# HRC Fall Grand



## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Just heard the judges/flight line up for tomorrow: 

A goes to Tritronics Water with Mike Botts and Dean Roy
B goes to Purina Land with Mike Dittrich and Mike Ortego
C goes to Avery Water with James Lacaze and Rusty Wismer
D goes to Gunners Up Land with Glenn Stelly and Jim Reichman

Good luck to all handlers and dogs!!


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## Mike Boufford (Sep 28, 2004)

Anyone who has a problem with that judging line up is on some serious drugs. Good luck to all.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Site Organization for the tests - http://www.huntingretrieverclub.org/GRAND/2010FALL/images/Site Organization.pdf

Does anyone have a description of tests setup? It sounds like flight A on Tritronics water is really rough - 22 out of the first 40 dogs dropped. But accordingly, it has been the dogs taking themselves out - which shows a lot for the test and the time put into setting it up. Mike Witt posted this pic on FB of TT water.....

Any other updating info would be appreciated!


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Mike Boufford said:


> Anyone who has a problem with that judging line up is on some serious drugs. Good luck to all.


Just give it a couple series Mike. You know someone will complain.

Two of the judges are in my club. The only one I don't know is Dean Roy.


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## hotel4dogs (Aug 2, 2010)

is there someplace we can look to see who has passed/been dropped so far?
thanks


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## Keven (Oct 25, 2003)

hotel4dogs said:


> is there someplace we can look to see who has passed/been dropped so far?
> thanks


You can find Call Backs (whenever they're posted) and all other stuff here: http://www.hrcgrand.com


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## Dick Jennings (Mar 19, 2007)

Dean Roy is region 1 rep, great guy, and very experienced HRC person. The HRC website has a linked to the callbacks. Good luck to everybody running!


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Callbacks are up! Also, a link to a video of the TT setup http://video.yahoo.com/watch/8361160/22363717


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## Jeff Kolanski (Dec 9, 2005)

Mike Boufford said:


> Anyone who has a problem with that judging line up is on some serious drugs. Good luck to all.


I'd be a little bit concerned with that Botts guy!!


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

Can someone help me read the Call Back report? I'm trying to follow a few dogs, and they have a yes in column 1, but column 2 is blank. Does this mean they were scratched or something? It looks like there are a lot of dogs with yesses in column 1 but nothing in column 2.


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## Splash_em (Apr 23, 2009)

Second day callbacks haven't been posted yet. It will be filled in then.


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

Oh, thanks. Then what am I looking at? The latest one has a lot of dogs with column 2 filled in. But several (mostly on page 4) with column 2 blank.


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## DDanielson (Mar 24, 2008)

If they had a yes on series one then they probably did not finish the second series. Should see a yes or no on series two tomorrow.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

If the column is blank, then the dog hasn't run yet. After all have completed the 1st test, if there is a no the the next column is blank, that is because they have failed and do not get to run again.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

whitefoot said:


> Oh, thanks. Then what am I looking at? The latest one has a lot of dogs with column 2 filled in. But several (mostly on page 4) with column 2 blank.


Some of those were remaining to run the 2nd series today. Some others had a y es for the first series, but wasn't filled in at all for the 2nd, while further on there were more in the same flight that had updates so.......Not sure why that was, but will be completed soon.


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

Dogtrainer4God said:


> Some of those were remaining to run the 2nd series today. Some others had a y es for the first series, but wasn't filled in at all for the 2nd, while further on there were more in the same flight that had updates so.......Not sure why that was, but will be completed soon.


Ok. Thanks. So, do the dogs that didn't run on day 2 have to run twice on day 3?


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

whitefoot said:


> Ok. Thanks. So, do the dogs that didn't run on day 2 have to run twice on day 3?



If the test that they're scheduled to run next isnt backed up then, yes, they could possibly run twice in a day. From what Ive heard, they will be close to getting everybody caught up by the end of the day today.


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## Tim Fitzgerald (Jan 22, 2009)

Can someone direct me to a link where I can at least find out what type of test is running that day IE land / water...Of course a description of that series or diagram would be nice. Also is there a daily blog or anything that you can follow. From what I can see the HRC site is lacking in these areas. Im not asking for it to be covered like the national(field trial), but a little more would be nice for us HRC supporters;-)


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

skeeter1 said:


> Can someone direct me to a link where I can at least find out what type of test is running that day IE land / water...Of course a description of that series or diagram would be nice.


*The www.hrcgrand.com index page shows what each flight is running on a particular day. You might have seen the video linked to earlier in this thread(tritronics water) and (Gunners Up Land). I also just seen that they posted a video of the Avery water series. 

If I am reading the index page correctly, TT water needs to finish 25 dogs left from flt B today(2nd series -- should have finished by noon) and then will get going on 41 dogs from Flt C - test 3. 
Gunners Up land has 22 dogs with flt B to run today (3rd series). 
Avery has 9 Flight D dogs(test 2) and then will start on 40 Flight A - Test 3 - dogs. 
Purina will begin with 38 dogs from Flight "D" test three.*
​


> Also is there a daily blog or anything that you can follow. From what I can see the HRC site is lacking in these areas. Im not asking for it to be covered like the national(field trial), but a little more would be nice for us HRC supporters:wink:


*
No, unfortunately not. That would an awesome addition, but no, there is nothing like that. They had something similar last year though, a page with a drawing of setups, info, etc. But didn't have the videos. maybe a trade-off this year?  Now Kevin Hester did create a page on FB that has a fair amount of information, stats, check out HRC Grand.*


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## Tim Fitzgerald (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks dogtrainerforGod. Exactly what I was looking for


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## greencaps (May 30, 2009)

Thanks for the videos! My little man is running the Avery water test today from Flight A.


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## Brian Skibicki (Feb 23, 2008)

greencaps said:


> Thanks for the videos! My little man is running the Avery water test today from Flight A.


It is a mud hole in the middle of a cut corn field. My dog ran it yesterday and came out looking like he had wallowed in green duck weed and mud. But he passed with 2's. Good luck.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

18 from B going to the 4th. Sorry, do not have individual #'s.

My phone has been blowing up with field trial and Grand related result texts since Sunday


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

Cat Squirrel said:


> 18 from B going to the 4th. Sorry, do not have individual #'s.
> 
> My phone has been blowing up with field trial and Grand related result texts since Sunday


Does that include the 25 dogs in B that didn't run test 2 yesterday? Were they able to run both 2 and 3 today?


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

That is a total of 18 out of the entire flight B.

Janet


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## greencaps (May 30, 2009)

Boudreaux went out on the water blind in the third. Still thats not too shabby for a two year old. A black and white on his first trip to the big show.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Yes. All dogs have run in B. 
18 to Avery water tomorrow.


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## Riverdog SC (Oct 28, 2008)

I just made it home from the Grand. Ran first and second series...... but didn't carry enough points to make it to the third. They were great setups that tested the dogs very well and were judged very fairly...... IMO....... This is the first Grand that I've run/handled my dog in, and when I came off the line, I felt like I knew what the outcome was....... no surprises for me. Nothing tricky about the tests. VERY well placed marks and well thought out blinds. It was all about marking, memory, and control..... just as it should be.

Well done!! I just wish I could have played longer. 

Word on the street is that 93 dogs out of 400'ish are going to the 4th series tomorrow.

BTW: I ran the Avery water test on day 1 and the Gunner's Up land test on second day.


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## whitefoot (Aug 19, 2010)

The new list is up:
http://www.huntingretrieverclub.org/GRAND/2010FALL/images/Test 3 Web Report.pdf


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## Tim Fitzgerald (Jan 22, 2009)

could someone explain why the dogs run different series on different days. Seems to me that say out of the 5 tests, if the "avery water test" is the toughest and dog A is in a flight that runs it the first day, gets dropped and owner and handler go packing to the house on day one. but then say that on the other hand, he didn't do avery water to the last day, then he would be like"we did awesome, got dropped on avery water in the fourth series....?

Am I understanding this correctly. Someone pls shed some light for this newby


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Tim,

The Grand is huge...sometimes well over 400 dogs. They have to split them into 4 groups (called Flights). Where each Flight begins is luck of the draw.
A representative of each Flight will draw a card, etc and they rotate from there.
Sometimes you get lucky and have perfect conditions for a hard test, other times...you don't.

And yes...you do see that ("made it to the third series", etc.) but it doesn't mean a thing since a dog might have encountered a buzz saw of a test with his Flight on day one or had some of the easier tests first.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

*65 % of the dogs which ran series 1 passed, 60 % of the dogs which ran series 2 passed. 401 dogs took part in the first series, 263 took part in the second series and 159 went on to series three. 
*

*58% of the dogs from series 3 are going on to the 4th. 93 to face their final land or water test tomorrow. Then for all those that pass it will be on to the upland on Wednesday.

Thanks to Carol Ford for these stats! fyi, 23% of the dogs entered are going to the 4th series.
*


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## Noah (Apr 6, 2003)

I second what Cat Squirrel said. Also conditions change and the killer test may get a lot easier, but another test gets way harder. Also, cover gets knocked down, but scent gets built up. Dogs running first thing in the morning and last thing in evening also find it more difficult. There is usually a big cut after the third series... a dog gets by with "sticks", a 1 and a 1 in one of the first 2 series and gets 1's in the third and gets dropped.


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## Keven (Oct 25, 2003)

On Tuesday, 10/12, Series 4 will be:

Flight A (27 dogs) will run the Avery Water Test

Flight B (18 dogs) will run the Gunners Up Land Test

Flight C (15 dogs) will run the Purina Land Test

Flight D (33 dogs) will run the Tri-Tronics Water Test

Blog coming next Grand all ... and more videos, diagrams (with volunteer efforts), etc. But this time, kudos to Carol Ford for getting the "meat" to us so timely! And to Shane Olean for the videos he's doing along with whoever is doing the "official" ones at the HRC site.

Sure wish we had a video or something of the Purina Land Test.


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Unfortunately, I don't think it is just hard tests. I think a lot of dogs get dropped for arbitrary standards. Every dog that passes the grand is a great dog and I don't want to take anything away from them but from what I have heard from the last two Grands a lot of dogs get dropped for things are nothing short of a joke. 

I will hold the name but a dog was dropped in the second that was handled by one of the top pros because they lined (a very straight line) the blind and it showed a lack of control? Huh? Another test was dropping dogs if when walking to the bucket the dogs shoulders passed the handlers legs and if the dog sat before the handler did? Some people say well even though those dropped dogs might have been great dogs but they weren't at "Grand Level Control". What exactly is that? The problem is that there is no definition of it, so every judge kind of makes up their own idea of it? How is anyone suppose to train for that? It ends up being random and dogs that pick up every mark and pick up the blind nicely get dropped for meaningless infractions.

Plus the pass rate seems so low. Flight C only has 15 of 103 dogs going pasting to the 3rd? Seems to me that a few judges have decided that only a certain number of dogs are going to pass. How else can you explain how it just happens to be right around 17-20 percent then last 4 Grands. Someone said to me the other day that "Going there I need to accept the fact that every dog can be drop, but if the dogs do the work shouldn't the judges be willing to pass everyone of my dogs as well?" Thought that this was a fair point.


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## CanAmMan (Sep 28, 2007)

Ah yes, the mythical beast known as "Grand Level Control". Everyone has heard of it, but no one can define it. Should "Grand Level Control" be anyhting more than what is expected from a finished dog on a weekend test, or should there be a bit higher expectation, after all it is the Grand? 

I find it hard to believe that a dog was dropped for lining the blind, there had to be more to it than that, and there are the stories every year about how many dogs were dropped for beating the handler to the bucket, which I again I think are way over blown, but I know people have been given "that isn't Grand Level Control" as a reason for being dropped. I sure would love to see the HRC define and standardize exactly what "Grand Level Control" is. With it being so subjective to each judge as is; it would be nice if everyone, from the judges to the handlers were on the same page.

Good luck to all the dogs still playing.


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Nate_C said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think it is just hard tests. I think a lot of dogs get dropped for arbitrary standards. Every dog that passes the grand is a great dog and I don't want to take anything away from them but from what I have heard from the last two Grands a lot of dogs get dropped for things are nothing short of a joke.
> 
> I will hold the name but a dog was dropped in the second that was handled by one of the top pros because they lined (a very straight line) the blind and it showed a lack of control? Huh? Another test was dropping dogs if when walking to the bucket the dogs shoulders passed the handlers legs and if the dog sat before the handler did? Some people say well even though those dropped dogs might have been great dogs but they weren't at "Grand Level Control". What exactly is that? The problem is that there is no definition of it, so every judge kind of makes up their own idea of it? How is anyone suppose to train for that? It ends up being random and dogs that pick up every mark and pick up the blind nicely get dropped for meaningless infractions.
> 
> Plus the pass rate seems so low. Flight C only has 15 of 103 dogs going pasting to the 3rd? Seems to me that a few judges have decided that only a certain number of dogs are going to pass. How else can you explain how it just happens to be right around 17-20 percent then last 4 Grands. Someone said to me the other day that "Going there I need to accept the fact that every dog can be drop, but if the dogs do the work shouldn't the judges be willing to pass everyone of my dogs as well?" Thought that this was a fair point.


There are so many things that happen at the grand, people get dropped when they don't feel they should have....when some one says they "HEARD" from so and so that they got dropped for lining the blind, well I just don't buy it sorry. There is usualy WAY more to the story. 

If you have been to the grand then that is great, if you haven't then I encourage you to go, watch and maybe learn why dogs are dropped at the grand. They offer a handlers seminar the Friday morning before each grand starts, it has helped to clear up a lot of those Gray areas that seem to filter down.  

I know many people that have judged the grand and have had a ton of time to ask them questions, I have learned a whole lot from those conversations. I have also run the grand and know first hand that what will get you buy on a weekend test just will not fly at The Grand. It is a showcase of our dogs and by the fourth series the cream is truly coming to the top. 
Good luck to all that remain in the game, may your birds land belly up and your blinds be straight.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

Nate_C said:


> I will hold the name but a dog was dropped in the second that was handled by one of the top pros because they lined (a very straight line) the blind and it showed a lack of control? Huh? Another test was dropping dogs if when walking to the bucket the dogs shoulders passed the handlers legs and if the dog sat before the handler did?



Sorry, but I simply dont believe that.


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

I've judged two grands, which means I looked at between 500 to 600 dogs and out of all of those I never picked up a dog going to or from the bucket and only dinked a point on one or two that were really out there so there is your grand control. It just doesn't happen that often at that level. I will also say that as a handler when running a dog recollection of all aspects of a dogs performance can become fuzzy, the memory can be pretty selective. As a judge you see it all good or bad. I have tapped out a lot of my best friends at the grand, and being my best friends they understood that it was just business and knew enough about good dog work to know that I was coming before I ever got up.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Nate_C said:


> Seems to me that a few judges have decided that only a certain number of dogs are going to pass.


Okay, you actually believe that a judging team that has a grand committee member on each judging team is going to be "making up stories" (i.e lining the blind showed poor control) for what the dog did? A judging team that has some of the most experience that we have ever had at the grand, which also includes the president of HRC? I don't think so. 
I think the reason is that each test is a very solid, difficult test that every dog has the potential to need a handle on or mess up on the blind. Two handles and you are out. Just like Noah said, have a clean first, handle in the 2nd, have a very poor blind with a pair of sticks in the third - you are going home. Great dog yes, poor work 2 series out of 5, no.


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## S Goldby (Jan 20, 2008)

I just got back from The Grand. Went out on the 2nd series. I thought for my first grand the test were well thought out and bird placement was excellent. Tests were big and challenging and blinds were tough with alot of suction. I thought the judging was very fair and thought they allowed the dog to hunt before telling the handler to put the dog on it. If you are honest with yourself you will know if you dog did the work. I thought the judges made the right call by dropping my dog and I. If the Grand wasn't tough the title would mean nothing. Dogs and Handlers need to be perfect and thats what it is all about. If you haven't set on the bucket at the Grand then you really have no idea what it is all about and opinions are baseless.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

Both Grands I judged, the handlers were told that they and their dog were expected to come to the line TOGETHER. Saw dogs with shoulder @ handlers knee, to dogs with tail slightly in front of handlers knee, but they were together. Out of 2 Grands, gave one dog a marginal for control on walk in to line and failed one dog for lack of control on walk in to line out of 600 - 700 dogs I judged. From my experience, you don't see many control issues from the holding blind to the bucket on the walk in. As far as the dog failing for lack of control after lining the blind, no way. Often times, things look completely different from the gallery then it does from the line, and people in the gallery think that something looked good when in fact it wasn't. Just the nature of angle of view.


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## Brian Skibicki (Feb 23, 2008)

Bad calls happen at every level of testing. Rather then tarnish the organization in a public forum I think that it is better for the person(s) involved to communicate directly with the officers of that organization, and share their perspective and make positive suggestions as to how to make sure something does not happen to those who follow. With that said please do not kid yourself into thinking that "there is no possible way THAT actually happened! Not at the Grand!" Does it make it any easier to swallow, certainly not, but there is no "Grand" conspiracy even if there might be a few bad "Grand" calls. There are always good people involved in situations like those mentioned, and you know what? Stuff happens... State your case, stand your ground, and conduct yourself as a gentleman (or lady) just don't burn down the house in your effort to win the argument.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

The Grand is hard enough w/o "implications" of percentage fixing.

If anything, I think the flights get a little too big and judges feel a little rushed to move through dogs, so you might see dogs put on birds a little quickly, whereas on a normal day, they're allowed more time to work a bird. I've long advocated capping the flights at 75 or 80 dogs and adding flights as needed (yes, I know the grounds and additional judges arguements). 

That has to do with the format, not the judges.

For the record, I've passed Grands and been tapped out...


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Handlers Meeting at the Gunners Up test this morning - Fourth Series with Flight B. Thanks to Mike Witt for the pic.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

Nate_C said:


> but from what I have heard from the last two Grands a lot of dogs get dropped for things are nothing short of a joke.


Unfortunately, that sums it up right there, *FROM WHAT YOU'VE HEARD*. You know how things get skewed when it's passed by word of mouth. No offense, but if you weren't there, it's hard to know exactly what happened.


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## Bud (Dec 11, 2007)

"Another test was dropping dogs.... if the dog sat before the handler did?"

I've never heard of this, any truth to that?


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## CanAmMan (Sep 28, 2007)

Bud said:


> "Another test was dropping dogs.... if the dog sat before the handler did?"
> 
> I've never heard of this, any truth to that?


Highly doubtful that ever happened. There are rumors that swirl around every Grand.


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## Brandoned (Aug 20, 2004)

fsg said:


> If you haven't set on the bucket at the Grand then you really have no idea what it is all about and opinions are baseless.


Hmmmmmmm........... Is that a shot at someone or what?? lol


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Brandoned said:


> Hmmmmmmm........... Is that a shot at someone or what?? lol


Sounds to me like he knows what he is talking about. Until you have been there, trained a dog for the grand, and ran the grand, it is really hard to comprehend everything that goes into it and happens.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

7 dogs in Flight B to the 5th


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Cat Squirrel said:


> 7 dogs in Flight B to the 5th


Ouch!!!!!!!!!


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Just guessing....I bet it will be in the neighborhood of 45 dogs pass. 
About 11% :-x


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

These boards give people a chance to get into some debate and sure to shoot off at the mouth some. That is the fun of it. I have been to a grand, but only as an observer and have handled at local events only. But what I was expressing is my opinion based on the opinions of 4 other s that I would consider experts. I have had a goal of going to the grand for the past year or so but now I am reconsidering it because of these issue.

Each of these cases are first person accounts from the handler or owner and they were told by the judge why they failed. I guess they could have lied to me but I highly doubt that. One correction though. I said that dogs were being dropped for shoulders being past the handlers legs and sitting first. That was not clear. They were being marked down for it and accumulatively they were being dropped for "Control Issues"

I am not calling out the judges. Nothing I said tarnishes anyone's rep. When you are not give a specific standard you have to make up your own. So the standards vary among judges and some of the judges standards are inconsistent with what most people would consider a elite working dog. But you cannot blame them when they are not given a standards and if that standard is not inforced I also think that since their are limitation on the tests themselves for things like distance and complexity an undue focus is put on "control" as a differentiation between dogs.

Yes I absolutely believe that there is a an unsaid cap. Run a P-test on the variation between tests. Each grand you have a same size of around 400. Even if you assume that 50% of the field is not really read so they don't have a "Fair chance of passing" So you have a set of 200 that have a fair or random 50% shot at passing. To get 17.2% (2009 Fall) then 17.6% (2010 Spring) is almost statistically impossible. So either the people holding the Grand can put together 5 separate tests that are identically as hard to the first batch of 200 dogs as they are to a second completely different group of dogs six monthly later at a different location, or they kind of got it in their head that about 1/5 of the dogs should pass. I think the latter is more likely. 

Put these two things together and you get a lot of dogs being dropped for ticky-tac stuff.


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## Keven (Oct 25, 2003)

The official word:
"... a total of 60 dogs are going to the upland. A 16, B 8, C 14 and D 22."

Good luck to ALL the dogs and handlers! 

Kev


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Keven said:


> The official word:
> "... a total of 60 dogs are going to the upland. A 16, B 8, C 14 and D 22."
> 
> Good luck to ALL the dogs and handlers!
> ...


Hmmmm....I will revise it upward then to 54 dogs pass. Usually lose about 10% in the Upland.

Gosh, I wish I was there


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Nate_C said:


> These boards give people a chance to get into some debate and sure to shoot off at the mouth some.......


Nate_C: 

With all due respect, let me tell you.....The Grand doesn't need ticky-tacky sh*t. People think dogs go out because some judge has an axe to grind. That's not true.

Rather than realizing THEIR standard is low, they want to say the Judges standards are too high (hard, unfair, whatever)

Here is the deal....up YOUR standards, rather than looking for excuses. Prepare like you're running a Qualifying/Obedience Champion marathon with huge distractions. You do not get refusals, you do not get mediocre performances, you do not get unsafe gun work, or any other of 1,000 ways to go out...it is grueling. By far the hardest hunt test title to hang on a dog. (note, I am not comparing trial titles, they are different)

I base my opinion on actually running these things.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Nate_C,

Where do you live? We're hosting another Grand in a couple years and I could use some help for about 7 days. It will give you an inside look at what goes on.
Interested?


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

Cat Squirrel said:


> Nate_C:
> 
> With all due respect, let me tell you.....The Grand doesn't need ticky-tacky sh*t. People think dogs go out because some judge has an axe to grind. That's not true.
> 
> ...



Were in the world did I say judges have an axe to grind? I am talking about a problem with the standard and judging criteria not any particular judge. 

I am starting to get it though. The grand is perfect, and no one is allowed to question it. Or maybe only specific people are? I find it funny that no one questioned any specific examples I gave of discussed the numbers? Also, How will they know there standard is Low? Are they suppose to find out at the line on the second series when they get there second deduction and are dropped? What is the standard for a Grand. I will give you a more simple one, what is the standard for a Blind at the Grand in every series? If a Dog Lines a blind and ran within the V of your fingers is that a pass? Can you use angle backs or only Left and right backs. Show me where it is documented?


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

60 going to the 5th, not too far off of what went the last 2 Grands. The Grand Committee does not dictate how many dogs should fail and the judges certainly don't. Just like any other event, dogs are dogs and have good days and bad. There is also a lot of luck that plays into it, under different conditions (clouds, no clouds: wind, no wind, etc.) the tests become more difficult or less difficult. There is no need for and I definitely didn't see any "Pencil Whipping" at the 2 Grands I judged.

The judges attend a seminar Thursday morning, before they are paired & assigned their tests. The same seminar is available to the handlers on Friday. Now I say it is available, therefore it is not required that the handlers attend. Those that do (& have) that I talked too said that it was very helpful in explaining what is expected from the dogs and what the judges are looking for. Now judges are given standards to go by, but judging IS somewhat subjective. Sorry, part of it. The judges also have a Grand Committee person sitting there with them to make sure they are consistent & going according to the rules. The committee people do NOT tell the judges how to judge, but will let them know if they have made a mistake.

The Grand Committee and the Grand Judges are there FOR the handlers & dogs. They are not there to fail dogs, but they DO want to make sure that the dogs that pass live up to the picture of what a Grand Hunting Retriever Champion should be.
Nothing is perfect, but the Grand Committee does a pretty good job. There is always going to be disagreements on some calls, if you can not accept that, then perhaps the Grand is not for you.


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## Bill Davis (Sep 15, 2003)

I ran the TT water test on Saturday we lost 52 dogs the first day... Very well setup and judged. The blind was the test. Very fair blind of 138 yds. It was setup nicely with the land marks. Dogs that hung to the left shore got into trouble some recovered many did not. I hugged the right side and ever casy I gave was a left back towards the shore. Came away with a pair of two's. Ran the Purina Land on Sunday Did a good job on two of the three marks.(he would have lined a 400 yard blind on the middle mark) Not sure why he did not check up :-( Lined the real blind.
Ran the Avery water Monday The blind should have been the 5th bird P/U'd not the second .... Only heard one complaint Saturday concerning TT water. The dog got P/U after some control on the line issues and some control on the blind. 2 marginals does not cut it. Judges on the TT water gave handlers PLENTY of oppurtunities to recover.... Did hear a few handler in our flight on the Purina land and Avery water complain about a few things. As for me I had ZERO complaints. Very nice test  Man that second pass is tough to get. See ya all in the Spring


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## Bill Davis (Sep 15, 2003)

Nate_C said:


> These boards give people a chance to get into some debate and sure to shoot off at the mouth some. That is the fun of it. I have been to a grand, but only as an observer and have handled at local events only. But what I was expressing is my opinion based on the opinions of 4 other s that I would consider experts. I have had a goal of going to the grand for the past year or so but now I am reconsidering it because of these issue.
> 
> Each of these cases are first person accounts from the handler or owner and they were told by the judge why they failed. I guess they could have lied to me but I highly doubt that. One correction though. I said that dogs were being dropped for shoulders being past the handlers legs and sitting first. That was not clear. They were being marked down for it and accumulatively they were being dropped for "Control Issues"
> 
> ...


Nate in stead of listening to he said she said rumors go to a Grand and watch the dogs run talk to handlers and the judges when you can. 
As to the unsaid cap get real dude. I have also judged the Grand twice and not one time has a person come up to me and said "Bill you are passing to many dogs, drop 25 dog tomorrow".
Show some great dogs go out on day one, 52 in all, on the Tri Tronic water test. Only one handler complained. Dogs aren't perfect every time.
If a person told you that a judge told them that they were being marked down because the dog or handler sat first and the shoulders were past the handlers leg. I would not call them experts


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## Esylivin (May 5, 2008)

Just got back to the room. My dog Chief went out the 3rd day on the TT water blind. No axe to grind, my dog and myself just didn’t get it done as a team. Great test. All tests were very well thought out. This was my 5th Grand. I thought the judges gave the handlers a lot of leeway and did a great job. I invite everyone to come out and watch a grand, attend the seminars, talk to the handlers "Grand Control" is pretty much laid out and understood. In 5 Grands I have never seen the type of nit-picky issues discussed above. I think most of the handlers would say the same. .


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## HRC Dogs (Jan 16, 2010)

Nate_C said:


> These boards give people a chance to get into some debate and sure to shoot off at the mouth some. That is the fun of it. I have been to a grand, but only as an observer and have handled at local events only. But what I was expressing is my opinion based on the opinions of 4 other s that I would consider experts. I have had a goal of going to the grand for the past year or so but now I am reconsidering it because of these issue.
> 
> Each of these cases are first person accounts from the handler or owner and they were told by the judge why they failed. I guess they could have lied to me but I highly doubt that. One correction though. I said that dogs were being dropped for shoulders being past the handlers legs and sitting first. That was not clear. They were being marked down for it and accumulatively they were being dropped for "Control Issues"
> 
> ...



I have been blessed to have had the opportunity to judge a couple of Grands.

Your application of a P-Test based on "your 2 selected data points" is interesting...... but your conclusions for the contributing factors are unfounded and simply rhetoric.


On a side note..... Headed out to train for the 2014 Grand in Timbuktu


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

HRC Dogs said:


> Your application of a P-Test based on "your 2 selected data points" is interesting...... but your conclusions for the contributing factors are unfounded and simply rhetoric.


What an eloquent way to say "BS"...I AM impressed HRC Dogs 


Nate_C: 
I'm really not trying to be a jerk. It's just you're trying to read to much into it. The Grand eats dogs alive if you haven't properly prepared and even if you have properly prepared, there's still always luck (good or bad). There is no conspiracy or arbitrary limit on passes.


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## podunkccrs (Nov 3, 2008)

Oh and another potential Grand conspiracy....I think the judges hate non labs....or maybe it was because my curly totally biffed the water blind in the Tritronics test...
Next time we will be ready!
Sarah


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Good luck to the dawgs, owners and handlers still playing. On any given day a dog may be spectacularly GOOD or spectacularly Bad. I had my Grand experience and a change was made in the upland portion because of it. The ones that are out......Hug your dawg and go train........


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## Bill Davis (Sep 15, 2003)

Sundown49 aka Otey B said:


> Good luck to the dawgs, owners and handlers still playing. On any given day a dog may be spectacularly GOOD or spectacularly Bad. I had my Grand experience and a change was made in the upland portion because of it. The ones that are out......Hug your dawg and go train........


What change was that Otey?


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Where the dog can relocate to see the fall on the flush Bill. Bird went completely back toward judges and Billy shifted to see fall and was dropped.


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

I wasn't going to post on this but.....Famous last words so Nate

I ran my first Grand in 1996 and have seen the changes and the ups and downs of the Grand over the past 14 1/2 years. Heard all the Grand rumors that circulate after every one and sometimes during them.

Have dogs gotten bad calls at the Grand? Sure they have. The judges are human mistakes happen.

Is the Grand perfect? Absolutely not. There should always be room for improvement. But to quote a friend of mine, "There is more right with the Grand than wrong."

I have known a lot of the Grand judges and never have any of them shared with me that they were told to only pass a specific percentage of dogs. Several Grand judges have participated in this thread and told you the same thing.


As for "Grand control".....

Page 51 under Test Rules II. The Grand Hunting Retriever should demonstrate a prompt and precise response to all voice, whistle, and directional commands given by the Handler. In this hunt category, no unnecessary or excessive signals or commands should be needed to assist in the process of retrieving.

As for the numbers you stated previously. By my calculations the pass percentage at the Fall of 2009 was 74 of 404 which is 18.31% and the Spring of 2010 was 65 of 360 for 18.05%. Still close but you also stated different grounds and different dogs. Look at the dogs entered as a big portion of them are the same dogs running. Sure there are some that are new but alot are the same dogs. At best this one is going to be 14.96%.

JMHO

Janet


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## Nate_C (Dec 14, 2008)

jksboxofchocolates said:


> I wasn't going to post on this but.....Famous last words so Nate
> 
> I ran my first Grand in 1996 and have seen the changes and the ups and downs of the Grand over the past 14 1/2 years. Heard all the Grand rumors that circulate after every one and sometimes during them.
> 
> ...


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Nate
For what ever reason, dogs, judges, wind, sun, the Lord, the Grand runs on a pendulum, at least that was what I was told back in 2006. Why that is, I do not know are we heading towards the more difficult swing, it would be interesting to look at the percentages over the last 25 years. 
But judges are not given a percentage to pass / fail.


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## Noah (Apr 6, 2003)

Nate_C said:


> Each of these cases are first person accounts from the handler or owner and they were told by the judge why they failed.


I am callin BS on this...at THE GRAND a judge never tells the handler why he and is dog were judged the way they were. If the handler has a question he is only allowed to ask for a conference at the completion of callbacks. He is allowed 3 minutes to view the judges sheets in the presence of a Hunt test comittee member...and is not aloowed to ask questions and if they do...they will not be answered.


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## Bill Davis (Sep 15, 2003)

Sundown49 aka Otey B said:


> Where the dog can relocate to see the fall on the flush Bill. Bird went completely back toward judges and Billy shifted to see fall and was dropped.


Wasn't it because the handler blew another sit whistle when the dog moved? The dog could always reposition to see the bird, it's when the handler stops forward progress.......... As it was in Billy case


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

Okay, for your theory to be accurate all the judges would have to get together and decide which dogs and/or handlers they are going to let pass because the dogs rotate between judges. They do not know what the dogs were given on previous tests to know whether they are sitting with 2's or 1's coming to them. The judges sheets do not come over with the dogs of each flight so they don't know.

And I assure you that your statement of.......

"The problem is they are limited to how they can test the dogs marking and line running ability. I mean they cannot throw a 300 yard retired gun (not saying they should). I mean there is only so much you can do with bird placement and distractions. So what are they left with, "control"."

.....is also so inaccurate. If you think that only long retired gun are tough and there is "just so much" you can do with bird placement you have not run enough upper level hunt tests.

I am sorry but we are MILES apart on our opinions. The numbers go up and down. At a Mossy Oak Grand I believe in 2000 or 2001 12 dogs pass out of 302. That is 3.9%. Your own numbers showed 21, 25 then 18, then 18 then 14. Those show down up down same and down.

Again, JMHO.

Janet


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

SouthBryanLabs said:


> Bad calls happen at every level of testing. Rather then tarnish the organization in a public forum I think that it is better for the person(s) involved to communicate directly with the officers of that organization, and share their perspective and make positive suggestions as to how to make sure something does not happen to those who follow. With that said please do not kid yourself into thinking that "there is no possible way THAT actually happened! Not at the Grand!" Does it make it any easier to swallow, certainly not, but there is no "Grand" conspiracy even if there might be a few bad "Grand" calls. There are always good people involved in situations like those mentioned, and you know what? Stuff happens... State your case, stand your ground, and conduct yourself as a gentleman (or lady) just don't burn down the house in your effort to win the argument.


It was a pleasure to chat with you on this subject.


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## Bill Davis (Sep 15, 2003)

SouthBryanLabs said:


> Bad calls happen at every level of testing. Rather then tarnish the organization in a public forum I think that it is better for the person(s) involved to communicate directly with the officers of that organization, and share their perspective and make positive suggestions as to how to make sure something does not happen to those who follow. With that said please do not kid yourself into thinking that "there is no possible way THAT actually happened! Not at the Grand!" Does it make it any easier to swallow, certainly not, but there is no "Grand" conspiracy even if there might be a few bad "Grand" calls. There are always good people involved in situations like those mentioned, and you know what? Stuff happens... State your case, stand your ground, and conduct yourself as a gentleman (or lady) just don't burn down the house in your effort to win the argument.


Good post....... 
In the two Grands that I judged did I make any bad call..... Yes I did, but I am human and made a mistake. I did not dwell on it and moved on to the next dog. After the test I went up to the handler and we talked about the call, he had no hard feelings.......

Talked with a handler who went out on a test and he felt that he got shafted. talked with a handler who watched him run that dog and I told him what was said. He stated the judges made the right call and the discription the handler gave and the handler that was watching gave was very different......


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## Brutus (Oct 15, 2007)

Bill Davis said:


> I ran the TT water test on Saturday we lost 52 dogs the first day... Very well setup and judged. The blind was the test. Very fair blind of 138 yds. It was setup nicely with the land marks. Dogs that hung to the left shore got into trouble some recovered many did not. I hugged the right side and ever casy I gave was a left back towards the shore. Came away with a pair of two's. Ran the Purina Land on Sunday Did a good job on two of the three marks.(he would have lined a 400 yard blind on the middle mark) Not sure why he did not check up :-( Lined the real blind.
> Ran the Avery water Monday The blind should have been the 5th bird P/U'd not the second .... Only heard one complaint Saturday concerning TT water. The dog got P/U after some control on the line issues and some control on the blind. 2 marginals does not cut it. Judges on the TT water gave handlers PLENTY of oppurtunities to recover.... Did hear a few handler in our flight on the Purina land and Avery water complain about a few things. As for me I had ZERO complaints. Very nice test  Man that second pass is tough to get. See ya all in the Spring


I agree with Bill on the setups, on TT water you and your dog were given plenty of time to recover. I was one of the 52 dogs that went out on the blind, this particular setup brought out a "gap" that I have in my training. I will continue to train and learn from this run. The marks were well placed, the setup was incredible, its really an honor just to make it to the bucket and blow a duck call at the grand. 

In order to get through a grand you and your dog need to be perfect. If you get in trouble, you need to be able to quickly get them out of trouble, no battles with your dog or you're done. 

This was our second run, we're quickly learning what it takes to get it done. It's a combination of a good team, favorable conditions, running order, sometimes LUCK ( a dog that is sometimes 5 or 6 feet off line may not get the mark) oh and did I mention hard work? 

Good luck to all of those still running today!!


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## championretrievers (Feb 7, 2008)

I am at the GRAND now, handlers meeting has just been called for the final day, the UPLAND. I have to say that from what I have heard from the different flights and our experience, the judging has been more than fair. As Bill had stated, we watched dogs go out that handlers came off the line either mad or not understanding why they had failed. Watching them we saw the cast refusals or whatever was the problem and understood exactly. This is not to say that some dogs won't get a bad break but those seemed to be a lot fewer this GRAND. We have 60 dogs in the Upland today and they all deserve to be here. I am sure there are a lot of great dogs that went out but it is these final 60 that made it through. If every dog were to be able to pass the GRAND, it wouldn't be as coveted. That is what makes a GRAND dog, 4 days of consistency in duck hunting situations and one day of upland. We have one dog in out of the 4 we brought. His name is Cuda Brown from Big Mamou Town "Cuda". A wonderful dog, hope he gets his first grand pass today.
Tina Perron


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Good luck Tina. Tell Joe I said "Hi". I've always laughed (in a good way) at that name, especially the "Big Mamou Town" reference  He's a nice dog!

Kevin N.


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## 2tall (Oct 11, 2006)

Hail call to Mark Massey! I see the Dude is still in there. Good grief, how many Grand titles will the big dog get? Good for you both, hope to see yall soon.


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## Chris Rosier (Dec 27, 2008)

2tall said:


> Hail call to Mark Massey! I see the Dude is still in there. Good grief, how many Grand titles will the big dog get? Good for you both, hope to see yall soon.



Just got word that Dude passed today to pass what I think is his 6th consecutive Grand. Huge accomplishment. Congrats to Mark and Stephen. That is one amazing animal.


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## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Is the Grand finished? I looked on the HRC site but there is nothing after the 4th series for results. I am especially interested in dog 413 run by Don White, a member of my club and our hopes are high for Radar.
If anyone has results, I'd appreciate it!
Diane


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

There is an incredible amount of work right at the end. I am sure it's done. I'd like to know if a couple friends passed too. I'd really like to know if da Juice ran by Travis Bruce. Had to fail them on the Upland in the Spring and hated it. Of course, I hated to fail any of the dogs, it's just that I know Travis.


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

Word on Ducksouth is that Travis and Juice passed. Congratulations to all that made it. 
Mark Land


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## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

Mark,
Can you check on Don White and Radar #413 for me?
Thanks!
Diane


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## David McLendon (Jan 5, 2005)

56 passes...and you didn't fail Travis and Juice Steve, they just failed to pass.
Also just heard that Don and Radar passed.


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## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

David McLendon said:


> 58 passes...and you didn't fail Travis and Juice Steve, they just failed to pass.


I like that way of looking at it.....nice!


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Just received a text from Travis, he actually hugged Dean Roy! OMG


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## Diane Brunelle (Jun 11, 2004)

David McLendon said:


> 56 passes...and you didn't fail Travis and Juice Steve, they just failed to pass.
> Also just heard that Don and Radar passed.


YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH!!!!!! Thank you so much for posting that for me!!!!! it's been a long hard road and so well deserved!


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

Congrats to all that passed!!!

I'll have to give Travis a call/txt later this week. ;-) He's prolly in no condition to answer the phone.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Cat Squirrel said:


> He's prolly in no condition to answer the phone.


Ya think? :razz:


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## Dwayne Padgett (Apr 12, 2009)

I ran in flight C this past weekend and had a great time. Loved the test and all judging that I saw for my self seemed fair. My 6 year old went out in the first, Avery water. My 2 year old held her own and completed the 3rd which was TT water. The 139 yard down the shore was a nice one. She finished it with not a lot of trouble ( PIL and 1 refusal) and came out with a pair of 1's which didn't give us enough points to carry to the 4th. No complaiints here with her performance. We'll go gett'em in MS this spring.


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## Joseph Kendrick (Mar 19, 2010)

Maybe judges should have to post their judging sheets for the world to see at the end of each test.


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## roger (May 5, 2004)

Joseph Kendrick said:


> Maybe judges should have to post their judging sheets for the world to see at the end of each test.


And why is that??


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## Mark Massey (Apr 17, 2008)

Chris Rosier said:


> Just got word that Dude passed today to pass what I think is his 6th consecutive Grand. Huge accomplishment. Congrats to Mark and Stephen. That is one amazing animal.


Thanks, Chris & Carol!! Still on Cloud 9. Congrats to all the other entries......Mark


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Joseph Kendrick said:


> Maybe judges should have to post their judging sheets for the world to see at the end of each test.


I'm with Roger. Why?


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## tankerlab (Feb 26, 2008)

Dman said:


> I'm with Roger. Why?


Me too... WHY???


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## JJaxon (Nov 1, 2009)

Well done Steve Earick, Kate and Manny.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

David McLendon said:


> 56 passes...and you didn't fail Travis and Juice Steve, they just failed to pass.
> Also just heard that Don and Radar passed.


You are right David, Thank you.


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Mark
I tried to call you yesterday to congraulate you on the Dude's yet another Grand pass.
I heard he two whistled that killer blind, what a nice dog! Big dog but a really nice dog! 

What is next for the big guy?


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## Janet Kimbrough (Aug 14, 2003)

Congrats to all that passed the Grand.

Special Congrats go to 

Keven Hester with new GRHRCH Star

Glenda Mitchell with pass on Usher

Charles Smith and GRHRCH Stroker (passed first grand he ran at 17 months and passed at 10 1/2 years old

Travis Bruce and Juice

Proud for all my friends. What an accomplishment.

Janet


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

Joseph Kendrick said:


> Maybe judges should have to post their judging sheets for the world to see at the end of each test.


In HRC the judge can only review the dog's sheet with the HANDLER (not even the owner if he did not handle the dog). The Grand is a little different in that they have a committee person replacing the judge when reviewing the judges sheet. But that judges sheet is only between the judge and handler. As it should be.

Congrats to all that passed. You should be very proud of yourselves and your dogs. Enjoy it.


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## Brutus (Oct 15, 2007)

I'd like to congratulate Dominic Ritter as well as Steve Earick on their passes, both guys from Ohio, sorry Steve you'll always be from Ohio. I hope everyone has made it back safely, we had a great time there!!


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Brutus said:


> I'd like to congratulate Dominic Ritter as well as Steve Earick on their passes, both guys from Ohio, sorry Steve you'll always be from Ohio. I hope everyone has made it back safely, we had a great time there!!





JJaxon said:


> Well done Steve Earick, Kate and Manny.


Ditto! Way to go guys! That is Dom's GRHRCH title Great job to you too Steve, passing 2-3 dogs this time. Not bad!


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## hotel4dogs (Aug 2, 2010)

And big congratulations to the awesome trainer who does our private lessons, Dan Irhke, who may or may not be lurking around here. He passed 3 dogs.


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## C Fontenot (Mar 23, 2005)

Who are the new "Grand Champions". I do not see any where they are listed but that there is 12?


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## LESTER LANGLEY (Jun 12, 2008)

Is it a requirement for grand judges to have passed, or maybe evn run a grand? I don't have a rulebook. I know it used to be that way for started through finished. Anybody know?


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## Kim Williams (Apr 29, 2009)

Does anyone have any idea what happened to J Paul Jackson in the first series? Thought it was a typo. Not sure how that could even happen. What setup did he start with?


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

Kim Williams said:


> Does anyone have any idea what happened to J Paul Jackson in the first series? Thought it was a typo. Not sure how that could even happen. What setup did he start with?


He actually did not run any dogs in this grand. I don't know why it is listing his dogs as "no," instead of as scratches, but he did not run at all.


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## KNorman (Jan 6, 2003)

LESTER LANGLEY said:


> Is it a requirement for grand judges to have passed, or maybe evn run a grand? I don't have a rulebook. I know it used to be that way for started through finished. Anybody know?


They must be an AA Finished judge and approved/asked by the Grand Hunt Committee. There is no pass/or run requirement.


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## Dogtrainer4God (Oct 10, 2006)

LESTER LANGLEY said:


> Is it a requirement for grand judges to have passed, or maybe evn run a grand? I don't have a rulebook. I know it used to be that way for started through finished. Anybody know?


It is not a requirement for a judge to have passed a grand before coming and judging it. I am not sure about if they have to have run a grand......anyone help me out on this??? I know many of them have and been involved in HRC for quite a while before going to the next step, but I don't know for sure about having had to run it. Many of them have though, I'm sure.


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## Margo Ellis (Jan 19, 2003)

Abby
The judges for the grand need to be AA finished judges. Plus be invited to judge by the grand hunt committee.


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Cat Squirrel said:


> and approved/asked by the Grand Hunt Committee.


That usually means they have judged at least 1 finished test with at least 1 member of the Grand Hunt Committee.
They also must attend a Grand Judging seminar before the Grand begins.


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## Steve Peacock (Apr 9, 2009)

I _believe_ they are also recommended by their field rep (not absolutely sure of that).


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## HRC Dogs (Jan 16, 2010)

Congrates to all the dogs that passed!


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## goosebruce (Jan 10, 2003)

Thanks for the well wishes and congrats from everyone. it was an excellent Grand and personally I was just glad to be able to go, let alone go and kick it so hard with da juice. I lost 2 good dogs in my second series on that water blind... and couldnt do anything but grin with what teeth I had left that weren't kicked in. Kick my butt in the field and I'll smile all day about it.

Grand judges are selected by the GHC, whom listen to input from particpants, field reps, EC members, heck maybe even a magic 8 ball. I can assure you there has NEVER been a judging pool assembled in hrc with the knowledge and expereince this Grand had, and it showed by the tests they put together. This was the most laid back Grand I ever attended, probably because everyone in every chair had been everywhere there is at the Grand. Not a stranger in the bunch, even if you where new they made a point to be friendly and root for you every bird. Wonderful wonderful tests.

As far as anyone that seriously thinks the GHC and the judges are in cahoots to keep pass rates in a range, thats insane. And personally for me, its offensive. because the people you are talking about are my friends and work hard for me and every other member of hrc. This isn't some kind of cult or business for these guys, its something they do as a volunteer basis and don't make a red cent. Anyone that has ever put on any type of event knows how much work it is... now imagine organizing 2 week long international events a year, planned 3 to 4 years out, all over the country with a varitety of people and personailites... to show up and spend 8 days of your life working your butt off. Is it perfect? Nope. But neither am I. The day I am I'll expect my dog game of choice to be, until that time I'm so thankful of all the folks that work so hard so I can go play the Grand. The ghc committee listened to a ton of our concearns over the years, and try to do better every single Grand. travis


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## Dman (Feb 26, 2003)

Good post Travis and congratulations to you and the Juice!


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## Jeff Huntington (Feb 11, 2007)

goosebruce said:


> Thanks for the well wishes and congrats from everyone. it was an excellent Grand and personally I was just glad to be able to go, let alone go and kick it so hard with da juice. I lost 2 good dogs in my second series on that water blind... and couldnt do anything but grin with what teeth I had left that weren't kicked in. Kick my butt in the field and I'll smile all day about it.
> 
> Grand judges are selected by the GHC, whom listen to input from particpants, field reps, EC members, heck maybe even a magic 8 ball. I can assure you there has NEVER been a judging pool assembled in hrc with the knowledge and expereince this Grand had, and it showed by the tests they put together. This was the most laid back Grand I ever attended, probably because everyone in every chair had been everywhere there is at the Grand. Not a stranger in the bunch, even if you where new they made a point to be friendly and root for you every bird. Wonderful wonderful tests.
> 
> As far as anyone that seriously thinks the GHC and the judges are in cahoots to keep pass rates in a range, thats insane. And personally for me, its offensive. because the people you are talking about are my friends and work hard for me and every other member of hrc. This isn't some kind of cult or business for these guys, its something they do as a volunteer basis and don't make a red cent. Anyone that has ever put on any type of event knows how much work it is... now imagine organizing 2 week long international events a year, planned 3 to 4 years out, all over the country with a varitety of people and personailites... to show up and spend 8 days of your life working your butt off. Is it perfect? Nope. But neither am I. The day I am I'll expect my dog game of choice to be, until that time I'm so thankful of all the folks that work so hard so I can go play the Grand. The ghc committee listened to a ton of our concearns over the years, and try to do better every single Grand. travis


great post Travis and congrats with Da Juice...did you ever find your cell phone


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## Mike Boufford (Sep 28, 2004)

goosebruce said:


> Thanks for the well wishes and congrats from everyone. it was an excellent Grand and personally I was just glad to be able to go, let alone go and kick it so hard with da juice. I lost 2 good dogs in my second series on that water blind... and couldnt do anything but grin with what teeth I had left that weren't kicked in. Kick my butt in the field and I'll smile all day about it.
> 
> Grand judges are selected by the GHC, whom listen to input from particpants, field reps, EC members, heck maybe even a magic 8 ball. I can assure you there has NEVER been a judging pool assembled in hrc with the knowledge and expereince this Grand had, and it showed by the tests they put together. This was the most laid back Grand I ever attended, probably because everyone in every chair had been everywhere there is at the Grand. Not a stranger in the bunch, even if you where new they made a point to be friendly and root for you every bird. Wonderful wonderful tests.
> 
> As far as anyone that seriously thinks the GHC and the judges are in cahoots to keep pass rates in a range, thats insane. And personally for me, its offensive. because the people you are talking about are my friends and work hard for me and every other member of hrc. This isn't some kind of cult or business for these guys, its something they do as a volunteer basis and don't make a red cent. Anyone that has ever put on any type of event knows how much work it is... now imagine organizing 2 week long international events a year, planned 3 to 4 years out, all over the country with a varitety of people and personailites... to show up and spend 8 days of your life working your butt off. Is it perfect? Nope. But neither am I. The day I am I'll expect my dog game of choice to be, until that time I'm so thankful of all the folks that work so hard so I can go play the Grand. The ghc committee listened to a ton of our concearns over the years, and try to do better every single Grand. travis


Great post and I couldn't agree more. This whining about the judges has just gotta stop. Run what ya got, and run what ya brought and if it isn't good enough go back and train harder OR FIND SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO DO WITH YOUR TIME!!!! 

If I wasn't in China right now, I would have gone to the Grand fairly certain that Miss Tess would have been number 57 but if it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be.


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## Keven (Oct 25, 2003)

jksboxofchocolates said:


> Congrats to all that passed the Grand.
> 
> Special Congrats go to
> 
> ...


Thanks SO much, Janet! I think I'm just sobering up from the most unreal natural high I've ever felt. I can never thank Dale and Denise Johnson enough for all their work, dedication and love for Star. Oh, and for tolerating me - that can be a task.

Congrats to all that passed - congrats to all that got to the line at any series! Thank you to everyone that worked so hard to provide us with a such a wonderful venue to participate in.


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## Trykon (Oct 22, 2007)

This was a great Grand. Test were tough as to be expected at the grand. Judging was fair and stayed that way.

For those of you who have a problem with the grand and how it's run... Get a freaking life!!! I've been to 5 so far and all of them have been very well run. Does it have it's problems? Yes, but don't all test? There are so many good things about that grand that far out way the bad. 

Congrats to all that passed! Can't wait to see all of you at the Grenada grand!


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