# Chessie Pup Help!



## HoytHunt (Mar 7, 2014)

I married my husband 10 years ago and he came with a 4 yr old Labrador. She was phenomenal and introduced me to the world of dog obedience and hunt retrieving. 

She passed away in 2012 and it took us a while to recover, she was one in a million. 

We finally agreed that we were ready for a new retriever but both felt that we should avoid Labradors least we constantly compare them to our old Lab. We looked at several breeds and even had a deposit down on an American Water Spaniel litter before backing out. 

In September my husband told me about an upcoming litter of Chesapeake Bay Retrievers that were from a Master Hunt Stud and a Senior Hunt Bitch. We met the breeder and the bitch and eventually the pups and it all felt right. My husband is a Veterinarian and I am a Vet Tech so we both have experience working with all kinds of breeds on a daily basis but Chessie's were fairly new to us. 

We put down our deposit on a promising female who was very "birdy" and picked her up when she was 8 wks old.

We expected to confront some differences in this breed compared to a Lab, we expected more stubbornness, more independence, and possibly some aggressive tendencies. 

We weren't wrong.

She has exhibited every kind of dominance, she has tried to possess her food, her toys, her kennel, and most recently the water bowl. Each time we correct her behavior and the behavior subsides somewhat. All that doesn't bother us so much as her unwillingness to please does. She seems to only work for her own benefit. Retrieving is a game for her, she has no interest in bringing "her toy" back to you she just expects you to throw it when she wants to play. 

More specifically, when my husband works her on or off the lead he has her heal and sit and wait while he throws the dummy (we've tried several kinds of dummies, even real bird wings). She is great, waiting patiently for the release when she is told to "Fetch." She makes a straight line to it and snatches it up, then proceeds to run circles around my husband completely indifferent to the command "Here." which she obeys on other occasions. She won't bring the dummy back ever! She doesn't care if you're excited, angry, or whatever, she seems to want us to chase her or something. 

I need someone to tell me that she will grow out of this, it's just a puppy phase. I need reassurance that this Chessie's stubbornness isn't really selfishness. Do Chessie's have no desire to please, or engage with their owners? She seems to like us well enough otherwise. 

Currently, she is 50lbs and just turned 5 months old and our hope was turn her into a Field Trial competitor but at this point my husband is just worried about getting a decent duck hunting dog out of her.


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## ChessieMom (Aug 28, 2013)

HoytHunt said:


> She has exhibited every kind of dominance, she has tried to possess her food, her toys, her kennel, and most recently the water bowl. Each time we correct her behavior and the behavior subsides somewhat. All that doesn't bother us so much as her unwillingness to please does. She seems to only work for her own benefit. Retrieving is a game for her, she has no interest in bringing "her toy" back to you she just expects you to throw it when she wants to play.
> 
> More specifically, when my husband works her on or off the lead he has her heal and sit and wait while he throws the dummy (we've tried several kinds of dummies, even real bird wings). She is great, waiting patiently for the release when she is told to "Fetch." She makes a straight line to it and snatches it up, then proceeds to run circles around my husband completely indifferent to the command "Here." which she obeys on other occasions. She won't bring the dummy back ever! She doesn't care if you're excited, angry, or whatever, she seems to want us to chase her or something.
> 
> ...


 I'm not an expert, but I do have some experience with Chessies and am a proud owner of a male Chessie as well, so maybe some of my experience will help. 

Our male seemed to be very dominant as a pup in our household. He tested his boundaries alot. He was a nippy biter (which took alot of work to quell) and he would frequently try to assert himself and lay claim to many different things. It took ALOT of consistency for him to calm down and accept his position in the household. "Nothing in Life is Free" is a really helpful concept with Chessies, and it was definitely the way to go in our household. It worked wonders.

I mistakenly thought that his seemingly dominant behavior in our house meant that he was an uber-dominant dog with other dogs. Not so in our case, at his puppy obedience class, he proved to be pretty middle of the road. I really think that he was just testing boundaries with us, and needed to experience where he fit in and where his place was. He's great now at a little over 1 year. Hardly ever an issue now. 

As far as wanting your dog to "want to please" you, I haven't found that the Chessies I've owned have been super eager to please like a Lab might be. In my experience, a Chessie is a partner, who you work together with, a best friend, but I haven't experienced one whose sole goal is to please me. One of the beauties of having a chessie, is that they are super smart and think for themselves. Maybe there are Chessies that are super eager to please their master simply to please their master, but that's not what I've experienced.

If you want your chessie to do what you want her to do, first of all, I'd work on bonding more deeply with her. The tighter you are with her, the more she'll consider doing what you want even if she wants to do something else. 

As far as retrieving goes, use a check cord. Throw the dummy, and then enforce the "here" command with the check cord. Don't throw the dummy for her unless you can enforce the "here". She thinks she's playing a different game than you think you're playing. She thinks she's playing chase with you, which she loves. Try throwing just a few times, and make sure you end a session on a good note, where she brings the dummy back to you, even if you have to enforce it with the check cord. Make sure you give her lots of praise when she gets to you with the dummy, even if you had to tow her there.

She will grow out of alot of the puppy behavior. With proper training, she'll probably outgrow most of the dominance issues too, once she finds her place in the family. As far as personality goes though, she will probably never be uber-eager to do whatever you want just because you tell her to. Chessies are independent thinkers. As your bond with her gets stronger, she'll get to a point where she does want to do what you want her to though....most of the time  Chessie's are incredibly loyal and wonderful companions, but they do think for themselves. They're not going to be thinking "What do you want me to do for you next?", but you can look forward to "What are we going to do together next?"


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## Bruce MacPherson (Mar 7, 2005)

Chessie Nation is going to see this, marshall their troops and tell you everything is going to be just fine. I'll pray for you. Most dogs are in it for themselves to some degree it's up to us to train in the good and train out the bad. If you have no experience with chessies it might not hurt to engage a knowledgeable trainer to help you and your dog build a good foundation. I personally like the breed sometimes and sometimes I wonder why I have one. That goes with the territory with these dogs


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

I've had plenty of snotty CBR pups that acted just like yours and I personally think the better dogs are the ones that have a little "attitude". Five months is still very much a pup but formal obedience and force fetch will go a long way toward fixing all those problems. BTW I have known a few Lab pups that acted the same way, I wouldn't necessarily say it's a breed thing. She likes to retrieve, but they do that from instinct. They bring it back to you because of training.


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## mtncntrykid (May 31, 2011)

I wouldn't be throwing dummies for retrieve without a long lead rope on her so you can reel her back when she try's to take the dummy the other way. Every time you do she is being reinforced that she can get her way.


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## The Snows (Jul 19, 2004)

She is playing "Keep away" with the bumper. All puppies at some phase will do this. Until she is through CC any retrieving should be done with a check cord on so you can reinforce the command. 

As to Chessie attitude .... can't help you with that one .... only have labs with attitudes!


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

What's the breeding first. Next some dogs
Are motivated to please others have very high 
Prey drive . Be careful about advise you really
Don't know where the information comes from.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

HoytHunt said:


> I married my husband 10 years ago and he came with a 4 yr old Labrador. She was phenomenal and introduced me to the world of dog obedience and hunt retrieving.
> 
> She passed away in 2012 and it took us a while to recover, she was one in a million.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a very nice pup!!!! I would find a pro close by to possibly help you out with issues.If you want to pm me pedigree ,I may be willing to take this beast off your hands.Jim


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## Tim Carrion (Jan 5, 2003)

Dominance, possessive. works for herself... Yes you have a Chesapeake.

Retrieving is a game to her. It will up to you to impress upon that to play the game she must play by your rules. Chesapeakes do "engage" with their owners even more than Labs. They have a great desire to please those THEY deem worthy.

Tim


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## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

What others have said, especially from the Chessie experienced folk. Personally, if I wanted to continue with the retrieves before force fetch I would put her on a check cord and as soon as the adult teeth are in then FF that dog. I think formal OB would be on the list of good things to work on as well.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

You have received some excellent advice.I'm just going to add that the dog has an owner but needs a boss.Jim


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## HoytHunt (Mar 7, 2014)

Thank you all for your advice! Bruce, Tim, and ChessieMom, your words were somewhat reassuring that we are not doomed, that maybe this is kinda normal and to chill out 

Most of you mentioned having her on a check cord and WE DO! What's frustrating is as soon as she feels the tug on the cord she drops the dummy, game over. 
Also mentioned was bonding time and we do that to, she goes everywhere she can with us on errands and spent a week with us driving to Kansas and working on a farm. In fact, we worry that we've singled her out TOO much and maybe it's somehow given her the impression that she's in charge here. 

Force Fetching is going to be a new venture for us, we did not do this with our Lab and it could have arguably made her even more awesome than she already was. One concern with FF this pup, aside from the fact that she's not quite old enough yet, is how to accomplish the goal of working through pressure without ruining what little drive she has now. Perhaps it would be better to wait and figure out how to get her to work with us instead of her own gain before beginning FF? and how long do wait for that to happen?

I think handing her over to a trainer at this point would be what I would do, but pride might play into it with my better half. Like JULIE R. mentioned, she is still "very much a pup" and perhaps we should give it time and she will grow out of it. In the back of my mind though, I'm thinking our old lab "didn't do this" or "was so much easier". 

"Taking her off our hands" is not something we would ever consider. Regardless of how much we paid or how awesome her pedigree is, she is in her forever home. We may just have to start looking again if she doesn't shape up over the next 2 years. 

If anyone has experience with a well rounded, quality trainer in the DC/Maryland area please share it with me.

It's kind of a lonely road with Chessie's I guess. Labs are your buddy but this particular Chessie is in it purely for her own gain.


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## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

HoytHunt said:


> Thank you all for your advice! Bruce, Tim, and ChessieMom, your words were somewhat reassuring that we are not doomed, that maybe this is kinda normal and to chill out
> 
> Most of you mentioned having her on a check cord and WE DO! What's frustrating is as soon as she feels the tug on the cord she drops the dummy, game over.
> Also mentioned was bonding time and we do that to, she goes everywhere she can with us on errands and spent a week with us driving to Kansas and working on a farm. In fact, we worry that we've singled her out TOO much and maybe it's somehow given her the impression that she's in charge here.
> ...


At this point the check cord is more to teach here than the retrieve. If she brings the dummy back as well its a plus. Force fetch will take care of the retrieve part of it.


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## jd6400 (Feb 23, 2009)

HoytHunt said:


> Thank you all for your advice! Bruce, Tim, and ChessieMom, your words were somewhat reassuring that we are not doomed, that maybe this is kinda normal and to chill out
> 
> Most of you mentioned having her on a check cord and WE DO! What's frustrating is as soon as she feels the tug on the cord she drops the dummy, game over.
> Also mentioned was bonding time and we do that to, she goes everywhere she can with us on errands and spent a week with us driving to Kansas and working on a farm. In fact, we worry that we've singled her out TOO much and maybe it's somehow given her the impression that she's in charge here.
> ...


Turning her over to a pro is fruitless unless you are willing to be the leader or boss after said work has been completed.Just preparing you.And that's the case with all breeds Jim


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## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

For trainers you can reach out to Neal Selby at Shady Grove Kennel. Its about an hour south of DC.


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## HoytHunt (Mar 7, 2014)

new members cannot reply PM's apparently so I'll say here ..
Thanks Scott, it helps to read these words. My husband is the one with most of the experience, he trained 3 hunt retrievers before I met him and his own Lab was already trained as well. I played around with her throughout the years and felt a false sense of accomplishment as a result. I realize now that I never truly trained her to do anything, she either already knew it or was intelligent enough to figure out what I wanted regardless of how I was asking for it. My husband on the other hand is having his world rocked a bit with this pup. He is so attuned to Labs and how they think and though we both had experience hanging around Chessie's and talked with other Chessie owners, nothing really, honestly prepares you for owning/training I guess.

You are the second person to mention "Nothing in life is free" I am looking into it now and thinking this may be our saving grace. 

I didn't know about rentals through ACC but it sounds awesome and I'll mention to the other half. 

Again, thank you


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## Pat Puwal (Dec 22, 2004)

We've had Chesapeakes for well over 40 years. They are a great breed and all have different personalities. They don't fit in one size box. You have received some good advice here. I would suggest that you check out the Rappahannock River Retriever Club near Culpeper, VA. http://www.rrrclub.com/ This is where Neil Selby is located. They have some Chesapeake owners as members and have training days. Another good resource is the American Chesapeake Club http://www.amchessieclub.org/. I know that one training day is planned for June 21 in MD. Possibly we will have another in the summer in VA. Another good website to get help is http://www.teamchesapeake.com/. You are welcome to call me. I am on the American Chesapeake Club website under Regional Directors. Best of luck!


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

I have only been exposed to other peoples Chessies, and so this advice is based on what i would do with a lab pup that is a "handful" and plenty of them are...Stop with the retrieves. Establish control through two or 3 a day 5-10 minute formal OB sessions, and begin cc in conjunction. Establish some solid pressure conditioning now- going into ff after she gets her teeth. By doing CC and getting some good pressure conditioning in completely absent retrieving activities you can put your mind a ease about harming her drive- I do not know if that is a legit concern or not with your pup, but teaching her to handle pressure now will build your confidence as well as hers regarding ff. 

Also- you mentioned that your husband came with a 4 to lab, not a pup- I doubt he remembers how frustrating she was at times as a pup... I'm just saying... Cut yourself and that pup some slack and keep reasonable goals. Don't dwell on that distant possible FT campaign and take this time to really learn how to raise a pup well.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

I didn't see where you were located but if you're in the DC/N.VA area, my farm is less than an hour from the DC beltway in Fauquier County; you're welcome to call or email (since you can't send a PM til you have 10 posts). I've had CBRs since 1981 and if I can't answer your questions I can always point you to someone who can. One thing is, your pup may be bored with doing short little retrieves in a yard and at this point, it's not furthering anything but her decision that the recall command is optional. I've found with some of the little delinquents, taking them someplace new and unfamiliar will clean up that keep away game, as will water retrieves. (I know....there isn't any water right now til the ice melts!) I have a 30 ac. farm with 3 ponds and also usually do a Chesapeake field day here but due to this winter's weather we haven't scheduled this year's yet.
My contact info. is (540) 364-9480 or hopespringsfarmATgmail.com


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

You have some good resources available to you in MD, chessie people who know the breed well. Julie, Mike, and Tim are knowledgeable and experienced. I hope you will be able to take advantage of the opportunity to visit Julie's farm, wish I could!!! 

We have 3 chessies: 2 are biddable and good natured, 1 is dominant, guards everything, and when young was possessive of food bowls, and bones. Turns out that once the dominant behavior was controlled via NILF, she was the easiest to train, had the most natural ability, and works harder for me than either of the other two. (Edited to add, one of the biddable ones is just 7 months old herself, so we're still waiting to see what we've got with her in terms of performance, LOL.) We just had to figure out what worked with the dominant one and she bloomed.


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## Dave Flint (Jan 13, 2009)

Every 5 -6 month old pup I’ve owned has been a PITA. They’re teenagers. They think they’re independent & they haven’t been taught any responsibility yet. They can however tell if you don’t like them so don’t let your pre-conceived notions about the Chesapeake temperament affect your future relationship.

Dogs “bond” with their masters because they accept them as their leader, protector, & the bringer of good things. They lose respect when you give them treats or praise they haven’t earned. At this stage, you should be mostly concerned about avoiding bad behavior. That’s what the long line is for. 

Since she drops the dummy when you pull her in, try throwing a clip wing pigeon. In many cases, the introduction to birds has made a noticeable difference in how the pup sees me. It’s like a switch goes off & they view you with a whole different attitude.


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Rick and Patty Roberts are high level pros
There is also Ed Fory. Field trial end of March in
Trapp Maryland. Take a peak might see Tim there
Running Tanner a done or two more chessies


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## dlsweep (Dec 3, 2007)

Lots of good advice here. Especially jd6400.

You need to own the pups actions, and stop thinking in stereotypes. Train the dog in front of you.

Best of luck.


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## ArtC (Feb 8, 2009)

Just a duck hunter and only on my 4th Chessie (3rd pup) so no expert. But they learn fast and unlearn slow. Especially when you teach them the wrong thing. Work on Obedience, especially "come". Get "come" solid before you try and work on real retrieving. In the meantime, if you want to throw stuff for the puppy for exercise, make it a ball or toy, not a bumper, wing or other training object. Praise her if she brings it back. If she doesn't, cajole her, run the other way and try and get her to chase you, but don't chase her. But until "come" is solid, don't use the word unless you can enforce it. And the ones I've had seem to do better when you don't nag. (come! once and make them do it, not "come!...come!....c'mere....comecome.....) Not saying that's what you're doing, but just in case

Also doesn't sound like a drive problem, more of a focus/direction problem. Probably want to Teach "fetch" and "hold" before doing formal force fetch, and if you're at all unsure finding someone who's successfully forced Chessies before is probably a real good idea.

They really do want to please once they're sure they know what you want.
Art


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

HoytHunt said:


> It's kind of a lonely road with Chessie's I guess. Labs are your buddy but this particular Chessie is in it purely for her own gain.


I know it looks this way to you now, but your Chesapeake has the potential to bond with you in a way that will probably surpass anything you and your husband have known.

I strongly encourage you to get in-person help from Julie, Tim, or one of the other good people in your area. There is a knack to bringing out the best in a Chesapeake. While we talk about the need for them to "respect" you, it is not simply a matter of obedience training or (god forbid) "dominance" exercises. NILIF is probably the most helpful of the protocols you might apply on your own.

My experience, as a pro who owns, campaigns, and breeds Chesapeakes and also gets a lot of them in training, is that it is very common for youngsters to seem independent, unwilling to the point of defiance, and sometimes so creative in coming up with activities that get a reaction that their owners describe them as "demonic." Sometimes owners come to me after being told by trainers who don't know the breed that their dog is an untrainable pathological problem. The right kind of training wakes up a desire to cooperate and work as a team. In my experience, contrary to Jim's, once the dog has really enjoyed teamwork with one person (me, the trainer), it readily transfers its willingness to cooperate to the owner. Often the dog seems to be bursting with eagerness to share with the owner the new things it has learned. I do, of course, spend time coaching owners but do not have to ask them to make huge changes in how they do things, usually just a few key tips.

The "uncooperative," "unwilling," "stubborn," "independent," "dominant" behavior does NOT indicate a dog that is intentionally trying to be difficult. It is one possible default for an intelligent, curious, driven youngster with a curious mix of seriousness and humor and a love for games. Once you show yours how rewarding teamwork can be, she will radiate her joy in working with you in a way you will tangibly feel.

So please, don't give up, and don't fall into the trap of developing a negative view and expectations of your pup. Please do get the kind of help that will turn her around from one of the experienced Chesapeake people in your area.

Amy Dahl


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## riskyriver (Feb 23, 2010)

What Amy said! I have raised MANY Chessie pups - some were easy and some not. My most recent was a REAL brat from a very young age and there was a long period of time where she and I did not like each other much (or so it seemed). She did not start to really come around until after all her basics done at 1 1/2 or so - she has now developed into quite a nice dog and I enjoy working with her and she with me. Each and every pup is different and this does not apply just to Chessies - there are Lab and Golden brats too. So, get some good assistance, do what needs to be done and hang in there!
Diane


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## HoytHunt (Mar 7, 2014)

I studied up on NILF and worked with her all day while I was home and when I couldn't watch her I kenneled her. By the time my husband got back from work and took her out to retriever her I felt I could already see some progress. He commented that she was better tonight when he returned from working her outside! 

I've gotten quite a bit of good info. and feel much better about our little girl.


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## Pam Spears (Feb 25, 2010)

Glad to hear you're seeing progress. Keep it up indefinitely and you won't believe the difference it makes. I forgot to mention in my earlier post that my "difficult" girl, for most of her first year, was independent and aloof. She didn't want to snuggle and cuddle, didn't like to be held, and in fact didn't seem to like us all that much. She is now "my" dog in a way that I've never experienced a dog before. It's amazing, and really wonderful.

If you get a chance, you might seek out the book "The Ten Minute Retriever." Written by Amy Dahl (post above) and her husband, it's a great introduction to chessie training and the chessie mentality. The anecdotal stories in there will give you a chuckle and help put your own relationship with your pup in perspective.


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## WhiteDog70810 (Oct 24, 2013)

Hello all,


I'm the other half.


The pup is in a very precocious stage right now, but she'll be a great dog. I can still see that even when frustrated. I like a stubborn dog because they just keep going when it gets tough, but they'll give you ulcers until they start to come together. I had hoped to have her loving a simple, uncomplicated game of fetch before I started FF. I hate to rely on negative reinforcement, to include this dang check cord, just to get her to bring a bumper to hand this early, but I acknowledge that CC & FF are probably the quickest way to address my current issue and she has the drive and the teeth (earlier than expected), so I'll jump into that very soon. Some of my hesitation is due to kicking myself because I screwed up. Her obedience was great and she was retrieving an old glove like a champ and was transitioning to dummies reasonably quickly... 


...and then I introduced wings too early. Once she discovered "tasty morsels" on her dummies, the game changed from "fetch" to "get it and keep it". I d/c'd the wings, but now I have to get her past the "come get me" phase I created (no, I didn't/don't chase the pup). Her basic obedience is still great until she has a dummy in her mouth. She is coming around quickly with the check cord, but Katy hears me mutter, fuss and cuss a good bit because this pup doesn't work for praise, treats or the next retrieve and I am pissed I have to resort to a check cord at all. The pup will come around; it'll just take longer than I am used to. My old girl spoiled me rotten because she learned so incredibly quickly and easily, but I muttered and cussed from time to time while training her and also the one before that and even more the one before that. It is part of my learning process. I got a Chessie to learn something difference and I am getting my money's worth.


I'll be playing the hunter retriever games in the Maryland/Virginia area (I don't have the attention span for field trialling). I look forward to seeing you all around.


Nate


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Remember stubborn could be confused for not
Understanding what you want. Chessies are not
The fastest learners they really need to understand


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## twall (Jun 5, 2006)

It sounds like you are already making progress, realizing you have a different dog is the biggest step.

Force fetch and the e collar are just tools. When used properly they make for better trained dogs and happier trainers. Many ascribe an age requirement for deciding when a dog is ready for FF. My wife and I have found that doing based on a dogs development/behavior works much better. When a dog starts to make decisions about whether or not in needs to obey a command is the right time to start FF. Force fetch is not about retrieving. It is the first step in teaching a dog that obeying a command, inspite of 'pressure', is the only option. I have done FF on dogs prior to them getting their adult teeth. I have found to it to be easier and usually faster with a younger dog. 

Since you want to train your own dog I would encourage you to find someone to help you do FF with your own dog. One very important benefit is seeing how your dog responds to the pressure/ear pinch. You are likely to see similar behavior later on in training.

The easiest problem to fix is the oe you don't create/allow to develop.

Have fun with your dog,

Tom


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

moscowitz said:


> Remember stubborn could be confused for not
> Understanding what you want. Chessies are not
> The fastest learners they really need to understand


On the contrary, many Chesapeakes are extremely fast learners--at pressing the owners' buttons. I've had more than a few who acted just like the OP's pup at that same age. It's awesome to have one that "gets it" about returning from an early age; you can show it off and have it doing big dog marks before it's even force fetched or cc'd but, I would say it's not the norm. That pup sounds like she likes retrieving, and she also sounds like she's ready for formal obedience. The good ones all seem to have a little "bad" in them.


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## WhiteDog70810 (Oct 24, 2013)

I understand. If it took days for my last dog to grasp a concept, it takes this pup a week or more, but once she gets it, she retains it better than than my last dog. However, she is also stubborn and pushy, albeit also surprisingly sensitive once corrected, which is a tough line for me to walk.

Up to this point, I've honestly only trained really good meat dogs. With this pup, I am trying to spend more time on the fundamentals so I get a more polished product in the end. However, my previous dogs were so quick to chain together behaviors that I realized I am actually having to force myself to truly focus on each fundamental baby step separately for the first time. It is good for me. For example, I taught Here-Heel-Sit almost as a single concept to my last dog when she was 12-14 weeks old and she had it figured out incredibly quickly. With this pup, I have to teach each step separately, slowly and repeated ad naseum (what I've been doing for the last 3 months), then connect them (what I am doing now). Fortunately, the connecting the baby steps is going faster than training them.

My reading suggests that my hesitation to use the check cord to reinforce "here" while retrieving fun bumpers is unfounded. Many feel that is just part of the process and never turn a pup completely loose until they have a E-collar on them. I guess I've simply never felt I needed it before now, so I subconsciously figured I never would.

Nate


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## WhiteDog70810 (Oct 24, 2013)

Julie R. said:


> On the contrary, many Chesapeakes are extremely fast learners--at pressing the owners' buttons. I've had more than a few who acted just like the OP's pup at that same age. It's awesome to have one that "gets it" about returning from an early age; you can show it off and have it doing big dog marks before it's even force fetched or cc'd but, I would say it's not the norm. That pup sounds like she likes retrieving, and she also sounds like she's ready for formal obedience. The good ones all seem to have a little "bad" in them.


Amen to your every point. 

Nate


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## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

Nate - The purpose of that check cord is so you can enforce the here command and stop her running around and playing the keep away stuff with you when you give the here command. It's not to force her to retrieve, and I suspect she is most likely dropping the dummy as soon as you start reeling her in on that check cord which is fine. If she holds on to the bumper and brings it back too when you command here while reeling her in that is a bonus. Force Fetch training will take care of the fetch and hold part. Good luck with your pup, and have fun.


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## WhiteDog70810 (Oct 24, 2013)

I also want to thank you all. I got sick of the self-righteous bickering on the dog training section over on another popular forum that I used to frequent, so I have been staying away from all dog training forums as a result. I appreciate how gracious you all are being.

Nate


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Nate, the typical Chesapeake learning process is a bit different from the typical Lab. Chesapeakes are aware of and are critics of the learning process. While adding an exercise or command to their repertoire, they need to test to get answers to some questions. What does he expect? Do I really need to do this? Do I have to do it the same in this situation? Do I have to do it when the sun is shining? Do I have to do it when he's six feet away? *Is there any conflict with any of the other commands I've learned?* Once they've cycled through all of the tests, they commit the action to memory and that's that.

I see "pushy" as being an active participant in the learning process. "What happens if I do this?" Chesapeakes want to have some initiative. This can be tricky when it comes to force procedures. Some times you gain a lot by backing off on the force and giving her an opportunity to just do it. If she goes along making progress and suddenly one day she digs in and refuses, she may be telling you, "I've got it. You don't need to force me any more."

I think "stubborn" is a mischaracterization. Chesapeakes are more obsessive. They learn to do something one way and that's the way they will always do it. That's great when you've taught them to do it the way you want. If it's unwanted behavior, IMO it's best to respect that it isn't easy to change a habit. Set things up so they are influenced and rewarded for doing it the new way, and be patient. 

As you have noticed, it's typical for Chesapeakes to be sensitive to pressure. Being consistent and persistent will help you, as will making sure your pup really understands the desired behavior before applying pressure. Escalating pressure is likely to end badly.

Earning a Chesapeake's respect is not just about being consistent, fair, and in charge. It's partly a matter of learning to respect the dog's initiative and point of view.

It's great that you embrace what makes this dog different. Have fun.

Amy Dahl


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## Sharon Potter (Feb 29, 2004)

Amy pretty much nailed it.


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## afdahl (Jul 5, 2004)

Thanks Sharon  I forgot to say, praise will become very important, even though you feel it isn't now. For most Chesapeakes, having their effort acknowledged is BIG motivation.

Amy Dahl


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

part 2 sounds reasonable, but teaching a dog all kinds of avoidance as a way of relating is way to unpredictable for my taste. it doesn't sound like you moved on to CC, or FF - did you? I think teaching a dog to handle "pressure" the way you did would be extremely counterproductive almost unfair later on. So yes, it definitely sounds risky, in regards to outcome, and it sounds like the dog you had to deal with wasn't one with any real high expectations put on it, so with the low set of standards applied at home, I'm sure the family was happy with the results. Would you do that to a dog of your own who you expected to perform in FT or high level HT? what about for a dog that might swim 2-2.5 miles in a day in 45-50 degree water, chasing cripples and bringing in 20-30 sea ducks?








I think the post I was replying to is gone? something about dominance and ceasr milan..


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## moscowitz (Nov 17, 2004)

Avoidance is the trainers made problem. When they are puppies build confidence. With confidence puppies handle pressure much better. One has to set up training sessions that you control both success and failure. Controlled failures and be ready to help dog solve the problem. Timing. Just my opinion have never produced a FC. But continue to dream. Timing can be the difference between what you may think is stubborn or avoidance.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

Good point ^^^ by Moscowitz, although at this age sometimes it can be hard to find something praise worthy  
Since you're local you should check out your closest retriever club, Rappahannock River Retriever Club. We have monthly training sessions, but since we're having an AKC hunt test in April, the next training day isn't til May but, you're welcome to come watch at the HT (heck we'll put you to work if you want, too!). We have a lot of Chesapeakes in our club, so you'll feel right at home, in fact, there's even a little delinquent that I bred, the same age as your pup. If you go look at the club's facebook page, you can see him in his full glory in the "Good puppy/bad puppy" photo album. He was doing such a good job til he got the idea to stop, drop and roll on his duck! (Gotta love puppies). Photo below is the good puppy, you can see the rest on the club's Facebook page. BTW this pup's owner and several others meet to train regularly, sometimes at my farm, sometimes at other nearby spots; Peake people always welcome!


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## jhnnythndr (Aug 11, 2011)

moscowitz said:


> Avoidance is the trainers made problem. When they are puppies build confidence. With confidence puppies handle pressure much better. One has to set up training sessions that you control both success and failure. Controlled failures and be ready to help dog solve the problem. Timing. Just my opinion have never produced a FC. But continue to dream. Timing can be the difference between what you may think is stubborn or avoidance.



I was replying to a post that was deleted, referencing rolling the dog on its back, and straddling it while growing and massaging your hands around its throat... as well as a couple other strategies for demonstrating dominance that seemed likely to be confusing down the road, to say the least... and none of which were esigned to build any confidence...


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## freezeland (Nov 1, 2012)

Julie R. said:


> Good point ^^^ by Moscowitz, although at this age sometimes it can be hard to find something praise worthy
> Since you're local you should check out your closest retriever club, Rappahannock River Retriever Club. We have monthly training sessions, but since we're having an AKC hunt test in April, the next training day isn't til May but, you're welcome to come watch at the HT (heck we'll put you to work if you want, too!). We have a lot of Chesapeakes in our club, so you'll feel right at home, in fact, there's even a little delinquent that I bred, the same age as your pup. If you go look at the club's facebook page, you can see him in his full glory in the "Good puppy/bad puppy" photo album. He was doing such a good job til he got the idea to stop, drop and roll on his duck! (Gotta love puppies). Photo below is the good puppy, you can see the rest on the club's Facebook page. BTW this pup's owner and several others meet to train regularly, sometimes at my farm, sometimes at other nearby spots; Peake people always welcome!


Julie - Your PM inbox is full. How do you get to our clubs facebook page? There is no links on the club website that I can see. I do not have facebook so have no clue how to use it.


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## Julie R. (Jan 13, 2003)

freezeland said:


> Julie - Your PM inbox is full. How do you get to our clubs facebook page? There is no links on the club website that I can see. I do not have facebook so have no clue how to use it.


Both the club's and my own Hope Springs Farm pages are public, though you may still need to join Facebook in order to see them. When I set up the club page originally, I wasn't a member but had to join to do it; but back then I think on public pages, anyone could see them. Not sure if that's still true though. Try these links (click on name) to see if they work for you, and if you need to reach me, best way is email HopeSpringsFarmATgmail.com

Rappahannock River Retriever Club facebook page



Hope Springs Farm facebook page


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## WhiteDog70810 (Oct 24, 2013)

You have the training day out in Winchester on the first Saturday of most months outside of duck season, correct? We attended a training day early last summer when I had no dog just to get a feel for the group. You fed me and were very nice, so I like you. I was planning on joining up and hitting your training weekends once I have something I can take in public. May will be about right I hadn't really checked out the web page for the schedule yet because a lot of training groups have not started training yet due to weather. 

Nate


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## WhiteDog70810 (Oct 24, 2013)

Oops, Remington, not Winchester. Thank goodness there isn't a Browning, Va nearby. I'd never keep them all straight.

Nate


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