# Best way of advertising for retriever training?



## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

Hi everyone, I have been a long time reader of the posts here. I have trained labs for myself for years, and have just started a training business on the side. I know this time of the year can be slow in the business, with things picking up more in the spring and summer, but what would you advise for me as far as the best way to get my name out and get a client or 2. I know that it will take time, very much time, but I am willing to work at it and build it up over time. I am located in central Arkansas. I don't want to just make a post with my business info, bc I am not sure if that would violate any rules. I appreciate any help!


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Social media. Facebook, ads on forums... word of mouth and success with multiple dogs and multiple breeds will be your best advertising, though


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

yes, I agree. word of mouth from clients will be huge. just take some time to build a list of clients. I am just needing 1 or 2 to get started with and hopefully build from there


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## Bridget Bodine (Mar 4, 2008)

being at the ribbon ceremony consistently helps and presenting your dogs polished. If you don't currently do hunt tests , start...


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

What are your qualifications other than training your own dogs? Have you run hunt tests, field trials etc?


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## Final Flight Retrievers (Jan 23, 2010)

word of mouth,referrals are what will build your clients list not Facebook showing some ribbons


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

Yes, word of mouth is what I will focus on once I get a couple of clients. Until then I just have to try and get someone to take a chance on me with their dog. I have done some hunt tests before, but it was years ago and I did not get too involved in that. But that is something that I will be focusing on going forward. My personal dog is 6 months old and I will be entering her in some HT this spring. I fully believe word of mouth and personal references are the best, so I hope to build up to having that.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

backwatercypress said:


> I have trained labs for myself for years, and have just started a training *business on the side.*


What's your normal 'Business' ?
New clients may require full time attention.
Some one else's dog or for that matter some one else is a far cry from ones own experience.


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

Im a school teacher so my hours and work schedule allow for plenty of training time


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

I train twice a day


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## fishduck (Jun 5, 2008)

The best way is to train personal dogs that are so impressive that people want you to train their dogs also. To showcase a dogs abilities requires either guiding for multiple groups during the season or consistently being present at the ribbon ceremony of retriever events.

Others attract clients with flashy websites and promises.


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## Dave Farrar (Mar 16, 2012)

Bridget Bodine said:


> being at the ribbon ceremony consistently helps and presenting your dogs polished. If you don't currently do hunt tests , start...


IMHO, this is the best answer. Having a dog for the next 12-14 years after someone messed it up with poor training would be a bad thing... Collect a bunch of ribbons and advanced titles, then start thinking about charging clients. I know that may sound harsh, but I honestly doubt many people would be willing to take a chance on an unknown "pro."


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Basic obedience for pet dogs is much easier to find and pays a lot better, that's all I'm saying. 

You need to identify where your audience hangs out, duck hunting forums locally, social media pages, the local DU chapter. Then you need to show up and demonstrate (video or live) what you're capable of producing. Find someone whose influential and either train or hep them train their dog for very cheap or free. Get some references/testimonials started for yourself.

I wouldn't bother one minute training hunting test dogs, unless I wanted to train hunting test dogs for a business. Your personal dogs, performing for people is a better advertisement for the average hunter who has no idea what a hunt test is and probable thinks it's more than he needs.


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

Two ways in my opinion. Have several of your own dogs that are nearly perfect every time you run. Or breed a nice female that you've trained and get the training clients from those you've sold puppies to.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

backwatercypress said:


> Im a school teacher so my hours and work schedule allow for plenty of training time


That's concerning if my child was at your school.
That aside (In my personal experience) having the advantage of being in the place you are now,perhaps a video of what you do and can do would help .


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

I will try and get a video to post tomorrow. And I don't see how it would be any concern to the parents of my students at all. That is one of the perks of being an education is the schedule


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

As my last profession was a high school teacher , Massachusetts has many demanding continuing education requirements (district and State) which required summer study/certifications/renewal. Agreed summer provides more extensive time but it depends where you are in your career. Mandatory Master degrees..etc. I had a deceased 5th grade teacher dog friend who was a very successful AMATEUR (AFC/FC) trainer even integrated his special needs class using dogs as the teaching/learning lubricant. Never encountered a full-time PRO who was also a full-time teacher since 1977. Good luck, will not be easy as some have stated.

WE also had a high School dog club which I helped co-found. Good kids and taught them dog obedience. One kid showed up a big guy , nice, got him to be a bird boy with another amateur FT nut like me. We trained after school a couple of times a week doing big boy stuff. Paid by the hour based on dogs run as well. He stayed with me and went off to Union College(wildlife management) in Maine and lasted two years before he found a girlfriend. The girl beat college and crushed his parents.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

backwatercypress said:


> Im a school teacher so my hours and work schedule allow for plenty of training time


I believe you are fooling yourself. Taking care of and training someone elses dog is a full time job. Any good pro will tell you they spend WAY WAY more than 40 hrs a weeek at their job I wouldn't think many people would want to entrust their dog to be trained by someone who has a full time job. Even as a teacher you are tied up for most of the daylight hours which is when training occurs, and also when accidents, fires etc can occur that could endanger client dogs. There are too many options for people to be able to put their dogs with a full time professional 

Reread posts 4 & 11


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

I am looking to do this part time, not full time. I have talked with some professionals (some from this site) that did it part time while working a full time job. It can be done


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

A guy who wants a hunting dog isn't at a hunting test ribbon ceremony and doesn't care about a lot of the hunt test stuff. He wants a dog that's first and foremost obedient, will fetch reliably and can take some hand signals. Certainly something that can be accomplished over the summer with a few dogs a year if you're inclined to work that hard. June and September are liable to suck as you'll need those months to do decent basics for people and will be working your regular job.

You're not going to get a bunch of hard core dog people and you don't want them anyway, trust me.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I think in order to keep busy....

You must be competent at what you do..

Most importantly, you must possess the ability to have a great rapport with a diverse group of many acquaintances with many interests..

people skills... and the ability to be able to humbly talk about yourself, and listen to others..


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I am not busy!!!!

I have a HUGE pile of Scrap wood!!!

If you are laughing at this,,,, Screw you!


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

I am very good at training dogs. That is something that just comes naturally to me. People on The other hand, I don't do as well with. I will admit that one of my weaknesses is my people skills. Much better dog skills than people skills! That being said I am good enough at what I do and determined enough to make it work I believe. It will take time, no doubt but I will build a good solid reputation. One thing I would like to hear more about is the difference in hunt test people and just hunting people. I have always been just a hunter and a lot of people in my area I believe are more focused on that. My thoughts were to work on getting my dog titled in order to be more marketable for myself. I have had some people interested in my services and nobody has mentioned hunt test yet. Honestly, I have not looked at there being a difference in the marketing but now looking at it I can see how there would be a difference.


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

Find a mentor that is good at his trade and work your ass off for him. Listen with your eyes and ears only. Right now you have nothing to advertise so work on your people skills along with your dog skills. Eventually your mentor will feed
you some young dogs to train like mine did. Do a good job and you'll get more from him and he will advertise for you like my mentor did for me.
Part time pro for 19 years with a successful full time career, it can be done if you really want to be the best at your trade.


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

mjh345 said:


> I believe you are fooling yourself. Taking care of and training someone elses dog is a full time job. Any good pro will tell you they spend WAY WAY more than 40 hrs a weeek at their job I wouldn't think many people would want to entrust their dog to be trained by someone who has a full time job. Even as a teacher you are tied up for most of the daylight hours which is when training occurs, and also when accidents, fires etc can occur that could endanger client dogs. There are too many options for people to be able to put their dogs with a full time professional
> 
> Reread posts 4 & 11


Not really, it doesn't take 40 hours per week to do an outstanding job of training a short string of dogs. Mine also have much more style and finesse than those on a 16 hole in my humble opinion. I'll put my skills and work ethic up against any full time pro and i mean any.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

Raymond Little said:


> Not really, it doesn't take 40 hours per week to do an outstanding job of training a short string of dogs. Mine also have much more style and finesse than those on a 16 hole in my humble opinion. I'll put my skills and work ethic up against any full time pro and i mean any.


Almost Every weekend there is a place for you to do that. It is called a Field Trial.
The guys with the "best skills and work ethic" are most always the ones that are still there on Sunday and getting blue ribbons.


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## lorneparker1 (Mar 22, 2015)

mjh345 said:


> Almost Every weekend there is a place for you to do that. It is called a Field Trial.
> The guys with the "best skills and work ethic" are most always the ones that are still there on Sunday and getting blue ribbons.


DingDing!

Lorne


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## Thomas D (Jan 27, 2003)

"I am very good at training dogs. That is something that just comes naturally to me. People on The other hand, I don't do as well with. I will admit that one of my weaknesses is my people skills. Much better dog skills than people skills!"

Do you think you can build a solid dog training business with weak people skills?


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## Raymond Little (Aug 2, 2006)

mjh345 said:


> Almost Every weekend there is a place for you to do that. It is called a Field Trial.
> The guys with the "best skills and work ethic" are most always the ones that are still there on Sunday and getting blue ribbons.


Do you believe that's the only place to find skills and work ethic among dog trainers?


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## runnindawgz (Oct 3, 2007)

Bridget Bodine said:


> being at the ribbon ceremony consistently helps and presenting your dogs polished. If you don't currently do hunt tests , start...


X2 
Start bringing dogs to the line that showcase what you are capable of... people will start to ask you for your services!


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Most of the hunters I know could give a rats ass about a hunting test. They don't even know what the thing really entails. 

If you take your dog out to a field with them and run a couple of 100 yard blinds they will be more than impressed and half of them don't really care about that level of detail. 

What most really want is:

A dog that can be a family pet and a hunting companion.
A dog with good manners in the blind (no noise, patience in waiting for birds).
A dog the responds to basic commands, heel, sit, come when in the field. 
A dog that can ride in a boat, sit in a blind and not fight with other dogs that may be encountered in the field. 
A dog that will hunt until it finds a bird and bring the bird back intact. 

Obviously this stuff comes in levels and some people have a lot higher expectations than others but in general hunters just want a dog they can take afield and get some of what we would all consider very basic work out of, that isn't a pain in the ass the whole time. They also want one that the wife and kids don't hate. 

The dog can:

Pop 
Not run blinds (a lot of guys don't mind going with the dog if it will hunt close by)
Not really walk in perfect heel (again if it will stay close by)
Wear an e-collar during the hunt (if the owner understands it's use)
Half of them can break and the owner wouldn't care

Hell I have a professional refuge here locally who ties all their dogs to a tree or the blind until the shooting is over. They don't really train their retrievers for much of anything except half decent manners. If I show up with my MH level dog they do all the long distance retrieves while the refuge dogs pick up the obvious stuff. That's really the standard for most people. 

The audience here has much higher expectations of what a hunting dog should be and do (as do I). This really isn't the place to go and get the information you seek (as you can see). You really have to assume you can do a few dogs a year and go talk to hunters in your local area to see what they expect.

In my area the cover is close. You can't really handle a dog much on a hunt except in a goose field. Once they are 20 yards away you can't see them half the time. I would imagine that influences your potential client's viewpoint/needs. 

Note the thread about the QAA dog blowing up in a rice field hunt. If your area includes a lot of those situation you may have a different set of needs than guys in my area in terms of what a meat dog does. 

Don't get yourself hung up in putting titles on your dog. Train them to a level above what the average guy would expect and demonstrate them first hand for potential clients. Trust me the majority have no idea what HRCH or MH even mean and if they do - they don't care.

People on here telling you to get out and title dogs consistently is wanting you to prove your skills to the poster, since some of them do this stuff regularly, it has nothing to do with what your client expects.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

DarrinGreene said:


> Most of the hunters I know could give a rats ass about a hunting test. They don't even know what the thing really entails.
> 
> If you take your dog out to a field with them and run a couple of 100 yard blinds they will be more than impressed and half of them don't really care about that level of detail.
> 
> ...


Got to say by your post you've been in it awhile......Jim


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

All of what Darren said is excellent... He defines what COULD be the foundation ,or base of the service you provide... Excellent points....


BUT,

The secrete is NUMBERS... You have to figure out a way for people to know of you, and not just through a paper advertisement, or a web page...those do help,, but you need Personal physical contacts of all sorts and all walks of life.. I guess the experts call it a network... You must have good relationships, and those relationships bring the request for your services, either directly,,, they hunt and purchase a dog,, or they have a friend that hunts,,and trusts what your contact tells them about you... Then they contact you with questions,,, and you need skills to know how the sell yourself without sounding arrogant or gruff.... remember,, they are looking at bringing you their little fluffy adorable puppy....  Ya kinda have to be a nice guy!!!


I believe what I said above pertains to any service you want to provide.. I think its the most important and the most difficult aspect to perform correctly..

Most of what part time Hobby shop work I get, comes from someone who knows me, then talks about my work through general conversation,, or physically shows them an example or piece of my woodwork.. But the very first aspect involved in my getting a job,,, starts through people talking,,,,, most of the time..

And like it or not,,,, when you first start out,,,, you must be prepared to "donate" or give work away very inexpensively,,, to help start those outside conversations....

You have to be careful though,, because everyone loves things for free...  and macaroni and cheese gets old fast..


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## Rick Hall (Jan 21, 2003)

Thomas D said:


> Do you think you can build a solid dog training business with weak people skills?


Some certainly do. Though there's also no shortage of "pros" who seem more BS artist than trainer.

I've a sometimes part time trainer friend who's never run a hunt test, yet turns a lot of folks down and could probably make a fair living training via word of mouth through the hunter grapevine. But he's a top speck caller who's frequently invited to call and, incidentally, work his well trained dogs for others. Hell, I'm even regularly asked about training dogs for folks I guide. And that would seem the crux of it to me: somehow, some way the OP has to show his wares to the hunting public. Needn't be at tests or trials, but it probably needs to happen.


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## crackerd (Feb 21, 2003)

backwatercypress said:


> Im a school teacher so my hours and work schedule allow for plenty of training time





polmaise said:


> That's concerning if my child was at your school.


Expounding on polmaise's concern, I might be doubly so in a classroom setting, given your subsequently admitting to "weak people skills." (Kids are people, too - as Mr. Chips used to say, innit, Robt.?)

Otherwise, Rick Hall's response above is doggone concise as for what needs to transpire on your end, to enable you to take on retriever training as a viable sideline gig.

MG


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## Pete (Dec 24, 2005)

I have done this 3 times in 3 different places under 2 1/2 different names so may be I can add some reality to the discussion
I also agree with Darrin,,you will have to take on pets which by the way is a magnificent learning experience applicable to retrievers training,pays better and you don't have to take care of them 24/7
You don't have to win field trials or put MH's on dogs to have a successful hunting dog training business,,where customers are happy.
Most of your customers will not come from these venues and have never heard of them except in folk lore

They want a dog that is steady,can find the birds that drop out in front of them and will bring them back. Everything else falls under the dog learns as he goes.

It would serve you well to push yourself to excel and that should include learning to run trials and or tests just so you can check yourself against a standard of excellence but it is not a necessity to running a gun dog training facility.

I started off part time. I also owned a home improvement business. Long hours in spring through fall made this possible.
I charged half as much as a full time dog trainer and did not charge people if they were not happy with the results. 
My customers came by way of me training at parks. Now granted I had at least the skills to make a couple of MH's but looking back I really didn't know much more about dogs than that.Also was a fanatical bird hunter,that pretty important since your training the dog to do a specific job, Not run test or trials ,,but hunt. The point is you don't need to be the Einstein of dogs to have a successful dog training business. You need to provide a good service and deliver on what you promised. They need their pet to hang out with them and pick up some birds in a decent manner. Later on if your interested you can run the dog games. There are many trainers in the valley I live in and adjacent valley that train hunting dogs and they have never run test or trials,I only hear of them through my customers,so yes it is possible.
Personally though you should strive to be the best you can and learn the most about the animals your training. 
Yes you need to develop people skills ,I lack those also. 
If you do get to run tests and are pretty good at passing at a high level then eventually you will meet key people who trust you and recommend you, and you will move up the scale in quality of dogs that come from being involved in that venue and you will then be getting business from other categories of the market.
It grows step by step,,but you need to grow in knowledge with it and you have to be able to financially make it through until that time comes.
Good luck,, I hope this helps in your journey

Pete


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## Migillicutty (Jan 11, 2014)

Post a humble brag on a retriever forum asking for rec's on advertising your training prowess.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

I think having videos for prospective customers to watch is far underused by trainers. At least it gives folks something to look at while they are 'shopping' - before they actually visit the facility.
Then again, I see some videos of pro trainers on youtube that scare me. LOL

I agree with the notion that most people/hunters just want a good (started to senior level) huntingdog - and a few want a master level dog - But most don't care about hunt tests or trials

As a pro trainer focusing on hunting dogs I would want to tell people that their dogs will get live flyers every other day or so, that they will introduce the dog to boats, docks, ramps, dog stands, dog huts, etc. Different types of dekes - including motion dekes. Multiple guns going off, and all the other 'stuff' a dog will encounter while hunting.

Along with all the 'regular' training - marks on water/land (up to 100 yd), handling, yardwork, etc.


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## kftopgun (Mar 24, 2009)

Best bet is to *NOT* ask for advice on a public forum. Do whatever you would like to do. A lot of people on here have a difficult time offering any sort of encouragement.........about anything.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Tobias said:


> I think having videos for prospective customers to watch is far underused by trainers. At least it gives folks something to look at while they are 'shopping' - before they actually visit the facility.
> Then again, I see some videos of pro trainers on youtube that scare me. LOL
> 
> I agree with the notion that most people/hunters just want a good (started to senior level) huntingdog - and a few want a master level dog - But most don't care about hunt tests or trials
> ...


The experience of Videos!!!! 

That's a very interesting journey.... 

The video journey is a nightmare... You can NOT believe the comments you get privately or even publically from "Experts" making their peanut Gallery comments!

Just ask the guys here that post videos of their training days!  

Here are a couple of comments about my videos of woodwork I do.. 

"I can't believe you work with your fingers so close to a spinning blade"! "What a horrible and dangerous example to set for others to follow! "
"Where is the Guard and splitter on your table saw? "Why do you purchase cheap tools, that don't incorporate safety"?
"Nothin like a ******* and his Nailgun"
"I cant believe you sand your work, and not scrape it with a scraper"
"i would NEVER PAY for a Polyurethane finish" (This person asked me at a later date to donate a piece to his cause! 

"Your tools seem antiquated" (I was actually proud someone said this!)
"I expected your shop to be more "professional, Not a garage! "

And then the topper!!!

Your videos are crap.... You need a better camera! Could you send me another example with better quality..



PEOPLE SKILLS!  For ME,,, some days I am better at it than others


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## Peter Balzer (Mar 15, 2014)

Migillicutty said:


> Post a humble brag on a retriever forum asking for rec's on advertising your training prowess.


It took 37 replies and 4 pages for someone to call him out on this. . . are the RTF members going soft?


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

When I say people skills I was referring to business people skills. As far as being a teacher I have plenty of communication skills with students and parents. That is not an issue. I am a guy who has been training labs for over 10 years and know what I'm doing with it. I do understand that I will continue to be learning as long as I train dogs. I appreciate those of you who did give good advice and were encouraging. I know that word-of-mouth is the best advertisement I can have, so I will work with what clientele I get and build from there.


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

I'm not going to get an a back-and-forth argument. I am just now starting my side business so I have nothing to "brag" about on that. I know there are professional trainers on this forum that have started out from somewhere and so I was simply asking for some advice.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

MooseGooser said:


> The experience of Videos!!!!
> 
> That's a very interesting journey....
> 
> ...


oh yes, I am sure you get all sorts of comments regarding all kinds of things. I think youtube has an option for not allowing comments. There've been a few times when I wanted to leave one, but was unable. LOL - like the one where someone was running their dog on a triple with a 'supposed' 300 yd 'retired' gun (bumper boy or thunder launcher). I laughed out loud, cause the mark was nowhere NEAR 300 yd. LMAO. 

Truly, professional quality videos are a must for most businesses wanting to utilize them for advertising. And the content in the video should be too.


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm with Darrin and Pete on this. The OP has discovered something that he believes he's good at, and wants to give it a try as a profession. Most of our interaction with Pros is geared toward the name field trial and hunt test pros, he's just a guy that wants to train dogs for Joe hunter. That's his market, the guy who would be blown away if his dog was trained to sit at heel, watch birds down, swim out 40 yards and return. If that dog could handle out to 100 yards he would be ecstatic!


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

backwatercypress said:


> When I say people skills I was referring to business people skills. As far as being a teacher I have plenty of communication skills with students and parents. That is not an issue. I am a guy who has been training labs for over 10 years and know what I'm doing with it. I do understand that I will continue to be learning as long as I train dogs. I appreciate those of you who did give good advice and were encouraging. I know that word-of-mouth is the best advertisement I can have, so I will work with what clientele I get and build from there.


TBH , If you survive this thread without any negative comments then there would be something wrong ..People skills are with people face to face ..these days (in some domains) it would appear that the word is mightier than the sword . 
When I started a Dog Training venture (Obedience/Problem dogs ,barking/lunging/aggression/etc) some years ago ,the highest percentage of owners were 'Professional People' , by that I mean , Doctors,Lawyers,Nurses,Teachers,Social workers. They were all 'Experts' at communicating with other people in their business!!.
In this 'Business' , I am not a Dog Trainer, I am a Coach for people who can't train a dog.


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

Guy has a business name, and a logo already according to his avatar.
Minimal if any credible experience. Obviously has taught at least one or two to HERE, HEEL and SIT, maybe FF.
What else do you need to be a pro? He will find a few gullible inexperienced duck commando's to learn how to "train" on their dogs at the dogs expense most likely. Here today, gone tomorrow leaving a wake of poorly trained dogs for someone else to try to fix if it is possible.
Guy says he is in Ark. where there are a multitude of long experienced very credible trainers that have great reputations and a loyal clientele. I can't think of a better (LOL) situation to try to break into a very specialized and tiny niche market than this.
There have been hundreds like this before, there will be hundreds after. 
Just goes to prove again, all you have to do to be a pro is to call yourself one. That's a long way from being a professional.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Well everybody deserves a chance tp fail but dogs usually @ the low level only getonce chance around. I know the big guys thru slapping hand skin and competition. They earned their spurs. NO BS but my hero , southern boys should know him is an amateur by the name of F Lee Jolly (LA). When you can run a 90 dog Open and win with one dog and Lardy takes 2,3,4 and all additional five jams you are cooking. I love Amateur trained dogs as well as several pros when both have the "Right-Stuff"- pardon me John Glenn.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Peter Balzer said:


> It took 37 replies and 4 pages for someone to call him out on this. . . are the RTF members going soft?


I thought about it but enough people had jumped on the OP already so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.


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## ErinsEdge (Feb 14, 2003)

> I know there are professional trainers on this forum that have started out from somewhere and so I was simply asking for some advice.


Most pros apprenticed under a another pro. What program do you follow?


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

jd6400 said:


> Got to say by your post you've been in it awhile......Jim


Hunting a touch over 40 years and training dogs about 12 now Jim. 

I don't do any hunting dogs (doesn't pay) but I handle about 20 pet cases a week year 'round. There are a lot of pitfalls to what the OP proposes. Not the least of which is trying to take newspaper quality dogs and turn them into solid hunting dogs. Drive and temperament are things that can't be created by the trainer but rather must be dealt with as they come. 

That ain't always easy. 

There's nothing like regret though, so if you think you can do it and it makes you happy - you should absolutely try.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

polmaise said:


> In this 'Business' , I am not a Dog Trainer, I am a Coach for people who can't train a dog.


Or who doesn't want to train a dog!  

to the op - I think somebody else suggested it and it may be that you would be better off buying a couple of well bred pups and training them up and selling them as started, intermediate or finished level dogs.


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## labguy (Jan 17, 2006)

Mike Perry said:


> Guy has a business name, and a logo already according to his avatar.
> Minimal if any credible experience. Obviously has taught at least one or two to HERE, HEEL and SIT, maybe FF.
> What else do you need to be a pro? He will find a few gullible inexperienced duck commando's to learn how to "train" on their dogs at the dogs expense most likely. Here today, gone tomorrow leaving a wake of poorly trained dogs for someone else to try to fix if it is possible.
> Guy says he is in Ark. where there are a multitude of long experienced very credible trainers that have great reputations and a loyal clientele. I can't think of a better (LOL) situation to try to break into a very specialized and tiny niche market than this.
> ...


What a ridiculously judgemental post. How the hell would you know what skills this man does or does not possses? 

There are a plethora of really good amateur trainers around that could easily move into professional training and be a dam site better than some of the other, more established pros. I personally know dozens of them.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

Tobias said:


> Or who doesn't want to train a dog!
> 
> to the op - I think somebody else suggested it and it may be that you would be better off buying a couple of well bred pups and training them up and selling them as started, intermediate or finished level dogs.


Those that don't have a want ' are easily discarded by either the Coach or themselves.
Training up and selling started or finished dogs only proves the Coach can train a dog to that level. It doesn't carry a ribbon of training people to get to that level .


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

Just because I don't have a bunch of titled dogs does not mean I don't know what I'm doing. My dog that I just retired recently which I trained 100% by myself would handle on 300 yard blinds to near perfection. ( I know anyone can claim anything on a post like this but that's the honest truth) I appreciate it, John and labguy . I do believe in my area there is a strong market for hunters that just want a dog for hunting and do not care near as much about hunt tests.


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

backwatercypress said:


> *Just because I don't have a bunch of titled dogs does not mean I don't know what I'm doing. * *My dog that I just retired recently which I trained 100% by myself would handle on 300 yard blinds to near perfection.* ( I know anyone can claim anything on a post like this but that's the honest truth) I appreciate it, John and labguy . I do believe in my area there is a strong market for hunters that just want a dog for hunting and do not care near as much about hunt tests.


I agree, You don't have to have a bunch of titles to know what you are doing ! Some would say you have to have a bunch of titles to show them that you know what you are doing . 
Love to see a clip of that dog of yours on that blind ?..Better still, some one else's dog that couldn't do it before .
If the market is targeted to less than is required ,perhaps it's not required .


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Tobias said:


> oh yes, I am sure you get all sorts of comments regarding all kinds of things. I think youtube has an option for not allowing comments. There've been a few times when I wanted to leave one, but was unable. LOL - like the one where someone was running their dog on a triple with a 'supposed' 300 yd 'retired' gun (bumper boy or thunder launcher). I laughed out loud, cause the mark was nowhere NEAR 300 yd. LMAO.
> 
> Truly, professional quality videos are a must for most businesses wanting to utilize them for advertising. And the content in the video should be too.




I am of the opinion to let your work ,and what you want for it,, speak for its self..

And the number 1 rule!!!

There are people that you just cant make happy,, don't get in over your head..

See my signature line!!


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

I think from what you describe as far as the dog you think most would be interested in,,,,

I think a HRC SEASONED Titled dog fits your desire perfectly


If you were to do homework, purchase a puppy yourself, train it to that level, and showcase that dog at HRC hunt tests,,and let people know it is for sale....


You would find out pretty quickly the demand for your services.. 

Your advertising would be the performance of that dog at a test,,,, or maybe at a training day..

The reason I say this is ,in my situation, I feel the most comfortable when I build something to my design,,and for "spec" In other words, I am speculating someone will like it, and want to purchase it... 

The piece is complete, and ready to be placed in the home.. You know the customer is happy right out of the gate... They LIKE your work..


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mike Perry said:


> Guy has a business name, and a logo already according to his avatar.
> Minimal if any credible experience. Obviously has taught at least one or two to HERE, HEEL and SIT, maybe FF.
> What else do you need to be a pro? He will find a few gullible inexperienced duck commando's to learn how to "train" on their dogs at the dogs expense most likely. Here today, gone tomorrow leaving a wake of poorly trained dogs for someone else to try to fix if it is possible.
> Guy says he is in Ark. where there are a multitude of long experienced very credible trainers that have great reputations and a loyal clientele. I can't think of a better (LOL) situation to try to break into a very specialized and tiny niche market than this.
> ...


Boy Mike,why so negative towards the guy?I'm sure you had to start from somewhere......I wish the op all the luck in the world.Jim


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

The question is ,, How much is that dog worth?


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

MooseGooser said:


> The question is ,, How much is that dog worth?


Love your posts Gooser, but Nah! ...How much is your time worth ?


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

John Robinson said:


> I'm with Darrin and Pete on this. The OP has discovered something that he believes he's good at, and wants to give it a try as a profession. Most of our interaction with Pros is geared toward the name field trial and hunt test pros, he's just a guy that wants to train dogs for Joe hunter. That's his market, the guy who would be blown away if his dog was trained to sit at heel, watch birds down, swim out 40 yards and return. If that dog could handle out to 100 yards he would be ecstatic!



As always,, I seem to agree a lot with John.... Sorry John.. 

But when I asked Whats a dog like this worth?,,, I was serious.. 

Remember,, Joe Hunter.... Consider a HRC Seasoned Title dog... Is obedient,, Is steady.. Delivers to hand. Competent with double retrieves.. Runs land and water blinds to 60 yrds. (prolly more)

That dog would probably need to be at a Pro for what they call a gun dog program.. Maybe 4 months? Obedience trained, FF'd,, collar conditioned, Completed the "yard" work.. running simple blinds....

if the PRO (like the OP) purchased the puppy, and lets just say he paid a grand for the dog... then add on the 4 months of kennel and training,,,, maybe average 700 a month??

Is Joe Hunter ready to fork over $3800 for a dog??? I don't know! I am seriously asking the question..

Whats the dog worth?


I think my guestimate on the price of the trained gun dog, may have been a bit conservative too


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

My opinion is,, I think most "joe Hunters" are do it yourself type guys..


JMHO


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## Terry Marshall (Jan 12, 2011)

backwatercypress said:


> Hi everyone, I have been a long time reader of the posts here. I have trained labs for myself for years, and have just started a training business on the side. I know this time of the year can be slow in the business, with things picking up more in the spring and summer, but what would you advise for me as far as the best way to get my name out and get a client or 2. I know that it will take time, very much time, but I am willing to work at it and build it up over time. I am located in central Arkansas. I don't want to just make a post with my business info, bc I am not sure if that would violate any rules. I appreciate any help!


I've read thru all the posts so far and not a mention of facility, insurance, training grounds, history, access, just to mention a few....if you want to go into dog training after you retire from the ISD then I would apprentice with one of the Pros near you on a part time basis....clean kennels...throw birds....shoot flyers...do OB for 6 months....do FF for a year... YOU THINK YOU KNOW ...BUT YOU DON'T....Do you want to be the the best some day or just another half ass part time trainer....JMHO


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

I swear RTF is the place dreams come to die. Here's a school teacher with a dream of being a dog trainer, he feels he has a knack for it but we all know there is way more to it than that. That said, not every gun dog trainer aspires to be Danny Farmer or Mike Lardy, the OP might not even know who they are, he just want to train dogs is all. Now most of us know there's a lot more to it than that, and I'm sure this thread has been educational for him, but I'd rather be cautiously encouraging. 

Some good ideas people have brought up:

1) Apprentice with an established pro, . That would require quitting his teaching job for much less pay, so probably not practical.

2) Buy a quality pup, train it up to a good gun dog, better yet put a SH or MH title on the dog, sell dog, start over. Make a reputation for building good hunting dogs.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Isn't Mike Lardy a former educator?

Edit (4 days later)- 12/12 - I was informed that no, Mike was not a former educator. Thought I had heard long ago that he had been. But my memory ain't what it used to be


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

I trained gun dogs for quite a while. Most didn't know what hunt tests were and only a very few wanted to run hunt tests (only four I think).
Most only wanted an obedient dog that would bring a bird back and use it's nose. 
I think it depends. Most of the time word of mouth. And then ads in local area


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## mountaindogs (Dec 13, 2010)

I have a good friend who was training with me to get her dog (pointing dog) to trial level. We were training 4-5 times a week until she started teaching this past fall. Now maybe once a week. Maybe. She thought she would have 3 days still but 2 of those are always booked with Parent meetings, FFA, tutoring or other stuff after school. It is a new charter school though so might be higher demand. That said I started training around a part time job also, though I don't train as much for retrievers. Darrin Greene is right! That's what people want - Solid obedience. Plus side for you is that you must already be good at teaching people which is my weak spot for sure!


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

Someone asked about facilities and all that. I live on 200 acres and have kennels that are under shelter, I have all the stuff that I have used in training my dogs. I know that there are items that I will need to purchase as I grow, but I have what I need at this point. Yes I do know who Lardy is, and I don't aspire to be a huge name like that. I'm just looking to grow a reputation in my area as a great trainer. I believe there is a market for me to reach. I do appreciate those of you who have voiced support for me.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

Thomas D said:


> "I am very good at training dogs. That is something that just comes naturally to me. People on The other hand, I don't do as well with. I will admit that one of my weaknesses is my people skills. Much better dog skills than people skills!"
> 
> Do you think you can build a solid dog training business with weak people skills?







Yes!!!!!!! That's me to a T. I get by on my people skills but to me the people part is the worst part of the business. This is a big reason I train dogs. I like my co-workers much better than I did working a regular job. I am good enough at training dogs and clients are happy with their results that I get more than enough word of mouth referrals.
I worked full time and trained part time for 7 years and I had a more time consuming job than a school teacher. I also think a school teacher could make a good dog trainer. If he has the patients to work with other peoples little brats training dogs would be a welcome relief.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Wow 3,467 hits on this already ..click bait or self-importance? OP come over to POTUS and we will show how to roll to the next stage of criticism. 

You got your free advertising for Backwater Cypress Retrievers now.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

DarrinGreene said:


> Most of the hunters I know could give a rats ass about a hunting test. They don't even know what the thing really entails.
> 
> If you take your dog out to a field with them and run a couple of 100 yard blinds they will be more than impressed and half of them don't really care about that level of detail.
> 
> ...








You are exactly right Darrin BUT if you train to hunt test standards Joe hunter will be extremely pleased. Also to build your business getting a client involved in tests or trials also puts that dog in training longer and generates more income. On the other hands puts more stress and strain on the trainer to perform again BUT that makes dog and trainer both better at what they do. Sure it's easier to train for people that don't have a clue so to the original poster you need to take a solid look at your long term goals.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

DarrinGreene said:


> Hunting a touch over 40 years and training dogs about 12 now Jim.
> 
> I don't do any hunting dogs (doesn't pay) but I handle about 20 pet cases a week year 'round. There are a lot of pitfalls to what the OP proposes. Not the least of which is trying to take newspaper quality dogs and turn them into solid hunting dogs. Drive and temperament are things that can't be created by the trainer but rather must be dealt with as they come.
> 
> ...




Exactly Darrin. What you do works for you but I could not do that. I would rater work a regular job. Hunting dogs do pay my bills. What you do you have to work more with the people than the dogs and those dogs are probably far worse than a news paper retriever. For me, NO THANKS!


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Steve Shaver said:


> Exactly Darrin. What you do works for you but I could not do that. I would rater work a regular job. Hunting dogs do pay my bills. What you do you have to work more with the people than the dogs and those dogs are probably far worse than a news paper retriever. For me, NO THANKS!


It's really a matter of investment and starting from where you are Steve. Where I currently live there's no way I could do hunting dogs effectively. I would love to but I simply don't have access to the funding it would take. It would be less clients, no doubt and closer to things I really love about dogs but I am so much better off training dogs than dealing with moronic, selfish, self serving co-workers that despite a lot of things about my business I don't love... It's far superior to the alternative.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

Steve Shaver said:


> You are exactly right Darrin BUT if you train to hunt test standards Joe hunter will be extremely pleased. Also to build your business getting a client involved in tests or trials also puts that dog in training longer and generates more income. On the other hands puts more stress and strain on the trainer to perform again BUT that makes dog and trainer both better at what they do. Sure it's easier to train for people that don't have a clue so to the original poster you need to take a solid look at your long term goals.


I agree with all that Steve but some folks expressed that hunting test ribbon ceremonies were the end all be all way to get a few hunting dogs to train over the summer. I think that's wrong based on the audience. Better yet, at least in my area, I KNOW it's wrong.

Like I said - people in this game have all kinds of silly notions about what qualifies someone to be a professional trainer. In my mind the only thing that qualifies a person is that they are humane in what they do and can gather enough clients to make a living. 

I deal with a lot of dogs that other trainers have consulted with previously. Normally, I'm asked to fix problems their training either created or failed to solve. That's my day in, day out reality and people here will say I'm not qualified to do my job because I'm not out winning field trials. 

On the flip side of that I've seen some of those people actually train and handle dogs. Some people think a lot more of themselves than they really are. That's all I'm gonna say about that.


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## jgsanders (Jul 9, 2015)

One thing I think there might be a market for...for folks in Arkansas, LA, OK, and other duck meccas....

Taking a dog hunting x number of times per week in addition to training. Putting a dog on wild birds is invaluable. There is another thread on here about a QAA dog that is struggling in wild bird hunting scenarios. I think the owner has limited access to grounds....

In SC, we are not in a primary flyway. Wood ducks only by and large. Lots of no-action or slow action hunting. 

Some of these dogs on expensive trucks have owners in non-duck mecca regions too...

I offered to pay a gentleman down in Miss to keep and hunt my dog everyday a few years back, as he guides everyday. He declined b/c he had his own black lab and couldn't take the look on her face being left at home each morning. If you teach full time, not sure this is an option, but I wonder if their are folks out there who do this. For the folks willing to pay a professional for training, why wouldn't you pay someone to hunt your dog for 2 months? if you are busy, don't have access to grounds, etc?


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## Mike Perry (Jun 26, 2003)

When I was guiding in Canada, I would usually take some of my client dogs with me to do this exactly. Especially the young guys,so they could get on real birds in real hunting situations. The good thing about up there is that we always shot a lot of birds and usually hunted twice a day. AM for ducks, PM for geese so every dog got plenty of work, land and water. By the time they got back, it was time for the opener down here and the dog was not "brand new" to hunting.
We would routinely shoot 50-60 per hunt (8 bird limit, 20 light geese) and the dogs got a lot of experience. Since the guides don't shoot, I could pay attention to the dog maybe more than Joe Duckhunter and concentrate on steady, mouth manners, quiet etc. The only real true way to teach one how to hunt is to go hunting, but many owners are as much or more interested in the shooting than teaching a young guy his manners and how to act around multiple guns and people. Let them break a couple times on real birds and get a retrieve and you have created a lifetime of breaking. Switching birds, bad mouth manners etc can really mess up an otherwise well trained dog because the hunter has more interest in shooting than getting a good foundation on a young dog.
Sometimes I get asked about one of my MH dogs if he hunts. When I tell the person he has picked up 10,000 or more real birds hunting they usually look at me like I have 2 heads, but when you hunt 60-80 days a year and retrieve 60-100 a day, after just a few seasons it doesn't take long to add up.
MP



jgsanders said:


> One thing I think there might be a market for...for folks in Arkansas, LA, OK, and other duck meccas....
> 
> Taking a dog hunting x number of times per week in addition to training. Putting a dog on wild birds is invaluable. There is another thread on here about a QAA dog that is struggling in wild bird hunting scenarios. I think the owner has limited access to grounds....
> 
> ...


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

I handled my first MH on every bird for about half a season. He was a SH and 18 mos old a the time.
He had no idea what the heck we were shooting at initially. 2 preserve hunts of about 100 birds each and he was marking them correctly.


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## jgsanders (Jul 9, 2015)

DarrinGreene said:


> I handled my first MH on every bird for about half a season. He was a SH and 18 mos old a the time.
> He had no idea what the heck we were shooting at initially. 2 preserve hunts of about 100 birds each and he was marking them correctly.


as a wild bird hunter, I'm not knocking the preserve thing. 100 birds in a preserve hunt each hunt? Obviously that's 10 birds for 10 men?....that's not reality in my world, not even close. 

I need a dog dog that is patient, doesn't break, and understands his real purpose in life. 

I hunted this morning. I shot zero in 24 degree temps in SC, and had 3 birds total in our group Ask the Ga boys, they know. 

Every time I load up to go to the flyway, it's $1,000 minimum for 3 days, but really more. I have to plan vacation ahead of time and what if the weather sucks?


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

jgsanders said:


> as a wild bird hunter, I'm not knocking the preserve thing. 100 birds in a preserve hunt each hunt? Obviously that's 10 birds for 10 men?....that's not reality in my world, not even close.
> 
> I need a dog dog that is patient, doesn't break, and understands his real purpose in life.
> 
> ...


I was wondering about the 100 bird thing too. Never been to a preserve, can't imagine. Hunting public land out west is just a little less productive, but fun for me and the dogs anyway. 

This year has been terrible, but I still enjoy it. Most years my buddy and I have two or three hunts where we shoot our 14 bird limit. The boat launch is five minutes from my house, we are probably all set up within an hour of leaving the house. If it's good we might hunt till 11:00 regardless of number of birds, if it's bad we might quit by 10:00. A good day would be 4-5 birds each, comradery in the blind, calling birds and watching good dog work, that's a good day. Many times we just shoot one or two.


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## Matt Duncan (Feb 21, 2011)

Skip advertising and just train dogs. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get. There are a lot of guys that just up and decide to be a pro one day that don't quite know what they are getting themselves into. When you start out it will be clear to you and everyone else what your abilities are as for that first few years you aren't going to get a solid stream of talent coming though your kennel. You have to be capable of training every dog not just not just the nice ones. You will get dogs that have been burnt up elsewhere. You will get dogs that have no business doing anything but laying on the couch. You will get dogs that are old, not socialized, weird, not very trainable and have little desire. As a trainer you are judged on the caliber of dogs you send home. The dog that was dropped off is irrelevant. That being said you had better be able to consistently turn nothing into something for a while. You have have to send home dogs that are actually trained. They have to be able to perform for that owner that didn't put the time in to learn how to handle a dog. Big difference in a dog just doing a task and doing that task because he is trained. Having adequate grounds, facilities and transportation for your dogs is another one to get ready for. None of those things are inexpensive. Not pet porters in the truck bed and training at the local park or in the yard. Training is also not a part time job. Unless you are doing 3 or 4 dogs you are putting the same amount of time in if you have 8 dogs or 18. Less dogs means you can do more drills and other things you didn't have time for when you had a full plate. Less dogs means more work for the dogs not less work for you. There is also a lot more to being a trainer than just training dogs. You have dog care, maintenance on your facilities and equipment, dealing with clients, vet trips and sometimes you may get to eat dinner before 9pm. Not trying to discourage you but these are just some things to think about.


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

jgsanders said:


> but I wonder if their are folks out there who do this. For the folks willing to pay a professional for training, why wouldn't you pay someone to hunt your dog for 2 months? if you are busy, don't have access to grounds, etc?


I am fairly confident my dog's breeder hunts client dogs as part of their training. Seen photos on fb that showed it anyway.


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## MooseGooser (May 11, 2003)

Mat Duncan GREAT Post..

I think you could insert any endeavor a person would strive to do professionally, and your advice would apply..

And to the O.P.

Don't cave to all the negativity as to why it wont work for you... You will hear a LOT of that.. I think its good to listen,, but if you have a goal and really want it,, you will overcome the entities that make it difficult..


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## Wayne Nutt (Jan 10, 2010)

Sometimes you have to tell the owner the dog isn't going to make it and send the dog home. Every dog deserves about three months. Most owners will appreciate this honesty.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

John Robinson said:


> I was wondering about the 100 bird thing too.


Our local preserve does several released mallard shoots each year where a 3 man bind can buy 50 birds for a relative discount. It's about $1,000 split 3 ways. The dog has to sit and watch 1/4 to 1/3 of those bird fall, + the birds of 3 or more blinds around them before retrieves can be made. It's a pretty big test of patience because there are marks literally everywhere. Helps a LOT with "cant go until sent". The hunts I did, I was there to pick up birds for a specific party but the dog was so good that I was asked to stay. My father and his boys can shoot so they were the first ones off the field (with 50 bagged) but I got to stay the duration of the shoot. Hence I estimate the dog picked up 100 per outing.

John - ask Bait about this - he has done it for years with his dogs.


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## jgsanders (Jul 9, 2015)

DarrinGreene said:


> Our local preserve does several released mallard shoots each year where a 3 man bind can buy 50 birds for a relative discount. It's about $1,000 split 3 ways. The dog has to sit and watch 1/4 to 1/3 of those bird fall, + the birds of 3 or more blinds around them before retrieves can be made. It's a pretty big test of patience because there are marks literally everywhere. Helps a LOT with "cant go until sent". The hunts I did, I was there to pick up birds for a specific party but the dog was so good that I was asked to stay. My father and his boys can shoot so they were the first ones off the field (with 50 bagged) but I got to stay the duration of the shoot. Hence I estimate the dog picked up 100 per outing.
> 
> John - ask Bait about this - he has done it for years with his dogs.



might just be me, but im not sure your dog is "marking" the 12-15 down birds you indicate. That's more like releasing and "hunt em up" til you pick them all up isn't it. 

Does help with patience and whining though so I get that aspect, and there is thread about that on here too.


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

jgsanders said:


> might just be me, but im not sure your dog is "marking" the 12-15 down birds you indicate. That's more like releasing and "hunt em up" til you pick them all up isn't it.
> 
> Does help with patience and whining though so I get that aspect, and there is thread about that on here too.


He wasn't marking in that situation - no but he learned to look at the sky. That those flying things were what we were shooting. Prior to that the closest thing he had seen was a shot flier. He'd probably seen several hundred birds at that point but none of them actually fell from the sky. 

After this you could hide and watch the dog - he would tell you when birds showed up by where he was looking. 

It was by no means an exercise in marking. In fact, a lot of the birds he picked up those days were blinds. We got all the long/harder ones while the preserve dogs got the obvious stuff.

I guess my point was to simply agree - there's no substitute for hunting experience with a hunting dog.


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## Bracklab (Apr 11, 2014)

Best of luck to you. You are entitled to do what you want to do. I think you will do just fine, as you seem to have a passion for working with dogs. Passion combined with hard work will equal results.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

DarrinGreene said:


> Like I said - people in this game have all kinds of silly notions about what qualifies someone to be a professional trainer. In my mind the only thing that qualifies a person is that they are humane in what they do and can gather enough clients to make a living.
> 
> .


Quite revealing.
That explains a lot


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

mjh345 said:


> Quite revealing.
> That explains a lot


I get his point, there are many more kinds of "pro" beyond what we are used to in the field trial game. Our definition is pretty narrow, so we shouldn't undervalue the average obedience, problem dog trainer as long as they are humane and get results.


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## Hunt'EmUp (Sep 30, 2010)

If it were me and I was looking for a side project I'd buy a pup and do a started dog. Basically you train a pup up to sell. Other than that in home OB training, is much easier and cost effective than Hunt test-gun dog training. Of course got to deal with a peculiar type of clientele, but then they tend to pay better for their quirkiness 

My newest venture decoy retrievers, actually got paid by a few guys at the club to have my dog pick-up their decoys; so they didn't have to mush through the mud. Excellent business opportunity, a little niche for everyone .


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## DarrinGreene (Feb 8, 2007)

The challenge with in home obedience is that it's usually problem solving and a lot of times aggression, so retriever experience is awesome but really doesn't cover the required skill set. It also takes a fair bit of people skill and a whole lot of patience. It's not the right fit for everyone. Also - it pays better but it's a treadmill of getting new clients. I'd love to have 10 retrievers to train every day and have them for a year instead of trying to drum up that amount of business every month.


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## Sundown49 aka Otey B (Jan 3, 2003)

Matt Duncan said:


> Skip advertising and just train dogs. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get. There are a lot of guys that just up and decide to be a pro one day that don't quite know what they are getting themselves into. When you start out it will be clear to you and everyone else what your abilities are as for that first few years you aren't going to get a solid stream of talent coming though your kennel. You have to be capable of training every dog not just not just the nice ones. You will get dogs that have been burnt up elsewhere. You will get dogs that have no business doing anything but laying on the couch. You will get dogs that are old, not socialized, weird, not very trainable and have little desire. As a trainer you are judged on the caliber of dogs you send home. The dog that was dropped off is irrelevant. That being said you had better be able to consistently turn nothing into something for a while. You have have to send home dogs that are actually trained. They have to be able to perform for that owner that didn't put the time in to learn how to handle a dog. Big difference in a dog just doing a task and doing that task because he is trained. Having adequate grounds, facilities and transportation for your dogs is another one to get ready for. None of those things are inexpensive. Not pet porters in the truck bed and training at the local park or in the yard. Training is also not a part time job. Unless you are doing 3 or 4 dogs you are putting the same amount of time in if you have 8 dogs or 18. Less dogs means you can do more drills and other things you didn't have time for when you had a full plate. Less dogs means more work for the dogs not less work for you. There is also a lot more to being a trainer than just training dogs. You have dog care, maintenance on your facilities and equipment, dealing with clients, vet trips and sometimes you may get to eat dinner before 9pm. Not trying to discourage you but these are just some things to think about.


good advice .....this young man is a hard worker...


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm looking forward to what the OP can do .


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## birddogn_tc (Apr 24, 2015)

There is a professional retriever trainer here in North Texas that has been very successful by simply doing OB and gundog work. He never travels and does not go to HT or FT because he doesn't have to. I bet he hasn't entered a test in 20 years. 99.9% of his clients don't even know what a HT or FT is...and they don't care. They just want a well behaved dog at home with their families and they want to take their dog dove hunting (maybe) once a year on opening day with their buddies and hopefully he retrieves the birds. After the hunt the owner can drink whiskey and cook steaks at the lodge and talk about what a great dog they have. 

This particular trainer has found a niche market of very affluent clientele that refer and refer and refer again. He charges more per month than some of the most successful FT trainers and people don't question it one bit. He has a very clean and presentable indoor/outdoor kennel with heat and cooling system. This makes the owners feel good that their little yellow puppy is going to be ok "at camp" for a couple months. 

He encourages owners to visit and see their puppies progress. Most people go out and work with their dogs and are amazed that their dog now retrieves a bird from 30 yards and comes to heel and delivers the bird to hand. They think their dog is a genius and they think the trainer is a dog whisperer. 

It's a pretty good business model for a trainer if you ask me. Not where I would send my dog to be trained but he makes a great living and is home on the weekends and has 100's of happy clients.


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## Steve Shaver (Jan 9, 2003)

birddogn_tc said:


> There is a professional retriever trainer here in North Texas that has been very successful by simply doing OB and gundog work. He never travels and does not go to HT or FT because he doesn't have to. I bet he hasn't entered a test in 20 years. 99.9% of his clients don't even know what a HT or FT is...and they don't care. They just want a well behaved dog at home with their families and they want to take their dog dove hunting (maybe) once a year on opening day with their buddies and hopefully he retrieves the birds. After the hunt the owner can drink whiskey and cook steaks at the lodge and talk about what a great dog they have.
> 
> This particular trainer has found a niche market of very affluent clientele that refer and refer and refer again. He charges more per month than some of the most successful FT trainers and people don't question it one bit. He has a very clean and presentable indoor/outdoor kennel with heat and cooling system. This makes the owners feel good that their little yellow puppy is going to be ok "at camp" for a couple months.
> 
> ...





Yep!!!!! actually the best way to go if you can get into that type of market


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## captainjack (Apr 6, 2009)

This is how you do it...








This young man trained some dogs, took them to run in a very tough 45 dog Qualifying stake against very established and successful pro and amateur trainers/handlers, and finished 1-2.

Be polite, be professional, and train a dog that is competitive or successful for your niche. 

Congrats to Dakota and Kristen Mealer!


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## Bracklab (Apr 11, 2014)

Some interesting responses. As a teacher you know their are multiple, "right" ways to do things. You know what it takes to be successful. Hard work, regardless of the task. Have fun! Enjoy the journey.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

birddogn_tc said:


> There is a professional retriever trainer here in North Texas that has been very successful by simply doing OB and gundog work. He never travels and does not go to HT or FT because he doesn't have to. I bet he hasn't entered a test in 20 years. 99.9% of his clients don't even know what a HT or FT is...and they don't care. They just want a well behaved dog at home with their families and they want to take their dog dove hunting (maybe) once a year on opening day with their buddies and hopefully he retrieves the birds. After the hunt the owner can drink whiskey and cook steaks at the lodge and talk about what a great dog they have.
> 
> This particular trainer has found a niche market of very affluent clientele that refer and refer and refer again. He charges more per month than some of the most successful FT trainers and people don't question it one bit. He has a very clean and presentable indoor/outdoor kennel with heat and cooling system. This makes the owners feel good that their little yellow puppy is going to be ok "at camp" for a couple months.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about Roger?


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## BlaineT (Jul 17, 2010)

captainjack said:


> This is how you do it...
> View attachment 39834
> 
> 
> ...


Dakota has always worked his ass off. He had a great weekend for sure. He's a good friend.


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

I appreciate all the responses, both the positive and negative ones. I have been encouraged by the positive ones and the negative ones have worked to motivate me even more!  Keeping my fingers crossed that it works out, but I have 2 different people, each bringing a dog to me this weekend.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

backwatercypress said:


> I appreciate all the responses, both the positive and negative ones. I have been encouraged by the positive ones and the negative ones have worked to motivate me even more!  Keeping my fingers crossed that it works out, but I have 2 different people, each bringing a dog to me this weekend.


Good luck 
You have the right attitude!!


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## Tobias (Aug 31, 2015)

Yes, good luck and have fun! That's what it's about!


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## Cooper (Jul 9, 2012)

Word of mouth, period. If you can train a happy reliable retriever, you won't need advertising, unless you just want to see your name there. Why solicit more dogs than you want to train?


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## backwatercypress (Dec 8, 2016)

Well, one of the 2 worked out. The first guy never showed up with his dog. 2nd guy showed up 20 minutes early. So I have one to train and am looking for 1 more. 2 is all I want just yet. I want to have success with them, their owners to be extremely happy, and be good references for me and help with the word of mouth. I agree that word of mouth will be the absolute best way, once I have clients that can help spread the word


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

You got it. Start small, quality over quantity.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

backwatercypress said:


> Well, one of the 2 worked out. The first guy never showed up with his dog. 2nd guy showed up 20 minutes early. So I have one to train and am looking for 1 more. 2 is all I want just yet. I want to have success with them, their owners to be extremely happy, and be good references for me and help with the word of mouth. I agree that word of mouth will be the absolute best way, once I have clients that can help spread the word


Welcome to dog training!Client sposed to be here at 10 am.....it's now almost 1 now........Jim


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## Randy Bohn (Jan 16, 2004)

Chris, good luck in your adventures....training the dog is the easy part, train your clients also, that's the hard part..the sport in general needs better judges... Randy


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## polmaise (Jan 6, 2009)

backwatercypress said:


> I will try and get a video to post tomorrow. And I don't see how it would be any concern to the parents of my students at all. That is one of the perks of being an education is the schedule


Yea it's great that You are doing so well .


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## TIM DOANE (Jul 20, 2008)

If you are a teacher and want a second job go coach football or baseball or anything you think you can coach, you will make a lot more money


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## John Robinson (Apr 14, 2009)

TIM DOANE said:


> If you are a teacher and want a second job go coach football or baseball or anything you think you can coach, you will make a lot more money


I don't know the OP, and I see your smiley face, so you're probably just being tongue in cheek, but I don't think he wants a second job, he wants to be a dog trainer.


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## ColoAngler (Mar 20, 2006)

mjh345 said:


> I believe you are fooling yourself. Taking care of and training someone elses dog is a full time job. Any good pro will tell you they spend WAY WAY more than 40 hrs a weeek at their job I wouldn't think many people would want to entrust their dog to be trained by someone who has a full time job. Even as a teacher you are tied up for most of the daylight hours which is when training occurs, and also when accidents, fires etc can occur that could endanger client dogs. There are too many options for people to be able to put their dogs with a full time professional
> 
> Reread posts 4 & 11


No offense, but my trainer has a full time career as well as a breeding kennel. I think he must sleep 5 hours a night. His family dedicates their off time to working with dogs in a most professional manner. My other option is me, another working professional, to try and carve out time after work ... he works in a seeming painlessly manner to employ training after hours. With the correct schedule, motivation, and drive ... he gets it done. After reviewing much of the Lardy content, it seems to be that consistency and brevity do work with a pup. Just an opinion from an observer.


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## Boykin (Oct 21, 2015)

ColoAngler said:


> No offense, but my trainer has a full time career as well as a breeding kennel. I think he must sleep 5 hours a night. His family dedicates their off time to working with dogs in a most professional manner. My other option is me, another working professional, to try and carve out time after work ... he works in a seeming painlessly manner to employ training after hours. With the correct schedule, motivation, and drive ... he gets it done. After reviewing much of the Lardy content, it seems to be that consistency and brevity do work with a pup. Just an opinion from an observer.


I see you live in the springs. Whos your trainer?


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## FOM (Jan 17, 2003)

Boykin said:


> I see you live in the springs. Whos your trainer?


Jeff has yellow labs, I wouldn't pay much attention to him! 

BTW he still hasn't told me what the new puppy's name is.

And his Pro is Dale Merrit with Bearpoint Kennels located in Larkspur.


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## swliszka (Apr 17, 2011)

Wowzer...Cypress has now got 8,737 hits for his simple question...guess he now knows how to market nationwide???? Good job.


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## mjh345 (Jun 17, 2006)

ColoAngler said:


> No offense, but my trainer has a full time career as well as a breeding kennel. I think he must sleep 5 hours a night. His family dedicates their off time to working with dogs in a most professional manner. My other option is me, another working professional, to try and carve out time after work ... he works in a seeming painlessly manner to employ training after hours. With the correct schedule, motivation, and drive ... he gets it done. After reviewing much of the Lardy content, it seems to be that consistency and brevity do work with a pup. Just an opinion from an observer.


I ain't messin with the FBI!!


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