day), CoEnzyme Q10 (100mg/day) and Riboflavin (100 mg/day) - a standard cocktail for metabolic myopathies/neuropathies. 


Treatment with 7-KETO 
There is anecdotal evidence that a number of severely affected dogs have responded positively to a nutraceutical called 7-KETO. This is a breakdown product of the hormone dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), a steroid made by the adrenal glands and brain. The dosage used has been 100 mg twice each day. The precise mechanism of action of 7-KETO in affected dogs is unknown, but it has demonstrated positive effects on energy production in the muscle and brain as well as acting as a neuroactive steroid, with effects on several neurotransmitter receptors in the brain. 

Treatment with Phenobarbital 
There are now numerous reports of quite a few severely affected dogs improving when they were treated with Phenobarbital (2 mg/kg every 12 hours). This drug is an anti-seizure medication commonly used to treat dogs with epilepsy. Phenobarbital decreases the intrinsic excitability of brain cells and decreases the spread of abnormal electrical discharges in the brain. The mechanism underlying its effectiveness in dogs with EIC is uncertain but is under investigation. 

HEREDITY 

Littermates and other related dogs are commonly affected, suggesting that EIC is hereditary. Clinically unaffected dams and sires commonly produce litters with more than one affected dog, suggesting either an autosomal recessive mode of inheritance (must be inherited from both parents) or inheritance as a dominant trait with incomplete penetrance (can be inherited from just one parent). A few clinically unaffected males have sired many puppies with EIC when bred to different bitches. Pedigree analysis of greater than 150 affected dogs is underway in an attempt to more precisely determine the mode of inheritance. 

Major difficulty currently exists in classifying individual dogs as definitively affected or unaffected by EIC. Some dogs may have the genetic makeup and metabolic abnormalities underlying EIC, yet they never collapse because they are not asked to perform strenuous exercise or they may perform the exercise without the mix of enthusiasm and excitement necessary to induce collapse. We will not be able to identify these dogs as being affected by EIC until there is a simple, specific test genetic for the condition. 

DNA harvested from the blood of affected dogs and their relatives is currently being used to perform a full genome scan at the University of Minnesota in order to identify a genetic marker for EIC, and find the genetic mutation causing EIC. This is a slow and tedious process. Once the affected gene is identified, we will be able to use DNA testing to identify dogs that carry this gene as well as to identify dogs that are affected before they start to show clinical signs. A genetic test would allow veterinarians to definitively diagnose the condition using a simple blood test. As well, breeders could test their breeding stock to identify affected dogs and carriers. The test could also be used to test litters of puppies - obviously affected dogs should not be sold into working homes and known carriers should not be bred. 


In order for the genome scan to be successful, large numbers of samples must be collected from affected dogs and their affected and unaffected relatives. The most useful families for molecular genetic analysis are those for which we have DNA samples from multiple closely related affected dogs (siblings or half-siblings) and their parents. Many more samples are needed to ensure the success of this study. 

HOW CAN YOU HELP? 


We have completed our experimental part of this research study and we are currently in the data analysis stage and we are preparing the results for scientific publication. We are, however, still very interested in obtaining pedigrees and blood samples (to help us with our DNA analysis) from affected dogs and their relatives (whether the relatives are affected or unaffected). 

Dogs enrolled in this portion of the study should have had at least 3 episodes of collapse with exercise/excitement. It is very important that we not include in this portion of the study dogs that do not really have EIC (ie they have some other reason for the collapse). All dogs enrolled in this portion of the study should therefore have had a full veterinary evaluation to rule out other causes of collapse. This should include: 

Physical examination: normal (no muscle atrophy or pain in back, joints or muscles) 
Neurologic examination: normal (normal gait and reflexes) 
Cardiovascular auscultation, ECG, thoracic radiographs and cardiac ultrasound: normal 
Hematologic and biochemical evaluation of blood : normal 
ACTH Stimulation test (to rule out hypoadrenocorticism): normal 

If you have a dog who meets these criteria and appears to have collapse with exercise/excitement that fits the description of EIC, please send: 
(1) a description of your dog?s episodes and a summary of veterinary evaluation 
(2) a copy of your dog's 3 generation pedigree 
(3) a blood sample collected by your veterinarian 
(4) The attached DNA submission form (filled out) 

to: 
Canine Exercise Intolerance Project 
Jim Mickelson and Ned Patterson 


NOTE: All information provided is kept strictly confidential. 

DNA SUBMISSION FORM - AFFECTED DOG 
PLEASE FILL OUT THIS FORM AND TAKE TO YOUR VET FOR SAMPLE 

Researchers at the Western College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Saskatchewan and at the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Minnesota are involved in a research program investigating Exercise Induced Collapse in Labrador Retrievers. 

???????????? a dog owned by ???????????? appears to be affected by this condition. 

We would like for you to collect and send a sample for DNA analysis to our laboratory in Minnesota from this dog. This requires 6 to 8 mls of blood collected in EDTA. After placing the blood in the tube, gently rock the tube(s) a few times to distribute the anticoagulant. The sample should be refrigerated and mixed at least once daily until shipping. It is better to ship on a Monday?Wednesday rather than at the end of the week. Do NOT ship on a Friday. Sample must arrive at the lab within 5 days of collection. CALL THE LAB TO LET THEM KNOW IT IS COMING ON THE DAY YOU SEND IT. 

Label the tube with the dog's name. and the owners name and AFFECTED. The blood sample should be packed in a small insulated container with one or more cool packs. Must be kept cool but not frozen. Ship by overnight/one-day delivery (FEDEX) to: 

Canine Exercise Intolerance Project 
c/o: Jim Mickelson and Ned Patterson 
Canine Neuromuscular Diseases lab, University of Minnesota 
Veterinary Teaching Hospital, 1352 Boyd Avenue, Bldg 371 
St. Paul, MN,55108. Phone: 612-624-5322 

Include a copy of this form with the sample. 
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU INCLUDE A COPY OF THE DOG'S PEDIGREE WITH THE SAMPLE!! 

Thank you for your help. 


DNA SUBMISSION FORM - RELATIVES OF AN AFFECTED DOG 
PLEASE FILL OUT THIS FORM AND TAKE TO YOUR VET FOR SAMPLE 

Researchers at the Western College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Saskatchewan and at the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Minnesota are involved in a research program investigating Exercise Induced Collapse in Labrador Retrievers. 

???????????? a dog owned by ???????????? appears to be affected by this condition. 

It is important that we test relatives of affected dogs in order to try to find the genetic cause of EIC. (use additional forms if required) 

Name of dog Name of owner Relation to affected dog 
indicate for each 
dog if aff or unaff 

_____________ Aff/Unaff__________________________________________ 

_____________ Aff/Unaff __________________________________________ 

_____________ Aff/Unaff _________________________________________ 
Aff = this dog has had at least one episode of collapse with exercise or excitement 
Unaff: This dog has never shown evidence of wobbliness or collapse 

We would like for you to collect and send a sample for DNA analysis to our laboratory in Minnesota from each of these dogs. This requires 6 to 8 mls of blood collected in EDTA. After placing the blood in the tube, gently rock the tube(s) a few times to distribute the anticoagulant. The sample should be refrigerated and mixed at least once daily until shipping. It is better to ship on a Monday?Wednesday rather than at the end of the week. Do NOT ship on a Friday. Sample must arrive at the lab within 5 days of collection. CALL THE LAB TO LET THEM KNOW IT IS COMING ON THE DAY YOU SEND IT. 
Label the tube with the dog's name. and the owners name and AFFECTED or UNAFFECTED. The blood sample should be packed in a small insulated container with one or more cool packs. Must be kept cool but not frozen. Ship by overnight/one-day delivery (FEDEX) to: 

Canine Exercise Intolerance Project c/o: Jim Mickelson and Ned Patterson 
Canine Neuromuscular Diseases lab, University of Minnesota 
Veterinary Teaching Hospital, 1352 Boyd Avenue, Bldg 371 
St. Paul, MN,55108. Phone: 612-624-5322 

Include a copy of this completed form with the sample as well as a copy of the dog's pedigree 

Thank you for your help.


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## Doc E (Jan 3, 2003)

As I have said a couple times............. I really think that when the EIC test becomes available, it's going to make CNM look like a pimple on an elephant's ass.



.


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## Justone' (Mar 28, 2005)

*LOOK AT DR ED ON EIC!!!!*

IT IS SCARY/HORRIFYING TO EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS BEING WORSE THAN MYOPATHY, EH!!!!!!!
WHAT DO WE/"I' DO?????
I AM TRYING TO MAKE GOOD, ON SOMETHING WE CANNOT EVEN PROVE?
ANYTHING IT TAKES TO BECOME AN HONEST/REPEATABLE BREEDER, I WILL DO FOR THESE PUPS/OWNERS...............
JUSTONE


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

Where is a good source for the "EIC cocktail"? The ingredients are carnitine, CoEnzyme Q10, Riboflavin, 7-KETO.


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## Annette (Mar 21, 2004)

*EIC Study*

I used to get my supplies from Erins Edge. htpp://erinsedge.zoovy.com/
Good luck.


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

With the L-Carnitine dosage it suggests using "50mg/kg 2X/day". I don't understand what 50mg/kg means. Can someone explain this please.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

bandcollector said:


> With the L-Carnitine dosage it suggests using "50mg/kg 2X/day". I don't understand what 50mg/kg means. Can someone explain this please.


1 kg=2.2 pounds. 
If you dog weighs 80# he is 36.3 kg and will need @ 1800mg twice a day.


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

ErinsEdge said:


> 1 kg=2.2 pounds.
> If you dog weighs 80# he is 36.3 kg and will need @ 1800mg twice a day.


Doesn't a slash mean division and not multiplication?

50mg/36.3 kg = ??? 1.3774104683195592286501377410468

Shouldn't it read per or X to get 1815?




Been a long time since Algebra regards,


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2005)

bandcollector said:


> ErinsEdge said:
> 
> 
> > 1 kg=2.2 pounds.
> ...


If the dose is stated as 50 mg/kg, that means you give 50 mg for every kg that your dog weighs. Yes, the slash means divide, in other words, it's in the denominator of the fraction. You want those kg units to cancel out and be left with nothing but mg. When you multiply the fraction by what is in the denominator, in this case mg, then mg is in both the numerator and denominator, and by division they cancel out.

(mg/kg)xkg = (mgxkg)/kg = mg

So say your dog weighs 36.3 kg:

50 (mg/kg) x 36.3 kg = 1815 mg.

Hope this makes sense...


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

Sadly we have an EIC dog, a 2 1/2 year old yellow male of very good F/T breeding. He fits the profile perfectly, lean muscular athletic, very high rolling dog. He showed the potential to do whatever you want, except for this. He has a couple of the dogs in his line that are "quietly known or suspected" of passing this on, and we won't get into who they are. 
He can stand only about 8 minutes of drill work and it's to the point that we are unable to air him with other dogs because it causes an episode.
If you have never seen this, it is scary ugly and heart breaking.
He is about to be nuetered and we will probably have to try to locate him to a one dog, noncompetitive, nonhunting home just to safeguard his survival. We are a multi dog, hunting, competitive household and the everyday environment here is potentially deadly for him. Needless to say he is not allowed in the water unless it is in our pool and we are right with him.
We need a test for this, and when we get one and the cards begin to fall on the table we are going to see EIC make CNM look like a mosquito bite.


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## hhlabradors (Mar 18, 2005)

David,

What is the outlook for quality of life and mental health for a high rolling, talented field trial dog in a home such as you'd be placing this young dog in? What would he be like to live with for a family just looking for a pet?


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

He tones down and is actually good in the house, that will not be a problem. He has been in training and with proper management can continue on a limited basis. Any type of competitive career is out of the question. Common airing is a definite no-no for him as he becomes active enough and is mentally stimulated to the point that he will have an episode within 15 minutes. Mental triggers are more of an issue with him than physical exertion alone and being out with other dogs combines the two with bad results.
He is a very affectionate dog and pleasant to be around, locating him with someone preferably that I know, and who understands his situation is key. Barring that he will stay with us, and train carefully within his limits to keep him happy. It's tough for him to have so much activity going on around him and not being able to participate. Either way we will hold his best interests at heart.


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## 2Blackdogs! (Apr 6, 2006)

it would be interesting to try that vitamin cocktail at least for a while to see if and how much it helps.-especially while you have a good gage of how much it takes to trigger an episode. If you do try it please share the results so that more is learned by all over time.


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

That has been discussed and our vet is looking into it. He might be a good candidate given that his situation is so predictable. If we ty it I will post the results good or bad.


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## bandcollector (Oct 9, 2003)

Has EIC or anything similar been seen in other retriever breeds besides labs?


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## Dogguy (Aug 22, 2005)

Yes a similar condition is being seen in Boder Collies.


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## Rig (Mar 1, 2005)

bandcollector said:


> Has EIC or anything similar been seen in other retriever breeds besides labs?


I've seen posts in other forums asking about it in Chesapeakes and Tervurens because the owner saw the same symptoms in their dogs of those breeds. A training buddy told she had an obedience student with a Golden who had it. There is an older vet magazine article about two Springer littermates with it. My vet said she had a client with a Pointer who had it. I knew a pit bull who did the classic EIC collapse thing.

Rig


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

Our dog started on the "cocktail" yesterday, this will not be cheap. We are using 7-keto, L-carnitine, riboflavin and co-enzyme Q-10. We'll see what happens.


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## obxdog (Aug 21, 2004)

*Cocktail*

I have a 2 year old blf who had her first collapse at 6 months. Vet could not diagnose because by the time we got to him she was fine. Talked to my daughter about it, who is a vet, and she mentioned EIC and Dr Taylors study. After 4 more collapses by the time she was 1 year old, and eliminating any other cause I put her on the B2, Carnitine and co-q10 cocktail. Since then she has had only had 1 near collapse ( you can see it coming) and it was a brutally hot day. I also keep a plastic kid's pool full of water for her to jump in if it is a hot day. She ran in derby's this spring, but I would never run her in any stake if temperature was too hot. Did not put her on the 7 keto since I understand it is a steroid derivitive. It is a heartbreaker to have this happen because this dog has so much potential that will never be realized. Hope this information helps if you are thinking of trying the cocktail. I have found best prices at www.puritan.com.


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## 2Blackdogs! (Apr 6, 2006)

Puritan is also running a buy 1 get 2 free sale on msot stuff right now.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

*Update after a year*

I recently got the following up-date from Katie Minor of the U of MN vet school:


> We have tested (with quite good coverage) most of the dog genome.
> We have had several areas give us hot spots that we are trying to further
> follow up on. We believe our major difficulties lie in a) not having
> enough full sib pairs with both affected and unaffected dogs b) not being
> ...


If you can offer samples, especially of littermates with one affected and another not, please contact [email protected]


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

I heard a rumour today, may be fact??, from a little birdie, a trusted little birdie all the same.

THAT THE UNIVERSITY OF SASKATCHEWAN WAS RELEASING A GENETIC TEST FOR EIC IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS. 

Is this true??????????????????


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

When I looked through the research listings, I would guess that this is the point of interest:
Taylor, Susan
- Hyperthyroidism in cats
- Calcium metabolism in hypercalcemia and malignancy
- Pharmacologic alteration of mucociliary clearance in dogs and cats
- Muscle disease in dogs


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

*Same Study*

The Universities of Minnesota and Saskatchewan are collaborating on the EIC study. The note from Katie Minor above was the latest news on 15 Aug 2006.

The test would be a marvelous advance in breeding Labs, but it seems to be a rumor that it's almost ready. Folks need to send in those samples.


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Aussie said:


> I heard a rumour today, may be fact??, from a little birdie, a trusted little birdie all the same.
> 
> THAT THE UNIVERSITY OF SASKATCHEWAN WAS RELEASING A GENETIC TEST FOR EIC IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
> 
> Is this true??????????????????


Julie,

Now go sit in the corner and behave yourself! 

FOM


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

I sincerely wish to apologise, if my source was incorrect. 

I had heard contractural negotiations were currently taking place. 

Sorry if I was misinformed.


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## goldeneye (Apr 7, 2004)

I have also heard that a test is close to being released. 

Lets hope it is true!


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## EdA (May 13, 2003)

goldeneye said:


> Lets hope it is true!


Most of all, let's hope it is accurate


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## Emily Faith (Feb 5, 2003)

Since all they were doing was collecting blood samples and pedigrees, at least where Susan Taylor was concerned, I would seriously doubt that any test could result. If so, based on my conversation with them, I wouldn't give two cents for any test that resulted from their so-called testing. The work that has been done on EIC does not come close to approaching what was done on myopathy before a test was developed. A couple of years ago, I was told that they didn't have the funding to come up with research necessary for even figuring out what it was, much less how to test for it.

Also, if a test was being "close to being released" why hasn't there been anything published about it? I guess it all depends on what is meant by "close". Sounds like a way to prolong 15 minutes of fame to me.


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

*Slander?*

Please read the up-date by Katie Minor of the U of MN vet school that I posted on 15 August. U Mn and U Sask are collaborating on this study. It is not an attempt to bash anyone or gain false "fame."

I am not a geneticist, but it is my understanding that the way genes are located is by tests on the blood samples. Affected and un-affected littermates are especially helpful in this regard because they would be similar except at the locii that causes a genetic problem.

In the case of CNM the canine funding waxed and waned over the years and there was a very fortunate breakthru in better funded human genetics in France that turned out to help locate the CNM problem in dogs. I believe they used blood samples to finalize the canine test.


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## Emily Faith (Feb 5, 2003)

I contacted the people who are doing the collecting of blood samples and offered to forward a sample of blood from an unaffected, alleged sire of an affected dog and I was told "no thank you".

I did go back and read the update for August 15 and that was consistent with what I was told about the state of any research being done. As the author indicates, they have a number of difficulties coming up with the source of the problem and most definitely does not say there is any test in the foreseeable future. I don't see how it can ever be a possiblity if they never have sufficient funds to examine dogs who are allegedly affected and do test breedings so that they can definitely determine a mode of inheritance, if it is "inherited", in the sense that CNM is inherited.

I have got to believe that here are a lot of samples that have been sent to them of dogs that don't even have what they consider to be EIC. For example, I have talked with someone who has a dog they think has EIC, upon questioning them, it was pretty clear the dog was having grand mal seizure (unconscious, losing control of bowels and bladder, etc.), but you would never be able to convince them that it was anythng other than EIC. Now if this dog's owner sent in a blood sample and a pedigree, insisting their dog belonged in that study, since they don't do any rel exam or testing on the dog, now they have a blood sample of a dog included in their inventory that shouldn't be there. How reliable could that be? I am happy to see that the universities that are receiving blood samples acknowledge that this, along with other things, are problems with their research.


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## Smokin Joe (Sep 1, 2005)

*Just a question on EIC*

I have a pup that I beleive to have this - and if you have not seen it you are lucky. My vet has indicated that certain High Caliber dogs may carry this and named a few that were believed to be common to this - some would be Hall of fame level dogs and many were in my pups pedigree. Why is it that in all the posts they are referred to but never named. I am not saying that we bash or lay blame, but some of that information may be helpful as we buy or breed dogs in the future. It may not change what or how we go about getting dogs, but we would at least have some background information to make descisions. From reading the above posts it is clear that there are many questions to yet be answered and obviously many skeptics to the tests being done, but had I known then what I know know there are a few dogs I may have shied away from until these questions are answered. I am sure that this will spark a lot of diverse responses and I am not trying to label certain dogs, but the point of this site is to share information so we all may be more informed. The goal here is for owners to be happy with thier pups and make them the best they can be. Just a question


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## Rig (Mar 1, 2005)

I agree with you Joe, but many on this list won't. I bet your post nets some preachy responses about not ruining the reputation of great dogs etc. etc. 

The information needs to be accompanied by understanding of what it does, and does not, mean. If EIC is an autosomal recessive, as the researchers are saying it *probably* is, then namesespecially when deeper in your pedigree than the Dad and Mom level, don't mean anything other than "statistically the odds are..." That's because a carrier does not pass on a copy of the gene to every offspring. So you could have four known carrier grandparents and still not have the EIC gene in either parent. 

Also, you could have two carrier parents and the pup you select from the litter has only a 25% chance of being affected with EIC. (And a 50% chance of carrying the gene although not himself affected, and a 25% chance of being totally clear.)

If either parent has PRODUCED an EIC puppy then you know it carries the gene. However, if the other parent doesn't carry the EIC gene then your puppy cannot possibly be affected with EIC (although he might carry the gene).

RIG


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

This is a very delicate matter, in deed. Unfortunatly, not everyone closest to this problem is being honest. There are many owners that KNOW that their dog has produced dogs with EIC. Why do they not come forth? Why haven't I seen anyone whom owns NFC/CFC WHOM EVER come forth and simply say "my dog is a carrier" If it is true that this is a recessive gene then we should be fine with breeding this dog as long as we know the other dog was not a carrier. This would save many dogs and owners the suffering that comes along with this disease. Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. You know who you are. Is a few lost breedings worth the suffering that you are dishing out? JM.02

P.S. Thank you for not mentioning any names of dogs. We should give those dog owners the chance to tell us themselves. They are carrying a heavy burden!


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## SueLab (Jul 27, 2003)

Sheriff,

None of the breeders will ever come forth and say that their dog is a carrier...because the mode of inheritance has not been proven. It is only speculation as to how the trait is inherited. If it were a known fact, there would be a test.

Look at CNM. There are some stud owners (and bitch owners too - I would guess) who will not get their dogs tested and will continue to say that they don't trust the test or "whatever".


Sorry that you have a dog affected...I wish that all others would share information or quit breeding dogs that have thrown the trait with more than one mate until a test is available...but that will never happen


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## Jason Brion (May 31, 2006)

I don't have a pup that is effected. However, a friend of mine did. If it was I that had the pup their would have been many more questions that would have needed to be answered. Both, before and after the pup was diagnosed.

Suelab, your comments are a very sad reality. I know your just being realistic. However, I read on this forum about how breaders are trying to better the bread. With this comment I hope they understand that this doesn't just mean that thier dogs can perform at a high level or look the standerd. It means that they are doing their best not to pass on known genetic problems inside the bread.

Anyone that has been around a pup effected. And still does not speak up in my mind should be punished by the registries. Why doesn't (or has) the AKC, etc taken a stand on such things? :roll:


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Has anyone heard anything lately? Maybe someone who has been in contact with the person doing the study can contact them and see if they will post and update for us??

Thanks


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## Katie Minor (Sep 19, 2005)

*EIC study at the University of Minnesoat*

Hi everyone,
It's been a while since I've posted. I wanted to let you all know, thanks to the help of the many who have already donated samples, that we are VERY close to determing the gene that is responsible for EIC. We have narrowed our search down to a small segment of a single chromosome (dogs have 38 ). We've also obtained additional funding from the AKC to follow up on this area. All data so far indicates that we are in the right area, and additional sample have only served to verify that we are indeed in the right spot. Alas, the area is quite gene dense, so we have a lot of candidates to sift through. 
At this time, we would be quite interested in obtaining additional affected FAMILIES of labs (mom, dad, and affected and unaffected sibs), as well as samples from other breeds that appear to have the same condition. These samples would serve to help us determine if there was a single founder.
Just thought you'd like to hear the good news. Hopefully we'll have more to follow sooner rather than later.

Katie Minor, RN
University of Minnesota
Canine Genomics Lab


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

I had a dog that produced a pup with EIC-like symptoms in every litter she had.

Further testing would need to be required to see if that is in fact what the pups suffered from (vs similar disorders).

She was bred to a different male each time and I would bet that it won't be recessive at all. My guess is it would turn out to be dominant. 

Until the mode of inheritance is actually determined AND having a proven way of determining whether a dog in fact suffers from EIC (right now they rule out other diseases in order to come to the diagnosis), outing "carriers" would be out of line.

EIC has certainly become a catch-phrase and I know that it is prevalent, but we have a lot of vets determining a dog has EIC without extensive diagnostic testing.

WRL


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

Im not sure I agree with that logic. With all due respect, why would you keep breeding her???


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## Keith Stroyan (Sep 22, 2005)

WRL said:


> I had a dog that produced a pup with EIC-like symptoms in every litter she had.
> 
> Further testing would need to be required to see if that is in fact what the pups suffered from (vs similar disorders).


Did you send blood samples to U of MN (with EIC listed as 'possible')?


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## WRL (Jan 4, 2003)

Sniper said:


> Im not sure I agree with that logic. With all due respect, why would you keep breeding her???


I didn't.

In her first litter, I wasn't notified until the pups were 3 years old. 

In her second litter, I was not notified until they were 2 years old.

All three of the "suspected pups" were mentioned to me within a 3 month time span.

I emailed the study and they said were not taking more samples at that time.

WRL


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## Sniper (Dec 13, 2005)

I knew better.........but I had to ask.

Thanks for the clarification........looks better for you too!


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## Aussie (Jan 4, 2003)

O, it would be so nice to have the mode of inheritance clarified. 

A further link which may interest:

http://medicine.ucsd.edu/vet_neuromuscular/cases/2006/oct06.html


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## Cindy Read (Nov 13, 2004)

*EIC*

Back in the late 80's I had a stud who in his very first litter produced puppies with myopathy, EIC (didn't know what is was at the time) two puppies with cleftpallets, and one with hip dyaplasia. How is that for a bad combination???? The male puppies had the suspected EIC, the bitches mypoathy and the one with one bad hip was my stud puppy. With the exception of the bad hip the only normal puppy in the litter. Come to find out his dam was the myopathy carries and who knows about the rest. The only good thing was I bred him to all my other bitches (test breeding), sold all puppies (which were all normal) on spay/neuter contracts . Since then I have had 2 generations clear of CNM. 

Cindy Read


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